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398: Moon is not a Number

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0:00:00[Music]

0:00:08What you mugs?

0:00:09Oh my god.

0:00:10Welcome to Connected, episode 398 isn't it?

0:00:14This episode is brought to you by Squarespace and Capit1 and OVA.

0:00:18My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by another couple of mugs.

0:00:23One of them is Federico Vittucci, isn't it? Alright Federico?

0:00:26Thank you Myke. Appreciate the introduction.

0:00:29Thank you. Thank you, Michael.

0:00:33What's the whispering for?

0:00:35This is how I'm doing the intro this week.

0:00:38Oh, no, we don't all do special intros every time.

0:00:41I decide when I do the special intro.

0:00:44Oh, that's, I guess you do. Can you introduce Steven then?

0:00:47It is my pleasure to introduce Mr. Steven Hackett.

0:00:52Hello, Steven!

0:00:55You've created so much work for me now to make that listenable.

0:00:58Yeah, there's also massive volume differences between the two of us to begin.

0:01:02Yeah.

0:01:03Which is... that's fun.

0:01:04Myke, that was incredible.

0:01:06I've been thinking about that for a week.

0:01:09My real worry there was I was gonna swear.

0:01:13That was my concern.

0:01:15Because if I slip back into my cockney roots, which by the way, I never sounded exactly

0:01:20like that.

0:01:21That was way more aggressive than I would normally sound.

0:01:23Yeah, you sounded angry.

0:01:24Yeah, well, I mean, cockneys are angry.

0:01:26just like part of their being, you know. Another, another, fine, just, just swear and we'll

0:01:32bleep it out. It's fine. Well, it was like, you know, so much work for me. It's not even,

0:01:37that's why I didn't do it. Plus it would have just been, I mean, it's antagonistic enough,

0:01:40right? I had to call them mugs, but like, you know, like I wanted to call them something

0:01:44else kind of mugs, right? Which is what I would normally do. And that just felt like,

0:01:48you know, you've already pressed play and you've got someone that's on you. You don't

0:01:51need them to curse you too. You know, imagine pressing play, you hear someone shouting,

0:01:56bleeped out from the first three seconds.

0:01:59(laughing)

0:02:02- So there you go.

0:02:04- They're saying release the mic cut in Discord already.

0:02:08- See, they know it.

0:02:09Release the mic cut, yeah, the mic cut.

0:02:11- The mic cut.

0:02:13We're gonna start with some follow up.

0:02:16iOS 15.5, watchOS 8.6 and MacOS 12.4.

0:02:21My word, get your version numbers together, Apple.

0:02:24They're all out.

0:02:25Federica is--

0:02:26It's point four point five and point six.

0:02:29The only order.

0:02:29- Yeah, but it's 12 and eight and 15.

0:02:31- Yeah, it's fine, don't worry about it.

0:02:32- Anything, anything people should know about?

0:02:35- Not really.

0:02:36I mean, really, the thing worth noting is that the shortcuts,

0:02:41you know, bug fixes continue,

0:02:45both on iOS and iPadOS and macOS.

0:02:48Apple has now separate pages for release notes on the Mac

0:02:54and iPhone and iPad. Actually, they're doing a really good job here. I mean, we really

0:02:58criticized shortcuts in September, rightfully so, because it was so buggy and crashy. They've

0:03:04been putting in the work. On each release there's a ton of bug fixes, a ton of stability improvements,

0:03:09still a lot of work to be done, still a lot of SwiftUI weirdness, especially on macOS,

0:03:16but they're continuing to work on this and they're publishing detailed release notes. I don't recall

0:03:23another instance of a system app, maybe Safari? Maybe just Safari has the standalone release notes page.

0:03:31But it's nice to see this work on shortcuts continue and nothing else really. I mean, there's some

0:03:37wallet fixes, I think. Is 0.5 the release where if you are in a participating state you get the

0:03:45driver's license stuff and the wallet keys? The driver's license, I mean, never give a phone

0:03:52to a cop, but still it's pretty cool that you can have, I guess, your ID in there.

0:03:57Yeah, not much else, but I want to see what's coming in 0.6, which we just talked about in the

0:04:06pre-show for Connected Pro listeners. We have a little bet going during the show that we'll

0:04:13resolve at the end of this episode, but yeah, 0.5 just came out, but there's already a beta of 0.6,

0:04:20So we'll see what's in it. But WWDC is coming fast.

0:04:24So I'm also curious to see if iOS 15.6 and the related updates, because there's also

0:04:30watchOS 8.7 and MacOS 12.5. Once again, it's 5, 6 and 7.

0:04:38And tvOS 15.6.

0:04:40Right, I'm sorry, also tvOS. I want to see if this come out in time for WWDC.

0:04:46I wouldn't be surprised if this had something in it eventually that they announced at WWDC.

0:04:54You know? Good theory. So like some new little thing and it's gonna be in... Save it for the

0:05:00rickies. I will say as well 15.5 also contains the support for the external linking thing.

0:05:10for reader apps but I have yet to see any examples of anyone using it but it

0:05:17has the support for that. I think it also has the use your phone as a payment

0:05:22terminal in the US. Oh really? Mm-hmm I think so I think 15.5 brought that.

0:05:27There's nothing else in follow-up I don't think. Liar. Steven broke a phone.

0:05:31He broke another iPhone. Yes. Another one. So badly too. Have you got an image for the show notes?

0:05:39Yeah, I'll put...

0:05:43This is just so bad.

0:05:47So he smashed the back, but I'm pretty sure you can see into the phone in one part of

0:05:52it.

0:05:53It doesn't...

0:05:54It got really hot while charging.

0:05:55Well, yeah, because you've absolutely obliterated it.

0:05:59What kind of charging?

0:06:00Wireless charging?

0:06:01Yeah.

0:06:02Why would you do that?

0:06:03So it's currently plugged into my desk to a lightning cable.

0:06:06Why would you do that?

0:06:07That seems dangerous.

0:06:09It's like, oh, I spilled some water in the lightning port and then plugged it in and

0:06:13my house burnt down. I don't understand.

0:06:18I dropped it from standing height onto concrete without a case.

0:06:21Why are you always around rocks, stones, concrete? Like, why are you so much around hard surfaces?

0:06:33Lisa asked if I have a bucket of sand to put it in.

0:06:35That's very good, Lisa.

0:06:37- It's a hell of a bet.

0:06:40- Look at this, there's like a hole in it.

0:06:42- I know, right?

0:06:43- Yeah, it's bad, it's bad.

0:06:45The case is kind of holding it together.

0:06:47Well, I mean, so my suit is in my backyard,

0:06:52there's a stone walkway to get to it,

0:06:54there's a concrete patio.

0:06:55- And you just can't be bothered to carry your phone,

0:06:57so you just throw it and hope it lands on the grass.

0:06:59- Get a foam patio or something.

0:07:02- Yeah.

0:07:03- Yeah, I don't know how to do something.

0:07:05You should have a case on your phone.

0:07:07Do you not be trusted?

0:07:08- I did for a while and then I got tired of it

0:07:11so I took it off.

0:07:12- Now look what's happened.

0:07:13- You gotta get a rugged case.

0:07:16- I don't know if a case would have saved this one.

0:07:18It probably would have saved it.

0:07:19- 100% would have saved it.

0:07:20Because the smashing impact was clearly right

0:07:23on the back there.

0:07:24- Yeah.

0:07:25- Right?

0:07:25And so that would have never made contact with the phone.

0:07:28- The worst.

0:07:29- Like it's hit like a little stone or something, right?

0:07:31- Yeah, it must have hit like a little raised part.

0:07:33The worst part is it's cracked up into like the camera plateau right up against one of

0:07:37the cameras.

0:07:38And the LIDAR sensor is safe though, so that's good news.

0:07:40Well, no, you can't really see it in that photo, but there was a crack that basically

0:07:44runs around the outside edge of the LIDAR sensor.

0:07:47Right.

0:07:48I have a Genius Bar appointment next week, as soon as I could get out there.

0:07:52They're just going to tell you it's scratched, so...

0:07:54Yeah, it's just scratched.

0:07:56It looks like a scratch to me.

0:07:58Some people asked if I was going to repair it myself.

0:08:00You can't.

0:08:01is not part of the self-service repair.

0:08:04Historically, I don't know if it's true

0:08:06like currently with the 13s,

0:08:08but ever since like the eight and the 10,

0:08:10if you break the back, it's a whole phone replacement

0:08:13because basically everything's built in to the back.

0:08:16- Because it got cheaper to do.

0:08:18- Did it?

0:08:19- Yeah, the out of warranty repair got cheaper.

0:08:21- I would love not to have to replace the phone completely.

0:08:24I mean, it's under AppleCare Plus.

0:08:25I mean, I'll have to pay the service fee,

0:08:27but just going to a new phone is such a pain.

0:08:31So hopefully they can just fix this one.

0:08:33- So that's, are you on, you're on Apple Care?

0:08:36- Yes, Apple Care Plus, the damaged one.

0:08:39So yeah, I go Tuesday morning to get it fixed.

0:08:42- Do you think they have like,

0:08:44do you think they have records?

0:08:45- Like this guy is really bad,

0:08:48charge him more for Apple Care.

0:08:50- Like just they keep a record

0:08:51and then like he's done it again?

0:08:53- I mean, you can look.

0:08:54- Do you think they just see you walking

0:08:56and they're like, oh, he's back.

0:08:58- He's back.

0:08:59- The guy's back.

0:09:00that guy, phone guy's back.

0:09:03I mean, you can look at someone's case history

0:09:06pretty easily based on their Apple ID.

0:09:07So yeah, if someone wanted to,

0:09:09they could go back and see a handful,

0:09:12really just a couple of similar incidents

0:09:14over the last 15 years.

0:09:16- I would expect actually,

0:09:18your Apple store thinks one of two things

0:09:20when you walk through the door, right?

0:09:22It's either one, what's he broken now,

0:09:24or two, what is he gonna buy and return in a week?

0:09:27- Yeah.

0:09:29- You know? - Yeah.

0:09:30Do you think, like, are you trying to get loyalty points or something, Stephen, for

0:09:36breaking devices? No. Because that's not how it works.

0:09:43You do it enough times, you get like a free iPhone case. Give him a little stamp on a

0:09:46card and... So we're just gonna give you this case.

0:09:49Eventually, it's like, you're costing us too much.

0:09:52Sir, we collectively had an idea. We want you to keep this case.

0:09:56We've been about our best minds on this.

0:09:58-Yeah, our gift to you. -Every employee chipped in,

0:10:01and we had this idea.

0:10:03-Please, please, please. -Clearly, this is an issue for you, so...

0:10:06We started a GoFundMe, and we bought you this case.

0:10:10[laughter]

0:10:12Oh, boy. It's annual special time.

0:10:15If you're new around here, once a year, a selection of Relay FM shows

0:10:19create a bonus episode for Relay FM members.

0:10:23Relay FM members that support any show.

0:10:25So whether you support connected of connected pro, whether you support

0:10:29reconcilable differences or wherever you support just any show that you want, even

0:10:32ones that don't give bonus content of their own, every relay FM member gets

0:10:37access to a feed called the crossover feed that has a bunch of content in it

0:10:41all the time, but once a year, a selection of annual specials, our special comes

0:10:46out on Friday, May 20th, uh, it's going to be in that crossover feed with the

0:10:51annual specials and it is the first round in a new thing for connected which

0:10:56yet does not yet have a name but it is a quiz where I will be hosting a long

0:11:03running quiz with my two co-hosts here it's Steven versus Federico this quiz

0:11:08can occur as both member specials it will occur in connected pro content it

0:11:15It will occur during the show, either as planned or unplanned segments.

0:11:22So anytime this quiz will occur, the points will be accrued throughout all the quizzes.

0:11:29So we've already recorded this.

0:11:30We recorded this today.

0:11:32It was, I would say, a great success.

0:11:34I thought it went very well.

0:11:36Very happy with it.

0:11:37The first round of the quiz is a trivia quiz about WWDC, of which there are 20 questions.

0:11:44these two boys racked up a selection of points.

0:11:47These points will now be carried through to future quizzes

0:11:52that will occur in the Connected universe.

0:11:56So you can go to getconnectedpro.co and you can sign up.

0:11:59If you sign up there,

0:12:00you will be supporting this show directly

0:12:03and you will get longer ad-free versions of Connected,

0:12:06which in the future may include some quiz questions, right?

0:12:10So you wanna make sure you get all of them, right?

0:12:12Getconnectedpro.co.

0:12:13But no matter what show you support, you will get access to the quiz that we have recorded

0:12:18for you that will come out on Friday, May 20th.

0:12:20And I really hope that you'll enjoy it.

0:12:22It was a lot of fun.

0:12:23I'm so pleased about this idea.

0:12:26And it's a long running quiz.

0:12:28So on Friday, you get the first taste of it.

0:12:32But Myke plans to torture us with this quiz over time throughout, you know, many months,

0:12:38years in the future.

0:12:40So you know, keep following I guess.

0:12:44At certain points I hope that you just hear me take a deep breath like and you're worried

0:12:48that I've got a quiz question for you.

0:12:50This is the kind of environment that I'm hoping to create on this show.

0:12:56Cyberbullying.

0:12:57Yeah.

0:12:58It's cyber quizzing.

0:12:59Quiz bullying.

0:13:01All the kids are doing it.

0:13:02Are they?

0:13:04I don't know.

0:13:06I don't know what kids do.

0:13:07They do TikTok.

0:13:08That's what they do.

0:13:09- Oh yeah, I guess that's probably true.

0:13:10- I might make some TikTok quizzes.

0:13:12- Who knows?

0:13:13- Who could tell?

0:13:14- Who could tell?

0:13:15- We have some follow out.

0:13:16Myke, you were on App Stories episode 274

0:13:21as the TVOS expert.

0:13:23- Yep, so on App Stories,

0:13:25Federico and John have been doing their annual wish lists

0:13:28for various operating systems.

0:13:30I think neither of them could be bothered to think of TVOS,

0:13:34so they drafted me in.

0:13:35And I had, what was it, six things, I think?

0:13:39six features that I wanted added to tvOS to everybody's surprise because I have

0:13:44things I would like in tvOS as the tvOS expert. Nobody thinks about tvOS more

0:13:49than me as is proven on episode one hundred and two hundred and seventy four

0:13:56of App Stories. Episode one thousand two hundred and seventy four.

0:14:01He thought of things that like I couldn't even imagine. What was one of them? Like

0:14:06Like there was one about, just give me one of them.

0:14:10Do you remember one of them, Myke?

0:14:12He says all of them were--

0:14:12- Is there something that is particularly

0:14:15in your mind right now?

0:14:16- You said something shocking

0:14:18that like no one had ever thought of before.

0:14:20- Yeah. - Widgets?

0:14:21- Widgets on the, yeah.

0:14:23- Or was it the X-ray feature, the Amazon X-ray thing?

0:14:25- The X-ray, so many of those ideas were incredible.

0:14:29So yeah, go listen to the episode.

0:14:30I mean, he's the TVOS guy.

0:14:33And obviously we are looking forward

0:14:35to the review of TVOS 16 in September.

0:14:40It's gonna happen.

0:14:41A whole new design this year.

0:14:44- I really hope they don't do a lot though, right?

0:14:47Like, you know, can you imagine if they're like,

0:14:49this year we've decided to focus primarily on TVOS.

0:14:53- Oh no.

0:14:53- Can you imagine that?

0:14:54Like that's it.

0:14:55That's just the thing.

0:14:56And then I'm stuck.

0:14:57Like Federico does like a two minute segment on connected

0:14:59and I have to do like a four month long segment.

0:15:01- Imagine that.

0:15:02- That'd be amazing.

0:15:03- That'd be nice.

0:15:04- It'd be horrible.

0:15:05I'm not ready for that.

0:15:06- Federico will be on episode 641 of Mac Power Users.

0:15:11The link is in the show notes.

0:15:13It won't work until Sunday when the episode goes up.

0:15:16David and I are very glad you came

0:15:18to hang out with us this week.

0:15:20I really enjoyed our conversation.

0:15:21- Thank you.

0:15:22- I think connected listeners will enjoy

0:15:24a lot of the themes we talk about here,

0:15:26sort of explored in a new way over there.

0:15:29- Different side of me.

0:15:31- A more powerful way.

0:15:32- Yes.

0:15:32- Probably more serious way,

0:15:34- I'm gonna assume too.

0:15:35- Yeah. - Fewer Japes.

0:15:36- Yeah, fewer Japes.

0:15:38Lots of hashtag productivity content, you know?

0:15:42You know, that kind of stuff.

0:15:43- Kept talking about Obsidian,

0:15:43I kept trying to-- - No, I didn't--

0:15:44- Keep stop. - Keep talking.

0:15:46It was like not even 10 minutes of two hours or something.

0:15:50- I'm surprised actually with David and Federico

0:15:52on the same episode. - Exactly.

0:15:54We try to really, you know,

0:15:56we know that Steven is here and other people are listening,

0:15:59so just, you know, give us 10 minutes

0:16:02is all we're asking for.

0:16:04- Savva in the Discord has said,

0:16:06"Myke's future quizzes will all be about tvOS."

0:16:08(laughing)

0:16:10- Can you imagine?

0:16:11- The future of TV is blank.

0:16:14- The future of TV is Myke.

0:16:16So.

0:16:17- That's true.

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0:17:49- So to celebrate Global Accessibility Awareness Day,

0:17:54Apple once again, I think they did this,

0:17:57I know they did this last year,

0:17:58I think it was the first time,

0:18:00or maybe it was a couple of times.

0:18:02Apple kind of pre-announced

0:18:04some upcoming accessibility features.

0:18:06You know, this could have been something

0:18:07that they would do as part of WWDC,

0:18:09but I actually think is way better to do

0:18:12as part of Global Accessibility Awareness Day,

0:18:14because I mean, it's focused around that day

0:18:18and Apple can kind of make a bigger song and dance of it

0:18:21in the sense of like letting people know

0:18:23that this thing even exists, right?

0:18:24Because a lot of articles will be written

0:18:26that mentions, for example, right?

0:18:28These are the features, they did it because of this.

0:18:30Plus it also allows them to go into way more detail

0:18:33than I think they would be able to fit into a WWDC keynote.

0:18:36There's a long list of things.

0:18:40I wanted to pull a couple out of the smaller ones

0:18:43and then we can maybe talk about, I think,

0:18:44a couple of the bigger ones that were interesting.

0:18:47So some of the things that they had

0:18:49were Apple Watch mirroring on the iPhone.

0:18:52So this is like, it would let you see the screen

0:18:54of your Apple Watch on your iPhone

0:18:57So you can use things like voice control and like switch control and a lot of the various

0:19:03ways that Apple have built tools to allow you to control the iPhone.

0:19:07So you could use them on the Apple watch, which is actually I think a pretty smart way

0:19:11of not needing to build those tools twice in ways that wouldn't necessarily work.

0:19:16So that was cool.

0:19:18They have more controls for watch navigation.

0:19:20So you remember they did like the gripping and the pointing.

0:19:25they've also got like a pinch gesture now too. There's more language support for voiceover

0:19:31in general on the iPhone, so more languages now have included a voiceover. There's something

0:19:36I thought was amazing called Buddy Controller. So you can attach two controllers by Bluetooth

0:19:43to a device and they both control the same thing. So let's imagine, let's say you're

0:19:50playing a platforming game, two people could have a controller connected to that one game

0:19:55controlling that one character. So if somebody needed help, they needed somebody to help

0:19:59them, maybe they have limited mobility or they just need more assistance, right? Like

0:20:03they're struggling with the game, right? You could have two people controlled the same

0:20:07thing. I thought that was super cool. My personal favorite was live captions because I remember

0:20:14Google adding this to Android a couple of years ago and I was very jealous of it. So

0:20:19So this is, it's in voice, like in video calling, I think it may be video calling, for media

0:20:26apps and stuff like that, it will, you don't need to have audio on, you can have the audio

0:20:32down or you can have the audio up, and it's basically using the on-device language processing

0:20:38to show captions for what's on the screen.

0:20:40I think this is just fantastic.

0:20:42Like it's something that obviously is super useful for people that need it, but there's

0:20:47also useful people that want it like me which is you know good accessibility

0:20:51features can be used by everyone you know yeah and this is one of them and so

0:20:57yeah I would be able to have my volume down and watch somebody's Instagram

0:21:02stories or whatever right which I just think is like a really clever feature

0:21:06Federica I know you wanted to talk about door detection yeah that seems really

0:21:10impressive it's the fact that it's powered by the

0:21:16The LIDAR sensor makes sense, so you will get it on the iPhone 12 and later, I want

0:21:21to say, and the most recent iPads as well.

0:21:26It seems really incredible, and the way that it works, you know, that it can not only detect

0:21:31the distance of a door, but whether it's unlocked or not, if it can be opened by pushing or

0:21:36by using a knob, or if there's a handle or something, and it also tells you using voice

0:21:42over what's the sign on the door, what does it say.

0:21:45it seems really well done. And I mean, they're talking about this in the context of iPhone

0:21:50and iPad now, but if they ever do a wearable AR device, I mean, the potential there for

0:21:56this kind of stuff is incredible, right? You're wearing glasses and the glasses tell you,

0:22:01"Hey, you're looking at a door and it needs to be unlocked by pushing and it's five feet

0:22:05away and it says, you know, this on the door." Like, that seems incredible.

0:22:11- That's a pretty intense machine learning task too, right?

0:22:14- Yeah.

0:22:15- Like to work out if a door can be pushed or pulled.

0:22:17- Yeah, they say it can tell if it's open or closed

0:22:22and if it can be opened by pushing, turning a knob,

0:22:25or pulling a handle.

0:22:26- Like I don't even know that most of the time.

0:22:29- Yeah, right?

0:22:30Who's pulled on a door that says push

0:22:33and then you feel silly.

0:22:34But yeah, I mean, and this is,

0:22:36that's the attention to detail

0:22:37that I think is so fascinating in this.

0:22:40If you're going to do something like door detection,

0:22:42of course you need all of those details.

0:22:44And with LIDAR and these other tools,

0:22:47they really can get a good image,

0:22:50a good analysis of what's around the phone or the iPad,

0:22:57'cause the iPad Pros have LIDAR on them now.

0:22:59Seems very impressive to me.

0:23:02- And also I wanted to call out,

0:23:05I mean, obviously as far as AR goes, live captions,

0:23:10You know, that kind of stuff will also be applicable in the future to an AR device.

0:23:15I don't know if you saw in Google I/O they did a demo of the translation thing?

0:23:20They did a demo of the translation thing.

0:23:22Obviously like doing real-time translation much more difficult than showing captions

0:23:26for a video, right?

0:23:29Because I imagine that in a video the system does not necessarily need to analyze the captions

0:23:36in real time.

0:23:37Like, you're seeing the captions in real time, but the system may be using a buffer to actually

0:23:42pre-analyze the whole video and load the captions beforehand, right?

0:23:46Because you're watching the video, but the system can analyze the entire video before

0:23:51you even see it in, like, I don't know, seconds.

0:23:55Real-time translation means the system is listening alongside you to whatever someone

0:24:01else is saying.

0:24:02So that's much more challenging, because there's no buffer in real life, obviously, when someone

0:24:07is speaking. But live captions and translations, you know, obviously all of these features

0:24:13make sense to prepare for a future in which maybe something that you're wearing gives

0:24:18you this kind of information in real time. I also wanted to call out, you know, some

0:24:23minor detail that caught my attention. The fact that Apple specifically called out these

0:24:30visual customizations coming in the Books app. Besides the fact that this new...

0:24:37there's going to be multiple themes in Books for iOS 16. They never say iOS 16

0:24:44by name, but you know, obviously they're talking about this. And they're bringing

0:24:47back a paper theme. So there's going to be a paper background in Books again,

0:24:53which I thought was funny. But this visual customization with multiple themes, it

0:24:59It makes me wonder if visual customization inside apps, maybe even outside of apps, given what Google announced at I/O,

0:25:09will finally be a theme in 2016, given the lack of visual customization stuff in iOS 15 last year.

0:25:19Also, that UI in books for customizing the UI, that card that pops up from the bottom

0:25:27of the screen, I wouldn't be surprised, and a bunch of developers have confirmed, like,

0:25:32had the same theory I've seen on Twitter, if that's one of the new SwiftUI changes,

0:25:39like a new SwiftUI API in iOS 16, being able to do those bottom-based cards like you may

0:25:48have seen in Apple Maps, like you may have seen to an extent in Safari, yes. And a lot

0:25:57of developers have been asking for a SwiftUI version of that, which doesn't exist at the

0:26:01moment, and we may be looking right at it in that screenshot.

0:26:06You would assume so. Right? Like, if it's there. I mean, I don't know if Books is made

0:26:13in SwiftUI, but I guess ultimately everything will be at some point.

0:26:17But also, that visual customization stuff, please make it happen for more apps, not just

0:26:22books. Give me that in notes. Give me multiple themes. That should be a system-wide thing

0:26:29this year.

0:26:30There was another story. There's a lot of little bits and bobs coming out right now,

0:26:35a lot of press releases. We mentioned 15.6 is out and there's some enterprise press release

0:26:41today.

0:26:42Oh, and by the way, there's no sign of Apple Music Classical in 15.6.

0:26:47That was the bet.

0:26:48Yeah, I was looking, I honestly don't see anything, so I guess it's just more bug fixes.

0:26:55For now.

0:26:56There was an App Store subscription change that was announced on the developer center.

0:27:03Basically now, this will allow a company like an app that offers a subscription to increase

0:27:10the price of that subscription and have it automatically renew without explicit user

0:27:16permission. So you as a user will be notified that the price is increasing. You get like

0:27:21a little sheet that pops up and it tells you how much and when and you just press OK or

0:27:27you can tap an obscured text link I'll say to allow you to go and manage the subscription.

0:27:35it will automatically change the price unless you cancel.

0:27:40So this was not possible before.

0:27:42So if you wanted to increase the price of your subscription,

0:27:46you had to create a new subscription tier

0:27:49and ask people to change to it, right?

0:27:51Like it wasn't, there wasn't like a flow.

0:27:54This is the Disney+ rule.

0:27:56I think Disney were the first company to be using this.

0:28:01Disney have been using this.

0:28:03Like there are examples of people who have seen

0:28:07this thing happen to them.

0:28:09Like a thing has popped up and said,

0:28:11oh, your price is gonna increase from 599 a month

0:28:14to 899 a month or whatever it was from this date.

0:28:18This was, nobody else was, seemed to have had this.

0:28:22Disney had this.

0:28:23And you can see why, right?

0:28:25Like Disney, you know, Apple wants Disney

0:28:28to have the in-app purchase, right?

0:28:30They don't want them to Netflix them.

0:28:32They want them to have an in-app purchase option,

0:28:34which Disney does for Disney Plus.

0:28:36You can buy it through Apple's platform.

0:28:38Disney want to put up their prices.

0:28:41They don't want to then ask everyone, please do this.

0:28:45So I assume they've gone to Apple and have said,

0:28:48can you help us with this?

0:28:49This is my assumption of this part, right?

0:28:51This is conjecture, but I think it makes sense.

0:28:54But I'm sure that Apple were getting this

0:28:56from a lot of their partners, right?

0:28:58Larger companies who want to put their prices up.

0:29:00There are rules about how much you can increase.

0:29:03So you can't go wild with it.

0:29:05I'll give you some examples here.

0:29:06So if a developer increases a weekly

0:29:09or monthly subscription price by more than 50%,

0:29:12and that difference is over $5, it doesn't qualify.

0:29:16This is for the monthly one, right?

0:29:18- So then you're in the old system

0:29:19where people have to sign back up.

0:29:21- Yeah, or you just can't do it, right?

0:29:23So you have to do it other ways, right?

0:29:25But you can't use this system.

0:29:27And for an annual subscription,

0:29:28developers can still raise the price

0:29:30by 50% but can't raise it by more than $50 without requiring an opt-in.

0:29:35So you can go anywhere up to 50% but you have cap limits that you can do that difference

0:29:42over.

0:29:43So if you add a $10 subscription, like a month, you can't raise it to $20 or whatever.

0:29:49You can only go up to $15 maximum.

0:29:51If you had a $20 subscription, you can't actually raise it by $10, you can only raise it by

0:29:56$5.

0:29:57even though 50% would be 10,

0:29:59the difference cannot be more than $5.

0:30:02Does that make sense?

0:30:03It's a little complicated, that part,

0:30:04but basically it's never more than 50%

0:30:07and it's never more than a set amount of money that goes up.

0:30:11So this feels like something that Apple are doing

0:30:16for the companies more than for the users,

0:30:20but this is business.

0:30:22This is how is she gonna do it, right?

0:30:24If you're Disney, what are you gonna do?

0:30:26Apple want you to go through their system,

0:30:28well then Apple have to help you out.

0:30:31- Yeah, it's just a cost of doing business this way, right?

0:30:34And I get that, I mean,

0:30:39I get why companies want that flexibility

0:30:42and it's good for Apple, like you said,

0:30:44to keep as many people as possible in the in-app system.

0:30:47You know, they don't want you,

0:30:49they don't want Disney+ walking away

0:30:50and then them not getting their cut, so.

0:30:53- Oh yeah, that's a good point.

0:30:54This benefits Apple too, right?

0:30:55because if Disney successfully, this is a raise,

0:30:58Apple just got a raise because Disney put their prices up.

0:31:00- Right, and they're not doing like,

0:31:02like say that Disney+ had a cost increase

0:31:05and Apple didn't have a system like this,

0:31:07that may be opportunity for Disney to say,

0:31:08"You know what, why are we doing this at all?

0:31:10"Why don't we just do the Netflix?"

0:31:11And you just have to sign up online.

0:31:13And so this is a way to incentivize those big companies

0:31:16to stay within the in-app system,

0:31:19which means Apple gets to take their cut.

0:31:21- And especially at a time

0:31:23when they're now offering the exemption stuff, right?

0:31:25For the reader apps.

0:31:26Well, you know, in Apple's defense, they do tell you.

0:31:31- They do, and the prompt is very clear.

0:31:33Like it says, plan, new price, old price, the starting date.

0:31:37So I feel like it's communicated as clearly as it could be.

0:31:41So that works for me.

0:31:43Do we expect anything else from Apple pre-WVDC?

0:31:46I mean, we're coming up now, what, just a couple of weeks?

0:31:49- I mean, they've done something like every day this week.

0:31:51I expect there will still be more stuff, little bits and bobs.

0:31:54There might be some bad news to come, right?

0:31:58Like they do that, like if they have like a big bad news thing.

0:32:01What could be bad news right now?

0:32:03Not necessarily bad news, but like stuff where there's lots of questions.

0:32:07Like when they introduced the subscription thing, do you remember that?

0:32:10And they changed the...

0:32:12They added like 30 and 15 for the first time,

0:32:14and they did a bunch of news articles, and we all believed at the time,

0:32:18it was like, well, because if you announced this during the WWDC event itself,

0:32:21no one will be talking about anything else.

0:32:23They would just be talking about the money part.

0:32:26So they did it like a week before or something.

0:32:28And then all of the questions got worked out before then.

0:32:31If you remember a couple,

0:32:32I think it was maybe two years ago,

0:32:34they did the thing where they said,

0:32:35"Oh, now you can appeal

0:32:37"and we're not gonna kick you out of the store anymore."

0:32:40Do you remember when there was a whole thing

0:32:42with hay and base camp?

0:32:43- Yeah, hay.

0:32:44- So, I mean, I can't think of anything

0:32:46that's immediately on the horizon.

0:32:48Maybe they'll do something more around like,

0:32:51the third party payment stuff because they have been categorically failing to meet what regulators are looking for.

0:32:59So maybe they have something bigger and maybe they'll do it before WWDC.

0:33:03I don't know but like they have done that in the past like if there's some kind of change to the developer terms or money,

0:33:10they do it before and I think for good reasons so it people can kind of get it out of the system before WWDC begins.

0:33:18Because it feels like this stuff's like maybe we're a month or what three weeks

0:33:23out. I don't have the dates in front of me but I feel like some of that stuff

0:33:26came basically the week before and so there's definitely still time. I agree

0:33:30with you I think there's more. They're pretty active right now right? They are.

0:33:34So it would I would it would suggest you know so like you got like the active is

0:33:38an active volcano right and there might be an eruption now between now and WWDC.

0:33:43It's more likely to stay active, you know, now that it is. Or something.

0:33:47Or something like that. But it does seem like they are just like, they're pumping out stuff right now.

0:33:53Like, if it would have been just the accessibility stuff, it'd be like, "Oh, that makes sense, there's a day for it."

0:33:58But like, in the past week or two, there's just been like a bunch of press releases and they're just putting things out all over the place.

0:34:05Like, left, right, and center.

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0:35:38have this week, we have next week, then it's the Ricky's, oh boy, then it's WWDC.

0:35:45Oh my. Oh, it's so soon! Today we're gonna take a look back at both TVOS 15 and

0:35:54and watchOS 8, then next week we will do Mac OS whatever it is 12?

0:36:0012.

0:36:01100?

0:36:02What Mac OS is it 12?

0:36:04100.

0:36:051200.

0:36:061200.

0:36:071200.

0:36:08And then it's Ricky's time.

0:36:09I guess it's probably worth noting now, we're recording the Ricky's in advance, so I actually

0:36:15want to bring up something to the court if I can approach the bench.

0:36:20If I remember rightly based on the rules, as if somebody could imagine remembering the

0:36:26rules.

0:36:27I have a document.

0:36:28It begins, I mean, if any have changed, the scoring begins...

0:36:32The document is accurate though, let me open the document.

0:36:35Okay, the scoring begins once the episode ends, right?

0:36:38Because if that's the case, we get an extra week.

0:36:42Yeah, let me read it.

0:36:44Scoring is completed during recording and cannot be modified once an episode is complete.

0:36:49So we have that part of it.

0:36:51For keynote rookies, the scoring window starts

0:36:53when the event begins and closes when the picks are scored.

0:36:57- Something could happen between when we record in WWDC,

0:37:01right, and we're not gonna get it.

0:37:02But it's 'cause the reason I mention it,

0:37:03it's a longer gap this time.

0:37:05- It is.

0:37:06So for example, let's just say that my risky pick was

0:37:11Apple allows third-party payment processors

0:37:15in the App Store.

0:37:16If they announce that before WWDC,

0:37:19but after I made the pick, I don't get the point.

0:37:22- Okay. - According to the rules.

0:37:23- That's good to know for now.

0:37:25And I'll be, I'll keep that in mind

0:37:26when I'm working on my picks next week.

0:37:28- Yep. - Definitely.

0:37:29- So no, no, no, hold on.

0:37:30Can you repeat that? - Yep.

0:37:31- Can you repeat, I got confused.

0:37:32So we got-- - My example?

0:37:33- Yes.

0:37:35- Okay, so say, just say that my Ricky's is,

0:37:39Ricky's is is, my Ricky pick is,

0:37:42Apple allows third party payment processors

0:37:44in the App Store. - Yeah.

0:37:45but they announced that, so we're recording early

0:37:49because of some travel stuff.

0:37:51It'll be out the regular day,

0:37:53but we're gonna record it a few days early.

0:37:55Say that Apple announces that before WOBD-C,

0:37:59but after our recording, then I wouldn't get the point.

0:38:04Now, in a way that's not new

0:38:05because we've always recorded and released the Ricky's

0:38:09several days before the keynote.

0:38:11It just, there's a few more days now

0:38:13between recording and publication that make that possible.

0:38:16- It feels like we're usually in a downtime.

0:38:18- Right.

0:38:19- Where I feel like it won't be as much.

0:38:22It's like a full week, right?

0:38:24So we'll see.

0:38:25Just, I want to just get that out

0:38:27before I start working on my picks.

0:38:29And also I wanted to say it clearly now,

0:38:34so people don't start sending us tweets

0:38:36if something happens, right?

0:38:37Like everyone understands now

0:38:39we've very clearly stated the rules, okay?

0:38:42Let's look back at tvOS 15.

0:38:44- All right, yeah.

0:38:45Big, big release, right?

0:38:48- I think, yeah, I mean, there was stuff.

0:38:51I think there was more than 14, honestly.

0:38:53Oh, I don't remember tvOS 14 now.

0:38:55They all blur, you know, at a certain point.

0:38:57- It doesn't help.

0:38:58It doesn't help that all they do

0:38:59is like a 10 minute segment, maybe even less.

0:39:03- If they do that.

0:39:04- A lot of work needs to happen post keynote.

0:39:06- Yeah.

0:39:07- If you're in the tvOS space like I am, you know?

0:39:10the forums really go wild.

0:39:12- Right.

0:39:13- You know, TVOS forums.

0:39:14- That TVOS underground really popping off.

0:39:17- These things aren't on Reddit.

0:39:19It's a private forum for TVOS.

0:39:22TVOS 15 allowed you to be able to join WiFi networks

0:39:29that need a web browser login,

0:39:31which is something the Apple watch could do

0:39:33a really long time ago.

0:39:35But hey, we don't have to worry about that.

0:39:37We got it in TVOS 15.

0:39:38So if you took an Apple TV with you on your vacation,

0:39:43you could plug it in and you'd be able to connect

0:39:45to the hotel wifi, right?

0:39:47- Yeah.

0:39:48- That's the thing.

0:39:48- A lot of companies have this or schools have this, right?

0:39:51It's just making setting up the Apple TV

0:39:54a little bit easier if you don't have ethernet.

0:39:57- I think they're called captive logins.

0:39:59- That's right.

0:40:00In fact, this is a real throwback for you.

0:40:03With the iPod touch, we discontinued,

0:40:05I was watching a few iPod touch keynotes this week,

0:40:09just sort of in the background.

0:40:11And that's one of the reasons they said that Safari

0:40:15needed to be on the iPod touch

0:40:17was for captive portal login stuff.

0:40:19So you could then download music

0:40:20in the iTunes music store.

0:40:22- You were just watching iPod touch keynotes

0:40:24in the background?

0:40:25- Yeah, just leave them running, you know?

0:40:27- Yeah.

0:40:28Steven, I need you to stop highlighting things

0:40:32in the Google doc.

0:40:33- Okay.

0:40:34- You make it very hard for me to read.

0:40:35- Why does he do that?

0:40:36- I don't know why he does that.

0:40:38Steven does this though, he does it on all the shows.

0:40:40So we use Google Docs, right?

0:40:42We can be in Google Docs all at the same time,

0:40:44we can be collaborating, you know,

0:40:46each of us can be typing, wow, this is a great time.

0:40:49But if you highlight something as a Google Docs user,

0:40:52it highlights it for everyone else in a different color.

0:40:56- Yeah, it's just like a thing,

0:40:57just like moving my hand around, you know?

0:40:59- Can you do it somewhere else though?

0:41:02I need my own separate highlightable.

0:41:06- You need a fidget spinner is what you need.

0:41:07- Yeah, this is not a fidget toy, man.

0:41:09It's Google Docs.

0:41:11- This is like the official cursor resting area

0:41:13when you recall with John.

0:41:14- This is, so as well, like, you know you get like,

0:41:18you get like Fisher-Price toys or whatever for your kids,

0:41:20right, and they're like meant to look like

0:41:23things that adults do.

0:41:25We need to get you a version of that,

0:41:27but it's like a document.

0:41:28It's like my first show notes.

0:41:31and you can just click around in there

0:41:33and do whatever you want and it's not gonna affect anyone.

0:41:35- Change everything to Comic Sans.

0:41:37So you were burning me about watching iPod Touch keynotes

0:41:41and now you're burning me about my Google Doc hygiene.

0:41:44- Well, I mean, the Google Doc thing,

0:41:46you brought that on yourself.

0:41:47I think you kind of brought it all on yourself.

0:41:49I'm just intrigued, you know, like the things you get up to,

0:41:53but I guess when you're a historian,

0:41:55a noted Apple historian, you've got to stay up on the history.

0:41:59- Published Apple historian.

0:42:01- Pub published, wait, where?

0:42:05- I mean, literally right now being published.

0:42:07- Maxstories.net.

0:42:09- Maxstories.net, I wrote a book, I have a calendar.

0:42:12- Self published.

0:42:12- Can we have a second calendar?

0:42:13- Self published book.

0:42:15- Wow.

0:42:17- Wow.

0:42:18- Well, it is self published though,

0:42:19you know what I'm saying?

0:42:21It is a self published book.

0:42:22- It was a--

0:42:23- But you are, I called you a note,

0:42:24I called you a noted Apple historian,

0:42:26I felt like that was good enough

0:42:27and then you had to try and take it another place.

0:42:30Noted, but you are world renowned.

0:42:33How about that?

0:42:34- I like it.

0:42:35- Yeah, world renowned Apple story.

0:42:37You can use another device to authorize purchases,

0:42:40which is great.

0:42:41- That is cool.

0:42:42That is actually a fantastic feature.

0:42:44- And this is good for a couple of reasons, right?

0:42:46'Cause it can let you use face ID,

0:42:47which is like good for making sure things

0:42:51are bought correctly.

0:42:52- Yes.

0:42:53- Not just having them like randomly purchased

0:42:55because I know like, I'm sure like the both of you

0:42:58before then, you'd enter in your password

0:43:01and I just had to have the setting of like,

0:43:03never ask me again.

0:43:04- Yup.

0:43:05- Because like, I just can't keep typing in like,

0:43:08swipe left, swipe right, swipe left, it's just terrible.

0:43:11- And they did the thing, I think it may be TVOS 13 or 14,

0:43:16where you could use your iPhone as a keyboard.

0:43:19And at some point that even supported

0:43:21like the auto-fill password.

0:43:23- That's the password thing, yup.

0:43:24Which is great, but that was still too slow.

0:43:27But this is fantastic.

0:43:29Friday nights are movie night in my house.

0:43:32So we order pizza, watch a movie.

0:43:35Oh, I like pizza.

0:43:36And you won't like Steven's pizza though.

0:43:38No, I don't get to eat the pizza.

0:43:40Everybody else does.

0:43:41Do you not get the gluten-free pizza?

0:43:43The dairy's the problem.

0:43:44Dairy-free cheese.

0:43:46Yeah, dairy-free cheese is terrible.

0:43:48Sylvia has the same problem.

0:43:49So yeah, I get it.

0:43:50It's no good.

0:43:51Yeah, that is the biggest issue, right?

0:43:53Is the dairy free cheese, it's not so good.

0:43:57I'm sorry if you love it or like,

0:44:00I'm sorry if you like Steven are bound to it,

0:44:03but I think it's not great.

0:44:06- No, it's not great.

0:44:07- But yeah, movies.

0:44:08- Anyways, sometimes we've written a movie or buy movies,

0:44:10sometimes we watch something,

0:44:12most of the time we're streaming something on Disney Plus

0:44:13or whatever, but it's kind of nice.

0:44:15Like if the kids want to rent something and they ask

0:44:18and like, yeah, go ahead.

0:44:19And then I can just like have my phone out real quick

0:44:21and they can still have the remote even, right?

0:44:24'Cause they don't need the remote

0:44:25to do to like trigger it or anything.

0:44:27This legitimately, I think is like the best feature

0:44:29they added in tvOS 15.

0:44:31- What was the last, what was the movie on last Friday?

0:44:34- What was the movie last Friday?

0:44:35- Yeah, and also what was the pizza?

0:44:37- Well, we do one cheese and one sausage

0:44:41from this place in the neighborhood.

0:44:43- What does that mean?

0:44:44- One cheese pizza.

0:44:45- What is a cheese pizza?

0:44:47Every pizza is cheese.

0:44:48- No, but it's just cheese, right?

0:44:50So like, it's like a low moisture mozzarella.

0:44:54- Yeah.

0:44:55No tomato sauce?

0:44:57- Well, no, it has tomato sauce,

0:44:58but it's like, it's everything up to the cheese

0:45:00and then that's it.

0:45:01You know, there's no toppings.

0:45:03- So margarita.

0:45:03- No, that has other stuff on it.

0:45:06- No, no, that's not true.

0:45:07Okay, so I'm gonna act as the immediate.

0:45:09- Can you translate this for me?

0:45:11Can you translate this for me, Myke?

0:45:13- Federico, margarita, Steven, cheese, right?

0:45:17Because there is a thing in America

0:45:19to margherita pizza and but but Federico does not want to know what that is I'll

0:45:23tell you that right now Federico does not want to know what that is a pizza

0:45:26with alcohol in it and sometimes you get salt around the room do not tell me what

0:45:29a margherita pizza no that's no he's talking about margherita the alcohol now

0:45:33he's trying to throw you off all right and then a sausage is just like it's

0:45:37like spicy sausage like kind of like an Italian style sausage yeah exactly which

0:45:42is really good I'm trying to think of what movie we watched on Friday remember

0:45:46the pizza doesn't remember the movie. I don't watch red notice over the

0:45:51weekend. It's the picture one of those net no net no that's what we don't read

0:45:54isn't the one of the rock and Ryan Reynolds and Gal Gadot great movie

0:46:00surprising amount of swastikas in it though. I'm just going to say oh like

0:46:04just a surprising amount. So this was an original movie and it's a lot of Nazis

0:46:09in it and a lot of swastikas. I was very surprised by this good movie, but like

0:46:15surprising amount of swastikas like it wasn't what I was expecting took a real

0:46:19turn the movie and then there was lots of it and I was surprised by this but

0:46:25otherwise funny movie okay I am filling time for you to find out your Friday

0:46:33movie oh I'm not supposed to be looking like who am I gonna ask I'm the only one

0:46:38here what about your purchase history I think we I'm sure we streamed it so I

0:46:42- Oh, well then that whole story was a lie, wasn't it?

0:46:44That setup of like--

0:46:45- Sometimes we purchase things,

0:46:47sometimes we stream things.

0:46:48I wanna say Friday they just streamed something

0:46:50that we had already seen.

0:46:52- Right.

0:46:53Picture in picture for HomeKit cameras

0:46:55was added in tvOS 15.

0:46:56- Oh yeah.

0:46:58- As was the store tab in the TV app,

0:47:01which still sends you to other places, which annoys me.

0:47:04- Yeah, we've talked about-- - No, I just want that.

0:47:07- We've talked about this before,

0:47:08but the way that sort of the legacy iTunes media store

0:47:12shows up across these different apps

0:47:15and like on the phone, there's still the iTunes store.

0:47:19Like it's just all so broken and confusing

0:47:22and they really need to, I think,

0:47:25have like a universal, like this is the way it works, right?

0:47:29If you wanna buy something, it's the same flow

0:47:32no matter what app you're in, it's a bit messy.

0:47:34- I have to raise a complaint with the Discord.

0:47:38Didn't I say nobody tell Federico what Americans call Margarita?

0:47:43Didn't I tell...

0:47:43I'm sorry but I saw that photo.

0:47:44Didn't I say?

0:47:45I saw that...

0:47:46I know but this is why I said don't tell him!

0:47:48That first photo is all wrong!

0:47:51This is a cone of like silence or trust here, whatever it's called.

0:47:56I said don't tell him and what did they all do?

0:47:58They immediately told him.

0:48:00Now look everyone, you know what he's gonna do if you tell him.

0:48:04Don't tell him!

0:48:05Because we just, then it's like we spend the next week arguing about pizza,

0:48:09which is like the worst argument to ever have, you know?

0:48:13There's no need to argue.

0:48:14But it's gonna get that way. It's gonna get that way eventually.

0:48:17They're all gonna start saying things to you.

0:48:20"You don't know what this is."

0:48:21"I don't know what that is."

0:48:22"Oh, what's a bagel?"

0:48:23You know what I mean?

0:48:24Look, it's fine. They're all wrong and I'm right. Done.

0:48:26See where we're going? We're already going there.

0:48:29Support for the Apple Music Voice Plan.

0:48:31A thing I always forget exists.

0:48:33I always forget about this until I read about it.

0:48:35That's the thing that exists.

0:48:37Yeah. If you use the Apple Music voice plan, please tweet at iMyke and let him know.

0:48:42I would love to know.

0:48:44Oh, we have seen, I should have mentioned, we have seen a bunch of Apple library users, by the way.

0:48:49Shout out to all the people who mentioned us on Twitter.

0:48:53I want to say, I want to say at least 30 to 40 people have reached out, saying they are real

0:49:02App Library users? Now the question is are these crisis actors hired by Apple to say that they use the App Library?

0:49:12This is a false flag operation that I've set up.

0:49:15I don't know that for sure. I continue to believe that Kate is one of the true App Library users, maybe alongside Myke.

0:49:27A real user like me.

0:49:29These other folks on Twitter I'm not sure.

0:49:32They're part of the less than 5% of bot accounts that exist on Twitter.

0:49:39What's next, Myke?

0:49:40SharePlay was added to tvOS, like it was added everywhere, but the good thing that tvOS got

0:49:45for SharePlay was enabling group workouts for Fitness Plus on separate devices, though.

0:49:50Don't be like, don't get too excited.

0:49:53So you and I could do a class together across the world?

0:49:56our own devices but the TV could be one of those devices. Okay. Steven you're doing it again.

0:50:01Highlighting yeah because you said it so I'm just gonna keep doing it. Stop it. For all of you is

0:50:08a feature. Oh yeah, John uses this maybe. For all of you. For all of you. This is for you. For this

0:50:18(laughing)

0:50:21- Now what is going on?

0:50:22We're losing threads so bad today.

0:50:24This is the issue with recording a member show

0:50:26before the radio show.

0:50:27♪ To all of you American girls in the movies ♪

0:50:30Isn't that a song?

0:50:31That's a song.

0:50:32That's a song from the OC.

0:50:33- Oh, by the way,

0:50:34we haven't even spoken about Eurovision.

0:50:37- Oh, that's right.

0:50:38Should have been in follow-up.

0:50:40- It should have been everywhere.

0:50:41Eurovision was incredible this year for a million reasons.

0:50:44It was great.

0:50:45Everybody was a winner, you know?

0:50:46Is that what your tweets were about the other night?

0:50:49'Cause it was just, it was one of those things

0:50:50like you're tweeting about a thing

0:50:52that clearly needed no context.

0:50:55You were busy with the cheese pizza, man,

0:50:57and you were not watching TV.

0:50:58Yeah, you wouldn't know.

0:50:59You got the cheese going on there.

0:51:02Yeah, I was putting some fresh basil salt

0:51:05and extra virgin olive oil on my pizza.

0:51:07(laughing)

0:51:09Like you're supposed to do.

0:51:11Just like you're supposed to.

0:51:13With definitely, definitely regular tomato sauce.

0:51:16Yeah, it was incredible. Everything was fantastic.

0:51:20It was a runaway success for everyone,

0:51:23except those that it wasn't a success for.

0:51:25But by and large, the curse is over.

0:51:29Europe has a new villain and it's not the United Kingdom.

0:51:34So, right?

0:51:36It was great.

0:51:37In what sense?

0:51:38It's great now, 'cause we're not the villains anymore.

0:51:42We're loved by all of Europe.

0:51:45and I'm happy we're back, you know?

0:51:48- Well, you know, you don't know what you got

0:51:50till it's gone.

0:51:51So after Brexit, they realized how much they needed you.

0:51:55- Well, no, 'cause there has already been one

0:51:56because the one after Brexit

0:51:58was when we got literally zero points.

0:52:01- About Brexit, I just found out.

0:52:05So there's, no, no, no, it's safe content.

0:52:08Don't worry about it.

0:52:09It's just sad.

0:52:10There's gonna be elections in Viterbo, my hometown,

0:52:14for the next mayor soon, I think like next month,

0:52:18there is a local party.

0:52:22Like, I don't know if it's like a list

0:52:23or like a proper political party.

0:52:26I just saw the signs and I was like, oh my God.

0:52:29There is a thing now, a list in Viterbo called Ital Exit.

0:52:34- Yeah.

0:52:35- As the name of the party.

0:52:38- This has been happening in a bunch of countries.

0:52:41I'm not really sure why anyone has seen

0:52:43what's happened to us and it's like I want some of that like there's been zero benefits

0:52:48to my knowledge like I don't know why anybody wants to to go into this but this is going

0:52:55to happen more and more now like cut people are going to try and do it but I don't think

0:52:58it's going to work anyway Eurovision was amazing our song was amazing Maniskin were amazing

0:53:04it was just all just superb I was having the best time everybody won yes everyone wins

0:53:11except you know for you know well they weren't in it, you know anyway for all of you. They

0:53:25said so if you use profiles on Apple TV, which is a feature that I always forget exists fuse

0:53:33profiles on Apple TV. So multiple people have in their own user accounts, their own recommendations

0:53:38and stuff. There is a "for all of you" recommendations which is something that is appropriate for

0:53:45all users based on the stuff that they're watching. Which is very cool, very smart.

0:53:49Didn't know the one true John used this, but there you go. They improved the TV controls

0:53:56in general so like the native TV player kind of got reworked and things were a bit clearer.

0:54:02They added the AirPods pop-up detection thing like "hey, there's some AirPods, you wanna

0:54:06to connect them. I don't like this feature, it annoys me because I see it pop up on my

0:54:10TV all the time and I don't like it. You can use Siri on other devices to control what's

0:54:17going on on your Apple TV.

0:54:18Wait, really?

0:54:19Wait, what?

0:54:20Mm-hmm.

0:54:21How?

0:54:22So you say like, if you're watching something, you'd be like, "Hey, pause this on the TV

0:54:27or something."

0:54:28Nah, no way. That's not a feature. No.

0:54:30By the way, this is the truly sad thing. So all of the other look backs that we've done

0:54:36The link in the show notes is to the apple.com page which has all the features for tvos. It is a support document

0:54:43Truly sad right like that is truly sad

0:54:48Let me find it and I will read this you could say it's the

0:54:52kbase article of the week play music or start watching a movie or show with Siri commands from home pod and

0:55:00iOS or iPadOS. And there's another article, which this could be the KBase article of the

0:55:05week, so you could say, "Play Ted Lasso on the TV." And it would do it. So there you

0:55:11go.

0:55:12I can't believe I missed this thing, but okay.

0:55:18Because realistically, you don't need it, right? You just pick up the remote and use

0:55:22the remote. That's why I never even think to do this. I'm just not, you know, I just

0:55:29use the remote like I'm good with that. What else do we have? HomePod mini stereo pair,

0:55:35so they added this as a feature if you have two HomePod minis you can use those as a stereo

0:55:38pair. And then also eARC, which is HDMI ARC or eARC. This basically allows you to use

0:55:49connected speakers like HomePods that are connected to an Apple TV via HDMI technology

0:55:56if you have devices that all support it, you can use them as the video output for any content

0:56:01on the television. So if you are playing your Xbox, you can use your HomePods as the speakers

0:56:07for that. That is TVOS 15.

0:56:10I mean, pretty good release, I would say. Too bad that like, I forgot about half of

0:56:16these features. Like I only remembered about the eARC and the HomeKit camera support.

0:56:21- Yeah, I mean as well, I forgot about some of them too,

0:56:25but because they're things that are features

0:56:28for things I don't use already.

0:56:30Like for example, the For All of You thing,

0:56:33I don't use profiles, I have no need for that.

0:56:36So I don't know that that feature exists,

0:56:38I would never come across it.

0:56:40Or I've never taken an Apple TV out of my home,

0:56:44so I don't need to know about the captive thing.

0:56:47But these are just good features for a,

0:56:50I think, already pretty mature platform.

0:56:52- Yeah, that's the thing, I guess.

0:56:54It's really hard to make exciting updates to tvOS now,

0:56:59because for most people--

0:57:00- It should be that way, though.

0:57:01Like, it is one of those things where it's like,

0:57:03I want it to be boring.

0:57:05Like, I don't, this is not a platform

0:57:08that I want them to redesign every two years, right?

0:57:10- No, but also, I keep thinking about the features

0:57:12you imagined in that "Wishlist" episode.

0:57:16And I'm like, there is still room for some creativity.

0:57:20No need to redesign the whole thing.

0:57:21- But I think one or two of those things

0:57:25could pop up every year for the next five years

0:57:28and that would be perfectly fine.

0:57:29- Yeah, make a tvOS grid again is what I'm saying, you know?

0:57:33- I would say it's already great.

0:57:35It's better now than it's ever been.

0:57:36And that isn't the same for all of Apple's operating systems.

0:57:39Like tvOS doesn't regress, which is good.

0:57:44They could put that on a sign.

0:57:45tvOS doesn't regress, you can put that on a sign.

0:57:47Print that one.

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0:59:32Let's take a look back now at WatchOS 8.

0:59:36You gotta wind the clock back.

0:59:38Yep.

0:59:39That was good.

0:59:40That was good.

0:59:41I didn't give you the benefit for that.

0:59:43That was a good pun.

0:59:44I enjoyed it.

0:59:45Portraits face and the world time face.

0:59:49It's so bad.

0:59:50Portraits face and world time face.

0:59:53Yeah.

0:59:53I mean, I know people like portrait photos and stuff

0:59:57and I've tried this watch face a couple of times,

1:00:00but it just looks so, it just looks so weird.

1:00:03To me, if you're gonna have photos of people

1:00:08as your watch, wallpaper, watch face thing,

1:00:13This is a nice way to do it.

1:00:16I am just not one of these people

1:00:17that would ever have a photo watch face.

1:00:20No.

1:00:20At that point, I don't know.

1:00:22For me, I don't know why I'm wearing it, you know?

1:00:26I love this review that Alex has a photo of himself

1:00:30with a slingshot for some reason.

1:00:31It's very funny.

1:00:32Gotta show off the portrait, you know?

1:00:35It's the way to do it.

1:00:36Maybe he's actually dabbing in this image

1:00:39and it's just like-- That's a good photo though.

1:00:42He's just digitally added in a slingshot to hide the embarrassment of the dabbing.

1:00:47Oh my god, I don't remember that photo. That's so good.

1:00:51Oh, I think he added these photos after as updates to the review.

1:00:56That slingshot photo is so good.

1:00:59Okay.

1:01:02The World Time Face is a face that I like but is too busy.

1:01:07That's my...

1:01:09That's what I have to say.

1:01:10Oh, that's the face I don't understand.

1:01:12Yeah, it is very complicated.

1:01:14I feel like I need a degree just to understand this watch face.

1:01:17My complaint with this now is the same as my complaint then,

1:01:22which is like, it's actually my complaint of a lot of Apple watch faces,

1:01:25where they are just replicating the way that analog watch faces work and look,

1:01:31which I don't think is necessarily the best way to interpret that

1:01:36when you have no physical constraints.

1:01:40Right, so like, world time watch faces look like this because of the physical constraints that they have.

1:01:46I think you...

1:01:48then sometimes I wonder if

1:01:51Apple's watch team are trying to reimagine any of these things or just recreate them.

1:01:58And I would argue a little bit more reimagining could happen with some of these things.

1:02:07I'm looking at the photos of the wartime face again, and I still don't know what I'm looking at.

1:02:13So there's the time in the middle, and then there's a bunch of repeating numbers.

1:02:17Like, one of the images in our story, in the bottom, like in the inner circle, it says 10, 11, 12, 12.

1:02:28So twice 12, 13, 14, 16. What's it counting?

1:02:34Do you want me to, I can try again to explain this.

1:02:36- You have tried, yes.

1:02:38Please try again. - Let me try again.

1:02:39I'm gonna try again, all right.

1:02:41- Start from, okay. - The hands.

1:02:42- So the hands.

1:02:43- In the middle.

1:02:44- Are showing me the time.

1:02:46- Showing me, showing you your time.

1:02:48- My time.

1:02:49- Do you see the arrow at the bottom?

1:02:51Right, you see that you got the ring,

1:02:52you got that little red arrow that's on a couple of them.

1:02:55- Yes.

1:02:56- Right, that is pointing to your time zone.

1:03:01So you can see here that that's either Mexico,

1:03:04it's Mexico for some reason.

1:03:05Pointing in which sense it's central time. I think it's central time

1:03:10Okay, so this yeah because Mexico City is in central time cool. So there you go

1:03:14So you see it's pointing to the number 11

1:03:18Yes, which is the current hour right because we just established that it's 11 32 or something. Yes, okay

1:03:25Okay, so that's the same

1:03:28That's the hour, right?

1:03:30The rest of the ring that goes around you see like you got the numbers that go around

1:03:35They are hours still so 11 12 they've got 12 twice of daylight savings in that point 12 13 14 15

1:03:42That's actually no 15, which is again daylight savings

1:03:4512 13 14 16 17 18 18 you see they go around, right?

1:03:50Those are the hours in the corresponding cities that are listed. So for example, can you see Rio as you go around to the right?

1:03:59Rio has 13 that means it is 1332

1:04:04two because you are looking at the extra note in the hour in that place and then

1:04:09the minutes will be whatever the minutes currently are okay it's easy for real

1:04:14because it's aligned with the dot what about New York New York is aligned with

1:04:20the 12 dot is it it's like what is in the middle of the name it's like close

1:04:25enough right what about Moscow Moscow where is it's like it's in between 20

1:04:33Yeah, Moscow is aligned with the moon for some reason.

1:04:36With the moon.

1:04:37I don't know why.

1:04:38The moon is not a number.

1:04:39Yeah, that one is unhelpful.

1:04:41I'm not really sure why there's a moon there, but let's imagine that's 19.

1:04:45Let's imagine that's seven because it's in the middle of the 18 and 20.

1:04:49You see the 18, 18 and the 12, 12, right?

1:04:52This is Apple trying to be like, "Hey, this is digital, so we can change the number arbitrarily."

1:04:57But by doing that in the old stuff, but using still all of the conventions of an analog

1:05:02you make it more complicated. It looks like a bug honestly like yeah why does

1:05:07it say 12 12? It's like it's because of daylight savings but that still makes it

1:05:11more complicated so like they're choosing places where the time zones are

1:05:14over that yeah anyway my I have a physical watch it doesn't do this the

1:05:17physical watch that I have is 1 to 24 the whole way around. What about the outer

1:05:21ring of cities like the second row of cities? They are still lining up with the

1:05:28dots so if you take a look at the dots right you see it right so like Hawaii is

1:05:34lining up with that dot right above it where there's a Sun for some reason Los

1:05:39Angeles is lining up with a 9 Denver with the 10 Mexico the 11 New York 12

1:05:43Caracas 12 3 o 13 you get it honestly just the hour yeah the minutes or

1:05:49whatever the minutes are okay thank you I'm just gonna grab my phone and look

1:05:54at a widget for time zones. You know? There you go. Yeah. You know? This is purely visual.

1:06:00I feel like I'm looking at the Rosetta Stone or something to decipher this. I'm just gonna

1:06:05look at a widget. And this is my thing, right? Like, an actual watch that does world time,

1:06:11I think is just a beautiful thing. It's an incredibly complex thing. It's like a nice

1:06:15thing to own, right? Because like, it's doing a lot, right? There is a clever piece of physical

1:06:22engineering that it can do this.

1:06:25'Cause you can set it and you can set it in different ways.

1:06:27And I just think that it's very clever,

1:06:28it's very nice engineering.

1:06:29With a digital watch, there's no engineering, right?

1:06:34Like it's just software that's doing this.

1:06:37Have the software present this information to me

1:06:40in a clearer and easier to understand way.

1:06:42That is my, this has been a terrible conversation

1:06:46because it's so visual based.

1:06:48I apologize, we will now move on.

1:06:50Multiple timers in the timers app.

1:06:52It got all the way to watch OS 8

1:06:54before we got that as a feature.

1:06:55- Ridiculous.

1:06:56I mean, this is like table stakes.

1:06:58We talked about this, about the HomePod too.

1:07:01Why would you not have this from day one?

1:07:04- The Photos app gained featured photos and memories.

1:07:09- Great.

1:07:10- I don't know who is looking at this on their watch.

1:07:12- I do it all the time.

1:07:13- Do you all sync photos to your watch?

1:07:15- I don't know.

1:07:16- I mean, it's doing something.

1:07:18I don't know why.

1:07:19I've got recent and featured outside of my country. This is just it's doing for me. Whatever the standard is. Do you?

1:07:26Know it's doing whatever look at that. I got a memory

1:07:30I open it and I've got my favorites some features and a memory of Father's Day 2010. Oh great

1:07:37I have I don't have my favorites for some reason. Are you a father in 2010?

1:07:41See what yeah. Yeah, you are. Okay. It's been a father forever man. I was born a dad really in some ways

1:07:49There you go big data energy constant a redesign of the home app on Apple watch. Yes

1:07:55It had some quicker access to some scenes

1:07:58It had that little you know those little circles that are at the top of the home app

1:08:02It had those really like it indicates things the status things and I would say some smarts

1:08:07I want to read you this text from the watch OS 8 page because I read this today and I kind of couldn't believe it

1:08:13when I read it

1:08:15When one of your smart devices is activated,

1:08:18WatchOS 8 can automatically make suggestions for others nearby.

1:08:23For instance, if someone rings your connected doorbell,

1:08:26you might see options like unlocking the door or turning on the entry lights.

1:08:29I have never seen this.

1:08:31Well, but my issue is, is can and might.

1:08:36Why? Why does it not do it 100% of the time?

1:08:40That's weird.

1:08:41Sometimes it's lazy.

1:08:43It doesn't want to.

1:08:44It's like, nah man, I'm not going to do it.

1:08:46This is a great feature, right?

1:08:48If you have a HomeKit doorbell and a HomeKit lock and someone rings your doorbell, having

1:08:53it pop up on your watch to be like, unlock the door or show me the home camera every

1:08:58single time, I think that would be really smart.

1:09:01But what I don't like is they put two qualifiers in this statement.

1:09:06WatchOS 8 can automatically make suggestions.

1:09:09If someone rings your connected doorbell, you might see options like unlocking the door.

1:09:14They're like, it can, we're not saying that it will, and it may display an option, but

1:09:21sometimes it doesn't want to.

1:09:23It might do it.

1:09:24I find that very strange.

1:09:26I don't know how reliable this is.

1:09:27I don't have whatever this might be device-wise, but I just found that text to be kind of funny.

1:09:35cards and keys in wallet to support the new features added to the wallet app a

1:09:41find my items app was added I think they split them out into my devices find

1:09:47people find items yeah you have three find apps on the watch awesome the very

1:09:53best feature added to watch OS 8 for the series 7 watch is the full QWERTY

1:09:57keyboard swipe type this is the only sure that matters I love it I love this

1:10:02This is the best feature they've done in years.

1:10:05If I am ever going to send a message on my watch, this is the only way I want to do that.

1:10:11And I send more messages from my watch now that they added this.

1:10:16Because my problem with the dictation is, if you're halfway through the message and

1:10:20it starts getting it wrong.

1:10:22What do you do then?

1:10:25Yeah.

1:10:26But with the swipe typing, I have full control.

1:10:28Every word that's wrong, I can just delete it immediately.

1:10:32I love it. The Breathe app got redesigned. It added some new animations and stuff and

1:10:38something called Mindful Minutes. So just like a mindful meditation kind of thing. Fall

1:10:44detection for workouts. And this is like a specific option which I believe is always

1:10:51on. And then fall detection is the thing that you have to opt into or is on in certain circumstances

1:10:57based on age and health of the wearer, which I think is a thing you can set up in the family

1:11:03thing you're here. Steven, they have this now. You've always had the full detection

1:11:09turned on. Yeah, I do have it turned on because you're old and clumsy because I ride my bike

1:11:14a bunch during the workout. Oh, I guess you would have always have had it on right, but

1:11:20now it would work automatically. They added better bike workout stuff. So detection for

1:11:26the type of bikes, like e-bikes and stuff like that.

1:11:28And they, you know, they, if you have Apple Watch and AirPods,

1:11:31you can use more commands just like without having to talk

1:11:34to Siri, specifically invoke Siri.

1:11:37An always on API for developers.

1:11:40I think Federico added that.

1:11:41I don't know what it means.

1:11:42- Yeah, it means that now developers can check

1:11:44if the always on watch face is enabled

1:11:46that they can tune their app UI specifically

1:11:50for the always on watch face.

1:11:52Like they can decide what gets shown or not.

1:11:56I have never ever seen this,

1:11:57but also I don't have any third-party apps on my watch.

1:12:00So, like I know that this, like I know this as a fact,

1:12:05I haven't seen it in practice.

1:12:08I'm sure that Carrot Weather has it, right?

1:12:11I'm sure like of all apps, I'm sure that Carrot Weather

1:12:14has support for the Always On watchways.

1:12:16That's not an API, I don't know anything more than this.

1:12:19I'm sorry.

1:12:20- Wait, hang on.

1:12:21- Yeah.

1:12:22- Do you say you have no third-party apps on your watch?

1:12:24I don't think I do. No.

1:12:27Wait.

1:12:28Why would I? They're useless.

1:12:30What do you mean, why would you?

1:12:31It's just--

1:12:32I have fantasti-cow, carrot weather.

1:12:33Nah, I don't need it. To-do-ist.

1:12:35Yeah, I use reminders.

1:12:36I don't have to-do-ist.

1:12:37I use reminders, I use iCal calendar.

1:12:39So you use Apple's calendar?

1:12:40When I work out, yeah, it's fine.

1:12:42It's like just a widget on the--

1:12:44I'm not criticizing you, I'm just asking.

1:12:46Like, it's perfectly okay to do it.

1:12:47I use-- Overcast.

1:12:48Like, I don't need anything else on the watch.

1:12:52Like, and sometimes these apps,

1:12:53they get installed by mistake and I just delete them.

1:12:56- Interesting.

1:12:57I have stuff on here that I don't use,

1:12:59but the ones that I mentioned,

1:13:01the ones that I use over all the time, right?

1:13:03So like Fantastic Cal and Carrot Weather

1:13:05and Timery now too.

1:13:08- Yes, I really just need my watch for notifications

1:13:11and hard stuff, you know?

1:13:13Like just for notifications, health stuff in general.

1:13:16I don't really interact with my watch.

1:13:20I just wanna see what's coming up.

1:13:21I just wanna see notifications

1:13:22and I want to make sure that it's tracking my heart

1:13:24and making sure that I'm not dying.

1:13:26Yeah.

1:13:27- Then it makes sense.

1:13:28I mean, I don't have so many notification stuff

1:13:31and then I, but I have those three apps.

1:13:32There was the complications on my, my watch face.

1:13:36I found out the, I found a complication,

1:13:37a space for a complication the other day,

1:13:40which I was very happy about.

1:13:41So I used the California face

1:13:42and I didn't know that you could put a complication

1:13:45around the watch face itself.

1:13:48Like one of the circle ones, not one of the corner ones.

1:13:50I had no idea.

1:13:51just it wasn't because I wanted to add because Timery in beta right now there's

1:13:56a they got on the watch and went to add that in there but I didn't want to get

1:13:59rid of pedometer++ but then I could put the pedometer number on the watch face

1:14:03thing. I'm gonna have to install Timery. Timery is good man. That's gonna be my first third party

1:14:11watch up I think. Yeah he's done a great job as always. Also focus modes was the thing that was added not only in

1:14:18control center but just support for them in general on the watch as part of focus

1:14:22modes being everywhere and that is watch OS 8

1:14:27pretty under rule yeah I feel like it's kind of like tvOS right it's pretty

1:14:34mature what else do you really need from your watch so it's just kind of slowed

1:14:38down over time yeah I'm really I mean Mark Gorman said a significant update

1:14:45coming for watchOS and I don't know about that.

1:14:48And new ways to interact with it.

1:14:50Fresh Apple apps.

1:14:52Fresh Apple apps and new ways to interact and a big update for watchOS.

1:14:57That's all he has so far.

1:14:59I like it when we don't...

1:15:01Like, I understand the rumors for hardware and stuff like that, I'm fine.

1:15:05Like, it doesn't bother me, like show me the next iPhone, I don't care.

1:15:08I really...

1:15:09Where I like to be surprised is WWDC.

1:15:12And I prefer it when the room was really quiet for WWDC.

1:15:16WWDC is so much more exciting than iPhone event.

1:15:20I agree with you.

1:15:21Because there is genuine surprises that can happen,

1:15:24which is just not a thing that they can do.

1:15:26And the after is even more exciting.

1:15:30That's the thing about WWDC,

1:15:31because you are surprised during the keynote

1:15:35and the surprise continues after.

1:15:38Good and bad, though, is the problem with the afterwards.

1:15:42Because you see a thing and you're like, "Oh my god, this is going to be so amazing!"

1:15:45And then you find out what it can actually do and you're like, "Oh, this surprises me,

1:15:48I thought it would be better than this!"

1:15:50It's very emotional.

1:15:51It's a very emotional time.

1:15:52It's a very dramatic event.

1:15:54Like, the drama of WWDC is the energy that sustains me for the whole summer, basically.

1:16:00Yep.

1:16:01I can't wait.

1:16:02If you want to learn more about the topics we talked about, head on over to the website

1:16:07relay.fm/connected/398.

1:16:11While you're there, you can join and get connected pro, which is a longer ad free

1:16:16version of the show each and every week.

1:16:18Right now we are in the middle of our annual special.

1:16:21So all relay FM members get access to bonus episodes put out by selected relay

1:16:26shows connected will be out Friday, May 20th.

1:16:30It's in the crossover feed.

1:16:31It is the, uh, the first installment of the connected, ongoing open ended.

1:16:37connected quiz game, which still needs names.

1:16:40If you have ideas for names, let us know.

1:16:42Also, if you, once you listen to this,

1:16:44if you have ideas for types of quizzes, you can let me know.

1:16:48Yeah, so far the temporary title is

1:16:51UCQG, Untitled Connected Quiz Game.

1:16:56UCQG.

1:16:57UCQG.

1:16:58UCQG.

1:16:59UCQG.

1:17:00UCQG.

1:17:02UCQG.

1:17:02Yeah.

1:17:04Yeah, UCQG is over there.

1:17:05Say hi for me.

1:17:06(laughing)

1:17:08You can find us all online.

1:17:14Federico is on Twitter as Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I,

1:17:18and he is the editor-in-chief of MaxStories.net.

1:17:22You can find Myke on Twitter as I-M-Y-K-E,

1:17:25and Myke hosts a bunch of other shows here on Relay FM.

1:17:29You can find me on Twitter as ISMH,

1:17:31and I write over at 512pixels.net.

1:17:35I'd like to thank our sponsors this week,

1:17:36Squarespace, Capital One, and Hover.

1:17:40Until next week, guys, say goodbye.

1:17:42- Bye to you, dear chief.

1:17:43- Cheerio.