0:00:02the incontrovertible numbers we January
0:00:082n474 welcome back everybody to be
0:00:13uncomfortable on your host Jason L we so
0:00:15bad man won the tournament that we ran
0:00:18here that was stupid and we wanted to
0:00:20have an amazing episode about that man
0:00:23and we we are doing one tonight we are
0:00:26we are embarking on a journey through
0:00:28films starting the Batman and we're
0:00:31starting with the the tim burton
0:00:34directed Batman films 1989 Batman and
0:00:381992 is batman returns to discuss these
0:00:43films with me i have a fine panel of
0:00:46people who watch the movies and that
0:00:47will talk about it because that's what
0:00:48the show is will begin by introducing
0:00:51them
0:00:51Shannon sudderth is here hi Shannon
0:00:53welcome back 11 keys
0:00:55David jail or wholly super your
0:00:57spectacular Batman and the no new auntie
0:01:02Ashley hello I'm multi-chip sudderth I'm
0:01:09sorry i I'm I didn't prepare I've
0:01:12watched the ben affleck daredevil and
0:01:14Tony sindelar hello nerds and for Batman
0:01:20is Mac Batman belongs to all of us we
0:01:22are all been no let's not get carried
0:01:24away
0:01:25it's not how DC Comics sees it i don't
0:01:27think that all right so here's the story
0:01:29with that man they did the the adam west
0:01:31batman in the sixties that was fun then
0:01:34the property cuddle just lay there for a
0:01:36while Superman they start making
0:01:39Superman films in the late seventies
0:01:41those are successful and they decided we
0:01:43should go back into batman again they
0:01:44took until nineteen eighty-nine when
0:01:47finally Batman hit the big screen again
0:01:50starring michael keaton as Bruce Wayne
0:01:52and Batman Jack Nicholson as the Joker
0:01:54directed by tim burton this was for
0:01:58those who did not live through it i can
0:01:59just say it was a big deal like this was
0:02:02my memory is that this was the first
0:02:05like market movie as marketing campaign
0:02:10that I remember like literally the
0:02:12Batman logo
0:02:14was omnipresent you could not everything
0:02:18had Batman logos on it your milk at a
0:02:20batman logo on it
0:02:21everything had Batman logos it was it
0:02:25was for those who didn't live through it
0:02:26it was a huge marketing push this was my
0:02:29want to say the end of my freshman year
0:02:31in college and yeah so it was a big deal
0:02:35and I think it was a man an extremely
0:02:37successful film as well with a different
0:02:40you know a different kind of take that
0:02:42was very influential that led to like
0:02:44the the a lot of the themes of it get
0:02:47kind of replayed in batman the animated
0:02:48series it's got an interesting kind of
0:02:51art deco-style uh so anyway let's start
0:02:55by discussing tim burton's batman is
0:02:58everybody here
0:02:59did you did you all see Batman when it
0:03:01came out or did you watch it later
0:03:04yeah I saw it when it came out but I was
0:03:08a really big comics nerd at the time so
0:03:10I also went through the pre-movie pre
0:03:14publicity
0:03:16oh my god this is going to suck they
0:03:18can't Michael Keane I remember that his
0:03:21chin isn't strong enough so that it's
0:03:24it's remarkable that this movie was this
0:03:27successful as it wasn't i think a lot of
0:03:29it had to do with the overdrive
0:03:31marketing that Warner's did to try to
0:03:33convince people that know it wasn't
0:03:34going to suck you know I I was the one
0:03:37in my my group in high school because
0:03:40this came out right at the tail end of
0:03:41my senior year of high school I was the
0:03:44one who when they announced the casting
0:03:46was like okay it's gonna be great and
0:03:48everyone else is like no no come on come
0:03:51on Michael Keaton these Betelgeuse is
0:03:53mr. mom and like they're just you watch
0:03:56and sure enough he is I mean he's still
0:03:58my favorite movie Batman I saw it
0:04:00opening night in a crowded theater that
0:04:03was completely full and it was playing
0:04:05into auditoriums in that multi plaque
0:04:07and I know that because there was
0:04:09something wrong with their print and we
0:04:10had to sit there in that crowded theater
0:04:12for 30 minutes past the show time until
0:04:15it finally started and I still loved
0:04:18every second of it
0:04:19my friends and I spent months doing jack
0:04:21nicholson's little card thing remove the
0:04:23card around the deck everything in the
0:04:26movie was cool too
0:04:27and it's it's one of the few that ever
0:04:28so twice in the theater in the same
0:04:30weekend my college roommates and I we
0:04:33were not cool people we memorized the
0:04:37lyrics to bat dance that's how could
0:04:39that mean to you do we wait for this
0:04:42movie and I married him anyway Tony ya
0:04:45too young to be an honorary or just old
0:04:47enough to see a bad man i was definitely
0:04:49too young for part perhaps for both of
0:04:52these movies but definitely for this one
0:04:53I think i was aware as a spamming I was
0:04:57a child I i was aware of the like the
0:05:00marketing push of it but I i think the
0:05:03first time I saw it was you know on a
0:05:05VHS tape it's good you're drinking your
0:05:07milk it's good and yeah because I think
0:05:09you're bad milk
0:05:10yeah and speaking of bad milk i should
0:05:12say the Batman cereal that came out
0:05:14needing nine was really good
0:05:17Batman Returns cereal not as good funny
0:05:20men but we'll get there we'll get there
0:05:22tim burton personally make both of those
0:05:24so all right let's talk about Batman
0:05:27then we'll look we'll talk about 1989's
0:05:30Batman now I mentioned I the style here
0:05:33is it's fun it is this weird art deco
0:05:37kind of style we we've seen this in a
0:05:39few movies up
0:05:40it's definitely I you know the i always
0:05:44think of Max Headroom is being a little
0:05:45bit like that although that's a little
0:05:47more techy of course the great Super
0:05:48Mario Brothers it's anyway but it but it
0:05:52is a it's kind of a fun mix of things
0:05:55that look old along with some things
0:05:56that look uh look modern and his first
0:05:59was the designer I think won the Oscar
0:06:01for art direction it would visit it
0:06:03looks really beautiful and from the very
0:06:06very start where we see the this stuff
0:06:08we see a family with it with a parents
0:06:11in and the young kid and it's very
0:06:13clearly playing on the origin of Batman
0:06:17it's kind of a fake-out and it's a fake
0:06:19ad because it's not it's actually the
0:06:20present and they're saved by Batman but
0:06:22but they they can't get a cab so they
0:06:24decided to cut through a dark dark le
0:06:29dangerous Ally because they're dumb
0:06:31yeah and that meant save them when i
0:06:34first saw this movie I it was a crowded
0:06:37house there were loads of people there
0:06:39who were not come
0:06:40book fans they were there because of the
0:06:42marketing and all the stuff that opening
0:06:44scene when you see the but i think one
0:06:48of the descriptions of Gotham City is as
0:06:50long as the hell burst from the ground
0:06:52and kept on going
0:06:53when you see that opening claustrophobic
0:06:55shot shot there were people in the
0:06:58audience who were clearly not regular
0:06:59Batman fans who just audibly gasps oh my
0:07:02god this is horrific
0:07:04you know right the right then and there
0:07:06that art direction is just coming at you
0:07:09and it's not
0:07:10Dayglow sixties pop art that's for sure
0:07:13who are you I'm Batman
0:07:15here it is oh we we did that ad
0:07:19infinitum on its are everywhere else i'm
0:07:22back mad by then you're saying you
0:07:24stopped
0:07:25well no I don't think it's just slow
0:07:27down some some people went and got day
0:07:29jobs and didn't do it anymore but now i
0:07:32remember going up to a drive-through I
0:07:35don't want to say it was a McDonald's
0:07:37but it could have been a taco bell and
0:07:39and what is it can I help you have
0:07:40everyone in the car when I'm Batman
0:07:43yeah he threatens the one guy a lot but
0:07:49he but he says no no I'll send out you
0:07:51can send a message my notes here are all
0:07:53about how this I think is very
0:07:55definitely trying to reflect the new
0:07:59york city of this period this is a
0:08:01crumbling sleazy metropolis except often
0:08:05city it's not metropolis to Gotham City
0:08:08but it is it is very much that eighties
0:08:11sleazy garbagey New York that we're
0:08:14seeing in in Gotham it's gross
0:08:17the hipsters have not come yet know it's
0:08:20gross but it's also got art deco and
0:08:23gargoyles everywhere
0:08:25hmm sure it's a cooler city that's gone
0:08:28to credit and tommy guns the police
0:08:30carry tommy guns i love how I i love how
0:08:34just an anachronistic the whole thing is
0:08:36and they're all in like weird leather
0:08:37jackets that you know are you know the
0:08:41me I i think the word that comes to mind
0:08:43is it is discount finish where um yeah
0:08:46yeah but that's just that's it that's
0:08:48how they do things in Gotham yeah Tony
0:08:50when you can't afford a leather catsuit
0:08:51you know what you do you just cut up
0:08:53some final and so it but
0:08:54that's another yeah anyway I learned a
0:08:56lot in these movies
0:08:58hey so uh so we see Billy Dee Williams
0:09:02appears as Harvey Dent although he
0:09:05doesn't have very much to do in this
0:09:06movie he's just kind of present Jack
0:09:08Nicholson and a Jerry Hall i have a have
0:09:13a scene together jacket jacket is the
0:09:16henchman for the organized crime leader
0:09:19and Jerry Hall is his is his girl but
0:09:22they are stepping out on the side here
0:09:24and we get some lines including decent
0:09:28people shouldn't live here which is good
0:09:30this is Gotham City welcome to it and
0:09:33and what delightful casting is Jack
0:09:35palace you can be Jack Nicholson's boss
0:09:39yeah you just somebody bigger than Jack
0:09:41Nicholson Jack Nicholson is going to be
0:09:43playing this pretty big kind of big
0:09:46remember Jack never got my number one
0:09:49guy
0:09:51it's yeah Jack Palance is great as a
0:09:53Carl Grissom Chris some gruesome right
0:09:56and there's another there's dirty
0:09:58lieutenant Hart who we meet who is one
0:10:02of my least favorite things about this
0:10:03movie because he's just kind of a fat
0:10:05slob who is like dubbed in i think yeah
0:10:09I would I couldn't tell if what was
0:10:11going I wasn't sure if somebody if he
0:10:12was eight ER in his own lines or
0:10:14somebody else was covering them but yeah
0:10:15like noticeably doesn't match up the way
0:10:18he's dubbed to is strange
0:10:20he's dubbed as if he's communicating but
0:10:22the the voice is so soft and gravely
0:10:25that there's no way that any any noise
0:10:28at that volume could have been
0:10:29understandable by any of the other
0:10:30characters in the scene and I just don't
0:10:32I I never liked the character and I
0:10:35never liked the way he talked but it was
0:10:37only watching it back this time that I
0:10:39realized he's just completely dubbed in
0:10:41and I don't even know why and its kind
0:10:43of slightly gravely and anyway he's a
0:10:45crooked cop and and he's gross and his
0:10:49voice is super strange and and it's
0:10:52Porkins yeah yeah
0:10:55Porkins it's so bizarre to me well the
0:10:57butt with a weird dubbed again it might
0:10:59be him it might be somebody else mr. is
0:11:01it's very strange required a monthly I
0:11:04don't get that shit together
0:11:06someone else took up all the oxygen in
0:11:08the room before he got any life
0:11:10interesting
0:11:11we meet a couple other characters early
0:11:13on here too we we meet knocks the the
0:11:17reporter played by room TVs Robert wool
0:11:21oh I love knocks because Robert was
0:11:23playing him like he's the star of the
0:11:25movie yet haven't no no one told you see
0:11:28he's almost in a different movie
0:11:30he's like a wacky wacky journalism movie
0:11:33that is not the movies and it's it is
0:11:35very french maid and halfway through the
0:11:37movie he just drops out like he's off
0:11:39following scoops or something but it's
0:11:42like the movie said oh wait
0:11:44we've got Batman sorry Robert no he's
0:11:46like kind of any movie come with you I'm
0:11:48gonna do some stuff in the movies like
0:11:49no I remember him doing the late-night
0:11:52chat show circuit around this time and
0:11:54he was actually he was acting like it
0:11:56was his movie there too
0:11:58yeah this is terrible i remember on the
0:12:00comedy channel that he would do one of
0:12:02the going to commercial bumpers and it
0:12:05was mostly him complaining that he got a
0:12:09great contract that said he got a cut of
0:12:10the toy rights but then he discovered
0:12:14you only got a cut of his toy right and
0:12:17you were not a lot of plucky reporter
0:12:19toys being sold
0:12:21hey I had I had the plucky reporters
0:12:23journalist notebook and pen and and the
0:12:26snap brim hat you gotta you gotta give a
0:12:29couple dollars to Robert well that's
0:12:30okay he's got are less money now it's
0:12:32fine and we and we also meet kim
0:12:35basinger as Vicki Vale who is introduced
0:12:38so you know they're trying to do the on
0:12:42some kind of a battery thing between
0:12:44Robert wall and kim basinger her and I
0:12:48can't decide whether it's gross or
0:12:50whether it's amusing because he's so bad
0:12:53at it
0:12:54I tend to plump for the ladder yeah that
0:12:56that he's he's that bad at it she's
0:12:58humoring him because she needed help
0:13:01yeah I think he's the only one who's got
0:13:03the banter going on she's just humoring
0:13:05yeah but she's like it all gets summed
0:13:08up later on when at one point you know
0:13:10he's like expressing concern or
0:13:12something and she puts both her hands on
0:13:13his face and give them a quick little
0:13:15kiss your you're cute yorkie pups
0:13:17through it you can tell she's a serious
0:13:19reporter because she wears glasses
0:13:20sometimes huh right you can you can
0:13:23definitely tell that but they are again
0:13:25it is it is kind of a fun fun tone but
0:13:27it's a little bit weird because it's it
0:13:28is like from another movie about plucky
0:13:31reporters but it's really just to get us
0:13:32into this other story that were that
0:13:34were going to get with with Batman which
0:13:37is fine i I actually made a note at this
0:13:39point to that at points rubber walls
0:13:41performance reminds me a little bit of
0:13:42like Bill Murray in ghostbusters it's
0:13:44that kind of eccentric and bizarre and
0:13:47there's the whole thing where where
0:13:49they're in Bruce Wayne's uh that mansion
0:13:52and they're like wander into the Hall of
0:13:54weapons like the museum room must be a
0:13:56hang of the wicker people and things
0:13:58like that where it's just the strange
0:14:00you know but look at this look at that
0:14:01mirror he must be Bruce vain
0:14:03I'm like again and again and again it's
0:14:06just nice girl and i genuinely enjoy him
0:14:08he's not putting a lot of energy out in
0:14:10a role that he has to know isn't that
0:14:13important
0:14:14good for him i think he thinks it's that
0:14:17important i'm sorry and godbless
0:14:20important lesson yes I enjoy and I'm
0:14:23surprised how much of his dialogue I I i
0:14:25know i like know by heart the right wall
0:14:28dialogue is wacky and it gets you into
0:14:30the movie and yeah and then he is
0:14:32discarded but he's kind of fun while you
0:14:36sit around he serves His function and
0:14:38goes on
0:14:39yeah he doesn't die no he doesn't so we
0:14:42get to kiss on the check instead on this
0:14:43way in fact that the oh yeah that's
0:14:46that's a happy ending in Gotham
0:14:47well it's not a pure it's not a pure
0:14:50origin movie it's sort of the first
0:14:52appearance of Batman but we don't get
0:14:53the we don't get the let's go to Nanda
0:14:56Parbat and have training site once this
0:14:58kind of stuff so in the beginning that
0:15:00man's a mystery and Knox's the character
0:15:03that is sort of investigating the
0:15:05mystery and that that's our gateway in
0:15:07and then that this everything shifts
0:15:10over to Michael Keaton and there's
0:15:12nothing for him to do and right good
0:15:15riddance
0:15:15good riddance also we get what you get
0:15:17in in there in around this part i'm not
0:15:19going to go point by point here but this
0:15:20is where we get to see Michael Keaton we
0:15:22get to see Michael koffice as Alfred as
0:15:25well in some of these scenes in here
0:15:26Michael Keaton so we talked about it I i
0:15:29think i think this movie does a good job
0:15:31of of getting a
0:15:33introduced to Bruce Wayne and and I i
0:15:36think yeah you spend a few minutes with
0:15:39Michael Keaton is Bruce Wayne and I feel
0:15:41like i buy into it is like oh IC IC why
0:15:44Michael Keaton's in this movie because I
0:15:46think he does i think he does a good job
0:15:47my favorite Bruce Wayne of any movie
0:15:50yes i like i like his version of like
0:15:53weirdo eccentric I Bruce Wayne because
0:15:57there's so many versions of Bruce Wayne
0:15:58as the like the polished millionaire
0:16:01playboy who is smooth talking and this I
0:16:03like this guy who's just like no he's
0:16:04awkward and weird and spend a lot of
0:16:06time sitting by himself being brought
0:16:09sandwiches by offered and doesn't really
0:16:10know how to talk to people also he's
0:16:13apparently not a celebrity and Gotham
0:16:14not everybody knows what he looks like
0:16:16and he's just this weird guy who throws
0:16:19kind of benefit party things at his
0:16:21house i like i like awkward Bruce Wayne
0:16:23I details to enjoy himself at the party
0:16:26like when he sneaks behind the the two
0:16:29reporters and they're going to his
0:16:30Museum he's watching them and he's
0:16:32genuinely amused i feel like this is the
0:16:34only Bruce Wayne from the movies i would
0:16:36actually watch a movie about right yeah
0:16:39right well in in in retrospect he's you
0:16:42know I don't know how intentional was
0:16:44but it's it's almost like he's playing
0:16:46Bruce Wayne somewhere on the spectrum
0:16:48right he's clearly a genius is of course
0:16:51the world's greatest detective and of
0:16:53course this is a movie where we get to
0:16:55see that for once we get to know Bruce
0:16:57Wayne instead of just Batman or just as
0:16:59a cover for Batman and and i love that
0:17:02and you know you get the impression that
0:17:03he could fake being cool and suave if he
0:17:07had to but this is a little bit more
0:17:10like himself at least in this part of
0:17:12the movie I was a mild comic book geek
0:17:15going high school college and if for
0:17:17this movie
0:17:18the reason that I went was because they
0:17:21cast Michael Keaton an accident that I
0:17:23really really loved and was really
0:17:25invested in and I was looking at the
0:17:27blowback of you know it can't be and I'm
0:17:29like yes it can you know yes it can
0:17:31trust me
0:17:33anybody can be hiding under that suit
0:17:35but you've got to have somebody with his
0:17:37kind of charm and wackiness and
0:17:40instability
0:17:42I mean that that you're dealing with a
0:17:43young man who
0:17:44you know who lost his parents were
0:17:48killed in front of his eyes at a very
0:17:49young age and his reaction to that is to
0:17:53go and trained himself to the utmost to
0:17:56to do something about it and not just do
0:17:59something about it but I'm gonna dress
0:18:01up like a bat and scare these criminals
0:18:02are you need a Michael Keaton to pull
0:18:06that character off
0:18:07yeah and I think that's not normal know
0:18:09exactly but that's not normal and and it
0:18:13to the extent that you know a couple
0:18:16movies later
0:18:17did you brought they brought in this val
0:18:19kilmer guide to be Bruce Wayne and he's
0:18:22a conventional hero compared to Michael
0:18:24Keaton who is just nuts
0:18:27he is let not want to know you want to
0:18:30get nuts he's got that Betelgeuse scene
0:18:32where you see all that manic energy
0:18:34right I I feel like eating gets lost
0:18:37inside the Batsuit but that's not when
0:18:40you need the actor to do the best job
0:18:43you need him to do the best job as a
0:18:46ruse Wayne and Keaton is mesmerizing
0:18:48that Batman in the Batsuit could almost
0:18:50be played by a stockman yeah right
0:18:52huh it's the mr. Bruce Wayne you've got
0:18:54a lot of really fine i acting from
0:18:58Keaton when he's in the suit and
0:19:00occasionally his yet some of his ideas
0:19:01expressions come thru yes it's a quirk
0:19:04of the mouth it says so much
0:19:06yeah you know yeah in fact there is a
0:19:08recent Batman movie that also involves
0:19:10Superman huh
0:19:12what would they call that movie i think
0:19:13it's called Batman comma and also
0:19:15Superman and to briefly reference that
0:19:19movie i really liked Batman whenever it
0:19:22was just Ben Affleck not a student
0:19:24already got interested i can see there's
0:19:27a CGI monster or something but there was
0:19:30cool acting as Bruce Wayne and that's
0:19:32the closest we're going to get to a bed
0:19:33member Superman episode right there
0:19:35there was an episode 493 contractual
0:19:41obligation fulfilled the the teasers
0:19:43they've put out for the Justice League
0:19:45movie I really well-known like now in
0:19:48and the layout no no no no nope nope
0:19:51nope
0:19:52this episode of the incomparable is
0:19:55brought to you by blue apron i'm really
0:19:58excited to have them as a sponsor I've
0:19:59been a blue apron customer for more than
0:20:02a year and it's really been great for
0:20:04our family
0:20:05blue apron brings food to your table you
0:20:07get a box every week and it's got great
0:20:09stuff inside the sea food is sourced
0:20:12sustainably understand its developed in
0:20:13partnership with the Monterey Bay
0:20:14Aquarium Seafood Watch the beef is
0:20:16raised you mainly the chickens are
0:20:18free-range the pork is raised naturally
0:20:20can be delivered to ninety-nine percent
0:20:22of the continental US and blue apron
0:20:25ships the exact amount of each
0:20:26ingredient required for a recipe so they
0:20:28are reducing food waste we have just
0:20:30enough to enjoy the meal and that's
0:20:32about it and cooking together can be
0:20:34great for kids families this summer
0:20:35my wife made a point of cooking with our
0:20:38kids with the blue aprons meals that got
0:20:40clear recipes and instructions that you
0:20:43can follow and that was a whole lot of
0:20:44fun research shows that blue apron
0:20:46families cook nearly three times more
0:20:47often some of the meals available in
0:20:49january from blue apron just to give you
0:20:52an idea of the kind of stuff that you
0:20:53can get in this box seared pork chops
0:20:55with Pharaoh and cranberry chutney
0:20:57spaghetti squash and marinara with
0:20:59mushrooms and garlic knots spicy shrimp
0:21:01and korean rice cakes with cabbage and
0:21:03for a cocky we have a huge folder full
0:21:07of blue apron recipes that we want to
0:21:09make again on a regular basis because we
0:21:11love them so much when they came from
0:21:13blue apron
0:21:14it's really great check out this week's
0:21:16menu and get your first 3 meals free
0:21:18with free shipping what a deal by going
0:21:21to blue apron dot-com / smell you'll
0:21:24love how good it feels and tastes to
0:21:26create incredible home-cooked meals with
0:21:27blue apron so don't wait
0:21:29blue apron dot-com / smell blue apron a
0:21:33better way to cook so I want to give
0:21:35some praise here is where I mean it was
0:21:36great my Michael golf is great i do love
0:21:39I mean tony mentioned like Alfred brings
0:21:42him sandwiches but it's like it is this
0:21:45this is a great moment where you know
0:21:47it's like you know it's just us here in
0:21:50this old mansion and he he encourages
0:21:52Bruce and and Vicki to get together at
0:21:56several points brings her to him in the
0:21:58Batcave at the end of the movie and it's
0:22:01just he's just so so delightful the
0:22:04whole time I I
0:22:05think i think has there been great
0:22:08Alfred's in movies but i really love
0:22:10Michael gasps performances as Alfred
0:22:12he's just just delightful and helpful
0:22:15and friendly and loving and you know and
0:22:17and fatherly yeah exactly right i mean
0:22:20we're jumping kinda head I i love the
0:22:22scene where vicki and Bruce have their
0:22:25kind of their date and then Alfred kind
0:22:27of the day it starts with the this yet
0:22:29whether the judge with joke Adams jokes
0:22:31shot rather the long ends of the table
0:22:33into classic and then they go from that
0:22:35to like hanging out in the kitchen with
0:22:37Alfred so nice i like that a lot
0:22:40that's that's because that's Bruce Wayne
0:22:42getting over himself for getting over
0:22:43his I think it's getting over his view
0:22:46of himself and like he should be and
0:22:49then just being like they I like how you
0:22:51actually see him like pick up his plate
0:22:53and his wine glass and be like come on
0:22:54let's go and then cut to their in this
0:22:57much warmer kind of wood table little
0:23:00light light wood and then like a kitchen
0:23:02or something with Alfred it's great and
0:23:04just before that that great line when
0:23:07Vicki says that you know I don't think
0:23:09this mansion is very much it is this
0:23:12like you at all and bruce says some of
0:23:16it is very much me know it's it's it's
0:23:19very there some there since this is not
0:23:23going to be considered a subtle movie by
0:23:25a long shot right there are but there
0:23:28are subtleties in Michael Keaton's
0:23:30performance
0:23:31yeah i agree i agree there's a lot of
0:23:33little nice stuff a lot of less stuff
0:23:35with Michael Keaton and Michael Michael
0:23:36cough the okay so yeah we should talk
0:23:40about Jack Nicholson as jack napier and
0:23:43he becomes he becomes the Joker unsubtle
0:23:46half of the no it'sit's not i meannot a
0:23:48carton eckhardt who I didn't like gets
0:23:51shot by jack in a scene at the access
0:23:53chemical plant which i also just to say
0:23:56again that i don't like that character
0:23:58before he gets shot he's like acting
0:24:00like a zombie he's just kind of moving
0:24:01very slowly and kind of going in and
0:24:04it's I don't understand that carry I
0:24:05don't even know why that character is
0:24:06there it's really bad but but the Joker
0:24:09so jack napier who is revealed late in
0:24:12the movie in a coincidence that's
0:24:14probably unnecessary is the person who
0:24:16shot
0:24:16Bruce Wayne's parents yeah
0:24:19f words about that later yeah well we'll
0:24:21get it will circle around that but here
0:24:23he he you know there's a shootout he
0:24:26gets hit by a ricochet Batman tries to
0:24:29capture catch him but he drops into the
0:24:32chemicals and is is dead and will never
0:24:35see him again except of course he
0:24:36resurfaces with the the white face and
0:24:41is the is the Joker so they got my
0:24:44understanding is that they backed up a
0:24:46truck money to Jack Nicholson's house
0:24:48and they said you can be in our movie
0:24:50will pay you a lot of money you can go
0:24:53to all the laker games will make sure
0:24:54that we schedule around you and we limit
0:24:56the amount of time you have to spend on
0:24:57this movie but you know it was quite a
0:25:00coup to get the guy who was basically
0:25:02considered the best or one of the what
0:25:05two or three best actors on the planet
0:25:08to be in their little superhero movie we
0:25:11got a golden globe nomination he even
0:25:12got Top Billing yeah mmm yeah absolutely
0:25:15and that Joker's a plum role right i
0:25:17mean this is this is this isn't this
0:25:20isn't a role that won an Oscar for
0:25:22somebody else to write it is a quite a
0:25:24role to bite to chew off to bite on
0:25:27jewel I don't know to shoot there's a
0:25:29lot of chewing scenery going on really
0:25:30is what's happening again
0:25:31it's quite a roll yeah when Jack
0:25:33Nicholson puts his all into it and then
0:25:35some
0:25:35and this early in the movie he's also
0:25:38really really good as jack napier yeah
0:25:41and that's that the-the-the minutes the
0:25:46unhinged miss that's just sort of in the
0:25:49background waiting to be released after
0:25:51he takes a bath you know he he's a
0:25:54plausible gangster villain and then then
0:25:59he just he just cuts loose he gets
0:26:01behind the makeup and he just what's
0:26:04that what's that phrase you use a lot
0:26:06Jason turns into the skin just admits to
0:26:08it you know you just gotta go with it
0:26:10right
0:26:11yes he's a jack napier zile operated on
0:26:14by a German doctor who has a very bad
0:26:17set of tools it looks more like
0:26:19something you get info and you can get
0:26:21into Medical why they really did a heck
0:26:23of a job and I think those tools for
0:26:25what you used to like punch holes of
0:26:26letting up but that was that was what
0:26:30tim burton was stocking up for Edward
0:26:32Scissorhands so it's bad but that's bad
0:26:33news for Jack Palance he's not gonna
0:26:35make it because uh because jack napier
0:26:38has come back from the dead he knows
0:26:39that he he was sent to the axis chemical
0:26:41plant as a setup because he was stepping
0:26:45out with with his girl
0:26:47jerry hall so sugar bumps sugar bumps
0:26:51just putting it out there and so yeah so
0:26:53he kills a he kills Jack Palance I had
0:26:56to jagannatha told me to kill jack
0:26:58palance and says wait till they get a
0:27:01load of me but interesting decision by
0:27:04Jack Nicholson an interesting decision
0:27:05by tim burton to leave it in at and I
0:27:08I'd say this is a representative of how
0:27:10far they let Nicholson go with this
0:27:14he doesn't just say wait till they get a
0:27:15load of me he then goes whoo whoop em
0:27:21haha and they just leave it all in just
0:27:24letting you know for sure I'm insane but
0:27:27it's not even that he's saying wait till
0:27:29they get a load of me its weight only
0:27:31get a load of me he follows it up with a
0:27:35sound and then another weird sound a
0:27:38maniacal laugh and tim burton's like
0:27:39yeah we're just gonna keep all that in
0:27:41just let a roll there's a dance he does
0:27:43when he leaves one of the seems that
0:27:45it's just like it blows my mind that
0:27:47that's that's this that's in there is a
0:27:49few times where Nicholson is just
0:27:51goofing around at the end of the team
0:27:52they leave it in there is the time he
0:27:53tells his really loyal henchmen in a
0:27:56black Palace imitation you my number one
0:28:00guy he and then the guy leaves and
0:28:03nickel just standing there going
0:28:04do-do-do-do-do-do VD just move it off
0:28:10but the Joker could just be goofing off
0:28:12let's leave it in its great he is not
0:28:15concerned about what like there's a lot
0:28:17where he's just a room by himself but
0:28:19it's like no peace still going he does
0:28:21not need an audience but when he has an
0:28:23audio yeah it goes up to love even
0:28:24bigger
0:28:25yeah like it when they hit the museum
0:28:28okay here's what we're doing guys
0:28:30oh yeah let's see what else in there
0:28:33Bruce Bruce lies to vicki vale after
0:28:37they've spent the night together
0:28:38I says he's got to go out of town but
0:28:40Alfred
0:28:41basically gives gives that away awkward
0:28:45like yeah yeah that was that was well
0:28:49you you're supposed to let your Butler
0:28:50know that you've gotta yeah you
0:28:53should've gone with it though i suppose
0:28:54i'm thinking that this alfred was not a
0:28:56former spy i think it offered in this is
0:28:58not used to Bruce Wayne as a woman i was
0:29:02a playboy right so much so he doesn't
0:29:04have the moves down it like oh yes we
0:29:06are going out of town
0:29:07ya soon as Bruce has a girlfriend
0:29:09girlfriend gets brought down to the bad
0:29:12hey so alpha tango what so that you've
0:29:15got a girl now
0:29:16yeah but there's no they don't have any
0:29:19pop formal policies written up it's a
0:29:21problem I owe the Joker has a meeting of
0:29:24all the crime lords in ya Gotham City
0:29:26they have a little meeting little table
0:29:27gang of gangs yeah I love his vanity
0:29:30that he's got the flesh-colored makeup
0:29:33plastered on top of his chalk white skin
0:29:35and this one and hit that looks even
0:29:37more creepy that's one of my favorite
0:29:39things is that his skin is naturally
0:29:41white with the smile but sometimes he
0:29:43puts makeup on to have it look normal
0:29:45and then later on the movie tells Batman
0:29:48i have taken off my makeup
0:29:50let's see if you can take off yours
0:29:51except he hasn't taken off his makeup
0:29:53he's put more makeup on right yeah well
0:29:57it's it's not it's not that it's vanity
0:29:59it's he's he he knows nobody knows what
0:30:02he looks like yet anybody also wants to
0:30:05freak them out as the makeup starts to
0:30:07crack and peel away the smile looks
0:30:10pretty freaked out about to me
0:30:13yeah weird prosthetic it is weird he
0:30:16killed he kills a guy with the joy
0:30:17buzzer
0:30:18you mentioned the you're my number one
0:30:22guy and all that Bob I enjoy Bob
0:30:24throughout this movie is not right now
0:30:26he is a little bit Larry Darrell and
0:30:28Darrell but he's quite enjoyable as just
0:30:31loyal sidekick guy who keeps saying
0:30:33things his lines are all like yes sir
0:30:36that's it that's all Bob does i have
0:30:38watched him for years I saw him on WKRP
0:30:42in the first season and when
0:30:44wow that's a really weird guy huh and
0:30:47then he was also in a show called best
0:30:49of the west from the makers of taxi
0:30:51which was a Western thing and he played
0:30:53a henchman named fraud
0:30:55and that was delightful it's tracy
0:30:58Walter is the name of the actor enjoyed
0:31:00when the Joker's gang shows up to the
0:31:01point guns at all the boss leaders that
0:31:04they already have embroidered jackets
0:31:06with like patches of the Joker's face
0:31:08it's like that's how you know they're
0:31:10good management group is that they've
0:31:11already like day one we've got invited
0:31:13jackets ready to go like the movies of
0:31:16marketing behavior yeah yeah that's
0:31:18Joker's got all sorts of stuff will see
0:31:21even more stuff the Joker's got ready to
0:31:23go ready to deploy he's he's crafted
0:31:25people in both senses of the word
0:31:27oh he's just my type yeah so let's see
0:31:30what else I mean jack napier then
0:31:32attacks various gangsters Bruce Wayne is
0:31:34is stunned and shocked by this Batman
0:31:38gets all the headlines even though
0:31:41Napier's attacked all the gangsters he's
0:31:43very upset that we get this town needs
0:31:45an enema that line happens here in this
0:31:48in this area again jack nicholson what
0:31:50can you say just yeah he's clearing the
0:31:54trailer
0:31:55yeah well here is the trailer right be
0:31:58he's a whole both of these movies have a
0:32:00lot of press conferences in them like a
0:32:02lot of press conferences in them a lot
0:32:04of on the steps of City Hall the one
0:32:06that I find the weirdest is that there
0:32:08is the Mafia press conference that the
0:32:10Joker and his mind to people that that
0:32:14one that one confused me a little bit
0:32:15but again i did not live in Gotham in
0:32:181980 night I maybe that's just business
0:32:20as usual but like yeah if I'm if I'm
0:32:22running the organized crime i would hold
0:32:24less press conferences what I'm saying
0:32:26maybe none maybe none maybe I mean look
0:32:29just throwing that out there huh that's
0:32:31the one where nobody notices the
0:32:32extremely amateurish minds around the
0:32:34place right
0:32:35yep yep yep you know again I guys you
0:32:40guys are older than me i'm just i'm
0:32:42assuming a lot about what 1998-1999 was
0:32:44like there weren't that many minds all
0:32:47the way there are mines and how many
0:32:48what was the mind to press conference
0:32:50ratio is what i mask it well let me tell
0:32:52you about a couple named shields and
0:32:54Yarnell era para primes and they were
0:32:59huge they had their own show
0:33:01they did have yeah the seventies yes
0:33:03they did a god I'm suddenly feeling
0:33:05younger is anybody there
0:33:06there's a point at which vicki vale
0:33:08suddenly is way more interested in using
0:33:11her newspapers resources to look up
0:33:12information about her boyfriend then to
0:33:15investigate Batman is she supposed to be
0:33:17doing she seems to have a lot of free
0:33:18range from her previous highly
0:33:21successful photojournalism run in that
0:33:23island that she just came back from we
0:33:25haven't actually talked a whole lot
0:33:26about Vicki Vale and I think there's a
0:33:29reason for the hands
0:33:30I have to know you think which are an
0:33:34amazing apartment
0:33:35yes and in one scene she has a Padawan
0:33:37braid yeah okay just one little braids
0:33:40on the side of her head going down over
0:33:42her shoulder she might be a jet by now i
0:33:44remember being rather irritated at one
0:33:47point watching the movie at some point
0:33:49it may not have been the first time but
0:33:50at a subsequent watching because when
0:33:53they introduce her she's you know shown
0:33:57to be very capable award-winning
0:33:59globe-trotting photojournalist looking
0:34:01for the the heavy hard stories
0:34:04yeah um and so it's yet Robert walls
0:34:07character you know somewhat
0:34:08understandably you're going to chase
0:34:10Batman it doesn't quite seem to fit
0:34:13um and then about halfway through the
0:34:17movie or so all of a sudden there's
0:34:19apparently nothing left for kim basinger
0:34:21to do then scream or dangle from a Ledge
0:34:25or cord or something or faint and it's
0:34:27like you're not
0:34:29she was doing well she could have
0:34:30contributed the amount of her dialogue
0:34:33that is her screaming in reaction to
0:34:34something is like a lot began well okay
0:34:37so I like the scene where she's on the
0:34:40rooftop and she immediately starts
0:34:42taking pictures of Batman fighting in
0:34:43the alley right that's good news sense
0:34:45like that that's the scene where I'm
0:34:47like okay she's doing her job and of
0:34:48course right then uses the Old Cape
0:34:50trick to steal the film out of her bra
0:34:53but I be on Cape trick you okay yeah
0:34:57that does that a lot he's like who
0:34:59there's a cape and what happens then
0:35:01nobody knows it's under the Cape was a
0:35:03mystery that's how Batman does it all
0:35:05sorts of magic tricks
0:35:07anyway so that's good but then you're
0:35:09right a other than that she's mostly a
0:35:13damsel i do think that when she when
0:35:15Alfred brings her into the Batcave
0:35:17toward the end but that's a nice
0:35:20where she's being like supportive I i
0:35:22find her her support for Bruce nice but
0:35:25again that's being supportive and not
0:35:26you know but at but at the same time
0:35:29she's kind of like breaking down his
0:35:31shell so there are moments in there
0:35:33whenever she's put in any sort of like
0:35:34part of the plot like the wind with the
0:35:37Joker the art museum is the most
0:35:39disappointing one because although she
0:35:40she gives a push back to him a little
0:35:43bit you know like when when she goes to
0:35:45comfort him with because he got covered
0:35:47in water and he's melting like it's just
0:35:50dumb like why would you do that in jan
0:35:52there's also lots of lots of the
0:35:53screaming lots again we're almost at the
0:35:56Museum attack actually but I i wanted to
0:36:00mention a couple other things I enjoy
0:36:02the new TV news as we see it in this
0:36:07movie not the first off the outfit on
0:36:10the the first anchor woman who dies is
0:36:13staggering
0:36:15it looks like it's like a jacket with
0:36:18shoulder pads but it looks literally
0:36:20looks like she's wearing a parka it is
0:36:22so huge and padded it is amazing
0:36:24she's not the only one can be a singer
0:36:26and Robert wool yeah there's a lot of
0:36:29shoulder pad action in this room well
0:36:30it's against wasn't talking head suit
0:36:32like he's nowhere near the outside is
0:36:34what it is but that one first
0:36:38anchorwoman is the most extreme of all
0:36:40of them but i really loved the joke
0:36:42where they discovered that the cosmetics
0:36:44are poisoned and they don't know exactly
0:36:45where the poison is and then for the
0:36:48rest of the the movie the TV anchors
0:36:50have no makeup on and they've been made
0:36:52to have blemishes and things all over
0:36:54their faces that kills me after your
0:36:56hair their hair looks awful
0:36:58so it doesn't need to be there because
0:37:00they don't even have combs anymore it's
0:37:02just a joke
0:37:02yeah and it's mainly mainly affects TV
0:37:05anchors Vicki Vale is doing fine
0:37:06Tom you know she's not what she imports
0:37:08all of her husband watches ok thank you
0:37:10and can accepted and so we're off to the
0:37:13museum so uh Vicki give Alfred get a
0:37:16call saying she'll be 10 minutes late to
0:37:18the museum but to meet Bruce but that is
0:37:20a he's not meeting her there so that's a
0:37:22bad sign i think that this looks like a
0:37:24job for Batman and what happens is the
0:37:27gas the Joker the Joker attacks they
0:37:31gasp the museum
0:37:33and then immediately the Joker and
0:37:34enhancement after everybody drops
0:37:36Vicki's got a little mask that she's
0:37:38been given by a in a little package and
0:37:41told put this on immediately everybody
0:37:43drops because of the gas and then the
0:37:44Joker and his people walk in which is
0:37:46interesting because you think there
0:37:47would still be gas but they have no
0:37:49masks
0:37:49it's fine it's fine it's time for a
0:37:52dance party and finally Prince shows up
0:37:55is this good time to talk about princes
0:37:56concrete yeah this is the time because
0:37:59they play they play a song arm on the
0:38:02boom box as they go through and deface
0:38:05all the art or Sorry Sorry improve the
0:38:08art as Joker would tell us and we play a
0:38:11prince song as as that goes on there's
0:38:13another prints on later during the
0:38:14parade prince was in quite a coup was
0:38:18commissioned to basically do in a
0:38:20batman-themed album and those songs
0:38:22would be in the movie and then the end
0:38:25and then what happened was Tim Burton
0:38:27said I'm not really interested in that
0:38:29you have you heard my boy Elfman he's
0:38:33got a really good theme
0:38:34yeah well Danny Elfman we could talk
0:38:36about that i think that i think this is
0:38:38one of my favorite movie scores of all
0:38:39time I love the danny elfman score but
0:38:43it is kind of amazing that they got an
0:38:45entire album by Prince that a lot of
0:38:48people really love and it's it's some of
0:38:52it is played in the background in a
0:38:53couple of scenes but there's literally
0:38:55these two scenes where prince comes to
0:38:58the fore at all and it's expressed like
0:39:01part of the plot right right thats that
0:39:04the only use that that Tim Burton has
0:39:06four Prince's like if they're playing
0:39:08music in the movie will play a prince
0:39:12song but otherwise forget it
0:39:15otherwise it's just going to be score
0:39:16did they pick Prince just because he
0:39:18likes purple and the Joker likes purple
0:39:20I don't all i think this was again just
0:39:24a marketing uh you know the marketing
0:39:27behemoth kicking in and he was he was
0:39:29like the biggest thing on warner music
0:39:31more music yeah and they said let's
0:39:34let's make this energy happen
0:39:35yeah and he played saturday night live
0:39:39during the promotion for this stuff and
0:39:41all I can remember is that he did party
0:39:43man
0:39:44and.and who entrust and he's performing
0:39:49those songs on the SNL stage with the
0:39:52giant Batman that logo of course lying
0:39:56behind them because you know I don't
0:39:58know who is intended to be bigger at
0:40:00this point prince or Batman
0:40:02merchandising well i think that was
0:40:04where Prince got his idea to change his
0:40:05name to a giant symbol gonna be
0:40:08unfortunately batman logo was was taken
0:40:11so we couldn't do that
0:40:12Batman princess batman logo hit number
0:40:14one on the billboard album chart it was
0:40:16it was a it was a big seller even though
0:40:18you can barely hear in the movie I just
0:40:20I I wonder what movie would be like I I
0:40:23feel like a modern a more modern movie
0:40:25would have gone all the way with like
0:40:28Prince wall-to-wall and I'm not sure
0:40:30whether that would have been better or
0:40:31worse but it would have been very
0:40:33different from what we get with with
0:40:35these two to the two tracks being played
0:40:37trust and Parliament and and the music I
0:40:39mean just bad dance was the video for
0:40:41that was what like 45 minutes or even
0:40:43six minutes and it was on every hour on
0:40:47mtv furling three days i'm telling you
0:40:50the marketing for this movie brilliant i
0:40:52own a lot of bad songs easily the worst
0:40:55song i own and that means it's worse
0:40:59than all of disco Evita is a cover of
0:41:03batt dance cover we have when i worked
0:41:06at a movie theater we had a CD of a
0:41:08generic bands versions of various movie
0:41:12theme songs because they didn't want to
0:41:15pay for the full rights and some poor
0:41:17girl had to record it and not use any of
0:41:19the samples so they had to get a new
0:41:21actress into the oh my do to go
0:41:24vicki vale vale be keeping that makes me
0:41:27feel like I wasted my time memorizing
0:41:30that song back in the day he got ways to
0:41:33shut the investment ship you can get
0:41:34that back by creating your own cover
0:41:36version you've invested in yourself
0:41:38every day here from now on they couldn't
0:41:40even be bothered to playback dance over
0:41:42the end credits
0:41:43yeah yeah I know right i mean
0:41:45that'sthat's i do think that it's a
0:41:47missed opportunity there it's also just
0:41:49a sign of the left hand and the right
0:41:50hand not knowing what each other was
0:41:51doing that by tim burton well so I have
0:41:55a lot of theories about this movie that
0:41:56maybe i'll get to before we
0:41:58it's a batman returns that but there's
0:42:00definitely the conflict between the
0:42:02studio and the marketing and the giant
0:42:04machine and Tim Burton who likes to make
0:42:06weird quirky tweet little movies there
0:42:10was a lot of conflict creatively about
0:42:12this movie and I think it's amazing that
0:42:14that it turns out as well as it does
0:42:16given all of that
0:42:18well I mean you had John Peters
0:42:20producing or executive producing and he
0:42:23was kind of insane mom you know and I'm
0:42:26sure prince was his idea and and going
0:42:29here let's do this and let's do that
0:42:31let's do this and and I know that the
0:42:33ending was not tim burton's idea that
0:42:36wasn't in the script it was John Peters
0:42:38going hey would it be awesome if they
0:42:39like climb to the top of the cathedral
0:42:41and the whole thing took place up there
0:42:42and why do we kill Vicki Vale and then
0:42:44Batman will get really angry
0:42:46it's like okay and and he went ahead and
0:42:50had the thing constructed without
0:42:52clearing it with anybody was just like
0:42:54here this is gonna be the end of the
0:42:55movie and they actually and like they
0:42:59asked to Burton's like why are we
0:43:00climbing to the top of the thing because
0:43:02i don't know we'll figure it out when
0:43:03you get there and they had to redo that
0:43:06so that's that's kinda like the movie a
0:43:07microcosm the original screen
0:43:09screenwriter was a guy named sam ham and
0:43:12then a guy named warrants car and came
0:43:14in after it so alliteration was
0:43:16absolutely important while riding right
0:43:21but I mean yeah thank you
0:43:22I and my understanding is the Sam ham
0:43:25script was fairly straight and you have
0:43:30monkey you have lines that survived of
0:43:33the the the rewrite and temperance
0:43:37direction that get completely turned
0:43:39over like the the Joker cylindrical e it
0:43:44you might join me for a week after the
0:43:47weird confrontation between Bruce Wayne
0:43:50and the Joker and Vicki and he plays it
0:43:52for Laughs things like that there is so
0:43:55much dissonance in this movie between
0:43:59temper and sensibilities and and the
0:44:01screenwriters is this a serious movie or
0:44:05is tim burton taking the piss out of
0:44:07superheroes in general because he's Tim
0:44:10Burton
0:44:11you're right it'sit's it's amazing that
0:44:13this movie is this is successful as it
0:44:15is because these parts don't fit no no
0:44:20they really don't know there are other
0:44:21parts to that that will get 22 because
0:44:25there's that the whole romantic comedy
0:44:26part that comes back again later
0:44:28that's like a totally other movie said
0:44:30that also happens in here it's like When
0:44:33Harry Met Sally if Harry was Batman
0:44:35anyway
0:44:35hey will but I don't know what she's
0:44:38happy so the museum the museum scene i
0:44:42like because it is this manic Joker
0:44:44dancing around the prince and I think
0:44:45that's pretty good
0:44:46there's some great dialogue in here this
0:44:48is this is quality Joker antics write
0:44:50like this is the one-dollar bill i like
0:44:52that that's pretty good
0:44:54uh I don't know if it's art but i like
0:44:56it like he says at that painting the
0:44:59one-dollar bill and then a scene later
0:45:01he says what he wants is to have his
0:45:03face on the one-dollar bill and I like
0:45:05to think the Joker just thought of it
0:45:06because he just saw panting I like the
0:45:08one where they go by the really weird
0:45:10painting and he's like I I don't touch
0:45:11this one I kinda like it
0:45:13they move on its we're creating a move
0:45:16on it's good and then and then I I like
0:45:18how it all comes together where he tells
0:45:19vicki vale I'm an artist I'm a car i'm a
0:45:22card until someone dies that's what i do
0:45:25and it's like all right I get the Joker
0:45:27now is it a night Jerry Hall comes back
0:45:29and Jerry Hall yeah exactly who he is
0:45:31he's a he's really hide that she's
0:45:34wearing them at why she wearing the mask
0:45:36and she's acting all weird and then yeah
0:45:39she just make it but that man comes to
0:45:42say Vicky before we can get more time in
0:45:44the in the museum but i just i love the
0:45:46museum scene i love i love ya i love the
0:45:48whole thing it's weird and and funny and
0:45:51and yeah it's good and that leads
0:45:54directly into a Batmobile that we have
0:45:56never seen yeah that's right before him
0:45:59that movie live one note which is the if
0:46:01I had to say there's one perfect shot in
0:46:03Batman it is probably my favorite shot
0:46:07the movie is when he comes through the
0:46:09skylight in the museum and the whole
0:46:11Cape is like fully now like like you see
0:46:15the whole Cape coming down i love that
0:46:17that's great and then the whole thing
0:46:20where he just sort of worth I think
0:46:22wordlessly um
0:46:24no just stands there and fires off as
0:46:26very a lot of lot of gadgets and these
0:46:28ones that ropes and then slides away and
0:46:30out the door and then they get into
0:46:32battle which has applied which is this
0:46:34wacky again wacky modular CarDekho
0:46:38high-tech Batmobile thing
0:46:40yeah where did you find the Batmobile in
0:46:43all versions for a Batman for decades
0:46:46like immediately the comics like oh yeah
0:46:48let's do that
0:46:49yeah when they had man the animated
0:46:51series oh no we're gonna look just like
0:46:53this movie and have that bat will be
0:46:54really until christian bale batman i
0:46:57guess where it's a little more it so
0:46:59it's it's a different wider kind of
0:47:01platform thing but yeah that's cool cool
0:47:03Batmobile huh cool when we said let's
0:47:05stop having cool cars have an ugly tank
0:47:07yep yeah i mean i really like the
0:47:09animated version but this would be my
0:47:11second favorite Batmobile so i mean i
0:47:13like that it does not look like any
0:47:15other car right it's it just looks crazy
0:47:18yeah he didn't soup something up now
0:47:20like this is a billion the whole way and
0:47:22it doesn't even in the backyard and it
0:47:24almost doesn't look like a car right
0:47:26like it looks more like like a weird
0:47:27shoe or something in a copper yeah
0:47:29that's good
0:47:30yeah it it's like out torpedo with wheel
0:47:33yeah yeah it's a mash-up between the
0:47:34chrysler building an sr-71 but it
0:47:38doesn't look quite so good it looks
0:47:40great when it's still but when they're
0:47:43driving around with it i think that
0:47:45every out this suspension to tell we
0:47:47break down with it it's gonna be hard to
0:47:49turn that thing on the link
0:47:50yeah yeah it's not just the Batmobile
0:47:52though they're there is the chase that
0:47:55they go through their there is one
0:47:56intersection that it goes through that I
0:47:59I'm not kidding you is the most fake
0:48:02looking set oh yeah I have never seen in
0:48:06a movie where they're driving through
0:48:08and it's like that is not a street that
0:48:11is not available in public that is that
0:48:14is that like that's a backlog but a lot
0:48:16of this movie and and like some of the
0:48:18street seems the parade to is the same
0:48:20way again
0:48:21where it is just super fake and like
0:48:24like minimal effort was made here the
0:48:27art direction for Gotham is great but
0:48:29like they have like two intersections
0:48:31right like they just did and I use them
0:48:33over and over
0:48:34and right like really go meet under that
0:48:36bridge again yes a parade and the press
0:48:39conferences and like you know that like
0:48:41the outside of City Hall and the outside
0:48:43of the like that movie theater like a
0:48:45Chrysler want me to build a block and
0:48:47that's able to block you can get away
0:48:48with that sort of thing on Star Trek
0:48:50cause also all corridors look the same
0:48:52right but this this soundstage is so
0:48:55distinctive not all your corridors can
0:48:57be Crime Alley it doesn't work I'm going
0:49:00to let us leave the beauty and without
0:49:01distracting everybody with my crackpot
0:49:03theory if people would like to hear my
0:49:04crackpot theory email me how are you
0:49:07you want some more email marketing or
0:49:10you can tweet at Mangia Mangia never
0:49:12actually quick and ask him for a
0:49:14crackpot theory so they get digging in
0:49:17an alley they get cotton ali-a Batman
0:49:21decides to flee with Vicki up by by
0:49:24firing his bat whatever-it-is rope thing
0:49:28up and asked her how much she weighs so
0:49:31that there's a wait joke that is made
0:49:33with i rolled my eyes as well especially
0:49:35you already had zip-lined with her like
0:49:37you know
0:49:38yeah I'm not your second you know this
0:49:39is not your first rodeo like yeah he
0:49:42should know the way we're making fat
0:49:44jokes about Kim Basinger really I know
0:49:46right
0:49:47this is not the most feminist movies
0:49:50yeah you don't say sharing like yes they
0:49:54loud cheering like 200 pounds of our
0:49:56chip is this the most feminist Batman
0:49:58movie you see let's dig deeper on this
0:50:02i would say it could be worse but it's
0:50:05not great
0:50:06mr. Drazen pieces now could this be what
0:50:09could be worse but the way joke it
0:50:11stands well you know like i said there
0:50:12are moments with Vicki failing I'm like
0:50:14alright that's good but yeah there are
0:50:16other things that are not but I want to
0:50:18talk about I want to talk about the
0:50:19fights in the alley because there are a
0:50:20whole bunch of Joker's henchmen who come
0:50:22to fight Batman in the alley and they're
0:50:24like there's like a fighter guy and then
0:50:27there's like a ninja and Tony to answer
0:50:29your question in the in the late
0:50:31eighties in Gotham City
0:50:32did we have a lot of ninjas in the
0:50:34actual answers oh god yes yes there were
0:50:37so many ninjas and there are some here
0:50:39some of the henchmen turned out to be
0:50:40ninjas everything I know about New York
0:50:43City is formed from the Ninja Turtles
0:50:45movie not the michael bay 1 and the
0:50:48Warriors so i see i have no problems
0:50:50with this scene so you're missing humble
0:50:52and rocks which is any key component it
0:50:55has the whole alpine part of New York
0:50:57City its means and and here we see one
0:51:00of the biggest limitations of this movie
0:51:02that I never noticed back in 1989 but in
0:51:06the days of the Marvel Cinematic
0:51:08Universe i'm totally scene which is your
0:51:10hero cannot move ya soon so damn big
0:51:15these these fight scenes probably looked
0:51:18great when we have nothing to compare
0:51:19them to but he they're not moving you're
0:51:23not moving
0:51:23although the bad guys bad guys moving in
0:51:25Batman like either steps out of the way
0:51:27or just punches them because that's
0:51:28about all he could I mean he gets shot
0:51:29several times and I guess he's just
0:51:31tough enough that they bounce often i
0:51:32mean i can remember i am NOT approaching
0:51:35this movie with the level of nostalgia
0:51:36that the rest of the team here is and
0:51:39yeah all these action sequences fall
0:51:41pretty yes you're younger than us
0:51:43yeah there's a scene where you can tell
0:51:45what they wrote up was Batman beat up
0:51:47all the thugs and in the background that
0:51:49Joker dances with Vicki fail and it
0:51:51looks great down and boy takes a long
0:51:55time to beat up those thugs he can't
0:51:57even bend your waist plus the books did
0:52:00the usual thing and they went at a one
0:52:02or two at a time
0:52:03well it's sorted they're simple learning
0:52:04center rules never thinks to swarm
0:52:06answer one of them just falls through
0:52:08the floor without touching him huh
0:52:10that's the Batman that good so I mean
0:52:13for me there's three pillars
0:52:15Batman right okay tell me more alright
0:52:18this is good
0:52:18I mean we're getting some church a
0:52:19Batman stuff going on here this good
0:52:21ever know three pillars of Batman you
0:52:23didn't stop me so here I go
0:52:25gadgets detective work and you know
0:52:29ninja skills this movie realize pretty
0:52:32heavily on one pillar of Batman I i
0:52:35would prefer to see a little bit more of
0:52:36an even distribution across the three
0:52:38pillars is what I'm saying
0:52:39so are you saying you want a more
0:52:41holistic but i want ya i want a more
0:52:43complete Batman if you are looking to
0:52:46become think how can you be a more
0:52:48complete Batman right to modify ashley
0:52:51and i'll forward that to me
0:52:54possibly with some editorializing yeah
0:52:58mmm yeah the the suit this i think the
0:53:01suit looks great but he can't handing
0:53:04them know well it looks great when he's
0:53:06not moving in which is most of the time
0:53:09ready kazi and burton thought anything
0:53:11else didn't look threatening enough and
0:53:13see you know looking threatening is not
0:53:16the the key thing with Batman he's got
0:53:20to be able to move
0:53:21yeah but one thing you think of when you
0:53:23think of bats is a mobility I I do
0:53:29really like the scene that comes up here
0:53:31when they're riding back to the Batcave
0:53:33in the Batmobile and kim basinger starts
0:53:36to look at him and his space and all
0:53:38that he turns on the light
0:53:39yes and it shines in her face so she
0:53:41can't see and she kind of raises her
0:53:43hand and that and the the score comes up
0:53:45and they blast through this you know
0:53:48through the the down that country road
0:53:50and into the hidden entryway to the
0:53:52Batcave i love that whole thing that's
0:53:54like super mystery Batman he's not going
0:53:57to let you look at his head his mouth
0:53:59and chin to figure out who is there's a
0:54:01light he's got to stop people from doing
0:54:03that if they if he takes a passenger on
0:54:05in the Batcave he keeps turning his head
0:54:07to keep himself shadow tushy gaseum yeah
0:54:10it's a superhero actually worried about
0:54:12whether or not people can see his face
0:54:14yes as opposed to the the as opposed to
0:54:17Batman Returns which we'll get to in a
0:54:19minute or any of your movie spider-man
0:54:21these days it could be that mask in
0:54:23media and the drop of a hat
0:54:25yeah hot
0:54:26it is so I romantic comedy starts
0:54:30suddenly there's a there's a whole plot
0:54:34where Bruce is trying to tell her that I
0:54:37that he's Batman he's gonna admit it
0:54:40he's gonna let let let that loose
0:54:43except he can't do it and and uh she
0:54:47says he's a jerk and then and then it
0:54:50says so shut up and he pushes her down
0:54:51which I'm like yeah that's not actually
0:54:53that cool but ok it's the eighties it's
0:54:55a romantic comedy alright and then he's
0:54:57he struggles to get things out and she
0:54:59thinks he's married but he's trying to
0:55:01admit and in fact would probably have
0:55:03said on that man at some point if the
0:55:06Joker doesn't knock on the door and then
0:55:08our romantic comedy becomes a sort of
0:55:10weird romantic comedy crime tension
0:55:15thing
0:55:16NAA source i will cite later says that
0:55:20this was kind of any impactors improv
0:55:24moment in the movie and it just doesn't
0:55:27fit by this point Robert will have been
0:55:29off the screen for a good 30 40 minutes
0:55:32and he's not coming
0:55:33yeah he's not it was a very good 32
0:55:36different hits just a different movie in
0:55:38this in this part there's that I mean
0:55:40there's some nice bits in here uh the
0:55:43the Bruce Wayne when he comes in he says
0:55:45he comments on our honor apart right
0:55:47nice apartment right Monty nice place
0:55:49lots of space and then so when the Joker
0:55:51comes in he says nice place lots of
0:55:53space and like they say the same things
0:55:55that was that was kinda funny but you
0:55:57know Bruce Wayne provokes the Joker come
0:56:00on let's get nuts
0:56:02I don't really understand why he does
0:56:05that
0:56:05it seems weird is the plan is for him to
0:56:08be shot
0:56:09we're right where he has the little
0:56:11metal tray so that he doesn't die
0:56:13I don't know it is a little coincidental
0:56:16yeah I I don't understand why this scene
0:56:19is the way it is because because if
0:56:21anyone if the Joker is going to shoot
0:56:24anyone anywhere
0:56:26why would he aim for the heart he would
0:56:27do like various parts of the body i want
0:56:29you twitch and you know yet he would
0:56:31name you and make you hurt until you're
0:56:33coming man
0:56:34it's Chinatown it's trying to town shake
0:56:36at my only explanation and it's not a
0:56:38good one
0:56:39is the idea that that Bruce Wayne is
0:56:42trying to be chivalrous and by time to
0:56:45figure this out
0:56:46yeah and if you keep intention on
0:56:48himself and not Vicki less likely that
0:56:50she's going to get her that but like I
0:56:52said that still weak as water and it's a
0:56:54really strange scene and it's because
0:56:57they need the Joker to shoot Bruce there
0:57:00so that he can say the dance with the
0:57:01devil line
0:57:02yeah which he always knows when he kills
0:57:04people accept all those other times when
0:57:06he doesn't say we kill people have a
0:57:08right to killed several people by this
0:57:10one saat yeah also that one time he said
0:57:12it and pointed the gun to get in and
0:57:14didn't didn't do it so you know yet but
0:57:16he always telling you always done if you
0:57:18missed it was being prepared
0:57:20ok so he's not the most consistent guys
0:57:22now I'm just I'm just grumbling about
0:57:25that plot point so when he says that
0:57:27though Michael Keaton does reaction that
0:57:29is kind of a cool moment
0:57:31speaking of the Joker's a brilliant
0:57:32plans let's talk about his latest
0:57:33brilliant plan which is he's gonna have
0:57:35a parade where he's going to drop 20
0:57:37million in cash on the crowd for the
0:57:40party
0:57:41that's the a4 everything party or
0:57:42whatever and uh it's uh it's weird
0:57:47because very long
0:57:48yeah yeah because first off first of its
0:57:51kind of unclear about what's going on
0:57:52and and the beginning again i'm going to
0:57:53point out at the beginning of that scene
0:57:55when the parade get started there's like
0:57:57seven people there for the citywide raid
0:57:59with 20 million catch seven people
0:58:02no cops the same intersection that we've
0:58:04seen several times before and a very
0:58:06small like two lane street
0:58:08yeah these huge budgets were not spend
0:58:10on extras now I which is technically got
0:58:13it all yeah i mean when we jump ahead to
0:58:15Batman Returns there's not that many
0:58:16people at that tree lighting so well you
0:58:18know what every year so not watch it at
0:58:21home from on television television yeah
0:58:23there's more prints in the in the parade
0:58:26those who get we get a little bit like
0:58:28that and i actually was reminded in the
0:58:30first sam raimi spider-man movie they
0:58:33have the hooray for everything festival
0:58:34where the green goblin attacks people
0:58:36and there's balloons and stuff and this
0:58:38is it's very much the same scene as this
0:58:41except of course that actually is like
0:58:43in Times Square and has lots of people
0:58:46you know computer-generated people but
0:58:48lots of people and i was i was reminded
0:58:50of that while watching this
0:58:52this is the the low budget version where
0:58:53they have one block and you know 20
0:58:56extra I wondered how much they spent on
0:58:59the sequence where Batman is angry and
0:59:01he drives his car to the chemical plant
0:59:03blows everything up because i thought
0:59:05yeah that seems expensive and didn't
0:59:06have much
0:59:08yeah just rolls rolls the Batmobile and
0:59:09drop some bombs blows up access
0:59:11chemicals and and drives off like yay
0:59:14take that chemical plants the movie did
0:59:16not have enough explosions so think it's
0:59:18a good thing nobody was in there
0:59:20yep so robert wall makes this triumphant
0:59:23reappearance here Monty you're going to
0:59:26roberts he's totally doing what of
0:59:28reporter at an event would do which is
0:59:30he tells the photographer take pictures
0:59:34that expect funny good good tip take for
0:59:38pictures and then he writes a headline
0:59:40out loud as he's taking pictures
0:59:41Gotham's greed this is not how
0:59:43journalism works this is not water
0:59:45reporter does but at least robert
0:59:46wallace back he knows the idea of
0:59:48journalism there's been quite a little
0:59:51earlier where he yells copy and times
0:59:54completely unprepared for the kid right
0:59:56next to say yes sir
0:59:58don't have any copy for that it
0:59:58don't have any copy for that it
1:00:00if you haven't written a word liar
1:00:02anyway there's a bit there's a bad plane
1:00:04yeah Jason Jason that nice movie you got
1:00:06here I like the Batmobile but we need to
1:00:08sell to toys
1:00:10how can you help me out what if what if
1:00:12we have a bad plane that looks like the
1:00:14Batman logo and he flies in front of the
1:00:15Moon thereby creating a batman logo
1:00:18okay that sounds great however i've only
1:00:20got about eight bucks for the budget so
1:00:22you can never have that appear next to
1:00:24any actual actors because we're going to
1:00:26make maybe like have you make a model of
1:00:27it is that ok what we're going to do is
1:00:29we're going to make a bad plane model
1:00:30that's going to fly around and then
1:00:32we're going to have a thing that we put
1:00:33on like a golf cart that we dragged
1:00:35along r1 street and and and what we'll
1:00:38have is the bad plane will just get shot
1:00:40by a gun and and crash and again another
1:00:43young about apparently the original
1:00:45script called for the choker to have a
1:00:46tank to shoot the bad play down and then
1:00:48for budgetary reasons his tank is
1:00:50replaced with a gun home a gun while
1:00:53somewhere in here is the scene that is
1:00:55most tim burton e in the movie to me
1:00:57which is when the plane grabs all the
1:01:00balloons and flies away
1:01:02oh yeah those balloons I'm positive are
1:01:06based on the same sketches that led to
1:01:08nightmare before christmas know those
1:01:11blues are the same toys that are under
1:01:13trees because those more than anything
1:01:17else the movie say hi I'm Tim Burton I
1:01:20like stuff that looks like this
1:01:21yeah I do like that scene where Batman's
1:01:23got his like a little claw or whatever
1:01:25on the bad plane that can grab the
1:01:27balloons and and it leads to the the
1:01:29Joker getting very upset he took my
1:01:31balloons
1:01:32I love that he had that yeah that the
1:01:35parts that part's good a poor Bob I like
1:01:38the idea that the balloons themselves
1:01:40are full of poison gas and will be
1:01:42released on the unsuspecting public
1:01:44that's kind of fun you can think about
1:01:46that when you're watching the
1:01:47thanksgiving parade next year that's i
1:01:50mean that's like that classic Joker
1:01:51style plot right i mean i'm down yeah oh
1:01:54yeah oh yeah why is it that they get
1:01:56bigger as the gas is released
1:01:59I'm just confused about that point it's
1:02:01physics everything with distance in that
1:02:03entire sequence does not make any sense
1:02:05like the size of the balloons or
1:02:06whatever size they need to be the
1:02:08proximity of the balloons to the Joker
1:02:10is whatever they need to be it
1:02:12yeah it's don't worry about it
1:02:14everything's great that point though we
1:02:15get action hero robert wall because he
1:02:18master himself except a baseball bat
1:02:21what is he doing you're not the hero of
1:02:24this movie sir you don't know that they
1:02:26could rename it later call it knocks man
1:02:28yeah this thing is hard time cap it's
1:02:31the journalists in the bad man that'll
1:02:33be wanted to go you know he could just
1:02:35as easily be in the suit to do we really
1:02:39know this the scene ends with the climax
1:02:42where they all run up into a tower and
1:02:43fight because there's always a towering
1:02:46it all follows yeah you're right exactly
1:02:47right hand there's got to be a tower and
1:02:49here it is a giant Bell falls down an
1:02:52oxide stairs so that no one can chase
1:02:54them up except also conveniently at the
1:02:56top of the tower there's like ten Joker
1:02:58goons that doesn't make any sense
1:02:59uh-huh yeah I don't know when those guys
1:03:01came from don't worry about it
1:03:03they're there and again it's it's a
1:03:04variety of goods yeah they're judging
1:03:07goons and there's ninja goon yeah this
1:03:09is you know cartwheeling goon yeah mhm
1:03:12diversification yeah yeah you got a
1:03:14different kinds of guns and that allows
1:03:15the Joker to dance and make jokes while
1:03:18Batman has to fight various goons well
1:03:21yeah this is this is not one of my
1:03:24favorite parts of the movie sounds like
1:03:25the perfunctory we have to have a boss
1:03:27fight at the end of the movie thing
1:03:30yeah and that's what it you know knowing
1:03:32that now it kind of shows through in the
1:03:35direction
1:03:35yeah because tim burton didn't want to
1:03:37do that now for the ending that there's
1:03:39a problem you always have with batman
1:03:41vs. the Joker which is Batman is strong
1:03:44in the Joker isn't yeah so if that man
1:03:48punches Joker even once that's kind of
1:03:51the end of the game
1:03:52yeah once you get to the Joker you
1:03:54that's the one
1:03:55once you can get get to him yeah well
1:03:57and we'll see this again in batman
1:03:58returns but in the comics you know
1:04:00Joker's got this wiry insane strength
1:04:02and Batman happens did not be wearing
1:04:04armor so it's a bit of a fairer fine
1:04:08and yet we have just completely missed
1:04:11actually the the issue that of Batman
1:04:17secret origin which they're about to
1:04:20have out here on top of this bill I I so
1:04:22yeah they we get the dance with the
1:04:24devil in the pale moon
1:04:25like all that and it's revealed that
1:04:27like i said earlier that the Joker uh we
1:04:30went jet when he was young jack napier
1:04:32he was the one who shot Bruce Wayne's
1:04:34parents and there's that moment of like
1:04:36you you know you created me and you
1:04:39created me uh and even the Joker the
1:04:42Joker makes fun of that immediately
1:04:44oh sure you got to say that I say you
1:04:46are you crazy you got to say I created
1:04:48you like he doesn't even listen to him
1:04:50so how do people feel about this in the
1:04:52context of the movie i don't i don't
1:04:53like it in the context of Batman but
1:04:55maybe it works I don't mind it here it
1:04:57as a single movie find their dark
1:05:00mirrors of each other that gives him a
1:05:03little extra but that's fine i don't
1:05:05mind did the writers trying to add some
1:05:07depth in here somewhere
1:05:08well that was Burton's idea ok i like
1:05:12the idea that we get Batman's origin in
1:05:14passing and to make it yet to make it
1:05:17relevant in some way I think you could
1:05:18have probably made it relevant where he
1:05:20was killed by somebody like jack napier
1:05:23and not have it literally be him and
1:05:25still have a connection there because
1:05:27that's an awful lot of coincidence but
1:05:29it's fine and you know and that's
1:05:30sometimes that this is handled in
1:05:31different ways
1:05:32I mean I used the person who is usually
1:05:34identified its the killer is this
1:05:36character called Joe Chill and even that
1:05:38some people did not like because they
1:05:40like the idea of more that like the you
1:05:42know that we will he will never know
1:05:44right and that he and right he will go
1:05:46out every night and fight crime and
1:05:47never happened he's never going to be
1:05:49able to 100% Avengers parents because as
1:05:53some faceless hood is the person and you
1:05:55know he has to fight all crime to to
1:05:57confront that as opposed to like nope
1:05:59it's a guy he's got a name and a face
1:06:01and maybe I can get him even some days
1:06:03and they're terribly there's at least
1:06:04one story where that happens so to then
1:06:07make it even be the joker
1:06:09huh yeah not a fan yeah that's that's
1:06:12the point actually that glint and here's
1:06:15where i cite the previous source of Glen
1:06:17Weldon from pop culture happy are wrote
1:06:19a really really good book i really love
1:06:21it
1:06:22the caped crusade and his argument is
1:06:25that by doing this by making the Joker
1:06:29the guy who killed Batman's parents
1:06:31you've turned this from a hero story
1:06:34into a revenge entry fee and and
1:06:38as far as Batman goes I don't like it
1:06:41but as far as a self-contained movie
1:06:44where spoiler alert the Joker dies at
1:06:47the end
1:06:47yeah it kind of makes sense to sort of
1:06:50wrap it all up in the one store
1:06:52ok I'll by-the-sea see my my headcanon
1:06:55is that was that mean it probably still
1:07:00is that it's not really the Joker or
1:07:05jack napier or whoever you want to call
1:07:07them at that point it's that that's what
1:07:09Batman is imagining now and that every
1:07:12night he goes out he sees someone
1:07:15different doing it and that's part of
1:07:17his part of his little quirk about that
1:07:20is psychosis about that so you know to
1:07:24me it doesn't have to be the Joker in
1:07:27this but it makes sense that he would
1:07:28picture him this time so that I think
1:07:32this is basically the end of the movie
1:07:33they they they fight they go for one
1:07:35last press conference
1:07:36yes that's right there's a cliffhanger
1:07:38and then they reverse and then the Joker
1:07:41drops and dies and and there's a press
1:07:45conference and Commissioner Gordon
1:07:47explains that they've been given a bat
1:07:49signal and we pan of intensity CA
1:07:51vigilantes and AH gave us the signal we
1:07:56needed one because we didn't have any
1:07:58spotlights so nobody turn it on though
1:08:00because that is going to rich
1:08:03yeah you could be and that's that's a
1:08:06that's Batman I i was i saw this movie a
1:08:12lot in the I guess early nineties and I
1:08:15was a little worried to revisit it
1:08:17because i haven't revisited in quite a
1:08:19while and you know I i enjoyed watching
1:08:23it it's got lots of issues but I i like
1:08:26the the the way it looks and I like
1:08:29Michael Keaton and I like Jack
1:08:31Nicholson's totally wild performance and
1:08:34I you know I I i enjoyed watching it
1:08:37even though it's definitely of you know
1:08:40of its time
1:08:41what did everybody else think about this
1:08:42one I continue to enjoy it
1:08:44yeah not only as much as I did the first
1:08:46time I saw it we've had a lot more
1:08:47superhero movie since then right i mean
1:08:49that's part
1:08:50that is is that this was the novelty of
1:08:52a movie like a big-budget movie with
1:08:55real actors about Batman it was kind of
1:08:58a big I mean not just the marketing part
1:09:00was a big deal to have this much talent
1:09:04make and money assembled to make a
1:09:07superhero movie and now of course we get
1:09:09to eight or ten days a year but
1:09:12comparing it to modern superhero movies
1:09:14everyone now wants everybody to make
1:09:16sense they try like especially DC movies
1:09:19we try to have motivations for all the
1:09:21characters but a madman like tim burton
1:09:25is willing to say all right jack
1:09:27nicholson remember Cesar Romero double
1:09:31it go
1:09:32yeah that's when my brother made me
1:09:36watch batman begins and we're talking
1:09:39about you haven't seen Batman Begins yet
1:09:42oh my god you have to see Batman Begins
1:09:44i'm watching batman begins and I've got
1:09:47this movie competing with it in the back
1:09:50of my head and I wound up at all
1:09:53I almost I want up disliking batman
1:09:56begins because it was too much of an
1:09:58effort to make Batman realistic and yes
1:10:03and when you when you when you get to
1:10:06the point where Bruce Wayne puts on bat
1:10:08ears
1:10:09it's got to be a whole lot weirder
1:10:11otherwise i'm sitting here going why is
1:10:13he putting on bad ears if i love this i
1:10:16love the 1989 batman because it is just
1:10:21weird enough to make me forgive a whole
1:10:24lot of stuff that doesn't make sense i
1:10:26think mostly holds up as you said you
1:10:29know taking into account that yes it
1:10:31this is tim burton and and tim burton
1:10:33has a unique vision but um it holds up
1:10:37for be overall i have quibbles aplenty
1:10:39here and there but i can still sit down
1:10:44and watch it again and enjoy most of it
1:10:46again
1:10:46yeah I enjoyed as a fusion of a little
1:10:50bit of the Adam West style a little bit
1:10:52of Gary Miller a little bit of Danny
1:10:54O'Neil you know a little bit of neal
1:10:57adams i love that it
1:11:00spawned it sort of gave us the animated
1:11:02series which is my favorite Batman of
1:11:05all and and for me I mean Batman Begins
1:11:09i really liked it when I saw it in the
1:11:11theater and then you know I i didn't
1:11:14watch it for a while and then the Dark
1:11:16Knight came out I well I should rewatch
1:11:18batman begins and I didn't like it as
1:11:20much and i still have not gotten all the
1:11:23way through dark knight rises because it
1:11:25is just so oppressively wrong and you
1:11:30know and so in retrospect I like the
1:11:32Nolan movies less and less as they went
1:11:34on and I still really enjoy this
1:11:36I don't need the plot to make total
1:11:38sense I just think that's good
1:11:40well i'm watching yeah that's not going
1:11:42to mean it's more like comic book
1:11:44actually it is that it is very
1:11:45straightforward in a way that so many of
1:11:47these movies that have multiple villains
1:11:48aren't like look the Joker is bad and
1:11:50he's crazy and he wants to cause cause
1:11:53trouble for Batman and he is interested
1:11:56in Vicki Vale and making him is this
1:11:58next art project and he wants to kill
1:12:01people in Gotham City like I mean that
1:12:03he doesn't have a grand said
1:12:06imaginations that are going to lead to
1:12:08an outcome hehe is just a comic book
1:12:11villain who's trying to do bad stuff and
1:12:14Batman stops him that's I you know it's
1:12:16refreshing in that way that that's kind
1:12:18of all there is to this movie it's dead
1:12:20that's it it's like there's Batman
1:12:21there's the Joker they interact and did
1:12:24the Joker plunges off of a building in
1:12:26his dead and that's it
1:12:27Tony your verdict on Batman I it's fine
1:12:31it's mine
1:12:34the people who made this should not be
1:12:36hunted down and killed for sport
1:12:38oh no this this is for its future it's
1:12:41so many bad memories current anyone I i
1:12:44like the version of The Joker I I think
1:12:47I'm less impressed with this version of
1:12:49Batman than than the rest of you to me
1:12:52he's a little blah the action sequences
1:12:54have not aged particularly well but
1:12:56maybe they were more exciting at the
1:12:58time
1:12:58no I do like weirdo Bruce Wayne I had
1:13:02not remember that and that was that was
1:13:03kind of a treat to discover that but I'd
1:13:07I feel like I mean and this is this is
1:13:09not necessarily a problem with this
1:13:10movie so much as a lot of Batman and
1:13:12general is sometimes Batman is not very
1:13:15exciting and it's his villains that are
1:13:16the interesting fun and I get the sense
1:13:19that maybe tim burton does not care that
1:13:21much about Batman and that this movie is
1:13:24kind of only a lot more about the Joker
1:13:26and this whole will talk about Batman
1:13:28Returns shortly but Batman it can be
1:13:32boring and I think he's especially
1:13:33boring when he's just kinda by himself
1:13:35and that's why I think a lot of stories
1:13:38he gets paired with other people and
1:13:39that that's gonna be fun whether that's
1:13:41Robin or Commissioner Gordon and we get
1:13:44a little bit of that here with with
1:13:46vicki vale but not a lot and so Batman I
1:13:49in this particular film comes across as
1:13:51kind of boring a lot and I think that's
1:13:53a little unfortunate when Commissioner
1:13:54Gordon is a nonentity in this to which
1:13:56is too bad
1:13:57yeah i mean he's there but I want to
1:13:59springboard off something Tony said
1:14:01because dangerous coming out of this
1:14:03movie
1:14:04absolutely everyone talked about how
1:14:08much fun jack nicholson was and nobody
1:14:10talked about Michael Keaton and everyone
1:14:13said oh I get it
1:14:14the villains are the interesting part of
1:14:16the villains add the color and the
1:14:17excitement to the story and I think that
1:14:20led directly to what happens in batman
1:14:23returns
1:14:23mmm yeah I think you're right yeah yeah
1:14:26I mean Keaton is easily my favorite
1:14:28thing in the movie and like I said he's
1:14:30still my favorite movie Batman so Batman
1:14:33Returns then happened and i'm pretty
1:14:38sure i'm going to tell you how i feel
1:14:40about batman returns so that was that
1:14:42was nineteen ninety two three years
1:14:43later
1:14:44so I've got a theory about batman
1:14:45returns I will I will give you my full
1:14:47disclosure upfront i saw batman returns
1:14:49in the theater in 1992 and I hated it
1:14:51and i have not seen it since and i
1:14:54watched it for this podcast and let me
1:14:55tell ya
1:14:56ah twenty-one-year-old me has excellent
1:15:01taste in detecting haha because batman
1:15:06returns is a piece of crap and i will i
1:15:09will argue with those who think
1:15:10otherwise but here's here's my theory
1:15:12because i think it's i think it's
1:15:14garbage i think it is I think it is so
1:15:15terrible and and seeing it again
1:15:18yeah it's so terrible but here's the
1:15:20here's the reason why one tim burton i'm
1:15:22not a tim burton fan
1:15:24Batman is a movie that is compromised by
1:15:27all of the studio oversight the producer
1:15:30oversight the marketing message all of
1:15:32that Tim Burton has said he doesn't like
1:15:35Batman the movie he doesn't like it he's
1:15:37not he thinks it's boring
1:15:38I think Batman is not a movie the timber
1:15:41and really wanted to make or like to
1:15:43make and he didn't get to make the movie
1:15:44he wanted and investment returns after
1:15:46Batman with such a financial success
1:15:48they let tim burton make whatever he
1:15:50wanted and the result is a terrible
1:15:52movie because the only reason Batman is
1:15:54watchable is because they didn't let tim
1:15:56burton be Tim Burton because tim burton
1:15:58being tim burton is the recipe for a bad
1:16:00movie not a bad movie but not a good
1:16:02comic book movie i chatted with Glenn
1:16:04weldon at a book release party and i
1:16:07told him that i was a guy i really loved
1:16:10the book although I thought he was too
1:16:11unkind to the tim burton movies and he
1:16:15said that is an opinion that some people
1:16:17have and so but after the first is so I
1:16:22was thinking about batman returns as I
1:16:24remembered it
1:16:25I watched it for the first time just
1:16:28before we started recording and I Oh
1:16:31Glenn weldon an apology
1:16:33so as you know this movie is not good
1:16:36my problem is i wanted i want to defend
1:16:39tim burton I don't want to defend this
1:16:41movie which is garbage
1:16:43well I'll put it out put it this way
1:16:44Monty I can see how reasonable people
1:16:46would like some of Tim Burton's movies I
1:16:48don't they don't work for me and I
1:16:50either i think we're talking in our
1:16:51slack earlier about how i feel about tim
1:16:53burton movies like how some people feel
1:16:55about wes anderson movies which is they
1:16:57feel all exactly the same to me
1:16:59whatever the sensibility is that he's
1:17:00trying to get across it obviously really
1:17:02works for him and people who like his
1:17:04movies and it doesn't work for me like I
1:17:05just it's all just noise to me I i find
1:17:08it all unpleasant in with some
1:17:11exceptions like dead wood made pee-wee's
1:17:13big adventure is a good example right
1:17:14but a lot of the movies he makes I don't
1:17:16really love that man returns though I
1:17:17feel like is is everything I don't like
1:17:20about a Tim Burton movie like multiplied
1:17:23and it concentrated well let me put it
1:17:26this way i am tuned into tim burton to
1:17:28the point where I kind of enjoyed the
1:17:30Dark Shadows movie it was not as
1:17:32annoying as I thought it was going to be
1:17:34Batman Returns I can't stand
1:17:37I think there's it i don't think he gets
1:17:40any of the quirkiness and it's just the
1:17:43surface level stuff
1:17:44oh no it's all I've got it's too much
1:17:46pork if I want to list a couple more my
1:17:48theories here which is which is I do
1:17:50think that this is one of those movies
1:17:52that really lets us down the path of hey
1:17:54what if we had more villains in
1:17:56superhero movies it's a terrible idea i
1:17:58don't know if it's ever been done well
1:17:59where they've added like multiple
1:18:01supervillains in a superhero movie and
1:18:04had it work out to improve the movie and
1:18:07I don't think it does it here either so
1:18:09I think that's part of the problem and I
1:18:10think fundamentally and this came up
1:18:11earlier Tim Burton totally doesn't think
1:18:14Batman is interesting and for the
1:18:16largest part of Batman Returns Batman is
1:18:19not even around it is really the story
1:18:21of the penguin and catwoman and Batman
1:18:24is like the doofus who shows up and hugs
1:18:27them sometimes I'll got that was one of
1:18:30the things that drove me nuts this time
1:18:33I remember watching this I don't think I
1:18:35saw it in the theater but i think i saw
1:18:37it on a cable channel or on a on VHS
1:18:41afterwards at some point and it
1:18:44irritated me at the time thinking like
1:18:46you know they really could have done
1:18:49better a better job with Catwoman
1:18:51this was before I really knew Selina
1:18:54Kyle's Catwoman's origins in in the
1:18:57comics I hadn't seen the animated series
1:18:58yet and this origin story
1:19:02neither of these origin stories make any
1:19:05he says it's she falls all falls out of
1:19:07a window and and fall to her death
1:19:10except she's hit a few awnings on the
1:19:12way down but then cats swarm her and
1:19:15Jason she stays on you I to explain to
1:19:17you how magic works i I'm just saying I
1:19:20wasn't aware that that that is looking
1:19:22after strange movie that woman is like a
1:19:24Cat spirit totem person or something but
1:19:28that's what this movie once but also
1:19:30that penguins raised a baby
1:19:32yeah well there to be fair to be fair I
1:19:37think there's the implication that he
1:19:38was also raised by the circus and just
1:19:39wasn't mentioned all right okay for
1:19:40being our reason that Maxie there who
1:19:42will speak for the circus i will speak
1:19:44specifically its ok awning had a picture
1:19:46of it out on it i did and they were just
1:19:48talking about the heads before she felt
1:19:51she got possessed by an awning spirit is
1:19:53that what you're telling me she know
1:19:55that would have been on any woman but
1:19:56what happens if if you say I'm not a cat
1:19:59and then you fall through an awning with
1:20:02a picture of a cat and then cats come
1:20:03around you you are forced to start
1:20:06talking all sorts of cat medical person
1:20:09for the whole one point try to wash
1:20:11yourself by licking your hand what the
1:20:13animal animal theme right i mean that's
1:20:15it is penguin and catwoman so we're
1:20:17going to have lots of animals and and at
1:20:19one point there's like I'm not a human
1:20:21being I'm an animal is something that so
1:20:23Danny DeVito is the penguin and machine
1:20:26uh-oh who is it
1:20:28now i'm going to show you shall find her
1:20:31she'll fight for his cat lineart is
1:20:32selina kyle Christopher Walken is Max
1:20:36Schreck named after the star of nice
1:20:39verado he dresses like Scrooge in A
1:20:41Christmas Carol which is just how about
1:20:44that makeup i like when they introduce
1:20:45him he said he's in a meeting
1:20:47so you know he's probably not so great
1:20:48and he's wearing gloves inside so you
1:20:50know he's really evil
1:20:52yeah he's also very clearly modeled
1:20:55after Donald Trump I'm not kidding he's
1:20:57very clearly modeled on absolutely
1:20:59practically his last line is you're
1:21:01fired
1:21:02this movie was actually a little
1:21:03uncomfortable to watch after the
1:21:05election now tell you living in the new
1:21:07york area at the time that with
1:21:08everybody was like wow he's like goth
1:21:11Donald Trump whoa
1:21:13he was the only good thing in the movie
1:21:15well i was gonna say the for me the only
1:21:17three good things in the movie
1:21:19christopher walken yes the fact that
1:21:22Michael Keaton finally gets top billing
1:21:24an event info k you know yeah but he had
1:21:28a fourth most lines pay now and in the
1:21:31fact that the words to the music in this
1:21:33were really easy to memorize I like the
1:21:35I like the part where all the Penguins
1:21:37are come on the march i watch that twice
1:21:39that was my hair part not be entirely
1:21:42fire some some rockets
1:21:44yeah rocket which the Penguins have the
1:21:46Penguins have targeting radicals
1:21:48dropping over their eyes they have
1:21:50targeting monocles y to the Penguins
1:21:52have remote control
1:21:53sorry possibly carry his corpse to the
1:21:56water at the end
1:21:59yes they did make sure you did there's a
1:22:00very nice sort of penguin ceremony they
1:22:04have level
1:22:04tating Majesty is this your first
1:22:06penguin funeral yep there's yeah but
1:22:09it's this this movie so so yeah the lab
1:22:12since of Batman he just disappears for
1:22:15for a large portion of the movie the
1:22:18penguin stuff I found not interesting
1:22:20Christopher Walken is he is the best
1:22:23thing in the movie i like i like him
1:22:26it's a bizarre performance but i really
1:22:28enjoy it well it's one yeah yeah and I
1:22:31think that's probably a problem that the
1:22:33the that's orthogonal to the whole mood
1:22:35right notion of Batman
1:22:37yeah I want to follow him and see what
1:22:39he's up we'll match trek to next and the
1:22:41answer is he gets killed by the cat by
1:22:44Catwoman at the end by I feel like that
1:22:46yeah I thought about that he's like the
1:22:48Robert will love this movie
1:22:50if that's the s I've never heard driver
1:22:53will always Christopher Walken compared
1:22:55but there it is
1:22:57yeah we want water for walk-ins are huh
1:23:00I just just gonna say that generate that
1:23:03just for teaching you do not want to
1:23:05mess with that drives me nuts of the the
1:23:08the way they had some of for me one of
1:23:12the strengths in the movie was post
1:23:15transformation Catwoman Pfeiffer you
1:23:18know then that and it was really
1:23:20entertaining that they even had to
1:23:22transform her in the first place I mean
1:23:24Selina Kyle in the comics is it a rich
1:23:28lady who decides to you know start
1:23:30stealing jewelry or whatever but no
1:23:32they're going to have to transform
1:23:34Michelle Pfeiffer tried to make her a
1:23:36frump so that they can turn everything
1:23:38very old glamour Woman out towards your
1:23:40glasses corndog yes I and there were so
1:23:44many good points
1:23:45hidden inside the Catwoman story the the
1:23:48idea of her trying to become her own
1:23:51vigilante because at first she's you
1:23:53know she your first thing she does is
1:23:55rescue a woman although she's very upset
1:23:57that the woman let herself get caught in
1:23:59the first place and then she turns to
1:24:01destruction of going after Schrag it
1:24:04then it turns into this weird unresolved
1:24:07sexual tension between her and between
1:24:10Catwoman Batman that just comes out of
1:24:11nowhere and makes no sense their moves
1:24:15are so totally weird so weird
1:24:16it emphasizes the other thing I
1:24:18hate about this movie which is how dumb
1:24:20Batman is for the first two-thirds of
1:24:22the movie
1:24:22yeah he's the world when he shows up
1:24:25he's done the world's greatest detective
1:24:27your detective skills i wrote down at
1:24:29one point the world's greatest detective
1:24:31with a bunch of question marks and then
1:24:33like three lines down in my notes it
1:24:34says oh now the world's greatest
1:24:36detective is punching clowns that is
1:24:39what that many other members interests I
1:24:41will I will I will also check in with
1:24:43with my wiser friends here about what it
1:24:46was like when this movie came out I was
1:24:48still a child and I recall it being
1:24:50weird that this movie I was still like a
1:24:53vehicle for shuffling action figures
1:24:55that kids even though it was so much
1:24:58more violent and had like the sexual
1:25:00themes to it that the video even amalia
1:25:02think people if it's that I don't you
1:25:04want to do with that felt weird uh i
1:25:06mean i remember seeing like like kids
1:25:09dressed up as catwoman for halloween
1:25:11like young children and be like this
1:25:13analysis weird yeah this is not run
1:25:15harley quinn me this this year lots of
1:25:18people went to see it lots of people i
1:25:21mean probably went back for second
1:25:23feelings but when you've got Paul Bearer
1:25:26penguins you don't know what to do with
1:25:28Paul Bearer people i'm ok with that part
1:25:31yeah no one knew what to do I have
1:25:33benefit memories i don't know why i
1:25:34remember this of Joan Rivers when she
1:25:37had her TV show and she has this gossip
1:25:41columnist or press you know somebody who
1:25:43was on the celebrity circuit talking
1:25:45about like one of the one of the
1:25:47pre-release parties or something for for
1:25:49the movie and she showing Joan Rivers
1:25:52this paperweight that's designed so that
1:25:55was one of the big things was it was
1:25:56Christmastime it was snow snow
1:25:58everywhere so there was this glass
1:25:59paperweight with the Batman logo inside
1:26:01it and if you tilted at the snow would
1:26:03move across it and here's Joan Rivers
1:26:05plain-looking with this thing playing
1:26:07with it going what the hell is this
1:26:09that that that felt like the general
1:26:12reaction after once the movie was out
1:26:14it's like what the hell is this the
1:26:16buzzwords were there
1:26:17penguin Catwoman Batman's back and while
1:26:20that man back really well they didn't
1:26:22bother with anything so yeah was
1:26:25worthwhile i mean i remember at the time
1:26:28thinking you know remembering back three
1:26:30years to all the marketing push and
1:26:32everybody saw the logo and everything
1:26:34was bright and bold and fun and you know
1:26:37just the logo itself was you know black
1:26:40and gold and just just jumped out at you
1:26:43and this did not have any of that it
1:26:46didn't have a song you know again
1:26:47whatever we think of the songs and all
1:26:49it didn't have a song playing every hour
1:26:51on mtv it didn't have anything bouncy
1:26:54and fun to it
1:26:55the only thing you ever saw was dark and
1:26:57snow and ice and and their three phases
1:27:00and they looked so c is also it it's an
1:27:02xmas movie it's set at Christmastime and
1:27:05it was released in june so perfect
1:27:08timing that one of the one of the pieces
1:27:10that was taken out of the first batman
1:27:14movie was or heavily reduced was the
1:27:18notion of the Batman and Joker being
1:27:21parts different sides of the same coin
1:27:24there's a head newspaper headline in an
1:27:27early script that was taken out where
1:27:30the headline is war of the freaks and
1:27:34they seemed to rediscover that idea for
1:27:37this movie because they put so much
1:27:39effort into turning pink winning
1:27:42Catwoman into freaks and also playing
1:27:46with the idea of Batman as they feel
1:27:48weak and tim burton seems to be so
1:27:51fascinated with that he forgets to make
1:27:54a superhero movie or just have Batman
1:27:57he's not interested in Batman he Tim
1:27:59Burton very clearly as bored by Batman
1:28:01and so this is a movie about the about
1:28:03Catwoman and penguin really and there's
1:28:06a little bit of satire about him running
1:28:08for for mayor and there's the L and
1:28:10there's max Shreck trying to manipulate
1:28:12things and all of that but but that man
1:28:15doesn't get a lot of time Bruce Wayne
1:28:17gets a little time sort of like in his
1:28:19again there's this other thread which is
1:28:21his attraction to Selina Kyle and
1:28:23Batman's attraction to Catwoman and
1:28:25that's that feels like something out of
1:28:27the comics a little bit and when we get
1:28:29to the very love that yeah yeah I I'll i
1:28:31think that's I think that's one of my
1:28:33grandma definitely strong parts that
1:28:35yeah let these two really good actors
1:28:37give them this really tangled issue let
1:28:40them go
1:28:41Michelle Pfeiffer after she after she
1:28:44gets dumped out of the window and when
1:28:47she's not in the cat suit is fascinating
1:28:51yeah except in that scene where she's
1:28:53sewing that the scene where she comes
1:28:54back to her apartment and just yeah that
1:28:57is and then shows her thing i hate that
1:28:59seen a library then she pulls it
1:29:01together
1:29:02yeah that the reason I don't think this
1:29:04was all tim burton's idea is he would
1:29:06rather have the freaks be the heroes
1:29:09instead of the villains sure like he
1:29:12would rather do Edward Scissorhands then
1:29:14have the guy who's yeah shunned by
1:29:17society be actually ugly and horrible
1:29:20like Danny DeVito I mean Danny DeVito's
1:29:22Eric he's making to go with like well
1:29:25what can I do with the Batman movie to
1:29:27give it to get what I want it's like to
1:29:29have these two have these characters
1:29:31like this i'm a little surprised that
1:29:33Catwoman ends up ends up killing max at
1:29:38the end because it seems kind of
1:29:39unnecessary she they they kiss over a
1:29:42Taser to it's really stupid
1:29:43oh yeah now he did kill her first true
1:29:46but I think I feel like that would be an
1:29:47interesting moment of like I issue
1:29:50batteries she good
1:29:52like maybe maybe maybe she's more
1:29:54complicated than that because that
1:29:55character is kind of like that she's a
1:29:57little bit of both and then the penguin
1:29:58this is more irredeemable but you know
1:30:01that's again you know that they're in
1:30:04the end it is about them just sort of
1:30:06like having a moment on the stage and
1:30:07then sort of a perfunctory I guess
1:30:10Batman needs to clean this up at the end
1:30:11because it's that kind of movie
1:30:13yeah I do like that little clever bit at
1:30:15the beginning of the movie before she
1:30:18takes her tumble when she's who wins
1:30:21Lena car was mugged and she's so mousing
1:30:23all this other stuff and Batman saves
1:30:25her and the Taser still lying there and
1:30:27then she just get this glint in the eye
1:30:29and she teases the unconscious thug and
1:30:33that I do like that little bit because
1:30:35that's that sort of suggest you that
1:30:37yeah she is kind of broken inside and
1:30:40got a lot of repressed anger and stuff
1:30:42like that
1:30:42well i think that the the Catwoman
1:30:44thread for me that the Salina call
1:30:47Catwoman thing for me feels like the
1:30:50weather it's the script or whether it's
1:30:52Burton I don't know but it feels like
1:30:54this
1:30:55first week shaky step towards women
1:30:57having agency because you know she's one
1:31:01of the reasons I think she's she's going
1:31:02to kill Shrek at the end is because you
1:31:04know this is a step she can take to
1:31:07finally get her for revenge on him that
1:31:10one line just killed me
1:31:13um i would love to you know go live in
1:31:15your castle and be your fairy princess i
1:31:17would love that but i would hate myself
1:31:19you know because she sees even that you
1:31:22know is is giving in a way there's
1:31:25there's a really good idea buried in
1:31:29there that we only get glimpses I my
1:31:32note says despite the dick jokes that
1:31:36happened in this uh i think in providing
1:31:39the brew Selena relationship is the best
1:31:41thing in the movie like other the other
1:31:42than other than yeah walkin doing
1:31:44walking because that's weird and quirky
1:31:47and it's like she's got a secret
1:31:49identity he's got a secret identity
1:31:50they're both really messed up they meet
1:31:53when she walks into the office where
1:31:56were walking is convinced that he he
1:31:58killed her the night before and she just
1:32:00walks in and he's like what's going on
1:32:02and then that's also when Bruce Wayne is
1:32:04there and they meet and so that's kind
1:32:05of electric it all that is is pretty
1:32:07cool because that's that's a weird I
1:32:10mean I mean there's your Tim Burton
1:32:12movie right it's like that freak Cesare
1:32:14the heroes like Bruce and selina are
1:32:17kind of freaks but they're also kind of
1:32:20the leads and the heroes here and and it
1:32:23that stuff kind of works and some of the
1:32:25Batman Catwoman stuff works too but
1:32:27that's you know again that then then a
1:32:31monkey delivers a note of regret from
1:32:33Batman removal i remember going into all
1:32:38the press the only press I remember
1:32:40about Batman Returns was talking about
1:32:43Sean Young trying to become yeah right
1:32:45oh they were worried about her like
1:32:48sneaking onto the set at in the car in a
1:32:51costume she made herself and sneaking
1:32:54into Tim Burton's office she was
1:32:56supposed to be the original Vicki Vale
1:32:58and she got hurt and they had to recast
1:33:00basing her so again apparently she
1:33:03really really wanted to be in a movie
1:33:04made me uncomfortable at the time
1:33:06because they were really casting her as
1:33:07crazy Shaw
1:33:08Young who was so desperate for working
1:33:11show up on talk shows and beg for it
1:33:13yeah haha this movie has some
1:33:16interesting things to try to say about
1:33:19misogyny and yet it does it is almost
1:33:24performs the misogyny more than it
1:33:26comments on it man explains it or Batman
1:33:30explains it
1:33:31penguin is awful Max Schreck is awful
1:33:34and Catwoman is sort of this perfect
1:33:39victim kind of character and it's almost
1:33:42like they it's up there with bits of
1:33:45this in the first batman movie with Jack
1:33:48Nicholson's character you know I didn't
1:33:50you look good jack
1:33:51I didn't ask and all this other stuff
1:33:54but they amp it up in this movie as
1:33:57though they're trying to make a point
1:33:58about it i and III don't think they
1:34:02succeed in Michael Keaton's last scene
1:34:05about goodwill toward men and women just
1:34:08doesn't google yeah i think that a last
1:34:12person to do a pass on the screenplay
1:34:14just put in a million stupid quips
1:34:17yeah like towards the last half of the
1:34:19movie it's full of things like I haven't
1:34:21been fed all day eat floor do you have
1:34:25fiber lot of dark yeah my kitty litter
1:34:29and all my notes are so my heart I say
1:34:31that the office I don't think he did the
1:34:33final pass on it but the main credited
1:34:36screenwriter had his previous film was
1:34:39Hudson Hawk which is a much better
1:34:41feeling much better film it's much
1:34:45better than this will all it's so much
1:34:47fun
1:34:48one thing i want to mention about this
1:34:50and then I I'm pretty much done with the
1:34:51things for me to say about the movie
1:34:53because I I don't like haha ok but Jason
1:34:57you haven't even done the plot outline
1:34:58yeah that's not gonna happen i fly i am
1:35:01amused by the scene where do when the
1:35:05penguin is trying to give a speech again
1:35:07another press conference in Tony you
1:35:09have your love hacked your hacked by
1:35:11Batman and Alfred using a CD desi yeah
1:35:14and that makes me laugh because they
1:35:16they turn the tables on him in the end
1:35:18he does a little bit of scratching there
1:35:20and then later in the movie
1:35:21Alfred is like a a freaker with
1:35:24frequency jamming powers who turns the
1:35:28Penguins around and like go Alfred and
1:35:31it's ridiculous an awful and and doesn't
1:35:33fit but it's also funny and the
1:35:35culmination of that Batman shows up and
1:35:38he's got his bat remote that controls
1:35:40the Penguins and the penguin gets the
1:35:43remote from him and then presses the
1:35:45button
1:35:46yeah which blows everything up and it's
1:35:48like I don't I don't
1:35:49yeah why is I think it was the things
1:35:52listed it was it's like a homing thing
1:35:54and that whoever presses the button it's
1:35:56going to blow up that thing and then and
1:35:58so Batman's just tricking the penguin
1:36:00into taking jason your season tech
1:36:02journalists is that how buttons work
1:36:05yep that's how it works
1:36:09it's a red button Tony red button that
1:36:11means things explode if you push it come
1:36:12on
1:36:13ok thankyou standards the iso standard
1:36:16for buttons i would like to briefly call
1:36:18out three things in the movie that i
1:36:20have a comment about if that's ok 1 i'd
1:36:24like the way the video says no just give
1:36:27you a splitting headache and the way
1:36:29Christopher Walken sounds kind of like
1:36:31he's apologizing when he says it's not
1:36:33working think that was a weird scene
1:36:37that I enjoyed a weird scene i did not
1:36:39enjoy is when Catwoman is skipping rope
1:36:43with her bullwhip which feels like
1:36:46somebody thought that would look cool
1:36:47and then it didn't and finally Batman
1:36:51totally straps of dynamite with henchmen
1:36:53and blow the money we don't we don't see
1:36:55that he's fine
1:36:56yeah I mean we talked about him not
1:36:58killing people he kills he's he's fine
1:37:00he's fine the best no circles artery
1:37:03Tony you're in denial here Batman of
1:37:06these two movies is a cold-blooded
1:37:09murderer straight from detective comics
1:37:1227 days you have to admit it he's bad
1:37:16just you just band-aid over that he's
1:37:19fine
1:37:21I have an important equation solution I
1:37:24have a very important question here
1:37:25please
1:37:26where the hell did the red triangle
1:37:29circus gang get the plans for the
1:37:31Batmobile yeah I'm just as a pretty big
1:37:33claw they broke into
1:37:35DMP let's say that pedia here here here
1:37:39i can head candidate its weak and
1:37:41pathetic there is the scene where they
1:37:43go to the Department of record like this
1:37:45movie yeah they go to the penguin spends
1:37:47an extended period of time in the Gotham
1:37:49Department of records which has a very
1:37:51fancy sign for a Department of records
1:37:53and probably Bruce Wayne is an
1:37:56upstanding citizen and has put the files
1:37:58for the blueprints of the Batmobile he
1:38:00entered them into the public record as
1:38:02you do when you're trying to maintain a
1:38:03secret identity
1:38:04uh-huh and my own area though yeah and
1:38:08we've done
1:38:09yeah tell me how do you think he got the
1:38:11license plate for it straightly ya think
1:38:13I felt a breeze how do people feel to me
1:38:15the worst scene in this movie is when
1:38:17the penguin goes up to his upstairs of
1:38:20his campaign headquarters and him and
1:38:21Catwoman are there and she oh god that
1:38:24is that is the work for me the worst i
1:38:27don't know if that is for you even even
1:38:29not even counting the part which um
1:38:31where she almost it's a bird
1:38:34I am 46 years old and I am still too
1:38:36young to see the penguin and catwoman on
1:38:39that bad
1:38:39I the dialogue and see what makes me
1:38:42deeply uncomfortable and again this is
1:38:44something that was used to sell action
1:38:45figures two children
1:38:47see I don't hurt likes grotesque protest
1:38:49like beautiful grotesques Tony that is
1:38:52that the scene that includes the line
1:38:53that's just the pussy I was looking for
1:38:56yes it was I thought so yeah that's not
1:38:59a good scene or is there other scene
1:39:00where he puts the moves on her and she
1:39:02refuses and he tries to make her fly
1:39:04into the sky on a honor like a parasol
1:39:06helicopter thing also not a good scene
1:39:09mmm nope nope nope i bet you there's
1:39:13some other not a good see ya there are
1:39:15you Jason Jason Jason I know your movies
1:39:18almost done and you have a Batmobile and
1:39:20I even saw you made a new version that
1:39:21it splits into pieces that's great we'll
1:39:23sell a new toy can get one more new toy
1:39:25out of this movie so we can for the kids
1:39:27and for my bank account how about a bad
1:39:29boat just put it in had the batboat yeah
1:39:33okay it's also know that the bats right
1:39:35over here
1:39:36all right I'm good ok alright that's up
1:39:39about this penguin issue to shoot a
1:39:41missile off of its back i had the action
1:39:44figure of that as a kid I did too
1:39:47well I wasn't the kid but I i had that
1:39:49it came in a pack with two penguins one
1:39:50of the Penguins is holding the
1:39:51developers out in a way that I don't
1:39:53know penguins really do the other
1:39:54penguins just standing there they're not
1:39:56really exited was just I like seeing
1:39:59that 40 seconds of paul rubens that was
1:40:01nice
1:40:01yeah yeah the beginning of a penguin
1:40:04penguin parents paul rubens is the
1:40:06Penguins dad in the in that state is
1:40:09born it's just like pee-wee's roving
1:40:11seen yeah well they're both they're both
1:40:13pee-wee's big adventure the mom and the
1:40:16dad are both in pee-wee's big yeah
1:40:18giantess a leader
1:40:19yeah sorry hoe but the site a side note
1:40:22I a pink one in the graveyard kneeling
1:40:27before his parents grave bumping into
1:40:31the wobbly styrofoam grave next-gen just
1:40:36just sell you know Danny DeVito had to
1:40:38deal with a lot of prosthetics with that
1:40:39costume I was their number-one son and
1:40:42they treated me like number two
1:40:43zing somebody gotta pull your outline
1:40:45that somebody got paid to write that
1:40:47line I don't think they should have
1:40:48brought up Vicki Vale in this no no
1:40:52pretend she didn't exist that I won't be
1:40:54sitting there going yeah what happened
1:40:55to her instead it's really sad it's like
1:40:57hey yeah remember that that we were
1:40:59starting a good relationship there no
1:41:01she couldn't take me being Batman
1:41:03no really because I thought you talk
1:41:05that through in the previous movie
1:41:07yeah that that that made me kind of mad
1:41:09but really it's low on my list of
1:41:12grievances so haha sitting down watching
1:41:16it tonight after not having seen it for
1:41:19so long and it's like right away it was
1:41:22just like everything was dialed 215 not
1:41:26just 11 but 15 Gotham City was grimmer
1:41:30know and uglier on all of the grotesque
1:41:34curries of you know whether it's the
1:41:36villains whatever it just everything was
1:41:38just pushed up into this level that had
1:41:40me cringing for most of this movie
1:41:43that's good news the next batman movie
1:41:45is much more colorful yeah yeah but
1:41:47everybody was there huh
1:41:49i I don't understand I don't understand
1:41:52why this movie
1:41:54I why I liked it so much in my memory I
1:41:57I that shall find that well well yeah
1:42:01Michael Keaton but surely but know that
1:42:04the the thing i love about the the
1:42:08original batman movie is that it is
1:42:11weird and I just assumed that Batman
1:42:15Returns was in that same vein with a
1:42:19cooler Batman suit and some other stuff
1:42:22and yeah Michelle Pfeiffer but yeah
1:42:26member this is what this is one of those
1:42:28movies that I really shouldn't have
1:42:30watched again I should have noticed but
1:42:32convince myself that I enjoyed it
1:42:35apologies to glen world yeah yeah yeah
1:42:40well you know Michael Keaton that I'm
1:42:43gonna say a Michael Keaton deserved
1:42:46better that I i really like to be still
1:42:50got ya
1:42:51uh yeah I know I I like the performance
1:42:53in Batman and actually I like what
1:42:55little we see of him as Bruce Wayne in
1:42:58Batman Returns that stuff with Michelle
1:43:00Pfeiffer's he got kicked in the head
1:43:01hard enough and looking out yeah I like
1:43:04that boardroom scene between him and
1:43:05Christopher Walken I want yeah that's
1:43:07that's excellent keep cutting to him in
1:43:09the Batcave is like mm yes language i
1:43:12see no right parents yes and then that's
1:43:15it like wait what is even here it's like
1:43:18oh yeah we should probably show him
1:43:19before they forget what they're watching
1:43:21I'm still in this movie people don't
1:43:22forget I'm Batman
1:43:23I'm hanging out with Robert will now I'm
1:43:28just glad that joel schumacher was able
1:43:32to come and restore dignity to the
1:43:33franchise pieces of mr. Whelan's book is
1:43:38that the history of that man is full of
1:43:40wild over reactions from previous
1:43:42interesting yes I'm not gonna not what I
1:43:45pick up in a future episode we are going
1:43:46to watch the tool to joel schumacher
1:43:49Batman movies and then what we will what
1:43:51do you mean we
1:43:52yeah I didn't sign up for that we and
1:43:56then then we'll have the Nolan movies
1:43:59after that but but for now i would have
1:44:03to say that we have discharged your
1:44:05duties and I am sorry
1:44:08to have made everybody watch batman
1:44:11returns because tony is this in the
1:44:14braces like banned from the treasure
1:44:15Batman or just the church Batman
1:44:17recognize the existence of Batman
1:44:18returned you know do whatever you want
1:44:20people knowing what the pattern where it
1:44:24is a bad memory around the Batman
1:44:25university curriculum Tony that's what i
1:44:27want so far the Batman university
1:44:29curriculum is mainly focused on the
1:44:31batman animated series and word that's
1:44:34what that's where that's that's the
1:44:35foundation of love and respect for
1:44:37Batman is that good right that's why it
1:44:41has such high approval ratings go Batman
1:44:43university so the 1989 Batman's kind of
1:44:46grandfathered and it's like a
1:44:47predecessor of the Batman I I mean there
1:44:50are there are elements of this that show
1:44:52up in batman the animated series like
1:44:53there is an episode called the mechanic
1:44:56about the penguin sabotaging the
1:44:59Batmobile which makes way more sense
1:45:01that the plot point and this one so they
1:45:03think they do borrow things from it but
1:45:05yeah they be the best thing about this
1:45:08movie are the things that gets stolen
1:45:11for the animated series and they leave
1:45:13eighty-five percent of the rocks behind
1:45:15so yeah stripped for parts
1:45:18yep i would rather had this movie been
1:45:21Christopher Walken as Max Schreck doing
1:45:25evil things that have to be countered by
1:45:28Bruce Wayne and Batman that would have
1:45:30been a way better movie i would rather
1:45:32this movie were Christopher walk in as
1:45:34Max Schreck in notion rocky yeah yeah
1:45:38but I would've been fine whatever
1:45:40christopher walken that's fine it's
1:45:42christopher rot walking does lots of
1:45:44weird stuff while Bruce Wayne and and
1:45:48Selena Kyle go out on a date
1:45:49now you have a great Tim Burton was just
1:45:51like really angry that he hadn't didn't
1:45:53have the idea to use the circus gang in
1:45:55the Joker movie and so is like I don't
1:45:57know they're here
1:45:58it was like white why are you guys in
1:46:00this movie itself no no
1:46:02well because Robin was originally gonna
1:46:03be okay yeah it's a mess
1:46:06I like what I like at the end when
1:46:08there's going to be the big fight and
1:46:09they all just leave and I was like it's
1:46:11like conservation of bad guys because of
1:46:13the big fight with the Joker they're all
1:46:15the bad guys that showed up from are so
1:46:17it's like it was evening out there
1:46:19there's their henchmen that didn't make
1:46:20any sense to be there
1:46:21in that movie and the henchmen that do
1:46:23make sense to be here just disappear in
1:46:24this one I'm okay with it comes and does
1:46:26nothing but get shots a bluefish a blue
1:46:29and zhu tou at the end of this one blue
1:46:31pursue mhm
1:46:34you know Edward with right after this
1:46:35movie I wonder if tim burton was
1:46:37thinking i need to remind myself that
1:46:40it's important to love movies yeah yeah
1:46:42yeah and that's that's a good movie
1:46:45I'm like that movie I I I feel for tim
1:46:48burton's is best although I complain
1:46:49about tim burton because i don't like is
1:46:51I don't really like his work but i will
1:46:53say i can't imagine that this was a
1:46:57particularly fulfilling film for him
1:46:59I'm sure was more fulfilling than the
1:47:01first Batman it feels more like stuff
1:47:04that's up his alley
1:47:05but still I'm not sure this is the kind
1:47:07of thing that is really his bag so now
1:47:11the movie before this between the Batman
1:47:13movies with edward scissorhands which is
1:47:15pure tim burton saying there you go then
1:47:17he went out to the paycheck and then you
1:47:19go and then he went made wood right so
1:47:22that's what you do not like the paycheck
1:47:23and then you go making a passion project
1:47:24instead
1:47:25Hey look on the right side you got to
1:47:27see Danny DeVito just going to town on a
1:47:29raw fish so that's an experience you can
1:47:31never unsee
1:47:32I saw the fifth season of taxi I've seen
1:47:35that i want to say although i did not
1:47:38enjoy Danny DeVito's performance I
1:47:41appreciate how hard he went for it
1:47:44I think you know what you're worried
1:47:46about getting like that at all
1:47:47good for him pilot yeah I was okay with
1:47:50it i mean i forgot that it was Danny
1:47:51DeVito a lot which which says something
1:47:53for ya me too
1:47:56yeah i'm willing to give him a lot of
1:47:57credit for that he is disgusting an
1:48:00awful and violence but he's got weird
1:48:01prosthetics and he's actually acting and
1:48:04yeah yeah and it's not just like being
1:48:06Danny DeVito he's not yeah by the guys
1:48:09knows what more do you want
1:48:10well that guy should see that how do you
1:48:12really i like how long they left it yeah
1:48:15he says they know well it could be worse
1:48:17at least my nose is gushing blood
1:48:19there's a long pause the guys like that
1:48:22was yeah what he meant by
1:48:24that I'm gonna ask him what he meant oh
1:48:27god my nose
1:48:28that's right by some toys kids is moving
1:48:31regarding the fights off another guy's
1:48:32nose buy some toys
1:48:34Oh God 1992 never come back never
1:48:40all right we're gonna wrap it up that
1:48:41the thus ends this edition of our
1:48:43check-ins with Batman that are
1:48:45affiliated it's like extension course
1:48:47for Batman university I'd like to thank
1:48:49my guests for being here and watching
1:48:51some batman movies with me Monty
1:48:53actually thank you for being here
1:48:55I'm still that pen okay chip sudderth
1:48:58i'm grateful that Halle Berry was able
1:49:00to restore dignity capital magnifying
1:49:03device David Laura I'm I'm gonna go off
1:49:09and reboot the Hudson Hawk Cinematic
1:49:10Universe right okay you can use that
1:49:13list is on the phone already Shannon
1:49:15subject thank you
1:49:16knowing that I never have to watch
1:49:17batman returns again I feel ever so much
1:49:19young year and Tony sindelar I think you
1:49:23were the king of the wicker people
1:49:25goodbye nerds and thanks everybody for
1:49:28listening to be uncomfortable I've been
1:49:30your host Jason smell but really I'm
1:49:33Batman
1:49:35[Music]
1:49:50[Music]