9: A Brain and a Drill


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   Hello and welcome back to Upgrade on Relay FM.

00:00:12   This is episode 9. Today's episode of Upgrade is brought to you by

00:00:17   Igloo, an internet you'll actually like, and The Converted by Idiom,

00:00:21   a unique converter for iOS. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined

00:00:26   by the man of this hour, Mr Jason Snow.

00:00:29   Hello, I'm happy to be your co-host for this one hour before we all move along with our

00:00:36   lives and go to other places and other podcasts.

00:00:38   So if this episode goes over an hour, which the listeners will know now, I don't know

00:00:43   what happens in the second hour.

00:00:44   It's going to be a short show.

00:00:46   I don't know who the man of the second hour is.

00:00:48   Now I've cursed...

00:00:49   Well, you will be the man of the all remaining hours of this podcast.

00:00:52   Okay, great.

00:00:53   I will cede control of being the man of the hour to you at the one hour mark.

00:00:57   where the wheels really come off. Yes, yeah. That's a Bonanza style insanity that happens

00:01:04   then. You want to keep it to around an hour if you can help it. Short show. So, hey Myke,

00:01:14   there's some follow-up. Oh, everybody's favorite. I know, I take too much glee in having follow-up,

00:01:20   but I'm just very excited that I have follow-up. First off, we talked a few weeks ago about

00:01:26   the fact that I am kind of unnerved by streaming services

00:01:31   because I wrote that article about how Battlestar Galactica

00:01:34   was being taken off of Netflix

00:01:36   and how streaming services are really convenient

00:01:39   but you were kind of at the whims of the catalogs

00:01:42   and you really see that in video streaming services

00:01:45   but you also can see that in audio a little bit

00:01:48   and I said, mostly the music stuff is just is fine.

00:01:51   We had the one piece of feedback from somebody who said

00:01:54   that the most successful German rapper, I think,

00:01:58   pulled all his stuff off of a streaming service

00:02:00   and people were upset about that.

00:02:03   And I just wanted to follow up

00:02:06   with some real world follow up,

00:02:07   which is Taylor Swift pulled all her albums off of Spotify.

00:02:11   Not only has she withheld her new album

00:02:13   from streaming services,

00:02:14   but I believe all of her albums were removed,

00:02:16   her whole catalog from Spotify.

00:02:19   And this is one of those things that I was talking about.

00:02:22   This may be an outlier or this may be a sign of things

00:02:25   to come that subscribing to a music service

00:02:28   is really awesome because you can do a lot of discovery

00:02:30   and there's just access to so much music,

00:02:32   but you do risk having stuff up and vanish on you.

00:02:37   And that's not cool.

00:02:39   That's not fun.

00:02:40   So if you enjoy Taylor Swift

00:02:42   and you built a Taylor Swift playlist on Spotify,

00:02:44   and it's now gone.

00:02:46   So this is the challenge

00:02:50   with all of these streaming services

00:02:51   is the intellectual property libraries

00:02:54   and the licensing agreements.

00:02:56   And if you bought her albums, you have them still.

00:03:00   And if you just listened on Spotify, now they're gone.

00:03:04   - So is she given much of a reason for why?

00:03:07   I've seen some headlines which kind of just say,

00:03:10   I'm not committing my life's work to a fad

00:03:13   and things like that.

00:03:15   Have you read anything?

00:03:16   - No, I-- - Suggest more?

00:03:18   No, I-- and it's on other services.

00:03:21   It's not entirely gone from all the services, I think.

00:03:26   But I don't know.

00:03:27   I mean, I don't know what her deal is with her record label,

00:03:31   and if there are specific things that she can, say,

00:03:35   take it off the streaming services,

00:03:37   and I don't know what their deals are.

00:03:40   I don't know.

00:03:41   I mean, I think what's really interesting

00:03:42   is that you've got a big star with a big hit album,

00:03:45   and everybody who's expected that they could just listen

00:03:47   to it on the streaming service the day that it came out have been sadly mistaken because

00:03:51   her album 1989 is not available for streaming, you need to buy it and that's interesting

00:03:56   and I think we're going to see more of that. I think you're going to end up seeing something

00:04:01   more like a video release window where you know it's in the theaters and then it's on

00:04:08   for purchase or for rental and eventually it ends up on TV. I think you might see that

00:04:12   with music services where they're more about the catalog and maybe less about new stuff,

00:04:18   especially from big names. So it'll be interesting to see how it goes. But the larger point was

00:04:23   just that this is the downside of those services. You get a lot of convenience and a lot of

00:04:26   value out of them. But one of the really consumer unfriendly things is this, that her albums

00:04:33   are just gone from Spotify. They just have vanished. And it's funny that we mentioned

00:04:37   and we didn't have a real high-profile example, a German rapper, I'm sorry, not quite high-profile

00:04:43   as Taylor Swift.

00:04:44   This is about as high-profile as it gets.

00:04:46   I have found a Rolling Stone article, and basically the gist of it is, it's kind of

00:04:54   summed up in this one quote from her, "I just don't agree with perpetuating the perception

00:04:59   that music has no value and should be free."

00:05:02   And the title of the article is about a superfan who wants to invest.

00:05:07   So she's kind of basically saying if people want to give you money, you're kind of not

00:05:12   allowing them to do that because the perception is all music is free on Spotify.

00:05:16   And that kind of like you pay a company, not the artist.

00:05:19   I think that's kind of her concern, which, you know, there's definitely some merit in

00:05:25   that, you know, the idea of being like, all music is free, it has no value.

00:05:29   You know, the people that made it don't deserve to be paid directly for it.

00:05:32   I get that, but it feels like this will only last for so long, because this is where the

00:05:44   kids are.

00:05:45   So, you know, eventually, well, she can choose, but eventually she may decide that she will

00:05:51   want to change that decision, who knows?

00:05:53   - Yeah, but it could also push the tech people who are behind these services to change too.

00:05:58   I mean, that's part of the argument here is,

00:06:01   this has been a very simple,

00:06:02   these services are conceived fairly simply

00:06:04   by people who are not in the music business.

00:06:06   These are mostly technical people

00:06:07   and then they get lawyers involved and they manage,

00:06:09   you know, they work with the music industry

00:06:11   to make deals and things like that.

00:06:13   And I've not heard any artists say

00:06:17   that streaming services are good for them.

00:06:20   And I get that they're good for consumers,

00:06:23   but there are markets where there's such an imbalance

00:06:26   between good for consumers but bad for the creators

00:06:29   or producers of the material that something has to give

00:06:32   because that's not something that's sustainable otherwise.

00:06:35   And so for an example, like a Blockbuster, like I said,

00:06:37   yeah, maybe it's a windowing system

00:06:40   where the new stuff doesn't appear.

00:06:42   Maybe it is a premium subscription

00:06:46   that gives you access to new releases for more money

00:06:49   or you can get the cheaper free subscription

00:06:52   for older stuff.

00:06:53   I don't know how it's gonna play out

00:06:55   but it's interesting that somebody who's got clout

00:06:58   because she's popular is using that to talk about

00:07:02   the issues involved and to bring attention to it.

00:07:05   It may have no bearing, it may not change a thing,

00:07:08   but I think it's an interesting approach

00:07:11   because I don't think that the current streaming service

00:07:15   system is sustainable for artists.

00:07:17   And yeah, the record companies are in the middle too,

00:07:20   and those guys probably, ideally you'd come up

00:07:23   with a system that eliminated the middlemen and just benefited the artists directly.

00:07:29   Because the music industry is legendary for how these big music record companies exploit

00:07:34   the artists.

00:07:36   But still, I think there are challenges with this, where artists don't like the existence

00:07:44   of these services and how much of that is just feeling like it devalues their work and

00:07:50   how much of it is literally it devalues their work because they don't get paid.

00:07:55   I think we're still too early to know what are the halo effects of streaming

00:08:02   streaming music. Like what does it over time drive up concert ticket sales which

00:08:08   is where these artists make the majority of their money. Probably not in Taylor

00:08:12   Swift's case because I'm sure she has a very lucrative recording contract now

00:08:17   because she has the ability to demand such a thing. But I just wonder if

00:08:22   in five years time we realized that there wasn't gonna be any more

00:08:25   money. Because we spoke about how... Do you remember I mentioned about the

00:08:29   Platinum album in America? Well, Taylor Swift's the only person now to

00:08:34   have done that this year, the only individual. So she is an outlier.

00:08:39   And it may be that music would have stopped being sold irrespective of

00:08:44   Spotify or something. Just because people would have moved to piracy which

00:08:47   they were anyway. So you know I think it's too soon to tell and we'll see if

00:08:53   Taylor Swift ends up like Led Zeppelin in a

00:08:57   couple of years time or not. But it wouldn't surprise me if these

00:09:00   streaming services end up being like Netflix which is not everything and

00:09:05   not the newest things but a nice selection if you want to dip into the

00:09:10   catalog but maybe not the new stuff and they do that specifically to try and

00:09:14   drive sales of the new stuff and you're right maybe that doesn't work maybe

00:09:17   people just pirated but I don't know it'll be interesting it'll be an

00:09:21   interesting to watch Brian Hamilton in the chat room pointed out that she wrote

00:09:25   an op-ed for the Wall Street Journal we'll put the link in the show notes I

00:09:29   in fact I already have but the the real way to read that article is to Google

00:09:34   for Taylor Swift the future of music is a love story and then click on the

00:09:40   search results because the Wall Street Journal will let you read it then and

00:09:43   otherwise they won't. Give it a shot. Just Google that. Anyway that was good that was good good real

00:09:52   world follow-up for a topic from a previous show. I wanted to mention the

00:09:56   true sign that that we have made it as a podcast Myke. Is there now two... I'm not

00:10:05   sure I'd call them parody accounts there are two Twitter accounts paying homage

00:10:10   to this podcast. It's true. This is a monumental day. Truly we live in

00:10:20   interesting times. So @ahoy_telephone is out there occasionally

00:10:26   barking commands to its telephone and I love this _manchego FM is now

00:10:34   out there for all of your Manchego cheese needs. So that's a tasty cheese.

00:10:41   Of which there are many.

00:10:43   Of which, yeah. And I think they're going to have some sort of fundraiser to get you

00:10:47   some Manchego.

00:10:48   There's been, I don't think we have any because it's kind of, we didn't need to cover it,

00:10:53   but we had quite a bit of Manchego cheese related follow up.

00:10:56   Yes. Yes. I didn't put that in the show notes. Suffice it to say, many people are trying

00:11:03   to get Myke some Manchego from Spain, which is just nearby. You don't have to go far at

00:11:11   all to get there. No, not at all. To Spain. You should probably jump on a train. Sure.

00:11:18   And then maybe another train. Yeah, you'd probably have to change trains at some point.

00:11:22   Then another train. After, yeah. But I'd get there. You could get there eventually. Take

00:11:26   bike, ride your bike through the countryside. I have a really nice bit of Kindle follow-up

00:11:34   from a listener who is, I've actually been on a podcast with this gentleman, it's Anzej

00:11:38   Tomic, he's from, okay he's not from Croatia, he's from Slovenia, but he vacations in Croatia

00:11:48   a lot and he said when the first Kindle 3G was made available they weren't in the EU and that

00:11:53   meant insane roaming charges. So he actually used his 3G Kindle to browse

00:11:58   and write email in Gmail on the experimental browser. It was slow and

00:12:03   awkward but nothing compared to the roaming charges. So he says it's not a

00:12:07   common use case but it was a way for him to get on the internet

00:12:12   internationally without paying an arm and a leg. And he still uses this

00:12:17   Croatia's in the EU so it's not so bad but in Serbia the same applies so when

00:12:23   he goes to Serbia he can use that until they eventually enter the EU. So I thought that

00:12:28   was really great from Anje who does a great podcast called Storming Mortal in English

00:12:35   and then he's also got a podcast I believe in Slovenian but that's a very limited audience

00:12:41   because there's only like four million people who speak it I think.

00:12:44   So the funny thing is like we've had shows like when Bionic was on Five by Five it was

00:12:49   number one in Slovenia like overall because Anse spoke about it. Yeah that

00:12:55   was that was Anse's own yeah that's exactly it well he has that power.

00:13:00   He controls it. He's like the godfather of iTunes in Slovenia. Very nice very

00:13:06   nice fellow AtomicXX on Twitter is his user account name I think.

00:13:13   Atomic XX because he is he's a Tomich so he's atomic it's pretty cool anyway

00:13:20   thank you to him for that also some Kindle follow-up from listener Brian who

00:13:26   we talked about auto loading books onto all your Kindles and he pointed out a

00:13:32   good reason why you wouldn't want to do that which is your entire family has

00:13:36   Kindles and you buy a book and you don't want to force that book onto everybody's

00:13:39   Kindle, I suppose that is, that's fair. But he points out something that is actually,

00:13:45   as somebody who just got a Kindle is a gripe that I have too, which is when you upgrade

00:13:49   to a new Kindle, you can't just point it at the library of the old Kindle, like in the

00:13:53   cloud and say, just give me all of the things that were on that other, there's no migration

00:13:58   to a new Kindle. You have to like either copy the files off via USB and put them back or

00:14:03   you have to just sort of manually go through and download them again. And that he's right.

00:14:09   silly. In the grand scheme of things it's not the worst thing because it only

00:14:11   happens when you buy a new Kindle but it's dumb and Amazon should probably do

00:14:16   better. Have you been enjoying a new Kindle? I have been. I've been I've been

00:14:20   reading I finished I finished a book I started another book. You published a

00:14:24   review as well? I did Six Colors my review is up now it was just dating I

00:14:30   think I've written it last week when we talked but hadn't added some things to

00:14:33   it and and Scott read it after he was on the show and and he said I can't believe

00:14:39   you even considered sending it back and I said well I didn't strongly consider

00:14:43   it but I did consider it because it was not as big a change as as I as I

00:14:48   expected but it's nice I like it and yeah I continue to read it but as was

00:14:52   established last week Scott is the he's the wrong person to talk to about such

00:14:56   things because no they could do nothing we just changed the name

00:15:03   I'll buy it. Yeah, it's his, he collects Kindles. It's a hobby that he has.

00:15:10   Also, we were talking about different tools, like there's a tool that lets you convert

00:15:14   EPUBs to, it does a lot of things, but one of the things it does is it'll convert EPUBs

00:15:18   into Mobi files that the Kindle can read. So if you've got an EPUB, you can put it on

00:15:22   a Kindle, even though it doesn't read that format, you can just convert it. And this

00:15:26   is a tool that for years and years and years, I called Calibre because it's spelled Calibre,

00:15:31   c-a-l-i-b-r-e. And in the last year I keep hearing people calling it Calibre and I thought

00:15:38   wow that is terrible that I have been mispronouncing that name all these years. And so last week

00:15:42   I referred to it as Calibre and listener Jeff points out that in the in the Calibre documentation

00:15:48   it makes it clear that it's pronounced Caliber and not Calibre. So don't do that and listener

00:15:54   Jeff also says hashtag how should I pronounce this hashtag GIF is still GIF or is it hashtag

00:16:01   GIF is still GIF. I don't know. Anyway, it's one of those.

00:16:07   I did hear you say it and thought, "That's definitely caliber." But I gave it to you.

00:16:14   I thought other people knew better than me after all that time. It's like, "Well, they

00:16:18   must know that why would you ever choose to pronounce it that way if that wasn't the name?"

00:16:21   And it turns out, I'm not going to name names of who I heard, but some fairly knowledgeable

00:16:25   people about ebooks referred to it that way. And I was like, "Well, that sounds... It certainly

00:16:28   sounds fancier than Calibre. So let's go with Calibre. No, it's not, it's just Calibre.

00:16:34   It's fine. It's a cool little utility. The UI is pretty atrociously ugly, but you know,

00:16:41   it works really well. So for converting ebooks and stuff, I'd definitely say check it out.

00:16:47   There's even a plugin that'll let you take your Kindle books and convert them to other

00:16:50   formats which is technically illegal because it's subverting the DRM, but you can do it.

00:16:56   It's a pretty high Calibre product.

00:16:59   - It is, it is.

00:17:00   I've rarely seen a product if it's Calibre.

00:17:03   (laughing)

00:17:05   So two more tweets and then we're done with a follow-up.

00:17:11   Listener Rick wrote in just to point out

00:17:14   and that we had heard a few of these.

00:17:16   I just wanna say it again.

00:17:17   PowerMax is a great company.

00:17:19   I've been buying and trading in my Max with them for years.

00:17:24   I got a few people, somebody said,

00:17:25   I can't believe Jason has never heard of PowerMax

00:17:28   or doesn't know what they are.

00:17:28   I actually have heard of PowerMax,

00:17:30   but this is one of those funny things

00:17:31   about being on a podcast, which is,

00:17:33   I'm hesitant in the moment to just endorse something.

00:17:38   If we're talking about, what I didn't want to have happen

00:17:40   is that I misremembered, and the company that I thought

00:17:44   I was talking about was not the company,

00:17:46   and we ended up recommending

00:17:47   some shady fly-by-night company

00:17:49   for buying remaindered old Macs on the podcast.

00:17:53   And so a lot of times when information like that comes up,

00:17:56   and I'm not 100% on it while we're recording a podcast,

00:17:59   I will kind of demur.

00:18:01   I will back up a little bit and be like, oh, maybe,

00:18:05   I don't know, rather than just agreeing.

00:18:08   Because there is a risk that if you say it

00:18:10   and you're totally wrong that bad things could happen.

00:18:13   So sometimes that happens.

00:18:15   And that's just the thing about podcasts

00:18:16   being kind of a first draft of your thoughts

00:18:20   and different than when you're writing something down

00:18:22   you spend time checking, you know, we're just talking and recording this and then

00:18:25   we'll post it and people will listen to it. So I actually, when I looked at the

00:18:29   site a little bit more I was like, oh yeah, I remember these guys, but at the

00:18:32   time it was happening fast enough that I didn't want to give an endorsement and

00:18:36   then have it be totally wrong for something that involved like buying

00:18:39   buying hardware because, you know, I'd like to have some idea of who the people

00:18:44   are before I say yes, give them thousands of dollars. So I may not need PowerMax

00:18:50   anymore. Ah yeah, let's take this as a this. Now we're in the mic's computer

00:18:55   vertical of the show, so tell me what's going on with you. So our good

00:19:01   friend, our mutual friend Mr. Marco Arment has recently been testing various

00:19:05   different microphones and USB interfaces and he's gonna he's gonna write it up

00:19:13   for his site, I believe, so I'm not gonna spoil it but we've been

00:19:17   talking because I have a vested interest in these things as well and he has

00:19:23   suggested to me to get a different interface than the one I currently have

00:19:27   which is a USB interface because he has tried it out with my microphone and the

00:19:33   microphone he uses and he suggests it and therefore I may be changing to a USB

00:19:41   interface which means I will no longer be restricted by the audio in audio out

00:19:46   because I won't have the option but the USB interface looks like it would do a

00:19:50   much better job at like a mere fraction of the size of the one that I currently

00:19:56   have so I may I may change to to that or I'm at least going to get one to try it

00:20:02   out because it's not that expensive really and then I may I may completely

00:20:07   I may go in a completely different direction I may even go with Retina

00:20:10   iMac who knows but I it will open up a little bit more to what I'll be able to

00:20:17   buy and I won't be restricted to just getting a now old Mac Mini. You could use

00:20:22   your your retina MacBook Pro. Yeah I still don't want to do that but yeah I could do

00:20:28   that if I wanted to I could do in a pinch I could but I'd still I'd still

00:20:31   want a separate machine I like the idea of having a separate machine. All right I

00:20:36   I thought you were gonna say that Marco's Mac Pro

00:20:38   is on the market.

00:20:40   - Oh yeah, I think it is, but I don't know if I want that.

00:20:45   I thought about it 'cause I'd seen him,

00:20:48   I'm sure I'd seen him somewhere say about

00:20:49   how much he was selling it for,

00:20:50   and it looked like an okay enough deal,

00:20:52   but then I'd have to get it here,

00:20:54   and that's where I would lose all of the money,

00:20:57   and then could just buy a new one if I really wanted it.

00:21:00   So yeah, basically I'm not gonna buy anything yet

00:21:04   because I don't know what decisions I'll be making soon.

00:21:08   - Okay, so we'll come back to this.

00:21:10   What you're saying is that you should stay tuned

00:21:11   for the next episode of what Myke's computer choice is,

00:21:15   vertical, inside, upgrade. - Yeah, it's the

00:21:16   computer choice vertical.

00:21:18   - Okay, good, all right, we'll keep an eye.

00:21:22   I used, at Macworld, we had a FireWire mixer

00:21:26   for a long time, and then we went to a USB mixer.

00:21:29   That was fine, that was fine.

00:21:33   The audio stuff is like a hole that you can go down

00:21:36   and never get back out.

00:21:37   You could literally go down in that hole forever

00:21:40   about like different processors and different microphones

00:21:43   and different interfaces.

00:21:45   And I'm sure there are, I mean, musicians do that,

00:21:48   but I'm sure the podcasters,

00:21:50   there are some podcasters down in that hole too.

00:21:53   So I see that I'm, you know, I actually had this,

00:21:57   this is not follow-up, but I had this happen.

00:22:00   I've been trying for a long time now

00:22:01   to figure out the best workflow to make sound effects

00:22:05   in a podcast that's happening on Skype.

00:22:06   Now you have a podcast that has sound effects, don't you?

00:22:10   - Yeah.

00:22:11   - So how do you do that?

00:22:13   Are you doing that analog?

00:22:14   Are you mixing that in?

00:22:15   - I am, I am.

00:22:16   - Yeah, so I figured it out

00:22:19   and it involves a piece of unreleased software.

00:22:22   I think it's announced, but not yet released.

00:22:24   So I don't know if I should even talk about,

00:22:29   well, anyway, so there's a piece of unannounced software

00:22:31   or unreleased already announced software

00:22:34   and a piece of software called SoundSiphon.

00:22:37   And if I use those together with the Soundboard app,

00:22:40   I can get it to work.

00:22:41   So I'm excited about that,

00:22:42   that I can actually do an all software sound effects

00:22:46   over Skype thing.

00:22:48   So I'll mention that some more, I think,

00:22:51   when that product is finally released.

00:22:53   It's been sort of touted for about a year now as coming out

00:22:56   and it is going to come out at some point,

00:22:58   but it's not out yet.

00:23:00   So I should probably wait and not get into the details.

00:23:03   But I did figure that out and that was exciting.

00:23:05   So, you know, that was my big step up

00:23:07   is doing it all in software

00:23:09   because the Mac's software sound stuff is not great.

00:23:14   - I'm very interested in that

00:23:15   because the setup that I have would not work

00:23:19   if I changed interface.

00:23:21   'Cause I kind of have this really weird way

00:23:24   of like taking the audio.

00:23:25   This is one of the reasons I want audio in, audio out.

00:23:27   I take the audio from the Mac, pass it into the mixer,

00:23:32   and then back in again.

00:23:33   - That's what we did in Macworld.

00:23:35   We had the microphone or the headphone jack

00:23:38   going into the board.

00:23:40   - Yep, that's what I have.

00:23:41   That's how I do it.

00:23:42   - Yeah, so you're just capturing your system audio.

00:23:45   - Yep.

00:23:45   - And yeah, yeah, that's what we did too.

00:23:48   But it can be done.

00:23:49   So we'll follow up on that one in a future show too,

00:23:51   'cause I would like to talk about some podcasting stuff.

00:23:55   But I wanna wait for that app that isn't out yet to be out

00:24:00   so that I can recommend it and endorse it and all of that.

00:24:04   - Is it definitely coming out?

00:24:06   - Yeah, I'll just say,

00:24:08   there's a new version of Audio Hijack coming out

00:24:10   and Rogue Amoeba has talked about it

00:24:11   and they've shown some glimpses of the interface

00:24:13   and I've been using it for a while and it's fantastic

00:24:16   and I can't wait for them to ship it.

00:24:18   And when that happens,

00:24:19   we'll talk about other ways of using it

00:24:22   'cause it's great.

00:24:24   but it's not out yet.

00:24:25   So there's no point other than me going in

00:24:29   and I've got the new audio hijack.

00:24:31   It doesn't do any good for anybody,

00:24:32   but they're working on it.

00:24:33   It looks great.

00:24:34   It's gonna come out

00:24:35   and then we can talk about it some more.

00:24:37   Really quick follow up from listener Brad,

00:24:42   which is just,

00:24:42   we were talking about TestFlight the other week.

00:24:45   And he asked if we could talk a little bit

00:24:47   about having a beta app from TestFlight

00:24:49   and how it interacts with the released version.

00:24:51   My understanding is that it just overwrites it.

00:24:54   It knows the app ID.

00:24:57   And unless the developer is running the beta

00:24:59   on like a different ID,

00:25:00   I think it just overwrites it.

00:25:03   And so like when I upgraded my Twitter-ific

00:25:06   to the beta in TestFlight,

00:25:09   it was still in my doc where I leave it.

00:25:12   It's still there with the little circle,

00:25:14   the little orange or whatever it is,

00:25:15   circle next to it that says it's a beta.

00:25:17   So it just does it, boom.

00:25:21   it just pops it right in there.

00:25:22   It knows it's the same app, even though it's a beta.

00:25:25   - There is an interesting thing I've noticed

00:25:27   that there's like a ticking clock on all of them.

00:25:30   You know, it has like 30 days.

00:25:31   - Oh yeah, 30 days.

00:25:32   You can't just have an endless beta,

00:25:33   which is probably good.

00:25:34   I've run betas accidentally for a long time after.

00:25:38   That's not good.

00:25:39   So I think that's kind of cool,

00:25:42   that you can either be on the beta train

00:25:44   and getting the new betas or the beta will expire

00:25:46   and you need to go back to the App Store version.

00:25:49   And then there was just one last piece of follow-up,

00:25:53   which is an interesting one, because this is from S Williams, Scott Williams,

00:25:58   and he mentioned about how it took 24 hours from uploading a build

00:26:03   to passing it for review for a test flight beta,

00:26:05   but in his opinion, that's too long.

00:26:07   And that's interesting, because I hadn't thought of it that way.

00:26:09   We've been previously saying, "Oh, how great, you know,

00:26:11   24 hours is perfectly fine," but maybe you just want to get it out immediately,

00:26:18   which is what you're used to. So 24 hours is 24 hours longer than 10 seconds.

00:26:23   You know? Right. And I just thought it was a really interesting way of looking at it. Like, yes,

00:26:29   yes it is only 24 hours. However, 24 hours is, you know, that's a day longer than you would have had

00:26:36   to wait before. You get all of the extra features of that. And, you know, hockey app is still out

00:26:43   there, so people can still use hockey if they want the completely third-party approach there.

00:26:46   The idea of Apple's test light is that it's got all these other advantages going for it,

00:26:53   including the linking it to an ID instead of a device ID.

00:26:57   But yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it goes and if it settles down over time and

00:27:01   if the stories we heard about it, the first approval taking a few hours or a day and then

00:27:07   future approvals being almost instantaneous.

00:27:10   Anyway.

00:27:11   I do think though my experience remains like that it is superior I think in some ways.

00:27:18   It's just easier, it's so much easier and I feel like the apps that I'm currently testing on,

00:27:24   they're issuing new builds as quick as, as frequently as when I've been on hockey or on the previous test flight.

00:27:32   And there are a lot of simple things that I quite like.

00:27:37   Alright, so that's half an hour of follow-up, half of my hour of being the man of the hour

00:27:42   is now gone, but I think, in order to, before we move on to a topic, I, Myke, I would like

00:27:48   to hear from a friend. I need to hear from a friend right now.

00:27:52   The actual people behind this app are a friend. Me and Jason had eaten breakfast at Ool with

00:27:59   Hans, who is from Idion. Now, Idion are the makers of an app called The Converted, which

00:28:05   is a fantastic name for an application.

00:28:08   And this episode of Upgrade is brought to you by the app.

00:28:10   The converted is a unique unit converter for iOS.

00:28:15   This app is the best way to convert numbers

00:28:17   since the measuring cup, as it's based on that very thing.

00:28:21   The measuring cup in your cupboard,

00:28:23   with markings for ounces, liters, tablespoons, et cetera,

00:28:27   or the thermometer on your wall,

00:28:29   both represent information in a scale, right?

00:28:31   So they have this scale that you can look up

00:28:33   and you convert the unit conversions

00:28:35   by looking at the scale.

00:28:36   They give a very clear and highly visual representation

00:28:39   of how units relate, and developer Idion realized

00:28:43   that this might work for other types of units too,

00:28:45   so they made the converted.

00:28:48   The converted is perfect for getting a quick conversion

00:28:50   of units when you're abroad, working with people overseas,

00:28:53   or you just want some sort of quick unit conversion.

00:28:56   You get a real easy sense of how currency can be related

00:29:01   between US dollars and Euros for example,

00:29:04   but also for things in the metric or imperial system too.

00:29:07   There's a total of 481 units that you can use,

00:29:10   including all currencies and hundreds of others

00:29:13   across 21 different categories like power,

00:29:16   energy, fuel consumption, and more.

00:29:19   This is all done without the need of a keypad.

00:29:21   It's a real great interface,

00:29:22   which is clearly designed for iOS

00:29:24   that features swiping and zooming

00:29:26   and loads of pinch navigation gestures.

00:29:28   You basically open the app

00:29:30   and you can set the category you want,

00:29:32   like you can pinch apart to select the categories,

00:29:35   and then you're shown, I'll use the easy ones,

00:29:38   so US dollars to Great British pounds.

00:29:41   So if US dollars on one side,

00:29:42   Great British pounds on the other side.

00:29:43   And you see on like a scale how they relate to each other.

00:29:47   So like 400 US dollars is 200 pounds, for example.

00:29:52   You kind of see them next to each other,

00:29:55   and you can zoom in, and as you zoom in,

00:29:57   like the gaps between the numbers get smaller and smaller,

00:29:59   instead of it being like gaps of hundreds, it's gaps of tens, all the way to one.

00:30:03   And you just scroll up and down and you can very easily and visually just see how the two things compare.

00:30:08   You don't need to enter in a keyboard or anything like that.

00:30:10   It's really a great way to just jump in and get a quick sort of comparison between two different units.

00:30:16   It also cleverly uses location awareness and this helps you find the currency you're looking for when you're abroad.

00:30:21   When you're in Spain finding some Manchego cheese, you can very easily find out what the Euro is to the dollar.

00:30:27   So you can buy your main Chico Cheese at a good price.

00:30:30   And the converted has recently been updated to the TodayView extension.

00:30:33   It shows the most current conversion that's in the app.

00:30:36   So it's just a quick way of getting that and then you're right there in your TodayView

00:30:39   and you can jump right into the app by just a tap.

00:30:42   The converted is available in the App Store right now as a universal app.

00:30:46   And you should go check it out by going to theconverted.co.

00:30:50   Thank you so much to the converted by Idion for supporting this show and RelayFM.

00:30:54   fan. So there we go. Thank you so much. They are a friend. They're a new friend.

00:30:59   Yes, they are. A new upgrade friend. Mm-hmm.

00:31:04   Okay, well, Myke, how would you like to spend the next half hour?

00:31:10   However you want, sir. I thought we would talk, so okay. I got my

00:31:17   my retina iMac last week while I was in Arizona and it sat in a box in my office for four

00:31:25   days. And I told people this and they didn't realize that I wasn't at home and they're

00:31:30   like, "I'm amazed by your self-restraint that you haven't taken out of the box already."

00:31:34   It's like, "No, no, no, you don't understand. I'm hundreds of miles away from it." And sure

00:31:37   enough when I got home within five minutes that box was open.

00:31:41   It's not self-restraint, it's location restraint.

00:31:44   That's right. This is one of the great ways to practice self-restraint is drive yourself

00:31:47   or fly yourself somewhere far away and then you've got the restraint.

00:31:51   It's like not buying stuff that's bad for you at the store.

00:31:55   Like you know, if it's in, and this is true for me, if it's in the house, if it's in the

00:31:58   cupboards, the refrigerator, I'm in deep, deep trouble.

00:32:03   But I have no problem just not buying it at the store.

00:32:05   I have good supermarket willpower, but bad refrigerator willpower.

00:32:10   So this is a little bit like that with me and electronics.

00:32:13   Like if there's a gadget in the house, in a box, I just have to open it.

00:32:17   I can't, I have to open it right then.

00:32:20   So I did when I got back on Thursday and set it up.

00:32:23   And I, you know, I'm now speaking to you,

00:32:25   I'm sitting at my desk and I've got this,

00:32:27   I've got the iMac sitting here and it's all hooked up

00:32:30   and going great.

00:32:31   So I took a picture because what's interesting about it is

00:32:34   after using the review unit from Apple,

00:32:36   which was just a standard stock configuration iMac,

00:32:40   I went back, I put that,

00:32:42   I moved that to the table behind me

00:32:44   and put my laptop setup back up,

00:32:46   which is a 24 inch Dell monitor on an ARM

00:32:49   and my MacBook Air in a 12 South Bookarc.

00:32:54   And I hooked it all back up.

00:32:57   And I had that moment of, "Oh, this isn't retina."

00:33:00   But also I had that moment of, "Hey, my desk is back."

00:33:03   Because the iMac with its foot sitting on the desk

00:33:06   and you usually have it fairly close

00:33:08   to the front of your desk, or at least I do.

00:33:11   I have this whole nice desk behind it

00:33:13   that is completely invisible when I'm sitting at my desk

00:33:16   because the iMac is just dominating and it's like a wall

00:33:19   and there's a little bit of space underneath,

00:33:20   but you can't really see it.

00:33:22   And I had that moment where I realized,

00:33:25   I'm really liking having my monitor on an arm,

00:33:28   which I've had since I set up this desk,

00:33:30   I've had this 24 inch Dell monitor floating on an arm.

00:33:34   And I really liked that.

00:33:36   So I bought the iMac with the VESA mount on the back

00:33:40   instead of the foot.

00:33:42   And my thought process there was pretty simple

00:33:44   is we talked about the idea of,

00:33:46   could you convert an iMac into a Visa mountable thing?

00:33:49   And there are adapters for that,

00:33:50   but the foot just kind of floats in the air.

00:33:54   'Cause it doesn't, you can't take it off.

00:33:55   It just kind of is floating there.

00:33:57   And I thought that was kind of dumb.

00:33:58   And I realized that if at the end of the day,

00:34:01   this iMac goes somewhere and needs to have a stand

00:34:06   and sit on a stand, they make Visa mountable stands.

00:34:10   You just put on, you know,

00:34:11   it's a stand that attaches to the Visa mounts

00:34:13   and then you've got to stand for the computer.

00:34:15   So that probably is its fate one day.

00:34:18   But for now I've got it on this arm,

00:34:20   the same arm that I got when I got the desk

00:34:22   and attached the Dell monitor to,

00:34:23   took four screws, screwed, you know,

00:34:25   unscrewed the one monitor and screwed on the iMac

00:34:28   and I had to increase the tension on the arm a little bit

00:34:31   'cause the iMac is definitely heavier

00:34:33   than the Dell monitor was.

00:34:35   So after that and talking about putting the iMac

00:34:39   on an arm versus not, I thought I would take a picture.

00:34:41   So I took a picture and put it on Twitter and just said,

00:34:44   I'm acting on an arm and proceeded into something

00:34:49   that only Twitter can do,

00:34:50   which is the like Zapruder film like analysis

00:34:54   of every object.

00:34:56   I knew it was gonna happen,

00:34:57   but of every single object that is in that picture.

00:35:01   - Well, I'm gonna do that to you now.

00:35:02   So people can get the audio version of such a thing.

00:35:07   I had a couple of questions.

00:35:11   The main question I had is,

00:35:13   is the iMac not too close to your face?

00:35:18   - Well, when I took that picture,

00:35:21   it was not in a real working setup.

00:35:24   Like my old laptop is still there because I'm attached.

00:35:28   You can actually see the white thunderbolt cable

00:35:31   coming out of the laptop and going into the iMac

00:35:34   'cause I was doing my migration.

00:35:35   And I literally had nothing else to do

00:35:37   because I was migrating and my old system

00:35:40   of my new system were both inaccessible,

00:35:41   so I tweeted pictures instead.

00:35:43   So normally I think it would be,

00:35:46   I'm still trying to work out exactly

00:35:48   what the right position is, but yeah,

00:35:49   it's partly I think that picture is not accurate

00:35:53   about the geometry there, and partly I think

00:35:56   that it's a little too close.

00:35:59   That was not an actual workspace.

00:36:02   At some point I should probably take a picture

00:36:03   when I get this all settled of my actual workspace

00:36:06   as I use it every day,

00:36:09   but that wasn't what this was meant to reflect.

00:36:11   So yeah, I think it's probably a little bit too close.

00:36:15   It's much further away from me right now

00:36:16   as I record this than it is in that picture.

00:36:20   - And so now you're using the Retina iMac, right?

00:36:25   So you've been using it for a few days,

00:36:27   so you maybe don't have a sense for this yet,

00:36:30   but obviously when you were using the MacBook Air plugged in

00:36:35   the MacBook Air was driving everything,

00:36:36   so that's where everything was.

00:36:38   So when you now are away from the desk and you're working,

00:36:44   so maybe you're on holiday or something like that,

00:36:47   are you not concerned that those two machines

00:36:51   will now be kind of out of sync of each other?

00:36:54   - Yeah, I have not really used the MacBook Air

00:36:57   since I migrated, and so I think that's the question.

00:37:01   My plan is that it's for travel,

00:37:02   And also like, if I wanna do something,

00:37:05   I'm hoping that this will let me do a little bit more

00:37:08   of the I'm closing the door, I'm not in the office.

00:37:11   And then if I wanna do something on laptop,

00:37:13   be like write a, work on my novel or something like that,

00:37:17   that I could do that on the air and also travel with it.

00:37:19   So I haven't worked through all the changes,

00:37:21   but I'm gonna use Dropbox

00:37:23   because that's mostly what I use anyway.

00:37:24   And I'll put key files in Dropbox.

00:37:26   And it is essentially an out of date clone of my iMac now,

00:37:31   because that's where it migrated from.

00:37:34   So it's got all the stuff.

00:37:36   And yeah, that'll drift a little bit over time.

00:37:38   And I'll probably delete some stuff over

00:37:39   on the MacBook Air because there's no point

00:37:42   in having it there.

00:37:43   But I already use Dropbox for a lot of stuff

00:37:45   and put most of my key stuff in Dropbox.

00:37:47   So like most of the stories I write,

00:37:48   I save them into Dropbox while I'm working on them.

00:37:51   So if I went and opened up that laptop,

00:37:54   Dropbox would sync and I would have that story on Dropbox too.

00:37:57   And actually my BP edit application support folder

00:38:00   is in Dropbox, because that's supported by BB Edit.

00:38:03   So even the BB Edit preferences and clippings

00:38:06   and things like that stay in sync across the machines.

00:38:09   I used to do that.

00:38:10   I used to have an iMac at work.

00:38:12   And I had my MacBook at home.

00:38:15   And so I used to be in a scenario like this,

00:38:18   where I used Dropbox a lot for things like stories

00:38:23   I was working on and stuff like that.

00:38:25   - Is that an Apple remote on the desk?

00:38:28   - Yeah.

00:38:30   Somebody who was, I think Dave Zatz, Zatz not funny,

00:38:33   noticed that, yeah.

00:38:36   Yeah, that's the white Apple.

00:38:37   I do have some of the silver Apple remotes,

00:38:38   but this is just,

00:38:39   I have like 10 of these little white Apple remotes.

00:38:41   So that's what that is.

00:38:42   And there's a reason that's there, Myke.

00:38:44   If you look sort of in the far corner of the desk,

00:38:46   you may see an interesting object.

00:38:48   - An iPod Hi-Fi.

00:38:50   - It is an iPod Hi-Fi. - I just thought it was

00:38:51   a box. (laughs)

00:38:52   - No, that's an iPod Hi-Fi.

00:38:54   As I think I mentioned on the show before.

00:38:56   - You did, I remember.

00:38:58   I have an iPod Hi-Fi with the AUX,

00:39:00   it has an AUX in plug on the back.

00:39:02   So even though the dock connector

00:39:04   uses the old FireWire charging method,

00:39:07   and so even if you've got a thing with a dock connector,

00:39:09   it won't actually charge it unless you use another adapter,

00:39:13   which is not, I mean, just forget it,

00:39:14   but there's an AUX port on the back.

00:39:16   So I just have a plug plugged into the iPod Hi-Fi.

00:39:21   And then I actually, for the MacBook Air,

00:39:23   I had this Belkin Thunderbolt dock,

00:39:26   And I'm still using it because I bought it

00:39:29   for the MacBook Air because it gave me gigabit ethernet

00:39:33   and video, like video out and USB ports

00:39:38   and just, and audio out and all this stuff

00:39:41   where I could just plug all of the cables

00:39:43   into the Thunderbolt dock.

00:39:45   And only, I only had to plug one thing.

00:39:48   I plugged power and the Thunderbolt cable

00:39:51   into my MacBook Air.

00:39:52   And then that was it.

00:39:53   the monitor turned on, all the USB lit up,

00:39:56   the audio out was set, it was great.

00:40:00   And it's plugged in, the audio out on the Thunderbolt dock

00:40:04   is plugged into the iPod Hi-Fi.

00:40:06   So that's what I use to play music and stuff while I work.

00:40:10   And sometimes when I'm editing podcasts too,

00:40:12   rather than putting on headphones,

00:40:14   I'll just have the audio going and do that.

00:40:17   And I'm actually still using that with the iMac,

00:40:20   mostly out of clutter.

00:40:22   I'm gonna try to reduce my cable clutter,

00:40:24   which is another thing people noticed in this picture.

00:40:28   And then the cool thing since I have the Thunderbolt dock

00:40:30   is it's the same thing.

00:40:31   I have one black Thunderbolt cable running to the iMac

00:40:35   instead of multiple USBs and an audio plug

00:40:40   and an ethernet plug.

00:40:42   And I'm actually thinking I'm gonna tuck that Thunderbolt

00:40:45   dock like under the desk, like attach it,

00:40:47   like stick it under the desk or something

00:40:49   so that I don't even see it.

00:40:51   and it's just, yeah, it's just velcroed underneath.

00:40:54   I would never recommend that somebody buy

00:40:57   a $200 Thunderbolt dock or whatever it is

00:40:59   as a cord control mechanism,

00:41:03   but since I have it, I may stick with it, we'll see.

00:41:07   - If people wanna see these images, by the way,

00:41:10   they're in our show notes, which are relay.fm/upgrade/nine.

00:41:15   I really like that there is both a brain and a drill

00:41:17   next to each other in the corner.

00:41:19   - Oh yeah, that's a screwdriver.

00:41:21   It's a cordless screwdriver.

00:41:22   It's not a drill.

00:41:23   It's not that powerful.

00:41:24   It's just a screwdriver.

00:41:25   It's what I use to mount the iMac on the VISA screws.

00:41:29   And then next to it, yes, as mentioned in previous podcasts,

00:41:32   the Nerf brain ball, one of my collection

00:41:35   of Nerf brain balls is on the desk.

00:41:37   It's in my hands right now.

00:41:38   Several upgrade listeners noticed that.

00:41:41   I'm not lying.

00:41:42   Although this gives it scale,

00:41:43   'cause you can see it compared to the MacBook Air

00:41:45   and realize that this is not a small, like, foam brain ball.

00:41:50   This is a large one.

00:41:52   I can, yeah, it's big.

00:41:54   It's like the size of a human brain, or even bigger.

00:41:58   - I'd first imagined like a stress toy type size,

00:42:03   you know, like a one-handed,

00:42:04   and then you sent me pictures of the big brain,

00:42:07   and I was like, wow, okay, that wasn't what I expected.

00:42:09   - Yeah, I had a foam little stress toy brain,

00:42:12   but that's like a quarter of the size of the brain ball.

00:42:15   Brain ball, literally, it's basically the size of my hand.

00:42:19   If I put my palm out flat, the brain ball is the size of the,

00:42:23   and this is the, we're in the brain ball vertical now, Myke.

00:42:27   - And I must say that your keyboard

00:42:30   doesn't look very clacky.

00:42:32   - No, so a bunch of people asked about my keyboard,

00:42:36   a lot of comments about the fact that it had black keys.

00:42:39   It's the Logitech Bluetooth Easy Switch keyboard

00:42:44   and I like it. It's a nice keyboard. It has the same feel as the Apple keyboards.

00:42:49   It's got three different Bluetooth modes so I can switch it around to use

00:42:54   multiple

00:42:55   to be a

00:42:57   device attached to multiple

00:42:59   devices so I move into another room and press another button and then it's my

00:43:03   iPad keyboard

00:43:05   if I wanted to so I could take it with me and do it that way.

00:43:08   I'm just used to writing on the - I'm not a clacky keyboard guy, I'm used to writing

00:43:11   on a laptop keyboard, and so having some continuity with a laptop keyboard is valuable to me.

00:43:18   And I like it better, I think, than the Apple keyboards.

00:43:20   I do have the Apple Bluetooth keyboard, but I think I like this one better.

00:43:25   So do you actually use that feature much?

00:43:27   The switch between?

00:43:30   I think I use it - I think I do it more accidentally than not, but I have a Mac Mini attached to

00:43:35   the TV in my living room and it's nice to be able to just walk in there and press the

00:43:39   button and have it work instead of having to pair it or, you know, or find a USB keyboard

00:43:46   and attach it or anything like that. So that part is nice but it's not really necessary.

00:43:51   I mostly have it because it's rechargeable and the keys are pretty nice. I mean that's

00:43:58   really it. I do have, I have had clacky keyboards in the past. I actually have an Apple Extended

00:44:03   keyboard and a USB/ADB converter here somewhere but I'm mostly used to typing.

00:44:10   I can type like 110 words per minute on this thing so I'm okay.

00:44:13   Is there anything?

00:44:14   And a trackpad, Magic Trackpad too.

00:44:17   Yeah, why do you use the Magic Trackpad on a mouse?

00:44:19   I know this is like a...

00:44:20   I know there's a whole show there isn't there?

00:44:24   I really, well part of it is continuity.

00:44:28   As somebody who has used a laptop a lot and throughout my house, that MacBook Air has

00:44:35   been my main system.

00:44:36   I mean, I've had a MacBook Air as my main system for three or four years now.

00:44:41   So I do all my editing.

00:44:44   All of my muscle memory is trackpad and laptop keyboard based.

00:44:50   And so I was always like a trackball guy, not a mouse guy anyway.

00:44:54   And so the movements are similar.

00:44:56   And really it's that continuity that when I sit down at my desk, I'm using the same

00:45:01   kind of muscle memory that I would use if I was editing a podcast on a plane.

00:45:06   If I'm editing a podcast on a plane or editing it at this desk, I'm still doing all of the

00:45:11   -- and it's great for stuff like that because the pinch and zoom for moving around in and

00:45:17   out on a timeline in Logic or something like that is actually pretty great.

00:45:21   So I've gotten used to it.

00:45:22   I think that's really the bottom line is I know that's what Apple says, but I think it's

00:45:26   true that I've gotten so used to using a trackpad now that I might as well just use it all the

00:45:31   time.

00:45:34   So do you have anything else that you would like to note and/or defend about your setup?

00:45:41   Let's see, what else did people notice?

00:45:43   I want to defend about people who are complaining about the cable clutter, and there are a lot

00:45:48   of cords here.

00:45:49   This is a migration scenario, so one is there's more cords there than normal because I had

00:45:55   to pull a bunch of things out and plug a bunch of new things in.

00:45:59   And also part of that is whenever you get a new computer, the last thing you do is tie

00:46:05   all the cables down right away because you don't know how you're going to use it.

00:46:10   You know, I was just migrating.

00:46:11   It was literally the beginning of the process.

00:46:13   So I have hopes to make the cable clutter reduce somewhat and we'll get there.

00:46:19   I've never been a totally like crazy, like John Syracuse sees my workspaces and just

00:46:25   shakes his head sadly and walks on because it's just, it's a, you know, he's a very,

00:46:29   a very diligent kind of guy and I've never been that diligent.

00:46:33   That that all said, I would like to, to reduce the clutter in my office as much as I can

00:46:41   And I'd really been waiting for the iMac to come and get it set up and then do some new

00:46:47   work to reduce the number of cables that are floating around.

00:46:49   I mean, it is still an unfinished garage in some ways, and so I've got like concrete and

00:46:54   other things that are not ideal.

00:46:56   But in a lot of ways, it's pretty close to being just a solid regular old office now.

00:47:01   So it's time for me to get some little Velcro ties and maybe some double-sided Velcro tape

00:47:08   and other things and some other cord control stuff to reduce that. Also it's a sit-stand

00:47:14   desk so all of the cord stuff that I have, I have to have enough slack in the cords that

00:47:21   it works when the desk is up. So you need to have enough length in the cords for when

00:47:26   it's in the high position and then when it's down in the low position there is extra cable

00:47:30   just kind of floating around and that's just how it is. So that's life. So yes it will

00:47:35   be less awful than it looks here but I can't guarantee that it will be super

00:47:39   pristine Johnny Ive approved desk material. There's a coaster on the desk

00:47:44   that's very exciting. There's a thermometer on the desk so I can see how

00:47:48   cold it is and turn on my little space heater when I need to. And then...

00:47:53   I think you're using a Uni-ball Sino 207.

00:47:59   I don't know what you're even talking about now. Is that a pen? Did you just

00:48:02   call out my pen?

00:48:04   uh-huh it's not a call out I just think that's what you're using

00:48:08   it okay Myke first off here's the pen

00:48:11   yeah it's in that photo does that excite you to hear pens? Sure

00:48:16   am I right? Are you the pen addict or is somebody else the pen addict?

00:48:19   I'm not the pen addict Brad is the pen addict. Brad is the pen addict

00:48:22   the title character in the podcast of the same name

00:48:26   okay it's a pilot G2. Oh terrible

00:48:30   terrible no I'm not the pen addict no no I'm terrible

00:48:33   Oh, okay. You're identifying them.

00:48:35   I named it incorrectly but knew what one it was because that was the pen that I used to

00:48:39   use. I like it.

00:48:41   I love the G2. The G2 is a great pen. I hope you use a 0.7.

00:48:46   Pen vertical. This is the...

00:48:49   Pen Addict Vertical of the upgrade.

00:48:51   05? I don't know. It's uh, yeah, I like those gel pens. They're fine. I'm not a pen nerd

00:48:56   either. I'm not a pen nerd but when I saw all the pen nerds talking about gel pens,

00:49:00   I got some gel pens and I thought, oh yeah, okay.

00:49:02   - Yeah, no, you made the right choice.

00:49:04   - 'Cause I used to have those pens that were,

00:49:07   they had the reservoir that you could actually see,

00:49:11   the ink reservoir, and then they had the little metal tip

00:49:15   at the front and they weren't clicky, they had a cap.

00:49:17   I forget, they were very popular for a long time.

00:49:19   I still have some around.

00:49:20   And I used those and I liked those,

00:49:23   but they also smeared, the ink smeared

00:49:25   when you started writing and all that,

00:49:26   and the gel pens are pretty awesome.

00:49:28   So that's my pen addict vertical right there.

00:49:33   - Brad's gonna be so upset at me when he hears this.

00:49:35   (laughing)

00:49:37   - So you noticed the pen, that's good.

00:49:39   You're being well-trained.

00:49:40   I often have Dungeons and Dragons dice on there

00:49:43   from when we play D&D on the Total Party Kill podcast,

00:49:45   but they weren't on there for this.

00:49:47   I got a couple of San Francisco Giants pens

00:49:48   in the background, including the one I got

00:49:50   when I was like seven years old,

00:49:51   which shows an actual giant swinging a bat

00:49:54   at Candlefoot Park. - Oh, I see him.

00:49:55   I see him, there he is.

00:49:56   He's a giant.

00:49:58   People say they don't have a really tall guy

00:50:01   as their mascot, but in this pennant,

00:50:02   they've got a giant guy.

00:50:03   - If they were almost that big, it'd be really unfair.

00:50:07   - I've got my Heil PL2T boom with a blue Yeti microphone

00:50:12   that I'm speaking into right now and a little pop filter

00:50:16   on it, you can see it over there on the left.

00:50:18   And then that's about it.

00:50:20   On the walls, there's a corner of a movie poster

00:50:22   that's the real genius movie poster.

00:50:25   And on the right, people asked about this,

00:50:27   that's a framed copy of the first cover of Macworld

00:50:30   and the 20th anniversary cover of Macworld

00:50:34   that the company that owns Brown printing,

00:50:36   it's Brown printing, the printing press for Macworld

00:50:38   for that entire time and for its entire print run,

00:50:41   sent that to the president of the company

00:50:44   for 20 years of working with Macworld.

00:50:46   And I thought that was nice.

00:50:49   The president of the company gave it to me

00:50:51   and I took it with me when I left.

00:50:53   So it's on my wall.

00:50:55   And that is the Zapruder-like analysis

00:50:58   of a picture of my desk.

00:51:00   - Well, we can do it to mine.

00:51:01   'Cause I've put a picture in the shot of my desk.

00:51:06   - All right, so let's talk.

00:51:07   So the premise here is not just to do

00:51:08   the Zapruder-esque analysis of images,

00:51:11   but to, for people who don't know,

00:51:13   the Zapruder film is that film of the Kennedy assassination

00:51:15   that everybody looks at frame by frame.

00:51:17   That's where that comes from.

00:51:18   It's that I am now,

00:51:20   this is now my new workspace that I'm building.

00:51:22   and you now have, are not in a workspace at your office

00:51:27   because you have left your employment

00:51:29   and we are both gentlemen of leisure now.

00:51:31   - I like to call it fun employment.

00:51:33   - Yeah, sure, that's right, that's right.

00:51:36   And so I think it's interesting how we now no longer

00:51:41   have the warm embrace of an employer to tell us

00:51:44   where to sit and what to use and all of that

00:51:46   and we have to set our own workspaces up.

00:51:48   So I thought this would be,

00:51:49   I know this is a little Mac Power Users and a little, I don't know what, a little Merlin

00:51:55   Man, we should have had Merlin Man on to consult about this, but I've got your picture open

00:52:00   now, so I'm analyzing it.

00:52:03   There's a beverage.

00:52:04   There is, I'm going to give you some time to analyze it.

00:52:06   Okay.

00:52:07   Are you going to tell me about a friend?

00:52:08   I'm going to tell you about our friends at Igloo.

00:52:10   Igloo make an internet you'll actually like.

00:52:13   Igloo, do this.

00:52:14   They make something you're going to like because they make it easy to use and they integrate

00:52:17   apps like shared calendars, Twitter like micro blogs, they incorporate file sharing, task

00:52:22   management and so much more. Igloo make it easy to work with your co-workers and they

00:52:28   make it even easier to work even better with them. You can share documents together, so

00:52:33   you can co-author documents, you can share status updates about what's going on in the

00:52:37   break room today. Maybe you want to say this is my lunch, don't touch my lunch, where you

00:52:42   do all that in igloo with the microblog stuff that you have.

00:52:47   And you can also manage your projects all in one place so you can actually get some

00:52:50   work done as well, not just talk about what's happening in the conference room or the break

00:52:53   room.

00:52:54   When somebody changes an item, so they change a document in igloo, notifications are sent

00:52:58   or maybe they update a task and notifications are sent out.

00:53:02   And this is all done in the way that you choose.

00:53:04   So you can say I want to be notified here and here, I don't want to be notified about

00:53:07   this.

00:53:08   You have granular access to make sure you can go in and just get the notifications that

00:53:12   want. And when people are making changes to a document, a complete version history is

00:53:16   maintained. This keeps everyone in sync and makes sure that Crazy Bob doesn't accidentally

00:53:20   delete that GIF from the presentation you've been working on, because you can go in and

00:53:24   restore it, because Bob doesn't like GIFs because he likes them to be called GIFs, but

00:53:28   this way you can make sure that Bob won't win.

00:53:32   Also recently, Gartner released their famed Magic Quadrant for Social Software in the

00:53:37   the workplace report, and igloo appears on this report for the sixth consecutive year

00:53:41   alongside Microsoft, IBM, Google, and SAP. This is an excerpt from Gartner's profile.

00:53:48   Feedback from igloo's reference customers was consistently positive. They praised the

00:53:51   product's quick deployment, configuration, and customisation flexibility with self-service

00:53:56   options for non-technical users, control over branding and information organisation, and

00:54:01   ease of use. They also praised the responsiveness of igloo as an organisation. If hearing that

00:54:07   excites you then you should be trying out igloo because if you hear that and

00:54:11   you're like "oh I need that" then you should be trying it out. If it doesn't

00:54:14   excite you let me tell you about some other things. So all of igloo is built

00:54:18   with responsive web design in mind so anything that you can do on any machine

00:54:21   you can do on all machines. So if you've ever used some sort of internet software

00:54:27   or maybe you've been using SharePoint for a while you know how amazing this is

00:54:30   that you'll actually be able to get some real work done and access your full

00:54:33   corporate internet from your phone. And I say corporate internet, you can put anything

00:54:37   in there and people do. I've seen examples of different igloos that the guys at igloo

00:54:41   have shown me where people are able to share just what they're up to on a daily basis as

00:54:47   well as actually get their work done. You can create little communities within your

00:54:50   igloo and have certain functionalities, that's in these ones and certain functionalities

00:54:54   in other ones depending on what's needed. You have full control over it. It's really

00:54:58   awesome and you should be trying it out and you should definitely be trying it out because

00:55:02   it's for free for up to 10 people and you can sign up right now at igloosoftware.com/upgrade

00:55:08   so it's free for up to 10 people. Thank you so much to igloo for their support of upgrade

00:55:13   and all of Real AFM and thank you for being such a good friend. On the Clockwise podcast last week,

00:55:19   I think it was last week, we had igloo as a sponsor and my sponsor read got away from me a little bit

00:55:26   and I started talking about how it was magic and I had to explain that it wasn't black magic,

00:55:29   It was more like good Harry Potter kind of magic.

00:55:31   It was very confusing.

00:55:33   And then Marco from Igloo saw our show notes,

00:55:37   which just said, "Brought to you by Igloo,"

00:55:40   you know, and the normal thing.

00:55:41   And then it said, "It's like magic, but not the bad kind."

00:55:42   And he said, "Oh, that's really funny."

00:55:44   I said, "Have you listened to the spot yet?"

00:55:45   He said, "No."

00:55:46   - Let's see if you change your mind.

00:55:49   - Yeah, I think he thought it was funny,

00:55:51   but that was a funny moment of me.

00:55:55   Like, yeah, you're doing an ad read and you're like,

00:55:57   like, "Well, what is happening to this?" as you're talking.

00:56:01   So anyway.

00:56:02   Ickly like it when you get a little bit crazy.

00:56:04   I think the podcast ads are more fun when everybody's having fun with it.

00:56:11   And I said it was good magic.

00:56:12   I didn't say it was black magic.

00:56:13   If they get very angry and they're like, "No, no, we're evil magic," then they should let

00:56:16   us know.

00:56:17   Yeah, I haven't received that feedback yet, but if I do, I'll let you know.

00:56:21   Then they can become an enemy sponsor instead.

00:56:23   Enemy of the podcast.

00:56:25   We are looking for an enemy sponsor, by the way.

00:56:28   It's available.

00:56:29   Somebody offered to pay $20 if we said a nice thing about Windows Vista.

00:56:32   A few people were trying to club together today to buy a sponsorship and be an enemy,

00:56:37   but I don't think it panned out.

00:56:39   That's another failed attempt to take over the world by the villains.

00:56:44   They didn't make it.

00:56:46   Only our friends made it.

00:56:47   Keep trying, enemies.

00:56:49   One day you'll make it.

00:56:50   We are actually about three minutes away from where I become the man of the hour, so it's

00:56:55   probably about the right time to talk about my workspace. I think it is. So here it is.

00:57:01   So I give a brief overview of what you can see here. So I have a Retina MacBook Pro there,

00:57:08   as you notice, that is open. And below it is a Microsoft keyboard. Yeah, it's one of

00:57:15   the ergonomic keyboards. The Microsoft... Natural keyboard, I think it's called. That's

00:57:20   - That's what Microsoft Natural Keyboard,

00:57:22   I don't know if keyboards naturally grow like that,

00:57:25   and that's why they call it the Natural Keyboard.

00:57:28   - It's not organic, it was raised with some additives,

00:57:32   but the organic keyboards are a little bit more expensive,

00:57:36   but they're totally only raised on organic.

00:57:38   - Oh, no, that is the Sculpt, not the Natural.

00:57:42   The Sculpt is the one that has the hole in the middle,

00:57:45   which is what mine has.

00:57:46   - Oh, I see, I see.

00:57:47   - Well, you know what Michelangelo said

00:57:50   is that every great keyboard starts as a block of granite,

00:57:53   but the great artist sees the keyboard within it.

00:57:56   - I'm sure he did say that.

00:57:58   (laughing)

00:58:00   - The sculpt, I tried.

00:58:01   Anyway, yeah, so you've got multiple keyboards.

00:58:03   You've got a little Apple wireless keyboard,

00:58:08   and you've got a Microsoft keyboard,

00:58:09   and then you've got your laptop on a stand with a keyboard.

00:58:12   - Yep, so I don't really,

00:58:14   I try to not use the one on the stand.

00:58:16   And I have all of this.

00:58:19   So I also have my MacBook on a little stand.

00:58:24   I can't remember the stand, I just found it on Amazon.

00:58:26   I just grabbed any stand that looked sturdy enough.

00:58:28   And I have a Magic Mouse there as well,

00:58:32   because I started to get some wrist pain.

00:58:34   And I spoke again to Marco Armin.

00:58:39   He's like the advisor of this week's episode.

00:58:41   'Cause I know he used this crazy keyboard,

00:58:45   and I asked him if he had had some wrist pain

00:58:48   and he said that he was moving towards that

00:58:50   and then completely changed everything.

00:58:52   So that's when I elevated the MacBook

00:58:55   and got all this stuff.

00:58:56   And it has been a lot better actually

00:58:57   since I started using this stuff.

00:58:59   But yeah, I have another keyboard.

00:59:02   That other keyboard is for the Mac Mini

00:59:04   which you can kind of see underneath

00:59:06   two different external hard drives.

00:59:09   - Oh yeah.

00:59:10   - So that Mac Mini there.

00:59:11   And then I have the Logitech mouse and a Magic Trackpad.

00:59:16   Now when I edit, I use both.

00:59:19   Ooh!

00:59:20   Yeah.

00:59:21   It blew my mind.

00:59:23   So when I'm in Logic, I am two-handed editing in Logic now.

00:59:29   That's crazy.

00:59:32   Because the mouse provides me with finer grain control to click and select things.

00:59:37   Plus it's also better, again, for the wrist.

00:59:40   But then I used the pinch and zoom gestures on the Magic Trackpad.

00:59:46   I don't even...

00:59:47   Wow.

00:59:48   That is, I've heard people say that they use the Magic Trackpad just for pinch and zoom

00:59:55   and then they use a mouse for everything else.

00:59:56   I guess you're people.

00:59:57   I wouldn't be using it if there was a way to get the pinch and zoom gesture into the

01:00:02   mouse there is not.

01:00:04   Like you can do it by like holding down some key commands and then using the wheel.

01:00:07   Yeah, like a control wheel or something?

01:00:08   Yeah, but it doesn't work very well. It's not as well tuned as the...

01:00:14   And also the gestures, you know, like the trackpad gestures.

01:00:17   Yeah.

01:00:18   You can't get them as easy with the mice. Even with the Magic Mouse, you can't get all of them.

01:00:23   Apple sent, when they had the review unit they sent me of the Retina iMac, it came with a Magic Mouse.

01:00:29   I thought, "Oh, I'll try this out." And within like five minutes, I was like, "I hate this thing."

01:00:32   I hate trying to access Mission Control because you have to double tap on the mouse,

01:00:38   but I never seem to do it in the right place.

01:00:40   And it never, it just,

01:00:41   it takes me multiple times to get it to work.

01:00:44   - So you've got, I mean,

01:00:46   I'm really witnessing this system that you've got,

01:00:47   where you've got your laptop that you use as a laptop,

01:00:50   just for, even though it's got an external keyboard,

01:00:53   it's for your notes and the web and things like that.

01:00:55   And then you've got the Mac mini with a monitor

01:00:58   and a keyboard and a mouse and a track pad

01:01:00   and below it a mixer.

01:01:02   And that's your podcasting setup.

01:01:05   And then you've got your microphone

01:01:07   on the boom arm with the pop filter.

01:01:09   So it's two computers on one desk.

01:01:14   What's in the cup?

01:01:16   What's that beverage?

01:01:17   - That is Dr. Pepper Zero.

01:01:18   - Okay, and there are field notes behind it too.

01:01:22   - Yeah. - People who are not looking

01:01:23   at the show notes are really missing out.

01:01:26   - There are field notes everywhere.

01:01:28   There's a pile of field notes

01:01:30   and then there's one tucked underneath the computer.

01:01:32   And then that big one is a big field notes.

01:01:34   That big field notes is what I actually use

01:01:36   to take notes as we record.

01:01:38   So I take timestamps, for example,

01:01:40   at minutes 12 and 14 and 39 and 23 seconds respectively,

01:01:45   there were some fireworks in the background here.

01:01:48   So I need to go into the file to cut them out.

01:01:50   - Oh, interesting.

01:01:52   - So there's a couple of other things.

01:01:53   So that monitor is actually a television.

01:01:56   - Yeah, I was gonna say it looks like a TV.

01:01:58   - Yeah, so the Mac Mini goes into there.

01:02:00   It's not the best, but I don't really use it for too much,

01:02:03   so I can live with it.

01:02:05   But also I have underneath a HDMI switcher,

01:02:08   that's what a little blue light is on that box.

01:02:11   And into that HDMI switcher going the Mac mini,

01:02:15   an Xbox and a PlayStation.

01:02:17   So they will go into there and then they go into the TV.

01:02:20   Right, so I use it for gaming too.

01:02:22   What else do I have here?

01:02:24   - So you use the TV on your desk to play games?

01:02:27   - Yes.

01:02:28   - Interesting.

01:02:35   I mean that makes perfect sense.

01:02:36   I'm just thinking of it as a workspace

01:02:39   and then having it also be a game space.

01:02:40   Just it's kind of funny that you got all your business there

01:02:43   and then when it's time for Myke to play some games

01:02:47   and leave the business world behind,

01:02:48   he doesn't really go anywhere.

01:02:50   - Just turns, I turn slightly.

01:02:52   - Turns the angle, you move from a business angle

01:02:55   to a gaming angle.

01:02:56   - Yeah, let's see how that plans out in the long run.

01:02:58   - All right.

01:02:59   - Because previously it hasn't really been

01:03:00   too much of a problem, but maybe it will become a problem.

01:03:04   - Now that this is your business?

01:03:07   - Yep.

01:03:08   - So do you edit on the Mac Mini or just record?

01:03:11   - No, I edit on the Mac Mini.

01:03:13   - So you're editing podcasts on a TV?

01:03:15   - Yeah.

01:03:16   - Huh.

01:03:17   - Yeah, it's on my ever growing list of things

01:03:21   to get a proper monitor,

01:03:22   but it's nearly been a financial constraint

01:03:26   and the constraints of the screen resolution

01:03:30   are not high enough for the financial constraint to be okay.

01:03:35   - I just don't understand why,

01:03:37   you're gonna have to explain this to me again,

01:03:38   I don't understand why you wouldn't use your powerful

01:03:41   and beautiful screen Retina MacBook Pro

01:03:43   to edit your podcast.

01:03:46   - 'Cause then I have to transfer the files onto it.

01:03:49   And I know that sounds like such a silly thing,

01:03:51   but it's all just there,

01:03:53   and then I have ethernet plugged into there

01:03:55   so the upload speeds are quicker,

01:03:56   because I have a horrible internet, remember.

01:03:59   So basically the difference in speed between what my MacBook can achieve and what the Mac

01:04:07   Mini can achieve is like double in some instances, so like the upload speeds are a lot quicker.

01:04:13   So Ethernet hub?

01:04:15   Yeah, but then I need to have another cable into the...

01:04:19   Yeah, I know.

01:04:20   I know that there are things.

01:04:21   There are many things.

01:04:22   Because you've got this very powerful computer with a very beautiful monitor, and you're

01:04:27   editing on a TV.

01:04:29   - Yeah.

01:04:30   - By choice.

01:04:31   - By choice.

01:04:32   - 'Cause you could use the other one.

01:04:33   So I guess everything on TV is not as inconvenient

01:04:36   as transferring a file a couple of times.

01:04:38   - Yeah.

01:04:41   - I guess.

01:04:41   - I guess, I've never really--

01:04:43   - I'm not judging you, Myke.

01:04:44   I just, I'm fascinated by that.

01:04:46   I am judging you a little bit,

01:04:47   but I'm fascinated by that decision

01:04:48   that obviously the convenience of it means more to you

01:04:52   than the, you know, having the probably what,

01:04:57   slower and worse display of the thing that's sitting six inches away.

01:05:03   Well you see the thing is Jason, I'd never considered it and now I'm horrified

01:05:07   uh because now I'll never forget it so I may have to change the way that things work here because

01:05:14   now I will remember how much easier it will be to just edit on this machine.

01:05:18   Well if you got a if you got a uh you could get a dock or something and uh and I don't know and

01:05:25   and then plug in and use that.

01:05:27   I don't know.

01:05:28   You should think about it.

01:05:29   As you're thinking about your audio workflow,

01:05:31   perhaps that changes your device workflow too.

01:05:34   I like, I get, I totally get,

01:05:36   especially with Apple audio issues in the OS,

01:05:40   I think having a second system for recording

01:05:43   is pretty smart.

01:05:46   Also, it allows you to have all your Skype business

01:05:48   and all that up on the TV.

01:05:50   And then your laptop is fully dedicated

01:05:53   to everything else, whereas I've got Windows tiled

01:05:57   and Skype hiding behind things and all of that.

01:06:00   So I see the appeal of it, I do.

01:06:04   I just, it's just the, it's interesting given

01:06:07   how powerful the laptop is.

01:06:10   And if you're changing so you may not need

01:06:12   the audio in anymore, maybe that's the thing

01:06:13   that makes you reevaluate the whole thing, I don't know.

01:06:16   - Yeah, I think part of it is I've been doing this

01:06:18   for longer than I've had a more powerful laptop.

01:06:21   So it's just like the power of the laptop has not really been in question before, because

01:06:27   it's like, "Okay, so, oh yeah, you know, this would be easier."

01:06:31   But I've never really considered it, you know, because it's just kind of just been like I

01:06:34   have always done it this way.

01:06:36   Right, and it's not -- you're using your old -- you brought this new piece of hardware

01:06:40   into this old -- in this system that works just fine, so why would you change it?

01:06:43   Because there is still a feeling to me of keeping it all in one place that I quite like.

01:06:49   These are decisions that IT departments make too. So Myke, you're basically acting as your

01:06:53   own IT department here. Saying look, this works, this is a perfectly solid setup and

01:06:58   you know, is it using current operating system or is that also sort of slow to update?

01:07:04   The Mac Mini. The Mac Mini, yeah.

01:07:06   Yeah, it's currently running, what is it, we looked at this before and I keep forgetting.

01:07:12   It's running 10.8 which is Lion? That's Mountain Lion.

01:07:19   Mountain Lion, Mountain Lion, yep.

01:07:21   - So you are, you really are your own IT department here

01:07:23   where you've got Myke's own personal, fancy, fun,

01:07:27   MacBook Pro, Retina, and then you've got

01:07:29   the IT department's audio setup,

01:07:31   which is two versions of OS X behind

01:07:34   and running off of a TV set,

01:07:37   but it's like, it works, it's rock solid, don't change it.

01:07:39   There's something to be said for that.

01:07:41   I mean, we make fun of IT people a lot.

01:07:43   I was complaining the other week

01:07:45   about trying to buy an audio plugin,

01:07:47   and they said, well, no, no, no, you can't use Yosemite.

01:07:51   No, no, we'll support Yosemite later,

01:07:54   maybe months later because it's scary, it's new

01:07:57   and we gotta qualify everything.

01:07:59   But that's, you know, you've got a tool that works

01:08:02   and it's this Mac mini setup,

01:08:04   even though it could be upgraded and changed,

01:08:06   ooh, upgraded, somebody should call a podcast upgrade.

01:08:09   I just, it's interesting.

01:08:12   It'll be interesting to see how it changes,

01:08:13   especially if your workflow needs change

01:08:15   in terms of the audio stuff.

01:08:16   if you go to a USB interface.

01:08:18   - Yeah, that is-- - But this is the challenge.

01:08:20   We're all our own IT people now.

01:08:21   We're our, right, you and I.

01:08:22   We make these decisions ourselves with budget constraints

01:08:25   and prioritizing what needs are most important to be met,

01:08:29   all of that.

01:08:30   - Yeah, I mean, the IT department analogy,

01:08:33   whilst humorous, is an interesting one

01:08:35   because it is very much, like, I can sympathize with it

01:08:38   because it's simply the case of,

01:08:45   If this breaks, it's a lot to fix.

01:08:49   Like if anything on this Mac Mini breaks,

01:08:51   that is a problem.

01:08:53   And that's time and money that needs to go into

01:08:56   to making it better.

01:08:58   So that's why I try not to mess with it too much.

01:09:00   Like, you know, the operating system upgrades and stuff.

01:09:03   But yeah, I hadn't considered transferring the files

01:09:08   between the machines before.

01:09:09   'Cause I could just simply do that by a Thunderbolt cable.

01:09:14   - Sure.

01:09:15   if they're not too big, but they're audio files,

01:09:17   so they probably are.

01:09:18   You could probably use AirDrop,

01:09:19   but of course your system,

01:09:20   that Mac Mini doesn't run an OS that has AirDrop.

01:09:24   Anyway, yeah, Thunderbolt cable would work.

01:09:27   - Yeah, well, I mean, the Core recorder files that I use

01:09:31   or the AFF files that I swap them into,

01:09:34   they can be multiple gigabytes.

01:09:35   - Yes.

01:09:36   It's true, but it could be done.

01:09:39   It could be done.

01:09:40   I don't know.

01:09:41   I don't know.

01:09:42   I don't want to ruin your perfect workflow

01:09:42   because it's gotten you where you are today, but--

01:09:44   Aside from making me call into question everything that I do, do you have any other questions

01:09:50   about what you see in and around my desk?

01:09:52   Well, Dr. Pepper0, no, I have no further questions.

01:09:56   I think it looks lovely.

01:09:58   What's the microphone that you use?

01:09:59   We should ask a question to ask.

01:10:02   It's a Heil PR40.

01:10:04   Very popular.

01:10:05   Yeah, I do not recommend it as your first microphone if you are looking at such things.

01:10:12   It's finicky?

01:10:14   so much just because it's XLR or anything like that or it needs additional equipment.

01:10:18   It requires a, you know, not fancy mic technique, but it requires a just a different way because

01:10:25   like for example if I just talk just slightly away from the microphone.

01:10:28   Oh yeah.

01:10:29   So you have to, you have to,

01:10:31   Where'd he go?

01:10:32   Yeah exactly. Where's he gone? Like my, I have to talk directly into it.

01:10:36   Yeah.

01:10:37   So you kind of have to get used to that and like with the Yeti that you have, um, which

01:10:43   I used, that was my microphone before this one, you can set it so you could be on the

01:10:48   other side of the room and it will do a decent job of picking you up.

01:10:54   I think for like 90% of people I would still recommend the Yeti as a USB microphone.

01:10:59   I know that many people go with the Rode podcaster.

01:11:04   I actually do think sometimes in some instances in audio quality it's a step up, however the

01:11:09   Yeti has a lot more flexibility, including a hardwired mute switch.

01:11:14   Yeah, the Rode Podcaster is not bad, although I wonder if they have some variability in

01:11:21   batching, you know, in building them, or if they had at one time, because some people

01:11:27   I talk to really love them, and other people say that they're very quiet, it's hard to

01:11:31   really drive a game, and that was my experience, is that I didn't think it sounded that great.

01:11:36   I think if you set the settings right, the Yeti sounds great.

01:11:40   And that's my stock.

01:11:41   Like if you want to do podcasting,

01:11:44   you can get a snowball for like $50 oftentimes.

01:11:48   - But don't.

01:11:49   - It's fine.

01:11:50   But if you can afford 100 to 110, whatever it is,

01:11:54   you can usually find a Yeti somewhere for about that.

01:11:57   It's a better microphone

01:11:58   because it's got the hardware mute switch.

01:12:00   It's got the headphone jack and it sounds really good.

01:12:03   Plus it's got the different mic modes.

01:12:06   So like Philip Michaels and Lisa Schmeiser,

01:12:09   who often will podcast with me on the incomparable,

01:12:13   they're married.

01:12:14   So they live in the same house

01:12:17   and they sometimes wanna be on the podcast together.

01:12:19   So they got the Yeti, which has the two across mode

01:12:22   where it's directional on the front and back

01:12:25   of the microphone.

01:12:26   So they can actually sit across from each other

01:12:29   with the microphone and do a podcast together that way.

01:12:31   And that works pretty well too.

01:12:32   So I think that's my go-to choice for like simple

01:12:36   And yes, and then there's that pit that all the audio pros

01:12:39   and podcasters are down in, that hole that you can go down

01:12:43   and get some stuff that sounds better,

01:12:46   but the money starts increasing.

01:12:50   And I could argue that beyond a certain point,

01:12:54   most listeners are never gonna tell the difference,

01:12:56   but podcasters will.

01:12:58   - Yeah, the Yeti is great.

01:13:02   It really is great.

01:13:04   And I agree with the road.

01:13:05   I've had some issues of gain on that thing

01:13:10   and I can't really work out where they're coming from.

01:13:13   Because I've had some people have issues

01:13:15   some weeks and not others.

01:13:17   - We're in the podcasting vertical now.

01:13:18   - Yeah.

01:13:19   - Hi everybody.

01:13:22   - Hi.

01:13:23   So I think that's probably it for our workstations.

01:13:26   Now there are some other things in this document.

01:13:30   Would you like to talk about them?

01:13:32   I mean we could at least talk about the podcasting.

01:13:34   the man of the hour, you tell me. Well, because we've just spoken about podcasting. Yeah,

01:13:39   we should finish on that. Let's just talk. I mean, we've been going for more than an

01:13:42   hour now, but we should talk a little bit about this just because we were talking about

01:13:46   podcasting anyway. I've been listening like everybody else to the Serial Podcast, which

01:13:52   is this podcast from a reporter at NPR. It's the people who do This American Life, and

01:13:58   it's a weekly podcast telling the story about a murder from 1999 as the reporter investigates

01:14:03   it and talks to everybody involved and it's really a great example of storytelling.

01:14:08   It's one of the best podcasts that I've ever heard. It is simply incredible just because

01:14:14   of for nothing more, it's the idea and the execution. I think sometimes some of the choices

01:14:22   that they make with audio leave a little bit to be desired, but the idea and the way that

01:14:30   the story is told, it's like nothing I've ever heard before.

01:14:33   I mean it's, it's, I've heard things like this in radio documentaries and things,

01:14:37   but to do it in a podcast and to have it be... the reason I wanted to bring it up, I

01:14:42   mean yeah it's good, Serial Podcast, S-E-R-I-A-L, podcast.org, it's not about like

01:14:47   breakfast cereal, it's, you should listen to it, it's interesting. What it does is

01:14:52   it gets me excited about this medium, about podcasting, that, that the, you start

01:14:59   with people like this show talking to each other because that is something

01:15:04   that's fairly easy to do. You get a couple people with microphones, they talk

01:15:07   to each other for a while, you produce it and you're done. Something like serial is

01:15:11   much more edited like a movie or like a documentary. There's a huge

01:15:16   amount of effort that goes into it but I do believe fundamentally that this

01:15:21   is a medium that has a lot of different things that it can produce and right now

01:15:27   we're not necessarily tapping into all of those things that things that radio does and also things

01:15:32   that just sort of never got a chance to be on radio because you know radio is corporate and

01:15:38   and has to be broadcast and and reach a very broad audience so I just I listened to serial and I

01:15:45   started to think wow you know what could I do not that was just serial I think we'll we'll probably

01:15:51   get a lot of things that are knockoffs of serial. But like what could I do a podcast that breaks

01:15:57   format somehow and is different, a very different kind of podcast? What would that be like? What are

01:16:03   the kind of options there? And you're as somebody who's embarking on a podcasting career yourself,

01:16:09   I'm sure that you've been thinking about this too. And yes, I most definitely have.

01:16:12   These tried and true podcast formats like this one, if podcasts can have a classic format

01:16:19   being such a young medium, I think this is it. And this is good. But generally, not this

01:16:26   one necessarily, but generally this is good. But there's more, right? There's more to be

01:16:31   done and that's, I, Serial, not only is it a good podcast, but it got me thinking of

01:16:38   that of like, don't just accept that the kind of podcasts we listen to now are all there

01:16:44   can be because it's not true and always sort of keep thinking about what are other things

01:16:51   we could do to take advantage of this medium because at the end of the day this medium

01:16:54   is just audio files being delivered and those audio files could contain anything.

01:17:00   Yep. And StartUp is another great example. These two both kind of came around at the

01:17:07   same time and I read a statistic, somebody sent it to me via Twitter, I can't remember

01:17:13   it came from now but I've seen it in a couple different places that the month

01:17:17   of October was the largest amount of single podcast downloads in history and

01:17:25   it's probably because of these two shows but that is that's fantastic I mean you

01:17:34   know of course relay FM of course of course of course we've helped we're

01:17:38   helping. But I think that it's incredible to see that, especially when I've just decided

01:17:47   to make this my living. It's good to see that statistic popping up.

01:17:53   Yeah, there was the New York Magazine article. The two things about this, the media coverage

01:18:01   of this is funny because I think a lot of it is people in the media who know people

01:18:06   at NPR or other media outlets and then they do a podcast and suddenly it's legitimate

01:18:11   because somebody from major a major media outlet has doing a podcast now it's real which

01:18:17   is stupid but it does suggest that trend and I can't remember what whether it was on this

01:18:26   podcast or another podcast but I remember talking to somebody about the fact that there

01:18:30   was some study that said like what less than 3% of people listen to podcasts it's like

01:18:34   That's a sign of growth potential.

01:18:38   I do believe that there will be lots of growth in this medium, but part of that will also

01:18:44   be interesting kinds of programs that drive people forward.

01:18:53   You will have a breakout hit at some point, and maybe it's not Night Vale quite, and maybe

01:18:58   it's not Serial even quite, but at some point, something is going to be such a breakout hit

01:19:03   that it's going to bring millions of new people into the medium because they've heard people

01:19:07   talking about that. Maybe serial is it, but if not, there will be one at some point, I

01:19:11   really believe. I had a lunch when I was in Arizona with Aileen who does the Less Than

01:19:18   or Equal podcast and her husband and Aileen, I think I over pronounced it. Anyway, and

01:19:25   we talked about podcasting for a moment. That was like an unrecorded podcast about podcasting

01:19:29   and it was a lot of fun, but we were all enthusiastic for those same reasons. It's going to be,

01:19:35   we believe, and I know you and I believe, I think it's going to be big, but it's just

01:19:40   not quite over the threshold yet. So it's going to get there and having NPR people and

01:19:46   other people like that embrace it so that the media notices and says it's a thing, in

01:19:50   the end it's good for the medium, even if those of us who've been doing it for a while

01:19:54   kind of roll our eyes. It's like, oh yes, well once somebody from the New York Times

01:19:57   as a podcast, then it's a real medium. It doesn't bother me, you know. I know it

01:20:04   bothers many people and they're like, "Oh, and they didn't mention 5x5 or Twit or, you

01:20:10   know, etc, etc." But it doesn't bother me because it's not relevant to the audience.

01:20:20   The New York Magazine, it's just irrelevant to mention Twinton 5x5 in this context.

01:20:28   But the other thing is, all of this stuff, all of this press coverage, it's just good

01:20:33   for the industry and what's good for the industry is good for us.

01:20:36   It's the rising tide lifting all the boats.

01:20:39   And all of the people that care that Twinton 5x5 was mentioned in this article are already

01:20:43   listening.

01:20:44   So it's totally fine.

01:20:46   And at the end of the day, I completely agree.

01:20:50   at NPR is doing it, so people at NPR are doing the pieces on it, but what it's doing is exactly

01:20:55   what we need and it's putting this stuff in front of the mass market because I'm not saying

01:21:01   that the millions and millions of people out there are going to listen to upgrade, but

01:21:07   what it will do is of those millions and millions, the one, two, three percent of those people

01:21:12   that are interested in technology may then come across this show and then they're going

01:21:16   and download it. And that's really good. And that's kind of all I care about. I don't care

01:21:22   if we get mentioned or don't get mentioned in a New York magazine article. It doesn't

01:21:27   bother me. What does bother me is that it's in the New York magazine at all. That's what

01:21:32   I'm excited about.

01:21:33   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's -- so you can roll your eyes a little if you want about,

01:21:38   like, oh, well, you know, this has been happening for a while and they've only now discussed

01:21:41   But bottom line is, for people who love this medium and believe in it, it's good that people

01:21:47   are noticing it again.

01:21:48   And I do feel like in some ways it's validation of what's been happening the last few years

01:21:53   where it had its moment to thrive and it didn't thrive in 2005 or whenever that was.

01:22:00   When you were syncing things from iTunes and Apple embraced it and gave it, "We're putting

01:22:04   it in GarageBand and we're putting it in iTunes," and then it just kind of fizzled because it

01:22:09   was too fiddly and it was too geeky and it just wasn't time. It's since grown naturally

01:22:15   and been better and better over time. And sometimes you don't get a second chance. Sometimes

01:22:21   people would just say, "Oh, podcasting, that was a thing that was a fad in the mid-2000s

01:22:26   and now nobody cares." And so I like the fact that people are talking about, in the terms

01:22:32   of the New York Magazine article, podcast renaissance, they have to cast it that way.

01:22:36   It's like, "I know we told you about podcasting and nobody listened, but now they're listening.

01:22:39   it's a real thing because that's the redemption of that concept and we all believe in it,

01:22:45   but to talk to a broader audience and say, "No, this is really a thing now. You can get

01:22:49   it on your phone with an app and just listen to it anywhere." That is great for the medium.

01:22:56   So in the end, I think it's a good thing. And having podcasts that push the boundaries

01:23:01   is a great thing, like like Serial. And I know that I've got a lot of projects that

01:23:09   are podcasts like this and then a few that are different. It certainly emboldens me for

01:23:13   things like the incomparable radio theater of the air, which we want to do a new season

01:23:17   of probably early next year. That's a totally different thing. That's radio, old time radio,

01:23:23   drama, comedy, whatever. And it excites me to listen to something like Serial, even though

01:23:29   they're seemingly completely different because what they do is say

01:23:33   this is a medium that can hold all of these different things and it's not all

01:23:36   just you know a roundtable discussion for an hour and a half about computers

01:23:41   which is what this is.

01:23:42   Yeah one of my things that I'm gonna start thinking about now is

01:23:46   what is the what is that kind of show that I can make or a show that we

01:23:53   can make on relay FM that and I'm not interested in like a technology show for

01:23:58   the masses. Like that's not what I want to do. I want to make something that's

01:24:02   maybe a little bit more general interest that fits with what we're

01:24:05   trying to do but I don't know what it's about. I know nothing more

01:24:09   about it than that. But that's kind of something I'm just starting to think

01:24:12   about is what is a more general interest show with an interesting

01:24:16   format that lends itself to the sort of stuff that we do? What does that look

01:24:21   like? And that's as far as I have on that. But I'm pleased that there's

01:24:25   something out there that even is just getting my creative juices flowing again over something

01:24:31   completely new which excites me.

01:24:33   It's a good time for your creative juices to be flowing now that you are full time doing

01:24:37   this.

01:24:38   It's a perfect time.

01:24:39   Perfect time.

01:24:40   Perfect time.

01:24:41   I agree.

01:24:42   Right, so that's about it.

01:24:43   I think for this week's episode of Upgrade, I hope that you have enjoyed it as much as

01:24:46   we have enjoyed making it for you.

01:24:49   If you'd like to find the links to today's episode, go to relay.fm/upgrade/nine.

01:24:56   If you'd like to check out our sponsors, we'd like them very much and we are very, very

01:25:00   happy to be sponsored by our friends at The Converted App and also Igloo today.

01:25:06   They are our friends.

01:25:07   They are our friends and they use only good magic, not black magic.

01:25:10   Our friends using good magic.

01:25:12   If you'd like to follow your friend, Mr. Jason Snell, he is @jsnell on Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L,

01:25:19   he writes over at SixColors.com and I am at IMIKE and I am now a

01:25:24   professional podcaster. Finally, finally you're a professional. No longer amateurish.

01:25:31   I'm no longer pro-am, I am now professional and I create shows at Relay.fm.

01:25:38   We'll be back next week for episode number 10 of Upgrade and we will be

01:25:45   recording live at a new time. If you are a live listener we will now be recording

01:25:50   from next week at 11 a.m. Pacific time at relay.fm/live. You can

01:25:56   check the schedule at relay.fm/schedule if you'd like to see when all of our

01:26:00   shows record live. We have that there. Until next time, it's goodbye from me.

01:26:06   And it's goodbye from me too.

01:26:10   [ Music ]