Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is "Connected," episode 434.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace and FitBod.

00:00:15 ◼   ► I'm one of your three co-hosts, Federico Vittucci,

00:00:19 ◼   ► and it's my pleasure to introduce

00:00:20 ◼   ► just one of the other two co-hosts, Mr. Stephen Hackett.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Hello, Stephen.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Hello, Federico.

00:00:26 ◼   ► How are you?

00:00:27 ◼   ► I am doing fantastic.

00:00:28 ◼   ► but it's the two of us today.

00:00:31 ◼   ► - It is, yeah, mic's off.

00:00:33 ◼   ► This is the birthday week here at Connected.

00:00:36 ◼   ► So mine is Saturday, his is Tuesday.

00:00:41 ◼   ► I think he's doing like some pre-birthday stuff tonight.

00:00:43 ◼   ► So just us.

00:00:44 ◼   ► - Nice, very nice, very nice.

00:00:47 ◼   ► Well, yeah, just us.

00:00:48 ◼   ► We got, of course, kind of weird on the pre-show

00:00:53 ◼   ► because I mean, we talked about like home renovation

00:00:56 ◼   ► like type, you know, manual, real, you know, manual stuff for doing things around the house,

00:01:06 ◼   ► obviously, which is new to me. It's a whole new thing to me, but it was good. So listen

00:01:11 ◼   ► to the pre-show for that if you're a connected pro member. Otherwise, we can just jump straight

00:01:16 ◼   ► into follow up and I see that we have some poems from people.

00:01:23 ◼   ► We do. I made a comment on a previous show. Okay, you could leave this poem. So I've got

00:01:28 ◼   ► a couple to read here. The first two are from Darren. Darren has been leaving us one every

00:01:33 ◼   ► day, which is awesome, but I'm not reading all five of them. I'm just going to do the

00:01:38 ◼   ► first two. So this is Darren. Haiku feedback form. New way to contact the boys. How can

00:01:45 ◼   ► I refuse? Nice. Here's the second one from Darren. Haiku feedback time. How long till

00:01:51 ◼   ► they regret asking us for this. Oh, I like this one better. This is the this is that

00:01:58 ◼   ► time right here. Michael writes, love the new feedback. I was never on Twitter. This

00:02:04 ◼   ► seems much better. Oh, it's even got the rhyme in there. Nice. Okay, very good. And then

00:02:10 ◼   ► Mark said they're more of a limerick guy than a haiku person. So Mark wrote this. Myke Federico

00:02:18 ◼   ► and Steven decided to keep coin flips even. Dice by Peacock worked well, much better than

00:02:24 ◼   ► Snell, so that rule changed, they opted to leave in.

00:02:27 ◼   ► Okay. That's good.

00:02:31 ◼   ► This is very good. This is very good.

00:02:33 ◼   ► So thank you everyone. If you do have feedback or follow up for the show, there is a link

00:02:38 ◼   ► in the show notes and it's also on the website relay.fm/connected/feedback and we continue

00:02:45 ◼   ► to improve that form so we've got some some new stuff coming to that here pretty soon.

00:02:49 ◼   ► This feedback is for Myke who is not here but he mentioned on a previous episode about

00:02:56 ◼   ► the you know the complications of like changing Apple ID addresses and I think even our friend

00:03:03 ◼   ► One Two John said that he had something shipped to his old house like it seems like Apple

00:03:08 ◼   ► keeps this in a different places but this is from Nick. Nick says that if you go to

00:03:13 ◼   ► Apple ID dot Apple dot com. That's sort of the one true source of information

00:03:20 ◼   ► about your Apple ID. So if you log in there and it's one of Apple's web pages

00:03:25 ◼   ► that you can use like face ID or touch ID to log into if you're using Safari

00:03:28 ◼   ► which is pretty cool. That is like the hub for your Apple ID. So you can change

00:03:34 ◼   ► your address. I had to update my payment information actually just yesterday and

00:03:38 ◼   ► this was in the show notes already. It's like, "Oh, I know where to go!" And you can also

00:03:43 ◼   ► do things like see what devices are signed into your account and get app

00:03:49 ◼   ► specific passwords. You know, some apps need those for iCloud, like a fantastic

00:03:52 ◼   ► account needs it. And it's all there. If you haven't looked at your Apple ID page,

00:03:57 ◼   ► there's a link in the show notes. I would say go check it out because it is really

00:04:01 ◼   ► a very useful tool to see to see what's going on with your Apple ID.

00:04:07 ◼   ► - All right, the one true Apple ID.

00:04:11 ◼   ► - That's right, that's right.

00:04:12 ◼   ► What's next?

00:04:13 ◼   ► - Well, we have reviews of the new Macs

00:04:17 ◼   ► that are launching.

00:04:20 ◼   ► Are they available for pickup yet in Apple stores?

00:04:22 ◼   ► - They are.

00:04:23 ◼   ► - They are.

00:04:25 ◼   ► So we have the new M2 Mac Mini and M2 Pro

00:04:30 ◼   ► and M2 Macs MacBook Pros.

00:04:32 ◼   ► We have reviews from those

00:04:33 ◼   ► and I think the general consensus

00:04:36 ◼   ► is that the MacBook Pros are speed bumps, unsurprisingly so,

00:04:41 ◼   ► and the Mac Mini with the M2 Pro is a pretty big deal

00:04:46 ◼   ► and it's a pretty lovely machine,

00:04:50 ◼   ► especially with the price cut,

00:04:52 ◼   ► much better performance than before

00:04:54 ◼   ► in a tiny compact machine that sort of rivals,

00:05:00 ◼   ► for some use cases, even the Mac Studio, I think,

00:05:03 ◼   ► depending on your configuration.

00:05:05 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:05:06 ◼   ► - And when I have links in the show notes

00:05:08 ◼   ► to some of the reviews, obviously Jason Snell

00:05:11 ◼   ► at Six Colors did two, both for the MacBook Pro

00:05:15 ◼   ► and the M2 Mac Mini.

00:05:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, Dan Morin did the Mac Mini one.

00:05:19 ◼   ► - Dan did the Mac Mini one.

00:05:20 ◼   ► - They're both great.

00:05:21 ◼   ► I kind of feel bad for the Mac Mini,

00:05:23 ◼   ► like it's kind of overshadowed a little bit

00:05:25 ◼   ► by the notebooks, but the Mac Mini update's a big deal.

00:05:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I really think so.

00:05:30 ◼   ► Like if I, I don't know, I keep thinking about it,

00:05:33 ◼   ► just like it's a really lovely machine

00:05:35 ◼   ► I cannot want to have it but I also know that I don't need it. So but if I were to buy a

00:05:41 ◼   ► new one now that's like I would get it immediately but I have an M1 Mac minion it's fine for

00:05:46 ◼   ► what I need to do. What I want to talk about is a couple of things. The first one is like

00:05:50 ◼   ► this sort of new quote-unquote controversy that is happening with the MacBook Pro with

00:05:57 ◼   ► the base model MacBook Pro and the speed of the SSD. So we're gonna link to an article

00:06:03 ◼   ► 9 to 5 Mac about how the 512 gigabit MacBook Pro with the M2 Pro has similarly to what

00:06:12 ◼   ► happened with the M2 MacBook Air as a performance drop compared to the M1 Pro MacBook Pro, so

00:06:21 ◼   ► the previous generation model, when it comes to read and write speeds for the SSD, which

00:06:28 ◼   ► if my understanding of this is correct, is due to the fact that the new chip design is

00:06:34 ◼   ► using a single NAND chip instead of multiple ones, and that while has resulted into higher

00:06:43 ◼   ► capacities chips, using fewer of them, and please correct me if I'm getting this wrong,

00:06:51 ◼   ► using fewer of them has resulted in slower speeds. I've seen some articles talk about

00:06:59 ◼   ► this like, "Oh, the new Mac Pro is slower than before." But the thing that really pushed

00:07:05 ◼   ► me into including this in the show notes this morning was I woke up to a WhatsApp message

00:07:11 ◼   ► from a friend who's kind of into technology, but it's not the kind of person with a Mastodon

00:07:20 ◼   ► account. You know, he's a video editor as a Windows PC, but he's keeping an eye on what

00:07:27 ◼   ► Apple is doing with Apple Silicon. Another kind of person who uses, again, Twitter, Mastodon

00:07:32 ◼   ► or RSS. And he sends me a TikTok video of an Italian, I guess, influencer. And the title

00:07:43 ◼   ► of the video, and I'm translating, the title of the video was "You will not believe this

00:07:47 ◼   ► new scam from Apple. Oh boy. And the video was about like how, yeah, it was that sort

00:07:53 ◼   ► of like, oh, you will not believe what Apple is doing now. They have a new scam. Like that

00:07:57 ◼   ► sort of, you know, sort of click baity style. And I watched the video and the video was

00:08:04 ◼   ► about this. Like it was about the write and read speeds of the SSD. But to make it like

00:08:11 ◼   ► in that TikTok video, like already like multiple thousands of views to reach my friend and

00:08:16 ◼   ► and for my friend to send me this video,

00:08:18 ◼   ► be like, "Hey, is this true?"

00:08:19 ◼   ► And try and make this into a new Apple gate or whatever.

00:08:25 ◼   ► I wanted to know what do you think about this, Steven?

00:08:30 ◼   ► - I mean, on the technical side,

00:08:32 ◼   ► it is a bummer that these SSD speeds are slower.

00:08:37 ◼   ► - That was my reply.

00:08:38 ◼   ► Like on the technical side, yes, it's a bummer.

00:08:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, is it something that is a showstopper

00:08:45 ◼   ► to buy one of these machines?

00:08:46 ◼   ► I don't think so.

00:08:47 ◼   ► I mean, the performance is still good.

00:08:49 ◼   ► It's just not as good as the bigger ones.

00:08:52 ◼   ► I wish Apple had done something differently

00:08:55 ◼   ► 'cause it's about, like you said,

00:08:56 ◼   ► it's the number of NAND chips and the way, you know,

00:08:59 ◼   ► they're using larger capacity but fewer individual parts.

00:09:02 ◼   ► And I wish Apple was either much more clear

00:09:05 ◼   ► about the differences here

00:09:07 ◼   ► or they would just do it differently

00:09:09 ◼   ► where they wouldn't run into this problem.

00:09:11 ◼   ► Is it a scam?

00:09:13 ◼   ► No.

00:09:14 ◼   ► Is it, you know, the new gate around these devices?

00:09:18 ◼   ► No, I don't think so.

00:09:20 ◼   ► If you're looking to buy one of these machines

00:09:21 ◼   ► and disk performance is really important to you,

00:09:23 ◼   ► yeah, you should know about it.

00:09:25 ◼   ► And it could maybe bump you up a tier

00:09:28 ◼   ► if that's like in your hierarchy

00:09:29 ◼   ► of what you're buying computer for, if it's a big deal.

00:09:32 ◼   ► Most people, I really don't think it is.

00:09:37 ◼   ► It's a bummer, but it's not a showstopper.

00:09:39 ◼   ► That's kind of where I come down.

00:09:41 ◼   ► - You also published an article

00:09:43 ◼   ► about these new chips from these computers on 512.

00:09:47 ◼   ► The title of the story is,

00:09:49 ◼   ► "It was always going to be this way."

00:09:51 ◼   ► And you referred to this article on Macworld,

00:09:55 ◼   ► I believe, by David Price?

00:09:59 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:10:00 ◼   ► - So they wrote a column on Macworld about like,

00:10:03 ◼   ► basically the gist of the story is,

00:10:05 ◼   ► Apple Silicon is now boring

00:10:08 ◼   ► because we're not seeing these huge performance jumps

00:10:11 ◼   ► that they promised, you know, with the first generation chip anymore, and the Mac Pro is

00:10:16 ◼   ► still not here, and the fact that it's still not here somehow won't be a good deal for

00:10:22 ◼   ► people when it eventually comes. And you really went for it, my friend here, quoting like

00:10:30 ◼   ► every single paragraph of this story and bringing some really fascinating counter arguments.

00:10:37 ◼   ► I saved some highlights that I want to mention.

00:10:41 ◼   ► You said, "I agree that Apple comparing the new M2 Mac Mini to the old Intel is playing

00:10:47 ◼   ► to the strengths of the transition, but most people aren't going to be upgrading from an

00:10:52 ◼   ► M1 Mac Mini to an M2 model."

00:10:54 ◼   ► Hey, that's me.

00:10:55 ◼   ► "So I'm willing to forgive it."

00:10:57 ◼   ► So this one refers to the fact that Apple is comparing the M2.

00:11:01 ◼   ► Instead of comparing that chip to the M1, they're using some Intel Core i7 from a couple

00:11:08 ◼   ► of years ago.

00:11:10 ◼   ► And I follow some gaming websites, a bunch of people were making fun of Apple for doing

00:11:17 ◼   ► this, like "Hey, Apple is comparing the M2 to an old i7 from like two years ago or something."

00:11:22 ◼   ► But in the context of the transition, as you mentioned, it doesn't affect people who bought

00:11:31 ◼   ► an M1 Mac Mini likely because they're not getting to an M2 anyway.

00:11:34 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, my biggest piece with this article and the reason I sort of deconstructed it

00:11:41 ◼   ► was we talked about it on the show even like this is how transitions work.

00:11:46 ◼   ► You get a really, really big jump the first time you do it.

00:11:51 ◼   ► I have a screenshot in the article from Apple's old like, "Why are we switching to Intel

00:11:55 ◼   ► page?"

00:11:56 ◼   ► It's like, "Oh, this computer is four to five times faster than the previous one, right?"

00:12:00 ◼   ► The second and third, you know, Intel iMacs, the second and third MacBook Pros ever were

00:12:05 ◼   ► not 40 times faster than the previous ones.

00:12:08 ◼   ► It is always this way because you get that big jump because that's the reason you made

00:12:12 ◼   ► the transition in the first place.

00:12:14 ◼   ► Right?

00:12:15 ◼   ► And, and I think Apple at this point in the game, I think it's totally fair to compare

00:12:21 ◼   ► the M2 to an Intel machine because most people are not going to upgrade from an M1.

00:12:27 ◼   ► Now, if we're in 2026, and they're comparing the M4 or the M5 to Intel, okay, I call foul

00:12:36 ◼   ► sir, right?

00:12:37 ◼   ► Like, then you need to pick something a bit more relevant to people.

00:12:41 ◼   ► But the truth is, right now, most Macs out there probably are Intel machines still.

00:12:46 ◼   ► And so they need to contextualize these announcements for people who are using an Intel Mac at their

00:12:51 ◼   ► at their desk or in their notebook or whatever.

00:12:54 ◼   ► So yeah, this Mac Word article gave me an opportunity to talk a lot about what I've

00:12:59 ◼   ► been thinking about the transition.

00:13:01 ◼   ► Again a lot of that we've talked about here as a group over the last 18 months or whatever.

00:13:06 ◼   ► But just because this is a "spec bump" like it doesn't mean these aren't great machines.

00:13:12 ◼   ► It doesn't mean that if you need a new computer now's a great time to do it.

00:13:17 ◼   ► Like if you're hanging on to an Intel MacBook Pro and you've been budgeting or you're kind

00:13:20 ◼   ► of ready to make a purchase, now's a great time to do it.

00:13:23 ◼   ► These machines really look, really look impressive.

00:13:27 ◼   ► At this point in the transition, it was always going to be a spec

00:13:30 ◼   ► bump, and that's totally fine.

00:13:32 ◼   ► It's a great upgrade.

00:13:33 ◼   ► And if you have an M1, you're totally fine.

00:13:36 ◼   ► You don't have to worry about this time.

00:13:38 ◼   ► What's harder to forgive, and I'm quoting you again, is the obsession

00:13:44 ◼   ► over process size that has taken over so much tech reporting.

00:13:49 ◼   ► So you're referring to the fact that these chips are not built with a 3 nanometer process.

00:13:58 ◼   ► Why do you think the tech reporters are obsessing over this?

00:14:03 ◼   ► I think partially it's Intel's fault because Intel's been stuck on larger size processes

00:14:11 ◼   ► for a while now and that's kind of been their whole problem.

00:14:14 ◼   ► And one reason like the 2016, 17, 18 MacBook Pros were hot, there's a lot of conjecture

00:14:19 ◼   ► that they were designed with a more efficient, cooler running chip in mind and Intel was

00:14:25 ◼   ► unable to deliver it.

00:14:27 ◼   ► There's a lots of asterisks and like hand-waving we have to do when we talk about process size.

00:14:32 ◼   ► What TSMC calls 5 nanometer and what Intel may call 5 nanometer and what someone else

00:14:38 ◼   ► may call 5 nanometer don't necessarily mean the same things.

00:14:43 ◼   ► There are different ways of doing this and a lot of senses it's more marketing than anything

00:14:47 ◼   ► else you know in some cases.

00:14:50 ◼   ► I think because Apple's pushed it you know over the last couple of years I think in contrast

00:14:56 ◼   ► to Intel I think if Intel wasn't in trouble with their process nodes then Apple wouldn't

00:15:02 ◼   ► be like talking about oh the a17 is on this or that.

00:15:06 ◼   ► Three nanometers gonna be great when we get it.

00:15:08 ◼   ► I mean if it continues to follow kind of the plots, you know laid out previously

00:15:14 ◼   ► it's gonna bring

00:15:16 ◼   ► hopefully a big bump in efficiency and

00:15:19 ◼   ► power while remaining cool and you know

00:15:22 ◼   ► You stick it in a computer without a fan but just because the m2 still say it stays on the 5 nanometer process

00:15:30 ◼   ► Doesn't mean the m2 is a failure by by any means I mean

00:15:35 ◼   ► That was one thing I was a little bit worried about so I was glad to see in the reviews that oh

00:15:39 ◼   ► It's they're just like the M once you can't get the fan to go unless you really punish it like in a way that is

00:15:46 ◼   ► Not typical out in the real world. And so it's not the case that these machines are

00:15:52 ◼   ► Struggling because you know Apple at some point thought this process was going to be smaller and they were unable to do it for whatever

00:15:58 ◼   ► reason

00:16:00 ◼   ► And the last kind of factor here is the m1 chips are based on the a series that there's a lot of shared DNA here

00:16:08 ◼   ► the a series chip is

00:16:10 ◼   ► I think they're at 4 nanometer now and the M chips are usually a generation behind on their the core design they use and

00:16:18 ◼   ► So it was gonna be really unlikely that the m2 Pro Max

00:16:23 ◼   ► You know those configs

00:16:26 ◼   ► We're going to jump process size that they were gonna leapfrog the iPhone and be different in the base

00:16:32 ◼   ► M2 as soon as the base M2 was announced at 5 nanometer

00:16:36 ◼   ► the m2 Pro and Max were always going to be 5 nanometer because the way Apple builds these chips is

00:16:42 ◼   ► They're basically like building blocks right if you look at the images Apple has

00:16:45 ◼   ► Okay, here's the m2. Here's the m2 Pro. It's a little bigger. Here's the m2 max

00:16:51 ◼   ► It's even bigger and assuming the ultra is like two maxes fused together like the m1

00:16:55 ◼   ► Ultra is I'm not saying they won't ever change that but to date what we know so far about Apple silicon on the Mac is

00:17:02 ◼   ► the

00:17:04 ◼   ► generational

00:17:06 ◼   ► Architecture is the same

00:17:07 ◼   ► No matter what level you're at in terms of you know number of cores and amount of RAM and that sort of stuff

00:17:13 ◼   ► So I don't think it's a big deal. I don't think it's a big deal at all

00:17:16 ◼   ► And lastly you said the Mac Pro is going last this time for the same reasons

00:17:23 ◼   ► It went last in 2006. What are those reasons? Yeah, because Apple likes to make John's Syracuse a sweat

00:17:30 ◼   ► No, I'm just kidding

00:17:32 ◼   ► Same reasons

00:17:34 ◼   ► Yeah, I've heard a thing on the Mac Pro a couple weeks ago

00:17:36 ◼   ► And I was like as long as there's been a Mac Pro people have been worried about the next one and like I just had

00:17:40 ◼   ► John's our cases picture in my mind

00:17:42 ◼   ► The Mac Pro is

00:17:45 ◼   ► last because it uses

00:17:48 ◼   ► more of everything and

00:17:52 ◼   ► At the same time sells less than anything else

00:17:56 ◼   ► So if you roll back the clock to 2006 and the Intel transition

00:17:59 ◼   ► The Mac Pro use eon processors where the other machines using core duo and core to duo, you know

00:18:05 ◼   ► That's sort of different class of chip, but it was very clearly

00:18:08 ◼   ► this is the most Intel stuff we can put into this tower and

00:18:13 ◼   ► in a way

00:18:15 ◼   ► That's even a bigger deal now because apples in charge and apples driving this technology forward instead of Intel

00:18:22 ◼   ► the pattern so far has been you start with the consumer chip you know the M1

00:18:26 ◼   ► or the M2 and then we get Pro Max Ultra down the road. Yeah I don't know what the

00:18:32 ◼   ► Mac Pro holds right I don't know if it's gonna have card slots or RAM expansion

00:18:35 ◼   ► or anything I honestly don't know but whatever is coming with it it's going to

00:18:40 ◼   ► be a super set of what we've seen elsewhere or it doesn't have a reason to

00:18:45 ◼   ► exist and Apple starts at the low end and works their way up. They also do that

00:18:50 ◼   ► because they sell I mean the ratio of MacBook Air cell to Mac Pros has to be a

00:18:55 ◼   ► billion to one like I don't know what the actual number is but it's a massive

00:18:59 ◼   ► difference and Apple is at the end of the day if you're a pro this you know I

00:19:05 ◼   ► don't mean to hurt your feelings I'm a pro too but it's the reality Apple

00:19:09 ◼   ► builds consumer products and the pro versions of those products are a smaller

00:19:14 ◼   ► market and so Apple's got to go where the market is and then lastly oh

00:19:19 ◼   ► the people who really do need a Mac Pro who really

00:19:23 ◼   ► Depend and build their workflows around what those machines can do

00:19:27 ◼   ► Those are the very people who are often last to make a transition

00:19:32 ◼   ► And so in the power we see it into the days and I was around for that

00:19:35 ◼   ► I remember really clearly a lot of professionals held on to g4s and g5s

00:19:41 ◼   ► because

00:19:43 ◼   ► Software they used or you know drivers they needed to interact with some other, you know outboard hardware

00:19:50 ◼   ► Or plugins for their you know audio editor, whatever it was

00:19:55 ◼   ► they were waiting on all that stuff to to be ported over to Intel or

00:20:00 ◼   ► even be

00:20:03 ◼   ► You know

00:20:04 ◼   ► Proven out that Rosetta could run it and the same thing is true now, right?

00:20:08 ◼   ► I think about when the 2019 Mac Pro came out and there were a bunch of videos by people in audio

00:20:13 ◼   ► Okay, I've stuffed all these cards in here and it's great

00:20:15 ◼   ► like those people are gonna be the last ones to move to Apple Silicon because they have much more complex needs and

00:20:21 ◼   ► so the Mac Pro is

00:20:23 ◼   ► fine hanging out until for a little bit longer because those people aren't gonna jump to Apple Silicon on day one more than likely and

00:20:31 ◼   ► So not a big deal that it's last again. It's how it was always going to be

00:20:34 ◼   ► I don't really know why this was like put into this article because

00:20:37 ◼   ► There are different things like what Apple's doing with the Mac Mini. What Apple does at the Mac Pro like very little bearing on each other

00:20:44 ◼   ► Yeah, it is a bummer. We haven't seen the Mac Pro yet

00:20:46 ◼   ► I bet Apple wishes it was out Apple said it was gonna be a two-year transition

00:20:50 ◼   ► well

00:20:50 ◼   ► some things happened since since that was in the plans and

00:20:54 ◼   ► It is taking a little bit longer than I think they wanted

00:20:57 ◼   ► But I think what we're getting out of the transition is so fantastic. Like it doesn't bother me

00:21:02 ◼   ► outside of the my curiosity about the product that we haven't seen an Apple silicon Mac Pro yet

00:21:07 ◼   ► You're gonna buy a Mac Pro just a minor Mac Pro to run audio hijacker. I

00:21:12 ◼   ► Can't I mean I can't judge

00:21:16 ◼   ► I've got some some exciting news. Yes, we have new

00:21:20 ◼   ► Merchandise at the relay FM store. So there's a link in the show notes

00:21:25 ◼   ► It's right at the top and we've got a couple new shirts

00:21:29 ◼   ► So we've got one called click wheel, which is the screen of an iPod

00:21:34 ◼   ► But with some like funny relay stuff in it and then we have 90s

00:21:39 ◼   ► Which is this like really colorful kind of you know early 90s rad kind of design and

00:21:46 ◼   ► I'm super happy with both of these they're both on sale now and

00:21:50 ◼   ► As are a couple of the previous shirts if a shirt that we had is that you wanted is no longer here

00:21:57 ◼   ► It'll roll back on at some point. We're just kind of turning this over every few months and

00:22:01 ◼   ► Really excited about these. Yeah, I mean the click wheel one is incredible. Good. I really love that design

00:22:08 ◼   ► It's so good. Like it's the font and depend the battery indicator

00:22:12 ◼   ► I know yeah, because you've been listening to some podcasts already

00:22:16 ◼   ► So it's not a full battery because you've been using it. It's it's really good

00:22:20 ◼   ► We got switch on in there. The font is the right one

00:22:24 ◼   ► Obviously, I want to say that the rounded corners of the display are even consistent like that's yeah, very very nicely done

00:22:31 ◼   ► Yeah, we work with really talented people JD really killed it on these shirts

00:22:34 ◼   ► Yeah, no tiny head shirts this time last time Myke was gone. We did that but we promised not to do it this time

00:22:41 ◼   ► Yeah, we we did not what did what expression did he use we was a betrayal. Is that what he said?

00:22:47 ◼   ► Yeah, no, no betrayal this time

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00:23:41 ◼   ► You can see again all in one place how those emails are performing just a couple weeks ago. I had a friend of mine

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00:23:49 ◼   ► for his new business and he reached out to me with a couple of questions and

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00:24:01 ◼   ► You can also get in under the hood with things like code injection into the header of the page

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00:24:39 ◼   ► All right, so we got a bunch of software updates.

00:24:41 ◼   ► We got iOS and Apple 16.3, Ventura 3.2, and I believe as of yesterday,

00:24:47 ◼   ► tvOS and HomePod software, whatever it's called.

00:24:51 ◼   ► Is it called HomePod software? Is that the name? Or just HomePod?

00:24:54 ◼   ► I think it runs iOS technically, but yeah, I don't know what to call it.

00:24:58 ◼   ► I think it's got a name. Anyway, 16.3 on the HomePod as well.

00:25:03 ◼   ► One of the new features in 16.3, which I am not touching, obviously, but it's not made

00:25:09 ◼   ► for people like us, you can now use a physical security key with your Apple ID.

00:25:16 ◼   ► You've seen those devices, probably like the YubiKeys, I believe one of them are called.

00:25:22 ◼   ► These are, obviously, this more advanced security method is designed for, I think, for figures

00:25:32 ◼   ► like journalists, political activists, politicians, individuals who are at the risk of like, you

00:25:42 ◼   ► know, like the government agencies going after them or like cyber attacks, high risk individuals

00:25:49 ◼   ► that do not qualify as three guys who do a podcast about Apple, obviously. And so these

00:25:55 ◼   ► are not designed for us, but it's a pretty serious effort from Apple's part here to have

00:26:03 ◼   ► like official, like proper FIDO certified security keys from the FIDO alliance, working

00:26:14 ◼   ► all across the ecosystem with iPhone, iPad and the Mac with Ventura. So this is pretty

00:26:21 ◼   ► cool if you believe you need this kind of security on your account. I would recommend going to the

00:26:28 ◼   ► support document that Apple has and check out all the steps that you need to follow with your Apple

00:26:32 ◼   ► ID. I think this is pretty awesome. Even though it shouldn't be needed because it's like... but

00:26:37 ◼   ► you know now you have the option. Speaking of security stuff, Advanced Data Protection

00:26:42 ◼   ► rolled out globally with 16.3. I still haven't done it. We know that Myke did it but it's not

00:26:51 ◼   ► not here with us right now, this very moment.

00:26:53 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:26:55 ◼   ► - It's so advanced, he can't talk on the show anymore.

00:26:57 ◼   ► - It's so advanced, he disappeared from my message.

00:27:00 ◼   ► We cannot possibly know whether it worked or not.

00:27:04 ◼   ► So I guess Myke will follow up somehow with us

00:27:08 ◼   ► as to whether advanced data protection in the UK,

00:27:11 ◼   ► on his iPhone and either devices worked

00:27:15 ◼   ► and if it worked well.

00:27:17 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:27:18 ◼   ► I still haven't done it because I, you know,

00:27:19 ◼   ► It's one of those things I gotta wait and see how it goes.

00:27:22 ◼   ► - Well, there was a Zach in the Discord had found

00:27:25 ◼   ► an article about if you're unable to update

00:27:29 ◼   ► your HomePod software, then--

00:27:32 ◼   ► - HomePod software.

00:27:33 ◼   ► - HomePod software, then you can maybe turn off

00:27:37 ◼   ► advanced data protection and then update the HomePod.

00:27:40 ◼   ► - Ah, so there you go.

00:27:41 ◼   ► - I have ADP turned on in my iCloud account

00:27:44 ◼   ► and I could update my HomePods just fine.

00:27:47 ◼   ► And so it's been okay for me,

00:27:49 ◼   ► but if you do run into issues,

00:27:51 ◼   ► we'll put a link to that article in the show notes.

00:27:54 ◼   ► - For a second I thought you said,

00:27:55 ◼   ► "I have ATP on my iCloud account."

00:27:58 ◼   ► And I was like, "Wait, how do you have ATP

00:28:00 ◼   ► on your iCloud account?"

00:28:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, I have Casey answer all my messages now.

00:28:03 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:28:04 ◼   ► - It should be.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Also in 16.3, it unlocks through magic,

00:28:10 ◼   ► sensors that were always inside the HomePod Minis.

00:28:16 ◼   ► The humidity and temperature sensors in the HomePod minis

00:28:20 ◼   ► are now working and reporting data.

00:28:23 ◼   ► The problem is, well, a couple of problems.

00:28:25 ◼   ► First of all, it seems that for some people

00:28:27 ◼   ► it's not showing up immediately

00:28:28 ◼   ► or like the data is not showing up immediately,

00:28:31 ◼   ► I guess because like the sensors need to calibrate

00:28:33 ◼   ► or something, it's probably gonna take a while

00:28:35 ◼   ► to give you some data points.

00:28:38 ◼   ► - I installed the update last night

00:28:41 ◼   ► and I still don't see--

00:28:43 ◼   ► - You still don't have it.

00:28:44 ◼   ► - I still don't have it.

00:28:44 ◼   ► So I assume there are temperatures and humidities

00:28:47 ◼   ► in my house, but I don't know what they are.

00:28:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, there must be a temperature.

00:28:52 ◼   ► - Oh, surely. - In your house.

00:28:53 ◼   ► - I mean, I hope so.

00:28:55 ◼   ► - I guess, but also I've seen some people complain that,

00:28:57 ◼   ► I've seen some folks on Mastodon and Discord and on Reddit.

00:29:03 ◼   ► Give it a look.

00:29:06 ◼   ► So some people saying that two homefought minis

00:29:08 ◼   ► in a stereo pair, they report different values,

00:29:14 ◼   ► even though they sit for like a meter from each other

00:29:17 ◼   ► and they have different values for temperature and humidity.

00:29:20 ◼   ► And I've seen some folks like ask for like,

00:29:23 ◼   ► what about if you have a stereo pair,

00:29:25 ◼   ► instead of reporting a total of four values,

00:29:28 ◼   ► just give me an average,

00:29:31 ◼   ► which I think is probably a good idea.

00:29:33 ◼   ► Like if you have two HomePod Minis,

00:29:35 ◼   ► but then as I say this, I also realize,

00:29:38 ◼   ► well, what if you have a ministerial pair,

00:29:40 ◼   ► but they are not close to each other?

00:29:42 ◼   ► So maybe it could be beneficial to say, well, you know,

00:29:46 ◼   ► maybe I have this HomePod Mini by the window

00:29:48 ◼   ► and report a certain value, but I have this other one,

00:29:52 ◼   ► you know, in the hallway and it's a totally different value.

00:29:55 ◼   ► So I see both sides, I guess, as with most things,

00:29:59 ◼   ► when you cannot find a single approach,

00:30:02 ◼   ► you can either do what Apple does

00:30:03 ◼   ► or you can do the right thing, which is make it a setting.

00:30:07 ◼   ► I don't know, I guess we'll see if they do or not.

00:30:10 ◼   ► probably not. New Unity wallpapers are here and obviously watchOS 9, I keep forgetting

00:30:18 ◼   ► the watchOS is on version 9, 9.3 also launched and it's got a new Unity watch face. And there

00:30:25 ◼   ► were some changes to the emergency SOS. I haven't really played around with this. I

00:30:31 ◼   ► never test emergency SOS in my reviews because I am so afraid I'm going to trigger it and

00:30:38 ◼   ► the police is going to pick up and I'm going to have to explain what I just did.

00:30:41 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm a blogger. Please don't come over here.

00:30:43 ◼   ► Sorry, I'm a blogger.

00:30:45 ◼   ► So, there's been some tweaks here to prevent like accidental, what we were just saying,

00:30:54 ◼   ► like accidental phone calls. So now you can place a call by holding down the side button

00:31:01 ◼   ► alongside either of the volume buttons.

00:31:04 ◼   ► But in order to place the call, you gotta release the buttons.

00:31:10 ◼   ► Before, if you just held them down,

00:31:12 ◼   ► you would place an emergency phone call.

00:31:14 ◼   ► Now you need to release them.

00:31:16 ◼   ► I don't know if this is better than before,

00:31:19 ◼   ► because it also comes natural to release those buttons

00:31:24 ◼   ► when you realize what you've done.

00:31:26 ◼   ► And it may be too late anyway.

00:31:29 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:31:29 ◼   ► like I said, I don't want to test this. I don't want to be that guy. But there's this tweak.

00:31:35 ◼   ► And in Ventura 3.2, which reminds me, I need to update my Mac Mini.

00:31:40 ◼   ► Yeah, 13.2.

00:31:41 ◼   ► 13.2. There's a fix for the... I saw this happen to Myke, to John, and to friend of the show,

00:31:51 ◼   ► Steve Transtmith text handwritten with the Apple Pencil sort of exploding all

00:32:00 ◼   ► over a board in free form. This should have been fixed in this version. Yeah, we

00:32:07 ◼   ► ran into that on on MPU as well and basically what happens is if someone's

00:32:12 ◼   ► using a pencil to hand write on a freeform board on the iPad, when you open

00:32:17 ◼   ► it on the Mac the text slowly drifts and so like if you wrote the word Federico

00:32:20 ◼   ► It eventually would like beat three levels on top of each other then some space and like the other letters on top of each other

00:32:26 ◼   ► Nice, very strange. My feedback for it is still open, but they say they fixed it

00:32:31 ◼   ► so, you know maybe at some point my

00:32:34 ◼   ► My feedback number will we marked as closed but god they fixed it freeform did get bumped to version

00:32:42 ◼   ► I think 1.1 with this, you know, it's it's interesting because we talked about

00:32:47 ◼   ► either here or on MPU

00:32:50 ◼   ► would Apple treat freeform like a

00:32:52 ◼   ► built-in system app like notes or reminders where it gets updates with the OS or is it gonna be more like

00:33:00 ◼   ► I work, you know Apple can do a pages or keynote update

00:33:03 ◼   ► independent of

00:33:06 ◼   ► What's going on at the OS level now? Sometimes they are on the same day. Sometimes they are tied together

00:33:10 ◼   ► Definitely, but there are other times like oh, hey, we fix these bugs and numbers and you know the other apps. So

00:33:16 ◼   ► So far, it's only been in conjunction with iOS but one point is not a graph. So I'm curious to see

00:33:22 ◼   ► Apple treats freeform

00:33:25 ◼   ► differently, I mean I think you and I both agree that it would be nice for Apple to

00:33:29 ◼   ► Update like reminders or mail or something at all during the year not just in the point of every fall

00:33:37 ◼   ► but even if they they did that off cycle, I think would be

00:33:40 ◼   ► it would be nice but there they seem to all be kind of linked together in a way that

00:33:46 ◼   ► really feels like a historic artifact from back in the day with like

00:33:49 ◼   ► The iPhone had you like down remember this like you download a firmware file in iTunes and then like you plug your phone in it

00:33:55 ◼   ► Was out of commission for 30 minutes when it like upgraded the firmware

00:33:58 ◼   ► We've moved past that but in some ways we haven't something else that came out as of yesterday ivory for Mastodon

00:34:05 ◼   ► So in case you've in case you're not a mastodon or you don't know what I'm talking about

00:34:10 ◼   ► This is the new app from tap bots

00:34:14 ◼   ► And it's, you know, at a glance can be described as the tweetbot equivalent, but for Mastodon instead of Twitter.

00:34:21 ◼   ► Especially consider then, since last week, third-party Twitter clients are officially dead. Rest in peace.

00:34:29 ◼   ► I don't want to talk about like how, you know, Twitter made the announcement official by sort of updating the guidelines.

00:34:39 ◼   ► post the fact that they actually killed the client.

00:34:43 ◼   ► Yet another ridiculous move from this company.

00:34:46 ◼   ► But in any case, Ivory for iPhone and iPad is out.

00:34:50 ◼   ► The Mac version is still being worked on.

00:34:55 ◼   ► I think it'll come out next.

00:34:57 ◼   ► I did a review on Mac stories and it felt like

00:35:02 ◼   ► sort of my entire timeline yesterday

00:35:05 ◼   ► was taken over by Ivory.

00:35:07 ◼   ► I think there's obviously,

00:35:08 ◼   ► so something that I pointed out in my review,

00:35:11 ◼   ► besides the fact that it's a really high quality app

00:35:14 ◼   ► in terms of design, excellent, really well done,

00:35:17 ◼   ► feels like Mark, the designer Tapbot,

00:35:21 ◼   ► has kind of found his enthusiasm back after,

00:35:25 ◼   ► and I can imagine that, like, you know,

00:35:27 ◼   ► making a Twitter client, especially in the past few years,

00:35:30 ◼   ► must have been, you know,

00:35:31 ◼   ► just exhausting from a creative standpoint.

00:35:34 ◼   ► Like, you have some ideas and you cannot do them,

00:35:37 ◼   ► because you're not sure you will be able to actually ship them.

00:35:41 ◼   ► So it must be exhausting, like draining

00:35:43 ◼   ► all of your creative energy.

00:35:45 ◼   ► And it feels like you can tell that tab bots,

00:35:47 ◼   ► like they're both Mark and Paul, they're both very energetic,

00:35:53 ◼   ► I guess.

00:35:54 ◼   ► Like, you can feel it when a developer is eager to ship more

00:35:58 ◼   ► and do more stuff, which is exciting, I think.

00:36:01 ◼   ► from a performance standpoint, like super smooth,

00:36:04 ◼   ► like if you remember Tweetbot, how smoothly it scrolls

00:36:07 ◼   ► and the menus, how quickly they open,

00:36:10 ◼   ► and the action drawer.

00:36:12 ◼   ► It's just really high quality product

00:36:15 ◼   ► from two developers who have clearly been doing this

00:36:20 ◼   ► for a long time.

00:36:22 ◼   ► The bigger point, and this has been kind of controversial,

00:36:25 ◼   ► I think, I've definitely had to mute some,

00:36:31 ◼   ► insufferable people on Mastodon about this.

00:36:35 ◼   ► Turns out, Steven, some kind of people are everywhere.

00:36:39 ◼   ► Just on Twitter, they can also be on Mastodon.

00:36:43 ◼   ► I think the bigger point is that it's important

00:36:47 ◼   ► in our little community, in our little Apple community,

00:36:50 ◼   ► to have this kind of product for Mastodon right now

00:36:54 ◼   ► to sort of ease the transition from Twitter

00:36:57 ◼   ► to something else.

00:36:59 ◼   ► The counterargument to this is that the beauty of decentralization and federation and federated

00:37:10 ◼   ► social media is that you're not "supposed to" use a proprietary paid-for client that

00:37:21 ◼   ► is just on Apple devices and just for Mastodon.

00:37:25 ◼   ► And while I do understand the perspective from which the argument comes, I also think

00:37:30 ◼   ► it's wrong.

00:37:32 ◼   ► First of all, I always tend to be against, like, the arguments that start with "you're

00:37:38 ◼   ► not supposed to," like, that thing, like, when you shouldn't do something, based on

00:37:44 ◼   ► the assumption of what, exactly, and who.

00:37:48 ◼   ► It never quite works with me.

00:37:52 ◼   ► I also think that there's a fundamental difference now that we are approaching and we are learning the ropes of this new type of social media.

00:38:04 ◼   ► Mastodon is one type of service that is compatible, to an extent, with ActivityPub.

00:38:13 ◼   ► We talked about this before, ActivityPub being the standard that powers, and again I'm simplifying here,

00:38:19 ◼   ► here. The standard that powers this communication between different services with a decentralized

00:38:24 ◼   ► approach.

00:38:25 ◼   ► Mastodon is one service for that, and it's the kind of software made by a company that

00:38:33 ◼   ► wants to make money in building software. Whereas I've seen some people in my replies

00:38:39 ◼   ► yesterday arguing that because of decentralized social media, basically all software should

00:38:48 ◼   ► be free and open source.

00:38:50 ◼   ► And if you're not using free and open source software--

00:38:53 ◼   ► and I'm literally quoting one of the replies that I got--

00:38:58 ◼   ► you are one of those Twitter people that

00:39:01 ◼   ► have now come on our service.

00:39:05 ◼   ► And I really dislike that sort of like--

00:39:11 ◼   ► Gatekeeping.

00:39:12 ◼   ► Gatekeeping.

00:39:13 ◼   ► That's the word I was looking for.

00:39:15 ◼   ► Like, oh, it's one of those Twitter people who have migrated from that service back to here.

00:39:22 ◼   ► And I really dislike it. I think fundamentally the misunderstanding there is that there can be

00:39:30 ◼   ► multiple types of software, and competition is good. Competition is great.

00:39:33 ◼   ► You can have free and open source software. I mean, you look at IceCubes. Excellent

00:39:39 ◼   ► Mastodon client that I want to write about more soon.

00:39:43 ◼   ► It's free and open source.

00:39:45 ◼   ► You got a bunch of other free and open source software

00:39:47 ◼   ► for Mastodon, for ActivityPub.

00:39:49 ◼   ► It's full of that kind of stuff right there.

00:39:51 ◼   ► But the whole point of this,

00:39:54 ◼   ► the whole point of not having a single entity control

00:39:58 ◼   ► the social network you're using

00:40:00 ◼   ► is that you're free to do whatever you want.

00:40:02 ◼   ► And you're free to use an app that is paid for.

00:40:08 ◼   ► And even in that segment, you're free to choose if you want to have a paid upfront client or a subscription client.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Like you're free, just do whatever you want.

00:40:17 ◼   ► And you're free to use a free and open source app or a web app or a PWA, ELK, E-L-K, excellent PWA for Mastodon.

00:40:29 ◼   ► I've installed it on my gaming PC while I was trying Apple Music for Windows. Works great.

00:40:36 ◼   ► You can even install it on your iPhone if you want to.

00:40:39 ◼   ► The point being, that kind of gatekeeping, I think is kind of silly.

00:40:44 ◼   ► And you're free to, like, you should, the thing is, you should, if you want to use that

00:40:48 ◼   ► verb, what you should do is you should feel free to do whatever you want, because this

00:40:52 ◼   ► is the whole point of it.

00:40:54 ◼   ► Like I think we migrated away from Twitter because that was exactly the problem, that

00:41:01 ◼   ► service didn't want you to do, to use certain things.

00:41:05 ◼   ► Here, just do whatever you want.

00:41:06 ◼   ► You like ivory, use ivory.

00:41:08 ◼   ► You like ice cubes, you use ice cubes.

00:41:10 ◼   ► You wanna use a web app, use a web app,

00:41:11 ◼   ► like suit yourself, you know?

00:41:13 ◼   ► So that's just something that I wanted to point out

00:41:15 ◼   ► because I saw that kind of reaction from multiple people

00:41:18 ◼   ► after I posted my review and it was just bothering me.

00:41:21 ◼   ► - No, I get it.

00:41:23 ◼   ► And I hope that, you know, the folks behind Twitterrific

00:41:26 ◼   ► and some other applications,

00:41:28 ◼   ► I know the person behind Spring is doing what,

00:41:30 ◼   ► Mona, is they're gonna be their Mastodon client.

00:41:33 ◼   ► There's other things coming, right?

00:41:35 ◼   ► If tweetbots, tweetbot wasn't your jam on Twitter,

00:41:39 ◼   ► it's probably not gonna be your jam on Mastodon,

00:41:41 ◼   ► but I think there's more on its way.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And I know that our friend, Manton Reese,

00:41:47 ◼   ► who runs micro.blog had a post about some of the challenges

00:41:52 ◼   ► of kind of integrating with Mastodon,

00:41:58 ◼   ► using ActivityPub, all this stuff.

00:42:00 ◼   ► So we'll put that, this is early days, right?

00:42:02 ◼   ► There are--

00:42:03 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:42:04 ◼   ► - There are things that are a little bit messy in places

00:42:07 ◼   ► and even Ivory is sort of labeled as like early access.

00:42:10 ◼   ► Like there were things that just aren't there yet,

00:42:13 ◼   ► but I know in the beta process

00:42:18 ◼   ► that they've really been working hard,

00:42:20 ◼   ► I suspect that will continue.

00:42:22 ◼   ► - And just in general, Ivory, really excellent app.

00:42:25 ◼   ► I've been using it.

00:42:27 ◼   ► I'm now in the process of like switching

00:42:29 ◼   ► between multiple clients because I wanna do,

00:42:32 ◼   ► I want to do at some point like some kind of overview of the different options that

00:42:36 ◼   ► you have at least on iOS and iPadOS.

00:42:38 ◼   ► But Ivory is the one that's on my home screen and it's the one I go back to just because

00:42:42 ◼   ► it feels nicer than anything else at the moment.

00:42:48 ◼   ► But I'll probably spend some time setting up Mona as well, especially on the iPad because

00:42:53 ◼   ► of the multiple columns, custom sections and all that kind of stuff.

00:42:56 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a exciting time, I think,

00:42:59 ◼   ► to be on Mastodon, you and Myke should join Steven.

00:43:04 ◼   ► - I mean, I've been reading more.

00:43:08 ◼   ► - Come on, come on.

00:43:10 ◼   ► You know, even Steve Tran Smith is on there now.

00:43:13 ◼   ► - I saw that.

00:43:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I've been reading some.

00:43:16 ◼   ► - I don't wanna clarify, I don't wanna peer pressure you,

00:43:19 ◼   ► but I'm just saying I would love it if you were there.

00:43:22 ◼   ► But if you don't want to, then it's also fine.

00:43:24 ◼   ► - We'll see, we will see.

00:43:26 ◼   ► We don't do, we only do peer pressure when it comes to buying computers and stuff, but

00:43:31 ◼   ► social media, do whatever you want.

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00:45:38 ◼   ► So you want to close out this episode with an easy topic.

00:45:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, touchscreen Macs.

00:45:45 ◼   ► A couple of weeks ago,

00:45:49 ◼   ► Mark Gurman had a article in Bloomberg,

00:45:51 ◼   ► I'm sure everyone's seen it now,

00:45:52 ◼   ► we're a little bit late to this,

00:45:54 ◼   ► that Apple is working on adding touchscreens to Macs,

00:45:57 ◼   ► something he calls a major turnabout.

00:46:00 ◼   ► Back in the day, Federico, I'm sure you remember this,

00:46:03 ◼   ► when they released the good MacBook Air

00:46:05 ◼   ► in that back to the Mac event,

00:46:06 ◼   ► there was a little section about touch.

00:46:08 ◼   ► And there's a lot more, but these are some of

00:46:10 ◼   ► the highlights of how we've been

00:46:12 ◼   ► inspired by the work that we've done in iOS,

00:46:15 ◼   ► and we'd like to bring it back to the Mac.

00:46:17 ◼   ► So, let me talk for a few minutes about a few of these.

00:46:21 ◼   ► Multi-touch gestures.

00:46:23 ◼   ► You know, the first thing you think about is this, right?

00:46:27 ◼   ► We thought about this years ago.

00:46:29 ◼   ► We've done tons of user testing on this,

00:46:34 ◼   ► and it turns out it doesn't work.

00:46:36 ◼   ► Touch surfaces don't want to be vertical.

00:46:40 ◼   ► It gives great demo.

00:46:42 ◼   ► But after a short period of time,

00:46:45 ◼   ► you start to fatigue and after

00:46:47 ◼   ► an extended period of time,

00:46:49 ◼   ► your arm wants to fall off.

00:46:51 ◼   ► It doesn't work.

00:46:52 ◼   ► It's ergonomically terrible.

00:46:54 ◼   ► Touch surfaces want to be horizontal, hence pads.

00:47:01 ◼   ► For a notebook, that's why we've

00:47:03 ◼   ► perfected our multi-touch trackpads over the years.

00:47:07 ◼   ► Because that's the best way we've found

00:47:10 ◼   ► to get multi-touch into a notebook.

00:47:13 ◼   ► We've also, in essence,

00:47:15 ◼   ► put a multi-touch trackpad

00:47:17 ◼   ► on the mouse with our magic mouse.

00:47:19 ◼   ► And we've recently come out with

00:47:21 ◼   ► a pure play trackpad as well for our desktop users.

00:47:24 ◼   ► So this is how we're going to use multi-touch

00:47:27 ◼   ► on our Mac products because this doesn't work.

00:47:32 ◼   ► Well, that was 10 years ago. Just because Apple said it was a bad idea then doesn't mean it's a

00:47:37 ◼   ► bad idea now. We've learned is touch is extremely important how we interact with our software.

00:47:42 ◼   ► If we tried to build it into the display, we discovered that it's not in an optimal position,

00:47:47 ◼   ► you don't feel comfortable holding your hand up in the air and trying to multi-touch. The best way

00:47:52 ◼   ► to deliver multi-touch in the notebook is through the trackpad. So in the MacBook Air, we've built

00:47:56 ◼   ► in a large glass multi-touch trackpad right before the full-size keyboard.

00:48:00 ◼   ► The rest of the market has gone to this. Even the iPad with its multiple keyboard and trackpad

00:48:07 ◼   ► accessories has moved this way. And I really want to get your take on this because I know one of the

00:48:15 ◼   ► things you love about the iPad is the modality that you can have it as a desktop computer. You

00:48:20 ◼   ► can have it as something you use in the car or walk around with. And I know a lot of that is

00:48:25 ◼   ► is that you can just like tear the screen off the keyboard.

00:48:27 ◼   ► And I don't think Apple's gonna do that with the Mac,

00:48:31 ◼   ► but as someone who uses a touch computer

00:48:33 ◼   ► as their primary computer,

00:48:35 ◼   ► what about this, you know, gets you excited?

00:48:38 ◼   ► What are you thinking?

00:48:39 ◼   ► - I gotta tell you that I'm gonna bring some fire.

00:48:42 ◼   ► - Good. - To this topic.

00:48:43 ◼   ► - Good. - Saving it

00:48:45 ◼   ► for a couple of minutes.

00:48:47 ◼   ► I, obviously I am on team, they should do this.

00:48:52 ◼   ► - Yes. - And they should have done

00:48:53 ◼   ► this years ago.

00:48:54 ◼   ► I feel like the other important factor is, like, let alone the fact that the same company

00:49:00 ◼   ► is making a computer, the iPad Pro, charging good money for it, and that computer is predicated

00:49:07 ◼   ► upon the idea of you attach a keyboard, you use the keyboard, it's got a trackpad, but

00:49:12 ◼   ► hey, at the same time, you can or cannot touch the screen as well.

00:49:18 ◼   ► other factor is in those 10 years or so,

00:49:23 ◼   ► in the meantime,

00:49:24 ◼   ► a new generation of people as grown up accustomed to touch screens and sort of

00:49:30 ◼   ► with the expectation that every display they see,

00:49:35 ◼   ► I guess besides the television that they have in, you know,

00:49:39 ◼   ► that their parents have in the living room usually is a touch compatible

00:49:44 ◼   ► display. Uh, you know, kids, they just,

00:49:47 ◼   ► I got three of those people in my house and that is 100% accurate.

00:49:51 ◼   ► They sit down at a MacBook Air and they try to scroll on the screen.

00:49:54 ◼   ► They try to scroll. Like they just grew up that way. So 10 years ago,

00:49:59 ◼   ► I would have argued that that was already happening, but let's play along.

00:50:03 ◼   ► Let's say that 10 years ago, that wasn't the case. It is the case today.

00:50:06 ◼   ► And so I think what you just said,

00:50:08 ◼   ► like because Steve Jobs said something 10 years ago,

00:50:13 ◼   ► let me tell you something. Steve Jobs was not infallible.

00:50:17 ◼   ► He did some things that, you know, in hindsight were wrong.

00:50:21 ◼   ► And at the same time, I believe there's also--

00:50:24 ◼   ► because like Apple fans, they only like to quote

00:50:27 ◼   ► one side of Steve Jobs.

00:50:29 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure that somewhere there's

00:50:31 ◼   ► a Steve Jobs quote that says something along the lines of,

00:50:35 ◼   ► "One of the greatest qualities is the ability

00:50:37 ◼   ► to change your mind."

00:50:38 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure that there's also that quote.

00:50:41 ◼   ► So it's convenient that they always

00:50:42 ◼   ► quote the thing that plays along to their argument.

00:50:47 ◼   ► You can change your mind, it's fine.

00:50:49 ◼   ► In these 10 years, the computing landscape has changed.

00:50:53 ◼   ► Apple itself is making a computer

00:50:55 ◼   ► that you can touch or cannot touch.

00:50:57 ◼   ► And the thing is, I feel like we are not asking for,

00:51:02 ◼   ► use a MacBook Pro, for example, only with touch.

00:51:09 ◼   ► I think what people are looking for are options.

00:51:12 ◼   ► Just have more input methods.

00:51:16 ◼   ► just have touch as a companion input method to the keyboard and trackpad.

00:51:22 ◼   ► Just because for some things it's more convenient, like for example, I don't know,

00:51:28 ◼   ► let's say you're playing music and with your thumb you can just reach out and quickly cue another song.

00:51:35 ◼   ► Or on YouTube you can click on a thumbnail, or maybe it's easier to actually touch it instead of using the cursor.

00:51:42 ◼   ► Like, just more concurrent input methods.

00:51:47 ◼   ► I think it would be great.

00:51:49 ◼   ► I think they should absolutely do this.

00:51:51 ◼   ► And I think now is the time to accept that,

00:51:55 ◼   ► hey, maybe 10 years ago we thought

00:51:57 ◼   ► it wasn't the best option for us,

00:52:00 ◼   ► but maybe we can do something today.

00:52:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I think in the context of that discussion

00:52:06 ◼   ► 10 years ago was, should touch screens be on the Mac

00:52:09 ◼   ► or should we have track pads, right?

00:52:11 ◼   ► The idea that you would have both and you would kind of use whatever was the best in any given moment

00:52:17 ◼   ► that really wasn't I don't think a

00:52:20 ◼   ► well

00:52:22 ◼   ► Position thought but in the year since we've come to understand that very thing

00:52:26 ◼   ► We're like with the iPad with the magic keyboard. You've got the trackpad

00:52:31 ◼   ► You know if you're typing if you're in that kind of keyboard heavy mode

00:52:34 ◼   ► You're probably just gonna reach down and use the trackpad

00:52:37 ◼   ► But you should be able to reach up with your finger your thumb and scroll, you know

00:52:42 ◼   ► yes, some elements of Mac OS currently are not really touch friendly, but maybe they all don't have to be and

00:52:49 ◼   ► Garvin says this is like three or four years out. So there's plenty of time

00:52:53 ◼   ► If you haven't noticed Apple does a Mac OS release every year. There's plenty of time for them to make some

00:52:59 ◼   ► Adjustments and I think they've been working towards that

00:53:03 ◼   ► I mean we talked about this a couple years ago with Big Sur and its control centers

00:53:06 ◼   ► like wow that looks just like iOS look how huge these targets are for a cursor

00:53:10 ◼   ► hmm you know is there more of that stuff coming probably so I think it's something

00:53:16 ◼   ► they should do you and I are in a hundred percent agreement in this that

00:53:19 ◼   ► this is something they should add to the Mac it would be an optional thing for

00:53:23 ◼   ► people who want it but the trackpad is not gonna go anywhere and I firmly

00:53:29 ◼   ► believe that that the trackpad will continue to be the main source of input

00:53:34 ◼   ► even if Mac notebooks do gain a touchscreen.

00:53:37 ◼   ► And that kind of leads me to my second question for you.

00:53:41 ◼   ► I think when we talk about this, we assume laptop,

00:53:43 ◼   ► like, oh yeah, the MacBook Air, of course it should have that.

00:53:45 ◼   ► But you and I are both sitting in front of a studio display.

00:53:48 ◼   ► People have iMacs, right?

00:53:51 ◼   ► Is that something Apple should bring to the desktop as well?

00:53:54 ◼   ► Do you think it makes sense there?

00:53:55 ◼   ► - I don't know on an external monitor.

00:53:58 ◼   ► I don't know why, but I don't feel,

00:54:03 ◼   ► Like, whenever I was using the MacBook Pro, I would always, like, just, you know,

00:54:09 ◼   ► my instinct was to just reach out and touch the display.

00:54:13 ◼   ► I never do that with a studio display, just because I feel like it's the mode switching,

00:54:20 ◼   ► like I'm sitting in front of it, and I know that it's not a touch-compatible display.

00:54:25 ◼   ► So first answer, probably going to be, like, no on the external monitor, just because that

00:54:31 ◼   ► feels maybe kind of strange. Although, I mean, I mean, it's not like I would oppose it strongly.

00:54:37 ◼   ► Like, if you want to do it, do it. Like, I wouldn't be upset about it. I don't know how frequently

00:54:43 ◼   ► I would do it with a VESA-mounted display in front of me. But also, like, if you want to do it,

00:54:50 ◼   ► just feel free to do it would be my answer, yeah. Yeah, in the Windows world, there is some touch

00:54:59 ◼   ► on the desktop like I think famously the Surface Studio, the big you know Microsoft iMac that has

00:55:05 ◼   ► a touch screen. Yeah. That computer has not been successful but I think it's that's more to do with

00:55:11 ◼   ► its specs and price than the fact that it has a has a touch screen but it is really interesting to

00:55:19 ◼   ► consider like if it's secondary right if it's how I think you and I are thinking like it's for

00:55:24 ◼   ► scrolling and you reach up and tap something but you're not doing your computing with your arms

00:55:29 ◼   ► held out, then I think they would be fine to skip the desktop. And yeah, it's on notebooks.

00:55:35 ◼   ► That's awesome. That's what most people buy anyways. But you're in a desktop environment.

00:55:39 ◼   ► It's a little bit different. Most PCs, most desktops are using screens that are not touch

00:55:44 ◼   ► right in the windows world, kind of outside of the surface studio and a couple other products

00:55:49 ◼   ► like it touches basically on notebooks and not on the desktop. And I think that is totally

00:55:55 ◼   ► Now, yeah, if something wild happens and like touch is the only thing and they get rid of the trackpad

00:56:01 ◼   ► They're not doing any of that but say they did they would have to bring it to the desktop

00:56:05 ◼   ► I think the experience would be too broken you have to different between their products

00:56:08 ◼   ► but adding it to a notebook seems like it's so overdue so simple and

00:56:14 ◼   ► Something that you know the beauty of this is because it's additive if it's not for you. You just never use it

00:56:21 ◼   ► I guess not a big deal because they're not gonna take away what we're already using

00:56:25 ◼   ► This topic, like this report from Germin and the discussion that I've heard, an upgrade

00:56:33 ◼   ► and other shows, it's sort of perfect timing for me because I've been thinking about this

00:56:39 ◼   ► stuff a lot lately. It all started with how stressed out I was with stage manager and

00:56:48 ◼   ► sort of broadly speaking my concern with the direction of iPadOS. But obviously in the

00:56:53 ◼   ► past couple of months I've been doing a lot of soul searching, if you will,

00:56:57 ◼   ► tech-wise. Sort of like trying to understand like what is it that I want

00:57:02 ◼   ► from my computer? Like why was Stage Manager so problematic for me? But even

00:57:09 ◼   ► beyond that, like what are my points of friction with iPadOS and what just what

00:57:15 ◼   ► is it that I want from from how I use a computer? And I have reached the point

00:57:22 ◼   ► where I am going to say something that until a few years ago I would have

00:57:31 ◼   ► thought was unthinkable for me and something that I actually fought pretty

00:57:38 ◼   ► pretty strongly when I heard that argument. The thing is I I think I've

00:57:47 ◼   ► I've come to the conclusion that what I want is for Apple to give me, to make,

00:57:55 ◼   ► not to just give me personally, but just to make.

00:57:59 ◼   ► We handmade this one product just for you.

00:58:01 ◼   ► No, but just I want Apple to make a true convertible computer.

00:58:07 ◼   ► I have reached a point where my wish is for a tablet that runs Mac OS.

00:58:12 ◼   ► Wow.

00:58:13 ◼   ► There.

00:58:15 ◼   ► And you know what? They brought me to this point, just out of exhaustion.

00:58:21 ◼   ► It's not my fault I said this. And it's not just stage manager.

00:58:28 ◼   ► The thing is, the very basic simple truth is I am tired of having to use two computers to do my job.

00:58:43 ◼   ► I feel like I shouldn't have to do this.

00:58:46 ◼   ► I shouldn't have to use an iPad Pro, because it's the modular convertible computer that I like to use.

00:58:55 ◼   ► It's touch, but it's also got a keyboard, and I can hold it, but I can also dock it if I want to.

00:59:02 ◼   ► And I love using it, except for some key tasks of my job,

00:59:07 ◼   ► which is the other half of my job, recording podcasts.

00:59:11 ◼   ► unless I purchase a bunch of expensive equipment and I overcomplicate my setup

00:59:18 ◼   ► so that I can sort of record with the setup that I want on the iPad Pro.

00:59:23 ◼   ► I'm just tired of all of this, and I am tired of having iPadOS be,

00:59:31 ◼   ► this is something that I have written over and over in my reviews over the years.

00:59:38 ◼   ► I love the idea that Apple has a shot at reinventing the traditional desktop OS

00:59:45 ◼   ► with a new design, with new interactions, with support for multiple input methods.

00:59:52 ◼   ► But if you want to reinvent it, you also need to meet a certain baseline of functionality.

01:00:01 ◼   ► You cannot just reinvent for, you know, design's sake.

01:00:06 ◼   ► And the fact that every single year for some key tasks of some built-in apps or some workflows,

01:00:18 ◼   ► like recording and having proper audio controls or just having the ability to install apps from

01:00:25 ◼   ► other sources that are not the App Store. And every year I keep thinking, "Oh, maybe next year."

01:00:30 ◼   ► "Oh, well, maybe next year." "Oh, this year they did this feature, but I'm sure next year they'll

01:00:35 ◼   ► get to it. I'm just tired of it. I'm just tired of feeling handcuffed by the platform.

01:00:44 ◼   ► And this year, they focused on Stage Manager, which they had a shot at rethinking multitasking,

01:00:51 ◼   ► and in my opinion, they blew it, because it doesn't do what I want. It doesn't give me

01:00:56 ◼   ► the flexibility that I, as a professional user, I would like to see. And I'm just, you

01:01:03 ◼   ► You know, I was thinking a few weeks ago, the prospect of Apple is not going to dedicate

01:01:10 ◼   ► much attention to iOS and iPadOS 17 this year because of the headset. It's scary. Like the

01:01:17 ◼   ► thought that if I want to have bigger fixes for iPadOS, I'm going to have to wait until

01:01:25 ◼   ► June 2024. It's kind of scary. Like, I don't know.

01:01:32 ◼   ► It's a bummer.

01:01:33 ◼   ► I don't know if I want to live with iPadOS for another year and a half, honestly.

01:01:39 ◼   ► But at the same time, what's my alternative?

01:01:42 ◼   ► Using MacBook Pro?

01:01:45 ◼   ► I don't want a laptop.

01:01:47 ◼   ► Like I just, I don't want to have a laptop that I cannot rip the screen out and use it

01:01:53 ◼   ► as a tablet.

01:01:55 ◼   ► So I think I've reached a point where unfortunately the computer I want Apple to make does not

01:02:02 ◼   ► exist. And then the question becomes, what's going to happen sooner? That Apple is going

01:02:08 ◼   ► to make a convertible Mac or that iPadOS is going to grow enough to sustain workflows?

01:02:16 ◼   ► That's a terrible race.

01:02:18 ◼   ► It's a terrible race. And I'm just here thinking about all these and feeling kind of scared

01:02:23 ◼   ► and afraid because I'm afraid that the answer is, who knows? And so this is why I've been,

01:02:32 ◼   ► I've actually been very nervous about all this because I feel like to an extent,

01:02:36 ◼   ► you know, to get super honest with you, um, I feel like to, to an extent,

01:02:41 ◼   ► so much of my, Oh, this is going to sound so silly, but Hey, whatever. Um,

01:02:45 ◼   ► but the thing is so much of my online identity is tied to be,

01:02:50 ◼   ► no, it's, it's the iPad guy, you know, like, and,

01:02:54 ◼   ► and I know that so many people like signed up for the club or, you know,

01:02:59 ◼   ► just follow me because I've used and tried to push the iPad beyond,

01:03:04 ◼   ► maybe sometimes beyond its limits. And I was not alone.

01:03:07 ◼   ► There's a bunch of other great people experimenting with the platform.

01:03:11 ◼   ► Of course.

01:03:12 ◼   ► But that's what I spent most of my time

01:03:16 ◼   ► researching and studying and writing about over the past few years.

01:03:20 ◼   ► But I feel like I've hit a wall. I don't know what else I can do.

01:03:27 ◼   ► I don't like using Stage Manager.

01:03:30 ◼   ► I don't like being, you know, like, I mean,

01:03:34 ◼   ► I don't know if you saw this, but like I posted on Masterdome,

01:03:36 ◼   ► I went back to using Split View and Slide Over.

01:03:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I think you told us that in messages.

01:03:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I just, and I'm tired, and I'm tired of like,

01:03:47 ◼   ► sometimes you wanna open a desktop web app

01:03:50 ◼   ► and it doesn't work just right in Safari.

01:03:53 ◼   ► And you're forced to use Safari

01:03:55 ◼   ► because you cannot put Google Chrome on it.

01:03:58 ◼   ► You have some built-in apps,

01:04:00 ◼   ► they still don't have the equivalent features

01:04:03 ◼   ► of the Mac OS versions.

01:04:06 ◼   ► Smart folders in Apple Mail,

01:04:08 ◼   ► smart playlists in Apple Music.

01:04:10 ◼   ► Like, and I'm tired.

01:04:12 ◼   ► I'm just tired of waiting for who knows exactly what, right?

01:04:17 ◼   ► It's been 10 years.

01:04:20 ◼   ► Like I was thinking about this.

01:04:22 ◼   ► It's been 10 years that I've been using the iPad.

01:04:25 ◼   ► And some things I've been complaining for literally a decade.

01:04:30 ◼   ► And I feel like maybe it's enough, you know, like,

01:04:34 ◼   ► but the thing is, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I don't like,

01:04:40 ◼   ► I love Mac OS. Mind you, I love Mac OS. I just,

01:04:44 ◼   ► I don't like being forced into a laptop again.

01:04:48 ◼   ► I don't think a MacBook Air the screen comes off of is in the cards anytime

01:04:54 ◼   ► soon yeah but but touch is a first step in that direction right without touch

01:05:02 ◼   ► there you're never gonna get to the true convertible so maybe maybe like we said

01:05:07 ◼   ► earlier Apple should get weird that's what we want they should do it just you

01:05:12 ◼   ► know make a make an iPad make them I don't know call it the MacBook touch or

01:05:18 ◼   ► whatever just call it whatever you want just give me a computer that runs

01:05:23 ◼   ► Mac OS or the single hope. I'm going to close out with a glimmer of hope. I'm afraid to

01:05:32 ◼   ► say that my one true hope this year is the European Union, which is not a position I

01:05:40 ◼   ► thought I would ever be in on this show. But hey, maybe the European Union is going to

01:05:48 ◼   ► really force Apple to allow sideloading on on iPadOS and maybe just maybe we will get alternative

01:05:56 ◼   ► browsers and alternative apps for audio files and that will maybe remove the friction I'm

01:06:04 ◼   ► finding over and over with some things and everything will work itself out thanks to

01:06:10 ◼   ► Gatekeeper and sideloading and the European Union and whatever feature Apple is going to ship

01:06:17 ◼   ► this year if they are doing it. And it sounds like they are. So maybe there's hope.

01:06:20 ◼   ► Not the kind of hope I was looking for, you know? Never a good kind of a feature, I guess,

01:06:29 ◼   ► if it's forced by regulators. But hey, maybe that's it. Maybe that's... I just need to wait

01:06:34 ◼   ► for sideloading. Godspeed, my friend. Yeah, I know, right? If you want to find links to stuff we

01:06:40 ◼   ► spoke about in the show this week, they're in your podcast app. They're also on the web at relay.fm/

01:06:46 ◼   ► connected slash 434. There's also a link there where you can submit feedback or

01:06:51 ◼   ► follow up to the show. There are also buttons to join and get connected pro

01:06:56 ◼   ► which is a longer ad-free version of the show each and every week the pro show is

01:07:02 ◼   ► awesome you don't want to miss it so join up and if you are a member thank

01:07:06 ◼   ► you so much for your support. You can find Federico's work online he is the

01:07:10 ◼   ► editor-in-chief of Mac stories dot net. If you haven't read his ivory view go

01:07:15 ◼   ► check it out. It's awesome and you really get into like, yes, this is based on Tweetbot,

01:07:19 ◼   ► but it is also its own thing. So I think that was a really excellent piece.

01:07:23 ◼   ► Yeah. And as of today, we made it even easier to find us on Mastodon. I had this idea for

01:07:32 ◼   ► like, hey, why don't I just set up like a sub domain so that like, because it's weird

01:07:38 ◼   ► when you know, we used to say, just find, you know, @Vittucci on Twitter, but that's

01:07:42 ◼   ► not possible anymore. So now if you want to find me on Mastodon, you just type into your

01:07:47 ◼   ► address bar vittici.macstories.net and you will be taken to my profile. That's it, like

01:07:53 ◼   ► vittici.macstories.net in Safari, Google Chrome, whatever.

01:07:57 ◼   ► You can find my writing over at 512pixels.net and I also co-host MacPowerUsers here on Relay

01:08:04 ◼   ► FM. Myke's not here, but he also hosts a bunch of other shows here on Relay FM and he's the

01:08:09 ◼   ► co-founder of Cortex brand. You can learn more about their theme system journal

01:08:13 ◼   ► and a whole bunch more at cortexmerch.com. I'd like to thank our sponsors this week

01:08:18 ◼   ► Squarespace and Fitbod and until next week Federico say goodbye.

01:08:23 ◼   ► Arigatou gozaimasu. Bye y'all.