Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► *Bing*

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 57.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Lynda.com,

00:00:14 ◼   ► where you can instantly stream thousands of courses created by industry experts.

00:00:18 ◼   ► Stamps.com, posted on demand, and go to meeting.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Make it easy to meet with your team wherever you need to, wherever you are.

00:00:27 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by the wonderful Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Can you believe we've done 57 of these?

00:00:33 ◼   ► It's amazing.

00:00:34 ◼   ► It's amazing.

00:00:35 ◼   ► It's flying by my friend.

00:00:36 ◼   ► It is flying by.

00:00:37 ◼   ► You do an episode a week and they just, the numbers just keep on going and it's

00:00:41 ◼   ► just a couple of extras as well.

00:00:43 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true.

00:00:44 ◼   ► That's true.

00:00:46 ◼   ► Well, happy, happy Monday to you.

00:00:47 ◼   ► We recorded this on Monday and happy whatever day it is to you podcast

00:00:51 ◼   ► listeners when you're listening to this.

00:00:53 ◼   ► I always had that problem because the podcasts happen in this eternal

00:00:57 ◼   ► present that is any day or any time and so you can't say tonight or today if you

00:01:02 ◼   ► are listening during the day kind of thing. It's hard because podcasts could

00:01:07 ◼   ► be any time. They're unmoored from time and space.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Exactly. That's right but I'm glad that you're listening to this podcast now. So

00:01:17 ◼   ► I want to do a little bit of follow-up from last week if you remember I tried

00:01:21 ◼   ► my best to activate Ahoy! telephone on people and it didn't affect everyone as

00:01:27 ◼   ► we heard from many people over Twitter in both camps so some people I did

00:01:33 ◼   ► activate their Ahoy! telephone and some I did not and we heard from both from both

00:01:39 ◼   ► sides so basically all you know is that the training isn't as perfect as you

00:01:45 ◼   ► would maybe hope it would be and that it doesn't matter kind of who the person is

00:01:49 ◼   ► it can still activate the new Ahoy! telephone feature.

00:01:53 ◼   ► If you do not know what I'm talking about when I say Ahoy! telephone, it is to activate

00:01:57 ◼   ► the personal assistant in your phone whilst the screen is off, which can now happen in

00:02:01 ◼   ► the new S-phones.

00:02:03 ◼   ► But we say Ahoy!

00:02:04 ◼   ► telephone so we don't activate people's telephones.

00:02:07 ◼   ► But I had an instance for me where I was watching a TV show and it activated a couple of days

00:02:12 ◼   ► ago.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Somebody said, "Are you serious?" and it lit up.

00:02:16 ◼   ► But the funny thing about it is it was an American lady coming through my MacBook speakers.

00:02:22 ◼   ► So I think the training clearly needs work.

00:02:25 ◼   ► So this made me think, can you turn this feature off?

00:02:28 ◼   ► And yes you can.

00:02:29 ◼   ► If you go to settings general in Siri, you can turn off the new feature that's in iOS

00:02:33 ◼   ► 9 and the new S phones, which is what I have done.

00:02:37 ◼   ► Because I have my watch if I need to do the hands-free stuff and that makes way more sense

00:02:41 ◼   ► to me anyway.

00:02:43 ◼   ► makes sense to me too. And the training, I'm unclear on whether the training is just looking

00:02:49 ◼   ► at particular like tones of voice or frequency ranges or if it's doing something a little

00:02:54 ◼   ► more sophisticated. It does have you say a few different things but I'm still not convinced

00:02:57 ◼   ► that's doing anything other than trying to get you to speak with a natural tone. So it

00:03:03 ◼   ► sounds like it's better than it was perhaps but it's not locked on to your voice and no

00:03:09 ◼   ► whether voice will unlock that feature.

00:03:12 ◼   ► That doesn't seem to be the case.

00:03:14 ◼   ► I think that there is more that you can do, like for example if it maybe had you just

00:03:18 ◼   ► try and say more words than just that key phrase.

00:03:22 ◼   ► Because you'd think that gender and accent would be a real...

00:03:28 ◼   ► Like they're basically the two biggest defining characteristics of somebody's voice.

00:03:32 ◼   ► And the fact that it picked up the exact opposite to me was interesting.

00:03:38 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

00:03:42 ◼   ► There may be something about the way that it's listening to that it because the other

00:03:46 ◼   ► thing that would solve this is if you could set something to say, set a key phrase or

00:03:51 ◼   ► choose from a collection of key phrases, which is I think what Amazon does.

00:03:54 ◼   ► My guess is though that there are costs for all of that because it's obviously listening

00:03:58 ◼   ► for a certain pattern of sound with its low power mode, but it's still listening just

00:04:05 ◼   ► for that certain pattern.

00:04:07 ◼   ► so it might be harder to do it. It's a tricky problem, but the difficulty is, yeah, if it's

00:04:14 ◼   ► listening all the time and you're in lots of places where people are talking, that you're

00:04:18 ◼   ► going to get accidental activations.

00:04:22 ◼   ► Also to follow up on my iCloud problems, during the last episode and now, Apple has released

00:04:27 ◼   ► another point update. I don't know what these ones are actually called. What are these called?

00:04:33 ◼   ► Because point updates is like 9.1.

00:04:35 ◼   ► I don't know. Minor updates.

00:04:37 ◼   ► update, we'll go there, 9.0.2, which had a bunch of fixes. It didn't mention anything

00:04:44 ◼   ► about iCloud, but it has fixed my iCloud backup problems. So my phone is now backing up overnight

00:04:52 ◼   ► automatically. Now the thing is, I have some friends, because I've been talking to people

00:04:57 ◼   ► a lot about this who are having the same problem as me, and this did not fix it for them. Which

00:05:02 ◼   ► I think further goes to my point from last week in that something is broken

00:05:06 ◼   ► and it's a random set of things that can fix it for different people. Like you

00:05:11 ◼   ► know I was saying like it just needs that kick to reboot it and that did that

00:05:14 ◼   ► 9.0.2 did that for me but it still hasn't done it for everyone. I don't know

00:05:21 ◼   ► what Apple need to do here because it seems like there's a fix that they can't

00:05:25 ◼   ► put their finger on either. I'm hoping that 9.1 will be enough of a big change

00:05:31 ◼   ► for a lot of people that it does fix it but not being able to back up to iCloud

00:05:35 ◼   ► it's very frustrating. I agree it get you lose your safety net when when you you

00:05:42 ◼   ► aren't doing that when you can't rely on that. Yep and it's the reason I pay for

00:05:46 ◼   ► iCloud storage so right yeah yeah in a in a roundabout way I pay to back up my

00:05:53 ◼   ► phone. I guess this is why people don't upgrade right away is that you spend a

00:05:59 ◼   ► couple of weeks and Apple obviously spends a couple of weeks shaking all the little bugs

00:06:02 ◼   ► out. And they're inevitably, you know, so when, when I write reviews of stuff like this,

00:06:07 ◼   ► people are like, I can't believe you didn't mention this thing. And the answer is, well,

00:06:10 ◼   ► you know, what happens most of these things are things that don't happen every time they

00:06:14 ◼   ► happen to one person out of a thousand or one person out of 10,000. The problem is that,

00:06:20 ◼   ► you know, if you're, if you're only testing with a small group, relatively small group

00:06:23 ◼   ► of people, you may never find some of these quirks and then you roll it out to tens of

00:06:27 ◼   ► thousands and then you notice. Confidence has definitely been shook in the average

00:06:33 ◼   ► consumer about upgrading even though Apple's statistics are fantastic right? I

00:06:37 ◼   ► just know that from people that I've spoken to they get a bit nervous about

00:06:44 ◼   ► upgrading their devices now. Yeah I think IOS 7 really made a lot of iOS

00:06:49 ◼   ► users wary because that was a pretty traumatic update and changed the

00:06:54 ◼   ► you know, change the OS interface itself. And I think that has led to iOS users being

00:07:02 ◼   ► a little more reluctant to dive in.

00:07:04 ◼   ► - And was it eight that break people's phones? Or was it seven?

00:07:08 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:07:09 ◼   ► - I remember it was one of them that had... There was like a bad... There was some bad

00:07:12 ◼   ► code in the update.

00:07:13 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah. Well, that was in eight. In eight, there was the one that it... There was an

00:07:17 ◼   ► eight update that killed the cellular modem.

00:07:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, there you go. That was it. That's what I wanted to go about.

00:07:22 ◼   ► - Good times.

00:07:23 ◼   ► So it's like, you know, you keep doing these things and people are like, "Oh!"

00:07:28 ◼   ► And I feel for Apple because, I mean, the 7, the iOS 7 one, where they maybe could have

00:07:34 ◼   ► predicted it, they didn't necessarily know that people wouldn't like it, right?

00:07:39 ◼   ► But it's the issue of if people aren't tuned into your marketing message, they wake up

00:07:43 ◼   ► the next day and they basically have a different phone, right?

00:07:47 ◼   ► Because it looks nothing like the one from the day before.

00:07:50 ◼   ► the motivation of the vendors is interesting because in a lot of these cases, they don't

00:07:55 ◼   ► want you to not upgrade. They want you to upgrade and they don't care. They know that

00:08:00 ◼   ► some people are going to be fearing change and be reluctant to change, but they're highly

00:08:05 ◼   ► motivated to get everybody on the latest and greatest. And so they're not trying to make

00:08:13 ◼   ► life easy for people who are holding back from updating. They're not interested in that.

00:08:20 ◼   ► And the challenge is when you do something really traumatic, like with the iOS 7 interface

00:08:25 ◼   ► changes, that's pretty, yeah, that was pretty shocking.

00:08:29 ◼   ► And I think there was a lot of trust lost there because their phone changed overnight.

00:08:32 ◼   ► And I know I heard it from some of my relatives, like, you know, "There's a new update.

00:08:36 ◼   ► Is this going to change my phone again completely?"

00:08:38 ◼   ► Nope.

00:08:39 ◼   ► Just that one time.

00:08:40 ◼   ► But still, they remember.

00:08:42 ◼   ► >>It is one of those things, though, that I don't know how you solve that problem.

00:08:46 ◼   ► Like if it's what you want to do, like, I don't know if there's any other way to do

00:08:50 ◼   ► it but, you know, there are people smarter than me to look at these issues.

00:08:54 ◼   ► Let's do a bit of follow-up.

00:08:57 ◼   ► We haven't spoken about this yet and I know that a few people wanted us to.

00:08:59 ◼   ► It's all part of the conspiracy.

00:09:00 ◼   ► Yeah, it's all part of the conspiracy, the ever-running large conspiracy regarding peace

00:09:06 ◼   ► and ad blockers and Marco.

00:09:10 ◼   ► And there's been some really interesting discussion on ATP136 and on the talk show 132 about this

00:09:16 ◼   ► this. Obviously Marco was on both of those. And I know that, Jason, you wanted

00:09:23 ◼   ► to kind of talk about the fact that we're friends, right? Yeah, this is, I mean

00:09:32 ◼   ► I don't really want to spend a lot of time talking about ad blockers and

00:09:35 ◼   ► about the, I think it's a complicated issue. I think I may have said

00:09:41 ◼   ► this previously, you will end up just all feeling bad and not solving anything.

00:09:48 ◼   ► I'm gearing up for something, like I'm still chewing through my feelings and I think that

00:09:54 ◼   ► me and Grey are going to talk about this at some point, just because I think he's going

00:09:58 ◼   ► to have a different kind of view on this kind of stuff because he comes from somewhere else.

00:10:03 ◼   ► I would be interested to hear what he has to say. I think after we did the show last

00:10:06 ◼   ► week we talked about this a little so the people who were in the live chat listening

00:10:10 ◼   ► live stream heard it, but I did talk about ad blocking and more generally about how problematic

00:10:17 ◼   ► web ads are on the talk show in July, so that's episode 126 of the talk show. Gruber and I

00:10:24 ◼   ► talked about that for quite a bit and I think, you know, I recounted some of the things that

00:10:30 ◼   ► I witnessed working for a publishing company that was struggling with how you make money

00:10:35 ◼   ► on the web. And my feelings about ad blocking in general are--they're difficult, they're

00:10:42 ◼   ► problematic because I think that on one level it is wrong to take the content that's being

00:10:50 ◼   ► offered but not the things that ride along with them. On one level I think that's wrong.

00:10:57 ◼   ► On another level though I feel like the abuse of that connection and that trust has gone

00:11:05 ◼   ► totally out of control and and sort of taken the publishers don't have any ground to stand

00:11:10 ◼   ► on anymore about this because of how badly they've abused that if you could imagine getting a getting

00:11:15 ◼   ► a newspaper your daily newspaper suddenly I mean think back 10 years your daily newspaper

00:11:22 ◼   ► suddenly comes with a fake a fake front page that's all fake stories about an advertiser and

00:11:30 ◼   ► And when you open it up, there's like a thing that pops up and plays a sound until you close

00:11:37 ◼   ► that page.

00:11:38 ◼   ► And then somewhere else in there, they've inserted eight different cologne samples and

00:11:43 ◼   ► those are stinking up the newspaper.

00:11:46 ◼   ► And some of those were attempted in print.

00:11:49 ◼   ► And generally, it was very expensive and it turned out that the readers hated it.

00:11:54 ◼   ► I've got to say I saw Andy Baio tweet today about the front page of the LA Times and it

00:12:02 ◼   ► looks like a web page.

00:12:03 ◼   ► I put a link in the show notes and in the chat room.

00:12:06 ◼   ► It's kind of fun to see.

00:12:08 ◼   ► So the trend toward junk, I mean, it happens.

00:12:12 ◼   ► So I feel like it's a complicated issue and like I said I think in the end everybody just

00:12:16 ◼   ► feels bad because you want to find a way to support this.

00:12:20 ◼   ► This is one of the things that was, I think, almost inevitable when the entire model for

00:12:25 ◼   ► the web settled down to everything is free, or almost everything is free on the web and

00:12:30 ◼   ► it's all about traffic and ads to make money and not about people paying for stories. It

00:12:38 ◼   ► used to be you didn't get news unless you paid for it, and now we all get it for free

00:12:44 ◼   ► from a lot of different sources. So there's that issue. But that's actually not what I

00:12:47 ◼   ► wanted to talk about. What I wanted to talk about, at least briefly, is that I had that

00:12:50 ◼   ► moment listening to Marco talk about making the decision to pull Peace because he wasn't

00:12:55 ◼   ► comfortable and he decided he didn't want to be in the ad blocking industry. I don't

00:13:03 ◼   ► know, Myke, you and I were privy to--we saw a beta of Peace and we saw conversations about

00:13:12 ◼   ► piece a little bit in our Relay FM Slack channel. And I just had a couple of moments where I

00:13:20 ◼   ► felt like I asked myself, "Did I fail Marco by not trying to steer him away from this

00:13:27 ◼   ► idea that he decided was a bad idea?" Because I felt like we were all sort of supportive

00:13:32 ◼   ► of Marco. It's like, "Hey Marco, I can't believe you're doing this thing, but good for you."

00:13:38 ◼   ► And we tried to be sort of friendly and supportive.

00:13:41 ◼   ► And I just had that moment of thinking, you know, should we have been more skeptical?

00:13:46 ◼   ► Should we have been, you know, warned him, like, "Do you really want to get into this

00:13:51 ◼   ► or not?"

00:13:52 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:13:53 ◼   ► I just feel a little bit of guilt that I could have seen this coming and failed to say anything.

00:13:58 ◼   ► I didn't see it coming.

00:13:59 ◼   ► It's not like I saw it coming and decided I was going to let him, you know, go through

00:14:05 ◼   ► this.

00:14:06 ◼   ► had that moment of pause of like, you know, did I, could I have thought about this a little

00:14:13 ◼   ► bit more and sort of jumped out and said, "No, wait my arms. No, Margot, stop. No, think

00:14:18 ◼   ► about this some more." And I didn't do that.

00:14:20 ◼   ► See, I feel bad about it too now. And it kind of frustrates me looking back at it because

00:14:32 ◼   ► I have, I mean we've spoken about it on this show in the past, like I have very complex feelings

00:14:39 ◼   ► towards ad blocking and I don't really know where I fall on it. So I should have been able to

00:14:47 ◼   ► transplant that feeling onto the idea to say "Marco this could be trouble" but for some reason

00:14:56 ◼   ► it never crossed my mind. I was using it, trying it out, I was like "this is really cool" was my

00:15:02 ◼   ► thinking. Right? And just like, "Wow, look how fast the pages load!" I was purely

00:15:07 ◼   ► focused on the technical, and this is exactly what Marco was saying, and I

00:15:11 ◼   ► think it might be difficult for people to hear that and believe it. Right, like

00:15:15 ◼   ► he was talking about this on ATP, but I was like nodding along because I was

00:15:20 ◼   ► like, "Yeah, I saw it too, and it never... I didn't connect the dots between the two

00:15:26 ◼   ► things." Because it just felt like, "Hey, this is a technical achievement. He has

00:15:30 ◼   ► created a thing that really works well and I really think it's because I don't

00:15:39 ◼   ► have skin in this exact game I think that was why I didn't think about it

00:15:45 ◼   ► because there's nothing to block on Relay there's nothing there I mean some

00:15:51 ◼   ► some desktop ad blockers do actually block our this episode was sponsored by

00:15:56 ◼   ► Box because every now and then I get an email from someone saying you should put

00:16:00 ◼   ► sponsors on the page I'm like hey you should turn off your ad blocker and I

00:16:05 ◼   ► checked that it was one of the first things I checked when I install pieces

00:16:08 ◼   ► to our sponsor blocks load on the on the show pages and they did and I was

00:16:11 ◼   ► like great that works and so I didn't ever really think about the you are

00:16:16 ◼   ► entering into a war of ideals here and it's interesting to look at it now and

00:16:22 ◼   ► be like well yeah of course he was and it's funny how we all kind of came to

00:16:27 ◼   ► that thinking afterwards rather than before?

00:16:33 ◼   ► >>TIM CHANIN-POMERANZ It's a story that's been told many times,

00:16:35 ◼   ► which is the, you know, I think most probably most notably in the Manhattan Project, but

00:16:43 ◼   ► it's the story of scientists and there and and but it goes for all technology, which

00:16:51 ◼   ► is there's the enthusiasm about learning something new and creating something new. And then there

00:16:55 ◼   ► there is the thought about the application of it. And those are always in conflict, or

00:17:01 ◼   ► often in conflict anyway, where you've got the, as the line from one of my favorite TV

00:17:05 ◼   ► shows said, I mean, I only build the bomb, I don't drop it, right? Like, it doesn't,

00:17:10 ◼   ► I'm completely disconnected from the effects of the thing that I've built. I'm just focused

00:17:15 ◼   ► on the building. And I think history is full of examples of people enthusiastic about building

00:17:20 ◼   ► new things without necessarily thinking through all the horrible uses that would come to them.

00:17:25 ◼   ► And so, you know, I think that we were guilty in some ways of not shifting our frame of

00:17:32 ◼   ► reference from this person we know who we're in this sort of private conversation with

00:17:38 ◼   ► having worked on something new and trying it out and saying, "Yeah, it really does

00:17:43 ◼   ► work, and I noticed this about it," and not taking that step back and saying, "What's

00:17:49 ◼   ► going to happen when this all goes down, and where does it lead?" and thinking about

00:17:53 ◼   ► that, and I'm not saying that making an ad blocker is immoral, but I'm saying that it

00:17:58 ◼   ► is controversial enough that when you pull back from the idea of "this is a cool thing

00:18:04 ◼   ► that you built," you then start to have that realization of what's going to happen. I think

00:18:10 ◼   ► we could have seen it coming, and that's all I wanted to bring up. There's no answer here

00:18:15 ◼   ► other than I feel bad that Marco had to go through it. I totally understand how it happened,

00:18:21 ◼   ► which is that he realized that, first off, he's a smart businessman. I have to say that.

00:18:26 ◼   ► He saw an opportunity here. As a programmer, he thought, "Oh, content blockers on OS 9

00:18:32 ◼   ► are going to be a big thing. Let's do something there." And he did something there, and he

00:18:36 ◼   ► built it. And he did that because of his interest in learning about this technology, in supporting

00:18:42 ◼   ► new Apple technologies, and because he assumed, I think, more than—and he talked about this

00:18:47 ◼   ► on ATP and I think the talk show, he assumed there'd be 20 of them, right? And there weren't.

00:18:57 ◼   ► Surprisingly only a handful of them at launch. And that was the stuff that was driving him,

00:19:03 ◼   ► was I could build this, I could make a deal with Ghostery, I could learn what the different

00:19:07 ◼   ► formats are and I could implement this new thing from Apple. And that was what was driving

00:19:13 ◼   ► it. And it was only afterward that he realized, "Oh, I'm going to get all the people in the

00:19:19 ◼   ► media business angry at me, and I'm looking now at a future where I'm going to have to

00:19:24 ◼   ► maintain this thing, and now I'm part of the ad block industry, which is kind of a gross

00:19:28 ◼   ► industry." And he didn't want to be a part of it. So ultimately, I feel bad that he went

00:19:34 ◼   ► through it and that he didn't stop earlier and say, "Oh, this is not a good idea. I shouldn't

00:19:38 ◼   ► release this. And like I said, I feel at least a little residual guilt that I didn't at least

00:19:48 ◼   ► have enough perspective to say, "Are you sure you want to do this?" And I'm not saying that,

00:19:53 ◼   ► you know, like I said, I didn't know this was going to happen and say, "Well, we'll

00:19:56 ◼   ► see. Let's watch what Marco does now." It was like, I didn't think of it and I wish

00:20:00 ◼   ► I had. Yeah. Definitely. All right, let's take a break and get into, we have a real

00:20:06 ◼   ► selection of topics today. Lots of little things going on.

00:20:09 ◼   ► Oh yeah, big menu.

00:20:10 ◼   ► This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by lynda.com, the online learning platform

00:20:15 ◼   ► that has over 3000 on-demand video courses to help you strengthen your business, technology

00:20:20 ◼   ► and creative skills. For a free 10-day trial, visit lynda.com/upgrade. That's L-Y-N-D-A

00:20:26 ◼   ► dot com slash upgrade. lynda.com is for people that want to solve problems in their life.

00:20:31 ◼   ► It's for people that are curious to learn new things or for people who just want to

00:20:34 ◼   ► make things happen. Like let's say you want to get a promotion at work or you

00:20:38 ◼   ► want to learn a skill to undertake a side business that you've always been

00:20:42 ◼   ► interested in. This is the type of stuff that you can do at lynda.com because

00:20:45 ◼   ► they have courses on everything. So let's say you start that side business and you

00:20:48 ◼   ► need to understand about how taxes work, right? You can take courses about that

00:20:52 ◼   ► at lynda.com. Maybe you want to learn GTD so you can really knuckle down and get

00:20:56 ◼   ► through those big projects that you're working on. They have courses taught by

00:20:59 ◼   ► David Allen, the creator of GTD himself. They have courses on Excel, going

00:21:04 ◼   ► paperless. They have courses on iOS app development, Android app development, Mac

00:21:07 ◼   ► development, the whole shebang. Lynda.com has everything to feed your curious mind.

00:21:13 ◼   ► You'll be able to watch videos that are created by experts, people who are

00:21:16 ◼   ► passionate about teaching and who break these courses down into bite-sized

00:21:20 ◼   ► pieces that you can consume how you want in whatever order you want in whatever

00:21:25 ◼   ► way you want. You can stream them on your laptop and they have these great

00:21:28 ◼   ► transcripts that you can follow along and click to an answer to skip to a

00:21:32 ◼   ► point in the video I actually had this I'm putting together a presentation and

00:21:36 ◼   ► I did for some reason in keynote I couldn't work out how to animate a

00:21:41 ◼   ► bulleted list I just couldn't all it was doing was just animating the whole list

00:21:45 ◼   ► and I went to lynda.com I searched a keynote and I searched bullets and I was

00:21:50 ◼   ► able to go to the transcript of this video about animations I clicked the

00:21:53 ◼   ► word bullet and it went straight to the video and the guy told me that all I

00:21:56 ◼   ► needed to do was to animate by character or whatever it was you have to break to

00:22:00 ◼   ► a couple of drop downs and I got it to work and I was very happy and lynda.com saved me

00:22:05 ◼   ► because otherwise my presentation would have lacked the real animation that it needs.

00:22:10 ◼   ► So you'll also be able to create and save playlists of the courses that you want and

00:22:13 ◼   ► you can share them with the people in your life maybe if they need to learn how to do

00:22:16 ◼   ► bullet points in Keynote 2.

00:22:18 ◼   ► Your lynda.com membership is going to give you unlimited access to training on hundreds

00:22:22 ◼   ► of topics for one flat rate.

00:22:23 ◼   ► Whether you're looking to become an industry expert, you're passionate about a hobby or

00:22:27 ◼   ► you're just interested in learning something new.

00:22:29 ◼   ► I would love it if you would visit lynda.com/upgrade, sign up for your free 10 day trial and help

00:22:34 ◼   ► support this show.

00:22:36 ◼   ► Once again that is lynda.com/upgrade.

00:22:40 ◼   ► Thank you so much lynda.com for the continued support of Upgrade and Relay FM.

00:22:46 ◼   ► So OS X El Capitan came out in between the two shows that we've recorded.

00:22:53 ◼   ► I'm running El Capitan on my Mac Pro right now.

00:22:57 ◼   ► It has not fixed the issues I was having with my Mac Pro, which is for anybody that hasn't

00:23:03 ◼   ► followed the chain.

00:23:04 ◼   ► I have an issue with my Mac Pro wherein it sometimes just freezes.

00:23:11 ◼   ► All of the UI locks up.

00:23:13 ◼   ► I can still have podcast conversations, Skype still works, and in some apps audio recording

00:23:20 ◼   ► still works.

00:23:21 ◼   ► It's a whole big thing, which is so much to say this is why I will be buying a new iMac

00:23:27 ◼   ► as soon as they are revved, which I'm hoping should be soon-ish.

00:23:30 ◼   ► I hope so.

00:23:31 ◼   ► I priced one out today.

00:23:32 ◼   ► Oh, well that's never a good sign.

00:23:35 ◼   ► I'm going to be buying a monster, Jason.

00:23:38 ◼   ► I'm looking at currently, as it stands, 4 gigahertz quad-core i7, 16 gigabytes of RAM,

00:23:47 ◼   ► 1 terabyte of flash storage.

00:23:50 ◼   ► Are you anticipating getting an updated 5K?

00:23:54 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm getting the 5K, yep.

00:23:56 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:23:58 ◼   ► Boy, that's gonna be a sad--

00:23:59 ◼   ► That day is coming soon, I'm sure,

00:24:01 ◼   ► where my precious 5K iMac here will be last year's model.

00:24:05 ◼   ► I mean, technically it is last year's model,

00:24:07 ◼   ► but it hasn't been eclipsed yet.

00:24:08 ◼   ► But it's--well, yeah, I mean,

00:24:10 ◼   ► they've re-bundled some stuff and all that,

00:24:12 ◼   ► but my precious, my precious model.

00:24:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm gonna be going the whole way,

00:24:15 ◼   ► 'cause I'll be able to sell my Mac Pro

00:24:17 ◼   ► for about two-thirds of the cost.

00:24:18 ◼   ► Dare I say #JasonWasRight?

00:24:21 ◼   ► [laughs]

00:24:22 ◼   ► Well, no, you see--

00:24:23 ◼   ► Come on, give this to me.

00:24:24 ◼   ► Give this to me!

00:24:25 ◼   ► No, because people say this, right, because they said, "Oh, you should get an iMac, you

00:24:28 ◼   ► should get an iMac at the time."

00:24:29 ◼   ► But at that time, I only had the space for one monitor in the office where I work, and

00:24:36 ◼   ► I needed to have something that could also have games consoles plugged into.

00:24:42 ◼   ► So that was why I had to go with a machine.

00:24:44 ◼   ► That was one of the primary reasons.

00:24:45 ◼   ► But now I have a whole different setup.

00:24:47 ◼   ► I have a lovely TV here that my PS4 and Xbox and Wii are plugged into.

00:24:51 ◼   ► And so now I'm going to go for the iMac because I want that big Retina display as well as

00:24:55 ◼   ► all the power now.

00:24:57 ◼   ► All right.

00:24:59 ◼   ► I'll allow it.

00:25:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm sorry.

00:25:03 ◼   ► You'll get a Jason was right in soon enough.

00:25:05 ◼   ► Maybe before the end of this episode.

00:25:06 ◼   ► You're just copying me.

00:25:07 ◼   ► Yeah, that's it.

00:25:08 ◼   ► I just want that Jason Snell experience.

00:25:11 ◼   ► Yeah, the full Snell Zone experience.

00:25:14 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:25:16 ◼   ► So El Capitan, what you're saying is your solution updating to El Capitan isn't going

00:25:23 ◼   ► to do it, so instead you're just going to buy a whole new computer.

00:25:26 ◼   ► Yes.

00:25:27 ◼   ► I'm sorry, I had hoped that maybe just whatever that problem is that it would be solved in

00:25:32 ◼   ► El Capitan, but...

00:25:33 ◼   ► This isn't a thing to be sorry about.

00:25:35 ◼   ► I'm going to be getting a nicer computer.

00:25:37 ◼   ► Sure.

00:25:38 ◼   ► You know, there was a part of me that was hoping that this wouldn't fix the problem.

00:25:43 ◼   ► Well then congratulations, I'm glad your bug did not get fixed in El Capitan.

00:25:48 ◼   ► Whatever it is, whatever strange OS bug it is that it does that, that's just such a weird

00:25:54 ◼   ► thing.

00:25:55 ◼   ► Yeah, so El Capitan came out.

00:25:58 ◼   ► That's what we're saying.

00:25:59 ◼   ► El Capitan is out.

00:26:01 ◼   ► I'm hoping you will have more to say about El Capitan than I do.

00:26:05 ◼   ► Like I don't have a ton to say.

00:26:06 ◼   ► I like the split screen and I like the overall enhancement submission control because I really

00:26:12 ◼   ► do work in my Mac in Mission Control?"

00:26:14 ◼   ► Well, I mean, I think that's one of the unheralded improvements is that I really like what they

00:26:20 ◼   ► did to Mission Control.

00:26:21 ◼   ► The fact that all of your windows now appear when you activate Mission Control instead

00:26:30 ◼   ► of stacking all the windows from an app together, which was kind of annoying if you work heavily

00:26:36 ◼   ► in some specific apps.

00:26:39 ◼   ► And I really like that they've got the geography thing going on where it's much easier to find

00:26:45 ◼   ► windows in Mission Control because they don't go too far away.

00:26:48 ◼   ► They sort of stay roughly where they were.

00:26:52 ◼   ► So you know like it was over on the left somewhere and you look and you can find it.

00:26:56 ◼   ► I think they did a good job with all of that and you can drag more things up into the Mission

00:27:01 ◼   ► Control bar now.

00:27:02 ◼   ► I like that you can send them out full screen by just dragging it up there.

00:27:06 ◼   ► Yeah, you just grab the window and toss it up there and it's full screen.

00:27:09 ◼   ► And the split screen stuff is really good. So talking about that presentation

00:27:12 ◼   ► that I'm working on, see I'm working on 25 inch monitor here. So I have keynote

00:27:17 ◼   ► open, effectively it's full in size and I also have the Notes app

00:27:22 ◼   ► pinned to the side because I've written my outline for my presentation

00:27:26 ◼   ► in the Notes app and then I'm transferring some into my speaker notes

00:27:30 ◼   ► and using it to help me go through the presentation and add slides in and stuff

00:27:35 ◼   ► like that so the split screen is fantastic for that I wish there was a

00:27:40 ◼   ► more elegant way to bring apps out of full screen currently going up to the

00:27:45 ◼   ► menu bar and hitting the green well what used to be the green button or whatever

00:27:49 ◼   ► it is now it's a really inelegant solution so do you know the other the

00:27:54 ◼   ► other way to do it is in mission control you can actually if you go to the the

00:27:59 ◼   ► the space that is your split screen uh-huh instead of having the X to get rid

00:28:04 ◼   ► of the space, it has this little icon that's like,

00:28:07 ◼   ► it basically means blow apart.

00:28:09 ◼   ► And if you click it, the two, both of the windows

00:28:12 ◼   ► go back into regular mode.

00:28:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, see that's-- - So that is a way

00:28:16 ◼   ► to do it faster, but-- - That doesn't feel right

00:28:17 ◼   ► to me. - But you should have

00:28:19 ◼   ► a keyboard shortcut on that green button, I think.

00:28:23 ◼   ► Or the green button should just pull both of the apps out.

00:28:25 ◼   ► I think this is one of those cases where

00:28:27 ◼   ► the fact is Split View is just full screen mode

00:28:30 ◼   ► with two apps in it.

00:28:31 ◼   ► and they both think they're in full screen mode

00:28:34 ◼   ► on a monitor that's narrower.

00:28:36 ◼   ► - My ideal way of doing this is if you have two apps

00:28:40 ◼   ► in split screen and you go into mission control,

00:28:42 ◼   ► it shows you those two sort of broken out

00:28:46 ◼   ► and then you can move them individually.

00:28:48 ◼   ► - That'd be nice.

00:28:49 ◼   ► - Right?

00:28:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's just, it's not,

00:28:52 ◼   ► this is one of those features

00:28:53 ◼   ► that will get refined over time, I think.

00:28:55 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:28:55 ◼   ► - But in this first version, it's a little bit of a hack.

00:28:57 ◼   ► It is two apps in full screen mode,

00:29:00 ◼   ► but running side by side.

00:29:01 ◼   ► They don't really know about each other.

00:29:03 ◼   ► I have some issues with the fact that apps don't,

00:29:06 ◼   ► so many apps are not written to assume

00:29:08 ◼   ► that if they're in full screen mode,

00:29:09 ◼   ► they might be sharing space with another app.

00:29:11 ◼   ► And so they don't often indicate whether they're active

00:29:14 ◼   ► or not, and that's problematic because, you know,

00:29:17 ◼   ► you can only type in the one that's active.

00:29:18 ◼   ► And in some cases, things like scrolling or pinching

00:29:20 ◼   ► and zooming are limited based on whether the app

00:29:23 ◼   ► is front most or not.

00:29:24 ◼   ► In full screen mode, there's no concept

00:29:26 ◼   ► of front most kind of.

00:29:28 ◼   ► it's, they're gonna work this stuff out.

00:29:30 ◼   ► But I agree with you, it is, you should be able,

00:29:34 ◼   ► right now if you click that green button,

00:29:36 ◼   ► one app goes back into the desktop

00:29:40 ◼   ► and the other one stays full screen,

00:29:43 ◼   ► which I'm not sure should be the default behavior,

00:29:47 ◼   ► but at the very least it would, you know,

00:29:49 ◼   ► it would be nice if there was a very quick way

00:29:52 ◼   ► to do that, to uncouple them both

00:29:56 ◼   ► and send them back to their respective spaces rather than having to click one and then go

00:30:00 ◼   ► swipe back to the other one and click it too.

00:30:03 ◼   ► And right now the fastest—there is a shortcut to do that, but it's to go to Mission Control

00:30:07 ◼   ► and blow up the little space that they share with the little icon in the corner of the

00:30:16 ◼   ► icon at the top of the screen in the Mission Control bar.

00:30:19 ◼   ► Not ideal.

00:30:20 ◼   ► you've spent more time thinking and reviewing, naturally, OS X than I have.

00:30:28 ◼   ► Are there any other features of El Capitan that excite you or that interest you?

00:30:35 ◼   ► I mean, for example, if there's anything good in Safari, I don't know what it is, because

00:30:39 ◼   ► I'm using Chrome, like a gentleman.

00:30:41 ◼   ► Well, Pinsights.

00:30:42 ◼   ► like pen sites okay which is like mega favorites instead the because I use the

00:30:56 ◼   ► bookmarks bar or the favorites bar or whatever they call it now and and it's

00:31:01 ◼   ► the favorites bar and I've got a bunch of stuff up in there but the the pen

00:31:06 ◼   ► sites is these little these little tiny tabs they live within the tab bar and

00:31:12 ◼   ► and they have an icon if the site has given an icon.

00:31:17 ◼   ► Although I found in Safari that the icons sort of come and go

00:31:21 ◼   ► don't really know why.

00:31:22 ◼   ► Sometimes they're there, sometimes they aren't there,

00:31:25 ◼   ► but you can pin those sites and they stay there

00:31:28 ◼   ► and they're in every window.

00:31:29 ◼   ► And so if you've got sites that you visit a lot,

00:31:31 ◼   ► you can just pin them and then they're always available.

00:31:33 ◼   ► They're a keystroke away.

00:31:35 ◼   ► It tries to keep them up to date.

00:31:37 ◼   ► So they're preloaded.

00:31:38 ◼   ► If you click on a link that's in the pin site,

00:31:41 ◼   ► it stays in the pin site, but if you click on an offside link rather than closing your

00:31:45 ◼   ► pin site and opening that link in the same window, it just flips you to a new tab, and

00:31:53 ◼   ► the place you left on your favorite site is still there.

00:31:56 ◼   ► So there's some nice things about that that I think it's kind of cool.

00:32:01 ◼   ► And I think Safari, oh, that changes the keyboard shortcut behavior, which is kind of annoying

00:32:07 ◼   ► if you're somebody who did get used to the keyboard shortcuts of the bookmark bar.

00:32:11 ◼   ► And then there's the audio muting feature, which is nice, which is your auto-play video

00:32:15 ◼   ► feature.

00:32:16 ◼   ► If you've got a tab that suddenly starts making noise, and people who have lots of tabs open,

00:32:21 ◼   ► this happens a lot, you can mute your browser tab if it's playing in that window.

00:32:27 ◼   ► You can also mute all the others and just say, "Wherever that thing is playing, I don't

00:32:32 ◼   ► want to hear it."

00:32:33 ◼   ► And that's a nice feature.

00:32:36 ◼   ► So there's some stuff in there.

00:32:38 ◼   ► Notes got big improvements that sync up with the iOS 9 improvements.

00:32:41 ◼   ► I should have mentioned notes because it's one of my favorite apps now.

00:32:45 ◼   ► Just flat out.

00:32:47 ◼   ► All those features that use the iCloud, first off it's the iCloud syncing so you don't have

00:32:51 ◼   ► to just use IMAP email boxes for your notes.

00:32:54 ◼   ► They actually sync with iCloud now and iCloud.

00:32:59 ◼   ► iCloud notes get all these other features where there's like more like check boxes and

00:33:03 ◼   ► you can do sketches with on iOS and you can view those on the Mac, although you can't

00:33:07 ◼   ► create them.

00:33:10 ◼   ► You know, it's a, I think like in my review on Macworld, I liken this to putting a better

00:33:17 ◼   ► selfie camera on an iPhone and putting a camera on the iPad is one of those things that maybe

00:33:22 ◼   ► Apple when they were building these products didn't expect it to be as popular a behavior

00:33:27 ◼   ► as it turned out to be.

00:33:28 ◼   ► And once you realize that it's popular, you say, well, we should probably make it better

00:33:32 ◼   ► then if it's going to be popular people

00:33:34 ◼   ► going to use it we should make it better

00:33:35 ◼   ► and I feel like that's what happened

00:33:36 ◼   ► with notes is they realize that

00:33:38 ◼   ► everybody uses notes for something

00:33:39 ◼   ► because it's pre-installed it's super

00:33:41 ◼   ► easy to get to it may not be the

00:33:43 ◼   ► greatest thing in the world yes there

00:33:44 ◼   ► are competitors that do a better job but

00:33:45 ◼   ► it's still crazy popular so let's make

00:33:48 ◼   ► it better and so they did and so it's

00:33:50 ◼   ► better across iOS and and OS 10 and I

00:33:54 ◼   ► think they did a good job and I'm glad

00:33:55 ◼   ► they finally put in the effort to not

00:33:57 ◼   ► make it like use your email boxes in

00:33:59 ◼   ► order to do notes because that was dumb

00:34:01 ◼   ► It was a hack that lasted for like eight years.

00:34:04 ◼   ► I don't know how that managed, but it's done now and it's very easy to migrate to.

00:34:10 ◼   ► You can actually just select your notes and drag them into iCloud and they move over to

00:34:14 ◼   ► iCloud and it's fine.

00:34:16 ◼   ► You can set up folders for your notes and, you know, they did a very good job, I think,

00:34:20 ◼   ► with updating notes.

00:34:23 ◼   ► And photos, since I'm the author of Photos for Mac, a take control crash course, a book

00:34:29 ◼   ► book available, an e-book available for download now. I pay very close attention to the Photos

00:34:35 ◼   ► app because I wrote a whole book about it and now that there's an update to Photos version

00:34:41 ◼   ► 1.1 that comes with El Capitan, I wanted to go through that and find all the new features

00:34:48 ◼   ► there because I'm going to have to update my book. It will be a free update but I'm

00:34:52 ◼   ► gonna update my book for for 1.1 and and there are a few they knocked off the

00:34:58 ◼   ► the biggest feature requests keeping in mind photos for Mac only came out in the

00:35:02 ◼   ► spring they haven't had a whole year to update it so it's a it's not a 2.0 it's a

00:35:07 ◼   ► 1.1 but like the top complaint of users of photos was that you couldn't geotag

00:35:13 ◼   ► photos in the app you couldn't edit geo data and you couldn't add geo data to

00:35:17 ◼   ► photos that didn't have it embedded in it, like taken from an SLR or something, some

00:35:23 ◼   ► other device that doesn't have location information.

00:35:26 ◼   ► And you can now.

00:35:27 ◼   ► It uses the same maps database that everything else does by default, the Apple Maps database.

00:35:34 ◼   ► But I selected a whole bunch of pictures that I took 10 years ago that aren't geotagged,

00:35:40 ◼   ► and I was able to select them all and choose Command-I to bring up the info pane and enter

00:35:45 ◼   ► in the name of the location where we were and hit return and boom they were

00:35:47 ◼   ► all geotagged and it automatically syncs over iCloud so if I search later for

00:35:52 ◼   ► pictures from Seattle those pictures that I tagged are now going to show up

00:35:56 ◼   ► so that was a it should have you know it should have been there but it wasn't

00:36:00 ◼   ► batch batch geotagging individual geotagging batch changing of titles and

00:36:04 ◼   ► descriptions and keywords that's all in there now so you know and the other

00:36:08 ◼   ► thing is extensions I actually wrote about this on on six colors you can now

00:36:11 ◼   ► app developers can write extensions that work in photos, editing extensions,

00:36:17 ◼   ► similar to the concept of photo editing extensions on iOS, which there haven't

00:36:22 ◼   ► been a lot of, but I've counted like four or five that are in the Mac App Store

00:36:27 ◼   ► right now that will let you...

00:36:28 ◼   ► Still waiting on that VSCO one that they demoed on stage.

00:36:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:35 ◼   ► With iOS 8 or whatever it was.

00:36:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, that didn't get a lot of pickup, did it?

00:36:41 ◼   ► But I tried a few from Mac Fun, from B-Funky,

00:36:46 ◼   ► and Pixelmator's got one that's coming out

00:36:48 ◼   ► with an update to Pixelmator.

00:36:50 ◼   ► And, you know, we'll see how the developer

00:36:54 ◼   ► adoption goes of this.

00:36:56 ◼   ► And the idea is that third parties can add things.

00:36:59 ◼   ► Like, there are some filters that are black and white

00:37:01 ◼   ► filters inside photos, but Tonality from Mac Fun,

00:37:05 ◼   ► which is like an $18 app.

00:37:07 ◼   ► And it's funny because as an app, it is just like a blank.

00:37:10 ◼   ► You know, you open a picture and it brings up an interface

00:37:13 ◼   ► and you make changes and it creates a, you know,

00:37:16 ◼   ► a really nice, usually like black and white image

00:37:19 ◼   ► and you press okay and it saves it out.

00:37:21 ◼   ► It's not much of an app.

00:37:22 ◼   ► And it actually makes sense as an extension inside

00:37:26 ◼   ► of photos because then you're editing a photo

00:37:29 ◼   ► and then you get to the point where you wanna run it

00:37:31 ◼   ► through this third party extension and you can do that.

00:37:36 ◼   ► and then you save it and you never left photos.

00:37:39 ◼   ► You just use the functionality of that inside of photos.

00:37:42 ◼   ► So that got added.

00:37:44 ◼   ► We'll see if it's a curiosity

00:37:45 ◼   ► or if it becomes more valuable.

00:37:47 ◼   ► I think that one of the nice things about it is

00:37:50 ◼   ► it lets people who have pet features

00:37:52 ◼   ► that there's some subculture of people,

00:37:54 ◼   ► some subsection that really, really wants this feature,

00:37:57 ◼   ► but it's never gonna be enough for Apple to add it.

00:37:59 ◼   ► Now somebody can develop an extension that does it

00:38:02 ◼   ► and it'll work inside the photos

00:38:04 ◼   ► and Apple doesn't have to go down that path.

00:38:07 ◼   ► So that's beyond that.

00:38:11 ◼   ► I mean, El Capitan is where it's compatible with everything.

00:38:15 ◼   ► I believe they haven't reduced compatibility

00:38:19 ◼   ► for an OS release since Mountain Lion.

00:38:24 ◼   ► I think all the same systems run Mountain Lion,

00:38:28 ◼   ► Maverick, Yosemite and El Capitan.

00:38:31 ◼   ► They haven't, not all the features work,

00:38:34 ◼   ► But Apple very much wants everybody.

00:38:36 ◼   ► And in fact, you can upgrade from as long,

00:38:38 ◼   ► if you've got a compatible system

00:38:39 ◼   ► from as far back as Snow Leopard,

00:38:41 ◼   ► you can upgrade directly to El Capitan.

00:38:44 ◼   ► - That's good.

00:38:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, Apple wants everybody on the current version.

00:38:49 ◼   ► And that's where all the biggest security updates are.

00:38:53 ◼   ► And that's part of the reasoning for doing it this way,

00:38:57 ◼   ► is they want everybody on this version.

00:38:59 ◼   ► They want, that way,

00:39:03 ◼   ► they're not spending all their time maintaining Windows XP, right?

00:39:06 ◼   ► They're like, "Look, if you've got any computer that we've sold,

00:39:09 ◼   ► almost any computer we've sold in the last six years,

00:39:12 ◼   ► you can just run El Capitan and you'll get all the updates."

00:39:15 ◼   ► So, I think that's interesting.

00:39:18 ◼   ► It's free, it's a download,

00:39:20 ◼   ► and it works with pretty much any computer

00:39:24 ◼   ► from the last five years.

00:39:25 ◼   ► - Anything else, El Capitan?

00:39:28 ◼   ► - I don't know, I feel like I've got it all there.

00:39:32 ◼   ► That's, it's free.

00:39:34 ◼   ► It's been solid for me.

00:39:36 ◼   ► I think people should, yeah,

00:39:42 ◼   ► I think you should give it a try.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Again, we just talked about,

00:39:45 ◼   ► if you wanna wait a couple of weeks

00:39:47 ◼   ► to see if issues get shaken out, then do so.

00:39:51 ◼   ► And then I guess the other thing I would say is,

00:39:53 ◼   ► if there are apps that you rely on day to day

00:39:55 ◼   ► to do your job, go check and see if they are okay

00:39:59 ◼   ► in El Capitan, 'cause if they're not, don't upgrade.

00:40:01 ◼   ► That's like rule one, is if there's stuff that you rely on

00:40:05 ◼   ► that doesn't work with it, 'cause I heard from somebody

00:40:07 ◼   ► who said, "Oh, I upgraded to El Capitan,

00:40:08 ◼   ► it turns out that these two programs that I use

00:40:10 ◼   ► that I totally rely on that are like five years old

00:40:13 ◼   ► don't work in El Capitan without installing

00:40:14 ◼   ► all of these extra things."

00:40:16 ◼   ► And it was a disaster, so I went back to Yosemite.

00:40:18 ◼   ► I'm like, "Well, yeah, I think if you were relying

00:40:23 ◼   ► on especially old software, check out to Google around

00:40:26 ◼   ► a little bit, see if there are issues,

00:40:28 ◼   ► because that can be a problem.

00:40:32 ◼   ► I didn't have any issues like that

00:40:34 ◼   ► because I'm using mostly recent software.

00:40:37 ◼   ► Like an app that many podcasts use,

00:40:40 ◼   ► the Levelator apparently broke in El Capitan,

00:40:42 ◼   ► although Tidbits posted an article about

00:40:44 ◼   ► there is a way to fix it.

00:40:47 ◼   ► It's an unsupported app from a company that no longer exists

00:40:52 ◼   ► but people are trying to keep it alive.

00:40:55 ◼   ► But with the exceptions of

00:40:57 ◼   ► if you've got a mission critical app

00:40:58 ◼   ► that just won't work in it, I'd say,

00:41:00 ◼   ► otherwise it's a pretty smooth update.

00:41:02 ◼   ► I thought it's almost routine.

00:41:05 ◼   ► And that's a good thing that Apple is trying to make this

00:41:09 ◼   ► as smooth and routine as possible

00:41:11 ◼   ► and not have these upgrades seem upsetting to people.

00:41:16 ◼   ► And I think they did a pretty good job with El Capitan.

00:41:20 ◼   ► It's a, you know, I can't measure the speed improvements.

00:41:24 ◼   ► They say it's a lot faster.

00:41:25 ◼   ► It's probably more measurable on slower systems

00:41:28 ◼   ► than the 5K iMac that I was using for most of my testing because it's pretty fast as

00:41:32 ◼   ► it is.

00:41:34 ◼   ► But by using Metal underneath instead of OpenGL, the game performance should be a lot better

00:41:38 ◼   ► and a whole bunch of other graphics stuff should be a lot smoother because core animation

00:41:42 ◼   ► and core graphics are now using Metal instead of OpenGL.

00:41:45 ◼   ► >> Cool.

00:41:46 ◼   ► >> But it didn't fix your computer.

00:41:50 ◼   ► Sorry.

00:41:51 ◼   ► >> No, it didn't.

00:41:52 ◼   ► It did not fix my computer at all.

00:41:54 ◼   ► Actually, let me take a second sponsor break right now and then I want to talk about Amazon

00:42:01 ◼   ► a little bit.

00:42:02 ◼   ► Okay.

00:42:03 ◼   ► Yeah, because there's some interesting stuff going on there this week.

00:42:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:06 ◼   ► This week's episode of Upgrade is brought to you by GoToMeeting.

00:42:11 ◼   ► Think about all the time, money, and hassle that it takes to hold a meeting.

00:42:15 ◼   ► Like getting everyone in the same place, getting the projector set up, sorting out refreshments,

00:42:21 ◼   ► checking everybody's calendars is just difficult enough.

00:42:23 ◼   ► But when you think about the time and hassle that it takes to bring people physically into

00:42:28 ◼   ► the same room, even if it's in the same building, that can just be tiresome.

00:42:34 ◼   ► It's just horrible.

00:42:35 ◼   ► But there is a better way.

00:42:36 ◼   ► You can meet your clients and coworkers online with Citrix GoToMeeting.

00:42:40 ◼   ► It really is a smarter way to meet.

00:42:42 ◼   ► People don't need to leave their offices to go to a different office.

00:42:45 ◼   ► People don't even need to leave their desk or the floor of the building that they work

00:42:48 ◼   ► on to meet with you over something that's important or mission critical for your work.

00:42:53 ◼   ► GoToMeeting makes it easy to meet with your team whenever you need to wherever you are

00:42:57 ◼   ► because you can meet from any computer, tablet or smartphone without travel expenses or the

00:43:02 ◼   ► hassle of travel.

00:43:03 ◼   ► Your team can join by just clicking a link, no sign ups or speed bumps will get in your

00:43:08 ◼   ► way.

00:43:09 ◼   ► You can turn on your webcam and with HD quality video it's just like everyone's in the room

00:43:13 ◼   ► together and you can even share screens to present, review and get feedback in real time.

00:43:19 ◼   ► With GoToMeeting everyone sees what you're seeing so you and your team can get on the

00:43:24 ◼   ► same page and get going quickly.

00:43:26 ◼   ► Stop wasting time with the crazy logistics of arranging meetings.

00:43:29 ◼   ► Go and sign up for GoToMeeting today.

00:43:31 ◼   ► You can try it for free for 30 days.

00:43:33 ◼   ► There's nothing to lose.

00:43:34 ◼   ► Just visit GoToMeeting.com and click the "Try it Free" button and you'll have your first

00:43:38 ◼   ► meeting up and running in just minutes.

00:43:41 ◼   ► Once again visit GoToMeeting.com for your free 30 day trial.

00:43:45 ◼   ► Thank you so much to GoToMeeting for supporting Upgrade and Relay FM.

00:43:48 ◼   ► So, over the past few days, Amazon have issued a release and have then subsequently stopped

00:43:59 ◼   ► selling devices like the Apple TV and the Chromecast.

00:44:03 ◼   ► And the quote from Amazon is, "Over the last three years, Prime Video has become an important

00:44:08 ◼   ► part of Prime," is what they said in an email that they sent out.

00:44:12 ◼   ► "It's important that the streaming media players we sell interact well with Prime Video in

00:44:16 ◼   ► in order to avoid customer confusion.

00:44:20 ◼   ► So basically what it seems like and what the assumption is

00:44:24 ◼   ► that Amazon and Apple and Amazon and Google

00:44:29 ◼   ► have not yet come to an agreement

00:44:33 ◼   ► over how to work together to get Prime onto their platforms.

00:44:37 ◼   ► So whether it's the Apple or Google

00:44:40 ◼   ► are asking Amazon to design in a certain way

00:44:43 ◼   ► that they're uncomfortable with,

00:44:44 ◼   ► or Amazon is saying,

00:44:46 ◼   ► we're not gonna go through your in-app purchase system

00:44:48 ◼   ► and we want people to sign up for their accounts,

00:44:49 ◼   ► whatever the reasons are,

00:44:52 ◼   ► they've basically come to a stalemate

00:44:54 ◼   ► in which Amazon has now taken some pretty harsh action.

00:44:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's weird, it's weird.

00:45:03 ◼   ► I see both sides of this and I know that

00:45:06 ◼   ► it's been very popular for people to just point at Amazon

00:45:09 ◼   ► and say, "Amazon, you're evil, boo."

00:45:13 ◼   ► If you're Amazon and you've spent, this is the conflict.

00:45:17 ◼   ► Amazon has spent a lot of time and money promoting their video services,

00:45:23 ◼   ► their streaming video services.

00:45:24 ◼   ► And so now they're a video platform owner.

00:45:30 ◼   ► They're also a seller of products.

00:45:33 ◼   ► And some of those products don't work with their video platform.

00:45:36 ◼   ► And I totally understand somebody at Amazon saying, this is confusing.

00:45:43 ◼   ► We're getting complaints.

00:45:44 ◼   ► I have to explain to people that, uh, no, just because you bought that video

00:45:50 ◼   ► streamer on Amazon and you're an Amazon customer, it doesn't mean that you can

00:45:55 ◼   ► get your video from Amazon on that product that you bought from Amazon because it's

00:46:00 ◼   ► from Apple and they don't like us.

00:46:02 ◼   ► And so they like us to sell their stuff, but they don't like us to put our stuff

00:46:06 ◼   ► on their, on their boxes.

00:46:07 ◼   ► Um, I, I get that.

00:46:10 ◼   ► I actually do get that.

00:46:11 ◼   ► I think that as computer nerds, it's easy for us to say,

00:46:15 ◼   ► oh, well, come on, everybody knows that you can't do that

00:46:17 ◼   ► on the Apple TV and all that, but I don't know.

00:46:20 ◼   ► If you're an Amazon customer and you're using Prime Video

00:46:22 ◼   ► and you say, oh, you know, I heard you can put that

00:46:24 ◼   ► on a TV, well, I've got Apple stuff,

00:46:26 ◼   ► I'm gonna get the Apple TV and use that.

00:46:29 ◼   ► Although you can, you can use AirPlay to play Amazon video

00:46:33 ◼   ► on the Apple TV, but you just can't use the app.

00:46:36 ◼   ► So I guess what I'm saying is I understand that.

00:46:41 ◼   ► this is the difficulty of having this platform

00:46:43 ◼   ► and also being a seller of hardware,

00:46:45 ◼   ► is that you are going to have issues like this,

00:46:48 ◼   ► where the stuff that you're doing over here

00:46:52 ◼   ► is not compatible with the stuff

00:46:53 ◼   ► that you're selling over there.

00:46:54 ◼   ► It's hard not to see this as a power play though,

00:46:59 ◼   ► as like the equivalent of Apple taking a publisher's books

00:47:02 ◼   ► out of the Apple store as an expression

00:47:06 ◼   ► of discontent in some way.

00:47:08 ◼   ► It also seems kind of bizarre to me in the sense

00:47:10 ◼   ► I think we all assumed that Amazon would do an app for the new Apple TV.

00:47:16 ◼   ► And if that is the case, wouldn't they not make such a big deal about sweeping the old Apple TV out of the store?

00:47:25 ◼   ► I don't know. It seems weird. Seems weird.

00:47:29 ◼   ► I think that Amazon probably want an app, but what they also want to do is sell subscriptions.

00:47:37 ◼   ► And that's why this is happening. So that's why I believe this is happening right now,

00:47:41 ◼   ► is because I assume that Apple and Amazon are meeting about the Apple TV.

00:47:47 ◼   ► So Bezos is like, "We're not getting what we want. Screw this. We'll show them." And this is

00:47:53 ◼   ► in the middle of the discussions. He said, "Well, we'll take it out of the store." And Apple go,

00:47:57 ◼   ► "Fine, try us." And they go, "Okay." And they pull it out. That's what I assume is happening right

00:48:02 ◼   ► now. And then somebody pulled down their pants at some point and just exposed their butt. But we

00:48:06 ◼   ► But we don't know who that was. That could have been either side, really. It was a very

00:48:10 ◼   ► juvenile meeting. It was very -- they should have ended it long before they had it.

00:48:14 ◼   ► You say that, though. I expect that this is a lot of why this is happening. And the reason

00:48:18 ◼   ► it's happening right now is because of the upcoming Apple TV. That is my feeling about

00:48:23 ◼   ► this. So the thing is that the way that I see this is I don't fully know if I can reconcile

00:48:31 ◼   ► in my mind why it's okay for Apple to take a cut of signups for Amazon Prime

00:48:37 ◼   ► video. I can't work out in my head, like so people like oh you know there's

00:48:43 ◼   ► people call foul on Amazon, but why should Apple be taking a cut of signups

00:48:50 ◼   ► anyway? Well the standard approach has been if you offer, if you

00:48:56 ◼   ► don't offer it in the app it's okay. That's why you can play Amazon instant

00:48:59 ◼   ► video stuff on an iPad. Sure, but why shouldn't people be able to sign up in the app? Well,

00:49:05 ◼   ► I think that's a separate issue. I think it's a separate issue. I think it is the issue.

00:49:10 ◼   ► Well, I'm... Because this is probably, I mean, this is one of the major problems that Amazon

00:49:15 ◼   ► and Apple have together, right? Sure, this is behind ripping all the commerce out of

00:49:20 ◼   ► ComiXology too, it's the same story. And why the Kindle app, you can't buy books in the

00:49:24 ◼   ► Kindle app and yeah it's true. And I wonder like why Apple think that this is

00:49:30 ◼   ► something that it's okay for them to demand because you can buy physical

00:49:35 ◼   ► goods right so it's not like there's a problem with we can't allow over payment

00:49:40 ◼   ► processing because other payment processing happens in Apple App Store

00:49:43 ◼   ► apps it's just this idea of a subscription service which they won't

00:49:49 ◼   ► play ball on. Yeah. When like you could just sign into your Amazon account and

00:49:52 ◼   ► and purchase it in the app like how you do a toaster.

00:49:57 ◼   ► So my feeling on this is if Amazon don't want to use the in-app purchase

00:50:02 ◼   ► system, I don't know why Apple think that they

00:50:05 ◼   ► deserve to say you can't do any kind of

00:50:10 ◼   ► account generation.

00:50:13 ◼   ► I don't think I'm following you here. I mean,

00:50:17 ◼   ► I have to admit I am surprised that this took a turn into

00:50:21 ◼   ► Apple's 30%. I think that doesn't need to...

00:50:23 ◼   ► - Maybe I'm not being completely clear about what I'm talking about.

00:50:25 ◼   ► - I don't think that needs to be relevant because there are these two issues.

00:50:28 ◼   ► There's the issue of does our box play your stuff? And historically, Amazon,

00:50:36 ◼   ► you know, again, does not have an app. There's a Netflix app on the Apple TV,

00:50:39 ◼   ► but there's not an Amazon app. But there is an Amazon video app on the iPad,

00:50:43 ◼   ► and there is a Netflix app on the iPad. And the Amazon app, you can't,

00:50:47 ◼   ► just like there's a Kindle app, you can get to your stuff, but you can't buy it on the device.

00:50:52 ◼   ► You can't subscribe other than in Safari. You can't do it in the app. And that's dumb,

00:51:00 ◼   ► but at least you can watch your stuff. I don't think people are signing up for Prime

00:51:04 ◼   ► necessarily on these devices in app. And so maybe it's not that big an issue. Now separately,

00:51:10 ◼   ► which is your point, is that's still a bad experience. And that's got to be part of the

00:51:16 ◼   ► conversation here is it's a much better experience like imagine all the

00:51:21 ◼   ► engineering work that Comixology had to do to rip out all their stuff they did a

00:51:24 ◼   ► whole update of their app that essentially was trying to make it more

00:51:28 ◼   ► palatable after they had to rip out all the all the commerce on iOS and this is

00:51:33 ◼   ► all because of this 30% thing that Apple is charging that that you know Amazon

00:51:39 ◼   ► doesn't want to pay because I have the margins for it yeah can't give they

00:51:43 ◼   ► can't give those margins to Apple. So like it's just I maybe didn't connect

00:51:49 ◼   ► the dots correctly but basically my feeling on this is that Amazon are

00:51:54 ◼   ► unhappy with any device in which they can't sign up customers on. So like

00:52:01 ◼   ► they you know with the iPad app for example you can just go to Safari and

00:52:06 ◼   ► sign up for a Prime account but you can't do that on the Apple TV there's no

00:52:09 ◼   ► flow for that so if somebody downloaded it like they want to be able to push

00:52:13 ◼   ► people to new accounts. That's my assumption here and which is why I feel

00:52:17 ◼   ► like there's always been this problem. Because I was really surprised to see

00:52:21 ◼   ► Netflix is now selling their subscriptions via in-app purchase and I

00:52:27 ◼   ► really wonder I look at that and be like, are they gonna let Apple take 30% of

00:52:32 ◼   ► that? I wonder if it is the standard deal. You know, you look at that

00:52:37 ◼   ► and I don't know if Netflix needed that but they've done it. I mean in Apple

00:52:41 ◼   ► a proton and like crazy for doing it. So I really wonder what the play is. I mean

00:52:46 ◼   ► maybe it's because there doesn't seem to be any preferential treatment for the

00:52:51 ◼   ► Apple TV because they've come out and said Apple have said that the the what

00:52:57 ◼   ► the API to have your content show up in universal search is available to all.

00:53:03 ◼   ► You know so it's stuff like I'm like wonder why Netflix did it so like all of

00:53:06 ◼   ► this adds fuel to the fire for me and like that there is something about the

00:53:10 ◼   ► creation of accounts that hold is holding up Amazon that's my feeling

00:53:15 ◼   ► about this anyway yeah I don't know what's going on with the Netflix thing

00:53:21 ◼   ► and if they are I mean so far everything I've heard from Apple is that 30% is 30%

00:53:25 ◼   ► that's just the deal and so is it possible the Netflix is just figures

00:53:30 ◼   ► that the that it's more important to acquire those customers and pay up over

00:53:34 ◼   ► 30% than it is to not, and that maybe they will try to do something later to convert

00:53:43 ◼   ► them, or is it that Apple cut them a deal and they're only paying Apple 10% or something

00:53:48 ◼   ► like that? Maybe they feel it's just an important percentage of their customer base, but not

00:53:52 ◼   ► a huge percentage, and they'd rather have them at a lower rate than not have them.

00:53:57 ◼   ► Yeah, like maybe Netflix know the amount of people that download their app, try to sign

00:54:00 ◼   ► on and have no account.

00:54:02 ◼   ► Also something like Amazon Prime is problematic because Amazon Prime Video is not a video

00:54:07 ◼   ► streaming service.

00:54:08 ◼   ► It's part of a much larger package, and I'm sure Amazon is not willing to give Apple 30%

00:54:12 ◼   ► of a package that only includes the video.

00:54:16 ◼   ► Right?

00:54:17 ◼   ► It makes even—Amazon's business doesn't make a lot of sense with the 30% model.

00:54:21 ◼   ► That's why you can't buy books in the Kindle app.

00:54:23 ◼   ► It's because Amazon's whole business is based on these low margins.

00:54:26 ◼   ► There's no room there for them to hand somebody through.

00:54:31 ◼   ► not a business designed for a middleman, right? And Apple is the middleman here.

00:54:36 ◼   ► When it comes to selling of content, like, who are Apple to boss Amazon around, right?

00:54:41 ◼   ► Like, they're both so huge, right? It's like, why should we have to do anything you tell us,

00:54:48 ◼   ► you know? I, you know, and I hate the subject. I hate the subject because it says to me,

00:54:53 ◼   ► I feel like this is some of Apple's worst tendencies. Yeah. You know, and you get that

00:55:01 ◼   ► aspect of wanting complete control and being a dictator is what gets you a lot of positive

00:55:07 ◼   ► things about Apple stuff. But this also has to me the width of one of, I think, the least

00:55:15 ◼   ► enjoyable parts of Apple's personality as a company, which is this idea that anybody

00:55:22 ◼   ► who's making money in their playground owes them a cut because they're making money off

00:55:26 ◼   ► of Apple's greatness. And, you know, in some circumstances maybe that's true, but at some

00:55:34 ◼   ► point it becomes, I feel like, more than that. It's not about that anymore. Like, is degrading—we've

00:55:41 ◼   ► talked about this before, we talked about this about Comixology—is degrading the user

00:55:44 ◼   ► experience of being a comic book reader on an iPad worth it to Apple because they need

00:55:52 ◼   ► that cash? If you're going to sell comics on my platform, you've got to give me the

00:55:55 ◼   ► cash, I need that cash." Well, they don't really need it. I think if Apple is ever at

00:56:00 ◼   ► a point where their business is really based on making 30% of a skim off of everything

00:56:05 ◼   ► that's sold in their financial transactions in the App Store and through iTunes IDs, then

00:56:10 ◼   ► their business is in trouble because that's not really their business, that's a side business,

00:56:15 ◼   ► and taking some reasonable cut is fine, but 30% is a pretty large cut. And for an established

00:56:20 ◼   ► business like Amazon, it's incompatible. And so Apple has said, "Hey, comic book readers,

00:56:26 ◼   ► here's the most popular comic book reader on the platform, and it's going to be worse

00:56:31 ◼   ► now because we have this 30% rule and that's just how it has to be." That bugs me. That

00:56:36 ◼   ► bugs me because I feel like the users get hurt because Apple and Amazon are fighting

00:56:41 ◼   ► over this. And in this case, I'm going to take Amazon's side and say, "Amazon's business

00:56:45 ◼   ► is not built so that they can give Apple 30%. They can't do it. They can't do it because

00:56:52 ◼   ► they're acting as the middleman. There can't be another middleman. So, you know, I feel

00:57:00 ◼   ► like the reasonable solution here would be for Apple to either have these tough negotiations

00:57:04 ◼   ► behind the scenes, which who knows, might happen and that may not have gone well and

00:57:08 ◼   ► that may be why we saw Amazon take its ball and go home like they did, but or

00:57:15 ◼   ► throw Apple's ball in its face and stalk off the field that might be a better

00:57:19 ◼   ► metaphor for it. Or have Apple say we're gonna work with a few partners

00:57:25 ◼   ► who are trusted, you know, trusted third-party partners who have their own

00:57:29 ◼   ► existing commerce sites and let them do in-app purchases but it's gonna be

00:57:34 ◼   ► limited to this list and I people always complain it's like no no no Apple can't

00:57:37 ◼   ► do that, it's got to be fair and it's got to be the same for everybody." It doesn't.

00:57:41 ◼   ► It absolutely doesn't. It's Apple's store. It's Apple's rules. Apple can do whatever

00:57:44 ◼   ► it wants. Apple could very easily say, "These five outside parties, we're going to allow

00:57:49 ◼   ► this," because they're established and they have these much more complicated businesses.

00:57:54 ◼   ► Apple could do that if it wanted, I think, and it wouldn't be a big deal for them and

00:57:59 ◼   ► for their business. And it would probably improve the quality of buying books and stuff

00:58:06 ◼   ► like that on iOS devices through Amazon that much better.

00:58:12 ◼   ► But I feel that on the flip side in the same instance, if Amazon want to remove products

00:58:18 ◼   ► from their store they can. It's their store and they can do whatever they want.

00:58:21 ◼   ► Sure! It's their store! Amazon's not a public utility.

00:58:24 ◼   ► No. Amazon, and that's what I was saying initially,

00:58:27 ◼   ► is I see the argument, again, I don't read it this way. If Amazon had done this maybe

00:58:32 ◼   ► a little more quietly. I don't, I don't think this is actually why it went down the way

00:58:36 ◼   ► it is, but I see the argument that if you're Amazon and you're really invested in getting

00:58:40 ◼   ► people to sign up for Prime and use this video service and there are these devices that don't

00:58:45 ◼   ► support what you're doing, I can see taking them off, not because you're trying to improve

00:58:50 ◼   ► a point to their manufacturers, but because it's confusing to some of your customers and

00:58:57 ◼   ► they have every right to make those decisions. Just like every merchant has a right to decide

00:59:01 ◼   ► what gets stocked in their stores.

00:59:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:04 ◼   ► All right, there's one other thing that I wanted to mention today because it news broke

00:59:08 ◼   ► this morning and we've spoken about it a ton, that Jack Dorsey is back in as Twitter CEO.

00:59:15 ◼   ► Yeah, Jack's back.

00:59:18 ◼   ► Jack is back.

00:59:19 ◼   ► I mean, you know, we were talking about it.

00:59:20 ◼   ► I mean, do you have any feelings on it right now?

00:59:23 ◼   ► I mean, it's kind of a bit like it's like, okay, what now?

00:59:28 ◼   ► Like you know, what are you going to do?

00:59:30 ◼   ► He had a tweet storm this morning.

00:59:34 ◼   ► - He did, good.

00:59:35 ◼   ► - And yeah, that's kind of the guess,

00:59:39 ◼   ► the way you should do it, right?

00:59:40 ◼   ► I liked it, it was good.

00:59:41 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes to his tweet

00:59:44 ◼   ► and also to Adam Bain's tweet

00:59:46 ◼   ► and you can kind of see the tweet storms trailing off them.

00:59:49 ◼   ► Adam Bain is now the COO.

00:59:51 ◼   ► This was the change that people wanted to see.

00:59:55 ◼   ► This was the exact changes that people were asking for.

00:59:59 ◼   ► I am hopeful for difference in Twitter.

01:00:03 ◼   ► I mean, I believe in Dorsey.

01:00:05 ◼   ► I endorse-y him.

01:00:08 ◼   ► Not saying that again.

01:00:11 ◼   ► But I'm interested to see where it goes now.

01:00:15 ◼   ► I think that Twitter as a company clearly is aware

01:00:18 ◼   ► that they have to make some changes.

01:00:20 ◼   ► And again, as we've said before,

01:00:21 ◼   ► that doesn't mean that it's gonna be the changes we like,

01:00:24 ◼   ► but it's just gonna be changes.

01:00:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, we don't know.

01:00:29 ◼   ► But boy, he does sound like he gets the product.

01:00:32 ◼   ► That's what I think we've been saying all along here,

01:00:34 ◼   ► is that he knows and understands the product,

01:00:36 ◼   ► and he loves it, he cares about Twitter,

01:00:37 ◼   ► he wants it to be better.

01:00:38 ◼   ► There was an interesting story

01:00:40 ◼   ► that came out over the weekend

01:00:41 ◼   ► about sort of like the personal growth of Jack Dorsey,

01:00:45 ◼   ► and how he's changed a lot, and grown,

01:00:48 ◼   ► and become a much better CEO over the years,

01:00:51 ◼   ► and a much better listener, and a much better manager,

01:00:54 ◼   ► which on one level, I think, I think, uh, was a really good story.

01:00:58 ◼   ► And another level I had this moment of like, Hmm, I wonder what the story is

01:01:02 ◼   ► behind this, this particular story launching at this particular time.

01:01:05 ◼   ► Like how much of this is organically happening and how much of this is the

01:01:09 ◼   ► Jack Dorsey PR training happening.

01:01:12 ◼   ► But either way, um, It became very clear over the last couple of weeks that there

01:01:17 ◼   ► was nobody else to do this job who was, you know, that, that the other, for

01:01:22 ◼   ► whatever reason that this was the only name and they didn't want you know they

01:01:26 ◼   ► wanted him to leave Square and do this and he said no I'm not gonna do that and

01:01:31 ◼   ► they still did it they still hired him so clearly they didn't have some other

01:01:37 ◼   ► candidate in the wings that that was gonna be you know a better choice than

01:01:41 ◼   ► him so so it's gonna be him and he's gonna have to split his time between

01:01:44 ◼   ► Twitter and Square but I feel like the people at Twitter believe in him and

01:01:48 ◼   ► that are energized by the fact that he's back and having a founder come back and take up

01:01:54 ◼   ► the reins, we know that that can be a good experience. I hope it is for Twitter. It sounds

01:01:58 ◼   ► like they've already got a bunch of stuff in motion. And you know, I don't know if you

01:02:02 ◼   ► saw this, the most telling thing in the last couple of weeks about Twitter was that there's

01:02:08 ◼   ► this rumor that they're going to do something that breaks the 140 character limit for tweets.

01:02:12 ◼   ► And it's unclear whether that means something like there are going to be Twitter posts that

01:02:16 ◼   ► are going to be embeds in a Twitter in a tweet or whether they're going to take some of the

01:02:20 ◼   ► metadata and move it out of the tweet of counting it for the tweet length. It's unclear. And

01:02:26 ◼   ► we can debate whether that's a good or bad idea for Twitter. But this is the part that

01:02:30 ◼   ► really got me is they talked to somebody at Twitter, I think maybe anonymously, who said

01:02:36 ◼   ► there was huge internal debate about something like this. And Jack came in and said, it's

01:02:42 ◼   ► okay." And everybody's like, "Oh, it's okay." And then they went about their business in

01:02:47 ◼   ► building this feature. To me, that's like, wow, that is a company that is desperately

01:02:53 ◼   ► looking for vision and leadership. And as the CEO and co-founder of Twitter, Jack Dorsey

01:03:01 ◼   ► has the authority to say, "Here's my vision for Twitter, and we're going to do this now,"

01:03:06 ◼   ► and not have people be like, "Well, does it really fit? What do you think? Let's debate

01:03:10 ◼   ► it'll he has the ability to cut through that and say it's fine build it and I

01:03:15 ◼   ► get the feeling hearing that story I start to think about Twitter meandering

01:03:19 ◼   ► for the last few years and think yeah maybe that is one reason why is that

01:03:23 ◼   ► there was nobody to say you know dick Costolo didn't say we're gonna do it

01:03:27 ◼   ► this way about the product because I think he kind of maybe didn't care about

01:03:29 ◼   ► the product so much I think he was focused on other areas and I don't know

01:03:34 ◼   ► again I'm just I'm just in the peanut gallery here but that that's that's my

01:03:38 ◼   ► take on it is I was impressed with that anecdote that that was Jack saying it's

01:03:42 ◼   ► fine do it and and everybody felt freed to do it then. So that actually mirrors

01:03:48 ◼   ► completely a tweet from Adam Bain today where he said Jack has the insight as well

01:03:52 ◼   ► as the moral authority as a founder to push teams to make big bold changes. Yeah

01:03:57 ◼   ► right right because otherwise you're afraid you're am I screwing up Twitter

01:04:01 ◼   ► now and Jack's Jack of all people is going no it's fine oh well if Jack says

01:04:05 ◼   ► fine then let's do it." But it's also the other way where it's like people like

01:04:10 ◼   ► Jack we shouldn't do this and he's like "do you know what though? It's mine so

01:04:13 ◼   ► whatever like we can do about it like I came up with the idea this is another

01:04:17 ◼   ► idea that I've had so therefore it is the actual thing right and these those

01:04:21 ◼   ► things do kind of marry up in a weird way I think I'm I think it's great and

01:04:26 ◼   ► another tweet that I just wanted to mention which I really loved from Dorsey

01:04:31 ◼   ► where he's like "Twitter is the most powerful communication tool of our time

01:04:34 ◼   ► it shows everything the world is saying right now 10 to 15 minutes before

01:04:38 ◼   ► anything else. Also Adam Bain you mentioned he got promoted to COO chief

01:04:46 ◼   ► operating officer from chief revenue officer and I think that's telling

01:04:49 ◼   ► because I think that what that's saying is how is Jack gonna work as a CEO when

01:04:54 ◼   ► he's also the CEO somewhere else and I think the answer is he's got he's got

01:04:59 ◼   ► Adam Bain to do this part of this part of the job right he's gonna he's gonna

01:05:02 ◼   ► to keep Twitter running and focus on some of these areas, including sales and the revenue

01:05:09 ◼   ► stuff. I get the feeling that Jack as CEO is, in addition to being the leader of the

01:05:15 ◼   ► whole package, is also going to be much more focused on parts of the product, and that

01:05:20 ◼   ► Adam Bain gets to run parts of the business under Jack's thumbs up. That's the structure

01:05:27 ◼   ► that makes sense to me, too.

01:05:28 ◼   ► Well, because it's impossible to not compare Dorsey to Jobs right now.

01:05:32 ◼   ► Um, you know, if you think about the way that Steve ran Apple, especially later on,

01:05:39 ◼   ► he did things that interested him and that he thought was important and Tim

01:05:42 ◼   ► Cook took care of everything else.

01:05:43 ◼   ► And Tim Cook handled the rest of it.

01:05:44 ◼   ► And yeah.

01:05:45 ◼   ► Hey, it worked for them.

01:05:47 ◼   ► Maybe it all worked for Twitter too.

01:05:49 ◼   ► And Twitter doesn't need to, and doesn't do things at the scale that Apple does.

01:05:53 ◼   ► So...

01:05:54 ◼   ► It's true.

01:05:54 ◼   ► It's true.

01:05:55 ◼   ► It's a, yeah, it's, it's a much smaller group.

01:05:57 ◼   ► I'm excited to see where this goes.

01:05:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, me too.

01:05:59 ◼   ► At this point, we've detailed this on past shows.

01:06:03 ◼   ► Twitter needs to move its product forward.

01:06:06 ◼   ► And we may not agree with all the changes

01:06:07 ◼   ► that come from that,

01:06:08 ◼   ► but they need to move the product forward.

01:06:10 ◼   ► I did see somebody had a little exchange with Jack today

01:06:14 ◼   ► on Twitter that ended with the person saying,

01:06:17 ◼   ► essentially, you should bring back

01:06:20 ◼   ► the third-party developers.

01:06:22 ◼   ► And it'll be interesting to see.

01:06:25 ◼   ► I wouldn't put money on that happening

01:06:27 ◼   ► because I feel like maybe we've just gone down the road too far.

01:06:30 ◼   ► But I look at the state of the Twitter app on the iPad,

01:06:34 ◼   ► and then I look at Tweetbot 4 and Twitterific,

01:06:37 ◼   ► and this is so clear that Twitter as a company right now

01:06:41 ◼   ► can't make a good mobile experience,

01:06:45 ◼   ► and third-party developers can.

01:06:47 ◼   ► So it'll be interesting to see what they do there,

01:06:51 ◼   ► whether they embrace the third-party developers

01:06:53 ◼   ► or whether they actually make an effort

01:06:55 ◼   ► to get their internal mobile development team in shape.

01:06:58 ◼   ► What we've talked about before,

01:07:00 ◼   ► the whispers are that they bring talented developers

01:07:05 ◼   ► in to work on Twitter's mobile apps

01:07:07 ◼   ► and then they leave not too long after.

01:07:10 ◼   ► And that's a bad sign.

01:07:12 ◼   ► So I'm curious about how that goes,

01:07:15 ◼   ► about whether Twitter says,

01:07:17 ◼   ► "You know what, third-party apps are an important part

01:07:19 ◼   ► "of our ecosystem and we're gonna do more with them

01:07:21 ◼   ► "because that's an important part

01:07:22 ◼   ► "of what we need to do to grow."

01:07:24 ◼   ► or whether they'll say, no, no, no, we need to own that,

01:07:27 ◼   ► but we're gonna do a better job.

01:07:28 ◼   ► I don't think there's an option

01:07:30 ◼   ► other than one of those two though.

01:07:31 ◼   ► I will be grossly disappointed with the new Jack Dorsey era

01:07:36 ◼   ► if their presence on the iPad remains what it is now,

01:07:41 ◼   ► which is a joke.

01:07:42 ◼   ► - Well, they just shut it down

01:07:44 ◼   ► and point everyone to tweet, well, it's terrific.

01:07:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, my fear is that they'll shut it down

01:07:49 ◼   ► and point everybody at the web

01:07:51 ◼   ► and say, just use the web version of Twitter.

01:07:53 ◼   ► I think they're not that dumb.

01:07:54 ◼   ► No, well, yeah, you're probably right.

01:07:57 ◼   ► Then again, have you seen Twitter for iPad?

01:08:00 ◼   ► I know, but at least it looks better than what they had before.

01:08:03 ◼   ► I know there's a lot of white space, which is terrible, but that previous version was just horrific.

01:08:08 ◼   ► Yeah, it was.

01:08:09 ◼   ► It was.

01:08:10 ◼   ► So, you know, we live in hope.

01:08:12 ◼   ► We do indeed. Should we do some Ask Upgrade?

01:08:14 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a good idea.

01:08:15 ◼   ► Would you like to thank our Ask Upgrade sponsor this week, Jason?

01:08:18 ◼   ► Yes, I would. I would like to thank them.

01:08:21 ◼   ► Ask upgrade this week brought to you by Stamps.com.

01:08:23 ◼   ► You know, as I've told you before, it can be difficult mailing and shipping and getting

01:08:28 ◼   ► that job done.

01:08:29 ◼   ► It can lead you to sadness.

01:08:32 ◼   ► This happens to me all the time.

01:08:34 ◼   ► I don't want to go to the post office.

01:08:35 ◼   ► It takes up time and I don't want to see those people.

01:08:37 ◼   ► I also don't want to lease a postage meter that can be very expensive.

01:08:41 ◼   ► There are multi-year commitments and hidden fees often.

01:08:43 ◼   ► There is a better way though.

01:08:44 ◼   ► It is Stamps.com.

01:08:45 ◼   ► With Stamps.com you get to buy and print official US postage for any letter or package and do

01:08:50 ◼   ► it right from your desk using your own computer and printer. You can even get special postage

01:08:54 ◼   ► discounts that you can't find at the post office. Plus, Stamps.com is more powerful

01:08:59 ◼   ► than your average postage meter and is just a fraction of the cost. You can save at least

01:09:04 ◼   ► 50% compared to a postage meter and avoid those trips to the post office. Stamps.com

01:09:10 ◼   ► is $15.99 a month, that's it. There's no long-term multi-year commitment like the postage meters

01:09:14 ◼   ► require. There's no markup on postage. In fact, you'll get special postage discounts

01:09:19 ◼   ► with Stamps.com. So it's really a no-brainer. I have used it here to ship things. I've got

01:09:23 ◼   ► a stack of boxes that still need to go out and I am looking forward to doing that in

01:09:28 ◼   ► a way that I never look forward to shipping anything because all I have to do is sit at

01:09:32 ◼   ► my desk and print out some stuff and affix the labels and then I'm good to go. I don't

01:09:36 ◼   ► even need to go to the post office if I don't want to. It's very exciting. Stamps.com is

01:09:40 ◼   ► providing a special offer to upgrade listeners. You use promo code UPGRADE with a special

01:09:46 ◼   ► offer at Stamps.com. Four-week trial plus a $110 bonus offer including postage and a

01:09:53 ◼   ► digital scale. So don't wait. Go to Stamps.com. Before you do anything else, click on the

01:09:58 ◼   ► microphone at the top of the homepage and type in "upgrade." That's Stamps.com. Enter

01:10:03 ◼   ► "upgrade." Thank you to Stamps.com for supporting upgrade and #AskUpgrade.

01:10:09 ◼   ► #AskUpgrade. I need to get an actual sound effect for you. Justin has asked, "Regarding

01:10:18 ◼   ► display zoom, do you use standard or zoomed?" I use standard. I use standard too. Wow, on

01:10:27 ◼   ► the 6 Plus, well, you know, you're taking full advantage of the room then. I know some

01:10:31 ◼   ► Some people—so my wife uses it zoomed on the 6 because she's getting a little far-sighted.

01:10:42 ◼   ► She needs reading glasses now, so she uses it zoomed.

01:10:46 ◼   ► So when she went from the 5 to the 6, she put it in zoomed mode, and that means that

01:10:52 ◼   ► she's got essentially the same real estate as she had on the 5, but everything's bigger.

01:10:57 ◼   ► And that works—that's actually worked great.

01:11:00 ◼   ► she was struggling with cranking up the font size on things, and that's really inconsistent

01:11:04 ◼   ► in iOS, because not everybody's using the right font APIs in their apps, and so now

01:11:10 ◼   ► she's using it Zoomed. But I'm still on standard.

01:11:13 ◼   ► So if you remember, many weeks ago, I spoke about my mum getting a new phone for my mum.

01:11:19 ◼   ► We got her a 6, it came a couple of days ago, and I set her up on it. She is using it standard,

01:11:25 ◼   ► but she has the text bumped all the way up and bold text on, because it makes it easier

01:11:29 ◼   ► for her to see. But she loves the iPhone 6. She loves it. She's coming from a 5c.

01:11:36 ◼   ► We've got touch ID set up which she thinks is awesome because she wasn't

01:11:40 ◼   ► using a passcode before. So we set her up with touch ID. Although she found the

01:11:45 ◼   ► whole process of enabling touch ID hilarious she just was really giggling.

01:11:48 ◼   ► Like, you know, keep lifting your thumb, let your finger or

01:11:52 ◼   ► thumb point up and down up and down. I was telling her to do it and she just

01:11:56 ◼   ► thought it was so funny to the point where she couldn't stop laughing so much

01:11:59 ◼   ► that I had to hold her hand and do it for her. It was a whole big family silly

01:12:04 ◼   ► moment but she really really loves it. She thinks she loves the big screen. She

01:12:09 ◼   ► did say that she kind of wishes it was bigger like she's interested in the plus

01:12:13 ◼   ► but she wouldn't be able to use it. It would be too big for her hands which she

01:12:17 ◼   ► understands but she really does like her six a lot and I'm happy that we've

01:12:22 ◼   ► got her on a new phone and she seems really happy about it and she's

01:12:26 ◼   ► learning how to use apps more and she transferred her banking app overall by

01:12:30 ◼   ► herself and stuff which is great because like my mom has never used a computer

01:12:34 ◼   ► like she uses a Windows machine at work which she only knows how to use that

01:12:38 ◼   ► exact machine with the programs in the exact way right she's one of those kinds of

01:12:42 ◼   ► people that she knows how to use. My dad never used computers but I set

01:12:48 ◼   ► him up with an Excel spreadsheet for his office's accounting for his books.

01:12:53 ◼   ► It was just an Excel spreadsheet with tabs for every month.

01:12:57 ◼   ► And every year I would make him a new one and he never did anything else ever on a

01:13:01 ◼   ► computer, but he knew how to turn on the Mac SE, I think, or maybe it was a Mac 2.

01:13:06 ◼   ► It ended up being a 2C-I after a while.

01:13:09 ◼   ► Um, and he knew to click on the folder with the year and click on the

01:13:14 ◼   ► month and put in the numbers.

01:13:16 ◼   ► and that was it, but he knew how to do that one thing.

01:13:19 ◼   ► That was using a computer.

01:13:21 ◼   ► - Yep, 'cause that's exactly it.

01:13:23 ◼   ► That is computer, right?

01:13:24 ◼   ► But yeah, she knows how to use her iPhone.

01:13:27 ◼   ► She was talking to me the other day about Googling things.

01:13:29 ◼   ► Like, it's awesome.

01:13:30 ◼   ► And I love that this device is easy enough

01:13:32 ◼   ► for her to understand.

01:13:33 ◼   ► But we did have that conversation again.

01:13:35 ◼   ► I had it with her as I have on this show a lot

01:13:37 ◼   ► about the complexity stuff.

01:13:39 ◼   ► Like, she completely agrees with me about how there are,

01:13:41 ◼   ► you know, as it gets more complex,

01:13:43 ◼   ► it's harder for her to understand

01:13:44 ◼   ► because something changes in the phone that she doesn't get.

01:13:48 ◼   ► So she just knows if there's anything she doesn't get,

01:13:50 ◼   ► she needs to tell me.

01:13:51 ◼   ► Because plus I say to her,

01:13:52 ◼   ► it also is really good for the shows

01:13:53 ◼   ► because it gives me something to talk about.

01:13:55 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:13:56 ◼   ► - Wimsey asked, what's your solution

01:13:58 ◼   ► for storing all of the watch bands that you own?

01:14:00 ◼   ► I just put mine in a drawer,

01:14:03 ◼   ► which is in my bedside cabinet.

01:14:05 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:14:06 ◼   ► - I don't have like a box or anything.

01:14:08 ◼   ► - Yep, that's mine too.

01:14:09 ◼   ► It's in the drawer.

01:14:11 ◼   ► Drawer solution.

01:14:13 ◼   ► I look at them now, now that I have another one, I look at them and think, I should probably

01:14:18 ◼   ► do something about that, but I haven't done anything beyond just have them around.

01:14:21 ◼   ► I would love to see someone make a little box.

01:14:27 ◼   ► Mickey wants to know what we think will come first.

01:14:30 ◼   ► Apple stopping selling 16GB iPhones or more free iCloud storage.

01:14:38 ◼   ► Can I choose the death of the universe?

01:14:40 ◼   ► end of time the sun expanding into a red giant and melting the earth every now and then i mean you

01:14:47 ◼   ► will have seen this more than me but i feel like in the time that i've been interested in this stuff

01:14:52 ◼   ► there is a story in apple press that becomes a thing and it becomes like a mcguffin for a while

01:15:00 ◼   ► and the 16 gigabyte iphone one is that now to the point where i think apple are kind of into a

01:15:07 ◼   ► corner of having to change it because now it's being brought up in reviews in

01:15:12 ◼   ► the more general tech press like it needs to come out because if they don't

01:15:16 ◼   ► stop it now for the iPhone 7 it's gonna it's gonna get away from them and it

01:15:22 ◼   ► could end up being a bigger point than it is now so I think that no matter what

01:15:27 ◼   ► they were intending with the way that the discussion because we'll just keep

01:15:30 ◼   ► talking about this for the next eight months we will it's gonna have to go

01:15:35 ◼   ► away the 16 gigabyte now that's my feeling and if they don't do it then

01:15:39 ◼   ► they need to they need to have a very clear reason as to why that they are

01:15:43 ◼   ► will communicate to people then again it gives us something to talk about and

01:15:47 ◼   ► that's you know these the next 50 shows aren't gonna talk themselves I mean

01:15:51 ◼   ► that's the problem right because we need stuff to talk about so we'll keep

01:15:54 ◼   ► talking about that right so that's why they have to change it because the press

01:15:58 ◼   ► just keep going around and around I'm gonna go with you next fall is an

01:16:02 ◼   ► opportunity for Apple to revisit the 16 gig lower end when they do the iPhone 7.

01:16:08 ◼   ► It seems like a perfectly appropriate time to go up to 32 or more, but let's

01:16:15 ◼   ► say 32 with the low-end model.

01:16:18 ◼   ► And they had the opportunity, they changed the iCloud storage rates so

01:16:23 ◼   ► infrequently and they just changed them and they didn't increase the free

01:16:27 ◼   ► number from five to 10.

01:16:29 ◼   ► So my gut feeling is that will probably take longer.

01:16:33 ◼   ► Although there's so much, oh,

01:16:37 ◼   ► topic for another episode, we'll preview this.

01:16:40 ◼   ► There's so much more that needs to be done

01:16:43 ◼   ► on the shared services in a family.

01:16:48 ◼   ► 'Cause I was trying this weekend

01:16:49 ◼   ► to get my wife's iPhone to back up

01:16:52 ◼   ► to my terabyte of iCloud storage that I'm paying for.

01:16:56 ◼   ► and I can't do it without losing Find My iPhone, basically,

01:17:00 ◼   ► or Find Friends for her,

01:17:01 ◼   ► because you have to choose one or the other.

01:17:03 ◼   ► And it's just, there's so many things they need to fix.

01:17:06 ◼   ► So sometimes I wonder about that, like,

01:17:08 ◼   ► could families pool,

01:17:09 ◼   ► or could you have a bunch of different devices

01:17:11 ◼   ► that each get five gigabytes that increment

01:17:13 ◼   ► toward a larger number up to a limit?

01:17:16 ◼   ► Lots of things they could do there,

01:17:17 ◼   ► but my gut feeling is since they didn't do it

01:17:19 ◼   ► when they just revised all the plans,

01:17:21 ◼   ► that they probably won't do it again

01:17:23 ◼   ► for a couple of years at least,

01:17:24 ◼   ► because they would have done it if they were planning on doing that.

01:17:30 ◼   ► And finally today, Oz would like to know if we have any thoughts on the round Pebble design.

01:17:34 ◼   ► So Pebble came out with another new watch called the Pebble Time Round, which is a round

01:17:39 ◼   ► face and it has some slightly different features I believe.

01:17:42 ◼   ► I haven't looked into this too much to be honest, Jason, which I think is inherently

01:17:46 ◼   ► part of the problem.

01:17:48 ◼   ► I say to them, "Bravo for trying new things."

01:17:51 ◼   ► I think I like the idea.

01:17:54 ◼   ► I think the bezel is too much.

01:17:57 ◼   ► I mean, I can accept the little flat tire thing

01:18:02 ◼   ► on the Moto 360.

01:18:03 ◼   ► I agree, well, I buy Motorola's reasoning for that,

01:18:08 ◼   ► which is I say is otherwise they would need a bezel,

01:18:12 ◼   ► probably like this one,

01:18:13 ◼   ► 'cause they need to put the display driver somewhere.

01:18:16 ◼   ► I think that this is more of an indication to me

01:18:21 ◼   ► that Pebble are in trouble because it's another version.

01:18:27 ◼   ► Yeah, they're trying everything. I will note that it's now a two-day battery life. It used

01:18:35 ◼   ► to be like six, six or seven. Now it's down to two.

01:18:39 ◼   ► I think this is because it's so thin maybe?

01:18:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:42 ◼   ► Maybe? I don't know.

01:18:43 ◼   ► Could be. I think it looks nice, although the bezel is huge. Bevel. Bevel, bubble. But

01:18:51 ◼   ► I admit that I've written off Pebble because I don't think their iOS story is compelling.

01:19:01 ◼   ► I think even their Android one is getting harder to do.

01:19:04 ◼   ► Because some of these device makers now are making full-on smartwatches with full-color

01:19:10 ◼   ► screens that are real little computers that Pebble don't make that, but the battery life

01:19:17 ◼   ► is starting to get better and better and better on these Motorola stuff and the Asus stuff.

01:19:21 ◼   ► They're losing their competitive advantage day by day now.

01:19:25 ◼   ► Yeah, it's tough for them.

01:19:28 ◼   ► Especially if their competitive advantage is battery life and they've just released a really good-looking one

01:19:32 ◼   ► but they've cut the battery life significantly, then at that point, why would you not go for a Moto 360? I don't know.

01:19:40 ◼   ► For $250. I mean, that's the other thing is if this was a $99 watch, then I would say, "Oh, well, that's nice."

01:19:46 ◼   ► Because I do think there's a market for a cheap, light smartwatch, something that doesn't really do a lot.

01:19:51 ◼   ► but it shows the time and maybe it gives you some notifications or maybe it's a tracker or something,

01:19:55 ◼   ► but it's cheap and it's, you know, but this is 250 for this, so that doesn't seem cheap to me.

01:20:03 ◼   ► That seems like a lot. I don't think they got a long time left in them. I especially don't think

01:20:13 ◼   ► they have long left in their current size and scale. I wonder if at some point they might be

01:20:20 ◼   ► be an aqua hire kind of thing where they've been thinking about you know

01:20:23 ◼   ► they've been thinking about smartwatch stuff for a while and if somebody might

01:20:27 ◼   ► buy them just for their engineers and all that but there may be too much it

01:20:31 ◼   ► may just be too late and and I don't know we'll see. If you're a company like

01:20:35 ◼   ► Motorola, Asus, somebody like that you know these guys and girls have been

01:20:42 ◼   ► doing this for longer than anyone you should you should get them because you

01:20:47 ◼   ► know that that software idea for the Pebble Time I thought was really smart

01:20:51 ◼   ► and innovative you know you know like the way that everything was in a

01:20:54 ◼   ► timeline I thought that was really clever and it made a lot of sense so

01:20:59 ◼   ► this is the type of stuff that they could think about because they've been

01:21:01 ◼   ► doing this for as long as they have so I think somebody should consider scooping

01:21:05 ◼   ► them up maybe we should buy them upgrade timepieces exchange for some relay stock

01:21:12 ◼   ► yeah yeah we'll work on that work on that if you want to find show notes for

01:21:16 ◼   ► this week's episode head on over to relay.fm/upgrade/57. If you want to find Jason online he's over

01:21:23 ◼   ► at SixColors.com and he's @JSNEL on Twitter, J S N E double L. I am @imike, I M Y K E.

01:21:32 ◼   ► Thank you so much for listening as always, we really appreciate it. If you have questions,

01:21:36 ◼   ► comments, thoughts, follow up, follow out, follow in, you can use the hashtag #askupgrade.

01:21:40 ◼   ► It is a great way to get all of that stuff to us because we look at it for all of those

01:21:45 ◼   ► reasons. And thanks again to our sponsors, the great people over at lynda.com, gotomeeting

01:21:51 ◼   ► and stamps.com. And we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye Jason Snow.

01:21:56 ◼   ► Bye Myke Hurley.

01:21:57 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:22:00 ◼   ► [ Music ]