329: The Smell of Broken Glass


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 329.

00:00:12   It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:15   Squarespace, Pingdom, and ExpressVPN.

00:00:18   My name is Steven Hackett and I'm joined as always

00:00:21   by Mr. Myke Hurley.

00:00:22   - Hello.

00:00:24   - Hello.

00:00:25   How are you?

00:00:26   - Oh, well, jinx.

00:00:27   - Jinx.

00:00:29   Now that'd be fun, wouldn't it?

00:00:30   The jinx your podcast co-host?

00:00:33   How's that one gonna last?

00:00:34   - Can't talk until you bring me a coke.

00:00:36   - Why is that the thing?

00:00:37   - I don't know.

00:00:38   - 'Cause here, if you jinx someone,

00:00:40   the person can't speak again

00:00:43   until you say their name three times.

00:00:45   - Hmm, I don't know.

00:00:46   - That's how it works.

00:00:47   I don't know why coke's gotten into it.

00:00:49   - I don't know.

00:00:50   Well, there's a scene in "The Office" where that happens.

00:00:53   And I don't know if it was a thing

00:00:55   before that "Office" episode or not.

00:00:58   Anyways, hello, I'm glad you're well.

00:01:01   We're also joined by Federico Vatici.

00:01:03   - Hello, I'm good before you ask.

00:01:05   - Wow.

00:01:06   - Yeah, I'm doing fine.

00:01:08   - We haven't got time to waste.

00:01:10   - No, we have a lot of stuff to talk about this week.

00:01:12   - Nevermind me, go on, follow up, go on.

00:01:15   - Follow up.

00:01:16   We have a great idea sent in from a listener, Leon,

00:01:22   who writes, "When air tags come out,

00:01:25   "can you please all get some?

00:01:27   then your significant others can hide them somewhere around your house or city if you can go outside

00:01:32   and you can all race to see who can find their air tag the fastest in a competition we'll call

00:01:39   the taggies. I don't know why anyone would think that we'd be interested in such trivial

00:01:47   competition. I don't know, I'm not sure what it is that would make people believe that

00:01:52   we would compete for such silly things but I guess somehow we've given ourselves this

00:01:59   this mentality I suppose. People think of us. I'm not too opposed to the idea,

00:02:08   personally. There are so many issues around rules for an event like this. I don't even want

00:02:15   I don't even want to think about what the reading of the rules would look like because

00:02:19   Well, what? Like if Sylvia hit it at the beach and you're in Rome and like Mary just hit Stevens in the back garden, like, you know.

00:02:32   This to me sounds like the sort of game that we should be playing at WWDC.

00:02:37   Yes.

00:02:37   Once we can do that again in person.

00:02:39   Oh my god, three air tags. They're hidden around the auditorium.

00:02:43   This to me feels like a WWDC game.

00:02:49   Yes, it really does. Ooh, I like the sound of this. Well, we can hold that for maybe

00:02:55   three years or maybe not.

00:02:56   Oh no, oh no. Please don't say it three years. 2022, come on, next year.

00:03:03   I still don't think so. I still don't think so. I'm not putting any money on it.

00:03:10   In relation to this, Federico, you last week very boldly claimed that you have never lost

00:03:17   thing. That is still true. Even though it was proven on the episode that he had in fact

00:03:24   lost multiple things. Yes. And you were supposed to double check that with Sylvia. Have you

00:03:30   done this? Yeah I did. We cannot remember any single particular thing that I've lost.

00:03:37   Well I mean I've told you. We're supposed to believe you. It's a heart rate monitor.

00:03:41   you can text Sylvia if you don't believe me. But like I have an example. I have the example.

00:03:48   That was stolen from me. Your heart rate went up. You lost that. It was stolen from me.

00:03:51   I didn't lose it. It was stolen. It was taken from me. To be on somebody else's sweaty chest.

00:03:59   Not mine. So. Now that he's mad.

00:04:08   The streak is unbroken. Stephen has broken another iPhone.

00:04:12   When you say another, that's kind of a loaded term.

00:04:16   Yeah, he's right. Another.

00:04:18   I'm pretty sure you have broken a version of every iPhone for like the last four years.

00:04:23   Well, let's find out.

00:04:24   You break every one of them?

00:04:25   Let's find out. I keep a list.

00:04:28   How?

00:04:29   I keep a list.

00:04:29   You keep a list of the phones you've broken?

00:04:32   Yes.

00:04:32   That shows how often you break phones.

00:04:35   Well, it shows that I don't have a list.

00:04:36   I don't have a list.

00:04:37   I care about my content creation job.

00:04:38   I have never broken an iPhone.

00:04:41   Should we go through this history?

00:04:42   Yeah.

00:04:43   iPhone 4s fell out of my car at a job I used to have, facedown with a parking lot and broke.

00:04:51   Mm-hmm.

00:04:52   iPhone 6 was dropped down a flight of stairs in a parking garage.

00:04:55   Mm-hmm.

00:04:56   People remember that one, I think.

00:05:00   Super dead.

00:05:03   iPhone 6 Plus was bent by the emergency brake in my car.

00:05:10   iPhone 7 Plus got knocked off my desk in my office, which has concrete floors, and it

00:05:15   missed the rug by about 4 inches and shattered.

00:05:19   iPhone 10, I just have "unknown."

00:05:22   I'm not sure what happened to that one.

00:05:25   iPhone XS Max, I was working under my truck and I dropped a tool on the screen on my phone

00:05:31   and broke it.

00:05:32   Yeah.

00:05:32   Mm-hmm.

00:05:33   And then the iPhone 12 Pro, I broke the back glass while dropping it while tripping.

00:05:38   You didn't break the iPhone 11?

00:05:40   No.

00:05:41   And not like 420 tripping, I tripped over a rug.

00:05:44   If you would have broken iPhone 11, you would have been like on a streak from the iPhone 6.

00:05:50   Yep.

00:05:50   6, 7, 10, 10S.

00:05:52   Do we all agree that the problem is you at this point?

00:05:56   You mean we have to?

00:05:57   Like, do you realize that you have a problem?

00:06:00   Seems like it.

00:06:01   yeah like really like this is what you keep breaking everything life when you

00:06:08   have is it like a fetish like why I love the sound of glass real problem yeah

00:06:15   like is this how you get your kicks he just like walks around holding it just

00:06:20   two fingers like well now be the time I don't understand I don't know it just

00:06:28   happens to me. Like you know it's not necessary to break it. Is it just iPhones? Like if you

00:06:33   only broke iPhones do you break other things? Like technology wise? Mmm I broke a laptop

00:06:38   screen in the past, a laptop fell and I broke a screen. That was recent right? Uh-huh it

00:06:44   was like last year. Do you break other things consistently in your life? No I've never broken

00:06:49   an iPad. My foot. I broke an iPad. My foot I guess counts. It was only once. So yeah

00:06:57   It's quite a record, but I got my new phone here and I got some bad news about the new

00:07:02   phone.

00:07:03   It's not broken.

00:07:04   Don't worry.

00:07:05   You just just to confirm you got you had Apple Care, right?

00:07:09   You did know I this is why I buy Apple Care on my phones because I know this is going

00:07:12   to happen.

00:07:14   You've really got your money back over time.

00:07:16   Oh, yeah.

00:07:18   So I shipped my broken iPhone back to Apple just this morning, actually, and have my new

00:07:23   phone.

00:07:24   I got it set up yesterday did the migration thing.

00:07:26   as a sidebar the direct phone to phone transfer like over wireless is awesome

00:07:31   it's the second or third time I've used it and I cannot say enough good things

00:07:36   about it especially if you do it overnight and you don't miss using your

00:07:40   phone although this morning both phones went off with my alarm the problem is

00:07:45   doing it on launch day because you want to use the phone and the phones like out

00:07:50   of action for three hours or whatever yeah you know the discord thinks that

00:07:56   Apple's gonna stop selling me Apple Care at some point. Is that a thing? I don't

00:08:00   think, I hope not. I mean it's like an insurance, right? Like if you keep

00:08:04   claiming at a certain point you're costing them more money. Maybe. Maybe they

00:08:08   will just like cut you off. You think they're thinking you're committing

00:08:12   Apple Care fraud? I mean the phones are really broken and I pay them $99 a time

00:08:16   to replace it. But still, can we get to the bad news? So the bad news is, last

00:08:25   night I have my old broken phone which was now in a case. So you're painting a

00:08:31   whole picture. Yeah I gotta paint the picture. Sure. What did you have for

00:08:35   dinner? What did I have for dinner? I don't know what I had for dinner last night.

00:08:39   Smell in the air. Yeah, smell of broken glass. So my broken phone which is being

00:08:46   held together by the case it was now in, I put it in a case after I broke it to

00:08:49   keep it together, that phone was sitting on the MagSafe charger on my nightstand

00:08:53   stand and I brought a lightning cable in and had the new phone plugged into

00:08:59   lightning because I knew this was gonna take three hours I didn't want the

00:09:01   phones to die while this was going on and I go to lay down and I hear

00:09:08   something I hear a little sound and I had flashbacks to my iPhone 7 plus and I

00:09:16   realized that my new phone makes the same coil whine hissing noise here we go

00:09:22   again. That my phone 7 plus did. Stop the presses, Steven's going on the morning shows.

00:09:27   No, no, this cannot be happening again.

00:09:29   So if you're not aware of what happened, I had an iPhone 7 plus that did this. I shot the world's

00:09:36   worst video of it and posted it over the weekend and it went viral. 1.6 million views. Is that what

00:09:43   it's up to? Golly. And also to say you shot a video is a real stretch. It's just a picture.

00:09:50   and some sound.

00:09:51   (laughing)

00:09:52   It's not great.

00:09:53   - It's a 30 second video of a hiss.

00:09:55   - Yeah, it was on like the morning shows on Monday.

00:09:59   It was wild.

00:10:00   It was a terrible, terrible weekend.

00:10:02   - It started with a gate.

00:10:03   - It was a gate.

00:10:04   It was his skate.

00:10:05   - It was a gate.

00:10:06   Yeah, his skate.

00:10:06   - So anyways, this phone only seemed to do it

00:10:10   when it was transferring,

00:10:11   which is a really heavy duty task,

00:10:14   and it doesn't do it now, even if it's plugged in.

00:10:17   So I checked it this morning.

00:10:18   it doesn't make noise. So hopefully it's all good to go.

00:10:23   One thing I have noticed, like still my iPhone, it gets hot sometimes, like really hot to

00:10:29   the touch sometimes. I don't know if this is the thing that I'm just not wearing a case

00:10:33   on my phone, so maybe they've been like this for a while, but there is like just a point

00:10:37   on the top left of my phone kind of in the back, so it'd be the top right on the back

00:10:41   if you're looking at it on the back, where it gets a bit hot to the touch.

00:10:45   Ian has updated the Relay FM fandom wiki with your page, Steven, with a list of all the

00:10:53   devices you've broken.

00:10:55   Does Federico have a page yet?

00:10:56   So if people want to check your list.

00:10:58   I was the first one to have a page.

00:11:00   Yeah, we got upset about this because it says "Superpowers never loses anything, may temporarily

00:11:05   mishandle items" is Federico's page.

00:11:09   You live outside of London with your wife, Arumba, and a growing collection of mechanical

00:11:13   keyboards.

00:11:14   You started a gate five years ago, but you have started a gate with these AirPods Max

00:11:20   battery issues.

00:11:21   No I haven't.

00:11:22   You see?

00:11:23   This is a thing that I learned.

00:11:25   So I was having problems with the, I've mentioned this right, the battery on my AirPods.

00:11:31   And I hadn't heard anybody mention it at that point.

00:11:33   I hadn't heard it said anywhere, I hadn't read it anywhere.

00:11:37   Where did I talk about it?

00:11:38   On this show.

00:11:39   Where did I not talk about it?

00:11:40   On Twitter.

00:11:41   I knew if I tweeted about it, someone was going to make it a thing. Like that time when

00:11:47   I realized that it was like the iPhone 6s or something that the button, because remember

00:11:55   they turned the button to be like a solid state button, right? Remember that? It didn't

00:12:01   move anymore. And I realized that that meant that like if you had gloves on or whatever,

00:12:06   you couldn't use the home button. So I tweeted it. And then like my Twitter account exploded

00:12:11   for 24 hours, nowhere near the level of his gate.

00:12:14   But it ended up in some company sending me gloves

00:12:17   that had touch ID capabilities for them.

00:12:20   So what I didn't want to do is tweet about the fact

00:12:23   that the battery was bad on my AirPods Pro Max.

00:12:26   But now there have been like forum posts and stuff like this forum posts.

00:12:31   So MacRumors, a 9 to 5 Mac, picked it up.

00:12:34   I'm still experiencing this.

00:12:37   The thing is, it's random.

00:12:38   like some days my AirPods Max are fine, other days they're completely dead and this is even when I

00:12:44   leave them in the little silly case. So I haven't been able to track down any reproducible steps for

00:12:49   it. It basically seems like from my experience and the experience of others that are reporting issues

00:12:55   that their headphones they're not correctly switching to low power mode and maybe staying

00:13:00   connected to devices when they're not supposed to be and it's like it's just draining the battery

00:13:07   because they're just on all night. I tried like, I wondered if maybe my Macs were the issue or

00:13:13   something, I don't know, like maybe the new M1 Mac and these weren't playing nicely together,

00:13:18   so I turned off like automatic detection for the Macs but it hasn't changed anything

00:13:22   because I'm still having issues on my AirPods Macs rather than my Macintosh's.

00:13:29   I don't know, it's a thing, people are seeing it, I now expect that they're going to fix it somehow

00:13:35   because people are writing articles about it now.

00:13:39   Anything else in follow-up we need to address?

00:13:42   Probably not.

00:13:44   Do I have a motion to close follow-up?

00:13:48   Is this a thing now?

00:13:50   I don't know. Motion it and see what happens.

00:13:54   What would you say? What's the opposite of motion denied?

00:13:56   What would you say? Would you say motion -- seconded?

00:13:58   Is it -- so I second it?

00:13:59   Someone has to motion, and someone has to second.

00:14:02   Okay. So you would say --

00:14:03   So like I motion to move to ad break?

00:14:05   Yes.

00:14:06   Do I have a second?

00:14:07   And then Federico has to second it.

00:14:08   What do I have to say?

00:14:12   Motion seconded?

00:14:13   Seconded?

00:14:14   I second the motion.

00:14:15   There you go.

00:14:16   I second the motion, yes.

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00:16:06   So Apple are doing podcast related things.

00:16:09   There's things they are doing, things they're rumored to do, uh,

00:16:14   but movements continue to occur. One of these, um,

00:16:17   is according to 9to5Mac,

00:16:21   sources have told them that there are Apple Music and Apple

00:16:26   podcast apps coming to Windows, which is interesting because Windows currently has iTunes and so

00:16:34   it looks like they're going to be bringing those apps over. I mean this could mean a

00:16:38   bunch of different things I suppose but I think ultimately it just, even if Apple wasn't

00:16:42   doing anything else with podcasts, I think it makes sense to kill iTunes on Windows if

00:16:47   they're going to continue wanting to support Windows and have an Apple Music app and a

00:16:51   podcast app because they're the brands like iTunes is not a brand for Apple

00:16:56   anymore but Apple Music and Apple podcasts are so rather than just leaving

00:17:02   iTunes on Windows to be this like withering on the vine type thing they

00:17:07   should actually make the applications that the other platforms have I think.

00:17:13   About a year ago maybe there were some job postings that pointed towards this

00:17:18   - Yeah.

00:17:19   - And you're right, iTunes on Windows

00:17:22   is like stepping back in time.

00:17:24   It's really weird to use.

00:17:26   And it doesn't put Apple Music front and center.

00:17:29   I think that's what they want.

00:17:30   What surprises me about this really is that I,

00:17:34   we may see this before my pick of Apple podcasts on Android,

00:17:40   which I think makes more sense than this

00:17:42   'cause most podcasts,

00:17:43   if something happens on mobile devices,

00:17:45   but who knows, maybe that's coming too.

00:17:48   But this would bring Windows along with the current state of Apple media apps.

00:17:53   Yeah, I'm now coming around to podcasts on Android, but only if they do what is

00:18:02   reported to be done, like the information had that report that they're looking to

00:18:07   have some kind of podcast subscription service with original content.

00:18:11   If Apple do do that, then I also expect there to be Apple podcasts on Android.

00:18:17   The current product and their offering I don't think really dictates it, but at the point

00:18:23   that they want to start making it part of the overall services thing, they might want

00:18:28   to look at bringing that over.

00:18:30   I mean it does start to get awkward because then like, you know, Fitness Plus is part

00:18:34   of it technically, but that wouldn't work, you know?

00:18:37   Like because it's so integrated with Apple Watch, but Apple TV is on other platforms.

00:18:44   So yeah, it gets a bit murky, but I could imagine podcasts being more like Apple TV

00:18:50   than say, News+ or Fitness+ in what Apple offers for it to other platforms.

00:18:57   And there was also this thing, I read about this on Macintosh stories.net.

00:19:02   There is a new editorial feature for Apple podcasts where every month they're going to

00:19:07   feature a podcast from a quote, "up and coming creator".

00:19:12   Human Curation on the Podcasts directory or store, whatever you want to call it, is not

00:19:18   new.

00:19:19   In fact, they've been doing this for longer than any of their other Curation things like

00:19:22   the App Store or Apple Music.

00:19:26   Podcasts on Apple's devices and iTunes and everything, there's been an element of Human

00:19:31   Curation in it always.

00:19:33   It's always been a thing.

00:19:35   And they also have human submissions.

00:19:39   So all submissions to Apple podcasts, they're listened to by a human for the first time

00:19:45   when you want to get your feed in the store.

00:19:47   Maybe that plays into the curation, but I know that there's always been a curation element.

00:19:51   What's kind of different about this is they put lengthy editor's notes in this first spotlight,

00:19:58   which is for a podcast called Celebrity Book Club by Chelsea Devanteze.

00:20:04   This is the first Apple podcast spotlight and then they wrote a big thing about why

00:20:07   they're picking it. I imagine this could be the start of a potential redesign of Apple

00:20:15   Podcasts that makes it more like the App Store with editorial stuff. You know, like when

00:20:19   you go into the App Store and they've got all those little stories. I could imagine

00:20:22   them doing that with podcasts just because there's so much content. They could quite

00:20:26   easily make these like, "Hey, here's a bunch of shows about this." Because again, they

00:20:30   already do this. There are categories on the podcasts directory. I could imagine them maybe

00:20:36   wanting to expand it out a little bit more than what they've currently got and

00:20:41   this could be the start of that. I think it's definitely gonna be something they

00:20:44   do more and more. I mean there's even some of that in Apple Music right? So I

00:20:48   think that this follows that logic pretty well. We spoke about AirPods Max a

00:20:55   little bit ago. iFixit did a teardown and came across some weird stuff I guess

00:21:02   is maybe the best way to describe it. So they found out that you can take the

00:21:09   headband off by of the of the like the ear cups by removing the magnetic ear

00:21:16   cups and then using a sim ejector tool you poke it in a hole and you can pull

00:21:21   out the headband from the ear cup and this seems like you know it's like a

00:21:26   weird thing and you know I've seen people say like aha this is gonna allow

00:21:30   for people to change their headbands.

00:21:33   And that didn't make any sense to me

00:21:34   because it's like it feels very much

00:21:36   like a service thing like the Apple

00:21:38   Watch data port, right?

00:21:40   That like you can pop open this

00:21:42   little door on an Apple Watch

00:21:43   and someone can stick

00:21:45   a cable in it.

00:21:47   And now like you can

00:21:50   do some.

00:21:51   Sorry, I just punched my microphone

00:21:52   literally into my face.

00:21:54   I actually got quite a little bit.

00:21:56   I got so excited about the Apple

00:21:58   the AirPods.

00:21:59   I punched myself in the face with my microphone.

00:22:01   You know, you can do that with the services thing for like

00:22:12   for the Apple Watch, they can plug it in Apple support

00:22:15   and they can do the diagnostics or whatever.

00:22:17   So I just figured that this is a similar thing, right?

00:22:19   Because it seems like such a weird thing to do.

00:22:21   But the nine to five Mac found code in iOS 4.4

00:22:25   that can detect a headphone band type,

00:22:29   Which made me go back to thinking about the original report, right?

00:22:32   That Mark Gurman put out ages ago about multiple material options and then apparently there were some kind of delays.

00:22:39   I wanted to know what you guys thought because now people are like "aha maybe you can change the headbands"

00:22:44   but this seems like too weird and tricky still as a way to do it?

00:22:49   Yeah, it feels like it requires too many steps. I don't know.

00:22:57   I'm intrigued by it because of the whole idea of, obviously we talked about this months ago,

00:23:04   like perhaps you want to have a headband for running and a headband for different types of

00:23:09   workouts or just different materials, different colors, whatever. And software being

00:23:14   aware of it means maybe it can detect and it can adjust certain types of workouts, for example,

00:23:24   if there's going to be a support headband. That was the idea at the time. Now obviously, like,

00:23:29   the procedure for changing the headband, I'm not sure about it because it feels like a very hacky

00:23:37   way to do it. It's very different from magnetic ear cups, right? Like, one is magnets, the other is...

00:23:43   Or changing a watch band, right? Yeah, the others. Just grab your sim ejector tool, like, okay.

00:23:51   I continue to be intrigued by the idea. I'm not sure how exactly Apple could deliver on it.

00:23:57   Like, we're just speculating here. Oh, wouldn't it be cool if you had a headband just for workouts?

00:24:02   Yes, it would be cool, but what would it actually mean in practice? We don't know.

00:24:05   But still, the way that they do it, the iFixit folks do it, I don't think there's going to be

00:24:12   an official way for consumers to do it. I just got a sim ejector tool.

00:24:16   Do it. Do you want me to try it?

00:24:17   Yes. You should do it live.

00:24:19   I'm doing it. Oh god. The Apple sim ejector tool is not long enough.

00:24:24   Maybe like a safety pin or paper clip? Oh no no it is long enough. No it's not. No it's not.

00:24:30   No it's not. No it's not. No I'm not gonna keep trying it. I've decided.

00:24:34   Well just keep digging around inside your $3,000 headphones.

00:24:37   Yeah tried it a little bit. Not gonna try it any more than that. Oh god I bent this sim

00:24:42   ejector tool a little bit. Oh no. I'm done. I'm done. I couldn't find mine and my replacement

00:24:48   phone oddly didn't it come with one of the box so I used a safety pin this morning to move my sim

00:24:52   card over but it worked that's weird that a replacement phone wouldn't come with the sim

00:24:57   ejector tool yeah I looked through all the paperwork unless I just missed it did I send it in a regular

00:25:02   box it's in a cardboard box and inside that's like a white service box oh so it's not like a proper

00:25:08   iphone box no no no no it's a service that's why the iFixit teardown is super interesting I mean

00:25:14   This thing is vastly over-engineered.

00:25:18   It is what you expect from Apple,

00:25:22   but we don't often see it in something like headphones.

00:25:27   Like, yeah, the Mac Pro is over-engineered,

00:25:29   but it doesn't have a much of moving parts

00:25:32   and springs and stuff.

00:25:34   The thing that really jumped out at me

00:25:37   is the connection between the two sides.

00:25:39   So obviously there has to be some sort of connection

00:25:42   between the two for power and charging and all that stuff.

00:25:47   So Apple uses an electromechanical hinge.

00:25:51   This thing has a flex cable

00:25:55   that is in the rotating portion of the joint.

00:25:58   So if you have the AirPod Max,

00:26:00   it's kind of like a ball and shoulder type joint there.

00:26:04   And there's springs and switches

00:26:07   to help keep the cable from breaking down

00:26:11   as the AirPod, I guess the ear cups and the band move

00:26:15   independently of each other.

00:26:17   And there are these two large springs

00:26:19   that do the clamping pressure.

00:26:22   And all this has to be designed as they pointed out,

00:26:24   something I didn't think of,

00:26:26   which is why I'm not a hardware designer at Apple, I guess,

00:26:28   probably just this one reason,

00:26:30   that anything inside these ear cups has to survive

00:26:35   over the course of its lifespan,

00:26:38   hours and hours of vibration because of the driver in the ear cups, right? So everything in here is

00:26:46   moving or vibrating and it all has to work and not break down and screws can't come loose and

00:26:53   there's actually way more screws than this than I thought. I kind of thought it'd all be glued

00:26:56   together and there's, it seems relatively easy for the most part to take apart if you have the right

00:27:02   bits and kind of know what you're doing. The whole thing was very impressive to me. I can't believe

00:27:07   that it got a six out of ten for repairability from iFixit. This seems like a high score these days.

00:27:14   You know, like over-engineered is it sounds negative, right? That phrase.

00:27:23   It doesn't necessarily mean it's negative, but there is... it's over-engineered compared to

00:27:33   other products. Like, in the iFixit teardown, they open up one of the Sony headphones.

00:27:39   The insides, and like the, I think Bose ones too, the insides of them just look so much more simple.

00:27:46   Now, you can make a very good argument that like the over-engineering there is like, well,

00:27:52   the Sony ones also sound really good and they didn't need to go to the wild lengths that Apple

00:27:58   have gone to, but this is just the way that they do things. Every company makes things differently

00:28:06   and Apple is starting from a different place. They're like, "We make computers, now we'll make

00:28:12   headphones." And maybe that means that you end up doing things in a way which is complicated,

00:28:21   but does result in a great product.

00:28:24   It's not like the over-engineering is pointless,

00:28:28   but it can also then explain why these are so expensive

00:28:31   because they seem to be very complicated to make.

00:28:36   - Well, that's why these things feel so premium, right?

00:28:40   Premium is about how something feels in your hand

00:28:43   and how it moves.

00:28:44   Apple really cares about that sort of thing.

00:28:47   And all of this engineering is what makes that possible,

00:28:50   right?

00:28:51   like flimsy plastic because there's no flimsy plastic in them.

00:28:54   And they're heavy and you can see looking at this

00:28:58   why they're so heavy because they're built like tanks.

00:29:01   So we're like a what, a couple of months

00:29:04   into these being out, like are y'all still

00:29:07   in love with them?

00:29:08   Are you using them a bunch?

00:29:09   'Cause I've returned mine, I like to kind of check in

00:29:11   and see how it's going.

00:29:12   - I use them every day, I love them.

00:29:15   Every day I use them.

00:29:17   - Yeah, I really like them.

00:29:18   I basically listen to them, yeah, nearly every day.

00:29:22   I was actually looking for replacement ear pads

00:29:25   the other day because I wanted to mix and match

00:29:27   the black and red colors,

00:29:29   but those are still not available on the Apple Store.

00:29:32   But yeah, I like them.

00:29:33   I like them.

00:29:33   I'm a big fan of the digital crown approach.

00:29:37   As time goes on,

00:29:38   I really think that's a genius way to do it.

00:29:41   Just because I know how much I dislike gestures

00:29:45   and these finicky controls on other headphones.

00:29:48   So having this physical volume knob up there,

00:29:54   it's really well done.

00:29:55   It's really nice.

00:29:56   I don't particularly use noise cancellation these days,

00:29:59   because it's not like I'm on a train or on a plane

00:30:02   or somewhere, just at home.

00:30:04   There's not much noise to cancel these days.

00:30:08   But yeah, the volume works really well,

00:30:10   and the sound is fantastic.

00:30:13   I confirm my judgment from a few weeks back.

00:30:17   These are the best wireless headphones I've ever had.

00:30:21   And I don't use Siri, so I don't care about that part.

00:30:24   I just use it with Spotify and watching the occasional video.

00:30:28   Sometimes with my Apple TV, works totally OK.

00:30:31   So yeah, great sound.

00:30:33   Could be cheaper, I guess, but also the built quality,

00:30:36   it speaks for itself.

00:30:37   It's like wearing a HomePod around your head, basically.

00:30:41   So, you know, you pay for that kind of experience.

00:30:46   And that kind of build quality as well.

00:30:48   - Anything else with the AirPods Max?

00:30:52   - Well, I guess the only thing I wanna say is,

00:30:55   I'm curious to see if this is the kind of product

00:30:57   that will be updated in a few years.

00:31:00   Because if this is the kind of build quality

00:31:02   that we see in this first version,

00:31:04   it feels to me again, comparing to the HomePod,

00:31:08   to the first generation HomePod,

00:31:10   This feels to me like the once every X years kind of accessory.

00:31:16   I would be very surprised, I would be possibly surprised if this follow an annual update schedule like other AirPods.

00:31:24   I'm just very skeptical about that, given the nature of, you know, and the price of what this is.

00:31:32   I reckon it's every couple of years.

00:31:34   Yeah, that seems more likely, you know.

00:31:37   Because the AirPods Pro have passed a year, right?

00:31:40   Don't they announce in like October or something of 2019?

00:31:45   Yeah, I think so.

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00:33:09   How's your Mac Pro feeling?

00:33:11   It's great.

00:33:12   I can touch the handle right now.

00:33:14   It's very smooth, it's cool to the touch.

00:33:17   Don't touch it too much in case it rolls away and all your cables unplug.

00:33:19   It's got wheels.

00:33:21   Do you lock those wheels in any way?

00:33:22   Do you do anything to stop it from moving?

00:33:25   No, but it's on a rug and so it's not really going to go anywhere on its own.

00:33:31   So how are you feeling about this Mark Gorman report?

00:33:33   I think it's really interesting.

00:33:35   Gurman has been doing a lot of reporting

00:33:37   and y'all broke a lot of it down on upgrade on Monday,

00:33:41   which was a really, really good episode.

00:33:43   The report says a couple of things.

00:33:45   So it says that there's two Mac Pros in the works.

00:33:50   One is full-sized, meaning the enclosure looks

00:33:55   the way that the 2019 enclosure looks,

00:33:57   you know, the big, big tower.

00:33:59   And that there's discussion with an Apple

00:34:01   that that machine may come with an Intel processor.

00:34:05   There's also this second model, which is more mysterious,

00:34:08   that is quote, half-sized,

00:34:10   which is a term he used previously in another report.

00:34:14   This report, he likens it to the design

00:34:16   of the Power Mac G4 Cube,

00:34:18   and says that it is also a Mac Pro, but obviously smaller.

00:34:23   When you look at what is inside a Mac Pro,

00:34:26   it is mostly air until you fill it up with PCI cards.

00:34:31   or MPX modules, which are just Apple's fancy PCI modules that also use

00:34:36   Thunderbolt and Apple uses them for their GPUs. So in my Mac Pro for instance, I've

00:34:41   got the GPU, I've got an afterburner, and I have a card with some SSDs on it. So

00:34:49   I'm using a good bit of mine. Mine has less air in it than it did when I first

00:34:53   got it, and I have two hard drives up at the top. In thinking about the first

00:34:59   one saying that there's another full-size machine with an Intel processor

00:35:04   in it. That seems to me like a spec bump of the 2019 Mac Pro. Yeah. I think that

00:35:11   makes sense for a couple of reasons. The Mac Pro is always gonna go last and so

00:35:16   if Apple does take two years the Mac Pro at that point would be three and a half

00:35:23   years old or so I think mm-hmm two and a half years old it would be getting

00:35:29   older at that point there are people who need to stay on the previous architecture

00:35:36   it was a huge deal power PC to Intel people needed to stay on power PC for

00:35:41   certain reasons the things that Rosetta couldn't handle or hardware support for

00:35:46   something weird or something like that this time around you not only have an

00:35:50   architecture change, but you also have the fact that in Big Sur and moving

00:35:56   forward, the way kernel extensions are handled is different. And if you're a pro

00:36:02   using pro apps that use kernel extensions, you could get locked out of

00:36:06   those in the future. And if your software isn't super actively developed, that

00:36:10   could be a problem. And so there are people, there's not many of them, out of

00:36:13   the Mac Pro community, which is not many people to begin with, a subsection of

00:36:18   them would maybe want to stay on Intel longer and want a as new of an Intel Mac

00:36:26   as possible. Now from Apple's perspective I don't know how much sense that makes. I

00:36:31   think it makes some sense from the consumers perspective but from Apple's

00:36:36   perspective it does a couple things. One you're putting an Intel machine out and

00:36:39   you probably just don't want to do that but it also resets the clock on how long

00:36:45   you need to support Intel hardware in your OSes. So in the PowerPC to Intel

00:36:51   transition, Tiger ran on PowerPC and Intel, Leopard ran on PowerPC and Intel,

00:36:58   but Snow Leopard did not. Snow Leopard dropped support for PowerPC and it was

00:37:04   Intel only and it was only, let's see, Snow Leopard was in 2009, so it was really

00:37:13   only a few years after the first Intel Macs shipped, three years. I don't think Apple

00:37:21   could get away with revising a Mac Pro or any Intel Mac in 2021 and drop them in 2024,

00:37:30   especially if it's high end hardware. Now, the the caveat to that is Apple only supports

00:37:38   It's current release minus two for security updates.

00:37:41   So right now we have Big Sur, Catalina,

00:37:44   and Mojave are getting security updates.

00:37:47   High Sierra is not anymore.

00:37:49   So three years does rule out the security update issue,

00:37:54   but it just seems to me that if they're gonna say,

00:37:58   "Hey, there's gonna be one last Intel Mac,

00:38:00   and it's an upgrade to the best Intel Mac we ever made,"

00:38:04   it seems to me that puts Apple on the hook

00:38:07   for another year or two of OS support for Intel Macs.

00:38:12   I don't know if that's a concern of theirs.

00:38:15   Part of me already thinks that Mac OS

00:38:19   is gonna support Intel Macs longer

00:38:21   than Mac OS X supported PowerPC Macs

00:38:24   because there are way more Intel Macs out there

00:38:27   than there ever were PowerPC Macs, right?

00:38:30   They operate at such a bigger scale now,

00:38:33   it's a lot more people to make mad.

00:38:35   So I don't know.

00:38:36   Hey Federico, do you remember two weeks ago when Steven said that there would be no more

00:38:46   Intel Macs on sale at the end of 2021?

00:38:49   I remember that.

00:38:50   Yeah.

00:38:51   That was fun, right?

00:38:52   That was fun at the time.

00:38:53   Super fun.

00:38:54   It's aging really well.

00:38:55   It's extra fun now.

00:38:56   Yeah.

00:38:57   It's going really well for you, man.

00:38:59   Yeah, you've had a great start to the year.

00:39:01   It really seems like annual picks die quickly or at the very end of the year.

00:39:06   There's no in between.

00:39:08   They get solved very fast and then nothing happens for a long time and then it's all

00:39:14   in September.

00:39:17   So the longevity of Intel Macs is a question for me and this rumored Intel Mac Pro spec

00:39:25   bump definitely plays into that.

00:39:29   I don't even know if the 2019 Mac Pro needs a spec bump. I mean, if you could do anything,

00:39:34   do what you did with the iMac Pro, get rid of the slowest CPU, or you know, the fewest

00:39:40   core CPU and just bump the prices accordingly. Right? Or do that with a GPU, not a spec bump,

00:39:47   but a configuration change to make it a little bit better value.

00:39:51   Are there new Intel chips they could put in these?

00:39:53   I don't follow the Xeon W landscape very well, but maybe.

00:39:58   I mean, I don't know. I just don't know that answer to that.

00:40:01   Maybe if someone does let us know.

00:40:03   They could have new MPX modules or something.

00:40:07   Yeah. And they have, they've had newer GPU's.

00:40:09   The GPU I have in mind wasn't for sale on day one.

00:40:12   That's all they've done with MPX modules.

00:40:15   There hasn't been like an afterburner for audio or, you know,

00:40:18   any of the other wild stuff we dreamed of,

00:40:20   But they have begrudgingly released some new GPUs.

00:40:26   But even the high-end stuff, there's

00:40:27   new AMD stuff they haven't made into an MPX module yet.

00:40:32   So I don't know.

00:40:33   I mean, my plan when I bought this machine-- look,

00:40:35   I bought this at the end of 2019.

00:40:37   And it was heavily rumored that Apple

00:40:40   was going to go with Apple Silicon at some point.

00:40:43   And they did it six months later, right?

00:40:45   They did it one year after announcing the 2019 Mac Pro.

00:40:49   My plan is to run this until I can't put new versions

00:40:52   of Mac OS on it anymore, and then I'll reconsider.

00:40:56   So for me, none of this really changes my decision

00:40:59   and the way that I plan on using this machine

00:41:01   for years to come.

00:41:02   This is not a machine I can casually change out

00:41:04   like a laptop, like way too much money into it for that.

00:41:08   - Mark it.

00:41:09   - Yeah, please save this clip.

00:41:11   - Everybody, what is it, episode 329.

00:41:17   He's gonna find a way or justification for getting the new Mac Pro.

00:41:24   I have...

00:41:25   We all know.

00:41:26   I have a second desk and that desk needs a Mac Pro on it.

00:41:31   So yeah somehow because like he's gonna make his studio bigger and well what you gotta

00:41:39   do with all that room am I right?

00:41:41   So he's gonna find a way to to get it and I don't even know why you say these things

00:41:47   anymore. Yeah, you shouldn't say them so definitively like that, because look, what they are announcing

00:41:54   is a computer you are going to be very excited about, like a G4 Cube-esque Mac Pro with power

00:42:02   by Apple Silicon. I mean, even I want it, and I have no use for it. I absolutely do

00:42:11   not need it, but I kind of want it, so. Me too, I'm like in for it. So the second part

00:42:17   of this report is that there is a half size Mac Pro in the works, powered by Apple silicon.

00:42:24   So if you go back to my opening, if a Mac Pro basically ships as a as an aluminum box

00:42:29   full of air, and it's your job to displace that air with technology, half size smaller

00:42:34   Mac Pro, whether it's cube shaped or not.

00:42:38   And like can we just say you said this on upgrade, I want to say it here.

00:42:41   Apple's never done a successful small Pro desktop machine.

00:42:45   They just haven't.

00:42:46   The Cube failed.

00:42:48   2013 Mac Pro failed miserably.

00:42:51   Whatever.

00:42:52   We'll see what this does.

00:42:54   So the question is, if it's smaller, what do they get rid of?

00:42:57   How do they reduce the amount of air they ship in this machine?

00:43:02   And the clear answer is, fewer expansion slots.

00:43:05   Because if you look at the inside of the Mac Pro, if you think, well, okay, well, the CPU

00:43:09   could be smaller, whatever, like, the CPU takes up very little space inside this tower.

00:43:15   Very little.

00:43:17   And the power supply's in the bottom.

00:43:19   So you still have a power supply.

00:43:21   It'd be smaller, I would assume,

00:43:22   but it's not like it eats into the space.

00:43:25   It's video cards and expansion slots,

00:43:27   so expansion cards that take up space.

00:43:31   And if you think about where Apple Silicon is today,

00:43:35   right now, okay, right now you have CPU, GPU,

00:43:40   and memory basically shipping as a unit, right?

00:43:45   The memory is slightly off to the side,

00:43:47   but system-on-a-chip design is very different

00:43:50   than what's in the Intel machines,

00:43:52   especially the Mac Pro,

00:43:53   where there are actually different parts.

00:43:56   I don't think that Apple could half the size of the Mac Pro

00:44:01   without fundamentally changing the way that it works.

00:44:09   So would this Mac Pro come with an Apple GPU

00:44:13   that's built in somehow?

00:44:15   Well, my thinking was, because I mean, there's been lots of reports that Apple

00:44:19   are developing their own GPUs, right?

00:44:21   For these more powerful machines.

00:44:23   So like the iMacs and potentially the Mac Pros, that it would be Apple made

00:44:28   GPUs. And one of the ways that you make this smaller is you don't need all of

00:44:33   the huge hardware for GPUs anymore.

00:44:34   But I don't think that the GPUs will be all integrated.

00:44:37   Like I could imagine much smaller Apple built modules for GPU,

00:44:43   upgrades. It could be that they're all one slot tall, right, where the

00:44:50   MPX modules are tall. Or they lean on eGPUs as well, as a

00:44:56   potential future option for this. I mean maybe. I think if you're gonna build a

00:45:00   tower, like what's the point of an eGPU? That's not much of a tower, is it?

00:45:04   No, it's not. And so far, you know, we should comment so far that this is what

00:45:12   the Apple Silicon machines look like. They don't support eGPU, it's all system

00:45:16   on a chip. That doesn't mean that will always be true, but it's true right now.

00:45:20   It's like we're in this weird middle state right now. Also in this middle

00:45:25   state we have the issue of, well, if you want a really different Apple Silicon

00:45:31   machine, like the options are very limited and how you can customize what

00:45:36   it is. Like we're at the very beginning of this. Seeing how it's gonna flesh out

00:45:40   we just don't know.

00:45:42   But knowing the size of the potential future Mac Pro

00:45:45   may help us understand that,

00:45:47   yeah, maybe the GP won't be upgradable

00:45:50   or it can be way smaller 'cause it can run cooler.

00:45:53   I mean, the MPX modules are so tall

00:45:56   because it's all heat sink and the fans of the case cool it.

00:46:00   But if Apple can make something that runs cooler,

00:46:03   maybe they don't need that.

00:46:04   There's also in this state of,

00:46:07   we don't really know what's gonna happen in the future.

00:46:09   currently there's no support for any non-Apple GPUs

00:46:14   in the Apple Silicon version of Big Sur.

00:46:17   Not just no eGPUs on Apple Silicon Macs,

00:46:21   no third-party GPUs whatsoever.

00:46:24   And so if they were to open this up to AMD

00:46:27   to build graphic cards for,

00:46:29   that would need to be addressed too.

00:46:31   So it's kind of hard to really estimate

00:46:33   what's gonna happen,

00:46:34   but clearly it would ship, I think, with fewer slots.

00:46:39   And Apple knows how many slots most people are using,

00:46:42   I would assume.

00:46:43   I would assume they collect that data.

00:46:44   And so maybe they say, oh gosh,

00:46:46   95% of 2019 Mac Pro owners,

00:46:50   the only thing they've put in it is a GPU.

00:46:52   You know, maybe I'm unusual that I have a GPU

00:46:55   and an afterburner card and a PCI card in it

00:46:58   with solid state drives on it.

00:47:00   Maybe I'm the odd one out, I don't know.

00:47:03   I mean, very curious.

00:47:04   I have questions for people that bought that machine

00:47:06   and haven't put anything in it.

00:47:08   Mm-hmm. What are you doing?

00:47:10   Like, I don't know why you bought it.

00:47:13   Like, even if you buy it and just, like, put stuff in it because it's fun to put stuff in it, you know?

00:47:19   Like, you don't have to put all those drives inside, but you want to put them inside,

00:47:23   because it's fun to put them inside, and you have this big computer. Why not put them inside, right?

00:47:26   Like, you could just as easily put them on the outside. But why would you? You've got this huge case.

00:47:31   But I do wonder if like, if Apple are gonna build

00:47:36   every part of it, which they might, right?

00:47:40   Like it's all stuff they make,

00:47:43   maybe they can make it more efficient and smaller.

00:47:45   Maybe it doesn't need to be so big

00:47:46   because it doesn't need the airflow, right?

00:47:48   - I mean, I mean, maybe if you look at the--

00:47:49   - Maybe that's one of the reasons everything's so big.

00:47:51   - Well, if you look at the fans,

00:47:54   there's three fans on the front.

00:47:55   The top one goes through the CPU

00:47:58   and that space where the hard drives go,

00:48:00   if you put that metal bracket in it.

00:48:02   The bottom two cool anything you put in the PCI slots.

00:48:06   And then you have a blower on the other side

00:48:08   that cools the RAM.

00:48:09   I think for it to be a Mac Pro,

00:48:12   for them to use that name and people not riot

00:48:15   outside of Apple Park, the RAM has to be upgradable,

00:48:19   the storage needs to be expandable,

00:48:22   and you need some slots.

00:48:23   Even if you can only buy GPUs from Apple,

00:48:27   even if it's not the GPU,

00:48:28   People need input Apple cards.

00:48:31   It's all the stuff we talked about in 2013

00:48:33   that that Mac Pro failed to do.

00:48:34   Lots of professionals need various hardware cards

00:48:37   to put inside the machine.

00:48:39   So I don't know, it's really interesting.

00:48:42   And it would be interesting for Apple to ship something

00:48:45   that you could put on your desk,

00:48:46   that you could hide behind your Pro Display or whatever,

00:48:49   and it'd be quiet and all that stuff.

00:48:51   And the current Mac Pro is silent most of the time,

00:48:54   but it is enormous.

00:48:55   - And it's like, look, it's worth noting,

00:48:57   like mini ITX or micro ITX boards, like can PCs exist?

00:49:01   Oh yeah.

00:49:01   Like small form factor PCs that you can put massive graphics cards in,

00:49:06   right? Like this isn't like a, uh, there,

00:49:10   there are no computers of these smaller sizes.

00:49:13   And so like that's the kind of size we could be going for here,

00:49:16   which would be about half the size of the Mac Pro.

00:49:19   Cause the Mac Pro is ginormous, right? Like in PC standards,

00:49:23   It's very big and it is.

00:49:26   PC cases run the size gamut now.

00:49:29   And so they could still build something that is really expandable and really

00:49:34   small. Like it's very much possible to do that.

00:49:38   We're just going to see,

00:49:40   I have a lot of faith in this because I do not think that the same company

00:49:45   that made the Mac Pro would make a new Pro Mac that didn't have

00:49:50   sufficient expandability to it.

00:49:52   even if you can only buy the expandability from Apple,

00:49:56   because they're gonna make everything

00:49:57   really specific and custom,

00:49:59   I still believe that there will be expandability,

00:50:01   sufficient expandability to this machine.

00:50:03   Otherwise, what was the point?

00:50:06   - Yeah. - Right?

00:50:07   - Yeah. - What was the point

00:50:07   in spending all this money and time

00:50:10   in building the Mac Pro,

00:50:11   when the iMac Pro would have done the job for most people,

00:50:15   and over time everyone would have just given up,

00:50:17   like they would have just stopped caring, right?

00:50:19   Like, so the iMac Pro was the plan.

00:50:22   They could have chose to stick with that plan if they wanted to.

00:50:26   And they wouldn't create the Mac Pro and have it be a one and done.

00:50:31   Like they, they never would have done that.

00:50:34   They would have just stuck with the iMac Pro and they would have just moved

00:50:37   forward into the all iMac future. Right?

00:50:39   Like it would be absolutely bananas for them to have spent all that time making

00:50:46   all of the infrastructure necessary to make a computer that can do what the Mac Pro can

00:50:50   do and then just abandon it. I reckon they're going to have two. That's what I think they're

00:50:54   going to have. I think they'll have a smaller one and a bigger one. Yeah, that's where I

00:50:58   if I could put my finger on it. That's where I think they're going to go. And the bigger

00:51:01   one would have more slots and be somehow more capable you think? Yeah, I think it would

00:51:06   be honestly I think that the small Mac Pro would probably sit capability wise kind of

00:51:12   around where we think of the iMac Pro now. And then they have the Mac Pro sitting where

00:51:18   the Mac Pro sits because there is a big price gap. Right. And I think they will plug that

00:51:24   price gap. They'll have iMacs and the iMacs can be super powerful. They'll also have this

00:51:28   Mac Pro Mini, whatever they'll call it. And then they'll have the Mac Pro as well. And

00:51:34   then that will be that because as well, the other rumors they're making a monitor. So,

00:51:38   know that you don't need to buy the Pro Display XDR to have an Apple monitor.

00:51:43   So I reckon that that I still reckon I'll have both.

00:51:47   I don't think that the small one will replace the big one because I also can't imagine them

00:51:52   introducing the small one and saying this is the new one.

00:51:55   Oh, and by the way, we've revved the old one.

00:51:58   Yeah.

00:51:59   It just seems really weird to me.

00:52:00   Yeah.

00:52:01   I mean, if I had to put money on it today, I would say there's not an Intel update coming

00:52:07   and that these are either two concepts that are fighting it out or there will be a Mac Pro and

00:52:13   then something smaller in between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro. You know the X Mac which people wanted

00:52:19   for 20 years maybe it's finally going to happen. So the other thing was that new display. Federico,

00:52:26   I was just wondering from your perspective like because I know that you would I could imagine that

00:52:32   of everything you would be most likely in the market for the display right like I know that

00:52:37   they announced MacBook Pro potentials and I know that you'd spoken about Sylvia wanting

00:52:42   a new MacBook Pro and that kind of feels like would be the logical next step but I was wondering

00:52:47   specifically about the display. Do you have any kind of like a feature list for this?

00:52:54   Well if they can make it nicer than the ultra fine that I have which is this ugly piece

00:52:59   of plastic that would be a good start. I guess I wouldn't I would love to have like a beautiful

00:53:06   display like thin bezels, not made of black plastic, something more elegant, more tasteful

00:53:14   than what I have. And in terms of features and specs, as long as it works with both,

00:53:20   whatever it's called, Thunderbolt and USB-C for the iPad Pro, like that, you know, to

00:53:26   have the same experience that I have with the Ultrafine, that would be cool.

00:53:31   Well I guess the expectation is that it would be Thunderbolt 4 which does unify the specs, right?

00:53:37   Right.

00:53:37   That would be my expectation because that's what's in the M1 Max so...

00:53:42   Right.

00:53:42   You would assume that that's what the monitor would be too.

00:53:45   But the iPad Pro doesn't have Thunderbolt 4.

00:53:48   No but it's USB-C. The point is that Thunderbolt 4, my understanding is Thunderbolt 4

00:53:54   unifies them both so it works the same, I believe.

00:53:59   I think that's right. That is a very confusing topic.

00:54:03   Right. Does anyone max not have Thunderbolt 4? What has Thunderbolt 4?

00:54:06   Something has Thunderbolt 4.

00:54:08   They have... So Apple calls it Thunderbolt 3 USB 4.

00:54:11   USB 4, sorry. USB 4. USB 4. I got it mixed around. So USB 4 is both Thunderbolt and USB C.

00:54:21   It's like all of it in one.

00:54:22   Yes.

00:54:23   I believe that's the case.

00:54:25   I believe that is true.

00:54:26   So there'll probably be USB 4 and then it can be all of it. That would be my expectation.

00:54:31   It'd just be the same kind of... It's very confusing.

00:54:34   In any case, that, whatever the name of the spec is...

00:54:39   Whatever that is.

00:54:41   And I wouldn't mind... This is something that I've started seeing in a bunch of like third-party

00:54:46   displays and accessories. I would love to have a wireless charging station in the foot of the display.

00:54:54   Ooh, yeah.

00:54:56   Like, that feels like a useless waste of space, right?

00:54:59   Right now I'm just leaving stuff there in the base of the ultra-fine display that I have.

00:55:06   Like, my Walkman and my Sony earbuds are just there, because why not?

00:55:12   Make it useful. Make that part useful. Or make it smaller.

00:55:16   So, either it's smaller somehow, but I mean, if you've got to support a display,

00:55:20   you still gotta have a base acting as support.

00:55:25   So if it has to exist, at least give it some purpose,

00:55:29   give it some utility, you know?

00:55:31   - Maybe that's how they make you pay for a stand.

00:55:34   Like the regular stand is just normal.

00:55:38   - Look, they can call it the smart stand for all I care.

00:55:41   And I'm gonna pay for it.

00:55:42   - You pay a little bit and it's got a MagSafe.

00:55:45   - Yeah, MagSafe, you know, I can throw my AirPods,

00:55:47   my phone, whatever.

00:55:49   Just give it some purpose in terms of other Apple devices.

00:55:53   That would be kind of cool.

00:55:55   Anything else?

00:55:56   - I hope so.

00:55:57   Go on, sorry.

00:55:58   - No, I was gonna mention the matte display option,

00:56:01   but that feels like a Pro Display XDR thing with the nano.

00:56:06   - They put it on the iMac.

00:56:07   - Well then maybe there's hope.

00:56:09   - I reckon they would have an option.

00:56:12   Well, here's a question.

00:56:13   I hadn't thought about this.

00:56:14   What about on the MacBook Pro?

00:56:16   - I mean, I think the matte display could come.

00:56:18   It's what a $500 option on the iMac?

00:56:21   It's a thousand on the XDR.

00:56:23   I guess the question is,

00:56:25   is the MacBook Pro more likely to need cleaning

00:56:29   or be more prone to damage?

00:56:31   'Cause there's all that stuff about you gotta clean

00:56:33   the matte display in a very particular way.

00:56:36   And with a desktop that's less likely to get stuff on it,

00:56:40   I mean, like mine's,

00:56:41   like I gotta clean mine all the time

00:56:42   'cause stuff just magically appears on it.

00:56:45   But on a notebook, like what happens

00:56:47   you get a little piece of debris and it gets shut between the palm rest and the screen,

00:56:51   does it break it, does it cause problems?

00:56:54   I would imagine that durability is the primary concern.

00:56:57   Right.

00:56:58   I can imagine them putting it on the monitor though.

00:57:00   I can imagine it being an option for any monitor that they make just because they put it on

00:57:06   the iMac because you will naturally assume that now they've put it on the most recent

00:57:10   iMac that the next iMacs will get it.

00:57:13   And you will also assume that the iMac screen and the whatever display they make is the

00:57:20   same screen panel?

00:57:24   So in theory they should be able to do it, right?

00:57:29   If you kind of follow the logic through it seems like it would be possible.

00:57:33   Yeah I would get that.

00:57:34   I would pay for that.

00:57:35   display support for Mac and iPad at the same time, a stand that has some utility to it

00:57:45   other than just wasting space on my desk. That would be kind of cool.

00:57:49   I would like the adjustability and being able to turn it on its side and stuff.

00:57:53   Oh, well that's kind of default, right? I mean, yes.

00:57:57   These days, yeah.

00:57:58   But we should mention it. Yeah, we shouldn't take it for granted. Yes,

00:58:02   full adjustability.

00:58:03   Because Apple's never done that. Right, right, yes. That's a good point.

00:58:09   Except for what, the G4? I guess the Amac G4? Could you make it portrait?

00:58:14   No. What? No? Just moved around? Okay. I'm really

00:58:18   excited about Maxis here. Well, Sylvia's got in a MacBook Pro, we already

00:58:24   decided. She's gonna sell her 2017 MacBook Pro and as soon as the 14-inch Pro comes out

00:58:32   out, she's gonna get that. So she's gonna upgrade. I mentioned to her the reports from

00:58:41   Gherman and she was really happy to hear about the Touch Bar going away and keys coming back.

00:58:49   The Touch Bar will be the least missed product in Apple's history, I think. Well, maybe not

00:58:55   the most, but up there with some... Can we think of other... Steven, you're the man for

00:59:01   is things that Apple got rid of that people are not missing at all.

00:59:06   Like a feature.

00:59:07   Like a feature.

00:59:08   Oh man.

00:59:09   Like something.

00:59:10   I just gave you an idea for an article.

00:59:11   You're welcome.

00:59:12   Thank you.

00:59:13   Yeah.

00:59:14   Yeah.

00:59:15   But this has got to be up there with that.

00:59:17   I don't know, like the Apple Pencil charging with lightning, for example.

00:59:21   You know, that kind of stuff.

00:59:22   Right.

00:59:23   I mean, the thing is, most of the time that takes years, right?

00:59:25   It's like, oh, now we know SCSI was ridiculous because you needed these cables and terminators

00:59:29   and stuff.

00:59:30   In 1999 when it was going away people were mad. So for things that like fall out of favor quickly

00:59:36   That's got to be a short list

00:59:38   Like is there any other feature that has the same level of criticism as the touch bar? That's interesting

00:59:44   One last thing before we move on. This is circling all the way back around to a mag safe stand

00:59:50   because

00:59:52   What MKBHD had a video about these and he mentioned something that I'd never hadn't thought about like

00:59:59   MagSafe on the iPhone has none of the safe that MagSafe had on the laptops.

01:00:06   Like if you kick that cable your phone is going with the charger.

01:00:11   Right? It is not safe at all. It's more dangerous for your phone because now it's got a weight on the back of it as it hurtles down towards the ground.

01:00:21   Right.

01:00:22   There's no safety with the MagSafe.

01:00:26   It's more dangerous than it ever was before.

01:00:28   - The bag is somewhat safe. - There's no safety! It adds no safety. None of it. It doesn't exist anymore. It's more dangerous now.

01:00:38   - That's a good point. Emma in the Discord mentions, rightfully so, the butterfly keyboard.

01:00:46   - Oh yeah. That is another good one. - They are connected though, right?

01:00:52   Yeah, they're on the same machine. They're on the same surface of the same machine.

01:00:58   That MacBook Pro redesign really did not age well.

01:01:03   As we turn into old men, 10, 15 years from now, and connected like 1200, we will laugh

01:01:11   about that MacBook. Oh, do you remember that MacBook that had all those bad features and

01:01:15   none of them remained?

01:01:16   Yeah. They're just gonna undo all of it.

01:01:20   about it. When you think about it, it's really rough. Yeah. It's bad. So, yeah, Mark Gurman

01:01:26   is just having quite the year. The Mac's having quite the year. Yeah, no, nothing about the

01:01:32   iPad. We're going to talk about another report about the iPhone. He very briefly mentions

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01:03:56   So probably the report that had the least detail in it was one about the iPhone.

01:04:03   So I think this was...

01:04:05   Fold-a-phones!

01:04:06   Three or four Mark Gorman reports and this was the last one of them.

01:04:10   So basically saying that Apple is testing foldable displays for an upcoming device.

01:04:15   They've made basic prototypes but have no plans finalised.

01:04:19   This makes sense.

01:04:21   Of course they're testing it, why wouldn't they?

01:04:23   Right?

01:04:24   I've said it before, it might not pan out, but this is the next form factor that we can

01:04:30   conceive of.

01:04:32   We have phones and we have tablets.

01:04:34   Imagine if we could get something that was in between.

01:04:37   So I wanted to gauge with the two of you what your ideal foldable format would be from Apple.

01:04:46   Because there are a couple of ways these devices can go.

01:04:52   You can have a phone that becomes a tablet, like the Galaxy Z Fold.

01:04:57   You have a small phone, open it up, it's a tablet.

01:05:00   Or you could have a tablet which gets bigger.

01:05:04   You could start off with a 10 inch iPad and then make it a 12 inch iPad.

01:05:09   There's this whole thing, LG just showed off this rollable concept.

01:05:15   Which is, I don't know about this, this seems like a bad idea.

01:05:19   it's basically you have the device and then the device gets bigger like the

01:05:24   screen is kind of like expands it's very peculiar or the other one which is

01:05:30   arguably I think the most successful form factor so far is a flip phone so

01:05:35   you have a small phone which becomes a bigger phone so if you had to choose

01:05:40   even if you want to choose where would you be sitting right now it's like a

01:05:45   a cool Apple device for you?

01:05:47   What is like the ideal?

01:05:49   Like let's not think about reliability.

01:05:52   Let's assume that all of that is solved.

01:05:53   Where could you imagine some kind of adapting screen size

01:05:58   fitting in your life best?

01:06:00   - At the moment I'm leaning toward foldable tablet,

01:06:03   just because I know myself and I know that I would love

01:06:07   to have something small for reading and watching video

01:06:11   that can get bigger when I want to get work done.

01:06:16   So instead of having two tablets,

01:06:21   like an iPad Mini and an iPad Pro,

01:06:23   I could have one tablet that can solve both,

01:06:27   that can work in both scenarios, I guess.

01:06:30   So when I want to have something portable and compact,

01:06:32   but also something bigger for multitasking

01:06:34   and that kind of stuff.

01:06:36   I don't see personally at the moment,

01:06:38   the appeal of a flip phone,

01:06:40   Just because a phone being a device that I take out of my pocket and that I unlock so

01:06:46   many times a day, I don't want to have the friction of unfolding it every single time.

01:06:50   And I don't think that I would like to have a small display if I do not unfold it.

01:06:56   I just like to have a big enough display that I take out of my pocket and it's ready to

01:07:01   use.

01:07:02   So, the flip phone I don't care about.

01:07:05   foldable tablet I'm really intrigued because right now I have two iPads each

01:07:11   serving a different function and I could have one in fact the display was

01:07:17   adjustable. For me then I think I agree with Federico but for a phone I think I

01:07:24   prefer a phone that I can do everything on on a phone size screen and then opens

01:07:31   into like an iPad mini for media experiences or a bigger keyboard or better multitasking.

01:07:38   While I like the idea and I'm nostalgic for the flip phone I once had, to Federico's point,

01:07:45   you have to open it for almost everything.

01:07:49   And I don't necessarily want that interaction every time I need to see the big screen.

01:07:57   Whereas if Apple had an iPhone that's iPhone size and then opened up into a small tablet,

01:08:03   that extra work to open the phone is optional when I want that experience and it's not interfering

01:08:10   with the experience of everyday use.

01:08:13   So I'll say with technology as it is today, the flip phone is the most compelling to use

01:08:20   like from my own use cases because the idea of a phone that becomes a tablet is I think

01:08:27   the most compelling on a daily basis, right? Wouldn't it be great to have one device that

01:08:33   is both your phone and a tablet? But technology right now just doesn't do this elegantly enough.

01:08:39   They're just thick and big. If they can work that out, which I think is possible, I think

01:08:44   that this could be a real winner. And I could imagine this being the area that Apple would

01:08:50   attack. Like I can imagine that this is what they're attacking like a you know

01:08:55   plus sized phone that becomes an iPad mini. That kind of seems like the way to

01:09:01   go but it's this is it's complicated right now because with the current with

01:09:06   technology where it is right now it's two devices in one it's not one device

01:09:11   that gets bigger right you have the phone on the outside and then you open

01:09:15   the device and you've got the tablet because you can't fold glass right now

01:09:21   like it's you can't do it and it still be protected like it still will be

01:09:25   protected so I think this is why Apple is maybe just prototyping like they just

01:09:31   in early stages because the technology's got a long way to go but I think luckily

01:09:36   for the industry Samsung don't care and they're gonna keep making their devices

01:09:41   because that's what's needed I think like for this technology to be pushed

01:09:47   forward there has to be companies like Samsung and LG to a point who are

01:09:51   willing to make devices in public that they'll charge you a lot of money for

01:09:57   that are not finished it's an important part of technology like Samsung did it

01:10:01   with the Note right and then the Note made phone the entire industry's phones

01:10:06   bigger but if Samsung weren't doing it no one would have done it because well

01:10:11   for one Samsung make the displays that a lot of companies use so it's kind of

01:10:16   important that someone's trying it but I just wanted to see where you guys were

01:10:20   I can also agree with Federico that somebody who owns two iPads I would love

01:10:26   just to have one and it's small for like social media stuff big for what I'm

01:10:31   getting work done on it. I think that would be really nice. But I believe this is the

01:10:37   future, but this future is still quite a way away, I think, especially for Apple. I think

01:10:43   we're multiple years, multiple years away from some kind of Apple folding device. But

01:10:49   Mark Gurman does also talk about the 2021 iPhones. It's going to be, it seems very much

01:10:55   an S year in scope. I would just say because Steven's put a note, I don't think that that

01:11:01   means necessarily S year in name I just don't think it means that because one of the things

01:11:08   that they're talking about, well look my friend you're not having a great year so far and

01:11:12   so you know I guess you could take them where you get them. There is apparently talk of

01:11:18   an in-screen fingerprint reader I think that that is a big enough feature on its own to

01:11:23   bump it up a year I do like people will go wild for that especially if they do that because

01:11:30   The touch ID button, right, feels very much like a compromise, right?

01:11:38   You bring touch ID back into a button, put it on the side of the phone.

01:11:43   People will be happy, but it's very much going to feel like

01:11:48   face ID didn't work for you, did it?

01:11:52   If they put it like touch ID into the display, if they do it right,

01:11:59   right? It's gonna be cool. I know it's a feature that exists on every single Android phone

01:12:09   but this is just one of those things that Apple will talk about how magical it is, right?

01:12:14   And how they've done something that nobody else has ever done, right? Because this is

01:12:19   what they do or what they say sometimes but it will at least feel like the technology

01:12:26   moved on than if they just put Touch ID back in a button.

01:12:31   So I can see them doing this.

01:12:33   I think this is probably what they'll do.

01:12:35   They'll make some kind of in-screen fingerprint reader and it'll be cool.

01:12:41   Mark also talks about AirTags still being planned for this year.

01:12:44   Still.

01:12:45   Okay.

01:12:46   With lots of accessories like a little leather pouch, which I guess why not?

01:12:51   Samsung just announced theirs.

01:12:53   I think they're called Galaxy tags or something.

01:12:56   Yeah.

01:12:57   Like their product is going to be available and out there and it's, they're going to have

01:13:01   two versions of them and one of them is going to have ultra wide band in it and all that

01:13:05   kind of stuff.

01:13:06   And they have one that's just Bluetooth.

01:13:08   And then also we were talking about the iPad Pro.

01:13:10   Mark Gurman confirms plans for a mini LED iPad Pro with a much faster processor and

01:13:16   also the thinner entry level iPad.

01:13:19   Not a lot of detail about that because there's things we don't know, right?

01:13:22   Like what is the mini LED iPad?

01:13:25   Is it a 12.9?

01:13:26   Is it both of them?

01:13:27   Is it a third option?

01:13:29   Like the 12.9 splits into two.

01:13:32   There's also no talk of an iPad mini in here.

01:13:36   So not so much detail about the iPad, which is interesting because of all of the things

01:13:42   we've spoken about today, that's probably the first product for this year.

01:13:48   Yeah, I think so.

01:13:50   the entry-level iMac and iPad Pros and the iPad is probably going to be the first products this year.

01:13:57   MacBook Pros likely mid-year and then the Mac Pro, I don't know when. So that's the reports.

01:14:04   Who knows? That's why it's so exciting. I'm having a lot of fun talking about this stuff.

01:14:12   It definitely doesn't seem like 2021 is going to be a calmer year for product releases.

01:14:18   No, it's going to be busy.

01:14:20   Man, Mark Gurman, he's a busy guy.

01:14:22   I mean, Friday, it was like every, I felt like every 30 minutes or something,

01:14:27   there was some new report.

01:14:29   Yeah, I saw someone wrote in to upgrade and gave like a good theory on that

01:14:34   because Ming-Chi Kuo had a report that went out before about the laptops.

01:14:40   And it came out on Friday and it basically spoke about the 14 and 16 inch laptops.

01:14:48   So maybe like Mark was sitting on all this stuff and he was like, well better get it out now

01:14:52   Like maybe that wasn't the plan to release four articles in one day or whatever

01:14:56   uh

01:14:58   So yeah, I maybe that's why I don't know

01:15:01   I think that's it

01:15:04   Okay, if you want to find links to stuff we spoke about head on over to the website relay.fm/connected/329

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01:15:25   Each and every week we do it.

01:15:26   No ads and extra content.

01:15:29   It's a whole lot of fun.

01:15:31   This week we spoke about Footbones, Tidal, and the inauguration.

01:15:37   It was a good time on the pre-show this week.

01:15:39   You can find us all online.

01:15:41   you can find Myke on Twitter as @IMYKE and Myke is the host of a bunch of

01:15:47   shows here on Relay FM. Myke, anything you want to talk about? I'm gonna be

01:15:53   streaming again on Friday at 10 a.m. Eastern at Myke.Live if you want to

01:15:58   come and hang out. Cool. You can find Federico online as well. He is @Vittici on

01:16:03   Twitter V I T I C C I and he is the editor-in-chief of MaxStories.net.

01:16:10   Federico, I have a quick question for you this week.

01:16:12   - Sure. - Just a quick one.

01:16:14   - Quick one, okay.

01:16:15   - What is your least favorite household chore?

01:16:17   - Oh.

01:16:19   I guess, well,

01:16:25   I wanna say cleaning outside.

01:16:31   Just because, I don't know, especially in the winter

01:16:35   when it's cold, I really dislike it.

01:16:39   And I also dislike it in the summer because it's too hot.

01:16:41   So you have no control over the temperature outside.

01:16:45   So cleaning outside, this really sucks in general.

01:16:49   So yeah, that one, just no particular chore,

01:16:53   just having to clean outside in cold or hot weather,

01:16:57   I don't like it.

01:17:00   - You can find me online, I'm ismh on Twitter and on Twitch,

01:17:05   and I write 512pixels.net.

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01:17:13   And until next week guys, say goodbye.

01:17:15   Arrivederci.

01:17:16   Cheerio.