Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 34.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Hover, simplified domain management,

00:00:16 ◼   ► MailRoute, a secure hosted email service for protection from viruses and spam, and GoToMeeting.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Make it easy to meet with your team whenever you need to, wherever you are.

00:00:25 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined as always by the one and only Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:30 ◼   ► Hi Myke, it's good to have you back.

00:00:32 ◼   ► Thank you sir, I keep forgetting which shows I'm on and which shows I'm not.

00:00:36 ◼   ► So yes, I wasn't on last week's episode and I really enjoyed listening to the show.

00:00:41 ◼   ► I like Upgrade, I think it's a good show, so it's always nice when I can hear it

00:00:46 ◼   ► without it being ruined by me having to listen to myself.

00:00:49 ◼   ► So it was a good show, you both, you and Steven were very kind about

00:00:54 ◼   ► my extremely nerdy hobby, so thank you for that.

00:00:57 ◼   ► Yeah, we dove into the pen world there briefly, and then we came right back out. But like

00:01:04 ◼   ► I said, I love people who are enthusiastic, and that was really fun to... Even though

00:01:08 ◼   ► I literally had no idea what you guys were talking about on The Pen Addict, it was fun

00:01:12 ◼   ► to listen and hear your enthusiasm, and that was all awesome. But it's good to have you

00:01:17 ◼   ► back. We're in this weird period now where we've got a lot of travel and stuff going

00:01:20 ◼   ► on and you know it's good to it's good to be back to normal here. Dan and I will be

00:01:25 ◼   ► back on clockwise together this week for the first time and I think we've we've only been

00:01:29 ◼   ► on like one show out of the last five together so we're you know it's all kind of settling

00:01:35 ◼   ► back it back into normalcy even though I'm about to take a trip for a few days again

00:01:40 ◼   ► I'm getting tired of this travel but this is the last big trip for a while so that's

00:01:43 ◼   ► good because I like to I'm gonna settle back and wait for people to come to San Francisco

00:01:47 ◼   ► for WWDC. Yeah that's my next that's my next trip I'm taking a very short

00:01:53 ◼   ► weekend break to somewhere in England so that doesn't really count for me I think but

00:01:58 ◼   ► my next big trip is gonna be WWDC which is not far away it's like seven weeks or

00:02:03 ◼   ► something? Something like that yeah yeah it's it's the second week in June so

00:02:08 ◼   ► we've got a jump through May and but it's close six or seven weeks yeah. So I'm

00:02:12 ◼   ► wishing May away already. So we do have some follow up and out today.

00:02:19 ◼   ► We do. Last week we talked about Apple cloud services. Nick, listener Nick,

00:02:27 ◼   ► said I mentioned Microsoft when I was talking about Apple sort of nickeling and

00:02:30 ◼   ► diming people for cloud services and not bundling things together. And he points out quite rightly,

00:02:36 ◼   ► I didn't really mean to say, I meant sort of like it reminded me of old Microsoft. He's right,

00:02:41 ◼   ► I actually have Office 365, and it does include a terabyte of OneDrive and 60 Skype minutes

00:02:46 ◼   ► a month and a whole bunch of other stuff that they bundle in, like Microsoft Office. So,

00:02:53 ◼   ► you know, but I didn't... I sort of meant what we think of as Microsoft, not Satya Nadella's

00:02:58 ◼   ► brave new Microsoft, but I appreciate that bit of feedback. And it's true, that is a

00:03:02 ◼   ► great example of Microsoft taking a whole bunch of its services and just bundling them

00:03:06 ◼   ► together and this is what you get for this price. Whereas Apple, I've got, you know,

00:03:10 ◼   ► I've got iTunes match over here, and I've got iCloud Drive, you know, data over on this

00:03:17 ◼   ► side and I've got Beats over here and it would be cool if there was some sort of like super

00:03:22 ◼   ► platinum magic Apple plan that contained everything that I could buy and just not worry about

00:03:27 ◼   ► it. And maybe that would be a, you know, a good deal too, but Apple would get their money

00:03:31 ◼   ► and I would get the simplicity of just sort of being on the Apple Gold plan or whatever.

00:03:36 ◼   ► >> Talking about Microsoft, it's built this week. You gonna be watching along?

00:03:41 ◼   ► >> Nope. >> You're not interested? Don't you write for

00:03:45 ◼   ► a Windows website? I'm kidding. >> Boy, if I tried to act like I knew what

00:03:50 ◼   ► I was talking about about Windows, they would run me out on a rail. I'm always interested

00:03:55 ◼   ► to see, but I'm gonna take this one secondhand. I'm gonna take this one from the people who

00:03:59 ◼   ► who are analyzing it and see what they say.

00:04:02 ◼   ► Honestly, I've just been so overwhelmed with stuff

00:04:04 ◼   ► with finishing my photos book and the Apple Watch.

00:04:08 ◼   ► Did you know the Apple Watch came out?

00:04:09 ◼   ► That happened.

00:04:10 ◼   ► And all this travel and there's just so much going on that,

00:04:15 ◼   ► and actually as we're recording this,

00:04:16 ◼   ► Apple's financial results are happening later today.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Those, you know, we'll get some,

00:04:20 ◼   ► this is Tim on the phone, we'll get some more color.

00:04:23 ◼   ► All that good stuff.

00:04:25 ◼   ► Gene Munster trying to find out if there's a new Apple TV

00:04:27 ◼   ► by asking, you know, riddles. All that good stuff. So there's a lot going on. So Microsoft

00:04:32 ◼   ► Build, I'm going to let -- I'm looking forward to the coverage of that because I think what

00:04:35 ◼   ► Microsoft is doing these days is fascinating. But I don't have the brain power to devote

00:04:41 ◼   ► to it, honestly.

00:04:42 ◼   ► I'm going to keep my eye on it. I'm on a call for some of the time that the conference is

00:04:47 ◼   ► -- like the presentation will be happening. But I do plan to watch it because, I mean,

00:04:53 ◼   ► last couple of big keynotes have been very interesting. Yeah, maybe there'll be

00:04:59 ◼   ► some more holograms. I expect there to be more hologram stuff because build last

00:05:04 ◼   ► year was kind of like Nadella's coming out party, like he really set his vision

00:05:09 ◼   ► of the future I think if I'm remembering it correctly. So I'm excited to see more

00:05:15 ◼   ► about what what they're up to because I think and I do genuinely believe this I

00:05:20 ◼   ► said this after I can't remember what the purpose of that HoloLens

00:05:24 ◼   ► presentation was I don't think it was billed. No it was a special event I

00:05:29 ◼   ► think of Microsoft you know Windows 10 etc. Yes it was the Windows 10 event

00:05:35 ◼   ► wasn't it yep so like I said it then and I kind of stand by I think Microsoft are

00:05:40 ◼   ► one of them one of the more interesting companies to watch right now because

00:05:44 ◼   ► they're kind of they're doing some interesting stuff they're trying some

00:05:48 ◼   ► new stuff, as well as being stick in the mud, so there are other things.

00:05:52 ◼   ► So I'm excited to see what they're doing this week.

00:05:56 ◼   ► Cool.

00:05:57 ◼   ► Adam wrote in, listener Adam, and this is a little bit of an Ask upgrade, but it is

00:06:03 ◼   ► tied into talking about photos, which we've been talking about.

00:06:07 ◼   ► What's the best way for a couple to manage their photos together, preferably using photos

00:06:11 ◼   ► for Mac?

00:06:12 ◼   ► And unfortunately, the best way is the only way right now, which is everybody needs to

00:06:16 ◼   ► use the same iCloud account.

00:06:17 ◼   ► And this is one of these problems, and I think it's just owing to the fact that it's the

00:06:20 ◼   ► first version.

00:06:21 ◼   ► And we saw this with, it took Apple a while to get the family sharing link to ID thing

00:06:27 ◼   ► even to exist.

00:06:29 ◼   ► And this is a brand new product, iCloud Photo Library, so I feel like they're still working

00:06:33 ◼   ► out the kinks.

00:06:35 ◼   ► That may be an understatement.

00:06:37 ◼   ► So I feel like right now, if you want to have the same photos on all your devices between

00:06:44 ◼   ► a couple, you actually can only do it by being logged into the same iCloud account.

00:06:50 ◼   ► And that's ridiculous.

00:06:51 ◼   ► And what's really ridiculous is you can't add a new iCloud account just for photos and

00:06:55 ◼   ► log into that account.

00:06:56 ◼   ► It won't let you.

00:06:57 ◼   ► The master iCloud account has to be the one that you use for photos.

00:07:02 ◼   ► So this is a big hole.

00:07:05 ◼   ► You can put them on your family plan and drag things manually into the family album, but

00:07:12 ◼   ► That's not the same, and those are down-res versions that are on the sharing version.

00:07:18 ◼   ► It's not the full-res version like is on iCloud Photo Library.

00:07:21 ◼   ► So this is definitely a hole in the offering that you basically have to be on the same

00:07:25 ◼   ► iCloud account or you can't share the whole library.

00:07:29 ◼   ► You can only share like using iCloud sharing.

00:07:32 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:07:34 ◼   ► They'll get there, I think.

00:07:36 ◼   ► I think Apple has shown that they're actually paying attention to family stuff a little

00:07:39 ◼   ► bit more now, but it's just a huge gap that you can't...

00:07:43 ◼   ► It could be as easy as just saying, "Look, I want to add this iCloud account for my photo

00:07:49 ◼   ► syncing."

00:07:50 ◼   ► But right now you can't do that on the Mac.

00:07:53 ◼   ► It wants that to be your primary, and there's a whole bunch of things that can only be in

00:07:57 ◼   ► the primary iCloud.

00:07:59 ◼   ► So sad.

00:08:02 ◼   ► I see it as like, you know how in Messages you can open up Preferences and sign in with

00:08:06 ◼   ► different accounts?

00:08:07 ◼   ► Like, you can sign in with iMessages or AIM or whatever, I feel like there should be just

00:08:11 ◼   ► a preferences where it's like, sign in with this iCloud account and you'll download all

00:08:15 ◼   ► these photos.

00:08:16 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, you could even put it in the Photos app, although because it's using the

00:08:22 ◼   ► iCloud's syncing infrastructure, I think that's what complicates it, and they pick up, you

00:08:27 ◼   ► know, they're using the same infrastructure as everything else that syncs via iCloud,

00:08:30 ◼   ► which is great, but it has some issues.

00:08:34 ◼   ► I think the whole pausing and throttling of bandwidth for the uploads and downloads is

00:08:39 ◼   ► related and I think this account requirement is related. And it's not good. It needs, we

00:08:47 ◼   ► can try to guess why this is happening, but the bottom line is if a husband and a wife

00:08:52 ◼   ► want to share their photo library, which is perfectly reasonable, my wife and I want to

00:08:56 ◼   ► do that, but I'm going to have to log her out of her iCloud account and into mine if

00:09:02 ◼   ► she wants to do that. And that's going to have other side effects. And, you know, we'll

00:09:06 ◼   ► probably do it because she wants access to the library, but it's kind of dumb that there's

00:09:10 ◼   ► no other way to do it or that she can't just be logged in for that one thing.

00:09:13 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a terrible solution to the problem. It's just so bad. Like, because iCloud is

00:09:18 ◼   ► so important now, in theory. Unless, you know, your wife doesn't use a lot of the features,

00:09:24 ◼   ► but in theory it's supposed to be so important. Like, making that the only option seems kind

00:09:28 ◼   ► seems kind of crazy. The more and more I hear about photos, because again like I

00:09:32 ◼   ► haven't used it, I just am not... there's just too many complaints for me to want

00:09:38 ◼   ► to jump into this right now, but like the more and more I hear about it the more

00:09:41 ◼   ► and more I think it's maybe not done. It reminds me of Final Cut, like they

00:09:46 ◼   ► released it, I think you said this, they released it before it was kind of

00:09:50 ◼   ► finished. I don't know, I feel like it is... what it is is done, but it's

00:09:57 ◼   ► very clear that there are features that just aren't in there that they need to add. I mean,

00:10:01 ◼   ► the fact that you can't do geotagging in the app is ridiculous. That's one of those things.

00:10:05 ◼   ► I feel like the iCloud stuff is separately—this is hard, right? You've got huge libraries

00:10:11 ◼   ► that you have to import. You've got this whole new cloud services thing that you have to

00:10:14 ◼   ► sync to, and you've rewritten this app. And then there's a lot of moving parts here. And

00:10:19 ◼   ► actually, I'm really liking it. I'm enjoying the fact that I have access to my whole library

00:10:24 ◼   ► and that it's in the cloud.

00:10:26 ◼   ► But there are definitely issues.

00:10:28 ◼   ► One of the big issues is your iOS devices.

00:10:31 ◼   ► If you've got a 50,000 or 40,000 image library, you tap on like the photo sharing button in

00:10:36 ◼   ► an app and it just sits there for like 20 seconds because it's parsing, whatever it's

00:10:41 ◼   ► doing it's like parsing the 50,000 records in your library or something and Apple's got

00:10:46 ◼   ► to fix that.

00:10:47 ◼   ► So there are a lot of little things.

00:10:48 ◼   ► I would say it's not a disaster at all.

00:10:53 ◼   ► It is enjoyable.

00:10:55 ◼   ► It brings a lot to the party, but at the same time, it is most definitely early days.

00:11:00 ◼   ► And if you just don't want to deal with it yet, nobody's going to make you.

00:11:05 ◼   ► So really, you have to be a little bit of a pioneer.

00:11:08 ◼   ► But I do feel like I'm getting something out of being a pioneer, but it is rougher than

00:11:15 ◼   ► it will be later because they'll add in features and figure out some of the cloud-syncing stuff.

00:11:19 ◼   ► I think like Final Cut and even iMovie and some of the other apps that they've rewritten,

00:11:26 ◼   ► the philosophy seems to be, let's just get it out there.

00:11:29 ◼   ► And getting it out there, we can start making it better once it's out there.

00:11:32 ◼   ► We can't just sit here and not ship it forever.

00:11:33 ◼   ► And they've reached the point where it's like, we're going to ship this, and then we're going

00:11:36 ◼   ► to see what people's issues are, and we're going to fix it.

00:11:38 ◼   ► And hopefully, this stuff will get fixed rapidly in the next few months.

00:11:44 ◼   ► But we'll see.

00:11:45 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:11:46 ◼   ► But I'm kind of glad they got it out there.

00:11:48 ◼   ► And now, you know, those of us on the frontier here will just have to deal with it.

00:11:53 ◼   ► So we'll probably talk about this point later.

00:11:57 ◼   ► But I think, like, my feeling is when something is new like this, and see if you can guess

00:12:03 ◼   ► my hinting here, if something is new like this and you don't necessarily need it, like,

00:12:07 ◼   ► you don't need photos right now because, like, iPhotos did exist, I get, like, that you can,

00:12:14 ◼   ► that there can be things that aren't 100%, like, there's things that are missing, or

00:12:18 ◼   ► are things that need to be added but it's like I think there's more of a

00:12:22 ◼   ► problem when like say for example if something already exists like we all

00:12:26 ◼   ► hated iOS 7 for the many bugs and problems that it had

00:12:30 ◼   ► because it was kind of you kind of had no option it was kind of like that was

00:12:33 ◼   ► what you needed to use because iOS existed your iPhone

00:12:36 ◼   ► existed but like something completely brand new

00:12:39 ◼   ► where you're not it's not replacing something

00:12:42 ◼   ► completely I think it's it's kind of fine do you get do you get what I'm what

00:12:46 ◼   ► what I'm driving at.

00:12:47 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, and I think, I mean, I think calling it, I think there's a reason this isn't iPhoto10,

00:12:54 ◼   ► is calling it Filecut Pro 10 made people say, "Hey, are you saying we need to replace our

00:12:59 ◼   ► old Final Cut with this new thing that we don't like?" And, you know, I think the idea

00:13:02 ◼   ► is no, you don't need to. And I think that's what Apple is saying about photos, is photos

00:13:06 ◼   ► is here, we're not going to update the old things, but they're not going away, they don't

00:13:09 ◼   ► get deleted, your old libraries remain, I mean, there's lots of, you know, there's lots

00:13:14 ◼   ► of things like that. So it doesn't it doesn't feel like this is quite the forced upgrade.

00:13:18 ◼   ► I think though that if you're an iPhoto user, you know, you're kind of starving for something

00:13:23 ◼   ► better than iPhoto. And so that that's the thing that's pushing you into jumping into

00:13:27 ◼   ► this. Not that not that Apple is forcing you to do it, but that like you really would like

00:13:31 ◼   ► to be out of iPhoto. That's certainly how I felt. It's like, please let me get out of

00:13:35 ◼   ► here. So so we'll see how it goes. I I'm going to be optimistic. I feel like this is this

00:13:43 ◼   ► is a place where some of this stuff just obviously should be—is missing and needs to be added

00:13:50 ◼   ► or things that are broken that need to be fixed. And we've seen with, I think, certainly

00:13:55 ◼   ► with Final Cut that Apple did a good job of addressing what the issues were. So I hope

00:13:59 ◼   ► that they do that with this. This is super important to them as a company. They need

00:14:02 ◼   ► to do this and do it right. So we'll see where it goes. But yeah, the geotagging thing is

00:14:07 ◼   ► the one that really kills me. They got to fix that because not being able to take your

00:14:12 ◼   ► pictures and say, "I shot them here," is bad. We have a little bit more follow-up,

00:14:20 ◼   ► follow-out stuff. Listener Zach wrote in to suggest, we were talking, we were speculating

00:14:27 ◼   ► last week about the future of OS X and how it would be, maybe its name would change because

00:14:33 ◼   ► somebody was asking about, "Will we ever see OS 11?" And Zach suggested Apple OS with

00:14:38 ◼   ► merged OSs and a new naming scheme. This is Upgrading Zach. He has self-identified as

00:14:43 ◼   ► an Upgrading. And I don't know, I heard from a lot of people who said, "Well, there'll

00:14:48 ◼   ► just be one Apple OS and there'll be a Mac version of it and an iPhone and iPad version

00:14:55 ◼   ► of it." I don't believe that. I just don't, I mean, it could happen, I suppose, but I

00:15:00 ◼   ► kind of feel like those OSs are not converging. I think this is something that was a very

00:15:06 ◼   ► Scott Forstall era way of thinking and that the current people at Apple do not view a

00:15:11 ◼   ► convergence of operating systems so much as shared resources and shared services, but

00:15:17 ◼   ► not like it's the same OS with the same branding. I just kind of don't believe that. And although

00:15:22 ◼   ► iOS, you know, you could rebrand it Apple OS, I don't think they're gonna rebrand the

00:15:26 ◼   ► iPhone as the Apple phone and the iPad as the Apple pad. So iOS for iPhone and iPad

00:15:30 ◼   ► kind of makes sense to me, but OS X is the one that I still am kind of high on my feeling

00:15:37 ◼   ► that it might end up going back to Mac OS at some point. Anyway, I don't think they're

00:15:41 ◼   ► going to merge.

00:15:42 ◼   ► >>No, the fact that the watch is called Watch OS, like they don't even call that iOS, even

00:15:49 ◼   ► pushes that further away from me. If this ran iOS 8, like if it said it ran iOS 8, then

00:15:54 ◼   ► I might buy it, but they've just introduced a new product and they've given it a new OS

00:15:58 ◼   ► name.

00:15:59 ◼   ► Which is good because it doesn't behave like, we'll talk about this, but it doesn't behave

00:16:02 ◼   ► like iOS, so it's good that they don't say that it's iOS because it is so not.

00:16:06 ◼   ► It does not.

00:16:08 ◼   ► We've got a couple like in the family follow up.

00:16:11 ◼   ► Do you want to talk about some stuff that's going on at Relay?

00:16:14 ◼   ► Yeah, so today we announced that the incredible Mac Power Users, the podcasting institution

00:16:22 ◼   ► that is Mac Power Users has joined Relay FM and just we are beyond thrilled that we have

00:16:29 ◼   ► the fantastic Katie Floyd and David Sparks as part of the Relay family now.

00:16:33 ◼   ► So the entire back catalogue of MacPower users now lives at relay.fm/mpu.

00:16:38 ◼   ► You can subscribe to the new feed there. If you are already subscribed with the

00:16:42 ◼   ► 5x5 feed it will transfer over but my recommendation if you're listening to

00:16:47 ◼   ► this now is to subscribe to the new Relay feed so you don't get episode

00:16:50 ◼   ► duplicates and all that kind of stuff. It can be a bit messy.

00:16:53 ◼   ► Oh podcast feeds are the worst.

00:16:55 ◼   ► So I know that there are ways to not get episode duplicates,

00:16:59 ◼   ► but then it brings up more potential risks.

00:17:02 ◼   ► So we're just taking the path of, believe it or not,

00:17:05 ◼   ► least resistance with it.

00:17:06 ◼   ► As Jason can attest to.

00:17:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, man.

00:17:10 ◼   ► It's the worst.

00:17:14 ◼   ► - So we are just so thrilled.

00:17:16 ◼   ► If you've not heard Mac Power Users, you really should,

00:17:19 ◼   ► because it is just incredible.

00:17:20 ◼   ► Katie and David have been doing this since 2009.

00:17:25 ◼   ► It was so much fun, because we did an import

00:17:27 ◼   ► of the show notes, and I was going through

00:17:29 ◼   ► and just tidying some things up,

00:17:31 ◼   ► and it was really fun to follow it through from episode one,

00:17:35 ◼   ► because I was like, "Oh, the iPad's been released now!"

00:17:37 ◼   ► And just looking at how things changed, it's really great.

00:17:41 ◼   ► And if you've not heard the show,

00:17:43 ◼   ► what I'm gonna do and go put in our show notes today,

00:17:44 ◼   ► which you can find at relay.fm/upgrades/34,

00:17:48 ◼   ► I'm gonna put the two workflow episodes, mine and Jason's,

00:17:51 ◼   ► 'cause that might be a nice little taster for you,

00:17:53 ◼   ► in case you've not yet heard it.

00:17:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a great show.

00:17:57 ◼   ► Those are great people.

00:17:59 ◼   ► David lives not far from my in-laws house.

00:18:03 ◼   ► So we have like breakfast or lunch

00:18:05 ◼   ► when I'm down in Southern California.

00:18:06 ◼   ► And it's great to have them on Relay.

00:18:10 ◼   ► That's a great show.

00:18:11 ◼   ► They have a huge following.

00:18:14 ◼   ► MacPower users, listeners are many and varied.

00:18:17 ◼   ► And we discovered that Federico owes his,

00:18:22 ◼   ► essentially his obsession with iOS automation and Pythonista and things like that to listening

00:18:29 ◼   ► to Mac power users when he was in the hospital, which is a great story.

00:18:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, he wrote that on his site on MacStory.

00:18:34 ◼   ► - On MacStory.

00:18:35 ◼   ► - So I'll put that in the show notes too.

00:18:36 ◼   ► - Nice.

00:18:37 ◼   ► - 'Cause he said to me, he was like, "I have a little story to tell in my link today."

00:18:40 ◼   ► And I was like, "Okay."

00:18:41 ◼   ► - That's a good one.

00:18:44 ◼   ► Also in the Relay family, we should mention that there's now a Clockwise t-shirt.

00:18:49 ◼   ► Not yet, Myke, not yet an upgrade t-shirt.

00:18:52 ◼   ► We can talk about that now, or should we leave it for the Ask upgrade?

00:18:56 ◼   ► Let's tease that we'll talk about it in the Ask upgrade.

00:18:59 ◼   ► But anyway, you can go to teespring.com/clockwise and it'll also be in the show notes, which

00:19:04 ◼   ► are in your podcasting app, or at relay.fm/upgrades/34.

00:19:09 ◼   ► And you can go to teespring.com/clockwise and buy a Clockwise t-shirt, which is the

00:19:14 ◼   ► Clockwise logo of the Clockwise arrow inside the gear.

00:19:19 ◼   ► On the front and on the back it says keep watching the clock and has the clockwise URL

00:19:24 ◼   ► from Relay and it comes in a gold color which is the closest match to what the actual podcast

00:19:30 ◼   ► logo is.

00:19:31 ◼   ► So it's very colorful.

00:19:32 ◼   ► It's the hypercritical gold John Zaragoza would point out.

00:19:35 ◼   ► It's the classic hypercritical gold and there's also a tie-dye version if you want to spend

00:19:38 ◼   ► $25 you can get a tie-dye t-shirt with the clockwise logo on it because why not?

00:19:42 ◼   ► Tie-dye.

00:19:43 ◼   ► Hey California.

00:19:44 ◼   ► I just for everybody that likes the yellow and for everybody that doesn't like the yellow

00:19:48 ◼   ► I've really pushed Jason to make this t-shirt yellow.

00:19:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, at one point it was gray and you said,

00:19:54 ◼   ► make it yellow and I said, okay.

00:19:56 ◼   ► - Because it should be yellow because the show's yellow

00:19:59 ◼   ► and I have about a thousand gray t-shirts now.

00:20:04 ◼   ► So yellow is the best.

00:20:06 ◼   ► That's why we went blue with the connected one.

00:20:08 ◼   ► We wanna put a bit more color into our wardrobes.

00:20:12 ◼   ► So that's great.

00:20:13 ◼   ► So you can find those there.

00:20:14 ◼   ► So go support clockwise.

00:20:16 ◼   ► It's a great show.

00:20:17 ◼   ► support those guys Jason and Dan by buying a t-shirt.

00:20:22 ◼   ► All right and we're on to topics so would you like to tell us before we get there about

00:20:27 ◼   ► a friend?

00:20:28 ◼   ► This week's episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Hover.

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00:21:37 ◼   ► hover just throw that in because it kind of just makes sense it feels a little

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00:21:45 ◼   ► unless you pay us. I don't get that. And Hover make sure they take care of that for you,

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00:22:35 ◼   ► I have so many domains in there. Not as many as you and Matt Alexander have, but I have

00:22:40 ◼   ► many, many, many domains. I've been getting emails from them due to the, like, ICANN policy

00:22:46 ◼   ► that they want to remind you that your information is there and it should be up to date. And

00:22:49 ◼   ► I'm having a lot of "I bought that" moments.

00:22:53 ◼   ► Why do I own this?

00:22:55 ◼   ► Okay, you know, but I did go on a frenzy in August when I was trying to find six colors.

00:23:01 ◼   ► I bought a lot of crazy domains then, so I'll have to, this August, I'll have to decide

00:23:04 ◼   ► whether I want to keep them or let them go back into the world.

00:23:08 ◼   ► Can I just do one very very very quick piece of follow-up on follow-up?

00:23:11 ◼   ► Yes.

00:23:12 ◼   ► Because in last week's episode you did a bit of follow-up about the Magic Mouse.

00:23:15 ◼   ► Oh yes, and somebody pointed out that, so somebody said that the Magic Mouse had a speaker

00:23:21 ◼   ► in it and it was a fake click and people wrote in to say it's not, it's a real click.

00:23:26 ◼   ► There was an Apple Mouse that had a speaker and a fake click but the current Magic Mouse

00:23:30 ◼   ► that we're thinking of does not have that.

00:23:32 ◼   ► That's what I was gonna, 'cause I was gonna say, I didn't know this, but there's no way

00:23:36 ◼   ► that that is a fake click.

00:23:37 ◼   ► Like 100% that's real.

00:23:39 ◼   ► I think as we said at the time, we had no idea about what was real or not.

00:23:43 ◼   ► We were just taking people's word for it.

00:23:45 ◼   ► So yeah.

00:23:46 ◼   ► And I wanted to clarify, I do own one and use one.

00:23:47 ◼   ► 'Cause you said that we didn't use one, but I do.

00:23:50 ◼   ► And so I didn't know about the tapping thing and I still need to check that out.

00:23:53 ◼   ► So there was that app that you mentioned that allows you to do tapping.

00:23:57 ◼   ► Steven and I were completely just baffled.

00:23:59 ◼   ► We had no way to deal with that.

00:24:01 ◼   ► So I'm glad you can come in and say, yes, it's a real mechanical click.

00:24:05 ◼   ► So you were at the Yosemite conference.

00:24:09 ◼   ► I was.

00:24:10 ◼   ► So what was the Yosemite conference?

00:24:12 ◼   ► Did you just learn about OS X for a week?

00:24:15 ◼   ► So people were saying, "Hey, you went to Yosemite.

00:24:18 ◼   ► That's like the OS version.

00:24:20 ◼   ► That's a funny coincidence."

00:24:21 ◼   ► And it's like, I mean, so Dave Klein and his family who do the Cococonf series of conferences,

00:24:26 ◼   ► which are developer conferences with like technical developer presentations.

00:24:31 ◼   ► They're like a sort of more of a roaming WWDC than some of these other conferences that

00:24:35 ◼   ► are more like inspirational and big thoughts and kind of stuff.

00:24:38 ◼   ► That's the impression I get.

00:24:39 ◼   ► I've never been to one because I'm not a developer, but they decided when OS X Yosemite was announced

00:24:45 ◼   ► that it was a perfect excuse to do an event in Yosemite National Park devoted to Apple

00:24:52 ◼   ► stuff and make it more of the thinky, inspirational, big picture kind of things rather than the

00:24:58 ◼   ► let's look at code kind of stuff that they usually do.

00:25:02 ◼   ► And it was great.

00:25:04 ◼   ► We all said, the big question is, should they just do it in Yosemite again next year or

00:25:08 ◼   ► are they going to move to wherever Apple's next code name is?

00:25:13 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:25:14 ◼   ► If it's OS X Death Valley, then maybe we'll just go back to Yosemite.

00:25:18 ◼   ► But I would be very surprised.

00:25:21 ◼   ► It seems like putting death in the name of your product would be a bad idea, but you

00:25:25 ◼   ► never know.

00:25:26 ◼   ► It's Apple.

00:25:27 ◼   ► They could do anything.

00:25:28 ◼   ► Seriously, Matt Fricks.

00:25:29 ◼   ► Anyway, it was great.

00:25:31 ◼   ► Yosemite National Park is spectacular.

00:25:33 ◼   ► If people haven't been, you should go sometime.

00:25:37 ◼   ► People come having...

00:25:38 ◼   ► I grew up very near there and people from all over the world come to see it.

00:25:44 ◼   ► In fact, they would often go...

00:25:46 ◼   ► I grew up in a little gold rush town, so people would often come to the little gold rush town

00:25:49 ◼   ► after or before they went to Yosemite as part of their sort of California adventure that

00:25:53 ◼   ► they were taking.

00:25:54 ◼   ► in that little gold rush town where I worked summers at a deli, we had European and Asian

00:26:01 ◼   ► tourists all the—it was just crazy, like all the time in the summer. And they were there because they

00:26:07 ◼   ► were also going to Yosemite. Every single one of them was also going to Yosemite. So it was

00:26:11 ◼   ► spectacular. We were at the Yosemite Lodge, which is right by the waterfalls. There's a huge set of

00:26:17 ◼   ► waterfalls. There's an upper and a lower falls. And yes, even though it's California, there was

00:26:21 ◼   ► water in the waterfall. We haven't run out of it quite yet. Probably in another month or two we'll

00:26:25 ◼   ► be out. And I, yeah, so I was standing at a waterfall and I sent you a picture of a waterfall.

00:26:30 ◼   ► - It looked so beautiful. I was so jealous. - Yeah, it was, it was beautiful.

00:26:36 ◼   ► Ski Man in the chat room is asking if we had internet. The Wi-Fi was, you know,

00:26:41 ◼   ► tech conferences kill the Wi-Fi anyway, and the Wi-Fi at Yosemite Lodge is tenuous at best.

00:26:48 ◼   ► But it turns out I had a couple bars of 4G in the valley. So that was, depending on where you were,

00:26:54 ◼   ► you could get, because there are these huge tall granite monoliths all around you.

00:26:57 ◼   ► And so depending on where you are, signal can vary wildly. But we had, you know, I did have a

00:27:06 ◼   ► couple of bars of 4G for, so I use that a lot. So that's what I, I sent you the picture of the

00:27:10 ◼   ► waterfall. It was really beautiful. We were soaking wet. It was raining. But it was, it was

00:27:14 ◼   ► beautiful. So I hope they do it again. I imagine that the Klein family will probably do something

00:27:18 ◼   ► like this again and I think they're just really hoping for some great picturesque resort

00:27:23 ◼   ► destination for the name of the next version of OS X so that they can choose that.

00:27:30 ◼   ► - You gave a talk as well, right? - Yeah, I gave a little presentation on the first day

00:27:38 ◼   ► and it was... yeah, I can never tell how presentations go. I don't know if it was any

00:27:45 ◼   ► good or not. I wanted to talk about enthusiasm. I'm hoping that I'll give that presentation again

00:27:50 ◼   ► sometime and do, you know, refine it a little bit more. But I wanted to talk about enthusiasm and

00:27:56 ◼   ► how enthusiasm drives us. And you can be enthusiastic about a lot of different things.

00:28:01 ◼   ► You can be super enthusiastic about one thing or mildly enthusiastic about a lot of things,

00:28:06 ◼   ► which sort of parallels the incomparable. Why is it not about one thing in particular,

00:28:11 ◼   ► that podcast that I do? Why is it not about Doctor Who or not about science fiction novels or not

00:28:17 ◼   ► about superhero movies or something like that? And the answer is because I'm enthusiastic about all

00:28:23 ◼   ► that stuff and I don't want to dive deep. I kind of want to be able to spread it around a little

00:28:27 ◼   ► bit. And so I talked about that a little and how I feel like the web especially is very much

00:28:31 ◼   ► distorted in rewarding people who are wildly enthusiastic about something and not moderately

00:28:39 ◼   ► enthusiastic about something. And the example I always give is comic books, that there are all

00:28:43 ◼   ► these comic book websites that post 20 or 30 stories a day about what's going on in the comics

00:28:47 ◼   ► industry and I just don't care enough. I kind of care a little bit, but there's no... It's a lot

00:28:51 ◼   ► harder to serve somebody like me who wants to read 30 minutes of comic book news a week, let's say,

00:28:59 ◼   ► or maybe a month, because you can't... It's harder to build a business on that. You better

00:29:04 ◼   ► better to cater to the people who will read 20 or 30 articles a day.

00:29:08 ◼   ► So that was it.

00:29:09 ◼   ► It was about enthusiasm and all the different forms it comes in and how I feel fortunate

00:29:12 ◼   ► that my career is about things I'm enthusiastic about.

00:29:16 ◼   ► And yeah, it was interesting.

00:29:19 ◼   ► And the other talks were great.

00:29:20 ◼   ► It was a great group.

00:29:21 ◼   ► Gregor: Yeah, it was an awesome lineup.

00:29:23 ◼   ► I was just looking at it then.

00:29:24 ◼   ► David: And they did morning sessions and evening sessions, and then the afternoon was free

00:29:28 ◼   ► to...

00:29:29 ◼   ► There were groups and stuff going on hikes and photo walks and stuff.

00:29:32 ◼   ► We went with James Duncan Davidson and took a photo walk around the falls, which was where

00:29:37 ◼   ► I sent you that picture.

00:29:38 ◼   ► And that was pretty awesome.

00:29:39 ◼   ► And Dave Whiskus was there and Serenity Caldwell and on that photo walk.

00:29:44 ◼   ► And Andy Anotko was kind of shadowing us because he'd gone on the photo walk the day before,

00:29:49 ◼   ► but he wanted to retrace his steps and take more pictures and got to chat with Jim Dalrymple

00:29:52 ◼   ► a little bit.

00:29:53 ◼   ► Just, I mean, it was Michael Lop was there.

00:29:58 ◼   ► So many good, Nevin and Krista Morgan were there.

00:30:01 ◼   ► And it was good to see them.

00:30:02 ◼   ► haven't seen them in a while. It was just a great, yeah, it was a fantastic, all the

00:30:06 ◼   ► speakers were great, every single one of them. It was, it was a, it was a good time.

00:30:10 ◼   ► I was very jealous. Well you'll just have to take some extra time sometime when you're

00:30:16 ◼   ► in Northern California and you can go see it. Maybe I'll have to. It's pretty good.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Should we start talking about the Apple Watch? I mean that's what people were here for today.

00:30:24 ◼   ► Yeah I guess. I mean, yeah sure, might as well talk about the Apple Watch. We have,

00:30:29 ◼   ► mean in true upgrade style we have a bunch of questions from listeners

00:30:35 ◼   ► which we'll get to because a few of them highlight some interesting

00:30:39 ◼   ► points about the the watch itself but I mean you posted your initial reactions

00:30:45 ◼   ► and I kind of want to get an like if you can sum it up like give me an overall

00:30:49 ◼   ► feeling I figure we'll both do this first what is your overall feeling about

00:30:54 ◼   ► the Apple watch and then we'll get into that for example how you got your hands

00:30:58 ◼   ► on yours is quite interesting.

00:31:00 ◼   ► - I like it, it's fun.

00:31:03 ◼   ► I feel like I am only now kind of starting to figure out

00:31:08 ◼   ► how I'm going to use it.

00:31:11 ◼   ► Like there's the act of like,

00:31:12 ◼   ► let's see what everything is and how it all works,

00:31:15 ◼   ► which is not how you use it day to day.

00:31:17 ◼   ► And so I feel like I'm starting to settle down

00:31:19 ◼   ► into like getting some idea of how I use it day to day.

00:31:21 ◼   ► But it's a neat gadget, it tells the time,

00:31:25 ◼   ► it is really well connected to my iPhone,

00:31:28 ◼   ► which I really like, and I'm starting to understand it.

00:31:31 ◼   ► But I'm enjoying it so far.

00:31:33 ◼   ► I think it's been a lot of fun.

00:31:34 ◼   ► I definitely, I post my thing and I heard it

00:31:36 ◼   ► from a couple of people who are like,

00:31:38 ◼   ► "Oh, well, here's another article where, you know,

00:31:40 ◼   ► people are not raving about it and just dancing around

00:31:44 ◼   ► saying that it's not that interesting."

00:31:46 ◼   ► It's like, I don't know what article you read,

00:31:47 ◼   ► but it wasn't mine, 'cause I think it's really interesting.

00:31:50 ◼   ► Me not understanding things about it

00:31:52 ◼   ► and trying to figure out how it fits into my life

00:31:54 ◼   ► is not the same as not being enthusiastic about it.

00:31:56 ◼   ► I think it's pretty cool.

00:31:57 ◼   ► I'm pretty enthusiastic about it.

00:32:02 ◼   ► Do I have things I can critique about it?

00:32:05 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:32:06 ◼   ► I think there are some things in it that are probably mistakes.

00:32:08 ◼   ► And I still am trying to wrap my head around some of the decisions that they made and try

00:32:12 ◼   ► to figure out whether that works for me or not.

00:32:14 ◼   ► But you know, it's a new, weird, different kind of product.

00:32:18 ◼   ► So I think that is all to be expected.

00:32:23 ◼   ► The Apple Watch is 1.0.

00:32:24 ◼   ► Like it is very 1.0.

00:32:25 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:32:26 ◼   ► Like, you know, you say there are mistakes.

00:32:30 ◼   ► There are just like, it's littered with tiny problems.

00:32:35 ◼   ► But I'm okay with that, and this is kind of what I was trying to explain earlier.

00:32:38 ◼   ► I'm okay with that because I understand what this product is, and part of the reason that

00:32:44 ◼   ► it has problems is because it is very ambitious.

00:32:47 ◼   ► So I mean, I've used Android Wear and found Android Wear to have some bugs but to be pretty

00:32:52 ◼   ► stable overall.

00:32:53 ◼   ► And when I originally tried Android Wear, it was way more stable than what the Apple

00:32:58 ◼   ► Watch is.

00:33:00 ◼   ► But the Android Wear watch just gave me some notifications.

00:33:05 ◼   ► That was all it did.

00:33:07 ◼   ► And I could play and pause music and archive email.

00:33:09 ◼   ► Like I mean I know that it's changed now and it's also more advanced but I'm like comparing

00:33:14 ◼   ► my original kind of feelings from both.

00:33:17 ◼   ► And the Apple Watch is way more advanced than that and it does some really incredible things

00:33:21 ◼   ► that we can talk about.

00:33:22 ◼   ► the watch started to make more sense for me when I realised its purpose. So I think

00:33:29 ◼   ► I think the problem that I had initially and I think the problem that many people

00:33:34 ◼   ► are having is they are treating this device like it's a tiny iPhone. Like they

00:33:38 ◼   ► are thinking about it in that way. Because so many of the the watches

00:33:42 ◼   ► problems come from when you are going into it and asking it to do something

00:33:47 ◼   ► for you. So you're going into it and trying to open an app or play a game or

00:33:51 ◼   ► something. That is not what this device is for. Like I feel that the Apple

00:33:56 ◼   ► Watch is a device that comes and grabs you when it needs you as opposed to you

00:34:02 ◼   ► going to it to get information and that is a fundamental difference between the

00:34:06 ◼   ► iPhone and the Apple Watch. And I think once I understood that I feel a lot

00:34:11 ◼   ► better about the product. But when I'm trying to go to it for things it's...

00:34:16 ◼   ► There are some issues with it and we can maybe talk about the home screen and

00:34:20 ◼   ► apps in general and why I think Apple's made some mistakes there, but I think

00:34:24 ◼   ► that I feel a lot better about this product once I actually spent some time

00:34:29 ◼   ► not using it and just having it grab me when it should rather than

00:34:35 ◼   ► me just going to it and just playing and tinkering around.

00:34:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree with you that part of the complication of this product is that it's so ambitious, it's trying to do a lot, and then when you

00:34:46 ◼   ► settle back and sort of like let it come to you, it makes a lot more sense. I think that

00:34:52 ◼   ► is philosophically what they went for. I think that's where I feel like there's a little

00:34:56 ◼   ► bit of a lack of focus is that they want it to come to you, but they also want to have

00:35:01 ◼   ► a billion apps in that crazy app interface.

00:35:03 ◼   ► - Yep. Oh, good.

00:35:04 ◼   ► - And I'm not sure those go together, but when I realized, it started to make sense

00:35:12 ◼   ► to me when I realized the two most important things I could do on the watch are swipe down

00:35:15 ◼   ► and swipe up. That if I swipe down, I'm going to see my notifications. And if I swipe up,

00:35:21 ◼   ► I'm going to see glances. And that if I have a small number of glances and the glances

00:35:26 ◼   ► are important to me, then that is a very quick way to access stuff without going out to the

00:35:31 ◼   ► app launcher and finding an app and launching it. It's a little bit like the dock. It's

00:35:35 ◼   ► like a shortcut kind of thing because you can always tap on the glance and end up in

00:35:39 ◼   ► an app. But that, once I started doing that and thinking, I don't need to go out to the

00:35:44 ◼   ► app launcher every time I want to do something. Then I was like, "Oh, okay. This makes a little

00:35:49 ◼   ► more sense to me now." The third-party apps not being integrated, like third-party apps

00:35:54 ◼   ► should be able to do complications in the watch face. That would be easier that if I

00:35:57 ◼   ► want to stick data from one of my apps on the watch face and then tap on that little

00:36:01 ◼   ► corner of the watch face to launch that app and get more information, that would be nice.

00:36:05 ◼   ► I hope they get there eventually.

00:36:07 ◼   ► That feels like an SDK thing to me.

00:36:09 ◼   ► Like that feels like that is what would be in the SDK is how I see it.

00:36:13 ◼   ► I heard some developers say that they actually looked and discovered that complications are

00:36:17 ◼   ► extensions.

00:36:18 ◼   ► They are extensions.

00:36:19 ◼   ► So theoretically a developer could write a complication if Apple allowed it.

00:36:24 ◼   ► So you know, yeah, it's a 1.0 product.

00:36:26 ◼   ► I feel like the hardware, this is total Apple, modern Apple, right?

00:36:30 ◼   ► I feel like the hardware is spectacular.

00:36:34 ◼   ► It's spot on.

00:36:36 ◼   ► And then the software is like, "Let's figure it out!"

00:36:39 ◼   ► We both have the sport, don't we?

00:36:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:42 ◼   ► I have the green, as it happens.

00:36:45 ◼   ► A green sport watch appeared.

00:36:48 ◼   ► I have the developer edition, I have the blue.

00:36:51 ◼   ► Oh, nice.

00:36:55 ◼   ► Everything about the hardware is amazing.

00:37:00 ◼   ► It's so beautiful.

00:37:01 ◼   ► the screen I said this before but the screen on this thing is about ten times

00:37:06 ◼   ► better than it should be. Oh yeah. Like there is no reason sometimes I catch

00:37:11 ◼   ► things like some of the notifications like the calendar of alert notification

00:37:16 ◼   ► it's one of the most beautiful screens I've seen on an Apple product the colors

00:37:21 ◼   ► and like just the way it is designed it's like it's mind-blowing like it just

00:37:26 ◼   ► to me just looks so good because the screen is so good and it is so small so

00:37:32 ◼   ► everything's so crisp and there are parts where this even like in

00:37:38 ◼   ► software design as well where the two of them meet together and it blows my mind

00:37:42 ◼   ► like one of my most favorite things is when you are centered on

00:37:48 ◼   ► the home screen to the watch and you zoom in to the watch with the digital

00:37:52 ◼   ► crown and it comes into focus by building the watch face as you zoom.

00:37:58 ◼   ► Have you tried that? Do you know what I'm talking about here? I don't know. So if

00:38:05 ◼   ► you go to the home screen, if you just press the crown and go to the

00:38:09 ◼   ► home screen and then zoom in on the watch slowly, it builds the

00:38:16 ◼   ► Oh yeah yeah I have noticed that. Yeah and that to me is one of the... I just find that so beautiful.

00:38:23 ◼   ► Yeah it does sort of make me want to be able to at any time zoom out with the crown out of the watch face and you can't.

00:38:31 ◼   ► Once you're in there you're in there. But yeah that's that the the animations on some of the faces where it sort of sweeps around the dial are...

00:38:42 ◼   ► There's some amazing stuff there. Just a lot of the animations in general are really good

00:38:47 ◼   ► I mean, so there are parts of it that are just so good and I really like the sport band

00:38:52 ◼   ► I found it a little bit sweaty by the end of the day, but I'm totally fine with that

00:38:57 ◼   ► I do want another band because the blue sport band is not a goes of everything kind of band

00:39:03 ◼   ► And I'm waiting to get the Milanese

00:39:06 ◼   ► But I'm not ordering it online because I'm not gonna wait until June for it to ship

00:39:11 ◼   ► I expect to be able to either get it in the UK or in San Francisco before then

00:39:15 ◼   ► like I'm not gonna pay 129 pounds and wait for something until June I'll just

00:39:19 ◼   ► get it when it's available in the store even if it's not available until July and

00:39:23 ◼   ► I just think that's crazy like yeah okay here's 129 pounds now and I'll just

00:39:29 ◼   ► wait until June I know they don't charge you but it just seems like a crazy thing

00:39:32 ◼   ► to me I'll just wait. I want to talk about the home screen.

00:39:38 ◼   ► Because I think that this... So fundamentally I think that the fact that

00:39:43 ◼   ► Apple call where the apps go the home screen is like problem number one.

00:39:50 ◼   ► Because I don't think Apple consider the app screen as the home screen. I think

00:39:55 ◼   ► they consider the watch face as the home screen. And I checked in the

00:39:59 ◼   ► documentation, I checked in the user guide, because I wanted to double check this. They call the

00:40:03 ◼   ► app screen, the home screen. It's not home. And the lock screen on the

00:40:08 ◼   ► iPhone is not the watch face, right? Because if you think like on the iPhone

00:40:13 ◼   ► you look at the watch face and then you look at the lock screen and you go

00:40:19 ◼   ► to the apps, right? But the utility of the watch face on the watch is way more and

00:40:26 ◼   ► the purpose of it is way more than the lock screen is to the iPhone.

00:40:31 ◼   ► The lock screen on the iPhone exists so you don't accidentally launch apps.

00:40:34 ◼   ► That's why it's there, right? So it's in your pocket and it's not just

00:40:38 ◼   ► pressing apps all the time. But the watch face, that is the primary function of

00:40:43 ◼   ► this device. That is home. And the fact that the home screen is the app screen,

00:40:52 ◼   ► it just makes no sense to me. Because it just doesn't feel like a

00:40:58 ◼   ► place where I want to be a lot of the time.

00:41:00 ◼   ► I agree.

00:41:01 ◼   ► This is, I mean, a bunch of us have been saying this, I agree with you completely.

00:41:04 ◼   ► The face is home, and then from home the directly accessible things are notifications and glances.

00:41:11 ◼   ► The watch, when you go into the app screen, and I think that's a good name for it, you're

00:41:16 ◼   ► kind of dumping out of home and going to this place that looks like the iPhone home screen,

00:41:22 ◼   ► but it's not home on the watch.

00:41:24 ◼   ► It's in some ways I feel like,

00:41:27 ◼   ► it's not necessarily that I've failed

00:41:31 ◼   ► when I have to go to the app launcher screen

00:41:33 ◼   ► because there's some stuff that's just not,

00:41:34 ◼   ► I wanna get to it and I don't have a notification from it

00:41:37 ◼   ► and it's not in my glances and I wanna go look it up.

00:41:40 ◼   ► But it's definitely like leafing

00:41:41 ◼   ► through the back of the book.

00:41:42 ◼   ► It's like going through the index.

00:41:44 ◼   ► It's like, oh, I need to go and look something up.

00:41:46 ◼   ► I'm gonna go to the app screen and go find it.

00:41:48 ◼   ► It's like a last resort, not the comfy,

00:41:51 ◼   ► you know, a comfy place that's home.

00:41:53 ◼   ► It's the index of apps.

00:41:55 ◼   ► It's the last resort to get something.

00:41:57 ◼   ► I need to get this thing and I don't have it in front of me.

00:41:59 ◼   ► I'm gonna go get it in the app screen.

00:42:01 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:42:05 ◼   ► All right, we're in violent agreement here.

00:42:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause, so like one other thing

00:42:10 ◼   ► is like the way the buttons work,

00:42:12 ◼   ► like I, 'cause when you press the crown,

00:42:19 ◼   ► it takes you to the apps, not to the watch face, right?

00:42:23 ◼   ► and I want it to take me to the watch face.

00:42:25 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

00:42:27 ◼   ► So if I'm in an app and I press the crown,

00:42:29 ◼   ► I wanna go back to the watch face.

00:42:31 ◼   ► So my theory on this is,

00:42:34 ◼   ► I think that the tapping the crown

00:42:36 ◼   ► should take you to the watch

00:42:38 ◼   ► and tapping the other button should take you home

00:42:40 ◼   ► to the apps.

00:42:42 ◼   ► - I agree.

00:42:43 ◼   ► - And you hold the long button

00:42:44 ◼   ► to bring up the friend circle.

00:42:46 ◼   ► - I agree.

00:42:48 ◼   ► I think devoting that button

00:42:49 ◼   ► to the friend circle is a mistake.

00:42:53 ◼   ► But I thought that since day one, and I still feel that way.

00:42:56 ◼   ► But this is when we talk about 1.0, it's stuff like this.

00:42:58 ◼   ► I feel like we're all gonna learn,

00:43:00 ◼   ► and Apple's gonna learn how people use this,

00:43:03 ◼   ► and is going, I would like to believe

00:43:06 ◼   ► that there will be a software update for the watch

00:43:08 ◼   ► that is very much like, all right, we heard you,

00:43:11 ◼   ► we figured this out, here's our new take.

00:43:14 ◼   ► And those emojis are not there anymore.

00:43:18 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:43:19 ◼   ► Just we're not gonna even talk about them, they're gone.

00:43:21 ◼   ► - I love them in an ironic way.

00:43:24 ◼   ► I like sending them to people.

00:43:26 ◼   ► - 'Cause they're so bad.

00:43:27 ◼   ► - 'Cause they're so ridiculous.

00:43:28 ◼   ► They're just ridiculous.

00:43:29 ◼   ► The animations on them, again, are really great.

00:43:32 ◼   ► They just look ridiculous.

00:43:34 ◼   ► With a creepy, creepy glove hand.

00:43:38 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:43:39 ◼   ► Yeah, it's weird.

00:43:41 ◼   ► So I feel like, I don't know if Apple's going to let us

00:43:45 ◼   ► set what the buttons do,

00:43:46 ◼   ► so much as that Apple may rethink what the buttons do.

00:43:49 ◼   ► And I think that would be fine.

00:43:50 ◼   ► 'Cause I think you're right.

00:43:50 ◼   ► my mental map of the watch, like you,

00:43:52 ◼   ► I kind of want, take me to the watch face,

00:43:55 ◼   ► take me to the app list,

00:43:57 ◼   ► and not this sort of like take me to my friends,

00:44:01 ◼   ► my little list of 12 friends where I spin the dial.

00:44:03 ◼   ► And I'm not sure that's the most efficient way.

00:44:06 ◼   ► It's a fun interface, but I, yeah, it's not my favorite.

00:44:10 ◼   ► I just, should I mention,

00:44:13 ◼   ► I have two things that I wanna mention

00:44:14 ◼   ► before we get to the questions and answers

00:44:16 ◼   ► and maybe hear from a friend.

00:44:17 ◼   ► One is how I got the watch.

00:44:19 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:44:20 ◼   ► promoted that in advance.

00:44:22 ◼   ► It's not a super secret way.

00:44:23 ◼   ► I don't have a watch from Apple.

00:44:25 ◼   ► I talked to them and they said,

00:44:27 ◼   ► "We're probably not gonna be able to get you on lunch day."

00:44:30 ◼   ► It's like, "Oh well."

00:44:31 ◼   ► (imitates air horn)

00:44:34 ◼   ► And I ordered like three minutes or five minutes

00:44:37 ◼   ► into the order period,

00:44:38 ◼   ► but I ordered the one that everybody else ordered,

00:44:39 ◼   ► which was the Space Gray Sport.

00:44:41 ◼   ► And so it's marked as shipping in May.

00:44:43 ◼   ► So I thought, well, you know what?

00:44:46 ◼   ► I'm just, I'm not gonna order a watch just,

00:44:50 ◼   ► I don't know what I was thinking.

00:44:51 ◼   ► It was after midnight.

00:44:52 ◼   ► I'm not gonna order a watch just to get it on day one.

00:44:55 ◼   ► That's a watch I don't want,

00:44:56 ◼   ► which I probably should have just gone ahead and done that.

00:45:00 ◼   ► So the day before the Apple Watch comes out,

00:45:04 ◼   ► I just got home from Yosemite, checking my email

00:45:08 ◼   ► and a friend of mine, former coworker of mine

00:45:11 ◼   ► sends me an email.

00:45:12 ◼   ► It's not an editor, it's a technical guy.

00:45:15 ◼   ► Says, "I've got a watch coming tomorrow

00:45:19 ◼   ► and I don't want it. I was going to put it on eBay or something, but I figure six colors could

00:45:27 ◼   ► use it. Do you want it?" And I say, "Yeah, actually, yes. I will write you a check. I do want it.

00:45:35 ◼   ► I've got a lot of other things going on, but I should probably have the Apple Watch on day one."

00:45:38 ◼   ► And so on the day, he sent me a text when he was working at home. He sent me a text when he got it.

00:45:43 ◼   ► And about two miles from my house, we had a little, like on a street. It was not his street

00:45:49 ◼   ► and not my street we had a like a meet up and there was an exchange of of cash for goods.

00:45:56 ◼   ► Did you get the watch out of a brown paper bag tucked inside a trash can?

00:46:00 ◼   ► Uh like a dead drop I did not. He just handed me the box that it came in the shipping box

00:46:09 ◼   ► and we chatted for five or ten minutes and then I came home and thus began my adventure with

00:46:15 ◼   ► green Apple Watch sport. But it was just kind of funny. It was completely

00:46:19 ◼   ► serendipity. I hadn't, I had sort of planned to just not not be part of the

00:46:24 ◼   ► party, but in the end I got to be part of the party. So now I don't know what I'm

00:46:27 ◼   ► gonna do with the one I ordered. I may cancel that order even though I do like

00:46:30 ◼   ► the the space gray look. But anyway, if I do keep that order then I'll upgrade Ian's

00:46:37 ◼   ► gonna have first crack at buying my other Apple Watch from me. Get the Apple Watch

00:46:41 ◼   ► worn by Jason when he wrote that article. But I haven't decided what I want to do about

00:46:47 ◼   ► that. But anyway, the other thing I wanted to talk about is the cheese vertical.

00:46:50 ◼   ► Yeah. I bought cheese with my Apple watch.

00:46:54 ◼   ► Of course you did. It wasn't Manchego. It was mozzarella because

00:46:58 ◼   ► we, I was making pizza on Saturday night and we were out of mozzarella. So I walked down

00:47:04 ◼   ► to the local Whole Foods, which is very close to my house, which is why I can walk there.

00:47:09 ◼   ► And so that's why I shop there way more than I should, because it's within walking distance.

00:47:13 ◼   ► And I got up to the counter with my little thing of cheese, and I double tapped the little

00:47:20 ◼   ► friends button, and held my wrist up to the little reader, and it all went like bloop

00:47:27 ◼   ► bloop, you know, and that was it.

00:47:31 ◼   ► They let me leave the store with some cheese.

00:47:33 ◼   ► So apparently I bought that cheese with my Apple Watch.

00:47:37 ◼   ► Again, I don't have much of a story here.

00:47:39 ◼   ► It worked, and it's cool that I didn't have to do any thumbprint or anything because I

00:47:45 ◼   ► had my watch on my wrist and so it had validated that I was me.

00:47:52 ◼   ► I just want Apple Pay.

00:47:54 ◼   ► I would like it.

00:47:55 ◼   ► It would be nice.

00:47:56 ◼   ► I know.

00:47:57 ◼   ► Wouldn't that be nice if you had that?

00:47:58 ◼   ► It would be a really great day for everyone.

00:48:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:02 ◼   ► I hope it's coming.

00:48:03 ◼   ► There are lots of like little rumors that fly around and say like Q2 or something.

00:48:08 ◼   ► It's you know it's big businesses, big business in you know that's what they're

00:48:11 ◼   ► doing. They're just business in around each other for a bit and eventually

00:48:14 ◼   ► they're gonna yeah they're gonna do it but this is financial institutions which

00:48:18 ◼   ► are just slow slow. On the last analyst call Apple actually likened it to the

00:48:24 ◼   ► carrier negotiations. That it was that difficult that they really had to go

00:48:29 ◼   ► into each market and negotiate with individual banks and individual payment

00:48:33 ◼   ► processors and get it to work. So I really have my fingers crossed for a more firm

00:48:38 ◼   ► announcement on the call today. At least to say yes it's gonna be coming to these

00:48:44 ◼   ► countries in Q2. Like I want to hear Apple say it and then I'll be happy. Like

00:48:49 ◼   ► I don't care if I have to wait enough for three months or whatever I just want

00:48:51 ◼   ► to know that it is happening rather than like yeah we're working on it. Like

00:48:55 ◼   ► that's not you know that's that's nothing and until it's until there's a

00:48:59 ◼   ► confirmation working on it means nothing right because we still don't have iTunes

00:49:03 ◼   ► radio you know so it's it's kind of the same deal yeah we're gonna bring it to

00:49:10 ◼   ► other regions okay well we'll see I still feel like I have so much more to

00:49:16 ◼   ► say about the Apple watch but I figure what we should maybe do is start going

00:49:20 ◼   ► through some of these questions because it might it might a little bit I did

00:49:25 ◼   ► just want to just just before we do move away out because I don't think we're

00:49:28 ◼   ► gonna talk about this again I do want to just talk about the home screen a little

00:49:31 ◼   ► bit more in so much as to say like there it's it's it's weird it's not good it's

00:49:39 ◼   ► not good so the app like the app targets the touch targets always too small I

00:49:44 ◼   ► very very frequently do not open the app that I want I open the app that's next

00:49:51 ◼   ► to it do you feel do you it does that happen to you no okay maybe my fingers

00:49:58 ◼   ► bigger than yours I don't know or maybe I'm maybe I've just just hit in the

00:50:01 ◼   ► wrong places trying to arrange apps is a nightmare it's an absolute nightmare so

00:50:09 ◼   ► you know like on the iPhone they like when you try and move apps around it

00:50:14 ◼   ► pushes all of the apps that are next to it right or around it but the thing is

00:50:18 ◼   ► with the Apple watch what it seems to do it pushes them in all directions yeah so

00:50:24 ◼   ► Like you move one app and the entire line changes. It's like, "Oh, just let me put them

00:50:29 ◼   ► arbitrarily like or something." It's a bit, it's nightmarish to arrange apps. But there

00:50:37 ◼   ► are some apps that are really, really good. And there are some apps that are not good.

00:50:43 ◼   ► And I think it's clear who has had the most time with a device.

00:50:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, although I think not necessarily,

00:50:51 ◼   ► but it does seem to feel that way that we know.

00:50:55 ◼   ► We know that developers got to go to labs

00:50:57 ◼   ► and use these devices and actually do some hardware testing.

00:51:00 ◼   ► But I feel like even then it's not the same

00:51:03 ◼   ► as living with the device.

00:51:04 ◼   ► And so that we're gonna see a lot of app revisions happen

00:51:08 ◼   ► soon from people, from developers who are like,

00:51:10 ◼   ► "Oh yeah, that totally doesn't work.

00:51:12 ◼   ► Let's try this instead."

00:51:14 ◼   ► But you're right, some apps felt really good

00:51:17 ◼   ► and some apps were kind of pointless.

00:51:20 ◼   ► But like I was using, I had a Twitter-ific notification

00:51:25 ◼   ► and I tapped on it and it opened the Twitter-ific app

00:51:27 ◼   ► and allowed me to send a reply using text, speech to text.

00:51:31 ◼   ► That was a pretty cool experience.

00:51:34 ◼   ► I have to say that was pretty cool.

00:51:36 ◼   ► Every now and then I have one of those experiences

00:51:38 ◼   ► that I am surprised at how well it works.

00:51:40 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:51:41 ◼   ► But one of the main problems with the Herparty apps

00:51:43 ◼   ► is the delays.

00:51:45 ◼   ► like sometimes you tap something or you try and open an app and you're just waiting.

00:51:49 ◼   ► Spin, spin, spin, spin.

00:51:50 ◼   ► I was trying to demo a workflow for Federico and I was basically making a video for him and

00:51:57 ◼   ► I was waiting like two minutes because I was recording it. I'm sitting there going,

00:52:02 ◼   ► "I'm so sorry buddy, like maybe in a minute." And I don't think this is the issue of developers

00:52:09 ◼   ► because they don't know a lot of this stuff and I'm sure there are things they can do to speed it

00:52:12 ◼   ► up, but because they haven't got the devices, there's nothing they can do.

00:52:16 ◼   ► But like the workflow app is kind of incredible, the things that it's able to do.

00:52:21 ◼   ► I don't know how it does them.

00:52:23 ◼   ► It's kind of like the iPhone app.

00:52:26 ◼   ► But yeah, there are some real issues with lag for the third-party apps.

00:52:33 ◼   ► Yeah, definitely.

00:52:34 ◼   ► I mean, 1.0, I mean, it's what we said about photos, and it's true for this.

00:52:39 ◼   ► I think this hardware is pretty good, but the software is—it's new, and they're taking

00:52:44 ◼   ► their best shot at it.

00:52:45 ◼   ► It doesn't mean, like, they should have waited.

00:52:47 ◼   ► I think at some point you have to get it out there and learn.

00:52:52 ◼   ► And the true test is that, how will Apple react to this learning process?

00:52:58 ◼   ► What comes next?

00:52:59 ◼   ► And given that we have WWDC coming up, I'm hoping that what we're going to see is some

00:53:04 ◼   ► thoughts about the direction that the Apple Watch is going, and I hope we get to see some

00:53:08 ◼   ► software revisions for Apple Watch now that it's out there and see Apple

00:53:11 ◼   ► readjusting and figuring out the right things to do for this product.

00:53:16 ◼   ► But it is cool and fun, and although we have criticisms about it, because

00:53:22 ◼   ► there's definitely work to be done, I'm enjoying it a lot.

00:53:26 ◼   ► I feel like there's so much to appreciate about it, even though there also is so much

00:53:33 ◼   ► potential and there's so many things that can be explored and changed and learned about

00:53:39 ◼   ► this product as we go. So that's—it's 1.0 in all those senses, right? It is the excitement

00:53:45 ◼   ► of the new and it truly is new and I love that feeling like this is weird and different.

00:53:52 ◼   ► It's not like what I'm used to. At the same time, 1.0 means what, you know, what most

00:53:56 ◼   ► people know that it means, which is there are bugs, things don't work right, some things

00:54:00 ◼   ► are going to have to be rethought. That's totally true.

00:54:02 ◼   ► - The things that I love about it,

00:54:04 ◼   ► I really, really love about it.

00:54:06 ◼   ► The things that annoy me really, really annoy me.

00:54:08 ◼   ► - That's Scream.

00:54:09 ◼   ► The screen is amazing.

00:54:12 ◼   ► Yeah, and the aluminum, nobody does aluminum like Apple.

00:54:15 ◼   ► It's amazing.

00:54:16 ◼   ► There's so many things to like about it.

00:54:17 ◼   ► Like I said, the hardware I feel like

00:54:18 ◼   ► is almost beyond reproach.

00:54:20 ◼   ► It is beautiful piece of hardware.

00:54:22 ◼   ► And then the software, yeah, it's got some great ideas

00:54:24 ◼   ► and some stuff that's like, oh, I see what you did there.

00:54:27 ◼   ► I love your ambition.

00:54:28 ◼   ► I'm not sure if it works, but I love that you tried it.

00:54:31 ◼   ► - So like I could just sit and look at that watch face

00:54:34 ◼   ► all day, which is something that I love,

00:54:37 ◼   ► but the problem is it goes off too quickly,

00:54:38 ◼   ► something that annoys me.

00:54:39 ◼   ► You know, so that's kind of how I am with this device,

00:54:42 ◼   ► is I really love it and it really annoys me,

00:54:44 ◼   ► but I really love it, but it really annoys me.

00:54:47 ◼   ► I feel like I keep going through this at the same time,

00:54:49 ◼   ► but I do feel like my love is stronger

00:54:52 ◼   ► than the things that annoy me.

00:54:53 ◼   ► I love more things about it

00:54:55 ◼   ► than there are things that annoy me.

00:54:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:54:58 ◼   ► That's the 1.0 experience right there.

00:55:01 ◼   ► It reminds me of the iPhone.

00:55:03 ◼   ► The original iPhone reminds me of that because the original iPhone frustrated me so much

00:55:06 ◼   ► because it was limited.

00:55:07 ◼   ► Why can't I copy and paste?

00:55:09 ◼   ► Why doesn't it do this?

00:55:10 ◼   ► Why can't I send picture messages?

00:55:12 ◼   ► Why can't I send things over Bluetooth?

00:55:14 ◼   ► There were all these things that it didn't do that really annoyed me, but there were

00:55:17 ◼   ► all these other things that it did that I can't believe that it could do.

00:55:20 ◼   ► Look, we've got questions.

00:55:22 ◼   ► Let's get into the questions, but before we do that, let me thank our second sponsor this

00:55:24 ◼   ► week and that is our friends at GoToMeeting by Citrix.

00:55:29 ◼   ► Take a moment.

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00:56:37 ◼   ► be like they're sitting in the room with you.

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00:57:18 ◼   ► thank you so much to Citrix and gotomeeting for supporting upgrade yay so uh first question

00:57:25 ◼   ► - Next question from Benjamin.

00:57:27 ◼   ► This is a crazy one.

00:57:28 ◼   ► Is there any way to view a reminders list

00:57:30 ◼   ► on the Apple watch?

00:57:31 ◼   ► - No.

00:57:33 ◼   ► - No, there is not.

00:57:34 ◼   ► You can add reminders.

00:57:35 ◼   ► - All of the things that Apple has

00:57:38 ◼   ► with their like ecosystem and syncing and apps

00:57:41 ◼   ► on all the devices.

00:57:42 ◼   ► And there's no reminders app on the Apple watch.

00:57:45 ◼   ► - Which kind of feels like if you use reminders,

00:57:48 ◼   ► it feels like the perfect device for reminders.

00:57:51 ◼   ► - I do use reminders.

00:57:52 ◼   ► I use reminders.

00:57:54 ◼   ► And I think the answer is, I believe there may be some apps like Things that sync with

00:58:01 ◼   ► Reminders and are on the Apple Watch.

00:58:06 ◼   ► So I think there may be some other apps that sync with the Reminders list that might display

00:58:12 ◼   ► it.

00:58:13 ◼   ► But the official Apple approach of the Reminders app just isn't there.

00:58:17 ◼   ► It's dumb.

00:58:18 ◼   ► - The most functionable part of Reminders on the Apple Watch does exist, which is being

00:58:23 ◼   ► able to add them but you cannot view them or check them off.

00:58:26 ◼   ► Or check them off, yeah.

00:58:27 ◼   ► Which is crazy.

00:58:28 ◼   ► Did you say functionable?

00:58:30 ◼   ► That's another word.

00:58:31 ◼   ► Is that a word?

00:58:32 ◼   ► You know me, Jason, I like to make up words.

00:58:35 ◼   ► Functionable is today's word of the day.

00:58:38 ◼   ► Okay good.

00:58:39 ◼   ► Ding.

00:58:40 ◼   ► This comes from Lucas.

00:58:42 ◼   ► Can I use Apple Pay on my Apple Watch when my iPhone does not support it?

00:58:46 ◼   ► I have an iPhone 5.

00:58:47 ◼   ► I believe you can?

00:58:49 ◼   ► Yes, you can.

00:58:51 ◼   ► I thought I'd heard this somewhere.

00:58:52 ◼   ► I think they set it on stage.

00:58:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, they have the secure element

00:58:55 ◼   ► and all of that in the watch.

00:58:56 ◼   ► So if you have an iPhone 5,

00:58:58 ◼   ► so you don't have the ability to do Apple Pay on your phone,

00:59:03 ◼   ► you can do it with the watch.

00:59:05 ◼   ► It's true.

00:59:05 ◼   ► That is absolutely the case, which is pretty cool.

00:59:08 ◼   ► - John has asked, "Is 42 millimeters a good size

00:59:12 ◼   ► or will Myke want an even bigger model

00:59:13 ◼   ► to be right about in the future?"

00:59:15 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:59:16 ◼   ► Good, that's good.

00:59:17 ◼   ► I wanted to do this 'cause I like this question

00:59:19 ◼   ► 'cause I wanna break it down into two parts.

00:59:20 ◼   ► Let's talk about the size of the watch.

00:59:22 ◼   ► I think the watch for me is the perfect size.

00:59:24 ◼   ► It is the same screen size as my Purple, effectively.

00:59:28 ◼   ► It is thick, but it's not too thick,

00:59:32 ◼   ► and I don't find it heavy, so it works for me perfectly.

00:59:37 ◼   ► I don't have any problems with it, size-wise.

00:59:41 ◼   ► What do you think?

00:59:42 ◼   ► You got a 42 there, right?

00:59:43 ◼   ► - I got a 42.

00:59:45 ◼   ► So I have worn a watch my entire adult life.

00:59:49 ◼   ► I mean, like, I take it off sometimes,

00:59:51 ◼   ► but pretty much 90 plus percent of the days

00:59:55 ◼   ► I have worn a watch at some point.

00:59:57 ◼   ► And so for me, the amazing thing about it

01:00:02 ◼   ► is it just feels like a watch.

01:00:03 ◼   ► My wife put it on for a little bit

01:00:04 ◼   ► and she was like, "Oh, it's so heavy."

01:00:05 ◼   ► I'm like, "Well, she doesn't wear a watch."

01:00:07 ◼   ► But if you're used to wearing a watch,

01:00:10 ◼   ► it just, it feels like a watch.

01:00:11 ◼   ► It's fine.

01:00:12 ◼   ► And it doesn't, it actually,

01:00:14 ◼   ► I was worried that it was gonna be, feel like super thick.

01:00:17 ◼   ► Like I was wearing a big, you know, brick on my wrist

01:00:19 ◼   ► and it doesn't feel thick at all.

01:00:21 ◼   ► And the screen size, yeah, I mean, it would be nice

01:00:25 ◼   ► if the screen was bigger, I suppose,

01:00:26 ◼   ► just in the sense that you'd have more screen real estate,

01:00:30 ◼   ► but it would not be nice in the sense

01:00:31 ◼   ► that it would be a larger thing.

01:00:33 ◼   ► And I feel like this is a good size for my wrist.

01:00:36 ◼   ► I think it's a good match.

01:00:37 ◼   ► And I don't, you know, if I want a larger screen,

01:00:39 ◼   ► I've got my iPhone for that.

01:00:40 ◼   ► So I feel like it's a good size.

01:00:42 ◼   ► Everybody's, what we've learned is everybody's wrist

01:00:46 ◼   ► is different, like the shape of the wrist,

01:00:50 ◼   ► the bone structure and the size.

01:00:52 ◼   ► There's so many different aspects,

01:00:57 ◼   ► there's variation in the human body.

01:00:58 ◼   ► So that's something that a lot of us geeks

01:01:01 ◼   ► haven't really thought about.

01:01:02 ◼   ► Is like I was up at Twit and I was talking to somebody

01:01:05 ◼   ► about what they were thinking

01:01:06 ◼   ► and they showed me their wrist

01:01:07 ◼   ► and their wrist is like this totally different shape

01:01:10 ◼   ► than mine and I thought,

01:01:13 ◼   ► I can't tell you what to do here

01:01:14 ◼   ► because I don't know how this thing is gonna fit on you.

01:01:17 ◼   ► And in fact, I put the small sport band on.

01:01:20 ◼   ► I'm using the small band, not the big band,

01:01:21 ◼   ► which I had no idea,

01:01:23 ◼   ► but I'm using the small band instead and it fits better.

01:01:27 ◼   ► So I don't know.

01:01:29 ◼   ► I feel like 42 millimeters is very nice.

01:01:32 ◼   ► I feel like that's a good contrast.

01:01:34 ◼   ► I think the real question is,

01:01:36 ◼   ► well, Apple try to keep making it smaller and smaller,

01:01:39 ◼   ► but 42 seems to fit really well on my wrist.

01:01:43 ◼   ► And, you know, generally, the human body doesn't change that fast.

01:01:47 ◼   ► It's going to be thousands of years before we can adapt our bodies to technology through,

01:01:55 ◼   ► you know, through evolution.

01:01:56 ◼   ► So we're stuck with what we got.

01:01:59 ◼   ► And I think the 42 millimeter fits on a lot of wrists, and they'll do a smaller version

01:02:03 ◼   ► for smaller wrists.

01:02:04 ◼   ► And I think it's good.

01:02:05 ◼   ► So I don't think we're going to get a "Myke was right" moment with the Apple Watch, but

01:02:08 ◼   ► I could be wrong.

01:02:09 ◼   ► >> No, I don't need the physical size of the watch to be bigger.

01:02:11 ◼   ► I don't want it to be bigger at the moment.

01:02:13 ◼   ► Like I can't think of, it's different to the phone.

01:02:15 ◼   ► Like my, I feel like with the phone,

01:02:18 ◼   ► you just put it in a pocket for a lot of the time,

01:02:21 ◼   ► but I'm not gonna put my watch in a pocket,

01:02:22 ◼   ► and I'm not looking for a pocket watch.

01:02:24 ◼   ► I could have the screen get bigger,

01:02:26 ◼   ► that you know, that would be nice.

01:02:27 ◼   ► Just over time, just inch further and further

01:02:31 ◼   ► to the edges of the display, you know, would be great.

01:02:34 ◼   ► - Oh well that's true, but I don't want the watch

01:02:36 ◼   ► to be bigger.

01:02:37 ◼   ► - No, don't need that.

01:02:38 ◼   ► Don't want it, don't need it.

01:02:39 ◼   ► - Nope.

01:02:40 ◼   ► Okie dokie, where are we now?

01:02:46 ◼   ► So Matt, does activating Siri on the watch pause audio playback on your iPhone?

01:02:50 ◼   ► No it does not.

01:02:51 ◼   ► It does not.

01:02:52 ◼   ► And it is the first time you do it, you don't know what the hell is happening.

01:02:55 ◼   ► I was like, uh, what?

01:02:57 ◼   ► Well it doesn't because it makes sense really, they are independent devices.

01:03:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I was listening to a podcast on headphones and needed to say something to my watch and

01:03:07 ◼   ► it was fine.

01:03:09 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, it kind of makes sense, kind of is also a bit confusing.

01:03:18 ◼   ► This is from... I don't even... I don't even...

01:03:23 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I don't even know... I'm not gonna say that.

01:03:28 ◼   ► It's a spoiler actually for a sitcom. So we don't want to give that away.

01:03:34 ◼   ► Robert is also a fake name. So, from a fake person.

01:03:38 ◼   ► I know Apple Pay resets if you take the Apple Watch off.

01:03:41 ◼   ► What if it slides up or down on your wrist, you have to keep it snug?

01:03:44 ◼   ► So the idea being you have to like put in a pin or something sometimes?

01:03:49 ◼   ► Explain that a little bit because I don't know about that so much.

01:03:52 ◼   ► Because I don't have Apple Pay, so.

01:03:56 ◼   ► Right, so well, all the concept of the watch being locked and unlocked, they want you to

01:04:00 ◼   ► put a code into it.

01:04:02 ◼   ► I discovered overnight after I wrote my story that actually once you put the watch on your

01:04:08 ◼   ► wrist if you if you touch ID unlock your phone that unlocks you don't even have to put the

01:04:13 ◼   ► code in on the watch that unlocks the watch the whole idea here is as long as it can verify

01:04:18 ◼   ► somehow that it's you and then you keep the watch on then it's unlocked the watch stays

01:04:23 ◼   ► unlocked the entire time you continue to wear it that's cool I have loosened it over time

01:04:31 ◼   ► I wore it really snug the first day because I was afraid of like it's not gonna it's not

01:04:35 ◼   ► gonna it's not gonna work it's gonna keep coming unpaired I've loosened it up

01:04:40 ◼   ► now and I think I think it still works fine I I do wonder if the heart rate

01:04:45 ◼   ► monitor requires a snug fit but the actual like lock concept doesn't I mean

01:04:52 ◼   ► I suppose if it was like super loose it might be a problem but I've got it a

01:04:55 ◼   ► comfortable tightness it's not super tight and it's it slides a little bit

01:05:01 ◼   ► but not a lot and it works fine so I think there's some slack in it I think

01:05:04 ◼   ► think that you could probably over loosen it to the point where it would want to lock.

01:05:08 ◼   ► But generally they seem to have been pretty intelligent about making it kind of, you know,

01:05:14 ◼   ► do the math about how it knows that it's still the same person wearing it, which I like.

01:05:19 ◼   ► I really like that idea that it's a personal device and as long as it knows that it's still

01:05:24 ◼   ► on your person, it knows who you are, it can trust. A phone can't trust, right? A phone

01:05:28 ◼   ► can't trust that it's still in the hands of the person who owns it. But this watch can

01:05:32 ◼   ► tell when it gets taken off.

01:05:34 ◼   ► And until that moment, it knows that it's on that person

01:05:37 ◼   ► that who put it on and authenticated.

01:05:41 ◼   ► That's pretty cool.

01:05:43 ◼   ► I like that.

01:05:43 ◼   ► Also, Myke, did you notice that,

01:05:45 ◼   ► related to both of these last two questions,

01:05:48 ◼   ► when you're wearing the watch and you get a notification,

01:05:52 ◼   ► it doesn't go to your phone and your watch.

01:05:54 ◼   ► It just goes to your watch.

01:05:56 ◼   ► The phone doesn't make the notification

01:05:58 ◼   ► because the phone knows you're wearing the watch,

01:06:02 ◼   ► which I kind of love. I kind of love that idea that it knows

01:06:05 ◼   ► that it's redundant to ping,

01:06:07 ◼   ► because it's not like you've got the watch in one place

01:06:09 ◼   ► and the phone in the other and you happen to be near the phone.

01:06:11 ◼   ► It's not like an iPad and an iPhone

01:06:13 ◼   ► where it needs to let you know in both places

01:06:15 ◼   ► because it doesn't know where you are.

01:06:16 ◼   ► It knows that you've got the watch on,

01:06:18 ◼   ► so it knows it should just notify you on your wrist.

01:06:21 ◼   ► I think that's kind of cool.

01:06:22 ◼   ► -I wish the Mac knew, though.

01:06:24 ◼   ► -Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do. I do, too.

01:06:27 ◼   ► I hope that there's some more proximity stuff

01:06:30 ◼   ► coming at some point.

01:06:31 ◼   ► I would love my Mac to know that I'm wearing the watch and to not worry about bugging me

01:06:35 ◼   ► about things because I've got my watch on.

01:06:37 ◼   ► That would be awesome.

01:06:39 ◼   ► Maybe in OS X Death Valley.

01:06:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:42 ◼   ► Yeah, that would be nice.

01:06:45 ◼   ► I would like the Mac to be more aware of the watch in some way because I feel like it works

01:06:53 ◼   ► a bit better with the iPhone and the Mac, right?

01:06:56 ◼   ► Like if I'm looking at something on my iPhone or I'm looking at something on my Mac, they

01:07:00 ◼   ► don't, they don't, one bot doesn't buzz like with one, the other's being used but I don't

01:07:06 ◼   ► know. I do not know. Okay, so from Mark, is there a way to get watch notifications only

01:07:12 ◼   ► for messages from a specific person? I don't think there is.

01:07:16 ◼   ► - No, wouldn't that be nice? I feel like that's gotta be, like bringing the concept of the

01:07:23 ◼   ► VIP, the email VIP to your contacts to have a list of people that you can set.

01:07:30 ◼   ► I think granular notifications would be a nice feature.

01:07:32 ◼   ► I can see why it wouldn't be there at first because it's kind of a power user feature,

01:07:36 ◼   ► but it would be nice to have more of that, you know, more granular settings for things

01:07:43 ◼   ► like saying these people are the ones that I want you to let through.

01:07:47 ◼   ► >>ANDREW it's like I just want to be notified about tweetbot DMs.

01:07:52 ◼   ► I don't want anything else from Tweetbot, but you can't do that.

01:07:56 ◼   ► Huh, interesting.

01:07:57 ◼   ► You know, well because if I want them on my iPhone...

01:08:01 ◼   ► Oh yeah, well that's true.

01:08:02 ◼   ► You know, I want to be able to separate the two.

01:08:04 ◼   ► I mean, notification management is just a big thing,

01:08:06 ◼   ► and I genuinely feel like it's going to be one of the big things of iOS 9.

01:08:10 ◼   ► I think it has to be.

01:08:11 ◼   ► It just makes sense. It becomes low-hanging fruit now.

01:08:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:15 ◼   ► Schemen in the chat room, how's the battery life been? Jason?

01:08:18 ◼   ► Great for me. I used it all day yesterday and at one in the morning I still was at like 50%.

01:08:26 ◼   ► I haven't been that good but it has been really good for me too. So for example I woke up at like

01:08:32 ◼   ► um I yesterday maybe was awake from like eight in the morning I went to sleep at

01:08:38 ◼   ► um about oh no I went to sleep about three in the morning so I had a really really long day

01:08:43 ◼   ► and it was 10% when I went to bed. Like that is great for me. That's as long as a day for me

01:08:48 ◼   ► can go and it went the whole day and I'm playing with it you know I'm playing

01:08:53 ◼   ► with it and I'm using it properly I'm the battery it's easily getting through

01:08:58 ◼   ► any day for me at the moment so I'm more than happy with it because charging it

01:09:02 ◼   ► at night is like whatever it's totally fine we have Benjamin and Jen have you

01:09:14 ◼   ► used maps for driving directions is there lag to taps for turning left or

01:09:18 ◼   ► Oh right, tap you soon enough.

01:09:19 ◼   ► Have you used it for driving directions?

01:09:21 ◼   ► - I haven't.

01:09:22 ◼   ► - I've used it for walking directions.

01:09:24 ◼   ► - And?

01:09:25 ◼   ► - The taps are good, but I did find them to not,

01:09:28 ◼   ► in all cases, not to necessarily be soon enough.

01:09:33 ◼   ► - Huh.

01:09:34 ◼   ► - So my feeling is, I don't,

01:09:36 ◼   ► it's the same as I never use turn-by-turn directions.

01:09:40 ◼   ► I just look at the map,

01:09:41 ◼   ► and you can see the map at all times on your watch,

01:09:43 ◼   ► which is perfectly good for what I need.

01:09:46 ◼   ► You can basically see the route,

01:09:48 ◼   ► you can zoom in and out of it.

01:09:49 ◼   ► That's perfect for me, that's all I want.

01:09:51 ◼   ► I don't need the taps or whatever when I'm walking.

01:09:55 ◼   ► - Sometimes, I can see the value in the taps.

01:09:58 ◼   ► If I'm in a strange location and I'm walking down the street

01:10:03 ◼   ► just having that little extra note of like,

01:10:05 ◼   ► yeah, go that way is a...

01:10:08 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to trying it.

01:10:09 ◼   ► I've been meaning to try it

01:10:10 ◼   ► and I just haven't had a chance to try it yet.

01:10:13 ◼   ► So, soon.

01:10:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm just very happy.

01:10:21 ◼   ► Maps was one of those things that walking around I just wasn't really looking forward

01:10:24 ◼   ► to it.

01:10:25 ◼   ► You know when you think, you know the device is coming so you think about it into the future.

01:10:30 ◼   ► That was one of the things like, "Oh I can't wait until I have maps on my wrist."

01:10:33 ◼   ► And I'm very happy that I do.

01:10:35 ◼   ► Can the, this is from Josh, "Can the Apple Watch display notifications from apps without

01:10:39 ◼   ► WatchKit extensions?"

01:10:41 ◼   ► Yes they can.

01:10:43 ◼   ► You see all of your notifications that you have on your phone, but if an app, if there

01:10:48 ◼   ► is a WatchKit app, or whatever you would call it, or a glance or something, it's going to

01:10:52 ◼   ► be way better with what it can do.

01:10:57 ◼   ► But if a developer has taken into account notifications on iOS and they use the buttons

01:11:05 ◼   ► or whatever, what are they called?

01:11:09 ◼   ► You know what I'm talking about.

01:11:10 ◼   ► if you get a mailbox one and you can archive it.

01:11:13 ◼   ► Like they're the new actionable notifications.

01:11:16 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:11:17 ◼   ► - On iOS.

01:11:18 ◼   ► - Buttons.

01:11:18 ◼   ► - They translate over to the Apple Watch and that's great.

01:11:21 ◼   ► Like for me there's no mailbox app, but I don't need it.

01:11:24 ◼   ► - Right.

01:11:25 ◼   ► - I just need to say archive or set for tomorrow

01:11:28 ◼   ► when an email comes in and I can do that, which is great.

01:11:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, in the Apple Watch app there's a,

01:11:31 ◼   ► under notifications there's a list of all of your apps

01:11:34 ◼   ► and it says mirror iPhone alerts from,

01:11:36 ◼   ► and then you can turn those on and off per app.

01:11:38 ◼   ► And then those are just the standard iPhone notifications

01:11:41 ◼   ► getting mirrored to your watch on an app by app basis.

01:11:44 ◼   ► So I turn most of those off.

01:11:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I have most off and I'm turning more off.

01:11:52 ◼   ► - Yeah. - There we go.

01:11:53 ◼   ► From Chris, do you think Apple would ever do

01:11:57 ◼   ► a C version of the watch like the iPhone,

01:12:00 ◼   ► a lower tiered watch made of colorful plastic?

01:12:03 ◼   ► I don't think so.

01:12:04 ◼   ► I don't see it.

01:12:04 ◼   ► I mean, you can never say for sure,

01:12:06 ◼   ► but I think the sport is the low end

01:12:08 ◼   ► and maybe in the future the sport might get a bit cheaper

01:12:11 ◼   ► and there might be a bigger gap.

01:12:13 ◼   ► But this thing has already got color all over it.

01:12:15 ◼   ► Like it already feels like that line to me.

01:12:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know.

01:12:20 ◼   ► I mean, would Apple make a plastic watch eventually?

01:12:22 ◼   ► Maybe just, but I think they want to make their intentions

01:12:26 ◼   ► clear that this is, they want people to view this product

01:12:29 ◼   ► as a high quality product,

01:12:31 ◼   ► which is why there's no plastic watch.

01:12:33 ◼   ► 'Cause they could have done that, right?

01:12:33 ◼   ► They could have said the sport is a polycarbonate,

01:12:36 ◼   ► you know, sports watch and it's $1.99 or something like that, or $2.99.

01:12:42 ◼   ► And they didn't.

01:12:44 ◼   ► So I think that could happen, but my guess would be that, yeah, it would be the Apple

01:12:48 ◼   ► Watch Sport would just get revised downward and maybe become plastic-y.

01:12:53 ◼   ► But it would, you know, it could happen, but I wouldn't bet on it.

01:13:01 ◼   ► And then we have one last question from Tom.

01:13:04 ◼   ► Can you sync or transfer podcasts to your Apple Watch like you can music?

01:13:09 ◼   ► I think the answer is no.

01:13:11 ◼   ► Yeah, so I use Overcast and Overcast works.

01:13:13 ◼   ► Yeah, but I think he's saying like transfer music, you can load music onto the watch and

01:13:19 ◼   ► then like go running with just the watch and Bluetooth headphones and I think for that

01:13:23 ◼   ► you have to have, it's only going to do music.

01:13:29 ◼   ► I think it's not, I think podcasts are not available.

01:13:32 ◼   ► - The only way you can do it is by going into iTunes

01:13:34 ◼   ► and changing the metadata,

01:13:35 ◼   ► but it's not gonna remember your sync position.

01:13:37 ◼   ► But in theory, you could do it.

01:13:38 ◼   ► You could tell iTunes it's a song, right?

01:13:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, you tell a pod, that a podcast is a song

01:13:42 ◼   ► and then put it in a sync playlist and do it that way.

01:13:46 ◼   ► I did realize that I was looking,

01:13:48 ◼   ► I was looking in an Apple Watch under general, about,

01:13:53 ◼   ► and it had capacity 6.2 gigabytes available, 5.7 gigabytes.

01:13:58 ◼   ► And I laughed because that's like way more

01:14:00 ◼   ► than the original iPod.

01:14:04 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:14:05 ◼   ► - So it's a thousand songs on your wrist.

01:14:07 ◼   ► And I don't even want to put songs on it

01:14:09 ◼   ► 'cause I don't own a pair of Bluetooth headphones.

01:14:11 ◼   ► So I actually, there's kind of no point,

01:14:15 ◼   ► but that just is really funny that this is,

01:14:19 ◼   ► it is an iPod on top of everything else.

01:14:22 ◼   ► - It's funny to me that there are settings on the watch

01:14:29 ◼   ► of any kind. Yeah, I mean, other than that, that, that glance that lets you put it in

01:14:34 ◼   ► airplane mode and turn off alarms and do not disturb and find your iPhone, that's, that's

01:14:39 ◼   ► sort of like the little simple settings. But, but beyond that, your iPhone is for that,

01:14:44 ◼   ► I guess. And we do have, so that's kind of the end of Apple Watch. We're going to be

01:14:49 ◼   ► talking about the Apple Watch a lot. Oh, man. I think it's good to keep it there for today.

01:14:53 ◼   ► But we do have a couple of regular Ask Upgrade questions.

01:14:58 ◼   ► So do you want to thank our Ask Upgrade sponsor for this week?

01:15:02 ◼   ► Yes.

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01:16:13 ◼   ► an Apple Watch was mail bagging related. You drew a little mail bagging

01:16:17 ◼   ► like a doodle on the little Apple watch thing.

01:16:21 ◼   ► - Almost certainly did.

01:16:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was a special moment.

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01:17:18 ◼   ► I don't think we make enough of a deal of that.

01:17:20 ◼   ► Ten percent off of account lifetime is awesome.

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01:17:24 ◼   ► You know, some of the deals we read are very much like, you know, you get a percentage

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01:17:30 ◼   ► And if you're already a customer, some of those deals don't work.

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01:17:39 ◼   ► Don't get a lot of that.

01:17:41 ◼   ► that we have it. So should we take the show out of a couple of our favorites, a couple

01:17:47 ◼   ► of our upgrades?

01:17:48 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so.

01:17:49 ◼   ► Eric, glad you were able to bring up the Samantha Cristoforetti tweet on Upgrade. Can you remind

01:17:56 ◼   ► people?

01:17:57 ◼   ► This is the astronaut who took a picture of herself wearing a Star Trek Voyager costume,

01:18:01 ◼   ► talking about how they were delivering the first zero-gravity espresso machine to the

01:18:08 ◼   ► International Space Station, and she's Italian, so she especially, like Federica, wants her

01:18:12 ◼   ► espresso.

01:18:13 ◼   ► But upgrading, and Eric points out, she's actually quoting, that tweet quotes an actual

01:18:17 ◼   ► line from an actual episode of Star Trek Voyager.

01:18:21 ◼   ► So it's a high level of Star Trek Voyager analysis.

01:18:24 ◼   ► I'm sure somewhere, Brianna Wu is very excited to hear this, because she loves Captain Janeway

01:18:28 ◼   ► and she loves Star Trek Voyager.

01:18:30 ◼   ► But I just love that there was a Star Trek outfit.

01:18:32 ◼   ► Some people will argue that because it's a Star Trek Voyager outfit that has extra meaning

01:18:37 ◼   ► to the astronaut, perhaps it does, to the, you know, what the best Star Trek show is,

01:18:42 ◼   ► perhaps it doesn't. But I think it still is a super cool geek moment and I appreciate

01:18:50 ◼   ► Upgrady and Eric for pointing out that that's, even the tweet is a Star Trek Voyager reference,

01:18:56 ◼   ► not just the uniform.

01:18:57 ◼   ► Yeah, so that's pretty cool.

01:19:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:01 ◼   ► That's lost on me, but I can imagine for people that like that kind of thing. Hooray.

01:19:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I mean, the idea that there's a real astronaut in real outer space who's

01:19:09 ◼   ► wearing a Star Trek uniform, that's funny.

01:19:12 ◼   ► That is pretty funny.

01:19:14 ◼   ► That's pretty cool.

01:19:15 ◼   ► Yeah, there is apparently an episode of "Star Trek Voyager" where they really get upset

01:19:18 ◼   ► about not having coffee.

01:19:21 ◼   ► - And then from, wow, an upgradician.

01:19:24 ◼   ► - Yes, Bobby--

01:19:25 ◼   ► - I thought we were finished with this.

01:19:28 ◼   ► - Bobby has decided to decree that he is himself an upgradician.

01:19:33 ◼   ► So okay, Bobby.

01:19:34 ◼   ► whatever you need sir. I was wondering for many years why Apple does not

01:19:39 ◼   ► provide any method to charge an iOS device from another iOS device. Like for

01:19:44 ◼   ► example maybe your, you know as Bobby says, your wife's phone is at 10% and you

01:19:49 ◼   ► want to just provide a bit of extra juice but can't. Jason, what do you think

01:19:53 ◼   ► about this? My guess is that there's something about how lightning works that

01:20:01 ◼   ► I mean, these phones don't—they can power, like, very, very low-power devices, but I'm

01:20:09 ◼   ► not sure that's the same as charging another device, right?

01:20:12 ◼   ► You can plug in some USB microphones to them through an adapter, and they'll work, and

01:20:16 ◼   ► others, they won't.

01:20:19 ◼   ► So my guess is that they're just not made to put out the level of power that a battery

01:20:24 ◼   ► pack would, you know, essentially do.

01:20:28 ◼   ► But I think it's a really clever idea.

01:20:30 ◼   ► It would be nice.

01:20:31 ◼   ► be nice if you could plug your iPad into your iPhone if you were really desperate

01:20:34 ◼   ► to keep your iPhone alive. But I am not an electrical engineer but my

01:20:39 ◼   ► guess is that the amount of power that's being able to be sent across a lightning

01:20:43 ◼   ► cable from an iPhone or an iPad is not big enough for it to be, you know,

01:20:49 ◼   ► to make a big difference. It's a nice idea though.

01:20:53 ◼   ► So then the last one today, Justin also mentioned, will there be an upgrade

01:20:59 ◼   ► t-shirt? I mean we have a clockwise t-shirt now, will there be an upgrade t-shirt?

01:21:02 ◼   ► Will there, Myke? There most certainly can be. There's nothing to stop us doing one

01:21:08 ◼   ► except for a couple of things. We need to design, but we can do that. And then we

01:21:15 ◼   ► just need to decide, do we want to give people more t-shirts right now? Because

01:21:19 ◼   ► it's, you know, it's one of those things we can decide, do we want to do this

01:21:22 ◼   ► before WWDC. If we do, we have limited time. And if we want to do that, then there's already

01:21:29 ◼   ► a million t-shirts out right now. Do people want to be spending more on t-shirts? I haven't

01:21:32 ◼   ► got an answer, Jason, is my feeling on this. I don't know what to think about it.

01:21:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't either. I would love... There will, I think, definitely be an upgraded t-shirt.

01:21:42 ◼   ► I think the question is when. I definitely... I hear from people who say, "I have too many

01:21:45 ◼   ► t-shirts." I hear that. There are limited things that we can do. T-shirts are fairly

01:21:51 ◼   ► easily shippable and easily makeable and it is truly in the technology industry tradition

01:21:55 ◼   ► to make a t-shirt.

01:21:56 ◼   ► And we always have stickers, we have stickers in our relay store and you can grab those

01:21:59 ◼   ► at any time.

01:22:01 ◼   ► I just don't know if, one if we need to do another t-shirt and two if it needs to be

01:22:06 ◼   ► right now.

01:22:07 ◼   ► I mean I would love, I want there to be an upgrade t-shirt, but I don't know, I don't

01:22:14 ◼   ► know.

01:22:15 ◼   ► You get it right?

01:22:16 ◼   ► I'm just not sure if we need to have,

01:22:19 ◼   ► I don't know if I need another t-shirt right now,

01:22:22 ◼   ► though I'm buying them all, that's the thing,

01:22:24 ◼   ► I'll buy them all.

01:22:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:22:25 ◼   ► We have an isometric t-shirt, I bought that.

01:22:26 ◼   ► Clockwise, I bought that.

01:22:28 ◼   ► Connected, I bought that.

01:22:29 ◼   ► And I would like there to be one,

01:22:30 ◼   ► I just don't know if people want it.

01:22:33 ◼   ► And also, like these things,

01:22:34 ◼   ► let me just be completely upfront with it,

01:22:36 ◼   ► we wanna make as much money as we can

01:22:38 ◼   ► when we do something like this.

01:22:40 ◼   ► And I personally don't know if it's right to do it now

01:22:42 ◼   ► because people want it for WWDC,

01:22:44 ◼   ► or do it later when it's not t-shirt Armageddon.

01:22:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, plus we have to have a good idea.

01:22:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, well, we don't,

01:22:52 ◼   ► we just get Frank to do it and, you know,

01:22:54 ◼   ► he'll just make us a great t-shirt

01:22:55 ◼   ► because that's what he does.

01:22:57 ◼   ► So we don't even need to worry about the idea,

01:22:59 ◼   ► but it's just the timing, that's all it is.

01:23:03 ◼   ► - So, Justin, this is your answer is,

01:23:05 ◼   ► we think there will be one sometime,

01:23:07 ◼   ► we don't know when it will be, it might not be now.

01:23:10 ◼   ► - I say there definitely will be one.

01:23:11 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:23:12 ◼   ► But now it's just a case of timing.

01:23:16 ◼   ► Because if we wanna do it before WWDC,

01:23:18 ◼   ► it needs to be soon.

01:23:21 ◼   ► I mean, I've thought about things like hoodies

01:23:23 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

01:23:25 ◼   ► And I quite like the idea,

01:23:27 ◼   ► in case you might hate me for saying this,

01:23:28 ◼   ► I quite like the idea of an analog hoodie.

01:23:30 ◼   ► Because I feel like it, you know,

01:23:34 ◼   ► wrapped up in feelings.

01:23:36 ◼   ► - Hoodie is my uniform too.

01:23:37 ◼   ► I would love an upgrade hoodie.

01:23:39 ◼   ► That's a great idea.

01:23:40 ◼   ► Maybe we should do that.

01:23:41 ◼   ► then people are gonna be really angry.

01:23:42 ◼   ► They're like, "I don't wear hoodies."

01:23:44 ◼   ► Somebody's always, you know,

01:23:46 ◼   ► there are people about the Clockwise T-shirt

01:23:47 ◼   ► who are just saying, "I don't wanna wear a yellow T-shirt."

01:23:50 ◼   ► It's like, well, okay.

01:23:50 ◼   ► Some people don't wanna wear a gray T-shirt.

01:23:52 ◼   ► So, you know, some people don't wanna wear a black T-shirt

01:23:56 ◼   ► and other people do.

01:23:57 ◼   ► So it's difficult because everybody's got opinions,

01:23:59 ◼   ► but we'll work on it.

01:24:01 ◼   ► - Yeah. - We'll do something.

01:24:02 ◼   ► There'll be something sometime.

01:24:04 ◼   ► It may not be before WWDC.

01:24:06 ◼   ► I feel like we're at the, you know,

01:24:09 ◼   ► we're at peak T-shirt right now.

01:24:10 ◼   ► I was working on that clockwise t-shirt design for ages,

01:24:14 ◼   ► and we finally pulled the trigger on that one, I think.

01:24:17 ◼   ► We'll talk about it.

01:24:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, maybe we could do trousers.

01:24:21 ◼   ► 'Cause everyone takes care of the top half.

01:24:24 ◼   ► No one's looking after the bottom half.

01:24:25 ◼   ► - I think that should be a Bonanza special.

01:24:27 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:24:30 ◼   ► - Excellent, right, I think that about wraps up

01:24:31 ◼   ► this week's episode of Upgrade.

01:24:33 ◼   ► If you wanna catch our show notes this week,

01:24:34 ◼   ► don't forget to check in your app of choice

01:24:36 ◼   ► go to relay.fm/upgrades/34. Thanks again to our sponsors this week, the great people

01:24:43 ◼   ► at GoToMeeting from Citrix, also Hover and MailRoute of course. You'll find us online,

01:24:49 ◼   ► there's a couple of ways you can do that. We're at @jsnell, J S N E double L is where

01:24:54 ◼   ► you'll find Jason and I am at @imike, I M Y K E and if you want to find Jason's great

01:25:00 ◼   ► writing, he is over at sixcolors.com. We'll be back next time with another episode of

01:25:06 ◼   ► upgrade. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:25:08 ◼   ► Goodbye, Mark Hurley.

01:25:10 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:25:13 ◼   ► [ Music ]