The Incomparable

1: We`ll Always Have Zeppelins


00:00:00   the uncomfortable part cup number 1 i'll [TS]

00:00:06   go vegan and welcome to the incomparable [TS]

00:00:10   podcast this is jason Snell i am your [TS]

00:00:12   host what will the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:15   be well it's a good question i'm not [TS]

00:00:17   sure we know the actual answer to that [TS]

00:00:19   question [TS]

00:00:20   we're hoping you'll let us know here's [TS]

00:00:22   the idea the idea is to get a bunch of [TS]

00:00:23   people I know together who are will [TS]

00:00:26   admit a little bit on the geeky side and [TS]

00:00:28   talk about things that you would [TS]

00:00:30   probably call geek culture sci-fi comic [TS]

00:00:34   books fantasy maybe a little bit across [TS]

00:00:37   genres so I think the way this is going [TS]

00:00:39   to work is every week we're going to [TS]

00:00:41   have a new genre we're going to start [TS]

00:00:42   this week with books sci-fi novels in [TS]

00:00:46   particular next week move on to comic [TS]

00:00:48   books and then in forthcoming weeks [TS]

00:00:50   we'll throw in movies and TV and who [TS]

00:00:52   knows what else maybe we'll do a special [TS]

00:00:54   music edition and talk about Kiki music [TS]

00:00:57   or something I don't know [TS]

00:00:59   anyway that's the premise I've gathered [TS]

00:01:01   several of my friends in the technology [TS]

00:01:04   business actually but where else to find [TS]

00:01:06   people and today we're going to get [TS]

00:01:09   started with a discussion of sci-fi [TS]

00:01:12   novels [TS]

00:01:13   joining me is Scott McNulty hello Scott [TS]

00:01:17   hello Jason it's good to have you here [TS]

00:01:19   you're very well-read gentlemen I i [TS]

00:01:21   dunno how to read [TS]

00:01:23   that's good that's what well-read means [TS]

00:01:25   is he you read well Dan more'n as well [TS]

00:01:28   from far away on the in the eastern part [TS]

00:01:30   of the United States hello Dan [TS]

00:01:31   hello from far away ru well-read i'm [TS]

00:01:36   told that I've been read like a book [TS]

00:01:37   that is that what that means [TS]

00:01:40   well read then yes now that is a second [TS]

00:01:42   definition of what it means and from the [TS]

00:01:44   the Great Northwest Glenn Fleischman [TS]

00:01:47   joins whole England right from the echo [TS]

00:01:51   travel SF Seattle yes where the Sun has [TS]

00:01:53   finally come out now well had didn't [TS]

00:01:55   happen inside let's go today and when ru [TS]

00:01:59   well-read I am obsessively well-read [TS]

00:02:01   alright or excessively excessively you [TS]

00:02:04   know you're over red perhaps most [TS]

00:02:06   perfect i read i read way too much go [TS]

00:02:09   ahead and that's true there's so much [TS]

00:02:10   going out there to read i'm writing an [TS]

00:02:12   article as we speak [TS]

00:02:13   well that explains everything I believe [TS]

00:02:15   we all read the syfy do you read mostly [TS]

00:02:19   a sci-fi or do you mix in other stuff [TS]

00:02:22   with it i find myself reading a lot of [TS]

00:02:23   nonfiction lately alongside like sci-fi [TS]

00:02:26   I haven't found it's funny it's like [TS]

00:02:28   fiction is sort of too much for me at [TS]

00:02:31   the moment but science fiction i can [TS]

00:02:33   read that distance a little further or [TS]

00:02:35   you know interesting nonfiction that [TS]

00:02:36   it's engrossing but it doesn't get you [TS]

00:02:38   as emotionally tied up [TS]

00:02:40   what about you damn i'm kind of [TS]

00:02:42   omnivorous but i would say it's largely [TS]

00:02:44   focused on the science fiction and [TS]

00:02:45   fantasy i read a lot of mystery to know [TS]

00:02:48   as much as like my mother who is like an [TS]

00:02:49   exclusively like mystery reader but I [TS]

00:02:52   read these around mystery and then you [TS]

00:02:54   know if somebody else recommends a good [TS]

00:02:55   book to me i will almost certainly pick [TS]

00:02:57   it up but mostly sci-fi/fantasy whereby [TS]

00:03:00   you got i read a lot of sci-fi fantasy i [TS]

00:03:02   also read mysteries that are set in [TS]

00:03:05   historical periods because I like to [TS]

00:03:08   read very niche books is only three [TS]

00:03:12   people will read them i will be one [TS]

00:03:14   about that that's a great John because [TS]

00:03:15   you can actually read every single book [TS]

00:03:17   is published in it it's true all five of [TS]

00:03:19   them exactly so you know I irie I've [TS]

00:03:22   been reading a lot of books that involve [TS]

00:03:24   detectives in eighteen hundreds New York [TS]

00:03:27   it's a good that's a good specific very [TS]

00:03:30   you know linkedin time in place i'm [TS]

00:03:33   gonna start writing books like that [TS]

00:03:34   because i don't have an audience now at [TS]

00:03:36   least one there are four people who [TS]

00:03:37   would be very happy to expect as long as [TS]

00:03:39   I can read on my Kindle robotic but it's [TS]

00:03:42   a little known fact that Scott McNulty [TS]

00:03:43   has the largest collection of electronic [TS]

00:03:45   book readers in the world it's true and [TS]

00:03:48   yet when we asked him if he had read the [TS]

00:03:50   city in the city which is one of the [TS]

00:03:51   books i want to talk about his comment [TS]

00:03:53   was that he bought in hardcover [TS]

00:03:55   oh and hasn't read it Scott you've got [TS]

00:03:57   like 15 or creators why do you buy [TS]

00:04:00   something in hardcover or is that are [TS]

00:04:02   you just an equal-opportunity formatting [TS]

00:04:04   guy i I just I just like to spend money [TS]

00:04:07   so if I see something I will buy it [TS]

00:04:09   immediately [TS]

00:04:10   guys he's being a little disingenuous as [TS]

00:04:12   i know for a fact that he's got a table [TS]

00:04:14   that's a bit wobbly in his kitchen and [TS]

00:04:17   the kindle just isn't picking off of [TS]

00:04:19   them was too thick and you know scott [TS]

00:04:22   pilgrim was too thin but the city the [TS]

00:04:24   city was just right just right [TS]

00:04:26   exactly have you guys all started to [TS]

00:04:29   read stuff I know Scott has huh [TS]

00:04:31   and i have on eBook readers vs vs paper [TS]

00:04:35   you know I i did i read a few things on [TS]

00:04:38   my iPad but I got to be honest for me it [TS]

00:04:40   comes out of me being cheap because i [TS]

00:04:42   read so many books that like if I have [TS]

00:04:44   to buy everything in ebook format it [TS]

00:04:47   quickly becomes a very expensive hobby [TS]

00:04:50   and as this also the son of to [TS]

00:04:53   librarians I am I am mandated that I [TS]

00:04:57   must go to the library so i actually get [TS]

00:04:59   most of my stuff in the library still [TS]

00:05:01   I'm married to a librarian and I still [TS]

00:05:03   buy ebooks what about You Glenn this is [TS]

00:05:05   the same problem i had i was spending an [TS]

00:05:06   enormous amount of money on books a few [TS]

00:05:08   years ago and I realized with two [TS]

00:05:09   children and the same amount of space in [TS]

00:05:11   the house that one thing had to go and i [TS]

00:05:13   decided to keep the children and stop [TS]

00:05:15   buying books and get rid of the book so [TS]

00:05:16   I you know ebooks are great but I'm [TS]

00:05:17   doing library lot and you know I'd am [TS]

00:05:20   buying ebooks when I think the value is [TS]

00:05:21   there when I think I'll read something [TS]

00:05:22   again I got the city in the city for [TS]

00:05:25   instance i got that the library love to [TS]

00:05:27   pieces figured i'm going to read that at [TS]

00:05:29   least one more time which i have since [TS]

00:05:30   then and i bought a used copy of it in [TS]

00:05:32   paperback figuring that was the best [TS]

00:05:34   format for that particular you know [TS]

00:05:36   books enjoyment [TS]

00:05:38   so the city in the city by and I'm going [TS]

00:05:40   to get this name wrong its it's China [TS]

00:05:41   Mieville is that right i think the evil [TS]

00:05:44   i think it might be a naval yeah that [TS]

00:05:46   was me evil maybe I'll take me evil [TS]

00:05:48   example yes it's it's ish you know just [TS]

00:05:51   looks like that first name spelled china [TS]

00:05:53   right and it's a gentleman [TS]

00:05:55   it's an it's a my wife was like no [TS]

00:05:56   that's totally a girl I'm like it's [TS]

00:05:58   really not and I showed her picture into [TS]

00:05:59   no it's not if he's like he looks like [TS]

00:06:01   it's not really bald you know like [TS]

00:06:03   mr.clean dress kind of English and he's [TS]

00:06:05   an Englishman to so you know that he [TS]

00:06:06   bawled Englishman he could tell with my [TS]

00:06:08   China I mean clearly clearly he's gotten [TS]

00:06:11   top anyway sitting the city nominated [TS]

00:06:13   for Hugo word for you know best sci-fi [TS]

00:06:16   novel of the year and three of us have [TS]

00:06:19   read it so Scott you might have to be [TS]

00:06:20   the referee on this one but it's a [TS]

00:06:24   fascinating book and I know that I Glenn [TS]

00:06:26   actually prime the pump for me a little [TS]

00:06:27   bit with this one because he declared [TS]

00:06:29   before i had started it that he wasn't [TS]

00:06:32   sure it was sci-fi or not but that it [TS]

00:06:34   was great and so I went in reading it [TS]

00:06:36   and I read the whole thing sort of [TS]

00:06:38   trying to detect [TS]

00:06:39   there I thought that it was truly [TS]

00:06:41   science fictional or whether it was all [TS]

00:06:44   just in my head and and then it could [TS]

00:06:45   all be explained kind of normally so I [TS]

00:06:47   think the premise here is that there are [TS]

00:06:49   these two cities that are actually this [TS]

00:06:51   sir sorry Scott that are actually the [TS]

00:06:53   same city but they're consensually they [TS]

00:06:55   don't see each other they try not to see [TS]

00:06:57   each other so they're kind of overlaid [TS]

00:06:59   in terms of geography but for political [TS]

00:07:01   reasons they are two separate cities [TS]

00:07:03   with two separate geographies even [TS]

00:07:05   though they are overlaid said or did I [TS]

00:07:08   know it's not like that at all Jason [TS]

00:07:09   that's not what the book is only [TS]

00:07:10   visiting operate they occupy two [TS]

00:07:13   slightly different vibrating planes in [TS]

00:07:15   space yeah well it's i5n isn't it crowd [TS]

00:07:17   really miss read that book then or is [TS]

00:07:19   why would i would argue it's a it's a [TS]

00:07:22   mystery in some ways to what is it is a [TS]

00:07:24   police you know it's my I so it's I've [TS]

00:07:26   cedral to our central yes set in a [TS]

00:07:29   setting a very interesting environment [TS]

00:07:30   if it were only set in 1802 new york [TS]

00:07:33   city i totally would have read it [TS]

00:07:34   already York City and New Jersey occupy [TS]

00:07:38   the same point in space in that book [TS]

00:07:40   well I mean I don't know the experience [TS]

00:07:41   I had when reading this was and I read [TS]

00:07:43   it awhile back so i might be a little [TS]

00:07:45   fuzzy but I think I very vividly [TS]

00:07:47   remember the first few pages where [TS]

00:07:49   you're trying to figure out exactly [TS]

00:07:52   what's going on in terms of this work [TS]

00:07:56   because you're just kind of thrown into [TS]

00:07:57   it right it doesn't actually I yeah [TS]

00:07:59   you're right yeah and you you have to [TS]

00:08:00   start putting it together and seeing [TS]

00:08:02   like you you're so we're seeing it [TS]

00:08:03   through the the eyes of the protagonist [TS]

00:08:07   who is a police inspector and he's so [TS]

00:08:11   accustomed to this this consensual [TS]

00:08:14   agreement that we don't see the people [TS]

00:08:17   from the other city that as someone who [TS]

00:08:20   is like you know we're basically [TS]

00:08:21   tourists in this in this strange realm [TS]

00:08:25   and so we're kind of challenge to figure [TS]

00:08:28   out what's going on from the perspective [TS]

00:08:30   of someone who is always lived there and [TS]

00:08:32   thus is perfectly in tune with this [TS]

00:08:34   whole idea that will make the [TS]

00:08:36   provocative statement that one of that [TS]

00:08:38   it that the book rewires your brain as [TS]

00:08:39   you read it uh-huh and what I am to [TS]

00:08:42   follow up i think the best science [TS]

00:08:44   fiction the best science fiction for me [TS]

00:08:46   that I like our books that try to rewire [TS]

00:08:49   your brain while you read [TS]

00:08:50   NM is one of those yes I'm extend this [TS]

00:08:53   certainly is that like as i'm reading [TS]

00:08:54   the book and i'm getting the perspective [TS]

00:08:56   from you I think skilled or something [TS]

00:08:58   like that you feel right yeah funeral [TS]

00:09:00   and i'm getting his perspective in as I [TS]

00:09:03   trying to see through his eyes [TS]

00:09:05   my head is kind of doing this why can't [TS]

00:09:07   really think that way and like okay I've [TS]

00:09:09   almost got it and you know they don't [TS]

00:09:10   think wait a minute can't be quite that [TS]

00:09:12   way and then evil brings up something [TS]

00:09:14   that's you have an objection well dogs [TS]

00:09:17   can't see this pets can't see this and [TS]

00:09:19   in passing he'll explain how that works [TS]

00:09:21   or wolves or children or children [TS]

00:09:24   violence all the time then explains how [TS]

00:09:26   there's exceptions and you're like well [TS]

00:09:27   who would enforce such a relationship [TS]

00:09:29   and then oh well there's another party [TS]

00:09:32   that comes out so he keeps promise [TS]

00:09:33   anticipates as your brain is as [TS]

00:09:35   rewriting its own ability to perceive [TS]

00:09:37   this world that's being invented around [TS]

00:09:39   you you know he just keeps throwing in [TS]

00:09:41   the explanation you almost the time you [TS]

00:09:43   need it for commits that kind of it's [TS]

00:09:44   kind of like a literary equivalent of [TS]

00:09:46   like an Escher painting right that's [TS]

00:09:49   where you're like you're staring at it [TS]

00:09:50   and it looks like one thing and then as [TS]

00:09:53   your brain sort of adapt to the strange [TS]

00:09:56   geometry that's going on there [TS]

00:09:58   it looks like it starts to look like [TS]

00:09:59   something else you start to get an idea [TS]

00:10:01   like oh this isn't all that's going on [TS]

00:10:02   here okay yeah that staircase connects [TS]

00:10:04   there but it also is like upstairs and [TS]

00:10:06   downstairs of all time when i read it a [TS]

00:10:08   second time the thing was funny as I [TS]

00:10:10   thought okay well the second time this [TS]

00:10:11   is like whenever you read a murder [TS]

00:10:12   mystery ok I know who did it so I know [TS]

00:10:14   that conceit here I'll read it a second [TS]

00:10:16   time and it will snap into a clear [TS]

00:10:18   relief and it did not it is still in [TS]

00:10:21   fact it's even worse because I could see [TS]

00:10:23   all the stuff that he hid that you only [TS]

00:10:25   can pick up on subsequent readings was [TS]

00:10:26   even more traces of ambiguity it's like [TS]

00:10:28   Oh My heavens it's so unlike NM which [TS]

00:10:32   sets you down in a world that is clearly [TS]

00:10:34   not our own and with a lot of terms that [TS]

00:10:37   you have to learn with the city in the [TS]

00:10:38   city it's plausibly our world it's a [TS]

00:10:41   country you don't really recognize in [TS]

00:10:43   Eastern Europe and you know you don't [TS]

00:10:44   really know but then he starts dropping [TS]

00:10:46   the verbs on you that people are [TS]

00:10:48   unseeing things and you're like what is [TS]

00:10:51   that mean and his login tactical yes [TS]

00:10:53   catching alter all these things yeah [TS]

00:10:56   cross topically yeah yeah and so and so [TS]

00:10:59   you end up trying to decrypt all of this [TS]

00:11:01   and unpacking you're right it is like [TS]

00:11:03   the [TS]

00:11:03   I think any any good novel it's like the [TS]

00:11:06   novelist is trying to hack into your [TS]

00:11:07   brain and novel is a machine that is [TS]

00:11:10   designed to work on your brain and work [TS]

00:11:12   on how your brain processes the [TS]

00:11:13   information that's given and this does [TS]

00:11:15   that in a really interesting way and [TS]

00:11:17   when you get to the point awful where [TS]

00:11:18   you get introduced to the concept of the [TS]

00:11:20   breach and what the breaches which is [TS]

00:11:22   essentially the police who are making [TS]

00:11:24   sure that you don't violate this [TS]

00:11:26   consensual hallucination about the two [TS]

00:11:29   cities being separate when they're not [TS]

00:11:31   for me that was when the thing really [TS]

00:11:33   started to ramp up is that the throwing [TS]

00:11:35   in that third actor which is the [TS]

00:11:37   patroller of the of the borders and for [TS]

00:11:40   me that's the central question with the [TS]

00:11:41   city and the city about if it's science [TS]

00:11:43   fictional or not is what is the breach [TS]

00:11:45   and on twitter we mentioned this and I [TS]

00:11:47   had somebody say oh no its total breach [TS]

00:11:49   is totally explainable as just the [TS]

00:11:51   conjunction of the two cities and it's [TS]

00:11:53   not science fiction at all and yet when [TS]

00:11:55   you read the description and maybe Glenn [TS]

00:11:57   since you reread it when you read the [TS]

00:11:58   description of the breach and how great [TS]

00:12:00   the breach appears and what they do and [TS]

00:12:02   how they seem to know what's going on [TS]

00:12:04   your led to believe that it's this disc [TS]

00:12:06   almost supernatural kind of force and [TS]

00:12:08   that's great up to the point where he's [TS]

00:12:10   led into the offices of the bringing [TS]

00:12:11   your like drab not interesting in any [TS]

00:12:14   sort of way [TS]

00:12:15   bureaucratic offices they're not magical [TS]

00:12:17   at all the kind of clunky and write like [TS]

00:12:20   that famous arthur c clarke you know any [TS]

00:12:22   sufficiently advanced technology is [TS]

00:12:24   indistinguishable from magic [TS]

00:12:25   they seem magical i think from the [TS]

00:12:28   perspective of the people in the city [TS]

00:12:29   and the other city because they have [TS]

00:12:33   these powers or these technology that is [TS]

00:12:35   so far advanced that it's not really [TS]

00:12:37   understood but I think that you could I [TS]

00:12:38   mean that's how I felt about anyways I [TS]

00:12:40   really felt like these are guys who are [TS]

00:12:42   not necessarily magical but at the same [TS]

00:12:44   time they are in possession of some sort [TS]

00:12:46   of technology that lends them a magical [TS]

00:12:48   or a supernatural air [TS]

00:12:50   yeah there's a bit of this kind of you [TS]

00:12:52   know its reference another Stephenson [TS]

00:12:53   book of snow crash one could argue that [TS]

00:12:56   it's better on the border of being a [TS]

00:12:58   neurological or neural programmers that [TS]

00:13:01   the breach operates because the people [TS]

00:13:03   who act as the breach are able to [TS]

00:13:06   manipulate or understand how everyone [TS]

00:13:08   else has partition their minds and that [TS]

00:13:10   they can walk back and forth between [TS]

00:13:12   these two cities by change [TS]

00:13:14   changing their own perception this whole [TS]

00:13:16   there's all this subtle stuff in the [TS]

00:13:18   book about the way someone walks the [TS]

00:13:20   collars the the smells [TS]

00:13:22   there's this hilarious but in which two [TS]

00:13:24   are the police officer and his sergeants [TS]

00:13:27   been assigned to him he takes her to a [TS]

00:13:30   forgot the name of the other city it's [TS]

00:13:31   some is al coma a yo-yo ma yeah he'll [TS]

00:13:35   come he goes the in so he goes to little [TS]

00:13:37   ill coma in his own City which is like a [TS]

00:13:40   immigrant district from the other city [TS]

00:13:42   and his sergeant gets freaked out for a [TS]

00:13:44   second because she thinks she's not [TS]

00:13:46   supposed to see it but there are tells [TS]

00:13:47   in this immigrant area where the colors [TS]

00:13:50   aren't quite the same smells maybe the [TS]

00:13:52   same and you're thinking you know and as [TS]

00:13:54   I'm going through the same confusion [TS]

00:13:55   reading the book about wait a minute [TS]

00:13:57   this violates every rule that he told me [TS]

00:13:59   about but all know here's the exception [TS]

00:14:01   or when they go through a little bit [TS]

00:14:03   when you transition just when he's [TS]

00:14:04   gotten you comfortable with the first [TS]

00:14:06   city he takes you through to the second [TS]

00:14:08   one that you're that you're suddenly [TS]

00:14:10   going through this transition the [TS]

00:14:12   officer has to go and meet with a [TS]

00:14:13   counterpart in the other city and [TS]

00:14:15   suddenly he has to have to go through [TS]

00:14:17   classes to learn to unsee and see the [TS]

00:14:19   right things and then goes through this [TS]

00:14:21   transition space that's the same on both [TS]

00:14:23   sides and suddenly he's emerges in his [TS]

00:14:25   own city in the other city you basically [TS]

00:14:28   go into this building that's the [TS]

00:14:29   agreed-upon border point and then you [TS]

00:14:31   emerge on the other side of the building [TS]

00:14:32   but you're still in the same city of it [TS]

00:14:35   yeah it's the which is my think that's [TS]

00:14:36   really i agree with you guys that were [TS]

00:14:38   you like your mind really starts racing [TS]

00:14:40   to catch up right like oh my god what is [TS]

00:14:43   going on how does he [TS]

00:14:45   how do you go from seeing you know [TS]

00:14:46   seeing a nun seeing these things that [TS]

00:14:48   you have been trained to for all these [TS]

00:14:50   years to totally inverting that and I [TS]

00:14:54   think you know he does a great job of [TS]

00:14:56   putting us in the shoes then of the [TS]

00:14:58   person who feels like sort of as out of [TS]

00:15:00   place as we felt coming into the book [TS]

00:15:03   what's your verdict is there anything [TS]

00:15:04   that we would call sort of traditional [TS]

00:15:05   science fictional here or is there is [TS]

00:15:07   the kind of magic of the city in the [TS]

00:15:09   city just the concept is is such a [TS]

00:15:11   mind-blower but it's not requiring [TS]

00:15:13   anything that we don't have in our [TS]

00:15:15   regular lives today I think it's [TS]

00:15:17   fascinating lee in this hazy border i [TS]

00:15:19   think he does everything in his power it [TS]

00:15:21   without working hard is the most amazing [TS]

00:15:24   thing I have to say is that the book is [TS]

00:15:25   really a joy to read you know [TS]

00:15:27   and in some ways like it's difficult or [TS]

00:15:28   stressful to read but it's more like he [TS]

00:15:30   presents this great story and he just [TS]

00:15:32   keeps picking up the edge of the way in [TS]

00:15:35   which you think about science fiction or [TS]

00:15:37   fantasy and he's written previous things [TS]

00:15:39   like pretty toes street station is a [TS]

00:15:41   fascinating grimy book i felt like i had [TS]

00:15:43   a shower 50 times were in that book [TS]

00:15:45   everything is decaying and grimy but [TS]

00:15:47   perdido Street Station clearly is it [TS]

00:15:49   somewhere alien right yeah really it's [TS]

00:15:51   science fiction fantasy that the science [TS]

00:15:53   picture that the technology has become [TS]

00:15:55   so advanced it's magic or there is magic [TS]

00:15:58   or whatever there's clearly something [TS]

00:15:59   else going on [TS]

00:16:00   this stops you know many many degrees [TS]

00:16:02   sort of that but I you know I couldn't [TS]

00:16:03   tell you when I reread it someone on [TS]

00:16:05   Twitter so to be like well it's clearly [TS]

00:16:07   blah blah and I'm like okay you're an [TS]

00:16:09   engineer first and second and another [TS]

00:16:11   clear about it like you have to make a [TS]

00:16:13   decision you can make a decision you [TS]

00:16:14   start reading the book this is all in [TS]

00:16:16   people's heads mrs. a political metaphor [TS]

00:16:17   but there are points in the book we're [TS]

00:16:19   like wait a minute [TS]

00:16:20   the breach officer or breach whatever [TS]

00:16:22   maybe not under officers the breach [TS]

00:16:23   person has this device that doesn't make [TS]

00:16:28   any sense but is it just a gun and it [TS]

00:16:30   looks different or the breach can break [TS]

00:16:32   into any web site anywhere in the world [TS]

00:16:34   but are they just hackers or do they [TS]

00:16:36   have super advanced magical sci-fi [TS]

00:16:38   technology it's just you never cross the [TS]

00:16:41   book barrier he doesn't give it away at [TS]

00:16:43   the NSA all and by the way it's all [TS]

00:16:45   sides yes they're aliens low or or hey [TS]

00:16:48   was poorly welcome to the breach [TS]

00:16:50   here's your magical laser that doesn't [TS]

00:16:53   happen [TS]

00:16:54   I like what I've read every several of [TS]

00:16:55   his other books including prettiest each [TS]

00:16:57   station and the to follow ons to that [TS]

00:16:59   and I would just say from up from a [TS]

00:17:01   qualitative standpoint I mean like Glenn [TS]

00:17:03   says it's a very different type of book [TS]

00:17:05   i would argue that is my favorite of all [TS]

00:17:07   of his books that I think he does the [TS]

00:17:09   most fully realized job of creating a [TS]

00:17:12   setting which is fascinating because he [TS]

00:17:14   spent so much time detailing is totally [TS]

00:17:16   alien settings in pretty do Street [TS]

00:17:18   Station and the other books in those [TS]

00:17:19   worlds and yet somehow those never came [TS]

00:17:21   to life to me is so much as the city in [TS]

00:17:24   the city as as alien and strange as it [TS]

00:17:26   is with these two cities overlying each [TS]

00:17:28   other [TS]

00:17:29   I thought it was fantastic and it really [TS]

00:17:31   I I don't know that I would put a label [TS]

00:17:33   on it by saying that it's science [TS]

00:17:34   fiction if I mean if you know very [TS]

00:17:36   broadly speaking you could say it's [TS]

00:17:37   fantasy or something like that [TS]

00:17:40   it's one of the best things i've read of [TS]

00:17:41   any genre do you want to find out by jon [TS]

00:17:44   renau not defined as one of the best [TS]

00:17:45   things I've read in years i just i'm [TS]

00:17:47   floored by and I can't wait to pick it [TS]

00:17:49   up and read it again [TS]

00:17:50   I liked it and I i might read it again [TS]

00:17:52   although I have to say I actually voted [TS]

00:17:54   at second of the six hugo award nominees [TS]

00:17:58   it was a close one but I placed it [TS]

00:18:00   second to the windup girl by paulo not [TS]

00:18:05   another hard-to-pronounce name [TS]

00:18:07   Paolo Bacigalupi i think his name is and [TS]

00:18:10   have any of you read the windup girl I [TS]

00:18:11   have red wine of course kotse first I [TS]

00:18:14   was the idea haha oh but before before [TS]

00:18:18   we talk about the windup girl i would [TS]

00:18:20   like to read a one-star review on amazon [TS]

00:18:23   for the city and the city i love this a [TS]

00:18:26   dramatic reading couldnt well if you're [TS]

00:18:29   feeling nostalgic for the good old days [TS]

00:18:30   of those happy cold war years and long [TS]

00:18:33   for a divided Berlin and you might take [TS]

00:18:35   heart on this novel otherwise steer [TS]

00:18:38   clear of this mess where the object is [TS]

00:18:40   to beat around the bush plot-wise for as [TS]

00:18:42   long as possible the cool kids might [TS]

00:18:44   like this writer haha but that's only [TS]

00:18:47   because they've been told he's cool to [TS]

00:18:48   like that is from David Keith known as [TS]

00:18:52   fur and tats are you mean I need I need [TS]

00:18:54   a stamp that's called engineer and to [TS]

00:18:56   stamp it on Twitter tweets and reviews [TS]

00:18:59   and when he called you a cool kid what [TS]

00:19:01   are you talking about i'm clearly if [TS]

00:19:03   we're the cool kids is clearly the [TS]

00:19:05   situation is totally out of whack you [TS]

00:19:06   had something is very wrong here [TS]

00:19:09   maybe he maybe he was writing for an [TS]

00:19:10   alternate view of the novel i want to [TS]

00:19:13   point out one other thing about the [TS]

00:19:14   novel it synthesis at its china has a [TS]

00:19:16   predilection for this so you know how [TS]

00:19:18   George Lucas's naming our is horrible [TS]

00:19:21   George Lucas's worst attribute is his [TS]

00:19:23   ability to assign horrible horrible name [TS]

00:19:25   you don't like Elyon sleazebag oh yes or [TS]

00:19:28   media clear radians and well i'll post [TS]

00:19:31   post like 1983 ourselves all right all [TS]

00:19:34   right hand solo great name Luke [TS]

00:19:36   Skywalker great everything else Wedge [TS]

00:19:37   Antilles [TS]

00:19:40   he's great now come on so that in mind [TS]

00:19:43   here [TS]

00:19:44   china has a media has a pitch perfect [TS]

00:19:46   way of creating these names even the [TS]

00:19:48   names that you read in the city in the [TS]

00:19:50   city or perdidos each station is other [TS]

00:19:52   books they make your brain slide around [TS]

00:19:54   like I've studied German some Eastern [TS]

00:19:55   European languages and he gets a name [TS]

00:19:57   that you like that sort of familiar but [TS]

00:19:59   not quite it's like dancing around my [TS]

00:20:01   neurons and it's perfect without [TS]

00:20:03   assigning a place or a thing to it [TS]

00:20:08   [Music] [TS]

00:20:10   white girl by paolo bacigalupi i think [TS]

00:20:15   scott this is a real kind of dystopian [TS]

00:20:19   it's settin in thailand in the [TS]

00:20:22   twenty-first late mid to late 21st [TS]

00:20:25   century 22nd century and sort of oil all [TS]

00:20:28   the oil is running out and thereby [TS]

00:20:30   everybody is like using elephants or or [TS]

00:20:32   like DNA reconstituted mammoths to drive [TS]

00:20:35   big sort of like wheels to charge up [TS]

00:20:37   springs to generate energy because [TS]

00:20:38   there's no energy left in there like [TS]

00:20:40   gene-altered people it's definitely a [TS]

00:20:44   dark dark dark book as it is very dark [TS]

00:20:48   there's there's a constant food shortage [TS]

00:20:50   due to genetic runaway genetic a-league [TS]

00:20:55   mutated viruses and plagues so they call [TS]

00:20:58   there are American companies seemingly [TS]

00:21:02   that stockpile genetically altered food [TS]

00:21:05   stuffs that they send to other countries [TS]

00:21:07   that cannot be grown so that people [TS]

00:21:10   can't grow their own food so that they [TS]

00:21:12   are dependent on these countries to [TS]

00:21:14   supply food the calorie companies [TS]

00:21:15   exactly in the calorie men from the [TS]

00:21:18   calorie companies and apparently was it [TS]

00:21:20   simply the netherlands was destroyed in [TS]

00:21:23   a conflict over their seed bank ya roar [TS]

00:21:26   Swift I think it's that I think that's [TS]

00:21:28   actually a certain sweden and norway [TS]

00:21:30   it's where there actually is a genetic [TS]

00:21:31   seed bank and then they destroyed it in [TS]

00:21:33   a war over the trying to get the seeds [TS]

00:21:36   out there is apparently a seed bank and [TS]

00:21:37   in Thailand that that the calorie man is [TS]

00:21:40   trying to get these posing as a [TS]

00:21:42   industrialist and there's Epsilon's and [TS]

00:21:45   i have to say that should be a checklist [TS]

00:21:47   for every sci-fi or fantasy novel is are [TS]

00:21:50   there Zeppelin's in a city setting [TS]

00:21:52   because right [TS]

00:21:53   zeppelins check all right i mean i'm [TS]

00:21:55   sold if there is Evelyn's and that's why [TS]

00:21:57   you that that's why I got your vote [TS]

00:21:59   right that's right what's the plan [TS]

00:22:00   that's what pushed it over the edge for [TS]

00:22:01   me is that there was your shit everytime [TS]

00:22:03   air quieres ship plot points yes it's [TS]

00:22:06   true and I was a really good book i also [TS]

00:22:08   read he wrote a young adult book called [TS]

00:22:11   shipbreakers set in the same universe [TS]

00:22:13   which I actually thought was better [TS]

00:22:15   haha but that's just because i have a [TS]

00:22:18   low reading comprehension you're not one [TS]

00:22:21   of the cool kids [TS]

00:22:21   I'm not gonna cook it so I was like [TS]

00:22:23   whatever windup girl is it is dark it is [TS]

00:22:26   its political it's it's a it's an [TS]

00:22:30   ecological political message about the [TS]

00:22:32   you he was the logical logically what [TS]

00:22:35   will happen if there is a global warming [TS]

00:22:39   you know washes away I mean that the the [TS]

00:22:41   city in in white girl is holding on by a [TS]

00:22:45   thread because it's got bikes everywhere [TS]

00:22:46   and when they give out it's going to [TS]

00:22:48   flood and so there's that and there's [TS]

00:22:50   this whole idea of genetically modified [TS]

00:22:51   food and so there's all this all this [TS]

00:22:54   kind of politics and extrapolation which [TS]

00:22:56   I love in sci-fi and quite frankly i [TS]

00:22:59   don't actually even care about the [TS]

00:23:00   politics i love the fact that it's an [TS]

00:23:02   extrapolation of like well if if we take [TS]

00:23:04   this to be true what might that mean and [TS]

00:23:06   that's what I got out of the lineup girl [TS]

00:23:08   was this really interesting kind of [TS]

00:23:10   mishmash of all these sort of trends [TS]

00:23:12   that you could you can see today and [TS]

00:23:14   where did they go [TS]

00:23:15   and if they go to a really dark place in [TS]

00:23:17   the in this case and it doesn't have to [TS]

00:23:19   be that way but that's the direction he [TS]

00:23:20   chose to go in and you know none of the [TS]

00:23:23   characters you can really bank on 44 to [TS]

00:23:25   survive the book which i think i like [TS]

00:23:27   and in fact you think you've got kind of [TS]

00:23:29   a rotation of viewpoint characters going [TS]

00:23:31   in and all of a sudden I'm one of them [TS]

00:23:32   isn't there anymore and there's a [TS]

00:23:33   replacement viewpoint caring like else [TS]

00:23:35   okay [TS]

00:23:36   holy endeavor that's fascinating ever [TS]

00:23:38   heard of that as a mechanism where like [TS]

00:23:39   you have a new person that the new point [TS]

00:23:42   of view [TS]

00:23:43   yeah well give you so much without [TS]

00:23:44   giving too much away I it's enjoyable [TS]

00:23:46   that you've got one of these viewpoint [TS]

00:23:47   characters who who like get pushed off a [TS]

00:23:50   building and and his deputy is now the [TS]

00:23:53   Cuban character because he's gone and [TS]

00:23:55   although his ghost his ghost speaks to [TS]

00:23:57   her whether she's real or imagined that [TS]

00:23:59   we don't know it's a real ghost or not [TS]

00:24:01   certain and as i was reading that seems [TS]

00:24:03   like he's not gonna kill this character [TS]

00:24:05   and he can possibly kill the sketch yeah [TS]

00:24:07   i think this is a cyclic convention [TS]

00:24:09   thing to talk about too is that there [TS]

00:24:11   are novels know like a novel in which [TS]

00:24:12   the character is an adolescent at the [TS]

00:24:15   beginning and end is called juvenile [TS]

00:24:16   right isn't that like any genre is not [TS]

00:24:18   the case even if its adult novel to gym [TS]

00:24:21   it's a juvenile right so there's there's [TS]

00:24:23   this thing like this is all to all the [TS]

00:24:25   characters are most of them died at the [TS]

00:24:26   end of the novel or before the other [TS]

00:24:28   novel then there's a real pre-election [TS]

00:24:30   sci-fi to kill everybody i read a book [TS]

00:24:32   the day was so depressing I can't [TS]

00:24:34   remember the title i'll never read [TS]

00:24:36   anything by that i mean by that author [TS]

00:24:37   again because everybody dies like [TS]

00:24:39   literally everybody dies at the end I'm [TS]

00:24:41   like what in God's name is another it [TS]

00:24:44   could have been the windup girl action [TS]

00:24:45   you have been at all [TS]

00:24:47   not everybody not everybody dies in the [TS]

00:24:48   line of girls just you know we let me be [TS]

00:24:50   doing that though is george RR martin [TS]

00:24:52   because he's really quickly like still [TS]

00:24:54   off viewpoint characters like he gets [TS]

00:24:57   them into situations where it's like you [TS]

00:24:59   know if you've read any sort of you you [TS]

00:25:00   know familiar with any sort of drama [TS]

00:25:02   like all it's the impossible situation [TS]

00:25:04   how are they going to get out of this [TS]

00:25:05   and then they don't they yeah and you're [TS]

00:25:07   like oh haha [TS]

00:25:09   and so I saw someone asked him about [TS]

00:25:11   that one said I convention and he's like [TS]

00:25:13   yeah i like to keep people on their toes [TS]

00:25:15   yeah i just i just finished the third of [TS]

00:25:17   those of those song of ice and fire [TS]

00:25:19   books and in the middle of it to not [TS]

00:25:22   even at the end in the middle of it one [TS]

00:25:24   of these two of these characters that I [TS]

00:25:26   that I expected would survive certainly [TS]

00:25:29   one of them who had been a viewpoint [TS]

00:25:30   characters since almost the very [TS]

00:25:31   beginning and don't know they're both [TS]

00:25:33   dead in about four pages homeland just [TS]

00:25:35   dead and you like steak he likes to [TS]

00:25:37   killed while that said that said nothing [TS]

00:25:39   you know it's fantasy it's like you know [TS]

00:25:41   fantasy and scifi and comic books right [TS]

00:25:42   nothing's ever forever yes well I I [TS]

00:25:45   don't last and then you get to the end [TS]

00:25:46   of that book and you find that that's [TS]

00:25:47   true but at the same time I think you [TS]

00:25:50   know there is something to be said for [TS]

00:25:52   that you know reality aspect of getting [TS]

00:25:55   characters into situations where it's [TS]

00:25:58   not like a ridiculous escapade where [TS]

00:26:01   they escaped but in fact you know there [TS]

00:26:02   are casualties right i mean i guess [TS]

00:26:04   that's a certain type of writing and [TS]

00:26:06   you've got to be sort of sign up for [TS]

00:26:07   that when you go into it but I mean I [TS]

00:26:10   think it's a I sort of relish that not [TS]

00:26:12   because i like the killing characters [TS]

00:26:14   off but like because it gives you real [TS]

00:26:15   fear right for all the rest of the [TS]

00:26:17   characters you know [TS]

00:26:18   the characters you really come to care [TS]

00:26:19   about because you're like oh my god you [TS]

00:26:20   know they could conceivably die [TS]

00:26:23   you know it makes you very invested in [TS]

00:26:25   in the whole storyline is going on there [TS]

00:26:27   and i think that there's something to be [TS]

00:26:28   said for that [TS]

00:26:36   Glenn one another another novel that you [TS]

00:26:39   mentioned that you read recently and [TS]

00:26:41   we're raving about is for the win by [TS]

00:26:43   cory doctorow yeah and I i would I was [TS]

00:26:46   interested in hearing what you thought [TS]

00:26:48   about that i read little brother and [TS]

00:26:50   while I admired the sort of technique [TS]

00:26:54   that he used and some of the plot points [TS]

00:26:56   i actually despise the book because I [TS]

00:26:58   thought it was such a just ridiculous [TS]

00:27:00   lecture that it was like a download of a [TS]

00:27:03   manifesto in novel form in it really got [TS]

00:27:06   on my bad side so it's for the win gonna [TS]

00:27:09   make me hate cory doctorow more or less [TS]

00:27:13   well I didn't read little brother [TS]

00:27:14   because i have a feeling it was a plum [TS]

00:27:16   akin novel form ya young adult novel [TS]

00:27:18   perform so that so that teenagers will [TS]

00:27:20   find out why how important it is to [TS]

00:27:22   compile your own I was entirely agree [TS]

00:27:26   with Jason but I mean that said hi [TS]

00:27:28   I mean I liked the book III mean it is [TS]

00:27:31   advantageous agreement of fun [TS]

00:27:33   yeah i mean i-i know you know that stuff [TS]

00:27:35   right because you know Corey's politics [TS]

00:27:36   going into it and he's not one to ever [TS]

00:27:38   hold back from that kind of thing I read [TS]

00:27:40   a hard a hard SF story he had to hugo [TS]

00:27:43   nominees last year one was a little [TS]

00:27:44   brother and was this hard SF story that [TS]

00:27:46   he wrote that was great it was so great [TS]

00:27:48   and I think in the end I realized it was [TS]

00:27:50   because if it was political it wasn't [TS]

00:27:53   political in that sort of polemic you [TS]

00:27:55   know lecturing kind of feeling that I [TS]

00:27:58   got from what if you ever go read down [TS]

00:28:00   and out in the magic kingdom yes also a [TS]

00:28:01   right which is also very good and is [TS]

00:28:03   also shied away from that his sort of [TS]

00:28:06   political leanings but I mean I think [TS]

00:28:08   he's a talented writer and he's a is [TS]

00:28:09   mark I and you know I i know that [TS]

00:28:12   there's a lot of you know his work is [TS]

00:28:15   also very very divisive in that regard [TS]

00:28:16   because of the politics i think i think [TS]

00:28:18   he's an extremist and I generally yes i [TS]

00:28:21   agree with sort of what he's about [TS]

00:28:24   but not to the extreme that he takes it [TS]

00:28:25   right I don't mind having political [TS]

00:28:28   statement obviously the windup girl is a [TS]

00:28:31   deeply political book as a sci-fi novel [TS]

00:28:34   it's incredibly political but I didn't [TS]

00:28:37   mind it because it was about it was all [TS]

00:28:39   kind of infused in a setting where as a [TS]

00:28:41   little brother was just their whole [TS]

00:28:45   chapters that were like he well he took [TS]

00:28:47   his xbox and he used the open-source [TS]

00:28:49   colonel too [TS]

00:28:50   create the encrypted network so that and [TS]

00:28:53   she's like oh my god it's it's not [TS]

00:28:55   theirs [TS]

00:28:56   it's just all artifice the final are [TS]

00:28:57   there at all sounds like Atlas Shrugged [TS]

00:29:00   only completely different with Atlas [TS]

00:29:04   coated annapolis web [TS]

00:29:06   well I you know having that little [TS]

00:29:07   brother I can address that although you [TS]

00:29:09   know core is an extremist and he's and [TS]

00:29:11   he's unapologetically you know in favor [TS]

00:29:13   of certain things regardless of the [TS]

00:29:14   consequences but I i think for the way I [TS]

00:29:16   say for the win for the win because it [TS]

00:29:19   is much more like down out the magic [TS]

00:29:21   kingdom and it's got it you know first [TS]

00:29:23   off its a rollicking good story like [TS]

00:29:25   it's it's a story that spools itself out [TS]

00:29:29   in a really interesting way taking place [TS]

00:29:31   across I don't know four continents all [TS]

00:29:34   the protagonist just about our teenagers [TS]

00:29:37   are a few adults involved and it is an [TS]

00:29:40   insight into a world that Corey [TS]

00:29:41   understands quite well and he clearly [TS]

00:29:43   saw expert help to tell the story [TS]

00:29:45   correctly in places he didn't know so [TS]

00:29:47   there's a lot of stuff about multiplayer [TS]

00:29:48   worldwide multiplayer games games that [TS]

00:29:50   he's invented for the book but that have [TS]

00:29:52   a close resemblance to games out there [TS]

00:29:54   so it's set within and without [TS]

00:29:56   is it said sort of in a game world and [TS]

00:29:59   in the real world or is it both or one [TS]

00:30:01   or the other it's more like the [TS]

00:30:03   description of a about well you know [TS]

00:30:05   action is based on a story he wrote i'm [TS]

00:30:07   blanking on the name of a little Anya or [TS]

00:30:09   something it's a short story where he's [TS]

00:30:11   changed he's kept some of the things the [TS]

00:30:13   same it's it's mostly outside the game [TS]

00:30:15   world there's not much of a sense of [TS]

00:30:17   being in the game world all the time the [TS]

00:30:19   game world is used for political [TS]

00:30:20   organizing and you know that sounds very [TS]

00:30:22   polemical no but I know this is what's [TS]

00:30:24   funny is i mean the book and the book [TS]

00:30:26   starts with like these great narrative [TS]

00:30:27   elements he's i interviewed Corey a few [TS]

00:30:30   weeks ago for an article I'm writing [TS]

00:30:31   about crowdfunding I said Korea just [TS]

00:30:34   read for the win and I'm unclear when [TS]

00:30:35   you actually transform yourself into a [TS]

00:30:37   70 year old indian girl at what point in [TS]

00:30:39   your life did that occur because he [TS]

00:30:41   writes from the perspective of chinese [TS]

00:30:43   american indian and even like other [TS]

00:30:46   cultural you any rights in a way that [TS]

00:30:48   feels like it has a great degree of [TS]

00:30:50   verisimilitude it's not like what people [TS]

00:30:52   think their lives are like it's much [TS]

00:30:53   more what from my reading at least their [TS]

00:30:55   lives are actually like he doesn't hide [TS]

00:30:57   the grid the danger the TDM and all that [TS]

00:31:00   but it's still a very good strong story [TS]

00:31:02   now in [TS]

00:31:03   this is gonna sound ridiculous in the [TS]

00:31:06   middle of this he explains how things [TS]

00:31:07   like credit default swaps work and I i [TS]

00:31:10   know that sounds pretty boring and [TS]

00:31:12   political and it is not it's very [TS]

00:31:14   entertaining because he's weaving this [TS]

00:31:16   story about this sort of rise of a new [TS]

00:31:18   working class and that suppressed and [TS]

00:31:20   he's telling it to the voices of all [TS]

00:31:22   these very very interesting people and [TS]

00:31:24   events that were familiar with you know [TS]

00:31:26   uprisings put down in china and the [TS]

00:31:28   shifting of labor and gold farming you [TS]

00:31:30   know if you know if you follow this at [TS]

00:31:32   all there are thousands tens of [TS]

00:31:33   thousands millions of people worldwide [TS]

00:31:35   whose entire occupation in very poor [TS]

00:31:37   conditions is to go into these massive [TS]

00:31:39   multiplayer online games and too tedious [TS]

00:31:42   tasks to make gold that is sold in game [TS]

00:31:44   the players for real money through [TS]

00:31:46   various means and some games tolerated [TS]

00:31:48   some do not [TS]

00:31:49   but there are ways around it and I think [TS]

00:31:50   that's the core is this like real world [TS]

00:31:52   situation that sounds ridiculous but [TS]

00:31:54   there are millions and millions of [TS]

00:31:55   people but i believe think this is [TS]

00:31:57   documented now engaged in this [TS]

00:31:59   profession you know they're working in [TS]

00:32:00   sweatshops 12 hours a day or whatever to [TS]

00:32:02   farming game and so it would be science [TS]

00:32:05   fiction it were actually real [TS]

00:32:07   yeah I i mean is that sounds like the [TS]

00:32:09   science fictional premise and yet it's [TS]

00:32:12   it's true there it's the arbitrage of [TS]

00:32:14   the developed world versus developing [TS]

00:32:15   world is that there's and the internet [TS]

00:32:17   leverages the ability for the developing [TS]

00:32:19   world to use it's incredibly cheap labor [TS]

00:32:21   to produce the results that would be [TS]

00:32:22   unbelievably marginal in the developed [TS]

00:32:25   world like I'm not going to put 12 hours [TS]

00:32:27   in for the equivalent of one dollar and [TS]

00:32:29   to make you know to be paid that and to [TS]

00:32:31   make ten dollars for my employers and [TS]

00:32:33   that's possible in china and india and [TS]

00:32:34   some other places so you know I think [TS]

00:32:36   the story is very enjoyable that you [TS]

00:32:37   know i'll tell you the brief narrative [TS]

00:32:38   without giving anything away is that [TS]

00:32:40   it's basically gamers all over the world [TS]

00:32:42   some of them gold farmers some of them [TS]

00:32:44   more interested in the gameplay wind up [TS]

00:32:46   feeling like compressed and betrayed and [TS]

00:32:49   as if they could have a voice and don't [TS]

00:32:51   and they develop essentially a worldwide [TS]

00:32:53   workers network that allows them to try [TS]

00:32:56   to push for like unionization and other [TS]

00:32:57   things again the sound stuff polemical [TS]

00:32:59   but it's a really fun story it doesn't [TS]

00:33:01   get overwrought any mixes in economic [TS]

00:33:04   education in a way that is totally [TS]

00:33:06   natural because he's trying to explain [TS]

00:33:08   to both me as someone who's a very [TS]

00:33:10   technical person but not a gamer and two [TS]

00:33:12   other people who are not involved in the [TS]

00:33:13   world always try to explain how the game [TS]

00:33:15   economy works in terms of the real [TS]

00:33:17   autonomy as opposed to the real economy [TS]

00:33:19   in terms of game economies [TS]

00:33:20   wow you did Glenn you're going to make [TS]

00:33:22   me read more current cory doctorow I'm [TS]

00:33:24   gonna curse you for that it's very fun i [TS]

00:33:25   got through the book I was reading it [TS]

00:33:27   like it was on fire because it's just it [TS]

00:33:29   is a rollicking good read and you'd [TS]

00:33:31   understand credit default swaps [TS]

00:33:33   afterward with is reading like it's on [TS]

00:33:35   fire the opposite of what I couldn't put [TS]

00:33:36   it down because it's like it that's [TS]

00:33:39   where the same thing you'd be an audio [TS]

00:33:40   making up the road across or down that [TS]

00:33:42   is i just got a really fast i think this [TS]

00:33:44   way as if the pages were burning away as [TS]

00:33:47   i read them i was reading so fast there [TS]

00:33:49   is a market that Corey would probably [TS]

00:33:51   oppose books that incinerator [TS]

00:33:54   well he'd argue that any book with DRM [TS]

00:33:57   is essentially a Burn After Reading well [TS]

00:34:00   don't share the dvds that [TS]

00:34:01   self-destructed [TS]

00:34:02   yes that old dude is the old yeah yeah [TS]

00:34:05   consumers really wanted to kiss i love [TS]

00:34:08   that Corey talks the talk but he also [TS]

00:34:10   walks the walk down the magic kingdom i [TS]

00:34:12   actually had sitting on my kindle for a [TS]

00:34:13   while now because he just makes that [TS]

00:34:14   available as a free download in its it [TS]

00:34:17   because it's a very good book i mean i [TS]

00:34:18   read a paper copy of it so I didn't you [TS]

00:34:20   know paper and flames as i as i read it [TS]

00:34:23   but it's got some really interesting [TS]

00:34:24   ideas in it and uh it's just it's set in [TS]

00:34:27   disney world and it's just it's kind of [TS]

00:34:28   crazy and and fun and I i think that so [TS]

00:34:31   far as the favorite my favorite of the [TS]

00:34:33   things that he's written not little [TS]

00:34:34   brother little brother I like little [TS]

00:34:36   brother but I mean I you know at the [TS]

00:34:38   same time you know what I'm saying about [TS]

00:34:40   them appreciate it is though [TS]

00:34:41   no I I totally get that I mean like I [TS]

00:34:43   don't I don't that's not necessarily [TS]

00:34:44   something that I'm cognizant of because [TS]

00:34:46   you know I knew going like I said I knew [TS]

00:34:47   going in this is corey you know I'm [TS]

00:34:49   gonna take it with a grain of salt [TS]

00:34:51   you know for his political stuff but you [TS]

00:34:53   know I still think the story is [TS]

00:34:55   interesting and I think the characters [TS]

00:34:56   are cool and you know there is a kind of [TS]

00:34:58   you know it is kind of your typical like [TS]

00:35:00   I what I like about it is that it's one [TS]

00:35:03   it's like your typical movie where it's [TS]

00:35:04   on the run from you know the man and [TS]

00:35:07   only it's you know it's like a teenager [TS]

00:35:10   you know instead of you know it like [TS]

00:35:11   Sheila before whatever [TS]

00:35:13   in addition to what will assign some [TS]

00:35:15   reading but we'll do that offline that i [TS]

00:35:16   love it if we could like all agree at [TS]

00:35:18   some point to read something soon and I [TS]

00:35:21   and discuss it that kinect kinect [TS]

00:35:23   guessing since we're still like [TS]

00:35:24   establishing a format sure there is no [TS]

00:35:26   format is that we have also what [TS]

00:35:27   discovered already [TS]

00:35:29   I was gonna say yes and I know Glenn [TS]

00:35:30   already brought up for the wind but like [TS]

00:35:31   perhaps you know the rest of us on here [TS]

00:35:33   might suggest a book that's a good idea [TS]

00:35:35   I was going to start with what are you [TS]

00:35:37   reading and then perhaps we can suggest [TS]

00:35:38   a book after that absolutely you're [TS]

00:35:40   you're in charge [TS]

00:35:41   you're the boss so now i'm really not [TS]

00:35:43   i'm really really are my behind me and [TS]

00:35:45   I'm the agitator in on this podcast I'm [TS]

00:35:47   not the boss now do what I say and tell [TS]

00:35:50   me what are you what are you reading [TS]

00:35:52   Glen are you reading something right now [TS]

00:35:54   I well I just finished recently a book [TS]

00:35:57   recommended for Cory but it down you [TS]

00:35:59   supposed to be on a podcast why are you [TS]

00:36:00   reading random violence offenses book is [TS]

00:36:02   burning he has to reduce supporters and [TS]

00:36:04   don't burn themselves glad the is a book [TS]

00:36:08   suggested by cory doctorow on the [TS]

00:36:10   bling-bling blog and i immediately got a [TS]

00:36:12   library surprisingly and bitter seeds [TS]

00:36:15   and the the synopsis i just read it I [TS]

00:36:17   think officially a couple weeks ago and [TS]

00:36:19   it's not see Superman who are really [TS]

00:36:22   Superman and super powerful beings that [TS]

00:36:25   are evil that are sort of helping us [TS]

00:36:27   during World War two [TS]

00:36:28   so it's it's entertaining but a little [TS]

00:36:30   crazy and it gets crazier as a novel [TS]

00:36:32   goes on [TS]

00:36:32   I'd say ultimately disappointing but [TS]

00:36:34   very interesting and well-written [TS]

00:36:36   fascinating and sort of becomes more [TS]

00:36:40   comic booky as the book goes on [TS]

00:36:42   wow I haven't even heard of that who's [TS]

00:36:44   the author its role model fumble it is i [TS]

00:36:49   have read something by on his sucks he's [TS]

00:36:51   terrible [TS]

00:36:51   let me consult the entire really from [TS]

00:36:53   its he's into the city in the city i [TS]

00:36:56   think it's written by google still [TS]

00:36:57   loading in tribulus is his name [TS]

00:37:00   alright who i believe is written a [TS]

00:37:02   previous books i think this has gotten [TS]

00:37:03   more play in some of his earlier novels [TS]

00:37:06   everyone wants to believe that the Nazis [TS]

00:37:08   had actual Superman not just big brawny [TS]

00:37:11   blonde people so I want to believe that [TS]

00:37:13   yes we all we all want not Superman but [TS]

00:37:16   he's actually done something about it [TS]

00:37:17   but what if there were with Dan what are [TS]

00:37:20   you reading [TS]

00:37:21   I'm currently reading I set aside i was [TS]

00:37:24   a part of the way through a nonfiction [TS]

00:37:26   book Michael Lewis is the big short [TS]

00:37:27   which is very good outside the realm of [TS]

00:37:29   this project [TS]

00:37:30   yes and I said it aside to read uh [TS]

00:37:32   because I got out the library so i only [TS]

00:37:34   have a week to read it which is likely [TS]

00:37:35   to the library that's like drm [TS]

00:37:38   and live like it's like it's like it's [TS]

00:37:39   on fire Shane library man called tongues [TS]

00:37:43   of serpents which is the sixth book in a [TS]

00:37:47   series by a woman named Naomi Novik [TS]

00:37:50   which basically is predicated on this [TS]

00:37:52   premise of its the Napoleonic Wars and [TS]

00:37:55   ships are fighting oh there's these huge [TS]

00:37:57   naval battles but they're also dragons [TS]

00:38:00   I've been addicted to this series to i [TS]

00:38:02   picked up the first 1i think it was free [TS]

00:38:04   as a kindle book from amazon right that [TS]

00:38:06   understands what they do is the first [TS]

00:38:07   first book is free and you're all [TS]

00:38:10   publishers have realized that if I can [TS]

00:38:12   get you hooked on a free book 1 then the [TS]

00:38:14   rest of them you will follow [TS]

00:38:15   I really wanted first posterous to me [TS]

00:38:18   and I read it and I'm like this is darn [TS]

00:38:20   good that makes me actually over there [TS]

00:38:22   could be dragons turn the polyamine [TS]

00:38:24   because basically the way that they [TS]

00:38:25   organize it is it the dragons are [TS]

00:38:27   basically they've always been dragons [TS]

00:38:28   dragons are basically used as like the [TS]

00:38:31   aerial core like the like it's like [TS]

00:38:33   world war one dog fights except they're [TS]

00:38:35   on dragons instead of in planes but the [TS]

00:38:37   sector employees or so if you want like [TS]

00:38:39   the high-concept log mine [TS]

00:38:40   it's like Dragon dogfight it's like it's [TS]

00:38:43   like Horatio Hornblower streets and [TS]

00:38:45   McCaffrey wow oh my god that is Ananda [TS]

00:38:49   poliana quartz which means Scoville like [TS]

00:38:50   it because its historical exactly i [TS]

00:38:53   actually I well i bought the first three [TS]

00:38:55   of those in paperback and I haven't read [TS]

00:38:57   that yeah well she came out this was [TS]

00:38:59   kind of weird because the first we were [TS]

00:39:00   released as tree as mass-market [TS]

00:39:02   paperbacks all the same time because I [TS]

00:39:03   guess she told she had written the three [TS]

00:39:05   of them like a whore and she's now up to [TS]

00:39:07   the sixth one I I have to say I think [TS]

00:39:09   she gets interesting threads as the [TS]

00:39:11   series goes on because i think that the [TS]

00:39:14   dragons in this world are all like not [TS]

00:39:16   just you know ascension but like pretty [TS]

00:39:18   Darren intelligent like they can all [TS]

00:39:20   they're all got like facilities for [TS]

00:39:21   languages and and stuff like that so [TS]

00:39:24   that their becomes a very interesting [TS]

00:39:26   issue of do they have rights you know [TS]

00:39:29   what is the sort of you know how should [TS]

00:39:31   they be treated to be treated like [TS]

00:39:32   animals should be treated like people [TS]

00:39:34   and it does it was kind of cool schools [TS]

00:39:37   that she totally spans the globe with [TS]

00:39:39   the adventures that they start you know [TS]

00:39:41   in sort of England napoleonic wars and [TS]

00:39:43   then they span out to Africa and China [TS]

00:39:45   and in this most current volume [TS]

00:39:47   australia and she's got a great year for [TS]

00:39:50   the dialogue and settings are fantastic [TS]

00:39:53   i do think that her plots have started [TS]

00:39:54   to lose a little bit of thread and I [TS]

00:39:56   think she said there's a she has ideas [TS]

00:39:58   for a couple more books but I hoping [TS]

00:40:00   that you sort of wrap this up and moves [TS]

00:40:01   on to something else because I think [TS]

00:40:02   she's been immersed herself in [TS]

00:40:03   Napoleonic Wars for long enough haven't [TS]

00:40:06   we all [TS]

00:40:06   and Scott got whatever what are you [TS]

00:40:09   reading [TS]

00:40:09   I will speak i'm not reading this [TS]

00:40:11   currently but it involves dragon so i [TS]

00:40:13   will mention it very briefly I guess [TS]

00:40:15   magazine the the adamantine palace was a [TS]

00:40:19   really good book about a it's a fantasy [TS]

00:40:22   book and it's basically these people [TS]

00:40:24   kind of enslaved the dragons and drug [TS]

00:40:26   them up so that they are docile and no [TS]

00:40:29   longer control themselves and can be [TS]

00:40:31   written and it follows the path of one [TS]

00:40:33   dragon who kind of gets free of this and [TS]

00:40:36   regains its intelligence so check that [TS]

00:40:39   out but I'm reading right now a book [TS]

00:40:42   called Jason you like this [TS]

00:40:44   the dream of perpetual motion and is the [TS]

00:40:48   narrator is imprisoned in a Zeppelin [TS]

00:40:51   hovering above the city sorry react so [TS]

00:40:56   you're just making this up right now [TS]

00:40:58   aren't you [TS]

00:40:59   I have not and the the Zeppelin is [TS]

00:41:00   powered by a perpetual motion machine [TS]

00:41:02   that may or may not be failing [TS]

00:41:05   I and he describes that's how it starts [TS]

00:41:08   and then he describes how he got to [TS]

00:41:10   where he is and it's very interested [TS]

00:41:12   steampunky if anyone likes steampunk ah [TS]

00:41:15   yes and we should talk to me on perhaps [TS]

00:41:17   in another installment about a [TS]

00:41:19   Boneshaker which I know Scott you and I [TS]

00:41:21   have read that is steampunky as well [TS]

00:41:23   that has plus zombie I was gonna say [TS]

00:41:25   plus so I sep ones [TS]

00:41:27   yes zombie + Zeppelin equals yeah for [TS]

00:41:29   somebody to do a steampunky Brewster and [TS]

00:41:32   really once that starts in punky [TS]

00:41:35   Brewster's Millions actually that best [TS]

00:41:39   crossover ever if I i'm sort of this [TS]

00:41:42   genre thing is certain you know this is [TS]

00:41:43   I had a interregnum I think I didn't [TS]

00:41:46   read sci-fi much for years re relatives [TS]

00:41:49   some classics in the last several years [TS]

00:41:50   I've started quite a bit of it again and [TS]

00:41:52   it is like all these new genres like [TS]

00:41:54   steampunk was and they're sort of you [TS]

00:41:56   know sort of cyberpunk and there was [TS]

00:41:57   Bruce Sterling was running steampunk in [TS]

00:41:59   like nineteen ninety-five right [TS]

00:42:01   in but like that the difference engine [TS]

00:42:03   but like steampunk is like you know [TS]

00:42:05   totally ochre all and then there's the [TS]

00:42:07   new weird which meal falls into but [TS]

00:42:10   there's a ton of other authors writing [TS]

00:42:11   that then there's like the sort of [TS]

00:42:13   revenge of the Golden Age kinds of [TS]

00:42:15   things that are like super hard science [TS]

00:42:18   or super non hard science so it seems [TS]

00:42:21   like there's a like this flux must be [TS]

00:42:23   more readers demanding more different [TS]

00:42:25   kinds of things for these explosion of [TS]

00:42:27   new genres but you know we'll always [TS]

00:42:28   have Zeppelin's and revisionist world [TS]

00:42:30   war two Nazi fantasy so what will always [TS]

00:42:33   have Zeppelin's is definitely the name [TS]

00:42:34   of this episode was a Jason Jason let me [TS]

00:42:40   turn it back to you what are you reading [TS]

00:42:41   oh yes so i just finished that third [TS]

00:42:44   book in the george RR martin sequence so [TS]

00:42:46   i have a feast for crows next but you [TS]

00:42:48   know how / in ratchet resent that ladies [TS]

00:42:51   it [TS]

00:42:51   given how slow he isn't writing those [TS]

00:42:53   and then it'll probably be another year [TS]

00:42:54   before the next one is out i'm just [TS]

00:42:56   looking to let it sit there until I can [TS]

00:42:58   handle it but we need a podcast about [TS]

00:42:59   how fantasy writers take forever between [TS]

00:43:02   actually speaking of dragons i'm reading [TS]

00:43:05   at long last after putting it off for [TS]

00:43:07   like a year i'm finally reading the girl [TS]

00:43:09   with the dragon tattoo by stieg larsson [TS]

00:43:11   which is not a genre black just read [TS]

00:43:13   that not long i just i just read it as [TS]

00:43:15   well maybe we should talk to maybe we'll [TS]

00:43:16   talk about in our international I guess [TS]

00:43:18   the key mystery podcast that's real [TS]

00:43:20   mystery and and it's got some finance in [TS]

00:43:23   their writing some journalism in there [TS]

00:43:25   and all anyway I'm finally going to read [TS]

00:43:26   that I just started reading that and i'm [TS]

00:43:28   also in the middle of science book from [TS]

00:43:32   eternity to here by sean carroll which [TS]

00:43:34   is about time and how we define time and [TS]

00:43:38   and trying to figure out why the arrow [TS]

00:43:40   of time points forward why did things [TS]

00:43:42   happen in one direction and not the [TS]

00:43:43   other [TS]

00:43:44   I hear it's the fire in which we burn [TS]

00:43:46   yes yes I was gonna say ty it's also an [TS]

00:43:50   episode time's arrow also an episode of [TS]

00:43:52   Star Trek The Next Generation we did it [TS]

00:43:54   is Morris Wayne buried in san francisco [TS]

00:43:56   where I'm speaking to you data's head is [TS]

00:43:58   here with me now [TS]

00:44:00   what is it reading right now poor brent [TS]

00:44:02   Spiner will always has a plan so that's [TS]

00:44:05   what i'm reading so what should we read [TS]

00:44:06   next I actually think that dead Glennon [TS]

00:44:08   and dan you re Boneshaker yeah I think [TS]

00:44:11   that's right shows the Sun and it's got [TS]

00:44:13   someone's it [TS]

00:44:14   I like a zombies zombies it's set in the [TS]

00:44:17   Pacific Northwest it's set in seattle [TS]

00:44:19   told it was an altar but it's an [TS]

00:44:20   alternate history LKC ok let's check the [TS]

00:44:23   box its tendency I don't need weed on [TS]

00:44:25   the website that lists yeah alternate [TS]

00:44:28   history civil war-era alternate history [TS]

00:44:31   with historical but it's all historical [TS]

00:44:33   and they think they may mention New York [TS]

00:44:35   so it's okay for me that reminds me I [TS]

00:44:37   mean yeah at some point in the future [TS]

00:44:38   episode i would love if anybody else has [TS]

00:44:40   read Michael ship on the Yiddish police [TS]

00:44:44   oh yeah that's another great but that we [TS]

00:44:46   are really interesting that we seem [TS]

00:44:48   worth talking about a we're going to put [TS]

00:44:49   another list that everything is my it's [TS]

00:44:52   science fiction inside ristic science [TS]

00:44:54   fiction subcategory it's all history so [TS]

00:44:57   it has to be it is all tests yes that's [TS]

00:44:58   a fascinating fascinating book [TS]

00:45:00   don't throw that up it really isn't and [TS]

00:45:02   Scott you read that too i have read that [TS]

00:45:03   alright so weak that one is like being [TS]

00:45:05   that we should have done that today [TS]

00:45:06   because we have a moment we've all had [TS]

00:45:08   that one [TS]

00:45:09   let's go back and our little yeah we [TS]

00:45:10   just record another day i'm hoping that [TS]

00:45:12   this podcast will have more episodes and [TS]

00:45:14   we'll be able once a month or so to talk [TS]

00:45:15   about about books so what should we read [TS]

00:45:17   next other than boneshakers anything you [TS]

00:45:19   guys want to throw out there that we are [TS]

00:45:21   ordered or the listener should should [TS]

00:45:23   handle i will throw out my go-to [TS]

00:45:25   recommendation which i've been [TS]

00:45:26   recommending to a lot of people in the [TS]

00:45:28   world by the car away [TS]

00:45:29   indeed record dateline what no what no [TS]

00:45:33   we're now it's a book called the gone [TS]

00:45:34   away world by Nick harkway who's a [TS]

00:45:36   british writer who I actually had a [TS]

00:45:39   couple exchanged with on Twitter he's a [TS]

00:45:40   very nice guy he's also the son of john [TS]

00:45:42   the car a so if you like your new [TS]

00:45:45   thrillers he's he's got a little bit of [TS]

00:45:47   that going to but it's a [TS]

00:45:48   post-apocalyptic novel that's very I [TS]

00:45:52   don't know how to describe it other than [TS]

00:45:53   to say that it's unique I mean what [TS]

00:45:54   other book the heavy run into that has [TS]

00:45:56   like ninjas and mimes and it's a [TS]

00:46:00   post-apocalyptic world it'sit's kind of [TS]

00:46:03   comedic at times zeppelins there's a [TS]

00:46:06   there's a massive sort of driving [TS]

00:46:08   monstrosity machine but i don't think [TS]

00:46:11   there's necessarily exist because a ways [TS]

00:46:13   x it's not [TS]

00:46:14   anyways arm it's it's one of those books [TS]

00:46:18   that is it is is hard to put down once [TS]

00:46:21   you sort of start to get into it and it [TS]

00:46:24   really it's just it's unlike so much [TS]

00:46:26   other stuff that i have that i have read [TS]

00:46:28   and it was I think I read it last year [TS]

00:46:30   and it was one of my favorite books of [TS]

00:46:31   last year and I think it's how comes [TS]

00:46:34   highly recommended i don't think i think [TS]

00:46:35   it's it's flown on under a lot of radars [TS]

00:46:37   but i would i would definitely recommend [TS]

00:46:38   I'm not slide is your grade are at my [TS]

00:46:41   library will have a copy for me waiting [TS]

00:46:43   for a World so what should we read next [TS]

00:46:46   got RR is everyone here fans of jasper [TS]

00:46:48   fforde yes I don't know who that is [TS]

00:46:51   oh well what this podcast is over yeah [TS]

00:46:54   i'm out of not just for Ford row in that [TS]

00:46:58   case yes oh just performed here she is [TS]

00:47:00   great for yet for that my rights for [TS]

00:47:03   that author it is a non character who [TS]

00:47:04   was a man he he's probably most famous [TS]

00:47:06   for his Thursday Next books in which the [TS]

00:47:09   main character thursday next is a [TS]

00:47:11   detective that has to maintain the [TS]

00:47:15   plotlines of books so they jump into [TS]

00:47:18   books and make sure everything's alright [TS]

00:47:20   as a literary did a literary detectors [TS]

00:47:23   f1's there are well the book i am [TS]

00:47:25   recommending is his latest shades of [TS]

00:47:27   grey which includes no Zeppelin sadly [TS]

00:47:30   but on it is a good book and it but the [TS]

00:47:33   only downside is it is the first book in [TS]

00:47:35   the trilogy which I did not realize [TS]

00:47:36   until I finished it so i wasn't quite as [TS]

00:47:38   you turned out he not so finished [TS]

00:47:40   yeah likes like Scott I read it and it [TS]

00:47:42   ends on a bit of a cliffhanger but it [TS]

00:47:45   was good [TS]

00:47:45   alright is good that's good I i have [TS]

00:47:47   never heard of of that person and i will [TS]

00:47:49   look that up that's great so it's set in [TS]

00:47:51   the world that is kinda for devoid of [TS]

00:47:53   color and people are ranked by what [TS]

00:47:56   colors they can perceive and there's a [TS]

00:47:58   company that supplies artificial color [TS]

00:48:00   so check that wow when what what should [TS]

00:48:04   we read next [TS]

00:48:06   this is gets little off track but I've [TS]

00:48:07   been reading fables comic book series [TS]

00:48:09   but its Kiki and sort of science fiction [TS]

00:48:11   and fantasy I guess we may have to [TS]

00:48:13   invite you into the comic book club [TS]

00:48:15   segment of this popular which which we [TS]

00:48:19   also are doing [TS]

00:48:20   I can't tell whether like variables or [TS]

00:48:22   its stupid it there but there are [TS]

00:48:23   moments of real brilliance and sort of [TS]

00:48:27   unique thing [TS]

00:48:28   this in some marvelous art it but the [TS]

00:48:30   storyline is you know you watched like [TS]

00:48:32   ugh like the Simpsons at one point was [TS]

00:48:33   fantastic and they could have an ABC and [TS]

00:48:36   D stories going on at the same time [TS]

00:48:37   without losing track of them and fables [TS]

00:48:40   kind of all a story and sometimes the a [TS]

00:48:42   story is sort of boring [TS]

00:48:43   alright and that's what we should read [TS]

00:48:46   next you're not really text did that [TS]

00:48:47   ringing endorsement [TS]

00:48:48   here's the thing is like you want to [TS]

00:48:49   punish us that it's three the superhero [TS]

00:48:52   what we do to you go Angie this and [TS]

00:48:54   decide yourself it's been collected into [TS]

00:48:55   giant volumes like all graphic novel [TS]

00:48:57   comic books are these days so I actually [TS]

00:48:59   want to breeding most of it i've read [TS]

00:49:00   some current issues but I've read most [TS]

00:49:02   of it through giant library issued [TS]

00:49:04   library balance back copies and sort of [TS]

00:49:07   fascinating it's an inch it's [TS]

00:49:07   interesting idea that what if all the [TS]

00:49:09   tables have been told are actually real [TS]

00:49:11   places in an alternate universe there [TS]

00:49:13   are don't recall Zeppelin's but there [TS]

00:49:15   are dragon there's no Zeppelin's but [TS]

00:49:17   dragons that's good that's all that's [TS]

00:49:19   like nature's trick nature Zeppelin [TS]

00:49:21   because I dragon it's got the hot air [TS]

00:49:24   and fly nature's nature's nature's i'm [TS]

00:49:28   going to say if you haven't read this [TS]

00:49:29   yet it's been out for a few years now [TS]

00:49:31   the sequel actually just came out [TS]

00:49:33   oryx and crake by margaret atwood 0 [TS]

00:49:35   which is a post-apocalyptic Margaret [TS]

00:49:38   Atwood who is who [TS]

00:49:40   it's actually a part of it is kind of [TS]

00:49:42   during apocalyptic pre and-and-and [TS]

00:49:44   during apocalypse [TS]

00:49:46   it's actually two parallel stories with [TS]

00:49:49   one character in common and it's one of [TS]

00:49:51   them is post-apocalypse and one is the [TS]

00:49:53   events that lead up to the apocalypse [TS]

00:49:55   and the last chapters are take place in [TS]

00:49:59   the same location at the moment where [TS]

00:50:02   the apocalypse is happening and at the [TS]

00:50:05   kind of climax of the book after the [TS]

00:50:07   apocalypse is is over and done with [TS]

00:50:10   which is it's really well done kind of a [TS]

00:50:12   and B story where you're flashing [TS]

00:50:14   backward and forward with this one [TS]

00:50:15   character really imaginative and the [TS]

00:50:18   world that sort of comes out of the [TS]

00:50:20   apocalypse is is well created as well [TS]

00:50:23   and now there's a sequel to it or let me [TS]

00:50:25   ask is the is the apocalypse caused by [TS]

00:50:28   Zeppelin's there are sadly no Zeppelin's [TS]

00:50:30   either before or after the apocalypse [TS]

00:50:32   although i think after they love the [TS]

00:50:34   Zeppelin that 1x no Zeppelin's operates [TS]

00:50:37   out that I didn't know it was what [TS]

00:50:38   should we read next with the Zeppelin's [TS]

00:50:40   I could have come up with something [TS]

00:50:41   boneshaker Boneshaker back to Boneshaker [TS]

00:50:44   again there are Zeppelin's in there and [TS]

00:50:45   all history and I think that's gonna [TS]

00:50:47   have to be one of the things on your [TS]

00:50:49   reading list comes true could hold [TS]

00:50:51   seattle's zombie Zeppelin it's a quick [TS]

00:50:53   read to its not it is not heavy stuff [TS]

00:50:55   it's not happening at my library [TS]

00:50:57   requested it shoots through the progress [TS]

00:50:59   bar on your ebook reader it's true king [TS]

00:51:02   it's gone it's only like now 200 [TS]

00:51:05   kilobytes [TS]

00:51:07   depressing than downloading a book [TS]

00:51:09   especially if you've written a novel as [TS]

00:51:11   some of us have to to download it and [TS]

00:51:13   see how quickly download because there's [TS]

00:51:15   nothing to this text files just like zip [TS]

00:51:17   and it's there that it's great if you're [TS]

00:51:19   a reader it's like overlook the books [TS]

00:51:21   already downloaded if you're right it's [TS]

00:51:22   like really all that work I put into it [TS]

00:51:24   and it takes two seconds to download it [TS]

00:51:25   so sometimes i buy them and just delete [TS]

00:51:27   them because it takes so little time you [TS]

00:51:29   that just it pains me right in my right [TS]

00:51:32   my chest I print them out and then some [TS]

00:51:35   of them taken from different from atop [TS]

00:51:38   my housing causing the apart from atop [TS]

00:51:40   my Zeppelin and then I throw them off [TS]

00:51:42   and they they flooded the ground while [TS]

00:51:44   on fire police fire a delight to pull [TS]

00:51:46   fireworks display all the burning books [TS]

00:51:49   is generally not it's from the plots [TS]

00:51:51   let's not even books burn themselves it [TS]

00:51:53   doesn't count [TS]

00:51:54   that's right out of your growth [TS]

00:51:55   self-immolating and I on that note I [TS]

00:51:58   think that we can call call this a a [TS]

00:52:00   success we we mentioned many books prove [TS]

00:52:02   that we aren't illiterate and we've got [TS]

00:52:04   a big to-do list involving Zeppelin's [TS]

00:52:06   for the future proof that were not [TS]

00:52:09   illiterate okay i'll mail you something [TS]

00:52:11   to read out loud next time to prove [TS]

00:52:12   you're not a little if you have a kid if [TS]

00:52:13   you have a kindle you can be illiterate [TS]

00:52:15   you can read to you can read to you [TS]

00:52:16   that's true in a nice soothing robotic [TS]

00:52:18   voice lower back where we started and it [TS]

00:52:21   is monotonous well thank you to glen and [TS]

00:52:25   to Dan and two Scott and Jason and we [TS]

00:52:28   are the the geeky book club participants [TS]

00:52:31   for today and to you listeners out there [TS]

00:52:34   whoever you might be [TS]

00:52:36   thank you for listening [TS]

00:52:39   for more information about the pivot the [TS]

00:52:47   incomparable [TS]

00:52:56   [Music] [TS]