7: Hot Dog Allergy


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   Hello and welcome to episode 7 of Upgrade on Relay FM. This episode of

00:00:14   Upgrade is brought to you by Backblaze, online backup made easy,

00:00:18   and igloo, an intranet you'll actually like.

00:00:21   My name is Myke Hurley, but I'm joined by the man of this hour,

00:00:25   Mr. Jason Snell. Hi Myke. This hour. Yeah, figure of this hour that's about to

00:00:32   proceed you will be the man. 3 p.m. is Jason time. Jason daylight time. Yeah,

00:00:38   we're in that time right now where we have switched to daylight

00:00:44   savings time in the United Kingdom but you change in a week. In a week.

00:00:50   so that the trick-or-treaters can have a little more light. That's really it,

00:00:56   seriously, that's why. Oh really? Yeah, yeah they moved it to after Halloween on

00:01:01   purpose so that Halloween would have a little more light in the evening for the

00:01:05   little kids who are wandering around and demanding candy. My word. It's true.

00:01:09   Does that mean we're closer? Doesn't that mean we're closer together, Myke? It does.

00:01:13   I prefer this but I only get one week of it. When it changes back to summertime

00:01:21   we change three weeks earlier than you which is horrible because that's the

00:01:27   wrong way. We're far away. That's nine hours. Yeah, yeah. With the West Coast. With the

00:01:32   best coast, yes. That's upsetting because I can deal with things when it brings

00:01:38   things forward an hour but pushing them out makes it harder. However, next time it

00:01:42   it won't be a problem for me, sir.

00:01:45   - That's good, 'cause you'll just be living

00:01:46   in your vampire hours as a new,

00:01:49   living East Coast hours in England, which is fun.

00:01:52   - I'll be walking around here going,

00:01:53   "What are you guys talking about?

00:01:54   "Daylight savings time, we've got another three weeks of that

00:01:57   "well, what's the problem, guys?"

00:01:59   - My cousin and her husband,

00:02:02   he used to work in a job in Louisville, Kentucky,

00:02:05   and they lived in Indiana.

00:02:05   So they lived in Central time,

00:02:07   but he worked in Eastern time.

00:02:08   And she was a telecommuter to a job in Florida,

00:02:11   which is Eastern time.

00:02:12   So their house was all the clocks were in Eastern time,

00:02:14   even though if you went to the store, it was central time,

00:02:17   but they just pretended that they were in Eastern time.

00:02:19   It was easier for everybody

00:02:21   if they just acted on Eastern time,

00:02:23   'cause all their work was Eastern time.

00:02:25   - Probably not easier for the people around them.

00:02:28   - Probably not.

00:02:29   My wife used to work, her boss used to live,

00:02:33   still does I think, half the year in New Zealand

00:02:35   and half the year here.

00:02:37   And the way that works, because it's the other hemisphere,

00:02:42   the times come closer each way by an hour,

00:02:46   and then they go away from each other by an hour.

00:02:48   So actually when my wife was working with her

00:02:50   and it was winter here and summer there,

00:02:53   I think the difference in time,

00:02:54   I think it was like four hours.

00:02:55   It was almost no difference in time.

00:02:57   It was very much like a New York,

00:02:58   San Francisco kind of thing.

00:03:00   So it was actually really easy to work

00:03:01   with people from New Zealand,

00:03:02   but then the other half of the year,

00:03:04   they're much further apart.

00:03:05   Time zones, how do they work?

00:03:09   Apparently, however anybody likes is what we've learned today.

00:03:13   Just do whatever you want.

00:03:14   So this is our top of episode digression for this week is a vertical, the vertical this

00:03:19   week, as we said, our vertical podcast of the week.

00:03:21   This is about time zones.

00:03:22   Yeah, and we're not actually, the Kindle will not be a vertical this week.

00:03:26   Who knows if it'll be a topic?

00:03:29   Yo.

00:03:30   Yeah.

00:03:31   It's in there.

00:03:32   I know it's in there.

00:03:33   There is a chance that it, there's a chance it might be.

00:03:35   There's a chance it might not be.

00:03:37   Just so people know so we can kind of keep abreast of Kindle Talk, which is part of the

00:03:43   Vertical Podcast, which is part of Upgrade.

00:03:46   Do you have your Kindle Voyage?

00:03:48   I do.

00:03:49   Okay, great.

00:03:50   So the Kindle Voyage is in the house.

00:03:55   So now if we don't talk about it, we'll really not be talking about it.

00:04:01   I think it's time for your favorite part of the show.

00:04:05   Sponsors who are our good friends.

00:04:07   - Oh, follow up, follow up is what you mean.

00:04:10   - I do.

00:04:12   - Okay, listener Shep wrote in to say,

00:04:15   "Myke, please, I beg you, don't buy a Mac Mini."

00:04:19   - Wow, wow Shep, you really mean this.

00:04:22   Please tell me more Jason.

00:04:24   Shep, please tell me more via Jason.

00:04:27   - I think you might've gotten this email,

00:04:28   but I forwarded this to you.

00:04:30   But anyway, he says, "The new machines are not only limited

00:04:32   "to dual core, which we mentioned last time,

00:04:34   "but the RAM is soldered onto the machines.

00:04:36   the upgrade price from 4 gigs in the Lowison machine to 16 is a ridiculous

00:04:40   amount because they know you can't do it later

00:04:43   and he said I'd strongly urge you to find

00:04:45   new old stock, I assume he means something that's still floating around

00:04:49   or refurbed or something, of the previous superior version

00:04:53   of the mini that had the quad core i7 processor then do your own 30 second RAM

00:04:57   upgrade

00:04:58   and so he's recommending you seek out an old

00:05:02   previous generation Mac Mini that had the quad core processor and

00:05:06   upgrade the RAM and use that instead of buying one of the limited

00:05:10   new model Mac Minis. That's not a bad idea actually.

00:05:15   If you're doing multi-core, I mean I don't think it's going to be much slower

00:05:20   to do single core and it would be much faster to do multi-core.

00:05:24   If you can find it. Yeah, that's the problem if I can find one.

00:05:28   Um, yeah, definitely not a bad idea.

00:05:30   Maybe I'll save myself some money.

00:05:32   Who knows?

00:05:32   Or maybe there'll be, like, a black market, um,

00:05:36   of these machines.

00:05:38   - Listenership says that PowerMax.com, for example,

00:05:41   has a quad core at $699 US right now.

00:05:45   - Jason, have you ever heard of PowerMax.com?

00:05:47   - No.

00:05:49   - Okay, good.

00:05:50   Well, I'm not gonna buy from them then.

00:05:51   (laughing)

00:05:52   - Just as an example of a...

00:05:56   It's Power Max, it's like Max Power.

00:05:58   It's like the Homer Simpson's alter ego, Max Power.

00:06:01   - I don't remember that. - It's just like that.

00:06:05   Anyway, Myke don't buy a Mac Mini.

00:06:07   That's the only, you only move twice.

00:06:09   You should see that.

00:06:09   That's a great, is that, is that the,

00:06:11   - Oh! - Is he Max Power in that?

00:06:12   No, it's a different episode where he's Max Power.

00:06:14   He changes his name because there's the police cops star

00:06:17   who's a character called Homer Simpson.

00:06:19   And in the pilot episode, he's really cool.

00:06:20   And then in the series episode, he's a loser.

00:06:23   And so he changes his name to Max Power.

00:06:25   that I remember that you only is it moved twice

00:06:30   you only move twice is the one where he gets the job as the James Bond villain

00:06:33   played by Albert Brooks is a nuclear power

00:06:36   guy that is my favorite Simpsons episode of all time

00:06:40   I'm it's a good one it ends with a great joke that you wouldn't understand which

00:06:44   is a

00:06:45   an NFL joke because Dallas Cowboys

00:06:48   he owns the Dallas Cowboys but instead he gets the Denver Broncos

00:06:51   Denver Broncos! Mars is well I don't know it seems funny Mars you don't understand

00:06:56   football because back then the Denver Broncos were terrible then they won the

00:06:59   Super Bowl and ruined the joke. And then everyone on the internet shared that

00:07:02   clip for 24 hours. That's what I found. Yeah that is I think you only move

00:07:08   twice it kind of has everything that is good about the Simpsons. Yeah I kind of

00:07:15   stopped watching the Simpsons in recent years there's a lot of things is

00:07:18   everything bad about the Simpsons. So there's our Simpsons vertical. Done.

00:07:23   They're not tangents anymore, they're vertical. You can sponsor these

00:07:27   verticals in the future. That'll be good. We just get totally

00:07:30   vertically aligned sponsorship deals. This vertical was brought to you by Fox.

00:07:35   Yeah, exactly. By the new Simpsons app from FXX. Listener Joseph wrote in, we had

00:07:43   some Apple Pay comments, and listener Joseph said, "Obviously Apple Pay works

00:07:48   with any NFC compatible system.

00:07:50   He says, "I think Apple's cache will push retailers

00:07:54   to enable NFC and advertise

00:07:57   that they're Apple Pay participants,

00:07:58   but it doesn't look like they have to specifically

00:08:00   partner with Apple."

00:08:01   This is true, and of course,

00:08:01   as we found out some drugstores in the US,

00:08:05   which we call that a chemist, Myke,

00:08:08   in your part of the world. - A chemist, yes.

00:08:10   Or a pharmacy.

00:08:11   - Or a pharmacy, okay, well, indeed.

00:08:13   So many drugstores, pharmacies, chemists

00:08:15   in the United States have actually,

00:08:17   They had it on and when they discovered that it worked with Apple Pay, they quickly turned

00:08:21   it off because they are plotting their own system.

00:08:25   But yes, theoretically if you're an NFC terminal, it should be able to work with Apple Pay.

00:08:31   And I think I read somewhere that somebody in Australia was able to pay with something

00:08:35   using Apple Pay because they had a US credit card and there was an NFC terminal and they

00:08:39   had to pay the conversion rate and all of that, but it actually did work.

00:08:43   So that's good.

00:08:44   if you have a US credit card you can basically pay anywhere in the world. It's

00:08:48   very interesting that that works but it's all... The thing is like I have a... I have

00:08:55   an understanding of this stuff kind of a little bit from a technical level from

00:08:59   my soon-to-be previous employment and these things like the machines and the

00:09:06   NFC chips they just see each other as very basic technology. Apple's not doing

00:09:11   anything magic that requires--

00:09:15   - It's sending numbers, right?

00:09:16   I mean, it's like numbers.

00:09:18   - All it's doing is like, if you have one of these chips

00:09:20   in your credit card or your debit card,

00:09:21   it's the same thing that's inside of what Apple's doing.

00:09:26   And a lot of it, like the terminal doesn't know

00:09:29   what is necessary talking to it,

00:09:31   because then it's kind of by design, but.

00:09:33   - The only difference is that Apple's system

00:09:35   is generating that one time credit card number.

00:09:38   - Yes.

00:09:39   But the terminal doesn't need to know that, right?

00:09:42   All the terminal knows is that it's got a number,

00:09:44   it's valid, and it clears the sale.

00:09:46   - But obviously the mean people

00:09:50   at these American pharmacies have found ways

00:09:52   to stop it from happening.

00:09:53   - Well, there's a whole harebrained scheme

00:09:55   to build their own mobile app that has a barcode

00:09:59   that you take a picture and then you show a barcode

00:10:01   on your phone and it links with your bank account

00:10:06   so they have access to just take money

00:10:07   out of your bank account.

00:10:08   it sounds so evil and so bad and they can track your purchases and aggregate all that

00:10:15   data and presumably resell it and market it.

00:10:20   Walmart is apparently one of the prime movers in it and it sounds really bad and it's all

00:10:24   basically to just get out from paying Mastercard or Visa for transaction fees.

00:10:29   Thing is about this...

00:10:30   Not to help customers at all, right?

00:10:32   Consumers are not supposed to be aided by this in any way, it's just for them to save

00:10:35   money.

00:10:36   I read about this yesterday and it just made me laugh

00:10:41   because like, this is like,

00:10:45   Apple's not giving up on Apple Pay.

00:10:47   I think that Apple consider Apple Pay,

00:10:50   I mean, I'm not the only one who obviously thinks this

00:10:52   as a hugely important thing

00:10:53   to the future of their business.

00:10:55   Like Apple Pay is a big deal.

00:10:56   - Tim Cook said as much.

00:10:58   - Yeah, this is huge.

00:10:59   - Yeah, Tim Cook in his phone call with analysts,

00:11:02   said this is a huge services move for us doing this and you know their whole idea is that

00:11:08   they're basically making money at this, one from the halo of selling more devices that

00:11:14   use this thing that's awesome but also by they're taking a piece of what was the credit

00:11:20   card fee basically as part of the deal and it's not you know it's just sort of like inserting

00:11:26   themselves in the middle there. Anyway it's yeah it'll be interesting to see I think that

00:11:31   a customer hostile attempt to aggregate user data

00:11:36   in exchange for coupons is probably gonna fail.

00:11:41   Or at least will, I doubt it,

00:11:43   they're going to be able to succeed

00:11:45   at making it an either or.

00:11:46   It's more likely that they'll finally say,

00:11:48   'cause also keep in mind, they can't turn off Apple Pay,

00:11:51   like you said, they have to turn off NFC.

00:11:53   So everybody's gonna get these chips in the US,

00:11:55   these chips in their cards,

00:11:56   and they're gonna wanna do the tap to, you know,

00:12:00   and they're gonna say, "Well, no, you can download our app

00:12:02   "and scan this barcode and all."

00:12:04   And people are not gonna wanna do that.

00:12:06   That's crazy.

00:12:07   Nobody wants to do that.

00:12:08   - I like to say retail, say hello to the music industry

00:12:14   because if the music industry tried to do this with iTunes,

00:12:18   you will not win in this scenario

00:12:20   and your customers will want you to get your,

00:12:23   to buy your products via this.

00:12:25   And there will be people that decide to go to a competitor.

00:12:29   ditch as well, you know?

00:12:31   Wherever you think that's a, you know,

00:12:32   like people who maybe go to Walmart

00:12:34   will go to another supermarket.

00:12:36   Jason, help me.

00:12:37   - If one of those exists, Safeway or Publix or Buy Right,

00:12:42   now I'm making up things.

00:12:45   They'll go to Wall, people who wanna go, let's try this,

00:12:47   who wanna go to Rite Aid will now go to Walgreens

00:12:50   because Walgreens accepts Apple Pay and Rite Aid does not.

00:12:53   - There you go.

00:12:54   - It's sad for me because the Whole Foods

00:12:56   where I can buy things with Apple Pay

00:12:58   surrounded by a CVS and a Rite Aid both of which have now had it turned off

00:13:03   because they're part of this cabal. And you used Apple Pay at the ballpark? I did

00:13:08   I bought a hot dog with Apple Pay. Alert! Stop presses! New story just

00:13:14   breaking. Man buys hot dog. Seen at the ballpark today. Yeah. Is that hot dog he's

00:13:22   carrying purchased with Apple Pay could be.

00:13:26   So I do have a question about purchasing with Apple Pay now you've used me using it for

00:13:30   like all of a week and a bit.

00:13:33   Are you using it genuinely or ironically at the moment still or is it changed or do you

00:13:38   think it will change?

00:13:39   I am going to use it every damn chance I get and not ironically.

00:13:44   I think it's, first off it's fun and second I like the idea that I am just taking my phone

00:13:50   out of my pocket and holding my thumb on the little button and it's all done. I think that's

00:13:54   really cool. Plus, as a writer, I'm also interested in getting into those weird circumstances where

00:14:00   things are not quite right and just experiencing it. Like with the hot dog, the guy wasn't ready

00:14:09   and I beeped his little terminal with Apple Pay and he was like, "No, no, no, wait, wait, wait."

00:14:13   And he pressed a couple of keys and he said, "Now do it." And I did it again and it went through.

00:14:19   So I thought that was interesting that I couldn't just jump ahead.

00:14:22   Like, you know, at some supermarkets, it's not so true now because I think they

00:14:27   realized that people use their terminals differently than they expected.

00:14:30   But it used to be you would sometimes run your credit card and put in your pin or

00:14:35   whatever you would need to do.

00:14:36   And then they would get to the end of the transaction and they'd say, "Okay, now put

00:14:41   in your credit card."

00:14:42   And that was because the terminal wasn't ready yet.

00:14:45   And now I never experienced that.

00:14:47   Now they all know, "Look, if you're gonna run your credit card now, I'll just hold on to it,

00:14:51   wait until the checker says that they're done, then I'll verify your credit card and we'll move ahead."

00:14:57   I feel like that's where Apple Pay is right now. Like, some of these terminals aren't,

00:15:00   aren't like ready to take your payment information yet. Like, I don't know,

00:15:04   I don't know what to do with that, and this is what happened when I bought the hot dog

00:15:07   at the World Series. That, that, the way that you explained about the teller ringing,

00:15:12   I had absolutely no idea what that means. No? Because basically it's the same like with chip

00:15:17   and pin transactions, what happens is, and this is all part of the terminal and the security

00:15:21   and all that sort of stuff, the transaction is finished and then the transaction is sent

00:15:26   to the terminal, which dials to get the authorization to begin the transaction, and then that's

00:15:32   who it is here, and then you put your card in and put it through.

00:15:36   In my supermarket line, so you put your groceries on the conveyor belt or whatever and you go

00:15:41   and they're scanning them all and putting them in bags, and there's usually a terminal,

00:15:46   This is actually one of the rare cases where you actually have a terminal now in the US

00:15:51   because so many of these cases you give them the card and they take it and do things with

00:15:54   it.

00:15:55   But here there's a terminal so you can run your own credit card, put in your pin if it's

00:15:58   a debit card or whatever, put in your affinity card if you've got a club membership or something

00:16:05   that gives you a discount on some things.

00:16:08   And so it used to be that it would be there waiting for your credit card and you could

00:16:13   run your credit card, you could run it through and say, "Okay, I'm ready," before they were

00:16:17   done ringing up your order. And it got very confused, and you usually have to do it again.

00:16:24   However, at least at Safeway, where I go supermarket shopping the most often, they've outsmarted

00:16:31   me. Now, even if I start running my credit card when they've scanned the first two items

00:16:37   and they've got 50 items left to scan, I can run my credit card through. And what the terminal

00:16:42   does is it just waits until the checkout says I'm done here's the total and then

00:16:49   it runs the card and then all I have to do is press the button or put in my pin

00:16:52   or whatever I need to do but I don't need to run my card again it's just sort

00:16:55   of holding on to that information because I think they realize that people

00:16:58   are impatient and want to just run their card right away and not have somebody

00:17:02   say wait wait wait don't do it yet so they just it just it's working around

00:17:06   the human desire to jump the gun in terms of swiping the credit card and now

00:17:11   it just caches that temporarily until the the clerk presses the total button

00:17:17   and then it runs the card. So it's interesting. So that's what I mean.

00:17:21   Here with chip and pin you just have to wait. If you try and use your

00:17:26   card in any way it will just fail and if you like put your card in before it

00:17:30   tells you to put the card in whilst the transaction is in process it will also

00:17:33   fail. Yeah it's literally the person rings you up, you wait and it

00:17:40   it says please insert your card, you then insert your card and the transaction begins.

00:17:44   So you can understand then, the equivalent of that is what happened to me with the hot

00:17:47   dog for Apple Pay, which is, it looked like he was at the end of the transaction so I

00:17:52   got out my phone and went beep, and then he was like no no wait wait wait, and then he

00:17:56   pressed a couple buttons and then I did it again and then it cleared.

00:17:59   So I think you could change the software around so it will accept that, because it's not like

00:18:04   you're, I don't know if you're actually approving a specific amount when you do Apple Pay, I

00:18:09   you're just sort of approving that it happened? I don't know. I don't know. It's interesting.

00:18:13   This is fascinating just from a purely social and sort of like what your script is when you purchase

00:18:19   something aspect separate from the technology that it like upsets our recipe for how we buy things.

00:18:24   So to answer that question that you asked, this is one of the reasons why I'm going to

00:18:30   keep using Apple Pay is not only do I think it's kind of cool and I want to do it, but also I want

00:18:34   I want to have this experience of,

00:18:35   so I can write about it probably,

00:18:37   of what happens in these situations

00:18:40   and how does it change what you do

00:18:42   and could there be ways to make it better or worse?

00:18:45   And so I can at least tell that to myself

00:18:48   that I'm using Apple Pay for research and not anything else.

00:18:52   Related to this, by the way, we have,

00:18:56   we also in the chat room,

00:18:59   there's some real-time follow-up

00:19:02   or a real-time question Brian Hamilton

00:19:04   was asking about loyalty cards and credit cards.

00:19:06   My understanding is that Apple Pay can transmit

00:19:08   your loyalty card at the same time

00:19:11   that it transmits your credit card.

00:19:13   It can actually say, "Oh, I'm at Safeway.

00:19:15   "Here's my Club Card ID, and now here's my Credit Card ID."

00:19:18   Or that you might be able to pick one or the other.

00:19:20   It's capable of it.

00:19:22   I'm not sure anything has been implemented yet.

00:19:24   So I'm not sure they actually are doing that yet,

00:19:27   but I had an Apple person at the Apple event

00:19:29   where they unveiled this say that you could piggyback

00:19:33   affinity card stuff on top of credit card stuff, which is cool, because then instead of running two cards,

00:19:39   you're just going "beep" and it says "oh, I know you're Jason and you get these coupons and now I'll charge your credit card and we're done."

00:19:46   Which is exciting.

00:19:47   The ability to have the loyalty cards attached and used automatically, I find interesting, more appealing than just using my credit card or debit card.

00:20:00   Right, it saves you another step.

00:20:02   Yeah, and also... Just doing it incrementally better.

00:20:04   I would be more likely to sign up for loyalty cards if I then didn't have to carry them around

00:20:08   and I used them every time automatically.

00:20:11   I never carry them around. It turns out usually you can give them your phone number

00:20:14   and then you just put in your phone number and that works.

00:20:17   But I would much rather just have it be in there and know that my loyalty cards are in there.

00:20:22   Related to this, by the way, another piece of follow-up, since we're still doing follow-up,

00:20:25   believe it or not, Lister Tim wrote in to say,

00:20:30   He's not bugged about extra stuff like Office Depot asking if I want my receipt emailed

00:20:34   or even entering in a prompt confirming the amount that he wants to spend, or Walgreens

00:20:39   asking for his phone number for the store rewards program.

00:20:42   What he wants is not to have to enter his PIN, and I've heard this from people.

00:20:45   He said, "I've already used my super cool guy Uber phone to make the payment.

00:20:49   Don't make me slog through the plebeian mud of a PIN number."

00:20:52   This is one of the great questions that a lot of people have had about Apple Pay, which

00:20:56   is verification.

00:20:58   The fact is, my understanding is that Apple Pay, because it's the one-time charge, because

00:21:03   you've got your thumbprint, it's... no other validation is required by the service, that

00:21:10   it's the equivalent of putting in a pin.

00:21:12   The problem is that a lot of these systems have policies put into them, I think by the

00:21:18   stores, saying above a certain amount you need to validate.

00:21:20   And so I've heard people say they paid with Apple Pay but they had to put in a pin, or

00:21:24   they paid with Apple Pay but they had to sign something.

00:21:27   And I think my understanding is that in the long run this probably won't need to happen

00:21:33   because I believe what Apple Pay is supposed to be transmitting is basically saying this

00:21:38   is verified, you're good, and don't ask for anything.

00:21:42   But the software in a lot of these places is set to ask above $25 or $50 or $100.

00:21:50   And so it'll be interesting to watch this and see whether this can get resolved because

00:21:55   it becomes much less exciting to do Apple Pay

00:21:58   if, you know, you were just saying,

00:22:00   if it eliminates a step, it makes it more interesting.

00:22:02   Some of these cases, it's adding steps back in

00:22:04   from the old way, at which point, why even bother, right?

00:22:08   If you have to put in your phone number

00:22:10   and put in your PIN number and sign something

00:22:12   and all these things, then why did I even use Apple Pay?

00:22:16   So it'll be interesting to see.

00:22:17   I have never had to do anything but go, boop,

00:22:20   but I've also never bought anything more expensive

00:22:22   than peanut butter or a hot dog.

00:22:23   - Does Apple Pay-- - Don't have

00:22:24   peanut butter hot dog by the way, that's a bad, bad meal, don't do that.

00:22:29   Especially if you're allergic like me. The hot dogs are a peanut butter.

00:22:32   Yes, you especially.

00:22:33   I'm allergic to peanuts.

00:22:36   Poor Myke, the hot dog allergy is the worst.

00:22:39   So bad. Do you know if Apple Pay has a limit on transactions? I don't recall seeing this

00:22:47   anywhere.

00:22:48   I think it's only whatever your credit card limit is, but I think that individual stores

00:22:51   can have a policy on it. So if you went into the Apple Store even and bought $2,000 worth

00:22:55   of equipment with it, they might have you pay for that. I had somebody tell me that

00:22:59   they had to sign something at an Apple Store and we thought he was crazy on Twitter. Glenn

00:23:03   Fleischman and I sort of engaged him and what. And you know, his fault was he said, "Apple

00:23:07   Pay is stupid because you always have to sign." And we said, "You don't have to sign." He

00:23:10   said, "Well, I had to sign once." I was like, "Okay, that's not always. That's once."

00:23:14   I haven't used it once. I know.

00:23:17   know, forget it Myke, it's Twitter. This stuff happens on Twitter. But it is an interesting

00:23:22   wrinkle that, you know, individual stores may ask you for more information. But like

00:23:29   I said, technically I believe the Apple Pay thing is at that other tier of fraud prevention

00:23:36   where they basically said, look, this has been verified and you don't need a signature

00:23:41   or a PIN or something like that. Because the reason the stores do that is to protect themselves

00:23:45   against fraud. If they ask and there's still fraud, then it's off of their plate a little

00:23:52   bit more. They've gathered more information. But my understanding is that Apple Pay actually

00:23:56   means you don't need to do that, but they still may. And for a while they might, just

00:24:00   because of policy or because of technical limitations, it's possible that some readers

00:24:04   only just know that it's a card number. And if you tapped your NFC credit card to make

00:24:09   a purchase and it was for $5,000, they may just have a policy that, no, we really need

00:24:14   to see your you know your ID and your you need to sign or put in your pin or

00:24:18   whatever it is so it'll be interesting to see how that pans out over time.

00:24:23   Most definitely. Mr. Snell I would like to take a moment to thank our friends. Our

00:24:29   friends. Our new friends at Backblaze. I want to talk about Backblaze. I'm a big

00:24:36   fan of Backblaze. I have come to fall in love with them recently. They've

00:24:41   been helping me out, not just by... Does your girlfriend know? Yeah, I mean she's

00:24:46   okay with it. So are these aren't even our friends, these are like our loved ones at

00:24:50   Blackblaze, it's that good. It is, it is. Do you know why, Jason? I'm looking at it,

00:24:54   I'm looking at it right now in my menu bar. I do know why, but why don't you tell the

00:24:57   listeners why? I'm gonna tell you why, Jason, because it's time to upgrade your backup strategy.

00:25:02   Oh, good. If you're not backing up your data at all, you have to change this. And if you're

00:25:11   If you're just backing up locally, even if you have like a an omni-focus task to remind

00:25:16   you to do it twice daily and swap out the drives, you still need to listen to what I'm

00:25:19   about to tell you.

00:25:20   What if there was a fire?

00:25:22   What if there was a flood?

00:25:23   Exactly.

00:25:24   You'd lose your backup anyway.

00:25:25   It'll be gone.

00:25:26   If it's not backed up, off-site and in the cloud, you need to address this.

00:25:30   And this is where Backblaze can help you.

00:25:32   Backblaze is an online backup solution for all the data you have on your Mac and your

00:25:37   PC.

00:25:38   All documents, photos, videos, movies, everything you have on your Mac or PC will get backed up

00:25:44   and made available online via the Backblaze web and mobile apps for Android and iPhone.

00:25:50   Even if you have a slow connection like I do, this is something you should do.

00:25:55   So yes, the first backup can take a while, multiple days, weeks maybe in some instances,

00:26:00   but it's just a minor inconvenience on your machine that you will have for that period of

00:26:04   time. You can set schedules for when you want the backups to occur, you can set

00:26:08   upload limits, you can set like if you want to throttle it you can. Backblaze

00:26:13   offers unthrottled backup but you can put your own throttles on if you want to

00:26:16   keep the load and your connection down.

00:26:20   And you can very easily just pause the backup if you need it from the menu bar

00:26:23   or from system preferences if you live in there. And once you've got

00:26:27   that first backup out of the way, everything else will back up super fast,

00:26:31   simple in the background you can set it so when you don't even ever see it and

00:26:34   then what you'll have is the peace of mind that all of your files are safe and

00:26:39   secure they all become accessible online if you need them you can grab individual

00:26:43   files or everything at once backblaze can even put all of your stuff on a

00:26:46   hard drive and ship it to you if you have a catastrophic failure and need it

00:26:50   all back in one go so I have been using backblaze and I'm super happy I feel

00:26:56   just better because before backblaze I didn't have a good backup strategy

00:27:00   now I feel a lot better about it.

00:27:02   And if I knock another drink into my laptop,

00:27:05   then I won't be concerned.

00:27:07   So go now and start your risk-free,

00:27:09   no credit cards required, full featured trial

00:27:12   at backblaze.com/upgradepodcast.

00:27:16   I did think when I was working with Backblaze

00:27:19   and these URLs that our shows,

00:27:20   it may be difficult for some of our sponsors

00:27:23   to just have /upgrade,

00:27:25   'cause they're probably already using it.

00:27:27   But hey, that's why we have /upgradepodcast.

00:27:30   So there are no add-ons, gimmicks, or additional charges

00:27:33   after your free trial, which is $5 per month,

00:27:35   per computer for unlimited fast online backup.

00:27:38   So go to backblaze.com/upgrade podcast,

00:27:41   and you'll be helping support this show.

00:27:43   Thank you so much to Backblaze

00:27:44   for their support of Relay FM and Upgrade.

00:27:47   - Ooh.

00:27:49   We have a little more feedback,

00:27:52   but I'll try to move quickly through this

00:27:53   because we have been doing all feedback.

00:27:56   We are becoming more like ATP all the time.

00:27:58   Just it's all feedback.

00:28:00   That's good. It's a good problem to be more like ATP.

00:28:02   We would have to find a Casey,

00:28:06   or would we have to find a Marco,

00:28:08   or would we have to find a John?

00:28:09   Who are we?

00:28:10   I leave it to the listener to decide which one of us

00:28:12   is Marco, John, and Casey, and who our third would be.

00:28:17   Fantasy casting upgrade as a three-person podcast.

00:28:23   Go to it.

00:28:23   I look forward to your feedback

00:28:24   in our fantasy casting vertical next week.

00:28:28   Lister JP wrote in.

00:28:30   JP is blind.

00:28:32   He says, "Shopping is always hard.

00:28:33   Card readers at retail establishments

00:28:35   are never blind friendly.

00:28:37   Shopping has never been secure for somebody who's blind.

00:28:41   They often require assistance from a clerk.

00:28:43   Every time his card or pin leaves him, he's at risk.

00:28:46   Even if the clerk is completely honest."

00:28:49   He says, "Apple Pay makes this a distant memory.

00:28:51   It's 100% accessible.

00:28:52   I can use my cards without assistance,

00:28:53   which makes it more secure to me.

00:28:55   It allows me independence."

00:28:57   And then obviously companies like Best Buy and Walmart

00:29:00   who are trying to turn off Apple Pay,

00:29:01   he says they're actually turning their heads away

00:29:03   from disabled customers.

00:29:06   I thought it was really interesting,

00:29:07   Stephen Aquino who writes about accessibility or not,

00:29:09   wrote a really quick post on his site about this too.

00:29:13   Apple Pay is an accessible feature

00:29:15   that actually makes life better for people

00:29:17   who are blind in this case.

00:29:19   And I thought that was really an interesting angle.

00:29:23   So thank you JP for sharing that.

00:29:24   I thought that was really great.

00:29:27   Listener Colon wrote in just to say,

00:29:28   we talked about, this is not about Apple Pay,

00:29:31   we talked about a beta app review a week or two ago.

00:29:34   And we were complaining about how,

00:29:36   since they need to app review betas for TestFlight,

00:29:39   which has launched now as part of Apple,

00:29:41   but TestFlight app is out there and all of that,

00:29:43   if you're beta testing apps,

00:29:45   we thought that was ridiculous

00:29:46   that you had to app review betas

00:29:49   and who was gonna do that?

00:29:50   Listener Colon wrote in just to say,

00:29:52   he got beta app review for his app

00:29:54   and it took about two hours,

00:29:56   much faster than a normal review.

00:29:57   So it may be beta app review with something programmatic

00:30:01   where they're running a scanner on it

00:30:02   just to make sure that nothing particularly notably,

00:30:06   you know, automatively bad can be found.

00:30:11   And if so, that's great.

00:30:13   That's great news.

00:30:14   I look forward to seeing how people use TestFlight

00:30:16   because it has this huge benefit

00:30:18   of being able to attach to Apple IDs instead of device IDs

00:30:21   so that when people upgrade their devices,

00:30:23   you run out of slots for beta testers.

00:30:25   So now it'll be the person with their Apple ID as your beta tester.

00:30:29   And if they get a new device, if they drop their phone and have to get a new one, you

00:30:31   don't have to do anything.

00:30:32   They just log in with their Apple ID and they're back on your beta list, which is really cool.

00:30:37   So that was great news from Listener Colon.

00:30:39   I have a quick question about that.

00:30:41   I want to get your opinion.

00:30:44   If it is the case that it is just going through a machine and then the machine spits out the

00:30:49   approved, should Apple communicate this so people can set their expectations that it's

00:30:53   it's not gonna be a two week delay?

00:30:56   Or should they not because then you might as well

00:30:58   just not have it done like that in the first place

00:31:00   'cause people will still abuse it maybe.

00:31:02   - I don't know.

00:31:05   I mean, I like the idea that it's less

00:31:07   because we said it was untenable if it's more.

00:31:13   And right, the standards can be lower.

00:31:16   The bar can be lower for the beta app review.

00:31:18   So I like this news because it suggests to me

00:31:21   that beta app review is perfunctory,

00:31:23   that it is automated, it's basic,

00:31:25   it's like, let's do a sanity check

00:31:27   before we let you send this thing out.

00:31:29   Because if it's so crazy that it's breaking things

00:31:32   that this thing finds,

00:31:33   you should not distribute it to your beta testers

00:31:37   'cause you will kill them, which is good.

00:31:38   That is a good thing,

00:31:40   instead of it being like a full on app review kind of thing,

00:31:43   which would be really annoying.

00:31:44   So I think it's good.

00:31:47   Also the percentage of people

00:31:48   who actually do beta testing of apps is so low

00:31:50   that most people are never gonna care.

00:31:52   but as somebody who beta tests apps,

00:31:54   I think this is really great

00:31:55   that the turnaround was so fast

00:31:58   because the prospect of not having to register

00:32:00   all my devices is really exciting

00:32:02   'cause that really was terrible.

00:32:03   Like I dropped my iPad and I had to write

00:32:06   to everybody whose apps I was beta testing

00:32:07   and say, I'm so sorry.

00:32:09   If you want me to not beta test your app, that's fine.

00:32:12   I understand, but here's my new UDID

00:32:14   for this new iPad that's my replacement.

00:32:17   And then they have to enter it in

00:32:18   and they lose a slot and it's terrible.

00:32:20   So this is better.

00:32:22   This is better.

00:32:23   - There's no reason in my mind where it shouldn't be

00:32:26   that if you can just delete someone,

00:32:28   like I just can't get my head around it.

00:32:31   - It's paranoia.

00:32:32   They are concerned about beta testing being used

00:32:35   as an external app store.

00:32:37   That's what it is.

00:32:38   It's like you add somebody, you give them--

00:32:40   - Sorry, it's like to delete a UDID that I don't know,

00:32:43   I probably can't, but if you could, you know,

00:32:45   somehow then just cut that device off.

00:32:48   I don't know how that would happen, but you know.

00:32:50   - I don't know.

00:32:51   Well, if this works, then we won't have to worry about it,

00:32:54   'cause it won't be per device, it'll be per person,

00:32:56   which always has made more sense.

00:32:58   - If you have, you listener, ahoy listener,

00:33:01   if you've had-- - Ahoy listener.

00:33:02   - Ahoy listener, if you've, like Colin,

00:33:05   if you've had anything, if you put an app through it

00:33:08   and it's gone through quicker than usual

00:33:10   through the test flight process,

00:33:12   please contact us and let us know.

00:33:14   - All right.

00:33:16   Listener Brian Hamilton in the chat room, by the way.

00:33:20   listen to Brian, says that I'm John and you're Casey.

00:33:24   That's not bad.

00:33:25   - No, probably how I would have gone actually.

00:33:28   - But do we need a Marco then?

00:33:30   - Probably.

00:33:31   Can you find another Marco?

00:33:33   - I don't know.

00:33:35   I have talked about having guests on this show

00:33:37   from time to time, so that would be interesting

00:33:39   to see how that changes the dynamic.

00:33:41   But we gotta get up to speed ourselves before we get there.

00:33:44   - Maybe we just bring Marco on.

00:33:47   - Yeah, sure.

00:33:47   Let's try him out as a Marco,

00:33:49   see what kind of a Marco Marco is.

00:33:51   I got a couple of Twitter things

00:33:53   that I wanted to throw in here.

00:33:55   Mentions to @_upgradefm, our Twitter account.

00:33:59   This is a Hoy telephone related, these both of these.

00:34:04   Leon, listener Leon says, the best way, Leon, I don't know,

00:34:11   L-E-O-N, the best way I've encountered to activate Siri

00:34:16   to say hello telephone is to use the song we built this city by Starship. You know that

00:34:23   one Myke? Do you know that song? Well of course we built it on rock and roll. That's right.

00:34:28   That song's not going to be in my head for the next week and a half. So thank you. Well

00:34:31   it's gonna activate the Siri in your mind. Just think ahoy telephone as you listen. And

00:34:42   And then listener Connor wrote in with a,

00:34:45   he sent us a little video that basically is him

00:34:47   saying a Hoy telephone at the Apple store

00:34:51   and activating phones there with it.

00:34:53   I mean, not saying a Hoy telephone, obviously,

00:34:55   we're not gonna say what he actually said,

00:34:58   but it activated the phones there.

00:34:59   What's funny about the video is that he sort of

00:35:02   almost whispered it and the video only shows

00:35:05   two phones activating.

00:35:06   And when I asked him about that, he basically said,

00:35:08   "Well, I didn't wanna shout it 'cause I thought

00:35:10   that they would think I was a crazy person."

00:35:12   which maybe so--

00:35:14   - But what Connor-- - But thank you to Connor.

00:35:16   - He has answered our question from last week

00:35:18   that it is on and-- - It is on.

00:35:20   - Yeah, so have at it.

00:35:24   - Yeah, so I've got one more item of feedback

00:35:28   which isn't quite feedback, but I just wanted to mention it.

00:35:30   I don't wanna spend too much time dwelling on it.

00:35:31   Anybody who's listened to ATP has heard

00:35:33   some really great discussion, mostly from John about this,

00:35:36   but I just wanted to mention because Brianna Wu

00:35:38   is somebody who's been on my podcast a lot

00:35:40   and she, if you don't know, got some death threats

00:35:43   and had to move out of her house

00:35:45   and it's all related to "Gamergate."

00:35:47   I wanted to just say, first off,

00:35:48   I wanted to send all my best wishes to Brianna.

00:35:50   She's great.

00:35:51   I've never met her in person,

00:35:52   but she's been great on the podcasts and on Twitter.

00:35:55   And I really appreciate working with her

00:35:57   and look forward to working with her more in the future.

00:36:00   And about the "Gamergate" thing,

00:36:02   I'm not really a gamer.

00:36:04   I'm kind of a fake gamer.

00:36:05   What I would say is it's really dispiriting.

00:36:09   And John Syracuse's, everything that he said on ATP

00:36:11   is pretty much what I think.

00:36:13   It's really sad to see people making threats,

00:36:16   attacking people, bullying people,

00:36:18   and essentially using troll tactics on the internet

00:36:21   to silence discussion of issues that they don't agree with.

00:36:26   And the fact that I approached this on this show

00:36:28   with some trepidation shows that this is actually

00:36:31   what they're trying to do.

00:36:33   They're trying to make it so inconvenient

00:36:34   to talk about these issues

00:36:35   that everybody just shuts up about them.

00:36:38   And I definitely feel uncomfortable about it and I've been hammered on Twitter

00:36:42   by expressing relatively mild things about

00:36:45   "Gamergate" by the trolls and their sock puppets.

00:36:49   Which, boy, trolls and sock puppets sound so much more fun than it actually is.

00:36:53   Wouldn't that be a great game?

00:36:55   Like, sock puppets that just kill trolls or something? I don't know.

00:36:59   Anyway, it's really a dispiriting way where the darkest parts of the internet get used

00:37:04   by people who have agendas that are not related to

00:37:07   What the gamer gate is supposedly about to attack people mostly women?

00:37:14   to push forward an agenda that is mostly anti woman and

00:37:18   Has some pretty serious political undertones as well that they will deny

00:37:23   It's you know, I don't know. I don't know what more to say other than

00:37:29   People like Brianna have my full support. I feel like gaming is a powerful enough cultural force that it can

00:37:37   Take a whole lot of cultural criticism

00:37:39   Games make more money than big budget motion pictures

00:37:43   People who like games are not an endangered species. They are in fact

00:37:49   among the most catered to people on the planet and

00:37:54   When you you know, you've got it good when people start to criticize you and being criticized isn't fun

00:38:01   But it's also a sign you made it and then you got to act

00:38:04   You've got to act it the right way when people criticize you and learn to deal with the criticism and maybe

00:38:10   even listen to it and use it to learn about yourself and

00:38:15   Grow and I do believe actually that one of the reasons all this gamergate stuff is happening

00:38:20   I've seen it in some other areas again. I

00:38:23   I really don't like to get political because that's not what I'm here for and although I have opinions

00:38:27   They're fairly moderate in nature and they're for sure to outrage the most outrageable people on either side of me

00:38:34   but I feel like this is similar to something like gay marriage which

00:38:38   well in this country is tipping rapidly toward being accepted almost everywhere and

00:38:43   That's when people get the most angry is when they see that they're on the wrong side and that the world is changing and some of

00:38:50   their well-held-to beliefs are going to go away, that women are part of gaming and aren't

00:38:59   going to go away, and can't just be used as toys in video games.

00:39:06   And of course people are going to react badly when they realize that the arc of history

00:39:13   is bending away from them.

00:39:15   And I'd like to think that's what we're seeing now.

00:39:18   And I'm not excusing behavior, I'm saying it explains why they're so vociferous about

00:39:23   it is that they know they're losing it and they're gonna lose it.

00:39:27   And they're just gonna go out in a blaze of infamy, I guess?

00:39:31   Anyway, it really upsets me that somebody as cool as Brianna Wu could get chased out

00:39:38   of her home because she has an opinion about how women should have opportunities in video

00:39:44   games, like of all the things, to be chased out of your home about that. Very

00:39:50   upsetting. So anyway, yeah, there it is. Go listen to ATP After Show from last week.

00:39:58   Jon did a great job. Jon Siracusa is a marvel because he is the most...

00:40:04   I think what I say is that he's a computer programmer with the soul of an

00:40:09   artist. He's... and he did get art training. He's a very empathetic person and I

00:40:13   I think that's one of the reasons why people love him,

00:40:16   'cause he brings a giant bowl of empathy with him

00:40:19   when he talks about technical issues,

00:40:21   and that mixture is amazing.

00:40:22   And he has done a great job talking about this.

00:40:25   Very, I mean, he wouldn't say that.

00:40:27   He'd be like, "Oh, well, I botched it.

00:40:28   "I talked about this and that,

00:40:29   "and you should read this article."

00:40:30   But I think he actually does a very good job

00:40:31   of getting to the heart of why some of these people

00:40:34   are so angry and why we should pity them

00:40:36   more than anything else,

00:40:37   because they obviously have terrible things happening

00:40:40   that have caused them to act this way.

00:40:43   doesn't excuse them but that empathy is interesting to say you know for somebody

00:40:48   to behave like this they really have to be in pain and messed up and that's sad

00:40:52   and anyway so all my best to Brianna and everybody else who's been affected by

00:40:57   the gamergate crap because it's a it's a real shame that we live in a world where

00:41:02   stuff like that can happen. Me and Federica took a bit of time to

00:41:06   discuss gamergate on episode 9 of virtual on this fine podcast network

00:41:11   I agree with the fact that like, Jon is empathetic. I am not so much and kind of

00:41:19   just questioned the terrible side of humanity for a bit. Federico does a

00:41:27   great- if you don't really understand Gamergate and this whole thing

00:41:31   that's happening, because it is very complex, Federico on the episode did a

00:41:35   very very good job of going back to the beginning and explaining it. So he spoke

00:41:40   for about half an hour or 40 minutes or so explaining everything, then I basically shouted

00:41:45   for 10 minutes, so if that's the kind of thing that you'd like to hear, you should go and

00:41:50   check that out, and that's in our show notes for today, as well as that fantastic episode

00:41:53   of ATP as well.

00:41:56   It's all after the show, or the end theme song, it's all in the post show for ATP, because

00:42:01   they like to do it that way, but it's a good, you know, I like to hear John, it's largely

00:42:06   it's John trying to understand why, and list all the reasons why this is bad, but also

00:42:10   of why it happens. And then it's Casey just being like you, actually, you guys, and this

00:42:14   is why you do the show about the feels too. And Casey just being like, I don't understand

00:42:18   it. It really makes me angry, you know, like, which is an absolutely natural response. And

00:42:22   for me, I learned a long time ago that I'm a conflict avoider. I like everybody to get

00:42:25   along. Let's just not. And so something like this is really difficult because it, uh, your

00:42:31   choices between avoiding conflict and saying nothing and allowing it to go and go on or

00:42:35   saying something and getting hit with the conflict. And that's why I said, you know,

00:42:39   One of the ways that this is insidious is all the sock puppets, all the anger, what

00:42:45   they're trying to do is get people to stop talking about it, because that's one of the

00:42:50   goals, is don't talk about it.

00:42:52   Try to divert people, try to make people just want to avoid the subject.

00:42:58   And essentially what that's doing is saying, "We want people to shut up about this, so

00:43:01   we're going to make life miserable for them until they shut up."

00:43:04   And as much as I like to avoid conflict, if that's the alternative, then I can't do that.

00:43:11   Because that's a line too far, and somebody I know and have positive feelings toward is

00:43:17   like on the run now because she had an opinion about video games.

00:43:21   And I can't be silent.

00:43:23   So for what it's worth...

00:43:25   I don't know if I did mention this in virtual, but I wanted to...

00:43:30   amount of respect I have for Brianna because I know that if I was in her situation I would

00:43:36   shut up.

00:43:39   Yeah it would be so easy to do that and she said that. I mean fortunately, and I say this

00:43:42   with actually a great deal of affection, Brianna doesn't back down from anything. She's happy

00:43:48   to be kind of a loudmouth and get pissed off and good for her because it takes people like

00:43:54   that because there are a whole lot of other people who feel the same way who just, you

00:43:59   know, they look at her like, "Why am I doing this?" And for her, she is

00:44:04   saying, "I am spending huge amounts of time. I am affecting my life, but I'm

00:44:09   doing it for the future of an industry that she loves." Also, that's the other

00:44:13   thing is she gets attacked for like not being really into games. It's like, she

00:44:17   loves games so much that she is willing to do this, because she wants

00:44:22   other girls growing up to be able to feel more welcome

00:44:27   in this industry and even just playing games.

00:44:32   And she knows that that's not gonna happen

00:44:34   unless the women in games today say something.

00:44:38   And so full credit to her 'cause yeah, I'm with you.

00:44:40   I mean, it makes me, I get, ugh, I hate it.

00:44:45   I hate even talking about it,

00:44:47   but you can't not talk about it

00:44:48   because that's what they want you to do

00:44:50   is not talk about it.

00:44:51   And I think that the reason that we are talking about it now

00:44:55   is because of Brianna, because she is making it

00:44:58   that it cannot be avoided, and that's how it should be.

00:45:01   You mentioned this, right?

00:45:02   She is bringing this out now,

00:45:04   and is basically putting us in a position

00:45:07   where we have to talk about this,

00:45:09   because it's like, I can't stand by now

00:45:13   and watch this unfold as it is.

00:45:15   It makes me feel sick.

00:45:16   - Well, she sent out something very pointed,

00:45:19   where she was like, I expected more Apple-related bloggers

00:45:23   and podcast hosts to talk about this issue

00:45:25   and a lot of them have been silent.

00:45:28   And I wrote back to her and I said,

00:45:29   well, when the death threats and stuff happened,

00:45:32   I wrote a thing on Six Colors about it,

00:45:34   but I haven't mentioned it on my podcast

00:45:36   and I will rectify that tomorrow and that's today.

00:45:38   And there it is.

00:45:40   And maybe we'll talk more about it.

00:45:41   The only other thing I'll say about Gamergate

00:45:45   is if it's about ethics and journalism,

00:45:47   it's doing a really lousy job

00:45:49   because there are lots of issues

00:45:50   and this is well-documented,

00:45:51   there are lots of great issues about true ethical issues

00:45:54   with games journalism in particular

00:45:55   and you could broaden it to even more other aspects

00:45:58   of journalism including tech journalism if you'd like.

00:46:01   But yet, you know, that's not what it's about

00:46:04   because if it was about those things,

00:46:06   we would actually be seeing things that address

00:46:09   all of the issues of ethics and journalism.

00:46:11   Instead, it's conspiracy theories and attacks

00:46:15   and misogyny and people being used as in the phrase as convenient idiots people being used

00:46:23   by people with ulterior motives and lied to and pointed in directions that they might

00:46:27   not go if they knew the whole story and it's sad but it's not about ethics because there

00:46:31   are lots of ethical issues and journalism and these people aren't addressing them they're

00:46:36   just spinning conspiracy theories and attacking people sad.

00:46:44   So Myke, ahoy telephone!

00:46:50   Let me take a shower, I'll be right back.

00:46:53   Do you want to take a break here?

00:46:55   Yeah, let's take a break and we'll come back with something awesome.

00:47:01   After a word from some friends of ours, I bet.

00:47:04   Let's reset and talk about Igloo.

00:47:07   We love Igloo.

00:47:08   Igloo is an internet you'll actually like.

00:47:10   Hulu is built from the ground up for people that have had to use intranet products. It

00:47:16   is built to be the complete opposite of what you are used to. It's actually built to be

00:47:22   easy to use, which is not always a thing for intranet products. It has fantastic apps like

00:47:28   you're used to. It has stuff like shared calendars, Twitter-like micro-blogs, file sharing, task

00:47:33   management. It's the full solution that you'd want in a product that's supposed to make

00:47:38   you more connected and productive with your co-workers.

00:47:41   That's what igloo is all about.

00:47:42   It helps you work better together with the people you work with.

00:47:46   You are easily able to do things like co-author documents.

00:47:50   Maybe you want to share status updates on what the food truck outside is serving today.

00:47:55   Or maybe you want to be able to manage your projects easily with the people that you work

00:47:59   with all in one place.

00:48:00   You can do all that with igloo.

00:48:03   If someone makes changes to an item in igloo, they send out notifications and you choose

00:48:07   the way you want to receive them, which is really great. The types of things you want

00:48:10   to receive notifications for, how do you want to get them. That's the sort of stuff you

00:48:13   can finally hone and make to be the exact way that you want. This keeps you up to date

00:48:18   with everything. All items like documents that you save have a complete version history

00:48:23   maintained. This keeps you in touch with everyone and in case crazy Annie decides to delete

00:48:28   that thing from the spreadsheet that you put in the other day, you're going to be able

00:48:31   to get it all back again.

00:48:33   Gartner, I love this bit, released their famed report, "The Magic Quadrant for Social Software

00:48:39   in the Workplace," and Igloo appears on this report for the sixth consecutive year, alongside

00:48:45   Microsoft, IBM, Google, and SAP.

00:48:48   Jason, would you like to hear an excerpt from the Gartner profile of Igloo?

00:48:53   Would I, Myke?

00:48:54   Well, let me tell you.

00:48:56   Feedback from Igloo's reference customers was consistently positive.

00:48:59   They praised the product's quick deployment, configuration, and customization flexibility

00:49:03   with self-service options for non-technical users, control over branding and information

00:49:08   organization ease of use.

00:49:10   They also praised the responsiveness of igloo as a whole organization.

00:49:14   Basically what this is, if you need me to help you sift through that, is igloo is really

00:49:19   easy to set up, even for people that are not that technical, you can very easily customize

00:49:23   it and make it fit with part of your business, you have complete control over it and it's

00:49:26   super awesome.

00:49:27   I don't know what more you need than that.

00:49:29   If your company has legacy internet software built on SharePoint or old portal technology,

00:49:35   you should be giving igloo a try.

00:49:38   Quite frankly, you should be trying them if you're in any business because they're free

00:49:41   to use with up to 10 people and you can sign up right now at igloosoftware.com/upgrade.

00:49:46   Thank you so much to igloo for the support of this show and all of Relay FM.

00:49:51   Before we get to the Retina iMac, which is our next discussion today, I want to tell

00:49:55   you about one other little quick thing.

00:49:57   Yes.

00:49:58   Very quick.

00:49:59   Very quick, at Real AFM we want to make sure that we're connecting you, the listener, with

00:50:05   the best type of sponsors and advertisers that we can.

00:50:08   A great way to do this is for us to find out just a little bit more about you.

00:50:13   So we have a short anonymous survey that we'd like you to take.

00:50:15   It takes no more than five minutes to complete.

00:50:18   Your answers will help us match you guys with the best advertisers for you to make sure

00:50:22   that we are keeping a good match between the types of things that you enjoy and the types

00:50:26   of things you hear on this show.

00:50:28   who completes this survey will be entered into an ongoing monthly raffle to win a $100

00:50:33   Amazon gift card. We promise that we will not share or sell your email address when

00:50:38   you do this. No email will be sent to you unless you are a winner of the $100 Amazon

00:50:43   gift card. So please go to podsurvey.com/upgrade and fill that out and help out Upgrade and

00:50:50   RelayFN. Thank you.

00:50:51   Yes, you know, Myke, not to make you all feel guilty, but Myke and I recently left our jobs

00:50:56   or in the process of leaving our jobs and this is one of the ways we actually hope to

00:51:00   support ourselves, if not the only way for Myke.

00:51:02   So filling out that survey really helps because it helps us find good advertisers and allow

00:51:08   them to be happy and allow us to live.

00:51:12   So no pressure.

00:51:14   It helps us find new advertisers because we can kind of say to them this is what we know

00:51:18   because at the moment, aside from knowing that you're all very very handsome and beautiful

00:51:22   people. We only know that you download the show that's effectively it and we

00:51:27   know where in the world you are because that's what we get from our hosting

00:51:30   provider. That's all we know. Yeah exactly so podsurvey.com/upgrade

00:51:40   I don't think we're gonna talk about the Kindle. Oh no no!

00:51:45   Well what do you what so well the Kindle the Kindle has lasted this long it could

00:51:50   last another week if we need to. The fact is there's so much going on now.

00:51:55   Somebody was telling me, you know, "Wow, you've been doing a lot of stuff lately."

00:51:58   I was like, "Well, yeah, I happen to launch my new site and my new podcast right as

00:52:03   Apple does like its busiest six weeks of the year, which is now, where all the new

00:52:08   things are coming out." And, you know, in April, plenty of time, but right now

00:52:13   things are crazy. So if we don't get to the Kindle this week, you know, we will

00:52:17   get to it and I I've only you know used it for a couple of days so if I learn

00:52:23   more about it and we give it the room that it deserves then so be it. In April

00:52:28   we'll really be exploring the verticals. Oh man, it may be vertical month.

00:52:35   Hey Jason what did you have for lunch today? Lunch vertical, important food

00:52:40   related vertical. Okay what do you want to know about the about the retina iMac?

00:52:45   I've had it for a week. My review went up on Six Colors last Friday, Thursday, somewhere in there.

00:52:50   And so it's right behind me, as it was when we recorded the last episode, but I'd only

00:52:57   turned it on then. So what would you like to know? So how have you, you haven't had a retina

00:53:03   computer before have you? You haven't had a retina Mac before? No, I've used a retina MacBook Pro a

00:53:09   a little bit, but I've never had one

00:53:12   as my main system before.

00:53:13   - So how have you found using Retina just day to day?

00:53:17   - That's a good question.

00:53:23   - So let me tell you my feelings.

00:53:26   Let's see if I can try to say it.

00:53:26   - Yes, please.

00:53:27   - 'Cause I have a Retina MacBook Pro

00:53:28   and I've been using a Retina MacBook Pro

00:53:31   for over a year at least.

00:53:33   And I kind of find it to be here and there.

00:53:38   So it's easy for me to forget that it has Retina

00:53:41   because I use Retina devices all the time.

00:53:44   So it's just like, this is a screen that I like.

00:53:47   Anything less than this is just a bad screen

00:53:49   and these are all just like standard screens.

00:53:53   But I still have a bunch of apps that aren't Retina ready.

00:53:58   Microsoft Word, which I do have to use sometimes

00:54:01   and it's just a mess, like just horrible.

00:54:04   - Microsoft Word really still doesn't have Retina text

00:54:08   display? The text in the documents is but like everything else.

00:54:13   All the art and stuff is not written? Just everything is not written

00:54:18   already. I'm opening it right now just to confirm all of that but yeah no it's

00:54:21   definitely not I can see it as soon as I open the app. It's a real sorry state of

00:54:26   affairs there but anyway so I mean so and also you know there there are parts

00:54:32   of the web as well which don't look great on these devices I can only assume

00:54:36   assume that it's interesting on a screen of that size.

00:54:40   So how have you found it to be day to day?

00:54:43   - It's a fast Mac and that's good.

00:54:48   And the screen is beautiful.

00:54:50   I mean, the Mac retina experience is what it is.

00:54:53   So if you've seen, especially Yosemite on a random MacBook

00:54:56   Pro or something like that, you've seen it.

00:54:57   And it's very nice.

00:54:59   And the images are arresting because you're used to seeing

00:55:05   a certain resolution for images.

00:55:07   And it's almost like they're deeper somehow

00:55:09   that you look at it and it's just the same size

00:55:11   and yet somehow there's more in it

00:55:13   because there's literally much more information

00:55:15   in that picture.

00:55:16   They're little tiny details that would previously

00:55:19   have just been washed away.

00:55:20   It's a little bit like going from, you know,

00:55:21   standard def to high def for TV or something like that

00:55:24   where the picture is the same

00:55:25   except the details are completely different.

00:55:29   So if you've seen a Retina MacBook Pro, you've seen it,

00:55:34   except that it's sort of the screen

00:55:36   is the size of four of those screens.

00:55:38   But it's, I don't know, it's beautiful.

00:55:41   Is it necessary?

00:55:44   I had some people tell me that they thought it was.

00:55:46   I think like, if you're a designer,

00:55:48   if you're a photographer, it's necessary.

00:55:50   You should get one.

00:55:52   If you're not, then it's, or like a video editor,

00:55:56   if you're not, it's nice.

00:55:59   And eventually they'll all be like this.

00:56:01   Is it necessary?

00:56:02   Eh, probably not.

00:56:03   But for me, the niceness plus the fact that I'm in the market

00:56:06   for a faster computer and this iMac is,

00:56:10   other than some of the higher end Mac Pros

00:56:14   for multi-threaded processing power,

00:56:17   this is the fastest Mac around.

00:56:19   And you can get one for $500 to start,

00:56:23   $500 less than a MacBook Pro

00:56:25   and it comes with the 27 inch retina display.

00:56:28   So it's a pretty good deal for somebody

00:56:31   who thinks of themselves as a power user of a Mac

00:56:34   who wants a desktop system with a big screen,

00:56:37   if you can afford it, it's a good deal.

00:56:40   It's still an expensive computer at 2,500,

00:56:43   but if you can afford it, it's a pretty good deal

00:56:45   because you're getting that screen

00:56:46   and you're getting a lot of power.

00:56:48   This is not a halfway kind of system.

00:56:52   The processor and the GPU are pretty impressive.

00:56:57   - I think maybe if you're thinking about

00:57:00   what's necessary, potentially a,

00:57:04   the power is more necessary than the retina.

00:57:08   - I agree. - Most people.

00:57:10   - The reason that I wanted, well, there are two reasons.

00:57:13   One, I think I mentioned this last week,

00:57:15   is what Dan Morin's calling our rich uncle who died

00:57:19   and left us some money, which is that our former employer

00:57:23   has as one of our farewell parting gifts,

00:57:26   has given us some money toward a computer

00:57:28   to get us on our way and get us on our feet

00:57:30   and stop eating beans out of a can.

00:57:33   And in order to do that,

00:57:35   you gotta buy it within like three months or something.

00:57:37   So I'm in the market for a computer is what I'm saying.

00:57:40   And I also discovered when we were trying to do

00:57:44   some live streaming of the Dungeons and Dragons podcast

00:57:47   I do over on the incomparable called Total Party Kill,

00:57:49   that my little dual core MacBook Air cannot compress video

00:57:54   and stream it on the fly.

00:57:57   It can't do that.

00:57:58   - Oh, just saying.

00:58:00   So I'm in the market for more computing power.

00:58:02   And as we said last week, with that quad core

00:58:04   that our good listener Shep tells you not,

00:58:09   you know, that you should find remaindered somewhere.

00:58:12   With that off the price list,

00:58:15   if I want a new Mac, my choices are narrowed.

00:58:19   And so I look at this system and I think,

00:58:20   well, I got some money coming from my former employer.

00:58:22   I need a fast system.

00:58:23   I want a quad core processor.

00:58:25   And yeah, so the processor makes it necessary.

00:58:28   and then the screen makes it nice.

00:58:31   - Yeah, I had the question about the,

00:58:35   if I can, you know, your rich uncle.

00:58:38   Did they assume that nobody had,

00:58:40   did you all have computers that were provided

00:58:43   by the company?

00:58:44   Or did they assume nobody has computers or something?

00:58:47   - Actually, we all did have computers

00:58:49   provided by the company.

00:58:50   That is the case.

00:58:52   The company provides you with a computer to work with.

00:58:54   So I think part of what they were saying here

00:58:57   is and the way it's tasked is they say something like it's you can either take it as job training.

00:59:03   Again, some of these outplacement things are very strange and they come from

00:59:07   industries that are different from our industries. So it may be like we're more like we're steel

00:59:16   workers than we're writers. Although you could argue that that journalism maybe is doomed in

00:59:20   industry as being a steel worker. So you could do like job retraining from a couple of different job

00:59:26   retraining firms, or you can put the money toward equipment and material that would help you with

00:59:31   your future career path. And one of those was, very specifically was, you could buy a computer.

00:59:36   And I think it's great that they're that flexible about it. Like we can get you set up with something

00:59:40   that you can use to look for a job or do a job, and we'll pitch in with that. And so, for my

00:59:47   former colleagues who left IDG, that's one of the benefits that we get as part of our departure,

00:59:53   which is which is really nice and so I you know we need to take advantage of that so Dan bought like

00:59:57   a MacBook Air and uh maybe an iPad or something and I'm gonna buy this this iMac I bought it

01:00:03   I ordered it what would you have developed the forum to get reimbursed for it what would you

01:00:08   have retrained as like what industry would you have retrained into if you were going to use it

01:00:14   for retraining lessons? Like circus or something? I think I have no other useful skills. So

01:00:26   if I went to the circus I'd have to be the guy, one of the announcers. I could do that.

01:00:31   Presenting now! Maybe not. You know, I don't know. This is what I do. So I'm sure somebody

01:00:41   in the, you know, what is the line from Ghostbusters in the hospitality or food service industry?

01:00:48   Yeah. Or, you know, I hear steel work is nice.

01:00:54   At this time of year. You mentioned something, I just need, I feel like I need a bit of clarification

01:01:02   on this technically if you can. This is from your view, a great review of the Rettner iMac.

01:01:08   The iMac's got one in three times the pixels

01:01:11   as the 15-inch MacBook Pro.

01:01:13   Explain to me, is this just the space on screen?

01:01:19   Because the PPI is similar enough, right?

01:01:23   The 15-inch Retina MacBook Pro has a higher PPI at 227

01:01:27   than the iMac does at about 200, if my Googling is correct.

01:01:31   So I'm assuming there that what you're saying is

01:01:33   it's just bigger, right?

01:01:35   So it's better because it's bigger.

01:01:37   Is that what, am I right in thinking that

01:01:39   or is it more than that?

01:01:41   - Yeah, and I think I went back,

01:01:44   I changed this section so I may have changed it,

01:01:45   but basically the 15 inch MacBook Pro

01:01:47   has about 5 million pixels

01:01:49   and the 13 inch has about 4 million pixels, right?

01:01:54   And the iMac with retina display has what,

01:01:58   what did we say?

01:01:58   14.7 million pixels.

01:02:00   So it's basically three times as many as the 15 inch

01:02:04   and more than three times as many as the 13 inch.

01:02:06   So it's size, the PPI is not that different,

01:02:10   but like literally if you can think of 15 inch diagonal

01:02:14   and then 27 inch diagonal is almost double,

01:02:17   but remember it's not just double

01:02:19   because it's in two dimensions.

01:02:20   So it's quadruple, almost quadruple.

01:02:23   - Yeah.

01:02:24   - And so, yeah, it's, yeah, it's 15 megapixels versus five.

01:02:29   So triple the pixels more or less if you're rounding,

01:02:32   which is close enough.

01:02:35   It's size, it's just a huge screen.

01:02:37   It's so even though the,

01:02:39   it's not like the type is notably bigger or smaller,

01:02:41   it's just that there's more of it.

01:02:43   This is a 27, it's a little bit like the,

01:02:45   when you go to a place, a showroom that has TVs,

01:02:49   and you look at a TV and you think,

01:02:50   "Oh, this isn't that big."

01:02:51   And then you get it home

01:02:52   and it doesn't fit through your door

01:02:53   'cause it's actually huge.

01:02:54   It was just the context of the showroom

01:02:56   that made it seem small

01:02:57   because it was next to an even larger TV.

01:03:00   The iMac's kind of like that.

01:03:01   27 inches, it's big, it is huge.

01:03:04   And until you see it, you kind of forget.

01:03:07   And then if you put one in the context of your own home,

01:03:10   then like I have done, it's really big.

01:03:14   I look at a 24 inch monitor all day.

01:03:18   So the 27 inches is not much bigger,

01:03:20   but it is definitely bigger.

01:03:23   - I assume it just feels bigger as well.

01:03:25   Like the resolution makes it feel bigger

01:03:28   than it physically is.

01:03:29   - Yeah, and it's really bright.

01:03:30   I mean, you can turn down the brightness obviously,

01:03:32   but it's a big, bright, super sharp display.

01:03:36   It's pretty impressive.

01:03:37   - I imagine kind of when you sit at that computer,

01:03:39   you know the guy who's sitting in the armchair

01:03:42   in front of the jet engine with like the listening to,

01:03:46   you know what I'm talking about, right?

01:03:47   - On headphones, I know what you're talking about.

01:03:49   - I imagine that's what you're like sitting

01:03:51   in front of the brightness of this thing.

01:03:52   You get in a suntan as you're sitting and working.

01:03:56   - I did have to scale down the brightness

01:03:57   and turn on some lights so that I didn't get just, yeah.

01:04:01   There you go, nerds.

01:04:03   We'll all just buy a 27-inch iMac,

01:04:05   so turn up the brightness and we'll talk about that sometimes.

01:04:07   - Get that iMac tan.

01:04:08   - Yeah, perfect.

01:04:09   You mentioned one thing in your review

01:04:12   about how you felt graphics performance was fine,

01:04:16   but if you open a lot of windows and spaces

01:04:18   and use mission control, you see pauses and stuttering.

01:04:21   I have had this problem on my iMac Pro.

01:04:24   There is an issue in Yosemite, I believe.

01:04:29   For example, it's weird.

01:04:31   If I use the trackpad and I try and swipe between spaces, like I swipe and it kind of

01:04:35   moves like a quarter of the way and just gets stuck.

01:04:38   But if I use my magic mouse, it doesn't happen so much.

01:04:41   One thing that I have found that's helped significantly is turning off transparency,

01:04:45   which you can do in System Preferences/Accessibility.

01:04:49   That has pretty much solved the problem.

01:04:51   I also zapped the PRAM at the suggestion of Stephen Hackett, because that's the kind of

01:04:55   thing that he's really good at telling me to do.

01:04:57   tells me to zap the PRAM quite a lot, so I went and did that. It's old school.

01:05:01   Uh-huh, and it fixed it. The combination of those two things pretty much

01:05:05   fixed it. So if you are having problems with this on a retina machine, turn off

01:05:08   transparency. I actually think at the moment I prefer the way Yosemite looks

01:05:13   without transparency. That's a discussion for another time maybe. Yeah, right

01:05:17   after we talk about the Kindle. Right after the Kindle, yeah, we'll get to Yosemite

01:05:21   in about May of next year. But yeah, that's something that I think that's a

01:05:25   software problem and I think it will probably, well I hope it will be fixed, I really genuinely

01:05:30   hope it will be fixed because if Apple were testing, I actually don't know how that sort

01:05:35   of thing gets retesting unless it's like it affects a small percentage of people and then

01:05:39   I still hope that they fix it because I'm sure they were testing Yosemite on Retina

01:05:43   Macs. Well yeah, yes I'm sure they were on the Retina MacBook Pro, maybe not on the iMac

01:05:48   if it was off in a lab somewhere and not announced but yeah, you would think so. And it's variable

01:05:53   Like if I open a lot of windows,

01:05:55   it's more stuttery than if I open a few.

01:05:57   And I saw somebody posted a YouTube video

01:06:01   that looked horribly stuttery,

01:06:03   and I didn't experience that when I tried to replicate it.

01:06:06   So I think there's some strange variability going on here.

01:06:09   I do think there's some bugs.

01:06:10   Also individual apps do a better or worse job.

01:06:12   You pointed out like Microsoft Word has a lot of issues

01:06:15   not being retina friendly.

01:06:17   I found out that Logic Pro 10,

01:06:19   Logic Pro 10 has huge performance issues

01:06:22   when it's running in retina mode, it'll run,

01:06:24   but it's all stuttery and like pinching and zooming

01:06:27   with my track pad, it's laggy and it's stuttery.

01:06:32   And so here's another tip,

01:06:33   if you're somebody using a retina Mac of any kind

01:06:36   and you're unhappy with its performance,

01:06:39   if you go to the finder and open that app in the finder

01:06:43   and choose get info, select it and choose get info, command I

01:06:48   you'll discover a checkbox that you may not know existed

01:06:52   because it doesn't exist on non-retina Macs.

01:06:55   And the checkbox is open in low resolution.

01:06:58   And if you check that box, when you open the app,

01:07:01   it basically runs it at 1X scaled instead of at 2X retina.

01:07:06   And when I did that with Logic Pro X, totally worked,

01:07:10   totally fixed it, no stuttering, no lag.

01:07:14   But something like iMovie was able to run in 2X

01:07:18   and scrolling on a timeline and zooming in on a timeline

01:07:21   and all the things that Logic couldn't do flawlessly.

01:07:24   So it's Logic's problem, not the IMAX problem,

01:07:29   but you would think that they would fix that.

01:07:33   - It's really sad that you have to do that,

01:07:36   like really sad.

01:07:38   - I love that that feature's there, right?

01:07:40   I love that feature.

01:07:41   It's like, just forget Retina on this app, just forget it.

01:07:44   Don't even try.

01:07:45   That's good.

01:07:46   That's, I like that it exists 'cause it fixed the problem.

01:07:51   I was gonna edit an episode of "The Incomparable"

01:07:54   on the Retina iMac.

01:07:55   And that was what I had to do.

01:07:57   I had to do get info and set it to low res mode.

01:08:02   And then it looked normal.

01:08:03   I mean, as normal as it normally looks, it looked like 1X.

01:08:08   Didn't look all fancy, but I don't need all fancy.

01:08:10   I wanted the processor power, not fancy graphics

01:08:12   for something like Logic 'cause it's audio.

01:08:15   And that little checkbox solved it.

01:08:18   - Ah, I just did it with Tweetbot.

01:08:20   Oh my, oh, this is horrible, Jason.

01:08:23   - What have I done?

01:08:25   Well, it's not, you shouldn't try it.

01:08:27   You should only do it when you need it.

01:08:29   If there's a problem. - Well, I just wanted to see.

01:08:30   I just wanted to see what it looked like.

01:08:31   - Word, maybe.

01:08:33   Well, no, 'cause you don't want the text to look awful.

01:08:35   But if you have issues with something looking

01:08:38   totally broken on retina, you can check the box.

01:08:41   - I just wanted to see what would happen.

01:08:43   And now your Twitter is all fuzzy and awful.

01:08:46   - Yeah, it looks bad.

01:08:47   Yeah, so for Word, like to give a bit of a real time

01:08:49   follow up on Word, the text that I type in

01:08:53   does render correctly, but like menus and toolbars,

01:08:56   that does not render in retina.

01:08:58   I can't understand what they're doing.

01:09:01   It's so confusing to me.

01:09:03   So strange.

01:09:04   Okay, we touched on it briefly,

01:09:07   but do you have any different feelings about Yosemite

01:09:09   now having used it more extensively on a retina machine?

01:09:13   if you haven't already, I mean, when you reviewed,

01:09:15   were you using a retina machine at all?

01:09:17   - Well, I have, so my Yosemite reference system

01:09:24   is a retina MacBook Pro that is a loan from Apple.

01:09:28   So that's been my experience with retina,

01:09:30   has been on that system.

01:09:31   - Right, so you kind of, your feelings remain the same

01:09:37   in essence about it.

01:09:39   - Yeah, it is.

01:09:42   I mean, the experience is not any different

01:09:45   running it on an iMac than running it on a MacBook Pro,

01:09:47   other than that you've gone from a smaller screen

01:09:48   to a bigger screen.

01:09:49   And Yosemite, you know, that Helvetica Neue light is a way,

01:09:54   actually the way I would put it,

01:10:00   when I was booting up the Retina iMac,

01:10:03   I was looking at that font and I thought, wow,

01:10:05   that font is, that's sharp enough,

01:10:06   it could cut you by looking at it.

01:10:09   And I think there's, I mean, it is so sharp.

01:10:11   Whereas on a regular screen, it's a font, it's there.

01:10:16   But on the retina screens, it's super thin and sharp

01:10:20   and it looks great.

01:10:21   And yet also, it looks like a font

01:10:23   that is designed for that kind of a screen

01:10:27   because it's just super thin and it's very impressive.

01:10:32   So, I don't know, it's a Mac.

01:10:34   Eventually all Macs are gonna be like that,

01:10:36   but it looks great.

01:10:37   And then I turned, I pivoted from my iMac

01:10:40   to my regular display while working on the review

01:10:44   and had one of those moments where I was just like, ah!

01:10:46   Like there's a film across my, what happened to my screen?

01:10:49   It's all messed up now.

01:10:50   And then after like 10 minutes it went away

01:10:52   and it seems normal again.

01:10:53   And then I look at the retina display and I go, ah!

01:10:56   What happened?

01:10:56   And every time.

01:10:58   So you get used to it.

01:11:00   - The future of Apple Computers Incorporated

01:11:05   It's to go all retina, I assume, everywhere.

01:11:07   Everything will be retina.

01:11:09   - Yes.

01:11:10   - I mean, it's safe to assume where we stand right now.

01:11:12   There will be, you know, all of the laptops will be retina,

01:11:15   there will be retina as, you know,

01:11:17   we don't know when that will happen.

01:11:18   There will be a retina cinema display,

01:11:21   the Mac Pro will be able to drive it, et cetera, et cetera.

01:11:24   - It will happen.

01:11:25   - But you know, you look at these things,

01:11:26   you're like, okay, screens are better now

01:11:29   than they were previously before retina.

01:11:31   Pre-retina screens were better than, like, you know,

01:11:34   lower resolution screens before it.

01:11:36   Can we go any further than Retina?

01:11:38   Like I know it's a dumb thing to say like,

01:11:40   this four megabytes of RAM is all I'll ever need.

01:11:43   But I mean, what point is it just like,

01:11:47   okay, the changes you're making,

01:11:48   people just can't see them anymore.

01:11:51   - Further than Retina.

01:11:53   - Well, we've done that with the iPhones, right?

01:11:56   We have Retina HD now,

01:11:58   because it wasn't high definition enough.

01:12:00   - Yeah.

01:12:02   - Well, I mean, I think that is the answer

01:12:04   about what you get when you go further.

01:12:07   You don't, I don't think beyond the point

01:12:10   at which you can't see the dots,

01:12:12   you don't get anything as a user,

01:12:14   except flexibility in what screen size you see.

01:12:19   So the idea with the iPhone 6 Plus is,

01:12:22   unless you are a really sharp-eyed

01:12:27   and picky designer, essentially,

01:12:32   or John Syracuse, I suppose.

01:12:34   You can't tell it,

01:12:38   you can't tell, but the iPhone 6 Plus screen is scaled,

01:12:41   right, it's 3X scaled down.

01:12:43   And the reason you can do that is that screen

01:12:46   is high resolution enough that when you scale,

01:12:49   it used to be if you scaled down an interface,

01:12:52   you could see it was all fuzzy

01:12:53   because you could see the dots that kind of fuzzed it out.

01:12:57   But when the dots are all too small to see individually,

01:13:01   the fuzz kind of just fades away

01:13:04   and you can't see the fuzz.

01:13:05   You just see what it wants you to see,

01:13:07   which is a scaled interface.

01:13:09   So that would be the advantage in all of these devices

01:13:12   of getting higher resolution is having an infinite number

01:13:17   or maybe not infinite, but you know,

01:13:20   a very large number of different resolutions

01:13:24   that you could scale to.

01:13:25   So you could basically say,

01:13:26   I want everything to be a little bit bigger

01:13:28   or a little bit smaller,

01:13:28   and it would all still look clear.

01:13:30   Instead of it being like right now,

01:13:33   where you can do a few steps on the iMac,

01:13:35   but even then some of them you can kind of tell.

01:13:38   But although like the Retina MacBook Pro,

01:13:41   I believe is a scaled interface.

01:13:42   I think it's scaled down from a higher resolution,

01:13:46   just like the iPhone 6 Plus.

01:13:48   And you can't really tell.

01:13:50   So that's the big advantage of going even further

01:13:54   is the more of that you could do

01:13:56   in terms of scaling the interface

01:13:58   to make it whatever size you wanted it to be.

01:14:01   And it would all just look good.

01:14:02   And it wouldn't matter that it wasn't

01:14:03   the native resolution of the display

01:14:05   because all of the anti-aliasing

01:14:08   and all of that is happening.

01:14:11   It's like subatomic anti-aliasing.

01:14:15   It's like, you can't see it.

01:14:17   And so it looks fine.

01:14:18   The problem with anti-aliasing was always

01:14:20   that you could see every pixel.

01:14:21   And so you could see that half shaded pixel

01:14:24   and it made everything fuzzy.

01:14:25   But when that half shaded pixel is something

01:14:27   that is just imperceptibly small,

01:14:29   then everything looks good.

01:14:31   So I think that's it.

01:14:32   'Cause otherwise, yes, practically,

01:14:34   text can't get more sharper than sharp text.

01:14:36   It's just once it's sharp,

01:14:38   once you can see it all, that's it.

01:14:40   But there are other ways that it can get better

01:14:44   for things like changing resolutions.

01:14:46   That's all I had. I don't know if you want to talk about anything else about the Retina

01:14:53   iMac or anything in general today.

01:14:56   I don't know. I think people should check out the review on sixcolors.com. Do that if

01:15:03   you haven't already. Great. Check your show notes.

01:15:07   Or there at relay.fm/upgrades/seven.

01:15:11   Lucky seven. We finally made it to lucky number seven, Myke.

01:15:15   I got a Kindle, but I guess we don't really have time to talk about that.

01:15:20   I'm reading things on the Kindle now and I will report back perhaps next week.

01:15:25   Who knows?

01:15:27   Oh man, I am sorry because I really thought we would do it this week and then I was looking at all the follow-up and the fact that I also got the red dot iMac.

01:15:33   I had a bunch of people who were, I assume, upgrade listeners who were very excited when I said I got my Kindle and they're like, "Write the review now!"

01:15:42   and I thought I got this iMac here I got a review and let me do that and then

01:15:47   I'll get to it so I got to get to it now and I and honestly I was working on that

01:15:52   a lot to the point where I wasn't reading as much for pleasure as I

01:15:56   usually do so I've only had a you know a few hours reading with the Kindle

01:16:00   Voyage and I want to spend some more some more time with it but it's neat I

01:16:03   like it but we can talk more because I want to talk about Kindles in general

01:16:08   too and why they exist and why you would even want one and all of those all

01:16:12   all of those things to maybe we could get a guest.

01:16:15   Oh, all right, I'm gonna ponder that one.

01:16:18   Maybe we could get a good like Kindle related guest.

01:16:21   Maybe not.

01:16:23   - Mr. Kindle.

01:16:24   - Mr. Kindle, well, Scott McNulty is Mr. Kindle.

01:16:27   Dare we dream of getting Scott McNulty on this podcast

01:16:29   where he could be like, I'm incomparable and be on,

01:16:31   but never say anything.

01:16:32   He may even be here today.

01:16:35   - I'd like to watch a lot of "The Guest".

01:16:38   - Wouldn't be the first time Scott buys,

01:16:40   he may have a problem, he buys every Kindle.

01:16:43   I've only bought about half the Kindles.

01:16:45   But yeah, we'll talk about it.

01:16:47   We'll talk about any books and Kindles

01:16:50   and different reading modes and stuff.

01:16:51   That's totally gonna happen.

01:16:52   It's not gonna be like the, you know,

01:16:55   the what is it John Sirkius always talked about?

01:16:58   He was promising an episode about file systems forever,

01:17:00   I think, and he finally did it.

01:17:02   So we'll get there, it's our white whale.

01:17:04   It's the Kindle episode.

01:17:06   It's gonna happen, just not this week.

01:17:08   So that's it, that's all I got.

01:17:09   I, my Apple Pay total is up to two.

01:17:13   So in the intervening week,

01:17:14   I only bought one other thing with Apple Pay

01:17:15   and it was a hot dog at a sporting event.

01:17:19   And yeah, and the retina iMac has to go back this week

01:17:24   to Apple, but mine is on order.

01:17:27   I ordered the one,

01:17:28   this is something we could talk about right before we go.

01:17:30   I ordered the one with the VESA mount on the back

01:17:33   instead of the foot.

01:17:34   And I don't know if people know this,

01:17:37   It used to be that you could get an iMac

01:17:39   and you could buy a $30 kit from Apple

01:17:41   and pop the foot off of it

01:17:43   and put on an adapter that was a VESA mount

01:17:47   so that you could then put it on an arm

01:17:49   or mount it to a wall.

01:17:51   And with the last design rev of the iMac,

01:17:53   that was no longer an option.

01:17:55   You can either order it with a foot or with a VESA mount.

01:17:59   And once it's in one format, you can't get it in the other.

01:18:02   You can't convert it back.

01:18:04   So you're committing.

01:18:05   So I used, so I've got my 24 inch monitor here on an arm

01:18:10   and I really like it.

01:18:11   I've got my desk and it's got stuff on the desk.

01:18:15   So I've got like a little thermometer

01:18:16   that tells me how warm it is in here.

01:18:18   And I've got a little remote control for my speakers

01:18:20   and I've got a little foam orange brain

01:18:25   that I like to squeeze 'cause it makes me happy.

01:18:28   I have to, I love it so much.

01:18:31   I have, this was sent with a,

01:18:33   some sort of game that we were all sent at Macworld

01:18:36   like 15 years ago.

01:18:38   And I took, and I had one and I loved it so much

01:18:41   that at one point I went around,

01:18:42   'cause I was gonna order more

01:18:44   and it turns out they didn't make them anymore.

01:18:46   So I went around to all of my coworkers and I said,

01:18:48   do you still have that orange brain?

01:18:50   And they all like had just put it in a drawer

01:18:51   and forgotten that it was there.

01:18:52   And I said, and can I have your orange brain?

01:18:54   So I have like three of these Nerf brains.

01:18:57   I love them.

01:18:58   So I've got that on my desk.

01:19:01   And then I put the retina iMac on my desk.

01:19:04   And we'll put a picture of the brain in the show notes.

01:19:07   And suddenly my desk was gone.

01:19:11   All there was was this screen

01:19:13   because it was at the front of the desk where I'm working

01:19:16   and it was huge.

01:19:17   And then the foot was there.

01:19:18   And then I have to like go around the iMac

01:19:20   to see that there's a desk behind it

01:19:22   and everything's inaccessible.

01:19:23   And you know what?

01:19:24   I really didn't like it.

01:19:25   And that was the moment where I decided

01:19:26   I'm gonna put this thing on an arm.

01:19:28   I don't want it sitting down on my desk.

01:19:29   I like it floating.

01:19:30   I like this monitor floating six or eight inches

01:19:33   above my desk where I've actually still got

01:19:35   a desktop below it.

01:19:36   And the way I figure it,

01:19:39   although there are ways to hack,

01:19:40   there are hilarious ways.

01:19:42   There are the people who make these VISA mounts

01:19:44   that are literally like a clamp that goes onto the foot

01:19:46   of the iMac and then you mount that.

01:19:49   And they look terrible.

01:19:51   I decided if ever there is a day where I wanna put that

01:19:55   on a stand, there are people who make VISA mount

01:19:59   monitor stands.

01:20:00   So I'll just go the other direction

01:20:01   and it won't have the metal Apple foot look to it,

01:20:04   but I don't care.

01:20:05   I really want it on an arm.

01:20:08   So we'll see.

01:20:10   Supposedly my monitor arm can hold 23 pounds

01:20:13   and the iMac is about 20 pounds.

01:20:14   So it should work, but we'll see.

01:20:16   That's the one I ordered and I upgraded.

01:20:18   I got the upgraded CPU and GPU

01:20:20   because I decided if uncle IDG

01:20:24   was gonna help me pay for it,

01:20:25   I was gonna splurge a little bit

01:20:27   and get something that could last a long time.

01:20:29   - Was it the Nerf Brain Ball?

01:20:32   - Possibly.

01:20:36   It is a Nerf Nickelodeon co-branded.

01:20:40   - Yeah, I got it.

01:20:41   - Oh, did you find it on the internet?

01:20:43   - Yeah, the Nick and Nerf Brain Ball.

01:20:45   It was from the '90s, shaped like a brain,

01:20:49   meant to throw like a football.

01:20:51   - Oh man, put that in the show notes.

01:20:53   - It's in there, it is in there.

01:20:54   - Okay, yeah, so I have three of those,

01:20:57   and it's from the '90s.

01:20:58   That's how long ago we got that.

01:21:00   It was some like some piece of software or CD-ROM or something that was like,

01:21:04   it'll magnify your brain power.

01:21:06   And to demonstrate that here's a foam nerf brain.

01:21:10   And like I said, uh, I don't even remember what that thing was.

01:21:14   And I went around and collected everybody's foam brains a couple of

01:21:16   years later, because I really liked it.

01:21:18   It's my little thing that I keep at my desk and I kind of squeeze it.

01:21:21   And, um, and, uh, I'm, you know, it's, it's, it helps me think.

01:21:26   I stare into the brain.

01:21:28   I give it a little squeeze. It helps me thank Myke.

01:21:30   So I want, that is why my iMac is going to be on an arm

01:21:33   because I gotta have the, I gotta have the phone brain handy.

01:21:36   Words to live by.

01:21:38   - With that, if you'd like to get the show notes

01:21:40   I mentioned earlier, really.fm/upgrades/seven.

01:21:43   You'll also find some contact links for us there.

01:21:45   I am iMyke on Twitter, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:21:48   And Mr. Jason Snell is @jsnell, J-S-N-E-L-L on Twitter.

01:21:53   And he writes the glorious sixcolors.com.

01:21:56   Thanks again to our sponsors for this week, Backblaze and igloo, and we'll be back next

01:22:01   week with another episode of Upgrade.

01:22:02   Bye bye.

01:22:03   Kindle Kindle Kindle.

01:22:05   Bye everybody.

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