Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 443.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14 ◼   ► Electric Capital One and Upgrade Plus.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Hi, Jason.

00:00:20 ◼   ► - Hi, Myke.

00:00:21 ◼   ► - We've got a big show today.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Since our last episode, Apple revealed

00:00:25 ◼   ► new Macintosh's to the world.

00:00:27 ◼   ► You've gotten to spend some time with one of them,

00:00:30 ◼   ► the MacBook Pro.

00:00:31 ◼   ► And we're gonna do a review of it today on this episode,

00:00:33 ◼   ► as well as talk about the Mac mini

00:00:35 ◼   ► and Dan Morin's coverage of Six Colors,

00:00:37 ◼   ► and much, much more.

00:00:39 ◼   ► But before we do all of that,

00:00:41 ◼   ► I have a hashtag Snell Talk question for you,

00:00:44 ◼   ► which comes from Kevin, who wants to know,

00:00:47 ◼   ► are you still paying for iTunes match?

00:00:50 ◼   ► - Right, I took the Snell Talk question

00:00:52 ◼   ► as a public service announcement just to explain to people.

00:00:55 ◼   ► If you are an Apple Music subscriber,

00:00:56 ◼   ► you don't need to pay for iTunes match

00:00:58 ◼   ► because iTunes match functionality is included

00:01:00 ◼   ► with your Apple music subscription.

00:01:02 ◼   ► iTunes match for those who don't know,

00:01:03 ◼   ► is a thing where it looks at all of the music

00:01:05 ◼   ► that you've got on your personal music library

00:01:07 ◼   ► and it scans it and it either matches it to stuff

00:01:10 ◼   ► that's in the iTunes library, the Apple music library,

00:01:13 ◼   ► or it uploads it and it allows you to have cloud access

00:01:17 ◼   ► to your entire sort of like MP3 library

00:01:20 ◼   ► that you have on your Mac at home.

00:01:22 ◼   ► It means that it'll play on an iPhone and stuff like that.

00:01:24 ◼   ► It's a fun little feature, but it was very quickly

00:01:26 ◼   ► sort of subsumed by Apple Music,

00:01:28 ◼   ► which also does all of those same things.

00:01:31 ◼   ► So if you're an Apple Music subscriber,

00:01:34 ◼   ► you don't need to be paying for iTunes match.

00:01:36 ◼   ► And to answer Kevin's question, well, no,

00:01:38 ◼   ► as soon as I became an Apple Music subscriber,

00:01:40 ◼   ► I stopped paying for iTunes match

00:01:42 ◼   ► because I don't need them both.

00:01:43 ◼   ► If you're not an Apple Music subscriber

00:01:45 ◼   ► and you wanna sort of like be your own music streaming

00:01:47 ◼   ► service with the music that you have and nothing else,

00:01:50 ◼   ► then iTunes match is the way to do that.

00:01:52 ◼   ► - I have a secondary question from Zach,

00:01:55 ◼   ► who's listening live in the Relay FM members Discord.

00:01:58 ◼   ► We do record this show live every Monday

00:02:00 ◼   ► if you wanna hang out.

00:02:01 ◼   ► Especially if you're a member,

00:02:01 ◼   ► it's fun to hang out in the Discord while we do it.

00:02:03 ◼   ► Zach asks, "Doesn't iTunes match it to DRM free

00:02:07 ◼   ► and content and Apple Music will match it to DRM'd content?"

00:02:12 ◼   ► - I don't know what that means, Zach.

00:02:13 ◼   ► - So let's imagine you had a live version of a song

00:02:17 ◼   ► or whatever, that's your live version of a song.

00:02:20 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:02:21 ◼   ► - Is it going to do it to a different,

00:02:24 ◼   ► like to a version that's in the Apple Music Library

00:02:26 ◼   ► rather than the one that's yours?

00:02:28 ◼   ► - It's not supposed to, and in most cases it doesn't.

00:02:31 ◼   ► There's a chance that it might do that by mistake,

00:02:34 ◼   ► it's not supposed to do that.

00:02:36 ◼   ► So I, yeah, I've got live albums and stuff

00:02:38 ◼   ► that are in my iTunes Music Library

00:02:43 ◼   ► and will play from any device.

00:02:44 ◼   ► So it doesn't matter.

00:02:46 ◼   ► In fact, the clever thing about it is,

00:02:48 ◼   ► if you downloaded content from someplace,

00:02:50 ◼   ► wasn't yours, and it matches, you get it.

00:02:55 ◼   ► - And then it's in the library.

00:02:57 ◼   ► - It may be, again, this is a question about responding live

00:03:02 ◼   ► to a question that is unclear in a Discord,

00:03:05 ◼   ► but there is a question about like,

00:03:08 ◼   ► if you're matching in Apple Music,

00:03:10 ◼   ► is it all wrapped in Apple Music DRM

00:03:13 ◼   ► and expires when you leave?

00:03:15 ◼   ► That may be true, I don't know.

00:03:17 ◼   ► the point I would make is,

00:03:19 ◼   ► do not upload your entire music collection to Apple

00:03:23 ◼   ► in any feature in iTunes match or in Apple music

00:03:26 ◼   ► and then delete your music collection.

00:03:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay.

00:03:30 ◼   ► - You should keep it. - That's the way to do it.

00:03:31 ◼   ► Yes, and then you can check it, right?

00:03:32 ◼   ► But then you've also still got it, it's yours.

00:03:36 ◼   ► And then you can see if it's the stuff that you want,

00:03:39 ◼   ► but yeah, don't delete the music.

00:03:41 ◼   ► - No, so you keep it around.

00:03:43 ◼   ► And if you decide to switch to Spotify

00:03:45 ◼   ► or something like that,

00:03:45 ◼   ► What you could do in that scenario is cancel Apple Music, pay from iTunes Match to get

00:03:51 ◼   ► your stuff that you have on your hard drive, again, that you saved and you didn't throw

00:03:56 ◼   ► away available on your phone when you're out and about, and then also have Spotify.

00:04:01 ◼   ► Because I don't think Spotify will let you upload tracks and stuff like that.

00:04:04 ◼   ► They used to a long time ago.

00:04:06 ◼   ► There are ways to do it.

00:04:07 ◼   ► There are ways to do it, but iTunes Match is not relevant if you are an Apple Music

00:04:11 ◼   ► subscriber.

00:04:12 ◼   ► It's duplicative.

00:04:13 ◼   ► but what ifs all come down to don't throw away your music collection. Don't do that. Don't trust Apple.

00:04:20 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on a future episode of Upgrade,

00:04:25 ◼   ► just send in your Snell Talk over at UpgradeFeedback.com. I use question mark

00:04:29 ◼   ► SnellTalk in the Relay FM members Discord. Thank you to everybody that has done so.

00:04:35 ◼   ► It is time for some follow-up, Jason Snell, which has all been submitted again while our wonderful

00:04:42 ◼   ► or new feedback tool.

00:04:45 ◼   ► I'm gonna start off with something sent in

00:04:46 ◼   ► from _DavidSmith, which I enjoyed that _ sent this

00:04:50 ◼   ► via the upgrade feedback tool when he could have just

00:04:53 ◼   ► texted it to me or put it in Slack, but you know,

00:04:55 ◼   ► very official, he sent it in that way.

00:04:57 ◼   ► - Thanks.

00:04:58 ◼   ► - And this is about, remember Zombie Arms?

00:05:00 ◼   ► We were talking about Zombie Arms?

00:05:02 ◼   ► _ wrote in to say, "I explored a bit about the origin

00:05:05 ◼   ► of the phrase 'Zombie Arms' as it relates

00:05:07 ◼   ► to touchscreen Macs.

00:05:08 ◼   ► The earliest reference I could find was actually Jason

00:05:11 ◼   ► talking to Jon Gruber on the talk show episode 164

00:05:15 ◼   ► back in August of 2016,

00:05:17 ◼   ► as part of a discussion about the touch bar.

00:05:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, so the proof that I did not invent that term,

00:05:24 ◼   ► so proof that it predates that.

00:05:26 ◼   ► - Yeah. - I don't know

00:05:27 ◼   ► where it comes from.

00:05:28 ◼   ► - Or maybe you did invent it.

00:05:30 ◼   ► - I didn't.

00:05:30 ◼   ► - Maybe you did though. - I really didn't invent

00:05:32 ◼   ► Zombie Arms. - Do you know

00:05:33 ◼   ► if you've considered that?

00:05:34 ◼   ► - No.

00:05:35 ◼   ► - Brian writes in and says,

00:05:36 ◼   ► "Regarding touch screens coming to the MacBook Pro first,

00:05:39 ◼   ► it's the laptop iOS developers use.

00:05:41 ◼   ► If all it did was let developers use the touch screen

00:05:44 ◼   ► for their iOS simulator, some of us would buy it.

00:05:46 ◼   ► I found that as an interesting idea

00:05:49 ◼   ► for why developers might want a touch screen.

00:05:51 ◼   ► - Sure, I do think it's interesting.

00:05:55 ◼   ► I think it's novel.

00:05:56 ◼   ► I don't think that's like the reason they do it,

00:05:57 ◼   ► but I do think it's a novel use that would be useful

00:06:00 ◼   ► if they let developers have access to that.

00:06:03 ◼   ► I mean, you're gonna get the zombie arms, but you know,

00:06:06 ◼   ► it's okay. - You can do that.

00:06:07 ◼   ► And I had one counterpoint that I hadn't considered

00:06:10 ◼   ► from Anthony who said, "I would hate to see a touch screen

00:06:13 ◼   ► "added to the Macs at the expense of a noticeably thicker

00:06:17 ◼   ► "or heavier screen."

00:06:19 ◼   ► - Fair enough, but there are lots of PC laptops out there.

00:06:22 ◼   ► They all have touch screens.

00:06:23 ◼   ► There are iPhones and iPads.

00:06:26 ◼   ► Fair enough.

00:06:30 ◼   ► Yes, it would be a shame if the screens

00:06:35 ◼   ► of a MacBook Pro got worse because of the touch screen.

00:06:39 ◼   ► I'll also point out that it might not be the touchscreen,

00:06:42 ◼   ► it might be other stuff.

00:06:43 ◼   ► Because if the Apple were to do something

00:06:44 ◼   ► that was more convertible,

00:06:46 ◼   ► they may have to do things like put the brains

00:06:48 ◼   ► of the computer or a battery in that top half,

00:06:52 ◼   ► which would make the balance of it really different

00:06:54 ◼   ► than it is now.

00:06:55 ◼   ► There's lots of things that could happen there.

00:06:58 ◼   ► So we will see, but I am dubious

00:07:02 ◼   ► that Apple would add a touchscreen.

00:07:07 ◼   ► And when you look at other PC laptops, it's fine.

00:07:11 ◼   ► So I just, but fair enough.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Yes, that would be a negative

00:07:15 ◼   ► if they made your whole laptop thicker.

00:07:19 ◼   ► I actually kind of don't care about

00:07:21 ◼   ► if the screen being thicker,

00:07:22 ◼   ► it would be more about the weight and the balance

00:07:25 ◼   ► and the laptop being thicker.

00:07:26 ◼   ► Yeah, sure, sure.

00:07:28 ◼   ► I'm, yeah, I'm doubtful that this is gonna be an issue,

00:07:31 ◼   ► but I don't deny that if it were, it would be a problem.

00:07:35 ◼   ► All right, let's talk about the MacBook Pro.

00:07:38 ◼   ► So you've had one for the best part of a week also?

00:07:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, five-ish days, six days, something like that, yeah.

00:07:46 ◼   ► - So we're gonna talk about the MacBook Pro

00:07:48 ◼   ► and the M2 chips kind of all in this one discussion,

00:07:51 ◼   ► and we'll touch on the Mac Mini.

00:07:52 ◼   ► Oh, and there's a HomePod.

00:07:53 ◼   ► We'll talk about that too a little bit later

00:07:56 ◼   ► into this episode. - Sure, which I don't have.

00:07:58 ◼   ► - What I wanted to start with though

00:08:00 ◼   ► is the configuration that you got.

00:08:03 ◼   ► Could you let me know the specs?

00:08:04 ◼   ► But also I wanna talk about the fact

00:08:05 ◼   ► that you have a 16 inch laptop

00:08:07 ◼   ► and I just wanna know how that felt to use.

00:08:09 ◼   ► - It is a 16 inch MacBook Pro M2 Max

00:08:14 ◼   ► with 12 cores and 38 GPUs.

00:08:18 ◼   ► I think it's a terabyte and 64 RAM.

00:08:24 ◼   ► I don't know, I would have to go get it.

00:08:25 ◼   ► It's actually not right in front of me right now.

00:08:27 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:08:28 ◼   ► - It's a big one. - It's powerful.

00:08:29 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:08:30 ◼   ► - It's the big one in all dimensions.

00:08:32 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:08:35 ◼   ► - So when was the last time you used a laptop of this size,

00:08:39 ◼   ► if you have ever?

00:08:41 ◼   ► - I mean, I probably,

00:08:43 ◼   ► the last time I used a laptop of this size

00:08:44 ◼   ► was when they introduced the 16 inch MacBook Pro on Intel

00:08:49 ◼   ► or I mean, right, 'cause I got the 14 inch for M1.

00:08:53 ◼   ► So it was that first,

00:08:55 ◼   ► it was that right before the pandemic event in New York City

00:08:59 ◼   ► where they did the first 16 inch

00:09:00 ◼   ► where they still had the touch bar,

00:09:03 ◼   ► but they fixed the keyboard.

00:09:05 ◼   ► That was sort of the, I think the last time

00:09:08 ◼   ► that I spent any appreciable time with a laptop this large.

00:09:11 ◼   ► - And this is just what Apple sent you, right?

00:09:13 ◼   ► You didn't ask for a 16 inch computer?

00:09:15 ◼   ► - No, I did not, no.

00:09:16 ◼   ► - Okay. - But that's what

00:09:17 ◼   ► they sent me.

00:09:18 ◼   ► - And I'm just intrigued. - I think they're having

00:09:19 ◼   ► a laugh.

00:09:20 ◼   ► - I wanna know like how it felt.

00:09:22 ◼   ► Like I know this is not the interesting part of the review,

00:09:24 ◼   ► but I've been desperate to know how you got on

00:09:27 ◼   ► with that like massive laptop.

00:09:30 ◼   ► - Really huge.

00:09:32 ◼   ► - Yes, it's gigantic, it's enormous.

00:09:34 ◼   ► It's hilariously enormous.

00:09:37 ◼   ► I mean, what do you want me to say?

00:09:38 ◼   ► I hate it.

00:09:39 ◼   ► I hate this.

00:09:40 ◼   ► - I just wanted to get your like,

00:09:42 ◼   ► did you have a revelation or what?

00:09:44 ◼   ► - I would never in a billion years

00:09:46 ◼   ► want a laptop this large, right?

00:09:48 ◼   ► Fortunately, the 14 inch is exactly the same on the inside

00:09:51 ◼   ► other than like battery capacity

00:09:53 ◼   ► and the literal physical size of the screen.

00:09:55 ◼   ► But like computer wise, they're the same.

00:09:58 ◼   ► So you can choose.

00:09:59 ◼   ► I would never in a million years

00:10:01 ◼   ► choose the 16 inch ergonomically.

00:10:02 ◼   ► I don't see the benefit in having that screen.

00:10:06 ◼   ► And I mean, like, I didn't even know where to put my hands

00:10:09 ◼   ► on the keyboard, Myke,

00:10:11 ◼   ► 'cause my hands are like drifting around

00:10:13 ◼   ► 'cause there's like the big speakers to the side

00:10:16 ◼   ► and there's just this vast amount of space

00:10:18 ◼   ► on the keyboard plane of the laptop.

00:10:21 ◼   ► And I didn't even like,

00:10:22 ◼   ► I try to orient my hands sometimes

00:10:24 ◼   ► by the edge of the laptop,

00:10:25 ◼   ► but you can't reach the edge of the laptop.

00:10:27 ◼   ► It just goes on forever.

00:10:30 ◼   ► Like, you know, I don't know.

00:10:32 ◼   ► It's big.

00:10:34 ◼   ► It's not a size for me.

00:10:36 ◼   ► And those who love it, bless you.

00:10:39 ◼   ► Great.

00:10:40 ◼   ► It is a beautiful, huge screen.

00:10:42 ◼   ► As a thing you put on your desk,

00:10:45 ◼   ► I can get behind why you might want it.

00:10:48 ◼   ► I tried to use it as a laptop, like in my lap and stuff.

00:10:51 ◼   ► And it's, yeah, it's gigantic.

00:10:55 ◼   ► I would love to know, Upgradians,

00:10:57 ◼   ► if you use a 16-inch laptop every day,

00:11:01 ◼   ► I wanna know why you chose it.

00:11:03 ◼   ► Send us some feedback. - Why?

00:11:04 ◼   ► - And we can talk about it.

00:11:05 ◼   ► I'm not judging you, right?

00:11:06 ◼   ► There is, for me, no judgment.

00:11:08 ◼   ► I'm just intrigued.

00:11:10 ◼   ► - And where do you use it primarily?

00:11:12 ◼   ► - Yeah. - How about that one too?

00:11:13 ◼   ► Because I suspect a lot of 16-inch laptops

00:11:16 ◼   ► are left on a desk, right?

00:11:18 ◼   ► They're not- - Maybe.

00:11:19 ◼   ► - toted around all the time and,

00:11:21 ◼   ► "Oh, I'm on the couch with my giant 16-inch laptop."

00:11:24 ◼   ► But then why are you using it as a laptop?

00:11:27 ◼   ► Get a monitor and a keyboard.

00:11:29 ◼   ► Why would you get a 16-inch laptop

00:11:31 ◼   ► and then not take it anywhere?

00:11:32 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:11:34 ◼   ► I'm just really intrigued.

00:11:35 ◼   ► So if you have a 16-inch MacBook Pro and you use it,

00:11:39 ◼   ► I want to know why you chose it and how you use it.

00:11:42 ◼   ► Let me know.

00:11:43 ◼   ► Great feedback. - And what is wrong with you?

00:11:44 ◼   ► No, sorry. - No, I'm not saying that part.

00:11:46 ◼   ► That's Jason.

00:11:47 ◼   ► Myke just was curious.

00:11:48 ◼   ► And we can talk about it.

00:11:49 ◼   ► I'll collect these up if we get people right in.

00:11:51 ◼   ► - Great. - And we can talk

00:11:52 ◼   ► about it later on.

00:11:53 ◼   ► - All right, that's UpgradFeedback.com, right?

00:11:55 ◼   ► UpgradeFeedback.com. - UpgradeFeedback.com.

00:11:57 ◼   ► Hit the link in the top of the show notes,

00:11:58 ◼   ► send us some feedback.

00:12:00 ◼   ► So by and large, this MacBook Pro,

00:12:03 ◼   ► everything that's new is inside, right?

00:12:05 ◼   ► It's like the power of the thing.

00:12:07 ◼   ► That's where the newness is.

00:12:08 ◼   ► Outside of that, there isn't really much to talk about.

00:12:11 ◼   ► - This is, I mean, that's how my lead of my story is,

00:12:14 ◼   ► is here's what it's not new.

00:12:15 ◼   ► It's not, it's not new.

00:12:17 ◼   ► We did that already, right?

00:12:19 ◼   ► M1 MacBook Pro had more ports, and it had Apple Silicon,

00:12:23 ◼   ► and it had that beautiful backlit, the mini-LED, HDR display.

00:12:28 ◼   ► It is the best display Apple has ever made, basically,

00:12:34 ◼   ► for the Mac, certainly.

00:12:37 ◼   ► It is that again, right?

00:12:40 ◼   ► Like, there's not anything really new,

00:12:44 ◼   ► except that they took the processor from M1 to M2.

00:12:48 ◼   ► So it's a generational boost, which is something,

00:12:51 ◼   ► but it's not a lot.

00:12:53 ◼   ► I mean, I think what I said was,

00:12:55 ◼   ► if you have an M1 MacBook Pro, I think you're fine.

00:12:58 ◼   ► Unless you're in this,

00:13:01 ◼   ► unless you're one of these people

00:13:02 ◼   ► who it just doesn't matter,

00:13:04 ◼   ► I always need the fastest

00:13:05 ◼   ► because I could use all of that power.

00:13:07 ◼   ► So get me the fastest again,

00:13:09 ◼   ► 'cause it is a little bit faster, 'cause it's an M2.

00:13:12 ◼   ► Or you've got a very specific need,

00:13:14 ◼   ► like with the HDMI,

00:13:15 ◼   ► being able to output at higher resolution

00:13:17 ◼   ► and frame rates like, okay.

00:13:20 ◼   ► Or the only other scenario could really come up with

00:13:22 ◼   ► from the M1 would be regret.

00:13:25 ◼   ► Like I bought the M1, but I kind of like cheaped out

00:13:29 ◼   ► on the specs and I've regretted the size

00:13:30 ◼   ► of the internal drive or the RAM or whatever.

00:13:33 ◼   ► And like, and you're gonna give yourself a mulligan

00:13:36 ◼   ► and buy an M2 and then sell off your M1, like, okay.

00:13:39 ◼   ► But a regular user of an M1 MacBook Pro should feel fine

00:13:44 ◼   ► because these things are not meant to last a year

00:13:47 ◼   ► or 15 months.

00:13:48 ◼   ► They are meant to last a lot longer.

00:13:50 ◼   ► The difference in speed is not worth

00:13:53 ◼   ► the price of buying a brand new laptop.

00:13:55 ◼   ► Your laptop is fine.

00:13:57 ◼   ► So I think that the truth of this product is

00:14:00 ◼   ► it's primarily for the holdouts, right?

00:14:03 ◼   ► Lots of people who bought the,

00:14:05 ◼   ► maybe that 2018, or 2019 MacBook Pro 15

00:14:10 ◼   ► that they rolled out, or one prior to that,

00:14:13 ◼   ► but like an Intel MacBook Pro, late model,

00:14:16 ◼   ► Still pretty good, still pretty new,

00:14:19 ◼   ► couldn't really justify getting rid of it.

00:14:21 ◼   ► Also, a lot of people talked about sitting out the M1 era

00:14:26 ◼   ► because they were concerned about a processor transition

00:14:28 ◼   ► and a lot of bumps.

00:14:29 ◼   ► I would argue that the processor transition

00:14:31 ◼   ► was actually incredibly smooth,

00:14:33 ◼   ► but you do get those people who are like,

00:14:36 ◼   ► "Mm-mm, no first-generation hardware,

00:14:39 ◼   ► "I'm just gonna wait."

00:14:40 ◼   ► I suspect a lot of those people said that

00:14:42 ◼   ► and then they saw the reviews of the M1s

00:14:43 ◼   ► and they're like, "Okay, nevermind."

00:14:45 ◼   ► But I think that there are also people out there

00:14:47 ◼   ► who are like that.

00:14:48 ◼   ► But the most likely scenario is,

00:14:50 ◼   ► you just bought a laptop in 2019.

00:14:52 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:14:55 ◼   ► And you just bought it.

00:14:56 ◼   ► You're not in the market for a new laptop.

00:14:59 ◼   ► Those are the kind of people

00:15:00 ◼   ► for whom the M2 MacBook Pros make most sense, right?

00:15:04 ◼   ► Because there, you're still getting what we talked about

00:15:07 ◼   ► 15, 14 months ago in late '21,

00:15:11 ◼   ► which is the enormous leap that you get

00:15:14 ◼   ► going from Intel to Apple Silicon, that you still get.

00:15:17 ◼   ► And then the leap is just that much further

00:15:20 ◼   ► because it's M2 instead of M1.

00:15:22 ◼   ► But otherwise, yeah, these are really familiar,

00:15:26 ◼   ► recognizable laptops because they're just,

00:15:29 ◼   ► this is unlike the MacBook Air

00:15:33 ◼   ► because it changed its physical appearance

00:15:37 ◼   ► when it went to M2.

00:15:39 ◼   ► This is a speed bump.

00:15:41 ◼   ► This is what an Apple Silicon speed bump looks like,

00:15:45 ◼   ► which is everything gets a little bit better,

00:15:48 ◼   ► but it's not revolutionary in any way.

00:15:51 ◼   ► It doesn't need to be.

00:15:52 ◼   ► The revolution happened 15 months ago.

00:15:55 ◼   ► It was pretty great, and this is still pretty great.

00:15:57 ◼   ► - I would say Apple pulled a bit of a magic trick on me

00:16:00 ◼   ► with the Pro and Max chip, right?

00:16:02 ◼   ► Because the M1 to the M2 is about 12% faster, right?

00:16:07 ◼   ► Like I remember when the M2,

00:16:09 ◼   ► like the straight up M2 MacBooks came out.

00:16:12 ◼   ► - Yeah. - MacBook Airs.

00:16:13 ◼   ► It was like, oh, this is a little bit faster,

00:16:16 ◼   ► but it's not like, you know, I remember at the time

00:16:18 ◼   ► we were saying like, oh okay, like,

00:16:20 ◼   ► maybe that's what this is gonna be like,

00:16:22 ◼   ► it's a little bit faster, you know,

00:16:24 ◼   ► but the way that they tricked us is,

00:16:26 ◼   ► they just put more cores in than they did last time.

00:16:29 ◼   ► And so now you get 20 to 40% faster on some tasks,

00:16:33 ◼   ► depending on the task, I thought it was very smart,

00:16:35 ◼   ► and it surprised me, the difference.

00:16:37 ◼   ► I was expecting a similar from the like M1 Pro to M2 Pro

00:16:42 ◼   ► that we got M1 to M2, but it's more than that.

00:16:44 ◼   ► - An M1 core is about 1700 Geekbench

00:16:47 ◼   ► and an M2 core is about 1900.

00:16:49 ◼   ► So that's 12%.

00:16:50 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:16:51 ◼   ► - And that's true through everything

00:16:55 ◼   ► because an M1 core and an M2 core,

00:16:57 ◼   ► they are what they are, right?

00:16:59 ◼   ► Like it's just core count 'cause they did,

00:17:02 ◼   ► that's one of the interesting things they did with this

00:17:04 ◼   ► is they did four of these efficiency cores,

00:17:09 ◼   ► and then you get six or eight of the performance cores.

00:17:14 ◼   ► - P cores and E cores, there's upgrade in snow,

00:17:16 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

00:17:16 ◼   ► - So the four means that you're gonna get,

00:17:21 ◼   ► and battery life we can talk about,

00:17:23 ◼   ► 'cause battery life is so complicated,

00:17:24 ◼   ► but I did manage to drain the battery in two and a half hours.

00:17:28 ◼   ► But here's the thing, having those four efficiency cores

00:17:32 ◼   ► means that most of the work you do on this Mac

00:17:37 ◼   ► is not gonna run the performance cores ever, right?

00:17:42 ◼   ► 'Cause it won't need to,

00:17:44 ◼   ► which means that that's why it gets really good battery life

00:17:48 ◼   ► in regular use is because if you're not stressing it out,

00:17:52 ◼   ► it's just sitting there going,

00:17:53 ◼   ► boop-a-doop-a-doop-a-doop with its four cores,

00:17:56 ◼   ► a quad core processor that's pretty fast.

00:17:59 ◼   ► It's not a performance fast,

00:18:02 ◼   ► but it's pretty fast and very low energy.

00:18:05 ◼   ► And so anytime you need more, it's not gonna feel slow.

00:18:09 ◼   ► It will send something to the performance cores,

00:18:12 ◼   ► but having four efficiency cores means

00:18:16 ◼   ► that it could do a lot before it even breaks a sweat.

00:18:19 ◼   ► And that is where the battery life is coming from.

00:18:21 ◼   ► And then yes, there's this cumulative effect that happens.

00:18:24 ◼   ► It's not one-to-one, you don't add a second core and double

00:18:27 ◼   ► and then add a third core and fourth core,

00:18:29 ◼   ► and then it's quadruple.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Like it doesn't work quite like that.

00:18:32 ◼   ► it's not quite that efficient.

00:18:34 ◼   ► But yeah, every core that gets added,

00:18:36 ◼   ► especially every performance core that gets added

00:18:38 ◼   ► or every GPU core that gets added makes it that much faster.

00:18:42 ◼   ► So if you've got 32 GPU cores, it's that fast.

00:18:46 ◼   ► And if you've got 38 GPU cores, it's that fast.

00:18:49 ◼   ► And that's just, this is how I was talking to Dan Morin

00:18:53 ◼   ► about this on the Six Colors Podcast for members.

00:18:55 ◼   ► And we were talking about how we've swapped

00:19:00 ◼   ► kind of like one complexity for another

00:19:02 ◼   ► 'cause it used to be like i3, i5, i7, megahertz,

00:19:05 ◼   ► all the clock speed of the Intel processors, all that stuff.

00:19:09 ◼   ► And now we don't have that.

00:19:11 ◼   ► Apple doesn't talk about speed with M1 and M2 at all,

00:19:15 ◼   ► but there are these core variations, right?

00:19:18 ◼   ► Like the low-end model that's got too few or CPU cores

00:19:22 ◼   ► or the GPU configuration differences that happen.

00:19:27 ◼   ► And it's funny 'cause they have these names,

00:19:30 ◼   ► M2, M2 Pro, M2 Max, but, and they could make it like,

00:19:35 ◼   ► well, they mean something.

00:19:37 ◼   ► M2 means this many cores in this many GPUs.

00:19:39 ◼   ► M2 Pro means this many cores in this many GPUs.

00:19:42 ◼   ► And M2 Max means this many cores in this many GPUs.

00:19:45 ◼   ► But then they do that binning thing where they're like,

00:19:47 ◼   ► "Well, no, not really."

00:19:48 ◼   ► I mean, the M2 Pro starts with this one

00:19:50 ◼   ► with two fewer cores, and then you can pay for more cores

00:19:52 ◼   ► and the GPU cores can be a little bit, or it can be a lot.

00:19:55 ◼   ► And that's where the new complexity is

00:19:57 ◼   ► and the Apple Silicon world is Apple letting you

00:20:00 ◼   ► vary some of that stuff.

00:20:03 ◼   ► But that's the stuff that directly relates to performance.

00:20:05 ◼   ► 'Cause it's all based on just core count,

00:20:07 ◼   ► how many more of these are there?

00:20:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it was just,

00:20:12 ◼   ► this is the thing that I hadn't really conceived of yet,

00:20:16 ◼   ► that they do have some level of flexibility

00:20:19 ◼   ► in how they want these chips to be,

00:20:21 ◼   ► by the amount of cores they decide to put in them.

00:20:25 ◼   ► and they can scale it up or down,

00:20:28 ◼   ► depending on the power of the core itself.

00:20:30 ◼   ► Let's imagine a world where the M3 core on its own

00:20:34 ◼   ► is like 20% faster than the M2.

00:20:36 ◼   ► Well then you don't need to add so many, right?

00:20:39 ◼   ► You don't need to necessarily increase the core count

00:20:42 ◼   ► for the M3 Max to get a significant boost over the M2 Max.

00:20:46 ◼   ► And so they have that flexibility there,

00:20:48 ◼   ► which I guess Apple loves, right?

00:20:50 ◼   ► Because now they were able to make

00:20:52 ◼   ► year-over-year improvement on like revision is like 18 months right like

00:20:57 ◼   ► also since the forms a little less I think they were planning on this being a

00:21:01 ◼   ► 12 month I think so right thing right back in November it would have been 12

00:21:05 ◼   ► or 13 months but but it's a little bit longer yeah that they've basically for

00:21:09 ◼   ► some people have made this a year-over-year desire for upgrading

00:21:14 ◼   ► because they can get their work done with a 20% speed improvement or whatever

00:21:19 ◼   ► So I just think that that's kind of fascinating

00:21:22 ◼   ► that they have those tools available to them now,

00:21:24 ◼   ► which they wouldn't have been able to have before

00:21:26 ◼   ► with Intel.

00:21:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's a very small audience,

00:21:31 ◼   ► but it is important.

00:21:32 ◼   ► - But it's there though, right?

00:21:33 ◼   ► - For whom performance, money is no object,

00:21:35 ◼   ► performance is what matters, right?

00:21:36 ◼   ► And so that's what I, when I was saying,

00:21:38 ◼   ► those are the people who will always pay more

00:21:40 ◼   ► for more performance no matter what,

00:21:42 ◼   ► because it matters either in terms of their time

00:21:44 ◼   ► or in terms of the amount of, you know,

00:21:47 ◼   ► the high end level of their work.

00:21:48 ◼   ► - Sure, that's true.

00:21:50 ◼   ► I think most people who buy this laptop aren't those people,

00:21:52 ◼   ► but those people do exist.

00:21:54 ◼   ► - I liked in your review that you made a big kind of like,

00:21:59 ◼   ► basically half of it, talking about like,

00:22:01 ◼   ► all right, if you're coming from an Intel Mac now,

00:22:03 ◼   ► because you didn't want the first ones of these,

00:22:05 ◼   ► here's what you'll get.

00:22:05 ◼   ► Like, I like that perspective a lot.

00:22:07 ◼   ► Like, I have an M1 Max MacBook Pro.

00:22:11 ◼   ► I'm not gonna upgrade to this, there's no need.

00:22:13 ◼   ► But there are people that will,

00:22:15 ◼   ► and I just think it's interesting

00:22:17 ◼   ► that I wasn't expecting them to do anything

00:22:19 ◼   ► with this machine that would make that a real desire

00:22:23 ◼   ► for people, but there are interesting gains

00:22:26 ◼   ► that you can get from the speed increase that they've got.

00:22:29 ◼   ► But anyway.

00:22:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the memory bandwidth and the fact

00:22:31 ◼   ► that the 92, or 92?

00:22:35 ◼   ► - 96.

00:22:36 ◼   ► - 96 max RAM.

00:22:37 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:22:38 ◼   ► - Like those things are all there,

00:22:39 ◼   ► and those people are there.

00:22:40 ◼   ► I just, I mean, this is the question,

00:22:43 ◼   ► this is why I wrote the three different reviews,

00:22:45 ◼   ► essentially, within my review.

00:22:46 ◼   ► 'cause the question is, who's this for?

00:22:49 ◼   ► And I think Apple wants to show off Apple Silicon

00:22:52 ◼   ► and quite rightly so.

00:22:54 ◼   ► It wants to show off how high-end work

00:22:58 ◼   ► can be done on these things.

00:22:59 ◼   ► And so good for them, right?

00:23:00 ◼   ► Like it's absolutely true.

00:23:02 ◼   ► And if you're chasing performance

00:23:03 ◼   ► and you want the most RAM and the RAM,

00:23:05 ◼   ► the memory bandwidth and the...

00:23:08 ◼   ► They have this thing that they always demo

00:23:11 ◼   ► where it's like, here's a 3D model

00:23:13 ◼   ► that can't be opened on a PC laptop,

00:23:15 ◼   ► but they can open it and work with it pretty fast

00:23:18 ◼   ► on a Mac laptop.

00:23:19 ◼   ► And that's entirely down to the fact that

00:23:21 ◼   ► they have all that RAM

00:23:22 ◼   ► and they have all that GPU performance.

00:23:23 ◼   ► It's like, it's a very impressive demo.

00:23:25 ◼   ► So I want to give them credit for that.

00:23:27 ◼   ► And I know there's an audience out there for that.

00:23:30 ◼   ► That said, I mean, most people who buy this thing

00:23:34 ◼   ► aren't gonna be that audience.

00:23:35 ◼   ► They're not, they're gonna be people.

00:23:38 ◼   ► I mean, we can talk about the psychology

00:23:39 ◼   ► of who buys the MacBook Pro.

00:23:40 ◼   ► 'Cause that was the other,

00:23:41 ◼   ► one of the other sections of my article was,

00:23:44 ◼   ► why would you buy this essentially,

00:23:46 ◼   ► given everything else that's out there?

00:23:48 ◼   ► And there are lots of good reasons, right?

00:23:50 ◼   ► But not everybody who buys it,

00:23:52 ◼   ► most people who buy it are not gonna be,

00:23:53 ◼   ► well, I really need the 96 gigs of RAM

00:23:55 ◼   ► and I really need all those GPU cores.

00:23:58 ◼   ► They're gonna be people who are like,

00:24:00 ◼   ► I want the nicer screen.

00:24:02 ◼   ► I want more ports.

00:24:04 ◼   ► I want more external display configurations.

00:24:07 ◼   ► I hear from those people a lot about

00:24:08 ◼   ► how frustrated they are about the MacBook Air,

00:24:10 ◼   ► not doing multiple external displays.

00:24:13 ◼   ► Like those are the reasons that I think a lot of people

00:24:16 ◼   ► will buy the MacBook Pro or have bought the M1 MacBook Pro.

00:24:21 ◼   ► And those are good reasons too.

00:24:22 ◼   ► I think we could ask ourselves the question,

00:24:26 ◼   ► why Apple made the decisions it did

00:24:30 ◼   ► about some of this stuff to say,

00:24:31 ◼   ► we're gonna wrap all of our GPUs and all of our CPUs

00:24:35 ◼   ► and all of our Pro stuff and our screen

00:24:37 ◼   ► and all the best stuff is gonna go up here

00:24:39 ◼   ► and it's two grand or up.

00:24:42 ◼   ► and we're gonna withhold most of that stuff

00:24:45 ◼   ► from the MacBook Air.

00:24:46 ◼   ► And that's just,

00:24:47 ◼   ► that's how we're differentiating our line.

00:24:50 ◼   ► But that's the decision they made.

00:24:51 ◼   ► And the result is, you know,

00:24:53 ◼   ► you might choose it for performance,

00:24:55 ◼   ► but there are plenty of other reasons

00:24:57 ◼   ► to choose the MacBook Pro.

00:24:58 ◼   ► And I think at this point,

00:24:58 ◼   ► performance across the line is so great,

00:25:01 ◼   ► like even in the air,

00:25:03 ◼   ► that most people who buy a MacBook Pro

00:25:07 ◼   ► are probably buying it for the features

00:25:10 ◼   ► that aren't raw speed,

00:25:12 ◼   ► which is just, I think that's interesting.

00:25:14 ◼   ► - So you wrote that piece before, right,

00:25:17 ◼   ► where you referenced the first review

00:25:19 ◼   ► and you said like Mac Pro in your backpack kind of thing.

00:25:23 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:25:23 ◼   ► - And I think we're back in that situation again

00:25:26 ◼   ► because I was actually excited

00:25:28 ◼   ► and then also kind of surprised

00:25:31 ◼   ► that the MacBook Pro with an M2 Max

00:25:34 ◼   ► beats out the M1 Max Max Studio, right,

00:25:38 ◼   ► in basically every test you put it through

00:25:42 ◼   ► based on your charts.

00:25:43 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:25:44 ◼   ► - I just found that kind of interesting because,

00:25:48 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know why,

00:25:49 ◼   ► but there's just something about,

00:25:50 ◼   ► well, if you built this machine and it sits on a desk

00:25:53 ◼   ► and it's not a laptop

00:25:54 ◼   ► and you can do whatever you want with it,

00:25:56 ◼   ► that maybe it would still just have an edge in some way.

00:26:00 ◼   ► And I think about the fans and stuff and like, you know?

00:26:03 ◼   ► - Well, let's be clear here.

00:26:06 ◼   ► The Max Studio Ultra is the fastest Mac around.

00:26:11 ◼   ► But there's also the one that I've got,

00:26:15 ◼   ► which is the Max.

00:26:17 ◼   ► And you can get a Max chip in the MacBook Pro too.

00:26:20 ◼   ► And at that point it's an M2 Max versus an M1 Max.

00:26:23 ◼   ► And if you keep everything else equal,

00:26:25 ◼   ► it's gonna be a little bit faster on the laptop

00:26:27 ◼   ► because it's the newer generation of the chip.

00:26:32 ◼   ► So yeah, I mean, this is,

00:26:35 ◼   ► Mac Pro in your backpack is still a real thing here.

00:26:38 ◼   ► That the power that you can get,

00:26:41 ◼   ► especially if you choose the high-end configuration

00:26:44 ◼   ► of a MacBook Pro, the power, the huge amounts of RAM,

00:26:49 ◼   ► so many GPU cores, like if you're somebody in that market,

00:26:53 ◼   ► that's kind of what we always thought of

00:26:55 ◼   ► as the Mac Pro essentially market.

00:26:58 ◼   ► And it remains the case that at 14 or enormous 16 inch sizes,

00:27:05 ◼   ► you can have what we always used to think of

00:27:08 ◼   ► as Mac Pro power and stick it in a bag

00:27:10 ◼   ► and walk away with it and do work on it on battery.

00:27:13 ◼   ► And Apple always makes this point,

00:27:15 ◼   ► but I think it's a good one that PCs tend to,

00:27:18 ◼   ► the high-performance PCs tend to only be able

00:27:20 ◼   ► to put out that amount of power when plugged in.

00:27:23 ◼   ► Whereas the Mac laptop will do it

00:27:25 ◼   ► whether it's plugged in or not.

00:27:27 ◼   ► So full power, even if you're like in your backyard

00:27:31 ◼   ► in a chair doing your whatever it is

00:27:33 ◼   ► that requires that amount of RAM and that amount of GPU,

00:27:36 ◼   ► your 3D modeling or whatever.

00:27:38 ◼   ► It's a nice day outside and you're working from home

00:27:40 ◼   ► and you've decided to go in the backyard

00:27:42 ◼   ► and take your MacBook Pro with you.

00:27:44 ◼   ► And you've got that Mac Pro power sitting there.

00:27:47 ◼   ► It's absolutely the case and it's quite remarkable.

00:27:51 ◼   ► And that's why I think that Apple is right to make hay

00:27:55 ◼   ► with the super high-end applications of this thing,

00:27:58 ◼   ► even though it's mostly,

00:28:00 ◼   ► I guess we could say mostly aspirational

00:28:02 ◼   ► for the vast number of people who will buy it.

00:28:06 ◼   ► It still feels good, right?

00:28:07 ◼   ► To know that like, the thing I'm getting

00:28:09 ◼   ► has no limits essentially,

00:28:10 ◼   ► even though I'm not gonna push the limits.

00:28:12 ◼   ► Like this is what the pros can use too,

00:28:14 ◼   ► and it's the same tool.

00:28:15 ◼   ► And that's always been an aspect of buying,

00:28:19 ◼   ► you know, high-end Apple products

00:28:21 ◼   ► if you're not a high-end user.

00:28:23 ◼   ► - So Apple quote,

00:28:23 ◼   ► "This is the best battery life in any laptop ever."

00:28:26 ◼   ► I think he got like an extra hour for both Pro and Max.

00:28:30 ◼   ► I think I heard, you can correct me if I'm wrong,

00:28:33 ◼   ► but you said you drained it in two hours?

00:28:35 ◼   ► - It's about two and a half, two and a half hours.

00:28:37 ◼   ► I went from full to empty.

00:28:39 ◼   ► I ran all the CPU cores at 100%.

00:28:43 ◼   ► - Okay, how do you do that?

00:28:45 ◼   ► - I used Xcode benchmark.

00:28:49 ◼   ► I could have used anything,

00:28:50 ◼   ► but Xcode benchmark is a nice benchmark test

00:28:53 ◼   ► that tests Xcode compile.

00:28:56 ◼   ► And there's a Unix command you can use

00:29:01 ◼   ► that is, what is it, repeat?

00:29:05 ◼   ► Something like that, where you basically,

00:29:07 ◼   ► when it's done, do it again.

00:29:08 ◼   ► And then, so I just ran it.

00:29:11 ◼   ► And I had an activity monitor open,

00:29:14 ◼   ► and all the cores were full CPU cores.

00:29:18 ◼   ► And that was enough to kill it in two and a half hours.

00:29:21 ◼   ► But again, the point is, this is not scandalous.

00:29:24 ◼   ► The point here is that if you take another computer

00:29:27 ◼   ► and do that to it, and I didn't,

00:29:29 ◼   ► so I don't have a comparison here,

00:29:30 ◼   ► it will kill it a lot faster than that.

00:29:32 ◼   ► That's literally, nobody works like that.

00:29:34 ◼   ► Nobody has 100% CPU on all cores at all times on a laptop.

00:29:39 ◼   ► And if they do, their laptop doesn't last two

00:29:43 ◼   ► and a half hours.

00:29:44 ◼   ► But I wanted to make that point too,

00:29:46 ◼   ► that like these are the extremes.

00:29:48 ◼   ► I didn't hit the GPUs.

00:29:48 ◼   ► The GPUs probably would have killed it even faster.

00:29:51 ◼   ► And if I'd been able to flood both of them,

00:29:53 ◼   ► it would have killed it even faster than that.

00:29:55 ◼   ► But the point here is when Apple quotes 22 hours,

00:29:59 ◼   ► they're quoting for sitting in the TV app,

00:30:01 ◼   ► watching a movie that's using one of their hardware decoders

00:30:05 ◼   ► to decode it and play it.

00:30:07 ◼   ► And as a result,

00:30:09 ◼   ► almost nothing else is happening on that system.

00:30:11 ◼   ► When they quote 14 hours or 16 hours of wireless web,

00:30:15 ◼   ► they're quoting a scripted test where they're using Safari

00:30:19 ◼   ► to load a bunch of websites and click around and scroll

00:30:22 ◼   ► and then click around again and all of that.

00:30:24 ◼   ► And that's automated, which is great.

00:30:26 ◼   ► But again, it is a, I would say very non-intensive test.

00:30:31 ◼   ► It's more intense than watching a video

00:30:34 ◼   ► and not doing anything else.

00:30:35 ◼   ► But again, you can see it just dropped from 22 to 16

00:30:39 ◼   ► or 20 to 14 or whatever their numbers are.

00:30:42 ◼   ► But like you lose a lot just there.

00:30:44 ◼   ► So the truth is everybody's profile is different.

00:30:47 ◼   ► Everybody's using different apps to do different things

00:30:50 ◼   ► with, and keeping in mind that when you're sitting there

00:30:53 ◼   ► staring at your screen and nothing is happening

00:30:55 ◼   ► and you're not rendering something or whatever,

00:30:58 ◼   ► it's crashing everything to zero, right?

00:31:01 ◼   ► It's like, all the performance cores go off,

00:31:04 ◼   ► you know, the efficiency cores start to go off

00:31:07 ◼   ► because there's nothing happening

00:31:08 ◼   ► and your battery use goes way down when that happens too.

00:31:12 ◼   ► So it becomes a very difficult to say,

00:31:15 ◼   ► here's what your battery is in this thing,

00:31:18 ◼   ► here's what you're gonna get.

00:31:19 ◼   ► it will be somewhere between 22 and two and a half hours,

00:31:24 ◼   ► depending on, or probably two hours or an hour and a half,

00:31:27 ◼   ► depending if I'd killed it in a different way.

00:31:29 ◼   ► And that's just, you know, again,

00:31:30 ◼   ► the point here is that based on,

00:31:32 ◼   ► by holding those tests that Apple does level,

00:31:36 ◼   ► Apple's able to say,

00:31:37 ◼   ► to express that this one has more battery power.

00:31:41 ◼   ► And that is a function of both its battery life

00:31:43 ◼   ► and the efficiency of its chip

00:31:44 ◼   ► and the efficiency of the software

00:31:46 ◼   ► to drive that chip efficiency even further

00:31:49 ◼   ► by being really smart.

00:31:51 ◼   ► I suspect that the four efficiency cores

00:31:54 ◼   ► are a part of this.

00:31:55 ◼   ► Like I said at the beginning of this whole conversation,

00:31:57 ◼   ► like I think that's gonna be a big part of it

00:31:59 ◼   ► just because so much of what we do

00:32:03 ◼   ► is not pushing performance.

00:32:06 ◼   ► And so having four cores that can just do stuff

00:32:08 ◼   ► with very little effort, very little energy expended

00:32:12 ◼   ► is a big win.

00:32:15 ◼   ► But again, I didn't do one of those things.

00:32:17 ◼   ► I didn't have time to do anything

00:32:18 ◼   ► other than run the battery killing test.

00:32:20 ◼   ► But it does have an enormous battery.

00:32:24 ◼   ► And if you get the 16-inch, it's even more enormous.

00:32:28 ◼   ► And that's why it's so big and so heavy.

00:32:29 ◼   ► But it's also a huge battery.

00:32:32 ◼   ► And if you are on a lot of airplanes

00:32:34 ◼   ► or out in the desert at a video shoot or something,

00:32:37 ◼   ► then it's gonna be valuable for you to have it.

00:32:40 ◼   ► - The exact numbers, I don't know how useful they are,

00:32:43 ◼   ► right, for those reasons.

00:32:44 ◼   ► but just knowing that it's more than the last one,

00:32:48 ◼   ► is, you know, that's kind of what you really need to know.

00:32:50 ◼   ► Right, like, oh that's great, like there's more.

00:32:52 ◼   ► You know, like I already like my battery life

00:32:54 ◼   ► and my laptop, now there's more of it?

00:32:56 ◼   ► Awesome, always want more of it.

00:32:57 ◼   ► There are no colors still.

00:33:00 ◼   ► Still just silver and darker silver.

00:33:04 ◼   ► No midnight, no nothing like that.

00:33:06 ◼   ► I just feel like we need to mention it,

00:33:07 ◼   ► you know, something we care about.

00:33:09 ◼   ► - No colors in professional-ism.

00:33:12 ◼   ► Nope.

00:33:14 ◼   ► very impressive machine, right?

00:33:17 ◼   ► As you rightly pointed out,

00:33:18 ◼   ► these were already great going into it

00:33:20 ◼   ► and now it's even faster than it was before.

00:33:22 ◼   ► Like there's no complaints here.

00:33:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's spectacular.

00:33:27 ◼   ► As somebody who has chosen,

00:33:31 ◼   ► I mean, I have a Mac studio and a MacBook Air, right?

00:33:33 ◼   ► So I've made both of these choices

00:33:34 ◼   ► and I see the value in both of them.

00:33:36 ◼   ► I would say I love the M2 MacBook Air.

00:33:38 ◼   ► I think it's a great value.

00:33:40 ◼   ► I think that it's not quite half the price

00:33:42 ◼   ► 'cause that's the M1,

00:33:44 ◼   ► But I think the MacBook Air is the best Mac

00:33:48 ◼   ► for most people to buy.

00:33:49 ◼   ► I really do.

00:33:51 ◼   ► But I detail in the article,

00:33:54 ◼   ► I mean, and we've talked about it here,

00:33:55 ◼   ► there are lots of reasons to get a MacBook Pro.

00:33:57 ◼   ► And the funny thing I think is that it's enormous,

00:34:01 ◼   ► truly enormous power

00:34:04 ◼   ► is maybe not the most important one for most people.

00:34:09 ◼   ► It's all the rest, right?

00:34:12 ◼   ► It's the battery and the ports and the external,

00:34:17 ◼   ► and that beautiful screen, right?

00:34:21 ◼   ► Like those are all the other reasons that you get it.

00:34:23 ◼   ► And I think those are all perfectly reasonable reasons.

00:34:25 ◼   ► Plus it's Mac Pro power if you wanna go down that path.

00:34:29 ◼   ► But at the same time, when then I opened my MacBook Air up,

00:34:34 ◼   ► I was like, oh, what a relief.

00:34:36 ◼   ► And I know it's slower, but I do the kind of work

00:34:39 ◼   ► where I can stress a computer out.

00:34:42 ◼   ► That's why I use a Mac studio.

00:34:44 ◼   ► I've got a lot of audio and video stuff that I do

00:34:46 ◼   ► that having the extra power is great.

00:34:49 ◼   ► But that said, I'm not working in an environment

00:34:52 ◼   ► like some people are where a MacBook Air

00:34:55 ◼   ► is just not gonna be able to do it, right?

00:34:58 ◼   ► It's just gonna be slower, right?

00:34:59 ◼   ► All the video stuff I do, all the audio stuff I do

00:35:02 ◼   ► will just be slower on a MacBook Air,

00:35:05 ◼   ► but I could still do it.

00:35:06 ◼   ► So I can have my primary computer be a MacBook Air

00:35:08 ◼   ► if I wanted to and plug it into my studio display,

00:35:12 ◼   ► what I would lose is the speed of every time I do a,

00:35:15 ◼   ► you know, isotope RX, D reverb or D noise that takes,

00:35:20 ◼   ► you know, it would take whatever, four times as long,

00:35:23 ◼   ► or who knows, a lot longer to do it on the MacBook Air

00:35:26 ◼   ► than it would to do it on the Mac studio.

00:35:28 ◼   ► But my point is that like,

00:35:31 ◼   ► most people don't even do what I do.

00:35:34 ◼   ► And so I think that the Air is, in terms of like,

00:35:38 ◼   ► I have friends who call me and they're like,

00:35:40 ◼   ► "My kid is buying a laptop and what should they buy?"

00:35:43 ◼   ► And one of the fears that comes up a lot is,

00:35:46 ◼   ► "Is this not gonna be capable

00:35:48 ◼   ► "of doing what they need to do?"

00:35:49 ◼   ► There still is a fear out there that like,

00:35:52 ◼   ► the cheapest Mac laptop is not gonna be powerful enough

00:35:57 ◼   ► for their kid to do whatever they wanna do.

00:35:59 ◼   ► It's gonna be kind of a loser system.

00:36:01 ◼   ► And there were eras when that was more true.

00:36:04 ◼   ► And that's why I think about it in these terms,

00:36:06 ◼   ► because what I tell them now is, no, it's not a problem.

00:36:11 ◼   ► Like the 999 M1 MacBook Air will be more power

00:36:17 ◼   ► than your kid is ever gonna need.

00:36:20 ◼   ► And yes, I would know if their kid was a 3D artist

00:36:24 ◼   ► and their employer would probably buy them

00:36:26 ◼   ► that computer for them.

00:36:28 ◼   ► But like, you see what I mean?

00:36:29 ◼   ► Like there was a time when you might have to worry

00:36:31 ◼   ► that the cheap Mac was just not, you know,

00:36:34 ◼   ► you're so compromised,

00:36:35 ◼   ► It was just not gonna do what you wanted it to do.

00:36:37 ◼   ► And we have left that, especially with Apple Silicon,

00:36:40 ◼   ► we have left that era behind.

00:36:42 ◼   ► So that's not a reason to get a MacBook Pro.

00:36:45 ◼   ► The reason to get a MacBook Pro is, yeah,

00:36:47 ◼   ► you need that power or you need,

00:36:48 ◼   ► like, I think I'm not gonna blame you.

00:36:50 ◼   ► I'm not gonna judge anybody, right?

00:36:52 ◼   ► But I'm especially not gonna judge you if you said,

00:36:53 ◼   ► "Well, I don't really need the power,

00:36:55 ◼   ► "but I want that screen,

00:36:56 ◼   ► "and I'm willing to pay $2,000 to get that screen."

00:36:58 ◼   ► It's like, I totally get it.

00:37:00 ◼   ► The screen is amazing.

00:37:02 ◼   ► It is absolutely better than the one in the MacBook Air.

00:37:05 ◼   ► it looks great, you got those extra ports, that's super convenient, you want to attach your laptop

00:37:12 ◼   ► to two external displays on your desk, all of these are also great reasons. This episode is

00:37:18 ◼   ► brought to you in part by Electric. Turning a small business into a business empire takes a

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00:39:01 ◼   ► Let's talk about the Mac Mini now then.

00:39:06 ◼   ► The Macbook Pro wasn't the only new machine.

00:39:08 ◼   ► There is a new Mac Mini as well which features both M2 and M2 Pro as configurations.

00:39:15 ◼   ► Your partner in crime Six Colors, Dan Morin, had got a review of the M2 Mac Mini and has

00:39:21 ◼   ► written a review and published it as well.

00:39:24 ◼   ► I like that Dan makes the argument that this Mac Mini is really kind of two products where

00:39:32 ◼   ► it is both the base level, I think very affordable and capable M2 machine which is available

00:39:39 ◼   ► is really compatible for all kinds of work similar to how you were talking about the

00:39:43 ◼   ► MacBook Air right like it is the a machine for whoever has a monitor already right like

00:39:49 ◼   ► this would do a great job for you. But then you add the M2 Pro, which is a mid-range prosumer

00:39:55 ◼   ► machine that can go that extra mile and I think kind of starts bumping up against the

00:40:00 ◼   ► current studio as well, right? It's like a really fascinating take on this computer being

00:40:05 ◼   ► quite different from each other depending on the spec that you get.

00:40:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't, I wouldn't say bump up. I feel like it slides in. Okay. Actually, I think,

00:40:13 ◼   ► I think it's, the Apple's vision here has been revealed

00:40:18 ◼   ► a little bit, right?

00:40:19 ◼   ► Which is, there are, it's not two computers, Myke, it's four.

00:40:24 ◼   ► - Whoa, so many computers.

00:40:26 ◼   ► - It's four computers.

00:40:28 ◼   ► It's the M2 Mac Mini, the M2 Pro Mac Mini,

00:40:32 ◼   ► the M2 Max Max Studio, or M1 Max Max Studio,

00:40:35 ◼   ► and the M1 Ultra Max Studio.

00:40:36 ◼   ► I feel like if you look at it as four,

00:40:39 ◼   ► they're all kind of, they all have their prices

00:40:41 ◼   ► and their kind of performance profiles.

00:40:43 ◼   ► And they really are four different computers.

00:40:46 ◼   ► So the Mac mini we're talking about

00:40:47 ◼   ► is one different computer, but it's really two

00:40:49 ◼   ► because it's got that, you know, 599 M2 model.

00:40:53 ◼   ► And then you go up to whatever it is 1299, 1399.

00:40:56 ◼   ► I didn't write the review.

00:40:57 ◼   ► I don't know 1299.

00:40:59 ◼   ► - A million?

00:40:59 ◼   ► - Then you get the M1 Pro or M2 Pro

00:41:05 ◼   ► which is our first pro desktop,

00:41:06 ◼   ► pro M whatever pro on a desktop system.

00:41:10 ◼   ► We've only really had the M1 iMac

00:41:12 ◼   ► and then the Mac Studio with Macs and Ultra.

00:41:16 ◼   ► And so it fits this little kind of like,

00:41:18 ◼   ► Apple has obviously M2, M2 Pro, M2 or M1,

00:41:23 ◼   ► Macs, these names are so hard.

00:41:25 ◼   ► Obviously M whatever no name, M whatever Pro,

00:41:30 ◼   ► M whatever Macs and M whatever Ultra means something to Apple

00:41:36 ◼   ► And with these two/four products now,

00:41:41 ◼   ► you've got all of them in a compact desktop.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And I think that's meaningful.

00:41:47 ◼   ► And if you look at the prices,

00:41:49 ◼   ► Mac Studio is a premium over the Mac Mini

00:41:51 ◼   ► at the high end still,

00:41:53 ◼   ► because you're going up to Macs from Pro.

00:41:58 ◼   ► And so you spend an extra several hundred dollars

00:42:01 ◼   ► to get up there.

00:42:02 ◼   ► - And you can go wild, right?

00:42:04 ◼   ► - You can spec one of these Mac Minis out to $4,500

00:42:08 ◼   ► if you want to. - Yeah, but you can spec,

00:42:09 ◼   ► right, which is true, and I see those arguments sometimes,

00:42:11 ◼   ► and I'm like, well, yeah, but have you seen

00:42:13 ◼   ► what you can spec a Mac Studio out to, right?

00:42:15 ◼   ► Like if we're specing them up, they both go up.

00:42:18 ◼   ► It's not like the Mac Mini shoots past the Mac Studio.

00:42:21 ◼   ► I think that's like, right, if you're like,

00:42:22 ◼   ► I have to have two terabyte internal,

00:42:24 ◼   ► then the prices you're comparing between the two

00:42:26 ◼   ► are very different prices, but they still are separate

00:42:30 ◼   ► because one of them has got a Pro processor

00:42:32 ◼   ► and one of them's got the max processor.

00:42:34 ◼   ► I mean, how many people really need a Mac's processor

00:42:38 ◼   ► over a Pro processor, I think is a good argument to make.

00:42:41 ◼   ► Like, would I, if they had offered the Mac Studio

00:42:46 ◼   ► and the Mac Mini side-by-side last year,

00:42:51 ◼   ► would I have bought a Mac Studio?

00:42:53 ◼   ► Maybe, but I certainly would have done what Dan is doing,

00:42:58 ◼   ► which is seriously considering whether the Pro chip

00:43:03 ◼   ► is plenty for me, and it probably would be.

00:43:07 ◼   ► But I mean, I'm happy to have a Max

00:43:10 ◼   ► because it's just, you know,

00:43:12 ◼   ► it's gonna serve me well for a long time.

00:43:14 ◼   ► But in terms of what I do day to day,

00:43:15 ◼   ► Pro probably would have been just fine.

00:43:18 ◼   ► - So where I'm looking at the charts again here.

00:43:20 ◼   ► So the Mac Mini with the M2 Pro,

00:43:24 ◼   ► it does beat out the Max Studio.

00:43:29 ◼   ► I'm assuming this is your Max Studio, right?

00:43:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's my max studio.

00:43:33 ◼   ► - In like a couple of things, I think, what is it GPU,

00:43:36 ◼   ► where it kind of starts to fall down, but in CPU tasks.

00:43:40 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, 19 GPU cores versus 32 GPU cores, it's,

00:43:44 ◼   ► you know.

00:43:44 ◼   ► - It's not gonna have much of a competition.

00:43:47 ◼   ► So I'm saying like, it's interesting though, right?

00:43:49 ◼   ► Like you could, I mean, considering the type of work

00:43:53 ◼   ► that you're doing.

00:43:55 ◼   ► - Exactly, I'm not using those GPU cores, am I?

00:43:57 ◼   ► - No, you're not, you're not doing that.

00:43:59 ◼   ► So the difference is, so my M1 Max

00:44:01 ◼   ► has eight performance cores and the Mac Mini Pro,

00:44:05 ◼   ► you can configure it to have eight performance cores

00:44:08 ◼   ► and then the four efficiency cores

00:44:09 ◼   ► instead of the two on my studio.

00:44:12 ◼   ► So, yeah, I mean, that's a good example

00:44:15 ◼   ► where an M2 Pro, like the one Dan tested,

00:44:19 ◼   ► it's fast, it's Geekbench CPU multi-core score

00:44:23 ◼   ► is faster than my Mac studio, absolutely.

00:44:26 ◼   ► I want to make a claim here and I want to test it against your knowledge.

00:44:32 ◼   ► I think the Mac Mini, the standard M2 Mac Mini might be the best value Apple has ever

00:44:39 ◼   ► offered in a Mac.

00:44:41 ◼   ► They dropped the price by $100 from the M1 Mini and it's faster.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Made it more powerful and I kind of can't believe the price of it.

00:44:55 ◼   ► very surprising to me. You get an 8 core CPU, 10 core GPU, 8 gigabytes of RAM, 256 gigabytes

00:45:03 ◼   ► of storage. Like yeah, the RAM and storage aren't great, but it's $600.

00:45:08 ◼   ► Yeah. Keeping in mind, somebody did the calculation like the original Mac Mini that was $4.99

00:45:15 ◼   ► like 750 in today's dollars. So it's, it may be, it may be pound for pound, dollar for

00:45:24 ◼   ► processor, dollar for Geekbench score. Somebody could do that math by the way. But it's not

00:45:30 ◼   ► me today. That it might be the best deal that they've ever done. It's entirely possible.

00:45:36 ◼   ► Like, I, I am kind of blown away by it. Like I wanted to make sure we mentioned it because

00:45:40 ◼   ► you know, I spend a lot of time talking about how things get more expensive all the time,

00:45:43 ◼   ► But this is not only is it so good they made it cheaper and if you're in education it's $4.99.

00:45:50 ◼   ► Right like this is a great computer for that money like a truly excellent machine that can be dropped

00:45:58 ◼   ► into a bunch of scenarios right like it's you know the Mac Mini was created to try and get people to

00:46:05 ◼   ► switch from Windows right like that was its thing. Initial yeah. Yeah bring your own keyboard monitor

00:46:11 ◼   ► or a mouse, is that what it was?

00:46:13 ◼   ► Was that screen and mouse?

00:46:15 ◼   ► - Display, keyboard and mouse, yeah.

00:46:17 ◼   ► - And I feel like this might be trying to do that again.

00:46:22 ◼   ► The Apple Silicon transition,

00:46:25 ◼   ► I think is turning a lot of heads, right?

00:46:27 ◼   ► Like the power and it's like interesting

00:46:29 ◼   ► and Apple Silicon is cool, right?

00:46:30 ◼   ► Like I see it a lot in YouTubers, right?

00:46:32 ◼   ► Like people talk about it a lot.

00:46:33 ◼   ► They even started their fake keynote video

00:46:35 ◼   ► with a bunch of content creators,

00:46:37 ◼   ► including friend of the show, Austin Evans, right?

00:46:38 ◼   ► Like they put a bunch of clips in.

00:46:41 ◼   ► of like people are talking about the Apple Silicon chips.

00:46:44 ◼   ► These are a big deal in tech right now.

00:46:47 ◼   ► So it's like, why not make a really competitive

00:46:49 ◼   ► entry-level Mac again, that can be just be dropped

00:46:52 ◼   ► into an existing PC setting?

00:46:54 ◼   ► And now you've got this great value Mac mini to do that.

00:46:57 ◼   ► I think it's really interesting.

00:46:58 ◼   ► And I do wonder if that played any hand

00:47:01 ◼   ► in the decisions that they made in this machine.

00:47:04 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:47:06 ◼   ► - Because they didn't change anything on it.

00:47:07 ◼   ► Design's the same.

00:47:08 ◼   ► They didn't, as Dan points out,

00:47:10 ◼   ► They didn't put any ports on the front or anything like that which is a shame.

00:47:14 ◼   ► Because the Max Studio got those ports on the front which would have been lovely.

00:47:18 ◼   ► The colors, they actually reduced this.

00:47:20 ◼   ► There's less colors now.

00:47:22 ◼   ► It's just silver.

00:47:23 ◼   ► There's no space grey.

00:47:25 ◼   ► I'm surprised that the overall size of the thing, the overall form factor is basically

00:47:32 ◼   ► the same.

00:47:33 ◼   ► I think there's some small changes in the physical size but it still looks like, put

00:47:38 ◼   ► those two things next to each other.

00:47:40 ◼   ► It just looks like a Mac Mini.

00:47:43 ◼   ► I guess that's part of why they can make it cheap.

00:47:45 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:47:46 ◼   ► I think it is.

00:47:47 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a MacBook Air stuck inside a Mac Mini enclosure.

00:47:50 ◼   ► I haven't given a lot of thought to the M2 base Mac Mini because it is just, yeah, I'm

00:47:55 ◼   ► glad it exists.

00:47:56 ◼   ► It's kind of amazing that they refreshed it.

00:47:59 ◼   ► And everything I said about the MacBook Air goes for the Mac Mini, right?

00:48:02 ◼   ► It's literally the same, except not a laptop, but like performance wise, it's exactly the

00:48:06 ◼   ► same.

00:48:07 ◼   ► fan so it'll it'll be it'll get keep cooler longer and to run a little bit

00:48:12 ◼   ► faster in the long run if you're really extending it out it's a lot of computer

00:48:16 ◼   ► in a pretty low price and a little small container and a little bit low price

00:48:21 ◼   ► yeah Dan did a lot of work and couldn't get the fan to go and I appreciated the

00:48:26 ◼   ► the lengths that he went to to putting his Apple watch up to the thing to see

00:48:30 ◼   ► if the decibels changed he installed an app like a fan monitoring app to make

00:48:35 ◼   ► sure there was in fact a fan inside. It seems like you couldn't get this fan to go. Which

00:48:40 ◼   ► I don't know why but I feel like I have a personal vendetta against the fan inside of

00:48:44 ◼   ► the Max Studio. I don't know. I don't know why it bothers me but like it bothers me that

00:48:48 ◼   ► it's in there and it's apparently from people I know including you and Steven is running

00:48:52 ◼   ► all the time the fan inside of the Max Studio. And there were a bunch of other machines that

00:48:57 ◼   ► this doesn't happen. So like I'm really intrigued as to why it does what it doesn't why it seems

00:49:03 ◼   ► to have so much headroom for cooling compared to upper max.

00:49:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I use it every day and I don't care.

00:49:12 ◼   ► So I'm not saying you should care.

00:49:14 ◼   ► Well, I'm just saying it's funny that you don't use it and have a problem with it and

00:49:19 ◼   ► I do and I don't but...

00:49:20 ◼   ► Well, my problem, it's not like a problem.

00:49:22 ◼   ► It's like it is a curiosity to me that I feel like I don't have an answer for.

00:49:26 ◼   ► - It is mysterious that it seems to always run

00:49:29 ◼   ► and that it has the ability to cool an M1 ultra configuration

00:49:34 ◼   ► but even if you get the cheapest M1 max configuration,

00:49:41 ◼   ► the fan still runs.

00:49:43 ◼   ► I think that the cooling is different in the two units too.

00:49:46 ◼   ► So it's like that M1 max one with the fan noise,

00:49:49 ◼   ► it's strange, right?

00:49:51 ◼   ► Like, why is it always making noise?

00:49:56 ◼   ► - I find that, I just find that strange.

00:49:58 ◼   ► Like, it's not like I feel like they shouldn't do it,

00:50:00 ◼   ► but like, I just, I feel like at the moment,

00:50:02 ◼   ► there doesn't really seem to be an answer.

00:50:03 ◼   ► Like, we wanted this at a time.

00:50:05 ◼   ► Maybe this will make sense in like three years, right?

00:50:08 ◼   ► The ultra-- - Or maybe never.

00:50:09 ◼   ► - So bananas, or maybe never.

00:50:12 ◼   ► - Maybe never, but I did ask Dan about noise.

00:50:16 ◼   ► He was like, there isn't any, so, you know, that is,

00:50:20 ◼   ► And that's the case with that laptop too.

00:50:23 ◼   ► The only time I could get the fans to turn on

00:50:25 ◼   ► on the MacBook Pro is when I ran graphics tests.

00:50:29 ◼   ► - Right.

00:50:29 ◼   ► - CPU at a hundred percent for two and a half hours,

00:50:33 ◼   ► it got a little warm, fans never came on.

00:50:37 ◼   ► Or at least, well, I can't say that.

00:50:39 ◼   ► Fans were never audible.

00:50:40 ◼   ► I can say that.

00:50:43 ◼   ► The GPU test, the fans were audible.

00:50:46 ◼   ► Very, very much audible.

00:50:47 ◼   ► 'Cause the GPUs are the ones that get really hot.

00:50:49 ◼   ► the CPU's don't get so hot.

00:50:51 ◼   ► The GPU is really burning up

00:50:53 ◼   ► and they're the ones who need the cooling.

00:50:55 ◼   ► - And I love the Apple Silicon era.

00:50:57 ◼   ► It's great.

00:50:59 ◼   ► - It's pretty wild, right?

00:51:00 ◼   ► I mean, we will talk later in the show

00:51:04 ◼   ► about what might be next for the Apple Silicon era

00:51:06 ◼   ► 'cause we're always looking ahead.

00:51:09 ◼   ► But this has given us, with the Pro and the Max,

00:51:12 ◼   ► I mean, the lesson we learned here

00:51:13 ◼   ► with both of these computers is that

00:51:17 ◼   ► with M2 Apple's really just sort of like

00:51:20 ◼   ► pushing it forward a bit.

00:51:21 ◼   ► It's not, nor should we expect that there'll be a revolution

00:51:25 ◼   ► in the second generation, right?

00:51:26 ◼   ► That doesn't happen.

00:51:28 ◼   ► But everything got pushed forward

00:51:30 ◼   ► and there were little tweaks here and there,

00:51:31 ◼   ► but Apple also made a bunch of design decisions in the M1

00:51:34 ◼   ► that essentially carried forward to the M2.

00:51:36 ◼   ► So when we shift gears in a little bit

00:51:41 ◼   ► and talk about the future,

00:51:43 ◼   ► that's one of the things to think about is like,

00:51:47 ◼   ► will there be a more, at some point there will be more

00:51:50 ◼   ► dramatic change, I think, in things that Apple throws

00:51:53 ◼   ► into the M3 or M4 or M5, whatever.

00:51:57 ◼   ► But M2 is really just about keeping it going,

00:52:00 ◼   ► keeping the trains running,

00:52:02 ◼   ► getting these out there refreshed,

00:52:05 ◼   ► which is, again, very admirable.

00:52:07 ◼   ► I love that they were originally planning on this

00:52:10 ◼   ► basically being a year.

00:52:11 ◼   ► It's a little bit more than that, it turns out,

00:52:13 ◼   ► but not a lot more.

00:52:14 ◼   ► Here's a faster MacBook Pro,

00:52:16 ◼   ► and everybody who was sitting on the fence saying,

00:52:18 ◼   ► I can't justify buying the M1 MacBook Pro,

00:52:20 ◼   ► I still have this Intel MacBook Pro,

00:52:22 ◼   ► now is another, you have another opportunity now

00:52:26 ◼   ► with a new MacBook Pro if you want.

00:52:28 ◼   ► - So why don't we switch gears

00:52:32 ◼   ► from talking about some exciting product revisions

00:52:36 ◼   ► to maybe a less exciting product revision

00:52:40 ◼   ► with the brand new HomePod?

00:52:43 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:52:45 ◼   ► a new HomePod. There is! Is that what you were looking for? Yes! Believe it or not,

00:52:52 ◼   ► there is one. You know, you can look at it and you might not know. It is now powered

00:52:57 ◼   ► by the S7 chip from the Apple Watch. It is apparently a little bit smaller. It has a

00:53:03 ◼   ► slightly bigger kind of like screen on the top. It has the same temperature and humidity

00:53:09 ◼   ► sensor that the HomePod Mini does and now all of these are exposed to HomeKit as of

00:53:13 ◼   ► of iOS 16.3, which I think comes out this week.

00:53:17 ◼   ► And there is a Thread Radio inside,

00:53:19 ◼   ► so it was all set to be a full on meta controller

00:53:22 ◼   ► and it's $299.

00:53:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, so for all of us who anticipated

00:53:27 ◼   ► that the HomePod needed a rethink,

00:53:30 ◼   ► the answer is it didn't get one.

00:53:31 ◼   ► It got a refresh and it looks like it got turned

00:53:37 ◼   ► into sort of the brains of a HomePod mini

00:53:40 ◼   ► and that they de-contented, right?

00:53:44 ◼   ► They removed some stuff from it.

00:53:47 ◼   ► Presumably the new HomePod is cheaper for Apple to make.

00:53:52 ◼   ► So it's back.

00:53:55 ◼   ► I think it's okay.

00:53:58 ◼   ► I still have HomePods that work and are fine.

00:54:00 ◼   ► And I like them, the big HomePods.

00:54:02 ◼   ► I think that having the minis

00:54:04 ◼   ► and no big HomePods was weird.

00:54:06 ◼   ► It's not like Apple to have a modified product

00:54:09 ◼   ► without other products in the family.

00:54:12 ◼   ► It was the HomePod mini and that's all there was.

00:54:15 ◼   ► But I think that the biggest thing that's not like Apple is,

00:54:18 ◼   ► it's not like Apple to have a product for $99

00:54:20 ◼   ► and not a more expensive product to upsell you to.

00:54:24 ◼   ► And now they do with the big HomePod.

00:54:27 ◼   ► And I haven't heard it, I don't have them.

00:54:30 ◼   ► Apparently some journalists were allowed into a secret room

00:54:33 ◼   ► somewhere to listen to them, but only in that one room.

00:54:38 ◼   ► And I don't know, I'm sure they sound fine.

00:54:41 ◼   ► I'm sure they sound good.

00:54:42 ◼   ► The old HomePod sounded great.

00:54:44 ◼   ► And it's still stereo pair for 600 bucks is pricey,

00:54:48 ◼   ► but you know, Apple stuff is often pricey.

00:54:52 ◼   ► At least the HomePod minis also exist.

00:54:54 ◼   ► Beyond that, I don't know.

00:54:55 ◼   ► I don't know what to think about it.

00:54:56 ◼   ► Personally, my HomePods still work great.

00:54:59 ◼   ► Would I buy new HomePods if my HomePods died?

00:55:01 ◼   ► I don't know, maybe.

00:55:04 ◼   ► Maybe, I like having them there.

00:55:05 ◼   ► Even though I could turn on my Apple TV

00:55:07 ◼   ► and I've got speakers in my living room

00:55:10 ◼   ► that I could use instead that are better.

00:55:12 ◼   ► I find myself playing music on the HomePods a lot

00:55:16 ◼   ► because they're just there and addressable and sound good.

00:55:20 ◼   ► So I might, I might look around at other options,

00:55:25 ◼   ► other speaker options,

00:55:27 ◼   ► but I might get a new set of HomePods

00:55:29 ◼   ► if my HomePods died.

00:55:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, Chris Walsh at The Verge got some time with it.

00:55:34 ◼   ► Wasn't allowed to take any photos of it.

00:55:36 ◼   ► - Wasn't allowed to have a side by side comparison.

00:55:38 ◼   ► - What did we call it when the original one came out

00:55:40 ◼   ► that I was allowed in like the hidden Grove or something?

00:55:43 ◼   ► - You had a similar deal, right?

00:55:44 ◼   ► Where it's like, you can listen to this thing,

00:55:47 ◼   ► but nothing else.

00:55:48 ◼   ► - You can't tell details of where you were

00:55:50 ◼   ► or what the environment was or what you saw.

00:55:53 ◼   ► You can only talk about what you heard in this room

00:55:55 ◼   ► and that seems to have happened again.

00:55:57 ◼   ► - Remind me though,

00:55:59 ◼   ► did they play it in comparison to other devices?

00:56:02 ◼   ► - They did.

00:56:04 ◼   ► - Right, okay.

00:56:05 ◼   ► my demo they compared it to other devices.

00:56:07 ◼   ► But they didn't do that this time it seems. And Welch says it sounds about as good as

00:56:12 ◼   ► the original to his ear but of course he couldn't do a side pod. He said he had to run back

00:56:17 ◼   ► to the office so you can guess where they were and listen to the original and try and

00:56:23 ◼   ► be like does it sound the same? I'm disappointed in case you couldn't tell. I'm very disappointed

00:56:30 ◼   ► this home pod. I really want more from Apple than what they've done here, especially for

00:56:37 ◼   ► $300. The home pods are great, but I don't think they're $300 great right now. And I

00:56:46 ◼   ► don't think that they've really put enough into this thing to make it compelling. It

00:56:53 ◼   ► is really now, it's just a big home pod mini and I kind of feel like, well, I would just

00:56:57 ◼   ► get HomePod minis and it will be way cheaper.

00:57:01 ◼   ► - I think there's nothing wrong with making a bigger version

00:57:04 ◼   ► that sounds better for people who want to spend more money

00:57:06 ◼   ► and get something that sounds better.

00:57:07 ◼   ► And I like that they're both functionally the same

00:57:09 ◼   ► beyond that, I think that's all good.

00:57:11 ◼   ► I wish it was cheaper because I do think

00:57:16 ◼   ► that they're best in stereo pairs.

00:57:18 ◼   ► And I'll say what I did when the original HomePods came out,

00:57:20 ◼   ► which is I kind of wish they would sell it as a bundle,

00:57:24 ◼   ► right, like buy two and save,

00:57:26 ◼   ► but that doesn't seem to be part

00:57:28 ◼   ► of their initial announcement either.

00:57:30 ◼   ► And 300, right, like triple the price of the HomePod mini

00:57:35 ◼   ► is, that's a big leap, but obviously they have some

00:57:40 ◼   ► confidence that they can sell them that way.

00:57:43 ◼   ► I think it's really interesting

00:57:44 ◼   ► 'cause the HomePod original is perceived

00:57:46 ◼   ► as being kind of a failure of a product

00:57:48 ◼   ► and yet they're really kind of going back there again.

00:57:50 ◼   ► It's $50 less, but 299 was a price

00:57:52 ◼   ► that was readily available at the end for the HomePod.

00:57:55 ◼   ► So at least it's cheaper, but I don't know.

00:57:57 ◼   ► It's interesting.

00:57:59 ◼   ► A lot of rumors out there.

00:58:00 ◼   ► This is not the rumor roundup,

00:58:01 ◼   ► but a lot of rumors out there, a lot of reports

00:58:03 ◼   ► that there are other Apple home products in the works.

00:58:07 ◼   ► And so maybe this is Apple finally kind of like showing

00:58:10 ◼   ► that they need to get all their ducks in a row.

00:58:12 ◼   ► They need to get that new home pod out.

00:58:14 ◼   ► They need to get ready for Matter.

00:58:16 ◼   ► And then they can start rolling out

00:58:17 ◼   ► some other products too, who knows?

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00:59:53 ◼   ► While we head on down to the room around up and see what Sheriff Mark Gurman has got for

00:59:57 ◼   ► us maybe to lift my spirits about Apple's home strategy, Mark Gurman is reporting that

01:00:03 ◼   ► Apple continues to work on a set of devices to expand their smart home lineup. "The

01:00:09 ◼   ► push into smart displays will start with a tablet product, essentially a low-end iPad,

01:00:14 ◼   ► that can control things like thermostats and lights, show video and handle facetime. The

01:00:19 ◼   ► product could be mounted on walls or elsewhere using magnetic fasteners, positioning it as

01:00:24 ◼   ► more of a home gadget than a regular iPad. Apparently as well, a version of the Apple

01:00:29 ◼   ► TV that would combine a speaker and camera is still being worked on but is unfortunately

01:00:33 ◼   ► facing setbacks.

01:00:35 ◼   ► Oh, my soundbar, come on.

01:00:37 ◼   ► iPad, he's describing it as an iPad,

01:00:40 ◼   ► essentially an iPad, right?

01:00:42 ◼   ► - I think that's just a way to describe it, right?

01:00:45 ◼   ► - I think so too, right?

01:00:47 ◼   ► Now we've speculated about this a lot.

01:00:49 ◼   ► I love hearing about this.

01:00:51 ◼   ► Let me tell, as somebody who's had an Amazon Echo Show

01:00:53 ◼   ► in his kitchen for a while now,

01:00:55 ◼   ► there's a lot of opportunity to do better.

01:00:59 ◼   ► And that Apple could really,

01:01:02 ◼   ► I really want Apple to make this product.

01:01:04 ◼   ► My guess is that it's based on iPad hardware,

01:01:08 ◼   ► that it is gonna be able to run apps like an iPad,

01:01:12 ◼   ► but that they're gonna make it have a kind of like a better

01:01:17 ◼   ► kind of far away visual mode like these other products have

01:01:21 ◼   ► so that you can control it via voice, via Siri

01:01:26 ◼   ► and have it be, you know,

01:01:29 ◼   ► have it be able to show you stuff

01:01:31 ◼   ► in a way that like an iPad lock screen

01:01:33 ◼   ► that expects you to be holding it in your hands, doesn't.

01:01:37 ◼   ► So whether that's a more Apple TV-like mode

01:01:39 ◼   ► or it's a different kind of lock screen mode or--

01:01:41 ◼   ► - Widgets.

01:01:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I don't know what the form is.

01:01:45 ◼   ► And again, everything needs to be scaled up

01:01:47 ◼   ► because you're standing four feet away from it

01:01:49 ◼   ► instead of holding it in your hands.

01:01:51 ◼   ► But all the pieces, I know we've said this in the past,

01:01:54 ◼   ► all the pieces are there.

01:01:55 ◼   ► Apple has all the pieces to make a product like this.

01:01:58 ◼   ► They just have to have the will to make it.

01:01:59 ◼   ► And it sounds like this is what this product is gonna be.

01:02:02 ◼   ► It's gonna be something that is, you know, put it on,

01:02:05 ◼   ► here's a stand you can put it in,

01:02:07 ◼   ► here's an attachment to the wall you can put it on

01:02:10 ◼   ► and that they're trying to use it

01:02:12 ◼   ► based on kind of iPad technology.

01:02:14 ◼   ► Sounds good.

01:02:16 ◼   ► I'd love to see it.

01:02:17 ◼   ► - The thing that I want them to do

01:02:19 ◼   ► is what Google's doing with the Pixel tablet,

01:02:23 ◼   ► where you can get this base

01:02:26 ◼   ► and if you put it on the base, it turns it into a home hub.

01:02:28 ◼   ► So like, you can just take your existing tablet

01:02:32 ◼   ► and just turn it into one of the home products.

01:02:34 ◼   ► I think that's super cool.

01:02:36 ◼   ► I would like them to do that.

01:02:37 ◼   ► However, I don't imagine they'll do that

01:02:39 ◼   ► because why sell a bass when you can sell a whole device?

01:02:42 ◼   ► Right?

01:02:43 ◼   ► You know?

01:02:43 ◼   ► But then it would give people something to do

01:02:45 ◼   ► with their older iPads, which I think would be awesome.

01:02:49 ◼   ► Right?

01:02:50 ◼   ► But nevertheless, I really want both of these products.

01:02:53 ◼   ► This is exactly the types of things that I want.

01:02:55 ◼   ► Me and you have spoken about this idea of this like

01:02:58 ◼   ► soundbar, Apple TV, FaceTime thing, a bunch.

01:03:02 ◼   ► I really hope that they can get this product together

01:03:04 ◼   ► because I think it would be amazing.

01:03:07 ◼   ► But I really do want an Apple focused screen.

01:03:12 ◼   ► It's got all my photos in it already to show me memories.

01:03:15 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:03:16 ◼   ► - Or got all my calendars in there

01:03:17 ◼   ► or like everything's in there for me.

01:03:20 ◼   ► And like, I think for most of all listeners, right?

01:03:22 ◼   ► They're using some version of services that Apple provide.

01:03:25 ◼   ► I would love the stuff that I have in iCloud

01:03:29 ◼   ► to be available to me on a screen,

01:03:32 ◼   ► do smart stuff, right?

01:03:33 ◼   ► Like you have a voice or face recognition

01:03:36 ◼   ► to show the correct things for the correct person

01:03:38 ◼   ► in the house when they're looking at it.

01:03:39 ◼   ► Like I would love all of that kind of stuff

01:03:42 ◼   ► in a product made by Apple,

01:03:44 ◼   ► rather than a product made by somebody else.

01:03:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I agree.

01:03:48 ◼   ► And you could implement this, if you're Apple,

01:03:51 ◼   ► you could implement this as a device that was running tvOS,

01:03:54 ◼   ► you could implement it as an iPad OS,

01:03:56 ◼   ► kiosk mode of some kind.

01:03:58 ◼   ► It's unclear what it's doing here,

01:04:02 ◼   ► but those are implementation details, right?

01:04:03 ◼   ► Somebody has presumably been working for years

01:04:05 ◼   ► trying to figure out the best way

01:04:07 ◼   ► to make a product like this

01:04:08 ◼   ► that is at a price point that Apple wants to hit,

01:04:11 ◼   ► but with widgets and Siri and all the cloud services

01:04:16 ◼   ► and honestly apps, whether it's tvOS apps or iPadOS apps,

01:04:20 ◼   ► the pieces are here for something great.

01:04:23 ◼   ► And every time that I wonder why can't I do that thing

01:04:26 ◼   ► on my Echo Show,

01:04:27 ◼   ► or why is it showing me another stupid ad?

01:04:30 ◼   ► And the answer is 'cause I paid very little for it

01:04:31 ◼   ► 'cause it's an Amazon product designed to deliver me ads.

01:04:34 ◼   ► Don't get me started.

01:04:36 ◼   ► That I wish for something better

01:04:38 ◼   ► and think of how nice it would be

01:04:40 ◼   ► if I could put some iOS widgets on my screen

01:04:45 ◼   ► and maybe get my notifications there

01:04:47 ◼   ► and use Siri to play music and, you know,

01:04:51 ◼   ► which I can do with the Amazon Assistant too.

01:04:54 ◼   ► But like, I don't know,

01:04:56 ◼   ► there's a better experience to be had there

01:04:58 ◼   ► and Apple's got all the pieces.

01:04:59 ◼   ► So I would be very excited if Apple decided, yes,

01:05:01 ◼   ► actually an assistant with a screen is a good idea, right?

01:05:06 ◼   ► 'Cause the HomePod, my frustration

01:05:09 ◼   ► that I'll go into at a later time,

01:05:10 ◼   ► my frustration with the Amazon assistants,

01:05:13 ◼   ► I could unplug it and move my HomePod there, right?

01:05:17 ◼   ► But I don't, because there is value in having a screen.

01:05:20 ◼   ► There really is value in having a screen.

01:05:22 ◼   ► Even if it's just being able to glance

01:05:24 ◼   ► and see what the timer's status is,

01:05:26 ◼   ► There's value in having a screen.

01:05:27 ◼   ► So I hope Apple will play there one day.

01:05:29 ◼   ► - Mark Gellman has also reported

01:05:32 ◼   ► that Apple is currently planning to follow up

01:05:34 ◼   ► on their mixed reality headset now with a cheaper version

01:05:38 ◼   ► in either 2024 or 2025,

01:05:40 ◼   ► before they were to release a full AR focused product.

01:05:45 ◼   ► The AR product is apparently on hold

01:05:48 ◼   ► due to technical issues in development.

01:05:50 ◼   ► I mean, translation, this thing sounds like

01:05:52 ◼   ► it's gonna be really hard to make,

01:05:54 ◼   ► and turns out it is.

01:05:56 ◼   ► - I mean, I'm not surprised by this at all.

01:05:59 ◼   ► I feel like what we're seeing with Apple

01:06:02 ◼   ► and these products is a pretty traditional

01:06:06 ◼   ► new product category curve, right?

01:06:10 ◼   ► Which is like, or plot, however you wanna say it,

01:06:13 ◼   ► where it's like, well, here's our first one

01:06:15 ◼   ► and it kind of works and it's overpriced

01:06:17 ◼   ► and not a lot of people who aren't enthusiasts

01:06:21 ◼   ► are gonna want it, but here it is.

01:06:23 ◼   ► And then the next one is,

01:06:24 ◼   ► "Well, we made one that's cheaper

01:06:26 ◼   ► and more people are gonna want it,

01:06:28 ◼   ► but we're still working on it."

01:06:29 ◼   ► And you gotta go several steps out from there

01:06:32 ◼   ► before you get to,

01:06:33 ◼   ► these are glasses you can wear out in the world

01:06:35 ◼   ► and they overlay things into your field of vision, right?

01:06:37 ◼   ► Like that's a way harder product to make.

01:06:39 ◼   ► That's like somebody with an Apple II in 1977

01:06:43 ◼   ► saying, "We've got the iPhone on our roadmap."

01:06:50 ◼   ► Right?

01:06:51 ◼   ► It's like, hmm.

01:06:53 ◼   ► I even see it as something like, imagine if Apple started with the iPad,

01:06:58 ◼   ► and the next year we're like, "Oh, we're going to have an iPhone next year."

01:07:01 ◼   ► Like, that technology, you know, the iPad much bigger,

01:07:04 ◼   ► like you could, in theory, make it a chunkier device.

01:07:07 ◼   ► But then, having something that can just be available all the time,

01:07:10 ◼   ► battery life can be put in somebody's pocket, right?

01:07:13 ◼   ► Like, the miniaturization required, if they had done it the other way around,

01:07:16 ◼   ► would have been really hard.

01:07:17 ◼   ► And that's kind of what this feels like, right?

01:07:19 ◼   ► where you start off with a mixed reality headset

01:07:21 ◼   ► for whatever that's gonna be.

01:07:23 ◼   ► It's gonna be expensive and big and chunky

01:07:25 ◼   ► so it can have a bigger battery life in it.

01:07:27 ◼   ► The idea that then somebody could just put a pair

01:07:29 ◼   ► of glasses in their face and just live their regular life,

01:07:32 ◼   ► like that is going to be incredibly hard.

01:07:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's not one, two, three, right?

01:07:37 ◼   ► That's not how those steps work.

01:07:38 ◼   ► It's like one, two, three, four, five,

01:07:40 ◼   ► cloud, question mark.

01:07:42 ◼   ► - Exactly.

01:07:42 ◼   ► - 83, it's a long way off.

01:07:45 ◼   ► So of course, I mean, technical issues in development,

01:07:49 ◼   ► I just read that as this is technology

01:07:53 ◼   ► we have not yet invented,

01:07:54 ◼   ► or that we have not yet invented at a size or weight

01:07:59 ◼   ► or power consumption or all of the above

01:08:02 ◼   ► that it makes it a product that can exist today.

01:08:05 ◼   ► And that, I mean, that's the case.

01:08:07 ◼   ► Apple was prototyping touchscreen things,

01:08:09 ◼   ► including like iPhone-like touchscreen things

01:08:13 ◼   ► way before the iPhone.

01:08:15 ◼   ► But it was always like, how do we, you know,

01:08:18 ◼   ► how do we get this to work in anything small?

01:08:21 ◼   ► And it took time to reach that point where it was like,

01:08:24 ◼   ► now we can make a product that people want.

01:08:27 ◼   ► And that is the case, and it's not just Apple,

01:08:29 ◼   ► it's literally everybody.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Like this glasses that you wear that show you the world,

01:08:34 ◼   ► but also paint things on your vision with details on that,

01:08:38 ◼   ► like that is science fiction tech that we're not there yet.

01:08:41 ◼   ► Or if we are there yet, it's with like a thing

01:08:44 ◼   ► that is connected to 80 other things.

01:08:46 ◼   ► It's like that fusion that happened

01:08:50 ◼   ► at the Lawrence Livermore Lab where they're like,

01:08:52 ◼   ► well, it took an enormous thing and we actually,

01:08:55 ◼   ► to run it all, it took this huge amount of energy,

01:08:58 ◼   ► but the actual fusion experiment generated power.

01:09:00 ◼   ► It's like, it's a very large asterisk.

01:09:03 ◼   ► It's like, this is very exciting,

01:09:04 ◼   ► but it's not something you can actually apply right now.

01:09:07 ◼   ► This is a little like that,

01:09:08 ◼   ► where it's like they may have a lot of this tech,

01:09:10 ◼   ► but not in a way that it'll fit on your face.

01:09:13 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:09:14 ◼   ► Like, if you've got eight people behind you

01:09:16 ◼   ► and like a cable going to a van

01:09:18 ◼   ► that is following you down the street,

01:09:20 ◼   ► like, okay, but that's not what the product has to be.

01:09:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like that fusion, as you say,

01:09:27 ◼   ► like that fusion reaction wasn't net positive, right?

01:09:30 ◼   ► Like if you encountered everything that it took

01:09:33 ◼   ► to get it to the point where it can generate the energy.

01:09:36 ◼   ► - To get it to the point, right?

01:09:37 ◼   ► And it's experimental,

01:09:38 ◼   ► and I get that's what happens in early tech.

01:09:40 ◼   ► And the encouraging thing about the fusion reaction

01:09:41 ◼   ► is that when they got it there,

01:09:43 ◼   ► they, this technique generated more than they put in.

01:09:46 ◼   ► And that is a milestone, right?

01:09:47 ◼   ► But you can't forget the rest of it,

01:09:49 ◼   ► which is that there's, that there,

01:09:52 ◼   ► it's not like you can put one in your basement, right?

01:09:56 ◼   ► That part, that product does not exist

01:10:00 ◼   ► and may not exist if ever for decades.

01:10:02 ◼   ► And there's just a long way to get there.

01:10:05 ◼   ► - Quote, "Apple is aiming the lower price

01:10:07 ◼   ► of the follow-up mixed reality device

01:10:09 ◼   ► by using chips on par with those in the iPhone

01:10:12 ◼   ► rather than components found in higher end Mac computers.

01:10:16 ◼   ► So I don't think this is a version one, version two situation.

01:10:20 ◼   ► - No, this is Apple reality pro

01:10:22 ◼   ► and then Apple reality one, I think is what Mark Gurman said

01:10:25 ◼   ► that it's calling it.

01:10:26 ◼   ► So what they're doing is they're gonna make

01:10:28 ◼   ► the aspirational thing that costs a fortune

01:10:30 ◼   ► that nobody's gonna buy.

01:10:31 ◼   ► And then they're gonna follow it up.

01:10:33 ◼   ► And whether they say it at the time,

01:10:34 ◼   ► this is clearly the strategy, which is like,

01:10:36 ◼   ► "Oh, there will be another version

01:10:38 ◼   ► that people will actually buy."

01:10:40 ◼   ► Just not yet, right?

01:10:41 ◼   ► There'll be a cheaper version.

01:10:42 ◼   ► it's like Oculus, what is it?

01:10:43 ◼   ► The Oculus strategy is similar, right?

01:10:46 ◼   ► Where they have, they still are selling the Quest 2,

01:10:49 ◼   ► which is their cheap one,

01:10:50 ◼   ► and then they've got their expensive nice one.

01:10:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I mean, for them,

01:10:53 ◼   ► it was the other way around, right?

01:10:54 ◼   ► Where they had the Rift, and then they had the Quest.

01:10:57 ◼   ► Right, the Rift needed the PC,

01:10:59 ◼   ► then they brought the Quest and made it easy.

01:11:01 ◼   ► Now, the Rift doesn't exist anymore,

01:11:04 ◼   ► but now they have the Quest Pro, right, as you say.

01:11:06 ◼   ► So like, they kind of flipped it around again,

01:11:08 ◼   ► but there's still the cheap, the expensive,

01:11:11 ◼   ► I really wonder if Apple would be so bold as to say this

01:11:16 ◼   ► when they introduced the product.

01:11:18 ◼   ► - It would go against everything that they've done

01:11:23 ◼   ► in the past, but I would certainly, again,

01:11:25 ◼   ► if I were one of those people in a meeting,

01:11:27 ◼   ► again, they would recognize me as an outsider

01:11:30 ◼   ► and throw me out immediately.

01:11:31 ◼   ► - Immediately.

01:11:32 ◼   ► - If I were there and they somehow thought

01:11:35 ◼   ► that I had something to say, that's what I would say is,

01:11:39 ◼   ► "You know, you need to reassure people

01:11:41 ◼   ► "that this isn't the whole story

01:11:43 ◼   ► "because you're gonna get lambasted for it."

01:11:46 ◼   ► - This might be the one time to do it.

01:11:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, you only get one chance to make a first impression.

01:11:50 ◼   ► Developers wanna hear what you have to say.

01:11:52 ◼   ► And so you should commit

01:11:54 ◼   ► that this is just the beginning for us.

01:11:56 ◼   ► We have other products that are coming

01:11:59 ◼   ► that are also VR, AR, XR, whatever you wanna say, products.

01:12:04 ◼   ► Lean into that.

01:12:06 ◼   ► Lean into that this is step one of a whole,

01:12:09 ◼   ► just like how you leaned into it's an area of interest

01:12:12 ◼   ► years before in order to prime the pump, just say it.

01:12:15 ◼   ► You don't have to say next year we're gonna announce

01:12:17 ◼   ► the Apple reality one,

01:12:18 ◼   ► but say we have other products in the pipeline,

01:12:23 ◼   ► this is gonna be big.

01:12:25 ◼   ► And we anticipate that in the next couple of years,

01:12:27 ◼   ► lots of people are gonna have devices

01:12:30 ◼   ► running on this platform.

01:12:31 ◼   ► That's what I would say that they should probably say,

01:12:34 ◼   ► is just go out with confidence,

01:12:36 ◼   ► don't pre-announce those other products,

01:12:38 ◼   ► but give a nod and say, yeah, that we're in on this.

01:12:40 ◼   ► This isn't it.

01:12:41 ◼   ► This isn't a sink or swim kind of thing

01:12:43 ◼   ► with this one product.

01:12:44 ◼   ► We're in it and there will be other products coming

01:12:47 ◼   ► that are great that people are gonna want.

01:12:49 ◼   ► And in a few years, there's gonna be so many people

01:12:52 ◼   ► using this platform that you get on board today, right?

01:12:55 ◼   ► That's the argument.

01:12:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree with you.

01:12:57 ◼   ► I would say this is maybe one of the only times

01:13:00 ◼   ► where they could straight up say,

01:13:01 ◼   ► we have another product next year

01:13:02 ◼   ► that's gonna be different in value

01:13:04 ◼   ► and this is a sneak peek of it because-

01:13:05 ◼   ► - They could, they could.

01:13:06 ◼   ► But I mean, like I said, they can couch it a little bit

01:13:08 ◼   ► and it would be okay.

01:13:09 ◼   ► - I don't think that the user base

01:13:12 ◼   ► of this expensive headset would change

01:13:15 ◼   ► depending on if they did that or not.

01:13:18 ◼   ► Like the type of person that's gonna buy this.

01:13:21 ◼   ► - Sure.

01:13:21 ◼   ► - If it's $3,000, right?

01:13:23 ◼   ► The type of person that's buying this

01:13:25 ◼   ► is not now gonna go, "Oh, okay then, I'll wait."

01:13:28 ◼   ► - I'll wait for the one in two years that's cheaper, yeah.

01:13:30 ◼   ► - It's either people, sickos like me, right?

01:13:35 ◼   ► who want it and like I would be that person no matter what, right?

01:13:39 ◼   ► Like whether I do in this show or not, if I wasn't doing this show,

01:13:42 ◼   ► I'd still be the person that wanted it and if I could afford it, I would do it.

01:13:45 ◼   ► And then also developers, right?

01:13:49 ◼   ► And like developers aren't going to be like,

01:13:51 ◼   ► "Oh, they're bringing out another thing next year that's cheaper."

01:13:54 ◼   ► Like if you have an idea, you're not going to be like,

01:13:55 ◼   ► "I'll wait for that one then."

01:13:56 ◼   ► It's like, no, you want to be ready for when the cheaper one comes.

01:14:00 ◼   ► And so I don't think they're going to do it this way.

01:14:03 ◼   ► I'm saying I could imagine this being one of the only times

01:14:06 ◼   ► where they could get away with it.

01:14:08 ◼   ► And I don't think it would hurt this product's chance

01:14:12 ◼   ► in the market either way, to be honest.

01:14:16 ◼   ► - Probably not.

01:14:17 ◼   ► And like I said, I actually,

01:14:18 ◼   ► I think Apple needs to give developers

01:14:20 ◼   ► especially confidence that this platform matters.

01:14:22 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:14:24 ◼   ► Yep.

01:14:24 ◼   ► Digitimes is expecting a MacBook Air powered by an M3 chip

01:14:30 ◼   ► to be released in the second half of 2023.

01:14:34 ◼   ► It is expected that this could be Apple's first

01:14:36 ◼   ► three nanometer Apple Silicon chip.

01:14:39 ◼   ► This is interesting 'cause it kind of does

01:14:42 ◼   ► and doesn't line up with the rumors time-wise

01:14:45 ◼   ► at the 15 inch model.

01:14:47 ◼   ► There have been lots of rumors to suggest

01:14:49 ◼   ► it would occur in Q2,

01:14:52 ◼   ► but I think personally this all kind of wraps up.

01:14:55 ◼   ► This is the next revision.

01:14:57 ◼   ► - I mean, they could do an M3 MacBook Air

01:15:00 ◼   ► a year after doing, or a little more after the M2 MacBook Air.

01:15:04 ◼   ► Remember the M2 MacBook Air was delayed,

01:15:06 ◼   ► so maybe they turn around and put an M3 in it pretty fast.

01:15:09 ◼   ► The scenario that does make more sense

01:15:12 ◼   ► is that this is the 15-inch model

01:15:14 ◼   ► that they've been talking about.

01:15:16 ◼   ► But it's possible we'll get a 15-inch M2,

01:15:18 ◼   ► and then in the fall,

01:15:19 ◼   ► we'll get a revision of the 13-inch model that's an M3.

01:15:24 ◼   ► It's possible.

01:15:25 ◼   ► I mean, who knows, right?

01:15:27 ◼   ► Like who knows how their schedules are shaping up.

01:15:31 ◼   ► I think what's more interesting here is the idea

01:15:33 ◼   ► that this could be the Apple's first three nanometer chip.

01:15:37 ◼   ► This is a theory that I've had for a little while now

01:15:40 ◼   ► that I'm still wondering about,

01:15:42 ◼   ► which is given that the A series chips release every year

01:15:46 ◼   ► and the M series chips release every year and a half,

01:15:49 ◼   ► that we're going to see a skip at some point.

01:15:52 ◼   ► If this is the first three nanometer Apple Silicon chip,

01:15:56 ◼   ► that suggests that the M3 is based on,

01:15:58 ◼   ► I would guess on the A17,

01:16:01 ◼   ► which will be in this falls iPhone

01:16:03 ◼   ► and is supposed to be on a three nanometer process.

01:16:07 ◼   ► And given the rumors or reports,

01:16:10 ◼   ► there are reports that the A16 had the GPU cores

01:16:14 ◼   ► that they tried to do next gen GPU cores

01:16:16 ◼   ► and they failed them and went back to the old ones

01:16:18 ◼   ► because they used too much power.

01:16:20 ◼   ► This plays into that, right?

01:16:22 ◼   ► Which is the Mac wants to leap over that.

01:16:24 ◼   ► It's almost like the A16 is a lost generation at that point.

01:16:27 ◼   ► It's also possible that it's based on the A16,

01:16:32 ◼   ► but made at the three nanometer process

01:16:33 ◼   ► with the new GPU cores,

01:16:35 ◼   ► because they'll work fine on the Mac.

01:16:37 ◼   ► But I don't know, at that point, it's almost an A17 anyway.

01:16:41 ◼   ► So maybe that's the truth, is that the M3 is the A17.

01:16:45 ◼   ► They're gonna come out together this fall, essentially,

01:16:48 ◼   ► and the Mac will...

01:16:49 ◼   ► And when I was talking before about like,

01:16:52 ◼   ► just progressing from the M1 to the M2,

01:16:55 ◼   ► the M3 feels like that's where you might see apples first

01:16:59 ◼   ► sort of like, "Ha ha, but wait,

01:17:02 ◼   ► see what we did with this next generation of chip

01:17:05 ◼   ► in a way that the M2 doesn't do

01:17:07 ◼   ► because it is more just a little bit

01:17:10 ◼   ► of an improvement over M1."

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01:18:31 ◼   ► It is time for Ask Upgrade.

01:18:34 ◼   ► Jem said, "You mentioned previously in the loss

01:18:41 ◼   ► of future revenue for Twitter app developers."

01:18:43 ◼   ► So like we're talking about that as like

01:18:45 ◼   ► Twitter apps gone away, Twitter apps like gone, gone now,

01:18:47 ◼   ► like that's gone, it's done,

01:18:49 ◼   ► Twitter changed the API rules, it's over.

01:18:52 ◼   ► So we were talking about the idea that these businesses,

01:18:56 ◼   ► that's it for them now with these products,

01:18:58 ◼   ► that is a thing that's in them.

01:19:00 ◼   ► But as the, and Jim goes on to say,

01:19:02 ◼   ► but as the Twitterrific team state in their blog post,

01:19:05 ◼   ► if people who paid demand refunds because of the app

01:19:08 ◼   ► that they paid for is now useless, it could devastate them.

01:19:12 ◼   ► - For icon factory and Tapbots both, they are,

01:19:15 ◼   ► and anybody else who's got a paid Twitter client,

01:19:17 ◼   ► If people ask for their money back, which is their right,

01:19:22 ◼   ► but it's gonna happen all at once,

01:19:24 ◼   ► and it's going to, yeah, it will be an enormous loss

01:19:29 ◼   ► of money for these very small businesses, yeah.

01:19:34 ◼   ► - And this is a very complicated situation, I feel like,

01:19:38 ◼   ► because, as you say, right, like, people paid for an app.

01:19:45 ◼   ► It is not the user's fault that this happened.

01:19:47 ◼   ► This isn't the developer's fault either,

01:19:49 ◼   ► but it's not the user's fault, right?

01:19:51 ◼   ► And so this is one of those really weird decisions,

01:19:55 ◼   ► like really weird situations where I, being who I am,

01:19:59 ◼   ► lean on the idea of that the developers keep the money,

01:20:03 ◼   ► like they're these small businesses, et cetera, et cetera.

01:20:07 ◼   ► But there are a lot of people that,

01:20:08 ◼   ► "Well, I pay for this too, right?

01:20:10 ◼   ► "It's very complicated.

01:20:13 ◼   ► I would ask our listeners, if they're thinking about this,

01:20:17 ◼   ► to just write this one off as like, "Oh, well."

01:20:21 ◼   ► Because if you used and loved this app,

01:20:24 ◼   ► do you really want to put the developer in a tough situation?

01:20:27 ◼   ► Because you know, listening to this show,

01:20:31 ◼   ► what's gone down here.

01:20:34 ◼   ► I would give it to them as a tip or whatever.

01:20:36 ◼   ► Like, here you go.

01:20:38 ◼   ► Thanks for your work.

01:20:39 ◼   ► Goodbye.

01:20:40 ◼   ► But I would not, if somebody wants a refund

01:20:43 ◼   ► and requests a refund, I'm not gonna say you're wrong

01:20:45 ◼   ► for doing that because it's a business, right?

01:20:48 ◼   ► You are a customer, it's a transaction

01:20:50 ◼   ► to provide a service.

01:20:52 ◼   ► It's not your fault that it went away.

01:20:53 ◼   ► It's really weird, right?

01:20:54 ◼   ► This is a very strange situation.

01:20:57 ◼   ► I mean, and it gets worse by the fact of like,

01:20:58 ◼   ► if you ask for a refund in the App Store,

01:21:01 ◼   ► that 30% that Apple takes, I think there is precedent

01:21:05 ◼   ► that they can make you as the developer

01:21:07 ◼   ► refund the full amount and Apple won't give back

01:21:09 ◼   ► 30% which is even stranger and more complicated and weird.

01:21:15 ◼   ► David says I'm ready to update my desktop mac and the new mac mini looks great to me.

01:21:20 ◼   ► My current iMac which is a retina 5k 27 inch late 2014 has a lovely big monitor that I

01:21:26 ◼   ► would love to keep using. From everything that I've seen I'm out of luck and will have

01:21:30 ◼   ► to discard this monitor and buy something new. Have you heard of any way possible to

01:21:35 ◼   ► to reuse my iMac monitor with a modern Mac mini or Mac Studio?

01:21:39 ◼   ► - The answer is essentially no.

01:21:41 ◼   ► The way that the retina 5K displays on iMacs were built,

01:21:48 ◼   ► they don't have target display mode,

01:21:51 ◼   ► which used to be a thing long ago.

01:21:53 ◼   ► They're moving a lot of pixels

01:21:55 ◼   ► and they just were, they were never designed,

01:21:57 ◼   ► as iMacs largely have not been designed to be monitors.

01:22:00 ◼   ► They're computers, they're not monitors.

01:22:03 ◼   ► If you really want to,

01:22:06 ◼   ► you can use something like the Duet Display.

01:22:11 ◼   ► There are some apps that'll do it.

01:22:14 ◼   ► - Luna Display.

01:22:16 ◼   ► - Luna Display.

01:22:17 ◼   ► No, Duet Display is another app, right?

01:22:18 ◼   ► Isn't that a different app?

01:22:20 ◼   ► - They're both app, but I think Luna Display

01:22:22 ◼   ► does the hardware thing.

01:22:23 ◼   ► Luna Display is software.

01:22:25 ◼   ► - Right, I think that may be right.

01:22:29 ◼   ► There's definitely hardware with a Luna Display

01:22:32 ◼   ► That's part of the secret sauce there.

01:22:35 ◼   ► So there are apps that will let you take your Mac

01:22:37 ◼   ► and put it on a second Mac as a screen.

01:22:42 ◼   ► But keep in mind, one, you gotta boot up your iMac

01:22:44 ◼   ► and run that.

01:22:45 ◼   ► It's still your iMac.

01:22:46 ◼   ► It's still running there.

01:22:48 ◼   ► And two, you know, you're not gonna be satisfied

01:22:51 ◼   ► with the quality 'cause it's gonna be laggy

01:22:54 ◼   ► or it's gonna be lower quality

01:22:55 ◼   ► 'cause it is streaming video to a faux monitor

01:22:59 ◼   ► like from your Mac.

01:23:02 ◼   ► So you could try it and you might like it.

01:23:05 ◼   ► My guess is you won't like it.

01:23:08 ◼   ► And so that's why I taken this question to be,

01:23:12 ◼   ► you know, reuse my iMac monitor with a Mac mini

01:23:16 ◼   ► or Mac studio as like the primary display.

01:23:19 ◼   ► That's why I say no.

01:23:22 ◼   ► 'Cause the answer is yes with an asterisk

01:23:25 ◼   ► and the asterisk is you're not gonna like it.

01:23:29 ◼   ► You can try it, you're not gonna like it.

01:23:32 ◼   ► It's not gonna be satisfying to you.

01:23:33 ◼   ► Just like using it with an iPad would not be satisfying.

01:23:37 ◼   ► You could do it, you're not gonna like it.

01:23:40 ◼   ► - Joe asks, "Do you think that an M2 Max

01:23:44 ◼   ► and M2 Ultra Max Studio update could be imminent

01:23:48 ◼   ► now that we have the MacBook Pro updates?

01:23:51 ◼   ► Or could the Max Studio be another one and done proposition

01:23:54 ◼   ► like the iMac Pro?"

01:23:57 ◼   ► Joe, you're asking the question that we're all asking.

01:23:59 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

01:24:01 ◼   ► Whose way, is this just Mac Studio owners or like?

01:24:04 ◼   ► - I mean, I think everybody is asking, right?

01:24:05 ◼   ► Like is the Mac Studio a one-off

01:24:07 ◼   ► that was just sort of like to get us to the Mac Pro

01:24:09 ◼   ► or is the Mac Studio going to continue

01:24:10 ◼   ► to be a part of Apple's product line?

01:24:12 ◼   ► I feel like there's a perfectly good place

01:24:15 ◼   ► for the Mac Studio.

01:24:16 ◼   ► I don't know how the sales have done, right?

01:24:17 ◼   ► Like I feel like I said earlier in this very show

01:24:21 ◼   ► that there's this space where you've got the Mac Mini

01:24:23 ◼   ► and the Mac Studio and they fit, the four of them.

01:24:26 ◼   ► fit across the line.

01:24:28 ◼   ► What a Mac Pro does to that, I don't know.

01:24:30 ◼   ► The Mac Pro is gonna be so much more expensive

01:24:32 ◼   ► than the Mac Studio.

01:24:33 ◼   ► So my feeling is that there is probably room

01:24:37 ◼   ► in the product line for a Mac Studio

01:24:38 ◼   ► and that the Mac Studio is actually gonna appeal

01:24:40 ◼   ► to more people than a Mac Pro.

01:24:42 ◼   ► But I could also see Apple saying, "Nah, it's not worth it.

01:24:46 ◼   ► Mac Mini is good enough."

01:24:48 ◼   ► And then Mac Pro.

01:24:49 ◼   ► So we'll see.

01:24:51 ◼   ► But I hope that they'll just keep revising the Mac Studio.

01:24:54 ◼   ► They went to the trouble of making it.

01:24:56 ◼   ► So just keep doing it.

01:24:59 ◼   ► - And Eli asks, "What movies are you most excited for

01:25:03 ◼   ► in 2023?"

01:25:04 ◼   ► - Oh, right, is this a draft or how do we do this?

01:25:09 ◼   ► - You could just list it.

01:25:10 ◼   ► Just list the ones I have a list, you have a list.

01:25:13 ◼   ► I think we can just go through the lists.

01:25:14 ◼   ► - All right, the sequel to the animated Spider-Man

01:25:25 ◼   ► Spider-Verse movie is coming out across the Spider-Verse part one, I guess, or maybe it's they're gonna have to they're making two of them

01:25:30 ◼   ► Yeah, but they have different names

01:25:32 ◼   ► I don't remember what the second one is but like across the Spider-Verse and then there's another one Spider-Verse

01:25:37 ◼   ► So Into the Spider-Verse was the one this is the one starring, you know

01:25:41 ◼   ► Miles Morales and it's animated and it's great

01:25:43 ◼   ► It's one of the great one of the best animated movies of all time there. I said it easy. Yep

01:25:47 ◼   ► so another one of those so yes, please I

01:25:51 ◼   ► I'm encouraged by the trailer for the new Indiana Jones movie. So and I love Indiana Jones. So I'm looking forward to that very much

01:25:58 ◼   ► The Marvel movie I'm looking forward to the most is the Marvels which is the Captain Marvel Ms. Marvel team-up movie

01:26:05 ◼   ► I'm gonna mention a DC movie here. I haven't seen anything about it, but I love the comics of it, which is Blue Beetle

01:26:13 ◼   ► Which is about a kid in Texas named Jaime Reyes who gets the this bizarre alien

01:26:21 ◼   ► tech suit that allows him to be a superhero. The comics were really fun. If they can capture

01:26:28 ◼   ► the vibe of this kid trying to figure out how to be a superhero and deal with his family and his

01:26:32 ◼   ► friends and this weird alien suit, uh, could be great. I don't know. I'm gonna put on my list for

01:26:38 ◼   ► now. Very intrigued. And I realized the other week that Dune Part 2 is coming out this year, which

01:26:47 ◼   ► When the first part came out, I thought, you know, they didn't produce them simultaneously.

01:26:51 ◼   ► It was going to be forever before they got part two into theaters, but it's apparently

01:26:55 ◼   ► going to happen, uh, toward the end of the year.

01:26:57 ◼   ► So I'm excited about that because I really liked Dune part one.

01:27:00 ◼   ► So bring on part two.

01:27:02 ◼   ► So I'm also all in on Across the Spider-Verse.

01:27:05 ◼   ► Cannot wait for that movie.

01:27:06 ◼   ► The trailer looks so sick, like, can't wait.

01:27:09 ◼   ► Um, I'm, you know, for me, I'm all in on Marvel movies, so I'm excited for Ant-Man.

01:27:14 ◼   ► - I've got an update here.

01:27:18 ◼   ► Across the Spider-Verse is the third movie.

01:27:21 ◼   ► Beyond the Spider-Verse is the second movie, I think.

01:27:26 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:27:28 ◼   ► Or is it the other way around?

01:27:29 ◼   ► - No, I think Beyond the Spider-Verse is the next.

01:27:31 ◼   ► - Beyond the Spider-Verse is 2024.

01:27:35 ◼   ► Across the Spider-Verse is 2023.

01:27:36 ◼   ► So confusing.

01:27:38 ◼   ► Part one and two were less confusing than this.

01:27:41 ◼   ► All right, anyway, sorry.

01:27:42 ◼   ► So yeah, Ant-Man, I'm in.

01:27:45 ◼   ► The Marvels, I'm in.

01:27:46 ◼   ► Guardians of the Galaxy 3.

01:27:47 ◼   ► Can't wait for all of them.

01:27:49 ◼   ► I'll be there open at night.

01:27:50 ◼   ► I love it.

01:27:51 ◼   ► OK.

01:27:52 ◼   ► That's just how I am.

01:27:53 ◼   ► For me with Marvel movies, I love them, right?

01:27:55 ◼   ► And I don't want spoilers.

01:27:56 ◼   ► So I just go open at night to each one of them

01:27:58 ◼   ► and have a great time.

01:28:01 ◼   ► I'm super excited for the Super Mario movie.

01:28:03 ◼   ► It looks great.

01:28:04 ◼   ► Like, I love it.

01:28:06 ◼   ► The clip that they had at the Game Awards

01:28:08 ◼   ► completely solved me.

01:28:09 ◼   ► The trailer was good, but they played like a one minute clip

01:28:12 ◼   ► or something and it just looked like so much fun. I am gonna have a great time watching

01:28:15 ◼   ► the Super Mario movie. Can't wait. Similarly, I'm very intrigued about the Barbie movie.

01:28:22 ◼   ► Margot Robbie, Ryan Gosling. The trailer solved me where I was like, "Oh, okay. Now I don't

01:28:29 ◼   ► know what's happening." And Oppenheimer. Christopher Nolan movie about the atomic bomb.

01:28:36 ◼   ► Killian Murphy, like I love Killian Murphy.

01:28:39 ◼   ► I'm happy that Killian Murphy's finally getting

01:28:41 ◼   ► a full-on starring role in the Nolan movie.

01:28:44 ◼   ► Like he's always in 'em somewhere.

01:28:46 ◼   ► And I love Killian Murphy, so.

01:28:48 ◼   ► That's what I'm excited for this year.

01:28:50 ◼   ► - I read The Making of the Atomic Bomb,

01:28:54 ◼   ► which is a very large book, last year.

01:28:58 ◼   ► So I'm very interested in that,

01:28:59 ◼   ► because I've read a lot about that,

01:29:01 ◼   ► about the Manhattan Project,

01:29:02 ◼   ► and Oppenheimer is a particularly interesting figure.

01:29:04 ◼   ► So, you know, I'm intrigued by that one.

01:29:08 ◼   ► I didn't have that on my list,

01:29:09 ◼   ► but I will admit to being intrigued.

01:29:10 ◼   ► - This is the one where they actually did

01:29:12 ◼   ► like an actual bomb, right?

01:29:14 ◼   ► And they shot footage of an actual explosion

01:29:16 ◼   ► rather than using CGI?

01:29:17 ◼   ► - I don't think so.

01:29:19 ◼   ► You can't blow up atomic bombs.

01:29:21 ◼   ► - Not an atomic bomb.

01:29:23 ◼   ► - They just blew up a bomb and said,

01:29:24 ◼   ► look, it's atomic, pretend it's atomic.

01:29:26 ◼   ► - So Christopher Nolan recreated a nuclear explosion

01:29:29 ◼   ► without CGI for new film, according to the Guardian.

01:29:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, without CGI.

01:29:34 ◼   ► I'm gonna give you a guarantee here, there's CGI.

01:29:36 ◼   ► But it's nice that he blew something up.

01:29:39 ◼   ► - Blew something up, you know?

01:29:40 ◼   ► - Yep, mm-hmm.

01:29:42 ◼   ► - I don't know what it means,

01:29:43 ◼   ► but apparently he blew something up.

01:29:44 ◼   ► I just hear people talking about the blowing up.

01:29:46 ◼   ► - And then you add CGI.

01:29:47 ◼   ► We watched Top Gun Maverick over the weekend,

01:29:49 ◼   ► and we had that conversation, which is,

01:29:52 ◼   ► you know, is this practical or are those effects shots?

01:29:56 ◼   ► And my answer was, I think the answer is yes.

01:29:59 ◼   ► I think they did a lot of innovative photography

01:30:01 ◼   ► and they did a lot of aerial photography

01:30:02 ◼   ► and that crazy Tom Cruise was probably out there

01:30:06 ◼   ► in a plane somewhere, and then they took that footage,

01:30:09 ◼   ► and then they composited it a lot, right?

01:30:12 ◼   ► Like, I think both of those things can be true,

01:30:15 ◼   ► if you can hold that in your mind,

01:30:16 ◼   ► that they can shoot some amazing footage,

01:30:19 ◼   ► and then still need to clean it up