417: He Stole My Barbecue Stuff


00:00:00   [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:00:03   From Real FM, this is "Connected" episode 417.

00:00:13   I'm your host, Federico Vitticci,

00:00:14   and today's show is brought to you by some truly fine sponsors,

00:00:19   Rogue Amoeba, Indeed, and Texas Panda.

00:00:22   For this episode of "Connected," and for all the episodes

00:00:25   of "Connected," it is my pleasure

00:00:26   to be joined by Mr. Stephen Hackett.

00:00:29   Hello Federico.

00:00:30   Hi, how are you?

00:00:31   I'm good, what about you?

00:00:33   I am doing okay.

00:00:36   We'll talk about how I'm doing later.

00:00:38   We'll talk about that in a few minutes, yes.

00:00:43   Your emotional wellbeing is tied directly to stage manager.

00:00:46   Let's say that I'm doing, I'm doing.

00:00:49   And sometimes you just freeze randomly.

00:00:51   I am joined by Mr. Myke Hurley.

00:00:54   Why hello there.

00:00:55   How are you Myke?

00:00:56   It's been a, I'm good.

00:00:58   I'm so excited for today's episode.

00:01:02   There's some big topics in here,

00:01:03   and I think mostly I'm just gonna get to sit back

00:01:06   and enjoy it as you two tell me a bunch of stuff

00:01:08   about some things, so I'm looking forward to that.

00:01:10   - So let's dive right in.

00:01:11   We had a big pro show today.

00:01:14   Federico, give people the elevator pitch

00:01:16   for what you talked about on the pro show.

00:01:18   - What if your phone was not a phone?

00:01:23   What if your phone was like a shovel?

00:01:27   And what if the apps on your phone were not apps?

00:01:30   What if those apps were plants and your screen

00:01:33   was not a screen, but it was a garden?

00:01:35   In the Pro Show for Connected Pro members,

00:01:38   which people can sign up for at getconnectedpro.co,

00:01:42   we talk about note-taking, digital gardens,

00:01:45   and the idea of using different apps for different jobs.

00:01:50   - If you wanna hear what my brain sounds like

00:01:52   when I find out what a digital garden is,

00:01:55   you can sign up at getconnectedpro.co.

00:01:57   This is not a phrase I knew until about 20 minutes ago.

00:02:00   It's a really good pro show today.

00:02:02   If you've been on the fence,

00:02:03   you've not signed up for get connected pro,

00:02:06   give this one a go.

00:02:07   You can sign up, try it out, $5 a month,

00:02:09   you just pay the $5, you can listen to it.

00:02:11   If you think it's not for you,

00:02:11   then just don't, you just get rid of it.

00:02:13   But it's good, you get Discord,

00:02:15   you get a bunch of stuff, getconnectedpro.co.

00:02:17   I have some follow up on my iPhone 14 Pro.

00:02:22   I think I spoke about this on this show last week.

00:02:24   I tried that thing where like, I have been trying that thing where I turned off the notification

00:02:28   previews until face ID unlocked to kind of help distinguish the difference between always

00:02:33   on and not, you know, so like the always on screen just shows the name of the app and

00:02:37   like one new notification or whatever when they pop up.

00:02:40   I don't think I like it.

00:02:43   I'm remembering why I turned this feature off before because face ID is good, right?

00:02:49   But you kind of have to be in, you have to kind of give the phone what it needs for FaceID,

00:02:55   right?

00:02:56   Like it has to be directly in front of you, it has to actually get the scan.

00:02:58   Because I feel like a lot of the time now I'm seeing that I have a notification, I'm

00:03:02   looking at my phone, so I'm like "Okay, come on, do your thing!" and nothing's happening.

00:03:07   And I have to like tap the notification, I'll swipe up again to get FaceID to do its thing.

00:03:13   So I'm not sure if this is what I'm looking for.

00:03:16   Steven, you said you were going to try this, did you try this?

00:03:19   - Yeah, I've been running this way since last week's show.

00:03:23   And while I agree with you,

00:03:25   it's a bit sometimes frustrating

00:03:26   where I just want to look at my phone and see what came in.

00:03:28   And I've got to like catch face Eddie's attention.

00:03:31   Overall, I think I like it more than you do.

00:03:35   It's kind of nice from a privacy perspective

00:03:39   'cause your phone is just always on, right?

00:03:41   This place always just out there for people to see.

00:03:45   I'm gonna stick with it for a little while longer.

00:03:47   I haven't had many situations where it's like an actual problem, but I do notice that little

00:03:51   bit of friction, like you said.

00:03:53   I have actually just now turned it off because I didn't like it.

00:03:56   Okay.

00:03:57   So that's gone.

00:04:00   I was listening to the talk show, and Neil Aptel was the guest, and this is something

00:04:06   Neil Aptel mentioned in his iPhone 14 Pro review, and hearing him talk about it in more

00:04:11   detail with Jon Gruber, I agree with him that the Dynamic Islands interaction is backwards.

00:04:18   Having to long press on the widget, like long press on it to get the widget to pop up, that

00:04:24   feels wrong. After having used this, I'm in the camp of you should tap it to get it to

00:04:29   expand, long press to open the app. That's where I've come down on. Because all of the

00:04:35   good stuff is behind the long press. I've definitely come down on the idea that it's

00:04:44   the wrong way around. That a tap on the dynamic island should do whatever is happening within

00:04:49   the dynamic island and then a long tap to reopen the app. Because hey, if I want a tap

00:04:54   to open an app, I already know how to do that. I just tap on the app icon. Right? It doesn't

00:05:01   need to be a quick launcher for me. It should be doing whatever it's doing as like the multitasking

00:05:06   as its primary thing. And something Neil was talking a lot about was like, in all of the

00:05:11   ads, they're showing like the Dynamic Island doing its thing. Like that's what they're

00:05:16   promoting. So that should be the primary interaction, not the secondary one.

00:05:20   Agree. I thought so. And reading the reviews before using the phone and now using the phone,

00:05:25   I agree even more. It just feels backwards.

00:05:29   I really hope that they add it as an option at least, but we'll see.

00:05:34   I also just wanted to voice a grumble with the iPhone 14's camera.

00:05:40   A grumble.

00:05:41   Because I'm not super mad about this, but it's just like, it's frustrating sometimes.

00:05:45   The macro lens switchover is happening so much more.

00:05:49   It's because they changed the focal length, right?

00:05:51   The focal length has changed.

00:05:52   So now, photos where I just take a picture of something, which is relatively close but

00:05:57   not super close, is changing over to the macro lens all the time.

00:06:02   You can toggle it off and do the thing and maybe move the phone and focus.

00:06:05   You know it is better now the ultra wide is better and blah blah blah blah blah so like

00:06:09   these macro images are looking better than they ever have etc etc.

00:06:13   Yeah it's just a little bit annoying.

00:06:16   But I'm happy that I have the toggle.

00:06:18   If you've not turned that toggle on in settings by the way I thoroughly recommend it.

00:06:22   This is the thing that we were like, on this show especially, we were really asking for

00:06:26   like because they didn't have it.

00:06:28   Do you remember that?

00:06:28   They didn't have it for a while.

00:06:29   - It would just switch on its own.

00:06:30   It's like, I got nothing to do.

00:06:31   - And you had to like do a bunch of stuff

00:06:33   to get it to stop.

00:06:34   So if you have an iPhone 14 Pro,

00:06:37   I recommend enabling that feature.

00:06:40   But you know, for quick photos or something,

00:06:43   like it's fine that I don't care what setting it's on.

00:06:45   If I'm just like snapping something for later,

00:06:48   like I'm taking a picture of something,

00:06:49   I need to look at it.

00:06:50   Like for example, a wifi code or whatever.

00:06:53   But if I'm, I don't always want the macro mode

00:06:55   for all things.

00:06:58   So that's that.

00:06:58   I have one more thing.

00:06:59   Do you remember my iPhone 13?

00:07:01   That was all scratched.

00:07:02   Do you remember that?

00:07:03   We spoke about this on the show a bunch of times

00:07:04   and Apple refused to replace it under my Apple Care.

00:07:09   Remember this?

00:07:09   - I do.

00:07:10   I do remember it.

00:07:12   - Would you believe guys that I dropped my iPhone 13 Pro

00:07:16   and broke the screen?

00:07:17   - Oh, what a- - Could you imagine?

00:07:18   - Oh, you did?

00:07:19   - Oh man. - Yeah, I dropped it.

00:07:22   I dropped it like four times and it was perfectly fine.

00:07:25   One of those, like two of those times,

00:07:29   I dropped it onto a corner of a piece of furniture

00:07:31   and it survived.

00:07:32   And I was like, incredible iPhone 13 Pro,

00:07:35   you're doing your job.

00:07:37   And then I dropped it onto something metal,

00:07:39   which was like so unlucky

00:07:40   that I dropped it like five times in a row.

00:07:42   - Very unlucky.

00:07:44   - And the screen broke way more

00:07:47   than I would have necessarily wanted it to, but it broke.

00:07:51   And so now I have done an Apple Care Express replacement

00:07:55   thing, so they're sending a box to me

00:07:56   and I'm gonna put it in the box and send it away.

00:07:58   And apparently it will cost 25 pounds,

00:08:01   which is cheaper than I was expecting.

00:08:02   So we'll see what happens there.

00:08:03   'Cause I thought it was 75, but I don't know.

00:08:06   I'll let you know how that goes.

00:08:07   But just as a long-term piece of follow up,

00:08:09   my iPhone 13 Pro accidentally broke.

00:08:12   - As someone who's never broken a phone,

00:08:15   I'm very curious on how that repair goes for you.

00:08:18   - Yeah, for sure.

00:08:20   I have no experience with it.

00:08:22   It was one of those things where, for some reason,

00:08:24   I had forgotten--

00:08:25   I don't know why, but my brain was--

00:08:27   because it broke.

00:08:28   And it also-- the screen is completely unresponsive.

00:08:32   It basically put a hole in the screen.

00:08:34   This accident will drop.

00:08:35   And so I can't do anything on the phone, which is funny.

00:08:39   It's like I can't erase it, because the phone was also off.

00:08:43   So I can't put in a code so it won't connect to any wife.

00:08:46   Whatever.

00:08:47   Like, I don't care.

00:08:49   It's just a silly thing that happened.

00:08:50   But there was like a part of my brain

00:08:53   which forgot that like the glass and the screen are one thing.

00:08:59   That you don't just replace the glass,

00:09:01   you replace the entire thing and the glass

00:09:02   has a screen attached to it.

00:09:05   I don't know why my brain couldn't work that out,

00:09:07   but it was silly of me really.

00:09:10   Silly to drop it, you know?

00:09:12   I'm sorry you had an accident.

00:09:14   It was terrible.

00:09:15   This show is being recorded on Wednesday, September 28th.

00:09:19   That means it's almost the end of the month

00:09:22   and we are winding down our fundraiser for St. Jude.

00:09:26   September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

00:09:29   And so every month we talk about the life-saving work

00:09:32   of St. Jude, which is a cancer hospital

00:09:34   and research institution that treats kids with cancer

00:09:38   without regard to their family's ability to pay.

00:09:41   That means treatment, travel, food, lodging.

00:09:44   It's all covered by the donations

00:09:46   that people make to St. Jude.

00:09:47   And as we record this, we have raised this year $540,000

00:09:52   for the kids of St. Jude, which is absolutely spectacular.

00:09:57   That's over $2 million in the last four years,

00:10:02   which is just simply incredible.

00:10:04   The campaign is gonna close on Friday, September 30th.

00:10:08   Myke and I are gonna be hosting the closing ceremonies

00:10:10   where we closed down the fundraising.

00:10:14   If you have a community fundraiser,

00:10:18   which like almost 300 people have done,

00:10:20   those will stay open until noon Eastern on Monday.

00:10:24   So you have the weekend,

00:10:24   if you're fundraising on your own to wrap that up.

00:10:27   But just a huge thank you to everyone who has given,

00:10:31   who has done fundraising themselves,

00:10:34   who has talked about this on social media

00:10:35   or people in real life.

00:10:36   It's been a really awesome month

00:10:38   for the Relay FM community to come together around this.

00:10:41   - Yeah, it's been incredible.

00:10:43   Passing that $2 million raised over the last four years

00:10:46   was an incredible thing to have achieved together.

00:10:50   And we've raised just a staggering amount of money this year

00:10:53   and we're all so proud and it goes a long way

00:10:57   and it does a lot.

00:10:57   - This episode of Connected is made possible by Rogue Amoeba.

00:11:03   You're hearing my voice right now

00:11:05   because I'm using a bunch of Rogue Amoeba software.

00:11:07   We'll get to that in a minute.

00:11:10   But Rogue Amoeba Software is celebrating

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00:11:43   that honestly should have just been built in to macOS.

00:11:46   I've used AudioHijack every podcast I've recorded

00:11:50   for like 10 years.

00:11:52   It is amazingly powerful.

00:11:54   The UI is really cool where you can move these blocks around

00:11:58   and the signal will flow through them

00:12:00   and you can see exactly what it's doing

00:12:01   in a really visual way.

00:12:03   All of Rogue Amoeba's apps look incredible,

00:12:06   super well-designed, super easy to use.

00:12:10   You know, sound routing stuff, it can be complicated,

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00:12:16   I seriously could not do my job without their applications.

00:12:20   Now look, Rogue Amoeba doesn't run

00:12:21   constant gimmicky sales or discounts.

00:12:24   They charge fair prices all the time.

00:12:26   But in celebration of their anniversary,

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00:12:37   There's no coupon code, there's no special URL, just go to MacAudio.com to

00:12:43   save 20% on anything they make. This deal is only valid to the end of September so

00:12:48   it's nearly over. You can download free trials and then buy online to receive

00:12:52   the discounted price. A big congratulations to Rogamiba on 20 great

00:12:57   years visit them at Mac audio.com now before the offer ends. Thanks to

00:13:02   Rogan Mieba for their support of the show and Relay FM. Time to get ultra.

00:13:06   Big boy. Big orange watch boy. Big wrist Steven over here. My wrist is

00:13:13   170 millimeters I don't know if that's big or not. Y'all know your wrist sizes?

00:13:17   I've never considered it because I've never had a watch where I needed to

00:13:21   measure my... For me it's not something I've had to really consider either and I

00:13:26   I had to go find Mary's like fabric tape measure.

00:13:30   So it's like super bendy and one side was inches,

00:13:33   the other side was millimeters.

00:13:35   So anyways, I got my Apple Watch Ultra on its launch day,

00:13:38   which was last Friday.

00:13:39   So I've had it four or five days

00:13:42   and I thought I could walk through

00:13:44   some of my early impressions

00:13:46   and answer any questions y'all may have.

00:13:48   - I do have lots of questions, so.

00:13:50   - Okay. (laughs)

00:13:52   Let me start with the unboxing.

00:13:53   Do y'all remember in the early days of the Apple Watch,

00:13:56   Like I had like the series zero stainless steel.

00:13:58   My first Apple watch was stainless steel.

00:14:00   Remember the box that those nice watches came in?

00:14:03   They were like cube shaped

00:14:05   and they're like glossy white plastic.

00:14:07   Do you have that ring of bell to anybody?

00:14:10   - Yes.

00:14:11   Yeah, the additions used to come packaged like that.

00:14:13   - Okay.

00:14:14   So the Ultra doesn't come in a box like that,

00:14:18   but it does come in some pretty unique packaging.

00:14:20   - My ceramic one came in a plastic box.

00:14:23   It wasn't square.

00:14:24   it was long, but it wasn't the paper boxes.

00:14:28   It came in like a special thing.

00:14:29   - Should have come in a ceramic box.

00:14:31   - That would be quite expensive.

00:14:34   - So for a while now,

00:14:35   the Apple Watch and bands have come separately

00:14:38   and they're just kind of like wrapped together.

00:14:40   The Ultra follows suit with that,

00:14:42   but the boxes are bigger and the inside print,

00:14:45   instead of like colorful watch bands,

00:14:47   I think because I have the Alpine band,

00:14:49   had like a rugged mountain scene.

00:14:51   And I think the interior printing is different

00:14:53   depending on what band you get.

00:14:55   But really nice box.

00:14:57   It comes with this booklet that shows you all the features

00:15:00   of the watch is like all color printed,

00:15:02   like really big images of the watch.

00:15:04   Just a very nice experience.

00:15:06   Definitely nicer than I've had on Apple Watch

00:15:08   in a long time.

00:15:10   After the unboxing though,

00:15:11   it's kind of funny how straightforward the setup was.

00:15:14   Like it works like any other Apple Watch, right?

00:15:16   I said, yeah, you know, take my old one,

00:15:19   move it to the new one.

00:15:20   In the setup process,

00:15:21   there was an additional step where you could set

00:15:24   what the action button does.

00:15:26   And that can be changed later in the watch app on iOS.

00:15:31   And you have a bunch of different options.

00:15:33   You can tie it to a workout.

00:15:35   You can have it run a shortcut, which I tried,

00:15:37   but shortcuts are so slow to execute on watchOS.

00:15:41   I kind of gave up on that.

00:15:42   And I just have mine set to the flashlight.

00:15:44   So I can light up the sky with my 2000 nit brightness

00:15:48   Apple watch if I need to.

00:15:48   - Do you do this a lot?

00:15:51   I didn't know what else to, so let me read you the list.

00:15:53   Okay, and I think you'll see where.

00:15:55   - All right, all right, all right.

00:15:56   - Okay, so workout, stopwatch, waypoint,

00:16:01   backtrack, dive, flashlight, shortcut, and none.

00:16:06   - Why is that to none?

00:16:07   - I feel like flashlight was the most useful.

00:16:09   Maybe none.

00:16:10   - None sounds good.

00:16:11   - And you can, you hold it and press.

00:16:13   - Then it's a fidget toy.

00:16:14   - Yeah, it is.

00:16:15   You hold it and press to do the siren.

00:16:16   So you can just click and it does whatever action

00:16:18   you tied into it.

00:16:19   - Oh.

00:16:20   would be much more interesting if shortcuts were just faster on the watch, but they are not.

00:16:24   Yeah, I mean, I don't know what I would go with. And you can use it in some apps to do things,

00:16:31   right? Like, it's tied to actions inside of applications too, right? So you can,

00:16:38   if you're in the workout app and you press it, it like does a new workout or like splits the

00:16:43   workout or something, right? Right? Yes, but I don't think I've seen it in action anywhere else.

00:16:49   It's just the workouts app right now and maybe that'll change with time. I think developers can do something

00:16:54   But obviously no one's ready for that

00:16:56   Yeah, and is the developer gonna take time to build support for a button that's on one watch? Yeah, but yes, right if this were

00:17:04   Everywhere and we could talk about that a minute

00:17:07   Like what?

00:17:08   Will the regular Apple watch inherit from this watch in the future?

00:17:11   The action button would be the top of my list for that. Obviously the biggest question here is size, right? It's a 49 millimeter case

00:17:18   It's just one size there. It does not have the smaller and larger sizes like the regular series 8 does

00:17:24   It's as big as I could go. I think again on my hundred and seventy millimeter wrist, you know watch size

00:17:31   I think is something that's obviously very subjective

00:17:33   like I was talking to a friend of mine last week before I got the ultra and like he

00:17:38   Wears an Apple watch basically only when he runs and he had just gotten a new watch to where the rest of you know

00:17:45   The rest of his life and he actually went smaller than what he had before so people just have different feelings on this

00:17:51   The size works for me. But again, I don't think I could go any bigger. I

00:17:56   Will say if you're wearing like long sleeves like today

00:17:58   I'm wearing a jacket like you definitely notice it more than the other watches because of the size and I think because

00:18:05   the edges aren't that sort of

00:18:10   Rounded shape right so like your sleeve doesn't like glide over the crown as easily because it's got the big crown guard and the other side

00:18:17   Is flat like you're just a little bit more aware of its presence. Maybe that will fade with time

00:18:22   On it like a little bit a little bit

00:18:26   I think it depends on like like these sleeves

00:18:28   I'm wearing on this jacket have a little elastic in them and like I kind of had to like kind of pull it over it

00:18:33   But right my guess is that that will become more normal with time like right now

00:18:39   I'm very aware that it's bigger than my old Apple watch was

00:18:43   Now in six months will I think that probably not like my brain will just adjust to this is what the Apple watch is

00:18:49   But there is a little bit of a curve I think in getting used to the size

00:18:54   But I'll say it's mostly about the size. It's not about the weight

00:18:57   I mean everyone said this in the hands-on of their reviews and I'll echo it. It is not as heavy as

00:19:02   it

00:19:03   looks and I did not I meant to and I just ran out of time but I

00:19:07   Meant to weigh my old watch with this one because my old ones also titanium

00:19:11   It feels like it is heavier than my old watch but not by as much as it should be based on the size

00:19:18   I don't know what they've done there, but you look at it or you see pictures of it online

00:19:22   You think my gosh like that must be like a boat anchor

00:19:25   It's really not and I think the titanium goes a long way to that because the titanium is way lighter

00:19:31   Than the steel Apple watch even in the same size and it's one of the benefits of the materials they've chosen

00:19:36   Could do you think you could wear this with like a collared shut? I think so

00:19:41   Okay

00:19:43   It may have to be a little like fur, you know

00:19:45   I think you just be aware of getting the you know sleeve around it if the sleeve like buttons or you know

00:19:52   If you're wearing like a sports coat or something, I think it would be okay, but I think you would

00:19:56   Use be more aware of it than you would any previous watch

00:20:00   So I just looked this up the 45 millimeter stainless steel the series 8 is

00:20:06   51.5 grams

00:20:09   The ultra is sixty one point three grams. So it's even heavier than the steel

00:20:14   I guess the size helps it not feel as dense. I don't know. It's a weird trick

00:20:18   They've pulled off here that it doesn't feel as heavy. Yeah as you think it would I can't see the titanium

00:20:23   In that they don't have that information how much the titanium weighs just on their website. I'm sure we could find it but

00:20:30   Yeah, it's heavier than steel. The design, I like the titanium. I liked the titanium

00:20:36   Apple watch before I had a pick or risky or no is a flexi of like Apple moving to titanium

00:20:43   on the side rails of the phone. I still think they should do that. But the texture like

00:20:47   the finish is really different. The old titanium watches were brushed titanium. And you could

00:20:52   see without I mean that close to it, you could see the brush marks in it and it looked really

00:20:57   nice. This watch, the finish is not dissimilar from the aluminum, like silver

00:21:03   aluminum Apple watch where it's kind of that bead blasted smooth look. It doesn't

00:21:08   look like aluminum, like the color is a little bit warmer, but it is not brushed.

00:21:12   It is sort of the satin finish that I think actually looks really nice with

00:21:16   this design. I think if they had done the brushed it would have maybe

00:21:20   been a bit too busy, and so it works for me the sort of flat matte look. You

00:21:26   know, it diffuses light, it doesn't really have any strong reflections off of any

00:21:30   of the metal. I think it's really nice. I think some people have have wanted it

00:21:35   wanted Apple to have a darker version of this and I think that would be cool in

00:21:39   the future. I know nothing about, you know, how you would color titanium like I

00:21:44   don't know if it could be anodized like aluminum is, but at least with the raw

00:21:48   titanium if I had to get a big gouge in it you're not gonna see a different

00:21:52   color like poking out from underneath because it should be the same finish

00:21:55   basically all the way through. And so I can see from a longevity, like roughness perspective,

00:22:01   why Apple wouldn't want to do any colors unless the metal was colored all the way through.

00:22:06   But if they had a dark one in the future, I think a lot of people would dig that.

00:22:09   Is it comfortable to wear?

00:22:11   It is for me. I mean, it sits squarely on my wrist. You know, the lugs don't overhang the

00:22:19   sides of my wrist. I think again like it's all about wrist size. I do tend to wear my

00:22:24   watch pretty close to like that bone that's at the end of your wrist like at your hand.

00:22:30   You guys know what I'm talking about?

00:22:31   The little bump?

00:22:32   Yeah.

00:22:33   The bumpy bone?

00:22:34   The bumpy bone?

00:22:35   The bumpy bone.

00:22:36   Yeah.

00:22:37   You definitely want it below that like if it's on top of that I think because the size

00:22:42   kind of sits up on it in a little bit of a weird way.

00:22:44   So you want it to the to the to like the left of the bumpy bone?

00:22:47   Yeah, like the inside, like away from the hand.

00:22:49   Vidit in Discord has said like the titanium was 45.1 grams in the series 7.

00:22:55   Okay.

00:22:56   So that's quite a difference.

00:22:59   Yeah.

00:23:00   61 grams to 45.

00:23:02   Yeah, it doesn't feel like it's that big of a difference.

00:23:04   Yeah.

00:23:05   Pretty wild.

00:23:06   I mean, I'm sure it's like your brain would tell you it would be bigger.

00:23:09   Yeah.

00:23:09   Like, would by looking at the thing.

00:23:11   What do you think of the Crown Guard?

00:23:13   I think it's fine.

00:23:15   Like it's kind, I mean, it's definitely like the sore spot on the design.

00:23:20   It looks tacked on in a way that I didn't really anticipate,

00:23:25   but I've gotten used to it pretty quickly.

00:23:28   I mean, I like that the crown is sort of flush with it.

00:23:33   It's like the most prominent the side button has ever been,

00:23:37   which is funny to me because the side button like

00:23:39   it's it's had so many jobs over the years.

00:23:42   Remember at first it was like the circle of friends thing.

00:23:44   It's weird.

00:23:47   But it is...

00:23:48   Oh my god, yeah.

00:23:49   It's fine.

00:23:50   You know, it definitely makes it a bit more distinctive than the standard Apple Watch.

00:23:55   Can we talk about the display?

00:23:56   Yes, please.

00:23:57   The thing that I have been struck with the most for the many people I follow online who

00:24:02   have gotten one of these, so I was actually quite surprised how many people I'm seeing

00:24:06   post their wrist photos with their Apple Watch Ultras.

00:24:12   The flat display is the thing that I find to be the most visually attractive about this.

00:24:20   To me I think it's just because it's different. Like it's visually very different from the

00:24:25   odd Apple watches. And I just want to know like, what do you think? Do you like it? How

00:24:30   is it to use it? And also like what is that, the like the lip around the edge? Like how

00:24:36   does it feel to use?

00:24:37   The lip is so minor that if I didn't know it was slightly raised by feeling that you

00:24:44   can't really tell that it's raised.

00:24:46   I mean it is, the glass is not sunken into the metal in any really perceptible way.

00:24:53   It's very minor.

00:24:54   I really like the flat look though.

00:24:56   I mean obviously the screen is bigger.

00:24:58   I think the flat display makes the screen look even bigger than it would otherwise.

00:25:03   And all in all, like it's definitely the nicest screen on an Apple Watch.

00:25:08   I like the, the flatness gives it sort of that modern feel like we've seen on some of

00:25:14   Apple's other devices.

00:25:16   And it doesn't do the thing that like, I think the Series 7 in particular, for me was kind

00:25:22   of annoying at like the, you get like reflections and like light scattering around the edges

00:25:29   of the display where it curved down.

00:25:32   obviously you don't have any of that here because the screen is flat and then it's surrounded

00:25:35   by metal and so it's just a cleaner look. It's less organic looking for sure but I really

00:25:44   like it.

00:25:45   It's aggressive the design I think but I don't think that's a bad thing. You know like especially

00:25:49   like watch design. Watches get pretty bold. You know like sharp edges and big and chunky

00:25:56   and stuff like I think it works visually it's but the using watch OS on that screen does

00:26:05   it feel any any different like really no okay watch OS suffers from this I think even worse

00:26:12   than iOS and iPad OS do where it doesn't really do anything to take advantage of the bigger

00:26:18   screen everything is mostly just scaled up that's most noticeable I think on the watch

00:26:23   faces like we can talk about that separately in a second but like the

00:26:28   modular watch face that I used on my series 7 like I don't get any extra

00:26:31   stuff with it on the new watch everything just a little bit bigger the

00:26:35   space between everything's a little bit bigger I don't think it looks bad like I

00:26:39   don't think it looks comical like like say the way the the way the home screen

00:26:46   grid looks on the iPad mini right it's like so bad and so awkward I don't think

00:26:51   there's anything that stands out there in a hugely negative sense but I do

00:26:58   wonder if Apple can get away with watchOS basically just scaling forever

00:27:05   or will there be at some point something different they do with this larger

00:27:10   screen you know I get that it's the first one I get also that watchOS 9S

00:27:14   support a pretty wide range of screen sizes and so just scaling it up and down

00:27:21   is probably the easiest thing for them and their developers but it definitely

00:27:24   leaves a little bit to be desired like you have this nice big screen and you

00:27:28   can basically see the same amount of stuff as you do on a on a smaller watch.

00:27:34   Yeah it kind of we'll talk about watchOS in a minute but it kind of feels like

00:27:38   WatchOS 9 in general has had some redesign work done to it to like take

00:27:45   advantage of screen space, which I think they maybe did that for the Ultra,

00:27:52   but the other watches get it too, so it kind of doesn't really feel like you

00:27:54   have any particular benefit. Right. I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, and I mean

00:27:59   yeah, if you're reading a text message I guess you can see some more lines of text.

00:28:02   I haven't actually compared it directly to my Series 7, but in using it it feels

00:28:07   very much like the same experience just everything's a little bit bigger a

00:28:10   little bit more spaced out. You mentioned watch faces. Yeah. What one are you using?

00:28:15   So right now I've just brought my modular face over from the Series 7. There

00:28:22   is a face that's specific to this watch called Wayfinder. Yeah it looks cool. It

00:28:27   does look cool and you can adjust it where it works a little bit better in

00:28:31   always on mode and of course it has the deal where you rotate the crown and it's

00:28:35   all red so like protects your night vision if you're out stargazing or

00:28:39   something. I have a lot of questions why other Apple watch faces didn't get that

00:28:42   like couldn't they just do that without updating all the other watch faces like

00:28:46   just apply some sort of filter to it I don't know it's weird that's not there

00:28:50   my problem with Wayfinder is my problem basically with a lot of Apple's watch

00:28:54   faces where I don't really care for the curved complication type because a lot

00:29:00   of things just don't do well curve like Carrotweather's got a bunch of

00:29:04   complications and I think it works pretty well. I can have like a little

00:29:06   graph of high and low. To do is I get a little bar you know showing how many

00:29:11   things I have back. But then if I want to see calendar events like they got to

00:29:16   basically be one word long or they get truncated and that's true for a bunch of

00:29:20   Apple watch faces where the complications are around the outside.

00:29:22   And I've kind of just given up on getting one of those really the way that I like

00:29:27   it and I like having you know my computer watch be a little bit more

00:29:32   computery so I think modular is gonna be gonna be it I mean it feels like you

00:29:37   could just complain about watch OS watch faces forever right yeah like it's like

00:29:43   a constant thing have you like that night vision red mode thing on the

00:29:48   Wayfinder do you have any particular thought like is it like good I mean it

00:29:54   it's cool I guess yeah my bigger question is like why didn't they do it

00:29:58   everywhere, like if it's this really important feature.

00:30:01   - Yeah, well, I mean, clearly you're just not doing enough

00:30:03   extreme things, so.

00:30:05   - I know.

00:30:06   - If you did more extreme things, you would way find

00:30:07   and if you were way finding, you could more extremely

00:30:10   look at it in the dark.

00:30:12   - It's true.

00:30:13   - You got a band too though, right?

00:30:15   Which band did you get?

00:30:16   - I got the orange Alpine band, which is the one

00:30:20   with the loops on the outside and has this titanium,

00:30:23   like kind of S hook, actually it looks like a six

00:30:26   now that I'm looking at it and the hook

00:30:27   is all on the outside, is awesome.

00:30:30   The band's really comfortable, it's really lightweight.

00:30:33   It's easy to find, 'cause like the little loops

00:30:36   are pretty close to each other,

00:30:37   so it's easy to find one that fits well for you.

00:30:39   But it's definitely a little--

00:30:40   - It's easy to put on.

00:30:42   - It's not the easiest Well-Watched band to put on.

00:30:45   - But you don't, it makes sense though,

00:30:47   'cause it's meant to stay on, right?

00:30:50   I feel like these bands are a little different

00:30:52   to the other ones, so for like, no, this is purpose.

00:30:55   Like this one is like meant to hold on

00:30:58   when you're climbing up a mountain.

00:30:59   - Right.

00:31:00   - That's what it's for.

00:31:01   - Yeah, I don't, I can't really imagine

00:31:03   what I would be doing where this watch band

00:31:05   accidentally comes undone.

00:31:09   Right, like I think it would take my arm with it

00:31:11   before the band came undone.

00:31:14   I do have the black and gray trail loop,

00:31:17   which is like basically like the sports,

00:31:21   like the Velcro one.

00:31:23   I got one of those on order

00:31:24   because like the downside of this band is,

00:31:26   and I mean, I like orange, like bright orange,

00:31:28   but it's really noticeable.

00:31:30   I'd like to have something that tones it down a little bit,

00:31:32   but that doesn't ship until November.

00:31:34   So I just have this for a while, but it looks great.

00:31:38   And it is, once you kind of get the hang of how to put it on,

00:31:42   you can do it relatively quickly.

00:31:44   It just took me a couple of days to like work out,

00:31:46   okay, what little spot do I want to put it in?

00:31:48   And how do I manage it?

00:31:51   It's, and it's comfortable.

00:31:54   Like it's basically everything that touches you is sort of,

00:31:57   it's not canvas, but it's kind of like a rid,

00:32:01   like a ridged material.

00:32:04   I don't know, it's hard to,

00:32:06   it's very different from any other watch band

00:32:07   I've had from Apple, I'll say that.

00:32:10   And it definitely completes the look.

00:32:12   And I think it's one reason,

00:32:14   I should have said this at the beginning,

00:32:15   is it the first time in a long time

00:32:17   that someone has come up to me and said,

00:32:19   "Oh, is that the new one?"

00:32:20   like referencing an Apple product in my possession.

00:32:23   I mean, I think the last time was like the iPhone 10 maybe.

00:32:28   And I think the bright orange band honestly

00:32:30   has more to do with it than the size.

00:32:31   And-

00:32:32   - I mean, the whole thing screams different, right?

00:32:35   - Yeah.

00:32:36   - Like it's very visually different.

00:32:39   It's interesting like to me, like when I see,

00:32:41   considering that it does share so many things

00:32:44   with the other watches from like a design language,

00:32:47   it is surprising just how different a product it looks.

00:32:51   Does that make sense?

00:32:52   I mean, you tell me, does that make sense

00:32:53   what I said based on your experience?

00:32:55   - Yeah, I think so.

00:32:56   And I think with orange kind of being like the product,

00:33:00   like if anyone's seen a photo of this

00:33:01   just like float by on Facebook,

00:33:03   it was probably the one with the orange band, right?

00:33:05   It's the image Apple's using.

00:33:07   And so, again, it definitely just draws more attention to it.

00:33:11   And I think that's kind of funny.

00:33:13   Like, this has been a while since I've had that happen,

00:33:15   especially repeatedly, like over the weekend.

00:33:19   So I got it Friday afternoon,

00:33:20   I wore it Saturday to a football game,

00:33:24   Sunday to church, Sunday to some family stuff.

00:33:27   And even like last night I saw some people

00:33:30   and they're like, "Oh, is that the new one?"

00:33:32   Like, "Yep, yep, it is."

00:33:33   And I think the orange,

00:33:35   like the bold orange is probably what gives it away,

00:33:37   at least from across the room.

00:33:39   And I really like this band,

00:33:41   but I'm also looking forward to kind of dressing it down

00:33:44   little bit with the black grey trail loop. Now I have not tried the ocean water band

00:33:51   which at least in the yellow looks like a bunch of like noodles stuck together.

00:33:56   Yeah it's a weird one.

00:34:01   Yeah I do...

00:34:01   The colors are good like the yellow is nice.

00:34:03   The yellow is nice. I think the white looks pretty sharp.

00:34:07   Don't know about yellow and orange though that feels not good. Like the orange is always there.

00:34:12   I think the white looks pretty sharp.

00:34:15   Those you can actually, at least here,

00:34:16   you can get them next day.

00:34:19   So I may end up picking one of those up to try.

00:34:21   I would like to compare the three of them at some point,

00:34:24   but again, it's not till November

00:34:26   when the trail loop shows up.

00:34:28   And so maybe later in the year,

00:34:30   I can review the three of them side by side.

00:34:33   I did try a standard, you know,

00:34:37   large Apple watch band on it.

00:34:40   And it works, like it clips in and it's fine,

00:34:42   but it definitely looks a little too narrow for my taste.

00:34:46   You could do it.

00:34:47   Say that I wanted to wear this someplace nice

00:34:49   before the darker band shows up,

00:34:51   like I would put a dark band on it and it would be fine.

00:34:55   The other way around, I think works about as well.

00:34:59   Like you can put this band on a Series 7.

00:35:02   Like it's fine.

00:35:04   It's a little bit weird.

00:35:07   - I mean, there are a bunch of bands

00:35:08   that don't have metallic lugs and you can use all those like the all the loops

00:35:15   yeah yeah don't have metallic the the magnetic one which I love I recommend

00:35:20   that to anyone by the way if you want a nice-looking well functional watch band

00:35:25   the magnetic loop is your friend yeah now you can wear all those right and but

00:35:29   yeah I know what you mean that it would be strange it's like I thought about

00:35:32   like do I want any of these but now like no I'm not gonna put the silver lugs on

00:35:36   my gold watch. That's just weird.

00:35:38   More power to you if you do it, but that's not my thing.

00:35:42   - Yeah, the lug mismatch, I don't like mismatched metals.

00:35:46   I don't mind if like the lug is blue or black,

00:35:49   you know, that plasticky, whatever material Apple uses.

00:35:52   I agree with you.

00:35:53   I think metal mismatch on the lugs is a deal breaker for me.

00:35:57   You know, I saw some people trying it on their steel bands,

00:36:00   which I think Apple still sells.

00:36:01   I've actually never seen one of those in person,

00:36:04   I don't think, or at least I've never handled one.

00:36:06   That kind of works.

00:36:08   It'd be kind of cool if Apple had a titanium version of that

00:36:10   that matched, but they seem to have basically forgotten

00:36:14   that that band exists.

00:36:16   - Do you sleep track?

00:36:18   - I do.

00:36:18   - Could you sleep with this on?

00:36:20   - You definitely noticed the size.

00:36:22   - I can't worry about you moving your arm

00:36:26   and just giving Mary big bros on the side of the hips.

00:36:29   - She made some exact jokes.

00:36:30   She's like, "Keep that thing away from me."

00:36:32   (laughing)

00:36:33   it's not as comfortable to sleep in as the smaller like the Series 7. What I've

00:36:38   considered doing is... I cannot believe I'm gonna say this...

00:36:43   Daywatch Nightwatch! Daywatch Nightwatch! Daywatch Nightwatch! The Series 7 I have on like the

00:36:49   velcro fabric-y band, it's really comfortable. Uh-huh. It's obviously smaller

00:36:54   like it also is rounded off like it doesn't have the weird protrusion on the

00:36:59   side so I don't know like it's um I haven't gone through with that yet but I

00:37:04   think that's where I may end up like look we haven't talked about like the

00:37:06   battery life on this watch is oh yeah wild so yesterday I I was up early

00:37:14   yesterday put the watch on first thing worked all day like you know in the

00:37:19   office around the house etc yesterday afternoon I'm pulling it up in fitness I

00:37:24   I went for a 2.77 mile walk.

00:37:29   So I walked for just under an hour, came home, had dinner,

00:37:34   was going to bed.

00:37:35   We were going to bed and Mary's watch,

00:37:37   which is the small series seven hit low power mode,

00:37:42   you know, like the 10% thing.

00:37:44   'Cause she had worked out for about half an hour

00:37:45   that morning and it was in school all day.

00:37:47   And I swiped mine up and control center said

00:37:49   I had 74% battery life remaining.

00:37:51   (laughing)

00:37:53   - Oh my God.

00:37:54   - It doesn't make any sense relative to what we know

00:37:59   about Apple Watch batteries.

00:38:01   Like it's just, it's really, really funny.

00:38:06   - That's monster.

00:38:07   - Yeah, so like I could sleep in it

00:38:09   and I think I'd get like two or three days pretty easily.

00:38:11   If we were going away for a weekend,

00:38:12   like we were going camping,

00:38:13   I wouldn't even bring an Apple Watch charger,

00:38:15   like it would be fine.

00:38:16   - Especially when they bring out that like,

00:38:19   that wild thing that it does.

00:38:22   and it says that it should triple the battery life.

00:38:26   So there was actually some information from this.

00:38:28   It was either in MKBHD or I just need to review

00:38:30   'cause Apple didn't really give any information

00:38:32   but I think I heard it there, Link.

00:38:35   So battery optimization coming later this year

00:38:38   and basically what it does is it's pinging GPS

00:38:42   and the heart rate sensors less often.

00:38:44   In doing that, it should triple the battery life

00:38:47   and should get you around 60 hours of battery life.

00:38:50   (laughing)

00:38:52   See what I mean?

00:38:53   Like, there's no reference to like this battery life

00:38:56   and other Apple watches.

00:38:57   It's so far beyond.

00:38:59   And so if I was sleeping with like the series seven on

00:39:01   would really just be about the comfort level,

00:39:04   not about anything else.

00:39:06   And that's probably what I'll end up doing because,

00:39:09   you know, trade in on Apple watches is bad

00:39:12   and selling them like, you know, you can do it,

00:39:15   but you're also gonna take a bath and it's titanium.

00:39:18   Like it's a nice watch.

00:39:19   I probably would just hold onto it

00:39:20   for sleep tracking purposes, but it's--

00:39:24   Well, also like, you might not wanna wear the ultra

00:39:27   if you're going for a nice meal.

00:39:28   Sure, yeah.

00:39:30   Right?

00:39:30   But I'm also one that I won't,

00:39:31   like if Mary and I were going out,

00:39:34   like I probably would wear a traditional watch anyways.

00:39:37   Or a real watch, yeah.

00:39:39   Like my calculator watch.

00:39:40   Like a gentleman.

00:39:41   But it's--

00:39:42   A Casio calculator, like a real gentleman.

00:39:45   Tell them, yeah.

00:39:46   Let me open the door for you

00:39:47   and calculate our tip on my wrist.

00:39:49   So I have two final questions. Okay, yeah, if you want to say more you can but these are my two last questions

00:39:53   And it's like I'll ask both at the same time. Are you gonna keep it? Why are you gonna keep it?

00:39:58   I am keeping it because

00:40:00   Despite some of the weirdness around the size and like I'm basically committing to new bands even that I don't have to commit to new bands

00:40:07   I really like it. I like the size. I like the I mean look I am

00:40:15   Swearily in the like crosshairs of Apple's marketing for this thing. We're like, yeah, like I work out I do outdoor activities

00:40:22   But I'm not like an ultra marathon or where this watch doesn't really meet my needs

00:40:25   Right, like a lot of that what this watch can do it is totally aspirational for my level of fitness and activity

00:40:31   But I like sort of the lifestyle side of it, right? I like kind of what the watch says and

00:40:38   The size works for me like if this had been too big I would I was not going to force the issue because I didn't

00:40:44   want to wear a watch it was like hanging over my wrist and like banging into

00:40:47   things and again I think I'm just just within the parameters for the size if

00:40:55   this watch were 51 millimeters or 52 millimeters I don't think I could pull

00:41:00   it off but I feel like the size works for me I like the features and I like the

00:41:07   way it looks and so for me it will be it'll be sticking around even if I never

00:41:12   use it to you know hike across Scotland or whatever underscore is doing this

00:41:16   week I I can't wait for him to talk about that he told me he's gonna write

00:41:20   it up but like yeah I can't wait to hear about his experience maybe we should get

00:41:24   him on the show underscore underscore join us on the show there he's been

00:41:30   asked so I do all of our business I remember I said I wanted to go try one

00:41:37   on I wanted to go to the Apple Store try it on I decided not to do that because

00:41:41   you don't be tempted. I'm worried I'm gonna buy one. Yeah. So I'm not going I'm

00:41:46   not looking I'm not I've refused to look. Adina tried one on I sent Steve a

00:41:50   picture and it's one of the most ridiculous things you've ever seen. It's

00:41:53   like it's like somebody put a watch on a twig it looks hilarious. It's like if I

00:41:57   put a dinner plate on my wrist right like Adina is so petite in this watch I

00:42:01   mean it was I seriously laughed out loud and like it's so funny and not making

00:42:06   fun of Adina like I love Adina to death but this is so not the product for her

00:42:11   she's 5'2 she's like yes and she was buying a series 8 so which she did and

00:42:17   we've been setting up and she's pretty excited about that. Which one did she get?

00:42:20   Starlight okay cuz quote silver it's less boring than silver yeah which is

00:42:26   true I mean she's completely correct I got Mary's seven is starlight cuz I

00:42:31   don't think they I don't think they did like the regular silver in the series

00:42:34   and you can't tell the difference unless it's side by side with a silver watch

00:42:39   and even then you're like maybe I mean it's very it's very subtle yeah I'm

00:42:45   gonna find that image that she sent me and put it in yeah it's hilarious

00:42:50   absolutely hilarious and it's worth it's definitely worth people seeing because

00:42:54   you know it gives you the idea of like if you're if you're like slim five to

00:43:00   like tiny person this probably is not gonna work for you? I mean I don't know

00:43:05   you make your own decision but I don't think it...

00:43:07   Probably not. I need to get

00:43:09   married to try it on. I think it'd be a similar effect but yeah I mean this

00:43:13   watch is an outlier right because of the size because of the look it means that

00:43:19   it's just so people just aren't gonna be able to wear it and yeah and if you're

00:43:23   someone who wears an Apple watch in a lot of different contexts this may not

00:43:27   work, right? So if you go into an office day every day in a suit and tie or like

00:43:32   you know a nice blouse or something like this doesn't dress up as easily as some of the other Apple watches now

00:43:40   That may not be a deal breaker for you and for other people. It's a big deal

00:43:44   Like there's just there's more decisions that go into this watch

00:43:47   Than I feel like there's ever been with the Apple watch before and I think if you are

00:43:53   Interested in it and you can get your hands on one in a store or something like that. I think it's worth

00:43:59   trying it on first because

00:44:02   It unless you're just like just you got, you know, big beefy wrists

00:44:07   Like, you know, you like big watches and like yeah go for it

00:44:10   But if you have any doubt in your mind and it's easy to get your hands on one, I think it's worth

00:44:16   trying that because it is

00:44:20   Surprisingly different from any other Apple watch we've had and we know we've had what two size increases over the years

00:44:26   But there's way more ground

00:44:29   You know way more space between this and the other Apple watches than all the other Apple watches

00:44:35   Combined and I think that's cool

00:44:38   Like I'm glad apples diversified the line and I'm glad like what they did works for me

00:44:44   I think it's I think it's really cool

00:44:45   I really enjoy it, but it does mean that they've built a product that's not for everybody in a way that

00:44:52   we haven't really seen with the Apple Watch. I mean there are people who don't like the Apple Watch and there's people who, you know...

00:44:58   There are people that the big one is already not, like,

00:45:01   what used to be the big one was already not for them because it was too big, you know what I mean?

00:45:04   Yeah. Everybody has their own taste.

00:45:06   Yeah. You could be a tiny five foot two person and want this and wear it and like it and that works for you.

00:45:14   But, you know, you kind of roll your own adventure on that one.

00:45:20   But I think one of the things about this watch is like, as compared to other watches that

00:45:26   exist in the world of this size, is like the Apple Watch, the bands kind of really come

00:45:32   out of the sides and it makes the whole thing look bigger.

00:45:38   Which is just the way they design it.

00:45:39   But like, standard watches don't do that, right?

00:45:43   come down from the lug way more. And maybe actually now Apple probably have some bands

00:45:48   that might work like this. Or maybe you could get a third party band that the lugs are more

00:45:52   detached and it kind of like has a different profile. But it makes the overall thing look

00:45:57   so much larger. I will say with the Alpine band at least I don't think this is true for

00:46:02   the ocean water one. But the Alpine band at least the fabric loops are can't go in any

00:46:09   direction. Yeah. And so for me, yeah, the looks took out a little bit, but then the

00:46:13   band basically goes straight down. I think one of the things that makes the image, which

00:46:17   I've put in the Discord is the show notes of Adina wearing it. She's wearing the Ocean

00:46:21   band, which is definitely, I think, the chunkiest of all of them, right? I think if I try the

00:46:28   Ocean band, it may not work for that reason, but I guess we'll see. So yeah, it's just

00:46:35   factors that go into deciding if the Ultra is right for you. There's also like

00:46:40   price and these other things right but if you were someone who bought you know

00:46:44   a stainless steel or ceramic watch or you're somebody who updates their watch

00:46:49   every three years and you're looking at this one like I think there's also a

00:46:52   longevity angle to this watch not necessarily because it's more rugged or

00:46:55   extreme but like just the battery capacity alone means this watch could

00:47:01   perform really well for years to come as the battery degrades right because

00:47:05   you're starting with so much more battery life than anything else we've

00:47:08   ever had in the Apple Watch and so those are all factors with this and for me it

00:47:13   totally works but I think for a lot of people it may not and that's that's fine

00:47:16   and on the price I am still surprised about the price so like you know the if

00:47:21   you want to get a silver stainless steel with a sport loop the 45 millimeters

00:47:26   seven hundred forty nine dollars yeah this is seven hundred ninety nine

00:47:31   dollars so like I kind of can't believe that it's only fifty dollars more by and

00:47:38   large then a like regular stainless steel one it's not that much of a jump

00:47:43   so if you're in the market for an Apple watch this is definitely in the

00:47:48   conversation now right like and you know let's not fitness shame right like you

00:47:54   don't have to climb a mountain to wear this watch. Like if you just want it, get it. But

00:48:00   maybe it'll be big on you.

00:48:01   Maybe. It's still going to be orange though, which is the best part.

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00:49:48   I wanted to take a moment to talk about watchOS 9.

00:49:52   - Okay.

00:49:53   - I had some thoughts on it that I wanted to share

00:49:55   and maybe kind of fit symbol.

00:49:57   So I mentioned like one of the things I'd noticed

00:50:00   is they've definitely done something to,

00:50:03   oh by the way, go read Alex Guido's review on Mac stories.

00:50:08   - It's fantastic.

00:50:09   - It's very good.

00:50:10   Helps me with understanding all the things that I can do.

00:50:13   So like I have noticed that there are definitely places

00:50:16   in watchOS 9 where they're optimizing for screen space a bit better.

00:50:23   Like the banner notifications are one of these, right?

00:50:27   Like if you're using the watch, if the watch is active, notifications

00:50:33   now appear as a banner rather than taking up the entire screen,

00:50:36   which I definitely prefer.

00:50:38   Yeah, I think that's pretty nice.

00:50:40   It got ran the watchOS beta for the first time ever this summer.

00:50:44   In the beginning of the summer, I wasn't so sure about the banner notifications,

00:50:49   but I've come to really like them because if you're setting up a workout or you're

00:50:53   reading a text message or you're doing something with the watch, the old

00:50:58   notification style was basically modal, right?

00:51:00   It would take over the whole watch and you couldn't do anything until you dismissed

00:51:04   it or the animation went away.

00:51:06   And now it's just like the iPhone or like the Mac where you can be working, be doing

00:51:10   something, see it come in.

00:51:11   you can go contend with it or you can just let it go and it'll be a

00:51:14   notification center when you come back. So I've really come around around on

00:51:20   this feature a lot more than I was earlier in the summer. The same as like

00:51:25   the kind of varied sizing now in notification center I feel like they're

00:51:31   doing a better job of like stretching and shrinking the notifications I think

00:51:36   it looks cleaner except you know I can when you see the notifications pop up I

00:51:41   I think they look better than they did before.

00:51:43   Like just the overall look of them

00:51:44   when you do get them full screen,

00:51:46   except some apps they look incredibly janky.

00:51:48   I don't know why.

00:51:49   - Yeah.

00:51:50   - Like the text is all wrong.

00:51:52   It's like all wrong and I don't.

00:51:54   - The to doest one, the text is like trying to escape

00:51:57   the notification UI on the left side.

00:51:59   It's bizarre, really strange.

00:52:02   - I was really excited for the Metropolitan watch face.

00:52:05   - Yeah, tell me about that

00:52:06   because I spent a little time with it,

00:52:09   but I definitely wanna hear your thinking on it.

00:52:11   It's just a visual style that I enjoy.

00:52:14   I own a metropolitan style watch, like a Nomos watch.

00:52:19   And I just like the way it looks, like the visuals of it.

00:52:22   I always end up in this situation

00:52:24   with the colors of the watch faces.

00:52:27   I don't like when the color dramatically changes

00:52:31   from the always on mode to the active mode, right?

00:52:35   So if you have like a white watch face,

00:52:38   it goes dark, like really dark when it goes into always on.

00:52:42   And I find that to be really annoying

00:52:45   to see that transition occur.

00:52:47   So I tend to run watch faces where I can have them be dark.

00:52:51   So I have like on the metropolitan face,

00:52:54   I'm using like the color is just the gray color

00:52:58   because when it goes into the always on mode,

00:53:00   it's then kind of still just a darker gray basically.

00:53:05   But it does some stuff that I don't like.

00:53:07   I don't like that it removes the numbers

00:53:09   and it also goes a little too dark.

00:53:12   It darkens the complications a little too much.

00:53:15   And I was wondering how that was gonna be for me for a bit,

00:53:19   like if it was gonna be annoying,

00:53:21   but I've kind of come around on that

00:53:23   'cause I really liked this face.

00:53:24   It has one of the weirdest features of any Apple Watch face

00:53:28   where if you activate it

00:53:30   and you scroll the digital crown, the numbers change shape.

00:53:34   Like they get larger or smaller

00:53:36   and like the font changes.

00:53:38   Very strange, but it's the thing that you can do.

00:53:41   - Yeah, because like the California watch face,

00:53:43   it has different styles for the time,

00:53:47   but you change it in the edit.

00:53:50   Like just scrolling through the crown doesn't change it.

00:53:53   I just want more consistency

00:53:54   across the way these watch faces work.

00:53:57   Like the Wayfinder one.

00:53:58   - Why, but you can, in the editing mode,

00:54:00   you can also make customizations like the California.

00:54:04   so you can choose how many numbers do you want to show up.

00:54:07   So that's the same.

00:54:09   But do you remember the one that they made

00:54:10   for the Apple Watch Series 5, I think,

00:54:13   where it looked like the time was melting off the sides?

00:54:16   - Oh yeah, yeah, I do.

00:54:17   - When you turn the digital crown without one, it moves.

00:54:21   So they've done this a couple of other times.

00:54:23   It's a strange thing, but it's kind of fun to play with.

00:54:26   - Do you remember the feature,

00:54:28   maybe Federica remembers what it was called,

00:54:30   where you would rotate the crown and the time would move?

00:54:32   - Time travel.

00:54:33   Time travel.

00:54:34   Worst feature.

00:54:35   That feature sucks.

00:54:36   Yeah, 'cause you--

00:54:37   Sucked so bad.

00:54:38   You hit your digital crown accidentally in your jacket

00:54:40   and then you're late to a meeting

00:54:41   'cause you think it's 3 p.m. and really it's 4.30.

00:54:44   It's so strange.

00:54:45   I understood what they were going for,

00:54:48   but it was a bad idea.

00:54:50   I like the medication app a lot.

00:54:52   So I was using the medication feature on my iPhone,

00:54:56   but it's way better on the watch

00:54:58   'cause it has like the app is there

00:55:00   and you can also just like say,

00:55:02   "Hey, I took my meds from the watch notification."

00:55:05   I really like it, so that's really good.

00:55:08   Low power mode, very good to have.

00:55:10   It came in handy when I was coming home from America.

00:55:14   Like, my watch was getting down,

00:55:15   and I could put it into low power mode,

00:55:17   and I still get activity stuff that way.

00:55:20   Because previously, you'd do it in that

00:55:22   power saving mode or whatever,

00:55:24   and it was basically like your watch didn't work.

00:55:27   Talking about watch not working,

00:55:28   I don't like the new interaction with the sleep focus mode

00:55:33   where you have to hold down the digital crown

00:55:36   to get to the watch.

00:55:37   - Yeah.

00:55:38   - That really annoys me.

00:55:40   I don't like that.

00:55:40   - It used to be that you spun it, right?

00:55:42   To get out of.

00:55:43   - Yeah.

00:55:44   - Yeah, that's a bit weird to me.

00:55:45   Maybe they had feedback that people's watches

00:55:48   were coming out of sleep mode.

00:55:49   It's like, I would think it'd be easier

00:55:51   to accidentally turn the crown in your sleep,

00:55:53   like dragging your arm across the pillow or something, but.

00:55:55   - I don't know if it used to lock me out like this

00:55:58   - Maybe it doesn't. - But yeah, that's a weird change.

00:56:00   - You're thinking of the water thing,

00:56:01   'cause they changed that too.

00:56:03   - Maybe I am.

00:56:04   - But with sleep mode, it used to just do what it does now.

00:56:06   Like it turns the always on off.

00:56:08   But then if you wanna use the watch,

00:56:10   you have to hold down the crown,

00:56:13   and I find that really annoying.

00:56:14   I don't need it, I don't need that feature,

00:56:18   and I don't like that they're making me do it.

00:56:20   The last thing that I really love,

00:56:22   really love about watchOS 9,

00:56:24   is the keyboard when you're replying to messages,

00:56:27   now has suggestions for words that you can tap like QuickType,

00:56:32   where before you had to tap the word

00:56:34   and scroll to digital ground to change the word,

00:56:36   which was terrible.

00:56:37   But now you can, it's better optimized for the things,

00:56:42   which I actually, more than I thought I would,

00:56:45   do I reply to messages using the swipe typing on my watch.

00:56:50   - I didn't even mention that on the Ultra.

00:56:51   On the Ultra, you can just totally just type

00:56:53   with your index finger.

00:56:54   Like it's so big.

00:56:55   - Yeah, there's a ton of space.

00:56:56   Yeah, yeah. It's that feature, like, man, it was built with the big Ultra in mind, for sure.

00:57:05   So that's my thoughts on WatchOS 9. Let's welcome Federico Vitigi back to Connected.

00:57:10   Hello Federico.

00:57:11   Hello. I want to explain what just happened to me because, like, I'm honestly, like, shaking right now.

00:57:18   And there's a tech angle to this.

00:57:22   So as I was recording the show,

00:57:26   I just watched my beach house being broken into by a guy via my security camera.

00:57:36   Like, I got the alert and I just watched it.

00:57:41   What security camera do you have?

00:57:43   I have a Logi Circle 2 outside.

00:57:46   Like, initially I, like, panicked.

00:57:50   Yeah, I mean, of course.

00:57:51   I was like, I thought I was like having like hallucinations, like am I hallucinating this?

00:58:00   And I realized this is happening for real. And I texted you guys quickly and then I got

00:58:08   up and I just spent the past 30, 35 minutes first on the phone with my mom, because obviously

00:58:17   I'm in Rome and she's closer to the beach house than I am. Right. But then my mom immediately

00:58:21   called the police and the police told her, stay where you are. Don't go there. Yeah,

00:58:26   seriously. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and also, you know, it's, it's, it's,

00:58:31   it's dark now even like it well past, you know, 8 PM and I sent the, the police called

00:58:41   me and I just had to describe this guy on the phone to the police like can you give us like

00:58:49   can you tell us what it looks like and it's been it's been so weird to do this like as you like

00:58:57   to watch a person break into your house and describe to a police officer on the phone

00:59:06   what you were seeing and the details like what does it look like and then they asked me to send

00:59:12   them the videos on whatsapp they gave me a phone number and the police officer told me can you

00:59:18   quickly please send me these videos on whatsapp because we have two we have two cars with officers

00:59:27   outside your home right now whoa and and it's been carabinieri baby they get it done yeah and

00:59:36   And it's been so... I don't know, I'm shaking right now.

00:59:40   I'm not surprised. It's a very horrible thing.

00:59:43   The tech angle is that HomeKit Secure Video worked exceptionally well.

00:59:50   I got the alert and it told me there's a person in your home.

00:59:56   I opened the Home app and I selected the portions of the video tracks that I wanted to export

01:00:03   and I just saved them as MP4 files in the files app

01:00:08   and then also in photos,

01:00:10   because it was easier to send them to my mom

01:00:13   and to the police.

01:00:14   And it was super easy.

01:00:16   But yeah, my hope is that, it's been so weird,

01:00:20   like I just watched this guy jump over the gate

01:00:24   and go through my stuff with another guy outside,

01:00:29   just covering him, I guess.

01:00:31   It's, I don't know, it's the first time in my life that this happened to me.

01:00:36   And, you know, it's not fun, but at least, you know,

01:00:41   Yay passed me for installing a security camera.

01:00:46   And also this is so weird, it's one of those coincidences, it's so weird.

01:00:49   Last week, Sylvia and I were there.

01:00:54   And we were like, "Should we take the security camera now that we're not at the beach anymore?

01:01:00   Like, is there even a reason to keep it now?

01:01:03   Nobody's here.

01:01:04   - Oh, 'cause you're kind of locked down

01:01:06   for the season now, right?

01:01:07   - Yeah, we're not going there.

01:01:09   We're not going there until next spring.

01:01:11   And we're like, should we grab it?

01:01:12   And I was like, yeah, I don't know.

01:01:14   For now, let's leave it.

01:01:16   And I had actually unplugged the Apple TV

01:01:21   thinking I'm gonna take this one.

01:01:23   But then I realized, no, well, if I'm leaving the camera,

01:01:25   it needs a HomeKit hub.

01:01:27   So before I left, I plugged it back in.

01:01:30   and I ran the software update to tvOS 16 to make sure that everything was up to date on

01:01:36   the Apple TV serving as the home kit hub and now as a turn of fate it was actually useful

01:01:44   because of this. Geez, I don't know.

01:01:48   I'm very sorry this happened to you. This is a terrible thing. Federico was texting

01:01:53   me and Steven. We were like, so we were aware that it was happening as it was going down.

01:01:58   Did it look like he got away with anything?

01:02:02   - Yeah.

01:02:03   This is so odd, but I actually don't think

01:02:10   they stole anything of value, hopefully.

01:02:15   So I don't think they were able to break in.

01:02:18   We have a pretty heavy front door made of metal.

01:02:26   It's one of those really old but sturdy metal doors.

01:02:31   But outside, that's where we have the...

01:02:34   And I know that it's a serious situation,

01:02:39   but I can't help but laugh about this stuff.

01:02:42   I think the guy stole the barbecue stuff.

01:02:44   - No!

01:02:45   - I know what you mean, like it's a horrible thing,

01:02:49   but you can laugh about it if like it just feels

01:02:51   like you just took a few things

01:02:52   that aren't really that important, right?

01:02:53   - I think this idiot stole my barbecue stuff.

01:02:57   Like, I'm pretty sure that from the video

01:03:00   he stole like the ax that I used to grab wood

01:03:04   to, you know, light a fire.

01:03:09   - Maybe he has some friends over

01:03:10   and he can't light the barbecue.

01:03:12   - Could be.

01:03:13   - He stole my barbecue stuff.

01:03:15   But like, I don't know, I'm calming down a bit now.

01:03:20   Thankfully, like thank God we took the things of value last week.

01:03:26   Oh, gosh. But yeah, this idiot stole.

01:03:30   I mean, at least I hope he only stole my barbecue stuff.

01:03:34   Yeah.

01:03:36   But what else do I keep outside?

01:03:39   There's nothing of value outside.

01:03:41   I didn't even see these idiots.

01:03:44   They didn't even see my camera because I got a very good look at the guy.

01:03:49   Here's the thing, right, for a crime like this.

01:03:52   This guy is a chancer.

01:03:54   He's not like, you know what I mean?

01:03:56   He's not like a master criminal.

01:03:57   - He's not a rocket scientist.

01:03:59   - I watched him climb that fence, Federico.

01:04:00   He's not, you know what I mean?

01:04:02   He's not smart.

01:04:04   Like these people, they just--

01:04:06   - You're not a pro.

01:04:07   - You know, he's just seen an opportunity

01:04:09   and he's jumped in and tried to grab,

01:04:11   'cause he's obviously so stupid

01:04:13   that his face is completely visible.

01:04:15   He just walks towards the camera.

01:04:17   - Yes, yes.

01:04:18   Yes, yes. And he stole my toolbox, it seems. I'm taking a look at the video again. He stole

01:04:25   my toolbox, my axe. Wow. Okay. I guess he needed some tools, I suppose. It was like,

01:04:31   we're out of tools. Let's go steal some.

01:04:34   He's building something.

01:04:35   What else? He did it. Yeah. See, this is, this is the gross thing about this. Seeing

01:04:40   a random guy go through your stuff.

01:04:41   Yeah, it's a bad feeling.

01:04:42   Even if you didn't take anything off. Like, if it feels weird and gross watching this.

01:04:47   It's a violation.

01:04:48   Yes, I feel violated. Yes, that's exactly what it feels like. I kind of feel like I

01:04:52   just want to go there and throw everything in the trash right now. This is gross. Look

01:04:58   at this idiot. Look at him go. He even looks at the camera at one point.

01:05:03   Yeah, look at that. That's the moment, like, you know, it's like the anime to be continued

01:05:09   moment when he looks at the camera. He's like, oh.

01:05:15   This presents a unique opportunity to us to pivot Connected into a true crime podcast.

01:05:23   Oh, yeah!

01:05:25   Yeah!

01:05:26   So, you know, if they find him, we'll have an updated episode, talk about his sentencing,

01:05:32   etc, etc.

01:05:34   We could, like, do this, like, "From Relay FM, a story of a stolen tools."

01:05:42   and then like Federico. Federico give me a quote now just like say something, anything.

01:05:46   I don't know what they stole but I can tell you for sure they grabbed my axe.

01:05:51   Don't you say like this is how we like that's how you build the stuff, the crime story.

01:06:07   Like a very serial style.

01:06:11   He thought he was just jumping a fence, but instead he jumped into a wider story.

01:06:16   The guy had no idea I would end up on an international podcast about Apple stuff.

01:06:22   That's the thing about it.

01:06:23   Let's get into Paul on this. He's just committed an international crime now.

01:06:30   See, Cavalta, so through the history of the prompt and then connected, we've done our and

01:06:38   discussed our fair share of weird things and topics, right? And we've said some silly things,

01:06:45   some more serious things. We've seen the spectrum of the topics we can cover. I never thought I

01:06:52   would end up watching my house being broken into and talk about it on the show as it was happening.

01:06:58   as it was happening. That's the thing that kills me is we record two hours a week.

01:07:02   Like this would have been strange no matter what time of day you send us these videos, right?

01:07:09   Like yes, very upsetting, like all of that. But for it to happen on the show, it's just the

01:07:14   universe telling us that, you know, it's time to pivot the company. Well it's just like I'm asking

01:07:19   Steven, you know, "Does your watch band fit?" and Federico's sending me messages of a person

01:07:25   and breaking into his house. I will say, this is what you get. Like, what other tech podcast

01:07:30   has had a live house break-in? You know?

01:07:34   Yeah.

01:07:35   Fedorica, you have to go back and listen to see what I think about the Apple Watch Ultra

01:07:38   though.

01:07:39   I will do that. I will do that, actually.

01:07:41   I'll provide follow-up next week.

01:07:42   Okay.

01:07:43   I think that we have now set the stage emotionally to talk a bit about Stage Manager.

01:07:49   You got me right where I need to be right now. Yes.

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01:10:02   So yesterday Apple gave a statement to Engadget. I will now read that statement.

01:10:09   "We introduced Stage Manager as a whole new way to

01:10:13   multitask with overlapping resizable windows on both the iPad display and a separate external

01:10:18   display with the ability to run up to 8 live apps on screen at once.

01:10:24   Delivering this multi-display support is only possible with the full power of M1 based iPads.

01:10:30   Customers of iPad Pro 3rd and 4th generation have expressed strong interest in being able

01:10:37   to experience Stage Manager on their iPads.

01:10:40   In response, our team have worked hard to find a way to deliver a single screen version

01:10:46   for these systems with support for up to 4 live apps on the iPad screen at once.

01:10:52   External display support for Stage Manager on M1 iPads will be available in a software

01:10:57   update later this year.

01:10:59   Apple also delayed, uh, oh yeah sorry the external display support is delayed, yep,

01:11:04   and then everything else is coming out whenever it comes out 16.1.

01:11:08   Yeah, so it is a little confusing.

01:11:10   So the 2018, 2020 iPads,

01:11:15   no external display support for Stage Manager ever.

01:11:19   The M1 is still getting it, but not anytime soon.

01:11:22   And Federico, my question for you is,

01:11:25   does getting rid of the external display support for now,

01:11:28   does that fix Stage Manager?

01:11:29   Was that the core of the problem?

01:11:31   It was one of the crashiest parts of it.

01:11:37   of it, but it doesn't fix the problem, unfortunately. I was hoping yesterday that it would fix the

01:11:43   problem. So almost like, you know, cutting off a rotten limb. I'm sorry for the grim

01:11:52   metaphor, but you're in a mood, you know, but no, it doesn't fix it. The problem is

01:11:59   still there despite the, you know, dropping the the weight of of that part the problem persists.

01:12:08   Yeah, it was quite interesting to follow along with Federico on twitter yesterday.

01:12:16   It's been an emotional arc.

01:12:19   And then it reminded me of the comedy in the tragedy masks which I found out are also known

01:12:26   as "Sock and Buskin" which I did not know until I looked this up today.

01:12:31   But where I was like, he was so happy and then immediately so sad.

01:12:35   Federico, I would love you to give that kind of whole arc to the connected audience.

01:12:40   So why were you happy about what Apple did and then why are you sad?

01:12:44   Well immediately I was happy to see the recognition of the feedback from the community.

01:12:51   and I was happy to see Apple being willing to compromise and saying, "Okay, we hear your feedback.

01:13:01   We know that you really want to use Stage Manager on your older iPad, so how about this?

01:13:09   We don't give you external display support, we give you a single screen Stage Manager,

01:13:14   and you can use it on the 2018 and 2020 iPad Pros." I liked that. Immediately, I thought,

01:13:20   that's a good sign. That's a company that's willing to listen. And I understand, and also

01:13:26   right away, I felt optimistic because of the removal of the external display support, which

01:13:33   has been frankly unusable, right? And I wrote about this in July. I have been extremely skeptical

01:13:41   of all these folks who have done videos on YouTube showing "Hey, Stage Manager is perfect on my

01:13:47   my external display where they're basically showing like a static screen for 20 minutes.

01:13:53   Like yeah, if you leave an app running on an external display and you don't touch it

01:13:58   and you don't move anything, it's not going to crash. But the moment you try to work with

01:14:02   it, oh, it's going to crash. So those videos were funny. And so immediately I felt happy

01:14:09   see a company willing to compromise and optimistic about, you know, maybe this is the time they're

01:14:19   figuring this out. So I installed the beta and, you know, I thought, okay, maybe there's

01:14:28   going to be more fixes, there's going to be more, you know, improvements on this front,

01:14:33   things are maybe pointing in the right direction. I started using it for the first 30 minutes

01:14:39   or 40 minutes or something, totally fine, totally okay. No crashes, no problems.

01:14:47   And when I say problems, I mean of the technical nature. We can get into the problems of the design

01:14:54   nature later. I mean, strictly, technically speaking, no problems, no crashes, no weird black

01:15:02   bars, nothing. And so, okay, I'm thinking, this is great, this is nice. Apple is listening,

01:15:09   they are changing their minds on this, the thing is not crashing for me. Maybe this is the beginning

01:15:15   of an improvement, you know, maybe they are turning the ship around. I figured, you know,

01:15:23   as maybe finally I tweeted this, maybe finally I can sit down and write this iPadOS 16 review,

01:15:32   write about Stage Manager. And the moment I started using it for real "real work,"

01:15:39   that's where the problems reappeared again. And once again I felt like in the span of just a few

01:15:48   hours... This is like leaving the worst nerd version of Groundhog Day ever. Like, in just a

01:15:58   matter of hours, I was right there where I started. Meaning I click an icon in the

01:16:04   dock and my iPad reboots. Or I click a link to open a web page in Safari and my

01:16:12   iPad reboots. And so I was like, "Okay, here we go again. It's crashing every few

01:16:17   minutes." And I try to use drag and drop to drag in a window because they still

01:16:24   don't have a proper shift-click behavior to add an app from the dock to your current workspace,

01:16:32   so I'm using drag and drop. I use drag and drop and instead of seeing my app, I see a

01:16:37   black rectangle. Like, "Okay, here it goes again, this bug as well." So I'm like, "Okay,

01:16:44   here we go, the whole team is here. The crashing, the black box, everything is here once again."

01:16:50   But then a new enemy appeared, so to speak. That enemy being the trackpad. Or, you know,

01:17:00   the fact that when you switch, when you move between windows, and I'm struggling to describe

01:17:07   this, because this is like the weirdest bug ever for a windowing system, you were expecting

01:17:14   a windowing system to, well, take the pointer from one window to another, right? So you

01:17:21   click on Safari, you interact with Safari. Notes is floating right next to Safari, you

01:17:28   click on Notes, you work with Notes. That's exactly what people do with their computers.

01:17:32   It's the point of a windowing system.

01:17:34   It's the whole point of it. Like, you move the cursor, you click on Windows, you work

01:17:39   with those windows.

01:17:40   In the latest version of Hyper S16, I'm getting there, but I need to set the proverbial stage

01:17:47   for this.

01:17:48   I know, right?

01:17:52   I am good with words.

01:17:54   Yes.

01:17:55   In the latest version of Hyper S16, I noticed that when I moved the pointer from one window

01:18:03   to another, in the other window, my clicks would not get recognized.

01:18:09   I would click to the new window. So you're in Safari, you move to Notes. Let's say I have

01:18:13   Safari and Notes. I move to Notes, I start clicking around and the clicks do nothing.

01:18:17   And initially I thought, well, something is wrong with my Magic Keyboard. So I do one of those things

01:18:23   that, you know, folks do often like, let me detach and reattach my Magic Keyboard because maybe

01:18:30   something got stuck. And nothing. I'm moving between windows and when I move again I click and

01:18:35   the other window does not respond to my clicks.

01:18:37   And so I'm like, well, let me reboot my iPad.

01:18:42   So I shut it down and I power it on again,

01:18:45   open Stage Manager, two windows, move between them,

01:18:49   the clicks go nowhere.

01:18:50   Until I realize that those,

01:18:55   there's this bug in this version of Stage Manager,

01:18:59   which is now in public beta as of an hour ago,

01:19:01   so everybody can go in and test it.

01:19:03   Oh, good, good.

01:19:05   Yeah, go there.

01:19:06   Fantastic.

01:19:06   Clicks get the trackpad.

01:19:11   So this only happens with the trackpad or, you know, the

01:19:15   accessory that Apple sells you with an iPad Pro.

01:19:17   Clicks get stuck when you move between windows.

01:19:22   If you want to get it unstuck, you need to click the edges of a

01:19:29   window or the three dot multitasking menu at the top of a window. Doing that will unstuck

01:19:38   the window so your clicks will work again. So effectively interacting with either the

01:19:44   resizing system in some way. Yes. And does this happen 100% of the time for you? 100%

01:19:55   of the time. And so I thought it was so wild, I couldn't believe it. Like, I couldn't believe

01:20:00   that they would ship a bug so bad that it would happen, right? I thought something was

01:20:07   wrong on my end. So, out of sheer precaution, and just to make sure that I would have a

01:20:13   proper response to the people, to the, you know, the reply guys on Twitter, would say,

01:20:19   but it's your iPad. Recently someone told me that the problems I have with stage manager

01:20:27   are due to the fact that my iPad is overloaded. Someone told me that.

01:20:32   Steven used to cyberbully me with this, telling me to restore my phone. This was a thing.

01:20:38   Yeah, so because I remember, because I know that I can get behind that argument,

01:20:43   I've been using this iPad Pro for a bunch of weird things. Insert base64 joke here.

01:20:49   I've been running a bunch of betas. It's a fair argument. So I wiped my iPad Pro.

01:20:57   Not even the "erase all contents and settings". I'm talking DFU mode.

01:21:01   Alright? Straight up DFU mode. Downloaded the software image from the Apple Developer website.

01:21:09   restored my iPad Pro without a backup.

01:21:12   Nothing, nothing.

01:21:14   Fresh iPad Pro.

01:21:16   I go in, enable stage manager, open two windows,

01:21:20   click between them, my clicks got stuck.

01:21:23   So that's when I gave up.

01:21:27   Yeah, that's the moment when I was like,

01:21:30   I'm giving up here, I'm done.

01:21:31   Like.

01:21:33   - I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say,

01:21:35   I think we are in the worst timeline for stage manager.

01:21:38   Apple prioritised the wrong thing and I was worried they would do this and they've done it.

01:21:44   In my opinion, they have wasted the last two to three months doing the work to make sure that this will be enabled on the older iPad Pros

01:21:57   and not getting it to a stage where it is reliable on the M1 iPad Pros.

01:22:04   I feel like what they should have done is made this statement but said it will come in 2023 for other iPad Pros

01:22:13   and spend this time making Stage Manager not even just better.

01:22:20   We've been talking about a lot of "better" but it's clearly, as Federico is running into untold problems, right?

01:22:27   I feel like they've prioritised the wrong thing.

01:22:32   I know that Federico you are happy about the fact that they listen to the community

01:22:36   I was away on the episode where you guys spoke about this and it was a great episode

01:22:41   But at that time I would have said no

01:22:43   They have to like that you did they did not need to ship stage manager

01:22:50   At the same time on all devices if they had to do it all I know why it annoys people

01:22:56   I get it, right? Like, you want to be able to use this feature on this device which otherwise runs fine.

01:23:02   But like, this happens all the time, right? Like this is just the way that technology moves.

01:23:09   And you can ask for it and if they give you it, they give you it.

01:23:12   But now they have, I think, made the wrong decision because I think they have clearly spent a lot of time working on this

01:23:19   because this is the first we've heard about this, right?

01:23:23   like all of a sudden now like three months after an initial release three months after the outrage

01:23:31   where apple said time and time again why they couldn't do this they've now said loljk we've

01:23:39   done it right so it feels like they have had to obviously put a lot of work into making a version

01:23:45   of this that can run on their other hardware even in a somewhat limited space but i think for most

01:23:51   people they don't actually really want the external display support anyway like

01:23:56   I think stage manager is at its best just like being a windowing system on the

01:24:00   iPad I think like that is what it should focus on most and then the external

01:24:05   display support is like nice if you have it nice if you want to use it etc etc

01:24:08   but like that is really I think like stage manager is already a thin side of

01:24:13   the wedge like external display support for your iPad is an even thinner wedge

01:24:17   right like we're just like really going on like percentage of percentage of

01:24:21   people at that point. But if we've gotten to this point and I mean we are anywhere between

01:24:29   two to four weeks in theory of this thing shipping on an ideal timeline, right? It just

01:24:36   doesn't seem like it is in any kind of state because you see there are new bugs and they

01:24:44   haven't addressed any of the things that you want to make the thing better.

01:24:47   Yeah, yeah. Yes. So what this isn't like is like Safari, right? I think a lot of people

01:24:53   are going to compare this to Safari and people are going to say, oh, they changed Safari,

01:24:59   right? But they changed Safari in good ways and made Safari from bad to good, where all

01:25:05   they've done like for this one is just they've just made it available more devices, but it's

01:25:09   still got all the problems it had.

01:25:11   Potentially widening the user base of folks who are going to run into problems.

01:25:16   Yeah, yeah. More people, more people get the bugs.

01:25:19   Yeah, there's more people that will be upset.

01:25:22   And with Safari, it took a couple of betas, but then we saw pretty good progress.

01:25:28   Exactly, exactly. So that's where I wanted to go.

01:25:32   So Myke, you said that I was happy about, you know, having be extended to more users.

01:25:38   And, and yes, initially I was, but then this morning, you know, after sleeping on this,

01:25:44   I was thinking like, I'm happy that they listened.

01:25:47   But then I went back in and checked.

01:25:50   We talked about this stuff on June 15th,

01:25:54   three more than three months ago, three and a half months ago.

01:26:00   And we're seeing this change now.

01:26:04   And so that, first of all, says a few things about how slow moving this ship really is.

01:26:11   Right?

01:26:12   I mean, we are seeing now addressing feedback from three and a half months ago.

01:26:20   I'm not sure how I feel about that.

01:26:26   But even then, like, they have removed half of Sage Manager, right?

01:26:33   And now I'm wondering, like, who's happy now?

01:26:41   Because people like me, we wanted stability, we wanted a bit more configuration options,

01:26:49   like a bit more flexibility from Stage Manager and polish, and we didn't get that.

01:26:55   Other folks wanted external display support, and I know, I have seen some Mac Stories readers

01:27:01   tell me, "I upgraded my old iPad Pro to the M1 because of Stage Manager, and now it's

01:27:08   useless."

01:27:09   are not happy and because it's been three and a half months right it's been a it's been people

01:27:15   make decisions in three and a half months it's been it's a long time in in this day and age

01:27:21   i would say like i know what you're saying about like the the length of time it takes

01:27:25   the ship for the ship to turn and i understand what you're saying that if like if they make a

01:27:29   decision how long it takes to act on it the one thing i would add to that is we don't really know

01:27:34   just how truly big or smaller job it was to actually even get this to a point where they

01:27:39   were willing to say they were going to do it. Exactly. It may have taken like completely

01:27:44   redoing the thing. Exactly. So this is this is my problem a lot because like we've been

01:27:49   talking about this and the reason I keep talking about it is that obviously I really want to

01:27:55   use this. If this was something that I didn't care about I wouldn't talk about it. Like

01:28:02   Apple News. I mean, no offense to who works on Apple News, but I personally don't use the product.

01:28:08   I don't have a lot of emotions and feelings about it. I really want to use Stage Manager.

01:28:13   And I can tell you... It's made for you. Maybe, right? But I feel like... I cannot imagine

01:28:21   how much time and effort and, like, people working overtime has gone into making this possible,

01:28:28   where this continues to be a product that, when you use your trackpad, it doesn't accept your clicks.

01:28:38   Like, all the time and effort for this, and you look at what this actually is, and you start to

01:28:46   wonder, was it worth it? And to me, this is like such a perfect example of the fallacy of sunk cost.

01:28:55   this economic principle where you're basically invested so much into a thing that you don't

01:29:01   want to give it up, whereas the more sage advice would be to cut your losses. And Apple is not doing

01:29:08   that. They are continuing to insist on "No, we are doing stage manager," even though you start

01:29:15   picking off the things. "Okay, so now we said we wouldn't do it on more iPads. We are doing it on

01:29:21   or more iPads, but it's not ready yet, okay, so we are going to delay it.

01:29:27   It's still not working well. What if we cut the external display support? At what point

01:29:32   do you end up with something that doesn't even resemble what stage manager was supposed

01:29:36   to be? Like, I think Apple needs to take a long breath here, and be like, "Okay, seriously,

01:29:46   Do we absolutely need to ship this by October?

01:29:51   Like, is it absolutely necessary?

01:29:54   Because I continue to ask the question

01:29:56   that I asked last week and two weeks ago.

01:30:00   Who is happy about Stage Manager on iPadOS at the moment?

01:30:04   Like, I want to know.

01:30:06   Who's happy about it?

01:30:08   Is there anyone who loves it?

01:30:11   And I don't understand, because it's--

01:30:14   I continue to look, I'm never gonna be the person

01:30:17   who loses hope and it's like,

01:30:19   I'm gonna stop using the iPad, I quit, I'm done.

01:30:23   It's just not who I am.

01:30:27   So I continue to hope that Apple can figure this out,

01:30:34   but then that continuing to hope is just not backed up

01:30:43   by reality at the moment.

01:30:45   Because as time goes on, week after week,

01:30:48   each week is more problematic than before.

01:30:51   I mean, let's face it.

01:30:52   Each week it gets worse.

01:30:54   And I'm not saying this to be an Apple hater,

01:30:58   or like, I want to use this thing.

01:31:01   Like, I want to work with it.

01:31:03   I want to use it.

01:31:04   I want to write about it.

01:31:06   Because when it worked, it was cool to have three, four apps

01:31:11   at the same time.

01:31:12   But let's face it, each week it gets worse.

01:31:15   How do we get out of this hole?

01:31:17   And I said two weeks ago, and I said it last week again,

01:31:20   they're only digging a deeper hole each week,

01:31:24   and that continues to be more true every single week.

01:31:28   It gets worse on a weekly basis.

01:31:31   And it's not like it gets worse, but you can see,

01:31:35   oh, but they're doing this to make it better.

01:31:37   No, they're cutting off things,

01:31:40   and it continues to get worse.

01:31:42   And that's not to mention all the things

01:31:47   that stage manager does not have,

01:31:50   or does not do by design.

01:31:52   Like, we haven't even touched upon

01:31:56   the design of stage manager.

01:31:58   That's a whole different thing.

01:32:00   I'm talking about this product that Apple gave to us.

01:32:03   We're looking at it as it is, you know?

01:32:07   Just look at what this is,

01:32:10   because we could talk about design of stage manager,

01:32:13   how I would like to see different decisions being made.

01:32:18   There's a conversation to be had about,

01:32:20   do we really need overlapping windows on an iPad

01:32:25   as opposed to a tiling mechanism?

01:32:28   But that's a different conversation.

01:32:31   Let's just talk about the product, right?

01:32:34   And it's just not there.

01:32:36   Not for people like me,

01:32:38   not for folks who wanted external display support

01:32:40   at this point.

01:32:41   So who is it for?

01:32:44   And can it find a market

01:32:48   within two weeks, three weeks?

01:32:52   - I also find it interesting,

01:32:54   like Apple knows what build is gonna go out as a beta, right?

01:32:59   It's not a surprise and like,

01:33:00   oh, that's what people are running.

01:33:03   And the current version being so like,

01:33:05   in some ways maybe the most broken version

01:33:08   we've had in a while.

01:33:10   I just, so much about it makes me scratch my head

01:33:13   about what's going on with this feature.

01:33:15   And is it something inherently broken?

01:33:19   Like that in the way that this is being built

01:33:22   that they can't quickly fix it, right?

01:33:24   Is there some sort of technical or technical debt

01:33:27   or some sort of legacy, something or other

01:33:29   that is holding them back?

01:33:31   Because it's not like the people working on this

01:33:32   aren't some of the smartest software engineers in the world,

01:33:36   but they seem to really be struggling

01:33:38   to get this even close to where it needs to be.

01:33:41   - Yeah, yeah, and I know for a fact

01:33:46   that there are a lot of really, really,

01:33:48   like really smart people working on this stuff

01:33:51   who listen to Connected, who listen to Upgrade,

01:33:54   who follow our work and listen to our opinions.

01:33:59   And obviously we, from here in front of our microphones,

01:34:04   we have no idea what it's like to work on this stuff, right?

01:34:08   We have no idea about timelines, deadlines,

01:34:10   product managers.

01:34:12   These folks are optimizing this stuff for future hardware.

01:34:15   We have no idea about the future hardware,

01:34:18   but we are customers and we use the product

01:34:23   that is given to us.

01:34:26   And I think maybe Apple doesn't like it

01:34:30   when their stuff is criticized.

01:34:33   I mean, nobody likes a critic, right?

01:34:35   Especially when you're the one making the product.

01:34:39   But critics are necessary.

01:34:42   Because in this case, I think that ultimately,

01:34:46   Apple will be happy to have a better product, right?

01:34:51   - Yeah.

01:34:53   - That's why we talk about this stuff.

01:34:56   Because--

01:34:57   I mean, if they hated critics that much,

01:34:58   they wouldn't have enabled it for third and fourth gen.

01:35:00   Exactly.

01:35:01   Like--

01:35:01   iPads.

01:35:02   It's the only reason they did it was because people were upset

01:35:04   about it.

01:35:05   And to be fair, they do listen.

01:35:07   They ask questions.

01:35:09   They have been more proactive in reaching out

01:35:12   to the press and the community over the past few years.

01:35:17   It's a very different apple from that point of view

01:35:20   from, say, 10 years ago, 13 years ago,

01:35:22   when I started Mac Stories.

01:35:24   And they really want to have a conversation about this stuff,

01:35:27   which is great.

01:35:28   But then look at the results.

01:35:31   If they're not there, I'm sorry, but they're not there.

01:35:35   And this is where we are.

01:35:37   I mean, look, we can only comment

01:35:39   on what we can comment on, right?

01:35:41   And what we can comment on is what we can see.

01:35:44   And what we can see is that this thing is not

01:35:47   good enough right now.

01:35:49   Who knows what the next month might bring?

01:35:52   There might be like, all right, look,

01:35:53   we got all these fixes, but we had to get this version out first and then we can.

01:35:58   I'm like, great. Nobody wants to be like, not necessarily proven wrong, but nobody wants

01:36:03   to have to walk all this back and say like, hey, they fixed it more than us three. Right?

01:36:08   Because we just want this to be good. I'll tell you right now, like I think people might

01:36:11   listen to somebody's shows sometimes and think, oh, these guys just love to complain. I much

01:36:15   prefer to be happy. I'll tell you right now, I much prefer to sit here and say to you how

01:36:20   how much I love something, because I am an enthusiastic person, it's what I draw pleasure

01:36:25   in. But if we take our job seriously, of like we talk about these things sometimes, it needs

01:36:33   to be saying this isn't good enough. And like to echo what Federico was saying, I'm sure

01:36:37   there are people who listen to this show, there might be people who listen to this show

01:36:40   right now who work on this project, and my expectation is, well you know though right?

01:36:48   don't want this to be doing what Federico is describing it's doing.

01:36:52   No, surely not.

01:36:53   So like, I don't feel like bad that we talk about this. I'm sure it like, if you welcome

01:37:01   it it's frustrating to you, but we're not the ones making the frustration, like it's

01:37:05   doing the same.

01:37:06   Like, yeah, well like we're not making this up. Like, and I tried all the potential ways

01:37:14   that I had to make this work for me.

01:37:17   And it's not.

01:37:19   - But I think that there is a management error

01:37:21   that has been made in the development of Stage Manager

01:37:25   during the beta process.

01:37:26   - Probably.

01:37:27   - And so I feel, honestly feel for some of the engineers

01:37:30   'cause I'm sure that they have had

01:37:33   their development focus changed.

01:37:36   And I think that it was the wrong decision

01:37:40   unless, unless, a bunch of stuff starts coming out

01:37:44   in the next couple of weeks.

01:37:46   - Look, and I'm still hoping, right?

01:37:48   Still maybe the next one.

01:37:50   Maybe we'll get it this time.

01:37:52   But the one final thing I wanna say

01:37:57   is that at the moment I feel,

01:37:59   I gotta be honest with you guys and with the listeners.

01:38:03   I honestly feel like all this kind of iPad energy

01:38:08   has been sucked out of me.

01:38:11   Like I, I feel exhausted for this stuff.

01:38:16   And I, I, I'm again in the spirit of honesty,

01:38:21   I have no plan for my iPad or S16 review at the moment.

01:38:25   Like I, I'm, I've been waiting for like, oh,

01:38:29   surely this afternoon inspiration will strike and I'll, you know,

01:38:34   start writing. I'm not saying that I have writer's block because I don't,

01:38:38   Because I just wrote something on Mac Stories today, I've been writing for weekly.

01:38:43   I just, above this specifically, I don't know what I think because I feel like I haven't been put

01:38:51   in a position to think and to understand, to form an opinion, right? So I've been trying to

01:39:01   distract myself, I guess.

01:39:03   Testing apps, writing about shortcuts.

01:39:09   I'm gonna have a notes-themed week on MacStories.

01:39:14   I wrote about notes on MacStories today.

01:39:16   I'm gonna write about notes in the monthly log.

01:39:18   I'm gonna write about notes in MacStories weekly.

01:39:21   I've been trying to do other things.

01:39:22   I've been playing Cyberpunk on my gaming PC.

01:39:25   I have no idea.

01:39:27   Honestly, I have no idea what I'm gonna do

01:39:29   with this iPad OS review,

01:39:30   because I feel like there's one big feature

01:39:32   and I could write about it now,

01:39:36   but what are the odds that what I write

01:39:39   will be completely different in two weeks?

01:39:41   Will it be worth it?

01:39:43   How can I pre-write something that is

01:39:46   on such a shaky foundation on a weekly basis?

01:39:51   - I don't think you can write about it until,

01:39:54   I don't think you should even start.

01:39:56   Like, I think you should wait for another couple of weeks.

01:39:59   you see if it changes, if it doesn't, I mean, what's the...

01:40:04   - But then if I'm late, everybody's gonna be like,

01:40:06   "Oh, where's your review, iPad guy?"

01:40:08   - Well, I don't think there's anything you can do.

01:40:13   - Yeah, well.

01:40:13   - I feel like it's pointless to start writing it now, right?

01:40:19   Because anything can happen in the next few weeks,

01:40:21   you have to start all over again.

01:40:22   - But like, imagine if I started writing this

01:40:24   and I wrote about external displacement,

01:40:26   Like, imagine all the work that it would have deleted.

01:40:31   Oh my gosh.

01:40:32   Yeah.

01:40:33   - Yeah, I think that there's still too much instability

01:40:36   for you to even begin.

01:40:37   And so maybe it just comes late

01:40:39   and it just comes late and that's it.

01:40:40   - Maybe it's what it is.

01:40:41   - Like basically what happened with iOS 15.

01:40:44   - 14, yeah, 14 I think it was.

01:40:46   - 14, it just comes when it comes, you know?

01:40:48   - Yeah, well, yeah.

01:40:51   I think that's what I gotta do.

01:40:56   Because I feel like it would be pretty dishonest, actually,

01:40:59   to have a review of Stage Manager,

01:41:02   and I've only used it for two days.

01:41:04   I mean, you can go look for that kind of content elsewhere.

01:41:07   I'm sure there will be plenty of hands-on

01:41:09   and things like that.

01:41:10   It's not what I like to do, personally.

01:41:14   So I'm waiting for, like,

01:41:18   I feel like the guy waiting there be like,

01:41:20   "Is this my chance? Is this my chance?

01:41:21   Is this my chance now?"

01:41:22   And every week I'm like, "Nope, nope, nope."

01:41:25   So, hey, maybe next Tuesday, right?

01:41:28   Maybe next Tuesday, it'll be better.

01:41:31   I don't know, I don't know.

01:41:34   We'll see.

01:41:36   - In the meantime, if you wanna find links

01:41:38   to stuff we spoke about, head on over to the website,

01:41:40   relay.fm/connected/417.

01:41:44   We also urge you, if you have not donated yet,

01:41:46   go to stjou.org/relay.

01:41:49   Go donate, the campaign winds down the end of this week.

01:41:53   You can find us all online.

01:41:55   You can find Myke on Twitter as I-M-Y-K-E.

01:41:59   Myke hosts a bunch of other shows here on Relay FM.

01:42:02   Find Federico at maxstories.net

01:42:05   and on Twitter at Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:42:08   You can follow me online as ismh

01:42:11   and I write over at 512pixels.net.

01:42:14   I'd like to thank our sponsors,

01:42:15   Rogue Amoeba, Indeed, and TextExpander.

01:42:18   Until next week, guys, say goodbye.

01:42:21   - Adios, achoo. - Cheerio.