53: Everything is Off The Charts


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   - Hello and welcome to episode 53 of Upgrade from Relay FM.

00:00:14   It's a big day today in the Apple world

00:00:16   and I am joined by your normal host

00:00:20   or what's left of your normal host, Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:23   - I'm mostly here.

00:00:24   Hi Steven, how's it going? - Mostly here?

00:00:25   - I'm mostly here. - It's good.

00:00:27   We should say that I'm not Myke

00:00:28   in case people haven't noticed that yet.

00:00:30   - Yeah, your voice has a slightly different timber,

00:00:32   also not English.

00:00:34   But it's, and we're recording this on Wednesday,

00:00:36   September 9th, not the usual day, not the usual co-host,

00:00:41   but that's all because Apple made our lives hard

00:00:44   by introducing a bazillion things.

00:00:47   And we decided, why don't we talk about what Apple did today

00:00:51   rather than talk about what Apple would do

00:00:52   in a couple of days on Monday?

00:00:54   So here we are, events over, I drove home,

00:00:57   I'm sitting in my garage, I got my microphone ready to go.

00:00:59   - Very cool, Myke is on a plane on his way to XOXO

00:01:04   where you and I will be, I don't want to say rendezvousing,

00:01:07   but I'm going to say rendezvousing tomorrow,

00:01:09   so we'll see each other very shortly.

00:01:12   - You said it, you might not want to,

00:01:13   but you said it, there it is.

00:01:15   - I did, you know, boards just come out,

00:01:17   it's very confusing.

00:01:19   So big day today, really one of the most densely packed

00:01:24   Apple events I can think of in recent history.

00:01:27   We're gonna get into what they announced

00:01:29   and break it down and your thoughts on it.

00:01:31   But sort of from a meta perspective,

00:01:35   it's a little bit of a unique event, right?

00:01:36   Usually they have two fall events,

00:01:38   the iPhone being one and the iPad being the other.

00:01:42   Those were together today, they didn't say anything,

00:01:45   I don't think, about an October event happening or not.

00:01:47   But sort of a weird event, weird venue, right?

00:01:50   A venue they haven't used in a long, long time.

00:01:54   And what were your thoughts?

00:01:55   Did it feel any different being there?

00:01:57   - Some of the details change.

00:02:01   It's a different venue.

00:02:02   It's in a different, not really different part of town.

00:02:05   It's about five or six blocks away from Moscone,

00:02:07   I would say, maybe seven or eight.

00:02:09   So I parked in a different parking lot.

00:02:11   There's a routine to some of these places

00:02:17   'cause we've been there so many times.

00:02:18   And this is different because this was the

00:02:21   Civic Auditorium in San Francisco right next to City Hall.

00:02:23   So a little bit different.

00:02:24   Um, and it was also like one of the hottest days of the year in San Francisco.

00:02:28   So that was a little bit different.

00:02:29   But, um, you know, once you get in there, I will say the seats in that theater are

00:02:33   fantastic.

00:02:34   There were, we were, we were packed in like sardines at the Flint center in

00:02:37   Cupertino and the setup that they had.

00:02:39   And, uh, at the, at the civic was, uh, was really, really nice.

00:02:44   So once, you know, you see the same people and you say hello and the doors open and

00:02:47   you go in and you sit down and you do your job and, um, you know, it was a, it

00:02:50   was a different kind of place, but it was very nice. Really well. They obviously

00:02:55   spent a huge amount of time setting up the venue to be exactly the way they

00:02:59   wanted it. And then they had room left over for these hands-on areas on

00:03:05   opposite sides of the hall. So there are two different hands-on areas. And yeah,

00:03:10   it was information dense. It was packed. When the rumors

00:03:15   started to swirl yesterday, especially that they weren't potentially going to

00:03:20   even do an event in in October and they were just gonna unload everything today

00:03:24   that it had to be this way because there's just so much. And the I saw some

00:03:29   people sort of talking on Twitter is it was it true that the place does not have

00:03:34   air conditioning? Sounds I know it's different in California so that sounds

00:03:38   brutal. So there is air conditioning although it was looked like there was

00:03:43   just these big things on the outside of the venue with these giant like tubes

00:03:46   running into the building. So I don't know whether there was like temporary

00:03:50   air conditioning or whether that's the air conditioning system for that venue.

00:03:53   San Francisco does not usually get very warm. Today, you know, as I'm speaking to

00:03:57   you, it's 97 degrees outside and that does not happen here. I'm a little north

00:04:02   of San Francisco. We're usually a little bit warmer but not like not a lot. And

00:04:06   San Francisco today, likewise, beautiful warm day, hot day, very rare and

00:04:12   and you know people who live in San Francisco don't have air conditioning. So

00:04:15   So it wasn't too surprising.

00:04:17   From where we were sitting up, we were sitting dead center.

00:04:21   My group was right behind the camera well.

00:04:24   So toward the top, it was hot.

00:04:27   It was definitely hot, but, you know,

00:04:31   but I think there was some air conditioning.

00:04:33   You could actually hear the air conditioning.

00:04:35   When things were quiet, you could actually hear a hum

00:04:37   that was the air conditioning being left on

00:04:39   because otherwise we would have all died.

00:04:41   When you got into the hands-on areas,

00:04:42   they were like meat lockers.

00:04:44   It was beautiful, actually.

00:04:45   after sitting for two hours in the warmth

00:04:47   and in a stuffy environment.

00:04:48   It was really nice to go into the hands-on area.

00:04:51   And down there, not only were you low down,

00:04:53   so it was cooler,

00:04:55   but I think that's where the AC was coming in,

00:04:57   and that was glorious.

00:04:58   -Yeah, and I saw a tweet from Gruber

00:05:01   saying that there were a lot of Apple employees there,

00:05:03   more than he felt was normal, which is nice, I think.

00:05:07   -Yeah. -Yeah, it was a --

00:05:09   Well, it's a huge venue, and the thing is,

00:05:11   They don't size the press list based on the size of the venue.

00:05:16   They size the press list based on the size of the hands-on areas, because you

00:05:21   can't have a thousand press and only have a handful of iPad Pros and iPhones

00:05:28   and Apple TVs to show people, because it just becomes a zoo.

00:05:31   They're actually, they limit how many people, the fire marshal sets a limit on

00:05:34   how many people can get into each of those areas.

00:05:36   So they have to constrain by that, but they can have Apple employees come

00:05:41   And what was funny is they were sitting on the sides

00:05:43   and we were kind of in the middle.

00:05:45   And so you can't see this in the video,

00:05:49   but you could hear it in the venue.

00:05:50   Like you could tell when it was sort of a general

00:05:52   like applause line when somebody was saying

00:05:55   something impressive and there was sort of general applause.

00:05:57   And you could tell when there was kind of like

00:05:59   the Apple employees were told to applaud.

00:06:01   (laughing)

00:06:02   Because the sound came from just the sides

00:06:05   and not the middle so much.

00:06:07   But yeah, there were a lot of Apple employees there

00:06:09   and VIPs and then some press.

00:06:10   But my impression is that it was like four digit number

00:06:14   of Apple employees and three digit number of press,

00:06:17   like low three digit number of press.

00:06:19   - Well, Tim Cook opened up saying that there was a lot to do

00:06:24   and there was no time for updates,

00:06:25   skipped over the normal, this is how retail's doing,

00:06:28   this is how the app store's doing stuff,

00:06:30   and kind of jumped right into the first topic of the day,

00:06:33   which was Apple Watch, which is what will be the beginning

00:06:37   throughout a theme that this episode of Jason was right. So Myke was right about

00:06:44   some things but you are right today. He was. About some things. I got some I got

00:06:49   some things right too Myke. You know when we talked about the last week about

00:06:53   whether they would they would really pack it all in I said eh I could see how

00:06:56   they would do it but I my gut feeling was that they that they wouldn't go that

00:06:59   way and you know I'm fortunate that my fallback was right but yeah it was it

00:07:05   It was super packed and I like the no time for updates.

00:07:07   Quite honestly, the updates stuff,

00:07:09   although it can be interesting,

00:07:10   especially if you're doing some Apple tea leaf reading

00:07:14   about like, what did they choose to say

00:07:16   and what numbers did they throw out?

00:07:17   Sometimes those numbers are numbers

00:07:19   you can't get anywhere else, but come on, it's padding.

00:07:22   It's filler.

00:07:23   It's because they don't have more to say.

00:07:24   And Tim Cook seems to be much less concerned

00:07:29   about dumping it than Steve Jobs was.

00:07:31   Tim Cook is, I feel like this is gonna be the new normal now

00:07:34   is that we're not gonna get updates,

00:07:35   or if we do get updates,

00:07:36   they're gonna be a different kind of updates,

00:07:37   'cause they still did an update,

00:07:39   but they did the update in the iPhone section

00:07:41   about the iPhone.

00:07:42   They didn't do like a general business update

00:07:44   about retail and stuff like that at the beginning,

00:07:46   and that's fine, nobody is there to see that stuff.

00:07:49   So I think it's good that they said,

00:07:52   "No time for updates."

00:07:54   - Yeah, so they jump right into the Apple Watch,

00:07:56   and again, there's a little bit of an update,

00:07:59   sort of a little fake update

00:08:00   talking about the customer satisfaction being 97%.

00:08:03   - Yes.

00:08:04   Good customer sat.

00:08:06   Tim didn't say customer sat, he said customer satisfaction.

00:08:09   I wonder if they coached him out of customer sat.

00:08:11   - Yeah, I wanna give whoever coached him out of it

00:08:14   a high five.

00:08:14   But they talked about how people have really connected

00:08:20   and really enjoyed the product.

00:08:21   There was a line about closing the rings

00:08:23   to become a healthy obsession, which I thought was nice.

00:08:25   And I think I see that in a lot of my nerd friends,

00:08:28   using the Apple Watch for fitness

00:08:30   where they didn't necessarily think they would.

00:08:32   So kind of a nice, like a feel good,

00:08:35   little update on the watch.

00:08:36   And then they talked about a watch OS2 again,

00:08:38   as you know, Apple kind of revisits the software updates

00:08:41   as they get closer.

00:08:42   - Yeah, the watch was introduced a year ago,

00:08:48   and it's been in the public consciousness for a year,

00:08:51   even though it's only been in our hands for a few months,

00:08:54   it's been known for a year.

00:08:56   And so they needed to set the stage there.

00:09:00   they're not going to ship a new watch, right? So what do they do? The answer is they talk about

00:09:04   watchOS 2, which is coming next week, and they talked about some new hardware. And I think that's

00:09:11   interesting that, you know, you don't have to update the internals, but you can do some new

00:09:15   metal finishes, you can do some new bands, and they did both of those. Rose gold and gold in the sport

00:09:21   model, which I, you know, if you wanted a gold watch, if you think, you know, your clothes,

00:09:26   your complexion, whatever, go better with gold than with silver jewelry. Now you can do something

00:09:32   that isn't a solid gold watch because you can get the anodized aluminum gold. I think that's good.

00:09:36   Lots of different bands. And then also there's that Hermes deal that they make. And forgive me

00:09:43   if I'm mangling that, but this is a high-end brand with a specific band and a specific face

00:09:51   that you can get that is a custom Hermes band or a face. And that's an interesting deal. And we'll

00:09:59   see whether we see more of those where a luxury brand is kind of making a deal with Apple to do a

00:10:06   version of the Apple Watch that is highlighting their brand. So there's a lot of Apple Watch news

00:10:13   for a product that didn't get updated because it really only shipped a few months ago.

00:10:17   - Yeah, the band stuff was sort of expected,

00:10:21   and they kinda talked about, you know,

00:10:22   this is some new ways to make it your own

00:10:25   additional customization.

00:10:27   And I for one liked the new colors of the sports bands.

00:10:30   There was an orange one that kinda jumped out at me,

00:10:32   and having more options is nice.

00:10:34   If you go on that band page now in the store,

00:10:36   there are just lots of options for the sports bands.

00:10:40   The leather one got updated, still a lot of good stuff.

00:10:43   - Yeah, I think it's really good.

00:10:47   So my wife's birthday is next week, and we had talked about getting her an Apple Watch.

00:10:52   She wants an Apple Watch.

00:10:54   And we got to the point where we basically would have bought one last week, except we

00:11:00   figured there'd be new stuff today.

00:11:02   And it's great because now she's got that much more to choose from, I think, including

00:11:07   she didn't love a lot of the sport band colors.

00:11:09   So she's got those and some different leather options.

00:11:13   different color options for the for the sport model if she went to the sport

00:11:18   model. So it's all good. I think that I think that's really great. I think the

00:11:21   more just as maddening as it is to have all those choices because you end up

00:11:24   being super conflicted it's good to have the choices because people choose to buy

00:11:29   or not buy sometimes based on some very specific things like if the color band

00:11:33   you want isn't available that might be enough to get you to say no. So now there

00:11:37   are more bands. It's good. So they said that watch OS 2 is going to be out on

00:11:42   on what they say the 16th alongside iOS 9?

00:11:47   You're if that's what you heard then that's great the one of the things about

00:11:51   being inside the event bubble is if you missed it as it

00:11:53   flew by the first time you missed it and I still haven't caught up because I've

00:11:57   only you know I've only seen what I've seen

00:11:59   and heard what I've heard and and there's lots of details that are on in

00:12:03   PR and on the website and I just absolutely like if you ask me to name

00:12:06   all the colors of the of the watch uh watch bands I couldn't do

00:12:10   do that either. I have a picture of them that I took, but I don't know. So, sounds

00:12:14   right. I mean, next week is when iOS 9 and watchOS 2 should be happening, I think.

00:12:18   Yeah, so it's coming up. You know, it's always interesting to watch Apple

00:12:24   paces these things or watchOS 2. You know, got a lot of, basically, got announced at

00:12:28   W2C, got a lot of stage time, and they always have these events right before

00:12:32   the release to kind of, you know, remind people to get the last, the GMs are out,

00:12:36   So the last beta builds of iOS 9 and watchOS 2 and all this stuff shipped today,

00:12:41   kind of get everybody ready and point in the same direction for the for the 16th.

00:12:46   So gonna be a busy a busy couple weeks. Yeah this is the high season I mean this

00:12:53   is for I know this is inside baseball for people who you know who listen to us

00:12:57   but for the people who write and talk about Apple stuff this is this is the

00:13:04   busiest time of year.

00:13:06   In some ways it's a culmination

00:13:07   if you've been working on stuff over the summer,

00:13:09   like how our friend Federico Fatici

00:13:11   is working on his iOS review,

00:13:13   which he now has a very clear deadline for that one.

00:13:16   And then we also got some clarity in a offhanded way

00:13:20   about the El Capitan release,

00:13:22   which is gonna be by the end of the month, September 30th.

00:13:25   So, I'm gonna be writing tens of thousands of words

00:13:28   in the next two weeks about various products.

00:13:33   in the next three weeks really.

00:13:34   And so will most of my colleagues,

00:13:36   or we'll be talking about them.

00:13:38   I mean, this is it.

00:13:39   This is the big season for Apple stuff.

00:13:42   So it's gonna be crazy.

00:13:43   - So we're gonna get into some more of that,

00:13:44   but we are going to take a quick break.

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00:15:14   So Jason up next on the the Tim Cook checklist today

00:15:22   - iPad Pro. - Yes.

00:15:25   - iPad Pro. - Yes.

00:15:26   - He seemed very excited. - It's real.

00:15:28   - It's real. - He seemed very excited

00:15:28   on stage.

00:15:29   - Tim Cook loves that iPad.

00:15:32   He always talks about how much he loves that iPad.

00:15:35   And so this is the, this is it.

00:15:38   This is the next step, which is an enormous iPad.

00:15:41   - Yeah, so it's, we can knock through the specs real quick.

00:15:45   12.9 inch display, 2732 by 2048.

00:15:49   the width of it or that is actually like the height of the iPad Air. They had some weird

00:15:54   overlay to show that you can have a full iPad Air sized application and a slide over at

00:16:01   the same time, which is really crazy.

00:16:03   And a split view, a split screen, not a slide over. So it's pretty crazy that holding an

00:16:12   an iPad Air upright in portrait mode.

00:16:17   That's one side of the screen in landscape orientation

00:16:24   on the iPad Pro, and then there's room for another app

00:16:27   next to it.

00:16:28   - So I saw some hands-on photos and stuff,

00:16:31   like places like The Verge had one.

00:16:33   Is it look as huge in person as it does in photos?

00:16:37   - I mean, it's big, but we're trained to think

00:16:42   of the iPad a certain way, and this goes against that.

00:16:45   What struck me about it, it reminded me of when I,

00:16:49   I reviewed a Sony tablet a few years ago for TechHive,

00:16:51   and I remember how light it was and thinking that

00:16:54   how much denser and heavier the Apple, the iPads felt,

00:16:59   and the iPad Air came out and I was like,

00:17:01   all right, this is better.

00:17:02   But I'll tell you too,

00:17:03   so it weighs what the original iPad weighed,

00:17:05   but it's spread out over this 13 inch diagonal display area.

00:17:10   And as a result, it feels super light because although it's,

00:17:15   although it's very large, it's so light that it just does,

00:17:20   it doesn't feel particularly dense to me to the point where

00:17:22   you can hold it with one hand, totally reasonable.

00:17:24   Like it's that light.

00:17:25   It doesn't matter that it's big because it is still,

00:17:30   remarkably light.

00:17:32   And, but yeah, if you're used to a full-sized iPad,

00:17:36   you'll look at this and be like, oh my God, this is huge.

00:17:38   But it's like tearing the display off of a 13-inch laptop.

00:17:42   - Not recommended. - Kind of.

00:17:43   - You're not trying it at home.

00:17:45   - No, don't do it.

00:17:46   - It's big, but Apple also drove home

00:17:49   the power behind it, right?

00:17:50   So it's A9X, they say it's 1.8 times faster than the Air 2.

00:17:55   Console class, GPU, which I think

00:17:58   is a really interesting turn of phrase.

00:18:00   This is a statement they made,

00:18:06   it's sort of a weird way of putting it I think but according to Apple the iPad

00:18:10   Pro is faster than 80% of portable PCs that shipped in the last six months and

00:18:15   the graphics are faster than 90% of those same PCs. That's sort of a I see

00:18:21   where they're going with that right they're saying this has the power of a

00:18:24   laptop and actually a really good laptop but it's sort of a weird way to frame it

00:18:29   because they didn't really they didn't really sell why that power was there

00:18:35   I don't think.

00:18:37   Yeah, it's, um, I don't know.

00:18:43   Apple, when they do these presentations, how they frame stuff can be fascinating, and how they cannot talk about the competition a lot of the time.

00:18:50   Sometimes they will bring up the competition to ridicule them.

00:18:53   Other times they will sort of define the universe as being like what Apple does, and then other stuff is like not even worth talking about.

00:19:01   And this was an interesting one where it's like,

00:19:04   yeah, it's faster than most PCs

00:19:06   that have shipped in the last six months,

00:19:08   but we're not gonna get into it more than that.

00:19:11   I don't know, this whole story is funny

00:19:13   'cause they're saying this is an iPad

00:19:16   with the power of a PC, but it's still an iPad.

00:19:19   And that is very different than the Windows tablets

00:19:22   that are PCs that are also tablets.

00:19:25   And they're convertibles or it's something like the Surface

00:19:28   where you can attach a keyboard and a pointing device,

00:19:32   and then you've got something that's different.

00:19:34   So what are they trying to say here?

00:19:35   I mean, they're trying to say,

00:19:36   look, this is a super powerful thing,

00:19:38   and that's why it costs what a PC costs,

00:19:41   because it's got the power of a PC in it.

00:19:44   It's just, it's an interesting idea

00:19:47   to wrap your head around,

00:19:48   like an even more expensive, even larger iPad

00:19:51   with even more power.

00:19:53   Although I was talking to somebody

00:19:54   who is a very smart person who is saying,

00:19:58   I don't need more graphics power.

00:19:59   I don't need more processor power.

00:20:02   Give them, put more RAM in it.

00:20:04   And we don't, I'm not sure we know how much RAM

00:20:06   is in this thing, but you know, that's what this,

00:20:08   this person was saying is, you know, I'd take,

00:20:10   I just take it with, like, if it's,

00:20:12   even if it's got what the iPad Air 2 has,

00:20:14   which is two, two gigs of RAM, it's like not enough.

00:20:16   Give me more, give me four.

00:20:18   'Cause you wouldn't ship a PC with two gigs of RAM.

00:20:20   So it'll be interesting to see what,

00:20:23   my gut feeling is that it probably doesn't.

00:20:25   It probably only has two gigs of RAM, but I don't know.

00:20:27   The RAM is always interesting with these things.

00:20:29   You know, a lot of people, myself included,

00:20:31   really hope the 6S Plus has more RAM,

00:20:34   the 6 Plus has a 10 series where it gets hamstrung,

00:20:37   when it gets memory constrained.

00:20:39   And Apple draws this graph of like,

00:20:42   this is what the CPU does, this is what the GPU does,

00:20:44   but they've, the RAM has moved so much slower

00:20:49   than those other things, they just don't talk about it.

00:20:51   And so you wait till review units go out

00:20:53   and people start testing it and they kind of figure out

00:20:55   how much RAM has it, or you wait till iFixit tears it down,

00:20:58   and they look up the part number.

00:21:00   But yeah, I tend to agree with you,

00:21:02   that's an important metric that Apple's just really silent on

00:21:05   and understand why they do that,

00:21:08   but at the same time, it's a little frustrating.

00:21:11   They don't bring it up at least when it changes.

00:21:13   - Yeah, yeah, well, there's a lot of stuff that Apple,

00:21:18   Apple's happy to put these context list graphs up

00:21:21   that say, or stats of like, it's 80%

00:21:24   or here's a chart about how much faster we are

00:21:27   than the last model or how much we've grown

00:21:28   in the last five years.

00:21:29   They're happy to do that.

00:21:30   It's a little harder to get them to get into the details

00:21:33   of the tech specs.

00:21:34   And it is interesting too what tech specs they get into

00:21:37   and what they don't.

00:21:37   'Cause they were happy to say that it's the A9X processor,

00:21:40   but they were not happy to talk about things

00:21:43   like how much RAM it has

00:21:44   or what the speed of the processor is.

00:21:46   - Right, it does have the dude that did

00:21:49   throw out your 10 hours of battery life, Jason,

00:21:51   your iPad battery life.

00:21:54   - Ah, yep, you and me both.

00:21:56   That's the solving for X thing.

00:21:58   There it is, what a shock.

00:22:00   10 hours of battery life.

00:22:01   You don't say.

00:22:03   That's what they shoot for.

00:22:04   So of course. - But it is.

00:22:06   Speakers seem better.

00:22:08   But of course the real,

00:22:11   the real story here hardware wise is the keyboard

00:22:15   and the Apple Pencil.

00:22:17   - Yeah, I suppose so.

00:22:18   I mean, I'm excited.

00:22:20   We just did the Clockwise podcast from right outside

00:22:23   and people were, we spent time talking about the keyboard and the pencil.

00:22:27   Um, I'm more excited by the fact that this is an iPad pro and that it's got a

00:22:31   giant screen and that you can do interesting things with all those iOS

00:22:34   nine split screen, uh, features.

00:22:37   I'm more excited about that than I am by the peripherals.

00:22:40   I think the peripherals are interesting and, and it's fine to be excited about

00:22:44   them, but you know, I'm, I'm excited about what this means that there's a new, like

00:22:49   super powerful iOS device and a lot of the features of the iOS 9 seem to have been designed

00:22:55   for it, even though we found out about them sooner and we're told that it worked with

00:23:00   the Air 2.

00:23:01   Now we really understand why they were developed that way.

00:23:04   And like the keyboard, you know, just as the iPhone 6 Plus gets a few extra keys, the software

00:23:10   keyboard on the iPad Pro has like extra rows of keys and extra columns of keys.

00:23:16   So there's lots of stuff like that that kind of fascinates me.

00:23:19   I'm not a, as Myke knows all too well,

00:23:21   I'm not a stylist or pencil or pen person.

00:23:24   So my feelings about the Apple Pencil

00:23:26   are not particularly strong.

00:23:28   I didn't get a chance to use it.

00:23:29   I saw it in action.

00:23:30   I don't know what I would have used it for anyway.

00:23:33   It would have been embarrassing and weird

00:23:35   for me to scribble something on the screen.

00:23:38   Microsoft did a demo of scribbling on things in Word.

00:23:43   Apple had a sample of like scribbling on an email

00:23:46   using a pen.

00:23:47   And I look at that stuff and think,

00:23:48   Maybe somebody uses that, but that seems completely unrealistic to me.

00:23:52   I think artists are going to be very excited by it, designers, people for whom a pen input

00:23:56   makes more sense.

00:23:59   It sounds like this is the same old story with the Apple Pencil, where Apple is integrating

00:24:03   it as well as it can with the hardware and the software.

00:24:07   That gives them a huge advantage over the third-party makers of pens for the iPad, because

00:24:14   Apple can do stuff that they can't, because Apple can put hooks in the software that make

00:24:17   their pen work way better than any other pen and that's probably what will happen

00:24:23   here. It won't kill all the other styluses because they don't work on the

00:24:26   iPad Pro and I don't think there's still gonna be people who want to use a

00:24:29   stylus on an iPad or an iPad mini but it's gonna hurt them for sure because a

00:24:34   lot of their customers will go and buy an iPad Pro and they're gonna want the

00:24:38   they're gonna want the... Yeah the the Microsoft demo was interesting. The only

00:24:41   thing I could think about was A) the keyboard kind of looks like the Surface

00:24:44   keyboard and then you have.

00:24:46   - Yep.

00:24:47   Yeah and Apple said something funny like you've never seen

00:24:49   a keyboard like this before and it's like well we've seen

00:24:51   one that's pretty close to us.

00:24:53   (laughs)

00:24:53   I mean, oh no what they said was that like nobody's used

00:24:58   a keyboard like this before or something like that

00:24:59   and I was like I guess they're saying nobody used

00:25:01   the Surface which might be true but weird.

00:25:04   Yeah I was thinking that too and then they brought

00:25:07   Microsoft on, I mean the truth is Microsoft's iOS apps

00:25:10   are really good, their iPad apps are really good.

00:25:11   Office for iPad is excellent. So, you know, they should be on stage for that.

00:25:16   Yeah, so the the Pencil is just for the iPad Pro at this point. I mean, I assume

00:25:20   that at some point the other iPads might pick up support for this.

00:25:25   I don't know. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe down the road it's possible.

00:25:29   But it's, um, all of the, from my understanding, all of the the force sensitivity and, you know, it can

00:25:36   tell if it's tilted over and all this stuff is happening in the stylus

00:25:40   itself, not on the glass where it is scanning for touch more rapidly when the

00:25:45   when the pencil is engaged, but it's not like the glass is where the the levels

00:25:51   of sensitivity are, it's actually in the tip itself. Right, in the pens, yeah.

00:25:56   Yeah, there's no force sensitivity happening in the actual device, unlike

00:26:00   other iOS devices announced today. Yeah, it's interesting. Instead of

00:26:06   having an eraser, it's got a little cap with a lightning port underneath it and

00:26:09   you just plug it into the iPad Pro and it charges it.

00:26:13   And they say that you can plug it in for 15 seconds

00:26:15   and get 30 minutes of use out of it, which is pretty cool.

00:26:18   So if you run out of battery, you just pop it in,

00:26:21   wait for a minute and then pop it back out

00:26:23   and then you can continue your work.

00:26:26   Artists are gonna love it.

00:26:27   We talked about this in previous episodes, Myke and I,

00:26:30   that artists are gonna love it.

00:26:31   There are a lot of creative people who have really wanted,

00:26:34   they like iOS as a platform, they like Apple stuff,

00:26:37   but they really wanted something better

00:26:39   than what Apple was giving them.

00:26:41   And this is one of those areas where Apple just seemed

00:26:43   to not care about that market.

00:26:45   And with the iPad Pro, they suddenly care

00:26:47   because they feel like this is a product

00:26:49   that that market is gonna embrace with the big screen

00:26:54   and the integrated, optional,

00:26:57   but designed for that product stylist.

00:27:01   - So we have to address,

00:27:06   There's an elephant in the room, right,

00:27:08   with an apple stylus.

00:27:09   There's a very famous moment.

00:27:14   - You know, the elephant's trunk is so delicate

00:27:15   that it could hold a stylus.

00:27:17   I don't know if that's true, I just made that up,

00:27:19   but it could be true.

00:27:20   - It's beautiful.

00:27:21   So 2007, Steve Jobs is on stage.

00:27:24   A very famous image is who wants a stylus?

00:27:27   Ick!

00:27:28   And now, stylus.

00:27:31   So, I can reconcile this.

00:27:35   What do you think about it?

00:27:36   Steve Jobs was talking about the old capacitive touch screens required you to use a stylus

00:27:41   to do all your touching.

00:27:44   So I mean, people talk about that a lot, but that was the context back then, was literally

00:27:49   like if you had to pull out a stylus in order to do things on the iPhone, then Apple would

00:27:56   have failed because they didn't want to do that.

00:28:00   I think that when Apple shows this pen and shows it being used for drawing and other

00:28:06   things that a finger is not good enough for, I think that it's fine.

00:28:12   Although like I said, I think they can push it a little too far when they show, you know,

00:28:16   you can circle things in an email using our markup tool.

00:28:19   Yay!

00:28:20   I don't know if that's a thing that anybody actually wants.

00:28:23   Again, maybe I'm wrong.

00:28:24   But that was when it kind of, my skepticism was strong on that point.

00:28:31   But it's an optional product.

00:28:35   It's an accessory for certain kinds of input on a big screen.

00:28:40   There are styluses for the iPad and have been for ages.

00:28:44   So it's not that great a leap, I would say.

00:28:47   I'd say it would be a different story if there were things you just couldn't do without the

00:28:51   stylus and it had to come bundled with it.

00:28:52   and it had a little stylus pocket and things like that,

00:28:55   but it doesn't have those things.

00:28:57   So it's not a big deal.

00:28:59   - Yeah, I mean even the demos,

00:29:01   the Microsoft guys were using their hands,

00:29:02   using their fingers to draw,

00:29:03   and they'd only pick up the pencil

00:29:05   when it was time to do something really in-depth.

00:29:08   And the same thing with the 3D medical demo

00:29:11   where she's kind of spinning it around

00:29:13   and looking at different parts.

00:29:14   I think it was like a leg and a knee.

00:29:15   And then they go into virtual surgery

00:29:17   and use the pencil like a scalpel or a knife,

00:29:20   which was very upsetting.

00:29:21   But that sort of mixed use, I think,

00:29:24   is what Apple is hoping people will,

00:29:27   how people will approach it.

00:29:29   - Look, I can draw an arthritis.

00:29:30   Woo!

00:29:31   Yeah, yeah, we'll see.

00:29:32   I mean, there are gonna be certain apps for whom,

00:29:34   and certain users for whom using that

00:29:36   is gonna be appropriate.

00:29:38   And that's fine.

00:29:39   That's great.

00:29:40   - Yep, so it sits above the iPad Air in the line.

00:29:44   I think it's more expensive than I thought it would be.

00:29:47   I was a little surprised.

00:29:50   - Did we jump over the keyboard?

00:29:51   Did we not talk about the keyboard?

00:29:52   We should talk about the keyboard.

00:29:53   - Oh yeah, we just said it looks like the Surface keyboard,

00:29:55   but it's built into the case and it sort of snaps down.

00:29:59   This thing has-- - Yeah.

00:30:00   It's like a smart cover with a extra fold thing.

00:30:07   So you fold the keyboard key caps into the cover

00:30:10   and then the cover goes over the screen.

00:30:12   So it's unlike the Surface keyboard,

00:30:14   which I think is just the keys go up against the screen.

00:30:18   This one's got like an extra fold.

00:30:21   But then from the outside, it looks like a, you know,

00:30:23   it looks like a standard iPad keyboard cover,

00:30:27   or I mean, a smart cover,

00:30:29   but it's actually a keyboard with a little,

00:30:31   the little dome switches,

00:30:32   just like the ones in the MacBook.

00:30:34   And they, you know,

00:30:35   it's got kind of this meshy kind of material

00:30:37   and the keys do move a very small amount

00:30:41   and I could type on it pretty fast, which is nice.

00:30:45   It's, you know, the trade-off is you could bring

00:30:49   a Bluetooth keyboard with you with mechanical keys

00:30:52   and get much more feel and probably type faster,

00:30:56   but that Bluetooth keyboard is not going to fold

00:30:59   over your iPad screen super thin like a smart cover.

00:31:04   - Well, you're not trying hard enough, Jason.

00:31:08   It'll fold.

00:31:10   - It'll fold if you really get on it.

00:31:12   - And the more you make it like a thing

00:31:14   that can be folded over the screen

00:31:15   than the more sacrifice you're making

00:31:17   on one end or another.

00:31:19   But it was, I could see the appeal for some people of,

00:31:22   you know, it's just, it's the thing you carry around.

00:31:24   It's your cover.

00:31:25   And if you fold it out, it's also a keyboard.

00:31:27   That's cool.

00:31:28   And it's got these new three little dots on the side

00:31:31   that is a new access point for this keyboard

00:31:35   and apparently for third-party devices of other kinds too

00:31:38   that I think Logitech made.

00:31:40   According to Dan Frakes, he got some press releases

00:31:42   that Logitech announced that they're making something

00:31:44   works with this too. So you know it provides power and input so you don't

00:31:49   need to use wireless to get input in. So that's interesting too that there may be

00:31:53   other accessories that use those little three dots that are on the side of

00:31:57   the iPad. It's nice that it passes power. I reviewed a bunch of Bluetooth

00:32:00   keyboards recently and you have to pair them all and it's kind of a pain and then

00:32:03   you got to make sure they're charged. Like the last thing you want to do is

00:32:05   charge the keyboard. Like that's just the last thing anyone wants to do. And so

00:32:10   having it draw power from the iPad itself I think is a really good move. It

00:32:14   means that it will always work right there's nothing finicky that could go

00:32:17   wrong or you pop that thing in there you know you'll be you'll be good to go.

00:32:22   It's good. Yeah sure good. Yeah I'm kind of with you I don't I don't really see

00:32:29   that's not a huge traction to me when I've got a keyboard that I use in my

00:32:34   iPad sometimes but it's it's really not like I'm not the target audience for

00:32:39   this but I think the people who are gonna like that it's so much better

00:32:43   are integrated with what they already have.

00:32:45   The iPad and the keyboard are sort of,

00:32:48   they're not one, but they're much closely related now

00:32:52   than they were on other iPads

00:32:55   with third-party hardware keyboards.

00:32:57   - Yeah, sure, sure.

00:32:59   It's surprising it took Apple this long

00:33:00   to provide a keyboard as an option for the iPad,

00:33:04   'cause this is just, you know,

00:33:06   other companies have been selling them for a while now,

00:33:08   there's money to be made there.

00:33:10   But here we've got it,

00:33:11   just for the iPad Pro you know it's good it's a you know it seems like a very nice

00:33:18   keyboard for you know for what it is which is a very super thin thing that

00:33:22   can be folded back up against the screen and then you're not even thinking that

00:33:25   you've got a keyboard with you. The so yeah so it's and there the keyboard and

00:33:32   pencil are both sold separately. Neither of these things are bundled the

00:33:36   keyboard is 169 bucks the pencil is 100 bucks pricey accessories but it's a

00:33:44   pricey tablet honestly. Yeah it's priced like a you know like a laptop basically

00:33:51   it starts at $799 $128 model is $949 you're in MacBook Air territory at that

00:33:58   point if you throw in a you know smart the smart keyboards $169 the pencils $99

00:34:03   I mean it adds up. This is a this is not a it's not a cheap product it's a high

00:34:09   end iPad it's so high end that it is pushed into the you know into the laptop

00:34:15   category and that that's I think one reason why they're not not shying away

00:34:18   from it so much. Yeah I think it the prices really I think they tried to link

00:34:26   the the power in the price a little bit of hey this is more powerful than you

00:34:30   70% of PCs out there or whatever they said.

00:34:33   That helps justify the cost, I think, to some people.

00:34:38   Like, hey, this thing is much closer to what

00:34:42   I'm doing on my notebook as far as CPU and GPU performance.

00:34:48   And I think that's all sort of the same story.

00:34:51   That this thing is bigger, it's more powerful,

00:34:53   it can do more, it's gonna cost more.

00:34:55   So it starts at $799 for the 32 gig,

00:35:00   949 for the 128 and then 1079 for the 128 gig with LTE.

00:35:05   It's the only LTE model on the Pro

00:35:11   which I was a little surprised to see that only,

00:35:15   the LTE only be available on the high end one.

00:35:17   You know, I could see this,

00:35:20   if they're pitching this as a laptop replacement

00:35:22   for certain types of people,

00:35:24   it'd be nice to have that always on data option

00:35:28   on both models maybe,

00:35:29   but I'm biased in that I've only bought LTE iPads

00:35:33   for several years now and I really like having data

00:35:36   on my iPad anywhere.

00:35:37   So I know that I'm not in the majority there,

00:35:41   but what about you?

00:35:44   Do you care about LTE on an iPad at all?

00:35:46   And some people don't.

00:35:48   - I kind of don't.

00:35:49   I always liked the idea of it,

00:35:51   but as long as I can tether to my iPhone,

00:35:55   I kind of don't care and I can tether to my iPhone.

00:35:57   So I kind of don't care.

00:35:58   I would have to spend an extra $10 a month.

00:36:00   I'm very rarely in a situation where I feel like,

00:36:02   oh, if only I had data on my iPad right now,

00:36:05   well, my iPad mini actually is a cellular model

00:36:07   and I've got the T-Mobile SIM

00:36:08   that gives me the 200 megabytes for free every month.

00:36:11   And I never use it.

00:36:12   I just, I never use it.

00:36:13   I use the iPad.

00:36:14   I never use that feature.

00:36:16   So, you know, because my plan works fine with tethering,

00:36:21   I don't pay any extra for the tethering

00:36:22   and I pay extra if I put it on my data plan

00:36:25   into the shared pool, I'd pay $10 a month.

00:36:27   and plus buying that model.

00:36:30   So I haven't done that.

00:36:31   And you know, it's there.

00:36:33   It's making that a premium feature

00:36:35   and charging more for it.

00:36:36   That's part of the game that Apple has played

00:36:38   with other products and other features all along.

00:36:42   So not too surprising, I would say.

00:36:45   This is not a cheap product, but it's not meant to be.

00:36:49   - It's not.

00:36:50   Is it a product that you are interested in as an iPad user?

00:36:53   (laughing)

00:36:57   I don't know, I don't know.

00:36:58   I'd say I'm intrigued by it because of the big screen space

00:37:03   and that I use an iPad a lot.

00:37:06   But I'm still, having used the iPad Air 2 this summer,

00:37:09   I'm only now coming around to the fact

00:37:12   that maybe I don't want the iPad mini 4

00:37:14   because the iPad Air 2,

00:37:17   it's nice having that extra screen space

00:37:20   and it is so light that, you know,

00:37:22   I'm not sure I wanna go back to the mini

00:37:24   when I did go back to the mini for a week

00:37:26   when I was on my trip, I was like, oh, it's so little.

00:37:28   It's so nice.

00:37:29   So I'm completely at sea now about what iPad is right

00:37:32   for me, I'm not sure.

00:37:34   Because since I don't, I mean, I'm not,

00:37:37   the size kind of doesn't matter in terms of toting it around.

00:37:40   And so at that point, wouldn't you want the big one,

00:37:43   other than the expense of it,

00:37:44   wouldn't you want the big one,

00:37:45   everything's big and beautiful.

00:37:46   And you can do, use all the multitasking features,

00:37:49   which are kind of cramped honestly on the iPad Air too,

00:37:53   but will not be cramped so much on this thing.

00:37:56   I don't know, probably not.

00:37:58   But if I could get to the point

00:38:00   where I could be more productive, I would say this.

00:38:05   It's great that this product is here

00:38:06   and it's great that iOS 9 has some features

00:38:08   that make productivity on the iPad better

00:38:11   and fit well with the existence of this product.

00:38:14   But boy, Apple should have been doing productivity features

00:38:18   on the iPad version of iOS for years now.

00:38:22   You know, that, the stuff that they're introducing this time,

00:38:26   maybe they couldn't do split screen stuff

00:38:30   until they had more RAM.

00:38:32   I can see that, but things like the insertion point

00:38:35   on the keyboard and maybe slide over

00:38:39   and some other, you know, better support

00:38:42   for Bluetooth keyboards.

00:38:44   I feel like there's so much more to do here

00:38:47   in terms of making iOS a better

00:38:50   professional productivity operating system,

00:38:54   and that Apple only really kind of realized

00:38:57   that was a thing they needed to worry about this year.

00:39:00   And I think that's disappointing

00:39:01   because they could be further along than they are.

00:39:06   'Cause I look at this and I think,

00:39:07   could I use this as my traveling machine?

00:39:09   And the answer is no, because there's some stuff,

00:39:12   and some of that's because I do podcasts

00:39:14   and that's a weird thing I know

00:39:15   that most people aren't gonna do,

00:39:18   but there's probably other equivalent things

00:39:20   for other use cases.

00:39:22   For me, the fact that iOS is not capable

00:39:24   of doing the sound stuff that macOS is,

00:39:27   that you can't plug in a microphone

00:39:29   and record what you're talking about

00:39:32   while it's also piping through an app.

00:39:33   That doesn't work and works on the Mac great

00:39:36   and it doesn't work and podcasters rely on that.

00:39:38   It's just, it's not there.

00:39:39   So I can't use it.

00:39:42   And I feel like eventually,

00:39:44   I don't want them to clutter it up with a lot of junk,

00:39:46   but there's a lot of things that iOS just kind of doesn't do

00:39:48   or doesn't do well, like in the demo that they had

00:39:51   from Microsoft and they had Excel and they had Word

00:39:53   and they had a chart and they said,

00:39:54   look, you can copy it over here and paste it over there.

00:39:56   It's like they're right next to each other.

00:39:57   Why can't you drag and drop?

00:39:59   Well, iOS doesn't do that, right?

00:40:01   I mean, we just don't do that.

00:40:03   We got them side by side, give us time.

00:40:06   We'll do drag and drop eventually, but not yet.

00:40:09   Now you just got to copy from one

00:40:10   and go over to the other one and paste it in.

00:40:12   It's like, they'll get there, but it does feel,

00:40:15   I get that feeling a little bit of like,

00:40:16   maybe they should have started earlier.

00:40:19   So I don't know.

00:40:20   I feel like, you know, this is great hardware

00:40:22   that maybe is let down a little bit

00:40:24   by the fact that the OS is still not mature

00:40:26   for tasks like this.

00:40:31   - Yeah, no, I totally agree.

00:40:32   I mean, as capable as this tablet looks,

00:40:35   and as I look at the pencil

00:40:38   and there's a novelty aspect to it for me,

00:40:41   but it's not something that I could replace

00:40:45   not iBook Pro with. It's just not and for that reason with the price it's

00:40:49   it's really not something I'm looking at picking up honestly. Yeah yeah I other

00:40:56   than as a comic book reader I look at it and go "you're reading comics on that

00:40:59   would be really really great they'd be big and pretty and all that" but yeah

00:41:02   it's it's probably not it's probably not there yet. You wanna take a break?

00:41:09   Yeah. This week... This is mine. Although I can talk to... I can send things to you.

00:41:17   This episode is being brought to you by Stamps.com. I've talked about them

00:41:20   before. When I talk about this with Myke, I can't, you know, I can send him

00:41:24   things, but he can't send things back to me because he is not in America.

00:41:28   Although I guess he is right now. He could get a stamp or he could use

00:41:30   Stamps.com and he could send things to me now. Because this is a service for

00:41:34   people in the US. It is better than leasing a postage meter because that is

00:41:39   expensive. There are multi-year commitments and hidden fees. It's better

00:41:42   than going to the post office because if you're like me, you don't really want to

00:41:45   walk over there. It takes time. You don't want to drive over there. At least I can walk to my

00:41:49   post office. That is true. But then you wait in line and there are people and

00:41:54   you have to interact with people. Sometimes I just don't want to interact

00:41:56   with people. Fortunately there is a better way and that is Stamps.com.

00:42:00   With Stamps.com you can buy and print official US postage for any letter or package

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00:42:09   it's better and easier to use than a postage meter at a fraction of the cost.

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00:42:29   In fact, you can get some special postage discounts with Stamps.com.

00:42:33   So it's really a no-brainer.

00:42:35   I have used it recently.

00:42:36   I used it to send some stuff.

00:42:38   We bought some stuff in Spokane

00:42:40   at the Science Fiction Convention

00:42:42   that I went to for people who work

00:42:44   on the Incomparable podcast,

00:42:46   one of my many other podcasts that I do.

00:42:49   And I needed to send one of those people a package

00:42:52   with some of the stuff from Spokane.

00:42:54   And I used stamps.com to put that package together,

00:42:57   handed it to my letter carrier, and I was done.

00:43:00   And they got it a couple days later.

00:43:02   It was great.

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00:43:14   Before you do anything else,

00:43:15   click on the microphone at the top of the homepage

00:43:17   and type in upgrade.

00:43:19   That's Stamps.com, enter upgrade.

00:43:21   Thank you so much to Stamps.com for supporting this show

00:43:24   and all of Relay FM.

00:43:26   - All right, so we've had the watch,

00:43:30   we've had the iPad Pro,

00:43:32   and now we're in the living room, Jason.

00:43:33   We have moved into the living room

00:43:35   with the new Apple TV.

00:43:36   - We are in the living room.

00:43:37   Welcome to the living room.

00:43:39   New Apple TV.

00:43:41   I was writing stories about how the Apple TV

00:43:43   would be great with apps like three or four years ago.

00:43:45   And look, it finally happened.

00:43:47   - You're a thought leader is what the kids say.

00:43:50   - Yeah, I was leading a little too far here I think.

00:43:54   - So it's new hardware,

00:43:55   which enables all this new software stuff.

00:43:57   They're still selling the Apple TV as we know it today,

00:44:00   but it doesn't get any of the new stuff, which is kinda sad.

00:44:04   But you know, Cook opened this with kind of the phrase

00:44:08   that the TV experience hasn't changed very much in decades.

00:44:12   And he compared it to smartphones in the mobile industry,

00:44:15   which of course has just completely changed over time.

00:44:19   Really since 2007 with the iPhone, 2010 with the iPad.

00:44:26   And his argument was that the apps are a core to that.

00:44:29   So you have these really rich apps that provide content

00:44:32   or provide entertainment.

00:44:34   And Apple seems to think that,

00:44:36   hey, it worked for the smartphone, it worked for the tablet,

00:44:38   it can work for the TV as well.

00:44:40   - Yeah, it is funny.

00:44:44   You know, I applaud them for the way they phrase this

00:44:49   about how the future of TV is apps.

00:44:52   Because if you're gonna be on,

00:44:55   if you're not gonna be replacing people's primary input,

00:44:58   which is like traditional cable, then what do you have?

00:45:03   And the answer is, we've got apps.

00:45:04   You've got all the apps that are other ways,

00:45:06   alternate ways from traditional TV.

00:45:09   So I think it's smart on that level,

00:45:11   because what they aren't offering is their own

00:45:14   over the top video service or something like that.

00:45:17   They're still sort of input number two.

00:45:19   And so saying apps is what we're about right now

00:45:22   is the right thing to do, because that's pretty accurate.

00:45:25   They're saying this is the universe that we're playing in.

00:45:29   And also the strength of Apple

00:45:32   in terms of its development community.

00:45:34   Like the App Store and app development,

00:45:37   that's really a place where they have it up on like Roku.

00:45:41   I mean, I know there are apps for Roku

00:45:42   and people develop some apps for Roku, but come on.

00:45:45   Like Apple on day one is gonna have a better developer story

00:45:50   and a better supported platform for apps than Roku.

00:45:53   On day one, it will.

00:45:55   And you know, I've got Roku's, they're nice.

00:45:59   And you can do apps for them

00:46:00   and you can play Angry Birds on them and stuff, but come on.

00:46:03   I mean, because the iOS development sphere is so huge,

00:46:07   it takes very little effort, in fact, on Apple's part

00:46:10   to get the Apple TV to have an enormous set of things

00:46:15   that can run on it.

00:46:17   And Fire TV from Amazon has a decent amount of apps

00:46:20   because they are tied in with --

00:46:22   you know, you can basically port Android apps to it

00:46:25   or convert them enough to get them in the store,

00:46:28   or do enough work on them to work with the interface model.

00:46:32   And, you know, because it's based on Android,

00:46:34   there's a better story for Fire TV.

00:46:37   And Roku is good, but their story isn't as good.

00:46:42   Amazon's story isn't as good.

00:46:43   So Apple, you know, this is their strength.

00:46:45   So why would you not play it up and say,

00:46:48   "iOS developers, now you have access to the TV."

00:46:50   Now, a lot of iOS developers don't want it or care about it.

00:46:53   But if you're in certain fields, especially games,

00:46:58   but also entertainment.

00:46:59   If you've got video or audio content,

00:47:01   I think that you're gonna wanna be there.

00:47:03   And then they demoed some other kind of wacky uses

00:47:05   like Zillow and Gilt where you're doing shopping

00:47:09   for houses or clothes or things like that.

00:47:12   I suspect that will be less popular,

00:47:16   but isn't it nice that somebody like Major League Baseball

00:47:19   can make an MLB app for the Apple TV

00:47:21   with all these cool features in it,

00:47:23   as opposed to the bare bones version

00:47:25   that they were able to do using the private, secret,

00:47:30   Apple, old Apple TV channel building interface

00:47:34   where everything was super simple

00:47:36   and basically looked like something

00:47:37   out of the first Apple TV.

00:47:39   And their demo app that they did on stage looked great.

00:47:42   I mean, they're great developers

00:47:43   who didn't have a chance to really do something cool

00:47:46   on Apple TV until now.

00:47:48   And you'll see that from others too.

00:47:50   - Yeah, it was interesting.

00:47:51   I was talking to my wife about it after the event

00:47:54   and I brought up the Airbnb app,

00:47:56   which they showed on stage,

00:47:57   and she actually liked the idea.

00:47:59   We've been looking at doing some traveling,

00:48:02   and especially with Airbnb, right,

00:48:05   you were looking at an iPad,

00:48:06   and you're sort of like, the family's huddled around.

00:48:08   It's like, what about this place?

00:48:09   What about that place?

00:48:10   And I agree with you that I don't think

00:48:12   that's gonna be the mainstream type of app.

00:48:15   I think the mainstream apps are gonna be

00:48:17   what you expect on TV, games, and content.

00:48:20   But I do think there is room for these other types of apps

00:48:23   where it's helpful if more than one person is looking at it.

00:48:26   I don't think we're gonna see a bunch of Twitter clients

00:48:28   on the Apple TV, I hope that we don't.

00:48:31   But I do think there is room for other type of stuff

00:48:34   and it seems, at least today, just a couple hours

00:48:38   after the event, that this is a pretty open thing.

00:48:40   So if other content providers want to bring stuff on board,

00:48:44   that it's very different than the old sort of

00:48:49   you meet the Apple employee in the alley

00:48:51   and he gives you the codes and then you end up

00:48:53   on Apple TV unannounced and no one wants you.

00:48:56   Well, that's where did our developer go? Well, we sent him to Cupertino. Is that a euphemism

00:49:01   for something? No, we actually sent him to Cupertino because it's the only place you

00:49:05   could build this thing. And now we're going to see, yeah, the product's going to be way

00:49:09   better because these apps are going to be able to do more. It's going to be better.

00:49:15   Apple TV interface is old. It is old. This is the second iteration of the Apple TV interface

00:49:21   and it's, you know, it's okay, but it is,

00:49:25   this is gonna be much better.

00:49:26   I mean, what I saw in the demo room,

00:49:28   like it's fast, it looks great, and it's powerful.

00:49:33   And these apps can be really smart

00:49:35   and do interesting things.

00:49:36   They won't all do interesting things.

00:49:38   I think Netflix is committed to basically having every,

00:49:41   Netflix on every device look exactly the same.

00:49:44   But the nice thing about that is that Netflix on Apple TV

00:49:47   will now look like it does everywhere else

00:49:49   that you use Netflix.

00:49:50   And that's what Netflix wants, and I think that's okay.

00:49:55   I think there's no metaphor to break with the Apple TV anymore.

00:49:57   It used to be they all had to look like an Apple TV app, and now they're apps.

00:50:01   They can do whatever crazy thing they want, and that's probably good.

00:50:04   Right.

00:50:05   And like I said, the UI is different.

00:50:08   The OS has been overhauled.

00:50:09   We're going to get to the name in a second.

00:50:11   But the interaction from a user perspective is totally new as well.

00:50:16   gone is the little five-way aluminum remote and its place is a remote with a

00:50:21   glass touchpad which you and Myke spoke about last week. Works over

00:50:25   Bluetooth so you don't have to point it at the thing you can now hide your Apple

00:50:28   TV because you don't need a lot of sight to it which is which is nice if you care

00:50:31   about that sort of thing. And Siri is really a big component of this you still

00:50:38   have all the gestures and they didn't show a keyboard at least in the keynote

00:50:42   I don't know if the OS has a keyboard in it. There is one there you can do

00:50:45   it you can do a picker and click on the little keys if you if you want to.

00:50:50   But yeah it's got a trackpad essentially. You can go you can

00:50:54   tap on or swipe on and you can click it as well. So it's got all of those sort of

00:50:59   gestures available and then it's got some buttons so you can you can have

00:51:05   some tactile buttons from you know menu and volume up and down and things like

00:51:09   that. And it does have some of that you know universal remote support built into

00:51:13   into it so that, you know, theoretically you can control

00:51:15   your TV just with that.

00:51:16   Although I'm skeptical of that, you know,

00:51:21   because that's people's TV sometimes are too complicated

00:51:23   for stuff like that.

00:51:24   So yeah, it's, the remote is funny in the sense that

00:51:29   it's got an accelerometer and a gyroscope in it too.

00:51:34   So you can use it as a gaming,

00:51:37   of like a Wii U kind of gaming device.

00:51:39   Although there was that one demo of the,

00:51:41   the sport game from harmonics where you're sort of like

00:51:46   swinging a baseball bat to tie to the rhythm of a song.

00:51:50   You know, you can do stuff like that in there,

00:51:51   but there seems to be nothing like general,

00:51:54   like an app on the Apple or on the iPhone

00:51:57   that lets you turn an iPhone into a game controller.

00:52:00   It's sort of like, if you want to play a game

00:52:03   with the Apple TV remote and an iPhone, a multiplayer game,

00:52:07   you can do it, but you as the developer need to put the app

00:52:10   on the iPhone that does that.

00:52:12   So like you've got to use the Crossy Road app

00:52:14   to play two-player Crossy Road.

00:52:15   You can't just like launch the remote app

00:52:17   and it turns your iPhone into a remote.

00:52:21   It doesn't work like that.

00:52:22   It's all app-based.

00:52:24   - Yeah, and I think the game demos were fun.

00:52:29   I do wonder about the novelty of some of that.

00:52:32   And I think it's going to take some time for developers

00:52:35   to kind of figure out what works.

00:52:37   On the Apple website,

00:52:38   you have to really look for it, but the thing does come

00:52:42   with at least some sort of support

00:52:45   for third-party controllers.

00:52:48   Apple's not making one, and I agree with Myke

00:52:50   that by Apple not making one, they're making a statement.

00:52:53   The remote that Apple made makes a statement

00:52:55   about the type of games they expect to see on it,

00:52:59   and I think that's fine.

00:53:00   I don't have any dogs in that fight,

00:53:03   but I think it's interesting.

00:53:05   But for me, as far as interface, the most exciting thing

00:53:08   is the Siri stuff in that it's using the same type of search

00:53:12   that's in iOS 9, where iOS 9 you can use the intelligence

00:53:16   and use Siri to search within applications.

00:53:19   And that is here on the Apple TV as well.

00:53:22   In a limited degree, I think they rattled off iTunes,

00:53:24   Netflix, Hulu, HBO, and Showtime.

00:53:27   So I can say-- - Sorry, Amazon.

00:53:29   - Yeah, no Amazon, that's sort of the weird thing here.

00:53:33   but they didn't make it clear if that search is something,

00:53:38   hey, I hit that API and you can search me

00:53:41   or if it's opt-in, but the fact that Siri can do

00:53:45   so much more I think is gonna be great.

00:53:47   You know, in the keynote, I think in the video

00:53:49   they're like, show all the kids movies,

00:53:51   and then someone else in the room says,

00:53:52   oh, but show the new ones, and then just show

00:53:54   the animated ones, and it's whittling down the search.

00:53:56   - Yes.

00:53:57   - If that works, that's a huge improvement right now.

00:54:01   If I wanna watch this, I go into the Netflix app,

00:54:04   oh it's not there, I go to Hulu, oh it's not there,

00:54:06   and oh it's not there, I end up sort of rage buying it.

00:54:10   And this may be able to help with that,

00:54:11   which I think is really key to a more fluid experience.

00:54:14   Right now the Apple TV feels like a bunch of silos

00:54:17   kind of stapled together, and this feels like

00:54:19   it could be much more cohesive from that.

00:54:21   - You don't staple silos together.

00:54:23   - What? - That's not what you do.

00:54:24   I don't know what they do, I don't know what farmers do

00:54:25   to connect their silos, but it's probably not,

00:54:27   doesn't involve staples, I'm just saying.

00:54:29   - Big industrial-sized man-sized staples, Jason.

00:54:33   - Silo staples?

00:54:34   This is good.

00:54:36   You're right.

00:54:37   You see the direction Apple's going with Siri

00:54:40   and connecting it to more data sources,

00:54:41   and here we're seeing it.

00:54:42   Universal search is really great.

00:54:44   Amazon not being there is disappointing,

00:54:46   but they said they'll add others later.

00:54:48   I think that's the idea there is that they'll make,

00:54:51   they'll either make deals or they'll pick up data

00:54:55   from other apps as they come online.

00:54:58   because yeah, Amazon should be there

00:55:02   and maybe they will be at some point

00:55:04   because it would be really nice if you knew that you,

00:55:06   you know, if I'm going to watch a movie or a TV show,

00:55:09   let's look on the Apple TV

00:55:10   because it's going to tell us where we can get it.

00:55:12   And that's, that sure beats other devices

00:55:14   where you have to go over here and then go over there

00:55:17   and then go to this other place.

00:55:18   And what was that?

00:55:19   Was that $4.99 or $5.99?

00:55:21   Are the prices the same or the, it's, you know,

00:55:24   I've bought a movie or rented a movie on iTunes

00:55:28   and discovered that it was on Netflix before, right?

00:55:30   - Yep.

00:55:31   - That sucks.

00:55:32   So this would be good if the more of this, the better.

00:55:36   You know, the danger with Siri demos is that they're demos

00:55:41   and they're perfect because they're demos.

00:55:42   And then in the real world,

00:55:44   like I saw in the demo area afterwards, somebody said,

00:55:47   you know, "Show me all the movies with Sean Connery in it."

00:55:51   And it came back as,

00:55:53   "Show me all the movies with Sean Connery and it."

00:55:56   It said, "I don't know what you're talking about."

00:55:58   I'm like, "Well, probably you don't need 'init.'"

00:56:01   You probably can just say, "With Sean Connery."

00:56:03   But also, as a computer, you do better, right?

00:56:07   Just do a better job, Siri.

00:56:09   You can do better.

00:56:09   And that's gonna happen.

00:56:11   And you're gonna have to learn the tricks

00:56:12   of what's the right way to speak to Siri

00:56:14   to get what I wanna see.

00:56:16   But when it works,

00:56:17   it is an impressive collection of features.

00:56:19   And yeah, I hope it works.

00:56:21   - I think the thing that was most impressive to me

00:56:23   during the Siri demo was

00:56:25   they were watching Modern Family and the demo,

00:56:29   the woman doing the demo basically like

00:56:33   didn't hear how the scene started.

00:56:36   And so she said, what does she say?

00:56:38   The Apple TV backs up 15 seconds

00:56:40   and then turns on captions for that 15 second window,

00:56:43   which is really cool.

00:56:45   - Yeah.

00:56:46   Yeah, that was a smart feature.

00:56:48   You know, I hope that they have more things like that.

00:56:50   'Cause that's good stuff.

00:56:53   - Yeah, absolutely.

00:56:54   the sort of stuff like that sort of little detail is one of those things that

00:56:57   can really set this box apart. I mean a lot a lot of boxes do what the Apple TV

00:57:02   does right there's a lot of competition you just routed off a bunch of them and

00:57:05   if this thing really works the way they say it'll work then that sort of

00:57:11   experience is going to draw to our customers you know and yeah so I'm

00:57:16   excited to get one I have an Apple TV and I can say I can tell you right now

00:57:19   now I will be replacing it with a new one this fall. Yep yep yep absolutely so

00:57:25   I'm looking forward to it. I guess we should talk about the the OS name real

00:57:28   quick because Jason... Oh you mean you mean #JasonWasRight?

00:57:32   #JasonWasRight. I got this one right. TV OS. I wrote a piece of Macworld a couple

00:57:39   weeks ago saying because it was August and we had nothing to talk about saying

00:57:43   okay here's my latest theory Phil Schiller when when Gruber asked him come

00:57:47   on watchOS all lowercase with capital OS,

00:57:50   you're killing me here.

00:57:51   And Schiller said something really weird like,

00:57:54   well, it'll all make sense soon or something like that.

00:57:59   I'm like, what does that mean?

00:58:00   And I've been advocating for a while now

00:58:02   of going back to Mac OS instead of OS 10,

00:58:04   getting off the X, moving along,

00:58:06   getting to version 11, you know, being done with the X.

00:58:11   And now what we have is iOS lowercase i capital OS

00:58:14   that runs the iPad and the iPhone.

00:58:17   and the iPod Touch.

00:58:19   We have WatchOS, which runs the Apple Watch,

00:58:22   and now we have TV, lowercase TV, capital OS,

00:58:25   that runs the Apple TV,

00:58:26   which means that next year will we see Mac OS,

00:58:29   lowercase Mac, uppercase OS?

00:58:31   Maybe, that might actually happen,

00:58:33   but I called it on TV OS,

00:58:35   and so, yeah, yay.

00:58:38   I don't like how it looks at all,

00:58:39   but at least I was right.

00:58:41   - It does look a little weird,

00:58:43   but I think the naming scheme makes sense,

00:58:45   And I think that the Apple TV always had this identity problem where the OS

00:58:50   didn't have a name and maybe it didn't need one because you had to have that

00:58:53   sort of backroom agreement to be on it.

00:58:56   But now that it is a development platform, it's got SDK, it's got APIs on it.

00:59:01   It needed a name.

00:59:02   And I think, I think TVOS is, is a good one.

00:59:06   It obviously fits in.

00:59:07   Yeah, it needed a name and based on iOS is not a good name, right?

00:59:12   It runs iOS, but not really not a good name.

00:59:15   and then when your developers have to develop for it,

00:59:17   you gotta give it, you gotta call it something.

00:59:19   And it isn't really iOS, right?

00:59:21   'Cause it's weird, 'cause it's running

00:59:22   on this outlier device.

00:59:23   So tvOS, let's call it that.

00:59:26   At least it's clear now.

00:59:27   - So we'll put a link to that article in the show notes.

00:59:32   Jason, where can people find the show notes this week?

00:59:35   - Well, since this is episode 53 of Upgrade,

00:59:38   they can find the show notes

00:59:39   at relay.fm/upgrade/53stephen, that's how that works.

00:59:43   or they can look in their podcast app of choice

00:59:46   and it's probably already there.

00:59:48   - It's clever how we name these things really.

00:59:51   Very straightforward.

00:59:53   So it's gonna ship late October.

00:59:57   If you're a developer, you can actually apply

01:00:00   doing a raffle it seems like of a hardware dev kit

01:00:02   so you can be putting apps on it and seeing how it goes.

01:00:06   It's 149 bucks for the 32 gig and 199 for the 64

01:00:12   Did they give you any sort of additional information

01:00:16   about why there are two sizes in the hands-on area?

01:00:19   Is there any news there?

01:00:22   - No, I think the idea there is it's basically

01:00:25   how much space do you want for apps.

01:00:27   And it's not like you can download videos or anything

01:00:30   or sync videos like you could

01:00:31   on the first generation Apple TV.

01:00:33   It's really that they want space for apps

01:00:38   because if you have a lot of apps,

01:00:40   you're gonna want more space

01:00:41   so you don't have to be installing them

01:00:43   and uninstalling them.

01:00:45   - There was a tweet going around earlier saying

01:00:48   that there doesn't seem to be any persistent storage,

01:00:51   which I really don't know what that means

01:00:54   as far as can I at least keep so much game data

01:00:58   on the Apple TV or that's the sort of--

01:01:01   - Looks like apps are limited to 200 megabytes

01:01:03   or something like that.

01:01:03   This goes back to another feature that they announced

01:01:06   which this year, which is this ability

01:01:09   for levels and stuff to load dynamically.

01:01:12   They load on the fly, so the app loads to the next level

01:01:15   and pulls it over the cloud.

01:01:16   So instead of installing 20 gigs on your hard drive,

01:01:20   like on a console, it instead loads things on the fly.

01:01:24   And that was announced for apps for iOS,

01:01:27   but works with tvOS too.

01:01:29   So that's what you're gonna see is slimmed down apps

01:01:34   that can load their content

01:01:36   and delete their content as they go.

01:01:39   I think too there's questions around universal apps and there's some

01:01:45   stuff on the developer site that maybe seems like you could do a universal app

01:01:49   but then the TV app be an add-on and maybe you could charge for that is very

01:01:52   very early in all this I'm sure there'll be lots of follow-up in the coming weeks

01:01:56   but I for one I'm excited to see what developers do with this I think it's

01:02:00   gonna be great to have the Apple TV be a bigger part of the Apple ecosystem it has

01:02:06   always felt like this sort of like weird little guy, right?

01:02:09   It was a hobby, right?

01:02:11   That's what Apple, you know,

01:02:14   that's what Steve Jobs called it years ago,

01:02:15   and I think it's finally graduated from that today.

01:02:18   - Yeah, they're changing the future of TV now apparently.

01:02:22   So, yeah.

01:02:23   So much, I think it needs to sell well

01:02:27   for it to not be a hobby,

01:02:28   but that's where they're headed now.

01:02:30   This is a real development platform,

01:02:32   and it's all good.

01:02:33   That's good, good stuff.

01:02:34   It gets, you know, this is,

01:02:36   Apple TV is a conduit to get the power of app,

01:02:39   you know, app developers apps onto TV sets,

01:02:43   on the big screens.

01:02:44   And, you know, I don't,

01:02:47   I don't feel like this is,

01:02:50   I think it's a false thing to say,

01:02:52   does this mean that it's gonna compete with game consoles?

01:02:55   You know, I think not.

01:02:57   I think it sort of does, but more doesn't,

01:03:01   if that makes sense.

01:03:03   maybe it doesn't make sense, that it might, but not really.

01:03:07   Like, it's a different beast and it can play games,

01:03:11   but it's not an attempt to reach the game console market

01:03:16   so much as reach another market that might wanna play games

01:03:21   on their TV, but is not gonna buy a console.

01:03:24   - Yeah, that's where I fit in.

01:03:25   I'm not, I don't consider myself a gamer.

01:03:28   I don't own a console,

01:03:30   haven't had a console since I was a kid,

01:03:33   But some casual games with the family on the Apple TV

01:03:36   is something I could get behind.

01:03:38   So I think that's, I think it's more of a,

01:03:41   it's sort of a second tier thing

01:03:45   that it's not going after the Xbox,

01:03:46   it's not going after the PlayStation,

01:03:47   but you're right, there is this other audience of people

01:03:50   who want something less hardcore.

01:03:52   And I think that's a market that's been really underserved.

01:03:55   I mean, there was the,

01:03:57   there was a, what was the Android-based one

01:03:59   a couple years ago that you could put games on

01:04:02   and you could put like roms on and stuff.

01:04:03   I think Micah owns one.

01:04:04   But there hasn't really been--

01:04:06   - Except the oh yeah?

01:04:08   - Yeah, the ooh yeah, the ooh yeah.

01:04:10   Sounds like a cheer really more than anything.

01:04:14   - Yep.

01:04:15   - But there really isn't anything sort of in this power

01:04:17   and price class until now.

01:04:18   And I think Apple is smart to go after that.

01:04:22   I think there's gonna be a lot of people who

01:04:24   like it because it's not a console, if that makes sense.

01:04:31   Anyways, good times, good times in the TV land.

01:04:34   But I think it's time to move out of the living room, Jason.

01:04:39   - Oh, we have to leave the living room now?

01:04:40   - I think we do.

01:04:41   It's time to move to our pockets,

01:04:42   but first, do you want to tell us

01:04:43   about our friends at FanDuel?

01:04:45   - See, I was gonna say, getting hot and stuffy in here,

01:04:47   but it's gonna be way hotter and stuffier in the pockets

01:04:50   than it is in the living room.

01:04:51   But okay, we'll go there after I tell you about FanDuel.

01:04:54   Big week, I know you guys have been waiting

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01:04:58   because it's the first week of the NFL season.

01:05:02   Also Apple event, also new iPhones, also new Apple TV.

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01:05:15   I don't know why I'm describing it this way,

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01:07:20   So we're in the pocket now, Jason. iPhone 6s.

01:07:25   It's so small in the pocket. It's so hard to put stuff in there.

01:07:30   Okay, we're here. Here we are. We're in the pocket with an iPhone 6s and a 6s Plus.

01:07:34   It's a big pocket.

01:07:35   And the same pocket? That's no good.

01:07:36   Two pockets.

01:07:38   Two pockets.

01:07:39   They're connected. They're stapled together.

01:07:41   That's how they're connected. By staples.

01:07:44   New iPhones. New iPhones. It happened.

01:07:46   At the end at the end not not the beginning. I mean they

01:07:50   Apple if it's

01:07:53   Have a tendency I think to sort of ramp up to the most exciting thing, right?

01:07:57   This time I feel like it was sort of a bell curve

01:08:03   They sort of started slow got big with the iPad Pro and the Apple TV and then sort of tapered back down with the phones

01:08:08   I don't know really know what that why that change took place this year

01:08:14   But I mean it was like an hour and 20 minutes in till they got to the phones

01:08:18   But at least they got more than like the eight minutes. They did last year with the watch. Just good. Yeah

01:08:23   Lots of things about numbers crazy year-over-year growth especially in China

01:08:29   Yeah, so one of those update not update updates is we still got an iPhone update just came at the end

01:08:35   Customer set off the choice. He said customer sat in this in this part

01:08:40   I typed it out and as I was crying a little bit it's off the charts Jason

01:08:45   It's it's really doesn't see it from here doesn't the chart ended a hundred percent

01:08:49   Like you can't have more than everyone who has a phone be satisfied

01:08:53   It's it turns out Apple's charts for customer sat ended 90%

01:08:56   It sounds like the Amazon charts with no numbers at all

01:08:59   It's like everything off the chart because the chart doesn't mean anything. Yeah

01:09:02   So it's it's an S year right the the outside is the same the cases are the same

01:09:10   But it seems like they really played up. Hey, we did a lot of stuff internally

01:09:15   it's not just a speed bump like some previous s phones have been but

01:09:18   We've got a new cover glass we've got new cameras we've got new aluminum

01:09:25   We're actually they're actually using the 700 series aluminum like they're on the watch which was

01:09:28   7,000 yeah, it's that it's that magic aerospace aluminum

01:09:32   Thing that is that is as predicted made out of rockets Jason it is it is it's from space from space

01:09:39   And then of course the 3d touch which I think is probably the biggest thing I

01:09:46   think that I think 3d touch is what will define this iPhone in history. No doubt.

01:09:51   So can you kind of break down just watching it was sort of hard to kind of

01:09:55   really get what they're trying to say how is it using it kind of what are your

01:09:59   thoughts on on how they presented it and what you think about the feature?

01:10:05   - It's, so I spent most of my time,

01:10:09   well, I spent a lot of time with the iPad Pro

01:10:11   and then I spent a lot of time with a success

01:10:14   with this feature 'cause I wanted to understand it.

01:10:17   And you know, you are pushing a little bit harder

01:10:22   on an interface element to make something happen.

01:10:25   And there are a few different ways that that manifests.

01:10:27   In the launcher, it manifests as a little menu

01:10:31   of common suggestions of things that you might want to do.

01:10:36   And then it's launching the app,

01:10:39   but it's launching the app with a,

01:10:41   it's deep linking essentially.

01:10:43   It's that's taking it to a very particular state.

01:10:46   So in mail, if you 3D touch, I guess,

01:10:51   if you press on the mail icon,

01:10:53   one of the options is search.

01:10:55   And when you tap on search,

01:10:56   or you can actually press and then sort of just

01:10:58   slide your finger down to search and let go,

01:11:00   that also works. It will launch mail, but it will bring you to the search window

01:11:05   with the insertion point in the search box and the keyboard showing. So you're

01:11:08   ready to go. That as an example. Or if you 3D touch, you give that

01:11:14   extra press on the camera app, you can slide your finger down to take a selfie

01:11:19   or take a picture or take a video and let go and then that feature will

01:11:26   come up. So you know, you'll already be with the front-facing camera, the

01:11:31   FaceTime camera, or you'll already be in video mode. So that's clever, and that's

01:11:36   like a control click, that's a right click, that's a contextual

01:11:39   thing, but it can help. I think that could be really great, like in Maps you press

01:11:44   R on the Maps icon and you get a thing that says "Navigate to Home." It's

01:11:50   just a nice little shortcut to say "I just need to figure out how to get

01:11:53   home from here. And then in apps, there are, I think developers can sort of do

01:11:58   whatever they want, but this metaphor that Apple is using, and I think Apple

01:12:02   wants to be an example for app developers. App developers are gonna look

01:12:08   at what Apple does and say, "We should do that, because all the system apps do that."

01:12:11   It's this idea of the peak and the pop. Adorable, really. Kind of cute names.

01:12:19   - Yeah, except the peak kind of pops up,

01:12:21   which is weird because it's not a pop, it's a peak.

01:12:24   - I had the same thought.

01:12:25   - Yeah, yeah.

01:12:26   So, but you press on that, on an interface element,

01:12:30   like let's say you're in the preview list

01:12:33   of all of your messages.

01:12:35   If you touch on one and press a little bit,

01:12:40   you get a preview of that message.

01:12:44   And that's called a peak.

01:12:46   And in some apps, you can actually do things

01:12:48   from the peak, you can swipe your finger up and down

01:12:51   or left and right and expose other options.

01:12:53   Like if you swipe your finger up,

01:12:55   from the bottom comes a list of buttons that you can press

01:12:58   to do something to whatever you've got selected.

01:13:01   If you want to commit, fully commit to that thing

01:13:07   you're just peaking at,

01:13:09   you just continue to press a little bit harder

01:13:11   and that the whole interface element just kind of pops,

01:13:14   and that's the pop, into full, you know, regular mode.

01:13:18   like as if you had tapped on it.

01:13:19   So it's a way for you to, instead of the old mode,

01:13:22   which would be, oh, let's see what message they sent,

01:13:25   tap, slide in, oh, there it is,

01:13:27   and tap and you slide back out.

01:13:29   Instead, you do this 3D touch, you look at the message,

01:13:33   and if it is the one that you were looking for,

01:13:35   then you press a little bit harder and it opens

01:13:37   as if you had tapped it.

01:13:38   So it's cute.

01:13:40   It does a little, because there's the Taptic Engine now

01:13:43   in the iPhone 6S and 6S Plus,

01:13:47   It does a little quick buzz kind of in your hand

01:13:51   when you do both of those things.

01:13:52   So you get some very light haptic feedback

01:13:56   that these things are happening.

01:13:57   And I can see how it will become second nature to people

01:13:59   who are using these devices to do it

01:14:02   because Apple's done it in a very kind of clever way.

01:14:04   It's not just let's throw up a menu everywhere.

01:14:09   I think they did a very good job.

01:14:13   I think the fit and finish of it is really nice.

01:14:16   They, I'm impressed with that.

01:14:18   And I could see how it could become a natural part

01:14:21   of your gestural language in the future

01:14:25   once you start using these devices.

01:14:28   - No, I definitely agree.

01:14:30   We had spoken on connected a couple of weeks ago

01:14:32   about the concern developers would be tempted to put

01:14:37   UI elements behind a long press,

01:14:40   or we had a force touch as we were calling it,

01:14:43   and now it's not the name anymore,

01:14:44   or there's something different.

01:14:45   - I know. - It's very confusing.

01:14:47   But I agree with you, I think the way Apple's doing it

01:14:50   is that there's nothing that this does

01:14:54   that you can't do another way, right?

01:14:57   You can launch the app and you can hit the button you want,

01:14:59   or you can tap on the email and open it.

01:15:01   But it's providing another level of

01:15:05   accessibility to those things in a way that is clever,

01:15:12   but I don't think developers or the OS itself

01:15:16   are gonna be hamstrung because a bunch of old devices

01:15:18   don't have it yet.

01:15:19   You know what I mean?

01:15:20   Like it's a nice addition, but it doesn't really add any,

01:15:23   there's no negative side to that

01:15:24   that I can see at this point.

01:15:26   - Yeah, we'll see.

01:15:28   The ball is really in the court of the app developers now.

01:15:33   - The ball in this Pocket 2 is getting really crowded.

01:15:36   - Yeah, it's yeah.

01:15:38   We'll see what they do.

01:15:40   We'll see what they do with this.

01:15:41   and the clever ideas that come out of it.

01:15:44   But I like it.

01:15:46   My first few minutes with it,

01:15:51   I totally get what they're doing.

01:15:53   It feels natural.

01:15:54   It's harder to explain,

01:15:56   but very easy when you experience it

01:15:59   to see what you would do.

01:16:01   It feels natural.

01:16:02   It doesn't feel like you're trying

01:16:03   to press through the screen.

01:16:04   I didn't notice any accidental taps.

01:16:09   I think that the software behind it

01:16:10   really smart about what it's sensing and and and how it behaves. I really think

01:16:15   app developers are gonna go to town with things like the shortcuts from the home

01:16:18   screen. It makes the home screen more efficient and and being able to kind of

01:16:22   pop in or sorry peek into various items in the UI that we you could get used to

01:16:30   it really really easily. So we'll see. Yeah I think it's I think it's nice.

01:16:35   Camry got a got a big jump this year as well. They've gone from 8 to 12 megapixel

01:16:40   They had a whole technical explanation about why they couldn't do that till now that quite frankly no human could understand

01:16:46   and

01:16:49   I think the big thing with the camera is doing 4k video. It seems

01:16:52   I'm a don't mean to be a downer Jason don't mean to be the way that I am

01:17:00   but it just seems I

01:17:02   Don't know. I don't know why I don't know what I can do with 4k video at this point, right like I

01:17:08   What am I gonna do with 4k video, Jason?

01:17:10   Well, zoom in on it.

01:17:13   Yeah, I mean, I guess and let it fill up my photo stream and my iCloud account.

01:17:18   Or use image stabilization and have lots of extra pixels to use.

01:17:23   I don't know. It's one of those things that when they first did 1080 video, I thought

01:17:28   really, what are we gonna do 1080 video? But then, you know, a few years pass and it seems reasonable.

01:17:33   This is one of those things where it's early,

01:17:35   but having it there

01:17:38   will eventually seem nice and you know people will be shooting movies they're

01:17:43   already shooting movies with iPhones now they'll be shooting them in 4k yeah some

01:17:47   of the chat rooms like you can watch the videos on your Roku the Apple TV

01:17:51   doesn't that's right okay but um yeah I mean joking aside I mean part that's

01:17:55   partially in jest I mean it's gonna be really fun to play with I think but

01:18:00   at the same time you have this argument it's it's been it's sort of been

01:18:04   rekindled today on Twitter of you know I could take a couple of minutes of video

01:18:09   and fill up you know an eighth of my 16 gigabyte iPhone and that's I think

01:18:15   that's problematic especially when photo and video see like that's what normal

01:18:22   people do with their phones right a lot of people do this stuff and I do think

01:18:27   that the complaints we have heard from people and the complaints that have been

01:18:32   voice to Apple about the 16 gigabyte phone. It's only gonna get louder now that

01:18:36   you can really fill that thing up with really high quality video. Yeah, yeah, we'll

01:18:42   see. I mean you'll also be filling it up with live photos so who knows. There are

01:18:47   lots of ways to fill up these phones so pity those who have the 16 gig

01:18:53   model. So what else with the camera? The 5 megapixel FaceTime camera,

01:18:58   camera on the front. They're using the screen now as a flash. They've done

01:19:03   this in Photo Booth on the Mac forever. Yes. And I think in Snapchat—I'm not

01:19:08   young enough to understand Snapchat—but I've heard—the children have told me

01:19:12   that it snaps while it chats. Yes. It's an amazing invention. It uses the screen flash.

01:19:17   Yeah. And they say three times as bright as the

01:19:21   as the standard brightness. So they've got it, you know, they're cranking up the

01:19:25   brightness momentarily in order to get that flash using the screen flash.

01:19:30   It's like a little explosion. You can only do so many of them that your phone just

01:19:32   disintegrates. Sad. Possible. And then faster LTE, faster wireless, you know,

01:19:38   stuff we see kind of every year. Yeah, I mean, I feel like that stuff just kind of comes

01:19:42   with the territory where they get, you get new radios and they have new

01:19:46   features so they're like, "Yay, here they are." And they make claims that they're twice as

01:19:50   fast and it's usually never that, never actually true except in ideal

01:19:54   circumstances that never exist, but generally, you know, over time it ends up being faster

01:19:59   as time goes on. Maybe not as fast as they say, but because in the real world things

01:20:04   aren't ever that simple, but in the ballpark. The live photos thing I am fascinated by,

01:20:10   this idea that, you know, these cameras all sort of bracket the images. They sort of take

01:20:16   a bunch of images and pick a good one. I think that actually was happening on the iPhone

01:20:20   before to a certain degree where, you know, it was taking whatever, 10 images or something,

01:20:25   and then picking the one that it thought was the best of those and using that one. I think that,

01:20:29   I think it was already doing that. But now what they're doing here is when you were in this live

01:20:33   photo mode, it is, you know, it is taking a still, but for a second and a half on either side,

01:20:39   it's gathering data and then it generates, essentially it generates a still and then it

01:20:45   It generates, it saves, they're unclear on this,

01:20:50   but it's compressed.

01:20:52   So it sounds like they're doing kind of quick timey stuff

01:20:54   where they're tracking,

01:20:56   like, I don't know if you can do,

01:20:58   can you do a reverse key frame?

01:21:00   Maybe there are two key frames,

01:21:01   but that sounds like what's happening here

01:21:02   is you've got your picture,

01:21:03   and then there's data that they're using

01:21:06   for the other stills in this live photo thing.

01:21:09   So that when you hold on an image that's a live photo,

01:21:13   you see three seconds of movement.

01:21:15   It's like a really short vine.

01:21:16   - Right, but it's not video.

01:21:18   They were very clear about that.

01:21:20   - No, it's a series of stills,

01:21:23   you know, using the still camera stuff,

01:21:25   and yet it's also not stored as a stack of JPEGs,

01:21:27   which is why I mentioned keyframes,

01:21:29   'cause it sounds more like what's happening

01:21:31   as something like, that's how video compression works, right?

01:21:33   Is you have a keyframe that's got all the information,

01:21:35   and then for successive frames,

01:21:37   they, up until the point where there's a new keyframe,

01:21:40   what they're doing is detailing how this frame

01:21:42   is different from the frame that came before it,

01:21:44   and it sounds like they're doing something like that

01:21:46   with the live photo stuff, but it's not a video.

01:21:49   So it's kind of like a video, but it's kind of not a video.

01:21:53   It's complicated.

01:21:54   - Yeah, I'm looking forward to playing with it.

01:21:56   I think it'll be a fun with kids and pets and stuff.

01:21:58   - It's cute, yeah, exactly right.

01:22:00   You know, and you get these little things

01:22:02   and you hold it and that still picture you've got

01:22:04   also has some motion data around it

01:22:06   and it moves a little bit and that can be kind of fun.

01:22:08   And there's audio optionally too.

01:22:10   So it's a, yeah, it's a fun idea.

01:22:14   we'll see if it goes anywhere.

01:22:15   But they're building support into iOS 9 and El Capitan,

01:22:19   so you'll be able to see the stuff that's shot with this.

01:22:22   And I'm unclear whether you can export it out

01:22:24   as an animated GIF or something.

01:22:26   - I know. - I said GIF, you heard me.

01:22:28   - And watchOS, and it was sort of a throwaway comment,

01:22:31   but iOS 9, you can set a photo or a photo album

01:22:34   as your watch face background, and they've said,

01:22:38   again, just very off the cuff during the keynote,

01:22:40   that you can do that with these as well.

01:22:43   if you have a little three second thing of your kid smiling,

01:22:45   you could make that your watch face,

01:22:47   which I think is, I mean, I think these things will be fun,

01:22:50   but I think that it's gonna be for a certain type of person,

01:22:52   and there are gonna be a lot of people who just don't care

01:22:54   or don't understand, or, you know, it's fine,

01:22:56   but I can't export it to Instagram, so who cares, you know?

01:23:00   I really wanna see how the third party support,

01:23:02   if it exists, what that looks like

01:23:04   before I'm willing to say this is gonna be a huge hit.

01:23:06   But, anyway, so we talked about the business stuff

01:23:11   a little bit.

01:23:12   You're-- - Sure.

01:23:15   Does that mean we can leave the pocket?

01:23:17   - Yeah, we're now in the boardroom, Jason.

01:23:21   - Okay. - It's a good looking suit.

01:23:23   - I love this leather chair here.

01:23:24   - It's a good looking suit.

01:23:25   - Thanks.

01:23:26   - So you're, I say yours, not really yours,

01:23:30   but your six S's is not here.

01:23:31   So the lineup now is five S, six,

01:23:36   six plus, six S, six S plus.

01:23:40   - Exhausting to say.

01:23:41   I'm surprised they kept the six plus.

01:23:44   I thought just the six would sit in the middle,

01:23:46   but they got two options in the middle now,

01:23:49   and then the five S is still around in the US on contract

01:23:54   on that sort of free tier.

01:23:56   Of course now, a lot of carriers are going

01:23:59   to this monthly payment thing,

01:24:00   so they also broke that down of like,

01:24:02   "Hey, this is an average over these carriers,

01:24:05   "$27, $32 a month or something."

01:24:08   - Right.

01:24:10   - And then-- - Yes, and then,

01:24:12   Apple has its own program.

01:24:15   There'll be a link in the show notes.

01:24:17   They're calling it the iPhone Upgrade Program.

01:24:20   And basically, if you want an iPhone every year,

01:24:24   you can go into the Apple Store, tell them your carrier,

01:24:27   and you get a monthly bill.

01:24:29   And then you go back in the next year,

01:24:31   give them the phone back, and they roll that debt

01:24:33   over to the next phone or something.

01:24:36   I looked over this Apple website,

01:24:38   and quite frankly, sort of my eyes glazed over.

01:24:40   But it's there.

01:24:42   - It's, it sounds like this is,

01:24:46   yeah, I need to get more information about this.

01:24:49   It sounds like this is basically Apple saying,

01:24:50   look, we wanna have the equivalent

01:24:55   of what the carriers have,

01:24:58   which is a monthly phone reimbursement program.

01:25:03   So that's what they created.

01:25:06   So if you wanna use Apple,

01:25:08   and Apple's thing is a little different in that you've got,

01:25:10   they've rolled AppleCare+ into it,

01:25:12   so it's gonna be a little more expensive.

01:25:13   But what they say is you get a new iPhone every year.

01:25:16   It sounds to me like you pay this monthly fee

01:25:18   and after a year you can trade in your old iPhone

01:25:22   and get a new iPhone and then you pay the new monthly fee.

01:25:24   And it's a two year commitment,

01:25:26   but I think you're buying yourself out of the second year

01:25:29   by trading in your phone.

01:25:30   - I think so, yes.

01:25:31   - I think that's how it works.

01:25:33   So it's a little more expensive,

01:25:34   But put it this way, if you are more comfortable

01:25:37   with your relationship with Apple

01:25:38   than you are with your carrier,

01:25:39   and I suspect a lot of Apple's customers are,

01:25:42   this is an interesting approach

01:25:43   where you're getting an unlocked phone,

01:25:44   you can change your carrier anytime you want,

01:25:46   you can travel internationally

01:25:47   and put any SIM card in you want.

01:25:49   And yes, you are paying, instead of paying that $32 a month

01:25:54   or $40 a month or whatever for,

01:25:58   or $28 a month to AT&T for your plan,

01:26:01   or to T-Mobile or to Verizon, you pay it to Apple.

01:26:05   And along with it, you get AppleCare.

01:26:09   So you've got extra protection on it.

01:26:12   And it's unlocked, so you can move at any point.

01:26:15   Interesting.

01:26:16   I don't know.

01:26:17   Part of me says that this is largely to grease the skids

01:26:22   of selling phones in Apple retail.

01:26:24   That Apple really likes the idea

01:26:27   of the two-year subsidy thing

01:26:30   and hates the idea of having to sell an unlocked phone

01:26:32   for $600 or whatever, $750.

01:26:36   And now they don't have to, because they have this plan

01:26:38   that sounds a lot like plans people

01:26:40   are gonna be familiar with.

01:26:41   So, interesting idea.

01:26:43   I think it also, you know, the iPhone's gotten a lot simpler

01:26:48   in the last couple of versions,

01:26:50   where now there aren't a bunch of different SKUs

01:26:52   for a bunch of different carriers.

01:26:54   They're sort of an iPhone now.

01:26:55   And that enables them to do this too,

01:26:58   by saying, "Look, it's just for everybody, whatever.

01:27:01   Every carrier will work with it."

01:27:03   And that makes this more viable

01:27:06   than it would have been even two or three years ago,

01:27:09   where, "Oh, you can't use that phone

01:27:11   on this carrier," kind of stuff.

01:27:13   It's just sort of swept away now.

01:27:14   So it's cool.

01:27:15   People will crunch the numbers and find out

01:27:17   whether it's a good deal or not.

01:27:18   Chances are it's gonna be more expensive,

01:27:20   because like I said, they're rolling in AppleCare

01:27:22   and stuff like that.

01:27:23   So it'll probably be, you'll probably get a better deal

01:27:25   from your carrier, depending on what you want though.

01:27:29   If you want Apple Care, if you want the ability

01:27:31   to dump your carrier on a moment's notice

01:27:33   and have an unlocked phone, this may be a better deal.

01:27:36   - Yeah, I don't know.

01:27:37   I'm sort of mid contract right now with Verizon,

01:27:40   but it is an interesting thing about making a change.

01:27:44   And basically now if you start,

01:27:45   if you move carriers or you start over,

01:27:48   you're basically more or less going to be

01:27:50   in some sort of monthly installment thing.

01:27:52   You know, the idea of I'm gonna spend a couple hundred dollars

01:27:56   if you buy unlocked several hundred dollars at once

01:28:00   and then I just pay my bill and, you know,

01:28:03   I'm tied to you for a set amount of time

01:28:04   and then we can do our separate ways.

01:28:07   That whole relationship, again, here in the US is changing.

01:28:11   And I think you're right.

01:28:12   Apple has to respond to that somehow.

01:28:14   And I do think that they --

01:28:19   Apple would refer its customers coming to their own stores

01:28:21   'cause then they can control the experience, right?

01:28:24   Like we've all been to carrier stores that are terrible.

01:28:28   There's some good ones out there too,

01:28:29   but we've all had that experience if we go

01:28:31   and it's just a nightmare.

01:28:33   And Apple,

01:28:35   there's always like there's this tension

01:28:38   with Apple and the carriers

01:28:40   and maybe this is sort of the next round of that of,

01:28:42   hey, you guys are gonna do this monthly installment plan.

01:28:45   All of a sudden Apple is like the bad guy

01:28:47   if they don't have this, right?

01:28:48   If you go to Apple's website,

01:28:49   can only buy a phone for $299. On paper, you know, it's different but the way it

01:28:56   looks is like whoa what are you doing Apple? Like that's a you know either

01:29:00   that's an old way of thinking about it or people don't understand and why it's

01:29:03   so much more expensive and so Apple has to play ball here and I think it's

01:29:08   interesting and I am curious to see as you know this week goes on and as people

01:29:13   sort of dive into the details of this of this agreement you know how how does it

01:29:17   stack up versus what AT&T or Verizon or T-Mobile are doing on that fee.

01:29:23   It's an interesting change. Yeah, interesting strategy. We'll see

01:29:28   what happens with it. But I think, you know, Apple's got a lot more loyalty

01:29:32   bound up in their brand than Verizon or AT&T or T-Mobile have in theirs with

01:29:35   customers. So why not do this? We'll see what happens. Yeah, so probably the only

01:29:42   other thing they sort of announced was some iCloud changing, iCloud price

01:29:47   changing stuff I don't know what it was before but the new prices are 99 cents

01:29:52   for 50 gigs to 99 for 200 and 999 for a terabyte that's that's monthly build

01:29:58   monthly it's cheaper I think excited and look up what the previous ones were but

01:30:04   it's still expensive it's cheaper so expensive compared to some other things

01:30:07   out there but I think Apple's realizing that they've got to make some

01:30:11   adjustments here yeah it's it's cheaper although I've got the 500 gig plan which

01:30:17   is no longer there, which is annoying to me because I think I'm using about 270

01:30:22   gigs of photos and video from the photo app. So you're forced up to the terabyte. Well, which I think is what I'm

01:30:29   paying, so I think, you know, and I'm probably grandfathered in, but I think

01:30:33   that's what I'm paying. But that's too bad, right? It's like, "Oh, I could...

01:30:40   I didn't get a cost savings." But still, it's good. I'm

01:30:46   disappointed that they didn't their free tier didn't go up to 10 because I feel

01:30:50   like there's so many bad user experiences that happen because you run

01:30:53   out of a backup space and and I feel like or or that it's five gigs per

01:30:59   device up to linked to an account up to 15 or something like that we because if

01:31:04   you have an iPhone and an iPad you're going to be very close to running out of

01:31:08   your five gigs of backup storage like really easily and then you get all these

01:31:11   weird obscure warnings and I don't, you know, maybe they sell some people on

01:31:19   buying more storage stuff but I think mostly it just annoys people and they

01:31:22   ignore it and they stop their devices start getting backed up and it leads to

01:31:25   bad things and so I think they should, yeah, they should do something about that

01:31:29   but they didn't. Instead though that 50 gig plan is now 99 cents a month. That's

01:31:33   a pretty good deal. That's not bad just for like backups and some stuff

01:31:38   and I think in general this will be good for people who use photos because making

01:31:41   access to photos more reliable is a good thing. Yeah, 500 previously you got for $9.99 a month

01:31:50   you got 500 gigs which was the plan that I was on and so now I will basically be able

01:31:55   to go up to a terabyte but I can't go down. My 500 gig plan goes away so there's no place

01:32:02   for me to fall in at $599 or something. I have to either go down to 200 or up to a terabyte.

01:32:06   - It is a big gap, but I mean obviously Apple has the data

01:32:10   on how people are using this, and I'm sure somewhere

01:32:13   in some, not necessarily our boardroom that you and I

01:32:15   are sitting in, but another boardroom.

01:32:17   - Yes.

01:32:18   - Someone looked at this and said,

01:32:20   "Hey, we need to redraw these tiers."

01:32:22   At least Apple's paying attention to it.

01:32:25   I mean, I was afraid that they had just put these prices

01:32:28   on their website and then the intern who did it was gone.

01:32:31   And no one was like, "How do we change it?"

01:32:32   No one knew.

01:32:34   So at least they're looking at it,

01:32:35   and hopefully over time they'll sort of settle closer

01:32:38   to the reality that we think should come about.

01:32:42   - Yep.

01:32:44   - Busy day, Jason.

01:32:46   See?

01:32:47   - Big day, big day, big week, lots going on.

01:32:50   - Big week.

01:32:51   - But yeah, it's good.

01:32:53   It was dense, it was meaty.

01:32:56   I'm glad.

01:32:56   I like having a lot to talk about and a lot to write about

01:32:59   and it's gonna be a busy few weeks now.

01:33:01   Good lord.

01:33:02   I gotta write about iOS 9 and then El Capitan's coming.

01:33:05   right after that and we're gonna get that, you know, we're gonna have new hardware rolling out sooner and a little bit later and a

01:33:11   Little bit later all the way out to November with the iPad Pro

01:33:13   So much to do and so much for all of us to talk about too. So that's good. The drought of summer is over

01:33:19   Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, sorry about that

01:33:23   sensitive

01:33:25   Yeah

01:33:27   I'll do I'll die now. Goodbye. I'm gonna drying up. I just dried up and now I'm going to blow away on a breeze

01:33:34   Oh no, there's no breeze, no.

01:33:36   Maybe you should go to California.

01:33:39   Nope. No sleep.

01:33:43   Do we have any Ask Upgrade or do you want to wrap this up?

01:33:46   Let's do a couple quick Ask Upgrades.

01:33:49   I've got the Ask Upgrade window open here.

01:33:52   Let's see if there's stuff that we haven't answered.

01:33:56   Oliver asked if the computer's icon is still in the new Apple TV UI.

01:34:00   It's not in any of the screenshots.

01:34:02   Will ripped videos still work? I don't know if it's in there or not. I didn't see it either.

01:34:09   It might appear when it senses computers around with sharing turned on, but I would also say

01:34:15   that now that there's an app store here, presumably there'll be like Plex and other stuff that

01:34:19   plays ripped videos on servers too. So I think in the end it'll be fine, but I don't know

01:34:26   for sure if the direct sync from iTunes is gone or not.

01:34:32   Raphael asks, "Is it the end of the iPad Air?" I would say no, I think they're just

01:34:35   taking a break. There's how many new versions can Apple do at any given time? So they brought

01:34:40   the iPad Mini up to the specs of the iPad Air 2, and I would imagine that the iPad Air

01:34:46   will get revved next year. And, you know, there are a lot of these products. With the

01:34:52   iPhone 6 and 6 Plus, with the iPad Mini Air and Pro, it's a lot of products. I think that

01:34:57   we can't expect them all to get updated every year. And so the iPad seems to be a place

01:35:01   where Apple's picking its spots with updates.

01:35:05   Raya Amidon, who's also in the chat room, I think, asked if this is a good time to buy

01:35:09   a refurbished Air 2. I think, sure, there's not going to be a new one anytime soon, so

01:35:15   if you really want one and you don't want an iPad Pro, now would be a great time, I

01:35:18   would say. I bought a refurbished iPad Air 2 when they announced iOS 9, because I wanted

01:35:23   to use the split-screen features, and it's really nice.

01:35:27   Yeah, I really like the Air 2. I mean, if you're looking for a new iPad and the Pro

01:35:33   is off-putting for some reason, the Air 2 is a great tablet.

01:35:36   Yeah. Alan says, "What about palm rejection on the iPad Pro?" Apparently, it's there.

01:35:44   I did not use the Apple Pencil, so I have nothing to say about that. Any indication

01:35:49   he asks if iPhone still only has 1GB of RAM, we don't know. They gave no indication to

01:35:54   the contrary. I sure hope that there's two gigs of RAM in the iPhones,

01:35:58   especially the 6 Plus. And let's see, I want Apple Pencil, but I like the size of

01:36:05   the regular iPad. Do you think the regular size iPad line will support it

01:36:07   eventually? You know, maybe in a year. Maybe they'll do the little three dots

01:36:12   and everything and add that connector thing to other devices. I wouldn't count

01:36:18   on it, but I think there's a chance it might happen in a year. And Shereen asked

01:36:25   how pink the rose gold iPhone is and my answer to that is my colorblindness

01:36:31   requires me not to answer. There's some heads-on videos though you can find

01:36:35   online. It looks fairly pink on video at least. Yeah, I guess. I had a

01:36:42   hard time seeing it, but that's me. I don't see pink very well. Pink is

01:36:46   one of my weaknesses go and finally on the store timer timer koala sing asked

01:36:53   if we heard anything about homekit isn't that a huge omission if we didn't and

01:36:57   the answer is we didn't hear anything about homekit so far as I could tell

01:37:01   isn't that it's not dead but it's sort of not enjoying a great life I mean it

01:37:06   seems like sort of all I think I'm kids one of those things that takes time and

01:37:10   there have been reports out that Apple has been very involved with hardware

01:37:16   partners to certify things to work with HomeKit and it just seems like a very

01:37:20   slow maybe painful process to roll that stuff out. Which I'm okay with I want it

01:37:27   to be well tested. You know my guess is too on that real quick there was talk

01:37:34   about the Apple TV being like a HomeKit hub or you know the thing certainly has

01:37:39   the power to do that now with the hardware and it may be that that stuff

01:37:43   is sort of laying dormant or they could add it later. I don't think HomeKit's

01:37:47   dead. I just think it's...

01:37:48   -Siri has the ability to tie into HomeKit, right? So it's

01:37:51   possible that you'll be able to use Siri on the Apple TV to do stuff that ties into HomeKit.

01:37:55   -They just haven't said much.

01:37:57   -Yeah, but they didn't say anything about it, which is, yeah. Maybe it was just a victim of how

01:38:02   packed it really was.

01:38:03   -Yeah, maybe so.

01:38:05   -Maybe.

01:38:07   All right, I think we've reached the end.

01:38:09   - I think it is the end.

01:38:10   Jason, thanks for letting me come hang out.

01:38:13   - Yeah, well thank you for filling in for Myke,

01:38:15   who, while we were talking, arrived in our fair country.

01:38:18   - It's true, he's in Portland.

01:38:20   - So we'll see him this weekend,

01:38:22   and Myke and I are gonna do the next episode of Upgrade.

01:38:26   We'll record that over the weekend in Portland,

01:38:30   and that'll be next week's episode.

01:38:31   - And you and I will do Liftoff as well,

01:38:34   the other show you and I have now about space.

01:38:37   - Podcast-a-mania it's happening here at Relay FM,

01:38:41   which is good because it's the podcast network,

01:38:42   so there should be podcasts on a podcast.

01:38:44   Don't you think podcast networks should release podcasts?

01:38:47   I think so.

01:38:47   - I have found that to be beneficial to the bottom line.

01:38:50   - I agree.

01:38:51   - So if you want to find the show notes this week,

01:38:54   we said it earlier,

01:38:55   you can find them at relay.fm/upgrade/53.

01:39:00   You want to follow Jason on Twitter,

01:39:01   you can find him at JSnell and his writing at sixcolors.com.

01:39:06   One of the most colorful websites.

01:39:08   Aww, they're one of my favorites.

01:39:12   Find me online as well at 512pixels.net

01:39:14   or ISMH on Twitter.

01:39:17   And until next time, bye bye.

01:39:20   Bye everybody.

01:39:21   (upbeat music)

01:39:23   [ Music ]