352: A Watched Watch Never Boils


00:00:00   [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:00:03   Hello, and welcome to Connected, episode 352.

00:00:12   My name is Steven Hackett, and I'm

00:00:14   joined by Mr. Federico Vatici.

00:00:16   Hello, Steven Hackett.

00:00:17   Welcome back.

00:00:18   Thank you.

00:00:18   It's good to be back.

00:00:20   We're also joined by Myke Hurley.

00:00:21   Myke, how are you?

00:00:22   I'm good.

00:00:23   Nobody's happier that you're back than me.

00:00:25   So you don't have to edit?

00:00:26   Exactly.

00:00:27   I appreciate your work every week.

00:00:29   Thank you. I enjoyed the show. It's fun to listen to it. I don't get to do that very often.

00:00:34   You could just listen back every week if you wanted to.

00:00:36   Well, I do during the edit, but...

00:00:38   There you go. You get to do it every time. You're the only one of us that does listen back.

00:00:41   We have some follow-up about email applications.

00:00:46   Big mail.

00:00:47   Big mail.

00:00:48   So it launched... It launched rockily, I think is probably the best way to put it.

00:00:55   There were tons of bugs, but I'm not surprised.

00:00:58   Honestly, this seems like a really complicated type of app

00:01:00   to just launch.

00:01:01   Many people, including my two co-hosts here,

00:01:07   decided not to bother using the application

00:01:10   after they found out there was no archive feature.

00:01:13   I actually didn't use it.

00:01:15   I started using the app for the first time today.

00:01:18   Because I was busy that day, and you'd both downloaded it

00:01:21   and just said, there's no archive in this application.

00:01:24   I'm not gonna do this.

00:01:25   Like there was no ability to archive an email,

00:01:27   nor was there an archive to view.

00:01:29   - Yep, I've tried it since then.

00:01:30   So I have a couple, I mean I tried it today.

00:01:32   So I have a couple thoughts, but please continue.

00:01:35   - But I tried it all for the first time this morning

00:01:37   because there was an update that came out

00:01:39   that fixed a bunch of bugs, which is cool.

00:01:42   And the developer added an archive feature,

00:01:44   which I think is also cool.

00:01:45   I'm gonna hand it to, what's the developer's name?

00:01:49   - Philip something.

00:01:51   - We'll say Philip, we'll just go with Philip.

00:01:52   -Is it like Cordell or something? -Yes.

00:01:54   I got to hand it to him, right, that like, obviously, he had an opinion.

00:01:59   Like, this is a very opinionated application, right?

00:02:01   And his opinion was you don't need an archive like our friends over at Hay.

00:02:06   Not friends, that was the point of that.

00:02:09   Because I complained about this back when we were first talking about Hay.

00:02:14   I didn't like that there was no archive.

00:02:16   It was just once you saw an email, it became seen.

00:02:18   And then that was just lived in that little area forever.

00:02:21   but he took on the feedback and added an archive immediately, basically, to the application.

00:02:26   I will talk you through some of my experiences having used it just a little bit.

00:02:32   I like the approach of breaking email out into sections in the application. It is like a

00:02:39   tab bar segmented app. On the iPhone there are too many sections though. There are more sections

00:02:48   that live underneath the little dots than there are on the tab bar. However, there is also this

00:02:54   "Here's what's new" view, which shows you a summary of everything that's happened

00:03:01   since you last opened the app, basically, in all of those sections. It's called the "latest".

00:03:07   But in general, this idea of making sections in the app is, I don't know, I kind of like it.

00:03:16   you know it's like a supercharging of what Google's been doing for a while right with like

00:03:21   promotions and all that kind of stuff where they they basically put your email into buckets for you

00:03:26   messages I found are formatted quite strangely so like I had an email from Apple I think it was

00:03:35   like the Apple store because I had to buy new tips for my AirPods because one of them just like

00:03:41   ripped off this morning which is an interesting thing that happened to me like you know like

00:03:45   the little rubber tip it just like came off the plastic part just like came off I don't know

00:03:51   and so I ordered some of those and the email was like zoomed in and I couldn't zoom out I could

00:03:59   just pan around the email which was weird so like the formatting the way it's like formatting email

00:04:05   and I know this is difficult because I've seen this with applications in the past right like

00:04:11   airmail and spark. They're much better at it now, but initially there's a bunch of stuff

00:04:16   you have to try and do to get the email to stay within the confines of the screen that

00:04:22   it's looking at. The conversations view, I know what this is meant to be, which is this

00:04:29   is meant to be all of the email that I exchange with people, so I see kind of like the conversations.

00:04:35   So if me and Stephen are emailing back and forth on something, this is where you could

00:04:39   find all of those, whether they're new or old. But I have a couple of issues with it.

00:04:44   One, it doesn't give me any kind of indication as to how many emails are in the thread, unless

00:04:50   I click into it. And it also does a bad job of threading. I feel like maybe I've taken

00:04:56   for granted apps like Spark that do a really nice job of formatting, and Apple Mail does

00:05:01   this too, right? They format an email thread like it's all separate emails without you

00:05:07   needing to look through all of the indent nonsense.

00:05:11   This app doesn't do that.

00:05:13   But my biggest issue with the conversation view

00:05:15   is most of the stuff that's in there is really old.

00:05:20   Like, it isn't pulling in all of my email

00:05:24   that I've sent or the conversations that I'm having.

00:05:28   And it's also showing every single one of them

00:05:30   as a conversation with myself.

00:05:32   So the name of every thread is just Myke Hurley,

00:05:37   which that doesn't feel right.

00:05:40   I think what it should be showing

00:05:42   is the person I've emailed,

00:05:44   but instead it's just showing my name

00:05:47   hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of times,

00:05:50   which I don't know,

00:05:51   that doesn't seem like that's working properly.

00:05:54   It has a newsletter section, right?

00:05:57   So, and this is one of the things that the application,

00:05:59   it's like an area where you can go in

00:06:00   and just read all your newsletters

00:06:01   and they format them nicely. I find it peculiar though that you have to tell the app that

00:06:06   a newsletter is a newsletter. I just kind of assumed that it was going to work that

00:06:11   out on its own. It's also kind of weird to me that there's a discovery section of newsletters

00:06:18   in the application that you can then go and subscribe to. And I don't really... That's

00:06:23   just like a... I don't know, that just feels peculiar to me.

00:06:26   Wait, like you can find newsletters you aren't subscribed to and go sign up for them?

00:06:31   Yeah.

00:06:32   I wonder if that's like a business thing?

00:06:34   I mean this app is expensive but like do you think that's...

00:06:37   I have no idea.

00:06:38   I mean when I click out one of the links, like Chatecarries in there, it doesn't like

00:06:42   format an affiliate link or anything in the email, in the link.

00:06:46   So maybe it's just...

00:06:47   It says at the bottom, "These links are being provided as a convenience and for informational

00:06:52   purposes only.

00:06:53   They do not constitute an endorsement or an approval."

00:06:55   Oh okay, there you go.

00:06:56   But it's just, I mean, there is an endorsement and approval because they've been specifically

00:07:02   picked.

00:07:03   I don't know, it's not like every email newsletter in the world, the developer picked them, but

00:07:07   legal stuff or whatever.

00:07:10   I guess, you know, ultimately I get to tell the app what the newsletters are, but I also

00:07:15   assumed that there would be some smarts applied to it.

00:07:18   Because, I mean, I don't, I haven't tried this yet because I haven't had the opportunity

00:07:22   to make something a newsletter but I have no idea if that information is going to sync

00:07:27   from device to device because like none of the accounts do so like you I have to sign

00:07:32   in to every account manually on every device that I want to use it on which I understand

00:07:39   why that is because then there's no like I know this is like a thing about other apps

00:07:43   where people were like oh they're saving you login credentials and it's just like a whole

00:07:47   big thing so like fine but I have no idea if that information will sync I would like

00:07:52   to believe that it would though.

00:07:56   One thing I found peculiar, there's a bunch of categories right?

00:07:59   So you've got like purchases, events, that kind of stuff.

00:08:03   None of my old email is saved in these buckets so it seems like a lot of this stuff will

00:08:11   apply from today rather than stuff that's back in time.

00:08:16   Which is difficult because then I can't get an idea of what this is going to look like

00:08:21   until it happens. Yeah, I had, I mean there's the bouncer which is like the

00:08:28   screener in Hay, it had things that were in my inbox like in my Gmail inbox and

00:08:34   it moved them there before they would show up. So like some stuff gets pre or

00:08:39   gets sorted into things immediately and some stuff doesn't. I found that to be a

00:08:43   little confusing. And don't mess with things that are already in my inbox. Yes,

00:08:48   It requires app specific passwords for Gmail and I don't know why.

00:08:56   So I think what has happened here is Google has changed their authentication for mail

00:09:03   clients.

00:09:04   Mailplane is a Mac app a lot of people like, including Jason, and they have recently announced

00:09:09   that they're actually shutting down partially because of what Google has done with like

00:09:17   the login flow and that sort of thing. So maybe it's that. I don't know for sure. I'm

00:09:24   not sure if they're even related, but I do know Google has made changes in that area.

00:09:30   Okay. Because that was just weird to me. Every other email app I've ever used just gives

00:09:36   you the sign in with your Google account thing.

00:09:41   And unlike Fantastical, where you have to sign into all your accounts everywhere, or

00:09:47   at least Fantastical used to be that way, what Bigmail does is once you create that

00:09:56   app specific password, it saves that to iCloud Keychain.

00:09:59   So I set up on my Mac, then I launched the iOS app, I told it to restore purchases, because

00:10:05   I won't talk about the flow going into it because I think it's confusing, and then it

00:10:09   "Hey, we notice that you have this one-time password saved for this account. Do you want

00:10:14   to enable that account?" So at least you don't have to do it on all of your devices. Once

00:10:18   you do it once, it's like in the big mail universe.

00:10:20   Okay, well that's cool then. That's cool then. I was just, I'd never come across that before.

00:10:25   Like I have it for iCloud, right? Apple have done this for ages with iCloud, but I'd never

00:10:29   seen that with Gmail. There are no swipe actions on email. So like I had a bunch of stuff in

00:10:35   my inbox like five or six that were just like Google alert things because I'd signed in,

00:10:42   right? So I'd like six emails or whatever because Google just loves to alert you because

00:10:47   I signed in with two different, no I signed in with one Gmail account but it just sent

00:10:50   a bunch of email and I had to like deal with them all individually by either opening and

00:10:55   archiving them or just long pressing and archiving them. I do really like the layout and the

00:11:03   design in general. I think that in that respect it has lived up to what I think a lot of people

00:11:10   were looking for which is imagine if Apple put effort into the mail app it would maybe look

00:11:17   something like this right it looks like a platform native app right it looks like all of the typical

00:11:25   conventions of design that an iOS app should with some additional with some extras right like it has

00:11:31   these little previews of an email in the notifications which I like that like a

00:11:36   visual preview of what the email looks like inside I like that kind of stuff

00:11:41   like I feel like I've been very critical but there is a lot of stuff that needs

00:11:48   to be worked on with this app I think but I do have faith in the developer to

00:11:54   add features because so far he seems to have been pretty responsive with that

00:12:01   So, it has not been a flawless launch by any stretch of the imagination at this point,

00:12:13   but I am intrigued to see if or how it is going to continue from now on.

00:12:23   I'm a little bit disappointed because I was really hoping, like from last week's conversation,

00:12:29   was going to be the new app for me. But I've put some accounts into it. I'm not going to

00:12:38   be like moving anything to it. I'm just going to kind of run them in parallel for a while

00:12:42   and see how it goes. But it's rough around the edges.

00:12:49   Something that I struggled to understand when I tested the app, and that was before the

00:12:53   the 1.1 update that added the archive feature was to understand the flow of bigmail. And

00:13:01   I'm not sure I get it still. Like, does the app have a concept of "this is new mail, this

00:13:10   is old mail you've already dealt with"? Yes.

00:13:15   Because it's... OK. It does. So, I mean, again, I don't know what you saw, right? Because

00:13:19   I never looked at the app that way, but all of the new mail is shown to you in the section

00:13:24   called the latest.

00:13:26   And then everything else is either in the specific buckets like the conversations bucket

00:13:34   or whatever, and then you can go into the other areas and then they also have something

00:13:40   called everything, which is where everything lives.

00:13:44   Yeah, that was the impression that I got, that there were too many ways to look at the same stuff.

00:13:50   Yes, there is a regular email client hidden inside this application,

00:13:55   which is under the "everything" area.

00:13:58   And that's what I found kind of confusing, because then I was also expecting, "Okay,

00:14:02   then I guess I should be able to see my email folders in here." But I don't think you can

00:14:07   see those folders. If you have a "sane later" or "sane news mailbox." And obviously,

00:14:13   I think this kind of application wants you to stop using that kind of additional service, right?

00:14:17   Because it's organizing email for you, so using SaneBox is kind of redundant for this kind of app.

00:14:23   It's trying to be that.

00:14:24   It's trying to be that, but locally on device and all that.

00:14:27   But I was confused because I opened the conversations view,

00:14:31   and that was basically like a replica of my sent folder, right?

00:14:34   Those are conversations that I'm participating in, which means I've sent a message.

00:14:39   Like usually when I want to see something that I've replied to, I just go to my sent

00:14:42   email section. And those are my conversations, right? And I struggle to understand, like,

00:14:50   how is it different, you know, conversations and sent? What's the difference here? And

00:14:54   then I didn't understand, like, is Bigmail moving messages out of my inbox or not? Like,

00:15:03   the sections that I see, newsletters, purchases, conversations, the latest. If I open mail

00:15:10   or Gmail, which I'm keeping on the side,

00:15:13   am I still going to see duplicate messages in the inbox?

00:15:17   Does it leave stuff in the inbox?

00:15:19   Or is the organization that it does within Bigmail

00:15:24   just a custom thing?

00:15:26   - I think it's a custom thing.

00:15:27   - So if you open Gmail, you see everything in the inbox

00:15:33   still, right?

00:15:34   - Well, unless I archive it, I mean, again,

00:15:37   this is what I don't know what it was like before, right?

00:15:40   So I'm still archiving the email when I'm done with it.

00:15:43   So then it's archived, like that will reflect

00:15:46   in other applications.

00:15:48   But like the application doesn't create

00:15:51   like a folder structure,

00:15:52   like something like Sparrow used to, right?

00:15:55   It hasn't like gone ahead and created

00:15:57   a bunch of big mail related folders.

00:16:01   There is a little slight addendum to that,

00:16:03   which Steven's gonna mention in a minute, I think.

00:16:05   But it hasn't created like a bunch of folders

00:16:07   that it's now putting all my email into.

00:16:10   - It hasn't done that.

00:16:11   - All right.

00:16:12   - Which I think is related to this thing

00:16:14   that Steven found today before we recorded.

00:16:16   - Yeah, so I played with it and I like what it's trying

00:16:20   to do, but I just don't want my email

00:16:22   in a bunch of different buckets.

00:16:24   But one thing I noticed going back to Apple Mail

00:16:27   is that all of a sudden I had a big mail folder set up

00:16:32   as like an IMAP folder in my account.

00:16:34   And you clicked in there and it has messages

00:16:38   that have attachments on them

00:16:40   that seem to be settings files.

00:16:42   So one of the things with big mail is that

00:16:46   it is doing the sorting and stuff all locally, right?

00:16:50   That it's not going through some sort of cloud server

00:16:55   and whatever, like that's fine, do what you wanna do,

00:16:59   but this app does it all locally.

00:17:00   And I think the way they're doing it, at least partially--

00:17:04   - I found the help article.

00:17:06   - Is with this little file.

00:17:06   Why do I have loads of emails called app data in a Bigmail folder?

00:17:11   To sync settings for reply layer at the bouncer and scene categorizations, Bigmail uses a

00:17:15   special folder called Bigmail to write data that can be read from all your devices.

00:17:20   Bigmail manages this folder automatically.

00:17:21   It will periodically add, remove, and combine these emails, so it's best not to remove anything

00:17:26   in this folder, otherwise you may lose some of your settings.

00:17:28   That's a pretty smart way of doing it, I think.

00:17:32   Because none of that information is now leaving your email accounts, right?

00:17:36   it's able to keep in sync that way. It feels a little janky, but it's kind of

00:17:42   ingenious maybe? Yeah, I don't know. I mean it's hidden in big mail. I only saw it

00:17:47   when I went back to Apple Mail. Right. So I think this is very promising. I just

00:17:52   think that this launch has been rougher than expected and I think people

00:17:59   are a little surprised at the high price. Also the the onboarding is is really... I

00:18:05   I don't think it's good.

00:18:06   Like you open the app for the first time and it's like,

00:18:08   do you want monthly or yearly?

00:18:10   Both come with a trial.

00:18:12   - Yeah, a lot of apps do that these days

00:18:14   and I don't like it.

00:18:15   - Yeah, especially with something like this,

00:18:16   like let me poke around first

00:18:19   and then as I approach those 14 days,

00:18:22   put a banner up in the app or something,

00:18:24   you know, let me know.

00:18:26   - This is the thing with hay, remember?

00:18:29   - I'm trying to think about it.

00:18:30   - And then Apple said,

00:18:31   you need to give people the ability

00:18:33   to create a demo account so they can go in and look at the app.

00:18:37   Well, this doesn't require an account.

00:18:40   Right.

00:18:40   This is just--

00:18:41   But I think this app could benefit from me

00:18:44   being able to go in and see, even with fake data,

00:18:49   what it's going to do before I give them $70 a year

00:18:53   or whatever it is.

00:18:55   I think so.

00:18:56   So I signed up for the two-week trial.

00:18:58   I'm going to see how it goes over the next couple of weeks

00:19:01   if they continue to put out updates,

00:19:04   who knows where it might end up going in the future.

00:19:06   But I don't know.

00:19:08   I'm, um, I'm, decided, I like decided

00:19:12   to keep an open mind on it.

00:19:14   - That's a good approach.

00:19:16   - Purely because like, I like what the app

00:19:19   is wanting to do, and I am encouraged by

00:19:24   the changes in the app so far.

00:19:30   So I want to, you know, I want to, I'm going to keep an open mind of it and I'm

00:19:35   going to keep poking around, but this isn't the only mail app you've tried.

00:19:38   Right?

00:19:40   No, I downloaded an app called, I assume this is called Mime Stream.

00:19:44   Where did this come from?

00:19:46   I've downloaded a big mail on my iPhone, but I'm also using Gmail on my iPhone.

00:19:52   Remember I have all these email accounts and I don't want them in the same place.

00:19:55   Right?

00:19:56   So my Cortex brand email, I really want in its own application, even if I don't do anything else.

00:20:03   I've always done this. I've just wanted that email separate because it's like so different to the

00:20:08   other types of email that I get. It's like whiplash. So I wanted to keep that email on its own.

00:20:13   First I had it in Outlook, then I moved it to Hey. Now it's back to Gmail again, and I've been using

00:20:19   the Gmail app on my iPhone or my iPad. But there isn't a Gmail app for the Mac, right?

00:20:27   And I don't want to be like, it's too tricky for me to be logged in all the time because

00:20:31   then like I have so many Google accounts. So I was thinking I wanted to get an app for

00:20:37   the Mac for Gmail. People love MailPlane, but that's going away. And I remembered an

00:20:42   application that I heard Stephen talk about on Mac Power Users called Mime

00:20:48   Stream? Mime Stream? I don't understand the name. Isn't Mime some sort of email?

00:20:56   Mime is an email thing, right? Yeah, email protocol or something? I don't care, it's a

00:21:00   bad name, but nevertheless, really nice app. It's like, again, an Apple Mail

00:21:08   looking thing if Apple Mail was modern right because it integrates all of the

00:21:15   Gmail features and can you know like sorting things automatically for you

00:21:20   highlights when there's a attachment this is a very nice application so I've

00:21:25   been checking this out today I just started using it today but I think it's

00:21:29   really nice it's like it's a beta. Did you see who builds it? No. It's this guy

00:21:35   Neil Havari who spent seven and a half years at Apple working on mail. Makes

00:21:43   perfect sense because not only does it is it work and feel good I'm sure this

00:21:47   person was frustrated maybe and decided to go make their own app. Do Mon! Yeah it's

00:21:51   really good it's really really good I really would recommend because it's in

00:21:56   beta right now I really would recommend a different name because Mime stream it

00:22:00   it sounds like a streaming video thing, right?

00:22:04   Like it doesn't- - With no sound, just get it.

00:22:07   - Yeah, the name just doesn't,

00:22:10   the name does not connect for me.

00:22:12   - Yeah. - Right, at all.

00:22:13   - Neil, can you please make an iOS version of this?

00:22:16   - Yes. - Yes, nice, right?

00:22:18   - Thank you, Neil.

00:22:19   This looks really nice and man, it really does show

00:22:22   just how much Apple is just leaving Apple Mail

00:22:27   in the past at this point, right?

00:22:29   - Yep.

00:22:30   And I wrote this today, like, it's incredible to realize this after the year that we just

00:22:38   lived through with remote work and just, you know, not being at the office and using email

00:22:42   a lot.

00:22:43   Like, how is it possible that Mail still basically looks the same as 10 years ago with no new

00:22:50   features?

00:22:51   And when they did try to bring something new to Apple Mail with the weird toolbar buttons,

00:22:57   the entire user base revolted and now the toolbar is back to ROML again.

00:23:04   They are working on an iOS and iPadOS app.

00:23:06   But just imagine if Apple Mail got the Apple Notes treatment, right?

00:23:14   It's fun to dream.

00:23:16   Myke, did you notice in its settings that you can have the thing you want where, say

00:23:22   Say you have two unread messages and you archive the first one, it doesn't automatically select

00:23:27   and mark as read the next one?

00:23:29   I have not come across this yet because I haven't had enough email in that account,

00:23:34   but it makes me so happy when an application adds this.

00:23:39   I have been lucky enough to force this feature into a couple of email apps of them in my

00:23:43   lifetime because I don't understand this idea of like, if I deal with one email, what I

00:23:49   definitely want is the next one immediately.

00:23:52   I must have it open.

00:23:53   So that's cool. I would have,

00:23:54   I would have gone searching for that.

00:23:56   So I'm very pleased that you've told me that it exists.

00:23:58   It also has a related setting.

00:24:01   Mark messages as read immediately after a delay or manually.

00:24:06   So you can,

00:24:06   Oh my God, that's so good.

00:24:08   This person understands email.

00:24:10   Come on, Neil.

00:24:12   We need two things, Neil.

00:24:14   We need an iOS version and we need just a slight change to it.

00:24:18   Why do you call it my mail?

00:24:21   Why stream? I think streams my issue.

00:24:23   Why stream?

00:24:24   My...

00:24:26   I don't understand the stream part.

00:24:28   My mail.

00:24:29   Why mime?

00:24:31   Well, it's because it's a thing, right?

00:24:33   Some email protocol.

00:24:35   It's a mail nerd.

00:24:35   I don't like it, but that's I can understand it.

00:24:38   I don't get the stream part.

00:24:39   I'm sure that there's something I'm missing, right, about this.

00:24:42   But it doesn't email.

00:24:44   It's just the reason I would suggest it.

00:24:47   It's not it's not memorable.

00:24:50   I knew this app. I knew what it looked like. I knew its features. I could not think of what it was called.

00:24:55   And I had to ask Steven, and luckily Steven's memory is better than mine.

00:24:59   You can also set the keyboard shortcuts to Gmail or Apple Mail. It's got all sorts of cool stuff in it.

00:25:06   Oh, this is like... All these options, they remind me of... What's it called? MailMate on the Mac?

00:25:13   Yeah, but MailMate's like a markdown text editor with IMAP bolted to it. It's weird.

00:25:18   That sounds fun.

00:25:19   That sounds great.

00:25:20   Big recommend for MimeStream.

00:25:22   It's in beta right now, but...

00:25:24   As soon as he adds printing, this is gonna be my mail client on the Mac.

00:25:29   It doesn't have printing?

00:25:31   Not yet.

00:25:31   Oh, like export to PDF?

00:25:34   Yeah, it doesn't have either.

00:25:35   Like you're not actually printing your email?

00:25:38   No app does this better than Spark, by the way.

00:25:42   Spark has a dedicated PDF button that you can press.

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00:27:36   I have a little more follow up. Eric sent us a link to an episode of the MXU podcast,

00:27:44   or M by U podcast, it's M little x u, wherein they talk to Webster Talston, who is an owner

00:27:51   of a company called Axis Audio, who have supplied some Atmos mixes to Apple for spatial audio.

00:27:59   The main takeaway here is that Apple is not using some of the data supplied by audio engineers

00:28:07   concerning binaural audio, which is something that is included in the at most information

00:28:17   that it's turned over.

00:28:18   Federico, can you give an explanation for binaural audio?

00:28:21   I can try if you can.

00:28:23   No, I cannot.

00:28:24   I have no idea.

00:28:26   Binaural audio.

00:28:28   You can create binaural audio with a binaural microphone and the main selling point here

00:28:33   is binaural audio allows for, when using headphones, audio to sound like it's coming from around

00:28:42   you.

00:28:43   It can put audio in different areas and it makes it sound like you've got that open sound

00:28:47   stage right?

00:28:48   Because it sounds like things are coming from, like it fakes the surround sound kind of thing.

00:28:52   Open sound stage.

00:28:53   So, but instead of using this information

00:28:55   that is coming from the audio engineers,

00:28:57   Apple have created their own algorithm

00:28:59   that synthesizes it what they want to be a virtual studio

00:29:03   around your head.

00:29:04   So the idea I think is that it's bigger,

00:29:07   like not everything's not happening like directly

00:29:09   in your ears, it could feel like it's happening

00:29:11   also far away.

00:29:14   So something that Webster said on the show is that

00:29:19   the algorithm has also continued to be tweaked

00:29:22   since the launch of Spatial Audio Apple Music and he believes getting better.

00:29:31   So I just wanted to share that thought it was interesting.

00:29:34   So that may explain why some songs with Spatial Audio at launch, they sounded really strange

00:29:41   and why some readers told me over the past few weeks like I believe they fixed the song and they

00:29:48   updated some songs and I thought that was also strange like how can you update

00:29:54   songs but I guess if software is involved and algorithms are involved

00:29:59   this is just kind of the world that we're living in now songs can be updated

00:30:03   and they sound different which is funny to think about. I guess that they're

00:30:08   probably not even updating the songs. Right. They're just updating the way that

00:30:14   the audio is interpreted by the headphones. Right, but from an experience standpoint you're listening

00:30:21   to one song and it sounds a certain way and then a few days pass or a few weeks pass and you listen

00:30:25   again it sounds different. Buddy Holly 2021.06. Wonderwall 2.5.

00:30:32   So yeah, cool follow-up. Stephen Brokkin of a product.

00:30:41   Are we surprised? I like it. Stephen broke an Apple watch. Stephen broke his watch.

00:30:45   Care to explain?

00:30:49   I was... Explain yourself. ...camping with my family and

00:30:52   where we were had waterfalls and and stuff and I was gonna

00:30:56   there's a section where you can like jump down this waterfall into the water below and I went to go do that and

00:31:04   smashed my

00:31:07   Apple watch on a rock under the water.

00:31:10   It survived like I mean the screen was shattered, but it still worked and I could still kind of make out the time

00:31:16   I thought it would be dead instantly

00:31:18   I mean it was I can't believe water didn't get in it, but like every 15 minutes. It would be like the

00:31:25   loud noise warning

00:31:27   Like even if I was just like I was laying down a hammock that afternoon

00:31:31   It was like it's 90 decibels in here you're gonna lose your hearing and I couldn't turn it off

00:31:37   because where the where the setting was for that the screen didn't respond to touch so

00:31:41   That was a bummer, but I got home, and I had my series 5 here, and I thought well

00:31:48   I'll just I'll just wear my series 5 until there's a new watch so I

00:31:54   Then went through the process of unpairing the series 6 to create a backup

00:31:59   That's only that's how you back up an Apple watch you have to unpair it and the backup is created so I did that

00:32:06   Set up the series 5 you know plugged it. Hey, you know had it on the charger, so it has some juice again and

00:32:10   it would

00:32:13   Not apply the backup it would only see backups that were really old. It's like. Oh, it's probably running watch OS

00:32:20   6 right we're on 7 now 8 is coming, so it's probably on an older version of watch OS so I

00:32:27   Unpaired that one

00:32:30   Set it up again as like a new watch

00:32:34   Updated watch OS on it which took forever like boys the series 6 it sir seems faster

00:32:40   I don't know if it actually is maybe it's a a watch watch never boils, but I

00:32:45   was eventually I

00:32:48   Was eventually able to

00:32:52   Repair it and then select the backup from the series 6 and that backup went on fine no problems

00:32:59   But it really just reminded me like how tedious this process is also you can't seem to get rid of old watch OS backups

00:33:05   I have watch OS backups from like watch OS 2 and 3 in there, but oh well. I guess I'm just carrying those around forever

00:33:11   That's weird. This is the second Apple watch you've broken

00:33:15   Yes, I've never broken an Apple watch. No, you don't wear one. I'm wearing it today actually

00:33:21   Hmm. So take that Steven. I don't know what to say to you anymore. Be more careful. Really? Yeah

00:33:29   So how did you do it? Well we jumped down into the water like I didn't hit a rock

00:33:35   but... Okay stop right there why are you jumping into the water? Yeah because like that's what

00:33:40   you do with this place like you... You kind of did hit the rock though I don't

00:33:44   understand how you could say you didn't hit the rock. So like my I sound like I slammed

00:33:48   into a rock with my body but... Well the watch the watch the watch did saved you if

00:33:53   you weren't wearing the watch you would have busted your wrist. The watch was

00:33:56   like your shield. Yep. It's like in movies when like someone gets shot and then they

00:34:02   take a Bible out of their pocket and the Bible caught the bullet. That's basically what happened

00:34:06   to you but with an Apple Watch, your wrist and a rock. Have you written a letter to Tim

00:34:12   Cook about this yet? Maybe I can be in the commercial with Kyle. Yeah, the Apple Watch

00:34:20   saved me from a graze in my wrist. I was sliding down a waterfall and the Apple Watch saved

00:34:26   my life I can see the headlines on like what's it called Tennessee Tennessee

00:34:32   news whatever like a tennisopolis 40 year old saved by Apple watch 40 yeah

00:34:42   round 35 yeah you could round up from that to full it's not even my half

00:34:47   birthday yet I'm still feel like I'm rounding down you can round up to 30 you

00:34:52   You went too far. You round down to 35 round up to 40. So yeah another Apple Watch.

00:34:57   Are you gonna replace it? Probably not right? I don't even know if this one has

00:35:03   AppleCare on it I need to look. I mean like even if it did like if it didn't

00:35:08   you wouldn't get a new Series 6. No that's why I went back to my Series 5.

00:35:13   I was like it's I mean it's basically July so. What materials are your Series 6?

00:35:19   Which one did you get? The gray aluminum. Okay, so you've gone from aluminum back to titanium.

00:35:27   Yes. Or I guess titanium as you would call it.

00:35:30   T-t-titanian-titanianopolis. No, titanium, right? Al- aluminum. Titanium.

00:35:37   Titan, right? Sure. That must be how it works.

00:35:44   I like the titanium a lot more than I remembered, but it's definitely heavier and you know the

00:35:50   series 6 has the screen brightness way better when your wrist is down and it's funny now

00:35:56   to like catch it brightening up but it's fine.

00:35:59   I've just remembered I don't own a series 6.

00:36:01   I have a series 5.

00:36:02   Do I own a series 6?

00:36:03   Of course you do.

00:36:04   I think I do, right?

00:36:06   I'm just looking behind my watch.

00:36:10   Yeah I do.

00:36:11   Okay cool.

00:36:12   How was it different?

00:36:13   Oh yeah, the blood oxygen stuff.

00:36:15   That and the screen is brighter when in sort of wrist down mode.

00:36:21   Oh yeah, it's brighter in... the always on display is brighter.

00:36:26   Cool, okay.

00:36:27   Yeah, I guess I never noticed.

00:36:29   So there's less of a like transition.

00:36:31   Yeah, I bet, I bet.

00:36:33   So anyways, no one tell David Sparks because he thinks that I break a lot of Apple devices

00:36:38   and I think that's ridiculous.

00:36:39   What are you talking about?

00:36:41   We tell you you break a lot of Apple devices.

00:36:44   Why is David--

00:36:45   - I'm just saying he's under that impression, falsely.

00:36:48   - The impression that everybody else is under?

00:36:51   - Yes.

00:36:52   - You are unlike anyone I've ever met.

00:36:55   I don't know anybody that does the things that you do.

00:36:57   I don't understand it.

00:36:59   - I mean, in hindsight, jumping off a waterfall

00:37:03   with an Apple Watch on was probably a bad idea.

00:37:05   - And like, the thing is,

00:37:07   you don't even strike me as a clumsy person.

00:37:09   - I'm not.

00:37:11   I don't think.

00:37:12   How would you explain this?

00:37:14   I don't think that you are as well

00:37:16   like particularly daring,

00:37:18   like maybe more daring than me.

00:37:20   But maybe it is though.

00:37:22   But maybe it is.

00:37:23   Maybe like the level that

00:37:25   I am at is the amount

00:37:27   of daring just before

00:37:29   you break things.

00:37:30   Like just the

00:37:33   same for you Federico.

00:37:34   Just like just one click

00:37:36   up is where Steven is and that is

00:37:38   where you break everything.

00:37:40   I don't jump off anything, really.

00:37:42   - That's not gonna break anything.

00:37:44   - Bad things will happen if I jump off platforms

00:37:47   or whatnot, yeah.

00:37:48   - You could say I'm a real fireball, 'cause I'm daring.

00:37:52   - Ooh, I've chosen not to say anything.

00:37:56   - What do y'all think about iPads getting bigger?

00:37:59   - Please, yes, thank you, I want one.

00:38:02   - Cool, moving on.

00:38:03   Now this is from Mark Gurman.

00:38:06   He's in the newsletter business,

00:38:08   but the newsletter is owned by his employer.

00:38:11   - And it's free.

00:38:12   - But it's free.

00:38:14   I have it set up to go to Feedbin

00:38:16   with all my other newsletters.

00:38:17   And Garmon suggested Apple's working on larger iPads,

00:38:21   possibly 14 or 16 inches in size.

00:38:24   This seems to be multiple years away.

00:38:26   This isn't like coming this fall,

00:38:29   but I think it makes a lot of sense.

00:38:32   Federico, what do you think?

00:38:34   - Yeah, this is fun.

00:38:35   I actually remember talking about this idea

00:38:37   in a briefing at WWDC many, many years ago,

00:38:42   like throwing around the idea of like,

00:38:43   yeah, I would actually love a bigger iPad Pro.

00:38:46   And I still believe that--

00:38:48   - So you're saying you're responsible,

00:38:50   is that what you're saying?

00:38:51   You're responsible for this?

00:38:52   - Look, I'm responsible for many things, all right?

00:38:54   - Okay, all right.

00:38:56   - Maybe this is one of them, I don't know.

00:38:58   But no, seriously, I mean, if you're Apple,

00:39:00   you must be thinking about this sort of stuff, right?

00:39:04   Especially given the sort of direction

00:39:06   that they're going with iPadOS and multitasking.

00:39:09   I think it's one obvious idea would be,

00:39:13   well, we've built this new foundation in iPadOS 15.

00:39:17   Maybe we're even considering freeform multi-windowing now,

00:39:21   if you look at Quick Note,

00:39:22   we're gonna talk about that in a few minutes.

00:39:24   And I guess the obvious next step would be,

00:39:28   well, what if we took things a step further

00:39:32   and we made an even bigger iPad Pro

00:39:34   that allowed you to do more of that kind of multitasking.

00:39:38   So you could imagine multiple split views instead of just two

00:39:43   apps open at the same time, maybe even multiple floating

00:39:46   windows that you can resize like a picture-in-picture type

00:39:50   window.

00:39:51   And I think they should do this.

00:39:54   And it's fun to think about--

00:39:57   you look at Windows 11 and all the things

00:40:00   that Microsoft has been doing.

00:40:01   Microsoft has always been ahead of Apple

00:40:03   when it comes to multitasking and snapping and that sort of stuff.

00:40:07   And you look at Windows 11 and what they do with the snapping menu and all the multiple

00:40:10   layouts that you can choose from.

00:40:12   And that is exactly the kind of feature that I would love to have on iPadOS and that I

00:40:17   could also see, however, being somewhat tricky to get right on an 11-inch iPad or on a 12.9-inch

00:40:24   iPad Pro.

00:40:25   So bigger iPad, more freedom for snapping and split view layouts, and maybe even proper freeform windowing

00:40:35   that is not exactly like on Mac OS, but maybe inspired by the Mac, and more similar to what we have on iPad

00:40:45   with Quick Note in iPadOS 15 and Picture-in-Picture.

00:40:49   Yes, you can resize the window, but you have limited options.

00:40:53   You can throw it around, but it automatically docks to certain corners of the display.

00:40:58   So that kind of thing, I believe it will lend itself well to a bigger iPad Pro.

00:41:04   Now obviously the question is, well, how big do you want to go with an iPad that still

00:41:09   needs to remain an iPad, right?

00:41:11   We're not talking about a 20-inch iPad, right?

00:41:16   needs to remain a tablet that if you want you can detach from from the magic

00:41:21   keyboard and holding your hands. Does it though? Can't they just make a desktop

00:41:26   that runs iPadOS? Well sure. Is it called an iPad at that point? MacPad. Is it an

00:41:32   iPad? Like is it still a tablet? No, I think that one's taken. What about... I don't know. I don't have any other ideas.

00:41:43   Is that the end? We found the end of that joke.

00:41:45   iPad studio.

00:41:47   I don't know. I feel like...

00:41:49   So Myke and Jason actually talked about this in the latest episode of Upgrades.

00:41:52   Like, you could see how if they do this, they could potentially show it off in specific contexts, right?

00:41:59   Instead of... Like, if they announce a 15-inch or 16-inch iPad Pro,

00:42:03   instead of showing people holding this giant iPad with one hand,

00:42:07   you would show people using it on their lap and using the pencil.

00:42:10   I can barely hold the 12.9 with one hand.

00:42:12   Exactly. Exactly. But I feel like it would be also fine to say this is an iPad that you

00:42:21   can still use as an iPad, but it's more optimized for that kind of workflow, for that kind of

00:42:28   use case. Just like an iPad mini, it's not optimized for the kind of multitasking you

00:42:34   can do on an iPad Pro. And that is okay, because different sizes, different workflows, and

00:42:39   totally fine. So I think it's time to go bigger. We have small iPads, we have the

00:42:45   smallest iPad with the iPad mini and we could probably have a bigger iPad as

00:42:51   well. I would be into it because I used the 12.9 like it's a laptop anyway like

00:43:00   I could go to 14 I could go to 16 like that would I would be perfectly happy

00:43:06   happy with that. I would actually quite welcome it. Why not? I mean, you know, you say like

00:43:12   how much bigger is 14 than 12.9? I mean, it's bigger. Any more is more, right? Like you

00:43:18   just keep making these things bigger like they have in the past. Like we started out

00:43:22   with a 9.7 inch on the small version and now we're up to 11 and that's been a significant

00:43:30   difference over time. So I would very much welcome it going up to

00:43:34   say 15 inches or whatever. I think that would be great. Do you think they

00:43:39   would make it fit? I mean it would get physically bigger still, right? Like

00:43:42   they're probably gonna keep those bezels on the iPad. I don't imagine them

00:43:47   getting rid of them. No, I think you've got to have some place to tuck

00:43:51   face at it again too. And they want the bezels to be

00:43:56   be the same all the way around like I don't think they're gonna notch it so

00:43:59   well I mean eventually they're gonna be able to put the face ID under the

00:44:04   display so if that's a few years away yeah but I think even then you're gonna

00:44:08   have some sort of bezel I mean it could get smaller the thing that I really

00:44:13   wonder about in this is the opportunity for accessories like not the sad

00:44:20   docking thing that Federico has. A stand. Yeah. A proper stand. What does this look like if you

00:44:27   want to use it more like a desktop? Like that's the opportunity for Apple to do more stuff,

00:44:33   it's an opportunity for third parties to do more stuff, because the iPad has never really been that

00:44:37   good as a productivity device without something holding it up or having a keyboard on it. So I

00:44:43   think it would be really exciting to see like what that would be like, even if it wouldn't be for me,

00:44:48   I think it would be exciting to see what new things could happen in that space.

00:44:54   Apple have released 22 new Apple Watch bands, not for the Olympics, don't

00:45:03   get it twisted, they're just for the international love of sport of course.

00:45:09   Right, people love sports internationally. And now's the time to internationally

00:45:17   released some international bans. 14? These are obviously for the Olympics but

00:45:23   the expectation I guess is there is some kind of legal reason that without paying

00:45:28   the Olympic Committee a bunch of money they can't say it because they do they

00:45:32   really like it is they do some somersaults. There you go I'm keeping it in theme

00:45:36   here to get around not saying Olympics in this press release and Apple have

00:45:42   done this in previous times for the Olympics. I think in the past they have

00:45:47   actually said it's for the Olympics but they have this time you got to imagine

00:45:51   someone at Apple has been sitting on this for a year at this point, right? Like these were made a long time

00:45:58   ago and they're gonna have again app clips in the boxes so you can get your

00:46:04   Apple watch face that corresponds of it but if you on an iPhone go to the Apple

00:46:09   website there is somewhere you can get the watch faces from for the different

00:46:15   countries. Some of them look really good. I like them. Yeah, I do really want to

00:46:23   know what that looks like. Oh, we have this warehouse full of Apple Watch bands

00:46:26   and then the Olympics get put on hold for a year. It's like, uh, like now what?

00:46:32   You know, someone's job to like babysit those, but... One of my favorite things

00:46:38   about when they do this is the fact that they do tie it to countries because it

00:46:45   It is almost redundant how many red, white, and blue ones there are.

00:46:48   In various... right?

00:46:52   If they just made them the colors rather than saying that they're for a different...

00:46:56   like, so you got France, Great Britain, Italy, the USA, South Korea, and Russia.

00:47:06   They're all just red, white, and blue.

00:47:09   That's... well, Great Britain, I should say, rather than the UK.

00:47:13   the Mexican one is basically the Italian one as well.

00:47:16   Like if you're Italian and you want to buy a watch band

00:47:21   for your country, you can easily get either the Italian one

00:47:24   or the Mexican one.

00:47:25   And depending on your taste,

00:47:27   I think the Mexican one is actually better

00:47:29   because it's got the green. - It is kind of funny.

00:47:31   I know the Italian tie to blue in sports.

00:47:35   - Yes.

00:47:36   - But the Italian watch band

00:47:38   is predominantly a blue watch band.

00:47:40   - Yes.

00:47:40   - Which is a bold choice.

00:47:42   If you show it off to someone without telling them like what's the Italian one, I think

00:47:48   they would say the Mexican one is the Italian one.

00:47:51   Yeah, definitely.

00:47:52   Right?

00:47:53   Because it's the tricolor, right?

00:47:54   Like it's, well, whatever you would call it.

00:47:55   Do you call it the tricolor or is that just in France?

00:47:56   Yes, that's actually correct.

00:47:57   No, it's correct.

00:47:58   Okay.

00:47:59   It's very funny to me.

00:48:00   See, you know Europe, Myke, unlike somebody else.

00:48:05   I like the Netherlands one.

00:48:06   The Netherlands one's nice.

00:48:09   The New Zealand one is nice too.

00:48:11   The Greek one is nice.

00:48:12   just the blue and white vocal stripe and the Canadian one too I like. I think the

00:48:18   New Zealand face looks the best of all the faces. It's nice and simple right?

00:48:22   Yeah. Yeah it's fun. Go sports. I mean it's not the Winter Olympics. Hooray for

00:48:29   international sports happening at any point. Every four years international

00:48:35   sports happen. Unless there's a pandemic. Yes. I do love by the way that it

00:48:42   still called the 2020 Olympics.

00:48:44   What had to happen where they decided

00:48:48   they would keep it the same?

00:48:49   - I was talking about this with Sylvia a few days ago.

00:48:52   I think I read somewhere that one of the big issues

00:48:54   was that all the marketing material had been produced

00:48:58   and it would have been such a waste

00:49:02   of like to throw all of that away,

00:49:03   like from flyers and just, you know,

00:49:08   printed materials to all kinds of toys.

00:49:11   There's so much wasted anyway though because like we're in a completely different context.

00:49:15   Yeah I know.

00:49:16   Right like if you produced a like a thing and it showed like full stadiums like well

00:49:22   that's gonna be weird.

00:49:25   It's like when Apple shipped was it the iPhone 10s and it mentioned AirPower in the literature?

00:49:30   Same thing.

00:49:31   It's the same as like all of these are gonna have like a really weird date on them.

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00:51:38   - So the public beta is for iOS and iPadOS

00:51:42   were released today, just slightly before we recorded.

00:51:46   Federico published a big article

00:51:48   where and I think Federico actually wrote

00:51:51   his entire iOS review.

00:51:54   I will quote from Federico's article.

00:51:56   "If you're installing the iOS 15 public beta today

00:51:58   and wanna show it off to your friends,

00:52:00   know this live text in the camera and custom focus modes make for the best

00:52:04   demos followed by the new weather app and rethought multitasking controls on

00:52:08   iPad share play is neat but can feel already dated now that more countries

00:52:11   are rolling out vaccinations the new Safari needs some more work mail is

00:52:15   surprisingly unchanged despite the rise of remote work in the past year that's

00:52:19   how I describe iOS and iPadOS 15 in two sentences as of the first public beta

00:52:24   release today so wrap it up everyone yeah you got the summer off baby

00:52:28   Congrats! I'm done! Thank you, thank you. Well, that is actually like the, also the,

00:52:36   I think this article you're taking a look at a preview of what the review is going to

00:52:42   be like, right? Some of the themes that I shared.

00:52:46   Could we say that this is the public beta of Federico's iOS review?

00:52:50   Oh, man!

00:52:51   Yes! That is actually true! That is absolutely correct. Like, and we're going to talk about

00:52:57   this later because you're curious as to why I wanted to publish this story. But yeah,

00:53:02   this is a preview of what I've been working on and sort of how I'm approaching these updates.

00:53:09   And I think actually looking through some of the other stories that I saw on other websites

00:53:13   today, I feel like this is more or less the consensus right now. Like, these updates are

00:53:20   a grab bag of features, and there's not a single big thing that is the obvious one to

00:53:26   to say, "Yeah, iOS 15 has this thing."

00:53:29   Like you could have said, "13, dark mode, iOS 14, widgets."

00:53:34   And you usually have that kind of big feature

00:53:37   that you explain to someone who doesn't follow tech news.

00:53:41   In this case, you have a bunch of smaller things

00:53:44   and some of them are pretty good.

00:53:46   Some of them feel already old.

00:53:49   And some of them, they are gonna need a lot more work,

00:53:52   like Safari.

00:53:53   Did we know at the time that it was widgets last year?

00:53:58   - Well, we had a feeling that it was gonna be the thing

00:54:03   for developers to focus on,

00:54:05   and it was like gonna be the feature to talk about.

00:54:07   And at least personally, that's why I spent,

00:54:11   like the home screen chapter is the one

00:54:13   that I spent the most time on in my review last year.

00:54:16   We did not expect the sort of home screen aesthetic

00:54:21   viral thing. Thanks David. Yeah but also when it happened like we were surprised

00:54:29   but we understood why like yeah I guess you know this is fun to play around with. I think the surprise was it was just weird for

00:54:36   something that the nerds are so excited about for everyone to also be excited

00:54:40   about it. I wonder what that'll do to the adoption rate you know 14 had a really

00:54:45   good adoption curve as opposed to 13 which had a really rough start and I

00:54:49   think a pretty bad reputation pretty early on but now with 15 assuming it goes

00:54:54   well and it's not a buggy stew of sadness when it comes out like will

00:55:02   people be willing to update for a new feature I'm not sure there's anything in

00:55:06   here like widgets I'm not sure the last time there was something like widgets

00:55:10   it's usually emoji right which comes later it's like the thing that people

00:55:14   update for... I don't think that... I can't recall an operating system feature that

00:55:20   went viral other than widgets. I don't think that that has been a normal

00:55:25   thing. I will actually ask you now, because we kind of... I want to drill into

00:55:30   a little bit about some of the stuff that you were talking about Federico,

00:55:32   but why have you like written this story? Isn't it taking time off from writing

00:55:38   the review, which ultimately is the most important thing for you to be doing

00:55:41   right now? Right, well first of all I put this together in a couple of days so

00:55:47   though I was really happy about that I was able to make it happen on a

00:55:51   relatively short notice but also like you know like every I mean yeah a couple

00:55:58   of days is a couple of days but like if that's half a week it's not that many

00:56:02   weeks yeah I know September middle of September you know it comes up fast I'm

00:56:06   saying this is someone as if they you don't know how fast it is September

00:56:11   But you know the thing is though that a lot of the a lot of the sections that I've shared here

00:56:17   And I've done this before

00:56:19   Nobody ever notices, and if they do they understand like a lot of this stuff

00:56:24   I am going to reuse and I'm going to recycle in the review, so it's like

00:56:28   Yeah, technically I haven't written the review this past couple of days

00:56:33   But also I also kind of did because most of these sections

00:56:37   I will incorporate in the main story and I will update them and I will revise them, I will dig deeper into some aspects

00:56:44   but the sort of the core structure of things like focus, for example, and iPad multitasking, like all of that

00:56:51   I can reuse and I can expand upon, but the work is already done, right? So,

00:56:56   I actually have a note in Obsidian called "Sections I can reuse" and that contains

00:57:03   links to things that I'm working on this summer, like in Maxories Weekly for example, or in this case this article,

00:57:10   that when the time comes that I'm gonna be working on those chapters, I will be cutting and pasting and

00:57:17   going from there. I guess maybe that's like the

00:57:21   factual parts, right? Like the opinion part could change, or might not, but could change, right?

00:57:27   honestly, the main risk with this story was how much time do I want to spend talking about Safari?

00:57:34   Because I feel like that's the one feature that could change a lot. And that technically,

00:57:39   to your point, could mean wasted time right now while I should be focusing on the review.

00:57:43   But then I also thought, well, if I have a chance to somewhat influence some changes right now

00:57:52   in Safari because I really care about Safari, then I guess I should share my opinion. You know,

00:57:57   besides the podcast, like, I should have a place on Mac Stories where, you know, maybe somebody at

00:58:02   Apple can go and be like, "Hey, look at this guy. He doesn't like this feature in Safari."

00:58:06   So I thought maybe if it's useful to have it on the record on Mac Stories, I want to just point

00:58:14   out and have a list of all the things that aren't working for me right now. Is that also part of the

00:58:20   thinking behind the section I really enjoyed, which was what I'd like to see

00:58:24   improved for each portion. Yes, so I thought what could be...

00:58:30   So I went about those sections in two ways. One, I want to make it easier for

00:58:36   people who maybe may have the power to affect some change. I wanted to make it

00:58:42   easier to see a list of things, like a bullet list of things I do not like.

00:58:48   But also I thought it could be easier and also fun to take a look at these

00:58:56   bullet points in a few months, right, and do a comparison of like what's changed

00:59:02   in the in the final release of iOS 15. And so it's for me and for other

00:59:08   people as well. And also like it's a public beta, so like I wanted to make it

00:59:13   easier to... you know, I have the story and all the sections and the

00:59:19   opinions and all that, but also have a quick actionable place where you

00:59:24   can go and see the things I don't like. Yeah, I think that was a really smart way

00:59:28   of doing it as opposed to having it all as just one big thing. Wall of text, yes.

00:59:35   Right, and I think especially with Safari, there are going to be people who download

00:59:39   the public beta and freak out about how safari is and so having that available to them is

00:59:45   good.

00:59:46   I guess it also is fun in a way, not that I'm saying you would do this of course Federico,

00:59:52   but it's fun in a way to as things change if they do change stuff you can point, someone

00:59:57   could point to your article and be like "see I told you."

01:00:00   No bragging rights.

01:00:01   Not that you would do that.

01:00:02   No I would do that.

01:00:03   No I would do that.

01:00:04   No I would do that.

01:00:05   No I would do that.

01:00:06   No I don't care.

01:00:07   I mean come on.

01:00:08   I mean, I've done the work and I believe in my opinions, so why not?

01:00:13   So you broke this down into three main sections you were covering, which are arguably, or

01:00:19   maybe not even arguably, the main areas of change.

01:00:22   Focus, Safari, and iPadOS multitasking.

01:00:25   I guess I honestly do think SharePlay could be more of a thing, but we haven't really

01:00:30   been able to experience all that SharePlay can do yet.

01:00:33   Like this might be a thing that we need to wait a bit more time to see, for you to at

01:00:37   at least you would need to wait a bit more time

01:00:39   to get some apps.

01:00:40   - I'm very skeptical about that.

01:00:41   Like, I think it's technically impressive,

01:00:44   but the more time I spend looking at it

01:00:49   and talking to developers who are building SharePlay apps,

01:00:53   the more I feel like I'm living through the summer

01:00:57   of iOS 10 again, and with iMessage apps.

01:01:02   I am really getting that kind of vibe.

01:01:05   - Really?

01:01:05   Yeah, I think it's technically impressive, it's really cool.

01:01:10   Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think this will catch on, really.

01:01:17   I'm hoping to see some interesting collaboration things built out of the technology.

01:01:24   OK, so here's the thing.

01:01:25   If you want to use collaborative software, do you really want to be on a FaceTime call every single time?

01:01:32   Do you always have to be on a FaceTime call?

01:01:34   I thought there was that whiteboard app that everyone keeps talking about that they demoed

01:01:37   in a thing. Was that on a FaceTime call?

01:01:40   I think they always have to be initiated via FaceTime, right?

01:01:45   I have no idea. If that's the case, then I don't want anything to do with it.

01:01:50   That's my main issue with it. I believe SharePlay needs to be initiated from the FaceTime call,

01:01:56   whether it's audio or video, but you need to be on a FaceTime call.

01:01:59   I think so.

01:02:00   it's not like Google Docs collaboration

01:02:03   or Apple Notes collaboration.

01:02:05   - Right, okay.

01:02:06   - SharePlay is part of FaceTime,

01:02:08   which is why I don't wanna be on a call every single time.

01:02:13   And I may be wrong, again,

01:02:16   developers have been able to submit SharePlay betas

01:02:18   as of last night, I believe.

01:02:20   And I haven't written the SharePlay chapter

01:02:24   of my review yet, so I may be wrong.

01:02:26   But I also, I'm pretty sure that it's all based

01:02:30   FaceTime. So... But anyway, the areas that you focus on focus is one of the focus points.

01:02:36   I'm excited about this feature. I haven't really spent the time setting stuff up properly yet

01:02:41   because I only have focus. I only have iOS 15, iPadOS 15 on my iPad. I feel like until I put it

01:02:49   on my iPhone, I'm going to wait to really spend the time setting up properly. So far, have you

01:02:56   been enjoying having like a focus mode for your iOS review?

01:03:00   Has it been beneficial to you?

01:03:02   Yeah, it's been great.

01:03:03   And it's been especially nice on iPad, where with the focus

01:03:07   mode, you can obviously silence notifications,

01:03:11   but also you can combine hiding other home screen pages, right?

01:03:16   And I can also run shortcuts automatically

01:03:19   when a specific focus is triggered.

01:03:22   So that combination of, like, you enable a specific focus in Control Center and multiple things happen,

01:03:29   that's been really beneficial to me. So that when I turn on the iOS Review Focus,

01:03:34   I see my iOS Review home screen and a Timery shortcut is activated so that I can start a timer

01:03:41   in toggle. So that's been really helpful, and I'm actually thinking about other home screens

01:03:49   based along this idea, like maybe a music home screen could be fun, like when I'm sitting down

01:03:54   and then listening to music with my Sony headphones and either an audio player or

01:04:00   lossless in Apple music, maybe I could have a music home screen with a bunch of music widgets

01:04:05   and you know that kind of stuff. I'm exploring that idea, yeah.

01:04:08   I love how it can be tied into shortcuts. Yeah. Like it's so obvious, you know, like when you

01:04:16   it's like that makes so much sense that as well as at having like a special home screen

01:04:21   it could also just do things on the device for you. I'm into that, like I think that

01:04:26   that's really smart. And I also like that it's two-way, right? That it can trigger some

01:04:31   shortcuts when you turn it on, right? Or shortcuts can turn one on. If that makes sense. Like

01:04:39   it's in two different ways it can be used. Yes. Which is cool. Yeah, that is really cool.

01:04:44   And I think it, I think that makes it more likely that more people will use it as opposed

01:04:49   to like it's a manual thing you forget all the time.

01:04:52   Anything you can automate that way is better.

01:04:55   I'm curious though, because this is much more up the alley of the two of you than it is

01:05:00   me.

01:05:02   Is this something like you will have something in use all the time, something that you will

01:05:06   just have under certain circumstances?

01:05:08   Like what have you learned about it and how you may use it so far?

01:05:11   Well, I think for focus I prefer to activate it when I'm working, like for sure.

01:05:18   Especially when I'm writing, and I need to just... I really need to concentrate and just

01:05:26   think about writing, whether it's the review or the newsletter or max stories,

01:05:31   that's been really helpful. I created my own driving focus because I didn't like the default

01:05:38   one, like for example with the default driving mode, it disables interactions

01:05:43   altogether on the iPhone. And I'm not saying that I want to use my iPhone while

01:05:48   I'm driving, but that also means that my girlfriend needs to confirm every single

01:05:52   time, like I'm not driving, let me use this iPhone if she wants to control

01:05:56   music on my device, which is connected to Bluetooth. And also if I'm

01:06:02   waiting at a stop because I got a red light for example I need to say I'm not

01:06:08   driving but I'm still technically driving so I think that's a bit

01:06:13   tiresome after a while so I created my own driving

01:06:17   focus that basically does all the things that the Apple one does but it doesn't

01:06:22   have the disabling interactions on the lock screen. And the other modes... so I

01:06:30   I was thinking a few days ago, like, I could have a beach mode, for example, where when

01:06:36   I turn on--and I haven't built this yet, but I think I will--where I could use focus not

01:06:42   necessarily to silence notifications, but as a trigger for other things.

01:06:48   So like enabling low-power mode, for example.

01:06:52   Switching off the 5G network, because I don't have 5G at the beach, despite being vaccinated.

01:06:59   it. And, you know, so basically using Focus as a manual trigger for contextual changes

01:07:10   that I want to apply to my iPhone. I am also not the kind of person who is going to keep

01:07:15   Do Not Disturb enabled at all times during the day, right? If I'm browsing Twitter or

01:07:21   Or if I'm doing email, not that kind of creative work, it's fine if I get notifications.

01:07:29   So for me, I think on a regular basis, I'm mostly going to enable it when I'm writing.

01:07:36   Even when I'm recording podcasts, for example, I need to be able to see notifications if

01:07:40   something happens.

01:07:41   Like if my dogs do something in the other room and I have a HomeKit camera, or if Sylvia

01:07:46   is texting me.

01:07:48   I need to be able to get alerts when I'm doing a podcast.

01:07:51   But when I'm doing creative work, that's when I want to block distractions.

01:07:56   So for me, it is what you just said, which is what I like.

01:08:00   So at the moment, all I have is all notifications of Do Not Disturb.

01:08:05   And my plan is to make some focus modes for certain things.

01:08:09   Like I would have a recording podcast focus mode, which would allow certain notifications

01:08:15   to come through.

01:08:16   It's like I have Do Not Disturb on my iMac all the time,

01:08:20   so I'm not getting all kinds of notifications

01:08:22   while we're recording, so I'm not distracted.

01:08:25   But it could mean that I miss something important.

01:08:28   Like, if one of you needs to tell me something

01:08:30   during the show, I just have to hope I'm going to see it, right?

01:08:34   Like, randomly, because I noticed

01:08:36   that the iMessage thing is ticking up, right?

01:08:39   Like, the badge on the app icon.

01:08:42   But what I would really like is on my Mac for, say,

01:08:45   are group thread on iMessage to actually be able to notify me rather than then and then

01:08:51   also being able to get rid of messages from everybody else during that period of time

01:08:54   you know. So for me like I'm gonna be pretty granular I think and I'm gonna set up a bunch.

01:09:00   I'm not gonna have I think it sync across all my devices so like I leave my iPads in

01:09:08   do not disturb all the time. Same. Because I just don't need that but that means like

01:09:13   you know I can't have those sync so like for example I may just set up like an

01:09:16   iPad focus mode and just put both of my iPads on that one right for example or

01:09:21   something like that so I'm really into it but one of the other things which is

01:09:25   super cool about it is the home screen things like you're saying about the

01:09:28   beach right that there might be a certain set of apps which are like more

01:09:31   helpful for you to have right there on the home screen when you're at the beach

01:09:35   or widgets or whatever so all of that stuff is like it's awesome I think yeah

01:09:41   that has impressed me about it so far is how deep the customization seems to be and I think we could debate and and I

01:09:49   suspect that you will

01:09:51   in the review about

01:09:53   Sort of the opt-in versus opt-out and type of settings you have like I think it could be even

01:09:59   Easier in some ways, but the fact that it touches home screen changes

01:10:05   Which we saw show up last year for the first time the fact that it sinks across like

01:10:09   It's a new feature, but it's taking advantage

01:10:12   of other features that Apple already has had.

01:10:14   And I like when they are able to build on

01:10:17   what they've had in the past.

01:10:19   Sometimes Apple has something come out and it's like,

01:10:22   "Well, this is connected to this other thing,

01:10:24   but you didn't hook it up.

01:10:26   Why aren't these things talking to each other?"

01:10:28   And with this, it feels like focus is really thought through

01:10:32   across all the different platforms and features

01:10:35   where it makes sense.

01:10:36   - Even the fact that you can,

01:10:38   applications can make it so like if you if Steven messaged me on slack it would

01:10:43   still come through for example because it's still Steven. Yeah hopefully they do

01:10:47   that. Although I don't exactly know how that works yeah no that is a thing that

01:10:51   can happen. Oh I know I know I'm saying hopefully slack takes advantage of that

01:10:54   because. Yeah I don't really know how that works but that's not for me to know.

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01:12:58   of the show and Relay FM. Safari, I mean I've read your article so I know the answer to this,

01:13:05   but any change in feelings? There's a few things that I like in the new Safari, right?

01:13:13   the start page extensions, well, the fact that the tab view is now a grid view, I think that's really,

01:13:23   that's so much better than iOS 14. But the more I use Safari, the more I feel like,

01:13:28   especially on the iPhone, I think we mentioned this before, I feel like the iPad version

01:13:33   is somewhere in the middle. I know that Steven also has a lot of opinions about Safari on the Mac,

01:13:40   and I feel like Safari on the iPhone, the more I use it, the more I keep coming to the same conclusion.

01:13:47   I got one positive change out of this, which is, yeah, I have an address bar at the bottom,

01:13:55   and that's easier to reach. But because of that single positive change, there's a whole list of

01:14:04   negative changes, right? A whole list of trade-offs that needed to happen in order to make that design

01:14:11   possible. And it's been three weeks, right? So you will hope that if the argument was "it's just a

01:14:20   matter of muscle memory," you will hope that in almost a month, since I've been using this, I

01:14:26   will get the hang of it, and I will be used to it at this point, especially because I'm really using

01:14:31   it, and I'm taking notes, and I'm writing about it, and I'm using it every day. But every time I use

01:14:36   it, I'm like, man, I really don't like this. Like, yeah, it's easier to reach, but everything else

01:14:42   is, at least for me, worse than before. And I pick up my XS Max running iOS 14, which is my test

01:14:51   device for the old OS, and I look at Safari, and I'm like, you know, the address bar is at the top,

01:14:57   but everything else is so much nicer. I got proper navigation arrows and a share button

01:15:02   and a reload button, and I got a pop-up menu for website settings. Everything is in its right place,

01:15:08   and I don't have to go hunt down things in secret menus or via hidden gestures. And so I have to

01:15:16   wonder, which is also what I wrote in the story, I have to wonder, is it really worth it to accept

01:15:25   all these trade-offs just to have that unified address bar at the bottom. And that's on the

01:15:31   iPhone. On the iPad you could also say it's somewhat better because you have a sidebar

01:15:37   that makes access to certain features easier, because they're right there in the sidebar,

01:15:42   but that tab view on iPad with the unified design where the current tab is also the address bar

01:15:50   and you don't have the separation between tabs and address bar anymore,

01:15:54   that's also really rough. And again, I wonder, sure, I've probably gained like 20, 30 pixels

01:16:04   on web pages, right? I see 20 more vertical pixels on a web page, but everything else is so much

01:16:12   worse than before. Is that really worth it? And I'm not sure the answer is yes. I don't think the

01:16:18   answer is yes. Now, I also feel like Apple really believes in this design, and I mean,

01:16:26   you can tell because they also did a WWDC session about designing for the new Safari.

01:16:31   That's usually not a good sign as to how much things can change, right? I mean, the company

01:16:36   did a session about it, and they have documentation, so...

01:16:40   That's what I keep thinking about, like, if they change it, does that session just, like,

01:16:43   quietly go away? It's like, "It is never here!"

01:16:46   Do you just invalidate the session? So maybe the solution is just make it a setting.

01:16:53   And I know that it's not an attractive proposition.

01:16:57   Well, there's no point keeping it if you make it a setting.

01:17:00   Well, maybe some folks like the address bar at the bottom.

01:17:04   Maybe some folks don't want to have this standalone address bar.

01:17:08   I don't think this is the kind of thing where a single universal design completes everyone.

01:17:15   No, they're gonna choose, in my opinion, they choose a route.

01:17:19   They stick to what they're doing now, or they refine what they're doing now, or they go back.

01:17:23   Because stuff like the fact that they want the entire web to redesign to deal with this,

01:17:30   they're not gonna get that if you can turn it off, right?

01:17:35   I would be really surprised if they made any of the Safari UI stuff a setting.

01:17:41   Like I cannot imagine that being a thing that they would do.

01:17:45   well then I guess...

01:17:46   they're just gonna make you like it right?

01:17:48   or you know as in like you're just gonna have to deal with it

01:17:51   or they'll change it

01:17:53   honestly I think that's what's gonna happen realistically

01:17:57   they're just gonna listen to feedback, apply some changes

01:18:01   like maybe the reload button will come back

01:18:03   maybe you know the largest part...

01:18:06   that's just part of the way there right?

01:18:07   so iPadOS and MacOS beta 2 have brought the reload button back in some way

01:18:12   on hover yeah

01:18:13   Yeah.

01:18:14   Kind of.

01:18:15   They kind of brought it back.

01:18:17   But yeah, I think you're right.

01:18:19   I don't think they're going to make it a setting.

01:18:21   I think they're just going to force us to use this for a year until, you know, maybe

01:18:28   actually we'll see another replica of what happened with Mail, where they tried to force

01:18:34   us to use the Simplified toolbar in Apple Mail, and as soon as they pushed it out to

01:18:40   public release, everybody started complaining like, "I don't know how to archive my mail

01:18:45   anymore. I don't know how to reply to mail anymore." And they needed to change that in

01:18:49   the next bit. What was that? iOS 13, I think, or 14?

01:18:52   Yeah, everything was just behind the reply button.

01:18:55   Yeah.

01:18:56   And a lot of stuff still is. They moved like two things out of it. So I think if that's

01:19:02   the recipe, then we'll see a couple of minor Safari changes. I think mostly on the iPhone,

01:19:07   I agree with you. I think that's where it's the worst and yeah, but the rest of us here to stay

01:19:12   I can tell you I

01:19:14   Gave my iPhone to see you a few days ago because I asked her can you look up something on Google and she opened Safari?

01:19:20   And I could tell that she didn't know what to do because she just kept staring at the phone and I was like oh

01:19:26   Yeah, that's the new Safari and she the only thing she said was I hate it. So

01:19:34   She's got a pretty good sense of how the general public sees these things.

01:19:41   I want to see how this goes, honestly.

01:19:43   This is why they do the public beta, though, right?

01:19:46   Still, regular people don't install the public beta.

01:19:49   Right? It's still like tech.

01:19:51   I think it's more than you think, man.

01:19:53   Yeah, they gave a number a couple of years ago, and it was millions and millions of users.

01:19:59   I mean, it wasn't a billion, but it's more than just the connected audience.

01:20:04   There is a like there's like expanding circles of people and like there are people that are quote

01:20:12   interested in technology that we would consider general users right because they're not listening

01:20:21   to this show or any tech podcast but they love gadgets we've all met these people in our lives

01:20:26   right people who love gadgets like the type of person that will say to you oh man Apple sucks

01:20:32   for all these reasons and you know like you like or like hey do you know I was

01:20:37   reading do you know that Apple plans for their devices to go obsolete you know

01:20:43   we've all met these people right like it's that kind of user who I think is

01:20:48   still more of a general user but they are interested in technology and I think

01:20:54   that is a very large amount of people and they're gonna be as upset about

01:21:00   Safari as probably you and every other user in the world. Well, maybe if they work harder, they'll become Admiral users

01:21:06   That's good. Not just general users. That's really good. We'll see. We'll see

01:21:11   I wonder if those people also file feedback that Apple sees and act upon like there's also a conversation to be had here

01:21:19   Yeah, what what's the feedback like what's Apple's relationship to feedback in this case my expectation?

01:21:26   With the public beta is Apple pays attention to what is trending on Twitter? I hope so

01:21:32   Yeah, so with our look it'll trend the day iOS 15 comes out. I mean

01:21:37   Yeah, Safari's got to be in the top

01:21:40   Three or four most used apps on the phone, but people are gonna freak out

01:21:45   Especially because this tab design and this layout isn't anywhere else

01:21:50   It's not like messages and mail and files

01:21:54   Got all this like stuff at the bottom and doing all these weirdo slidey things like it's just Safari

01:22:00   if it were everywhere, maybe people would be

01:22:03   Less

01:22:06   Upset about it or like upset in a different way. That's a really good point Steven. Why is only Safari like this?

01:22:13   Mm-hmm. Give me those tabs and finder. No, I was kidding. Please. Please don't Apple. Please don't but just like

01:22:18   Also, just like moving the most important UI to the bottom

01:22:22   Yeah, well, and they've done it in Apple Maps, but Apple Maps looks totally different from

01:22:25   Safari. It's like, pick a lane.

01:22:27   Honestly, you want to hear my opinion on this?

01:22:30   Yes.

01:22:31   This to me feels like the kind of thing where someone in design spent a lot of time using

01:22:38   Safari on the iPhone last year, and they decided, "You know what? I think we need to put this

01:22:44   at the bottom, because I think it's harder for me to use." I'm not convinced that a lot

01:22:50   of engineers in the Safari team like the new Safari. But it's just how these things go,

01:22:56   you know? You're told high up enough. You're told that you need to ship a certain design,

01:23:02   and that's just what you gotta do, and then maybe you don't like it, and maybe you try

01:23:07   to work things out with your manager, right? And you tell them, "Look, this is bad for

01:23:12   this and these reasons, but that manager needs to go to another manager." You know? You know

01:23:17   know how these companies work, Myke, you worked in a big company. And it's like sometimes

01:23:22   someone high up makes a decision and it trickles down and you just got to make it happen. And

01:23:28   but this is why we this is why we do podcasts. This is why we write articles. This is why

01:23:33   I do the bullet list, right? To try and and sway opinions in certain directions when I

01:23:39   believe that things are not good enough. And and this really honestly this really sucks

01:23:46   for me because I really love Safari, and I really like... I know a lot of people who

01:23:50   work on Safari, and they're really smart people, and Safari has always been like one of the

01:23:56   few apps that I take out from my apps chapter, and I make it a standalone chapter in my review.

01:24:03   That's how much I care about Safari, because I really use Safari a lot. But this is not

01:24:09   good enough. I don't know. I don't know.

01:24:13   In iPad OS multitasking, I would like to take a moment here to talk about a regression in

01:24:17   beta 2 that I'm really upset about.

01:24:19   So in beta 1, there were two keyboard shortcuts that you could use.

01:24:25   One to replace the app on the left and one to replace the app on the right.

01:24:29   These have been replaced now with one keyboard shortcut, which replaces the app that you're

01:24:34   currently focused on, which isn't always as clear as it seems.

01:24:39   You might want to replace the app on the left and you do like globe another key down and

01:24:47   it replaces whatever app the iPadOS thinks is in focus.

01:24:52   That might not be the one that you wanted to change.

01:24:56   So I think they've made a mistake here with this change because they have, when you only

01:25:02   have one app open, there is two keyboard shortcuts, tile window left and tile window right.

01:25:08   you can pick the other one. But then when you have two open, it goes to one keyboard

01:25:12   shortcut which is replace app. And I don't understand why they've done this. Because

01:25:19   then the tile window left and tile window right ones, the new ones, what they let you

01:25:24   do is flip the apps that you're using. Right? So the left one becomes the right one, the

01:25:29   right one becomes the left one. It feels like that they have made it both more simple and

01:25:33   more complicated than it was in beta 1 and I don't understand why they've done this.

01:25:38   So what you're asking for is to restore separate keyboard shortcuts for replacing the app on

01:25:47   either side. So replace app on the left, replace app on the right.

01:25:51   Yeah, I mean it's just "tile window left" and "tile window right", but always.

01:25:56   Which is what it was before. But now, when you have two apps open, "tile window left"

01:26:00   and tile window right, those keyboard shortcuts do a different thing, which is flip the apps

01:26:06   around.

01:26:07   Right, right.

01:26:08   And I don't really know why you'd do that.

01:26:09   I feel like these keyboard commands that you're asking for, they should exist, and you could

01:26:14   potentially also combine them with Spotlight, right?

01:26:17   So you could see how, because right now, and I wrote about this in the story, right now,

01:26:22   if you want to bring in a different app into a split view using search, you need to kind

01:26:27   do it backwards, which is first you need to tile a window and then you need to search.

01:26:34   Whereas I think it would be much easier to just say "let me search, let me highlight

01:26:39   the app I want to use" and then let me press a keyboard command to say "put this on the

01:26:44   left" or "put this on the right".

01:26:46   I hope the reason that they have changed the shortcuts is because they're working on that

01:26:51   feature.

01:26:52   Yeah.

01:26:53   That's what I hope.

01:26:54   But that is a hope.

01:26:55   But at the moment it seems like they have I think made it more complicated and not as

01:27:01   useful as it was in beta 1.

01:27:03   Where you could have a reliable shortcut, a keyboard shortcut that did the reliable

01:27:08   thing every time.

01:27:09   You did the one for left and you changed the app on the left, you did the one for right

01:27:12   and you changed the app on the right.

01:27:14   Where now you can do that when you have one app open but then when you have two app opens

01:27:18   it just swaps the apps around.

01:27:19   Which doesn't make any sense to me.

01:27:21   And then you have to do a different keyboard shortcut to replace one of the apps but the

01:27:24   app that, but whenever you hit that you have to already know which app is in focus, which is not

01:27:29   an easy thing to do still on iPadOS, or it can be easy to know which is in focus, but to get the

01:27:35   iPadOS to change which app it thinks is the focused app is still a problem. I still kind of wish that

01:27:42   there was a like an accessibility setting to make the active app indicator more visually prominent.

01:27:49   So, like, I think a really good example here is Obsidian. When you open multiple notes and you have

01:27:56   multiple panes open in Obsidian, you get this thin colored bar right underneath the title bar.

01:28:06   And that's really helpful because it's like a highlight for the active note, right?

01:28:14   And I kind of would like to see that, like colored highlights,

01:28:20   like something else besides the little pill-shaped indicator

01:28:25   that gets slightly darker for the active application

01:28:29   in the split view.

01:28:31   I still feel like that should be more visually obvious as to

01:28:35   which app of the two is the active one.

01:28:37   I'm going to see how this goes.

01:28:39   I think if it's not changed in the next beta,

01:28:41   I'll file the feedback.

01:28:42   because this is a particularly difficult one for me to try and explain in a feedback because

01:28:47   it's complicated and also I don't remember what the previous shortcuts were, right? So

01:28:53   like to try and explain it is complicated. I did file one feedback, remember I think

01:28:58   I was complaining about the fact that they broke indenting and out then or was it indent

01:29:02   left and indent right? They fixed it. They haven't updated my feedback but they fixed

01:29:07   it. So, hooray! You can't have everything you want, Myke. That's true. That's very true.

01:29:12   I can only get one thing at a time. That's right. So if I want indent, what is it indent left and indent right? Mm-hmm

01:29:19   I have to lose the multitasking shortcuts that I want. Yeah, you can only have one left to right feature

01:29:26   So too bad anything else in beta 2 we should talk about?

01:29:30   Maybe not today

01:29:33   Okay. Yeah, we will revisit this because we have a long summer of betas ahead of us

01:29:38   Until then if you want if we may have beta we may have beta 3 next week, so right

01:29:44   We'll see where they go back to Safari from iOS 7

01:29:46   You want it simple huh look honestly brushed metal Safari on the iPhone

01:29:52   Okay, I'm saying they have it somewhere on a hard drive

01:29:57   I will say Federico if they bring back that old tab view because of you. I'll never forgive you

01:30:03   No, you can keep the grid view. Look, it's not that difficult.

01:30:07   Literally every other iPhone browser does this. They have a button to open tabs

01:30:13   and when you click that you see a grid view. The grid view does not depend on the other things.

01:30:20   It's fine.

01:30:22   I see. Just like, "You don't want the new Safari features, huh? You don't get any of them. They're all gone."

01:30:28   All right well if you want to find links of stuff we spoke about including Federico's excellent overview of where

01:30:34   iOS and iPad OS 15 are

01:30:37   Check out our show notes this week. You can find those links on the web at relay.fm/connected/352

01:30:45   While you're there you can get in touch with feedback or follow up

01:30:49   There's an email link there on the side of the page, or you can do it on Twitter

01:30:53   You can find us all there Federico is there is Vitici V I T I CCI

01:30:57   of course he's the editor-in-chief of MacStories.net and hard at work on

01:31:02   reviews I know John is too so y'all are busy boys. You can find Myke on Twitter

01:31:08   as @imike Myke what's something else cool that you do? I would like to

01:31:15   recommend people go and listen to the most recent episode of The Test Drivers

01:31:19   where we interviewed Panos Panay who's the chief product officer at Microsoft

01:31:24   for Windows and devices. It was a really great interview. I really enjoyed it.

01:31:29   He's a cool guy. Very cool. You can find me on Twitter as ismh and my

01:31:35   writing over at 512pixels.net. If you like this show and looking for other

01:31:40   cool podcasts from Relay FM check out Make Do. You don't have to monetize your

01:31:45   hobbies but if you want to Make Do is ready to be your cheerleader in podcast

01:31:49   form. Listen as you work on your hobby with Tiff Armit and Julia Scott over

01:31:54   at relay.fm/makedoo or search for Make Do wherever you get your podcasts.

01:31:59   I'd like to thank Memberful, Hello, and OneBlocker for sponsoring this episode of

01:32:05   Connected and until next time guys say goodbye.

01:32:08   Adios, adios.

01:32:09   Cheerio.

01:32:10   Bye y'all.