408: Oh! Tim Cook is in Here, Too!


00:00:00   ♪♪

00:00:08   -From "Replay FM," this is "Connected" episode 408.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by our excellent sponsors,

00:00:15   "Text Expander," "Indeed," and "Capital One."

00:00:17   I'm one of your co-hosts, primarily, Federico Vittucci,

00:00:20   and I'm very pleased to introduce my friend

00:00:23   and fellow co-host, Mr. Stephen Hackett.

00:00:25   Hello, Stephen. -Hello, Federico.

00:00:27   Welcome back. -Thank you.

00:00:29   it's good to be back it feels very nice to be back and I'm joined by our co-host mr. Myke Hurley

00:00:34   hello across the oceans yes well am I across an ocean from you yeah no I mean

00:00:46   well we have a sea in between us we don't have an ocean go the other way I mean there's two

00:00:53   Two oceans between us, you know?

00:00:56   Yeah, well.

00:00:57   Or if you take a really long way,

00:00:59   you could get like three or four oceans between us, right?

00:01:01   Sure, sure, I mean, if you look at it that way, yes.

00:01:04   Or no oceans, you just like tunnel down into the earth

00:01:07   and then pop up like a mole.

00:01:10   Jokes on you, the earth is flat, so.

00:01:12   That's true, you can go too far,

00:01:14   you fall off the other side.

00:01:15   Yeah. Exactly.

00:01:16   And you reach the wall and aliens come pick you up.

00:01:19   You know what the deal is.

00:01:21   I do, I do.

00:01:22   - Yeah.

00:01:23   (laughing)

00:01:25   - Hey, pick a number between one and 10.

00:01:27   - Seven.

00:01:28   - Oh no.

00:01:29   I don't wanna do this.

00:01:32   - Pick a number between one and 10.

00:01:34   - Well, he already said seven.

00:01:36   - Yeah, I'm talking to you, Myke.

00:01:37   Pick a number.

00:01:38   - Oh, three?

00:01:40   - Federico wins.

00:01:41   He is the closest.

00:01:43   There are currently eight days left

00:01:45   in the 2023 Apple history calendar Kickstarter.

00:01:49   The link is in the show notes.

00:01:51   - What does he win, the opportunity to back your Kickstarter project?

00:01:54   - You have the opportunity to buy a calendar.

00:01:57   And it's a really good calendar, if I must say so myself.

00:02:00   - Mm-hmm.

00:02:01   Well, you would.

00:02:02   - I mean, I'm biased. - Yeah.

00:02:03   - But a thousand people liked it last year, so...

00:02:06   You should join in. - What if there's

00:02:08   a big error, though?

00:02:09   Would it be good then?

00:02:10   - No, don't say that.

00:02:12   - What if you put like-- - Stop!

00:02:13   - 32 days in July or something?

00:02:15   - No, no, no, no, no.

00:02:17   This thing is fact-checked enough

00:02:18   where many people would suffer

00:02:19   if they were 32 days in July.

00:02:22   - Yeah, but who checked the fact checkers?

00:02:24   That's the question.

00:02:26   - It's true.

00:02:26   - Who's fact checking the fact checkers, you know?

00:02:27   - Yeah. - It's important.

00:02:29   This is important stuff.

00:02:30   - Double down on the fact checking.

00:02:31   Anyways, eight days left, go check it out.

00:02:35   - You have to make one of those YouTube videos

00:02:37   like "Grey Maid".

00:02:38   "Why Stephen Hackett was wrong."

00:02:40   - "Was wrong."

00:02:41   - That's right. - You'll have to do

00:02:42   one of those.

00:02:43   - Do you guys ever talk about yourselves

00:02:45   in the third person?

00:02:46   - No. - No.

00:02:47   - Yeah, me neither.

00:02:48   But there's so many people who do and I find it so weird.

00:02:51   - Yeah, I don't agree with that as a thing.

00:02:54   - But so many people do that.

00:02:57   - Federico, a question came up in our Discord

00:02:59   for Relay FM members.

00:03:01   If you're a member of Relay FM,

00:03:02   you get a bunch of cool perks, Discord.

00:03:05   - Oh, let's see.

00:03:06   - Newsletter, wallpapers, all sorts of cool stuff.

00:03:08   (laughing)

00:03:09   - I thought you'd blanked on it there.

00:03:11   - I did for a second.

00:03:12   - I'm sure there's some good stuff in there.

00:03:15   Look, don't worry about it.

00:03:17   I don't know who runs our membership program,

00:03:19   but he sounds like a real special guy.

00:03:23   So Federico, a couple of years ago,

00:03:25   you went on this vision quest

00:03:27   to make the AirPods Pro more comfortable,

00:03:29   and you ended up with the Comply foam tips,

00:03:32   and people wanted a follow-up on that.

00:03:34   Are you still using them?

00:03:35   Did you find something else?

00:03:36   What's the state of your AirPods Pro?

00:03:38   - I am not using the Comply foam tips anymore,

00:03:41   but I am using a different set of tips

00:03:44   that were recommended to me by friend of the show, Chris

00:03:48   Lolly.

00:03:50   So I am using--

00:03:51   I'm going to send you a link.

00:03:52   These are like hybrid tips that are

00:03:55   using a mix of memory foam and silicon on the outside.

00:03:59   So they're called the Chargen Pro Tips.

00:04:03   And here's a link on Amazon.com for you.

00:04:07   I really like this because they look like regular AirPods tips,

00:04:11   but they have foam on the inside.

00:04:15   So they do adapt to the shape of your ear better

00:04:18   than just standard silicone tips from Apple.

00:04:21   And I like them because they're easier to clean

00:04:27   and you don't have to press them and warm them up

00:04:32   with your fingers like the regular foam tips.

00:04:35   And also the regular foam tips,

00:04:39   they get absolutely disgusting over time

00:04:41   and you gotta change them every couple of months

00:04:43   if you don't pay attention to cleaning them every week

00:04:46   or so, every few days actually.

00:04:48   And these are much better because they're easier to clean

00:04:51   and they got mostly the same benefits

00:04:53   of the Comply foam tips,

00:04:55   meaning they are more comfortable

00:04:56   and I feel like they really adapt

00:05:00   to the shape of my inner ear.

00:05:02   And yeah, I've been using them

00:05:04   for the past more than six months actually,

00:05:07   because I was looking at my Amazon order page.

00:05:09   I've been using them since September of last year,

00:05:11   so I can recommend these.

00:05:14   I think they're--

00:05:14   - These are basically, they're silicone on the outside,

00:05:17   but it gets squished on the inside,

00:05:20   so it makes a better seal.

00:05:21   Is that the thing? - Yep, exactly.

00:05:23   Exactly.

00:05:24   - Huh.

00:05:24   - It's like a hybrid approach.

00:05:26   They did a Kickstarter last year,

00:05:29   and now you can just get them from Amazon.

00:05:31   And this Chargent Pro folks,

00:05:33   they do a bunch of other accessories,

00:05:35   actually, for the AirPods.

00:05:36   I was familiar with them,

00:05:37   because back in the day, I think I bought from them

00:05:40   one of those hooks that you could put around

00:05:44   the regular AirPods if you wanted your AirPods

00:05:48   to look like the Powerbeats or something.

00:05:51   I believe that these folks,

00:05:52   they used to make those accessories.

00:05:54   And now they're also making these hybrid foam tips.

00:05:57   Yeah, I like 'em.

00:05:58   - Wow, yeah, they raised 50 grand on Kickstarter.

00:06:02   It's not calendar money.

00:06:04   There you go, there you go.

00:06:05   There you go, there you go.

00:06:06   I'm just kidding.

00:06:07   Maybe next year you should pivot to making, you know, foam tapes with dates on them.

00:06:13   I could.

00:06:14   Yeah, one for every day, a pair a day.

00:06:17   A pair of...

00:06:18   Oh my God.

00:06:19   So these people have some pretty cool like product imagery, but the, for lack of a better

00:06:23   term, the cover image on the Amazon page, the first one is like an AirPod Pro and then

00:06:29   has the tip and I can't explode it view, but it has the jankiest glow outline around the

00:06:35   components. Why did you make that the default image? I'll tell you why I did it.

00:06:41   Because at small sizes you probably can't tell that these are actually

00:06:46   separate things. I think this is like a designer's way of trying to...

00:06:51   Actually this wasn't the designer's thing, this is the owner who said you need to

00:06:54   make this clearer. So then the designer put a glow behind the element. And then

00:06:58   walked into the ocean. Yeah and then that was the end of that.

00:07:02   you know yeah cool talking about AirPods Pro actually I don't know about you

00:07:07   Federico my AirPods Pro's battery is like on its lost legs now well remember

00:07:13   I got the new ones at some point mid cycle I have the custom ones oh yeah okay

00:07:19   so mine are a thousand days old no because I got them when they came out

00:07:25   and that's that's a thousand days old now I saw on MacRumors I'm charging

00:07:30   I'm charging it like every day. I remember this happened and you guys probably remember

00:07:34   this too with the original AirPods, like before AirPods Pro came out, we were all complaining

00:07:39   the battery wouldn't last because we'd never changed them. So I hope that they release

00:07:47   some new ones soon. It's probably not going to be until September I would expect, but

00:07:52   I'm ready for new AirPods Pro if anything just to get new battery. And I know I could

00:07:56   buy a new case or whatever but I just don't want to do that like I'm just not

00:08:00   going to do that I'm just gonna wait but I I'm ready I'm very ready but imagine a

00:08:05   case wouldn't even make all the difference because it's probably the

00:08:08   batteries and the air pods themselves that's I'm I guess both are probably

00:08:13   wearing out yeah you're right it's probably it's probably a bit of both

00:08:16   that I'm seeing yeah because I feel like I don't know it's the air pods but I

00:08:21   guess that that's not the thing right but yeah yeah okay I see I'm on my third

00:08:25   pair of AirPods 2. They're the ones I like the most and they're all you know

00:08:31   they get old. How are you on your third pair of those? Wait did you say third? Mm-hmm

00:08:37   the first pair yeah it was like basically battery death and then I think

00:08:43   the second one I lost. Wait one said I lost and one said succumb to battery

00:08:49   failure. Didn't you drop a pair in a gym once and decide you didn't want them anymore?

00:08:54   No, that was, my wife and I actually were just talking

00:08:57   about this, so I dropped the case in the gym bathroom.

00:09:02   This is before COVID when I actually like went to a gym

00:09:05   and they skittered across the floor and I thought,

00:09:08   well, I have to replace these.

00:09:10   And I said that jokingly, but I just cleaned them very well.

00:09:13   Believe me, I wanted to replace them because,

00:09:16   Oh, okay.

00:09:16   Oh, but I didn't.

00:09:18   Good gym, yeah.

00:09:19   My wife would have actually murdered me.

00:09:22   I thought I had lost a heart rate sensor in a gym once.

00:09:25   Turns out it was stolen from me, so.

00:09:28   (laughing)

00:09:30   - Yeah, man.

00:09:33   - Pay attention when you are in a gym

00:09:35   or close to people you think are your friends.

00:09:38   - I mean, I wasn't in the gym,

00:09:39   so if now you're saying you lost it in the gym,

00:09:42   then it had nothing to do with me.

00:09:44   - Oh, he thought he lost it in the gym.

00:09:45   - I thought I did.

00:09:46   - But it turns out it wasn't Jim, it was Myke.

00:09:49   Different guy.

00:09:50   - My God.

00:09:51   The enemy was sleeping right next to me.

00:09:54   As they often do, Federico.

00:09:55   The whole time.

00:09:57   We need to pour-

00:10:01   We still have not gotten,

00:10:02   no, we've not gotten to the bottom

00:10:04   of three pairs of AirPods 2.

00:10:07   No, I told you, one was lost, one I replaced

00:10:10   'cause the batteries failed.

00:10:12   So I'm on my third pair.

00:10:13   Oh, okay.

00:10:14   They're right over there on my,

00:10:16   I have a little thing by the door in my studio

00:10:18   that I put my wallet and keys and AirPods on every day.

00:10:20   So you've gone through three pairs of AirPods 2 in the same time that I've had my one pair of AirPods Pro?

00:10:26   Did AirPods 2 and Pro come out at the same time?

00:10:29   No, AirPods 2 came out later.

00:10:32   Ooh, that's not good.

00:10:33   [laughter]

00:10:36   It's probably like halfway through that too, like AirPods 2 were like a year or two ago, right?

00:10:40   What? No, come on.

00:10:42   No, AirPods...

00:10:43   AirPods 2 have been out a long time.

00:10:45   Are we on the AirPods 3? Oh, now we are on the AirPods 3.

00:10:47   Oh, now we're on AirPods 3. Okay.

00:10:50   Which don't work for me.

00:10:51   Let me see.

00:10:53   Audio AirPods second

00:10:55   generation March 2019

00:10:58   AirPods Pro October

00:11:01   2019.

00:11:02   OK, OK.

00:11:03   I mean, this isn't that much better

00:11:05   for you, but it's still not.

00:11:06   It's not a big difference now.

00:11:08   It's better. Yeah, I was I was

00:11:10   thinking AirPods 2 was AirPods 3.

00:11:12   I forgot that the original AirPods

00:11:14   didn't have like wireless charging,

00:11:16   right?

00:11:17   Man, what a good lineup of products.

00:11:19   I mean, can we just say that for a second?

00:11:20   Like, I don't even think,

00:11:23   I don't think Apple was really prepared for like,

00:11:25   what a huge hit these have been.

00:11:27   - Oh no, 'cause they were always out of stock, right?

00:11:29   Like for a long time.

00:11:31   I--

00:11:32   - It was impossible to get them at launch.

00:11:33   - I appreciate Apple's restraint too,

00:11:35   that they don't release a new pair every year.

00:11:37   Like--

00:11:38   - Me too.

00:11:39   - That they wait until they have a substantial update,

00:11:41   it seems, and then they put out a new one.

00:11:43   - They wait till everybody's batteries are dying.

00:11:45   - And then they put out a new one.

00:11:47   So talking about kind of audio hardware, I just saw this today. This is I think mostly aimed at

00:11:53   Federico on variety. Quote, "In the second quarter, Spotify's gross margin was 24.6% compared to 28.4%

00:12:01   the year prior. For the most recent quarter, that was hurt by the decision to stop manufacturing

00:12:07   car things, Spotify's device for connecting smartphones to car entertainment systems,

00:12:11   which resulted in a 31 million dollar, million euro one-time charge.

00:12:16   So they stopped making it and cut it as a loss and then that was the end of that.

00:12:20   I loved Karthing. I thought it was so cool.

00:12:23   I think Jon has one for me that he was supposed to give to me or ship to me or something. I'm not sure.

00:12:33   After a recent episode of one of the Max Stories, uh, podcast, Universe podcasts,

00:12:39   I don't remember which one it was, where you told him about getting rid of...

00:12:44   was it Homepods or Echoes or something?

00:12:47   And he was sounding really upset about the snowstorm.

00:12:50   So I don't think he's gonna give you anything anymore.

00:12:55   Yeah, I don't think he's gonna ship you anything anymore.

00:12:59   Yeah, he's done.

00:13:00   I know.

00:13:00   It's only Big Apple Buddy left for me.

00:13:03   But what do you need anymore, you know?

00:13:07   Do you need any better than Big Apple Buddy?

00:13:09   I don't think so.

00:13:10   - No, exactly.

00:13:11   They still send me weekly emails.

00:13:13   For example, now I can get the Pixel Buds from the US.

00:13:17   - Well, who else doesn't want to hear from their buddies?

00:13:19   - I get physical mail from the animal shelter

00:13:22   that you donated to once on,

00:13:25   or that you picked for me to donate to.

00:13:27   I forget what happened.

00:13:29   They send me a postcard about three times a year

00:13:32   soliciting donations.

00:13:33   - That's great.

00:13:34   - So you get Federico mail.

00:13:37   That's good.

00:13:38   - Yeah, if you don't mind,

00:13:40   I'm also gonna set up a forwarding rule in my Gmail.

00:13:43   - No!

00:13:44   - I mean.

00:13:45   - It's just more Federico mail for you.

00:13:46   - So you can also get that if you want.

00:13:48   - Big application, all email forwarded to Steven.

00:13:51   - I mean, might as well, you know.

00:13:55   So you're getting physical mail, you're getting email.

00:13:58   What is it called in For All Mankind, the DMail?

00:14:01   - DMail.

00:14:02   - Is it what they call it? DMail, yeah.

00:14:04   - I'm like halfway through the season now.

00:14:06   -No spoilers. -Oh, man.

00:14:07   It's intense.

00:14:09   -Yes. -My word.

00:14:11   They ratcheted it up this season.

00:14:13   Wow. I'm loving it though.

00:14:15   Oh my God. The episode from Friday.

00:14:18   Oh my, oh my.

00:14:19   I haven't seen that one yet.

00:14:21   And I know that it's only getting "worse" in terms of intensity

00:14:25   because the creators said that episode eight

00:14:27   is one of the really intense ones.

00:14:29   -Yep. -And that's the one coming out next.

00:14:32   So, yeah.

00:14:34   Steven's seen it.

00:14:35   I saw the finale this weekend.

00:14:36   I'm so jealous.

00:14:39   I'm so jealous.

00:14:40   I now feel like I'm in a race with the show

00:14:44   so I can get to it while I still have my screeners.

00:14:48   Like, the others still, you know.

00:14:51   I've just been watching them on Apple TV at the moment.

00:14:53   It's really good.

00:14:55   Such a good show.

00:14:56   And just renewed for a new season, as was Mythic Quest,

00:14:59   which is another Apple TV Plus show that I really like.

00:15:01   They renewed Mythic Quest?

00:15:02   They did.

00:15:03   Yeah.

00:15:04   - It's a surprise. - I know.

00:15:06   - I'm excited, I'm pleased about it.

00:15:07   - Me too. - It kind of seemed like

00:15:09   they were just gonna do one more, so.

00:15:11   - Their, if you haven't watched "Mythic Quest,"

00:15:13   it's definitely worth a watch,

00:15:14   but their COVID episode in season two

00:15:17   is maybe the best episode of TV on Apple TV+.

00:15:21   It's so good.

00:15:22   - It is really good.

00:15:24   I think it's the only good COVID special episode.

00:15:29   Lots of shows tried to do that kind of thing,

00:15:31   and "Mythic Quest" pulled it off really, really well.

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00:17:22   Wanna talk a little bit about Apple Store stuff.

00:17:24   How does that sound?

00:17:25   - All right, okay.

00:17:27   - Okay.

00:17:28   Michael Stieber used to cover Apple retail for nine to five Mac and then went out on his own a while back

00:17:33   He's got a newsletter now, which is great called tabletop

00:17:36   he covers

00:17:39   Apple retail better than I think anyone else and he has put together

00:17:43   What he's calling the Apple store time machine. There's a link in the show notes. Check it out. It's a Mac app that lets you explore

00:17:52   For Apple stores as they were on specific dates in the past

00:17:56   So he has Tyson's corner, which was the first Apple store open and it's the way it was in May 2001 when it opened

00:18:04   He has Stanford shopping center in October of 2004, which was the first mini Apple store

00:18:10   Do you guys ever come across those the mini stores? I've seen any pictures but never in real life

00:18:16   I don't think I know what that means. So it is a or was they don't do any more

00:18:21   they were like a half width Apple store. Like Myke, do you

00:18:25   remember the old Apple store here before they moved across

00:18:28   the street? Yeah, it was like half of that width. So it was

00:18:33   narrow and they did brush metal on all the walls and it was just

00:18:36   like, basically less third party stuff on it in it. Okay. And in

00:18:42   it. It's anyways, the Stanford shopping center was the first

00:18:46   one. So he's recreated that. And then the first day that the Fifth

00:18:51   Avenue store was open and when when they reopened the Apple

00:18:54   infinite loop store in 2015. Now that's basically like a regular

00:18:58   Apple store with some t shirts in it. It used to be like when I

00:19:01   was out there in 2007. It was basically all merchandise. So

00:19:06   you can walk through these stores and experience them.

00:19:10   There's tons of little Easter eggs in it. The attention to

00:19:13   detail is really, really cool. And if you if you spend a lot of

00:19:18   time in Apple stores like I did in the past, it really kind of

00:19:21   took me back in a way that I wasn't expecting.

00:19:23   How did he get this information?

00:19:26   I don't understand.

00:19:28   I don't know.

00:19:29   I don't know.

00:19:31   I mean, it's so detailed.

00:19:32   Like he's had some tweets about it,

00:19:33   about how one of the stores,

00:19:35   like the launch pictures included

00:19:37   like a certain type of graphic on the wall.

00:19:40   And then when it opened, it was different.

00:19:42   So like he had to contend with that.

00:19:43   It's all very impressive.

00:19:46   This is a Stephen Hackett project if I've ever seen one.

00:19:48   This is like Stephen bait.

00:19:50   [LAUGHTER]

00:19:51   I think he knew that when he told me about it.

00:19:54   This was built with Unity, the game engine, I believe.

00:19:57   It was.

00:19:58   Huh.

00:19:59   Yeah.

00:19:59   Yeah.

00:20:00   This is so impressive.

00:20:01   So you have to download the Mac app, and then--

00:20:04   OK.

00:20:05   I don't think I did that.

00:20:07   If I'm not mistaken, Michael is relatively new to 3D graphics

00:20:12   and animations.

00:20:13   So this is excellent work.

00:20:15   I mean, packaged this way in this sort

00:20:18   of interactive experience.

00:20:19   I mean, it's a remarkable idea and the execution is also,

00:20:24   like it's really well done.

00:20:27   And the historical knowledge behind this

00:20:29   is really impressive.

00:20:31   Like to go back and find the exact layout of a store

00:20:34   from 20 years ago, down to the posters on the wall

00:20:37   and the boxed software on the shelves,

00:20:40   like that's honestly impressive.

00:20:42   - I'd forgotten some of the things in here,

00:20:44   like, and there's a little glimpse

00:20:46   in the little preview trailer of the New York store.

00:20:49   There used to be a separate iPod Genius bar for a minute

00:20:52   and they have that on the wall.

00:20:54   And it's really cool.

00:20:58   You should definitely check it out.

00:20:59   It's a bit of a big download.

00:21:00   It's like 600 megs as you may imagine.

00:21:03   It's free, but there is a tip jar.

00:21:05   Definitely donate some to this works.

00:21:08   It is really cool.

00:21:10   - The Tysons Corner one,

00:21:14   Is that the one where Steve Jobs made the video?

00:21:17   - So I don't actually, I think it is.

00:21:21   I don't want to say 100% sure,

00:21:23   but that video that you're talking about

00:21:25   is filmed in a store just like it.

00:21:27   If it's not Tyson Corner,

00:21:28   then it's a mock-up that's basically exactly like it.

00:21:32   - Right, and it could have actually

00:21:33   not even been a real Apple store, right?

00:21:34   - Right, 'cause they, it's in the,

00:21:37   I forget what book it's in,

00:21:40   but there's some book, Apple book,

00:21:41   that's floated around the last couple of years

00:21:44   that they had like a big warehouse

00:21:45   that they mocked the stores up in.

00:21:47   And he would go.

00:21:48   - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:50   - And talk about it.

00:21:51   It was cool.

00:21:54   I'm trying to find that video and see.

00:21:56   I'm gonna say that,

00:21:56   I'm just gonna say yes, he went to Tyson Corner.

00:21:58   - I found a version of this video

00:22:00   that I'll put in the show notes.

00:22:03   - Yeah.

00:22:04   - It's a problem with a lot of this stuff gets taken down,

00:22:06   so you may just have to Google it for yourself,

00:22:09   but there's a bunch of options.

00:22:11   It says Tyson's Corner, Virginia.

00:22:13   it says it in the description of this video.

00:22:15   - The story he's walking through

00:22:16   is how the Memphis store looked.

00:22:18   'Cause the Memphis store was the 20th open,

00:22:21   it was one of the first ones

00:22:22   and it looked just like that for a long time.

00:22:25   And so when I went through that one, I was like,

00:22:27   oh gosh, like I'm back at my job in 2006 and seven.

00:22:31   - You mentioned a book, "Briefer Side."

00:22:34   I started reading "After Steve."

00:22:37   I know that you and David did a MacPauley's special about it

00:22:42   which I'm looking forward to listening to when I'm done.

00:22:44   Two things.

00:22:45   One, I thought it was just about Johnny Ive for some reason.

00:22:47   I don't know why I thought that, but it's not.

00:22:49   I was like, oh, Tim Cook's in here too.

00:22:51   I didn't know that.

00:22:52   I think it's just so much of the focus

00:22:54   before the book came out

00:22:55   seemed to be about the Johnny Ive stuff

00:22:57   and like Johnny Ive leaving and all that kind of stuff.

00:22:59   But I am really enjoying it.

00:23:03   I think it's very interesting and well-written.

00:23:05   I like it.

00:23:07   - The other Apple Store story we wanna talk about,

00:23:09   Myke, you sent this to me this morning.

00:23:10   So when I open this link, it has a little shared by Myke

00:23:13   Boehner at the top.

00:23:15   Tell us about this new London Apple store.

00:23:17   - Yeah, Apple have opened a new store

00:23:19   called Apple Brompton Road.

00:23:22   So it's another, so I think this is now

00:23:23   the third Apple store in London.

00:23:27   This is in the Knightsbridge neighborhood.

00:23:29   It's near Hyde Park.

00:23:30   The kind of the key thing here with this store

00:23:33   is it's near the Harrods department store,

00:23:36   which I expect a lot of people might be

00:23:38   at least familiar with the name.

00:23:40   So it is in an area, a shopping area of London

00:23:43   with a lot of very, very high-end luxury retail.

00:23:47   Like the most expensive of expensive stores

00:23:51   are in this part of London.

00:23:53   I don't know if that's why they've opened a store here,

00:23:56   but they did note in the press release

00:23:58   that this store has 200 employees speaking 45 languages.

00:24:03   - That's cool.

00:24:04   - Now that would be very helpful

00:24:05   for where this store is located,

00:24:07   because people come from all over the world

00:24:10   and shop in Knightsbridge.

00:24:14   So it makes sense to me that they would do that.

00:24:17   And as you can imagine, like any new Apple store,

00:24:22   it is absolutely stunning inside.

00:24:26   I will make a trip to this store at some point.

00:24:29   Like if I'm gonna be in and around that part of London,

00:24:32   I'm gonna go here because it is beautiful.

00:24:37   So it's got like this timber, the curved timber ceiling,

00:24:40   like the roof ceiling.

00:24:42   It looks really beautiful.

00:24:43   It's got that like limestone walls that I've seen in,

00:24:46   especially in a lot of the London stores, they've done this.

00:24:49   And I think that the store that you went to Federico

00:24:52   had a similar kind of stone on the wall.

00:24:55   - Yeah, what's the name of that one?

00:24:56   What was that one?

00:24:58   - Wasn't that the one where they renovated the...

00:25:01   - Yeah.

00:25:02   Was it Regent Street?

00:25:05   Was it Regent Street?

00:25:05   I was meaning the one that you went to in Rome was it or in Milan in Rome?

00:25:10   I went to the Regent Street store. I think was the first store that got this kind of yeah outfit to it

00:25:17   Yeah, but it's this beautiful stone and then it also has to write so flooring which is very on trend for right now

00:25:23   Somebody wrote in our document here on fleek you mean hashtag damn Daniel

00:25:28   Yeah, you said on trend and I was just trying to show you how it was you you said damn Daniel

00:25:34   Because we've had this in the past where you don't know what that is.

00:25:36   I do know what it is.

00:25:37   No, he knows what damn dang it is.

00:25:41   And there's a bunch of Sicilian ficus trees, which have those planters on the bottom that

00:25:45   you can sit on, which I think were a great addition to the Apple Store.

00:25:50   Somewhere you can sit.

00:25:51   Because a lot of time you're in the Apple Store, you have to wait for something.

00:25:54   So being able to sit somewhere is really good.

00:25:56   Well they also have those like boxes in the back near the screen with no backs that you

00:26:01   can sit on and be uncomfortable.

00:26:04   Yeah, but sometimes there's things going on there, right?

00:26:07   Yeah.

00:26:07   So like you don't want to go and sit because then you're like being sucked into the presentation.

00:26:13   This is also the first UK store with a pickup area, which...

00:26:17   Mmm, a place to put my truck.

00:26:19   Mmm, yes.

00:26:20   Sure.

00:26:21   Which this is a thing that I thought Apple were just doing during the pandemic, but I

00:26:25   guess it's kind of stuck around now, which is the...

00:26:30   This is basically you can buy things online and pick like you can pick them up in a store,

00:26:34   but instead of needing to flag someone down in the store, you can just go to the pickup

00:26:39   area, which I think is a very good thing to be able to do rather than trying to just like

00:26:44   rugby tackle someone as they're walking by so you can get seen.

00:26:49   This changed during COVID. So for a while, at least here in the US, stores that were

00:26:52   closed because of COVID, some of them had pickup area and it was like a fake storefront

00:26:59   in the front of the store.

00:27:00   So like one person go in,

00:27:01   you could walk about three feet into the building

00:27:03   and then they hand you your stuff through a window.

00:27:05   Now what they're doing, at least in my store

00:27:07   and I think in others, is if you have a pickup,

00:27:09   you get stopped at the door

00:27:10   and you're sort of siphoned off to the side

00:27:13   and they've taken one of the tables along the wall

00:27:16   for pickup.

00:27:18   And so they scan your thing

00:27:19   and a runner goes and gets your iPhone or whatever

00:27:22   and brings it out to you.

00:27:24   So they have adapted this a little bit,

00:27:26   but I really like this idea of a dedicated pickup space

00:27:30   and like how good does that table look?

00:27:32   I mean, I love the way the store looks.

00:27:34   - Yeah, it's a beautiful table.

00:27:35   - It's really cool.

00:27:36   - Yeah, I will pop in there at some point.

00:27:39   - Yeah, pick something up.

00:27:41   You know, pick something up.

00:27:43   And so I hope to see more stores adopt

00:27:47   this sort of style of pickup thing

00:27:49   where it's a little bit of a nicer experience

00:27:51   in being sort of roped off to the side.

00:27:54   I mean, I know not all stores are this big and glamorous,

00:27:56   but all in all, like more people just across the board,

00:28:00   across retail are doing like online shopping

00:28:03   for in-store pickup.

00:28:04   I mean, I feel like every website I've ever visited

00:28:06   in the last two years have offered that to me now.

00:28:09   And hopefully Apple can continue to tweak their stores

00:28:13   to adapt to that a little bit better.

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00:30:02   I've got a computer here.

00:30:05   - Just one?

00:30:06   - Like 87.

00:30:08   - That was so good.

00:30:11   - No, that was good.

00:30:12   The M2 MacBook Air that we ordered came in yesterday.

00:30:16   So I haven't had a ton of time with it,

00:30:18   but something very funny happened

00:30:21   basically right after I unboxed it.

00:30:23   So I unboxed it and I had it on Mary's desk in the house

00:30:28   and she's been using an M1 MacBook Air since it came out.

00:30:32   But before that, she was on an Intel MacBook Air

00:30:34   and before that, a 12 inch MacBook.

00:30:37   And before that, the old 11 inch MacBook Air.

00:30:41   So she has been using wedge-shaped computers

00:30:44   for a long time.

00:30:46   And she picked it up and she said, "Why is this so thick?"

00:30:49   And it blew my mind.

00:30:51   I was like, wait, no, it's like super thin and lightweight.

00:30:53   But she was expecting the wedge shape

00:30:55   'cause she picked it up from the front edge.

00:30:57   And so I sort of like showed her the side

00:30:58   and how it was the same profile all the way through.

00:31:00   Anyways, that just sort of struck me

00:31:02   because we've been talking about the shape change a lot,

00:31:04   but the three of us haven't used a wedge-shaped laptop

00:31:07   as our main notebook for a long, long time.

00:31:10   And it cracked me up that that was her sort of immediate response.

00:31:13   Do you think, is she not into it?

00:31:16   I think she is.

00:31:16   I mean, she basically picked it up and then I took it and, um, brought it out

00:31:20   here to the office and she hasn't spent any time with it, but she also basically

00:31:24   uses her laptop as a desktop, so it's just going to show, you know, be put into

00:31:29   a stand behind her LG ultra fine.

00:31:32   So, uh, we'll see how that goes, but, um, I'm into it.

00:31:35   I think it's really cool.

00:31:36   I transferred stuff from my MacBook Pro to it.

00:31:39   So I'm gonna use it for a couple of weeks

00:31:40   before it becomes hers.

00:31:42   And the thing that struck me, I knew this

00:31:44   'cause I'd read all the reviews and watched all the reviews,

00:31:46   but when it's closed, it's as thick as the,

00:31:49   just the bottom part of my 14 inch MacBook Pro.

00:31:51   Like it is, I kind of, they're side by side right now

00:31:54   on my desk, they're shocking, it is shockingly thinner.

00:31:56   - One place where you found this out

00:31:58   was when I told you this last week,

00:32:00   I said these words to you last week on the show.

00:32:02   - On the show? - Mm-hmm.

00:32:03   - Like I said, I listen to a lot of Apple podcasts.

00:32:05   I mean, who knows where ideas come from?

00:32:07   - This was just a conversation me and you had, you know?

00:32:09   Like, I mean, it was on the show, but.

00:32:11   That is a great part of it.

00:32:13   I still remain surprised at how it feels to hold.

00:32:18   Like, it feels, this is a bad word, but like,

00:32:22   inconsequential, like it just doesn't really feel like much,

00:32:26   which I really like.

00:32:28   - Yeah.

00:32:28   - And, but I am also, I was,

00:32:30   I haven't spent a ton of time using it like a laptop.

00:32:34   Like I've used it mostly as I use my current laptop,

00:32:37   which is plugged into a monitor, right?

00:32:39   But I was doing some stuff last night at home

00:32:43   on the MacBook Air itself, and it still feels so sturdy.

00:32:47   Like it's super thin, but it still feels like,

00:32:51   it's not like the thing is bending or flexing.

00:32:54   Like it is a solid piece of equipment.

00:32:58   - Yeah, I mean, they've really gotten this whole

00:33:01   unibody architecture thing down so well.

00:33:03   and that means they can make something super thin.

00:33:06   I mean, even the 12 inch MacBook felt solid

00:33:09   in a way that it probably shouldn't have.

00:33:11   Like just, you know, if you just like looked

00:33:12   at the specs on paper.

00:33:14   But yeah, it feels great.

00:33:16   And what I like about it immediately

00:33:20   is the difference between the Air and the Pro.

00:33:22   I mean, having them side by side, you know,

00:33:23   13.6 inches versus 14 inch screen size.

00:33:26   Like it is a little bit smaller.

00:33:28   It's not drastically smaller footprint wise.

00:33:30   The ports, the thinness, the silent operation,

00:33:33   like it lets the MacBook Pro be thicker with more ports

00:33:36   with fans and everything like I like the,

00:33:39   I like that there's more distinguishing features

00:33:41   between the two lines.

00:33:42   I think we spoke about that last week

00:33:43   and having it now here in person,

00:33:45   like it doesn't feel like a light version of my MacBook Pro.

00:33:49   It feels like a MacBook Air,

00:33:51   kind of like the way they used to like back, you know,

00:33:53   in the 2010 MacBook Air era, you know,

00:33:56   the pre retina, the 11 and 13 inch,

00:33:58   that sort of generation of MacBook Air,

00:34:01   how the MacBook Air was like noticeably different

00:34:03   than the MacBook Pro.

00:34:05   And that ultimately meant the demise

00:34:09   of that generation of MacBook Air

00:34:10   'cause it never got the retina display.

00:34:12   But now it has like almost all the good parts

00:34:15   of the MacBook Pro, but with the trade offs dialed,

00:34:19   you know, a little bit differently

00:34:20   to give you a different experience.

00:34:23   And it's a great little machine.

00:34:25   I mean, I'm gonna finish setting it up this evening

00:34:28   and my plan is to use it as my notebook,

00:34:30   which actually next week, due to uninteresting reasons,

00:34:33   I'm actually going to be on my laptop a good bit.

00:34:35   I'm not going to be in the office very much next week.

00:34:37   And so I expect to put it through my, put it through its paces, uh, in a bigger

00:34:41   way, but so far just, you know, getting it out of the box, setting it up, using it

00:34:45   a little bit, it's, it's a very impressive little machine.

00:34:48   Do you think that you will be tempted to get one?

00:34:51   I am very happy with the 14 inch MacBook pro and I really like having

00:34:56   HDMI and SD card slot.

00:34:58   So I don't think so.

00:34:59   I want to know what kind of user.

00:35:02   What kind of connected listener do you think

00:35:07   should consider this computer instead of a MacBook Pro?

00:35:10   - Honestly, the way I think about this,

00:35:13   and this really, I think, has been true

00:35:14   in the Apple Silicon era,

00:35:16   is your default answer should be the Air

00:35:18   unless you have a specific reason to go to the Pro.

00:35:21   So if you have multi-threaded workflows

00:35:25   that really benefit from the bigger system on a chip

00:35:28   found in the MacBook Pro,

00:35:30   or if you need HDMI and SD card stuff on a regular basis

00:35:35   and you don't want to deal with dongles as much.

00:35:40   I mean, really in the time I've had my MacBook Pro,

00:35:43   I got rid of my big like multi-dongle thing,

00:35:45   I took it out of my bag and I put it in my,

00:35:48   just in the drawer and I just have a couple of USB-C

00:35:51   to A ones in my bag now.

00:35:52   So those sorts of things are nice,

00:35:54   but I think everyone should start with,

00:35:57   does the MacBook Air meet my needs?

00:35:58   And only if you have serious workflow requirements,

00:36:03   do you move up.

00:36:04   And with the M2,

00:36:06   even if that means like editing 4K video occasionally,

00:36:10   I don't think that disqualifies the MacBook Air anymore.

00:36:12   Now, if you're doing really complicated video stuff,

00:36:16   if you're doing a lot of heavy software development,

00:36:18   if you're doing a lot of really complicated audio stuff,

00:36:22   sure, the MacBook Pro is gonna serve you really well.

00:36:25   But that's a pretty small group of people, I think,

00:36:28   out in the real world, and I think especially with the M2,

00:36:32   you get such incredible performance,

00:36:36   then don't go up to the probe unless you really have to.

00:36:39   Myke, you've had yours for, or Apple's now,

00:36:41   for a little bit now.

00:36:44   How have you come along in your decision-making

00:36:47   about getting one for yourself?

00:36:49   - Well, I haven't canceled that order.

00:36:51   - Mm-hmm.

00:36:54   And I'm still in the phase where it's early, right?

00:36:59   Like the earliest I'm gonna get that machine

00:37:01   is like, I think the middle of August.

00:37:05   So I'm still giving,

00:37:07   I need to send this laptop back to Apple next week.

00:37:11   And so my plan is to make my decision before I do that.

00:37:15   I did buy a 12 South Book ark thing.

00:37:21   - Yeah, yeah.

00:37:23   which would be for my MacBook Pro

00:37:27   to be permanently plugged into a monitor on my desk.

00:37:31   So I did commit to that part, right?

00:37:34   Because then the idea is the MacBook Pro

00:37:35   becomes the machine that I record and edit on.

00:37:38   So I committed to those $50 or whatever.

00:37:42   At the moment, it's looking really likely

00:37:45   because I very much enjoy this MacBook Air in my bag

00:37:50   every day way more than putting the MacBook Pro

00:37:53   in my bag every day and carrying it around

00:37:56   'cause it's just like easier, the bag is less full,

00:37:59   it's easier to put my Steam Deck in my backpack

00:38:01   because the Steam Deck in the case is like mammoth.

00:38:05   So I don't know, at the moment I'm leaning towards it.

00:38:10   I still don't feel great about the fact that it's like

00:38:15   that I have nothing to sell to help fund it

00:38:19   But I might just kind of bite the bullet

00:38:21   and commit to not be upgrading again

00:38:24   for another couple of years of either of these laptops

00:38:26   is the plan, if I do it.

00:38:29   - Interesting.

00:38:30   Well, I'm not buying one for anyone

00:38:32   who might be curious about this.

00:38:33   So that's my opinion.

00:38:36   It looks really good.

00:38:37   - You're using a 14 inch MacBook Pro, right?

00:38:39   - Yeah, I'm using that one right now.

00:38:42   I honestly like, it's just so nice to have all this power

00:38:47   and I love my chunky computer, you know?

00:38:51   - Yeah, but you're not moving it around, right?

00:38:54   This is the thing of like, I'm taking it--

00:38:55   - No, that's the thing.

00:38:56   - Or like it's in my backpack all the time.

00:38:59   And so I kind of want the smallest,

00:39:01   lightest computer for that,

00:39:03   but still being able to take advantage of the power

00:39:06   of my MacBook Pro in the thing that I need it the most for.

00:39:11   'Cause like the thing that I need the most power for,

00:39:15   I'm currently using an M1 iMac with 16 gigabytes of RAM for that.

00:39:19   Yeah.

00:39:20   So I think that this will allow for a more logical reshifting of the computers

00:39:24   that I have,

00:39:25   but I do feel like three computers is too many computers for one man to have.

00:39:29   Yeah. I mean, I've got a little bit of that too.

00:39:31   Like I've got the Mac studio and that's my machine 98% of the time.

00:39:36   Like I could get away easily with a MacBook Air. I think as my notebook,

00:39:40   I got the 14 inch MacBook Pro and really love it. But like if I, if it,

00:39:45   Like say that it got destroyed or lost or stolen

00:39:49   or something like, I don't know if I'd replace it

00:39:51   with a MacBook Pro again.

00:39:54   - So we do have beta four of iOS and iPadOS 16

00:39:58   and all the other OS's, Ventura, watchOS, HomePod

00:40:01   and whatever, all the other stuff that we don't care about.

00:40:03   - TVOS baby.

00:40:05   - TVOS, so there's a few things I wanna touch upon,

00:40:07   a few changes that I've noticed

00:40:09   that I wanna cover in here.

00:40:11   So there's now an official developer documentation

00:40:14   for the live activities.

00:40:17   That's the special notifications that will go live later

00:40:20   this year, not as part of iOS 16.

00:40:23   That's the stuff for real-time updates, basically,

00:40:27   that they showed off at WWDC for Uber and sports apps.

00:40:30   You want to keep track of the game.

00:40:31   Want to keep track of your food delivery order, whatever.

00:40:36   There's now an official API and documentation for developers.

00:40:40   So if you're interested in building for that,

00:40:43   I believe it's called Activity Kit.

00:40:44   So go check it out, there's documentation now.

00:40:47   Some interesting changes to iMessage

00:40:51   when it comes to the two features

00:40:56   arguably that Apple is kind of copying from WhatsApp this year.

00:41:00   So unsending and editing messages.

00:41:03   There's a couple of changes in here worth noting.

00:41:07   Now you can unsend a message for up to two minutes

00:41:13   after sending it.

00:41:15   I believe they took this down from 15 minutes, right?

00:41:18   Used to be 15 minutes.

00:41:20   - I thought that meant it was more time.

00:41:22   - Am I mistaken?

00:41:24   Am I mistaken?

00:41:25   - No, I think you might be right.

00:41:26   I think you might be right.

00:41:27   - You can still edit for up to 15 minutes,

00:41:32   but now you can only unsend for up to two minutes.

00:41:36   So that's the change in this week's beta.

00:41:39   And you can still edit for 15 minutes.

00:41:41   For edits-- now, this is a fascinating change

00:41:44   that Apple is making here.

00:41:46   For edits, you can make up to five edits for any given

00:41:51   message, and the recipients will see a record of all the edits

00:41:57   in the message.

00:41:58   So there's a new--

00:42:00   if you-- and I just tried this with a group chat that we have.

00:42:04   If you edit a message, there's a new edited button.

00:42:08   You can tap that, and it'll show you

00:42:09   log of all the previous versions of the message.

00:42:14   And looks like you guys are also making these edits, and I can tap on...

00:42:18   Yeah, I want to see it now.

00:42:20   You can see that.

00:42:21   Oh, yeah, look at that.

00:42:22   Yeah, you can see the log.

00:42:23   You get little ghost messages.

00:42:24   Yeah, yeah.

00:42:25   So once again, Apple has done this better than Twitter, but that's a different conversation.

00:42:31   Anyway, and lastly, I also wanted to cover, well, first of all, sadly,

00:42:37   doesn't look like there's any changes on the iPadOS side of things.

00:42:41   And I can actually tell you that one of the requests that I filed for Stage Manager,

00:42:48   specifically the option to transfer an entire workspace of apps to an external display.

00:42:56   So the idea of taking three, four apps on your iPad and clicking a button or pressing a hotkey

00:43:03   to say move all of this at once to an external display.

00:43:08   My request was denied because I got a response from the feedback app

00:43:13   saying we decided not to pursue or whatever this feature right now.

00:43:17   So, you know, sad trombone. But yeah, that's...

00:43:20   Federico who? Am I right? You know what I'm saying?

00:43:23   I like being a carer with that guy.

00:43:25   We don't care about that guy.

00:43:27   That's what you get for not going to WWDC, you know?

00:43:30   I know. I know. I know.

00:43:31   I deserve it, I deserve it.

00:43:33   You don't care, we don't care.

00:43:35   And for Mail, they also brought some changes for the undo send feature.

00:43:42   Now you can turn that on or off in settings and you can set the duration for the undo send time.

00:43:49   And I believe you can also turn on and off the follow-up preference in settings.

00:43:56   So if you want to be reminded to follow up in some messages and you don't care about following up

00:44:00   up in other people you can turn that off in settings. You know you've reminded me

00:44:04   of something about mail which I just think is so ridiculous that schedule

00:44:08   send thing that the computer has to be on for that to work. Yeah. Yeah. I just I

00:44:14   know why like because of the way that Apple does things etc etc why that's the

00:44:18   case but like why would you use that feature like you I don't know it just

00:44:24   seems so silly to me like I mean also I would just say like maybe this is just a

00:44:28   thing. I don't even, I don't, I know why people do it.

00:44:31   I don't understand why people do it. Like if you do in the email,

00:44:34   just send the email like you do in the email to send it.

00:44:39   But I guess, but that's just me.

00:44:42   I know that different people like to do things different ways of wise.

00:44:45   These features wouldn't exist, but.

00:44:46   There's, there's also an update in settings notifications.

00:44:50   I spoke last time about the stacking versus list,

00:44:53   and now there's a little drawing showing you what they look like.

00:44:58   Yeah, we thought this would happen, right?

00:45:00   Because it was just very strange to be like,

00:45:02   here are these three things you've never heard of before.

00:45:05   You work it out.

00:45:06   Yeah, and I'm back on, as a follow-up from last week,

00:45:09   I am back on ListView.

00:45:11   I just kind of got tired of losing things to the ether

00:45:14   and the background of the stack.

00:45:16   So ListView for me.

00:45:18   You're gonna upset the count.

00:45:20   Wait, did you stop the count?

00:45:24   Is that what you did?

00:45:26   Wow. Oh my god, Myke. I just got it. Oh my god. That's like an- that's very bad and perfect at the same time.

00:45:36   That's what I was going for, you know?

00:45:38   I- I hate it and I love it.

00:45:41   You know what? Just hold a news conference outside of lawn care company and talk about it.

00:45:45   What a wild time to be alive, you know? What a time to be alive.

00:45:50   Oh god.

00:45:52   I wonder if this beta will make my phone less hot.

00:45:54   My phone gets so hot right now.

00:45:57   Like if sometimes it like it hurts to hold my iPhone.

00:46:00   Oh, oh, gosh. Mine's not that bad.

00:46:03   Well, I don't use a case.

00:46:04   Oh, yeah. I guess the leather is absorbing some heat for me.

00:46:07   I'm getting like complete, you know,

00:46:10   I'm getting complete like phone to skin transfer.

00:46:15   It's very hot.

00:46:15   I'm running the watchOS beta 2.

00:46:19   I don't see an update for that yet.

00:46:20   But other than a couple of days where the battery life's been kind of bad,

00:46:24   it's been totally fine.

00:46:26   And I really like the new some of the new workout stuff,

00:46:29   like some of the new split views and stuff when you're on a walk or run

00:46:33   are pretty nice.

00:46:34   It's it's mostly good stuff this year so far, I think.

00:46:37   I've held off on the watch.

00:46:39   I'm still holding off on the watch, but I was nervous about doing it

00:46:42   because it's is it still impossible to undo?

00:46:45   I think it is.

00:46:47   But I was I've been pleasantly surprised with it.

00:46:49   Is it impossible to undo?

00:46:51   It used to be. I don't know about anymore.

00:46:54   Stage Manager feels like smoother to rearrange stuff.

00:46:59   Snappier.

00:47:00   To me on my iPad. Snappier. Like Safari snappier.

00:47:02   But...

00:47:04   Feel snappier?

00:47:05   Yeah, there isn't really. They've still got that thing where like if you try and add another

00:47:09   window and it's like "later on this is coming later, stop asking! Leave me alone!"

00:47:15   "No, you gotta use drag and drop for now!"

00:47:18   Don't do this.

00:47:20   Please stop.

00:47:21   Why would you click that button, man?

00:47:23   Come on, don't do this.

00:47:25   What I think they've done with Stage Manager is there may be,

00:47:29   when you mention it's smoother,

00:47:31   I think what they've done is they're making some adjustments

00:47:34   in terms of when you remove an app from the stage,

00:47:39   they recenter the only one app left.

00:47:43   And I think that's a little bit smoother than before.

00:47:45   And that makes sense, right?

00:47:46   because if I'm removing stuff from the workspace and I'm left with just one app,

00:47:52   it's fine if you want to zoom it and center it on screen.

00:47:55   I think that part is a little bit smoother.

00:47:57   I don't see any new keyboard shortcuts, I don't see any particular new gestures,

00:48:01   but I agree, it does feel, based on these five minutes that I play with it,

00:48:05   it does seem a bit more fluid.

00:48:08   How many apps can you have on a stage?

00:48:11   Four.

00:48:12   It's just for I wondered if it was a limit of the iPad

00:48:15   No, it's up to four on the iPad and another four on the display so you can do up to eight in

00:48:22   In theory, but that's you know four on the iPad four under display my my rule-breaking

00:48:27   iPad because I have the 64 gigabyte no memory swap iPad of which stage manager runs perfectly fine on

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00:50:00   Capital One what's in your wallet?

00:50:04   Man, I was just I wanted to try you guys so hard just now

00:50:07   But I thought it wasn't fair to the passionate ones because I wanted to ask the question

00:50:12   Do you have either of you ever or do you currently track your sleep?

00:50:17   And I've thought it would be fun to pose that as a quiz question

00:50:20   That felt unfair, you know, like it was I wanted to troll you

00:50:27   I don't want to troll every listener by letting them think the quiz is about to begin

00:50:31   The quiz is not about to begin, but I would like to know, have either of you ever tracked

00:50:37   your sleep?

00:50:38   I have.

00:50:40   I've done it.

00:50:41   Do you currently?

00:50:42   No, I do not.

00:50:44   Why?

00:50:45   Because I, because everything, my life is very complicated right now and there's no,

00:50:51   I just, I have to wake up early.

00:50:55   So honestly, I've kind of settled on an…

00:51:00   I think I've gotten better at knowing when I gotta go to sleep and I think the change

00:51:08   is that I've become an alarm clock person.

00:51:11   It used to be, you know, many, many years ago you guys used to make fun of the fact

00:51:15   that Sylvia would wake me up in the morning with a cup of coffee and now I just…

00:51:22   Maybe I'm a bit more responsible.

00:51:23   I set an alarm and I wake up when the alarm goes off.

00:51:28   And so now I think I have a pretty good sense of when I'm supposed to go to sleep

00:51:31   and I get my six hours, six and a half hours of sleep, and I'm fine,

00:51:35   and I'm good for the day.

00:51:37   And I just feel like I don't need to anymore.

00:51:39   I feel like the tracking gave me a framework.

00:51:45   Like, it helped me build the structure years ago.

00:51:50   And there's still the occasional like, "Oh, shoot, it's 5 a.m."

00:51:54   and I just stayed up binging a TV show or playing a video game.

00:51:58   But that hasn't happened in a while.

00:52:00   And I just know that, you know, because I have commitments in the early morning,

00:52:05   I'm just, uh...

00:52:06   I don't track my sleep because I know when I need to wake up anyway.

00:52:10   So what do you mean it gave you a framework, though?

00:52:12   Like, I'm interested to see, like, what did you feel like you gained from it?

00:52:16   Yeah, so I feel like when I used to do it,

00:52:19   First of all, it helped me understand I have this sort of hard limit in my body, I guess,

00:52:28   where if I sleep less than six hours, I'm not going to have a good time in the morning.

00:52:33   Like, that's like my ideal threshold.

00:52:37   Like six hours is okay, seven hours you can do it.

00:52:42   I go under six hours, I'm going to have a bad time.

00:52:46   I go over seven hours, I'm also going to have a bad time because I'm going to feel groggy

00:52:51   the whole...yeah, if I sleep too much, not great.

00:52:54   Oh, interesting.

00:52:55   I guess that happens when you get older, you know, you can sleep less, but if you sleep

00:53:00   more then you also feel that.

00:53:03   There's the...like again, there's the occasional time where I'm super exhausted the night before

00:53:10   and I can sleep eight hours, but that's like twice a year, I think.

00:53:16   But ideally, you know, in between six and seven hours is my ideal state.

00:53:24   And that's the sort of discovery that I made by tracking my sleep years ago.

00:53:30   We're talking like four or five years ago.

00:53:33   And honestly, and this is also kind of weird,

00:53:36   I, at the time, I, like, there was one time when I turned 30,

00:53:42   when I really felt my body change,

00:53:47   like, sort of, I don't know, but it felt like I,

00:53:50   I remember distinctly, like, a week that I, I don't know,

00:53:55   I started feeling different from before.

00:53:58   I was like, "Hmm, I guess I'm growing older now,

00:54:02   and I can feel it."

00:54:02   And, yeah, that's when I, you know,

00:54:05   started with sleep tracking, taking account of those numbers,

00:54:12   and understanding, okay, the day that I slept five hours,

00:54:14   I can see that I don't feel so great.

00:54:17   The day that I got a good six and a half hours, I'm feeling pretty good.

00:54:21   And you do that for enough months, you start seeing a pattern in there.

00:54:26   And so now I know, if I need to wake up at 9.30,

00:54:29   I better go to sleep at 3.30 or something,

00:54:32   because otherwise I'm not going to have a good time in the morning.

00:54:34   So that was useful to sort of understand.

00:54:37   What did you use to do it?

00:54:40   Mmm. Mmm. Not the Apple solution, I'll tell you that.

00:54:44   [Laughter]

00:54:45   Because the—so I'm very confused by the Apple way of doing things,

00:54:50   because when I did it years ago, it wanted to—

00:54:54   like, I really disliked the setting a schedule,

00:54:58   because that's the thing. I don't want to set a schedule.

00:55:01   I just want to know, like, I'm setting the alarm for the morning, each night in the clock app.

00:55:07   That's what I want to do. And then I sort of, I want to self-regulate, if you wish, like,

00:55:13   I'm setting the alarm and I know when I gotta go to sleep. Apple wanted me to have like a schedule

00:55:19   for every day of the week. Yeah, like, you go to sleep at this time or wake up at this time.

00:55:23   It's like, no, life doesn't really work like that. Exactly. It feels like, I don't know,

00:55:28   I don't know if things have changed in the meantime,

00:55:30   but it felt like a feature designed for people who go to the office every morning

00:55:34   and who commute at a specific time every morning.

00:55:37   Which, hey, is the right way to build that tool, right?

00:55:40   Because that is the majority of the world.

00:55:42   They have a schedule.

00:55:44   Exactly.

00:55:45   But that's never been my case.

00:55:48   And so when I used to be really into sleep tracking,

00:55:51   I used AutoSleep, the Apple Watch app,

00:55:55   excellent Apple Watch app that gave me just the information I needed.

00:55:59   I set my alarm in the clock app and then I wore my Apple Watch to bed

00:56:03   and when I woke up in the morning, it understood that I had waken up

00:56:07   and it gave me the report and that's all I needed.

00:56:09   Do you have to tell the app you're going to sleep?

00:56:11   Nope. Nope, you don't.

00:56:13   That's probably the auto, in auto sleep, right? There it is.

00:56:16   Yeah, it's not called auto because of cars, it's called auto because it's automatic.

00:56:21   Sleep auto.

00:56:22   Yeah, so that's my story.

00:56:25   So with apples, do you have to say like, "Hey, watch, I'm going to bed now"?

00:56:29   Yeah, again, I haven't tried it in the past year or so,

00:56:34   but that's the way it was supposed to work years ago.

00:56:37   Like, you got these bedtime reminders and you were supposed to...

00:56:41   Yeah, I'm looking at the K-BASE article now.

00:56:43   And you were like, "Yeah, I'm going to sleep now."

00:56:44   I don't want to do that.

00:56:45   So many, like, most of my going to sleep, like, the way that it works for me now

00:56:51   is I fall asleep watching a YouTube video,

00:56:54   like, or playing a video game.

00:56:55   And when I'm realizing that I'm drifting off,

00:56:58   I either put the switch to bed real quick

00:57:00   and I set it aside on the nightstand,

00:57:02   or I search for the TV remote, and I turn off the TV,

00:57:07   and I turn on my side, and I go to sleep.

00:57:09   Like, I recognize, okay, I'm drifting off.

00:57:11   I better turn off the thing and go to sleep.

00:57:13   That's how I do it.

00:57:14   I set the alarm before,

00:57:17   and I don't want to press any buttons.

00:57:19   I don't want to have any interactions.

00:57:20   I don't want to say, "Hey computer, I'm going to sleep."

00:57:23   Because when I'm going to sleep, it's too hard for me to have any complex interactions

00:57:27   with the display.

00:57:28   Steven, do you ever do any of this?

00:57:30   Wow, I didn't realize I had all these things.

00:57:33   I don't use Apple's thing for the same reasons y'all talked about.

00:57:37   It's too rigid for what I want.

00:57:40   I do have Sleep++ from our friend_ installed in my phone and watch, but I don't sleep track

00:57:49   at night, mainly because I don't like wearing my watch to bed. And that's a bummer. I mean,

00:57:56   it captures naps because I'm not, you know, I could fall asleep like in an afternoon.

00:58:00   So I can tell you on Saturday, July 2nd, I had a two hour nap from 1 to 3pm. It's pretty

00:58:08   good. It's something that I've done. I did years ago and someone in the discord, forgive

00:58:14   me, I can't find it now. But someone in the discourse like I don't know what to do with

00:58:17   the data except I know that I need to sleep more and that's kind of how I feel

00:58:22   about it. This is why I've never done it so this is why I want because I know I

00:58:26   remembered Federico done it for longer and so like I wanted to hear what

00:58:29   Federico just said really about like I did it for a period of time learn some

00:58:33   stuff and stuff yes because I've always felt this way of like what am I supposed

00:58:37   to do with this now the reason I'm asking today Stephen carry on with

00:58:42   stories right now okay I'll get back to that sorry no I mean that's pretty much

00:58:46   I'll have to say like I I get pretty decent amount of sleep now

00:58:51   I don't sleep particularly well and like I kind of know that and I've tried some things to help it over the years

00:58:57   But I don't know like I don't have a goal in mind for this data to work to like it's different

00:59:03   You know wearing my Apple watch every day and like trying to close my rings like I have goals in terms of that

00:59:08   but the sleep thing never really like jumped out at me is something that I wanted to

00:59:13   dive into but I want to hear what what why you're thinking about it, so I

00:59:17   Have made the decision has been suggested to me that I should stop

00:59:23   Looking at my iPhone in bed. Hmm, right just like put the phone like when I'm in bed no more iPhone

00:59:31   It's a good is a good idea, right?

00:59:34   I just would sit I would go to bed and then I'll be on my iPhone

00:59:37   I could be doing whatever I'm doing kind of like Federico's doing watching videos

00:59:42   usually, but I could be doing anything on Instagram, like whatever.

00:59:45   And so like I'm stopping that.

00:59:48   And what I'm doing instead is listening to audio books.

00:59:51   So the book that I mentioned earlier,

00:59:53   the After Steven, I'm just listening to the audio book.

00:59:56   And I've been putting that on at night,

00:59:57   put on a little sleep timer,

00:59:59   and I'm usually asleep before the sleep timer's done.

01:00:01   And then the next day I have to try and find where I was in the book.

01:00:03   But like whatever, it's like, it's doing the job.

01:00:06   So like a couple of things happen.

01:00:08   One was I set up a sleep focus mode.

01:00:11   so I could have a specific home screen that got rid of the apps that I shouldn't be checking

01:00:15   when I'm in bed and put the audiobook app, like the audible app on my home screen, right?

01:00:20   So it's just right there for me.

01:00:22   And there's also a sleep widget, which I think only exists in the sleep focus mode, which

01:00:26   I'm very intrigued how that's the case.

01:00:29   Hmm.

01:00:30   Right?

01:00:31   Like, am I wrong here?

01:00:32   Like I couldn't seem to find this like sleep widget, but there is a sleep widget.

01:00:37   I don't see it.

01:00:38   Right.

01:00:39   But on...

01:00:40   it is in iowa 16 but it's not the same one i don't understand is there's like there's like a widget

01:00:46   that appears on the sleep that i can't seem to replicate anyway anyway maybe i'm wrong i don't

01:00:52   know whatever it's not important for the story and so in doing that like i just was like oh i'll

01:00:57   get to set it up like with the times but no alarm so like during that time my iphone's also doing the

01:01:03   thing where it like the screen goes dark and like which i actually kind of like because it's like

01:01:09   reminding me like, "Stop looking now."

01:01:12   So, and that's, I can kind of set that

01:01:14   within a regular time parameter,

01:01:15   even though I'm not going to sleep

01:01:16   at the same time every day.

01:01:18   And so one of the things that's happened to me

01:01:20   is I'm going to bed and then I would usually be up

01:01:23   for like maybe an hour, maybe more,

01:01:26   like just in bed, just like doing whatever.

01:01:28   But listening to the book, I'm falling asleep.

01:01:31   And that means I'm falling asleep sooner

01:01:33   than I would have fallen asleep before.

01:01:35   So like anywhere between 30 to 90 minutes earlier

01:01:40   than I would have otherwise.

01:01:41   So I'm getting more sleep

01:01:43   and I actually feel better in the morning.

01:01:45   And so it's maybe for the first time in my life

01:01:49   where I'm like, okay, so something's happened here.

01:01:53   Maybe some information about this would be good.

01:01:56   Now I don't know how useful it is

01:01:58   without not having the information before,

01:02:00   like it would be more helpful, right,

01:02:02   if I was tracking before I was doing this.

01:02:04   And then after I started doing this,

01:02:06   so I'd have some comparisons to make,

01:02:08   but it just made me wonder if like the two of you

01:02:10   had ever done it.

01:02:10   Cause I'm not decided on it because ultimately

01:02:13   I actually don't think I want to wear my Apple watch

01:02:15   in bed like that's the problem.

01:02:18   It's too big of a watch.

01:02:19   And I wouldn't want to wear the leather watch band

01:02:22   that I wear.

01:02:23   So then I have to be changing the watch band every day.

01:02:25   It's like a whole thing.

01:02:26   - Day watch, night watch.

01:02:28   - I don't want to do that.

01:02:30   That's for sure.

01:02:31   - There's so there is a setting.

01:02:33   it's in health under sleep.

01:02:36   There is called track time in bed with iPhone.

01:02:39   And it says health can give you a better understanding

01:02:43   of your sleep patterns by using your sleep schedule.

01:02:45   So you have to have that set up and analyzing

01:02:47   when you pick up and use your iPhone during the night.

01:02:50   So I guess that's like kind of a thing.

01:02:52   - I mean, but all that's gonna do is just tell me hours,

01:02:57   right? Like at least with the watch,

01:02:59   I get some kind of idea of like movement.

01:03:01   and if I'm like, you know what I mean?

01:03:04   - Yeah.

01:03:05   - Like if I'm disturbed at night and stuff like that.

01:03:07   - Yeah.

01:03:08   - 'Cause like I have it, it's telling me

01:03:10   that I had seven hours and 21 minutes of in bedtime.

01:03:14   - Right, but that doesn't mean you're asleep

01:03:16   where the watch would know that a little bit better.

01:03:18   - Exactly, and so, yeah, I'm not really sure.

01:03:22   I don't really, I just haven't decided.

01:03:26   I just wanted to see what you two thought about it.

01:03:28   But this is the first time I've ever felt like,

01:03:31   Like I maybe wanted to do something like this.

01:03:33   - Have you considered the Bed-It product that Apple makes?

01:03:38   Or they bought and own and still sell for some reason?

01:03:41   - I mean, I'm aware that these things exist, yeah.

01:03:45   - I just wonder if that would be like,

01:03:47   'cause you had it under your seat,

01:03:48   just on your side of the bed,

01:03:51   and maybe it would be enough information to help?

01:03:56   I don't know.

01:03:58   - Can you still get it?

01:04:00   - Let's see.

01:04:00   I mean, there's still a website and you can still get the app, but...

01:04:04   Yeah, can you buy the thing?

01:04:05   There is nothing that suggests you can buy it anywhere.

01:04:08   I mean, look on the Apple Store.

01:04:10   It's spelled "Bet-It" like Reddit with a "B", which is fine.

01:04:12   Mm-hmm.

01:04:13   Wow, I'm not sure you can still buy it.

01:04:16   There you go.

01:04:17   It's the end of that then, I suppose.

01:04:18   Yeah, I don't know.

01:04:19   I'm just, I'm just trying, I'm in like the information gathering phase with this one.

01:04:26   I have noticed a little difference and I'm enjoying listening to audiobooks at night.

01:04:32   I'm searching eBay for "Bet It". Maybe you're gonna find a nice used one.

01:04:36   Definitely don't want that.

01:04:38   Oh no, you can buy it on Apple's, like on the Apple Store.

01:04:42   Oh, and you can't hear. I searched for it and it doesn't come up.

01:04:45   It's £150, USB-A.

01:04:48   I think you should try it and report back.

01:04:50   I don't know if I want this. Really? I don't know if I want it.

01:04:54   Where does the data even go?

01:04:55   - Into the Betit app, and then I would imagine into health.

01:05:00   - Does anyone know the answers to these questions?

01:05:02   - I just answered it, it's in the app.

01:05:04   - No, do you know it works in health?

01:05:08   - Let's see, Betit, Apple.

01:05:11   - Real time follow up from Jason Snow in the Slack chat.

01:05:15   I have a Betit.

01:05:17   - Cool.

01:05:18   - It does pair with the iPhone with Bluetooth

01:05:21   and goes to health.

01:05:22   - There we go.

01:05:23   Jason, do you like it though?

01:05:25   Like, all you've just told me is you have it.

01:05:28   - Could you Big Apple Buddy it to Myke?

01:05:30   - No, I can buy it.

01:05:32   Like it is available for me to buy.

01:05:34   I could get it tomorrow if I wanted to.

01:05:37   Jason did not stick with it.

01:05:38   - Say go.

01:05:39   - I'm not gonna spend 150 pounds on it.

01:05:41   - Well, maybe try the watch thing for like a week to see.

01:05:44   - Yeah, that's my advice.

01:05:45   I think like, I guess my question would be,

01:05:49   what are you looking for?

01:05:51   - I don't know.

01:05:52   - Mm-hmm. Like, because when I was doing it, I had a clear question.

01:05:58   And my question was, how much sleep do I need? - Yeah.

01:06:02   - But your question might be different. So I think you should start from the question.

01:06:06   - Well, the question is, is this useful? That's the question. Like, I've always asked this about sleep tracking.

01:06:13   It's like, I don't know if this is a useful thing. And I actually think now I have potentially missed the useful window for me.

01:06:20   Do you feel like you have a problem with your sleep right now?

01:06:23   Like when you wake up are you feeling tired like right there in the morning?

01:06:27   No, as I said I feel better now in the past week than I did before because I'm getting a little bit more sleep.

01:06:32   But like my problem is with sleep is I always feel like I could have more and I've been like this since I was a teenager.

01:06:41   I could sleep for 12 hours and I still feel like I would need more sleep.

01:06:44   like I've always kind of been that way but I am waking up at least this past week or

01:06:49   so feeling a little bit better I think it's because I'm getting to a little bit more sleep

01:06:53   I think it would have been more useful for me if I would have been sleep tracking prior

01:06:57   to starting this new thing that I'm doing to see if that makes a difference yeah I don't

01:07:02   know I just wanted to get this information I don't know if I'm gonna do anything about

01:07:05   this I might try it just to see if step one I don't mind sleeping with the Apple watch

01:07:11   on I actually think probably not right now plus it's still really warm at home

01:07:16   and so I don't know if I want to sleep with the Apple watch on. Our home has not

01:07:22   cooled down since the heat wave it's just like retaining all the heat it's

01:07:25   still like 29 degrees Celsius at home and there seems to be nothing that we

01:07:29   can do to stop it doing that. Is it hotter in the kitchen? Isn't it always?

01:07:34   Could be a could be a heat sink issue. Alright wrap up the show. Yeah that's a

01:07:39   a new low even for you.

01:07:41   - I don't wanna do this anymore.

01:07:42   (laughing)

01:07:43   I'm done.

01:07:44   (laughing)

01:07:45   - If you wanna find-- - You gotta be stopped.

01:07:47   - If you wanna find links to stuff we spoke about,

01:07:50   head on over to the website,

01:07:51   that's relay.fm/connected/408.

01:07:55   While you're there, you can sign up,

01:07:57   become a member of Connected Pro.

01:07:59   Connected Pro members get a bunch of cool stuff,

01:08:01   including an ad-free longer version of the show

01:08:04   each and every week.

01:08:06   You can find us all online.

01:08:08   You can find Federico on Twitter as Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I, and he's the editor-in-chief

01:08:14   of MacStories.net.

01:08:16   You can follow Myke online as iMyke, I-M-Y-K-E, and Myke hosts a bunch of other shows here

01:08:22   on Relay FM.

01:08:24   You can find me on Twitter as iSmh and my writing over at 512pixels.net.

01:08:29   I'd like to thank our sponsors, TextExpander, Indeed, and Capital One.

01:08:35   Until next week, guys, say goodbye.

01:08:36   Arrivederci.

01:08:37   Ciao.

01:08:38   Bye y'all.

01:08:38   Bye y'all.