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Upgrade

72: I Spent Four Months Not Buying It

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0:00:00[Music]

0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Upgrade #72.

0:00:11Today's show is brought to you by PDF Pen 7 from Smile and Squarespace.

0:00:16My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

0:00:18Hi Myke, how's it going?

0:00:20Pretty well, pretty well.

0:00:21We were just discussing on the live stream before that we're both drinking

0:00:25caffeinated beverages today during the show, which is irregular, so expect a severe uptick

0:00:32in energy around topic number one.

0:00:35It's irregular for you, it's not irregular for me.

0:00:37Oh, yeah, because it's very early for you, isn't it?

0:00:40It's Monday morning, I always have a cup of tea with me, very British, of course, as I

0:00:45am.

0:00:46I always have a cup of tea in the morning to prepare me and to energize me for upgrade.

0:00:52upgrade.

0:00:53And I'll take the American coffee in my Portland mug today.

0:00:57That's fine. See? It's a little, you know, we're going across the Atlantic. It's only

0:01:02fitting.

0:01:03Talking about Atlantic and the UK, I bought muffins. English muffins.

0:01:09Oh no! Okay, muffin vertical. Here we are, muffin vertical. It's very important.

0:01:14When we were doing the online shopping, I said to Idina, "Can we put muffins in, please?"

0:01:20they arrived this morning. I haven't eaten them yet. But I'm saying this to close Muffin

0:01:26Gate now.

0:01:27That's right. The circle has closed. Myke bought muffins.

0:01:34Eventually I will eat the muffins, but you will not hear about my opinion.

0:01:38Toast them, and yes. I'm out of muffins, so we're going to go to the store today, and

0:01:44one of the things we will buy will be muffins. And that's good, because I miss them for my

0:01:49breakfast. I'm going to toast them and put jam on them. Oh good, that's a nice one, that's

0:01:54great. Yeah, it's all good. Jam on a muffin is wonderful. But apparently, as Twitter would

0:02:00let me know, you say that biscuits, what you call biscuits, which are closer to scones

0:02:06than the other biscuits, you say that they are superior to English muffins. Oh yeah,

0:02:13buttermilk biscuits. So buttermilk biscuits, southern style buttermilk biscuits, are fantastic,

0:02:17And there are many ways to eat them.

0:02:19And I bake them myself here at home on many weekends.

0:02:23And they're great, but they're fresh.

0:02:25You know, fresh homemade anything out of the oven is going to be better.

0:02:28And those southern biscuits are better.

0:02:31The difference is that they're really only better right when they're hot and fresh out

0:02:35of the oven.

0:02:36And then, you know, when they cool off, they're not as good.

0:02:39Whereas muffins are good because they're storable and they toast up very well and all that.

0:02:46Biscuits are fantastic.

0:02:47But uh, but, and if those of you, we'll put a, we'll put a link in the show notes to my

0:02:54recipe for those.

0:02:56I got it already, the little screenshot that you did.

0:02:58Yeah, from out of Vesper.

0:03:00Uh, yeah, if you're somebody outside of the United States who doesn't even know, they're

0:03:03kind of like scones, but they're not, they're not, uh, because they're moist and, uh, sort

0:03:09of flaky layers and scones are a little kind of harder and drier and stuff.

0:03:13But thus ends muffin gate.

0:03:16Jason, would you say that early January is a quiet time for technology news?

0:03:21No!

0:03:22Well, the muffin conversation would indicate that maybe it is.

0:03:27Let's move on to some follow up in regards to the 3.5mm audio jack.

0:03:33We had a bunch of interesting tweets sent in to us, we picked out a few.

0:03:38The first one is from @LeFrenchFab and they said "Replacing the 3.5mm jack and lightning

0:03:43ports of a smart connector would be a way to waterproof an iPhone. What do you think

0:03:48about that?

0:03:49Yeah, I mean, there are rumors that based on the teardown of the iPhone 6S and 6S Plus

0:03:54that Apple is already kind of experimenting with more water resistance in the iPhone design.

0:04:01And I don't know enough about the design of the headphone jack to know whether it's

0:04:07just always going to be a problem in terms of waterproofing a device, but it is a big,

0:04:12know, hole in your phone that water can get into, so possibly. I'm not sure whether

0:04:18the lightning port is better at that or not, because it is also, you know, it's also

0:04:22a port and it's got a hole that water can get into.

0:04:25So my super unknowledge about all of these things, having just looked at devices, like

0:04:31potentially the lightning port is waterproof because the hole is, it ends, right? Because

0:04:36the port just works via pins, so the pins will just connect and I guess you could seal

0:04:42that all up quite nicely. Because there are phones that exist in the world, like Android

0:04:48phones that are completely waterproof that don't always use little caps or whatever

0:04:53over the sockets like the mini USB or whatever. So maybe it's possible, I don't know if

0:04:58you have to have the smart connector to do that. There are claims that the current iPhone

0:05:03is kind of waterproof, right? People were dropping them in bowls of water and stuff

0:05:07like that.

0:05:08The idea of the smart connector is if you have a smart connector, then there's nothing,

0:05:13right? The smart connector is just a little magnetic—it's not even magnetic, but it's

0:05:17just the three little dots. And then there's also a magnet—the dots aren't magnetic—on

0:05:20the iPad Pro. And so theoretically, you are—there's nothing, right? And if you did a smart connector

0:05:28and you did, if Lightning is waterproofable and if you did like, you could also do, there

0:05:35are rumors about wireless charging, induction charging, then you know, there are ways to

0:05:42make the phones more waterproof. So maybe? I don't know.

0:05:47I don't know enough about what the smart connector can carry, but I would find it incredibly

0:05:52surprising if the smart connector replaced both the 3.5mm jack and the lightning port

0:05:58in the next device. I don't even think that the iPhone is going to get the smart connector

0:06:02for some time if ever. It really feels like, currently, more of an iPad thing. It's to

0:06:09connect big devices that require power physically to them. And I don't think that there is an

0:06:13awful lot of stuff that you could really put an iPhone with. Maybe like a speaker, but

0:06:20Bluetooth is kind of the way to go for that kind of stuff. And there's no magnets. There's

0:06:25no magnets embedded in the iPhone. No, they could put one in though, right? Well, they

0:06:27could, but then they're adding magnets and then what's the surface area of the magnet

0:06:31if they're trying to make it a thinner iPhone? You know, you're reducing the amount of surface

0:06:35area to magnetize something too. It's already kind of a curved side. It would be difficult.

0:06:42Nico suggested, "Couldn't Apple combine Lightning and Bluetooth headphones into one set with

0:06:48the new iPhone. They totally could, I just don't think that they're going to include

0:06:53those. I mean you could maybe have a... Too expensive. Yeah, you could maybe have Bluetooth

0:06:57and lightning right in one little package. That would be nice if they wanted to sell

0:07:01some extra headphones. I expect that this is probably what they'll do with Beats. Sure.

0:07:09You know, put a little lightning port in the headphones so you can charge them from the

0:07:13phone which would be really nice actually to be able to do that. Like if, yeah because

0:07:18one of my issues right now is I have battery anxiety with my Bluetooth headphones and if

0:07:25there was a way to plug my headphones into my iPhone, take a bit of battery from my iPhone

0:07:31and charge my headphones for another hour, that would be kind of sweet. I would like

0:07:35that. You know like in the same way you charge the pencil. I would like that a lot, Jason.

0:07:41Yeah, I think these are good ideas, interesting ideas. So, but I agree with you that it seems

0:07:48unlikely that Apple would include a wireless headset in the box. There'll be a, you know,

0:07:54cheaper pair of ear pods that'll be in the box with some sort of wired connection, you

0:07:59know, presumably lightning if this happens.

0:08:01If we get Bluetooth headphones in the box, the iPhone price just went up. Right? Like,

0:08:07they've just put the price of the iPhone up. I'd be shocked. It's not happening.

0:08:11Joe Steele wrote in, fake name, real person, "Did you guys mention lightning removing the

0:08:15ability to charge and listen at the same time last week?" I might have missed it. I think

0:08:19this is a good point. I don't know if we mentioned it except in passing, but this is one of the

0:08:22use cases that's problematic if all you've got is a lightning port is people often will

0:08:27be listening to their phone while it's charged and you would need to have wireless headphones

0:08:32to do that in this scenario because if you've got lightning plugged in, you can't charge

0:08:38at the same time, if that's your method of charging. And that happens to me all the time.

0:08:44When I'm in the car, when I'm in my car, I've got it paired to Bluetooth, but when I'm in

0:08:49the car that my wife drives, it's paired to her phone and it gets kind of messed up if

0:08:53it's also paired to my phone. And I've just got an AUX IN plug, and so I'll plug it in,

0:08:59and then I'll also plug in the power when we're taking a long drive or something like

0:09:02that. And this would not be possible with this setup. I would have to change how we

0:09:07do that. And it is true, it is an added complication, the idea that if you have to plug your audio

0:09:13device in via lightning, but you also want to charge your phone, there's only one lightning

0:09:19port.

0:09:20Yeah, it's not ideal.

0:09:22Yeah.

0:09:23So we'll see what happens there. Previously in the past, we have spoken about podcasting

0:09:29and audio production tools, and I just wanted to draw attention to a couple that I know

0:09:33that you've been using recently, which are new and are quite cool, I guess, for people

0:09:38that are wanting to make podcasts and stuff like that. Jason, would you like to talk about

0:09:43Chapters and Loopback?

0:09:44Sure, so Chapters is an app that I don't know, I don't think it's been approved by the Mac

0:09:49App Store yet.

0:09:50Yeah, we can assume it'll be around within a week or so, but they have a website together

0:09:54now.

0:09:55But I, yeah, they've got a website and it's been submitted for approval, and I've used

0:09:58a beta of it and basically you point it at an mp3 file and you can put in time

0:10:04time code markers and then save out and it saves out the mp3 file with mp3

0:10:11chapters embedded in it and so if you're using a podcast app that supports

0:10:16chapters mp3 chapters your podcast will then have chapters and we talked about

0:10:21this Overcast supports this now but there are limited numbers of tools I

0:10:26I believe the ATP chapter markers are being made by Marco using a tool he built for himself,

0:10:31but this is a public. Thomas Pritchard wrote it, he sent me a bunch of betas of it as he was working

0:10:38on it. It is a publicly available tool. You bring your own MP3, drop it in, it reads the metadata

0:10:45that you've already got in there, which is kind of nice. So it's not like you've got to re-tag your

0:10:48MP3 and then you go through and say, you know, at eight minutes, 15 seconds, you know, here's the

0:10:53the title, here's the link, and you build up a list and then you save it out and it

0:10:57saves the MP3 with the data in it and then you upload that file. So if you're somebody

0:11:01who is a podcaster who wants to do chapters but has no way to do MP3 chapters, look for

0:11:07chapters, which is going to be in the Mac App Store. And I think it's going to be like

0:11:1020 bucks or something. It's not, you know, he's going to charge for it. But if you're

0:11:14a podcaster who wants to embed chapters, it's probably worth it because I think there

0:11:18are no other Mac tools that do that at this point.

0:11:20Not that I've seen. Thomas has sent me betas for this but I've yet to actually check it

0:11:25out. But it looks really good and it gets the Jason Snow stamp of approval so what more

0:11:30do you need?

0:11:31Yeah, I mean there are other, I will say I have used other tools.

0:11:36Say it so have I.

0:11:37As have you that are not publicly available and may or may not ever be. So I'm not just

0:11:44using Chapters app but I have used Chapters app on a clockwise and on an incomparable

0:11:48and as far as I can tell it works great. So it's nice to see a public tool for this because

0:11:56you know tools that are private or in beta don't help everybody else. So it may be great

0:12:00that I've got a chance to try some of those tools but it doesn't help anyone else. In

0:12:05Chapters App I can say it's you know, assuming Apple approves it it'll be in the Mac App

0:12:09Store and if not then I'm sure he'll put it up on his own. So one way or another you'll

0:12:12be able to get it soon. So chaptersapp.com.

0:12:15All right, and then also Loopback. What is Loopback?

0:12:20Loopback is a new utility from our friends at Rogue Amoeba, makers of AudioHijack. I

0:12:26talked to them a long time ago when they were beta testing AudioHijack. I asked them about

0:12:31a few things. I said, "Can AudioHijack do this?" And it turns out this was definitely

0:12:35not a feature that they had planned for AudioHijack, but they said that they had something else

0:12:40in the works that would probably do it. Loopback is that tool. Basically, one of the things

0:12:44I've talked about this before, it's surprising to me how rudimentary some of the Mac sound

0:12:50subsystems are. It actually makes it not surprising that sound is so poorly handled on iOS in

0:12:56terms of being able to record an input and record across multiple apps at once and all

0:13:01of that, because even on the Mac it's kind of rudimentary. You can't natively in the

0:13:06Mac say, "Record the audio from this app," or "Route the audio from this app to this

0:13:10other app. It's just you can't. You need to add extra software to do that. Audio Hijack

0:13:16is a good example of that. It'll do some routing and it'll also do recording. Loopback

0:13:21is all about kind of routing audio from one device to another. What it does is, if you

0:13:25plug any kind of recording device into your Mac or any output device to your Mac like

0:13:29speakers, and you go to the sound preferences pane, you'll see in the output tab you'll

0:13:34see all the output devices listed and in the input tab you'll see all the input devices

0:13:38What Loopback does is it lets you create "new devices" in quotes that are not real, but

0:13:45what they are is sounds coming from different places mixed by Loopback and then sent back

0:13:52out.

0:13:53So you can create, for example, a good example is Skype.

0:13:55When I was building the Macworld podcast studio, we had a mixer with four microphones on it,

0:14:01but Skype only ever takes track one from any audio device that you set as the microphone.

0:14:06Yeah, we really, really unfortunately found that out whilst trying to record Connected

0:14:11at WWDC last year.

0:14:12Exactly, and Loopback would have solved your problem in one step.

0:14:18So what Loopback you could do is you could create a new device, a new virtual device,

0:14:22and put all four of the audio tracks, the audio from the four tracks on your mixer onto

0:14:28track one of this virtual device.

0:14:31literally just drag them over and drop them on one and then save it and check

0:14:37the box and now that's a new input it's a new microphone you can use you select

0:14:43it in Skype and now you're getting all four together and you can do lots of

0:14:47other things like you can plug in two USB microphones and create one microphone

0:14:51out of it that included the source for both so you could record them

0:14:54simultaneously because one of the things that the Mac sound subsystem doesn't do

0:14:59do is let you kind of aggregate devices in a clean way, and so you can do that with Loop

0:15:07Back. Some of the stuff you can kind of do through Audio Hijack, but there's also some

0:15:12stuff like Audio Hijack won't let you create a new virtual input. It'll let you route audio

0:15:15to existing places, but Loop Back will let you create new channels for audio, including

0:15:23things like saying "play GarageBand to Skype," which is not something that you could otherwise

0:15:28do, and Skype picks up the input of what's coming out of GarageBand and suddenly the sound

0:15:34is flowing across. So it's a pro tool, I think they're an introductory sale for $75,

0:15:41but in the end it's going to be $100. But again, if you were somebody who keeps having

0:15:46kind of crazy--and at Mackerel what we ended up doing is running a line out, basically

0:15:51a headphone jack out of the back of the mixer, and running it into the little audio in on

0:15:57the back of the old iMac that we were using. It's still using, I think they still do it

0:16:01this way. And using that as the microphone for Skype. So Skype people were receiving

0:16:07this weird mixer audio that was coming out of one of the headphone jacks and running

0:16:14through a 3.5mm jack cable to that little mini jack input on the back of the iMac. It's

0:16:22ridiculous, but that was the only way we could get them to hear what we were saying. So this

0:16:27would solve that problem because you could just aggregate everything together. So yeah,

0:16:31loopback, it's cool, it's a cool idea. It's, you know, it's not for everybody, but you

0:16:36know, you'll know it if you need it because you'll have that moment where you're like,

0:16:38"How do I do this?" And the only answer will be to get loopback or try something like Soundflower,

0:16:43which does similar things, but that's an open source project that has been not developed

0:16:48very well over the years. It's sort of on and off as many open source projects are,

0:16:53and I find its interface to be almost impenetrable.

0:16:55So once you install Soundflower, it is incredibly difficult to uninstall Soundflower.

0:17:01Yes.

0:17:02Yeah.

0:17:03So loopback is much more straightforward.

0:17:04And if you uncheck all the boxes, if you're like, "I wonder if loopback is slowing down

0:17:08my system or doing other things that I don't want to my sound," you just uncheck the boxes

0:17:12and loopback of the virtual inputs and they go away and then they're gone.

0:17:15So yeah.

0:17:17So definitely people should check it out if they are in need of a utility like that.

0:17:21Oh, oh, oh, there's one more bit of follow-up I wanted to do, which is I got something wrong

0:17:25last week, I said that I thought that Lightning currently could do analog audio out, and that's

0:17:30not true. I actually got that mixed up from the speculation on an episode of ATP that

0:17:35they thought that they could do, they could build analog audio out into Lightning, which

0:17:41they could do but they haven't done. So it's possible that one thing that Apple could do

0:17:46would be to update Lightning so that one of the things that it could do was send out analog

0:17:51audio thereby preventing you from needing a DAC in the external audio device, a digital

0:17:58to analog converter. Although, as Marco pointed out to me privately, Marco Arment from Podcasting's

0:18:04ATP, the DACs are cheap, so it probably wouldn't be a big deal for most devices to have their

0:18:10own DAC, although the one on the iPhone is pretty good, and so getting the analog signal

0:18:14out from the iPhone might be preferable to having whatever DAC would be in your external

0:18:19audio device. But anyway, that's about speculation and not fact, and I stated it as fact. So

0:18:23I apologize. ATP is part of my reality, apparently.

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0:20:28You call it wake 'em and not whack 'em?

0:20:31I don't know anymore.

0:20:32I'm losing my voice a little bit.

0:20:34I don't know if you'd notice that today, Jason.

0:20:36No.

0:20:37Yeah, it's just a little bit croaky.

0:20:38So, it's nothing to worry about.

0:20:42You sound like a professional. Yeah, just as an aside to the listeners out

0:20:46there, if anybody has any good resources for vocal exercises, please send them to me. I

0:20:52would love to know. As the more I do this, Jason, the more worried I get about losing

0:20:59my voice completely, and what would I do if that happened?

0:21:05It is true. This comes up at conferences sometimes. I do have those moments where I realize that

0:21:12if I'm planning to do a podcast the next day or something like that, like I kind

0:21:15of need to actually watch my voice, which is a little weird because what would be

0:21:21the impact of having a croaky voice the next day? But if you have to do podcasts

0:21:25or presentations of some sort, it matters. It really does. It's weird. It's like

0:21:30suddenly we've turned into singers, you know, "I need my tea with lemon before I

0:21:35I can go on. I don't know how that happened. Crumb crisp coating.

0:21:42Jason, talking about good audio for podcasting and things like that, you have done something

0:21:48that would in theory ruin your audio. Yeah.

0:21:52Would you like to demonstrate what you have done?

0:21:55Uh, okay, sure.

0:21:58That, ladies and gentlemen, is a horribly quick keyboard, which I'm sure Jason would

0:22:05not be able to use during this show quietly.

0:22:08What have you bought?

0:22:09I'm very intrigued about this.

0:22:12I don't know why I did it, but I've been intrigued by going back to mechanical switch keyboards

0:22:18for a while now.

0:22:19I have not spent a lot of time exploring it.

0:22:21I used a Matthias Tactile Pro for a little while.

0:22:25I have, um, I mean, I used back in the day and I do actually have an Apple

0:22:29extended keyboard, although the ADB USB adapters are not particularly reliable.

0:22:33And it's a little frustrating.

0:22:35Um, the classic kind of battleship, but the thing is I like, um, I, so I always

0:22:41thought maybe I should go back to a mechanical keyboard.

0:22:44I've talked about how I don't like key travel, like short key travel on this, on

0:22:48the show, like the Mac book keyboard.

0:22:49And I thought, well, um, maybe someday I will explore that.

0:22:53And actually Joshua Topolski, formerly of The Verge and Bloomberg, now doing mysterious startup things,

0:22:58posted a tweet with a picture of this keyboard. And it was this little keyboard, had no 10 key,

0:23:06no number pad. It was a super tiny keyboard. It didn't even have a function key row.

0:23:10And it had like kind of different colored keys on it. And I looked at it and I was like, "Ooh,

0:23:17"Ooh!" I was surprised to find myself really kind of intrigued by that, and I asked him what it was,

0:23:24and I spent, you know, three months basically, four months not buying it, but just sort of

0:23:30thinking about it. And I looked at some other mechanical keyboards. Matthias makes a mini

0:23:36keyboard in a couple of different versions, because I didn't--I do all my pointing with my

0:23:42trackpad on my the right side of my keyboard and I don't need a number pad

0:23:47I don't want a number pad and all the number head pad does is push the trackpad further away from me

0:23:52So I wanted I want something that is apparently we learned called 10 keyless

0:23:59Okay, that's a keyboard term and and I looked at Matthias's mini tactile Pro and mini quiet Pro

0:24:06Which are both ten keyless keyboards there. They're bigger

0:24:09they've got a bigger bezel and they've got a function key row at the top and

0:24:12and it's funny because they make a quiet one that is only in a PC layout and then

0:24:21the loud one they make only in a Mac layout. Quiet is a is an interesting

0:24:27word to use because it's not quiet. It's not it well it's much quieter than their

0:24:31normal keyboards. It should be the quieter rather than the quiet. It's true

0:24:37It's true. So I thought about those and I might yet get one of those

0:24:40I don't know

0:24:41But what I did was I actually got the same basically the same one that Joshua Topolski had which was a Leopold

0:24:46FC 660 M. This is a

0:24:49Korean I

0:24:52Think it's a Korean. Well, it's made in Taiwan. I

0:24:55Don't know whether the company is Korean or Chinese. I got it from

0:24:59somebody in in

0:25:02Korea on eBay because that seems to be the best place to get them is you buy them on eBay from somebody in Korea

0:25:07And then they come to you. It's weird

0:25:09And I've been using it for the last week, and it's uh it's interesting

0:25:14I I bought some custom key caps because it comes with a windows keyboard layout so actually I had to change the you know

0:25:21There's a system setting that you can set per keyboard which is pretty cool in os 10

0:25:25it didn't used to be that way to flip the

0:25:28Command and option keys to be the other way around which you need to do for a Windows keyboard

0:25:32I bought some custom key caps. So I replaced the

0:25:36Alt keys with actual keys that say command on them

0:25:41I still have a Windows key. That's my option key

0:25:44I need to get a blank key at the very least and and

0:25:47Replace that so that I don't have to stare at the Windows logo because why why would I want to do that?

0:25:52I do all the time. I have

0:25:55Microsoft sculpt ergonomic keyboards and I have to look at the Windows logo.

0:25:58You could do, but if I can get away to not do that, then I will choose that.

0:26:02So I bought some custom keycaps for it, and it's just been kind of fun.

0:26:07What I've learned is that I really love it for when I'm in the zone writing, just typing away

0:26:17a lot. It really is great. It is, you know, you feel every key click, you can hear it,

0:26:25uh, you're, you're, you're writing up a storm, you get some almost like it feels almost like

0:26:30momentum or like you're, you're, you're, it's like horses galloping. It's just click, click,

0:26:36click. You just, you're going, that's great. When I'm doing something like editing up,

0:26:39editing a podcast or just kind of clicking around and looking at Twitter and looking

0:26:43at Skype and doing occasional key clicks that are like clunk, clunk, clunk. It seems kind

0:26:48of ridiculous. Like it's overkill for that. It's too much. I don't need feedback for those

0:26:52sorts of things. Perhaps one day some geniuses will create a keyboard that is entirely artificial

0:26:59like the Magic Trackpad 2 and you can set your sound and tactile levels per operation,

0:27:11perhaps in the wonderful future we'll get there. But as it is, that's my thought,

0:27:15is that I kind of like it, I kind of love it for writing, but when I'm just kind of

0:27:21mousing around and then doing keyboard shortcuts, it seems like really overkill. That said,

0:27:27since I've been using it, I went back, so I kept my little Logitech Bluetooth keyboard

0:27:31for podcasting, because I do need a quiet keyboard while I'm podcasting, which is dumb,

0:27:37But that is part of this story.

0:27:40And I started typing on it and I thought, "Ew."

0:27:44Suddenly I feel much less charitable toward that keyboard and I see what the mechanical

0:27:48keyboard people see in them and have against the kind of mushy keyboards.

0:27:53Because while I've been really used to the MacBook style, not the new MacBook, but the

0:27:57kind of MacBook Air, MacBook Pro style, which is also in a lot of these Bluetooth keyboards,

0:28:01of a sudden, I can see that they feel kind of weird and mushy compared to the mechanical

0:28:08ones.

0:28:10I understand the idea of the sound and how it makes you feel. Like if I ever, I mean,

0:28:16basically all of the writing of any kind that I do these days is occurring on my iPad Pro

0:28:20as many things are. And that makes a noise.

0:28:24Oh, that's true.

0:28:26the smart keyboard, right? Like, it's a... I don't think it's a satisfying sound, but

0:28:33it makes a noise. And when I'm typing on it, like, I kind of like that sound. Like the

0:28:37"tik tik tik tik" noise that it makes.

0:28:39Just a little bit of... Yeah, I mean, this is all about degrees here. I did actually

0:28:43attach this to my iPad Pro using a USB adapter, because it's a USB keyboard, it's not a Bluetooth

0:28:48keyboard. And that was hilarious and weird, to have this clicky keyboard attached to an

0:28:56iPad Pro. That was kind of maybe a bridge too far. But it worked. Totally worked.

0:29:04So there you go. For all you people that like super clicky keyboards, Jason has got you

0:29:08covered. Yeah, you can check it out. I'll let you

0:29:10know what I think about it in the long run. Like I said, I'm feeling good about it as

0:29:13a writing tool. It is kind of ridiculous because it is loud and it's very old school. I also

0:29:21just love I love how it looks I love how small it is it's just this tiny tiny

0:29:26thing it's got almost no bezel it's got no function key row and I used I

0:29:32downloaded actually keyboard maestro which I used back like when it was a

0:29:36first I think before Peter Lewis bought it way back when and and that's actually

0:29:42a really great utility that I've known was really great but I've never used

0:29:46personally in since very very early versions and that's been great because

0:29:51it can do some mapping of keys to different things that I need on this

0:29:57keyboard because it's not quite the keyboard I'm used to like the the the

0:30:01tilde and single tick key that's usually in the upper left hand corner isn't on

0:30:06this keyboard it's an that's where the escape key goes so I needed to map that

0:30:11key like command of that key to the command tilde that you do to cycle

0:30:17through windows a little stuff like that along with some more complicated stuff

0:30:21that I've been playing with, so it's been fun to use Keyboard Maestro a little bit too,

0:30:25which I haven't had reason to try for a while.

0:30:29There you go. Beautiful.

0:30:32Just after last week's episode, Apple dropped something upon us.

0:30:37Almost during the episode.

0:30:38Yeah, pretty much. And it's the iOS 9.3 preview. So at this point, there's probably not much

0:30:46use in us going through what the 9.3 preview includes.

0:30:51Well there's a, and I think this is the most interesting part of the story,

0:30:54there's a page on Apple's website that details what is in iOS 9.3.

0:30:59Yeah, which makes it different from being just a beta, right? It is a preview in that

0:31:03Apple is

0:31:04previewing it to the world, which is a new thing.

0:31:07Is this the first time they've ever done this, like for a point release? I feel like

0:31:12maybe yes?

0:31:14I think outside of WWDC announcements, it's the first time that Apple has done a marketing

0:31:20push for the initial developer release of an OS update.

0:31:26And I think it's really smart.

0:31:30They talked about this a bit on ETP last week, so it's worth people listening to that too.

0:31:33I agreed with their thoughts about it there.

0:31:36I think it's smart of Apple, because what happens is inevitable.

0:31:42They release it just to developers, it's a beta, it's under NDA, and then within a couple

0:31:46of hours all the rumor sites, all the other news sites that cover developer betas have

0:31:51detailed everything that's in the betas and speculated about things that are, you know,

0:31:55the next day it's speculated about things that are suggested in the betas, and it goes

0:31:58on and on.

0:31:59So if you're Apple, why wouldn't you own that?

0:32:02If you know that people are going to cover it, why wouldn't you own that?

0:32:04You're allowing the people who are reporting on developer betas to control the story of

0:32:11your, not your major update that comes at WWDC, but your minor updates that come other

0:32:16times that might have a few features in them. And if you're proud of those features, why

0:32:20would you not make, it's not like they did a huge press blitz, but they did post a page

0:32:25saying here's what's coming in iOS 9.3, here are these features and they'll be coming soon.

0:32:30And it's very clear that the reason you do that is because they know people are going

0:32:33to write about it as soon as it goes into beta, so they might as well get on top of

0:32:36it and tell their own story. And that's smart marketing, that's smart PR. So that's what

0:32:41they did. And I think it's really smart, but I feel like that is a new thing. That is,

0:32:45to just jump out there like that, that's a new thing. And smart.

0:32:50Do you think this signifies anything? So Dan and I talked about it on Clockwise, I think,

0:32:58and the Six Color Secret Subscriber podcast too, but then Dan wrote a story about it on

0:33:05Mac world and you know there was some interesting response to that because like

0:33:09Mark Gurman was like oh this isn't new they have had notable dot releases

0:33:13before but I think I think what's notable is that this is new features

0:33:16that haven't been promised before that are being rolled into this version of

0:33:22the OS instead of iOS version 10 and I think that that might be different than

0:33:27we've seen before it might not be I saw a lot of people who are involved in

0:33:30education saying the problem with iOS 10 is that the education cycle happens

0:33:35earlier than that in terms of planning for education for the school year, and that if

0:33:39they've got something that is announced in summer and ships in the fall, it's too late

0:33:43for education. So taking the education feature of user logins, which is something that's

0:33:49one of the banner features that's going to be in this 9.3 update, and pulling it forward

0:33:53maybe is more about timing and doing some education updates earlier rather than waiting

0:33:59all the way until fall, because they've got quite a battle with Chromebooks in schools.

0:34:04So I think that might be part of it. What my speculation was, and I think Dan's speculation

0:34:09is, I wonder if this is also a hint that Apple's going to be a little less monolithic with

0:34:14the iOS updates and roll some features out throughout the year, including new features,

0:34:20not just features that are promised but not yet delivered or attached to new hardware.

0:34:25Because none of these things are attached to new hardware nor were they promised. Not

0:34:29the new version of basically Flux that will get rid of the blue light on your device screen

0:34:37at night, not the user login. These are things that are not things that we had heard about

0:34:43before and now here they are. Or they're in the betas and they're coming.

0:34:48Yeah, so there's slight precedent, right? In the last year, 18 months, there have been

0:34:56updates to the devices that are relatively large things that have come with point releases,

0:35:02right? So Apple Pay internationally, Apple Music and stuff like that.

0:35:08That's why they weren't the minor releases, that's why they got the whole point.

0:35:11Yeah, exactly. So there's been more of that happening, but what makes this one different

0:35:16is that we didn't know about any of this stuff until the beta came, which that's the new

0:35:22part of this right is that it is unannounced so what do you think this

0:35:28says for WWDC do you have any kind of feeling about whether we're gonna get

0:35:339.5 or are we gonna get 10 if you're reading the tea leaves what would you

0:35:38say is gonna happen here my gut feeling is that is that we'll get 10 because

0:35:42that's how Apple has done it every single time before so why not but you

0:35:46know this made me at least stop and think what would it be like if what they

0:35:50did was announce iOS 9.5 and said actually what we're gonna do is we're

0:35:54gonna we're gonna do 9.5 now and we're gonna release it you know soon and then

0:35:59in the fall you'll see 9.6 and then in the spring you'll see 9.7 and that we're

0:36:05gonna we're gonna do some some individual releases over time we've got

0:36:09everything worked out now we've got we can push updates to everybody

0:36:13automatically we can push updates to developers automatically we can push

0:36:16them to the beta testers automatically and then we can push them to the users

0:36:19automatically. We don't need to be in this monolithic cycle where we're changing everything

0:36:23once a year. We can break it down a little further. They could totally do that, and I

0:36:26think that's interesting. Will they do that? I don't know. I mean, it seems more likely

0:36:32that they won't because that would require them to change their ways, but I'm kind

0:36:36of interested by it just because I wonder sometimes if that would be a better way to

0:36:42roll out features and make the process for developers and users a little smoother, just

0:36:47sort of spread out the OS development over the course of many months. They could also

0:36:53do iOS 10 and still have sort of more impressive updates in the interim before the next year

0:37:02at WWDC. They could still use WWDC as the stake in the ground where they make some bigger

0:37:07changes, but also not have it be that if a feature doesn't get in, it has to wait a year,

0:37:13which is sort of what it's been like for most features up to now. I don't know, what do

0:37:17you think?

0:37:18I think that we may see WWDC as the starting point of this occurring from iOS 10 onward,

0:37:28and that they are putting 9.3 out now as an example, like trying to set the stage. So

0:37:36basically from 10 we may see a change. I actually do think that at 10, and I'm just going to

0:37:43throw this out there, I think that there will be a change in the naming convention for iOS.

0:37:49At a certain point the numbers get too high, and 10 feels like a better time to change

0:37:54that than 20, because why would you change it at any other point?

0:37:58So if you're going to change it, you may as well go for it now.

0:38:01I wonder if they're, you know, they probably will give it the numeral 10 if they're going

0:38:05to give it anything, but I think we may see some kind of change.

0:38:08Because like for example, Google from a branding perspective, they're able to put out smaller

0:38:14updates to the OS but give it a brand new name because they just go over letter every

0:38:18time and they give it a candy name.

0:38:21But Marshmallow was a smaller update than KitKat and whatever L was, I can't remember.

0:38:30It was actually a smaller update.

0:38:31Lollipop.

0:38:32Lollipop, that's it.

0:38:33But it still had the branding of a full number.

0:38:36So I think we may see Apple go that route, you know, as they have shown us that they

0:38:41can do and do with OS X.

0:38:44I personally think we're going to see something there.

0:38:46But I also believe that we're going to see a change in the way that OS updates are pushed

0:38:53out.

0:38:54And I think that they will be more staggered, more staged, which I assume internally for

0:38:58Apple will mean that things can maybe stay in the oven a little bit longer, which would

0:39:02benefit everybody.

0:39:04so I do really hope that this is the case and because there will be a marketing risk

0:39:08for not doing big number releases at WWDC every year, I hope that they're able to

0:39:13do some marketing magic to make it look better than it is and personally I think that giving

0:39:20them names rather than numbers will help that.

0:39:22So, I think those are good points. I do think it's possible. I think this is one of those

0:39:30those things that I mean who can tell for sure being on the outside but it would seem

0:39:33to me that going to a cycle like this might might be better in terms of the features that

0:39:39are ready get in and the features that aren't ready can go next time and and just my gut

0:39:45feeling is and again it's just a gut feel so it could be wrong but is that changing

0:39:49everything once a year in one monolithic update and then doing bug fixes for year seems like

0:39:55that would be more dramatic and fraught than changing, you know, having a bigger change

0:40:02once a year and then a bunch of smaller changes at a few, you know, or not a bunch, but like

0:40:06three more smaller changes, let's say quarterly updates or three updates a year. It just seems

0:40:12like that would be more sensible and comfortable for everybody. It means developers don't have

0:40:17to invest all their time all summer long on adopting all the new features of the OS. Apple,

0:40:23So the arguments against this are, there are a few of them. You mentioned one, which is

0:40:26marketing. There's also the argument about WWDC's value being you roll out all the

0:40:31new platforms there and then the developers get them. Taking the second one first, I think

0:40:35what we saw with the Apple Watch development, which although it didn't, you know, it

0:40:39didn't go well because there were issues with the platform not being very strong, they

0:40:42were able to roll out the Apple Watch SDK and all of that and developers got that and

0:40:47they didn't need to be at WWDC. And most developers aren't at WWDC, right? So yeah,

0:40:52Yeah, but I don't think that the marketing thing is an issue to how you market to developers.

0:40:56It's how you market to the general public.

0:40:58Let me take these separately.

0:41:00So the developer issue I think is not an issue.

0:41:02I think the fear that, well, if you don't introduce all your new features at WWDC, the

0:41:06developers, you aren't communicating well with the developers, it's already been shown.

0:41:10Apple has lots of other means to communicate with developers.

0:41:13They've done a good job with it.

0:41:14I don't think that's the problem.

0:41:16Marketing is the issue.

0:41:18And I would dispute what you said.

0:41:20I am not sure that Apple needs marketing about an OS update and I'm really not sure that

0:41:29they need marketing about an OS update three months before it happens.

0:41:33So the marketing issue I don't think is what anybody needs or what people think they need.

0:41:40The problem now is if Apple do not do a full number release at WWDC there will be stories

0:41:48written in the general press about how Apple is slowing down, Apple's failing. That's

0:41:53the problem that they're in, right? Because then these things, they leak into the minds

0:41:57of the general public. I think that's where—that's the only reason I think that this problem exists,

0:42:03and it's not necessarily an accurate one, but that's not the point. That's not the

0:42:08thing to worry about, right? It's how things are perceived, which is the issue.

0:42:12I so I see what you're saying if I'm if I'm Apple I

0:42:17Would if I'm at Apple I would advocate for the fact that

0:42:22And this is a family podcast so I won't use the phrase that I would probably use in the meeting

0:42:27Which is I don't think those kind of criticisms matter. I think that's chattering. I think that's inside baseball stuff

0:42:34I think that the most important part in terms of marketing their products is when the new products the new hardware comes out and

0:42:41And I think it would be much better to have these key features highlighted when you roll

0:42:48out the new iPhone every year, which people really pay attention to, than this event that's

0:42:53super technical and it's geared toward developers, but there's this little PR angle that's

0:42:59in it too, where you're talking about a new version of software that's got some

0:43:02very particular features and isn't going to ship for three months.

0:43:05It is something that's a big deal for our audience and that maybe, yeah, the financial

0:43:11analysts who are always writing about how Apple is doomed, you know, they may behave

0:43:17even worse if it's taken away from them. But I think for the general public, it's

0:43:21the worst event Apple does every year because it's not tangible, usually. There usually

0:43:28isn't a product that comes out of it. And OS updates are kind of, you know, they're

0:43:33very much this intangible thing. It's like, "Oh, there's going to be a feature.

0:43:36Well, do I get it now? No, you don't get it until September or October. Oh, well, why

0:43:40do I care?" So I could totally see Apple saying, "We're going to take a step back and not

0:43:47make as big a deal about OS betas at WWDC and instead build our, you know, extol the

0:43:55virtues of our hardware and the software features that come with them when we launch the hardware."

0:44:00I think that argument can be made.

0:44:03I understand your argument and I think that it's true.

0:44:07That would be the downside of abandoning the huge monolithic software release.

0:44:13But as you said, you could also market the small release and say, "This is the year

0:44:19of El Capitan.

0:44:22This is the year of the mountain lion," or whatever back in the day, and you'll see

0:44:28some stuff across the year instead of it all being dropped in a load over the summertime

0:44:33and shipped in September.

0:44:35I completely agree with you and I take the view that it is possible to manage this and

0:44:40put a good spin on it, but the way that I look at it, that is a risk though still, right,

0:44:45because you can assume everything but you never know how people are going to react.

0:44:49I personally believe that it is that risk that we're not sure factor, which is what

0:44:56could be potentially holding them up internally from making a change like this. But I think

0:45:02that it is more than possible for Apple to deal with this and put it in those terms.

0:45:08But I think that it's something worth watching, and I do think it's going to happen post-10,

0:45:15but it will be interesting to see what they do at number 10.

0:45:19It's actually logical, in fact. You could make the argument that 10 is a great place,

0:45:24you alluded to this earlier, 10 is a great place to say we've reached a milestone, here's

0:45:30how we're going to handle this going forward. Even if the analysts look back and go, "Oh,

0:45:35you know, 93 was kind of a hint in this direction," that maybe that would be something that they

0:45:40would do. I don't know. I mean, we're just guessing here, but I think you're right in

0:45:43saying, if you're going to change the way that you handle operating system stuff, then

0:45:49doing it on a number, on a big number like 10 is not a bad way to do it. I also, again,

0:45:55I wouldn't put, I think there's a percentage chance that they just punt about dealing with

0:46:00the number 10 for a year and say, "We're going to do 9.5 and it's going to be awesome

0:46:05and it's going to have all these features and, you know, and then we'll do, you know,

0:46:10we'll do some other updates over the course of the year and not, and just not call it

0:46:1410. I think that that still could happen, although, you know, I think it's less likely.

0:46:20I think the most likely thing is to expect what we've seen, which is new number.

0:46:24>> Well, one of the things that seems strange to me about this is why did they put a new

0:46:29user feature, an unrequested user feature like night shift in 9.3 and not hold it over

0:46:34for 10? >> Good question.

0:46:36>> I can't work -- I can't wrap my head around that one. Like, the education stuff, throw

0:46:42it in 9.3, bug fixes and changes and some of the other stuff that they've done in 9.3,

0:46:48that's fine because that fits with a point release, right?

0:46:52Oh, here's a bunch of stuff.

0:46:54It's things that we're putting in, little bits and bobs and here you go, take that.

0:46:59And oh, if you're in education, this is what you get for 9.3, this is really great.

0:47:04But night shift is something that's cool.

0:47:06I like it a lot.

0:47:09been a bit of hubbub about Flux but that was nowhere even near like a mass market amongst

0:47:15tech nerds right like yeah this is not something that everybody uses and or wanted. Additions

0:47:23to Notes, News and Health would have and CarPlay would have been enough for 9.3 from a user

0:47:29focus I'm really perplexed about what putting something like Night Shift into iOS 9.3 means

0:47:37for WWDC. So I've got a theory. My theory about why

0:47:41they did it is that there was this very minor in our community hubbub about Flux and somebody,

0:47:49my theory is that, and this is based on no information, is that somebody at Apple said,

0:47:53"Well, why don't we do that?" And maybe even some engineer said, "Well, actually,

0:47:58we did do that. It's not implemented all the way yet, but we're working on that and

0:48:03that's on the roadmap. And maybe they're saying, "Well, let's put it in 9.3. If it's close

0:48:10and you think it's fairly simply done, maybe we should just put it into 9.3 rather than

0:48:14holding it for the fall again." Or maybe there's an attitude like, "Well, we want these feature

0:48:21updates to be a little more substantive than they've been in the past, and that's a pretty

0:48:23good feature to pull forward. It's fairly simple. We could implement that fairly quickly.

0:48:28Maybe we're already working on it. Let's pull that forward." My guess is that it may

0:48:32have been pulled forward because it became part of the conversation a little bit and

0:48:37Apple thought that there was some maybe even good PR to be done by saying look how great

0:48:41we are in you know making our mobile devices gentler on your eyes and that's a little

0:48:48a nice little feature. So I've got some those are my kind of theories about it is

0:48:53that is that you know it's some combination of those things. It's a fairly small feature

0:48:58it was probably already being discussed and it would be something that could be slipped

0:49:01into a small version like this rather than, you know, waiting to roll it out to everybody

0:49:06in September.

0:49:07Yeah, I mean, I can totally see that. The thing that I just find so strange about it

0:49:13is iOS 9 was not a big release, really. There actually wasn't a ton in it. There was lots

0:49:20for the iPad, but that was kind of it. And I wonder what the next version will bring,

0:49:28is, I'm interested to see, are we going to get a lot again, or is it going to be not

0:49:35so much? And if it's not so much, then why did they put a user feature in now? You know?

0:49:41Night shift also is funny because it is really simple. Like, it's a switch.

0:49:45Yeah, but it's a nice little thing, right? And it's just a thing you can see, it's a

0:49:49thing you can demonstrate. But what interests me about it is that it's super simple, and

0:49:54I look at it and I immediately think like you could tie this to Do Not Disturb, you

0:49:59could put it on Mission Control, or is that what it's called?

0:50:04Control Center.

0:50:05Control Center, the thing you flip up from the bottom, you can put a button there to

0:50:08toggle it on and off.

0:50:09None of that was done, right?

0:50:10It's just, it's kind of off in the display settings and it's there and you can turn it

0:50:14on if you want to.

0:50:15So it's not like it couldn't, it could be a lot more integrated into the system than

0:50:19it is.

0:50:20So, for 9.3 it looks like, unless they add features, it seems most likely that for 9.3

0:50:26it's going to be this super simple feature, like it's there if you want it.

0:50:29And maybe it gets more integrated into the system down the road.

0:50:32So that's kind of interesting too, that it does seem to be a very simple implementation

0:50:37to get it in the system.

0:50:39Driven now, people will say, "Well, why not just let Flux into the App Store or let Flux

0:50:43distribute it?"

0:50:44I think this goes to the core of the OS, is that there's stuff that Flux does as an app

0:50:50is just that Apple just cannot allow a lot an app to do that there's no public

0:50:55API for controlling this stuff and they don't like the way that flux I mean flux

0:51:01is acting on the entire display whether it's running or not basically it's

0:51:05pretty invasive and I'm pretty sure that the engineers at Apple said we cannot

0:51:10allow that app and it does too much but this is the sort of thing that needs to

0:51:14be tackled by the system this is a system feature you know not only should

0:51:18it be a system feature but it needs to be a system feature rather than being

0:51:22done by a third-party app and I I strongly agree with that that this this

0:51:27is something flux exists because the OS is haven't cared about this not because

0:51:32it should be a third-party app that does it so I don't know it's interesting

0:51:38we're reading the tea leaves again but it does seem like apples you know apples

0:51:41trying some different stuff and that web page is the best example of it because

0:51:45that is them getting out in front of the story and saying this is an update

0:51:47that's coming you know basically stealing the thunder of the sites that

0:51:53got to make some hay reporting on the details of the first developer beta.

0:51:59I mean the reason we read the tea leaves on this stuff is because Apple do things

0:52:04a very specific way pretty much all of the time so when they do something

0:52:10different it is like a pause for thought right you're like huh what are you doing

0:52:15here. This is a new one. Set up and pay attention. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and they've been doing

0:52:18that a lot lately. This is, this is, Apple was very understandable for a long time. They

0:52:24went in cycles, they had the rules, you could see what the rule book is, and there is definitely

0:52:29a culture at Apple today that is questioning some of the rules, and why do we have to do

0:52:34it the way that it's always been. And some of that is Tim Cook instead of Steve. Some

0:52:38of that is Katie Cotton, the head of communications, leaving. There are new people in positions

0:52:45of authority and I think they're questioning some of the old assumptions.

0:52:48This one, I have to say, no matter what it means for Apple's long-term software development,

0:52:51I think this was such a good idea to get out in front of it.

0:52:55If you're Apple, why are you letting 9to5Mac and MacRumors write stories introducing new

0:53:03features that are coming to your operating system?

0:53:05Why?

0:53:06Why are you doing that?

0:53:07We don't live in a world where developer betas are a secret.

0:53:10They're not.

0:53:11You know they're not a secret.

0:53:12So why pretend that they don't exist until…

0:53:15I know it would be better if you could just deliver the features on the day of and communicate

0:53:20them, but you can't.

0:53:21So get out in front of it.

0:53:22Take control of your own story.

0:53:24And I think it's great that they did.

0:53:25It's super smart.

0:53:26Should have done it a long time ago, but you know what?

0:53:30They did it.

0:53:31And I think it's a really smart move for them.

0:53:35Is there anything else in 9-3 you wanted to talk about?

0:53:39I wanted to ask you…

0:53:42I've gotten reports that people who use the Apple Pencil are very unhappy with the first

0:53:46developer beta of 9.3. Have you tried it with your Apple Pencil?

0:53:49Sure have. And I wrote a little thing on my Tumblr blog just voicing my frustrations.

0:53:57And I want to make this very clear because I just do. I fully understand that this is

0:54:04a beta. I fully understand that there could be bugs. I get all of that.

0:54:08This could be a bug.

0:54:09This could be a bug, this could be a change in direction, whatever it is is different.

0:54:14So now the Apple Pencil on 9.3 no longer is able to scroll UI lists and interact with

0:54:24the UI as a replacement for a finger.

0:54:27It only works to draw and write.

0:54:30Now this is a big change in the way that this is working.

0:54:34Of course it is potential for a bug, but because this is so disruptive to me, I wanted to talk

0:54:41about it and bring it up just to kind of voice my concern.

0:54:46That if this is a change in the way that the Apple Pencil interacts with the iPad, I think

0:54:52Apple is making a big mistake.

0:54:55Because currently in 9.3, there is nothing to suggest any change to the Apple Pencil to

0:55:01make it, to give it any extra benefit. There is nothing that removing this function is

0:55:08allowing me to do. That may be Apple's plan, but as I say, all I can do is say what I'm

0:55:14seeing and what I'm seeing is now it has been decided that they don't want people to be

0:55:20scrolling UI and using their iPads as pen input devices. So that is a concern to me

0:55:29if that is the way it's going to be going forward because I don't know why they would

0:55:36stop that other than a "You mustn't use our device in this way." And that is a concern

0:55:43for me. It seems like a bad user experience in the sense that you have to mode shift.

0:55:47You have to take the pencil out of your hands and do things and then put the pencil back

0:55:50in your hands. Yeah. Where oftentimes you're just switching. You're going "I'm going

0:55:53to tap this and scroll this and then I'm going to draw." I have two theories. One

0:55:57is that this is a bug. Okay, three theories. One is it's just a bug. One is what they're

0:56:02trying to do is give developers the opportunity to decide whether they want to ignore pencil

0:56:09input for things that are not drawing and that this is the kind of emergence of that

0:56:13and then it'll get fixed. And the third theory would be that it's going to be a setting that

0:56:18allows the system to determine whether you want to lock out UI interactions for pencil

0:56:24and only use it for drawing.

0:56:25Because I can see where some people might say,

0:56:28God, the pencil drives me crazy.

0:56:30I'm just trying to draw with it.

0:56:32Why does it keep trying to do these UI things?

0:56:34So I don't know whether that's true or not,

0:56:36but I could see how that might be.

0:56:37So those are my theories is that this is, you know,

0:56:40that this is not Apple saying,

0:56:41no, you'll never use your pencil as this,

0:56:43but that more likely it's either a bug

0:56:44or they're trying to do something that gives

0:56:47either the system or the developers a little more control

0:56:49of whether that non-drawing input can be ignored or not.

0:56:53That's my theory. - Yeah, I would hope

0:56:54that either of those is true, as opposed to just no.

0:56:58Because that's my thing, right?

0:56:59Like if there's a benefit, if there is some reason

0:57:02that this is being stopped, then that would be great,

0:57:05but that definitely isn't the case right now.

0:57:09I would even call for Apple to put a toggle

0:57:12for this in accessibility.

0:57:13Because I think that there is a good use case

0:57:17for accessibility here as well.

0:57:19- Yeah, I agree. - It definitely is for me

0:57:21because for RSI and things like that,

0:57:23is way more comfortable for me to use the pen input.

0:57:27That is my gut feeling, is this is a side effect of them trying to do something different,

0:57:34and that in future betas we'll see it. But you're right, if this was in the final product,

0:57:39you would be right to scream bloody murder about it, but it's a beta, so on one level

0:57:43we want to disclaim it, on another level we want to kind of draw attention to it in case

0:57:48is happening in Apple. People at Apple don't know. You filed a radar, right?

0:57:54I didn't file a radar, but somebody else filed a radar. I sent feedback through the feedback

0:58:00app that comes on the device, which I believe goes into radar.

0:58:04Yeah, I think so.

0:58:06But, you know, I got a lot of that people telling me, "You should file a radar," for

0:58:11people that hadn't actually read what I'd written in the post, which I specifically

0:58:15said I put the radar number that somebody else had filed and sent to me.

0:58:20Very nice.

0:58:21And then I filed my own feedback.

0:58:23So yeah, look, I understand how this stuff works, right, but I wanted to bring it up

0:58:27because I also understand how that stuff works as well.

0:58:31Yeah.

0:58:32Sometimes you have to kind of make a little bit of noise for people to understand what

0:58:36the issues are.

0:58:37It's very interesting.

0:58:38So I'm going to wait and see on that one.

0:58:40It's a shame.

0:58:42Some people said to me to roll back, right?

0:58:44Oh, you should roll back to 9.2 if this is a big problem for you.

0:58:47But I don't want to do that because if it's going to go away, I need to start getting

0:58:50used to it at some point.

0:58:52So maybe that time will be now.

0:58:53And plus rolling back is a nightmare.

0:58:57All right, let's move on to Ask Upgrade.

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1:01:11All right, so ask upgrade, Jason, it is time.

1:01:17John would like to know which Apple TV model did you purchase

1:01:22and how much space do you have left?

1:01:25So I went with a 32 gigabytes.

1:01:27I have no idea how much space I have left.

1:01:29I know it would be a lot because I don't install a lot of stuff on it.

1:01:33I have the same answer as you. I bought the cheapest Apple TV for, and I don't know how much space I have left, and I kind of don't care, because that's not how I use it.

1:01:45I don't want to manage the space on it, and it hasn't been a problem up to now. But I don't have a lot of stuff on it. I have, you know, ten apps or something like that.

1:01:53Yeah, so it's not an issue.

1:01:55Sorry, Jon. We just kind of are not paying attention to it and trying not to care.

1:01:59I don't put anything on it, right? So I can't imagine it's ever going to be an issue.

1:02:03Well, he says, there could be things, but the way that

1:02:07tvOS is built right now, like, I'm not going to be downloading catalogs of

1:02:11video and games, right? It's all built to not really do that.

1:02:15Well, video doesn't even get stored. It would be the app data.

1:02:19And, yeah, I haven't noticed anything there.

1:02:23Nope, not me. I don't spend a lot of time playing Apple TV games. I mean, mostly I'm using the Apple TV

1:02:27TV for purchased stuff iTunes purchase stuff and Plex that's mostly what I'm

1:02:36using it for right now I didn't know you a Plex user Mac you know I've got so

1:02:41yeah I mean it's Casey's fault but I can I actually have it on a on a server that

1:02:48is also running iTunes and those files are you know I can add them to iTunes

1:02:53and they show up there but the nice thing is if they're not in the night

1:02:56compatible format they still show up in

1:02:57Plex and it sort of saves a step if you

1:03:00have a file that you just drop on there

1:03:03you don't have to get in the right

1:03:04format and add it to iTunes Plex just

1:03:06sees it and updates its library so it's

1:03:09I'm sort of shifting to that just

1:03:12because I was doing a lot of effort to

1:03:13get things in iTunes format for watching

1:03:16on my TV on an Apple TV and now I don't

1:03:19have to because Apple TV runs the Plex

1:03:21app and that works. Okay next up we have Brian. Have you tried

1:03:28Cloud Magic email for Mac yet? If so, what do you think of it? I put this in because

1:03:33I've had a lot of people ask me. Cloud Magic is an iOS app that has recently made its debut

1:03:38on Mac. I haven't tried it. I actually have never tried Cloud Magic. And it sounds so

1:03:46I hate that brand name. I just don't like it. And their whole branding doesn't really

1:03:53excite me very much. So I've not tried Cloud Magic. And I know that it's like, don't judge

1:04:00a book by its cover type scenario, but the reason brands exist is because people do judge

1:04:04books by their cover. But more than anything, really, the reason that I haven't tried it

1:04:10out now is I'm really happy with Outlook on iOS and these days I am doing about 95% of

1:04:19my email on iOS.

1:04:20So I haven't felt the desire to make any change.

1:04:23I wasn't really that interested in Cloud Magic for iOS so I'm not going to switch over for

1:04:28Mac.

1:04:29I'm using Airmail on my Mac and that's doing a pretty good job of what I need it to do

1:04:34whenever I am at my Mac doing email, but the majority of the time I am using Outlook on

1:04:40iOS, on my iPhone and my iPad as my predominant email app.

1:04:48Same for me, I haven't tried it. The Mac version looks very much like a Gmail interface. Maybe

1:04:52I should try it only because I'm using Mailplane, which is a Mac wrapper around Gmail, and that's

1:04:58what I use on the Mac and then on iOS. I am also using Outlook right now, but you know,

1:05:03something that I every so often I will get in a phase where I will have a bunch

1:05:06of email clients and I will try them all out and and then use one for a while I'm

1:05:12in the cruise phase with outlook right now where that's what I'm using but at

1:05:17some point I will look around again and I'll check it out but right now I haven't

1:05:23it's not time. Nicholas would like to know what our favorite condiments are I

1:05:30I like ketchup a lot and if it would count maybe maple syrup depending on

1:05:37what I'm eating it's very rare except for bacon that I would use those

1:05:42condiments on the same thing I don't use them at the same time but bacon I have

1:05:46with ketchup and with maple syrup depending on what is surrounding the

1:05:50bacon I don't feel like maple maple syrup is a is a condom yeah that's why I

1:05:54wasn't sure about that one but baby you could you could argue it and we could

1:05:58start condiment or not. I don't want to do that. A limited series podcast. And I would

1:06:05actually agree with you. Ketchup is my favorite condiment, without a doubt. Ketchup makes

1:06:11almost everything better. It goes with so many things. I know you get a little tomato

1:06:16savory, you get some vinegar action going in there, a little sweet on top of it. It's

1:06:21great. Perfect. There are many great condiments, don't get me wrong. Yeah, all the great condiments.

1:06:25Ketchup is the king of condiments.

1:06:28And Richard would like to know, this is a meta question, and I quite like this, how

1:06:31many questions on average do you get for Ask Upgrade on a weekly basis?

1:06:37I would say that we get probably about 30 questions a week, maybe, I feel like that's

1:06:41a good number, maybe between like 20 and 30.

1:06:45But the participants vary quite a lot, it's not always the same people, which I do really

1:06:50like.

1:06:51always, you know, don't forget if you ever have questions and even follow up for the

1:06:55show, you just tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade and we get them. And as Jason pointed out

1:07:00in our document here, in the last two weeks we've been getting way more muffin-related

1:07:05things on the #AskUpgrade hashtag than usual questions.

1:07:08Yeah, I think we got fewer questions and comments than usual because everybody was really focused

1:07:15on Muffin Gate. And also, Nicholas, I see what you're doing here. You're trying to create

1:07:19a condiment vertical. And you may have succeeded, we'll have to see. But I see the game you're

1:07:24playing, "Oh yeah, you gotta think two moves ahead with these upgrade listeners." They're

1:07:28smart. They're smart.

1:07:30Devious upgradians.

1:07:31I know.

1:07:32Yesterday evening, I can't remember how this came up, but I think Adina said something about,

1:07:41"Oh, upgradians happen only once a year." And I was like, "No, no, darling. The upgradies

1:07:46happen once a year. Upgradients are our listeners. And it just made me realize just how complicated

1:07:51over time the naming conventions have become. But how dearly I love them.

1:07:57Yes. Yeah, we are the secret society of Upgrade. We should have like a seal, a secret seal

1:08:04for the secret society.

1:08:05Oh, you do say, huh?

1:08:08Mmm.

1:08:09Mmm.

1:08:10That's foreshadowing.

1:08:11Indeed.

1:08:12What if we did?

1:08:13[GASP]

1:08:14secret, you don't even know what it is. We do.

1:08:18Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade. If you want to find links

1:08:21for today's show, go to relay.fm/upgrade/72. I want to thank again Smile and Squarespace

1:08:29for sponsoring this week's show. If you want to find us online, you can head on over to

1:08:32sixcolors.com where you'll find Jason. Jason also hosts a couple of great podcasts on Relay

1:08:38I.F.M. as well as this one and they are Lift Off and Clockwise and of course you can find

1:08:44a cavalcade of shows over at TheIncomparable.com. If you want to find me online you can head

1:08:50on over to Twitter I am @imike and I am the host of many shows and the fine Relay FM that

1:08:56works at Relay.fm and you'll find a bunch of great shows there, all the great shows

1:09:00as some would say. I want to thank you all for listening as always and we'll be back

1:09:06next week with another episode of Upgrade. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

1:09:11[typing]

1:09:12Bye Myke!

1:09:13Is that you typing goodbye?

1:09:14[typing]

1:09:16[MUSIC PLAYING]

1:09:19[ Music ]

1:09:25[ Silence ]