73: Put on your Rumor Pants


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 73. Today's show is brought to you by Mail Route and

00:00:15   Freshbooks. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Jason Snell from Arizona.

00:00:20   From Arizona, yes. I'm in the Phoenix Bureau today. Hi, how are you?

00:00:24   How is the Phoenix Bureau?

00:00:25   you know it's fine it's not you know i come to arizona and i kind of would like it to be

00:00:29   wonderfully warm and uh sort of summer breezes all year round but it's uh only about five or

00:00:36   ten degrees warmer than it is at home so you know it's it's just uh a different location drier

00:00:42   drier and hotter yep out in the desert not i would like it to be even hotter than it is but it's not

00:00:50   i'm sorry about that that's okay in the summer it's ridiculously hot so it's better to visit in

00:00:55   in the winter, I think. I have, uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull back

00:01:01   from my original claim of no more muffins discussion. Yeah, I was surprised that you

00:01:06   put this in the show notes because I thought we were going to just sort of walk whistling

00:01:10   past the muffin feedback, but, uh... Yeah, I just figured, Chris asked, and I figured

00:01:14   maybe I have eaten the muffins now. They have been consumed. So I figured I should at least

00:01:19   just tell everyone that I enjoyed them. Okay. That's kind of it. I enjoyed the muffins.

00:01:24   I had them with Jam, I toasted them.

00:01:26   Edina had one.

00:01:28   She seemed to like it too, but we haven't bought anymore.

00:01:32   Oh, all right.

00:01:33   But we did go to a bakery over the weekend and they were everywhere.

00:01:36   It was so funny.

00:01:37   It's like I can't escape them now.

00:01:39   What is that German term for when you see something everywhere?

00:01:42   There is a term for that.

00:01:44   I always bring this up, but can never remember the term.

00:01:48   It's like once you've seen something, oh, it's the beta meinhof phenomenon.

00:01:53   When you see something or you think about something or you discover something, you see it everywhere.

00:01:59   Like a lot of people say like, "You want to get a new car and you have a car that you want and then

00:02:04   you just see that car on the road constantly." That's what I'm like with muffins now. I see

00:02:09   muffins everywhere I go. We actually have that with dogs. We got a boxer and now we see boxers

00:02:16   everywhere. Now we see them. They were apparently always there and we just never noticed them,

00:02:21   but now that we have one, we see them everywhere.

00:02:25   It is a non-exclusive phenomenon. It can be dogs, cars, muffins. The beta-minor phenomenon

00:02:31   happens to everything.

00:02:32   Yeah, that's good. It would be weird if it just happened to muffins. Why would they even

00:02:37   call it that?

00:02:38   The beta-muffin phenomenon.

00:02:40   Oh, we're off the rails already.

00:02:44   I think that would be more like the muffins-skone hypothesis. Something like that.

00:02:50   again on Twitter, I wanted to know, and I meant to bring this up last week but completely

00:02:53   forgot, where did you get your custom keycaps from, like the beautiful orange ones, and

00:02:58   then today you went ahead and wrote a little blog post about your beautiful KillKey keyboard

00:03:04   and it has even more orange keycaps than previous.

00:03:07   Yes, the orange keycaps have increased.

00:03:10   It's like there's some kind of illness in the keyboard.

00:03:14   It's spreading, the orange is spreading, it's a citrus keyboard disease.

00:03:19   So as the recap, I bought this Leopold 660M, I think it's a ten-keyless mechanical keyboard.

00:03:27   It's got cherry blue switches, it's a clinky, clacky, loud keyboard and I'm really enjoying

00:03:32   it.

00:03:34   But it came, it was a black keyboard with black keys, just all black.

00:03:38   It's a Darth Vader keyboard and I thought, and it's a Windows keyboard so it's got a

00:03:42   Windows logo and it's got an Alt key and it's got these keys that don't really fit my Mac

00:03:48   lifestyle.

00:03:49   did was I ordered some custom keycaps and you can get the custom keycaps are

00:03:54   available all over the place it turns out. I have fallen into a rabbit hole of

00:03:58   finicky clicky keyboard ways to spend money including massdrop.com which has a

00:04:05   lot of group sales of keyboard stuff I've discovered but the orange keys in

00:04:12   particular are from WASD keyboards which is the maker of the code keyboard and a

00:04:18   bunch of other mechanical keyboards and then they also sell keycaps they have

00:04:22   keycap sets. Are these the guys that do the one with no markings on the top? Yes.

00:04:28   What is that? I don't get that. Yeah that's somebody asked me about that today on Twitter and

00:04:32   said I think that's I think that's showing off a little bit much I don't I

00:04:36   don't approve of unlabeled keys even though I almost never look at my keycaps

00:04:41   they should be labeled. To buy a keyboard that specifically has no labels

00:04:46   is showing off.

00:04:48   Yeah, it is.

00:04:50   And they have custom, so I wish it was a little more

00:04:54   self-serve. I would love it if I could do custom keycaps, like upload

00:04:58   a file and say, "Here's the size of the keycap and the color, and

00:05:02   here's what I want on it, and print that for me." And they don't do that, but

00:05:06   they have keycap sets, and they've got some blank keys that you can get.

00:05:10   And so that's how I got the, you know, I have the Command key instead

00:05:14   instead of the alt key, and I removed the windows key and replaced it with a blank,

00:05:21   because I'd rather have a blank option key than an option key with the windows logo on

00:05:25   it, because I just feel that's right.

00:05:28   How come you could get a command key but not an option key?

00:05:31   That's kind of strange, right?

00:05:32   Well, one of the weird things is that part of it is that the option is alt, and so it's

00:05:38   harder to get an option key and get an option key in the style that matches.

00:05:43   And the challenge for me with the Leopold keyboard is that it's got to be the 1x1

00:05:49   key size and I think that's, in the corners of this funny little keyboard there are some

00:05:54   non-standard key sizes or at least less common key sizes.

00:05:58   And so WASD's keyboards have a different sized key down there.

00:06:02   So I think it would be, I think I could probably get an orange option key to fit that spot

00:06:08   but I would probably have to order like a $15 set of 20 keys, one of which I would use

00:06:16   and the rest of them I would not use and that seemed pointless when I could just order a

00:06:19   blank.

00:06:20   So I just ordered the blank and it's fine.

00:06:23   It's fine.

00:06:24   So now I've got this kind of cool orange and black keyboard and I did, I added more.

00:06:27   I just had the arrow keys and the command keys before and now I have all the numbers

00:06:30   and letters and so it's just kind of some of the modifiers that are still in black and

00:06:35   I like it.

00:06:36   I like how it looks.

00:06:37   Honestly, these keycaps, they're actually a little bit taller than the keycaps that

00:06:41   came with the keyboard, and they feel better.

00:06:44   They feel like they're of a better material.

00:06:45   Yeah, you can see that they're different looking, I think.

00:06:48   Yeah, and I ordered them with Mac-style labeling on them, so they've got the letter right

00:06:53   in the center rather than a lot of PC-style keyboards or standard-style keyboards that

00:06:59   do it a little differently.

00:07:00   It feels a little more like a Mac keyboard, which is what I was going for.

00:07:04   One thing on the option key, whilst we're in complete keyboard

00:07:08   nerdery, did you know that like in the UK we actually don't have option written on

00:07:15   the key?

00:07:16   What does it say?

00:07:17   It's alt and it has the little symbol.

00:07:20   Oh, but it has the little option symbol.

00:07:22   It has the option symbol but it says alt.

00:07:24   It doesn't say the word option on it.

00:07:26   Okay, but it's got the, yeah, okay, so that works.

00:07:29   Ours, I'm looking at my MacBook Air right now and it has alt and option on it, but I

00:07:34   I like the little option symbol.

00:07:37   I would get a key with that.

00:07:38   I would totally pay $5 or something to get an orange key for my option key that was the

00:07:44   option symbol, but I haven't been able to find that.

00:07:47   So yeah, I think that key has a lot of names, right?

00:07:51   Because it's the Alt key for Windows users, and I'm a little confused about why that is

00:07:57   labeled as Alt even by Apple.

00:07:59   Why not just call it option, put the option symbol on it and be done with it, but they

00:08:03   They don't do that.

00:08:04   Yeah.

00:08:05   Keyboards, man.

00:08:06   How do they work?

00:08:07   They're pretty weird.

00:08:08   Yeah.

00:08:09   I have to say, I've been looking at this and I'm like, "I think I would like a clackety

00:08:13   keyboard, but I would never, ever use it, so it's just not a road I'm going to go down."

00:08:18   No, you don't write a lot and you podcast.

00:08:23   As I said last week, I now have to have a podcasting keyboard because I can't use that

00:08:29   keyboard when I'm podcasting because you can hear it very clearly.

00:08:34   Although I do like the clackety sound that the smart cover keyboard makes.

00:08:39   It makes a sound like it's more like a slapping sound.

00:08:42   It's a kind of strange noise, but I like it anyway.

00:08:45   Tactile feedback is a good thing.

00:08:46   That's why, you know, even though we may inevitably end up all typing on glass as our primary,

00:08:52   that may be where we're just going.

00:08:55   There is something to be said.

00:08:56   I mean that's why I went to this is it on one level it seems like a total throwback to the old the old days

00:09:00   but what you get out of it is

00:09:02   Feel and sound and that that feels it feels and sounds good and and so, you know

00:09:10   It's not for everybody but but I'm loving it

00:09:12   Piece follow-up from a show. I think it's maybe last week all the week before I can't remember

00:09:17   The chapters app that we mentioned is now available in the Mac App Store, right?

00:09:23   I'll put a link to chaptersapp.com where you can find out more information and also there's links in the Mac apps on now

00:09:29   So you can go and download it. I believe it's on sale right now as we record

00:09:33   I think it was like 10 or 11 pounds or something like that, which I'm pleased to see

00:09:37   That it's priced at a good price, you know, like a professional tool price, you know, yeah the special utility

00:09:44   I should say this is a product for people who are making podcasts and one put chapters in their podcasts. Yeah, and

00:09:50   it shouldn't be a $2 app because you know it's a tool for people who are taking their podcast

00:09:57   creation seriously and you don't have to use it. So if you care enough to want to put chapter

00:10:02   markers in your in your mp3s for your podcast then I think $15 is not too much to ask.

00:10:07   Yeah, yeah I agree. It's such a niche. It's a niche utility even amongst podcasters.

00:10:15   So I'm pleased that it exists because this stuff should be more accessible because it is really

00:10:22   difficult to do and some of the web tools like Orphonic that exist are not really that great to

00:10:28   use and this is a better experience. So if you are a podcaster, obviously just checking it out

00:10:35   or having it in your arsenal. Whilst we don't do chapters a lot on the shows that we do here,

00:10:41   we do them when we feel that they're necessary and it's always good to have a tool around

00:10:46   to be able to do that sort of stuff with.

00:10:49   I recommend it.

00:10:50   >> Somebody asked me like should we, you know, should every podcast have chapters and you

00:10:54   know, I'm with you, I feel like chapter, we always have joked about that Germans want

00:11:01   chapter markers because a lot of popular podcasts in Germany have chapters and tools, podcasting

00:11:06   tools in Germany and other parts of Europe have built support in, but now it's become

00:11:14   more broadly supported.

00:11:16   Still it really needs to be your content needs to make sense for chapters, and a lot of the

00:11:20   wide-ranging discussions we have don't necessarily fit.

00:11:23   I mean, this week's incomparable, I didn't put chapters in it because it was really one

00:11:26   discussion and I didn't feel a need, but if we were talking about five different subjects,

00:11:31   I would probably drop in a bunch of chapter markers.

00:11:34   So it's not for everyone, but it can be very useful.

00:11:39   Clockwise is perfect.

00:11:41   Yes, exactly.

00:11:43   It fits.

00:11:44   There's four distinct topics and it's nice to jump from thing to thing.

00:11:48   It makes sense in there.

00:11:50   So we've used it like it was great for the upgrade, these different awards, it was all

00:11:53   kind of nicely broken up like that.

00:11:55   Right.

00:11:56   So yeah, I liked it.

00:11:57   Did a good job.

00:11:58   So that is now available.

00:11:59   People should go and check it out.

00:12:01   Absolutely.

00:12:02   All right, should we take a break?

00:12:04   Yeah, let's do it.

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00:15:01   of upgrade and relay fm it's german time oh yes it is he we were waiting for this and uh mr german

00:15:11   has come out with a whole host of rumors and reports and that kind of thing over the last

00:15:17   couple of days the first and this is all based around stuff that they say is going to be happening

00:15:23   in the spring. So the first is Apple is developing and readying what is being dubbed currently as the

00:15:31   iPhone 5SE for a kind of a March/April time and it's basically the updated iPhone 5S with a bunch

00:15:39   of the six features. What do you think of the name 5SE? Now, Germin's saying that Apple's saying this

00:15:46   this will stand for special edition.

00:15:49   - Mm, sure.

00:15:51   I don't know, it's weird.

00:15:52   It's weird.

00:15:55   I guess what it means is that if it looks,

00:15:59   the strange thing is the suggestion that it might not look,

00:16:01   that it might look more like a six than a five.

00:16:05   - Yeah, they're gonna,

00:16:06   what it seems is they're at least gonna be

00:16:08   curving the glass on the front.

00:16:10   - Yeah, I don't entirely understand it

00:16:12   because you could argue that it means,

00:16:15   what does iPhone five mean?

00:16:16   versus iPhone 6 is what I struggle with here.

00:16:19   If this thing is called the 5SE and it looks more or less like a 5,

00:16:23   then you're sort of saying,

00:16:24   "Well, really it's not the processor and the features that are inside it, it's the look."

00:16:29   And this will look like a 5, and so we're going to call it a 5. It's the 5SE.

00:16:34   But if they're curving the glass, is it going to look like a 5, or is it going to look

00:16:38   more like the 6?

00:16:40   Maybe not. Maybe it's going to look a little different on the front, but it's

00:16:43   going to look very similar on the back.

00:16:45   I don't know it's a little bit surprising.

00:16:48   At the same time it firmly places it at the bottom of the hierarchy as the, you know,

00:16:54   this is like the old 5.

00:16:56   It is a smaller phone than the 6 models and maybe that's important.

00:17:01   I don't know in the long run how you handle that and if you just have iPhone 5s in the

00:17:06   price list forever or what.

00:17:12   So I'm trying to parse like what does it mean, what does this name mean, and how it might

00:17:17   affect things in the long run.

00:17:19   But in the short term, it's not that bad a name in the sense that it just is an extension

00:17:24   on the 5S.

00:17:25   It's like, look, we did a refresh to the 5S to make it a little more modern, because some

00:17:31   people really like the 5S and they like the size of it.

00:17:33   I can hear them saying that.

00:17:34   So, you know, they just, it sounds a little like Special Edition, you're right, which

00:17:38   is kind of funny.

00:17:39   But you know, I don't know. What do you think?

00:17:43   I love the name and I think I'm in the minority. I like 5SE and I like 5 Special Edition. I

00:17:50   think that sounds great. I just like that kind of different branding for it. Special

00:17:56   Edition's kind of cool, right? Because it's kind of like, "Ah, you're the one with the

00:18:00   Special Edition 5." There's something about that for me, which works from a marketing

00:18:05   perspective because if it's gonna be pretty much the same as the 5s even if

00:18:12   there's gonna be some cosmetic changes but maybe not too many I mean my kind of

00:18:16   imagination of this is like some kind of not in an ugly way but Frankenstein

00:18:21   device like it looks of like a 5s at the back and the six at the front yeah right

00:18:25   yeah like they just removed the chamfer on the front and it's glass now but

00:18:29   the chamfer still on the back that's kind of what I assume this is gonna look

00:18:32   like. But we'll have to wait and see on that. I mean I'd be very surprised if they went

00:18:37   a whole way to create a brand new phone like they did with the C. But I don't know, we'll

00:18:43   see. I explained all of these rumors to Adina and she is very happy to hear that this product

00:18:49   is going to exist. Because she is a 5S user and she's complaining about her battery life,

00:18:56   she knows she needs an upgrade. But she cannot go to a 6, her hands are way too small, she

00:19:00   just wouldn't be able to do it. She would have to use a six as a two-handed device.

00:19:03   Like there's just no way it would work for her. So she's really happy to hear about it.

00:19:08   But that yeah, but that branding, I really like the branding. Do you think it's a, it

00:19:12   is a like a callback to the Mac SE? No, no, you don't think that? Like it's just a happy

00:19:18   coincidence? Yeah, I think so. Someone on the marketing team knew that that was happening

00:19:24   though, right? They can't ignore it. They had a Macintosh SE and nobody died. It was

00:19:28   all fine so we could name it that and it would be people wouldn't care I I think

00:19:34   it's it's yeah it's interesting it's a weird product because we're talking

00:19:38   about Apple kind of going backward but also forward so it's a yeah it's a funny

00:19:43   thing I think it's great because I think there are a lot of people out there like

00:19:46   Adina who really want a smaller phone I think that's a valid size and offering

00:19:51   an iPhone in that size that's got a little more modern tech inside it I

00:19:54   I think it's good. I think it's a good thing.

00:19:56   Yeah, because the next one, which was a post today,

00:19:59   is that the 5SE is likely to include the A9 and M9 chips,

00:20:04   which is great because then they're bringing it up closer to spec, right?

00:20:09   Yeah.

00:20:10   Which is fantastic. I mean, you want it to be a better device.

00:20:13   You want it to be faster, you want it to be more capable.

00:20:17   If they would have just updated the design and then maybe put an A8 in there,

00:20:21   you know, we'll probably look at an A10 and the iPhone 7 so it would have been two

00:20:27   revolutions behind. Right, what you want you you want to have it be like it's

00:20:33   like the iPad Pro update is you don't want to let a brand new product go to

00:20:38   the work of making a new product and having it be two steps behind. One step

00:20:41   is okay but you don't want it be two because six months from now it will be

00:20:45   two steps behind if you do that so you know you you don't want to end up with

00:20:49   it three steps behind. So this makes sense that if you're going to, uh, if

00:20:54   you're going to release this product and have it be go through the trouble of

00:20:58   engineering a new product, right? Instead of just making the old phone that you'd

00:21:04   want to give it some life. And so by putting the, the a nine in it now, then,

00:21:09   you know, the other phones, it's not going to get an update in the fall. So it's

00:21:12   going to fall behind immediately, but that's okay because it's not going to be

00:21:16   that far behind and it's got the stuff that you'd expect it's got the kind of

00:21:19   always on Ahoy telephone and you know the motion coprocessor so you can do

00:21:24   your your pedometer and you know it's got Apple pay and it's got you know it's

00:21:31   it's an iPhone with all of the features of the iPhone so that's a good thing

00:21:36   even if it's not in six months it's not on the same hardware it's not like

00:21:41   hopelessly behind where you know because at some point Adina would need a new

00:21:45   phone and she'd look at that iPhone 5 and say well I'm not getting that that

00:21:49   why would I get that it's just the old phone yeah so at some point you need to

00:21:53   have even if the size even if it's a cheaper model even if you know the size

00:21:57   is the smaller size it needs to be somewhere in with inhaling distance of

00:22:04   current technology yeah and what I also like is that they're gonna be bringing

00:22:10   Apple Pay and Live Photos to this device. So it is kind of being treated like a current

00:22:16   generation product, right? Like it's not being left behind and whilst it won't have 3D Touch,

00:22:23   they will probably do the implementation of Live Photos to view them as you can now, which

00:22:27   is if you long press on a non-3D Touch device, the Live Photo works, but this device will

00:22:33   be able to take them, which is excellent I think.

00:22:36   Yeah, I think this is all good news and this is how...

00:22:41   This goes, I mean I mentioned the iPads earlier, but this goes to Apple's kind of modern product

00:22:45   philosophy from the last few years, which is old products don't die.

00:22:49   They just kind of use the old products to create a spread in the product line.

00:22:54   That's sort of what we're seeing with this.

00:22:56   It's a new product, but it's really just sort of filling in one of these niches that comes

00:23:01   from the old product being a little bit too old now, but they want to keep that slot around.

00:23:06   Just like you know we've got three new iPad models plus a couple of old iPad models that are for sale

00:23:13   So it totally fits in in this approach. It is a lot less simpler an approach

00:23:18   Than what Apple used to do, but it allows them to hit a whole bunch of different market segments something

00:23:25   I like from the report

00:23:26   This is a quote from Gorman also contrary to the rumors

00:23:29   The device is not a preview of the iPhone 7 as it will mostly retain the 5s design and still include a headphone jack

00:23:35   jack.

00:23:36   Burn.

00:23:37   Yeah, well, also that's kind of like that like, uh, non-denial denial type thing, right?

00:23:45   Like, he's just put that in there.

00:23:47   He hasn't, like, German hasn't come out and said one way or the other what he knows about

00:23:51   that, but that's very much a wink-wink type thing.

00:23:55   I mean, I read that and I'm like, um, you know, this thing hasn't got a headphone jack

00:23:59   in it.

00:24:00   Right?

00:24:01   The 7 just hasn't at this point for me.

00:24:03   I think 9to5Mac has reported that, but not without Germin Byline, and I just sort of

00:24:08   assumed that, just in terms of who writes for that site, that if Germin felt like that

00:24:16   report was bad, he would probably have said something, and they ran the report.

00:24:23   So...

00:24:24   I mean, I don't know.

00:24:26   There's a part of me that's like, I just see it as like separate.

00:24:29   He's... I pretty much, the way I look at that now is he has run of whatever he wants to

00:24:35   do and I think he's mainly separate because, I mean we spoke about this a bunch of times,

00:24:39   like, German is so well connected and he's so good at what he does, it is interesting

00:24:43   that he continues to write under somebody else's banner, but that's what he does, so

00:24:49   when I look at it I just feel like he only ever does these kind of pieces now, so I think

00:24:55   he pretty much is just involved at that level.

00:24:58   I just assume that behind the scenes, you know, I would like to believe that if they've

00:25:01   got a major Apple rumor report and you're the site that employs Mark Gurman, that you

00:25:05   probably would have him see it and, you know, say "definitely not" or "let me check that"

00:25:14   or something just to save you from printing something that was totally bogus.

00:25:20   But it is, yeah, anyway, it is interesting that this is a reference, although you could

00:25:24   read this as a sly reference to the other reports on the site and not

00:25:27   necessarily specific confirmation just sort of like putting in the context of

00:25:32   the other site reports I don't know how that all works because different people

00:25:35   have different you know they may be different writers maybe maybe more

00:25:40   competitors than allies at some sites that that is the case too so I don't

00:25:44   know what the what the backstory is there but but yeah that was a good good

00:25:47   pickup that you got he's definitely putting in the context of iPhone 7 with

00:25:51   with the no headphone jack. As well as this, also a kind of a report I

00:25:57   wasn't expecting about the Apple Watch in that the Watch 2 will be coming in September,

00:26:04   which I really didn't want. I don't want there to be another full product.

00:26:08   There were rumors that it was coming in the spring.

00:26:10   Yeah, well, because what's happening is, they're gonna‚Ķ I think maybe where it

00:26:15   potentially got confused is at whatever is happening in the spring, whether it be an

00:26:20   event or whatever along with the 5SE they're gonna have Apple Watch stuff to talk about.

00:26:25   So they're gonna have 2.2, they're gonna have apparently more watch bands and German's reported

00:26:30   that made out of entirely new materials and more fashion partnerships beyond Hermes. So

00:26:36   there's gonna be a lot of stuff to talk about with the watch like they have done in previous

00:26:41   events but they're not actually bringing out Watch 2 and that will be coming with apparently

00:26:48   a full redesign in the fall which is not what I'd heard, not what I've heard other people

00:26:54   say and not what I expected. The Apple Watch is going to be long in the tooth come September.

00:27:03   That will be two years since it was announced. A year and a half since it shipped. So it's

00:27:09   effectively two years old, right? Because they couldn't have changed too much. Which

00:27:13   Which is surprising, I wonder, and you know, I guess...

00:27:18   I don't know if I would say that only because it was an unusual case because it was preannounced,

00:27:22   but will we say that the, would we say that the iPhone 7 is a year old in next January

00:27:28   because we will assume that they had prototypes and they knew roughly what it was going to

00:27:32   be right now.

00:27:33   Well, but they don't show it though, do they?

00:27:35   Yeah, but the only difference is because they have an existing product that they don't want

00:27:38   to cannibalize.

00:27:39   This, the Apple Watch when they announced it didn't exist, right?

00:27:42   I mean, it didn't really exist.

00:27:44   It was still being worked on.

00:27:47   And so I'm not sure that's entirely fair

00:27:50   to start the countdown early for the announcement.

00:27:53   Certainly story-wise, narrative-wise, just like,

00:27:57   oh, the Apple Watch, I've heard of that.

00:27:59   Hasn't that been around a couple of years?

00:28:01   That will absolutely be the case.

00:28:02   Our conception of the Apple Watch

00:28:04   will have been the same for two years.

00:28:05   But I would give them a little bit of credit.

00:28:08   I mean, the hardware only started shipping

00:28:11   less than a year ago. So before that it was, it was, you know, in process.

00:28:16   I do this more as like, instead of more as a way of trying to wonder if the Apple Watch

00:28:22   will become a yearly product or not. Because I don't know if it needs to.

00:28:30   I feel like it really doesn't. But we also don't know how major an Apple Watch 2 is,

00:28:37   And they will have done, if they do a spring refresh of materials and bands and things

00:28:43   like that, then that will have been its third kind of product line refresh on top of the

00:28:49   existing hardware.

00:28:50   So what's the cycle there?

00:28:52   Is it a six-month cycle or a four-month cycle, except the base hardware doesn't change?

00:28:58   And how big is the change come September if we get to that point?

00:29:02   Is it a real rethinking of the Apple Watch in terms of the hardware or is it just sort

00:29:07   of a slight improvement?

00:29:09   There's a lot of information that's still out here, but I kind of agree with you.

00:29:13   I don't feel like this is a product that needs to get updated, certainly not every year,

00:29:17   but can you go two years?

00:29:19   Maybe you can if you're, every six months, if you're refreshing materials and updating

00:29:25   the software.

00:29:26   >> I feel like that this is a product that is different, and it's different because Apple

00:29:31   thinks about it as a fashion product because they don't need to, you know, they release

00:29:36   a new iPhone every year for whatever reason they do that. But now it's kind of expected

00:29:42   because people want a new phone every year, right? So like they want the new thing, you

00:29:47   know, and Apple builds their marketing campaigns around it, you know, like the whole success

00:29:50   campaign is like everything about it is, you know, would I say everything about it is different

00:29:55   or something along those lines, I can't remember the exact tagline. But you know, kind of talking

00:30:01   about the fact that they keep doing it, they keep refreshing it.

00:30:05   But the Apple Watch, you just have to keep bringing out new bands, right?

00:30:09   And you bring out new bands and you put a new band on your watch, it looks like a different

00:30:13   watch.

00:30:14   And I think that you can keep doing that, keep it in line with season changes like the

00:30:18   fashion industry, have the fall collection and have the summer collection.

00:30:22   And I think that that would really work.

00:30:24   You know, you do that a couple of times, maybe two or three times and then bring out a new

00:30:27   body.

00:30:28   And then Apple can still bring in the good money from the accessory sales.

00:30:34   Yeah, this is a different move for them, but I think that the idea that you can do new

00:30:41   watch bands and call it a sort of product line update, it's a very different thing

00:30:46   than, I guess you could change the iPod colors, they did that a couple of times, but it's

00:30:51   more like that, where this is a product where you can change some things around it and make

00:30:56   some new materials or some new colors and that's fine because I don't think people are

00:31:02   buying a new one of these, are going to buy a new one of these every six months or every

00:31:06   year or maybe even every two years.

00:31:08   So you just kind of keep iterating and providing people with more options and different options

00:31:14   and they see something they like, they're going to buy it and it's still a work in progress.

00:31:19   Apple may be still trying to figure this out too, right?

00:31:22   Because what works in the tech industry or in the fashion industry may not be the same

00:31:27   rules that something like an Apple Watch follows.

00:31:30   It may be like a completely different beast.

00:31:33   We don't know.

00:31:35   So these updates are rumoured to be debuting in the week of March 14th, which kind of lines

00:31:42   up with 9.3 as a spring release.

00:31:45   Because you would assume that these new devices would come along with an update, right?

00:31:50   description right the update ios to go in these new devices so 93 being teased by apples coming

00:31:56   in the spring lines up with kind of a march event to a later in march early april release of d5se

00:32:02   do you think that if this is what they have they would do an in-person event is this enough for an

00:32:10   an event? Well, what is that bar? Where do you cross the bar? Exactly. What is the bar

00:32:21   at which you have to start inviting press to come to a place? Not to go back to ancient

00:32:27   history but the reason that I wasn't at the original iMac event is that the two previous

00:32:31   Apple events that they called press to with no information about what was going to be

00:32:35   discussed were stinkers they had nothing interesting to say and since then every

00:32:40   apple event has been substantive that was that was a key rule so I don't know

00:32:46   how you define it but there needs to be enough for you to feel like it's it's an

00:32:52   event so is it if it's new watch bands and you know and yeah the new old phone

00:33:00   own, is that enough for a media event or, you know, and who knows, maybe there are Mac

00:33:06   announcements that they throw in there too. I don't know.

00:33:09   There's also rumblings of an iPad Air 3, but apparently, again according to German, he

00:33:14   has no confirmation on that. Like he knows it's being worked on, but it's unclear whether

00:33:19   that's ready.

00:33:20   Right, because we talked about that being something that you could potentially move

00:33:23   into a spring timeframe instead of the fall. They don't all have to be in sync and the

00:33:29   the iPad Pro led the way, so maybe the Air gets revved in the spring rather than waiting

00:33:33   for the fall, and they turn that product line around and do it that way.

00:33:37   I feel like an Air 3, a watch, and watch updates and the 5 SE is enough for an on-campus event

00:33:44   at least, you know?

00:33:46   Well, sure, an on-campus event would be easier, although that's a very small event that's

00:33:50   got iPhone in the name.

00:33:51   I mean, the problem is whenever there's an iPhone something, everybody gets...

00:33:55   And just at this point, an Apple event has a level of hype around it that you do not

00:34:00   want people walking away saying, "Why did they call that event?"

00:34:03   So I think that's a good question.

00:34:08   They have to have a story to tell.

00:34:11   And what Apple has shown lately is that they can roll products out and work with members

00:34:16   of the press to give them some exclusives and get coverage without ever having to do

00:34:21   an event.

00:34:23   So it's possible that they wouldn't have to.

00:34:26   It's also possible that they could.

00:34:28   These events have value to Apple because they do generate coverage and they focus people

00:34:34   on Apple for a little while, but there are also a lot of effort to put out.

00:34:39   You've got to invite people and set up the venue and rent a venue if you're doing it

00:34:42   off campus.

00:34:43   There are all sorts of things that go into that, and you are raising expectations, and

00:34:48   then you need to deliver, and you need to have everything done in time, and you need

00:34:50   to have your shipping worked out.

00:34:52   So it's a lot easier to just sort of announce products one by one by press release and briefings

00:34:57   and things like that.

00:34:58   So I don't know.

00:35:00   It would be unusual, I would say, for Apple to just go for six months without doing an

00:35:04   event of some kind, but they totally could.

00:35:08   And you're right, it's that what passes the wait test.

00:35:10   If it's a revised iPhone 5 and some changes to the Apple Watch bands and an update to

00:35:17   make the iPad Air more like the iPad Pro.

00:35:21   Is that an event in and of itself, or would you need something else to really blend it

00:35:27   the way that it needs to have?

00:35:29   Not every event has to be the iPhone launch, right?

00:35:33   And no other event can be that.

00:35:35   But you kind of always want something new, right?

00:35:39   And revisions to old products is not something new.

00:35:43   And that would be my hesitation with something like that.

00:35:46   I feel like you need to come in with something that's actually new and not just an iPad Air

00:35:51   that's more like the Pro and an iPhone 5 that's more like the 6 and Apple Watch bands that

00:35:58   are more of what you've already got.

00:36:02   I think as well with Apple moving more towards the "everything in September" schedule,

00:36:08   they're moving even more towards that.

00:36:10   I think in the new age of Apple working in the media and doing things that we don't expect,

00:36:16   right, which I think 2015 was definitely the year of and 2016 is continuing to be, I think

00:36:23   it would be prudent to have products just appear on the website with some nice videos.

00:36:29   You know, to be like, look, we're doing some different stuff now.

00:36:33   So they give themselves the ability to do more of that later on because that September

00:36:38   you know, we're looking like iPhones, iPads, Apple TV, and Apple Watch now.

00:36:43   Like that is getting real big and the last one was very long, right, for that reason.

00:36:49   So I think it would be a good idea, as I look at it being a good idea for Apple to show

00:36:55   we are not afraid to just put things out into the world with some devices that we sent out to

00:37:01   BuzzFeed and the New York Times, right? I think that that is a good way of kind of showing a bit

00:37:07   more of a change from them and kind of being like, yeah, we don't need to invite the world's media

00:37:13   to the Flint Center to do everything. Well, and I feel like there is probably another Apple event

00:37:19   that is the campus event that is like a Mac announcement event. That's the smaller scale,

00:37:26   it's not about the iPhone and they if presumably at some point this year they'll do something

00:37:31   interesting with the Mac line and and we'll see that and that'll be an event and that that event

00:37:38   is always much smaller but they usually do something like that they might do that again

00:37:43   but yeah I agree with you I feel like maybe they don't need to do these events because they have

00:37:51   that they are really trying all of these other tools PR tools to get the the

00:37:55   message out you know they'll they'll do a briefing with under embargo with some

00:38:00   key partners and then they will brief everybody else in the gap after the

00:38:04   embargo drops and before the product ships and then they'll ship the product

00:38:08   and they'll get coverage and they can do it whenever they want if it if it gets

00:38:12   delayed a week they'll just delay it a week and you know have to worry about it

00:38:15   so it's a good question about whether we're gonna see more Apple announcements

00:38:20   fewer, will we only get WWDC and the Fall event and maybe a Mac event at some point?

00:38:27   I don't know.

00:38:28   This is totally off topic, but whilst we're talking about Apple getting people together,

00:38:32   I had a thought.

00:38:33   So Google I/O is moving to Mountain View in May.

00:38:37   They are not going to be at the Moscone anymore.

00:38:39   Do you think that when Campus 2 opens, they'll continue to do WWDC in Moscone?

00:38:46   I don't know enough.

00:38:47   I mean, Apple Campus 2 has a giant presentation venue.

00:38:53   I thought about this.

00:38:54   I actually did think about this, the same thing.

00:38:56   Would Apple do WWDC on campus?

00:38:57   And I think the answer is probably no, but because there are so many people at WWDC and

00:39:04   I'm not sure that the Apple Campus, even the new one, would be able to work in that

00:39:10   way.

00:39:11   I don't know what the hotel situation is like around that area.

00:39:14   I assume not good.

00:39:16   good is the yeah that's exactly I was talking to people in the relay slack we were talking

00:39:21   about people like the material hosts coming from for Google I/O and and in Mountain View

00:39:26   and they said you know what are the hotels around Mountain View and how do you get to

00:39:29   Mountain View if you stay in San Francisco and I'm like you take the Google bus maybe

00:39:32   because like the train doesn't run there the train will only get you close ish and then

00:39:37   you have to take a bus or a cab or something it's it's problematic and you know Silicon

00:39:43   Valley's built in the suburbs. Those are not cities, they're suburbs. And it's problematic

00:39:49   that because of the founders of those companies growing up in the suburbs and becoming the

00:39:54   founders of those companies that you now have these companies that are in the suburbs instead

00:39:59   of in something like in downtown San Francisco where it's much more dense. And so it would

00:40:06   be a challenge. So I'm doubtful, but it's, you know, you never know. That event is so

00:40:11   out of control, I think it's a better question to say at what point does WWDC become something

00:40:16   altogether different because such a small fraction of the developer audience can go

00:40:22   to it and they are streaming all of the stuff, if not live, then like next day.

00:40:29   So at some point, why are we doing WWDC as a physical event at all other than it is great

00:40:36   for all of us who come, but in terms of attendees, it's a tiny percentage who actually get

00:40:41   of the developer community who actually can get in the door.

00:40:44   It's getting smaller and smaller every year as well, right? When they say about how many,

00:40:48   the massive percentage of first-timers that there is every year.

00:40:52   So it's just showing how many more and more and more people every single year are

00:40:56   developing on Apple's platform.

00:40:58   And the I/O, Google I/O keynote

00:41:01   is happening at Shoreline, which is the amphitheater behind the Google

00:41:05   Plex. And that's like where rock concerts are held.

00:41:09   so really it's got a huge that that's my understanding I think that's where

00:41:12   they're doing it is a shoreline

00:41:14   uh... and

00:41:15   imagine that like

00:41:17   okay everybody wants to come to our developer conference sure you can come

00:41:21   we have a big bowl with uh...

00:41:23   with thousands of people in it

00:41:25   so so come on down yeah it's at shoreline. Please we need to fill the seats.

00:41:30   They say Google I/O I think

00:41:33   as a whole is at shoreline and I'm unclear whether they are like are they

00:41:36   going to do breakout sessions on the lawn or something? I don't know how that's going

00:41:40   to work. But anyway, it will be interesting to see how that works. And I do wonder about

00:41:46   that with Apple just in general. I'm not sure. I mean Apple famously said, "Oh, we don't

00:41:51   need to do trade shows anymore. The Apple store is better than any trade show." And

00:41:56   they dumped Mackerel Expo and all of that. So this is Apple's own show. But at some point,

00:42:03   I don't know at some point I think it's worth asking the question of like what's the value

00:42:06   of this if it's an incredibly hot ticket to the point where you can't you know you you

00:42:11   basically can't meet demand there it's impossible for you to have enough seats anywhere for

00:42:17   this event and you know you can do it all they're doing the right things we're just

00:42:22   putting all the videos online and that's great so that even if you can't get a seat you can

00:42:26   see it all you could take the time off from work and just stay home and watch the videos

00:42:30   and you would see WWDC you wouldn't get to the social aspect of it but you would get

00:42:34   all the content but so is the whole thing just there to provide an excuse for some subset

00:42:41   to meet in person is that is that the reason that that they're going to the you know trouble

00:42:46   of holding that event at all because at some point literally everything is on the on the

00:42:50   internet are the people who are there just the live studio audience to provide applause

00:42:56   at the beginning and end to make it seem more realistic. I don't know. It's just,

00:43:00   uh, you know, it's probably not going to happen anytime soon, but it's pretty funny.

00:43:03   I expect at least that all, at least media events will probably move there.

00:43:08   Oh, certainly. That's the reason that the, the, uh, new theater is being built,

00:43:14   is that town hall is incredibly tiny and, uh, they want to be able to do media events on campus,

00:43:20   but that's not WWDC, right? Media events are controllable and they're very small.

00:43:25   So I think that's for sure going to happen, that as soon as Campus 2 is open, all the

00:43:29   Apple Media events will be on the Apple Campus.

00:43:33   And then they control the venue.

00:43:34   They don't have to book the venue.

00:43:36   They can hold those meetings anytime they want.

00:43:38   They'll be able to invite the press and not like say, "Well, we can only invite 200

00:43:42   press this time because our little theater just can't hold any more people."

00:43:46   They can invite the big crowd and they control every aspect of it because it's their real

00:43:53   estate.

00:43:54   They literally can control everything that happens there, which they can't do at these

00:43:58   outside venues.

00:43:59   They, you know, they're renting the space for, you know, a few days before the event.

00:44:04   There's only so much they can do.

00:44:05   Do you have anything more you want to say on this?

00:44:07   I don't think so.

00:44:08   I mean, I guess it's rumor season now.

00:44:10   Okay, everybody put on your, I don't know what, your rumor pants.

00:44:14   It's rumor season.

00:44:15   It's safe to wear them now.

00:44:17   Germin, you know, Germin's reports are usually very, very accurate.

00:44:20   Especially recently.

00:44:21   He's untouchable, right?

00:44:22   He's untouchable, right?

00:44:24   No, he has great sources.

00:44:25   I think for something this far out,

00:44:27   even you can see how he words things.

00:44:31   Things are still in flux.

00:44:32   Cool.

00:44:33   Things can change.

00:44:33   And that's, a lot of times people like Mark Gurman

00:44:35   are I think unfairly graded as being wrong

00:44:40   when something they predict that's way out

00:44:43   doesn't come to pass.

00:44:44   But if you look at Gurman, as his reports go along,

00:44:48   I really get the sense that he is reporting

00:44:51   on what is generally thought to be happening at Apple, but it's a long time between now

00:44:55   and the fall, and things can change, right? So if we listen to this podcast before the

00:45:02   Apple event in September, we may say, "Oh wow, a lot of this stuff isn't going to happen,"

00:45:08   but that may be stuff that happens in the next three or four months that changes what

00:45:12   the output is. His information, though, is generally good. I would think it's far more

00:45:17   likely than not that this is what the current thinking is at Apple about all

00:45:20   this stuff. All right, do you want to take a break? Yeah. I wish to do some Ask Upgrade. I

00:45:26   think that would be a great idea. Ask Upgrade, by the way, this, I don't know if

00:45:30   you knew this, Myke. I don't know if I did. This edition of Ask Upgrade brought to

00:45:34   you by our good friends at MailRoute. Yay! Yay! IT departments are always being

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00:46:03   Postini, MX Logic, there's definitely a lot of email products out there that are being

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00:48:08   like that that is a I like that but I'm pleased that they do that yeah we just

00:48:13   had schema in the chat room ask any thoughts on what tomorrow's earnings are

00:48:17   gonna look like I mean this is what I expect more money than ever before more

00:48:22   iPhone sold than ever before China is a burgeoning a market and the one other

00:48:28   thing that I expect is this is the first quarter up on the iPad that there's been

00:48:33   in a long time. I think that the iPad Pro probably has a pretty good profit margin because

00:48:41   it is an expensive device and I think they will have sold enough of them. I think a change

00:48:46   in that vertical, the iPad vertical, I'm going to go with that. I think a change in that

00:48:54   will...

00:48:55   So reversing that kind of couple of years of lack of growth.

00:49:00   Yeah, I don't think it's going to be huge, but I think it's going to be a tick up.

00:49:06   I think it's going to be a buck in with the trend.

00:49:08   I don't know if it will continue, but I think this is going to be the first upswing on the

00:49:13   iPad, I think in maybe the last couple of years or something, at least maybe the last

00:49:18   five or six quarters.

00:49:19   Well, it's the holiday quarter, so it'll be interesting to see if it is up year over

00:49:22   year from the holiday quarter last year.

00:49:24   Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

00:49:26   Not a bad prediction.

00:49:27   I think if it's not, that is a bigger problem than there has been in any other quarter over

00:49:33   the last couple of years.

00:49:34   I think you're right too.

00:49:35   I think since the holiday quarter, it's going to be the biggest one ever, and it's going

00:49:39   to be the biggest sales of everything ever.

00:49:42   And then what's going to happen, my guess, given what everybody's talking about, is that

00:49:47   they're going to release their guidance for the following quarter, and if it shows even

00:49:52   a hint that they think there might be softness in iPhone sales in the next quarter that the

00:50:00   stock market will go crazy and Apple stock will get hammered.

00:50:06   And I'm not an Apple investor nor do I pretend to be an investment expert but it looks like

00:50:10   there's a lot of there are a lot of knives being sharpened over Apple's iPhone growth.

00:50:15   They're concerned that Apple's iPhone growth is not continuing but it's not like not like

00:50:20   it won't continue to be a great business for Apple, but when you're an investor you're

00:50:24   looking for growth and growth is what's priced, usually is priced into stock prices, is this

00:50:29   assumption of a certain level of growth. And when that growth starts to tail off, people

00:50:33   start to tail off their opinion of that stock because they're like, "Well, this company

00:50:38   is running out of growth and it's going to be what they call, I guess, a value stock

00:50:42   instead of a growth stock." And I think there's going to be a lot of talk of that tomorrow

00:50:46   even if it's record iPhone sales. In fact, I would even predict there will be a

00:50:50   bunch of really grumpy people saying, "Oh sure, have your best quarter ever and the

00:50:54   best iPhone sales ever and why is the stock getting hammered?" And that would be

00:50:58   the reason why is if there's truth to this sort of rumbling that iPhone

00:51:04   numbers going forward might not be quite as good as Apple had hoped that they

00:51:09   would be. That there might be a little softness in the in the iPhone sales

00:51:12   market or alternately maybe that maybe they will put their you know their boot

00:51:17   down and say nope it's doing great and just essentially dare the people who

00:51:24   made those reports to to show their work because that would be interesting too.

00:51:28   I have no way of even being close to knowing this I don't think we're at that

00:51:33   point yet but it's gonna happen there is gonna be a quarter where iPhone sales

00:51:39   are down like it has to happen eventually but I I would be surprised if

00:51:45   it was now but I'm also not an analyst so I don't pay enough attention well

00:51:49   it's interesting when you start talking about what what the question was what

00:51:52   what tomorrow's earnings will be and you immediately started to talk about sort

00:51:56   of like this product doing this and this product doing that and I think that that

00:52:00   says something about who we are yeah which is people who care about the

00:52:05   products. I mean, like I said, I'm not an Apple investor, nor am I an Apple investment

00:52:12   analyst. I care about the Apple financial results because I'm interested in seeing

00:52:17   where Apple's businesses are and where they're going in terms of the products and how they

00:52:21   make their decisions about where the products go. And that's it.

00:52:26   That's what I care about. The money moves the product, and that's what I care about.

00:52:31   they will put their money where the products are.

00:52:35   Right, because Apple stock has actually gotten, it has not performed well over the last year

00:52:42   and I hear people complaining about that and I totally don't care about it either and if

00:52:46   you care about it because you're an Apple investor then fair enough you should care

00:52:49   about that, you're invested in Apple but just so you know where we're coming from, we don't

00:52:53   care about that and quite frankly, even if I were to be an investor in technology stocks

00:53:00   which I'm not and I will not allow myself to be because I write about it for a living

00:53:03   and I think that that's a problematic, that's a conflict of interest.

00:53:07   It is possible you could affect it.

00:53:09   I will, I will, yeah.

00:53:10   It's not possible.

00:53:11   It's not, yeah, it's less likely for these big companies than it would be for smaller

00:53:15   companies, but it's possible.

00:53:16   And then, you know, you just, why would you say something bad about a company that you

00:53:19   want to grow and you want to say good things about them so that they grow?

00:53:22   And I just, I don't want to even touch that.

00:53:24   That's, that's crazy.

00:53:25   But here's, here's the thing.

00:53:27   I'm not sure Apple stock has ever been logical.

00:53:30   I mean there have been plenty of times where you've looked at the stock performance of

00:53:34   Apple and you're like why?

00:53:37   There have been arguments that it's been underpriced at a lot of points and so I'm

00:53:44   not sure that's a stock that I would ever put a lot of faith in anyway because I'm

00:53:50   not sure the investors understand Apple and so they make decisions based on what they

00:53:54   perceived to be where Apple's going but I'm not sure it's based on an actual understanding

00:53:59   of that company and so you know irrationality driving your stock price is problematic and

00:54:07   I think it's good that Apple whenever Apple stock goes down Apple buys a lot of Apple

00:54:10   stock back and I think that's actually a would be a would be a silver lining they use some

00:54:15   of that cash to just buy back the stock when it when they think it's undervalued.

00:54:18   I just wish they would buy it all back and yeah I know we don't have to deal with this.

00:54:23   The problem if they went private is that we would then they would never tell us anything

00:54:26   about how they're doing.

00:54:27   They would just it would be all Bezos charts all the time.

00:54:30   Yeah.

00:54:31   And from Apple it would be even worse than from Jeff Bezos.

00:54:33   It would be it would be you know we think we're doing great here's a chart here's that chart

00:54:39   about how how much faster the iPad is than the original iPhone.

00:54:43   Okay.

00:54:44   So at least at least they have to tell us how they're doing that's the that's the brilliant

00:54:49   thing about Apple being a public company is they actually do have to disclose things about

00:54:53   their business. And that's why you see every Apple site out there with all those charts

00:54:58   that we're all going to make again on Tuesday the 26th because that's our one time where

00:55:05   there's government mandated disclosure of Apple about its business and you know they

00:55:09   would rather not do it but they have to it's the law so we get to see it.

00:55:13   Yeah, yeah. You know, the only thing is like the money and the numbers is like whatever.

00:55:20   I just like to see the trends and what's been sold and stuff like that. Because the money's

00:55:24   so big I can't even comprehend it, right? Like I have no comprehension of the amount

00:55:28   of money that they bring in. Like $45 billion a quarter? Like what is that? It's like magic.

00:55:35   It doesn't even really exist, it's so large, you know?

00:55:39   Yeah. It's, yeah. It's play money.

00:55:42   Yeah, it is effectively is because they can't even spend it, right?

00:55:45   Like they're just sitting on this war chest of hundreds of billions of dollars because what are you going to do with that money?

00:55:50   That's the funny thing about apple. It's like what we're getting into a completely random topic now, but

00:55:56   What do you do? There's nothing you can do with it. Will you buy a country?

00:55:59   Like what are you going to do with that amount of money? It's at a certain point

00:56:02   It's like you there's nothing you can even do with it. It's just too much. Yeah. Yeah save it for a rainy day

00:56:08   I mean, I do wonder it's like, you know invested in a car company

00:56:11   you know, build a car in your spare time and weather the storm, if there's a storm in the

00:56:18   future, use it for R&D.

00:56:22   Yeah.

00:56:25   But then again, there may be a moment where there's an acquisition they want to make that

00:56:30   they're able to pull the trigger on because they have that cash.

00:56:35   Yeah, yeah, definitely.

00:56:37   definitely. Alright let's move on anyway because we have more Ask Upgrade to do. Andrew wants

00:56:42   to know do we think that they'll ever be picture in picture on the Apple TV?

00:56:46   I'm going to say no. Oh really? I would have thought this would have made the perfect sense

00:56:52   right so because TVs have this don't they? Picture in picture. Well they used to but

00:56:56   they basically don't anymore. Oh okay. It's a feature that one it's a feature that very

00:57:01   few people used and two it requires you to have multiple sources that are being played

00:57:04   at the same time, which on modern digital boxes is actually more than the hardware can

00:57:09   often take. You know, they're optimized to play back one signal at a time and not two.

00:57:15   And so back when it was sort of two antenna inputs, they were like, "Hey, we could do

00:57:18   two pictures." But those have all sort of fallen out. And I'm not quite sure what the

00:57:23   use case would be on the Apple TV. I mean, it's possible. If what Andrew means is like

00:57:28   the idea that you could have a, you know, video playing in the corner while you're looking

00:57:33   through the app interface to find a different video to play or something like that. Well,

00:57:37   sure. That's what I was thinking. Like how it was on the iPad. Like on Netflix or something.

00:57:41   Yeah. Where Netflix is playing or YouTube is playing and you're still able to find like

00:57:46   the next thing. But, um, yeah, sure. But, uh, I don't know. I, I, I just doubt that that's

00:57:53   a priority feature. Uh, Wes would like to know, I like this question. Uh, any tips for

00:57:59   a married couple about to start their first podcast together.

00:58:02   So you seem to have some tips here.

00:58:04   I had I've been thinking about this today.

00:58:07   So I have four points that I want to say to Wes and his partner.

00:58:12   I think you should record some test episodes so you can both get used to it.

00:58:15   If you've never done any podcasting before you can get used to what it sounds like to

00:58:18   hear yourself.

00:58:19   You can get used to using the microphone and kind of playing around with it and trying

00:58:23   to find a little bit about what it is you want to talk about and how you want to talk

00:58:27   about it.

00:58:28   your personalities come through so I will recommend you know if you don't

00:58:32   already listen to top four with Tiff and Marco Arment because their relationship

00:58:38   is the thing that's so fantastic about that show you hear them as a couple and

00:58:44   it's fantastic you know it's the same as with Phil and Lisa ruin the movies on

00:58:48   the incomparable you hear the relationship between the two and that's

00:58:52   what makes the show so brilliant right because you get chemistry at its highest

00:58:56   level which I think is what makes podcasts great anyway and a couple have the best kind

00:59:02   of chemistry. Even better than me and you Jason.

00:59:04   Hard to believe. Don't overcomplicate the technology part. Don't worry about getting

00:59:10   the best microphone. Don't worry about like finding the best hosting. Just find what works,

00:59:14   find what's affordable and go from there. And most importantly, and I give this piece

00:59:19   of advice to everyone considering podcasting as a thing, treat it as an enjoyable hobby.

00:59:25   Don't think about how you're gonna make money.

00:59:29   Yeah, because you probably won't.

00:59:31   Yeah, this is a hobby. That's how I started it. It's how everybody that I know started it.

00:59:37   I mean, there are still people that I know today that do podcasts just for fun.

00:59:43   And they have very successful businesses. You know, there are shows that I do just for fun still.

00:59:49   I have shows that we take no ads on because I like to do them because that's part of the hobby side

00:59:55   of the business that I run. You've got to remember that first and foremost because

00:59:59   if you start thinking about the business from day one I don't think you're ever

01:00:03   gonna fully enjoy it. Yeah I agree I agree with everything you said.

01:00:10   Hardware wise you know you might want to think about the microphone although if

01:00:14   you are it is your loved one then you can get up you can get up close to a

01:00:18   single mic if you need to. You've got like a Yeti there's a there's a two

01:00:22   cross mode basically where you can sit on opposite sides of it and it records

01:00:25   and yeah you can go up to having like two microphones set up if you really

01:00:29   want to but I would worry about it too much and I think your advice is just so

01:00:33   great that do it do it because you like it you know half the podcast I do I do

01:00:37   not to make money but because it's fun which is good because they don't make

01:00:40   any money so I you know I've got three podcasts for three or four that make

01:00:46   that make money and and you know that's that's great because I do like ten of

01:00:51   them. So, just have fun with it and then the audience will know that you're having fun

01:00:56   with it. And if it becomes successful creatively or with an audience or financially at some

01:01:04   point that's awesome. But that's not the reason to do it. I do, I get those questions, I'm

01:01:09   sure you do too, which is I've been thinking of quitting my job and starting a podcast

01:01:13   to make a living. Like no, don't.

01:01:15   Well, not even so much that, but just, you know, we see a lot of people contact me to

01:01:21   want to be on Relay or I just get people ask me questions all the time, which I'm more

01:01:25   than happy to do.

01:01:27   And I actually will include in the show notes what I include for a lot of people on emails

01:01:31   is the talk that I gave at the Apple store about how I got started in podcasting because

01:01:37   there's a bunch of just like little tips about hosting and tools and stuff that you should

01:01:41   use and what I consider is a good start for people. But I see so many, you know, oh and

01:01:49   then they mention monetization or they mention ads or sponsorship in it. Like I just don't

01:01:53   think you should think about that in the beginning because really it should be a hobby, I think.

01:01:58   Because I think people think about this less when they're starting a blog, I think, about

01:02:03   how much money they're going to make and I don't really know why that is.

01:02:07   Do not start a creative endeavor because you want to make, as a career move, especially

01:02:15   as a financial calculation, because it's a lot harder than it looks.

01:02:19   And with podcasts you have to build up a very large audience before you could even possibly

01:02:23   make money at it.

01:02:24   And what's the quality of your thing going to be if it's just a money-making vehicle

01:02:28   instead of something with something to say?

01:02:32   And unless you're somebody who's famous in some other realm and can kind of transfer

01:02:35   that in. If that's the case, then maybe you've got something to create. But even there, I

01:02:39   would say, think long and hard about it and do something because you care about it and

01:02:45   you like it and not just because it's some sort of transaction. So I'm sure Wes is not

01:02:49   planning it that way, but I think it's good advice because we see that from a lot of people.

01:02:54   And don't overcomplicate the technology part, too, is absolutely true. Keep it simple, record

01:03:00   some test episodes, let your personalities come through, I think you got it, Myke. I

01:03:05   endorse the Myke Hurley podcast plan.

01:03:09   Benjamin has written to say, "My mom is familiar with a PC and it's time for her to move to

01:03:14   a new device. Should she get a MacBook or an iPad Pro or Apple Pencil?"

01:03:19   Now, we don't know anything about Benjamin's mom.

01:03:22   So this is a difficult question to ask, but it's one that I'm starting to see a lot more.

01:03:28   what do they do? If this person is surfing the internet, maybe doing some email, maybe

01:03:35   watching some YouTube videos, playing some games, I would say you probably want an iOS

01:03:41   device at this point for stuff like that. That's how I feel. Just the casual user, these

01:03:48   devices are way easier to use. They take a lot less technical support from you and they

01:03:54   They are a lot less risky in things that can go wrong with them and they are more resilient,

01:04:00   they're easier to move around, they take a lot less setting up.

01:04:04   I would say go iOS in that scenario.

01:04:06   >> Yeah, also you don't have the metaphor problem of going from a PC to a Mac where

01:04:13   it's sort of alike but different.

01:04:15   >> Yeah, yeah.

01:04:16   >> It's just totally, it's a break, it's totally different.

01:04:20   And if that's their use case, I mean I'm down here in Arizona visiting my mom and she started

01:04:26   with an iBook and had Mac laptops for years.

01:04:32   And the last time I was down here I took her old laptop away because she's got an iPad

01:04:37   now and she doesn't need anything else and she doesn't want anything else.

01:04:42   Now if they're like a serious heavy Microsoft Office user or something like that then they

01:04:47   They should yeah although I could actually argue that Microsoft Office is better on the

01:04:50   iPad than on the Mac but you know I could see there are some cases where we're getting

01:04:55   a MacBook but you're asking that your mom to transfer platforms and strangely the iPad

01:05:03   I feel like is a better transfer location like you said because it's because it's so

01:05:09   different that I feel like it's going to be less jarring than having to figure out well

01:05:12   you know why does it look like this if she's so if she if she's a PC power user

01:05:18   I would say she should just get another PC and if she's not and she's just using

01:05:22   it because it's her computer to do internet right then that that is like

01:05:26   Myke said a perfect use for for an iPad and finally today is a question comes

01:05:32   from Chris I cannot believe we've not been asked this before now it's hard to

01:05:35   believe if you guys could have any superpower what would it be so I used to

01:05:40   want to control time. I said this on analog once, it sounds so terrible, but I now kind

01:05:47   of do control my own time because the reason I wanted to control time is I wanted to sleep

01:05:52   more and I wanted more time to work on my side business. But now I kind of can choose

01:05:56   when I wake up and how much work I do, right? I mean, what happens is if I choose to do

01:06:02   no work, I make no money, right? I'm not in a world of like lollipops and rainbows here,

01:06:07   I have the ability to set my own schedule now, so I kind of have what I always wanted.

01:06:11   That was the only reason I wanted that ability. So now I'd probably go with flight because

01:06:16   I spend a lot of money on flights every year and it would be nice to have to do that.

01:06:20   Yeah, I keep, you know, the easy ones are flight or invisibility, something like that.

01:06:24   I think that would be very interesting, but I actually like your idea and so I'm going

01:06:28   to crib off of that and say I would love the ability to control where I go in time and

01:06:33   space so I could have access so I could go back in time and like see how things really

01:06:38   happened at any particular time in any place and that would be great.

01:06:44   So time and space so I could sort of teleport and pop in and out.

01:06:49   Basically I want to be Doctor Who without even needing the equipment of the time machine.

01:06:53   Just let me go where I want to and see what happened for real and I think that would be

01:06:56   pretty cool because it drives me crazy.

01:06:58   Every now and then I read these stories about ancient history and how there are things that

01:07:05   we just don't know about what happened in these particular events because the recollections

01:07:11   are lost and there's just sort of like a fifth hand version of the story.

01:07:15   The Library of Alexandria was lost and some of the books got out but some of the books

01:07:20   were lost forever.

01:07:21   I love the idea of being able to just kind of pop back there and say, "Oh, that's

01:07:27   it happened and or or take those books and pop back forward again before they burn and

01:07:34   increase sort of like human knowledge I think that would be really awesome plus I could

01:07:36   go in the future and see what's going on up there.

01:07:38   See I don't know if I want to move through time like that that's scary to me my control

01:07:44   of time was just being able to stop it that was all I wanted I did I don't if I could

01:07:51   go backwards and forwards in time Jason I would be creating wormholes and rifts all

01:07:56   over the place. I just want to travel. I just want to go here and there and see what's going

01:08:01   on.

01:08:02   Oh no, that's good, but you just clearly have more self-control than me. Instead of editing

01:08:08   podcasts, I would just go back in time to change what I said. I would be that kind of

01:08:12   terrible about it.

01:08:13   Wow, that is a bad power. I always used to joke, I think I might have even said that

01:08:17   here before, that the worst superpower would be short-range time travel. You could change

01:08:24   the outcome of the future but it would be like only minor things that would generally

01:08:27   be allowed so you could go like an hour back in time but what's that like, you know, check

01:08:33   the left tire, it's a little bit low. What could you do with limited time travel? Don't

01:08:41   eat that egg, it's rotten. It's the worst kind of power. I want ultimate mastery of

01:08:47   the universe. That's it. Easy.

01:08:50   Perfect. Alright, I think that brings us to the end of this week's episode. If you want

01:08:54   to find show notes for today, go on over to relay.fm/upgrade/73. Jason writes, no matter

01:09:01   where he is, whether it's in San Francisco or in Arizona, over at sixcolors.com and he

01:09:06   has many other podcasts including Liftoff and Clockwise on Relay FM. I'm looking forward

01:09:12   to the next Liftoff. I'm hoping to hear some New Planet discussion.

01:09:17   We have a lot of things to talk about on the next lift off.

01:09:20   Yes, absolutely.

01:09:21   Yeah, I bet.

01:09:22   I have to put a link in the show notes to your Yahoo article about that actually, because

01:09:28   I was explaining all of this to Adina over the weekend because I read your great article

01:09:33   on Yahoo.

01:09:34   Is it Yahoo?

01:09:35   Nice.

01:09:36   Yahoo tech is where it's sort of hosted, but they want to do more space stuff, so I'm writing

01:09:39   space, some space stories for them.

01:09:41   I sounded very smart, right? Because I could explain everything that happened in the space

01:09:48   news about the new planet. So go check that out. I'll put that in the show notes so you

01:09:52   can go and read that. But also of course you can go and find Jason on the incomparable

01:09:56   and he's @jsnell on Twitter. I am @imike, I M Y K E. And I have recently been dipping

01:10:03   my toe in the water of trying to put more things on the internet. And I have changed

01:10:08   the URL, Jason, it is, you can now find my Tumblr blog at mikewasright.com.

01:10:13   Mm-hmm. I noticed.

01:10:16   It was like, I've had the redirect going for a bit, and then I was just like, oh, forget

01:10:21   it, I'm going all in on this. So as of this morning, it's now mikewasright.com. It's my

01:10:28   personal brand.

01:10:30   It's good.

01:10:33   Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode. Thank you so much to FreshBooks

01:10:36   and how we're off of sponsoring it. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Mr. Snow.

01:10:40   - Goodbye, Mr. Hurley.

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