6: The Enemy Discount


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   Hello and welcome to episode 6 of Upgrade on Relay FM.

00:00:13   This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by our friends at SMILE with TextExpander

00:00:17   where you can type more with less effort and Hover, simplified domain management.

00:00:22   My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined as always by the magnificent Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:28   Hi Myke, how's it going?

00:00:30   - I'm very well, sir, how are you?

00:00:31   - I am fascinated by the idea

00:00:34   that some of our sponsors are our friends

00:00:36   and some of them you didn't call them our friends.

00:00:38   And I'm waiting for the first sponsor who is our enemy.

00:00:41   - They're all our friends.

00:00:43   - No, but wouldn't it be great

00:00:44   if one of our enemies sponsored us just to infiltrate us,

00:00:47   brought to you by our enemies at Microsoft

00:00:51   and just roll with it.

00:00:52   I just, it's a dream I have one day

00:00:55   to be sponsored by an enemy.

00:00:56   'Cause that's when you really got them,

00:00:57   when the enemies have to sponsor you.

00:00:59   - Well, I'll get working on that.

00:01:00   - All right.

00:01:01   - If any of our enemies would like to sponsor us,

00:01:03   you can go to relay.fm/sponsor

00:01:05   and just put enemy in the subject line

00:01:06   of the email that you sent.

00:01:08   - It will give you the enemy discount,

00:01:10   which is a higher rate.

00:01:11   - Yes.

00:01:12   Oh, I like that.

00:01:13   (laughing)

00:01:14   - I am calling to you from the future.

00:01:16   Hello.

00:01:17   - Hello, future man.

00:01:18   - Here in the future, we have Retina IMAX

00:01:20   and we pay for things with our phones.

00:01:22   - Big show today.

00:01:23   (laughing)

00:01:25   - Yeah, yeah, there's a lot going on.

00:01:27   It's a big day today, busy day today, crazy.

00:01:29   - Yeah, very busy.

00:01:31   - Yeah.

00:01:31   - I'm using Yosemite and it's making me really upset.

00:01:34   - Uh-oh.

00:01:35   - Maybe we can talk about that a little later.

00:01:36   - Yeah, maybe so.

00:01:38   I've been using it for a while now

00:01:39   and there was a period in there in the betas

00:01:42   where I was unable to do most things relating to audio,

00:01:46   which is a problem for, you know, podcasting.

00:01:48   (laughing)

00:01:49   But it's been pretty good lately.

00:01:52   That was when I ended up using that DeMarco method

00:01:54   that I wrote about where I ended up doing all my live streaming from an external box

00:01:57   via my iPad because...

00:01:59   Oh, that was why! I thought you were just being fancy.

00:02:01   Yeah, I didn't want to throw a beta of Yosemite under the bus, but Nicecast stopped working

00:02:08   for a while. It was weird and choppy and all of that, and so I just gave up. And, you know,

00:02:15   eliminating software from the equation, or at least your Mac software, can be good for

00:02:19   things involving audio sometimes. But I've been using Yosemite fine lately.

00:02:24   The machine that I'm currently talking to you on is still running Snow Leopard.

00:02:27   Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:02:30   We had one of those at IDG for a long time that was, I think, I mean I assume it's still

00:02:34   there, it still had a Snow Leopard on a partition.

00:02:36   There were certain things in sound related that we could not do if we went to even Lion.

00:02:43   I'm just scared.

00:02:45   No I'm on Lion, sorry I'm on Lion.

00:02:47   Oh okay.

00:02:48   What's wrong with you then?

00:02:49   I'm only on Lion because of Logic Pro X, otherwise I'd still be on like Leopard or

00:02:53   something. I just don't like to touch this machine in any way where I don't have to.

00:03:00   Yeah well I get it. That's why so many things at XOXO somebody recommended an audio plugin

00:03:07   for a voice from oh I can't remember the name now. The name of the plugins Renaissance Vox.

00:03:12   It's from what's the name of the company? Waves I think. And you know you can download

00:03:20   a demo, but not if you're running Yosemite, because they're one of those companies that

00:03:24   like they'll qualify all of their products for the new OS like by the time the next OS

00:03:28   comes out because they're careful and I, you know, it annoys those of us on the on the

00:03:32   cutting edge. But, you know, I understand why they're careful about that stuff.

00:03:38   Do we have some follow up?

00:03:41   Myke, of course we have. The day I know I don't want to say that I was gonna say the

00:03:47   The day we don't have follow-up is the day that this show ends.

00:03:50   You just make it up.

00:03:52   But I would, indeed, I would say, "Let me follow up with people who are emailing me

00:03:56   about other unrelated things.

00:03:57   Let's just read some emails that I got."

00:03:59   Like, "Jason, you may have already won."

00:04:01   Oh, Target sent me some vouchers today.

00:04:04   That's good.

00:04:05   Yeah.

00:04:06   Yeah, there's a house down the block that's for sale.

00:04:09   We could go look at it on Sunday.

00:04:12   Follow-up.

00:04:13   Listener.

00:04:14   So we talked last week about jet lag a little bit.

00:04:17   And listener Manuel wrote in to say

00:04:20   that he uses the exact same technique that I mentioned,

00:04:22   which is, you know, whenever you get to your destination,

00:04:25   you stay up until it's nighttime.

00:04:26   I stay as late as you can until you reach,

00:04:29   ideally you reach bedtime in wherever you are,

00:04:32   or at least as close to it as you can manage

00:04:34   before you pass out.

00:04:35   And he said, it works great.

00:04:37   But then he goes on to say,

00:04:38   I'm afraid it might change when I get older.

00:04:40   I'm 25.

00:04:41   did you handle jet lag better before?

00:04:44   Better before, before what Manuel?

00:04:47   Before I became an old man of 44 years old?

00:04:51   Yes, let me tell you back in the day,

00:04:52   are you calling me old Manuel?

00:04:55   Is that what you're insinuating here?

00:04:57   - When I was 25, we didn't have planes.

00:04:59   - Well, to be honest, when I was in my 20s,

00:05:03   I didn't travel anywhere requiring

00:05:05   any notable amount of jet lag.

00:05:07   I didn't leave the continent of North America,

00:05:10   guess Hawaii accepted until I was just about to turn 30. So I can't tell you how amazing

00:05:20   a jet lag fighter I was. I haven't noticed any difference. I feel like this isn't something

00:05:25   that's related to age but you know maybe old people, truly ancient old wizened people have

00:05:31   problems with jet lag. I don't know. I'm not one of those. That's what I'm saying. Or maybe

00:05:35   Maybe you only just get 25 years of your life in which you can experience jet lag.

00:05:39   Interesting.

00:05:40   So you have until you're 55 and then you can't fly anymore.

00:05:45   That's possible.

00:05:46   Or you can fly but you have to book an extra day to just process your jet lag before you

00:05:52   can move about, go about your business.

00:05:54   I don't know.

00:05:55   When we went, on my first international trip my wife and I went to your place, to the UK,

00:06:02   And I remember we flew overnight and we got into Heathrow at like 6am and it's really

00:06:06   hard to do the stay up until night when you haven't slept all day and now it's daytime

00:06:11   again and it's the start of it.

00:06:13   And I remember we took the bus from London to Bath and we started in Bath and the whole

00:06:17   bus ride.

00:06:19   I just have memories of all of those towns that are between London and Bath just through

00:06:24   the haze of like falling asleep and then waking up and falling just nodding off.

00:06:28   Oh that horrible like head full sound.

00:06:31   And I passed out and woke up and we were in Swindon and I went okay and then I passed

00:06:35   out again.

00:06:36   Yeah.

00:06:37   It's a long bus ride.

00:06:40   It is but it was good because the idea there is you start outside of London and you wrap

00:06:44   up in London and then you're not jet lagged anymore when you're back in the city and can

00:06:48   take advantage of being in London which I actually thought was a really good strategy.

00:06:53   There's a guy, Rick Steves, who writes travel books for Americans to go to Europe and that

00:06:58   was his recommendation and we basically followed his like 10 day UK trip plan and it worked

00:07:04   pretty well and that was our first big international trip that we took together. But yeah we did

00:07:09   I think we slept for an hour like in the middle of the day just because we were going to pass

00:07:13   out and then after that even though we were kind of loopy we stayed awake until night

00:07:17   time and I don't know but we were only you know 29 and 28 at that point Manuel so is

00:07:22   that old? You tell me. I don't know.

00:07:26   The best tour of England in 14 days by Rick Steves.

00:07:29   There's a picture of Bath right on the top.

00:07:32   There's good, I mean we did, I think ours was 10, but we went to the Cotswolds and the

00:07:37   Lake District and York and Yorkshire and Edinburgh, all the way up to Edinburgh and then took

00:07:42   the train back to London and spent three days in London.

00:07:44   It was pretty awesome.

00:07:45   You got a nice country there Myke.

00:07:47   Yeah we're pretty lucky.

00:07:48   And it's still together, hooray!

00:07:50   Yeah, that's right.

00:07:52   I didn't need a passport check going into Edinburgh and you still don't.

00:07:57   Lister Thomas by the way, also he is of the opinion that it's coming home is always easier.

00:08:03   And I suppose that's true in some way.

00:08:04   I'm not sure I buy it jet lag wise.

00:08:07   I think flying west is generally better than flying east.

00:08:10   And when I've gone to Hawaii I have not felt the jet lag going to Hawaii and coming home

00:08:15   from Hawaii I have felt the jet lag.

00:08:17   So I'm kind of buying the it's easier to go west than east.

00:08:21   Yeah I disagree with Thomas as well. It's always easier for me to go to the States than

00:08:25   to come home.

00:08:26   Yeah, see? There you go. We solved it. Sorry Thomas.

00:08:29   Welcome to Jetlag Talk with Jason.

00:08:32   I know. I feel like the first five minutes of every episode is going to be some other

00:08:35   podcast that just dropped in that we are going to do one episode of and then it's only five

00:08:41   minutes long and then we're done.

00:08:43   This is how we serve the verticals, Jason.

00:08:45   Yeah that's right. It's the vertical podcast. We should have called it that. It's just five

00:08:48   minutes of obscurity followed by five minutes of a completely different kind of obscurity

00:08:52   followed by follow-up. So last week also we talked we had a little pre-show bit which

00:08:59   was literally our pre-show conversation that you stuck in which was great where we were

00:09:04   talking about ringtones and alarm clocks and using podcast theme songs as alarm tones and

00:09:12   your feelings about that sound that wakes you up at five in the morning and I played

00:09:16   xylophone which is the sound that somebody pointed out is actually a marimba not a xylophone

00:09:22   which may actually be true but it's called xylophone whatever instrument demon instrument

00:09:27   makes it.

00:09:28   Don't they have a marimba?

00:09:30   There is a marimba called marimba.

00:09:32   So maybe they just said marimba one and marimba two.

00:09:34   Exactly and so they felt it was xylophone even if it wasn't a xylophone.

00:09:38   Anyway the point is I'm not the only one who uses xylophone as their alarm sound and I

00:09:43   I heard from several people who heard me play xylophone on the pre-show last week and freaked

00:09:49   out because like me, that is a bad sound.

00:09:53   And then some other people shared other awful sounds that basically I think our thesis was

00:09:58   proven correct which is that noise you use to wake yourself up, you grow to hate that

00:10:02   noise and so don't put anything you like in that as your alarm clock sound.

00:10:09   Ever.

00:10:10   Ever.

00:10:11   So that was "We Learned Something." Listener Patrick wrote in following up about what we

00:10:18   were talking about a few weeks ago about streaming services and how Netflix tends to have TV

00:10:24   shows and movies just vanish one day. And we said that that didn't really happen so

00:10:28   much with music. This is probably the exception that proves the rule, but he said that there's

00:10:33   a well-known rapper in Germany who removed all of his albums from streaming services

00:10:38   one day as some sort of a protest about the

00:10:42   probably the economics of streaming services so it can happen like I said I

00:10:46   think it's

00:10:47   less common but it can happen that even your favorite music can disappear

00:10:52   from your services. This was a popular rapper, not David Hasselhoff by the way.

00:10:58   Talking about music and streaming services, interesting fact that came out today.

00:11:03   In the US there's only been one album that has sold over one million copies this year

00:11:08   and that's Disney's Frozen soundtrack. So potentially this year no artist will go platinum.

00:11:15   It's definitely streaming services that's causing that in my opinion.

00:11:19   I think you're right.

00:11:20   It's a pretty interesting fact though, right? 2014 could be the year of the last platinum

00:11:25   album.

00:11:27   Could be. Well, I mean U2 doesn't count because they cheated.

00:11:32   And they wouldn't have got it.

00:11:34   Well no, because Apple bought a billion copies to give away, right?

00:11:39   But they're not allowed to do that.

00:11:40   While we were talking about streaming, we also talked about Netflix and being spoiled.

00:11:44   Both of us talked about being spoiled about House of Cards, and listener Brian wrote in

00:11:49   with a link to where he got spoiled, which was ironically enough.

00:11:52   Netflix has a funny little site that people should check out if they want a little chuckle,

00:11:57   which is Spoilers.Netflix.com, which is like an interactive quiz about are you a terrible

00:12:01   person who spoils things and apparently it will also spoil you about things. So thanks

00:12:08   Brian for sending that in. That made me laugh. Listener Kyle, Kyle the Grey and listener

00:12:16   Joe Steele.

00:12:18   Like a superhero team.

00:12:21   Kyle the Grey and Joe Steele. Oh yeah, you can't. When their powers merge and they form

00:12:26   gray steel which is like a giant robot and it's steel always gray? It might be kind of

00:12:33   a redundant name but it doesn't matter. Gray steel, amazing superhero, occasionally Kyle

00:12:40   the Grey and Joe Steele. Anyway, superhero talk with Jason and Myke, here we are. Imaginary

00:12:46   superheroes we've known. Anyway, they both just send in some nice feedback when we were

00:12:50   talking about conferences and WWDC and Singleton and OOL, just about how much they, even though

00:12:56   I know Kyle described himself as totally not an app developer, but still love going to

00:13:02   WWDC because they meant so many people.

00:13:04   Joe said, "I think we're groupies to that."

00:13:06   And I would say that what you call that is a community.

00:13:13   This is the sign that there is a real community with real people who like to meet each other

00:13:17   and talk and have a good time.

00:13:19   And I think that's a really healthy thing that people have an emotional attachment to

00:13:25   this community and want to be a part of it. And when things like Mac World Expo are going

00:13:30   away these little conferences and WWDC, even if you're not a practicing programming developer,

00:13:38   are places for community. And so I thought that was really good feedback. And it's totally

00:13:42   true. I mean, when you and I both go to WWDC, we see so many people there. It's just an

00:13:48   amazing experience.

00:13:49   Just fun.

00:13:50   Yeah. Yeah. Even if you don't sit in a room in Moscone and learn about the latest APIs,

00:13:56   that's kind of, for people like us, it's kind of beside the point.

00:14:00   Never written a line of code, not one. Nope. I've got some terrible Apple script.

00:14:04   I don't think that counts. And basic. 10 print hello 20 go to 10. I was really good at that.

00:14:09   At least you've done some web stuff. Mm-hmm. That's true. I wouldn't call that programming

00:14:15   know nobody knows yeah that's just web pages isn't programming it's just web pages.

00:14:23   Well that will be for next week's show.

00:14:26   Well no I mean like JavaScript is programming if you use JavaScript in your in your in your

00:14:30   web pages it's scripting or programming I would say but I'm terrible at JavaScript but

00:14:34   like HTML and CSS I don't know that's something that feels different to me.

00:14:38   Listener Oz I wanted to say great name had a suggestion following up on our successful

00:14:44   hunt for a euphemism for the thing that you say to she who shall not be named to activate

00:14:49   her, suggested that we go, somebody should go into an Apple store and then shout "Ahoy

00:14:55   telephone!" or perhaps, that's the code, shout the actual thing and see what happens.

00:15:02   So you pranksters, yeah don't shout "Ahoy telephone!" people will, you'll be ushered

00:15:08   out if that happens, but if you shout the thing that we're using "Ahoy telephone" as

00:15:12   code for, what will happen? Has Apple shut that feature off or will a million iPhones

00:15:18   and iPads appear and start talking to you? They are all plugged in. Right, but they may

00:15:27   have that Ahoy telephone feature turned off. Lots of people do lots of really weird things

00:15:34   in Apple stores anyway, like all the dancing videos and such. That's true, they may be

00:15:39   used to it. It's just another viral video. Somebody shouting ahoy telephone. Whatever.

00:15:43   Waiting to happen. Yeah. And that's all the follow up, Myke.

00:15:47   Right, let's take a moment to talk about our friends, Jason.

00:15:51   Ah, good. Our friends at Hover.

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00:18:16   Thank you to Hover for sponsoring this episode

00:18:19   and for supporting Relay FM.

00:18:22   I was really kind of going for it with the iPad Mega.

00:18:24   - What is the iPad Mega, Myke?

00:18:25   - It was when I was giving the codes to Hover

00:18:30   for this week's shows last week.

00:18:33   It was in my hope that there would be a bigger iPad

00:18:36   as an interesting thing to talk about

00:18:37   and I went with iPad Mega, but no.

00:18:41   Alas, iPad Mega we did not receive.

00:18:45   So Apple Event.

00:18:46   - Yeah, how long ago was that now?

00:18:49   It feels like forever ago.

00:18:50   It was like five days ago.

00:18:51   - That is basically forever.

00:18:53   - Four days ago maybe.

00:18:55   I don't know.

00:18:56   Yeah, Apple Event, I was there.

00:18:57   It felt like I was in the afterlife.

00:19:02   - Yeah, 'cause it's like a new beginnings for Jason Snell.

00:19:07   - I went to the last one knowing it was my last event

00:19:10   for Mac world and it was all like, drink it in.

00:19:13   I'm gonna, you know, am I gonna see any of these people again?

00:19:16   I thought, yeah, maybe, but you never know.

00:19:18   And I was like, all right, I'm gonna just appreciate this.

00:19:19   This is the last one.

00:19:21   And honestly, for the last year,

00:19:22   every time I go to one of these, I've been thinking,

00:19:24   is this the last one?

00:19:25   Because I've been thinking of leaving.

00:19:27   And, but I knew that last one.

00:19:29   So now I'm at, a month later, I'm at another Apple event

00:19:32   and it's not all the same people

00:19:33   'cause it's a much smaller group,

00:19:34   but it's like, you know, the usual suspects are all there

00:19:36   and I'm there.

00:19:38   And that was weird because it did,

00:19:40   it felt a little bit like all these changes have happened

00:19:44   in my life and now I'm here with these people again,

00:19:47   but I have this new role and I'm with my own thing.

00:19:50   And like I said, somebody at Apple referred to me

00:19:53   a few weeks ago in an email as like a independent

00:19:56   thought leader or an independent media something.

00:19:58   I was like, okay, is that what I am now?

00:20:01   What's my role?

00:20:02   So-- - Thanks for defining me.

00:20:04   - And I always used to pick up Dan Morin at the BART station

00:20:08   on my way down to Cupertino and we'd ride down together

00:20:12   'cause he'd stay in a hotel down in San Francisco

00:20:14   and you know, Dan wasn't out, he was watching.

00:20:16   So first Apple event he's missed since the iPhone launch,

00:20:20   the original iPhone launch, which he missed

00:20:22   'cause we made him go to CES instead.

00:20:24   (laughing)

00:20:25   Poor guy, poor guy.

00:20:27   I know, I'm surprised he doesn't hate me for that.

00:20:31   He's got other reasons I suppose to hate me

00:20:33   but that would be enough.

00:20:34   That would be sufficient. - That would be high up.

00:20:35   And so he wasn't out.

00:20:38   But at Singleton, I was talking to Gruber.

00:20:41   And he said, you know, you're not--

00:20:45   basically, it was like, you're not

00:20:46   going through downtown on your way to Cupertino or something.

00:20:49   Because he stays downtown at a hotel in downtown San Francisco.

00:20:53   And I said, well, I always had Dan just pop over on the BART.

00:20:57   It's like a 10-minute ride on the train.

00:20:59   And then I pick him up.

00:21:00   And so I was--

00:21:01   in addition to being an independent thought leader

00:21:04   or whatever I am, I am also John Gruber's driver.

00:21:07   - Well, so now you've gone from, you know,

00:21:09   picking up your colleague to like to picking up,

00:21:13   you know, just like your industry buddy.

00:21:16   - Yeah, yeah.

00:21:17   No, it was fun and it was a good conversation.

00:21:19   We started, it was very much like an episode of the talk show

00:21:21   we started talking about baseball

00:21:23   and then we moved on to Apple analysis.

00:21:25   And at several points, I thought to myself,

00:21:27   it's really a shame that we're not recording this

00:21:29   'cause this is a podcast happening

00:21:32   or two halves of a podcast happening to and from,

00:21:34   'cause I drove him back in that car.

00:21:37   But yeah, so-

00:21:37   - Podcasts using cars going to Apple events.

00:21:40   - Yeah, so it was so much like it used to be

00:21:44   at these events, except it was different.

00:21:46   You know, the people were a little different

00:21:47   and Dan Frakes was there

00:21:49   and we almost never sent him from Macworld.

00:21:52   And yet now leaving Macworld,

00:21:54   he finally gets to go to an Apple event.

00:21:57   And so I got to see him and I got to see my usual,

00:22:00   you know, people and Susie from Macworld was there.

00:22:02   So I got to say hi to her and give her a high five

00:22:04   'cause she's working really hard

00:22:06   to keep Mac World up and running.

00:22:08   And yeah, it was, so it was weird.

00:22:12   It was weird being there.

00:22:13   And then, you know, it wasn't the usual thing

00:22:15   'cause we went through R&D one,

00:22:17   which is the main entrance right next to the company store,

00:22:21   the main entrance, which is not where you usually go

00:22:24   for these town hall events.

00:22:25   In the past, you would drive around

00:22:27   the backside of the loop, park behind the whole,

00:22:32   loop structure and then walk over to R&D, I don't know, 4?

00:22:37   And that's where the town hall is and they basically check you in right there

00:22:41   and there'd be this little narrow room that you would hang out in and maybe there was some like

00:22:45   coffee on the side or something and then later they had like an upstairs that was still crowded

00:22:50   but they had some food up there and they didn't do that this time. This time they had us go through the main entrance

00:22:54   It's like the third time I've ever been through the main doors at R&D, you know at one infinite loop

00:22:59   So that was kind of cool. And then they had like Apple, I think they were retail people,

00:23:05   stationed the entire walkway through the center of the campus leading over to the cafeteria

00:23:11   and to where the town hall is. Like, you know, essentially as security, they were helpful

00:23:15   people who were there so that you didn't like run off course and go somewhere else at Apple

00:23:20   that you weren't supposed to be at. But they were with a smile. And so they did, we walked

00:23:27   through the center of campus and then over to this little corner behind the building

00:23:33   where the town hall area is and that was our waiting area. So it was really nice. You can

00:23:39   tell that with Katie Cotton having left that whoever is doing -- because events were her

00:23:43   bag -- and with her gone, whoever's doing the events now is rethinking everything they

00:23:48   do even down to the -- I realize this is inside baseball -- but like where the journalists

00:23:54   and VIPs come in and where you put them before you load up the building. Once we got in there,

00:24:01   it was town hall, it was the usual tiny, crowded, really small space kind of thing, but it's

00:24:08   fascinating to see just even for little stuff like that, that it's just not the same as

00:24:12   it was a year ago and it had been that same playbook for years before that.

00:24:17   Do you find it a better experience now?

00:24:21   Well, I mean, they're taking better care of us. I don't know if anybody else cares about

00:24:27   that, but the fact that they're using their own catering to feed us beforehand and stuff,

00:24:31   and instead of us just sort of standing in a huddle for an hour waiting to go in, it

00:24:37   was a little more conversational. But the actual event, they redid Town Hall, I think,

00:24:43   to increase the capacity, and also they put power at every seat, but the result is that

00:24:49   like a really crowded college lecture hall or something, and it's really cramped. So

00:24:56   it's not really that comfortable. There's very little leg room. It's a tight fit. But

00:25:00   you know, again, we're at an Apple event. It's not really about us. That's all inside

00:25:05   baseball stuff. But they've made changes. It's interesting.

00:25:09   This was a grab bag, too. I mean, to talk about the actual event, this was a grab bag.

00:25:13   When they sent out those invitations that said, "It's been too long," I think in hindsight

00:25:18   we can very clearly say they're just making a joke about how they did a big event a month

00:25:22   ago and it's literally like here's what was left over.

00:25:27   Let's get this all, we got a bunch of other stuff.

00:25:30   Even the intro at the beginning of the event was like Tim Cook saying, "Hey, we got a bunch

00:25:34   of stuff that we want to get out before the end of the year."

00:25:36   So here it is.

00:25:39   I find it interesting that they used the coloured logo, like the thin-lined coloured logo.

00:25:46   Yeah, who knows? They're doing all sorts of crazy stuff. I don't know. It's interesting.

00:25:59   I was happy to be there, quite honestly. Number one in my mind was, "I'm glad I got invited

00:26:04   to this." I kind of expected that I would not if I had to pick, but I was very happy

00:26:12   to be asked to go. Then Jon got a ride.

00:26:15   How was it like live blogging?

00:26:18   You went with Twitter in the end, right?

00:26:20   Yeah, we did Twitter.

00:26:21   We talked about that last week, what we were going to do, and I decided rather than go

00:26:24   with the weird kind of open source, free, hosted, we don't know how they make their

00:26:30   money kind of platform, which could also have gotten crashed immediately or does it do weird

00:26:34   things, insert ads, I don't know.

00:26:37   We just decided to do a Twitter embed, so we put a Twitter embed on the Six Colors website

00:26:42   and then I created an account that's at Six Colors event

00:26:45   and then Dan Morin and I tweeted from there during the event

00:26:51   me in the building and Dan doing some jokes

00:26:54   and color commentary and things from his place

00:26:57   back in Massachusetts and it worked fine.

00:26:59   - I enjoyed it a lot actually.

00:27:01   I thought it was quite funny,

00:27:02   especially when you two were arguing.

00:27:04   (laughing)

00:27:05   About things, I enjoyed it, it was funny.

00:27:07   - Yeah, it worked okay and I think the tweet length

00:27:11   fine for that and we didn't want to, especially when it's already being live streamed, you're

00:27:16   really at hitting the highlights and doing some commentary and not trying to provide

00:27:21   a transcript of what everybody's about. You know, we were 30 seconds or a minute ahead,

00:27:25   so it's like a transcript of what you're about to hear is sort of pointless. So it was, I

00:27:30   was happy with it. I think we'll do it again like that. That was a compromise between doing

00:27:34   the grouper thing of sitting there with your pencil and just pondering and doing the full

00:27:39   out like crazy frantic typing. I mean I took some pictures too but again I didn't feel

00:27:45   like the need to document every last thing that happened on stage. I just took some pictures

00:27:52   for illustration and dragged them into the Twitter client and posted them and that was

00:27:57   nice too. That worked out pretty well. And then I put, I saved those, I shared those

00:28:01   out so our buddy Mr. Teachy used them on Mac Stories which was nice too.

00:28:08   Teach.

00:28:09   Teach.

00:28:10   Oh, buddy teach.

00:28:11   Federico Viticci, I'll just say that, and I also want to apologize to Federico for my

00:28:13   terrible impression of him on the last show.

00:28:18   It was terrible.

00:28:19   I apologize to all of Italy, but it was a much better impression if you could see my

00:28:23   hand gestures.

00:28:25   Those were good.

00:28:26   Anyway.

00:28:27   A lot of people said that the event was boring.

00:28:33   What was your impression being there?

00:28:34   It's a lot less boring when you're frantically typing and taking pictures and uploading them

00:28:38   and things. It's a lot less boring than... It's really hard. It's just like people talk

00:28:43   about the little finger thing with Tim and Bono. We didn't even see that. We were in

00:28:49   the back row. There were people standing up in front of us. So your perspective when you're

00:28:54   there versus watching it as a show on your computer or on your TV or something is totally

00:28:59   different. So covering it, I get it because the first half hour, I mean Dan and I both

00:29:05   said this in the live blog, the first half hour was like things that everybody already

00:29:09   knows.

00:29:10   And literally, if you follow this stuff closely, that part was totally boring, because Apple

00:29:17   was doing that because Apple wanted to set the stage.

00:29:20   Something I learned writing about OS X actually over the years is that we would write these

00:29:26   stories about OS X when it was announced at WWDC and it would be like, "Everything you

00:29:30   need to know about OS X 10.3 or whatever."

00:29:34   And then months would pass and the OS would be about ready to come out and you'd think

00:29:38   "Boy, this is all old news" and people would be like "Hey, there's a new version of OS

00:29:42   10, what should I know about it?"

00:29:44   Like literally there is the universe of people who care so much that they knew it the moment

00:29:52   that it was announced at WWDC.

00:29:54   And then there's this whole other universe of people who don't care until it pops up

00:29:59   on their computer saying there's an update to Yosemite.

00:30:03   At that moment they're like, "Oh, Yosemite, what is this?

00:30:06   Tell me more."

00:30:07   I feel like that 30 minutes of this Apple event, it was for those people and for the

00:30:12   press who reached those people.

00:30:15   It's for the more casual users of Apple products.

00:30:21   You can't announce an OS in June, detail all of its features, and then when October comes

00:30:28   around just release it and not say anything.

00:30:31   We already said everything that there is to say about this, so here it is.

00:30:34   You remember that thing from months ago?

00:30:36   Here it is.

00:30:37   So you got to tell that story.

00:30:39   But if the people already know the story, it's really boring.

00:30:42   And that was the deal.

00:30:44   It was like continuity.

00:30:46   We've seen that before.

00:30:47   You know, Yosemite, we've seen that before.

00:30:49   But they needed to do it because, or at least I understand why they feel the need to do

00:30:55   it because not everybody is paying attention to what happened at WWDC.

00:31:00   for those of us who were, yeah, it was a repeat.

00:31:04   I mean, that's what Dan said, I think, in our Twitter thing,

00:31:05   was, "I think this is a repeat."

00:31:07   Like, I was waiting--

00:31:09   - I've seen this one.

00:31:10   - Yeah, is Steve Jobs in this one?

00:31:11   I think I've seen this one before.

00:31:13   And it was a little bit like that for the first,

00:31:15   yeah, first half hour, 40 minutes, certainly,

00:31:16   there was like no news at all.

00:31:18   - It's tough to watch, but I get why they do it.

00:31:22   This is their time where they are able to talk about

00:31:25   all the things they want people in the world to know about.

00:31:28   So if they've got some stuff that they wanna say

00:31:30   about OS X or they just want to show OS X again, then show it. You know, you could tell

00:31:35   that they were aware of that because they tried to make the whole thing humorous.

00:31:39   Comedy, yeah, entertaining. I actually liked the extent, even though it was an extended

00:31:45   comedy bit and I know people don't like that or some people don't like that, I actually

00:31:49   thought the Colbert thing was fine, but what I liked about it was that it was trying to

00:31:54   throw a whole lot of continuity context at you in a way where you almost like don't...

00:32:02   it wasn't like, "and now I'm going to do this, see this feature, and now I'm going to do..."

00:32:06   it felt a little more natural, it wasn't natural, but it felt like they did a whole bunch of

00:32:11   things.

00:32:12   They did a whole bunch of things that were all continuity without it being like, "let

00:32:16   me list, let me show you the five things you can do with continuity."

00:32:19   It was more like, here's a story where continuity is useful.

00:32:23   And you know, yeah.

00:32:25   I mean, so they tried to make it different

00:32:26   and they tried to make it funny.

00:32:27   And I liked the Colbert bits.

00:32:28   I thought that was kind of amusing.

00:32:30   And I like Apple poking fun at itself,

00:32:33   the doubling down on secrecy jokes

00:32:35   and the flying campus spaceship thing.

00:32:40   That was, I thought that was fine

00:32:41   because that is, you get away with a little bit more

00:32:45   if you're poking fun at yourself,

00:32:46   which is what they were doing.

00:32:48   The Colbert bit was actually the bit that I found the least entertaining.

00:32:53   I think that there might be an element of just like, "I don't really know much about

00:32:59   him."

00:33:00   So I think that there's a lot of carryover.

00:33:03   I saw a lot of people say they felt like it was a very US-centric show too.

00:33:07   These are jokes that make sense to all the Americans who work at Apple.

00:33:14   if they're not Americans they're living in the US and maybe outside of the US it didn't

00:33:20   play quite as well. Because Stephen Colbert is like, he's someone I know because people

00:33:24   tweet about him. You know like if I can't watch anything from his show because comedy

00:33:29   is he on Comedy Central or is it somebody else? Yeah he's on right after Jon Stewart

00:33:33   although he's going to be David Letterman's replacement at CBS. Oh yes I remember that.

00:33:38   Yeah like any links to the clips are just banned and it's like you should go to a different

00:33:44   country!" and I was like "Mmm, okay, thank you."

00:33:46   I was trying to tell you something, Myke. I think so. But I enjoyed the handshake video,

00:33:52   I thought that was quite funny. It's an interesting move, it's very different. I

00:33:57   can see why they do it. I think we just need a little bit more time for it

00:34:02   to bed in and I think Apple need to get used to the amount of comedy that they

00:34:06   want. I think that the WWDC presentation, Craig's WWDC presentation,

00:34:12   I think that was just the right amount of comedy.

00:34:15   I think there was maybe a little bit too much this time, but I can see why they did it because

00:34:20   they know they had to reshoot all this stuff so let's turn it into a fun keynote presentation

00:34:24   instead.

00:34:25   WWDC was like jokes in the presentation and this was like skits in the presentation.

00:34:32   Let's stop the presentation to do a bit instead of Federici just having funny examples as

00:34:39   he went through it which is more of what it was at WWDC.

00:34:42   But I get it, I think this is all part of the same thing, which is this was a repeat,

00:34:46   they knew it was a repeat, they tried to make it a little bit more palatable by coding it

00:34:51   in zaniness.

00:34:53   But yeah, it was a repeat.

00:34:55   Until they got to the hardware, there was nothing new here.

00:34:59   I mean a lot of that to be fair is pretty much a repeat as well.

00:35:02   Yeah, well that's true, but at least there were tidbits there in a way that there were

00:35:06   not with the...

00:35:08   the, yeah well you know you get everything spoiled in advance and yeah I mean everybody,

00:35:17   if you're watching a live Apple event waiting for that one moment of the thing that just

00:35:21   didn't leak and was totally rumor free and it's going to blow your mind, I feel like

00:35:24   you're never going to be satisfied because that's just not, that didn't happen anymore.

00:35:31   You get it once every couple of years and we had ours last month, you know, the iWatch.

00:35:34   Yeah, even then a lot of the details leaked, but there were a lot that didn't leak.

00:35:40   But that's a rare occurrence for a brand new product.

00:35:44   Or it's something that's a surprise, like when they did whatever that was, Mountain

00:35:47   Lion, where it was just out of the blue and nobody realized it was going to happen.

00:35:52   But that's so rare.

00:35:53   Yeah, yeah, software's easier to do though, isn't it, I guess.

00:35:56   Yeah, if it's inside Cupertino, they can keep a lid on it.

00:36:00   AF Waller in the chat room pointing out Swift.

00:36:03   I was sitting right next to Syracuse when they announced that.

00:36:06   That was a beautiful thing.

00:36:08   But yeah, if it's in Cupertino and doesn't require partners, bring in third party developers

00:36:17   to try out this new thing.

00:36:19   The more lockdown it is in Cupertino, the more likely it is to not leak, because they're

00:36:22   pretty good about that stuff.

00:36:25   Let's talk about the real darling of the show, the Mac Mini.

00:36:28   Yes, they spent at least like 30 seconds on the Mac Mini.

00:36:32   It got more time than the iPad mini.

00:36:34   Almost as much time as the iPad mini 2, 3?

00:36:42   That's just depressing.

00:36:43   Mac mini got updated.

00:36:44   Lots of people, it's been two years, people were really excited that Mac mini got updated.

00:36:48   I saw it on the slide and it's like, "Hey, Mac mini also getting updated today with no

00:36:53   information."

00:36:54   I didn't expect information.

00:36:55   about the Mac mini, you know, don't it getting its existence being acknowledged on stage

00:37:03   in an Apple event is like, that's the checkbox. That's like, I can't believe they admitted

00:37:09   that they make this thing because they're not going to talk about it proudly. That's

00:37:13   never going to happen. Uh, just admit that it exists and give us an update. And so I

00:37:19   was pretty excited, um, by the, that it got an update cause it's been two years and I

00:37:24   was in marker for one. The fact that it wasn't just a quiet refresh, that's a good thing,

00:37:31   at least. Yeah, then I found the specs out and I was not as excited anymore. Why? Well,

00:37:39   a couple things. One, and listener Brian actually, this is not follow up quite, but listener

00:37:46   feedback nonetheless, listener Brian pointed out that it's essentially the same process

00:37:50   that's in that sad cheap iMac that they rolled out last year that's like the

00:37:53   lowest of the low iMacs where Macworld did a bunch of testing about it and

00:37:58   basically said you could buy this but why? It's like it's already it's already

00:38:04   slow and for $150 more or something you could get one that's modern and instead

00:38:09   it's this old processor. Well that's the bottom of the Mac mini line now and it's

00:38:12   the same thing if you try to configure it it won't let you upgrade the

00:38:15   processor you gotta go the $499 is like with that low low low priced iMac it's

00:38:21   to get you in the door but it has no options like if you want I think you can

00:38:26   upgrade the RAM but that's it if you want anything better you need to move up

00:38:31   out of the $499 model to one of the higher-end models so that's that's kind

00:38:36   of sad but the really super sad thing is that they used to make surprisingly

00:38:41   high-end Mac Minis at the high end of the configuration tree you could do a

00:38:46   quad-core processor and like like on the iMacs and you can't now. The Mac Mini is

00:38:52   a dual core only machine and as somebody who is looking at getting a Mac Mini

00:38:56   because my dual core MacBook Air is just not quite fast enough for doing some

00:39:01   video stuff and video streaming which I'd like to do more of for for the

00:39:05   incomparable like for our D&D podcast I was looking at that quad-core Mini. Well

00:39:10   the quad core mini is gone. It's gone. If you want quad core, you want more than two

00:39:14   cores in a desktop, you need the iMac or the Mac Pro at this point. The Mac mini is, so

00:39:22   it's become a lower end product than it used to be. And the server configuration is gone

00:39:27   too. They used to have this high end two, two terabyte drive. It was the only more than

00:39:32   one terabyte drive configuration in Apple's product line for any product and it's gone.

00:39:38   not selling that anymore. So the Mac Mini has sort of been redefined down, I think.

00:39:44   I think I might get one. And that sounds crazy after you've said all of that.

00:39:50   Yeah, you crazy guy. So what would make you want to get one?

00:39:53   So I want to upgrade the production machine. Good word, upgrade. I like it.

00:39:58   Thank you. I like it too. Because I'm using a Mac Mini at the moment, and it's got a spinning

00:40:04   disk. And I don't want an iMac for a silly reason, but a reason that's

00:40:12   important to me. I just want dedicated audio in and audio out. The iMac

00:40:18   doesn't have that. My only two options then are the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro.

00:40:21   And I don't need a Mac, I just don't need a Mac Pro. Quite simply I don't need one.

00:40:26   So I can upgrade the Mac Mini and I can do it for about, I mean I know they're not comparable, but

00:40:35   I can do it for about a thousand pounds cheaper than buying the iMac Retina and that's with 16

00:40:42   gigabytes of RAM maxed out processor and 512 megabytes of solid state. So that will be more

00:40:52   than enough in power for the podcasting stuff. Sure. So I'm thinking about

00:40:57   thinking about going that route in the not too distant future. I think

00:41:01   that's perfectly sensible. I just am so sad that they're not letting you

00:41:05   configure that with the quad core. It is frustrating. Because that's just I mean

00:41:11   again it was there and now it's gone. It's like they had that quad core, you

00:41:15   could get it in dual core, it was default dual core but you could go up to the

00:41:18   quad core if you wanted to and they've just decided you know they're not going

00:41:23   to do that that this is this is one of those areas where Apple has withholding

00:41:26   features because they basically are saying if you want that you need to pay

00:41:29   us more money but Mac Mini is such a different product than the iMac and the

00:41:33   Mac Pro as you pointed out that it's it's kind of a shame that that it's just

00:41:37   not an option. It is a shame because the retina which we're going to talk about

00:41:42   in a minute is priced very well here. It's like 2,000 pounds? 2,000 pounds

00:41:48   which is very surprising for it to be less than the US dollar amount, you know,

00:41:53   like for it not to be £2,500. That is an incredible amount of machine for

00:42:00   that money. But it's... Look, I know that there are little dongles you can get

00:42:07   that you can plug in that will split the audio in and out. I just don't... I just

00:42:11   want it. I just want a dedicated audio in and audio out. It's always good for backup,

00:42:15   I think the more audio related ports I can have considering what I do the better I feel

00:42:21   We'll see

00:42:24   We'll see

00:42:25   Yeah

00:42:27   So should we should we take a break for our second sponsor and then talk about iPads and then the retina?

00:42:32   I'm a bit more. I think that's a good idea. I hope this next sponsor is also a friend and not an enemy

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00:45:08   on their website so you can read all about this if you want to. But you can trust Smile.

00:45:13   As Jason said, even in a dark alley you can trust them.

00:45:16   Go ahead and go right now to the App Store and grab the new TextExpander Touch 3 and

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00:45:34   episode of Upgrade and Relay FM.

00:45:40   So iPads.

00:45:41   iPads.

00:45:42   There are a lot of iPads now.

00:45:46   There are a shed load of iPads.

00:45:51   It's like an army.

00:45:53   They remember when people were saying how Beats was going to help Apple deal with products

00:45:58   that had lots of SKUs because they're all those Beats headphone colors and things like

00:46:01   that.

00:46:04   I didn't count.

00:46:05   How many iPad models are there now?

00:46:07   Like 50?

00:46:08   There's currently five iPads on sale.

00:46:10   Well no, but then you've got the different sizes and the different colors.

00:46:13   So somebody counted how many SKUs it is now and it's an enormous number because you've

00:46:18   got every size in three different colors and then you've got the older models that are

00:46:24   also available like the two and the original iPad mini and both the Air models are out

00:46:30   there. There's a lot of iPads. Before color, because I've just done a quick

00:46:34   count, before colors, if you just take the different storage sizes and Wi-Fi and cellular,

00:46:39   there are 22. So then for the two new models, there's multiplied by three. And then for

00:46:46   the two older models, there's multiplied by two.

00:46:48   Yeah, it's a lot of iPads. It's a ridiculous amount of iPads.

00:46:51   Collect them all.

00:46:53   [laughter]

00:46:55   I dare you.

00:46:57   Someone has. Use Apple Pay.

00:46:59   But then the weird thing is,

00:47:01   so you have these different, it's so strange to me

00:47:03   because you have five iPads

00:47:05   that you can purchase

00:47:07   but they're kind of only two

00:47:09   models, really, the iPad Air and the iPad Mini.

00:47:11   But then there's different

00:47:13   iterations on them from what's inside.

00:47:15   Then there's different iterations for the storage.

00:47:17   Then there's color. It's so confusing.

00:47:19   fusing? It's like they're trying to dazzle people into buying their products.

00:47:26   I think what they're... I mean what's happening with the old models is simply

00:47:29   that they want to have something... it is the get them in the door with a low

00:47:34   low price thing just like I was saying about the Mac Mini and that low priced

00:47:38   iMac. It's the... their competitors have these cheap tablets and they don't want

00:47:45   to make a cheap tablet so instead they just sell their old tablet for cheap so

00:47:49   So the fact that the iPad mini is out there, the original iPad mini, first off all the

00:47:54   developers are just beside themselves because it's got an A5 chip in it just like the lingering

00:47:59   iPod touch that's out there also has the A5.

00:48:02   The iPad 2 essentially is still available as a new device that you can buy today, new

00:48:07   from Apple, which is crazy.

00:48:11   So that's one, is just to provide some pricing variety, that adds to the confusion.

00:48:15   three models of iPad that the two, the original, the Mini 2, the Mini 1, and the Air 1. And

00:48:25   then, you know, the color variation is nice. I don't have a problem with that. I don't

00:48:28   think that's too confusing. The iPad was already so confusing because it's got cellular and

00:48:32   not and it's got the different sizes, so it's just cranking it up another notch. But the,

00:48:38   you know, having, it must be really important to them to say iPad starts at whatever it

00:48:42   is now $239, I don't know what it is for that original, don't buy that model, but it's there

00:48:50   and it's cheaper. The original Air for $100 less is not a bad deal, and the iPad Mini

00:48:57   2 I would argue is actually the best deal of the iPad Mini line. I would recommend people

00:49:02   buy the iPad Mini 2 and save their money and not buy the iPad Mini 3 unless they really

00:49:06   need 128 gigs or 64 gigs of storage because it's exactly the same as the iPad Mini 3 except

00:49:14   for Touch ID.

00:49:16   You can live without it.

00:49:19   It's crazy, I cannot believe they didn't update the processor in any way for the iPad Mini

00:49:25   3.

00:49:26   Because we were given this incredible device with the Mini 2, which is now called the Mini

00:49:31   2.

00:49:33   I have to say that Mini 2 and Mini 3 is awkward, but I'm having Mini with Retina display was

00:49:38   more awkward.

00:49:39   Yeah, it was the worst.

00:49:40   It's just funny that they've renamed it retroactively as the i5 Mini 2.

00:49:43   I like that they were like, "No, numbers are too confusing, we're going to give them product

00:49:47   names."

00:49:48   No, product names are too confusing, we're going to give them product names and numbers.

00:49:52   Yeah, it's going to be numbers from here on out instead of specifying that it's a Retina

00:49:56   display and by the way, here's the iMac Retina 5K.

00:50:00   the iMac 5K, the 5K 2.

00:50:03   Yeah, yeah, it's for one shining moment last year the iPad mini and the iPad Air

00:50:11   were at equivalence, right? But before that, the previous year, the iPad

00:50:16   mini was underpowered compared to the iPad 4, as I recall. And I think so. I'm

00:50:22   not a hundred percent on that one. And then now we're back to that, which is

00:50:25   they've upgraded the Air and they're not worried about the mini. And I guess the

00:50:28   question there is, is that because they really just want the Mini to be out there and be

00:50:31   cheap and this way it can be cheap and their margins can be good or is it that it doesn't

00:50:37   sell very well? I think that, I think, you know, I've read a lot of stories that suggest

00:50:41   that the Mini, they thought the Mini would sell better and that the Air is the winner

00:50:47   there and that, you know, the existence of the iPhone 6 Plus calls the iPad Mini further

00:50:52   into question which you know I dispute because I use an iPad mini 2 every day and love it

00:50:58   and I didn't buy the 6 plus I bought the 6 and I'm happy with that combination but I

00:51:04   am prepared to accept that I'm out of line when it comes to what people like with their

00:51:09   iPads.

00:51:12   I want to talk about the Air 2 because you've seen one I assume.

00:51:17   Yeah.

00:51:18   The thinness and the lightness, how much of a jump is it?

00:51:22   - I don't know.

00:51:26   I mean, it feels thinner than the Air,

00:51:28   but it was already pretty thin.

00:51:30   And I'd say it's imperceptible, the weight is imperceptible.

00:51:34   I think, you know, iPads are not,

00:51:37   what we've learned about these devices

00:51:39   is that they're not a one-year upgrade cycle.

00:51:41   So the real question should probably be

00:51:43   compared to an iPad 3 or 4, how is the Air 2?

00:51:47   and is way lighter and thinner than those,

00:51:51   but it's incremental compared to the air.

00:51:53   It is noticeable, but not, you know,

00:51:57   it's not gonna blow you away.

00:51:58   And I don't think they're gonna be able to blow people away

00:52:00   with thinness and lightness again,

00:52:02   because there's not a lot left.

00:52:04   Until they float and are so thin

00:52:08   that they are extruded into a different dimension,

00:52:10   I think they're not gonna get much thinner or lighter.

00:52:12   I could be wrong.

00:52:14   People could like get their arms cut off

00:52:15   by the wrong angle of an iPad, but probably not.

00:52:19   So yeah, it's a little bit thinner, a little bit lighter.

00:52:22   I really wonder at one point,

00:52:23   the thin and light thing comes to an end.

00:52:25   I'm gonna write something about this at some point

00:52:27   on six colors, but you know, at some point,

00:52:31   thin is not an advantage anymore.

00:52:32   At some point it's a disadvantage

00:52:34   'cause it causes you to make a lot of trade-offs

00:52:36   in other areas.

00:52:37   And I'm not sure they needed to make the iPad Air

00:52:42   any thinner than it already was, but they did.

00:52:44   So that's fine. It's nice and thin.

00:52:47   Just at some point it's too thin.

00:52:51   And I wonder if what else they're sacrificing now

00:52:56   would be more important to more people

00:52:59   than it just being a little bit thinner.

00:53:01   - At 6.1 millimeters, can it actually,

00:53:07   I mean, I feel like we say this every time,

00:53:09   how much thinner can it actually get?

00:53:12   Like the components that they're putting in there

00:53:14   have to have a minimum thickness to them.

00:53:19   At some point it has to stop, right?

00:53:21   - Yeah, I mean this is, and this is what I want to write

00:53:26   about too, is that at some point it's so thin

00:53:28   that it cuts you, right?

00:53:29   So at some point, even if you could make it thinner

00:53:32   and all the components can be thinner,

00:53:35   and that's not true, they can't.

00:53:37   Like the glass, there's a point physically

00:53:38   where the glass won't be able to get any thinner

00:53:40   and the, you know, and it may be a lot more

00:53:43   than we, that it is capable of being today.

00:53:45   But at some point it's, we're talking about just physics

00:53:48   and the size of molecules.

00:53:50   And so at some point it won't be able to get any thinner

00:53:54   without dramatic changes.

00:53:55   I can't decide whether Apple's goal here

00:53:58   is to eventually make it a flexible thing

00:54:00   that you just roll up and put in your pocket or something,

00:54:03   that it's a piece of paper.

00:54:05   And if that's what they're going for,

00:54:07   but short of that, short of a piece of paper

00:54:11   that is actually an iPad.

00:54:13   And even then you want it to be rigid enough

00:54:17   when you're using it to touch on the screen and stuff

00:54:19   and not have it like curl away.

00:54:21   I don't know, I feel like they're reaching the end

00:54:24   of the thinness thing and they need to be focused on,

00:54:27   you know, better battery life and less power consumption

00:54:31   and reducing screen glare,

00:54:33   which they actually are trying to do

00:54:34   with the Air 2 a little bit.

00:54:36   And other features like that,

00:54:38   that are more important than thinness,

00:54:40   because at this point the device is plenty thin and light.

00:54:44   Having moved to the laminated screen

00:54:45   where the screen like on the iPhone now

00:54:47   with a there's no air gap between the screen

00:54:50   and the glass that covers it, that's good.

00:54:54   That's a step forward because it makes the screen

00:54:57   seem more directly under your finger

00:55:00   when you're touching on it.

00:55:01   But yeah, I feel like we are at the point

00:55:06   where thinness is no longer the dimension they need to be worried about, or the dimension

00:55:13   is the wrong word there, it's literally a dimension, the feature that is the thing that

00:55:18   drives them forward. It feels like they've got thinness pretty well licked and they should

00:55:23   move on to something else.

00:55:25   So the iPad Air, I think, is starting to show not like seams or cracks in the fact that

00:55:32   it's thin, but there are hardware changes that are occurring that to me indicate

00:55:37   the trade-offs they're having to make. So the rotation lock switch is gone.

00:55:43   Yes. And the Apple SIM. Now the Apple SIM is a very interesting thing because it's

00:55:49   basically allowing Apple to put their own kind of SIM card into this thing, but

00:55:56   what it's showing is they are struggling now to be able to have a removable SIM

00:56:00   Now obviously it's a benefit, the Apple sim is kind of a great benefit, but it's showing

00:56:08   to me that we're at the point now where they're having to make hardware decisions based on

00:56:12   the thinness.

00:56:13   So I just wonder, in my thinking, how much further does it go?

00:56:20   I don't think the Apple sim is because of thinness.

00:56:22   I think the Apple sim is because the last thing you want to do when you're stocking

00:56:26   70 different models of iPad is have to have yet again another multiplier because there's

00:56:33   the one that's got this company's SIM card in it or this company's technology in it.

00:56:37   They're trying to reduce that as much as possible so like everyone right out of the box will

00:56:41   work with whatever and it's all in software and you don't have to pop out something because

00:56:46   that is kind of ridiculous and primitive, right?

00:56:48   So I feel like that's where they're going.

00:56:50   They're probably motivated by thinness and I think the Switch is probably motivated by

00:56:54   and thinness, but also I bet they would tell you that they found that people don't use the switch very much.

00:57:01   Yeah, I mean, I never use mine.

00:57:06   I use mine, but I use it as a mute switch. I don't use it as an orientation lock.

00:57:12   And I don't use it that often. It usually just stays muted.

00:57:17   Yeah.

00:57:19   So, and they probably know, right?

00:57:22   They probably have statistics of like the number of flips of that switch that happen

00:57:26   on iPads, and it's probably not very much.

00:57:29   And they say, look, we can lose it.

00:57:30   And we'll, we're, we're getting rid of one moving part and it simplifies the hardware

00:57:35   design and maybe it allows us to make it thinner.

00:57:37   But you're right.

00:57:38   At some point you're sacrificing like battery life.

00:57:41   At some point you're sacrificing battery life because of this obsession with thinness and

00:57:44   lightness.

00:57:45   And at some point, battery, there's enough battery.

00:57:50   I'm not sure their products are quite at there's enough battery yet.

00:57:53   Certainly the phone's not, but even the iPad, you could argue, could have a little more battery

00:57:57   and that people might prefer a little more battery, 14 hours or 16 hours, rather than having it be a few millimeters thinner.

00:58:06   Do you have any sort of steer? Is it worth upgrading to the Air 2 if you have an Air?

00:58:13   Is it beneficial?

00:58:14   No, you don't think so?

00:58:15   Unless you really, really, really want Touch ID and you've got somebody who you can hand

00:58:21   down your iPad Air 1, 2 in your family or something like that.

00:58:26   But I don't think these are products that are made for a one year buying cycle.

00:58:33   They're not.

00:58:34   They're not.

00:58:35   There's nothing that jumps out.

00:58:36   I think even the glare thing isn't quite -- it's better but it's not like they solved the glare

00:58:40   and now it's like a Kindle Paperwhite. That was foreshadowing by the way. It's not like

00:58:46   that. This is a product that the real question is, is it a lot better and thinner and lighter

00:58:50   and faster than the iPad 3 and the iPad 4? And it is. And it is. But if you've got a

00:58:55   3, I wouldn't unless you just are somebody who loves, loves, loves Touch ID. And you

00:59:02   know, shine on you crazy diamond if that's you. And then for the iPad Mini 3, I wouldn't

00:59:07   recommend it to, you know, anyone who's got an iPad mini too.

00:59:12   There's no point. So let's talk about that Retina iMac.

00:59:18   Yeah, it's right behind me. Have you set it up?

00:59:21   I'm in the future, yeah, it's right here. And how do you feel about it?

00:59:27   Like, what was your initial impression when Apple showed it off and you got

00:59:30   to see it for the first time? Was it like the, you know, how you

00:59:33   mentioned that if you look at it, like, you lose $2,500 from your

00:59:37   wallet like that is that how it is? It's beamed out.

00:59:42   Well I'm in a weird position too because I've got a I've got a amount of

00:59:48   money on Lex Friedman and Dan Morin and John Moltz's podcast or The Rebound.

00:59:53   Dan was referring to this as his like his his rich uncle died and

00:59:58   left him some money for a computer but you know the reality is much more boring

01:00:03   which is that there's some money that those of us who left IDG get to toward our future,

01:00:08   you know, work endeavors. And one of the things we can do is buy computer equipment with it.

01:00:12   And at the event, Dan Frakes reminded me that that was the case. And I was like, oh no,

01:00:16   because now I look at that iMac and I think, oh, I've got to buy a computer. It could be that iMac.

01:00:23   If you've seen the retina MacBook Pro, that was the revelation, right? Cause it was like,

01:00:29   like "oh my god it's a Mac at retina

01:00:31   resolution" this is, I mean it's like

01:00:34   four of those screen style together but

01:00:37   that's what it is it's a retina Mac it's

01:00:40   not revelatory in that way because it's

01:00:42   just a retina Mac now it's huge and

01:00:46   because the 27 I mean it's a huge screen

01:00:48   it's all retina it's a pretty powerful

01:00:51   computer too I mean it's easy to lose

01:00:53   sight of that but this is the you know

01:00:55   both of the processor options for this

01:00:57   thing are powerful quad-core, you know, there's an i5 and an i7 with some pretty impressive

01:01:04   graphics capabilities. So the specs look really good, which is why so many people we know

01:01:09   who are really gigantic Mac nerds, who are Mac Pro users or Mac Mini users, are talking

01:01:17   about buying an iMac. And these are people who back in the day, remember the iMac was

01:01:20   the low-end computer for not serious people. This is the opposite of that. This is the

01:01:27   antithesis of the original iMac, other than that it's an all-in-one, because this is an

01:01:33   amazingly powerful thing with this crazy screen on it. Like Marco Arment, he made an order.

01:01:40   He's going to buy one. He's going to ditch that Mac Pro that they spent a year talking

01:01:44   about on ATP. I totally understand that. I'm probably going to get one myself. I made an

01:01:50   order and then I cancelled it when I found out I was going to be reviewing one because

01:01:53   I'll find out a lot more about what I feel about it by using it myself for my review

01:01:58   and then I can make an order if I want to buy one. But it's understandable why people

01:02:04   who would not have bought an iMac before would want this thing, not just for the screen but

01:02:08   because of all the other specs. But it's not for you, right? You're not going to get something

01:02:16   I mean, even if it's a good deal at £2,500 or £2,000, that's still a lot of money.

01:02:21   So I have a lot of money.

01:02:23   It's a good deal, but it's really expensive.

01:02:25   And what you do, and really what I do, but what you do is, I mean, a big screen is nice,

01:02:32   but it's not quite as necessary.

01:02:35   No, I'm not massively interested in putting my money into the desktop computer.

01:02:40   I just need something that can process audio quickly.

01:02:43   Right.

01:02:44   never do anything on it other than the editing. So I just need RAM and an SSD

01:02:49   really. I have a decent amount of RAM in the Mac Mini. I can't remember how

01:02:53   much I stopped my head but I never have problems there. It's just the speed that

01:02:56   it takes to read and write from the disks that causes me problems. And you

01:03:00   wouldn't get a Retina MacBook Pro because of the audio in and out dedicated?

01:03:03   Well I'm using a Retina MacBook Pro now as my main computer but I don't ever

01:03:09   record on it. So like for example to do all of the work I have a Retina MacBook

01:03:15   Pro like to do all of the show stuff and things like that that's my machine but

01:03:20   the production machine the mini. It's a mini is just for production. It's

01:03:23   purely for Skype calls and recording and the posting of the episodes but

01:03:27   everything else I do in a Retina MacBook Pro which I adore but my main computer

01:03:32   the computer that I'm spending a lot of money on I would want it to be a laptop

01:03:35   Right. Because you get the added benefit of portability.

01:03:39   Yeah, having a pretty good

01:03:43   MacBook Air, which is what I use as my main system now,

01:03:47   what this would do if I got the iMac, I mean now that I've got this office in my garage

01:03:51   and I'm working out here, I realized that's why I was in the market for

01:03:55   a Mac Mini, is I thought, you know, I leave

01:03:59   the laptop docked a lot of the time, and maybe I should just get a desktop

01:04:03   and have the laptop live in the house, the rest of the house, and me use it when

01:04:09   I'm on the couch and things, which a laptop is good for, and have something

01:04:12   dedicated out here. And so I'm still thinking about that, but I agree with

01:04:18   you. If I had to choose, I would not want to have some like compromised

01:04:24   awful thing that I could take around with me and have some amazing thing that

01:04:28   stayed rooted to the desk, but I'm fortunate to have a pretty good MacBook

01:04:32   Air, it's a last year's model so it's in great shape so I get to do both if I get that iMac.

01:04:43   It's good though, I mean it looks great, we'll see how it performs, everybody's got questions

01:04:48   and I'm looking forward to testing it out but in terms of what it looks like, it looks

01:04:52   like an iMac and in terms of what the screen looks like, it looks like the Retina MacBook

01:04:56   Pro except more, much, much, much more.

01:05:01   More Retina.

01:05:02   Yeah, more pixels, right? Because it's just enormous.

01:05:05   It's a 15 and a 13 inch diagonal on those MacBook Pros and this is a 27, so...

01:05:10   It's a lot of dots. That's an awful lot of dots.

01:05:13   Is the pixels per inch lower?

01:05:15   I don't know. I haven't looked.

01:05:19   Uhhh... Probably not. But I don't know.

01:05:23   I can't remember. I think I saw something about it, but...

01:05:27   Because I guess with a screen that size, it probably doesn't need to be that high

01:05:32   because you're far away from it anyway.

01:05:34   Because that's the thing, right?

01:05:35   Retina's relative pretty much.

01:05:38   It kind of just depends how close you are to it.

01:05:41   - Yeah, it's all about how close you are.

01:05:45   - I'm on the site now trying to find something,

01:05:49   just anything that would give me that information.

01:05:52   But I'm not having much luck at the moment.

01:05:54   - Yeah, I don't know.

01:05:55   - So let's say yes and or no.

01:05:57   - Sure, it's one of those.

01:05:59   I'm sure we'll get some follow up on that

01:06:02   and we'll feed back on it next week, how about that?

01:06:04   - Chat room real time follow up, 218 PPI on the Retina iMac.

01:06:10   - 218. - That's Neil Posner,

01:06:13   I think, in the chat room.

01:06:14   218, so it's lower than on a phone,

01:06:17   but the idea there is that's always been the case

01:06:19   with the Mac that you're using it

01:06:23   from a little bit further away.

01:06:24   - Cool. - That's a lot of dots.

01:06:28   - iOS 8.1 was released today.

01:06:30   - It was.

01:06:32   I updated immediately because nothing ever happens

01:06:35   that's bad.

01:06:36   - I updated-- - You update your iOS

01:06:37   immediately.

01:06:38   - I was terrified to do it, but I did it anyway.

01:06:40   - Why'd you do that?

01:06:43   Just because you wanted to have it?

01:06:46   - Yeah, why not?

01:06:47   - Dangerous.

01:06:50   - I need to have faith. - But it worked out.

01:06:51   - I need to have faith. - It worked fine.

01:06:52   It worked fine.

01:06:53   Well, I wanted it 'cause I wanted to try out Apple Pay.

01:06:56   So I, you know, so I could write something about Apple pay, which I did.

01:07:00   I downloaded it and walked to.

01:07:02   Whole foods and bought some stuff and I use my phone and it worked.

01:07:08   And then I walked home and I blew away the, uh, the, uh, the guy at the

01:07:13   checkout line, cause he was like, what just happened because, I mean,

01:07:16   he knew I was doing it because they have little stickers everywhere.

01:07:18   That's like, Oh, Apple pay.

01:07:19   You can use that now.

01:07:20   But, um, it was all very abrupt.

01:07:23   just sort of like he was waiting for my next part in the payment process and instead the

01:07:29   receipt just printed out.

01:07:32   I pulled out the lines from your review, your live review of Apple Pay.

01:07:39   Tyler, your checkout assistant, said both "oh you're gonna try that when you try to

01:07:45   do it" and "whoa I don't know what happened" like I love that clearly Whole Foods had not

01:07:51   trained him at all on what he was going to be using today.

01:07:55   It felt to me like he had been trained. So he was ready to do it, but he'd never seen

01:08:01   it actually work with a customer before. Because I mean, literally I walked over there as soon

01:08:05   as my phone rebooted. So unless they had some sort of beta, you know, Apple beta tester

01:08:10   person, they just got the corporate training about it, but nobody had actually used it

01:08:13   in practice. I was probably the first person in their store to use it. And so I told him

01:08:18   I was going to do it and he was like, "Oh." And it sounded very much like, "Oh yeah, they

01:08:21   told us about this but I've never seen it and then so then he saw it in action

01:08:25   it's like whoa it's you know is what just happened was very much like you

01:08:29   know unbelievable you didn't do anything you were just standing with your phone

01:08:32   and it says you paid which is true that's exactly what it was I mean the

01:08:36   the I didn't even need to like tap the phone to the thing I just I kind of held

01:08:41   it in my hand and roughly in front of where that was the little terminal was

01:08:46   and it and it slid out the little Apple pay thing and I put my I put my thumb

01:08:50   I put my thumb on the Touch ID to unlock the phone to do something.

01:08:55   I wasn't really thinking straight about what I was doing.

01:08:58   I was like, "Oh, well, this Apple Pay thing is happening.

01:09:00   I'll unlock my phone and see what I do next."

01:09:02   That just paid for it.

01:09:04   I just put my thumb on it.

01:09:06   It just paid, which is fine because that's what I wanted to do.

01:09:08   Just before I knew it, I had paid for my chicken and peanut butter and I was out of there.

01:09:14   Aren't you going to get Manchego?

01:09:15   I don't even know what that is.

01:09:17   Manchego is a kind of cheese.

01:09:19   from Spain so it's near you Myke and it's a very tasty tasty cheese and I was going

01:09:24   to get some manchego and some beer too but this morning when I was running over there

01:09:28   my wife said we need chicken for dinner tonight so buy some chicken and I was like alright

01:09:32   and I didn't want to do a big shopping trip because I really needed to get back and write

01:09:36   the story before my phone call with Apple actually about the iMac so yeah I didn't get

01:09:45   the cheese. I'll have to go back over there sometime. I can go...

01:09:48   Whole Foods is five minutes from my house. I can go there anytime I want and I

01:09:51   don't even need to bring anything but my phone and I can buy everything in the

01:09:54   store.

01:09:55   That's how it works, right? Yeah, I mean because it's free money.

01:09:58   Yeah, it's just my phone. It's Apple's money. I think that's what that means. Apple pays.

01:10:03   I think that's what that means.

01:10:04   I think that's probably it. Apple's paying for this.

01:10:08   Apple will pay. If they were our enemy, we'd say someday Apple

01:10:11   you'll pay. You'll pay, Apple. But now they pay every day now.

01:10:15   Apparently so yeah. Yeah, I'll have to go back for some Manchego later because that's a good cheese

01:10:19   Seems like that it hasn't moved out the hiccups though. I've seen a couple of people just either a like it's just not working

01:10:28   or be

01:10:30   Apple said these cars would work. However, no

01:10:33   It's day. Well, it's it's the morning of day one. And so I think

01:10:37   some

01:10:39   Some people like Dan Morin found out like his cards are supposedly

01:10:44   supposedly work but don't.

01:10:47   But I'm unclear on whose cards are working today

01:10:51   and whose cards are working eventually.

01:10:54   I have a Chase Sapphire card and it worked.

01:10:58   I couldn't take a picture of it,

01:11:02   use the camera to enter in the numbers thing though

01:11:04   because my credit card's strange

01:11:06   and puts the numbers on the back instead of the front.

01:11:09   It just confuses everybody.

01:11:10   I don't know why they do it.

01:11:12   - It's to make you look more elite, Jason.

01:11:14   - I think so, it's a weird credit card.

01:11:16   But anyway, it was in there.

01:11:17   But this is gonna take time 'cause it's not just Apple,

01:11:20   it's your bank has to be an Apple system

01:11:23   and support the new thing.

01:11:25   And that's gonna take time.

01:11:27   And this is all US only, we should say.

01:11:28   I mean, this rollout is starting in the US

01:11:31   and will eventually go elsewhere.

01:11:32   The US is certainly ripe for disruption in this area.

01:11:36   But it was cool, it was fun, I'll do it again.

01:11:40   It beats, even if I have a card in my wallet, in my pocket,

01:11:45   it beats taking out the card and swiping it

01:11:48   and saying okay and signing and all that.

01:11:52   I mean, I'm not gonna sit there with like the lady

01:11:54   in the video and be like, oh, getting this card out,

01:11:57   it's so hard.

01:11:58   I wish there was a better way.

01:11:59   Apple Pay.

01:12:00   - Thank you for saving the day.

01:12:04   - Yeah, exactly.

01:12:06   Thanks Apple Pay, you made it all better.

01:12:09   something like that.

01:12:10   Yeah, yeah.

01:12:13   It was, I'll do it again.

01:12:17   It was fun.

01:12:18   It was fun and it's easy.

01:12:19   And everybody who's used to having their phone out

01:12:21   in the checkout line anyway, 'cause they're bored,

01:12:24   now you just leave it out and pay and you're done

01:12:26   and you walk away.

01:12:27   It's pretty cool.

01:12:28   But it's early days.

01:12:29   - From a pure infrastructure perspective,

01:12:32   it's very surprising to me that like stores,

01:12:37   like Whole Foods and I've seen other people

01:12:39   like tweeting of the other things that they've been buying today.

01:12:42   It's just interesting that everyone's ready.

01:12:46   You know, I know that there's hiccups, but it's a huge undertaking.

01:12:51   Yeah, and then they announced it, giving them a month to prepare further, sort of openly

01:12:57   about it.

01:12:58   But yeah, Apple's got some clout and they've got good connections with the banks and retailers

01:13:02   are getting on board.

01:13:03   And I'm sure, you know, the part that we don't read about is the people who make these systems,

01:13:09   and presumably that's a big part of this too, is the people who make the payment systems

01:13:13   who are integrating the payment systems with all these companies, you know, they're probably

01:13:16   getting leaned on by the retailer saying, "Well, this sounds cool.

01:13:20   Maybe we should support this."

01:13:21   And they're like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:13:22   We've got a software update that'll do that."

01:13:24   And so that's the part beneath the waterline here that's also going on, which is, you know,

01:13:29   provider of payment systems to these five major companies and they've got an update

01:13:37   in a month that will support Apple Pay and then they'll be on board with it.

01:13:42   That's all.

01:13:43   It's amazing.

01:13:44   That's why I chose to walk to Whole Foods.

01:13:47   Whole Foods was one of the five places on that slide on the announcement.

01:13:52   I thought, "Okay, they've got a lockdown with Whole Foods."

01:13:54   I've been to our Whole Foods and I've seen the new terminals.

01:13:56   I know they're ready to go.

01:13:59   Likewise, I knew which one of my credit cards was on the slide on day one when they announced

01:14:03   this thing and it sent us an email saying, "You can now use Apple Pay."

01:14:07   And I thought, "Alright, I can do this."

01:14:09   Not everybody can yet, but I'm going to make the best case scenario here, which I did,

01:14:14   and I got peanut butter out of it.

01:14:16   So, and check it.

01:14:17   Yeah, they were probably a pretty good bet for one of the ones that was going to work

01:14:20   if you went there.

01:14:21   Yeah, yeah.

01:14:22   And I mean, I would have written about it if it didn't work.

01:14:24   That would have been an interesting story, but it worked.

01:14:26   It worked fine.

01:14:27   And putting in the number was easy too.

01:14:28   I mean it's literally like filling out a form to buy something online.

01:14:31   You put in your credit card number and your expiration and all that.

01:14:36   And then my bank, it was a two factor.

01:14:39   It sent a text to my wife's cell phone with a code and then I entered in that code and

01:14:44   then it was authorized.

01:14:45   So it was all, it was pretty easy and it felt fairly secure.

01:14:49   So yeah.

01:14:52   So that about wraps it up for today's episode of Upgrade.

01:14:54   If you'd like to catch the show notes for today, you can go to relay.fm/upgrade/six.

01:15:02   If you'd like to find us online, I am @imyke.

01:15:06   Jason is @jsnell, J-S-N-E-L-L, and he writes over at the fantastic sixcolors.com.

01:15:13   If for some crazy reason you listen to the show and don't read Six Colors, you're missing

01:15:16   out.

01:15:17   It's really one of my favorite new websites on the web, and I don't just say that because

01:15:21   I get to talk to this guy every week.

01:15:23   Thank you, Myke.

01:15:25   Our friends over at Six Colors, wait a second, that's me over there.

01:15:31   And I'm getting my Kindle tomorrow, so we've got more things to talk about.

01:15:34   And Yosemite came out, and we haven't talked about that yet.

01:15:36   Poor little Kindle.

01:15:37   One day, Kindle, one day.

01:15:39   Next week.

01:15:40   I will have used the Retina iMac, so I think next week might be the week for the Kindle

01:15:44   talk, but we'll see.

01:15:45   We'll see.

01:15:46   Kindle talk with Jason and Myke.

01:15:48   That could be our five-minute vertical podcast at the beginning of the show before the real

01:15:52   show starts.

01:15:53   And thank you so much to our sponsors for this week, Smile on Hover.

01:15:58   Friend.

01:15:59   Friend.

01:16:00   Our friends.

01:16:01   Friends and sponsors, Smile on Hover will be back next time.

01:16:02   Say goodbye, Jesus.

01:16:04   Goodbye, Myke.

01:16:05   Goodbye, everybody.

01:16:06   [Music]

01:16:06   [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:16:09   [Music]

01:16:16   Cool.