420: 2 Regular 2 Pro


00:00:00   [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:00:03   From Relay FM, this is "Connected," episode 420, "Blaze It."

00:00:11   Today's show is brought to you by TextExpander, CleanMyMacX,

00:00:15   and Hover.

00:00:16   It is my absolute pleasure to be joined today

00:00:19   on this very fine episode by Mr. Stephen Hackett.

00:00:23   Hey, boys.

00:00:25   What's up?

00:00:27   Oh, OK.

00:00:28   I get it.

00:00:28   Yeah.

00:00:29   Oh yeah, yeah you committed to the bit. Nicely done. Nicely done.

00:00:34   I don't know what I sound like on drugs so it's as close as I could get.

00:00:38   This is your brain on drugs. Introduce me.

00:00:41   Oh yes, I'm also joined. Look, when you do drugs you forget things. I'm also joined by Myke Hurley.

00:00:48   Hello, this won't come through I think for people but Federico's introduction actually

00:00:55   was a jump scare for me. It was so loud, like in that moment, like I think the music will probably

00:01:02   tamp it down, plus people will be expecting it because they press play, but like that was like

00:01:06   a straight up jump scare with the energy. I tried to give it energy, you know, I feel like we need

00:01:13   energy to sustain this, today's show, so. Did you say the sponsors? I did. Okay, I think I was too

00:01:23   busy being scared in that moment. Yeah you were scared and you didn't pay attention but

00:01:27   I did see it. My heart was finding its way back into my chest. Oh. Yeah. Oh that's...

00:01:31   Wow. Graphic. Let right out of there baby. Follow up! Follow up! Follow up! Follow up!

00:01:38   So last time we spoke about the Google Pixel tablet and how it's gonna be used as like

00:01:45   a... you're gonna be able to get like a little dock and turn it into a Nest home hub. This

00:01:49   This is quoting from the Verge, what this is like Mark Gurman via the Verge, I don't

00:01:53   know, you tell me how the Vires work, I'm no blogger.

00:01:56   Anyway, Apple is working on a dock for the iPad that would allow the device to function

00:02:00   as a smart display and speaker according to a report from Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.

00:02:05   The company reportedly plans on introducing the capability as soon as next year, converting

00:02:10   the iPad into an Amazon Echo Show-like device that you can set atop a counter or nightstand.

00:02:16   This is what we want, it would be awesome.

00:02:19   wouldn't it be funny if, you know, as soon as next year means it could happen in 2027.

00:02:23   Right.

00:02:24   Wouldn't it be funny if Apple beat Google, right?

00:02:28   Like that would just be funny because Google is like 2023.

00:02:30   They still haven't announced when.

00:02:32   That would be kind of hilarious.

00:02:34   That would be funny, but it's not going to happen.

00:02:36   Right.

00:02:37   It's not going to happen.

00:02:38   Yeah.

00:02:39   We know that if it's happening, Apple is going to wait until WWDC for it to, you know, for

00:02:44   this feature to show up.

00:02:46   I don't know. I don't know though. Like I think Google will probably beat them in January

00:02:53   or February or something like that. I mean, I would expect, especially now, like if this

00:02:58   information sounds like, oh geez, will you hurry up? Someone's hair got lit on fire over

00:03:04   the weekend. My big question, I guess about this, well, first of all, I love the idea.

00:03:10   I love this rumor and I really hope that Mark is correct.

00:03:14   My big question is, I would assume that when you place

00:03:18   an iPad in this rumored dock, the iPad's interface adapts

00:03:23   to it, sort of like carplay on a phone where you are

00:03:28   in a car.

00:03:29   - Yes, yeah.

00:03:30   I mean, it's gotta be this, right?

00:03:31   Otherwise, what's the point?

00:03:32   - So I hope that's the case or, or stay with me.

00:03:40   Okay. Stage manager, but for the home. Home manager. Home manager. They just break all

00:03:50   your windows in your house. You just attach it to the dock and all the glass shatters,

00:03:53   right? Because there's just no window management. Oh, God. Come on. You're not going to get

00:04:01   better than that. No, that was really good, actually. Thank you. Yeah. I would want this

00:04:06   to have some sort of UI that's like very home kit centric

00:04:10   or maybe you can like set up, okay,

00:04:13   I'm just gonna go down the rabbit hole now.

00:04:16   What if they, what would they call it?

00:04:19   Like dashboard and you could lay out

00:04:23   - Oh, here he goes.

00:04:24   - What you want on that dashboard.

00:04:26   So like for me, what I would want is I would want

00:04:29   a bunch of home kit controls.

00:04:32   I would want probably some music controls

00:04:35   and maybe the weather, like, you know, and you could,

00:04:37   if you're not in HomeKit, you could put something else in,

00:04:39   maybe you want photos or something else.

00:04:41   Like, it would be really cool for like your iPad

00:04:44   to be your iPad, then you set it down

00:04:47   and it totally changed modes.

00:04:49   I mean, Federica, there's something you've written

00:04:50   about forever, right, is the iPad, because it is modular,

00:04:55   it can become what you want it to be.

00:04:57   You can pick it up and carry it around

00:04:58   or you can use it with a keyboard.

00:04:59   This could just be another thing

00:05:01   and I would be super into it.

00:05:03   - Yeah, I agree.

00:05:05   I think it's kind of weird though that last week we were speculating about the future

00:05:09   of the iPad Pro and we were following the rumors and the rumors were saying that Apple

00:05:14   was going to add a MagSafe-like wireless magnetic charging to the back of the iPad Pro and that

00:05:21   didn't happen, as we're going to talk about later in the show.

00:05:24   Maybe that was "as soon as" this year, you know what I mean?

00:05:30   As soon as.

00:05:31   That's such a nice phrase to get out of any potential misreporting. I love it.

00:05:37   Yep.

00:05:37   It's very clever.

00:05:38   As soon as.

00:05:39   As soon as.

00:05:40   Look, I could go to the gym as soon as next week.

00:05:45   Ooh, good luck. I can't wait for you to be at the gym, because I hear it as you're going

00:05:50   to be there next week.

00:05:51   It could happen as soon as next week.

00:05:54   As soon as next week.

00:05:56   Yep.

00:05:57   Boys, the Belkin iPhone mount for continuity camera is available to buy.

00:06:01   Why is nobody talking about this?

00:06:03   Okay, that wasn't as exciting as you made it out to be.

00:06:06   Because I was going to talk about the next thing in the document

00:06:11   and realized we hadn't spoken about this.

00:06:14   And then too late, I decided to...

00:06:16   I didn't want to disrupt the flow here of the document,

00:06:19   which I'm now doing by talking about it,

00:06:21   and thought I'm just going to talk about the iPhone mount

00:06:23   because far be it from me to ruin the flow of our show document,

00:06:28   but it means that the thing that I was going to say "boys" about will be in a minute,

00:06:31   but now we're going to talk about this.

00:06:33   [laughter]

00:06:34   I'm really mad that this thing won't work with my studio display.

00:06:37   Yeah, where's the desktop version? Apple? Belkin?

00:06:41   I want one for the studio display because,

00:06:44   you know, I had a call with someone the other day,

00:06:46   "Hello out there, if you're listening to this,"

00:06:48   and I connected to the call and I said, "Sorry, my camera's messed it up,"

00:06:53   and they were like, I heard you talk about that.

00:06:54   So they listened to the show.

00:06:57   I'm still, and you had this with me the other day, Steven,

00:06:59   right, where it looked like I was falling

00:07:02   into another dimension or something

00:07:03   as the background behind me was rippling.

00:07:05   - It was very strange.

00:07:08   Here's my solution for you, Myke.

00:07:10   - Tell me.

00:07:11   - You're a smart guy.

00:07:12   - Thank you.

00:07:13   - You have proven to be a remarkably fast learner

00:07:16   when it comes to handy stuff.

00:07:18   - Yeah.

00:07:18   - You're now soldering and doing keyboards and whatnot.

00:07:20   build your own iPhone mount for your studio display.

00:07:25   - I mean, it's not an impossible thing to do.

00:07:29   - No, you could, I mean, you could get really fancy

00:07:31   and like measure it and 3D print it,

00:07:33   but I feel like there's enough stuff out there

00:07:37   that you could piece something together

00:07:39   that would totally work.

00:07:40   - Let me get back to you on that one.

00:07:41   - Okay, I look forward to seeing--

00:07:42   - I like this as a potential idea,

00:07:44   but especially if I can somehow like incorporate,

00:07:46   it could hold onto the pop socket that I use on my phone.

00:07:49   Oh yeah. Yeah like a little receptacle.

00:07:51   That might make it a bit easier.

00:07:53   Because then I don't even need to worry about the whole MagSafe dealio.

00:07:56   Just like pop it in there and suspend it.

00:07:58   A friend of the show, Alex Cox, recommended that I get a new MagSafe popsocket because it was improved upon and it was improved upon.

00:08:06   Alex was always right about these things and I got a new MagSafe popsocket.

00:08:10   Just like the texture of the plastic that they use is hills nicer and stuff so I'm fully committed to MagSafe popsocket life.

00:08:17   Can I can I just interject here real quick before you get to whatever you were and talk about

00:08:22   About the studio display because I've been willing to talk to you about this for a while and look

00:08:27   you know, we all know we do other podcasts right and

00:08:30   Where you do?

00:08:33   Not you've like said you have more podcasts than me by far. I have two

00:08:38   three sorry ingenious

00:08:40   Well, no, yeah

00:08:42   Yeah, but like do member I mean what like what is a podcast really?

00:08:47   You have a show on the incomparable?

00:08:50   I do have that, that's four.

00:08:52   Okay, I have a lot of podcasts.

00:08:53   See, you have "Lift Off," which is technically not gone.

00:08:57   Yeah.

00:08:58   But it's not gone, is it?

00:08:59   No, that's five.

00:09:00   Anyways.

00:09:03   See?

00:09:03   I can't talk about this with David Sparks,

00:09:05   because David Sparks is a bad influence

00:09:07   when it comes to purchasing technology.

00:09:09   Putting that out there.

00:09:10   Interesting.

00:09:11   Okay.

00:09:11   I have several times over the last couple of months

00:09:16   found myself considering a change to my setup.

00:09:21   And this was made possible,

00:09:24   or the thought process started

00:09:26   when the studio display was introduced.

00:09:28   So I've been using a Pro Display XDR, which I love.

00:09:31   - That's a fancy way to not say flip flop, but go on.

00:09:35   - Well, he's yet to do it.

00:09:38   - Yeah, I'm still just thinking about it

00:09:40   'cause this would be a big change.

00:09:42   I have kind of been thinking about

00:09:45   what if I went to two studio displays instead?

00:09:49   My worst.

00:09:50   And I had basically put this out of my mind

00:09:54   until three days ago.

00:09:56   Okay.

00:09:57   I got home from vacation and the next day,

00:09:59   the calendars for my Kickstarter were gonna arrive

00:10:02   and like I was in no way ready for them to show up

00:10:06   with like 22 boxes of calendars.

00:10:08   So Sunday evening, I rearrange a bunch of stuff

00:10:10   in my office, I set up the table,

00:10:11   I'm gonna print the labels and stuff, right?

00:10:13   And on that table, I'm using Mary's LG 4K display,

00:10:18   which by the way, the stand is broken on it.

00:10:21   It doesn't, like you can move it up and down,

00:10:24   but it doesn't stay up anymore.

00:10:25   It just like slowly sinks back down,

00:10:26   which is very frustrating,

00:10:28   which is apparently why she quit using it.

00:10:30   It just didn't tell me.

00:10:31   But so anyways, I'm using her 4K display

00:10:34   and I have my MacBook Air over there.

00:10:36   So I can like print labels and do all that stuff, right?

00:10:39   And I'm sitting there getting stuff ready.

00:10:42   and I've started packaging some stuff

00:10:44   over the last couple of days,

00:10:46   I was like, man, two displays is really kind of nice.

00:10:49   'Cause I could have- - It is great.

00:10:51   - So when I'm, right now I'm just packing stuff,

00:10:54   I'm not labeling.

00:10:55   Packing stuff is like a mindless job.

00:10:57   And so I've been watching TV while I'm doing it, right?

00:11:01   So I can have my timekeeping, my time tracking,

00:11:05   and a video going, and there's room for everything.

00:11:08   And I'm looking at this big desk I have,

00:11:09   like I bet I could put two studio displays on here but it's a big change

00:11:14   I don't know if it's the right change. Okay well the first thing I'll say is I

00:11:19   am sure that you have said many times I won't ever change from this display

00:11:23   because it was so expensive and so awesome and so... That doesn't seem

00:11:26   like something I would have said. Sound like something you would say that

00:11:29   yeah that also is a good point it probably doesn't sound like something

00:11:31   you would say. I will agree with you that multiple displays is really good like

00:11:36   and I use multiple displays when I record.

00:11:39   And I've wondered what it would be like to have multiple displays on my other desk,

00:11:42   but ultimately I don't think I need that.

00:11:44   But it is nice when I'm recording to have all of the stuff for recording,

00:11:48   like audio hijack and zoom and like just off on the side, but always visible to me.

00:11:53   I don't need to move space to space or whatever.

00:11:55   But your monitor is like 75 inches or something stupid like that, right?

00:11:59   Like I don't, I don't, what like two 28s?

00:12:03   Like I don't know how, plus like,

00:12:05   Didn't you already do this with the studio display

00:12:08   and you weren't happy with the amount of space it took up?

00:12:10   Two 28 inch displays side by side,

00:12:13   that's not going to be incredibly comfortable for you,

00:12:17   I think, with your desk arrangement.

00:12:18   Yeah, maybe it's too much.

00:12:20   But I kind of like the idea of I could see more at once.

00:12:23   I could also use the built in speakers

00:12:26   and save some room on my desk that way.

00:12:27   I don't know.

00:12:28   I'm not going to do it, I don't think.

00:12:30   You wouldn't do that because you like your weird speakers too

00:12:32   much.

00:12:33   like the studio display speakers are fine, but like you like those weird speakers.

00:12:37   They are cool.

00:12:38   If you're going to do two displays like I like the one landscape, one portrait.

00:12:43   Yeah.

00:12:43   I don't think you would be happy with the way that that looked on your desk.

00:12:46   Probably not. I don't know.

00:12:48   I wonder if the 4K can be vertical.

00:12:50   Here's what I'll say to you, Steven.

00:12:52   Do nothing, nothing until the new display comes out.

00:12:56   Yeah, that feels right.

00:12:59   because you guys talked about that on upgrade, I think.

00:13:03   And my guess is that

00:13:07   the pro displays we know today will go away and there'll be something to replace

00:13:11   it. But we'll see.

00:13:12   Although that might suggest you would want to sell your current

00:13:14   pro display before that happens. But like, you know.

00:13:16   Yeah. And I have no idea like what the market is.

00:13:18   I mean, I can't take a bath on this if I do it.

00:13:21   So if they're going for, you know, half on the used market, then forget it.

00:13:26   I mean, they probably are. So we'll see.

00:13:28   But anyway, I want someone to make a mount for the studio display, but if they want,

00:13:33   you know, then I have to make one myself apparently, and Steven, don't do anything with your monitors

00:13:37   yet.

00:13:38   Well, Steven will buy two of them, if you make them.

00:13:41   That's also possible.

00:13:43   So you already have a market.

00:13:45   At least two purchases.

00:13:47   I'm trying sleep tracking.

00:13:48   That was the thing that I was gonna say.

00:13:50   I've done it, like as a follower.

00:13:52   I've done it for like three days now.

00:13:54   Okay.

00:13:55   I'm sleeping my watch on.

00:13:57   And?

00:13:58   using sleep++. There's two things. I like the stats. I think it's really interesting.

00:14:05   I need to use it for longer to see how much I actually think is interesting. My favorite

00:14:10   thing about the whole thing is the readiness score. I find that to be kind of like a fascinating

00:14:15   idea, right? So it says based on all the information you are like this out of 100. It's always

00:14:22   red for me because I tend to sleep less than seven hours which I feel like I

00:14:28   feel like Dave is it's like judging me personally yeah like underscore decided

00:14:34   that if it's less than seven hours he colors it red like your night is colored

00:14:38   red mm-hmm like I feel like I feel like I'm I'm being personally judged by my

00:14:42   friend which is I think it may be a good motivator for me to get more sleep more

00:14:47   - Other than seven hours?

00:14:48   - At least seven hours, yeah.

00:14:51   Well, I actually think everyone.

00:14:53   - Really?

00:14:56   - That's what you're supposed to do, yeah, seven hours.

00:14:59   - Yeah, seven.

00:15:01   - Yeah.

00:15:01   - Huh, interesting.

00:15:03   - What do you do, three?

00:15:04   - Just like five and a half.

00:15:06   - It's called an Italian sleep, that one.

00:15:08   That's what that's called.

00:15:10   - No, I mean, six is like usually the norm for me.

00:15:14   If I sleep like seven hours, I wake up with a headache.

00:15:18   Six and a half tends to be six and a half

00:15:20   to six and hours 45 tends to be my average,

00:15:23   or at least has been in these last few days.

00:15:25   But I know people like Sylvia's sister,

00:15:28   she sleeps for like eight or nine hours,

00:15:30   and like--

00:15:31   I mean, it's probably better for you.

00:15:33   Is it?

00:15:34   Do you wanna hear some of my numbers?

00:15:35   So last night I slept for seven hours,

00:15:37   and I feel it this morning.

00:15:39   Going back, eight hours, five minutes.

00:15:41   There he goes.

00:15:42   Eight hours, six minutes.

00:15:43   Eight hour 28 minutes. What?

00:15:46   How?

00:15:47   This is big, this is big dad sleep, that's what this is.

00:15:50   Eight hours and 58 minutes.

00:15:53   (laughing)

00:15:54   What?

00:15:54   If I slept for nine hours,

00:15:56   I would have to sleep for 10 more hours, right?

00:15:59   Like that's kind of me.

00:16:00   August 4th, nine hours and 40 minutes.

00:16:07   Gee!

00:16:08   Buy in, what?

00:16:10   That's half the day.

00:16:11   Do you check the date? Do you check?

00:16:14   Do you check the date of what day it is when you, when you wake up and like,

00:16:18   what year is it?

00:16:21   That's nine 20 PM to seven AM. Jeez. Oh,

00:16:26   wow. I'm youthful. And when you're young, you need a lot of rest.

00:16:30   Do you like, okay, God. Okay. So anyway, Myke,

00:16:36   so David Smith shames you for sleeping less than seven

00:16:41   hours and then what? That's how I feel he's not actually doing it but like I

00:16:45   feel like I'm letting him down if he's coloring it red I feel this way with

00:16:50   pedometer plus plus too like if I don't get enough steps like I feel like I'm

00:16:54   letting underscore down which is like a weird feeling to have but nevertheless

00:16:57   I'm enjoying it I like the the combo of my phone and the watch going off as the

00:17:02   alarm like that actually is waking me up more because it's like I'm physically

00:17:06   being interrupted as well as the sound but we'll see if I just get used to

00:17:11   that over time. Okay, well thank you for the... I'm trying it. I'm still thinking about that 9 20 p.m.

00:17:18   Look, sometimes you just got to go to bed early, you know. When you went to bed at 9 20 p.m. was

00:17:26   that when you slept for nine hours? Uh-huh, yeah. It was till 7 a.m. the next day. That's an

00:17:32   outlier. Normally I'm right at eight hours. I don't know if this is more shocking to me than

00:17:38   hearing, usually American people say that they eat "dinner" at 6pm, but it's close enough.

00:17:47   Yeah, I also do that. That also feels like big dad dinner. Yeah, that's family. 6pm, man. Come on,

00:17:56   6pm for dinner. It's like lunchtime.

00:18:04   6 p.m. okay. This episode of Connected is brought to you by TextExpander. When you

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00:20:11   show. We've got a big week next week Federico. Are you excited about Ventura?

00:20:18   I can't wait man I've been working on my mecha s Ventura review for the past five

00:20:25   months it's in really good shape got a nice intro conclusion and nothing in

00:20:32   between I mean do you really need any more you know intro conclusions like

00:20:37   would you need any more for exactly exactly I just like the bread who wants

00:20:42   the filler of the sandwich. Interesting. All killer, no filler, baby. Wow. You know, I've

00:20:51   been in that situation before, when like you go to a place and you get a sandwich and you

00:20:58   like the bread more than you like what's inside. Yeah, all killer, no filler. That's how I

00:21:03   live my life. What's up with that? That's how I write my reviews, TVOS review. All killer,

00:21:09   You know what I mean?

00:21:10   Why?

00:21:11   It's 75,000 words?

00:21:12   Come on!

00:21:13   I'm wasting everyone's time here.

00:21:15   I love it.

00:21:17   So, yes.

00:21:19   Mac OS Ventura, iPad OS 16.1 launching on Monday, October 24th.

00:21:26   Right about the time we...

00:21:28   I can't wait for stage manager on the Mac.

00:21:30   I'm being serious.

00:21:31   I can't wait.

00:21:32   I'm excited.

00:21:33   I want to use it.

00:21:34   I want to see what it's all about.

00:21:35   Oh, you're being serious.

00:21:36   You know what I'm going to make my life better.

00:21:37   I'm being genuinely serious.

00:21:38   Yeah, I'm excited.

00:21:41   Ah, okay.

00:21:44   And you never tried it?

00:21:46   Nope.

00:21:47   You don't have a Ventura Beta anywhere?

00:21:49   Nope.

00:21:50   Nowhere.

00:21:51   I don't run Mac betas.

00:21:52   Interesting.

00:21:53   Yeah.

00:21:54   Ah, that'll be fun for you to explore.

00:21:56   Yeah.

00:21:57   I'm gonna install it, and then by next week's episode I will have tried it out, and I can

00:22:01   tell you what I think about, like, real stage manager, you know?

00:22:04   Well, I hope you like Windows jumping around for you.

00:22:09   You know me.

00:22:11   That's what you're going to get, and a lot of it.

00:22:14   We'll find out.

00:22:15   Release candidates for both operating systems are out.

00:22:19   And I guess you guys wanted to get my take on iPadOS 16, no?

00:22:25   I don't know, right? Because you're--

00:22:28   I mean, I'm fine if you don't want to hear my take on it.

00:22:31   We're obviously going to be spending a lot of time next week talking about your 16.1

00:22:37   review, right?

00:22:39   Well, no.

00:22:43   That statement is immediately incorrect, because on Monday I will not publish an iPadOS 16.1

00:22:52   review.

00:22:53   Okie dokie.

00:22:54   On Monday I will publish 10,000 words about iPadOS 16 and Stage Manager.

00:22:59   All right, well, we will talk about that then, whatever that is, right?

00:23:03   Yeah.

00:23:04   But that's good clarification.

00:23:05   Yep.

00:23:06   That it's not actually a review.

00:23:08   I'm happy you're doing it that way.

00:23:09   So we will talk next week about that.

00:23:11   If there's anything you want to add, then feel free, but I don't want to give any

00:23:14   spoilers away for your art core.

00:23:16   No, yeah, we'll talk about that for sure.

00:23:19   But just I wanted to prepare people, I think, on what they should expect.

00:23:26   So I've been thinking about this, I've been discussing this with you guys for the past

00:23:29   month, really, here on the show, like, should I do a full-blown review of iPadOS 16?

00:23:37   And how can I do it if the key feature of it is still so broken, going into the public

00:23:45   release of it?

00:23:46   And I've been thinking about it, and thinking about it, and I've made the decision to split

00:23:51   what I'm going to do in two parts, the second of which will come later, at a date that I

00:23:57   still don't know at the moment. But I've made the decision to put out a story on Monday

00:24:04   that is just about stage manager. I think that's what I need to do right now. I think

00:24:14   That's what I want to do right now.

00:24:17   And it's usually a good indication for me when I sit down to write something and

00:24:24   the words just come out.

00:24:26   I wrote 10,000 words about stage manager and stage manager alone in

00:24:31   Epidemic 16 in three days.

00:24:33   That's it.

00:24:35   I had excellent notes.

00:24:37   I was actually talking to Sylvia about this.

00:24:39   She was like, how did you do it?

00:24:41   like 10,000 in three words is a lot even by your standards. I had really good notes that I took

00:24:50   over the past five months. So I basically hit the ground running on Monday. So I was really happy

00:24:57   about that. But I feel like this is what people expect. This is what people want to talk about

00:25:02   right now. This is what I want to talk about right now. But there are other things in iPadOS 16.

00:25:08   There's other things I want to talk about. Display scaling, customizable toolbars, some of the other desktop class features.

00:25:15   But I'm going to talk about those at a later time.

00:25:18   And on Monday, what you will get is a deep dive into Sage Manager and all the aspects of it, all the problems I have with it.

00:25:27   The things I like about it, there's a few things I like about it.

00:25:30   This story will not have a special layout.

00:25:36   There will not be an EPUB of this.

00:25:39   This will be something in between.

00:25:45   It's a really deep dive into Stage Manager, so it's that kind of long-form story, but

00:25:51   it also looks like a regular Max Stories article.

00:25:54   And I'm actually thinking about putting it on a single page on Max Stories.

00:26:00   Because I want to make sure that all of it stays on one page, from top to bottom.

00:26:08   And that was my thinking.

00:26:10   The other things in iPadOS 16 are well done, and people will start appreciating them right

00:26:16   away.

00:26:17   But this one we need to talk about right now.

00:26:19   And that's why I made the call for a bunch of reasons, the primary one being, at this

00:26:27   moment right now, I'm inspired to just write about this. That's what I'm doing.

00:26:33   I think it's the best thing to do. I mean, honestly, people that are paying attention

00:26:37   to your work, like this is what they want, actually want. They don't really care, I would

00:26:41   assume, as much about like, how does the collaboration on iPadOS 16 work? Like, at some point, sure,

00:26:48   we can get into that.

00:26:49   Yeah, and John, I should say John, is also putting out a Mac OS Ventura review on Monday,

00:26:55   And all that stuff is in the Ventura Review.

00:26:58   Collaboration, the new FaceTime stuff,

00:27:01   the new SharePlay stuff, like all of that is in that story.

00:27:05   So that also made me feel like, okay,

00:27:08   so maybe I can just focus on stage manager for iPad

00:27:13   and that'll be fine.

00:27:14   - Yeah, I mean, if this were in a vacuum,

00:27:17   you would have to cover all the rest of it, right?

00:27:20   But because we're in this space now

00:27:22   where so many of these features are shared

00:27:24   between all the platforms, like,

00:27:25   - Yes. - Stage Manager should be

00:27:27   what you're focusing on,

00:27:28   because that's the big deal for iPadOS.

00:27:30   You know, iMessage editing and the share places,

00:27:33   all that other stuff's everywhere else,

00:27:35   so those other articles can cover those for now.

00:27:37   - Yeah, and I mean, and I already did the iOS 16 review.

00:27:43   So like, all those basics are already covered.

00:27:46   And I figured that, you know,

00:27:49   this summer has really been,

00:27:51   well, we're not in the summer anymore,

00:27:54   But these past five months, five months, have really been a journey for me with Stage Manager.

00:28:01   And I talk about this in the review, like the review, well, I call it the review, it's

00:28:05   not a review, it's a story.

00:28:07   But in the story, like, it starts and it takes a very meta approach.

00:28:13   Like I start talking about the article itself.

00:28:17   And I go through all those, no pun intended, stages.

00:28:21   Ah, you meant it.

00:28:23   Bear with me, please.

00:28:25   Don't put the sound effect in Steven later.

00:28:29   Please don't do it.

00:28:30   Please.

00:28:31   No, the bell is so crushing, right?

00:28:34   Yes.

00:28:36   It's like, no, it's not a bit.

00:28:38   It's just a sentence that I spoke.

00:28:40   Yeah.

00:28:44   But like, I actually went back and read my first impressions story from,

00:28:50   from July, right? So that's three weeks after WWDC. And I was very optimistic about Stage

00:28:58   Manager. And I started thinking, like, obviously not every article ages well, right? Just because

00:29:08   it's the nature of what we do. You write about a topic and you have three weeks of experience

00:29:15   with it, you're going to have an opinion. You write about the same topic with five months

00:29:21   of experience with it, you're going to have a different opinion. That's just how technology

00:29:25   works. And I'm fine with it. It's been that long though. Five months, five monks, five

00:29:32   not monks months, and we all know that's too many monks.

00:29:42   Five months with it. But, but I thought about like, how can you, how can you go from thinking,

00:29:52   Oh, this is obviously the future to whatever this story is coming out as. And one of the

00:30:02   them is, yes, experience, just using the thing for a much, much longer period of time. But

00:30:09   the other aspect is, like, honestly, this feature just got worse with time. Like, it

00:30:18   didn't get better. Like, it actually got worse. Technically, from an interaction point of

00:30:26   of view, all the different things they tried, sort of throwing spaghetti

00:30:33   interactions at the wall and seeing what sticks. It's a rare instance of something

00:30:41   getting worse during the beta cycle. And so, yeah, I thought about, like, why did I

00:30:52   say those things in July and why am I saying these things now? But yeah, I mean

00:30:59   I guess you'll find out the rest in the article and we'll talk about this next

00:31:03   Wednesday. It should be... I don't want to say fun, but it should be interesting.

00:31:10   Interesting, I think is a good way to put it. Because it's not gonna be fun, right?

00:31:13   I don't think it's gonna be fun. This isn't a fun thing, this is annoying.

00:31:17   No. Like this is a frustrating experience. It's gonna lead to a lot of interesting

00:31:22   conversations as it has done already right and like to see all of your

00:31:26   thoughts in one place it's going to be like I think quite a overwhelming

00:31:32   experience honestly is my expectation yes that's a fun it is not it would be

00:31:38   fun if this worked the way that we wanted to you know like that's the true

00:31:41   fun yeah and like overwhelming I think it's a good way to put it and there's a

00:31:47   specifically the two sections before the conclusions when where where I

00:31:53   really go for it yeah you will see but but there's a lot to talk about and and

00:32:00   I tried to set aside my my feelings as much as possible like I try to like

00:32:09   right now like I gotta be honest with you guys we talked about this on the

00:32:13   show. Right now, I'm exhausted. And I'm not exhausted because, ooh, poor tichy had to

00:32:18   write 10,000 words in three days. No, it's not. It's the five months of talking about

00:32:23   this. Like, I want to move on. It's an emotionally draining experience. It's been emotionally

00:32:29   draining and I just want to move on. But I try to set that aside as much as possible

00:32:35   and be like, OK, I'm a person testing this for the first time. What do I think about

00:32:41   Like, that's the perspective I tried to use for this article, and still, it wasn't fun.

00:32:48   So don't come to this story for the fun of it.

00:32:52   I hope you will come for the detail of it and the examples.

00:32:57   If anything, I try to document all the things I talk about with videos and screenshots and

00:33:04   just details.

00:33:07   cases, non-edge cases like regular stuff that most people do, that'll be out on Monday.

00:33:15   And we'll see what happens, I suppose.

00:33:18   It could have been such a celebratory time, right?

00:33:21   Because we've talked about the desire for more powerful multitasking on this device

00:33:26   forever, and this really could have been a really groundbreaking moment for the iPad,

00:33:34   it into a new era and maybe stage manager can still do that but it's not

00:33:41   doing it on day one right and so it's going to be forever tainted by its

00:33:47   launch and I you know my sort of fear with it if you will it's probably too

00:33:52   strong of a word is that people are going to you know read coverage of it

00:33:58   like you know what's what you're writing or others are writing and doing videos

00:34:02   is on all completely fair criticism.

00:34:05   And they're gonna say, "Oh, well, that's not for me."

00:34:07   And they're never gonna check it out.

00:34:09   Or they're gonna have a bad experience

00:34:11   and basically just write it off forever, right?

00:34:16   I think the analogy that comes to mind for me

00:34:19   or another similar situation is iCloud, right?

00:34:23   MobileMe was really bad.

00:34:24   People were afraid of iCloud

00:34:26   that it would eat all their contacts.

00:34:27   And you know what?

00:34:28   The early days of iCloud weren't that great.

00:34:30   Now it's pretty good,

00:34:31   but there's still those echoes of Apple's bad at services

00:34:35   that continue to haunt them to this day.

00:34:37   And that is what I fear is gonna happen to stage manager.

00:34:40   Even if they fix all of the bugs,

00:34:44   and say we don't have to wait to iPad OS 17,

00:34:47   heaven forbid they actually do actual work

00:34:50   and a point update to make this better,

00:34:53   the launch has poisoned the water, right?

00:34:56   And I don't know if they're going to get past that

00:34:59   anytime soon, and that's a bummer to me

00:35:01   because while personally the way that it works

00:35:05   doesn't really work for me, also I'm an iPad mini user,

00:35:08   so take, you know, not really,

00:35:10   no, have it on an iPad anyways,

00:35:12   but there will be people,

00:35:14   there will be people who this will click for,

00:35:18   but it'll be turned off by the bugs, right?

00:35:20   There's a difference between,

00:35:22   oh, this like jives the way that I work,

00:35:25   and this is broken and like it crashes all the time, right?

00:35:29   And unfortunately, the bugs outweigh the possibility

00:35:34   for anyone to jive with it,

00:35:36   because they're gonna be frustrated

00:35:37   with all the problems that you've written about.

00:35:40   - Yeah, Apple Maps also comes to mind when you say that,

00:35:46   and look how long it took for people to realize,

00:35:49   oh, Apple Maps is actually good now, like a decade.

00:35:53   One of the things that I have actually

00:35:55   in the introduction of the story,

00:35:59   I'm sure, like, there have been moments when using Stage Manager has felt nice over the

00:36:08   past two weeks.

00:36:10   But that feeling required a lot of adjustment.

00:36:17   Because all the bugs we've been talking about for the past month, here on the show, they

00:36:23   are all here in the release candidate version.

00:36:27   All the bugs are here.

00:36:29   They never left. They're all in the shipping version of Stage Manager.

00:36:33   We're still talking about the same things. Magic keyword bugs, changing orientation bugs.

00:36:40   Like, all of those things. They're still here. But I know how to deal with them.

00:36:48   My concern is, well, obviously not everybody has been dealing with this for five months, you know?

00:36:58   And so, but one of the things I have in the intro is,

00:37:02   I know I'm fully aware of the fact

00:37:07   that there's gonna be people who are going to update

00:37:10   to Stage Manager, to iPad S16 on Monday,

00:37:13   use Stage Manager and be like, "Oh, I don't get

00:37:16   "that VTT guy, why was he complaining about this?"

00:37:19   I get it.

00:37:21   Some of you out there will like this.

00:37:25   And it's not that I don't like the idea of this, but you'll see next week.

00:37:32   And there's also the fact that, I don't know, when I see these tweets from people,

00:37:39   like even yesterday and today, have you been reporting this feedback to Apple

00:37:46   as radars or whatever they're called, feedback items?

00:37:51   - Feedbacks, no, feedbacks. - Feedbacks.

00:37:53   And I wish I could get into the details of this, but the answer is yes.

00:37:57   Many, many, many times over the summer.

00:38:03   And yet, you know, that didn't really do anything.

00:38:09   So I cannot buy into the theory that one of our excellent Discord members, Mark, shared a few minutes ago in the Discord

00:38:22   in the Discord as Mark was listening to this episode live. It kind of feels like Apple doesn't

00:38:30   know what Pro Power users don't like about Stage Manager anymore, and it's kind of like they're

00:38:41   putting this out right now because they need to understand what's wrong with it by releasing it

00:38:48   in the public, which is not the most absurd theory I have heard lately. I do believe that a part of

00:38:59   Apple has kind of lost the thread of this lately, and they see that people have a problem with it,

00:39:08   but they don't have the full context or the lengthy details of what the problem is exactly.

00:39:17   So maybe treat this as a more public beta test, if you will.

00:39:24   My recommendation is to try Stage Manager. See if you like it. See what you don't like.

00:39:31   My recommendation is to not use it for production work or for anything that involves a critical task on your iPad.

00:39:39   That you can expect from my story on Monday.

00:39:45   Plus a lot more detail. But we'll get into that next week.

00:39:49   I'm looking forward to reading it, buddy. Thank you.

00:39:51   I'll send you a draft soon. Yes.

00:39:54   Everybody else will need to wait.

00:39:56   Haha.

00:39:57   Yeah, Myke, you have to wait.

00:39:59   You could have started a podcast with me in 2013.

00:40:02   In that case, you would have a draft, but you didn't. So.

00:40:05   So, haha. Sucks to be you.

00:40:13   This episode of Connected is brought to you by CleanMyMac X.

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00:42:08   - Stage manager, smage manager.

00:42:12   There's no monks here, it's time to talk about

00:42:14   the Apple TV, baby, hello.

00:42:16   I'm Myke Hurley, I'm TVOS guy, as known as TVOS guy,

00:42:20   Myke Hurley.

00:42:22   You may remember me from such stories as TVOS 16 review,

00:42:26   TVOS 15 review, TVOS 14 review, and more.

00:42:31   Well I'm here to tell you about this brand new deal

00:42:34   you can get on an Apple TV. Apple TV new one we'll call it. There is features the

00:42:42   A15 bionic with 4GB of RAM. Why are you a salesman right now? I don't know. It's where I ended up.

00:42:48   I didn't mean this when I started it but it just started and now here I am. It just happened.

00:42:53   Okay. It features support for HDR 10+. I don't know who put this in here but I

00:42:58   assume Steven. 12% thinner and around 50% lighter than the previous Apple TV 4k.

00:43:03   That's important. You want it to be thinner and lighter.

00:43:06   Yeah, oh man, if there's one thing I've needed from the Apple TV, it's thinner and lighter.

00:43:09   It's like, please make this thing smaller.

00:43:11   Don't you hold your Apple TV every night before you go to sleep?

00:43:15   Also, I bet some people really care about this, but they really shouldn't. It doesn't have a fan inside of it.

00:43:21   I mean, would you have known? Who knew? Who knew there was a fan in the Apple TV? Like, you could hear that thing.

00:43:27   Only one person.

00:43:28   And I don't even beli- that fan's inside of his head. You know what I mean?

00:43:31   Wow.

00:43:32   The fan is coming from inside the head now, you know?

00:43:37   Someone's gotta cool that brain down.

00:43:39   Well I know that Apple TV had one fan and that was you man.

00:43:43   Yeah baby!

00:43:44   It's me!

00:43:45   Oh I love it.

00:43:46   There are two Apple TV configurations.

00:43:49   It's $129 for the 64GB which is down $50 and $149 for the 128GB and that's now the only

00:43:57   one that has ethernet and a Thread radio.

00:44:01   - Okay, before we talk about thread and matter,

00:44:03   'cause that's a thing,

00:44:05   what do y'all think about the lack of ethernet?

00:44:08   My Apple TV is plugged into ethernet,

00:44:11   but only because I have a switch

00:44:13   literally sitting right next to it.

00:44:15   I would not run ethernet to my Apple TV otherwise.

00:44:18   - This is zero of a problem.

00:44:20   - Yeah, I agree.

00:44:22   - Like a Nintendo Switch?

00:44:23   - I mean, that's also on the TV,

00:44:27   but like an ethernet switch.

00:44:28   - Oh, okay.

00:44:29   Oh my god, I did not.

00:44:31   Did not.

00:44:32   I was sitting there, my brain was trying to get around that one and it couldn't.

00:44:36   Yeah, no, this was right there.

00:44:38   He sucked the Joy-Con right out of the room, you know?

00:44:40   I think this makes sense, right?

00:44:42   Take stuff out of the Apple TV, make it as cheap as you possibly can.

00:44:47   Ethernet is...

00:44:48   Ethernet for a streaming TV device is a niche thing.

00:44:53   Yeah.

00:44:54   Have it as an option on the most expensive one.

00:44:56   This makes perfect sense to me.

00:44:58   And I don't know about the current one, but for a long time, the Apple TV, I think including

00:45:04   mine was only 100 megabit, like, because you don't need to go any faster. Yeah, for streaming

00:45:11   Hulu. Right. So I agree with you, I don't think it's a big deal. Some people will complain

00:45:14   about it. But like I said, the only reason mine is plugged in, is because I have ethernet

00:45:19   coming out of the wall into an era, and out of the era into just a little like five port

00:45:25   because I have a Mac Mini and the Apple TV, you know, plugged in to be, I did want the

00:45:30   Mac Mini on Ethernet and I have a, I do have a Nintendo Switch there as well, but that,

00:45:34   you know, no Ethernet for Mario.

00:45:37   You can actually get a Switch with an Ethernet.

00:45:39   There's like a USB-C adapter?

00:45:42   No there's a, the dock has Ethernet in it, not your version.

00:45:46   The OLED Switch comes with a dock that has an Ethernet port.

00:45:48   Oh yeah, I've got the previous one.

00:45:52   So tell us about the Thread Radio thing, because I've read some stuff on it and I honestly

00:45:55   don't know what the deal is here.

00:45:57   We've all read the article from prolific fake news spreader John Voorhees, right?

00:46:05   Over on Sketchy Mac Stories, where John said that because it has a Thread Radio in it,

00:46:12   it can be a matter controller.

00:46:14   I've been spending way too much time reading about matter recently, and this is only half

00:46:20   accurate.

00:46:21   My understanding is all of these Apple TVs can be matter controllers because to

00:46:28   be a matter controller you needs to have an app like the home app and an app is

00:46:33   actually the controller. The Thread Radio will in theory allow for devices that

00:46:39   will support matter over thread to connect to the Apple TV if it's your

00:46:45   home hub because thread is not matter.

00:46:49   Like matter is supported by devices that have networking.

00:46:53   So if you just have devices that are thread only and that's how they talk to

00:46:57   each other,

00:46:58   they can't join a matter home without a bridge in the middle.

00:47:01   It is unknown if the Apple TV can work as a bridge

00:47:07   as of right now for matter devices.

00:47:10   My understanding is the device makers need to update their devices

00:47:16   so they can work as matter over thread.

00:47:18   And if that's the case, then the Apple TV can do that.

00:47:23   So easy like Apple TV is a Manta controller.

00:47:27   The Thread one will be able to connect to Thread devices.

00:47:30   Otherwise, it won't be able to.

00:47:33   So what you're saying is that Thread doesn't matter.

00:47:38   Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

00:48:08   thread because it's not that simple and you may need to like say for example you

00:48:13   have a bunch of... Federico you've bought some thread stuff before right? What's a

00:48:18   company that's really in on thread? Is it like Eve? Eve? So like Eve might make a

00:48:23   matter bridge device which will connect all of their thread devices to a matter

00:48:30   home and then it will be done. That's the matter part and the Siri remote now has

00:48:37   USB-C. Yeah. Instead of lightning. The tide is turning away from away from lightning.

00:48:44   Well, let's hear the iPad. We'll talk about that in a minute. In the there's not a USB-C

00:48:49   cable in the box. But I guess Apple assumes you have a USB-C charger, because you have

00:48:54   other devices. If you just have an Apple TV and an iPhone, too bad. Go buy a USB-C cable.

00:49:00   Yeah, I mean, that seems weird to me anyway.

00:49:04   Believe it or not, there are new tvOS features.

00:49:07   There are more tvOS features in tvOS post 16

00:49:12   that we didn't know about,

00:49:14   than there were, I think, in all of tvOS 16.

00:49:18   So tvOS 16.1/tvOS 16.2,

00:49:22   some of these features are said to be coming later this year,

00:49:24   but as of right now, it seems a bit complicated to actually work out which is which,

00:49:28   features a new compact Siri UI.

00:49:31   So it looks more like the Siri UI on the phones now,

00:49:34   where it kind of like it's got the little,

00:49:36   what is that animation called Federico?

00:49:38   Is it got a name?

00:49:39   The little Siri logo thing?

00:49:42   I have no idea.

00:49:43   You know what I'm talking about?

00:49:44   The little orb, right?

00:49:45   The Siri logo thing, yes.

00:49:47   And you know, I like now if you speak to Siri,

00:49:49   like on the phone, it like kind of looks like

00:49:51   little speech bubbles in a way, like these little cards,

00:49:54   and then it puts the answers above them.

00:49:55   That's coming to tvOS.

00:49:58   Nice.

00:49:58   As well as Siri voice recognition for up to six family members.

00:50:03   So if the three of us live together, which would be really quite a thing.

00:50:09   If Federico said, give me some recommendations and Steven said, give me some recommendations.

00:50:14   They're going to be different.

00:50:15   You know, like Federico says, give me some recommendations.

00:50:18   It will say, here's the newest episode of the Big Brother.

00:50:21   And if Steven said, give me some recommendations.

00:50:24   it would be like, "Here's some nerdy stuff." You know, just give them that to watch. Or

00:50:30   some football or whatever, because Steven's like big on sports now is my understanding.

00:50:35   So it gives them different recommendations because it can understand who they are.

00:50:38   Also if you're wearing AirPods connected to an Apple TV and you use the wake phrase,

00:50:46   you know, it will now just respond to that. One thing that Matt C said in Discord, which I agree

00:50:52   with the remote doesn't have you want support or like built in air tags or

00:50:57   something so you can still lose it pretty easily that that I really don't

00:51:02   lose it you know what I mean just I mean you don't live in a household with

00:51:05   children let me tell you son they get lost just don't just don't lose it get

00:51:10   four of them they're expensive I my expectation for that kind of thing I

00:51:14   agree but like it's the expense how much could a you one chip cost million

00:51:19   dollars I mean they put them in iPhones and then do anything with them for a

00:51:22   year like sprinkle them over everything. I think you're forgetting the airdrop UI that

00:51:28   never worked. Oh yeah. That never works right? It never worked. It never made any sense what

00:51:36   it did and it never did anything. And they just ignored it. Like they didn't. It's like

00:51:41   shh. Stop asking. They were like is this a positional airdrop in the room with us right

00:51:51   "Yeah, you sh*tted like no, no we didn't."

00:51:57   That's the new Apple TV.

00:51:59   I feel no reason for anyone to upgrade if you already have a 4K model.

00:52:03   Yeah there is.

00:52:04   I mean, if you have a really good TV, you may benefit from HDR10+.

00:52:10   I guess so.

00:52:11   That's kind of it.

00:52:14   And or, if Apple ever, or anybody can ever announce as to whether this Thread thing will

00:52:21   actually connect matter devices together right yeah maybe then but if you've

00:52:28   really gone all in on thread devices there's probably going to be another

00:52:32   solution for you or just get a home pod mini again if that will work we don't

00:52:39   know right really this is still more clarity to come in November I think for

00:52:44   some for the kind of fun yeah this is of this stuff I hope you get to go to the

00:52:47   matter press event since you're the matter expert on relay FM now yeah I

00:52:50   I mean they should really right but like no one's I haven't got my invite yet

00:52:55   you matter thank you to me Myke yeah so when are people getting all of this as

00:53:01   early as Monday the Apple TV and tv us

00:53:05   yeah the the not the tv has 16 features oh

00:53:09   as soon as Monday yeah I think it's Monday because point one is out

00:53:14   everywhere right but not all these features are in

00:53:17   point one right yeah right so are you as you can't even order a new Apple TV box

00:53:22   until November weird I'm sorry I just loaded the page and was distracted by

00:53:27   facts I did not know that big news new iPad Pro the iPad Pro has been updated

00:53:36   supercharged with an m2 processor like in the MacBook Air and the 13 inch

00:53:42   MacBook Pro. Physically, they're basically the same same design we've had now. Same

00:53:48   Thunderbolt port on the short end, the camera is still where it was really the

00:53:54   biggest hardware change, I think, comes in the form of some faster networking. So

00:54:00   Wi Fi, six E and 5g support. But it also includes something called Apple pencil

00:54:05   hover. Federico, can you explain this to us?

00:54:10   So in theory, this feature will work with the second generation Apple Pencil.

00:54:15   There's no new Apple Pencil to use this feature.

00:54:19   But Apple Pencil Hover will allow you to hover with your Apple Pencil

00:54:29   over any UI element on the iPad 16,

00:54:34   And the interface will react to the hovering tip of the Apple Pencil within, I believe,

00:54:42   it's 12mm, so it uses real close proximity to the display.

00:54:49   And things will happen before you actually touch the iPad screen with the Apple Pencil.

00:54:58   that were shown off and explained to the press about this feature, where, for example, in

00:55:05   Apple Notes you will be able to preview a color before placing it on the page.

00:55:12   Or for example, if you're hovering with the Apple Pencil and you have selected a color

00:55:18   in the Apple Notes Drawing Tools, and you hover with the Apple Pencil over another color,

00:55:25   you will be able to preview the mix of those two colors before actually drawing with the

00:55:32   Apple Pencil on screen.

00:55:33   But this goes beyond... that's very nice.

00:55:36   And this goes beyond drawing and sketching tools.

00:55:40   So for example, you will be able to hover with the Apple Pencil on the home screen,

00:55:45   and you will see icons be selected as you hover over them.

00:55:50   A little cursor, a little cursor actually.

00:55:52   It's exactly the equivalent of having a pointer or the tvOS focus engine, but with a hovering

00:56:01   Apple Pencil.

00:56:02   And I believe, if my understanding is correct of this, you will be able to hover over any

00:56:08   UI element that otherwise supports the pointer.

00:56:12   Like, I don't know, clicking a link in Safari, or previewing a document in files.

00:56:19   an API for developers to specifically optimize for this feature, unlike StageManager, but in

00:56:29   general this should work out of the box, quote-unquote, "for free" with any native interface element of

00:56:37   IAPET OS, which is pretty cool. But I have a question. I know that a similar feature...

00:56:45   And get this, because I don't think you guys know about this.

00:56:47   A similar feature already exists in iPadOS on an older 2020 or 2021 iPad Pro.

00:57:00   It's called Hover Text, and it's an accessibility feature that you can enable in accessibility

00:57:07   settings, and it does exactly what it says. It lets you hover with the Apple

00:57:14   Pencil over text fields and other UI elements in the iPadOS UI, and you're

00:57:22   hovering, right? You're hovering with the Apple Pencil. You're not touching the

00:57:25   screen, you're hovering with the tip of the Pencil. And when you do, if this

00:57:31   feature is enabled, you get a little readout, you get a little pop-up that

00:57:37   tells you what you're hovering over with the Apple Pencil.

00:57:42   That's interesting, right?

00:57:44   That it's already, in a way, technically possible.

00:57:48   Now, I would like to get more details from Apple

00:57:52   about how and why Apple Pencil Hover

00:57:55   is different from Hover Text.

00:57:58   My hope is that Apple Pencil Hover is faster

00:58:04   and uses the new hardware to pull for changes in hovering Apple Pencil far more frequently

00:58:18   than hover text does on older hardware.

00:58:24   Because it would sure be awkward if this was another case of Apple artificially limiting

00:58:32   feature on new hardware where it's actually technically possible on older

00:58:38   iPad models as well. So I'm looking forward to a technical explanation about

00:58:43   this. I'm sure there is one. We still haven't heard the details about this. So

00:58:48   I just thought I'd mention this. I've never tried that, I didn't know that

00:58:51   existed. I mean, what I wanted to say there was a Wacom tablet user. This is

00:58:56   basically that kind of functionality. So when I use a Wacom tablet with my Mac,

00:59:02   If I have the tip of the pen hovering over the tablet, it moves the cursor around.

00:59:11   And then when I place the tip down, physically touching, that's when I can select something.

00:59:18   So if I'm hovering around a document, I can move the cursor around with it above the tablet.

00:59:24   And then when I actually touch the tip of the pen to the tablet, it would then start a text selection.

00:59:30   It sounds like it's going to work somewhat like that, which is cool, and I would be interested

00:59:37   to see how some apps could use it.

00:59:40   But I find that to be really...

00:59:42   I didn't even know the iPad could do this.

00:59:43   I didn't know that the iPad screen had the ability to detect the pencil in that way.

00:59:51   That's fascinating.

00:59:52   I mean, you've got to hope that, as you say, it's like this is a better, more reliable

00:59:58   version of it.

00:59:59   I hope that's the case.

01:00:02   I mean, it sure looked like it was much faster

01:00:05   than hover texting demos.

01:00:08   I'm just curious about what exactly

01:00:12   in the hardware enables this,

01:00:14   because it sure isn't the Apple Pencil, right?

01:00:16   It's still the same Apple Pencil.

01:00:18   - No, it should be a sense layer in the screen.

01:00:20   - Should be something like that, right?

01:00:24   Some hardware change that you physically cannot get

01:00:28   in an M1 iPad Pro at least.

01:00:31   - Yep.

01:00:32   - So we'll see about that.

01:00:34   - I think all in all people are kind of lukewarm

01:00:38   on the iPad Pro update,

01:00:40   but not every update can be super exciting, right?

01:00:43   They continue to update this product every 18 months

01:00:46   and we can talk about some of the things

01:00:49   that it didn't get in the next section,

01:00:51   but all in all, like if you have an older iPad Pro,

01:00:54   maybe like a pre-redesigned one

01:00:57   that or one that's not going to get stage manager.

01:01:00   I don't think it's a bad machine.

01:01:02   It's just, you know, not as flashy as some people, I guess, wanted it to be,

01:01:06   but it can't be that every time.

01:01:08   Justice for the 11 inch.

01:01:10   It did not get a mini led display.

01:01:13   That's a bummer.

01:01:13   That's so sad.

01:01:15   And I saw a rumor now that the expectation is they're probably just going to wait

01:01:19   and put them all to OLED, but that's not likely to hit until at least 2024.

01:01:24   So like, that 11 inch, I don't even understand why it exists.

01:01:29   I don't get it.

01:01:30   I don't get it now.

01:01:31   Like, what is it doing?

01:01:33   - I'm gonna tell you guys something.

01:01:36   - Tell us.

01:01:37   - I have been entertaining,

01:01:39   entertaining the idea

01:01:43   of actually using an 11 inch iPad Pro

01:01:47   as my main iPad Pro lately

01:01:50   because of the display scaling feature.

01:01:54   in a iPadOS 16. If you display scale an 11" iPad Pro to use the More Space setting, you

01:02:01   get the same pixel density of a 12.9" iPad Pro, and a much, much more compact package.

01:02:09   And I don't know. I've kind of been thinking about it. The price of a refurbished 11" iPad

01:02:21   with M1 dropped as of today or yesterday? Because if there's one thing I don't like

01:02:28   about the big iPad Pro is that when you hold it as a tablet, you know, you're like Moses,

01:02:34   basically.

01:02:35   Yeah, what I should say is I feel like I was a little harsh when I said because I'm upset

01:02:39   about it, but like I've long said that I thought the 11 inch was the better choice for iPad

01:02:45   Pro because it has much of everything and especially now that display scanning feature

01:02:49   you can effectively have what you can have on screen on a 12 inch on an 11 inch they're

01:02:54   just like shrunken down but I'm just really disappointed that they did not find a way

01:03:00   to bring that screen to the 11 inch like I really feel like they got lost somewhere with

01:03:06   this display tech for some reason like I'm not sure why they introduced it all that time

01:03:11   ago like on the 12.9 if they were not intending to put it on anything else like it's just

01:03:17   on that display and then on the MacBooks like pros. It's just very weird to me. I'm not

01:03:23   sure what happened there or what the plan was there for the 11 inch, but it seems like

01:03:29   along the way it got lost.

01:03:30   Yeah, if only they were making a folding iPad, you know, because what I love about the 12.9

01:03:37   is that when I place it on my desk or I'm using it on my lap, it's big enough to have

01:03:43   multiple windows now. So that part I like. What I don't like is when I detach it

01:03:48   from the keyboard, there's so much tablet. I feel like the 12.9 is kind of

01:03:54   unusable as a quote-unquote tablet. It's not unusable. For me, it is. This is too big.

01:04:00   But it's a statement, you know, when you're using that as a tablet.

01:04:07   My favorite is the mini, so you know what I mean? I guess it's a big difference.

01:04:12   like two of them three of them I just really want a folding iPad I think yeah

01:04:20   give me something like don't let me choose between big and small why not

01:04:26   both you know okay no that's us yeah this episode of connected is brought to

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01:06:15   off your first hover purchase. Once again that's hover.com/connected

01:06:21   to get 10% off. Our thanks to Hover for the support of the show. The iPad Pro was

01:06:28   not the only new iPad introduced this week. We also got a new now 10th

01:06:33   generation iPad. This is the base iPad model. iPad X. iPad X. It has been

01:06:40   redesigned to basically fall in line with the iPad Air and the iPad Pro. So the

01:06:46   flat sides, no home button, it now uses all the gestures. Touch ID is in the

01:06:52   power button like some of the other iPads and it comes in four colors.

01:06:56   silver, yellow, pink, and blue. And I don't know about y'all but I have like strong iPhone

01:07:03   5c vibes from these colors. They seem, at least online and pictures I've seen,

01:07:08   very vibrant and and bright and fun. So that's good. The screen is now 10.9

01:07:14   inches so it's just creeping up in size over time and it uses the A14 Bionic

01:07:20   chip so no stage manager just the a14 5d support which is a feature in and of

01:07:27   itself is a feature in of itself you don't want stage manager this is the one

01:07:31   to get and it has no headphone jack so headphone jack people I'm sorry about

01:07:36   the news you can use a USB C to 3.5 millimeter if you need to the pencil

01:07:41   support is a thing Myke can you walk us through these changes I don't know if

01:07:46   you want me to be the one to walk you through I mean I can I want you

01:07:49   specifically to be the one to walk us through these changes.

01:07:52   Alright, alright, alright.

01:07:54   So this iPad supports the original Apple Pencil.

01:08:00   So not the one from 2015, not the one that charges on the side, it's the one with the

01:08:05   little cap and you take the little cap off and you got a lightning port.

01:08:09   They did not update this Apple Pencil to feature a USB-C port because that's now what this

01:08:15   one has.

01:08:17   Neither did they put the inductive charging technology on the side of this iPad so you

01:08:23   could charge it.

01:08:25   It has a smart connector on the side but they didn't create a new pencil that charges via

01:08:30   that smart connector or anything.

01:08:33   So it supports the Gen 1 pencil.

01:08:36   If you need to charge this now you will have to use an adapter and a USB-C charging cable.

01:08:45   The Apple Pencil now ships with this adapter if you buy it new.

01:08:51   If you have an old one you need to buy the adapter.

01:08:53   The adapter is hilariously large.

01:08:56   It's a very large adapter.

01:08:58   Yeah.

01:08:59   Which I find funny.

01:09:01   So you may be thinking, "Oh Myke, come on, burn them down."

01:09:05   No, I think the outrage to this online is ridiculous.

01:09:09   I think people need to chill out.

01:09:12   Right?

01:09:13   This is like, everyone already hated this Apple pencil, right?

01:09:16   It's like, oh, you have to plug it in to charge it.

01:09:19   You know what?

01:09:20   They fixed that.

01:09:21   Yeah.

01:09:22   Right?

01:09:23   You fixed that.

01:09:24   You complained.

01:09:25   Now they fixed it.

01:09:26   You don't plug it into the iPad anymore.

01:09:27   All right.

01:09:28   You didn't want to do it, did you?

01:09:29   You complained for years.

01:09:30   Look at this design.

01:09:31   And everyone thought that was so funny, even though that made sense because you have the

01:09:34   device, you just charge it with the device.

01:09:36   Well now they fixed it.

01:09:37   Now you have to get a cable and a little thing and you charge it.

01:09:41   I mean, surely there was a better way than a dongle to do this.

01:09:49   Right there was, but the way to do it is like a thing they don't want to do, which is we're

01:09:54   going to redesign the first gen Apple Pencil for this one iPad, like they're not going

01:09:59   to do it.

01:10:00   Or, and get this, stop using the product from 2015 and use the second generation Apple Pencil.

01:10:09   So the complicating factor here is that the camera is now on the long side, which is...

01:10:15   That's the right decision, right?

01:10:16   That's where the camera should be.

01:10:18   It's not my problem though.

01:10:20   Like you are designing the thing.

01:10:23   Nah, I think they made the right set of decisions.

01:10:26   You know what you should do though?

01:10:28   Just buy the Logitech Crayon.

01:10:29   As a USB-C port in the top, you just plug...

01:10:32   I don't want to buy a thing that's called a crayon.

01:10:35   Like I'm not a kid.

01:10:36   Logitech Crayon, baby.

01:10:37   Not a child.

01:10:39   The realistic situation is, right, and I think, look, nobody knows how the iPad is used more

01:10:47   than Apple.

01:10:48   They decided what they thought was best to do is to put that camera on that long edge

01:10:54   and just let people deal with the Apple Pencil.

01:10:57   My expectation is the majority of people that are buying the regular iPad are not buying

01:11:05   an Apple Pencil to go along with it.

01:11:07   Because if they were, I have no doubt they would have updated this the same way they

01:11:11   did with the iPad mini.

01:11:12   I don't know why they did it with the iPad mini now to be honest, but like whatever,

01:11:15   they did it now.

01:11:16   I just think that like this is one of those things that people are getting way too mad

01:11:20   about for a product that they're never going to use, and even if they own the product,

01:11:23   a feature they're never going to use.

01:11:25   And so it's just like, I think they made the right decision for this product, which is

01:11:29   to put the camera in a logical place, which is on the landscape side.

01:11:33   And just like with other products, they'll deal with this later on.

01:11:36   I could see a couple of alternatives here. I agree with you the camera on the long side

01:11:42   is correct because most of the time iPads are used horizontally. Maybe they could re

01:11:48   factor the case where like the pencil goes on the short side, right? I don't have an

01:11:53   iPad this size handy, but I think it would fit. But they're not going to retool the case

01:11:58   stuff for the base iPad. There is something kind of funny though that you can you can

01:12:03   You can now use the pencil plugged in with a cable.

01:12:06   It reminds me of when you go into the bank

01:12:07   and like the pins are on those little

01:12:09   like ball chain things so they don't get lost or stolen.

01:12:12   But I tend to agree with you.

01:12:15   I don't think it's like, yes, it's a little awkward

01:12:19   but it's not the end of the world.

01:12:21   - They made an awkward product awkward in a new way.

01:12:24   - Yeah, yeah.

01:12:25   - That's all they did.

01:12:26   It's just new awkward.

01:12:28   - Yeah, what was Alex's tweet?

01:12:30   Like the old way was bad

01:12:31   but thankfully the new way is bad or something.

01:12:33   It was very funny.

01:12:34   It's all just bad, right?

01:12:36   But it's not like, there's no regression here, really.

01:12:39   It's just like weird in a new way.

01:12:41   Yeah, exactly.

01:12:42   I just think it's like something that people are like way too mad about.

01:12:46   Like does, I just think, you know, chill.

01:12:48   For the record, I think it's wrong.

01:12:49   I think like, I get it that it's not a big deal.

01:12:52   I just think it's wrong as a product.

01:12:54   I just think it's wild that they're selling a new iPad in 2022 and they're forcing you

01:12:59   to use an accessory from 2015.

01:13:01   Yeah, it's a bad Apple Pencil compared to the new one too, right?

01:13:06   It's a bad Apple Pencil and the first thing you choose is an accessory from 2015 with

01:13:11   an adapter and a cable if you want to charge.

01:13:16   I just think I understand, like this is not the end of the world, like the world is not

01:13:20   going to end because the new iPad uses the original Apple Pencil.

01:13:24   But if we are judging the iPad as a product, I think it's a bad deal and it's a bad design.

01:13:30   if you're in charge of designing this, figure out a way to use both the camera and the pencil

01:13:38   on the same side.

01:13:39   I just want to say, I 100% agree with you, right? Like, 100%! Like, they should have

01:13:46   found a way to do it. My point is, the fact that I have seen Apple Pencil as a trending

01:13:51   topic on Twitter today suggests that people care way more than they need to about this.

01:13:57   But it's funny. I mean, come on, have you seen the adapter?

01:14:00   But if people just treated it like a fun thing, fine.

01:14:04   But people are so angry about it.

01:14:07   And that I just find to be like too strange.

01:14:10   It's a it's a vibe.

01:14:12   Just wait until they switch the iPhone from lightning to USB-C.

01:14:17   You think it's it's wild out there now.

01:14:20   Just wait a year.

01:14:21   Only if you need a dongle.

01:14:23   It's only a problem if you need a dongle.

01:14:25   You know what I mean?

01:14:25   Yeah, and you can use this Apple Pencil dongle maybe.

01:14:29   You know what?

01:14:30   Yeah.

01:14:31   I mean. Would it work?

01:14:33   I'm trying to think.

01:14:34   It's probably one of the reasons that this dongle exists.

01:14:36   Maybe.

01:14:37   Yeah, this is like a test run.

01:14:39   'Cause I mean- This is preparation dongle.

01:14:40   Because the other factor with this iPad,

01:14:43   and I don't wanna stray into the iPad lineup conversation

01:14:47   yet, we're gonna do that in a second,

01:14:48   but this iPad is significantly more expensive

01:14:51   than it was before.

01:14:53   And- But it's great though.

01:14:55   Well, the ninth gen is still for sale at the original price.

01:14:59   And so that makes sense based on what you just said, though, right?

01:15:03   They just made it more expensive.

01:15:04   So so like they've they've they've changed that a little bit.

01:15:07   So if if you're talking about schools or businesses

01:15:10   just want to buy the cheapest iPad and they need a pencil,

01:15:12   those customers aren't even going to run into this

01:15:15   because they're going to go buy the cheaper one.

01:15:16   Right. It's one hundred twenty dollars cheaper.

01:15:18   So it's it's awkward, but I don't think it's got to go past that

01:15:23   in terms of, you know, tearing our clothes and sitting in sackcloth.

01:15:27   I want to go this iPads awesome, right?

01:15:30   Ten point nine inch screen. Awesome.

01:15:32   Colors actually truly exist.

01:15:35   They're real colors. They're not fake.

01:15:37   They're real colors.

01:15:38   They're actual colors.

01:15:39   5G support if you care about that.

01:15:41   Yeah.

01:15:42   Camera on the landscape side.

01:15:43   Perfect place.

01:15:45   Does it best keyboard folio?

01:15:47   The best one has the best one.

01:15:49   I mean, it's got a function row, which is fine.

01:15:52   Function row, trackpad, kickstand. You can remove the keyboard if you want to.

01:15:57   Yeah.

01:15:58   Which is awesome, right? As a thing. And the back case, I mean, come on Federico.

01:16:04   I know. Look, I know. It's kickstand season baby. I know it's kickstands are back.

01:16:10   Turns out kickstands are good. Who would have thought? Right?

01:16:14   I will say, no, I won't say kickstands are back. Kickstands now exist on the iPad, right?

01:16:19   Like what you did before was not official.

01:16:21   Yeah. But Microsoft's been doing this forever, right?

01:16:26   Like kickstands never went away.

01:16:28   Yes, exactly.

01:16:29   Yeah, but that's why I said on the iPad, you know, like, but here they are.

01:16:33   There's an argument to be made for the fact that using a kickstand

01:16:38   on your lap is probably not as convenient or comfortable as using the magic keyboard.

01:16:46   But still, I just, I cannot believe that we are getting a more flexible and functional,

01:16:55   because it literally comes with an additional keyboard row, that we're getting this kind

01:17:01   of better keyboard on the base model iPad than on the iPad called the iPad Pro.

01:17:09   You know, I do want to say you compared it to the Magic Keyboard, where I think maybe

01:17:12   the better comparison is the smart keyboard folio.

01:17:16   Yeah with no trackpad.

01:17:17   Which is also really uncomfortable, right?

01:17:19   Like on the lap.

01:17:21   It doesn't like dig in but it also like the angle is always bad.

01:17:25   It was weighted poorly.

01:17:26   You could push it over really.

01:17:27   That's to say it just falls over.

01:17:29   Yeah.

01:17:30   With this, I mean I haven't used this but my assumption is that the kickstand is like

01:17:36   you can choose your angle more freely.

01:17:39   Right?

01:17:40   Like it is, I'm assuming it's not just like one.

01:17:42   I don't know. Angle? I don't know if anybody knows the answer to that out of the two of you

01:17:46   but I'm expecting they made it like a kickstand so like you can move it to different angles

01:17:51   and the fact that you can have it so then you can you can prop up the you know you can prop up

01:17:57   that if you want to just watch a video and have no keyboard attached to it. This is a great iPad.

01:18:02   This is a great iPad. Yeah I think so and I'm very jealous of that keyboard. It's a great iPad

01:18:10   But then when you consider all these iPads together, I think it becomes a very strange story.

01:18:16   And I think it shows a general sense of confusion right now in iPad land at Apple,

01:18:28   in both software and hardware. Stephen is very funnily, I should say, using the

01:18:38   "Compare iPad models page" as a spooky nickname on Discord.

01:18:45   And that's funny, but it's actually right.

01:18:47   It is.

01:18:49   It's a page.

01:18:50   It's a very interesting page to go to.

01:18:54   I think the iPad lineup right now,

01:18:56   this is not the first time this is happening.

01:18:58   I think we were having this conversation six or seven

01:19:01   years ago, if I'm not mistaken, where

01:19:02   there were multiple versions of the Mini,

01:19:05   multiple versions of the Air.

01:19:07   It's not the first time we're having this conversation, but it's happening again.

01:19:11   And the situation we're here right now is that you have this middle lineup of

01:19:19   iPads, right?

01:19:21   With the iPad 9th gen and the iPad 10th gen and the iPad Air and the 11 inch iPad

01:19:28   Pro, where they're all kind of similar to each other with a bunch of differences.

01:19:34   Like you have the two extremes, right?

01:19:36   The iPad mini, smallest iPad, very clear proposition.

01:19:41   12.9 inch iPad Pro, the biggest iPad, also a very clear proposition.

01:19:48   And then, to go back to the sandwich metaphor, the thing in the middle is just a whole salad

01:19:56   of iPads.

01:19:58   You have two regular iPads and the iPad Air and the 11 inch iPad Pro where the difference

01:20:05   between them are so small, right?

01:20:10   And what, it's the inconsistency that kills you, right?

01:20:16   It's the fact that some features and some accessories

01:20:21   are shared between these iPads,

01:20:23   are compatible between these iPads,

01:20:25   but some of them are not.

01:20:26   And the decision feels very arbitrary, right?

01:20:30   Like, oh, we have a new keyboard on the iPad

01:20:33   because we moved the smart connector, but it's only on this iPad.

01:20:37   Like, it's like, and you have, we have a new iPad with a flat edge design,

01:20:43   but no, it only works with a first generation Apple Pencil.

01:20:46   Like, is there anyone who doesn't work at the operations team at Apple,

01:20:51   who can make sense of this lineup?

01:20:54   You can try to justify what Apple is doing.

01:20:57   You can try to explain what Apple is doing.

01:20:59   But honestly, look at that image.

01:21:01   Look at that products page.

01:21:02   And please tell me how it is a page that makes sense for a regular person.

01:21:08   The iPad Air, as great as it is, probably shouldn't exist now with the current lineup.

01:21:14   Right?

01:21:15   Yeah, it feels like it's squeezed out.

01:21:17   iPad Mini, iPad, and then the two iPad Pros now should be what's there.

01:21:24   The iPad Air made more sense before the iPad became what it just became, right?

01:21:30   Now, right, what like now the iPad Air I feel like is the most odd one out, right?

01:21:37   Because the iPad Air similar in size to the iPad now, they probably have a very

01:21:43   similar screen, I would expect technology wise.

01:21:46   Well, they actually they're the displays are where some of the biggest differences

01:21:52   are. So if you look at the compare page, OK, the iPad is sRGB, not wide color.

01:21:59   - Oh, okay.

01:22:00   - Is not fully laminated.

01:22:02   It does not have the anti-reflective coating.

01:22:04   - There you go then, well for me.

01:22:06   - If you move to the Air, you pick up lamination,

01:22:10   reflective coating, P3 color gamut.

01:22:12   And then if you go all the way to the Pro,

01:22:14   you get all that stuff plus ProMotion.

01:22:16   So the Pro and the Air display are closer to each other,

01:22:20   minus ProMotion.

01:22:22   The laminated thing would be the thing that would bother me

01:22:24   'cause that's a really nice feature.

01:22:26   I mean, if you look at the rest of the iPad versus the Air,

01:22:29   basically everything else is very similar

01:22:32   in terms of the physicality of the device.

01:22:35   I mean, you have a different chip, but like same size,

01:22:38   it's pretty wild.

01:22:39   - And then it also, you know,

01:22:41   like what keyboards they work with, right?

01:22:43   Where the Air is essentially,

01:22:46   I mean, the Air is just like so incredibly close

01:22:49   to the 11 inch, right?

01:22:52   And like the 11 inch did not take a step forward

01:22:55   in I think some of the ways that is most meaningful.

01:22:59   I find it, I find the iPad Air

01:23:02   to be the ugly luckling at the moment,

01:23:04   which is weird because it is a very good iPad.

01:23:08   But like now when I look at that whole lineup,

01:23:10   I feel like what we should have is too regular, too pro.

01:23:14   - Yeah, the other thing that hurts the Air

01:23:17   is that both it and the iPad iPad

01:23:20   are capped at 256 gigs of storage.

01:23:23   starting at 64, I think is even worse.

01:23:26   - Yeah, so if the cheap one, quote unquote cheap one,

01:23:31   were 64, 256, and the iPad Air were like 256 and 512,

01:23:36   like that helps space them out a little bit better.

01:23:40   It's just, I agree with you,

01:23:42   the Air is the odd one out here.

01:23:44   And I mean, it's like the problem we used to talk about

01:23:49   walking into an Apple store

01:23:50   like what $1100 laptop do you buy?

01:23:53   Like if you walk in an album store now, like what mid-sized iPad do you want?

01:23:58   They're all pretty similar.

01:23:59   Yeah, and there's the price problem.

01:24:02   Like I told you guys today, I was just like wondering.

01:24:05   I took the current, you know, the new 10th gen iPad,

01:24:09   put 256 gigs of storage, Wi-Fi with the keyboard,

01:24:15   and it's nearly a thousand pounds.

01:24:20   too much money. And I realized now if I would have gone for cellular, it would have pushed

01:24:23   it over a thousand pounds. Like, you know, and part of that is like, economic stuff, right? Like,

01:24:29   I know that they're pushing up prices a lot outside of the US, but like, that's too much money for,

01:24:35   and that's also without an Apple pencil, right? Like, it was just the keyboard thing.

01:24:40   And it's just like, if you come in and like, want to get the iPad experience, like what they,

01:24:44   you know, considered to be the new good beginning.

01:24:47   That's too expensive.

01:24:49   That's way too expensive.

01:24:51   Like what? I could just go buy a MacBook Air.

01:24:54   And then you would at least get stage manager.

01:24:56   So there's that.

01:24:58   And also, I still cannot get over the fact that.

01:25:01   They didn't make a new magic keyboard for iPad Pro with function keys.

01:25:07   I'm sorry, but it's just wild to me.

01:25:10   Or even make a version of this new thing, right?

01:25:12   this maker. The very thing that every pro user has been asking for for the past two

01:25:19   years they made it instead for the base model iPad. Like are you even in... like do you

01:25:30   listen to your audience? Like don't you see the thing that people have been asking about?

01:25:34   I don't get it. Sometimes I feel like I don't get this anymore but then I also

01:25:42   look at other tablets and I'm like "uhh"

01:25:46   Just come back to the Mac again, everything's great.

01:25:49   See the thing is, yes, yes but well doesn't MacBook let me rip out the

01:25:58   display? I mean if you try hard enough. It's a one-time thing.

01:26:04   one time only. If you do it really carefully, you might have some stuff like dangling down

01:26:10   but like yeah you can do it. I mean you know I'm being facetious but like what I'm trying

01:26:16   to do with that point that I'm making is like the Mac lineup is really good right now and

01:26:21   every product feels like it has a good spot right? I know. And the lineup I think makes

01:26:28   a ton of sense, and even where it doesn't, the products are still really good, even the

01:26:34   weird ones.

01:26:36   I got this tweet yesterday that I sent to you guys, and that I'm still thinking about

01:26:43   right now.

01:26:45   And the tweet, I don't remember who sent it, I'm sorry, we'll credit you whenever we find

01:26:49   this tweet again.

01:26:51   And this tweet was like, it was a question.

01:26:54   And the question was, is the iPad living its Mac in 2016 moment right now?

01:27:01   And that's like a funny question, but the more, but the more I started thinking about

01:27:06   and the more I think it's kind of true and I cannot stop thinking about like, yeah, it

01:27:12   kind of Patrick, Patrick, thank you, Patrick.

01:27:16   So is the iPad living its 2016 Mac?

01:27:20   And I think it kind of is.

01:27:22   Like in the software, in the hardware, they're making confused decisions that they think

01:27:31   are going to please their most loyal users, while in fact they are not.

01:27:38   It does feel like there is a fundamental disconnect between what the people want and what the

01:27:44   company is making.

01:27:47   And the worst part is that we all love this product.

01:27:51   That's the core of the problem.

01:27:55   Is that there's nothing else like it, but it's like we're not speaking the same language

01:27:59   anymore.

01:28:01   Because it feels like for years, years and years and years, right?

01:28:05   We have said like, the software is just not there, but the hardware is so good.

01:28:11   And now we have a bunch of brand new iPads and it's like, oh no.

01:28:16   The iPad Pro hardware hasn't done anything since 2018.

01:28:23   I mean really think about it.

01:28:25   Right, like the only meaningful difference is the mini LED display in the 12.9.

01:28:30   Right.

01:28:31   But then they didn't put it on the 11.

01:28:34   And they're only digging a deeper hole.

01:28:39   I don't know.

01:28:41   I don't know. And the thing they tried to make sense of it with Stage Manager and the M1

01:28:50   was not really well received. And it was also honestly quite poorly strategized, I think.

01:28:57   I keep thinking, like, make Stage Manager and make it work in one way on older hardware,

01:29:03   and make it work in another way on newer hardware. Like, justify the newer hardware.

01:29:08   But nope, they had to go back and redo it all

01:29:11   and make it work on a bunch of older iPads.

01:29:14   Okay.

01:29:15   Like, yeah, I'm thinking about that tweet from Patrick.

01:29:19   Is this like how Mac users felt six years ago?

01:29:24   And I think it is.

01:29:25   - It ain't that bad yet though, I will say.

01:29:27   We're not at that point yet.

01:29:28   Like this feels not great, but like that was very bad.

01:29:32   Maybe we won't have to get there.

01:29:34   Maybe we will.

01:29:36   - Maybe.

01:29:37   - Don't say that.

01:29:39   - iPad round table, baby.

01:29:40   - iPad round table 2023.

01:29:46   - Just gonna be you Federico, just gonna be you

01:29:49   and six exact years from Apple.

01:29:53   - If you wanna find links to the stuff

01:29:54   we spoke about this week,

01:29:56   head on over to the website relay.fm/connected/420.

01:30:01   While you're there, you can get in touch via email

01:30:04   with feedback or follow up.

01:30:05   You can also join and get connected pro which is a longer ad free version of the show each and every week

01:30:11   You can find us all online Federico is on Twitter as fatigue II VI TI CCI

01:30:17   Keep an eye out for his iPad coverage John's Mac OS Ventura coverage early next week

01:30:23   We'll be talking about both of those things. I'm sure on next week's episode

01:30:26   You can find Myke on Twitter as I am y ke

01:30:30   Myke hosts a bunch of other shows here on relay FM as do I as does Federico and you can find me on Twitter as

01:30:37   ISMH I'd think our sponsors text expander clean my Mac X and hover

01:30:44   Until next week guys say goodbye

01:30:46   How do that you cheerio? Bye y'all