82: Baby Pro


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:15   Welcome to Upgrade from Relay FM. This is episode number 82. Upgrade was brought to you by the good people at

00:00:22   Smile for PDF Pen Pro, IT Pro TV, and Mail Route.

00:00:28   I am Jason Snell. Myke Hurley is on assignment, and instead of Myke being here, I am joined

00:00:35   by my very special guest star, Serenity Caldwell. Hello!

00:00:40   Hello! Thank you for having me on your 82nd episode, Jason.

00:00:44   Welcome to Upgrade. We don't have—we do not have very many guests. It's usually just

00:00:47   me and Myke.

00:00:48   I know I feel very very honored.

00:00:52   This is my second time. You've been enshrined in the Pantheon.

00:00:54   You're one of our special, I guess it's

00:00:57   we brought you one a second time for that

00:01:00   follow-up so this is like your third time on. You may be the leading guest now

00:01:05   for all I know. Oh my gosh. It's possible. I have been upgraded. But you're yes, yes.

00:01:09   But Myke's off

00:01:13   on assignment that is broadcasting, podcasting code

00:01:16   for being on vacation. But we like to just pretend that he's often like the mountains of some far-off region

00:01:24   reporting back for a story that he'll be doing.

00:01:26   He's gone off into the mystical wilderness in search of the perfect pen.

00:01:31   No, I think he's just like sitting on a couch drawing doodles.

00:01:35   But, you know, it's fine. We will soldier on without Myke.

00:01:42   So we got a lot to cover.

00:01:45   last week was the last week was the car cast where I did the entire podcast from

00:01:51   my car

00:01:52   that's right I listen to some of that not entire podcast I guess because because

00:01:56   I got home and so I switched to my proper mic setup at the at the very end

00:02:02   of that but I the I would say in terms of follow-up there was a lot of

00:02:06   positive reaction to that people seem to like it I was concerned and Myke was

00:02:10   concerned that it was not going to be audible, but it sounded okay. Obviously, we wouldn't

00:02:16   do every episode from a car. That would be a different podcast that we would not want

00:02:21   to do. And I was surprised. I only heard from a couple of people who believe that nobody

00:02:26   should ever talk on the phone while they're driving a car. And to those people, I say,

00:02:29   "I salute you. I'm a pretty safe driver. I've never gotten in an accident. I was not driving

00:02:35   as fast, nor was I in the left-hand lane while we were doing the podcast. And when it started

00:02:41   to rain, I slowed down and went even further over to the right to just sort of keep it

00:02:46   real. And then it poured and all the traffic stopped. And yeah, it was an experience, but

00:02:53   it was no different really than all the thoughts that are pinging around in my head when I'm

00:02:57   usually driving that stretch from Cupertino back up to Marin County, which I just did.

00:03:03   I did that. I was back at Apple again today. So there's some follow up is that I was down

00:03:10   there today and I was doing some briefings and picking up an iPad Pro 9.7 inch and an

00:03:19   iPhone SE. So I get to play with those now, which is fun.

00:03:22   So shiny. Rose gold, Jason?

00:03:26   I think it's just gold. I think it's plain old gold, which is fine because I can't see

00:03:29   color very well right so I can light cast of red in the gold

00:03:35   it's kind of lost on me like rose gold would be it I would be a bad person to

00:03:39   receive rose gold things. You were not at the Apple event last week but you

00:03:46   were nearby so did you get a chance to play with the new stuff

00:03:50   afterwards? I was in the periphery no I did not get a chance to play with it and it made me

00:03:54   I'm getting my yeah, I'm getting I'm getting an iPad

00:03:57   9.7 on Thursday at which point yeah

00:04:01   I'm going to do a huge artists review for I'm or good on

00:04:06   9.7 versus 12.9 and also just is the 9.7 a good tool for artists, but I you know Renee Richie, of course

00:04:15   Editor-in-chief of I'm where he got a chance to play with it a lot and he really likes it

00:04:19   I think that there is based on what I saw at the event

00:04:24   event and based off of what I've been reading since I feel like there's a lot

00:04:28   for people who either have been on the fence about buying the big iPad Pro or

00:04:33   just have never bought an iPad before I think there's a lot for them to like in

00:04:38   this new in this new tablet that Apple has created. Yeah there's I mean it's

00:04:42   also the you know it's the classic size right? It is. It's what we think of as an

00:04:48   Yep. You know, if Apple had come out with this iPad in 2010, I think my head would have

00:04:55   exploded. Just completely exploded. Because in 2010, this is what I wanted from the iPad.

00:05:00   This is what I dreamed of being like, "Yes, it's a tablet that I can draw on that's from

00:05:06   Apple that runs iOS apps." And of course, I got the original iPad and I still loved

00:05:11   it very much even though the drawing was not nearly what I wanted from it. But now that

00:05:18   tests. That is available to people. That is available to every 16-year-old kid that can

00:05:23   save enough babysitting money or plead with their parents to get a $600 tablet. That's

00:05:29   cheaper than the Wacom tablet that I bought when I was 14, which is kind of crazy.

00:05:33   Yeah, it's quite a thing. So let's dive into the iPad Pro a little bit. So neither

00:05:42   of us has spent an extended amount of time with it. I have spent a small amount of time

00:05:45   with it at both at Apple and having taken possession of it now. A lot of people had

00:05:53   drawing related questions though because obviously, so we should say it's like the moment that

00:05:58   every Apple related writer waits for which is for Phil Schiller to tweet out a link to

00:06:03   your story which you got for your excellent drawn review of the Apple Pencil on iMore

00:06:09   which is a great idea by the way. That is a perfect idea. How do you do a story like

00:06:14   that a little bit differently and you did it and Phil Schiller tweeted it out which

00:06:18   was pretty awesome.

00:06:19   I still don't believe that that actually happened.

00:06:21   Yeah, he has people.

00:06:22   I'm sure it was just his people.

00:06:24   Oh, I'm sure.

00:06:25   I'm sure.

00:06:26   It wasn't, yeah, it wasn't a really...

00:06:28   No, I don't know.

00:06:29   I am literally speechless.

00:06:31   I have no words.

00:06:32   I just end up with babbles about, you know, when that happened I just kind of stared at

00:06:38   my Twitter account and just went, "Really?

00:06:42   No, that's a fake account, right?

00:06:45   Yeah, fake Phil Schiller.

00:06:46   Yeah.

00:06:46   Shirley.

00:06:48   That's a parody account.

00:06:49   Like the Johnny I. Parody.

00:06:50   It's unsure.

00:06:51   Yeah, exactly.

00:06:51   Exactly.

00:06:52   It's not real.

00:06:53   Or Hair Force One.

00:06:54   It's not real.

00:06:56   But I'm really glad that that resonated with so many people.

00:07:00   And what was really exciting about that review

00:07:03   was not just--

00:07:05   drawing it was a lot of fun.

00:07:06   And I ended up--

00:07:07   that was something that I'd had in the back of my head

00:07:09   for about two, three months, and then

00:07:11   actually putting it to digital paper, as you will,

00:07:15   only happened a couple weeks--

00:07:17   right before we actually launched the review,

00:07:19   where I thought, you know what?

00:07:21   The new iPad is supposed to be coming out soon.

00:07:23   And now that pencil can actually be purchased by people--

00:07:26   you know, when it first came out,

00:07:28   we had to ship Myke a pencil overseas because he

00:07:31   couldn't get it in the UK.

00:07:34   Now people can actually buy the pencil.

00:07:35   This is probably the perfect time for people

00:07:38   to kind of take a second look who were maybe on the fence.

00:07:41   And it just, it did better than my wildest dreams, honestly.

00:07:45   - It goes to show you too, I mean, we so often rush for--

00:07:49   - First! - Rush to be the first post.

00:07:53   I mean, yeah, if you strip it all away,

00:07:55   that's absolutely it.

00:07:56   And it's funny, people may not know,

00:07:58   some people may have noticed that Apple did something

00:08:00   a little bit different with the event last Monday,

00:08:02   which is they still had a group of people who got a product

00:08:04   on the day of the event.

00:08:06   That happens, sometimes I'm in that list,

00:08:08   sometimes I'm not in that list. I wasn't this time. But it used to be, when you were in

00:08:13   that list, you got it and you signed an embargo. And they said, "Okay, a week from now on Monday,

00:08:18   you can write about it." So post at 5 p.m. Pacific on Monday and not before that. So

00:08:24   you have a week to write about it, think about it, and write about it and all of that. And

00:08:28   what they did this time is they just gave it to people and said, "Here you go. There's

00:08:31   no embargo." And I mean, I had that happen to me a couple of times. The original iPad

00:08:35   sort of worked like that with me where I got it before it came out after the first reviews

00:08:38   had dropped and there was no embargo. And no embargo, if you're a journalist, is in

00:08:43   some ways the worst because you end up in that rush where you start to think, "Well,

00:08:47   I should just start writing words now. I'll just write my review now. I haven't used the

00:08:50   product yet, but there's no embargo, so I should just start writing now." And there's

00:08:55   a long way of saying that it goes to show you that sometimes taking the time and thinking

00:08:59   about it. Like you took a lot of time and spent a lot of time with the Apple Pencil,

00:09:04   And then you posted that story and it got great response because it was even after all

00:09:08   of those like several months since the product came out, your perspective was unique and

00:09:14   interesting and the fact that time had passed didn't change that at all.

00:09:17   No, and you know, I think it as you said, I think it actually augmented it because at

00:09:22   that point I had basically been drawing on the iPad Pro and writing on the iPad Pro every

00:09:27   day, give or take a couple of days since November. And I have a huge backlog of sketches and

00:09:34   paper. And it was from that that I was actually able, you know, I did the entire the entire

00:09:39   review was not only done with the pencil, but it was done in paper and I put it together

00:09:43   in in paper and and pixelmator and then uploaded it using a workflow script. So it was all

00:09:50   done and processed and built on the iPad Pro and I wouldn't have been able to trust myself

00:09:56   to lay it out on the iPad. I would have maybe like drawn sketches in November and then I

00:10:00   would have thrown it to my Mac and like done Photoshop to put it into panels. But because

00:10:05   I had been working for so many months at that time, you know, three or four just solely

00:10:10   on the iPad Pro, I felt comfortable enough to say, "Okay, you know what, I'm going to

00:10:14   do this, you know, long form comic style and I'm going to look at, you know, I had a couple

00:10:19   of comics kind of as reference points of like, how do you do this when you want to do kind

00:10:23   of like a pseudo infographic. And how do you position things? Because paper doesn't really

00:10:27   allow you to move things from, from canvas to canvas, you have some limited tools, but

00:10:33   you can't really be like, Oh, yeah, I didn't put this in the right position. So I'm just

00:10:37   going to highlight it and move it. It doesn't, it doesn't quite work as well as you might

00:10:41   otherwise want it to. So I'm really grateful that I that I took the time I was going to

00:10:45   do it like two weeks after release. And then I got sick. And I'm glad that me getting sick

00:10:50   forced me to actually take some time and like focus on the way to use it. But yeah, but

00:10:55   now so many more people are going to get to use the pencil.

00:10:57   Well, this is one of the things I think is really also interesting is that your timing

00:11:00   ended up being great because it came right in advance of this. And if we think back to

00:11:05   that shortage, like you said of us, like, you know, you bought a pencil and send it

00:11:09   to Myke because Myke couldn't get a pencil. And so many people were frustrated by it.

00:11:14   And I have to wonder if this was maybe even apples, even apples sort of anticipated this,

00:11:19   which is we gotta get the pencil up to speed. We're not gonna be able to make

00:11:24   enough of them right out of the gate, but the iPad Pro 12.9-inch is also not

00:11:29   gonna be the highest volume product in the iPad line at all. So whether it was

00:11:35   planned or not, the bottom line is they got to ship the pencil and get supplies

00:11:42   filling in in retail for a few months before they launched this 9.7-inch

00:11:49   iPad Pro, which I would think is going to sell way more Apple pencils than the 12.9

00:11:54   inch iPad Pro was ever going to sell because it is cheaper and it is the understandable

00:12:00   size, the size we all expect for an iPad. And so it's really good timing, not just for

00:12:04   your review but for the fact that they seem to now be able to make Apple pencils fast

00:12:09   enough to meet this new demand because I think it's going to be huge demand for that pencil

00:12:13   from now on.

00:12:14   I would be really shocked if we didn't

00:12:16   see the pencil go into shortage again after the iPad gets

00:12:19   the release.

00:12:20   I hope they've just been stocking them.

00:12:21   More pencils.

00:12:22   More pencils.

00:12:24   We need to stock.

00:12:25   Yeah, sadly, I didn't go--

00:12:26   I should have planned in anticipation

00:12:28   and just bought a bunch of pencils.

00:12:30   But no, I think this is going to be huge for people

00:12:34   who have been interested in trying out the Apple Pencil.

00:12:37   It's funny because every time I take my iPad out--

00:12:40   I was traveling, of course, for the Apple event.

00:12:42   And before that, we both were at the Yosemite conference,

00:12:45   and I had to fly out for there.

00:12:46   Every time I've been in the airport,

00:12:48   I usually doodle while waiting for flights,

00:12:50   just because it's a nice de-stressing opportunity.

00:12:54   And every single time, people lean over and be like,

00:12:56   what tablet is that?

00:12:58   What stylus is that?

00:12:59   And I'm like, it's an iPad.

00:13:00   It's a pencil.

00:13:01   And they're like, is that that?

00:13:02   I didn't realize it was so good.

00:13:04   It really-- the thing about the pencil that really,

00:13:08   to this four months later sticks with me is you can't really anticipate or believe how

00:13:16   good it is until you see it in person because I feel like we have been trained for years

00:13:22   to assume that, you know, when someone says they have the best digital stylist yet, which

00:13:26   I'm using air quotes on this podcast, which I think is hilarious.

00:13:29   Yeah, podcast air quotes.

00:13:31   Yeah, podcast air quotes.

00:13:32   When somebody says that, you roll your eyes a little bit and go like, "Okay, but yeah,

00:13:37   I've tried a bunch of styluses and they're good,

00:13:40   but nothing really replicates the sense of a normal pen.

00:13:43   Like you get to a certain, if you're on like a one to 10 scale,

00:13:46   you get to about 7.5 with 98% of the high end stylist market.

00:13:53   Even the Surface Pro, you know,

00:13:55   I did a lot of sketching with the Surface Pro 3 when it first came out being

00:14:00   like,

00:14:00   maybe I should get a Surface because I really want a portable sketchbook.

00:14:04   And even the Surface Pro is just not--

00:14:08   the N-Trig series doesn't feel natural.

00:14:13   And the pencil, in contrast, is one

00:14:15   of those crazy wacky things where, especially

00:14:18   when you pair it with something like either notes or paper,

00:14:21   because those software tools are so good,

00:14:25   using the pencil feels almost seamless.

00:14:27   Like, no, it doesn't feel like paper.

00:14:29   We've talked about this a little bit.

00:14:31   It doesn't feel like paper on glass.

00:14:32   And they're not going to be able to do that until they figure out some magic wizardry with haptics.

00:14:37   But the actual quality of your line work and the quality of your handwriting, I don't know if you've found this, but for me, it's very, very similar to how I draw on paper.

00:14:48   Oh, yeah. Yeah, my handwriting is just as exactly as terrible as it is in real life.

00:14:54   But it is exact. Like, I did a thing where I took some notes on a virtual sheet of paper using, I think, OneNote, or maybe it was just the Notes app.

00:15:03   And I looked at it later and I was like, "Yep, that is it. That's what a notebook in my college binder would have been like, just as incomprehensible, but no different."

00:15:15   And the experience of writing was no different.

00:15:17   It feels very natural, which is totally what Apple is going for with that product.

00:15:23   Oh yeah, I mean, it got a lot of flack in the early days about being, "Oh, the pencil is too long!"

00:15:30   Or, "Why doesn't the pencil have an eraser?" Or, "The pencil have buttons!"

00:15:34   And as somebody, you know, I've drawn with Wacom tablets, I've drawn with the Surface Pro pens, and N-Trig pens,

00:15:40   and too many iPad styluses to count.

00:15:43   Oh yeah.

00:15:44   All of them, especially the ones with buttons,

00:15:47   just feel terrible in your hand after about an hour.

00:15:49   You get cramps.

00:15:51   You'll pinch your skin on buttons.

00:15:53   It's not a comfortable drawing experience.

00:15:55   And the pencil, would I love an undo button?

00:15:58   Sure.

00:15:59   Would it be nice to have an eraser on the end of my pencil?

00:16:04   Yeah, it might be nice.

00:16:05   But overall, I think they made the perfect design

00:16:07   compromises on that thing.

00:16:10   It feels so good in your hand, and it feels so good

00:16:12   to draw and write with that I like I am really hoping that they boost this up even further

00:16:19   when they start selling the the baby pro as I've been calling it internally at I'm more

00:16:24   I really hope they almost do like Apple store demos where they really like encourage they

00:16:28   put out more pencils I think they had one or two in the Apple store near my house but

00:16:32   I really hope they just put pencils all over the table for people to draw with it could

00:16:36   be like at the bank they can just have that little metal chain that comes out oh my gosh

00:16:41   the 21st century metal chain.

00:16:44   Okay well we've got a lot more to talk about the iPad Pro but I want to take

00:16:48   our first sponsor break and let people know about

00:16:51   this is the part where Myke would come in and explain things but he's not here so

00:16:54   it's gonna be me telling you that this episode of Upgrade is brought to you by

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00:18:18   PDFs make the world go round. I do this all the time. I am sending PDFs to Myke

00:18:23   and Steven at Relay. My wife is making PDFs for our invoices, for our business.

00:18:27   This is, you know, it's funny, we were just talking about drawing things on

00:18:33   using the Apple Pencil, you know, what is the paper of the 21st century? I gotta say

00:18:38   it's kind of PDFs. This is... perhaps we need to start turning all our sketches

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00:18:56   Smilesoftware.com/upgrade. Okay, we got some questions in the ask upgrade box

00:19:03   this week. People knew that you were going to be on and they wanted

00:19:08   and they had some questions and a lot of them unsurprisingly are about the pencil

00:19:12   and about the iPad and how they interact. First one is fascinating it's like a

00:19:18   little it's almost like a litmus test. It says, "As Serenity is an avid Apple pencil

00:19:23   user. Is she tempted by the 9.7 inch iPad Pro for better portability? This is the big

00:19:30   question, right? What are your feelings now? Now that you have the choice of the 12.9 or

00:19:35   the 9.7, what are you thinking in terms of what you're going to use?

00:19:38   Oh man, that is a choice. So if you had asked me this back in November before I got the

00:19:45   big iPad Pro, I would have gotten the 9.7 inch iPad Pro in a heartbeat. Because I just

00:19:51   So I thought the 12.9 was gigantic and way too-- I was like, this is-- this feels like

00:19:55   a tray to carry cookies out onto.

00:19:58   It doesn't feel like a computer.

00:20:00   But in the intervening months, having forced myself to use it as my main computer and also

00:20:07   having unfortunately drowned my MacBook Air-- and so it is now my only laptop-related computer--

00:20:16   I can't see myself going to 9.7 for the things that I currently use my iPad for now.

00:20:24   And the really, for me, the really interesting thing on this scale is that before the iPad

00:20:30   Pro, I had pretty much given up on my iPad.

00:20:33   And I feel so horrible saying this, especially on Relay.

00:20:36   It's like Federico is judging me.

00:20:39   But I know I, I just had stopped you like my iPad would sit there and I would use it

00:20:45   for the occasional, you know, if I had to write a how-to about the iPad, but I wasn't

00:20:50   really using it. I would occasionally read on it. I have an iPad Mini that's, you know,

00:20:55   sitting in my bedroom that supposedly I use for reading ebooks, but I just, I don't touch

00:21:00   it because I've had, you know, I have the 6s and I was using the 6s Plus for a while

00:21:05   and that big screen, I was just like, well, I can do, you know, pretty much everything

00:21:09   on the big iPhone and carrying around the 9.7 inch iPad and a MacBook Air is too heavy

00:21:15   And so I had just it had wound up on the shelf and I felt so bad

00:21:19   I'm like this beautiful iPad Air 2 it's such a good computer and I've been doing nothing with it

00:21:24   And when the iPad Pro came out

00:21:26   I was deeply afraid that that was gonna happen with the iPad Pro that I was gonna buy this $1,100

00:21:33   $1,200 tablet and then just put it on the shelf again

00:21:36   so I was really

00:21:39   Like, it was very much a like, I need to use this.

00:21:42   I need to prove to myself that I'm not putting down this money in vain just for kicks and

00:21:47   that it's going to sit on the shelf.

00:21:49   The pencil honestly was a huge factor in why I didn't put down the iPad Pro, but also forcing

00:21:56   myself to actually relearn my workflows, which I had been resisting for the longest time

00:22:01   with my 9.7 inch iPad.

00:22:04   Learning all of those workflows and getting comfortable with the idea of the iPad as my

00:22:07   only computer on the road, really sort of reinvented how I used an iPad.

00:22:13   And once I got comfortable with the 9.

00:22:15   Or the 12.9 inch iPad, I found it really, really hard to go back to friends 9.7 inch

00:22:22   iPads.

00:22:23   And even, you know, I have the Air 2.

00:22:24   And I even tried to move my workflow over to the 9.7 inch iPad Air in the in the thought

00:22:31   of like, well, maybe there will be a smaller iPad Pro in the future.

00:22:34   And I found it very difficult because there's just something really nice about having almost

00:22:39   full screen side by side apps on the iPad Pro.

00:22:42   The extra workspace, especially when you're doing things that go beyond drawing and email

00:22:47   communication and the occasional video.

00:22:52   When you're trying to do heavy duty productivity, I really appreciate the extra screen space.

00:22:58   And also I do a lot of photo editing at iMore, especially when I'm doing for hero images

00:23:04   or I'm taking device shots.

00:23:07   And once I figured out a photo workflow that worked well for me with the iPad Pro, the

00:23:14   idea of moving that to a smaller screen meant losing space for my tools and space for me

00:23:20   to be able to pan my canvas around where I just have to zoom in and do more panning than

00:23:26   I would otherwise have to do with the 12 inch tablet. So that's the long winded version of saying I am tempted by the 9.7 inch iPad Pro I did get one I got the base, the base 599 Wi Fi model in rose gold just to try it as a drawing tablet and I'm going to be doing sort of a versus

00:23:47   artistry review. But I overall I think I'm sticking with my 12.9

00:23:52   I'm with you. I am intrigued by the stuff that the 9.7 inch has to offer, and I think

00:23:59   for most people it's probably the right choice. But, and I'm right there with you

00:24:03   in thinking that back when the 12.9 came out of thinking, well, come on, you know, this

00:24:09   is interesting, but the real winner is going to be when these features make it to the regular

00:24:12   iPad size. But since I, since I used as listeners of this show, no, since I started using, I

00:24:19   the review model. I had that for a month or so and then in mid to late December, I just

00:24:27   bought one. It was just like, "No, no, this is it. This is it." And my MacBook Air is

00:24:33   still around and I actually use it occasionally when there's something very specific that

00:24:37   I need to do with it. But it doesn't get used very often. It's sort of just been replaced

00:24:45   by this 12.9-inch iPad Pro.

00:24:49   And so, yeah, side-by-side apps or even SlideOver

00:24:53   or the little or the narrow and the wide,

00:24:58   sort of what two-thirds, one-thirds view,

00:24:59   there's so much flexibility with that screen.

00:25:01   It's such a big, beautiful screen.

00:25:02   It's very hard to give that up.

00:25:04   And although I really appreciate the lightness

00:25:07   of the 9.7-inch iPads because, boy.

00:25:12   - Oh, gosh, it feels like,

00:25:14   does feel like you're holding nothing. Yeah, especially after you spend some

00:25:18   time building up your iPad muscles with a 12.9 inch, you go back to the 9.7

00:25:23   and the new iPad Pro feels just like the old iPad Air 2. It's like there's nothing

00:25:28   there, which is great, but then I look at the screen and I look at the

00:25:31   keyboard. I have issues with the on-screen keyboard of the iPad

00:25:36   Pro, but when I go back to a regular size iPad and I look at that keyboard, I

00:25:40   I literally think, "What, are you kidding?" There are no numbers or symbols here, and

00:25:46   I'm going to have to keep toggling all of the little shift buttons to get all the characters

00:25:51   I need? Come on, right? So yeah, it's not going to happen for me, but I think we're

00:26:00   outliers, I suspect. I think that 12.9 is always going to be a product for a very specific

00:26:06   kind of user that you know we're gonna be in that happy niche of you know 10% or

00:26:11   15% or whatever that percentage is but not you know not 60% of iPads and that's

00:26:16   fine.

00:26:17   Well it's it's quite literally a legitimately a pro product like the 12.9

00:26:22   inch iPad is really for people who need the extra screen space and really need

00:26:29   the the larger iPad and in my opinion are probably choosing to choose to take

00:26:34   that as their only portable device as opposed to dual wielding an iPad or a

00:26:40   laptop and that's granted that's still in sort of like a semi pro category. The

00:26:45   big thing I think you touched on it about the keyboard I think is really

00:26:49   important because one of the one of the concerns I had with a 9.7 inch iPad Pro

00:26:55   especially having after having gotten used to the full-sized beautiful

00:26:59   keyboard that exists both on the smart keyboard and on the Logitech create which

00:27:04   which is a third party smart connector keyboard.

00:27:06   - Yeah.

00:27:07   - I haven't gotten a chance to personally type

00:27:09   on the 9.7 inch smart keyboard,

00:27:12   but boy, I watched Rene type on that thing.

00:27:15   And I had him specifically take some like side-by-side

00:27:19   videos and I'm looking at that and I'm like,

00:27:22   my fingers are pretty tiny,

00:27:23   but that still looks awfully cramped and awfully not fun

00:27:27   to type on.

00:27:28   - It's funny.

00:27:29   So, so that keyboard, they've tried,

00:27:34   They tried really hard to try and make the minimization of the standard, like the QWERTY keys as limited as possible, I guess I would say.

00:27:45   So, like, the iPad Pro 12.9-inch Smart Cover keyboard has sort of gaps on the sides. The gaps are totally gone.

00:27:55   Like, it goes right up to the edge with the keys. And the modifier keys are the ones that get shrunken down the most.

00:28:01   you know, your returns and shifts that are usually double or triple wide of a standard key are all kind of smooshed to narrower,

00:28:10   because they're trying to minimize those sizes and give more room for the regular letter keys.

00:28:16   But in the end, you know, yeah, it's shrunken down.

00:28:19   And some people, I think it really is going to come down to something that most people aren't even aware of, which is how they type.

00:28:26   know, how can they adapt spatially to the location of keys or how locked in are they?

00:28:34   And I know that my typing style, I am locked into the location of the keys. And I tried

00:28:41   with a netbook at one point to type on a shrunken down keyboard and it was just a disaster.

00:28:45   I like, I couldn't, and I couldn't adapt. And it also ruined my regular typing because

00:28:50   then I was completely at sea about where the keys were going to be. And so I think for

00:28:54   for some people it's going to be fantastic and for other people it's

00:28:57   going to be not optimal experience but people are going to have to go I mean I

00:29:02   say this about a lot of these products but this is one of those products that

00:29:05   you would be much better off going to an Apple store and trying and seeing if

00:29:09   it's something you're gonna like or making sure that you you know and being

00:29:12   emotionally prepared that you might need to return it if it doesn't if it doesn't

00:29:16   work for you that said it's so much lighter than the equivalent product on

00:29:21   the big iPad Pro and I think that is a win for it because I don't really love

00:29:26   the keyboard cover on the big iPad Pro because it is so heavy because it is

00:29:30   just because of the size of it and and the the span of the keyboard and this

00:29:34   one because it's way scaled down is a lot lighter and it does not feel as much

00:29:40   of a burden and and so I think on that level it's way less intrusive if you can

00:29:47   get used to typing on it which is you know I think some people are gonna love

00:29:51   it and then other people are going to be like, "No, I can't at all because it's not a full-size

00:29:56   keyboard."

00:29:57   Yeah, it's a trade-off. You know, if you're not going to be spending your entire day typing

00:30:02   on the iPad or if you feel comfortable being able to use software keyboards occasionally,

00:30:07   then that might be the perfect solution for you. But if you're an avid typer, you're going

00:30:12   to need to try it.

00:30:13   Yeah. And so I talked to Apple today about a bunch of stuff and it's a background briefing

00:30:19   so I'm not going to like give direct quotes and tell you who I talked to, but I got some

00:30:24   of this stuff and I asked about the smart connector and I think it's really interesting

00:30:28   that I said, "Am I missing something or are there only three products that use the smart

00:30:33   connector?" and they said, "Nope, you're not missing anything." There literally are these

00:30:37   two keyboard covers and that Logitech Create keyboard. And so this is the real question

00:30:43   is what is going on and apparently there are some other things that are in development.

00:30:48   it'll be interesting to see, but there's been, I feel like there's a real space

00:30:52   between the keyboard cover and, I mean, when we were at the Yosemite conference,

00:30:56   I saw you there with your Logitech Create on your iPad Pro, and it basically

00:31:00   turns it into a laptop. It's kind of amazing what it does. The downside of

00:31:04   that is that it's sort of locked in and you gotta kind of do some stuff to pop

00:31:08   it back out. It's so heavy. You know, it's not even the fact that you have to pop it

00:31:12   out because I figured out a good, like, one-two movement for that. Little kung-fu for the iPad Pro.

00:31:17   Yeah, well, and the thing, the Create is such a heavy cover,

00:31:21   or like a sturdy cover, that I can--

00:31:22   I could fling it across the room with my iPad in there,

00:31:26   and it would probably protect my iPad.

00:31:28   But it is heavy.

00:31:29   It turns it into a laptop that basically weighs,

00:31:33   I think, just under three pounds.

00:31:35   And I haven't carried a three-pound laptop in a while.

00:31:39   But I haven't-- the trade-off, the beauty of how comfortable

00:31:43   those keys are, it's basically a full-sized keyboard

00:31:46   with a function row and all of the functions map to iPad functions.

00:31:50   You can, you know, you can get Spotlight search really quickly or you can go back

00:31:53   to your home screen. That's really nice.

00:31:56   I really...

00:31:57   That whole row of keys that's not on the Apple keyboard.

00:32:00   I know. And it, that makes me so sad because Apple actually had room on that

00:32:04   keyboard for a function row and they chose not to.

00:32:08   But, you know, that that keeps me with that awful keyboard case.

00:32:12   That and the fact that it covers the iPad's back.

00:32:14   Right, so I keep thinking there's got to be a middle ground, right?

00:32:18   There's got to be a product that is not quite as intrusive as the Create, but that is not

00:32:23   the smart keyboard cover.

00:32:26   And I don't know what that product is or if it will ever exist.

00:32:28   But you would think there could be something in the middle there.

00:32:32   There are enough smart enterprising Apple third party manufacturers that I would hope

00:32:38   that someone is working on something that's essentially the smart keyboard with a home

00:32:42   row and a back cover. Yeah, something that you can pop in and pop back out fairly

00:32:48   quickly. There was one other piece of feedback that I wanted to get now before

00:32:52   we go into our next segment that was from listener Justin that is

00:32:57   related to the keyboard thing which is, "Can you type with the iPad Pro Smart Cover

00:33:00   on your lap?" I don't know if you've tried this with the iPad Pro. I have.

00:33:06   And the answer there is yes, question mark, but it's kind of tenuous. I've done it, but it's not like

00:33:15   like Serenity's Create keyboard, where then it's just rock solid. It's like you're using a laptop.

00:33:22   I love it. And with, I don't find it comfortable. I find it doable, but you kind of have to brace

00:33:29   yourself and provide some extra stability in your lap to keep it from tilting over because

00:33:38   it's not like what you expect from a laptop. But it can be done. I feel like this is what

00:33:44   all the people who used the Surface said a similar thing. It's like, "Yeah, kinda."

00:33:51   But it's not ideal. I don't prefer to work with an iPad Pro Smart Cover in my lap, typing

00:33:58   like I would with my laptop, I would do something else. I would get my laptop, I would move

00:34:02   somewhere else, or actually last week I wrote an article, my column for Macworld last week,

00:34:06   I wrote just on the glass of the iPad Pro screen and just did that. And actually, you

00:34:11   know, it was pretty good. It worked pretty well. And, you know, similarly, I have to

00:34:17   sort of like find a position with my, with my, like my knees where I can have the right

00:34:22   angle of the iPad and my hands on the keyboard to get that to work. But, you know, I was

00:34:28   able to do that and honestly I would rather do that I think than use the smart cover just

00:34:32   because it's a little too rickety. It's rickety on a desk. That's the thing that I don't like about

00:34:38   it is it even when you're typing on it what feels like a solid surface you get a lot of vibration

00:34:43   and you get a lot of movement. It's true. And again I understand the compromise because you

00:34:48   want a thin keyboard and you want it to be functional but you don't want it to be super

00:34:53   bulky and the create is definitely bulky. It is definitely not a slim design on an otherwise

00:35:02   beautiful iPad Pro, but I'm okay with that.

00:35:06   I think maybe I haven't spent much time with the 9.7 so I'll have to check back for Justin

00:35:10   on that. My guess is, because like I said about the weight, because everything is lighter,

00:35:16   that the 9.7 might actually feel a lot more stable on your lap. Although again you're

00:35:22   going to be typing, it's, you know, that smaller keyboard, so you're going to have to see.

00:35:27   My go-to right now is an external Bluetooth keyboard. I'm actually using the Magic keyboard

00:35:31   right now, and a stand. And that's my go-to for the iPad Pro if I'm writing something,

00:35:37   is I prefer just using that, just using the external keyboard. Where it becomes a problem

00:35:41   is in those situations where I want the traditional, you know, "Why they call a laptop a laptop?"

00:35:47   I actually want it sitting in my lap, and I don't have a solution that feels super comfortable.

00:35:52   Create from Logitech would be the best one right now. I also wonder if, I guess

00:35:57   you can't, I was thinking could you like, I don't know, could you like use

00:36:02   tape or something and stick a 9.7 inch iPad Pro inside that Logitech Create?

00:36:07   Yeah you could. It's the same connector. Yeah it is the same connector. The problem is the sheath.

00:36:13   So the one thing that I don't like about the Create is that it only has one fixed

00:36:18   angle and the way that works is basically having the iPad snapped in.

00:36:22   However, yes, I can't say anything for certain, but Logitech's website certainly hints that

00:36:30   Baby Pro users will be very happy soon.

00:36:34   Well, I mean, that was the hint that I got from Apple too, is that there are other products

00:36:38   in the pipeline that use the smart connector and they would know because it's part of the

00:36:42   Made for iPhone program.

00:36:45   get access to the smart connector it's like using getting access to lightning

00:36:48   or or the old iPod connectors you go through Apple and they've got a spec and

00:36:53   developer agreement and so more is coming and that'll be that'll be good to

00:36:57   see I'd imagine it's going to be just like we've seen with some other stuff

00:37:00   including from Apple but there will be way more variety and accessories for the

00:37:03   9.7 inch iPad Pro than for the 12.9 like you can only get three colors of cover

00:37:08   for the 12.9 and the 9.7 is like we have all the colors. So many colors. I'm

00:37:14   I'm jealous. I'm seriously jealous. I want a colored cover and I can't get one.

00:37:18   Yeah, marigolds. They're so nice.

00:37:20   I know. Mine is gray. It is gray and boring.

00:37:23   Yeah, that's the downside. Gray or white smart keyboard?

00:37:26   Or white. Yeah.

00:37:27   No, no, no thank you.

00:37:29   It's after Labor Day. I can't. I just can't.

00:37:32   Yeah, we've wrapped back around.

00:37:34   The one thing I will say about the Baby Pro is that you should be able to use the 12.9 inch smart keyboard with the 9.7 inch iPad Pro.

00:37:43   iPad Pro. It'll look a little weird. Super weird, but it should work. I'm going to try

00:37:47   that out. I haven't had a chance, but it should work because it's all the same, right?

00:37:51   Yeah, yeah. You just couldn't really use it as a cover.

00:37:54   No, as a cover it wouldn't work well, but if you're looking for like, "I need a light

00:37:58   smart connector keyboard, but I don't want to use something as tiny as the 9.7-inch processor,"

00:38:04   it's possible. Yeah, don't do that. You totally could do

00:38:06   that, but I don't think I can recommend it. Okay, we've got even more to talk about.

00:38:13   about the iPad and other stuff that was launched last week, but I want to take a break to tell

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00:41:24   Upgrade.

00:41:25   Hooray!

00:41:26   I got a UCSD mention in there.

00:41:28   I always like that.

00:41:29   I don't think they were pandering to me when they stuck it in there. That was actually one of their examples and I've raised my eyebrow and said, "Why UCSD you say?"

00:41:37   It's pretty great. People never know where, like my college is not one that anybody's ever heard of so that's kind of fun to have it be referenced there.

00:41:47   I think they shot part of like Attack of the Killer Tomatoes on my college campus. That's like our claim to fame. It's not very famous.

00:41:55   So, Lister Krister wrote in and wanted to ask how the drawing on the 9.7 and 12.9 models

00:42:05   vary, if anything. Is there any lag issues? Are there any differences? I don't know.

00:42:09   It seems to me like they're basically identical. Is that what you've heard or seen?

00:42:14   Yeah, so I, again, just like the—

00:42:16   You're going to defer to Rene. So you're in the room with it, but Rene would not let

00:42:19   you touch it. Or if he did, you couldn't admit it.

00:42:22   Yeah, I could not.

00:42:25   He did some extensive tests at my request,

00:42:28   and it looks identical, honestly.

00:42:30   It doesn't look like there's any difference,

00:42:33   there's any differentiation in lag,

00:42:35   any differentiation in mapping.

00:42:38   I think you'll get just as smooth lines and just

00:42:40   as nice handwriting as you would on the bigger model.

00:42:44   I can't say this 100% for sure, because I still

00:42:46   want to run some tests when I get my model on Thursday,

00:42:49   but that is definitely something that I'm

00:42:51   to be looking into.

00:42:52   Great. Yeah, I mean, my impression is the same, which is I think this is intended to

00:42:56   be an identical experience, but I'm sure you will, you will ferret out any changes as you

00:43:01   go. If anybody can, you can. Also wanted to know, listener Mark wrote in to say, "Serenity,

00:43:09   will we see more iPad experiment and art articles from you in the future?" Do you have, you

00:43:15   have an inclination to get, you have some ideas about where you're going with your,

00:43:19   your iPad and pencil stuff?

00:43:21   - Oh yes, okay, so we'll definitely see some more articles.

00:43:24   I'm actually, I have one coming out this week

00:43:26   that's the best handwriting apps.

00:43:28   I have been testing them for the last two weeks.

00:43:30   - Oh nice.

00:43:31   - So we've got some really, really good ones in there.

00:43:34   And then I'm also going to be doing,

00:43:36   as I think I mentioned earlier in the podcast,

00:43:37   an artist's review of the 9.7 inch iPad and a head-to-head.

00:43:42   I might also revisit my Microsoft Surface comparison,

00:43:47   hitting the surface head-to-head against the 9.7 inch iPad and seeing if there's

00:43:53   any change, any difference.

00:43:55   Okay, so a lot for Mark and the rest of us to look forward to.

00:43:59   Oh yeah. Very nice. I thought as much, but that was a good opportunity to plug that.

00:44:03   Can you tell me the story about you drowning your MacBook Air? I don't

00:44:06   think I've heard this one and I'm horrified.

00:44:08   What did you do? What did you do?

00:44:11   This was the mistake where Serenity has been a college professor this

00:44:16   semester, which has been really exciting and a big sort of opening of like things I know

00:44:23   how to do and things I'm still learning how to do.

00:44:25   Unfortunately one of my office hour sessions involved me bringing both my iPad Pro and

00:44:31   my MacBook Air to consult with a student.

00:44:35   And we were working on some HTML and unfortunately there happened to be an open water bottle

00:44:40   sitting right in between both models.

00:44:44   So I can't say for sure that the iPad Pro knocked over the water bottle onto the MacBook

00:44:49   Air, but essentially at one point, there was no water on my MacBook and then there was

00:44:54   water on my MacBook.

00:44:56   So sadly, and the worst part, it wasn't even a lot of water.

00:45:01   It wasn't, you know, I've seen horrible, you know, complete drownings where you just like

00:45:06   give up and you say, "Well, that's gone.

00:45:08   Everything's ruined now."

00:45:10   was just enough water for me to be slightly concerned, but not so much that I was like,

00:45:16   oh, no, everything, you know, everything is awful. So but they but because I was at the

00:45:22   college that I'm teaching at currently, I had nothing but some paper towels from the ladies

00:45:28   room to try and mop it up with so they were and I just, there was no way to properly save it. And

00:45:33   it booted that evening, and I turned it off. And then the next morning, I could not get it to plug

00:45:38   again and it's it's been sitting sadly on my yeah yeah poor thing it was just

00:45:44   over a year old alright Pete Macbook Air I might take him I might take it to a to

00:45:50   a Genius Bar at some point to see just how terrible the damage is but I'm pretty

00:45:55   sad that Macbook Airs have been my computer since 2010 Wow feels like the

00:46:01   end of a legacy. I, I, I, yeah, I feel really uncomfortable now. I feel really bad.

00:46:08   And so, because I love, I love my MacBook Air too, even though I don't use it like I

00:46:11   used to. It's like I'm very attached to those computers and, and you know, this is not the

00:46:16   first time I think many podcast listeners have heard about somebody spilling water on

00:46:19   a MacBook Air and ruining it, Casey Liss. But, uh, boy, it happens, right? I mean, that's,

00:46:25   why have we not, see, this is something that maybe Apple needs to work on. Does the, I

00:46:29   I don't know if the MacBook, the adjective-less MacBook, is any different in this regard,

00:46:35   but at some point, shouldn't they have some kind of guard under the keyboard to prevent

00:46:41   a little water spill from destroying an entire computer?

00:46:44   Shouldn't that happen?

00:46:45   I would really hope so.

00:46:47   It can't be that, well, it's going to be difficult because they haven't done it yet.

00:46:51   But you know, I don't even think it was the keyboard that ruined me.

00:46:53   I think it was the rear ports where the fans and the exhaust,

00:46:57   Because I think a couple of water droplets got in the back there and then I just couldn't

00:47:01   clean them out because that hinge, that hinge is right there.

00:47:05   But yeah, I really hope computers are so important and you know, they've gotten very good at

00:47:14   making iPads and iPhones less vulnerable to catastrophic spills.

00:47:20   It helps very much that there are very few places for water to enter inside your iPad

00:47:24   or iPhone, short of dunking it into, say, a large body of water or a toilet.

00:47:30   You're usually safe if you accidentally get some water droplets on the screen.

00:47:35   But with a Mac, I just feel if it's anything more than like six or seven droplets of rain,

00:47:40   you're screwed.

00:47:41   You're sad.

00:47:42   Well, I'm glad you got your iPad Pro to help you through this.

00:47:46   Me too!

00:47:47   Oh, gosh.

00:47:48   Yeah, it has been an adventure in "Can I live without a portable laptop?"

00:47:54   And so far the answer is yes, although I definitely missed it a little bit when covering the event

00:47:59   last week.

00:48:00   Yeah, well that was one of the times when I actually got the MacBook Air out.

00:48:04   A couple people asked about this, like, "Do I cover those events with the iPad Pro now?"

00:48:09   And the answer is absolutely not, and it's largely because of my live setup.

00:48:16   Not only is putting that, like we said, putting the iPad Pro and the smart keyboard in your

00:48:21   lap or iPad Pro with any kind of other keyboard in your lap, rickety at best.

00:48:26   But I also like to take pictures and tweet some of them out during the live event.

00:48:32   And I have no way of doing that in an iOS workflow at this point.

00:48:35   I guess I could be constantly switching memory cards and importing photos and all that, but

00:48:41   I've got an aperture tethered shooting scripting workflow that is super set up and it's just

00:48:51   it's all ready to go and so you put those two things together that the all

00:48:55   the photography stuff is already built in I've already built it all and it

00:48:59   gives me a stable place to type in my lap while I'm sitting in those super

00:49:03   cramped seats at town hall and yeah absolutely I just it actually felt weird

00:49:07   though that I went down there and I didn't have my iPad Pro in my bag I only

00:49:11   had the MacBook Air and that was a weird feeling because I've kind of come to be

00:49:16   it to expect the iPad Pro to always be there and occasionally also the MacBook

00:49:20   Didn't happen. Yeah, and they're still just too big to carry both of them around.

00:49:25   Although that was my folly. I carried both around and, you know, sad.

00:49:29   I do that too. I do that too. My bag doesn't like that, right? Because bags aren't really made for two devices of that size.

00:49:34   They expect you to only have the one. I also tried the, I should mention, I tried that adapter, that USB, the powered USB adapter this week.

00:49:42   adapter this week and I wrote about that on six colors which is one more piece by

00:49:48   the way your your your I'm more colleague Renee Ritchie is the is the

00:49:52   person who started the applause for the the announcement by Phil Schiller that

00:49:55   podcast microphones can now be powered by this adapter because it gets power

00:49:59   from the lightning port

00:50:01   I was so so happy to hear a shout out to podcasters hopefully that means dual

00:50:05   stream audio is coming in I know that's the other the other shoe to drop is some

00:50:11   solution and software so you can capture audio on one app while another app is

00:50:15   also using the audio input and hopefully that will happen but it is I was able to

00:50:19   attach a USB ethernet adapter and although there is no user interface for

00:50:23   Ethernet on iOS it worked so obviously like if you have a DHCP network and you

00:50:29   attach an ethernet adapter and you turn off your Wi-Fi it works like it just

00:50:35   figures out ok I've got this ethernet device I guess I'll use that as my

00:50:39   network interface and I went through settings and I was looking is there some

00:50:42   like special thing that has appeared or something

00:50:44   nope there was no sign that I was on the network at all in any of the settings

00:50:48   apps or anything but I was on the network so for all I know that's been

00:50:53   the case for a while now but I'd never really even thought to try that and it

00:50:58   totally worked and I was able to power the Yeti USB microphone that couldn't be

00:51:03   powered before. I was able to power my USB Pre 2, the USB box that I use that I attach

00:51:11   my XLR microphones to, like the one I'm talking in now. That one worked with it just fine.

00:51:18   So yeah, and more to the point, it powers your device while you're using an external

00:51:26   device. This isn't just about stunts, too. It's also about stuff that could be powered

00:51:30   by the old adapter. The old adapter was just a USB plug, right? So, like Marco

00:51:34   Armand, it kind of came up with this thing that I used too, which is you could do

00:51:39   like a live audio stream, like we do at Relay and the Incomparable, and you could

00:51:42   do it from an iPad or an iPhone using this USB audio device. It was super

00:51:47   clever. You attach the audio box to your mixer and then you just push a button on

00:51:52   this one app on your iPhone or your iPad and you're streaming live from anywhere.

00:51:57   a really very clever idea. The problem is you better have a full battery when you start

00:52:02   that because it has to do all of that work without being plugged in because there's

00:52:07   no power. And this new adapter, that goes away. Like, you can do stuff that involves

00:52:13   USB. Like, if you want to work all day on an iPad Pro attached to your special corporate

00:52:18   Ethernet network, let's say, you could do it because it's also receiving power. So,

00:52:23   know, before it would have been like, "Well, I gotta use Ethernet, but I gotta let my battery

00:52:28   run down while I do it, and then I can not use Ethernet and plug it in." Anyway, so I was very

00:52:32   happy to get that adapter last week, and it does everything Phil Schiller said it would do.

00:52:36   Stephanie Hauschlager Thanks, Phil Schiller.

00:52:41   David Tashroud Yeah, it was nice. Well,

00:52:42   something I think for all of us too who have used those USB adapters in the past and felt like we

00:52:48   we were getting away with something. Like, well, you can, but it's only a matter of time

00:52:54   before Apple realizes that this is stupid.

00:52:56   They take it away, yeah.

00:52:57   And they take it away. You don't want to do that.

00:53:01   And now they've made it a good reason or a good mill ground for people who do want to

00:53:06   use non-camera related activities on their adapters. Have you tried the new USB-C 29-watt

00:53:16   adapter because I'm waiting for my cord to try that out. I haven't. I haven't. I

00:53:21   don't have that adapter and I don't have a USB-C to lightning cord so I haven't

00:53:27   tried it. Although it sounds like that is only for only for us. It's only for 12.9

00:53:33   inch iPad Pro people. It is. We got one new thing 12 point well technically we

00:53:38   got two new things 12.9 inch iPad Pro users are soon to be users. If you

00:53:42   haven't bought a 12.9 inch iPad Pro yet, you can get a 256 gig version. You guys suck.

00:53:48   Yeah. That's awesome. But also, yeah, you can get a USB-C to lightning cable and plug

00:53:55   it into this beautiful, I'm holding the 29 watt adapter. I bought the adapter when I

00:54:00   was down in Cupertino, but I couldn't buy the cord. So I ordered the cord online and

00:54:05   I'm like, "Well, I have the adapter in hand and hopefully the cord will come soon." Someday.

00:54:09   And they'll do the super fast charging which is cool and I guess the other thing that 12.9

00:54:15   has going for it, Jeff Carlson wrote about this on his website, is it's the one that

00:54:19   does USB 3.

00:54:21   Yes, this is also true.

00:54:22   The RAM and the USB 3 speeds are really important if you're planning on using your iPad as a

00:54:28   photography device, which is interesting.

00:54:30   So I think the breakdown for iPad at least internally at Apple my guess is well the 9.7

00:54:38   inch iPad is the iPad that you film with and the 12.9 inch iPad is the iPad that you offload

00:54:45   film and photography to.

00:54:48   Because the 9.7 inch iPad, great cameras, but still USB 2 speeds, which is not terrible

00:54:55   speeds, just not quite nearly as good as USB 3 as Jeff Carlson points out in that wonderful

00:55:01   article.

00:55:03   Whereas the USB 3 speeds on the 12.9 inch Pro are awesome and you have that big beautiful

00:55:08   screen but you have a slightly terrible camera, more terrible camera and honestly why would

00:55:13   you want to film with a 12.9 inch tablet? It's too big.

00:55:16   Right, right. It's um, what's the other thing? The other thing we've got is, well we should

00:55:21   talk about the RAM. So listener, I'll move this up from our Ask Upgrade segment. Bruce,

00:55:26   listener Bruce said, "Is the 2 gigs of RAM in the new iPad Pro a worry compared to the

00:55:29   original?" I think it's a good question and I think there's more tests that need to be

00:55:33   done. My understanding is one of the things about how iPads work is that the video RAM

00:55:39   is shared memory. And so you actually, on a smaller screen, there's less memory usage

00:55:47   for video. And there are many fewer pixels on the 9.7 inch than on the 12.9 inch. So

00:55:55   one argument would be, and I think this is the argument maybe Apple would like to make

00:55:59   but can't quite is that because it's a smaller screen the effect of using it

00:56:06   compared to the other one in terms of all the stuff you do isn't very

00:56:11   different I suspect it is different you could find edge cases where you're going

00:56:15   to definitely feel the the 4 gigs instead of the 2 gigs but it's mitigated

00:56:20   maybe somewhat by the the screen size that's the that's the the the feeling I

00:56:27   I get. But I have not confirmed it and I have to spend some time trying to like get iPads

00:56:31   to do identical things and see if that Safari tab has to reload or not. Because it's hard

00:56:36   to say right now.

00:56:37   Yeah, my honestly, my biggest worry about two gigs versus four gigs of RAM, I have been

00:56:43   doing a lot of heavy duty photo editing in with a 12.9 inch iPad Pro and a decent amount

00:56:49   of video editing, both with Pinnacle and with iMovie. And I have a feeling that that's where

00:56:57   where we'll also see a little bit of bottleneck is when you're working with

00:56:59   dual stream 4k or high you know very high quality photos or trying to do

00:57:05   excessive rendering I do a lot of repair repair tool action with pixelmator and

00:57:12   it's pretty quick on the iPad Pro on the big iPad Pro and I'm curious to see how

00:57:19   long the same repair action will take on a 9.7 inch model. Hmm interesting yeah I

00:57:24   guess we'll have to see. Yeah, yeah. So this is the stuff that really we've got our guesses

00:57:33   based on what we might have seen at the event or heard, but then there's all the stuff that

00:57:38   you've got to test yourself. Let's see. So we've got not a lot of time left. I want to

00:57:46   go to Ask Upgrade pretty soon, but are there any other things that came out of the Apple

00:57:50   event last week that really struck you, you know, and that you'd like to chat about a

00:57:55   little bit. Anything that you thought was interesting that maybe hasn't gotten the attention

00:58:00   that it deserves?

00:58:01   Yeah, I mean the iPhone SE I feel like is, you know, tent pole, whatever. It's fun. Five

00:58:05   inch or four inch iPhone, yay, return. I'm sticking with my big one.

00:58:10   It's a remix, right? It's like bits of one phone in the body of another phone. I think

00:58:14   it's very interesting for strategy reasons, but technology-wise it's not that interesting

00:58:19   because it's stuff we've seen before.

00:58:21   It is.

00:58:21   And I know people are going to be happy about it.

00:58:23   The watch, I'm really excited.

00:58:25   I'm wearing a nylon band right now,

00:58:27   one of the new woven nylon bands.

00:58:30   I really like it as a successor to the sport band.

00:58:33   It doesn't get nearly as itchy as my sport.

00:58:35   It breathes really well.

00:58:37   And it looks really tacky in photographs.

00:58:40   And then the second I actually put it on, I'm like, oh, okay,

00:58:44   now I see what they're going for.

00:58:45   And it looks a lot better, a little bit,

00:58:47   It is definitely swatch watchy.

00:58:49   Like it's, it's definitely more silly and stylish than classy and stylish, but I

00:58:54   definitely, you know, I'm, I'm definitely going to get a couple of colors of these

00:58:58   and do a more in depth review because I really like the way that they feel.

00:59:02   Yeah.

00:59:03   I'm looking forward to, uh, to checking those out.

00:59:06   I saw them in person at the event and they look good.

00:59:09   Um, I'm not sure it's my personal style, but they look better, I think in person

00:59:13   than they do in picture form.

00:59:14   Yes, much better.

00:59:16   I mean, that's my challenge when I review these is how am I going to photograph these

00:59:20   and make them actually look awesome?

00:59:22   Because they do look awesome in reality, I think.

00:59:26   The big one that I don't think is getting talked about a lot is the 9.3 of course got

00:59:33   a huge preview, but Apple didn't really hype or put a lot of focus on the Apple TV update,

00:59:40   9.2, which I feel like for people who have Apple TVs or for people who are on the fence

00:59:45   of getting Apple TVs, this is a huge update.

00:59:48   This is an update that really brings some added functionality to the Apple TV, especially

00:59:53   where Siri is concerned.

00:59:56   You can now do Siri for dictation, so you can search or enter in passwords.

01:00:01   And for people wondering how Siri dictation works with passwords, it's not like you have

01:00:05   to say your password and Siri has to interpret it.

01:00:09   You say it one letter or one symbol or one character at a time, which works really well.

01:00:15   I've done a bunch of testing on it and surprisingly well for that kind of searching,

01:00:20   but you, or for that kind of text entry.

01:00:22   But you can also find apps on the app store now.

01:00:25   If you speak Spanish,

01:00:28   you can talk to Siri in Spanish and Siri will understand you.

01:00:32   I feel like that's really helpful, especially because the remote,

01:00:36   you know, there are some pluses and some minuses with the remote.

01:00:39   They fixed one of my biggest complaints with the remote,

01:00:43   which is now when you're watching a show,

01:00:45   if you accidentally graze the touch pad,

01:00:48   it's not going to immediately bring up the scrubber

01:00:51   and move you from where you were watching in your show.

01:00:53   I don't know if you've ever done that, Jason,

01:00:55   but it was so miserable.

01:00:56   It would sit next to me on the couch,

01:00:58   and then I'd brush it and it would move.

01:01:01   Now you have to click the thing before,

01:01:04   you have to physically depress it

01:01:06   before it will bring up the scrubber

01:01:07   and then click it again to move it.

01:01:09   - There you go.

01:01:10   That is so much better.

01:01:11   yeah, I just we I would have like people walk by the the coffee table and brush against it and mess

01:01:19   up the remote thing. I'm like, no way. Are you picking it up to do something else? And it Yeah,

01:01:26   so that's no it's it's funny. I mean, there are lots of rumors about what was happening with the

01:01:31   Apple TV and whether it had been built, but then kind of like put in the fridge for a while. It's

01:01:37   unclear I've never heard definitively exactly what happened I'm sure it was

01:01:42   complicated regardless but what shipped was not was like strangely strangely

01:01:50   incomplete in some ways it felt it felt like a product that on one level you

01:01:55   know the rumors have been they had it waiting to go for like a year but on

01:01:58   another level it feels like it taken them by surprise when it finally came

01:02:02   out and with 9.2 software it seems like it's basically where we expected it to

01:02:08   be on day one and it just wasn't there on day one. No I mean they had a lot they

01:02:14   had a lot to do especially based on some of the similar rumors that I was hearing

01:02:19   about how the the box is life. I'm really glad of the things that they they

01:02:23   finally they were on their roadmap you know it would have been nice for a series

01:02:27   to and the Apple TV to have launched with spelling dictation or support for

01:02:31   wireless keyboards or iCloud photo library, which is now available in full on your Apple

01:02:36   TV. No more shared photos only. You can get any photo from your iCloud photo library if

01:02:41   it's connected. You can organize your apps into folders just like on iOS, although yes,

01:02:46   it's just as painful as iOS to organize. I don't know, I'm actually going to do a sort

01:02:53   of a re-review of the Apple TV a couple months later and I'm really grateful that this software

01:03:00   update came out because it shows to me that Apple is thinking seriously about the Apple

01:03:06   TV.

01:03:07   It has moved beyond hobby status.

01:03:09   And you know, this is, you know, 9.2, arguably a minor update as far as all things concerned.

01:03:15   9.3, you know, introduced night shift, but arguably also a minor update.

01:03:20   But sticking in all of this stuff for a minor, you know, 9x update for Apple TV, it makes

01:03:26   be really excited for what we might see at WWDC or the fall for 10.0.

01:03:29   Yeah, yeah, I'm, boy WWDC is going to be really interesting isn't it?

01:03:36   It depends on like the future of where they're taking the watch and what's

01:03:40   going on with Apple TV and then of course... What's going on with the Mac?

01:03:43   Is the Mac going to get a new name? There's just a lot of stuff going on out there.

01:03:46   It's, yeah, really interesting. You want to answer some questions?

01:03:51   Let's answer some questions. Some Ask Upgrade? Alright, it's time for Ask Upgrade

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01:06:35   upgrade I got to provide all the lasers this week - it's part of it was not even

01:06:40   in the budget. I broke the budget for that. That's okay. It was worth it. I think so.

01:06:44   So here's some listeners. So listener Jan wrote in to say, "iPad Pro is very expensive

01:06:50   in Europe and storage upgrades too. Could you cope with only 32 gigabytes? How would

01:06:55   your usage change?" What do you think about storage on iPad? I think you can probably

01:07:01   cope with 32 gigabytes. You can certainly cope with it better than 16 gigabytes. But

01:07:07   I tend to download a lot of apps because the iPad is a multi-purpose device, right?

01:07:13   You think about the kinds of things that you might do on an iPad and the storage worries

01:07:18   get even larger.

01:07:19   If you're watching video, that's going to be a chunk of things.

01:07:21   If you're looking at photographs, that's going to be a chunk of space.

01:07:24   If you're downloading photographs to edit them, that's going to be a chunk.

01:07:28   If you're drawing, that's talking, now you're talking about retina resolution drawings,

01:07:32   which are going to take up space.

01:07:34   That's not even counting any games that you might want to play or any, you know,

01:07:38   traditional, uh, like Facebook or tweet bot or Snapchat.

01:07:43   I don't know if they make Snapchat for the iPad. I don't think so. Uh,

01:07:46   that's not counting the social apps that you want to use.

01:07:49   So my general inclination with the iPad is that bigger storage is better

01:07:54   storage, especially if you're planning on doing multiple things.

01:07:58   If you're maybe just focusing on videos or just focusing on storage,

01:08:03   that might give you more leeway to do what you want and to say,

01:08:07   Oh, well, you know, I'm only going to I'm only going to use the iPad for watching

01:08:12   videos on the plane right now. So I don't need a whole lot of space. But if you're

01:08:15   continually using it for a bunch of different things, I would lean towards

01:08:19   higher storage tiers.

01:08:21   Yeah, it depends. I mean, you can you can manage small storage, right? You can

01:08:27   offload you can and I mean, I every now and then I hear somebody say, Oh, no,

01:08:31   never you always should have the most possible like I don't know I think most

01:08:36   almost all use cases you could you can get by with offloading things but that

01:08:41   said if you if you there are specific reasons right like don't if you travel

01:08:46   you want a lot of movies on there if you're doing things with huge video

01:08:49   files or if I do podcast editing right those audio files are often quite huge

01:08:55   too but um but yeah I think you can get by I think it's one of those things like

01:08:59   you're paying for convenience in most cases of just like not having to worry

01:09:03   about it right you download your apps and you don't have to worry about it and

01:09:06   I have the big I have the big iPad Pro too and it feels good because I just

01:09:11   don't even know honestly how much of the storage I'm using but you know but I

01:09:15   paid for it and I could probably have gotten by with less I just decided to to

01:09:19   max it out

01:09:20   listener hav we've gone from yon to have actually these are both very short names

01:09:28   that have special pronunciations. I hope I got that right. I think that's Hov says, "Should

01:09:33   people with the iPad Air 1 upgrade to the 9.7 iPad Pro?" What do you think?

01:09:38   Yes, yes, yes. I think that the iPad, the original iPad Air is still a pretty good machine,

01:09:45   but the iPad Pro with the A9X and support for the pencil and the new speaker system

01:09:52   and the True Tone display, which we didn't even really talk about in this episode, there's

01:09:56   a lot of really really awesome stuff that I think users who have been you

01:10:01   know sitting with their old iPad for a couple years or more are going to be

01:10:05   really really excited to get to play with.

01:10:07   Yeah I agree I mean I think that if you've got certainly before an iPad Air

01:10:13   One you should absolutely look at this this is going to be a way better product

01:10:17   for you and even the iPad Air One you know or two if you want to use the

01:10:21   pencil especially it's going to make a it's going to make a huge difference.

01:10:24   Listen, John wrote in to say and knowing you were going to be on what's the

01:10:30   latest with iBooks Author? Has it gotten easier to use?

01:10:33   It has. You know what, iBooks Author, the last major update iBooks Author had was

01:10:38   last year and a huge kind of improvement that they made was the ability to

01:10:44   directly open EPUB files. So e-book files that you would maybe worked on were

01:10:49   exported from a different service, you can then open and import into iBooks

01:10:53   Author, which is pretty awesome. You still can't save iBooks Author files as

01:10:58   EPUBs, but the ability to import that without having to manually copy and

01:11:04   paste stuff to build it for different formats is really cool. iBooks Author

01:11:08   still has some limitations. It's still, you know, all of the eBooks building

01:11:13   software, there's still no one perfect tool. But if you're looking for something

01:11:19   that makes ebook building easy, especially if you're a new author who wants to do stuff

01:11:24   with multimedia, I think it's gotten 1000 times easier to use since it was first debuted.

01:11:30   It's kind of in, I'm wondering if they'll do something for it either this summer or

01:11:36   this fall, though, especially with the excess that they the importance that they've placed

01:11:41   on education recently with the iPad.

01:11:43   Yeah, it's it's one of those products that it's just hanging around, right? It's like

01:11:48   Not high profile at all, but it's out there.

01:11:52   Somebody's still working on it.

01:11:53   - Got a team, a very small team, but it's a team.

01:11:56   - Yeah, that's good.

01:11:58   Team means it's more than one, so that's nice.

01:12:01   It's like I cracked the code there.

01:12:02   You probably know the entire team by name, don't you?

01:12:05   Don't you?

01:12:06   (laughs)

01:12:07   - I will neither confirm nor deny.

01:12:09   - Fair enough.

01:12:10   Listener Devin wrote in to say,

01:12:11   "Do you think the Apple Watch 2 will accept

01:12:14   OG Apple Watch bands?"

01:12:17   Well put, Devin.

01:12:19   The OG.

01:12:20   The OG bands, the original bands.

01:12:23   What do you think?

01:12:25   Yeah, I think they would be stupid not to.

01:12:29   The iPad, the iPad, the Apple Watch at this point is just over a year old.

01:12:35   It will, well, I guess just under, oh no, just about a year old as of either two days

01:12:41   ago, I think.

01:12:42   I think it came March 24th last year.

01:12:45   So just a year old now.

01:12:47   Just over a year old.

01:12:48   If they announce an Apple Watch 2,

01:12:50   it's probably going to be either at DubDub or in September.

01:12:55   I'm leaning towards September right now.

01:12:56   And I think they'll make it thinner.

01:13:00   But they've given themselves some leeway

01:13:03   in terms of how the bands connect

01:13:05   and the basic thickness of the case.

01:13:08   So I think they can shave off actually quite a bit

01:13:10   of thickness of the case without interfering

01:13:13   with the band connections.

01:13:14   And given how much, how many resources they've put into making these collection of bands,

01:13:20   I really think that they're not gonna, we're gonna get, I feel like at least two iterations of the Apple Watch with the original band connector.

01:13:29   It just, it seems like a really good way to anger customers otherwise.

01:13:35   - Yeah. - I agree. I actually would be not surprised at all if the Apple Watch 2 looked no different than the Apple Watch original,

01:13:42   and that they focused on upgrading the inside. And I don't think... I'm not sure they even want to make it thinner,

01:13:47   because do they feel that it's too thick, or do they feel that they could use a little more battery life, or some other thing on the inside?

01:13:54   Like, do they want to make it harder on themselves by making it thinner, or do they want to make the whole thing just be better?

01:14:02   like it's in a place now where better is probably more important than thinner. I don't hear a lot of

01:14:07   people complaining that the Apple Watch is just too thick, but maybe those people are out there.

01:14:11   And I agree. I think one of the advantages of doing these banned updates as they've been doing

01:14:17   is kind of wrecked if they then just make them all kind of invalid. I think, yes, Apple has a history

01:14:27   of making things incompatible in the past but I feel like the Apple Watch is

01:14:31   yeah it's at a careful stage you want to you want to nurture it and make

01:14:35   the users feel happy about it and keeping their band investment even if

01:14:43   they decide to upgrade seems like a way to do that make them make them happy

01:14:47   about the Apple Watch ecosystem right okay listen to Brando says why doesn't

01:14:54   Apple use the colors of the iPod touch on their phones? They look really good on metal.

01:14:58   They do. But anodizing aluminum is challenging to begin with. And also,

01:15:06   there's something to be said about following design trends and going with the colors of the

01:15:16   season. This sounds so dumb. But because Apple is now in fashion with the Apple Watch, I think

01:15:22   I think they've always had sort of an eye towards what colors are sort of hot and in

01:15:28   the public eye.

01:15:29   Rose gold is a really great example of that.

01:15:33   And I feel like there are only so many color variations that they can put out for the iPhone

01:15:39   line before it starts getting ridiculous.

01:15:41   They already have a ton of SKUs in their system.

01:15:43   They have a ton of different iPhone models.

01:15:45   And every extra iPhone color you get, that adds a whole extra slew of models, because

01:15:52   then you have to look at the LTE models and are there different?

01:15:55   They've mostly unified that band spectrum but I think are there still two?

01:15:59   There are two models of iPhone 6s and two models of 6s Plus I believe.

01:16:03   Yeah I mean they've got five models plus all the colors that are already there plus all

01:16:08   of the size skews for storage right?

01:16:11   Yeah exactly and then so you add that each color adds all of those extra

01:16:17   skews and that in comparison the iPod touch had what two sizes per color so it's

01:16:25   a little little less of a little less stress that's the short answer

01:16:29   I I would love to see it and I feel like Apple's gotten much better about

01:16:35   handling multicolored things but yeah the more colors they offer I don't think

01:16:40   it being kind of like fashion is is an issue I just think yeah that's that's

01:16:46   the question is do they really want to stock do we really want to commit to

01:16:49   stocking like five or six different colors or or even like two or three

01:16:53   additional colors on top of that they've got gold and rose gold and silver and

01:16:59   space gray already so they've already got four colors I just I feel like

01:17:04   they're also plain I would really love to see a brighter like super vibrant

01:17:09   like a color color like a blue you know that would be great but I don't know I

01:17:15   hope so. I hope at some point in the future they will turn around and embrace

01:17:19   colorful stuff like they did with the nano, but I wouldn't put money on it for

01:17:25   soon, I guess. One last real question before a ridiculous question. So,

01:17:32   ListerMyke, not Myke Hurley because he spelled it right, says, "Woo, burn Myke Hurley! I said you spelled your name wrong.

01:17:37   Which of your hot takes have cooled off the most?" This is really interesting.

01:17:41   What initial impressions of new tech did you later reverse?

01:17:45   Do you have anything that you think,

01:17:46   you know, that you thought one thing

01:17:48   and then after using it for a little while,

01:17:50   you're like, oh no, actually that's no good.

01:17:52   - That's a good, I'm gonna have you start with yours

01:17:56   'cause I'm thinking about mine.

01:17:57   - Okay, you're gonna pass?

01:17:57   All right, okay.

01:17:58   - I'm not gonna pass.

01:17:59   I wanna do, but I have a couple that I'm thinking about.

01:18:02   - I'm gonna mention one that's recent

01:18:04   that I think people might be surprised by,

01:18:07   but I, as conceptually, I am behind the idea of 3D touch, I never use it.

01:18:16   I was talking to Gruber about this last week at the Apple event, and he was saying, and I think he's right,

01:18:22   that one of the challenges here is that it's this alternate click, but you can't, alternate tap,

01:18:29   but you can't count on it on all of iOS, so it's gotten kind of put off on the side

01:18:34   as some sort of strange unique gestures that aren't really required but they're

01:18:39   optional and that they might be better off saying you know there's one

01:18:45   alternate you know alternate touch and on 3D touch devices it works with a 3D

01:18:52   touch and on all the other devices it works with like a touch and hold but

01:18:55   they would have to redefine what the touches are but this is the problem it's

01:18:58   just like the problem with the the extra clicks on the Mac it's like they already

01:19:01   defined what everything is for a click and an alternate click so even though

01:19:06   you have the capability for this extra click nobody really uses it because

01:19:08   what's it good for and you can't count on it on all devices and you know and so

01:19:13   for me I say that I really like the idea and I feel like there could really be

01:19:16   something amazing done with it but honestly I never I just never use 3d

01:19:22   touch and in fact I try very hard not to over you know it's made me even on the

01:19:26   iPad like afraid to push too hard on the screen for fear I trigger it when I

01:19:31   don't want to because I never want to. So that's mine. I've cooled on 3D Touch

01:19:36   as implemented. I feel like I have the exact opposite path as you

01:19:42   where I started off being like 3D Touch is weird and it's a cool idea but then I

01:19:48   completely forgot about it and in the last I'd say two months I've gotten

01:19:52   really really into it. This is funny. I think mine is actually going to be the 6s plus. I switched

01:20:01   back to a 6s last week and I don't know how I lived without it. I have the 6s. I do have the

01:20:08   battery pack on the back and I do wish that the battery pack had a rose gold option because I have

01:20:14   this lovely rose gold 6s that I only ever see like a peek of rose gold from the camera. But the 6s

01:20:21   Plus is great in many ways.

01:20:24   It does have the best camera of the iPhone line.

01:20:28   And its screen is amazing.

01:20:30   But after having used it--

01:20:32   I used it basically for four or five months.

01:20:35   And I made the decision when the SE was announced

01:20:38   to go back to the 6S.

01:20:40   I wasn't going to go back to 4-inch.

01:20:41   But I'm like, you know what?

01:20:43   I kind of missed the 4.7-inch phone.

01:20:45   And then once I went back, I realized just how much

01:20:49   I was compromising to kind of run with the 6S Plus.

01:20:53   It's a beautiful screen.

01:20:55   I like the big screen in some regards, but I also think that it kept me from working

01:21:02   on my iPad or working on my Mac, where I was just attempting to do things poorly on a semi-compatible

01:21:09   screen rather than actually choosing the right device for the right space.

01:21:14   And I'm also really glad to just have a phone that fits in my pocket again.

01:21:18   Boy, Myke's taking it on the chin again in another week where he's not here.

01:21:23   He should never leave.

01:21:25   This is the rule.

01:21:26   This is the lesson, Myke.

01:21:27   Never leave.

01:21:29   One last question.

01:21:30   This is from listener Dean and it is, "What are Jason's Hawaiian must-dos/visits?"

01:21:37   Because we talked about Hawaiian pizza and Hawaii came up on Twitter a bunch.

01:21:41   Hawaii is my favorite place in the world.

01:21:43   I would go there. I would go on vacation there every year, twice a year, all the time, whatever.

01:21:49   I don't know. If you go to the Big Island of Hawaii, I liked staying over in the Kailua-Kona

01:21:58   area, which is the drier area, warmer and drier as opposed to over by Hilo where it's rainy and

01:22:04   muggy. But from there, from either of those cities, actually, you drive to the volcano area, and

01:22:12   there's the volcanoes National Park and you can walk around and see where the

01:22:18   Kilauea volcano is like there's a caldera and you can drive down to where

01:22:22   the lava flow is flowed right over a road that used to be there and it's

01:22:27   pretty spectacular

01:22:28   the island of Kauai is amazing and has lots of lush foliage because it's the

01:22:33   oldest and so sort of most eroded island and it's got a it's got big Waimea Canyon

01:22:38   is beautiful and you can get like go on a on a kayak or canoe and paddle up the

01:22:44   the river and hike to waterfalls and stuff like that so that's a beautiful

01:22:48   one or you can like go to Maui and just like sit on the beach and hang out which

01:22:53   I also like and even on Oahu if you drive through the the tunnel to the

01:22:58   windward side of the island you can get away it's not just like an island that

01:23:02   is Honolulu if you get outside of Honolulu there's some pretty amazing

01:23:04   stuff on the rest of the island. So I have, I don't know, I would say Hawaii is

01:23:10   a must-do even if you're far away. It's pretty awesome and I love it. And

01:23:14   being on the west coast it's very easy to get there which is also pretty cool.

01:23:18   Wren, do you have Hawaiian thoughts? Oh gosh, I haven't been to Hawaii since I

01:23:23   was 13 but the one trip that I made I quite loved. You're gonna have to go back.

01:23:29   That's all there is to it. I know, you know what, Version America flies out of

01:23:33   SFO now so I'm just gonna have to tag it on to the end of an Apple trip. Just go

01:23:37   to go to Hawaii instead of go back to the East Coast. This is our this is what

01:23:41   we're lucky about. So my you know you living in New England my my sister-in-law

01:23:45   lived in New England for a few years and I remember distinctly she came out for a

01:23:53   family thing that we we all met for a Christmas in Hawaii and the flight from

01:23:59   Boston all the way to get to Hawaii it's just it is impossible. So people in the

01:24:03   People in the East Coast, people in Europe, it's sort of impossible to even think about

01:24:07   it. Although I have had friends, I had a friend from Germany actually go to Hawaii last year.

01:24:10   I've had some friends from the East Coast, my aunt and uncle who have lived most of their

01:24:16   lives in the East did it for their daughter got married there in fact. It was pretty great.

01:24:21   So I recommend it, but it's a lot easier for us West Coasters because it's just like a

01:24:26   four and a half hour flight from here and it's much further from, think about flying

01:24:31   to San Francisco and then tack on another four or five hours. And that's how it's a

01:24:34   long way, but it's got in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. It's it's out there, but it's

01:24:38   great. All right. Well, I think that has that that has done it for this episode of upgrade.

01:24:44   Ren, thank you so much for coming on and being my very special guest star.

01:24:49   Thanks for having me, Jason. This was a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. It's always always

01:24:52   a pleasure to have you on. It's fun to find a change it up when Myke is away. The mice

01:24:56   will play when Myke is away and insults all the things that Myke's likes. Yeah, you know,

01:25:01   He'll get over it. He's fine. He's tough. I bought him a pen at the Apple store today.

01:25:05   He'll be fine. Pens make it all better.

01:25:08   It's true.

01:25:10   So that wraps it up. You can check our show notes out in your podcast app of choice, of

01:25:13   course, or going to relay.fm/upgrade/82. Thank you to our sponsors, PDF Pen Pro from

01:25:20   Smile, ITProTV, and MailRoute. You can reach us. Serenity is @Settern on Twitter, S-E-T-T-E-R-N.

01:25:27   I am @jstell on Twitter. Myke is @imyke. You can tell him all the terrible things

01:25:31   we said about him. And we will see you next week for another episode of

01:25:35   Upgrade. Goodbye, everybody!

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