Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade and it's episode number 67.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is kindly brought to you by lindel.com, Warby Parker, and GoToMeeting.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Myke, we're two-thirds of the way through to episode 100 now.

00:00:24 ◼   ► That's pretty crazy to think.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:00:27 ◼   ► What I always find weird when I start up the documents for this show is the numbers. So

00:00:33 ◼   ► we're on episode 67, but Connected and Analog and stuff like the shows that were the originals,

00:00:39 ◼   ► they're on like episodes 69 and 70, which just doesn't seem right to me because it didn't

00:00:45 ◼   ► feel like this show came around like two weeks after Relay launched, but obviously it did.

00:00:50 ◼   ► Well, I mean, on one level it did, but on another level it really didn't because those

00:00:55 ◼   ► shows are largely continuations of shows on 5x5, right, or even previous, and the numbering

00:01:01 ◼   ► and names changed, but you know, they're kind of—your mental model of connected goes back

00:01:06 ◼   ► to the prompt, right? So there's that. And then also you were spent the summer planning

00:01:12 ◼   ► those other shows to be on relay, right? And the upgrade happened on a faster timeframe

00:01:19 ◼   ► because of me leaving IDG.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Yep, it's just crazy to me to think that we are only two weeks old and this show appeared.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:26 ◼   ► It's kind of nice to think that.

00:01:28 ◼   ► That was, that was, that was pretty cool.

00:01:30 ◼   ► Meanwhile I posted episode 276 of The Incomparable this weekend, like how is that possible that

00:01:35 ◼   ► the number is that large?

00:01:37 ◼   ► That is a huge number.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a lot of, that's a lot of episodes.

00:01:42 ◼   ► I don't even know what you do at episode 300.

00:01:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

00:01:48 ◼   ► What you probably won't do is any follow up.

00:01:50 ◼   ► But we do that on this show.

00:01:52 ◼   ► We do.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Jason, it turns out people do indeed use Launchpad.

00:01:56 ◼   ► We were getting a lot of feedback about this and I don't remember it ever being brought

00:01:59 ◼   ► up.

00:02:00 ◼   ► No.

00:02:01 ◼   ► Now, Launchpad, which I mentioned that I thought nobody used, which, okay, so I'll say, let

00:02:09 ◼   ► me say something about hyperbole, which is sometimes you say things that are not, you

00:02:12 ◼   ► don't mean them literally, you mean that it feels that way and it's sort of that way.

00:02:18 ◼   ► My feeling is that, I'll rephrase this, I don't think Launchpad is a feature that is

00:02:22 ◼   ► used to the extent that perhaps Apple anticipated. And I'm not convinced, and maybe Apple has

00:02:27 ◼   ► numbers that back this up, I'm not convinced that it's a necessary feature. But at the

00:02:33 ◼   ► same time as we talked about last week, just because a feature isn't used by a lot of people,

00:02:37 ◼   ► you don't necessarily take it out. Maybe you don't show it a lot of love, but you just

00:02:40 ◼   ► sort of leave it there, and it's there for the people who want it. Now, of course, when

00:02:44 ◼   ► you say, "I don't think anybody or almost anybody uses a feature," what you're going

00:02:48 ◼   ► to hear from is everybody who uses it because they are offended that you suggest that they

00:02:53 ◼   ► don't exist, which is fair enough. So I did hear from people who use the LaunchPad. The

00:02:59 ◼   ► joke that I could make here is that I've heard from everybody who uses the LaunchPad. They're

00:03:03 ◼   ► like eight of them, but they are a representative sample of a much larger group. So I guess

00:03:09 ◼   ► what this tells me is a few things. One is not everybody is navigating via the keyboard.

00:03:15 ◼   ► Spotlight. So Spotlight is something that came up too because you can find apps very

00:03:20 ◼   ► quickly in Spotlight. And over the years Apple has actually done a really good job of getting

00:03:25 ◼   ► the Spotlight index to favor apps. And in Yosemite and El Capitan, Spotlight immediately

00:03:33 ◼   ► will suggest an app when you start typing. And if you hit return, it will, it's like

00:03:38 ◼   ► as you're typing, it's auto-filling and displaying the icon and saying, "This is the app I think

00:03:42 ◼   ► you want," and if you hit return, that app launches. And I heard from some people who

00:03:46 ◼   ► said they thought the Spotlight was too slow, and I would say if you're using an older version

00:03:50 ◼   ► of OS X, that might be true. If you're using a newer version of OS X, you might want to

00:03:54 ◼   ► try it again because Apple spent the last... I think the Yosemite and the previous update,

00:04:02 ◼   ► they put a lot of effort into getting app launching faster on Spotlight. And Spotlight

00:04:08 ◼   ► does take a while sometimes to kind of chunk around and get like 20 things displayed for

00:04:15 ◼   ► you, but the app display is supposed to happen very fast. On my computer it happens basically

00:04:19 ◼   ► instantaneously. So, what this is interesting is I heard from some people who said they

00:04:25 ◼   ► use Launchpad because they open Launchpad using a mouse, usually it's a mouse gesture,

00:04:33 ◼   ► and then they type the name of the app they want because it defaults to the keyboard when

00:04:39 ◼   ► Launchpad opens is in the search box and you can search for an app. I guess that's no different

00:04:47 ◼   ► other than the visual thing of having the curtain drop down and all those apps there.

00:04:51 ◼   ► I guess that's not really much different than doing a Spotlight search. They're probably

00:04:58 ◼   ► about just as fast. And this one has a little less noise in the sense that it isn't trying

00:05:03 ◼   ► to show you other things too. It's only trying to show you apps. I'm not entirely convinced

00:05:08 ◼   ► that that's actually a more efficient way of doing it than just using Spotlight, but

00:05:12 ◼   ► there it is. And then the other aspect of this is, I think if you're a person who really

00:05:18 ◼   ► uses your computer and thinks visually and spatially, Launchpad has value because you

00:05:26 ◼   ► know where your apps are. So I heard from a few people, Lister Jeff is a good example,

00:05:31 ◼   ► he said, "I can arrange all of my app icons the way I want. This makes it easier for me

00:05:36 ◼   ► to find them." The idea that you've got some apps in the dock and then you've got Launchpad

00:05:39 ◼   ► in the dock, and if the app you want is not one of your go-to dock apps, you click Launchpad

00:05:44 ◼   ► and you get that grid and you know where that app is that you want. You don't have too many

00:05:48 ◼   ► apps, or too many apps on page one of Launchpad. And it's a nice visual way to find an app.

00:05:54 ◼   ► So that, and the idea there is that you may not be the kind of person for whom hitting

00:06:00 ◼   ► command space and typing the first three letters of the app name and hitting return is something

00:06:04 ◼   ► that you're ever going to internalize, but, you know, click and then click in two different

00:06:10 ◼   ► spaces on your screen totally works for you. And that's, you know, different people have

00:06:15 ◼   ► different pathways. So I thought that was a really interesting way of going about it.

00:06:20 ◼   ► And then I also heard from some people, one other common bond in people using Launchpad

00:06:23 ◼   ► is, it was not that length of time using the Mac, because I heard from people who are even

00:06:30 ◼   ► classic Mac users who use Launchpad, and I heard from people who migrated over. But I

00:06:34 ◼   ► did hear a surprising number of people who migrated from Linux or Windows or both, who

00:06:38 ◼   ► said that they like it because it's a way to organize your programs that don't fit in

00:06:44 ◼   ► the dock, and I think that also suggests a lack of comfort with Spotlight and a lack

00:06:48 ◼   ► of comfort with the Finder. And that's not unreasonable. I wonder sometimes if Launchpad

00:06:54 ◼   ► wouldn't be better if it was purely, like visually an extension of the dock, like when

00:07:00 ◼   ► you click the Launchpad in the dock, it just flipped out a table of, you know, a tray of

00:07:05 ◼   ► apps.

00:07:06 ◼   ► -Yeah, like a drawer slides out or something, you know.

00:07:08 ◼   ► -Instead of the curtain coming down and, you know, your entire screen is now covered with

00:07:14 ◼   ► this app launcher. But just metaphorically I wonder if that would be better.

00:07:18 ◼   ► So I think that Launchpad is fundamentally a better way to organize and find your apps

00:07:22 ◼   ► than the Finder, in my opinion. The Finder just doesn't really gel for me, like as

00:07:28 ◼   ► you open a folder to find apps. I just feel like now my iOS idea of apps has completely

00:07:34 ◼   ► changed the way that I think about apps on the Mac. But I am completely a command space

00:07:39 ◼   ► Person, but I have Alfred installed. I really like Alfred

00:07:43 ◼   ► It does a couple of extra things that I like but one of my main things is it learns from me

00:07:48 ◼   ► And I'm sure spotlight does a bit of this, but I'm now invested in Alfred

00:07:54 ◼   ► It knows my little habits

00:07:55 ◼   ► It knows that I always type address book when I need contacts and gives me the right one

00:08:00 ◼   ► You know like little things like that and and so I really love it for that. Yeah, I use launch bar, but same point

00:08:06 ◼   ► Same point.

00:08:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:08 ◼   ► And so that's it.

00:08:09 ◼   ► But I was really interested the other day.

00:08:12 ◼   ► Me and my girlfriend were doing something on her Mac and she used Spotlight to launch

00:08:17 ◼   ► an app, which really surprised me because she's a relatively new Mac user and I don't

00:08:23 ◼   ► know why she did it, but I'm pleased that she did.

00:08:27 ◼   ► Because it shows that she's found something and worked out how to do it, which I think

00:08:30 ◼   ► is really cool.

00:08:32 ◼   ► Because fundamentally launching apps on the Mac is not as easy as launching apps on iOS.

00:08:38 ◼   ► So that's why Launchpad exists, but it's good that Spotlight has integrated that as well.

00:08:43 ◼   ► See I think launching apps on the Mac is just as easy as it is on iOS because you either

00:08:49 ◼   ► see it or you type it.

00:08:52 ◼   ► Well it's just as easy when you know you have to find it.

00:08:56 ◼   ► Like on the iPhone or on the iPad they're right there looking at you at all times when

00:09:02 ◼   ► you're on the home screen.

00:09:03 ◼   ► That's true.

00:09:04 ◼   ► Although, you know, you've got the big dock on the Mac.

00:09:07 ◼   ► It's bigger.

00:09:08 ◼   ► I mean, I've used sort of like the dock as like page one of the home screen.

00:09:13 ◼   ► I think those are kind of comparable where it's like these are the apps that I really

00:09:16 ◼   ► want in my face all the time.

00:09:18 ◼   ► And then everything else, you can have other pages of apps, although generally now if I

00:09:23 ◼   ► don't see it, I just search for it.

00:09:24 ◼   ► I don't, you know, I've come to the, this may actually be the CGP Grey school of thought,

00:09:31 ◼   ► right, which is, if you can't see it, it might as well just be in a folder because

00:09:35 ◼   ► you're just going to search for it and you don't need eight, I don't have like eight

00:09:38 ◼   ► pages of apps anymore.

00:09:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I search. I mean, I have everything filed away and there's still some stuff that

00:09:45 ◼   ► I just know where it is on my second screen, so I just go and grab it. But the majority

00:09:49 ◼   ► of the time I'm using Spotlight and iOS to launch applications in the same way.

00:09:53 ◼   ► So that's the thing that makes me stop about Launchpad is that you are bringing it up and

00:10:01 ◼   ► then you're looking for your app and then you're clicking on your app. I agree looking

00:10:04 ◼   ► in the applications folder in the finder, although something I occasionally do, is not

00:10:08 ◼   ► a good way of doing it. But I feel like the dock and spotlight are the primary ways that

00:10:14 ◼   ► Apple expects you to use it. But I think this is a good example of Apple thinking for some

00:10:20 ◼   ► people, especially people who are used to the way that iOS presents apps, having a visual

00:10:24 ◼   ► grid of app icons is a good alternative to typing them. I have some issues with LaunchPad,

00:10:36 ◼   ► but it's not for me. So in the end, I find like it's a little, it's so slavishly attached

00:10:43 ◼   ► to iOS shortcuts that it's kind of hard to manage LaunchPad and move things around. But

00:10:49 ◼   ► at the same time, I think the people who are using it don't have very many apps largely,

00:10:54 ◼   ► they're happy to manage it. So it doesn't work for me, and I think it could be better

00:10:59 ◼   ► perhaps, but I see why it's there. And that was why it was there initially. My larger

00:11:05 ◼   ► point last week was I'm not sure Apple would make Launchpad today. I think Apple today

00:11:10 ◼   ► would say the dock and spotlight is good enough. But there was a time when Apple felt like

00:11:15 ◼   ► it was a high priority to create an iOS home screen-like experience on the Mac, that they

00:11:20 ◼   ► needed to build that feature. And so they did, and it's Launchpad. I just think now

00:11:24 ◼   ► Apple's priorities are different and creating something that is that it apes iOS for an

00:11:32 ◼   ► app launcher is not something they would try. But it's there and people do use it. And it

00:11:37 ◼   ► is absolutely true that different people learn and interact with technology in different

00:11:42 ◼   ► ways. And this is a great example of that, that for some people, even if you can type

00:11:47 ◼   ► the name in Spotlight. They don't want to do it. They either want to type the name in

00:11:50 ◼   ► Launchpad or they just want to click on the thing in Launchpad. And that's something that

00:11:56 ◼   ► we should all remember about computers is just because somebody doesn't do it the way

00:12:00 ◼   ► you do it doesn't mean they're doing it wrong because there are lots of different paths

00:12:04 ◼   ► to get where you want to go. And you may be able to offer something that would be more

00:12:08 ◼   ► efficient but it or you may think it's more efficient for them but it might not be because

00:12:16 ◼   ► different people. It's just like how, you know, people, some people learn by reading

00:12:19 ◼   ► books and some people learn by sitting in a classroom and listening and some people

00:12:23 ◼   ► learn by using their hands in order to do whatever it is they need to learn. Everybody's

00:12:28 ◼   ► got different ways that they learn and that they use technology.

00:12:33 ◼   ► - Speaking of which, Outlook.

00:12:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I threw Outlook for Mac under the bus last week and I should have been nicer

00:12:42 ◼   ► to it. There is a new version, which I have seen and I have on my hard drive and yet when

00:12:46 ◼   ► I was struck at some point I used Outlook and I was surprised at how entourage-y it

00:12:52 ◼   ► still felt, but they did do a new version last year that doesn't look like entourage,

00:12:56 ◼   ► although it's still, I still feel like the weight of history on it at times, but it does

00:13:02 ◼   ► look a lot better. It fits the visual style of Microsoft's modern apps, which I do like.

00:13:07 ◼   ► I enjoy the way that those apps are designed. I think they're very pretty. And I find them

00:13:14 ◼   ► a pleasure to use actually, especially on iOS, but even on the Mac. And I will still

00:13:19 ◼   ► say about Outlook that unless you're using Exchange, Outlook for Mac I think is overkill.

00:13:23 ◼   ► I think it's too much. I think it's kind of just, it's a product that's really designed

00:13:27 ◼   ► for people who are in Microsoft environments and using Exchange servers. And if you are,

00:13:31 ◼   ► then good, you should use it. But I can't really, I'm enjoying using it on iOS and I

00:13:36 ◼   ► I feel that it's a different story on iOS, but on the Mac, I don't think it's something

00:13:40 ◼   ► that I would recommend people use.

00:13:42 ◼   ► It is better than it used to be, I guess, I haven't taken a look at it and whatever

00:13:46 ◼   ► and hearing from people, but it's not like the iOS version. It's not like that. The iOS

00:13:54 ◼   ► version is very simple and very useful and very stripped down to what you need it to

00:13:59 ◼   ► do, but not in like a simple, like it's not dumbed down, but it's stripped down to the

00:14:04 ◼   ► point where you just have the features that you need and I really like it for

00:14:08 ◼   ► that. The desktop version of Outlook is still kind of catered to the PC

00:14:15 ◼   ► environment I guess more and like the corporate environment as opposed to the

00:14:21 ◼   ► iOS environment which the new Outlook apps are on I guess. I started

00:14:26 ◼   ► using mail.app as well as Outlook that's what I've switched to and I've had to

00:14:30 ◼   ► move away from mail.app because for some reason it really doesn't like the

00:14:34 ◼   ► the fact that I use a pen tablet and a magic trackpad for navigation and every

00:14:39 ◼   ► now and then I am hovering over the pen tablet with my pen and I attempt to use

00:14:45 ◼   ► a gesture with the trackpad and then I cannot interact with anything in the

00:14:50 ◼   ► mail app it just locks up everything else in the system is fine but it seems

00:14:54 ◼   ► to get stuck in some gesture somewhere and I can only use the app again by

00:14:59 ◼   ► false quitting it so I have moved away from mail and I'm currently trying air

00:15:03 ◼   ► >> I have seen that on El Capitan in a few places where there are certain circumstances

00:15:12 ◼   ► where something is happening and gestures kill an app where they cause the app to become

00:15:21 ◼   ► unable to recognize gestures or cause the system to be unable to recognize gestures.

00:15:27 ◼   ► And other work, they otherwise work normally, which is really weird, right? Like, "Oh, I

00:15:32 ◼   ► still use the keyboard and the mouse, I just can't use my trackpad gestures anymore. It's

00:15:36 ◼   ► just strange.

00:15:37 ◼   ► I can use them in all other apps, just not this one. I don't know if it's a problem with

00:15:43 ◼   ► male specifically, but it is a problem with OS X. Because sometimes my trackpad doesn't

00:15:48 ◼   ► work with logic, and I have to usually turn my trackpad off and on again for the gestures

00:15:55 ◼   ► to work, the pinch gestures to work, for zooming in and zooming out. Who knows, Jason? Nobody

00:15:59 ◼   ► I will just point out that I have not yet updated this machine to the most current version

00:16:05 ◼   ► of El Capitan.

00:16:06 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:16:07 ◼   ► Just in case that's been fixed.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Do you remember last week there was an Ask Upgrade question that people were saying like

00:16:13 ◼   ► where can I get live wallpapers from?

00:16:16 ◼   ► Yes.

00:16:17 ◼   ► Well, Upgrading and Danny sent in a link to an app.

00:16:21 ◼   ► It's a 79 pence app, which I think is 99 cents, called Live Wallpapers.

00:16:26 ◼   ► it is just a collection of live wallpapers that you can get from the from an app in the

00:16:31 ◼   ► app store with a bunch of different patterns and stuff like that. It hasn't got the best

00:16:36 ◼   ► reviews. I haven't tried it myself but it does exist. So proving that I guess it's possible

00:16:43 ◼   ► but there are some that it seems like people are complaining that it crashes. However it

00:16:47 ◼   ► exists so give it a go at your own risk I suppose.

00:16:51 ◼   ► Yeah interesting.

00:16:52 ◼   ► I have taken a new, I have a picture of my lovely girlfriend as my lock screen image

00:17:00 ◼   ► and it was a great picture that I took of her a couple of years ago that I really loved

00:17:05 ◼   ► and I really wanted a live wallpaper picture of her.

00:17:09 ◼   ► So over the weekend we were away on a family thing and I took a picture of her because

00:17:15 ◼   ► she looked cute in a hat that she was wearing and now I have a live wallpaper picture of

00:17:20 ◼   ► her and I absolutely love it. Have you done this?

00:17:26 ◼   ► No. I've got some. Yeah, I should do it. I need to look because what happens is I just

00:17:32 ◼   ► take the pictures and then I don't think to go back and mark those. So I'll have to look

00:17:39 ◼   ► for that. I've got one of my daughters like jumping up and down when we were taking our

00:17:44 ◼   ► family. Turns out to be our family photo for our holiday card and I've got a live photo

00:17:49 ◼   ► of her that's basically from that, which is kind of cool.

00:17:54 ◼   ► So more and more I am loving that feature. I really do think it's fantastic. It's just

00:17:59 ◼   ► a fun little thing. And it's captured some really cool moments that I've always I wouldn't

00:18:04 ◼   ► have been able to grab. So I like it a lot. Yeah, I just wish that I just wish that there

00:18:08 ◼   ► were more it just needs to be more shareable because it's weird, you know, one off format.

00:18:12 ◼   ► So more shareable in more places is as we were saying last week is that would be nice.

00:18:18 ◼   ► of Abby wrote in about a comment on no command line for classic Mac OS and pointed to something

00:18:25 ◼   ► called MPW. You're going to have to help me with this one.

00:18:27 ◼   ► Yeah, that's the Macintosh Programmer's Workshop. So, Abby wrote in and said, "You're wrong.

00:18:33 ◼   ► There was a command line for the classic Mac OS. It was called MPW." And I know what MPW

00:18:37 ◼   ► is, and we ended up disagreeing on this, and I disagree with listener Abby about this,

00:18:42 ◼   ► but I appreciate the message because what Abhi was saying was MPW was a program you

00:18:50 ◼   ► could install on the Mac and it gave you a command line and you could develop software

00:18:55 ◼   ► and write shell scripts and execute them and it would do things in the file system and

00:18:59 ◼   ► all that kind of thing, like we think of with the terminal app. So I guess the question

00:19:04 ◼   ► is what does "has a command line" mean? Because there were lots of programs for classic Mac

00:19:09 ◼   ► OS that quote-unquote gave you a command line where you could do things like rename, batch

00:19:14 ◼   ► rename or remove files and things like that. And what was really happening is you were

00:19:18 ◼   ► issuing a command and then the command line program would do what you told it to do. And

00:19:24 ◼   ► I guess what I would say is the Unix terminal is fundamentally a part of OS X. And it's

00:19:31 ◼   ► there whether you want it to be there or not. And terminal is just a window into it. You

00:19:35 ◼   ► could actually, depending on your settings, you can telnet in to or SSH into a Mac and

00:19:42 ◼   ► do Unix stuff. And OS 9 didn't work like that. OS 9 had no fundamental part of its

00:19:47 ◼   ► operating system that was a text-based command line. You can install programs that emulated

00:19:53 ◼   ► a command line interface and let you do things, but it's not the same, in my mind, as what

00:19:58 ◼   ► DOS had, which was fundamentally down below there is, or even Windows with the DOS underneath

00:20:04 ◼   ► it, right? With DOS it wasn't down below, that was all there was, but with Windows it

00:20:08 ◼   ► was down beneath it, this command line interface. And that's just not true on OS 9, it didn't

00:20:15 ◼   ► have anything like that. You could run a program that gave you the ability to do stuff that

00:20:19 ◼   ► felt like today's command line, but OS 10 has Unix with a command line interface and

00:20:26 ◼   ► shells and stuff already installed that's part of the base system that are running.

00:20:31 ◼   ► And all the terminal app is doing is giving you a window into that stuff.

00:20:36 ◼   ► And Abhi made one argument that you can't really do anything with the terminal unless

00:20:39 ◼   ► you install Xcode, and that's not true.

00:20:42 ◼   ► That's absolutely not true.

00:20:44 ◼   ► There's lots of things you can do with the OS X terminal without installing Xcode, and

00:20:48 ◼   ► I've done them, many of them.

00:20:50 ◼   ► So I think it's an interesting perspective, even though I'm going to disagree, I think

00:20:54 ◼   ► it's a really interesting perspective because it is true that on one level if you can install

00:20:59 ◼   ► software that lets you type commands and have them executed, then is that not a command

00:21:04 ◼   ► line? But I think it misses the point that OS 9 and before the classic Mac OS had no

00:21:11 ◼   ► fundamental sort of like text-based interface that was sitting there waiting for somebody

00:21:14 ◼   ► to contact it. That's not how it works.

00:21:17 ◼   ► All right, well that one's lost on me. So I tell you what though, if I did want to learn

00:21:23 ◼   ► how to do all of this stuff, do you know where I would go, Jason?

00:21:26 ◼   ► Where would you go?

00:21:27 ◼   ► lynda.com

00:21:28 ◼   ► Ah, that's a great place.

00:21:29 ◼   ► They are the online learning platform

00:21:31 ◼   ► that has over 3,000 on-demand video courses

00:21:33 ◼   ► to help you strengthen your business technology

00:21:36 ◼   ► and creative skills.

00:21:37 ◼   ► You can get yourself a free day,

00:21:39 ◼   ► a free 10-day trial, I should say,

00:21:40 ◼   ► by visiting lynda.com/upgrade.

00:21:43 ◼   ► That's L-Y-N-D-A dot com slash upgrade.

00:21:46 ◼   ► lynda.com has courses on everything.

00:21:49 ◼   ► So, you know, if you wanna learn how to do Xcode stuff,

00:21:51 ◼   ► if you wanna learn terminal stuff,

00:21:52 ◼   ► you're gonna be able to find all kinds of topics

00:21:55 ◼   ► subjects and courses like that over at lynda.com because they're there to help you solve problems,

00:22:00 ◼   ► they're there to help you feed your curious mind, help you tackle those tasks you've been putting

00:22:06 ◼   ► off for ages. We are approaching a new year. New year means new resolutions and so it's the perfect

00:22:13 ◼   ► time to go to lynda.com, watch their videos, learn from top experts and put into practice the thing

00:22:18 ◼   ► that you have been putting off. Maybe you want to learn how to use IFTTT, maybe you really want to

00:22:24 ◼   ► learn how to go paperless and finally get rid of that stack of bills sitting on your desk.

00:22:30 ◼   ► Whatever it is, go to lynda.com. You can stream any of these thousands of video courses on demand.

00:22:35 ◼   ► You can learn at your own schedule, at your own pace and you can even watch and download courses

00:22:40 ◼   ► to your android or ios device to learn on the go. When you're watching on the desktop you can

00:22:44 ◼   ► browse each of their course transcripts, you can follow along, search for an answer within them

00:22:49 ◼   ► and maybe click that point and go straight to that point in the video. You can even take notes

00:22:53 ◼   ► on lynda.com so you can return to them later and refer to what you were thinking when you

00:22:58 ◼   ► were watching that fantastic video. You're also able to share with friends playlists

00:23:02 ◼   ► that you create so you can put your own course transcripts together and you can share with

00:23:06 ◼   ► friends and colleagues so they can learn along with you. Your lynda.com membership will give

00:23:11 ◼   ► you unlimited access to training on hundreds of topics for one flat rate. Whether you're

00:23:15 ◼   ► looking to become an industry expert, you're passionate about a hobby or just looking to

00:23:19 ◼   ► learn something new, go and visit lynda.com/upgrade, sign up for your free 10 day trial and start

00:23:26 ◼   ► learning some new stuff today. Thank you so much lynda.com for their support of this show

00:23:31 ◼   ► and Relay FM. So you did exactly what I expected you would do and you went ahead and bought

00:23:40 ◼   ► an iPad Pro in between these two episodes. Why is that?

00:23:45 ◼   ► So, this weekend we went to my sister-in-law's house. My sister-in-law, my wife's sister,

00:23:51 ◼   ► used to... She was a lawyer. She went to law school and then went to a firm and ended up at this

00:24:00 ◼   ► firm in New York City. And I visited her there earlier this year. And she did a career change

00:24:08 ◼   ► and moved to California, back to California, because they're there, they grew up in LA,

00:24:14 ◼   ► and they're in the Central Valley now, and she's a judge. And her, her swearing in as a federal

00:24:20 ◼   ► magistrate judge was this weekend, so, or it was Friday. So we went over, so we went there and

00:24:25 ◼   ► we're, it was really nice. It was kind of like a cross between a family reunion and a, I think

00:24:31 ◼   ► it was most like, it's like a wedding, like a wedding reception, because it was all parts of

00:24:37 ◼   ► of the family. It was really nice. It was a great... They do a ceremony. They do it

00:24:42 ◼   ► right too. Like all the judges in the federal courthouse are in this session. It's like

00:24:46 ◼   ► in the ceremonial courtroom where all the judges are because usually there's like one

00:24:51 ◼   ► judge per courtroom. You don't need like 10 of them. It was really a great ceremony. So

00:24:56 ◼   ► we're there for the weekend and I didn't bring my laptop with me. So I did a bunch of stuff

00:25:01 ◼   ► this weekend. I added an episode of The Incomparable with Ferrite on the iPad Pro again this weekend,

00:25:06 ◼   ► which I can talk about a little bit later,

00:25:09 ◼   ► 'cause that was a lot of fun.

00:25:10 ◼   ► So I'm using it for the weekend thinking,

00:25:12 ◼   ► again, as I have all along,

00:25:14 ◼   ► this is a product I never expected to like this much.

00:25:16 ◼   ► And it's literally just been the weeks with it

00:25:19 ◼   ► of continuing to come back to it and not put it down

00:25:22 ◼   ► and not go back to the iPad Air.

00:25:24 ◼   ► That made me think, this is, as we said last week,

00:25:26 ◼   ► this is probably something I should buy.

00:25:28 ◼   ► So we're sitting at my sister-in-law's dining room table

00:25:31 ◼   ► talking and there's people all around,

00:25:33 ◼   ► it's a Saturday night and some of the people have left

00:25:36 ◼   ► like the party is kind of winding down because we did a big party on Saturday. I'm swearing

00:25:41 ◼   ► it was Friday afternoon. We did a party on Saturday at their house. And we're talking

00:25:46 ◼   ► and there's a few of us talking and I had the iPad Pro out and somebody noticed it and

00:25:52 ◼   ► asked me about it so I picked it up and I showed them some stuff. And I said to my wife,

00:25:57 ◼   ► "Yeah, I think I'm probably going to buy one." They were asking, "Do you like it?" I'm like,

00:26:02 ◼   ► this is the Apple one, but I think I'm going to buy one. And my wife, ever the sensible

00:26:06 ◼   ► person said, "Well, if you're going to buy it, you should buy it before the end of the

00:26:10 ◼   ► year because tax-wise, you know, it works better that way. Like the business buys it

00:26:19 ◼   ► and then that's less of a profit for the business. It's less income for me. There's some good

00:26:25 ◼   ► reasons to spend your money this year rather than next year." So I'm like, "All right."

00:26:31 ◼   ► know, two minutes later it was bought because I didn't need any more reasons. That was a

00:26:39 ◼   ► good enough reason for me. So I immediately bought the iPad. So it's coming.

00:26:44 ◼   ► Similar kind of experience. Whilst that family get together of mine this weekend, I took

00:26:51 ◼   ► the iPad Pro with me because my uncle is, he loves all this kind of stuff as well. And

00:26:57 ◼   ► he buys most of these things. But there are some times I'll show him something because

00:27:00 ◼   ► he hasn't bought it yet and then he decides if he wants it. This is like what happened

00:27:04 ◼   ► with the Apple Watch, he saw mine and then went ahead and bought one. So I took the iPad

00:27:08 ◼   ► Pro to him and he was saying to me that he was convinced that he wasn't going to get

00:27:12 ◼   ► one but after a little demo he's now rethinking that idea. But there was a really funny moment

00:27:17 ◼   ► where we were sitting down, we kind of, because we don't all get to see each other over the

00:27:23 ◼   ► couple of days of Christmas, so we have a big kind of family Christmas dinner a couple

00:27:28 ◼   ► of weeks before, before everybody goes off in their own separate directions to do whatever

00:27:31 ◼   ► it is that they're doing over the holidays. So we basically had mini Christmas and we

00:27:37 ◼   ► were trying to play music, my uncle was trying to play music and he was trying to plug in

00:27:41 ◼   ► his iPhone into his stereo, but the cable, you know, the 3.5 millimeter cable wasn't

00:27:47 ◼   ► wasn't working. Maybe that's why they should get rid of them, Jason, but we'll talk about

00:27:51 ◼   ► that another day. And the Bluetooth thing that he was trying to use, he couldn't connect

00:27:56 ◼   ► to it so I was like well let me just go get the iPad Pro and the speakers were so loud

00:28:00 ◼   ► right that I was able to use it as the kind of the jukebox and put on my great Christmas

00:28:07 ◼   ► music choices for everybody to listen to. So again I had one of those scenarios where

00:28:13 ◼   ► people were kind of very interested in this product and it served an interesting and slightly

00:28:19 ◼   ► unexpected purpose because it is incredible. I love my iPad Pro.

00:28:25 ◼   ► Yeah, so going this weekend, I had that moment of like, "All right, and I'm going to bring

00:28:31 ◼   ► a laptop." And what I found more than anything else about this iPad Pro is that it has made

00:28:35 ◼   ► me cease using my MacBook Air. Because I have the iMac at the desk, I do my Mac stuff at

00:28:43 ◼   ► the desk. And then I've got this MacBook Air that I used to use a lot. I used to use it

00:28:49 ◼   ► all the time. And then I used it a lot, but I had the iPad mini and then the Air 2. And

00:28:55 ◼   ► so I used it less. And with the iPad Pro, I use it none. I use it not at all. And I

00:29:03 ◼   ► like that. That means that when I'm out here, I'm working on the Mac, and when I'm in the

00:29:06 ◼   ► house or I'm traveling, I'm not. But could I do it traveling? Could I do it? And I decided

00:29:12 ◼   ► I was going to try it. I had all the files for this weekend's incomparable. I just needed

00:29:15 ◼   ► to copy them over to the iPad Pro. I had done an episode on Ferrite before, so I could probably

00:29:20 ◼   ► do that again. And so I did. The only adjustment I made, and Ferrite, there was just an idea

00:29:25 ◼   ► an update, it lets you export lossless now, which is nice. And a couple of new things.

00:29:31 ◼   ► There are a couple more things they need to do. I still need to use a Bluetooth keyboard

00:29:33 ◼   ► with it for now because it takes too long to delete items using the touch screen and

00:29:40 ◼   ► the play/pause control is not conveniently located. So I sit there with like... So what

00:29:48 ◼   ► I did this time is rather than having it be the traditional sort of keyboard in front

00:29:51 ◼   ► of you and then screen out because there's so much of editing audio with ferrite that

00:29:55 ◼   ► is touch-based that I was getting the zombie arms that Apple talks about for the Mac where

00:30:02 ◼   ► you're sitting there using a touch screen device and you keep having to raise your hands

00:30:06 ◼   ► up and use the touch screen and how it's kind of unpleasant. And I was getting that and

00:30:10 ◼   ► I was thinking, "This is not fun," because actually touching the screen and editing audio

00:30:16 ◼   ► with touch is kind of great. It feels really great. So I took the iPad and I laid it flat

00:30:23 ◼   ► on that dining room table, and I had my Bluetooth keyboard next to me, like off to the left,

00:30:29 ◼   ► and I edited like that. So everything was flat on the table, and so they were side by

00:30:36 ◼   ► side, and the keyboard was turned a little bit, so it was a little bit angled and a little

00:30:40 ◼   ► bit closer, and that was fantastic. That was actually a really great experience. I had

00:30:45 ◼   ► a lot of fun editing that podcast. So, yeah, it's basically replaced. Again, you can't

00:30:53 ◼   ► really record podcasts on iOS devices now, so it doesn't, if I have to record, it gets

00:30:57 ◼   ► much more complicated. But just taking it away to do some editing, I could totally do

00:31:01 ◼   ► it, and that's exciting. So yeah, it's funny. It is, I heard from some people when I said

00:31:06 ◼   ► that I, over the weekend that I bought it, saying, "Well, of course, you know, that's

00:31:09 ◼   ► what you do is buy all the Apple stuff." It's not true. I don't buy all the Apple stuff.

00:31:13 ◼   ► I buy very specific.

00:31:14 ◼   ► - You get most of it, but you don't buy it all.

00:31:17 ◼   ► - And then I send it back, right, exactly right.

00:31:19 ◼   ► And I didn't buy an iPad 6 Plus.

00:31:22 ◼   ► But what has happened with the iPad

00:31:24 ◼   ► is that I've gone over the course of a year

00:31:26 ◼   ► from the iPad mini to the iPad Pro.

00:31:28 ◼   ► And I did not expect that to happen.

00:31:30 ◼   ► And I fully expected to ship the iPad Pro back

00:31:32 ◼   ► and be done with it.

00:31:33 ◼   ► And this has been a surprise.

00:31:35 ◼   ► So I think that's kind of interesting.

00:31:37 ◼   ► - I still haven't tried Ferrite.

00:31:39 ◼   ► I've downloaded it, I've opened it,

00:31:42 ◼   ► but I haven't really done anything with it yet.

00:31:45 ◼   ► I feel like I should, but I have to say,

00:31:47 ◼   ► even though I know it's really good,

00:31:49 ◼   ► I've heard great things,

00:31:50 ◼   ► I'm just a little bit nervous of it.

00:31:52 ◼   ► That's all.

00:31:53 ◼   ► I will do it eventually,

00:31:55 ◼   ► like I will have some time and I'll give it a go,

00:31:58 ◼   ► just because I trust your opinion on these things,

00:32:00 ◼   ► as always.

00:32:01 ◼   ► So if you really like it and it's working for you,

00:32:04 ◼   ► and I've listened to the episode you've edited on it,

00:32:06 ◼   ► and wouldn't have known, right?

00:32:08 ◼   ► Like I listened to the last incomparable today.

00:32:11 ◼   ► I had no idea, it didn't sound bad, I had no idea you were doing anything different.

00:32:14 ◼   ► The Star Wars anticipation episode?

00:32:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:18 ◼   ► I wouldn't have known.

00:32:19 ◼   ► So, it obviously does the job in a great way.

00:32:22 ◼   ► So I'll talk to you about it, because I have a few questions but they're not really worth

00:32:26 ◼   ► it for the show, and then maybe I'll give it a go and let people know what I think about

00:32:30 ◼   ► it later on.

00:32:31 ◼   ► But I guess, you know, if you're using it and you're happy with it, that's great.

00:32:34 ◼   ► But talking about apps, I've seen the first kind of crop of professional focused apps

00:32:40 ◼   ► over the last week, updated to take advantage of specific iPad Pro features, which is really

00:32:47 ◼   ► interesting. So DJ Pro and Pixelmator have both been updated with the iPad Pro in mind.

00:32:53 ◼   ► Yeah, the DJ Pro from Algoriddim is pretty crazy because it is taking advantage of the

00:33:01 ◼   ► size of the screen and also the power of the processor. You can do like two 4K videos.

00:33:05 ◼   ► I mean, I have to admit, I just don't get the DJ thing, but I can tell you about the

00:33:10 ◼   ► tech specs, like two 4K videos at once, a whole bunch of different audio streams. Like,

00:33:15 ◼   ► what it is capable of doing is kind of amazing. And it might be the first app I've seen that

00:33:20 ◼   ► I can say it's taking advantage of the fact that the iPad Pro has all that power. I suspect

00:33:25 ◼   ► that most of the time the iPad Pro is not being put to the test. When I export, maybe

00:33:31 ◼   ► when I'm using ferrite and I've got multiple audio streams, yeah, I suppose it's really

00:33:36 ◼   ► taking advantage of all the memory and the processor power of the iPad Pro, but DJ totally,

00:33:43 ◼   ► it's crazy what it can do. And Pixelmator did an update similarly to add some iPad Pro

00:33:49 ◼   ► features. So they're coming. This is a key part of the iPad Pro being successful is that

00:33:56 ◼   ► apps need to get updated to support it otherwise, because using scaled up apps on the iPad Pro

00:34:00 ◼   ► stinks. I was using Dropbox and that was so painful I can see now after this weekend I

00:34:05 ◼   ► know why Federico is so mad about Dropbox lagging because not only is that a scaled

00:34:09 ◼   ► up iPad Pro app but I couldn't get it in split view either.

00:34:15 ◼   ► Yeah for Dropbox I don't care that it's scaled up because I'm not writing in it or anything

00:34:21 ◼   ► it doesn't look great but I can deal with it. But the fact that I can't access it in

00:34:25 ◼   ► split view is really frustrating to me. Yeah, or slide over, it's super frustrating.

00:34:31 ◼   ► But I saw an app updated with something that's really interesting to me. So Geometry Wars

00:34:36 ◼   ► 3, Geometry Wars is an age old game, it's been rebooted and updated so many times. It's

00:34:41 ◼   ► still fantastic by the way, if you've never played Geometry Wars or if you've never played

00:34:45 ◼   ► it on iOS. But they have updated for an iPad Pro only local multiplayer. So basically what

00:34:52 ◼   ► What you do is each of you hold the iPad, right, or you have it in front of you, kind

00:34:59 ◼   ► of in what would be portrait orientation, and you can both put your two thumbs on the

00:35:03 ◼   ► screen and use the kind of the dual analog stick type movement.

00:35:07 ◼   ► And there are two characters, two spaceships, we call them, flying around and destroying

00:35:11 ◼   ► the enemies.

00:35:12 ◼   ► It's difficult to explain because the app is so kind of like just artistic in its way.

00:35:18 ◼   ► isn't really a story but you just fly around shooting other spaceships in a geometric world.

00:35:25 ◼   ► It's awesome. And it's only on the iPad Pro. And it makes sense because you need the space

00:35:30 ◼   ► for two people to be able to both have both hands on the thing. But it's really interesting.

00:35:37 ◼   ► I don't know if a lot of games will add this and I think it would work for a lot of games

00:35:41 ◼   ► but I think it's super cool that it exists. Cool. So that's something for you. It was

00:35:48 ◼   ► It caught my attention because there aren't a lot of apps that are doing things that are

00:35:55 ◼   ► exclusive to the iPad Pro.

00:35:58 ◼   ► They're maybe doing things that are like, "Oh, it's a bit better here," or "We have

00:36:02 ◼   ► a bit more space here," but this is like, you actually can't play co-op multiplayer

00:36:06 ◼   ► on any other device.

00:36:08 ◼   ► So I like that a lot.

00:36:09 ◼   ► That makes sense.

00:36:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I'll check it out.

00:36:12 ◼   ► So I know we're talking a lot about the iPad Pro, and I feel like I'm talking about it

00:36:16 ◼   ► or more and more shows recently,

00:36:20 ◼   ► but it really has become a very important device for me.

00:36:24 ◼   ► And it's one of the more interesting things

00:36:27 ◼   ► that Apple have done recently,

00:36:28 ◼   ► but they've done it in a kind of non-fanfare-y type way.

00:36:31 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:36:34 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a hard, you know,

00:36:37 ◼   ► it's a product that it's gonna take time,

00:36:40 ◼   ► and it's gonna take those app updates.

00:36:42 ◼   ► And I think it's a long-term strategy from Apple,

00:36:45 ◼   ► but I think it's a very interesting product.

00:36:49 ◼   ► I see people dismiss it, and I just think,

00:36:53 ◼   ► this is not the product that all of us are going to use.

00:36:55 ◼   ► It is definitely a very specific kind of product,

00:36:57 ◼   ► but I think if you just dismiss it out of hand,

00:37:01 ◼   ► then you're making a big mistake.

00:37:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, most definitely.

00:37:05 ◼   ► So there was some news over the last couple of days

00:37:07 ◼   ► that I'm sure are making you very happy.

00:37:09 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:37:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, we complained a lot in recent shows

00:37:14 ◼   ► about the Apple TV. And one of the fundamental questions that kind of baffled all of us was,

00:37:19 ◼   ► why did it not support the remote app? Because that would make a lot of things. The remote

00:37:25 ◼   ► app used with the old Apple TV, you can enter in passwords, you can enter in search terms,

00:37:30 ◼   ► and you can kind of control the screen. Why can you not do that? And last week, Apple

00:37:35 ◼   ► released an update to... They did a bunch of operating system updates, including a tvOS

00:37:42 ◼   ► that enables support for the Apple remote. The Apple remote app got updated the next

00:37:46 ◼   ► day, weirdly, and the release notes said it supports the new Apple TV, but I used the

00:37:53 ◼   ► previous version the day before and it worked fine. So it was really about the tvOS update

00:37:59 ◼   ► that whatever, you know, whatever it's listening for, it wasn't listening for. Now it was listening

00:38:03 ◼   ► for that remote app. And so now you can do that, which means that now if you get an Apple

00:38:10 ◼   ► TV and you need to enter in passwords, you can go to your phone and launch the remote

00:38:13 ◼   ► app and put the passwords in there using the keyboard on the iPhone, which is great. It's

00:38:18 ◼   ► still emulating the old remote control, and Apple was quoted as saying by someone, I forget

00:38:26 ◼   ► who they furnished the quote to, as saying they were working on an update, whether it's

00:38:31 ◼   ► a new app or it's an update to the remote app, that will emulate the full Siri remote,

00:38:35 ◼   ► which presumably means, like, Siri Remote tells, like, where your finger is moving on

00:38:41 ◼   ► the trackpad. If you move your, if you sort of swirl your thumb around on the trackpad,

00:38:46 ◼   ► you can see the little icons move. The remote app is just left, right, up, down. You know,

00:38:51 ◼   ► even if you're sliding your finger across it, it doesn't do that. It just translates

00:38:55 ◼   ► it as the old remote's left, right, up, down. So presumably it would get more detailed trackpad

00:39:02 ◼   ► support and access to the gyroscope and accelerometer and maybe the microphone for voice control.

00:39:11 ◼   ► And I wrote a post about this. I do wonder if this means that we're also headed for a

00:39:15 ◼   ► software update that will enable more than one Siri remote on the Apple TV, because then

00:39:20 ◼   ► you could use the Siri remotes like Wii remotes and play games and stuff with just the Siri

00:39:25 ◼   ► remotes, which might be an interesting thing for people who don't want to buy game pads

00:39:30 ◼   ► for the Apple TV. So it'll be interesting to see. The question becomes, and it's irrelevant

00:39:34 ◼   ► now, I suppose, but the question remains, why was this not available at launch? And

00:39:39 ◼   ► I guess the answer is just that they didn't have it ready. Maybe they didn't realize that

00:39:44 ◼   ► anybody cared, and this was a response to everybody complaining about it. But yeah,

00:39:49 ◼   ► it's still a little weird, but at least it's here now. That's great.

00:39:52 ◼   ► - I've, this isn't something that bothers me,

00:39:57 ◼   ► at all really.

00:39:59 ◼   ► I'm fine with the remote,

00:40:01 ◼   ► but yeah, I'm happy that it's there

00:40:06 ◼   ► for the people that want it, like yourself and Joe Steele.

00:40:09 ◼   ► - Well, but it's not, see the thing is once it's,

00:40:11 ◼   ► I think that part of this is that we're all happy

00:40:14 ◼   ► to be just using the, we're past set up now.

00:40:18 ◼   ► We're past set up now.

00:40:19 ◼   ► So it is less relevant to all of us who are past setup now.

00:40:23 ◼   ► Where it's relevant is for people who are setting up these things and are in that position

00:40:27 ◼   ► where they're asked for their various service passwords five times.

00:40:31 ◼   ► That's where it's really important to have a product like this.

00:40:35 ◼   ► So there was some other, there was another little Apple TV thing which is kind of more

00:40:39 ◼   ► located to my interests than yours, or just my geographical location, which is the BBC

00:40:46 ◼   ► iPlayer app has been debuted on the Apple TV which is great that it's there

00:40:54 ◼   ► you know this is something wasn't launched but everybody loves iPlayer in

00:40:57 ◼   ► this country it's the BBC's online system where you can watch their shows

00:41:01 ◼   ► and it's free and as long as you put your TV license but the interesting part

00:41:04 ◼   ► is they have a link to it they have a whole page that they built on apple.com

00:41:09 ◼   ► promoting the iPlayer like if you go to apple.com/UK right now is one of the

00:41:13 ◼   ► little banner items down the bottom. And you can click it, and I'll put a link in the show

00:41:18 ◼   ► notes to the actual page that Apple have built displaying iPlayer as a big feature, because

00:41:23 ◼   ► it is a big feature. They really should have endeavored to have it here on day one, but

00:41:28 ◼   ► they've got it now, and they're promoting it as a big part of the Apple TV in the UK.

00:41:33 ◼   ► >> And this is the—I made this point about the Apple Watch a little bit too, but in the

00:41:37 ◼   ► end, you know, the bulk of sales and the bulk of experience with this stuff is probably

00:41:44 ◼   ► going to happen, a lot of these products is going to happen around Christmas. It's going

00:41:49 ◼   ► to happen in December. And so they should have had this stuff at launch, but they have

00:41:53 ◼   ► it now, which means that if people buy an Apple TV for Christmas and it's under the

00:41:57 ◼   ► tree, well, it's going to be there. They're not going to care.

00:42:02 ◼   ► If they couldn't get it for launch,

00:42:04 ◼   ► it's good that they got it for Christmas.

00:42:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:07 ◼   ► Because that's the time.

00:42:08 ◼   ► But I just thought it was really interesting

00:42:10 ◼   ► that they made such a big song and dance about it.

00:42:12 ◼   ► But what is funny about all of this, of course,

00:42:15 ◼   ► is they've created a page to it, but there's nothing you can do.

00:42:20 ◼   ► Right, you still have to go and search for it?

00:42:22 ◼   ► There's nothing you can do for it.

00:42:23 ◼   ► And Joe Steele has said to me that it's apparently

00:42:29 ◼   ► appearing on Apple TVs in the UK.

00:42:31 ◼   ► I have not seen this.

00:42:32 ◼   ► - That's interesting.

00:42:33 ◼   ► If you're in the UK, maybe you just get it.

00:42:35 ◼   ► That's cool.

00:42:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's weird though.

00:42:38 ◼   ► But hey, I mean, I like it, so I'm having it there.

00:42:41 ◼   ► - Just do it.

00:42:41 ◼   ► Just put it there.

00:42:42 ◼   ► - But it's interesting that they're just shoving it in.

00:42:45 ◼   ► But hey, hey, yo.

00:42:46 ◼   ► Wonderful floats your boat, man.

00:42:48 ◼   ► Everybody loves iPlayer here.

00:42:50 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna be an issue.

00:42:51 ◼   ► - Well, I could argue that it would make,

00:42:53 ◼   ► it would make a more pleasurable Apple TV setup experience

00:42:57 ◼   ► in America if you had,

00:42:58 ◼   ► if they just went ahead and auto installed a handful of the most common sort of video

00:43:04 ◼   ► services and things rather than making people do it. Wouldn't it be better if Netflix was

00:43:08 ◼   ► available right out of the box?

00:43:10 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:43:11 ◼   ► - Probably. And is it really a big deal if you don't want it? Or if it auto downloads

00:43:15 ◼   ► when you set it up? Or it prompts you and says, "Would you like me to install these

00:43:19 ◼   ► things instead of having to go to the app store?" I don't know. They'll work on it.

00:43:22 ◼   ► They'll get it better. And they'll get statistics about who's using what and they can use that

00:43:26 ◼   ► to guide it too.

00:43:27 ◼   ► For sure. I mean, I guess they can't really put Netfl- it's more difficult to put Netflix

00:43:33 ◼   ► on there because it's not free. Right? People still have to sign up for an account. It's

00:43:40 ◼   ► not kind of, you know, it's not guaranteed that you can have access to it. But in the

00:43:46 ◼   ► UK, if you have a TV, you should be paying your TV license.

00:43:51 ◼   ► Right. So you should have access to iPlayer.

00:43:53 ◼   ► You should be able to get access to iPlayer.

00:43:55 ◼   ► Interesting. Yeah, there's tweets that Joe Steele has pasted in the chat room from people

00:44:00 ◼   ► saying it definitely just appeared on their Apple TVs.

00:44:05 ◼   ► I don't have a problem with that. I'm sure people will throw the YouTube argument in.

00:44:09 ◼   ► Bono approves.

00:44:10 ◼   ► Yeah, Bono gave the stamp of approval on this decision. All right, should we take a break?

00:44:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:17 ◼   ► Nice Doctor Who image on that BBC iPlayer page on Apple site, by the way. Just throwing

00:44:20 ◼   ► it out there.

00:44:21 ◼   ► That's that's a good you got a good Venn diagram there, right? Mm-hmm, you know, Doctor Who

00:44:25 ◼   ► What says BBC more like Doctor Who?

00:44:28 ◼   ► BBC, Apple lovers, Doctor Who, there's it there's got to be a crossover

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00:47:41 ◼   ► up today.

00:47:44 ◼   ► So Mr Snell, a couple of weeks ago you published a little article that I thought was interesting

00:47:50 ◼   ► and I think that some of our listeners might do too, which was the use of a service called

00:47:55 ◼   ► Cast. Could you explain to listeners what Cast is all about?

00:47:59 ◼   ► - So Caust, I like that you went with that.

00:48:03 ◼   ► You just got you there, didn't I?

00:48:05 ◼   ► - It's Caust.

00:48:06 ◼   ► See, you have to buy it and it costs.

00:48:09 ◼   ► No.

00:48:09 ◼   ► - Let me try it in your way.

00:48:11 ◼   ► Caust.

00:48:12 ◼   ► - Well, yes, it's a pod blank.

00:48:15 ◼   ► That's the word you're looking for, C-A-S-T.

00:48:19 ◼   ► Caust is a service, takes advantage.

00:48:21 ◼   ► There are a few of these that were beta testing this summer

00:48:23 ◼   ► and this one launched last week, two weeks ago.

00:48:27 ◼   ► And it is a service you pay, you subscribe,

00:48:30 ◼   ► although there's a trial.

00:48:32 ◼   ► And it uses technology that exists in Chrome,

00:48:38 ◼   ► though not yet in Safari,

00:48:40 ◼   ► that allows some very clever things to happen.

00:48:43 ◼   ► So basically it's a podcast service.

00:48:45 ◼   ► And what you do is as a subscriber to CAST,

00:48:48 ◼   ► you are the host essentially of a podcast.

00:48:51 ◼   ► And you say, I'm gonna do a new podcast.

00:48:53 ◼   ► And you get a link, a shareable link

00:48:55 ◼   ► that you send to your guest or guests.

00:48:57 ◼   ► And I think you can have up to three guests

00:48:59 ◼   ► and they click on the link and open it in Chrome.

00:49:03 ◼   ► They have to open it in Chrome, it won't work in Safari.

00:49:05 ◼   ► And they connect to your show page.

00:49:08 ◼   ► And then once you're on that page,

00:49:10 ◼   ► you can all hear each other.

00:49:12 ◼   ► And what Cast is doing in the background is,

00:49:14 ◼   ► you pick your microphone that you're using

00:49:17 ◼   ► and it compresses the audio

00:49:20 ◼   ► like you would with Skype or Google Hangouts

00:49:22 ◼   ► or something like that and sends it up to the server

00:49:24 ◼   ► and then relays it to the other people. So, and that way it's just like Skype. It's not

00:49:28 ◼   ► any different. You hear other people's voices. And you're all looking at the same webpage

00:49:33 ◼   ► and you can actually send little notes to each other. So again, it's a little bit like

00:49:37 ◼   ► Skype. The big difference is that with Cast, you are also, while you're sending that audio

00:49:44 ◼   ► up, it's also recording your microphone at a much higher quality and uploading that in

00:49:51 ◼   ► the background to its server. So when the podcast is over, oh, and as a host, you decide

00:49:59 ◼   ► when everything starts recording and you click the button and the recording begins. So your

00:50:05 ◼   ► guests don't need to remember to press the record button, which believe me, people forget.

00:50:12 ◼   ► They don't need to launch software that they use to record their own audio because the

00:50:15 ◼   ► best sounding podcast, you record your own audio and then transfer the file later. And

00:50:20 ◼   ► That's what we do in all the Relay Podcasts.

00:50:23 ◼   ► So Cast does all of that.

00:50:24 ◼   ► So when you're done with the conversation, the host press stop, and Cast will bring up

00:50:28 ◼   ► a little dialog box that says, "Please wait while I upload the rest of your local file."

00:50:32 ◼   ► It usually doesn't take very long because usually if there's enough bandwidth, it's

00:50:35 ◼   ► been kind of sneakily uploading chunks of it in the background.

00:50:40 ◼   ► When all is said and done, what Cast has is your local recording version of everybody

00:50:45 ◼   ► who was in the conversation, and you can do a few things with that.

00:50:48 ◼   ► You can actually edit it in the Cast app on the web. Basically, it's got some pretty simple

00:50:54 ◼   ► trim and insertion functionality, so you can trim the beginning and end of the podcast

00:51:03 ◼   ► and remove some mistake in the middle and drop in an ad and put in some music. But it's

00:51:07 ◼   ► rudimentary, but you can do it. You can also just download the audio files as a bundle,

00:51:12 ◼   ► and it will let you as the host download everybody's individual tracks for you to take away and

00:51:17 ◼   ► at it yourself. And I think that's really interesting because it allows you to get pretty

00:51:24 ◼   ► good audio quality out of people without them having to do any of those things that are

00:51:31 ◼   ► a little more complicated, like launching an app or downloading and launching an app

00:51:34 ◼   ► and pressing record and then saving the file out in the right format and then remembering

00:51:38 ◼   ► to transfer it to you in a timely fashion. That all happens behind the scenes. All they

00:51:42 ◼   ► have to do is go to a web page in Chrome and talk. And you can even tell what microphone

00:51:47 ◼   ► they're using because if you if you hear it that's the microphone that it's using

00:51:52 ◼   ► and so you you know what the recording is going to sound like so I think it's

00:51:56 ◼   ► pretty clever and what was your impression of the the quality of the

00:52:02 ◼   ► audio that was produced like what did it did it was it comparable in to the stuff

00:52:08 ◼   ► that you would usually call of me you would usually recorded like core

00:52:11 ◼   ► recorder or yeah I Jack yeah it seems to be it seems to be like 128 or 192 mp3

00:52:17 ◼   ► that's going up to the server, which is pretty good. I have some people who record their

00:52:21 ◼   ► audio lossless, but I don't. It's not really necessary. Voice is so simple a thing that

00:52:27 ◼   ► it can easily be encompassed in a 128 or a 192 file. So I was actually quite happy with

00:52:34 ◼   ► it. I did an episode of TV Talk Machine, Episode 62, and I didn't edit with that. I just downloaded

00:52:43 ◼   ► the file, but my co-host Tim, I usually just record using Skype and I don't even bother

00:52:48 ◼   ► to have him. He is not a very technical person, so I do not have him set up something and

00:52:53 ◼   ► record it and send me his file and all that. It's just like it's too much trouble. But

00:52:57 ◼   ► with this, I didn't have to do that and it worked fine. So I might do it again. I'm not

00:53:01 ◼   ► sure in the end if for a two-person conversation, if your connection is stable, it's really

00:53:07 ◼   ► necessary to record their end of the conversation because it's when you get more than two people

00:53:14 ◼   ► or if somebody sounds really bad and you know Skypey and robotic that you need to rely on

00:53:20 ◼   ► that. So I was pretty happy with that. You know it's we when you and I tried it we had

00:53:29 ◼   ► some this summer there were a lot of artifacts and it was no good.

00:53:31 ◼   ► >> Yeah this is in the beta like just to kind of to say we tried it in the beta period and

00:53:36 ◼   ► we weren't very impressed with it, but you seem to have had better experiences than what

00:53:40 ◼   ► we had. Basically, we just got some really bad sounding audio files out at the end of

00:53:43 ◼   ► it.

00:53:44 ◼   ► Yeah, but in the beta. And then you said that you—so Dan and I are now doing a podcast

00:53:49 ◼   ► for Six Colors subscribers, and we did the first one using this as a test, and I thought

00:53:55 ◼   ► it sounded okay, although you said you heard some artifacts in it.

00:53:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I definitely did. It's difficult to explain them, but just there were times where

00:54:03 ◼   ► I would hear what sounds like you're a little bit underwater.

00:54:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm not quite sure what was going on. That one I tried to edit using their tools

00:54:13 ◼   ► and export out the final flattened version.

00:54:15 ◼   ► Yeah, it sounds like they were doing some really heavy compression on it that was screwing

00:54:19 ◼   ► things up.

00:54:20 ◼   ► Well, and then what happened was the compression that they were--they have a compression setting

00:54:24 ◼   ► that they let you do that is supposed to level everything out and it was overmodulating everything,

00:54:28 ◼   ► so I ended up having it come out uncompressed and running it through Levelator, which also

00:54:33 ◼   ► can make things sound weird, but it sounded better. But generally, I think for my use,

00:54:38 ◼   ► I would just take the files away and do my own editing. But if you're somebody who wants,

00:54:44 ◼   ► I think this is encouraging because if you want to do group podcasts and you don't want

00:54:47 ◼   ► to have a whole lot of software and setup and all of that, and you really just want

00:54:52 ◼   ► to get that conversation, you could do it all in the browser. I feel like it's missing

00:54:59 ◼   ► some key features like being, if somebody coughs on one of the tracks, you should be

00:55:03 ◼   ► able to take that out.

00:55:04 ◼   ► >> Yeah, because currently you can't do that.

00:55:05 ◼   ► >> No.

00:55:06 ◼   ► >> Like, if you want to remove something, you remove it from all tracks, not single

00:55:09 ◼   ► tracks, which is kind of a bit crazy.

00:55:11 ◼   ► If you ever edited a podcast, you know how crazy that is.

00:55:14 ◼   ► Really, you need to be able to take parts out of each track.

00:55:18 ◼   ► >> And it sounds like they're working on it.

00:55:19 ◼   ► I talked to their developers, and they said that they're working on that and some of the

00:55:23 ◼   ► challenges are how you do that with a good interface in the web browser.

00:55:27 ◼   ► But they are working on it.

00:55:28 ◼   ► It's an interesting service and has the potential to make it easier for regular people to, you

00:55:33 ◼   ► to get on a podcast without a lot of technical hassle. And I think that's good. Most of my

00:55:39 ◼   ► panelists for shows are old hands at this now, and it's not an issue. But I could see

00:55:45 ◼   ► how this would be great if you were working for a radio station or a podcast that you've

00:55:50 ◼   ► got sort of random people coming on all the time, that this would be, as long as they've

00:55:55 ◼   ► got Chrome, which you can download for free on every platform.

00:55:59 ◼   ► That's the problem though, right? Because it's like this is this is good for

00:56:04 ◼   ► Basically not having to tell somebody how to download and install a new Skype

00:56:09 ◼   ► Yeah, but you still need them to go and download Chrome

00:56:12 ◼   ► I mean, I don't need to sign up for an account which is at least one step which is better, right?

00:56:17 ◼   ► But they still have there's still some hand-holding that has to be done if they don't already have Chrome if they do have Chrome

00:56:23 ◼   ► You're off to the races because send them an email of a link in it and just say go here and then

00:56:28 ◼   ► it's done.

00:56:29 ◼   ► And my daughter has a Chromebook, and, you know, Chromebooks were not suitable for podcasting,

00:56:34 ◼   ► and now they are. Because this is—because they only will do whatever runs in the browser,

00:56:40 ◼   ► but this runs in the browser. And then I had that moment where I realized—because I wrote

00:56:45 ◼   ► about this and I tweeted about it, and I had some people misunderstood and thought that

00:56:48 ◼   ► I was saying you could do this on the iPad. I'm also talking about podcasting on the

00:56:51 ◼   ► iPad. These are not the same conversation. But imagine—so imagine if Safari—this

00:56:57 ◼   ► is the real thing, and I don't know if Apple plans on doing this, but imagine if Safari

00:57:00 ◼   ► is updated at some point to support this. I think it's part of a standard. It's like

00:57:05 ◼   ► an audio spec where you can record and upload audio, and it's using some very specific features

00:57:11 ◼   ► that are implemented by Chrome but haven't yet been implemented by Safari. But what if...

00:57:15 ◼   ► - Well, I guess what it's doing is using some of the frameworks that Google Chrome have

00:57:20 ◼   ► being able to store information as well, right? Like what's built into Chrome OS, which is

00:57:25 ◼   ► is also part of Google Chrome.

00:57:28 ◼   ► - I think--

00:57:30 ◼   ► - 'Cause it has to be able to store the audio somewhere

00:57:32 ◼   ► in a cache whilst it's uploading it.

00:57:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it's using WebRTC,

00:57:39 ◼   ► which is not yet, not as supported.

00:57:42 ◼   ► You may be able to use Firefox and Edge too.

00:57:45 ◼   ► I think it's just Safari that doesn't do this, but.

00:57:48 ◼   ► - This goes all the way back to that discussion

00:57:50 ◼   ► from a couple of months ago, right?

00:57:52 ◼   ► About Safari kind of lagging behind.

00:57:54 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah, this is a question is like, is this a...

00:57:58 ◼   ► So I can't tell you what Apple's opinion

00:58:01 ◼   ► of these features are, but I can tell you that

00:58:04 ◼   ► if Safari used this, that would be really interesting.

00:58:06 ◼   ► And if Safari used this on iOS, it would be very interesting

00:58:11 ◼   ► because then you have a scenario where

00:58:15 ◼   ► if you can plug a microphone into an iPad or an iPhone

00:58:17 ◼   ► and Apple updated iOS 9.2,

00:58:23 ◼   ► supports even more USB devices on iPhones.

00:58:26 ◼   ► iPads already supported them.

00:58:27 ◼   ► And yes, there are power issues

00:58:29 ◼   ► where some microphones require that you have a powered hub,

00:58:32 ◼   ► but some don't.

00:58:33 ◼   ► But it would be very interesting

00:58:35 ◼   ► if you could launch a browser and go to this website

00:58:39 ◼   ► on an iPad or a Mac or a Chromebook or a PC

00:58:44 ◼   ► or an Android device.

00:58:47 ◼   ► And as long as a microphone was attached,

00:58:50 ◼   ► you could record a podcast.

00:58:51 ◼   ► and it didn't matter because the service

00:58:53 ◼   ► was doing the recording,

00:58:55 ◼   ► the audio was getting uploaded automatically.

00:58:57 ◼   ► That's really interesting to me,

00:59:01 ◼   ► but unfortunately it just doesn't work now.

00:59:04 ◼   ► So short of either Cast doing an app on iOS,

00:59:09 ◼   ► which seems unlikely because they would have to implement

00:59:12 ◼   ► WebRTC or whatever else they're doing here,

00:59:14 ◼   ► or short of Apple,

00:59:16 ◼   ► I think it's Apple allowing Chrome to run on iOS

00:59:20 ◼   ► with its own engine, which also seems to be unlikely, it really is gonna be a matter of

00:59:24 ◼   ► will there be an update to Safari at some point in iOS and on the Mac that supports

00:59:29 ◼   ► this functionality. I don't know if that'll happen or not, but it's interesting. It's

00:59:35 ◼   ► intriguing stuff. And I'd like to see it. It's a cool use of... The incumbents like

00:59:42 ◼   ► Skype seem to not... They don't care that everybody's using them for podcasting. So

00:59:46 ◼   ► this is an interesting alternative. It is a paid alternative if you're the host, the

00:59:50 ◼   ► guests are free, but if you're a host. But I thought it was really interesting. It's

00:59:54 ◼   ► one of the more intriguing attempts at a podcast recording system that I've seen.

00:59:59 ◼   ► Shall we do some Ask Upgrade? I think that's a great idea.

01:00:03 ◼   ► This week's Ask Upgrade is brought to you by GoToMeeting. I want you to just for a moment

01:00:08 ◼   ► picture what it can be like to set up a meeting in today's world, right? You know, when I'm

01:00:14 ◼   ► asking you to go back in time, because this is something that happens in offices all over

01:00:18 ◼   ► the globe today you ask somebody if they're free for a meeting or check

01:00:22 ◼   ► their calendar you try and book it in you can finally find a time with

01:00:25 ◼   ► somebody and you get it all set you get the meeting arranged but they need to

01:00:28 ◼   ► find a room or a place like where are they where are these rooms and places

01:00:32 ◼   ► it could be in the building that you're in or maybe you have to go somewhere

01:00:35 ◼   ► else another building to get to a room where you can actually both sit down

01:00:39 ◼   ► together you've got to try and book that room I remember when I worked in a big

01:00:42 ◼   ► building with thousands of people inside you couldn't find a room for love nor

01:00:46 ◼   ► money for weeks in advance. You had to try and call people to beg and plead with the

01:00:50 ◼   ► administration team so they could try and get you a room set up and you know it was

01:00:54 ◼   ► just insane. Then you need all the technical stuff. Let's say you want to do a presentation,

01:00:58 ◼   ► you got to make sure it's a projector, you got to have all the dongles. This is madness.

01:01:02 ◼   ► People just shouldn't be meeting this way. They should be using GoToMeeting from Citrix

01:01:05 ◼   ► instead. It is the better way to meet with people. You can meet your clients and co-workers

01:01:10 ◼   ► online. Remember that internet thing that we all love so much? This is where your meeting

01:01:14 ◼   ► should be now. GoToMeeting makes it easy to meet with your team whenever you need to wherever

01:01:19 ◼   ► you are because with GoToMeeting you can meet from any computer, tablet or even a smartphone

01:01:24 ◼   ► as well without travel expenses or the hassle of travel. GoToMeeting has a great iOS app

01:01:29 ◼   ► where you can do everything. Your team will be able to join a GoToMeeting by just clicking

01:01:39 ◼   ► a link, no signups, no speed bumps, nothing's getting in the way and you can turn on your

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01:02:02 ◼   ► has

01:02:18 ◼   ► and click the "Try It Free" button and you'll have your first meeting up and running in

01:02:23 ◼   ► minutes. Once again, visit GoToMeeting.com for your free 30-day trial. Thank you so much

01:02:28 ◼   ► to Citrix GoToMeeting for supporting this week's episode of Upgrade and Ask Upgrade.

01:02:34 ◼   ► Oh, I should mention Cast is Tri-cast, T-R-Y-C-A dot S-T.

01:02:41 ◼   ► I'll make sure it's in the show notes.

01:02:43 ◼   ► If you want to check it out, yeah.

01:02:44 ◼   ► If you do want to find those show notes on the web, they're over at relay.fm/upgrades/67,

01:02:50 ◼   ► and if you want to become a Relay FM member and support this show, there are buttons there

01:02:54 ◼   ► conveniently to allow you to do that.

01:02:59 ◼   ► And I will say that Cast also only officially supports Chrome, although other browsers do

01:03:07 ◼   ► support some parts of the WebRTC thing, just not Safari.

01:03:10 ◼   ► >> Okay, okay. What was that URL again? Was it trycast.com?

01:03:13 ◼   ► >> No, it's tryca.st.

01:03:16 ◼   ► >> Oh, yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, you need to go to the show. It's one of those tricky

01:03:24 ◼   ► domains.

01:03:25 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Alright so the first Ask a Great Question this week comes from Luke.

01:03:31 ◼   ► Luke is thinking of buying an Apple Watch and wants to know if we think he should wait

01:03:36 ◼   ► for the rumoured Apple Watch 2 or buy one when hopefully they may be on sale just after

01:03:43 ◼   ► Christmas like we have Boxing Day sales here in the UK where I assume he referenced Boxing

01:03:48 ◼   ► Day.

01:03:49 ◼   ► So that means that some stuff will go on sale, maybe Apple will do a sale or some other company

01:03:53 ◼   ► will offer a sale on Apple Watch potentially, or maybe just at some point in the next couple

01:03:58 ◼   ► of months. Do you think that Luke should go ahead and get one now, or is it worth waiting?

01:04:04 ◼   ► I don't know. I feel like with the Apple Watch you should just do what feels right.

01:04:15 ◼   ► People are asking for upgrade advice here, Jason. We need to give this guy some advice.

01:04:19 ◼   ► - I have a hard, well, this is what I'm saying though,

01:04:21 ◼   ► is I have a hard time answering this question

01:04:23 ◼   ► 'cause it depends on how much do you want an Apple Watch?

01:04:25 ◼   ► I feel like, I don't think there's a new Apple Watch imminent.

01:04:29 ◼   ► I mean, there are rumors that they're testing things

01:04:31 ◼   ► and that it may be that the new Apple Watch

01:04:34 ◼   ► will be like the old Apple Watch,

01:04:35 ◼   ► except it'll have a FaceTime camera,

01:04:36 ◼   ► which I'm not sure how compelling that is.

01:04:38 ◼   ► Hopefully there's more in there,

01:04:40 ◼   ► but are they really gonna release that in the spring

01:04:41 ◼   ► or is it gonna be the fall?

01:04:43 ◼   ► And do you wanna wait until the fall?

01:04:45 ◼   ► I don't know, it's a bleeding edge product.

01:04:48 ◼   ► So at the same time, it's hard to recommend it in the same way that I would recommend

01:04:53 ◼   ► an iPad or an iPhone because it's a first generation product.

01:04:57 ◼   ► I wear mine every day and I enjoy it, but it's not, it's totally going to get better

01:05:03 ◼   ► in the next few years.

01:05:05 ◼   ► And so sure, wait, wait, don't even wait for Apple Watch 2, wait for Apple Watch 3 if you

01:05:10 ◼   ► want to have a really spectacular Apple Watch.

01:05:12 ◼   ► But if you want to wear an Apple Watch now, then you should buy it.

01:05:16 ◼   ► And I think that's really my advice is I enjoy mine. I talk to people who really like theirs.

01:05:21 ◼   ► I think that the people who don't like the watch as much are perhaps, I think perhaps

01:05:28 ◼   ► there's a judgment about like what do we think it was going to be versus what it is. What

01:05:33 ◼   ► it is is not everything that perhaps people hoped it would be, I would say, but I like

01:05:39 ◼   ► what it is. I like that it gives me notifications and taps me on the wrist and tells me the

01:05:43 ◼   ► time and has little complications that give me other bits of information and monitors

01:05:49 ◼   ► my fitness stuff and is my alarm clock. There are lots of things I like about it, so I wear

01:05:54 ◼   ► it all the time. But your mileage may vary. But you know, if you can get a deal on one,

01:05:59 ◼   ► I don't feel like there's going to be one, I could be wrong, but I don't feel like there's

01:06:03 ◼   ► going to be a huge new Apple Watch that does everything and solves every problem and is

01:06:08 ◼   ► going to be out in the next few months. That seems highly unlikely to me.

01:06:11 ◼   ► I would say Luke if you find one on sale and the price is right for you then I would go for it.

01:06:16 ◼   ► Joe Steele in the chat room says what will we do about the Apple TV for the holidays?

01:06:26 ◼   ► Would I recommend one? Yeah you're the worst person to ask. Yeah because I'd just say like whatever

01:06:33 ◼   ► man. I'd say I'd say yeah I like it so I would say yeah I think I think it's a I think it's a

01:06:38 ◼   ► a pretty good product. But again, it comes down to what video services do they use and

01:06:46 ◼   ► do they want to play games and do they use a lot of Apple stuff and rent or buy a lot

01:06:50 ◼   ► of iTunes movies because it's the only box that'll do any of those things. I spend most

01:06:54 ◼   ► of my time on Mytevo now because Mytevo does Hulu and Netflix and Amazon Video. Plus, it's

01:07:05 ◼   ► my DVR, right? So I don't need a lot more other than the iTunes stuff, but I think at

01:07:12 ◼   ► this point it's a fun video box. I wouldn't... there are cheaper options. I mean, if somebody

01:07:19 ◼   ► just wants something cheap, get them a Fire TV stick for, what, $39. But I feel like it's

01:07:27 ◼   ► much more of a complete product in some ways than the Apple TV is because it's got... you

01:07:32 ◼   ► know, the Apple TV hardware is going to improve over the next three or four years in a way

01:07:35 ◼   ► that I don't think the Apple TV, the Apple, the Apple watch hardware will improve dramatically

01:07:39 ◼   ► because it's a first generation piece of hardware and Apple TV is not a first generation piece

01:07:43 ◼   ► of hardware. The OS is and the store is new, but the hardware is using not only just is

01:07:51 ◼   ► it the fourth generation of Apple TV hardware, but it's also based on all the iOS hardware

01:07:56 ◼   ► in a way that the Apple watch isn't so much because it's so miniaturized. It's a, it's

01:08:01 ◼   ► a much harder problem to solve.

01:08:04 ◼   ► >> Rajiv would like to know, is there any more evidence besides the support tech chat

01:08:10 ◼   ► thing that came out a couple of weeks ago that Amazon is bringing an app to the current

01:08:14 ◼   ► Apple TV? I haven't seen anything, I wondered if you've seen anything.

01:08:17 ◼   ► >> No, I think the only other evidence is that the Amazon apps are on iOS and therefore

01:08:22 ◼   ► it's not a big leap and that if they weren't going to put them on there that would be out

01:08:27 ◼   ► of spite more than anything else. And as we've talked about before, ultimately, Amazon wants

01:08:35 ◼   ► to be everywhere and they want to be indispensable everywhere. And they don't want there to be

01:08:39 ◼   ► other boxes that are impediments to becoming an Amazon customer because they don't support

01:08:44 ◼   ► Amazon's things. It's like Apple's not going to stop Amazon from being on the Apple TV.

01:08:49 ◼   ► So why would Amazon not go on the Apple TV, especially since they've got the iOS apps?

01:08:54 ◼   ► So my guess is that they will be there. But evidence? No. There's none of that.

01:09:02 ◼   ► Yeah. I think they'll do it because, you know, business, but it's just going to take them

01:09:06 ◼   ► a while because it's not maybe a priority.

01:09:08 ◼   ► Yeah. It may just be as simple as a development priority of, you know, what other stuff they're

01:09:14 ◼   ► working on across all fronts. Do they want to go through the holidays pointing everybody

01:09:19 ◼   ► at the at their own devices and then only after the holidays come in and drop it. That's

01:09:25 ◼   ► a you know that's part spite part strategy but yeah maybe I don't know. I don't know

01:09:30 ◼   ► I think it makes Amazon offering stronger to be on Apple TV because it allows them to

01:09:35 ◼   ► say we are everywhere including Apple's device instead of saying you know we're everywhere

01:09:40 ◼   ► except the new Apple TV. Why? That's not the game that I think Amazon is playing.

01:09:45 ◼   ► Jimmy wanted to know about my iPad Pro stickers so I mentioned I've been

01:09:51 ◼   ► putting stickers on the iPad Pro and he asked the question I think is an

01:09:55 ◼   ► excellent question and was something that I considered. Jimmy wants to know is

01:09:59 ◼   ► Myke placing his stickers on his iPad Pro to be viewable from any direction or

01:10:03 ◼   ► to be right side up when docked in the keyboard cover? So yeah on my MacBook Pro

01:10:08 ◼   ► the majority of my stickers are oriented to be viewed from whatever...

01:10:15 ◼   ► So say if you're looking at my MacBook when I'm using it, I have the lid open,

01:10:20 ◼   ► you would be able to read them all, right? They're placed in a way that they all kind of...

01:10:24 ◼   ► you know, they're placed in the landscape orientation so it all works out.

01:10:28 ◼   ► On my iPad Pro, because I can use it in any orientation and do, I considered this and

01:10:34 ◼   ► and they're all sticking in all different ways.

01:10:37 ◼   ► I have... so there will be stickers viewable from all orientations. I have

01:10:41 ◼   ► only got a small handful of stickers on there right now. I need to do some work

01:10:44 ◼   ► on choosing some stuff. Obviously I have less surface area which

01:10:48 ◼   ► is why I'm being a little bit more picky about it because

01:10:50 ◼   ► on the MacBook I have two surfaces to put stickers on.

01:10:54 ◼   ► So it's coming along, I have a few on there, some of my favorites and

01:10:58 ◼   ► a couple of relay stickers on there right now.

01:11:00 ◼   ► And I, but yeah, I am considering that they should be viewable from any and all orientation.

01:11:07 ◼   ► So it's a bit of a mixed bag.

01:11:08 ◼   ► This is a great question also.

01:11:10 ◼   ► I was thinking about this this weekend.

01:11:13 ◼   ► When I use the, I'm using the iPad Pro with the old Apple wireless keyboard and that in

01:11:18 ◼   ► case origami workstation thing that doesn't exist anymore.

01:11:22 ◼   ► One of the nice things about that is that you can use it in portrait or landscape.

01:11:26 ◼   ► And there are times when you're writing that actually having the tall screen is kind of

01:11:30 ◼   ► neat. It's kind of fun having that taller screen. Since it's a 4x3, it's not as dramatic.

01:11:36 ◼   ► You couldn't really, I think, it would be kind of crazy to have it be super tall if

01:11:40 ◼   ► it was a 16x9 device, but it's not. But most of the time, and Apple's keyboard cover works

01:11:46 ◼   ► this way, you're working on the iPad in landscape orientation. And I had this moment when I

01:11:52 ◼   ► was walking down the stairs at my sister-in-law's house, and I looked over and I saw my iPad

01:11:56 ◼   ► Pro sitting on the table in the workstation, or maybe it was in the keyboard dock, because

01:12:00 ◼   ► I also had the keyboard cover with me. Maybe it was in the keyboard cover, but regardless.

01:12:05 ◼   ► And I looked at it and I thought, why, other than that the iPhone and then the iPad are

01:12:15 ◼   ► like this, why is the Apple-oriented on the back in portrait and not landscape? I think

01:12:22 ◼   ► it's a mistake. I think the iPad Pro ought to have the Apple in landscape.

01:12:26 ◼   ► - Because it's...they're actually promoting it and showing this thing on, you know, in

01:12:32 ◼   ► ads and stuff as being used in landscape.

01:12:34 ◼   ► - Isn't landscape the primary orientation? Maybe it's not, but it seems like if you're

01:12:39 ◼   ► attaching a keyboard to it and propping it up on a table and working on it, a sideways

01:12:44 ◼   ► Apple maybe isn't what you want there. Maybe they just decided that it's too weird when

01:12:48 ◼   ► somebody holds it in portrait to have a sideways apple, but short of Apple patenting a new

01:12:54 ◼   ► system that auto-rotates the Apple logo based on the orientation of the device, it's a

01:13:02 ◼   ► hard problem to solve, but I just had a moment where I thought, "I'm not sure this device

01:13:08 ◼   ► is a primary portrait orientation device." It feels like a very landscapey product to

01:13:14 ◼   ► me, and yet the Apple placement would suggest either kind of brand inertia or a feeling

01:13:21 ◼   ► like the portrait is still the thing that the iPad is for. I'm not sure I agree with

01:13:28 ◼   ► the iPad Pro. In fact, if you look at the Apple website for iPads, well, it's laying

01:13:37 ◼   ► at a jaunty angle, isn't it? But Jupiter is being displayed with an orientation that

01:13:44 ◼   ► suggests that it belongs in portrait orientation on that page. And I think that's just kind

01:13:50 ◼   ► of funny because is it? Or is that just sort of...

01:13:52 ◼   ► I mean, I use mine in portrait a bunch.

01:13:56 ◼   ► I do too. I do too. There are a lot of things to be said for it, in fact. But the keyboard

01:14:01 ◼   ► work, you know, when you're doing the keyboard work, you're usually in landscape. I don't

01:14:06 ◼   ► I don't know. It's just funny. So that was that that ask upgrade question was was funny

01:14:11 ◼   ► because it made me think too about like what is the right thing to do. Perhaps your answer

01:14:14 ◼   ► is the best which is just all the great orientations are the way to do it.

01:14:20 ◼   ► Last upgrade question this week is actually from me to you.

01:14:24 ◼   ► Okay well this is unprecedented but I'll allow it.

01:14:28 ◼   ► How excited are you for Star Wars?

01:14:31 ◼   ► How excited are you for Star Wars?

01:14:33 ◼   ► I'm really excited. I'm very, very much looking forward to 11am on Thursday, when I will see

01:14:42 ◼   ► Star Wars before you. I'm very excited. I am. I saw a TV spot last night, which I hadn't,

01:14:54 ◼   ► it was on the TV, so there's nothing I could do about it. I was very, it had some stuff

01:15:00 ◼   ► in it that I hadn't seen yet and I was screaming whilst it was on I am getting extremely excited

01:15:07 ◼   ► now.

01:15:08 ◼   ► [laughter]

01:15:09 ◼   ► Well.

01:15:10 ◼   ► I had some really cool footage in it, Jason. I don't know if you've seen it or not and

01:15:14 ◼   ► I won't spoil it for anybody else but-

01:15:16 ◼   ► I probably have.

01:15:17 ◼   ► There was some stuff in it I hadn't seen and I was very excited so.

01:15:23 ◼   ► I think I've probably seen them all at this point.

01:15:25 ◼   ► But I listened to the incomparable episode which I'll put in the show notes because people

01:15:29 ◼   ► we should go and listen to that, where you and Ren and Jon and Dan were talking about

01:15:33 ◼   ► your excitement for it. And I was just wondering how you're feeling now. Is it the week?

01:15:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I mean, that episode was funny because I had people asking me if it was a,

01:15:44 ◼   ► if it was a, like a spoilery episode. And the answer is, well, no, Jon was on it. And

01:15:50 ◼   ► Jon refuses to be spoiled. So of course not. It's about anticipation. It's about the fact

01:15:57 ◼   ► that this was all announced three years ago, and we've been talking about it since then,

01:16:02 ◼   ► and now it is upon us. So it's sort of like, what, you know, it's an interesting subject

01:16:07 ◼   ► about just anticipating Star Wars and what are our expectations and what are our concerns,

01:16:11 ◼   ► and I'm excited. I would say, yeah, I'm excited. How excited I am, you know, I am not at the

01:16:19 ◼   ► level of my friends who are total huge Star Wars fans. I read, I think, a couple of Star

01:16:27 ◼   ► Wars books and a few Star Wars comics, but I was never like, like I read dozens of Star

01:16:35 ◼   ► Trek books, but not Star Wars books. So I was always much more of a Star Trek fan. I

01:16:40 ◼   ► was much more, especially when I was about 14 or 13, much more of a Doctor Who fan, much

01:16:47 ◼   ► more of a Star Trek fan. Star Wars was always present and I love it, but I was never like

01:16:55 ◼   ► a super fan. You know, I did two months ago, I did buy tickets for opening night for Thursday

01:17:02 ◼   ► night at seven o'clock, even though my daughter has a final the next morning. So we're going.

01:17:09 ◼   ► You're going. Do your studying before and after, but we're going.

01:17:13 ◼   ► This is your problem now.

01:17:14 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. I gave her two months notice. So, you know, so yeah, I definitely am excited

01:17:20 ◼   ► about it. I just, it's funny because, like, Jon is taking Friday off from work to go see

01:17:29 ◼   ► it. Jon is seeing it Thursday alone, Friday with his wife, and Saturday with his whole

01:17:34 ◼   ► family, right? I mean...

01:17:35 ◼   ► I'm pretty much considering that I'm taking the day off, right? Like, I don't know if

01:17:40 ◼   ► I'll be able to function completely.

01:17:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, see, so I think that's great.

01:17:46 ◼   ► I think that's really exciting.

01:17:47 ◼   ► There's not a lot that I am that enthusiastic about.

01:17:53 ◼   ► I think these days, I have a lot,

01:17:57 ◼   ► I spread myself kind of thin

01:17:58 ◼   ► where I'm enthusiastic about a lot of things,

01:18:00 ◼   ► but I'm not like super excited about one thing

01:18:03 ◼   ► like in this just eruption of fandom, not so much,

01:18:08 ◼   ► but I'm excited for it.

01:18:09 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to it.

01:18:10 ◼   ► I'm also, as I've gotten older, I've gotten really good at playing the game that it'll

01:18:14 ◼   ► be here eventually and that I'll, it'll be great when it gets here, but I'm not gonna,

01:18:21 ◼   ► I realized I had that, there's the phrase, basically, "I can't wait."

01:18:28 ◼   ► I can't wait, people say.

01:18:30 ◼   ► And it's, that actually in the last few years that started to strike me as a kind of a crazy

01:18:35 ◼   ► phrase.

01:18:36 ◼   ► It's kind of ridiculous.

01:18:37 ◼   ► I can't wait.

01:18:38 ◼   ► Well, first off, you have to.

01:18:40 ◼   ► - But I don't wanna.

01:18:43 ◼   ► - Get used to disappointment,

01:18:44 ◼   ► but you actually do have to wait.

01:18:46 ◼   ► And it'll be here before you know it.

01:18:48 ◼   ► And then it'll be gone before you know it.

01:18:50 ◼   ► And so, and there's a lot going on.

01:18:53 ◼   ► There's a lot to be excited about.

01:18:54 ◼   ► So for me, it's been like that thing on the,

01:18:56 ◼   ► I've had it hanging on a hook on my wall of like,

01:18:59 ◼   ► then the "Star Wars" movie will come out.

01:19:01 ◼   ► And the nice thing about that is,

01:19:04 ◼   ► by just kind of having it in the background

01:19:06 ◼   ► and not getting too worked up about it,

01:19:07 ◼   ► you turn around one day and you're like, "Hey, the new Star Wars movie is this week. All right."

01:19:11 ◼   ► And it's like not like I didn't know that it was coming, but you know, I don't know, by modulating

01:19:16 ◼   ► my enthusiasm a little bit, it's more bearable, the weight is more bearable, and then it's a

01:19:22 ◼   ► little more like a nice surprise or a nice gift when it finally does arrive. So I'm happy that

01:19:28 ◼   ► it's here and I'm looking forward to it and I hope it's really good and I hope it is fodder for many,

01:19:33 ◼   ► many discussions on podcasts.

01:19:35 ◼   ► I hope so too. I don't know where I'm going to talk about it, but I'm going to have to

01:19:40 ◼   ► talk about it somewhere.

01:19:41 ◼   ► Well, we may be doing like 10 episodes of The Incomparable about it for all I know,

01:19:45 ◼   ► so who knows. We'll do a little mini-mic at the movies maybe next week.

01:19:49 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what we'll do. Yep, good idea. Because, well, because plus, there's going

01:19:53 ◼   ► to be no tech news next week, right? There will be no tech news. Absolutely zero, zilch

01:19:57 ◼   ► is out of nothing, so.

01:19:58 ◼   ► We'll just talk about Star Wars next week.

01:20:00 ◼   ► We'll have something to talk about. We'll talk about Star Wars. So there you go. No

01:20:04 ◼   ► complaints about spoilers now, everyone. We've told you. Next week we will very likely be

01:20:08 ◼   ► talking about Star Wars.

01:20:09 ◼   ► We'll fire off the spoiler horn before, but maybe we'll have some good follow-up from

01:20:13 ◼   ► web browser experts explaining exactly why Safari will never support WebRTC and demanding

01:20:19 ◼   ► a much more clear definition of what a command line interface is.

01:20:23 ◼   ► And why Launchpad is superior to OS X. Just why it should be the only way of interacting

01:20:29 ◼   ► of anything. If we're ever hurting for topics, that's what I need to do is just

01:20:33 ◼   ► declare some feature of the OS, something that nobody uses, and then just watch the

01:20:39 ◼   ► watch the Irish... let's do it now. I'm gonna do it now, Myke. I'm gonna I'm gonna say...

01:20:44 ◼   ► Nobody uses dashboard. Yeah! Nobody uses dashboard. It's dead. Why is it even...

01:20:52 ◼   ► Why can you still turn it on? Take that. I was gonna use like grab or or network

01:20:58 ◼   ► image utility or grapher or something like that but no that's it dashboard

01:21:02 ◼   ► nobody uses dashboard it's for chumps yep chumps and the old school losers

01:21:08 ◼   ► right in right in if you disagree and we'll talk about dashboard next week see

01:21:13 ◼   ► we're making topics beautiful talking about making topics we're starting our

01:21:19 ◼   ► planning for the upgrade ease if you we've had a few suggestions of

01:21:22 ◼   ► categories if you do want to suggest a category for the upgrade ease please use

01:21:27 ◼   ► the hashtag #AskUpgrade when you do so and then we'll be able to...

01:21:31 ◼   ► Don't try to spell upgrade-ies, #upgrade-ies, because...

01:21:34 ◼   ► #AskUpgrade, please. Because then it goes into the document that

01:21:38 ◼   ► we use for the Ask Upgrade stuff, so it makes it really easy to find. If you want to find

01:21:42 ◼   ► our show notes for this week, as I said before, head on over to relay.fm/upgrade/67. If you

01:21:47 ◼   ► want to find Jason online, he is over at SixColors.com and you can also find his other great podcasts,

01:21:53 ◼   ► as well as these relay shows you can find these other great podcast over at the incomparable.com

01:21:58 ◼   ► there's a lot of great stuff there and also Jason is @Jsnoel on Twitter J S N E double

01:22:04 ◼   ► L I am @imike I M Y K E thanks again to GoToMeeting, Warby Parker and Linda.com for helping support

01:22:10 ◼   ► this week's show we'll be back next time until then say goodbye Mr Snow may the force be

01:22:15 ◼   ► with you and with you

01:22:16 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:22:19 ◼   ► [ Music ]