27: The Batman of Cheese


00:00:00   *BEEP*

00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 27.

00:00:13   Today's show is brought to you by lynda.com, where you can instantly stream thousands of

00:00:17   courses created by industry experts, igloo, an internet you'll actually like, and PDFPen7 from

00:00:23   Smile. Take control of PDFs on your Mac. My name is Myke Hurley, but I am joined, as always,

00:00:28   by your host of mine, the one and only Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:31   Hi, Myke. How's it going?

00:00:32   I'm very well, sir. How are you?

00:00:34   I'm doing good. We were just realizing that at this moment that we record this,

00:00:39   one week from this moment is the big upgrade meetup in central London.

00:00:46   First annual, right?

00:00:47   Sure. Sure. We'll use the coffers of Relay FM to do future meetups. Well,

00:00:54   people will come and visit you. It's sort of a pilgrimage to see Myke in London. You have to

00:00:59   go to the man if the man won't come to you, you know. So yes, we'll be there. We have details now

00:01:06   of where we will be. We're going to record in the King's Cross area. We're going to record in person

00:01:11   an episode of Upgrade next week, and then we will unhook all of the technical things and all of that,

00:01:19   and we will go to the meetup, which will be at 6 o'clock, or as you might say, 1800 GMT.

00:01:27   And where is it going to be?

00:01:28   So, it's at a place I've been to a few times in King's Cross called the Big Chill House.

00:01:33   The reason I chose this place, it's got some nice large areas, because we have no way of

00:01:38   -- well, you know, we could have done a thing where people had to get tickets, but I kind

00:01:41   of didn't really feel that that would be necessary.

00:01:44   So it's a really big venue, and it has lots of, like, rooms and stuff like that, so it

00:01:49   will definitely be able to I hope unless thousands of people descend on Kings

00:01:53   Cross thousands of swarms of up gradients it will probably be able to house

00:01:57   everybody that comes down it'll be really great and me and Jason will be

00:02:00   there and we'll be sharing beverages and it will be a fun time so if you are in

00:02:04   London or in the surrounding areas and you can make it starting at 6 p.m. over

00:02:10   at the Big Chill house in Kings Cross we would love to see you. Indeed. And yeah

00:02:17   this is uh is for upgrade but if you listen to any incomparable shows any

00:02:21   relay shows and you enjoy them then you should come yeah yeah if you want to

00:02:25   listen I mean the people listening to this on upgrade you are already invited

00:02:28   but I'm gonna mention it to the people who if they if they know us from other

00:02:33   other venues from other relay shows that as you said are incomparable or six

00:02:38   colors in Mac world and all that everybody everybody welcome we will be

00:02:42   we will be there. I will be drinking beer of some sort or other and probably

00:02:48   dark a dork a dark sort also a dork sort. A dorky kind of beer. Nerdy beer. So look for that

00:02:57   look for the giant nerds drinking beer and and we'll be there so I'm excited

00:03:01   I'm excited about equally about the meetup and also the the in-person

00:03:08   episode of Upgrade. We're gonna do two of those in the next two weeks one in

00:03:12   England and one in Ireland.

00:03:14   So...

00:03:15   It's the upgrade on tour right now.

00:03:17   We should get t-shirts made.

00:03:18   Yeah, sure, why not?

00:03:21   They're t-shirts for everything else.

00:03:22   Why not this?

00:03:23   Yeah, so this should be a lot of fun.

00:03:26   And we were saying right before we started that, and it's much more a relay your feels

00:03:31   kind of aspect of it.

00:03:33   But I'm at that moment coming out of the insanity of last week with the Apple event.

00:03:39   And in my new life as an independent writer and podcaster and also a freelancer, planning

00:03:47   for a two-week trip is very different because I don't have like a staff to do, "Can you

00:03:51   do this for me?

00:03:52   Can you do that for me?"

00:03:53   I kind of like have to keep things going and I have to figure out when I'm going to write

00:03:59   things and I've been stockpiling podcasts to release while I'm gone.

00:04:05   As of tomorrow I'm going to be five weeks ahead with the incomparable, because there's

00:04:09   going to be a big gap when we're not going to be able to record anything.

00:04:13   And so it's kind of crazy.

00:04:15   And then I'm also going to be away from my family for a couple weeks, which is sad, but

00:04:18   I will be with my pals on the other side of the Atlantic, and so I'm looking forward to

00:04:22   that.

00:04:23   Right.

00:04:24   We have a little bit of follow-out, and a very special vertical to address.

00:04:30   Oh yes.

00:04:32   Yes.

00:04:33   We had Federico on last week.

00:04:35   I ambushed you on a podcast with Federico and that was great.

00:04:41   That was a classic moment.

00:04:42   We got a lot of feedback from people who thought it was great.

00:04:45   We thought it was great, so we're glad you thought it was great too.

00:04:47   Almost killed Myke, but you know.

00:04:49   Nailing, very nailing.

00:04:52   And Federico, he was just smiling while the whole thing was going on, like, "Oh, this

00:04:58   is really going to get Myke."

00:05:00   Oh, it was, that was beautiful.

00:05:03   But his more broad story of his trip to San Francisco and the Apple event and all that

00:05:07   is on Connected 30, so people should listen to that if they want to hear more from Federico

00:05:11   about that trip to San Francisco.

00:05:14   And then he also wrote a piece on Mac Stories about it.

00:05:15   But a good place to start if you are a podcast listener, which you are because you're listening

00:05:20   to this podcast, would be Connected 30 to hear more from Federico.

00:05:25   So I have a little story.

00:05:26   About a week or so ago, it was about 8 p.m. in the evening and I was working on one of

00:05:33   the scripts are inquisitive I was in another room in the house just kind of

00:05:36   trying to get a different perspective and working on something I was stuck

00:05:39   with and then there was a knock at the door this is 8 p.m. at night I was very

00:05:42   surprised didn't really understand why anybody would be knocking on the door at

00:05:46   8 p.m. at night and I opened the door and there is a man standing over a package

00:05:49   for me and I didn't I had no idea why this would be happening so late in the

00:05:56   evening and a package I wasn't expecting so he gives me the package and it just

00:06:01   says on the side of the box the word pong p-o-n-g. I had been telling you that a package

00:06:06   from pong was coming for you. That was when it all started to click into place. I tore

00:06:13   open this box to find inside some chili jam and some manchego cheese. It finally had arrived

00:06:20   Jason had had teased me with the cheese for long enough but the fine made sheep cheese

00:06:28   of Manchago has arrived. And I procured some crackers.

00:06:34   I didn't send you crackers. I sent you a little chili jam, but I didn't send you any crackers.

00:06:39   And so then shortly before we recorded today, I sat down with a little cheese snack.

00:06:44   I got some crackers and some grapes, some of the chili jam.

00:06:50   And I had a small selection of cheeses. I had a cheddar cheese from Cheddar, as we established.

00:06:57   some red Leicester cheese which is my favourite cheese. I think that was from Gloucester in

00:07:01   England and some Manchego cheese and it was very enjoyable. Manchego cheese doesn't taste

00:07:07   anything like I expected. I don't know what I expected but it's quite strong but it's

00:07:14   not overpowering and it was very nice on these crackers that I had that were, they had salt

00:07:19   and pepper in them and I must say Jason I am now a fan of the Manchego. I'm in the Manchego

00:07:26   Club all thanks to you.

00:07:28   I recommend now that for the full Jason experience you listen to an episode of The Flop House

00:07:32   while eating Manchego.

00:07:34   But I'm very happy that you like it.

00:07:36   You know, again, I don't have a huge amount of my self-worth invested in various kinds

00:07:39   of cheese.

00:07:40   I only discovered Manchego a few years ago, but I really like it and I'm glad you do too.

00:07:45   Also we had many people point out that when Casey mentioned Manchego on this week's analog,

00:07:50   he said it was a dry cheese to which all the cheese snobs out there shouted, "No, it's

00:07:54   - Not a dry cheese, but be that as it may,

00:07:57   it's an enjoyable cheese.

00:07:58   - It's crumbly. - I don't really know.

00:08:00   - Yeah, well, and it's hard, it's a hard cheese.

00:08:02   But it's good, it's tasty.

00:08:05   And like I said, I usually eat it with this tomato jam

00:08:10   that we made at home from a recipe

00:08:13   by Scott McNulty's wife, Marisa McClelland,

00:08:15   and her book, sponsored by Food and Jars,

00:08:19   a fine cookbook about canning.

00:08:21   And it's a great recipe and it's great with cheese.

00:08:24   So that's why I got you the chili jam is I thought some kind of tomato-y or slightly

00:08:28   spicy kind of thing would be a nice thing to try with too.

00:08:32   But I'm glad you like it.

00:08:33   I did indeed.

00:08:34   I did indeed.

00:08:35   So thank you very much for that.

00:08:37   Very kind of you.

00:08:38   It was after the Velveeta, right?

00:08:40   You couldn't say that.

00:08:41   Yeah, that was it.

00:08:42   I could not believe that Casey got to you with Velveeta before I got to you with Manchego.

00:08:46   I figured I gave you some time to buy some Manchego yourself without it being an explicit

00:08:51   sort of assignment like Myke watches movies.

00:08:53   go buy some manchego. I figured you'd stumble into it, and that didn't happen, so I had

00:08:57   to take matters into my own hands and send you, dispatch to you directly from a courier,

00:09:03   some manchego. So my, the Batman of cheese basically is who I am now. I'm sending my

00:09:09   minions to deliver cheese when it's needed.

00:09:13   [laughter]

00:09:14   On that note, let's take a break. We'll thank our first friend of the week, and I think

00:09:20   I think we're gonna spend some time today looking over and thinking back to last week's

00:09:25   event and some of the things that have changed now that you've had a bit more time for the

00:09:29   things to settle in.

00:09:30   A bit more, a week more time.

00:09:34   This week's episode of Upgrade is brought to you by lynda.com, the online learning platform

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00:11:34   Thank you so much to lynda.com for being such a great supporter of Real AFM and

00:11:37   of upgrade. Yay! So last week's episode of course like you know and I think

00:11:45   people would hear it in the show you were very fresh having come out of the

00:11:50   event and there was a lot of things that I was telling you because I had had the

00:11:54   time to dig through more of the product pages or you see the weird things that people recognize

00:12:01   or ask on Twitter, right? You see these little things where someone is, "Oh, look at this.

00:12:06   There's this thing or there's this thing in the store that we didn't know about," that

00:12:09   kind of thing. So I kind of want to know, how are you feeling about last week now, about

00:12:16   some of the products and the overall feel of the event?

00:12:19   Yeah, it's funny. It comes up occasionally and I realize that it's inside baseball, but

00:12:24   I was glad that we could talk about it last week a little bit. There is this... I mean,

00:12:31   there may be a reality distortion field, but there's also a bubble when you cover these

00:12:35   events that all you get is what Apple wants you to get. It's akin to just watching the

00:12:43   video of the event and not ever visiting any of the website. But our colleagues in the

00:12:48   media who are not at the event, they've got the video on, but they are scouring Apple's

00:12:53   PR site and Apple's marketing pages on Apple.com because there are always tidbits.

00:12:59   There are products that get released that aren't mentioned on stage.

00:13:01   There are features that are mentioned in detail that don't make it into the final presentation

00:13:06   on stage.

00:13:07   And if you're at the event, you miss it all.

00:13:09   You don't see any of that stuff.

00:13:11   And so you come out and you're blinking, you know, you come out into the light like you've

00:13:14   been in the cave, and your people back at the office or whatever, all of your colleagues,

00:13:21   they know more than you do very quickly, because you've been in that hands-on area, getting

00:13:26   information other people don't get, which is the hands-on experience with it, but what

00:13:30   you lack is some of the quirky details. So in the last week, I've, you know, I think

00:13:38   what I found is that there weren't that many quirky details about the Apple Watch, that

00:13:43   impression of that was that it was much... there were some changes, but I feel like they

00:13:48   were all about like how it was presented during the event more than anything else. And then

00:13:53   on the MacBook side, I don't know, it wasn't as... I wasn't as turned around by it in terms

00:13:59   of new information as I was just thinking about it, learning more about USBC, a little

00:14:05   bit more about what exactly its possibility and limitations are and where it may or may

00:14:10   not have come from, which was an interesting little conversation this week. And I just

00:14:15   spent a lot of time thinking about like my impressions of that time I spent with the

00:14:19   MacBook because I spent I invested far more time in the MacBook than the Apple Watch.

00:14:23   I know some of my colleagues at the hands-on area spent a lot of time with the with the

00:14:28   watch and I felt like I had already spent a lot of time with the watch. I'd worn it.

00:14:31   The only difference was going to be some interaction stuff and I saw some of the interaction stuff

00:14:35   but I really emphasized the MacBook because it was completely new, not going to be out

00:14:39   for several weeks and I wanted to spend time with that keyboard and that trackpad. So I

00:14:43   actually wrote a couple of stories last week about MacBook stuff based on, you know, thinking

00:14:50   about that, especially the input devices, and also thinking about the USB-C connector.

00:14:55   Because I think the MacBook is going to affect how everybody who uses a Mac interacts with

00:15:01   their Macs over the next five years because it is going to usher in at least some of this

00:15:05   technology is going to make it to many or all Macs in the next few years. And so I think

00:15:12   it's really worth thinking about that because that's a huge story in the long haul. Now

00:15:16   the Apple Watch is shiny. Literally, it is shiny. But I don't know. It was also not -- the

00:15:24   percentage of new material in the Apple Watch stuff was not as great. So although I'm excited

00:15:29   about the Apple Watch, for me, the MacBook was the thing I spent this last week thinking

00:15:33   about most of the time.

00:15:34   All right, so let's look at this a little bit more then because I can't remember if I asked you this question last week

00:15:40   But maybe you're thinking about it a little bit more

00:15:43   now

00:15:45   Are you gonna buy one of these

00:15:48   No

00:15:49   Okay, so tell me why

00:15:51   Well because I have a top-of-the-line

00:15:53   i7 Mac 11 inch MacBook Air from 2014 and

00:15:59   And my primary system is no longer my laptop.

00:16:04   It's this Retina iMac that I have.

00:16:07   So for me personally, this doesn't make sense.

00:16:12   Would I buy one of these down the line?

00:16:14   Absolutely.

00:16:15   If IDG hadn't given me my work laptop

00:16:19   and I was using the old laptop

00:16:21   that I had kicking around at home,

00:16:24   I would be more interested in it,

00:16:27   especially now that I have a desktop.

00:16:29   I think if I can just keep on playing these scenarios, if I was working at this desk with

00:16:36   my external monitor and my thunderbolt hub, then I would have a problem because I couldn't

00:16:42   plug this laptop into it.

00:16:43   So it's not, it's just in all these scenarios, it's not a really great fit for me right now.

00:16:47   But given, I'll put it this way, given how I use my MacBook Air now, I would absolutely

00:16:52   buy one of these because I don't plug it into anything ever.

00:16:56   I used to plug it in on a desk and dock it with this Thunderbolt dock and have multiple

00:17:05   devices, like five devices coming off of it, and Ethernet and audio out and all of these

00:17:10   things.

00:17:11   But now my MacBook Air is largely a roam around the house, sit in the backyard, take it to

00:17:17   a briefing or when I travel kind of system.

00:17:22   And it could do that.

00:17:25   I'm interested to see how that core M processor works in terms of something like logic, which

00:17:30   I use.

00:17:31   But that's, again, that's a high-end kind of pro kind of thing, and I bet it'll be okay.

00:17:35   Not fantastic, but with the SSD in it, I bet it'll be fine to edit audio even.

00:17:41   Because these computers now are...all of these computers are so powerful that unless you're

00:17:45   using it for very specific powerful needs, which our audience is much more inclined to

00:17:52   than I think the general public, you know, I think it's enough.

00:17:54   So I feel like for me, I would buy this system, but right now I don't need to buy it because

00:17:59   I've got a pretty good small Mac laptop.

00:18:03   And although it's not retina, I can live with that.

00:18:07   So we'll see.

00:18:09   I could see myself getting one of these in a couple of years, or if my kids were agitating

00:18:16   for a laptop or something like that, I would consider the, "Do I get this and hand that

00:18:21   down or do I get them one or all of that?"

00:18:24   I could see that. So it's definitely not a no because of anything other than the fact

00:18:28   that I'm not at that point in the buying cycle. What about you?

00:18:33   So I have, what was it, Maclust. I have hashtag Maclust.

00:18:39   Hashtag Maclust, thank you Phil Schiller.

00:18:41   I do, I definitely do. It's a beautiful computer. And I keep hearing people mention about travel.

00:18:51   And I'm traveling a lot more this year than I ever have before.

00:18:57   And I expect that that will continue, and there's probably things that I'm going to

00:19:00   be traveling for this year that I don't even know about yet.

00:19:04   And I have a 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro, and it's fine, but it's still a bit too big for

00:19:11   an economy seat.

00:19:13   And I guess anything you can do to make that smaller is going to be better, right?

00:19:20   - Yeah, you've got so many USB things though,

00:19:24   for again, for you personally,

00:19:26   and we may not be the best examples.

00:19:27   Like I've got a USB mixer, you know,

00:19:29   USB type, you know, A, B mixer.

00:19:33   And so then you're throwing in an adapter

00:19:36   and then you have to also power it.

00:19:38   And you know, it is smaller and lighter.

00:19:41   That's true.

00:19:42   But you opted for the 13 inch retina MacBook Pro

00:19:44   over an 11 inch MacBook Air.

00:19:46   - Yeah, so let me talk from my decision

00:19:49   for why I went with the Pro.

00:19:50   I went with the Pro just because I wanted power and the difference in weight and thickness

00:19:56   is, I feel, is not as harsh as the power difference.

00:20:02   I wanted a machine that could do everything and that I could also push if I had to.

00:20:07   Like if something happened and I could only use this computer for recording and editing,

00:20:13   then great, I could do that.

00:20:16   as well I'm not I'm I I really don't like the silver bezel on the MacBook Air

00:20:25   especially on the 11 it's not looks like you're looking at kind of like a to me

00:20:30   anyway when I see it looks like a postcard on a billboard like it's just I

00:20:34   don't like it I just I'm just not a big fan of that design anymore and I much

00:20:39   prefer the the way that the MacBook Pro looks in that I need to spend I mean need

00:20:44   spend some time with the MacBook because it's got the edge-to-edge glass screen

00:20:47   too. I've found that, and maybe maybe they've changed the the glare coating on

00:20:52   it, but I always preferred the MacBook Air screen to the MacBook Pro screens

00:20:56   because I found that the the even though the silver bezel is not pretty, it allows

00:21:02   them to have whatever screen coating is on that screen, I find it to be much

00:21:08   less glare-y than the MacBook Pro screens. Much less glare-y. I may be less sensitive

00:21:15   to it. I don't have any problem with that. And plus as well, I may be more than anything,

00:21:20   I wanted a retina screen. Yeah. And that's kind of why I had no other choice. Now the

00:21:26   reason that, I mean I really like the look of the MacBook Air, and probably like for

00:21:32   the majority of stuff that I actually use this MacBook Pro for, I could use the MacBook

00:21:35   care for. Right? Because I do all the production really on the Mac Pro and the

00:21:41   the MacBook that I use is for my general day-to-day work. My MacBook Pro, I've said this before,

00:21:46   it's my main computer. But the reason that I won't get it, I actually have a few

00:21:49   reasons, is the way that I use this computer means that the MacBook Air

00:21:53   wouldn't work for me. So quite frequently I have my MacBook Pro plugged in and I

00:21:59   charge my iPhone. That is something that happens. Or I like to charge my iPhone

00:22:03   whilst using the computer. And I appreciate I could get another adapter

00:22:09   and a plug and a dock but it's just something that I don't have. But more than

00:22:12   anything and the main reason that I wouldn't get it is because I wouldn't

00:22:16   use most of the functions of the MacBook Air on a day-to-day basis. I sometimes

00:22:21   suffer with some wrist pain and arm pain so I elevate my MacBook Pro and use a

00:22:26   Microsoft ergonomic keyboard and a magic mouse. So I need the Microsoft

00:22:32   ergonomic keyboard it has a little USB Bluetooth thing that has to be plugged

00:22:35   in constantly so you wouldn't even be able to plug that in and also the trackpad and the new

00:22:42   keyboard I would never use them or I wouldn't use them that much so like the

00:22:46   big advancements of this machine I wouldn't really use so I really think it

00:22:53   looks incredible I think that it you know I think that for some of what you

00:22:57   need is it's too early but it has to start at some point. Like, we're not ready

00:23:04   for USB-C yet. But we will be eventually and the only way we will be

00:23:11   is by there being computers for it. So I think that the MacBook is a really

00:23:17   good machine for most people provided that they know exactly what they're

00:23:21   getting in to. Because you can't even, like I know we were talking about like

00:23:27   "Oh, you can't plug USB in and power, and we're talking about hubs and stuff."

00:23:31   But if you have anything USB, you can't plug it in.

00:23:34   You need an adapter to just plug in one USB.

00:23:37   Maybe you have a hard drive you like to back up onto, or something like that.

00:23:41   That's true.

00:23:43   I don't know if you even were paying attention to anything

00:23:48   when the iMac came out.

00:23:50   Were you a very small child at that point? I don't know.

00:23:53   The original iMac.

00:23:55   Yeah, the original iMac.

00:23:56   - Yeah, I don't wanna tell you how old I was,

00:23:57   but I was young.

00:23:58   - Yeah, that's enough.

00:24:01   I don't wanna hear anymore out of you, you kids.

00:24:04   But this is exactly what the conversation was then,

00:24:07   which was, oh, it's underpowered,

00:24:09   it doesn't have a floppy drive,

00:24:10   it doesn't have max serial, it doesn't have ADB,

00:24:13   all it has is USB, what the heck is USB?

00:24:15   It was very much like this,

00:24:17   oh, you'll need an adapter and blah, blah, blah,

00:24:18   but you had to start somewhere.

00:24:20   And Apple's not afraid to do that,

00:24:22   and I love that about Apple.

00:24:23   And so yeah, this is gonna be a weird computer for a while,

00:24:25   And then in five years, we're gonna look back and say,

00:24:28   "Oh, that's where it all started."

00:24:30   And it's gonna be the root computer

00:24:32   of all of this new technology that we're seeing.

00:24:35   Like USB-C will be like, "Oh, USB-C,

00:24:37   "well, that started with that crazy MacBook

00:24:39   "where that was the only port."

00:24:41   But now everybody's got it.

00:24:42   And so this is all happening in slow motion

00:24:45   and we can sit here and this Apple focused world

00:24:50   has been talking breathlessly about this for a week.

00:24:53   We're talking very quickly about something

00:24:55   that's going to happen very slowly. But it will happen, and it's fine. But we're entering

00:25:01   this weird transition. So I wrote a piece on the formerly Paul Ferat's Windows Super

00:25:07   Site, winsupercite.com, where I try to explain Apple things to a Windows professional IT

00:25:13   audience on a weekly basis. That's kind of interesting. And I wrote a thing about USB-C

00:25:17   for them. And, you know, very much because I know I'm speaking to IT people, I spent

00:25:23   lot of time on Apple's dance, the dance of the connectors. Like, over the years, Apple

00:25:31   has had so many different connection technologies. It used to be even crazier in that it was

00:25:36   only on Apple products. The Mac serial and Apple desktop bus and even really SCSI for

00:25:43   most use cases were only things that were on the Mac. And then they didn't run Intel

00:25:47   processors. I mean, Macs used to be so not PCs that it was just a totally different...

00:25:52   It was a parallel universe.

00:25:54   They didn't connect at all.

00:25:56   And then over the course of the last 15 years, Macs have become essentially just PCs, and

00:26:01   they've got all the same stuff.

00:26:02   The only difference is the operating system.

00:26:04   And I mean, the design and stuff, but I mean, the ports are ports that you could find on

00:26:08   a PC more or less.

00:26:10   And so I wrote about that.

00:26:13   And one of the things, if you're a technical support person or an IT person that you care

00:26:17   about is that we had entered a period of stability where sort of, if you had a mini display port

00:26:21   connector or adapter, you were good. You could get all the Macs had that and we just left

00:26:27   that period. Because now we're going to have this weird Mac that doesn't use many display

00:26:33   port to connect to a monitor and you're going to need another adapter or two in your in

00:26:36   your conference room or users of this product who do presentations are going to always have

00:26:42   to bring that with them in case they need it. And that's just this happens. These are

00:26:48   these are growing pains. Mac users always complain about, and Apple fans in general,

00:26:53   always complained about the fact that, or, well, they didn't complain, they would point

00:26:57   and laugh at Microsoft and the struggles Microsoft would have because Microsoft had this huge

00:27:03   install base and they wanted to maintain compatibility and, you know, that was what Microsoft excelled

00:27:08   at was dealing with the people who do support and big organizations and that was a weight

00:27:16   on Windows. But this is the flip side of that. Apple not caring about continuity and just

00:27:23   making it hard for everybody in the transition because they want to move to something that's

00:27:28   new and that's better gets us where we are with this product. And so yeah, it's going

00:27:33   to be a pain. And yeah, I'm not looking forward to that moment where I realize that all of

00:27:38   my adapters are now useless because I have a new computer with a new set of ports that

00:27:44   are totally different and although they're better they're also different.

00:27:47   But that's what you get for being users of products by a company that is pushing the

00:27:53   ball forward and that's what Apple is doing with this.

00:27:56   So I don't know, it's just kind of funny.

00:27:59   It's all true, yes.

00:28:00   It is a weird product, yes it's probably not for everyone, yes it is going to be a pain

00:28:05   for all involved for a while, but that's how change happens.

00:28:09   You just got to deal with it.

00:28:10   It can be difficult and it can be frustrating, annoying, and expensive, but without trying

00:28:17   to be an apologist, I love that my chosen team decides to do this stuff.

00:28:26   Yeah.

00:28:27   That's one of the reasons that we like Apple, is that they do stuff like this, right?

00:28:33   And it's very Apple.

00:28:34   I said in that Super Site column, this is the most Appley thing that you could imagine.

00:28:39   Hey, it's got one port and that includes the power plug.

00:28:42   What?

00:28:43   But, you know, then, and then Google released the new

00:28:46   or announced and shipped the new Chromebook Pixel,

00:28:49   which also has two USB-C ports.

00:28:53   So, you know, it's the start of something

00:28:55   that's going to be everywhere.

00:28:56   It's gonna be everywhere.

00:28:57   Even a year ago, we were all talking about how

00:29:00   they had finally done a reversible USB connector,

00:29:03   which is this one, and how it's like,

00:29:05   ah, finally the USB consortium has figured something out

00:29:08   about ease of use and all of that. Well, it turns out maybe Apple was involved at that

00:29:12   in the development of this standard too.

00:29:14   Yeah, I think it was on the talk show this week.

00:29:17   Yeah, it sounds like John maybe overstated Apple's—I think in the talk show John Gruber

00:29:22   said something like Apple invented it and then—

00:29:24   And handed it over.

00:29:25   Yeah, and that's maybe not entirely true and there's a lot of politics involved, but, you

00:29:31   know, the nice thing about it is this is not an Apple proprietary standard. This is a standard

00:29:36   standard, an open available standard that other PC makers are going to support, presumably

00:29:42   that Intel will support. It will become the new generation of USB and Apple, if Apple

00:29:48   got to be influential, you know, I think it's good for Apple to have this connector exist.

00:29:52   So, yeah.

00:29:53   My understanding is that this is just USB 3.0 with a different connector, right? Like

00:29:58   it doesn't give anything different.

00:30:00   No.

00:30:01   Well, it is USB, underlying it is USB 3.1, but the issue is that this connection standard

00:30:10   is different enough that adapters are required.

00:30:12   So it's more than the old school is my understanding.

00:30:17   It's a little bit different that you need a little bit more in the adapter, but I don't

00:30:21   know a lot of the details.

00:30:22   I haven't read as much about that, but underlying it is USB 3.0 and 3.1 and what those can do,

00:30:28   but this is a totally different connector thing.

00:30:30   It is there, I think what they said was, this connection change will require adapters because

00:30:35   there's specific things that need to be adapted between USB A and B and connector type C,

00:30:40   but that they built this with forward-looking whatever so that they say this shouldn't happen

00:30:48   again.

00:30:49   This should be the last time that you need like a totally crazy adapter to get your USB

00:30:53   stuff to work.

00:30:54   So these adapters, are the adapters with apparently like the little computers inside them?

00:30:59   That's my guess, and I don't know that for a fact, but that's my guess is that these

00:31:03   are like the Thunderbolt adapters that we've seen, where it actually needs to do some more

00:31:08   sophisticated stuff than just a cable.

00:31:15   But I don't know for sure.

00:31:17   We've reached the edge of my knowledge about USB-C. All I know is that we need adapters

00:31:22   for everything if we're going to use USB-C. Adapters everywhere.

00:31:25   All the adapters.

00:31:26   All the great adapters.

00:31:27   - I mean, we got a lot of feedback that I didn't put in follow up, but we got the same

00:31:33   feedback everybody did, which is essentially, "Look, if you need to connect to big displays

00:31:37   and external drives, this computer's not for you."

00:31:40   On ATP this week, John Syracuse went on for quite a while about how he was going to be

00:31:46   painted as the guy who said, "This computer's no good because I can't use it."

00:31:51   And he's like, "No, no, no, that's not my point."

00:31:53   was making a different point which is if you're gonna have more than zero ports

00:31:58   maybe you should have two which I think that's a fair point I actually I would

00:32:04   be surprised if there isn't a future a future MacBook in a year or two that has

00:32:09   two ports on it I just wouldn't that's what happened with the MacBook Air I

00:32:12   kind of mind it inconceivable that they would stay in conceivable that they

00:32:17   could stay with just one that just seems weird but they've made a choice like

00:32:21   They've made a choice, but like, why would you do that forever?

00:32:24   - Wouldn't it be great to have one on either side so that you could charge or attach peripherals

00:32:29   from either side?

00:32:31   That would be really nice.

00:32:32   So I think that'll probably happen.

00:32:34   And then we had one I wanted to mention.

00:32:36   Lister David represented a larger group by saying, "Why do MacBook commentators seem

00:32:41   so hung up on a single port and not the retina screen, lightness, and battery life?"

00:32:46   And you know, I got a lot of this and I sense with some of the people who make this comment

00:32:53   that they're frustrated that people are focusing on the negative and not the positive.

00:32:59   And I get that, although at the same time it's not really our job to focus on the positive.

00:33:04   It's our job to kind of like figure out everything that a product means.

00:33:08   I do agree that people who write about this stuff are sometimes the most demanding technical

00:33:14   people of all, and that they totally lose perspective about a product like this. I feel

00:33:20   like the stuff I've listened to and read has been a little bit better than in the past

00:33:24   about this. Unlike the original MacBook Air, for example, I feel like, you know, John Syracuse

00:33:29   is a good example. The nerds are realizing, are better at realizing that just because

00:33:35   a product's not for them doesn't mean that it's not good, or that it's not good for a

00:33:39   certain kind of audience. You know, it remains to be seen when we actually use these things,

00:33:44   how all of us feel about the actual performance and how that keyboard actually feels.

00:33:48   But I feel like we're getting better at having a little more perspective and saying, "Our

00:33:54   use case is not the common use case," because that's true.

00:33:56   I think of how my kids use laptops.

00:34:00   I think about how my mom used her laptop before she switched to an iPad.

00:34:04   I think about how people use iPads.

00:34:06   And I think this is the product for them.

00:34:08   And there is this tendency, all of us have it, to see a product that is not targeted

00:34:13   at you and get mad at it because I can't use that product. But you know, I think that's

00:34:19   okay. There are other products for you to use. You don't need to use this product. This

00:34:23   is like the iPhone 6 Plus. It's not for everybody. And that's okay. There's also an iPhone 6.

00:34:29   You can choose whether you want the big phone or not. We're not going to make you use it.

00:34:33   Nobody's going to make you buy a MacBook with one port. If they stop making all other Apple

00:34:38   laptops and this was the only one, then I think you'd have a better reason to complain.

00:34:42   but they're not going to do that. So I think we're getting better at this, but it is an

00:34:46   important I think I think it's right in the people who are trying to kind of keep us honest

00:34:49   by saying, look, you know, you guys are not I am sitting here with this thunderbolt doc

00:34:57   next to my computer, and it's got like five things plugged into it's like that is not

00:35:00   a common use case. That is crazy me editing podcasts and logic, not a common use case.

00:35:05   And that's okay. I won't when I review the MacBook, I'm not going to be judging it on

00:35:11   whether I can use it or not. I'm gonna have to think of the bigger picture of who is this

00:35:14   for. I learned that really early on when I was writing reviews at MacUser and MacWorld.

00:35:20   One of the questions you have to ask and answer is, who is this product for? Who's it targeted

00:35:23   for, and does it meet that? Will it serve those people? And it's very easy as a reviewer

00:35:29   to lose complete perspective of that and make it all about you. And a review that's all

00:35:33   about you doesn't tell anybody anything unless they happen to be exactly like you, which

00:35:38   is probably not possible. I think the thing with a lot of this stuff is like

00:35:43   everybody is just bringing their own personal experience to it. So the

00:35:48   people that don't understand the one port or focus on the one port

00:35:52   that maybe we have is because like how I just explained like with the way that I

00:35:56   use my computer I can't use this computer. There are some things where I

00:36:01   could adapt but there are some things where it's like adapting could

00:36:05   calls me physical pain, right? So I can't adapt to one port. And

00:36:12   it's the same with other people who say that one port is fine, it's

00:36:15   because that's what you use. And it does take the more considered approach

00:36:19   where I think initially it's been a lot of first impressions and

00:36:23   feelings which tend to come from personal experience. But I've put a

00:36:27   lot of thought into it and been thinking about why is this interesting, why would

00:36:31   I want one and why wouldn't I want one? And that's kind of where I've come to.

00:36:36   It's like I would very much like to have this computer but there is no

00:36:40   world in which I will own two laptops. It's crazy. But I think it would be

00:36:45   very very nice to own for the specific uses of like traveling and stuff but I'm

00:36:49   not gonna buy a laptop just for traveling. But I can see for people that

00:36:53   do travel a lot especially or are writing in environments where it's very

00:36:58   constrained for them and they really need the space. This is kind of the

00:37:01   perfect machine because it's got a bigger display for the size of the

00:37:05   case and with it being

00:37:09   Retina you can really ramp up the resolution on the thing and it's an

00:37:13   interesting product and there's a lot of innovation in

00:37:16   there that I'm looking forward to trickling down to the lines a bit more.

00:37:20   So for my upgrade in a year or two, when I want to upgrade my MacBook Pro,

00:37:26   then I will be able to benefit from the work that's been done on the new

00:37:30   the MacBook. I have two other pieces of listener interaction that I want to

00:37:37   mention here before we move on from the MacBook. One of them is from listener Matt

00:37:40   who wrote in, you know, we talked about whether Thunderbolt, this is a sign

00:37:45   that Thunderbolt is going away, and he wrote in to say he doesn't think, he's a

00:37:49   pro, he says he doesn't think Thunderbolt's going anywhere, it's got a

00:37:51   lot of support in a lot of places in pro applications, and you know when I

00:37:55   replied to him and I said, you know, but is this gonna be like FireWire where it

00:37:58   just sort of ends up more on pro systems and their consumer systems that don't have it,

00:38:02   he said, "Yeah, that may be the case, and we'll have to see."

00:38:05   It looks to me like over time, USB-C is going to be able to do for consumer applications

00:38:10   at least more or less everything that we want Thunderbolt for, and that maybe Thunderbolt

00:38:15   will fade away eventually, but it would be a longer and slower fade and something that

00:38:21   really happened more on the consumer line where it would stick around for longer on

00:38:25   the pro line.

00:38:27   I think that's probably right.

00:38:29   And then Upgrading Sam, I just varied it

00:38:32   because I know you like to say Upgrading.

00:38:35   Wrote in to point out something interesting,

00:38:38   the LG G2 and the Moto X both also use,

00:38:40   these smartphones also have stepped or terraced batteries.

00:38:44   I also had somebody write in

00:38:46   after I was on Mac break weekly last week

00:38:47   to point out that HP actually had a laptop

00:38:51   with a force-based track pad

00:38:52   that didn't move a couple of years ago.

00:38:55   Although interestingly, and it was good, I didn't know that.

00:38:59   I really appreciate that person writing in.

00:39:01   But interestingly, that was the whole feature

00:39:02   was there was a force sensor and it didn't move.

00:39:05   If you wanted feedback,

00:39:07   if you had the speakers on on the laptop,

00:39:10   when you clicked it, it played a sound of a trackpad click.

00:39:13   And to me, this is the kind of thing

00:39:17   that Apple does really well,

00:39:18   is Apple takes that existing stuff of the force sensors

00:39:22   and the existing stuff of haptics

00:39:24   and write some very clever software

00:39:26   and integrates the hardware together

00:39:27   and create something that feels like you're depressing it

00:39:29   when you're not, which is way better

00:39:32   than hearing a Windows play a click sound.

00:39:36   So I think that is like a little microcosm

00:39:39   of how Apple does things.

00:39:40   And whenever Apple announces a new feature,

00:39:43   whether it's the Terrace battery or something,

00:39:45   especially if you're in the distortion field at the time,

00:39:49   you're like, "Oh wow, that's a really cool idea."

00:39:51   And they're always,

00:39:52   even if you don't say Apple thought of it first, you will always get...and you write

00:39:56   about like, "Hey, Apple introduced this cool feature," there's always somebody in my experience

00:40:01   who writes in and goes, "They weren't first with that. Somebody else did that first,"

00:40:04   and they're really angry about it. And usually, I try not to make claims that it's first from

00:40:10   Apple because that's usually not the case. This, though, is what makes that Apple stuff

00:40:14   different, is that Apple puts a lot of this stuff that's totally not...they're totally

00:40:18   not first with any of that stuff or most of that stuff, and they put it together in a

00:40:21   really clever way that are the first ones to make something that makes sense as a whole.

00:40:27   And who wants to bet? Okay, so it's been a couple of years since HP had that four sensing

00:40:31   trackpad and nobody seems to really picked up on it. Who wants to bet how long it's going

00:40:35   to take for PC makers to create four sensitive trackpads with haptics in order to have the

00:40:44   same effect? You will see them. Whether they sell well or not, who knows. Whether they're

00:40:47   well implemented, who knows. But because Apple's kind of packaged this whole thing together,

00:40:52   that's what makes people interested in it. And it is very compelling. It is kind of an

00:40:56   amazing product, the trackpad. I really kind of love it, and I want one for my desk here.

00:41:02   I want a Force Touch Magic trackpad. Could we add more words in front of the word "trackpad"?

00:41:08   Probably not. But anyway, I think that's an interesting angle that a lot of times these

00:41:12   These aren't the original things.

00:41:13   The Terrace batteries existed before.

00:41:16   The Force trackpad existed before.

00:41:18   But Apple does a good job of selling it.

00:41:22   And often we'll put a bunch of different things

00:41:25   together to tell a story about why a product is good that

00:41:28   include those things, where sometimes it ends up

00:41:30   just being a fact in a product.

00:41:33   And there's nothing really connected to it.

00:41:35   Because they say on stage, we invented this.

00:41:38   And it's like, that word can be taken quite,

00:41:43   can be taken literally or more loosely,

00:41:46   because they probably did invent it for their purpose.

00:41:49   Like they didn't take it off the shelf.

00:41:51   But it doesn't mean that they were necessarily

00:41:54   the first person to ever consider the idea.

00:41:57   Does that make sense?

00:41:58   - Yeah.

00:41:59   - Like, you know, they made it,

00:42:01   but they didn't necessarily come up with the original idea.

00:42:05   - Right, right.

00:42:06   And that's, you know, it's okay.

00:42:08   I get why people are mad because Apple oftentimes will act like something is something they

00:42:13   invented and it's not quite, but there's usually more to it than that.

00:42:17   It's usually not Apple just saying, "Look, we invented this."

00:42:20   It's Apple saying, you know, "We've done all these things and made them into this product

00:42:25   that tells the story and that's different."

00:42:26   Should we take a break?

00:42:28   Yeah, let's do that.

00:42:29   Let's thank our friends over at Igloo and then we'll address some stuff about the watch

00:42:33   as well.

00:42:34   I want to thank Igloo, the internet you'll actually like for helping support this week's

00:42:38   episode of Upgrade. With igloo you can share news, organize your files, coordinate calendars

00:42:43   and manage all of your projects and tasks all in one place. It's a fantastic way for

00:42:49   you and your team to work together, socialise together no matter where they are in the world

00:42:53   because igloo's platform is fantastic. It works on all manner of devices. It's built

00:42:59   on the power of the responsive web. They use responsive design in all of their products

00:43:05   across the entire thing is what it's built on. It's a fantastic product that allows you

00:43:09   to make sure that when you're on a laptop, when you're on a phone, when you're on a tablet,

00:43:12   you can access everything. This can come from managing your tasks, maybe sharing a photo

00:43:17   of your lunch with your colleagues, maybe reading a document with a fantastic HTML5

00:43:22   backed document previewing engine, or even managing your settings. You can do all of

00:43:26   this on any device, wherever you want, however you want. I mentioned the document stuff a

00:43:30   a moment ago. Igloo's latest upgrade, Viking, it revolves all around documents and how you

00:43:35   interact with them. As well as beefing up their preview engine, this allows you to make

00:43:40   sure that you're always up to date with the latest version of a document as people upload

00:43:44   it to Igloo, they download it, it's really cool. But one of the new key things that they've

00:43:48   added is the ability to track who has read critical information. So imagine like a read

00:43:53   receipt in an email, you send an email off to somebody and then you get a notification

00:43:56   back to tell you that they've read it. So sometimes that's useful because you know it's

00:43:59   you can either question them about it or at least you know they've received it and it's good.

00:44:02   You could have implemented this to documents. So let's say for example you're sending around

00:44:06   a document to your colleagues which is a really essential piece of training documentation or legal

00:44:13   documentation and you have to know that people have seen it and so they need to acknowledge it.

00:44:17   Well you can do all of this now rather than like somebody running around the desk and getting

00:44:22   everybody to put their initial on a piece of paper like they used to do in my old office,

00:44:25   You would now, everyone just knows, like you should get a list of people who have seen it

00:44:29   and then you can just go and talk to or nudge to people that haven't.

00:44:32   It's really really cool and if you work in a company that has these kinds of needs,

00:44:36   which are probably many, this is a really really nice addition to igloos platform.

00:44:40   Igloo is super customisable, you can change how you want igloos to look

00:44:44   and what functions you want to have, you can even do this with certain groups

00:44:48   and all of the changes that you make show up everywhere, instantly.

00:44:51   If your company has a legacy intranet that looks like it was built in the 90s,

00:44:54   the 90s you should be giving igloo a try it's free to use of teams of up to 10

00:44:58   people and you can sign up right now igloo software.com/upgrade and

00:45:02   that will of course help out this show thank you so much to igloo for supporting

00:45:06   today and all of real AFM.

00:45:10   So we also have the watch what what has been your kind of feeling now about this

00:45:21   What is my feeling about the watch? I feel, uh, no, it's, um, I'm starting to feel desire

00:45:29   to buy the watch and use it. I've been thinking about it a lot more, and I mean, some of that

00:45:34   is just, "Oh, new thing is coming." Um, that happens, but I, you know, I like the approach

00:45:43   that Apple is taking. The presentation was simplified from the one six months ago. I

00:45:50   I think it's, you know, focusing on keeping your phone in your pocket is a good thing

00:45:58   or bag.

00:46:00   A lot of women don't have pockets for phones.

00:46:02   So having that thing on your wrist that you can very quickly see what's going on and look

00:46:11   something up and dismiss it and have it be these short interactions, a few seconds.

00:46:15   There have been pieces written that say, "Oh, no, this is even worse because it's going

00:46:19   to put your phone on your wrist and it's going to make our little bubbles that we live in

00:46:24   where we're not paying attention to the people around us even worse. That could be true,

00:46:28   but the more I hear about how Apple's trying to approach this, the more I start to think

00:46:33   that Apple is trying to do the reverse here. Apple is trying to make your interactions

00:46:39   with the data from the internet and from your phone faster and easier and more convenient

00:46:44   and more sort of seamless with the world around you.

00:46:47   And I think that's a good thing.

00:46:49   I think reducing the number of times

00:46:50   we have to pull out our phone and stare at it

00:46:53   in order to check on something,

00:46:55   that we can do it much more quickly with a glance even,

00:46:58   say, "Oh, that's not important,"

00:46:59   or very quickly go, "Glance, tap, tap, done,"

00:47:02   and then move on without having to get out our phone.

00:47:06   I think those are admirable things.

00:47:08   And if this device can pull that off,

00:47:11   I think that's gonna be really powerful.

00:47:13   the line that I've been using and I probably used on this show but I've used it on some

00:47:17   other shows and some presentations I've given is the line about how, you know, a hundred

00:47:23   years ago people decided that pocket watches were inconvenient and if we strapped a clock

00:47:29   to our wrists that would be more convenient and it worked. And I think that principle

00:47:35   may hold true again if it's done right. So I'm excited to try it out. I think that it

00:47:40   could have a lot of value that goes beyond just being seen as a, you know, a

00:47:45   redundant accessory for an iPhone and that pulling that phone out of your

00:47:49   pocket is good enough because if they do their job right with this thing it won't

00:47:54   be good enough. This will be better. This will make everything smoother and faster

00:47:58   and I do think it has the potential to do that so I'm getting excited about it.

00:48:04   What about the edition? Now we didn't really talk about the edition last week

00:48:09   and I haven't heard your thoughts on it. Now that we know kind of very basic

00:48:18   information about the edition, it's still shrouded in mystery which might be

00:48:22   you know part of the whole mystique of the thing. What is your personal feeling

00:48:28   on Apple offering a $17,000 watch?

00:48:35   So I'm going to turn this around and make it about people like us talking about this.

00:48:41   I think people are getting derailed by the edition and by the gold, the gold material

00:48:45   and the price. I keep seeing stories that use the edition as a jumping off point for

00:48:50   a rant about why Apple's totally lost the plot and they're doing crazy stuff with, for

00:48:56   super rich and they're losing what they're all about. But I actually think that Apple

00:49:01   was really soft peddling their talk about the addition. I do think the reason the Gold

00:49:06   video wasn't played, the reason that there was one that the price wasn't put up on the

00:49:10   screen and it was just sort of mentioned in passing is that, you know, Apple knows that

00:49:15   there are people out there who will spend a huge amount of money. These are the people

00:49:18   who will pay third parties to take iPhone cases apart

00:49:23   and replace them with the actual case,

00:49:27   not a case to wrap around the iPhone,

00:49:28   but replace the actual case of the iPhone

00:49:30   with carved wood or with solid gold

00:49:34   because they're super rich

00:49:36   and they want a super awesome iPhone

00:49:39   and they can afford to pay for that.

00:49:41   And I think there's a part of Apple that says,

00:49:43   why not us, why don't we do that?

00:49:47   And then when you talk about watches, there is a luxury segment to the watch.

00:49:50   There are people who want gold watches, and I can totally understand them saying, "Well,

00:49:54   we're just going to do a stainless steel watch and have everybody say, 'We're never going

00:49:56   to get the rich and famous to wear our watch if all we have is a stainless steel model.

00:50:02   We need a gold model.'"

00:50:03   And at that point, you're talking about it like, "Well, that's so impractical."

00:50:06   And I can totally see how that conversation becomes, "All right, fine.

00:50:10   Who's that market?

00:50:11   What's the market for a gold watch?

00:50:12   If we sold a gold watch for $10,000, would some people buy it?

00:50:17   Would that be the one that shows up in fashion spreads and in shots of celebrities on the

00:50:23   red carpet and all of that?

00:50:24   Yeah, probably so.

00:50:25   And that's the one that the very rich people will buy, and we'll make it a limited edition.

00:50:30   I think it's all tracks.

00:50:32   I think it's why would we turn those people away if they want to give us a lot of money

00:50:35   for a gold watch?

00:50:36   But the point of the watch is not the gold version.

00:50:39   And I think for its importance, maybe not culturally, but for its importance as a product,

00:50:49   it gets way too much attention.

00:50:50   In fact, we're giving it too much attention even by talking about it this way.

00:50:53   I think it's just been over-talked and that nobody's going to buy it.

00:50:58   The people who are going to buy it are people who've got lots and lots of money, and everybody

00:51:03   else is going to be buying the sport or the adjective-less version. And, you know, that

00:51:09   the product will live or die based on that and not the gold. So I think the gold is a

00:51:14   big distraction. And I think it's one of the reasons why Apple sort of underplayed the

00:51:17   gold model at the event was it's kind of, you know, it's kind of distracting people

00:51:24   from the actual product. And they don't want it to be seen as an unattainable product.

00:51:28   It is an attainable product. Like all of Apple's products, this is a, yes, it's a nice product.

00:51:33   And you could even argue that it's a luxury product, but it's also a luxury product that

00:51:36   starts at $350.

00:51:38   And I think that's important to Apple, that it not get lost in the $17,000 model, that

00:51:43   there is a $350 model.

00:51:44   I actually don't think they're going to sell this in Apple stores at all.

00:51:49   Well, they were very—I think they are going to sell it in select Apple stores.

00:51:53   I think somebody, maybe Matthew Panzareno, got them to say that it will be in select

00:51:59   Apple stores.

00:52:00   Yeah, I think, is this where you're going with this?

00:52:04   I think that it'll be in high-end jewelry stores

00:52:06   and some Apple stores in really specific locations

00:52:10   that have the place to do the high-end kind of sales

00:52:15   and that's it.

00:52:16   It's gonna be a super exclusive,

00:52:17   it's gonna be where the people who shop

00:52:19   for the fancy stuff like this are.

00:52:21   It's not gonna be at the shopping mall

00:52:22   in your local Apple store.

00:52:23   - So the place is that I think it's gonna be,

00:52:25   I think you're gonna get it in Regent Street in London.

00:52:28   you're gonna get it in the New York glass cube one is that where is that is

00:52:34   that fifth Avenue yeah there'll be one of the Paris stores and like maybe a

00:52:39   store to in in China maybe one in Tokyo maybe one in Rome or Milan I think that

00:52:44   will be it and then outside of that they will use the existing facilities of

00:52:50   high-end department stores and I saw a picture today of a department store in

00:52:55   Tokyo, I saw this on Twitter, but it looks like it's having a pop-up shop fitted

00:53:00   into it. And I did see somebody tweet that Selfridges in London, a very large

00:53:06   fancy department store, will have them. It answers so many of the problems that

00:53:11   we've been asking ourselves for weeks as to how are they going to do this.

00:53:15   They do this by just not having to worry about it and use the existing stores,

00:53:21   those existing stores, all the security that they have, and just all the

00:53:26   facilities that they have and the environments that they have to make

00:53:30   people feel comfortable to buy these products. And they just kit them with

00:53:34   some very specifically trained Apple employees and that's how it's done.

00:53:38   And you go in by appointment and it's, you know, that's it. That's how

00:53:43   they'll do it. And that way they don't have to worry about any of the

00:53:47   stuff that we've been talking about about like teenagers selling $17,000

00:53:52   watches to millionaires.

00:53:54   "Would you like a gold watch?" We don't want that. I agree with you. I think there's a whole question about support and things like that and

00:54:02   service, but high-end watches, if you look, there are a limited number of places

00:54:06   that will service high-end watches too, and I'm sure that they would say, "Well, you

00:54:13   can come back to this store," and they would have a connection with

00:54:17   Apple and again it probably doesn't happen on site right it all gets shipped

00:54:21   somewhere but the yes sir very very well sir we'll get this back to you in a week

00:54:24   sir whatever it is. You just call the special telephone number that is in the box. Yeah

00:54:28   exactly right you just press you just press on the box and think about service

00:54:31   and it reads your mind and it teleports the watch to Apple but yeah or you take

00:54:37   it down to your Apple store and they have got a and they've got a concierge

00:54:41   service thing that happens where they just come out and go oh well thank you

00:54:44   very much, ma'am, that, you know, yes, indeed, we'll put it in this leather, you know, case

00:54:48   that's the special thing and it's magic and then we'll get it back to you immediately

00:54:52   in its service. I'm sure they'll work that stuff out. But having access in the places

00:54:56   where you would expect luxury, super luxury items to be sold is natural. Of course, that's

00:55:01   gonna happen. Good news, Angela Ahrendts knows people in the high-end luxury retail game.

00:55:06   So I think it's all gonna be fine. But yeah, I would expect that these will be in places

00:55:11   that are not traditional Apple stores,

00:55:13   as well as some of the highest of the fancy Apple stores.

00:55:17   - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah.

00:55:18   Union Square in San Francisco and Fifth Avenue in London,

00:55:22   and there'll be some places like that,

00:55:24   and whatever fashionable district in China, for sure,

00:55:29   'cause that's definitely a focus of Apple's too.

00:55:31   Anyway, one other item about the watch

00:55:34   that I wanted to talk about,

00:55:36   which is Greg Koenig, who does Luma Labs.

00:55:40   they do the Luma Loop, did a blog post on his site Atomic Delights talking about how

00:55:49   Apple makes the Apple Watch with lots and it's been linked a lot but I wanted to mention

00:55:53   it because it's great. I love that story. It is from somebody who knows a lot about

00:55:59   manufacturing about Apple's strengths in manufacturing and how for certain materials with certain

00:56:04   methods Apple is essentially the leader and we don't think of them I mean he starts by

00:56:09   saying Apple is the leader in manufactured goods in the world. And the way he puts it

00:56:15   is I used, at one time I would have said consumer goods are electronic goods, but as he puts

00:56:21   it last quarter Apple shipped a Boeing 787's weight worth of iPhones every day. And he

00:56:28   said when we add the rest of the product line to the mix, it becomes clear Apple supply

00:56:33   chain is one of the largest scale production organizations in the world. Apple is the world's

00:56:36   foremost manufacturer of goods." And then he talks in detail about how like Apple does

00:56:42   things with aluminum or aluminium, if you prefer, that nobody else does. I knew you're

00:56:48   like that. He says, "It would be hard to argue Apple isn't the world's foremost expert on

00:56:53   the volume production of high precision, high finish aluminum components." It's a fascinating

00:56:59   perspective on how one of Apple's great advantages is that Apple has not only the scale and the

00:57:05   money but the knowledge about making things, making physical objects, working

00:57:11   with metal, working on these massive machines that have to be used to process

00:57:17   this stuff. And so then he goes through the three videos that Apple showed.

00:57:21   And in a, you know, you know how nerds will do frame-by-frame analysis of an

00:57:29   Avengers trailer to say, "Look, those eyes, that must be the vision." And we know

00:57:34   that Paul Bettany is playing the vision and he played Jarvis and what does that mean?

00:57:37   Is Jarvis related to Ultron in some way? They'll do that kind of Zapruder analysis, the frame-by-frame

00:57:44   with the Zapruder film from the Kennedy assassination is what that reference is where people would

00:57:48   take it like in JFK the movie back and to the left back and to the left like we're through

00:57:52   the rabbit hole here people we're looking at every individual frame of this video and

00:57:56   it's going to tell us something. Well Greg does that with these three materials videos

00:57:59   gold, stainless steel, and aluminum.

00:58:04   And it's great.

00:58:05   And you don't have to be an engineer to appreciate it, because I'm not, and I really loved it.

00:58:10   I thought it was fascinating to see how they make this stuff and what it means about sort

00:58:14   of like Apple's expertise in areas that as users of your product would be completely

00:58:20   invisible to you, users of Apple's products, completely invisible.

00:58:24   But they still have to do them.

00:58:27   It's one of the ways Apple's products end up being as good as they are, is because of

00:58:32   this expertise that we don't even see. So it's fascinating. So I just wanted to put

00:58:35   in a plug for Greg's thing, because it's awesome. So we'll put the link in the show notes. It's

00:58:42   at AtomicDelights.com.

00:58:43   I've been thinking a bit about this kind of stuff recently, like having worked, I worked

00:58:49   for a massive, massive organization previously to this, and like, there are so many things

00:58:56   that Apple does that they don't have to do. And I think that's what

00:59:01   fundamentally sets them apart from everybody else. Like with the amount of

00:59:06   money that they make and these sorts of things, there are so many things, so many

00:59:10   details that they talk about, the things that they do with the way that they

00:59:14   produce these products, that they could actually just do it for cheaper or do it

00:59:20   easier but it just seems like that they make very specific decisions about the

00:59:24   where the products are made due to a level of care and love that some of

00:59:29   their competitors don't seem to have. I know I'm not saying nothing that's

00:59:32   new but from the perspective of somebody who worked in a really really

00:59:36   large organization and I have no doubt that Apple have their own organizational

00:59:40   issues and struggles like you know with a middle management level type you know

00:59:44   stuff that goes on on a day-to-day basis it just seems like so many of the

00:59:49   decisions and that they make come from a place which is very very different to

00:59:55   some of the other companies, especially companies of that size. Yeah, it's a lot

01:00:01   of Apple's competitors are companies that buy components and maybe they've

01:00:07   got some expertise in putting together a plastic shell or a metal shell, but Apple

01:00:11   because I think because of its history, because of it having to do a lot of

01:00:15   stuff itself and wanting to be self-reliant and build custom stuff, not the ADB ports

01:00:22   and serial ports and all of old, but we want—how do you stand out? How do you make something

01:00:27   different? And the unibody enclosures on the laptops were like that. They've ended up building

01:00:32   up this crazy expertise. When Tim Cook started at Apple, there was a time when Apple was

01:00:37   a kind of laughing stock in terms of its supply chain. It had way too much inventory. Dell

01:00:43   was held out as the extreme example of good kind of in-time inventory. You don't have

01:00:48   stuff hanging around in your warehouses or anything like that. Over the course of the

01:00:53   last 15 years or whatever, 15 or 20 years, Apple has become this monster of efficiency.

01:01:00   And that goes to all of these different parts of its business. And their competitors, you

01:01:05   know, I don't want to say they all don't do that, but most of them don't do most of it.

01:01:10   And you know, if you're Apple, people say, "Why is Apple so successful?

01:01:14   Why does Apple have so much market share and profit share in all these different categories?"

01:01:19   This is one reason why.

01:01:21   There was a story that I linked to a while ago that was in a similar vein to Greg Canig's

01:01:27   story, and it was about how it was from, I think, a venture capitalist or a president

01:01:34   of a startup saying, "Don't try to make your product at Apple's level of quality, because

01:01:40   you can't, because Apple has mastered this.

01:01:45   And if you're expecting Apple levels of fit and finish, give up.

01:01:49   That's what it's required.

01:01:50   You can't do it because only Apple can do that and maybe some others very few.

01:01:56   It is really a thing that they're great at."

01:01:58   And we see it in their products, but we don't know just how much goes on behind the scenes.

01:02:03   It's not like some of their competitors are choosing not to make products that have the

01:02:08   fit and finish of Apple's products.

01:02:09   It's that they can't.

01:02:11   And that's a huge advantage for Apple.

01:02:12   You probably can't afford it.

01:02:14   I would assume that a product like the MacBook, the margins on that at the moment must be

01:02:19   really bad, I would assume.

01:02:21   I mean, I don't know.

01:02:22   Just by thinking about these things, if you've had to create new machinery and you've had

01:02:27   to spend all this time in R&D and all this time trying to work out how can we do this,

01:02:31   can we do this?" And you go round and round and round on it, and then eventually, you

01:02:35   know, ultimately you're creating tools, parts, machinery, processes. Like, it must be painful.

01:02:41   Paying your manufacturing company's money to buy, to build factories for you, which

01:02:47   is something that they do. "Here, just go build a factory to do this."

01:02:50   And, you know, because then ultimately they know that if they do that, they will be rolling

01:02:56   in cash after X amount of time. But the thing is, is other companies don't have the money

01:03:01   on hand where they can do that kind of stuff. You know what you're saying about inventory

01:03:05   management a moment ago? One thing that really helps your inventory management is when people

01:03:09   can't stop buying your products. That's a really great way to manage your inventory.

01:03:14   That does help. But yeah, it's just something I've been thinking about. They're just...

01:03:22   It's not new to anyone, but just when you see these new products, entirely new products

01:03:28   coming from Apple. It just gives you pause for thought when you watch those stunning

01:03:32   marketing videos.

01:03:34   It's true. Do we want to move on to Ask Upgrade now?

01:03:41   Yeah, we most definitely do. This week's episode features an Ask Upgrade segment that

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01:06:02   Indeed.

01:06:03   All right, do you want to ask me things?

01:06:07   Yes, oh, I'd love to ask you things. So this comes from a listener David, "The Retina MacBook Pro got the

01:06:12   false touch trackpad but not the keyboard change seen in the MacBook. Why, Jason?"

01:06:17   My guess is that they're not... That new MacBook keyboard doesn't have a lot of travel. It seems to

01:06:27   have been built very specifically for the super thin laptop and it's not really necessary in the

01:06:32   the retina MacBook Pro, they may even be waiting to see how people feel about that keyboard.

01:06:38   I'm on the fence about the keyboard. I'm pretty skeptical about it. It worked, but it felt

01:06:42   weird to me. I want to give it some time. I want to try one out for a while and judge

01:06:47   it, but that's asking a lot to get everybody who's using your Pro laptop to now use this

01:06:54   brand new, slightly weird keyboard. So I think it's some combination of it being new and

01:07:02   it being strange and it really being built for the super thin laptop and not being required

01:07:09   in the MacBook.

01:07:12   It strikes me that that keyboard is more of a compromise in order to get something that's

01:07:16   thin, whereas the Force Touch, I think Apple views that as being not a compromise, but

01:07:22   actually an enhancement that everybody could use and want the Force Touch trackpad, because

01:07:28   it not only is it thinner and then helps them build that thing thinner but it's

01:07:31   also better because it has the same features of a physical trackpad but you

01:07:35   can click all over it and you can you can use software to have multiple clicks

01:07:39   built into it and so I think that may be the difference is that you know they're

01:07:43   adding the thing that is is a feature enhancement and not the thing that is

01:07:47   more like a compromise.

01:07:50   So I have my own theory about this as well that the

01:07:54   force touch trackpad can be put into the existing MacBook case relatively easily

01:07:59   whilst the new keyboard if they did want to do it they would need to change the

01:08:04   spacing of the keys on the keyboard. It's just so it's such a radically different

01:08:07   thing yeah that may be too that it was a much easier swap although I don't know

01:08:11   I'm a little surprised that they that they swapped in the force touch trackpad

01:08:15   too but it may be that that was something they could do and that the

01:08:19   other they couldn't do without a bigger redesign of the of the product I don't

01:08:23   now. It's a good theory. Yeah, so there you go. This is from listener Scott. He had a

01:08:30   little thought. When you plug an iPhone into the new MacBook, does the iPhone charge the

01:08:34   Mac or the Mac the iPhone? That one made me laugh, you know. You could, it's bi-directional

01:08:41   charging. When they do a USB, I don't know whether USB-C can specifically say whether

01:08:47   something is charging or charged, whether a device can say I'm only available to be

01:08:52   charged and not to charge other things? I don't know. It's a good question. We'll have

01:08:57   to try that out, perhaps. But you will need I think you'll need a USB C. You'll need a

01:09:06   USB C iPhone for that to happen. And that may never happen because the the lightning

01:09:13   provides power out but does not know. No, it takes it both ways because it can power

01:09:17   a little device. I bet it can't power the amount of power that is required by the MacBook

01:09:21   though so I think it would probably say nope can't do that so with the adapter

01:09:25   we'll see it's a funny it's a funny idea one of the things that we should mention

01:09:31   is USB C being a standard you're gonna be able to have USB C chargers from

01:09:37   third parties that work with a MacBook which is great like external battery

01:09:40   packs and airline adapters and things like that because Apple's no longer

01:09:45   using a proprietary connector to charge the MacBook MagSafe was Apple proprietary

01:09:50   and that meant there weren't a lot of MagSafe things out there,

01:09:53   but there'll be a lot of USB-C things,

01:09:56   and that's good for the MacBook.

01:09:59   -Listener Jorge is interested to know if --

01:10:04   So he said the Space Gray,

01:10:05   so I think this is kind of the confusion,

01:10:08   but actually, is the Space Black watch

01:10:10   as dark as it appears in the picture?

01:10:11   -No. -Is it darker than the Space Gray

01:10:13   on the iPhone? -So here's the thing.

01:10:14   There is a Space Gray Apple Watch Sport,

01:10:18   and there is a space black apple watch adjective-less.

01:10:22   The space black is that shiny, it's in the video of the

01:10:26   it's the shiny diamond-like carbon that is added

01:10:30   on top of the stainless steel, whereas the space gray is an anodized

01:10:36   aluminum on the apple watch sport and

01:10:41   in the pictures it looks darker. I don't think I saw that one enough to judge it.

01:10:45   My guess is that it's the closest, but I don't know.

01:10:50   I can't confirm whether it is as dark.

01:10:53   It does appear darker in the pictures.

01:10:55   The one that's jet black is the space black though.

01:10:58   So they differentiate it with the space gray.

01:11:00   I, you know, remains to be seen.

01:11:02   My guess is that it may actually be a little bit darker

01:11:05   than the iPhone, but that could also just be

01:11:06   an optical illusion.

01:11:07   We held the gold iPhone against the gold aluminum

01:11:12   of the MacBook and they're basically the same.

01:11:15   So it looks like Apple wants these to be color matched.

01:11:18   So it would be a failing on their part

01:11:20   if they called something space gray and it didn't match.

01:11:22   So my hope is that it does and it's just photographic

01:11:24   but I can't confirm that.

01:11:25   - Cool.

01:11:28   What else do we have here?

01:11:29   So listener Nicholas, how does the watch connectivity work

01:11:33   when it's parent iPhone?

01:11:35   - When it and its parents iPhone

01:11:38   are on the same wifi network.

01:11:41   The watch has Wi-Fi, and this is a conversation

01:11:45   I heard somewhere last week.

01:11:46   I can't remember where this came up,

01:11:47   but the idea here, maybe it was on MacBreak Weekly,

01:11:51   the idea here is that if you've got a Pebble like I do,

01:11:55   and you walk 15 feet away from your iPhone,

01:11:57   'cause your iPhone is charging somewhere,

01:11:59   it loses the connection, the Bluetooth connection drops.

01:12:02   Apple Watch has Wi-Fi and Bluetooth,

01:12:04   and apparently Apple has said that if your phone

01:12:07   and your watch are on the same Wi-Fi network,

01:12:09   they can still talk to each other.

01:12:10   So you can plug in your phone and then roam around your home

01:12:14   and it's all your same wifi network.

01:12:16   And as long as the watch is on wifi

01:12:17   and the iPhone is on wifi, they stay connected

01:12:19   and they stay sharing data, which is awesome.

01:12:22   That's a great feature because I'm not always

01:12:26   right next to my phone and my watch stays with me, right?

01:12:29   Because it's strapped to my wrist,

01:12:31   but I put my phone down sometimes.

01:12:33   So what this is saying is if you're on the same wifi network

01:12:36   as your phone, they'll stay in touch, which is cool.

01:12:39   And we have, this is someone from the chat room, D-N-W-R-L-D, Dan World is what I'm going

01:12:50   for.

01:12:51   Dan World.

01:12:52   Can we get a quick recap of what models you and Jason are leaning towards?

01:12:55   Jason, what are your thoughts?

01:12:56   Is it the gold with the red band?

01:12:59   Like you told me privately the other day you were going to buy?

01:13:03   It turns out the indie podcasting and writing thing is so lucrative that I'm able to buy

01:13:07   17,000 dollar Apple Gold watch with no problems. I am torn. I am torn between the black sport

01:13:19   and then buying an add-on leather band because I do not believe that the fluoro elastomer band

01:13:31   will please me. So then I would buy the leather band and it wouldn't be an exact match but it

01:13:37   it would be cheaper, or buying the stainless steel in black with a leather band. Okay. But I'm gonna

01:13:53   go, although I also want to try the Milanese loop because I didn't get a chance to try that on

01:13:59   at the event, and I want to try that because I've had people say that it doesn't pull arm hairs and

01:14:04   stuff like that that it's super gentle and I want to see how it looks and how it feels and whether

01:14:09   I'd consider that instead of a leather band but I've been a leather watch band guy my whole life

01:14:16   I don't like the the plastic bands the first thing I did with my pebble in fact was replace the crappy

01:14:23   plastic band with a with a leather band so we'll see. So I'm going sport um definitely because I

01:14:31   like you just think for my taste the aluminium looks nicer than the steel and

01:14:37   we're gonna go with the standard silver one and I'm thinking I'm probably gonna

01:14:43   get just like a crazy bright coloured strap like I might go like blue or

01:14:47   something just for fun but I I will be buying another strap that I will wear on

01:14:52   a daily basis it will either be the black sport strap or I'll get one of the

01:14:57   other ones. For my secondary strap I'm not sure. I may just buy the black one

01:15:03   and then after I've had a bit more time I'm gonna go and take a look at some of

01:15:10   the others and get a feeling for what additional strap I want to buy. I am

01:15:16   tempted to go to an Apple store on April 10th but I'm also terrified of the thought.

01:15:19   Yeah, yeah I think you can make an appointment.

01:15:25   then I'll do that. To come see the watches. I will have already ordered mine but I

01:15:29   just want to go and take a look at the straps a bit more. Right, right. Yeah I

01:15:34   think one of the challenges I have between the sport and the

01:15:38   adjective list model is that the sport has got the you know it's the ionics

01:15:42   strengthened glass whereas the the adjective list one is the is the sapphire

01:15:50   so presumably it's more it's heavier but also a little more damage resistant but

01:15:59   I'm not sure whether that's enough of a thing to matter versus just choosing a

01:16:03   look but the black one the space gray actually that we talked about

01:16:07   earlier is the one that I'm very tempted to to get but but you know I haven't

01:16:13   decided 100% yet I just I'm tempted by the coming over to the dark side and I

01:16:17   I like the dark watch thing, so I'm thinking about that.

01:16:21   But I do like the stainless steel look, too.

01:16:23   It looks very nice.

01:16:25   -Listen to Kevin.

01:16:26   "Can you use Apple Pay on the Apple Watch

01:16:28   if you don't have an iPhone 6?"

01:16:30   -Yes.

01:16:32   I think we heard that from Apple or somebody.

01:16:35   I know at the event, somebody I talked to said

01:16:37   that it should work with the Apple --

01:16:39   or with the iPhone 5, that the secure thing in the watch

01:16:43   can be loaded with Apple Pay, and it should work.

01:16:47   I haven't confirmed that, but I believe that's the case, that you can actually use Apple

01:16:51   Pay on the watch.

01:16:52   >> I remember them saying that specifically, so that's great.

01:16:56   >> Yeah, that's awesome.

01:16:57   Right, because you can use the 5 with the watch, so you can also use the secure features

01:17:01   of the watch to use Apple Pay, even though you've got a 5.

01:17:05   That's cool.

01:17:06   >> So listener Dan Jason is interested how the kind of the feature to turn on and off

01:17:12   as you are raising it the watch to and from your face works and in reality is that a good

01:17:19   way to check the time?

01:17:20   - Yeah, I only checked this briefly but it seemed to me that the whole idea here is the

01:17:25   sensors are paying attention and trying to divine from your movements whether you're

01:17:30   looking at it and it worked pretty well to me.

01:17:34   When I would lift my wrist or turn my wrist to look at it, it lit up and showed me the

01:17:38   time.

01:17:39   it seems to work pretty well.

01:17:41   That it's not like with the Pebble,

01:17:42   the screen's always on,

01:17:44   but the backlight turns on with a certain amount of like a

01:17:48   tap, but you really have to kind of like whack it hard to

01:17:51   get it to light up.

01:17:52   And the Apple watch, you know,

01:17:54   I would glance at it and it would have the screen would come

01:17:56   on and show me the time.

01:17:57   So that's how it should be.

01:17:59   So it seemed to work,

01:18:00   but I didn't spend a lot of time with it.

01:18:01   This is one of those products that, you know,

01:18:02   we're all going to really need to live with them to really

01:18:05   form more clear, clear opinions about them.

01:18:08   Yeah, see, because my feeling about the purple was it was so hard to come on so it doesn't

01:18:13   trigger accidentally and that was where they drew the line.

01:18:16   So it's like in daily use, does the Apple Watch turn on all the time?

01:18:20   You know, they're the things that we don't know yet which we'll have to wait and see.

01:18:24   Has Apple really nailed it or is it more sensitive?

01:18:29   We'll have to wait.

01:18:30   Okay, so this is from listener Timokas.

01:18:33   What a great name.

01:18:34   I want to know how to say that properly.

01:18:36   That is a great name.

01:18:38   Do you agree that all iOS devices will be false sensitive this year, so a false touch?

01:18:43   I don't.

01:18:44   I think the iPad will be next and then the iPhone will wait for iPhone 7.

01:18:49   I don't think that...

01:18:51   I think that's too big of a thing for the S, but I would love to be corrected.

01:18:57   But I would be surprised if we saw it in the iPhone 6 Plus S's.

01:19:04   I agree with your general premise that this is not going to happen this year in all devices.

01:19:11   I think there's a decent chance that it could happen in an updated iPhone or an updated

01:19:18   iPad.

01:19:19   I think I'm not sure.

01:19:23   The iPad might be a little more likely, but I think it's possible it would happen in the

01:19:26   iPad Air and in the iPhone.

01:19:29   They're both chances.

01:19:31   All iOS devices I think not because I think the iPad mini is going to be lagging behind

01:19:36   now one generation at least behind the iPad Air.

01:19:41   Kind of where it should have been always.

01:19:43   Boo, boo-sss.

01:19:45   Well, no, I mean like they, but then Apple kind of...

01:19:48   I'm an iPad mini user so I'd really rather it stay, have stayed on the line with the

01:19:55   iPad Air instead of going back a step.

01:19:57   I agree. I mean I do agree that naturally but I just think that there I think that that time when it matched up was a

01:20:03   Was a I don't know why they did that but it was maybe a mistake

01:20:07   To trick people into thinking that this was gonna be what happened that the iPad main was gonna be this tiny powerhouse

01:20:16   Yeah, well not anymore

01:20:18   But anyway, I do think that iOS devices are going to get for sensitivity and and taptic engine

01:20:24   I think that's going to happen and we'll see it start to spread into the line from one

01:20:29   device or the other.

01:20:30   I think that'll happen.

01:20:31   I think the home button being replaced with a location that you touch and that gives you

01:20:37   taptic feedback so that they don't have to have the moving in and out home button anymore.

01:20:42   And moving in and out touch ID sensor, they can keep that a non-moving part.

01:20:47   I think that would probably be preferable.

01:20:49   So I think it's going to happen.

01:20:50   I think it's just a matter of time.

01:20:52   I don't think all will be this year, but I would not be surprised to see an iOS device

01:20:57   with force sensitivity this year.

01:21:01   False touch is the new retina.

01:21:03   Yeah, I think so.

01:21:05   I think Apple feels like this is a thing that they can innovate with, and that's why.

01:21:10   Like putting it in the Mac and having those shortcuts, that seems to be them saying this

01:21:16   is going to come everywhere in the Mac, because they've added all these different gestures

01:21:22   now on the Mac and they only work on one laptop, or two laptops with a 13 Retina update. So

01:21:29   that's going to have to change because right now it's just this, you know, you can't count

01:21:33   on that gesture being there.

01:21:35   This is from Phil. How many years until Apple devices are shipping with only USB-C ports

01:21:41   including iPhones and iPads?

01:21:43   Ha ha! I love these specific things that make the question easier to answer. I'm not sure

01:21:49   I believe that iPhones and iPads will ship with only USB-C ports for years, if ever.

01:21:56   I'm not sure that's a drop-in replacement for Lightning. You know, Apple appears to

01:22:01   have had advanced knowledge of USB-C and still gone ahead building Lightning. Lightning is

01:22:08   thinner. Lightning has some very specific features that Apple wants iOS devices to have.

01:22:15   gets to control that port and choose what connects to it because they own the

01:22:19   connector and they have to license it. I think I think every Mac that's sold will

01:22:28   have a USB C port by the end of next year. Because they'll just update the

01:22:35   whole line irrespective of anything else maybe. Yeah and there'll be some straggler you

01:22:39   know there'll be some straggler but in the fall there'll be new Macs there'll

01:22:42   be iMacs that have a USB-C port and eventually the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro will add USB-C

01:22:50   ports and so I think I feel like 2016 might be a good like end of 2016. All the new systems

01:22:56   maybe there'll still be something kicking around that's like an old model that's still

01:22:59   for sale like the non-Retina MacBook Pro but I think we're gonna see USB-C not only well

01:23:07   they're saying only USB-C I don't see that happening for years that's gonna be a long

01:23:11   time before we have only USB-C even on the Mac. I think it'll appear in the next year

01:23:15   and a half but only... That doesn't make sense. That's never, never,

01:23:21   never I would say because there will always be other ports on Macs.

01:23:24   It doesn't make sense to replace everything. Yeah, on every model, yeah, I don't think

01:23:30   so. The fact that Apple never went with mini-USB

01:23:35   tells you everything you need to know about the iPhone and the iPad in my opinion because

01:23:39   they could have solved the 30 pin size problem with one of those bad boys a long time ago.

01:23:46   They even went so far as to create this EU specific weird adapter because of EU laws

01:23:51   that make them do it. They're never gonna go with a non-controllable, completely Apple

01:23:57   controllable standard on iOS and iPad because they don't need to.

01:24:01   So thanks to Phil for throwing in enough absolutes that it made it a much easier question.

01:24:05   - Yep, and also to prove how wrong we'll be in the future.

01:24:08   So I look forward to that.

01:24:09   And finally today, this is from Mark.

01:24:12   Is Apple Watch considered an iOS device

01:24:14   or is it a third OS?

01:24:16   That's a really great question.

01:24:17   - Yeah, it is.

01:24:18   My guess is that we'll consider it an iOS device

01:24:20   like we consider the Apple TV an iOS device,

01:24:23   because I think from a development standpoint,

01:24:26   you know, watch kit and everything that's going on,

01:24:28   this is all coming from an iOS perspective.

01:24:31   So I'm gonna guess that when developers can compile apps

01:24:35   that actually run on the watch, they will be iOS apps with some very specific

01:24:42   traits, but they will be iOS apps is my guess. So I think this is going to

01:24:46   be an iOS app in the--or iOS device in the same way as the Apple TV, which is you

01:24:51   kind of don't think of it as that, and it's not the mainstream iOS, it's a

01:24:55   variation, but I think in the end we will probably just consider this an

01:24:59   iOS app.

01:25:00   Yeah, I feel like maybe it's more than the Apple TV, because it shares more parallels

01:25:07   with other iOS devices than the Apple TV does. Like the Apple TV interface is like web-based,

01:25:13   right? It's this weird thing, like stuff could just show up. And also, you know, developers can

01:25:18   develop for it, there's an app store for it. Like it feels more iOS than the Apple TV does to me,

01:25:25   anyway. Yeah, well the Apple TV, I think everybody's hoping that they will eventually

01:25:29   announced in Apple TV that has developer access to develop apps that are more

01:25:34   than the the really simple things that are in there now but that just that

01:25:37   rumors been out there for a while it just hasn't happened yet but the

01:25:40   potential is there but I think you're right out of the box the the watch is

01:25:43   gonna feel more like an iOS device than Apple TV that's the end that is it

01:25:49   excellent stuff thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of

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01:27:22   listening. Till then, say goodbye, Jason Snow. Until we meet in London, Myke. Farewell.

01:27:29   Fat travels. Thank you.

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