0:00:00[Music]
0:00:07From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 64. Today's show is brought to you
0:00:13by Braintree,
0:00:14TextExpander, Hover,
0:00:16and igloo. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Jason Snow.
0:00:20Hi Myke, how's it going? I'm very well Mr. Snow, how are you today?
0:00:24Pretty good. Busy, busy time, busy week.
0:00:26lots of iPad Pro business and we had a busy show last week and I think we're gonna have
0:00:31another busy show this week.
0:00:32Yep, we're gonna look at the movies later on today.
0:00:34Oh yeah.
0:00:35Everyone's favorite segment.
0:00:37But we do have to do some follow-up and one of the most important pieces of follow-up
0:00:41this week is bringing Serenity Korbla back onto the show. Hi Wren.
0:00:44Hi.
0:00:45So we wanted to do some Apple Pencil follow-up because now both me and Wren have pencils.
0:00:51Because we have them.
0:00:53The big idea last week was that I was going to rely on you guys to tell me about the Apple
0:00:57Pencil. And so we set it all up and nobody could get a pencil. And so we sort of looked at me and
0:01:04I was like, I don't know, but now you both have Apple Pencils. So this is perfect because I can
0:01:10listen to you who actually care about these things in a way that I will never care. Talk about the
0:01:17Apple Pencil. So, Wren, you now have acquired your own pencil and you've
0:01:23You've been doing some drawing and stuff with it.
0:01:25How are you finding the Apple Pencil
0:01:27for the type of stuff that you'd like to do digitally
0:01:30from an artistic perspective?
0:01:31- Well, I have to prevent myself from squeaking
0:01:36on the air right now,
0:01:38'cause that's how I feel about the Apple Pencil.
0:01:40Honestly, I've been drawing digitally for about 16 years,
0:01:45which seems insane to me, by the way.
0:01:48And I started with trackpad drawing
0:01:50and I progressed to Wacom tablets.
0:01:52And when the iPad came out, I did a very--
0:01:54I've used a variety of styluses.
0:01:56And I think we talked about this last week, where
0:01:58there's a lot to be desired from digital drawing.
0:02:03You can't really replicate the feeling of drawing on paper.
0:02:07It's just not going to happen when you have a glass screen or even
0:02:10a plastic screen.
0:02:11So the manufacturers have to focus on other aspects.
0:02:17They have to focus on the lag and the latency being very small, and they have to make sure
0:02:23that the pressure just feels right.
0:02:26And the Apple Pencil has managed to nail both of these things better, as good as Wacom,
0:02:34or if not very, very close.
0:02:36Yeah, I've found that like, so it's still clicky, right?
0:02:41Because it's still plastic on glass.
0:02:44I've noticed that when I'm... because I come at this from a more of a handwriting perspective,
0:02:48so maybe I'm kind of lifting and putting down the pencil more frequently, right?
0:02:54So it does make a tapping sound, which isn't as nice, but fundamentally this is better
0:02:59than anything that I've used as well.
0:03:02And I actually wrote a review of one of the... maybe one or two articles I write in a year.
0:03:07I wrote a review for The Pen Addict from the perspective of somebody who is interested
0:03:13in using the pencil for handwriting. And I have to say that fundamentally this thing
0:03:19is extremely good for handwriting skills. Like to use as something to take digital notes
0:03:28more than anything else ever has been before. Like you don't have to zoom in to a specific
0:03:32area so you can write in a way that's basically not every word filling up an eighth of the
0:03:37screen. The precision that the Apple Pencil is able to give is kind of incredible. Like
0:03:42I can write smaller than it seems that the pencil can actually pick up.
0:03:47So like I'm making movements, which are my regular hand movements, but the
0:03:52pencil tip seems conceivably too thick to make the tiny, tiny text that I'm able to
0:03:57get from it.
0:03:58Like I am incredibly impressed with how responsive and precise this thing is from
0:04:04a handwriting perspective.
0:04:05Well, you think about the other iPad styluses when previously we were trying
0:04:09to write reasonably sized letters with those big gigantic nibs.
0:04:13And even that you could get kind of a simulation of handwriting, but it was just terrible.
0:04:18And you know, despite the fact that I use this primarily for drawing, handwriting is
0:04:21always the first thing I test with a stylus because it tells me very quickly how just
0:04:26how responsive the pen is going to be and how precise the pen is going to be.
0:04:32Because it's a much better real world test for having to trace over lines.
0:04:37And it is one of the first things I tried with the pencil was writing in big letters,
0:04:40writing in smaller letters, and writing in the smallest possible letters that I could
0:04:44think of.
0:04:46And not only was it able to write in what I would call four or five point font, but
0:04:50I was able to outline and trace over those letters with pinpoint precision, which has
0:04:55never happened for a digital stylist that I've used.
0:05:00Again, Wacom comes close.
0:05:02But the Cintiq, I mean the Cintiq line has always felt big and clunky and overburdened
0:05:08to me.
0:05:09Where it's like, okay, there's this big giant display and it's heavy and it has to be tethered
0:05:13to your computer.
0:05:15And the tablet interface is unfortunately terrible.
0:05:18You know, the Cintiq Companion I just wasn't impressed by as a portable solution.
0:05:23And here's this thing.
0:05:24This thing is probably half the weight of the Cintiq Companion and has a retina screen
0:05:29and can connect to your Mac via AstroPad.
0:05:32And you can take notes on it on the go and it just, I don't know.
0:05:36The more I work with the iPad Pro, especially when paired with the pencil, the more impressed
0:05:40I am.
0:05:41I was drawing a birthday card for my little sister this morning.
0:05:44And it was just one of those things where prior to this, if I wanted to do a full color
0:05:51card for somebody, that would probably be nine or ten hours of work because I would
0:05:56do the original sketch.
0:05:58Then I would scan or take a photo of the sketch to put it on my device.
0:06:03Then if I was working on an iPad, I would just have to suffer through at like 200% zoom
0:06:09with one of my styluses and pray that the stroke coming out is the stroke I want.
0:06:15If I was using Photoshop, then I'd have to hook up my Intuos to my laptop.
0:06:20That would mean I'd have to bring my Intuos.
0:06:21I'm on vacation right now, so that's extra stuff and heavy.
0:06:26And then so much, so much effort.
0:06:30Whereas the iPad, I did that in three hours.
0:06:32And I've been doing, I did all of these drawings, I was on the plane, I did three or four live
0:06:37sketches, some with some typography in under three hours.
0:06:41I think I did three or four.
0:06:43And that just, it feels like a real, it doesn't feel like a real pencil in terms of the plastic
0:06:49on glass feeling.
0:06:50That's not going to happen unless Apple figures out a way to make tactics fool your brain.
0:06:55But it feels as close to a real sketchbook as you possibly can with a digital instrument.
0:07:01And the thing that really excites me about this is that Apple's just getting started.
0:07:05This is a 1.0 product, and it doesn't work the way that the Microsoft Surface does.
0:07:11It doesn't work the way that the Wacom does.
0:07:13It's using an entirely new type of technology to try and achieve this, which means that
0:07:17it can only get better from here.
0:07:19And that is mind-blowing to me.
0:07:21That is so exciting.
0:07:24Because Wacom has been working at this for what, 20 years, 25 years now?
0:07:28Apple's on year one publicly.
0:07:31Yeah, that's the thing that blows me away as well, is that this is 1.0.
0:07:36We've gone from me wanting something to me just having what I wanted.
0:07:40But this is the thing that I've wanted since 2010 though, right?
0:07:44Like I've wanted to be able to do this since the iPad was introduced, but only now am I
0:07:49able to do it.
0:07:50it's fine because now I've got what I want and it's perfect.
0:07:54And it's perfect, exactly. It's not half fast.
0:07:57I don't care that I had to wait.
0:07:59It's funny because I've been writing this sort of this experimental series on iMore
0:08:03and people responded after my first day with the pencil being like,
0:08:06"Yeah, but they should have done it three years ago."
0:08:08And I'm like, "No, you know what?
0:08:10They started working on this three or four years ago because that's when we started to see patents."
0:08:14And I like to get a 1.0 that's perfect,
0:08:17I would have so much rather had a 1.0 that was perfect than get a 1.0 that was half-assed
0:08:23and felt like every other stylus on the market.
0:08:26The fact that Apple—and also, you know what?
0:08:27I will defend—a lot of people are like, "Oh man, I love this.
0:08:30Now I want it on an iPad Air or a Mini."
0:08:33I can definitely see this coming to the iPad Air in future installments, but I will defend
0:08:38the 12.9-inch screen with my life the more I use it with the Pro.
0:08:43Because for sketching, it is the perfect size.
0:08:46It really is.
0:08:47It's sketchbook sized.
0:08:49And even for writing, you turn it in portrait and then all of a sudden you have a clipboard
0:08:52that you can write on.
0:08:54It feels so good in my hand.
0:08:56And I feel like I'm just heaping praise on this.
0:09:00There are definitely things that it doesn't do perfectly.
0:09:03But I don't know, I'm just so impressed that Apple was able to do this and make it work
0:09:09so well.
0:09:10And even in third party apps, even third party apps that haven't taken full advantage of
0:09:15the APIs that Apple's now included for the pencil, it still works well.
0:09:20Yeah.
0:09:21Saying about the perfection thing, we both keep saying it's perfect, and you touched
0:09:24on it a little bit.
0:09:26When I say it's perfect, the result is perfect.
0:09:28I actually think the hardware, the Apple Pencil itself, was an incredible feat.
0:09:33Like I was listening to Jason and John on the talk show just before we started, and
0:09:36the idea that it just works.
0:09:38You just pick it up and it works, you plug it in and it charges.
0:09:41There are a couple of things that leave a little bit to be desired.
0:09:45For me personally, I think the fact that it is just a cylinder, it doesn't work for me.
0:09:50I really wish that they would have put a flat edge on this thing or a clip.
0:09:53And I know, I talk about it in the piece that I wrote.
0:09:57The way that Apple tried to combat this is to put magnets in the pencil.
0:10:00So when you put it down it shouldn't roll away.
0:10:03But what I've found is, if you put it down quickly, like if you drop it down on the desk,
0:10:08which is something I do, like I'm writing, I just put it down.
0:10:10Like I don't place, I put it down.
0:10:12If you put it down with any force, the magnets can end up giving the pencil momentum to move
0:10:16further, right?
0:10:17And it just like, off it goes.
0:10:19Like it's just running away from me.
0:10:22Which is, you know, I can see why they did it because the magnets also serve a dual purpose
0:10:26because, well the bytes are magnets, right?
0:10:28So they sort of serve that kind of that dual purpose in the device.
0:10:32I would have liked to have seen a clip.
0:10:33I'm looking forward to what will inevitably be third party clips, right?
0:10:36I just feel like they're going to come.
0:10:38There are already Kickstarters.
0:10:39I don't doubt that.
0:10:40There are probably already just pencil clips and pen clips for other devices, for other
0:10:44pens and pencils that you can just clip on the scene and it will work.
0:10:48But it's just, you know, we're completely gushing about this because for people that
0:10:51care about this thing, it does exactly what we need.
0:10:54And one of the things that I keep coming back to is this thing is so perfect, why is it
0:11:02so difficult for me to get it?
0:11:03I haven't even mentioned how I got this yet.
0:11:05They're still not in London.
0:11:06Marco Arment bought one of these for me and FedExed it from New York.
0:11:11And somehow it got to you.
0:11:13That's how I was able to get my hands on one of these things.
0:11:16There's still, I'm talking to people in London still about this, like in the business teams,
0:11:22they're still not available anywhere in London.
0:11:25And it's like this thing is so amazing and I'm talking about it, everybody's writing
0:11:28about it, everyone's saying how incredible it is, but nobody can actually buy one still.
0:11:32That problem still remains.
0:11:34And it's a little bit shocking to me that Apple, it's shocking to me how poorly this
0:11:40rolled out.
0:11:41But my guess is something happened with quality control, where there was just a huge batch
0:11:47of pencils that something was wrong.
0:11:51And when it comes down to it, just like, would I have rather they shipped it two years ago
0:11:55or would I would I rather they shipped it today?
0:11:58I would much rather pencils get shipped that didn't have terrible defects in them, because
0:12:03then you're looking at a bunch of people who are really upset
0:12:05and they're like, oh, these reviewers told me
0:12:07this pencil is perfect, but then I pulled it out of the box
0:12:10and it has terrible lag, or the pencil tip falls off,
0:12:12or the cap-- you know what?
0:12:14I honestly wouldn't be surprised if shoddy caps were
0:12:18what stopped the whole thing, because I'm still
0:12:20frustrated with the cap.
0:12:21That's one thing we're talking about, build quality.
0:12:24The weight of the pencil feels amazing.
0:12:25I love the length.
0:12:27It's actually the exact same size as one of my HB pencils,
0:12:30which I need to photograph at some point, which
0:12:33is so funny to me. But the lack of a clip is annoying. And the stupid cap. I had what
0:12:43felt like a near death experience where I moved into, I was coming into the RV, you
0:12:49know, where we're staying for vacation, and I dropped all of my stuff on the floor. And
0:12:54then I was I picked up my pencil and the cap was gone. And I had this like, my heart leapt
0:12:59in my chest and I'm like, "Oh my god, I'm never gonna find it again!" And luckily, it
0:13:04wasn't that far away. But I'm like, "This thing could just fall off and I could never
0:13:08see it again." And then I just have this ugly little lightning nib that I'm gonna snap off
0:13:13inevitably. So that is very frustrating to me. And also, I will say, I love the fact
0:13:19that you can charge it with the iPad. Because I was drawing—I forget, I was drawing the
0:13:24other night while watching Jessica Jones and not close to any of my chargers. And I got
0:13:28a blip on the screen that was like, "Apple Pencil is down to 5%!"
0:13:32So all I did was I stuck the pencil into the iPad and set it aside for 10 minutes and that
0:13:37charged it up to like 45%.
0:13:40That kind of thing is really, it's a really smart idea.
0:13:43But Apple, you have a smart connector on the iPad.
0:13:48Why lightning and not the smart connector?
0:13:51Maybe it's just the quick charge wouldn't work quite as well, but sticking the pencil
0:13:56out of the device just does feel very awkward.
0:13:59As cool as it is.
0:14:00It's still goofy.
0:14:01Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
0:14:03And very precarious.
0:14:05My boyfriend almost snapped it off while we were sitting on the couch and charging it.
0:14:10I'm like, "Ah, okay."
0:14:11One thing that I find weird about that is it doesn't sit flush.
0:14:16No, it doesn't. It pops out a little bit.
0:14:18Yeah, which I really don't like that part.
0:14:20It's crazy enough not having to do this, but it wobbles in there.
0:14:24it doesn't go all the way in and that freaks me out. But I will say
0:14:29the same thing. I was taking some notes earlier and I noticed it was down to 10%
0:14:32I was just gonna take a break for a bit I just plugged it in 10 minutes later
0:14:36and it's at like 60% just like well I mean you know it's like I get why
0:14:41they're doing it this way but it you know it still kind of is a little bit
0:14:44like ah but it does work right so and it's the way I would do it is I have the
0:14:48device with me I'll just plug it in it basically takes no power away from the
0:14:52iPad to charge the thing, it works, but it's still super freaky as a thing to do.
0:14:58Yeah, exactly. That's the part of it that really feels like a 1.0 to me. And again,
0:15:03I wouldn't be surprised if the cap is what's holding up a lot of pencil shipments. I ended
0:15:10up getting one, ironically, I had the PR team finally send me one, and then it got delayed
0:15:18because of a crazy shipping malfunction.
0:15:21So I ran, I heard that pencils in the Northeast
0:15:24might have gotten around.
0:15:26So I ran to the nearest, my nearest store
0:15:29and they had like eight on display.
0:15:31And it took all of my gumption not to buy all eight
0:15:34and send them to various people that I knew who wanted them.
0:15:37But I just, I ended up just getting one.
0:15:39And then the other one came the next day.
0:15:41So now I have two pencils,
0:15:43but one is still in the box because I feel like.
0:15:46Yeah, when mine arrived, I was like, "Great, I'll cancel my order."
0:15:50So I cancelled my online order and now I've regretted it because I'm like, "Oh, I'm going
0:15:53to lose this.
0:15:54I'm going to lose it, I'm going to break it, and then my life's going to be over."
0:15:57So I know I need to track one down now.
0:16:00So I'm probably going to do that.
0:16:01I need a spare.
0:16:02Yeah, I feel like I need a spare because this has so quickly become an integral part of
0:16:07my workflow that if I lose this or break it, I'm going to be so sad because it's so nice.
0:16:16I have sketched more in the past four days than I have sketched in three years.
0:16:23It's fluid, it's natural.
0:16:26I wrote 3,000 words on it on iMore just because it's so easy to and I haven't even done thorough
0:16:32handwriting.
0:16:34I've been doing typography with my drawings, but Myke, it sounds like it's really phenomenal.
0:16:39We haven't even talked about palm rejection, how good palm rejection is.
0:16:43It's magical.
0:16:44So this is the thing, right?
0:16:45So one of the issues that I've always had with palm rejection, like the palm rejection
0:16:48that people build in software is I'm left-handed.
0:16:51And it tends to be that there may be left-handed modes, but they tend not to get the same amount
0:16:55of care and love.
0:16:56But the palm rejection, like I was just testing this, like I was just drawing a line on the
0:16:59pencil and running my other hand all over the iPad and nothing happens.
0:17:03It's like the pencil is the only thing that's recognized.
0:17:07It works perfectly.
0:17:08Like the handwriting, it's just, you know, I write with this thing and it looks the way
0:17:13I would expect it to look and that is the most important part for me.
0:17:16And the palm rejection is 100% perfect for me.
0:17:20I like lay on this thing and write like the same way
0:17:23that I would be laying on a table and writing.
0:17:25But there's one other point, though, that I find really interesting,
0:17:29which is using the pencil as an input method for the iPad forced up.
0:17:35Yes. Like I sit and just use the I use the iPad
0:17:40with a pen. Like it is for stylists constantly and it works great because
0:17:44there are some things where the precision really helps like text
0:17:47selection like hitting a word and dragging the the pointers is way easier
0:17:51with the pencil. I sit and like scroll lists in Tweetbot and one of the reasons
0:17:55this is so comfortable for me is for the last maybe month I've been using a
0:17:59Intuos tablet a Wacom Intuos tablet to control my iMac. Like that is how I now
0:18:05interact with my iMac so it works so perfectly for me to pick up the pencil
0:18:09so I can interact with my iPad in that way.
0:18:12One thing that I tried that I liked
0:18:14was I installed the SwiftKey keyboard
0:18:17and I was using the swipe stuff
0:18:18like as a way to type out messages.
0:18:20You just swipe it, but keyboard support on the iPad
0:18:23sucks so bad that you kind of don't want
0:18:25to really use it seriously.
0:18:26But like eventually when they fix the keyboard problem,
0:18:30it will work even better for me.
0:18:31But like I've just been really pleased
0:18:34with just using this device with a pencil
0:18:38and it works so great for me to just like tap this piece of UI, drag this over here,
0:18:43drop it down, type something with both hands, pick it back up.
0:18:46I could not be happier and it is complete.
0:18:50I mean, I already love the iPad Pro, but now it's like a whole next level.
0:18:54The pencil makes more of a difference to the iPad Pro to me than any hardware
0:19:00keyboard ever will. Whereas the hardware keyboards, they're nice for writing.
0:19:05But you're absolutely right.
0:19:06It's funny to me because I think of the pencil
0:19:09as very much an old world device, right?
0:19:11Pens are one of the earliest things we moved to after touch.
0:19:16It's like, okay, now we're cave painting.
0:19:18Oh, hey, we can sharpen a stick and then write with it.
0:19:21Hey, that works.
0:19:22So it's so funny to me that we're going back
0:19:25to that sort of integral, we're holding an input device,
0:19:29but we're also using our fingers.
0:19:31And we also have the opportunity to use the keyboard.
0:19:33And it really gives like what I love about the iPad Pro right now is that it's giving you the option to choose
0:19:39Which input device is best for you at what particular point and I absolutely agree with you about the input people being like me
0:19:48Mmm stylus is blah blah blah doomed
0:19:50Can go just sit in a corner because here's the thing some people, you know
0:19:55Some people don't want to touch the screen all the time
0:19:58or you're right, absolutely the precision.
0:20:01I've been using the pencil to do a lot of video editing.
0:20:04And what's really, really cool about iMovie on the iPad Pro,
0:20:08and it is very limited,
0:20:10but there are some really great gestures
0:20:13that allow you to do things
0:20:16that you would normally just use keyboard commands for.
0:20:19And one of those things is cutting up clips.
0:20:21You swipe down to cut a clip in two.
0:20:23And I've been using the pencil to cut and move clips around
0:20:26with no problems whatsoever.
0:20:28And I love it. And I also, I love that you can use both the pencil and touch
0:20:32gestures. You know, you can do multiple things at once with it.
0:20:35And it's just, I don't know, it feels so natural.
0:20:39And the fact that this is 1.0 just makes me so excited for
0:20:43all of Apple's problems with 1.0 products in the last year.
0:20:47They're like, we're going to mess up everything else, but the pencil is going to be
0:20:52the one good 1.0 product.
0:20:54You just wait, guys. It's all going to be OK.
0:20:56Now that's how I feel like, you know, we've had so many things on the show
0:21:00recently that have made us sad and angry.
0:21:02Um, but this one, you know, it's, it's filling me with the joy and delight
0:21:06that Apple products should and have done for so many years.
0:21:09Yeah.
0:21:11And even if you're not a sketch, like someone who draws or someone
0:21:14who writes with any regularity, I really think you should go give a pencil a shot.
0:21:19Like people listening, if you can find one and even just in the demo room,
0:21:22it's so funny to me because I've been giving, you know, I've had my iPad
0:21:25I'd purl around and people are like, "Oh, hey, that's a thing."
0:21:29And I'll hand the pencil to them and step one I say, "You can put your hand on the screen."
0:21:33Because inevitably they start to try and write curved around.
0:21:38And I'm like, "No, put your hand on the screen."
0:21:40And then I say, "Try writing."
0:21:42Because they automatically dismiss writing as something that you could even do with the
0:21:45pencil.
0:21:46And their face, like everybody I've handed this to, their faces light up in a way that's
0:21:52really, really impressive to me.
0:21:55The original iPad made some people really excited.
0:21:58Some of my friends really excited and some people were just like, whatever.
0:22:01The pencil, everybody I have tried this is like, Oh my gosh, I could use this.
0:22:07I need this.
0:22:08This is awesome.
0:22:09Like it's universal joy, which is really awesome.
0:22:12Well done.
0:22:14Yeah, I'm, we could probably do this forever.
0:22:17But I'm concerned Jason's actually just left the room now.
0:22:20I know Jason's like, I'm bored.
0:22:22He's sleeping.
0:22:23I'm getting a lot of other unrelated work done right now, so thank you.
0:22:28There you go.
0:22:29I did want to say really quickly before we wrap up, I tested the Microsoft Surface Book
0:22:37and Surface Pro 4 against the iPad Pro.
0:22:40Not really against, it was more like I visited the Windows Central offices and was like,
0:22:44"Hey guys, let me draw on your Surface Book for a little while."
0:22:48Because I know some artists who have a Surface right now and are like, "Well, I just spent
0:22:52this money? Should I go over to an iPad Pro? What's different? What's awesome? The Surface
0:22:58is still pretty good. The Ntrig technology that powers the Surface's pen is actually
0:23:04not bad. But I think the Pencil wins hands down in writing, just absolutely. Even though
0:23:13the Surface runs a full operating system, I think that there's so much you can do with
0:23:18the iPad as is and then also you introduce apps like AstroPad which turn your display
0:23:24into a second screen specifically for artist work.
0:23:28So using Photoshop or any app that has those kinds of compatible tools.
0:23:34There's a lot of ways to work around this and there are great native apps on the iPad
0:23:39that you can start a drawing, say in Procreate and export it to Photoshop if you really need
0:23:42to finish in Photoshop.
0:23:45I don't necessarily know if people should trash their Surface and immediately run out
0:23:49and buy an iPad.
0:23:50The Surface is still a pretty good tablet.
0:23:53But I think it's a difference between, "Microsoft, you did a pretty good job.
0:23:58This is not a bad tablet."
0:24:00And it's an interesting concept to, "The iPad Pro is the device that I want to carry around.
0:24:04The Pencil is the device that I would, hands down, buy this in a second, not look back."
0:24:09About a shadow of a doubt.
0:24:10No, I'm sure you're going to continue writing tons of great stuff on iMore.com about all
0:24:15of this. So much, so much. Wren, thank you so much for joining me because Jason
0:24:20wouldn't have given me this level of excitement back. I'm here for you
0:24:25Myke by bringing in other people to be here for you. Wren, thank you so much for
0:24:29joining us. Where else can people find you online? Thanks, Myke. I can be
0:24:34found at @Sattern on Twitter and Instagram and of course on iMore
0:24:39every single day where I'll be writing and drawing lots about the iPad Pro and
0:24:44Pencil. Thank you, Ran. Thank you.
0:24:46All right, Jason, let me take a quick break and thank our first
0:24:49sponsor for this week, and that is Braintree Code for Easy Online Payments.
0:24:55If you are a mobile app developer, you should check out Braintree.
0:24:58Braintree is the payment solution used by companies like Uber,
0:25:01Airbnb, Hotel Tonight, Living Social and Muntree.
0:25:04Braintree has made the payment experiences in these apps
0:25:07completely seamless, almost magical, you could say.
0:25:10And now you can add a similar experience to your own app as well.
0:25:14With excellent customer service and simple integration,
0:25:17Braintree will get you ready to receive payments quickly.
0:25:20Braintree's continuous support plus fast payouts means that you'll be prepared
0:25:24as your company grows from your first dollar to your billionth.
0:25:28Braintree is also here to help solve the problem of mobile cart abandonment
0:25:32by offering a best in class mobile checkout experience.
0:25:36When your customers add something to their checkout, Braintree is going to make sure
0:25:39that it makes it super, super simple, super easy to make sure that they stick
0:25:43with their purchase.
0:25:46Braintree also make payment experiences in some of your favorite apps
0:25:49seamless and magical.
0:25:50Now you can add a similar experience to your own app as well
0:25:54with a full stack payment solution support for all payment types
0:25:58that your customers might want, including PayPal, Apple Pay, Bitcoin, Venmo,
0:26:01cards and more, all of a single integration.
0:26:04And it's with you across all platforms as well with superior for protection
0:26:09and their fantastic customer service,
0:26:10and again, those fast payouts.
0:26:12To learn more, and for your first $50,000 in transactions,
0:26:15fee free, go to Braintreepayments.com/upgrade.
0:26:19Thank you so much to Braintree
0:26:20for their support of this show.
0:26:22So Jason, would you feel better now
0:26:25if we spoke about some kind of clicky keyboard for a while?
0:26:27Would that make you feel a little bit better?
0:26:29- We talked about the keyboard a lot last time.
0:26:31It's fine, it's good.
0:26:33We're still in the follow-up too, do you realize that?
0:26:35- I am fully aware of that.
0:26:36That was like a, we'll have to come up with some new name
0:26:39for what we just did.
0:26:40- Yeah, I don't know.
0:26:41That's another John Sirakusen not approved adjective to use
0:26:46to describe this thing or preposition, I guess.
0:26:49Follow over.
0:26:50- But there is a piece of follow up.
0:26:52- Yes, there was special guest follow up.
0:26:54It's good, it's exciting.
0:26:55- Special guest follow up.
0:26:56There we go, we got it.
0:26:57Nice work.
0:26:58There was something from a couple of weeks ago
0:27:00that we mentioned that you ended up digging up,
0:27:01which was you mentioned in passing a week,
0:27:04Or was it a month where Apple basically announced something
0:27:07every day, right?
0:27:09Oh, it was even longer than that.
0:27:11It was a long, long stretch of time
0:27:13where they kept on-- every Tuesday,
0:27:16there'd be another press release that would drop.
0:27:18And at some point, we mentioned to the PR people, hey,
0:27:22it's been three or four weeks in a row with press releases.
0:27:24And they said, we're just getting started.
0:27:26It's going to be a busy year.
0:27:27And we all looked at each other like, seriously?
0:27:29And sure enough, the next week, another press release,
0:27:31and the next week, another press release.
0:27:33went on seemingly forever.
0:27:35- And they have an awful stuff.
0:27:37What are some of your favorite highlights
0:27:38from 2008's press release madness?
0:27:41- So 2008, it turns out, I did dig around
0:27:44and find that 2008 was the right time.
0:27:462008, at the beginning of the year, let's see,
0:27:51they, on the 8th of January, they introduced a new Mac Pro
0:27:54and they introduced the Xserve.
0:27:55On the 15th, they introduced the MacBook Air time capsule.
0:28:01I think this is basically a Mac World Expo keynote.
0:28:05iPhone software update, iPod touch software update,
0:28:09Apple TV software update.
0:28:11That was the Mac World Expo keynote.
0:28:14On the 22nd of January, they added a pink iPod nano.
0:28:20- Big deal, seriously.
0:28:24- But seriously, that was one of those things
0:28:26where it's like, we need a press release this week,
0:28:28but we're really tired from Mac World Expo.
0:28:30What should we do?
0:28:31just put the pink nano in the press release and that'll be fine. There's a whole press
0:28:34release about "Apple adds pink to the iPod nano lineup." Literally, that is what the
0:28:39press release is. Oh, these were innocent times. On January 30th, they announced that
0:28:44the MacBook Air was shipping, after having announced it 15 days before. On February 5th,
0:28:50they added new iPhone and iPod Touch models, which is that basically they did a 16 gig
0:28:59iPhone and 32 version of the iPod touch. So they added some new sizes of the iPhone and
0:29:07iPod touch. On the 12th, they released Aperture 2. On the 19th, they cut the price of the
0:29:13iPod shuffle and introduced the X-San, which is their crazy storage thing for the X-Serve.
0:29:18On the 26th, they introduced new MacBooks and MacBook Pros.
0:29:22- Are you putting our listeners through the hell now that you had to go through? Is that
0:29:25what's happening here?
0:29:26Then it was March, Myke! And in March, March 6th, they did an iPhone 2.0 software beta.
0:29:34March 12th, they did an announcement about how many developers had downloaded the iPhone
0:29:39SDK. That was a light week, I guess. March 17th, they introduced the new Airport Express.
0:29:44And the next day, they introduced a new version of Safari, a new version of Aperture on March
0:29:4828th. They did some iTunes stuff in the first week of April, so that was kind of a Slack
0:29:55week, but there were two press releases that week anyway. The next week they announced
0:29:59the Final Cut server was shipping. A couple weeks after that, they did their financial
0:30:05results and the week after that, they updated the iMac. So it trailed off in April, but
0:30:11January, February, March, pretty much every week we were scrambling on a Tuesday because
0:30:16there was an Apple product rollout. It was pretty insane because... And we contrast that
0:30:21with what has happened this fall where they had one event and they announced basically
0:30:27everything and we've just been watching it roll out, which is a little bit of a different
0:30:32strategy.
0:30:33But then what was quite funny is the June, July of that year was probably one of the
0:30:38most in history most important announcements that Apple ever made, which was the iPhone
0:30:433G and the App Store and the SDK and all that sort of stuff all came in that year as well.
0:30:48It's a huge, huge year.
0:30:50- Yeah, oh yeah, 'cause yeah, you got the iPhone 3G
0:30:53and they kept on rolling out the SDK
0:30:55and then we had the big launch of the app store
0:30:59and that all happened and then they took a nap.
0:31:03- Yeah, until the end of the year.
0:31:04So it's quite funny, right?
0:31:05We've been inundated over the last couple of months
0:31:09with product releases, but 2008 is an example
0:31:12that it all happened then, but just at the start of the year,
0:31:15they just did everything.
0:31:17- Yeah, and it's funny 'cause in October of that year,
0:31:19They did the unibody MacBook.
0:31:21That was the first unibody MacBook was in October.
0:31:25And then the big news, the big news, Myke,
0:31:27in November, they hired Mark Papermaster.
0:31:32- Everybody's favorite Papermaster.
0:31:33- Several months later, they fired.
0:31:35And then to top it all off in December of that year,
0:31:39that is when they cut all ties with Macworld
0:31:42and announced it was their last year and all of that.
0:31:45That was a, so it was an eventful year,
0:31:47but a pretty crazy start to it.
0:31:49The heady days of 2008, right?
0:31:52Those were wild times.
0:31:53Wild times.
0:31:54Talking about wild times, you have gone ahead and launched a new subscription.
0:31:59Would you call it a subscription?
0:32:01How are you describing what you've done here with Six Colors?
0:32:04Yeah, so a couple weeks ago I launched it.
0:32:06This is the way for people, I've been hearing from the beginning that people wanted to support
0:32:10me in doing Six Colors and they're not going to be sponsors because they don't have products
0:32:14to sponsor or something like that, but they wanted to find some way to do it.
0:32:16And I listened to that and then got really uncomfortable
0:32:20about asking people for money for quite a while.
0:32:22And then two weeks ago,
0:32:23I launched what I'm calling Six Color Subscriptions.
0:32:26I actually had a whole,
0:32:29there's a whole thought process behind that, right?
0:32:31About whether you call it subscriptions or memberships
0:32:32or the club or what,
0:32:35or support or patronage or something like that.
0:32:37And I decided that subscription was what I wanted to say
0:32:42partially, maybe that's my background
0:32:44of working for a magazine for all that time.
0:32:46But the idea is you are subscribing.
0:32:48It is an ongoing relationship.
0:32:50The reality is you are paying annual or monthly amount
0:32:55of money to get some stuff.
0:32:57And it does have the net effect of supporting the site,
0:33:00but I wanted to not have it just be purely like,
0:33:04give me money because you'll feel good about giving me money.
0:33:07I wanted to have some other things around it.
0:33:09So I just decided to sit on the wording of subscription
0:33:13and subscriber and rather than like a membership and member,
0:33:16which I thought about, I just, I, for whatever reason,
0:33:21this is the, this is the one I was more comfortable with.
0:33:23- That's the world you come from, I think.
0:33:25I think that might be part of it.
0:33:27Like, you know, subscription was the word that you used
0:33:30in your brain to tie this thing together, right?
0:33:32Magazines.
0:33:33- Yeah, exactly, exactly right.
0:33:35I, well, I decided to go with that theme too.
0:33:37So rather than having a, like, I was gonna do a weekly
0:33:40or a monthly newsletter, and Federico came out with Max Stories, Club Max Stories, and
0:33:47the Max Stories Weekly Newsletter. And I thought, okay, well, do I really want to go down that
0:33:51path of having something that sounds very much like what Federico did, even though,
0:33:56you know, I was working on this before I ever heard that he was working on it. I just delayed
0:34:01it forever, and his delay was less than mine. But I didn't want to seem like I was producing
0:34:06the same thing as Federico because I just didn't want to do that. I didn't want to be
0:34:09seen as a copycat. So I thought about the idea of calling, rather than calling it a
0:34:16newsletter, calling it a magazine, you know, for reference point of where I come from and
0:34:23also that it is a thing that you get, you know, in your box every so often. And by not
0:34:28saying it's weekly or monthly, that gives me some latitude, you know, it's going to
0:34:32be monthly at least, but we could decide to do it more often. And by calling it Six Colors
0:34:37magazine, this newsletter that shows up in your box if you're a subscriber, then I had
0:34:43the leeway to do that, to change the frequency of it as we see fit. So that all kind of was
0:34:48in there. But, you know, rather than calling it a club that you could become a member of,
0:34:53I decided to go with the other approach, again, because reasons, but still, yeah, that was
0:35:00-- you're right, it does go back to sort of like this is the world that I'm from, but
0:35:03I think more than that it's also the world that I'm somewhat identified with, and I kind
0:35:06of wanted to play on that. So as well as the warm fuzzy feeling that you get for
0:35:12supporting you and Dan, right, I assume this will also be helping support Dan
0:35:16Morrow as well as Mr. Jason Snow. Well I mean I'm paying Dan to write for the
0:35:20site and by having if I have more of a budget then then I can I can pay more to
0:35:25Dan and he can help with the magazine newsletter thing and yes so yes is the
0:35:30answer it's not direct because it's basically the way it works at Six Colors
0:35:34is me and it's my company and then I pay Dan. Dan is basically a
0:35:40contractor so more work for Dan is more money for Dan and that's I
0:35:44think that Dan likes that and we like working together and we're it so
0:35:49yeah. So as well as that warm fuzzy feeling people the perk if you would
0:35:54call it is the magazine then right that is the little additional thing
0:35:57that members will get as a thank you for being a member or a subscriber sorry. I
0:36:01I wanted it to be, sure, whatever.
0:36:04I wanted it, I just, I had this strong feeling
0:36:08that I didn't want, I think the primary reason
0:36:11you support a site or a podcast or whatever
0:36:14is because you want to feel good about supporting it.
0:36:16I think that is the number one reason you do it.
0:36:19I didn't want a pure patronage thing where it's like,
0:36:23look, please donate because you'll feel good.
0:36:25I wanted, I wanna give something back.
0:36:28I want there to be something that's part of it
0:36:29that's tangible, even if it's not something,
0:36:32even if people don't ever read the magazine,
0:36:35the newsletter, whatever it ends up looking like,
0:36:38even if they don't actually use that.
0:36:40I was talking to Sean Blanc about this
0:36:42because he's got a membership for his site.
0:36:44And he said, you know, he does a podcast
0:36:49and for members, which I'm not gonna do
0:36:51because there are too many podcasts that I'm on already.
0:36:54But I don't, he expressed to me some skepticism
0:36:59about whether a lot of the members actually listen to the podcast, but it's good that
0:37:03it's there. And I agree completely with that idea that psychologically, I think it's good
0:37:07to feel like you get something out of it. That not only are you doing something good
0:37:11and supportive for something you like, but you do get something in return, even if it's
0:37:15not the, you know, if you didn't know who I was and you didn't care about what I do,
0:37:21and entirely you're viewing it as a transaction that is, I give you money and you give me
0:37:25this newsletter. I don't think that's a good enough balance, right? I think, and I had
0:37:31a couple people email me and say, "Why would I give you $60 a year for a newsletter?" My
0:37:37answer is, if all you're doing is paying the money to get the newsletter, it's probably
0:37:42not a good deal for you. You know, you need to be kind of, this is about supporting me
0:37:48to write more things on the site that I give away for free that you're not going to get
0:37:51as a special. You're going to get it like everybody else gets it, but you're going to
0:37:54one of the people who makes that happen. And as a thank you, there will be some nice things
0:37:59that we do that nobody else can see that you will get to see. But the primary purpose of
0:38:03supporting the site is to give us the ability to write more stuff on the site for everybody
0:38:08to see. And then the bonuses are just a little bit extra because I feel like I didn't want
0:38:14it to be completely intangible, that all you get is warm fuzzies. I want it to be warm
0:38:18fuzzies and other stuff too. And so that's what the that is if we do a if we do a like
0:38:24a membership subscriber only forum at some point that would be a similar thing. If we
0:38:29offer like discounts or deals or something it'll be a similar thing but those are not
0:38:33going to be we're not going to gate stuff on the site nor is that the primary objective
0:38:39of the of the of the membership is it's not to do that and I've I've also heard from people
0:38:44that who have asked, I mean, you get a lot of questions like this, like, "Why can't
0:38:50you charge me less? I don't want to give you $6 a month, but I would give you $2 a
0:38:55month." And my answer is, "I'm asking for $6 a month. That's a decision I made."
0:38:59And you know, that's the threshold. And if you don't feel strongly enough about this
0:39:03to hit the threshold, that's fine. The site's still going to be there. But that's the
0:39:08number that I decided to set, and $60 a year. Also, the site's called Six Colors, so there
0:39:13we're going to be sixes in the prices. That's how it is.
0:39:15Personal brand, right?
0:39:17I guess. I don't have a specific affinity for the number six, and I'm colorblind. And
0:39:23yet here we are.
0:39:24What are you going to do? You're stuck in it now, Jason. You had a good idea for a name
0:39:28and now it controls everything. That's how these things go.
0:39:30The domain was available.
0:39:32Yep.
0:39:33Mm-hmm.
0:39:34The pricing is, you say, $6 a month, $60 a year. So basically you get two months free
0:39:37if you sign up for a year. How have you felt about the reaction so far, the response? Has
0:39:43it been good? Have you been happy with it?
0:39:45Yeah, I think the response has been fantastic. It's been very supportive. It's not too surprising
0:39:51in the sense that one of the reasons that this actually happened is because I heard
0:39:55from so many people who said, "I want to support what you're doing." And right now there's
0:40:00no way to support what you're doing. And we're living in this world where Kickstarter exists
0:40:04and Patreon exists, and I had sponsors on the site, but no direct means of support for
0:40:12readers. And to get back to the subscriber thing, a lot of the people discovered me from
0:40:17a place where there was a subscription relationship, right? It's like, there was a way when you
0:40:23read Macworld, you felt like if you were reading the magazine, you paid for it. And so there
0:40:29was that connection there, and you had ads in it too, but you were a participant in that
0:40:33process. And I learned a lot when I was at IDG about the fact that, especially in harder
0:40:38times when things like sponsorship advertising revenue can drain away, it really is helpful
0:40:43that you've got people who read your stuff and are willing to give you money for it because
0:40:48that is another way you can weather a storm. And a lot of the executives at IDG come from
0:40:54the sales side. Almost all of them originate as being ad salespeople. And it's interesting
0:40:59to see, you know, in good times the business decisions are all made sort of with the audience
0:41:06as a secondary thought. I'll put it nicely, like it's all about the customer or the advertisers,
0:41:13not the readers. The readers are your product basically, they're the audience, but your
0:41:17customers are the advertisers. And it's funny, being through a couple of economic downturns,
0:41:23the great recession and also the dot-com bubble burst. It's amazing how quickly those attitudes
0:41:29change among the business people when the advertisers all kind of disappear. And suddenly,
0:41:36at IDG anyway, having that subscriber base became incredibly powerful, like, "Oh, I didn't
0:41:42realize that people were giving us money." Yes, people, they are your customer too. And
0:41:48And so I've never forgotten that. And I like, as I'm setting out on my own here, between
0:41:56the feedback that I got from people and trying to have a diverse set of places where I make
0:42:02money, that seemed like a good idea to me. The idea that if I can't sell sponsors on
0:42:08the site, that the site still has a way that it's supporting me. And quite honestly, you
0:42:12know, if I had three or four weeks where, which hasn't happened, but if I had three
0:42:16or four weeks where there were no sponsors on the site before, essentially I'm doing
0:42:19Six Colors completely for free at that point, because there was no other means of support.
0:42:23And I know some of this is just psychological, but now I feel like even if I have no sponsors
0:42:28on the site, the site is still operating because I have subscribers. It doesn't matter that
0:42:34I don't have sponsors some weeks, which I've been very fortunate. I have had very few open
0:42:39weeks -- shocking compared to what I expected, actually, when I started -- of sponsors not
0:42:44being on the site, but you get my point that if they were to vanish, I would still have
0:42:49a reason to do the site because the readers are also supporting the site and that makes
0:42:54me feel good. So people have been positive. It's unsurprising given like it was one of
0:43:00my motivators for doing it, that people have been very supportive, very positive. And like
0:43:05I said, I think I've received two emails from people saying, "I don't think I'm going to
0:43:09pay you," which...
0:43:10I think that's a pretty good ratio to be honest, Jason.
0:43:12It's somewhat surprising because the internet
0:43:15is full of people who want to tell you things
0:43:17that they don't need to tell you.
0:43:19That they can just-- it's fine.
0:43:20It's like, seriously, it's fine if you
0:43:22disagree with what I write.
0:43:23It's fine if you don't think that what I do is valuable.
0:43:28That's actually-- it's fine.
0:43:29The site's also not going anywhere.
0:43:30It's free for you anyway.
0:43:32But sometimes people have this behavior on the internet.
0:43:34It's like, well, no, I'm going to tell you
0:43:35that I'm unfollowing you on Twitter.
0:43:37It's like, why?
0:43:38Why do that?
0:43:38I'm going to tell you that I don't think it's worth it.
0:43:40So I had two people who wrote in and said,
0:43:42I don't think it's worth it." And I wrote back very politely and I said, "Well, sort
0:43:46of what I just said to you, which is the site's still going to be there. These are the prices.
0:43:50If you feel like supporting me, you know, you're not just doing it for the newsletter.
0:43:53This isn't like Stratechery where Ben Thompson writes an amazing newsletter five days a week
0:43:59and only one of those gets posted online. It's not the same kind of balance. This is
0:44:02more about supporting the public site and also getting some bonuses. And if you don't
0:44:08feel comfortable with the way that it works, that's fine, the site's still there, please
0:44:12read it and thanks for reading it." So I wrote back to both of those people with that and
0:44:17one of them wrote me back and said they subscribed. And seriously, that's where I am. It's weird,
0:44:23this is a funny world that we live in with patronage, with Patreons and Kickstarters
0:44:28and things like that. But I would say overall it's been positive and I'd say that my initial
0:44:34account of members is pretty much what I hoped it would be. I think it's something to build
0:44:41on. I would like over time to continue to grow the number of members and not feel like
0:44:45-- if you told me that in six months my membership number would be what it is today, more or
0:44:50less, I would be disappointed, but I'm very happy with where it is right now as a starting
0:44:56point.
0:44:57So it's where you want it to be now, obviously not where you want it to be going forward,
0:45:01that's kind of accepted because it should go up over time.
0:45:07You would hope, I mean, you would hope that I would build subscribers and not lose them.
0:45:12That's always a bad sign.
0:45:13But in the end, if you back up and look at the bigger picture here, I now have two ways
0:45:21that I make money from Six Colors.
0:45:22That allows me to have Six Colors be more prioritized, more part of my job.
0:45:26It allows me to say no to some of the freelance assignments that I've taken.
0:45:30I didn't plan when I quit my job to be a freelancer, I planned to do podcasting on Six Colors,
0:45:35but I had freelance work offered to me and so I took it, but it takes up time that could
0:45:42go to Six Colors. So one of the things that this does in addition to diversifying my income
0:45:47is it allows me to turn away from some work that is not the work that I want to do, which
0:45:54is the work on Six Colors. So it's good. It's been great. It's been a great experience.
0:46:01And I could not stop doing everything else I do and just do Six Colors, and the addition
0:46:07of the membership revenue doesn't really change that. But when I was talking to John Gruber
0:46:12over the weekend on the talk show, I said to him, I think it's a very similar story
0:46:17to the story that he has, which is, I would like it if my job was do the podcast that
0:46:21I do and do six colors. I would like it if that was my entire job and I think that would
0:46:25be great. And right now it's not. I also scramble around and do some freelance stuff too. And
0:46:31some of that freelance work is great. I mean it's fun writing at Macworld every week. I
0:46:34am writing there way more than I ever used to and they pay me and that's also nice. But
0:46:39I also pick up lots of other assignments that are like, "Eh, you know, it's an assignment."
0:46:44I'm not going to denigrate them on the air, right? But some of them are more mercenary
0:46:49than others and I would really rather not do those and pour that effort into Six Colors
0:46:54stuff.
0:46:55So people should go and sign up, where can they sign up?
0:46:57You go to sixcolors.com/subscribe or if you just go to sixcolors.com there's a big link
0:47:04at the top of the page that is become a subscriber that would also get you there.
0:47:09And it's as we said six dollars a month or sixty dollars a year.
0:47:12We're using Memberfull which is the same system that Federico uses for Max Stories and that
0:47:17that Ben Thompson uses for Stratechery. It uses Stripe for payments, so it's a credit
0:47:21card payment. You can't use PayPal. I wish there were a way for people to use PayPal,
0:47:27but that's just not how Memberful is set up. And yeah, if you like what I write at Six
0:47:34Colors and want to support me, that would be the best way to do it.
0:47:39>> L
0:47:39listeners who were hanging around on the livestream last week, Jason, they found out a very exciting
0:47:45little easter egg which has occurred. Who is subscriber number one?
0:47:50Who is subscriber number one? Is it you? It is me. Do you remember? Last week? 001, that's
0:47:55my number. I'm the subscriber number one. That was a lot of subscribers ago now, Myke.
0:47:58I mean, you're just one of the pack now. One of the many now. One of the horde. Yeah, I
0:48:03have to go way back and review older orders scroll to get back to you but but I appreciate
0:48:09that you were well I turned it on right it was the test uh-huh and I finally turned it
0:48:14on and said hey it's turned on and he went okay I got right in there mr. m hurley there
0:48:19it is ordered member number one Joe Steele your member number four there was one was
0:48:27it all good about this little stuff one very quick thing I want to mention we sell t-shirts
0:48:30at Relay FM, lovely Relay FM t-shirts. We're currently doing a 40% off sale for the holidays.
0:48:36I'll put a link in the show notes. You want to use the coupon code "allthegreatshirts"
0:48:39at the Relay FM store and you'll get 40% off. We have men and women's shirts in a bunch
0:48:43of different sizes. I think we want to do a new design next year, so we're doing a little
0:48:49bit of a sale for 2015 to kind of get rid of some of that stock. So go in there, all
0:48:53the great shirts, you get 40% off.
0:48:55And we should say there is a plan, there is a plan, early in the new year for an awesome
0:49:02upgrade item.
0:49:04Piece of apparel.
0:49:06Seriously this is just the best.
0:49:09So next year.
0:49:10Let me just take our second break for this week and thank our good friends over at Smile
0:49:15and today I want to talk to you about TextExpander.
0:49:17If you ever type the same sentences, phrases or words on a regular basis over and over
0:49:22again then you need TextExpander in your life.
0:49:24TextExpander will be able to save you time and effort by expanding your short abbreviations
0:49:30into frequently used text, even pictures if you want to.
0:49:33TextExpander is an app that will improve your communication.
0:49:36So let's say for example you are somebody who you send a lot of emails and a lot of
0:49:40the emails that you send have very similar text in or you know you send some support
0:49:45email or maybe you send out maybe you work in HR team and you send out an email which
0:49:49asks people for references or maybe you do what I do right like I send a bunch of emails
0:49:53to sponsors and I send in information for payment stuff and things like that.
0:49:59It is really, really easy with TextExpander to make all of this stuff consistent and quick.
0:50:03So you can type in a regular response and you can have little dropdown fields so you
0:50:07can personalize them, which I do.
0:50:09And what it will do is it just gives you a way to, one, make your communication more
0:50:13consistent.
0:50:14So you're sending the exact same thing to different people, which is like tweaks if
0:50:17you want it.
0:50:18But it also allows you to save time because you're not sitting there and writing that
0:50:21stuff out all the time.
0:50:22Like you know, like at the end of the week I send some stuff out to our sponsors to confirm
0:50:25some stuff and I use TextExpander to help me get through that, those pile of emails
0:50:30super quickly because otherwise I'll be sitting there for ages and I love TextExpander for
0:50:34that sort of stuff.
0:50:36TextExpander has a new look and feel now with TextExpander 5 and it can help you type even
0:50:40faster than ever before because now TextExpander will make suggestions of frequently typed
0:50:45phrases to abbreviate and save time for you.
0:50:47I also use TextExpander for common errors that I make.
0:50:51So if I make a spelling mistake frequently or if I don't capitalise something correctly,
0:50:56like some brands will use like CamelCase and things like that in their words, I throw those
0:51:01into TextExpander so I just never get them wrong because TextExpander corrects them for
0:51:05me.
0:51:06You can also sync them amongst multiple devices using iCloud Drive or Dropbox and they're
0:51:10available in a bunch of different apps or via the iOS custom keyboard that comes with
0:51:14TextExpander for iOS allowing you to use your snippets absolutely anywhere whether an app
0:51:19supports TextExpander snippets or not. TextExpander 5 costs $44.95 US and upgrades are available
0:51:26for $19.95 for existing users. It's also free to those who purchased on or after January
0:51:321st 2015. You can find out more about TextExpander 5 by visiting smilesoftware.com/upgrade.
0:51:41Thank you so much to Smile and Texas Band of Five
0:51:45for sponsoring this week's episode.
0:51:47Please note that Texas Band of Five requires Yosemite
0:51:49and is ready for El Capitan.
0:51:51So Mr. Jason Snell, today just before the show
0:51:56you published your iPad Pro review.
0:51:59- I did, I did.
0:52:00You published something too.
0:52:02- Yeah, I mean, I think we kind of mentioned it
0:52:04in the pencil part. - We did.
0:52:05- Yeah, I also today did my Apple Pencil review
0:52:08on the pen addict, which is also in the show notes
0:52:10if people wanna read that.
0:52:11I didn't write as many words as you did though, you know?
0:52:14- I have to say I'm disappointed your review
0:52:16was actually typed on, in like in text in a webpage
0:52:19when I really expected that it would just be a series
0:52:22of JPEGs of you writing it by hand.
0:52:25- There is one section in the review
0:52:27which is also handwritten.
0:52:29So you can see the images in there.
0:52:30But yeah, my handwriting isn't good enough
0:52:32that people would be happy to just read it.
0:52:35It would have been very upsetting
0:52:36for everybody involved I think.
0:52:37- Yeah, your handwriting is not, for a pen addict,
0:52:41handwriting is not as good as I would expect. But mine, it's better than mine still. But still.
0:52:48- Hey, I don't think your handwriting has to be great to enjoy pens.
0:52:52- You know, OneNote was able to properly OCR my handwriting, even though my handwriting is terrible.
0:52:58But I found out that what it does is it just makes some really, it indexes, it indexes every
0:53:04possibility for a given word. So you know what you actually wrote. It doesn't know what you actually
0:53:10I wrote but it could have been one of these four things and if you search for any of them
0:53:13It will find it because it doesn't actually know but it's kind of magical to use
0:53:18These one notes automatic search thing where I I wrote a whole page full of notes
0:53:22And then I searched for a word on it and it came up with it. It's pretty cool. Yeah
0:53:25So, okay. So yes iPad Pro review I wrote it
0:53:28Let's get your overall feeling then you spent a bit more time with it than what we spoken about on the show
0:53:34How are you feeling about the iPad Pro?
0:53:37Maybe also in compared to the Mac because I really like the title of your piece isn't no country for old Macs
0:53:43Which is such is very very smart. I like that a lot
0:53:46So explain a little bit to people about what your kind of thought process is here
0:53:50Well, it's a lot of it kind of came out when I wrote that piece
0:53:54last week I wrote a piece about
0:53:57About who the who the iPad Pro is for and
0:54:04And that one was new tricks for old dogs, which I've been writing a lot of wacky headlines.
0:54:10But the idea that the days of us saying the iPad and iOS can't be used for real work are
0:54:17over, it is undoubtedly capable of using it for real work. And if you stop me and say,
0:54:22but in my industry, I need this, like, yes, yes, of course, there are gonna be things
0:54:27in certain industries that just can't be done. But I think for a huge amount of work, it
0:54:32be done, you can use this. The challenge is, do you want to? And that's sort of the conclusion
0:54:37of the piece, is, you know, this is an unapologetic iPad. It is not--I did a whole section that
0:54:45I actually wrote in the intro, planning to write, and then wrote the whole thing and
0:54:47forgot to write, and I had to insert it last yesterday afternoon when I was finishing this,
0:54:53about the Surface, because everybody talks about the Surface, and, "Oh, this is like
0:54:58the Surface because it's got the keyboard and all of that." But I actually think that
0:55:01this is a startling contrast with the Surface because the Surface is the ultimate compromise.
0:55:09Surface is all about what Microsoft is about, which is Windows, and people who use Windows
0:55:14and people who use PCs. And so the Surface is a PC that is also a tablet. It is not the
0:55:19best PC. It is not the best tablet. It is the best thing that's a tablet and a PC, probably.
0:55:27And Apple has been very clear that this is not how they want to make products. They want
0:55:33to make a Mac that's the best Mac and an iPad that's the best iPad and not a toaster fridge,
0:55:38right? Not something that's in between. And Surface is in between. So I think all of that
0:55:42is true and I think it speaks to what those companies are about. Apple has no reason to
0:55:47do that. Mac sales are great, the iPhone is huge. And if you take the big picture, look
0:55:54out five years or ten years, do we really think we're gonna have like combination devices
0:55:59that are both a classic PC and something else? I don't think so. I think this is all about
0:56:03transitions about how there are gonna be people who are comfortable using a computer and there
0:56:08are people who are comfortable using touchscreen mobile devices and you want to provide tools
0:56:13for both of them. So I think the question for me is could the iPad, could Apple make
0:56:20an iPad that's also a Mac and you know it looks like a MacBook and then you pop the
0:56:25screen off and it's an iPad. It absolutely could. It would definitely feel like a toaster
0:56:31fridge. Would I want one? Possibly. But would that be a better product or would that be
0:56:37some kind of a Frankenstein product that is a hugely weird awkward compromise for a time
0:56:47of compromise. Yeah, I mean that's what it would be, because we are in times of compromise,
0:56:51we're in times of transition, it would be a transitional product. But the bottom line
0:56:56is that's not the iPad Pro. The iPad Pro, and this is where the title comes from, there's
0:57:02a line in the piece that is "The iPad Pro does not exist to give comfort to Mac users."
0:57:06not what it's for. And, you know, I, having used the Mac for 26 years now, am a Mac user,
0:57:17and it is not comfortable using iOS for me, although I'm getting better at it. And, you
0:57:23know, I think that that's one of the problems with evaluating the device, is that it's a
0:57:28pretty great device for what it is. I don't think the smart keyboard is a great buy for
0:57:34for most people because I think you'd be better off just giving a Bluetooth keyboard unless
0:57:37you absolutely need to have a keyboard that you can carry around with you at all times
0:57:41on the device as a cover. That is a very specific use case, but beyond that I think it's actually
0:57:48too expensive and not as good as just buying a Bluetooth keyboard and having like a regular
0:57:52cover that you can use as a stand. But in general, I mean, I can't just say thumbs up
0:57:58thumbs down on the iPad Pro because I think that's the bottom line is do you want to work
0:58:02on the iPad Pro? Do you wanna work on iOS? You can. Do you want to? Do you wanna make
0:58:07the switch? If you're somebody who's like a casual user, somebody who doesn't have a
0:58:13million different workflows and scripts and things like that, if you're somebody who does
0:58:18what I said to Gruber was, you know, it's office work, like capital O office work, Microsoft
0:58:23office work, you could do that on the iPad Pro. And it's pretty great actually. So for
0:58:28a lot of people, you could, you know, you get the benefits of portability, of ultra-portability
0:58:34here, even more than a laptop, and of convertibility, in that you can pop the keyboard off and you've
0:58:41got a tablet, but you, you know, that's the trade-off, is you're out of your Mac metaphor
0:58:48and you're on your iOS metaphor, and that's just what it is.
0:58:51>> CHESNEY There's a couple of pieces in here that I wanted to pick out.
0:58:55>> MARTIN Yup.
0:58:56a couple of quotes that I like and then we can discuss them so I'm gonna be quoting you here.
0:59:00So the first one is "You get used to the size fast. After a week using the iPad Pro,
0:59:05I dropped my iPad Air 2 down onto my trusty old origami workstation and just started to laugh.
0:59:10It's like a tiny baby iPad. On a tabletop or other workspace, the size of the iPad Pro's screen
0:59:16really shines." This to me is just like what it was like when I switched to the 6 Plus.
0:59:24Yeah. So you get used to the size and then it's like this is
0:59:31normal. I mean and I have an iPad Air 2 here as well with me sitting on the desk
0:59:36and it's like a mini and Edina uses a mini and I think that thing is
0:59:40hilarious when I see it now. I know right? It's like why do you even
0:59:45exist mini? You're so small. It puts it in perspective.
0:59:52it's yeah it is there's there's got to be some law that has is named after somebody that's the law
0:59:59of the large it's the law of large displays that the larger a display you get the more
1:00:04unacceptable like i used an 11-inch macbook air as my main computer for so long and i've used the
1:00:1027-inch imac for a year and now and people are always asking don't doesn't the 11-inch air feel
1:00:15cramped? No, it's fine, it's great. Now it feels cramped because I'm used to the bigger
1:00:22screen and the iPad is kind of like that. I mean, I really expected that when I dropped
1:00:27the iPad Air down on the origami workstation that I'd be like, "Oh yeah, see, this is fine
1:00:30with the software keyboard slid away. This is totally fine." And it's fine, but I also
1:00:36laughed and went, "Oh, look at you, you little baby iPad," because it is dramatically smaller
1:00:43than the Pro. It is a huge difference.
1:00:48And I mean, I love the size of the iPad Pro and I know that you know, you talk about in
1:00:55the review the places where you use it and kind of saying that in bed for you and that
1:00:59kind of stuff it doesn't work but for me it does. I'm very happy with it. It's obviously
1:01:04not the easiest. I mean if you're going to talk about what's the best iPad to use from
1:01:08a comfortable perspective when you're laying in bed, it's always the mini because the mini
1:01:11you could throw anything around, there's nothing to it. But you know a lot of
1:01:15devices like you have to accept some kinds of trade-offs and for me it's like
1:01:19yeah the iPad Pro maybe isn't as comfortable when I'm sitting in bed but
1:01:23I love it everywhere like it's fantastic for me it just really really works it's
1:01:27like yeah okay maybe it's a little bit less comfortable to hold maybe I have to
1:01:30somehow change the way that I'm sitting or laying when I'm looking at this
1:01:34device but it really works for me and I really love it for that. It's like
1:01:38carrying a clipboard and you gotta be kind of accepting that it's like carrying a clipboard
1:01:43and when I wake up in the morning and I'm checking Twitter while I'm kind of basically
1:01:47laying down it's not the best. It's not the best ergonomics for me. Sitting up, I don't
1:01:53have a problem with it. Standing up or at a desk or something it works great but in
1:01:59that more reclined kind of position it doesn't, you know, it's not my favorite.
1:02:04I mean, I get that. I totally get why you would feel that way about it. I understand
1:02:10why many people would, but it works well enough for me that I'm happy with it. One thing that
1:02:15I'm not happy about, which I'll have a quote from your review, fuzzy graphics and a keyboard
1:02:20that's hard to type on. This is one of the worst parts about the upscale app problem
1:02:25that we have on the Pro.
1:02:26Yeah. Yeah. There's just a lot of apps that haven't been updated for it yet. And I'm a
1:02:31a little surprised, but this happened with—I launched an app on my iPhone the other day
1:02:36that is still upscaled, the iPhone 5, and that's not good. And we still have some, and
1:02:43it is frustrating, and those all need to get updated, because that is one of the problems
1:02:48that we have with the—you get the weird software keyboard that's the upscaled software
1:02:54keyboard, so now you've got two different software keyboards depending on the context,
1:02:57is something that iPhone users know from the transition to the 6 and the 6 Plus, where
1:03:01you would get—some apps would open, and you're like, "Why is this keyboard different?"
1:03:05And the answer is, "Because it's an upscaled iPhone 5 keyboard." And now that is happening
1:03:09on the Pro, there are upscaled apps from the iPad that—and it's no good. And everything's
1:03:15a little bit fuzzy. And there are a lot of apps that are like that, and it's just—it'll
1:03:21get better over time, but right now it is a problem.
1:03:24- I also like this part where you're comparing the iPads.
1:03:27What's more, the iPad Pro doesn't need to be
1:03:29for a broad category of users.
1:03:31It's not the iPad just one of three different models,
1:03:34each with different characteristics.
1:03:36For most people, the iPad Air 2 is probably the best choice,
1:03:39but that's not a knock on the iPad Pro.
1:03:41It costs more and gives you more,
1:03:42and if you want more, it's the one for you.
1:03:44- Yeah, this is, maybe this is my pet theory,
1:03:48but I feel like the burden is off of a lot of Apple products
1:03:52once they're part of a family,
1:03:53And I really felt this when the iPad mini
1:03:57didn't have to be the iPad.
1:03:59It was the iPad mini.
1:04:01It was like another iPad.
1:04:03And the iPhone 6 Plus doesn't need to be the iPhone.
1:04:07It needs to be an option for iPhone buyers
1:04:10because there's also the iPhone 6
1:04:11and the older models that are also out there.
1:04:13And if they added a smaller iPhone,
1:04:16an updated version of the smaller size,
1:04:17it would be the same deal.
1:04:18It would be an iPhone that you can get.
1:04:20And I think that it used to be the iPhone
1:04:23and the iPad, and there's a whole lot more burden, I think, on that product, because
1:04:26it needs to serve everybody that Apple's trying to reach in that market. And the iPad Pro
1:04:30doesn't need to do that. The iPad Pro is unabashedly a big iPad, and if you don't want it, it's
1:04:35not like there isn't another iPad for you to buy. And I think that's a good place for
1:04:40Apple to be, and I think it's a good place for a product to be. That's one of the things
1:04:43I loved about the first iPad mini, is that it was allowed to be itself, and it didn't
1:04:50have to feel the burden and be compromised in a lot of ways so that
1:04:53everybody would want it because it wasn't made for everybody.
1:04:57And then this was your kind of conclusion and you mentioned this a little bit but I want to read this
1:05:02part and then talk another part about this Frankenstein product and that's why
1:05:07I can't help but ask myself if Apple made a retina MacBook whose screen
1:05:12popped off and became an iPad would I buy it? It seems like such a Frankenstein
1:05:15product so inelegant a concept and so clearly not the way the world is going
1:05:19And yet I would be tempted, not because it's a bold direction forward, but because it's
1:05:23a compromise that grants me some comfort in a time of change.
1:05:27The iPad Pro does not exist to give comfort to Mac users."
1:05:31This combined with that piece that you mentioned that you wrote last week, I get a feeling
1:05:37of nervousness from you that the computing landscape is changing underneath you and there's
1:05:43kind of nothing you can do about it whether you like it or not.
1:05:47I wouldn't say it that way.
1:05:49It is interesting because Gruber's review ends with a similar statement of like, it's
1:05:53not for me, but I am open to the possibility that I'm a dinosaur, right? Which is something
1:05:59I say in the new tricks for old dogs, right?
1:06:01- Steven also wrote a thing on 512, effectively the same kind of idea, where you all sound
1:06:07really scared.
1:06:10- That's not it. I think it's being, I think you need to be able to identify in yourself
1:06:17your own biases and lay them out there and be able to think beyond them. And I suspect,
1:06:23and I think that Steven and John writing similar things also suspect this, I suspect that a
1:06:32lot of the people whose reaction to something like the iPad Pro is, "It's stupid, it's not
1:06:37a computer, you can't use it to get real work done, why are they bothering? It's a waste
1:06:41of time, I suspect that those are people who just don't want to accept that for some people,
1:06:52the touchscreen computing metaphor is what computers are going to be.
1:06:57And that they may have, they may, the thing that they think of as how you interact with
1:07:03computers is now very clearly part of an era and eras have ends and they aren't finite
1:07:11like they aren't sharp ends, they're trail off ends,
1:07:15but it happens just like it happened with going
1:07:18from command lines to GUIs, it happens.
1:07:21And so I think step one is acknowledging that it's true,
1:07:26right, acknowledging that this is a thing that's happening.
1:07:29And I have no fear about it.
1:07:32This is about acknowledging the reality of it.
1:07:36So step one is saying you can work on iOS.
1:07:40and that the reasons that you won't work on iOS
1:07:43are more to do with you and your preferences.
1:07:46And again, that's not judgmental,
1:07:48more to do with how you want to work
1:07:50than it is about the device.
1:07:53And I think that's important,
1:07:54especially if you're somebody who writes about technology,
1:07:57I think you need to be able to say that
1:07:59and understand that.
1:08:01Now, step two is also being flexible enough
1:08:03to try and change and see what it's like.
1:08:07And it may not all work for you,
1:08:08but being able to make those judgments
1:08:11and see what it's like gives you the flexibility
1:08:14to communicate that to other people.
1:08:16So that, I think that's the next step, but part,
1:08:18but to get there,
1:08:19I have to make the acknowledgement within myself
1:08:21that I have a bias here,
1:08:23which is that I've been using computers like the Mac.
1:08:26I've been using the Mac for 26 years.
1:08:28And of course, it's gonna be hard to switch
1:08:31to something like iOS for productivity stuff
1:08:34that I think of as computery stuff.
1:08:36So step one is to say it is,
1:08:38and then you can decide whether you wanna make that effort
1:08:40or not.
1:08:41I don't wanna make that effort to permanently switch
1:08:44because I don't see the need to do that
1:08:47as anything other than a stunt,
1:08:48but to be able to mode switch,
1:08:50to be able to not have to carry around a MacBook Air
1:08:53when I wanna do work elsewhere,
1:08:55but just carry around an iPad, that I see benefits in.
1:08:59So, and I feel like the platform is robust enough
1:09:01that you can do it, even if I don't have the iPad Pro,
1:09:04even I have the Air 2 and an external keyboard.
1:09:06But yeah, I think it's fair,
1:09:10and I mentioned this earlier
1:09:12when I picked up my review unit at Apple
1:09:13and got my briefing,
1:09:15one of the things that they said in the briefing,
1:09:16and it's all kind of backgroundy,
1:09:18so I'm not gonna quote them directly,
1:09:19but I got this vibe from them about the keyboard,
1:09:23the smart keyboard,
1:09:24that it was almost a legacy product.
1:09:27And that was a moment where I thought,
1:09:28oh, huh, interesting.
1:09:31Like, is a hardware keyboard a legacy technology?
1:09:36(laughing)
1:09:37That's crazy to me.
1:09:39And yet I think it's worth thinking about that.
1:09:42And considering is a hardware keyboard
1:09:45and is a mouse cursor tracking across a screen
1:09:50an old metaphor that is being supplanted.
1:09:53And if it is, what's new and how does the new stuff work?
1:09:57Because the work, you know,
1:09:58people are still gonna need to get their jobs done.
1:10:00It's just, you know, the tools that are,
1:10:03the tools of choice for some people have changed.
1:10:05I don't know, but that's where it comes for me. There's no fear or concern, and change
1:10:14doesn't particularly bother me. I think you need to call it what it is and not pretend
1:10:21that it's not an aspect of anything that somebody who's been writing about computers for a long
1:10:26time, you know, it's part of their frame of reference. And the iPad Pro doesn't care,
1:10:32right? That's the last line there. The iPad Pro doesn't care. It is not like the surface.
1:10:37The surface is meant to make PC users feel better about having a tablet. The iPad Pro
1:10:41doesn't care.
1:10:42Yeah, so screw you buddy, this is my time.
1:10:44Yeah.
1:10:45Like I look at all of this and I feel like it's safe to say now that the personal computer's
1:10:50time has peaked and it's changing.
1:10:54Well look at the, I mean, take the tablet out of the equation for a minute and look
1:11:00at smartphone numbers and computer numbers, PC numbers. It already peaked. It's been off
1:11:09the peak for a while now. The PC market shrinks and the smartphone market is insanely growing.
1:11:15So you know, and we can, the tablet is a tweener and it's interesting, but it's already happened.
1:11:23People interact with the internet and use technology to do what we consider computer
1:11:26things with smartphones and other devices too, but with smartphones. That is the computer
1:11:33now. And presumably all future or many future computing device innovations are going to
1:11:41be keying off the smartphone because it's the metaphor now in a way that Windows, you
1:11:49know, that the Mac led to Windows 95 and the suddenly that GUI Mac style GUI was everywhere.
1:11:55that was the metaphor. The smartphone is the metaphor now and the iPad is a
1:11:59computer that uses the smartphone metaphor basically. Man, I am very excited
1:12:08about this product. I wished I could take all of my work to it, right? I can't. I can.
1:12:12I can do the podcast stuff on it if I want to jump through a lot of hoops but
1:12:16I'm not ready to do that yet but I see the future of it and I know how happy I
1:12:21I am using this device for the majority of things.
1:12:24Like today, I've been working all day today.
1:12:27I sat down at my iMac just as we were about
1:12:29to start recording the show, but I've been working all day
1:12:31and I've been working on my iPad Pro.
1:12:33- Well, like I said, I think people get obsessed
1:12:35about this idea of switching, like Federico,
1:12:37'cause Federico is the switcher, right?
1:12:39He has switched.
1:12:40But I think that, you know,
1:12:42I think that there's context switching.
1:12:43I think the idea that you might have a computer
1:12:46that you use, like I stopped,
1:12:48when I set up this office, I stop working on my Mac laptop in the house. I very rarely
1:12:55bring my laptop, my MacBook Air, into the house. It basically sits behind me, and I
1:13:00bring it when I go out somewhere where I need to use the computer or I travel. It gets very
1:13:05little use now. And that's in contrast to even when I worked at IDG, and I would bring
1:13:11the laptop home and I would have it and I would do my computery things. Now that I've
1:13:15I've got the desktop, I've got like, if I wanna do work in the Mac framework, I do it
1:13:19here at my desk in the office. In the house, it's the iPad or iPhone, but usually the iPad.
1:13:26And so that's what I start to think about is maybe the iPad is now my thing that I do
1:13:33everything I'm gonna do productively that is out of the desk where I'm sitting right
1:13:38now. And if I go to my mom's house in Phoenix to visit her for a few days, I don't bring
1:13:43a computer, a Mac, I don't bring a MacBook Air, I bring my iPad because I'm out of the
1:13:48house and that's the hump that I'm getting over is not can I switch entirely to the iPad,
1:13:56it's just can I use it when I'm away from my Mac and that's a lower bar.
1:14:01Should we take a break, do some Ask Upgrade? Yeah, let's do it.
1:14:07This week's episode is also brought to you by Hover, the best way to buy and manage domain
1:14:12I love hover whenever I need something on the web, which is a lot of stuff really, you know
1:14:16Lots of things need websites these days. You need a domain name
1:14:19It's one of the most important things if you're coming up with a name for a new project or you have a name in mind
1:14:24In today's world you need to make sure that that domain is available
1:14:28It's like that's the way people are gonna find you they can open their web browser
1:14:31They're gonna they're gonna type the name of your company in this is what hover will help you secure
1:14:35You can go to hover.com. You can have a little search you can search keywords
1:14:38you can search for full domains and they'll show you what's available and
1:14:41they have all of the TLDs you'd expect and these are like you know your
1:14:44.coms.co.net, .co.uk. They have all the new ones as well
1:14:48.limo, .diamond etc etc and they have great options on all of them for example
1:14:53their .com domain start at $12.99. If it's available it's very simple just a
1:14:57few clicks you'll own that domain name. Hover can also help do an auctioning
1:15:02process so they can if somebody owns the domain Hover can help you acquire it if
1:15:06it's for sale and also if it's just completely taken they won't be able to
1:15:10make suggestions for you they can show you what they have and they can give you
1:15:13they give some tweaks on the new wording for you and maybe help spark another
1:15:17idea for you to get that domain that you want. Once you actually go through and
1:15:21purchase domains which is super easy it's just a few clicks they give whois
1:15:24privacy for free with all the domains that support it so it keeps your
1:15:26personal information private which is exactly what you would want. You have
1:15:31fantastic customer support all times they have great guides on their website
1:15:34They have fantastic email support and they have incredible no hold, no wait, no transfer,
1:15:38telephone support as well.
1:15:40Hover have a valet service where they'll switch all of your domains from your previous provider
1:15:45to Hover for you completely for free no matter how many domains you have.
1:15:49They have Hover Connect which is one of my favorite new things at Hover where they'll
1:15:52make it super easy to get your new domain that you just purchased really easily.
1:15:56Of course, connected with the website or service that you want to connect it to.
1:15:59So let's say for example you want to set it up with your Shopify account or your Squarespace
1:16:02page or your tumblr page, you just go into your domain admin panel at hover, you just
1:16:07select which service they use and they will amend automatically all of the DNS records
1:16:11for you, you don't need to be copying and pasting crazy stuff to get it all set up.
1:16:15Hover have thought of everything, they make it all super simple and they back it up with
1:16:18their excellent support.
1:16:19So go to hover.com and try them out, they should be the place that you're buying your
1:16:23domain names from.
1:16:24You'll want to use the code magic at checkout and you'll get 10% off your first purchase
1:16:28over at hover.com and show your support for this show and all of Relay FM. That's the
1:16:33promo code "magic" and you'll get 10% off your first purchase. Thank you so much to
1:16:37hover.com for their support of this show. So should we do some Ask Upgrade?
1:16:43Let's do it.
1:16:44We didn't do any last week so I'm sure that people have been clamoring for the only sound
1:16:50that could indicate that Ask Upgrade is occurring, Jason.
1:16:54Well, it would be a sound of lasers, although we got somebody to complain that we should
1:16:58use the sound of real lasers, to which I would say I think actual laser sound effects would
1:17:03be more annoying to more people than us simply saying, "Ask, upgrade!"
1:17:08It's the only way to do it.
1:17:10I would like to know, and this is an iPad Pro related question, "I travel a lot for
1:17:14business and I'm thinking about getting an iPad Pro to replace my laptop.
1:17:17It would be thrown in a bag and into luggage bins, etc. during my travel.
1:17:21Do I have to worry about the ruggedness of the iPad Pro?"
1:17:24So for me, I think one of the key things you have to remember is that this device is basically
1:17:29just a screen.
1:17:31Like a laptop kind of protects itself by closing, so like all of the stuff that could easily
1:17:36get broken is contained within itself, right?
1:17:38The keyboard and the screen.
1:17:40So I think you've got to get a good case, a nice rugged case, and you'll be fine.
1:17:44I have a smart cover on mine.
1:17:45You can pay an incredible amount of money to get the smart case, which goes in the back
1:17:49as well.
1:17:50I don't know just how good at protecting things they are,
1:17:53but I've always had smart covers on my iPads
1:17:56and they've always been fine.
1:17:57But of course, this thing is bigger.
1:17:58It's probably easier to break because of its size.
1:18:01But I, you know, it's pretty tough.
1:18:05- It's pretty rigid in a way that laptop screens aren't
1:18:08because laptop screens, yeah, when you close them,
1:18:10they're also sort of protected by the rigidity
1:18:13of the base of the laptop.
1:18:14And here, the whole, it's an iPad, it feels like an iPad.
1:18:18It's got that aluminum back.
1:18:19it's pretty strong, but you wanna cover the screen
1:18:22so that the screen is protected.
1:18:24And yeah, I've just used a smart cover on all of my iPads.
1:18:27But if you really are gonna be hard on it,
1:18:30then I would say try to get another,
1:18:31something more rugged, something, you know,
1:18:35but that's fine.
1:18:36I think it'll be fine as long as it's in a nice case.
1:18:38The question is what kind of cases
1:18:39are out there right now for the iPad Pro?
1:18:41- I don't think there are many.
1:18:42- You may have to wait a little bit,
1:18:44but I think it'll be fine as long as you get a case for it.
1:18:47- Yep, I completely agree.
1:18:49Mickey would like to know, "Should I choose Apple's keyboard cover or the Logitech Create?"
1:18:53If you actually had any time with Logitech Create.
1:18:55None.
1:18:56None.
1:18:57Haven't even seen it.
1:18:58Haven't touched it.
1:18:59So basically, I've spoke to a few different people about this and everyone seems to say
1:19:02the same thing.
1:19:03If you want a good cover that's a keyboard, go for the smart keyboard.
1:19:07If you want a good keyboard that you can put on your iPad, go for the Logitech Create.
1:19:11Yeah, but Logitech Create, I mean, it's sort of, you snap your iPad into it.
1:19:14So you're basically turning your iPad into a laptop by snapping it in.
1:19:17And so, and I mentioned this in my review,
1:19:20I think unless you're somebody who really needs
1:19:23that combination of, I've always got my keyboard with me
1:19:27and it's ready to go at a moment's notice.
1:19:29If you can slip a Bluetooth keyboard in a bag somewhere
1:19:34and bring it out when you need it
1:19:36and not have to walk around,
1:19:38I mean, that's what the smart keyboard
1:19:40and I think the Logitech Create keyboards are good for
1:19:42is like, you're sort of treating it like a laptop.
1:19:44You always wanna have your keyboard with you.
1:19:46but I don't generally use my iPad that way.
1:19:49And so you can save a lot of money
1:19:51and get a better keyboard by buying a Bluetooth keyboard
1:19:55and pairing it.
1:19:56And yeah, you have to charge it or change the batteries,
1:19:58but pairing it with your iPad
1:20:00and then getting something like a smart cover
1:20:03that you can use as a stand.
1:20:05I think in a lot of contexts,
1:20:07that is a perfectly reasonable way to use even the iPad Pro.
1:20:10And it should be part of the conversation.
1:20:12You should think about whether you really need
1:20:15one of these two accessories, just because they're made for the iPad Pro, that's not
1:20:18enough of a reason. You need to, you know, will I use them in a way that makes it necessary
1:20:24that I use them.
1:20:27Luca would like to know how we use Slack at Relay FM and why do we prefer it to iMessage
1:20:32or other messaging platforms. So the reason that I love Slack over anything else is in
1:20:38this one application, I have all types of communication with people. So we have instant
1:20:44So like one-on-one conversations like me and Jason may have it
1:20:47We're just chatting about stuff or maybe we're setting up stuff for a show. We can have instant messages like that
1:20:51We have group chats. So like for connected we have a connected like a private connected group
1:20:56It's me Federico and Steven we talk as a three
1:20:59We talk about things as a three as friends and also talk about things as you know for the show for business
1:21:05Then we have like official business communication channels
1:21:08Which have like everybody in them and we want to say as a business we are doing this
1:21:12we want you to know about this, you should look at this, right? We have
1:21:15official business communication we can do there. We have massive group chats,
1:21:19like we have the general room that all slacks have, ours has like 30
1:21:23people in it, and people just talking about whatever, they could be talking
1:21:27about tech, they could be talking about video games, they could be talking about pens and pencils,
1:21:30no matter whoever may like that or may not, it's all going in there and there's
1:21:34nothing anybody can do about it. Sorry Casey. Sorry Casey, it's just the way it is.
1:21:39and sorry Jason because we have in pension today you did that but that's it
1:21:43right it's just a big chat room that everyone's in so it's basically it's we
1:21:47have all of these different types of communication all in one place it's all
1:21:51searchable it's all archived so in case we need it for later it stops people
1:21:56from having conversations in email and then they get lost and then you continue
1:22:00in IM like it's just a way of keeping all of our communication in one place
1:22:04with and everybody just goes to that place when they want to talk to somebody
1:22:07in our company. It's very, very cool for that. I love it.
1:22:11I mean, the small group conversations could be done in something like
1:22:15iMessage. That would be fine, but the nice thing about about Slack is that
1:22:21you've got the general group too, so you've got a whole bunch of people who
1:22:24are able to have conversations, and then you can set up interest channels and you
1:22:27can set up private groups of different sizes, and it's all in one place. So
1:22:33So I think that's the advantage there. Also, cross-platform, I mean, our friends, the hosts
1:22:39of the material podcast on Relay cannot read those iMessages on their phones, right?
1:22:45>> I'm not sure they can get email on their Android phones either, right?
1:22:49>> Yeah, can they?
1:22:50>> It's only the Gmail, they don't get email.
1:22:52>> Oh, interesting.
1:22:53>> It's a different letter, I think.
1:22:54>> Yeah, I'm sure that's accurate.
1:22:56>> Mm-hmm, email, Jason.
1:22:59Lex Friedman posted a thing the other day about how many different ways people can get
1:23:04in touch with him. And I replied to him. I sent him a Slack message on the incomparable
1:23:09Slack. I sent him an iMessage. I sent him an AOL Instant Messenger IM. I sent him a
1:23:13Google Talk message and I sent him a Facebook message, all saying the same thing as a reply.
1:23:22Because it's true, it could be everywhere. But that's the nice thing about Slack is that
1:23:26you set these groups up for people who are working together on project or other, and
1:23:29it forms like a little mini community, and then you've also got your private messaging
1:23:32that's kind of built in. And if it was just private messaging or just the group chat room,
1:23:36I think it would be less effective. But once, you know, everybody knows to sort of like
1:23:39keep an eye on Slack, then it becomes easier to get their direct attention in Slack by
1:23:45a direct message in a way. Like I don't have the iMessage addresses of a lot of the people
1:23:51that I work with, but I don't need it because I can just see their name in Slack and send
1:23:56them a message or a couple names. And that's been very effective, actually. So I use iMessage
1:24:02a lot less now.
1:24:04>> Joshua would like to know, "What do you think of using SoundCloud for podcast hosting?
1:24:08I'm using Squarespace right now. What better stats?" Now, I would say I have never used
1:24:13SoundCloud and I know that Jason has, so I'll get his input on the actual service itself.
1:24:18I would say if you have a podcast you should be using some sort of service that has statistics.
1:24:23Squarespace is great for creating websites around podcasts and you can host your stuff
1:24:27there and it's fine, but you don't actually get any statistics for the uploads of the
1:24:31files and the downloads of the files, you don't get any of that.
1:24:34So I always say you should use a third party in that scenario.
1:24:38I use Libsyn, we use Libsyn at Relay FM, they've been around forever and their statistics are
1:24:44well trusted.
1:24:45loads of other great services. There's one that I really like as well called
1:24:48Simplecast, which also creates really good-looking websites as well for you, so
1:24:53you can check those guys out. But there is of course SoundCloud, which I know
1:24:56that you've used, Jason. Yeah, SoundCloud, you know, they've been,
1:25:01they've added podcast functionality, but their goal is to sort of be the YouTube
1:25:06of audio, so that they try to drive people to the website. So you can post
1:25:09sounds on a SoundCloud account that's got the premium version that has
1:25:14podcasting built in and it'll generate a feed. I don't like SoundCloud because
1:25:20their attitude, they are very reluctant to share the mp3 file with you. There
1:25:26are ways to get it but like the default is they want you to, if you're seeing a
1:25:33podcast on the web, they want you to use their player to play it. They don't want
1:25:37to provide you with like a download URL which makes it really frustrating if you
1:25:40want to use something like Huffduffer or you just want to download the file for
1:25:43later or most importantly, sometimes there's a download button. So that's okay. But mostly
1:25:48like the download button generates a download URL that doesn't seem to be the permanent
1:25:53download URL. So if you want to link to an MP3 on SoundCloud, they don't want to let
1:25:56you do it. If you want to put it in a different RSS feed, they don't want to let you do it.
1:26:00It's kind of like they want to be a podcast citizen, but they also want the control and
1:26:06I don't love it. And so if you like SoundCloud and it works for you, it's super easy. We
1:26:10to use it for some stuff for Macworld and for the incomparable, but at this point I'm
1:26:14using Libsyn, and it's pretty cheap for the basic plan, and I think that's the--and it's
1:26:21got stats. So I think for most people that's what I recommend at this point is Libsyn,
1:26:27because you can start off with a very cheap plan, and you do have to pay, but it's probably
1:26:33not a lot of money, you know, whatever it is, five bucks, eight bucks a month or something
1:26:37like that.
1:26:38I recommend the $20 a month plan. I know that obviously you're getting into an amount of
1:26:42money there, but the $20 a month plan gives you advanced statistics, which it doesn't
1:26:48let you know a lot of stuff, but you can get geographical breakdown, technology breakdown
1:26:52so you can see what apps people are listening in and stuff like that. I like it for that.
1:26:56You can definitely go with a cheaper plan than that.
1:26:58You can start with $5, and the way it works is it's about how your upload is. So if you've
1:27:03got a short podcast or you only have a couple podcasts a month, the $5 plan, it's $50 a
1:27:08megs in podcast files and for $15 a month it's 250 megs which is perfect for
1:27:13like a weekly podcast.
1:27:14Definitely.
1:27:16Right so that's Ask Upgrade this week. So this is usually where the episode will end.
1:27:20However we have of course a Myke at the Movies week so we have a special segment
1:27:24and we're about to start talking about the "Sure Thing" which is our Myke at the
1:27:29Movies pick for this week. But Myke at the Movies this time is brought to you
1:27:33by our friends over at Igloo who give you the internet you'll actually like.
1:27:36Now we're about to start talking about like an 80s movie and some internets look like
1:27:41that they were made in the 80s right they were made in the 90s they were made in a time
1:27:45where the internet was a very very different functioning and looking thing and I remember
1:27:51the internet that I used to use in my old corporate job was very much like this.
1:27:56It felt very much at home and Internet Explorer right maybe tells you all you need to know
1:28:00that was where it did its best.
1:28:03But this isn't what igloo makes. Igloo make a great product which feels like it was made
1:28:07in the internet world of 2015. It is full of responsive design and beautiful little
1:28:13touches throughout. Like for example they have status update stuff. So like a little
1:28:17microblog or a little mini twitter all inside of your own igloo so you can keep everybody
1:28:21up to date with what you're working on. You can chat, they have commenting on all of their
1:28:25stuff, you can upload images and you can like stuff. Like it's all very internet of now,
1:28:30right? It feels like the way it should. And you're able to access your igloo from any
1:28:35device no matter where you are as long as you have a connection to the internet. It's
1:28:39going to look and feel exactly as you want because you can customize it, you can set
1:28:42up all of the branding and the coloring to feel just right. You can set up different
1:28:46functionality for different groups and teams. They also have their own document previewing
1:28:50engine as well so you can collaborate on stuff together. You can also see who has read certain
1:28:55documents as well. So you'll be able to make sure that everybody is on the same page. They
1:29:00They have fantastic security stuff, 256 bit encryption, single sign on, active directory
1:29:04integrations and so much more.
1:29:06They integrate with services like Box, Google Drive and Dropbox.
1:29:09It is exactly as you would want from a product like this.
1:29:13It's time to break away from the internet you hate, the internet that drives you crazy
1:29:16every day.
1:29:17You want to go and sign up for igloo right now and you can try it out for free for any
1:29:21team of up to 10 people for as long as you want so you can get a real good sense as if
1:29:25this is the right fit for your team.
1:29:27Go and find out more and sign up today.
1:29:29goo-software.com/upgrade.
1:29:32Thank you so much to Igloo for supporting this show
1:29:34and Real AFM.
1:29:35So, Jason, "The Sure Thing" is our pick today.
1:29:41- It is.
1:29:42- My first comment about "The Sure Thing"
1:29:45is that it is impossible to find.
1:29:47It is not available for streaming or purchasing online.
1:29:51- Wow.
1:29:52- So I went into a bit of a panic mode over the weekend
1:29:56as I could not find this movie.
1:29:58I have a theory, also speaking of Slack,
1:30:03our friend Casey had a file in the Slack of this movie.
1:30:07- Did he? I wouldn't know.
1:30:09- Yeah, it's available digitally
1:30:11in the secret Slack channel about this movie.
1:30:14Yeah, I have a theory about it,
1:30:18which is that the music in it has made it difficult to,
1:30:26So it's available, like the DVD is a Shout Factory DVD
1:30:30and a lot of the Shout Factory stuff,
1:30:32it's higher priced than it's like, it lists at $25.
1:30:35It's higher priced.
1:30:36And they do that because they're,
1:30:38the main company doesn't wanna release it
1:30:42because it's gonna be too much to get the music rights.
1:30:45And then Shout Factory basically says,
1:30:46"Okay, we will clear all the music rights
1:30:47and release it at a higher price and a lower volume
1:30:51for the people who really wanna see it."
1:30:52Because the soundtrack to The Sure Thing is staggering.
1:30:55In fact, I think it seems much more impressive now
1:30:59as a representative of the '80s than it did at the time.
1:31:04It feels like songs selected for a movie we'd make today
1:31:10set in the '80s.
1:31:11Like, well, we gotta have a song by these people
1:31:14and that song is very '80s and all of that,
1:31:16but it's just the songs they pick for this movie.
1:31:18By the way, the musical supervisor I looked up
1:31:20while I was watching it for this movie
1:31:22is also the musical supervisor for "Real Genius."
1:31:24So it's the same person picking the songs for both, which also made me laugh.
1:31:28But it's a very 80s soundtrack and my guess is that the music rights are probably very
1:31:34expensive and that may be why it's not available streaming.
1:31:38That is a good theory.
1:31:39I like that theory.
1:31:40There is a lot of music throughout this.
1:31:43When the movie opens, it opens very 80s.
1:31:46It has a very 80s song and has this beautiful 80s font, right?
1:31:52all like fluorescent, streaking across the screen, right? You would know this if you could find the movie, right?
1:31:59Did you end up seeing the movie, Myke? Yes, luckily I did. It stumbled upon me somehow. Somehow. I just
1:32:07want to mention about the music. Rod Stewart, Kiwi Lewis and the News, Sammy Hagar, Quiet Riot, John
1:32:13John Waite, Jay Giles' band, the Eagles, or sorry, Eagles, The Cars, Wang Chung, Lionel
1:32:21Ritchie and Peter Wolf. So it is a, and it's Lights Out by Peter Wolf. So it is a super
1:32:28uber 80s kind of soundtrack. But I could also see why that might be very expensive if they
1:32:33didn't have all the, if they had to re-license all that music for streaming at home video.
1:32:38So the only thing that I knew about this movie or believe that I knew about this movie is
1:32:42you referred to it last week as a sex comedy. So my question before going into this was,
1:32:47is this real genius or is this American Pie? I will find out.
1:32:51- Yeah, and I think the reality is it is like some of the other movies that we've watched,
1:32:59including Say Anything, it is a movie that wants you to think that it's a
1:33:06horny teen sex comedy sort of movie when it's not.
1:33:10Yes, that I will get to this a little bit later on this put a pin in that for now
1:33:14But this one tries harder than say anything does right say anything doesn't really they have the one party scene
1:33:20But say anything really doesn't get too far down the road or sure thing spends a good 25 minutes
1:33:26Really wanting you to think that this is all about a couple of guys who want to get laid
1:33:31Yeah, and the time you realize so the sure thing is
1:33:35The show character the person that the girl who is a sure thing like that
1:33:40We're gonna get our main character junkie sack who plays a character called Gib
1:33:44Walter Gibson is gonna go to his friends college in California because there is this girl there who is a sure thing for him
1:33:51Like his friend Anthony Edwards from ER and Top Gun
1:33:55very young as his friend the dude in going to college in California and
1:34:00And Nicolette Sheridan, who went on to be on like "Knots Landing" and she did a whole bunch of other things.
1:34:05And her role is credited in the credits as the sure thing. That is who she is. She never has a name.
1:34:13She's blonde and beautiful and sits out on the beach and appears in the various fantasy sequences of John Cusack's gib.
1:34:22But before we even finish the credits, there was something that I noticed that really made me smile.
1:34:26executive producer Henry Winkler. Yes. Where did they come from? So it's a funny thing about what
1:34:35Henry Winkler did sort of post Fonz which was get into producing and he produced a bunch of movies
1:34:45that would surprise you and TV series. I believe he was one of the producers on MacGyver, the TV
1:34:50series as well. But he did this film and there was another big movie that he's listed as
1:35:00a producer on. God, what is it? Anyway, yeah, he had a whole--he also directed. He directed
1:35:10some movies and he produced some movies. It was very much his, "Okay, I've been a sitcom
1:35:14star on Happy Days and now I want to do some other things." And so he produced and directed
1:35:19a bunch of stuff so he is listed as one of the executive producers on the sure thing
1:35:23I have no idea.
1:35:24I'm looking at his IMDB page right now there's a ton of stuff like I was thinking oh I'll
1:35:31just go and find out what that thing was I will be here all day.
1:35:34Yeah oh yeah it's crazy the stuff that he's produced so I think that's part of the story
1:35:43is that he did a whole bunch of sort of post fawns things but yeah he's listed as an executive
1:35:48producer on Sure Thing. So I like that it kind of it starts off with Gibb. We
1:35:57should say we should say this is directed by Rob Reiner who we've already seen
1:36:00this is Spinal Tap and and the Princess Bride from and then stars John Cusack who
1:36:05we've already seen with Say Anything. So it starts off Cusack is giving his
1:36:10chat up line to a girl and it's about space and I wonder if this was
1:36:14potential for why you love this movie is that he uses space as a pickup line. He's so
1:36:18bad at it. Yeah, it doesn't work. Consider the universe. He says with his high voice, he's 19
1:36:23in this movie. Very young in this movie. He's four years younger than, this is four years before Say
1:36:27Anything, and his voice hasn't dropped basically yet. And I like that the movie's set up really
1:36:35well. Like, it begins at the ending for these two friends. They've just graduated high school and
1:36:41they're about to go off to college. Like, that's, I really like that as the way that the movie begins
1:36:45because it just puts a pin in where these people are in their lives. They don't do it
1:36:49in a ham-fisted way, they don't do it with a lot of exposition. It's just a couple of
1:36:52minutes and then they move on to the rest of the movie. And I think it sets it up really
1:36:56nicely.
1:36:57Did you notice something we talked about when we talked about Say Anything was that that's
1:37:01a movie entirely set in a period which we rarely see in a film, which is the summer
1:37:05after high school and before college. And I laughed when this movie starts in the same
1:37:10place, which is graduation night, and scene two skips all the way to college. And I thought,
1:37:15"Wow, say anything just happened in between those two scenes," because this movie's got
1:37:19to--it's time to move on. The point is shorthand. They're in high school. It's all the expectations
1:37:23of going off to college. There's that funny line where Anthony Edwards is trying to give
1:37:29him a pep talk about how he's going to be more lucky with the ladies in college. He
1:37:34said, "Forget about these high school girls. Pretty soon they'll all be college girls."
1:37:37And he says, "But it's the same girls. They just go to college." And he says, "No, no,
1:37:40no. They'll be college girls then. This dream that is nonsensical about it."
1:37:45It's just so it's so naive and and funny and dumb and and then we cut to he's at an unspecified Northeastern University
1:37:52So he's taken English and I really love his lecturer. Oh
1:37:57Yeah, she is such a fantastic character. She's so full of life and fun
1:38:02And I loved it like, you know
1:38:05She's she wants them to express themselves more in their writing and she says stuff like sleep when you want to not when you think
1:38:11you must make love in a hammock like it's like she's just saying all this
1:38:15stuff like just prancing around the room. She's Swedish so she's got this accent so
1:38:19you're like she's this vaguely European dynamic yeah mm-hmm and I really like
1:38:25that I really like that a lot I also love the swim in pool monologue right so
1:38:30as so at this point Gib has set his sights on Amanda that is who he is
1:38:37really interested in and he's trying to get her to go on a date with him and she
1:38:43is going for a swim in a pool and she's doing lengths and he's just walking up
1:38:47and down the pool in increasing desperation of what like absolute
1:38:52melodrama of why she should give him a shot and how it's like completely end
1:38:56his life and then he jumps into the pool it's like would you save a drowning man
1:38:59like it's all I really like that bit. It's Alison by the way. Alison sorry. You got
1:39:04bad handwriting there, but we knew that.
1:39:06I was trying to do it from memory. He didn't do a very good job.
1:39:10Yeah, so yeah, he follows her. It's sweet. He fancies himself, I think, as a lot of—is
1:39:20this in reality or not? But it's certainly in movies that a lot of teenage young men
1:39:24fancy themselves powerful pickup artist type people where they're like, "Oh, I can get
1:39:31the ladies to go out with me. I've got a line." You know, he's working on his lines and stuff
1:39:34like that. You got to get some new material. And then with her, he has this whole scheme,
1:39:39which is that he's going to get her to help him with his studying, his paper, because
1:39:48he's got to rewrite this paper that he wrote about burning, about not burning the roof
1:39:52of your mouth when you eat pizza. That is what his paper is about, by the way. And the
1:39:57The moment, so she finally agrees.
1:40:00And the moment that they sit down to work
1:40:02on the paper seemingly, he's like,
1:40:03let's get some air, let's get out of here.
1:40:05It is the thinnest tissue paper sham.
1:40:10It is just so, it made me laugh.
1:40:12'Cause it's like, he doesn't even go through the motions
1:40:14of like, we don't see that they've been working on it
1:40:16now that they're leaving after the study session,
1:40:18he's gonna ask her out.
1:40:19He like, he can't wait.
1:40:21He immediately is like, no, no, let's blow this off.
1:40:23And actually go out on a date, which I didn't ask you on,
1:40:25but now I'm gonna ask you one.
1:40:28- I like that when she finally agrees
1:40:29to go on a date with him,
1:40:31they agree on a time and stuff
1:40:34and Alison goes to walk out of the door
1:40:36and Gib says, "Where?
1:40:38Like, where shall I meet you?"
1:40:39Like, this is one of my biggest pet peeves in movies
1:40:42when people set up dates
1:40:43and never arrange a location or a time.
1:40:45- Yeah, or they'll be like,
1:40:47"Yeah, I'll pick you up for lunch."
1:40:48"All right, what?"
1:40:50- Like, where are you?
1:40:51Do you know where she lives?
1:40:52Like, I like that they just put that on there.
1:40:54like it really annoys me when people leave that out in movies it's like just
1:40:58this ambiguous time and all location of where this date will occur yeah and then
1:41:03you know he's kind of psyching himself up like in his dorm room and I really
1:41:07like the scene where his friend is Jimbo is trying to like give him the lines to
1:41:13use for the ladies like you know it is like real sensitive line I feel like
1:41:16we've got his arm and that sort of stuff as he's giving him the the full patter
1:41:20as it were. Which he uses many times throughout this movie on various ladies or at least tries
1:41:28to.
1:41:29Indeed, and we also at some point in here he also gets the letter from his friend who's
1:41:33at, you know, UCLA or something like that. He's in college in Southern California telling
1:41:39him about how amazing it is out there while it's just the brutal winter and it's getting
1:41:43on toward Christmas and it's the brutal cold has come to the Northeast and his pal is just
1:41:49in a like a parody of almost of what you'd expect because that's how I always viewed
1:41:57it is that even though he goes there and it actually is this way but it is like the dream
1:42:02Southern California college thing which is we don't really go to school and we hang out
1:42:06on the beach and everybody's got there's a beach house and there's a pool and the beach
1:42:11is over there and there are girls in bikinis and we're all just partying and drinking beer
1:42:16and that's all we do all the time at Southern California University, which is not University
1:42:21of Southern California, it's slightly less academic. Anyway.
1:42:26And they have a phone call, don't they? Which I really like. So his friend, what was his
1:42:33friend's name? Lance. Lance. They're having a phone call and Gib is like freezing in a
1:42:39corridor and Lance is like walking outside by a pool in the sun and he's got a Hawaiian
1:42:43shot on and there's girls playing volleyball and it's like it's just fantastic to just
1:42:48watch this like night and day it's like hey it's amazing here and he's like these his
1:42:52friends is is um has a lady in his room and there's various various sounds coming from
1:42:59the room so he's just like completely shut out in this cold corridor listening to his
1:43:04friend being like come on man there's this sure thing over here get your way to California
1:43:09So they start the journey to California, right?
1:43:13And he goes to like this board and it's like some ride?
1:43:16What is that about?
1:43:17What is going on?
1:43:18- Okay, so yeah.
1:43:19So Anthony Edwards tells him, "Come to California."
1:43:20She's got to go on her semester at sea on December 22nd or whatever, which is hilarious
1:43:25'cause that's exactly when you'd start the semester at sea is right before Christmas time.
1:43:28That's not a thing.
1:43:29But anyway, the idea here is you got to get to see her before she goes off and leaves
1:43:35because she's a sure thing.
1:43:36She was in a parochial school or something.
1:43:38She is built up as this basically like, "She's beautiful and we'll have sex with you, so
1:43:43come to California and also it's warm here, but you got to get here by a certain date."
1:43:48And it's about to be the Christmas break, so he goes to the ride share board, which,
1:43:52Myke, this was a thing, that there would be a place that you could go if you were... They
1:43:56had this when I was in college. I never used it, but if you were driving to... I went to
1:44:01school in San Diego, Southern California University, we didn't have the swimming pool and the girls
1:44:04playing volleyball in the swimming pool, I have to say. As somebody who went to a Southern
1:44:07California University, but they would have the board and it would have like driving to
1:44:13LA, you know, and you would, people would like sign up to go with them and you drop
1:44:18them off. And we actually had that when we went to LA for Thanksgiving one year from
1:44:22up here. My wife's sister was at Berkeley and she had a friend and it was like, you
1:44:30know, it was the same idea. It's like we dropped her off along the way because she lived in
1:44:33the northern part of LA. So we kind of went out of our way a little, dropped her off and
1:44:36and then continued on. And back in the day before the internet especially, that was sort
1:44:39of how you did it, is you pinned these messages up and they did like rideshare and you'd share,
1:44:44you know, you'd buy the gas or whatever and so everybody would win and that was how people
1:44:49got maybe not across the country, I don't know, that's kind of extreme, but it would
1:44:53totally, the ridesharing thing would happen.
1:44:56- So they do that, right? They go on a rideshare and the funny thing is, is that when a gift
1:45:03gets in the car, Alison is there, right?
1:45:05Because she is also taking this rideshare in the car that is being driven by a very
1:45:12young Tim Robbins.
1:45:13>> MATT: Yep.
1:45:14And Tim Robbins and his lady are singing show tunes.
1:45:19They are a lovely wholesome couple.
1:45:21And the whole time, Alison and Gib are just at each other's throats because Gib tried
1:45:26to get fresh, I guess, with Alison, and she wasn't having none of it.
1:45:30And so now they don't really like each other so much.
1:45:33But they're miss they're wacky and mismatched in the back of this car with the the husband and wife in the front who are super
1:45:38Perky and don't have kids of their own
1:45:40so they're expecting this is gonna be a really fun road trip with the college kids and the college kids are silent and
1:45:45staring daggers at each other and
1:45:47and there's a lot of funny contrast and they sing the show tunes and
1:45:52And they're totally bringing down the the happy couple
1:45:57And then it gets to the point where they get thrown out onto the road and they have to
1:46:03make their own way, right?
1:46:04Like, Tim Robbins has just had enough and he just chucks them out of the car.
1:46:07So they begin the process.
1:46:09Well, you remember the reason why.
1:46:12Ultimately he goes, Gib, after having a thing where we hear about that she's got this boyfriend,
1:46:17Jason, sounds like a terrible guy, in LA, and they are sharing the hotel room and she's
1:46:25gonna says I've got a schedule. It's very proto when Harry met Sally in some ways, like
1:46:30she's super uptight and he's not. And so she's like, I got a schedule, you'll sleep on the
1:46:36bed and alternating nights and I'll sleep on the floor and we'll alternate but tonight
1:46:39you're on the floor. And he gets really frustrated with that. And he needles her in the car the
1:46:44next day and says, come on, you got to do something spontaneous. And she says, I like
1:46:47to do things that are spontaneous when it's been planned out or whatever she says, it's
1:46:51very funny and then he finally basically gets her to take to lift her shirt up and show
1:46:56her boobs to the on an oncoming bit of traffic and this outrages Tim Robbins and and his
1:47:04wife and they they they throw him out of the car because I get pulled over by the police
1:47:08and he gets a ticket right oh that's true that's true cut cut to he's being written
1:47:14up for indecent exposure and reckless driving and whatever else for things that would not
1:47:19be his fault but he's the driver of the car I guess and at that point they just leave
1:47:23them they leave them by the side of the road in a place that looks suspiciously like where
1:47:27I grew up it's like the the it's very clearly the foothills of Northern California which
1:47:31is where they shot a lot of this movie but it's supposedly out in the middle of the United
1:47:36States somewhere.
1:47:38So because I knew where you grew up and that kind of thing right Gib and Alison go hitchhiking
1:47:45at this point so have you ever hitchhiked?
1:47:48Okay, it seems horrific to me is the thing to do.
1:47:51Yeah.
1:47:52Yeah.
1:47:53Like, it seems horrible.
1:47:54I don't like meeting people, Myke, and hitchhiking is meeting people roulette.
1:47:58No.
1:47:59Never.
1:48:00There's this one scene where Allison and Gib have heard a big argument and she jumps into
1:48:06a van, he tells her not to go, Gib jumps into the back of the truck and Allison is kind
1:48:12of accosted by the gentleman driving the car, and he, and then, so then Gib jumps into the
1:48:17front of the car and like acts like a crazy person. It's a really great scene and it's
1:48:22like I'm talking about a total maniac like it's really fantastic.
1:48:28They try very hard to lighten it because it's very dark that basically she's been picked
1:48:33up by a guy who picks up pretty girl hitchhikers and rapes them. That's a dark way to go but
1:48:40then it's very quickly counterbalanced by the fact that Gib pops up in the back of the
1:48:45the truck and is looking in the window, which is a very funny moment because you're like,
1:48:50"Oh man, he's back there." And then he pops into the--they pull off by the side of the
1:48:54road and he pops into the door and the guy claims that Allison is his wife and so Jock
1:49:00is like, "Oh, your wife!" And he goes like a crazy person and he says, "Now I'm just
1:49:05gonna go out--I'm gonna take my wife--take your wife with me." And he pulls her out and
1:49:10pulls the stuff out of the back as the guy speeds off and it's a nice moment, I guess,
1:49:15where she is willing to forgive some things about him because, you know, he was looking
1:49:20out for her.
1:49:22I like, um, it's kind of interesting to me how this movie at this point becomes like
1:49:30a buddy cop movie. Like, which I wasn't expecting, right?
1:49:35For me, this is the moment where the movie flips over into Brilliant. It's like we've
1:49:39set for half an hour, we've sort of set up that they're in opposition. Really, the pitch
1:49:43of this movie is these two people who don't like each other but actually are going to
1:49:48fall in love are forced to hitchhike across the country when, you know, and this is where
1:49:54it starts. It's really, it's right here.
1:49:56Yeah, because it becomes one of those scenarios where like they grow to love each other and
1:50:00they're pushed apart. Like it's, it becomes that, which I wasn't expecting this movie
1:50:03to be at all. I really love it when, so they're going to get a bus together, right? They end
1:50:11up hitchhiking to a bus station and they're about to get a bus and have their first real
1:50:15heartwarming moment where Allison gives the money to get a bus ticket but she's gonna
1:50:19go earlier than him. So she leaves to get the bus, he sits down, starts watching TV
1:50:25and they quickly just do a quick cut of the camera angle and Allison has gotten off the
1:50:30bus and she's just standing over him watching the TV with him. I really like that moment,
1:50:34that was really nice. Yeah, she doesn't give him the money yet, she offers to give him
1:50:38the money later but he doesn't have the money at that point.
1:50:40Oh, I thought she gave him the money at that point.
1:50:42No, no, she offers to give him like $50 or something like that of her $70 but he refuses
1:50:47and he's basically going to just sort of sit there at the bus station I think is how it
1:50:51is but she can't, this is her opportunity to not leave him behind so she doesn't leave
1:50:56him behind.
1:50:57Okay.
1:50:58And they're going to go on and you know, go on together and hitchhike the rest of the
1:51:01way.
1:51:02So then they're kind of like, they're going from place to place, like they're growing
1:51:05closer together right during this period of time they're warming up to each other even
1:51:12to the point where like Gib gets angry that Alison is on the phone to her boyfriend yeah
1:51:18and he goes out and gets drunk yeah in a bar because because he's he thought that they
1:51:24were making that connection but she's still talking to the boyfriend and he comes back
1:51:28and he's super drunk but she like tucks him in at night and that sort of stuff it's kind
1:51:31They're kind of cute and then the next day like he's rushing her to leave and she leaves this scheduled book that she has which
1:51:37Has all of our money in it and she's planned out this whole trip for them. She leaves it in the hotel
1:51:41They go on a few different hitchhiking adventures before they realize that the book has actually been lost and
1:51:48But then it was to rain it starts to rain but the way that they do the schedule book being lost is fantastic
1:51:55She's like right we can eat every 200 miles. So they go to a certain point they go to a cafe
1:51:59They're so excited to go in and eat. They're like talking about what they're gonna order
1:52:01They walk in and the camera just stays on the door for a few seconds
1:52:05And then they stall back out again and gives like how could you lose your schedule book?
1:52:09And I really like that at this point. They've quickly assumed the stereotypical roles of a married couple
1:52:14Mm-hmm, which is really cute
1:52:16Then it starts to rain and they start to like try and find a place and then
1:52:20Allison remembers that she has a credit card that can only be used in emergencies
1:52:25So then cut to this extremely lavish hotel that they're in with this beautiful meal that they're eating
1:52:30They're the only place that took credit cards. Of course, they're eating veal and salmon and this is kind of where the movie
1:52:37Ends up for me like having more heart than I expected
1:52:40Like there's this scene that evening where they're lying in bed together
1:52:44Like usually be one of them on the bed one with them on the floor
1:52:46But this is the first night that they're gonna share a bed together like nothing's really going on because she trusts him
1:52:53She says, you know, this is unlike before.
1:52:55She's like, no, no, you can sleep on the bed too.
1:52:57It's fine.
1:52:58She's like, there's a level of trust
1:52:59that they have with each other
1:53:00having been through all of this.
1:53:01And in the morning, he wakes up
1:53:04and his arm's kind of around her.
1:53:07And he's super apologetic.
1:53:09Like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
1:53:11I didn't mean to do that.
1:53:12I feel really bad.
1:53:12And so he's learned this, you know,
1:53:16he's trying to honor her choices
1:53:18and be a good guy and be a good friend.
1:53:21And her response is like, it's fine, right?
1:53:24Like she, cause she does, she totally trusts him.
1:53:26It's fine.
1:53:27And they, they, they have built that connection now
1:53:29where it's the complete opposite of that first hotel room
1:53:32scene where he decides he's going to sleep on the bed
1:53:34and she just goes and sleeps on the floor.
1:53:36- And then Gib goes and stands out on the veranda
1:53:38to cool down, I assume.
1:53:39Like, he's just like, I'm going to go stand on the veranda.
1:53:41Like he just goes out there and just stands there
1:53:43for a while.
1:53:44But it's, it's really nice how they like,
1:53:46they warm to each other in this way,
1:53:48but they end up getting to LA.
1:53:51So they get into this truck and Allison is asleep,
1:53:54or at least they believe that she is asleep.
1:53:56And Gib is talking to the truck driver
1:53:58and telling him about the sure thing,
1:54:01the reason that he's going to California.
1:54:03Because at this point, Gib is pretty convinced
1:54:05that he hasn't got a shot, right?
1:54:07Because Allison seems to still be hung up on her boyfriend.
1:54:10- That conversation actually begins with a guy saying,
1:54:14you and your girlfriend,
1:54:20And he says, "No, she's not my girlfriend.
1:54:22She's got a boyfriend in LA."
1:54:23And the truck driver says something like,
1:54:25"Oh, that's a shame."
1:54:27And John Cusack looks back and makes sure she's asleep.
1:54:29And he says, "Yeah, it is."
1:54:31And it's like, that's his moment of revealing
1:54:33that he's written her off and is very sad about it,
1:54:37but she's got a boyfriend and that's just how it is.
1:54:38And he's got to deal with it.
1:54:40And what happens next is that they're talking
1:54:43about the sure thing and that's when she wakes up.
1:54:45So she doesn't hear him regret the fact
1:54:48that he can't be with her because she's got a boyfriend. All she hears is that he's going
1:54:52to go to Anthony Edwards' place and meet Nicolette Sheridan.
1:54:57But the truck driver puts the foot down, right? He's like, "You can't waste this opportunity."
1:55:01Like he's got to get in there.
1:55:02No. She's going to be gone in a couple of days. It's like, "All right, if you pay the
1:55:06speeding tickets, and off they go with the truck through other parts of California that
1:55:12we're being shown."
1:55:13And then it's really great. Like, they're in the same university, right? So...
1:55:16UCLA apparently yeah. Alison is going to visit her boyfriend who I think's name was Jason.
1:55:21Yes he's Jason and he he's really boring and likes tea. Yeah so he's the worst the worst
1:55:28and he wears glasses. I just realized that. He is the worst human being any you find a Jason who
1:55:34went to college in Southern California drinks tea wears glasses uh super boring boring dump him dump
1:55:40him ladies dump him. Why would anybody want to spend time with a guy like that? Um excuse me I'm
1:55:45I'm gonna sip my tea now." Yeah, please do. Their nights really diverge at this point.
1:55:48Like, Alison is like super bored now of her boyfriend and everything about him. She like is--
1:55:53They're playing cards! Yeah. She wants to shotgun a beer because Gib taught her that. And he wants
1:55:59to make tea and play cards and when she says "Let's do something exciting," he says "How about I spot
1:56:05you 50 points at cards?" So it's insulting because he's saying she's not very good at it
1:56:10and still really boring. And then Gib is off at a party right where he meets the sure thing.
1:56:16But then Alison sees the party and she wants to go to a party too so she kind of arrives with her
1:56:24boyfriend and at this point Gib isn't sure if he wants to go through with the sure thing because
1:56:29he's in love with Alison but when he sees them two coming together he's like screw it and there's
1:56:33this whole scene where they're like both as couples dancing near each other and then it comes out that
1:56:38that Gib is actually a virgin even though he had claims of sexual prowess but it seems
1:56:44like that has not been the case.
1:56:46Or, I'm not clear on if that's actually the case because they say in the first scene in
1:56:51the movie he talks about having sex a few times.
1:56:53I think, yeah I know that, I think that was bravado.
1:56:57Yeah but I think it's possible though that, because the implication is that Anthony Edwards
1:57:00has also downplayed him to the sure thing to make her, I guess, seem more charitable
1:57:06toward him. It's, you know, the sexual politics of a teen sex movie from the 80s are questionable
1:57:12at best, but I think that's--because he also--Anthony also--Edwards also suggests that he might
1:57:17be gay, so that's in the mix here too, which is not, you know, it's not the best. But the
1:57:22idea is regardless, Gibb feels insulted by Anthony Edwards, and then it also--there's
1:57:29a breakdown between Allison and Jason because she is way too familiar with Gibb and he is
1:57:35not aware of the fact that they've been traveling together and sleeping in the same motel rooms
1:57:40and all of those things and and so he's like how do you know this how does he know what
1:57:44you look like in the morning and you know all of these things right so it's everything
1:57:48is kind of falling apart she's like complaining to her boyfriend about how much this boy annoys
1:57:53her it's it's absolutely fantastic and then it kind of it kind of cuts to back at university
1:58:02right? That back to school.
1:58:03Well, so the last scene in LA is he takes Nicolette Sheridan, the sure thing, to the
1:58:12bedroom and they're talking. And earlier, I should say, there's a-- he has a series
1:58:16of dream sequences with Nicolette Sheridan that are kind of amusing where there's a really
1:58:20great one where he's-- where she is sitting by the side of the pool basically begging
1:58:24him to have more sex with her and he's sitting in this pool chair floating around and saying,
1:58:28"No, you know, I'm tired," and all of that. That is, it's staged very amusingly. And then
1:58:34there are several of those, which are very, you know, teen boy fantasy kind of scenarios.
1:58:39And then the last one, he has that same kind of scenario and it's Allison, right? So that's
1:58:44that moment of like, "Oh, he's really got now." So here, he goes up with her like, "This
1:58:50is the time he's finally going to be able to do it with The Sure Thing," and we cut
1:58:57away and we don't we don't really see a realization of what exactly happens there other than that
1:59:01we know that he is you know he's thinking about Allison and we cut back to college after
1:59:06winter break.
1:59:07And Gib has written a paper that the lecturer starts to read a lot.
1:59:11Our Swedish lecturer yes.
1:59:13It's called The Sure Thing and it explains the whole story up to the point where he says
1:59:18that he couldn't go through of it because that's right the sure thing wanted to say
1:59:24that he loved her and he couldn't do that because now he knew what love was.
1:59:28The answer was no.
1:59:31And at that moment she's looking back, Alison was looking back at him
1:59:36and he's looking at her and she realizes that uh that he didn't go
1:59:43upstairs and uh have sex with the sure thing
1:59:46because he's in love with her and this is the way he chose to
1:59:48express it is several weeks later in an essay in the middle of class being read
1:59:52by the Swedish lady. The only way to express true love, Jason. As you do. So I really like this movie.
1:59:58My problem with this movie is I'd seen Say Anything. Uh yeah, yeah, well it's, it's, it's,
2:00:07it's funny too because he's like kind of a proto, he's more intelligent than the guy in Say Anything,
2:00:14I think, because in some ways, because he does go off to like an Ivy League college instead of
2:00:18sort of staying home and trying not to join the army, but he is a similar kind of character,
2:00:26and Allison is very much like the lead in the female lead in "Say Anything," right?
2:00:33They're similar. I would say if you--we haven't done "When Harry Met Sally" yet, have we?
2:00:39-No. -Have you seen that movie?
2:00:42-No. -Okay, maybe we'll do that. That's another
2:00:45Rob Reiner movie with Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal. And there is, in the beginning of that movie,
2:00:51there's a drive from Chicago to New York that they take that also I feel like is very similar,
2:00:58and their relationship is very similar to the relationship in this movie. So you see,
2:01:04you saw them out of order. I feel like this is like a proto movie of other movies. Like,
2:01:09it leads to Say Anything and it leads to When Harry Met Sally. But it is not, and it leads
2:01:15to High Fidelity, maybe in some ways, I don't know. But it is earlier, right? So it's, yeah,
2:01:21it's not quite as fully formed. Say Anything kind of picks up after two minutes. And here
2:01:26I feel like it takes 25 minutes of setup before the movie really starts to crank. And the
2:01:31first 25 minutes is not particularly warm or likable because it's about, you know, freshmen
2:01:38and in college who are on the make and it's just kind of like that stuff really doesn't
2:01:41interest me and then it then it really kicks into gear and then the last whatever the last
2:01:48hour of it is spectacular but you're right it is it is like a lot of these other movies
2:01:52and Cusack is a lot like he is in Say Anything and that it is a similar kind of mismatch
2:01:58relationship and it's just because I loved that movie so much that's a that's a better
2:02:03movie than this movie yeah but I did really enjoy this movie I also like that it was like
2:02:08hundred minutes that felt right yeah a lot of the movies that we've been
2:02:12watching are two hours more so many two hour long movies that are made these
2:02:17days and this is 95 and it's it's it's uh tight and bright as they say it is a
2:02:22solid you know it sort of sweeps you along it's very it's uh yeah I I like it
2:02:29a lot I have not seen this one in a very long time and I remember liking it and
2:02:33as I started to watch it I thought oh no what if my memory is faulty and it's not
2:02:36that good. But then, like I said, 20 minutes in or somewhere, I'm like, "Oh, yeah. Oh,
2:02:41yeah. No, no, this is really great." And I will say my experience actually, part of the
2:02:48reason I love this movie is that it's got some resonance for me and it's not because
2:02:50there's that boring Jason who drinks tea. It's because my relationship, so I met my
2:02:57wife in college and I had a girlfriend and she had a boyfriend. And I see us in this
2:03:02movie in the sense that these two characters make a connection but they are not capable
2:03:12and it's one-sided and in the case of this well unless you consider the sure thing the
2:03:15thing that's pulling him but that she's an illusion I actually really like that that
2:03:19although she does exist it is a it is a stand-in for kind of a male fantasy of a woman as opposed
2:03:26to a real woman and that's what this movie is about is that he falls in love with a real
2:03:30woman and the fantasy is not going to measure up to reality. The reality is better. She's
2:03:36a real woman and he loves her and that is the most important thing, right? And it just,
2:03:40but I have that mirror because that was exactly the same situation my wife and I were in in
2:03:46college where we were dating other people and we formed a really tight connection and,
2:03:52you know, there was definitely a moment where she broke up. I heard that she had broken
2:03:59up with her boyfriend right after I graduated from college. And it was exactly like the
2:04:03moment in the movie where he says, "You broke up with him?" It was like, "Oh, what a relief."
2:04:10Well, now there's nothing stopping us from getting together, and that is how this movie
2:04:13ends. So that's great too. But I do like that overarching message that for all of the stuff
2:04:18at the beginning that's kind of gross, especially, I think, 30 years later about things you say
2:04:23to get women to go out with you and to get women to sleep with you. In the end, what's
2:04:26the core message of this movie. That the sure thing is not what he wants, that she's a fantasy,
2:04:32and that Allison is who he wants and she's a real person and she's not perfect for him
2:04:39in the sense that she does all sorts of things that he doesn't like and he does all sorts
2:04:42of things that she doesn't like, but in the end they're the ones who should be together.
2:04:49Aww.
2:04:50I like these movies of like the heartwarming love story. I'm a sucker for it and this one ticks those boxes
2:04:56So it recommended another great mic at the movies pick Jason you do very well. Thank you
2:05:01Thank you. This is I'm happy we could combine Rob Reiner and John Cusack. This is where they come together
2:05:08So now we'll the past will diverge again, but but we got it. We got them together right here
2:05:13This series is all about Cusack for me. Gotta say we gotta go for high fidelity soon. I think yeah, it's in the 90s
2:05:19but or maybe even 2000 but it may be we may have to go there we may have to take a time
2:05:24machine forward to there.
2:05:26If you want to find the show notes for this week's episode you want to head on over to
2:05:31relay.fm/upgrade/64.
2:05:36Thank you so much to the good people, our lovely sponsors today.
2:05:40The great people over at Smile with Texas Band of Five, Hover, Igloo and Braintree.
2:05:44If you want to find Jason online head on over to SixColors.com.
2:05:47Don't forget to sign up for the six color subscription. You can also find Jason. He is at Jason L
2:05:52J s ne double L and I am at I Myke I am y k e
2:05:57Thanks so much to you for listening as always and we'll be back next time with upgrade until then. Say goodbye Jason
2:06:04Goodbye
2:06:07[ Music ]