72: I Spent Four Months Not Buying It


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade #72.

00:00:11   Today's show is brought to you by PDF Pen 7 from Smile and Squarespace.

00:00:16   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:18   Hi Myke, how's it going?

00:00:20   Pretty well, pretty well.

00:00:21   We were just discussing on the live stream before that we're both drinking

00:00:25   caffeinated beverages today during the show, which is irregular, so expect a severe uptick

00:00:32   in energy around topic number one.

00:00:35   It's irregular for you, it's not irregular for me.

00:00:37   Oh, yeah, because it's very early for you, isn't it?

00:00:40   It's Monday morning, I always have a cup of tea with me, very British, of course, as I

00:00:45   am.

00:00:46   I always have a cup of tea in the morning to prepare me and to energize me for upgrade.

00:00:52   upgrade.

00:00:53   And I'll take the American coffee in my Portland mug today.

00:00:57   That's fine. See? It's a little, you know, we're going across the Atlantic. It's only

00:01:02   fitting.

00:01:03   Talking about Atlantic and the UK, I bought muffins. English muffins.

00:01:09   Oh no! Okay, muffin vertical. Here we are, muffin vertical. It's very important.

00:01:14   When we were doing the online shopping, I said to Idina, "Can we put muffins in, please?"

00:01:20   they arrived this morning. I haven't eaten them yet. But I'm saying this to close Muffin

00:01:26   Gate now.

00:01:27   That's right. The circle has closed. Myke bought muffins.

00:01:34   Eventually I will eat the muffins, but you will not hear about my opinion.

00:01:38   Toast them, and yes. I'm out of muffins, so we're going to go to the store today, and

00:01:44   one of the things we will buy will be muffins. And that's good, because I miss them for my

00:01:49   breakfast. I'm going to toast them and put jam on them. Oh good, that's a nice one, that's

00:01:54   great. Yeah, it's all good. Jam on a muffin is wonderful. But apparently, as Twitter would

00:02:00   let me know, you say that biscuits, what you call biscuits, which are closer to scones

00:02:06   than the other biscuits, you say that they are superior to English muffins. Oh yeah,

00:02:13   buttermilk biscuits. So buttermilk biscuits, southern style buttermilk biscuits, are fantastic,

00:02:17   And there are many ways to eat them.

00:02:19   And I bake them myself here at home on many weekends.

00:02:23   And they're great, but they're fresh.

00:02:25   You know, fresh homemade anything out of the oven is going to be better.

00:02:28   And those southern biscuits are better.

00:02:31   The difference is that they're really only better right when they're hot and fresh out

00:02:35   of the oven.

00:02:36   And then, you know, when they cool off, they're not as good.

00:02:39   Whereas muffins are good because they're storable and they toast up very well and all that.

00:02:46   Biscuits are fantastic.

00:02:47   But uh, but, and if those of you, we'll put a, we'll put a link in the show notes to my

00:02:54   recipe for those.

00:02:56   I got it already, the little screenshot that you did.

00:02:58   Yeah, from out of Vesper.

00:03:00   Uh, yeah, if you're somebody outside of the United States who doesn't even know, they're

00:03:03   kind of like scones, but they're not, they're not, uh, because they're moist and, uh, sort

00:03:09   of flaky layers and scones are a little kind of harder and drier and stuff.

00:03:13   But thus ends muffin gate.

00:03:16   Jason, would you say that early January is a quiet time for technology news?

00:03:21   No!

00:03:22   Well, the muffin conversation would indicate that maybe it is.

00:03:27   Let's move on to some follow up in regards to the 3.5mm audio jack.

00:03:33   We had a bunch of interesting tweets sent in to us, we picked out a few.

00:03:38   The first one is from @LeFrenchFab and they said "Replacing the 3.5mm jack and lightning

00:03:43   ports of a smart connector would be a way to waterproof an iPhone. What do you think

00:03:48   about that?

00:03:49   Yeah, I mean, there are rumors that based on the teardown of the iPhone 6S and 6S Plus

00:03:54   that Apple is already kind of experimenting with more water resistance in the iPhone design.

00:04:01   And I don't know enough about the design of the headphone jack to know whether it's

00:04:07   just always going to be a problem in terms of waterproofing a device, but it is a big,

00:04:12   know, hole in your phone that water can get into, so possibly. I'm not sure whether

00:04:18   the lightning port is better at that or not, because it is also, you know, it's also

00:04:22   a port and it's got a hole that water can get into.

00:04:25   So my super unknowledge about all of these things, having just looked at devices, like

00:04:31   potentially the lightning port is waterproof because the hole is, it ends, right? Because

00:04:36   the port just works via pins, so the pins will just connect and I guess you could seal

00:04:42   that all up quite nicely. Because there are phones that exist in the world, like Android

00:04:48   phones that are completely waterproof that don't always use little caps or whatever

00:04:53   over the sockets like the mini USB or whatever. So maybe it's possible, I don't know if

00:04:58   you have to have the smart connector to do that. There are claims that the current iPhone

00:05:03   is kind of waterproof, right? People were dropping them in bowls of water and stuff

00:05:07   like that.

00:05:08   The idea of the smart connector is if you have a smart connector, then there's nothing,

00:05:13   right? The smart connector is just a little magnetic—it's not even magnetic, but it's

00:05:17   just the three little dots. And then there's also a magnet—the dots aren't magnetic—on

00:05:20   the iPad Pro. And so theoretically, you are—there's nothing, right? And if you did a smart connector

00:05:28   and you did, if Lightning is waterproofable and if you did like, you could also do, there

00:05:35   are rumors about wireless charging, induction charging, then you know, there are ways to

00:05:42   make the phones more waterproof. So maybe? I don't know.

00:05:47   I don't know enough about what the smart connector can carry, but I would find it incredibly

00:05:52   surprising if the smart connector replaced both the 3.5mm jack and the lightning port

00:05:58   in the next device. I don't even think that the iPhone is going to get the smart connector

00:06:02   for some time if ever. It really feels like, currently, more of an iPad thing. It's to

00:06:09   connect big devices that require power physically to them. And I don't think that there is an

00:06:13   awful lot of stuff that you could really put an iPhone with. Maybe like a speaker, but

00:06:20   Bluetooth is kind of the way to go for that kind of stuff. And there's no magnets. There's

00:06:25   no magnets embedded in the iPhone. No, they could put one in though, right? Well, they

00:06:27   could, but then they're adding magnets and then what's the surface area of the magnet

00:06:31   if they're trying to make it a thinner iPhone? You know, you're reducing the amount of surface

00:06:35   area to magnetize something too. It's already kind of a curved side. It would be difficult.

00:06:42   Nico suggested, "Couldn't Apple combine Lightning and Bluetooth headphones into one set with

00:06:48   the new iPhone. They totally could, I just don't think that they're going to include

00:06:53   those. I mean you could maybe have a... Too expensive. Yeah, you could maybe have Bluetooth

00:06:57   and lightning right in one little package. That would be nice if they wanted to sell

00:07:01   some extra headphones. I expect that this is probably what they'll do with Beats. Sure.

00:07:09   You know, put a little lightning port in the headphones so you can charge them from the

00:07:13   phone which would be really nice actually to be able to do that. Like if, yeah because

00:07:18   one of my issues right now is I have battery anxiety with my Bluetooth headphones and if

00:07:25   there was a way to plug my headphones into my iPhone, take a bit of battery from my iPhone

00:07:31   and charge my headphones for another hour, that would be kind of sweet. I would like

00:07:35   that. You know like in the same way you charge the pencil. I would like that a lot, Jason.

00:07:41   Yeah, I think these are good ideas, interesting ideas. So, but I agree with you that it seems

00:07:48   unlikely that Apple would include a wireless headset in the box. There'll be a, you know,

00:07:54   cheaper pair of ear pods that'll be in the box with some sort of wired connection, you

00:07:59   know, presumably lightning if this happens.

00:08:01   If we get Bluetooth headphones in the box, the iPhone price just went up. Right? Like,

00:08:07   they've just put the price of the iPhone up. I'd be shocked. It's not happening.

00:08:11   Joe Steele wrote in, fake name, real person, "Did you guys mention lightning removing the

00:08:15   ability to charge and listen at the same time last week?" I might have missed it. I think

00:08:19   this is a good point. I don't know if we mentioned it except in passing, but this is one of the

00:08:22   use cases that's problematic if all you've got is a lightning port is people often will

00:08:27   be listening to their phone while it's charged and you would need to have wireless headphones

00:08:32   to do that in this scenario because if you've got lightning plugged in, you can't charge

00:08:38   at the same time, if that's your method of charging. And that happens to me all the time.

00:08:44   When I'm in the car, when I'm in my car, I've got it paired to Bluetooth, but when I'm in

00:08:49   the car that my wife drives, it's paired to her phone and it gets kind of messed up if

00:08:53   it's also paired to my phone. And I've just got an AUX IN plug, and so I'll plug it in,

00:08:59   and then I'll also plug in the power when we're taking a long drive or something like

00:09:02   that. And this would not be possible with this setup. I would have to change how we

00:09:07   do that. And it is true, it is an added complication, the idea that if you have to plug your audio

00:09:13   device in via lightning, but you also want to charge your phone, there's only one lightning

00:09:19   port.

00:09:20   Yeah, it's not ideal.

00:09:22   Yeah.

00:09:23   So we'll see what happens there. Previously in the past, we have spoken about podcasting

00:09:29   and audio production tools, and I just wanted to draw attention to a couple that I know

00:09:33   that you've been using recently, which are new and are quite cool, I guess, for people

00:09:38   that are wanting to make podcasts and stuff like that. Jason, would you like to talk about

00:09:43   Chapters and Loopback?

00:09:44   Sure, so Chapters is an app that I don't know, I don't think it's been approved by the Mac

00:09:49   App Store yet.

00:09:50   Yeah, we can assume it'll be around within a week or so, but they have a website together

00:09:54   now.

00:09:55   But I, yeah, they've got a website and it's been submitted for approval, and I've used

00:09:58   a beta of it and basically you point it at an mp3 file and you can put in time

00:10:04   time code markers and then save out and it saves out the mp3 file with mp3

00:10:11   chapters embedded in it and so if you're using a podcast app that supports

00:10:16   chapters mp3 chapters your podcast will then have chapters and we talked about

00:10:21   this Overcast supports this now but there are limited numbers of tools I

00:10:26   I believe the ATP chapter markers are being made by Marco using a tool he built for himself,

00:10:31   but this is a public. Thomas Pritchard wrote it, he sent me a bunch of betas of it as he was working

00:10:38   on it. It is a publicly available tool. You bring your own MP3, drop it in, it reads the metadata

00:10:45   that you've already got in there, which is kind of nice. So it's not like you've got to re-tag your

00:10:48   MP3 and then you go through and say, you know, at eight minutes, 15 seconds, you know, here's the

00:10:53   the title, here's the link, and you build up a list and then you save it out and it

00:10:57   saves the MP3 with the data in it and then you upload that file. So if you're somebody

00:11:01   who is a podcaster who wants to do chapters but has no way to do MP3 chapters, look for

00:11:07   chapters, which is going to be in the Mac App Store. And I think it's going to be like

00:11:10   20 bucks or something. It's not, you know, he's going to charge for it. But if you're

00:11:14   a podcaster who wants to embed chapters, it's probably worth it because I think there

00:11:18   are no other Mac tools that do that at this point.

00:11:20   Not that I've seen. Thomas has sent me betas for this but I've yet to actually check it

00:11:25   out. But it looks really good and it gets the Jason Snow stamp of approval so what more

00:11:30   do you need?

00:11:31   Yeah, I mean there are other, I will say I have used other tools.

00:11:36   Say it so have I.

00:11:37   As have you that are not publicly available and may or may not ever be. So I'm not just

00:11:44   using Chapters app but I have used Chapters app on a clockwise and on an incomparable

00:11:48   and as far as I can tell it works great. So it's nice to see a public tool for this because

00:11:56   you know tools that are private or in beta don't help everybody else. So it may be great

00:12:00   that I've got a chance to try some of those tools but it doesn't help anyone else. In

00:12:05   Chapters App I can say it's you know, assuming Apple approves it it'll be in the Mac App

00:12:09   Store and if not then I'm sure he'll put it up on his own. So one way or another you'll

00:12:12   be able to get it soon. So chaptersapp.com.

00:12:15   All right, and then also Loopback. What is Loopback?

00:12:20   Loopback is a new utility from our friends at Rogue Amoeba, makers of AudioHijack. I

00:12:26   talked to them a long time ago when they were beta testing AudioHijack. I asked them about

00:12:31   a few things. I said, "Can AudioHijack do this?" And it turns out this was definitely

00:12:35   not a feature that they had planned for AudioHijack, but they said that they had something else

00:12:40   in the works that would probably do it. Loopback is that tool. Basically, one of the things

00:12:44   I've talked about this before, it's surprising to me how rudimentary some of the Mac sound

00:12:50   subsystems are. It actually makes it not surprising that sound is so poorly handled on iOS in

00:12:56   terms of being able to record an input and record across multiple apps at once and all

00:13:01   of that, because even on the Mac it's kind of rudimentary. You can't natively in the

00:13:06   Mac say, "Record the audio from this app," or "Route the audio from this app to this

00:13:10   other app. It's just you can't. You need to add extra software to do that. Audio Hijack

00:13:16   is a good example of that. It'll do some routing and it'll also do recording. Loopback

00:13:21   is all about kind of routing audio from one device to another. What it does is, if you

00:13:25   plug any kind of recording device into your Mac or any output device to your Mac like

00:13:29   speakers, and you go to the sound preferences pane, you'll see in the output tab you'll

00:13:34   see all the output devices listed and in the input tab you'll see all the input devices

00:13:38   What Loopback does is it lets you create "new devices" in quotes that are not real, but

00:13:45   what they are is sounds coming from different places mixed by Loopback and then sent back

00:13:52   out.

00:13:53   So you can create, for example, a good example is Skype.

00:13:55   When I was building the Macworld podcast studio, we had a mixer with four microphones on it,

00:14:01   but Skype only ever takes track one from any audio device that you set as the microphone.

00:14:06   Yeah, we really, really unfortunately found that out whilst trying to record Connected

00:14:11   at WWDC last year.

00:14:12   Exactly, and Loopback would have solved your problem in one step.

00:14:18   So what Loopback you could do is you could create a new device, a new virtual device,

00:14:22   and put all four of the audio tracks, the audio from the four tracks on your mixer onto

00:14:28   track one of this virtual device.

00:14:31   literally just drag them over and drop them on one and then save it and check

00:14:37   the box and now that's a new input it's a new microphone you can use you select

00:14:43   it in Skype and now you're getting all four together and you can do lots of

00:14:47   other things like you can plug in two USB microphones and create one microphone

00:14:51   out of it that included the source for both so you could record them

00:14:54   simultaneously because one of the things that the Mac sound subsystem doesn't do

00:14:59   do is let you kind of aggregate devices in a clean way, and so you can do that with Loop

00:15:07   Back. Some of the stuff you can kind of do through Audio Hijack, but there's also some

00:15:12   stuff like Audio Hijack won't let you create a new virtual input. It'll let you route audio

00:15:15   to existing places, but Loop Back will let you create new channels for audio, including

00:15:23   things like saying "play GarageBand to Skype," which is not something that you could otherwise

00:15:28   do, and Skype picks up the input of what's coming out of GarageBand and suddenly the sound

00:15:34   is flowing across. So it's a pro tool, I think they're an introductory sale for $75,

00:15:41   but in the end it's going to be $100. But again, if you were somebody who keeps having

00:15:46   kind of crazy--and at Mackerel what we ended up doing is running a line out, basically

00:15:51   a headphone jack out of the back of the mixer, and running it into the little audio in on

00:15:57   the back of the old iMac that we were using. It's still using, I think they still do it

00:16:01   this way. And using that as the microphone for Skype. So Skype people were receiving

00:16:07   this weird mixer audio that was coming out of one of the headphone jacks and running

00:16:14   through a 3.5mm jack cable to that little mini jack input on the back of the iMac. It's

00:16:22   ridiculous, but that was the only way we could get them to hear what we were saying. So this

00:16:27   would solve that problem because you could just aggregate everything together. So yeah,

00:16:31   loopback, it's cool, it's a cool idea. It's, you know, it's not for everybody, but you

00:16:36   know, you'll know it if you need it because you'll have that moment where you're like,

00:16:38   "How do I do this?" And the only answer will be to get loopback or try something like Soundflower,

00:16:43   which does similar things, but that's an open source project that has been not developed

00:16:48   very well over the years. It's sort of on and off as many open source projects are,

00:16:53   and I find its interface to be almost impenetrable.

00:16:55   So once you install Soundflower, it is incredibly difficult to uninstall Soundflower.

00:17:01   Yes.

00:17:02   Yeah.

00:17:03   So loopback is much more straightforward.

00:17:04   And if you uncheck all the boxes, if you're like, "I wonder if loopback is slowing down

00:17:08   my system or doing other things that I don't want to my sound," you just uncheck the boxes

00:17:12   and loopback of the virtual inputs and they go away and then they're gone.

00:17:15   So yeah.

00:17:17   So definitely people should check it out if they are in need of a utility like that.

00:17:21   Oh, oh, oh, there's one more bit of follow-up I wanted to do, which is I got something wrong

00:17:25   last week, I said that I thought that Lightning currently could do analog audio out, and that's

00:17:30   not true. I actually got that mixed up from the speculation on an episode of ATP that

00:17:35   they thought that they could do, they could build analog audio out into Lightning, which

00:17:41   they could do but they haven't done. So it's possible that one thing that Apple could do

00:17:46   would be to update Lightning so that one of the things that it could do was send out analog

00:17:51   audio thereby preventing you from needing a DAC in the external audio device, a digital

00:17:58   to analog converter. Although, as Marco pointed out to me privately, Marco Arment from Podcasting's

00:18:04   ATP, the DACs are cheap, so it probably wouldn't be a big deal for most devices to have their

00:18:10   own DAC, although the one on the iPhone is pretty good, and so getting the analog signal

00:18:14   out from the iPhone might be preferable to having whatever DAC would be in your external

00:18:19   audio device. But anyway, that's about speculation and not fact, and I stated it as fact. So

00:18:23   I apologize. ATP is part of my reality, apparently.

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00:20:28   You call it wake 'em and not whack 'em?

00:20:31   I don't know anymore.

00:20:32   I'm losing my voice a little bit.

00:20:34   I don't know if you'd notice that today, Jason.

00:20:36   No.

00:20:37   Yeah, it's just a little bit croaky.

00:20:38   So, it's nothing to worry about.

00:20:42   You sound like a professional. Yeah, just as an aside to the listeners out

00:20:46   there, if anybody has any good resources for vocal exercises, please send them to me. I

00:20:52   would love to know. As the more I do this, Jason, the more worried I get about losing

00:20:59   my voice completely, and what would I do if that happened?

00:21:05   It is true. This comes up at conferences sometimes. I do have those moments where I realize that

00:21:12   if I'm planning to do a podcast the next day or something like that, like I kind

00:21:15   of need to actually watch my voice, which is a little weird because what would be

00:21:21   the impact of having a croaky voice the next day? But if you have to do podcasts

00:21:25   or presentations of some sort, it matters. It really does. It's weird. It's like

00:21:30   suddenly we've turned into singers, you know, "I need my tea with lemon before I

00:21:35   I can go on. I don't know how that happened. Crumb crisp coating.

00:21:42   Jason, talking about good audio for podcasting and things like that, you have done something

00:21:48   that would in theory ruin your audio. Yeah.

00:21:52   Would you like to demonstrate what you have done?

00:21:55   Uh, okay, sure.

00:21:58   That, ladies and gentlemen, is a horribly quick keyboard, which I'm sure Jason would

00:22:05   not be able to use during this show quietly.

00:22:08   What have you bought?

00:22:09   I'm very intrigued about this.

00:22:12   I don't know why I did it, but I've been intrigued by going back to mechanical switch keyboards

00:22:18   for a while now.

00:22:19   I have not spent a lot of time exploring it.

00:22:21   I used a Matthias Tactile Pro for a little while.

00:22:25   I have, um, I mean, I used back in the day and I do actually have an Apple

00:22:29   extended keyboard, although the ADB USB adapters are not particularly reliable.

00:22:33   And it's a little frustrating.

00:22:35   Um, the classic kind of battleship, but the thing is I like, um, I, so I always

00:22:41   thought maybe I should go back to a mechanical keyboard.

00:22:44   I've talked about how I don't like key travel, like short key travel on this, on

00:22:48   the show, like the Mac book keyboard.

00:22:49   And I thought, well, um, maybe someday I will explore that.

00:22:53   And actually Joshua Topolski, formerly of The Verge and Bloomberg, now doing mysterious startup things,

00:22:58   posted a tweet with a picture of this keyboard. And it was this little keyboard, had no 10 key,

00:23:06   no number pad. It was a super tiny keyboard. It didn't even have a function key row.

00:23:10   And it had like kind of different colored keys on it. And I looked at it and I was like, "Ooh,

00:23:17   "Ooh!" I was surprised to find myself really kind of intrigued by that, and I asked him what it was,

00:23:24   and I spent, you know, three months basically, four months not buying it, but just sort of

00:23:30   thinking about it. And I looked at some other mechanical keyboards. Matthias makes a mini

00:23:36   keyboard in a couple of different versions, because I didn't--I do all my pointing with my

00:23:42   trackpad on my the right side of my keyboard and I don't need a number pad

00:23:47   I don't want a number pad and all the number head pad does is push the trackpad further away from me

00:23:52   So I wanted I want something that is apparently we learned called 10 keyless

00:23:59   Okay, that's a keyboard term and and I looked at Matthias's mini tactile Pro and mini quiet Pro

00:24:06   Which are both ten keyless keyboards there. They're bigger

00:24:09   they've got a bigger bezel and they've got a function key row at the top and

00:24:12   and it's funny because they make a quiet one that is only in a PC layout and then

00:24:21   the loud one they make only in a Mac layout. Quiet is a is an interesting

00:24:27   word to use because it's not quiet. It's not it well it's much quieter than their

00:24:31   normal keyboards. It should be the quieter rather than the quiet. It's true

00:24:37   It's true. So I thought about those and I might yet get one of those

00:24:40   I don't know

00:24:41   But what I did was I actually got the same basically the same one that Joshua Topolski had which was a Leopold

00:24:46   FC 660 M. This is a

00:24:49   Korean I

00:24:52   Think it's a Korean. Well, it's made in Taiwan. I

00:24:55   Don't know whether the company is Korean or Chinese. I got it from

00:24:59   somebody in in

00:25:02   Korea on eBay because that seems to be the best place to get them is you buy them on eBay from somebody in Korea

00:25:07   And then they come to you. It's weird

00:25:09   And I've been using it for the last week, and it's uh it's interesting

00:25:14   I I bought some custom key caps because it comes with a windows keyboard layout so actually I had to change the you know

00:25:21   There's a system setting that you can set per keyboard which is pretty cool in os 10

00:25:25   it didn't used to be that way to flip the

00:25:28   Command and option keys to be the other way around which you need to do for a Windows keyboard

00:25:32   I bought some custom key caps. So I replaced the

00:25:36   Alt keys with actual keys that say command on them

00:25:41   I still have a Windows key. That's my option key

00:25:44   I need to get a blank key at the very least and and

00:25:47   Replace that so that I don't have to stare at the Windows logo because why why would I want to do that?

00:25:52   I do all the time. I have

00:25:55   Microsoft sculpt ergonomic keyboards and I have to look at the Windows logo.

00:25:58   You could do, but if I can get away to not do that, then I will choose that.

00:26:02   So I bought some custom keycaps for it, and it's just been kind of fun.

00:26:07   What I've learned is that I really love it for when I'm in the zone writing, just typing away

00:26:17   a lot. It really is great. It is, you know, you feel every key click, you can hear it,

00:26:25   uh, you're, you're, you're writing up a storm, you get some almost like it feels almost like

00:26:30   momentum or like you're, you're, you're, it's like horses galloping. It's just click, click,

00:26:36   click. You just, you're going, that's great. When I'm doing something like editing up,

00:26:39   editing a podcast or just kind of clicking around and looking at Twitter and looking

00:26:43   at Skype and doing occasional key clicks that are like clunk, clunk, clunk. It seems kind

00:26:48   of ridiculous. Like it's overkill for that. It's too much. I don't need feedback for those

00:26:52   sorts of things. Perhaps one day some geniuses will create a keyboard that is entirely artificial

00:26:59   like the Magic Trackpad 2 and you can set your sound and tactile levels per operation,

00:27:11   perhaps in the wonderful future we'll get there. But as it is, that's my thought,

00:27:15   is that I kind of like it, I kind of love it for writing, but when I'm just kind of

00:27:21   mousing around and then doing keyboard shortcuts, it seems like really overkill. That said,

00:27:27   since I've been using it, I went back, so I kept my little Logitech Bluetooth keyboard

00:27:31   for podcasting, because I do need a quiet keyboard while I'm podcasting, which is dumb,

00:27:37   But that is part of this story.

00:27:40   And I started typing on it and I thought, "Ew."

00:27:44   Suddenly I feel much less charitable toward that keyboard and I see what the mechanical

00:27:48   keyboard people see in them and have against the kind of mushy keyboards.

00:27:53   Because while I've been really used to the MacBook style, not the new MacBook, but the

00:27:57   kind of MacBook Air, MacBook Pro style, which is also in a lot of these Bluetooth keyboards,

00:28:01   of a sudden, I can see that they feel kind of weird and mushy compared to the mechanical

00:28:08   ones.

00:28:10   I understand the idea of the sound and how it makes you feel. Like if I ever, I mean,

00:28:16   basically all of the writing of any kind that I do these days is occurring on my iPad Pro

00:28:20   as many things are. And that makes a noise.

00:28:24   Oh, that's true.

00:28:26   the smart keyboard, right? Like, it's a... I don't think it's a satisfying sound, but

00:28:33   it makes a noise. And when I'm typing on it, like, I kind of like that sound. Like the

00:28:37   "tik tik tik tik" noise that it makes.

00:28:39   Just a little bit of... Yeah, I mean, this is all about degrees here. I did actually

00:28:43   attach this to my iPad Pro using a USB adapter, because it's a USB keyboard, it's not a Bluetooth

00:28:48   keyboard. And that was hilarious and weird, to have this clicky keyboard attached to an

00:28:56   iPad Pro. That was kind of maybe a bridge too far. But it worked. Totally worked.

00:29:04   So there you go. For all you people that like super clicky keyboards, Jason has got you

00:29:08   covered. Yeah, you can check it out. I'll let you

00:29:10   know what I think about it in the long run. Like I said, I'm feeling good about it as

00:29:13   a writing tool. It is kind of ridiculous because it is loud and it's very old school. I also

00:29:21   just love I love how it looks I love how small it is it's just this tiny tiny

00:29:26   thing it's got almost no bezel it's got no function key row and I used I

00:29:32   downloaded actually keyboard maestro which I used back like when it was a

00:29:36   first I think before Peter Lewis bought it way back when and and that's actually

00:29:42   a really great utility that I've known was really great but I've never used

00:29:46   personally in since very very early versions and that's been great because

00:29:51   it can do some mapping of keys to different things that I need on this

00:29:57   keyboard because it's not quite the keyboard I'm used to like the the the

00:30:01   tilde and single tick key that's usually in the upper left hand corner isn't on

00:30:06   this keyboard it's an that's where the escape key goes so I needed to map that

00:30:11   key like command of that key to the command tilde that you do to cycle

00:30:17   through windows a little stuff like that along with some more complicated stuff

00:30:21   that I've been playing with, so it's been fun to use Keyboard Maestro a little bit too,

00:30:25   which I haven't had reason to try for a while.

00:30:29   There you go. Beautiful.

00:30:32   Just after last week's episode, Apple dropped something upon us.

00:30:37   Almost during the episode.

00:30:38   Yeah, pretty much. And it's the iOS 9.3 preview. So at this point, there's probably not much

00:30:46   use in us going through what the 9.3 preview includes.

00:30:51   Well there's a, and I think this is the most interesting part of the story,

00:30:54   there's a page on Apple's website that details what is in iOS 9.3.

00:30:59   Yeah, which makes it different from being just a beta, right? It is a preview in that

00:31:03   Apple is

00:31:04   previewing it to the world, which is a new thing.

00:31:07   Is this the first time they've ever done this, like for a point release? I feel like

00:31:12   maybe yes?

00:31:14   I think outside of WWDC announcements, it's the first time that Apple has done a marketing

00:31:20   push for the initial developer release of an OS update.

00:31:26   And I think it's really smart.

00:31:30   They talked about this a bit on ETP last week, so it's worth people listening to that too.

00:31:33   I agreed with their thoughts about it there.

00:31:36   I think it's smart of Apple, because what happens is inevitable.

00:31:42   They release it just to developers, it's a beta, it's under NDA, and then within a couple

00:31:46   of hours all the rumor sites, all the other news sites that cover developer betas have

00:31:51   detailed everything that's in the betas and speculated about things that are, you know,

00:31:55   the next day it's speculated about things that are suggested in the betas, and it goes

00:31:58   on and on.

00:31:59   So if you're Apple, why wouldn't you own that?

00:32:02   If you know that people are going to cover it, why wouldn't you own that?

00:32:04   You're allowing the people who are reporting on developer betas to control the story of

00:32:11   your, not your major update that comes at WWDC, but your minor updates that come other

00:32:16   times that might have a few features in them. And if you're proud of those features, why

00:32:20   would you not make, it's not like they did a huge press blitz, but they did post a page

00:32:25   saying here's what's coming in iOS 9.3, here are these features and they'll be coming soon.

00:32:30   And it's very clear that the reason you do that is because they know people are going

00:32:33   to write about it as soon as it goes into beta, so they might as well get on top of

00:32:36   it and tell their own story. And that's smart marketing, that's smart PR. So that's what

00:32:41   they did. And I think it's really smart, but I feel like that is a new thing. That is,

00:32:45   to just jump out there like that, that's a new thing. And smart.

00:32:50   Do you think this signifies anything? So Dan and I talked about it on Clockwise, I think,

00:32:58   and the Six Color Secret Subscriber podcast too, but then Dan wrote a story about it on

00:33:05   Mac world and you know there was some interesting response to that because like

00:33:09   Mark Gurman was like oh this isn't new they have had notable dot releases

00:33:13   before but I think I think what's notable is that this is new features

00:33:16   that haven't been promised before that are being rolled into this version of

00:33:22   the OS instead of iOS version 10 and I think that that might be different than

00:33:27   we've seen before it might not be I saw a lot of people who are involved in

00:33:30   education saying the problem with iOS 10 is that the education cycle happens

00:33:35   earlier than that in terms of planning for education for the school year, and that if

00:33:39   they've got something that is announced in summer and ships in the fall, it's too late

00:33:43   for education. So taking the education feature of user logins, which is something that's

00:33:49   one of the banner features that's going to be in this 9.3 update, and pulling it forward

00:33:53   maybe is more about timing and doing some education updates earlier rather than waiting

00:33:59   all the way until fall, because they've got quite a battle with Chromebooks in schools.

00:34:04   So I think that might be part of it. What my speculation was, and I think Dan's speculation

00:34:09   is, I wonder if this is also a hint that Apple's going to be a little less monolithic with

00:34:14   the iOS updates and roll some features out throughout the year, including new features,

00:34:20   not just features that are promised but not yet delivered or attached to new hardware.

00:34:25   Because none of these things are attached to new hardware nor were they promised. Not

00:34:29   the new version of basically Flux that will get rid of the blue light on your device screen

00:34:37   at night, not the user login. These are things that are not things that we had heard about

00:34:43   before and now here they are. Or they're in the betas and they're coming.

00:34:48   Yeah, so there's slight precedent, right? In the last year, 18 months, there have been

00:34:56   updates to the devices that are relatively large things that have come with point releases,

00:35:02   right? So Apple Pay internationally, Apple Music and stuff like that.

00:35:08   That's why they weren't the minor releases, that's why they got the whole point.

00:35:11   Yeah, exactly. So there's been more of that happening, but what makes this one different

00:35:16   is that we didn't know about any of this stuff until the beta came, which that's the new

00:35:22   part of this right is that it is unannounced so what do you think this

00:35:28   says for WWDC do you have any kind of feeling about whether we're gonna get

00:35:33   9.5 or are we gonna get 10 if you're reading the tea leaves what would you

00:35:38   say is gonna happen here my gut feeling is that is that we'll get 10 because

00:35:42   that's how Apple has done it every single time before so why not but you

00:35:46   know this made me at least stop and think what would it be like if what they

00:35:50   did was announce iOS 9.5 and said actually what we're gonna do is we're

00:35:54   gonna we're gonna do 9.5 now and we're gonna release it you know soon and then

00:35:59   in the fall you'll see 9.6 and then in the spring you'll see 9.7 and that we're

00:36:05   gonna we're gonna do some some individual releases over time we've got

00:36:09   everything worked out now we've got we can push updates to everybody

00:36:13   automatically we can push updates to developers automatically we can push

00:36:16   them to the beta testers automatically and then we can push them to the users

00:36:19   automatically. We don't need to be in this monolithic cycle where we're changing everything

00:36:23   once a year. We can break it down a little further. They could totally do that, and I

00:36:26   think that's interesting. Will they do that? I don't know. I mean, it seems more likely

00:36:32   that they won't because that would require them to change their ways, but I'm kind

00:36:36   of interested by it just because I wonder sometimes if that would be a better way to

00:36:42   roll out features and make the process for developers and users a little smoother, just

00:36:47   sort of spread out the OS development over the course of many months. They could also

00:36:53   do iOS 10 and still have sort of more impressive updates in the interim before the next year

00:37:02   at WWDC. They could still use WWDC as the stake in the ground where they make some bigger

00:37:07   changes, but also not have it be that if a feature doesn't get in, it has to wait a year,

00:37:13   which is sort of what it's been like for most features up to now. I don't know, what do

00:37:17   you think?

00:37:18   I think that we may see WWDC as the starting point of this occurring from iOS 10 onward,

00:37:28   and that they are putting 9.3 out now as an example, like trying to set the stage. So

00:37:36   basically from 10 we may see a change. I actually do think that at 10, and I'm just going to

00:37:43   throw this out there, I think that there will be a change in the naming convention for iOS.

00:37:49   At a certain point the numbers get too high, and 10 feels like a better time to change

00:37:54   that than 20, because why would you change it at any other point?

00:37:58   So if you're going to change it, you may as well go for it now.

00:38:01   I wonder if they're, you know, they probably will give it the numeral 10 if they're going

00:38:05   to give it anything, but I think we may see some kind of change.

00:38:08   Because like for example, Google from a branding perspective, they're able to put out smaller

00:38:14   updates to the OS but give it a brand new name because they just go over letter every

00:38:18   time and they give it a candy name.

00:38:21   But Marshmallow was a smaller update than KitKat and whatever L was, I can't remember.

00:38:30   It was actually a smaller update.

00:38:31   Lollipop.

00:38:32   Lollipop, that's it.

00:38:33   But it still had the branding of a full number.

00:38:36   So I think we may see Apple go that route, you know, as they have shown us that they

00:38:41   can do and do with OS X.

00:38:44   I personally think we're going to see something there.

00:38:46   But I also believe that we're going to see a change in the way that OS updates are pushed

00:38:53   out.

00:38:54   And I think that they will be more staggered, more staged, which I assume internally for

00:38:58   Apple will mean that things can maybe stay in the oven a little bit longer, which would

00:39:02   benefit everybody.

00:39:04   so I do really hope that this is the case and because there will be a marketing risk

00:39:08   for not doing big number releases at WWDC every year, I hope that they're able to

00:39:13   do some marketing magic to make it look better than it is and personally I think that giving

00:39:20   them names rather than numbers will help that.

00:39:22   So, I think those are good points. I do think it's possible. I think this is one of those

00:39:30   those things that I mean who can tell for sure being on the outside but it would seem

00:39:33   to me that going to a cycle like this might might be better in terms of the features that

00:39:39   are ready get in and the features that aren't ready can go next time and and just my gut

00:39:45   feeling is and again it's just a gut feel so it could be wrong but is that changing

00:39:49   everything once a year in one monolithic update and then doing bug fixes for year seems like

00:39:55   that would be more dramatic and fraught than changing, you know, having a bigger change

00:40:02   once a year and then a bunch of smaller changes at a few, you know, or not a bunch, but like

00:40:06   three more smaller changes, let's say quarterly updates or three updates a year. It just seems

00:40:12   like that would be more sensible and comfortable for everybody. It means developers don't have

00:40:17   to invest all their time all summer long on adopting all the new features of the OS. Apple,

00:40:23   So the arguments against this are, there are a few of them. You mentioned one, which is

00:40:26   marketing. There's also the argument about WWDC's value being you roll out all the

00:40:31   new platforms there and then the developers get them. Taking the second one first, I think

00:40:35   what we saw with the Apple Watch development, which although it didn't, you know, it

00:40:39   didn't go well because there were issues with the platform not being very strong, they

00:40:42   were able to roll out the Apple Watch SDK and all of that and developers got that and

00:40:47   they didn't need to be at WWDC. And most developers aren't at WWDC, right? So yeah,

00:40:52   Yeah, but I don't think that the marketing thing is an issue to how you market to developers.

00:40:56   It's how you market to the general public.

00:40:58   Let me take these separately.

00:41:00   So the developer issue I think is not an issue.

00:41:02   I think the fear that, well, if you don't introduce all your new features at WWDC, the

00:41:06   developers, you aren't communicating well with the developers, it's already been shown.

00:41:10   Apple has lots of other means to communicate with developers.

00:41:13   They've done a good job with it.

00:41:14   I don't think that's the problem.

00:41:16   Marketing is the issue.

00:41:18   And I would dispute what you said.

00:41:20   I am not sure that Apple needs marketing about an OS update and I'm really not sure that

00:41:29   they need marketing about an OS update three months before it happens.

00:41:33   So the marketing issue I don't think is what anybody needs or what people think they need.

00:41:40   The problem now is if Apple do not do a full number release at WWDC there will be stories

00:41:48   written in the general press about how Apple is slowing down, Apple's failing. That's

00:41:53   the problem that they're in, right? Because then these things, they leak into the minds

00:41:57   of the general public. I think that's where—that's the only reason I think that this problem exists,

00:42:03   and it's not necessarily an accurate one, but that's not the point. That's not the

00:42:08   thing to worry about, right? It's how things are perceived, which is the issue.

00:42:12   I so I see what you're saying if I'm if I'm Apple I

00:42:17   Would if I'm at Apple I would advocate for the fact that

00:42:22   And this is a family podcast so I won't use the phrase that I would probably use in the meeting

00:42:27   Which is I don't think those kind of criticisms matter. I think that's chattering. I think that's inside baseball stuff

00:42:34   I think that the most important part in terms of marketing their products is when the new products the new hardware comes out and

00:42:41   And I think it would be much better to have these key features highlighted when you roll

00:42:48   out the new iPhone every year, which people really pay attention to, than this event that's

00:42:53   super technical and it's geared toward developers, but there's this little PR angle that's

00:42:59   in it too, where you're talking about a new version of software that's got some

00:43:02   very particular features and isn't going to ship for three months.

00:43:05   It is something that's a big deal for our audience and that maybe, yeah, the financial

00:43:11   analysts who are always writing about how Apple is doomed, you know, they may behave

00:43:17   even worse if it's taken away from them. But I think for the general public, it's

00:43:21   the worst event Apple does every year because it's not tangible, usually. There usually

00:43:28   isn't a product that comes out of it. And OS updates are kind of, you know, they're

00:43:33   very much this intangible thing. It's like, "Oh, there's going to be a feature.

00:43:36   Well, do I get it now? No, you don't get it until September or October. Oh, well, why

00:43:40   do I care?" So I could totally see Apple saying, "We're going to take a step back and not

00:43:47   make as big a deal about OS betas at WWDC and instead build our, you know, extol the

00:43:55   virtues of our hardware and the software features that come with them when we launch the hardware."

00:44:00   I think that argument can be made.

00:44:03   I understand your argument and I think that it's true.

00:44:07   That would be the downside of abandoning the huge monolithic software release.

00:44:13   But as you said, you could also market the small release and say, "This is the year

00:44:19   of El Capitan.

00:44:22   This is the year of the mountain lion," or whatever back in the day, and you'll see

00:44:28   some stuff across the year instead of it all being dropped in a load over the summertime

00:44:33   and shipped in September.

00:44:35   I completely agree with you and I take the view that it is possible to manage this and

00:44:40   put a good spin on it, but the way that I look at it, that is a risk though still, right,

00:44:45   because you can assume everything but you never know how people are going to react.

00:44:49   I personally believe that it is that risk that we're not sure factor, which is what

00:44:56   could be potentially holding them up internally from making a change like this. But I think

00:45:02   that it is more than possible for Apple to deal with this and put it in those terms.

00:45:08   But I think that it's something worth watching, and I do think it's going to happen post-10,

00:45:15   but it will be interesting to see what they do at number 10.

00:45:19   It's actually logical, in fact. You could make the argument that 10 is a great place,

00:45:24   you alluded to this earlier, 10 is a great place to say we've reached a milestone, here's

00:45:30   how we're going to handle this going forward. Even if the analysts look back and go, "Oh,

00:45:35   you know, 93 was kind of a hint in this direction," that maybe that would be something that they

00:45:40   would do. I don't know. I mean, we're just guessing here, but I think you're right in

00:45:43   saying, if you're going to change the way that you handle operating system stuff, then

00:45:49   doing it on a number, on a big number like 10 is not a bad way to do it. I also, again,

00:45:55   I wouldn't put, I think there's a percentage chance that they just punt about dealing with

00:46:00   the number 10 for a year and say, "We're going to do 9.5 and it's going to be awesome

00:46:05   and it's going to have all these features and, you know, and then we'll do, you know,

00:46:10   we'll do some other updates over the course of the year and not, and just not call it

00:46:14   10. I think that that still could happen, although, you know, I think it's less likely.

00:46:20   I think the most likely thing is to expect what we've seen, which is new number.

00:46:24   >> Well, one of the things that seems strange to me about this is why did they put a new

00:46:29   user feature, an unrequested user feature like night shift in 9.3 and not hold it over

00:46:34   for 10? >> Good question.

00:46:36   >> I can't work -- I can't wrap my head around that one. Like, the education stuff, throw

00:46:42   it in 9.3, bug fixes and changes and some of the other stuff that they've done in 9.3,

00:46:48   that's fine because that fits with a point release, right?

00:46:52   Oh, here's a bunch of stuff.

00:46:54   It's things that we're putting in, little bits and bobs and here you go, take that.

00:46:59   And oh, if you're in education, this is what you get for 9.3, this is really great.

00:47:04   But night shift is something that's cool.

00:47:06   I like it a lot.

00:47:09   been a bit of hubbub about Flux but that was nowhere even near like a mass market amongst

00:47:15   tech nerds right like yeah this is not something that everybody uses and or wanted. Additions

00:47:23   to Notes, News and Health would have and CarPlay would have been enough for 9.3 from a user

00:47:29   focus I'm really perplexed about what putting something like Night Shift into iOS 9.3 means

00:47:37   for WWDC. So I've got a theory. My theory about why

00:47:41   they did it is that there was this very minor in our community hubbub about Flux and somebody,

00:47:49   my theory is that, and this is based on no information, is that somebody at Apple said,

00:47:53   "Well, why don't we do that?" And maybe even some engineer said, "Well, actually,

00:47:58   we did do that. It's not implemented all the way yet, but we're working on that and

00:48:03   that's on the roadmap. And maybe they're saying, "Well, let's put it in 9.3. If it's close

00:48:10   and you think it's fairly simply done, maybe we should just put it into 9.3 rather than

00:48:14   holding it for the fall again." Or maybe there's an attitude like, "Well, we want these feature

00:48:21   updates to be a little more substantive than they've been in the past, and that's a pretty

00:48:23   good feature to pull forward. It's fairly simple. We could implement that fairly quickly.

00:48:28   Maybe we're already working on it. Let's pull that forward." My guess is that it may

00:48:32   have been pulled forward because it became part of the conversation a little bit and

00:48:37   Apple thought that there was some maybe even good PR to be done by saying look how great

00:48:41   we are in you know making our mobile devices gentler on your eyes and that's a little

00:48:48   a nice little feature. So I've got some those are my kind of theories about it is

00:48:53   that is that you know it's some combination of those things. It's a fairly small feature

00:48:58   it was probably already being discussed and it would be something that could be slipped

00:49:01   into a small version like this rather than, you know, waiting to roll it out to everybody

00:49:06   in September.

00:49:07   Yeah, I mean, I can totally see that. The thing that I just find so strange about it

00:49:13   is iOS 9 was not a big release, really. There actually wasn't a ton in it. There was lots

00:49:20   for the iPad, but that was kind of it. And I wonder what the next version will bring,

00:49:28   is, I'm interested to see, are we going to get a lot again, or is it going to be not

00:49:35   so much? And if it's not so much, then why did they put a user feature in now? You know?

00:49:41   Night shift also is funny because it is really simple. Like, it's a switch.

00:49:45   Yeah, but it's a nice little thing, right? And it's just a thing you can see, it's a

00:49:49   thing you can demonstrate. But what interests me about it is that it's super simple, and

00:49:54   I look at it and I immediately think like you could tie this to Do Not Disturb, you

00:49:59   could put it on Mission Control, or is that what it's called?

00:50:04   Control Center.

00:50:05   Control Center, the thing you flip up from the bottom, you can put a button there to

00:50:08   toggle it on and off.

00:50:09   None of that was done, right?

00:50:10   It's just, it's kind of off in the display settings and it's there and you can turn it

00:50:14   on if you want to.

00:50:15   So it's not like it couldn't, it could be a lot more integrated into the system than

00:50:19   it is.

00:50:20   So, for 9.3 it looks like, unless they add features, it seems most likely that for 9.3

00:50:26   it's going to be this super simple feature, like it's there if you want it.

00:50:29   And maybe it gets more integrated into the system down the road.

00:50:32   So that's kind of interesting too, that it does seem to be a very simple implementation

00:50:37   to get it in the system.

00:50:39   Driven now, people will say, "Well, why not just let Flux into the App Store or let Flux

00:50:43   distribute it?"

00:50:44   I think this goes to the core of the OS, is that there's stuff that Flux does as an app

00:50:50   is just that Apple just cannot allow a lot an app to do that there's no public

00:50:55   API for controlling this stuff and they don't like the way that flux I mean flux

00:51:01   is acting on the entire display whether it's running or not basically it's

00:51:05   pretty invasive and I'm pretty sure that the engineers at Apple said we cannot

00:51:10   allow that app and it does too much but this is the sort of thing that needs to

00:51:14   be tackled by the system this is a system feature you know not only should

00:51:18   it be a system feature but it needs to be a system feature rather than being

00:51:22   done by a third-party app and I I strongly agree with that that this this

00:51:27   is something flux exists because the OS is haven't cared about this not because

00:51:32   it should be a third-party app that does it so I don't know it's interesting

00:51:38   we're reading the tea leaves again but it does seem like apples you know apples

00:51:41   trying some different stuff and that web page is the best example of it because

00:51:45   that is them getting out in front of the story and saying this is an update

00:51:47   that's coming you know basically stealing the thunder of the sites that

00:51:53   got to make some hay reporting on the details of the first developer beta.

00:51:59   I mean the reason we read the tea leaves on this stuff is because Apple do things

00:52:04   a very specific way pretty much all of the time so when they do something

00:52:10   different it is like a pause for thought right you're like huh what are you doing

00:52:15   here. This is a new one. Set up and pay attention. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and they've been doing

00:52:18   that a lot lately. This is, this is, Apple was very understandable for a long time. They

00:52:24   went in cycles, they had the rules, you could see what the rule book is, and there is definitely

00:52:29   a culture at Apple today that is questioning some of the rules, and why do we have to do

00:52:34   it the way that it's always been. And some of that is Tim Cook instead of Steve. Some

00:52:38   of that is Katie Cotton, the head of communications, leaving. There are new people in positions

00:52:45   of authority and I think they're questioning some of the old assumptions.

00:52:48   This one, I have to say, no matter what it means for Apple's long-term software development,

00:52:51   I think this was such a good idea to get out in front of it.

00:52:55   If you're Apple, why are you letting 9to5Mac and MacRumors write stories introducing new

00:53:03   features that are coming to your operating system?

00:53:05   Why?

00:53:06   Why are you doing that?

00:53:07   We don't live in a world where developer betas are a secret.

00:53:10   They're not.

00:53:11   You know they're not a secret.

00:53:12   So why pretend that they don't exist until…

00:53:15   I know it would be better if you could just deliver the features on the day of and communicate

00:53:20   them, but you can't.

00:53:21   So get out in front of it.

00:53:22   Take control of your own story.

00:53:24   And I think it's great that they did.

00:53:25   It's super smart.

00:53:26   Should have done it a long time ago, but you know what?

00:53:30   They did it.

00:53:31   And I think it's a really smart move for them.

00:53:35   Is there anything else in 9-3 you wanted to talk about?

00:53:39   I wanted to ask you…

00:53:42   I've gotten reports that people who use the Apple Pencil are very unhappy with the first

00:53:46   developer beta of 9.3. Have you tried it with your Apple Pencil?

00:53:49   Sure have. And I wrote a little thing on my Tumblr blog just voicing my frustrations.

00:53:57   And I want to make this very clear because I just do. I fully understand that this is

00:54:04   a beta. I fully understand that there could be bugs. I get all of that.

00:54:08   This could be a bug.

00:54:09   This could be a bug, this could be a change in direction, whatever it is is different.

00:54:14   So now the Apple Pencil on 9.3 no longer is able to scroll UI lists and interact with

00:54:24   the UI as a replacement for a finger.

00:54:27   It only works to draw and write.

00:54:30   Now this is a big change in the way that this is working.

00:54:34   Of course it is potential for a bug, but because this is so disruptive to me, I wanted to talk

00:54:41   about it and bring it up just to kind of voice my concern.

00:54:46   That if this is a change in the way that the Apple Pencil interacts with the iPad, I think

00:54:52   Apple is making a big mistake.

00:54:55   Because currently in 9.3, there is nothing to suggest any change to the Apple Pencil to

00:55:01   make it, to give it any extra benefit. There is nothing that removing this function is

00:55:08   allowing me to do. That may be Apple's plan, but as I say, all I can do is say what I'm

00:55:14   seeing and what I'm seeing is now it has been decided that they don't want people to be

00:55:20   scrolling UI and using their iPads as pen input devices. So that is a concern to me

00:55:29   if that is the way it's going to be going forward because I don't know why they would

00:55:36   stop that other than a "You mustn't use our device in this way." And that is a concern

00:55:43   for me. It seems like a bad user experience in the sense that you have to mode shift.

00:55:47   You have to take the pencil out of your hands and do things and then put the pencil back

00:55:50   in your hands. Yeah. Where oftentimes you're just switching. You're going "I'm going

00:55:53   to tap this and scroll this and then I'm going to draw." I have two theories. One

00:55:57   is that this is a bug. Okay, three theories. One is it's just a bug. One is what they're

00:56:02   trying to do is give developers the opportunity to decide whether they want to ignore pencil

00:56:09   input for things that are not drawing and that this is the kind of emergence of that

00:56:13   and then it'll get fixed. And the third theory would be that it's going to be a setting that

00:56:18   allows the system to determine whether you want to lock out UI interactions for pencil

00:56:24   and only use it for drawing.

00:56:25   Because I can see where some people might say,

00:56:28   God, the pencil drives me crazy.

00:56:30   I'm just trying to draw with it.

00:56:32   Why does it keep trying to do these UI things?

00:56:34   So I don't know whether that's true or not,

00:56:36   but I could see how that might be.

00:56:37   So those are my theories is that this is, you know,

00:56:40   that this is not Apple saying,

00:56:41   no, you'll never use your pencil as this,

00:56:43   but that more likely it's either a bug

00:56:44   or they're trying to do something that gives

00:56:47   either the system or the developers a little more control

00:56:49   of whether that non-drawing input can be ignored or not.

00:56:53   That's my theory. - Yeah, I would hope

00:56:54   that either of those is true, as opposed to just no.

00:56:58   Because that's my thing, right?

00:56:59   Like if there's a benefit, if there is some reason

00:57:02   that this is being stopped, then that would be great,

00:57:05   but that definitely isn't the case right now.

00:57:09   I would even call for Apple to put a toggle

00:57:12   for this in accessibility.

00:57:13   Because I think that there is a good use case

00:57:17   for accessibility here as well.

00:57:19   - Yeah, I agree. - It definitely is for me

00:57:21   because for RSI and things like that,

00:57:23   is way more comfortable for me to use the pen input.

00:57:27   That is my gut feeling, is this is a side effect of them trying to do something different,

00:57:34   and that in future betas we'll see it. But you're right, if this was in the final product,

00:57:39   you would be right to scream bloody murder about it, but it's a beta, so on one level

00:57:43   we want to disclaim it, on another level we want to kind of draw attention to it in case

00:57:48   is happening in Apple. People at Apple don't know. You filed a radar, right?

00:57:54   I didn't file a radar, but somebody else filed a radar. I sent feedback through the feedback

00:58:00   app that comes on the device, which I believe goes into radar.

00:58:04   Yeah, I think so.

00:58:06   But, you know, I got a lot of that people telling me, "You should file a radar," for

00:58:11   people that hadn't actually read what I'd written in the post, which I specifically

00:58:15   said I put the radar number that somebody else had filed and sent to me.

00:58:20   Very nice.

00:58:21   And then I filed my own feedback.

00:58:23   So yeah, look, I understand how this stuff works, right, but I wanted to bring it up

00:58:27   because I also understand how that stuff works as well.

00:58:31   Yeah.

00:58:32   Sometimes you have to kind of make a little bit of noise for people to understand what

00:58:36   the issues are.

00:58:37   It's very interesting.

00:58:38   So I'm going to wait and see on that one.

00:58:40   It's a shame.

00:58:42   Some people said to me to roll back, right?

00:58:44   Oh, you should roll back to 9.2 if this is a big problem for you.

00:58:47   But I don't want to do that because if it's going to go away, I need to start getting

00:58:50   used to it at some point.

00:58:52   So maybe that time will be now.

00:58:53   And plus rolling back is a nightmare.

00:58:57   All right, let's move on to Ask Upgrade.

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01:01:11   All right, so ask upgrade, Jason, it is time.

01:01:17   John would like to know which Apple TV model did you purchase

01:01:22   and how much space do you have left?

01:01:25   So I went with a 32 gigabytes.

01:01:27   I have no idea how much space I have left.

01:01:29   I know it would be a lot because I don't install a lot of stuff on it.

01:01:33   I have the same answer as you. I bought the cheapest Apple TV for, and I don't know how much space I have left, and I kind of don't care, because that's not how I use it.

01:01:45   I don't want to manage the space on it, and it hasn't been a problem up to now. But I don't have a lot of stuff on it. I have, you know, ten apps or something like that.

01:01:53   Yeah, so it's not an issue.

01:01:55   Sorry, Jon. We just kind of are not paying attention to it and trying not to care.

01:01:59   I don't put anything on it, right? So I can't imagine it's ever going to be an issue.

01:02:03   Well, he says, there could be things, but the way that

01:02:07   tvOS is built right now, like, I'm not going to be downloading catalogs of

01:02:11   video and games, right? It's all built to not really do that.

01:02:15   Well, video doesn't even get stored. It would be the app data.

01:02:19   And, yeah, I haven't noticed anything there.

01:02:23   Nope, not me. I don't spend a lot of time playing Apple TV games. I mean, mostly I'm using the Apple TV

01:02:27   TV for purchased stuff iTunes purchase stuff and Plex that's mostly what I'm

01:02:36   using it for right now I didn't know you a Plex user Mac you know I've got so

01:02:41   yeah I mean it's Casey's fault but I can I actually have it on a on a server that

01:02:48   is also running iTunes and those files are you know I can add them to iTunes

01:02:53   and they show up there but the nice thing is if they're not in the night

01:02:56   compatible format they still show up in

01:02:57   Plex and it sort of saves a step if you

01:03:00   have a file that you just drop on there

01:03:03   you don't have to get in the right

01:03:04   format and add it to iTunes Plex just

01:03:06   sees it and updates its library so it's

01:03:09   I'm sort of shifting to that just

01:03:12   because I was doing a lot of effort to

01:03:13   get things in iTunes format for watching

01:03:16   on my TV on an Apple TV and now I don't

01:03:19   have to because Apple TV runs the Plex

01:03:21   app and that works. Okay next up we have Brian. Have you tried

01:03:28   Cloud Magic email for Mac yet? If so, what do you think of it? I put this in because

01:03:33   I've had a lot of people ask me. Cloud Magic is an iOS app that has recently made its debut

01:03:38   on Mac. I haven't tried it. I actually have never tried Cloud Magic. And it sounds so

01:03:46   I hate that brand name. I just don't like it. And their whole branding doesn't really

01:03:53   excite me very much. So I've not tried Cloud Magic. And I know that it's like, don't judge

01:04:00   a book by its cover type scenario, but the reason brands exist is because people do judge

01:04:04   books by their cover. But more than anything, really, the reason that I haven't tried it

01:04:10   out now is I'm really happy with Outlook on iOS and these days I am doing about 95% of

01:04:19   my email on iOS.

01:04:20   So I haven't felt the desire to make any change.

01:04:23   I wasn't really that interested in Cloud Magic for iOS so I'm not going to switch over for

01:04:28   Mac.

01:04:29   I'm using Airmail on my Mac and that's doing a pretty good job of what I need it to do

01:04:34   whenever I am at my Mac doing email, but the majority of the time I am using Outlook on

01:04:40   iOS, on my iPhone and my iPad as my predominant email app.

01:04:48   Same for me, I haven't tried it. The Mac version looks very much like a Gmail interface. Maybe

01:04:52   I should try it only because I'm using Mailplane, which is a Mac wrapper around Gmail, and that's

01:04:58   what I use on the Mac and then on iOS. I am also using Outlook right now, but you know,

01:05:03   something that I every so often I will get in a phase where I will have a bunch

01:05:06   of email clients and I will try them all out and and then use one for a while I'm

01:05:12   in the cruise phase with outlook right now where that's what I'm using but at

01:05:17   some point I will look around again and I'll check it out but right now I haven't

01:05:23   it's not time. Nicholas would like to know what our favorite condiments are I

01:05:30   I like ketchup a lot and if it would count maybe maple syrup depending on

01:05:37   what I'm eating it's very rare except for bacon that I would use those

01:05:42   condiments on the same thing I don't use them at the same time but bacon I have

01:05:46   with ketchup and with maple syrup depending on what is surrounding the

01:05:50   bacon I don't feel like maple maple syrup is a is a condom yeah that's why I

01:05:54   wasn't sure about that one but baby you could you could argue it and we could

01:05:58   start condiment or not. I don't want to do that. A limited series podcast. And I would

01:06:05   actually agree with you. Ketchup is my favorite condiment, without a doubt. Ketchup makes

01:06:11   almost everything better. It goes with so many things. I know you get a little tomato

01:06:16   savory, you get some vinegar action going in there, a little sweet on top of it. It's

01:06:21   great. Perfect. There are many great condiments, don't get me wrong. Yeah, all the great condiments.

01:06:25   Ketchup is the king of condiments.

01:06:28   And Richard would like to know, this is a meta question, and I quite like this, how

01:06:31   many questions on average do you get for Ask Upgrade on a weekly basis?

01:06:37   I would say that we get probably about 30 questions a week, maybe, I feel like that's

01:06:41   a good number, maybe between like 20 and 30.

01:06:45   But the participants vary quite a lot, it's not always the same people, which I do really

01:06:50   like.

01:06:51   always, you know, don't forget if you ever have questions and even follow up for the

01:06:55   show, you just tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade and we get them. And as Jason pointed out

01:07:00   in our document here, in the last two weeks we've been getting way more muffin-related

01:07:05   things on the #AskUpgrade hashtag than usual questions.

01:07:08   Yeah, I think we got fewer questions and comments than usual because everybody was really focused

01:07:15   on Muffin Gate. And also, Nicholas, I see what you're doing here. You're trying to create

01:07:19   a condiment vertical. And you may have succeeded, we'll have to see. But I see the game you're

01:07:24   playing, "Oh yeah, you gotta think two moves ahead with these upgrade listeners." They're

01:07:28   smart. They're smart.

01:07:30   Devious upgradians.

01:07:31   I know.

01:07:32   Yesterday evening, I can't remember how this came up, but I think Adina said something about,

01:07:41   "Oh, upgradians happen only once a year." And I was like, "No, no, darling. The upgradies

01:07:46   happen once a year. Upgradients are our listeners. And it just made me realize just how complicated

01:07:51   over time the naming conventions have become. But how dearly I love them.

01:07:57   Yes. Yeah, we are the secret society of Upgrade. We should have like a seal, a secret seal

01:08:04   for the secret society.

01:08:05   Oh, you do say, huh?

01:08:08   Mmm.

01:08:09   Mmm.

01:08:10   That's foreshadowing.

01:08:11   Indeed.

01:08:12   What if we did?

01:08:13   [GASP]

01:08:14   secret, you don't even know what it is. We do.

01:08:18   Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade. If you want to find links

01:08:21   for today's show, go to relay.fm/upgrade/72. I want to thank again Smile and Squarespace

01:08:29   for sponsoring this week's show. If you want to find us online, you can head on over to

01:08:32   sixcolors.com where you'll find Jason. Jason also hosts a couple of great podcasts on Relay

01:08:38   I.F.M. as well as this one and they are Lift Off and Clockwise and of course you can find

01:08:44   a cavalcade of shows over at TheIncomparable.com. If you want to find me online you can head

01:08:50   on over to Twitter I am @imike and I am the host of many shows and the fine Relay FM that

01:08:56   works at Relay.fm and you'll find a bunch of great shows there, all the great shows

01:09:00   as some would say. I want to thank you all for listening as always and we'll be back

01:09:06   next week with another episode of Upgrade. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:09:11   [typing]

01:09:12   Bye Myke!

01:09:13   Is that you typing goodbye?

01:09:14   [typing]

01:09:16   [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:09:19   [ Music ]

01:09:25   [ Silence ]