418: Grocery Shopping for Some Fresh New Bugs


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 418.

00:00:12   It's made possible this week by our sponsors, Squarespace, Capital One, and Sofa.

00:00:18   My name is Stephen Hackett, I'm joined by Relay FM co-founder and one-time indie blogger, Myke Hurley.

00:00:26   I was never an indie blogger. I may have had aspirations.

00:00:28   You tried!

00:00:29   Those aspirations. I never actually like tried to make a career

00:00:33   Thank you one time indie blogger Steven Hackett. I'm still an indie blogger

00:00:37   I never stopped and we're both joined by one time indie blogger Federico didi

00:00:44   Hello, it's so good to join the two co-founders of the relay FM podcast network. Yes

00:00:50   It's such a such a such an honor really

00:00:54   We're happy to honor you with our presence. Yes, I feel thanks

00:00:58   I feel honored by you and Michael.

00:01:03   Thank you for honoring me.

00:01:05   We got a big show today.

00:01:07   We're gonna be joined a little bit later on

00:01:09   by everyone's favorite Apple vlogger,

00:01:13   underscore David Smith, talk about the Apple Watch Ultra.

00:01:16   But first we have some follow-up.

00:01:19   I'm gonna do it follow-up slash follow-out.

00:01:21   On upgrade this week, Myke, you and Jason spoke

00:01:24   about Tim Cook's world tour.

00:01:26   That was an incredible segment.

00:01:27   - Thank you. - I should say.

00:01:28   - Yes, so good. - That was a lot of fun.

00:01:30   That was one of those, you guys know this,

00:01:31   it was just one of those things, we put it in a document,

00:01:33   I thought it would take five minutes,

00:01:35   and I think we were doing like 25 minutes, right?

00:01:37   You know that kind of thing where you're like,

00:01:39   this might be a fun aside,

00:01:40   but then you get really carried away,

00:01:41   and we kind of went all CSI on it, it was good.

00:01:44   - We've never gone off the rails on this show,

00:01:48   I don't know what you mean.

00:01:49   - Never, never ever ever.

00:01:51   - Never, but one of those stops

00:01:54   grabbed my attention for a couple of reasons.

00:01:57   One, Myke, you and I have been talking about honorary degrees.

00:02:02   We were joking that like if you got an honorary degree from like the University of Memphis,

00:02:07   but I didn't, that I'd be mad.

00:02:09   But Tim Cook got a honorary degree, a very large honorary degree by a man in a cape, Italy.

00:02:18   So Federico, what is happening here?

00:02:20   I don't think what's happening, like this is not unusual.

00:02:24   Like I think this whole setup, especially with the clothing of the dean of the university,

00:02:31   I think it may look unusual, maybe outside of Italy or Europe.

00:02:37   I think it looks funny to an American audience.

00:02:40   This is all very normal to me, like for an official celebration for what is called a

00:02:47   honoris causa, it's Latin for basically like honorary degree.

00:02:52   This whole setup with the dean being all dressed up with the mantle and the fur and the little

00:02:57   hat, this is all pretty regular to me.

00:03:00   And the honorary degree, I mean, it's given to public figures very often by different

00:03:06   universities in Italy, at least.

00:03:08   Like you often see politicians or celebrities who have done something particularly good

00:03:17   for society at large, like they were philanthropists or whatever. Like that often happens. They

00:03:25   give you a honorary degree. Also, usually it's related to the recipient of the degree

00:03:35   being a benefactor of some kind to the university, right? Like maybe this person opened a whole

00:03:43   new wing for the university or something and it just so happens that a couple of years

00:03:48   later you get a honorary degree. Like it's in this case...

00:03:52   That's exactly what happened here. In a way this is what happened here because

00:03:57   the Federico second, the Federico the second, it's called Federico secondo in Italian, but

00:04:03   this university is the one that participates, I believe, with Apple on the Developer Academy,

00:04:09   which is in Naples, Italy. It was the Developer Academy in Naples, I believe was the first

00:04:14   one that Apple opened, oh gosh, what was it, five, six years ago, maybe?

00:04:19   -Probably, yeah. -And there is a related course, I want to

00:04:23   say, at the Federico Secondo University for being a mobile developer. So yeah, a few years

00:04:31   past, Tim Cook just so happens to get a honorary degree. And of course, it's a big celebration.

00:04:37   was live streamed on the university's YouTube channel.

00:04:41   And there's the whole big fancy clothing and the huge diploma. I mean,

00:04:46   this is all, but I just want to say,

00:04:49   this is all pretty standard for a public figure. Yeah.

00:04:52   I don't know if I shared this with you Federico.

00:04:55   I don't know if I said this publicly,

00:04:57   but Steven knows that it is a life goal of mine, like a dream,

00:05:01   to get an honorary degree because I don't have a degree.

00:05:04   Yeah, me neither. Like I, I always,

00:05:06   I always say this to my friends and it makes for a good icebreaker. You know, when I'm

00:05:11   when I'm like, let's say that that, you know, I'm just talking about myself and people get

00:05:16   curious about me like, hey, are you like someone who doesn't know me like, where did you study?

00:05:20   And like, yeah, actually, I don't have a degree. I started working when I was 19. And I always

00:05:25   crack the joke of like, but my goal is to get an honorary degree at some point in my

00:05:29   life. And it's one of the things that I want. Like, I want to be recognized.

00:05:32   All the glory, none of the work.

00:05:34   Yeah, without none of the work. I just want a guy or a lady, I don't know how this works,

00:05:42   but I just want a person with a whole big fancy clothing going on and the hat and the

00:05:47   fur and the big mantle and I want to be given that.

00:05:51   But I have now decided that my secondary life goal is to get one of these from the University

00:05:56   of Memphis.

00:05:57   Okay, very specific, but I get it.

00:06:00   I think that would be very funny if I got an honorary degree from Stevens University.

00:06:07   But I will take one from any university.

00:06:11   Just putting this out there, if any university wants to give me and Federico honorary degrees,

00:06:18   we will accept them.

00:06:19   Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:06:22   I mean we don't, you know, we're not selective here.

00:06:26   Like anything works.

00:06:27   You know, even the, you know, to have a reference, even the University of American Samoa would

00:06:33   be okay.

00:06:34   Like, whatever.

00:06:35   Oh, oh, reference acknowledged, sir.

00:06:36   Yeah, yeah.

00:06:37   I mean, anything works.

00:06:38   So just give it to us and we'll be happy.

00:06:42   I do want a presentation, though.

00:06:43   Like, I don't just want it to be mailed to me.

00:06:45   Oh, no, it's gotta be a whole event.

00:06:48   And there's gotta be, there's gotta be a buffet, I think, afterwards.

00:06:53   there's got to be food and drinks and at least two members of the press because

00:06:59   if there's only one member of the press it could be kind of awkward like what is

00:07:03   this like an exclusive report no there's gonna be at least two of them so at least

00:07:07   two press people having independent reports. I mean it would be pretty cool though if it was an exclusive article

00:07:13   though right? Well we can have the exclusive interview but the news event needs to be...

00:07:20   Yeah, but the news event needs to be covered on multiple places.

00:07:25   And I will do a commencement address if you need me to.

00:07:29   I will do one.

00:07:31   Right.

00:07:32   Which you could have Dali or something or GPT-3 generate for you.

00:07:39   Yeah.

00:07:40   Because I probably wouldn't be the best commencement speaker because I didn't go to university.

00:07:46   So you know, if I start off with like, congratulations today, in my opinion, potentially what you've

00:07:54   done here is pointless.

00:07:57   I don't know if that's really going to set the stage in the right way.

00:08:04   Congratulations, you've wasted four years of your life.

00:08:06   And a lot of money.

00:08:08   Good luck getting a job, bye!

00:08:10   And then I leave and take my degree.

00:08:12   It's like, but I don't care, I got my degree.

00:08:14   So I don't know if y'all know this, but I have a degree.

00:08:18   - Oh, really?

00:08:19   - In journalism.

00:08:21   - Do you know, I had this,

00:08:22   I thought I had a fake memory, Federico,

00:08:26   that was confirmed to me when I was in Memphis, right?

00:08:29   Now, as we all know, Steven is much older than us, right?

00:08:32   Much, much older than us. - Right, much, much.

00:08:34   - Much older. - Yes.

00:08:35   - But I had a memory of him graduating from college,

00:08:40   and that didn't match up, right?

00:08:44   Like if you think about we've known each other for 10 years,

00:08:46   Steven is 38?

00:08:47   - 36.

00:08:49   - 36, Steven is 36.

00:08:52   Apparently, he's somewhere between 36 and 40, right?

00:08:56   So like if I've known him--

00:08:57   - I think it's flipped, it's 39.

00:08:59   - 63, and if I've known him for 10 years,

00:09:03   how could I have remembered him graduating from university?

00:09:07   But it's true, he did graduate from university

00:09:10   within the last 10 years.

00:09:12   - Yeah, I took a long time to finish.

00:09:13   You've seen the actual proof of him graduating?

00:09:17   Like you've seen the document?

00:09:18   - That I don't remember.

00:09:19   I haven't seen the gown or anything.

00:09:22   - I didn't go to my graduation.

00:09:23   - Okay, does that mean?

00:09:24   - But I did graduate.

00:09:25   - Wait, if you don't go--

00:09:27   - Wait, does that mean you never graduated?

00:09:29   It's like you never, are you sure you graduated?

00:09:32   - Yeah, I just went and so, okay, so here's the thing.

00:09:34   I started college in 2004, so I should have finished 2008,

00:09:38   but I took until 2011 to finish.

00:09:40   And so I just went and picked up my diploma one day,

00:09:44   and it was the most underwhelming ending

00:09:47   to a college career anyone could have,

00:09:49   'cause I went to an office and they said,

00:09:51   "Wait here a minute."

00:09:52   - Oh my God, I remember you telling me this at the time.

00:09:54   - Then they handed me a tube with my diploma

00:09:56   and they said, "Congratulations."

00:09:58   And I said, "Thanks," and then I left.

00:10:00   - I'm having so many major flashbacks right now.

00:10:03   This is, I'm having some sense memories.

00:10:06   - Yeah.

00:10:07   - Incredible.

00:10:08   - Yeah.

00:10:09   Congratulations on your graduation.

00:10:11   What I want is my, my old school, uh, they do like a distinguished

00:10:16   journalism alumni every year.

00:10:18   And I'm the only person that I went to school with working in anything close

00:10:22   to journalism, right?

00:10:23   And definitely with the biggest audience.

00:10:25   So I was like, Hey, I already have the degree.

00:10:29   I just want the honor part now, but I haven't gotten it.

00:10:31   I know we were talking about this again, when we were together.

00:10:36   Federico, I think you'll agree with me.

00:10:38   Stephen should 100% be given this honor, right?

00:10:42   That like, he is a successful journalist.

00:10:47   I am assuming probably one of the most successful

00:10:52   from that graduating year or more, right?

00:10:57   I think he should be given this.

00:10:58   I think the University of Memphis should honor Stephen

00:11:01   as a distinguished graduate.

00:11:02   I think someone should write an email

00:11:05   to the University of Memphis and explain who Stephen is, what he does, what is accomplished

00:11:12   for this online community and the city of Memphis and he should get the recognition

00:11:21   he deserves. I think the University of Memphis should be informed about Stephen Hackett.

00:11:33   I think we're starting a letter writing campaign.

00:11:36   Oh no.

00:11:37   Sarva in the Discord says,

00:11:42   "There's a high score table somewhere

00:11:44   with Stephen's name at the top."

00:11:45   (laughs)

00:11:48   Oh, that's fantastic.

00:11:49   How would you feel about getting that honor in 2023, Stephen?

00:11:53   I'd love it.

00:11:54   I would invite both of y'all.

00:11:55   Would you like it if you get it

00:11:58   because the universe is under duress to give it to you?

00:12:01   No, it don't matter to me.

00:12:03   - Oh, okay, you don't care.

00:12:04   I mean, I agree with this.

00:12:05   - When it's hanging on my wall

00:12:06   and the background of Zoom calls,

00:12:09   no one else knows that they were--

00:12:11   - And also, really, if the reason they give it to you

00:12:13   is because of passionate pressure,

00:12:18   that only proves the point, doesn't it?

00:12:21   - Passionate pressure.

00:12:22   - Right?

00:12:23   That you have such an adoring fan base.

00:12:26   But now, if you don't get it, what does that say?

00:12:31   Now we'll put it out there into the world.

00:12:33   Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool.

00:12:34   - Let's talk about the boxes

00:12:36   that the Apple Watch Ultra come in.

00:12:38   Last year I, last year, last week, one week ago,

00:12:43   yeah, one week ago on the show,

00:12:46   I talked about the box for my Apple Watch Ultra

00:12:48   and how it had mountains on the inside

00:12:50   with the Alpine band.

00:12:51   I said, I believe the different versions

00:12:53   come with different inlays.

00:12:55   That's true, there's a post over on r/applewatch

00:12:59   that has the OceanBand and it has waves and stuff

00:13:02   on the print, printing on the inside of the box.

00:13:04   You can see that.

00:13:05   What is interesting is that if you just buy

00:13:08   one of the bands, the boxes aren't as fancy.

00:13:11   So I bought an OceanBand since the last time we spoke.

00:13:15   They had the white one in stock at my local Apple store.

00:13:18   And it came in a nice box,

00:13:19   but not like this unboxing experience you get

00:13:22   if it's paired with the watch from the beginning.

00:13:25   And I really liked the OceanBand.

00:13:27   I got it in white.

00:13:28   I find it to be very comfortable.

00:13:31   It's really interesting because it's one size fits all

00:13:36   and then you can get like for an extra amount of money,

00:13:39   you get a really long strap, like put around a wetsuit

00:13:41   if you're diving with it.

00:13:43   And look, the most wet this watch is ever gonna get

00:13:46   is maybe in the bathtub.

00:13:47   I'm not going real far underwater with this thing.

00:13:49   So I just got the regular one.

00:13:50   - Do you wear your watch in the bath?

00:13:52   - I mean, depends sometimes, you know, gotta be,

00:13:55   if I slip, you know, I gotta hit the siren

00:13:57   and get married to come get me out.

00:13:59   (laughing)

00:14:00   But what's interesting with the Ocean band

00:14:03   is the retaining clip for like the tail of the band.

00:14:08   There are real names for all these things.

00:14:10   I apologize if you're a watch person.

00:14:12   But they're titanium, so they match the watch.

00:14:15   But you place one wherever you need it,

00:14:18   and it's like spring loaded.

00:14:20   So you, in the box, it's like a separate little oval loop,

00:14:23   and then you open it up and put it where you want it.

00:14:26   And I find it to be really comfortable.

00:14:28   I love the way the white looks with the titanium.

00:14:31   For years, I wore a stainless steel Apple watch

00:14:33   with a white band,

00:14:34   and this feels like going back to my roots with that.

00:14:37   So I really liked the ocean band.

00:14:40   It's kind of weird looking,

00:14:42   but in white, I think it works.

00:14:44   In yellow, it looks like noodles.

00:14:46   So the yellow one's not for me, but I like the white.

00:14:49   - Have we done about these Apple watch?

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00:16:36   support for the show. Our thanks to Squarespace for their support of

00:16:40   connected and relay FM. So Federico, last week we had one of the most epic

00:16:45   episodes of Connected ever were sadly your your family's beach house the the

00:16:52   yard was broken into they stole your axe and some grilling utensils any updates

00:16:58   there we've gotten tweets and emails from people all week wondering you know

00:17:01   what's been going on so can you give us an update or is it all like secret with

00:17:06   the FBI or something no I can not the FBI the Carabinieri as Myke said last

00:17:12   week I can confirm, the grilling utensils or as I described them the barbecue stuff has indeed been

00:17:20   stolen. Why did you need to clarify that? Well just you know to make sure that people have the right

00:17:27   context. Right. Has been stolen along with a we had this like this little case with a bunch of tools

00:17:37   like an electric screwdriver and I believe there was a hammer inside like just basic tools for

00:17:46   fixing stuff that was also stolen. But I do have an update in that the axe is back so you can you

00:17:58   can clearly tell from the video that the guy grabs the little axe that we keep for cutting pieces of

00:18:06   wood, you can see that it grabs it and it passes it to the other guy standing

00:18:12   outside the gate. However, the following morning my mom went to the house, went to

00:18:18   the house, she checked that they did not break into the apartment itself.

00:18:23   Thankfully they did not, so it was all outside. She checked and then she went to

00:18:28   the police station to file an official report and attach the videos that we

00:18:34   collect that we got from our security camera, attach them as an official

00:18:38   as official evidence for the report. And when she went there she sends me these

00:18:43   photos like "the axe is here" so they put that one thing back and I'm very happy

00:18:51   about that because I was very I really like that instrument you know it's it's

00:18:56   very nicely done. It makes sense why they would put the axe back. Really? Does it

00:19:01   make sense I think so like these guys they didn't seem like they were very

00:19:05   good criminals no maybe that they have fear that they might get caught it is a

00:19:12   it's not good to be caught having stolen like a weapon essentially oh yeah I

00:19:18   didn't think about that that is a because this was the thing that worried

00:19:21   me at the time that I didn't really want to mention but now I will mention like I

00:19:25   was worried that some kind of crime would be committed with the axe but mmm

00:19:29   It seems like "no" is the answer to that.

00:19:32   So I'm pleased that the axe is back.

00:19:34   And also, that just sounds like an incredible name for an album.

00:19:38   Yeah, I know.

00:19:39   Like a metal album?

00:19:41   Yeah, you can visualize the cover even.

00:19:44   It's so good.

00:19:45   I also want to confirm that I've watched the videos over and over.

00:19:49   I've sent the videos to my mom, to the police of course,

00:19:52   as well as to my friends who spent multiple weeks with me

00:19:56   in this house over multiple summers through the years.

00:19:59   And they know the neighbors,

00:20:01   they know the people who live on that street.

00:20:03   It's a very small local street.

00:20:06   It's the guy outside the gate is 100% the guy we think,

00:20:12   I originally thought it was.

00:20:14   And everybody's like, yep, that's his voice.

00:20:17   And my mom told the police about this.

00:20:20   And of course the police told her, look,

00:20:22   we cannot include this part in the report because then you got to lawyer up and prove

00:20:29   what you're saying essentially. So basically the story is I know who did it and there's

00:20:36   nothing I can do about it effectively, you know, except being extremely mindful of my

00:20:43   surroundings at this point, I guess. But yeah, it's one of those situations where like, what

00:20:51   are you gonna do? Right? The police say they're gonna investigate this, but honestly, are

00:20:56   they really going through the effort of finding two guys who stole like a bunch of tools and

00:21:04   barbecue stuff? No, they're not. They got much bigger problems to deal with. And as

00:21:10   soon as I realized what they actually took, it's more about the feeling of being violated

00:21:17   in a way, and seeing a guy through a security camera go through your stuff. They took essentially

00:21:24   nothing, right? But it's more about the fact of seeing a rando just jump over the gate

00:21:31   and go through your stuff and open your things and touch your things and take some of them.

00:21:38   really just gross, you know? And now that the camera is always on, of course, we're

00:21:47   keeping it there with the Apple TV serving as the home hub, and I

00:21:53   kind of had this thought of like, you know, going there and pretending to be

00:22:02   blissfully ignorant about all this, and go to this person and be like "Oh my

00:22:08   God, can you believe it that someone broke into my house and pretending that they know nothing

00:22:15   about the fact that I know, but I don't think I'm gonna do that.

00:22:20   And little do they know that those tools are actually covered in radioactive waste.

00:22:24   I mean, I kind of thought about doing that and be like, please let me know if you see anything

00:22:32   suspicious around here. Would you please, would you be, would you be so kind to let me know? But

00:22:37   But I'm not gonna do that.

00:22:39   Because like, you know, these people, they're gonna, you know.

00:22:41   - They're clearly in a different situation to you, right?

00:22:44   Like in that they would do this.

00:22:46   So it's kind of like, I'm just like, I would forget.

00:22:49   - I don't wanna be in the situation where you do this,

00:22:52   you confront a guy doing this,

00:22:53   and they do the thing that they do in the movies

00:22:56   where they raise their shirt just a little

00:22:58   and they show you a gun, you know?

00:23:00   - Okay.

00:23:01   - Just.

00:23:02   - Or an ax, or like a power tool of some kind.

00:23:05   - You know, I don't wanna be in that situation.

00:23:07   So I'm not, essentially I'm not gonna do anything.

00:23:10   But that was a pretty big scare.

00:23:12   And I continue to believe that it's just gross

00:23:15   to see someone else go through your stuff.

00:23:17   - I know what can make you feel better.

00:23:19   USB branding.

00:23:20   - Yes, give me some of that sweet, sweet USB branding.

00:23:24   - If I know one thing about you is that you love

00:23:27   the branding from the USB consortium.

00:23:29   - I love me some good USB changes.

00:23:33   - And I am here to tell you that contrary

00:23:36   to every other previous attempt at branding USB specs,

00:23:41   they've actually done a good job Federico.

00:23:45   - Nah, get out of here.

00:23:46   - Super speed is gone.

00:23:48   No more super speed, no more USB super speed.

00:23:51   - Super gun, it's super gun, okay.

00:23:53   - Two by two by six by four USB super speed.

00:23:57   - Okay.

00:23:58   - There is now like two ways of categorizing USB.

00:24:02   So it's all like USB certified

00:24:05   and then there's a series of numbers

00:24:08   that actually equate to things that are helpful.

00:24:10   So for example, if you're just delivering data,

00:24:13   say over a connector or a cable,

00:24:16   it's USB 40 gigabits per second, 20, 10, five,

00:24:21   and that's the categorization.

00:24:22   - Wait, what?

00:24:23   - And they have specific logos for packaging of cables,

00:24:27   for ports and devices.

00:24:30   So you can, this is what they're suggesting

00:24:31   people print on them, but effectively saying,

00:24:34   these are the speeds of these and then when power is in the mix they have another one so it would be

00:24:40   like say for example USB 40 gigabits per second 60 watt or 240 watt so it actually feels like they

00:24:48   have tidied up the branding and made it much more logical than it was before. Who would have guessed

00:24:55   that actually telling people the specs of the cable was gonna be nicer than associating a random

00:25:04   adjective or other word with it. Who knew that it was gonna be so easy?

00:25:12   Rest in peace SuperSpeed USB 5 gigabits per second. We hardly knew you.

00:25:17   I'm gonna miss it. I'm gonna miss the 2x2 though. That was cool.

00:25:22   Yeah, that will miss forever. And I think it's been a busy time over there in the USB

00:25:28   consortium because the European Union have passed the USBC law.

00:25:33   "By the end of 2024, all mobile phones, tablets and cameras sold in the EU will have to be

00:25:41   equipped with a USB Type-C charging port. From Spring 2026, this obligation will extend to

00:25:47   laptops. The new law adopted by Plenary on Tuesday with 602 votes in favour, 13 against

00:25:57   than eight abstentions, I assume the abstentions these people didn't understand what they were

00:26:01   voting on, is part of a broader EU effort to reduce e-waste and to empower consumers to make

00:26:07   more sustainable choices. Exemptions will apply for devices that are too small to offer a USB-C

00:26:14   port such as smartwatches, health trackers and some sports equipment. Like heart rate monitors.

00:26:21   Yeah, like the one you steal, Myke.

00:26:23   No, no, no, no. Now look.

00:26:24   I have...

00:26:26   I have video footage of thieves.

00:26:27   Yeah.

00:26:28   Right? There's no video footage of me stealing anything.

00:26:31   I'm sure at the time you looked kind of like that.

00:26:34   You know, jumping over my bed.

00:26:35   Jumping over things?

00:26:36   To grab my heartbreak monitor.

00:26:39   I have a potentially controversial opinion about this stuff.

00:26:43   I don't think it's going to be controversial in this show, but carry on.

00:26:47   I've seen a lot of people on Twitter this week say,

00:26:51   I'm happy that we're gonna get USB-C on the iPhone,

00:26:55   but no, it shouldn't be the government or the EU to do this.

00:27:00   I'm kind of happy that it was.

00:27:02   - Me too.

00:27:04   (laughing)

00:27:05   - Yes, yes. - I think this is great.

00:27:06   Yes, I love it.

00:27:07   Go for it. - Yes, because some-

00:27:08   - I want someone to force these companies to do it.

00:27:11   - Yes, because otherwise they're never gonna do it.

00:27:14   Otherwise they just need a little slap on the hand

00:27:16   and be like, no, no, not you do this now because otherwise we try to tell you nicely. We try

00:27:24   to suggest you that you should do this and you didn't. Now you're just going to have

00:27:29   to do it because I mean, look again, whatever. This is the show for these kinds of opinions.

00:27:36   These companies, they do whatever they want. They come into Europe and they pay their taxes

00:27:40   in Ireland of all places. Like they already do whatever they want with the money that

00:27:44   they take from us. At the very least you gotta use a single damn cable instead of just all

00:27:52   the stuff you've been using over the years. Like at the very least you should be doing

00:27:56   this after you do whatever you please with your money over here. Now you just listen

00:28:01   to us and you use that cable. I think it's the right call. Yeah. I think it's great.

00:28:08   I don't really have a strong feeling about it, but I will say I think what the other

00:28:12   side is worried about is that yeah, it's great now. But does what happens if something after

00:28:19   USB C? And is this all going to slow down innovation further down the road? Like I said,

00:28:25   I don't really have feelings on either way. I want my iPhone to have USB C. And that's

00:28:30   if that's what this means, then that's great. But I can see why this sort of regulation

00:28:36   is good. But I can also see how it could be limiting in the future. But like y'all said,

00:28:41   companies haven't done it yet either I mean how many things are still running

00:28:44   around with micro USB like it's everywhere and also I don't want

00:28:49   lightning cables anymore I don't want them I don't want them I want to be able

00:28:54   to use USB C cables with my iPhone yeah I just that's what I want I don't want I

00:29:00   have to keep like remembering to pack that other cable yeah I'm done with it

00:29:05   now if we're gonna have a port on the thing put a USB C port on the thing

00:29:08   everything else in my life uses USB-C.

00:29:13   My Nintendo does, my Steam Deck does,

00:29:15   my iPad does, my MacBook does.

00:29:19   I mean, what else do I have over here?

00:29:22   I used like a remote a few days ago

00:29:26   that had a USB-C charging,

00:29:27   but like everything does except iPhone, AirPods,

00:29:32   and the Apple TV remote.

00:29:33   Like, stop, stop, stop.

00:29:37   And so the government had to force you, so be it.

00:29:40   Couldn't listen before.

00:29:43   - And Lightning was a great improvement over the 30-pin,

00:29:46   but it's been 10 years.

00:29:47   - And it was better than mini and micro USB, right?

00:29:50   Like at the time. - For sure.

00:29:51   - For sure.

00:29:52   - Yeah, this isn't about Lightning being a bad connector

00:29:55   because I think what made Lightning good,

00:29:57   all of those things are also present in USB-C, right?

00:30:00   It's small, it's reversible, it's pretty robust,

00:30:04   but the rest of the world,

00:30:05   including to your point Federico,

00:30:08   a lot of Apple's own ecosystem has moved to USB-C

00:30:13   and I don't know why the phone hasn't.

00:30:15   Is it the blowback that they're surely going to get

00:30:18   because everyone has lightning stuff everywhere?

00:30:21   - I mean, this is the best possible way

00:30:23   for them to have to do this if they're gonna do it

00:30:24   because now they can be like--

00:30:25   - Move to something that you're already using elsewhere,

00:30:28   right, that's the difference.

00:30:30   - No, 'cause they can say, hey, look, we had to do this,

00:30:33   we were forced to do this, you know?

00:30:36   - Yeah, blame Europe.

00:30:37   Some people in Discord were wondering like,

00:30:39   USB-C on cameras, and so I've experienced this recently

00:30:42   with my Sony camera that I got maybe six months ago,

00:30:47   has USB-C on it, and it means that you can transfer stuff

00:30:52   really easily with just like a USB-C cable,

00:30:54   and you could do it on older cameras with like,

00:30:56   again, micro USB or mini USB or something.

00:30:59   But again, it's just nice to have everything the same.

00:31:01   But what really excites me about it on the phone

00:31:04   in particular is something that we talked about,

00:31:06   I guess in the last "Rickeys" episode,

00:31:08   was file transfer speeds off the iPhone

00:31:11   are miserable over Lightning,

00:31:13   'cause Lightning uses USB 2.0.

00:31:15   And you're shooting ProRes video,

00:31:18   you're taking raw photos, you know,

00:31:20   giant images, giant media files,

00:31:22   and there's no great way to get that stuff off the phone.

00:31:26   Right, I know our buddy Austin Evans has talked about this,

00:31:29   where he shoots a lot on iPhones.

00:31:31   is like you're air dropping it

00:31:32   or you're waiting forever in image capture,

00:31:34   like God forbid you're using iCloud photo

00:31:36   and in that sort of situation,

00:31:38   you're waiting on hundreds of gigabytes

00:31:39   to sync to iCloud and back.

00:31:41   It's such a bottleneck to what the iPhone could be

00:31:46   in terms of a creative tool.

00:31:47   And if they put USB-C super speed,

00:31:50   40 gigabits or something in there,

00:31:52   it could be really nice.

00:31:54   And it turns the phone even more into a creative tool.

00:31:58   And that's another really exciting part about this for me,

00:32:01   that they could really kind of unlock the iPhone

00:32:05   as a true powerhouse in terms of media management.

00:32:10   'Cause right now it's just a giant pain in the rear.

00:32:12   - I just want a back one, this cable, that's all.

00:32:15   - Mm-hmm.

00:32:16   Federico, there's a new beta of iPad OS 16.1.

00:32:21   Is stage manager fixed?

00:32:25   - This is a trick question.

00:32:26   No. It's getting better in the sense that in this latest beta it doesn't crash every few minutes for me anymore.

00:32:38   So that's good, right? It's not crashing.

00:32:42   You just paste it in Discord, an image that is very emblematic of the current state of things with Stage Manager.

00:32:50   because there continue to be all sorts of UI, layout, and keyboard issues with

00:33:00   Stage Manager. Today was the first day I was able to get regular work done with

00:33:08   Stage Manager. Now, you hear this sentence and you may react, "Oh, great! Now, Tichi

00:33:13   loves Stage Manager." The problem is that there's a bunch of asterisks that go

00:33:18   with that statement. I was able to work for a solid hour, stage manager, no crashes.

00:33:28   But boy was it challenging. First, I had to disable a bunch of settings

00:33:36   to make this possible. And I go in order. First of all, I disabled the strip of

00:33:44   recent apps on the left, because I continue to believe it takes up way too

00:33:50   much space that I can otherwise use for app windows, and you can always invoke it

00:33:56   if you want by swiping over the edge of the screen, so I think it's fine if I

00:34:00   hide it by default. Second, I hid the dock, and that's more related to a bug that

00:34:08   I'm still experiencing in Stage Manager. Ideally, I would like to see the dock all the time

00:34:15   at the bottom of the iPad. The problem is that whenever I drop an icon from Spotlight or the dock

00:34:27   or from the home screen or whatever, like whenever I use drag and drop to bring an icon into my workspace,

00:34:37   the app is automatically sized to cover the dock, to go over it, and therefore the dock gets hidden.

00:34:44   Yeah, why does it do that?

00:34:46   I don't know. The more I resize these windows, to be like, "No, no, just a inch above the dock, please."

00:34:54   It's like, "Oh, I want to be in stage manager mode." "Oh, no, no, you want full screen apps, right?"

00:34:58   "No, that's the thing I'm not doing!" It's very strange.

00:35:02   everything, the more I resize these apps and the more whenever I use drag and drop, they decide,

00:35:08   no, I just want to be a little taller. And so I decided, you know, I'm tired of this dance,

00:35:15   I'm just gonna hide the dock by default. And so, okay, I'm using effectively Stage Manager on an

00:35:21   empty canvas, right? Which is actually quite nice, don't get me wrong. I mean, I still don't

00:35:27   understand why the wallpaper gets blurred that much, but it's nice. I don't have any distractions.

00:35:35   I can work with this. There were more settings that I had to disable to make this workable right

00:35:42   now in this current version. I noticed last night that Stage Manager was not crashing anymore. Great.

00:35:50   the issue that we talked about last week, the issue of clicking windows and seeing no response,

00:35:58   that was also fixed. But I noticed an offspring of this bug, a new version of it, which was whenever

00:36:09   I opened a new window from the same app, so for example in Mail, I compose a new message that

00:36:18   opens a new window. In Notes, I open a note in a standalone window. That's another Notes window.

00:36:25   In Spring, the Twitter client, whenever I reply to a tweet, that opens a Compose window. Whenever

00:36:32   the same app opens a new window, the new window does not accept keyboard input.

00:36:37   Just, I couldn't type, I couldn't use keyboard shortcuts, couldn't do anything. And get this.

00:36:45   If I close the window, the secondary one, the primary one does what Steven pasted in

00:36:55   Discord, the thick window thing. Like, it glows larger and then it crashes. But it gets better.

00:37:07   It's amazing. What a bug.

00:37:09   I discovered today, and that's the reason why I was finally able to work with Stage Manager for an hour,

00:37:16   that all of this is gone if in Settings > General > Keyboard you disable two options,

00:37:27   Predictive and Shortcuts.

00:37:30   If you disable this, you don't have any keyboard issues anymore

00:37:35   with Stage Manager in iPadOS 16.1 beta,

00:37:39   whatever the number is.

00:37:40   - 17.

00:37:41   - 10, I believe it's 10.

00:37:43   - Why, oh, why?

00:37:44   - I don't know.

00:37:46   I've had issues with this.

00:37:47   - Is it something to do with the QuickType bar?

00:37:49   - Yes, it looks like that.

00:37:51   Looks like, whatever it is,

00:37:54   if you disable predictive and shortcuts,

00:37:57   the keyboard doesn't get "stuck"

00:37:59   for lack of a better term anymore.

00:38:01   So I was able to finally get some real work done

00:38:05   stage manager. I was on a Zoom call, I wrote a post for Mac Stories Weekly, I did some email,

00:38:10   you know, what my work is supposed to be. And it was... I'll tell you, it's nice when it works.

00:38:17   I still don't buy the overlapping windows thing, but using four things at the same time?

00:38:25   Nice. The problem is that, one, all those workarounds to make this possible,

00:38:33   they shouldn't be necessary, right? And second, there continue to be two main design-related

00:38:41   problems, in my opinion, with Stage Manager. Like, I'm not talking about performance, I'm talking

00:38:46   about actual decisions that were made by Apple. The first one, I want to be able to click an icon

00:38:51   in Spotlight or in the Dock. Just click it once and add it to my current workspace. On macOS,

00:39:00   This is possible. If you shift-click an app, instead of creating a workspace, it adds it to the current one.

00:39:07   Right now, the only way to do this is with drag and drop.

00:39:11   Which, like, are we back in the iOS 11 days when drag and drop was the only way?

00:39:18   Why can you not do what you did for the same feature on macOS?

00:39:25   let me shift-click a search result or an icon in the dock to add whatever I selected to my current

00:39:33   workspace. And the second problem, Stage Manager is fixated on this idea of creating new workspaces

00:39:42   for you all the time. Now, I don't know if this... actually, I don't know if this is a decision or a

00:39:48   bug, I can just tell you what happens. And what happens is, sometimes you command-tab to an app

00:39:56   that you know has windows open, like a bunch of windows open, and instead of taking you to the

00:40:03   last used window, it creates a new one. It creates an empty workspace with a new window, even though

00:40:09   you know that you have an existing window for that app. Other times, just today, and I posted

00:40:17   to the video on Twitter. I was in a workspace, a spring window with my Twitter client, Safari

00:40:24   next to it. I click a link in spring, and instead of opening a new tab in the Safari

00:40:32   window right next to it, it creates a new workspace with a new Safari window for that

00:40:39   link. And I don't understand why. If you do this with Split View, it doesn't do that.

00:40:46   The best part is, these are the best bugs,

00:40:50   because it only does it sometimes.

00:40:53   Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

00:40:57   I feel like I'm losing my mind over here.

00:40:59   Document, like each week I come to you guys

00:41:03   and to connect to the connected listeners,

00:41:05   to the passionate ones.

00:41:07   It feels like I just went grocery shopping

00:41:10   for some fresh new bugs, and here you are.

00:41:13   Each week I deliver to you the latest bugs

00:41:16   about stage manager. Like I'm tired of doing this. I don't, I don't want to do this anymore.

00:41:23   I just want, I just want to work, man. I just want to get my work done. And instead each

00:41:28   week I'm like the bearer of bad news. Here I come with the fresh bugs. Here you go. Enjoy.

00:41:34   Now this week, unconnected, opening links in Safari. And what was the other one? The

00:41:40   thick window and the keyboard stuff like enough just please I just I don't want

00:41:47   to do this anymore we'll check back in next week yeah for some more fresh new

00:41:51   bugs for you real quick I just wanted to thank everybody we closed down our annual

00:41:57   st. Jude fundraiser on Monday just a couple of days ago and the final amount

00:42:02   totaled seven hundred and six thousand three hundred and ninety seven dollars

00:42:06   and ten cents, which is an all-time record for our campaign. Absolutely amazing. The

00:42:11   last few days people really showed up, and just thank you. It's a real honor to work

00:42:18   on this every year, and to see growth year over year in what is a pretty rough economy

00:42:24   for a lot of people was really exciting, and just a lot of fun and very humbling, so thank

00:42:30   you all. If you gave and you have donation rewards coming to you, emails will start coming

00:42:36   out relatively soon, so just keep an eye on your inbox. We are working on getting all

00:42:40   that put together, and you should be hearing more about that very soon.

00:42:44   Federico, can you say the number in Italian, please?

00:42:47   No, let me look. Where is the number?

00:42:50   It's in a document.

00:42:51   Okay. Yeah, I can. It's going to be a lot of words, I can tell you.

00:42:56   That's what I wanted.

00:42:58   I'm not used to reading numbers in Italian.

00:43:07   So who knows what you just said, you know?

00:43:09   Right now I'm at the point where, and Silvia makes fun of me constantly now, like she looks

00:43:16   at stuff that I write in Italian and she's like, what did you just write?

00:43:19   What is that?

00:43:20   That's not Italian.

00:43:21   Like, but this has become like, this problem has gotten worse over the years, much, much

00:43:26   worse and I've now reached the point where sometimes I say something in

00:43:30   Italian and I'm like, "Why, that sounds strange. Did I say it right?"

00:43:34   I'm in a very odd predicament with this stuff lately.

00:43:37   You're a fake Italian boy.

00:43:39   This episode of Connected is made possible by Capital One.

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00:44:58   Capital One, what's in your wallet?

00:45:00   - You got a choice now, really.

00:45:03   We can talk about AirPods Pro 2

00:45:06   or we can talk about Spark.

00:45:09   - I say we flip a coin.

00:45:11   - Okay.

00:45:11   Oh, someone has to do that though, right?

00:45:13   Yeah, like-- - Yeah.

00:45:14   - Yeah, I say you flip the coin.

00:45:15   - Okay.

00:45:16   We'll say heads for AirPods

00:45:18   'cause they go in your head.

00:45:20   - Yeah, exactly.

00:45:21   - Oh, that's good.

00:45:22   - And then?

00:45:23   - Tails.

00:45:24   - Okay, tails.

00:45:25   - Of course, yeah.

00:45:26   - So we're gonna talk about AirPods Pro 2.

00:45:29   - Wait, no, it was tails, right?

00:45:31   So we're talking about Spark.

00:45:33   - Oh yeah, we're gonna talk about Spark, all right.

00:45:35   Okay.

00:45:36   Now, okay.

00:45:38   This is gonna be a certain kind of energy, I think,

00:45:42   coming to this conversation.

00:45:44   I feel like really I'm maybe the only of us

00:45:47   that's gonna feel so passionately about this?

00:45:50   - Yeah, I can tell you that I'm still on the old version.

00:45:52   So all the passion is coming from you.

00:45:55   - Yeah. - Yeah, okay.

00:45:57   - I wanna preface this by saying

00:45:59   that I am a long-term Spark user, this email app,

00:46:03   and I am a long-term paying team member of Spark.

00:46:08   So you'll see a lot of people,

00:46:10   a lot of the angst around the application at the moment,

00:46:15   Spark is an email app that just received an update.

00:46:17   It's like Spark 3 or whatever they're calling it.

00:46:20   A lot of angst is around that they've moved to having a subscription model

00:46:26   for everyone, but there is a free version still.

00:46:30   And the free version, people are frustrated by the fact that

00:46:33   it is adding a cent with Spark in the footer or whatever.

00:46:38   Now, also all this like that is what is frustrating people.

00:46:43   I don't care about any of that because I already pay.

00:46:46   Yeah, let me ask you this just real quickly.

00:46:48   I use mail.app, but how do y'all feel about leaving the sit with iPhone?

00:46:52   Oh, I would never know. Why? Why would I do that?

00:46:54   No, no.

00:46:55   See, I leave it because I feel like it's a hedge against egregious typos and emails like, oh, they send it from their phone.

00:47:03   No, just read your email again and use a real signature like a grown up man.

00:47:10   What is what is your signature? What is your email signature?

00:47:12   In my personal and my like 512 email, it's just my name and then my email address under it.

00:47:18   But my relay one, because sometimes it's like official business, I have Stephen Hackett,

00:47:23   co-founder relay FM and then my email address. So where does it say something of iPhone?

00:47:28   Well, on the iPhone, so I was looking on the Mac on the iPhone. I think it just says my name and

00:47:33   same with iPhone. Why do people put their email addresses in the signature? Like I already know

00:47:37   your email address. You sent me an email. So I do it on the Mac as a check that I'm

00:47:42   sending from the right email account because the little drop-down menu is

00:47:45   like easy to overlook. That makes sense. All right so I am a Spark customer, a

00:47:51   longtime Spark customer. They've done two things. One is a brand new Mac app, right?

00:47:56   And the brand new Mac app is like a whole thing and I'm using it because I

00:48:01   kind of want to get to, I want to give it its opportunity to show me what their point of view

00:48:09   is now. I'll get to whoever I think it makes sense to even have one in a minute but they believe they

00:48:16   have a way that I should be doing my email so I'm going to see what that's about and I'm putting it

00:48:23   through its paces and have been for the last couple of days right? But the thing that I don't understand

00:48:28   is they have a Mac app which is this whole new design and has all these new features

00:48:33   but the iOS app the visuals have not changed at all at all it just still looks like the old one

00:48:39   but they have a new smart mailbox kind of filtering system like the way they show you the email

00:48:45   but like the Mac app has this whole big new design they still offer the old Mac app I'm not really

00:48:51   sure why but they still do probably because they knew that people would be mad I don't understand

00:48:55   No one was pushing them to do this.

00:48:57   I don't know why they've only done it by half.

00:48:59   Right? This is what I don't understand.

00:49:01   Now, maybe people say, "Oh, they need a new business model."

00:49:04   They can have a new business model. They did not need to

00:49:07   do everything that they have done to have a new business model also.

00:49:11   They could just as easily give a few new features,

00:49:14   say we're a subscription app now, and move on with their lives.

00:49:17   But instead, the team at Spark, which is owned by Redo,

00:49:21   have decided that instead of just updating their email app with new features, they have

00:49:28   decided that there is now a new way of doing email and they are giving that to their existing

00:49:34   customer base. The most egregious of which is there is no longer an archive button. It

00:49:40   is now called "done" and it's a tick. Right? Now just fundamentally this frustrates me.

00:49:46   Do you want to know why? Because when you press "done" on an email, where does it go?

00:49:50   to the archive, which they still call archive.

00:49:53   - It doesn't go into done folder.

00:49:55   - No, it's like they didn't even complete the idea to it.

00:50:00   It's just half baked, right?

00:50:02   Like you, it's like, oh, we have this whole new way

00:50:04   of doing email and we want you to think differently

00:50:06   about email, so now when you're done with an email,

00:50:08   you just press done.

00:50:10   It's like, one, I don't like that, but two, okay,

00:50:12   let me see what you've got.

00:50:13   But then it just goes to the archive.

00:50:16   So it's still archiving.

00:50:18   You didn't change it in any real way?

00:50:20   So, so, so, okay.

00:50:23   Is it just like the same button but with a different name?

00:50:28   Like it still does what it's supposed to do, right?

00:50:31   Well it depends, right?

00:50:32   So it is the same, it's a different button with a different name, so it's a tick and

00:50:39   it says done.

00:50:40   I mean as long as it goes into the archive, like as long as it archives, you know.

00:50:46   However it doesn't always.

00:50:47   Oh no.

00:50:48   Oh no.

00:50:49   So IMA, they are responsible, but I have been in pay for SaneBox, right?

00:50:54   And so I have email that goes to the SaneLater and the SaneNews folder.

00:50:59   Yes, same here.

00:51:01   So they go there.

00:51:02   Now then when I go to those folders, I can look at those emails and I used to be able

00:51:07   to archive them, right?

00:51:08   Oh no.

00:51:09   By swiping.

00:51:10   So I use the swiping a lot, right?

00:51:12   They have changed their swipe to no longer be like archive or just done.

00:51:18   It's now done/not done.

00:51:20   I don't know why that's a thing.

00:51:22   So you swipe on an email and you can mark it as done or you mark it as not done.

00:51:27   So I'm assuming that their thing is like that you would swipe it if it's in the archive

00:51:31   and it would go back to the inbox.

00:51:33   But if you swipe an email that is in a folder as done, even if it's unread, it puts it in

00:51:39   the inbox now.

00:51:40   No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

00:51:41   - Oh no, no, no, no.

00:51:43   - Why, why would you do this?

00:51:45   Now I'm sure this is a bug, but like why?

00:51:49   And they've done this to the iPhone, right?

00:51:51   So the reason I'm using all of their features

00:51:54   as they have presented them to me now

00:51:56   is because they have a completely rendered

00:51:58   same box unusable.

00:52:00   So I have to have disabled same box,

00:52:02   which I've done at the moment.

00:52:03   And I'm like, okay, Spark, show me what you've got

00:52:06   when it comes to filtering my emails, right?

00:52:08   Into like newsletters and notifications.

00:52:11   They also do that.

00:52:12   So I'm like, well, I might as well try this now

00:52:14   because you have completely destroyed

00:52:15   my email filtering system.

00:52:17   Because I can't get rid of the email easily

00:52:22   without first moving it to the inbox

00:52:24   before then moving it to the archive,

00:52:26   which still exists as archive.

00:52:28   Right, so that's one part that I have.

00:52:32   The Mac app is like clearly their grand vision

00:52:36   and they're able to do this 'cause it's web technology.

00:52:39   So they're pushing it further.

00:52:41   They've also launched on Windows.

00:52:43   I will say, by and large, I don't care about that.

00:52:46   What it has actually done is made keyboard shortcuts

00:52:48   way better.

00:52:49   They now have a bunch of keyboard shortcuts

00:52:50   similar to Gmail.

00:52:52   So if I'm on an email and just press the R key,

00:52:54   I can start a reply.

00:52:55   That's cool.

00:52:56   Right, so because they've moved to some form of web

00:53:00   technologies, you can benefit from things like that, right?

00:53:03   But the Mac app-- now, I'm actually taking a diversion.

00:53:06   The Mac app has no permanent sidebar anymore.

00:53:09   Oh, no way, what?

00:53:10   And there's nothing you can do.

00:53:12   You can you can tap the sidebar and it overlaps over the windows or not.

00:53:16   It has no preview pane either.

00:53:19   What?

00:53:20   So you click an email, it opens the email, you do your thing

00:53:23   and you press back and you go back to the inbox.

00:53:25   There is no column views of any kind in the app.

00:53:29   Well...

00:53:30   This is in the Mac version.

00:53:32   Well, I mean, it's a lot like, hey, it's a lot like Gmail.

00:53:35   It reminds me of Superhuman.

00:53:36   Yeah, it's like all of these things.

00:53:38   I don't know why they are that way.

00:53:40   I don't know why they choose to be that way.

00:53:43   What I will say ultimately, like you say, "Oh, this reminds me of this," right?

00:53:47   Basically every single feature that Spark have implemented into their email app has

00:53:51   already been done somewhere else, including down to iconography.

00:53:56   So I'll come back to what I was going to talk about in a minute, but one thing they have

00:53:59   now is an email screening feature that they've called Gatekeeper, and email pops up and you

00:54:05   can either accept it or block the sender.

00:54:08   I actually do want this feature, that's fine, but like they've done a thumbs up and a thumbs

00:54:13   down, it looks just like hey, right, like it just 100% just looks like what he did.

00:54:17   And like, but look, email apps are built upon the shoulders of each other and they always

00:54:22   have been, right, like it's just one of those things where over time all of the apps have

00:54:27   borrowed features from each other, right, all going back to the greatest email app of

00:54:31   all time, Mailbox.

00:54:32   For some reason, every single feature from Mailbox has been redone except the ability

00:54:37   to freely move the email around. Why has nobody ever done this? I don't understand. Anyway,

00:54:44   they have a thing on the Mac app, which is a home screen, which is like, here's an inspirational

00:54:50   image and it's like, good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Their general idea is that they

00:54:58   by default will only let you access your email certain times of the day. This is my problem.

00:55:04   you have to override that.

00:55:06   It's like, come on, you're not my dad.

00:55:08   I don't need you to do this by default.

00:55:13   - I don't understand why.

00:55:14   Like I don't need my email client to be my life coach.

00:55:17   You are my email client.

00:55:20   - You do not need to do this.

00:55:22   Look, if I want to set this up

00:55:24   and you want to give me those features, fine.

00:55:28   But by default, no, that part immediately turned off

00:55:32   and it's very easy to turn off

00:55:33   and now I never see it.

00:55:34   So we'll give them a thumbs up on that,

00:55:36   of like that part, I can just jettison into the sun

00:55:40   and I never need to think about it again, right?

00:55:42   (laughing)

00:55:45   The Mac and iOS apps now could not look more different

00:55:48   from each other.

00:55:49   Like one, the Mac OS app has no dark mode,

00:55:53   which is just like, what are you doing?

00:55:55   You didn't even, like, did you even bother?

00:55:58   Like your old app has it.

00:56:00   Like this is like the thing of like,

00:56:02   I don't understand why they have chosen to do this part now,

00:56:06   considering they have done so little to the iOS app,

00:56:10   except add in the bare bones, like need to add this in

00:56:15   so it works with the overall system of like the gatekeeper

00:56:18   and I'll get to notification and newsletter filtering

00:56:21   in a minute.

00:56:21   Like they've added those in,

00:56:22   but they're like they look clunky in the iOS app

00:56:25   because like they're not really supposed to be there.

00:56:28   It's like I'm not fully sure why they decided

00:56:30   to just redesign one platform

00:56:32   and they still didn't do all of it.

00:56:35   And like, and it's super weird, right?

00:56:36   That you can turn all these features off,

00:56:39   like all of the stuff, you can just use it

00:56:41   like on the iOS and iPadOS or the Mac,

00:56:43   it's just like, this is just old school way,

00:56:45   but you still got it, like it's,

00:56:47   and you can't archive anymore,

00:56:48   you're still doing the done thing,

00:56:49   which I just find strange.

00:56:50   On the iOS app, it is nightmarish to recategorize an email.

00:56:55   So like they do the categorization, right?

00:56:59   like it's like personal, notification, and newsletter.

00:57:04   On the Mac app, you can like open this panel

00:57:12   that also reminds me of Hey,

00:57:13   where you can type in what you want to do with an email,

00:57:17   and it like gives you a bunch of options, right?

00:57:19   So like, let me just bring this up so you can,

00:57:21   I don't even remember how to do it.

00:57:24   There's so many, command center they call it.

00:57:26   So, and then you can like,

00:57:28   We have a bunch of keyboard shortcuts,

00:57:30   and there's a whole list of things you can do with an email,

00:57:32   but you can just start typing them in

00:57:34   and it will take you there.

00:57:35   And one of them is to just like, oh, this is an email,

00:57:37   change category to newsletter,

00:57:39   or change category to notification.

00:57:40   So that's pretty easy to do on the Mac version.

00:57:44   On the iOS app, you would not know how to do this

00:57:48   unless you used Spark so much like I do.

00:57:51   So currently, if you get an email that comes through

00:57:55   from a sender as a newsletter or a notification,

00:57:59   but you actually want to show in the inbox.

00:58:01   An example of this to me was Google security alerts,

00:58:04   like security alerts or whatever,

00:58:05   like two-factor code, say, some that might come by email.

00:58:09   You don't necessarily want those to be notifications

00:58:11   because they're hidden.

00:58:12   And if somebody's signed into my Gmail account,

00:58:14   I'd prefer it to show in the inbox.

00:58:17   You have to tap on the email, tap on the sender,

00:58:21   like the To field.

00:58:23   So you're tapping on your own name really,

00:58:25   but you're tapping on the two field.

00:58:27   And then there are these three buttons

00:58:28   under the name of the subject line.

00:58:31   One says people, one says notification,

00:58:33   one says newsletter.

00:58:35   Now, the reason this is so complicated

00:58:37   is 'cause Spark used to do all this sort of stuff

00:58:39   if you wanted it to, but it wasn't so important

00:58:41   and they didn't bother to change that in any way.

00:58:44   Like there is, in the Mac app,

00:58:48   you can change it via like these toolbar buttons

00:58:50   And the app kind of has these toolbar buttons on iOS

00:58:54   that are hidden behind three dots.

00:58:55   And you can tap the three dots,

00:58:56   and it will say to you, add to priority sender,

00:59:00   which is like a new thing that they have,

00:59:01   or it kind of pins those people at the top, like VIPs.

00:59:04   So they've added that button in,

00:59:06   but they haven't added,

00:59:07   and they've also added in the mute conversation button,

00:59:09   a block domain button, all good buttons.

00:59:12   A set aside button,

00:59:13   which is another thing they took from Hey, right?

00:59:15   Where you can like say, set this email aside

00:59:17   and it kind of just floats in the app, right?

00:59:19   is like a pinned kind of way to remind you.

00:59:22   So they've got all of that, but they haven't got the way

00:59:25   to re-categorize an email.

00:59:28   So they've added a bunch of buttons except this one button,

00:59:31   so you have to do this really weird work around

00:59:34   to get it to be able to actually re-categorize an email.

00:59:39   So let's talk about these categorizations.

00:59:41   So they have notifications and they have newsletters.

00:59:44   The way these are implemented on both platforms,

00:59:46   visually very different, but on both of them,

00:59:49   really confusing. So one thing that they do is like they kind of on the mac it's like

00:59:54   got its own little icon and it says newsletters and you get like an icon and like the name of the

00:59:59   sender so you they like collapse it basically so if you had like four newsletters they kind of stack

01:00:05   up like horizontally so you would see like newsletter one newsletter two newsletter three

01:00:10   so you at least have the names of the apps the emails that are in there on ios it shows just the

01:00:16   icon, the icon that they've chosen sometimes for that sender which might not

01:00:23   be really of anything that makes any sense. So like for example I have a relay

01:00:28   FM icon on my notifications well that was PayPal so that's not particularly

01:00:33   helpful, not particularly helpful for me but on the Mac it says PayPal right

01:00:39   because they've completely implemented the UI differently on both platforms but

01:00:44   So it does this categorization, right?

01:00:46   So it collects up emails for you that it's decided

01:00:49   or even use that as a notifications.

01:00:51   The issue is it moves around all the time.

01:00:54   So you have two options of where you can put it, right?

01:00:57   You can either pin these categories

01:01:00   to the bottom of the emails you've received today.

01:01:04   - Like in the inbox view or like in the emails themselves?

01:01:07   - So in the inbox view, they categorize things by today,

01:01:10   yesterday, last week, and then into months, right?

01:01:12   - Got it.

01:01:13   you can pin notifications and newsletters to the bottom of the email list that you've received today,

01:01:19   or you can choose them to be chronological based on when the last email in that category was received.

01:01:27   Both of these options are bad in their own individual ways. Allow me to explain.

01:01:34   The one that is just chronological, so every time a new newsletter comes in, right, means that consistently

01:01:40   throughout the day, the notifications and newsletters

01:01:43   will be reprioritizing itself as to where it believes

01:01:47   it should sit based on when the most recent notifications

01:01:51   come in.

01:01:52   But that doesn't necessarily mean

01:01:54   that this is the most important.

01:01:55   In fact, this whole category is supposed to suggest

01:01:58   that these emails are less important, right?

01:02:00   It's why they've taken them out of my inbox.

01:02:02   However, throughout the day, this may continue

01:02:05   to keep reappearing on the top of the list for me, right?

01:02:08   So that's just weird.

01:02:09   Seems like a bug more than anything else.

01:02:11   No, it's a choice, Stephen.

01:02:13   You choose.

01:02:15   So you've got inbox, groups, position in the list.

01:02:19   Stick to today or chronological.

01:02:21   This is the intended way that these are supposed to go.

01:02:26   But what's worse is to stick to today, right?

01:02:28   So if you choose stick to today, what will happen is, as new emails come in throughout

01:02:35   the day, they go above these notifications on newsletters, right? Until the day ticks

01:02:42   over. When the day ticks over, they're now at the top of your email inbox. So notifications

01:02:47   that could now be four days old take number one priority in your email inbox if you haven't

01:02:53   cleared them. Because they now, as soon as midnight ticks over, notifications will appear

01:02:59   above any emails received the previous day, no matter who they're from or their priority

01:03:04   But ultimately, these filters just move up and down in your inbox all the time.

01:03:11   Why do they not have fixed places inside of the app?

01:03:14   I know you don't like the sidebar anymore, but maybe there could just be like an icon

01:03:19   somewhere.

01:03:20   Or like give me that as a choice.

01:03:21   But like these two things, they're just like flying all over the place all the time.

01:03:26   Also, by default, I still get notifications for all of these things.

01:03:30   And if I get an email that comes in as a newsletter and I mark it as done from the email notification,

01:03:40   by and large when I open the app, it's still there as a new email inside of the notification.

01:03:46   And I don't, like section, I don't know why it's doing that.

01:03:49   That's a bug.

01:03:50   Similarly, I have, my email is out of sync on my Mac and on my iPhone.

01:03:55   Some emails that I mark as done, they don't remove from my inbox on one platform or the

01:03:59   other. These are bugs. The other things are just bad choices. Or like they categorize

01:04:04   wrong. So like I got an email from my credit card provider. On my iPad it was considered

01:04:10   a regular email. On my Mac it was considered a notification email.

01:04:14   So because you can get real payments done on an iPad.

01:04:17   Talking about the done, by the way. So like on iOS they replaced the archive button with

01:04:23   the done button. So it's this little tick instead of the archive thing. But on the Mac

01:04:28   have you look at an email top right hand corner they have a bunch of buttons that

01:04:32   you can press for it right you can mark it you can set asides mark as priority

01:04:37   mark as unread delete it or snooze it on the top right hand corner that's where

01:04:42   all the buttons are that's where the buttons have always been for spark there

01:04:45   was in the top right hand corner the done button arguably the most important

01:04:50   button for email is way smaller and it's on the top left hand side next to the

01:04:56   back button. Oh no, no, buttons shouldn't go there. I don't know why it's up there.

01:05:03   In top left hand corner you've got done and back and they're also in one like

01:05:09   circle button of a with a divider through the middle as if they do kind of

01:05:14   like one or the other thing. I don't understand why they've done that that's

01:05:17   just mad to me. I think that might be the end of my current list of grievances but

01:05:22   I have like it just an overall thing that I want to say like people might say

01:05:25   Like you can turn off some of these features, change app or whatever, but like I'm really ingrained in

01:05:30   Spark's sharing features and have been a paying customer for years now

01:05:34   And so like I'm kind of stuck for now unless I decide I want to completely blow up

01:05:40   My entire way of doing dealing with work email even more than they decided to do it for me

01:05:46   Which I will say I believe it is incredibly arrogant for a developer to think that they have a brand new take

01:05:51   For email and then force it on their existing user base

01:05:54   - Mm-hmm, especially when they're paying for it.

01:05:57   - If you decide you want to do this,

01:06:00   Redol, create a new service, right?

01:06:02   Because you've decided that you want to make,

01:06:06   like, oh, we don't believe that you should even use

01:06:09   the verbiage that literally everybody else uses.

01:06:11   We've decided it should change.

01:06:13   If you wanna give this a shot, fine, go give it a shot.

01:06:16   But like fundamentally reshaping things

01:06:19   for people that are used to the convention

01:06:21   of literally every other email app since Gmail was invented.

01:06:26   It's incredibly arrogant, especially when your first shot

01:06:30   at it is genuinely as bad as this update is.

01:06:32   That is the end of what I have to say about this.

01:06:35   I'm super upset about this, as you can tell, because

01:06:38   I don't know why they've done it.

01:06:40   I just can't I can't work it out.

01:06:42   There are so many things they could have done to make subscription money.

01:06:46   They didn't need to go this far.

01:06:49   The only thing I want to say, first of all, thank you, Myke.

01:06:52   I really enjoy the spiciness of all of this.

01:06:57   Just looking at the website for Spark,

01:07:00   I get this vibe from it of Spark now being this Silicon Valley

01:07:09   modern service that wants to make your life better.

01:07:14   And it's not just about doing email.

01:07:18   It's about a new way of working.

01:07:20   It's about refine your workflow, build better habits.

01:07:24   Like, I don't want you to tell me about my habits.

01:07:29   I don't need my email client to lecture me on my habits.

01:07:34   I need my email client like I need a screwdriver.

01:07:37   When I take you out of the box,

01:07:39   and you need to do your thing,

01:07:41   and then I close you or I put you back in the box

01:07:43   and you're done.

01:07:44   Like, this relationship between me and you, email client,

01:07:48   like it's a transaction.

01:07:49   I give you money, I give you my interactions,

01:07:52   you do your job.

01:07:53   There are no feelings here.

01:07:55   There are no lecturing, no habits, no like,

01:07:58   we're not friends.

01:08:00   And instead I get this vibe from this website,

01:08:02   like find your focus, love your email client.

01:08:07   And I mean, a pretty good tell from this website

01:08:11   is the fact that one of the demo emails that they show

01:08:14   is new NFT release as the subject line.

01:08:18   And that pretty much sums it up.

01:08:20   Like the kind of vibe they're going for.

01:08:23   And when I saw that I was like, yup, I get it now.

01:08:25   That's the vibe we're getting from this.

01:08:28   I understand your frustration, Myke.

01:08:30   And my takeaway from all of this is, you know,

01:08:34   I'm pretty glad I went back to Apple Mail months ago.

01:08:38   - I want to now.

01:08:39   Like I came to this realization,

01:08:41   like I think the only place I could be happy

01:08:44   is in a really simple email app now,

01:08:46   and Apple Mail's the simplest,

01:08:48   I have come to rely so much on the team sharing,

01:08:51   I don't know what I'm gonna do.

01:08:53   - Yeah, I get it.

01:08:54   - Right?

01:08:55   - Go back to plain old-fashioned forewording.

01:08:58   - Yeah, but then how do I have conversations in line?

01:09:01   That's such a massive thing for me.

01:09:03   - I know, I know.

01:09:04   - Now I have to start taking PDFs or screenshots

01:09:08   of email again and talking about them in Slack.

01:09:10   I just don't wanna do that.

01:09:12   But if this is the route they're going to go down,

01:09:15   I don't want to be in it.

01:09:17   I have been as much of a fan and have spoken as much as well

01:09:22   as I can about any email app as I have about Spark.

01:09:26   Their team sharing service, I have evangelized that,

01:09:29   because I think it's a fantastic thing that they did.

01:09:31   And they implemented it so well.

01:09:33   And it's been rock solid for the many years I've used it.

01:09:36   But I don't want this.

01:09:39   I don't want this.

01:09:40   And I have no problem with them doing this.

01:09:43   If they think that they want to create this,

01:09:45   we're going to look after you in our little garden of email.

01:09:49   They can make that if they want to,

01:09:51   but I don't want it to be this.

01:09:56   They should make a different thing that does that.

01:09:58   They should actually let me disable all of the stuff,

01:10:01   but I can't.

01:10:02   - The little garden of email, that's good.

01:10:04   (laughs)

01:10:05   Hello, Mr. Hurley, welcome to email.

01:10:08   Let us ask--

01:10:10   But this is it. Good morning. Let's check your inbox.

01:10:12   No, no, I just...

01:10:13   I already decided that when I opened the app.

01:10:15   You don't need to tell me that now we can check it together.

01:10:18   You don't need to hold my hand. I am a grown up.

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01:12:40   future Steven editing this episode and we really didn't address it very well so

01:12:46   we recorded the interview with underscore before the rest of the show

01:12:49   and Federico couldn't make it due to like a scheduling conflict so Myke and I

01:12:53   spoke to Underscore and then we came back around and recorded the rest of the show.

01:12:58   It was very confusing live and very confusing in the edit, so I just wanted to clarify things.

01:13:03   But anyways, back to the show.

01:13:09   For this last segment of the show this week, we are joined by a very special guest.

01:13:14   Hello Underscore David Smith.

01:13:16   Hello, thank you for having me.

01:13:18   I'm trying to think of the last time you were on.

01:13:19   been a while. It's been too long, so thank you for for joining us. We won't talk to you about the

01:13:25   Apple Watch Ultra, but before we get there, I just need to know, how did you become such a good

01:13:29   vlogger? I was watching this video and I was so angry about how good it was. I think that's very

01:13:35   kind of you, is probably the first thing to say. It's definitely not something that I have a ton

01:13:39   of experience with. I've done a few little videos like this over the years where like I do a little

01:13:45   video for my wife or my parents or things like that. But I think I did a little bit of the

01:13:51   developing the skills there, but I think also I've just watched a lot of vlogs and I think

01:13:55   you kind of get a sense for what works and what doesn't and that. But yeah, it's like,

01:14:00   it is very much, this is a new skill for me that I'm developing.

01:14:04   Unbelievably to me, the last time Dave was on the show as like a guest like we have here,

01:14:12   not including the family feuds and stuff. Episode 45 in June of 2015. That doesn't seem possible.

01:14:19   Right? That seems wrong, but I don't know. Yeah, well the CMS is only as good as the data people

01:14:25   put in it, you know? That's what I say. Interesting. Okay, it's even me or you, right? Let's put that

01:14:31   data in so we'll find out later on if one of us was wrong. It's good to be back either way.

01:14:35   Yeah, so if you haven't read/watched Dave's Apple Watch Ultra review, you should go do that.

01:14:42   You took it out and hiked with it for several days. And there were several things I wanted

01:14:46   to touch on here. The first one is, Dave, what could you say to Myke Hurley to get him to buy

01:14:52   an Apple Watch Ultra? I mean, I think the biggest thing that I would get, I imagine would be like a

01:14:58   thing that would get Myke in the door with this, is the way it looks. That I think there are some

01:15:03   things that it does that are very cool and very fun from a "if you want to go out into the

01:15:07   wilderness" perspective. But I think just on the wrist, I love it. I think it looks great. I think

01:15:13   the titanium in orange is just gorgeous. And I think the size actually is an enhancement

01:15:20   to its fashionability rather than an attraction. And so I think those are the things that I think

01:15:26   as soon as one ever touches Myke's wrist, it is going to stay there. And it's just a question

01:15:30   of how long it is until he goes into a store or someone in his life happens to put one on him?

01:15:36   Well, let's hope that that doesn't happen because based on what you said,

01:15:40   if me and you met for lunch and you put it on my wrist, that now becomes my watch.

01:15:44   That's how you just described that. So I would look out if I was you.

01:15:50   Or I guess we're having lunch at an Apple store so I can have you try on one of their watches first.

01:15:53   Take packed lunches, go in some sandwiches, just sit down, watch a little presentation.

01:15:57   We can sit in the Grove.

01:15:58   I am not convinced of that.

01:16:02   So, all of the images that I've seen,

01:16:05   it looks way nicer than I expect.

01:16:08   And I understand what you mean about the fashionability aspect,

01:16:13   but my thing is, how would this be with a shirt with cuffs, right?

01:16:20   Like a long-sleeve shirt.

01:16:21   And I don't-- or like a nice suit jacket or something.

01:16:25   I'm not convinced that this watch would sit kindly under or around that kind of thing.

01:16:34   So I don't know.

01:16:35   >>

01:16:35   >>

01:16:42   Like my suspicion is if you put one of those like the brown metallic link or like the one

01:16:50   of the link bracelets or any of those kind of like, you know, fancy looking bands, I

01:16:54   think it would dress up pretty well.

01:16:56   And especially if you wore it crown in, which is the way that I tend to wear it.

01:16:59   >> TARADINO I can't do that.

01:17:00   >> BOWEN I think it's the best, but if you can't, I think that also classes it up a bit

01:17:05   under a shirt because then only a little bit is sticking out rather than like the crown

01:17:09   and all the other...

01:17:10   >> TARADINO But then the watch is upside down.

01:17:11   their buttons sticking out. If the crown is on the left the watch is upside down

01:17:15   and and I will go to my grave with that argument no one will convince me

01:17:20   otherwise. I don't think has to be that extreme can I just dial that back a little bit.

01:17:25   No no. I will die before I do this. I will die on this on this mountain like I will I will

01:17:32   unlike Dave who goes up mountains and doesn't die I will die on this this

01:17:36   mountain I know that the the phrase is hill but I figured considering we're

01:17:40   talking about the ultra, it should all convert to mountains rather than hills.

01:17:43   Yeah. Dave, what bands have you tried on the ultra?

01:17:47   Sure. So I have the Orange Alpine Loop was the band that I bought with it, which I think

01:17:53   is fantastic and works really well for just general use. And then I've tried it with all

01:17:58   of the other bands that I have at home. So I tried it with a braided solo loop, which

01:18:04   I think looks really nice, but I need to get a smaller sized solo loop because the watch

01:18:11   is physically taller, it means that the sizing doesn't fit my 45mm rated solo loop.

01:18:19   So it looks nice, but it's a little bit wobbly, which I don't particularly like.

01:18:23   And I've tried it with the sport loop and the sport band and the Nike sport band.

01:18:28   And I think it actually looks solid with all of those.

01:18:31   I think I really like the way that it's the like I have the look of it with the white

01:18:36   Sport band I think is my second favorite look compared after the orange Alpine loop

01:18:41   Like I think that's just such a classic kind of pairing of type like to take in the titanium and white just like really play off

01:18:49   Each other well, I think yeah, I picked up

01:18:51   I was just kind of poking around the Apple Store app and

01:18:54   They had the ocean band in white and stock at my local store

01:18:58   So I picked one up and I haven't switched back to the Alpine loop. The ocean band is sort of weird-looking

01:19:04   In yellow, I think it looks like a bunch of like macaroni noodles all taped together

01:19:09   but I like the white and the titanium a lot and the our friend David Sparks and they get a tweet about this or

01:19:16   I'll try to dig it up

01:19:19   but his he was like doing some stuff like around the house and in the yard and

01:19:23   his

01:19:25   Orange band is already like really

01:19:27   kind of dirty looking and you know you can clean them or whatever but it's

01:19:32   something to be aware of for any really any cloth or fabric band. David Sparks

01:19:39   working down in the mine? What's going on with this? He's in the content

01:19:43   mines you know chipping out tips for people. That must be. You can make your watch

01:19:47   real dirty. I thought that's wild but look but it's fabric though right like

01:19:52   that's the difference between this watch band and a lot of the other Apple watch

01:19:55   bands. This is a fabric band. But I think most people are used to some form of rubber

01:20:01   as their Apple Watch band, so this would be a surprise, I guess.

01:20:04   >> And I will say, I have put all of my fabric bands in the washing machine, just in one

01:20:10   of those little delicates bags, many times, and it works totally fine. They come out super

01:20:15   clean. So that's my solution to that problem, is if I was out working in the content mines

01:20:19   and came back with a dirty strap, I would just throw it in the laundry with my next

01:20:24   load and it would be fine.

01:20:25   I wonder if there is a knowledge base article on cleaning Apple Watch bands.

01:20:32   There is.

01:20:33   There is? Interesting.

01:20:35   There is. I have linked to it in the past, I think. I'm trying to find it now.

01:20:38   But it... there's several like cleaning ones.

01:20:41   Okay, here's one.

01:20:42   "Band care information for Apple Watch Ultra."

01:20:45   This is a specific...

01:20:46   Oh, look at this.

01:20:48   Okay, this is not related, but such...

01:20:49   talking about third-party accessory bands.

01:20:52   Some may interfere with the wrist detect feature interfere with compass may contain materials that cause skin sensitivities

01:20:59   They just want you to buy. Yeah, I love that. They're just like

01:21:01   That was the party bands. They might make your arm fall off. You want to watch out for those things?

01:21:06   Yeah, and there's some cleaning stuff in there. So, uh,

01:21:09   I have to take care. So yeah, don't don't use scary amazon bands. Um, but yeah, the ocean band is cool

01:21:16   I I like the white look a lot. I think it's one of the it's I look forward to seeing that one in person because yeah

01:21:21   In pictures it looked like macaroni, but if in person I imagine it could look a little

01:21:26   nicer.

01:21:27   All right, I have a question for the two of you.

01:21:28   I want to know your second impressions, right?

01:21:30   We had your first impression, Steven, we spoke about it on the show last week.

01:21:34   And I'm actually starting to think that Federico has some kind of problem with the Apple Watch

01:21:38   Ultra, right?

01:21:39   Like on last week's episode, he conveniently got robbed when we were talking about the

01:21:44   Apple Watch Ultra.

01:21:45   This week's episode, he's gone mysteriously, like he's mysteriously disappeared.

01:21:49   I think he has a problem with it, but we can maybe get on that another time.

01:21:53   Maybe he has one, doesn't want to talk about it.

01:21:55   I don't know.

01:21:56   I don't know what's going on with him.

01:21:57   But I want to know your second impressions, right?

01:22:00   You've had it for an extra week, both of you.

01:22:03   Is there anything that you have changed your mind on?

01:22:06   Is there anything that you prefer about the watch than you did last time you spoke about

01:22:11   it or is there anything that is more frustrating for you than it was previously?

01:22:18   anything changed with longer term use?

01:22:20   I think the only things that come to mind is, so I've definitely noticed that I,

01:22:25   I hold the watch slightly differently when I'm using, uh, the crown or the

01:22:30   side button now that because the action button is on the opposite side, like

01:22:34   sometimes you can accidentally bump into it.

01:22:35   And I found that I now like, because the screen is slightly raised up, I find

01:22:39   that I'm like putting my, uh, my index finger on essentially the raised edge

01:22:44   of the screen and I hold it there when I'm interacting with the other buttons.

01:22:48   rather than pressing on the opposing side of the watch, which was something that I didn't

01:22:53   do initially, but I've definitely now noticed that I started to do. I think I'm noticing that

01:23:00   I really don't care. It's like the battery life is now kind of a weird thing in practice where

01:23:05   I just don't charge my watch to full anymore. I just put it on the charger when I'm taking a

01:23:11   shower and that's all I need to do. And I have no idea what battery it is, but it just never runs

01:23:17   out anymore, whereas I feel like I would notice in normal use that periodically you'd get

01:23:22   the little buzz buzz on your wrist and it's like, "Hey, your watch is running low on

01:23:27   battery," but that never seems to happen anymore. So that's definitely a plus and

01:23:32   something that in my initial uses I was very focused on battery life, but in just normal

01:23:36   day-to-day, do an hour of exercise a day and otherwise just normal stuff and wearing it

01:23:41   overnight to sleep track.

01:23:43   It seems very much just like it's more than enough, and if you charge it at all during

01:23:48   the day, it'll probably be plenty to get you through the day.

01:23:54   I think the only thing that I'm noticing is that I definitely feel like the screen

01:23:57   is... the screen feels bigger than the software can take advantage of, and is definitely something

01:24:04   that I look at it and sometimes it feels like if you ever use an iPhone in the display zoomed

01:24:09   mode, where you can have a Pro Max, but have it pretend that your phone is actually just

01:24:18   a Pro, and it scales everything up, and it kind of feels like the Ultra has a little

01:24:22   bit of that feel to it, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it makes it very glanceable,

01:24:27   but it definitely feels sometimes that I'm like, "Whoa, it's like this big screen,

01:24:30   but not like big data." So I think those are my kind of having used it a little bit

01:24:35   longer notes.

01:24:36   I agree with all of that in particular the software not taking advantage of the the bigger screen

01:24:42   It's like you could do so much more with it. I think the only thing I would add is that the size has become

01:24:48   Normalized for me some point over the last probably even the last like two or three days

01:24:53   I don't look down at it and think oh gosh, that's big

01:24:57   it's just like this is what my Apple watch looks like and I wore my series 7 the other night to sleep and

01:25:03   And I put it on, I was like, oh, this watch is teeny tiny and weirdly bubbly and like,

01:25:08   not flat.

01:25:09   And it's funny just how quickly you get used to what you wear every day.

01:25:14   But I've been, I've continued to be really happy with it.

01:25:17   And I think it's by far the best Apple Watch I've ever I've ever owned.

01:25:23   This is the thing I think I'm struggling to get my head around, right?

01:25:27   You know, I've consumed all the content, right?

01:25:30   I listened to you and David talk about it on Mac Power Users as well, Stephen.

01:25:34   Right? Like I'm hearing all these people talk about it.

01:25:36   I think like the thing that I'm struggling is it just because it's new and

01:25:39   different? Like, is that why everyone likes it? Cause it's new and different?

01:25:42   Because as you're saying, right,

01:25:43   the software's not really doing anything specific.

01:25:46   That a lot of the features that it's, that it does have,

01:25:50   realistically, most of us are never going to use or use very infrequently.

01:25:57   Is it the newness that makes it so enticing?

01:26:00   Like, I think I'm struggling to get my head around, like, why

01:26:03   everyone's so excited about it.

01:26:05   I think it makes me think a lot of the reality, like the way that

01:26:10   iPhone phone screen size kind of can hit differently for different

01:26:14   people, where like, you know, sort of like Plus Club or now like the Max

01:26:17   phones was, it's like, there is something that just like having a big, having a,

01:26:22   the big device can sometimes just be really nice and is very useful. And it isn't even

01:26:28   necessarily because it's not necessarily like an iPhone 14 Pro Max versus an iPhone

01:26:34   14 Pro. It doesn't necessarily do that much more than one or the other. Functionally,

01:26:40   they're essentially the same, but there's something nice about having that big screen.

01:26:44   And that's the part that I think I'm settling into my like of it for the Ultra is that I

01:26:50   I just like this size of screen and it's essentially as big as could physically work

01:26:57   well on my wrist I think.

01:26:58   And so I don't expect Apple necessarily would make a bigger watch that I would like

01:27:02   more but this seems to hit right at that limit.

01:27:06   But because it's at that limit it's just perfect in terms of like it's just nice

01:27:10   having a big screen.

01:27:11   Like there's just something about big screens that is great.

01:27:14   One of the things that I love about the larger iPhone is I can get more on the display.

01:27:20   That's something that I've always valued.

01:27:22   There's more information on the display, but it feels like that's not really a thing with

01:27:29   the Ultra.

01:27:30   Just everything's bigger.

01:27:32   I don't ever use display zoom.

01:27:35   I will turn that off immediately.

01:27:36   I'll always change it to the minimum that I can.

01:27:39   On my Mac, I knock it down one.

01:27:41   I have dynamic type on the bottom setting on my iPhone.

01:27:46   I just like loads of information on a screen.

01:27:49   And that's one of the things that I value about a larger screen.

01:27:52   But from what you're both telling me, I wouldn't really be able to benefit from that very much

01:27:59   with watchOS on the Ultra.

01:28:00   And I need an example there, because I ran into when I was hiking with it.

01:28:04   I spent a lot of time with having a map on my watch.

01:28:07   And it was one of those things of like, I've done a lot of hiking with my 45mm watch, and

01:28:13   coming to this, having that little bit of extra size made a difference in having it

01:28:17   be a bit bigger.

01:28:18   And that was a case where my app was able to fully take advantage of the space because

01:28:22   I just went edge to edge and it fully stretched out.

01:28:25   And having that more information was nice, that rather than seeing just around myself,

01:28:30   I could see a bit more area.

01:28:32   And so, if software can take advantage of it, it definitely is a plus.

01:28:37   I think in the Workouts app you get an extra metric, which is nice I suppose, but maybe

01:28:41   not as transformative.

01:28:43   I think there's an element that, yeah, it's not fully manifested itself in terms of taking

01:28:48   advantage of the bigger size, but the bigger size just intrinsically is nice, and it makes

01:28:54   me look forward to when it does fully take advantage of it.

01:28:57   The only thing that really makes me want this is that it's a new design, because I am so

01:29:02   fed up of the way the Apple Watch looks.

01:29:05   I've just had enough of this very specific design language that hasn't changed.

01:29:11   They made them physically larger, but they look, you know, turn the screens off and all

01:29:16   of these things look ultimately the same.

01:29:18   They just have different materials.

01:29:20   This one is different and that is intriguing to me, but it's not different in the ways

01:29:25   that I want it to be still.

01:29:27   Right?

01:29:28   So like, I think that's one of the reasons that I haven't jumped on this.

01:29:32   where, you know, if you would have said to me like maybe a year ago like, "Oh they're

01:29:36   gonna release an Apple Watch that looks a lot different, like it has like a flat screen

01:29:41   and it has some like different dimensions and stuff." I'd be like, "Oh I'm interested

01:29:44   in that." But whilst I still look at it and I'm like, "That looks nice because it's new

01:29:49   and I think that that is interesting." It's still suffering from some of the things I

01:29:55   don't like about the Apple Watch design in general and why I kind of begrudgingly wear

01:29:59   I want most of the time. It hasn't changed in the ways that I want it to change. And

01:30:04   I have things that I think are reasonable and unreasonable. Like unreasonable, I want

01:30:09   a round Apple watch, but I just don't think I'm going to get that. And I think as we're

01:30:14   recording this, I think tomorrow Google have their event and they're expecting to announce

01:30:19   their watch, which is going to be round. And I'm like really intrigued to see how good

01:30:23   or bad the software support is for a round smartwatch again like now we'll see but like

01:30:30   you know things like flat sides and that kind of stuff is something that I think would be

01:30:34   interesting flat screen is interesting enough but then they made the crown massive so I

01:30:40   don't know I don't know but you guys don't have to sell me on it but this isn't what

01:30:44   this segment's all about like about selling me on the Apple watch well that's not what

01:30:48   you think it was about yes but I know that I have I have a selection of people in my

01:30:52   my life that are trying to get me to buy this watch. I'm not really sure why but

01:30:57   it seems like a coordinated effort like for example our friend Matt Alexander is

01:31:02   also keeps sending me messages telling me you're gonna buy one of these. He just

01:31:06   keeps sending me pictures and telling me I'm gonna buy one. So I don't know why.

01:31:09   Let's talk about the action button because I actually think this is

01:31:12   something that would probably annoy me because I don't because it's you know I

01:31:17   keep hearing people say like they can I can I accidentally set it off and I know

01:31:21   know, Dave, that you've had some issues with it. How are you feeling now about the

01:31:24   action button?

01:31:25   >> DAVE I think I still feel a bit frustrated by it.

01:31:29   I think for a long time I've thought that the Apple Watch could benefit from having

01:31:33   a button. That in terms of when I'm designing software, when I'm building all kinds of

01:31:37   different watch apps, I think sometimes you run into a situation where it's like, it

01:31:41   would be nice to be able to have the user do something but have them not have to tap

01:31:48   something on the screen, so both in contexts where the waterlock feature is enabled, or

01:31:52   even just in general, there is something where it's nice to be able to use the app without

01:31:56   looking at the screen, and you just need a button for that.

01:31:59   But I sort of see what Apple was going with, where you can assign, the user can control

01:32:06   what the button does, rather than software controlling what the button does.

01:32:11   But I think that choice now leads to a situation where it isn't actually as useful as it

01:32:18   would have been if it was just an extra input to WatchOS.

01:32:25   Because what happens now is, as a user, you choose what you want it to do.

01:32:30   I think the default actions seem to be things like opening the workouts app, or starting

01:32:34   a workout of a particular type, or turning on and off the flashlight, or those types

01:32:39   of things, which I sort of get, but it's like opening the workouts app, well I can just

01:32:46   tap on a complication to do that. It seems a bit strange that this giant button on the

01:32:52   side of the watch that has this very prominent capability and is this very singular thing

01:32:58   and I'm only going to use it as a launcher feels a bit empty in terms of it's not this

01:33:06   big thing that it could be. But what it means though is that as a developer or inside of

01:33:13   an app, the action that it takes when you push it is slightly undefined and varies depending

01:33:21   on how you've configured it and whether you've pressed it before. It creates this weird set

01:33:26   of ambiguity about what's going to happen when you push that button, which I don't really

01:33:31   like and I feel like would have been better served for it to just be an input in apps

01:33:38   that if you're in the workouts app and you hit it, it does something specific. Like it

01:33:42   either is starting a workout or if a workout is running, I think usually it drops a marker.

01:33:46   See, this is the wild part of this to me. It sometimes does one thing and then sometimes

01:33:52   does another thing. And I find that to be a very peculiar way of making that button

01:33:59   work.

01:34:00   It just feels weird to me, and I don't know if this is one of these things where in WatchOS

01:34:06   10, I guess, it'll be different.

01:34:08   They'll change the way that the action button works, but in its current form, I think it's

01:34:14   at best a launcher, and at worst something that can cause confusion, or in my case it

01:34:20   kind of caused a lot of frustration because it did something that I, while I configured

01:34:24   it to do a certain thing, I didn't think that it would do that thing in a different

01:34:27   context, and so it ended up being that, in my case, it ended a workout prematurely, which

01:34:33   was just really frustrating to me.

01:34:35   Which is like, I told it to do that.

01:34:36   It was totally the way I had configured it to do it.

01:34:39   But it seems strange that because it's at this very high-level system that it overrides

01:34:45   everything rather than it being just part of the UI and part of the actual way that

01:34:55   the current running application is operating and there's just this extra input to it.

01:35:00   At least it could be an easy way to launch your custom watch faces that you make, you

01:35:04   know?

01:35:05   You could do that.

01:35:06   Yes.

01:35:07   And then you've got like the nice watch face button.

01:35:09   It is true.

01:35:10   So you could always press that and you know, this watch face could open.

01:35:12   Steven, have you configured the action button for anything yet?

01:35:16   Flashlight, baby.

01:35:17   But you're still like, flashlighting all the time?

01:35:18   All the time.

01:35:19   No, not all the time.

01:35:20   something that like that I think what if you accidentally hit it at night and

01:35:26   then the light you know the watch is all lit up I guess that's just not a concern

01:35:29   for you I don't know if the action button works in sleep mode or not I

01:35:33   don't haven't tried that I guess I could put it in sleep mode and see but I've

01:35:37   been sleep tracking with the series 7 because I find this ultra to be a little

01:35:41   big to sleep in I see you are still that may change to a time day watch night

01:35:44   watch that is like a consistent in your life right now all right I'm telling it

01:35:49   that I'm going to sleep.

01:35:50   Good night, Steven.

01:35:51   Sleep tight.

01:35:52   Don't let the bug bugs bed bugs bed bugs bite.

01:35:54   There you go.

01:35:55   We got it.

01:35:56   Yeah, it says press and hold crown to unlock.

01:35:59   So you have to unlock it before you do it, which is probably good.

01:36:03   Do you have any automations tied to sleep mode?

01:36:05   Because like you may have just ruined every one of your devices, you know, like they're

01:36:08   all just gone wild.

01:36:09   No, it just it sets my lock screen and home screen basically to black with a couple of

01:36:15   widgets that I want and then puts my watch in sleep mode.

01:36:18   But I use this app, I don't know if you all have heard of this app, it's called Sleep++.

01:36:21   Some guy makes it.

01:36:22   That's what I use for my sleep tracking.

01:36:23   It's a French app.

01:36:24   I think it's a French app.

01:36:26   BLEUCE BLEUCE.

01:36:27   Sleep BLEUCE BLEUCE.

01:36:28   One last question from me underscore.

01:36:31   In looking at the watch line now, in some ways it's more unified than ever.

01:36:36   The Series 3 is gone finally.

01:36:39   You have the SE2, the 8, and now the Ultra.

01:36:43   But the Ultra does have a lot of these features, like the action button, that aren't present

01:36:48   on the other watches.

01:36:50   If you could pick one feature from the Ultra and sort of wave your wand and make it appear

01:36:55   on maybe the SE3 and the Series 9 this time next year, what would you want those kind

01:37:02   of mainline watches to pick up from this new high-end one?

01:37:05   Yeah, I mean, I think that's a tricky question.

01:37:09   Because a lot of what makes the Ultra good are things—it's like, I love the durability

01:37:16   of the Ultra, which in terms of like, as far as I can tell, it's indestructible.

01:37:21   And that is lovely, and it would be lovely for that to come down to the other watches.

01:37:24   Like I actually just, you know, it's like the number of—because people sometimes break

01:37:28   the other watches, I've heard.

01:37:31   And so—

01:37:32   >> MATT PORTER, Ph.D. I don't—that's fake news.

01:37:33   >> STEVEN SCOTT, Ph.D. Fake news, yeah.

01:37:34   I mean, especially not bike riding.

01:37:36   So that's a feature that I would love all the watches to gain, that this screen, like

01:37:41   when it was just wild I was watching some, you know, the classic thing where the YouTubers

01:37:44   try and break things, videos, and usually I find them a little bit frustrating, but

01:37:49   I was really curious to see where the Ultra would go.

01:37:52   And it was just like, this watch is indestructible, as far as I can tell.

01:37:55   Like in normal use, it's going to be amazing.

01:37:57   And so that would be great if that went to two other watches.

01:38:01   I think certainly obviously increasing battery life would be a good thing for them.

01:38:04   I think the siren is actually kind of one of those features that I feel like we're

01:38:09   going to get the Dear Tim videos in a year or two of situations where the sirens actually

01:38:14   really save people's lives and help them be found in a way that is super cool. I think

01:38:21   the siren app might exist on the other watches, but the speakers aren't quite as loud. So

01:38:27   that's a feature that I think would be nice to come down there. I think the action button

01:38:31   in its current form doesn't...

01:38:34   I think it would be nice if it came to the other watches and then that was part of a

01:38:38   broader rethinking in watchOS 10, that it's integrating more directly into the OS in a

01:38:45   way that I feel like makes more sense.

01:38:46   And if it does, then I think that would be really cool as a thing that elevates what's

01:38:51   possible or what watchOS 10 is capable of, if it took the action button there.

01:38:56   But I think otherwise, it's like in its current mode, it's like I don't love it enough for

01:39:03   it to be something that I would really care to make sure it's pushed out to the rest of

01:39:08   the line.

01:39:09   But if it becomes an essential part of using watchOS, then absolutely that would be amazing,

01:39:13   and sooner rather than later, because it seems like watches sometimes linger much longer

01:39:18   than we would like them to.

01:39:19   >> MATT PORTER, Ph.D. There is no siren on the other watches.

01:39:22   I took a quick look that siren's only on the fancy watch because regular watch users don't

01:39:28   get lost.

01:39:29   I think out of all the features, the siren is what I would like to see.

01:39:32   And honestly, like that should be on the phone too.

01:39:35   Like Apple's push into personal safety, both in hardware and software is really, it's really

01:39:41   encouraging.

01:39:42   I mean, it's sad that we need this sorts of things in some instances, but I would like

01:39:47   to see the siren be basically anywhere they could put it.

01:39:51   like the car crash detection, right? That showed up everywhere. And again, something

01:39:55   hopefully you never need, but if you need it, you want it there. And for me, the siren

01:40:00   falls in the same list.

01:40:01   Yeah, and it feels like an easy add to the iPhone, because if you, you're just in the

01:40:05   same, you know, if you long press on the side button and volume up, where it brings up the

01:40:09   like, you know, SOS call and the, it does the like touch ID lock and all those kind

01:40:14   of things, like having a button there that you push and it makes a lot of, makes your

01:40:18   phone make a lot of noise, seems like a perfect fit.

01:40:21   >> MATT: It is good that we have these safety features, but it is a little dystopian too.

01:40:25   I feel like the technology company is there to save your life. It's just weird. There's

01:40:31   a weird feeling to it too. Look, if I ever need them, I'll be happy I have them. But

01:40:36   there is this kind of a strange feeling to it too, I think.

01:40:39   >> COREY Yeah, and I think it's always hard to market and have a feature that your users

01:40:45   actively don't want to use but are glad that it's there. Like, I really hope that I never

01:40:50   have to, like, you know, make an SOS satellite call or have to activate my siren because

01:40:56   I'm hurt or in danger in some way. Like, I really hope I never use those, but it's like,

01:41:02   I certainly appreciate that they're there.

01:41:03   Thank you for joining us today, Dave. If people aren't running your magnificent widget smith

01:41:10   all over the place, they should go do that, but where else can people find you?

01:41:15   I'm on Twitter @_DavidSmith or David-Smith.org, that's where I do my writing, and apparently

01:41:21   now doing, you know, post my videos too.

01:41:23   Vlogging! He's a vlogger!

01:41:25   He's a vlogger! Thanks, Dave. Well, I think that about does it for this week. Welcome

01:41:32   back, Federico. We're done talking about the Ultra.

01:41:34   Yeah, thank you. Okay.

01:41:36   If you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about, head on over to the website relay.fm/connected/418.

01:41:44   While you're there, you can send us an email with feedback or follow up, or you can join

01:41:49   and get connected pro that's a longer ad free version of the show each and every week.

01:41:55   This week, we made a bunch of artwork with Dolly and it was an adventure.

01:42:00   So go go check that out.

01:42:01   I think it's fair to say we recreated with Dolly.

01:42:05   We did. Yes. And actually you haven't heard it yet because it's at the end of the episode

01:42:09   this week. It's all very confusing this week. Timelines don't make sense. You can find us

01:42:15   all on what's left of Twitter. You can find Federico Therez Vittici, V I T I C C I. He

01:42:20   is the editor in chief of MacStories.net. You can find Myke online as I M Y K E and

01:42:27   Myke hosts a bunch of shows here on Relay FM. You can follow me on Twitter as ISMH and

01:42:33   I host Mac power users here on the network as well.

01:42:36   I didn't think our sponsors this week, Squarespace, Capital One and sofa.

01:42:41   And until next time guys say goodbye.

01:42:43   I do that too.

01:42:44   Cheerio.