397: Tier of Shame


00:00:00   (dramatic music)

00:00:02   Hey y'all and a good old welcome to ya.

00:00:11   This here's Connected, episode 397.

00:00:16   It's made possible by those yonder sponsor folk,

00:00:20   Bombas, Indeed, NetSuite.

00:00:23   You all know I'm Steven Hackett

00:00:25   and I'm more tickled than a preacher on Sunday

00:00:28   to introduce you to my big city friend, Michael Hurley.

00:00:32   - Is this the Disney version of this show?

00:00:35   Is that what's happened now?

00:00:36   - Is this like a church event or NASCAR or-

00:00:41   - It sounds like a prospector to me.

00:00:43   - What is it?

00:00:44   What's the context? - Like a person who's,

00:00:45   like who pans for God.

00:00:46   You've seen "Toy Story 2"?

00:00:48   - Oh, years ago.

00:00:50   - Well, you know, like in Woody's Roundup,

00:00:52   there's the guy, like the evil guy,

00:00:55   spoilers for "Toy Story 2."

00:00:57   That's different, I mean.

00:00:59   He's like the old prospector, you know?

00:01:01   He lives in the town and he pans for gold.

00:01:03   But you know, we had a lot of comments about people liking Federico's intro last week in Italian,

00:01:10   and so I thought I would do one as a Tennessean.

00:01:13   It's really good.

00:01:14   I see what a prospector is, okay.

00:01:17   And I am honored to introduce to the show Federico Vittucci.

00:01:21   Hi Federico.

00:01:22   Hello.

00:01:23   Hello, hi.

00:01:24   not get the Disneyfied version of the intro from me.

00:01:27   - Well, I don't know.

00:01:28   Can you do a southern accent, I guess?

00:01:30   - And here he is.

00:01:32   - No, it's really, no, no.

00:01:34   - Here he is, Federico Vittucci.

00:01:36   - Yes, okay, that works for me.

00:01:39   Yeah. - Wow.

00:01:40   - That does it for me, thank you, thank you.

00:01:42   - Let's start with some follow-up,

00:01:44   and Myke, Apple has made changes to their Trade-In program.

00:01:49   Tell us about this big move.

00:01:50   - Over the last couple of weeks,

00:01:52   have been really upset about trade-in values

00:01:54   for Apple products.

00:01:55   I don't think they do a good enough job.

00:01:57   They're not competitive enough on pricing,

00:02:00   and that usually you can find better deals outside.

00:02:03   So Apple have addressed this by offering less money

00:02:05   for their trade-ins now.

00:02:08   This is their-- in the United States at the moment,

00:02:11   they have significantly reduced the amount of money

00:02:14   they will pay you for all products that kept iPhones,

00:02:16   so Macs and iPads and Apple Watches.

00:02:19   For example, a MacBook Pro, the previous trade-in value

00:02:23   was 1350 and now it's $1,000.

00:02:26   So big, big differences.

00:02:29   - Can you read the Mac Pro values for us?

00:02:32   - Yes, so previously the Mac Pro,

00:02:34   you would get up to $2,720 for.

00:02:38   Now I'm assuming this is for the current Mac Pro,

00:02:43   I'm gonna assume.

00:02:45   - Yes, so to confirm this, I went through the process

00:02:47   with my old Mac Pro serial number.

00:02:50   - Yep.

00:02:51   - And they offered me this amount.

00:02:52   It was insulting.

00:02:53   - $2,720.

00:02:54   It's now $2,000.

00:02:55   - Oh man.

00:02:56   - So you can use $720.

00:02:59   Apple Watch Series 2, no longer available for trading.

00:03:02   So I don't know what they're doing, man.

00:03:06   - There's other options as we discussed, right?

00:03:09   - Mm-hmm.

00:03:10   - This is the part of the show

00:03:11   where we talk about whatever Quinn Nelson did this week.

00:03:14   - Oh, this is now a regular segment.

00:03:15   Quinn Talk, I like it.

00:03:17   - The quintoc.

00:03:18   - The quintessentials.

00:03:20   - Oh, wow.

00:03:22   - Wow.

00:03:23   - I'm definitely coming up with jokes

00:03:25   that Quinn's never heard before.

00:03:27   - Yeah, no one's ever heard any of these.

00:03:29   So as promised, he repaired a iPhone 12 mini

00:03:32   and go watch the video.

00:03:34   - Great video.

00:03:34   - He did the screen and the battery.

00:03:37   And I really liked the video

00:03:38   because he not only talks about the process,

00:03:39   but he talks about the tooling

00:03:41   'cause he rented the whole, you know, whatever it is,

00:03:44   97 pounds of tooling and yeah, it's like there's a thing that heats your phone up

00:03:50   There's like a thing to roll the battery adhesive down all of these different things and he talks about

00:03:54   Yeah, some are really useful and others like you don't really need necessarily but a really in-depth look at it

00:04:01   So if you haven't watched somebody repair an iPhone before it was definitely eye-opening to me

00:04:05   about the process and

00:04:08   Really what I sort of walked away thinking is that you may be able to repair these phones now

00:04:14   but don't think that Apple designed them from the ground up

00:04:18   for easy repair.

00:04:20   - No. - Right?

00:04:21   And it may be that moving forward, some of that changes.

00:04:24   It's something I'm really looking forward to.

00:04:25   Probably not this year, but maybe the next time

00:04:28   they like really do an iPhone redesign,

00:04:30   is it easier to repair them

00:04:33   or is it always gonna be this difficult?

00:04:36   My guess is we're not gonna see massive changes there,

00:04:39   but at least with the 12 and 13,

00:04:41   which, you know, their designs predate this program

00:04:43   a long time, it was definitely not thought that this like some dude in Utah with a beard

00:04:49   was going to repair an iPhone on camera.

00:04:51   The thing I was most surprised about from this video is once Quinn has successfully

00:04:57   completed the repair, he had to call somebody at AppleCare to authenticate the repair via

00:05:05   a diagnostics program.

00:05:06   You call somebody at Spot, the company that manages it, you don't even call AppleCare.

00:05:11   - Okay, so and then they have to go through

00:05:14   this diagnostics program to actually say,

00:05:16   yes, you have a genuine display,

00:05:17   which I was very surprised about that part.

00:05:20   Seems like a real nightmare, honestly.

00:05:22   - It is, it is definitely again,

00:05:25   like not super user friendly,

00:05:28   even though it's user possible.

00:05:29   And if you're in the Apple store,

00:05:31   and you're a genius and you do 12 of these a day,

00:05:35   that system is just like how you do it, right?

00:05:37   It's in store, you're not calling somebody,

00:05:39   but they had to figure out a way to externalize

00:05:42   some of those tools and clearly some of them

00:05:44   are a bit more tedious than others.

00:05:48   - Steven, there's some blankets for you.

00:05:51   Throw boy. - Okay.

00:05:54   - I've made blankets and I just feel like they're very you,

00:05:58   these blankets, all of them.

00:06:00   - Yeah, there's one that's a big finder face.

00:06:02   - Yep. - And an iMac G31.

00:06:05   - Yep. - With some colors

00:06:06   that the iMac never came in.

00:06:08   And then I think the best one, the Nanochromatic ad with the melty iPod Nanos.

00:06:14   Yep. Are you gonna buy any of these?

00:06:16   No.

00:06:18   Really?

00:06:18   Yeah.

00:06:19   I'm genuinely surprised.

00:06:20   So I have a nerdy blanket. I have one from Susan Care that has all of her icons.

00:06:25   And like, how many nerdy blankets does one guy need?

00:06:28   I mean, loads?

00:06:31   It's not like Mary's gonna let me put a finder blanket on the bed.

00:06:34   So it's gonna be stuck out here with me.

00:06:36   Yeah, I'm expecting that they would stay in the cabin. I can't imagine these things finding their way into the home.

00:06:43   No.

00:06:43   I'm surprised.

00:06:45   Yeah.

00:06:46   Big finder face. You could like roll around in it.

00:06:48   [Laughter]

00:06:50   Who doesn't want to do that, really?

00:06:52   Mm-hmm.

00:06:54   I would like to point everybody to the current source of investigative reporting in the Apple landscape.

00:07:01   The Pen Addict podcast.

00:07:03   [Laughter]

00:07:05   Tape at Techmeme.

00:07:06   Genuinely, the answer to this is yes.

00:07:10   So you may have seen on all of the Apple blogs lighting up over the last few days

00:07:16   about Johnny Ives' 12 Tools of the Trade in the Financial Times.

00:07:22   All right, so you've probably seen this article.

00:07:25   I'm going to assume you've both seen at least something along the lines of this

00:07:28   where it's like, here's 12 things, and most people have been dunking on how expensive

00:07:32   the tape measure is, as Steven mentioned.

00:07:34   I was pretty disappointed that they just reference the pen in this article as just like

00:07:42   Monty Grappa Fountain pen from vintage Monty Grappa Fountain pen from Johnny Ives collection

00:07:48   with no information about it.

00:07:51   It's like saying headphones.

00:07:53   Like, sure.

00:07:54   Yeah, especially because they have an image of a pen in the article, which isn't Monty

00:08:00   Grappa Fountain pen, which is not a vintage pen.

00:08:03   a modern pen. So Brad contacted the CEO of Monte Grappa and got the answer about

00:08:12   which pen it that Johnny uses. How do they know? Because the CEO of Monte

00:08:18   Grappa is a personal friend of Johnny Ive. Of course he is. Which is what we have

00:08:22   found out. I recommend people go and listen to episode 513 at the pen addict

00:08:27   the conversation starts at 23 minutes so you don't have to listen to all the

00:08:31   other nonsense that you definitely don't want to hear about but it was a fascinating email

00:08:35   that we got to share from the CEO of Monte Grappa about this pen and about the relationship

00:08:42   this guy has with Johnny Ive. It was really cool and I just wanted to share it because

00:08:46   I genuinely think listeners of this show might enjoy that conversation. I cannot believe

00:08:50   the amount of information we got. The Johnny Ive pen is like $5,000 right? Yes. $4,700

00:08:56   - Yeah, okay.

00:08:58   - But you can get cheaper versions of it.

00:09:00   He just went with a very specific.

00:09:02   - I can relate, you know, you want something very specific

00:09:05   that is made in limited quantities, it costs a lot of money.

00:09:08   So I honestly thought it was more funny

00:09:12   with the $530 measuring tape.

00:09:16   Like I found that very funny because I don't know,

00:09:19   I guess a limited edition vintage pen that costs $5,000.

00:09:23   I mean, obviously it's for the super rich

00:09:25   Or maybe you're just a collector and you've been saving, that's fine.

00:09:29   But the $500 measuring tape, it just makes me chuckle.

00:09:32   I don't know what.

00:09:34   It's something so trivial, you know?

00:09:36   Like it's measuring tape.

00:09:37   Yeah, but like, I've been thinking about this.

00:09:41   I know it's funny, but he's a multimillionaire.

00:09:44   Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:09:45   Like, if I was Johnny Ive, everything I own would be over $500.

00:09:51   I wouldn't buy it.

00:09:52   If I was Johnny Ive, everything I own would be gold plated.

00:09:56   I want to be that guy.

00:09:59   We are all very particular people, right?

00:10:04   And there are things that we enjoy and we like particulars of those things and try and

00:10:08   find the best that we can for the prices that we can afford in these categories.

00:10:14   Imagine if we had Johnny Ive money and Johnny Ive levels of particularness.

00:10:19   You know what I mean?

00:10:21   The three of us would be unstoppable at that level.

00:10:24   That would be our ultimate form, I think.

00:10:27   Johnny Ive is my ultimate form, yeah.

00:10:29   Wow.

00:10:30   Like, the ultimate form that I could ever wish to aspire to be is probably Johnny Ive.

00:10:35   Johnny Ive, yeah.

00:10:37   As Chance points out in the Discord, it makes the Pro Display XDR price tag really interesting.

00:10:42   It's like, "Pin?

00:10:44   Pro Display XDR?

00:10:45   Pin?"

00:10:46   I mean, if you think about it, if you think about it, the Pro Display XDR can only display

00:10:50   things from a computer. With a pen you can draw anything you want.

00:10:54   All right, spoilers. Spoilers for the pen addict. Seriously, I'll listen to it, but

00:10:58   it's just interesting for this conversation. The pen in question is made from the tusk

00:11:04   of a mammoth. Mammoth? Like the extinct animal?

00:11:08   Yeah. Wait, what?

00:11:10   Seriously. Nah, that can't be true. It is a considered ethically sourced replacement

00:11:17   because it's full elephant tusks. Yeah it's already dead it died in the ice age so it's

00:11:23   fine to use its face for a pen. Correct. Good. Someone in the discord said poor mammoth.

00:11:30   Yeah I mean they just took it straight off the mammoth you know what I mean? It's mean really when you think about it.

00:11:36   But yeah, straight up. Maybe if he does like a special edition Apple watch it'll be mammoth.

00:11:42   I bet that's a great material.

00:11:44   So this is for real. It's from the task of a mammoth.

00:11:47   Yeah man.

00:11:48   What a power move.

00:11:49   Right.

00:11:49   That's uh, that's, I mean, that's a power move, yeah.

00:11:52   You can buy it. It's available to you.

00:11:55   Do you think I can find headphones where the body of the headphones is made of bones from a T-Rex?

00:12:03   I mean, probably. Do you want me to read to you about mammoth ivory?

00:12:08   Yes, please do.

00:12:10   Cured by nature for more than 70,000 years, ancient mammoth ivory features a rich organic

00:12:17   grain and a handle echoing epochs predating humankind.

00:12:22   Found above the arctic circle in the Siberian permafrost, this rare material is ethically

00:12:28   sourced and carries its own certificate of origin.

00:12:31   That's incredible.

00:12:33   Mammoth ivory baby.

00:12:34   See, Johnny Ive gets it.

00:12:35   Incredible.

00:12:36   Go listen to the pan addict.

00:12:37   If you don't want to spend $5,000 on a pin, but maybe you want to spend a little money

00:12:42   on a cool t-shirt, now's your last chance.

00:12:46   The 512 shirt sale ends May 12th, tomorrow, as we record this.

00:12:51   I would like to congratulate you for beating the sales numbers of the Tiny Heads team.

00:12:56   Oh, I'm glad we finally passed that milestone.

00:13:01   So congratulations to you.

00:13:04   Thank you.

00:13:05   You've currently sold like 40 more or something.

00:13:07   - Okay, awesome.

00:13:08   Yeah, I'm really excited how well it's gone.

00:13:10   So thank you if you've ordered one, if you haven't,

00:13:13   I was linking the show notes,

00:13:14   get it before it's gone forever, is what I'm saying.

00:13:16   - Whoa.

00:13:17   - That's what I'm saying.

00:13:19   - Forever, forever?

00:13:20   - Yeah, I don't like to bring shirts back.

00:13:22   I'm not digging up wooly mammoths of t-shirt ideas.

00:13:25   You know, they're fresh and clean or something.

00:13:30   - I mean, you did that for Connected.

00:13:32   We brought back a t-shirt design.

00:13:33   So what, like your designs are too good?

00:13:36   - Yeah, but the Technologies Should Be Colorful shirt

00:13:38   is the best podcast t-shirt any show has ever done.

00:13:41   - Ah, fair enough.

00:13:42   - So that one, I feel is a little bit different,

00:13:44   but I wouldn't repeat like the iMac connected shirt

00:13:48   or the tiny heads, you know.

00:13:51   - No one will repeat the tiny heads

00:13:52   'cause it's not deserved.

00:13:54   - You're so mad about it still.

00:13:56   - I'm wearing it today.

00:13:57   I'm wearing the gray one today.

00:14:00   - This episode of Connected is brought to you by Bombas.

00:14:03   Bombas mission is simple.

00:14:05   Make the most comfortable clothes ever

00:14:06   and match every item sold with an equal item donated.

00:14:10   So when you buy Bombas,

00:14:11   you are also giving to someone in need.

00:14:14   Bombas designed their socks, shirts, and underwear

00:14:17   to be the clothes you can't wait to put on every day.

00:14:19   Everything they make is soft, seamless, tagless,

00:14:22   and has a luxuriously cozy feel.

00:14:25   They're made from super soft materials,

00:14:27   which makes them the perfect cozy winter layers.

00:14:31   Or if it's like you're here and you're in Tennessee

00:14:33   and it's starting to get hot,

00:14:34   Bombas socks are great in the summer as well.

00:14:36   I wear them year round.

00:14:37   And there's a pair of socks for everything that you do.

00:14:40   There's tons of options like comfy performance styles

00:14:43   for every sport activity that keeps you moving.

00:14:46   Bombas T-shirts are made with thoughtful design features

00:14:49   like invisible seams, soft fabrics, and the perfect weight

00:14:52   so they hang just right.

00:14:54   Bombas underwear has a barely there feel

00:14:57   that might make you forget they're even there in a good way.

00:15:00   Did you know that socks, underwear, and T-shirts

00:15:02   or the three most requested clothing items

00:15:05   at homeless shelters.

00:15:06   That's why Bombas donates one for every item you buy.

00:15:09   Go to bombas.com/connected

00:15:12   and get 20% off your first purchase.

00:15:14   That's B-O-M-B-A-S, bombas.com/connected for 20% off.

00:15:19   Our thanks to Bombas for their support of the show

00:15:23   and Relay FM.

00:15:25   We got news this week of a fallen friend, the iPod Touch.

00:15:30   - A death in the family.

00:15:31   death of the family.

00:15:32   The iPod touch is officially discontinued.

00:15:35   Not that you would know it from reading

00:15:37   Apple's weirdo press release.

00:15:39   (laughing)

00:15:40   - Can I read the press release?

00:15:42   - Please.

00:15:43   - Shall I leave out the headings?

00:15:45   - Yes, yeah, just read the text.

00:15:47   - All right, I'm gonna read and see if you could guess.

00:15:49   Forget, put it out of your mind.

00:15:51   What am I talking about?

00:15:52   Since its introduction over 20 years ago,

00:15:55   iPod has captivated users all over the world

00:15:58   who love the ability to take their music

00:16:00   with them on the go.

00:16:01   Today, the experience of taking one's music library

00:16:05   out in the world, that's terribly written actually,

00:16:08   has been integrated across Apple's product line

00:16:10   from iPhone and Apple Watch to iPad and Mac,

00:16:14   along with access to more than 90 million songs

00:16:16   and over 30,000 playlists available via Apple Music.

00:16:21   Quote, "Music has always been part of our core at Apple

00:16:24   and bringing it to hundreds of millions of users

00:16:26   in the way iPod did impacted more

00:16:29   than just the music industry.

00:16:31   It also redefined how music is discovered, listened to, and shared," said Greg Jost-Zwiak,

00:16:36   Apple's Senior Vice President of Worldwide Marketing.

00:16:39   "Today, the spirit of iPod lives on.

00:16:41   We've integrated an incredible music experience across all of our products, from the iPhone

00:16:46   to the Apple Watch to HomePod mini and across Mac, iPad, and Apple TV.

00:16:50   And Apple Music delivers industry-leading sound quality with support for spatial audio.

00:16:54   There's no better way to enjoy, discover, and experience music.

00:16:58   I'm sure, Stephen, that your journalism school background doesn't like that they started a sentence with "and".

00:17:04   It's just a poorly written piece of work, like...

00:17:08   I don't know.

00:17:09   Among the incredible ways to enjoy music across a range of devices,

00:17:12   including a wide variety of models from the new iPhone SE to the latest iPhone 13 Pro Max,

00:17:18   iPhone is the best device for streaming Apple Music or storing an entire music library on the go.

00:17:23   Apple Watch and AirPods are the perfect companion,

00:17:26   allowing users to access over 90 million songs right from their wrist starting at prices.

00:17:31   iPad starts at prices, comes with a more powerful chip, larger display and the latest iPadOS features

00:17:38   and for the best way to enjoy music at home, HomePod mini is just $99.

00:17:43   And at the very very bottom, very under some images, customers can purchase

00:17:48   iPod Touch through Apple.com, Apple Store locations and Apple authorized resellers

00:17:52   as well supplies lost. So the actual announcement is three words at the very

00:17:57   end of this odd post. It's "while supplies last." It's so weird. Yeah, and it's the

00:18:05   subhead at the top that he skipped, but it is, yeah, it's super strange. I will say

00:18:11   that even this morning there was a thing on MacRumors that a bunch of iPod Touch

00:18:15   SKUs are already sold out. Most of the higher capacity ones are already gone.

00:18:20   And who knows how many of those actually were.

00:18:22   Remember the HomePod was on sale while supplies last for months.

00:18:26   Like you get either the white or the black one sold out pretty quickly and the other

00:18:30   one was around for a while.

00:18:33   But if you want one of these, you probably ought to jump on it.

00:18:36   I remember when this first came out, I mean, it was the fall of '07.

00:18:42   You know, the iPhone had been out in the US since the end of June.

00:18:46   Just very quickly, iPhone OS suddenly was on this other device that was like way thinner

00:18:52   and way lighter. It was kind of the iPhone without a phone. But for a lot of people,

00:18:57   I think including you, Myke, it was your introduction to iPhone OS because this came out ahead of

00:19:02   the iPhone in a lot of regions.

00:19:04   Yeah, I had an iPod touch way before I had an iPhone. I was so excited about it because

00:19:09   we just got it later.

00:19:10   Yeah, we didn't get the original iPhone in Italy. I mean, you could have gotten one which

00:19:15   I did a year later, but you needed to import one from the US and unlock it using the early

00:19:21   jailbreaking tools. And I did in 2008, but in the fall of 2007 I got an iPod Touch, and

00:19:28   that was my first iOS device. But I mean, it's been, let's face it, it's been, I don't

00:19:34   want to say useless, but it hasn't really mattered for years now, right? If anything,

00:19:42   They should have killed it earlier, I think.

00:19:44   I think so too.

00:19:45   I mean, for a while there, it was, like exactly what it was for the two of y'all, it was a

00:19:52   stop gap while the iPhone could get big and get sort of international and get everywhere.

00:19:58   You know, in those early days, they revised it a bunch, they added cameras, they had like

00:20:04   the third or fourth generation somewhere in there, there was like an ad campaign called

00:20:08   the funnest iPod ever where they talk they talked about like

00:20:11   onstage feel chillers like it's the most popular portable gaming

00:20:14   platform in the world. It's like, yes, but also no, not really.

00:20:19   You know, one came with a wrist strap because you know, things

00:20:24   need wrist straps, I guess. But then to your point, Federico it

00:20:28   it became less important. And it kind of entered this like

00:20:32   downward cycle of it's not really important to the market

00:20:35   because the iPhone has been around a long time, the more

00:20:38   accessible, you can pick up an old one or have one passed down to you from a

00:20:42   family member. The iPad shows up and it's pricing, you know, enters sort of the

00:20:49   iPod touch space a little bit. There's some overlap there in that pricing. And

00:20:53   so the demand shrank and then Apple didn't update it and they really let it

00:20:59   fall further and further behind. The iPod touch that's going away now has an

00:21:02   A10 Fusion chip in it, like it's an old system on a chip, and that meant that it

00:21:08   It also didn't sell very well because it was old tech.

00:21:10   It had a small screen.

00:21:12   It was kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy,

00:21:15   really over the last several years, I think,

00:21:18   that the iPod Touch was going to be going away.

00:21:21   - I mean, I guess the thing,

00:21:24   this is obviously this press release

00:21:25   is about the iPod Touch,

00:21:26   and the conversation is around the iPod Touch

00:21:28   'cause it was the last iPod to exist now.

00:21:33   But is this also the end of the iPod then?

00:21:37   - Yeah.

00:21:38   - Right?

00:21:39   Like that's the expectation,

00:21:41   there will be no more iPod products,

00:21:44   but do we think that that is it?

00:21:45   Like that they would never do a iPod product?

00:21:49   - I mean, you know me, I think they should do one,

00:21:52   but I don't think they will.

00:21:54   I think they just see Apple Music and services

00:21:56   as the thing you can now use to listen to,

00:22:00   whether you have an iPhone or a HomePod or a Mac,

00:22:03   I don't think they wanna do a music focused device,

00:22:05   they just wanna do services

00:22:07   and services run everywhere.

00:22:08   So if the point of a service is to let you subscribe

00:22:11   and run it everywhere,

00:22:12   what's the point of having a dedicated device

00:22:15   just for the service?

00:22:16   - What about the name though?

00:22:18   Could you use the name for something else?

00:22:20   - I don't know, I think it'd be too soon

00:22:22   and kind of strange, right?

00:22:26   Because like, it's one thing to say iBook

00:22:29   and then became iBooks with the iPad,

00:22:31   but iPod has such a brand recognition, right?

00:22:36   and you've been selling iPods until a few years ago.

00:22:39   So I don't know.

00:22:40   - Yeah, I think if it ever came back,

00:22:42   it would have to be music hardware, right?

00:22:45   I don't think you can name,

00:22:47   I mean, it'd be a bad name for it,

00:22:48   but I don't think you can name like the AR headset iPod.

00:22:52   Like I think to Federico's point,

00:22:55   it's so tightly tied with Apple's music business.

00:23:00   And it was been around for 20 years.

00:23:03   I mean, the first iPod was in the fall of 2001.

00:23:06   iBook didn't live that long.

00:23:09   It didn't really have that sort of cache,

00:23:11   even MacBook, which they've rebooted,

00:23:13   you know, with the, that thin one port MacBook

00:23:17   for a few years, bringing back a name for the mid 2000s.

00:23:20   Like, iPod is just like,

00:23:23   it's not on par with the iPhone in terms of branding

00:23:25   'cause the iPhone is just eons bigger,

00:23:28   but it may be the second biggest brand they've had,

00:23:31   at least in terms of like devices.

00:23:34   And I think that it, that means it's really special.

00:23:36   And if they were to use it in a way that was

00:23:41   dishonoring to that history,

00:23:43   I think people would really not like that.

00:23:46   I don't think Apple would do it.

00:23:47   I think if they ever brought it back,

00:23:48   it would be like Federico's mythical

00:23:50   high-end Apple Music player.

00:23:51   - Yes, yes, they should do that, but they won't.

00:23:54   - Yeah, they won't.

00:23:55   They should, but they won't.

00:23:55   - Cowards.

00:23:56   (laughing)

00:23:58   - It doesn't, I was gonna say it doesn't fit

00:24:00   with Apple Music, but it does, right?

00:24:02   'Cause Apple Music obviously has lossless.

00:24:04   So they could make a high-end music player,

00:24:07   but I think maybe they would make,

00:24:10   I mean, okay, so what would this do

00:24:13   that an iPhone doesn't do then?

00:24:14   - That's the point of it,

00:24:15   is that it doesn't do much of what the iPhone does.

00:24:18   - No, no, I mean this mythical iPod,

00:24:22   like this high-end music player,

00:24:24   what would it do if it were a code?

00:24:25   - Well, the thing is, if you were to do,

00:24:27   like the question is why are people buying those kinds of devices, you know, audio files,

00:24:33   why are they buying desktop DACs and that kind of stuff. I/O, right, is one of the answers

00:24:39   there, like you want to have multiple output options, whether it's different sizes of the

00:24:43   audio jack cable or you want to have optical out and you want to connect the thing to speakers

00:24:48   or to an amplifier or things like that.

00:24:51   And you got the balanced one, right? Like the Hanoi Assistant?

00:24:54   Exactly, like you could have a balanced output, you could have standard output, you could have a bunch of, you know, to make it fit into different setups.

00:25:02   But also the thing would be

00:25:04   real support for high impedance headphones and real support for not just high impedance, but really really power hungry headphones.

00:25:12   Because for example the MacBook Pro, the new MacBook Pro has an audio jack that in theory supports

00:25:19   high impedance headphones, and it does, but if you have a pair of headphones that wants a ton of power

00:25:25   to be driven at a comfortable volume level, those are still not gonna work with the MacBook Pro. Like my Hi-Fi Man Susvara,

00:25:32   they just sound too low if I try to run them from a MacBook Pro. But other, you know, mid, sort of mid, like,

00:25:38   high-end, but headphones that do not require as much power as something like the Susvara, which is a really high-end option.

00:25:46   I can drive with my MacBook Pro, but the DAC doesn't sound as good as my dedicated desktop DAC,

00:25:52   and by "sound as good", in practice, it means on this specific song, in this specific moment,

00:25:58   you can hear this instrument in a particular way. Like, that's what it comes down to.

00:26:02   So, but the question is, why would Apple care about such a niche market, right?

00:26:08   They have their own...

00:26:10   They can say they support lossless and high-res lossless.

00:26:13   They can do the bare minimum work with the MacBook Pro to have an audio jack that supports

00:26:18   Some high impedance headphones and that's fine

00:26:21   if anything I

00:26:24   Could see the iPod

00:26:26   Coming back as the name of their new home speakers, but home pod is a better name. Yeah

00:26:33   Yeah, probably I had the same thought a minute ago

00:26:37   That's kind of where I was leading and then when I sat and thought about it was like oh no

00:26:41   they actually do already have the right name and it's because the likelihood of

00:26:45   that product is something which is and the rumor is it's like an integration of

00:26:50   basically a HomePod and an Apple TV like in in one in one box like a kind of a

00:26:56   soundbar or something like that and then maybe they would put a screen on

00:27:01   something else I don't know but I think HomePod was already the right name which

00:27:06   might have been I've been thinking about this too it might have been part of the

00:27:10   reason they got rid of the big home pod it's like alright we need to we need to

00:27:13   get rid of this now so we can reuse that name again later on there is just a

00:27:18   sadness to me in losing the iPod you know like yeah man like like a lot I

00:27:25   mean I'm assuming probably similar for I'm assuming for all of us that the iPod

00:27:30   was the first and iPod was our first Apple product that we personally owned

00:27:34   It was for me, it was the same for you too.

00:27:37   I mean, yeah.

00:27:38   Yeah?

00:27:39   Yeah.

00:27:40   My history is a little tricky.

00:27:41   I mean, if you count that as like the first thing I bought

00:27:44   with my own money, then I guess yes.

00:27:48   But I had like basically full use of a power book

00:27:53   from my high school job.

00:27:55   And that, you know, I took that machine to school with me.

00:27:57   It was basically, they gave it to me.

00:27:59   But the first product of my own money that, you know,

00:28:03   went down on the table at the Apple store was for an iPod.

00:28:07   And even if it wasn't,

00:28:10   I think a lot of people are about our age.

00:28:12   It was definitely the first like really personal

00:28:15   technology product we owned.

00:28:17   Right, like I had my power book

00:28:19   and it went with me a lot of places.

00:28:20   My iPod went with me everywhere.

00:28:23   It was always in my pocket.

00:28:25   I always had those headphones wrapped around it.

00:28:27   It was my companion through so much of high school

00:28:33   and especially college, right?

00:28:35   And the and they were like universal, right?

00:28:38   Like it was a real phenomenon,

00:28:42   at least where I went to school

00:28:44   that you saw those white earbuds

00:28:47   going into everyone's jacket pocket

00:28:49   or backpack or whatever.

00:28:52   And it was a real cultural thing

00:28:53   that we all got to take a part of, you know?

00:28:55   - Mine was a pink iPod mini.

00:28:58   It was my first Apple device.

00:29:00   - Yeah, I think with my own money,

00:29:01   yeah, I think it was actually the iPod.

00:29:03   It was the fifth gen iPod classic.

00:29:05   Well, no, it wasn't with my own money though.

00:29:08   With my own money, it was actually the MacBook Pro in 2008.

00:29:13   - I don't know if it necessarily needs

00:29:14   to be of your own money.

00:29:16   Like, but that was mine with or without being my own money.

00:29:20   The iPod was my first Apple product, the iPod mini.

00:29:22   - Well then yeah, iPod classic fifth gen

00:29:25   was my first Apple product.

00:29:27   - Was that, what one was the fifth gen?

00:29:29   - The iPod video, the white iPod video.

00:29:31   - Yeah, I had a video too, man, I loved that thing.

00:29:34   That's what me and Steve are very slowly rebuilding

00:29:37   is an iPod video.

00:29:38   - Yeah, we need to get back to that.

00:29:39   - Yeah, we're gonna.

00:29:40   - The first iPod I used was a third generation

00:29:43   which had the red buttons

00:29:45   and the separate wheel underneath.

00:29:48   - I hated that one.

00:29:49   - Most people do.

00:29:53   I loved it because I think it was the first one I used

00:29:55   and that one was actually kind of a gift,

00:29:58   but I in college traded it in and got a,

00:30:03   the 5.5 gen, so that fifth gen,

00:30:06   they had a mid-cycle revision.

00:30:08   The biggest thing I know it added was

00:30:10   when you removed the headphones,

00:30:11   it would pause the music automatically.

00:30:13   So good, fantastic feature.

00:30:16   And I had one of those in black and I used that iPod.

00:30:20   I still have it, but I used it, I mean, from like 2005,

00:30:25   probably up through maybe like the iPhone,

00:30:28   like three GS or iPhone four, maybe sometime in there

00:30:32   because streaming wasn't really, really a thing.

00:30:36   And the iPod could hold so much more music than a phone.

00:30:41   I sort of had my core music on my phone,

00:30:44   but then my iPod had my entire library with me

00:30:47   and I carried both for a long time.

00:30:49   This episode of connected is brought to you by Indeed.

00:30:52   There are no winners when you play the waiting game.

00:30:56   When it comes to hiring,

00:30:57   don't wait for great talent to find you.

00:31:00   They're not just gonna wander in off the street.

00:31:02   You gotta find them first with Indeed.

00:31:04   When you're hiring, you need to be using Indeed.

00:31:07   It's the hiring platform where you can attract,

00:31:10   interview and hire all in one place.

00:31:13   Instead of spending hours on multiple job sites,

00:31:16   searching for candidates with the right skills,

00:31:19   Indeed's a powerful hiring partner

00:31:21   that can help you do it all.

00:31:23   Find great talent faster with time-saving tools

00:31:26   like Indeed Instant Match, assessments,

00:31:28   and virtual interviews.

00:31:31   With Instant Match, over 80% of employers

00:31:34   get quality candidates whose resumes on Indeed

00:31:37   match the job description the moment they sponsor a job,

00:31:40   according to Indeed data here in the US.

00:31:43   Instant Match really is incredible.

00:31:45   Candidates you invite to apply through Instant Match

00:31:48   are three times more likely to apply for your job

00:31:52   than candidates who only see it in search,

00:31:54   according to US Indeed data.

00:31:56   And as soon as you sponsor a post,

00:31:58   you'll get that short list of quality candidates

00:32:00   and you can invite them to apply right away.

00:32:03   Even better, Indeed's the only job site

00:32:06   where you pay for applications

00:32:07   that meet your must-have requirements.

00:32:09   Indeed is an unbelievably powerful hiring partner,

00:32:12   delivering four times more hires

00:32:15   than all other job sites combined,

00:32:17   according to Talent Nest in 2019.

00:32:20   Join more than 3 million businesses worldwide

00:32:22   that use Indeed to hire great talent fast.

00:32:25   So start hiring right now with a free $75 sponsored job

00:32:29   credit to upgrade your job post at indeed.com/connected.

00:32:34   Offer is good for a limited time.

00:32:36   Claim your $75 credit now at indeed.com/connected.

00:32:41   That's I-N-D-E-E-D.com/connected.

00:32:45   Terms and conditions apply.

00:32:47   Pay per qualified applicant is not available for all users.

00:32:51   Need to hire? You need Indeed.

00:32:53   Our thanks to Indeed for the support of the show

00:32:56   and Relay FM.

00:32:57   - All right, so we have a whole show planned out,

00:32:59   but I have an idea.

00:33:00   I want to see if you two are interested.

00:33:02   Shall we do an iPod tier list?

00:33:05   - Oh, wow.

00:33:06   Yes. - Yep.

00:33:07   - Yes.

00:33:08   - I've never done a tier list before.

00:33:10   Okay, so Jason in the chat

00:33:13   has sent a tier list template from TierMaker.

00:33:16   I think this has every,

00:33:18   it has a lot of the major iPods,

00:33:20   no iPod touches in here so maybe we want to add those in ourselves. Yeah. Is that

00:33:26   rather than I don't want to do every iPod and I also don't want to do just

00:33:31   the like the iPod categories because like Nanos are very different for

00:33:37   example. Yeah I feel like this is a good representation of the lineup and I'd say

00:33:42   that we could just mainly call some iPod touches at the end if we want to. Okay

00:33:48   Okay, all right, so how are we gonna do this?

00:33:52   I've shared my screen with y'all.

00:33:54   Okay.

00:33:55   So you'll be able to see it, and I will put a screenshot

00:33:57   of our completed tier list in the show notes.

00:34:00   I guess don't click it if you don't want spoilers.

00:34:02   What's first up then?

00:34:04   We're gonna talk this through very clearly

00:34:05   so you'll understand what we're talking about.

00:34:07   What is the first one that we're gonna rank?

00:34:08   And can you, from a, like, we rank them, S is top, right?

00:34:12   A, B, C, and then we've got U in here, which is weird.

00:34:15   Ew, David!

00:34:17   Yeah, that's the last one.

00:34:18   - That's good, that's good, that's good.

00:34:19   Should we change that to D?

00:34:20   (laughing)

00:34:22   - That's the main thing.

00:34:22   - To D tier?

00:34:24   Oh, you wanna change, keep U tier?

00:34:25   All right, fair enough. - U tier is good.

00:34:27   - All right.

00:34:28   - Although the, okay, so the first iPod up

00:34:30   is the first iPod, so this came out--

00:34:32   - Original iPod.

00:34:33   - The original iPod in 2001, five gigabytes,

00:34:37   thousand songs in your pocket.

00:34:39   This iPod has a FireWire 400 port on the top,

00:34:42   and the wheel in the middle actually physically spun.

00:34:47   The second generation made it like a touch sensitive surface, but this one actually physically

00:34:52   spins like a DJ turntable.

00:34:55   What do y'all think?

00:34:56   This is complex.

00:34:57   This might be the hardest one.

00:34:59   On the one hand, you would give it like honorary S tier, but also it kind of sucks by modern

00:35:07   standards.

00:35:08   It's functional D tier.

00:35:09   Right?

00:35:10   Yeah.

00:35:11   Right?

00:35:12   So like, this is hard.

00:35:13   This is really hard.

00:35:14   I mean firewire and 5GB and the click wheel like physically spins.

00:35:19   Ahhh.

00:35:20   Yeah.

00:35:21   Yep.

00:35:22   And it's a monochrome display.

00:35:24   Did it even have a backlight?

00:35:26   It did, yes.

00:35:27   Okay.

00:35:28   But it's the original iPod so I really don't think you can go lower than A tier.

00:35:33   You know?

00:35:34   I agree.

00:35:35   Alright, okay.

00:35:36   Just for argument's sake I probably would have said C.

00:35:40   C?

00:35:41   We're gonna do this on majority voting.

00:35:43   Okay.

00:35:44   The reason is, like, I'm thinking about this like, okay, this is complicated.

00:35:49   Because it's like, I could think, what is the iPod I would want to use?

00:35:51   And this is the one I would probably least want to use.

00:35:54   Maybe with one exception that we'll get to later on.

00:35:56   But I think the emotion of it, though, pulls it higher.

00:36:00   I agree with Federico.

00:36:01   I think it's mostly this one in particular is an emotional A tier for me.

00:36:06   I will agree with you two of you.

00:36:08   Not that it matters, but I will agree with you both.

00:36:11   Up next, we have the third generation iPod.

00:36:13   was my first iPod. It's the first one with the dock connector. So no like janky

00:36:18   firewire port on the top of it. It has a touch sensitive wheel, but this is before

00:36:23   they put the controls on the wheel. So it has back, forward, play/pause, and menu as

00:36:30   touch sensitive buttons. This all recessed into the plastic and the buttons

00:36:35   lit up red and the screen had like a nice kind of light blue backlight. It

00:36:40   It came in several configurations over the years.

00:36:43   I want to say mine was a 30 gig maybe,

00:36:46   but they had smaller and larger capacities.

00:36:48   - I think this is a C tier at best.

00:36:51   - It's either high, low B tier or C tier.

00:36:55   Yeah, I don't disagree.

00:36:56   Let me see, iPod third gen.

00:37:00   - This has some good stuff like the touch sensitive wheel

00:37:04   and the touch sensitive buttons,

00:37:06   But every other classic iPod that will come next

00:37:11   has to be better than this one in my opinion.

00:37:14   And I don't know how many we can really shove into S or A.

00:37:18   - Okay. - Like.

00:37:19   - So let's go C.

00:37:20   - That works for me as a C too.

00:37:23   'Cause it's not a bad iPod, right?

00:37:25   But it's like--

00:37:26   - It's not you iPod. - Functionally.

00:37:28   - But. - Yeah.

00:37:29   I don't think this one can get that emotion part

00:37:32   that the A got for everyone, you know?

00:37:35   Up next we have the iPod photo.

00:37:38   This came out in the fall of 2004.

00:37:41   It was the first iPod with a color screen.

00:37:44   This was a separate iPod above the iPod fourth generation

00:37:49   in the line.

00:37:52   So you could get the regular iPod or you spent more

00:37:55   like my college roommate did.

00:37:56   He had an iPod photo.

00:37:58   I think his was 60 gigs.

00:37:59   It was a thick, chunky iPod,

00:38:02   but you could sync your photos to it.

00:38:04   And it was so cool to me that he had not only his entire music library, but his entire iPhoto library with him.

00:38:12   Eventually, later in '05, they would merge these things back together and sort of separate standalone iPod photo went away.

00:38:22   But it stood alone for a little while as a high-end option.

00:38:25   Strong B-tier.

00:38:27   This is A-tier for me.

00:38:28   Ooh, A-tier!

00:38:29   I mean, it's the type of photo.

00:38:31   You know what?

00:38:32   Actually, I could see A.

00:38:33   - Yeah, 'cause I'm thinking ahead.

00:38:34   I would be happy with like a low A tier.

00:38:38   - Okay. - Because of what's coming

00:38:39   out later, you know. - Because as well,

00:38:40   this is like the best of these iPods

00:38:43   because it got a color screen.

00:38:45   - Yeah. - All of the buttons

00:38:46   are integrated into the click wheel, right?

00:38:48   Like it's all there, you know?

00:38:50   - Yeah, and the fourth generation iPod is not on this list.

00:38:53   Like the plain fourth generation iPod,

00:38:55   that's at least maybe it was just like the year

00:38:58   I was in college, it's the one that took off.

00:39:00   like there were so many fourth gen iPods running around

00:39:04   and this was like a better, cooler version of it.

00:39:06   So yeah, A tier works for me.

00:39:08   All right, up next we have Federico's beloved iPod,

00:39:11   fifth generation.

00:39:13   So same basic design, but a little bit larger screen,

00:39:17   a higher resolution, higher contrast screen,

00:39:21   and you could sync TV shows, movies, that sort of thing

00:39:25   from iTunes over to it and watch, you know,

00:39:27   The Office on a tiny little iPod

00:39:29   white, you were supposed to be listening in class.

00:39:33   - This is S tier for me.

00:39:35   - And also had the flat, the top of it's flat,

00:39:38   which I like too. - Yes, yes.

00:39:40   - It's not rounded.

00:39:41   And this is an easy S tier.

00:39:43   - Yeah. - S tier.

00:39:44   - It was also the first full-size iPod to come in black,

00:39:46   which is really cool.

00:39:47   I agree, this is the peak of the full-size iPods.

00:39:52   - This is the best big iPod.

00:39:54   - Yep. - Yeah.

00:39:55   - Sorry, iPod Classic, which is next.

00:39:57   - Yeah, yeah.

00:39:58   (laughing)

00:39:59   So the iPod classic comes out in 2007.

00:40:03   It is revised a couple of times

00:40:06   and eventually pulled from sale seven years later in 2014.

00:40:10   It came with a metal front.

00:40:13   So up until this point,

00:40:14   all the full size iPods had white plastic fronts

00:40:16   of various, you know, tweaked designs.

00:40:19   This is anodized aluminum, silver and black.

00:40:22   They looked really cool.

00:40:23   They were also much thinner

00:40:24   'cause the hard drives had come a long way.

00:40:25   You could get like 160 gigs, I think,

00:40:28   was the biggest classic they sold.

00:40:30   But at this point, you know,

00:40:33   we're getting pretty close to,

00:40:37   well, September '07 when it came out,

00:40:38   we are in the iPhone era.

00:40:40   And this is sort of the last hurrah.

00:40:42   It also lasted too long like the iPod Touch did.

00:40:45   For me, I think this is B-tier.

00:40:47   Like it's pretty good and the capacity goes a long way,

00:40:51   but it didn't really add anything to the lineup.

00:40:53   - I would say it's a charitable B-tier,

00:40:56   but I would be happy with B-tier.

00:40:58   - Yeah.

00:40:59   - What I don't like about this iPod

00:41:01   is the fact that they ditched the plastic on the front.

00:41:04   They should not have done that in my opinion.

00:41:06   Like making it aluminum on the front,

00:41:09   I think was a bad move.

00:41:09   - Yeah, I mean, this is about the time,

00:41:11   like in '08, the iMac went aluminum.

00:41:14   Like they were kind of moving away.

00:41:16   So I get why they did it, but it did lose some charm,

00:41:19   I think, when they went to the aluminum.

00:41:20   - Yes.

00:41:21   - All right, up next, we have the iPod Mini.

00:41:25   The first one came out in January of for the second generation came out a year later.

00:41:30   This is the first time we got an additional iPod, right?

00:41:34   It had just been the iPod itself.

00:41:35   Now we have the mini, a little bit smaller, actually a lot smaller physically, but still

00:41:41   had a hard drive.

00:41:43   And it was the first iPod that was sort of a fashion accessory because it came in.

00:41:49   Initially it came in green blue pink gold and

00:41:54   Did I say green?

00:41:57   There are five colors. I think the golden end up going away, but you get it in color

00:42:02   I call that's the gold was a bad color. It didn't look good extremely popular for its smaller size

00:42:07   It's it's fashion stuff and Myke you mentioned earlier. This was your first iPod. So where would you put this?

00:42:13   Oh, come on S tier S tier. Yes, iPod mini S tier. Yes, I think a

00:42:20   what just because

00:42:24   Because the nano did its job way better two years later

00:42:29   So it can be more than one iPod in the S tier. I vote a

00:42:34   What do you think Federico iPod I don't really remember the iPod mini see now

00:42:42   we've got like an unreliable narrator making the decision. Okay you know what

00:42:47   I'll let you have the S-tier if Federico is good with it. I'm good with it I just

00:42:52   think it's a very generous S-tier. It is that's an emotional S-tier. I would say

00:42:57   it's bottom of S-tier. This is bottom of S-tier for sure. But like I think my

00:43:03   argument for the iPod mini is I think it was the first iPod that like it really

00:43:09   broke through for a lot of people because it was cheaper and it was

00:43:13   colorful. I think it walked so the Nano could run, like I think in a

00:43:21   lot of ways and this being one of them. So just as a reminder, this will be in the show notes for you, but we are currently

00:43:28   participating in a Zoom screen share. So Stephen, can you please pause that

00:43:33   that auto playing ad, 'cause it's driving me mad.

00:43:36   - Yeah, done, sorry. - Thank you so much.

00:43:38   It's like some Raid Shadow Legends ad

00:43:41   just playing on a loop,

00:43:43   I've been looking at it for the last 10 minutes.

00:43:44   - Yeah, sorry.

00:43:45   You know, the other thing about the iPod Mini,

00:43:48   it's where the click wheel was introduced.

00:43:50   Before this, they had not combined the wheel

00:43:53   and the controls, and if you remember the click wheel,

00:43:55   it like indented, so like if you hit forward,

00:43:58   the whole wheel kind of rocked to the right,

00:44:01   And that would show up on the big iPod six months later,

00:44:04   but it was introduced here.

00:44:06   And so that is obviously a huge thing in its favor.

00:44:10   Up next, we have the first iPod Nano.

00:44:15   This was in the fall of 2005.

00:44:20   Apple very famously, Steve Jobs,

00:44:22   like the iPod Mini is the most popular iPod,

00:44:25   it's the most popular music player on the planet.

00:44:27   We're canceling it and doing this iPod Nano

00:44:31   two gigabyte and four gigabyte in size.

00:44:34   But the big story here is right,

00:44:36   that it was using flash storage.

00:44:38   And Apple actually bought up like most of the flash storage

00:44:42   on the planet about this time to build these things.

00:44:45   Absolutely tiny.

00:44:46   It came out of his little like coin pocket on his jeans,

00:44:49   came in white and black.

00:44:51   So a little less colorful than the mini,

00:44:54   but a really big step forward in terms of

00:44:57   just the future of the industry, right?

00:44:59   Moving these things.

00:45:00   I mean, the rest of the iPods in this lineup

00:45:03   we're gonna talk about, there's no spinning hard drives.

00:45:05   And that all started here.

00:45:08   - Who's gonna throw the first?

00:45:10   - I'm gonna say S tier.

00:45:12   Or I could see an A tier too though.

00:45:15   - So a couple of things that ding the first Nano,

00:45:19   there was a battery recall that lasted years

00:45:24   and the front and back were both really susceptible

00:45:28   to scratching.

00:45:30   And if you had the black one in particular,

00:45:32   it would look like hot garbage after a couple of years.

00:45:34   So I think I go A tier just because the quality

00:45:38   maybe wasn't as good as it could have been.

00:45:40   - I would have said S tier for this.

00:45:42   The Nano is obviously really important.

00:45:44   It's my favorite Nano.

00:45:46   - Hmm, interesting.

00:45:47   - I think in design,

00:45:49   like I think this might be like in looking back

00:45:52   on the designs, I think it was my favorite.

00:45:55   I think like I just, I love the nostalgia

00:45:57   of the white and black plastic, right?

00:45:59   as I've already mentioned.

00:46:00   I don't remember necessarily how I feel about them

00:46:03   like at the time.

00:46:04   I know the scratching thing, but again,

00:46:06   like when I look back at it,

00:46:07   I kind of love that it did that.

00:46:09   And it was the absolute shock at the thinness

00:46:13   of that device.

00:46:14   But I would be very happy with a high A tier for this,

00:46:17   but I would have put it in S tier,

00:46:19   but A tier works for me too.

00:46:21   - Yeah, I think A tier is right.

00:46:22   - And I'll say like, for those reasons you mentioned Stephen

00:46:25   that like it was an imperfect product at the time.

00:46:28   that I'm sure will cause frustration.

00:46:31   - Up next we have the second generation.

00:46:33   iPod Nano came out a year later.

00:46:36   Same basic design, but now anodized aluminum,

00:46:39   came in a whole bunch of colors.

00:46:41   I mean, this color list, silver, green, blue, pink,

00:46:46   product red and black.

00:46:48   I really liked this Nano for a totally sentimental reason.

00:46:53   So when I,

00:46:56   Yeah, so I was at the Apple store when these were on sale

00:47:01   for like the holiday season, like Christmas of six.

00:47:03   So I sold a bunch of them, but I bought one for Mary,

00:47:07   a green one as like my first like nice gift to her.

00:47:11   And she used it for years.

00:47:14   And so I've always liked the second generation Nano

00:47:18   'cause it preserves like all the good stuff

00:47:19   about the design from the first one, but it adds colors.

00:47:22   And I think it, you know,

00:47:24   it holds a special place in my heart.

00:47:26   So I kind of want to go like maybe A or B tier.

00:47:30   It didn't really add much to the Nano experience

00:47:33   in terms of technology, but it made it more fun, I think.

00:47:36   So what do y'all think?

00:47:38   - A tier works for me for this as well,

00:47:40   just because it's so similar to the first gen,

00:47:43   but it adds color and the new finish.

00:47:46   I'll be fine with A tier for this.

00:47:48   - Okay.

00:47:49   Up next, we have the iPod Nano third generation.

00:47:52   we're now in 2007, this had a two inch diagonal LCD.

00:47:57   So to accommodate this, sometimes you hear this iPod

00:48:00   like called like the squashed iPod Nano

00:48:04   or like the squatty one.

00:48:06   It looks like a little iPod classic,

00:48:10   like the proportion is not tall and skinny,

00:48:12   it's kind of short and stout.

00:48:14   The colors are a little bit more muted in this generation,

00:48:16   there's a bit fewer options, but it played video.

00:48:20   So if you want to watch Pirates of the Caribbean

00:48:22   at two inches across on your iPod Nano, you could.

00:48:26   I don't like this Nano.

00:48:28   I don't like this iPod Nano.

00:48:30   It's so ugly.

00:48:31   It's so ugly.

00:48:32   I'm sorry.

00:48:33   I know that there are people that are gonna be so mad

00:48:37   about this, but this is.

00:48:39   It's the worst iPod.

00:48:40   It's the second worst iPod Nano.

00:48:42   It's not the worst.

00:48:44   It's not the worst.

00:48:45   So for that reason, I would say C tier.

00:48:47   - Yeah, I think because there are,

00:48:50   I think multiple worse nanos.

00:48:53   - Okay. - Yes.

00:48:54   - This has to be C-tier,

00:48:56   'cause otherwise there's gonna be like a graveyard

00:48:58   of iPod Nanos at the bottom here.

00:49:00   - Got it, C-tier. - Yep.

00:49:02   - Man, what were they thinking?

00:49:03   Such a weird--

00:49:04   - Does this one at least preserve some goodness?

00:49:06   - Yeah. (laughs)

00:49:09   - Well, because there's some stuff incoming

00:49:12   with the next ones, so I just wanna make sure that we--

00:49:15   - Buckle up. - Yep.

00:49:17   But it is kind of shown out and like Apple went

00:49:20   in this direction and then immediately went back

00:49:23   with the next one, right?

00:49:24   Like they're like, whoops, sorry.

00:49:26   - And these Nanos are all like back to back year to year

00:49:29   for a while.

00:49:30   So like, you know, they knew immediately

00:49:32   this one wasn't as successful.

00:49:34   Up next, we have the fourth generation iPod Nano

00:49:38   came out in September of '08.

00:49:41   This is the Nanochromatic ad.

00:49:42   So silver, purple, blue, green, yellow, orange, pink,

00:49:47   product red and black.

00:49:52   Loads of colors, very vibrant colors.

00:49:55   And the screen is taller.

00:49:58   It's still two inches, but it's like tall and skinny

00:50:02   as opposed to the other way around

00:50:04   on the previous generation.

00:50:06   This is like a return to form, but even better.

00:50:09   I give, I would put this one as B tier.

00:50:12   I think it's like not as special as the early ones,

00:50:15   but it's way better than the previous one.

00:50:17   - Well, you see, now we've entered a problem.

00:50:19   I think we have to have a Nano in S tier.

00:50:22   - Oh yeah, we will.

00:50:23   - Ooh, if I was to give an S tier, it would be this one.

00:50:26   - No, ooh, wait.

00:50:27   - Because the other one, this is like, to me,

00:50:30   it's the best Nano.

00:50:31   This is my favorite Nano.

00:50:32   - Okay, Federico, make your case now.

00:50:35   - We're gonna have really different feelings

00:50:37   about an upcoming Nano than,

00:50:40   Ooh, that's gonna be a problem, I bet.

00:50:42   This is B tier for me. There's nothing special about it.

00:50:45   And it's also like, yeah, it's small, multiple colors.

00:50:48   Like, it would be a very generous A tier for me,

00:50:51   but honestly, I could see it in B tier.

00:50:53   Okay.

00:50:53   Well, I'm struggling, because for me,

00:50:56   the only S tier Nano is the original.

00:50:59   Yeah, which we gave an A to.

00:51:01   What?

00:51:01   Yeah, because I think I went out of Nano season.

00:51:05   Federico, I think we need--

00:51:06   What do you think is an S tier I put Nano?

00:51:09   the watch like one. No, that's you're in. You guys that nano was incredible. I had multiple

00:51:17   friends who wore one. We'll get to that. I just needed to calibrate. I needed to understand

00:51:25   where we were leading towards. Could we kind of come in the middle and give this one an

00:51:30   A and give put it next to the other two nanos that are already in A tier? Yeah. Okay. The

00:51:35   The fifth gen again, just a year later, we're now in September of 2009.

00:51:41   Same form factor.

00:51:43   The screens a little bit taller.

00:51:45   These are super glossy though.

00:51:47   So a similar color range.

00:51:49   I think they got rid of the yellow maybe I'm trying to scan this list.

00:51:52   Is this the one with the camera?

00:51:54   Yes.

00:51:55   So super glossy finish.

00:51:57   And it has a it has a camera in the back that Apple was like flip cams, we're gonna put

00:52:04   him out of business.

00:52:05   And so this shot, let me just read these specs to you.

00:52:08   30 frames a second, 640 by 480 H.264 video.

00:52:13   - See to.

00:52:15   - I agree.

00:52:16   Weird idea.

00:52:18   And I don't like the finish.

00:52:19   The finish is too shiny for me.

00:52:20   Guys, so now we've got to talk about this thing.

00:52:22   (laughing)

00:52:23   - Yes, this was an incredible device.

00:52:25   - In the fall of 2010, they introduced,

00:52:29   so the iPod in has slowed down a little bit now,

00:52:31   you know, a little more time.

00:52:33   They released the sixth generation iPod nano,

00:52:36   no click wheel.

00:52:37   This looks like a shuffle.

00:52:38   It's basically square.

00:52:40   In fact, it has a perfectly,

00:52:44   I think the screen is perfectly square, 240 by 240 pixels.

00:52:48   It does not run iPhone OS, but it looks like it does.

00:52:52   The physical controls are still there,

00:52:54   so you can still have your,

00:52:58   you still have buttons to control the volume

00:53:01   and sleep wake and stuff,

00:53:03   but all the mechanics were touchscreen.

00:53:07   I'm just gonna say it, I hate this iPod.

00:53:11   What?

00:53:12   It is weird, it was not easy to use on the go.

00:53:15   Like people ran with these.

00:53:18   Why would you take the buttons off of it, Apple?

00:53:20   This is S tier.

00:53:22   It's incredible. Oh my God.

00:53:23   Oh my God, Federico, I'm so sorry, man.

00:53:26   Oh my God.

00:53:27   I'm so sorry, my friend.

00:53:28   You guys hate fun.

00:53:30   That's why you don't like this iPod.

00:53:33   Yeah.

00:53:33   Oh my God.

00:53:34   Yeah, Steven, there's no need to open your own video about that.

00:53:37   Look at that thing.

00:53:38   Look how beautiful it is.

00:53:39   Federico, I'm so sorry.

00:53:41   This is unprecedented.

00:53:42   This is unacceptable.

00:53:43   This is D tier for me.

00:53:46   This is this is a bad.

00:53:49   OK.

00:53:49   All right.

00:53:50   You know what?

00:53:51   I didn't own this product.

00:53:52   OK, so I can't speak to its usability.

00:53:58   I did.

00:53:59   I tried making a watch out of it, which was bad.

00:54:02   I can't.

00:54:04   It was beautiful.

00:54:04   It was so pocketable,

00:54:06   and you could clip it to your jeans or something,

00:54:08   and you could listen to music, and it fit in any pocket.

00:54:11   And it almost looked like an iPhone,

00:54:13   but it wasn't really an iPhone,

00:54:15   but it had a touchscreen, and it was colorful,

00:54:17   and there were a bunch of weird, wild accessories for it.

00:54:21   I honestly don't know how you guys can dislike it.

00:54:24   Or, to quote Steven, hate it.

00:54:28   Wow. I have no feelings about this product. How is that possible? I mean, just look at it.

00:54:34   I never owned one. I would say C tier. I could go C tier. Yeah, C tier. Sorry Federica. He's

00:54:40   devastated. There's always hurt feelings in a tier list, a group tier list. There is. You know?

00:54:46   I'm still sad that the Nano is A. I think the original Nano should be S. And my beloved third

00:54:52   is a C so we all have hurt feelings.

00:54:55   - Yes.

00:54:56   - In 2012, Apple introduced what would be

00:54:58   the final iPod Nano.

00:55:01   This, it kind of combines the previous two.

00:55:04   It's tall and skinny again,

00:55:06   but it has a 2.5 inch 240 by 432 pixel display.

00:55:11   The home, as a home button,

00:55:16   the home button has a round glyph on it

00:55:18   and all the app icons are round.

00:55:20   So as not to confuse you thinking that this is a tiny iPhone,

00:55:23   came in a bunch of colors.

00:55:25   I think the colors changed a little bit over time

00:55:27   'cause they sort of had like a mid-cycle refresh on this.

00:55:30   Only came in 16 gigabytes and it had Bluetooth.

00:55:34   So you could like hook it up to your car

00:55:38   or have a Bluetooth headphones or something.

00:55:40   I think it's the only Nano I think with Bluetooth on board.

00:55:43   Kind of a weird one.

00:55:45   You know, it takes a lot of the ideas of the previous one,

00:55:47   I think makes them better.

00:55:48   It also has giant volume buttons on the side

00:55:51   'cause I think they even said in the keynote,

00:55:53   like I haven't watched this one in a long time,

00:55:54   but like, yeah, like if you run with it,

00:55:56   you just wanna like hit the volume really quickly.

00:55:58   And so they kind of walked back a little bit

00:56:00   of the sixth gen with this,

00:56:02   but definitely a weird one and the last one, you know,

00:56:06   this was taken down for sale in 2017.

00:56:09   This was the end of the Nano line.

00:56:11   We don't have a D tier.

00:56:12   - There is no D tier.

00:56:13   - Well, whatever that last tier is.

00:56:14   - You mean U?

00:56:15   - I don't wanna say that.

00:56:17   I don't want to say silly. I just want to call it D tier.

00:56:19   I'm trying to see you. I could live with that. It's, it's definitely a very,

00:56:24   it's a, it's,

00:56:25   I don't think anyone loves this the way Federico loves the sixth generation.

00:56:29   This iPod makes nobody happy, right? Exactly. People that want buttons.

00:56:34   It doesn't have enough of them. People that just want screen.

00:56:36   There's not enough of that because they put buttons back on. Yeah.

00:56:39   It's not clippable, right? It's not like ultra portable, but it's got,

00:56:42   it's got Bluetooth. Oh, well. I mean, by that point,

00:56:46   anyone that wanted to play their iPod in their car

00:56:49   had worked out another system.

00:56:50   - Yeah, yeah, all right, so bottom of the list?

00:56:53   - Yeah, I mean, I don't even remember this one.

00:56:57   - Exactly.

00:56:58   (laughing)

00:56:59   - Honestly, yeah.

00:57:01   - We're now gonna go back up to many years previously,

00:57:05   go back to January of '05 with the first iPod Shuffle.

00:57:09   If you've never seen this,

00:57:11   picture a USB stick and put a tiny click wheel on it.

00:57:15   - Pack of gum, that's what it used to call it, right?

00:57:16   - Yeah, do not chew iPod shuffle

00:57:18   was a warning on the website.

00:57:20   Steve Jobs was very excited about this.

00:57:23   They built the whole product

00:57:24   around the day of shuffling your music

00:57:25   even though you could just play a playlist

00:57:27   straight through no screen, wild battery life.

00:57:30   The end of it was literally a USB-A port

00:57:33   so you could just plug it straight in.

00:57:35   It came with a lanyard so you could wear it

00:57:37   around your neck if you wanted to.

00:57:39   I think if you look at the history of the shuffle,

00:57:41   clearly this idea wasn't it, right?

00:57:44   because all the other ones were much smaller and had clips.

00:57:46   - Get out of town, man.

00:57:48   - No, this is us here.

00:57:49   - Yes. - Come on.

00:57:50   - Federico, oh my God.

00:57:51   I thought the best I was gonna get

00:57:54   was an A tier out of this.

00:57:55   Oh, I love you.

00:57:56   - This is by far the best design for this thing.

00:57:59   - Yes, it was incredibly light.

00:58:02   You could buy a lanyard with it.

00:58:03   - Yeah.

00:58:04   - And you know what was even better,

00:58:05   especially it was perfect for me at the time?

00:58:07   You could also use this as a USB stick.

00:58:10   You could put your coursework on it at school.

00:58:13   Yeah. All right. Oh, I love this thing. I have my original, but it doesn't work.

00:58:17   And it and I'm so sad about that. I was going to go B, but you two are very excited about this.

00:58:23   So this is the best idea that they made for the shuffle, I think. And then it just got worse.

00:58:29   It just got worse, much worse later on. There's definitely a worse one coming up.

00:58:33   Yeah. Yeah. In fact, when we get to that, I have a proposal to make, but let's

00:58:41   Wait a second here.

00:58:42   Yeah.

00:58:43   And it's September of six, the second generation shuffle came out, uh,

00:58:48   $79, which is cool, pretty cheap clippable.

00:58:51   It's not square.

00:58:53   It's kind of rectangle and the controls are offset on it.

00:58:56   And like the previous one, it had kind of two button, two ranges of buttons.

00:59:00   So you could shuffle or play all the way through and, uh, came in silver,

00:59:04   blue, pink, green, and orange.

00:59:06   Uh, had a little dock because it synced through the headphone jack.

00:59:11   They put like an extra ring in there for something to like move data across.

00:59:14   It was pretty wild.

00:59:15   I really like this shuffle.

00:59:17   I had one for a long time.

00:59:19   I think out of the remaining shuffles, it's a, it's pretty awesome.

00:59:23   I want to give it an a, but what do y'all think?

00:59:26   H uh, B or A for me.

00:59:29   I want to tell you where I am.

00:59:31   Okay.

00:59:32   Which is C tier.

00:59:34   What?

00:59:34   Wait, because there is a later one, which is clearly better than this.

00:59:40   Yeah.

00:59:40   - I disagree.

00:59:42   I think this is peak shuffle.

00:59:46   - No, no.

00:59:47   - No, we already established that that was the original one.

00:59:49   - I think we gotta do B tier

00:59:51   and then we can give A tier to the--

00:59:53   - Okay.

00:59:54   - I could live with that too.

00:59:55   The reason is like this is a cool design, right?

00:59:57   But like they ultimately landed on the perfect design

01:00:01   for this thing.

01:00:03   - They have the perfect one coming up.

01:00:05   - Up next, we have the third generation iPod shuffle.

01:00:10   Let me pitch you all an idea.

01:00:12   What if you took the iPod shuffle?

01:00:14   Oh, and we just say too,

01:00:15   there were like several different revisions

01:00:16   of the second gen.

01:00:17   It came in like 15 colors by the end.

01:00:19   My dream is to collect all of them at some point.

01:00:20   I think it'd be fun.

01:00:21   Anyways, let's take the iPod shuffle

01:00:24   that's been for sale for a couple of years.

01:00:26   Let's keep the clip.

01:00:28   Get rid of all physical controls.

01:00:30   You're gonna talk to it

01:00:32   and you're gonna use little buttons on your headset

01:00:34   so it's incompatible with your other headphones.

01:00:37   What do you think?

01:00:38   - Easy U-tier, one of the worst Apple products

01:00:42   Apple has ever made.

01:00:43   - Amen.

01:00:44   - And they even made a stainless steel one.

01:00:46   - They did.

01:00:47   - Which was really expensive.

01:00:49   - Because of this, are we sure we wanna give

01:00:53   that final iPod Nano the U-tier?

01:00:57   Like it, because this is so much worse, right?

01:01:00   - I love this, I love this late game pitch here.

01:01:03   This is good.

01:01:04   I mean, is that iPod Nano as bad as this iPod Shuffle?

01:01:08   And I also kind of like the message you were sending

01:01:11   that there's a single one really bad bottom tier device

01:01:15   and this is it.

01:01:16   It's that iPod Shuffle.

01:01:18   - I will say, I do not think that that Nano

01:01:23   is as bad as this.

01:01:26   - Exactly. - Right?

01:01:27   Because this iPod was barely usable,

01:01:32   where the other iPod is just ugly.

01:01:35   And I would say...

01:01:37   - I think we could move that last Nano to C tier.

01:01:40   - Yeah.

01:01:41   - Yes, yes.

01:01:42   - Okay.

01:01:43   And the buttonless shuffle lives alone in hell at the bottom.

01:01:47   - The tier of shame just for the third generation

01:01:50   iPod shuffle.

01:01:51   Yes.

01:01:52   I mean, what were they thinking?

01:01:53   - It's weird, man.

01:01:55   It's super weird.

01:01:56   - This is like when the Apple Pencil would charge

01:01:58   by putting it into the iPad.

01:01:59   Like, why?

01:02:00   I will not accept that argument.

01:02:02   No, that was silly.

01:02:03   They did the best they could

01:02:04   with what was available to them at the time.

01:02:05   Just like charging the Magic Mouse, right?

01:02:08   Same deal.

01:02:09   The Magic Mouse charging is stupid.

01:02:11   Yeah, that's U-tier charging.

01:02:13   That's, yeah, but like, I would say that the Apple Pencil

01:02:18   is C-tier when it comes to charging.

01:02:20   Anyway.

01:02:23   The last one is the iPod Shuffle fourth generation.

01:02:26   Steve Jobs said, "Hey, turns out people like the buttons."

01:02:29   And so it's like the second gen, but it's square.

01:02:32   They were able to like shave down the sides a little bit,

01:02:36   came in a bunch of colors over the years

01:02:38   and was $49 for two gigabytes.

01:02:43   So really cheap at this point.

01:02:45   And this stayed on sale through various colors

01:02:48   for seven years from September, 2010,

01:02:52   all the way through the summer of '17.

01:02:55   - Eight year. - Eight year, yeah.

01:02:57   - Okay.

01:02:58   final form of the iPod shuffle. Yeah. So. Yeah, I guess I can see what y'all are saying.

01:03:04   You could still sell this today. You could still sell this iPod today, I think. Yeah.

01:03:07   I wish they would. Yeah. Didn't you see like a while back the TikTok of that girl who found

01:03:13   an iPod shuffle in their parents' drawer and she thought it was like a hair accessory or

01:03:19   something? I think that that's the other one though. The other one? I think it was the

01:03:22   second gen, yeah. Oh, the second gen, okay. Because it was more like a clip, right? I

01:03:26   - I kind of get the vibe,

01:03:29   and I see it now that y'all say it, right?

01:03:31   Like the second gen, they wanted to build the fourth gen.

01:03:34   They wanted it to be square,

01:03:35   but they couldn't quite shrink it down enough.

01:03:37   And so it's kind of like the iPhone notch

01:03:39   there on the side of the shuffle.

01:03:40   - It's just also weird to me,

01:03:42   like the controls are all on one side.

01:03:44   That feels like a hardware design limitation,

01:03:47   that there's not enough space, right,

01:03:48   to put it all in there.

01:03:49   - Maybe.

01:03:51   - So considering we have spoken about the iPod touch,

01:03:53   it's not on this list,

01:03:55   but do we want to just add the iPod Touches to this list?

01:03:58   I think we could maybe pick the first one and the last one.

01:04:00   Yeah, we can just say them, say them.

01:04:03   We're just going to say them, all right?

01:04:04   These aren't going to be on the list

01:04:05   because we didn't create this tier thing.

01:04:07   - Original iPod Touch S tier.

01:04:09   - I agree.

01:04:10   - Obviously.

01:04:10   - S tier without shadow of a doubt.

01:04:13   And then the newest one is the C tier.

01:04:15   It's like, I feel like this is really easy.

01:04:17   - Yeah.

01:04:19   And it kind of fell through B on its way.

01:04:21   Like I think, 'cause they had stainless steel backs

01:04:25   and they went to like a slightly bigger screen

01:04:27   and then they added the, you know,

01:04:28   the one with the wrist strap.

01:04:29   Like those are kind of B like,

01:04:31   it was still for a while, you know,

01:04:34   there'd be times like the iPod touch

01:04:35   would actually be faster than the iPhone

01:04:38   or have some feature the iPhone didn't,

01:04:39   but it definitely fell through the ranks over time.

01:04:41   So started as S tier, ended in C tier.

01:04:45   - Mm-hmm.

01:04:46   - All right, that's our list.

01:04:47   - Please, we got that out of the way.

01:04:49   - You gotta give me a B tier for that iPod nano.

01:04:53   - I am gonna say.

01:04:54   - Come on.

01:04:55   - I don't think all those Nanos should be there together.

01:04:58   I think one of them has to break out.

01:04:59   I still think a Nano deserves to be an S.

01:05:02   So I think the OG Nano should move to S tier.

01:05:06   - I would give S tier to the original iPod Nano

01:05:08   despite the issues, because it was the first iPod Nano.

01:05:11   - Yeah.

01:05:12   - And I remember a ton of them, like in real life.

01:05:15   - Yeah.

01:05:15   - More than the iPod mini actually,

01:05:17   maybe because I was too young, I don't know.

01:05:18   - And so because Federico gave me that.

01:05:20   - The weird one, give me the B tier,

01:05:22   Give me the B tier for the weird one.

01:05:24   I cannot abide.

01:05:25   I cannot abide that.

01:05:26   Oh, you got the B tier.

01:05:26   Oh no, but now we've got two votes now.

01:05:28   B tier, it's done.

01:05:29   B tier for the weird one.

01:05:30   I got what I want.

01:05:31   So I can go and get what he wants.

01:05:32   B tier, B tier, B tier, B tier.

01:05:35   I hate it.

01:05:36   Hey.

01:05:37   Yes.

01:05:39   We did it.

01:05:40   Yes.

01:05:41   This feels better balanced to me.

01:05:42   Okay.

01:05:43   All right, there's a screenshot of all that

01:05:47   in the show notes you can go check out.

01:05:49   Except the iPod touches,

01:05:50   you have to use your mind palace to add those in.

01:05:52   - That's right, 'cause we don't know how this website works.

01:05:54   - It's impossible.

01:05:55   - This episode of Connected is made possible by NetSuite.

01:05:59   The CFOs that get it, get it, and those that don't, don't.

01:06:04   So let's talk about the CFO,

01:06:05   your company's chief financial officer.

01:06:08   Today's CFO is critical to the strategy

01:06:11   and success of your business.

01:06:12   And in growing companies, there are two kinds of CFOs.

01:06:16   The one who's struggling to keep up,

01:06:17   spreadsheets are everywhere,

01:06:19   lots of manual processes going around,

01:06:21   errors, lack of visibility.

01:06:23   It takes weeks to close the books.

01:06:25   The other kind is on top of their game.

01:06:28   Automated reports, inventory, e-commerce, and HR

01:06:31   are flowing into the financial model seamlessly.

01:06:34   Insights coming with just the click of a button.

01:06:37   With visibility and control of your financials,

01:06:39   inventory, HR, planning, and budgeting,

01:06:41   NetSuite is everything you need to grow all in one place.

01:06:46   That's why NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system

01:06:49   used by over 29,000 growing businesses.

01:06:53   NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system

01:06:55   to power your growth as well.

01:06:57   You can automate your processes and close your books

01:06:59   in no time while staying ahead of your competition.

01:07:03   93% of survey businesses increase their visibility

01:07:06   and control after upgrading to NetSuite.

01:07:09   Over 29,000 businesses are already using NetSuite.

01:07:12   Join them by heading to netsuite.com/connected

01:07:16   for a special one of a kind financing offer.

01:07:19   That's N-E-T-S-U-I-T-E, NetSuite.com/connected.

01:07:24   Our thanks to NetSuite for their support of the show

01:07:27   and Relay FM.

01:07:28   - It is time to look back on iPadOS 15

01:07:33   as we continue in our series here leading up to WWDC.

01:07:37   So we're gonna take a look back at some of the features

01:07:39   that we received in iPadOS

01:07:41   and see how they've aged a year later.

01:07:45   The biggest things added to iPadOS 15, especially that were unique to it, were multitasking changes.

01:07:53   So I'll run through these real quick.

01:07:56   Or B-tier at best.

01:07:57   Federico's entire review next year will be a tier list.

01:08:02   Oh man, he's gonna save me so much time.

01:08:04   That's the entire, every feature ranked on a tier list, all done.

01:08:07   I'll run through these real quick, like all of the changes and then Federico,

01:08:12   I'm sure you'll have a couple of things that you'll want to point out.

01:08:15   So we got a new menu, so the little kind of like pill menu that sits at the top behind the three dots that was added and it basically just allowed you to more easily access some multitasking options about needing to resort to gestures.

01:08:31   When you now try to open a split screen, there's no kind of app picker of any kind.

01:08:37   You now just shown the home screen, tap another app and it will replace the left or right hand screen or left or right hand side or whatever.

01:08:44   So this is probably the best form of how to enact a split screen that Apple's done so far.

01:08:51   Maybe. Swipe gestures to activate split view.

01:08:55   So you can like on that little pill menu that I was talking about,

01:08:58   you can drag that down onto the side and it would do the split view thing for you.

01:09:04   I totally forgot this existed.

01:09:05   [Laughter]

01:09:07   I totally like, I remember, and I remembered it now when you're describing it.

01:09:12   Like, even when I read it in the document, I was like, "Wait, what?

01:09:17   What Cheshire?"

01:09:18   Yeah.

01:09:19   I came across this accidentally recently, as a reminder.

01:09:24   The everybody's favorite center window.

01:09:26   Oh my God.

01:09:27   Was it added?

01:09:28   Oh yeah, that thing, right?

01:09:29   Yeah.

01:09:30   I love the center window, used by all the best iOS apps.

01:09:34   Yeah, mail and notes.

01:09:35   The shelf, the ability to create split views in the multitasking app switcher.

01:09:41   I had forgotten about this. No, I do this all the time. I'm sure you do. And the fact

01:09:46   that now pretty much all of these things are accessible via keyboard shortcuts with the

01:09:51   help of the new globe modifier key. Well, they're still not doing enough though, because

01:09:57   it's still very, like one of my wishes for the next version is, which is something you

01:10:02   actually wished for on Cortex many many many years ago, being able to create split views

01:10:07   quickly from the keyboard, from Spotlight.

01:10:10   Just, you know, search open, put to the left,

01:10:13   put to the right, do it all from the keyboard.

01:10:14   That's still not possible.

01:10:16   I mean, what--

01:10:17   - I realized I find myself still

01:10:21   mostly using the old school system, like--

01:10:25   - Drag and drop.

01:10:26   - Drag and drop.

01:10:27   - Yeah, me too.

01:10:29   When I do it, which is not very often on my iPad mini.

01:10:32   - I don't think it's best, but it's what I still do.

01:10:35   Honestly, for me, one of the ways

01:10:37   that this has been aided is the app library.

01:10:40   Like I am an app library user for my sins.

01:10:44   And I drag and drop apps into split view

01:10:47   using the app library if it's not in my doc.

01:10:49   - This is a nightmare scenario for me.

01:10:52   App library into drag and drop for multitasking.

01:10:55   - I am doing everything the wrong way here.

01:10:57   This is not the best way to do any of this,

01:11:00   but it does tend to be what I do.

01:11:02   'Cause I forget about the buttons

01:11:04   and the swipe gestures for split view and stuff.

01:11:07   So I'm still trying to find the icons.

01:11:11   - I feel like we fall into the category of users.

01:11:14   I mean, obviously we are power users of these devices,

01:11:17   but I think we, the three of us,

01:11:20   we can only work with the extremes of iPadOS here.

01:11:24   Meaning, either you let us do everything from the keyboard,

01:11:28   or we're gonna use the most touch-based version of this

01:11:32   that exists, and that is the drag-and-drop method.

01:11:35   I think the three of us, we only preferred the extremes, which is why we're still using

01:11:40   the drag-and-drop way.

01:11:42   Because now we know that, and I mean, once you get it, it's super fast to use, and with

01:11:47   the multitasking menu, they were obviously trying to target those average users, or users

01:11:51   who were confused by how drag-and-drop worked for multitasking, and so they're giving them

01:11:56   an interface to manage that.

01:11:58   Which is fine.

01:11:59   I mean, that menu should be expanded in the future,

01:12:02   should have more options, but it works.

01:12:05   And obviously the gestures are kind of hidden,

01:12:07   but that's always been a problem of iPadOS.

01:12:10   But really the main problem here, I think,

01:12:12   there's a bunch of things that really,

01:12:14   really haven't made an impact.

01:12:16   Center windows, I haven't seen center windows

01:12:19   in any third-party applications, honestly.

01:12:21   - The shelf is just a useless, pointless thing.

01:12:24   - It's just, the shelf is a bad window manager, honestly.

01:12:29   It doesn't even support the functionality that the previous WindowManager, which was labeled "expose"

01:12:35   I think, used to have, which is the old method, the iPadOS 13 and 14 WindowManager,

01:12:42   allowed you to restore a window you had accidentally closed.

01:12:47   And if you accidentally close a window from the shelf, there's no way to bring it back.

01:12:51   There's no undo button, which I don't understand. And the window previews are too small,

01:12:58   It's confusing how you can activate the shelf in multiple ways.

01:13:03   I don't like it.

01:13:04   And it's a shame that they have wasted the "respected" shelf name for something like this.

01:13:11   But anyway, I think there's a couple of things that haven't really made an impact here,

01:13:16   and they're still a big problem for keyboard users, which is...

01:13:20   It's still not as efficient as Mac OS, honestly.

01:13:24   And obviously, we want more, right?

01:13:28   more split view options, more split view sizes,

01:13:33   three apps on screen at the same time, why not?

01:13:35   Putting windows on external monitors, why not?

01:13:39   So I think we will see the multitasking menu grow this year.

01:13:44   I don't think they will replace it.

01:13:46   I think they will continue, if they're gonna do anything,

01:13:49   until I think they will continue to build upon this design.

01:13:53   - I think to build on a little bit what you're saying

01:13:55   about the three of us as users,

01:13:57   I think the reason that I never changed

01:14:01   the way that I did things is Apple never made me.

01:14:05   Like all of the ways that I have been forced

01:14:08   to use multitasking in Apple's bad iterations of it

01:14:13   in the past, they've just stuck around

01:14:16   because I can still do all of that.

01:14:18   And I had so many years of,

01:14:21   like especially through that terrible time

01:14:23   of when you would try,

01:14:26   but you'd have to try and create an app.

01:14:28   Like, but every time you did try and create a split view,

01:14:31   it would move all of your icons around.

01:14:34   Like, do you remember those years?

01:14:35   - Yeah.

01:14:36   - Where it would put everything into jiggle mode

01:14:37   if you wasn't fast enough.

01:14:39   - Yeah.

01:14:40   - Like, I had to, you know,

01:14:41   I got used to doing this over time.

01:14:43   So like, all of the ways that they've done,

01:14:45   like the button system is better,

01:14:47   but I am not forced to use it.

01:14:50   So I just do things the way I've always done.

01:14:53   Like, honestly, I hope that Apple create a better way

01:14:56   to do this and then just get rid of the old one.

01:15:00   So I will be forced to use a better system.

01:15:02   I'm hoping, I think that what you were alluding to Federico

01:15:06   is like under that three button is like nine places

01:15:10   to put windows, right?

01:15:11   - Yeah, boy.

01:15:12   - And then I will use that

01:15:15   because now we have got new functionality, right?

01:15:17   Like, so I will get used to that system.

01:15:19   But in the current iteration,

01:15:22   It's just, they only added new ways to do the old things,

01:15:26   and I was just too used to doing them the old way.

01:15:28   - I mean, if you had told us even a few years ago,

01:15:31   hey, the iPad, the iPad should do multi window

01:15:35   like Windows does.

01:15:36   With Windows 11, they have all these preset layouts,

01:15:41   and you can very quickly choose

01:15:43   which one you wanna implement.

01:15:44   Like, just do that.

01:15:46   - We got widgets on the home screen,

01:15:48   and the Excel widget was added for iPad only.

01:15:52   - It's a big, big old widget.

01:15:55   - I do use a couple of them.

01:15:56   I use three of them actually.

01:15:58   - I have them.

01:15:59   I use them.

01:16:00   They're fine.

01:16:00   They're not interactive.

01:16:04   I would still like to get more sizes,

01:16:05   but the Excel is good.

01:16:07   And we've seen some developers

01:16:09   do some really creative things with it.

01:16:10   Like Joe, Timery Joe, you know?

01:16:13   - Timery Joe.

01:16:14   - Joe Timery has done some really incredible things

01:16:16   with the Excel widget.

01:16:17   So yeah, it's a good change, good change.

01:16:20   - I use Timery, Fantastical, and Carrowweather

01:16:23   as Excel widgets.

01:16:25   - The Apple Calendar Excel widget is also very good

01:16:28   if you're into a weak view.

01:16:30   - Yeah, that is really good.

01:16:31   App Library.

01:16:32   (laughing)

01:16:34   I'm the only user.

01:16:38   App Library Stan over here.

01:16:40   - The App Library is the app launcher for when you're drunk.

01:16:44   You're like, "Oh, I need to use apps.

01:16:46   Where are my apps?

01:16:47   - Wait until I tell you.

01:16:48   On my iPhone, I use the app library a lot.

01:16:52   I have three home screens.

01:16:54   - Oh my.

01:16:55   - So quite a lot of the time to launch apps,

01:16:57   I go swipe, swipe, swipe.

01:16:59   - Just pull down and use spotlight.

01:17:02   - I do that too.

01:17:04   I do that too.

01:17:05   I don't know why, but I've forced myself to use it

01:17:09   during a time period so I could understand it

01:17:12   and now I just use it all the time.

01:17:15   - Me and Kate, Kate and the Discord,

01:17:17   me and Kate are the only two people

01:17:18   that use the App Library.

01:17:19   - You two are using, you two and Craig Federighi, I'm sure.

01:17:22   - If, passionate ones, if you use the App Library,

01:17:27   send a tweet to @ismh and @Vittucci and let 'em know.

01:17:31   You don't need to include them.

01:17:33   - Wow.

01:17:34   - You're gonna get four tweets, so have fun with that.

01:17:36   - I mean, Twitter on my iPad is in the App Library,

01:17:38   so I'll probably just never see it.

01:17:39   - No, look, I only opened the App Library

01:17:42   for two very specific things.

01:17:44   the recently installed category,

01:17:47   because that's a good way to remove apps

01:17:49   that I'm just trying out from the App Store.

01:17:51   - Yes.

01:17:52   - And the test flight category.

01:17:54   Sometimes I install too many betas

01:17:56   and I wanna make sure that I delete the ones I don't use.

01:17:58   - Oh, they're all popping off in the Discord now.

01:18:01   Nili and loves App Library.

01:18:03   There's a red panda that loves App Library.

01:18:05   - Yeah, of course, no one believes you.

01:18:06   No one believes you.

01:18:07   Like no one believes, oh, I use the App Library.

01:18:10   No, I only believe you and Kate.

01:18:12   I'm sorry.

01:18:13   Everyone else is a liar.

01:18:15   - Yeah, because I remember Kate saying

01:18:18   they use the App Library multiple times in the past,

01:18:20   so they have a track record there.

01:18:22   I don't believe anyone else, I'm sorry.

01:18:25   - Quick note.

01:18:26   - Great idea, right?

01:18:29   Still kind of poorly executed, I think.

01:18:32   So quick note, you can swipe from the bottom right,

01:18:34   bottom left corner of the iPad

01:18:36   to quickly take a note anywhere on your device.

01:18:39   You can work with existing notes

01:18:41   you can create new notes, and you can capture deep links from Safari or other compatible

01:18:46   third-party apps. It's fine, but it's not—the big problem with it—I actually talked about

01:18:53   this on App Stories a couple of weeks ago—it's not really cross-platform. So, for example,

01:18:58   one of the greatest features of Quick Note, which I'm really surprised that Apple builds,

01:19:03   is you can take highlights on a Safari web page and save those highlights in a Quick

01:19:09   quick note, close the quick note, and weeks later, if you come across the webpage again,

01:19:16   you will see the little quick note indicator pop up and say, "Hey, you actually took a

01:19:20   bunch of quick notes here." And you tap that, and you see those highlights in place on the

01:19:26   page. It's incredible. Really, really nice feature. It doesn't work on the iPhone, and

01:19:31   it doesn't work on the Mac. Like, if you're building this system for recognizing things

01:19:37   you've highlighted in Safari so that they can be persistent over time, why is it not

01:19:44   cross-platform? And it's also kind of unreliable, like sometimes the Quick Note doesn't actually

01:19:49   come up, even though you are sure that you actually took some highlights on that page.

01:19:54   And the second problem, what if I don't use Apple Notes? What if I use a different application

01:20:00   for note-taking, right? Why is this not swappable for something else? And the answer is, well,

01:20:08   there's no API for it. So I hope that Quick Note stays as a feature, but I hope that it

01:20:15   also becomes customizable or something that multiple apps can participate into, just like

01:20:20   Picture-in-Picture. Like imagine if Picture-in-Picture for video existed, but you could only use it

01:20:25   in the TV app.

01:20:26   Oh, fair.

01:20:27   Now everybody can use Picture-in-Picture, it doesn't matter.

01:20:30   So I hope that they do a Quick Note API.

01:20:32   It doesn't have to be, obviously Quick Note will remain the name of the Apple Notes feature.

01:20:37   Call it floating mode, whatever, I don't know.

01:20:40   Just make that something that third-party apps can use.

01:20:43   You can submit apps to the App Store in Swift Playgrounds from the iPad.

01:20:49   I mean, there was a story that went around of somebody who had done that

01:20:53   and all the issues that came within the limitations.

01:20:56   Yeah, there have been a couple of apps that have been created that way and some, you know,

01:21:02   9to5Mac picked them up, I think, with Stories. I mean, it's fine. It's a great first step,

01:21:09   right? Obviously, it's not Xcode, and there's a bunch of limitations. So I want to believe

01:21:14   this is something that we'll continue to refine because it needs a ton of work.

01:21:18   And Universal Control?

01:21:20   I mean, that's so new, we can barely talk about it.

01:21:23   I mean, great, right?

01:21:25   - Yeah, I mean, it's only been a couple of months.

01:21:28   I love the feature.

01:21:29   I think a ton of people use it.

01:21:31   I think it gave a lot of people an opportunity

01:21:33   to use their iPads more, right?

01:21:35   Especially a ton of my users were like,

01:21:36   "Oh, I guess now I can put the iPad to the side

01:21:39   and more quickly use it or find a use case for it."

01:21:44   Like for example, the one through John

01:21:46   uses the iPad next to his Mac as a sort of widget dashboard,

01:21:51   which is a really clever idea

01:21:52   because widgets on the Mac are terrible.

01:21:54   So he's using that off to the side with the iPad and using universal control to move between them.

01:21:59   Really clever use case for it. I don't have anything else to say, it's way too soon to judge it long term,

01:22:04   but I think it's really well done. Even though it took him a long time to actually ship it,

01:22:08   but I think they've done a good job.

01:22:10   I understand why this... I feel like I can understand why this feature took a while,

01:22:14   like it seems really really complicated to do right. There's a lot of technology going on,

01:22:19   across multiple operating systems.

01:22:21   Like, it did not surprise me that this one came late.

01:22:24   Like, of all the features introduced in iPadOS 15,

01:22:27   this one seemed prime to be the one that would come out

01:22:30   in the fall of the next year or whatever, you know?

01:22:32   - Yeah.

01:22:33   - If at all, I thought for a while,

01:22:36   this is gonna be one of those features

01:22:38   that everyone tries to forget about,

01:22:39   but they did ship it.

01:22:42   Obviously, iPadOS 15 as well got all of the things

01:22:45   that we spoke about for iOS 15,

01:22:47   like focus modes, notifications, live text, Safari changes.

01:22:50   We already spoke about a Safari layout

01:22:52   for the iPad last time.

01:22:53   So that's iPadOS 15, right?

01:22:56   I didn't miss anything that I've heard, Rico?

01:22:58   - I don't think you did, honestly.

01:23:01   No, nothing major.

01:23:02   - There's little bits and bobs,

01:23:03   like you can put more apps in a dock,

01:23:05   but like, you know, no one's gonna write home about that.

01:23:07   - I think they've probably done more things with the pencil

01:23:11   and they have changed the grid layout,

01:23:15   which a ton of people were upset about.

01:23:18   And I haven't really heard those conversations anymore,

01:23:20   so I think people just get used to it.

01:23:21   Safari, obviously.

01:23:23   - It's worse on the iPad mini.

01:23:25   - It's so bad. - Like, if you're an iPad user,

01:23:26   you see it every day, other iPads,

01:23:27   you kind of just forget about it.

01:23:29   - Yeah, it's much worse on the iPad mini.

01:23:31   Obviously, there's the infamous Safari design,

01:23:34   which is now optional.

01:23:35   And we mentioned last time how we wouldn't be shocked

01:23:38   if it actually goes away this year.

01:23:40   Like, I really, again, now it's gonna be the people,

01:23:44   I use it all the time.

01:23:45   Great. I think it'll go away within the next two years.

01:23:48   - If you do use it all the time, I'm sorry for you.

01:23:51   It is the worst way to use Safari of the two ways.

01:23:54   - Yes.

01:23:55   - Which is, you know, they changed the default.

01:23:57   - I mean, somebody's gotta call it, right?

01:23:59   When some things are, we cannot just accept everything.

01:24:02   Otherwise we end up like, you know, with Linux or whatever.

01:24:06   Some things are supposed to be nice

01:24:09   and some things are not nice.

01:24:11   And that's the job of it.

01:24:12   - Just to, if you were using compact tab view

01:24:16   on Safari iPad, you were using the wrong version of Safari.

01:24:20   - You're not a bad person.

01:24:21   - No.

01:24:22   - You just made a bad decision.

01:24:23   - You've been tricked.

01:24:24   - Yeah, you've been tricked.

01:24:25   - It wasn't your fault. - You've been duped.

01:24:27   By Apple last year.

01:24:29   It's fine.

01:24:30   - I think that's iPadOS 15.

01:24:32   - Yeah.

01:24:33   Overall, like, I think I,

01:24:37   in my conclusion from last year,

01:24:39   It's a good quality of life update, makes a lot of things easier for a lot of people,

01:24:45   doesn't really change the conversation or push the iPad into a new direction for existing

01:24:51   Pro users.

01:24:52   So the questions from last year are still unanswered.

01:24:56   Like why does the iPad Pro have an M1?

01:24:58   What are you doing with the iPad Pro?

01:25:00   What's your Pro story for Pro users?

01:25:03   That narrative hasn't changed at all.

01:25:06   Your only hope can be that this is a version of iPadOS that looks better in hindsight after

01:25:11   the next version, right?

01:25:12   That like you look back and you're like, "Oh, I see why they did the multitasking changes

01:25:17   because iPadOS 16 moved it so much further forward."

01:25:21   But my worry is I don't think that that's going to be the case.

01:25:28   They generally don't touch multitasking two years in a row.

01:25:31   And my fear is that it's gonna be what it is this cycle as well.

01:25:37   Like, "Oh, well, we added the dot thing, so we're good for a while."

01:25:41   And I just don't think that's true.

01:25:42   I think all three of us agree they need to push harder on this.

01:25:45   But I would be surprised if we see major changes there.

01:25:49   Well, don't say too definitively yet.

01:25:51   We've got a couple of weeks left before you want to do that.

01:25:53   I'm not predicting.

01:25:54   You can't do that.

01:25:55   You don't want to do that.

01:25:56   All right.

01:25:57   If you want to find links to stuff we spoke about this week, head on over to our show

01:26:00   notes there.

01:26:01   dot FM slash connected slash 397 there you can get in touch via email with feedback or

01:26:08   follow up you can also join connected pro which is a longer ad free version of the show

01:26:14   each and every week and starting very soon all relay FM members will be getting our annual

01:26:21   specials there in the crossover feed if you log into memberful you can subscribe to that

01:26:26   and we have one coming out a little bit later in May all the other shows are doing it as

01:26:30   as well. And so now is a great time to join if you have not done that yet. You can find

01:26:37   us all online. Myke is on Twitter as I M Y K E. He is the host of a bunch of other shows

01:26:43   here on relay FM. Federico is the editor in chief of max stories.net. And you can follow

01:26:48   him on Twitter of a teachy vi ti CCI. You can follow me there as is mh. And I write

01:26:55   over at 512 pixels dotnet. I'd like to thank our sponsors Bombas, Indeed, and NetSuite.

01:27:01   Until next time guys, say goodbye. Adios, El Chirio. Bye y'all.