394: At the Intersection of This and This


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 394.

00:00:12   It's made possible this week by our sponsors FitBod, Squarespace, and Capital One.

00:00:18   My name is Stephen Hackett and I have the pleasure of introducing Mr. Myke Hurley.

00:00:22   It is a pleasure of being introduced by Mr. Stephen Hackett and I have the pleasure of introducing Federico Ficci... Oh, geez.

00:00:29   Oh jeez. Oh god. Oh, he messed it up, didn't he?

00:00:33   Hello Federico Djidjevic. Welcome to the episode.

00:00:37   Ciao Myke. I'm so sorry. I'm working

00:00:41   at like 60% capacity today. Why?

00:00:45   I don't feel very well. Oh no. Dun dun dun.

00:00:49   Is it the 'rona? I'll find out this evening when I take a lateral

00:00:53   flow test. Oh no. But I have declined

00:00:57   throughout the course of the day. So find out next time. Declined is not a

00:01:04   good word when it comes to your health. Yeah, it's true though. Like I started

00:01:09   off today fine and as the day has gone on I feel worse and worse. I've had

00:01:13   migraines. I'm a little short of breath at times, you know. It's not great. Yeah, you

00:01:17   got it. You don't know I got it. I could have lots of things, you know. We'll find

00:01:22   out, you know, like follow up. Maybe by the time this episode is

00:01:26   posted we couldn't we can let the world know if I have coronavirus or not. What

00:01:32   if we build one of those websites it's like a does Myke have COVID uh-huh it's

00:01:36   just a giant yes or a giant no in the middle of it I mean but that would

00:01:39   assume that I am always in a situation where this is like like this likely for

00:01:44   me you know I guess that's true for everybody huh have you tried the nasal

00:01:50   spray no I think went in the trash man Joe underscore the best person in the

00:01:56   world this like I'm gonna talk about which is with later on Dave sent me a

00:02:00   text like last Thursday morning and he's like you okay you sounded like you

00:02:04   really messed yourself up the only person to ask me you know why I love

00:02:09   Dave he's so hot he's just such a big heart he's like you sounded like you

00:02:13   really messed yourself up when connected last week you doing okay yeah man I'm

00:02:17   fine I'm fine well I thought it was all for the show like you were actually sick

00:02:20   Oh, well, I wasn't sick. I just didn't feel great after spraying the old nasal spray up my nose. Yeah.

00:02:26   I thought it was just the... I thought you were in character at the time.

00:02:30   Well, I mean, I had a headache. I mean, I have a headache a lot after this show because we scream so much, you know?

00:02:36   Right, right, right.

00:02:37   But it was definitely made worse by the nasal spray.

00:02:40   I've made a page at 512pixels.net/doesmikehavecovid.

00:02:45   Okay.

00:02:45   This is... right now it says "unknown".

00:02:48   I'm gonna say this is cyberbullying.

00:02:52   No, it's not.

00:02:53   It is a type of cyberbullying in the modern age, for sure.

00:02:58   Did you not apply any CSS to this website?

00:03:00   No. No.

00:03:01   Why?

00:03:02   It's a one-word HTML file.

00:03:04   My coronavirus potentiality is not good enough CSS for you.

00:03:09   Yeah, that's a lot of stuff going on.

00:03:12   There has to be, like, think of, like,

00:03:14   saying this sentence three years ago.

00:03:18   My coronavirus possibility is not good enough for CSS for you.

00:03:22   Yeah.

00:03:22   Interesting. Yeah.

00:03:25   I mean, as well, like two years ago, that would have been a much scarier question than today, right?

00:03:32   Thank you, vaccines and modern science.

00:03:34   Yeah, that's true.

00:03:36   I had to do it quickly.

00:03:37   All right, let's do some follow-up, shall we?

00:03:39   So, Lachlan sent in a paragraph from Apple's Environmental Progress Report.

00:03:46   This is about their self-service repair program.

00:03:49   It says, quote, We also announced self-service repair coming later

00:03:53   this year for iPhone 12 and iPhone 13

00:03:56   for customers who are comfortable completing their own repairs.

00:04:00   The program will start in the US and offer access to genuine Apple parts

00:04:04   and tools, as well as a repair manual for the most common repairs.

00:04:07   We'll be expanding the program to more products, starting with Mac computers

00:04:12   featuring M1 chips and additional countries throughout 2022.

00:04:16   Following a repair, customers who send in their used parts for recycling will receive

00:04:21   credit back from their purchase.

00:04:24   This was originally started as happening in early 2022.

00:04:27   It's now, what month is it?

00:04:30   April?

00:04:31   And it's coming later this year.

00:04:33   Also we have other countries later this year.

00:04:35   So busy year for the self-service repair program that is yet to launch.

00:04:41   starting in the US doesn't usually inspire a ton of confidence to us European users.

00:04:47   But they do say, like other countries, which I don't know how they're going to do all of this.

00:04:51   Honestly, this sounds like a very busy schedule, especially if later in the year

00:04:56   they also have this massive rollout of multiple new Mac computers and new iPad pros, iPhones,

00:05:03   Mac computers.

00:05:04   iPhones, iPads, the new Apple Watch with a new version, and also this new, what is called

00:05:11   SSP, self-service repair. I mean, we'll see, right? Uh, Steven, now you're gonna, you're

00:05:17   gonna do something with this, right? You're gonna, you know, definitely you are a handy

00:05:22   person. I've still planned on replacing the screen on my iPhone. Right. You can do that.

00:05:29   Well, you could use a big apple buddy to get the parts from the US, even if you live in

00:05:34   the UK. I have my own big apple buddies. What's your big apple buddy? Steven. And John. Oh,

00:05:40   - Oh John, yeah.

00:05:41   Can I, is it okay for me to use John?

00:05:44   I feel like, you know, is he not exclusive to you?

00:05:46   - No, no, no, you can use John.

00:05:48   Anyone can use John.

00:05:49   - Anyone you say?

00:05:51   - Well, provided I make an intro, you know?

00:05:53   It's like, well, it's one of those type of services.

00:05:56   - This is uncomfortable.

00:05:57   - I make an intro and then you can use John's services.

00:06:00   You know?

00:06:01   - D Cookie in the Discord has provided me

00:06:04   with some inline styling for the Myke COVID page.

00:06:08   - Okay.

00:06:09   fresh now it's all centered and stuff. So this is now I think that we have just

00:06:13   accepted the Myke Covid page. Stephen how bad are you gonna feel if you have to

00:06:19   change that to yes? I'm gonna feel pretty bad. Yeah because you did this you know.

00:06:24   No I mean technically I didn't. No technically you did create this website.

00:06:28   Yeah but I mean you know. You created the website. It's now a

00:06:33   communal effort. No. It's me, it's D cookie and it's pandemic all working together.

00:06:39   In general, in general, Covid is a communal effort.

00:06:42   Of good and bad.

00:06:46   That's true.

00:06:47   It's always a communal effort.

00:06:49   That's true.

00:06:49   I have important follow-up about my desk from many real users, you know.

00:06:55   Oh, here we go, Federico.

00:06:57   Alright, here we go. Yeah, yeah. The disorganized people have chimed in, okay.

00:07:03   This comes from Illustro.

00:07:05   Myke's daisy chain power strips aren't fire hazards.

00:07:10   UK-style plugs have fuses in them, even on power strips.

00:07:13   Unlike American ones, those fuses provide appliance side protection and stop the cables

00:07:18   from drawing too much current, preventing fires.

00:07:21   Jamie also sent in a technology connections video on this very subject.

00:07:27   Nobody is going to argue with technology connections.

00:07:30   So you can argue with me.

00:07:31   You know what fuses can't stop though?

00:07:34   Ugliness.

00:07:35   Well, so on that note, Keegan sent in an incredible tweet thread of messy desks, people with messy

00:07:44   desks, or you know, maybe genius artists, visionaries, like the first one being Steve

00:07:51   Jobs.

00:07:52   You can take a look at his messy desk there.

00:07:54   So you are comparing yourself to Steve Jobs?

00:07:55   Yes.

00:07:56   Okay, we have reached that point.

00:07:57   Okay.

00:07:58   I mean, it felt like an inevitability at a certain point.

00:08:01   But now, it's right there.

00:08:03   That group of people, you, Steve Jobs, Walt Disney I see, you know, just this regular

00:08:09   group of people.

00:08:10   I am at the intersection of messiness and podcasting.

00:08:17   Right, which is basically an intersection with just you, that you have invented.

00:08:22   Just you standing there at the intersection.

00:08:24   Okay, messiness and genius, which is all of these people here, along with me.

00:08:29   My favorite my favorite thing about this thread is the tiny model of the power Mac G5 that's

00:08:34   on Steve's desk.

00:08:35   Yeah, what is that?

00:08:37   I assume it's just some sort of like, internal like this is what this is going to look like.

00:08:41   And he liked it and just put it on his desk.

00:08:43   I think it's great.

00:08:44   I really want one with did Steven did see jobs had a Genelec amp?

00:08:50   Yeah.

00:08:51   Whoa, okay.

00:08:54   The big money stays.

00:08:55   Nice.

00:08:56   Yeah.

00:08:57   Nice tasting music.

00:08:58   No, but he got rid of all of that when he created the iPod Hi-Fi, remember?

00:09:02   Right.

00:09:03   He said, "I threw away all of my audio file gear."

00:09:06   You sacrificed the gen-- sacrificed the gen--

00:09:08   He just-- he took an axe to it.

00:09:09   [laughs]

00:09:10   Bang! I'm done with this now.

00:09:12   That's a 30-inch cinema display. That's the big boy.

00:09:14   Yeah, look how-- look how incredible this desk is.

00:09:16   See, this is the desk of somebody that is too busy to think about, like,

00:09:22   "Oh, my cable management. Oh, oh, oh, oh, my cable--"

00:09:25   But you seem to associate being busy with being good.

00:09:29   Yeah.

00:09:30   Interesting.

00:09:32   Busyness is the source of goodness.

00:09:35   Can I just say that, uh, you know, you know, you guys know how I feel about

00:09:40   platitudes, right?

00:09:41   Yeah.

00:09:42   This is a, this is well worn here.

00:09:44   Well, yeah.

00:09:45   You, you, you like using them in as many podcasts as possible.

00:09:48   I, it upsets me so much that they came up with that intersection of something and

00:09:53   something phrase.

00:09:54   - Mm-hmm.

00:09:55   - Because it is used so much,

00:09:58   the intersection of blah, blah, blah, and blah, blah, blah.

00:10:01   Right, Apple was technology and liberal arts, right?

00:10:05   So many people use it and it drives me mad.

00:10:08   Like, not everyone has to do a thing

00:10:10   because Apple did it, you know?

00:10:12   You know, I don't have to say it.

00:10:13   Oh, I'm at the intersection of this and this.

00:10:16   No, you can just leave it alone.

00:10:18   - And that's how you feel about platitudes.

00:10:20   - That's how I feel about that specific thing, yeah.

00:10:22   - Right, right.

00:10:23   What are you two at the intersection of?

00:10:25   - Me, I mean, at the intersection of Pokémon and tattoos.

00:10:30   I feel like that's my niche.

00:10:32   - I was gonna say tattoos and automation.

00:10:34   - My brother has a Pokémon tattoo, Federico.

00:10:38   Could I tell you that?

00:10:39   - I am planning my next tattoo that is going to involve

00:10:43   like a Pokémon aspect.

00:10:45   - Yes, yes, I love it.

00:10:47   - I'm gonna show you the sketch in private

00:10:50   because I still gotta make an appointment and everything,

00:10:53   but I have the idea. I just gotta make it happen.

00:10:56   - Steven, what are you at the intersection of?

00:10:58   - Old computers and dad energy.

00:11:01   - Yep, big dad energy.

00:11:03   - Okay, so all this to say, the people told you,

00:11:07   some people told you that you were right,

00:11:10   and therefore you wanted us to know

00:11:13   that you feel good about your choices.

00:11:15   - Yeah.

00:11:16   - Okay, we respect that.

00:11:18   We do not accept them.

00:11:19   - You know, I've been looking at my desks

00:11:21   over the last couple of, over the last few days,

00:11:23   over the last week, and I'm like,

00:11:25   these are good, these are good desks.

00:11:28   - As long as it makes you feel good,

00:11:29   like makes you feel good, that's all that matters, right?

00:11:33   - This episode of Connected is made possible by FitBod.

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00:12:01   exactly how to perform each exercise.

00:12:04   They have these videos in there,

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00:14:11   So I have a small topic that I put in the notes now,

00:14:14   and I'm seeing an unintentional through line.

00:14:17   Oh, no.

00:14:18   through the rest of the episode. So I have 5G now.

00:14:20   That's the COVID.

00:14:22   This is genuine. This is a genuine thing.

00:14:27   Yeah, you do, man.

00:14:29   That I have done.

00:14:30   Yeah, well.

00:14:32   Well, are you surprised?

00:14:35   I'm sure you do have 5G now, buddy.

00:14:38   No, I've renewed my phone contract

00:14:41   because I kept going over my data cap.

00:14:44   and I was like, "Ugh, I guess I should just get more data."

00:14:48   And then when I looked at all of the deals,

00:14:51   basically I could get unlimited data

00:14:53   with a, now for the less price than I was paying

00:14:57   for my 12 gigabytes of data a month before,

00:14:59   but now everything's 5G, right?

00:15:01   So I now have 5G, I wasn't holding off for it,

00:15:03   I just didn't care.

00:15:04   And I ended up getting a plan,

00:15:06   I paid for a plan to keep all of my like usage the same

00:15:10   when I travel, 'cause that was another thing.

00:15:12   Another reason I didn't want to change my plan was that, you know, now that the United

00:15:18   Kingdom has left the European Union, a lot of phone companies are trying to charge you

00:15:21   for roaming in the EU again.

00:15:22   Lame.

00:15:23   And my plan was grandfathered in so they wouldn't do that.

00:15:27   But now this new plan that I've got has an extra like little thing, like a benefit of

00:15:33   that you get to use your minutes and data the same no matter where you are.

00:15:38   So I have 5G now, so mostly it's the same and at one point I have 300 megabits down

00:15:45   when I was on a train. It's like amazing. I don't care about the 5G at all, I just wanted

00:15:50   the unlimited data. And it is weird to me how, why now that we can more quickly use

00:15:56   more data has unlimited data plans come back? Like unlimited data plans were not a thing

00:16:01   in the UK for years.

00:16:03   Same here.

00:16:04   And now we have 5G, now you can get unlimited data again. And I don't really understand

00:16:07   why that's the case.

00:16:09   - I think it's a way to charge you more

00:16:12   and so they could pay for all this.

00:16:13   - I'm paying less now than I was before,

00:16:15   but I'm on a two year contract now.

00:16:17   - There it is, right.

00:16:18   Yeah, I mean, it was very similar here in the US

00:16:21   where in the early days of the iPhone,

00:16:23   you could have unlimited data.

00:16:25   And then when tethering, at least how it was here,

00:16:28   if I remember correctly,

00:16:30   once like hotspot and tethering stuff came to iOS natively,

00:16:34   I remember that was a jailbreak.

00:16:35   That's why I ran a jailbreak for years.

00:16:38   And then they're like, well, you can have unlimited data

00:16:42   or you can go to a tier data system

00:16:44   and then you get tethering.

00:16:46   So that was like getting people off unlimited data.

00:16:48   But you're right, now it's back.

00:16:50   That's what we're on.

00:16:51   We've got an unlimited data plan

00:16:53   with two iPhones and an iPad on it and 5G, baby.

00:16:57   So has it revolutionized your life?

00:17:00   Are you making breakthroughs in healthcare and industry?

00:17:02   Oh yeah, like we have zero latency too, you know what I mean?

00:17:06   That's the real benefit.

00:17:08   There's all these ads in the UK by EE,

00:17:11   which is like one of our bigger carriers.

00:17:13   And they're like, "We set up a air traffic control room

00:17:18   in this house and landed a plane."

00:17:20   It's like, this doesn't mean anything, right?

00:17:23   Like I don't understand why this is a thing.

00:17:26   Like, what is the benefit to me with that?

00:17:29   Like, so I can land a plane from my bedroom?

00:17:32   - Yeah, you got this. - If you want to, you can.

00:17:34   - You got it, man.

00:17:35   - I guess so, right?

00:17:37   I guess I should get on that.

00:17:38   - It's aspirational, you know?

00:17:40   Aspirational plane landing from home.

00:17:42   - That's a really good point.

00:17:43   Yeah, that's a good point.

00:17:44   So yeah, I have 5G now.

00:17:46   I wasn't like a particular holdout, but now I have 5G.

00:17:48   You both have 5G, right?

00:17:50   - Yep. - I do.

00:17:51   - But Federico, we don't have the real stuff though, do we?

00:17:55   - Oh no, we don't have millimeter wave.

00:17:57   - Yeah, we have--

00:17:58   - But so few cities in the US have it anyway.

00:18:00   - Yeah.

00:18:01   Myke, I was curious if you've noticed any impact

00:18:03   on battery life, moving, like having that on and working.

00:18:07   - I can't say I have yet,

00:18:12   but it was something that was in my mind.

00:18:15   Like I'm always talking about the excellent battery life

00:18:17   I get on my iPhone, right?

00:18:18   And I also wanted to get that's the case.

00:18:20   But I do wonder if like that might be a millimeter wave thing

00:18:23   more than a regular 5G, I don't know.

00:18:26   I will keep my eye on that though.

00:18:28   I don't think I've had enough real world testing of it.

00:18:32   I've only been in the glory of 5G for like five days.

00:18:35   - The one thing I think it's nice about 5G

00:18:39   is how Apple now lets you do more things on iOS

00:18:42   with cellular data.

00:18:43   Like if you have 5G, you now have fewer restrictions

00:18:47   in terms of doing things like downloading heavy games

00:18:51   and apps from the App Store or installing software updates,

00:18:54   like that kind of stuff.

00:18:56   because of 5G, you can now do it on iOS.

00:18:59   And it's almost like, it kind of makes me laugh

00:19:03   because for years I've had an unlimited 4G data plan

00:19:06   because in Europe, compared to the US,

00:19:09   it's so cheap these days to get unlimited data plans

00:19:12   for relatively cheap, like I pay 20 euros or something

00:19:15   and I have unlimited 5G, which is why.

00:19:17   - Yeah, I pay like 30 pounds and have unlimited 5G.

00:19:20   - Yeah, which whenever I show my screenshots

00:19:24   of my data plan to John is like I'm very jealous of this.

00:19:27   But for years, I've been able to do--

00:19:29   How often do you do that?

00:19:31   Occasionally to make him feel bad.

00:19:32   Ah, fair enough.

00:19:33   Good, good, good, good.

00:19:35   Like for years, I've had the freedom to do this.

00:19:37   But it was only because of 5G that Apple was finally

00:19:40   convinced that it was the time to allow

00:19:42   for more cellular operations on iPhone and iPad, which,

00:19:46   I mean, sure, OK, do what you want.

00:19:49   So at least that aspect of 5G is nice.

00:19:53   Everything else, sometimes I get the really,

00:19:56   really fast speed, like 400 megabit down or whatever,

00:20:01   but it doesn't really matter.

00:20:04   You know, I can't really tell the difference

00:20:06   when I have 4G at 150 megabit down or 5G at 400.

00:20:11   I mean, sure it's fast, but like 4K videos on YouTube

00:20:15   load at the same speed and it doesn't really matter, so.

00:20:20   - All the stuff that I would wanna access on my iPhone

00:20:22   like just on my iPhone when I'm not on wifi.

00:20:26   LTE was fast enough like to download whatever I needed

00:20:29   to download whatever, you know?

00:20:31   But like, and I've, and now like I've noticed

00:20:34   like things I hadn't really paid much attention to before,

00:20:36   I guess 'cause I didn't have 5G, but there's like,

00:20:38   all these things in iOS, right?

00:20:40   Where you can be like, oh, if you want to just download

00:20:42   the software update over 5G instead of wifi or whatever,

00:20:46   which is intriguing to me.

00:20:47   - How about, I don't think I told y'all,

00:20:49   I was kind of kid at a dentist appointment or something

00:20:53   and the iOS beta dropped that had the face ID mask unlock.

00:20:58   I think we were like texting about it.

00:21:01   I was like, oh cool, you know,

00:21:02   I'll download this when I get home.

00:21:04   But then like half an hour later we were leaving

00:21:07   and I got my phone in my pocket

00:21:08   and it was super hot and rebooting.

00:21:11   I didn't know it would download

00:21:13   like the beta update over 5G.

00:21:15   It had just done it in my pocket.

00:21:17   I was like, oh, time to restart.

00:21:19   "Oh, I guess I have this feature now."

00:21:22   - Yeah, I was looking at it the other day.

00:21:24   Hold on, let me bring up the settings

00:21:25   and I'll tell you what it says.

00:21:26   But it's a, you can choose what you want it to do.

00:21:29   So data mode, allow more data on 5G,

00:21:34   may prefer 5G to Wi-Fi and use it for software updates,

00:21:37   automatic iCloud backups and a higher quality media.

00:21:41   - So there was a bit of news from Apple yesterday.

00:21:47   You mentioned Myke, the repair service thing

00:21:51   that had come out in their environmental report.

00:21:53   There's also some press around Apple's recycling program.

00:21:57   Sara Dietschy had a video on her channel

00:21:59   where she got to go to a recycling center

00:22:02   that Apple operates or is involved with.

00:22:06   And Daisy, the phone taking apart robot,

00:22:11   which was, I'm gonna quote here,

00:22:14   "Made from some of Liam's parts,"

00:22:17   which was the original robot.

00:22:18   - I remember us talking about this.

00:22:20   - It's the robot that ate Liam, Daisy ate Liam.

00:22:25   - We had poured one out a couple of years ago,

00:22:27   I guess in 20, four years ago, in 2018,

00:22:30   when this was announced that Daisy was built

00:22:33   from Liam's parts.

00:22:35   Poor Liam.

00:22:36   Wasn't able to do what Daisy can do.

00:22:39   This can do 200 iPhones an hour per robot.

00:22:44   That's 1.2 million phones a year, but it seems like in watching her video and reading some

00:22:51   other stuff that came out yesterday, Apple's not running this program at full speed.

00:22:55   Like they still have capacity to do more even with the current number of of daisy robots

00:23:01   they have.

00:23:03   Daisy is bigger than I expected.

00:23:04   It's like these four massive things sitting at sat next to each other, right?

00:23:09   That was what I took from the video.

00:23:10   Like it's not just like one self-contained little thing.

00:23:13   it's like a whole process of machines but they call it one unit. So you could say it's

00:23:19   daisy-chained. I had a thing I wanted to bring up, I haven't watched this video, because

00:23:24   Sarah was talking at the end, she was talking about the fact that it does 1.2 million phones

00:23:29   a year each daisy machine, it's 200 iPhones an hour but apparently that's not running

00:23:34   at full tilt and Apple want more people to use the trading program so they can recycle

00:23:40   more iPhones, right? So what I feel like if Apple truly really want this, they need to

00:23:48   be more competitive for trade and pricing. Now this is just something that I've been

00:23:52   aware of myself when it comes to selling phones or moving phones on. And I never go for Apple

00:23:59   because I don't think that they give the best deals.

00:24:01   It's too cheap, yeah. They don't give you enough money.

00:24:03   So today, I sat down and looked at this a little bit. So I'll give you some examples.

00:24:10   On Apple's website in the UK, they say they would give up to £490 for an iPhone 12 Pro Max.

00:24:18   So I'm assuming that is a top of the line storage iPhone in perfect condition.

00:24:23   Or good enough to perfect condition, right?

00:24:24   If they could have said they'd give up to.

00:24:27   The same specification on a UK phone trading website called Mazuma, which I've used a bunch,

00:24:34   you will get £595 cash.

00:24:37   Damn, okay.

00:24:39   Apple's 490 is credit.

00:24:42   On the Apple store, yeah, that's not good. If you wanted buy a new phone from

00:24:48   Mazuma, they will give you 654 pounds of credit. So that's 654

00:24:55   compared to 490 in credit.

00:24:57   Why would you choose Apple? Exactly, and I looked at a little bit more 365 pounds

00:25:03   for an iPhone 12 versus £415 cash or £456 in credit. We're using the same thing. It

00:25:12   gets more competitive as devices get older, but in everything I was checking, Apple never

00:25:18   exceeds the credit amount. They will only seem to exceed the cash amount. Where I would

00:25:25   say most people probably would prefer cash, depending on where you are in the process.

00:25:33   I don't know. Or maybe, you know, like, because it feels like Apple is able to pay less because

00:25:40   people were buying the phones on their website and they just want the money off now so they

00:25:44   can buy the phone, right? So they, they, they get to pay credit only and less. So I feel

00:25:51   like if Apple truly wants to get people to recycle their iPhones with them, they should

00:25:58   be paying the most money, they should be outpaying everyone because it benefits them. They get

00:26:04   parts that they can recycle for their own iPhones and/or if an iPhone is in good enough

00:26:11   condition, just sell it on their refurb site, which I'm sure is one of the best places to

00:26:16   get refurbs and I know it's more expensive than everywhere else. So I feel like Apple

00:26:21   should be the logical choice for iPhone trade-in, but they're not and I don't know why and I

00:26:27   I can only feel like when I look at something like this, the only thing I can take away

00:26:32   is, it's money, isn't it? They want more money. And that annoys me because it's like this

00:26:39   side of the company will tell you, you should be recycling. But then the other will say,

00:26:45   yeah, yeah, but we're not going to give you the best deal though because we would like

00:26:48   more money. So that's my thought on this process, which I do find it a little bit disingenuous.

00:26:54   It's also something that I've noticed in Italy, the trading prices from Apple are way too

00:26:59   low and that's why it's often like what I personally do and what my friends do, first

00:27:06   you try to sell your old iPhones or AirPods or iPads in your personal network of friends.

00:27:15   And they're never going to beat private sale, right? And they never should attempt to try

00:27:19   and beat private sale prices because that's like a whole different thing.

00:27:23   Right, but then even if you don't do the private sale there's other websites that

00:27:28   you can use and I'm not talking about eBay but there's tons of other websites

00:27:32   that you can use for third-party trading it's like you just mentioned and the

00:27:36   same happens here in Italy as well it's just not a convenient option to to

00:27:41   trading with Apple so that whole recycling you know policy that they have

00:27:48   and this message that they want to get across, I appreciate it.

00:27:52   I think it's an important thing that they are doing.

00:27:54   But practically speaking,

00:27:56   at least based on the people I know and that I see,

00:27:58   and judging from this conversation,

00:28:00   it seems that the same is happening in the UK.

00:28:02   People are just not doing it

00:28:04   because they want a bit of extra money, if possible.

00:28:08   -So... -Why would you, right?

00:28:10   -Why would you do it? I mean, sure, you would do it

00:28:12   because it's good for the environment.

00:28:14   But, you know, when we're talking about cash,

00:28:17   it's also cash and you gotta entice people somehow you know but like when you use these

00:28:24   companies it's still being recycled okay so that's being sold to someone else right like it's

00:28:30   reused and apple have that choice when you trade in they can either if it's in good enough condition

00:28:36   they're not going to recycle it they're going to refurb and sell it right or they can recycle it

00:28:42   So I just, you know, if entire companies can be created and make money buying these phones from

00:28:51   you that like for a higher price than Apple, I don't understand why Apple can't be more competitive.

00:28:56   Like 490 pounds for an iPhone 12 Pro Max, like at the one terabyte spec is a ridiculous price,

00:29:07   Like that is ridiculous to offer that

00:29:10   Compared to the $5.95 cash or $6.54 credit that and I just looked at one of these services

00:29:17   I'm convinced that you know any half decent service will give you more money than Apple and

00:29:23   I just don't I can't get my head around why that's the case like that

00:29:29   This just doesn't compute for me. They should be able to be much more competitive than they are

00:29:34   How cool would it be to go see that robot though?

00:29:36   (laughing)

00:29:38   Yeah, I'm sure it will be pretty sweet.

00:29:40   Sarah did a great video.

00:29:41   She's a great person for some, for a content like this.

00:29:44   In the, in the wrong hands, that's a really boring video,

00:29:47   but she made a very engaging video.

00:29:50   This episode of Connected is made possible by Squarespace.

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00:32:05   - All right, we can just blame that I'm feeling

00:32:07   under the weather today that I'm bringing

00:32:09   a selection of gripes to this episode.

00:32:11   - All right.

00:32:12   - My second gripe is that Twitter NFT spam's out of control.

00:32:16   - We're talking about NFTs, I love it, okay.

00:32:18   - Have you guys been getting these?

00:32:20   Every day I get a handful of accounts tagging me.

00:32:24   - Not really.

00:32:25   Oh my God, this is happening to me constantly.

00:32:28   Just check my Twitter replies and you'll see it.

00:32:31   - Okay.

00:32:32   - Like I'm blocking these accounts and reporting them,

00:32:35   but every day I get a handful of accounts

00:32:38   that do not follow me.

00:32:40   They randomly tag me to, I don't know,

00:32:43   try and spread the word about some stupid NFT project,

00:32:47   or they're like trying to win an NFT giveaway or whatever.

00:32:50   Like it's some growth hacking nonsense.

00:32:53   And it's driving me crazy.

00:32:55   Like, this is the kind of, like I have two parts here.

00:32:58   Like one, this is the kind of stuff

00:33:00   that will only continue to turn people off

00:33:02   of this whole idea, right?

00:33:03   Like that if there's any good to the idea of NFTs,

00:33:07   these like things that just make it seem more like scams

00:33:11   and cash grabs, it's just gonna just continue

00:33:14   to change people's opinions on them.

00:33:16   And I just think Twitter should be resolving this.

00:33:19   Like it's so clearly spam.

00:33:21   I think I saw someone say that like the easier way

00:33:24   fix this is just tweets that all they do is just tag other people with nothing else should

00:33:29   just not be sent.

00:33:30   They should be immediately flagged as spam.

00:33:32   And why else, why would you need to do this, right?

00:33:35   You just send a tweet to someone, you say nothing except tag six handles in them.

00:33:42   What use is that to anyone?

00:33:43   That's just spam under any sense.

00:33:46   And it reminds me that you can say, "Oh, you shouldn't make such blanket statements like

00:33:50   that if you're Twittering.

00:33:51   Oh, there could be general uses."

00:33:53   But we all remember when Twitter disabled sending links in DMs for years because they couldn't get their stuff together.

00:33:59   So I think they should do this too.

00:34:01   Yeah, it's, it's...

00:34:02   Did you see any of these, Federico, when you were looking?

00:34:06   I get the people with "eth" in their username and I always assume they're spammers.

00:34:11   But like, did you search my replies?

00:34:14   Yeah, I did. I see "Tasty Bones NFT"

00:34:18   is an account that mentioned you.

00:34:20   Tasty Bones, great name.

00:34:22   I get these every day. Mostly when I wake up in the morning, I block like three Twitter accounts.

00:34:27   Like, I hate it.

00:34:29   Well, you must have fallen prey to some crypto marketing scheme.

00:34:34   As if my email spam that I get all the time wasn't bad enough, now I've been locked up into some crypto.

00:34:39   Hey, hey, hey, Myke. Myke, Myke.

00:34:40   Yeah.

00:34:41   I have a great suggestion for someone you could put on your show.

00:34:44   They wrote this book.

00:34:45   Oh, geez.

00:34:45   And I think it'd be a really good fit for your show analog.

00:34:49   Don't you want to talk to the CEO of our company about how the blockchain is the future of podcasting?

00:34:55   So I'm referring a conversation I had in Cortex. You can go check it out if you want to.

00:35:00   Do you know someone sent me an email to say about that episode?

00:35:06   I have...

00:35:08   Like I'm a PR person for an expert on email who can help you with this.

00:35:12   It's just like...

00:35:14   I don't even understand what's going on.

00:35:17   An email expert, no, hold on. An email expert.

00:35:21   To help me with the problem and they should come on the show to talk about it.

00:35:24   But an email expert as a PR.

00:35:27   So like a PR person contacted me to be like, you know,

00:35:29   like these things that I talk about them. Hey,

00:35:31   you should have this person on your show. Right. Right.

00:35:33   And it was like to talk about your email problem and to help you with that.

00:35:37   No, I'm just thinking about, I'm just thinking about the structure,

00:35:40   like the success that you must have had as an email expert to be represented by

00:35:45   a PR firm contacting podcasts on your behalf.

00:35:49   I mean, these persons must be pretty legit, Myke.

00:35:52   I mean, do you have a PR person sending emails

00:35:56   on your behalf?

00:35:57   - Do you know what?

00:35:58   I don't actually.

00:35:59   That's a really good point.

00:35:59   I should do that.

00:36:00   - You could be a keyboard consultant with a PR person

00:36:05   who reaches out to other podcasts and be like,

00:36:07   "Hey, do you wanna talk to this keyboard expert?"

00:36:09   - I'm just bringing all the grabs today.

00:36:11   Do you think that this problem of NFT garbage on Twitter will get better or worse when Elon

00:36:17   owns it?

00:36:18   I don't think it will make a difference.

00:36:20   It'll get worse regardless.

00:36:23   I mean it's pretty gross already when you go to your profile page and you get this huge

00:36:27   pop-up in your face saying "oh now you can have hexagonal profile pictures with NFTs"

00:36:33   and I'm like "please remove this from my eyes and don't make me see this ever again".

00:36:40   James says that Federico is now your PR person.

00:36:43   Look, I'll do it.

00:36:44   I will send one email on your behalf.

00:36:47   - Okay.

00:36:48   - So choose your target carefully.

00:36:50   And I will send an email as your PR handler saying,

00:36:54   I represent Mr. Myke Hurley,

00:36:57   a UK based keyboard manufacturing expert.

00:37:02   - I'm not a keyboard manufacturing expert.

00:37:04   - Well, we gotta upsell you somehow, right?

00:37:07   That's the trick.

00:37:08   - Oh.

00:37:09   put together a nice bio say that you have multiple connections in the supply chain for keyboard

00:37:13   manufacturing you know that kind of stuff i mean not none of it has to be true i've just got i'm

00:37:17   not dreaming big enough you just gotta make it sound true yeah you gotta fake it till you make

00:37:22   it and that's how we put you on a podcast you know as if that was needed for you but still you know

00:37:30   while we're talking about twitter and elon i don't want to talk about elon owning twitter but i do in

00:37:36   in general agree with the idea that Twitter should become a private company again. Just

00:37:39   like in general, I think that they cannot run themselves in the way that they are. I

00:37:44   think that has been proven over time. Just like as a business, they have never seemingly

00:37:50   been able to keep their stuff together for long enough. And I think having shareholders

00:37:56   and being like a publicly traded company, I just think is a distraction that they don't

00:38:00   need. Like, they need to get rid of ads, right? And just charge everyone to use it, like,

00:38:05   ten bucks a year, and then just focus on that. Like, they are just a company

00:38:12   that just cannot seem to truly do anything right for really that long. And

00:38:16   I know that they have a ton of like really talented people there, like

00:38:20   engineers and stuff. Like, I know people that work there. The problem is their

00:38:24   leadership, like, they just can't seem to be able to do anything, you know?

00:38:28   And a lot of people have been pointing this out recently

00:38:30   'cause of everything that's going on.

00:38:32   Nobody on Twitter's board tweets.

00:38:35   All the board members,

00:38:36   they don't care about the platform at all.

00:38:39   They just want it to be something it's never gonna be.

00:38:42   I hope that this whole thing leads to them

00:38:49   just becoming a private company in some way

00:38:51   with good leadership

00:38:52   and they can try and get their stuff sorted out.

00:38:54   Because on their current trajectory,

00:38:57   It's just bad.

00:38:58   That's my opinion on the matter.

00:39:01   Would you like to be placed on a podcast to talk about this?

00:39:06   Federico has a lot of experience and the game is done.

00:39:08   Yeah, I would love to.

00:39:10   If someone could get me on some kind of...

00:39:14   I can get you on one of those business podcasts.

00:39:16   Yeah, someone needs to get me on a business podcast.

00:39:19   I have that friend of mine running the international business podcast.

00:39:23   I feel like this is a reference to something and I cannot remember it.

00:39:26   I mentioned this on the show before how this person, I realized, is now running a podcast

00:39:34   on LinkedIn and they got in touch with me a while back.

00:39:38   Right. Well, LinkedIn have a podcast network now.

00:39:42   Well, I don't know exactly the technical details, but this person that I know from my teenage,

00:39:49   you know, when I was in a band years, this person now runs the international business

00:39:55   podcast. That's the name. And it's one of those podcasts that, you know, a ton of people

00:40:01   on LinkedIn seem to engage with as they say, and they have guests on the show to talk about

00:40:08   business, you know, projects and companies and equity and whatever. Is it, is this person's

00:40:17   name Leonardo? Yes. Yeah, I found it. Yeah. It's the international business podcast. I

00:40:22   Do you want to be a great international leader?

00:40:25   Yeah, exactly.

00:40:26   Do you want to be a leader, Myke?

00:40:30   It's based in Shanghai.

00:40:32   Yeah, yeah, he lives there now.

00:40:34   Actually, it was very nice recently

00:40:36   when he sent me a DM,

00:40:38   because we actually keep in touch,

00:40:39   he's actually a great guy.

00:40:42   But I just find the name funny,

00:40:43   but he's actually a great person.

00:40:45   And he sent me a DM, like,

00:40:48   my, it's like, hey, teaching my boss today

00:40:51   showed me this, like open the Mac App Store on our computers. And he's like, "Hey, do

00:40:58   you know this guy from Italy?" And it was my interview on the App Store, you know, that

00:41:02   I did for Apple. And I was like, "Oh man, that's interesting." And it was translated,

00:41:06   it was like localized in Chinese. Yeah, they localized the interview for a bunch of international

00:41:13   markets, which is why I got like a second wave of comments from my friends, like from

00:41:17   Italy from Spain and this guy from China because it was later localized in different regions

00:41:24   and that was cool. But anyway, all this to say, you could be on one of these business

00:41:31   podcasts. Yeah, I feel like I would get lost though. Like, you know, in this environment,

00:41:37   I'd say whatever I want, you know what I mean? And it doesn't really matter if I'm right

00:41:41   or wrong because I'm just, this is our show. But if I take this to somewhere else and they're

00:41:46   "So what do you think the average revenue per user should be?"

00:41:49   You know what I mean?

00:41:50   They ask me a question like that, and I'm gonna be like, "Uh, seven?"

00:41:55   I just think seven.

00:41:56   What?

00:41:57   No, the perfect reply to that is like, "I'll tell you what, Jon.

00:42:00   It's not high enough."

00:42:01   That's a perfect answer!

00:42:02   Oh, Federico, you could go on CNBC with stuff like that, man.

00:42:06   You're ready to go.

00:42:08   Mr. Vitici, you know, he's back again.

00:42:10   I can wing anything, you know?

00:42:13   You just say what they want to hear.

00:42:15   Right.

00:42:16   - That's the trick.

00:42:16   - I'll tell you what, it's not enough.

00:42:18   I think all shareholders can agree that currently

00:42:20   the average revenue per user is under decline.

00:42:23   - They're not thinking big enough.

00:42:24   - They're not reaching their true potential.

00:42:26   - The Twitter is facing, they're not thinking big enough.

00:42:28   I'll tell you that, John.

00:42:30   That's how you do it.

00:42:31   And you say their first name,

00:42:32   so you sound more approachable and friendly to the host.

00:42:36   That's how you do it.

00:42:38   - I've got a lot to learn from you, Federico.

00:42:40   You really should be my PR manager.

00:42:42   (both laughing)

00:42:44   - I have a way with people.

00:42:45   people like me or so I hear. Man of the people. Exactly, thank you Steven.

00:42:51   You're welcome. Anyway, question, should Relay be a public company? No. Okay. The only answer to that being yes is if it like means that we can just make a

00:43:05   truckload of money and then go away, you know? That's like an exit, that's what they

00:43:10   call it right in the business. Let me tell you that Federico. What's your exit

00:43:15   strategy. I was thinking about a nap this afternoon. Wait, you're gonna exit via a

00:43:20   nap? Oh Steven, no, don't go into the light. You know? Stay with me buddy. So I had

00:43:27   this thought last night. I was watching, no spoilers, don't worry about it, but I

00:43:31   was watching the Severance finale. Anyway, I had this thought. Isn't going to sleep

00:43:36   kind of like a severed Severance procedure? If you think about it, you know?

00:43:43   Do you remember that video Gray made? Yes, yes. I've been thinking of that video throughout the

00:43:48   entire season of Severance. Yeah, that's interesting. What's the video? It's like

00:43:52   you were two. You are two. Yeah, you are too. Oh, creepy. Very upsetting. Yeah, it was one of

00:44:01   his best videos. Is that the one with the Star Trek? Is Star Trek in that one? No, that's the

00:44:07   trans transporter order thing yeah no you are too as about the the left and

00:44:12   right what are they called hemispheres of the brain whatever no yeah yeah that's

00:44:17   that one but I'm not thinking about that one there's a video that he made about

00:44:22   when you go to sleep yeah he what I think that's in the transporter video

00:44:26   okay oh that's the one I'm thinking of like that when if when you go to sleep

00:44:30   you the same person as when you wake up are you I don't know I mean how would

00:44:37   would I know? Yeah exactly. Anyway yeah go watch Severance. Great show. What are we

00:44:43   talking about? Like what is the topic right now? We were talking about Twitter having

00:44:48   NFT spam. Right right right. Okay so we're sorry you have spam. Let's talk about

00:44:56   Widget Smith. Oh yeah this is a good this is a good thing. This doesn't... You can

00:45:00   now have NFTs in your widget... I was kidding. Oh my god can you imagine? Like I know

00:45:06   I know Dave is more mainstream now.

00:45:08   Can you imagine if it was like introducing NFT Smith.

00:45:12   (laughing)

00:45:15   Of all the people I know,

00:45:19   underscore would be the least likely, right?

00:45:22   Like I feel like I would be the most surprised

00:45:25   - Underscore point. - If David woke up one day.

00:45:27   Oh my God, underscore.

00:45:28   - Underscore.

00:45:30   - Underscore.

00:45:31   (laughing)

00:45:32   Underscore.

00:45:33   - How would you like to be on a podcast

00:45:35   about your new cryptocurrency?

00:45:36   - I like, hey Dave, if you start a cryptocurrency,

00:45:39   you can come on the show and talk about it.

00:45:40   You're the one and only person.

00:45:41   - Should we do a cryptocurrency scam?

00:45:43   Like should we be scammers?

00:45:45   - Not on the air.

00:45:46   - Like is that something that we should try?

00:45:47   - It is so funny that like,

00:45:49   do you remember when NFTs were first a thing?

00:45:52   - Yeah.

00:45:53   - And I was gonna make one of the clip of Steven

00:45:57   saying it's stupid.

00:45:59   And I just got annoyed of how complicated it was

00:46:02   and just didn't do it in the end.

00:46:03   And I'm so pleased that I didn't do that, you know,

00:46:06   'cause now that would just be tied to me forever.

00:46:09   And Steven.

00:46:10   But anyway, so WidgetSmith added

00:46:12   a couple of different widget types.

00:46:14   One is an OnThisDay photo widget.

00:46:17   And then there's one that's kind of split into two,

00:46:19   which is AirQuality and PollenCount widgets.

00:46:23   And I've added one of these.

00:46:24   I've added a photo one and the Pollen one to my home screen.

00:46:28   And I just think that they're excellent additions

00:46:30   to WidgetSmith.

00:46:31   - Yeah, I love the on this day feature in day one,

00:46:36   and that's a widget that I have set up on my phone,

00:46:39   but that requires that I put something in day one.

00:46:42   And what's cool about this Widgetsmith feature

00:46:45   is it just uses anything in your photo library.

00:46:49   And when you tap on it,

00:46:50   it comes up with this really cool UI

00:46:53   that shows you the date.

00:46:54   So it says 4/20 at the top, blaze it,

00:46:57   and then you can scroll back through the years

00:47:02   and see all of your photos for that given day.

00:47:05   It's such a smart user interface for this.

00:47:08   And I don't use a lot of photo widgets through Widgetsmith

00:47:12   because they can't open in the photos app,

00:47:14   which is generally what I want it to do.

00:47:16   But this one, like he's built this view that I don't care.

00:47:19   Like I love seeing the, okay, this is 420 on 2021

00:47:24   and 2020 and 2019 and scroll all the way back.

00:47:27   It's really well done.

00:47:28   So I'll give you a little--

00:47:30   David did actually add a feature,

00:47:33   which I don't really think he spoke about very much.

00:47:35   I missed it.

00:47:36   I know this because he showed me.

00:47:38   So now, if you have a widget that's, say,

00:47:43   pulling images from an album or something,

00:47:47   when you tap on that widget, it brings up

00:47:49   a view that then shows chronologically,

00:47:52   from newest to oldest, all of the photos

00:47:54   that widget has shown you.

00:47:56   - That's cool.

00:47:57   - So like, so he's made this stuff a little better

00:48:00   and he jumps straight into it, right?

00:48:01   So if like, you're like, oh, I thought I saw a photo there

00:48:04   a minute ago and it changed and I went to see it.

00:48:06   You can now tap it and you can see like,

00:48:08   these are all the ones you've been shown.

00:48:10   Like what I like also about this is this widget

00:48:14   in WidgetSmith works more like how I want the widget

00:48:19   that Apple makes to work.

00:48:21   But we spoke about in the past that now sometimes

00:48:24   opens a video instead, which is not what I want, right?

00:48:27   - Did you see how one of my memories last night,

00:48:29   it said dining and it was the picture of an eyeball.

00:48:32   - It was a picture of an eye, yeah.

00:48:34   - Feast it on those eyeballs.

00:48:35   Feast your eyes Federico.

00:48:37   - Oh, literally. - Yeah.

00:48:39   - Feast your eyes on this.

00:48:40   - Yeah, it happened to me just the other night.

00:48:42   I was on my phone and a photo come up.

00:48:45   I was like, "Oh, I wanna show this to Mary."

00:48:46   And I tapped it and all of a sudden,

00:48:48   like country music is playing out of my phone

00:48:50   to pictures of my daughter.

00:48:51   I was like, why? Why is it still a stupid slideshow?

00:48:54   Country roads to the plains.

00:48:58   Is it always country music for you, Steven?

00:49:00   I believe.

00:49:01   It's even country musical blues.

00:49:03   It's just whatever it is.

00:49:04   West Virginia.

00:49:06   I don't know the lyrics anymore. I'm sorry.

00:49:09   So yeah, I like these.

00:49:11   The pollen and air quality ones.

00:49:12   I don't use the air quality one. I use the pollen one.

00:49:14   And I didn't know that there were different types of pollen.

00:49:17   Tree pollen.

00:49:20   What is it? Tree pollen, flower pollen, and...

00:49:24   Oh, it's tree, grass, and weeds blaze it.

00:49:28   - Oh, nice. I see what you did there, underscore.

00:49:31   - No, you didn't do that.

00:49:35   So yeah, and now I know when there's high pollen count days,

00:49:38   which is helpful for me this time of year

00:49:40   to know if there's a high pollen count.

00:49:42   I would say like my top tip is

00:49:46   if you're walking through somewhere

00:49:47   and it's high pollen count, put your mask on for COVID.

00:49:51   And it helped me so much last summer.

00:49:53   Like you're not breathing in the pollen.

00:49:55   I mean, I wear glasses too,

00:49:56   which also helps with the eyes, but you know.

00:49:59   - No, it's a great update.

00:50:00   He continues to do such a good job

00:50:02   at adding new features to this.

00:50:04   I would have run out of ideas years ago,

00:50:07   but he keeps finding ways to add

00:50:10   like really valuable new features to this app.

00:50:13   - Well, hey, look, if there's one thing we've known

00:50:15   about underscore over the time we'd known him

00:50:17   is the man always has ideas.

00:50:19   - It's true.

00:50:20   - Right, he is an ideas person,

00:50:22   but now all of those ideas are just in WidgetSmith.

00:50:26   - Yeah, he stands at the corner of the intersection

00:50:29   of ideas and widgets.

00:50:32   - Yeah, that is very true, actually.

00:50:33   He does stand at that exact intersection.

00:50:35   - People are still into widgets, right?

00:50:37   Like regular people. - I am.

00:50:39   - Yeah, well, I mean, you're not a regular person.

00:50:41   - I am a regular person.

00:50:42   - No, we talked about this.

00:50:43   - I'm the regular person.

00:50:46   But I mean, I don't know about regular people.

00:50:48   I know I am.

00:50:49   - I think, you know, I always look at phones

00:50:53   of either my friends or like, sometimes I peek, right?

00:50:58   I'm a peeker, right?

00:51:00   I peek at other people's phones, like, I don't know,

00:51:03   like at a bar, like a restaurant or something.

00:51:06   I just, especially when they have an iPhone,

00:51:08   because I wanna be in touch with the world,

00:51:10   you know, with the people.

00:51:11   And I still see the custom home screens

00:51:14   with the widgets with the same color of the wallpaper,

00:51:18   people having the widgets with the inspirational phrases.

00:51:22   I have seen Widgetsmith in real life in Italy,

00:51:26   which I always think it's funny.

00:51:28   I know the guy.

00:51:30   But yeah, it seems that people are still into widgets,

00:51:33   despite iOS 15 not really building

00:51:36   on top of the success of 14.

00:51:38   It also reminds me of something that--

00:51:42   I believe it was also Lachlan from Follow Up, one of our mods in Discord.

00:51:47   From the Follow Up.

00:51:49   From the Follow Up.

00:51:50   Lachlan, they mentioned how...

00:51:53   There was this really interesting thread that Lachlan posted, like,

00:51:57   how Apple commits to features for the next version of iOS,

00:52:05   essentially in the summer,

00:52:08   when they don't know yet whether a feature of the current version that will ship in September

00:52:15   will be successful or not. Meaning, when they locked in the features for iOS 15,

00:52:21   they didn't know that iOS 14 widgets were going to be the massive success that they were. Therefore,

00:52:28   that's why iOS 15 likely didn't have anything new for widgets, right? That is a fascinating

00:52:34   problem to have, where you have effectively this one-year delay between shipping a feature and

00:52:40   knowing, like, for real whether you can build additional features on top of it. The theory being,

00:52:46   I guess we're going to see new widget stuff in iOS 16, because now Apple at the time to realize that,

00:52:53   "Oh, well, I guess we have a massive success on our hands and we got to do new things for it."

00:52:57   The question is, is it still relevant? Right? And I think it is. I think widgets and home screen

00:53:03   customization is always relevant. To bring him up again, I think Anasgul spoke about this publicly,

00:53:08   I think on Under the Radar too, like, for him photo widgets are where the, like,

00:53:16   it was what people are using Widgetsmith for, by and large. Like, they try lots of things,

00:53:21   potentially, but it's photo stuff that people land on, and that doesn't surprise me, like,

00:53:26   I have a bunch of photo widgets now on my iPhone. I have them in stacks, right, they're like coming

00:53:32   coming from different places, maybe different albums or whatever, but like that's a big

00:53:36   thing. It does remind me, and it's a long time follow up, I bet the both of you have

00:53:39   not ever opened that locket app again, right?

00:53:42   No, never. I did use it.

00:53:45   Therefore proving my point of why I didn't want to add the two of you to my group, because

00:53:49   then now I've removed the sanctity of the two-way locket sharing with my wife. They

00:53:55   did actually set up a thing where you could choose who saw them, but I didn't ever, I

00:54:00   want to deal with that because if I have the two of you and then I go to like a

00:54:03   whole thing and now I don't have to worry about it because it's just me and Adina

00:54:06   sends these pictures back to each other. Well maybe we uninstalled it because you

00:54:09   didn't add us. But you had each other and you weren't sending things to each other

00:54:13   were you? That's true. Yeah. Still a fantastic app it still gets updated. I

00:54:20   added emoji reactions. Lockit is great like it's great. Love widgets man. This

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00:55:55   One, what's in your wallet? Okay it is just just a really like what six seven

00:56:02   weeks before WWDC and that means that the rumor mill is a churning and we want

00:56:09   to focus today on the possibility of iPad multitasking changes. This is

00:56:15   something that Apple does every couple of years. Last year we really got I think

00:56:20   what the three of us would agree on as a refinement to what they had before.

00:56:25   But there's this Bloomberg article talking about this and then Federico I

00:56:30   think you had some some notes on the history of this and then like what you

00:56:35   think about some of these ideas that are being floated around. Yeah I did this

00:56:40   thread on Twitter, what was it, last week or ten days ago. Did you NFT it? Yes I

00:56:48   I minted the thread.

00:56:50   - Mm.

00:56:50   - You can--

00:56:51   - You did use the little cotton spool emoji, so.

00:56:55   - Yeah, yeah. - That's how we know

00:56:56   it's a real thread.

00:56:56   - You can get it for one Anders coin

00:56:59   on our blockchain Dapp.

00:57:05   That's what they're called.

00:57:06   - DAO, isn't it DAO?

00:57:07   - No, DAO is a decentralized organization.

00:57:10   The Dapp is a decentralized app.

00:57:13   So when we have a Dapp, yeah, yeah.

00:57:16   Look, I'm into this, all right?

00:57:17   Oh, are you? That's good.

00:57:19   Well, no, no, no, look.

00:57:20   That's good, you heard it here first. Federico is into the blockchain.

00:57:24   No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

00:57:24   No, let me rephrase. I like to know the enemy. That's what I meant.

00:57:31   Oh my.

00:57:32   I like to be informed.

00:57:33   Okay, did you hear that? Hey everyone on the blockchain, Federico Vittucci is your enemy.

00:57:37   Yeah, I don't care. Just, you know, do whatever you want, you know.

00:57:40   Block stories.

00:57:41   Look, I really think it's a silly thing, but I like to know why I think it's a silly thing.

00:57:45   I like to be informed. That's, you know, what a regular person should do. Don't distract

00:57:50   me from my podcasting process.

00:57:54   OK, so I had this thread on the history of iPadOS multitasking, even before it was called

00:58:01   iPadOS, it was just iOS, and with version 13 it became iPadOS. And what I realized is

00:58:08   that they have this schedule, right, where every couple of years they revise what they've

00:58:15   done before on the iPad, starting with, you know, when we got the first version of Splitview

00:58:21   that had the weird app picker, right? Remember that when in iOS 9, when Split View launched,

00:58:31   you could split the screen between two apps, but there was no drag and drop, and there

00:58:35   was no dock. You had to swipe in from the right side of the screen, and you had that

00:58:40   vertical list of thumbnails with the icons of the apps. That was kind of weird. And then

00:58:47   in iOS 11, they introduced the drag-and-drop system that was very heavily criticized at

00:58:54   the time. Lots of folks stopped using the iPad because of this touch-heavy version of

00:59:01   multitasking. And then every couple of years, they've refined the system. In iPadOS 13,

00:59:07   they introduced multi-window, and then in 2020, mid-cycle of the iPadOS 13 release,

00:59:16   They launched the Magic Keyboard with a pointer, like the system-wide pointer with trackpad support.

00:59:21   And last year they refined.

00:59:25   They didn't really do anything, they refined the system with keyboard shortcuts.

00:59:29   The multitasking menu, which is the new tray of icons that you see, you don't have to use

00:59:34   drag and drop anymore if you don't want to, but that version of multitasking is still there.

00:59:40   And they also introduced a couple of features that I don't think they have really picked

00:59:44   up in usage. For sure, like the new center windows, have you guys seen center windows

00:59:51   in any third-party iPad application? No. Because I haven't. Because it's all, honestly it's

00:59:57   a pointless feature. It's, yeah, it's, I really don't understand why it's there. Like, so

01:00:03   what? Yeah, cool, it opens in the middle of the screen, alright. Like what is that supposed

01:00:09   to do for me, like realistically? Nothing, because that center window, which you can

01:00:13   get by say opening an email message from Apple Mail in a separate window or a note from Apple

01:00:21   Notes. That window, it's not like you can drag it to the side or like, you know, it's

01:00:25   not like freeform windowing. It's just there.

01:00:28   No, you're best off just using the compose sheet, take the full use of the application

01:00:35   and then use that application in Split View or whatever if you really want to. Or just

01:00:39   go full screen in that app and just... I don't understand the center window thing.

01:00:43   It's not surprising to me that it doesn't seem to have been adopted.

01:00:47   And the other one was the shelf, which of course is not the shelf that I wanted to have

01:00:51   in App.OS. The shelf I wanted was more like a clipboard manager of sorts, like a

01:00:55   place where you can drag and drop things to store them for later. Instead, Apple's

01:01:00   shelf is a window manager, essentially. It's a little tray, it's like a little

01:01:06   shelf for your open windows. So it's pretty disappointing, and it actually lost functionality

01:01:13   from IP address 14, which used to be that you could undo closing a window. Like, if you accidentally

01:01:22   closed an app window in IP address 14, you could undo that. There was a button that said "Reopen

01:01:29   Closed Window." The shelf doesn't have that button anymore. So if you accidentally close a window,

01:01:35   it is gone forever. So after this brief recap, we are left with this rumor from Mark Gurman

01:01:42   at Bloomberg. And Gurman is saying that essentially the iPadOS will get a new app picker. That's

01:01:50   all that Gurman knows for now. And we did a thing with the Twitter spaces, like a podcast

01:01:58   that is not really a podcast, but it's a Twitter spaces thing. And Mark said once again, "All

01:02:04   I know is that the iPad is getting a new app picker, but what would you like to see in

01:02:10   iPadOS, 16 he asked. And I know already, like, I can say before we get into it that the things

01:02:18   I want to see will not happen, and I kind of sort of already know upfront that I will

01:02:24   be disappointed. Because over the past year, really, it's not that I'm being pessimistic,

01:02:31   It's not that I'm being down on the iPad, I'm just being realistic, I think.

01:02:37   And I feel like, and this feeling has grown stronger, again, over the course of 2021 and

01:02:43   2022, the bold vision that I'd like Apple to take with the iPad is maybe too bold for

01:02:52   them to follow.

01:02:53   And they are content with leaving the iPad in the middle, between an iPhone, between

01:02:59   a Mac not as flexible as pro iPad users will want it to be. And if that's true, and I'm

01:03:07   still, you know, I will never lose hope, but also I don't want to believe in these things

01:03:13   I will mention too much because I don't want to be disappointed again, right? And I've

01:03:17   been disappointed many times over the years at WWDC, especially last year. All I'm saying

01:03:23   is I think Apple is seeing even the iPad Pro, even the device that has "Pro" in its name

01:03:31   as less pro than a MacBook Pro. And I guess maybe the answer is that there are multiple

01:03:37   shades of "Pro", right? Almost as if, oh, you can be a pro on the iPad but you can only

01:03:45   do so much, or you can be a pro on a Mac and you can do all these other things, which honestly

01:03:49   is not a good look. I think, like to say, like, I don't know, at times I feel like if

01:03:56   you want to be a pro on iPad you are a lesser pro, and that's not nice.

01:04:01   I see what you're saying. I can see an argument for like, the type of professional that uses

01:04:07   each device being different, like, as being an argument, but I would say that like, I

01:04:13   think iPadOS doesn't actually serve any type of professional fully.

01:04:18   - No, it does.

01:04:20   - Except my artists, maybe.

01:04:22   - Yeah, yeah, that's the thing.

01:04:25   The thing I've learned with Apple

01:04:27   and how they pitch iPadOS,

01:04:29   because I also see this in how their PR people talk about it

01:04:33   and explain certain things to you,

01:04:36   in how they always wanna highlight,

01:04:40   oh, but we have incredible artists doing work on iPadOS.

01:04:43   And I get it, like I get it,

01:04:45   that there's artists and photographers

01:04:47   and these very specific professions

01:04:49   that you keep mentioning over the years,

01:04:52   and they're always the same professions over the years,

01:04:56   that are doing excellent work on the iPad Pro.

01:04:58   But my question is, is that it?

01:05:00   Is that all it can do?

01:05:02   I don't think it is.

01:05:03   I don't think it should be.

01:05:04   If you ask me, I think iPadOS is the most exciting platform

01:05:08   that Apple has.

01:05:10   If you were to believe in it as the sort of flexible modular OS

01:05:16   that is unlike iOS and it's unlike macOS.

01:05:19   So I personally feel like something that Mark Gorman wrote

01:05:24   in the Power On newsletter as a follow-up

01:05:31   to the Twitter Spaces thing,

01:05:33   he mentioned the idea of the iPad Pro

01:05:37   almost switching its OS into a Pro mode

01:05:45   when you dock the iPad Pro at a desk,

01:05:48   maybe with an external display,

01:05:50   maybe with an external keyboard and trackpad.

01:05:53   Now, Mark is one of the people who believe

01:05:55   that iPad should run macOS,

01:05:57   and I strongly disagree with that.

01:05:59   But the idea of iPadOS doing more to adapt,

01:06:04   sort of, dynamically to the context

01:06:09   that you're using the iPad,

01:06:10   that is a fascinating idea,

01:06:12   and it's exactly what I would like Apple to explore.

01:06:14   I've been, you know, I know that Myke,

01:06:17   you don't like expressions.

01:06:18   You don't like people coming up

01:06:19   with their own terminology for things.

01:06:22   - No, no, I'm fine with some of that.

01:06:25   I don't like when things are overused.

01:06:28   That's what I don't like.

01:06:29   - Well, maybe I overuse it,

01:06:30   but I keep using this expression of like the iPad

01:06:33   as a modular computer.

01:06:34   And if there's a better- - No, I like that one.

01:06:36   - If there's a better way to say it, I will switch to that.

01:06:39   But for the sake of the conversation-

01:06:40   - No, I think it's good.

01:06:42   I think it's good.

01:06:42   People often, like John Siracusa says,

01:06:46   "Naked robotic core," right?

01:06:47   "I prefer modular computer."

01:06:50   I prefer the Federico Vittucci one.

01:06:52   Modular computer, I think, is a nicer sound.

01:06:55   - Thank you.

01:06:56   So I really believe in that.

01:06:58   And I really think that is the,

01:07:00   that concept is where the vastly underused

01:07:05   potential of the iPad lies.

01:07:07   I don't think Apple is doing enough

01:07:10   when it comes to embracing the nature of the iPad.

01:07:15   Meaning, this tablet can become other things

01:07:20   and I don't think they're doing enough in software

01:07:24   to let it become multiple things.

01:07:27   - Yes, I agree with you so much on this.

01:07:29   Like this is the exact thing, right?

01:07:32   Of like what makes the iPad exciting is just this thing

01:07:35   that you can attach other stuff to

01:07:37   and it can work differently.

01:07:38   But as you say, they don't go far enough.

01:07:40   They don't go far enough.

01:07:42   Imagine, this may sound silly, but bear with me,

01:07:45   imagine if Kirby, the Nintendo character,

01:07:48   could suck in enemies,

01:07:50   but couldn't take from their abilities.

01:07:54   That's what the iPad is.

01:07:56   It's a Kirby that cannot absorb abilities from enemies.

01:08:01   In this case, the enemies will be the accessories,

01:08:03   but that's the idea.

01:08:04   - Wow.

01:08:05   - It only goes so far,

01:08:06   and they give you the bare minimum, right?

01:08:09   they gave you the pointer.

01:08:10   I'm sure you have a system-wide pointer that natively supports

01:08:15   iPadOS UI elements, but it doesn't do anything more.

01:08:19   Like, you have a pointer, but it's not like the iPad is

01:08:22   saying, oh, I see you are at a desk with a trackpad

01:08:24   and maybe an external monitor.

01:08:26   Well, let me switch up a few things in how you manage

01:08:29   windows, for example.

01:08:31   I see that you have an external display connected.

01:08:33   Let me give you the space to place more windows

01:08:35   on that display, right?

01:08:37   And it's that idea that makes me feel so sad.

01:08:40   Honestly, I'm not even mad.

01:08:41   I'm just, I'm not upset.

01:08:43   I'm disappointed.

01:08:44   I'm like the parents looking at their child.

01:08:47   You know what?

01:08:48   I'm just disappointed.

01:08:49   And in this case, I'm disappointed

01:08:51   because I can see the potential.

01:08:53   I can see this really beautiful idea

01:08:57   of what if the same computer could be many types

01:09:02   of computer and they're just not doing it.

01:09:05   So let's get down to the specifics.

01:09:07   I will point people to this excellent,

01:09:10   I think it's a thread now.

01:09:12   - It's two threads, I think.

01:09:13   - Two threads, okay, so from Parker or Tolani,

01:09:18   Parker used to work a nine to five Mac,

01:09:21   and now I believe they're a producer at Box Media,

01:09:25   product manager of Box Media.

01:09:27   So Parker does some really excellent concepts

01:09:31   for all kinds of things.

01:09:34   I've always liked Parker's visual concepts,

01:09:37   or like apps or devices, whatever.

01:09:40   And in this case, Parker posted this really incredible

01:09:43   iPad OS 16 concepts.

01:09:45   And now the thing with concepts is,

01:09:48   it's easy to make a concept, right?

01:09:50   You're not actually building the OS.

01:09:52   You don't have boundaries.

01:09:54   You don't have restrictions.

01:09:55   You can think of anything you want,

01:09:57   and you can make it happen,

01:09:58   because all you need to do is design it.

01:10:00   That's the thing with concepts.

01:10:01   It's easy because you're not actually building the software.

01:10:04   But some concepts are bad, some concepts are terrible, some concepts are great because

01:10:12   they show a lot of thought that went into designing them with as many restrictions and

01:10:18   boundaries as you can.

01:10:20   And this one by Parker is one of the great ones, because it shows how Apple, in theory,

01:10:26   could take advantage of the modularity of the iPad

01:10:30   to build software features

01:10:34   that follow along with your use case of the iPad.

01:10:39   For example, Parker imagined this radial,

01:10:43   like, circular menu for additional tools

01:10:48   shown around the tip of the pencil,

01:10:52   around the tip of the Apple Pencil.

01:10:55   So like a context menu for when you double tap the pencil.

01:10:59   And I mean, the gesture doesn't matter.

01:11:02   This is all theoretical.

01:11:03   But the idea of what if you could have this interface

01:11:07   that adapted contextually to the tip of the Apple Pencil,

01:11:12   and that gave you more tools like open settings,

01:11:14   or take a screenshot, or change colors.

01:11:16   Like, this should exist.

01:11:18   Like, why isn't this, you know,

01:11:21   I can't believe no one is talking about this,

01:11:23   but why isn't-- - They should put a button

01:11:24   on the Apple Pencil, though.

01:11:25   That tapping gesture, like, no, put a physical button.

01:11:29   Press the button.

01:11:30   - Do it. - Yeah.

01:11:30   - Yes, it reminds me of the Microsoft Surface knob

01:11:35   and like that little thing that you put down on the screen

01:11:38   and you get this radial menu around it.

01:11:40   That was great.

01:11:41   That was like more of that.

01:11:43   Similarly, we got Quick Note last year in iPadOS, right?

01:11:48   - Oh, yeah. - Which only Apple Notes.

01:11:50   Exactly, yeah, oh yeah, that thing, yes.

01:11:52   So it's an Apple Notes-only feature where you can swipe in from the bottom right corner or bottom left corner of the screen to take a quick note from anywhere.

01:12:03   Fantastic feature that shows some potential for multitasking, maybe.

01:12:10   And Parker imagined this, again, another kind of circular menu, where, like, what if you could swipe

01:12:22   from the bottom right corner of the screen and you had an app picker for different apps that you

01:12:31   could use in this popover mode? And that's the idea. The idea is, Quick Note is like picture-in-picture

01:12:38   for Windows, if you think about it.

01:12:40   It's a Notes window that is running

01:12:43   in a picture-in-picture mode.

01:12:46   That mode should become available

01:12:49   to every developer that wants to use it.

01:12:52   You should be able to open with just one gesture

01:12:56   any kind of window you want,

01:12:58   and resize it with limitations

01:13:02   to any corner of the screen you want it.

01:13:04   Now, I'm not saying that IPOS

01:13:06   should get freeform window resizing.

01:13:09   I'm saying the opposite.

01:13:10   I'm saying that Apple should believe

01:13:12   in something that maybe they have not done enough,

01:13:17   which is take a feature from macOS, right?

01:13:21   And maybe simplify it, maybe give it new limitations,

01:13:26   but adapt an old idea to the modern nature of the iPad.

01:13:31   They have done it with Split View,

01:13:34   they have done it with files,

01:13:36   they have done it with the dock,

01:13:38   they've done it with keyboard shortcuts,

01:13:40   they should do it with windowing as well.

01:13:44   I'm not saying you should be able to drag the pointer

01:13:46   to a corner of the screen and manually resize a window.

01:13:50   I'm saying maybe there's a way to do window resizing

01:13:53   with this floating popover design

01:13:57   that has, I don't know, presets for window sizes.

01:14:02   It's not like you can freely resize a window,

01:14:04   but you have more than one option or two options.

01:14:08   And then of course there's external displays.

01:14:12   That is the, I think the biggest problem right now,

01:14:16   which is a lot of pro iPad users

01:14:19   really bought into the idea, myself included,

01:14:22   you get an iPad Pro, you can use it as a tablet,

01:14:26   you can use it as a laptop, thanks to the magic keyboard.

01:14:29   But if you are at a desk, you can now use it as a workstation.

01:14:33   Except the latter didn't really come true at all,

01:14:38   because you plug an iPad into an external display,

01:14:42   and it does nothing.

01:14:44   Or rather, it does the basic mirroring.

01:14:46   It doesn't give you anything special.

01:14:49   Other companies have tried this before.

01:14:53   What's it called?

01:14:55   The Samsung Dex?

01:14:57   Dex.

01:14:57   Is it that?

01:14:58   Yep.

01:14:58   right? The idea that you have a portable device and it's a tablet or a phone, but then when

01:15:04   you dock it at a desk, it gives you a desktop environment, right? That, I think, is something

01:15:11   that Apple could do much more arrogantly, much more natively with iPadOS than any other company.

01:15:20   And I really believe that. But will they? And that's what I find kind of sad, because

01:15:25   because they've had multiple opportunities over the years.

01:15:28   I mean, the iPad Pro, it's not a young platform anymore.

01:15:32   The iPad Pro will turn seven in November of this year.

01:15:37   Seven years of iPad Pro.

01:15:39   - Wow.

01:15:40   - And we still have split view and slide over.

01:15:44   And now I guess we have the dock and multiple windows,

01:15:47   but I ask you, is that enough for seven years of iPad Pro?

01:15:53   - You know, the more we talk about the iPads situation,

01:15:58   if you will, I mean, the more I really come back

01:16:01   to believing like the core problem here

01:16:03   is that they're trying to solve user interface issues

01:16:08   for a super broad set of people.

01:16:12   And they've got to have an iPad that sells for 329

01:16:17   that it's a bunch of kindergartners are gonna use.

01:16:20   And they also need to sell an iPad

01:16:22   that somebody like you Federico wants to run his business

01:16:25   off of and a user interface and a set of features

01:16:29   that scales to that wide of an audience.

01:16:32   The Mac has the same problem, but the Mac is 40 years old

01:16:37   and so the problems are, even if they're not solved,

01:16:40   they are what they are on the Mac, right?

01:16:43   And people understand there's more traditional

01:16:45   computing methods and Apple wants to reinvent those

01:16:49   for the iPad, I think that's great,

01:16:51   but they've got to find a way to do it

01:16:54   where it works for everybody.

01:16:57   And like, I don't envy that problem,

01:16:59   but at the same time, I totally agree with you.

01:17:02   They should be bolder in what they try.

01:17:05   And if people never come across it or never use it,

01:17:09   that's fine, but be willing to branch out further.

01:17:14   It still feels like they have the sort of original

01:17:19   sit back in a chair, one app at a time,

01:17:22   slow, quiet use of the iPad that was originally shown off.

01:17:26   I feel like they can't shake that or they're unwilling to.

01:17:30   - Honestly, like working on the iPad Pro

01:17:33   and working on the MacBook Pro has given me,

01:17:36   I guess, maybe a fresh perspective on this.

01:17:39   But a lot of the time it feels like

01:17:43   I've had this training wheels on for the past seven years.

01:17:48   You know?

01:17:50   And I ask myself, "Well, you just said, Steven,

01:17:54   that they need to reach this wider audience

01:17:57   and they don't want to complicate things too much

01:18:00   because the iPad is used by children,

01:18:01   it's used by grandparents."

01:18:03   And I get that, but at the same time, I also wonder,

01:18:08   regular people of all kinds are buying laptops,

01:18:12   are buying portable computers.

01:18:14   They run Windows and they buy Macs, they buy MacBook Airs.

01:18:18   It's not an unsolvable or it's not an unsolved problem already.

01:18:25   You already have a user base, a customer base of people purchasing computers,

01:18:32   and not all of them are pros.

01:18:34   You know, you buy a MacBook Pro— Macbook Air, I'm sorry.

01:18:38   It's very likely you're not running Final Cut on that thing,

01:18:41   and you're not doing 3D complex, you know, VR building video games type of work,

01:18:48   but you still buy a MacBook Air.

01:18:50   And so I think Apple, you know, they're pretty smart people,

01:18:55   and they know how to design features for multiple audiences at the same time.

01:19:02   Whereas with the iPad Pro, it feels—honestly, it always feels like

01:19:07   pro features were given to us as a favor.

01:19:10   And you can never shake that feeling

01:19:12   that you're begging and begging and begging,

01:19:14   and eventually they give you the little candy

01:19:16   and they're like, "Here you go.

01:19:18   Don't you like this?"

01:19:19   And you're like, "Yes, more.

01:19:20   No, not for two years."

01:19:23   I'm like, "Okay."

01:19:24   - Damage your teeth.

01:19:26   - This is not like,

01:19:27   this is not even the carrot and the stick.

01:19:29   This is like the carrot and an entire fence of sticks

01:19:33   that you're giving to us over the years.

01:19:36   And it's like, can't you just do it more regularly and not, you know, spread apart by two years

01:19:43   every single time?

01:19:44   Yeah, I mean, they feel so hesitant to change anything.

01:19:47   I mean, I was just sitting here thinking as you were, as you were speaking, the Mac user

01:19:52   interface in like 1984 base, that's basically what we have today, right?

01:19:56   It's menus at the top of the screen, it's icons, it's folders, right?

01:19:59   They sort of nailed it and have been iterating ever since.

01:20:03   And the whole PC industry followed them for the most part.

01:20:06   And on the iPad, I see none of that confidence from Apple.

01:20:10   Like I think even when they do things like quick note, or the the little button at the

01:20:18   top of all the windows to like slide your panels around, like all that feels so like,

01:20:23   hey, this is here if you want it, but we don't want to confuse people like it's Yeah, I would

01:20:28   rather I want to see what you think about this.

01:20:30   I would rather Apple make a big bold change and it not go super well and they have to

01:20:35   like change it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Then then the current pace of just like poking around

01:20:40   the edges. Yeah, I totally agree. Like be like be bold. Like the the enthusiasm and

01:20:49   the passion that has transpired from the past two years of the new Mac line and Mac OS that

01:20:58   has made me look at the iPad and iPadOS in a different light, I think. I don't know.

01:21:05   I guess I don't see that passion. I mean, the iPad Pro hardware, the last exciting thing

01:21:12   they've done was the Magic Keyboard with iPadOS 13.4. That was honestly exciting. But then,

01:21:19   again, it stopped. Like, here you go with the Magic Keyboard and no more than this for

01:21:24   It's been two years now, you know?

01:21:27   It was at the beginning of the pandemic.

01:21:30   And it's this thing like you get one thing

01:21:34   every couple of years,

01:21:36   and then you're left wishing for the next 24 months.

01:21:41   And I don't know if I have the patience for that anymore.

01:21:46   And that makes me sad,

01:21:48   and this appointment will go back

01:21:49   to the beginning of this conversation.

01:21:51   It makes me sad,

01:21:52   Because even if I can be very productive and efficient on a MacBook Pro,

01:21:57   a MacBook Pro still doesn't give me that feeling of an iPad Pro,

01:22:02   of like, I'm touching the computer,

01:22:05   and if I want to, I can take it out of the keyboard,

01:22:08   and now it's a tablet in my hands.

01:22:11   That's what really makes me sad and bummed about this,

01:22:15   which is this, fundamentally, the idea of the iPad,

01:22:20   and the iPad Pro specifically,

01:22:22   as it is today. It is so exciting if you think about it. This computer that you hold and

01:22:27   then it becomes a laptop and it could become a desktop workstation. I mean, it's got the

01:22:34   power to run desktop software, but they're not doing it. At some point you just gotta,

01:22:38   you know, pick your poison, I guess. Do you want to have the modern platform but it's

01:22:44   a MacBook Pro that can only ever be a MacBook Pro? Or do you want to continue believing

01:22:50   in the iPad Pro that has the potential to be many more things in the future, and it's

01:22:56   a tablet today, but you gotta risk it, and you gotta continue believing in that potential.

01:23:03   And I guess I'm running out of hope. That would be the conclusion. You know, even I

01:23:09   can run out of hope. Well, it's sad to say, but you gotta be realistic. You know, at some

01:23:15   point you just gotta be realistic. And if all we get in iPadOS 16 is a new app picker,

01:23:25   that's my reaction.

01:23:26   It is a bummer.

01:23:28   James mentioned something in the Discord. "Be bold like the Safari UI." Yes, that is

01:23:36   precisely the point. They went a little too far, but they understood that fundamentally

01:23:43   there was something good about the idea, and they refined that. That's the process. Like,

01:23:49   you swing big, and maybe some things you miss, but if you know that there's something there,

01:23:56   you keep refining it. That's what the beta cycle in the summer is for. But yeah, that's

01:24:01   the kind of change I want to see. That's exactly what I want to see. Like, why does SplitView

01:24:08   have to be the same split view of seven years ago? Like is there really nothing else in the entire

01:24:16   world of modern multitasking that you can try beyond split view? I don't know. I don't know.

01:24:27   Well, we'll just, uh, we'll have to see. More unfolds as we get closer to WVDC. Be at the

01:24:33   the intersection of developer news and features.

01:24:37   That's what that conference is.

01:24:38   - And sadness.

01:24:39   - I got my, that expression,

01:24:44   I feel like we cannot use it for at least three episodes.

01:24:49   - I'm sure we'll remember that.

01:24:50   - I'm sure someone will tell us.

01:24:52   - That's true.

01:24:53   - Three episodes from now,

01:24:54   we can use the intersection thing again.

01:24:56   - If you wanna find links to stuff we spoke about,

01:24:59   head on over to the show notes.

01:25:00   this week there at relay.fm/connected/394.

01:25:05   While you're there, you can send us an email

01:25:07   with feedback or follow up.

01:25:09   You can also join and become a member of Connected Pro,

01:25:12   which is a longer ad-free version of the show

01:25:15   each and every week.

01:25:17   This week on the pre-show,

01:25:19   we talked about Mac stories turning 13

01:25:22   and a piece of computer equipment that was left behind

01:25:26   at the last WWDC.

01:25:28   that its fate is unknown.

01:25:31   You can find us all on Twitter.

01:25:32   You can find Myke on Twitter as I-M-Y-K-E.

01:25:35   Myke hosts a bunch of other shows here on Relay FM.

01:25:39   You can find Federico on Twitter, Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I,

01:25:43   and he's the editor-in-chief of MacStories.net.

01:25:47   Automation April is still going, so stay tuned.

01:25:50   - Still going.

01:25:51   - Stay tuned for what the guys have in store

01:25:53   for the rest of the month.

01:25:55   You can find me on Twitter as ISMH,

01:25:57   and I write at 512pixels.net.

01:25:59   I'd like to thank our sponsors, Fitbod, Squarespace,

01:26:02   and Capital One for making this episode possible.

01:26:05   And until next week, guys, say goodbye.

01:26:07   - I'll do that to you.

01:26:08   - Cheerio.