0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 34.
0:00:12Today's episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Hover, simplified domain management,
0:00:16MailRoute, a secure hosted email service for protection from viruses and spam, and GoToMeeting.
0:00:21Make it easy to meet with your team whenever you need to, wherever you are.
0:00:25My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined as always by the one and only Mr. Jason Snell.
0:00:30Hi Myke, it's good to have you back.
0:00:32Thank you sir, I keep forgetting which shows I'm on and which shows I'm not.
0:00:36So yes, I wasn't on last week's episode and I really enjoyed listening to the show.
0:00:41I like Upgrade, I think it's a good show, so it's always nice when I can hear it
0:00:46without it being ruined by me having to listen to myself.
0:00:49So it was a good show, you both, you and Steven were very kind about
0:00:54my extremely nerdy hobby, so thank you for that.
0:00:57Yeah, we dove into the pen world there briefly, and then we came right back out. But like
0:01:04I said, I love people who are enthusiastic, and that was really fun to... Even though
0:01:08I literally had no idea what you guys were talking about on The Pen Addict, it was fun
0:01:12to listen and hear your enthusiasm, and that was all awesome. But it's good to have you
0:01:17back. We're in this weird period now where we've got a lot of travel and stuff going
0:01:20on and you know it's good to it's good to be back to normal here. Dan and I will be
0:01:25back on clockwise together this week for the first time and I think we've we've only been
0:01:29on like one show out of the last five together so we're you know it's all kind of settling
0:01:35back it back into normalcy even though I'm about to take a trip for a few days again
0:01:40I'm getting tired of this travel but this is the last big trip for a while so that's
0:01:43good because I like to I'm gonna settle back and wait for people to come to San Francisco
0:01:47for WWDC. Yeah that's my next that's my next trip I'm taking a very short
0:01:53weekend break to somewhere in England so that doesn't really count for me I think but
0:01:58my next big trip is gonna be WWDC which is not far away it's like seven weeks or
0:02:03something? Something like that yeah yeah it's it's the second week in June so
0:02:08we've got a jump through May and but it's close six or seven weeks yeah. So I'm
0:02:12wishing May away already. So we do have some follow up and out today.
0:02:19We do. Last week we talked about Apple cloud services. Nick, listener Nick,
0:02:27said I mentioned Microsoft when I was talking about Apple sort of nickeling and
0:02:30diming people for cloud services and not bundling things together. And he points out quite rightly,
0:02:36I didn't really mean to say, I meant sort of like it reminded me of old Microsoft. He's right,
0:02:41I actually have Office 365, and it does include a terabyte of OneDrive and 60 Skype minutes
0:02:46a month and a whole bunch of other stuff that they bundle in, like Microsoft Office. So,
0:02:53you know, but I didn't... I sort of meant what we think of as Microsoft, not Satya Nadella's
0:02:58brave new Microsoft, but I appreciate that bit of feedback. And it's true, that is a
0:03:02great example of Microsoft taking a whole bunch of its services and just bundling them
0:03:06together and this is what you get for this price. Whereas Apple, I've got, you know,
0:03:10I've got iTunes match over here, and I've got iCloud Drive, you know, data over on this
0:03:17side and I've got Beats over here and it would be cool if there was some sort of like super
0:03:22platinum magic Apple plan that contained everything that I could buy and just not worry about
0:03:27it. And maybe that would be a, you know, a good deal too, but Apple would get their money
0:03:31and I would get the simplicity of just sort of being on the Apple Gold plan or whatever.
0:03:36>> Talking about Microsoft, it's built this week. You gonna be watching along?
0:03:41>> Nope. >> You're not interested? Don't you write for
0:03:45a Windows website? I'm kidding. >> Boy, if I tried to act like I knew what
0:03:50I was talking about about Windows, they would run me out on a rail. I'm always interested
0:03:55to see, but I'm gonna take this one secondhand. I'm gonna take this one from the people who
0:03:59who are analyzing it and see what they say.
0:04:02Honestly, I've just been so overwhelmed with stuff
0:04:04with finishing my photos book and the Apple Watch.
0:04:08Did you know the Apple Watch came out?
0:04:09That happened.
0:04:10And all this travel and there's just so much going on that,
0:04:15and actually as we're recording this,
0:04:16Apple's financial results are happening later today.
0:04:18Those, you know, we'll get some,
0:04:20this is Tim on the phone, we'll get some more color.
0:04:23All that good stuff.
0:04:25Gene Munster trying to find out if there's a new Apple TV
0:04:27by asking, you know, riddles. All that good stuff. So there's a lot going on. So Microsoft
0:04:32Build, I'm going to let -- I'm looking forward to the coverage of that because I think what
0:04:35Microsoft is doing these days is fascinating. But I don't have the brain power to devote
0:04:41to it, honestly.
0:04:42I'm going to keep my eye on it. I'm on a call for some of the time that the conference is
0:04:47-- like the presentation will be happening. But I do plan to watch it because, I mean,
0:04:53last couple of big keynotes have been very interesting. Yeah, maybe there'll be
0:04:59some more holograms. I expect there to be more hologram stuff because build last
0:05:04year was kind of like Nadella's coming out party, like he really set his vision
0:05:09of the future I think if I'm remembering it correctly. So I'm excited to see more
0:05:15about what what they're up to because I think and I do genuinely believe this I
0:05:20said this after I can't remember what the purpose of that HoloLens
0:05:24presentation was I don't think it was billed. No it was a special event I
0:05:29think of Microsoft you know Windows 10 etc. Yes it was the Windows 10 event
0:05:35wasn't it yep so like I said it then and I kind of stand by I think Microsoft are
0:05:40one of them one of the more interesting companies to watch right now because
0:05:44they're kind of they're doing some interesting stuff they're trying some
0:05:48new stuff, as well as being stick in the mud, so there are other things.
0:05:52So I'm excited to see what they're doing this week.
0:05:56Cool.
0:05:57Adam wrote in, listener Adam, and this is a little bit of an Ask upgrade, but it is
0:06:03tied into talking about photos, which we've been talking about.
0:06:07What's the best way for a couple to manage their photos together, preferably using photos
0:06:11for Mac?
0:06:12And unfortunately, the best way is the only way right now, which is everybody needs to
0:06:16use the same iCloud account.
0:06:17And this is one of these problems, and I think it's just owing to the fact that it's the
0:06:20first version.
0:06:21And we saw this with, it took Apple a while to get the family sharing link to ID thing
0:06:27even to exist.
0:06:29And this is a brand new product, iCloud Photo Library, so I feel like they're still working
0:06:33out the kinks.
0:06:35That may be an understatement.
0:06:37So I feel like right now, if you want to have the same photos on all your devices between
0:06:44a couple, you actually can only do it by being logged into the same iCloud account.
0:06:50And that's ridiculous.
0:06:51And what's really ridiculous is you can't add a new iCloud account just for photos and
0:06:55log into that account.
0:06:56It won't let you.
0:06:57The master iCloud account has to be the one that you use for photos.
0:07:02So this is a big hole.
0:07:05You can put them on your family plan and drag things manually into the family album, but
0:07:12That's not the same, and those are down-res versions that are on the sharing version.
0:07:18It's not the full-res version like is on iCloud Photo Library.
0:07:21So this is definitely a hole in the offering that you basically have to be on the same
0:07:25iCloud account or you can't share the whole library.
0:07:29You can only share like using iCloud sharing.
0:07:32Yeah, yeah.
0:07:34They'll get there, I think.
0:07:36I think Apple has shown that they're actually paying attention to family stuff a little
0:07:39bit more now, but it's just a huge gap that you can't...
0:07:43It could be as easy as just saying, "Look, I want to add this iCloud account for my photo
0:07:49syncing."
0:07:50But right now you can't do that on the Mac.
0:07:53It wants that to be your primary, and there's a whole bunch of things that can only be in
0:07:57the primary iCloud.
0:07:59So sad.
0:08:02I see it as like, you know how in Messages you can open up Preferences and sign in with
0:08:06different accounts?
0:08:07Like, you can sign in with iMessages or AIM or whatever, I feel like there should be just
0:08:11a preferences where it's like, sign in with this iCloud account and you'll download all
0:08:15these photos.
0:08:16Yeah, I mean, you could even put it in the Photos app, although because it's using the
0:08:22iCloud's syncing infrastructure, I think that's what complicates it, and they pick up, you
0:08:27know, they're using the same infrastructure as everything else that syncs via iCloud,
0:08:30which is great, but it has some issues.
0:08:34I think the whole pausing and throttling of bandwidth for the uploads and downloads is
0:08:39related and I think this account requirement is related. And it's not good. It needs, we
0:08:47can try to guess why this is happening, but the bottom line is if a husband and a wife
0:08:52want to share their photo library, which is perfectly reasonable, my wife and I want to
0:08:56do that, but I'm going to have to log her out of her iCloud account and into mine if
0:09:02she wants to do that. And that's going to have other side effects. And, you know, we'll
0:09:06probably do it because she wants access to the library, but it's kind of dumb that there's
0:09:10no other way to do it or that she can't just be logged in for that one thing.
0:09:13Yeah, that's a terrible solution to the problem. It's just so bad. Like, because iCloud is
0:09:18so important now, in theory. Unless, you know, your wife doesn't use a lot of the features,
0:09:24but in theory it's supposed to be so important. Like, making that the only option seems kind
0:09:28seems kind of crazy. The more and more I hear about photos, because again like I
0:09:32haven't used it, I just am not... there's just too many complaints for me to want
0:09:38to jump into this right now, but like the more and more I hear about it the more
0:09:41and more I think it's maybe not done. It reminds me of Final Cut, like they
0:09:46released it, I think you said this, they released it before it was kind of
0:09:50finished. I don't know, I feel like it is... what it is is done, but it's
0:09:57very clear that there are features that just aren't in there that they need to add. I mean,
0:10:01the fact that you can't do geotagging in the app is ridiculous. That's one of those things.
0:10:05I feel like the iCloud stuff is separately—this is hard, right? You've got huge libraries
0:10:11that you have to import. You've got this whole new cloud services thing that you have to
0:10:14sync to, and you've rewritten this app. And then there's a lot of moving parts here. And
0:10:19actually, I'm really liking it. I'm enjoying the fact that I have access to my whole library
0:10:24and that it's in the cloud.
0:10:26But there are definitely issues.
0:10:28One of the big issues is your iOS devices.
0:10:31If you've got a 50,000 or 40,000 image library, you tap on like the photo sharing button in
0:10:36an app and it just sits there for like 20 seconds because it's parsing, whatever it's
0:10:41doing it's like parsing the 50,000 records in your library or something and Apple's got
0:10:46to fix that.
0:10:47So there are a lot of little things.
0:10:48I would say it's not a disaster at all.
0:10:53It is enjoyable.
0:10:55It brings a lot to the party, but at the same time, it is most definitely early days.
0:11:00And if you just don't want to deal with it yet, nobody's going to make you.
0:11:05So really, you have to be a little bit of a pioneer.
0:11:08But I do feel like I'm getting something out of being a pioneer, but it is rougher than
0:11:15it will be later because they'll add in features and figure out some of the cloud-syncing stuff.
0:11:19I think like Final Cut and even iMovie and some of the other apps that they've rewritten,
0:11:26the philosophy seems to be, let's just get it out there.
0:11:29And getting it out there, we can start making it better once it's out there.
0:11:32We can't just sit here and not ship it forever.
0:11:33And they've reached the point where it's like, we're going to ship this, and then we're going
0:11:36to see what people's issues are, and we're going to fix it.
0:11:38And hopefully, this stuff will get fixed rapidly in the next few months.
0:11:44But we'll see.
0:11:45We'll see.
0:11:46But I'm kind of glad they got it out there.
0:11:48And now, you know, those of us on the frontier here will just have to deal with it.
0:11:53So we'll probably talk about this point later.
0:11:57But I think, like, my feeling is when something is new like this, and see if you can guess
0:12:03my hinting here, if something is new like this and you don't necessarily need it, like,
0:12:07you don't need photos right now because, like, iPhotos did exist, I get, like, that you can,
0:12:14that there can be things that aren't 100%, like, there's things that are missing, or
0:12:18are things that need to be added but it's like I think there's more of a
0:12:22problem when like say for example if something already exists like we all
0:12:26hated iOS 7 for the many bugs and problems that it had
0:12:30because it was kind of you kind of had no option it was kind of like that was
0:12:33what you needed to use because iOS existed your iPhone
0:12:36existed but like something completely brand new
0:12:39where you're not it's not replacing something
0:12:42completely I think it's it's kind of fine do you get do you get what I'm what
0:12:46what I'm driving at.
0:12:47Yeah, yeah, and I think, I mean, I think calling it, I think there's a reason this isn't iPhoto10,
0:12:54is calling it Filecut Pro 10 made people say, "Hey, are you saying we need to replace our
0:12:59old Final Cut with this new thing that we don't like?" And, you know, I think the idea
0:13:02is no, you don't need to. And I think that's what Apple is saying about photos, is photos
0:13:06is here, we're not going to update the old things, but they're not going away, they don't
0:13:09get deleted, your old libraries remain, I mean, there's lots of, you know, there's lots
0:13:14of things like that. So it doesn't it doesn't feel like this is quite the forced upgrade.
0:13:18I think though that if you're an iPhoto user, you know, you're kind of starving for something
0:13:23better than iPhoto. And so that that's the thing that's pushing you into jumping into
0:13:27this. Not that not that Apple is forcing you to do it, but that like you really would like
0:13:31to be out of iPhoto. That's certainly how I felt. It's like, please let me get out of
0:13:35here. So so we'll see how it goes. I I'm going to be optimistic. I feel like this is this
0:13:43is a place where some of this stuff just obviously should be—is missing and needs to be added
0:13:50or things that are broken that need to be fixed. And we've seen with, I think, certainly
0:13:55with Final Cut that Apple did a good job of addressing what the issues were. So I hope
0:13:59that they do that with this. This is super important to them as a company. They need
0:14:02to do this and do it right. So we'll see where it goes. But yeah, the geotagging thing is
0:14:07the one that really kills me. They got to fix that because not being able to take your
0:14:12pictures and say, "I shot them here," is bad. We have a little bit more follow-up,
0:14:20follow-out stuff. Listener Zach wrote in to suggest, we were talking, we were speculating
0:14:27last week about the future of OS X and how it would be, maybe its name would change because
0:14:33somebody was asking about, "Will we ever see OS 11?" And Zach suggested Apple OS with
0:14:38merged OSs and a new naming scheme. This is Upgrading Zach. He has self-identified as
0:14:43an Upgrading. And I don't know, I heard from a lot of people who said, "Well, there'll
0:14:48just be one Apple OS and there'll be a Mac version of it and an iPhone and iPad version
0:14:55of it." I don't believe that. I just don't, I mean, it could happen, I suppose, but I
0:15:00kind of feel like those OSs are not converging. I think this is something that was a very
0:15:06Scott Forstall era way of thinking and that the current people at Apple do not view a
0:15:11convergence of operating systems so much as shared resources and shared services, but
0:15:17not like it's the same OS with the same branding. I just kind of don't believe that. And although
0:15:22iOS, you know, you could rebrand it Apple OS, I don't think they're gonna rebrand the
0:15:26iPhone as the Apple phone and the iPad as the Apple pad. So iOS for iPhone and iPad
0:15:30kind of makes sense to me, but OS X is the one that I still am kind of high on my feeling
0:15:37that it might end up going back to Mac OS at some point. Anyway, I don't think they're
0:15:41going to merge.
0:15:42>>No, the fact that the watch is called Watch OS, like they don't even call that iOS, even
0:15:49pushes that further away from me. If this ran iOS 8, like if it said it ran iOS 8, then
0:15:54I might buy it, but they've just introduced a new product and they've given it a new OS
0:15:58name.
0:15:59Which is good because it doesn't behave like, we'll talk about this, but it doesn't behave
0:16:02like iOS, so it's good that they don't say that it's iOS because it is so not.
0:16:06It does not.
0:16:08We've got a couple like in the family follow up.
0:16:11Do you want to talk about some stuff that's going on at Relay?
0:16:14Yeah, so today we announced that the incredible Mac Power Users, the podcasting institution
0:16:22that is Mac Power Users has joined Relay FM and just we are beyond thrilled that we have
0:16:29the fantastic Katie Floyd and David Sparks as part of the Relay family now.
0:16:33So the entire back catalogue of MacPower users now lives at relay.fm/mpu.
0:16:38You can subscribe to the new feed there. If you are already subscribed with the
0:16:425x5 feed it will transfer over but my recommendation if you're listening to
0:16:47this now is to subscribe to the new Relay feed so you don't get episode
0:16:50duplicates and all that kind of stuff. It can be a bit messy.
0:16:53Oh podcast feeds are the worst.
0:16:55So I know that there are ways to not get episode duplicates,
0:16:59but then it brings up more potential risks.
0:17:02So we're just taking the path of, believe it or not,
0:17:05least resistance with it.
0:17:06As Jason can attest to.
0:17:09- Yeah, man.
0:17:10It's the worst.
0:17:14- So we are just so thrilled.
0:17:16If you've not heard Mac Power Users, you really should,
0:17:19because it is just incredible.
0:17:20Katie and David have been doing this since 2009.
0:17:25It was so much fun, because we did an import
0:17:27of the show notes, and I was going through
0:17:29and just tidying some things up,
0:17:31and it was really fun to follow it through from episode one,
0:17:35because I was like, "Oh, the iPad's been released now!"
0:17:37And just looking at how things changed, it's really great.
0:17:41And if you've not heard the show,
0:17:43what I'm gonna do and go put in our show notes today,
0:17:44which you can find at relay.fm/upgrades/34,
0:17:48I'm gonna put the two workflow episodes, mine and Jason's,
0:17:51'cause that might be a nice little taster for you,
0:17:53in case you've not yet heard it.
0:17:56- Yeah, it's a great show.
0:17:57Those are great people.
0:17:59David lives not far from my in-laws house.
0:18:03So we have like breakfast or lunch
0:18:05when I'm down in Southern California.
0:18:06And it's great to have them on Relay.
0:18:10That's a great show.
0:18:11They have a huge following.
0:18:14MacPower users, listeners are many and varied.
0:18:17And we discovered that Federico owes his,
0:18:22essentially his obsession with iOS automation and Pythonista and things like that to listening
0:18:29to Mac power users when he was in the hospital, which is a great story.
0:18:32- Yeah, he wrote that on his site on MacStory.
0:18:34- On MacStory.
0:18:35- So I'll put that in the show notes too.
0:18:36- Nice.
0:18:37- 'Cause he said to me, he was like, "I have a little story to tell in my link today."
0:18:40And I was like, "Okay."
0:18:41- That's a good one.
0:18:44Also in the Relay family, we should mention that there's now a Clockwise t-shirt.
0:18:49Not yet, Myke, not yet an upgrade t-shirt.
0:18:52We can talk about that now, or should we leave it for the Ask upgrade?
0:18:56Let's tease that we'll talk about it in the Ask upgrade.
0:18:59But anyway, you can go to teespring.com/clockwise and it'll also be in the show notes, which
0:19:04are in your podcasting app, or at relay.fm/upgrades/34.
0:19:09And you can go to teespring.com/clockwise and buy a Clockwise t-shirt, which is the
0:19:14Clockwise logo of the Clockwise arrow inside the gear.
0:19:19On the front and on the back it says keep watching the clock and has the clockwise URL
0:19:24from Relay and it comes in a gold color which is the closest match to what the actual podcast
0:19:30logo is.
0:19:31So it's very colorful.
0:19:32It's the hypercritical gold John Zaragoza would point out.
0:19:35It's the classic hypercritical gold and there's also a tie-dye version if you want to spend
0:19:38$25 you can get a tie-dye t-shirt with the clockwise logo on it because why not?
0:19:42Tie-dye.
0:19:43Hey California.
0:19:44I just for everybody that likes the yellow and for everybody that doesn't like the yellow
0:19:48I've really pushed Jason to make this t-shirt yellow.
0:19:51- Yeah, at one point it was gray and you said,
0:19:54make it yellow and I said, okay.
0:19:56- Because it should be yellow because the show's yellow
0:19:59and I have about a thousand gray t-shirts now.
0:20:04So yellow is the best.
0:20:06That's why we went blue with the connected one.
0:20:08We wanna put a bit more color into our wardrobes.
0:20:12So that's great.
0:20:13So you can find those there.
0:20:14So go support clockwise.
0:20:16It's a great show.
0:20:17support those guys Jason and Dan by buying a t-shirt.
0:20:22All right and we're on to topics so would you like to tell us before we get there about
0:20:27a friend?
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0:23:01I bought a lot of crazy domains then, so I'll have to, this August, I'll have to decide
0:23:04whether I want to keep them or let them go back into the world.
0:23:08Can I just do one very very very quick piece of follow-up on follow-up?
0:23:11Yes.
0:23:12Because in last week's episode you did a bit of follow-up about the Magic Mouse.
0:23:15Oh yes, and somebody pointed out that, so somebody said that the Magic Mouse had a speaker
0:23:21in it and it was a fake click and people wrote in to say it's not, it's a real click.
0:23:26There was an Apple Mouse that had a speaker and a fake click but the current Magic Mouse
0:23:30that we're thinking of does not have that.
0:23:32That's what I was gonna, 'cause I was gonna say, I didn't know this, but there's no way
0:23:36that that is a fake click.
0:23:37Like 100% that's real.
0:23:39I think as we said at the time, we had no idea about what was real or not.
0:23:43We were just taking people's word for it.
0:23:45So yeah.
0:23:46And I wanted to clarify, I do own one and use one.
0:23:47'Cause you said that we didn't use one, but I do.
0:23:50And so I didn't know about the tapping thing and I still need to check that out.
0:23:53So there was that app that you mentioned that allows you to do tapping.
0:23:57Steven and I were completely just baffled.
0:23:59We had no way to deal with that.
0:24:01So I'm glad you can come in and say, yes, it's a real mechanical click.
0:24:05So you were at the Yosemite conference.
0:24:09I was.
0:24:10So what was the Yosemite conference?
0:24:12Did you just learn about OS X for a week?
0:24:15So people were saying, "Hey, you went to Yosemite.
0:24:18That's like the OS version.
0:24:20That's a funny coincidence."
0:24:21And it's like, I mean, so Dave Klein and his family who do the Cococonf series of conferences,
0:24:26which are developer conferences with like technical developer presentations.
0:24:31They're like a sort of more of a roaming WWDC than some of these other conferences that
0:24:35are more like inspirational and big thoughts and kind of stuff.
0:24:38That's the impression I get.
0:24:39I've never been to one because I'm not a developer, but they decided when OS X Yosemite was announced
0:24:45that it was a perfect excuse to do an event in Yosemite National Park devoted to Apple
0:24:52stuff and make it more of the thinky, inspirational, big picture kind of things rather than the
0:24:58let's look at code kind of stuff that they usually do.
0:25:02And it was great.
0:25:04We all said, the big question is, should they just do it in Yosemite again next year or
0:25:08are they going to move to wherever Apple's next code name is?
0:25:13I don't know.
0:25:14If it's OS X Death Valley, then maybe we'll just go back to Yosemite.
0:25:18But I would be very surprised.
0:25:21It seems like putting death in the name of your product would be a bad idea, but you
0:25:25never know.
0:25:26It's Apple.
0:25:27They could do anything.
0:25:28Seriously, Matt Fricks.
0:25:29Anyway, it was great.
0:25:31Yosemite National Park is spectacular.
0:25:33If people haven't been, you should go sometime.
0:25:37People come having...
0:25:38I grew up very near there and people from all over the world come to see it.
0:25:44In fact, they would often go...
0:25:46I grew up in a little gold rush town, so people would often come to the little gold rush town
0:25:49after or before they went to Yosemite as part of their sort of California adventure that
0:25:53they were taking.
0:25:54in that little gold rush town where I worked summers at a deli, we had European and Asian
0:26:01tourists all the—it was just crazy, like all the time in the summer. And they were there because they
0:26:07were also going to Yosemite. Every single one of them was also going to Yosemite. So it was
0:26:11spectacular. We were at the Yosemite Lodge, which is right by the waterfalls. There's a huge set of
0:26:17waterfalls. There's an upper and a lower falls. And yes, even though it's California, there was
0:26:21water in the waterfall. We haven't run out of it quite yet. Probably in another month or two we'll
0:26:25be out. And I, yeah, so I was standing at a waterfall and I sent you a picture of a waterfall.
0:26:30- It looked so beautiful. I was so jealous. - Yeah, it was, it was beautiful.
0:26:36Ski Man in the chat room is asking if we had internet. The Wi-Fi was, you know,
0:26:41tech conferences kill the Wi-Fi anyway, and the Wi-Fi at Yosemite Lodge is tenuous at best.
0:26:48But it turns out I had a couple bars of 4G in the valley. So that was, depending on where you were,
0:26:54you could get, because there are these huge tall granite monoliths all around you.
0:26:57And so depending on where you are, signal can vary wildly. But we had, you know, I did have a
0:27:06couple of bars of 4G for, so I use that a lot. So that's what I, I sent you the picture of the
0:27:10waterfall. It was really beautiful. We were soaking wet. It was raining. But it was, it was
0:27:14beautiful. So I hope they do it again. I imagine that the Klein family will probably do something
0:27:18like this again and I think they're just really hoping for some great picturesque resort
0:27:23destination for the name of the next version of OS X so that they can choose that.
0:27:30- You gave a talk as well, right? - Yeah, I gave a little presentation on the first day
0:27:38and it was... yeah, I can never tell how presentations go. I don't know if it was any
0:27:45good or not. I wanted to talk about enthusiasm. I'm hoping that I'll give that presentation again
0:27:50sometime and do, you know, refine it a little bit more. But I wanted to talk about enthusiasm and
0:27:56how enthusiasm drives us. And you can be enthusiastic about a lot of different things.
0:28:01You can be super enthusiastic about one thing or mildly enthusiastic about a lot of things,
0:28:06which sort of parallels the incomparable. Why is it not about one thing in particular,
0:28:11that podcast that I do? Why is it not about Doctor Who or not about science fiction novels or not
0:28:17about superhero movies or something like that? And the answer is because I'm enthusiastic about all
0:28:23that stuff and I don't want to dive deep. I kind of want to be able to spread it around a little
0:28:27bit. And so I talked about that a little and how I feel like the web especially is very much
0:28:31distorted in rewarding people who are wildly enthusiastic about something and not moderately
0:28:39enthusiastic about something. And the example I always give is comic books, that there are all
0:28:43these comic book websites that post 20 or 30 stories a day about what's going on in the comics
0:28:47industry and I just don't care enough. I kind of care a little bit, but there's no... It's a lot
0:28:51harder to serve somebody like me who wants to read 30 minutes of comic book news a week, let's say,
0:28:59or maybe a month, because you can't... It's harder to build a business on that. You better
0:29:04better to cater to the people who will read 20 or 30 articles a day.
0:29:08So that was it.
0:29:09It was about enthusiasm and all the different forms it comes in and how I feel fortunate
0:29:12that my career is about things I'm enthusiastic about.
0:29:16And yeah, it was interesting.
0:29:19And the other talks were great.
0:29:20It was a great group.
0:29:21Gregor: Yeah, it was an awesome lineup.
0:29:23I was just looking at it then.
0:29:24David: And they did morning sessions and evening sessions, and then the afternoon was free
0:29:28to...
0:29:29There were groups and stuff going on hikes and photo walks and stuff.
0:29:32We went with James Duncan Davidson and took a photo walk around the falls, which was where
0:29:37I sent you that picture.
0:29:38And that was pretty awesome.
0:29:39And Dave Whiskus was there and Serenity Caldwell and on that photo walk.
0:29:44And Andy Anotko was kind of shadowing us because he'd gone on the photo walk the day before,
0:29:49but he wanted to retrace his steps and take more pictures and got to chat with Jim Dalrymple
0:29:52a little bit.
0:29:53Just, I mean, it was Michael Lop was there.
0:29:58So many good, Nevin and Krista Morgan were there.
0:30:01And it was good to see them.
0:30:02haven't seen them in a while. It was just a great, yeah, it was a fantastic, all the
0:30:06speakers were great, every single one of them. It was, it was a, it was a good time.
0:30:10I was very jealous. Well you'll just have to take some extra time sometime when you're
0:30:16in Northern California and you can go see it. Maybe I'll have to. It's pretty good.
0:30:20Should we start talking about the Apple Watch? I mean that's what people were here for today.
0:30:24Yeah I guess. I mean, yeah sure, might as well talk about the Apple Watch. We have,
0:30:29mean in true upgrade style we have a bunch of questions from listeners
0:30:35which we'll get to because a few of them highlight some interesting
0:30:39points about the the watch itself but I mean you posted your initial reactions
0:30:45and I kind of want to get an like if you can sum it up like give me an overall
0:30:49feeling I figure we'll both do this first what is your overall feeling about
0:30:54the Apple watch and then we'll get into that for example how you got your hands
0:30:58on yours is quite interesting.
0:31:00- I like it, it's fun.
0:31:03I feel like I am only now kind of starting to figure out
0:31:08how I'm going to use it.
0:31:11Like there's the act of like,
0:31:12let's see what everything is and how it all works,
0:31:15which is not how you use it day to day.
0:31:17And so I feel like I'm starting to settle down
0:31:19into like getting some idea of how I use it day to day.
0:31:21But it's a neat gadget, it tells the time,
0:31:25it is really well connected to my iPhone,
0:31:28which I really like, and I'm starting to understand it.
0:31:31But I'm enjoying it so far.
0:31:33I think it's been a lot of fun.
0:31:34I definitely, I post my thing and I heard it
0:31:36from a couple of people who are like,
0:31:38"Oh, well, here's another article where, you know,
0:31:40people are not raving about it and just dancing around
0:31:44saying that it's not that interesting."
0:31:46It's like, I don't know what article you read,
0:31:47but it wasn't mine, 'cause I think it's really interesting.
0:31:50Me not understanding things about it
0:31:52and trying to figure out how it fits into my life
0:31:54is not the same as not being enthusiastic about it.
0:31:56I think it's pretty cool.
0:31:57I'm pretty enthusiastic about it.
0:32:02Do I have things I can critique about it?
0:32:05Absolutely.
0:32:06I think there are some things in it that are probably mistakes.
0:32:08And I still am trying to wrap my head around some of the decisions that they made and try
0:32:12to figure out whether that works for me or not.
0:32:14But you know, it's a new, weird, different kind of product.
0:32:18So I think that is all to be expected.
0:32:23The Apple Watch is 1.0.
0:32:24Like it is very 1.0.
0:32:25Oh yeah.
0:32:26Like, you know, you say there are mistakes.
0:32:30There are just like, it's littered with tiny problems.
0:32:35But I'm okay with that, and this is kind of what I was trying to explain earlier.
0:32:38I'm okay with that because I understand what this product is, and part of the reason that
0:32:44it has problems is because it is very ambitious.
0:32:47So I mean, I've used Android Wear and found Android Wear to have some bugs but to be pretty
0:32:52stable overall.
0:32:53And when I originally tried Android Wear, it was way more stable than what the Apple
0:32:58Watch is.
0:33:00But the Android Wear watch just gave me some notifications.
0:33:05That was all it did.
0:33:07And I could play and pause music and archive email.
0:33:09Like I mean I know that it's changed now and it's also more advanced but I'm like comparing
0:33:14my original kind of feelings from both.
0:33:17And the Apple Watch is way more advanced than that and it does some really incredible things
0:33:21that we can talk about.
0:33:22the watch started to make more sense for me when I realised its purpose. So I think
0:33:29I think the problem that I had initially and I think the problem that many people
0:33:34are having is they are treating this device like it's a tiny iPhone. Like they
0:33:38are thinking about it in that way. Because so many of the the watches
0:33:42problems come from when you are going into it and asking it to do something
0:33:47for you. So you're going into it and trying to open an app or play a game or
0:33:51something. That is not what this device is for. Like I feel that the Apple
0:33:56Watch is a device that comes and grabs you when it needs you as opposed to you
0:34:02going to it to get information and that is a fundamental difference between the
0:34:06iPhone and the Apple Watch. And I think once I understood that I feel a lot
0:34:11better about the product. But when I'm trying to go to it for things it's...
0:34:16There are some issues with it and we can maybe talk about the home screen and
0:34:20apps in general and why I think Apple's made some mistakes there, but I think
0:34:24that I feel a lot better about this product once I actually spent some time
0:34:29not using it and just having it grab me when it should rather than
0:34:35me just going to it and just playing and tinkering around.
0:34:38Yeah, I agree with you that part of the complication of this product is that it's so ambitious, it's trying to do a lot, and then when you
0:34:46settle back and sort of like let it come to you, it makes a lot more sense. I think that
0:34:52is philosophically what they went for. I think that's where I feel like there's a little
0:34:56bit of a lack of focus is that they want it to come to you, but they also want to have
0:35:01a billion apps in that crazy app interface.
0:35:03- Yep. Oh, good.
0:35:04- And I'm not sure those go together, but when I realized, it started to make sense
0:35:12to me when I realized the two most important things I could do on the watch are swipe down
0:35:15and swipe up. That if I swipe down, I'm going to see my notifications. And if I swipe up,
0:35:21I'm going to see glances. And that if I have a small number of glances and the glances
0:35:26are important to me, then that is a very quick way to access stuff without going out to the
0:35:31app launcher and finding an app and launching it. It's a little bit like the dock. It's
0:35:35like a shortcut kind of thing because you can always tap on the glance and end up in
0:35:39an app. But that, once I started doing that and thinking, I don't need to go out to the
0:35:44app launcher every time I want to do something. Then I was like, "Oh, okay. This makes a little
0:35:49more sense to me now." The third-party apps not being integrated, like third-party apps
0:35:54should be able to do complications in the watch face. That would be easier that if I
0:35:57want to stick data from one of my apps on the watch face and then tap on that little
0:36:01corner of the watch face to launch that app and get more information, that would be nice.
0:36:05I hope they get there eventually.
0:36:07That feels like an SDK thing to me.
0:36:09Like that feels like that is what would be in the SDK is how I see it.
0:36:13I heard some developers say that they actually looked and discovered that complications are
0:36:17extensions.
0:36:18They are extensions.
0:36:19So theoretically a developer could write a complication if Apple allowed it.
0:36:24So you know, yeah, it's a 1.0 product.
0:36:26I feel like the hardware, this is total Apple, modern Apple, right?
0:36:30I feel like the hardware is spectacular.
0:36:34It's spot on.
0:36:36And then the software is like, "Let's figure it out!"
0:36:39We both have the sport, don't we?
0:36:41Yeah.
0:36:42I have the green, as it happens.
0:36:45A green sport watch appeared.
0:36:48I have the developer edition, I have the blue.
0:36:51Oh, nice.
0:36:55Everything about the hardware is amazing.
0:37:00It's so beautiful.
0:37:01the screen I said this before but the screen on this thing is about ten times
0:37:06better than it should be. Oh yeah. Like there is no reason sometimes I catch
0:37:11things like some of the notifications like the calendar of alert notification
0:37:16it's one of the most beautiful screens I've seen on an Apple product the colors
0:37:21and like just the way it is designed it's like it's mind-blowing like it just
0:37:26to me just looks so good because the screen is so good and it is so small so
0:37:32everything's so crisp and there are parts where this even like in
0:37:38software design as well where the two of them meet together and it blows my mind
0:37:42like one of my most favorite things is when you are centered on
0:37:48the home screen to the watch and you zoom in to the watch with the digital
0:37:52crown and it comes into focus by building the watch face as you zoom.
0:37:58Have you tried that? Do you know what I'm talking about here? I don't know. So if
0:38:05you go to the home screen, if you just press the crown and go to the
0:38:09home screen and then zoom in on the watch slowly, it builds the
0:38:16Oh yeah yeah I have noticed that. Yeah and that to me is one of the... I just find that so beautiful.
0:38:23Yeah it does sort of make me want to be able to at any time zoom out with the crown out of the watch face and you can't.
0:38:31Once you're in there you're in there. But yeah that's that the the animations on some of the faces where it sort of sweeps around the dial are...
0:38:42There's some amazing stuff there. Just a lot of the animations in general are really good
0:38:47I mean, so there are parts of it that are just so good and I really like the sport band
0:38:52I found it a little bit sweaty by the end of the day, but I'm totally fine with that
0:38:57I do want another band because the blue sport band is not a goes of everything kind of band
0:39:03And I'm waiting to get the Milanese
0:39:06But I'm not ordering it online because I'm not gonna wait until June for it to ship
0:39:11I expect to be able to either get it in the UK or in San Francisco before then
0:39:15like I'm not gonna pay 129 pounds and wait for something until June I'll just
0:39:19get it when it's available in the store even if it's not available until July and
0:39:23I just think that's crazy like yeah okay here's 129 pounds now and I'll just
0:39:29wait until June I know they don't charge you but it just seems like a crazy thing
0:39:32to me I'll just wait. I want to talk about the home screen.
0:39:38Because I think that this... So fundamentally I think that the fact that
0:39:43Apple call where the apps go the home screen is like problem number one.
0:39:50Because I don't think Apple consider the app screen as the home screen. I think
0:39:55they consider the watch face as the home screen. And I checked in the
0:39:59documentation, I checked in the user guide, because I wanted to double check this. They call the
0:40:03app screen, the home screen. It's not home. And the lock screen on the
0:40:08iPhone is not the watch face, right? Because if you think like on the iPhone
0:40:13you look at the watch face and then you look at the lock screen and you go
0:40:19to the apps, right? But the utility of the watch face on the watch is way more and
0:40:26the purpose of it is way more than the lock screen is to the iPhone.
0:40:31The lock screen on the iPhone exists so you don't accidentally launch apps.
0:40:34That's why it's there, right? So it's in your pocket and it's not just
0:40:38pressing apps all the time. But the watch face, that is the primary function of
0:40:43this device. That is home. And the fact that the home screen is the app screen,
0:40:52it just makes no sense to me. Because it just doesn't feel like a
0:40:58place where I want to be a lot of the time.
0:41:00I agree.
0:41:01This is, I mean, a bunch of us have been saying this, I agree with you completely.
0:41:04The face is home, and then from home the directly accessible things are notifications and glances.
0:41:11The watch, when you go into the app screen, and I think that's a good name for it, you're
0:41:16kind of dumping out of home and going to this place that looks like the iPhone home screen,
0:41:22but it's not home on the watch.
0:41:24It's in some ways I feel like,
0:41:27it's not necessarily that I've failed
0:41:31when I have to go to the app launcher screen
0:41:33because there's some stuff that's just not,
0:41:34I wanna get to it and I don't have a notification from it
0:41:37and it's not in my glances and I wanna go look it up.
0:41:40But it's definitely like leafing
0:41:41through the back of the book.
0:41:42It's like going through the index.
0:41:44It's like, oh, I need to go and look something up.
0:41:46I'm gonna go to the app screen and go find it.
0:41:48It's like a last resort, not the comfy,
0:41:51you know, a comfy place that's home.
0:41:53It's the index of apps.
0:41:55It's the last resort to get something.
0:41:57I need to get this thing and I don't have it in front of me.
0:41:59I'm gonna go get it in the app screen.
0:42:01- Yeah. - Yeah.
0:42:05All right, we're in violent agreement here.
0:42:07- Yeah, 'cause, so like one other thing
0:42:10is like the way the buttons work,
0:42:12like I, 'cause when you press the crown,
0:42:19it takes you to the apps, not to the watch face, right?
0:42:23and I want it to take me to the watch face.
0:42:25Does that make sense?
0:42:27So if I'm in an app and I press the crown,
0:42:29I wanna go back to the watch face.
0:42:31So my theory on this is,
0:42:34I think that the tapping the crown
0:42:36should take you to the watch
0:42:38and tapping the other button should take you home
0:42:40to the apps.
0:42:42- I agree.
0:42:43- And you hold the long button
0:42:44to bring up the friend circle.
0:42:46- I agree.
0:42:48I think devoting that button
0:42:49to the friend circle is a mistake.
0:42:53But I thought that since day one, and I still feel that way.
0:42:56But this is when we talk about 1.0, it's stuff like this.
0:42:58I feel like we're all gonna learn,
0:43:00and Apple's gonna learn how people use this,
0:43:03and is going, I would like to believe
0:43:06that there will be a software update for the watch
0:43:08that is very much like, all right, we heard you,
0:43:11we figured this out, here's our new take.
0:43:14And those emojis are not there anymore.
0:43:18(laughs)
0:43:19Just we're not gonna even talk about them, they're gone.
0:43:21- I love them in an ironic way.
0:43:24I like sending them to people.
0:43:26- 'Cause they're so bad.
0:43:27- 'Cause they're so ridiculous.
0:43:28They're just ridiculous.
0:43:29The animations on them, again, are really great.
0:43:32They just look ridiculous.
0:43:34With a creepy, creepy glove hand.
0:43:38- Oh yeah.
0:43:39Yeah, it's weird.
0:43:41So I feel like, I don't know if Apple's going to let us
0:43:45set what the buttons do,
0:43:46so much as that Apple may rethink what the buttons do.
0:43:49And I think that would be fine.
0:43:50'Cause I think you're right.
0:43:50my mental map of the watch, like you,
0:43:52I kind of want, take me to the watch face,
0:43:55take me to the app list,
0:43:57and not this sort of like take me to my friends,
0:44:01my little list of 12 friends where I spin the dial.
0:44:03And I'm not sure that's the most efficient way.
0:44:06It's a fun interface, but I, yeah, it's not my favorite.
0:44:10I just, should I mention,
0:44:13I have two things that I wanna mention
0:44:14before we get to the questions and answers
0:44:16and maybe hear from a friend.
0:44:17One is how I got the watch.
0:44:19- Yes.
0:44:20promoted that in advance.
0:44:22It's not a super secret way.
0:44:23I don't have a watch from Apple.
0:44:25I talked to them and they said,
0:44:27"We're probably not gonna be able to get you on lunch day."
0:44:30It's like, "Oh well."
0:44:31(imitates air horn)
0:44:34And I ordered like three minutes or five minutes
0:44:37into the order period,
0:44:38but I ordered the one that everybody else ordered,
0:44:39which was the Space Gray Sport.
0:44:41And so it's marked as shipping in May.
0:44:43So I thought, well, you know what?
0:44:46I'm just, I'm not gonna order a watch just,
0:44:50I don't know what I was thinking.
0:44:51It was after midnight.
0:44:52I'm not gonna order a watch just to get it on day one.
0:44:55That's a watch I don't want,
0:44:56which I probably should have just gone ahead and done that.
0:45:00So the day before the Apple Watch comes out,
0:45:04I just got home from Yosemite, checking my email
0:45:08and a friend of mine, former coworker of mine
0:45:11sends me an email.
0:45:12It's not an editor, it's a technical guy.
0:45:15Says, "I've got a watch coming tomorrow
0:45:19and I don't want it. I was going to put it on eBay or something, but I figure six colors could
0:45:27use it. Do you want it?" And I say, "Yeah, actually, yes. I will write you a check. I do want it.
0:45:35I've got a lot of other things going on, but I should probably have the Apple Watch on day one."
0:45:38And so on the day, he sent me a text when he was working at home. He sent me a text when he got it.
0:45:43And about two miles from my house, we had a little, like on a street. It was not his street
0:45:49and not my street we had a like a meet up and there was an exchange of of cash for goods.
0:45:56Did you get the watch out of a brown paper bag tucked inside a trash can?
0:46:00Uh like a dead drop I did not. He just handed me the box that it came in the shipping box
0:46:09and we chatted for five or ten minutes and then I came home and thus began my adventure with
0:46:15green Apple Watch sport. But it was just kind of funny. It was completely
0:46:19serendipity. I hadn't, I had sort of planned to just not not be part of the
0:46:24party, but in the end I got to be part of the party. So now I don't know what I'm
0:46:27gonna do with the one I ordered. I may cancel that order even though I do like
0:46:30the the space gray look. But anyway, if I do keep that order then I'll upgrade Ian's
0:46:37gonna have first crack at buying my other Apple Watch from me. Get the Apple Watch
0:46:41worn by Jason when he wrote that article. But I haven't decided what I want to do about
0:46:47that. But anyway, the other thing I wanted to talk about is the cheese vertical.
0:46:50Yeah. I bought cheese with my Apple watch.
0:46:54Of course you did. It wasn't Manchego. It was mozzarella because
0:46:58we, I was making pizza on Saturday night and we were out of mozzarella. So I walked down
0:47:04to the local Whole Foods, which is very close to my house, which is why I can walk there.
0:47:09And so that's why I shop there way more than I should, because it's within walking distance.
0:47:13And I got up to the counter with my little thing of cheese, and I double tapped the little
0:47:20friends button, and held my wrist up to the little reader, and it all went like bloop
0:47:27bloop, you know, and that was it.
0:47:31They let me leave the store with some cheese.
0:47:33So apparently I bought that cheese with my Apple Watch.
0:47:37Again, I don't have much of a story here.
0:47:39It worked, and it's cool that I didn't have to do any thumbprint or anything because I
0:47:45had my watch on my wrist and so it had validated that I was me.
0:47:52I just want Apple Pay.
0:47:54I would like it.
0:47:55It would be nice.
0:47:56I know.
0:47:57Wouldn't that be nice if you had that?
0:47:58It would be a really great day for everyone.
0:48:00Yeah.
0:48:01Yeah.
0:48:02I hope it's coming.
0:48:03There are lots of like little rumors that fly around and say like Q2 or something.
0:48:08It's you know it's big businesses, big business in you know that's what they're
0:48:11doing. They're just business in around each other for a bit and eventually
0:48:14they're gonna yeah they're gonna do it but this is financial institutions which
0:48:18are just slow slow. On the last analyst call Apple actually likened it to the
0:48:24carrier negotiations. That it was that difficult that they really had to go
0:48:29into each market and negotiate with individual banks and individual payment
0:48:33processors and get it to work. So I really have my fingers crossed for a more firm
0:48:38announcement on the call today. At least to say yes it's gonna be coming to these
0:48:44countries in Q2. Like I want to hear Apple say it and then I'll be happy. Like
0:48:49I don't care if I have to wait enough for three months or whatever I just want
0:48:51to know that it is happening rather than like yeah we're working on it. Like
0:48:55that's not you know that's that's nothing and until it's until there's a
0:48:59confirmation working on it means nothing right because we still don't have iTunes
0:49:03radio you know so it's it's kind of the same deal yeah we're gonna bring it to
0:49:10other regions okay well we'll see I still feel like I have so much more to
0:49:16say about the Apple watch but I figure what we should maybe do is start going
0:49:20through some of these questions because it might it might a little bit I did
0:49:25just want to just just before we do move away out because I don't think we're
0:49:28gonna talk about this again I do want to just talk about the home screen a little
0:49:31bit more in so much as to say like there it's it's it's weird it's not good it's
0:49:39not good so the app like the app targets the touch targets always too small I
0:49:44very very frequently do not open the app that I want I open the app that's next
0:49:51to it do you feel do you it does that happen to you no okay maybe my fingers
0:49:58bigger than yours I don't know or maybe I'm maybe I've just just hit in the
0:50:01wrong places trying to arrange apps is a nightmare it's an absolute nightmare so
0:50:09you know like on the iPhone they like when you try and move apps around it
0:50:14pushes all of the apps that are next to it right or around it but the thing is
0:50:18with the Apple watch what it seems to do it pushes them in all directions yeah so
0:50:24Like you move one app and the entire line changes. It's like, "Oh, just let me put them
0:50:29arbitrarily like or something." It's a bit, it's nightmarish to arrange apps. But there
0:50:37are some apps that are really, really good. And there are some apps that are not good.
0:50:43And I think it's clear who has had the most time with a device.
0:50:48- Yeah, although I think not necessarily,
0:50:51but it does seem to feel that way that we know.
0:50:55We know that developers got to go to labs
0:50:57and use these devices and actually do some hardware testing.
0:51:00But I feel like even then it's not the same
0:51:03as living with the device.
0:51:04And so that we're gonna see a lot of app revisions happen
0:51:08soon from people, from developers who are like,
0:51:10"Oh yeah, that totally doesn't work.
0:51:12Let's try this instead."
0:51:14But you're right, some apps felt really good
0:51:17and some apps were kind of pointless.
0:51:20But like I was using, I had a Twitter-ific notification
0:51:25and I tapped on it and it opened the Twitter-ific app
0:51:27and allowed me to send a reply using text, speech to text.
0:51:31That was a pretty cool experience.
0:51:34I have to say that was pretty cool.
0:51:36Every now and then I have one of those experiences
0:51:38that I am surprised at how well it works.
0:51:40- Yeah.
0:51:41But one of the main problems with the Herparty apps
0:51:43is the delays.
0:51:45like sometimes you tap something or you try and open an app and you're just waiting.
0:51:49Spin, spin, spin, spin.
0:51:50I was trying to demo a workflow for Federico and I was basically making a video for him and
0:51:57I was waiting like two minutes because I was recording it. I'm sitting there going,
0:52:02"I'm so sorry buddy, like maybe in a minute." And I don't think this is the issue of developers
0:52:09because they don't know a lot of this stuff and I'm sure there are things they can do to speed it
0:52:12up, but because they haven't got the devices, there's nothing they can do.
0:52:16But like the workflow app is kind of incredible, the things that it's able to do.
0:52:21I don't know how it does them.
0:52:23It's kind of like the iPhone app.
0:52:26But yeah, there are some real issues with lag for the third-party apps.
0:52:33Yeah, definitely.
0:52:34I mean, 1.0, I mean, it's what we said about photos, and it's true for this.
0:52:39I think this hardware is pretty good, but the software is—it's new, and they're taking
0:52:44their best shot at it.
0:52:45It doesn't mean, like, they should have waited.
0:52:47I think at some point you have to get it out there and learn.
0:52:52And the true test is that, how will Apple react to this learning process?
0:52:58What comes next?
0:52:59And given that we have WWDC coming up, I'm hoping that what we're going to see is some
0:53:04thoughts about the direction that the Apple Watch is going, and I hope we get to see some
0:53:08software revisions for Apple Watch now that it's out there and see Apple
0:53:11readjusting and figuring out the right things to do for this product.
0:53:16But it is cool and fun, and although we have criticisms about it, because
0:53:22there's definitely work to be done, I'm enjoying it a lot.
0:53:26I feel like there's so much to appreciate about it, even though there also is so much
0:53:33potential and there's so many things that can be explored and changed and learned about
0:53:39this product as we go. So that's—it's 1.0 in all those senses, right? It is the excitement
0:53:45of the new and it truly is new and I love that feeling like this is weird and different.
0:53:52It's not like what I'm used to. At the same time, 1.0 means what, you know, what most
0:53:56people know that it means, which is there are bugs, things don't work right, some things
0:54:00are going to have to be rethought. That's totally true.
0:54:02- The things that I love about it,
0:54:04I really, really love about it.
0:54:06The things that annoy me really, really annoy me.
0:54:08- That's Scream.
0:54:09The screen is amazing.
0:54:12Yeah, and the aluminum, nobody does aluminum like Apple.
0:54:15It's amazing.
0:54:16There's so many things to like about it.
0:54:17Like I said, the hardware I feel like
0:54:18is almost beyond reproach.
0:54:20It is beautiful piece of hardware.
0:54:22And then the software, yeah, it's got some great ideas
0:54:24and some stuff that's like, oh, I see what you did there.
0:54:27I love your ambition.
0:54:28I'm not sure if it works, but I love that you tried it.
0:54:31- So like I could just sit and look at that watch face
0:54:34all day, which is something that I love,
0:54:37but the problem is it goes off too quickly,
0:54:38something that annoys me.
0:54:39You know, so that's kind of how I am with this device,
0:54:42is I really love it and it really annoys me,
0:54:44but I really love it, but it really annoys me.
0:54:47I feel like I keep going through this at the same time,
0:54:49but I do feel like my love is stronger
0:54:52than the things that annoy me.
0:54:53I love more things about it
0:54:55than there are things that annoy me.
0:54:56- Yeah, yeah.
0:54:58That's the 1.0 experience right there.
0:55:01It reminds me of the iPhone.
0:55:03The original iPhone reminds me of that because the original iPhone frustrated me so much
0:55:06because it was limited.
0:55:07Why can't I copy and paste?
0:55:09Why doesn't it do this?
0:55:10Why can't I send picture messages?
0:55:12Why can't I send things over Bluetooth?
0:55:14There were all these things that it didn't do that really annoyed me, but there were
0:55:17all these other things that it did that I can't believe that it could do.
0:55:20Look, we've got questions.
0:55:22Let's get into the questions, but before we do that, let me thank our second sponsor this
0:55:24week and that is our friends at GoToMeeting by Citrix.
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0:57:18thank you so much to Citrix and gotomeeting for supporting upgrade yay so uh first question
0:57:25- Next question from Benjamin.
0:57:27This is a crazy one.
0:57:28Is there any way to view a reminders list
0:57:30on the Apple watch?
0:57:31- No.
0:57:33- No, there is not.
0:57:34You can add reminders.
0:57:35- All of the things that Apple has
0:57:38with their like ecosystem and syncing and apps
0:57:41on all the devices.
0:57:42And there's no reminders app on the Apple watch.
0:57:45- Which kind of feels like if you use reminders,
0:57:48it feels like the perfect device for reminders.
0:57:51- I do use reminders.
0:57:52I use reminders.
0:57:54And I think the answer is, I believe there may be some apps like Things that sync with
0:58:01Reminders and are on the Apple Watch.
0:58:06So I think there may be some other apps that sync with the Reminders list that might display
0:58:12it.
0:58:13But the official Apple approach of the Reminders app just isn't there.
0:58:17It's dumb.
0:58:18- The most functionable part of Reminders on the Apple Watch does exist, which is being
0:58:23able to add them but you cannot view them or check them off.
0:58:26Or check them off, yeah.
0:58:27Which is crazy.
0:58:28Did you say functionable?
0:58:30That's another word.
0:58:31Is that a word?
0:58:32You know me, Jason, I like to make up words.
0:58:35Functionable is today's word of the day.
0:58:38Okay good.
0:58:39Ding.
0:58:40This comes from Lucas.
0:58:42Can I use Apple Pay on my Apple Watch when my iPhone does not support it?
0:58:46I have an iPhone 5.
0:58:47I believe you can?
0:58:49Yes, you can.
0:58:51I thought I'd heard this somewhere.
0:58:52I think they set it on stage.
0:58:54- Yeah, they have the secure element
0:58:55and all of that in the watch.
0:58:56So if you have an iPhone 5,
0:58:58so you don't have the ability to do Apple Pay on your phone,
0:59:03you can do it with the watch.
0:59:05It's true.
0:59:05That is absolutely the case, which is pretty cool.
0:59:08- John has asked, "Is 42 millimeters a good size
0:59:12or will Myke want an even bigger model
0:59:13to be right about in the future?"
0:59:15(laughing)
0:59:16Good, that's good.
0:59:17I wanted to do this 'cause I like this question
0:59:19'cause I wanna break it down into two parts.
0:59:20Let's talk about the size of the watch.
0:59:22I think the watch for me is the perfect size.
0:59:24It is the same screen size as my Purple, effectively.
0:59:28It is thick, but it's not too thick,
0:59:32and I don't find it heavy, so it works for me perfectly.
0:59:37I don't have any problems with it, size-wise.
0:59:41What do you think?
0:59:42You got a 42 there, right?
0:59:43- I got a 42.
0:59:45So I have worn a watch my entire adult life.
0:59:49I mean, like, I take it off sometimes,
0:59:51but pretty much 90 plus percent of the days
0:59:55I have worn a watch at some point.
0:59:57And so for me, the amazing thing about it
1:00:02is it just feels like a watch.
1:00:03My wife put it on for a little bit
1:00:04and she was like, "Oh, it's so heavy."
1:00:05I'm like, "Well, she doesn't wear a watch."
1:00:07But if you're used to wearing a watch,
1:00:10it just, it feels like a watch.
1:00:11It's fine.
1:00:12And it doesn't, it actually,
1:00:14I was worried that it was gonna be, feel like super thick.
1:00:17Like I was wearing a big, you know, brick on my wrist
1:00:19and it doesn't feel thick at all.
1:00:21And the screen size, yeah, I mean, it would be nice
1:00:25if the screen was bigger, I suppose,
1:00:26just in the sense that you'd have more screen real estate,
1:00:30but it would not be nice in the sense
1:00:31that it would be a larger thing.
1:00:33And I feel like this is a good size for my wrist.
1:00:36I think it's a good match.
1:00:37And I don't, you know, if I want a larger screen,
1:00:39I've got my iPhone for that.
1:00:40So I feel like it's a good size.
1:00:42Everybody's, what we've learned is everybody's wrist
1:00:46is different, like the shape of the wrist,
1:00:50the bone structure and the size.
1:00:52There's so many different aspects,
1:00:57there's variation in the human body.
1:00:58So that's something that a lot of us geeks
1:01:01haven't really thought about.
1:01:02Is like I was up at Twit and I was talking to somebody
1:01:05about what they were thinking
1:01:06and they showed me their wrist
1:01:07and their wrist is like this totally different shape
1:01:10than mine and I thought,
1:01:13I can't tell you what to do here
1:01:14because I don't know how this thing is gonna fit on you.
1:01:17And in fact, I put the small sport band on.
1:01:20I'm using the small band, not the big band,
1:01:21which I had no idea,
1:01:23but I'm using the small band instead and it fits better.
1:01:27So I don't know.
1:01:29I feel like 42 millimeters is very nice.
1:01:32I feel like that's a good contrast.
1:01:34I think the real question is,
1:01:36well, Apple try to keep making it smaller and smaller,
1:01:39but 42 seems to fit really well on my wrist.
1:01:43And, you know, generally, the human body doesn't change that fast.
1:01:47It's going to be thousands of years before we can adapt our bodies to technology through,
1:01:55you know, through evolution.
1:01:56So we're stuck with what we got.
1:01:59And I think the 42 millimeter fits on a lot of wrists, and they'll do a smaller version
1:02:03for smaller wrists.
1:02:04And I think it's good.
1:02:05So I don't think we're going to get a "Myke was right" moment with the Apple Watch, but
1:02:08I could be wrong.
1:02:09>> No, I don't need the physical size of the watch to be bigger.
1:02:11I don't want it to be bigger at the moment.
1:02:13Like I can't think of, it's different to the phone.
1:02:15Like my, I feel like with the phone,
1:02:18you just put it in a pocket for a lot of the time,
1:02:21but I'm not gonna put my watch in a pocket,
1:02:22and I'm not looking for a pocket watch.
1:02:24I could have the screen get bigger,
1:02:26that you know, that would be nice.
1:02:27Just over time, just inch further and further
1:02:31to the edges of the display, you know, would be great.
1:02:34- Oh well that's true, but I don't want the watch
1:02:36to be bigger.
1:02:37- No, don't need that.
1:02:38Don't want it, don't need it.
1:02:39- Nope.
1:02:40Okie dokie, where are we now?
1:02:46So Matt, does activating Siri on the watch pause audio playback on your iPhone?
1:02:50No it does not.
1:02:51It does not.
1:02:52And it is the first time you do it, you don't know what the hell is happening.
1:02:55I was like, uh, what?
1:02:57Well it doesn't because it makes sense really, they are independent devices.
1:03:01Yeah, I was listening to a podcast on headphones and needed to say something to my watch and
1:03:07it was fine.
1:03:09Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, it kind of makes sense, kind of is also a bit confusing.
1:03:18This is from... I don't even... I don't even...
1:03:23Oh yeah, I don't even know... I'm not gonna say that.
1:03:28It's a spoiler actually for a sitcom. So we don't want to give that away.
1:03:34Robert is also a fake name. So, from a fake person.
1:03:38I know Apple Pay resets if you take the Apple Watch off.
1:03:41What if it slides up or down on your wrist, you have to keep it snug?
1:03:44So the idea being you have to like put in a pin or something sometimes?
1:03:49Explain that a little bit because I don't know about that so much.
1:03:52Because I don't have Apple Pay, so.
1:03:56Right, so well, all the concept of the watch being locked and unlocked, they want you to
1:04:00put a code into it.
1:04:02I discovered overnight after I wrote my story that actually once you put the watch on your
1:04:08wrist if you if you touch ID unlock your phone that unlocks you don't even have to put the
1:04:13code in on the watch that unlocks the watch the whole idea here is as long as it can verify
1:04:18somehow that it's you and then you keep the watch on then it's unlocked the watch stays
1:04:23unlocked the entire time you continue to wear it that's cool I have loosened it over time
1:04:31I wore it really snug the first day because I was afraid of like it's not gonna it's not
1:04:35gonna it's not gonna work it's gonna keep coming unpaired I've loosened it up
1:04:40now and I think I think it still works fine I I do wonder if the heart rate
1:04:45monitor requires a snug fit but the actual like lock concept doesn't I mean
1:04:52I suppose if it was like super loose it might be a problem but I've got it a
1:04:55comfortable tightness it's not super tight and it's it slides a little bit
1:05:01but not a lot and it works fine so I think there's some slack in it I think
1:05:04think that you could probably over loosen it to the point where it would want to lock.
1:05:08But generally they seem to have been pretty intelligent about making it kind of, you know,
1:05:14do the math about how it knows that it's still the same person wearing it, which I like.
1:05:19I really like that idea that it's a personal device and as long as it knows that it's still
1:05:24on your person, it knows who you are, it can trust. A phone can't trust, right? A phone
1:05:28can't trust that it's still in the hands of the person who owns it. But this watch can
1:05:32tell when it gets taken off.
1:05:34And until that moment, it knows that it's on that person
1:05:37that who put it on and authenticated.
1:05:41That's pretty cool.
1:05:43I like that.
1:05:43Also, Myke, did you notice that,
1:05:45related to both of these last two questions,
1:05:48when you're wearing the watch and you get a notification,
1:05:52it doesn't go to your phone and your watch.
1:05:54It just goes to your watch.
1:05:56The phone doesn't make the notification
1:05:58because the phone knows you're wearing the watch,
1:06:02which I kind of love. I kind of love that idea that it knows
1:06:05that it's redundant to ping,
1:06:07because it's not like you've got the watch in one place
1:06:09and the phone in the other and you happen to be near the phone.
1:06:11It's not like an iPad and an iPhone
1:06:13where it needs to let you know in both places
1:06:15because it doesn't know where you are.
1:06:16It knows that you've got the watch on,
1:06:18so it knows it should just notify you on your wrist.
1:06:21I think that's kind of cool.
1:06:22-I wish the Mac knew, though.
1:06:24-Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do. I do, too.
1:06:27I hope that there's some more proximity stuff
1:06:30coming at some point.
1:06:31I would love my Mac to know that I'm wearing the watch and to not worry about bugging me
1:06:35about things because I've got my watch on.
1:06:37That would be awesome.
1:06:39Maybe in OS X Death Valley.
1:06:41Yeah.
1:06:42Yeah, that would be nice.
1:06:45I would like the Mac to be more aware of the watch in some way because I feel like it works
1:06:53a bit better with the iPhone and the Mac, right?
1:06:56Like if I'm looking at something on my iPhone or I'm looking at something on my Mac, they
1:07:00don't, they don't, one bot doesn't buzz like with one, the other's being used but I don't
1:07:06know. I do not know. Okay, so from Mark, is there a way to get watch notifications only
1:07:12for messages from a specific person? I don't think there is.
1:07:16- No, wouldn't that be nice? I feel like that's gotta be, like bringing the concept of the
1:07:23VIP, the email VIP to your contacts to have a list of people that you can set.
1:07:30I think granular notifications would be a nice feature.
1:07:32I can see why it wouldn't be there at first because it's kind of a power user feature,
1:07:36but it would be nice to have more of that, you know, more granular settings for things
1:07:43like saying these people are the ones that I want you to let through.
1:07:47>>ANDREW it's like I just want to be notified about tweetbot DMs.
1:07:52I don't want anything else from Tweetbot, but you can't do that.
1:07:56Huh, interesting.
1:07:57You know, well because if I want them on my iPhone...
1:08:01Oh yeah, well that's true.
1:08:02You know, I want to be able to separate the two.
1:08:04I mean, notification management is just a big thing,
1:08:06and I genuinely feel like it's going to be one of the big things of iOS 9.
1:08:10I think it has to be.
1:08:11It just makes sense. It becomes low-hanging fruit now.
1:08:14Yeah.
1:08:15Schemen in the chat room, how's the battery life been? Jason?
1:08:18Great for me. I used it all day yesterday and at one in the morning I still was at like 50%.
1:08:26I haven't been that good but it has been really good for me too. So for example I woke up at like
1:08:32um I yesterday maybe was awake from like eight in the morning I went to sleep at
1:08:38um about oh no I went to sleep about three in the morning so I had a really really long day
1:08:43and it was 10% when I went to bed. Like that is great for me. That's as long as a day for me
1:08:48can go and it went the whole day and I'm playing with it you know I'm playing
1:08:53with it and I'm using it properly I'm the battery it's easily getting through
1:08:58any day for me at the moment so I'm more than happy with it because charging it
1:09:02at night is like whatever it's totally fine we have Benjamin and Jen have you
1:09:14used maps for driving directions is there lag to taps for turning left or
1:09:18Oh right, tap you soon enough.
1:09:19Have you used it for driving directions?
1:09:21- I haven't.
1:09:22- I've used it for walking directions.
1:09:24- And?
1:09:25- The taps are good, but I did find them to not,
1:09:28in all cases, not to necessarily be soon enough.
1:09:33- Huh.
1:09:34- So my feeling is, I don't,
1:09:36it's the same as I never use turn-by-turn directions.
1:09:40I just look at the map,
1:09:41and you can see the map at all times on your watch,
1:09:43which is perfectly good for what I need.
1:09:46You can basically see the route,
1:09:48you can zoom in and out of it.
1:09:49That's perfect for me, that's all I want.
1:09:51I don't need the taps or whatever when I'm walking.
1:09:55- Sometimes, I can see the value in the taps.
1:09:58If I'm in a strange location and I'm walking down the street
1:10:03just having that little extra note of like,
1:10:05yeah, go that way is a...
1:10:08I'm looking forward to trying it.
1:10:09I've been meaning to try it
1:10:10and I just haven't had a chance to try it yet.
1:10:13So, soon.
1:10:15Yeah, I'm just very happy.
1:10:21Maps was one of those things that walking around I just wasn't really looking forward
1:10:24to it.
1:10:25You know when you think, you know the device is coming so you think about it into the future.
1:10:30That was one of the things like, "Oh I can't wait until I have maps on my wrist."
1:10:33And I'm very happy that I do.
1:10:35Can the, this is from Josh, "Can the Apple Watch display notifications from apps without
1:10:39WatchKit extensions?"
1:10:41Yes they can.
1:10:43You see all of your notifications that you have on your phone, but if an app, if there
1:10:48is a WatchKit app, or whatever you would call it, or a glance or something, it's going to
1:10:52be way better with what it can do.
1:10:57But if a developer has taken into account notifications on iOS and they use the buttons
1:11:05or whatever, what are they called?
1:11:09You know what I'm talking about.
1:11:10if you get a mailbox one and you can archive it.
1:11:13Like they're the new actionable notifications.
1:11:16- Yeah.
1:11:17- On iOS.
1:11:18- Buttons.
1:11:18- They translate over to the Apple Watch and that's great.
1:11:21Like for me there's no mailbox app, but I don't need it.
1:11:24- Right.
1:11:25- I just need to say archive or set for tomorrow
1:11:28when an email comes in and I can do that, which is great.
1:11:30- Yeah, in the Apple Watch app there's a,
1:11:31under notifications there's a list of all of your apps
1:11:34and it says mirror iPhone alerts from,
1:11:36and then you can turn those on and off per app.
1:11:38And then those are just the standard iPhone notifications
1:11:41getting mirrored to your watch on an app by app basis.
1:11:44So I turn most of those off.
1:11:48- Yeah, I have most off and I'm turning more off.
1:11:52- Yeah. - There we go.
1:11:53From Chris, do you think Apple would ever do
1:11:57a C version of the watch like the iPhone,
1:12:00a lower tiered watch made of colorful plastic?
1:12:03I don't think so.
1:12:04I don't see it.
1:12:04I mean, you can never say for sure,
1:12:06but I think the sport is the low end
1:12:08and maybe in the future the sport might get a bit cheaper
1:12:11and there might be a bigger gap.
1:12:13But this thing has already got color all over it.
1:12:15Like it already feels like that line to me.
1:12:18- Yeah, I don't know.
1:12:20I mean, would Apple make a plastic watch eventually?
1:12:22Maybe just, but I think they want to make their intentions
1:12:26clear that this is, they want people to view this product
1:12:29as a high quality product,
1:12:31which is why there's no plastic watch.
1:12:33'Cause they could have done that, right?
1:12:33They could have said the sport is a polycarbonate,
1:12:36you know, sports watch and it's $1.99 or something like that, or $2.99.
1:12:42And they didn't.
1:12:44So I think that could happen, but my guess would be that, yeah, it would be the Apple
1:12:48Watch Sport would just get revised downward and maybe become plastic-y.
1:12:53But it would, you know, it could happen, but I wouldn't bet on it.
1:13:01And then we have one last question from Tom.
1:13:04Can you sync or transfer podcasts to your Apple Watch like you can music?
1:13:09I think the answer is no.
1:13:11Yeah, so I use Overcast and Overcast works.
1:13:13Yeah, but I think he's saying like transfer music, you can load music onto the watch and
1:13:19then like go running with just the watch and Bluetooth headphones and I think for that
1:13:23you have to have, it's only going to do music.
1:13:29I think it's not, I think podcasts are not available.
1:13:32- The only way you can do it is by going into iTunes
1:13:34and changing the metadata,
1:13:35but it's not gonna remember your sync position.
1:13:37But in theory, you could do it.
1:13:38You could tell iTunes it's a song, right?
1:13:40- Yeah, you tell a pod, that a podcast is a song
1:13:42and then put it in a sync playlist and do it that way.
1:13:46I did realize that I was looking,
1:13:48I was looking in an Apple Watch under general, about,
1:13:53and it had capacity 6.2 gigabytes available, 5.7 gigabytes.
1:13:58And I laughed because that's like way more
1:14:00than the original iPod.
1:14:04- Yeah.
1:14:05- So it's a thousand songs on your wrist.
1:14:07And I don't even want to put songs on it
1:14:09'cause I don't own a pair of Bluetooth headphones.
1:14:11So I actually, there's kind of no point,
1:14:15but that just is really funny that this is,
1:14:19it is an iPod on top of everything else.
1:14:22- It's funny to me that there are settings on the watch
1:14:29of any kind. Yeah, I mean, other than that, that, that glance that lets you put it in
1:14:34airplane mode and turn off alarms and do not disturb and find your iPhone, that's, that's
1:14:39sort of like the little simple settings. But, but beyond that, your iPhone is for that,
1:14:44I guess. And we do have, so that's kind of the end of Apple Watch. We're going to be
1:14:49talking about the Apple Watch a lot. Oh, man. I think it's good to keep it there for today.
1:14:53But we do have a couple of regular Ask Upgrade questions.
1:14:58So do you want to thank our Ask Upgrade sponsor for this week?
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1:16:25- I would, why would I want to write anything else?
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1:17:18I don't think we make enough of a deal of that.
1:17:20Ten percent off of account lifetime is awesome.
1:17:23That's really, really, really great.
1:17:24You know, some of the deals we read are very much like, you know, you get a percentage
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1:17:29Which is nice.
1:17:30And if you're already a customer, some of those deals don't work.
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1:17:38Pretty awesome.
1:17:39Don't get a lot of that.
1:17:41that we have it. So should we take the show out of a couple of our favorites, a couple
1:17:47of our upgrades?
1:17:48Yeah, I think so.
1:17:49Eric, glad you were able to bring up the Samantha Cristoforetti tweet on Upgrade. Can you remind
1:17:56people?
1:17:57This is the astronaut who took a picture of herself wearing a Star Trek Voyager costume,
1:18:01talking about how they were delivering the first zero-gravity espresso machine to the
1:18:08International Space Station, and she's Italian, so she especially, like Federica, wants her
1:18:12espresso.
1:18:13But upgrading, and Eric points out, she's actually quoting, that tweet quotes an actual
1:18:17line from an actual episode of Star Trek Voyager.
1:18:21So it's a high level of Star Trek Voyager analysis.
1:18:24I'm sure somewhere, Brianna Wu is very excited to hear this, because she loves Captain Janeway
1:18:28and she loves Star Trek Voyager.
1:18:30But I just love that there was a Star Trek outfit.
1:18:32Some people will argue that because it's a Star Trek Voyager outfit that has extra meaning
1:18:37to the astronaut, perhaps it does, to the, you know, what the best Star Trek show is,
1:18:42perhaps it doesn't. But I think it still is a super cool geek moment and I appreciate
1:18:50Upgrady and Eric for pointing out that that's, even the tweet is a Star Trek Voyager reference,
1:18:56not just the uniform.
1:18:57Yeah, so that's pretty cool.
1:19:00Yeah.
1:19:01That's lost on me, but I can imagine for people that like that kind of thing. Hooray.
1:19:05- Yeah, well, I mean, the idea that there's a real astronaut in real outer space who's
1:19:09wearing a Star Trek uniform, that's funny.
1:19:12That is pretty funny.
1:19:14That's pretty cool.
1:19:15Yeah, there is apparently an episode of "Star Trek Voyager" where they really get upset
1:19:18about not having coffee.
1:19:21- And then from, wow, an upgradician.
1:19:24- Yes, Bobby--
1:19:25- I thought we were finished with this.
1:19:28- Bobby has decided to decree that he is himself an upgradician.
1:19:33So okay, Bobby.
1:19:34whatever you need sir. I was wondering for many years why Apple does not
1:19:39provide any method to charge an iOS device from another iOS device. Like for
1:19:44example maybe your, you know as Bobby says, your wife's phone is at 10% and you
1:19:49want to just provide a bit of extra juice but can't. Jason, what do you think
1:19:53about this? My guess is that there's something about how lightning works that
1:20:01I mean, these phones don't—they can power, like, very, very low-power devices, but I'm
1:20:09not sure that's the same as charging another device, right?
1:20:12You can plug in some USB microphones to them through an adapter, and they'll work, and
1:20:16others, they won't.
1:20:19So my guess is that they're just not made to put out the level of power that a battery
1:20:24pack would, you know, essentially do.
1:20:28But I think it's a really clever idea.
1:20:30It would be nice.
1:20:31be nice if you could plug your iPad into your iPhone if you were really desperate
1:20:34to keep your iPhone alive. But I am not an electrical engineer but my
1:20:39guess is that the amount of power that's being able to be sent across a lightning
1:20:43cable from an iPhone or an iPad is not big enough for it to be, you know,
1:20:49to make a big difference. It's a nice idea though.
1:20:53So then the last one today, Justin also mentioned, will there be an upgrade
1:20:59t-shirt? I mean we have a clockwise t-shirt now, will there be an upgrade t-shirt?
1:21:02Will there, Myke? There most certainly can be. There's nothing to stop us doing one
1:21:08except for a couple of things. We need to design, but we can do that. And then we
1:21:15just need to decide, do we want to give people more t-shirts right now? Because
1:21:19it's, you know, it's one of those things we can decide, do we want to do this
1:21:22before WWDC. If we do, we have limited time. And if we want to do that, then there's already
1:21:29a million t-shirts out right now. Do people want to be spending more on t-shirts? I haven't
1:21:32got an answer, Jason, is my feeling on this. I don't know what to think about it.
1:21:37- Yeah, I don't either. I would love... There will, I think, definitely be an upgraded t-shirt.
1:21:42I think the question is when. I definitely... I hear from people who say, "I have too many
1:21:45t-shirts." I hear that. There are limited things that we can do. T-shirts are fairly
1:21:51easily shippable and easily makeable and it is truly in the technology industry tradition
1:21:55to make a t-shirt.
1:21:56And we always have stickers, we have stickers in our relay store and you can grab those
1:21:59at any time.
1:22:01I just don't know if, one if we need to do another t-shirt and two if it needs to be
1:22:06right now.
1:22:07I mean I would love, I want there to be an upgrade t-shirt, but I don't know, I don't
1:22:14know.
1:22:15You get it right?
1:22:16I'm just not sure if we need to have,
1:22:19I don't know if I need another t-shirt right now,
1:22:22though I'm buying them all, that's the thing,
1:22:24I'll buy them all.
1:22:24(laughing)
1:22:25We have an isometric t-shirt, I bought that.
1:22:26Clockwise, I bought that.
1:22:28Connected, I bought that.
1:22:29And I would like there to be one,
1:22:30I just don't know if people want it.
1:22:33And also, like these things,
1:22:34let me just be completely upfront with it,
1:22:36we wanna make as much money as we can
1:22:38when we do something like this.
1:22:40And I personally don't know if it's right to do it now
1:22:42because people want it for WWDC,
1:22:44or do it later when it's not t-shirt Armageddon.
1:22:47- Yeah, yeah, plus we have to have a good idea.
1:22:50- Yeah, I mean, well, we don't,
1:22:52we just get Frank to do it and, you know,
1:22:54he'll just make us a great t-shirt
1:22:55because that's what he does.
1:22:57So we don't even need to worry about the idea,
1:22:59but it's just the timing, that's all it is.
1:23:03- So, Justin, this is your answer is,
1:23:05we think there will be one sometime,
1:23:07we don't know when it will be, it might not be now.
1:23:10- I say there definitely will be one.
1:23:11- Yeah.
1:23:12But now it's just a case of timing.
1:23:16Because if we wanna do it before WWDC,
1:23:18it needs to be soon.
1:23:21I mean, I've thought about things like hoodies
1:23:23and stuff like that.
1:23:25And I quite like the idea,
1:23:27in case you might hate me for saying this,
1:23:28I quite like the idea of an analog hoodie.
1:23:30Because I feel like it, you know,
1:23:34wrapped up in feelings.
1:23:36- Hoodie is my uniform too.
1:23:37I would love an upgrade hoodie.
1:23:39That's a great idea.
1:23:40Maybe we should do that.
1:23:41then people are gonna be really angry.
1:23:42They're like, "I don't wear hoodies."
1:23:44Somebody's always, you know,
1:23:46there are people about the Clockwise T-shirt
1:23:47who are just saying, "I don't wanna wear a yellow T-shirt."
1:23:50It's like, well, okay.
1:23:50Some people don't wanna wear a gray T-shirt.
1:23:52So, you know, some people don't wanna wear a black T-shirt
1:23:56and other people do.
1:23:57So it's difficult because everybody's got opinions,
1:23:59but we'll work on it.
1:24:01- Yeah. - We'll do something.
1:24:02There'll be something sometime.
1:24:04It may not be before WWDC.
1:24:06I feel like we're at the, you know,
1:24:09we're at peak T-shirt right now.
1:24:10I was working on that clockwise t-shirt design for ages,
1:24:14and we finally pulled the trigger on that one, I think.
1:24:17We'll talk about it.
1:24:18- Yeah, maybe we could do trousers.
1:24:21'Cause everyone takes care of the top half.
1:24:24No one's looking after the bottom half.
1:24:25- I think that should be a Bonanza special.
1:24:27(laughing)
1:24:30- Excellent, right, I think that about wraps up
1:24:31this week's episode of Upgrade.
1:24:33If you wanna catch our show notes this week,
1:24:34don't forget to check in your app of choice
1:24:36go to relay.fm/upgrades/34. Thanks again to our sponsors this week, the great people
1:24:43at GoToMeeting from Citrix, also Hover and MailRoute of course. You'll find us online,
1:24:49there's a couple of ways you can do that. We're at @jsnell, J S N E double L is where
1:24:54you'll find Jason and I am at @imike, I M Y K E and if you want to find Jason's great
1:25:00writing, he is over at sixcolors.com. We'll be back next time with another episode of
1:25:06upgrade. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.
1:25:08Goodbye, Mark Hurley.
1:25:10[MUSIC PLAYING]
1:25:13[ Music ]