Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► from relay FM this is upgrade episode number 62 today's show is brought to you

00:00:13 ◼   ► by lynda.com stamps.com and casper my name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr Jason Snell

00:00:20 ◼   ► hi Myke hi Jason Snell how are you I'm doing uh I'm doing fine it rained here in California today

00:00:25 ◼   ► so we don't know what to do with ourselves.

00:00:27 ◼   ► - Oof, well I wonder what that's gonna do for the show today.

00:00:30 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:00:31 ◼   ► It's not raining now,

00:00:32 ◼   ► and the thunder and lightning have stopped

00:00:34 ◼   ► because in my only semi-insulated garage,

00:00:38 ◼   ► I have found that it's quite pleasant actually when it rains,

00:00:41 ◼   ► but it's audible.

00:00:42 ◼   ► So that would be interesting to do the rain podcast,

00:00:46 ◼   ► but alas, I think it stopped raining now.

00:00:48 ◼   ► - It has not rained here today,

00:00:50 ◼   ► so we are in kind of bizarro land.

00:00:52 ◼   ► - It is weird.

00:00:53 ◼   ► The sun appears to be coming out right now

00:00:55 ◼   ► because it is California. That's it, dry up all that rain. Get us back to the brown.

00:00:58 ◼   ► I bet it's still like 25 degrees Celsius when it rains.

00:01:02 ◼   ► It's uh it's 51 right now here. I don't know what that means.

00:01:06 ◼   ► Uh that's 10. Okay that's that's similar to here probably. Let me see what my

00:01:13 ◼   ► weatherman says. Um we have oh 16 degrees. Look at that.

00:01:19 ◼   ► It's the weathercast. It's warmer there too. Yeah we're uh it's all messed up Myke.

00:01:23 ◼   ► everything's ruined. Should we do some follow-up? Yeah I think I think some

00:01:29 ◼   ► follow-up would be perfect. So I've come to a decision I think about my storage

00:01:35 ◼   ► needs. Storage! Vertical! Vertical! And I think so I've had a few people suggest

00:01:44 ◼   ► this but I had seen it but didn't really pay too much attention to it which is a

00:01:48 ◼   ► product called the Drobo Mini. The Drobo Mini is as much smaller box and

00:01:53 ◼   ► and it can connect by Thunderbolt and USB 3, I think.

00:01:57 ◼   ► But what makes the Drobo Mini different

00:02:01 ◼   ► is that the Drobo Mini can take two and a half inch SSDs.

00:02:05 ◼   ► So this is probably the product I'm going to go for

00:02:09 ◼   ► because I can attach it locally,

00:02:11 ◼   ► which is what I want to do.

00:02:13 ◼   ► And it's SSD, so it will be super fast, quiet,

00:02:16 ◼   ► and everything else that I want.

00:02:18 ◼   ► - Up to four laptop drives essentially,

00:02:22 ◼   ► but that includes SSDs.

00:02:24 ◼   ► So you could get up to four SSDs in an array.

00:02:27 ◼   ► That's not quite a RAID because it's Drobo

00:02:29 ◼   ► and Drobo is not quite a RAID, it's its own thing.

00:02:33 ◼   ► That's interesting.

00:02:34 ◼   ► That's an interesting,

00:02:34 ◼   ► that will get you your fast silent storage, won't it?

00:02:37 ◼   ► - It will, but there is one,

00:02:38 ◼   ► there is two problems with this.

00:02:41 ◼   ► SSDs are still relatively small.

00:02:45 ◼   ► - And expensive.

00:02:48 ◼   ► - And extremely expensive, that's problem too.

00:02:50 ◼   ► So I found an Amazon,

00:02:52 ◼   ► 'cause I wanted to take a look at the prices of SSDs,

00:02:55 ◼   ► what was available and what was kind of tested

00:02:58 ◼   ► and approved by Drobo.

00:03:00 ◼   ► And there are some SSDs that I found,

00:03:03 ◼   ► I think it was Samsung, which are a terabyte,

00:03:05 ◼   ► but they're 250 pounds each.

00:03:08 ◼   ► And the enclosure is 500 pounds.

00:03:10 ◼   ► - That's very heavy.

00:03:11 ◼   ► That sounds much heavier than it should be.

00:03:13 ◼   ► Oh, you mean money.

00:03:14 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:15 ◼   ► That's still, that's actually very heavy for money.

00:03:17 ◼   ► - Womp, womp, womp.

00:03:19 ◼   ► - Womp, womp.

00:03:20 ◼   ► Well, we converted Fahrenheit to Celsius earlier.

00:03:22 ◼   ► It's only fair.

00:03:23 ◼   ► That's, that's yeah, it's not cheap.

00:03:26 ◼   ► - So I will be looking at four terabytes for 1,500 pounds.

00:03:31 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

00:03:33 ◼   ► That's like buying another, how much did your iMac cost?

00:03:35 ◼   ► - That's half the price of my iMac.

00:03:37 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:03:38 ◼   ► - So basically this is the solution

00:03:41 ◼   ► that I am planning on going for,

00:03:43 ◼   ► but now I need to get the money together to get it.

00:03:46 ◼   ► And with the iPad Pro just around the corner,

00:03:49 ◼   ► it might be a couple of months away.

00:03:51 ◼   ► But this one feels like the right one for me.

00:03:53 ◼   ► Again, four terabytes is a lot,

00:03:55 ◼   ► but it's not as much as I could get in another solution.

00:03:59 ◼   ► I understand that, but I have to kind of weigh up

00:04:02 ◼   ► what I'm looking for.

00:04:03 ◼   ► And I'm not looking to keep everything

00:04:06 ◼   ► that I make forever,

00:04:07 ◼   ► I'm just looking to keep a bunch of things for a long time.

00:04:11 ◼   ► And four terabytes is probably more than enough to do that.

00:04:15 ◼   ► By the time that I would need more,

00:04:17 ◼   ► I'm sure I could get bigger SSDs for cheaper.

00:04:20 ◼   ► I think I'm only using about two or three terabytes in my archive where I'm literally

00:04:26 ◼   ► not throwing away anything on my Drobo, my big Drobo, and although some of that space

00:04:32 ◼   ► will be used by Drobo because it does its thing where it's redundant, so if something

00:04:38 ◼   ► dies something else lives and all that, and it depends on how you set it up.

00:04:41 ◼   ► But yeah, that's that I mean that's a lot of space and silent, which is the other key

00:04:46 ◼   ► thing instead of having... the thing that I hated about having the external hard drives

00:04:50 ◼   ► was that I ended up with that stack. I ended up with like three one terabyte hard drives

00:04:55 ◼   ► in their own enclosures and they were all noisy and they were all on the chain and you

00:04:59 ◼   ► had to find a place for them. I just hated it. So something like this, it's a clever

00:05:04 ◼   ► idea and the nice thing about it is that you don't have to fill it up, right? You could

00:05:09 ◼   ► put two in and then buy another one later and slide that one in and it adds to your

00:05:13 ◼   ► storage and then you know and then add a fourth and then at some point down the

00:05:17 ◼   ► way down the road when the SSD prices are better take one of the smaller SSDs

00:05:21 ◼   ► and replace it with a bigger one and it all just kind of keeps working so.

00:05:25 ◼   ► I may get the enclosure and one SSD right one 1 terabyte SSD or maybe like

00:05:32 ◼   ► two 500 or something like that and go from there I think that that might be a

00:05:37 ◼   ► good place to start. Like I don't need to max it out immediately. So this is

00:05:43 ◼   ► probably what I'm gonna go for. It seems to tick most of the boxes and I did kind

00:05:46 ◼   ► of want something like a Drobo because I like the idea of the Drobo system right

00:05:52 ◼   ► where it kind of you don't get you don't get four terabytes by putting four

00:05:56 ◼   ► terabytes in it but what you get is data redundancy and that seems like a good

00:06:02 ◼   ► thing for me considering the setup that I have you know I have limited bandwidth

00:06:06 ◼   ► so I can't back up a lot of this stuff to an online backup.

00:06:11 ◼   ► So it wants to be offline,

00:06:14 ◼   ► so I like the idea of data redundancy

00:06:16 ◼   ► in my offline backup system.

00:06:19 ◼   ► If I get online and offline right way around,

00:06:22 ◼   ► then I'll be in a much better stead for this conversation.

00:06:24 ◼   ► But that's kind of what I'm thinking about doing.

00:06:26 ◼   ► This seems like the right solution for me.

00:06:28 ◼   ► So that's what I'm considering.

00:06:30 ◼   ► And then maybe in a couple of years time,

00:06:32 ◼   ► or maybe in a year or so, when we're in our own place,

00:06:36 ◼   ► might be able to look at something that's network attached as well as this.

00:06:40 ◼   ► So I have a big honking disc that is attached to this thing and then I could

00:06:45 ◼   ► also back up everything to something like a Synology as well. Step one, Jason,

00:06:50 ◼   ► step one. It's a good place to start. I'm very happy to have a big

00:06:57 ◼   ► drive that is, you know, one and a big logical volume because that's the other

00:07:01 ◼   ► problem about having those three drives is that they're three different volumes

00:07:04 ◼   ► so you end up having to kind of manage what goes where

00:07:07 ◼   ► and what's full and what's not.

00:07:09 ◼   ► And I hate that, I hate that too.

00:07:11 ◼   ► So it's nice having just a huge volume.

00:07:13 ◼   ► I can check all my stuff in there and it's there.

00:07:16 ◼   ► My problem has been, and I haven't mentioned this yet.

00:07:19 ◼   ► So I've been using CrashPlan as my primary online backup

00:07:23 ◼   ► for a while now and it works well.

00:07:28 ◼   ► It's not the most beautiful thing to look at,

00:07:29 ◼   ► but it works pretty well.

00:07:31 ◼   ► but I discovered the other day that it was basically failing at backing up my entire

00:07:39 ◼   ► server volume, which is this big volume, because it didn't have enough memory allocated to it,

00:07:45 ◼   ► because it runs in Java and it needs memory allocation. And I'm still struggling with that.

00:07:50 ◼   ► And I talked to a couple people on Twitter who said, "Yeah, that's why I ended up switching

00:07:54 ◼   ► to backblaze was because my data set was too big." And it's a little bit infuriating because

00:07:59 ◼   ► CrashPlan offers unlimited data, basically, but clearly their app by default cannot...

00:08:10 ◼   ► Its idea of unlimited is pretty limited.

00:08:13 ◼   ► And their support said, "Okay, well, why don't you add more memory to the memory allocation?

00:08:18 ◼   ► You click here and you type something in."

00:08:20 ◼   ► And I did that.

00:08:22 ◼   ► And it's still kind of churning, but there are rumors that there is a CrashPlan native

00:08:28 ◼   ► app coming that doesn't require Java. And that would be nice because this is... And

00:08:35 ◼   ► I paid for like three years of crash plan. So I would really rather not just switch to

00:08:39 ◼   ► another backup provider at this point. And also, this is what I paid for is it's a volume

00:08:44 ◼   ► attached to a computer in my house and I'm paying for it to be backed up. And it was

00:08:50 ◼   ► basically the most disturbing thing about it was that it thought it was backing everything

00:08:54 ◼   ► up because it was sort of backing up everything that it could see before it sort of ran out

00:08:58 ◼   ► of memory. And that's the worst thing is that it didn't say, "Hey, I can't back up all of

00:09:05 ◼   ► that because there's not enough memory," and sort of alert me. Instead, it just sort of

00:09:09 ◼   ► silently went about backing up not everything, and that was not cool. So this is an edge

00:09:13 ◼   ► case, I will admit, because I'm asking it to back up a couple of terabytes of data,

00:09:18 ◼   ► but that's why I've got the service is to do this. So I will report back. I'm in touch

00:09:25 ◼   ► with their support people and I'll report back. But it's a little bit disappointing

00:09:29 ◼   ► because I do have stuff on there that I want backed up, eventually backed up offline or

00:09:34 ◼   ► backed up online somewhere and it can take its time and back up at night and you know

00:09:39 ◼   ► slowly trickle out. But I thought it was doing that and it turns out that it's sort of not

00:09:43 ◼   ► been doing that and that's frustrating.

00:09:45 ◼   ► For me, that's like finding out that that happened, I don't think I could trust it anymore.

00:09:50 ◼   ► Yeah, well, we'll see.

00:09:54 ◼   ► We'll see where it goes.

00:09:55 ◼   ► I've already paid for a couple more years of it, so I'm not going to...

00:09:58 ◼   ► I'm not gonna...

00:09:59 ◼   ► I'm going to see if I can either get it to work or get them to give me their forthcoming

00:10:07 ◼   ► non-Java version if it truly exists or what, but yeah.

00:10:11 ◼   ► But yeah, it's, hey, it reminded me of the days back

00:10:14 ◼   ► when you had to allocate memory to Mac apps

00:10:16 ◼   ► by selecting them and choosing get info in the classic days.

00:10:20 ◼   ► And you know, that was like one big troubleshooting thing

00:10:24 ◼   ► was that you would select an app and choose get info

00:10:27 ◼   ► and then you'd change how much memory was allocated to it.

00:10:30 ◼   ► There was like literally,

00:10:31 ◼   ► I don't know if you remember this at all,

00:10:32 ◼   ► there was literally a box that would say like 900K

00:10:35 ◼   ► and you could put it at 1900K.

00:10:38 ◼   ► - No, that's before my time, I'm afraid.

00:10:39 ◼   ► Oh man, and this was exactly what I got with the Java thing.

00:10:43 ◼   ► It was like, "Oh, I'll allocate more memory.

00:10:44 ◼   ► "Click on the thing to bring up the console

00:10:47 ◼   ► "and put in this command line command

00:10:48 ◼   ► "and it will allocate more memory in Java for the app."

00:10:51 ◼   ► And I thought, wow, feeling like 1998 all over again.

00:10:56 ◼   ► - Ah.

00:10:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, they are a sponsor.

00:11:00 ◼   ► I use Backblaze.

00:11:01 ◼   ► I pay for Backblaze as well.

00:11:04 ◼   ► And I have them running on my laptop,

00:11:09 ◼   ► is connected to my home internet which is not... I don't have it running on my

00:11:13 ◼   ► iMac because that's connected to the LTE hotspot that I pay for. So basically

00:11:17 ◼   ► whenever the MacBook is on it sort of trickles data up to backblaze and a very

00:11:21 ◼   ► very very slow internet connection that I have. But I like that it's there and it's

00:11:27 ◼   ► just another place for me to... basically for me to back up my Dropbox right? So

00:11:31 ◼   ► it's just like a secondary place that all of that stuff goes to. Which I kind

00:11:36 ◼   ► like that I have that. But it doesn't cause me the issues and I really don't

00:11:40 ◼   ► like the idea that it looks like it's backing up what you're having and but

00:11:45 ◼   ► it's not that is a kind of like at that point it's kind of horrifying.

00:11:48 ◼   ► It's basically not seeing everything when it sets the backup set for some reason

00:11:52 ◼   ► because it runs out of memory or it times out or something like that and so

00:11:56 ◼   ► and then rather than throwing an alert it just says okay I guess this is it I'll

00:11:59 ◼   ► back it up. It's probably not good.

00:12:04 ◼   ► Also, just before we recorded today, there was an update for the Apple TV.

00:12:09 ◼   ► Apparently it's 9.0.1, which is what it relates to from the beta builds.

00:12:15 ◼   ► It doesn't say that on the Apple TV, it just says there's a software update available,

00:12:19 ◼   ► and there are no release notes, so there's no way of knowing what it does.

00:12:24 ◼   ► But I mean, 9.0.1, you'd assume bug fixes.

00:12:29 ◼   ► And no matter what it is, I'm happy to see the pace of release.

00:12:35 ◼   ► It shows that there are at least some people working on it, right?

00:12:38 ◼   ► That they had a 9.0.1 released basically a week after the product came out.

00:12:42 ◼   ► So I think that's good.

00:12:43 ◼   ► I think that's good to see.

00:12:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:45 ◼   ► I wish it was...

00:12:46 ◼   ► I'll let you provide some detail though, right?

00:12:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:50 ◼   ► I mean, my feeling about it though, it's just going to say bug fixes.

00:12:52 ◼   ► You know, it's just going to be one of those ones anyway.

00:12:54 ◼   ► So there's kind of no...

00:12:55 ◼   ► Sure.

00:12:56 ◼   ► What it's showing, there's kind of no point in seeing it.

00:12:58 ◼   ► But I'm just happy to see that something's going on there.

00:13:02 ◼   ► Let's talk about Apple TV a little bit, but before we do that, we'll follow up from last

00:13:07 ◼   ► week.

00:13:08 ◼   ► All good stuff to say this week I think.

00:13:10 ◼   ► Or at least less bad stuff.

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00:14:28 ◼   ► So it's been a week since we last spoke about the Apple TV so we both had a

00:14:34 ◼   ► little bit more time to play with it and I was wondering if there's any changed

00:14:39 ◼   ► opinions or just any kind of feelings or thoughts that you may have having spent

00:14:44 ◼   ► a little bit more time with the product and gotten over the initial frustrations

00:14:47 ◼   ► that we were finding last week?

00:14:49 ◼   ► Well, yeah, I think one of the challenges is I haven't set it up again, right?

00:14:55 ◼   ► Yeah, sure.

00:14:56 ◼   ► So if the complaints are about getting on board, this is when we talked about the iPhone,

00:15:00 ◼   ► it's the same thing, which is everybody complains about it and then they forget about it for

00:15:05 ◼   ► a year and then they hope that it's better and it's not and then they complain about

00:15:08 ◼   ► it again.

00:15:09 ◼   ► So I have no further complaints about setting it up because I haven't done that.

00:15:13 ◼   ► I wrote a piece on Six Colors about my daughter's birthday party this weekend where they ended

00:15:18 ◼   ► up basically playing music on the Apple TV and singing along for like an hour, loud.

00:15:26 ◼   ► It was kind of amazing and impressive.

00:15:29 ◼   ► And once I got it in the music app, just because they wanted to hear a particular song, then

00:15:35 ◼   ► my daughter took the remote away and pretty much was able to drive the rest of the entertainment.

00:15:42 ◼   ► But the one limitation was she kept navigating to the things she wanted and then pressing

00:15:49 ◼   ► the menu button or the play/pause button.

00:15:53 ◼   ► And she was like, "Daddy, what is happening?"

00:15:58 ◼   ► And which is sweet because that's the sort of thing that she used to say all the time

00:16:01 ◼   ► when she was seven and not so much when she's 14.

00:16:05 ◼   ► And what ended up happening was she didn't realize you could physically click on the

00:16:09 ◼   ► trackpad.

00:16:10 ◼   ► So she was moving with the trackpad and then figured she had to press a button.

00:16:15 ◼   ► And so I said, "No, no, you can just click, just actually click."

00:16:18 ◼   ► And she's like, "Oh, like real click?"

00:16:20 ◼   ► And she went, "Click."

00:16:21 ◼   ► And she was like, "Okay."

00:16:22 ◼   ► And then that was it.

00:16:23 ◼   ► They had a great time.

00:16:24 ◼   ► And so that was a real world kind of experience where they were able to navigate without any

00:16:30 ◼   ► problem and they were playing a lot of music on Apple Music Playlists and things and some

00:16:35 ◼   ► music videos too that they watched and they, yeah, they had a great time.

00:16:38 ◼   ► And then we did some--we took some pictures, we set up like a photo booth kind of thing

00:16:42 ◼   ► in my garage office space, actually.

00:16:45 ◼   ► I put up some lights and stuff, and I shared those over iCloud photo sharing, and then

00:16:51 ◼   ► we watched those.

00:16:52 ◼   ► That was sort of the last part of the party was that they were watching all the--they

00:16:55 ◼   ► looked at all the photo booth pictures on the TV, and there was much laughter at the

00:17:00 ◼   ► photo booth pictures.

00:17:01 ◼   ► And we just kind of kept that running as a screensaver while people picked up their daughters

00:17:07 ◼   ► at the end of the day from the party.

00:17:09 ◼   ► So yeah, so that was, I would say a positive interaction

00:17:11 ◼   ► with the Apple TV.

00:17:13 ◼   ► And I've done a couple other things this week with it

00:17:17 ◼   ► that let's see, we played "Crossy Road 2 Player"

00:17:21 ◼   ► a little bit more and had a good time with that.

00:17:23 ◼   ► And yeah, I have had pretty good experiences with it.

00:17:28 ◼   ► There's some stuff that, you know,

00:17:31 ◼   ► there are apps that I wish were on there

00:17:32 ◼   ► that aren't there yet, on there yet.

00:17:34 ◼   ► And I haven't used it as much as you would think

00:17:38 ◼   ► just because like I said,

00:17:39 ◼   ► I usually just watch Netflix through my TiVo at this point

00:17:43 ◼   ► because it serves as that.

00:17:45 ◼   ► And it runs Plex now too.

00:17:47 ◼   ► So I don't really need to go to the Apple TV for that stuff.

00:17:51 ◼   ► But yeah, I'd say it's been a perfectly fine experience.

00:17:54 ◼   ► The one thing that I would say that,

00:17:56 ◼   ► 'cause we obviously got a lot of feedback

00:17:57 ◼   ► about last week's episode.

00:17:59 ◼   ► One of the things that people pointed out is

00:18:02 ◼   ► The remote itself is not,

00:18:07 ◼   ► how should I put this?

00:18:10 ◼   ► It's the remote itself is a rectangle

00:18:12 ◼   ► with buttons on it, right?

00:18:13 ◼   ► And so it's hard to detect which end is up

00:18:16 ◼   ► when you pick it up in the dark,

00:18:17 ◼   ► which I think for a remote control,

00:18:19 ◼   ► this is the same reason why a pure,

00:18:21 ◼   ► like a touch screen interface,

00:18:24 ◼   ► where you have to look at the screen

00:18:25 ◼   ► is bad for a remote control,

00:18:26 ◼   ► because nobody wants to take their eyes off the TV

00:18:30 ◼   ► in order to control the remote.

00:18:31 ◼   ► Well, the Apple TV doesn't have a screen, so that's good.

00:18:33 ◼   ► Good call.

00:18:35 ◼   ► But you can lose the orientation where it's not,

00:18:37 ◼   ► it's not, it feels symmetric, symmetrical,

00:18:41 ◼   ► but somebody pointed out, it's not,

00:18:44 ◼   ► the buttons are not, right?

00:18:45 ◼   ► There's the, the up-down buttons are connected,

00:18:49 ◼   ► the what, the plus minus buttons are connected.

00:18:52 ◼   ► And the Siri button is actually concave,

00:18:55 ◼   ► a little tiny bit.

00:18:56 ◼   ► The problem is this reminds me actually of,

00:19:00 ◼   ► it's not quite as bad as the third generation iPod,

00:19:03 ◼   ► but if you remember that one with the four buttons across

00:19:05 ◼   ► that to orient, 'cause I used to listen to that

00:19:08 ◼   ► when I was waiting in my room for my daughter

00:19:11 ◼   ► to fall asleep, after I would read the story,

00:19:14 ◼   ► she'd want me to stay there until she fell asleep.

00:19:16 ◼   ► And I did that for a little while and it was really boring.

00:19:18 ◼   ► So I'd have like one earbud in

00:19:20 ◼   ► and I'd be sitting there listening to a audio book

00:19:22 ◼   ► or music or something.

00:19:23 ◼   ► And to orient with that,

00:19:25 ◼   ► you had to like move your fingers on the iPod

00:19:28 ◼   ► to try and figure out which button it was.

00:19:30 ◼   ► but if you touch the button,

00:19:31 ◼   ► which was the only way to orient,

00:19:32 ◼   ► it would do whatever that button did.

00:19:35 ◼   ► It's a really bad design.

00:19:35 ◼   ► - Is that the one with the touch sensitive buttons?

00:19:38 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:19:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the problem, right?

00:19:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:19:41 ◼   ► So I would say that that's the problem with this is yes,

00:19:44 ◼   ► if you look at it, you can orient it properly,

00:19:46 ◼   ► but by feel,

00:19:47 ◼   ► you have to sort of move your fingers across the buttons.

00:19:50 ◼   ► And if you accidentally press a button

00:19:52 ◼   ► or if you accidentally move your finger across the trackpad,

00:19:55 ◼   ► there's some input problems there.

00:19:56 ◼   ► But it is true that you can,

00:19:59 ◼   ► if you become savvy enough you can detect that really it's like your thumb if your thumb

00:20:04 ◼   ► is oriented on the on the up and down button properly you're like okay I've got it in the

00:20:08 ◼   ► right direction so it is there it's just really subtle maybe I guess if you were criticizing

00:20:13 ◼   ► it you would say maybe a little more subtle than it should be but there is it's not you

00:20:18 ◼   ► know it's not identical by feel.

00:20:22 ◼   ► So one of my big differences from this time last week is I now have one of the game controllers.

00:20:31 ◼   ► So I bought the Steel Nimbus controller.

00:20:35 ◼   ► And I would say everybody that I've spoken to about this seems to have vastly different

00:20:39 ◼   ► opinions about this controller.

00:20:42 ◼   ► I think it's pretty good.

00:20:44 ◼   ► The buttons are fine, the D-pad is fine, the analog sticks are a little too concave in

00:20:52 ◼   ► the middle for my tastes they kind of they dip in way too much so they're not

00:20:58 ◼   ► great to hold on to but the triggers are also really good that it weights pretty

00:21:02 ◼   ► well and it gives you just another way to control the UI right the d-pad

00:21:05 ◼   ► controls the entire UI of the Apple TV it's better than I expected for some

00:21:11 ◼   ► games and it has improved every game I played with it except for Beat Sports

00:21:16 ◼   ► because Beat Sports is excellent with the remote you played that yet no I

00:21:22 ◼   ► haven't you really need to trust me like if you want a good gaming experience on

00:21:25 ◼   ► this device that is it because it's built for the Apple TV remote where

00:21:29 ◼   ► others haven't been right they've been ported mainly but the controller really

00:21:33 ◼   ► does change the way so many games are played it's better for the four games

00:21:39 ◼   ► like altos adventure way better for crossy road right having a d-pad I can

00:21:44 ◼   ► click makes it just easy to play and I also found a game called evil Knievel

00:21:49 ◼   ► which I had an amazing amount of fun with. You drive is Evil Knievel on motorbikes

00:21:55 ◼   ► and jump things and do loops and I was playing it for hours on the Apple TV very

00:22:01 ◼   ► happily. I also now have it on my iOS devices. It's a really great game except

00:22:04 ◼   ► for one flaw in that it doesn't sync your progress across devices which is

00:22:10 ◼   ► kind of weird because it's a universal app on three different devices but it

00:22:13 ◼   ► doesn't do it doesn't sync your support. You're like you're saved but I mean

00:22:19 ◼   ► it's fine because I enjoy the game enough that I actually don't mind

00:22:23 ◼   ► replaying all the levels but it's a really fun game that works really really

00:22:27 ◼   ► well and when they showed me the Apple TV remote instructions I was like this

00:22:31 ◼   ► would be impossible to play but with the game controller you just use the

00:22:35 ◼   ► shoulder buttons to make him flip left and right and to make him go backwards

00:22:38 ◼   ► and forwards and I thought it was really good so if you are serious about this

00:22:42 ◼   ► like about playing games on the Apple TV I actually think that it is

00:22:46 ◼   ► beneficial for sure to pick up one of the remotes and the Steel Nimbus is the

00:22:52 ◼   ► one that I have I think it's anyone that's currently available that is at

00:22:55 ◼   ► least ordained by Cupertino but it does it does a good enough job I find it and

00:23:02 ◼   ► it does make playing games a lot of games a lot better like also geometry

00:23:07 ◼   ► wars which is a analog stick game it's a two stick game and I I haven't even

00:23:12 ◼   ► tried to play this with the remotes I don't even know how you would do it like

00:23:16 ◼   ► the game has been all about two sticks on multiple platforms for a long time

00:23:20 ◼   ► and it plays really really well with this thing with the Nimbus

00:23:25 ◼   ► controller so I would suggest it but I would also really suggest Evil Can Evil

00:23:30 ◼   ► that is my top tip of this week's episode it is a fun fun game that I

00:23:34 ◼   ► haven't seen much of elsewhere.

00:23:36 ◼   ► Huh interesting yeah I haven't I haven't seen that either but

00:23:40 ◼   ► but with a with a controller.

00:23:42 ◼   ► Yeah or play it on the iOS devices it's really good

00:23:46 ◼   ► on iOS devices. So yeah that's that's kind of where I am with the Apple TV. I

00:23:49 ◼   ► haven't spent too much time with it otherwise and just to play some games

00:23:52 ◼   ► here and there. Like this was funny so yesterday evening me and my girlfriend

00:23:57 ◼   ► were going to watch, we're currently working our way through 30 Rock and

00:24:04 ◼   ► we were laying in bed and I said you know I could just we could just watch

00:24:08 ◼   ► this on the Apple TV because we're at the point now where we have to buy the

00:24:11 ◼   ► seasons from iTunes because only the first three are on Amazon. I was like we

00:24:15 ◼   ► can just watch it on the Apple TV." And she's like "Nah." I'm like "Yeah I know." Like it's

00:24:20 ◼   ► just at the other side of the room but it's like well that's over there and

00:24:23 ◼   ► we've got this we've got the laptop right in front of us like that is our

00:24:26 ◼   ► way right that is just our way. And she said you know to me as I've said before

00:24:30 ◼   ► like when we've got our own place like we all well it's kind of in the way that

00:24:34 ◼   ► we want we'll put the Apple TV on our big TV in the front room and we'd watch

00:24:38 ◼   ► it there but at the moment it just makes a lot of sense for us but it did make me

00:24:41 ◼   ► think about the fact that the iPad Pro, right, is the same size as my Mac Pro, so

00:24:47 ◼   ► maybe that will change in a couple of weeks with the device we're using to watch

00:24:50 ◼   ► this stuff on. Yeah, well the iPad Pro is gonna be a, despite its name, it's going

00:24:57 ◼   ► to be a great TV. Yes. And movie, and movie watcher, and they know it, which is

00:25:02 ◼   ► why they put those four speakers in with the auto-detect, stereo, all of that is

00:25:07 ◼   ► because they, you know, this is the story of Apple, we've talked about it before on

00:25:10 ◼   ► this show, you make up, you got to learn the lesson that people are going to use your product

00:25:14 ◼   ► in all sorts of ways that you didn't intend.

00:25:16 ◼   ► And so that's why the selfie camera is better.

00:25:18 ◼   ► And that's why the iPad camera is better.

00:25:20 ◼   ► Because you know, you might not believe that anyone should take selfies or take pictures

00:25:24 ◼   ► with their iPads, but people are going to do it.

00:25:26 ◼   ► So you might as well give them a good experience.

00:25:29 ◼   ► And this is an example of that where the iPad Pro, no, it's probably not a product that

00:25:34 ◼   ► you should target at watching, you know, movie watchers.

00:25:38 ◼   ► This is a big screen for watching movies, and yet it's going to be really good for that.

00:25:44 ◼   ► And who are we to judge people who buy it just for that?

00:25:47 ◼   ► But also keep in mind that pro users watch movies and TV shows too.

00:25:50 ◼   ► So it makes... and why would you not watch it on that big beautiful screen if you're

00:25:55 ◼   ► not preferring to watch it on a big TV somewhere?

00:25:58 ◼   ► So it'll be interesting to see.

00:26:00 ◼   ► I am laughing at the fact that you have spent... did you get the big or the small Apple TV?

00:26:05 ◼   ► The small.

00:26:06 ◼   ► Okay, so you spent the equivalent of about $200 on this product that you were not interested

00:26:11 ◼   ► in.

00:26:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:13 ◼   ► Okay, because you bought the controller, the $50 controller.

00:26:15 ◼   ► Yeah, well, I mean, because I'm more interested in it for games than TV, though, right?

00:26:20 ◼   ► That's true.

00:26:21 ◼   ► That's always been the way, like, I like to play iOS games at home, so this is a nice

00:26:26 ◼   ► way to play iOS games at home.

00:26:27 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true.

00:26:28 ◼   ► That's a good point.

00:26:29 ◼   ► But I still don't care about it enough.

00:26:30 ◼   ► Like, I've bought this device so I can talk about it on this show, right?

00:26:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:35 ◼   ► I'll be sitting here going,

00:26:36 ◼   ► "Jason, what does the Apple TV do?"

00:26:38 ◼   ► And it just doesn't feel, to me anyway,

00:26:42 ◼   ► considering this is what I do for a living,

00:26:43 ◼   ► that doesn't feel professional enough,

00:26:44 ◼   ► which is why I put the money down on it.

00:26:46 ◼   ► Which is why I'll also be putting

00:26:48 ◼   ► an incredible amount of money down on an iPad Pro,

00:26:50 ◼   ► because I think I want it, but I don't know if I want it.

00:26:53 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:26:53 ◼   ► - And I might return it.

00:26:54 ◼   ► We'll come back to that in a minute actually,

00:26:55 ◼   ► 'cause we finally had the pricing.

00:26:57 ◼   ► But I just wanted to touch on this emoji article

00:26:59 ◼   ► that you wrote.

00:27:00 ◼   ► - Emoji vertical, woo!

00:27:02 ◼   ► - I really like this, 'cause you kind of,

00:27:05 ◼   ► - Indeed, you kind of surfaced a frustration that I had,

00:27:10 ◼   ► but wasn't really 100% sure in how to kind of express it.

00:27:15 ◼   ► So you wrote this piece for Macworld,

00:27:17 ◼   ► and you're basically talking about how great emoji are,

00:27:20 ◼   ► which they are, and all of the new emoji are fantastic.

00:27:23 ◼   ► I love them, I love the little nerd face guy,

00:27:25 ◼   ► because I had previously been using--

00:27:26 ◼   ► - You use them a lot.

00:27:27 ◼   ► - I use it all the time.

00:27:28 ◼   ► I was previously using the sunglasses guy

00:27:31 ◼   ► as a way to represent me,

00:27:33 ◼   ► So I would use the little sunglasses guy

00:27:35 ◼   ► because he wears glasses, but now I have the nerd face guy

00:27:37 ◼   ► and his glasses look like my glasses.

00:27:39 ◼   ► So it's like, that is me, I am nerd face guy.

00:27:42 ◼   ► So I love all the new emoji,

00:27:44 ◼   ► but you have highlighted a problem in this,

00:27:45 ◼   ► is as they have added a ton more,

00:27:48 ◼   ► they are becoming more and more difficult to find

00:27:51 ◼   ► in the Apple list that they have.

00:27:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, and it's a huge number.

00:27:56 ◼   ► It's the 9/1 and 10/11/1 update

00:28:02 ◼   ► added another 184 of these.

00:28:05 ◼   ► It's funny, in Indianapolis, I spent some time

00:28:08 ◼   ► at the release notes conference,

00:28:11 ◼   ► the mingle thing afterward, after dinner,

00:28:14 ◼   ► talking to Jeremy from Emojipedia.

00:28:16 ◼   ► And that was cool because he knows everything about emojis.

00:28:21 ◼   ► - You could say his knowledge is almost encyclopedic, right?

00:28:26 ◼   ► - Encyclopedic, yes, 184 new symbols.

00:28:30 ◼   ► And Apple is the first company to have this cover

00:28:32 ◼   ► the whole Unicode standard for emoji, which is cool.

00:28:35 ◼   ► And it's not as simple as you'd think.

00:28:37 ◼   ► I mentioned this in the article, and I find it fascinating,

00:28:40 ◼   ► even if nobody else may, which is emoji,

00:28:43 ◼   ► we mentioned on the show, so Upgradients know all about it.

00:28:46 ◼   ► Emoji fragmentation, the idea that there is no art

00:28:50 ◼   ► that is given to somebody to support emoji.

00:28:53 ◼   ► It doesn't work that way.

00:28:54 ◼   ► So platform owners and website developers

00:28:58 ◼   ► basically need to make their own emoji

00:29:00 ◼   ► or rely on the platform of the users,

00:29:04 ◼   ► but it'll come down to the platform user.

00:29:06 ◼   ► There's no, like Unicode,

00:29:07 ◼   ► the Unicode consortium doesn't have a budget

00:29:10 ◼   ► and go out to an artist

00:29:12 ◼   ► and have an artist come up with the official emoji

00:29:15 ◼   ► and then give that away to everybody.

00:29:16 ◼   ► None of that happens.

00:29:17 ◼   ► In fact, my understanding is that

00:29:20 ◼   ► that Emojipedia will sometimes help

00:29:23 ◼   ► because Emojipedia likes to mock up

00:29:25 ◼   ► potential future emoji.

00:29:26 ◼   ► I think that since Jeremy from Emojipedia is on the Unicode emoji subcommittee, which

00:29:32 ◼   ► is a great thing to say, the emoji subcommittee, bureaucracy crossed with emojis, what could

00:29:37 ◼   ► go wrong?

00:29:39 ◼   ► And I think they actually, he's helping them out by having Emojipedia do some mock-ups

00:29:46 ◼   ► because I think the Unicode consortium has no ability to do that.

00:29:49 ◼   ► They have like little silhouettes of what the emoji are supposed to be, but basically

00:29:53 ◼   ► it's incumbent on Apple and Google and Microsoft and Facebook and Twitter and anyone else who

00:29:58 ◼   ► wants to do it for their custom for their websites to build this stuff. And so it's

00:30:04 ◼   ► a lot of work and Apple has been dedicated. They are paying a designer to come up with

00:30:09 ◼   ► this consistent emoji design across iOS and OS X, which is really great. But there are

00:30:16 ◼   ► so many of them, and this was what my article was about, that on Mac you can bring up, I

00:30:22 ◼   ► I think it's control, command, space.

00:30:25 ◼   ► You can bring up a little floating emoji palette.

00:30:28 ◼   ► And it's got, and if you scroll up, it's got a search box

00:30:30 ◼   ► and you can put in smile

00:30:32 ◼   ► and it'll bring up things that have smile in the name.

00:30:34 ◼   ► And if you put in Germany,

00:30:36 ◼   ► I believe it will show you the German flag

00:30:39 ◼   ► and you can click on it so that you insert a German flag

00:30:42 ◼   ► when you intend to and not a Belgian flag, which I did once.

00:30:45 ◼   ► And this is what started this whole story

00:30:47 ◼   ► because I was sleepy.

00:30:48 ◼   ► And I realized that on iOS, you can't search for emoji.

00:30:52 ◼   ► You've got all 184 new ones and the total number

00:30:56 ◼   ► is some ridiculous number of how many?

00:30:59 ◼   ► Sixteen, twenty total emoji characters possible?

00:31:04 ◼   ► And you can't search for them on iOS.

00:31:05 ◼   ► So I think, you know, yes,

00:31:07 ◼   ► this is not an earth-shaking subject, it's a fun subject,

00:31:10 ◼   ► but emoji are fun and they're easy to type sometimes

00:31:15 ◼   ► and it would be nice if Apple,

00:31:18 ◼   ► which has been so supportive of the display of them,

00:31:22 ◼   ► maybe took a look at better ways to choose them

00:31:27 ◼   ► because on iOS especially, it's kind of hard.

00:31:31 ◼   ► You get to the flag segment and literally

00:31:32 ◼   ► they are alphabetized by their country code.

00:31:35 ◼   ► And you end up playing this game where you're like,

00:31:37 ◼   ► let's see if there's a flag near the flag that I want

00:31:40 ◼   ► that I recognize.

00:31:42 ◼   ► And then from there, maybe I can orient

00:31:44 ◼   ► and find out if it's alphabetically before or after that.

00:31:47 ◼   ► And you have to know the country codes

00:31:48 ◼   ► because if you're looking for the German flag,

00:31:50 ◼   ► you have to know that that's DE.

00:31:52 ◼   ► It's yeah, it could be better.

00:31:55 ◼   ► And on the Mac, you know, the Mac one is okay,

00:31:57 ◼   ► I ended up using Launch Bar,

00:31:59 ◼   ► although there are other sort of text expansion utilities

00:32:02 ◼   ► that offer this, but I use Launch Bar

00:32:04 ◼   ► because Launch Bar has emoji built into it now.

00:32:06 ◼   ► And since I already use Launch Bar,

00:32:09 ◼   ► I can type emoji, you know, tab,

00:32:12 ◼   ► and then the thing I'm looking for and it'll pop it up.

00:32:14 ◼   ► But I feel like the best example of this right now is Slack.

00:32:18 ◼   ► Slack does such a great job with emoji.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Not only do they have a good picker,

00:32:22 ◼   ► but they have a shortcut that searches the emoji dictionary.

00:32:25 ◼   ► So if you type a colon and start typing something

00:32:28 ◼   ► after the colon, it will auto-complete a bunch of options

00:32:32 ◼   ► for other emojis that you could pick.

00:32:34 ◼   ► And my gut feeling is that something like that

00:32:37 ◼   ► might be the way for Apple to do it on iOS,

00:32:39 ◼   ► is a button somewhere,

00:32:40 ◼   ► not just switch to the emoji keyboard and good luck,

00:32:43 ◼   ► but like an emoji button on the regular keyboard,

00:32:46 ◼   ► or I don't know, I'm not a UX designer,

00:32:48 ◼   ► but something that lets you very quickly go,

00:32:50 ◼   ► I want a smiley here and it shows you smileys

00:32:53 ◼   ► and you go to that one,

00:32:54 ◼   ► or I want a flag here and it shows you flags,

00:32:56 ◼   ► or I want the German flag.

00:32:58 ◼   ► I know the code for that and it auto-completes to that.

00:33:00 ◼   ► So I would like that part to be better.

00:33:02 ◼   ► That's what the article's about.

00:33:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's a few things about this.

00:33:06 ◼   ► One, talking about Slack,

00:33:08 ◼   ► never ever would I have imagined

00:33:10 ◼   ► that the emoji reactions feature that they have

00:33:13 ◼   ► would have actually caught on.

00:33:15 ◼   ► I really love using that, which is where you can add an emoji to a line of text.

00:33:20 ◼   ► So somebody says something and you can react by just adding an emoji to it.

00:33:25 ◼   ► We use that a lot, right?

00:33:26 ◼   ► We – yeah.

00:33:27 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:28 ◼   ► I love that.

00:33:29 ◼   ► That was a surprise to me.

00:33:30 ◼   ► I wouldn't have necessarily considered that that would have actually been something that

00:33:33 ◼   ► we continued to use, but it's fun.

00:33:37 ◼   ► I think that – I believe that Apple will help surface the emoji via search or something

00:33:43 ◼   ► on iOS in the future, but the reason they haven't yet is because this has only really

00:33:48 ◼   ► become a problem with 9.1.

00:33:50 ◼   ► Well, it does, it does, it certainly exacerbates the existing problem.

00:33:55 ◼   ► Well they added so many in one time.

00:33:58 ◼   ► Well 9.0 added a lot of them too, right?

00:34:01 ◼   ► So this is, they've actually added a lot of emoji symbols very quickly in the last few

00:34:06 ◼   ► months.

00:34:07 ◼   ► By the way, Jeremy, since he's on the committee, pointed out to me that their goal is I think

00:34:11 ◼   ► to only add about 60, only 60 a year. So this is only going to get worse, although they're

00:34:17 ◼   ► not going to drop 180 at once like happened in 9.1. He says that the spec, they're shooting

00:34:24 ◼   ► for about 60 a year.

00:34:26 ◼   ► Right, okay. Well, we'll see. I mean, I expect that there will be some differences. I mean,

00:34:31 ◼   ► you know, some different tools.

00:34:32 ◼   ► Yeah, it's fun. On the Mac, there are lots of options. And on iOS, we should say, there

00:34:37 ◼   ► are some custom keyboards. Actually, Apple's keyboard for Chinese input, I believe, auto-suggests

00:34:46 ◼   ► emoji. And it may on some other keyboards, but somebody sent me a screenshot. The problem

00:34:50 ◼   ► is you need to know the Chinese characters to get to that point. And there are custom

00:34:56 ◼   ► keyboards that do a better job and have searchable emoji. And there's, in fact, Emojipedia, there's

00:35:03 ◼   ► a link in our notes to this because you put it in there. Emojipedia makes an app that

00:35:06 ◼   ► that I believe just shows you all the flags.

00:35:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, they worked with Quartz, the news agency,

00:35:12 ◼   ► to create an emoji flag search keyboard.

00:35:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, so there's some options out there and they're good.

00:35:21 ◼   ► And like I said, I'm using Launch Bar on the Mac.

00:35:23 ◼   ► You could set up your favorite emoji in TextExpander,

00:35:26 ◼   ► I mean, there's so many different ways you could do it,

00:35:28 ◼   ► but it would be nice.

00:35:30 ◼   ► I think this could be something,

00:35:33 ◼   ► the delight, I'll put it this way,

00:35:34 ◼   ► 'Cause this isn't even, it's the positive show, right?

00:35:38 ◼   ► This isn't even a criticism of where Apple is,

00:35:39 ◼   ► so much as to say, I didn't realize how great it was

00:35:43 ◼   ► to have easy access to emoji until I used Slack more.

00:35:48 ◼   ► And I saw how Slack had said, you know what?

00:35:50 ◼   ► Emoji is kind of part of the parlance

00:35:53 ◼   ► of online conversation.

00:35:55 ◼   ► And if we make it easy for people to use it,

00:35:57 ◼   ► they'll use it more and that'll make

00:35:59 ◼   ► the conversations richer.

00:36:00 ◼   ► And I agree with that.

00:36:01 ◼   ► I feel like that was a smart move on their part.

00:36:04 ◼   ► I think they're right.

00:36:05 ◼   ► As silly as emoji, I heard from somebody this week

00:36:08 ◼   ► who said basically, what are you 12?

00:36:11 ◼   ► No adults should use emoji.

00:36:12 ◼   ► And it's like, well, I disagree.

00:36:15 ◼   ► No adults should use emoticons.

00:36:16 ◼   ► No adults should use LOL.

00:36:19 ◼   ► You know, okay, you can say that.

00:36:21 ◼   ► I will get off your lawn, sir.

00:36:22 ◼   ► But I think it adds to the richness of the conversation

00:36:26 ◼   ► and is fun to boot.

00:36:28 ◼   ► And once I saw how Slack did it,

00:36:31 ◼   ► where I was auto-completing into emoji

00:36:34 ◼   ► and I was starting to think in terms of,

00:36:36 ◼   ► well, if I want the German flag, that's flag DE.

00:36:39 ◼   ► I know what to type to get it.

00:36:41 ◼   ► Once that happened, or is there a snowman?

00:36:46 ◼   ► And you do, you know, colon S-N-O-W and you realize,

00:36:49 ◼   ► oh my God, there's a snowflake and there are two snowmen now.

00:36:52 ◼   ► Oh, it's crazy.

00:36:53 ◼   ► It opened up a lot of thinking

00:36:59 ◼   ► what could be done with emoji input that I hadn't thought of before. And that's my point

00:37:03 ◼   ► here is that having seen that, I look at that and I look at how it currently works on iOS

00:37:09 ◼   ► and even on the Mac, and I think there's an opportunity there, especially on iOS, for

00:37:13 ◼   ► better emoji input, and that would make everybody's online conversations a little more fun. So,

00:37:21 ◼   ► you know, it's an area I think that Apple could add a lot of richness to iOS, especially

00:37:28 ◼   ► if they if they put a little more emphasis on emoji input. It's silly. It is silly. It

00:37:34 ◼   ► is not going to change the world but but Myke you know you have to admit I mean in the slack

00:37:39 ◼   ► channel that we share and in the other slack channels that I'm into the emoji are like

00:37:44 ◼   ► part of the they make everything funnier and better and and I think I think richer.

00:37:50 ◼   ► >>I agree.

00:37:51 ◼   ► >>Whether it's whether it's just in the conversations or those emoji reactions which are also hilarious.

00:37:55 ◼   ► Merlin Mann does not agree, so if you would like to hear Merlin's view on this, listen

00:38:00 ◼   ► to episode 13 of Reconcilable Differences.

00:38:03 ◼   ► Of which whilst I was editing, I was shouting at Logic back at him.

00:38:09 ◼   ► It's a fun episode, especially because John really kind of parades Merlin around in this

00:38:17 ◼   ► episode to make him kind of the worst he can be.

00:38:20 ◼   ► It's a fun one for us to do.

00:38:21 ◼   ► I should also mention when talking about Slack

00:38:24 ◼   ► that another feature that I like 11 Slack

00:38:26 ◼   ► that is not applicable to this conversation,

00:38:29 ◼   ► but I wanna mention it is Slack is also great

00:38:31 ◼   ► because they let you make your own emoji.

00:38:33 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:38:34 ◼   ► - And that makes that also fills me with delight.

00:38:37 ◼   ► We have a, in the incomparable chat room,

00:38:38 ◼   ► we have a Skeletor emoji.

00:38:40 ◼   ► It is fantastic.

00:38:43 ◼   ► And you know, it's fun stuff.

00:38:45 ◼   ► It's no different than expressing yourself with,

00:38:49 ◼   ► like I said, emoticons or animated GIFs

00:38:51 ◼   ► or acronyms or any other kind of nerd code speak that's been going on since the beginning

00:38:57 ◼   ► of the internet. This is just, it's pretty visual and fun and I like it.

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00:40:30 ◼   ► So we found out today as we are recording, which is Monday the 9th of November 2015,

00:40:37 ◼   ► the iPad Pro will go on sale on Wednesday the 11th.

00:40:42 ◼   ► - Wednesday, yes.

00:40:43 ◼   ► - Online and there will be stock in stores later this week.

00:40:47 ◼   ► So right there probably-- - Later this week.

00:40:49 ◼   ► I love that.

00:40:50 ◼   ► That's like, might be Thursday, probably not.

00:40:51 ◼   ► Might be Friday, probably.

00:40:53 ◼   ► Some places if you don't get a Friday,

00:40:54 ◼   ► Saturday is still part of the week.

00:40:56 ◼   ► - I expect it's like,

00:40:57 ◼   ► 'cause it's just depending on the store, right?

00:40:59 ◼   ► I bet some stores will have them on Wednesday.

00:41:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, if I had to bet,

00:41:03 ◼   ► I would say they'll have them Friday.

00:41:05 ◼   ► and then some of them will get them Saturday.

00:41:08 ◼   ► If I had to guess, that would be my guess,

00:41:10 ◼   ► that they won't, that there'll be a gap there.

00:41:12 ◼   ► But you're right, it could be.

00:41:14 ◼   ► It could be that when they open sales on Wednesday,

00:41:16 ◼   ► they're already in some stores, entirely possible.

00:41:19 ◼   ► - So I will be logging on on Wednesday

00:41:23 ◼   ► to see if I can try and maybe reserve one

00:41:25 ◼   ► for an in-store pickup,

00:41:26 ◼   ► because that's what I like to do these days.

00:41:29 ◼   ► I hate waiting at home for these things.

00:41:30 ◼   ► Otherwise, I'll just be popping down to a store

00:41:32 ◼   ► later on in the week.

00:41:33 ◼   ► I finally, as of today, have the pricing information

00:41:38 ◼   ► that I've been waiting for.

00:41:39 ◼   ► This is the first time that any pricing

00:41:42 ◼   ► has been released outside of the US.

00:41:45 ◼   ► So I will be able to get the 32 gigabyte model

00:41:50 ◼   ► for 679 pounds, that is Wi-Fi,

00:41:54 ◼   ► and it goes up to 899 for the Wi-Fi and cellular 128 gig.

00:41:59 ◼   ► Doesn't have the pricing for the 128 Wi-Fi,

00:42:02 ◼   ► But I can assume that that will probably be in the 700 pound range.

00:42:06 ◼   ► It's whatever they usually add on for the cellular version, I would imagine.

00:42:10 ◼   ► In the US, it's always whatever it is.

00:42:13 ◼   ► Good point.

00:42:14 ◼   ► So I can just see what that amount is and just reduce it from the 879, from the 899

00:42:19 ◼   ► figure.

00:42:20 ◼   ► So it's probably around 750, 760, something like that.

00:42:23 ◼   ► The Apple Pencil will be available for £79 and the Smart Keyboard available in charcoal

00:42:29 ◼   ► grey for £139. It's gonna be an expensive week again. Well, so what did you say? The

00:42:39 ◼   ► base model is £679? Mm-hmm. Wow. You are really getting it in the wallet there. That's

00:42:48 ◼   ► a thousand dollars US. This is the usual pricing. For the £799 model. So that's two hundred

00:42:57 ◼   ► 26 equivalent dollars more than it is in the US. That's what the VAT would do to

00:43:05 ◼   ► you. Wow. If you remember all of our sales tax is included in the price right?

00:43:10 ◼   ► Oh well that's true. That's worth remembering. That's true because then

00:43:15 ◼   ► then I will have to add it in but but $7.99 is is is $5.29. Yeah. And and you're

00:43:22 ◼   ► paying a lot more than that. I have some friends who are visiting London they've

00:43:25 ◼   ► been there this last week, I think they're going home soon, but one of them said, had

00:43:29 ◼   ► a tweet who they said, "London is great, let's live here," looks at rental prices.

00:43:36 ◼   ► Well, got to go back to work, back home in Canada, because yeah, things can be expensive

00:43:43 ◼   ► there.

00:43:44 ◼   ► But although you're right, you've got inclusive tax in the prices where we have the hidden

00:43:49 ◼   ► secret surprise taxes that just appear, yay.

00:43:52 ◼   ► So even though the products are more expensive here anyway, at least the tax is included

00:43:57 ◼   ► which means we don't have like sticker shock at the checkout.

00:44:00 ◼   ► Well also Apple is, and this has come up on past shows and I wrote about it at Six Colors

00:44:05 ◼   ► too, Apple is also I think anticipating a strong dollar continuing and they want to

00:44:11 ◼   ► have the stronger the dollar gets the smaller their margins get so I think that's part of

00:44:17 ◼   ► it too is that they're pricing based on what they think the currency markets are going

00:44:22 ◼   ► gonna do but still that's uh yeah that's pricey you're gonna you're gonna be

00:44:26 ◼   ► spending a lot of money on are you gonna get the 32 are you gonna get the 128 or

00:44:30 ◼   ► you're gonna go with 128 cellular I'm gonna have to go 128 because if I think

00:44:34 ◼   ► I'm seriously gonna use this device 32 is ludicrous all right I will probably

00:44:40 ◼   ► go Wi-Fi because I just tether you know I'm fine doing that with my current

00:44:49 ◼   ► iPad. I always have my iPhone with me. I can just tether. So that's

00:44:53 ◼   ► probably what I'll do. But I'll also be going in for the pencil and

00:44:58 ◼   ► the keyboard because I want the full experience. So there's been

00:45:03 ◼   ► some stuff today, some press today like Eddy Cue did a kind of half-hearted demo

00:45:08 ◼   ► to CNN Money which there's just been a few little bits and bobs flying around

00:45:14 ◼   ► today. It looks like the executives are in full PR force right now because I saw

00:45:20 ◼   ► like Tim Cook is somewhere in London doing something and I think he was

00:45:24 ◼   ► presenting to someone from the press as well today. So they're doing what

00:45:28 ◼   ► seems to be the usual now for a product launch right? They're making themselves

00:45:31 ◼   ► very visible around this period of time. So I wanted to just bring this up

00:45:36 ◼   ► because it's a little bit of news but I wanted to kind of talk a little bit

00:45:39 ◼   ► about the iPad and how we're both using them now because me and you both are

00:45:44 ◼   ► upgraded to the Air 2 after WWDC right because we have to take advantage of all the iOS 9

00:45:49 ◼   ► iPad related features. So are you still continuing to use the Air 2 if you switch back to the

00:45:55 ◼   ► Mini like where are you currently on this spectrum? I am using the Air 2. I haven't

00:46:03 ◼   ► gone back to the Mini. I still have my Mini 2 is still in a drawer and because I don't

00:46:09 ◼   ► know I keep feeling like I'm going to go back and look at it and and consider it again.

00:46:13 ◼   ► I'm actually working on a story that will probably not be out for a couple of weeks,

00:46:16 ◼   ► which is sort of like a survey of all the iPad models for Macworld.

00:46:21 ◼   ► They do this every year and now as a freelancer it's nice when they're like, "Hey, we'll pay

00:46:24 ◼   ► you to do this story that you used to write for free in your spare time when you worked

00:46:29 ◼   ► here."

00:46:30 ◼   ► So I'm thinking about this a lot.

00:46:32 ◼   ► The Air 2, or the Mini 2…

00:46:34 ◼   ► When you say a survey, what does that mean?

00:46:36 ◼   ► Oh, just like an overview.

00:46:39 ◼   ► I'm going to write about every single available iPad and basically say sort of like which

00:46:42 ◼   ► one is right for which person. Okay like a buyer's guide. It is a buyer's guide, exactly.

00:46:49 ◼   ► So the mini, my mini 2, I love it when I pick it up I think oh it's so light and small and

00:46:55 ◼   ► great but as I you know as I discovered in the last year I'm really feeling the fact

00:47:04 ◼   ► that I am on the precipice of needing reading glasses at 45 years old and I fought it as

00:47:11 ◼   ► as long as I could.

00:47:12 ◼   ► - You got fought.

00:47:13 ◼   ► - It's gonna, but it's gonna happen.

00:47:15 ◼   ► I mean, I've got the long because I'm nearsighted.

00:47:18 ◼   ► So I've got the, I've been wearing glasses since I was 18,

00:47:21 ◼   ► but now I'm gonna have to do that.

00:47:25 ◼   ► And the iPad Air 2 just has as many pixels as the mini does,

00:47:30 ◼   ► but they're bigger and spread out over a larger distance.

00:47:35 ◼   ► And when you're getting old and your eyes are going bad,

00:47:39 ◼   ► it's nicer for it to be bigger.

00:47:41 ◼   ► And I read, I do things like read comics on it.

00:47:43 ◼   ► And I don't, so I'm fully kind of committed to the Air 2

00:47:48 ◼   ► as much as I like the size of the Mini.

00:47:49 ◼   ► And every time I pick it up, I think, oh, you're so nice.

00:47:52 ◼   ► I just, I think the Air 2 is that big screen.

00:47:57 ◼   ► And it is more powerful than the Mini 2,

00:48:00 ◼   ► certainly let alone the Mini 4 that's out now.

00:48:03 ◼   ► That one is more powerful,

00:48:05 ◼   ► but it's still not as powerful as the Air 2,

00:48:07 ◼   ► is my understanding.

00:48:08 ◼   ► So, you know, it's, I love the Mini, it's really cool,

00:48:13 ◼   ► and I would use it if, and love it,

00:48:16 ◼   ► if I didn't have the Air 2,

00:48:17 ◼   ► but the Air 2 is just that much more, you know, bigger.

00:48:21 ◼   ► It's all about the screen size.

00:48:22 ◼   ► - So, are you finding yourself in a situation

00:48:28 ◼   ► where you're taking advantage of the multitasking features

00:48:31 ◼   ► and stuff like that?

00:48:32 ◼   ► Do you find them, like, do you use them seriously,

00:48:34 ◼   ► or do you use them as like a novel thing?

00:48:37 ◼   ► - Well, the way I use my iPad,

00:48:39 ◼   ► the multitasking features don't get used very much.

00:48:42 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:48:42 ◼   ► - I have those moments.

00:48:44 ◼   ► One of the ways you fight,

00:48:46 ◼   ► especially when you're writing,

00:48:49 ◼   ► 'cause doing podcast stuff you kind of need equipment for,

00:48:52 ◼   ► but when you're writing,

00:48:54 ◼   ► one of the ways you fight that kind of sluggish time

00:48:57 ◼   ► when you fight the TDM of like,

00:49:00 ◼   ► you're staring at the cursor

00:49:01 ◼   ► and you know you need to write something,

00:49:02 ◼   ► and I'm not gonna call it writer's block

00:49:04 ◼   ► 'cause I think writer's block is not a thing.

00:49:05 ◼   ► I think there's lots of different things

00:49:07 ◼   ► that make you not be able to write

00:49:08 ◼   ► that get rolled up into writer's block

00:49:09 ◼   ► and it becomes this legend.

00:49:11 ◼   ► But it's more like you're just staring at the screen

00:49:12 ◼   ► and like, I need to change what I'm doing here.

00:49:16 ◼   ► Sometimes I will take, like in the summer,

00:49:17 ◼   ► I'll take my laptop and I'll sit outside

00:49:20 ◼   ► and I'll try to write outside

00:49:21 ◼   ► because staring at the screen in the office isn't working.

00:49:23 ◼   ► Let's try to change the location.

00:49:25 ◼   ► And sometimes I'll do that with the iPad,

00:49:26 ◼   ► either on the keyboard or I'll get out the Bluetooth keyboard

00:49:30 ◼   ► and I'll go set it up at the dining room table

00:49:32 ◼   ► and try that as a different kind of experience.

00:49:36 ◼   ► and sometimes the iPad is a very nice focused experience.

00:49:39 ◼   ► But most of the ways that I use the iPad day to day

00:49:43 ◼   ► are not that, you know,

00:49:44 ◼   ► and so I don't use the multitasking features very much.

00:49:46 ◼   ► I don't even use slide over.

00:49:48 ◼   ► I think I forget that slide over exists

00:49:50 ◼   ► until I'm trying to go forward in Safari

00:49:54 ◼   ► and I use that gesture to go forward

00:49:55 ◼   ► that doesn't do that anymore

00:49:56 ◼   ► because it's the slide over gesture

00:49:58 ◼   ► and I need to press the forward button instead.

00:50:00 ◼   ► So I don't use it that much.

00:50:03 ◼   ► Mostly what I'm using is,

00:50:06 ◼   ► Ideally, when I leave the office at the end of the day,

00:50:09 ◼   ► or if I'm taking a lunch break or whatever,

00:50:12 ◼   ► I have a big iMac here, it doesn't come with me.

00:50:14 ◼   ► I have a laptop, but it just stays docked behind me

00:50:17 ◼   ► most of the time.

00:50:19 ◼   ► The iPad is what I'm using in the house.

00:50:23 ◼   ► That's my thing, my connection to the internet

00:50:25 ◼   ► is that iPad.

00:50:27 ◼   ► That's how I use it.

00:50:28 ◼   ► - You mean when you're not in the office?

00:50:30 ◼   ► - When I'm not in the office.

00:50:31 ◼   ► When I'm in the rest of the house.

00:50:34 ◼   ► That's how I'm using it.

00:50:35 ◼   ► And so for me, you know, there are moments where I'm like,

00:50:39 ◼   ► oh, I should split screen this and use it.

00:50:42 ◼   ► But most of the time I don't,

00:50:43 ◼   ► 'cause most of the time it's, especially on that screen,

00:50:45 ◼   ► this is something I'm looking forward

00:50:46 ◼   ► to trying in the iPad Pro.

00:50:48 ◼   ► Even on the Air 2 screen, you know,

00:50:51 ◼   ► a split view with two apps, it feels a little crowded.

00:50:54 ◼   ► It feels a little cramped.

00:50:56 ◼   ► I could put Slack on one side and Twitter on the other

00:50:59 ◼   ► or something like that, and I have done that,

00:51:01 ◼   ► but it feels kind of cramped

00:51:04 ◼   ► and it's actually easier just to have both of them open

00:51:06 ◼   ► and just swipe between them.

00:51:08 ◼   ► So I usually just do that.

00:51:10 ◼   ► So, you know, I'm not using those features a lot,

00:51:12 ◼   ► but I do use my iPad all the time.

00:51:14 ◼   ► And I love it because it is fulfilling

00:51:17 ◼   ► the space that a laptop used to take in my life,

00:51:22 ◼   ► where I would have a laptop on the dining,

00:51:24 ◼   ► or in the like the living room, like the coffee table,

00:51:27 ◼   ► just so that I could flip it open

00:51:28 ◼   ► and look at something on the internet.

00:51:30 ◼   ► And it's nice to not have to worry about that.

00:51:32 ◼   ► and the iPad does that instead.

00:51:35 ◼   ► - No, I definitely use the split view stuff all the time.

00:51:38 ◼   ► I love it.

00:51:39 ◼   ► It's the thing that makes the iPad

00:51:41 ◼   ► a useful tool for me again, because--

00:51:42 ◼   ► - So what are you pairing?

00:51:43 ◼   ► What are you splitting?

00:51:45 ◼   ► - So quite a lot of the time,

00:51:48 ◼   ► I might be doing something

00:51:50 ◼   ► and then maybe an email will come in or something like that

00:51:53 ◼   ► and I will slide over Outlook and take a look at it.

00:51:58 ◼   ► I may then turn it into a multi-pane view to look at something in Chrome and bring it

00:52:06 ◼   ► in.

00:52:07 ◼   ► Say for example somebody wants to buy some sponsorships, I can bring up our sponsorship

00:52:11 ◼   ► calendar in Chrome and take a look at it there and compare to see what's available and then

00:52:16 ◼   ► I can go flick back over and look into, well I can just tap into Outlook on the right side

00:52:22 ◼   ► or whatever and reply to it.

00:52:24 ◼   ► If I'm on Twitter, if I'm in Tweetbot, I usually will have something like Slack Open as well,

00:52:29 ◼   ► just because they kind of just go together for me, because they're both just kind of

00:52:32 ◼   ► like goofing off type stuff.

00:52:37 ◼   ► There are still some apps that need Split View support for me, like the Google Drive

00:52:41 ◼   ► apps, and when I have those as well, it will go to a whole other level, where I'll be combining

00:52:48 ◼   ► Notes and Google Drive to do show preparation.

00:52:51 ◼   ► currently do that but I'm like flicking over into the multitasking view and

00:52:55 ◼   ► going back or I'm using notes in slide over and then I go back into drive and

00:52:59 ◼   ► then I slide over notes again and go back into drive. So I see only for me a

00:53:05 ◼   ► continuation of my use of this feature as time goes on in all honesty.

00:53:11 ◼   ► I feel like it is after having used it for a while now I feel like the next

00:53:17 ◼   ► logical step for it is a little less maintenance if that makes sense like one

00:53:22 ◼   ► of the problems I have with it is it doesn't always do what I what I kind of

00:53:28 ◼   ► I've realized I want it to do and again as a first iteration I think it's fine

00:53:33 ◼   ► but you know obviously there are things like the list of multitasking available

00:53:37 ◼   ► apps that that you you see in the slide over is not sustainable with a large

00:53:43 ◼   ► number of apps on your device. That is an elegant view. Yeah, and then the other

00:53:47 ◼   ► thing I would say is I kind of want and how you make this work with gestures and

00:53:53 ◼   ► have it be something that regular users can understand I don't know but I find

00:53:57 ◼   ► myself wanting pairs of apps to live together and so... I feel the same, yeah, so

00:54:03 ◼   ► I press one icon and have two apps launch. Yeah, like if it knows that when I

00:54:07 ◼   ► have a Tweetbot or Twitterrific open I want Slack to be with it or when I have

00:54:11 ◼   ► Slack open, I want a Twitter client to be with it, whatever my choice is, that when

00:54:16 ◼   ► I'm in the home screen and I tap on Slack, that it open in the split view with the app

00:54:22 ◼   ► that goes with it.

00:54:23 ◼   ► But if I have some other app, I have Safari open, it knows that, well, Safari is open

00:54:29 ◼   ► with Notes.

00:54:31 ◼   ► And so I will open Safari with Notes.

00:54:33 ◼   ► And right now it doesn't do that.

00:54:35 ◼   ► It sort of like you set the sidebar item, whether it's slide over or split view, that

00:54:40 ◼   ► the right hand side item, and that's the app that opens

00:54:43 ◼   ► with whatever app you open.

00:54:46 ◼   ► And again, makes sense for a first crack at it,

00:54:49 ◼   ► but I find myself wanting context there.

00:54:51 ◼   ► I find myself wanting these apps to know who their buddy is

00:54:55 ◼   ► and bring the buddy along.

00:54:56 ◼   ► Come on, buddy.

00:54:57 ◼   ► It's time for us to open up.

00:54:58 ◼   ► Both the apps are gonna open up

00:54:59 ◼   ► and that doesn't happen right now.

00:55:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that would be nice.

00:55:03 ◼   ► I think that is, you know,

00:55:06 ◼   ► I would love to see an app like Workflow

00:55:08 ◼   ► have the ability to do something like that, right?

00:55:10 ◼   ► Like you create a custom icon that you hit

00:55:12 ◼   ► and it opens the two apps together.

00:55:14 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, that'd be nice.

00:55:15 ◼   ► - But it can't, right?

00:55:16 ◼   ► There's no way it could do that right now.

00:55:17 ◼   ► - No, it's gonna have to be a system thing.

00:55:21 ◼   ► The other thing I would say is,

00:55:23 ◼   ► with the work that Apple's done on proactive stuff

00:55:26 ◼   ► in iOS 9, especially, I think you see that on the iPhone,

00:55:30 ◼   ► I would love to see a proactive list of suggestions

00:55:37 ◼   ► of apps for the sidebar, right?

00:55:40 ◼   ► So it could actually make a good guess

00:55:43 ◼   ► about what app you probably want to load.

00:55:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, as opposed to just time-based.

00:55:47 ◼   ► Be like, oh, well, when you have this open,

00:55:49 ◼   ► you usually want this open.

00:55:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, and have it be,

00:55:53 ◼   ► even if it doesn't select it for you automatically

00:55:55 ◼   ► to have it be a suggestion at the very top,

00:55:57 ◼   ► because those can work pretty well.

00:55:58 ◼   ► I'm shocked when I switch to the proactive view and go,

00:56:01 ◼   ► oh, there it is, that's the app I wanted.

00:56:04 ◼   ► It doesn't always happen,

00:56:05 ◼   ► but it happens more than I thought it would.

00:56:07 ◼   ► So, you know, these are other directions,

00:56:10 ◼   ► but for me, that I think it actually does limit my use

00:56:14 ◼   ► of Split View because I feel like once I'm in Split View,

00:56:17 ◼   ► I'm also committing that I have to do maintenance

00:56:19 ◼   ► on Split View, I need to, then I load another app later

00:56:22 ◼   ► and I'm like, oh, I still had Split View,

00:56:23 ◼   ► I've got to close that out,

00:56:24 ◼   ► or I need to change apps or something like that.

00:56:26 ◼   ► And I'd like it to be, I'd like it to just be less work.

00:56:30 ◼   ► I'd like it to sort of, again,

00:56:32 ◼   ► how you do this is an open question

00:56:34 ◼   ► and what encumbrance you add on top

00:56:36 ◼   ► to get this stuff to be set up that way,

00:56:37 ◼   ► I think is an open question.

00:56:39 ◼   ► And it's a challenge for whoever is designing

00:56:42 ◼   ► that feature at Apple.

00:56:42 ◼   ► But wouldn't it be nice if I know that this app,

00:56:46 ◼   ► I always wanna open full screen,

00:56:47 ◼   ► but this app, I always wanna open

00:56:49 ◼   ► with this other app next to it.

00:56:51 ◼   ► That would be cool.

00:56:52 ◼   ► - Let's see how the, or if the iPad Pro will change

00:56:55 ◼   ► your opinion at least on the split view, right?

00:56:58 ◼   ► The more real estate may help that.

00:57:00 ◼   ► - Just more room.

00:57:01 ◼   ► Oh, that's gonna be, more room will be huge.

00:57:03 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:57:04 ◼   ► - So we'll see, I'm becoming more and more excited

00:57:07 ◼   ► about the thought of it,

00:57:08 ◼   ► just because of how much I'm using the Air,

00:57:11 ◼   ► but I don't know how I would feel about the bigger device,

00:57:14 ◼   ► right, the added weight, the added size,

00:57:16 ◼   ► like all of those things,

00:57:17 ◼   ► all of the unanswered questions that make me consider

00:57:21 ◼   ► how good the potential functionality could be

00:57:24 ◼   ► when compared to the adding on

00:57:27 ◼   ► of the rest of the device, right?

00:57:29 ◼   ► - Well, I can't wait.

00:57:30 ◼   ► I mean, not only will we be able to get them this week,

00:57:32 ◼   ► but presumably there's a whole set of embargo reviewers

00:57:36 ◼   ► out there who are getting ready to drop

00:57:37 ◼   ► their reviews this week.

00:57:38 ◼   ► So there'll be a lot to read,

00:57:40 ◼   ► there'll be lots of things to order and spend money on,

00:57:42 ◼   ► and then there'll be products.

00:57:43 ◼   ► So it's an exciting week.

00:57:44 ◼   ► It's iPad, I think I did a post on Six Colors today

00:57:47 ◼   ► that was basically, "Hey, it's iPad Pro week."

00:57:49 ◼   ► It turns out, Apple released a press release that says,

00:57:51 ◼   ► "iPad Pro, this is the week we are excited about it."

00:57:55 ◼   ► So hopefully next week will be the week

00:57:56 ◼   ► where we get to talk about it on upgrade.

00:57:58 ◼   ► That should be a lot of fun.

00:58:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is relentless, right?

00:58:03 ◼   ► - This is the last one, I think,

00:58:05 ◼   ► but it has been quite a,

00:58:07 ◼   ► the fallout from that September 9th event,

00:58:09 ◼   ► which is we've got a lot of products to show you

00:58:11 ◼   ► and then we're gonna be dropping them

00:58:12 ◼   ► over the course of the next two months,

00:58:14 ◼   ► 'cause it's two months today since that event.

00:58:17 ◼   ► It's been busy, they've been busy,

00:58:21 ◼   ► and so we've all been busy, and it's good.

00:58:24 ◼   ► But I feel like this is probably the last one

00:58:26 ◼   ► until next year.

00:58:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's nothing else, right?

00:58:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's nothing else from that event.

00:58:31 ◼   ► - Nothing promised, no.

00:58:33 ◼   ► I mean, they could call me up next week and say,

00:58:37 ◼   ► "Hey, we got something new, come on down and visit us."

00:58:39 ◼   ► But I think it's unlikely.

00:58:41 ◼   ► - I hope so.

00:58:41 ◼   ► - I think they've got some Christmas shopping to do

00:58:43 ◼   ► and they're done.

00:58:45 ◼   ► - This has been like a season

00:58:47 ◼   ► that I don't think there's ever been before,

00:58:49 ◼   ► like product release-wise.

00:58:50 ◼   ► - Actually, okay, so I think it's the most,

00:58:53 ◼   ► that's the most we've seen in a while.

00:58:55 ◼   ► But there was a year, and I can't remember what year it was.

00:58:58 ◼   ► And my colleagues at Macworld will back me up on this

00:59:01 ◼   ► from back in the day.

00:59:02 ◼   ► There was a year where the first, the Tuesday,

00:59:07 ◼   ► every Tuesday there was an Apple product announcement

00:59:11 ◼   ► for like 12 straight weeks, 15 straight weeks.

00:59:15 ◼   ► Some of them were minor, some of them were major,

00:59:18 ◼   ► but there was something.

00:59:19 ◼   ► There would be like an iLife rollout

00:59:20 ◼   ► and then there'd be a new iPod

00:59:22 ◼   ► and then there'd be a new laptop

00:59:23 ◼   ► and then there'd be an update to Final Cut Pro.

00:59:27 ◼   ► And there was, there was, and I talked to Apple PR

00:59:29 ◼   ► at the time about it, and they're like, yep, well,

00:59:31 ◼   ► this is, somebody obviously said,

00:59:33 ◼   ► what if we were just in the news forever?

00:59:34 ◼   ► And everything we did, we just dripped it out

00:59:36 ◼   ► one at a time.

00:59:37 ◼   ► And that was exhausting.

00:59:39 ◼   ► It was a lot of fun.

00:59:40 ◼   ► And when you're doing a monthly magazine,

00:59:42 ◼   ► I have always said to the people at Apple,

00:59:44 ◼   ► at Apple PR, when I was at Macworld,

00:59:46 ◼   ► I would always say to them, you know,

00:59:48 ◼   ► one really awesome looking new Apple product

00:59:50 ◼   ► every month works for us.

00:59:53 ◼   ► It's like, that is great.

00:59:55 ◼   ► 'cause there's nothing better than putting a new Apple product

00:59:58 ◼   ► on the cover of a computer magazine.

00:59:59 ◼   ► It was always the best thing you could do.

01:00:02 ◼   ► So they did that for a while, and then there was one Tuesday

01:00:04 ◼   ► where it was like, "No PR?"

01:00:06 ◼   ► And it's like, "Let's call Apple PR, see if they're okay."

01:00:08 ◼   ► And they're like, "Yeah, that, it's done, it's over."

01:00:11 ◼   ► But they did it.

01:00:12 ◼   ► This is the biggest one I can remember since then

01:00:14 ◼   ► where there's been a real march of products over time.

01:00:17 ◼   ► But they did do that kind of masochistic

01:00:19 ◼   ► product rollout one time, where it was like three months

01:00:21 ◼   ► where there was something new every week.

01:00:23 ◼   ► It was crazy.

01:00:25 ◼   ► I would really love it if you could follow up on what that time was and what the products

01:00:31 ◼   ► were.

01:00:32 ◼   ► I'll look into it.

01:00:33 ◼   ► I'll look at the Apple PR archive.

01:00:34 ◼   ► I would really like to know that now.

01:00:35 ◼   ► But it was a crazy time.

01:00:37 ◼   ► We could maybe go back in time, right?

01:00:39 ◼   ► And we could do each one.

01:00:41 ◼   ► Little historical upgrade.

01:00:42 ◼   ► Yeah, that sounds like fun.

01:00:44 ◼   ► Alright, I think it's time for Ask Upgrade.

01:00:46 ◼   ► I think so.

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01:01:36 ◼   ► well, I mean, if you hand it to your letter carrier,

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01:02:41 ◼   ► (imitates laser)

01:02:44 ◼   ► - First question comes from Jimmy.

01:02:46 ◼   ► - For Christmas I need real lasers.

01:02:48 ◼   ► - We can look into that.

01:02:49 ◼   ► - We saw, I'll give you some laser sound effects

01:02:52 ◼   ► Christmas maybe. Jimmy had a question for me this week. Jimmy would like to know

01:02:57 ◼   ► what case I use for my iPhone. So Jimmy let me tell you because Jimmy's just

01:03:04 ◼   ► joined the plus Club the only the only good club to be a part of of course and

01:03:09 ◼   ► #MykeWasRight. And the case that I use is just the Apple silicon case. I'm very happy with

01:03:15 ◼   ► the Apple silicon case it does a good job. It's maybe a little bit bulkier than

01:03:19 ◼   ► I would like at times but I like colors and I like the grip and it has the Apple

01:03:23 ◼   ► logo on it which is nice so I think it does a really good job and it's the case

01:03:29 ◼   ► that I like to use. Nice and simple. All right. Do you use a case? Good for you. I bet you don't, right?

01:03:36 ◼   ► I have the leather, I have the Apple leather case it's the same one that I

01:03:41 ◼   ► had on the 6 that I've just moved over to the 6s and it fits slightly more

01:03:47 ◼   ► snuggly on it but it still fits and I like it because it adds that extra

01:03:51 ◼   ► grippiness to it and so I've gotten used to it it's the first case that I have

01:03:54 ◼   ► used in an extended way over my entire lifetime of iPhone ownership but I like

01:04:01 ◼   ► it's just the black leather Apple case. Now Vic has a question for you.

01:04:06 ◼   ► Vic wanted to clarify something from last week's episode and Vic asked "Did I

01:04:11 ◼   ► hear correctly that you said that Apple would not intend to support the iOS

01:04:15 ◼   ► remote app on the new Apple TV. That is a quote that you said you were told from

01:04:20 ◼   ► the the mouth of Apple PR to your ears.

01:04:24 ◼   ► Well, from a guy. So what happens at these Apple

01:04:27 ◼   ► events is it's every device that's out there and there are lots of

01:04:32 ◼   ► them that's being demoed, there's an Apple employee with it that's sort of

01:04:35 ◼   ► its minder and those are Apple employees they can't all be Apple PR and marketing

01:04:40 ◼   ► people because they don't have that many of them or maybe it's marketing people

01:04:45 ◼   ► people, but it's not just the Apple PR team.

01:04:47 ◼   ► It's a lot of other Apple employees.

01:04:48 ◼   ► They are often not people you've met before.

01:04:51 ◼   ► You don't know their names.

01:04:52 ◼   ► They don't wear name tags.

01:04:53 ◼   ► They don't identify who they are,

01:04:54 ◼   ► but they've all been trained to say basically

01:04:57 ◼   ► the same things, what to demo, what not to demo,

01:04:59 ◼   ► what not, what to allow you to do,

01:05:01 ◼   ► what to not allow you to do.

01:05:03 ◼   ► It's all pretty well-trained.

01:05:04 ◼   ► And my story is that when I asked him about the remote app,

01:05:07 ◼   ► this guy who I didn't, I don't think I knew,

01:05:10 ◼   ► if I'm recalling correctly, said that they weren't,

01:05:14 ◼   ► I expected him to be non-committal about the remote app.

01:05:16 ◼   ► And he said, when I said, you know,

01:05:18 ◼   ► are you going to be able to use the remote app?

01:05:20 ◼   ► The answer was no.

01:05:20 ◼   ► And I was like, well, that's weird.

01:05:22 ◼   ► And interestingly specific.

01:05:24 ◼   ► And I just filed it away

01:05:25 ◼   ► and didn't really think about it much more

01:05:27 ◼   ► until the Apple TV shipped and it wasn't there.

01:05:30 ◼   ► So I, that's a, they pronounce it from some guy

01:05:35 ◼   ► who is an Apple person who was trained.

01:05:37 ◼   ► It could very easily have been a misstatement.

01:05:39 ◼   ► The fact is that remote app hasn't been updated.

01:05:42 ◼   ► It doesn't mean that there isn't a new Apple TV app coming

01:05:45 ◼   ► that is more fully functional than that remote app,

01:05:48 ◼   ► which is, if I'm being honest, kind of showing its years.

01:05:51 ◼   ► It was built to control iTunes on a Mac,

01:05:53 ◼   ► basically, a long time ago.

01:05:55 ◼   ► And it's, you know,

01:05:58 ◼   ► they could probably build something new that's better,

01:06:01 ◼   ► or they could retrofit it if they wanted to,

01:06:03 ◼   ► but it wouldn't shock me if there was just an Apple TV app

01:06:05 ◼   ► that came out at some point.

01:06:06 ◼   ► I'm surprised that it's not out now,

01:06:08 ◼   ► and that there isn't a way to more easily input

01:06:12 ◼   ► things like text and maybe even use to emulate

01:06:15 ◼   ► the Apple remote on the Apple TV.

01:06:19 ◼   ► Also the Apple TV only supports one Apple remote right now,

01:06:22 ◼   ► which I wonder about for game reasons and things like that.

01:06:26 ◼   ► Maybe there's a software reason why it's not doing it yet.

01:06:28 ◼   ► So there may be software updates

01:06:29 ◼   ► for the Apple TV to come as well.

01:06:31 ◼   ► But certainly it would be nice to have the ability

01:06:35 ◼   ► to remote control that Apple TV from an iOS device.

01:06:38 ◼   ► I can't believe that there isn't something in the works,

01:06:41 ◼   ► but the person told me no, flatly, when I asked,

01:06:46 ◼   ► and that has been borne out in the sense that

01:06:49 ◼   ► we're a week out with this product now,

01:06:50 ◼   ► and that app hasn't been updated since April.

01:06:53 ◼   ► - Pascal has shared a wish,

01:06:55 ◼   ► kind of from the Apple TV to iOS.

01:06:59 ◼   ► How great it would be for universal search for content

01:07:02 ◼   ► in the same way that you can use the Apple TV.

01:07:05 ◼   ► So for example, "Hey Siri, play this song in Spotify."

01:07:08 ◼   ► Or like, you know, "Hey Siri, play this song,"

01:07:11 ◼   ► and it shows you the available places

01:07:12 ◼   ► that you can grab it from.

01:07:14 ◼   ► Do you think that this is something

01:07:15 ◼   ► that you would be interested in?

01:07:17 ◼   ► I guess Spotlight goes some of the way by indexing content,

01:07:21 ◼   ► but it's a little bit different as like searching

01:07:23 ◼   ► for something that you don't know that you have, right?

01:07:25 ◼   ► And it's showing you, or you can watch it on Netflix

01:07:27 ◼   ► or iTunes or Hulu or...

01:07:29 ◼   ► Would you wanna see that on iOS?

01:07:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, this is all the stuff, I don't know, it's weird, the Siri stuff and the Spotlight

01:07:40 ◼   ► stuff, it's all kind of mixed around, and you would like to see it all kind of intermingle,

01:07:45 ◼   ► right?

01:07:46 ◼   ► I think it would be great to have the books, I mean, apps can contribute to Spotlight on

01:07:55 ◼   ► iOS though, right?

01:07:56 ◼   ► They can do that now, they can contribute to the Index.

01:07:59 ◼   ► I'm not sure whether Spotify is or an app like it is capable of say downloading the

01:08:05 ◼   ► entire Spotify library of strings for all the songs and putting that in spotlight because

01:08:11 ◼   ► it may make there may be limitations on that and it might make your phone explode.

01:08:17 ◼   ► But yeah the more the more of this stuff the better it would be great to be able to ask

01:08:22 ◼   ► Siri about a song or an album and have it say here you know here it is on Apple Music

01:08:27 ◼   ► or you're not logged into Apple Music but Spotify has it or whatever and I think we'll

01:08:31 ◼   ► probably get there.

01:08:34 ◼   ► Next up we have a question from Rob.

01:08:36 ◼   ► What apps are you hoping will come to the Apple TV?

01:08:40 ◼   ► For me I really struggled with this question so I just thought about a couple of the things

01:08:44 ◼   ► that I really like that I kind of wish were there already.

01:08:47 ◼   ► One of them is 3s.

01:08:48 ◼   ► I think 3s would work really really nicely on the Apple TV.

01:08:51 ◼   ► Like the remote, like the touchpad on the remote is kind of built for a game like 3s

01:08:55 ◼   ► really.

01:08:56 ◼   ► And I would also like to see Overcast on the Apple TV as well.

01:09:02 ◼   ► I'm gonna say Overcast, I agree with podcast apps in general.

01:09:06 ◼   ► There's an opportunity there, Apple's podcast app isn't there.

01:09:11 ◼   ► Amazon video.

01:09:12 ◼   ► Yeah, I didn't even think of that one.

01:09:14 ◼   ► I didn't want it there.

01:09:15 ◼   ► I mean, but yeah, of course.

01:09:16 ◼   ► I think I kind of just wrote it off in my brain.

01:09:19 ◼   ► Spotify?

01:09:20 ◼   ► Yep.

01:09:22 ◼   ► There isn't a Spotify app for Apple TV yet, is there?

01:09:24 ◼   ► is Apple Music for my sins. So Jamie uses Spotify, my daughter uses Spotify, and at

01:09:34 ◼   ► her birthday party that would have made it much easier because she's got her

01:09:36 ◼   ► playlist and everything like that. And she insists on using Spotify even

01:09:40 ◼   ► though it's the unpaid Spotify with ads and low quality, even though I

01:09:45 ◼   ► have Apple Music, she has access to Apple Music. I don't understand it, but

01:09:50 ◼   ► There's kids today. What are you gonna do?

01:09:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, they really should. - Get off my lawn.

01:09:54 ◼   ► My lawn is dead. There's no water.

01:09:56 ◼   ► There's no lawn anymore.

01:09:57 ◼   ► So something like status board and other stuff like that

01:10:02 ◼   ► that turns your TV into kind of like an information hub,

01:10:04 ◼   ► I think would be interesting.

01:10:06 ◼   ► I'm not quite sure how you would architect

01:10:09 ◼   ► some of that stuff, but I would like to see it.

01:10:11 ◼   ► You know, their favorite games, you mentioned threes.

01:10:15 ◼   ► I think that's a good example.

01:10:16 ◼   ► Other fun games would be nice to see,

01:10:20 ◼   ► but those are the two that I think of as, you know, something like a podcast

01:10:24 ◼   ► app, something like Status Board from Panic, and yeah, other media stuff

01:10:30 ◼   ► like Amazon and Spotify just to load that up with every media option that

01:10:34 ◼   ► you could possibly imagine.

01:10:36 ◼   ► Tristan has asked, "Any chance of Apple releasing an iPad Air 3

01:10:41 ◼   ► within the next few months?" Tristan says, "I want an iPad Air, but I don't like that

01:10:46 ◼   ► it's last-gen technology."

01:10:48 ◼   ► The last gen technology thing is quite interesting because it's kind of not last gen.

01:10:55 ◼   ► It was always extremely overpowered, the iPad Air 2.

01:10:59 ◼   ► So it's kind of current gen.

01:11:01 ◼   ► Right.

01:11:02 ◼   ► Yeah, well, the shipping of the iPad Pro will mean that the iPad Pro's got a processor that

01:11:08 ◼   ► is much more powerful than what's in the Air 2.

01:11:14 ◼   ► But you're right, the iPad Air 2 was way more powerful than what came before it.

01:11:18 ◼   ► So like, when the iPad Air 3 comes out, there is the potential of an iPad Pro 2, which will

01:11:24 ◼   ► have a faster processor in it again.

01:11:26 ◼   ► Right.

01:11:28 ◼   ► Potentially.

01:11:30 ◼   ► My answer to this question is the chances of Apple releasing an iPad Air 3 in the next

01:11:35 ◼   ► three months are, let's say, what percentage do we want to ascribe to something that is

01:11:42 ◼   ► Highly unlikely, but you never know because Apple continues to do things that are unexpected

01:11:48 ◼   ► that are not in the playbook from the last five years, every now and then.

01:11:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would say 5%.

01:11:54 ◼   ► - It's not impossible, but I think it's highly unlikely that you'll see an iPad Air 3 before,

01:12:00 ◼   ► you know, first week, second week of September next year, it'll get announced.

01:12:05 ◼   ► And we'll do this all again, where that one will get what the iPad Pro has now, and the

01:12:09 ◼   ► iPad mini won't get updated because it got updated last year and we'll just

01:12:12 ◼   ► kind of take this little product cycle and do this for a while. Yeah I'm I still

01:12:17 ◼   ► I do believe now my belief is that the each iPad line will get an update every

01:12:23 ◼   ► two years. Yeah the pro may get updates faster than that because it's brand new

01:12:29 ◼   ► and they want to make up make an impression with it but other than that

01:12:35 ◼   ► that I here's what I would say to Tristan. I when I'm working on this Mac

01:12:39 ◼   ► World story, spoiler alert, I think I'm going to recommend the iPad Air 2

01:12:45 ◼   ► wholeheartedly as the most mainstream "If I need to get an iPad what should I get?"

01:12:50 ◼   ► I have no hesitation to recommend that product even though it's the same

01:12:54 ◼   ► product that they sold last year because it was so far ahead when it was released

01:12:59 ◼   ► and it's still so impressive technically and it doesn't feel like a year-old

01:13:02 ◼   ► product it feels like everybody got this year's product a year early. So

01:13:07 ◼   ► that's what I would say is I think people shouldn't have fear of buying the

01:13:12 ◼   ► iPad Air 2. I don't think it's gonna get replaced in the next few months and it's

01:13:17 ◼   ► still an incredibly impressive piece of hardware. And then finally today we have

01:13:22 ◼   ► a question from Scott who wanted to know what I thought of the iPad Pro keyboard

01:13:27 ◼   ► being US layout only and he links to the UK page and it has a note right at the

01:13:32 ◼   ► very top which says "smart keyboard for iPad Pro is available in US English

01:13:36 ◼   ► keyboard layout" which is disappointing to me because it's not the keyboard that I

01:13:42 ◼   ► use and... Right I know you use that funny keyboard with the pencil... We have the

01:13:49 ◼   ► return key... The return boot... Which is I don't know it's very frustrating I don't

01:13:56 ◼   ► know why Apple is releasing a keyboard in just one configuration especially when

01:14:03 ◼   ► they know they're doing it because they own up to it it just seems like a

01:14:07 ◼   ► peculiar choice to make I'll try it anyway I think I could probably get used

01:14:14 ◼   ► to it but I'm not overjoyed at the fact that it will feel weird to me to type on

01:14:20 ◼   ► this other than the fact that it just looks like a weird keyboard anyway right

01:14:26 ◼   ► I don't know. Obviously it's complicated enough to make it that they are only

01:14:33 ◼   ► currently making it one localization. I imagine that's the reason for it is not

01:14:38 ◼   ► that they don't like other people but that they just don't have the

01:14:41 ◼   ► wherewithal to make it in multiple configurations. They should have just chosen the UK layout

01:14:47 ◼   ► because it's superior anyway. Oh I see. That's the one they should have chosen

01:14:51 ◼   ► rather than the US one I think. It's the way they should have gone. It's a shame.

01:14:55 ◼   ► They missed out. If you'd like to find the show notes for this week's episode head on over to relay.fm/upgrades/62

01:15:02 ◼   ► If you want to find me and Jason online, there's a few places you can do that

01:15:05 ◼   ► We're both on Twitter. Jason is @jsnell

01:15:08 ◼   ► And I am @imike

01:15:11 ◼   ► And you can read all of Jason's lovely work over at sixcolors.com

01:15:15 ◼   ► Which is where you'll find original pieces and it's also a hub for everything else that Jason does on the internet

01:15:21 ◼   ► Thanks again to our lovely sponsors this week great people over at Casper stamps calm and Linda calm and we'll be back next time

01:15:29 ◼   ► Hopefully with iPad pros in our hands until then. Yeah, say goodbye to snow. Goodbye everybody

01:15:35 ◼   ► Ready?

01:15:35 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:15:39 ◼   ► [Music]