00:00:05 ◼ ► model spread ship division time for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/5">TS</a>]
00:00:08 ◼ ► fall most famous words and racing galaxy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/8">TS</a>]
00:00:13 ◼ ► Scouts start your engines at five words [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/13">TS</a>]
00:00:21 ◼ ► incomparable calm / radio or search [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/21">TS</a>]
00:00:27 ◼ ► incomparable number 264 September 2015 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/27">TS</a>]
00:00:37 ◼ ► uncountable i'm your host Jason Steele [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/37">TS</a>]
00:00:38 ◼ ► we like to talk about books on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/38">TS</a>]
00:00:40 ◼ ► podcast and we like to talk about nerdy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/40">TS</a>]
00:00:42 ◼ ► things on this podcast we're going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/42">TS</a>]
00:00:44 ◼ ► we also like sometimes talk about all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/44">TS</a>]
00:00:47 ◼ ► together in a bowl and spin them around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/47">TS</a>]
00:00:48 ◼ ► what you're going to get his old nerdy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/48">TS</a>]
00:00:50 ◼ ► books about technology from the earlier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/50">TS</a>]
00:00:53 ◼ ► days of technology this is a really a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/53">TS</a>]
00:00:55 ◼ ► very clever idea for a topic that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/55">TS</a>]
00:00:57 ◼ ► brought to us by Lisa Schmeisser herself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/57">TS</a>]
00:01:01 ◼ ► hi Lisa hi it's a pleasure to be here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/61">TS</a>]
00:01:03 ◼ ► yes well youyou called it and we made it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/63">TS</a>]
00:01:07 ◼ ► so we're going to hear you're here we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/67">TS</a>]
00:01:12 ◼ ► hackers micro surfs the Cuckoo's egg and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/72">TS</a>]
00:01:17 ◼ ► these are books from an era where we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/77">TS</a>]
00:01:19 ◼ ► were all just sort of figuring out about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/79">TS</a>]
00:01:21 ◼ ► technology and books were some fictional [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/81">TS</a>]
00:01:23 ◼ ► some non-fictional bringing to us this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/83">TS</a>]
00:01:26 ◼ ► crazy new world of computers and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/86">TS</a>]
00:01:28 ◼ ► internet and some of them are actually I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/88">TS</a>]
00:01:31 ◼ ► think all of them are quite fascinating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/91">TS</a>]
00:01:33 ◼ ► and some of them are probably worth your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/93">TS</a>]
00:01:34 ◼ ► time even today joining me and Lisa to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/94">TS</a>]
00:01:37 ◼ ► talk about these nerdy books are some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/97">TS</a>]
00:01:40 ◼ ► nerdy people i'm going to say look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/100">TS</a>]
00:01:47 ◼ ► I i will cop to being some deeper some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/107">TS</a>]
00:01:51 ◼ ► Monty Ashley also out their employee of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/111">TS</a>]
00:01:54 ◼ ► a large technology company but who's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/114">TS</a>]
00:01:55 ◼ ► counting contractor for a large checks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/115">TS</a>]
00:01:58 ◼ ► are companies do all right you wouldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/118">TS</a>]
00:02:00 ◼ ► be a nerd if you did in fact my contract [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/120">TS</a>]
00:02:02 ◼ ► contractor actually that says it all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/122">TS</a>]
00:02:04 ◼ ► doesn't it that yes that is his nineties [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/124">TS</a>]
00:02:06 ◼ ► it's not his tech industry is possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/126">TS</a>]
00:02:09 ◼ ► today's and I you know I know that this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/129">TS</a>]
00:02:13 ◼ ► person knew Jeff bezos's mailman's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/133">TS</a>]
00:02:16 ◼ ► brother it's cool and Fleischmann excuse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/136">TS</a>]
00:02:18 ◼ ► me its basis is jeff basis mailman's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/138">TS</a>]
00:02:23 ◼ ► brother I'm not mentioned in any of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/143">TS</a>]
00:02:27 ◼ ► covering tonight but you were your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/147">TS</a>]
00:02:29 ◼ ► you've been present we've got some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/149">TS</a>]
00:02:33 ◼ ► technology sphere here which is kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/153">TS</a>]
00:02:37 ◼ ► fascinating to sew with somewhere where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/157">TS</a>]
00:02:39 ◼ ► should we start I will admit that I i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/159">TS</a>]
00:02:41 ◼ ► re-read one of these or are skimmed one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/161">TS</a>]
00:02:45 ◼ ► of these and haven't read the other two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/165">TS</a>]
00:02:48 ◼ ► start by said the reason I wanted to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/168">TS</a>]
00:02:50 ◼ ► is likely as wasn't even sure the reason [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/170">TS</a>]
00:02:54 ◼ ► microservice was published 20 years ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/174">TS</a>]
00:02:56 ◼ ► this July and it was kind of perhaps I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/176">TS</a>]
00:03:00 ◼ ► overstating the cultural impact but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/180">TS</a>]
00:03:02 ◼ ► was kind of like a postcard from the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/182">TS</a>]
00:03:05 ◼ ► future or rather the future that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/185">TS</a>]
00:03:07 ◼ ► being shaped up and down the west coast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/187">TS</a>]
00:03:09 ◼ ► and little tech enclaves all over the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/189">TS</a>]
00:03:10 ◼ ► place and what I can remember is over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/190">TS</a>]
00:03:14 ◼ ► the year or two after was published [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/194">TS</a>]
00:03:15 ◼ ► everywhere in the world wide web someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/195">TS</a>]
00:03:17 ◼ ► was saying i want to live in a nerd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/197">TS</a>]
00:03:18 ◼ ► house like they have a micro service or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/198">TS</a>]
00:03:19 ◼ ► they worse or they were saying identify [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/199">TS</a>]
00:03:21 ◼ ► with sunset from microservice alright [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/201">TS</a>]
00:03:23 ◼ ► actually what was on a date one time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/203">TS</a>]
00:03:24 ◼ ► with someone who's like what are your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/204">TS</a>]
00:03:25 ◼ ► five jeopardy categories and I was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/205">TS</a>]
00:03:27 ◼ ► did you get that from microservices like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/207">TS</a>]
00:03:31 ◼ ► oh so it was um one of those minor works [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/211">TS</a>]
00:03:37 ◼ ► of a cultural cannon in the nineteen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/217">TS</a>]
00:03:38 ◼ ► nineties and then I got to thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/218">TS</a>]
00:03:39 ◼ ► about what are the other books that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/219">TS</a>]
00:03:42 ◼ ► knew that got passed around like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/222">TS</a>]
00:03:44 ◼ ► engineering departments of startups or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/224">TS</a>]
00:03:46 ◼ ► maybe they're percolated through through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/226">TS</a>]
00:03:48 ◼ ► offices throughout South the market and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/228">TS</a>]
00:03:50 ◼ ► once they came up with things like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/230">TS</a>]
00:03:52 ◼ ► Cuckoo's egg by clifford stole hackers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/232">TS</a>]
00:03:54 ◼ ► by steven levy a friend of mine who is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/234">TS</a>]
00:03:58 ◼ ► PhD in electrical engineering said the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/238">TS</a>]
00:04:00 ◼ ► one that he considers to be the vertex [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/240">TS</a>]
00:04:02 ◼ ► of them all is Tracy Kidder's the soul [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/242">TS</a>]
00:04:06 ◼ ► of a new machine and so I thought it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/246">TS</a>]
00:04:08 ◼ ► would be kind of fun to talk about like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/248">TS</a>]
00:04:10 ◼ ► the tech cultural the textbook canada [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/250">TS</a>]
00:04:13 ◼ ► literature that may have shaped people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/253">TS</a>]
00:04:15 ◼ ► who worked on level one point out and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/255">TS</a>]
00:04:21 ◼ ► actually pretty handy to read because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/261">TS</a>]
00:04:23 ◼ ► they were either really pressure or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/263">TS</a>]
00:04:25 ◼ ► they're great historical record for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/265">TS</a>]
00:04:28 ◼ ► alright thank God I think that's good i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/268">TS</a>]
00:04:30 ◼ ► I'll tell you and in rereading the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/270">TS</a>]
00:04:33 ◼ ► ok which I always I always liked I that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/273">TS</a>]
00:04:36 ◼ ► took me back to to that era I have lots [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/276">TS</a>]
00:04:41 ◼ ► of opinions about it but I don't know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/281">TS</a>]
00:04:43 ◼ ► microservices the place to start here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/283">TS</a>]
00:04:46 ◼ ► Lisa since that was here inspired all of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/286">TS</a>]
00:04:51 ◼ ► I'mI'm intellects for even roll here not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/291">TS</a>]
00:04:54 ◼ ► seen it not read it so I'm going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/294">TS</a>]
00:04:55 ◼ ► leave it to you all to discuss this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/295">TS</a>]
00:04:59 ◼ ► douglas coupland right well yeah this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/299">TS</a>]
00:05:01 ◼ ► so do you want basically like a brief [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/301">TS</a>]
00:05:03 ◼ ► this is what the book is about why I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/303">TS</a>]
00:05:04 ◼ ► remember that would be a great place [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/304">TS</a>]
00:05:06 ◼ ► alright so in a nutshell the book is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/306">TS</a>]
00:05:09 ◼ ► about a group of Microsoft employees who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/309">TS</a>]
00:05:12 ◼ ► spend who are you know energetic and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/312">TS</a>]
00:05:16 ◼ ► engaged and passionate about their work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/316">TS</a>]
00:05:18 ◼ ► but not particularly ambitious and not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/318">TS</a>]
00:05:20 ◼ ► particularly self-aware and over the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/320">TS</a>]
00:05:23 ◼ ► Microsoft they called us together to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/323">TS</a>]
00:05:25 ◼ ► work in a start-up and it is about them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/325">TS</a>]
00:05:28 ◼ ► turning into they'll become real boys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/328">TS</a>]
00:05:31 ◼ ► that's basically the whole Locker the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/331">TS</a>]
00:05:32 ◼ ► book is its young adults learn how you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/332">TS</a>]
00:05:35 ◼ ► can also learn who they are and what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/335">TS</a>]
00:05:37 ◼ ► makes it such an uncanny artifact of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/337">TS</a>]
00:05:42 ◼ ► Copeland spends a lot of the book trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/342">TS</a>]
00:05:44 ◼ ► to meditate the boundaries between your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/344">TS</a>]
00:05:47 ◼ ► offline life versus your virtual your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/347">TS</a>]
00:05:50 ◼ ► online life because there's a subplot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/350">TS</a>]
00:05:51 ◼ ► that involves two of the women who work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/351">TS</a>]
00:05:54 ◼ ► in the company putting together an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/354">TS</a>]
00:05:55 ◼ ► online coding coding group called chicks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/355">TS</a>]
00:05:57 ◼ ► to raise the profile of girls in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/357">TS</a>]
00:05:59 ◼ ► tech industry and the book is actually a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/359">TS</a>]
00:06:03 ◼ ► series of journal entries that the lead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/363">TS</a>]
00:06:06 ◼ ► guide the building protagonist makes on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/366">TS</a>]
00:06:07 ◼ ► on his computer the whole time he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/367">TS</a>]
00:06:10 ◼ ► under the spell of a genius who seems to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/370">TS</a>]
00:06:12 ◼ ► be more comfortable interfacing with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/372">TS</a>]
00:06:14 ◼ ► computers than with people and another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/374">TS</a>]
00:06:16 ◼ ► thing Copeland does he punctuates each [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/376">TS</a>]
00:06:18 ◼ ► chapter of the list of seemingly random [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/378">TS</a>]
00:06:20 ◼ ► words and he also has the conceit where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/380">TS</a>]
00:06:22 ◼ ► he introduces advice but I saying here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/382">TS</a>]
00:06:24 ◼ ► or there jeopardy cafeteria the Jeopardy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/384">TS</a>]
00:06:26 ◼ ► category is that define them and when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/386">TS</a>]
00:06:28 ◼ ► he's also doing is trying to make a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/388">TS</a>]
00:06:29 ◼ ► point about how culture influences [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/389">TS</a>]
00:06:33 ◼ ► difficult it can be to figure out who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/393">TS</a>]
00:06:35 ◼ ► you are if you hide in technology have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/395">TS</a>]
00:06:36 ◼ ► to kind of flip it around and make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/396">TS</a>]
00:06:38 ◼ ► something that works for you not vice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/398">TS</a>]
00:06:39 ◼ ► versa other so so with that said about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/399">TS</a>]
00:06:43 ◼ ► their hands throughout their head has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/403">TS</a>]
00:06:44 ◼ ► comments about Microsoft's because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/404">TS</a>]
00:06:46 ◼ ► don't is everybody else either either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/406">TS</a>]
00:06:49 ◼ ► iraq to blend in a little extra candy 10 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/409">TS</a>]
00:06:52 ◼ ► that's funny because it was well here's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/412">TS</a>]
00:06:54 ◼ ► the thing well here's my comment is I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/414">TS</a>]
00:06:55 ◼ ► moved to Seattle in 1993 and it was no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/415">TS</a>]
00:06:59 ◼ ► thought of as a bit of a Boeing town [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/419">TS</a>]
00:07:01 ◼ ► and and Boeing was the big engineering [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/421">TS</a>]
00:07:03 ◼ ► culture and there are no books that have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/423">TS</a>]
00:07:06 ◼ ► consciousness about bowing as a company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/426">TS</a>]
00:07:08 ◼ ► there are books about a plenty of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/428">TS</a>]
00:07:10 ◼ ► but boeing was full of engineers are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/430">TS</a>]
00:07:12 ◼ ► tens of thousands of Engineers you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/432">TS</a>]
00:07:14 ◼ ► civil engineers and and all kinds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/434">TS</a>]
00:07:17 ◼ ► other no idea of the Aeronautics and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/437">TS</a>]
00:07:19 ◼ ► forth and they made huge amounts of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/439">TS</a>]
00:07:21 ◼ ► money to create salaries they sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/441">TS</a>]
00:07:23 ◼ ► set a bit of the Seattle culture and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/443">TS</a>]
00:07:25 ◼ ► then we have the dot-com infection when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/445">TS</a>]
00:07:28 ◼ ► Amazon fact that grew and is expanded to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/448">TS</a>]
00:07:33 ◼ ► Microsoft was there in the middle you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/453">TS</a>]
00:07:34 ◼ ► know there was a local guy another local [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/454">TS</a>]
00:07:38 ◼ ► sojourn in the wilderness and came here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/458">TS</a>]
00:07:39 ◼ ► and found a company and and built it up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/459">TS</a>]
00:07:42 ◼ ► and so when I got here in 93 worse we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/462">TS</a>]
00:07:44 ◼ ► were not only thousands of Microsoft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/464">TS</a>]
00:07:46 ◼ ► employees there's almost a hundred [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/466">TS</a>]
00:07:47 ◼ ► thousand now worldwide but Microsoft's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/467">TS</a>]
00:07:51 ◼ ► kind of hit too close to home I was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/471">TS</a>]
00:07:52 ◼ ► I'm living in this milieu everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/472">TS</a>]
00:07:55 ◼ ► around me is working for microsoft and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/475">TS</a>]
00:07:57 ◼ ► I'm going out in that field so I never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/477">TS</a>]
00:07:59 ◼ ► ever ready because i felt i was in it so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/479">TS</a>]
00:08:01 ◼ ► that's my perspective the book is kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/481">TS</a>]
00:08:03 ◼ ► of notable because it sort of posits [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/483">TS</a>]
00:08:05 ◼ ► that you can not have boundaries between [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/485">TS</a>]
00:08:07 ◼ ► your work life and your social life that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/487">TS</a>]
00:08:09 ◼ ► if you do that you can basically just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/489">TS</a>]
00:08:11 ◼ ► have one seamless sloshy thing where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/491">TS</a>]
00:08:14 ◼ ► fulfilling and so I think it was one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/494">TS</a>]
00:08:17 ◼ ► the building blocks of the myth of you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/497">TS</a>]
00:08:20 ◼ ► know rewarding fulfilling start startup [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/500">TS</a>]
00:08:22 ◼ ► culture and clinical work life balance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/502">TS</a>]
00:08:23 ◼ ► because Copelan essentially spins this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/503">TS</a>]
00:08:26 ◼ ► fairy tale that you can find a job and a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/506">TS</a>]
00:08:29 ◼ ► automatically be your best friend and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/509">TS</a>]
00:08:31 ◼ ► you can find romantic fulfillment that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/511">TS</a>]
00:08:32 ◼ ► way to and I think a lot of people were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/512">TS</a>]
00:08:35 ◼ ► really beguiled by that idea because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/515">TS</a>]
00:08:38 ◼ ► it's so it's like college accepted me I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/518">TS</a>]
00:08:40 ◼ ► get a paycheck i read this book in 1995 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/520">TS</a>]
00:08:44 ◼ ► shortly after I moved to Seattle them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/524">TS</a>]
00:08:47 ◼ ► anymore and right right i'm working at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/527">TS</a>]
00:08:52 ◼ ► Microsoft right now but I've only been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/532">TS</a>]
00:08:55 ◼ ► doing that for about a year but i was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/535">TS</a>]
00:08:57 ◼ ► also working at Microsoft in 1996 or so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/537">TS</a>]
00:09:05 ◼ ► microsoft technical support for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/545">TS</a>]
00:09:07 ◼ ► launch of windows 95 it was part of my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/547">TS</a>]
00:09:10 ◼ ► job to answer the phone and say hi [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/550">TS</a>]
00:09:12 ◼ ► thanks for calling microsoft technical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/552">TS</a>]
00:09:14 ◼ ► and the program do you have a problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/554">TS</a>]
00:09:15 ◼ ► with and then when people told me I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/555">TS</a>]
00:09:17 ◼ ► then tried to rout them to either the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/557">TS</a>]
00:09:18 ◼ ► visual basic engineers or the Microsoft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/558">TS</a>]
00:09:24 ◼ ► people's problems were i gotta say i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/564">TS</a>]
00:09:26 ◼ ► never thought micro serfs felt accurate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/566">TS</a>]
00:09:31 ◼ ► at all like for one thing it describes a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/571">TS</a>]
00:09:36 ◼ ► Macintosh's for everything which is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/576">TS</a>]
00:09:40 ◼ ► my experience but also just the degree [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/580">TS</a>]
00:09:44 ◼ ► to which everybody lives microsoft in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/584">TS</a>]
00:09:50 ◼ ► the book and lives with the people they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/590">TS</a>]
00:09:53 ◼ ► work with ya drastically overstated my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/593">TS</a>]
00:09:56 ◼ ► experience having said that it's super [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/596">TS</a>]
00:10:02 ◼ ► Copeland did a lot of research on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/602">TS</a>]
00:10:05 ◼ ► area clearly because he's talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/605">TS</a>]
00:10:08 ◼ ► the fries over there and like that price [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/608">TS</a>]
00:10:11 ◼ ► is still over there it's awful now or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/611">TS</a>]
00:10:13 ◼ ► there's one line where he says microsoft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/613">TS</a>]
00:10:15 ◼ ► is so huge they have 25 buildings and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/615">TS</a>]
00:10:19 ◼ ► that's 20 years ago now I I work in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/619">TS</a>]
00:10:22 ◼ ► building labeled a because they ran out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/622">TS</a>]
00:10:25 ◼ ► of numbers is my theory it's just I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/625">TS</a>]
00:10:29 ◼ ► basically on the main campus but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/629">TS</a>]
00:10:31 ◼ ► still incredibly huge and you never see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/631">TS</a>]
00:10:33 ◼ ► anything on the other side of the campus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/633">TS</a>]
00:10:39 ◼ ► historical look at the size of Microsoft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/639">TS</a>]
00:10:42 ◼ ► 20 years ago but it's like a recruitment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/642">TS</a>]
00:10:46 ◼ ► pamphlet from back in the day and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/646">TS</a>]
00:10:48 ◼ ► part way through the book they all leave [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/648">TS</a>]
00:10:52 ◼ ► vaguely let down by that because clearly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/652">TS</a>]
00:10:55 ◼ ► coupland doesn't really care about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/655">TS</a>]
00:10:56 ◼ ► microsoft he cares about Silicon Valley [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/656">TS</a>]
00:10:58 ◼ ► nerds need ya to start some up and back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/658">TS</a>]
00:11:01 ◼ ► off then get them down to where he cares [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/661">TS</a>]
00:11:05 ◼ ► personality around bill gates because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/665">TS</a>]
00:11:07 ◼ ► remember he writes the book around the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/667">TS</a>]
00:11:08 ◼ ► time that bill gates got married to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/668">TS</a>]
00:11:09 ◼ ► melinda and there's a lot of fixation on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/669">TS</a>]
00:11:11 ◼ ► that too so that there's a sort of Bill [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/671">TS</a>]
00:11:16 ◼ ► combination of patron saints super [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/676">TS</a>]
00:11:17 ◼ ► villain in their in their minds as well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/677">TS</a>]
00:11:19 ◼ ► which i thought was a a weird choice but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/679">TS</a>]
00:11:27 ◼ ► giant house that looks a bit like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/687">TS</a>]
00:11:30 ◼ ► oh my god really and well I mean he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/690">TS</a>]
00:11:33 ◼ ► super rich me as a house of the future [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/693">TS</a>]
00:11:36 ◼ ► but also i have heard people say I i saw [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/696">TS</a>]
00:11:42 ◼ ► oh wow yeah which is why wouldn't he I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/702">TS</a>]
00:11:45 ◼ ► sure he's got an office here somewhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/705">TS</a>]
00:11:47 ◼ ► let me know i'll say right off the bat I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/707">TS</a>]
00:11:49 ◼ ► am NOT a douglas coupland fan I this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/709">TS</a>]
00:11:53 ◼ ► this is the only douglas coupland book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/713">TS</a>]
00:12:00 ◼ ► description of almost all of his work if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/720">TS</a>]
00:12:02 ◼ ► it uh but for all that when this came [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/722">TS</a>]
00:12:06 ◼ ► out I avoided it like the plague because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/726">TS</a>]
00:12:08 ◼ ► I'm like oh it's copeland and at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/728">TS</a>]
00:12:11 ◼ ► time i guess was 96 I was doing a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/731">TS</a>]
00:12:13 ◼ ► driving trips on consulting things i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/733">TS</a>]
00:12:16 ◼ ► driving around and and I would listen to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/736">TS</a>]
00:12:18 ◼ ► audiobooks in the car was very it was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/738">TS</a>]
00:12:20 ◼ ► nice way to past six hours while driving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/740">TS</a>]
00:12:26 ◼ ► audiobook of this was written by written [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/746">TS</a>]
00:12:29 ◼ ► performed by Matthew Perry and I thought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/749">TS</a>]
00:12:33 ◼ ► okay you know it's a bridged if I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/753">TS</a>]
00:12:37 ◼ ► like it at least Matthew Perry will be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/757">TS</a>]
00:12:39 ◼ ► you know there wasn't anything else at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/759">TS</a>]
00:12:41 ◼ ► the store the really appealed to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/761">TS</a>]
00:12:45 ◼ ► enjoying it so I went and got the book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/765">TS</a>]
00:12:46 ◼ ► so I could get all the bits that i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/766">TS</a>]
00:12:48 ◼ ► missed since it was abridged and yeah i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/768">TS</a>]
00:12:52 ◼ ► mean going back to it now it's like oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/772">TS</a>]
00:12:54 ◼ ► yeah it's actually not very good either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/774">TS</a>]
00:12:56 ◼ ► but I basically liked the setup of it i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/776">TS</a>]
00:13:02 ◼ ► mean at the time i was thinking you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/782">TS</a>]
00:13:04 ◼ ► this would make a really good TV show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/784">TS</a>]
00:13:06 ◼ ► you know the the framework is their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/786">TS</a>]
00:13:09 ◼ ► animated for obvious reasons they got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/789">TS</a>]
00:13:12 ◼ ► Perry to do the the voice so it's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/792">TS</a>]
00:13:16 ◼ ► we should say for those youngsters out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/796">TS</a>]
00:13:19 ◼ ► there who are listening to us old people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/799">TS</a>]
00:13:22 ◼ ► Matthew Perry one of the stars of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/802">TS</a>]
00:13:24 ◼ ► 90s sitcom huge hit sitcom Friends and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/804">TS</a>]
00:13:27 ◼ ► of course the friends were participants [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/807">TS</a>]
00:13:29 ◼ ► in launch promotional video for windows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/809">TS</a>]
00:13:32 ◼ ► 95 so they're soldiers could there be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/812">TS</a>]
00:13:37 ◼ ► respect you of course no Matthew Perry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/817">TS</a>]
00:13:40 ◼ ► Odd Couple to ensure and we know you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/820">TS</a>]
00:13:42 ◼ ► probably know studio 60 on the Sunset [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/822">TS</a>]
00:13:46 ◼ ► there you go go on to think about me mr. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/826">TS</a>]
00:13:52 ◼ ► sunshine you mean mr. Sunshine's which I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/832">TS</a>]
00:13:54 ◼ ► like mr. sunshine and selling shine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/834">TS</a>]
00:13:57 ◼ ► yeah but at ten years later Copeland [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/837">TS</a>]
00:14:01 ◼ ► came out with a book called jpod which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/841">TS</a>]
00:14:06 ◼ ► rewritten except with different you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/846">TS</a>]
00:14:10 ◼ ► different names and a different software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/850">TS</a>]
00:14:12 ◼ ► thing that they're working on but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/852">TS</a>]
00:14:14 ◼ ► pretty much the same thing and it wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/854">TS</a>]
00:14:17 ◼ ► anywhere near as good but they did turn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/857">TS</a>]
00:14:20 ◼ ► that into a TV show which got canceled [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/860">TS</a>]
00:14:22 ◼ ► huh oh no little silicon valley could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/862">TS</a>]
00:14:26 ◼ ► Silicon Valley and halt and catch fire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/866">TS</a>]
00:14:30 ◼ ► Sullivan machine so we can get to that a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/870">TS</a>]
00:14:32 ◼ ► mm no I did like the subplot about all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/872">TS</a>]
00:14:36 ◼ ► the nerds suddenly becoming really into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/876">TS</a>]
00:14:40 ◼ ► oh god that was some funny is it kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/880">TS</a>]
00:14:43 ◼ ► predicted tim ferriss in my opinion and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/883">TS</a>]
00:14:46 ◼ ► body hacking because they spend a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/886">TS</a>]
00:14:48 ◼ ► time on my watch is telling me to stand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/888">TS</a>]
00:14:50 ◼ ► yeah erin and i will say he does a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/890">TS</a>]
00:14:55 ◼ ► I mean he basically this book is in blog [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/895">TS</a>]
00:14:58 ◼ ► format before blog was a word or weblog [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/898">TS</a>]
00:15:01 ◼ ► was a word and and they're working on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/901">TS</a>]
00:15:06 ◼ ► minecraft you know so so it's it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/906">TS</a>]
00:15:10 ◼ ► little predictive just not as productive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/910">TS</a>]
00:15:12 ◼ ► as i think it thinks it is you exactly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/912">TS</a>]
00:15:14 ◼ ► and quit using the Chicago font know gah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/914">TS</a>]
00:15:17 ◼ ► we have you would that will see that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/917">TS</a>]
00:15:19 ◼ ► says nineteen nineties like nothing else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/919">TS</a>]
00:15:21 ◼ ► because when you're on your mac with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/921">TS</a>]
00:15:23 ◼ ► stupid little cow daughter was called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/923">TS</a>]
00:15:26 ◼ ► Thank You dog chow I'm sorry I didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/926">TS</a>]
00:15:28 ◼ ► mean to insult your dog catcher Jason [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/928">TS</a>]
00:15:29 ◼ ► and you know you owe my guard towers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/929">TS</a>]
00:15:31 ◼ ► name is claris park dog park cow but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/931">TS</a>]
00:15:34 ◼ ► he's not my dog you open up like your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/934">TS</a>]
00:15:36 ◼ ► your text document and it was always the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/936">TS</a>]
00:15:38 ◼ ► default plant so even the weather TV [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/938">TS</a>]
00:15:41 ◼ ► faulted to macintosh but being 96 I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/941">TS</a>]
00:15:46 ◼ ► not sure in 1995 that when my university [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/946">TS</a>]
00:15:49 ◼ ► computer lab it sure was one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/949">TS</a>]
00:15:53 ◼ ► things that struck me while reading [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/953">TS</a>]
00:15:55 ◼ ► micro serfs is there's a point where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/955">TS</a>]
00:15:57 ◼ ► they get their own URL and it's 00 p dot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/957">TS</a>]
00:16:01 ◼ ► com and the whole time I'm thinking now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/961">TS</a>]
00:16:03 ◼ ► that's probably more valuable that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/963">TS</a>]
00:16:05 ◼ ► you're ridiculous software product [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/965">TS</a>]
00:16:08 ◼ ► you're working on this episode of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/968">TS</a>]
00:16:11 ◼ ► uncomfortable was brought to you by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/971">TS</a>]
00:16:13 ◼ ► FanDuel this is not a duel between two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/973">TS</a>]
00:16:16 ◼ ► victorian gentleman with tall hats and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/976">TS</a>]
00:16:20 ◼ ► little fans that they normally used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/980">TS</a>]
00:16:22 ◼ ► wave air themselves instead it's fantasy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/982">TS</a>]
00:16:26 ◼ ► sports it is american football season [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/986">TS</a>]
00:16:29 ◼ ► it's also european football season but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/989">TS</a>]
00:16:31 ◼ ► i'm not talking about that right now I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/991">TS</a>]
00:16:32 ◼ ► talking about the NFL talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/992">TS</a>]
00:16:34 ◼ ► fanduel fantasy football its weekly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/994">TS</a>]
00:16:37 ◼ ► fantasy football FanDuel the trusted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/997">TS</a>]
00:16:39 ◼ ► leader in one week fantasy football if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/999">TS</a>]
00:16:41 ◼ ► you haven't signed up for a traditional [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1001">TS</a>]
00:16:42 ◼ ► season-long fantasy football league [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1002">TS</a>]
00:16:45 ◼ ► vandals leagues are week-by-week you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1005">TS</a>]
00:16:50 ◼ ► you pick a bunch of players using a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1010">TS</a>]
00:16:51 ◼ ► salary cap and then you see how well you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1011">TS</a>]
00:16:54 ◼ ► do it's easy to build a team and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1014">TS</a>]
00:16:57 ◼ ► you sit back and watch how your team [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1017">TS</a>]
00:16:58 ◼ ► does across the season i tried this out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1018">TS</a>]
00:17:02 ◼ ► it works really well it's very simple I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1022">TS</a>]
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00:17:05 ◼ ► under a salary cap because you can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1025">TS</a>]
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00:17:46 ◼ ► fa ND uel dot-com sign up today using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1066">TS</a>]
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00:17:50 ◼ ► for sponsoring the incomparable my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1070">TS</a>]
00:17:53 ◼ ► husband covered halt and catch fire for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1073">TS</a>]
00:17:55 ◼ ► previously TV and so that meant that by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1075">TS</a>]
00:17:59 ◼ ► merrill proxy I got to see every episode [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1079">TS</a>]
00:18:02 ◼ ► that's ever been made a halt and catch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1082">TS</a>]
00:18:03 ◼ ► fire and as I I red-soled missed a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1083">TS</a>]
00:18:07 ◼ ► machine after that and I was like well i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1087">TS</a>]
00:18:08 ◼ ► really wish i had flipped the order [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1088">TS</a>]
00:18:09 ◼ ► because once you read soul of a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1089">TS</a>]
00:18:13 ◼ ► machine and it walks you through the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1093">TS</a>]
00:18:15 ◼ ► engineering cultures of the time and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1095">TS</a>]
00:18:17 ◼ ► what the stakes were and the egos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1097">TS</a>]
00:18:19 ◼ ► involved in all of the steps then the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1099">TS</a>]
00:18:21 ◼ ► entire TV series from AMC makes so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1101">TS</a>]
00:18:24 ◼ ► sense why didn't AMC like send out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1104">TS</a>]
00:18:27 ◼ ► copies of the single look read this and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1107">TS</a>]
00:18:29 ◼ ► then watch the TV series i mean only a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1109">TS</a>]
00:18:31 ◼ ► hundred eighty-six thousand you tuned in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1111">TS</a>]
00:18:32 ◼ ► nationwide we could have sent you all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1112">TS</a>]
00:18:34 ◼ ► copies but my friend cliff was right it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1114">TS</a>]
00:18:39 ◼ ► really is kind of the ur-text for for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1119">TS</a>]
00:18:40 ◼ ► the nerd books the nineties because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1120">TS</a>]
00:18:42 ◼ ► it documents I think sort of a cultural [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1122">TS</a>]
00:18:45 ◼ ► shift like and not on am not on my level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1125">TS</a>]
00:18:48 ◼ ► which is actually how Tracy Kidder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1128">TS</a>]
00:18:50 ◼ ► starts the book but it documents in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1130">TS</a>]
00:18:52 ◼ ► sense of this is how people began to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1132">TS</a>]
00:18:54 ◼ ► engage their work and this is what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1134">TS</a>]
00:18:56 ◼ ► stakes were in this is how leaves them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1136">TS</a>]
00:18:57 ◼ ► in the end and that's the thing I find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1137">TS</a>]
00:18:59 ◼ ► interesting about these books in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1139">TS</a>]
00:19:01 ◼ ► nineties is all of the mask in some way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1141">TS</a>]
00:19:04 ◼ ► how is this aggressive use of technology [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1144">TS</a>]
00:19:07 ◼ ► changing the way that we interact with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1147">TS</a>]
00:19:08 ◼ ► our environment and the people that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1148">TS</a>]
00:19:12 ◼ ► interesting things about that book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1152">TS</a>]
00:19:15 ◼ ► in particular is that it really is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1155">TS</a>]
00:19:17 ◼ ► about technology of course right like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1157">TS</a>]
00:19:19 ◼ ► is it's a really good bit of research [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1159">TS</a>]
00:19:21 ◼ ► book but his books are so deeply about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1161">TS</a>]
00:19:23 ◼ ► people and I think I forget all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1163">TS</a>]
00:19:25 ◼ ► technology description there's accurate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1165">TS</a>]
00:19:27 ◼ ► reading some things about that later [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1167">TS</a>]
00:19:29 ◼ ► whether he got the nuance right about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1169">TS</a>]
00:19:30 ◼ ► like the Securities whole thing about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1170">TS</a>]
00:19:33 ◼ ► they're building this like inhale [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1173">TS</a>]
00:19:35 ◼ ► service concentric circles and so forth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1175">TS</a>]
00:19:37 ◼ ► and but you know i think i've read for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1177">TS</a>]
00:19:40 ◼ ► lifesaver for his books or house came [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1180">TS</a>]
00:19:42 ◼ ► after that which is really interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1182">TS</a>]
00:19:43 ◼ ► and hometown which is about town in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1183">TS</a>]
00:19:47 ◼ ► western Massachusetts and I'm just the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1187">TS</a>]
00:19:49 ◼ ► way he dives into people's lives Mike [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1189">TS</a>]
00:19:53 ◼ ► Mike Glennon backstory that happen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1193">TS</a>]
00:19:55 ◼ ► realizes i was reading on let's do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1195">TS</a>]
00:19:57 ◼ ► something came up with Tracy Kidder and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1197">TS</a>]
00:19:59 ◼ ► adjustment West who's the internets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1199">TS</a>]
00:20:00 ◼ ► librarian lips in Vermont very well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1200">TS</a>]
00:20:03 ◼ ► known quantity probably knows her and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1203">TS</a>]
00:20:04 ◼ ► she's live in Seattle and sheeps to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1204">TS</a>]
00:20:06 ◼ ► some reference to Tracy Kidder and like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1206">TS</a>]
00:20:07 ◼ ► had no choice skaters like my dad is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1207">TS</a>]
00:20:10 ◼ ► guy in the book mr. West like always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1210">TS</a>]
00:20:12 ◼ ► liked racing history can be used to come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1212">TS</a>]
00:20:13 ◼ ► in our house and he slept downstairs on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1213">TS</a>]
00:20:15 ◼ ► the couch every weekend walks work on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1215">TS</a>]
00:20:16 ◼ ► the book for years Mike oh how his acts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1216">TS</a>]
00:20:19 ◼ ► of here around and you know he did he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1219">TS</a>]
00:20:21 ◼ ► put this the kind of thing like he put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1221">TS</a>]
00:20:23 ◼ ► the work in to understand people so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1223">TS</a>]
00:20:25 ◼ ► wasn't this like I'm gonna fly in and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1225">TS</a>]
00:20:27 ◼ ► learn a little bit about the industry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1227">TS</a>]
00:20:28 ◼ ► and do some interviews and write a book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1228">TS</a>]
00:20:30 ◼ ► it's like he lived and breathed this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1230">TS</a>]
00:20:32 ◼ ► whole thing and lived with them through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1232">TS</a>]
00:20:34 ◼ ► it so you can tell when someone is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1234">TS</a>]
00:20:37 ◼ ► contemporary with the events like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1237">TS</a>]
00:20:38 ◼ ► there's that book called was a great the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1238">TS</a>]
00:20:40 ◼ ► the great year what's the book about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1240">TS</a>]
00:20:42 ◼ ► big area the big year and I saw the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1242">TS</a>]
00:20:44 ◼ ► movie which I quite like this kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1244">TS</a>]
00:20:46 ◼ ► benign but it's good and I read the book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1246">TS</a>]
00:20:48 ◼ ► and the book made me confused because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1248">TS</a>]
00:20:50 ◼ ► thought to this guy pic right and pick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1250">TS</a>]
00:20:52 ◼ ► the right people to follow and then I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1252">TS</a>]
00:20:55 ◼ ► interviewed everybody like a couple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1255">TS</a>]
00:20:57 ◼ ► years after it happened so it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1257">TS</a>]
00:20:58 ◼ ► reconstruction and you could tell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1258">TS</a>]
00:21:00 ◼ ► something wasn't right it was good it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1260">TS</a>]
00:21:02 ◼ ► wasn't a constructed narrative is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1262">TS</a>]
00:21:03 ◼ ► apparently pretty accurate but soul of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1263">TS</a>]
00:21:06 ◼ ► new machine he drove in there and so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1266">TS</a>]
00:21:08 ◼ ► get this sense of what it's like to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1268">TS</a>]
00:21:09 ◼ ► working you know people in those days i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1269">TS</a>]
00:21:12 ◼ ► don't think people are used to reading [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1272">TS</a>]
00:21:13 ◼ ► books about people working 24 hours at a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1273">TS</a>]
00:21:17 ◼ ► time and no 24-7 didn't mean anything to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1277">TS</a>]
00:21:21 ◼ ► people and so I remember when I read it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1281">TS</a>]
00:21:23 ◼ ► I think first the late eighties maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1283">TS</a>]
00:21:26 ◼ ► just being you know it's a little more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1286">TS</a>]
00:21:28 ◼ ► familiar by then it was sort of more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1288">TS</a>]
00:21:29 ◼ ► familiar with the culture was but I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1289">TS</a>]
00:21:30 ◼ ► but i think it introduce people to what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1290">TS</a>]
00:21:33 ◼ ► I it's funny that you mentioned people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1293">TS</a>]
00:21:36 ◼ ► hadn't read stuff like this before about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1296">TS</a>]
00:21:38 ◼ ► the these sort of things I got the sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1298">TS</a>]
00:21:40 ◼ ► in looking at the books in this group [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1300">TS</a>]
00:21:43 ◼ ► that I looked at that the story we've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1303">TS</a>]
00:21:45 ◼ ► got here in some ways is stories told as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1305">TS</a>]
00:21:50 ◼ ► being kind of crazy and unique like oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1310">TS</a>]
00:21:52 ◼ ► you won't believe what the computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1312">TS</a>]
00:21:54 ◼ ► people are doing that from today's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1314">TS</a>]
00:21:56 ◼ ► perspective you're like well of course [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1316">TS</a>]
00:21:57 ◼ ► they are like to thank you working right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1317">TS</a>]
00:22:00 ◼ ► it's like you won't believe the effort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1320">TS</a>]
00:22:02 ◼ ► these people put into making their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1322">TS</a>]
00:22:03 ◼ ► computers and now it's like what that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1323">TS</a>]
00:22:05 ◼ ► what the computer people do that's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1325">TS</a>]
00:22:07 ◼ ► that's like a network is now and end and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1327">TS</a>]
00:22:10 ◼ ► but then it was novel and now it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1330">TS</a>]
00:22:11 ◼ ► and we get to Cuckoo's egg gets it i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1331">TS</a>]
00:22:14 ◼ ► computer security to ya that it seems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1334">TS</a>]
00:22:17 ◼ ► all strange and different this like it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1337">TS</a>]
00:22:19 ◼ ► the internet let me explain how that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1339">TS</a>]
00:22:20 ◼ ► works but in the end you know from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1340">TS</a>]
00:22:22 ◼ ► perspective of 20 years later it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1342">TS</a>]
00:22:24 ◼ ► it's like yep that's that's that's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1344">TS</a>]
00:22:29 ◼ ► yeah part of the morale of soul of a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1349">TS</a>]
00:22:32 ◼ ► machine is that this guy you didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1352">TS</a>]
00:22:34 ◼ ► think he did anything but he was a great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1354">TS</a>]
00:22:37 ◼ ► man because he motivated everybody to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1357">TS</a>]
00:22:39 ◼ ► work 20 hours a day and give up their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1359">TS</a>]
00:22:41 ◼ ► social life he lied to them if you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1361">TS</a>]
00:22:46 ◼ ► employers in the town that they wouldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1366">TS</a>]
00:22:48 ◼ ► hire them away and we do that now I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1368">TS</a>]
00:22:50 ◼ ► like these guys were really being taken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1370">TS</a>]
00:22:54 ◼ ► yeah no it's not you mentioned just nine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1374">TS</a>]
00:22:57 ◼ ► west glad there's actually a really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1377">TS</a>]
00:23:00 ◼ ► great piece she wrote about all of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1380">TS</a>]
00:23:01 ◼ ► technology traps and pitfalls that she's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1381">TS</a>]
00:23:04 ◼ ► run into since her dad died because he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1384">TS</a>]
00:23:06 ◼ ► had some heat he had some really arcane [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1386">TS</a>]
00:23:09 ◼ ► automated home security systems systems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1389">TS</a>]
00:23:11 ◼ ► that she that she's had to figure out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1391">TS</a>]
00:23:14 ◼ ► how to debug and getting into his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1394">TS</a>]
00:23:16 ◼ ► computers husbands and in dealing with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1396">TS</a>]
00:23:18 ◼ ► his digital ephemera has has been just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1398">TS</a>]
00:23:20 ◼ ► like I rolling Lee mind-bogglingly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1400">TS</a>]
00:23:24 ◼ ► difficult i'll have to dig up the piece [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1404">TS</a>]
00:23:25 ◼ ► because i read it and i thought oh my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1405">TS</a>]
00:23:27 ◼ ► god this is something we're all gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1407">TS</a>]
00:23:28 ◼ ► have to do that thats whats the cross of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1408">TS</a>]
00:23:31 ◼ ► house and sold a new machine she's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1411">TS</a>]
00:23:33 ◼ ► dealing with the soul of a old house [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1413">TS</a>]
00:23:34 ◼ ► yea though I can i briefly mention about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1414">TS</a>]
00:23:37 ◼ ► soul of a new machine there is a living [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1417">TS</a>]
00:23:40 ◼ ► computer museum in Seattle that has one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1420">TS</a>]
00:23:43 ◼ ► of the machines they're building in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1423">TS</a>]
00:23:45 ◼ ► book along with a bunch of other old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1425">TS</a>]
00:23:47 ◼ ► nonsense like all tears and PDP's have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1427">TS</a>]
00:23:52 ◼ ► not going to play with them yet but I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1432">TS</a>]
00:23:53 ◼ ► going to someday i like how you refer to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1433">TS</a>]
00:23:56 ◼ ► that we just talk about this book which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1436">TS</a>]
00:23:58 ◼ ► is basically oh and here's how he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1438">TS</a>]
00:23:59 ◼ ► motivated people to work crazy hours and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1439">TS</a>]
00:24:01 ◼ ► this was their life's work the poor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1441">TS</a>]
00:24:02 ◼ ► blood sweat and tears into and then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1442">TS</a>]
00:24:04 ◼ ► dismiss like another undocumented group [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1444">TS</a>]
00:24:07 ◼ ► of people on their life works out it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1447">TS</a>]
00:24:08 ◼ ► bunch of nonsense that's what is my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1448">TS</a>]
00:24:11 ◼ ► problem with the hungry caterpillar at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1451">TS</a>]
00:24:13 ◼ ► the end of another variable maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1453">TS</a>]
00:24:14 ◼ ► they're mixed up the mixed-up chameleon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1454">TS</a>]
00:24:17 ◼ ► at the end it's like he gets the fly but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1457">TS</a>]
00:24:19 ◼ ► don't you feel the fight feel bad for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1459">TS</a>]
00:24:21 ◼ ► well Lisa you read this book named the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1461">TS</a>]
00:24:24 ◼ ► computer they're working on the focus of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1464">TS</a>]
00:24:26 ◼ ► everybody's lives they didn't they they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1466">TS</a>]
00:24:30 ◼ ► named it the very they redeem at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1470">TS</a>]
00:24:32 ◼ ► very end because it's a the eclipse that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1472">TS</a>]
00:24:37 ◼ ► yes nice to be honest i had never heard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1477">TS</a>]
00:24:40 ◼ ► of it in the wild although in my defense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1480">TS</a>]
00:24:41 ◼ ► like this was all taking place back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1481">TS</a>]
00:24:44 ◼ ► before computers a enter the Schmeisser [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1484">TS</a>]
00:24:49 ◼ ► historically important computer at all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1489">TS</a>]
00:24:51 ◼ ► like salads this book although what did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1491">TS</a>]
00:24:54 ◼ ► really amusing when i first started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1494">TS</a>]
00:24:55 ◼ ► reading it is when i first started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1495">TS</a>]
00:24:59 ◼ ► elementary school my parents had both [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1499">TS</a>]
00:25:00 ◼ ► worked with computers in the sixties and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1500">TS</a>]
00:25:02 ◼ ► seventies and what they had said very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1502">TS</a>]
00:25:04 ◼ ► tall Solomon other computers and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1504">TS</a>]
00:25:06 ◼ ► live in jet rooms because they're just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1506">TS</a>]
00:25:09 ◼ ► processing power and there are many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1509">TS</a>]
00:25:11 ◼ ► computers but the theme is really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1511">TS</a>]
00:25:12 ◼ ► exciting are microcomputers and they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1512">TS</a>]
00:25:14 ◼ ► that very careful gradation of size and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1514">TS</a>]
00:25:17 ◼ ► as i was reading this book I thought to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1517">TS</a>]
00:25:19 ◼ ► myself because I i was reading it on on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1519">TS</a>]
00:25:21 ◼ ► my laptop computer with my phone next to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1521">TS</a>]
00:25:26 ◼ ► what would you call that a nano computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1526">TS</a>]
00:25:28 ◼ ► at this point it's it's impossible you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1528">TS</a>]
00:25:29 ◼ ► know the complete the computers have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1529">TS</a>]
00:25:31 ◼ ► gotten powerful and smaller and but at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1531">TS</a>]
00:25:33 ◼ ► one point this was the the reigning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1533">TS</a>]
00:25:35 ◼ ► paradigm was computer sick up rooms many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1535">TS</a>]
00:25:38 ◼ ► computers maybe not so much and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1538">TS</a>]
00:25:39 ◼ ► microcomputers will sit on people's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1539">TS</a>]
00:25:44 ◼ ► oh I I remember standing at the Air and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1544">TS</a>]
00:25:47 ◼ ► an iphone in my hand and the 13 year old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1547">TS</a>]
00:25:50 ◼ ► who was younger the time looking from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1550">TS</a>]
00:25:52 ◼ ► the iphone to the space capsule into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1552">TS</a>]
00:25:55 ◼ ► iphone into the space capsule little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1555">TS</a>]
00:25:57 ◼ ► plaque that says this is how much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1557">TS</a>]
00:25:58 ◼ ► computing power this before absol had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1558">TS</a>]
00:26:00 ◼ ► and it was less than like a timex [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1560">TS</a>]
00:26:02 ◼ ► sinclair which shito what's in my hand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1562">TS</a>]
00:26:05 ◼ ► is infinitely larger and bigger and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1565">TS</a>]
00:26:09 ◼ ► know and and he blew his mind you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1569">TS</a>]
00:26:11 ◼ ► it's it's it's stunning what you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1571">TS</a>]
00:26:15 ◼ ► about how much casual computing power we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1575">TS</a>]
00:26:16 ◼ ► have at our fingertips you know and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1576">TS</a>]
00:26:20 ◼ ► these books are also really handy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1580">TS</a>]
00:26:21 ◼ ► reminder of how far we have come and how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1581">TS</a>]
00:26:25 ◼ ► fast and what a comparatively short time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1585">TS</a>]
00:26:28 ◼ ► they still seem to load slow that's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1588">TS</a>]
00:26:31 ◼ ► maybe that's their so it doesn't blow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1591">TS</a>]
00:26:33 ◼ ► our minds with your parents actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1593">TS</a>]
00:26:35 ◼ ► remember it took me five minutes to turn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1595">TS</a>]
00:26:38 ◼ ► on this magical box all this computing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1598">TS</a>]
00:26:42 ◼ ► power and we spend it making podcasts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1602">TS</a>]
00:26:44 ◼ ► and quantity George Jetson ashley is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1604">TS</a>]
00:26:48 ◼ ► i push the button twice today Jane have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1608">TS</a>]
00:26:53 ◼ ► you stopped this craziest great thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1613">TS</a>]
00:26:55 ◼ ► yeah I let's talk about hackers and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1615">TS</a>]
00:27:00 ◼ ► leaving and I realized i have fond [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1620">TS</a>]
00:27:02 ◼ ► memories of reading this book on a trip [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1622">TS</a>]
00:27:05 ◼ ► I took to New York when I was in grad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1625">TS</a>]
00:27:07 ◼ ► school so I remember like riding the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1627">TS</a>]
00:27:09 ◼ ► train from out of New York City to white [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1629">TS</a>]
00:27:12 ◼ ► plains and i was reading hackers by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1632">TS</a>]
00:27:13 ◼ ► Steven Levy and i don't know why that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1633">TS</a>]
00:27:15 ◼ ► place is it in 1993 i guess so i hope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1635">TS</a>]
00:27:18 ◼ ► you are reading a dial-up connection a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1638">TS</a>]
00:27:19 ◼ ► prodigy that that would have been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1639">TS</a>]
00:27:21 ◼ ► fitting well yes I might my order for my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1641">TS</a>]
00:27:24 ◼ ► first uh no I just taken delivery of my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1644">TS</a>]
00:27:26 ◼ ► first laptop mind my powerbook once [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1646">TS</a>]
00:27:30 ◼ ► everything i had so i just gotten so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1650">TS</a>]
00:27:34 ◼ ► Steven Levy who now writes for medium i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1654">TS</a>]
00:27:37 ◼ ► guess and a thing for a major i guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1657">TS</a>]
00:27:43 ◼ ► um and then before that worked wired in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1663">TS</a>]
00:27:45 ◼ ► Newsweek and has written many many books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1665">TS</a>]
00:27:49 ◼ ► about technology I think this is his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1669">TS</a>]
00:27:51 ◼ ► first gosh 1984 it was written on ya [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1671">TS</a>]
00:27:56 ◼ ► go it's yeah I read it in grad school as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1676">TS</a>]
00:27:58 ◼ ► part of the course that we did on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1678">TS</a>]
00:28:01 ◼ ► yeah so this this is a this is the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1681">TS</a>]
00:28:04 ◼ ► heroes of the computer revolution and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1684">TS</a>]
00:28:06 ◼ ► is definitely the the old the old days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1686">TS</a>]
00:28:09 ◼ ► the old days of computers & and i have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1689">TS</a>]
00:28:12 ◼ ► to say that that is looking back at it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1692">TS</a>]
00:28:15 ◼ ► it's not as as compelling a story as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1695">TS</a>]
00:28:19 ◼ ► leave his books since have been so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1699">TS</a>]
00:28:22 ◼ ► think he was still getting his feet wet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1702">TS</a>]
00:28:23 ◼ ► as a writer and some and honestly some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1703">TS</a>]
00:28:28 ◼ ► esoteric there's a lot of 14 there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1708">TS</a>]
00:28:31 ◼ ► lot of love for MIT hackers and there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1711">TS</a>]
00:28:33 ◼ ► a lot of richard stallman at mrs. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1713">TS</a>]
00:28:36 ◼ ► America and maybe it was a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1716">TS</a>]
00:28:38 ◼ ► richard stallman it was a Christmas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1718">TS</a>]
00:28:40 ◼ ► story i find it interesting that so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1720">TS</a>]
00:28:43 ◼ ► of some there's so much emphasis on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1723">TS</a>]
00:28:46 ◼ ► Massachusetts nerd corridor in a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1726">TS</a>]
00:28:51 ◼ ► interesting especially when you consider [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1731">TS</a>]
00:28:53 ◼ ► like how much modern computer culture [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1733">TS</a>]
00:28:57 ◼ ► popped up out of the west coast you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1737">TS</a>]
00:28:58 ◼ ► like there's a brief mention of the well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1738">TS</a>]
00:29:01 ◼ ► but elantra remember those are what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1741">TS</a>]
00:29:03 ◼ ► the reason was that mentioned in there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1743">TS</a>]
00:29:05 ◼ ► was a reason with all that was going on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1745">TS</a>]
00:29:07 ◼ ► the been the one they call that the Ring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1747">TS</a>]
00:29:08 ◼ ► Road the route 128 around ya around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1748">TS</a>]
00:29:11 ◼ ► Boston east coast bias thing you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1751">TS</a>]
00:29:13 ◼ ► Stephen Levy's from Massachusetts nobody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1753">TS</a>]
00:29:17 ◼ ► corporation bunch of customers with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1757">TS</a>]
00:29:19 ◼ ► Charlotte that's why i DG was I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1759">TS</a>]
00:29:21 ◼ ► that the ideapad McGovern stuff i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1761">TS</a>]
00:29:23 ◼ ► they they made great headway on the fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1763">TS</a>]
00:29:25 ◼ ► that they were these big computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1765">TS</a>]
00:29:27 ◼ ► companies sixties and seventies with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1767">TS</a>]
00:29:30 ◼ ► mainframes and on all that out in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1770">TS</a>]
00:29:32 ◼ ► massachusetts area by Emerson armonk and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1772">TS</a>]
00:29:35 ◼ ► pepsi and so forth wasn't sea rocks out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1775">TS</a>]
00:29:39 ◼ ► yes Xeroxes in remarks was in armonk I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1779">TS</a>]
00:29:42 ◼ ► upstate New York migrate my grandfather [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1782">TS</a>]
00:29:46 ◼ ► worked for IBM during the war he know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1786">TS</a>]
00:29:49 ◼ ► yeah but yeah I don't remember if it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1789">TS</a>]
00:29:51 ◼ ► wasn't it wasn't like the military [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1791">TS</a>]
00:29:52 ◼ ► economy internal why there was a reason [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1792">TS</a>]
00:29:54 ◼ ► there was a reason that was happening [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1794">TS</a>]
00:29:56 ◼ ► there like my no I'm gonna go to East [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1796">TS</a>]
00:29:58 ◼ ► Coast media bias discuss media bias is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1798">TS</a>]
00:30:01 ◼ ► handy is a handy all just wave your hand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1801">TS</a>]
00:30:03 ◼ ► and say dismissive the East Coast media [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1803">TS</a>]
00:30:08 ◼ ► no this one this was I think interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1808">TS</a>]
00:30:09 ◼ ► about how we think of technology today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1809">TS</a>]
00:30:11 ◼ ► is that in these early days in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1811">TS</a>]
00:30:12 ◼ ► seventies and eighties the the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1812">TS</a>]
00:30:14 ◼ ► balance had not tipped to silicon valley [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1814">TS</a>]
00:30:16 ◼ ► right this one now and i literally tip [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1816">TS</a>]
00:30:19 ◼ ► to software when you think about it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1819">TS</a>]
00:30:20 ◼ ► like renovation yeah well liked in for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1820">TS</a>]
00:30:23 ◼ ► people who haven't read it hackers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1823">TS</a>]
00:30:25 ◼ ► contains the story of the first people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1825">TS</a>]
00:30:27 ◼ ► to actually try to make money selling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1827">TS</a>]
00:30:28 ◼ ► software it turns out to be Bill Gates [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1828">TS</a>]
00:30:30 ◼ ► and Paul Allen yeah so so ladies book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1830">TS</a>]
00:30:34 ◼ ► there's a lot of this kind of stuff that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1834">TS</a>]
00:30:35 ◼ ► is completely foreign even to me i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1835">TS</a>]
00:30:37 ◼ ► i first got access to a VAX system at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1837">TS</a>]
00:30:45 ◼ ► so I'd never sewed this stuff the early [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1845">TS</a>]
00:30:49 ◼ ► sort of seventies early internet early [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1849">TS</a>]
00:30:52 ◼ ► terminals and and all that was complete [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1852">TS</a>]
00:30:56 ◼ ► complete you know its way before my time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1856">TS</a>]
00:30:58 ◼ ► and it sort of fascinating these are the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1858">TS</a>]
00:31:00 ◼ ► people for whom there was no platform to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1860">TS</a>]
00:31:03 ◼ ► they were kind of building the platforms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1863">TS</a>]
00:31:05 ◼ ► and you got and their stories in there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1865">TS</a>]
00:31:06 ◼ ► about the homebrew Computer Club which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1866">TS</a>]
00:31:09 ◼ ► of course famously is a you know Steve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1869">TS</a>]
00:31:11 ◼ ► Wozniak was a part of and they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1871">TS</a>]
00:31:12 ◼ ► building circuit boards and you know i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1872">TS</a>]
00:31:14 ◼ ► would have been a terrible computer nerd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1874">TS</a>]
00:31:16 ◼ ► in the seventies because I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1876">TS</a>]
00:31:17 ◼ ► how to solder thanks and yeah I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1877">TS</a>]
00:31:20 ◼ ► it's really interesting to think about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1880">TS</a>]
00:31:21 ◼ ► the fact that a lot of computing culture [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1881">TS</a>]
00:31:30 ◼ ► controllers yeah there were the two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1890">TS</a>]
00:31:32 ◼ ► kinds of railroad nerves the kinds that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1892">TS</a>]
00:31:34 ◼ ► like the stuff above the table perfect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1894">TS</a>]
00:31:36 ◼ ► little models of trains and trees and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1896">TS</a>]
00:31:39 ◼ ► the guys like this nothing to know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1899">TS</a>]
00:31:41 ◼ ► table where you had to figure out how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1901">TS</a>]
00:31:43 ◼ ► all the intersections woodwork and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1903">TS</a>]
00:31:47 ◼ ► this one you know I wasn't a computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1907">TS</a>]
00:31:52 ◼ ► computer store not far from my house and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1912">TS</a>]
00:31:54 ◼ ► they adopted because I was such a giant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1914">TS</a>]
00:31:55 ◼ ► nerd for a while that's where i got my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1915">TS</a>]
00:31:58 ◼ ► ohio scientific computer from they sold [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1918">TS</a>]
00:31:59 ◼ ► apples and so forth and all the guys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1919">TS</a>]
00:32:01 ◼ ► they were much you know older they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1921">TS</a>]
00:32:03 ◼ ► from there was a teenager their twenties [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1923">TS</a>]
00:32:05 ◼ ► to their you know fifties or sixties and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1925">TS</a>]
00:32:07 ◼ ► there was a lot of hardware stuff a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1927">TS</a>]
00:32:09 ◼ ► number like no one time they're trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1929">TS</a>]
00:32:11 ◼ ► to figure out some this dynamically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1931">TS</a>]
00:32:12 ◼ ► refreshing ran this super cool new thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1932">TS</a>]
00:32:14 ◼ ► there's something wrong with writing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1934">TS</a>]
00:32:16 ◼ ► machine code to try to figure it out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1936">TS</a>]
00:32:18 ◼ ► bit that was broken so it would flip [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1938">TS</a>]
00:32:20 ◼ ► from 0 to 1 it wouldn't be able to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1940">TS</a>]
00:32:22 ◼ ► refresh me at work around like that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1942">TS</a>]
00:32:24 ◼ ► the kind of stuff you were doing in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1944">TS</a>]
00:32:26 ◼ ► 1979-80 that's a kid is like it was it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1946">TS</a>]
00:32:28 ◼ ► was fun yet soldering irons and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1948">TS</a>]
00:32:31 ◼ ► you're working in assembly and things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1951">TS</a>]
00:32:32 ◼ ► like that it's very down to the you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1952">TS</a>]
00:32:34 ◼ ► the metal anytime is the potential for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1954">TS</a>]
00:32:39 ◼ ► yeah burn things yeah computers don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1959">TS</a>]
00:32:41 ◼ ► catch on fire like they used to you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1961">TS</a>]
00:32:43 ◼ ► another really interesting thing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1963">TS</a>]
00:32:45 ◼ ► hackers is the is the software story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1965">TS</a>]
00:32:47 ◼ ► especially at and you know warms my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1967">TS</a>]
00:32:52 ◼ ► sierra on-line one of the first scooter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1972">TS</a>]
00:32:55 ◼ ► gaming and tech companies and Ken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1975">TS</a>]
00:32:57 ◼ ► Roberta Williams from there there read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1977">TS</a>]
00:32:59 ◼ ► out in what coarsegold or or uh where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1979">TS</a>]
00:33:02 ◼ ► it's up in the foothills there's likely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1982">TS</a>]
00:33:04 ◼ ► a couple places that they that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1984">TS</a>]
00:33:05 ◼ ► incorporated near Yosemite not too far [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1985">TS</a>]
00:33:08 ◼ ► from where I grew up and that's where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1988">TS</a>]
00:33:10 ◼ ► see you're online was and I made altima [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1990">TS</a>]
00:33:12 ◼ ► and and a whole bunch of other games [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1992">TS</a>]
00:33:19 ◼ ► california and i think that was leaving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/1999">TS</a>]
00:33:21 ◼ ► trying to get away from the MIT I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2001">TS</a>]
00:33:23 ◼ ► so guess because he could have if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2003">TS</a>]
00:33:25 ◼ ► need a game company he could have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2005">TS</a>]
00:33:26 ◼ ► written about infocomm but then a bunch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2006">TS</a>]
00:33:29 ◼ ► of MIT guys another day another group of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2009">TS</a>]
00:33:32 ◼ ► any guys as MIT guys everywhere huh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2012">TS</a>]
00:33:35 ◼ ► so instead they you know they talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2015">TS</a>]
00:33:36 ◼ ► sierra on-line and and some other stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2016">TS</a>]
00:33:39 ◼ ► like that which was which was fun [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2019">TS</a>]
00:33:41 ◼ ► because I play actually played those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2021">TS</a>]
00:33:42 ◼ ► games and so to see those people trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2022">TS</a>]
00:33:44 ◼ ► to make it and again software in those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2024">TS</a>]
00:33:46 ◼ ► days with problematic just like it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2026">TS</a>]
00:33:47 ◼ ► today piracy was a thing then is a thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2027">TS</a>]
00:33:49 ◼ ► now again saying a lot of the issues [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2029">TS</a>]
00:33:52 ◼ ► that come up in these books we we not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2032">TS</a>]
00:33:54 ◼ ► knowingly are like yes that would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2034">TS</a>]
00:33:56 ◼ ► continue to be an issue to the present [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2036">TS</a>]
00:33:58 ◼ ► day maybe not so much for catching on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2038">TS</a>]
00:34:00 ◼ ► yeah but like i said that i love this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2040">TS</a>]
00:34:04 ◼ ► book really enjoy the many kinds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2044">TS</a>]
00:34:09 ◼ ► weirdo that led to her community culture [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2049">TS</a>]
00:34:12 ◼ ► i do wish there was more california in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2052">TS</a>]
00:34:19 ◼ ► especially because of the well did more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2059">TS</a>]
00:34:22 ◼ ► to influence how the internet thinks now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2062">TS</a>]
00:34:25 ◼ ► may I think they're going to build the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2065">TS</a>]
00:34:27 ◼ ► computers but only so much you can stick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2067">TS</a>]
00:34:31 ◼ ► interesting insight Monty the idea that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2071">TS</a>]
00:34:33 ◼ ► the people who kind of operated on top [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2073">TS</a>]
00:34:34 ◼ ► and use the tools did more influence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2074">TS</a>]
00:34:36 ◼ ► than the people actually built the tools [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2076">TS</a>]
00:34:38 ◼ ► so a book like where wizard stay up late [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2078">TS</a>]
00:34:40 ◼ ► which wasn't in the in the Charter for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2080">TS</a>]
00:34:42 ◼ ► this can be happier Matthew lion book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2082">TS</a>]
00:34:44 ◼ ► that is the that is a good origins of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2084">TS</a>]
00:34:46 ◼ ► the internet book there there are a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2086">TS</a>]
00:34:49 ◼ ► bunch of other other sort of similar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2089">TS</a>]
00:34:51 ◼ ► similar books but I think you're right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2091">TS</a>]
00:34:52 ◼ ► you're right about that this is a dense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2092">TS</a>]
00:34:54 ◼ ► book on lots it's like there's a lot to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2094">TS</a>]
00:34:58 ◼ ► my paper back it's like the type is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2098">TS</a>]
00:35:00 ◼ ► very big and there are a whole lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2100">TS</a>]
00:35:02 ◼ ► different stories of of this history [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2102">TS</a>]
00:35:06 ◼ ► alright can I talk about the Cuckoo's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2106">TS</a>]
00:35:08 ◼ ► egg please i love that book so much so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2108">TS</a>]
00:35:12 ◼ ► I'll i do too i love tokens egg and when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2112">TS</a>]
00:35:15 ◼ ► we had the chance to revisit it here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2115">TS</a>]
00:35:19 ◼ ► I jumped at the chance to go back and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2119">TS</a>]
00:35:21 ◼ ► reread it i don't read a lot of books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2121">TS</a>]
00:35:23 ◼ ► it helps that I forgotten everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2123">TS</a>]
00:35:25 ◼ ► that happened in it so i got to be I got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2125">TS</a>]
00:35:28 ◼ ► to enjoy that story again for those who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2128">TS</a>]
00:35:31 ◼ ► haven't read it the Cuckoo's egg it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2131">TS</a>]
00:35:33 ◼ ► essentially it's a it's a mystery story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2133">TS</a>]
00:35:35 ◼ ► of a guy cliff Stoll is Berkeley hippie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2135">TS</a>]
00:35:38 ◼ ► right spike to work at uphill to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2138">TS</a>]
00:35:42 ◼ ► Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory he's an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2142">TS</a>]
00:35:44 ◼ ► astrophysicist he's basically just doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2144">TS</a>]
00:35:46 ◼ ► this is a day job in between star gigs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2146">TS</a>]
00:35:48 ◼ ► yeah they basically lost if they didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2148">TS</a>]
00:35:51 ◼ ► have an astro a uh an astronomy job for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2151">TS</a>]
00:35:54 ◼ ► him and so we they tried to keep his job [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2154">TS</a>]
00:35:56 ◼ ► they transferred him to do I t even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2156">TS</a>]
00:35:59 ◼ ► though he was not really an IT guy and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2159">TS</a>]
00:36:00 ◼ ► there were the two kind of like stuffy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2160">TS</a>]
00:36:02 ◼ ► IT guys and at the Lawrence Berkeley Lab [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2162">TS</a>]
00:36:04 ◼ ► but they let him you know they let him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2164">TS</a>]
00:36:06 ◼ ► he knew he knew a little bit about as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2166">TS</a>]
00:36:08 ◼ ► computer's he was a computer like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2168">TS</a>]
00:36:11 ◼ ► enthusiasts and he also knew astronomy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2171">TS</a>]
00:36:13 ◼ ► and so was not a bad combination but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2173">TS</a>]
00:36:15 ◼ ► very early in his time as an IT guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2175">TS</a>]
00:36:18 ◼ ► Lawrence Berkeley Lab they may find a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2178">TS</a>]
00:36:20 ◼ ► 75-cent discrepancy on their accounting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2180">TS</a>]
00:36:25 ◼ ► system which leads him to discover that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2185">TS</a>]
00:36:27 ◼ ► there's been a hacker creating accounts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2187">TS</a>]
00:36:30 ◼ ► in there in there a computer and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2190">TS</a>]
00:36:32 ◼ ► using the their accounts to tunnel to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2192">TS</a>]
00:36:35 ◼ ► other parts of essentially the internet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2195">TS</a>]
00:36:38 ◼ ► and this unfolds into a story that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2198">TS</a>]
00:36:45 ◼ ► it's and different countries and gets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2205">TS</a>]
00:36:50 ◼ ► terrifyingly the German postal service [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2210">TS</a>]
00:36:53 ◼ ► yeah and follow investigating what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2213">TS</a>]
00:36:55 ◼ ► going on and there's this hippie this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2215">TS</a>]
00:36:58 ◼ ► anti-authoritarian hippie is is like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2218">TS</a>]
00:37:01 ◼ ► would normally have nothing to do with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2221">TS</a>]
00:37:03 ◼ ► anything but i just want to do the right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2223">TS</a>]
00:37:04 ◼ ► thing here and he gets crap from his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2224">TS</a>]
00:37:06 ◼ ► friends who are like why are you why are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2226">TS</a>]
00:37:07 ◼ ► you meeting with the CIA man this guy is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2227">TS</a>]
00:37:10 ◼ ► a hacker guy he's just looking around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2230">TS</a>]
00:37:15 ◼ ► computing history everybody felt that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2235">TS</a>]
00:37:18 ◼ ► everybody a lot of people help passwords [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2238">TS</a>]
00:37:20 ◼ ► or wrong man yeah everything should be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2240">TS</a>]
00:37:25 ◼ ► government-funded or grant funded so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2245">TS</a>]
00:37:26 ◼ ► this gets to like the JSTOR argument [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2246">TS</a>]
00:37:28 ◼ ► today of all the Aaron Swartz and all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2248">TS</a>]
00:37:30 ◼ ► that is like if all this is being funded [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2250">TS</a>]
00:37:32 ◼ ► by public funds and Republicans it right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2252">TS</a>]
00:37:35 ◼ ► to elegant what's being active way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2255">TS</a>]
00:37:37 ◼ ► what's being kept secret unless it's you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2257">TS</a>]
00:37:38 ◼ ► know super secret government stuff and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2258">TS</a>]
00:37:40 ◼ ► then you have you know the war games / [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2260">TS</a>]
00:37:42 ◼ ► real genius scenario right now I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2262">TS</a>]
00:37:44 ◼ ► think it's interesting that some of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2264">TS</a>]
00:37:46 ◼ ► very same people that were keenly in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2266">TS</a>]
00:37:48 ◼ ► favor of everything being opened at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2268">TS</a>]
00:37:50 ◼ ► time have made a 180 degree turn to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2270">TS</a>]
00:37:54 ◼ ► being very into cryptography you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2274">TS</a>]
00:37:56 ◼ ► yeah like actually everything's about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2276">TS</a>]
00:38:01 ◼ ► new plan helps it flips it around though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2281">TS</a>]
00:38:03 ◼ ► because the cryptography is to protect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2283">TS</a>]
00:38:05 ◼ ► you from the government to protect you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2285">TS</a>]
00:38:07 ◼ ► from not play the government from you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2287">TS</a>]
00:38:09 ◼ ► fundamental philosophical change but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2289">TS</a>]
00:38:11 ◼ ► their tactics area had made from we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2291">TS</a>]
00:38:20 ◼ ► what I really love about this book is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2300">TS</a>]
00:38:21 ◼ ► how effortlessly he weaves his whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2301">TS</a>]
00:38:23 ◼ ► happy birthday hippie existence like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2303">TS</a>]
00:38:25 ◼ ► day he shines off work to go listen to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2305">TS</a>]
00:38:27 ◼ ► the Grateful Dead by parking himself on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2307">TS</a>]
00:38:29 ◼ ► a hillside and just like taking the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2309">TS</a>]
00:38:30 ◼ ► concept for free and there's like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2310">TS</a>]
00:38:32 ◼ ► chapter that ends with his chocolate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2312">TS</a>]
00:38:33 ◼ ► chip cookie recipe and there's like an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2313">TS</a>]
00:38:36 ◼ ► interlude a free chapter he's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2316">TS</a>]
00:38:38 ◼ ► making his wedding shirt while thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2318">TS</a>]
00:38:40 ◼ ► about work and I like the moment I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2320">TS</a>]
00:38:42 ◼ ► laughed out loud and couldn't stop that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2322">TS</a>]
00:38:44 ◼ ► there's a moment where he his shoes are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2324">TS</a>]
00:38:46 ◼ ► wet so he decides to dry them in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2326">TS</a>]
00:38:48 ◼ ► microwave LC cloud of smoke and he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2328">TS</a>]
00:38:52 ◼ ► throws it throws it the shoes in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2332">TS</a>]
00:38:54 ◼ ► glass of the microwave out onto the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2334">TS</a>]
00:38:56 ◼ ► driveway with shatters but then he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2336">TS</a>]
00:38:58 ◼ ► to fix it also we put some vanilla on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2338">TS</a>]
00:39:00 ◼ ► the stove and while he's cleaning but he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2340">TS</a>]
00:39:02 ◼ ► forgets that he's got the vanilla so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2342">TS</a>]
00:39:04 ◼ ► then that burns they decided an apology [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2344">TS</a>]
00:39:06 ◼ ► to his girlfriend's gonna bake some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2346">TS</a>]
00:39:07 ◼ ► cookies but the cookie slide off of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2347">TS</a>]
00:39:09 ◼ ► cookie sheet and onto the bottom and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2349">TS</a>]
00:39:10 ◼ ► they burn and this is the state that she [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2350">TS</a>]
00:39:13 ◼ ► finds him in and it's just it'sit's very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2353">TS</a>]
00:39:16 ◼ ► Lawrence Berkeley Lab you're right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2356">TS</a>]
00:39:18 ◼ ► uphill from the Greek Theatre if the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2358">TS</a>]
00:39:19 ◼ ► Grateful better playing you're gonna be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2359">TS</a>]
00:39:21 ◼ ► listening regardless you might as well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2361">TS</a>]
00:39:24 ◼ ► yeah that's where he was he has he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2364">TS</a>]
00:39:25 ◼ ► like it was a beautiful evening there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2365">TS</a>]
00:39:27 ◼ ► some fog coming in and it just sounded [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2367">TS</a>]
00:39:29 ◼ ► like such a great life you know it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2369">TS</a>]
00:39:30 ◼ ► it's a really well written book because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2370">TS</a>]
00:39:32 ◼ ► he combines being extremely technical it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2372">TS</a>]
00:39:36 ◼ ► spots with being extremely endearing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2376">TS</a>]
00:39:39 ◼ ► yes yes I was so much personality in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2379">TS</a>]
00:39:42 ◼ ► this book is a great character of of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2382">TS</a>]
00:39:44 ◼ ► this book because this is a mystery [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2384">TS</a>]
00:39:45 ◼ ► story he's the investigator you've got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2385">TS</a>]
00:39:47 ◼ ► you couldn't write a better story right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2387">TS</a>]
00:39:49 ◼ ► it is it is this this shaggy hippie guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2389">TS</a>]
00:39:53 ◼ ► he-he's berkeley guy but he also has a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2393">TS</a>]
00:39:55 ◼ ► scientist and he understands this stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2395">TS</a>]
00:39:57 ◼ ► and he's dogging in pursuit of this and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2397">TS</a>]
00:39:59 ◼ ► he knows that the person is doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2399">TS</a>]
00:40:00 ◼ ► something wrong even though a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2400">TS</a>]
00:40:03 ◼ ► culture says it's okay he knows that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2403">TS</a>]
00:40:05 ◼ ► something is going wrong here and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2405">TS</a>]
00:40:07 ◼ ► leads him down this path where where you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2407">TS</a>]
00:40:09 ◼ ► know he's got all of the the nice things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2409">TS</a>]
00:40:12 ◼ ► about his character that that his you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2412">TS</a>]
00:40:14 ◼ ► know is his girlfriend and that roommate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2414">TS</a>]
00:40:16 ◼ ► and and they come up with a whole crazy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2416">TS</a>]
00:40:18 ◼ ► plot while while taking a shower and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2418">TS</a>]
00:40:20 ◼ ► operation showerhead yeah all this great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2420">TS</a>]
00:40:22 ◼ ► stuff Enya and then also you've got the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2422">TS</a>]
00:40:24 ◼ ► mystery I mean you it's such a it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2424">TS</a>]
00:40:26 ◼ ► great combination and it's just so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2426">TS</a>]
00:40:30 ◼ ► literally calling up law enforcement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2430">TS</a>]
00:40:32 ◼ ► saying hey there people from like we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2432">TS</a>]
00:40:37 ◼ ► government things and doing searches for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2437">TS</a>]
00:40:39 ◼ ► four straight nuclear weapons and Star [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2439">TS</a>]
00:40:42 ◼ ► Wars program and things like that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2442">TS</a>]
00:40:45 ◼ ► the response is are they stealing money [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2445">TS</a>]
00:40:48 ◼ ► well then we're not interested computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2448">TS</a>]
00:40:51 ◼ ► why did you put those two words together [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2451">TS</a>]
00:40:53 ◼ ► strangely you can still have that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2453">TS</a>]
00:40:54 ◼ ► conversation with law enforcement today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2454">TS</a>]
00:40:56 ◼ ► is the amazing art so the more things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2456">TS</a>]
00:40:58 ◼ ► change the more they stay the same I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2458">TS</a>]
00:40:59 ◼ ► thought I was struck by that there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2459">TS</a>]
00:41:01 ◼ ► still a question of who are the police [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2461">TS</a>]
00:41:03 ◼ ► of of the internet and the answer is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2463">TS</a>]
00:41:05 ◼ ► kind of aren't any and all that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2465">TS</a>]
00:41:07 ◼ ► tactics have changed the the attitude [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2467">TS</a>]
00:41:11 ◼ ► he finds sympathetic people but even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2471">TS</a>]
00:41:13 ◼ ► with the sympathetic people he finds are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2473">TS</a>]
00:41:15 ◼ ► more concerned about using him to prove [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2475">TS</a>]
00:41:16 ◼ ► a point which is that there are people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2476">TS</a>]
00:41:18 ◼ ► that security is bad like I i love the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2478">TS</a>]
00:41:22 ◼ ► fact that he keeps talking about these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2482">TS</a>]
00:41:24 ◼ ► systems that all ship with their with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2484">TS</a>]
00:41:26 ◼ ► with no passwords they are default [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2486">TS</a>]
00:41:28 ◼ ► passwords like that's out-of-the-box [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2488">TS</a>]
00:41:30 ◼ ► they come with fully privilege system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2490">TS</a>]
00:41:32 ◼ ► administrator accounts with a stock [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2492">TS</a>]
00:41:34 ◼ ► password and unless you change it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2494">TS</a>]
00:41:37 ◼ ► somebody can just get in so that's bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2497">TS</a>]
00:41:39 ◼ ► but what's even worse is there's a part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2499">TS</a>]
00:41:41 ◼ ► of the book where somebody that i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2501">TS</a>]
00:41:43 ◼ ► the the the Air Force talks to somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2503">TS</a>]
00:41:45 ◼ ► at an Air Force Base and basically says [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2505">TS</a>]
00:41:47 ◼ ► change all the passwords and six months [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2507">TS</a>]
00:41:49 ◼ ► later he finds that there's a break in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2509">TS</a>]
00:41:52 ◼ ► there and the guys like I told them to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2512">TS</a>]
00:41:54 ◼ ► change the passwords did they just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2514">TS</a>]
00:41:55 ◼ ► didn't do it well and then you but then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2515">TS</a>]
00:41:58 ◼ ► everyone in the world ships with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2518">TS</a>]
00:42:00 ◼ ► password admin you find things like all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2520">TS</a>]
00:42:02 ◼ ► the voting machines in America by some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2522">TS</a>]
00:42:04 ◼ ► company has the password 1234 that ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2524">TS</a>]
00:42:09 ◼ ► pictures of their close-up keys for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2529">TS</a>]
00:42:11 ◼ ► photograph of their master luggage keys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2531">TS</a>]
00:42:13 ◼ ► like nothing has changed yeah they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2533">TS</a>]
00:42:15 ◼ ► actually Madison hack from what i read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2535">TS</a>]
00:42:18 ◼ ► happened because their system password [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2538">TS</a>]
00:42:22 ◼ ► oh my god and that's our company guys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2542">TS</a>]
00:42:24 ◼ ► entire business model is 100-percent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2544">TS</a>]
00:42:27 ◼ ► data security here I really i re-read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2547">TS</a>]
00:42:30 ◼ ► couch like a few times and I think I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2550">TS</a>]
00:42:32 ◼ ► read it last a while ago but I remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2552">TS</a>]
00:42:34 ◼ ► very distinctly I would always liked him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2554">TS</a>]
00:42:36 ◼ ► because he was self aware of read books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2556">TS</a>]
00:42:38 ◼ ► like that like you read on the jonmar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2558">TS</a>]
00:42:40 ◼ ► coughs book or he wrote it with to tomo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2560">TS</a>]
00:42:43 ◼ ► show more I which was right let's see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2563">TS</a>]
00:42:45 ◼ ► the few years later that was a takedown [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2565">TS</a>]
00:42:47 ◼ ► about the kevin Mitnick so the thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2567">TS</a>]
00:42:50 ◼ ► there is written to tomah was the guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2570">TS</a>]
00:42:51 ◼ ► who helped take him down and Mark off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2571">TS</a>]
00:42:54 ◼ ► came on to write the book and there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2574">TS</a>]
00:42:56 ◼ ► lot of questions about how particularly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2576">TS</a>]
00:42:58 ◼ ► accurate the story is whether Mitnick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2578">TS</a>]
00:43:00 ◼ ► actually did you know damages all these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2580">TS</a>]
00:43:02 ◼ ► things about you know what he actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2582">TS</a>]
00:43:03 ◼ ► steal using social engineering all that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2583">TS</a>]
00:43:05 ◼ ► but i think that book is very serious [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2585">TS</a>]
00:43:08 ◼ ► it's like there's a sky is running and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2588">TS</a>]
00:43:11 ◼ ► relentless pursuer who's a genius [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2591">TS</a>]
00:43:12 ◼ ► computers like cliff Stoll book is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2592">TS</a>]
00:43:14 ◼ ► I'm is total goofball and he knows any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2594">TS</a>]
00:43:17 ◼ ► revels in his own goofiness enjoys it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2597">TS</a>]
00:43:21 ◼ ► god-knows-where you talk about where you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2601">TS</a>]
00:43:22 ◼ ► go you know he's like what am i doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2602">TS</a>]
00:43:24 ◼ ► people ask me why my pursuing this so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2604">TS</a>]
00:43:28 ◼ ► self-reflection that makes the book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2608">TS</a>]
00:43:30 ◼ ► enjoyable gives you a position as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2610">TS</a>]
00:43:31 ◼ ► reader to have sympathy for him and also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2611">TS</a>]
00:43:34 ◼ ► in enjoy it but you know I don't know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2614">TS</a>]
00:43:37 ◼ ► think it's that the story as a whole is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2617">TS</a>]
00:43:39 ◼ ► you agree with it like something is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2619">TS</a>]
00:43:42 ◼ ► something not right and it should be put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2622">TS</a>]
00:43:45 ◼ ► correct but it's very very hard to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2625">TS</a>]
00:43:48 ◼ ► yeah and it helps that at the end you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2628">TS</a>]
00:43:50 ◼ ► find out it's german hackers being paid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2630">TS</a>]
00:43:53 ◼ ► by the Russian government that the KGB [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2633">TS</a>]
00:43:55 ◼ ► KGB are paying for secrets from these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2635">TS</a>]
00:43:59 ◼ ► german hackers and in any fantastic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2639">TS</a>]
00:44:01 ◼ ► twist they set up so one of my favorite [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2641">TS</a>]
00:44:04 ◼ ► things in the book is a set of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2644">TS</a>]
00:44:05 ◼ ► operation showerhead where they invent a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2645">TS</a>]
00:44:08 ◼ ► character who's a secretary at LBL they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2648">TS</a>]
00:44:10 ◼ ► invent an entire division called SDI net [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2650">TS</a>]
00:44:14 ◼ ► which has strategic defense initiative [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2654">TS</a>]
00:44:15 ◼ ► is the code for the Ronald Reagan's Star [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2655">TS</a>]
00:44:17 ◼ ► Wars project so they set this all up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2657">TS</a>]
00:44:19 ◼ ► they create I get the sense to that at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2659">TS</a>]
00:44:22 ◼ ► this point he his he mentioned it a few [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2662">TS</a>]
00:44:24 ◼ ► points like he is spending a lot of time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2664">TS</a>]
00:44:26 ◼ ► on this because they invent dozens or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2666">TS</a>]
00:44:29 ◼ ► hundreds of documents about SDI net just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2669">TS</a>]
00:44:31 ◼ ► to create this honey pot and and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2671">TS</a>]
00:44:34 ◼ ► know the hacker seems interested at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2674">TS</a>]
00:44:36 ◼ ► first he dumped some of the files you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2676">TS</a>]
00:44:38 ◼ ► know he comes back a little bit later [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2678">TS</a>]
00:44:39 ◼ ► but seems to have lost some interest in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2679">TS</a>]
00:44:41 ◼ ► it and then they get a letter for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2681">TS</a>]
00:44:46 ◼ ► fictitious secretary and they're like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2686">TS</a>]
00:44:49 ◼ ► what the hell just happened and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2689">TS</a>]
00:44:52 ◼ ► pennsylvania and it's from a guy with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2692">TS</a>]
00:44:54 ◼ ► Hungarian name and it turns out that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2694">TS</a>]
00:44:56 ◼ ► he's basically somebody that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2696">TS</a>]
00:44:58 ◼ ► the KGB checker the KGB called somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2698">TS</a>]
00:45:01 ◼ ► who call somebody who sends who then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2701">TS</a>]
00:45:03 ◼ ► they say mail this letter they hand him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2703">TS</a>]
00:45:05 ◼ ► a letter and emails the letter a sign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2705">TS</a>]
00:45:08 ◼ ► and mail this and yeah they're checking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2708">TS</a>]
00:45:10 ◼ ► up on this on the secrets that are being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2710">TS</a>]
00:45:12 ◼ ► sold to them how crazy is that and this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2712">TS</a>]
00:45:14 ◼ ► is all just these cookies in Berkeley [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2714">TS</a>]
00:45:15 ◼ ► who r RA yeah whatever chicken streaker [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2715">TS</a>]
00:45:19 ◼ ► if we could like get someone in the snag [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2719">TS</a>]
00:45:21 ◼ ► called Operation showerhead and then it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2721">TS</a>]
00:45:24 ◼ ► but that's another funny thing in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2724">TS</a>]
00:45:27 ◼ ► book is that one of the people he meets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2727">TS</a>]
00:45:30 ◼ ► one of the spea CIA guys he meets a guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2730">TS</a>]
00:45:33 ◼ ► named Robert Morris who basically him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2733">TS</a>]
00:45:36 ◼ ► sweeps away and take some somewhere to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2736">TS</a>]
00:45:38 ◼ ► meet this and they get and he gets he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2738">TS</a>]
00:45:41 ◼ ► gets like a certificate of appreciation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2741">TS</a>]
00:45:44 ◼ ► they're like that come on the guy from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2744">TS</a>]
00:45:45 ◼ ► berkeley want something he's helped us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2745">TS</a>]
00:45:46 ◼ ► out here now that nobody tells the story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2746">TS</a>]
00:45:49 ◼ ► about like talking this guy who's got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2749">TS</a>]
00:45:50 ◼ ► all these questions about astronomy he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2750">TS</a>]
00:45:52 ◼ ► obviously an astronomy nut and and he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2752">TS</a>]
00:45:55 ◼ ► gets the sense like there's always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2755">TS</a>]
00:45:58 ◼ ► astronomy and dealing with the CIA that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2758">TS</a>]
00:46:00 ◼ ► the keyhole satellites are floating in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2760">TS</a>]
00:46:01 ◼ ► the background there's like nobody talks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2761">TS</a>]
00:46:03 ◼ ► about the keyhole satellite but like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2763">TS</a>]
00:46:04 ◼ ► imagine what if there was a hubble space [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2764">TS</a>]
00:46:06 ◼ ► telescope pointing the other way he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2766">TS</a>]
00:46:08 ◼ ► like well that was oh say no more right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2768">TS</a>]
00:46:10 ◼ ► so he talks to this robert morris guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2770">TS</a>]
00:46:12 ◼ ► and tells the story about about how he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2772">TS</a>]
00:46:14 ◼ ► a chain smoker any and he drives the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2774">TS</a>]
00:46:16 ◼ ► windows rolled up in the winter and in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2776">TS</a>]
00:46:18 ◼ ► Maryland and he almost dies in the car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2778">TS</a>]
00:46:20 ◼ ► of asphyxiation from this and I and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2780">TS</a>]
00:46:23 ◼ ► you know knowing it now you realize what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2783">TS</a>]
00:46:25 ◼ ► he's setting up which is one of the last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2785">TS</a>]
00:46:26 ◼ ► chapters of the book and it's kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2786">TS</a>]
00:46:28 ◼ ► not relevant to his story but it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2788">TS</a>]
00:46:29 ◼ ► too good not to put in the book is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2789">TS</a>]
00:46:31 ◼ ► Robert Morris his son is the guy who did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2791">TS</a>]
00:46:35 ◼ ► the first big internet worm and shut [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2795">TS</a>]
00:46:38 ◼ ► down like thousands of computers i want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2798">TS</a>]
00:46:41 ◼ ► boy was in college and so that at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2801">TS</a>]
00:46:43 ◼ ► end of the book that story comes up and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2803">TS</a>]
00:46:45 ◼ ► it's really funny because he said but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2805">TS</a>]
00:46:46 ◼ ► you know it's like it's it's that guy's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2806">TS</a>]
00:46:48 ◼ ► kid who did this and that guys like he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2808">TS</a>]
00:46:50 ◼ ► a cyber security guy at the CIA but his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2810">TS</a>]
00:46:53 ◼ ► kid shut down half the internet with his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2813">TS</a>]
00:46:55 ◼ ► with the first internetwork yeah he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2815">TS</a>]
00:46:57 ◼ ► sneaks it up on you because it's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2817">TS</a>]
00:46:59 ◼ ► character the father's is called Bob [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2819">TS</a>]
00:47:02 ◼ ► Morris Morrison exclusively and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2822">TS</a>]
00:47:04 ◼ ► there's a chapter they know that this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2824">TS</a>]
00:47:06 ◼ ► new world was created by somebody named [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2826">TS</a>]
00:47:07 ◼ ► rtm and they can't figure out who that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2827">TS</a>]
00:47:10 ◼ ► yeah and Bob horses like it's robert [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2830">TS</a>]
00:47:13 ◼ ► robert morris jr true story but so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2833">TS</a>]
00:47:17 ◼ ► that's what that's a crazy thing to so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2837">TS</a>]
00:47:19 ◼ ► i highly recommend this book just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2839">TS</a>]
00:47:20 ◼ ► because it's fun but but what's funny [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2840">TS</a>]
00:47:23 ◼ ► about it is that these issues it's all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2843">TS</a>]
00:47:25 ◼ ► different today right i mean now we've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2845">TS</a>]
00:47:27 ◼ ► got cryptography the actions that people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2847">TS</a>]
00:47:29 ◼ ► like the the hacker who stole is chasing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2849">TS</a>]
00:47:33 ◼ ► are far more complicated today they but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2853">TS</a>]
00:47:37 ◼ ► you know at the same time they're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2857">TS</a>]
00:47:38 ◼ ► that different the tools are different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2858">TS</a>]
00:47:40 ◼ ► the tools are more sophisticated but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2860">TS</a>]
00:47:42 ◼ ► it's still a game being played today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2862">TS</a>]
00:47:43 ◼ ► it's just being played at a edit on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2863">TS</a>]
00:47:46 ◼ ► different board than it was back then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2866">TS</a>]
00:47:48 ◼ ► yeah yeah it's um it's funny how much it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2868">TS</a>]
00:47:52 ◼ ► seemed like well that's a blip and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2872">TS</a>]
00:47:54 ◼ ► they'll fix it i think even in those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2874">TS</a>]
00:47:57 ◼ ► days as like well this is sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2877">TS</a>]
00:47:58 ◼ ► hilarious in an apt but you know it'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2878">TS</a>]
00:48:01 ◼ ► get better and then the more i was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2881">TS</a>]
00:48:02 ◼ ► working you know started doing stuff on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2882">TS</a>]
00:48:04 ◼ ► the internet 94 I had my password file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2884">TS</a>]
00:48:05 ◼ ► stolen and sent to me and 96 by somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2885">TS</a>]
00:48:11 ◼ ► yeah i was still encrypted in but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2891">TS</a>]
00:48:13 ◼ ► know was taken and I had some break-ins [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2893">TS</a>]
00:48:15 ◼ ► in those days which is something that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2895">TS</a>]
00:48:16 ◼ ► happens in this book is they don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2896">TS</a>]
00:48:18 ◼ ► why they're stealing the password files [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2898">TS</a>]
00:48:20 ◼ ► dictionary y'all search offline of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2900">TS</a>]
00:48:23 ◼ ► password file and finding the single [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2903">TS</a>]
00:48:25 ◼ ► word passwords that match some of those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2905">TS</a>]
00:48:29 ◼ ► probably oh that's four years later [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2909">TS</a>]
00:48:30 ◼ ► Robert yeah it's not it's just nothing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2910">TS</a>]
00:48:32 ◼ ► got better everything that works because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2912">TS</a>]
00:48:34 ◼ ► number lessons learned at that time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2914">TS</a>]
00:48:36 ◼ ► wherever really put into effect there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2916">TS</a>]
00:48:40 ◼ ► regulations don't work obviously by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2920">TS</a>]
00:48:41 ◼ ► themselves but it didn't become like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2921">TS</a>]
00:48:43 ◼ ► standard practice it wasn't concerned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2923">TS</a>]
00:48:45 ◼ ► computer companies want to make things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2925">TS</a>]
00:48:48 ◼ ► going back to the soul of a new machine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2928">TS</a>]
00:48:50 ◼ ► is you gotta ship and you gotta ship [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2930">TS</a>]
00:48:52 ◼ ► insecurity something you do later years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2932">TS</a>]
00:48:54 ◼ ► later and that's still pay the price [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2934">TS</a>]
00:48:56 ◼ ► one of the biggest disconnect I had to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2936">TS</a>]
00:48:58 ◼ ► cover our essay this year the security [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2938">TS</a>]
00:49:00 ◼ ► conference and one of the biggest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2940">TS</a>]
00:49:01 ◼ ► disconnects i had was I would sit in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2941">TS</a>]
00:49:03 ◼ ► keynote after keynote where you'd have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2943">TS</a>]
00:49:05 ◼ ► sea level executives and CSO and people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2945">TS</a>]
00:49:07 ◼ ► who are Troubleshooters and fight the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2947">TS</a>]
00:49:09 ◼ ► stuff for living saying there is no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2949">TS</a>]
00:49:11 ◼ ► technological solution you have to work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2951">TS</a>]
00:49:14 ◼ ► on human behavior and it and then I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2954">TS</a>]
00:49:17 ◼ ► would walk onto the show floor and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2957">TS</a>]
00:49:19 ◼ ► Moscow knee east and west were both [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2959">TS</a>]
00:49:22 ◼ ► taken up with with nothing but vendors [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2962">TS</a>]
00:49:24 ◼ ► promising all manner of hardware and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2964">TS</a>]
00:49:25 ◼ ► software solution get your get your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2965">TS</a>]
00:49:29 ◼ ► commercial saying our kids will not have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2969">TS</a>]
00:49:32 ◼ ► well you know what in the RSA thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2972">TS</a>]
00:49:34 ◼ ► the two that the front that things keep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2974">TS</a>]
00:49:36 ◼ ► popping overview of where everyone kept [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2976">TS</a>]
00:49:37 ◼ ► saying we live in a post node world we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2977">TS</a>]
00:49:39 ◼ ► have to assume that anyone anywhere can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2979">TS</a>]
00:49:42 ◼ ► leak your information that's that's your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2982">TS</a>]
00:49:44 ◼ ► assumption is that your systems are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2984">TS</a>]
00:49:45 ◼ ► inherently unsafe because people use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2985">TS</a>]
00:49:46 ◼ ► them and that and then they move on to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2986">TS</a>]
00:49:49 ◼ ► the only thing you can really do is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2989">TS</a>]
00:49:51 ◼ ► invest in human capital human behavior [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2991">TS</a>]
00:49:53 ◼ ► and you have to work on on behavioral [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2993">TS</a>]
00:49:55 ◼ ► training because technology can't do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2995">TS</a>]
00:49:57 ◼ ► that for people and yet i walked on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2997">TS</a>]
00:49:59 ◼ ► show floor and I thought okay surely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/2999">TS</a>]
00:50:01 ◼ ► prising consultants or something or like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3001">TS</a>]
00:50:03 ◼ ► we dispatch a team of nerds to brainwash [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3003">TS</a>]
00:50:06 ◼ ► your people into practicing decent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3006">TS</a>]
00:50:10 ◼ ► software and and you can nanny your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3010">TS</a>]
00:50:12 ◼ ► users this way you can monitor that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3012">TS</a>]
00:50:14 ◼ ► can block this you can do that you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3014">TS</a>]
00:50:16 ◼ ► make them change their password to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3016">TS</a>]
00:50:17 ◼ ► another 12 character password every two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3017">TS</a>]
00:50:19 ◼ ► weeks that will be high security if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3019">TS</a>]
00:50:22 ◼ ► look at you if you look at the Cuckoo's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3022">TS</a>]
00:50:24 ◼ ► egg which again highly recommend i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3024">TS</a>]
00:50:27 ◼ ► anybody would like it on the the wood [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3027">TS</a>]
00:50:31 ◼ ► the lesson I take away from it is it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3031">TS</a>]
00:50:33 ◼ ► it's yes it seems kind of like an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3033">TS</a>]
00:50:36 ◼ ► innocent time and yet it also says that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3036">TS</a>]
00:50:39 ◼ ► in the in 1986 and 87 on the roots you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3039">TS</a>]
00:50:44 ◼ ► know on the early internet where there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3044">TS</a>]
00:50:48 ◼ ► were you know people had pcs and macs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3048">TS</a>]
00:50:50 ◼ ► and stuff but thats so much was going on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3050">TS</a>]
00:50:52 ◼ ► in these backs and unix systems that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3052">TS</a>]
00:50:53 ◼ ► were out there accent EMS systems that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3053">TS</a>]
00:50:56 ◼ ► all of all or most of the problems that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3056">TS</a>]
00:51:02 ◼ ► it's just a matter of degree and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3062">TS</a>]
00:51:04 ◼ ► the world of the world is different and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3064">TS</a>]
00:51:07 ◼ ► simpler in some ways back then it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3067">TS</a>]
00:51:10 ◼ ► but it in other ways not different at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3070">TS</a>]
00:51:13 ◼ ► all because it's the same issues dogs to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3073">TS</a>]
00:51:16 ◼ ► this day about security about the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3076">TS</a>]
00:51:18 ◼ ► problems with security about insecure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3078">TS</a>]
00:51:21 ◼ ► software being fundamental problem its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3081">TS</a>]
00:51:25 ◼ ► it and organizations being incapable of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3085">TS</a>]
00:51:27 ◼ ► handling it and at several points [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3087">TS</a>]
00:51:29 ◼ ► they're like they just want to shut [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3089">TS</a>]
00:51:30 ◼ ► their their door to the hacker and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3090">TS</a>]
00:51:32 ◼ ► know the actor will just find other ways [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3092">TS</a>]
00:51:33 ◼ ► in and they will lose their ability to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3093">TS</a>]
00:51:35 ◼ ► to follow him and people and and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3095">TS</a>]
00:51:38 ◼ ► know the functionaries that these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3098">TS</a>]
00:51:39 ◼ ► organizations are like I just know i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3099">TS</a>]
00:51:40 ◼ ► just going to close the hole and move on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3100">TS</a>]
00:51:41 ◼ ► with my life and so no you can't but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3101">TS</a>]
00:51:44 ◼ ► that and let you know that kind of stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3104">TS</a>]
00:51:45 ◼ ► still happens today so on that level I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3105">TS</a>]
00:51:49 ◼ ► technology wise but totally applicable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3109">TS</a>]
00:51:52 ◼ ► to the issues that the technology world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3112">TS</a>]
00:51:55 ◼ ► faces even today I think can we talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3115">TS</a>]
00:51:58 ◼ ► about a few other books briefly yes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3118">TS</a>]
00:51:59 ◼ ► before we do let's talk about who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3119">TS</a>]
00:52:01 ◼ ► everything else that's in the idea if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3121">TS</a>]
00:52:03 ◼ ► that's any seller or the Attic wherever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3123">TS</a>]
00:52:06 ◼ ► you keep your books about technology [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3126">TS</a>]
00:52:08 ◼ ► from the eighties and nineties but i can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3128">TS</a>]
00:52:10 ◼ ► go fast yeah okay well for something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3130">TS</a>]
00:52:14 ◼ ► sold in the Machine and it predates [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3134">TS</a>]
00:52:17 ◼ ► microservices Hannah Kash it's actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3137">TS</a>]
00:52:21 ◼ ► kind of the Middle Ages microservice 95 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3141">TS</a>]
00:52:23 ◼ ► right media lab is the 88 and Stewart [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3143">TS</a>]
00:52:27 ◼ ► Brand who is catalog right the media lab [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3147">TS</a>]
00:52:31 ◼ ► I remember reading this thing and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3151">TS</a>]
00:52:32 ◼ ► blew my mind the late 1980s because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3152">TS</a>]
00:52:35 ◼ ► was about this incredible institute of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3155">TS</a>]
00:52:37 ◼ ► the future in which sorry this is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3157">TS</a>]
00:52:41 ◼ ► yeah and so the yes you read this yes I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3161">TS</a>]
00:52:44 ◼ ► understand it's incredible and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3164">TS</a>]
00:52:46 ◼ ► totally shaped and influenced my life [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3166">TS</a>]
00:52:48 ◼ ► said this is what I want more so than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3168">TS</a>]
00:52:50 ◼ ► other books i read it and said this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3170">TS</a>]
00:52:52 ◼ ► what I want I want technology that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3172">TS</a>]
00:52:56 ◼ ► component that's something I get my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3176">TS</a>]
00:52:58 ◼ ► hands into and that could help change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3178">TS</a>]
00:53:00 ◼ ► the world and maybe it's cool but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3180">TS</a>]
00:53:02 ◼ ► not about money it's about doing things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3182">TS</a>]
00:53:04 ◼ ► that are transformative and then I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3184">TS</a>]
00:53:05 ◼ ► lucky enough after college I went to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3185">TS</a>]
00:53:08 ◼ ► work for this division of kodak all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3188">TS</a>]
00:53:09 ◼ ► center for creative imaging which was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3189">TS</a>]
00:53:11 ◼ ► created specifically to be a little bit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3191">TS</a>]
00:53:13 ◼ ► like the media lab without any resources [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3193">TS</a>]
00:53:15 ◼ ► not the whole story but i gotta have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3195">TS</a>]
00:53:17 ◼ ► little taste of what it was like to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3197">TS</a>]
00:53:19 ◼ ► in a Camelot of like super creative [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3199">TS</a>]
00:53:21 ◼ ► artistic people coming together an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3201">TS</a>]
00:53:22 ◼ ► intersection of Technology culture you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3202">TS</a>]
00:53:25 ◼ ► know art and business and it was like oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3205">TS</a>]
00:53:26 ◼ ► you know and that's something i've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3206">TS</a>]
00:53:28 ◼ ► wanted to recapture but i think the book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3208">TS</a>]
00:53:30 ◼ ► is incredible slice and I just went to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3210">TS</a>]
00:53:32 ◼ ► the media lab never been there before i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3212">TS</a>]
00:53:33 ◼ ► visited it with a friend whose grad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3213">TS</a>]
00:53:35 ◼ ► student their post grad student and he'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3215">TS</a>]
00:53:38 ◼ ► be too around the whole place and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3218">TS</a>]
00:53:39 ◼ ► you know they had it's bigger it's very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3219">TS</a>]
00:53:40 ◼ ► expensive but it continues to further [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3220">TS</a>]
00:53:44 ◼ ► interesting stuff continues to come out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3224">TS</a>]
00:53:46 ◼ ► of it i just winds up going often more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3226">TS</a>]
00:53:48 ◼ ► quickly into commerce than necessarily [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3228">TS</a>]
00:53:51 ◼ ► having an impact on culture but it still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3231">TS</a>]
00:53:53 ◼ ► let's wear a lot of ideas from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3233">TS</a>]
00:53:54 ◼ ► Bitcoin the guy who's the main guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3234">TS</a>]
00:53:56 ◼ ► behind bitcoin now works at MIT because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3236">TS</a>]
00:53:58 ◼ ► his group at the media lab because the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3238">TS</a>]
00:54:00 ◼ ► group that was supposed to foster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3240">TS</a>]
00:54:02 ◼ ► Bitcoin fell apart and Sony labs like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3242">TS</a>]
00:54:04 ◼ ► eight you come here with some other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3244">TS</a>]
00:54:05 ◼ ► people will do a cryptocurrency group [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3245">TS</a>]
00:54:07 ◼ ► and we'll just pay for your celery so we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3247">TS</a>]
00:54:09 ◼ ► can keep Bitcoin software going someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3249">TS</a>]
00:54:12 ◼ ► and just quickly like being digital by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3252">TS</a>]
00:54:14 ◼ ► nicholas negroponte and everything that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3254">TS</a>]
00:54:17 ◼ ► yeah about it Sammy lab this is eight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3257">TS</a>]
00:54:19 ◼ ► years later he was the head of the media [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3259">TS</a>]
00:54:20 ◼ ► lab and then drove it through its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3260">TS</a>]
00:54:23 ◼ ► tremendous growth there's what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3263">TS</a>]
00:54:24 ◼ ► Dormouse said which is a doormouse said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3264">TS</a>]
00:54:27 ◼ ► which is a subtitles how the sixties [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3267">TS</a>]
00:54:30 ◼ ► counterculture shape the personal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3270">TS</a>]
00:54:31 ◼ ► computer industry market value and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3271">TS</a>]
00:54:32 ◼ ► marketing 2006 it's a really lovely book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3272">TS</a>]
00:54:36 ◼ ► and Stuart brands in there and kevin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3276">TS</a>]
00:54:37 ◼ ► kelly and all these interesting people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3277">TS</a>]
00:54:39 ◼ ► you know Steve Jobs all the people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3279">TS</a>]
00:54:41 ◼ ► founded companies and it's a look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3281">TS</a>]
00:54:43 ◼ ► like I really legitimate look about how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3283">TS</a>]
00:54:48 ◼ ► actually did open up this does for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3288">TS</a>]
00:54:50 ◼ ► people that led directly into stuff that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3290">TS</a>]
00:54:53 ◼ ► was commercial and the one thing I'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3293">TS</a>]
00:54:55 ◼ ► say about fake steve jobs his book I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3295">TS</a>]
00:54:57 ◼ ► don't necessarily recommend reading [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3297">TS</a>]
00:54:58 ◼ ► isn't that bad is that I think his non [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3298">TS</a>]
00:55:01 ◼ ► is fictional book about jobs actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3301">TS</a>]
00:55:04 ◼ ► cracked part of that code in a way that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3304">TS</a>]
00:55:06 ◼ ► dormouse is really the nonfiction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3306">TS</a>]
00:55:07 ◼ ► version of how you take utopian ideals [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3307">TS</a>]
00:55:10 ◼ ► and mind explaining expanding I you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3310">TS</a>]
00:55:13 ◼ ► drugs other stuff and you turn it into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3313">TS</a>]
00:55:14 ◼ ► something people can hold in their hand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3314">TS</a>]
00:55:16 ◼ ► and it has this effect on them as if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3316">TS</a>]
00:55:18 ◼ ► they're part of it even though it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3318">TS</a>]
00:55:19 ◼ ► purely an object so that those are mine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3319">TS</a>]
00:55:22 ◼ ► that's my arrangements I've got a book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3322">TS</a>]
00:55:24 ◼ ► i'd like to throw in yeah if people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3324">TS</a>]
00:55:26 ◼ ► enjoyed hackers and what to really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3326">TS</a>]
00:55:28 ◼ ► immerse themselves in these people i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3328">TS</a>]
00:55:32 ◼ ► really like the new hackers dictionary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3332">TS</a>]
00:55:34 ◼ ► yes the third edition i think is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3334">TS</a>]
00:55:38 ◼ ► last edition that was published as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3338">TS</a>]
00:55:39 ◼ ► book it was edited by eric s Raymond [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3339">TS</a>]
00:55:41 ◼ ► America he was inexplicably nominated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3341">TS</a>]
00:55:44 ◼ ► for best new writer for the hugo this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3344">TS</a>]
00:55:46 ◼ ► year based on one short story but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3346">TS</a>]
00:55:49 ◼ ► obviously the distance unexplainable but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3349">TS</a>]
00:55:53 ◼ ► that's how about an explainable he wrote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3353">TS</a>]
00:55:59 ◼ ► luckily moved online and you can just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3359">TS</a>]
00:56:02 ◼ ► wallow in the ridiculous lingo of lots [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3362">TS</a>]
00:56:07 ◼ ► of different hacker subcultures the sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3367">TS</a>]
00:56:11 ◼ ► of people who look at El Camino rial a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3371">TS</a>]
00:56:13 ◼ ► long road in California and say that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3373">TS</a>]
00:56:15 ◼ ► way too long to be a real number and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3375">TS</a>]
00:56:18 ◼ ► it's just I'm calling it el camino [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3378">TS</a>]
00:56:19 ◼ ► bignum because that's the kind of number [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3379">TS</a>]
00:56:25 ◼ ► right by i like how we all decided that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3385">TS</a>]
00:56:31 ◼ ► but that it is a great document of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3391">TS</a>]
00:56:37 ◼ ► hackers era people the the only 1 i've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3397">TS</a>]
00:56:41 ◼ ► got is back when I got the Cuckoo's egg [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3401">TS</a>]
00:56:43 ◼ ► and soul of the new machine and all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3403">TS</a>]
00:56:45 ◼ ► other one that I read was the hacker [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3405">TS</a>]
00:56:47 ◼ ► crackdown law and disorder on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3407">TS</a>]
00:56:49 ◼ ► Electronic Frontier by bruce sterling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3409">TS</a>]
00:56:51 ◼ ► i'm gonna have sterling that I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3411">TS</a>]
00:56:55 ◼ ► remember it at all i think it was like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3415">TS</a>]
00:56:57 ◼ ► federal statute that Bruce Sterling had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3417">TS</a>]
00:56:59 ◼ ► to be on everybody's bookshelf from 1992 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3419">TS</a>]
00:57:02 ◼ ► 1999 that was about the big secret [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3422">TS</a>]
00:57:04 ◼ ► service attack that led to the eff and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3424">TS</a>]
00:57:09 ◼ ► yeah focused on the Steve Jackson games [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3429">TS</a>]
00:57:11 ◼ ► attack i read a book that was kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3431">TS</a>]
00:57:13 ◼ ► written attempted to be written the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3433">TS</a>]
00:57:14 ◼ ► Spirit of the books are talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3434">TS</a>]
00:57:16 ◼ ► and it was one of the most depressing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3436">TS</a>]
00:57:18 ◼ ► books are written in a while that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3438">TS</a>]
00:57:19 ◼ ► Scott Rosenberg dreaming and code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3439">TS</a>]
00:57:23 ◼ ► depressing because you think about all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3443">TS</a>]
00:57:24 ◼ ► of the work that went into it and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3444">TS</a>]
00:57:25 ◼ ► still don't have a complete product and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3445">TS</a>]
00:57:27 ◼ ► like any epilogue he's like well i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3447">TS</a>]
00:57:29 ◼ ► still using google calendar because i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3449">TS</a>]
00:57:31 ◼ ► know these guys are smart they worked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3451">TS</a>]
00:57:32 ◼ ► really hard but a that because I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3452">TS</a>]
00:57:38 ◼ ► the best explanation for non-programmers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3458">TS</a>]
00:57:40 ◼ ► i think a non program could read the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3460">TS</a>]
00:57:41 ◼ ► book and go oh this is why software ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3461">TS</a>]
00:57:45 ◼ ► yeah yeah yeah it's it's just it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3465">TS</a>]
00:57:48 ◼ ► so depressing in a way because you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3468">TS</a>]
00:57:50 ◼ ► you're reading it and you're thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3470">TS</a>]
00:57:51 ◼ ► about all of the people who poured their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3471">TS</a>]
00:57:53 ◼ ► time in their energy and their passion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3473">TS</a>]
00:57:55 ◼ ► and they just keep getting tripped up by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3475">TS</a>]
00:57:57 ◼ ► out like each other or even things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3477">TS</a>]
00:57:59 ◼ ► are breaking the code or people's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3479">TS</a>]
00:58:01 ◼ ► endless quest for perfection like a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3481">TS</a>]
00:58:03 ◼ ► of this book is about how perfect is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3483">TS</a>]
00:58:06 ◼ ► yes and it's it's it's the kind of book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3486">TS</a>]
00:58:09 ◼ ► where if it had come out like in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3489">TS</a>]
00:58:11 ◼ ► eighties and nineties i think a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3491">TS</a>]
00:58:12 ◼ ► people like wow those software engineers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3492">TS</a>]
00:58:14 ◼ ► will learn their kind of crazy and my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3494">TS</a>]
00:58:16 ◼ ► goodness and now you're like oh god yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3496">TS</a>]
00:58:22 ◼ ► interesting as it really is written in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3502">TS</a>]
00:58:25 ◼ ► eighties and nineties in this by Scott [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3505">TS</a>]
00:58:26 ◼ ► Rosenberg who is one of who used to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3506">TS</a>]
00:58:28 ◼ ► like a really big over at salon and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3508">TS</a>]
00:58:32 ◼ ► were like way back in the news they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3512">TS</a>]
00:58:34 ◼ ► kind of spiritual successor to like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3514">TS</a>]
00:58:36 ◼ ► whole Clifford stole we are hippies who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3516">TS</a>]
00:58:39 ◼ ► of life in technology and things are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3519">TS</a>]
00:58:40 ◼ ► cool man and be suspicious of authority [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3520">TS</a>]
00:58:43 ◼ ► and I think Rosen you have to look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3523">TS</a>]
00:58:45 ◼ ► the tone rosenberg took and shaping tech [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3525">TS</a>]
00:58:48 ◼ ► coverage from salon from like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3528">TS</a>]
00:58:49 ◼ ► mid-nineties to that the mid-autumn ease [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3529">TS</a>]
00:58:51 ◼ ► and and it's very much tied into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3531">TS</a>]
00:58:55 ◼ ► I only 1i want to mention since we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3535">TS</a>]
00:58:58 ◼ ► talked about Steven Levy and I I said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3538">TS</a>]
00:59:00 ◼ ► yeah actresses goes I remember all those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3540">TS</a>]
00:59:02 ◼ ► super dense i will recommend you i would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3542">TS</a>]
00:59:06 ◼ ► insanely great is a great story of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3546">TS</a>]
00:59:09 ◼ ► invention of the Macintosh was that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3549">TS</a>]
00:59:12 ◼ ► is a computer that was used apparently [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3552">TS</a>]
00:59:15 ◼ ► by people in Microsoft in 1995 I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3555">TS</a>]
00:59:17 ◼ ► really understand how that could be but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3557">TS</a>]
00:59:21 ◼ ► Canadian if you were yes sure it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3561">TS</a>]
00:59:24 ◼ ► it's a very very good history of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3564">TS</a>]
00:59:26 ◼ ► creation of the mac which we have lots [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3566">TS</a>]
00:59:28 ◼ ► of great stories and then when you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3568">TS</a>]
00:59:29 ◼ ► done there you can also read full glory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3569">TS</a>]
00:59:31 ◼ ► dot-org which has got a bunch of stories [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3571">TS</a>]
00:59:33 ◼ ► about that same era by the people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3573">TS</a>]
00:59:35 ◼ ► worked on the original mac team and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3575">TS</a>]
00:59:37 ◼ ► got turned into a book that is called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3577">TS</a>]
00:59:41 ◼ ► what is it uh-oh it's called revolution [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3581">TS</a>]
00:59:45 ◼ ► in the valley which is a which is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3585">TS</a>]
00:59:47 ◼ ► version of that same that's a Herzfeld [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3587">TS</a>]
00:59:50 ◼ ► and company and their and their stories [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3590">TS</a>]
00:59:52 ◼ ► about inventing the max oh those are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3592">TS</a>]
00:59:53 ◼ ► those are fun books and I like crypto to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3593">TS</a>]
00:59:57 ◼ ► buy him which is a an early cryptography [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3597">TS</a>]
01:00:00 ◼ ► my true 2001 about how cryptography [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3600">TS</a>]
01:00:04 ◼ ► works by much one more thing or it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3604">TS</a>]
01:00:07 ◼ ► actually five were things haha also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3607">TS</a>]
01:00:10 ◼ ► alright so that the brief thing I'd say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3610">TS</a>]
01:00:12 ◼ ► is that it's interesting to see how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3612">TS</a>]
01:00:13 ◼ ► these kinds of books come out today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3613">TS</a>]
01:00:15 ◼ ► because you have books like hatching [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3615">TS</a>]
01:00:16 ◼ ► Twitter by nick bilton New York Times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3616">TS</a>]
01:00:22 ◼ ► Andersen's from few years back but that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3622">TS</a>]
01:00:23 ◼ ► lack the everything store by bradstone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3623">TS</a>]
01:00:25 ◼ ► get big fast was the first big amazon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3625">TS</a>]
01:00:29 ◼ ► book in 2002 and i'm in a couple of his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3629">TS</a>]
01:00:31 ◼ ► books I mean laughter I'm going but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3631">TS</a>]
01:00:34 ◼ ► the thing that's interesting at a known [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3634">TS</a>]
01:00:36 ◼ ► makers another Chris Andersen book that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3636">TS</a>]
01:00:37 ◼ ► I quite liked which is kind of about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3637">TS</a>]
01:00:39 ◼ ► maker movement before Chris wound up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3639">TS</a>]
01:00:40 ◼ ► having to his own life from being an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3640">TS</a>]
01:00:42 ◼ ► editor-in-chief of wire to being the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3642">TS</a>]
01:00:43 ◼ ► head of 3d robotics a drone making [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3643">TS</a>]
01:00:45 ◼ ► company which is a great story itself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3645">TS</a>]
01:00:47 ◼ ► and these modern books about it I feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3647">TS</a>]
01:00:53 ◼ ► involved makers is an exception but i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3653">TS</a>]
01:00:54 ◼ ► think these books are so much business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3654">TS</a>]
01:00:57 ◼ ► stuff going on everything is happening [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3657">TS</a>]
01:01:00 ◼ ► everything typically involves billions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3660">TS</a>]
01:01:02 ◼ ► of dollars for millions of items or a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3662">TS</a>]
01:01:04 ◼ ► trillions of Records I was talking to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3664">TS</a>]
01:01:05 ◼ ► accompany the day ago game company those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3665">TS</a>]
01:01:08 ◼ ► online the legal league-of-legends [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3668">TS</a>]
01:01:10 ◼ ► league-of-legends they literally don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3670">TS</a>]
01:01:12 ◼ ► know how much data they collect every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3672">TS</a>]
01:01:13 ◼ ► day it's so huge they have trillions of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3673">TS</a>]
01:01:15 ◼ ► data points toward databases and so the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3675">TS</a>]
01:01:20 ◼ ► humanity and you read stories and I feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3680">TS</a>]
01:01:22 ◼ ► like there's less humanity in them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3682">TS</a>]
01:01:24 ◼ ► because the the components have now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3684">TS</a>]
01:01:26 ◼ ► become so big and I want to read some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3686">TS</a>]
01:01:28 ◼ ► more narrative nonfiction that's more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3688">TS</a>]
01:01:30 ◼ ► like soul of a new machine that gets us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3690">TS</a>]
01:01:32 ◼ ► back to the heart of people what will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3692">TS</a>]
01:01:34 ◼ ► they what books will they write about us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3694">TS</a>]
01:01:35 ◼ ► they're probably already looks it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3695">TS</a>]
01:01:38 ◼ ► gonna be a series of tweets my storify [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3698">TS</a>]
01:01:40 ◼ ► is the greater is the response everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3700">TS</a>]
01:01:43 ◼ ► with a start-up thinks they're going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3703">TS</a>]
01:01:45 ◼ ► be the next big thing so they're already [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3705">TS</a>]
01:01:48 ◼ ► yeah well in some cases I've seen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3708">TS</a>]
01:01:50 ◼ ► startups do like commissioned a video [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3710">TS</a>]
01:01:52 ◼ ► documentary series about the creation of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3712">TS</a>]
01:01:54 ◼ ► their startup just to impress you with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3714">TS</a>]
01:01:58 ◼ ► I worked at once that made us assemble [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3718">TS</a>]
01:01:59 ◼ ► once every few months for recitation of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3719">TS</a>]
01:02:03 ◼ ► oh my gosh I just did a podcast episode [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3723">TS</a>]
01:02:05 ◼ ► of the internet history podcast which by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3725">TS</a>]
01:02:07 ◼ ► the way if you're interested in these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3727">TS</a>]
01:02:09 ◼ ► sorts of things at Brian McCullough has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3729">TS</a>]
01:02:11 ◼ ► the series was interviewing people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3731">TS</a>]
01:02:13 ◼ ► halt at the creation of stuff excuse me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3733">TS</a>]
01:02:16 ◼ ► and he's gotten some people who rarely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3736">TS</a>]
01:02:17 ◼ ► talk publicly and I don't think the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3737">TS</a>]
01:02:19 ◼ ► podcast has gotten this massive amount [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3739">TS</a>]
01:02:21 ◼ ► of attention like it's not like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3741">TS</a>]
01:02:23 ◼ ► million people are downloading it but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3743">TS</a>]
01:02:24 ◼ ► think his goal is to create a kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3744">TS</a>]
01:02:26 ◼ ► living history and there are people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3746">TS</a>]
01:02:27 ◼ ► have never heard interviewed before very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3747">TS</a>]
01:02:30 ◼ ► rarely that talk to him for you know 60 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3750">TS</a>]
01:02:32 ◼ ► minutes or an hour and a half a couple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3752">TS</a>]
01:02:33 ◼ ► hours and we just talk about this other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3753">TS</a>]
01:02:35 ◼ ► day about creation myths that amazon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3755">TS</a>]
01:02:37 ◼ ► since i was there not at the creation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3757">TS</a>]
01:02:38 ◼ ► but knew the people from the start until [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3758">TS</a>]
01:02:41 ◼ ► we know what I left in 97 and about all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3761">TS</a>]
01:02:43 ◼ ► this like the desk door and all those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3763">TS</a>]
01:02:44 ◼ ► things and we talked about all the stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3764">TS</a>]
01:02:48 ◼ ► there's even things that Amazon denies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3768">TS</a>]
01:02:50 ◼ ► would have said no it did not happen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3770">TS</a>]
01:02:51 ◼ ► that way and yet reporters still tell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3771">TS</a>]
01:02:53 ◼ ► the story even though they come to other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3773">TS</a>]
01:02:55 ◼ ► people outside like me who had confirmed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3775">TS</a>]
01:02:57 ◼ ► that no it did not actually happen that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3777">TS</a>]
01:02:59 ◼ ► well so i hope everybody out there has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3779">TS</a>]
01:03:01 ◼ ► enjoyed our car RRR commingling of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3781">TS</a>]
01:03:04 ◼ ► things we talked about it on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3784">TS</a>]
01:03:06 ◼ ► podcast and other other places where we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3786">TS</a>]
01:03:09 ◼ ► write in podcast technology and books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3789">TS</a>]
01:03:12 ◼ ► and stories and they all kind of go back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3792">TS</a>]
01:03:14 ◼ ► together so thank you Lisa speiser for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3794">TS</a>]
01:03:17 ◼ ► suggesting this is a topic I appreciate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3797">TS</a>]
01:03:20 ◼ ► well this is fun my pleasure I'll i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3800">TS</a>]
01:03:22 ◼ ► would like to thank our our our other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3802">TS</a>]
01:03:25 ◼ ► guests Glenn fleischmann thank you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3805">TS</a>]
01:03:27 ◼ ► delightful David Laura thank you very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3807">TS</a>]
01:03:29 ◼ ► much thank you I've been having a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3809">TS</a>]
01:03:32 ◼ ► wonderful chat over in the well we were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3812">TS</a>]
01:03:34 ◼ ► talking and and Monty Ashley you spend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3814">TS</a>]
01:03:38 ◼ ► your days of Microsoft but somehow don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3818">TS</a>]
01:03:41 ◼ ► so what's wrong with you there is a back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3821">TS</a>]
01:03:43 ◼ ► at my apartment it's just not mine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3823">TS</a>]
01:03:45 ◼ ► yeah okay okay well then we'll give [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3825">TS</a>]
01:03:48 ◼ ► douglas coupland will give you a pass [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3828">TS</a>]
01:03:49 ◼ ► for that and thanks everybody out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3829">TS</a>]
01:03:51 ◼ ► for listening this has been comfortable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMbNupd0/3831">TS</a>]