423: I Know What a Parrot Is


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Real FM, this is Connected, episode 423. Today's show is brought to you by our excellent

00:00:14   sponsors Capital One, and indeed, I'm one of your co-hosts, Federico Vittucci, and it's my absolute

00:00:19   pleasure, as always every week, to be joined by my friend, Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello, Stephen.

00:00:24   Hello, Federico, how are you?

00:00:26   I am doing fantastic, how are you?

00:00:29   I am good as well. I got a notification that your calendar had been delivered. Can you verify that?

00:00:36   I can verify that my doorman got... Oh, I gotta tell you something. For reasons that will make

00:00:42   sense to people who listen to the pro show for connected pro members, Apple Mail just opened.

00:00:50   Okay, good. Well done, Apple Mail.

00:00:55   You may wonder, "Wait, why is Federico telling people that Apple Mail just opened?"

00:01:00   Well, you know, sign up and find out.

00:01:02   Where can people sign up, Myke?

00:01:03   We're doing this right away at the beginning.

00:01:05   Before I've even been introduced, get connected to pro.co.

00:01:08   Yes, and then you will get introduced.

00:01:11   And I am joined by Mr. Myke Hurley.

00:01:14   Hello!

00:01:16   Federico, you started a sentence about your doorman,

00:01:19   but then you didn't finish the sentence.

00:01:21   Yeah, you never finished.

00:01:22   Whatever the doorman.

00:01:23   Yes, so the Dormine got the very nice package that you prepared with my address on it.

00:01:31   And when I went down to walk the dogs this morning, told me there's a package for you.

00:01:36   And I was like, thank you, Mario.

00:01:38   When I come back with the dogs, I'll get the package.

00:01:41   I came back with the dogs, got the package, went upstairs, and there was the calendar

00:01:46   and the stickers that you sent me.

00:01:49   So it looks lovely.

00:01:51   It's gonna go up in my office soon-ish, as soon as we're done with furniture here.

00:01:57   And the stickers have already been placed on the Smart Cover, well, Smart Folio, that

00:02:03   I'm using with the iPad Pro.

00:02:05   So finally, Drama Free Delivery, I believe we called it on iMessage today.

00:02:13   And it's one of the many perks of having Mario downstairs, taking care of all kinds of packages

00:02:20   and envelopes for me. What other perks are there for Mario? Well, there's plenty. Like

00:02:26   all sorts of like gossip, right? Getting to know. Yeah, yeah. It's a big thing now to

00:02:33   like gossip about other people here. Like we are realizing there's a lot of like inside

00:02:39   drama, you know, with some of these people. Like for example, today we just find out,

00:02:45   I'm going to tell you guys something. So we just found out there's a, what's the name

00:02:50   of that popular service for like commenting on your neighborhood next door, next door,

00:02:57   next door. So we found out that we have like our, like our private version of next door

00:03:04   for the building. Uh, while it's two buildings, one in front of the other and we have like

00:03:09   our private, like mini social network thing where people can post messages and complain

00:03:15   about stuff and we got access today and immediately we saw a lady complaining about some people

00:03:34   throwing parrot poop onto our balcony?

00:03:39   What?

00:03:40   Apparently there's someone who is just throwing out of the window, I suppose, the things that

00:03:51   parrots, you know, the birds, like the parrots, like the colored...

00:03:57   Yeah, no, no, no, I know what a parrot is.

00:04:01   throwing the parrot poop and seeds out of the window onto this lady's balcony. And so

00:04:08   this lady, as soon as she got access to this portal today, like it literally opened two

00:04:13   hours ago, and she's already, there's already this parrot drama happening, which is super

00:04:19   exciting for me because like, one, if I was that person, that is the first thing I would

00:04:25   complain about upon getting access to this app, right? Is like this person keeps throwing

00:04:31   parrot poop on my balcony, which is just a weird, like what, what is this person doing?

00:04:37   Why are they throwing it out the window? What is wrong with them? Exactly. Like, and the

00:04:42   seeds, like obviously I want to immediately find out who has, apparently the way the message

00:04:48   was phrased multiple parrots. So like I want to... How does she know this though? Exactly

00:04:55   like and the way the way she posted this it was like super passive-aggressive like I'm

00:04:59   not gonna name names but whoever has parrots I mean how many people are gonna have parrots?

00:05:04   I mean you don't need to name names dude you've given away a pretty big clue at that point.

00:05:10   It's the guy in the building dressed like a pirate it's that guy. Oh you mean pirate

00:05:15   gym yeah so like for example so Mario as I was saying is useful for this kind of

00:05:23   gossip and just you know general bureaucracy stuff like you know

00:05:29   because it's still like these buildings are not fully finished yet some

00:05:35   apartments are already like they're still being worked on we were one of the

00:05:39   first families to enter the building this summer now of course after

00:05:44   September after the summer vacations basically plenty of people have joined

00:05:49   but like it was useful like hey I like Mario can you find one of the plumber

00:05:55   guys and and you know send one of them upstairs because I have like a leak or

00:06:01   something or can you get me like a plumber's are let me call my brother

00:06:13   he's a plumber. He dresses in green. I'm just saying more than a doorman is like

00:06:19   some kind of manager which is incredibly useful. He's a powerful individual.

00:06:25   Let's do some follow-up. How does that sound? Well did we introduce everybody?

00:06:28   Everybody got introduced? I think so. We're all been introduced, yes. Okay, that's good.

00:06:33   We've been intro'd. Okay, well speaking of packages that Mario helps you get your

00:06:38   hands on, I believe you got a slightly bigger box than my calendar. Recently you

00:06:43   you want to tell us about that? Well, in fact, this morning, as I walked downstairs, the

00:06:48   full conversation was, I have a, you know, this smaller package for you, but then when

00:06:53   you come back, I think you should go upstairs first to leave the dogs, then come back because

00:06:58   these other packages, these other boxes like pretty big and you want to make sure that

00:07:03   you can carry it without also, you know, having your dogs on a leash. So considerate. Yeah,

00:07:09   He's looking out for you.

00:07:10   He's very considerate.

00:07:11   Yeah.

00:07:12   Yeah, he is.

00:07:13   He is.

00:07:14   Looking out, Mario.

00:07:15   And I got this big box and I can tell you that right now I am looking at a beautiful

00:07:21   Apple Studio display on my desk.

00:07:25   Now it literally is on my desk because...

00:07:31   So we did a lot of research with Sylvia and like we're trying to imagine, okay, what kind

00:07:35   of desk do you want?

00:07:37   you want this office to look like. We went with the VESA mount option. I am going to

00:07:44   mount this to a wall, to the wall in front of me right now. But we're still torn between

00:07:52   two options on Amazon. We're gonna buy one tonight. But in the meantime, I mean, the

00:07:56   display arrived, so I figured, you know, I'm just gonna very carefully place it on my desk

00:08:01   can, you know, and obviously it's like touching the wall right now at a slight angle so it

00:08:07   doesn't tip over. Otherwise we're going to mount it to a wall. We're going to get one

00:08:10   of those like extendable arms that lets you do like, you know, tilt it and move it around.

00:08:17   I believe it also supports rotation. So if the arm is long enough, like I could realistically

00:08:25   like extend it to the side of the desk and then flip it to portrait mode, which is something

00:08:30   that the studio display can do it actually the text rotation which it's

00:08:35   not something that I think I'm gonna do all the time but it's cool to have the

00:08:38   option I suppose. So you can watch your YouTube shorts and stuff? Exactly like

00:08:45   full screen portrait mode YouTube shorts you know take like a scroll 70 tweets

00:08:51   all at once like that kind of stuff. Yeah I mean why not you know just I'm just

00:08:58   just gonna be like a Bloomberg terminal, but just for my tweets. And yeah, I mean, it looks

00:09:04   fantastic. It's got that nice clean design that I was hoping it would have. I mean, I

00:09:11   did go to the Apple Store to check it out beforehand to make sure, hey, am I convinced

00:09:17   that this is the thing I'm buying? And I checked it out at the Apple Store. It looked amazing.

00:09:20   I was like, yep, I want this. It's glorious because I'm literally just running a single

00:09:25   cable, a single Thunderbolt cable, and I can place my iPad Pro, or in this case the Macbook

00:09:31   Pro, I can just swap the computer and I can use it regardless because of Stage Manager,

00:09:38   which is not great, but it kind of works. And of course on Mac OS it's much better.

00:09:43   The only, I mean besides the missing wall mount, which should be here later this week

00:09:50   I hope. So I will again very carefully drill two holes into the wall, or four, depending

00:09:57   on how many are required, and I'll get that done.

00:10:02   Just one.

00:10:03   But the only thing...

00:10:04   That's fine. That's where the rotation comes in. The whole thing just falls off the wall.

00:10:09   The one thing I'm struggling with right now, which is why I tweeted it this afternoon,

00:10:15   switching with the... I have a Bluetooth Magic Keyboard. Like, I have an external Magic Keyboard

00:10:19   and a Magic trackpad. The new ones with the trackpad that is slightly more rounded than

00:10:25   before and the Magic keyboard that has Touch ID. It sucks that if I want to use them wirelessly,

00:10:33   it's not that easy at all to switch them between a MacBook and an iPad. They don't support

00:10:40   multi-device pairing, so each time you've got to disconnect one device, put the accessory

00:10:47   in pairing mode and pair it again with the second device, which is not something I'm

00:10:52   gonna do. Or I could do what my friend Chris Lawley is doing, like get dedicated pairs

00:11:00   of keyboard and trackpad, one for the MacBook, one for the iPad, which is like... I mean,

00:11:05   I have a spare Magic Keyboard and a spare Magic Trackpad, the older ones, but I don't

00:11:12   really want to do that either. So for now I'm using them in wired mode. They are wired

00:11:20   into the studio display, which is also serving as a hub, I guess. And then, depending on

00:11:26   the computer I plug in, they pair with that computer. Which works. It's not ideal. I would

00:11:34   have preferred a wire-free look on the desk, but I'm open to suggestions. And no, I don't

00:11:41   want to use other pointing devices because they're not as accurate or fast

00:11:46   or reliable as the Magic Trackpad, but I don't think I have other options.

00:11:51   All I was gonna suggest is if you like to make it because wired I think is your

00:11:55   only real option here if you wired them into a dock it might be tidier and you

00:12:02   could still go one cable from the display to the dock because especially

00:12:06   if you're on the VESA arm you don't want to be moving the arm around if it's got

00:12:11   tons of cables attached to it like you would drag in the keyboard along the desk when you

00:12:17   go into portrait mode. So I would recommend using a dock of some kind, a Thunderbolt dock,

00:12:22   and then just having one cable to the dock and then the wires going into the dock for

00:12:27   the keyboard and mouse.

00:12:29   What is a good Thunderbolt dock for the studio display?

00:12:33   I like the OWC one.

00:12:35   That one's good.

00:12:36   Give me the best dock. What is the absolute best dock?

00:12:39   Okay, I'm looking for the link because we talked about it on another show.

00:12:44   Is it the CalDigit thing?

00:12:45   Yes, the little one though.

00:12:47   Not like the TS4, but...

00:12:49   The little one?

00:12:50   Yeah, they have one...

00:12:51   I like that it's little.

00:12:52   Okay.

00:12:53   Thunderbolt 4 Element Hub.

00:12:55   That's what you want.

00:12:56   I'll send you a link right now.

00:13:00   All I'm going to say is I had a lot of problems with the TS3 and I have no problems with the

00:13:05   OWC dock.

00:13:07   the OWC dock. Oh, I like this. This looks nice. Delivery on Friday. So, what am I...

00:13:16   Okay, so, CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 element hub. So, explain this to me. I'm gonna run a Thunderbolt

00:13:26   cable from the computer that I'm using to the hub. And then, from the hub to the studio

00:13:33   display another Thunderbolt cable. Yep. That's it? That's it. And then you can plug the keyboard

00:13:39   and trackpad or anything else into the dock. It has USB-A ports in front? Yeah, but I mean

00:13:47   it's... No. You got a million USB-A to lightning cables for your stuff. But they're not braided

00:13:53   like the nice ones I have. Yeah, that's true. There's a lot, I mean you really can't get

00:13:57   wrong with any of these I don't think, but I've heard good things about the Element Hub.

00:14:02   Okay, all right. Well, I'll do some research I guess but yeah. Well, I mean you have

00:14:07   four

00:14:09   Thunderbolt 4 ports, right? So you could plug the keyboard and mouse into the Thunderbolt port which is

00:14:14   Overkill. No, I have three USB-C. No, there's three. There's three ports

00:14:19   I'm looking at their page and it says four times Thunderbolt 4 so I don't know why it says that then

00:14:24   Yeah, the Amazon picture shows

00:14:27   Three. Oh, yeah, cuz you got one that goes out to the computer on the side

00:14:31   Oh is there one on the side? Yeah yeah. Oh oh okay. Who's the Mac power user now?

00:14:40   Hmm. So there's one because there's always on these hubs you always have like a one dedicated port

00:14:47   which is labeled as computer. I don't know why but like there's always like you must plug the

00:14:52   computer into this one and so then you could put the display on one of them and then the keyboard

00:14:58   and the mouse on the other two.

00:15:01   It's overkill to be plugging a magic keyboard

00:15:05   into a Thunderbolt 4 port, but it will do the job.

00:15:08   Oh, wow, they also have a 500 euro dock

00:15:12   called the CalDigit TS4.

00:15:15   Yeah, that has--

00:15:16   Oh, is this the one that Casey likes?

00:15:18   It's this one, right?

00:15:20   I think so, and it's got like SD and ethernet,

00:15:23   and it has a bunch of other stuff

00:15:25   that you probably don't need.

00:15:28   I mean, I do... Internet would be cool.

00:15:30   But it does have a couple of USB-C ports on the front, so...

00:15:33   Yeah.

00:15:33   It's ugly though, compared to the other one.

00:15:37   Well, it's very industrial.

00:15:40   We'll call it that.

00:15:42   What's the difference between...

00:15:44   It would fit with some of your audio gear though, I think, visually.

00:15:47   With all the ridges.

00:15:48   [Laughter]

00:15:49   Yeah, that's right.

00:15:50   Lots of ridges.

00:15:50   Heat fins, baby!

00:15:51   [Laughter]

00:15:53   Look at this, look at this.

00:15:55   Ethernet. How many Thunderbolt? Oh, USB-C data.

00:16:00   Audio in and out. I mean, it has all sorts of stuff.

00:16:03   What's the difference between a,

00:16:04   between a CalDigit TS4 and a CalDigit TS3?

00:16:08   Do I care about that difference?

00:16:12   Yeah, I think it's Thunderbolt 3 versus Thunderbolt 4,

00:16:15   which I think in practice doesn't matter for what you're doing.

00:16:19   I'm not gonna do like, uh, you know,

00:16:22   I'm not going to transfer video projects between computers.

00:16:27   Right.

00:16:28   40 gigabits a second, right?

00:16:31   No, because I mean, it's like a...

00:16:33   Right, but if you ever want to, you know what I mean?

00:16:37   Now, you know, you're putting yourself into a situation where you can't, so...

00:16:40   And I mean, the TS4 has an extra Thunderbolt port.

00:16:44   You guys are bad for me.

00:16:46   Why am I still doing this show?

00:16:47   Well, you can spend money on apps, on docs.

00:16:53   Anyway, I got a studio display.

00:16:54   It's very cool.

00:16:55   I love it.

00:16:56   It's nice.

00:16:57   I will update you on something else that I am researching.

00:17:04   I got the proper adapters and everything,

00:17:06   but I still need to test it.

00:17:08   I think I should be able to use an Apple TV with the studio

00:17:14   display as well.

00:17:17   found this company that makes an HDMI to Thunderbolt video adapter.

00:17:22   And because the idea was like, and also why we're getting the VESA arm,

00:17:27   this is gonna double as a guest bedroom.

00:17:31   If we ever happen to have, you know, like my mom or something,

00:17:36   like someone that needs to sleep here. And the idea was, well,

00:17:40   what if the studio display, I mean, it's big enough and it looks very nice.

00:17:44   what if we could double as like an entertainment monitor

00:17:49   for things like what if you wanna watch something

00:17:53   on Netflix or YouTube, whatever.

00:17:57   So I should be able to use that.

00:18:00   I mean, in that case, I'm not gonna work in the office

00:18:02   if we have a guest, but that's fine.

00:18:04   And if we can connect an Apple TV to it,

00:18:08   they also have like, they can watch a movie or something

00:18:12   before bed.

00:18:13   So that requires an adapter though and I still, I have it, it arrived, but I still have not tested it.

00:18:20   I'll be interested to hear if that works just because I didn't even think that that was a possibility.

00:18:25   What do you think about the speakers in the studio display?

00:18:28   From what I heard today, 30 seconds, they sounded really nice with more bass than I was expecting,

00:18:37   but I have not listened to a song yet. I was just watching a video on Twitter.

00:18:42   And I was like, oh, this is louder than I thought.

00:18:46   But yeah, I have not really tested them.

00:18:50   I like them. I like the studio display speakers quite a lot for video and stuff.

00:18:56   It's the webcam that is bad, right?

00:18:59   Yes, for me. Yeah. I mean, it's bad in general, but it's especially bad for me.

00:19:03   The flickering with the 50Hz.

00:19:06   Yeah, the flickering.

00:19:08   Let's see, does it flicker for me? Like, I just open FaceTime.

00:19:13   You probably don't have that issue. I only have that issue specifically because I have fluorescent overhead lighting in the studio.

00:19:20   That doesn't happen to me at home.

00:19:23   It's the fluorescent lighting that it doesn't like specifically for me.

00:19:27   Alright, well, I'll continue talking about this over the next few weeks as I figure out my new life with a new desk and a display and multiple computers.

00:19:38   and I guess a Thunderbolt dock.

00:19:41   So, because you guys made me do this, so.

00:19:44   - It's gonna be sweet, man.

00:19:44   I can't wait till you get it all going.

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00:21:03   link in the show notes. Capital One, what's in your wallet?

00:21:08   I have a question for the two of you. I put a link into the show notes, which is a tweet

00:21:13   from listener Edward, who used a web service that I don't really understand called Tweet

00:21:22   Hunter to generate some AI tweets from the three of us. Did either of you spend much

00:21:28   time looking at that?

00:21:29   I saw that.

00:21:31   You can answer honestly.

00:21:32   It's pretty wild.

00:21:33   you I just want to know like did you spend any time reading them today not

00:21:37   today no it wasn't the other day Federico I I haven't read them at all

00:21:42   that's really good so it's time for quiz oh no oh my god so you didn't do your

00:21:54   homework because now look what's happened to you so listen to Edward so

00:21:59   this is the quizzes welcome back to the quizzes this is the long-running quiz

00:22:02   show here on Connected where I surprise my co-hosts with random quiz rounds.

00:22:07   Today we're going to be playing a game of trying to guess who would potentially

00:22:13   tweet something based on an AI. So I assume what's happened here is that this

00:22:20   website looks at our tweets and then tries to create new tweets from that

00:22:26   information. I would say that these are interesting to dubious in the

00:22:30   effectiveness I am going to read a tweet and I want each of you to take a guess

00:22:36   as to which one of the three of us this AI believes that this tweet would work

00:22:41   for does that make sense okay yeah the first tweet I've lost the link oh here

00:22:48   it is the first tweet what a question I hope iOS 14.2 fixes it shrug emoji

00:22:55   Steven which one of the three of us said that there are 200 points available for

00:23:00   each correct answer. The emoji makes me think that it's you so I'm gonna say one

00:23:06   Myke Hurley. Federico who do you think it was? Can you read it again please? Yep.

00:23:11   What a question! I hope iOS 14.2 fixes it. Shrug emoji. I think I said it. You would

00:23:19   be correct. It's 200 points for Federico. That was indeed an expected Federico

00:23:25   tweet. Tweet number two. I produce a lot of podcasts but I'm really bad at

00:23:31   remembering to tweet about them so I'm trying out a new service called Tweet

00:23:35   Deck. It's basically a Twitter client for your desktop. Stephen who said, who is

00:23:40   believed to have said this? Federico. Okay Federico who do you think said this?

00:23:46   I produce a lot of podcasts. I produce a lot of podcasts but I'm really bad at

00:23:53   remembering to tweet about them.

00:23:55   So I'm trying out a new service called TweetDeck.

00:23:57   It's basically a Twitter client for your desktop.

00:24:00   - I think Myke said it.

00:24:02   - Federico, he's another one, that's correct again.

00:24:05   Another 200 points to Federico.

00:24:07   - Nice.

00:24:08   - I should have given,

00:24:09   I didn't give a score update before we began.

00:24:12   - Oh yeah.

00:24:13   - It was 500 and, sorry, 5,673 points to Steven.

00:24:18   4,401 points to Federico,

00:24:23   which is obviously now 4,601 points to Federico

00:24:28   as he just scored 400 points in total there so far.

00:24:31   This could be where you pick up your lead again Federico.

00:24:36   We'll find out.

00:24:37   - I feel like we've had point inflation as we've gone on.

00:24:40   - Yes, yeah, yeah.

00:24:41   I messed it up.

00:24:42   I gave some large points to some things

00:24:47   and I think the two of you scored way better

00:24:50   in that round than I expected

00:24:51   and it destroyed the scoring.

00:24:54   So like at some point,

00:24:55   there's gonna be like a Thanos-like situation

00:24:58   and we're gonna start again.

00:24:59   But like now I have to just give high points for everything.

00:25:03   So 200 points is what's available.

00:25:06   The next tweet is,

00:25:08   "Today is Monday.

00:25:10   "It's Monday, Monday, Monday, Monday, Monday, Monday."

00:25:13   (laughing)

00:25:14   Who said it?

00:25:15   Who would say this?

00:25:17   Stephen, who would say that?

00:25:18   - Sounds like me.

00:25:20   - Okay.

00:25:21   Federico?

00:25:22   I'm gonna go with Steven.

00:25:24   You're both wrong, that was another Myke tweet.

00:25:26   Today is Monday.

00:25:27   It's Monday Monday Monday Monday Monday Monday.

00:25:31   Monday Monday Monday Monday.

00:25:32   Alright, the next one.

00:25:34   Okay.

00:25:35   Wow.

00:25:36   Yeah, comma, I was at Apple's keynote today.

00:25:40   Who said that?

00:25:45   That's it?

00:25:46   That's the sentence?

00:25:47   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:25:48   I was at Apple's keynote today.

00:25:51   I'm gonna go with me again.

00:25:52   - Okay, Federico?

00:25:54   - I think I said it.

00:25:56   - That was a Steven tweet.

00:25:58   As we know, Steven likes to rub it in.

00:26:00   That he's, that he won't turn up.

00:26:01   - Even the AI knows. - You're right.

00:26:03   - Even the AI knows.

00:26:04   Next one is,

00:26:06   one, I want a 10.5 inch iPad.

00:26:11   Two, I want a 10.5 inch iPad with touch ID.

00:26:15   Three, I want a 10.5 inch iPad with a headphone jack.

00:26:19   Four, I want a 10.5 inch iPad with a USB-C port.

00:26:24   Five, I want a 10.5 inch.

00:26:27   - It just stops, how long is this list?

00:26:34   - It just stops, it stops at five and five ends

00:26:36   says I want a 10.5 inch, that's it, it just stops.

00:26:39   Steven, who said that?

00:26:42   Well, who is expected to have said that?

00:26:44   - Wow, go with Federico.

00:26:47   Okay Federico. Yeah I think I said it. That's 200 points each for the two of you.

00:26:55   Yeah, making a list about the iPad and you know something I would do.

00:27:01   Max stories is well known for its listicles. Yes.

00:27:05   Alright, this tweet reads

00:27:13   This goes on about for 15 more times.

00:27:16   I wondered if I could get through it and I can't get through it.

00:27:18   So that's the tweet, that's the entire tweet.

00:27:21   3.1 and then there's like 20 of them.

00:27:24   Wow.

00:27:25   Steven, whose tweet is that?

00:27:28   That's me.

00:27:29   Okay.

00:27:30   I think that's Myke.

00:27:32   That was a Steven tweet.

00:27:33   But now it's 600 points apiece.

00:27:35   So I'm going to emphasize capitals by shouting.

00:27:41   Here's the tweet.

00:27:44   The June 2018 new music playlist is here.

00:27:48   That's Federico.

00:27:50   Okay.

00:27:51   Yeah, I think that's me.

00:27:53   No, that was a mic tweet.

00:27:55   Really?

00:27:57   Apparently, yeah.

00:27:59   2018 is the year of the podcast.

00:28:03   It's true. I'm gonna go with Myke. Okay. I'm gonna go with Steven. That was a Myke tweet.

00:28:13   That was another... I'm not gonna read it but there are four tweets in my

00:28:17   selection here that all have 2018 in them. What were you doing four years ago?

00:28:23   Don't know. Tweeting a lot I suppose. Yeah, aren't we all. Alright, ready for the next one.

00:28:29   This tweet says "Okay, now the HomePod. I'm betting Apple will release a Plus model at

00:28:35   some point, a smaller, cheaper model with two tweeters and three midwoofers for around

00:28:40   $300, around $200 for the 3.5 model, a larger, non-speaker included model that has the same

00:28:49   speakers as the..."

00:28:51   [laughter]

00:28:52   That's a fantastic tweet.

00:28:57   That's a good one. I'm gonna read it again because it's just fun.

00:29:00   Okay, now the HomePod. I'm betting Apple will release a Plus model at some point,

00:29:05   a smaller, cheaper model with two tweeters and three midwoofers for around $300,

00:29:10   around $200 for the 3.5 model, a larger, non-speaker included model that has the same speakers as the...

00:29:17   I know how it ends.

00:29:19   Steven, who said that?

00:29:22   As the...

00:29:23   As the...

00:29:23   As the...

00:29:24   As the...

00:29:26   As the...

00:29:26   I'm gonna go with Myke. Okay, Federico? I guess the question is the AI must

00:29:36   have seen the data. So who amongst the three of us used before in tweets the

00:29:43   words "tweeters" and "midwoofers," right? I don't think I ever have. Oh yeah. I don't

00:29:50   I think I ever have used those words.

00:29:53   Those strike me as Steven words.

00:29:57   So I'm gonna go with Steven.

00:29:59   - You're both wrong.

00:30:00   That is a Federico tweet.

00:30:02   You're always talking about midwoofers.

00:30:04   - Oh my God.

00:30:05   What, when?

00:30:09   Hold on.

00:30:09   - I don't know.

00:30:10   - How is it from?

00:30:12   Be teaching.

00:30:14   - Midwoofers.

00:30:15   I think, what is a midwoofer?

00:30:16   Is that even a thing?

00:30:17   How is it, how is, is it mid dash woofer?

00:30:22   Or just one word?

00:30:23   - Yeah, mid dash woofer.

00:30:24   - Dash woofers.

00:30:25   - No, it's a hyphenated mid woofers.

00:30:28   Yeah.

00:30:30   - I never tweeted this word.

00:30:33   So the AI made it up.

00:30:36   - Mixing and matching things in.

00:30:37   I've got another one for you.

00:30:41   Oh, and that $10,000 12.9 inch iPad Pro.

00:30:46   It's $1,099.

00:30:49   Ooh, that's a good deal.

00:30:52   That's a discount.

00:30:55   Can you read it again, please?

00:30:57   Oh, and that $10,000 12.9 inch iPad Pro?

00:31:01   It's $1,099.

00:31:02   Who tweeted that, Steven?

00:31:05   It's like 90% off.

00:31:07   I think that's me.

00:31:09   Okay, Federico?

00:31:10   Yeah, I'm gonna go with Steven.

00:31:13   That's true.

00:31:14   even loves a deal. Alright, we're gonna do two more, alright? When I got my first job,

00:31:21   it wasn't a dream, it was an internship.

00:31:24   [Laughter]

00:31:30   Why? It wasn't a dream, it wasn't an internship?

00:31:36   It was an internship.

00:31:37   It was an internship.

00:31:38   That's not a dream.

00:31:39   [Laughter]

00:31:41   When I got my first job...

00:31:43   Man, I don't know.

00:31:46   I'm gonna go with Myke.

00:31:49   - Okay.

00:31:50   Federico?

00:31:52   - I'm gonna go with me, Federico.

00:31:56   - It was Myke.

00:31:57   So now Steven is leading 1200 to 800.

00:32:01   - I cannot win in this game.

00:32:03   - You cannot win, but you can get closer.

00:32:06   This is the final one.

00:32:08   So I just got my flu shot and I want everyone to know

00:32:11   that the doctor told me it would wear off after two weeks,

00:32:15   but it's still stuck in my head.

00:32:17   - Oh no.

00:32:19   - Stuck in my head?

00:32:21   - So I just got my flu shot and I want everyone to know

00:32:24   that the doctor told me it would wear off after two weeks,

00:32:27   but it's still stuck in my head.

00:32:29   - So this is vaccine misinformation.

00:32:32   - Well, maybe, yeah.

00:32:34   So who would do that, the three of us?

00:32:37   - I don't think either of y'all would tweet about flu shots.

00:32:41   I'm going to say it's me.

00:32:42   Okay.

00:32:42   Federico?

00:32:43   Yeah, I'm going to go with Steven too.

00:32:45   Yeah.

00:32:46   You were both correct.

00:32:47   So that comes out at 1400 points to Steven.

00:32:53   Boom.

00:32:53   1000 points to Federico.

00:32:56   So the current scores are Federico at 5201 points.

00:33:03   Steven at 7073 points.

00:33:07   Thank you both for...

00:33:10   It's impossible for me.

00:33:11   Well, I mean, who knows?

00:33:13   I might do a 1,000 point round at some point, you know?

00:33:16   You can never know with me.

00:33:18   Thank you both for playing the quizzies.

00:33:20   I am ready to concede if necessary.

00:33:23   You know, I got my speech all good to go.

00:33:28   Like, you know.

00:33:30   Maybe it will end at the end of the year

00:33:32   and then we'll start a new year's points, right?

00:33:36   I haven't decided yet.

00:33:37   And we should say we're gonna put the link to

00:33:40   Edward Munn's tweet thread in the show notes so you can see all these but only look at it after the quiz

00:33:47   Don't look at it now. Don't look at it before I've done this in the wrong order. Okay, I want to talk about an air tag

00:33:54   Alternative. How does that sound? Does that sound good? Intriguing. Intriguing. So

00:34:00   How do you pronounce this company name? Yuffie? I think it's Yuffie. Yeah, I hear youtubers say Yuffie

00:34:07   So yeah, that's all that's how sparks does it so I'll go with it

00:34:10   They make a bunch of stuff that make some home kits cure video cameras and other things and they have

00:34:16   the smart track link

00:34:19   Not a great name item tracker. So it works with the find my app and the whole find my network

00:34:26   It's like a round rect

00:34:29   Air tag, but it has a hole punch through it

00:34:32   So you don't need to like put it in a case, right?

00:34:34   That's part of the deal with the air tags, right? Unless you just put it in your pocket

00:34:37   you need something to attach it to something else.

00:34:40   But this is another alternative

00:34:43   and it's got some cool features.

00:34:44   It has a built-in speaker.

00:34:46   It has the same CR2032 battery.

00:34:49   So the little kind of watch battery you can put in it

00:34:52   after about a year.

00:34:53   And it's 20 bucks as opposed to $29 for an AirTag.

00:34:58   This is not the first thing we've seen

00:35:01   that's fine to my compatible.

00:35:03   Remember there's like that smart bike that I really want

00:35:05   and there's the Chipolo One spot,

00:35:10   and then they also make the key card,

00:35:12   like credit card sizing, you can put in your wallet.

00:35:15   But it's another option.

00:35:16   And if you're kind of annoyed that AirTags

00:35:19   require something else to make them useful

00:35:21   on a key chain or something,

00:35:22   and you don't care about the U1

00:35:25   like extreme up close tracking,

00:35:28   then this seems like a pretty good deal.

00:35:30   - Yeah, I think that the U1 support is,

00:35:34   I think is a $10 differentiator.

00:35:37   I think that that's kind of about right price-wise.

00:35:43   Like this is good for a bunch of reasons.

00:35:45   You can also use the UFE app.

00:35:46   They'll also work on Android.

00:35:48   They have a cool thing.

00:35:49   They have a QR code on the back that you can scan

00:35:52   and it gives the information of the person

00:35:54   whose tracker it is.

00:35:55   Like that's kind of like a clever little feature.

00:35:57   - That's cool.

00:35:58   - And 20 bucks is like, that's good, right?

00:36:00   It's a good deal.

00:36:01   And as you say, Steven, it's like,

00:36:03   it's an easier way to get in for less money

00:36:06   'cause you don't have to buy something to hook it on

00:36:08   and also it's just easy to put it on a key chain or whatever.

00:36:11   And so as a replacement for a tile tracker or whatever,

00:36:16   that's great 'cause it's in the Fire My Network

00:36:19   and it's 20 bucks, but there is still a jump

00:36:23   to what the AirTag does.

00:36:25   And as a reminder, the U1 thing is like,

00:36:28   Bluetooth will only get you so far,

00:36:29   probably within 10 feet or whatever,

00:36:31   and then it's trying to help you find it

00:36:33   with the Bluetooth signal,

00:36:35   but it's not completely precise.

00:36:37   Where the, when you have the U1 tracking,

00:36:40   at a certain point that takes over from Bluetooth

00:36:42   and can direct you perfectly to where the item is.

00:36:46   So, you know, it depends on the item, right?

00:36:50   Like if you're putting it on a suitcase,

00:36:52   you probably don't need the U1,

00:36:54   but if you are putting it on a bunch of keys,

00:36:57   you might want it 'cause keys are small,

00:36:58   they could fall somewhere, right?

00:37:00   So your mileage might vary.

00:37:02   - Yeah, I'm just glad that the Find My network

00:37:04   continues to expand.

00:37:07   I am a big fan of the Chipolo Wallet Finder.

00:37:10   It's very similar to this.

00:37:11   It's really loud, which is nice.

00:37:13   So if, even though it doesn't have the U1,

00:37:16   like it's really noisy if you open Find My

00:37:19   and tell it to make noise.

00:37:21   But yeah, it's just cool that we're seeing

00:37:22   additional things come out for this network

00:37:24   because it is a very useful feature,

00:37:28   very useful thing to have all your stuff be trackable. Do you use the wallet finder in

00:37:34   your wallet? So I am it was in my old wallet I switched to a Bellroy like super slim one

00:37:40   and it doesn't fit. Yeah so that's why I asked. Maybe I just rubber band it's in my desk right

00:37:45   now my desk drawer. Right. But I do I am sad that doesn't fit that was one bummer going

00:37:49   to the more minimal wallet.

00:37:51   Hmm.

00:37:52   Hashtag minimalism.

00:37:53   Hmm.

00:37:54   Okay.

00:37:55   Hmm.

00:37:56   Hmm.

00:37:57   Interesting.

00:37:58   Oh, Federico, do you still use the magnetic wallet?

00:38:02   No, no, I told you months ago I stopped.

00:38:06   Was it the one?

00:38:07   Because you did the case thing for a while.

00:38:10   You still doing that?

00:38:11   What is the case?

00:38:12   Oh no, I stopped doing that also like two years ago.

00:38:17   It was all because of COVID, because of, it became kind of mandatory to carry around.

00:38:26   We have, it's not like an ID, but it's like this, it's like a, like a health card basically

00:38:35   that has like the equivalent of, I guess, a social security number, but it's not really

00:38:41   a social security number and it's got a chip in it.

00:38:44   You can basically use it at hospitals or pharmacies or other places where you're either buying

00:38:53   medicines or booking appointments to identify yourself in the Italian health system.

00:39:02   And that became mandatory to carry around.

00:39:04   And so that became the fourth card that I needed to have on me at all times.

00:39:10   But all these wallets, both the case thing and the MagSafe one, which I loved, but they're

00:39:17   all limited to three cards.

00:39:20   And so if I wanted to have my ID, my debit card, my credit card, and the health card,

00:39:28   I needed to look at something else.

00:39:30   So I got one of those cheap wallets from Amazon that has like a little button that you press

00:39:37   and it pushes out the cards.

00:39:39   And I really like it. I've been using that for like six months. At some point it'll break,

00:39:46   I guess. It's like the stitching is coming apart on one side. But I mean, I paid like

00:39:51   12 euros for it. It's like a no-brand thing, and it's fine. I'm open to suggestions. I

00:39:58   really like this one because it's super compact. It can store three cards in the metallic structure,

00:40:06   And then you can place two more in an outer, like in a different pocket of the wallet when

00:40:13   you fold it open.

00:40:15   It's got like this little section for two more cards.

00:40:17   And you can even store some cash in it.

00:40:21   It's got like a smaller compartment where you can fit like a couple of bills or something

00:40:25   like that.

00:40:26   It's very nice, it's very compact, and then you can fold it close and it's got this button

00:40:30   at the bottom that you push it and it pops out the cards that you want to pick up like

00:40:34   your credit card for example.

00:40:36   I like it, but I've been wondering about this AirTag compatibility thing.

00:40:42   It would be nice to have...

00:40:44   Because I am extremely paranoid about losing my wallet.

00:40:47   I'm one of those people who constantly double-check in my pockets if I have still my wallet on

00:40:51   me and my car keys on me.

00:40:54   So if anyone has a recommendation for something that is compact...

00:40:59   Not too expensive, because I really don't want to spend like $200 on a wallet.

00:41:03   I understand why lots of people do.

00:41:05   I don't particularly care.

00:41:07   It's more the utility of it.

00:41:09   If there's a way for me to have something compact

00:41:11   that lets me store four cards, some cash,

00:41:14   and an air tag, send a link my way, maybe, you know,

00:41:19   would you be so kind to send me a link?

00:41:21   Yeah.

00:41:23   That'd be nice.

00:41:24   Yeah, that'd be cool.

00:41:25   But to answer your question, Myke,

00:41:26   no, I'm not using the Macs.

00:41:28   (laughing)

00:41:30   Federico, you have launched Apple Frames

00:41:35   3.0, which is your massive shortcut where people can take screenshots and embed them in

00:41:42   Apple devices. So I can take a screenshot of my iPhone and then run it through this shortcut,

00:41:47   and it has like the iPhone border around it. Tell us a little bit about how this works and then,

00:41:55   you know, why 3.0 is here. Yeah, so you may remember I launched version 2.0,

00:42:05   last year and that also was a major update to Apple Frames based on a new structure.

00:42:10   And that version worked well, I would say, for the past year, actually maybe more, like 15 months or

00:42:20   something. All the problems started when I began working on adding support for the iPhone 14 Pro

00:42:26   family and the new multiple display resolution modes. If you recall, that version of Apple

00:42:34   frames was based on a single JSON file that contained a lot of Base64.

00:42:43   Base64, one of the recurring in-jokes of this program, is a technique that lets you turn files,

00:42:53   like images, into plain text. It does that by using its own algorithm that encodes a file into

00:43:04   a bunch of random text that is incredibly long, like hundreds of

00:43:09   thousands of characters long. And when you deal with those kinds of strings of

00:43:14   texts that are incredibly long, plain text can get surprisingly large. To give

00:43:23   some context, I was dealing with a 45, 46 megabyte plain text file, which if you know

00:43:35   plain text, you know that 46 megabyte for a plain text file is wild. BBEdit was the

00:43:42   only app I could use to open that file, and even BBEdit was like super snappy at navigating

00:43:51   that file. But it got to a point where all the solutions that I was using before, like

00:43:56   the excellent JSON app by Simon Storring, it just couldn't open the file anymore. As soon as I added

00:44:03   the iPhone 14 Pro and the Pro Max frames, JSON was crashing on launch every single time I opened

00:44:11   the file. So for like a month I struggled to get this to work, because I reached the point where

00:44:20   Even I couldn't debug the file and the shortcut anymore.

00:44:25   And even I, so, and that was the worst part.

00:44:28   I couldn't get the frames out of the file anymore,

00:44:33   because I couldn't open the file

00:44:35   and I couldn't copy the text.

00:44:37   And every time I opened it, it would crash.

00:44:39   So like, it was like all my work was prisoner of base64.

00:44:44   It was like, how can I do this?

00:44:46   So it took me like a week to scroll manually with BBEdit all the sections of the base64

00:44:56   and manually copy the bits in between the double quotes. And as you can imagine, like,

00:45:04   scrolling a single frame took me like 20 minutes. And I wasted so much time.

00:45:12   But basically, eventually, I was able to take all the data out of the JSON file,

00:45:18   and I realized, you know, this is impossible. I know that I redid this shortcut last year,

00:45:25   but if I want to make this easier for me to maintain and to add more stuff in the future,

00:45:33   I need to stop using Base64. Plain text is not the way to go with this anymore. I need to use

00:45:40   actual PNG image files stored somewhere in the file system. So Apple Frames 3 has a brand new

00:45:48   structure. When you download it, it installs a folder for you. Well, first it downloads a zip

00:45:55   archive from MacStories. It takes care of unzipping that archive, and it just installs a folder

00:46:04   in iCoud Drive shortcuts called Frames, that contains all the things that the shortcut needs,

00:46:11   all the images and all the coordinates and all the other information that are required.

00:46:16   And that, as soon as I figured out that structure, that opened a whole new world of possibilities for

00:46:24   me, because it's now so much easier for me to add new devices to Apple Frames. I don't have to deal

00:46:31   with encoding and decoding anymore, I can just take the PNG that Sylvia prepares for me, drop it into a folder,

00:46:39   and add the coordinates for pasting the screenshots on top of the frame in a text file that is super lightweight.

00:46:48   To prove my point, I'm already working on version 3.1 of Apple Frames that will bring back compatibility with the 13-inch MacBook Pro,

00:46:58   which I removed a while back. I got a bunch of requests from people, and, surprisingly,

00:47:05   I got like five different people asking me about this already. The iPhone 8 Plus. Don't

00:47:12   ask me why. I got a bunch of requests, and I figured, you know, now that I have this

00:47:17   simple structure that makes it so easy to add new stuff, why not? So, I'm already working

00:47:23   version 3.1. And yeah, so there was technically, like, from the behind the scenes point of view,

00:47:30   there was a lesson to be learned there about, you know, Base64 can be useful, but don't overdo it,

00:47:36   and I definitely overdid it for a long time. Initially, the shortcut was storing the Base64

00:47:44   inside the shortcut itself, and then it became an external file, but even that was not

00:47:52   good enough for me. Brief aside, shortcuts should really offer you the ability to store assets

00:47:59   inside a shortcut that you want to share with other people. This is one of the things that,

00:48:04   Steven, I'm sure you know about this. Automator has offered this functionality for decades.

00:48:10   Yeah, forever.

00:48:11   If you have resources that you need to store in an Automator workflow, like, "Hey, users need this

00:48:19   PDF document or they need this PNG,

00:48:23   you can store that.

00:48:24   You can store those resources inside the workflow

00:48:28   that you share with people.

00:48:30   Automator has this, Shortcut does not.

00:48:33   And so I had to do this thing where like,

00:48:35   I'm hosting the assets on my CDN

00:48:39   and the Shortcut has to download those

00:48:42   and install those for people in iCODE drive.

00:48:44   I mean, none of this is ideal for people, but.

00:48:49   or your hosting bill, probably.

00:48:51   - To talk about the new stuff,

00:48:53   full support for the dynamic island,

00:48:55   iPhone 14 Pro and Pro Max in both orientations.

00:48:59   M2 MacBook Air, Myke was kind enough

00:49:02   to lend his screenshot taking skills to the cause.

00:49:07   I was able to add support for the M2 MacBook Air

00:49:10   because of the kind help of Myke sending me screenshots.

00:49:14   What else?

00:49:16   Oh yeah, and I figured while I was at it, you know, I added support for default and

00:49:26   more space resolutions, both on iPadOS 16 and on macOS.

00:49:32   So all the Mac models supported by Apple Frames, you can now frame those screenshots, whether

00:49:40   you use default resolution or more space resolution.

00:49:42   I forgot where...

00:49:43   Oh, there's a new action.

00:49:46   have this new Quick Save to Finder or Files, so if you want to save like, I don't know,

00:49:53   five screenshots with a single command without having to rename each of them, which was the

00:49:59   case before, now you can just press the Quick Save button and you're going to save all of

00:50:04   those framed images all at once. Yeah, that's about it. Oh, and Apple Watch Ultra, Apple

00:50:10   Watch Ultra as well. But I'm already working on version 3.1 of Apple Frames, and I mean,

00:50:16   I'm pretty much done. As I mentioned, I'm going to restore support for the 13-inch

00:50:21   Micro Pro, bring back the iPhone 8 Plus. But I also had this idea for this new feature.

00:50:28   Again, this new foundation of Apple Frames makes it so much easier for me to add stuff.

00:50:34   And one of the first things I want to add is this feature that I called "Input Macros."

00:50:41   The idea being that you can use Apple Frames manually, like you always have. You just run

00:50:47   it manually from the shortcuts app, from the home screen, as a widget, whatever, and it'll

00:50:55   continue working. But I figured out a system to trigger Apple Frames in different ways.

00:51:06   I will release this utility shortcuts

00:51:09   that lets you trigger Apple frames in different modes,

00:51:13   I guess.

00:51:14   For example, one of them is run Apple frames,

00:51:18   but just get the image that I have in the clipboard

00:51:23   and frame that.

00:51:24   Like don't let me pick images,

00:51:26   just get the one from the clipboard.

00:51:27   - Very sweet.

00:51:28   - There's another mode that is just

00:51:30   immediately frame the latest screenshot I took.

00:51:35   - Yes.

00:51:35   There's another mode where you can pass a number and say, frame the most recent seven

00:51:43   screenshots I took. I figured out the system to basically pass an instruction to Apple

00:51:52   Frames and it will skip the image picking process and it'll just do its thing for you

00:51:59   based on the command that you sent.

00:52:01   I have a request, a feature request.

00:52:05   to be able to have a bunch of, maybe it does this,

00:52:08   I don't know, to be able to say like,

00:52:10   take these three and put them in frames

00:52:14   and put them in one, say, horizontal image.

00:52:17   - That's already the case.

00:52:18   - It could do that already?

00:52:19   Cool, I'm gonna redo a screenshot that I need.

00:52:21   Thank you.

00:52:22   - Yeah, so if you pick three iPhone screenshots.

00:52:25   - It would give you all in one image?

00:52:27   - Yeah, only one.

00:52:29   - I never tried that.

00:52:29   I just never thought that it could do it.

00:52:31   I never tried.

00:52:32   - Yeah, yeah, it does that.

00:52:33   - Thank you. - It does that.

00:52:34   What some people have been asking is, "Can you properly align screenshots from different

00:52:44   devices?"

00:52:46   And unfortunately, there's nothing I can do there.

00:52:49   So if you try, for example, right now, you combine...

00:52:52   So let's say you pick an Apple Watch screenshot and an iPhone screenshot.

00:52:56   Apple Frames will frame them, and it will combine them in a single image.

00:53:01   But ideally, you want the Apple Watch to be aligned with the bottom edge of the iPhone,

00:53:10   right?

00:53:11   If you were to put together like a nice image for your website, you would want to have the

00:53:17   Apple Watch aligned with the bottom edge of the phone.

00:53:20   Right now it doesn't.

00:53:21   Apple Frames doesn't do that.

00:53:23   It just puts the Apple Watch at the very top and the iPhone next to it.

00:53:31   And that's because Apple Frames at the moment doesn't have any idea of proportions between

00:53:36   different devices, which is something that I've been thinking about how to solve.

00:53:43   Is there any way for me to add logic in the image compositing process to say, "I understand

00:53:52   that you're trying to frame an iPhone and an Apple Watch, let me make sure that when

00:53:59   they end up together, they have the correct proportions and alignment, but I haven't figured

00:54:05   that out yet. Otherwise, like right now, for example, you end up with the absurd scenario

00:54:11   in which if you frame an iPhone and an iPad, like the iPhone is taller than the iPad, right?

00:54:18   that kind of stuff. You're not going to notice this if you just frame screenshots from the

00:54:25   same device, but the moment you mix and match, the composited image looks weird. And that's

00:54:31   always been the case, but that's because I still need to figure out that logic. And hopefully

00:54:37   that will happen at some point. But yeah, 3.1 should be coming out soon with more legacy

00:54:43   devices and this new macro system for running Apple Frames in a bunch of different ways.

00:54:51   And I'm excited about that, but otherwise, you know, people are really into this shortcut

00:54:55   and I'm happy to continue working this. You know, it's been, what, three, four years at

00:55:01   this point and it's always fun.

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00:56:36   Relay FM. I feel like we've got to talk about Twitter. The news changes. The news

00:56:44   has changed multiple times since we started the document. In fact the stuff

00:56:47   in the show notes is now completely wrong. So I propose we talk sort of more

00:56:53   about how we feel more than like the news. I think it's really hard to keep

00:56:57   that up to date as quickly as things are moving. Obviously it's been a

00:57:04   drama-filled week and a half since Elon Musk took over Twitter, laid off almost

00:57:11   half the staff last week, which is just a wave of a bunch of layoffs happening in

00:57:15   tech. I saw today that Meta let go 11,000 people, roughly 13% of their

00:57:21   workforce, so a lot of layoffs in the tech sector right now. That's obviously

00:57:25   really hard and frustrating to watch because a bunch of those people did

00:57:28   great work for a long time and they're just let go overnight. But Twitter is

00:57:34   undergoing a lot of changes, right? It is now a privately held company by Elon

00:57:40   Musk and his holdings company. A lot of debt is associated with that. It was a

00:57:45   44 billion dollar deal and he has to pay that back. The interest alone is

00:57:50   substantial and Twitter was not making money if Elon's word is to be believed

00:57:56   something like four million dollars a day in losses when he took over and it's

00:58:02   important to remember I think that Twitter is not a big platform it is big

00:58:09   if you're in the tech world or if you're in professional athletics or if you're

00:58:14   in like news and politics but the couple hundred million active users it has

00:58:19   is a drop in the bucket compared to meta which is like 10 times the size and so

00:58:25   while I think we often talk about Twitter in terms of equal footing with

00:58:30   Facebook and Instagram and other social platforms it's really not very big it's

00:58:35   extremely influential for its size I mean turn on any newscasts in America

00:58:40   and some something that someone said on Twitter will be in that newscast because

00:58:44   again like news, sports, tech, these are some areas that really revolve around

00:58:48   Twitter, but out in the broader world the user base is much smaller than some of

00:58:53   the other things, and so it means that the people I think, I think on the whole

00:59:00   people on Twitter care more about Twitter than people on Facebook care

00:59:04   about Facebook, as like on the company level, which makes all of this much more

00:59:08   exciting. Like there's so much talk on Twitter, especially at the moment, but it

00:59:13   kind of has always been just about Twitter, like just in general, it's not

00:59:17   really a thing that I see as prevalent on other social media networks. It just feels

00:59:24   like people on Twitter like Twitter in general. I don't really know what to... I wanted to

00:59:34   talk about this today. I was the one who asked the two of you, "Can we talk about it?"

00:59:40   You drug us into this a little bit. We're just fine.

00:59:43   And I don't really know where to go with it as such, right?

00:59:47   I think that, you know, this is obviously very complicated and Elon is a very problematic

00:59:54   individual and is bringing a lot of that energy just to Twitter in general now.

01:00:00   I am on the side of the idea that Twitter should be a private company.

01:00:04   I actually think that that is better for Twitter right now, but I think it very much remains

01:00:11   to be seen if the guy that owns it is the right person to own it. I think so far the

01:00:18   answer feels pretty much no, right? That like it is absolute chaos it feels like at the

01:00:25   moment. Right so like as we're recording today they, like because there's been this whole

01:00:30   thing about like people paying for verification right it's part of Twitter Blue and then they

01:00:34   were like well we're also going to put in this system where very notable individuals

01:00:40   will get a secondary tag which is added to their account. So like whether they pay or

01:00:45   not it will be noted like government officials or whatever. And then this came into effect

01:00:52   today where a bunch of people got official added to their Twitter account which was a

01:00:58   grey word official with like a grey outline of a verification. But it was also added to

01:01:04   like a bunch of celebrities, tons of YouTubers got it and then within hours it was taken

01:01:10   away again and then re-clarified that it's only going to be given to companies.

01:01:15   And it's just absolute chaos. It feels like no one is making definitive decisions and

01:01:24   things are leaving Twitter before anyone seems to have fully agreed on them. Because just

01:01:29   a couple of weeks ago these absolutely wild app release notes came out talking about fighting

01:01:37   in the bots and power to the people, like in the App Store release notes, which I read

01:01:42   on platform and were written directly by Jason Calacanis and I was like, "Oh, okay then.

01:01:47   I understand."

01:01:49   And so they kind of, they just like, that came out, but like Twitter Blue is not even

01:01:54   ready for this stuff.

01:01:57   It feels like, it feels like they're a startup again, but like they shouldn't be, like it

01:02:03   It shouldn't feel like this, it shouldn't have this kind of energy to it because it

01:02:07   is this established thing.

01:02:10   Really the reason I wanted to talk about this is like, this is all preamble to just, I just

01:02:15   want to know how the two of you feel about being on Twitter right now.

01:02:20   Like how it makes you feel, what you would, or if you would consider something else instead.

01:02:27   That's kind of what I wanted to talk about.

01:02:29   I love Twitter, I've always loved Twitter.

01:02:32   I owe a lot of the things I know and the people I know to Twitter.

01:02:37   I think it, I always, I've always felt like Twitter was the social network made for me

01:02:43   and people like me.

01:02:46   And I've always felt like it was the social network that best represented my interests,

01:02:53   the way I like to communicate publicly.

01:02:56   It's the place where I can find interesting things, funny things, engage with listeners,

01:03:01   readers in a way that Facebook doesn't let me do that, YouTube doesn't let me do that,

01:03:06   Instagram doesn't let me do that, and Twitter is perfect for me. But right now I feel like,

01:03:17   I feel sad and worried and at times just in awe of the sheer stupidity of many decisions

01:03:33   that are being taken right now.

01:03:36   Amongst all of them, the worst one is this idea of giving verification to everybody without

01:03:50   verifying their identity, but just by letting them pay for it.

01:03:57   And I'm not saying that because I'm one of those people saying, "No, no, I'm verified.

01:04:03   should be exclusive for an exclusive club. It's not about that. It's about the signal

01:04:12   that you're sending and about the, you know, verification was important because you could

01:04:20   verify the identity of an individual and say, yes, this person is who they claim to be.

01:04:27   But right now, and I'm going to get political and I'm sorry, but I think I, to understand

01:04:33   And the consequences of this, I think it's helpful to speak in practical terms with practical

01:04:40   examples.

01:04:41   Mark Gorman, we all know Mark, just posted a tweet showing how there is no moderation

01:04:47   when it comes to "verifying" people now if they just sign up for Twitter Blue, which

01:04:54   launched again as we were recording the show at $8 a month.

01:04:58   Oh, they did it again.

01:04:59   They've done it, they've launched it again.

01:05:01   Congratulations everyone.

01:05:03   It's now live.

01:05:04   By the end of this episode,

01:05:05   they probably will pull it, I would expect.

01:05:07   It's now live again.

01:05:08   It launched a few minutes ago.

01:05:10   And like I was saying,

01:05:13   nobody is verifying anyone anymore, right?

01:05:17   It's just that you pay, you get a blue check mark.

01:05:19   And so right now, according to this tweet by Mark Gurman,

01:05:24   user called minefuhrer is verified on Twitter.

01:05:31   Awesome.

01:05:32   Mindfuhrer with a blue checkmark next to it.

01:05:35   This is not like theoretical.

01:05:37   This is like a real user right now.

01:05:42   You can go in and open their profile.

01:05:45   So you know, someone who pretends to be Hitler or is named after Hitler can be verified on

01:05:53   Twitter right now by just paying $8 a month.

01:05:58   And we knew this was going to happen, right? Because they, Musk said, uh, power to the

01:06:02   people, uh, give us $8 and you can be verified, but it's not about being verified. Is it?

01:06:10   It's just about paying $8. You're just paying a subscription. So the reason I'm concerned

01:06:16   is that you're getting all the benefits of verification by just signing up for a subscription.

01:06:23   And I gotta ask, why?

01:06:27   It's so stupid.

01:06:28   The company itself has realized, "Oh, well, but what are we gonna do for the organizations

01:06:35   and the celebrities that we want to make sure are verified, are who they claim to be?

01:06:41   Well, I guess we're gonna need another checkmark."

01:06:44   So in a span of a week, you went back to the original problem, and you realized that the

01:06:53   solution to that problem was what you thought was the problem in the first place.

01:06:58   Good job.

01:06:59   You just invented another checkmark.

01:07:02   But right now, in the meantime, user mine_fuhrer can sign up for Twitter Blue, get a blue checkmark,

01:07:08   and what are the benefits called again?

01:07:11   they have a new splash screen saying "Rocket" to the top of your replies and search results.

01:07:17   Well they're just gonna wait. This is the other thing. It's basically turning Twitter

01:07:23   into pay for play. That you now have to give money, or have to be in a case where you can

01:07:31   give money to be able to see, for your tweets to be seen. Because they're making, if you

01:07:39   subscribed to twitter blue or you are verified or whatever there's always been a verified tab

01:07:43   but it was the third tab so you had all activity mentions and verified and so you could go to

01:07:50   verified and see what other verified people were saying to you they're now making verified it seems

01:07:54   like the first tab so most people will just see notifications from verified users if they are

01:08:01   verified if you want to have this like paid system of doing all this stuff like i suppose do it but

01:08:08   but why make it part of the verified system,

01:08:12   which is like, I had to submit my identification

01:08:16   to be verified.

01:08:17   Like I was, I don't remember, it was a long time ago,

01:08:21   and I had to send Twitter a scan of my passport

01:08:24   to prove who I was,

01:08:25   and I had to answer a bunch of questions, right?

01:08:27   This is what you had to do.

01:08:29   And that should be what this is.

01:08:31   And if you can't do that anymore,

01:08:34   get rid of it for everyone, right?

01:08:36   Whatever.

01:08:37   Like if you're saying someone is verified,

01:08:41   it means you have verified them.

01:08:43   And like they're saying, oh, a credit card would do it.

01:08:46   I'm pretty sure that person's name is not mine, Fuhrer.

01:08:48   Right?

01:08:49   Like I feel pretty confident

01:08:52   that that's probably not their legal name.

01:08:54   If it is like, I guess fine, I suppose, like egg on my face,

01:08:59   but I'm assuming it probably isn't.

01:09:01   And so there isn't verification.

01:09:04   The verification is like, you have a credit card, right?

01:09:07   But it doesn't say anything, right?

01:09:10   And I just, it's just all just like this,

01:09:14   this is like a perfect example of like,

01:09:17   I just have like much more increased anxiety

01:09:22   on Twitter at the moment than I have,

01:09:24   which is already pretty high when I'm there, to be honest,

01:09:27   but I'm addicted, right?

01:09:29   Like this is the issue.

01:09:30   And I saw someone, I think it was,

01:09:33   Oh, I've got to find this tweet because it was, this actually is like a good bordering

01:09:38   between the two things that I'm feeling right now.

01:09:42   I think it was from Chris Sacker.

01:09:45   Jason sent it to me.

01:09:46   I'm just going through Slack to find this now.

01:09:50   It was super good of like explaining the situation.

01:09:52   Yeah, it was Chris Sacker.

01:09:54   To those questioning if I'm going to Mastodon, that's like asking if I'm going to quit a

01:09:59   a pack of day camels habit to start rolling my own clothes cigarettes like

01:10:04   the rest of you. I just need to stop smoking. It's like that like encapsulates

01:10:09   both things of like I go to Twitter and I'm going there more right now than I

01:10:13   have done in a while because I'm addicted to it and I also just can't

01:10:16   help but not see what's happening, but if I decide to quit like I'm done like

01:10:23   I'm not going to go spin up a mastodon server like this is if I leave, which I

01:10:28   I think my timeline of if, like it's an if timeline,

01:10:33   but like my if timeline of will I stop using Twitter

01:10:36   is speeding up now, like an accelerating rate,

01:10:39   I feel like.

01:10:40   Like if I'm ever going to quit,

01:10:42   I think that that time is coming faster

01:10:44   than it would have without Elon in charge.

01:10:47   Because it's just, it's so,

01:10:50   it just feels so bad right now.

01:10:52   And everyone is just even more mad than they were before.

01:10:55   And it's like a new mad about Twitter,

01:10:57   which is on top of all of the other mad,

01:10:59   which is already on Twitter all the time, right?

01:11:01   People just being mad about things.

01:11:03   I just, I don't enjoy being there right now.

01:11:06   It feels like chaos, but not good chaos.

01:11:09   Yeah, if I'm gonna leave,

01:11:11   I'm, it's just like I'm done with it.

01:11:14   So I wonder what you two think about that.

01:11:16   - I think my is when, not if.

01:11:19   I have over the last year or so,

01:11:22   just been much more aware of my usage of it.

01:11:25   and like you feel pretty addicted to it, to be honest.

01:11:29   And for me, it's about the direction of the platform

01:11:34   just as much as about like what I want personally for me.

01:11:37   Right, and I think overall,

01:11:41   there's not a scenario that I can imagine

01:11:43   where it ends well for Twitter.

01:11:45   It either slowly becomes less relevant

01:11:49   and just hangs on forever,

01:11:51   like Flickr or Tumblr or one of those other services

01:11:53   that we all used to use all the time

01:11:55   now we don't even think about it anymore. Or it sinks into some sort of like 4chan

01:12:00   level of hell that without moderation and without a lot of people who make the

01:12:08   community what it is now. One of the best things about Twitter, at least in the

01:12:12   Apple community and the technology community, is that I can see and talk to

01:12:19   a lot of people who have a lot of different thoughts and feelings and

01:12:23   points of view on things. And that's fantastic. And our little corner of it

01:12:28   feels pretty good most of the time. But at the same time,

01:12:33   it feels like the shadows are creeping in around the edges already.

01:12:38   And, you know, I don't remember who said this.

01:12:42   It was on a podcast I listened to,

01:12:43   it may have been someone who really it may not have been, but, um,

01:12:45   the genius, one of the geniuses of Twitter, oh, it was on, um, offline,

01:12:51   which is a Pod Save America podcast.

01:12:53   Jon Favreau had Neil Patel on this weekend's episode.

01:12:56   And I think it was on that show they were talking about,

01:13:00   kind of the brilliance of Twitter

01:13:02   is that you just type into a box

01:13:05   and like everyone's thoughts and feelings

01:13:08   are kind of on the same level, right?

01:13:10   It's different from YouTube where if you're shooting a video

01:13:14   on like your iPhone 4S versus MKBHD shooting in like 8K,

01:13:18   like there's real quality differences.

01:13:20   So Twitter in a way is like the great equalizer

01:13:23   in terms of social media platforms.

01:13:25   - Yes.

01:13:26   - But for all the good that brings,

01:13:29   and it brings a lot of good,

01:13:30   like I do not want to undersell like the good,

01:13:34   and frankly, the good that Twitter's done,

01:13:36   frankly, what the three of us have benefited from Twitter,

01:13:39   because all three of us have benefited from it,

01:13:44   professionally and personally, hugely.

01:13:47   That's all fantastic, but I'm not willing to stick around

01:13:52   and watch it burn if it crosses some sort of threshold

01:13:56   I'm unwilling to cross.

01:13:58   And I don't know what that is.

01:14:00   I've taken a big step back, but it is so complicated.

01:14:05   I mean, even in talking about it now,

01:14:07   I feel like I'm talking in circles

01:14:08   because I don't really know what I feel about it.

01:14:10   I don't know what I think about it other than it hurts.

01:14:14   and it hurts to see a place that on its best days

01:14:19   promised equal footing for all voices.

01:14:23   And Twitter wasn't perfect at that right there.

01:14:25   I mean, under previous administrations of Twitter,

01:14:27   like abuse and harassment

01:14:30   and people chased off the platform,

01:14:31   like it's been a bad place for a long time,

01:14:36   but on its best days, you could see what it could be.

01:14:39   And Elon and all the people he's brought in

01:14:44   do not care about that, right?

01:14:46   They have a big problem on their hands at the financials.

01:14:50   They saw the blue check mark as something people wanted.

01:14:53   And I think Musk hates the press.

01:14:57   If you look at the way he operates his other country,

01:14:59   other companies, he doesn't like the press.

01:15:01   Tesla famously doesn't have a PR department.

01:15:04   SpaceX doesn't really either,

01:15:06   although it's a little bit different.

01:15:07   They're not really a consumer company.

01:15:09   It fits in with, okay, we need money.

01:15:12   People want to like take down the liberal blue check people

01:15:17   and it fits in with his sort of view of the world.

01:15:21   And I was talking to Casey about this.

01:15:23   I hope he doesn't mind.

01:15:24   It's something I said in our conversations.

01:15:26   I feel like I can share it.

01:15:27   This is fundamentally different

01:15:29   than Elon Musk's other companies, right?

01:15:32   Like Tesla and SpaceX and the Boring Company

01:15:34   and everything else.

01:15:35   Like they've all done, well, not the Boring Company.

01:15:37   SpaceX and Tesla have both done amazing things.

01:15:39   They're amazing people who work there.

01:15:40   I know people at both companies

01:15:43   who are doing their best work of their lives

01:15:45   in that structure.

01:15:47   Those companies don't affect tens of millions of people

01:15:51   based on what Elon Musk thinks about the world, right?

01:15:55   Elon's like libertarian stance on things,

01:15:58   which is like, it's what he believes, right?

01:16:00   I disagree with it, that's fine.

01:16:02   But it doesn't really affect how the Model S turns out.

01:16:06   It doesn't really affect SpaceX's ability

01:16:09   to do amazing things with their rockets.

01:16:12   But with Twitter, like you, I mean,

01:16:15   in Eli's "Welcome to Hell" Elon piece,

01:16:17   which we'll link in the show notes,

01:16:19   he was like, you know,

01:16:20   the thing that these companies make is content moderation.

01:16:23   That's their product.

01:16:24   Musk has no experience in that.

01:16:26   And it seems like he's allergic to it in a lot of ways.

01:16:29   And that's at odds with what he says

01:16:31   he's gonna do for advertisers.

01:16:33   And so I think it's confused as we feel about it

01:16:36   and as conflicted as we feel about it,

01:16:37   that reflects what's happening with Twitter itself,

01:16:40   where it seems like a company that's in complete disarray

01:16:43   and no one knows really what's happening.

01:16:45   And like, I mean, Esther, I forget her last name,

01:16:49   but she's the one who's been tweeting a lot

01:16:50   about like the new verification system.

01:16:52   She works for Twitter still.

01:16:53   And like, Elon's just going around

01:16:55   basically undoing everything she's doing in public.

01:16:57   Like that has to feel terrible.

01:16:59   - Esther Crawford.

01:17:01   - Yes, thank you.

01:17:02   It just, it's a mess.

01:17:03   And what I fear is like the, you know,

01:17:07   the idea of like Twitter being a city on a hill,

01:17:09   like everyone's voice can be heard

01:17:11   and you can learn from people with different points of view

01:17:13   and different backgrounds.

01:17:14   Like as hard as that was to see in the past,

01:17:17   and I did think we had glimpses of it on the old Twitter,

01:17:20   I'm afraid that that is gone.

01:17:23   That the people who I need to listen to more in my life

01:17:28   because they have points of view that are different for me

01:17:30   and I can grow as a person being exposed to them,

01:17:35   a lot of those folks aren't gonna stick around

01:17:37   because Twitter's not a safe place for them anymore.

01:17:40   And that, at the end of the day,

01:17:42   I think is what bums me out the most.

01:17:45   Like, I'll just say it,

01:17:46   as like a verified white dude on Twitter,

01:17:48   like, I'm probably not gonna feel

01:17:50   a lot of like personal pain on Twitter

01:17:52   beyond what I put myself through.

01:17:54   But there are so many people on Twitter

01:17:56   whose voices other people think shouldn't be there,

01:18:00   and they're gonna be run off,

01:18:02   and that makes the platform worse,

01:18:03   and that means it's a place I don't wanna be.

01:18:05   - Like everything that you said, Stephen,

01:18:07   like 100%, I agree with that.

01:18:09   And I would add that for me,

01:18:13   it's also a matter of kind of company are you supporting

01:18:18   by participating in it,

01:18:20   and by effectively giving your free content.

01:18:24   - Or paying for it, not right.

01:18:25   Or paying for it. Like, I can tell you right now, I am not going to pay $8 to stay verified.

01:18:33   In good conscience, right now, as it stands, I'm not going to shout out $8 to the guy who

01:18:43   posts a meme with a Nazi soldier. I am not going to, you know, give my $8 to the company

01:18:53   that allows user mindfuhrer to verify. I'm sorry, but that's a pretty hard and clear

01:19:02   line for me. Being okay with posting Nazi symbols and imagery or having usernames, that's

01:19:16   a big nope from me. And I'm sure that, you know, fellow Italians and Germans, I'm sure

01:19:23   that, you know, this is a topic that is especially close to our countries for obvious historical

01:19:31   reasons. I mean, we literally have laws both in Italy and in Germany to ban imagery and

01:19:39   symbols and that type of stuff, which, and seeing that on Twitter with the blue check

01:19:46   mark next to it, you know, it, it hurts and it sucks. And I don't want to participate

01:19:52   in that.

01:19:53   And if it hurts you think about how much it hurts somebody who, who has a more personal

01:20:00   connection to those historic events. Right.

01:20:02   Exactly. Like nothing happened to me because of those historical events. Imagine people

01:20:10   and communities and, and you know, folks who are and continue to be still affected by that

01:20:16   line of political thinking. And that's the thing for me. Ultimately, that's the thing

01:20:20   for me. The idea that we should welcome all opinions under this Utopian banner of free

01:20:30   speech. That's where I draw the line, because for me, there are some things that are not

01:20:38   free speech, they are violence. And I cannot, as a person, justify things and opinions and

01:20:48   ideas and symbols and whatever, like, that are wrong, as "No, it's just someone else's

01:20:56   No, it's wrong and illegal, I would say, in some countries.

01:21:01   So that's where I draw the line.

01:21:03   If this continues, well, obviously, I'm not going to...

01:21:06   And it's not so quite...

01:21:08   I don't want to just, you know, I don't want to pay $8 to the richest white man in the

01:21:12   world to be, "Hey, I'm cool too."

01:21:14   You know, like, no, no.

01:21:17   And if this company allows for this kind of users and symbols and photos to continue spreading,

01:21:24   I don't want to participate in that.

01:21:26   Yeah, absolutely. And I do think we're going to get to a point where that very thing becomes

01:21:32   a litmus test, at least in our community. And I mean, it's something that I thought of when you

01:21:39   were talking like these images and symbols of hatred that our society can't seem to

01:21:46   scrub itself of. Like that's as bad as that is, it's just one category and one example.

01:21:52   Exactly. Just one of them.

01:21:54   If you have a verified account or an account that Elon or one of his boys retweets that is against people of color or against trans people,

01:22:06   those folks should be safe on a platform like Twitter.

01:22:11   And again, Twitter before this was not perfect or even good at this, right?

01:22:16   Like, don't hear what I'm not saying.

01:22:17   But it is even worse when the guy who wholly owns the company is proliferating it, right?

01:22:24   So you can say you have a moderation issue, right?

01:22:27   'Cause like moderation at this scale

01:22:29   is a very complicated thing,

01:22:31   which takes huge person power to make work.

01:22:35   - And no system is perfect, right?

01:22:37   - Yes.

01:22:38   - But when the dude who bought it,

01:22:40   swims in those waters, it sets the tone.

01:22:44   - Yep.

01:22:45   - And when you look at a company that just went under,

01:22:47   again, massive layoffs,

01:22:49   and the teams that were gutted were things like

01:22:52   ethical AI research and the safety team

01:22:56   and like a bunch of teams that are really vital

01:22:59   to this service remaining safe for people to be on,

01:23:03   you gotta wonder what the future holds.

01:23:05   And I don't see any sign that this new leadership

01:23:10   gives a crap about these serious moderation issues, right?

01:23:14   He says it's gonna be a free speech haven

01:23:16   while also saying it's gonna be good for advertisers.

01:23:18   Advertisers don't wanna be associated

01:23:19   with any of this either, right?

01:23:22   It's, I mean, YouTube has struggled with this, right?

01:23:25   YouTube has struggled on and off the year,

01:23:27   over the years with having advertising paired

01:23:31   with extreme content or radicalized content.

01:23:34   And then a bunch of advertisers freak out

01:23:35   and they have to rework their algorithms and their rules.

01:23:37   And like, I think someone, I think, again,

01:23:40   someone else said this, I've consumed way too much media

01:23:43   over the last week about this,

01:23:44   but it's like Elon and team are speed running,

01:23:49   running a network, right?

01:23:50   Like you saw YouTube and even Tumblr, Tumblr went through this.

01:23:54   Flickr went through this.

01:23:55   Like figuring out what's okay and not okay on your platform.

01:23:59   He's doing it in public.

01:24:01   He's doing it at a breathtaking speed.

01:24:04   And he's doing it with something that was already up and running.

01:24:07   I mean, Myke, you mentioned at the top of this that it feels like they're a startup

01:24:10   again.

01:24:11   They are too big and too influential for that to be the case for very long.

01:24:16   I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on some things for a little while

01:24:21   as they get their feet under them, but it's become increasingly clear to me that I don't

01:24:26   think it's going to get to a place where I'm comfortable staying.

01:24:29   And like, that sucks.

01:24:33   Like there are so many people that I know, including the two of you, that some of our

01:24:38   first interactions were on Twitter.

01:24:41   And I like that serendipity, that ability to meet somebody and talk to somebody like

01:24:50   a lot of that's been gone from Twitter for a while now.

01:24:53   At least for us, our lives changed.

01:24:55   Yeah.

01:24:56   Like I expect that there are a lot of people that still do have that exact same thing that

01:25:01   we all had 15 years ago, but like our just lives changed over that time period.

01:25:08   But that's going to disappear, right?

01:25:11   Because the the conversation, the question you started asking us like two hours ago,

01:25:15   Myke was like, what do we go from here?

01:25:17   I'm with you.

01:25:18   Like I have a Mastodon account.

01:25:19   I'm not interested in using it.

01:25:21   I did it to hold my name.

01:25:23   And I mean, I think I set one up like, yeah, when it started, I haven't bothered to look.

01:25:28   I looked at mine the other day.

01:25:29   I started in like 2018 and it has one post on it.

01:25:33   And that's all it'll be.

01:25:35   Um, I could see myself in the not too distant future not being on social media at all, which

01:25:40   which is really weird to think about

01:25:42   because on the professional,

01:25:44   so like on the personal level, I'm already there, right?

01:25:46   Like I don't post like on Instagram,

01:25:49   anything about my family.

01:25:51   I actually went through my history

01:25:52   and like took down pictures of my kids

01:25:54   and that sort of thing.

01:25:55   Like I turned Instagram into a professional thing

01:25:57   and then I took it off my phone.

01:25:58   I haven't looked at it in a while.

01:26:00   I've done the same thing on Twitter

01:26:02   where I'm basically just using it in a professional context.

01:26:06   And I know you and Jason spoke about this on Upgrade Plus

01:26:08   about how he still really values that as a professional.

01:26:12   And I do too, because that's where our audience is.

01:26:15   Like most of the stuff in feedback or follow-up

01:26:17   on this very podcast you're listening to comes from Twitter.

01:26:21   It doesn't come from the email address.

01:26:22   I wish it would, but it comes from Twitter.

01:26:24   And so there is part of this that part of the conflict is,

01:26:28   well, I'm in, I like it personally,

01:26:30   but that's where the audience is.

01:26:31   And I need to be able to interact

01:26:35   and like see what people think about the shows

01:26:37   and like, you know, answer questions

01:26:39   and like be available to people.

01:26:40   And I wanna continue to do that, right?

01:26:42   It's one reason I love our Discord so much.

01:26:44   But having said that,

01:26:48   like at some point the balance is gonna shift

01:26:50   and that's not gonna be enough.

01:26:52   It may hurt me professionally.

01:26:54   It may make people think of my projects less often, right?

01:26:57   It may mean that I don't sell as many calendars next year

01:26:59   or whatever, but I have to be okay with that

01:27:02   if I feel like this is not a thing

01:27:04   I wanna be a part of anymore.

01:27:05   And that's tough. It's hard to know.

01:27:07   I don't think that it's a concern for us anymore.

01:27:11   Like more people pay attention to the three of us

01:27:16   via our non-social media things.

01:27:18   Yeah.

01:27:19   Right. And I would say maybe it's a little more complicated for the two of you,

01:27:22   because I know that like writing, you know,

01:27:25   like I know Twitter drives a lot of traffic,

01:27:27   but so for our podcasts though, right?

01:27:30   Like our audiences are audiences. I don't think Twitter grows that audience for us.

01:27:35   I don't think we see significant amounts of new traffic

01:27:40   because we post our episodes, you know?

01:27:43   I mean, and I know this to be the case

01:27:45   'cause I can see that our audience numbers

01:27:47   stay mostly the same.

01:27:49   And maybe it means we're never gonna get those

01:27:51   like bubbling up moments, right?

01:27:54   But I don't know really one, how much they happen

01:27:58   and two, how important they are.

01:28:00   I think this is a very different thing for me

01:28:02   than for you two for that reason of like,

01:28:05   what do we publish, right?

01:28:08   And everything that I make is audio

01:28:13   or is a physical product,

01:28:15   which I'll talk about on one of my audioship.

01:28:17   Like social media is really bad

01:28:21   for promoting podcasts in general.

01:28:23   And so like from a professional perspective,

01:28:27   it isn't as important for me anymore

01:28:30   for like getting out to my audience of people.

01:28:35   And I mean, one of the reasons I know this is like, I barely tweet anymore.

01:28:40   This has been me for a long time.

01:28:41   It wasn't a conscious decision.

01:28:42   I just kind of stopped tweeting.

01:28:44   And really now all I ever tend to do is share things that I'm working on.

01:28:49   But I don't think it really drives much of anything for me now.

01:28:55   And like, really the majority of my tweets, they're just replies to people that are asking

01:29:00   me things.

01:29:01   I would miss that.

01:29:02   When you said that, Stephen, I hadn't realized that, yes, the majority of the feedback and

01:29:06   follow up that I get from listeners comes from Twitter and I don't want more email.

01:29:14   So like that would start to be a thing that would become difficult for me.

01:29:17   Like I think I would maybe set up like a form or something, right?

01:29:22   Like go fill out a Google form if you've got some follow up, like if I was to leave, right?

01:29:27   or like questions follow up that kind of stuff because I'd

01:29:31   That would be the main thing that I would miss. Yeah, it's it's tough right and it's tough because it has become

01:29:39   the personal and professional

01:29:41   While you were talking I was I was sitting thinking about

01:29:44   The fact I left Facebook

01:29:47   2014 or 15 it's a long time ago and I was conflicted about that because it's like well

01:29:54   I got a bunch of friends on here,

01:29:56   and this is how I keep up with like,

01:29:57   what's going on in their lives, right?

01:29:58   Like, oh, we're having a baby, or we're moving, or whatever.

01:30:01   And what I've learned in the years since then

01:30:04   is that I still keep up with people

01:30:05   I wanna keep up with, right?

01:30:07   It's the core group of people that I really care about.

01:30:10   What I've realized is that it has solidified

01:30:13   the relationships I wanna keep up with.

01:30:15   And I think the same would be true for Twitter.

01:30:17   Like, I could still read who I wanna read,

01:30:19   I still listen to who I wanna listen to.

01:30:21   It's not like a bunch of people

01:30:22   are gonna be Thanos out of my life

01:30:25   because I quit looking at Twitter.

01:30:27   Just gotta find different ways

01:30:28   to keep up with who I really want to.

01:30:30   I think that's why so many people

01:30:32   are like clamoring for what is next.

01:30:34   Like, oh, let's go, I'll go over here.

01:30:36   I don't think any system,

01:30:37   any social media platform is perfect.

01:30:40   And I don't think Mastodon really solves

01:30:42   many of the problems that Twitter has.

01:30:43   Like I know it's federated or like whatever,

01:30:45   and that's cool technically,

01:30:46   but at the end of the day,

01:30:47   if you put a bunch of human beings in a service,

01:30:49   you have to have moderation

01:30:50   because people do and say bad things.

01:30:53   And so I just don't know if anything can replace it.

01:30:58   And I'm becoming more and more comfortable

01:31:00   with thinking that that's actually okay,

01:31:03   that we don't actually need something to replace it.

01:31:07   Yes, it's sad.

01:31:08   Yes, it is frustrating.

01:31:11   But at the same time,

01:31:13   the world isn't gonna stop spinning

01:31:15   because a social network like Twitter goes away.

01:31:18   And listen, you might, right?

01:31:21   You might need something.

01:31:23   And that's perfectly okay, right?

01:31:26   I just want to say, you know, like,

01:31:28   we just have for us, I think we can live without it.

01:31:32   I mean, Federico, I don't know if you've mentioned,

01:31:34   but like, you know, if you out there feel like

01:31:37   you need Mastodon, like, please go ahead.

01:31:40   Like, I encourage you.

01:31:42   - Right, or micro.blog or like this,

01:31:45   I mean, there's other things, right?

01:31:46   I think what we're running what we're gonna be in is like everyone is on a handful of slacks and discords

01:31:52   And you have like weird overlapping social circles

01:31:54   You know I think we should always go back to blogging like Federica, and I talked about last week, but it's um

01:31:59   Yeah, I think for me at the end of the day like I will be sad, but fine leaving it behind

01:32:06   Yeah, if that happens you know

01:32:11   We'll just, we'll leave the trolls and all those people on Twitter and

01:32:16   maybe it's gonna be weird for a while as

01:32:20   we split up. Maybe, you know, some of us are gonna say I'm not gonna be on social media at all.

01:32:25   Some of us are gonna be split into like these private communities like slacks and discords, for example.

01:32:31   I think at some point if

01:32:34   Twitter goes

01:32:37   badly as it seems to be going as of right now,

01:32:41   now. I think at some point there will be a new thing that is not Mastodon. And I

01:32:48   mean, I love open source projects, I tweeted about my Mastodon username just

01:32:55   as a backup. I'm not using it. I never posted "created an account in 2018" and I

01:33:02   still don't understand it. And that's the main problem with it. And yes, you

01:33:07   can you know you're gonna send me a video about what Federation means what

01:33:11   the Fediverse is if you are under the illusion that my mom is gonna sign up

01:33:20   for a Mastodon instance hmm I mean come on seriously like this is a like the the

01:33:30   it really feels like the Linux version of social media for people like us and

01:33:36   And even people like us, like I struggle to understand it.

01:33:40   So this is not gonna be it.

01:33:43   Must I believe, I fundamentally believe

01:33:46   that something like Twitter needs to exist

01:33:50   and will exist again,

01:33:52   but it's gonna be strange for a while

01:33:55   because these things, you know, unless you wanna,

01:33:58   you know, you said if watching Elon

01:34:00   and his sycophants around Twitter

01:34:03   feels like watching a speed running a social network.

01:34:07   To me, it feels more than speed running.

01:34:09   At the moment, it feels like improv.

01:34:11   - Oh, yeah.

01:34:13   - They are improvising.

01:34:14   Everything feels improvised.

01:34:16   Like, "Ooh, I don't know, blue check mark?

01:34:17   Yeah, go for it.

01:34:19   Like, ooh, the official one?

01:34:21   Maybe, oh, no, no, no, pull it.

01:34:24   We're gonna do it later.

01:34:25   Release notes?

01:34:26   Yeah, write them like that.

01:34:27   Ooh, but no, they are bad."

01:34:29   Like, everything feels like it's been improvised,

01:34:32   like on the spot. And it shouldn't be like that. Anyway, I think it's gonna be strange

01:34:41   for a while. Yeah, I think a bunch of people in our community—and Twitter is made of

01:34:48   all these communities, like that's why for years we've been saying things like Apple

01:34:52   Twitter or video game Twitter or, you know, Pokemon Twitter. Like, Twitter is, by and

01:34:58   large, Twitter is all of its sub-communities, and they happen organically, and they're not

01:35:06   structured, like subreddits can be structured on Reddit, where you have clear sub-communities.

01:35:13   It's more organic and chaotic, which has always been the fun aspect of Twitter, you know,

01:35:18   to dip in and out of different social spheres, I guess. Something like it needs to exist,

01:35:27   it won't for a while, because if an alternative comes out, you know, most people, thankfully,

01:35:32   most business people are not like Elon, just throwing 44 billions at something he wanted

01:35:39   to buy out of spite, I guess. Usually business people think about their investments and the

01:35:47   companies they want to run, and it takes time to strategize, to come up with a plan. So

01:35:53   If a Twitter alternative comes out, it'll be a while because it's not something you

01:35:58   can improvise. That's how I feel about it. Yeah. So I don't know where that all ends

01:36:03   or even where we ended up. I think the thing is, I think we don't know.

01:36:10   We don't. It's impossible to keep track of it. It's impossible to know, but I think we

01:36:14   all feel a certain way, and that feeling should be our North Star right now. Like, at some point,

01:36:24   you gotta ask yourself, "If this thing makes you feel bad or gross, are you sure you want to

01:36:32   continue using it?" We can't know how it's gonna go, but let's keep checking in on our feelings

01:36:39   about this and I think a decision will just happen organically. I think it'll just happen

01:36:46   naturally in our community and in other communities. If things go a certain direction, I think

01:36:52   we'll just know if and when it's time to leave.

01:36:58   If you want to find links to stuff we spoke about this week, head on over to the website

01:37:02   relay.fm/connected/423. There you can become a member of connected pro which is a longer ad-free

01:37:11   version of the show each and every week. This week Federico asked the unaskable question about MacOS

01:37:18   and said something about mail.app. So leave it at that. And he bought an application. He bought an

01:37:23   app on the app store. It was wild. He acquired an app. He acquired an app. I am working on my

01:37:30   review as we speak. Good! First item does not work as Myke and Steven told me it would.

01:37:37   On that web page there's also an email link you can send us feedback or follow up there. We love

01:37:44   to hear what you think about the show. You can find us all online. Federico is the editor-in-chief

01:37:50   of MacStories.net. Go check out Apple Frames. It's so good. I enjoyed when you do it all like the

01:37:57   Apple journalist people we know like yes finally he's updated it like so many

01:38:02   people use this it's really great and it makes everything look way more

01:38:05   professional than just having a floating screenshot in your story or in your

01:38:09   tweet or whatever yeah I'm gonna use them for my state of the app screenshots

01:38:12   that's what I wanted it for Federico so they're gonna look much nicer this time

01:38:16   so thank you it's good you can find Myke on a bunch of other shows here on relay

01:38:22   FM you just mentioned state of the apps that's a upcoming cortex episode I

01:38:26   I suppose towards the end of the year.

01:38:28   So at some point soon in the future.

01:38:30   - Recording it tomorrow.

01:38:32   - Recording it tomorrow is what I've heard.

01:38:33   - Oh nice. - Is what I've been told.

01:38:34   - Yeah, so it's gonna be pretty soon.

01:38:37   - Always know Daisy record Cortex

01:38:38   because I can't get ahold of you.

01:38:40   Like answer me five hours later.

01:38:43   - Yep.

01:38:44   - You can find me online.

01:38:45   I write at 512pixels.net

01:38:47   and I'm the co-host of Mac Power Users here on Relay FM.

01:38:50   Go check that show out.

01:38:51   A big thank you to our members

01:38:52   for their direct support of the show and the network.

01:38:55   Again, if you're not a member,

01:38:56   go check that out.

01:38:57   If you are a member, go check out the Discord.

01:39:00   It's a fantastic community of a bunch of people

01:39:02   who care about technology.

01:39:04   - It's better than Twitter.

01:39:05   - It's better than Twitter.

01:39:06   It's way better and cheaper.

01:39:08   - There are rules, they're enforced, you know?

01:39:11   - Yeah, it's great. - Imagine.

01:39:13   - It's fantastic.

01:39:14   I'd like to thank our sponsors for this episode.

01:39:16   They are Capital One and Indeed.

01:39:18   And until next time, guys, say goodbye.

01:39:20   - I'll be there with you. - Cheerio.