12: Plant and Analyze


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   Hello and welcome to episode 12 of Upgrade from Relay FM. This episode of Upgrade is brought to

00:00:15   you by Hover, simplified domain management, MailRoute, a secure hosted email service for

00:00:20   protection from viruses and spam, and and also our friends, Jason loves these guys like all of

00:00:26   our friends at Dash where you can create beautiful dashboards in just a few clicks.

00:00:31   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:35   Hi Myke, I love all those people they are our friends all of them.

00:00:39   That's starting to seep into everything though by the way.

00:00:43   It's funny how things that you don't

00:00:46   um that you do once and you're like oh that's just a stupid thing I said and

00:00:50   then it becomes a thing after that because it resonates with

00:00:53   people and and comes back like the verticals has come back a bunch of times

00:00:57   and and the enemy discount and yeah it's funny that's it's that's great it's one

00:01:02   of the delights of doing a podcast is that you say something once and think

00:01:06   well that was kind of stupid and then it becomes a thing because people remember

00:01:09   it and think it was funny it's very strange and it comes back to you in weird

00:01:13   ways.

00:01:14   It still upsets me greatly that nobody has taken advantage of the enemy

00:01:19   discount.

00:01:21   It'll happen one day.

00:01:23   One day.

00:01:24   It'll happen.

00:01:25   The relay ad sales are going pretty well though, so they're gonna have to find a spot where

00:01:29   they're gonna find like the enemy slot.

00:01:31   Yeah, I don't know where that will be.

00:01:32   If it's been running out of space.

00:01:34   Maybe there's like...

00:01:35   At the very end of the show, carry it under like 10 minutes of silence and then there's

00:01:39   an ad.

00:01:40   Something like that.

00:01:42   And it will be like in reverse, so you have to rewind the show to hear the ad.

00:01:46   Yeah, you have to turn the cassette tape that you're listening to the show on backward.

00:01:51   Yeah, yeah that could be, that could be. But anyway it's a lot of fun. I'm sure someday

00:01:57   we will get an enemy to sponsor us and that'll be interesting.

00:02:00   To say the least. Cross fingers.

00:02:04   Would you like to do your favorite segment?

00:02:06   Sure, I hope, again, yes, I would love to do some follow up. And the, what I wanted

00:02:16   to say is that we got a lot after last week's show, we got a lot of tweets from people,

00:02:22   especially, saying "I'm really enjoying the show." And I thought, "Wow, are people in

00:02:27   a good mood? Did we have a particularly good show?" I hope that's true. I do wonder, since

00:02:33   we did talk in last week's show about how, although we don't like comments generally,

00:02:39   we love interacting with people on social media, if this was everybody's message to

00:02:43   us of like, well, here I am interacting with you on social media. But I hope it's not just

00:02:49   that, and that they actually literally, you know, were enjoying the show and not just

00:02:55   using social media to say that. But there was a lot of that last week, so I thought

00:02:58   that was pretty funny. Did you get that? I got that.

00:03:00   Yeah, yeah, I do. It's this interesting thing that I was listening to old episodes of one

00:03:08   of my favorite podcasts called Hello Internet and I mentioned this show quite

00:03:12   a lot because I like it, I like it a lot. And they were talking about feedback and

00:03:18   there's just this one little sound bite that I quite like which was positive

00:03:25   feedback trends to zero in the idea that the more and more you get of it the

00:03:30   harder it is to remember specific parts. So it's like when you ask me that

00:03:36   question I know that I am very lucky and I'm very happy that I get lots of good

00:03:43   feedback about the shows every day so it makes it harder to remember specific

00:03:48   things but like if you would have said to me did you see that bad tweet last

00:03:53   week about oh yeah I would definitely remember it tell me the time stamp yeah

00:03:58   you know so it's just yeah I mean yes I do remember actually I do remember

00:04:03   people talking. I remember getting lots of like, you know, good on you kind of type things

00:04:09   from last week, you know, people that were, "Oh, I am involved in this and I've been doing

00:04:14   this and congratulations on, you know, continuing to work on your own." That kind of stuff,

00:04:20   you know, like a lot of like, "Support, we're in this together" type messages, because that

00:04:25   was slightly different to usual, but yeah, I remember getting those.

00:04:27   Yeah, I mean, I didn't... It's not in the notes, but I did get a note from one person

00:04:32   that said, "This episode was a little too navel-gazey." That's exactly what he said.

00:04:37   And I respond and I said, "Well, you know, we did both just leave our jobs and not every

00:04:42   episode is going to be about that." But his point... I think his point was, I keep hearing

00:04:47   podcasters talk about how they don't have J-O-B jobs. And I get how it's really samey

00:04:54   from that perspective. But I don't regret us talking about it because this one of the

00:04:59   things on this podcast is it's sort of the story of our lives. Now you've got more podcasts.

00:05:04   Well I don't know, do you have more podcasts than me? We could fight it out. But you have

00:05:07   more podcasts in which you have a platform to talk about your what you're doing with

00:05:11   your career, especially analog since so much of this is about sort of like the feelings

00:05:16   of you going through this process and talking to Casey about it and making Casey question

00:05:21   in his life.

00:05:22   And so I don't have any regrets about us talking about it

00:05:26   here 'cause we don't have that many platforms to talk about

00:05:28   stuff like this and we do have that in common.

00:05:31   But I totally get how the podcast sphere can lose

00:05:35   perspective on this because you've got a lot of people

00:05:37   who are like that.

00:05:38   And I always felt that when I was a guy who was commuting

00:05:40   every day and you might've thought that too.

00:05:42   That it's like, wow, there's a lot of people talking about

00:05:44   quitting their jobs and working out of their house

00:05:47   in their pajamas and now we're those people.

00:05:50   But, you know, but it is our story is, you know, that's one of the things that we're both going through.

00:05:54   So I think it's logical for us to talk about it every now and then.

00:05:57   - I think I host more podcasts than you, but I think you own more podcasts than I do.

00:06:04   - I'm on—I think I'm on four that are recorded weekly.

00:06:09   - Yeah, see, I have, uh, I have five weekly shows and one, like, monthly show.

00:06:15   - Yeah, right. If you can call that a show.

00:06:18   No, I have six weekly shows.

00:06:22   - Okay, you win, you win.

00:06:23   You have a bigger platform than I do

00:06:25   to talk about not having your job anymore.

00:06:29   - I have a show that's like dedicated to that.

00:06:31   - I know, I know, it's amazing.

00:06:33   So anyway, I don't mind that we talked about it,

00:06:35   but the point is that the guy who said

00:06:36   we were too navel-gazy totally remember

00:06:38   the exact words of that tweet.

00:06:40   But a lot of really nice feedback from everybody else.

00:06:44   So I don't know whether that was semi ironic

00:06:47   for like, oh, okay, you like social feedback?

00:06:50   You're gonna get social feedback guys, but it was great.

00:06:53   So thank you everybody.

00:06:55   Listener Sam in particular,

00:06:57   a tweet that I wanted to mention said he loved last episode.

00:07:00   He said, and then he trained his magnifying glass on us.

00:07:04   He said, I study independent workers.

00:07:07   So everything you talked about is stuff I obsess over

00:07:09   at theworkologist.com, which is I believe

00:07:12   listener Sam's website.

00:07:13   I'm getting my PhD in positive organizational psychology

00:07:16   with a focus on indie work and how to best support

00:07:19   that style of work.

00:07:21   So listener Sam will be paying attention to our podcast

00:07:26   and noting our responses to stimuli, I think.

00:07:29   - Listener Sam, if you ever notice anything

00:07:32   that me and Jason do that are like warning signs,

00:07:35   please let us know.

00:07:36   - Let us know.

00:07:37   Let us know when-- - Any triggers, please.

00:07:39   Please make sure you're watching the triggers.

00:07:41   - Bad news.

00:07:42   Listener Sebastian wrote in, long time follower,

00:07:47   first time feedbacker, he said,

00:07:48   listening to last week's episode,

00:07:49   I was compelled to write you guys

00:07:51   on the subject of remembering to leave the house,

00:07:53   shower, et cetera.

00:07:55   I've been working at home for two years now

00:07:56   and admit to having practiced all of the embarrassing acts

00:07:59   you sheepishly discussed.

00:08:00   For me, getting a dog halfway through this period

00:08:02   has made the single biggest positive difference.

00:08:04   And he goes on to talk about how now he has to walk the dog,

00:08:07   he has to get out.

00:08:08   The dog provides some companionship and, you know,

00:08:11   Just, and I have this, we only have a cat here now,

00:08:13   but just having a pet in the house

00:08:15   and wondering what's the pet doing

00:08:17   and do I need to feed it and whatever,

00:08:19   that can be good.

00:08:20   And then with a dog, you gotta get out and walk the dog.

00:08:23   So I thought that was interesting.

00:08:24   I don't have a dog right now, but I do have kids.

00:08:26   So I have reasons to get in and out of the house

00:08:29   because I've got to take the kids places

00:08:30   and walk my son to school or pick him up.

00:08:32   And there's a lot going on there.

00:08:34   As for you, Myke, I don't know.

00:08:37   Maybe, is there a dog in your future?

00:08:39   I'm not a big animal person.

00:08:41   Alright.

00:08:42   Unfortunately.

00:08:43   Maybe a telepresence robot.

00:08:45   I would definitely have a telepresence robot.

00:08:48   Maybe I should get one of those dogs.

00:08:49   You can pay somebody to come once a day and just be in the robot for an hour or something.

00:08:56   Like a little robot pal.

00:08:58   That could work for me.

00:09:00   It's just an idea.

00:09:02   Or you could just get out and see people and all that.

00:09:05   That works too.

00:09:06   I was going swimming and forgot my swimming shorts. At least I got out of the house, Jason.

00:09:13   Yeah, yeah. That's true. Did you just come home or did you go buy some swimming shorts?

00:09:19   No, no, I just came home. I think the previous me would have bought swimming shorts, but

00:09:25   this is also me trying to be responsible with my finances.

00:09:28   Right. And they don't let you go naked in the Olympic pool.

00:09:32   They don't actually. I asked, but then I had to leave.

00:09:37   Isn't there a naked lane? Just like the far lane. We're not going to judge you. Just go

00:09:43   to the far lane.

00:09:44   The very far lane.

00:09:46   Yeah. I suppose you could go, maybe you could go in your pants.

00:09:50   Oh.

00:09:53   But then how would you get home?

00:09:55   Exactly. I don't think they're suitable for exercise.

00:10:00   not. Anyway, that was an interesting vertical, the naked swimming issues vertical. Listener

00:10:09   Joseph said something I don't think, something I think wasn't touched on that I think I'd

00:10:15   be interested in hearing about, especially from Myke, is this. What if Relay, or for

00:10:21   me, Six Colors, became enormously successful and necessitated a much larger staff or office

00:10:26   presence or business? Myke has said he doesn't see how he could ever possibly go back to

00:10:30   a corporate environment, but what if Relay became corporate? Would you work in an office?

00:10:35   Could you work in an office even if it was your place? What do you think about that?

00:10:42   I think that what I think about as corporate would maybe be different. I come from a world

00:10:51   of companies with like tens of thousands of employees you know. So I mean I hope

00:11:00   actually that one day I do have like a little team of people, a couple of people

00:11:05   that I work with and I would very much like to have an office space for Relay

00:11:11   based in London or wherever I live. I think that would be really cool but I think I

00:11:16   think there's a difference between like working with a few people and being

00:11:21   corporate. I mean, because currently I already work for a few people.

00:11:24   Right, right. And it's a smaller business and it's virtual, which is fine. I liked going

00:11:32   to an office. I didn't like the big commute, but I think you're right. I think there's

00:11:35   a bigger distinction here, which is that working for a company with hundreds or thousands of

00:11:39   people versus working for a company with eight. You know, there's that video, The Verge posted

00:11:44   a video today about sandwich video and they've got like eight people in their office in LA.

00:11:52   That's a really different kind of feeling from being this branch of this giant company

00:11:57   and you're in one division and all of that, which is what both of us went through.

00:12:04   I thought about that, that if my business got up and running and was really successful

00:12:09   to the point where I could see value in having outside office, someplace I could go to work

00:12:16   instead of working in my house. I wouldn't be against that if it made sense, but I would

00:12:24   want it to be close. I wouldn't want to drive across the bridge every day like I did for

00:12:29   15 years because that was a lot of time that I would really rather reclaim. But listener

00:12:36   Mr. Joseph actually says that he went back after not really liking his job and feeling

00:12:41   like he was becoming a hermit and how his dog wasn't sufficient social contact, take

00:12:45   that Sebastian, that he's back to an eight to five job, but he's moving, so he'll be

00:12:51   within five minutes of the office.

00:12:53   So he gets the no commute thing.

00:12:55   But I'm not opposed to it.

00:12:56   I had a friend who found an office in like a law firm that had an extra office and it

00:13:03   was like five minutes away from his house.

00:13:04   And it was just a little office, but he took it

00:13:08   and he's got that.

00:13:08   And actually, Greg, I think,

00:13:10   did Greg Noss mention this last week?

00:13:12   Maybe not, but I know Greg and his wife, who's a lawyer,

00:13:15   they have office space so they can get out of the house

00:13:18   and go to work.

00:13:19   - Yeah, he did mention it, I'm sure.

00:13:21   - Yeah, yeah.

00:13:22   So anyway, that was really interesting to listen to Joseph

00:13:25   and I think it's an interesting point

00:13:27   of how we view corporate versus not.

00:13:32   that yeah, it would be fun.

00:13:33   I've said this a bunch of times that the thing I miss most

00:13:36   after two months of doing this is the team.

00:13:39   We had a great team at IDG.

00:13:42   I had a really great team that I had built at Macworld.

00:13:46   And I miss that.

00:13:47   I miss having even two or three people

00:13:51   who were planning what we're doing

00:13:54   and helping each other out.

00:13:56   And I get a little of that,

00:13:57   like we've got the Slack chat room for Relay that I'm in,

00:14:00   and we've got one for the incomparable,

00:14:02   and Dan Morin is writing some stuff for Six Colors,

00:14:04   so he and I are chatting a lot,

00:14:06   but it's not quite the same as, you know,

00:14:09   back when I had that team thing.

00:14:11   So I totally miss that.

00:14:12   I don't think I need that to necessarily be in person,

00:14:15   but I do miss it, and that doesn't feel like an evil to me.

00:14:18   That's a good, I wish I still had something like that.

00:14:22   - Yeah, I mean, it's interesting to think how it might go.

00:14:26   Like I have put thought into, could I have a team one day?

00:14:30   And I would like that, I think I would like that,

00:14:32   people working with me.

00:14:33   'Cause I don't want to have to do everything

00:14:36   for myself forever.

00:14:37   I think it would be nice to,

00:14:41   I mean, 'cause even though I've obviously got

00:14:44   a lot more time to focus on Relay now,

00:14:49   I'm still focusing on kind of the whole stack, as it were.

00:14:54   Maybe even more so, because I now have more time

00:14:58   than Steven to look at these things.

00:15:00   So I wouldn't be surprised if,

00:15:03   and I would be happy to in the future,

00:15:05   just to, as the company grows,

00:15:07   to take on more responsibility.

00:15:09   But it's just interesting.

00:15:11   And to think maybe one day I could have somebody

00:15:15   who looks after ad sales for us.

00:15:16   I could have somebody who, I don't know,

00:15:19   does some production work for me,

00:15:20   actually does some show prep,

00:15:22   and without me need to do it.

00:15:24   Or maybe somebody books guests for me or something.

00:15:28   all of these things are very exciting to me.

00:15:30   - Yeah, I had this yesterday.

00:15:33   I was editing, I spent like two hours in the morning

00:15:36   rather than writing stories for six colors

00:15:37   or a couple freelance stories that I'm working on.

00:15:41   I was fixing the embedded audio player on the incomparable

00:15:46   because I got tired of looking at the relay pages

00:15:51   with your really nice embedded audio player

00:15:53   and then looking at our default QuickTime audio player

00:15:56   that Safari sticks in to the incomparable pages.

00:15:59   And so I had to figure out what your player was.

00:16:01   - Yep, 'cause we were 100% zero help with that.

00:16:05   - Yes, 'cause I asked, "Hey, how do you do that?"

00:16:07   And you guys are like, "Oh, I don't know.

00:16:08   I think it's in the CMS."

00:16:09   Yeah, thanks.

00:16:10   So I figured out what that was,

00:16:12   and it doesn't look as good now,

00:16:13   but then I looked up and it was 11 o'clock

00:16:16   and I'd spent two hours doing that.

00:16:18   And so that was not necessarily procrastinating or anything.

00:16:23   I wasn't really goofing off.

00:16:25   I was doing something to advance the quality of one of the things that I'm doing, but it

00:16:30   did strike me that you're wearing a lot of hats when it's just you or just a couple of

00:16:37   people and it's not a bad thing to grow to the point where you can say, "Here's somebody

00:16:43   who can focus on this," or, "Here's somebody who can focus on that." Not necessarily even

00:16:46   full time, maybe it's even part time, but being able to say, "Can I get five hours a

00:16:51   week from you to fix this stuff on our website. Maybe someday.

00:16:57   Should we take a quick break and then we still have a little bit more follow up?

00:17:02   I need a friend. I need to hear from a friend, Myke. Tell me about a friend.

00:17:06   Hover is a friend and they are supporting this week's episode of Upgrade. Hover is the

00:17:11   best place on the internet to buy and manage domain names. It's been my choice for years,

00:17:17   Jason's choice too. I think that when you look at this industry of people selling

00:17:22   domain names, there is no competition to Hover. And that is because they just do

00:17:27   everything that you want them to do and they do it in a way that you're going to

00:17:30   be happy with. They don't make you run a gauntlet of add-on screens to buy extra

00:17:38   special DNS protection for the gold plan. They don't do any of that

00:17:42   stuff. You go to hover.com, you type in either the domain that you're looking

00:17:46   for or you type in some keywords and they'll show you what's available.

00:17:49   They'll show you what's available from their list of over 200 TLD options. They

00:17:54   have everything you'd expect .co, .com, .fm, .me, .tv as well you know maybe

00:18:00   here in the entertainment business but they also have all the crazy ones like I

00:18:04   don't know .diamonds is probably one I'm making them up now maybe .bears I

00:18:08   don't know if there's a .bears yet but if there ever is hover will have it.

00:18:11   Oh my god, I'm so on that. That would be great.

00:18:15   Jason.bear. They have .coffee, .plumbing, .academy, and so on and so on. Basically,

00:18:24   they can give you all of the serious domains you need to run your businesses and to have your

00:18:28   websites. They can also give you all the joke domains that you need to set up pranks for your

00:18:32   friends. And whilst I'm talking about these options, they have great prices on them all.

00:18:37   their .com domains for example they start at $12.99. All of Hover's domains include

00:18:43   Whois privacy for free, they keep your private information private. Hover have great stuff like

00:18:47   volume discounts if you're renewing multiple domains at once, they can help you out with

00:18:52   email addresses, storage and forwarding of that too. They have their valet service where they take

00:18:57   all of the hassle out of switching from your current provider, they just take the information

00:19:01   that you need for that they need for your previous provider's DNS stuff and they'll just move it all

00:19:07   over for you for free. You don't have to worry about it. You have 200 domains with a competitor,

00:19:12   they'll just take them and move them into Hover. I love Hover and I think you will too.

00:19:17   And they're a great supporter of this show and many podcasts. So you should be going

00:19:21   to Hover.com right now and trying them out. And you want to use the code "brainball" all

00:19:26   one word at checkout. And you'll get 10% off your first purchase at Hover.com and show

00:19:34   your support for Upgrade and all of Real AFM. That's Brainball at checkout. Thank you to

00:19:39   Hover for sponsoring this episode.

00:19:42   And please visit my new website, brainball.bears.

00:19:48   I now need to know dot bears TLD. Is it happening or is there one?

00:19:55   Seems unlikely. Although, it's just start plumbing. Once bears get on the internet,

00:20:01   the jig is up. It's over.

00:20:03   It's incredible that .app hasn't gone through yet. It's like it's ready for pre-registration,

00:20:09   but like you think about some of the ones that have got through, like .diamonds.

00:20:13   .xyz, .diamonds.

00:20:14   .xyz is just like a whatever kind of domain, you know? But like things like .diamonds,

00:20:21   why does that exist? Why is that here?

00:20:24   I had this thought, which is at some point shouldn't big internet companies just get

00:20:28   their own TLDs. And I realize that on one level that way lies madness, but on another

00:20:33   level is it, if everybody is whatever.tumblr.com, at some point isn't it better if there's just

00:20:39   dot Tumblr? Or isn't it better if there's dot Google?

00:20:43   That makes a lot of sense, like dot Facebook.

00:20:46   Yeah, I mean maybe at some point that's worth it. Or if there's no dot FB country, maybe

00:20:51   Facebook should just be dot FB and they could, I don't know. I mean, at this point the domain

00:20:56   system is so ridiculous that why not? Why not let, and like I said Tumblr was my example,

00:21:02   why not let Tumblr just own control dot Tumblr and everybody who uses it can just say you

00:21:08   can find me at brainball dot tumblr.

00:21:11   I think that that is genius. Like I don't know why that hasn't been done before the

00:21:16   madness that we currently have because clearly there's no restrictions anymore. Like okay

00:21:20   there is like a council but...

00:21:22   Well, and somebody's got to pay to administer that TLD and that there is cost there because

00:21:26   they have to have the servers that are looking up all of the domains in that TLD, but a big

00:21:32   company can afford that.

00:21:34   Yes, definitely. I mean, especially when there are special deals that happen, right? So like

00:21:39   T.co, that was arranged before the .co domains went on sale, the Twitter links. So they were

00:21:46   able to get that. And also, you know, like single letter domain names, I don't really

00:21:50   think they exist, right? Like te.co. I don't know any other websites that have just like

00:21:56   a single letter.

00:21:58   I think you can do that. I think that's like essentially up to the government of Columbia

00:22:02   wants to allow a single letter domain, they can do that.

00:22:06   Yeah, my understanding is that was arranged before the sale.

00:22:09   The fix was in.

00:22:11   So you can, there's some interesting stuff that could be done and I think that's a smart

00:22:17   We should write to ICANN immediately.

00:22:20   -Yes. Our friends. -At ICANN.

00:22:24   -Yeah. Not sponsoring the show.

00:22:26   I have 16 domains at Hover, by the way.

00:22:28   -It's quite a lot. -16 at Hover.

00:22:30   -How many of them are, like, sensible domains that are in use?

00:22:35   -Uh...

00:22:37   Fewer than that. -Yeah.

00:22:39   -I don't -- I don't have the list in front of me.

00:22:44   Many of them were from my six-color speculation period,

00:22:47   So I have, you know, bleed6.com and I have jsnell.net.

00:22:52   I have, you know, six-colors.com and six-colors.me

00:22:57   and six-colors.org and, you know.

00:23:00   - I have 25 domains with Hover.

00:23:03   I have some interesting ones in here.

00:23:05   Would you like to know any of them?

00:23:08   - Sure.

00:23:11   - I have apppreviews.net.

00:23:13   I got one and I got that.

00:23:16   That's a lot of Ps. It is, yeah. It's app with three Ps and then reviews, which doesn't

00:23:22   scan very well. I have internationalexports.co, which is a James Bond joke. I have podcasts.expert.

00:23:31   Ooh. Yep. I have podcasts.wtf. That just redirects to Bonanza, right? Well, I mean, I could sell

00:23:41   that to Mark Maron. That's true. I think those two, I think Marco sent me

00:23:47   iMessages one day and was like "you should buy these!" So I was like "okay" so I did.

00:23:50   Yes Marco. I have thecircuitry.com because I think that was an idea

00:23:57   for a show name that I had. I also have varietyhour.net which I quite like.

00:24:02   One day I will make a podcast called The Variety Hour and that will

00:24:07   take that domain. So there you go, that's a small selection of the weird and

00:24:10   wonderful domains that I have that none of them are used.

00:24:13   - I have two domains that are for novels that I've written

00:24:15   but haven't published.

00:24:16   Just parked.

00:24:18   - Dot com. - So yeah.

00:24:21   - Just parked dot com.

00:24:22   - No, that's not it.

00:24:23   One of them is a dot US, but that's for specific reasons.

00:24:30   - USA, USA.

00:24:31   - USA, all right, more feedback.

00:24:35   Listener Myke talking about commenting,

00:24:38   He said, "Comment systems are like sports talk radio

00:24:42   and sites without comments are like NPR radio."

00:24:44   So that's just a shot at comments basically,

00:24:47   but I thought it was funny because of this.

00:24:49   Some people really like listening to Colin radio shows

00:24:54   and I don't.

00:24:57   And anytime I'm watching a TV show

00:24:59   and I don't watch as much TV as I used to,

00:25:01   but when I would watch flip around the dial

00:25:04   and then you watch a show and there'd be

00:25:05   an interesting interview and then the host would say,

00:25:07   "All right, we're gonna take some calls now."

00:25:09   I'd be like, "Okay, moving on, not gonna watch.

00:25:12   I don't wanna hear your calls.

00:25:13   I just, I don't wanna hear your calls."

00:25:15   It's just something about it.

00:25:16   It's like, that's not why I tuned into that show.

00:25:18   I tuned into that show for a professional interviewer

00:25:21   to have an interesting conversation with somebody,

00:25:22   and now we're gonna have the calls.

00:25:25   And I guess that you could say that

00:25:27   that makes me an awful elitist person

00:25:29   because I don't wanna hear from the people.

00:25:31   But the fact is with social media,

00:25:32   we can hear from the people.

00:25:33   It's just, my point is that I think

00:25:35   the professional interviewer probably has,

00:25:37   understands the technology of his show

00:25:40   and what questions have already been asked

00:25:42   and what questions the guest is not gonna answer

00:25:44   and maybe do a better job of interviewing that person

00:25:47   than the people on the phone.

00:25:48   And so I'd rather keep that job be that person's job

00:25:53   and then let people have their opinions over

00:25:55   in another place.

00:25:56   But some people love it.

00:25:57   Some people love sports talk radio.

00:25:58   It just drives me crazy.

00:25:59   I can't listen to it.

00:26:01   - Well, we have Dave from Cincinnati on the line, Jason.

00:26:04   He's gonna let you know what he thinks.

00:26:06   - Dave, is the collar there?

00:26:08   You're on the air.

00:26:09   - Oh, he's dropped off.

00:26:10   - And we dropped the line.

00:26:11   - You dropped the line unfortunately.

00:26:12   - Sir, turn your podcast radio down.

00:26:16   We can't, the feedback is awful.

00:26:17   Turn the live stream down before you, anyway.

00:26:21   Lister Pascal, I believe his name was,

00:26:25   had lots of Apple logos in it, but I think it's Pascal,

00:26:28   said in Canada, as soon as Halloween is over,

00:26:32   you get Christmas ads and stores start selling Christmas stuff.

00:26:35   And I just wanted to mention this,

00:26:36   is this furthers my theory of the Thanksgiving firewall.

00:26:40   Because in Canada, Thanksgiving happens before Halloween.

00:26:43   So Halloween is the last holiday before Christmas.

00:26:46   And once Halloween is done, in comes the Christmas stuff.

00:26:49   Whereas in the US, it really is--

00:26:51   I mean, it's not.

00:26:52   There are people doing it who jump the gun.

00:26:54   But there's-- generally, I think it's accepted.

00:26:56   Everybody on my block put up their holiday lights

00:27:00   on Thanksgiving night or the day after.

00:27:02   That was the official start of it.

00:27:04   So in Canada, you get a longer Christmas season

00:27:06   because your Thanksgiving is in the middle of like May.

00:27:10   So yeah, I know it's in October.

00:27:12   I was there, I was there.

00:27:13   I was in Canada for Canadian Thanksgiving.

00:27:15   I got two Thanksgivings this year.

00:27:17   Although one of them wasn't that exciting

00:27:18   'cause I just went to the airport and flew home.

00:27:21   - Oh. - Yeah.

00:27:22   - That's not exciting at all, is it?

00:27:24   - No, I should have had turkey somewhere if I had known.

00:27:26   If I had known that I was gonna be in Canada

00:27:28   on Canadian Thanksgiving,

00:27:29   I would have stayed an extra day and had a Canadian Thanksgiving feast because that would

00:27:33   be how cool would it be to have two Thanksgivings? You had none. I would have had two.

00:27:37   Oh, I had one. Did I tell you about this?

00:27:40   Oh, I saw it. So yes. Oh, now I'm way too excited for this. But yes, you went, you tweeted

00:27:46   like a picture of a drink that was served in a cup that looked like a turkey leg.

00:27:49   Uh huh. I did. I sure did. So this is very peculiar. So I met some friends. We went and

00:27:56   had our beards groomed before a weekend away.

00:28:01   Beards.groom.

00:28:03   That could be a domain.

00:28:04   I just came back--

00:28:05   Grooming.beard?

00:28:07   I don't know.

00:28:07   I just came back from a grooming.bear.

00:28:10   I just came back from a stag weekend, like a bachelor party

00:28:14   for a weekend.

00:28:15   And a few of us went to have our beards groomed prior.

00:28:20   So I had a Thanksgiving dinner at a American restaurant,

00:28:25   which we didn't know was happening.

00:28:29   We were going to this place,

00:28:29   it sold like ribs and stuff like that.

00:28:31   So we're gonna go there, we arrived,

00:28:32   and so we got a set menu today, and it's Thanksgiving.

00:28:36   So basically, would you like to know what I had?

00:28:41   'Cause I took a photo of the menu.

00:28:44   I had pumpkin and squash soup to start.

00:28:48   - Valid.

00:28:49   I had farm pit smoked turkey.

00:28:53   - Okay, smoked turkey.

00:28:56   - Which is great.

00:28:57   - That is absolutely legitimate.

00:28:59   - Brown sugar and bourbon candied sweet potatoes.

00:29:03   - All right, that's what we said.

00:29:04   That's your sweet potato dish, absolutely.

00:29:09   - Amazing.

00:29:10   Loved it.

00:29:12   Creamed spinach.

00:29:12   Roast garlic, dirty mash.

00:29:16   I don't know why it's called dirty mash.

00:29:18   homemade cranberry sauce, and a fresh baked pumpkin pie for dessert, and it was one of

00:29:25   the greatest meals I've ever had. I can see why everyone is so excited about Thanksgiving.

00:29:32   And I will put a couple of photos of my Thanksgiving meal into the show notes for people, including

00:29:38   the turkey leg cocktail drink.

00:29:40   I'm so proud of you. You did it. You did it. You had American Thanksgiving. No, we were

00:29:46   I was looking at those pictures actually, I think, as I was making the Thanksgiving

00:29:51   dinner here. And you know, we were working the night before we cooked some stuff. I had

00:29:56   to brine the turkey, so I did all that the night before, and the turkey sits in a five-gallon

00:30:00   bucket in the corner of my garage for overnight, soaking in this giant, you know, vat of brine.

00:30:07   And then, you know, on the day, I mean, we made, we had cranberry sauce, we made, we

00:30:11   roasted the turkey, we had a cornbread, cornbread dressing, which is sort of like a stuffing

00:30:16   but you don't put it in the bird, you cook it separately in a cast iron skillet.

00:30:20   We had the mashed potatoes, we had brussels sprouts, this really great balsamic roasted

00:30:28   brussels sprouts dish that was, they were gone, they were completely gone, they were

00:30:34   demolished.

00:30:35   Some rolls, because my son demanded rolls, a sweet potato and cranberry casserole that

00:30:44   was really popular.

00:30:45   Yeah, it was great, but that's the kind of stuff.

00:30:47   So, and it's fun to do that.

00:30:49   We don't, you know, we don't have a feast like that that often.

00:30:52   That's the sort of thing, unless you have servants who are making something for you.

00:30:56   It's quite a thing.

00:30:57   It's quite a treat to have something with that many dishes and we have like 11 people.

00:31:01   So I'm glad you got to experience it a little bit.

00:31:04   I might try and do it next year because I enjoyed it immensely.

00:31:08   That's good.

00:31:09   Now you described the place you went as an American restaurant.

00:31:13   Is that a thing?

00:31:14   Yes.

00:31:15   What's it called?

00:31:19   This place was I think was called the Big Easy.

00:31:21   All right.

00:31:22   Yep, the Big Easy.

00:31:25   And there are other places.

00:31:26   I mean, yeah, we have chain restaurants, right?

00:31:28   So we have like TGI Fridays, which is considered to be a American restaurant, right?

00:31:35   Because for you guys, it's just like, whatever, but...

00:31:38   It's right.

00:31:39   Yeah, that's true.

00:31:40   No, you're right.

00:31:41   to have that idea that somebody is in another country is eating a, you know, a menu from

00:31:48   a menu that is supposedly representative of your country's food. It's just kind of funny.

00:31:54   I, you know, the Chinese feel this way all the time. So I now know how they feel. That's

00:32:02   just fascinating. That's fascinating. I should go to an American restaurant sometime. You should.

00:32:06   I recommend them, especially at Thanksgiving.

00:32:09   Okay, good to know.

00:32:11   Were there Americans there?

00:32:13   Were there Americans participating

00:32:16   in a far off Thanksgiving?

00:32:18   Yeah, there were lots of Americans there.

00:32:19   I think that's the reason that most of these places do that,

00:32:23   is to cater for Americans in London

00:32:25   who would like a Thanksgiving meal,

00:32:28   who don't want to kind of cook for themselves or whatever,

00:32:35   'cause it might just be for two people or something.

00:32:38   - All right, that's good to know.

00:32:41   Thank you for that Thanksgiving update.

00:32:43   That was our Thanksgiving vertical.

00:32:44   We'll retire it for a year, but it'll be back.

00:32:47   Canadians, it'll be back even sooner than you expect.

00:32:50   One last, as we're still in the follow-up,

00:32:52   one last piece of follow-up, this is worse than ATP now.

00:32:55   Lister Gary, this is just a quick one I made in a site

00:32:57   about the Farmcast podcast about farming.

00:33:00   He said, "I worked for a web host in the early '90s

00:33:02   that contracted for Meredith Publishing.

00:33:06   They did market research at the time

00:33:08   to choose which of their magazines to put on the web first

00:33:10   and agriculture.com won out.

00:33:13   I've got friends that write APIs for tractors.

00:33:16   So a farm cast could get a lot more nerdy than you think.

00:33:19   Imagine plant and analyze,

00:33:21   and you're right in the ballpark.

00:33:22   (laughing)

00:33:25   So there's a farm cast update from listener Gary.

00:33:28   Plant and analyze.

00:33:29   - Plant and analyze.

00:33:31   - Yeah, yeah.

00:33:32   New podcast, niche podcast networks,

00:33:35   farming vertical, I'm telling you.

00:33:37   There's something, and if, I wasn't dissing the Farmcast.

00:33:40   I, like I said, I grew up on 50 acres

00:33:43   and we had cows and horses and a pig at one point

00:33:47   and chickens and I am from the rural parts.

00:33:52   So I am not dissing the Farmcast.

00:33:55   I just think, thought that was a funny combination

00:33:58   of farming and podcasts.

00:34:00   'cause I wasn't thinking about that before.

00:34:03   That's it, that's the followup, we're done.

00:34:05   Should we sign off now, Myke?

00:34:06   - Yep, see you later.

00:34:07   (laughing)

00:34:10   - What else should we talk about?

00:34:13   - So, I apologize to the person

00:34:18   who said we were navel-gazy

00:34:20   because we're gonna talk about podcasts again.

00:34:22   - Just a little bit.

00:34:24   - This is something that is becoming,

00:34:27   Okay, so the joke at the moment is podcasts are alive,

00:34:32   having been dead, right?

00:34:33   That's the current joke.

00:34:34   And I can see why this joke is happening,

00:34:40   because there are lots of articles being written,

00:34:45   and new podcasts occurring,

00:34:48   and it's popping up all over the place in mainstream media

00:34:51   and that kind of thing, right?

00:34:52   But it is very interesting right now

00:34:54   to look at what's going on.

00:34:56   and I'm reminded of when Twitter was becoming popular.

00:35:00   And all of the tech podcasts that I listened to

00:35:03   only spoke about Twitter,

00:35:04   it was all there was to talk about.

00:35:06   It was just a hot button topic at the moment.

00:35:10   Unfortunately, to everybody listening to podcasts,

00:35:14   the current hot topic is podcasting.

00:35:16   - Podcasts.

00:35:17   - And the thing is,

00:35:19   and the problem is for the majority of our listeners

00:35:21   and for us, the people making them,

00:35:24   We've been doing it for years

00:35:26   and now the conversation is happening.

00:35:28   But there are things to say, we have things to say.

00:35:32   There is a conversation which I think requires,

00:35:36   not requires, but cause for some intervention,

00:35:39   especially from people that are making them,

00:35:42   you know, like myself and Jason.

00:35:44   So we're gonna talk about it again

00:35:46   and I'm sure we'll talk about it again

00:35:47   on a future episode.

00:35:49   - Yeah, but I would say,

00:35:50   and we may get to some other stuff later,

00:35:53   I would say we're well aware of the fact that this is podcasters talking about podcasting

00:35:56   and we'll try to keep it as light as possible.

00:36:01   Also keeping in mind kind of a slow news period other than unless we wanted to do a whole

00:36:06   podcast about what sales are out there right now.

00:36:09   And this is a thing that people were talking about way more than I expected.

00:36:15   And so I think we should talk about it at least a little bit.

00:36:17   There's a great summation that we'll put in the show notes that's by Alvaro Serrano.

00:36:22   I'm sorry if I mispronounced your name there,

00:36:24   but analogsenses.com,

00:36:26   that he wrote the ultimate guide to podcasting guides,

00:36:29   where he links to all of the different articles

00:36:31   that have been written on this subject.

00:36:32   - That's perfect.

00:36:33   - That was a very helpful thing.

00:36:35   So I feel like I definitely had a part in starting this

00:36:40   because what happened was on Thanksgiving,

00:36:42   Amazon did a gold box deal.

00:36:44   So a limited time deal on the Yeti,

00:36:48   which is the microphone I've been using

00:36:49   for about two years now to do all of my podcasting.

00:36:52   And it was 79 bucks.

00:36:53   And for a long time, I've just said,

00:36:55   "Look, I think this is a really great combination

00:36:59   "of quality for value."

00:37:00   That it's not as cheap as some other microphones,

00:37:03   but it has some advantages.

00:37:04   It sounds better than like the blue snowball.

00:37:06   It's got a hardware mute button.

00:37:09   It's got a hardware volume button,

00:37:10   and it's got a headphone jack.

00:37:12   And that is a big deal because then you can hear yourself

00:37:15   and you know when you sound bad,

00:37:17   which I think actually is a huge contributor

00:37:19   to people making better sounding podcasts,

00:37:22   is hearing their own voice while they're recording

00:37:25   and realize, oh, I'm not facing toward the microphone

00:37:27   or there's a terrible sound behind me

00:37:29   that I need to shut down in some way

00:37:31   so that people can't hear that

00:37:33   or I need to reposition my microphone.

00:37:35   And the Yeti has all of those things.

00:37:36   - The Yeti has these other settings

00:37:38   in which you can record in multiple different environments.

00:37:42   - Right, it's got a two across

00:37:44   so that you can have two people

00:37:45   on either side of the microphone

00:37:46   and record a conversation.

00:37:47   It's got a omni-directional.

00:37:50   Yeah, it's, again, it's not the best microphone

00:37:54   that's out there by a long shot, but it's not bad.

00:37:57   And certainly two years ago,

00:38:01   when I was shopping for microphones,

00:38:02   I thought it was the best combination I've had since,

00:38:05   and this was part of the conversation.

00:38:07   A couple of people point out that there are,

00:38:09   in particular, there was a dynamic microphone,

00:38:12   which is the kind that I think the pros generally prefer

00:38:14   because dynamic microphones pick up less background noise.

00:38:18   There's a dynamic microphone from Audio Technica, I think,

00:38:21   that's like 59 bucks and it's a USB microphone

00:38:24   and it's got a headphone jack and I haven't tried it,

00:38:29   but it comes recommended by some really smart people

00:38:34   and that might be a perfectly,

00:38:36   that might be the best entry-level high quality microphone

00:38:39   now and not the Yeti.

00:38:41   But the reason that I kind of got mad on Thanksgiving night,

00:38:45   I posted this deal and then I had a bunch of people say,

00:38:49   I don't consider that an acceptable microphone.

00:38:52   (laughs)

00:38:53   And some of it was,

00:38:55   I don't consider that a microphone for professionals,

00:38:58   which bugged me because what they're really saying there is,

00:39:02   well, first off, I didn't say it was for professionals.

00:39:04   In fact, recommending a $79 microphone is perhaps in itself,

00:39:09   not a recommendation for professionals.

00:39:12   I was really thinking of people who want to get a better microphone than they've got,

00:39:16   but are never going to spend more than $100.

00:39:18   So it kind of bugged me that people come out of the woodwork to point out, "Well, that

00:39:22   microphone's fine, but it's not a professional microphone.

00:39:25   You shouldn't really use it for that."

00:39:26   And two, it bugs me because I've used this microphone for two years.

00:39:31   I take pride in the sound quality of my podcast.

00:39:35   It is absolutely good enough to be used professionally.

00:39:39   Now it may not be the best microphone for a professional, and I could certainly upgrade

00:39:43   my podcast gear, and I may in fact do that soon, but to say that it's not possible to

00:39:48   use it and that somebody who's doing even professional level stuff just shouldn't ever

00:39:52   bother is, I mean, it's provably wrong.

00:39:54   I'm doing professional podcasting with it.

00:39:56   So that set me on my rant that I've had, I've done that rant before.

00:40:02   There was a time, and he doesn't say this anymore, but there was a time when anytime

00:40:05   people talked about microphones, Dan Benjamin would say, "You can't do a podcast without

00:40:08   dynamic mic and at the time that meant spending $250 and that always bugged the

00:40:12   crap out of me because that you know I was speaking at a sci-fi convention a

00:40:18   couple years ago and I mentioned the Blue Snowball for $50 and people were

00:40:22   horrified. I was like oh my god these people don't even want to spend $50 on a

00:40:26   microphone they want to use their earbuds or they want to use turns out

00:40:30   this is actually a really good tip they want to plug in their rock band

00:40:33   microphone that's actually not a bad idea that it would be better than

00:40:37   nothing. And I had a couple people say, "You know, I do a podcast with a rock band microphone

00:40:43   that sounds okay." I'm like, "All right, that's interesting." Or a headset mic. And that was

00:40:48   -- my point was, I feel like audio is so intimidating already. And having people in -- who are already

00:40:55   doing podcasting say, you know, really, unless you're willing to spend a lot of money on

00:41:00   all of this fiddly hardware stuff that you don't even understand right now, you shouldn't

00:41:04   even bother. It's just erecting more barriers to people coming into the medium, and I'm

00:41:08   sensitive to that, because I feel like this is a medium that's really young, that it needs

00:41:11   more voices, and that I think it's a danger when we start talking about all the podcasts

00:41:16   end up being from people who are professional stand-up comedians or NPR personalities, or

00:41:21   other broadcast personalities, and not interesting people from other places. And as somebody

00:41:27   who started doing podcasting regularly four years ago, I don't want to be one of those

00:41:31   people who says, "Well, now that I'm here, let's shut the door and not let anyone else

00:41:35   in." I love the fact that this is a really democratic medium and that somebody who's

00:41:40   got something interesting to say should be able to say it. Now, there were a lot of posts

00:41:44   about this. I don't want to be misunderstood as saying, "It doesn't matter if your podcast

00:41:48   sounds crappy." It totally matters. I've turned off podcasts from really good professional

00:41:53   people in their line of work because the sound was awful. There was one in particular that

00:41:57   it was like a guy in an echoey room, like in an echo chamber, talking on a speakerphone

00:42:03   to somebody somewhere else on a really bad telephone line.

00:42:06   It's like, I can't listen to this.

00:42:08   It's terrible.

00:42:09   But what I am saying is, I don't want the insistence on audio quality to be such a barrier

00:42:15   that people just say, "Look, I'm not going to bother.

00:42:17   I'm too intimidated by all the technical things that go into a podcast."

00:42:21   I figure if you dive in, you'll learn and as you go, you will be, if you truly love

00:42:27   it and want to do it. You will be dissatisfied if it doesn't sound good and you will work

00:42:30   to make it sound better and you'll learn. And that the net effect of people saying,

00:42:35   you know, don't, you know, don't do a podcast unless you've got hundreds of dollars worth

00:42:41   of equipment is to turn people off from starting. And I don't like that because this is the

00:42:47   kind of medium that we should be letting it be, letting people get in fairly easily. And

00:42:52   then, yeah, some of them it'll sound bad or they won't really be committed and they'll

00:42:55   give up but what I don't want is somebody who's really got something great to say, to

00:42:59   say I'm not going to bother saying it because I'm not going to spend hours and hours and

00:43:03   hundreds of dollars making this setup.

00:43:06   Because then you fall into that audio file trap where you're like, you've spent a lot

00:43:09   of money, or a computer person can do this too, spend a lot of money on equipment and

00:43:12   then don't have anything to say.

00:43:14   I think that's backward.

00:43:15   Do it the other way.

00:43:16   I might use the Yeti for years.

00:43:19   And I recommend it, not because it's the best microphone, but I think that it gives you

00:43:24   more than anything else does at that price range. And I recommend it because

00:43:30   it's one that I've used. I've not used all of the others. I mean I'm the same

00:43:34   as you. Whenever I see that Amazon flash sale for 70 bucks, which they do

00:43:38   every few months for the Yeti, I always make sure that I tell people about it.

00:43:44   Because if you're even mildly interested you should just drop those $70 and keep

00:43:48   it and then use it for another day you know like I have a bunch of people like

00:43:55   that friends like bloggers and stuff who I've recommended to buy it because if

00:43:58   you ever get invited onto a show it's really great to have it rather than like

00:44:04   using the Apple earpods or something which right exactly which I you know if

00:44:10   I call someone on inquisitive and they don't have a mic then I tell them to just

00:44:14   plug that in because I mean you know and there are many people that will tell you

00:44:17   that you should write ahead and you should ask them to get it. I don't do that because

00:44:22   I don't think that's fair to say. Would you like to take an hour out of your day for free

00:44:27   to be on my show? Oh, and by the way, could you spend $150 on a microphone?

00:44:34   Well, ideally you'd eventually have a budget where you'd have like a bunch of microphones

00:44:37   that would just be shipped in advance and then with return postage and they would take

00:44:41   it out of the box and plug it in and all that, but that's ridiculous and nobody's gonna do

00:44:45   that.

00:44:46   that but that I don't know even then that seems interesting. Over the course of time as we were

00:44:52   doing the incomparable we everybody started to upgrade their equipment a lot of people got yetis

00:44:58   but I've still got a couple panelists who use headset mics and they don't I can tell

00:45:02   but they sound okay and you know it's I don't know again if you're somebody who's doing this for a

00:45:10   living and you're concerned about audio quality yes you could probably invest in higher quality

00:45:16   gear. But, you know, I just my bigger my bigger point was just like it's so easy to mystify things

00:45:21   like tech people, right? We deal with people who are afraid of computer stuff, right? Our

00:45:27   relatives, our parents are like, Oh, I don't know how to get that to work. I don't know why the

00:45:31   printer is doing this. And you realize that, you know, we know all the secret stuff and it's super

00:45:35   intimidating to them. Anytime audio is a really weird technical area. And I mean, some of that

00:45:44   stuff really intimidates me. I'm still trying to get a lot better at it and learn a lot of stuff

00:45:48   about EQ and compression and stuff like that. But I just feel like to get a wider range of voices,

00:45:56   you want to encourage people to try and the technical jargon and barriers scares people.

00:46:04   And that was really my only point. I think you should take pride in what you create. And I think

00:46:08   think that if somebody gets into podcasting and really loves it and has no budget, then

00:46:14   when they started, then as they go, they're going to be like, "Oh, how do I make this

00:46:17   better?" and they're going to work on that.

00:46:19   But I don't think, you know, I think we need to be wary that we're creating a, you know,

00:46:26   a bunch of people in white lab coats who were saying, "Sorry, you don't pass the test.

00:46:30   You can't come in."

00:46:31   Because that's the part that concerns me.

00:46:33   And it's true.

00:46:34   It actually, one of the great things about this is like Dan Benjamin now recommends

00:46:38   an $80 microphone as a starter microphone.

00:46:41   And he recommends a different one from the Yeti

00:46:45   and a different one from the Condenser, or from the Dynamic. His is actually a

00:46:48   Condenser which is

00:46:49   a sign of change in Dan's view of this.

00:46:53   I would say, because he was always very negative about condensers when I would

00:46:56   talk to him about it.

00:46:57   But the fact that those microphones are down in price to like an $80 one and a

00:47:02   $50 one, that's great because that means that one of the barriers here, which was

00:47:07   you really can't buy a good microphone for less than 50 or $100, has changed. And

00:47:12   that's great because now, yes, now you can buy a good microphone. That

00:47:15   said, if you buy a good microphone and you don't have good microphone technique

00:47:18   and you're in an echoey room, it's gonna sound bad anyway. So there's so many

00:47:23   different things about making podcasts sound good. But my point is, if you really

00:47:27   love it and you care about it, you should do it. And then as you go, you will learn

00:47:31   and how to make it better.

00:47:33   - Yeah, yeah.

00:47:35   - That's my thing.

00:47:37   And definitely the Analog Census post is worth looking at

00:47:40   if you're interested in this subject,

00:47:41   because it's got links to all of the stuff.

00:47:44   And I feel like sort of everybody was in violent agreement.

00:47:47   Everybody's got their own particular acts to grind here.

00:47:49   Like Marco Armenta is very much like,

00:47:52   look, you can do good sound quality.

00:47:54   You should do good sound quality.

00:47:55   Even on the cheap, you can make your podcast sound better.

00:47:58   And he's totally right.

00:47:59   I don't dispute that at all.

00:48:01   He's absolutely right.

00:48:03   So I think it was all okay in the end,

00:48:06   but that was the thing that set me off,

00:48:10   was I feel like you get professional podcasters

00:48:13   who are basically trying to close the doors

00:48:15   and say, "Don't come in, anybody else.

00:48:17   "You're not qualified to do this."

00:48:19   And that drives me crazy because it's a little,

00:48:23   we all started this recently too.

00:48:27   Even the people who've been doing podcasting the longest

00:48:29   haven't been doing it that long.

00:48:31   So maybe we should welcome other voices

00:48:33   and not try to close them off artificially.

00:48:36   So that was my point.

00:48:38   Ah, should we talk about a friend now?

00:48:45   - Yeah, let's do that.

00:48:46   - What friends should we talk about now, Myke?

00:48:48   - Jason, why don't you tell me a little bit about mail route?

00:48:51   - Mail route, all right.

00:48:53   I love these guys, they are a friend.

00:48:55   Mail route helps me with my mail every single day.

00:48:58   So Myke, I want you to picture,

00:49:00   We're gonna do some visualization exercises here.

00:49:02   I want you to picture a world without spam or viruses

00:49:07   or bounced email.

00:49:08   - How lovely it is.

00:49:09   - Is that nice?

00:49:10   Does that give you a warm feeling?

00:49:11   - This is such a nice place over here.

00:49:12   - Imagine opening your email and seeing only

00:49:15   the legitimate email that you want and need to receive

00:49:18   and not any other junk cluttering your inbox.

00:49:20   - Oh, hello legitimate email.

00:49:21   - Yes, exactly.

00:49:23   Ahoy email.

00:49:24   Well, mail route can make this a daily reality

00:49:28   and does for me, no more spam.

00:49:30   And the beauty of how MailRoute works is you don't have to install any hardware or software.

00:49:35   MailRoute does it all.

00:49:36   What it does is it sits between you and your email

00:49:39   and sorts it itself and delivers only clean email to your inbox.

00:49:45   Now it's easy to set up. I set it up in a matter of, I think, 10 minutes.

00:49:49   It's reliable. I've never had a problem with MailRoute in the year, year and a half I've been using it.

00:49:54   Maybe two years now. Wow.

00:49:56   And it is trusted by the largest universities and corporations.

00:49:59   If you're a regular old user,

00:50:02   you'll find that the interface is super simple and effective.

00:50:04   There's a great web interface.

00:50:05   There's an email that they can send you

00:50:07   with what got filtered out.

00:50:08   One click to whitelist it, one click to deliver it.

00:50:11   But I get so few false negatives

00:50:14   that that email is more of a formality now

00:50:16   than anything else.

00:50:18   If you are an administrator or an IT professional

00:50:20   thinking about using mail route for your organization,

00:50:24   they've got all the tools for you.

00:50:25   They've got an API for easy account management.

00:50:29   support LDAP, Active Directory, TLS, mail bagging. I don't even know what mail bagging is. It

00:50:33   terrifies me, but they support it. I'm so glad they do because I'm all about mail bagging.

00:50:38   And well, actually, this is the next thing they support is going to be one of your favorites.

00:50:41   They support outbound relay. That's a good word. Everything you'd want from the people handling

00:50:49   your mail if you are an admin or IT professional. But if you're a regular person like me,

00:50:53   works great too, super simple web interface. So remove spam from your life for good with

00:50:59   MailRoute. Go to mailroute.net/upgrade, easy to remember, for a free trial and 10% off

00:51:09   for the lifetime of your account. And thank you so much to MailRoute for sponsoring upgrade

00:51:15   and for filtering all the spam out of my email. Thanks MailRoute.

00:51:19   Seems like the perfect time of year to be thinking about email spam because we're already

00:51:23   getting so much email we don't want this time of year. So much. It's nice to know that

00:51:29   there are people out there that can help you at least reduce some of that.

00:51:35   Thank you, Mayor out. Thank you. Being a friend to my inbox. So we've been going a

00:51:41   long time. I feel like maybe we should just jump to some listener Q&A. Before

00:51:46   the show you announced on Twitter that we were running light on topics,

00:51:50   which ironically now we could have done two hours without this, but we're gonna

00:51:53   push some topics to next week and instead we're gonna enter the lightning round!

00:51:57   I wish I had a sound effect for you. Okay there we go we got one.

00:52:02   I'll do all the sound effects.

00:52:04   It seems like, Jason, there are lots of things that people want us to talk about.

00:52:08   Indeed.

00:52:09   And it's good because you know you were mentioning like when we talk about the podcast stuff

00:52:13   it is that time of year, it is the quiet time of year, so maybe this is a time when we should

00:52:19   fall back to what actually, funnily enough,

00:52:21   what actually people want to hear us talk about,

00:52:24   which is an interesting sentence.

00:52:25   Whilst I was putting these together

00:52:28   and I was using the official Twitter for Mac client

00:52:32   to drag and drop the tweets that they embedded

00:52:35   quite nicely in our Google Drive app,

00:52:37   which was a tip I got from you,

00:52:39   I did think to myself, is there a way,

00:52:42   is there a better way to try and get these kind of questions

00:52:46   coming through on a more regular basis?

00:52:48   I don't know. So again, another question for the audience. I know some people use like

00:52:52   subreddits and stuff like that, which I haven't looked into.

00:52:57   It's kind of scary.

00:52:58   Yeah, I'm not really a Reddit user at all. It's something I've never really gotten into.

00:53:04   I feel like I would probably lose all of my productivity being on Reddit.

00:53:09   Well, that's a good piece of feedback for people out there. What would be a good way

00:53:12   for us to have a kind of like a flood of topic suggestions on maybe the morning that we're

00:53:18   doing the podcast. Is Twitter the best way or is there some other way to generate, you

00:53:24   know, a form? I mean we could do like a Google form or something, it's not that exciting

00:53:27   though. I don't know. Yeah, exactly. There are many options, I'd like to see what people

00:53:32   think. It might be something that we've never heard of. So the first question that we have,

00:53:36   these are all via Twitter so I will do my best to read Twitter names, this is @EdaRoss

00:53:41   or EDA Ross. He's interested in... his question was selling your advertising

00:53:48   space on sites and podcasts so I guess we've both started doing this.

00:53:53   It's not really a question, I guess let's talk about this. Also by the way one of the weaknesses of the

00:53:57   Twitter app for Mac is that it brings across their username but not their

00:54:01   actual name so then I have to double check and sort of enter in that it's

00:54:04   listener ed or whatever which you didn't do so we don't know who these people are

00:54:08   but that's okay. Selling your advertising space on your sites, podcasts, what do you

00:54:15   want to say about that, Myke?

00:54:17   So I think the interesting thing is how this has changed for me and how now I'm doing it

00:54:22   on my own. When I was a part of 5x5, it was a very nebulous process. The ads arrived in

00:54:29   the document, in the calendar, and then I went and found the ad scripts and I read them.

00:54:36   The interesting thing about this stuff for me now is I'm doing 100% of it.

00:54:40   So well, not 100%.

00:54:41   We do have the mid-roll helpers as well, which is some of our stuff.

00:54:45   But I do the vast majority, over three quarters, if not more of the ad sales for Relay FM at

00:54:51   the moment.

00:54:52   And it's an interesting process.

00:54:55   There are parts of it that I do really enjoy.

00:54:57   I do very much love the thrill of getting the sale.

00:55:01   is a great feel. To get off a call and you've just put

00:55:06   three months worth of sponsorships, that's a nice feeling.

00:55:10   And I also like knowing exactly where the money is coming from and where the

00:55:14   money is in the chain and then I can communicate that to you guys as well.

00:55:19   It's also interesting writing the ad copy myself and I like that a lot. I like

00:55:25   writing my own ad scripts or my own talking points because they're written

00:55:32   by me for my voice, which I quite like. I don't take like canned reads from

00:55:38   advertisers as it stands at the moment because I like to be able to put them in

00:55:43   my own voice because we go to companies that either I use or I believe in

00:55:47   or I think are really interesting so I want to say what I want to say about

00:55:51   them and that's why with the mail route ads we have Jason do those ones because

00:55:57   I don't use mail route but you do so it makes a lot more sense for that ad to

00:56:04   come from you because you are a customer. So we have a forthcoming sponsor that

00:56:07   only works in the US and so I'm going to do that ad too because you have no I may

00:56:12   quiz you again like we did with Thanksgiving but that's really I'm gonna

00:56:15   do that one because it makes sense like I can use that product and you can't.

00:56:18   Exactly. And so yeah, I like these sort of interesting different

00:56:25   things that I get to think about now, now that I do them myself. It does add a

00:56:29   level of stress, but that stress is always there and in a way I'm more happy

00:56:34   doing it myself because I have a control over the stress. Like for

00:56:38   example, we had some free months in December, a lot of bigger companies start

00:56:43   to look at their budgets for next year. People want to talk about next year now

00:56:46   rather than the next couple of weeks. So today I sent some emails to some smaller

00:56:52   companies that we that we work with and have been able to sell some spots on

00:56:55   that. You know, so it's like okay if I was just looking at that calendar I would be

00:57:00   getting a bit freaked out but because I am able to affect it I just sent some

00:57:05   emails out today. You know? I like that. I like that feeling. How about you? How are

00:57:10   you finding the sponsorships on Six Colors? I am I'm not a fan of sales

00:57:16   stuff because I come from this editorial background and I'm not a salesperson.

00:57:20   I don't want to be a salesperson. Six Colors has been so far a sales success

00:57:28   in that we sold out through all of 2014. Every week got sold and every week got

00:57:34   sold by people coming to me and saying I would like to sponsor your site.

00:57:39   That's a real tough sales challenge for me. I did have to set a rate

00:57:44   and I set a rate that I thought was optimistic and I managed to sell you

00:57:50   know every week out by quoting that rate to people and mostly they paid it you

00:57:55   know I did a couple of like bulk deals for people who bought multiple

00:57:59   weeks but in fact that business 101 I raised my rates because if I sold out at

00:58:06   that rate I should probably charge more and I got good feedback from people and

00:58:10   So that's fine, but what I've said several times

00:58:14   to people who've asked is, if it comes to the point

00:58:16   where I really need to beat the bushes

00:58:17   to get weekly sponsorships, I'm gonna find somebody

00:58:20   to sell the sponsorships for me,

00:58:22   'cause it's not worth it for me.

00:58:23   I do not wanna spend my time selling sponsorships.

00:58:25   It's just not, I have other things I would like to do

00:58:28   with my life then and create more stuff

00:58:31   and not sell sponsorships.

00:58:32   So if it comes to that point, I'll do what I do

00:58:34   for my other podcasts that are like the incomparable,

00:58:38   which is I've got somebody, in that case it has been Dan Benjamin and now it's going to

00:58:42   be the mid-roll. It was actually Dan and the mid-roll for a while, then it was just Dan

00:58:47   and a little bit from Oistas Tuyon and now it's going back to the mid-roll and they just

00:58:51   handle it and I don't have to worry about it. Some people like that. I don't deny the

00:58:57   fact that when I get the phone call from somebody who says we want to talk to you about sponsoring

00:59:01   Six Colors and we end up with an agreement to sponsor three or four weeks of Six Colors

00:59:07   in 2015 that I don't get that feeling of like "Yes!" afterward, but it's not for me. That's

00:59:15   not my thing. So I basically am relying on people coming to me and I love those people

00:59:21   who are approaching me about Six Colors and saying "We'd like to sponsor you." And then

00:59:26   otherwise I have other people selling the ads for me. And that's fine.

00:59:30   I hate sales.

00:59:32   I've always hated sales.

00:59:34   I used to be in a sales role for a while.

00:59:37   But I really don't feel like I have to sell this very hard.

00:59:42   All of the companies that I talk to,

00:59:45   they're very much, we wanna help support you,

00:59:47   we love what you do.

00:59:49   That's not a hard sell.

00:59:50   The hardest kind of thing that I have to do is,

00:59:54   would you like to buy an extra week?

00:59:56   Like that's kind of as hard as it gets.

00:59:59   I don't know if we're just lucky at this stage,

01:00:02   or maybe I'm not charging enough.

01:00:05   I'm very happy with the rates that we have right now.

01:00:10   If anybody cares, I'm currently making more money

01:00:12   than I've ever made.

01:00:14   I think that might make people happy to know that this

01:00:17   is going very successfully for us.

01:00:19   And I'm also not breaking the back of--

01:00:22   I'm not.

01:00:23   I'm sorry, Jason.

01:00:24   I'll give you more.

01:00:27   And I'm not breaking my back over it either.

01:00:29   So it's-- - That's good.

01:00:31   - I'm kind of happy with the way it's working.

01:00:33   - You're terrible at lightning rounds.

01:00:34   - Yeah, I know, right?

01:00:36   Okay, lightning round.

01:00:38   This is so lightning,

01:00:39   you don't even really get to answer this one.

01:00:42   This is from N. Beathy.

01:00:44   I'm really going with the Twitter names.

01:00:46   Not a tech topic.

01:00:47   I'm interested in hearing what you think

01:00:48   of the Star Wars teaser.

01:00:50   I've never heard Myke talk about Star Wars.

01:00:52   You're not allowed to answer this

01:00:53   because you've already done that.

01:00:55   That's the incomparable dot com slash 222. An excellent episode of The Incomparable

01:01:01   with you and John Siracusa and Dan Morin. I really enjoyed I say this to you

01:01:09   probably I enjoyed hearing John and Dan duel over Star Wars trivia like I know

01:01:15   more than you know I know more than you I know all about that I know what that

01:01:18   sound is. That may be the least that may be the least I've ever spoken in an

01:01:22   incomparable episode because those guys are just they were beside themselves about Star Wars.

01:01:26   There's one specific argument about the origin of a sound effect

01:01:31   which I was so entertained by but I'm very excited I am of course a Star Wars

01:01:38   fan I am not like devout I've seen all the movies I like the correct ones I've

01:01:46   never seen the D Specialized for example oh because I've never hunted it down

01:01:52   and also when I grew up there was no T Specialized Edition because I think

01:01:58   well I actually did see first see it on VHS tape but then kind of came into mind

01:02:04   with DVD copies was when I saw Star Wars the most. I don't necessarily like

01:02:11   the the prequels I don't hate them in the same way that some people do but I

01:02:18   definitely don't like them that makes sense like I'm not like I don't you know

01:02:22   begrudge people watching them but I'm very excited about the new Star Wars

01:02:27   stuff I am a big fan of JJ Abrams work I think the Star Trek series is fantastic

01:02:34   and I really enjoy those I love all these other stuff as well I'm very

01:02:38   excited I think that the broadsword lightsaber is awesome I'm one of those

01:02:43   people that look at that and I'm like that's really interesting I subscribe to

01:02:47   the exhaust theory that you have.

01:02:51   And I just think it looks really cool.

01:02:52   I look at that and I'm like, well, maybe this is a Sith

01:02:56   who's kind of doesn't really know what he's doing

01:02:59   and this is what he's stumbled upon

01:03:01   'cause he's in a forest, right?

01:03:03   I assume he's just been living in the forest for a while

01:03:05   and he's built a lightsaber out of wood or something

01:03:07   and it's not working very well. - Yeah, he's a hermit.

01:03:09   Hermit.

01:03:10   - So yes, I'm very excited and I love the fact now

01:03:13   that Disney owns them because I love the thought

01:03:16   of a Star Wars universe in the way that we have the Marvel universe.

01:03:20   Yeah, I agree. Good one. Good one.

01:03:24   And listen to the Incomparable 222 if you want to hear people talk for more than an hour,

01:03:28   about 80 seconds of trailer.

01:03:31   Jack Brister and Aaron Isaacs would both like recommendations on comics to read in Marvel Unlimited

01:03:37   because I think people are bringing this up because you just wrote a piece on six colors.

01:03:42   Yes.

01:03:43   Promoting the incredible sale.

01:03:45   - Yeah, as we record this, there's a 75 cent teaser sale

01:03:49   for one month of Marvel Unlimited.

01:03:51   And you're signing up so that, you know,

01:03:53   month two will be billed at 9.99

01:03:55   and it's, there's a, 'cause there's a $10 a month tier

01:03:57   and then you can also just buy a whole year for $70.

01:04:00   And I wrote, last week I wrote a kind of gift guide post

01:04:04   about Marvel Unlimited,

01:04:05   which I wholeheartedly endorse as a service.

01:04:08   Comics are expensive, new comics especially,

01:04:10   but even used, you know, not used,

01:04:12   old digital comics are still a couple dollars each.

01:04:15   And Marvel Unlimited, if you like Marvel Comics,

01:04:18   it's access to just a huge number of Marvel Comics

01:04:23   from their history and from the recent past,

01:04:26   not the ones that are for sale this month,

01:04:28   but like Netflix, it's stuff that's been out

01:04:31   for a little while.

01:04:32   And I can read one storyline in a day or over a weekend

01:04:37   and in Marvel Unlimited, and then I count how much money

01:04:41   it would have cost to buy those issues,

01:04:42   and it's like $50 easily.

01:04:44   So I think if you read two story arcs or runs of something in the year that you paid $70 for it, you've saved money.

01:04:54   Honestly. And so it's changed my reading habits. I buy very few, some, but very few new Marvel comics now.

01:04:59   And a lot of the other stuff that's going on, I'm like, "Eh, I'll read that in six months on Unlimited."

01:05:04   So best things to read were the sort of suggestions here, my standards.

01:05:09   standards. I mean Hawkeye is on there and the Hawkeye comic is great if people

01:05:13   haven't read that yet. Love that so much. That's great and the guys who did that

01:05:17   Matt Fraction and David Aja or David Aja or I can never he has some some of his

01:05:24   names are Spanish and some of them aren't as Spanish. Anyway they did a comic

01:05:28   with Ed Brubaker who's a really good comics writer as well. They did a run on

01:05:34   Iron Fist, I believe, is it Mortal Iron Fist?

01:05:37   That is really great.

01:05:39   And I'm not a, like Hawkeye, Iron Fist,

01:05:42   not really an appreciated superhero in the Marvel universe,

01:05:45   but they did a great run of, I think,

01:05:47   like 20 or 24 issues.

01:05:49   That was really good.

01:05:49   So I recommend that.

01:05:51   And I don't know, and this is all kind of happening

01:05:56   awfully fast, so beyond that, I read the Infinity event.

01:06:00   One of the things that Marvel Unlimited lets you do

01:06:02   is they actually create little playlists of these events

01:06:05   that span multiple books so it can get really confusing

01:06:08   about what the reading order should be.

01:06:10   And I read their Infinity event from last year,

01:06:13   which is mostly Avengers and New Avengers.

01:06:16   And I really liked it.

01:06:17   It was sort of a sci-fi event.

01:06:18   It was more everybody against an oncoming cosmic enemy

01:06:23   instead of supervillains versus heroes kind of usual.

01:06:28   And so it was more of a sci-fi plot.

01:06:29   and I'm not generally predisposed to like comic book crossover events,

01:06:34   but I felt like this one, it really was the same writer for all of it.

01:06:38   It was really only in two different books that most of the story was being told,

01:06:41   and I thought that was really good, and I read that over a weekend,

01:06:45   and again, that was one of those things where that was probably $45 worth of comics that I read,

01:06:49   and, you know, I had already paid my annual fee, so it was just free at that point.

01:06:53   So maybe check that out too.

01:06:57   I don't really have any recommendations.

01:07:02   -Thumbs up on Hawkeye. -Love Hawkeye.

01:07:05   I kind of fell out of comics a bit just because of the expense.

01:07:09   Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's one of the things I really like about this

01:07:12   is being able to just sort of try things that I wouldn't...

01:07:15   You know, they'd say, "Oh, we're introducing this new comic."

01:07:17   I thought, "Oh, that sort of sounds interesting, but I'm not gonna spend..."

01:07:20   Like, I read "Avengers Arena," which is an interesting idea.

01:07:24   It's like Arcade kidnaps a bunch of young Avengers

01:07:28   and puts them in Murderworld essentially.

01:07:30   And it's like the Hunger Games with superheroes.

01:07:33   And they're trying to get out, like the Hunger Games,

01:07:35   they're trying to figure out, you know,

01:07:37   do we have to play this game or not?

01:07:39   How do we get out of here?

01:07:40   And that was okay.

01:07:42   That was, I kind of enjoyed reading it

01:07:44   and I would never have bought it.

01:07:46   When it came out, I was like, nope, not interested at all.

01:07:48   But as part of Marvel to just try it out

01:07:51   and see if I like it and then read through 10 issues really fast and say,

01:07:55   "Oh, that was fun," and move on.

01:07:58   You know, that's really dangerous when you have to buy every issue,

01:08:01   but it's not with Marvel Unlimited, so that's one of the reasons that I like it a lot.

01:08:05   - Have you seen the movie "Battle Royale"?

01:08:08   - No, it's on my list. That's the Korean or Japanese movie.

01:08:12   Yeah, that's -- yeah.

01:08:13   Well, it's all in "Hunger Games."

01:08:15   This is the same premise, and it's all kind of combined together.

01:08:19   I'll put in a plug for Ultimate Spider-Man.

01:08:21   The original Brian Michael Bendis,

01:08:23   Ultimate Spider-Man going back,

01:08:25   I mean, he's still writing it,

01:08:26   but going back 10 years to when they started that

01:08:29   with Ultimate Peter Parker, that's a great series.

01:08:34   That's my favorite comic series of the last 10 or 15 years

01:08:36   where they're retelling Spider-Man from the beginning

01:08:39   and taking their time and doing it without the encumbrance

01:08:42   of the existing kind of Marvel continuity.

01:08:44   And there's like 150 issues of that.

01:08:46   So if you haven't read that,

01:08:47   I would go back and read that all with Marvel Unlimited.

01:08:50   It's great.

01:08:50   - How far back can you,

01:08:53   so how recent, just what I'm looking for,

01:08:55   how recent are the comics on Marvel Unlimited?

01:08:57   - I think the lag is like six to nine months.

01:09:00   - I would pay, I mean I'm sure everybody would,

01:09:04   I would pay more if they would just give me everything

01:09:07   that's happening now. - Yeah, but they just know,

01:09:08   they know they make a lot of money from people

01:09:10   who are the hardcore comics fans who are buying,

01:09:13   you know, when it comes out at full price.

01:09:15   And like with Netflix, you know,

01:09:16   I'm sure everybody would love their Netflix subscription

01:09:19   to have every movie that's released on it, right?

01:09:21   - Of course.

01:09:22   - And the moment it's released on video,

01:09:23   but you couldn't make a service with that.

01:09:26   So this is the balance of it.

01:09:27   I found that that release window has gotten a lot closer.

01:09:30   I think it used to be more like two years

01:09:32   or a year and a half,

01:09:33   and now it feels more like it's six months.

01:09:35   And I think they're using it as a,

01:09:37   I think they see value in releasing more new comics,

01:09:42   because if you really get into it,

01:09:44   then you reach the end of the "elimited" line,

01:09:47   and if you want to keep reading,

01:09:48   you've got to go buy the issues.

01:09:49   And I think they see that there's a marketing benefit

01:09:51   to that.

01:09:52   Like if they want people in the new Ms. Marvel,

01:09:54   one way they can do that is by releasing a few issues

01:09:56   of the new Ms. Marvel.

01:09:58   And then once you're into it,

01:09:59   maybe you're going to go switch over

01:10:00   and use the Marvel app or ComiXology or something else

01:10:03   to buy the current issues,

01:10:06   which I think maybe some people do.

01:10:08   So they've obviously made a calculation about it,

01:10:10   but totally worth the $70 if you like Marvel comics,

01:10:13   because you could just read, that could be your,

01:10:15   if you really like Marvel comics,

01:10:17   it could be your only purchase of comics for a whole year,

01:10:20   and you would have plenty to read.

01:10:22   You just have to not pay attention to websites

01:10:24   that are telling you about the latest whatever.

01:10:26   You just gotta just embrace being six months behind.

01:10:30   - Is comiXology completely ruined?

01:10:32   - It's not completely ruined.

01:10:36   Oh man, we could do a whole show about this.

01:10:38   It's not completely ruined.

01:10:39   I actually talked to them at Comic-Con in San Diego.

01:10:42   I think they were caught by surprise by how quickly the Amazon thing happened.

01:10:46   My problem, I mean I don't love the fact that you can't buy comics in the Comixology app

01:10:50   anymore, although you can in the DC and Marvel apps that are basically Comixology, but just

01:10:56   for those publishers.

01:10:57   Well here's the thing, those publishers can swallow the, they're not a middle man, right?

01:11:04   That's a relationship where it's like the publishers and Apple, and so they set a price

01:11:08   and Apple takes their 15% or whatever it is, or 30% or whatever it is, and that's okay.

01:11:16   But Comixology, in their main app, they're the middleman, and they're making all of their

01:11:20   money on the markup from wholesale, and then Apple takes the percentage and there's nothing

01:11:27   left for them, or Amazon.

01:11:30   And so it's different when it's the publisher, right?

01:11:32   Because the publisher can just set the price and there's, and presumably they're compensating

01:11:36   Comixology in some other way for that. So I think that's the difference there.

01:11:40   Maybe Comixology still makes the same cut, but it doesn't matter so much to Marvel at that point,

01:11:45   because there's still more money for them. I don't know. I don't know.

01:11:48   Yeah, it may be, but when it's direct, it's different. Anyway, so I don't think it's totally

01:11:52   ruined, but I am buying fewer comics on Comixology. I tend to buy all my Comixology stuff through the

01:12:01   web anyway, honestly, because I always thought that the Apple in-app purchase thing was kind of

01:12:05   of hinky. I always felt like, "Why am I getting Apple involved in this transaction at all?"

01:12:14   And so I would often go on the web and just sort of look at the big--on my Mac--and look

01:12:19   at the big images and then click on a bunch of things and add them to my cart and buy

01:12:22   them and then later I would just go to my iPad and read them. The problem is not just

01:12:27   that the--they've actually improved the iPad web experience for ComiXology a lot because

01:12:31   they know people can't buy on the iPad app.

01:12:35   The problem is that the app itself has not been redesigned

01:12:38   to reflect reality.

01:12:40   The app is essentially the old app

01:12:42   with some stuff ripped out of it.

01:12:43   And they need to do a much better job of saying,

01:12:47   hey, you just bought some comics on the web, here they are.

01:12:51   And right now there's like,

01:12:52   there's a tab with a recently purchased menu item

01:12:57   and then you can see what you just bought.

01:12:59   And that part needs to be much better and they know it.

01:13:02   And hopefully they'll do a software release

01:13:04   that improves it.

01:13:05   'Cause that's, I think the ComiXology experience,

01:13:08   although it's never gonna be as good as it was

01:13:09   when you could buy in the app,

01:13:10   could be way better than it is now

01:13:12   if the app was redesigned to accept the fact

01:13:16   that you're not buying the comics there

01:13:21   and you're buying them elsewhere

01:13:22   and then they need to show them to you once you arrive.

01:13:25   So they'll get there eventually, but it's too bad.

01:13:28   It's a sad thing for this year.

01:13:29   - Let's take a moment to thank our final friend

01:13:32   for this week's episode and that is Dash.

01:13:34   Dash is a super cool website that lets you quickly

01:13:37   create real-time custom dashboards.

01:13:39   These dashboards allow you to get a visual overview

01:13:41   of data that is important for your website,

01:13:43   business, or even your life.

01:13:45   Dash allows you to pull in data from a variety

01:13:47   of different sources around the web.

01:13:49   There are dozens of pre-built widgets for services

01:13:51   like Twitter, Chartbeat, Pingdom, Google Analytics,

01:13:54   GitHub, and many more.

01:13:56   and you're also able to display your own custom data in Dash as well.

01:13:59   They have an API that allows you to share data from Dropbox

01:14:03   or all around the web and create your own custom widgets.

01:14:06   So the pricing model for Dash is a lot like GitHub.

01:14:10   Everyone gets unlimited public dashboards so that you can share live data with the Dash community,

01:14:15   but if you upgrade to their Pro account for $10 a month,

01:14:18   you'll also get unlimited private dashboards too.

01:14:20   These are just for you to see.

01:14:21   Now to give you an idea of how these could work,

01:14:24   You could have a public dashboard which is focused around your favorite sports team.

01:14:28   So you could have the sports team's Twitter account in there. You could have Google news

01:14:32   stuff and you could have some of the recent things that are going on. And you could have some imagery

01:14:36   of like the logo, maybe the current jersey or something for the team. You could have some

01:14:41   imagery in there as well because you can add little images in to help personalize your Dash

01:14:45   experience. Or maybe you want a private dashboard that focuses on your own stuff. So you could have

01:14:52   information from your Why Things scale. You can have that pulled right in.

01:14:55   You could have your own Twitter account there as well. You could have an Instagram feed so you can

01:14:59   see what's happening in Instagram and maybe some analytics from your own personal website as well.

01:15:03   However, Dash is currently running an awesome limited time promotion for you guys. If you

01:15:09   sign up for a free account today at TheDash.com, you'll also get one private dashboard in addition

01:15:14   to your free accounts and limited public dashboards. There's no credit card required

01:15:18   and you'll keep your private dashboard for free forever.

01:15:21   There is a fantastic, this is a fantastic offer that you should definitely be taking advantage of.

01:15:26   There's nothing to lose. So go sign up right now at thedash.com. Thank you so much to Dash for

01:15:30   supporting us at Relay FM. We love you very much. Don't go to dash.com. That's a detergent.

01:15:37   Thedash.com. You can go there as well, but it's that they don't help. So go to thedash.com.

01:15:44   unless you have dirty clothes. So I've done a terrible job of this lightning round,

01:15:48   and we're about three questions into our 100 questions. So we're speeding it up. Should we do

01:15:54   a few more? So yeah, super lightning. Okay, I have nothing to say on this one. So Tiger Matt would

01:16:00   like to know Jason's thoughts on tech in sports and how baseball in particular is handling the

01:16:05   future, like replay. All right, I think Major League Baseball in the United States obviously

01:16:12   is doing a great job with technology.

01:16:14   They actually set up a company called

01:16:16   Major League Baseball Advanced Media,

01:16:18   which most of the streaming sports video

01:16:21   that you have live streaming sports video in the US,

01:16:25   and actually maybe in the world,

01:16:27   is run out of Major League Baseball Advanced Media,

01:16:29   even other sports.

01:16:30   ESPN, their streaming stack is

01:16:33   Major League Baseball Advanced Media.

01:16:35   It's actually a really cool story

01:16:36   about a cool tech startup.

01:16:38   The instant replay stuff, I believe,

01:16:40   all leveraged from Major League Baseball Advanced Media's Digital Media Center in New York City,

01:16:46   which I went to a few years ago, is really cool. And they have this insane server farm

01:16:54   across the street from their office. And I had that moment of like, is it really economical

01:16:58   to have all these servers here in Manhattan? I mean, like, surely there's better space

01:17:02   somewhere else. But no, they're in, like Chelsea. Anyway, I'm very impressed with their technology.

01:17:08   I think they do a really good job. There are always issues. There are lots of issues with rights for, you know,

01:17:13   cable and satellite TV companies spend a lot of money to save themselves from cord cutters by getting exclusive rights,

01:17:19   which is why you can't sort of stream your home team.

01:17:22   I would like... I'm a robot umps and robot officials in general fan, and I know a lot of purists don't like that.

01:17:32   I love the game, but I'm a stats guy. I'm a stats guy for all of this.

01:17:36   I love how math and analytics and intelligent viewing of sports changes how we view, like,

01:17:43   I love the New York Times fourth down bot for American football, which has analyzed

01:17:48   the probabilities of going for it on fourth down and realizes that coaches are way too

01:17:54   conservative and they're actually losing themselves games by not trying, by not gambling.

01:17:59   They're afraid to take a risk and so they never take a risk and as a result they actually

01:18:03   are worse off, which I'm fascinated by psychologically and also just from a competitive standpoint

01:18:08   I think it's interesting that you're saving face by doing worse. And then Major League

01:18:13   Baseball the same way, I love all the sabermetric stuff and how we think differently about who

01:18:20   good players are now that we have a better idea of what really impacts the game, although

01:18:28   I think we still haven't cracked it. There's a guy named Ken Arneson, I'll put his post in the

01:18:34   show notes, who wrote a great piece saying that he thinks we're still missing some of the core

01:18:41   concepts of how baseball works because the sabermetric stuff can't measure these thought

01:18:50   chains about the pitcher trying to fool the hitter that are actually at the core of the game. So I

01:18:55   I love that stuff.

01:18:56   I, and again, this is not very lightning.

01:18:58   The last thing I'll say is I think that now that we have computers and cameras that are

01:19:03   mounted in all the major league stadiums that can tell where a baseball crosses home plate,

01:19:08   that umpires need to stop calling balls and strikes and they should give the umpires a

01:19:11   little clicker that like tells them whether it's a ball or a strike and we should remove

01:19:15   that human elephant element from the game.

01:19:17   Not human elephant, that's something totally different because the computers know and getting

01:19:23   right is is important and you can you can keep the flavor without uh without i think ruining the game

01:19:29   so um and and you'll get things more right and be more consistent i think that's a good thing so

01:19:35   that is my sports dump uh did you understand a word of that we'll we'll uh you know we we're

01:19:41   still getting up to speed with thanksgiving mike i don't wanna i don't wanna confuse you too much

01:19:45   with sports and american sports no less which is terrifying i have literally no idea what you yeah

01:19:51   Do you care about sport at all?

01:19:54   No.

01:19:55   Okay, so it's even worse.

01:19:56   It's twice removed.

01:19:57   Yeah.

01:19:58   This is American sport and sport.

01:19:59   I can't even put that information into football or cricket.

01:20:05   I literally have no idea.

01:20:06   I know that I hear people explain some of the technology that is lacking from football,

01:20:12   and I don't understand it.

01:20:14   For example, there are no sensors on the goal lines to see if something goes in.

01:20:18   You should be able to do that.

01:20:19   And the technology exists now, and the fans

01:20:20   will demand it eventually.

01:20:22   You end up having so many decisions that are--

01:20:25   I mean, this happened in the World Series this year

01:20:27   and in baseball in general this year,

01:20:29   that they now have instant replay.

01:20:32   And the fact is, they get the calls right.

01:20:34   And it used to be, umpire would make a call,

01:20:38   or a football referee would make a call,

01:20:40   and you would immediately see the instant replay and say,

01:20:43   oh, they got it wrong.

01:20:44   And that was it.

01:20:44   You just had to be angry that they got it wrong.

01:20:46   And now, when you see they got it wrong, you say, oh, well,

01:20:48   that'll be overturned. They'll get it right.

01:20:50   I feel like this might be an unpopular thought, but from my perspective, considering it is

01:20:57   legal to put money on these things, there shouldn't be allowed to be a margin for error

01:21:03   by a referee's decision.

01:21:06   I agree with you. People talk a lot about the human element, and I think a lot of times

01:21:10   not the human elephant. And they're talking about how, "Oh, well, you know, part of the

01:21:14   storytelling is that you get mad because there was a bad call and you lost the game. It's

01:21:18   like, you know what's a better story? That everybody got it right and the team that won

01:21:22   won because they deserved it. That's a better story. That's the human element as code for

01:21:27   sometimes people make terrible decisions and we all have to live with it. It's like, what

01:21:31   the hell kind of crazy human element is that? So I think getting it right is probably what

01:21:36   the priority should be. And again, if you destroy all of the atmosphere and excitement

01:21:41   of the game by getting it right, you're doing it wrong.

01:21:44   But I think that there's a long way to go

01:21:46   between getting it right and destroying the game.

01:21:49   And people who are opposed to getting it right

01:21:50   always talk about destroying the game.

01:21:52   But I think, again, having some cameras and sensors

01:21:55   in a goal to verify that that goal happened,

01:21:59   it's probably worth it.

01:22:00   Probably, probably worth it.

01:22:02   People would probably rather get it right

01:22:04   than get it wrong.

01:22:05   - So Seth K. Jolly would like--

01:22:10   - Yeah, Seth Jolly, yes.

01:22:11   - Is very confused, Jason,

01:22:14   about whether he should be buying a Chrome stick,

01:22:18   a Fire TV stick, a Roku, an Apple TV.

01:22:22   He doesn't know what to do.

01:22:24   Can you help? - Oh, this will be a short one.

01:22:26   I have a Fire stick now.

01:22:28   I've tried it out a little bit.

01:22:29   It's nice.

01:22:30   What all of these point out is that Apple's interface

01:22:32   is really kind of old and out of date

01:22:34   and the Apple TV needs a major upgrade

01:22:35   and I'm not quite sure what they're waiting for.

01:22:38   I would never buy an Apple TV right now because I feel like it's at the end of its lifespan

01:22:43   and there will be something else, a new Apple TV that will be better.

01:22:48   There better be because there's other stuff.

01:22:49   The only thing the Apple TV has going for it right now is that it's connected to Apple's

01:22:53   ecosystem.

01:22:57   The Fire Stick is fun and it's really small which I really like and a lot of TVs have

01:23:01   USB ports so you can power it via the USB port on the TV and it's basically invisible

01:23:06   at that point and it's got a little Bluetooth remote.

01:23:08   So it's cute.

01:23:09   I have only used the Chromecast briefly.

01:23:13   It's fine.

01:23:14   I prefer one of these devices to have a remote control

01:23:18   and not an app remote because I think app remotes stink.

01:23:21   I don't like, and I have a Roku and the Roku is nice too.

01:23:24   I don't like the idea that you're gonna control a device

01:23:28   with your phone all the time

01:23:29   'cause I don't always have my phone with me

01:23:32   when I'm watching TV

01:23:33   and I certainly don't have my phone in my hand

01:23:36   unlocked, ready to control it, and look on the touch screen to see what I need to tap

01:23:41   in order to get it right. I hate that. So I like the fact that the Amazon Fire Stick

01:23:46   comes with a remote that is itself much larger than the product. So they're fun and they're

01:23:53   cheap. I mean, I bought the Fire Stick because it was 20 bucks, and I thought, "What the

01:23:56   heck? I can try it out and maybe write about it at some point." But all of these products

01:24:03   are good but have limitations. And, you know, that's really all I can say is they all try

01:24:10   to tie you into an ecosystem of some sort or other and depending on what ecosystem you

01:24:16   have files in, that's going to affect your decision.

01:24:22   We have a couple of questions about headphones.

01:24:26   Headphones!

01:24:27   @cf318 and @_joedarnell are interested in the headphones we use both what are the fun

01:24:33   headphones we use for music, what do we use on the desk, how do they differ and I guess

01:24:38   I would also throw in professional what do you use for your podcasting.

01:24:43   So Jason what headphones do you use?

01:24:46   I have a pair of ultimate ears in ear monitors that I use at my desk that used to be my headphones

01:24:55   that I wore everywhere, but they've got replaceable cables, which is good because the cables go

01:25:00   bad eventually. And I've run, they no longer make cables for these headphones, and I've

01:25:06   run out of the iPhone version that's got the clicker and the microphone, so now all I have

01:25:12   are regular headphone cables. So now they just stay at my desk. So those are what are

01:25:15   in my ears now. And they are, they're standard in-ear monitors, they're like the UE4s, I

01:25:22   I think they're really good.

01:25:23   They're the best headphones I've ever owned.

01:25:25   And I'm an in-ear headphone guy.

01:25:27   So I'm like the, when Marco Arment reviews headphones

01:25:30   and says, stop telling me about in-ear headphones,

01:25:32   I can't wear them.

01:25:33   I'm that guy who can.

01:25:36   And I actually have silicone custom ear tips

01:25:39   that I had made a few years ago.

01:25:41   So that's really cool 'cause they're molded to fit my ears.

01:25:45   So they don't just stick in with a little like foam earbud

01:25:48   that sticks in your ear.

01:25:49   I've got these silicone things that are the exact shape

01:25:53   of my ear canal.

01:25:54   So when they go in, the seal is solid

01:25:57   and it isolates me from outside sound,

01:26:00   sometimes laughably so,

01:26:01   but it makes them sound that much better

01:26:04   'cause there's no sound interference.

01:26:05   And then separately, for when I'm walking around,

01:26:08   I've got a pair of Edomotic in-ear ones

01:26:12   that come with the little iPhone clicker on them.

01:26:15   And that same mold that I used for the custom tips for here,

01:26:20   that company, which is, I wanna say ECS, I think,

01:26:24   that makes those custom ear tips,

01:26:27   I just called them up and said,

01:26:31   do you still have my mold?

01:26:32   'Cause they do a 3D scan.

01:26:33   So it's just a file.

01:26:34   And I said, can you make me a pair

01:26:36   that work on the Edomotic headphones?

01:26:37   And they're like, sure, that'll be,

01:26:39   I don't know what, 75 bucks or something like that.

01:26:40   And so I have the custom,

01:26:42   I have custom silicone ear tips on those Edomotics

01:26:45   that I use when I'm walking around.

01:26:47   - Very fancy. - I'm an in-ear guy.

01:26:50   Once you go, for me, it's like once I went in-ear,

01:26:53   I would never go back.

01:26:55   They're super comfortable and they sound great.

01:26:57   And I totally appreciate how other people can't wear them,

01:27:01   because especially when I went to Arizona to visit my mom,

01:27:04   I forgot my headphones and I had to buy a pair of headphones

01:27:07   and I bought in-ears, but with just little,

01:27:09   like, you know, generic tips on them.

01:27:12   And boy, wearing those for an hour,

01:27:14   my ears were really unhappy with me. But when you get the customs done, which

01:27:18   aren't cheap, the custom old cost like 150 bucks or something like that,

01:27:22   but boy they sound good and they feel good.

01:27:24   Yeah I can't do in-ears, they make my ears really hurt. And one of my ears, I think my

01:27:30   left ear, just doesn't stay in. I don't know why. When I'm out and about I just

01:27:36   earpods. They're fine. They're fine. I mainly listen to podcasts rather than

01:27:44   music. I do listen to music with them but I'm not on audiophile. I listen to

01:27:48   streaming music services. The quality is not massively important to me.

01:27:54   Obviously I want good quality but I'm not, you know, I'm not crying about it.

01:27:58   When I'm traveling I do have some Bose headphones. I can't remember what ones

01:28:06   I have but I will make sure that they go into the show notes

01:28:10   And I just use those because when I'm on a plane I like to have

01:28:14   headphones that go all the way over the year

01:28:17   But I don't I I don't

01:28:21   Like noise cancelling either

01:28:26   It makes me feel sick. I don't know why

01:28:30   I have the Bose QuietComfort QC15. No I don't, I have a different model. I looked at the picture and realised they're not the ones that I have.

01:28:42   Because I read in an airport, I think I was on my way to San Francisco, I bought up one of Marco's reviews and went through that and picked a pair.

01:28:56   But now I can't I can't find them, but I will find them. Don't worry

01:28:59   they're like the

01:29:02   sort of the

01:29:04   smaller ones anyway, I

01:29:06   Yeah, I

01:29:10   Pasted I pasted in the chat room what I think of as the first time I ever saw who you were

01:29:15   Which if you can look at that picture, I put it in the show notes as well

01:29:21   This this is some guy sort of singing into a microphone holding on to headphones. I thought who is that guy?

01:29:28   That was you that was me. So those headphones

01:29:31   Those are like Sony like studio. Yeah, they are the the Sony HDR 7506. Yeah, they are widely considered to be

01:29:39   The best for spoken audio whenever you see

01:29:48   pictures or video of people in studios.

01:29:52   They are pretty much all wearing these.

01:29:54   I think I said it wrong, it's the MDR 7506.

01:29:57   - Yeah, that's what we had in the podcast room

01:30:00   at Macworld was those.

01:30:02   So those look very familiar.

01:30:03   - I went to my second pair because my first pair

01:30:06   I used so much that like the black on the cushion

01:30:09   started fading away.

01:30:10   I can't recommend this enough.

01:30:13   I wear these headphones sometimes for like eight hours

01:30:17   day and they are incredibly comfortable and they sound fantastic so big fan I'm

01:30:23   a big fan yeah I think that's it for me on headphones all right now I think we

01:30:31   will maybe go into two very a couple of very quick questions actually grumpy

01:30:36   wants to know that now my commute is shorter will I have bought the six plus

01:30:39   the answer is yes because I love it obviously I can't speak for a alternate

01:30:43   timeline me but even now I would still buy the 6+ I would still get this form

01:30:49   factor because it's no regrets like no regrets at all.

01:30:51   Alright. N. Kremens is interested Jason in the more Nerf brain ball more Nerf

01:30:59   brain ball I was gonna cross over that part no okay what would you like to say

01:31:03   about the Nerf brain ball today? We got we got multiple requests for more Nerf

01:31:07   brain ball I I haven't I I'm holding it now I enjoy the Nerf brain ball I have

01:31:13   no new Nerf brain ball news other than to suggest that at some point it would be really

01:31:19   great if we could find a way to get a Nerf brain ball to Myke and or an equivalent as

01:31:27   well as some Manchego.

01:31:29   We should we should work on that.

01:31:30   Come on people help me out here.

01:31:32   And I have had a few people send me pictures of other like foam brains or brain props most

01:31:39   which really are disturbing, but keep sending them. That's my brain ball update.

01:31:44   He also mentioned the Top Shelf episode, which is I think The Verge do. They did a great

01:31:54   episode of Top Shelf about podcasts, which you should watch. I enjoyed it a lot.

01:31:59   But I think the main thing that he wanted you to talk about, I'm going to put this on you,

01:32:06   your opinion on the App Store Red notification.

01:32:10   I'll put some links in the show notes

01:32:11   if you don't know what they are.

01:32:12   Those show notes, by the way,

01:32:13   can be found at relay.fm/upgrade/12.

01:32:18   - I don't have a lot.

01:32:20   I mean, so App Store sent out a notification yesterday

01:32:23   saying, you know, buy great apps

01:32:26   and the money goes to Red, so it goes to FightAids.

01:32:30   And the fact, I guess what I would say

01:32:35   Some people got upset about this.

01:32:37   I guess I would say these things have been going on

01:32:40   for a while.

01:32:41   This is sending notifications out for sales

01:32:44   and for other things that are against the App Store rules

01:32:47   has been a thing that's been happening forever.

01:32:51   And I think it's dumb that this is a rule

01:32:55   if it's not gonna be enforced.

01:32:57   And I think it's extra dumb that Apple is breaking it,

01:33:01   but it's also doing it for a good cause.

01:33:03   and if it's a rule that's not being enforced anyway,

01:33:06   then for Apple to break it with a tasteful message

01:33:08   for a good cause as a part of their App Store Red promotion

01:33:12   seems to be about as gentle a way

01:33:15   to break that rule as possible.

01:33:17   So I understand the frustration of developers

01:33:20   that the App Store rules aren't being followed

01:33:22   and aren't being enforced,

01:33:24   and maybe Apple should look at that,

01:33:26   but it's hard for me to get particularly angry about this.

01:33:29   If this was the only time,

01:33:30   if apps had been pulled from the store

01:33:32   and nobody had ever, ever sent a notification

01:33:35   that violated those rules at all.

01:33:37   And then this was the first time,

01:33:38   even then I would probably be like,

01:33:40   "Eh, you know, it's for a good cause, it's fine."

01:33:42   It's hard for me to get worked up.

01:33:43   I understand that a developer who has to go back and forth

01:33:46   with Apple about App Store rules would be mad

01:33:48   when Apple's own apps violate some of the rules.

01:33:50   I understand that, but you know,

01:33:53   it's hard for me to get particularly upset about it.

01:33:56   App Store rules should be clear

01:33:59   and I think it's great that Apple

01:34:01   was so involved in the RED project this year.

01:34:06   So, you know, shrug.

01:34:07   - It's pretty much how I feel.

01:34:10   Like, yeah, it sucks that they sent out a notification,

01:34:14   but they did it for a good thing.

01:34:16   And also, I mean, the only reason it sucks

01:34:18   is because of the rule.

01:34:19   If the rule isn't there, it wouldn't even matter.

01:34:20   So maybe I should just get rid of the rule

01:34:21   in the first place, but whatever.

01:34:24   But I do think that it should, you know,

01:34:28   if you can overlook it, you should overlook it

01:34:30   because it was kind of for a good reason.

01:34:32   - And we have time for one more comment,

01:34:35   which I promise will be very quick.

01:34:37   This is from Jim in Tonic.

01:34:38   And he says, "I'm flying tomorrow for work.

01:34:42   What are your preferred technologies for air travel

01:34:45   and or travel altogether?"

01:34:47   And I'm gonna keep this simple, airplanes.

01:34:50   Airplanes are my preferred technology for air travel.

01:34:53   Zeppelin's would be a second, but airplanes are,

01:34:56   I generally go with airplanes for air travel.

01:34:59   - Not 100% sure if that's what he was getting at.

01:35:04   So...

01:35:07   - I don't know what else it could mean.

01:35:09   - Whilst I agree with Jason, I also like airplanes.

01:35:14   I think a couple of things for me that I would suggest,

01:35:17   I use Evernote to keep all of my travel documents in.

01:35:21   I use an app called, I think called Flight Track 5

01:35:26   or something again.

01:35:27   - Oh yeah, Flight Track, I use that.

01:35:28   I'll put that in the show notes so you can,

01:35:30   you know, just as a good way to track my flying planes.

01:35:35   I don't know what to say.

01:35:38   And I could say headphones.

01:35:39   - I have Passbook now.

01:35:40   I use Passbook or the Photos app sometimes

01:35:44   if it's a, here's your barcode on a webpage.

01:35:47   I'll take a screenshot of it so I make sure

01:35:49   that I don't have to load the webpage

01:35:51   when I get to the airport.

01:35:52   - I'm a big fan of Passbook when I'm traveling,

01:35:56   when it works, when the airline allows you to use it.

01:35:59   Makes me very happy, Jason.

01:36:01   - And these in-ear headphones that I mentioned earlier,

01:36:03   those are great on an airplane.

01:36:05   - Yes.

01:36:06   - Those are great on an airplane.

01:36:07   They just block out the airplane sound.

01:36:09   - You should 100% be using a set of in-ear

01:36:13   or any kind of over-ear, just good headphones

01:36:16   when you're on a plane, I think is quite important.

01:36:19   And it's why I have my unidentified Bose headphones for that.

01:36:23   - I hope, anyway, Jim,

01:36:25   I hope you're flying on a jet airplane tomorrow, because that's the best. Good luck.

01:36:29   Good luck. I once flew on a propeller airplane and I was very scared by the whole situation.

01:36:37   My dad actually had a plane for a little while, a propeller plane. Well, that demystifies

01:36:44   a lot of flying when you realize that. I don't know how my mother allowed him to spend any

01:36:48   money on something like that and then eventually he sold it. But he was a private pilot and

01:36:53   flew to the little tiny airports in this little tiny airplane and it was a kind

01:36:57   of scary but then we did we took a commercial flight that was a prop plane

01:37:01   in Florida once and I was like what have we gotten ourselves into so very slow

01:37:06   flight very slow scary okie-dokie we haven't even gotten to all of our

01:37:12   questions but we'll save some for next time too late if you'd like to find this

01:37:15   show in a six episode you want to point your web browser of choice at relay.fm

01:37:20   slash upgrades slash 12. My name is Myke Hurley I'm @imicontwitter I am YKE and my

01:37:28   illustrious co-host Mr. Jason Snell is @jsnell on Twitter that's J S N E double L

01:37:34   and he writes at the fantastic sixcolors.com. We'll be back next time with

01:37:39   another episode of Upgrade. Thanks again to our friends Hover, Dash and Mailerout.

01:37:45   Till then, goodbye.

01:37:47   Goodbye.

01:37:49   [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:37:53   [Music]

01:37:55   [ Silence ]