0:00:00(upbeat music)
0:00:02Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 340.
0:00:12It's made possible by our sponsors,
0:00:14Hello, Smile, and Squarespace.
0:00:17My name is Stephen Hackett,
0:00:19and I'm joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci.
0:00:21- Hello, Stephen, how are you?
0:00:22Welcome back.
0:00:24- It is good to be back.
0:00:25I am well.
0:00:26Thank you all for holding down the fort last week.
0:00:28- How was your email?
0:00:29It's great. We will get into that. We have a lot of follow up.
0:00:32We are also joined by Mr. Myke Hurley.
0:00:36Arrivederci.
0:00:38That's not what you say when you say hi.
0:00:40That's literally goodbye. Why would you say goodbye?
0:00:44One and done today. I've cashed my check. I'm out of here.
0:00:48That was it. I put in my little moment.
0:00:52Myke, there's no check.
0:00:53Then I'll stick around.
0:00:55Alright, let's do the show then.
0:00:59follow up. We got a lot of email because you guys wanted people to email me, which I enjoy,
0:01:04and I really enjoyed this email from listener Carlos, who wrote in just to say
0:01:10that he missed me having on the episode. Carlos, right, quote-unquote Carlos.
0:01:17Yeah, everyone knows that Steven's middle name is Carlos.
0:01:20That's not true at all. Steve- Carlos is you, right?
0:01:22No. Steven Carlos Hackett.
0:01:24I mean, come on, it's fine, come on. No.
0:01:27We all know, it's really you. I'm pretty sure at some point you said to us years ago on iMessage
0:01:33that if you could have like a like a like a like an exotic name you would pick Carlos and now of
0:01:39all people who wrote in to say that they really miss Steven, Carlos wrote in? Sure. Carlos at
0:01:46512pixels dot net. Full URL there. It's like the name that Steven uses when he doesn't want to be
0:01:55recognized online? Carlos Voorhees. One true Carlos. One true Carlos. All right. We also
0:02:06got email from Jed about the shortcut URLs. Federico, can you take this one for us?
0:02:11I ask, Jed notes how last week we mentioned how Apple was never able to
0:02:18recover the old workflow dot is links for old workflows shared by people but
0:02:25But it turns out that there's sort of a workaround way to actually use those links still in 2021.
0:02:32And the way you do them is you've got to open them in a new or background tab in Safari
0:02:38or another browser on your device, and then it redirects you to the iCloud link.
0:02:44So it seems like if you tap those links directly, it takes you to shortcuts and it doesn't work
0:02:50anymore.
0:02:51you open in a background tab, it loads the web version of the link, and so it appears that
0:02:57Apple is still doing that migration from workflow.is to iCloud.com. So just make sure that you open
0:03:04them in a background tab, and from there you will get the installation button, the "Get Shortcut"
0:03:10button on the iCloud.com web page. Just remember, do not open those links in Shortcuts directly.
0:03:17So you can go back and visit one of my old workflow stories
0:03:20and you can still download those workflows as shortcuts.
0:03:23See, this feels like something that's going to stop working now because you mentioned it.
0:03:27Yes, yes.
0:03:28I don't know.
0:03:29Thank you, Jed.
0:03:31I feel like this is just one of those things where when it's trying to open the app automatically
0:03:37it's failing, right?
0:03:38So like these links do exist, it's just if it does the "oh now I'm going to open it in
0:03:44in the app, the app doesn't know what to do about it, even the link exists.
0:03:47Like, you know, like sometimes you would get this where you're trying to like,
0:03:50I don't know, open a YouTube video or whatever,
0:03:52and you don't want it to open in the YouTube app.
0:03:54So you just open it in the in like a tab and it stops from the what is that
0:03:58redirection called?
0:04:00You know, like when it when it opens up for you in the application
0:04:03instead of where you want it to go, like just in a web browser.
0:04:06Deep linking.
0:04:07Deep linking. There you go.
0:04:08Because that's what I think that's what this seems like, right?
0:04:10that this is an issue with workflow links, deep linking to shortcuts that don't work.
0:04:15Yeah, it looks like it. I have some real-time follow-up, guys.
0:04:20Amazing.
0:04:21iOS 14.5 Beta 7 is out. Also, watchOS 7.4, but all the Beta 7s are out today, which is
0:04:30just fantastic news for me because I took like 50 screenshots a few days ago. And now,
0:04:38I don't think I'm going to have to redo them. I think it's fine. I don't think there's going
0:04:44to be anything new in this beta either because they did the new Siri Voices last week. I
0:04:50believe 14.5 is coming out soon, so it's good that they're ramping up the beta releases.
0:04:54Did you see that Apple did a press release just before we began the show today about
0:05:00the title?
0:05:01For "Find My..." Yes. That is also something that Apple announced today. They had an official
0:05:07introduction for the third-party integrations in the Find My app. I only skinned the press
0:05:13release but it seems like Apple teamed up with a bunch of third-party manufacturers
0:05:17for all kinds of accessories, including Steven, a bike, I believe, that you will be able to...
0:05:24I think the official terminology is "locate with Apple Find My". There's an official badge
0:05:30and everything, so you will find this logo on this new accessories that say... the logo
0:05:36says locate with Apple Find My. Why isn't it find? Why not find with Find My? Like it's just
0:05:43that's more fun. Apple Find would have been nice as a name with Apple Find. I don't know what
0:05:49they must really like Find My. So yeah. VanMoofs S3 and X3 e-bikes, Belkin Soundform, Freedom True
0:05:58Wireless Earbuds and the Chipolo One Spot Item Finder. Just gonna say guys don't think there's
0:06:05been a great take-up. Did you say Chipotle? I know Chipotle. Yeah Chipotle. Where's my burrito?
0:06:12Find your burrito. I'm just gonna say don't think there's been a great take-up for the Find My
0:06:20program so far because this is a real ragtag group of stuff. I mean I kind of really want the Van Moof.
0:06:30Where can I shop VanMoof?
0:06:33Yeah, those bikes are sweet.
0:06:35I think that's very much clearly the winner of these, right?
0:06:39The VanMoof?
0:06:40Yeah, I mean, who's buying Belkin Soundform Freedom True
0:06:44wireless earbuds?
0:06:44You know John Gore, he's just going to buy them.
0:06:47You know he's going to do it.
0:06:48The Chipotle tracker doesn't ship until June.
0:06:50[LAUGHTER]
0:06:53And it's just one of these little tracking things.
0:06:56What is Chipolo?
0:06:57I've never heard of this company before.
0:06:59Chipolo, Chipolo they do, what do they do?
0:07:03- The finder with the reminder.
0:07:05This is, it seems like this is their whole thing.
0:07:07It's just--
0:07:08- We need a Chipolo one spot.
0:07:09A special edition of the, it's like a tile tracker?
0:07:13- Yeah, that's all it is.
0:07:14- Okay. - Yeah.
0:07:15- It's a tile tracker.
0:07:17- But it's just a company that doesn't care
0:07:20about having their own service, I guess.
0:07:22- Yeah.
0:07:23- They make no money on just selling you--
0:07:24- Life is messy, finding your things doesn't have to be--
0:07:26- They make a keyboard thing,
0:07:27have one that looks like a card but it looks like the one spot the keychain one is what's
0:07:34going to ship in june i mean maybe 14.5 is never coming out
0:07:38it's just gonna be in beta forever and then 14.6 is gonna happen all right i put my my email in
0:07:47their list to contact me when it's available i'm torn between buying the chipola one spot or the
0:07:53VanMoof, mostly because I really like saying VanMoof. Like it's a satisfying word to say.
0:08:01So well, the VanMoof X3 costs £1798, Federico, so choose your poison, really. I don't think
0:08:13the Chipolo is going to cost that money. I've bought headphone cables that cost that much.
0:08:17Nah, nah. No, don't say that. Don't say that.
0:08:20What do you mean don't say that? You said that. No one else said it.
0:08:24I was saying that to myself. I was reminding it to myself.
0:08:28Anyway, yes, that was a Realtime follow-up.
0:08:32Speaking of content creators and their money,
0:08:36Clubhouse is here to save us all. They announced
0:08:40the other day that they are going to be rolling out payments, which is monetization
0:08:44within Clubhouse. Basically, you can select
0:08:48a creator in Clubhouse and the amount that you want to send, you give Clubhouse your
0:08:54credit card number and they use Stripe and send the money to the creator. So it's not
0:09:00using in-app purchase or anything like that, it's just a credit card form in an app using
0:09:06Stripe which...
0:09:07An app only is okay with it?
0:09:08Well, see, that's the thing. It seems like they wouldn't be okay with this because it's
0:09:13basically bypassing their cut. So I don't know.
0:09:18Technically, this is a person-to-person payment because you don't get anything from what I
0:09:23can understand. So if I want to give Steven money in Clubhouse...
0:09:28Please.
0:09:29Okay. I don't get anything for it, right? Except for having given Steven some money.
0:09:35So it's not a digital good. There's no digital good that's been exchanged. I've just given
0:09:41him some money and if Clubhouse takes no money from it.
0:09:46So it's like a Venmo type thing which is like your...
0:09:49Yeah it's more like a person to person payment via Stripe.
0:09:54So like yeah it's kind of like I can buy things in other applications like I can in Instagram
0:10:01I can put my credit card number in in the web browser.
0:10:04Yeah same with the Amazon app.
0:10:06And so I don't know about this because I don't see what Apple could want to take money for.
0:10:16And you might think to yourself, "Hey, but what about Twitch?"
0:10:19But on Twitch, Amazon Twitch is taking money.
0:10:24And you also get benefits for subscribing to somebody on Twitch.
0:10:30You actually get stuff for that.
0:10:32So you think that's the line that if they were doing this and you could unlock special
0:10:36paid only streams, then maybe they'd run afoul of the rules?
0:10:40And or if Clubhouse took a cut.
0:10:41I think if Clubhouse took a cut, it would also have to go through a net purchase.
0:10:46But Clubhouse is taking no money, so there's no 30% to take from.
0:10:52This is an interesting line.
0:10:55It's publicized enough that Apple definitely know about it if they didn't before.
0:10:59They know about it now.
0:11:00I'm going to be keen to see what happens with this, but I can't see how they would...
0:11:07I don't know what argument Apple has for this.
0:11:10There's no digital good being exchanged of any kind here, from what I can see.
0:11:14Okay, but I mean, at this point, the real question is, which one of these growth hackers
0:11:19do we want to support on Clubhouse?
0:11:22Whichever one's the best one, I guess, so we can hack our growth most efficiently.
0:11:27I kinda wanna give my money to a bunch of those people
0:11:29but like, one dollar? Can you send one dollar to a Clubhouse growth hacker?
0:11:35Probably.
0:11:36Cool.
0:11:37They're rolling this out at the moment, like anyone can pay
0:11:41but only a certain select amount can actually receive money if that makes sense
0:11:45so, you know Federico you could go find your favorite growth hacker
0:11:48but it has to be one of your favorite growth hackers who's part of the Clubhouse club
0:11:53I only tip my favorites
0:11:55Absolutely, yes. Well, I can do it now because my iPhone is rebooting to install the beta,
0:12:00but I will do it as soon as it's back. Myke, can you close out the story of the AirPods Max?
0:12:06Yeah, actually, because the battery life problem seems to have been completely solved.
0:12:10Sweet! Like, I've left, I left my AirPods for a week, like, just purposely, just left them,
0:12:16and they, I don't remember where I started and where I ended up, that wasn't the thing,
0:12:20because basically if I would have done that before, it would 100% have been dead,
0:12:23and there was still battery life. Like I picked them up today, I hadn't touched them for a week,
0:12:27I had 60% battery, I hadn't charged them. So I believe that the firmware update from a couple
0:12:34of weeks ago or a month or so ago has fixed all of the battery life issues that I was having with
0:12:39the AirPods Max. And so now I am enjoying them again because I didn't really want to say this
0:12:43at the time but I'd stopped using them because they were so frustrating to me. But now this week
0:12:48I've been using them again because I don't feel like I'm playing Russian Roulette with the battery
0:12:53every time I pick them up. So I'm very pleased that my expensive, but I think very nice earphones,
0:13:00AirPods, whatever they're called, are working again. I never stopped using them, but I also
0:13:06noticed the battery life improvement. So yes, I'm very happy with them. Yeah, I had like a bad taste
0:13:13from them, you know what I mean? Like it was just like, I didn't, I wasn't enjoying the product
0:13:19because every time I was picking them up I was getting angry about it.
0:13:21So I just stopped using them for a bit.
0:13:23But now I'm back on the AirPods Max train again.
0:13:28- Nice.
0:13:29Cool.
0:13:30I'm glad it fixed it.
0:13:31- Yeah, I'm just happy that it wasn't like a hardware flaw, it seems like.
0:13:36Because that was my concern, right?
0:13:37Like my theory was it was the proximity sensors.
0:13:40I still think it might have been the proximity sensors that were causing the issue,
0:13:43but they seem to have done something in the firmware that has changed,
0:13:47I guess the way that they're being, that's the way something's working anyway, so I'm pleased.
0:13:52I have some real-time breaking news.
0:13:55Okay.
0:13:55Breaking news.
0:13:56Breaking news just because we didn't need the help.
0:13:58Just because it came out when we were recording so we were skimming it, but that PR release
0:14:02about Apple Find My stuff says that the new products will be available beginning next week.
0:14:08So 14.5 out next week.
0:14:13Uh-oh!
0:14:15I'm ready. No, no, no. I have over 7,000 words ready to go, baby. It's all done, all taken care of.
0:14:23I don't care anymore. Thank you to Jay Bradley in the Discord for pointing that out to us.
0:14:29Uh, hopefully we can, uh, check this stuff out.
0:14:31What is that thing you're doing? It's the breaking news sound. What is the breaking news sound?
0:14:40That sounds...
0:14:41But like a fanfare? What is it?
0:14:43It's like a little Morse code type thing.
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0:16:46All right, this caught my eye.
0:16:47There was a report on MacRumors yesterday
0:16:50about the adoption rate of iOS 14.
0:16:54So according to data collected by Mixpanel,
0:16:57iOS 14 is now installed on 90% of all compatible devices.
0:17:02That's less than seven months after launch.
0:17:07And it got me thinking, like, is that fast?
0:17:09Is that slow?
0:17:10Is it good?
0:17:11Is it bad?
0:17:12And so I went and looked up the iOS 13 numbers.
0:17:16So in June, 2020, so nine months after iOS 13
0:17:20had been released, it was pretty far behind.
0:17:24The company said then that 81% of iPhone and iPod touch devices were running iOS 13, while
0:17:33just 73% of iPads were running iPadOS.
0:17:36So I think 13's reputation in the beginning, I don't think it ever really outgrew that.
0:17:42It's kind of how I read this.
0:17:44Yeah, and people were burned from all those bugs and issues that iOS 13 had at launch.
0:17:52And if you remember, there was a report on Bloomberg by Mark Gurman
0:17:56saying how, following the bad reception to iOS 13,
0:18:00Apple was going to change how they were going to make iOS.
0:18:04And I mean, which was kind of ironic,
0:18:06because after all, they did have to change how they worked on iOS
0:18:11because the pandemic happened.
0:18:13So yeah, you did change your process
0:18:15for working on new versions of iOS,
0:18:18but I guess for different reasons.
0:18:20Still, I do remember when iOS 13 came out,
0:18:25that was the super weird initial release
0:18:28when they did, first only iOS came out,
0:18:33then iPadOS came out at the end of the month,
0:18:37but iPadOS 13.0 never really came out.
0:18:40The first version of iPadOS was 13.1.
0:18:43- Well, don't forget that, well, 13 did ship,
0:18:47but only if you bought the new iPhone.
0:18:49No, I think you could also download it.
0:18:52No, but like, do you remember that was the year where it came out on the iPhone first,
0:18:58because they had to put it on there.
0:18:59Yes, it came to the iPhone first.
0:19:00And it was only on the new ones, and then 13.1 or whatever it was shipped on the older
0:19:05phones, it was like super up and down, it was a very weird one.
0:19:08And then they did like, before the end of the year, I think there were like 8 or 9 software
0:19:16updates to iOS 13.
0:19:18It was not good.
0:19:19it was a yeah, but Apple can thank underscore David Smith for that 90% because of
0:19:24We just made widget Smith. I genuinely believe this totally like widgets in general and I think widget Smith
0:19:30Predominantly because it was the most popular. I think that that drove adoption of iOS 14 in like the first few months and
0:19:39those statistics make me feel like if like it just
0:19:44Confirms what I think we were all thinking anyway that there will be some kind of enhancements to widgets this year
0:19:49I think that for a little bit you feel like young people are still using we just mean than like custom home screens
0:19:55I mean, I think so. I did look recently and in the UK at least like Widget Smith was like still in the top 20
0:20:02I think it's still a thing. I mean, I know I use it. I think if you get used to using widgets
0:20:08You don't you don't like stop using them. They just become a part of your home screen. You know what I mean?
0:20:14I really hope that those young people refer to David as "Widget Daddy." That's what I would
0:20:21call David. That's what I would do. But seriously, though, I really do feel like there's a case
0:20:28to be made for having more home screen customizations in iOS 15 than maybe Apple would have expected
0:20:36last year because of the response that we've seen to apps like Widgetsmith and, in general,
0:20:42the response to widgets and customization. I think Apple must have seen this coming to
0:20:47an extent, right? But I think they must have also been surprised by just how much people
0:20:54have been into it. And when you think about it, this is also part of my conclusion in
0:20:59the iOS 14 review. I think it's also because of the times that we're living in right now
0:21:04that people were so into home screen customization. First of all, because it was like a nice way
0:21:11spend your time at home just fiddling with your iPhone. We're all locked in and we have
0:21:18time to waste. And so let's just make a bunch of custom icons and spend time finding the
0:21:23perfect wallpaper and all of that. And also, more broadly speaking, I feel like now more
0:21:28than ever, personalization and customization are really important more than before because
0:21:34we are using these devices so much, whether it's for, again, wasting time or for starting
0:21:41from home or working from home. And so it was kind of the, obviously not ideal that
0:21:45we're living in a pandemic, but as far as home screen customization goes, it was sort
0:21:49of like the perfect storm scenario for Apple this time around. And so they should do more
0:21:55things in iOS 15. My concern is that by focusing on iOS 15 again, we're going to have to wait
0:22:03another year to get widgets on iPad, which that would be super annoying.
0:22:08I think that we might see stuff like the home, like customization and widgets and that kind
0:22:12of stuff be like for the first version of iOS, what like emoji is for the later ones
0:22:18of like picking people up, you know?
0:22:21And so I think that's something that we could see for sure.
0:22:26Is seeing more of this stuff to try and bring people in.
0:22:28It's always, I think it's in Apple's best interest to find things that can get people
0:22:34to upgrade, right?
0:22:35Like that's what they want to happen.
0:22:36and this is clearly something that took off in the mainstream like emoji.
0:22:41I would be very surprised if we don't see like, "Hey, this is what we're doing with
0:22:46widgets this year!"
0:22:47Like I would be really surprised if they don't have some kind of updated WWDC for that.
0:22:53Talking about the visuals, there was a sort of on MacRumors, Apple has an app called Apple
0:23:01Music for Artists, which is effectively the Apple Music version of App Store Connect, which
0:23:08is also pertinent to this discussion.
0:23:10Both of these applications in the last five or six months have received updates for their
0:23:15icons.
0:23:16App Store Connect was first in October, and then the Apple Music for Artists was a couple
0:23:23of days ago.
0:23:24And they both have a very distinct visual style.
0:23:27They're both white icons with a kind of line that runs around the outside and then the
0:23:34logo in the middle, the App Store logo or the music logo, which is recessed and has
0:23:39some depth to it, has a bit of life to it. Also kind of reminiscent honestly of a Big
0:23:44Sur icon, like there is actual depth in the icons.
0:23:49like the opposite depth, right? Like Big Sur icons are like coming out of the icon?
0:23:56Yeah, there's also an app called Transporter, which I don't know what that is, but that came from...
0:24:03How did we decide on saying Joe's name?
0:24:08Rossiniola.
0:24:09There you go. Of MacRumors who's in the Relay FM members discord right now. I don't know what
0:24:14Transporter is, but it's an application where you quote "upload content to Apple".
0:24:18It says right there, "Upload content to Apple."
0:24:22I guess we all use Transporter all the time.
0:24:25You know, look, it could be easy to say that this is just like a... could be anything,
0:24:29but this also could be a design trend that they will be going on for iOS 15
0:24:35of adding a bit more depth and life to these application icons.
0:24:41Because it's something they started with Big Sur, maybe they would bring it to iOS too.
0:24:47My theory that I shared privately in iMessage last night, which I am going to make public right now,
0:24:53is that they are going to use the Big Sur icons as like the model for the iOS icons, in the sense that
0:25:01you know how you have like, you know like, wok seals, right? That you stamp when you're stamping
0:25:07things? So like the Big Sur icons, because they are 3D, right? What's the opposite of recessed,
0:25:13Myke? You deal with paper and that kind of stuff, you must know these things.
0:25:17It's like embossed and debossed.
0:25:19Yeah, that thing.
0:25:20So basically the Big Sur icons will...
0:25:23Like, these new iOS icons are what happens if you
0:25:27stamp a Big Sur icons on a screen,
0:25:30you get the recessed effect.
0:25:32That's my theory.
0:25:34Oh, so, okay.
0:25:35If you took, like, the maps icon
0:25:38and smushed it onto some clay,
0:25:40what you'd be left with is the iOS icon.
0:25:42That's how they go together now.
0:25:44[laughs]
0:25:45What you get is the new style. So you take a Vixr icon, you smush it on a piece of...
0:25:53Smush it?
0:25:54Yes.
0:25:55Will they be backwards then?
0:25:57They can't think too much about this.
0:25:59Okay.
0:26:00Well, they can't. No, they will be backwards, obviously.
0:26:04That's not good. You don't want that. So, okay. So we smush the icons together and then
0:26:09put them in a mirror.
0:26:10Right. There you go. Yes.
0:26:13I mean the transporter one is like you could pour liquid into that arrow and it would hold it. I like the look
0:26:19I think it's cool. I hope we see more of this depth returning to the interface. I
0:26:24tried good task out so
0:26:26Okay, so we were talking so last time
0:26:30Both Federico and I decided that tick-tick wasn't for us. How did that make you feel Steven?
0:26:35Were you okay with that? I have a lot of things to talk to you about that but not for today. So, okay
0:26:40So I decided TikTok wasn't for me. So I thought all right, I'm gonna download good task again
0:26:45Good task also doesn't do the main thing that I want to do
0:26:48Which is the thing that I described like that. I like with only focus. I didn't like it tick tick which is
0:26:54adding
0:26:56multiple tags to a task
0:26:58That can be arbitrarily named
0:27:00Good task also wants the tag to be all one word
0:27:04which I don't like. What I like in OmniFocus is like a multiple words. It's just like a
0:27:09little thing that I attach, I put emoji in it and stuff and I like that.
0:27:13And it also kind of, you know, it...
0:27:16Good task is daunting. It really is. It's... Tick-ticking good tasks are almost like mirror images of each other
0:27:24where like, tick-tick looks really simple, but you can
0:27:30that's got like so many features if you just look around for them and
0:27:34Good task just has a lot of features and you see them immediately
0:27:37Like it's like care about hiding them. It's very much in your face
0:27:42Ultimately, I've realized that the system that I have built for myself and that I like right now
0:27:48It's just it's best it's best served by OmniFocus. So it's what I'm gonna stick with
0:27:53I will say I I don't like the UI of either of these applications
0:27:58ultimately like good task or tick-tick for very different reasons. Like I think I kind of touched
0:28:03on it already but good task is like super busy you know like it doesn't feel like an iOS app in its
0:28:10own way it's like there's just how about everything and then I remembered the thing that annoyed me
0:28:16the most which I know I can turn off but this annoyed me the first time I tried it which is the
0:28:20the the good morning notification the good task sends you and it says good morning my friend
0:28:27Yeah, and I just like, I don't want an application to wish me good morning.
0:28:34And we're not friends also.
0:28:36But it's like, this is an application, like my task manager for me is like,
0:28:42this application's notifications are some of the more important notifications that I get.
0:28:48So I like, like I see it's like, Oh, what does it say?
0:28:51Oh, it's like, you know, like, I look at my phone, look on my phone, and it's locked.
0:28:54So I don't get the notification preview. Right.
0:28:56And it's like, "Good task." "Oh, pick it up." "Good morning." "Shut up, good task."
0:29:01Right? Like, I don't want this.
0:29:03That was the reason I uninstalled the app. Because before then, I was like, "Ah, I don't think this
0:29:11is right for me. Maybe I'll come back to it." And I started a notification. And I thought to myself,
0:29:16"This isn't going to work." And then I removed both "good task" and "tick-tick" from my phone.
0:29:21Because I just realized like I don't need a new task manager right now.
0:29:26I'm, as I said before, mostly happy with OmniFocus.
0:29:30And the ways that I've got it, the things that I don't like about it,
0:29:34I've mostly been able to build my own functionality and shortcuts and stuff for it to get rid of it.
0:29:39But I just, I really like the flexibility that I've been able to build in that system
0:29:46via the use of tags and perspectives.
0:29:49and this is just not really a thing that other applications want to do in the same way.
0:29:54All of these apps are built with different mentalities in mind, and this is the OmniFocus one.
0:30:02>> No, that makes sense. I understand why this is not the app for you, and especially with all
0:30:08those settings and all that complexity. You know, a lot of the -- I think a lot of the best apps on
0:30:14on Apple platforms are the ones that strike that balance
0:30:18of hiding complexity from you,
0:30:20but also having tons of power user features.
0:30:23And GoodTask has a lot of power user features,
0:30:26but it just doesn't care about
0:30:27hiding the complexity from you or
0:30:29(laughing)
0:30:30having a scalable sense of complexity, right?
0:30:33That when you start with the app, it looks simple,
0:30:37but then it's sort of like progressive disclosure,
0:30:39if you will, that that complexity
0:30:41is progressively revealed to you.
0:30:43No, it just doesn't care about that.
0:30:45- It's one of the only apps that I've ever used
0:30:48that does that thing that so many apps does,
0:30:51which is like, "Hey, let me talk you through
0:30:53how we work here."
0:30:55You know, like, and you're going,
0:30:56and then it's like, all of a sudden here's everything.
0:30:59Like, usually applications that bother to have
0:31:02one of those like splash screen intro things,
0:31:05would then, I don't know,
0:31:06try and hold your hand a little bit more.
0:31:08This one does not.
0:31:10It does not want to hold your hand.
0:31:12Yeah, no, it just doesn't hold anything. No, it doesn't carry. Throws you off a cliff and
0:31:17leaves you there. So here's what I've been thinking about task managers, which is sort
0:31:24of also connects us to our next topic, because I think they're kind of related. I've been
0:31:29doing, especially over the past year, I've been rebuilding and rethinking about a lot
0:31:36of aspects of my setup in general. We talked about how I switched email clients. I've been
0:31:42on a whole journey with read later apps that eventually concluded last week in Mac Stories
0:31:48Weekly. I've been changing a lot of things. And the one aspect that I'm still not sure
0:31:58about is the Task Manager, right? I'm using Good Task and I'm happy about it. And of all
0:32:04the ones that I tested, it's definitely the best one for me at the moment. But the more
0:32:09I think about myself in the context of Federico as a person managing tasks, the more I realize
0:32:16that where I really struggle in my professional life is in reconciling. How much time I spend
0:32:26taking notes and writing and creating tasks for that text content. Like, I keep struggling
0:32:36with this problem of writing documentation for Mac stories or working on a long-form
0:32:45article for the site. And there's a task that, you know, imagine these long documents, there's
0:32:52a task that belongs to a specific portion of the document, and there's this disconnect between the
0:32:59document I'm working on. Again, it can be creative work or it can be admin work, it doesn't matter.
0:33:04I'm still working with text. And there's this disconnect between the document and the task
0:33:10manager. And I've tried to solve this issue in a bunch of different ways over the years,
0:33:16and I still haven't found the solution.
0:33:18And what I end up doing is, yeah, I can work with my Task Manager
0:33:23and my writing app of choice side by side in SplitView,
0:33:28but it's just that disconnect between this line of text
0:33:35that contains something that I gotta do,
0:33:37and the Task Manager that contains the same task,
0:33:41but it's completely disconnected from that piece of text.
0:33:44And so I end up creating like this double references
0:33:49in my system, right?
0:33:50So I leave a reminder in IARider, for example,
0:33:54but then I also recreate a task that says the same thing,
0:33:58but it's in my task manager,
0:33:59because that's the only place where I can have a date
0:34:02and I can have like proper task attributes.
0:34:05And so I feel like I'm doing this work twice,
0:34:09and I've been doing this for years.
0:34:11Like I leave reminders in my iOS reviews
0:34:14when I'm writing them in IARider.
0:34:16And I leave little tasks for me in craft
0:34:20when I'm working on documents for Mac stories and for the club.
0:34:24I've always been doing this.
0:34:26The only time when I sort of found a solution for this--
0:34:32I think it was three or four years ago--
0:34:35when I was using drafts at the time as my text editor.
0:34:40And that's the only time where I kind of put together a system that fixed this.
0:34:47I remember I had a script and I wrote about it.
0:34:51It must be in a Mac Sorry's Weekly newsletter.
0:34:53Boy, if only there was an easy way to search those.
0:34:56It's like "burn, but also..."
0:35:01I had this script that scanned my document for reminders I left to myself with a specific
0:35:09syntax that I came up with, and basically that script created reminders in the Reminders
0:35:15app and linked those with drafts. So I put together this two-way communication between
0:35:23drafts and reminders that was sort of close to my ideal. Because I feel like I've always
0:35:31been chasing this dream of, "Can I connect my task manager and my note-taking app or
0:35:39my text editor in some way?" And I don't know. Sometimes I think about it and I realize,
0:35:47"Boy, what I'm really seeking here is HyperCard and having these systems that can embed one
0:35:55within the other?" I mean, what an idea, right? But yeah, so that thing, it still doesn't
0:36:01exist. I came close to it years ago, but it was sort of hacky and, you know...
0:36:07Does it make sense what I'm trying to explain? Yeah, it does. I don't think it's ideal that I
0:36:14end up creating these tasks twice, basically. Well, you know TicTic has full markdown support
0:36:21in the notes, so you can just write... No, I'm not writing my articles in TicTic, Steven.
0:36:25Nope. Nope.
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0:37:57So we had an email from Matthew saying,
0:38:01"You guys talk a lot about task managers.
0:38:03"What do you use to track ideas for the future?"
0:38:07So they listed some examples like future discussions,
0:38:11content, features, app ideas, et cetera.
0:38:16And I thought this was really interesting
0:38:17because I actually just went through this,
0:38:20where before I would leave,
0:38:24like say ideas for 512 articles,
0:38:27just at the bottom of my 512 pixels to-do list.
0:38:31And then every once in a while,
0:38:32I would just promote one of them with a date
0:38:34and say, I'm gonna write this one today.
0:38:36But I was never really happy with that
0:38:38because it was sort of all intermixed with other stuff.
0:38:41And so I actually recently took this sort of idea tracking
0:38:46tracking and put it into things. And so I have a things list for columns I want to
0:38:52write, streams I want to host, videos I want to make. And then I can go through
0:38:57there and pick what looks good and then you know bring it into my task manager
0:39:01when I'm going to actually do it. And I've enjoyed that separation so far.
0:39:06What made you want to use things for this? Because it's beautiful and I will
0:39:12never have a repeating content idea so I'm not gonna hit their limitations.
0:39:18So like this is one of those things where like I'm just trying to get in your headspace
0:39:22for this.
0:39:23If you just like you're like oh I want say like I want to write an article about this
0:39:27you would just go and put it in things you would never put it in tiktik because like
0:39:31oh remind me to do it on Wednesday.
0:39:34If I had a date in mind it would go in tiktik like oh I want to cover this on this date
0:39:39But for other ideas, like for instance,
0:39:44like YouTube videos I want to put on the channel,
0:39:47basically that's just like a list of computers.
0:39:49And at some point when I get back around
0:39:51to making another video, I'll go in there
0:39:53and see which one sort of tickles my fancy in the moment.
0:39:56So they're more, they're not as tied
0:40:00to a schedule in this state.
0:40:03But if an idea does come up that I know,
0:40:07hey, I want to do this next week,
0:40:08or I wanna do it on this date to hit an anniversary
0:40:10or whatever it is, then it'll become a task.
0:40:12But these are sort of like floating ideas in the mist
0:40:16and I can just reach out and grab one if I want it.
0:40:18- Because like all of this stuff for me,
0:40:20this is what goes in a Notes app.
0:40:23Like this is how I think of it in my mind.
0:40:26So if I had something specific where I was like,
0:40:30oh, I wanna do this thing or I have this idea
0:40:33and if I can ever think of any way
0:40:36at which a date could be attached to it,
0:40:37it would go in OmniFocus. But if it's like an idea, like you're saying like, oh, I have
0:40:43something I want to make an episode of a show about, or I've had an idea for like a product
0:40:49or a merch thing that I want to do or whatever, then it would go into notes for me because
0:40:55I would consider these kinds of things as like parts of brainstorms, or they would be
0:41:01a jumping off point for more thinking.
0:41:03So it either goes into, depending on what it's about,
0:41:07it will either go into notes or craft, because I have basically now at this point
0:41:13for like the two areas of work that I think about, I like split it down the middle.
0:41:17Most of it goes in notes.
0:41:19I also put personal stuff in notes and then craft for other types of work stuff.
0:41:23Right now, it's anything to do with Cortex brand.
0:41:27It all goes in to craft, because that's where like
0:41:30come out with product ideas and all that kind of stuff. That all goes in craft.
0:41:34I'm actually really enjoying craft more and more, like
0:41:37text and images and drawing and multimedia are all living in one place.
0:41:41The structure and organization is good and the more I'm getting
0:41:45used to it the more I'm like looking past the parts that I find to be a bit
0:41:49weird because I'm benefiting so much from what I enjoy
0:41:52about it. I could imagine moving more and more stuff to craft in the future
0:41:57because I'm genuinely enjoying everything that it can do, the way it works, the way I can format,
0:42:03and how often they're adding new features. But to me, like all of this kind of stuff,
0:42:08it always just finds its way into a note of some kind until it's ready to become a task,
0:42:15if that makes sense. Like if I was doing what you were doing, Steven, if I was like making YouTube
0:42:21videos right? I would just have a YouTube videos note, like video ideas note and I would put all
0:42:27my video ideas in there until I was ready to then go ahead and do one of those. An example for me
0:42:34is the keyboard stream stuff. I'll have an idea, I'll be like oh I want to try doing this thing
0:42:39and I have a stream ideas note and I put all my ideas in there and then every Wednesday I have
0:42:47a task in OmniFocus to confirm what I want to do for that Friday's stream. So like that's kind of
0:42:54the way that this stuff works in me. It's like if it's not like a task of a due date and stuff,
0:43:00it's just going to go in a note somewhere because that's kind of like how I think and feel about
0:43:05all that kind of content. It just lives in a notes app. That's what I used to do.
0:43:10Something about having it just as a list kind of in its own place just seems to make more sense
0:43:15to me, but I totally get it. I've been thinking about this a lot, as I said a few minutes
0:43:20ago, especially in the context of not just the tension that I mentioned between the text
0:43:27editor and the task manager, but also something that I do, which is how do I decide what is
0:43:34an idea and what is a task and where do you draw the line when it comes to things that
0:43:43have on your mind, like things that you're thinking about, how do you know
0:43:48when those things become actionable, as the GTD people would say? And so I think
0:43:53it's important for me to clarify here how anything I put into my Task Manager,
0:43:58Myke said this before, I think we're very similar in that regard, anything that
0:44:03goes into the Task Manager has a date attached to it. At the very least there's
0:44:07a date. Most of the times, personally, there's also a time, because I try to
0:44:12to schedule my day pretty, well, not down to the minute, but I try to save some things
0:44:19for the morning and some things for the afternoon and try to follow that sort of structure.
0:44:25But anything that goes into my Task Manager anyway has a date. And by giving it a date,
0:44:32it means I'm making it actionable on a specific day and usually at a specific moment of the
0:44:38But at the same time, I find myself doing this a lot, where I may have a few things
0:44:44on my mind of like ideas for stories or ideas for shortcuts, right?
0:44:51But I need to think about them some more.
0:44:54And something that I guess I do a lot, and maybe it's not optimal in terms of saving
0:45:01brainpower resources, I let those ideas simmer for a long time. And I guess maybe I continually
0:45:12process them in the background. I don't have an exact way to describe this, but when I think of
0:45:18something, I tend to be very deliberate, especially as I grow older with the articles that I write and
0:45:24with the shortcuts that I make. And I don't know, I just feel like I need to think about stuff for
0:45:29a while before I commit to it. But in that time period, when I have the idea and when
0:45:38I let the idea just sit there for a while, is that a task? Is that still an idea? I think
0:45:45I personally classify it as an idea. I don't think it's a task. It's not a clear item that
0:45:51can be checked off a list. But it's also more than an idea, right? Because I'm developing
0:45:58the idea. And I guess maybe I am part of the problem, because maybe I need to be more,
0:46:05let's say, official in like taking notes about the idea and literally documenting every single
0:46:12thought that is in my mind about that idea. Maybe I don't do that as often as I should,
0:46:19but I still don't think it makes that jump right away from idea to task. And I find it
0:46:27really weird as a concept, which is why maybe I keep wishing for a two-way communication
0:46:35between my note-taking app and my task manager, because those lines are very blurry, at least
0:46:40in my mind. And so what I've started doing for the past year or so, and I think I mentioned
0:46:49this before, I have this personal note that I open many, many times every single day called
0:46:55the dashboard, which is literally like a text note that has a bunch of, I call them, quick
0:47:03links at the top.
0:47:05Those are basically launchers for things that I do frequently, so taking notes for connected,
0:47:12taking notes like saving ideas for app stories, or saving an idea for an article.
0:47:19And so those are quick links that take me to other notes where I save those ideas.
0:47:23And then there's a line break, like a horizontal line separator, and then it's just a blank
0:47:30note.
0:47:32And when I think of something that is not a task, but is also something that is semi-actionable,
0:47:40I save it there.
0:47:42Because then I gotta decide, okay, what am I gonna do with this?
0:47:44Like for example, yesterday, a friend of ours, so my friends have started doing this thing
0:47:50where when they need to do translations from Italian to English, they ask me. It's like,
0:48:02"Hey, can you give this like a second read to make sure that it's proper English?" And
0:48:07I'm happy to do it. It's fine. So this friend, she texted me yesterday saying, "Hey, I have
0:48:13this pages document that I translated to English, but I'm not sure about the English translation.
0:48:20you do it at some point. And what I did was I just put a reminder in the dashboard note
0:48:26saying at some point this week you gotta do this. I don't know when, I don't know when
0:48:32I will have the time to do this, I know that I have to do it eventually, I don't like the
0:48:37idea of scheduling it right away, but I also don't want to forget about it, right? And
0:48:44so I save it there. And then it's a bunch of other things like, oh, let me look right
0:48:48now I guess.
0:48:49I think without making a joke, I'm not trying to make a joke, but this sounds like the kind
0:48:55of way that a lot of people use tools like Notion. Like people have what they call these
0:48:59personal dashboards and stuff like that where it's pulling data from.
0:49:04Mine is not fancy, mine is just text.
0:49:07No, no, no, I know, I know, I know, it's very manual. But I'm just saying like it's like
0:49:12a similar idea I think.
0:49:15So the idea is, yes, I guess it's similar to that. I guess the idea is I just want to
0:49:22have an in-between space where I can save things that technically they are not tasks,
0:49:30in the GTD sense. Sometimes they are ideas for, like sometimes I just open the note and
0:49:36say, "Think about a connected topic." Right? For example, it's not a task. I'm reminding
0:49:46myself to think about something that will become a task eventually, but I just feel
0:49:51better about having this space that is sort of like a brain organizer. I don't know how
0:49:57to call it. I guess "dashboard" is a good word for it. It's a place where I can organize
0:50:03everything that's on my mind, even though those things are not tasks. I don't know.
0:50:09Maybe I'm weird, but it's just I'm feeling a lot better since I've been
0:50:13doing this. I still forget about stuff sometimes, which is why like sometimes I
0:50:21when we're driving and Silvia and I were talking and she's like she should she
0:50:26suggests like things to try for the club or things to try for Mac stories, I'm like
0:50:30can you please open the dashboard? No, can you please save it there because
0:50:33otherwise I'm going to forget. And she never wants to do it.
0:50:35And I tend to forget about those things.
0:50:39So what I've noticed about myself is I have to write down everything that I'm
0:50:43thinking about.
0:50:44And I like having this middle ground for things that are future tasks, I guess,
0:50:51would be another way to call them.
0:50:53These are future tasks that haven't taken shape yet.
0:50:56But the seed of those tasks exist somewhere.
0:51:02but I'm not ready to put them in a task manager yet.
0:51:06I don't feel comfortable creating tasks
0:51:08that say, think about topic, right?
0:51:12- Yeah.
0:51:13- I don't know, a task for me is like an actual thing to do.
0:51:17Like sit down and write for 30 minutes, that's a task.
0:51:21I guess maybe sit down and think would be, I don't know,
0:51:25there's something about it that makes me feel odd.
0:51:28- I do think that there is an element of these tools
0:51:32becoming more prevalent for people, like stuff like Notion and Roam and
0:51:37Craft, and as an idea of providing a place for these types of things to go, I
0:51:43do think that it's becoming a thing that people are finding use in and
0:51:50you've just got your own way of doing it. How often do you check in with this note?
0:51:55Oh, multiple times a day.
0:51:57Okay.
0:51:58Yeah, I got a custom icon in my iPhone dock to open the note.
0:52:03Nice. Oh, the dock. Fancy.
0:52:04Yeah. Yeah.
0:52:07Yeah, also, I feel like part of the reason is it creates less pressure than seeing, like, 25 tasks
0:52:18due today in your task manager.
0:52:20manager. Because when I open the dashboard, I see, "Oh, these are not critical and urgent
0:52:26tasks. These are like, reserve some time for thinking and consider this idea." I don't
0:52:34know. I tried to be sort of like a hyperscheduler before, right? I tried to live that kind of
0:52:40lifestyle and it was just terrible. And then everything becomes overdue and everything
0:52:46gets like a red font and you get the badge on the icon. So I don't like to do that anymore.
0:52:53I tend to be very... my task manager doesn't have a lot of tasks and that's not because
0:52:59I don't have work to do, not because I'm lazy, but because I try to be very, again, very
0:53:04deliberate with the things that I put in there and I try to be realistic also. Like, what's
0:53:10the purpose of scheduling five tasks at 5 p.m.? It's not like at 5 p.m. I can do five
0:53:15things, right? So yeah, I don't know. It is tricky and I think that it's okay if it is
0:53:24fluid and changes over time. The problem of "I need to remind myself to have time to think
0:53:31about something" is definitely tricky. Sometimes I do put those as a task of like, you know,
0:53:38usually with the verb being like "plan", like "plan for this series" or "plan for this episode",
0:53:45I like that. I like that.
0:53:47Yeah, but even that's kind of fuzzy.
0:53:50It's thinking time, most of the time, I guess. Yeah.
0:53:54I make tasks like that, too,
0:53:56which are, like, instructing me to do something.
0:53:58Think about this.
0:54:00So you make tasks for those with a due date and a due time.
0:54:04Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
0:54:07I see. I guess also part of the problem,
0:54:11at least on Apple platforms
0:54:12and at least, I guess, on iOS and iPadOS,
0:54:15is the capturing of these ideas, right?
0:54:18Really the fastest way on iOS is to use reminders
0:54:22and to use either Siri on the iPhone or the Apple Watch
0:54:25to say, "Hey, remind me about this."
0:54:27And that's by far the easiest way.
0:54:29But I think folks feel this problem a lot less on the Mac,
0:54:34because you don't have those kinds of limitations.
0:54:39You can add the OmniFocus quick entry window,
0:54:42and it's the same for things and Todoist,
0:54:44and you can have Apple scripts launching system-wide.
0:54:47But I'm feeling that on iOS.
0:54:50That's why I end up creating a custom icon that
0:54:52launches my dashboard.
0:54:53Because having the fastest possible capture
0:54:58for these ideas, for these tasks, and semi-tasks,
0:55:03is really important for me.
0:55:06Making it easy and super fast to be
0:55:07able to get an idea out of my brain
0:55:10and into some kind of page.
0:55:13Which is why, in the context of the evolution of iOS and iOS 15,
0:55:19I really hope that Apple expands this thing that they don't want
0:55:24you to call changing the default in Siri,
0:55:27but it's basically what it is.
0:55:29I really hope that they continue down
0:55:31this path of letting you pick a default for Siri
0:55:35and that the next domains for this
0:55:38will be note taking and task management.
0:55:41Imagine if you could just say, hey, Assistant,
0:55:45remind me about this.
0:55:46And it goes into things, or it goes into OmniFocus.
0:55:49And same for like make a note instead of going into Apple
0:55:52Notes and goes into drafts, right?
0:55:54Or craft or something else like that.
0:55:56So I really hope that Siri, they continue
0:55:58to expand that intelligent recommendation engine
0:56:02that they have for 14.5.
0:56:05But otherwise, yeah, I don't know.
0:56:08I'm continuing to think about where I'm at at the moment.
0:56:13Like the relationship between my note-taking app
0:56:17and my task manager,
0:56:18and how do I understand when something is a note
0:56:25and when it becomes a task.
0:56:28It's a, I don't know, it's a topic that I,
0:56:31not something that I think I've solved.
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0:58:20So Lauren Goode wrote a really wonderful article at Wired talking about how the devices and
0:58:27services that she uses kept reminding her of painful memories after having ended a relationship
0:58:36and calling off a wedding in late 2019. It is truly fantastic, incredibly well considered
0:58:43researched piece that you should read. She speaks to people at companies like Google
0:58:48and Pinterest about how they create their memories, features, the impacts that they
0:58:52think this stuff might have. And it is, I think, a rare article around technology which
0:59:03interweaves personal with the technology in the sense of like she moves backwards and
0:59:08forwards as she tells the story between this is tech and this is me interviewing someone
0:59:14in one of these companies, now let me tell you a bit more of the personal side of it
0:59:18again as she kind of like tells her story of the last year at the same time.
0:59:23It really, I'm not doing it justice like you really should read it.
0:59:26It's incredible.
0:59:27I had seen people linking to it but I hadn't read it until I just hadn't gotten to it yet.
0:59:32And then I saw Steven's link to it on 512 which was a also beautiful, heartfelt and open
0:59:42discussion about some of the experiences that he has faced with family struggles which
0:59:48it you should also read and they will both be on the show notes. I don't know how much of it you want to
0:59:52necessarily touch on
0:59:54right now or if you feel like it's worthy of touching on right now for the context. Yeah, I mean just just briefly
1:00:02I think longtime listeners will know our oldest son was diagnosed with brain cancer as a as a baby and underwent
1:00:08chemo and treatment and surgery all at St. Jude. That's why Relay FM raises money for St. Jude every year
1:00:16because of their life-saving work not only in our family's life, but in lots of families lives. So
1:00:20that clearly was a very traumatic time and
1:00:24and yeah, that's kind of where this article picks up.
1:00:27And so I wanted to talk about some of this stuff a little bit because
1:00:32like to you know
1:00:34This is definitely something I've been thinking about. I think everyone the three of us as well
1:00:41The last year or two, there have been some difficult things that have happened in our lives.
1:00:46And as I'm sure, you know, like many people have had tough times over the last year,
1:00:53but I think we've all had some uniquely weird or tricky things occur
1:00:59that aren't necessarily COVID related or not COVID related at all.
1:01:03And one of the things that is very strange is that you don't have to
1:01:11Look for memories anymore, or you don't have to be nostalgic and go and check your photos
1:01:18because
1:01:20Your memories come find you
1:01:22and sometimes
1:01:25These memories include things or people that you might not want to necessarily be thinking about at that moment
1:01:32Sometimes this comes about in really
1:01:37beautiful
1:01:39moments
1:01:40Yeah, or memories that hit you out of the blue and you're like, oh, it's so good
1:01:46Like I really miss that person, but it's a good thing, you know
1:01:48Like I see pictures of the three of us together and it's like I really missed that but I know it will happen again
1:01:53You know, so like it's it's an optimistic type of thing
1:01:56but sometimes there are things that pop up that you either would want to forget or it's like I
1:02:03Didn't necessarily want my day derailed by seeing this person's face right now
1:02:09And there is almost like this feeling of our memories being weaponized against us in some way
1:02:18to make us feel things like good.
1:02:22I mean, by intention, I believe with these systems, they're meant to make you feel good things
1:02:27so therefore you love your device or love your service more because it's reminding you of these good things.
1:02:34But there is no real distinction between what's good and bad.
1:02:41The system doesn't care, the system doesn't know what's good or bad, right?
1:02:47Because you were gonna say the system doesn't care, I actually think that is also relevant.
1:02:53Yeah.
1:02:54Because like, I do believe that there is work that can be done, which is complicated to
1:03:03try and alleviate some of these issues. Like I'll give an example and this just
1:03:09feels like an example to me which I feel like could be written into say the
1:03:14photos widget right? If I have lots of photos of someone over a period of time
1:03:19and then there are no more photos of that person. I was about to suggest that
1:03:25yes. Stop showing me photos of that person for a bit.
1:03:28Yep.
1:03:29Because what could that mean?
1:03:31That could mean that person died.
1:03:33That could mean that person has broken up with somebody else.
1:03:37Right. Like, you know, especially breakups. Right.
1:03:41But I think this is one or like it could be of a pet as well.
1:03:45Right. It's not just a person.
1:03:47But like, especially if I have tagged this person in my photos library
1:03:52to suggest that they're that important of me.
1:03:54And if I take a picture of them once a week
1:03:58and then for a month there are no pictures, maybe just don't show me them for a bit and see if it changes.
1:04:05If it doesn't, let's just chill for a bit on reminding me of that person.
1:04:11Because this is a big thing for breakups, it's the thing that Lauren is talking about in her article.
1:04:16Like, you know, relationships end and when they do, typically what you don't want is to keep having to think about that person.
1:04:27right? But like, you know, like, and I think that this is also sometimes I think even more so with
1:04:35death because that person's gone, right? I've been having this very issue. I haven't
1:04:46mentioned it publicly, but I guess this is the right segment for it. So my dad passed away
1:04:54six months ago. Actually, on the day that I had to publish my iOS 14 review, actually,
1:04:5930 minutes before I had to publish my iOS 14 review. And the reason why I don't use the
1:05:06photos widget and the reason why I, like, it stops me in my tracks whenever I sometimes
1:05:14accidentally, like, open the people section of the photos app, it's that it keeps recommending photos
1:05:23of my dad and he comes up at the very top of the people list and it's like...
1:05:29I know how to get rid of that "face" like as photos calls it, like people, faces, whatever.
1:05:38But that doesn't stop the memories.
1:05:39But it doesn't stop the memories and it doesn't stop the photos widget and it doesn't...
1:05:43Like the system, again, the system doesn't care, the system doesn't know, but it should, right?
1:05:49It should, like, the algorithms, they should be infused with some sense of humanity.
1:05:56I think it's what we're getting at here, because, like, I shouldn't have to...
1:06:02Software on my phone shouldn't make me feel bad, I think. And the same applies to social networks,
1:06:11the same applies to, you know, Facebook recommending a memory from seven years ago
1:06:18with somebody that you either broke up with or maybe that person died. And I think the more we
1:06:25are now using these devices and the more personal they get, because they have so much data about us,
1:06:30they have so much information, and arguably these algorithms have gotten really smart at things like
1:06:38identifying people, identifying animals. Like, they are very good at being computers and they are very
1:06:44bad at being human. That's the thing. And so, yeah, I can, like, I don't have a good
1:06:53solution for this. I think, practically speaking, I also had the same idea that you had, Myke,
1:06:58of like, maybe if you can find this person in photos in a while, maybe use that as a
1:07:05signal, right? That it means something. And I know that Apple, you know, I talk about
1:07:10Apple because that's the topic that I know more closely. I know that they do things like,
1:07:14oh, and now we can recognize in photos when somebody's smiling,
1:07:18or when they're looking straight at the camera,
1:07:21or we recognize blurry photos.
1:07:23I mean, that's great, technically speaking.
1:07:26But also, you should account for the other side of this,
1:07:30which is like in the Lawrence story,
1:07:31you know, I broke up with this person.
1:07:34Or what Steven wrote, like, you know,
1:07:36maybe those memories from years ago, from a different--
1:07:40you know, from a different time.
1:07:43you can find those photos, but you shouldn't make assumptions
1:07:47that those are happy photos.
1:07:50- It's not that even that the tools aren't good enough,
1:07:53because the tools aren't good enough,
1:07:55but at least the way that Apple does it,
1:07:57you know, say a photo comes up
1:07:59and I don't want it in the widget, for whatever reason,
1:08:02I can only act on that photo once it's shown it to me.
1:08:05I mean, it's like getting punched in the face
1:08:08and then saying, "Please don't punch me a second time."
1:08:10It's like, you've already hit me with it,
1:08:13and now I've got to go in and tell it,
1:08:14I want you to keep this image out of featured images
1:08:17or block this memory or forget this face, whatever it is.
1:08:21And again, like I'm with you Federico,
1:08:22I don't know how all that's fixed,
1:08:24but there should be better tools around this,
1:08:29whether that's some sort of opt-in,
1:08:31like yes, I want memories, but only from these five people
1:08:35and not necessarily everybody else, whatever it is.
1:08:39But it just, it really just struck me in her article that,
1:08:44you know, something that I've dealt with
1:08:45and I think a lot of other people deal with.
1:08:47And, you know, most of the time,
1:08:49I really love the photos,
1:08:50which I have it on my second screen on my phone.
1:08:53And most of the time it's fantastic.
1:08:55But there are those times where there is an image
1:08:58that I don't want to be reminded of,
1:09:00or that I know that if I see it,
1:09:03it's gonna put me in a place I don't want to be.
1:09:05And that's just, it's just really tricky
1:09:10to find that balance.
1:09:12And we're gonna talk about some ways,
1:09:13maybe some other ways to go about this,
1:09:15but yeah, I really wanted to talk about
1:09:16how that actually affects us as people
1:09:20because I think it's something that anyone could deal with.
1:09:24- And so, you know, similarly to Federico,
1:09:27at the end of 2019 and then the beginning of 2020,
1:09:31we had two surprising and pretty significant family deaths.
1:09:35Like, they just was pretty tough.
1:09:39And these people pop up still.
1:09:45And it's just like, I know why you're showing me this, but like, you know, and
1:09:51I just think after, I think that there's going to be a bit of a reckoning for this
1:09:55type of stuff after what 2020 has been, you know, like so many people have lost
1:10:01family members this year that like I can only assume that these types of features are just
1:10:09going to start to get like people are just going to start getting more and more upset
1:10:13at them. You know, and like there are a couple of ways to do things. I mean, one of them
1:10:20is one that I have done and it's not great really. It's like I've had to delete some
1:10:25images and it's like this is not really the solution. You know I can in a way
1:10:30to handle that is like if there are images that I think I might want in the
1:10:35future I just remove them from photos right like I save them somewhere else
1:10:40and maybe I will bring these back later on but that's also kind of like a real
1:10:48ham-fisted way to handle this and like so we're talking about the widget but
1:10:53But it's not just the widget, right?
1:10:54Because like the photos app like is now really wanting these things in your face.
1:11:00And again, I want to just say like when I find so more frequently I find good things,
1:11:07but the good feeling that I feel is not as strong as the bad feeling if I find a bad
1:11:13image, right?
1:11:14It's like the misbalance is so off that like I could go I could have like six days in a
1:11:22row all happy memories but then one day a bad thing and then I'm upset more in
1:11:28that day for seeing that image than I am in others. I will give everybody a tip
1:11:34though for a thing that I've done which makes me happier and I've recommended
1:11:39some people in my life. We've previously spoke about Widgetsmith. If you like the
1:11:45idea of the photos widget but the photos widget has stuff in it that's painful for
1:11:50you pick a bunch of images over a period of time and put them into a folder like
1:11:55an album in the photos app and then create a widgetsmith widget which pulls
1:12:01images from an album and then you can have them in all sizes and it can show
1:12:06up and then you're just gonna see only the images that you've chosen so all
1:12:10happy memories right so like because honestly like ever we all know this AI
1:12:18AI, machine learning, it's not clever.
1:12:21Like every company tries to talk about
1:12:23how smart their systems are.
1:12:24The systems are stupid, right?
1:12:26These systems aren't smart, right?
1:12:28It's like trying to cut something with a hammer.
1:12:33It's like, it will break it in half, right?
1:12:36Like you keep smashing it.
1:12:37You are gonna cut this thing in half,
1:12:39but you're doing it in a very, very blunt way.
1:12:43This is not the way that you want to do this.
1:12:46And that's where we are with this stuff.
1:12:48And all of the tech companies are trying to talk,
1:12:51they try and talk about how smart their systems are,
1:12:54but they just aren't, right?
1:12:56And so I think that there is an element
1:12:59of trying to be aware of yourself,
1:13:03and especially like with taking an example from Steven
1:13:07of like looking at yourself, trying to understand
1:13:10what is the thing that's upsetting me,
1:13:12and then taking steps for it before it becomes a problem.
1:13:17- Yeah, and that's really why I wrote what I did.
1:13:20It wasn't so much about the system should be better,
1:13:22although that is totally true.
1:13:25But for me, I was in a situation where,
1:13:27okay, there's a set of photos from a specific time span
1:13:31before our son was diagnosed.
1:13:33And now I can see the symptoms that he was experiencing,
1:13:37but I couldn't then 'cause I didn't know to look for them.
1:13:40parent would. They're subtle and neuro stuff is weird, but you know for a long
1:13:47time I've really struggled when one of those photos has popped up really feeling
1:13:51really bad and and it got to a point where it was inhibiting me from really
1:13:59moving on, you know, moving forward in life and when something is like that you
1:14:04know where it can really derail you in a way or it can it can cause you know
1:14:09shame and fear and anxiety and all those things and like, you know, maybe it is time to deal
1:14:14with those on a more serious or professional level. And that's, that's kind of where I
1:14:20was. And I wrote about that in the piece. But, you know, I think there's levels of this.
1:14:25Yeah, there may just be pictures I don't want to be reminded of like a spring break trip
1:14:28that went sideways. But then there's other images like, okay, if I have this visceral
1:14:32reaction to them every time, you know, that that's, it feels like a different thing.
1:14:37I also wanted to have one final tip when it comes to apps.
1:14:41Like, if you want to have a photo widget, and if you like Myke, also keep your best photos in a separate album.
1:14:48But if you want to have, like, a photo widget with a bunch of extra controls, I believe the developer of Launcher,
1:14:56they released a new app a few days ago called Smart Photo Widget.
1:15:02And it's really nice because it's got a bunch of filters.
1:15:04So you can point the app at an album and they have filters for automatically skipping photos
1:15:11where your eyes are closed, or overexposed photos, blurry photos, screenshots.
1:15:18They have a bunch of settings that you can tweak.
1:15:20And so it's a similar take on other photo widgets that you may have found on the App Store.
1:15:26But this one is really nice because it's got a bunch of options and a bunch of different filters for picking your best photos.
1:15:32So all of this should really be built into the default photo widget by Apple,
1:15:39but hey, that's where third-party developers come in.
1:15:42What's the name of that one Federico?
1:15:44Smart photo widget. If it doesn't come up in search, you can find it by looking for launcher
1:15:51and then clicking on the developer profile page.
1:15:55Yes, Steven just put in a link in the discord as well. That is the correct one.
1:16:00Japes.
1:16:02Sometimes.
1:16:04Yeah.
1:16:06Sometimes it's like, what if
1:16:08Japes were sad?
1:16:10Right?
1:16:12[Laughter]
1:16:14Well...
1:16:16It was just something that
1:16:18I don't know, it felt important.
1:16:20Yeah, I mean, we can be serious
1:16:22too, you know?
1:16:24It is important, especially if you're
1:16:26kind of in the situation that
1:16:28that I was in with it where it was just overwhelming.
1:16:31And if that's where you are with this stuff,
1:16:34then I would encourage you to find somebody
1:16:36to talk to about that.
1:16:38I said this in my tweet, I didn't really expect
1:16:40to talk about my PTSD on the internet this week,
1:16:43but I believe that it was a good response to Lauren's piece
1:16:47and that we're talking about it for a reason.
1:16:49So if you have something like this
1:16:51that you're struggling with,
1:16:53take some time and consider it.
1:16:54And it's always good to ask for help.
1:16:58There's absolutely no shame or embarrassment about that whatsoever.
1:17:02It can be a very useful tool to speak to somebody else.
1:17:05Something that I discovered over the past few months is like,
1:17:08don't be afraid to ask for help and just to talk even to like a
1:17:13relative or a friend about it. Like people are willing to listen to you.
1:17:18If you, if you're, you know, if you have somebody close to you,
1:17:20don't be afraid to open up and talk about stuff. That's what I did.
1:17:24And it really helps.
1:17:26Please read Lauren Goode's articles.
1:17:27It's just sublime.
1:17:29- I think that does it this week.
1:17:32If you wanna find links to the stuff we spoke about,
1:17:34they're in your podcast app choice probably,
1:17:37but they're also on the web all the time
1:17:40at relay.fm/connected/340.
1:17:45While you're there, you can send us an email.
1:17:48I love emails.
1:17:49Send me some emails.
1:17:50- Do you know why he loves them?
1:17:51He can't get enough of them.
1:17:53He's always texting us saying, "Oh, I love these emails."
1:17:57- I printed him out a mail them to y'all.
1:17:58You'll get them soon.
1:17:59- Good luck.
1:18:00- You can also become a member
1:18:02and get access to Connected Pro,
1:18:04which is a longer ad-free version of the show.
1:18:07This week, we decided on what to call listeners of the show.
1:18:12- Mm-hmm.
1:18:13- And I'm just gonna leave it at that for now.
1:18:15- Mm-hmm.
1:18:16- You can find us all online,
1:18:18if for some reason you want more of us.
1:18:20You can find Myke on Twitter as @IMYKE.
1:18:24Myke hosts keyboard streams over on Twitch at Myke.live,
1:18:29and he hosts a bunch of other shows here on Relay FM.
1:18:33You can find Federico on Mac Stories,
1:18:36where he is the editor-in-chief,
1:18:37keeping out for his 14.5 article
1:18:40whenever Apple decides to update iOS again.
1:18:43(laughs)
1:18:45Whenever that is.
1:18:45- They're right next week, can't wait.
1:18:48You can find him on Twitter as @Vatici as well.
1:18:51Now, for the last several months,
1:18:53I've been asking Federico questions.
1:18:56Right, to better get to know him
1:18:58as you would on a first date.
1:19:00Oh, you're done now?
1:19:03They're over?
1:19:04Are we moving to the second date?
1:19:06(laughing)
1:19:08I'm building up to my question.
1:19:12Tell me about your and Silvia's first date.
1:19:15Oh boy.
1:19:16Uh, so she's gonna hate me.
1:19:21We haven't exactly dated in the sense that before
1:19:27becoming a couple, we had been friends,
1:19:31really close friends for like five years.
1:19:34We did the entire five years of high school together.
1:19:39And it was in the last three months of high school that
1:19:44we realized we actually liked each other as more than friends.
1:19:49And...
1:19:50How long have you two known each other?
1:19:52Ooh.
1:19:53Well, like, she used to...
1:19:56Actually, she was very mean to me back in middle school.
1:20:01To be fair...
1:20:02That's that kind of mean when you like one person.
1:20:04To be fair, like Sylvia in middle school, she was like one of the mean girls at the
1:20:08school.
1:20:10And I mean, I was also like, I was short and kind of, you know, chubby and like, with glasses,
1:20:18like I was a bit of a nerd. And I like, you know, it's not like I was bullied or anything,
1:20:27which is, I was not one of the cool kids at all. Thankfully, I always made it up in terms
1:20:32of like being fun. Like having, like I've always been this way, like I was a bit of
1:20:36a nerd but I always had like the joke ready to go in class. So Sylvia didn't really notice
1:20:42me back in middle school. I did notice her for sure. But then we ended up in high school
1:20:49together and high school in Italy is different from America in that it's the same class with
1:20:56the same people for five years. And so we had been in high school in the same class,
1:21:04same group of 25-something kids for five years. And then it was in the very last few months
1:21:11of high school that I realized, you know, I actually like her more than as a friend.
1:21:18And she thought the same, but we were like not admitting that to each other. And so in
1:21:24Italy, in Italian high school, I guess there's this tradition. I don't know if it's the same
1:21:29elsewhere, Myke, in the UK, maybe, I don't know. We call it the 100 days lunch, where
1:21:37basically 100 days before the final exams, the class has a lunch together with the alongside
1:21:44the teachers at a restaurant.
1:21:46How nice. That's fun.
1:21:48Yeah, it's a nice tradition. It's fun. It's like three months, basically three months
1:21:52and something before the final exams, we go, we all go to lunch together at a restaurant.
1:21:58And so the first date I guess will be, Sylvia and I got drunk and they found us making out
1:22:04outside.
1:22:07Along with 98 of your fellow students. The most intimate of first dates.
1:22:14No, it's not 98 people. It's 100 days, Myke, not 100 people.
1:22:20Oh, yeah.
1:22:22Yes.
1:22:23Was it?
1:22:24And then my best friend, one of my best friends back then, he found us and was like, "Oh,
1:22:30you guys have finally realized."
1:22:31He said something along the lines of, like, "It was about time," or something like that.
1:22:38They were all really happy for us.
1:22:40And my friend, he actually, he brought us back home and we kept making out in the back
1:22:45seat.
1:22:46And then we never stopped being together.
1:22:48All making out.
1:22:49Never stopped.
1:22:50To this day.
1:22:51To this day. Yeah, so there was really never like a proper date. You can find me on Twitter as ISMH
1:22:59I host a bunch of other shows here on Relay FM and I have
1:23:04my
1:23:06Blog. Blogs are still a thing. I write it over at 512pixels.net. Go check it out. Before we go
1:23:12I want to tell you about another show here on Relay FM that I think you would enjoy and that is
1:23:16Clockwise they are live on Wednesdays just before us
1:23:20But that's not a problem because they cover for tech topics and just 30 minutes
1:23:25It's a lot of fun rotating panel go check it out at relay FM slash clockwise or search for clockwise
1:23:32Wherever you get your podcasts. I like to thank the sponsors of this show
1:23:37Hello, smile and Squarespace and until next week guys say goodbye. I do that you cheerio. Bye y'all