82: Baby Pro

0:00:00[Music]

0:00:15Welcome to Upgrade from Relay FM. This is episode number 82. Upgrade was brought to you by the good people at

0:00:22Smile for PDF Pen Pro, IT Pro TV, and Mail Route.

0:00:28I am Jason Snell. Myke Hurley is on assignment, and instead of Myke being here, I am joined

0:00:35by my very special guest star, Serenity Caldwell. Hello!

0:00:40Hello! Thank you for having me on your 82nd episode, Jason.

0:00:44Welcome to Upgrade. We don't have—we do not have very many guests. It's usually just

0:00:47me and Myke.

0:00:48I know I feel very very honored.

0:00:52This is my second time. You've been enshrined in the Pantheon.

0:00:54You're one of our special, I guess it's

0:00:57we brought you one a second time for that

0:01:00follow-up so this is like your third time on. You may be the leading guest now

0:01:05for all I know. Oh my gosh. It's possible. I have been upgraded. But you're yes, yes.

0:01:09But Myke's off

0:01:13on assignment that is broadcasting, podcasting code

0:01:16for being on vacation. But we like to just pretend that he's often like the mountains of some far-off region

0:01:24reporting back for a story that he'll be doing.

0:01:26He's gone off into the mystical wilderness in search of the perfect pen.

0:01:31No, I think he's just like sitting on a couch drawing doodles.

0:01:35But, you know, it's fine. We will soldier on without Myke.

0:01:42So we got a lot to cover.

0:01:45last week was the last week was the car cast where I did the entire podcast from

0:01:51my car

0:01:52that's right I listen to some of that not entire podcast I guess because because

0:01:56I got home and so I switched to my proper mic setup at the at the very end

0:02:02of that but I the I would say in terms of follow-up there was a lot of

0:02:06positive reaction to that people seem to like it I was concerned and Myke was

0:02:10concerned that it was not going to be audible, but it sounded okay. Obviously, we wouldn't

0:02:16do every episode from a car. That would be a different podcast that we would not want

0:02:21to do. And I was surprised. I only heard from a couple of people who believe that nobody

0:02:26should ever talk on the phone while they're driving a car. And to those people, I say,

0:02:29"I salute you. I'm a pretty safe driver. I've never gotten in an accident. I was not driving

0:02:35as fast, nor was I in the left-hand lane while we were doing the podcast. And when it started

0:02:41to rain, I slowed down and went even further over to the right to just sort of keep it

0:02:46real. And then it poured and all the traffic stopped. And yeah, it was an experience, but

0:02:53it was no different really than all the thoughts that are pinging around in my head when I'm

0:02:57usually driving that stretch from Cupertino back up to Marin County, which I just did.

0:03:03I did that. I was back at Apple again today. So there's some follow up is that I was down

0:03:10there today and I was doing some briefings and picking up an iPad Pro 9.7 inch and an

0:03:19iPhone SE. So I get to play with those now, which is fun.

0:03:22So shiny. Rose gold, Jason?

0:03:26I think it's just gold. I think it's plain old gold, which is fine because I can't see

0:03:29color very well right so I can light cast of red in the gold

0:03:35it's kind of lost on me like rose gold would be it I would be a bad person to

0:03:39receive rose gold things. You were not at the Apple event last week but you

0:03:46were nearby so did you get a chance to play with the new stuff

0:03:50afterwards? I was in the periphery no I did not get a chance to play with it and it made me

0:03:54I'm getting my yeah, I'm getting I'm getting an iPad

0:03:579.7 on Thursday at which point yeah

0:04:01I'm going to do a huge artists review for I'm or good on

0:04:069.7 versus 12.9 and also just is the 9.7 a good tool for artists, but I you know Renee Richie, of course

0:04:15Editor-in-chief of I'm where he got a chance to play with it a lot and he really likes it

0:04:19I think that there is based on what I saw at the event

0:04:24event and based off of what I've been reading since I feel like there's a lot

0:04:28for people who either have been on the fence about buying the big iPad Pro or

0:04:33just have never bought an iPad before I think there's a lot for them to like in

0:04:38this new in this new tablet that Apple has created. Yeah there's I mean it's

0:04:42also the you know it's the classic size right? It is. It's what we think of as an

0:04:48Yep. You know, if Apple had come out with this iPad in 2010, I think my head would have

0:04:55exploded. Just completely exploded. Because in 2010, this is what I wanted from the iPad.

0:05:00This is what I dreamed of being like, "Yes, it's a tablet that I can draw on that's from

0:05:06Apple that runs iOS apps." And of course, I got the original iPad and I still loved

0:05:11it very much even though the drawing was not nearly what I wanted from it. But now that

0:05:18tests. That is available to people. That is available to every 16-year-old kid that can

0:05:23save enough babysitting money or plead with their parents to get a $600 tablet. That's

0:05:29cheaper than the Wacom tablet that I bought when I was 14, which is kind of crazy.

0:05:33Yeah, it's quite a thing. So let's dive into the iPad Pro a little bit. So neither

0:05:42of us has spent an extended amount of time with it. I have spent a small amount of time

0:05:45with it at both at Apple and having taken possession of it now. A lot of people had

0:05:53drawing related questions though because obviously, so we should say it's like the moment that

0:05:58every Apple related writer waits for which is for Phil Schiller to tweet out a link to

0:06:03your story which you got for your excellent drawn review of the Apple Pencil on iMore

0:06:09which is a great idea by the way. That is a perfect idea. How do you do a story like

0:06:14that a little bit differently and you did it and Phil Schiller tweeted it out which

0:06:18was pretty awesome.

0:06:19I still don't believe that that actually happened.

0:06:21Yeah, he has people.

0:06:22I'm sure it was just his people.

0:06:24Oh, I'm sure.

0:06:25I'm sure.

0:06:26It wasn't, yeah, it wasn't a really...

0:06:28No, I don't know.

0:06:29I am literally speechless.

0:06:31I have no words.

0:06:32I just end up with babbles about, you know, when that happened I just kind of stared at

0:06:38my Twitter account and just went, "Really?

0:06:42No, that's a fake account, right?

0:06:45Yeah, fake Phil Schiller.

0:06:46Yeah.

0:06:46Shirley.

0:06:48That's a parody account.

0:06:49Like the Johnny I. Parody.

0:06:50It's unsure.

0:06:51Yeah, exactly.

0:06:51Exactly.

0:06:52It's not real.

0:06:53Or Hair Force One.

0:06:54It's not real.

0:06:56But I'm really glad that that resonated with so many people.

0:07:00And what was really exciting about that review

0:07:03was not just--

0:07:05drawing it was a lot of fun.

0:07:06And I ended up--

0:07:07that was something that I'd had in the back of my head

0:07:09for about two, three months, and then

0:07:11actually putting it to digital paper, as you will,

0:07:15only happened a couple weeks--

0:07:17right before we actually launched the review,

0:07:19where I thought, you know what?

0:07:21The new iPad is supposed to be coming out soon.

0:07:23And now that pencil can actually be purchased by people--

0:07:26you know, when it first came out,

0:07:28we had to ship Myke a pencil overseas because he

0:07:31couldn't get it in the UK.

0:07:34Now people can actually buy the pencil.

0:07:35This is probably the perfect time for people

0:07:38to kind of take a second look who were maybe on the fence.

0:07:41And it just, it did better than my wildest dreams, honestly.

0:07:45- It goes to show you too, I mean, we so often rush for--

0:07:49- First! - Rush to be the first post.

0:07:53I mean, yeah, if you strip it all away,

0:07:55that's absolutely it.

0:07:56And it's funny, people may not know,

0:07:58some people may have noticed that Apple did something

0:08:00a little bit different with the event last Monday,

0:08:02which is they still had a group of people who got a product

0:08:04on the day of the event.

0:08:06That happens, sometimes I'm in that list,

0:08:08sometimes I'm not in that list. I wasn't this time. But it used to be, when you were in

0:08:13that list, you got it and you signed an embargo. And they said, "Okay, a week from now on Monday,

0:08:18you can write about it." So post at 5 p.m. Pacific on Monday and not before that. So

0:08:24you have a week to write about it, think about it, and write about it and all of that. And

0:08:28what they did this time is they just gave it to people and said, "Here you go. There's

0:08:31no embargo." And I mean, I had that happen to me a couple of times. The original iPad

0:08:35sort of worked like that with me where I got it before it came out after the first reviews

0:08:38had dropped and there was no embargo. And no embargo, if you're a journalist, is in

0:08:43some ways the worst because you end up in that rush where you start to think, "Well,

0:08:47I should just start writing words now. I'll just write my review now. I haven't used the

0:08:50product yet, but there's no embargo, so I should just start writing now." And there's

0:08:55a long way of saying that it goes to show you that sometimes taking the time and thinking

0:08:59about it. Like you took a lot of time and spent a lot of time with the Apple Pencil,

0:09:04And then you posted that story and it got great response because it was even after all

0:09:08of those like several months since the product came out, your perspective was unique and

0:09:14interesting and the fact that time had passed didn't change that at all.

0:09:17No, and you know, I think it as you said, I think it actually augmented it because at

0:09:22that point I had basically been drawing on the iPad Pro and writing on the iPad Pro every

0:09:27day, give or take a couple of days since November. And I have a huge backlog of sketches and

0:09:34paper. And it was from that that I was actually able, you know, I did the entire the entire

0:09:39review was not only done with the pencil, but it was done in paper and I put it together

0:09:43in in paper and and pixelmator and then uploaded it using a workflow script. So it was all

0:09:50done and processed and built on the iPad Pro and I wouldn't have been able to trust myself

0:09:56to lay it out on the iPad. I would have maybe like drawn sketches in November and then I

0:10:00would have thrown it to my Mac and like done Photoshop to put it into panels. But because

0:10:05I had been working for so many months at that time, you know, three or four just solely

0:10:10on the iPad Pro, I felt comfortable enough to say, "Okay, you know what, I'm going to

0:10:14do this, you know, long form comic style and I'm going to look at, you know, I had a couple

0:10:19of comics kind of as reference points of like, how do you do this when you want to do kind

0:10:23of like a pseudo infographic. And how do you position things? Because paper doesn't really

0:10:27allow you to move things from, from canvas to canvas, you have some limited tools, but

0:10:33you can't really be like, Oh, yeah, I didn't put this in the right position. So I'm just

0:10:37going to highlight it and move it. It doesn't, it doesn't quite work as well as you might

0:10:41otherwise want it to. So I'm really grateful that I that I took the time I was going to

0:10:45do it like two weeks after release. And then I got sick. And I'm glad that me getting sick

0:10:50forced me to actually take some time and like focus on the way to use it. But yeah, but

0:10:55now so many more people are going to get to use the pencil.

0:10:57Well, this is one of the things I think is really also interesting is that your timing

0:11:00ended up being great because it came right in advance of this. And if we think back to

0:11:05that shortage, like you said of us, like, you know, you bought a pencil and send it

0:11:09to Myke because Myke couldn't get a pencil. And so many people were frustrated by it.

0:11:14And I have to wonder if this was maybe even apples, even apples sort of anticipated this,

0:11:19which is we gotta get the pencil up to speed. We're not gonna be able to make

0:11:24enough of them right out of the gate, but the iPad Pro 12.9-inch is also not

0:11:29gonna be the highest volume product in the iPad line at all. So whether it was

0:11:35planned or not, the bottom line is they got to ship the pencil and get supplies

0:11:42filling in in retail for a few months before they launched this 9.7-inch

0:11:49iPad Pro, which I would think is going to sell way more Apple pencils than the 12.9

0:11:54inch iPad Pro was ever going to sell because it is cheaper and it is the understandable

0:12:00size, the size we all expect for an iPad. And so it's really good timing, not just for

0:12:04your review but for the fact that they seem to now be able to make Apple pencils fast

0:12:09enough to meet this new demand because I think it's going to be huge demand for that pencil

0:12:13from now on.

0:12:14I would be really shocked if we didn't

0:12:16see the pencil go into shortage again after the iPad gets

0:12:19the release.

0:12:20I hope they've just been stocking them.

0:12:21More pencils.

0:12:22More pencils.

0:12:24We need to stock.

0:12:25Yeah, sadly, I didn't go--

0:12:26I should have planned in anticipation

0:12:28and just bought a bunch of pencils.

0:12:30But no, I think this is going to be huge for people

0:12:34who have been interested in trying out the Apple Pencil.

0:12:37It's funny because every time I take my iPad out--

0:12:40I was traveling, of course, for the Apple event.

0:12:42And before that, we both were at the Yosemite conference,

0:12:45and I had to fly out for there.

0:12:46Every time I've been in the airport,

0:12:48I usually doodle while waiting for flights,

0:12:50just because it's a nice de-stressing opportunity.

0:12:54And every single time, people lean over and be like,

0:12:56what tablet is that?

0:12:58What stylus is that?

0:12:59And I'm like, it's an iPad.

0:13:00It's a pencil.

0:13:01And they're like, is that that?

0:13:02I didn't realize it was so good.

0:13:04It really-- the thing about the pencil that really,

0:13:08to this four months later sticks with me is you can't really anticipate or believe how

0:13:16good it is until you see it in person because I feel like we have been trained for years

0:13:22to assume that, you know, when someone says they have the best digital stylist yet, which

0:13:26I'm using air quotes on this podcast, which I think is hilarious.

0:13:29Yeah, podcast air quotes.

0:13:31Yeah, podcast air quotes.

0:13:32When somebody says that, you roll your eyes a little bit and go like, "Okay, but yeah,

0:13:37I've tried a bunch of styluses and they're good,

0:13:40but nothing really replicates the sense of a normal pen.

0:13:43Like you get to a certain, if you're on like a one to 10 scale,

0:13:46you get to about 7.5 with 98% of the high end stylist market.

0:13:53Even the Surface Pro, you know,

0:13:55I did a lot of sketching with the Surface Pro 3 when it first came out being

0:14:00like,

0:14:00maybe I should get a Surface because I really want a portable sketchbook.

0:14:04And even the Surface Pro is just not--

0:14:08the N-Trig series doesn't feel natural.

0:14:13And the pencil, in contrast, is one

0:14:15of those crazy wacky things where, especially

0:14:18when you pair it with something like either notes or paper,

0:14:21because those software tools are so good,

0:14:25using the pencil feels almost seamless.

0:14:27Like, no, it doesn't feel like paper.

0:14:29We've talked about this a little bit.

0:14:31It doesn't feel like paper on glass.

0:14:32And they're not going to be able to do that until they figure out some magic wizardry with haptics.

0:14:37But the actual quality of your line work and the quality of your handwriting, I don't know if you've found this, but for me, it's very, very similar to how I draw on paper.

0:14:48Oh, yeah. Yeah, my handwriting is just as exactly as terrible as it is in real life.

0:14:54But it is exact. Like, I did a thing where I took some notes on a virtual sheet of paper using, I think, OneNote, or maybe it was just the Notes app.

0:15:03And I looked at it later and I was like, "Yep, that is it. That's what a notebook in my college binder would have been like, just as incomprehensible, but no different."

0:15:15And the experience of writing was no different.

0:15:17It feels very natural, which is totally what Apple is going for with that product.

0:15:23Oh yeah, I mean, it got a lot of flack in the early days about being, "Oh, the pencil is too long!"

0:15:30Or, "Why doesn't the pencil have an eraser?" Or, "The pencil have buttons!"

0:15:34And as somebody, you know, I've drawn with Wacom tablets, I've drawn with the Surface Pro pens, and N-Trig pens,

0:15:40and too many iPad styluses to count.

0:15:43Oh yeah.

0:15:44All of them, especially the ones with buttons,

0:15:47just feel terrible in your hand after about an hour.

0:15:49You get cramps.

0:15:51You'll pinch your skin on buttons.

0:15:53It's not a comfortable drawing experience.

0:15:55And the pencil, would I love an undo button?

0:15:58Sure.

0:15:59Would it be nice to have an eraser on the end of my pencil?

0:16:04Yeah, it might be nice.

0:16:05But overall, I think they made the perfect design

0:16:07compromises on that thing.

0:16:10It feels so good in your hand, and it feels so good

0:16:12to draw and write with that I like I am really hoping that they boost this up even further

0:16:19when they start selling the the baby pro as I've been calling it internally at I'm more

0:16:24I really hope they almost do like Apple store demos where they really like encourage they

0:16:28put out more pencils I think they had one or two in the Apple store near my house but

0:16:32I really hope they just put pencils all over the table for people to draw with it could

0:16:36be like at the bank they can just have that little metal chain that comes out oh my gosh

0:16:41the 21st century metal chain.

0:16:44Okay well we've got a lot more to talk about the iPad Pro but I want to take

0:16:48our first sponsor break and let people know about

0:16:51this is the part where Myke would come in and explain things but he's not here so

0:16:54it's gonna be me telling you that this episode of Upgrade is brought to you by

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0:18:18PDFs make the world go round. I do this all the time. I am sending PDFs to Myke

0:18:23and Steven at Relay. My wife is making PDFs for our invoices, for our business.

0:18:27This is, you know, it's funny, we were just talking about drawing things on

0:18:33using the Apple Pencil, you know, what is the paper of the 21st century? I gotta say

0:18:38it's kind of PDFs. This is... perhaps we need to start turning all our sketches

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0:18:56Smilesoftware.com/upgrade. Okay, we got some questions in the ask upgrade box

0:19:03this week. People knew that you were going to be on and they wanted

0:19:08and they had some questions and a lot of them unsurprisingly are about the pencil

0:19:12and about the iPad and how they interact. First one is fascinating it's like a

0:19:18little it's almost like a litmus test. It says, "As Serenity is an avid Apple pencil

0:19:23user. Is she tempted by the 9.7 inch iPad Pro for better portability? This is the big

0:19:30question, right? What are your feelings now? Now that you have the choice of the 12.9 or

0:19:35the 9.7, what are you thinking in terms of what you're going to use?

0:19:38Oh man, that is a choice. So if you had asked me this back in November before I got the

0:19:45big iPad Pro, I would have gotten the 9.7 inch iPad Pro in a heartbeat. Because I just

0:19:51So I thought the 12.9 was gigantic and way too-- I was like, this is-- this feels like

0:19:55a tray to carry cookies out onto.

0:19:58It doesn't feel like a computer.

0:20:00But in the intervening months, having forced myself to use it as my main computer and also

0:20:07having unfortunately drowned my MacBook Air-- and so it is now my only laptop-related computer--

0:20:16I can't see myself going to 9.7 for the things that I currently use my iPad for now.

0:20:24And the really, for me, the really interesting thing on this scale is that before the iPad

0:20:30Pro, I had pretty much given up on my iPad.

0:20:33And I feel so horrible saying this, especially on Relay.

0:20:36It's like Federico is judging me.

0:20:39But I know I, I just had stopped you like my iPad would sit there and I would use it

0:20:45for the occasional, you know, if I had to write a how-to about the iPad, but I wasn't

0:20:50really using it. I would occasionally read on it. I have an iPad Mini that's, you know,

0:20:55sitting in my bedroom that supposedly I use for reading ebooks, but I just, I don't touch

0:21:00it because I've had, you know, I have the 6s and I was using the 6s Plus for a while

0:21:05and that big screen, I was just like, well, I can do, you know, pretty much everything

0:21:09on the big iPhone and carrying around the 9.7 inch iPad and a MacBook Air is too heavy

0:21:15And so I had just it had wound up on the shelf and I felt so bad

0:21:19I'm like this beautiful iPad Air 2 it's such a good computer and I've been doing nothing with it

0:21:24And when the iPad Pro came out

0:21:26I was deeply afraid that that was gonna happen with the iPad Pro that I was gonna buy this $1,100

0:21:33$1,200 tablet and then just put it on the shelf again

0:21:36so I was really

0:21:39Like, it was very much a like, I need to use this.

0:21:42I need to prove to myself that I'm not putting down this money in vain just for kicks and

0:21:47that it's going to sit on the shelf.

0:21:49The pencil honestly was a huge factor in why I didn't put down the iPad Pro, but also forcing

0:21:56myself to actually relearn my workflows, which I had been resisting for the longest time

0:22:01with my 9.7 inch iPad.

0:22:04Learning all of those workflows and getting comfortable with the idea of the iPad as my

0:22:07only computer on the road, really sort of reinvented how I used an iPad.

0:22:13And once I got comfortable with the 9.

0:22:15Or the 12.9 inch iPad, I found it really, really hard to go back to friends 9.7 inch

0:22:22iPads.

0:22:23And even, you know, I have the Air 2.

0:22:24And I even tried to move my workflow over to the 9.7 inch iPad Air in the in the thought

0:22:31of like, well, maybe there will be a smaller iPad Pro in the future.

0:22:34And I found it very difficult because there's just something really nice about having almost

0:22:39full screen side by side apps on the iPad Pro.

0:22:42The extra workspace, especially when you're doing things that go beyond drawing and email

0:22:47communication and the occasional video.

0:22:52When you're trying to do heavy duty productivity, I really appreciate the extra screen space.

0:22:58And also I do a lot of photo editing at iMore, especially when I'm doing for hero images

0:23:04or I'm taking device shots.

0:23:07And once I figured out a photo workflow that worked well for me with the iPad Pro, the

0:23:14idea of moving that to a smaller screen meant losing space for my tools and space for me

0:23:20to be able to pan my canvas around where I just have to zoom in and do more panning than

0:23:26I would otherwise have to do with the 12 inch tablet. So that's the long winded version of saying I am tempted by the 9.7 inch iPad Pro I did get one I got the base, the base 599 Wi Fi model in rose gold just to try it as a drawing tablet and I'm going to be doing sort of a versus

0:23:47artistry review. But I overall I think I'm sticking with my 12.9

0:23:52I'm with you. I am intrigued by the stuff that the 9.7 inch has to offer, and I think

0:23:59for most people it's probably the right choice. But, and I'm right there with you

0:24:03in thinking that back when the 12.9 came out of thinking, well, come on, you know, this

0:24:09is interesting, but the real winner is going to be when these features make it to the regular

0:24:12iPad size. But since I, since I used as listeners of this show, no, since I started using, I

0:24:19the review model. I had that for a month or so and then in mid to late December, I just

0:24:27bought one. It was just like, "No, no, this is it. This is it." And my MacBook Air is

0:24:33still around and I actually use it occasionally when there's something very specific that

0:24:37I need to do with it. But it doesn't get used very often. It's sort of just been replaced

0:24:45by this 12.9-inch iPad Pro.

0:24:49And so, yeah, side-by-side apps or even SlideOver

0:24:53or the little or the narrow and the wide,

0:24:58sort of what two-thirds, one-thirds view,

0:24:59there's so much flexibility with that screen.

0:25:01It's such a big, beautiful screen.

0:25:02It's very hard to give that up.

0:25:04And although I really appreciate the lightness

0:25:07of the 9.7-inch iPads because, boy.

0:25:12- Oh, gosh, it feels like,

0:25:14does feel like you're holding nothing. Yeah, especially after you spend some

0:25:18time building up your iPad muscles with a 12.9 inch, you go back to the 9.7

0:25:23and the new iPad Pro feels just like the old iPad Air 2. It's like there's nothing

0:25:28there, which is great, but then I look at the screen and I look at the

0:25:31keyboard. I have issues with the on-screen keyboard of the iPad

0:25:36Pro, but when I go back to a regular size iPad and I look at that keyboard, I

0:25:40I literally think, "What, are you kidding?" There are no numbers or symbols here, and

0:25:46I'm going to have to keep toggling all of the little shift buttons to get all the characters

0:25:51I need? Come on, right? So yeah, it's not going to happen for me, but I think we're

0:26:00outliers, I suspect. I think that 12.9 is always going to be a product for a very specific

0:26:06kind of user that you know we're gonna be in that happy niche of you know 10% or

0:26:1115% or whatever that percentage is but not you know not 60% of iPads and that's

0:26:16fine.

0:26:17Well it's it's quite literally a legitimately a pro product like the 12.9

0:26:22inch iPad is really for people who need the extra screen space and really need

0:26:29the the larger iPad and in my opinion are probably choosing to choose to take

0:26:34that as their only portable device as opposed to dual wielding an iPad or a

0:26:40laptop and that's granted that's still in sort of like a semi pro category. The

0:26:45big thing I think you touched on it about the keyboard I think is really

0:26:49important because one of the one of the concerns I had with a 9.7 inch iPad Pro

0:26:55especially having after having gotten used to the full-sized beautiful

0:26:59keyboard that exists both on the smart keyboard and on the Logitech create which

0:27:04which is a third party smart connector keyboard.

0:27:06- Yeah.

0:27:07- I haven't gotten a chance to personally type

0:27:09on the 9.7 inch smart keyboard,

0:27:12but boy, I watched Rene type on that thing.

0:27:15And I had him specifically take some like side-by-side

0:27:19videos and I'm looking at that and I'm like,

0:27:22my fingers are pretty tiny,

0:27:23but that still looks awfully cramped and awfully not fun

0:27:27to type on.

0:27:28- It's funny.

0:27:29So, so that keyboard, they've tried,

0:27:34They tried really hard to try and make the minimization of the standard, like the QWERTY keys as limited as possible, I guess I would say.

0:27:45So, like, the iPad Pro 12.9-inch Smart Cover keyboard has sort of gaps on the sides. The gaps are totally gone.

0:27:55Like, it goes right up to the edge with the keys. And the modifier keys are the ones that get shrunken down the most.

0:28:01you know, your returns and shifts that are usually double or triple wide of a standard key are all kind of smooshed to narrower,

0:28:10because they're trying to minimize those sizes and give more room for the regular letter keys.

0:28:16But in the end, you know, yeah, it's shrunken down.

0:28:19And some people, I think it really is going to come down to something that most people aren't even aware of, which is how they type.

0:28:26know, how can they adapt spatially to the location of keys or how locked in are they?

0:28:34And I know that my typing style, I am locked into the location of the keys. And I tried

0:28:41with a netbook at one point to type on a shrunken down keyboard and it was just a disaster.

0:28:45I like, I couldn't, and I couldn't adapt. And it also ruined my regular typing because

0:28:50then I was completely at sea about where the keys were going to be. And so I think for

0:28:54for some people it's going to be fantastic and for other people it's

0:28:57going to be not optimal experience but people are going to have to go I mean I

0:29:02say this about a lot of these products but this is one of those products that

0:29:05you would be much better off going to an Apple store and trying and seeing if

0:29:09it's something you're gonna like or making sure that you you know and being

0:29:12emotionally prepared that you might need to return it if it doesn't if it doesn't

0:29:16work for you that said it's so much lighter than the equivalent product on

0:29:21the big iPad Pro and I think that is a win for it because I don't really love

0:29:26the keyboard cover on the big iPad Pro because it is so heavy because it is

0:29:30just because of the size of it and and the the span of the keyboard and this

0:29:34one because it's way scaled down is a lot lighter and it does not feel as much

0:29:40of a burden and and so I think on that level it's way less intrusive if you can

0:29:47get used to typing on it which is you know I think some people are gonna love

0:29:51it and then other people are going to be like, "No, I can't at all because it's not a full-size

0:29:56keyboard."

0:29:57Yeah, it's a trade-off. You know, if you're not going to be spending your entire day typing

0:30:02on the iPad or if you feel comfortable being able to use software keyboards occasionally,

0:30:07then that might be the perfect solution for you. But if you're an avid typer, you're going

0:30:12to need to try it.

0:30:13Yeah. And so I talked to Apple today about a bunch of stuff and it's a background briefing

0:30:19so I'm not going to like give direct quotes and tell you who I talked to, but I got some

0:30:24of this stuff and I asked about the smart connector and I think it's really interesting

0:30:28that I said, "Am I missing something or are there only three products that use the smart

0:30:33connector?" and they said, "Nope, you're not missing anything." There literally are these

0:30:37two keyboard covers and that Logitech Create keyboard. And so this is the real question

0:30:43is what is going on and apparently there are some other things that are in development.

0:30:48it'll be interesting to see, but there's been, I feel like there's a real space

0:30:52between the keyboard cover and, I mean, when we were at the Yosemite conference,

0:30:56I saw you there with your Logitech Create on your iPad Pro, and it basically

0:31:00turns it into a laptop. It's kind of amazing what it does. The downside of

0:31:04that is that it's sort of locked in and you gotta kind of do some stuff to pop

0:31:08it back out. It's so heavy. You know, it's not even the fact that you have to pop it

0:31:12out because I figured out a good, like, one-two movement for that. Little kung-fu for the iPad Pro.

0:31:17Yeah, well, and the thing, the Create is such a heavy cover,

0:31:21or like a sturdy cover, that I can--

0:31:22I could fling it across the room with my iPad in there,

0:31:26and it would probably protect my iPad.

0:31:28But it is heavy.

0:31:29It turns it into a laptop that basically weighs,

0:31:33I think, just under three pounds.

0:31:35And I haven't carried a three-pound laptop in a while.

0:31:39But I haven't-- the trade-off, the beauty of how comfortable

0:31:43those keys are, it's basically a full-sized keyboard

0:31:46with a function row and all of the functions map to iPad functions.

0:31:50You can, you know, you can get Spotlight search really quickly or you can go back

0:31:53to your home screen. That's really nice.

0:31:56I really...

0:31:57That whole row of keys that's not on the Apple keyboard.

0:32:00I know. And it, that makes me so sad because Apple actually had room on that

0:32:04keyboard for a function row and they chose not to.

0:32:08But, you know, that that keeps me with that awful keyboard case.

0:32:12That and the fact that it covers the iPad's back.

0:32:14Right, so I keep thinking there's got to be a middle ground, right?

0:32:18There's got to be a product that is not quite as intrusive as the Create, but that is not

0:32:23the smart keyboard cover.

0:32:26And I don't know what that product is or if it will ever exist.

0:32:28But you would think there could be something in the middle there.

0:32:32There are enough smart enterprising Apple third party manufacturers that I would hope

0:32:38that someone is working on something that's essentially the smart keyboard with a home

0:32:42row and a back cover. Yeah, something that you can pop in and pop back out fairly

0:32:48quickly. There was one other piece of feedback that I wanted to get now before

0:32:52we go into our next segment that was from listener Justin that is

0:32:57related to the keyboard thing which is, "Can you type with the iPad Pro Smart Cover

0:33:00on your lap?" I don't know if you've tried this with the iPad Pro. I have.

0:33:06And the answer there is yes, question mark, but it's kind of tenuous. I've done it, but it's not like

0:33:15like Serenity's Create keyboard, where then it's just rock solid. It's like you're using a laptop.

0:33:22I love it. And with, I don't find it comfortable. I find it doable, but you kind of have to brace

0:33:29yourself and provide some extra stability in your lap to keep it from tilting over because

0:33:38it's not like what you expect from a laptop. But it can be done. I feel like this is what

0:33:44all the people who used the Surface said a similar thing. It's like, "Yeah, kinda."

0:33:51But it's not ideal. I don't prefer to work with an iPad Pro Smart Cover in my lap, typing

0:33:58like I would with my laptop, I would do something else. I would get my laptop, I would move

0:34:02somewhere else, or actually last week I wrote an article, my column for Macworld last week,

0:34:06I wrote just on the glass of the iPad Pro screen and just did that. And actually, you

0:34:11know, it was pretty good. It worked pretty well. And, you know, similarly, I have to

0:34:17sort of like find a position with my, with my, like my knees where I can have the right

0:34:22angle of the iPad and my hands on the keyboard to get that to work. But, you know, I was

0:34:28able to do that and honestly I would rather do that I think than use the smart cover just

0:34:32because it's a little too rickety. It's rickety on a desk. That's the thing that I don't like about

0:34:38it is it even when you're typing on it what feels like a solid surface you get a lot of vibration

0:34:43and you get a lot of movement. It's true. And again I understand the compromise because you

0:34:48want a thin keyboard and you want it to be functional but you don't want it to be super

0:34:53bulky and the create is definitely bulky. It is definitely not a slim design on an otherwise

0:35:02beautiful iPad Pro, but I'm okay with that.

0:35:06I think maybe I haven't spent much time with the 9.7 so I'll have to check back for Justin

0:35:10on that. My guess is, because like I said about the weight, because everything is lighter,

0:35:16that the 9.7 might actually feel a lot more stable on your lap. Although again you're

0:35:22going to be typing, it's, you know, that smaller keyboard, so you're going to have to see.

0:35:27My go-to right now is an external Bluetooth keyboard. I'm actually using the Magic keyboard

0:35:31right now, and a stand. And that's my go-to for the iPad Pro if I'm writing something,

0:35:37is I prefer just using that, just using the external keyboard. Where it becomes a problem

0:35:41is in those situations where I want the traditional, you know, "Why they call a laptop a laptop?"

0:35:47I actually want it sitting in my lap, and I don't have a solution that feels super comfortable.

0:35:52Create from Logitech would be the best one right now. I also wonder if, I guess

0:35:57you can't, I was thinking could you like, I don't know, could you like use

0:36:02tape or something and stick a 9.7 inch iPad Pro inside that Logitech Create?

0:36:07Yeah you could. It's the same connector. Yeah it is the same connector. The problem is the sheath.

0:36:13So the one thing that I don't like about the Create is that it only has one fixed

0:36:18angle and the way that works is basically having the iPad snapped in.

0:36:22However, yes, I can't say anything for certain, but Logitech's website certainly hints that

0:36:30Baby Pro users will be very happy soon.

0:36:34Well, I mean, that was the hint that I got from Apple too, is that there are other products

0:36:38in the pipeline that use the smart connector and they would know because it's part of the

0:36:42Made for iPhone program.

0:36:45get access to the smart connector it's like using getting access to lightning

0:36:48or or the old iPod connectors you go through Apple and they've got a spec and

0:36:53developer agreement and so more is coming and that'll be that'll be good to

0:36:57see I'd imagine it's going to be just like we've seen with some other stuff

0:37:00including from Apple but there will be way more variety and accessories for the

0:37:039.7 inch iPad Pro than for the 12.9 like you can only get three colors of cover

0:37:08for the 12.9 and the 9.7 is like we have all the colors. So many colors. I'm

0:37:14I'm jealous. I'm seriously jealous. I want a colored cover and I can't get one.

0:37:18Yeah, marigolds. They're so nice.

0:37:20I know. Mine is gray. It is gray and boring.

0:37:23Yeah, that's the downside. Gray or white smart keyboard?

0:37:26Or white. Yeah.

0:37:27No, no, no thank you.

0:37:29It's after Labor Day. I can't. I just can't.

0:37:32Yeah, we've wrapped back around.

0:37:34The one thing I will say about the Baby Pro is that you should be able to use the 12.9 inch smart keyboard with the 9.7 inch iPad Pro.

0:37:43iPad Pro. It'll look a little weird. Super weird, but it should work. I'm going to try

0:37:47that out. I haven't had a chance, but it should work because it's all the same, right?

0:37:51Yeah, yeah. You just couldn't really use it as a cover.

0:37:54No, as a cover it wouldn't work well, but if you're looking for like, "I need a light

0:37:58smart connector keyboard, but I don't want to use something as tiny as the 9.7-inch processor,"

0:38:04it's possible. Yeah, don't do that. You totally could do

0:38:06that, but I don't think I can recommend it. Okay, we've got even more to talk about.

0:38:13about the iPad and other stuff that was launched last week, but I want to take a break to tell

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0:41:25Hooray!

0:41:26I got a UCSD mention in there.

0:41:28I always like that.

0:41:29I don't think they were pandering to me when they stuck it in there. That was actually one of their examples and I've raised my eyebrow and said, "Why UCSD you say?"

0:41:37It's pretty great. People never know where, like my college is not one that anybody's ever heard of so that's kind of fun to have it be referenced there.

0:41:47I think they shot part of like Attack of the Killer Tomatoes on my college campus. That's like our claim to fame. It's not very famous.

0:41:55So, Lister Krister wrote in and wanted to ask how the drawing on the 9.7 and 12.9 models

0:42:05vary, if anything. Is there any lag issues? Are there any differences? I don't know.

0:42:09It seems to me like they're basically identical. Is that what you've heard or seen?

0:42:14Yeah, so I, again, just like the—

0:42:16You're going to defer to Rene. So you're in the room with it, but Rene would not let

0:42:19you touch it. Or if he did, you couldn't admit it.

0:42:22Yeah, I could not.

0:42:25He did some extensive tests at my request,

0:42:28and it looks identical, honestly.

0:42:30It doesn't look like there's any difference,

0:42:33there's any differentiation in lag,

0:42:35any differentiation in mapping.

0:42:38I think you'll get just as smooth lines and just

0:42:40as nice handwriting as you would on the bigger model.

0:42:44I can't say this 100% for sure, because I still

0:42:46want to run some tests when I get my model on Thursday,

0:42:49but that is definitely something that I'm

0:42:51to be looking into.

0:42:52Great. Yeah, I mean, my impression is the same, which is I think this is intended to

0:42:56be an identical experience, but I'm sure you will, you will ferret out any changes as you

0:43:01go. If anybody can, you can. Also wanted to know, listener Mark wrote in to say, "Serenity,

0:43:09will we see more iPad experiment and art articles from you in the future?" Do you have, you

0:43:15have an inclination to get, you have some ideas about where you're going with your,

0:43:19your iPad and pencil stuff?

0:43:21- Oh yes, okay, so we'll definitely see some more articles.

0:43:24I'm actually, I have one coming out this week

0:43:26that's the best handwriting apps.

0:43:28I have been testing them for the last two weeks.

0:43:30- Oh nice.

0:43:31- So we've got some really, really good ones in there.

0:43:34And then I'm also going to be doing,

0:43:36as I think I mentioned earlier in the podcast,

0:43:37an artist's review of the 9.7 inch iPad and a head-to-head.

0:43:42I might also revisit my Microsoft Surface comparison,

0:43:47hitting the surface head-to-head against the 9.7 inch iPad and seeing if there's

0:43:53any change, any difference.

0:43:55Okay, so a lot for Mark and the rest of us to look forward to.

0:43:59Oh yeah. Very nice. I thought as much, but that was a good opportunity to plug that.

0:44:03Can you tell me the story about you drowning your MacBook Air? I don't

0:44:06think I've heard this one and I'm horrified.

0:44:08What did you do? What did you do?

0:44:11This was the mistake where Serenity has been a college professor this

0:44:16semester, which has been really exciting and a big sort of opening of like things I know

0:44:23how to do and things I'm still learning how to do.

0:44:25Unfortunately one of my office hour sessions involved me bringing both my iPad Pro and

0:44:31my MacBook Air to consult with a student.

0:44:35And we were working on some HTML and unfortunately there happened to be an open water bottle

0:44:40sitting right in between both models.

0:44:44So I can't say for sure that the iPad Pro knocked over the water bottle onto the MacBook

0:44:49Air, but essentially at one point, there was no water on my MacBook and then there was

0:44:54water on my MacBook.

0:44:56So sadly, and the worst part, it wasn't even a lot of water.

0:45:01It wasn't, you know, I've seen horrible, you know, complete drownings where you just like

0:45:06give up and you say, "Well, that's gone.

0:45:08Everything's ruined now."

0:45:10was just enough water for me to be slightly concerned, but not so much that I was like,

0:45:16oh, no, everything, you know, everything is awful. So but they but because I was at the

0:45:22college that I'm teaching at currently, I had nothing but some paper towels from the ladies

0:45:28room to try and mop it up with so they were and I just, there was no way to properly save it. And

0:45:33it booted that evening, and I turned it off. And then the next morning, I could not get it to plug

0:45:38again and it's it's been sitting sadly on my yeah yeah poor thing it was just

0:45:44over a year old alright Pete Macbook Air I might take him I might take it to a to

0:45:50a Genius Bar at some point to see just how terrible the damage is but I'm pretty

0:45:55sad that Macbook Airs have been my computer since 2010 Wow feels like the

0:46:01end of a legacy. I, I, I, yeah, I feel really uncomfortable now. I feel really bad.

0:46:08And so, because I love, I love my MacBook Air too, even though I don't use it like I

0:46:11used to. It's like I'm very attached to those computers and, and you know, this is not the

0:46:16first time I think many podcast listeners have heard about somebody spilling water on

0:46:19a MacBook Air and ruining it, Casey Liss. But, uh, boy, it happens, right? I mean, that's,

0:46:25why have we not, see, this is something that maybe Apple needs to work on. Does the, I

0:46:29I don't know if the MacBook, the adjective-less MacBook, is any different in this regard,

0:46:35but at some point, shouldn't they have some kind of guard under the keyboard to prevent

0:46:41a little water spill from destroying an entire computer?

0:46:44Shouldn't that happen?

0:46:45I would really hope so.

0:46:47It can't be that, well, it's going to be difficult because they haven't done it yet.

0:46:51But you know, I don't even think it was the keyboard that ruined me.

0:46:53I think it was the rear ports where the fans and the exhaust,

0:46:57Because I think a couple of water droplets got in the back there and then I just couldn't

0:47:01clean them out because that hinge, that hinge is right there.

0:47:05But yeah, I really hope computers are so important and you know, they've gotten very good at

0:47:14making iPads and iPhones less vulnerable to catastrophic spills.

0:47:20It helps very much that there are very few places for water to enter inside your iPad

0:47:24or iPhone, short of dunking it into, say, a large body of water or a toilet.

0:47:30You're usually safe if you accidentally get some water droplets on the screen.

0:47:35But with a Mac, I just feel if it's anything more than like six or seven droplets of rain,

0:47:40you're screwed.

0:47:41You're sad.

0:47:42Well, I'm glad you got your iPad Pro to help you through this.

0:47:46Me too!

0:47:47Oh, gosh.

0:47:48Yeah, it has been an adventure in "Can I live without a portable laptop?"

0:47:54And so far the answer is yes, although I definitely missed it a little bit when covering the event

0:47:59last week.

0:48:00Yeah, well that was one of the times when I actually got the MacBook Air out.

0:48:04A couple people asked about this, like, "Do I cover those events with the iPad Pro now?"

0:48:09And the answer is absolutely not, and it's largely because of my live setup.

0:48:16Not only is putting that, like we said, putting the iPad Pro and the smart keyboard in your

0:48:21lap or iPad Pro with any kind of other keyboard in your lap, rickety at best.

0:48:26But I also like to take pictures and tweet some of them out during the live event.

0:48:32And I have no way of doing that in an iOS workflow at this point.

0:48:35I guess I could be constantly switching memory cards and importing photos and all that, but

0:48:41I've got an aperture tethered shooting scripting workflow that is super set up and it's just

0:48:51it's all ready to go and so you put those two things together that the all

0:48:55the photography stuff is already built in I've already built it all and it

0:48:59gives me a stable place to type in my lap while I'm sitting in those super

0:49:03cramped seats at town hall and yeah absolutely I just it actually felt weird

0:49:07though that I went down there and I didn't have my iPad Pro in my bag I only

0:49:11had the MacBook Air and that was a weird feeling because I've kind of come to be

0:49:16it to expect the iPad Pro to always be there and occasionally also the MacBook

0:49:20Didn't happen. Yeah, and they're still just too big to carry both of them around.

0:49:25Although that was my folly. I carried both around and, you know, sad.

0:49:29I do that too. I do that too. My bag doesn't like that, right? Because bags aren't really made for two devices of that size.

0:49:34They expect you to only have the one. I also tried the, I should mention, I tried that adapter, that USB, the powered USB adapter this week.

0:49:42adapter this week and I wrote about that on six colors which is one more piece by

0:49:48the way your your your I'm more colleague Renee Ritchie is the is the

0:49:52person who started the applause for the the announcement by Phil Schiller that

0:49:55podcast microphones can now be powered by this adapter because it gets power

0:49:59from the lightning port

0:50:01I was so so happy to hear a shout out to podcasters hopefully that means dual

0:50:05stream audio is coming in I know that's the other the other shoe to drop is some

0:50:11solution and software so you can capture audio on one app while another app is

0:50:15also using the audio input and hopefully that will happen but it is I was able to

0:50:19attach a USB ethernet adapter and although there is no user interface for

0:50:23Ethernet on iOS it worked so obviously like if you have a DHCP network and you

0:50:29attach an ethernet adapter and you turn off your Wi-Fi it works like it just

0:50:35figures out ok I've got this ethernet device I guess I'll use that as my

0:50:39network interface and I went through settings and I was looking is there some

0:50:42like special thing that has appeared or something

0:50:44nope there was no sign that I was on the network at all in any of the settings

0:50:48apps or anything but I was on the network so for all I know that's been

0:50:53the case for a while now but I'd never really even thought to try that and it

0:50:58totally worked and I was able to power the Yeti USB microphone that couldn't be

0:51:03powered before. I was able to power my USB Pre 2, the USB box that I use that I attach

0:51:11my XLR microphones to, like the one I'm talking in now. That one worked with it just fine.

0:51:18So yeah, and more to the point, it powers your device while you're using an external

0:51:26device. This isn't just about stunts, too. It's also about stuff that could be powered

0:51:30by the old adapter. The old adapter was just a USB plug, right? So, like Marco

0:51:34Armand, it kind of came up with this thing that I used too, which is you could do

0:51:39like a live audio stream, like we do at Relay and the Incomparable, and you could

0:51:42do it from an iPad or an iPhone using this USB audio device. It was super

0:51:47clever. You attach the audio box to your mixer and then you just push a button on

0:51:52this one app on your iPhone or your iPad and you're streaming live from anywhere.

0:51:57a really very clever idea. The problem is you better have a full battery when you start

0:52:02that because it has to do all of that work without being plugged in because there's

0:52:07no power. And this new adapter, that goes away. Like, you can do stuff that involves

0:52:13USB. Like, if you want to work all day on an iPad Pro attached to your special corporate

0:52:18Ethernet network, let's say, you could do it because it's also receiving power. So,

0:52:23know, before it would have been like, "Well, I gotta use Ethernet, but I gotta let my battery

0:52:28run down while I do it, and then I can not use Ethernet and plug it in." Anyway, so I was very

0:52:32happy to get that adapter last week, and it does everything Phil Schiller said it would do.

0:52:36Stephanie Hauschlager Thanks, Phil Schiller.

0:52:41David Tashroud Yeah, it was nice. Well,

0:52:42something I think for all of us too who have used those USB adapters in the past and felt like we

0:52:48we were getting away with something. Like, well, you can, but it's only a matter of time

0:52:54before Apple realizes that this is stupid.

0:52:56They take it away, yeah.

0:52:57And they take it away. You don't want to do that.

0:53:01And now they've made it a good reason or a good mill ground for people who do want to

0:53:06use non-camera related activities on their adapters. Have you tried the new USB-C 29-watt

0:53:16adapter because I'm waiting for my cord to try that out. I haven't. I haven't. I

0:53:21don't have that adapter and I don't have a USB-C to lightning cord so I haven't

0:53:27tried it. Although it sounds like that is only for only for us. It's only for 12.9

0:53:33inch iPad Pro people. It is. We got one new thing 12 point well technically we

0:53:38got two new things 12.9 inch iPad Pro users are soon to be users. If you

0:53:42haven't bought a 12.9 inch iPad Pro yet, you can get a 256 gig version. You guys suck.

0:53:48Yeah. That's awesome. But also, yeah, you can get a USB-C to lightning cable and plug

0:53:55it into this beautiful, I'm holding the 29 watt adapter. I bought the adapter when I

0:54:00was down in Cupertino, but I couldn't buy the cord. So I ordered the cord online and

0:54:05I'm like, "Well, I have the adapter in hand and hopefully the cord will come soon." Someday.

0:54:09And they'll do the super fast charging which is cool and I guess the other thing that 12.9

0:54:15has going for it, Jeff Carlson wrote about this on his website, is it's the one that

0:54:19does USB 3.

0:54:21Yes, this is also true.

0:54:22The RAM and the USB 3 speeds are really important if you're planning on using your iPad as a

0:54:28photography device, which is interesting.

0:54:30So I think the breakdown for iPad at least internally at Apple my guess is well the 9.7

0:54:38inch iPad is the iPad that you film with and the 12.9 inch iPad is the iPad that you offload

0:54:45film and photography to.

0:54:48Because the 9.7 inch iPad, great cameras, but still USB 2 speeds, which is not terrible

0:54:55speeds, just not quite nearly as good as USB 3 as Jeff Carlson points out in that wonderful

0:55:01article.

0:55:03Whereas the USB 3 speeds on the 12.9 inch Pro are awesome and you have that big beautiful

0:55:08screen but you have a slightly terrible camera, more terrible camera and honestly why would

0:55:13you want to film with a 12.9 inch tablet? It's too big.

0:55:16Right, right. It's um, what's the other thing? The other thing we've got is, well we should

0:55:21talk about the RAM. So listener, I'll move this up from our Ask Upgrade segment. Bruce,

0:55:26listener Bruce said, "Is the 2 gigs of RAM in the new iPad Pro a worry compared to the

0:55:29original?" I think it's a good question and I think there's more tests that need to be

0:55:33done. My understanding is one of the things about how iPads work is that the video RAM

0:55:39is shared memory. And so you actually, on a smaller screen, there's less memory usage

0:55:47for video. And there are many fewer pixels on the 9.7 inch than on the 12.9 inch. So

0:55:55one argument would be, and I think this is the argument maybe Apple would like to make

0:55:59but can't quite is that because it's a smaller screen the effect of using it

0:56:06compared to the other one in terms of all the stuff you do isn't very

0:56:11different I suspect it is different you could find edge cases where you're going

0:56:15to definitely feel the the 4 gigs instead of the 2 gigs but it's mitigated

0:56:20maybe somewhat by the the screen size that's the that's the the the feeling I

0:56:27I get. But I have not confirmed it and I have to spend some time trying to like get iPads

0:56:31to do identical things and see if that Safari tab has to reload or not. Because it's hard

0:56:36to say right now.

0:56:37Yeah, my honestly, my biggest worry about two gigs versus four gigs of RAM, I have been

0:56:43doing a lot of heavy duty photo editing in with a 12.9 inch iPad Pro and a decent amount

0:56:49of video editing, both with Pinnacle and with iMovie. And I have a feeling that that's where

0:56:57where we'll also see a little bit of bottleneck is when you're working with

0:56:59dual stream 4k or high you know very high quality photos or trying to do

0:57:05excessive rendering I do a lot of repair repair tool action with pixelmator and

0:57:12it's pretty quick on the iPad Pro on the big iPad Pro and I'm curious to see how

0:57:19long the same repair action will take on a 9.7 inch model. Hmm interesting yeah I

0:57:24guess we'll have to see. Yeah, yeah. So this is the stuff that really we've got our guesses

0:57:33based on what we might have seen at the event or heard, but then there's all the stuff that

0:57:38you've got to test yourself. Let's see. So we've got not a lot of time left. I want to

0:57:46go to Ask Upgrade pretty soon, but are there any other things that came out of the Apple

0:57:50event last week that really struck you, you know, and that you'd like to chat about a

0:57:55little bit. Anything that you thought was interesting that maybe hasn't gotten the attention

0:58:00that it deserves?

0:58:01Yeah, I mean the iPhone SE I feel like is, you know, tent pole, whatever. It's fun. Five

0:58:05inch or four inch iPhone, yay, return. I'm sticking with my big one.

0:58:10It's a remix, right? It's like bits of one phone in the body of another phone. I think

0:58:14it's very interesting for strategy reasons, but technology-wise it's not that interesting

0:58:19because it's stuff we've seen before.

0:58:21It is.

0:58:21And I know people are going to be happy about it.

0:58:23The watch, I'm really excited.

0:58:25I'm wearing a nylon band right now,

0:58:27one of the new woven nylon bands.

0:58:30I really like it as a successor to the sport band.

0:58:33It doesn't get nearly as itchy as my sport.

0:58:35It breathes really well.

0:58:37And it looks really tacky in photographs.

0:58:40And then the second I actually put it on, I'm like, oh, okay,

0:58:44now I see what they're going for.

0:58:45And it looks a lot better, a little bit,

0:58:47It is definitely swatch watchy.

0:58:49Like it's, it's definitely more silly and stylish than classy and stylish, but I

0:58:54definitely, you know, I'm, I'm definitely going to get a couple of colors of these

0:58:58and do a more in depth review because I really like the way that they feel.

0:59:02Yeah.

0:59:03I'm looking forward to, uh, to checking those out.

0:59:06I saw them in person at the event and they look good.

0:59:09Um, I'm not sure it's my personal style, but they look better, I think in person

0:59:13than they do in picture form.

0:59:14Yes, much better.

0:59:16I mean, that's my challenge when I review these is how am I going to photograph these

0:59:20and make them actually look awesome?

0:59:22Because they do look awesome in reality, I think.

0:59:26The big one that I don't think is getting talked about a lot is the 9.3 of course got

0:59:33a huge preview, but Apple didn't really hype or put a lot of focus on the Apple TV update,

0:59:409.2, which I feel like for people who have Apple TVs or for people who are on the fence

0:59:45of getting Apple TVs, this is a huge update.

0:59:48This is an update that really brings some added functionality to the Apple TV, especially

0:59:53where Siri is concerned.

0:59:56You can now do Siri for dictation, so you can search or enter in passwords.

1:00:01And for people wondering how Siri dictation works with passwords, it's not like you have

1:00:05to say your password and Siri has to interpret it.

1:00:09You say it one letter or one symbol or one character at a time, which works really well.

1:00:15I've done a bunch of testing on it and surprisingly well for that kind of searching,

1:00:20but you, or for that kind of text entry.

1:00:22But you can also find apps on the app store now.

1:00:25If you speak Spanish,

1:00:28you can talk to Siri in Spanish and Siri will understand you.

1:00:32I feel like that's really helpful, especially because the remote,

1:00:36you know, there are some pluses and some minuses with the remote.

1:00:39They fixed one of my biggest complaints with the remote,

1:00:43which is now when you're watching a show,

1:00:45if you accidentally graze the touch pad,

1:00:48it's not going to immediately bring up the scrubber

1:00:51and move you from where you were watching in your show.

1:00:53I don't know if you've ever done that, Jason,

1:00:55but it was so miserable.

1:00:56It would sit next to me on the couch,

1:00:58and then I'd brush it and it would move.

1:01:01Now you have to click the thing before,

1:01:04you have to physically depress it

1:01:06before it will bring up the scrubber

1:01:07and then click it again to move it.

1:01:09- There you go.

1:01:10That is so much better.

1:01:11yeah, I just we I would have like people walk by the the coffee table and brush against it and mess

1:01:19up the remote thing. I'm like, no way. Are you picking it up to do something else? And it Yeah,

1:01:26so that's no it's it's funny. I mean, there are lots of rumors about what was happening with the

1:01:31Apple TV and whether it had been built, but then kind of like put in the fridge for a while. It's

1:01:37unclear I've never heard definitively exactly what happened I'm sure it was

1:01:42complicated regardless but what shipped was not was like strangely strangely

1:01:50incomplete in some ways it felt it felt like a product that on one level you

1:01:55know the rumors have been they had it waiting to go for like a year but on

1:01:58another level it feels like it taken them by surprise when it finally came

1:02:02out and with 9.2 software it seems like it's basically where we expected it to

1:02:08be on day one and it just wasn't there on day one. No I mean they had a lot they

1:02:14had a lot to do especially based on some of the similar rumors that I was hearing

1:02:19about how the the box is life. I'm really glad of the things that they they

1:02:23finally they were on their roadmap you know it would have been nice for a series

1:02:27to and the Apple TV to have launched with spelling dictation or support for

1:02:31wireless keyboards or iCloud photo library, which is now available in full on your Apple

1:02:36TV. No more shared photos only. You can get any photo from your iCloud photo library if

1:02:41it's connected. You can organize your apps into folders just like on iOS, although yes,

1:02:46it's just as painful as iOS to organize. I don't know, I'm actually going to do a sort

1:02:53of a re-review of the Apple TV a couple months later and I'm really grateful that this software

1:03:00update came out because it shows to me that Apple is thinking seriously about the Apple

1:03:06TV.

1:03:07It has moved beyond hobby status.

1:03:09And you know, this is, you know, 9.2, arguably a minor update as far as all things concerned.

1:03:159.3, you know, introduced night shift, but arguably also a minor update.

1:03:20But sticking in all of this stuff for a minor, you know, 9x update for Apple TV, it makes

1:03:26be really excited for what we might see at WWDC or the fall for 10.0.

1:03:29Yeah, yeah, I'm, boy WWDC is going to be really interesting isn't it?

1:03:36It depends on like the future of where they're taking the watch and what's

1:03:40going on with Apple TV and then of course... What's going on with the Mac?

1:03:43Is the Mac going to get a new name? There's just a lot of stuff going on out there.

1:03:46It's, yeah, really interesting. You want to answer some questions?

1:03:51Let's answer some questions. Some Ask Upgrade? Alright, it's time for Ask Upgrade

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1:06:35upgrade I got to provide all the lasers this week - it's part of it was not even

1:06:40in the budget. I broke the budget for that. That's okay. It was worth it. I think so.

1:06:44So here's some listeners. So listener Jan wrote in to say, "iPad Pro is very expensive

1:06:50in Europe and storage upgrades too. Could you cope with only 32 gigabytes? How would

1:06:55your usage change?" What do you think about storage on iPad? I think you can probably

1:07:01cope with 32 gigabytes. You can certainly cope with it better than 16 gigabytes. But

1:07:07I tend to download a lot of apps because the iPad is a multi-purpose device, right?

1:07:13You think about the kinds of things that you might do on an iPad and the storage worries

1:07:18get even larger.

1:07:19If you're watching video, that's going to be a chunk of things.

1:07:21If you're looking at photographs, that's going to be a chunk of space.

1:07:24If you're downloading photographs to edit them, that's going to be a chunk.

1:07:28If you're drawing, that's talking, now you're talking about retina resolution drawings,

1:07:32which are going to take up space.

1:07:34That's not even counting any games that you might want to play or any, you know,

1:07:38traditional, uh, like Facebook or tweet bot or Snapchat.

1:07:43I don't know if they make Snapchat for the iPad. I don't think so. Uh,

1:07:46that's not counting the social apps that you want to use.

1:07:49So my general inclination with the iPad is that bigger storage is better

1:07:54storage, especially if you're planning on doing multiple things.

1:07:58If you're maybe just focusing on videos or just focusing on storage,

1:08:03that might give you more leeway to do what you want and to say,

1:08:07Oh, well, you know, I'm only going to I'm only going to use the iPad for watching

1:08:12videos on the plane right now. So I don't need a whole lot of space. But if you're

1:08:15continually using it for a bunch of different things, I would lean towards

1:08:19higher storage tiers.

1:08:21Yeah, it depends. I mean, you can you can manage small storage, right? You can

1:08:27offload you can and I mean, I every now and then I hear somebody say, Oh, no,

1:08:31never you always should have the most possible like I don't know I think most

1:08:36almost all use cases you could you can get by with offloading things but that

1:08:41said if you if you there are specific reasons right like don't if you travel

1:08:46you want a lot of movies on there if you're doing things with huge video

1:08:49files or if I do podcast editing right those audio files are often quite huge

1:08:55too but um but yeah I think you can get by I think it's one of those things like

1:08:59you're paying for convenience in most cases of just like not having to worry

1:09:03about it right you download your apps and you don't have to worry about it and

1:09:06I have the big I have the big iPad Pro too and it feels good because I just

1:09:11don't even know honestly how much of the storage I'm using but you know but I

1:09:15paid for it and I could probably have gotten by with less I just decided to to

1:09:19max it out

1:09:20listener hav we've gone from yon to have actually these are both very short names

1:09:28that have special pronunciations. I hope I got that right. I think that's Hov says, "Should

1:09:33people with the iPad Air 1 upgrade to the 9.7 iPad Pro?" What do you think?

1:09:38Yes, yes, yes. I think that the iPad, the original iPad Air is still a pretty good machine,

1:09:45but the iPad Pro with the A9X and support for the pencil and the new speaker system

1:09:52and the True Tone display, which we didn't even really talk about in this episode, there's

1:09:56a lot of really really awesome stuff that I think users who have been you

1:10:01know sitting with their old iPad for a couple years or more are going to be

1:10:05really really excited to get to play with.

1:10:07Yeah I agree I mean I think that if you've got certainly before an iPad Air

1:10:13One you should absolutely look at this this is going to be a way better product

1:10:17for you and even the iPad Air One you know or two if you want to use the

1:10:21pencil especially it's going to make a it's going to make a huge difference.

1:10:24Listen, John wrote in to say and knowing you were going to be on what's the

1:10:30latest with iBooks Author? Has it gotten easier to use?

1:10:33It has. You know what, iBooks Author, the last major update iBooks Author had was

1:10:38last year and a huge kind of improvement that they made was the ability to

1:10:44directly open EPUB files. So e-book files that you would maybe worked on were

1:10:49exported from a different service, you can then open and import into iBooks

1:10:53Author, which is pretty awesome. You still can't save iBooks Author files as

1:10:58EPUBs, but the ability to import that without having to manually copy and

1:11:04paste stuff to build it for different formats is really cool. iBooks Author

1:11:08still has some limitations. It's still, you know, all of the eBooks building

1:11:13software, there's still no one perfect tool. But if you're looking for something

1:11:19that makes ebook building easy, especially if you're a new author who wants to do stuff

1:11:24with multimedia, I think it's gotten 1000 times easier to use since it was first debuted.

1:11:30It's kind of in, I'm wondering if they'll do something for it either this summer or

1:11:36this fall, though, especially with the excess that they the importance that they've placed

1:11:41on education recently with the iPad.

1:11:43Yeah, it's it's one of those products that it's just hanging around, right? It's like

1:11:48Not high profile at all, but it's out there.

1:11:52Somebody's still working on it.

1:11:53- Got a team, a very small team, but it's a team.

1:11:56- Yeah, that's good.

1:11:58Team means it's more than one, so that's nice.

1:12:01It's like I cracked the code there.

1:12:02You probably know the entire team by name, don't you?

1:12:05Don't you?

1:12:06(laughs)

1:12:07- I will neither confirm nor deny.

1:12:09- Fair enough.

1:12:10Listener Devin wrote in to say,

1:12:11"Do you think the Apple Watch 2 will accept

1:12:14OG Apple Watch bands?"

1:12:17Well put, Devin.

1:12:19The OG.

1:12:20The OG bands, the original bands.

1:12:23What do you think?

1:12:25Yeah, I think they would be stupid not to.

1:12:29The iPad, the iPad, the Apple Watch at this point is just over a year old.

1:12:35It will, well, I guess just under, oh no, just about a year old as of either two days

1:12:41ago, I think.

1:12:42I think it came March 24th last year.

1:12:45So just a year old now.

1:12:47Just over a year old.

1:12:48If they announce an Apple Watch 2,

1:12:50it's probably going to be either at DubDub or in September.

1:12:55I'm leaning towards September right now.

1:12:56And I think they'll make it thinner.

1:13:00But they've given themselves some leeway

1:13:03in terms of how the bands connect

1:13:05and the basic thickness of the case.

1:13:08So I think they can shave off actually quite a bit

1:13:10of thickness of the case without interfering

1:13:13with the band connections.

1:13:14And given how much, how many resources they've put into making these collection of bands,

1:13:20I really think that they're not gonna, we're gonna get, I feel like at least two iterations of the Apple Watch with the original band connector.

1:13:29It just, it seems like a really good way to anger customers otherwise.

1:13:35- Yeah. - I agree. I actually would be not surprised at all if the Apple Watch 2 looked no different than the Apple Watch original,

1:13:42and that they focused on upgrading the inside. And I don't think... I'm not sure they even want to make it thinner,

1:13:47because do they feel that it's too thick, or do they feel that they could use a little more battery life, or some other thing on the inside?

1:13:54Like, do they want to make it harder on themselves by making it thinner, or do they want to make the whole thing just be better?

1:14:02like it's in a place now where better is probably more important than thinner. I don't hear a lot of

1:14:07people complaining that the Apple Watch is just too thick, but maybe those people are out there.

1:14:11And I agree. I think one of the advantages of doing these banned updates as they've been doing

1:14:17is kind of wrecked if they then just make them all kind of invalid. I think, yes, Apple has a history

1:14:27of making things incompatible in the past but I feel like the Apple Watch is

1:14:31yeah it's at a careful stage you want to you want to nurture it and make

1:14:35the users feel happy about it and keeping their band investment even if

1:14:43they decide to upgrade seems like a way to do that make them make them happy

1:14:47about the Apple Watch ecosystem right okay listen to Brando says why doesn't

1:14:54Apple use the colors of the iPod touch on their phones? They look really good on metal.

1:14:58They do. But anodizing aluminum is challenging to begin with. And also,

1:15:06there's something to be said about following design trends and going with the colors of the

1:15:16season. This sounds so dumb. But because Apple is now in fashion with the Apple Watch, I think

1:15:22I think they've always had sort of an eye towards what colors are sort of hot and in

1:15:28the public eye.

1:15:29Rose gold is a really great example of that.

1:15:33And I feel like there are only so many color variations that they can put out for the iPhone

1:15:39line before it starts getting ridiculous.

1:15:41They already have a ton of SKUs in their system.

1:15:43They have a ton of different iPhone models.

1:15:45And every extra iPhone color you get, that adds a whole extra slew of models, because

1:15:52then you have to look at the LTE models and are there different?

1:15:55They've mostly unified that band spectrum but I think are there still two?

1:15:59There are two models of iPhone 6s and two models of 6s Plus I believe.

1:16:03Yeah I mean they've got five models plus all the colors that are already there plus all

1:16:08of the size skews for storage right?

1:16:11Yeah exactly and then so you add that each color adds all of those extra

1:16:17skews and that in comparison the iPod touch had what two sizes per color so it's

1:16:25a little little less of a little less stress that's the short answer

1:16:29I I would love to see it and I feel like Apple's gotten much better about

1:16:35handling multicolored things but yeah the more colors they offer I don't think

1:16:40it being kind of like fashion is is an issue I just think yeah that's that's

1:16:46the question is do they really want to stock do we really want to commit to

1:16:49stocking like five or six different colors or or even like two or three

1:16:53additional colors on top of that they've got gold and rose gold and silver and

1:16:59space gray already so they've already got four colors I just I feel like

1:17:04they're also plain I would really love to see a brighter like super vibrant

1:17:09like a color color like a blue you know that would be great but I don't know I

1:17:15hope so. I hope at some point in the future they will turn around and embrace

1:17:19colorful stuff like they did with the nano, but I wouldn't put money on it for

1:17:25soon, I guess. One last real question before a ridiculous question. So,

1:17:32ListerMyke, not Myke Hurley because he spelled it right, says, "Woo, burn Myke Hurley! I said you spelled your name wrong.

1:17:37Which of your hot takes have cooled off the most?" This is really interesting.

1:17:41What initial impressions of new tech did you later reverse?

1:17:45Do you have anything that you think,

1:17:46you know, that you thought one thing

1:17:48and then after using it for a little while,

1:17:50you're like, oh no, actually that's no good.

1:17:52- That's a good, I'm gonna have you start with yours

1:17:56'cause I'm thinking about mine.

1:17:57- Okay, you're gonna pass?

1:17:57All right, okay.

1:17:58- I'm not gonna pass.

1:17:59I wanna do, but I have a couple that I'm thinking about.

1:18:02- I'm gonna mention one that's recent

1:18:04that I think people might be surprised by,

1:18:07but I, as conceptually, I am behind the idea of 3D touch, I never use it.

1:18:16I was talking to Gruber about this last week at the Apple event, and he was saying, and I think he's right,

1:18:22that one of the challenges here is that it's this alternate click, but you can't, alternate tap,

1:18:29but you can't count on it on all of iOS, so it's gotten kind of put off on the side

1:18:34as some sort of strange unique gestures that aren't really required but they're

1:18:39optional and that they might be better off saying you know there's one

1:18:45alternate you know alternate touch and on 3D touch devices it works with a 3D

1:18:52touch and on all the other devices it works with like a touch and hold but

1:18:55they would have to redefine what the touches are but this is the problem it's

1:18:58just like the problem with the the extra clicks on the Mac it's like they already

1:19:01defined what everything is for a click and an alternate click so even though

1:19:06you have the capability for this extra click nobody really uses it because

1:19:08what's it good for and you can't count on it on all devices and you know and so

1:19:13for me I say that I really like the idea and I feel like there could really be

1:19:16something amazing done with it but honestly I never I just never use 3d

1:19:22touch and in fact I try very hard not to over you know it's made me even on the

1:19:26iPad like afraid to push too hard on the screen for fear I trigger it when I

1:19:31don't want to because I never want to. So that's mine. I've cooled on 3D Touch

1:19:36as implemented. I feel like I have the exact opposite path as you

1:19:42where I started off being like 3D Touch is weird and it's a cool idea but then I

1:19:48completely forgot about it and in the last I'd say two months I've gotten

1:19:52really really into it. This is funny. I think mine is actually going to be the 6s plus. I switched

1:20:01back to a 6s last week and I don't know how I lived without it. I have the 6s. I do have the

1:20:08battery pack on the back and I do wish that the battery pack had a rose gold option because I have

1:20:14this lovely rose gold 6s that I only ever see like a peek of rose gold from the camera. But the 6s

1:20:21Plus is great in many ways.

1:20:24It does have the best camera of the iPhone line.

1:20:28And its screen is amazing.

1:20:30But after having used it--

1:20:32I used it basically for four or five months.

1:20:35And I made the decision when the SE was announced

1:20:38to go back to the 6S.

1:20:40I wasn't going to go back to 4-inch.

1:20:41But I'm like, you know what?

1:20:43I kind of missed the 4.7-inch phone.

1:20:45And then once I went back, I realized just how much

1:20:49I was compromising to kind of run with the 6S Plus.

1:20:53It's a beautiful screen.

1:20:55I like the big screen in some regards, but I also think that it kept me from working

1:21:02on my iPad or working on my Mac, where I was just attempting to do things poorly on a semi-compatible

1:21:09screen rather than actually choosing the right device for the right space.

1:21:14And I'm also really glad to just have a phone that fits in my pocket again.

1:21:18Boy, Myke's taking it on the chin again in another week where he's not here.

1:21:23He should never leave.

1:21:25This is the rule.

1:21:26This is the lesson, Myke.

1:21:27Never leave.

1:21:29One last question.

1:21:30This is from listener Dean and it is, "What are Jason's Hawaiian must-dos/visits?"

1:21:37Because we talked about Hawaiian pizza and Hawaii came up on Twitter a bunch.

1:21:41Hawaii is my favorite place in the world.

1:21:43I would go there. I would go on vacation there every year, twice a year, all the time, whatever.

1:21:49I don't know. If you go to the Big Island of Hawaii, I liked staying over in the Kailua-Kona

1:21:58area, which is the drier area, warmer and drier as opposed to over by Hilo where it's rainy and

1:22:04muggy. But from there, from either of those cities, actually, you drive to the volcano area, and

1:22:12there's the volcanoes National Park and you can walk around and see where the

1:22:18Kilauea volcano is like there's a caldera and you can drive down to where

1:22:22the lava flow is flowed right over a road that used to be there and it's

1:22:27pretty spectacular

1:22:28the island of Kauai is amazing and has lots of lush foliage because it's the

1:22:33oldest and so sort of most eroded island and it's got a it's got big Waimea Canyon

1:22:38is beautiful and you can get like go on a on a kayak or canoe and paddle up the

1:22:44the river and hike to waterfalls and stuff like that so that's a beautiful

1:22:48one or you can like go to Maui and just like sit on the beach and hang out which

1:22:53I also like and even on Oahu if you drive through the the tunnel to the

1:22:58windward side of the island you can get away it's not just like an island that

1:23:02is Honolulu if you get outside of Honolulu there's some pretty amazing

1:23:04stuff on the rest of the island. So I have, I don't know, I would say Hawaii is

1:23:10a must-do even if you're far away. It's pretty awesome and I love it. And

1:23:14being on the west coast it's very easy to get there which is also pretty cool.

1:23:18Wren, do you have Hawaiian thoughts? Oh gosh, I haven't been to Hawaii since I

1:23:23was 13 but the one trip that I made I quite loved. You're gonna have to go back.

1:23:29That's all there is to it. I know, you know what, Version America flies out of

1:23:33SFO now so I'm just gonna have to tag it on to the end of an Apple trip. Just go

1:23:37to go to Hawaii instead of go back to the East Coast. This is our this is what

1:23:41we're lucky about. So my you know you living in New England my my sister-in-law

1:23:45lived in New England for a few years and I remember distinctly she came out for a

1:23:53family thing that we we all met for a Christmas in Hawaii and the flight from

1:23:59Boston all the way to get to Hawaii it's just it is impossible. So people in the

1:24:03People in the East Coast, people in Europe, it's sort of impossible to even think about

1:24:07it. Although I have had friends, I had a friend from Germany actually go to Hawaii last year.

1:24:10I've had some friends from the East Coast, my aunt and uncle who have lived most of their

1:24:16lives in the East did it for their daughter got married there in fact. It was pretty great.

1:24:21So I recommend it, but it's a lot easier for us West Coasters because it's just like a

1:24:26four and a half hour flight from here and it's much further from, think about flying

1:24:31to San Francisco and then tack on another four or five hours. And that's how it's a

1:24:34long way, but it's got in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. It's it's out there, but it's

1:24:38great. All right. Well, I think that has that that has done it for this episode of upgrade.

1:24:44Ren, thank you so much for coming on and being my very special guest star.

1:24:49Thanks for having me, Jason. This was a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. It's always always

1:24:52a pleasure to have you on. It's fun to find a change it up when Myke is away. The mice

1:24:56will play when Myke is away and insults all the things that Myke's likes. Yeah, you know,

1:25:01He'll get over it. He's fine. He's tough. I bought him a pen at the Apple store today.

1:25:05He'll be fine. Pens make it all better.

1:25:08It's true.

1:25:10So that wraps it up. You can check our show notes out in your podcast app of choice, of

1:25:13course, or going to relay.fm/upgrade/82. Thank you to our sponsors, PDF Pen Pro from

1:25:20Smile, ITProTV, and MailRoute. You can reach us. Serenity is @Settern on Twitter, S-E-T-T-E-R-N.

1:25:27I am @jstell on Twitter. Myke is @imyke. You can tell him all the terrible things

1:25:31we said about him. And we will see you next week for another episode of

1:25:35Upgrade. Goodbye, everybody!

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