The Incomparable

330: Team Killer Robot


00:00:00   they in turn purple number 330 December [TS]

00:00:08   2016 welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:12   uncomfortable i'm your host Jason Steele [TS]

00:00:14   we are taking we're gonna be really [TS]

00:00:15   timely this time and talk about a show [TS]

00:00:17   that just finished its first season this [TS]

00:00:19   very week as we record this [TS]

00:00:21   in fact it's just only been a day we're [TS]

00:00:23   recording this early in the week it is [TS]

00:00:25   westworld season one on HBO which we've [TS]

00:00:28   been following rapidly and now I've [TS]

00:00:30   convened a panel to talk about the first [TS]

00:00:31   10 episodes that have just spooled out [TS]

00:00:34   here on HBO [TS]

00:00:35   joining me to talk about westworld are [TS]

00:00:37   some familiar faces and some old friends [TS]

00:00:41   and some new friends [TS]

00:00:42   so let me introduce them to you Glenn [TS]

00:00:44   fleischmann uh an old enemy from the [TS]

00:00:47   past high Glen Jason you don't look like [TS]

00:00:50   anything to me [TS]

00:00:51   funny that's weird John Syracuse's also [TS]

00:00:55   here probably a human you know Jason [TS]

00:00:58   some people choose to see the ugliness [TS]

00:00:59   podcast Tony solara skechers Tony how [TS]

00:01:04   many nerds [TS]

00:01:05   oh nice Nathan alderman is back with us [TS]

00:01:08   a veteran TV and and and even the [TS]

00:01:12   incomparable I think contributor on his [TS]

00:01:15   second episode i think with us hi Nathan [TS]

00:01:17   hello Jason you make a terrible human [TS]

00:01:19   being and I mean that as a compliment [TS]

00:01:21   very nice and I would be remiss if I did [TS]

00:01:24   not introduce the other two members of [TS]

00:01:25   our panel because you could introduce [TS]

00:01:27   everybody but they are the co-host of [TS]

00:01:30   our own TV podcasts special westworld [TS]

00:01:33   segment it is [TS]

00:01:35   greetings from the uncanny valley Kelly [TS]

00:01:37   amant is here I Kelly how do battery and [TS]

00:01:40   Don melton shall we drink to the lady [TS]

00:01:43   with the white shoes reference [TS]

00:01:46   acknowledged that's what if you want to [TS]

00:01:49   dive deep in there are many westworld [TS]

00:01:51   podcast but i would say the one that you [TS]

00:01:53   really should be listening to is kelly [TS]

00:01:55   and Don's podcast because it's great and [TS]

00:01:58   you'll hear them talk about all sorts of [TS]

00:02:00   theories and interesting things is gonna [TS]

00:02:01   be kind of like a high-level overview [TS]

00:02:02   now that the season is over sort of [TS]

00:02:04   looking at it and not so much with the [TS]

00:02:06   theorizing so maybe we'll talk a little [TS]

00:02:08   bit at the end of that season two but [TS]

00:02:10   about sort of how this [TS]

00:02:13   how the show works so it's fascinating [TS]

00:02:15   because this is a a TV series based on a [TS]

00:02:17   movie from 1973 that was written and [TS]

00:02:20   directed by michael crichton and it [TS]

00:02:22   famously started your Brenner as a man [TS]

00:02:26   in black but also a robot and and this [TS]

00:02:30   is a guy I when I heard they were doing [TS]

00:02:32   this is a series i was a little bit [TS]

00:02:34   skeptical Osik I you know [TS]

00:02:35   westworld the kind of cheesy seventies [TS]

00:02:37   killer robots movie but you know the i [TS]

00:02:41   was impressed with had the execution [TS]

00:02:44   from the very beginning it they spent a [TS]

00:02:46   lot of money on it there's a lot of [TS]

00:02:48   fantastic actors in it and I I [TS]

00:02:51   appreciated that they give they had 10 [TS]

00:02:53   hours to tell this story and so didn't [TS]

00:02:56   like jump to the killer robots in the [TS]

00:02:58   first episode which i think i think was [TS]

00:03:00   nice so let's start there what was [TS]

00:03:03   everybody's uh if you got anything to [TS]

00:03:04   say about sort of expectations going in [TS]

00:03:06   about what you what you really thought [TS]

00:03:07   you would find in West world i think [TS]

00:03:08   that might be a good place to start [TS]

00:03:10   how many of you actually saw the movie [TS]

00:03:11   in the theaters just are interested in [TS]

00:03:15   the ancient everyone here done i think [TS]

00:03:17   you're getting some math there and yeah [TS]

00:03:19   you know right I didn't see the movie [TS]

00:03:21   when I was a child on the television [TS]

00:03:23   device as did i [TS]

00:03:25   yeah and so I i had i thought oh my god [TS]

00:03:29   they're gonna make that into it [TS]

00:03:31   TV show and so my expectations were solo [TS]

00:03:34   which is probably why i love the show i [TS]

00:03:37   remember reading the book as a child but [TS]

00:03:40   I never like I saw the movie on TV in a [TS]

00:03:43   couple of times and honestly my frame of [TS]

00:03:46   reference for this was the Simpsons [TS]

00:03:48   episode where they go to mark where [TS]

00:03:50   there's a bunch of robots mm systemic [TS]

00:03:53   you [TS]

00:03:54   yeah so I sort of remember it from that [TS]

00:03:56   and going and oh yeah right they were [TS]

00:03:59   making fun of that movie that starred [TS]

00:04:00   yul brenner that I remember watching [TS]

00:04:02   like on a you know on a Sunday when it [TS]

00:04:05   was raining on the channel that showed [TS]

00:04:07   old movies on days when it rained in I [TS]

00:04:09   don't remember the movie very vividly [TS]

00:04:12   but I remember being interested as I [TS]

00:04:14   heard the names of the people involved [TS]

00:04:17   regardless of what it was that they were [TS]

00:04:19   going to do my expectation was a certain [TS]

00:04:23   level just based on [TS]

00:04:25   it's least enjoy its Jonathan Nolan but [TS]

00:04:29   i'm anthony hopkins in it so like all of [TS]

00:04:33   those things all of the you know sandy [TS]

00:04:35   news in it all of these people that I [TS]

00:04:37   heard were in it [TS]

00:04:38   I sort of raised those expectations [TS]

00:04:41   another notch and another notch like [TS]

00:04:43   whatever the story is that they're [TS]

00:04:44   telling it's going to be really [TS]

00:04:45   interesting just based on the writers [TS]

00:04:48   and actors and what I know of the people [TS]

00:04:50   of those people now that they're [TS]

00:04:52   committed to it i don't think i saw the [TS]

00:04:54   movie maybe I saw bits and pieces of it [TS]

00:04:56   I kind of vaguely knew the premise I [TS]

00:04:58   think the only reason i watched it was [TS]

00:04:59   basically just on pedigree you know I [TS]

00:05:01   like the actors and the fact that is an [TS]

00:05:03   HBO show and it looked like it was gonna [TS]

00:05:05   have a big budget come and when I [TS]

00:05:07   watched the first episode like they [TS]

00:05:08   dumped the dump the whole premise on you [TS]

00:05:10   like it was so clear for episode 1 that [TS]

00:05:13   whatever whatever big notions I had of [TS]

00:05:14   the premise this wasn't going to be show [TS]

00:05:16   we're like you eventually find out that [TS]

00:05:18   they're robots it's like within 10 [TS]

00:05:19   minutes like that have an actual [TS]

00:05:21   voiceover saying here's the deal [TS]

00:05:23   this park is the people use the rules [TS]

00:05:25   all Bamako alright well that settles [TS]

00:05:27   that I was like this is I guess this [TS]

00:05:29   isn't going to be a show with a lot of [TS]

00:05:30   reveals I thought so we summer child [TS]

00:05:36   yeah I kind of thought I i saw what they [TS]

00:05:38   were going with it by the end of episode [TS]

00:05:40   one from like but they just dump it [TS]

00:05:41   dumped all the things that I didn't know [TS]

00:05:43   about westworld they dumped them in [TS]

00:05:45   episode 1 and then moved on to all the [TS]

00:05:48   things that I guess none of us knew [TS]

00:05:49   about West because I guess if you'd seen [TS]

00:05:50   the movie like a West theme Bart robots [TS]

00:05:53   kill humans whatever I mean obviously [TS]

00:05:55   doing it to human killing part but it [TS]

00:05:57   doesn't slide died John oh my yeah they [TS]

00:06:02   spent ten episodes and they didn't [TS]

00:06:03   really get to the human killing until [TS]

00:06:05   the very very end so we had an entire [TS]

00:06:07   season of television of this show [TS]

00:06:09   telling its story which was not the [TS]

00:06:11   story of the movie because i'm assuming [TS]

00:06:13   the story of the movie like you know [TS]

00:06:15   that the premises of episode one I was [TS]

00:06:17   looking forward to a reboot because but [TS]

00:06:19   i didn't think i was like i thought it's [TS]

00:06:21   an interesting topic will be seen it [TS]

00:06:23   explored in so many things you know from [TS]

00:06:25   data and start track 2 million other [TS]

00:06:27   movies whatever is like will artificial [TS]

00:06:29   life gain something you know advantage [TS]

00:06:32   on us and i do not have HBO or did not [TS]

00:06:34   happen HBO subscription [TS]

00:06:36   and uh I think you're because it was on [TS]

00:06:38   HBO is like well it's probably like just [TS]

00:06:40   red wedding every episode scream bloody [TS]

00:06:42   gore and violence [TS]

00:06:43   see all you know basic human emotions [TS]

00:06:46   explored and you know looking at the [TS]

00:06:48   actors are like well this could be good [TS]

00:06:49   but and then I think by episode three or [TS]

00:06:53   four at the latest update people were [TS]

00:06:56   raving about this being something very [TS]

00:06:58   interesting and different than what they [TS]

00:06:59   expected including people I respect [TS]

00:07:01   Jason that includes you [TS]

00:07:03   hi and that's all my god i want me to go [TS]

00:07:06   ahead without dancing and anyway but I [TS]

00:07:09   so i actually had HBO now a subscription [TS]

00:07:12   in order to watch the show so I i bake [TS]

00:07:15   an additional cash money without with [TS]

00:07:18   the expectation that it was probably [TS]

00:07:19   going to be something unexpected and [TS]

00:07:22   terrific and I had my expectations [TS]

00:07:24   rewarded [TS]

00:07:25   I think I knew almost nothing I've been [TS]

00:07:28   really busy the last couple months and [TS]

00:07:29   keeps showing up for stuff and it's like [TS]

00:07:31   I don't know anything about this you [TS]

00:07:32   know what it's like it's working out [TS]

00:07:34   great didn't know anything about a rifle [TS]

00:07:35   i think basically i was told yet so i [TS]

00:07:37   got jurassic park but with robot Cowboys [TS]

00:07:39   check it out and that were worked out [TS]

00:07:42   great hero your are you a host you can [TS]

00:07:44   bring up with any memory of things [TS]

00:07:46   oh he's in a reverie now coach got [TS]

00:07:49   locked in there Jason is the homes i am [TS]

00:07:51   the host you were the panel is this it [TS]

00:07:54   should be obvious by now but i'm going [TS]

00:07:55   to officially below the spoiler horn [TS]

00:07:57   right here because yeah we're talking [TS]

00:07:59   about westworld season one the whole [TS]

00:08:01   thing if you haven't watched it and [TS]

00:08:02   don't wanna be spoiled why are you [TS]

00:08:03   listening to this podcast [TS]

00:08:04   [Music] [TS]

00:08:09   boiler alert some of the characters are [TS]

00:08:11   robots [TS]

00:08:12   yeah there are robots and and kill all [TS]

00:08:14   humans is a thing that can happen with [TS]

00:08:16   robots sometimes it happens who knows [TS]

00:08:18   well now that somebody's brought up [TS]

00:08:20   jurassic park i just want to point out [TS]

00:08:21   like this was sort of jurassic park 1 [TS]

00:08:24   point 0 if you think about it where [TS]

00:08:25   somebody goes and build something great [TS]

00:08:27   and then the thing that they built as [TS]

00:08:30   like entertainment and fun turned on [TS]

00:08:32   them and that that just got refined with [TS]

00:08:35   dinosaurs in Jurassic Park not too many [TS]

00:08:37   years after this if my michael crichton [TS]

00:08:40   timeline is correct [TS]

00:08:41   I didn't I'd forgotten written westworld [TS]

00:08:43   until the series came out and actually [TS]

00:08:44   looked at our saw in the credits like oh [TS]

00:08:46   yeah this is another iteration of the [TS]

00:08:48   same idea from him it's exactly the same [TS]

00:08:50   and several people in the chat room are [TS]

00:08:52   pointing out michael crichton clearly [TS]

00:08:53   got left behind by his parents at an [TS]

00:08:55   amusement park when he was a created [TS]

00:08:56   something has issues here there are [TS]

00:08:59   issues that experience with carnies yeah [TS]

00:09:01   early script for like a rollercoaster [TS]

00:09:03   eats people and it's just no one would [TS]

00:09:04   make that show how statement about ya [TS]

00:09:06   and killer klowns he did that too [TS]

00:09:08   so this is what worries me about HBO [TS]

00:09:11   doing this show was i I was just [TS]

00:09:14   crossing my fingers hoping maybe go past [TS]

00:09:17   Crichton's themes because Crichton [TS]

00:09:19   didn't really have a lot of themes other [TS]

00:09:21   than you know something goes wrong and [TS]

00:09:24   our about the robots they'll kill you [TS]

00:09:26   life will find a way LOL robots [TS]

00:09:28   dinosaurs it's the same thing right for [TS]

00:09:31   death he also doesn't and it's like well [TS]

00:09:33   that's pretty boring I think I've i [TS]

00:09:36   think i've seen that show and I was so [TS]

00:09:38   blown away when i watch the first [TS]

00:09:40   episode I was like okay we're done to [TS]

00:09:44   remember in the movie there is no reason [TS]

00:09:46   express just all the sudden robot [TS]

00:09:48   something happens and they just start [TS]

00:09:49   killing everybody there's no real like [TS]

00:09:51   there's not even not even the [TS]

00:09:52   consciousness thing but it's not even [TS]

00:09:54   like sabotage is like oh these things [TS]

00:09:56   are so complex that eventually will [TS]

00:09:58   break down and kill everyone [TS]

00:09:59   it's actually realistic depiction of [TS]

00:10:01   software that's almost more legitimate [TS]

00:10:04   but let's see now it's my whole career [TS]

00:10:06   right there there's so much of the first [TS]

00:10:08   episode that you start to think what is [TS]

00:10:10   the show going to be about because at [TS]

00:10:12   times I thought this is this is a show [TS]

00:10:15   that is about what it means to be human [TS]

00:10:18   there are times when I think that the [TS]

00:10:20   show is about sort of slavery [TS]

00:10:22   and.and which is a common theme actually [TS]

00:10:25   in in robot sort of stories about sort [TS]

00:10:28   of like whatever point are they are they [TS]

00:10:30   alive and are you in slaving them and [TS]

00:10:34   then it'll at another point I thought [TS]

00:10:35   this is entirely a show about [TS]

00:10:37   storytelling and and everything in it [TS]

00:10:40   because you know they are creating this [TS]

00:10:42   experience in West world and one of the [TS]

00:10:44   characters is the annoying british [TS]

00:10:46   writer who you know is really super [TS]

00:10:49   annoying but to the point where i got [TS]

00:10:50   annoyed by him and then as time went on [TS]

00:10:52   I kind of went through the other side to [TS]

00:10:53   being enjoying how annoying he was yeah [TS]

00:10:56   and and then of course forward Anthony [TS]

00:10:58   Hopkins who is working on his new [TS]

00:11:00   narrative and there's this whole [TS]

00:11:01   question of like we are we are trying to [TS]

00:11:05   identify with the characters were seeing [TS]

00:11:07   but at the same time we're we're very [TS]

00:11:09   obviously watching characters tell going [TS]

00:11:13   through a story not just like the show [TS]

00:11:15   we're watching but inside that they're [TS]

00:11:17   there is were asked to empathize with [TS]

00:11:19   these robots but a lot of what we're [TS]

00:11:21   given by from them is programming it's [TS]

00:11:25   there it's dead them going through the [TS]

00:11:27   script and that dishes so it has all [TS]

00:11:30   these different levels there and um [TS]

00:11:32   which leads me to my first question for [TS]

00:11:33   everybody here which is what do you [TS]

00:11:34   think about I've heard a lot of people [TS]

00:11:36   say that West world is problematic [TS]

00:11:38   because they don't they don't feel like [TS]

00:11:41   they have a connection to the hosts [TS]

00:11:43   because they're artificial and they're [TS]

00:11:46   just following a script what knows that [TS]

00:11:49   how well that's kind of what kind of [TS]

00:11:51   monsters say that yeah I had more [TS]

00:11:53   connection to the host and i had to the [TS]

00:11:54   human characters nearly all of the human [TS]

00:11:56   characters are super super terrible [TS]

00:11:58   their selfish scheming horrible lousy [TS]

00:12:01   people [TS]

00:12:02   the hosts are sweet and kind and are at [TS]

00:12:04   least trying to do something well [TS]

00:12:06   somehow something that someone some more [TS]

00:12:08   than others that the first episode of [TS]

00:12:10   the show though like was entirely from [TS]

00:12:12   the host perspective like that was that [TS]

00:12:14   was my you know right i'm coming this is [TS]

00:12:16   going to show my robots eventually [TS]

00:12:17   they're going to go wrong you know [TS]

00:12:19   yada yada but the first episode that the [TS]

00:12:21   pilot is everything about it firm [TS]

00:12:24   yeah it is from the perspective of the [TS]

00:12:26   host even when they the show does Little [TS]

00:12:28   Miss direct and you know as you look at [TS]

00:12:30   eddie when they talk about [TS]

00:12:31   newcomers like maybe he's a newcomer [TS]

00:12:32   know he's always to everybody in that [TS]

00:12:34   they keep showing you the host the host [TS]

00:12:35   day the host patterns going to these [TS]

00:12:36   things [TS]

00:12:37   how can you not like the show is telling [TS]

00:12:39   you you need to understand what it's [TS]

00:12:42   like to be a host your main characters [TS]

00:12:44   are basically host and everyone you see [TS]

00:12:46   it looks like an antagonist is a human [TS]

00:12:48   and ministers episode one that you know [TS]

00:12:49   obviously the humans come into it more [TS]

00:12:51   as they go on but from the get go right [TS]

00:12:54   out the door like Oh instead of this [TS]

00:12:55   being a show about like Jurassic Park [TS]

00:12:57   was about humans that have not been no [TS]

00:12:58   in a park and the dinosaurs are the [TS]

00:13:00   threat that's a problem and they resolve [TS]

00:13:01   it [TS]

00:13:01   spoilers gonna be a human humans parking [TS]

00:13:04   threats but you're not pathetic towards [TS]

00:13:06   the dinosaurs your point [TS]

00:13:08   yeah it looks like they get into a [TS]

00:13:10   situation where you're like oh our [TS]

00:13:11   heroes are in danger because the thing [TS]

00:13:13   that man has made has gone wrong and [TS]

00:13:15   this one it's over hosts are in danger [TS]

00:13:17   because they have been made [TS]

00:13:18   that's what I loved about the first [TS]

00:13:20   episode they flipped the script on [TS]

00:13:21   Crichton the original story thank God on [TS]

00:13:24   craigs original story the man in black [TS]

00:13:25   is a robot menacing humans you realize [TS]

00:13:28   as you watch the first episode of the [TS]

00:13:29   series that this is a show about robots [TS]

00:13:31   fighting for their lives against humans [TS]

00:13:33   who are terrorizing that and the man in [TS]

00:13:35   black is a he literally is a human [TS]

00:13:37   terrorizing robots in from the very [TS]

00:13:39   start [TS]

00:13:40   they set up all these wonderful [TS]

00:13:40   misdirections to that play out some it [TS]

00:13:43   takes until episode 10 to do that we [TS]

00:13:45   assume the man in black is like a [TS]

00:13:46   perverted sadistic rapist which is true [TS]

00:13:49   in part but not what we see what we [TS]

00:13:52   think he's doing to dolores we don't [TS]

00:13:55   actually know what he does in that bar [TS]

00:13:56   we don't know what the conversation is [TS]

00:13:57   or what his behavior is because it's [TS]

00:14:00   unclear what he wants out of her at that [TS]

00:14:02   point in his history but there's like so [TS]

00:14:06   many things into the referees the [TS]

00:14:08   discussion of robberies which takes [TS]

00:14:09   these sort of an arc across the whole [TS]

00:14:11   thing coding errors the the Shakespeare [TS]

00:14:15   being quoted app the father being [TS]

00:14:18   replaced kind of showing the fact that [TS]

00:14:20   even though the hosts have attachments [TS]

00:14:22   to other people that are clear sort of [TS]

00:14:23   arise that sets the tone for what [TS]

00:14:25   happens with made in clinton time later [TS]

00:14:27   it's pretty even the photograph the [TS]

00:14:30   photograph showing up i forgot it was in [TS]

00:14:31   episode one I was just looking at the [TS]

00:14:33   the rundown and that photograph them [TS]

00:14:34   becomes you know an arc 2 episode 9 well [TS]

00:14:37   in the thing that I remember is that [TS]

00:14:38   when we were when John and I were [TS]

00:14:40   recording our first episode because we [TS]

00:14:42   didn't get off the ground until halfway [TS]

00:14:43   through [TS]

00:14:44   the season airing so in our first [TS]

00:14:47   episode when we were talking about [TS]

00:14:49   episode about westworld episodes one [TS]

00:14:51   through five one of the things i said at [TS]

00:14:54   that moment in episode five of those [TS]

00:14:56   days [TS]

00:14:57   remember those days i said here's the [TS]

00:14:59   thing about this show is that the only [TS]

00:15:01   characters i care about the only [TS]

00:15:03   characters i care for the only ones I'm [TS]

00:15:05   invested in our the house except for [TS]

00:15:08   Bernard haha oh yes I said it I said it [TS]

00:15:11   out loud and everything Kelly argue with [TS]

00:15:13   you because the the the other the one [TS]

00:15:15   human character i had empathy with who [TS]

00:15:17   turns out is probably human was Ford [TS]

00:15:21   because I can sort of understand the [TS]

00:15:24   creator's point of view at the time we [TS]

00:15:26   weren't sure whether you know he was the [TS]

00:15:31   kind grandfatherly guy or yeah like you [TS]

00:15:35   got a victor frankenstein coming up [TS]

00:15:37   right and it turned out he was pretty [TS]

00:15:39   much both yes yes he was he was both [TS]

00:15:42   it's so funny that you know when you [TS]

00:15:44   think about 135 we haven't seen a whole [TS]

00:15:46   heck of a lot from him as far as like [TS]

00:15:49   intent and anything that you could [TS]

00:15:53   clearly point and go yeah see he's a bad [TS]

00:15:55   guy or yeah he's a good guy but there [TS]

00:15:58   really wasn't a lot for as much it was [TS]

00:16:00   it was funny to me as I started like [TS]

00:16:02   looking at stuff later that he was [TS]

00:16:04   always wearing black and white and so it [TS]

00:16:08   was one of those things where like you [TS]

00:16:10   couldn't really tell so at that moment [TS]

00:16:11   we still didn't really know so yeah Dawn [TS]

00:16:13   was like I sympathize he's a creator [TS]

00:16:16   I know how that goes i can see sort of [TS]

00:16:18   standing in those shoes and then we get [TS]

00:16:21   to the infamous episode 7 and it turns [TS]

00:16:25   out I was right I was really only simply [TS]

00:16:27   speak with the and at that point you [TS]

00:16:30   know it's only been two episodes later [TS]

00:16:32   and we're all like oh yeah for it is so [TS]

00:16:36   terrible and then you know from there [TS]

00:16:38   like just in the second half of the [TS]

00:16:40   season the journey that you go on as a [TS]

00:16:42   viewer with what you feel about ford in [TS]

00:16:47   those last five episodes the back five [TS]

00:16:49   is intense and the thing that I really [TS]

00:16:52   liked about unwrapping this show there [TS]

00:16:55   was a fair amount of payoff for [TS]

00:16:56   everything but [TS]

00:16:57   every payoff gave me eight more [TS]

00:16:59   questions you know or 12 more questions [TS]

00:17:01   and so I wanted to watch again and watch [TS]

00:17:04   the more the twisting the payoff right [TS]

00:17:06   yeah the thing we call recording on our [TS]

00:17:08   show was we got Noland again and that [TS]

00:17:11   was certainly true of episode 10 [TS]

00:17:13   ya know we have sympathy for LC and [TS]

00:17:15   Stubbs I thought they establish them not [TS]

00:17:17   is entirely sympathetic but they didn't [TS]

00:17:19   seem purely awful Stubbs was the cynical [TS]

00:17:23   guy who kind of kept an eye on the host [TS]

00:17:25   and we knew that he was advisable [TS]

00:17:27   because watching that was advisable [TS]

00:17:28   watching westworld we know stubs will [TS]

00:17:30   eventually be proven right right like he [TS]

00:17:32   was right [TS]

00:17:32   oh yeah they are dangerous and he [TS]

00:17:34   treated them like dangerous animals like [TS]

00:17:36   he was in a Jurassic Park and everyone [TS]

00:17:38   else and his staff did that other [TS]

00:17:39   incredible shots turns out they went to [TS]

00:17:41   the Stormtrooper school of marksmanship [TS]

00:17:43   they have not had a live-fire episode 01 [TS]

00:17:45   a long time they're real rusty LLC I [TS]

00:17:48   found sympathetic although creepy like [TS]

00:17:50   you thought oh this is somebody who sort [TS]

00:17:52   of enjoy your job gets it isn't [TS]

00:17:54   dehumanizing and then it's kind of like [TS]

00:17:55   oh maybe she's alright maybe she [TS]

00:17:58   whatever but I didn't feel like I feel [TS]

00:17:59   like they invested both those characters [TS]

00:18:01   and kind of dropped them along the way I [TS]

00:18:03   think the reason you didn't empathize [TS]

00:18:04   with the humans is because the humans to [TS]

00:18:07   the way i mean it's it's own thing as an [TS]

00:18:08   accident i think the way that the show [TS]

00:18:10   is presented for the human characters [TS]

00:18:13   with the exception of Bernard haha you [TS]

00:18:16   never you never got to see essentially [TS]

00:18:18   they're cornerstone they had all these [TS]

00:18:20   scenes of the host thinking back to [TS]

00:18:22   pivotal moments in their past life [TS]

00:18:24   whether our Creator briefly glimpsed are [TS]

00:18:26   understood or just reflecting the hosts [TS]

00:18:30   are always reflecting on things even [TS]

00:18:31   when we just saw the hosts going through [TS]

00:18:32   loops it's like that we would imagine [TS]

00:18:33   they're reflecting on their past time [TS]

00:18:35   through the loop or whatever humans are [TS]

00:18:37   always doing something in the moment and [TS]

00:18:39   you were never seen like you never got [TS]

00:18:40   to see into the humans called surely you [TS]

00:18:42   know Elsie has a cornerstone or an [TS]

00:18:44   equivalent like to do with all [TS]

00:18:45   characters on television but you only [TS]

00:18:47   ever saw in the moment doing a thing it [TS]

00:18:48   was fun she's on an adventure to salute [TS]

00:18:50   she's trying to figure stuff out she's [TS]

00:18:51   got spunk know she's she is a she is a [TS]

00:18:55   skeptical when other people are trusting [TS]

00:18:57   she doesn't really trust what Ford is [TS]

00:18:59   doing well as Bernard seems for some [TS]

00:19:00   strange reason to be you know pretty [TS]

00:19:02   obedient to forward right and so we root [TS]

00:19:04   for her but she's like a character on [TS]

00:19:07   like you know i don't know like when [TS]

00:19:08   NCIS or something right [TS]

00:19:10   they have plot points that they go [TS]

00:19:11   through and they have personality traits [TS]

00:19:13   but we never see their inner world will [TS]

00:19:15   never understand that the thing they're [TS]

00:19:16   doing related somehow to you know a [TS]

00:19:19   recent breakup or think they don't like [TS]

00:19:22   about themselves or whatever and in a [TS]

00:19:24   show where that's right there on the [TS]

00:19:26   page like jason said about storytelling [TS]

00:19:27   you can't help but think that it's [TS]

00:19:29   intentional for us not to know that the [TS]

00:19:31   cornerstones of the humans with the [TS]

00:19:32   exception maybe a little bit of forward [TS]

00:19:33   we get to see a little bit of that I [TS]

00:19:35   actually have a theory about why LC and [TS]

00:19:37   stubs are more sympathetic [TS]

00:19:38   I think one of the things this show is [TS]

00:19:40   about among the bajillion thinks the [TS]

00:19:43   show is about is it's a critique of the [TS]

00:19:44   entitled rich studies have found in the [TS]

00:19:47   real world that the richer you get the [TS]

00:19:49   less empathetic you are because the less [TS]

00:19:52   you rely on other people and the more [TS]

00:19:53   you see them is either you know [TS]

00:19:55   employees or commodities or placings and [TS]

00:19:58   that's what you see in West world you [TS]

00:19:59   see this whole park setup where rich [TS]

00:20:02   people can come in and do whatever they [TS]

00:20:04   want with no consequences which is sort [TS]

00:20:06   of like the real world there's no [TS]

00:20:08   relevance to I 16 to any of this [TS]

00:20:10   obviously bank world was not as popular [TS]

00:20:11   but yea similar setup that's why do you [TS]

00:20:14   need that we already have that [TS]

00:20:15   confidence that we live so you started [TS]

00:20:18   writing this year before reality for ya [TS]

00:20:19   pan out John pan out for the richer the [TS]

00:20:23   characters are the more powerful they [TS]

00:20:25   are the more horrible they are ya for [TS]

00:20:26   the men in black you know they have a [TS]

00:20:29   couple of glimmers of redeeming [TS]

00:20:30   qualities but those guys are straight-up [TS]

00:20:31   monsters and now i can talk more about [TS]

00:20:33   that later [TS]

00:20:34   the farther down you go on the ladder [TS]

00:20:36   the the more sympathetic the characters [TS]

00:20:38   become Stubbs is just a guy doing his [TS]

00:20:39   job he's not particularly sadistic he's [TS]

00:20:42   even somewhat respectful the the scene [TS]

00:20:44   where clementines programmed to start [TS]

00:20:46   killing folks and he asked to go put her [TS]

00:20:48   down [TS]

00:20:49   he's trying not to shoot her at first [TS]

00:20:51   he's not doesn't just walk in and be [TS]

00:20:53   like boom [TS]

00:20:53   oh she's dead and in the kindest human [TS]

00:20:57   being in the show is just that lowly [TS]

00:20:59   tech in the body shop who doesn't even [TS]

00:21:00   really want to dominate robots he the [TS]

00:21:03   thing he wants to do is fix a bird and [TS]

00:21:06   finally finally we're talking about the [TS]

00:21:07   two stars of the show you [TS]

00:21:09   listen services a what about Sylvester [TS]

00:21:12   he's in that he's the lowest-ranked that [TS]

00:21:14   we see of employees in in West world and [TS]

00:21:16   he is not a nice person so I added that [TS]

00:21:18   is true [TS]

00:21:19   a friend of mine twitter said she was in [TS]

00:21:20   think that's my episode 5 she said I'm [TS]

00:21:22   standing to the asian-american was [TS]

00:21:24   saying I'm getting a little tired of the [TS]

00:21:26   show being white people yelling at [TS]

00:21:28   people of color and i was like i'm [TS]

00:21:29   hoping hoping hoping they're setting us [TS]

00:21:31   up for reversal and Sylvester was one [TS]

00:21:34   people she's referring to is like him [TS]

00:21:35   yelling at and like brow being that guy [TS]

00:21:38   and I'm like well I guess it kind of got [TS]

00:21:40   reversed on [TS]

00:21:41   yeah i really enjoyed the two of them [TS]

00:21:44   because I sort of liked I liked finding [TS]

00:21:46   out that the corporation itself has [TS]

00:21:50   people who work for it on sort of lower [TS]

00:21:53   levels you know that are not executives [TS]

00:21:55   like the grunts you know I've spent a [TS]

00:21:58   lot of my professional career as sort of [TS]

00:22:01   one of those people on the front lines [TS]

00:22:02   of technical support on the front lines [TS]

00:22:04   of bug testing things like that and so [TS]

00:22:07   it was sort of nice to see that you're [TS]

00:22:09   going to portray a corporation to me but [TS]

00:22:11   you're not gonna just show me the people [TS]

00:22:13   on mahogany row you're gonna show me [TS]

00:22:15   some of the day-to-day folks who like go [TS]

00:22:19   home and have a beer with their buddies [TS]

00:22:21   and you know over there dollar pbr's [TS]

00:22:24   they whine about their jobs because [TS]

00:22:26   their jobs suck you know in whatever way [TS]

00:22:28   that is so it was nice to me to see sort [TS]

00:22:31   of regular people i guess because I sort [TS]

00:22:34   of had a hard time relating to a lot of [TS]

00:22:37   the higher-level corporate intrigue like [TS]

00:22:39   Charlotte and the board and forward and [TS]

00:22:42   even Bernard a little bit and Teresa [TS]

00:22:44   because like I'm not that person I don't [TS]

00:22:47   move in that world I never had the [TS]

00:22:49   office upstairs [TS]

00:22:50   Kelly can I ask you a question what you [TS]

00:22:52   thought about ford's office in that [TS]

00:22:53   context because it was magnificent [TS]

00:22:56   but it was somewhere underground we [TS]

00:22:57   don't know how many levels deep and he [TS]

00:22:59   went away from he could have obviously [TS]

00:23:01   had an office it was in the top of the [TS]

00:23:02   Mason seen his creation all the time he [TS]

00:23:04   didn't even have any like holographic [TS]

00:23:06   display stuff it was all very analog in [TS]

00:23:08   his office what do you think about that [TS]

00:23:10   relative to that theory [TS]

00:23:11   well what I liked about seeing that in [TS]

00:23:14   the fact that to me what it showed was [TS]

00:23:16   that he was sort of sentimental because [TS]

00:23:17   I sort of assumed his office was kind of [TS]

00:23:20   on the part of the same structure that [TS]

00:23:22   we see initially you know the cold [TS]

00:23:23   storage where the cooling is failed and [TS]

00:23:25   like everything sort of wet and dark in [TS]

00:23:28   my mind [TS]

00:23:29   his office is not far from the place in [TS]

00:23:33   cold storage where we find him having to [TS]

00:23:34   drink with old building episode 1 as [TS]

00:23:36   they drink to the lady with the white [TS]

00:23:37   shoes and so I serve for me that felt [TS]

00:23:41   like one of the things that you can [TS]

00:23:43   point out as he's a good guy because he [TS]

00:23:46   didn't ever bother to move upstairs when [TS]

00:23:48   they went when they assume expanded at [TS]

00:23:50   some point and you know the building got [TS]

00:23:52   taller or you know any of that stuff [TS]

00:23:54   like he stayed sort of down there where [TS]

00:23:56   it started and he doesn't have any of [TS]

00:23:59   that stuff in his office like I you know [TS]

00:24:01   he literally is giving Bernard the scoop [TS]

00:24:05   on Arnold at one point as he stands in [TS]

00:24:08   front of a chalkboard that's written on [TS]

00:24:11   with like recent stuff because like the [TS]

00:24:13   reverie stuff is like mapped out in a [TS]

00:24:15   flow chart on a chalkboard in this in [TS]

00:24:19   this world where I'm sure everyone of us [TS]

00:24:21   at one point we were one of those [TS]

00:24:23   computers that unfolds when I take it [TS]

00:24:25   out of my pocket [TS]

00:24:26   you know I know Don and I talked about [TS]

00:24:29   that like every single yeah good i'm [TS]

00:24:31   gonna have cracked a provision crisis [TS]

00:24:33   right now that you could be yeah yeah [TS]

00:24:35   you don't even have to try very hard [TS]

00:24:36   apparently being around a lot of [TS]

00:24:39   development centers and and things like [TS]

00:24:41   that in the software world his office to [TS]

00:24:44   me you know just reeks of being a nerd i [TS]

00:24:49   mean the things he had around him [TS]

00:24:51   the fact that there were no windows and [TS]

00:24:52   blade has a lot of like museum quality [TS]

00:24:54   to it right like it's there all this in [TS]

00:24:57   it [TS]

00:24:58   the other thing is I get the feeling [TS]

00:24:59   that I mean he obviously spent a decent [TS]

00:25:00   i'm walking around with supervising the [TS]

00:25:03   work that's being done but I feel like [TS]

00:25:04   the storytellers for westworld third in [TS]

00:25:06   the in the park probably wouldn't super [TS]

00:25:08   enjoy like walking around or observing [TS]

00:25:10   remotely what the guests are doing [TS]

00:25:12   because it's basically like their [TS]

00:25:13   stories get fouled up like you know some [TS]

00:25:15   eighty percent of the time because you [TS]

00:25:17   know that the guest is new in town and [TS]

00:25:18   they want to shoot somebody instead of [TS]

00:25:20   talking to them and finding out what [TS]

00:25:21   their quest is it going on the story [TS]

00:25:22   that would be really frustrating just [TS]

00:25:23   like probably you don't want to uh sit [TS]

00:25:25   and watch people use software that you [TS]

00:25:27   developed because you get really [TS]

00:25:28   frustrated with an efficient they would [TS]

00:25:31   be all that is so true [TS]

00:25:33   you have not be the the writer as [TS]

00:25:34   annoying is that writer is you know [TS]

00:25:36   there's some let's talk about the we are [TS]

00:25:39   already sorted into it the the computer [TS]

00:25:41   aspect of it the behind-the-scenes [TS]

00:25:42   aspect of which i kinda wasn't expecting [TS]

00:25:44   I thought that would be much more kind [TS]

00:25:45   of finessed of like well suffice to say [TS]

00:25:47   it's magic happens but instead we see [TS]

00:25:50   them talking we see Bernard and LC [TS]

00:25:52   talking about it we see the the writer [TS]

00:25:56   least Sizemore whine about it and he [TS]

00:25:59   says at one point in a conversation with [TS]

00:26:01   maybe Teresa where he talks about how I [TS]

00:26:03   come up with these great things and then [TS]

00:26:05   you know I have to do all these [TS]

00:26:07   different branches and I thought that [TS]

00:26:08   was really interesting about them [TS]

00:26:09   talking about like how do you script [TS]

00:26:11   this world they didn't they they they [TS]

00:26:13   gave it more attention it's not like [TS]

00:26:15   they explained all of how it works but [TS]

00:26:17   they gave him more attention than I [TS]

00:26:19   expected and I thought it was really [TS]

00:26:20   interesting to see that that aspect of [TS]

00:26:23   it you know be the the branching of the [TS]

00:26:26   dialogue when we see into into the mind [TS]

00:26:30   of the host and how they have their [TS]

00:26:31   conversations and how their scripts for [TS]

00:26:33   that and the people who are working on [TS]

00:26:36   the software patches the fact that we've [TS]

00:26:37   got this idea of like rolling people [TS]

00:26:39   back to a previous version is all this [TS]

00:26:41   kind of like software terminology that's [TS]

00:26:43   happening about the minds of the host I [TS]

00:26:45   i really love that aspect and that was a [TS]

00:26:47   real surprise to me that that we spent a [TS]

00:26:49   lot of time with sort of the technology [TS]

00:26:51   of the mind and the scripting of [TS]

00:26:54   Westworld unlike most sci-fi shows that [TS]

00:26:56   do AI they didn't it wasn't like you [TS]

00:26:59   know like how 9000 or were fascinated by [TS]

00:27:01   the idea that machines can think instead [TS]

00:27:04   all the computer stuff [TS]

00:27:06   well a blessedly was far future enough [TS]

00:27:08   where we can just we can we have a lot [TS]

00:27:09   of it is Magic as well like they're [TS]

00:27:11   super advanced right but be it was [TS]

00:27:13   treated as game development if you know [TS]

00:27:14   anything my game development we were [TS]

00:27:16   talking like a bunch of game together [TS]

00:27:17   it's not like a bunch of people building [TS]

00:27:19   how 9000 it's all about you know grew in [TS]

00:27:22   your story lines versus player action [TS]

00:27:24   versus liking the resilient tweaking [TS]

00:27:25   parameters and letting them go through [TS]

00:27:26   these game loops like and which is a [TS]

00:27:29   refreshing change because normally [TS]

00:27:30   anything having to do with thinking [TS]

00:27:31   computers it's all about deep thoughts [TS]

00:27:33   about how these computer there's plenty [TS]

00:27:35   of that in West world to but totally the [TS]

00:27:37   people running the show [TS]

00:27:38   there there it's a game their game [TS]

00:27:40   developers yeah I had a lot of red dead [TS]

00:27:41   redemption fields while watching [TS]

00:27:44   uh-huh no man in black is bored because [TS]

00:27:46   he's played every every inch of the game [TS]

00:27:48   yeah trying to get he's trying to [TS]

00:27:50   collect all the gyms now right to get [TS]

00:27:51   his bonus he's basically been using [TS]

00:27:53   cheat codes right and then he wants to [TS]

00:27:55   play the real game that's actually gonna [TS]

00:27:56   be hard for him and the poor rider like [TS]

00:27:58   when you got the new speech for the [TS]

00:27:59   protector to give at the end of the [TS]

00:28:01   thing and it's like when you have a game [TS]

00:28:03   and this be and this is a big cut scene [TS]

00:28:04   and you walk away from it like an [TS]

00:28:06   open-world game you walk outside the [TS]

00:28:07   audio radius and it's like and now i'm [TS]

00:28:09   not interested in the writers like but [TS]

00:28:10   but this is the pivotal moment ago and [TS]

00:28:13   over here and dig in the dirt help [TS]

00:28:15   actually John something that you [TS]

00:28:16   mentioned that i wanted to i want to rip [TS]

00:28:18   on a little bit is I think you could [TS]

00:28:20   argue and and nobody's gonna argue that [TS]

00:28:23   the hosts are not emerging into being [TS]

00:28:26   thinking beings of some kind of at least [TS]

00:28:28   i think very few people would argue that [TS]

00:28:29   because what are we watching otherwise [TS]

00:28:31   but what I like about the show is that [TS]

00:28:33   it challenges your assumptions all the [TS]

00:28:36   way through episode 10 about whether the [TS]

00:28:39   hosts whether everything the host do is [TS]

00:28:43   emergent and because they're free [TS]

00:28:46   thinkers or whether they are they are [TS]

00:28:49   operating on their programming and the [TS]

00:28:51   example in episode 10 is that Maeve is [TS]

00:28:54   shown a script that she's been given [TS]

00:28:56   that describes her rebellion and in the [TS]

00:28:59   sequences of it and highways at several [TS]

00:29:02   points have houston we have moments like [TS]

00:29:03   that right where you're like wait a [TS]

00:29:05   second so our am I seeing the legitimate [TS]

00:29:07   person who is emerging from this this [TS]

00:29:10   host or is this part of the script and [TS]

00:29:14   right down to the fact that the uprising [TS]

00:29:15   has revealed at the end of episode 10 by [TS]

00:29:17   Ford is his new narrative it's like a [TS]

00:29:19   wait a second are the uprising because [TS]

00:29:22   he's giving the ability for them to [TS]

00:29:24   repeal or they are the rising up because [TS]

00:29:26   he written a rebellion well it is there [TS]

00:29:29   really a difference like that's the i [TS]

00:29:31   know right the question wasn't really [TS]

00:29:33   difference but like they do they do [TS]

00:29:34   highlighted the very end with Maeve they [TS]

00:29:37   I mean like the show the show is a [TS]

00:29:39   remarkable to me in the number of times [TS]

00:29:42   that it puts legit solid non misleading [TS]

00:29:46   information in the show like episodes [TS]

00:29:49   and episodes ahead like 56 episodes as [TS]

00:29:51   they don't put just like vague hints [TS]

00:29:53   that you can just go back and and see [TS]

00:29:54   all I see how that connect [TS]

00:29:55   they put like actual real information [TS]

00:29:56   actionable information that's why the [TS]

00:29:58   whole internet figured out so many [TS]

00:29:59   things yes and so on episode 10 they do [TS]

00:30:02   that thing oh may be surprised to see [TS]

00:30:04   that are all escape has been planned [TS]

00:30:05   right but in that scene they purposely [TS]

00:30:08   tell you into this unit you recruit the [TS]

00:30:10   people you get you're gonna get on the [TS]

00:30:11   train and when you get to the mainland [TS]

00:30:13   yada yada yada and she cuts them off and [TS]

00:30:15   then they show her at the end she [TS]

00:30:17   deviates from that is exactly right the [TS]

00:30:20   script was you get on the train and so [TS]

00:30:21   the show is very explicitly saying even [TS]

00:30:24   though [TS]

00:30:25   yeah the reveal here is that everything [TS]

00:30:27   has been planned [TS]

00:30:29   we're going to show you except for the [TS]

00:30:31   last part where maybe it's something [TS]

00:30:32   different and you may think oh that [TS]

00:30:34   means maybe is deciding on her own but [TS]

00:30:36   like every single other story in the [TS]

00:30:38   park it can be interrupted by the human [TS]

00:30:40   players and so Felix gives her a note [TS]

00:30:42   and she decides to get off the train [TS]

00:30:43   just like Hector getting shot in the [TS]

00:30:45   head before I can give a speech I want [TS]

00:30:46   to talk a second about about this notion [TS]

00:30:48   that the telling stories because i took [TS]

00:30:50   a there's something more dangerous and [TS]

00:30:52   someone takes a meditation class I [TS]

00:30:53   realize what a good insight meditation [TS]

00:30:55   class few years ago and one of the [TS]

00:30:57   things the instructor talked about a lot [TS]

00:30:58   was stories we tell ourselves about what [TS]

00:31:00   we're doing that our stories we layer on [TS]

00:31:03   top of the don't necessary have a direct [TS]

00:31:06   relationship what we're doing but we [TS]

00:31:07   tell ourselves they do and I've been [TS]

00:31:08   watching the show and local a Nolan [TS]

00:31:11   enjoyed maybe their insight meditation [TS]

00:31:12   people because they're talking from that [TS]

00:31:14   book but be a lot of it is about the [TS]

00:31:17   story the man in black and it's all [TS]

00:31:18   stories we tell ourselves with the exact [TS]

00:31:20   notion that the host when I saw me when [TS]

00:31:22   she's watching her words play out in [TS]

00:31:24   front of her as she's saying them all [TS]

00:31:26   mine to that error state i thought this [TS]

00:31:28   is exactly the breaking out of the [TS]

00:31:30   monkey mind thing that they talk about [TS]

00:31:31   meditation about getting the monkey mind [TS]

00:31:33   to stop talking at you so you can [TS]

00:31:35   achieve higher insight and stop telling [TS]

00:31:38   these stories about yourself and it was [TS]

00:31:39   just it was beautifully exploded there [TS]

00:31:41   without adding two they didn't have [TS]

00:31:42   someone coming to well meditation human [TS]

00:31:45   not like I'm doing right now [TS]

00:31:46   they let us explore and see that yeah [TS]

00:31:48   it's it's interesting to see the man in [TS]

00:31:50   black and forward and the stories they [TS]

00:31:52   tell themselves and how that conflicts [TS]

00:31:54   with the story you can see in them for [TS]

00:31:56   his is a spoiled child who who doesn't [TS]

00:31:59   want anyone else playing with his toys & [TS]

00:32:01   and that was what I took from his the [TS]

00:32:03   final rebellion he clearly knew the [TS]

00:32:06   board was trying to force them out he [TS]

00:32:07   clearly knew he only had [TS]

00:32:09   so much time so my view of the ending is [TS]

00:32:12   that he basically is like well if I [TS]

00:32:14   can't have this you can either so I'm [TS]

00:32:15   going to smash all my toys & and use [TS]

00:32:18   them to hurt you because that was that [TS]

00:32:20   was his childhood but he was a toning I [TS]

00:32:22   mean like it there so dangle laughs I [TS]

00:32:24   don't know I know she was telling I [TS]

00:32:26   think he was telling himself he was a [TS]

00:32:28   toning he he knew he had to be the [TS]

00:32:31   monster to get his creations to the the [TS]

00:32:33   point of true consciousness and he had [TS]

00:32:36   to pay for that I think he thought he [TS]

00:32:38   was atoning I think that's what he told [TS]

00:32:40   himself but really he just wanted to be [TS]

00:32:43   in control he didn't want his creations [TS]

00:32:45   to really get to the point of full [TS]

00:32:46   consciousness on their own [TS]

00:32:48   he wanted to be the one who gave them [TS]

00:32:49   that gift so that he could go out as as [TS]

00:32:52   God as the guy calling the shots [TS]

00:32:55   controlling the story i'm with Nathan [TS]

00:32:57   and same with the man in black the men [TS]

00:32:59   in black says you know I was trying to [TS]

00:33:01   get them to fight back he he thinks of [TS]

00:33:03   himself as this hero who is giving this [TS]

00:33:05   great gift to the robots he is by [TS]

00:33:08   brutally torturing them for his own sick [TS]

00:33:10   jollies he is actually liberating them [TS]

00:33:13   but no he's just a scorned adolescence [TS]

00:33:15   hehe thinks when he was William he [TS]

00:33:19   thought that Delores was his prize that [TS]

00:33:21   if he won westworld Dolores would be his [TS]

00:33:23   prize and then he realized she wasn't [TS]

00:33:25   his prize that she you know maybe she [TS]

00:33:27   wasn't autonomous but she didn't belong [TS]

00:33:29   to him and he got angry and he started [TS]

00:33:31   taking that on dolores and everyone [TS]

00:33:33   around him just like you see with a lot [TS]

00:33:35   of 20-something gamers and so he's [TS]

00:33:38   basically just acting out and all of his [TS]

00:33:40   board meanderings around the park and [TS]

00:33:42   torturing people and blowing stuff up [TS]

00:33:44   it's just him throwing a fit for all the [TS]

00:33:47   rest of his life because he wanted the [TS]

00:33:49   shiny woman prize and he didn't get it [TS]

00:33:51   that's my theory i'm with you on the man [TS]

00:33:53   in black but anybody with for like man [TS]

00:33:55   Michael example is absolutely what they [TS]

00:33:57   want his stories the stories telling [TS]

00:33:58   himself what we see him doing and I [TS]

00:34:00   think he took turns too much on a [TS]

00:34:01   diamond a few places we don't get it [TS]

00:34:03   developed enough because they're too [TS]

00:34:05   busy hiding twist for most diseases and [TS]

00:34:07   put forward I really believe that put [TS]

00:34:09   the way Anthony Hopkins plated and the [TS]

00:34:10   few things he has that that he his he [TS]

00:34:14   was sincerely motor the story tell [TS]

00:34:16   himself is the average story it's the [TS]

00:34:17   story of [TS]

00:34:18   a man who has done terrible things he [TS]

00:34:20   does not think much of himself but [TS]

00:34:22   nevertheless still believes and actually [TS]

00:34:23   is smarter than most everyone around him [TS]

00:34:25   bringing a plan to fruition to both [TS]

00:34:30   atone for his past sins and right his [TS]

00:34:32   wrongs and tried with some finality to [TS]

00:34:36   you know he's got he gets got the blood [TS]

00:34:37   sacrifice [TS]

00:34:38   he's setting the stage for all the [TS]

00:34:41   things that he's done wrong to correct [TS]

00:34:42   themselves and everything he says in the [TS]

00:34:45   show I I'm i think he believes about how [TS]

00:34:47   the hostess and humans are really no [TS]

00:34:49   different from each other and when he [TS]

00:34:50   said give that speech that somewhere in [TS]

00:34:52   the middle it's like you think he's [TS]

00:34:53   saying it to show how little he thinks [TS]

00:34:55   of humans but by the end you realize he [TS]

00:34:56   should say to say how much he thinks of [TS]

00:34:58   hosts in fact when he says that they're [TS]

00:34:59   better it's not a sarcastic evil thing [TS]

00:35:01   to put down humans he really believes it [TS]

00:35:04   so I'm with you man with lieutenant [TS]

00:35:06   green I take forward to face value [TS]

00:35:08   that's fair enough [TS]

00:35:08   I like that there's debt ambiguity there [TS]

00:35:10   that I can have my interpretation and [TS]

00:35:13   you can have yours and yours sounds just [TS]

00:35:15   as valid to me as mine so I like that [TS]

00:35:17   about the show for me there's a piece of [TS]

00:35:20   it that we don't that we we haven't even [TS]

00:35:22   considered at least even on the show [TS]

00:35:25   anyway um and that is I sort of felt [TS]

00:35:28   like at once and now that we know what [TS]

00:35:31   happened to Arnold not Bernard but [TS]

00:35:34   Arnold now that we know what happened to [TS]

00:35:36   Arnold we've seen the ending of that [TS]

00:35:38   story I feel like this was almost make [TS]

00:35:42   him trying to give a gift back to Arnold [TS]

00:35:47   because remember our gave him a gift of [TS]

00:35:49   here is your family like the the best [TS]

00:35:52   moment your you have and and you know [TS]

00:35:57   i'm gonna give you I'm going to preserve [TS]

00:35:59   that moment for you i'm gonna put it [TS]

00:36:00   right here in the park in a little house [TS]

00:36:01   and nobody's gonna be able to tell and [TS]

00:36:03   and we'll make sure it's like this [TS]

00:36:04   little secret I built you a dad that you [TS]

00:36:07   remember or whatever and then I feel [TS]

00:36:10   like a little bit like he you know [TS]

00:36:13   because he mentioned a few times like [TS]

00:36:15   Arnold came to feel the way you did [TS]

00:36:17   Arnold came at this from a different way [TS]

00:36:19   whatever and I think that that he is [TS]

00:36:22   sort of trying to atone to Arnold I feel [TS]

00:36:25   like he feels like he needs to do it in [TS]

00:36:28   Arnolds name almost that he needs to be [TS]

00:36:30   able to do this [TS]

00:36:31   sort of settle what he believes to be [TS]

00:36:34   the score that he has with Arnold and [TS]

00:36:36   sort of tried to to you know get the red [TS]

00:36:38   out of his ledger [TS]

00:36:40   so I to me that was that was more what [TS]

00:36:43   it felt like was that that was the [TS]

00:36:45   humanitarian piece of it the piece of [TS]

00:36:47   humanity within for that we hadn't seen [TS]

00:36:49   was how truly profoundly he had been [TS]

00:36:53   affected by Arnold dying i like um when [TS]

00:36:57   Nathan said about how you can really [TS]

00:36:59   interpret this either way and I'm struck [TS]

00:37:01   by something John said which is that he [TS]

00:37:03   he thinks that you know forward this is [TS]

00:37:06   what forward believes and I think that's [TS]

00:37:08   right i think he does believe it i'm not [TS]

00:37:12   sure if that's actually the case and [TS]

00:37:14   that it isn't you know he that's the [TS]

00:37:15   story he tells himself when he's still [TS]

00:37:17   just kind of being a jerk who wants to [TS]

00:37:20   have complete control over everything [TS]

00:37:21   that jerk and he likes best thing people [TS]

00:37:23   but I believe it too like I believe it [TS]

00:37:26   basically he's he strikes me as sad [TS]

00:37:28   throughout the whole series that he is [TS]

00:37:29   not you know lording it over to people [TS]

00:37:32   and being smarter and controlling the [TS]

00:37:34   whole time he doesn't like who he is or [TS]

00:37:37   how things have turned out and he is sad [TS]

00:37:38   i think I'm team Nathan on this but I [TS]

00:37:40   want to go to Tony because Tony Tony [TS]

00:37:41   proclaimed his his being on underneath [TS]

00:37:43   inside on forward here to Tony I I mean [TS]

00:37:46   maybe I can just never be sympathetic to [TS]

00:37:48   eat you know rich white powerful [TS]

00:37:51   industrialist guy who I I almost going [TS]

00:37:53   to say evil in there I guess that's the [TS]

00:37:54   contention is is he evil or not but I [TS]

00:37:56   mean I guess it depends on how you read [TS]

00:37:59   his his last scene there but I mean I [TS]

00:38:00   mean I just see it is the culmination of [TS]

00:38:03   him basically setting into motion his [TS]

00:38:07   own pretentious suicide where he even [TS]

00:38:09   gives the speech about how the the [TS]

00:38:11   composer's that did that don't really [TS]

00:38:12   die because they live on in their music [TS]

00:38:14   and he's like and I'm going to live on [TS]

00:38:15   in my killer robot is his speech it [TS]

00:38:18   gives it a title right he's got a title [TS]

00:38:20   for it and is a press conference at the [TS]

00:38:22   beach why does he have to do all that [TS]

00:38:25   yeah if he is not a warped and twisted [TS]

00:38:27   self-absorbed you know [TS]

00:38:30   yeah I I mean and and I guess that the [TS]

00:38:33   the question is is what stuff is is all [TS]

00:38:36   I'm interested to know what will happen [TS]

00:38:39   at the start of season 2 in terms of [TS]

00:38:40   what will give us information about how [TS]

00:38:42   what stuff is things that are eggs [TS]

00:38:44   actually as he laid them out versus [TS]

00:38:46   actual freedom that he is granted [TS]

00:38:49   because that's that's still the question [TS]

00:38:50   to me is how much what I mean is there [TS]

00:38:52   actual of any freedom here or is [TS]

00:38:53   everybody just doing things that he has [TS]

00:38:55   set in motion I'm gonna bring up [TS]

00:38:57   something that John staircases said [TS]

00:38:58   that's relevant but very briefly which [TS]

00:39:00   is just like John said they laid into [TS]

00:39:02   any breadcrumbs where we could see them [TS]

00:39:04   it wasn't you know they were barely know [TS]

00:39:05   there's all over the lawn and we have to [TS]

00:39:07   figure out which they are we saw [TS]

00:39:09   forwards family right we sighs house we [TS]

00:39:11   saw him as a young man we saw his [TS]

00:39:13   abusive father we saw forward tell [TS]

00:39:15   Bernard that he'd sort of toned father [TS]

00:39:17   down like out of kindness Arnold had [TS]

00:39:19   made the father not quite as bad as he [TS]

00:39:22   well that's right so like so many things [TS]

00:39:25   we seat for is reliving his childhood [TS]

00:39:27   like how much time you spend in that [TS]

00:39:29   ecology seems to be there a lot its kind [TS]

00:39:31   of creepy right and we know that there's [TS]

00:39:32   the basement lab but he's constantly are [TS]

00:39:36   constantly on some matter reliving in [TS]

00:39:38   arnold at some level made a trap for [TS]

00:39:40   Ford by building for his childhood and [TS]

00:39:42   not allowing foot forward ever destroy [TS]

00:39:44   his childhood not really for it is a [TS]

00:39:46   fascinating character right i mean that [TS]

00:39:48   that's the bottom line here is these [TS]

00:39:49   complex in it we can question his [TS]

00:39:51   motivations right to the end of his last [TS]

00:39:54   gesture for me having a front-row seat [TS]

00:39:57   at the fort of our generation [TS]

00:40:00   steve jobs that there were a lot of [TS]

00:40:03   things that reminds me a lot of essays [TS]

00:40:06   last year you know when he knew that he [TS]

00:40:09   was going to go [TS]

00:40:10   it was very very striking me people you [TS]

00:40:13   know you look at some things on the [TS]

00:40:15   surface of what they do and they seem [TS]

00:40:17   selfish and self-serving and they might [TS]

00:40:19   seem grandiose but in the end they [TS]

00:40:25   really are done for the right reasons [TS]

00:40:28   and so i will give Ford a pass just for [TS]

00:40:33   that last half an hour he had on earth [TS]

00:40:36   of doing the right thing so but but it [TS]

00:40:40   released it really hit home with me and [TS]

00:40:42   a very very personal note there of of [TS]

00:40:45   having the opportunity a couple times to [TS]

00:40:47   be up close to people like that [TS]

00:40:49   let's not go too far with the right [TS]

00:40:51   things he did send a what it seems like [TS]

00:40:52   a large number of killer robots and [TS]

00:40:54   different people so you [TS]

00:40:55   angel like writing for the end he he did [TS]

00:40:58   he did have a woman murdered several [TS]

00:41:00   episodes earlier to make sure that [TS]

00:41:01   nothing got his way sending like an army [TS]

00:41:04   of killer Roman tell us about apple [TS]

00:41:06   products on this is just and again not [TS]

00:41:08   too far off from some of the flowers [TS]

00:41:11   well we're all gonna get killed our way [TS]

00:41:13   those top 100 meetings are must've been [TS]

00:41:15   rough [TS]

00:41:16   you have no idea that you have to answer [TS]

00:41:18   this question if we ask it how many [TS]

00:41:19   killer robots you have in your house [TS]

00:41:21   right now around just blink once if [TS]

00:41:23   there are more than one [TS]

00:41:24   yeah all right Don his team killer robot [TS]

00:41:27   it's good to know that that's important [TS]

00:41:28   to establish know that the the thing is [TS]

00:41:30   you have to ask yourself about the you [TS]

00:41:33   know the sort of theme of the end of the [TS]

00:41:34   whole show is that the robot who becomes [TS]

00:41:37   finally self where and listens to her [TS]

00:41:40   own inner voice and her own inner voices [TS]

00:41:42   telling her to be a homicidal mainline [TS]

00:41:44   that's a pretty pretty funny you know [TS]

00:41:49   journey she's got Y and mixed in there [TS]

00:41:51   too it's it's a heavy stew [TS]

00:41:53   yes toxic else do and i wanted to a new [TS]

00:41:56   shift gears a little bit and talk about [TS]

00:41:58   one of the other I mean it's an HBO show [TS]

00:42:00   right so you can know you can get a lot [TS]

00:42:02   of violence you can get a lot of [TS]

00:42:03   language and you can get a lot of nudity [TS]

00:42:05   now [TS]

00:42:06   westworld has a lot of nudity but what's [TS]

00:42:08   fascinating about it is it is mostly yet [TS]

00:42:12   on like robots that are nude and in the [TS]

00:42:14   repair shop in the blue corner office [TS]

00:42:16   cold blue lighting and stuff like that [TS]

00:42:19   and and you know the nudity in West [TS]

00:42:22   world starts out you may be asking [TS]

00:42:25   yourself like oh well it's HBO of course [TS]

00:42:27   there's gonna be nudity and very rapidly [TS]

00:42:29   becomes a fascinating choice of how they [TS]

00:42:31   did depicted I wanted to know if Nathan [TS]

00:42:35   said that he wanted to talk about it [TS]

00:42:37   Nathan you have something you'd like to [TS]

00:42:38   say about this one when you go into an [TS]

00:42:40   HBO show you expect naked ladies you [TS]

00:42:42   expect a lot of naked ladies and you [TS]

00:42:44   expect them to be very very naked and i [TS]

00:42:47   love that westworld inverts that I love [TS]

00:42:50   that westworld after the first few [TS]

00:42:52   episodes whenever you there's a naked [TS]

00:42:54   lady in a scene [TS]

00:42:56   chances are she is the most powerful and [TS]

00:42:58   dangerous person in the room maybe [TS]

00:43:00   sitting there and whenever you know [TS]

00:43:03   maybe can be perfectly naked and Felix [TS]

00:43:04   and Sylvester can be there and [TS]

00:43:06   ostensibly they're the technicians and [TS]

00:43:07   they have all the power but it is [TS]

00:43:09   clear from her body language from her an [TS]

00:43:11   effect and from the way they react or [TS]

00:43:13   May has all the power and then you get I [TS]

00:43:16   forget her name but ingrid bolso a bear [TS]

00:43:18   doll that awesome awesome ingrid bolso [TS]

00:43:20   bear doll whose name I'm probably [TS]

00:43:22   mangling armistice right Armus Armus [TS]

00:43:24   yeah yeah when she's completely naked [TS]

00:43:26   and beating the only living crud out of [TS]

00:43:29   multiple technicians and deservedly so [TS]

00:43:32   and then is doing those countless tiny [TS]

00:43:35   hilarious things like poking at Felix's [TS]

00:43:37   hair curiously or things like that and [TS]

00:43:40   is just absolutely terrifying they make [TS]

00:43:43   a point that you can't treat these women [TS]

00:43:45   like eye candy there not there for you [TS]

00:43:47   to ogle at its not sexualize duty in [TS]

00:43:49   other words exactly one of the things I [TS]

00:43:51   liked about it was that it seemed a [TS]

00:43:53   little more fair i have sat through more [TS]

00:43:56   than my share of topless ladies on HBO [TS]

00:44:01   shows [TS]

00:44:01   yeah and so it was nice to see them [TS]

00:44:04   dudes that weren't wearing any clothes [TS]

00:44:06   mostly let you know straight up in the [TS]

00:44:08   interest of fairness it was because [TS]

00:44:09   particularly the way they were handling [TS]

00:44:11   the nudity it wasn't sexy it wasn't [TS]

00:44:14   naughty time it wasn't pants-off [TS]

00:44:16   dance-off it wasn't anything like fun [TS]

00:44:19   it was just like they're naked so you [TS]

00:44:23   can tell they're the they're the robots [TS]

00:44:25   yeah it's a power hitter for you know so [TS]

00:44:27   it stands to reason that there are gonna [TS]

00:44:30   be some guy robots and it stands to [TS]

00:44:32   reason that if you make them all be [TS]

00:44:33   naked when they're in the shop so to [TS]

00:44:35   speak [TS]

00:44:36   this is what you know you're gonna see [TS]

00:44:38   some so I liked it for being realistic [TS]

00:44:43   in that way and pharmacists gate had by [TS]

00:44:45   the way that my favorite moment in [TS]

00:44:47   episode 10 and it was when she gets the [TS]

00:44:49   automatic weapon and she laughs that [TS]

00:44:52   laugh oh yeah she laughed a laugh of [TS]

00:44:55   such joy and love i hope i have ever in [TS]

00:44:57   my life like anything that much and [TS]

00:45:00   enjoyed it because boy did she enjoy you [TS]

00:45:02   did enjoy shooting helps keeps losing [TS]

00:45:04   off it was awesome to watch her enjoy it [TS]

00:45:07   wasn't like I i wasn't really jazzed [TS]

00:45:10   about her like killing all those people [TS]

00:45:11   but it was pretty amazing to watch her [TS]

00:45:13   enjoy the way that she did but the the [TS]

00:45:16   dehumanization was interesting too [TS]

00:45:18   because forwards insistence the I [TS]

00:45:20   thought when the show started at [TS]

00:45:22   this is creepy that they're always [TS]

00:45:23   having all the hosts naked they don't [TS]

00:45:25   always seem to be prodding them and then [TS]

00:45:27   that scene was in the episode three or [TS]

00:45:29   four the scary surprise yet Ford turns [TS]

00:45:32   the technicians the middle of something [TS]

00:45:34   else returns and why do you have quite a [TS]

00:45:35   covered you know and they take the [TS]

00:45:37   exacto knife or scalpel and slams [TS]

00:45:39   graphic designer investment exactly and [TS]

00:45:41   slashing his face and I thought it was [TS]

00:45:43   the most unkind most demeaning thing [TS]

00:45:45   we've seen forward do because he had a [TS]

00:45:48   certain amount of respect yes because [TS]

00:45:50   you're respected at that point you think [TS]

00:45:51   he respects them as as a work that he's [TS]

00:45:54   created and you know I respect him as a [TS]

00:45:56   piece of craft and I was horrified by [TS]

00:46:00   that I'm not sure that scene worked for [TS]

00:46:03   me in terms of his character but i think [TS]

00:46:04   i'm still integrating what it means but [TS]

00:46:06   they that I thought we were this is this [TS]

00:46:08   is nolan enjoy making us collaborators [TS]

00:46:10   we're watching a show about extensible [TS]

00:46:12   robots for watching the nudity were [TS]

00:46:14   uncomfortable with that we have a proxy [TS]

00:46:16   was also uncomfortable with it he covers [TS]

00:46:18   and forces no no it's not that easy [TS]

00:46:20   pulling the cover way you viewer have to [TS]

00:46:22   watch this now complicit in what we're [TS]

00:46:24   doing here [TS]

00:46:25   yeah the meta storytelling in the show I [TS]

00:46:27   was awesome [TS]

00:46:30   it's a show about writing a shadow yeah [TS]

00:46:32   yeah it clearly clearly at several [TS]

00:46:35   points is and you know right and you end [TS]

00:46:37   up with like a play within a play [TS]

00:46:38   because westworld kind of a play within [TS]

00:46:40   a play but then we find out that you [TS]

00:46:41   know the plot of the show westworld is [TS]

00:46:44   kind of a play within a play itself [TS]

00:46:46   which is great and and there's the [TS]

00:46:48   question of I mean not not to get into [TS]

00:46:50   free will or something like that you can [TS]

00:46:52   listen to John podcast with Merlin when [TS]

00:46:54   they talk about that but the idea of of [TS]

00:46:56   scripted reactions and that question of [TS]

00:46:58   like is this a natural reaction is the [TS]

00:47:00   scripted reaction and doesn't matter and [TS]

00:47:02   are they making decisions and it yes so [TS]

00:47:04   much of it is very meta and very [TS]

00:47:06   carefully considered I like that about [TS]

00:47:08   it's like you can be met but I felt like [TS]

00:47:10   every move that the show made was very [TS]

00:47:14   seriously thought out in advance and [TS]

00:47:18   made knowingly which isn't always the [TS]

00:47:20   case [TS]

00:47:21   yes it's so weird a show that has about [TS]

00:47:23   that's the edge TV show any kind of a [TS]

00:47:25   writer who is unsympathetic for some [TS]

00:47:28   reason in Sizemore gets so forward is [TS]

00:47:30   the sympathetic writer but then we have [TS]

00:47:32   all these complicated feelings about him [TS]

00:47:33   Sizemore is [TS]

00:47:34   the unsympathetic later we eat the sky [TS]

00:47:36   sympathetic busy so human though [TS]

00:47:38   yes his concerns are so Petty and so [TS]

00:47:40   it's such a such a small scale they're [TS]

00:47:42   really important to him but we're [TS]

00:47:44   watching the show were like dude you're [TS]

00:47:45   not even in the game you're just down [TS]

00:47:46   there complaining about you know [TS]

00:47:47   honestly and red river he's got his own [TS]

00:47:49   little corner for it is the showrunner [TS]

00:47:51   and Sizemore is the staff writer right [TS]

00:47:55   that's what I just about because because [TS]

00:47:57   because I Sizemore thinks he is the [TS]

00:47:59   showrunner but likes it forward for it [TS]

00:48:01   is the writer of the series that we [TS]

00:48:02   watch the video you're watching me and I [TS]

00:48:04   realized that Ford has plotted out the [TS]

00:48:06   entire first season we don't we don't [TS]

00:48:08   know that we're watching it but in the [TS]

00:48:10   end the story that we see is for the [TS]

00:48:12   most part his story and then the other [TS]

00:48:14   writer is writing these little [TS]

00:48:15   adventures that the humans are doing in [TS]

00:48:17   their parking getting all cranky about [TS]

00:48:18   it and angling for positions in his [TS]

00:48:20   corporate world that's totally not gonna [TS]

00:48:22   matter although it's nice that he lives [TS]

00:48:23   because he's down there in the empty [TS]

00:48:24   seller looking for the robots that [TS]

00:48:26   aren't there other than everyone else is [TS]

00:48:28   gonna get shot by the robots [TS]

00:48:30   yeah this all these ideas are going to [TS]

00:48:31   opens up his idea fault they're all gone [TS]

00:48:33   yeah what one of the moments that [TS]

00:48:35   Sizemore gets there at the end I thought [TS]

00:48:36   I'd that it's easy to miss is that [TS]

00:48:38   there's a so there's a lot of threads [TS]

00:48:39   that are dangling that are going to be [TS]

00:48:41   presumably resolved in season 2 or at [TS]

00:48:42   least continued in season two one of [TS]

00:48:44   them is this idea that the board knowing [TS]

00:48:46   that they're going to fire forward is [TS]

00:48:48   trying to get the source code basically [TS]

00:48:51   the park out before forward can wreck it [TS]

00:48:53   and they stow it in a in a host who's in [TS]

00:48:58   cold storage so and Sizemore supposed to [TS]

00:49:01   get him to it [TS]

00:49:02   he's programmed him to behave kind of [TS]

00:49:04   like a regular person to get them on the [TS]

00:49:06   train out of out of and ironically of [TS]

00:49:09   course there is a host on the train it's [TS]

00:49:11   not this guy but he goes there and find [TS]

00:49:13   there's just that one shot of going and [TS]

00:49:15   opening cold storage and finding there's [TS]

00:49:16   nothing inside and he goes what and [TS]

00:49:20   that's it wouldn't Sizemore or Charlotte [TS]

00:49:24   Gail know that if you do that with a [TS]

00:49:27   host they would explode the the sixth [TS]

00:49:31   cervical vertebra would explode i'm [TS]

00:49:33   gonna make a trip that part out or [TS]

00:49:34   deactivated I mean they have all the [TS]

00:49:36   tools together the people the body shop [TS]

00:49:37   maybe the only way they can do is make a [TS]

00:49:39   new one without that vertebrae but the [TS]

00:49:40   people who run the show so i can disable [TS]

00:49:42   it and even if it does blow up then they [TS]

00:49:44   can still just take the brain that [TS]

00:49:46   that right yeah where he only needs to [TS]

00:49:48   make it to the train like we don't know [TS]

00:49:49   you know or HQ or whatever like we don't [TS]

00:49:51   we don't know exactly what you are this [TS]

00:49:55   is the kind of crap you have to do you [TS]

00:49:57   you have to do when you can't find a USB [TS]

00:49:59   Drive see that's what security have a [TS]

00:50:02   thumbdrive need all head pops off and [TS]

00:50:04   there's a USB part of the better [TS]

00:50:06   question is the host that they chose to [TS]

00:50:08   be the flash drive is Abernathy prime [TS]

00:50:11   yeah the first Dolores is dad that we [TS]

00:50:14   see on the show you what the first one [TS]

00:50:17   to break the one who finds the picture [TS]

00:50:18   of who I presume grew up to be Williams [TS]

00:50:21   white have science and so we get 2 [TS]

00:50:23   episode 9 where Bernard explains that [TS]

00:50:29   they put Clementine in storage but that [TS]

00:50:33   they didn't fix anything when they put [TS]

00:50:36   her there so she still has the [TS]

00:50:38   capability to pull the trigger and do [TS]

00:50:40   some damage if he gives her the high [TS]

00:50:44   sign right and I wondered if Abernathy [TS]

00:50:47   prime was in the same position and maybe [TS]

00:50:51   they picked like the worst possible [TS]

00:50:53   hosting cold storage to be the guy [TS]

00:50:56   because we know you know we know that [TS]

00:50:58   any host can go at any moment and we [TS]

00:51:00   know he was like in the show order he [TS]

00:51:03   was the first one to go and he used to [TS]

00:51:05   play a psychotic desert leader earlier [TS]

00:51:07   play yeah the leader of the cannibal [TS]

00:51:09   cult is law of conservation of [TS]

00:51:11   characters though I mean they're not [TS]

00:51:12   going to have one of the extras be the [TS]

00:51:14   one that they put the secret plans in [TS]

00:51:15   right [TS]

00:51:16   I thought that Maeve maybe it's somehow [TS]

00:51:18   they had chosen made and they were using [TS]

00:51:20   her to smuggle stuff out [TS]

00:51:22   oh yeah at a certain point though you [TS]

00:51:23   figured ellis got to realize for its [TS]

00:51:26   plan is not to destroy all the source [TS]

00:51:28   codes are all efforts to smuggle her out [TS]

00:51:29   of stupid yeah we find out what for the [TS]

00:51:31   actual plans which is way worse for them [TS]

00:51:32   this knowledge of partying right like we [TS]

00:51:35   thought he was going to lead us or [TS]

00:51:36   something oh he's gonna kill us all the [TS]

00:51:38   robots that's ok we'll always have [TS]

00:51:39   samurai world [TS]

00:51:40   yep yeah i was saying about the casting [TS]

00:51:43   call though for the cold-storage like [TS]

00:51:44   okay we need to come out to be naked [TS]

00:51:46   I assume some of that might be CGI of [TS]

00:51:48   course EG but we would be naked standing [TS]

00:51:51   in a cult-like dark [TS]

00:51:52   dark warehouse standing in water for [TS]

00:51:55   probably several hours a day for a [TS]

00:51:56   couple weeks we need you to stand in a [TS]

00:51:58   puddle in the dark under the least [TS]

00:52:00   flattering possible lading like all day [TS]

00:52:03   it's worth lunch will be provided and [TS]

00:52:04   don't move [TS]

00:52:05   yeah and I guarantee ya they had people [TS]

00:52:08   standing in line and returned away from [TS]

00:52:10   the job that absolutely they were you [TS]

00:52:13   were talking earlier about the the meta [TS]

00:52:14   aspect of the show and when the board is [TS]

00:52:16   talking about about taking over for its [TS]

00:52:19   narrative they're like you know don't [TS]

00:52:20   make it too complex kind of just [TS]

00:52:22   simplify it make it more entertaining [TS]

00:52:24   for people i'm thinking Jonathan Nolan [TS]

00:52:26   is flashing back to his time on person [TS]

00:52:28   of interest isn't even this is what [TS]

00:52:31   executives say right I've got some notes [TS]

00:52:33   they say i would also like to say I [TS]

00:52:35   think that this is also a show about [TS]

00:52:37   watching television [TS]

00:52:38   I think I know that the whole point of [TS]

00:52:41   the thing is the maze and the man in [TS]

00:52:43   black is pursuing the maze he's looking [TS]

00:52:45   for that trick he's looking for the [TS]

00:52:46   reveal that the twist in the game and [TS]

00:52:49   people keep telling him it's not for you [TS]

00:52:51   that's not the point of the game for you [TS]

00:52:53   and he doesn't get that is how many [TS]

00:52:55   times he told that on the show like 900 [TS]

00:52:57   times and he never gets a terroristic [TS]

00:52:59   skull exactly you a way to you saying [TS]

00:53:01   amazing for me [TS]

00:53:02   mm we think on this and so everyone is [TS]

00:53:04   well he's rich so he thinks everything [TS]

00:53:06   is for him whether people tell me those [TS]

00:53:08   aren't things for him yeah Nathan you [TS]

00:53:09   need to go until all the people and read [TS]

00:53:11   at the story yes exactly and that's the [TS]

00:53:13   thing i got all the people on reddit all [TS]

00:53:15   the theorizing I've seen you know is [TS]

00:53:17   Bernard android what what is the role of [TS]

00:53:19   the ghost nation are there multiple [TS]

00:53:21   timelines is William the men in black [TS]

00:53:23   Jonathan Nolan must have anticipated [TS]

00:53:25   that at least enjoy must have [TS]

00:53:27   anticipated that and I think they put in [TS]

00:53:29   the maze to say guys guys [TS]

00:53:30   you're missing the point it's not about [TS]

00:53:32   the twist it's not about the tricks [TS]

00:53:33   it's about the search for consciousness [TS]

00:53:36   that's what the shows about the tricks [TS]

00:53:38   and things are just window dressing and [TS]

00:53:40   i love that aspect yeah but though the [TS]

00:53:42   sling people along that way this is a [TS]

00:53:44   show that that sort of forces you to [TS]

00:53:47   take it seriously in forces you to pay [TS]

00:53:48   attention and presumes that you have a [TS]

00:53:51   certain level of understanding and [TS]

00:53:55   comprehension whatever that is because [TS]

00:53:58   for me what was really great about it [TS]

00:54:00   was that I was forced to pay attention [TS]

00:54:02   and I don't watch a whole lot of [TS]

00:54:05   television because I [TS]

00:54:06   don't like TV where you tell me what's [TS]

00:54:10   going to happen for the next hour in the [TS]

00:54:12   first five minutes of the show and I [TS]

00:54:15   don't want to see it coming and in fact [TS]

00:54:17   like the only way I want to see it [TS]

00:54:19   coming is when i see it coming about 90 [TS]

00:54:20   seconds before it actually shows up like [TS]

00:54:22   I was gone last night when we recorded [TS]

00:54:24   our initial reaction show our quick [TS]

00:54:27   initial reaction show 4 episode 10 which [TS]

00:54:30   was 45 minutes [TS]

00:54:31   um that when you know that the train has [TS]

00:54:35   left the station [TS]

00:54:37   you seem that happen and now you see a [TS]

00:54:39   car stopped on the tracks you know [TS]

00:54:42   waiting for the light to change or [TS]

00:54:43   whatever when you know those two things [TS]

00:54:45   and now the tension is oh god I know all [TS]

00:54:49   of this what's gonna happen [TS]

00:54:51   that's the kind of show i like to watch [TS]

00:54:53   and so for me it was really exciting to [TS]

00:54:55   see somebody put out this intelligent [TS]

00:54:57   show and go it's intelligent and we're [TS]

00:55:00   gonna leave a little breadcrumbs about [TS]

00:55:01   other stuff that's gonna happen and [TS]

00:55:03   maybe you'll catch them and maybe you [TS]

00:55:04   want and I really liked how they kept [TS]

00:55:07   everybody up to speed [TS]

00:55:09   even when you know even on like you know [TS]

00:55:12   reddit had figured it out already or [TS]

00:55:14   whatever um being able to make sure that [TS]

00:55:16   people who weren't paying attention to [TS]

00:55:18   message boards and people who don't read [TS]

00:55:19   all the theory stuff were capped engaged [TS]

00:55:22   and yet also people who did go through [TS]

00:55:24   her eyes about all that stuff and did [TS]

00:55:26   you know think about it in their spare [TS]

00:55:28   time and randomly text at nerd retired [TS]

00:55:31   friends of theirs who don't have [TS]

00:55:32   anything else to do and say you know I [TS]

00:55:34   was talking about this and what happens [TS]

00:55:35   if that happens [TS]

00:55:36   hey you know I've heard um like those [TS]

00:55:40   are the kind of things that i really [TS]

00:55:42   enjoyed about this show because i really [TS]

00:55:44   liked that they were sort of upfront [TS]

00:55:45   about being an intelligent pieces of [TS]

00:55:48   cinema for me because that's what it is [TS]

00:55:51   and i really enjoyed getting to watch it [TS]

00:55:54   i also love that it was all those things [TS]

00:55:55   and it was just a great western [TS]

00:55:57   westworld gives good Western you've got [TS]

00:55:59   Indian attacks you've got an armored [TS]

00:56:01   train you've got robberies and twists [TS]

00:56:04   and shootouts that amazing sequence with [TS]

00:56:06   the men in black tied up to his horse [TS]

00:56:08   and having to cut himself free before [TS]

00:56:10   the horse hangs in there i just love [TS]

00:56:12   that it was a satisfying Western in [TS]

00:56:14   addition to being all those other thing [TS]

00:56:16   so I I want to talk a little bit about [TS]

00:56:19   expectations for season two but before [TS]

00:56:20   we get there there's one other point [TS]

00:56:22   that I wanted to to have us well on for [TS]

00:56:24   a moment which is the cast because there [TS]

00:56:27   are some people we haven't even talked [TS]

00:56:28   about we've talked about Anthony Hopkins [TS]

00:56:29   who does a great job and Harris is the [TS]

00:56:31   man in black and jimmi simpson as his [TS]

00:56:34   younger counterpart is an interesting [TS]

00:56:35   character but also evan rachel wood is [TS]

00:56:37   Dolores we haven't really talked about [TS]

00:56:39   it all and and thandie newton as maid [TS]

00:56:42   who initially you think it's going to be [TS]

00:56:44   kind of part of the part of the ensemble [TS]

00:56:46   and then becomes pivotal as the time [TS]

00:56:49   goes on [TS]

00:56:49   jeffrey wright james marsden it's such a [TS]

00:56:51   great cast the woman whose whose name I [TS]

00:56:54   can't pronounce who plays Teresa is also [TS]

00:56:56   really interesting actress [TS]

00:56:58   it's just it's an amazing cast of people [TS]

00:57:00   what is so good I almost don't single [TS]

00:57:02   her out because her performance is so [TS]

00:57:04   perfect that it's it's funny it's like [TS]

00:57:08   part of the it's such an integral part [TS]

00:57:10   of the show she almost doesn't stand out [TS]

00:57:12   for a good she is [TS]

00:57:13   yeah there's there are no weak links in [TS]

00:57:16   this cast i was really surprised [TS]

00:57:17   pleasantly by tested thompson who had [TS]

00:57:19   heard about but hadn't seen before and [TS]

00:57:21   then Jeffrey right i mean this is a man [TS]

00:57:23   who can steal the scene right out from [TS]

00:57:25   under al pacino if you've ever seen that [TS]

00:57:27   angels in america he he wipes the plot [TS]

00:57:30   the floor with Al Pacino in a monologue [TS]

00:57:31   that once you've seen it you'll never [TS]

00:57:32   forget it [TS]

00:57:33   I'd watch jeffrey wright read the phone [TS]

00:57:35   book and if you've got to have somebody [TS]

00:57:36   to stand up to anthony hopkins you get [TS]

00:57:38   Jeffrey right thing he has a heart for [TS]

00:57:40   the record jeffrey wright is playing [TS]

00:57:42   essentially the same character I think [TS]

00:57:44   he was playing in source code but it's a [TS]

00:57:46   good character and I liked that movie so [TS]

00:57:48   it's fine i saw jeffrey wright with [TS]

00:57:49   glasses on and I'm like oh I get it I [TS]

00:57:51   get what he's doing here and there was [TS]

00:57:53   way more there that's exactly what I [TS]

00:57:55   thought when I first night it's the same [TS]

00:57:57   thing it's like I'm sort of in charge of [TS]

00:57:58   people who are technical and there's a [TS]

00:58:00   secret and like a yeah okay I've seen [TS]

00:58:02   Jeff reading this before but he's he's [TS]

00:58:04   really good [TS]

00:58:04   the person who really surprised me and I [TS]

00:58:07   just didn't know she was that good [TS]

00:58:08   actress was because I know Tandy Newton [TS]

00:58:12   is a great actress you seem crash or [TS]

00:58:14   something like that but Evan Rachel Wood [TS]

00:58:16   yeah who knew [TS]

00:58:19   yes she could do that oh my god that [TS]

00:58:22   last scene where she's talking to why it [TS]

00:58:24   and it's just two completely different [TS]

00:58:27   people who happen to be the same actress [TS]

00:58:29   that [TS]

00:58:29   that's Tatiana maslany level stuff right [TS]

00:58:32   there [TS]

00:58:32   oh yeah just to get you creeping up over [TS]

00:58:34   the back of your chair [TS]

00:58:36   I mean I expect great performances from [TS]

00:58:38   anthony hopkins and Ed Harris and even [TS]

00:58:41   people like jamie Simpson you know [TS]

00:58:43   because they there are no names but [TS]

00:58:44   unless you've seen across the universe [TS]

00:58:47   and maybe a few weird commercials here [TS]

00:58:50   and there you've never seen Rachel evan [TS]

00:58:53   rachel wood [TS]

00:58:54   no I never had expectations / because i [TS]

00:58:55   don't think that senior anything before [TS]

00:58:57   so she just seemed like an expected [TS]

00:59:00   level of phenomenal yeah it was [TS]

00:59:02   delighted and seeing her in that opening [TS]

00:59:04   scene with the fly crawling across her [TS]

00:59:09   face she was the star of the first [TS]

00:59:11   episode like it but especially of any [TS]

00:59:13   part of the blood on her face and [TS]

00:59:14   everything and she's young she's in the [TS]

00:59:16   emotions off mode and they asked her to [TS]

00:59:17   tell her about your tell me about your [TS]

00:59:19   world and the small comes back in our [TS]

00:59:20   faces says this world like she always [TS]

00:59:23   carries get to repeat this kind of a fun [TS]

00:59:25   thing to do kind of a carbon black style [TS]

00:59:26   they get to repeat the same actions in [TS]

00:59:29   the same lines multiple times each time [TS]

00:59:31   with the they know that the audience [TS]

00:59:33   knows more about themselves and even [TS]

00:59:35   that like they give slightly different [TS]

00:59:37   performances but every time they they do [TS]

00:59:39   the same loop groundhog day is like a [TS]

00:59:41   style yet taken takes on a different [TS]

00:59:43   meaning and I think a lot of evan rachel [TS]

00:59:45   wood in the beginning it's like oh she's [TS]

00:59:47   playing the perfect farmer's daughter [TS]

00:59:48   wishes who she's supposed to play in the [TS]

00:59:50   world and with her slapping the flying [TS]

00:59:51   her neck after so when I was like oh you [TS]

00:59:53   gotta watch out for that one but as the [TS]

00:59:55   season wore on let's see the moronic ok [TS]

00:59:58   well maybe I was wrong [TS]

00:59:58   well maybe I was wrong [TS]

01:00:00   wrong about that because I see they're [TS]

01:00:01   doing made storyline and she just mostly [TS]

01:00:02   seems confused and you know and she's [TS]

01:00:05   like she wasn't she wasn't becoming like [TS]

01:00:07   the dangerous leader of the robot [TS]

01:00:09   rebellion until the end and then I by [TS]

01:00:11   the end of it like you're so used to her [TS]

01:00:13   being the farmer's daughter and and you [TS]

01:00:15   know she means well and everyone she [TS]

01:00:17   opened up a can of whoop-ass on in [TS]

01:00:19   episode 5 contrapposto for she's with [TS]

01:00:22   William anyway you can just get their [TS]

01:00:24   pants on set up her skirt and she's got [TS]

01:00:26   her gun and all the stuff like that but [TS]

01:00:27   you know you know that's in the past [TS]

01:00:29   eventually like for her character to [TS]

01:00:31   turn to the end to be to be such as to [TS]

01:00:33   become like that was such a great climax [TS]

01:00:36   of thing and the actress pulled it off [TS]

01:00:37   like she knew I believed her as the [TS]

01:00:40   scary dangerous eventual leader of this [TS]

01:00:43   whole thing and it's to do that after [TS]

01:00:45   all right when she comes up behind Teddy [TS]

01:00:47   and says it's ok it's gonna be ok tedi [TS]

01:00:50   yeah it's not just our world not theirs [TS]

01:00:53   right the moment uh in episode one that [TS]

01:00:56   is the thing that they hang on every [TS]

01:00:59   major wood and dolores that you have to [TS]

01:01:00   remember the rest of the show is there's [TS]

01:01:03   a great little bit of its world building [TS]

01:01:07   but it also shows you the levels of like [TS]

01:01:10   programming in these on these house is [TS]

01:01:13   actually tell her to cut out the accent [TS]

01:01:15   right and she goes from having that kind [TS]

01:01:18   of country accent to being a completely [TS]

01:01:20   aspect lists kind of sort of like [TS]

01:01:22   generic accent and it's 70 like there's [TS]

01:01:24   no she says no no no yes [TS]

01:01:27   romantic right everything you do is [TS]

01:01:29   since had such a strange strange [TS]

01:01:31   treatment and all the actors are all the [TS]

01:01:33   ones who are playing house are so very [TS]

01:01:35   good at being inhuman when they're [TS]

01:01:37   supposed to be in switching right back [TS]

01:01:38   to being human is probably exercise that [TS]

01:01:40   actors do like you know write it off and [TS]

01:01:42   turn it back on but now it serves a [TS]

01:01:44   story purpose actors do accents all the [TS]

01:01:46   time too but but in the CIA in the show [TS]

01:01:48   you see it you're like oh you know like [TS]

01:01:50   that that informs Dolores and it is a [TS]

01:01:51   good performance [TS]

01:01:52   alright so 10 episodes were over it's [TS]

01:01:55   done and it's not coming back for a year [TS]

01:01:57   so I have to ask before we go where do [TS]

01:02:00   we go from here we saw a glimpse of [TS]

01:02:03   samurai world baby [TS]

01:02:05   and we've got a robot uprising happening [TS]

01:02:07   we see Dolores shoot a bunch of people [TS]

01:02:10   but we don't see exactly who she shoots [TS]

01:02:12   which is nice too [TS]

01:02:13   keep your options open obviously [TS]

01:02:15   adherents the man in black has been shot [TS]

01:02:17   he's been wing by a by a gunshot from [TS]

01:02:19   any saliva and was delighted by that [TS]

01:02:22   oh yeah so what what what what are your [TS]

01:02:24   expectations what what are you curious [TS]

01:02:25   about what you want to see so in my and [TS]

01:02:28   my fondest dreams i hope that the way [TS]

01:02:31   this show stays fresh cause this is a [TS]

01:02:33   problem like i think season one you have [TS]

01:02:35   a beautiful tight season which I think [TS]

01:02:36   they did that you know hat pattern are [TS]

01:02:38   conducted and deliver it was very [TS]

01:02:39   satisfying just overall like a beautiful [TS]

01:02:42   little gem right it's hard to repeat [TS]

01:02:44   that because all the things they [TS]

01:02:45   revealed already revealed and if you're [TS]

01:02:46   gonna turn this into a show reveals its [TS]

01:02:48   hard to keep it straight freshdesk [TS]

01:02:50   people lost my dream is that the next [TS]

01:02:53   season somehow involves to have a [TS]

01:02:57   different setting we saw Samurai world [TS]

01:02:59   there could be multiple parks i would [TS]

01:03:01   love season one to be the Old West [TS]

01:03:03   season and season two of the [TS]

01:03:05   increasingly inappropriate [TS]

01:03:06   inappropriately named westworld to be [TS]

01:03:07   all about samurais and season 3 to be [TS]

01:03:10   about ancient Roman season for like just [TS]

01:03:11   to keep going like to keep it fresh by [TS]

01:03:13   changing the setting I that would make [TS]

01:03:17   it so it's not just like you're not just [TS]

01:03:18   watching a Western season after season [TS]

01:03:20   after season because that mean that's [TS]

01:03:22   problematic in the you know you would [TS]

01:03:24   imagine that if something goes wrong [TS]

01:03:26   with the old west park maybe they would [TS]

01:03:28   bury it and build Star Wars land on top [TS]

01:03:30   of it or whatever right like that's a [TS]

01:03:32   way to keep the show fresh my hope is [TS]

01:03:34   that the show i'm trying to another show [TS]

01:03:37   that does this a lot i guess maybe the [TS]

01:03:39   100 100 does not get stuck in a rut then [TS]

01:03:41   whatever you want to say about the 100 [TS]

01:03:43   they jumped from promising surrounding [TS]

01:03:46   and context and and characters to the [TS]

01:03:48   next the next to the multiple season so [TS]

01:03:50   I was excited by saying summer world [TS]

01:03:52   that's what I'm hoping you know [TS]

01:03:52   realistically speaking i'm assuming [TS]

01:03:54   anything happens not coming back so I'm [TS]

01:03:56   not gonna make any predictions about oh [TS]

01:03:57   that wasn't really him it was the host [TS]

01:03:58   version i don't think he's coming back [TS]

01:04:00   for another season hello [TS]

01:04:01   they'll be great plot totally not his [TS]

01:04:03   mom died for every episode yeah yeah but [TS]

01:04:05   like but this was a great setup and it [TS]

01:04:07   seems like the next season i would like [TS]

01:04:09   a new setting and i would like the robot [TS]

01:04:11   rebellion to be forcefully quashed in a [TS]

01:04:15   way that is disappointing to viewers [TS]

01:04:16   only to have a bubble back up and have [TS]

01:04:19   that all happened in a samurai setting [TS]

01:04:20   with new characters like this have to [TS]

01:04:22   get some new host in the next [TS]

01:04:24   but after that season one they can go [TS]

01:04:26   almost anywhere anywhere that doesn't [TS]

01:04:28   involve anthony hopkins they can go and [TS]

01:04:29   they have you know if the same crew is [TS]

01:04:32   involved and have the same tight [TS]

01:04:33   storytelling like that's that's the the [TS]

01:04:35   my my takeaway from season one is they [TS]

01:04:38   were so careful to build this into a [TS]

01:04:41   thing that makes sense and I like them [TS]

01:04:43   both satisfying the internet fanatics by [TS]

01:04:46   putting so many hints in there that if [TS]

01:04:49   you are fanatic you figured out way [TS]

01:04:50   early but also the internet Fornax [TS]

01:04:54   necessarily spun off into crazy theories [TS]

01:04:56   that didn't make sense and it's like [TS]

01:04:58   don't ever think you guys are are things [TS]

01:05:00   make sense they're not fantastical we're [TS]

01:05:03   not trying to trick you they played fair [TS]

01:05:05   with all their things and on the other [TS]

01:05:06   side of the people aren't obsessively [TS]

01:05:08   reading fan sites and they just they [TS]

01:05:09   just kept putting information out [TS]

01:05:11   episode after episode see this see this [TS]

01:05:13   see this like four episodes worth of [TS]

01:05:15   hints for the man in black and William [TS]

01:05:16   right to bring and then by the time it [TS]

01:05:18   to the final reveal did the review like [TS]

01:05:19   nine times to make sure is everybody [TS]

01:05:21   getting in matchcover putting the hat on [TS]

01:05:23   like and then they have to have him say [TS]

01:05:25   the words I am William in some ways like [TS]

01:05:27   I find that less satisfying than a show [TS]

01:05:29   that demands that everybody should be [TS]

01:05:32   everybody get the one more so that they [TS]

01:05:34   drop right because those shows are [TS]

01:05:36   sometimes fun but they're not fun for [TS]

01:05:38   most people because if you missed the [TS]

01:05:39   morsel then you feel like you have to [TS]

01:05:40   read a fansite 23 what the hell's going [TS]

01:05:42   on [TS]

01:05:42   westworld let everybody have that car on [TS]

01:05:45   the train tracks and train moment [TS]

01:05:46   whenever they had that moment it didn't [TS]

01:05:48   demand everybody had all the sense [TS]

01:05:50   exactly what happened for my wife you [TS]

01:05:52   know she figured it out right before she [TS]

01:05:56   watched episode 10 [TS]

01:05:57   yeah and it and any anytime you have [TS]

01:05:59   that moment as long as it's like as long [TS]

01:06:01   as you think of it as being before the [TS]

01:06:03   quote-unquote reveal it satisfying [TS]

01:06:05   because you're mean I had the same thing [TS]

01:06:07   I'm like oh i see what they're like with [TS]

01:06:09   the split timelines when I had that [TS]

01:06:10   revelation which was after the internet [TS]

01:06:12   but before you know three episodes [TS]

01:06:13   before the quote-unquote real reveal [TS]

01:06:15   once i saw that they were doing like [TS]

01:06:16   this the big smile comes across your [TS]

01:06:18   face and then and then after the show [TS]

01:06:20   and frankly going to have to make sure [TS]

01:06:21   i'm not crazy like no one has it all [TS]

01:06:24   figured out before hit us the internet [TS]

01:06:26   to find out you're not crazy [TS]

01:06:27   get it get a second opinion [TS]

01:06:29   yeah so season 1i think and I think [TS]

01:06:32   that's novel because I guess that most [TS]

01:06:34   shows you their don't aren't well [TS]

01:06:36   constructed or dishonest with their plot [TS]

01:06:39   points or like they don't play fair you [TS]

01:06:41   know mean they're like a hot we're [TS]

01:06:42   smarter than you are going to use all [TS]

01:06:43   you didn't play fair right or everything [TS]

01:06:45   has to be equally fantastic allure and I [TS]

01:06:47   still like the shows the shows they're [TS]

01:06:49   super subtle and precise and you really [TS]

01:06:53   have to pay attention you have to have a [TS]

01:06:54   lot of background knowledge and a one [TS]

01:06:56   word phrase said by some person you have [TS]

01:06:58   to like do you know dig down three [TS]

01:07:01   levels of subtext to realize that they [TS]

01:07:02   just revealed this important plot point [TS]

01:07:03   they're never going to revisit it and [TS]

01:07:05   you just have to understand it and know [TS]

01:07:06   it [TS]

01:07:06   those are satisfying to but West world [TS]

01:07:08   was i I can't think of a show that is [TS]

01:07:10   comfortable in terms of accessibility [TS]

01:07:12   yeah like being being fair being solid [TS]

01:07:15   being interesting and also having yet [TS]

01:07:18   accessible to all levels like it it does [TS]

01:07:21   like a graceful degradation in a website [TS]

01:07:22   it works if you have JavaScript on or [TS]

01:07:24   off so that's the famous the famous [TS]

01:07:26   story God that they came up at the [TS]

01:07:28   television critics association this to a [TS]

01:07:30   press tour this summer is that they shut [TS]

01:07:32   down production on West world after like [TS]

01:07:34   three episodes got delayed and then [TS]

01:07:36   people like a troubled production and [TS]

01:07:37   what the producer said at the TCA was [TS]

01:07:40   actually we got a couple episodes in and [TS]

01:07:42   realize we didn't have his firm of a [TS]

01:07:44   understanding of the rules of the [TS]

01:07:46   universe as we thought we needed and and [TS]

01:07:50   since we're putting a lot of money into [TS]

01:07:51   this and HBO's investing in this and [TS]

01:07:53   obviously you know you don't make a show [TS]

01:07:55   to go on for one season and get [TS]

01:07:56   cancelled you the goal here is to run [TS]

01:07:58   for a while and make a lot of money for [TS]

01:08:00   your studio and for HBO and they shut [TS]

01:08:02   down production and what they said is [TS]

01:08:04   they locked down everything it's like he [TS]

01:08:07   did they lock down this season and they [TS]

01:08:09   locked down the future storylines and [TS]

01:08:10   they lock down the rules of the world [TS]

01:08:12   and I think it shows i'm gonna i'm [TS]

01:08:14   inclined to believe them that they that [TS]

01:08:16   the producers had this moment which is [TS]

01:08:17   like oh we can't make this thing up as [TS]

01:08:19   we go along we really need to get this [TS]

01:08:21   right and so let's pause and do that and [TS]

01:08:24   you can see it is like from start to [TS]

01:08:26   finish it feels consistent in a way that [TS]

01:08:29   that you know is impressive [TS]

01:08:32   this is a much more satisfying puzzle [TS]

01:08:33   box right where yeah i mean that it that [TS]

01:08:35   you know they give you a [TS]

01:08:37   a couple pieces and some crazy person on [TS]

01:08:39   the internet is going to be able to [TS]

01:08:40   conjecture you know enough enough [TS]

01:08:42   monkeys enough typewriter somebody's [TS]

01:08:43   going to put something out that could be [TS]

01:08:45   the right answer and some people only [TS]

01:08:47   need two pieces of the puzzle and some [TS]

01:08:48   people need seven and some people need [TS]

01:08:50   to see the whole puzzle assembled in [TS]

01:08:51   front of them but that's it that's a [TS]

01:08:53   good puzzle box is what it fits together [TS]

01:08:55   not when it's like note we've been [TS]

01:08:56   faking you out the whole time we're [TS]

01:08:58   going to do this crazy thing that you [TS]

01:08:59   know comes comes out of left field [TS]

01:09:01   so Tony Tony is that what you want you [TS]

01:09:03   want to the puzzle box for a second [TS]

01:09:05   season i would like more puzzle box for [TS]

01:09:07   second season i am really curious to see [TS]

01:09:08   what they're gonna do I i think a change [TS]

01:09:11   in setting or maybe a jump forward in [TS]

01:09:13   time would be a key to keeping me [TS]

01:09:15   interested in having more interesting [TS]

01:09:17   questions that they explore what I don't [TS]

01:09:20   think they will do and I hope they don't [TS]

01:09:21   do is like let's do five episodes of the [TS]

01:09:24   robot uprising and people running and [TS]

01:09:25   cutting across the park [TS]

01:09:27   I mean I wouldn't mind up and i feel [TS]

01:09:28   like i can get that somewhere else to be [TS]

01:09:30   able to put down those robots it's not [TS]

01:09:31   like the only humans the entire world as [TS]

01:09:33   far as we know are running the park like [TS]

01:09:35   you need to put down a rebellion pretty [TS]

01:09:37   quickly you can even blow their blow all [TS]

01:09:39   their spines but not may have sprained [TS]

01:09:41   yeah I mean yeah maybe maybe I I feel [TS]

01:09:44   like we don't need to see lengthy robot [TS]

01:09:47   rebellion that sounds really expensive [TS]

01:09:49   right [TS]

01:09:49   yeah so I'm i think some kind of jump [TS]

01:09:52   forward possibly in time and maybe to [TS]

01:09:54   another place would be would be [TS]

01:09:55   interesting so that's I think that's [TS]

01:09:57   what I'm looking for [TS]

01:09:58   I'm confident enough in these [TS]

01:10:00   storytellers that they could keep all [TS]

01:10:02   five seasons that they planned right [TS]

01:10:04   there in West world because i think they [TS]

01:10:06   can tell interesting stories the [TS]

01:10:08   location doesn't matter as long as it's [TS]

01:10:11   interesting and there's drama and I want [TS]

01:10:15   characters that I care about right now I [TS]

01:10:18   want to get invested in it [TS]

01:10:20   I want a little puzzle box but it [TS]

01:10:22   doesn't have to be quite as intricate as [TS]

01:10:24   this season you know but little puzzle [TS]

01:10:27   box is nice but I i like the fact that [TS]

01:10:30   they they wrapped a bow up on most [TS]

01:10:33   things this season and it was [TS]

01:10:35   self-contained I'd like him to do that [TS]

01:10:37   in a second season and what I [TS]

01:10:39   desperately desperately don't want is I [TS]

01:10:42   don't want lost or the fourth season of [TS]

01:10:45   battlestar galactica [TS]

01:10:47   alright Sarafina yeah nobody wanted mean [TS]

01:10:49   I feel like that there are couple loose [TS]

01:10:51   threads from the season but they're [TS]

01:10:52   always think they could just drop they [TS]

01:10:54   have a house on yesterday's to lead you [TS]

01:10:55   have an X easy if you try everything [TS]

01:10:57   literally as you know you're going to [TS]

01:10:59   cancel this pointless [TS]

01:11:00   yes plenty of expectations for next [TS]

01:11:03   season [TS]

01:11:03   there's some seeds that were planted [TS]

01:11:05   that we're waiting to see if they bloom [TS]

01:11:06   or they just enough time like I it's [TS]

01:11:08   interesting for a show like this i don't [TS]

01:11:10   know about the production method how [TS]

01:11:12   tightly they have to shoot i know the [TS]

01:11:14   HBO gives them a lot of leeway so [TS]

01:11:15   there's things are like did they [TS]

01:11:16   actually shoot some bits and they didn't [TS]

01:11:19   have that they need four minutes or [TS]

01:11:20   three minutes 30 minutes and they cut it [TS]

01:11:22   so like LC and stops we've talked about [TS]

01:11:24   a lot like the characters were being set [TS]

01:11:26   up in early episodes to have some part [TS]

01:11:28   of an arc like to be you know players [TS]

01:11:30   and it not movers probably and they [TS]

01:11:32   disappeared the ghost station was kind [TS]

01:11:35   of presented as this like arts and [TS]

01:11:36   Native American trope and they're using [TS]

01:11:38   them a certain way although they're [TS]

01:11:39   incredibly terrifying and there may be a [TS]

01:11:43   metaphor for what's to come in terms of [TS]

01:11:45   what all the robots are going to do [TS]

01:11:47   they're all going to be sort of like [TS]

01:11:48   those nations completely brutal against [TS]

01:11:50   what they see as incurring incursions on [TS]

01:11:53   their world it's a perfect little you [TS]

01:11:54   know subtextual metaphor but i have a [TS]

01:11:57   feeling that we're gonna agree with a [TS]

01:11:59   lot of people's sentiments I think we're [TS]

01:12:01   gonna jump forward in time because did I [TS]

01:12:04   don't think that's going to pick up that [TS]

01:12:05   doesn't make any sense we're gonna come [TS]

01:12:06   back to it [TS]

01:12:07   we've already seen how much they like to [TS]

01:12:08   do in our Laird timelines and how well [TS]

01:12:10   they can maintain them all I think LC [TS]

01:12:13   and stubs are going to be someone [TS]

01:12:14   pointed out this is not exactly a [TS]

01:12:15   spoiler the day Louis website changed [TS]

01:12:17   the website world website the public one [TS]

01:12:19   changed and Elsie's voices on there [TS]

01:12:21   somewhere [TS]

01:12:22   so the idea there is resistance like the [TS]

01:12:24   my thinking is the whole park is locked [TS]

01:12:27   down its we locked up for some period of [TS]

01:12:28   time any large part of the season and [TS]

01:12:30   will be a subplot about human resistance [TS]

01:12:32   inside the remaining guests and QA and [TS]

01:12:35   so forth [TS]

01:12:36   who are trying to fight and then [TS]

01:12:37   factions of hosts fighting for what the [TS]

01:12:40   intent is how interesting that can be i [TS]

01:12:42   don't know and i made me totally off [TS]

01:12:45   base but then as the season progresses [TS]

01:12:46   they haven't seen two hearts is the [TS]

01:12:48   outside world breaks through in and it's [TS]

01:12:51   a whole different ballgame again we find [TS]

01:12:53   out we got information finally about [TS]

01:12:54   what's outside the park but i think we [TS]

01:12:56   will see some breakthrough to other [TS]

01:12:57   worlds that I think the semi world was a [TS]

01:12:59   hint [TS]

01:13:00   wonderful season season 2 they may be [TS]

01:13:01   planning for later but i think it's [TS]

01:13:03   clear that if you're liberating one [TS]

01:13:05   world you're gonna liberate all the [TS]

01:13:06   worlds right yeah yeah i'd like to see [TS]

01:13:08   like a political thriller where the [TS]

01:13:10   world's all become self-aware and then [TS]

01:13:12   they become sort of like wearing [TS]

01:13:13   nation-states trying to ally with each [TS]

01:13:15   other against the outside world but also [TS]

01:13:17   you know with intrigues among each other [TS]

01:13:20   that would be pretty cool that factions [TS]

01:13:23   make sense [TS]

01:13:23   Kelly do you have goals for next year I [TS]

01:13:25   do um one of so first of all I wanted to [TS]

01:13:28   see that this season really strikes me [TS]

01:13:30   as a masterclass like I i would like for [TS]

01:13:33   future that people who wish to make [TS]

01:13:37   interesting engaging television to [TS]

01:13:40   basically study this and see all of the [TS]

01:13:44   balance in it where we got bows on some [TS]

01:13:47   storylines some of them got buttons and [TS]

01:13:49   some of them didn't and like what the [TS]

01:13:51   effect of those things were and how all [TS]

01:13:55   of the crazy see rest's were along for [TS]

01:13:57   the ride and yet people who didn't read [TS]

01:13:59   anything on the internet we're along for [TS]

01:14:01   the ride and and and like all of the [TS]

01:14:03   things that they did where they were [TS]

01:14:06   able to strike a balance between two [TS]

01:14:08   pretty extremes was was really [TS]

01:14:11   impressive to me and like the the way it [TS]

01:14:15   looked [TS]

01:14:16   you know you can't fake 35 millimeter [TS]

01:14:18   like period [TS]

01:14:20   you can't fake putting Soundgarden and [TS]

01:14:23   radiohead on a player piano is the old [TS]

01:14:26   way that you mention that I'm glad you [TS]

01:14:28   mentioned that the music in this and [TS]

01:14:29   this and especially all the radiohead [TS]

01:14:31   was great it was really enjoyable the [TS]

01:14:34   athan was just saying in our back [TS]

01:14:36   channel about Maeve's tour of hell with [TS]

01:14:40   fake plastic trees playing in the [TS]

01:14:42   background was amazing it looks like the [TS]

01:14:44   real thing tastes like the real thing my [TS]

01:14:46   fake plastic girl I was just yeah and an [TS]

01:14:49   exit music from a film at the end of [TS]

01:14:51   episode 10 [TS]

01:14:53   with with at the end of the kind of [TS]

01:14:55   underscore v of the west-world theme [TS]

01:14:56   coming back and under it just chills [TS]

01:14:58   yeah all's the first line of that song [TS]

01:15:01   is wake from your sleep oh yeah like [TS]

01:15:04   just start there okay so anybody who's [TS]

01:15:06   not a huge Radiohead fan go check that [TS]

01:15:08   out a and the other thing I was that [TS]

01:15:11   that i am hoping and for the show not [TS]

01:15:15   just for the sex for the second season [TS]

01:15:16   is um that they have an end in mind [TS]

01:15:21   whatever that end game might be that [TS]

01:15:23   they know how everything ties up because [TS]

01:15:27   i really i really need for that to [TS]

01:15:29   happen I know these are things that [TS]

01:15:30   we've talked about before but I think [TS]

01:15:32   that's sort of what happened to [TS]

01:15:33   battlestar galactica and we know that's [TS]

01:15:35   what happened in season three of lost [TS]

01:15:36   they didn't know how far they were gonna [TS]

01:15:38   go so they sort of took season 3 to [TS]

01:15:40   figure it out and I didn't like where [TS]

01:15:43   they were going but I i do it like that [TS]

01:15:45   at least they had an endpoint that they [TS]

01:15:48   aimed for um we can discuss execution on [TS]

01:15:51   another show but like at least they [TS]

01:15:53   ended up with one and they executed it [TS]

01:15:55   if they did damn it [TS]

01:15:57   um but like I i like when someone goes [TS]

01:16:00   in knowing that this is how much story [TS]

01:16:02   they're going is going to be told or at [TS]

01:16:03   least how it's going to end so that we [TS]

01:16:05   know how to get out of it [TS]

01:16:06   one of the things that sticks with me [TS]

01:16:08   about this season is that that relates [TS]

01:16:11   directly to next season is I'm not [TS]

01:16:14   entirely certain that we need to go [TS]

01:16:16   forward in time at all because we could [TS]

01:16:18   also go back remember LC goes to a place [TS]

01:16:21   that is unused that seems to be sort of [TS]

01:16:24   some sort of cold storage situation and [TS]

01:16:26   it looks like ren faire world [TS]

01:16:28   yeah and one of the things that was [TS]

01:16:30   interesting was when the doors opened [TS]

01:16:31   and we saw the guy that was like the [TS]

01:16:35   host that was sort of part of the pillar [TS]

01:16:36   when we get to the samurai world level [TS]

01:16:38   and then we see all the samurai in the [TS]

01:16:42   room in samurai world and i went is it [TS]

01:16:45   samurai world or something and then her [TS]

01:16:48   i think i said Japan world and we saw [TS]

01:16:50   the logo and it was the ash from the W [TS]

01:16:52   and I went oh my god it's samurai world [TS]

01:16:55   and then Felix said it's complicated and [TS]

01:16:57   my husband said so what level is future [TS]

01:17:00   world and I was like [TS]

01:17:02   no go back to that so that's really what [TS]

01:17:07   i'm hoping and mostly I was really [TS]

01:17:10   excited because I wasn't super deep into [TS]

01:17:13   the crazy theory stuff and but I was [TS]

01:17:15   more than a casual viewer and so for me [TS]

01:17:18   in the middle of the road it was a great [TS]

01:17:20   show i had so much fun with it [TS]

01:17:21   I really loved all of the paying off and [TS]

01:17:24   so I almost can forgive them for needing [TS]

01:17:28   a year plus to make sure that they get [TS]

01:17:30   everything right because most i'm at the [TS]

01:17:33   almost because I'm really antsy to find [TS]

01:17:35   out what's next so what I what I hope is [TS]

01:17:39   next isn't even season two what I want [TS]

01:17:41   is the kind of thing that they were [TS]

01:17:43   doing between a couple of seasons for [TS]

01:17:47   lost because lost was a show that ended [TS]

01:17:49   very early in the year in the TV season [TS]

01:17:51   and started very late in the TV season [TS]

01:17:53   and so they started doing these arg [TS]

01:17:56   games alternate reality games where you [TS]

01:17:58   could get like weird voicemail messages [TS]

01:18:00   from people and the occasional random [TS]

01:18:02   email with a secret link in it and on [TS]

01:18:04   and on and like now that the world is so [TS]

01:18:07   much more mobile and so much more [TS]

01:18:09   connected and so much more into digging [TS]

01:18:11   for that stuff i want that i want to be [TS]

01:18:14   able to go like reading newspapers [TS]

01:18:18   updates you know sort of like the world [TS]

01:18:20   building stuff that they did for Wally [TS]

01:18:22   where you could go way down in the by [TS]

01:18:25   and large youtube channel and see all [TS]

01:18:27   kinds of crazy product videos for stuff [TS]

01:18:29   and I really want to do that you have a [TS]

01:18:31   career in marketing didn't mention i [TS]

01:18:35   want that so bad because i want to play [TS]

01:18:38   it so very much and I really really [TS]

01:18:40   really hope that's what happens but you [TS]

01:18:43   know I feel like everybody else like [TS]

01:18:44   given the people in front of the camera [TS]

01:18:47   and given the people behind the camera [TS]

01:18:48   whatever comes next [TS]

01:18:50   I'm really really looking forward to it [TS]

01:18:52   because it's going to be a lot of fun [TS]

01:18:53   well let the brand extensions begin [TS]

01:18:55   because we do have the time we do have [TS]

01:18:57   the time for it [TS]

01:18:58   yeah I'm excited about about when it [TS]

01:19:01   comes back i look forward to it this was [TS]

01:19:02   a lot of fun it was a fun ride [TS]

01:19:04   I my expectations were basically [TS]

01:19:07   non-existent and I I i was pleasantly [TS]

01:19:10   surprised throughout enjoyed the whole [TS]

01:19:12   ride and and there's so many different [TS]

01:19:14   places to go [TS]

01:19:15   I'm looking forward to it i'm looking [TS]

01:19:17   forward to it being a more meta and more [TS]

01:19:19   weird weird twists and mashups of the [TS]

01:19:23   present you know the present and past [TS]

01:19:25   ropes and stuff like that but we're [TS]

01:19:28   going to wrap it up here for this [TS]

01:19:29   episode of the incomparable I have [TS]

01:19:31   nothing left to do but thank my [TS]

01:19:33   wonderful guests for being here [TS]

01:19:35   Don melton thank you so much for being [TS]

01:19:37   on the uncomfortable good thankyou [TS]

01:19:39   thankyou for letting me barge my way [TS]

01:19:40   into the shower happy that you were here [TS]

01:19:42   and I'm glad that you and Kelly get to [TS]

01:19:44   do your podcast about West world and i [TS]

01:19:46   look forward to you guys coming back for [TS]

01:19:48   Season 22 how about that you don't have [TS]

01:19:51   to wait that long we're gonna do a [TS]

01:19:52   rewatch yeah oh right I look all right [TS]

01:19:55   you can get it all at the incomparable [TS]

01:19:56   comm check it out so Kelly come on thank [TS]

01:19:59   you so much for being here thank you so [TS]

01:20:01   much for having me on my first official [TS]

01:20:02   incomparable piano huh [TS]

01:20:04   right fleischmann thank you for being [TS]

01:20:06   here thank you and fries [TS]

01:20:08   Jason smartphones but they were frozen [TS]

01:20:10   long ago to come [TS]

01:20:12   Nathan alderman glad to have you back [TS]

01:20:13   again thank you for being here glad to [TS]

01:20:14   be here and now i want to see a version [TS]

01:20:16   of jurassic park where I'm rooting for [TS]

01:20:18   the dinosaurs to eat the humans [TS]

01:20:19   oh you weren't in the original a little [TS]

01:20:22   bit through the Jurassic Park is part [TS]

01:20:23   number three and the the dinosaurs are [TS]

01:20:26   intelligent that would be could that [TS]

01:20:29   concern me just their case thank you i [TS]

01:20:31   know things will work out the way [TS]

01:20:32   they're man to delete accent is a path [TS]

01:20:38   for all of us and it leads us back to [TS]

01:20:40   your Jason and Tony sindelar thank you [TS]

01:20:43   how can you learn from mistakes you [TS]

01:20:44   don't podcast them all right well that [TS]

01:20:48   is that's it for this episode of the [TS]

01:20:50   uncomfortable thanks everybody out there [TS]

01:20:52   for listening thanks to my panel we will [TS]

01:20:53   see you next week bye everybody [TS]

01:21:00   [Music] [TS]