The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► the uncomfortable part cup number 1 i'll [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► go vegan and welcome to the incomparable [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► podcast this is jason Snell i am your [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► host what will the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► be well it's a good question i'm not [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► sure we know the actual answer to that [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► question [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► we're hoping you'll let us know here's [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► the idea the idea is to get a bunch of [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► people I know together who are will [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► admit a little bit on the geeky side and [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► talk about things that you would [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► probably call geek culture sci-fi comic [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► books fantasy maybe a little bit across [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► genres so I think the way this is going [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► to work is every week we're going to [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► have a new genre we're going to start [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► this week with books sci-fi novels in [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► particular next week move on to comic [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► books and then in forthcoming weeks [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► we'll throw in movies and TV and who [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► knows what else maybe we'll do a special [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► music edition and talk about Kiki music [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► or something I don't know [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► anyway that's the premise I've gathered [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► several of my friends in the technology [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► business actually but where else to find [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► people and today we're going to get [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► started with a discussion of sci-fi [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► novels [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► joining me is Scott McNulty hello Scott [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► hello Jason it's good to have you here [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► you're very well-read gentlemen I i [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► dunno how to read [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► that's good that's what well-read means [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► is he you read well Dan more'n as well [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► from far away on the in the eastern part [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► of the United States hello Dan [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► hello from far away ru well-read i'm [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► told that I've been read like a book [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► that is that what that means [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► well read then yes now that is a second [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► definition of what it means and from the [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► the Great Northwest Glenn Fleischman [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► joins whole England right from the echo [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► travel SF Seattle yes where the Sun has [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► finally come out now well had didn't [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► happen inside let's go today and when ru [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► well-read I am obsessively well-read [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► alright or excessively excessively you [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► know you're over red perhaps most [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► perfect i read i read way too much go [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► ahead and that's true there's so much [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► going out there to read i'm writing an [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► article as we speak [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► well that explains everything I believe [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► we all read the syfy do you read mostly [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► a sci-fi or do you mix in other stuff [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► with it i find myself reading a lot of [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► nonfiction lately alongside like sci-fi [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► I haven't found it's funny it's like [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► fiction is sort of too much for me at [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► the moment but science fiction i can [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► read that distance a little further or [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► you know interesting nonfiction that [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► it's engrossing but it doesn't get you [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► as emotionally tied up [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► what about you damn i'm kind of [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► omnivorous but i would say it's largely [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► focused on the science fiction and [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► fantasy i read a lot of mystery to know [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► as much as like my mother who is like an [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► exclusively like mystery reader but I [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► read these around mystery and then you [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► know if somebody else recommends a good [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► book to me i will almost certainly pick [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► it up but mostly sci-fi/fantasy whereby [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► you got i read a lot of sci-fi fantasy i [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► also read mysteries that are set in [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► historical periods because I like to [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► read very niche books is only three [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► people will read them i will be one [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► about that that's a great John because [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► you can actually read every single book [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► is published in it it's true all five of [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► them exactly so you know I irie I've [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► been reading a lot of books that involve [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► detectives in eighteen hundreds New York [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► it's a good that's a good specific very [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► you know linkedin time in place i'm [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► gonna start writing books like that [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► because i don't have an audience now at [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► least one there are four people who [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► would be very happy to expect as long as [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► I can read on my Kindle robotic but it's [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► a little known fact that Scott McNulty [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► has the largest collection of electronic [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► book readers in the world it's true and [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► yet when we asked him if he had read the [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► city in the city which is one of the [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► books i want to talk about his comment [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► was that he bought in hardcover [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► oh and hasn't read it Scott you've got [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► like 15 or creators why do you buy [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► something in hardcover or is that are [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► you just an equal-opportunity formatting [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► guy i I just I just like to spend money [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► so if I see something I will buy it [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► immediately [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► guys he's being a little disingenuous as [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► i know for a fact that he's got a table [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► that's a bit wobbly in his kitchen and [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► the kindle just isn't picking off of [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► them was too thick and you know scott [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► pilgrim was too thin but the city the [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► city was just right just right [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► exactly have you guys all started to [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► read stuff I know Scott has huh [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► and i have on eBook readers vs vs paper [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► you know I i did i read a few things on [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► my iPad but I got to be honest for me it [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► comes out of me being cheap because i [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► read so many books that like if I have [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► to buy everything in ebook format it [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► quickly becomes a very expensive hobby [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► and as this also the son of to [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► librarians I am I am mandated that I [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► must go to the library so i actually get [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► most of my stuff in the library still [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► I'm married to a librarian and I still [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► buy ebooks what about You Glenn this is [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► the same problem i had i was spending an [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► enormous amount of money on books a few [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► years ago and I realized with two [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► children and the same amount of space in [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► the house that one thing had to go and i [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► decided to keep the children and stop [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► buying books and get rid of the book so [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► I you know ebooks are great but I'm [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► doing library lot and you know I'd am [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► buying ebooks when I think the value is [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► there when I think I'll read something [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► again I got the city in the city for [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► instance i got that the library love to [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► pieces figured i'm going to read that at [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► least one more time which i have since [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► then and i bought a used copy of it in [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► paperback figuring that was the best [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► format for that particular you know [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► books enjoyment [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► so the city in the city by and I'm going [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► to get this name wrong its it's China [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► Mieville is that right i think the evil [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► i think it might be a naval yeah that [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► was me evil maybe I'll take me evil [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► example yes it's it's ish you know just [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► looks like that first name spelled china [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► right and it's a gentleman [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► it's an it's a my wife was like no [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► that's totally a girl I'm like it's [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► really not and I showed her picture into [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► no it's not if he's like he looks like [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► it's not really bald you know like [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► mr.clean dress kind of English and he's [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► an Englishman to so you know that he [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► bawled Englishman he could tell with my [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► China I mean clearly clearly he's gotten [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► top anyway sitting the city nominated [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► for Hugo word for you know best sci-fi [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► novel of the year and three of us have [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► read it so Scott you might have to be [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► the referee on this one but it's a [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► fascinating book and I know that I Glenn [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► actually prime the pump for me a little [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► bit with this one because he declared [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► before i had started it that he wasn't [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► sure it was sci-fi or not but that it [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► was great and so I went in reading it [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► and I read the whole thing sort of [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► trying to detect [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► there I thought that it was truly [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► science fictional or whether it was all [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► just in my head and and then it could [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► all be explained kind of normally so I [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► think the premise here is that there are [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► these two cities that are actually this [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► sir sorry Scott that are actually the [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► same city but they're consensually they [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► don't see each other they try not to see [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► each other so they're kind of overlaid [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► in terms of geography but for political [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► reasons they are two separate cities [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► with two separate geographies even [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► though they are overlaid said or did I [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► know it's not like that at all Jason [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► that's not what the book is only [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► visiting operate they occupy two [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► slightly different vibrating planes in [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► space yeah well it's i5n isn't it crowd [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► really miss read that book then or is [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► why would i would argue it's a it's a [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► mystery in some ways to what is it is a [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► police you know it's my I so it's I've [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► cedral to our central yes set in a [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► setting a very interesting environment [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► if it were only set in 1802 new york [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► city i totally would have read it [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► already York City and New Jersey occupy [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► the same point in space in that book [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► well I mean I don't know the experience [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► I had when reading this was and I read [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► it awhile back so i might be a little [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► fuzzy but I think I very vividly [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► remember the first few pages where [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► you're trying to figure out exactly [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► what's going on in terms of this work [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► because you're just kind of thrown into [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► it right it doesn't actually I yeah [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► you're right yeah and you you have to [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► start putting it together and seeing [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► like you you're so we're seeing it [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► through the the eyes of the protagonist [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► who is a police inspector and he's so [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► accustomed to this this consensual [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► agreement that we don't see the people [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► from the other city that as someone who [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► is like you know we're basically [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► tourists in this in this strange realm [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► and so we're kind of challenge to figure [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► out what's going on from the perspective [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► of someone who is always lived there and [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► thus is perfectly in tune with this [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► whole idea that will make the [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► provocative statement that one of that [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► it that the book rewires your brain as [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► you read it uh-huh and what I am to [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► follow up i think the best science [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► fiction the best science fiction for me [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► that I like our books that try to rewire [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► your brain while you read [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► NM is one of those yes I'm extend this [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► certainly is that like as i'm reading [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► the book and i'm getting the perspective [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► from you I think skilled or something [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► like that you feel right yeah funeral [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► and i'm getting his perspective in as I [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► trying to see through his eyes [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► my head is kind of doing this why can't [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► really think that way and like okay I've [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► almost got it and you know they don't [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► think wait a minute can't be quite that [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► way and then evil brings up something [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► that's you have an objection well dogs [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► can't see this pets can't see this and [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► in passing he'll explain how that works [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► or wolves or children or children [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► violence all the time then explains how [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► there's exceptions and you're like well [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► who would enforce such a relationship [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► and then oh well there's another party [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► that comes out so he keeps promise [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► anticipates as your brain is as [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► rewriting its own ability to perceive [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► this world that's being invented around [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► you you know he just keeps throwing in [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► the explanation you almost the time you [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► need it for commits that kind of it's [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► kind of like a literary equivalent of [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► like an Escher painting right that's [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► where you're like you're staring at it [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► and it looks like one thing and then as [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► your brain sort of adapt to the strange [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► geometry that's going on there [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► it looks like it starts to look like [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► something else you start to get an idea [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► like oh this isn't all that's going on [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► here okay yeah that staircase connects [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► there but it also is like upstairs and [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► downstairs of all time when i read it a [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► second time the thing was funny as I [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► thought okay well the second time this [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► is like whenever you read a murder [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► mystery ok I know who did it so I know [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► that conceit here I'll read it a second [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► time and it will snap into a clear [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► relief and it did not it is still in [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► fact it's even worse because I could see [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► all the stuff that he hid that you only [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► can pick up on subsequent readings was [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► even more traces of ambiguity it's like [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► Oh My heavens it's so unlike NM which [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► sets you down in a world that is clearly [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► not our own and with a lot of terms that [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► you have to learn with the city in the [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► city it's plausibly our world it's a [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► country you don't really recognize in [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► Eastern Europe and you know you don't [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► really know but then he starts dropping [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► the verbs on you that people are [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► unseeing things and you're like what is [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► that mean and his login tactical yes [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► catching alter all these things yeah [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► cross topically yeah yeah and so and so [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► you end up trying to decrypt all of this [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► and unpacking you're right it is like [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► the [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► I think any any good novel it's like the [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► novelist is trying to hack into your [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► brain and novel is a machine that is [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► designed to work on your brain and work [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► on how your brain processes the [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► information that's given and this does [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► that in a really interesting way and [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► when you get to the point awful where [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► you get introduced to the concept of the [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► breach and what the breaches which is [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► essentially the police who are making [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► sure that you don't violate this [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► consensual hallucination about the two [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► cities being separate when they're not [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► for me that was when the thing really [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► started to ramp up is that the throwing [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► in that third actor which is the [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► patroller of the of the borders and for [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► me that's the central question with the [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► city and the city about if it's science [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► fictional or not is what is the breach [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► and on twitter we mentioned this and I [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► had somebody say oh no its total breach [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► is totally explainable as just the [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► conjunction of the two cities and it's [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► not science fiction at all and yet when [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► you read the description and maybe Glenn [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► since you reread it when you read the [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► description of the breach and how great [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► the breach appears and what they do and [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► how they seem to know what's going on [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► your led to believe that it's this disc [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► almost supernatural kind of force and [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► that's great up to the point where he's [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► led into the offices of the bringing [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► your like drab not interesting in any [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► sort of way [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► bureaucratic offices they're not magical [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► at all the kind of clunky and write like [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► that famous arthur c clarke you know any [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► sufficiently advanced technology is [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► indistinguishable from magic [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► they seem magical i think from the [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► perspective of the people in the city [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► and the other city because they have [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► these powers or these technology that is [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► so far advanced that it's not really [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► understood but I think that you could I [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► mean that's how I felt about anyways I [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► really felt like these are guys who are [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► not necessarily magical but at the same [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► time they are in possession of some sort [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► of technology that lends them a magical [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► or a supernatural air [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► yeah there's a bit of this kind of you [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► know its reference another Stephenson [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► book of snow crash one could argue that [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► it's better on the border of being a [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► neurological or neural programmers that [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► the breach operates because the people [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► who act as the breach are able to [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► manipulate or understand how everyone [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► else has partition their minds and that [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► they can walk back and forth between [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► these two cities by change [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► changing their own perception this whole [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► there's all this subtle stuff in the [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► book about the way someone walks the [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► collars the the smells [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► there's this hilarious but in which two [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► are the police officer and his sergeants [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► been assigned to him he takes her to a [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► forgot the name of the other city it's [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► some is al coma a yo-yo ma yeah he'll [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► come he goes the in so he goes to little [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► ill coma in his own City which is like a [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► immigrant district from the other city [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► and his sergeant gets freaked out for a [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► second because she thinks she's not [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► supposed to see it but there are tells [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► in this immigrant area where the colors [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► aren't quite the same smells maybe the [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► same and you're thinking you know and as [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► I'm going through the same confusion [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► reading the book about wait a minute [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► this violates every rule that he told me [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► about but all know here's the exception [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► or when they go through a little bit [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► when you transition just when he's [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► gotten you comfortable with the first [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► city he takes you through to the second [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► one that you're that you're suddenly [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► going through this transition the [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► officer has to go and meet with a [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► counterpart in the other city and [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► suddenly he has to have to go through [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► classes to learn to unsee and see the [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► right things and then goes through this [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► transition space that's the same on both [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► sides and suddenly he's emerges in his [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► own city in the other city you basically [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► go into this building that's the [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► agreed-upon border point and then you [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► emerge on the other side of the building [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► but you're still in the same city of it [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► yeah it's the which is my think that's [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► really i agree with you guys that were [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► you like your mind really starts racing [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► to catch up right like oh my god what is [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► going on how does he [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► how do you go from seeing you know [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► seeing a nun seeing these things that [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► you have been trained to for all these [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► years to totally inverting that and I [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► think you know he does a great job of [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► putting us in the shoes then of the [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► person who feels like sort of as out of [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► place as we felt coming into the book [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► what's your verdict is there anything [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► that we would call sort of traditional [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► science fictional here or is there is [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► the kind of magic of the city in the [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► city just the concept is is such a [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► mind-blower but it's not requiring [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► anything that we don't have in our [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► regular lives today I think it's [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► fascinating lee in this hazy border i [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► think he does everything in his power it [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► without working hard is the most amazing [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► thing I have to say is that the book is [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► really a joy to read you know [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► and in some ways like it's difficult or [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► stressful to read but it's more like he [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► presents this great story and he just [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► keeps picking up the edge of the way in [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► which you think about science fiction or [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► fantasy and he's written previous things [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► like pretty toes street station is a [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► fascinating grimy book i felt like i had [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► a shower 50 times were in that book [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► everything is decaying and grimy but [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► perdido Street Station clearly is it [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► somewhere alien right yeah really it's [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► science fiction fantasy that the science [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► picture that the technology has become [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► so advanced it's magic or there is magic [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► or whatever there's clearly something [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► else going on [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► this stops you know many many degrees [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► sort of that but I you know I couldn't [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► tell you when I reread it someone on [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► Twitter so to be like well it's clearly [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► blah blah and I'm like okay you're an [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► engineer first and second and another [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► clear about it like you have to make a [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► decision you can make a decision you [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► start reading the book this is all in [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► people's heads mrs. a political metaphor [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► but there are points in the book we're [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► like wait a minute [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► the breach officer or breach whatever [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► maybe not under officers the breach [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► person has this device that doesn't make [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► any sense but is it just a gun and it [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► looks different or the breach can break [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► into any web site anywhere in the world [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► but are they just hackers or do they [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► have super advanced magical sci-fi [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► technology it's just you never cross the [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► book barrier he doesn't give it away at [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► the NSA all and by the way it's all [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► sides yes they're aliens low or or hey [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► was poorly welcome to the breach [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► here's your magical laser that doesn't [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► happen [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► I like what I've read every several of [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► his other books including prettiest each [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► station and the to follow ons to that [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► and I would just say from up from a [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► qualitative standpoint I mean like Glenn [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► says it's a very different type of book [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► i would argue that is my favorite of all [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► of his books that I think he does the [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► most fully realized job of creating a [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► setting which is fascinating because he [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► spent so much time detailing is totally [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► alien settings in pretty do Street [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► Station and the other books in those [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► worlds and yet somehow those never came [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► to life to me is so much as the city in [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► the city as as alien and strange as it [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► is with these two cities overlying each [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► other [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► I thought it was fantastic and it really [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► I I don't know that I would put a label [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► on it by saying that it's science [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► fiction if I mean if you know very [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► broadly speaking you could say it's [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► fantasy or something like that [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► it's one of the best things i've read of [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► any genre do you want to find out by jon [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► renau not defined as one of the best [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► things I've read in years i just i'm [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► floored by and I can't wait to pick it [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► up and read it again [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► I liked it and I i might read it again [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► although I have to say I actually voted [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► at second of the six hugo award nominees [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► it was a close one but I placed it [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► second to the windup girl by paulo not [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► another hard-to-pronounce name [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► Paolo Bacigalupi i think his name is and [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► have any of you read the windup girl I [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► have red wine of course kotse first I [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► was the idea haha oh but before before [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► we talk about the windup girl i would [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► like to read a one-star review on amazon [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► for the city and the city i love this a [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► dramatic reading couldnt well if you're [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► feeling nostalgic for the good old days [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► of those happy cold war years and long [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► for a divided Berlin and you might take [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► heart on this novel otherwise steer [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► clear of this mess where the object is [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► to beat around the bush plot-wise for as [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► long as possible the cool kids might [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► like this writer haha but that's only [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► because they've been told he's cool to [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► like that is from David Keith known as [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► fur and tats are you mean I need I need [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► a stamp that's called engineer and to [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► stamp it on Twitter tweets and reviews [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► and when he called you a cool kid what [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► are you talking about i'm clearly if [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► we're the cool kids is clearly the [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► situation is totally out of whack you [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► had something is very wrong here [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► maybe he maybe he was writing for an [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► alternate view of the novel i want to [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► point out one other thing about the [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► novel it synthesis at its china has a [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► predilection for this so you know how [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► George Lucas's naming our is horrible [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► George Lucas's worst attribute is his [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► ability to assign horrible horrible name [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► you don't like Elyon sleazebag oh yes or [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► media clear radians and well i'll post [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► post like 1983 ourselves all right all [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► right hand solo great name Luke [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► Skywalker great everything else Wedge [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► Antilles [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► he's great now come on so that in mind [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► here [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► china has a media has a pitch perfect [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► way of creating these names even the [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► names that you read in the city in the [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► city or perdidos each station is other [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► books they make your brain slide around [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► like I've studied German some Eastern [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► European languages and he gets a name [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► that you like that sort of familiar but [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► not quite it's like dancing around my [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► neurons and it's perfect without [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► assigning a place or a thing to it [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► white girl by paolo bacigalupi i think [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► scott this is a real kind of dystopian [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► it's settin in thailand in the [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► twenty-first late mid to late 21st [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► century 22nd century and sort of oil all [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► the oil is running out and thereby [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► everybody is like using elephants or or [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► like DNA reconstituted mammoths to drive [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► big sort of like wheels to charge up [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► springs to generate energy because [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► there's no energy left in there like [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► gene-altered people it's definitely a [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► dark dark dark book as it is very dark [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► there's there's a constant food shortage [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► due to genetic runaway genetic a-league [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► mutated viruses and plagues so they call [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► there are American companies seemingly [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► that stockpile genetically altered food [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► stuffs that they send to other countries [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► that cannot be grown so that people [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► can't grow their own food so that they [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► are dependent on these countries to [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► supply food the calorie companies [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► exactly in the calorie men from the [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► calorie companies and apparently was it [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► simply the netherlands was destroyed in [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► a conflict over their seed bank ya roar [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► Swift I think it's that I think that's [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► actually a certain sweden and norway [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► it's where there actually is a genetic [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► seed bank and then they destroyed it in [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► a war over the trying to get the seeds [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► out there is apparently a seed bank and [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► in Thailand that that the calorie man is [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► trying to get these posing as a [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► industrialist and there's Epsilon's and [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► i have to say that should be a checklist [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► for every sci-fi or fantasy novel is are [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► there Zeppelin's in a city setting [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► because right [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► zeppelins check all right i mean i'm [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► sold if there is Evelyn's and that's why [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► you that that's why I got your vote [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► right that's right what's the plan [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► that's what pushed it over the edge for [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► me is that there was your shit everytime [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► air quieres ship plot points yes it's [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► true and I was a really good book i also [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► read he wrote a young adult book called [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► shipbreakers set in the same universe [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► which I actually thought was better [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► haha but that's just because i have a [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► low reading comprehension you're not one [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► of the cool kids [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► I'm not gonna cook it so I was like [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► whatever windup girl is it is dark it is [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► its political it's it's a it's an [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► ecological political message about the [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► you he was the logical logically what [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► will happen if there is a global warming [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► you know washes away I mean that the the [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► city in in white girl is holding on by a [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► thread because it's got bikes everywhere [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► and when they give out it's going to [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► flood and so there's that and there's [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► this whole idea of genetically modified [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► food and so there's all this all this [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► kind of politics and extrapolation which [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► I love in sci-fi and quite frankly i [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► don't actually even care about the [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► politics i love the fact that it's an [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► extrapolation of like well if if we take [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► this to be true what might that mean and [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► that's what I got out of the lineup girl [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► was this really interesting kind of [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► mishmash of all these sort of trends [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► that you could you can see today and [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► where did they go [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► and if they go to a really dark place in [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► the in this case and it doesn't have to [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► be that way but that's the direction he [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► chose to go in and you know none of the [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► characters you can really bank on 44 to [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► survive the book which i think i like [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► and in fact you think you've got kind of [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► a rotation of viewpoint characters going [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► in and all of a sudden I'm one of them [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► isn't there anymore and there's a [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► replacement viewpoint caring like else [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► okay [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► holy endeavor that's fascinating ever [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► heard of that as a mechanism where like [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► you have a new person that the new point [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► of view [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► yeah well give you so much without [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► giving too much away I it's enjoyable [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► that you've got one of these viewpoint [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► characters who who like get pushed off a [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► building and and his deputy is now the [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► Cuban character because he's gone and [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► although his ghost his ghost speaks to [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► her whether she's real or imagined that [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► we don't know it's a real ghost or not [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► certain and as i was reading that seems [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► like he's not gonna kill this character [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► and he can possibly kill the sketch yeah [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► i think this is a cyclic convention [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► thing to talk about too is that there [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► are novels know like a novel in which [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► the character is an adolescent at the [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► beginning and end is called juvenile [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► right isn't that like any genre is not [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► the case even if its adult novel to gym [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► it's a juvenile right so there's there's [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► this thing like this is all to all the [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► characters are most of them died at the [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► end of the novel or before the other [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► novel then there's a real pre-election [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► sci-fi to kill everybody i read a book [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► the day was so depressing I can't [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► remember the title i'll never read [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► anything by that i mean by that author [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► again because everybody dies like [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► literally everybody dies at the end I'm [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► like what in God's name is another it [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► could have been the windup girl action [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► you have been at all [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► not everybody not everybody dies in the [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► line of girls just you know we let me be [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► doing that though is george RR martin [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► because he's really quickly like still [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► off viewpoint characters like he gets [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► them into situations where it's like you [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► know if you've read any sort of you you [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► know familiar with any sort of drama [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► like all it's the impossible situation [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► how are they going to get out of this [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► and then they don't they yeah and you're [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► like oh haha [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► and so I saw someone asked him about [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► that one said I convention and he's like [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► yeah i like to keep people on their toes [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► yeah i just i just finished the third of [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► those of those song of ice and fire [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► books and in the middle of it to not [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► even at the end in the middle of it one [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► of these two of these characters that I [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► that I expected would survive certainly [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► one of them who had been a viewpoint [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► characters since almost the very [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► beginning and don't know they're both [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► dead in about four pages homeland just [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► dead and you like steak he likes to [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► killed while that said that said nothing [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► you know it's fantasy it's like you know [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► fantasy and scifi and comic books right [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► nothing's ever forever yes well I I [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► don't last and then you get to the end [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► of that book and you find that that's [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► true but at the same time I think you [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► know there is something to be said for [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► that you know reality aspect of getting [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► characters into situations where it's [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► not like a ridiculous escapade where [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► they escaped but in fact you know there [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► are casualties right i mean i guess [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► that's a certain type of writing and [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► you've got to be sort of sign up for [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► that when you go into it but I mean I [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► think it's a I sort of relish that not [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► because i like the killing characters [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► off but like because it gives you real [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► fear right for all the rest of the [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► characters you know [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► the characters you really come to care [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► about because you're like oh my god you [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► know they could conceivably die [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► you know it makes you very invested in [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► in the whole storyline is going on there [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► and i think that there's something to be [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► said for that [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► Glenn one another another novel that you [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► mentioned that you read recently and [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► we're raving about is for the win by [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► cory doctorow yeah and I i would I was [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► interested in hearing what you thought [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► about that i read little brother and [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► while I admired the sort of technique [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► that he used and some of the plot points [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► i actually despise the book because I [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► thought it was such a just ridiculous [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► lecture that it was like a download of a [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► manifesto in novel form in it really got [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► on my bad side so it's for the win gonna [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► make me hate cory doctorow more or less [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► well I didn't read little brother [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► because i have a feeling it was a plum [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► akin novel form ya young adult novel [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► perform so that so that teenagers will [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► find out why how important it is to [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► compile your own I was entirely agree [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► with Jason but I mean that said hi [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► I mean I liked the book III mean it is [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► advantageous agreement of fun [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► yeah i mean i-i know you know that stuff [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► right because you know Corey's politics [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► going into it and he's not one to ever [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► hold back from that kind of thing I read [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► a hard a hard SF story he had to hugo [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► nominees last year one was a little [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► brother and was this hard SF story that [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► he wrote that was great it was so great [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► and I think in the end I realized it was [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► because if it was political it wasn't [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► political in that sort of polemic you [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► know lecturing kind of feeling that I [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► got from what if you ever go read down [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► and out in the magic kingdom yes also a [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► right which is also very good and is [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► also shied away from that his sort of [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► political leanings but I mean I think [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► he's a talented writer and he's a is [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► mark I and you know I i know that [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► there's a lot of you know his work is [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► also very very divisive in that regard [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► because of the politics i think i think [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► he's an extremist and I generally yes i [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► agree with sort of what he's about [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► but not to the extreme that he takes it [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► right I don't mind having political [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► statement obviously the windup girl is a [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► deeply political book as a sci-fi novel [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► it's incredibly political but I didn't [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► mind it because it was about it was all [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► kind of infused in a setting where as a [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► little brother was just their whole [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► chapters that were like he well he took [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► his xbox and he used the open-source [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► colonel too [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► create the encrypted network so that and [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► she's like oh my god it's it's not [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► theirs [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► it's just all artifice the final are [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► there at all sounds like Atlas Shrugged [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► only completely different with Atlas [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► coated annapolis web [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► well I you know having that little [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► brother I can address that although you [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► know core is an extremist and he's and [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► he's unapologetically you know in favor [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► of certain things regardless of the [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► consequences but I i think for the way I [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► say for the win for the win because it [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► is much more like down out the magic [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► kingdom and it's got it you know first [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► off its a rollicking good story like [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► it's it's a story that spools itself out [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► in a really interesting way taking place [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► across I don't know four continents all [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► the protagonist just about our teenagers [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► are a few adults involved and it is an [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► insight into a world that Corey [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► understands quite well and he clearly [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► saw expert help to tell the story [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► correctly in places he didn't know so [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► there's a lot of stuff about multiplayer [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► worldwide multiplayer games games that [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► he's invented for the book but that have [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► a close resemblance to games out there [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► so it's set within and without [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► is it said sort of in a game world and [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► in the real world or is it both or one [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► or the other it's more like the [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► description of a about well you know [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► action is based on a story he wrote i'm [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► blanking on the name of a little Anya or [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► something it's a short story where he's [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► changed he's kept some of the things the [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► same it's it's mostly outside the game [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► world there's not much of a sense of [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► being in the game world all the time the [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► game world is used for political [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► organizing and you know that sounds very [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► polemical no but I know this is what's [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► funny is i mean the book and the book [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► starts with like these great narrative [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► elements he's i interviewed Corey a few [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► weeks ago for an article I'm writing [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► about crowdfunding I said Korea just [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► read for the win and I'm unclear when [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► you actually transform yourself into a [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► 70 year old indian girl at what point in [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► your life did that occur because he [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► writes from the perspective of chinese [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► american indian and even like other [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► cultural you any rights in a way that [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► feels like it has a great degree of [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► verisimilitude it's not like what people [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► think their lives are like it's much [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► more what from my reading at least their [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► lives are actually like he doesn't hide [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► the grid the danger the TDM and all that [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► but it's still a very good strong story [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► now in [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► this is gonna sound ridiculous in the [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► middle of this he explains how things [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► like credit default swaps work and I i [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► know that sounds pretty boring and [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► political and it is not it's very [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► entertaining because he's weaving this [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► story about this sort of rise of a new [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► working class and that suppressed and [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► he's telling it to the voices of all [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► these very very interesting people and [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► events that were familiar with you know [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► uprisings put down in china and the [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► shifting of labor and gold farming you [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► know if you know if you follow this at [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► all there are thousands tens of [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► thousands millions of people worldwide [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► whose entire occupation in very poor [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► conditions is to go into these massive [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► multiplayer online games and too tedious [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► tasks to make gold that is sold in game [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► the players for real money through [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► various means and some games tolerated [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► some do not [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► but there are ways around it and I think [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► that's the core is this like real world [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► situation that sounds ridiculous but [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► there are millions and millions of [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► people but i believe think this is [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► documented now engaged in this [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► profession you know they're working in [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► sweatshops 12 hours a day or whatever to [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► farming game and so it would be science [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► fiction it were actually real [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► yeah I i mean is that sounds like the [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► science fictional premise and yet it's [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► it's true there it's the arbitrage of [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► the developed world versus developing [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► world is that there's and the internet [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► leverages the ability for the developing [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► world to use it's incredibly cheap labor [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► to produce the results that would be [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► unbelievably marginal in the developed [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► world like I'm not going to put 12 hours [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► in for the equivalent of one dollar and [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► to make you know to be paid that and to [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► make ten dollars for my employers and [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► that's possible in china and india and [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► some other places so you know I think [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► the story is very enjoyable that you [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► know i'll tell you the brief narrative [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► without giving anything away is that [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► it's basically gamers all over the world [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► some of them gold farmers some of them [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► more interested in the gameplay wind up [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► feeling like compressed and betrayed and [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► as if they could have a voice and don't [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► and they develop essentially a worldwide [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► workers network that allows them to try [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► to push for like unionization and other [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► things again the sound stuff polemical [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► but it's a really fun story it doesn't [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► get overwrought any mixes in economic [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► education in a way that is totally [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► natural because he's trying to explain [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► to both me as someone who's a very [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► technical person but not a gamer and two [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► other people who are not involved in the [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► world always try to explain how the game [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► economy works in terms of the real [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► autonomy as opposed to the real economy [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► in terms of game economies [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► wow you did Glenn you're going to make [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► me read more current cory doctorow I'm [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► gonna curse you for that it's very fun i [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► got through the book I was reading it [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► like it was on fire because it's just it [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► is a rollicking good read and you'd [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► understand credit default swaps [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► afterward with is reading like it's on [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► fire the opposite of what I couldn't put [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► it down because it's like it that's [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► where the same thing you'd be an audio [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► making up the road across or down that [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► is i just got a really fast i think this [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► way as if the pages were burning away as [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► i read them i was reading so fast there [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► is a market that Corey would probably [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► oppose books that incinerator [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► well he'd argue that any book with DRM [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► is essentially a Burn After Reading well [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► don't share the dvds that [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► self-destructed [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► yes that old dude is the old yeah yeah [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► consumers really wanted to kiss i love [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► that Corey talks the talk but he also [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► walks the walk down the magic kingdom i [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► actually had sitting on my kindle for a [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► while now because he just makes that [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► available as a free download in its it [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► because it's a very good book i mean i [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► read a paper copy of it so I didn't you [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► know paper and flames as i as i read it [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► but it's got some really interesting [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► ideas in it and uh it's just it's set in [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► disney world and it's just it's kind of [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► crazy and and fun and I i think that so [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► far as the favorite my favorite of the [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► things that he's written not little [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► brother little brother I like little [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► brother but I mean I you know at the [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► same time you know what I'm saying about [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► them appreciate it is though [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► no I I totally get that I mean like I [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► don't I don't that's not necessarily [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► something that I'm cognizant of because [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► you know I knew going like I said I knew [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► going in this is corey you know I'm [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► gonna take it with a grain of salt [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► you know for his political stuff but you [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► know I still think the story is [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► interesting and I think the characters [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► are cool and you know there is a kind of [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► you know it is kind of your typical like [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► I what I like about it is that it's one [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► it's like your typical movie where it's [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► on the run from you know the man and [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► only it's you know it's like a teenager [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► you know instead of you know it like [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► Sheila before whatever [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► in addition to what will assign some [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► reading but we'll do that offline that i [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► love it if we could like all agree at [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► some point to read something soon and I [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► and discuss it that kinect kinect [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► guessing since we're still like [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► establishing a format sure there is no [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► format is that we have also what [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► discovered already [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► I was gonna say yes and I know Glenn [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► already brought up for the wind but like [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► perhaps you know the rest of us on here [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► might suggest a book that's a good idea [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► I was going to start with what are you [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► reading and then perhaps we can suggest [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► a book after that absolutely you're [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► you're in charge [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► you're the boss so now i'm really not [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► i'm really really are my behind me and [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► I'm the agitator in on this podcast I'm [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► not the boss now do what I say and tell [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► me what are you what are you reading [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► Glen are you reading something right now [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► I well I just finished recently a book [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► recommended for Cory but it down you [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► supposed to be on a podcast why are you [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► reading random violence offenses book is [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► burning he has to reduce supporters and [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► don't burn themselves glad the is a book [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► suggested by cory doctorow on the [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► bling-bling blog and i immediately got a [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► library surprisingly and bitter seeds [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► and the the synopsis i just read it I [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► think officially a couple weeks ago and [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► it's not see Superman who are really [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► Superman and super powerful beings that [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► are evil that are sort of helping us [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► during World War two [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► so it's it's entertaining but a little [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► crazy and it gets crazier as a novel [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► goes on [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► I'd say ultimately disappointing but [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► very interesting and well-written [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► fascinating and sort of becomes more [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► comic booky as the book goes on [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► wow I haven't even heard of that who's [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► the author its role model fumble it is i [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► have read something by on his sucks he's [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► terrible [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► let me consult the entire really from [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► its he's into the city in the city i [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► think it's written by google still [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► loading in tribulus is his name [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► alright who i believe is written a [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► previous books i think this has gotten [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► more play in some of his earlier novels [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► everyone wants to believe that the Nazis [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► had actual Superman not just big brawny [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► blonde people so I want to believe that [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► yes we all we all want not Superman but [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► he's actually done something about it [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► but what if there were with Dan what are [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► you reading [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► I'm currently reading I set aside i was [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► a part of the way through a nonfiction [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► book Michael Lewis is the big short [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► which is very good outside the realm of [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► this project [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► yes and I said it aside to read uh [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► because I got out the library so i only [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► have a week to read it which is likely [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► to the library that's like drm [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► and live like it's like it's like it's [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► on fire Shane library man called tongues [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► of serpents which is the sixth book in a [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► series by a woman named Naomi Novik [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► which basically is predicated on this [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► premise of its the Napoleonic Wars and [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► ships are fighting oh there's these huge [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► naval battles but they're also dragons [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► I've been addicted to this series to i [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► picked up the first 1i think it was free [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► as a kindle book from amazon right that [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► understands what they do is the first [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► first book is free and you're all [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► publishers have realized that if I can [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► get you hooked on a free book 1 then the [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► rest of them you will follow [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► I really wanted first posterous to me [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► and I read it and I'm like this is darn [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► good that makes me actually over there [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► could be dragons turn the polyamine [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► because basically the way that they [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► organize it is it the dragons are [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► basically they've always been dragons [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► dragons are basically used as like the [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► aerial core like the like it's like [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► world war one dog fights except they're [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► on dragons instead of in planes but the [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► sector employees or so if you want like [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► the high-concept log mine [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► it's like Dragon dogfight it's like it's [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► like Horatio Hornblower streets and [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► McCaffrey wow oh my god that is Ananda [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► poliana quartz which means Scoville like [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► it because its historical exactly i [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► actually I well i bought the first three [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► of those in paperback and I haven't read [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► that yeah well she came out this was [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► kind of weird because the first we were [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► released as tree as mass-market [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► paperbacks all the same time because I [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► guess she told she had written the three [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► of them like a whore and she's now up to [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► the sixth one I I have to say I think [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► she gets interesting threads as the [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► series goes on because i think that the [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► dragons in this world are all like not [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► just you know ascension but like pretty [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► Darren intelligent like they can all [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► they're all got like facilities for [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► languages and and stuff like that so [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► that their becomes a very interesting [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► issue of do they have rights you know [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► what is the sort of you know how should [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► they be treated to be treated like [TS]

00:39:32 ◼   ► animals should be treated like people [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► and it does it was kind of cool schools [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► that she totally spans the globe with [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► the adventures that they start you know [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► in sort of England napoleonic wars and [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► then they span out to Africa and China [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► and in this most current volume [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► australia and she's got a great year for [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► the dialogue and settings are fantastic [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► i do think that her plots have started [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► to lose a little bit of thread and I [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► think she said there's a she has ideas [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► for a couple more books but I hoping [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► that you sort of wrap this up and moves [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► on to something else because I think [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► she's been immersed herself in [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► Napoleonic Wars for long enough haven't [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► we all [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► and Scott got whatever what are you [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► reading [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► I will speak i'm not reading this [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► currently but it involves dragon so i [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► will mention it very briefly I guess [TS]

00:40:15 ◼   ► magazine the the adamantine palace was a [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► really good book about a it's a fantasy [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► book and it's basically these people [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► kind of enslaved the dragons and drug [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► them up so that they are docile and no [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► longer control themselves and can be [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► written and it follows the path of one [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► dragon who kind of gets free of this and [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► regains its intelligence so check that [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► out but I'm reading right now a book [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► called Jason you like this [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► the dream of perpetual motion and is the [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► narrator is imprisoned in a Zeppelin [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► hovering above the city sorry react so [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► you're just making this up right now [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► aren't you [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► I have not and the the Zeppelin is [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► powered by a perpetual motion machine [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► that may or may not be failing [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► I and he describes that's how it starts [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► and then he describes how he got to [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► where he is and it's very interested [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► steampunky if anyone likes steampunk ah [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► yes and we should talk to me on perhaps [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► in another installment about a [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► Boneshaker which I know Scott you and I [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► have read that is steampunky as well [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► that has plus zombie I was gonna say [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► plus so I sep ones [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► yes zombie + Zeppelin equals yeah for [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► somebody to do a steampunky Brewster and [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► really once that starts in punky [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► Brewster's Millions actually that best [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► crossover ever if I i'm sort of this [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► genre thing is certain you know this is [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► I had a interregnum I think I didn't [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► read sci-fi much for years re relatives [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► some classics in the last several years [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► I've started quite a bit of it again and [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► it is like all these new genres like [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► steampunk was and they're sort of you [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► know sort of cyberpunk and there was [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► Bruce Sterling was running steampunk in [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► like nineteen ninety-five right [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► in but like that the difference engine [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► but like steampunk is like you know [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► totally ochre all and then there's the [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► new weird which meal falls into but [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► there's a ton of other authors writing [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► that then there's like the sort of [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► revenge of the Golden Age kinds of [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► things that are like super hard science [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► or super non hard science so it seems [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► like there's a like this flux must be [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► more readers demanding more different [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► kinds of things for these explosion of [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► new genres but you know we'll always [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► have Zeppelin's and revisionist world [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► war two Nazi fantasy so what will always [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► have Zeppelin's is definitely the name [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► of this episode was a Jason Jason let me [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► turn it back to you what are you reading [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► oh yes so i just finished that third [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► book in the george RR martin sequence so [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► i have a feast for crows next but you [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► know how / in ratchet resent that ladies [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► given how slow he isn't writing those [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► and then it'll probably be another year [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► before the next one is out i'm just [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► looking to let it sit there until I can [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► handle it but we need a podcast about [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► how fantasy writers take forever between [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► actually speaking of dragons i'm reading [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► at long last after putting it off for [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► like a year i'm finally reading the girl [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► with the dragon tattoo by stieg larsson [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► which is not a genre black just read [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► that not long i just i just read it as [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► well maybe we should talk to maybe we'll [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► talk about in our international I guess [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► the key mystery podcast that's real [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► mystery and and it's got some finance in [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► their writing some journalism in there [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► and all anyway I'm finally going to read [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► that I just started reading that and i'm [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► also in the middle of science book from [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► eternity to here by sean carroll which [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► is about time and how we define time and [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► and trying to figure out why the arrow [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► of time points forward why did things [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► happen in one direction and not the [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► other [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► I hear it's the fire in which we burn [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► yes yes I was gonna say ty it's also an [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► episode time's arrow also an episode of [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► Star Trek The Next Generation we did it [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► is Morris Wayne buried in san francisco [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► where I'm speaking to you data's head is [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► here with me now [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► what is it reading right now poor brent [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► Spiner will always has a plan so that's [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► what i'm reading so what should we read [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► next I actually think that dead Glennon [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► and dan you re Boneshaker yeah I think [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► that's right shows the Sun and it's got [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► someone's it [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► I like a zombies zombies it's set in the [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► Pacific Northwest it's set in seattle [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► told it was an altar but it's an [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► alternate history LKC ok let's check the [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► box its tendency I don't need weed on [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► the website that lists yeah alternate [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► history civil war-era alternate history [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► with historical but it's all historical [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► and they think they may mention New York [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► so it's okay for me that reminds me I [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► mean yeah at some point in the future [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► episode i would love if anybody else has [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► read Michael ship on the Yiddish police [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► oh yeah that's another great but that we [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► are really interesting that we seem [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► worth talking about a we're going to put [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► another list that everything is my it's [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► science fiction inside ristic science [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► fiction subcategory it's all history so [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► it has to be it is all tests yes that's [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► a fascinating fascinating book [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► don't throw that up it really isn't and [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► Scott you read that too i have read that [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► alright so weak that one is like being [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► that we should have done that today [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► because we have a moment we've all had [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► that one [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► let's go back and our little yeah we [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► just record another day i'm hoping that [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► this podcast will have more episodes and [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► we'll be able once a month or so to talk [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► about about books so what should we read [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► next other than boneshakers anything you [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► guys want to throw out there that we are [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► ordered or the listener should should [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► handle i will throw out my go-to [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► recommendation which i've been [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► recommending to a lot of people in the [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► world by the car away [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► indeed record dateline what no what no [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► we're now it's a book called the gone [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► away world by Nick harkway who's a [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► british writer who I actually had a [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► couple exchanged with on Twitter he's a [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► very nice guy he's also the son of john [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► the car a so if you like your new [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► thrillers he's he's got a little bit of [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► that going to but it's a [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► post-apocalyptic novel that's very I [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► don't know how to describe it other than [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► to say that it's unique I mean what [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► other book the heavy run into that has [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► like ninjas and mimes and it's a [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► post-apocalyptic world it'sit's kind of [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► comedic at times zeppelins there's a [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► there's a massive sort of driving [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► monstrosity machine but i don't think [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► there's necessarily exist because a ways [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► x it's not [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► anyways arm it's it's one of those books [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► that is it is is hard to put down once [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► you sort of start to get into it and it [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► really it's just it's unlike so much [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► other stuff that i have that i have read [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► and it was I think I read it last year [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► and it was one of my favorite books of [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► last year and I think it's how comes [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► highly recommended i don't think i think [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► it's it's flown on under a lot of radars [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► but i would i would definitely recommend [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► I'm not slide is your grade are at my [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► library will have a copy for me waiting [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► for a World so what should we read next [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► got RR is everyone here fans of jasper [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► fforde yes I don't know who that is [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► oh well what this podcast is over yeah [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► i'm out of not just for Ford row in that [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► case yes oh just performed here she is [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► great for yet for that my rights for [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► that author it is a non character who [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► was a man he he's probably most famous [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► for his Thursday Next books in which the [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► main character thursday next is a [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► detective that has to maintain the [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► plotlines of books so they jump into [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► books and make sure everything's alright [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► as a literary did a literary detectors [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► f1's there are well the book i am [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► recommending is his latest shades of [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► grey which includes no Zeppelin sadly [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► but on it is a good book and it but the [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► only downside is it is the first book in [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► the trilogy which I did not realize [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► until I finished it so i wasn't quite as [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► you turned out he not so finished [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► yeah likes like Scott I read it and it [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► ends on a bit of a cliffhanger but it [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► was good [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► alright is good that's good I i have [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► never heard of of that person and i will [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► look that up that's great so it's set in [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► the world that is kinda for devoid of [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► color and people are ranked by what [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► colors they can perceive and there's a [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► company that supplies artificial color [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► so check that wow when what what should [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► we read next [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► this is gets little off track but I've [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► been reading fables comic book series [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► but its Kiki and sort of science fiction [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► and fantasy I guess we may have to [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► invite you into the comic book club [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► segment of this popular which which we [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► also are doing [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► I can't tell whether like variables or [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► its stupid it there but there are [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► moments of real brilliance and sort of [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► unique thing [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► this in some marvelous art it but the [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► storyline is you know you watched like [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► ugh like the Simpsons at one point was [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► fantastic and they could have an ABC and [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► D stories going on at the same time [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► without losing track of them and fables [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► kind of all a story and sometimes the a [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► story is sort of boring [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► alright and that's what we should read [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► next you're not really text did that [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► ringing endorsement [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► here's the thing is like you want to [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► punish us that it's three the superhero [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► what we do to you go Angie this and [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► decide yourself it's been collected into [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► giant volumes like all graphic novel [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► comic books are these days so I actually [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► want to breeding most of it i've read [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► some current issues but I've read most [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► of it through giant library issued [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► library balance back copies and sort of [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► fascinating it's an inch it's [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► interesting idea that what if all the [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► tables have been told are actually real [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► places in an alternate universe there [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► are don't recall Zeppelin's but there [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► are dragon there's no Zeppelin's but [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► dragons that's good that's all that's [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► like nature's trick nature Zeppelin [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► because I dragon it's got the hot air [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► and fly nature's nature's nature's i'm [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► going to say if you haven't read this [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► yet it's been out for a few years now [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► the sequel actually just came out [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► oryx and crake by margaret atwood 0 [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► which is a post-apocalyptic Margaret [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► Atwood who is who [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► it's actually a part of it is kind of [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► during apocalyptic pre and-and-and [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► during apocalypse [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► it's actually two parallel stories with [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► one character in common and it's one of [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► them is post-apocalypse and one is the [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► events that lead up to the apocalypse [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► and the last chapters are take place in [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► the same location at the moment where [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► the apocalypse is happening and at the [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► kind of climax of the book after the [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► apocalypse is is over and done with [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► which is it's really well done kind of a [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► and B story where you're flashing [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► backward and forward with this one [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► character really imaginative and the [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► world that sort of comes out of the [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► apocalypse is is well created as well [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► and now there's a sequel to it or let me [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► ask is the is the apocalypse caused by [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► Zeppelin's there are sadly no Zeppelin's [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► either before or after the apocalypse [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► although i think after they love the [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► Zeppelin that 1x no Zeppelin's operates [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► out that I didn't know it was what [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► should we read next with the Zeppelin's [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► I could have come up with something [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► boneshaker Boneshaker back to Boneshaker [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► again there are Zeppelin's in there and [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► all history and I think that's gonna [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► have to be one of the things on your [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► reading list comes true could hold [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► seattle's zombie Zeppelin it's a quick [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► read to its not it is not heavy stuff [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► it's not happening at my library [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► requested it shoots through the progress [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► bar on your ebook reader it's true king [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► it's gone it's only like now 200 [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► kilobytes [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► depressing than downloading a book [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► especially if you've written a novel as [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► some of us have to to download it and [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► see how quickly download because there's [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► nothing to this text files just like zip [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► and it's there that it's great if you're [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► a reader it's like overlook the books [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► already downloaded if you're right it's [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► like really all that work I put into it [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► and it takes two seconds to download it [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► so sometimes i buy them and just delete [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► them because it takes so little time you [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► that just it pains me right in my right [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► my chest I print them out and then some [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► of them taken from different from atop [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► my housing causing the apart from atop [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► my Zeppelin and then I throw them off [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► and they they flooded the ground while [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► on fire police fire a delight to pull [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► fireworks display all the burning books [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► is generally not it's from the plots [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► let's not even books burn themselves it [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► doesn't count [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► that's right out of your growth [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► self-immolating and I on that note I [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► think that we can call call this a a [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► success we we mentioned many books prove [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► that we aren't illiterate and we've got [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► a big to-do list involving Zeppelin's [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► for the future proof that were not [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► illiterate okay i'll mail you something [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► to read out loud next time to prove [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► you're not a little if you have a kid if [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► you have a kindle you can be illiterate [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► you can read to you can read to you [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► that's true in a nice soothing robotic [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► voice lower back where we started and it [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► is monotonous well thank you to glen and [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► to Dan and two Scott and Jason and we [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► are the the geeky book club participants [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► for today and to you listeners out there [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► whoever you might be [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► thank you for listening [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► for more information about the pivot the [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► incomparable [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]