321: Friendship Ended with Myke


00:00:00   [MUSIC]

00:00:08   Hello and welcome to Connected episode 321.

00:00:12   It's made possible by our sponsors, Mack Weldon,

00:00:15   Command to Lion Heroes, Tower, and Hawthorne.

00:00:19   My name is Stephen Hackett and I am joined by Mr. Myke Hurley.

00:00:23   Hello.

00:00:24   Hello.

00:00:25   Are you good?

00:00:26   Yeah.

00:00:27   Yeah.

00:00:28   I was waiting for you to introduce Federico.

00:00:29   I'm never quite sure in these moments, right?

00:00:31   Because I expect you to say, like,

00:00:34   if you want me to say something,

00:00:35   then you would say like, "Hi, how are you?"

00:00:37   But instead you just say, "Hi."

00:00:39   So I say, "Hello."

00:00:40   And then I expect you to go and Federico Vittucci

00:00:42   and then Federico says, "Hello," and then the japes begin.

00:00:45   - But sometimes we do other things, like this time.

00:00:47   - Yeah, but you don't communicate.

00:00:49   It is your job as a host to lead me

00:00:52   into the introduction, you know?

00:00:53   - Yeah.

00:00:54   We're also joined by the much less cranky Federico Vittucci.

00:00:58   - Hello.

00:00:59   How are you cranky Federico? Let me lead you into this introduction. Are you doing well today my friend? I'm doing well

00:01:04   How about you? I'm doing pretty well

00:01:06   Yeah

00:01:08   Are you doing well? See this is how normal humans have a conversation. Yeah, I don't know what Myke's problem is

00:01:13   Yeah, it's been you know, too busy building keyboards. He's lost a human touch. I know. Yeah, I'm more machine than man now. Yes

00:01:24   That's Star Wars reference, Federico. Is it? Mm-hmm. I don't know if it is. It is. Are you sure? Yeah, it's about Darth Vader.

00:01:30   He's more machine now than man.

00:01:34   Yeah.

00:01:36   Obi-Wan Kenobi says it. Yeah, look at that. Yeah, look at me. I'm like Obi-Wan Kenobi.

00:01:40   Exactly like Obi-Wan Kenobi. Who's Obi-Wan Kenobi? Is it Luke's son? Obi-Wan? Yeah. No. Yeah.

00:01:48   Oh, okay.

00:01:50   [Laughter]

00:01:51   Is it? No way, is it?

00:01:53   Yeah, yeah, yeah. It rhymes with sun.

00:01:55   Obi-Wan.

00:01:56   Obi-Wan the sun?

00:01:57   That doesn't rhyme.

00:01:58   Yeah.

00:01:59   You're kidding me, right?

00:02:00   It's not Luke Skywalker's son.

00:02:03   No, that's Boba Fett.

00:02:04   He's Obi-Wan Vader. That's his name.

00:02:06   No, you're trolling me.

00:02:07   Obi-Wan is like his teacher, right?

00:02:10   No.

00:02:12   Well, I don't know.

00:02:13   I don't know what I'm talking about.

00:02:15   I think you're looking for Jojo Binks.

00:02:17   Jojo Binks is the little monster that everybody makes fun of.

00:02:21   Yes. From the movies like from the other three movies in the 2000s.

00:02:27   Super small, really tiny monster.

00:02:30   I don't know about the size, but it's like the monster with the long face.

00:02:34   Yeah, why the long face?

00:02:37   Yeah.

00:02:38   Because everybody hates him.

00:02:40   So George R. Binks is the stupid monster. And Obi-Wan is the teacher, I think.

00:02:51   And Yoda is the teacher monster.

00:02:53   Yeah, they're all monsters.

00:02:55   Well, how do you call them?

00:02:56   Creatures.

00:02:57   Muppets.

00:02:58   And that's the whole story of Star Wars.

00:03:00   They look inside themselves and they see they're monsters, you know?

00:03:02   It's like the whole thing.

00:03:04   We have a lot of cool stuff going on at Relay FM and Adjoining Properties.

00:03:10   So on upgrade 326, Myke, you and Jason had a cool interview with Apple.

00:03:17   You want to tell us a little bit about that?

00:03:19   Yeah, we got to sit down with Tim Millet and Tom Boger.

00:03:23   Tim and Tom! Tom and Tim!

00:03:25   Good friends, Tim and Tom.

00:03:27   We had them on the show a few weeks ago to talk about the A14,

00:03:30   and we had them back on to talk about Apple Silicon at the M1 chip.

00:03:35   So we got to have a long conversation about that, which was really interesting.

00:03:39   One of my favorite parts of the episode is when Tim slips into a little bit of jargon

00:03:44   and starts calling them E-cores and P-cores.

00:03:46   I heard that, yeah.

00:03:48   one of my favorite parts. It's like, "Ooh!" He's talking like he talks internally, which I like.

00:03:53   It's like inside voice outside. But it's a genuine... I really love talking to them.

00:03:59   They're really great. I'm pleased that we got to have them on the show again. It's super interesting.

00:04:03   They give a lot of great information about what it took to build M1. And then it's followed up with

00:04:07   Jason Stenell's review of all of the M1 Macs because he's been using them for about a week.

00:04:12   So bumper episode of Upgrade. Over on Mac Power Users episode 562, David and I

00:04:18   were joined by Kurt Knight. This was Kurt's first podcast. That's always fun to

00:04:22   have an Apple person on for the first time. He's a senior director of

00:04:27   platform product marketing, and we spoke some about the M1 chip but more about

00:04:32   Mac OS Big Sur and how it and the M1 kind of built together. You know Apple

00:04:38   talks about like hardware and software integration and stuff. So we got to talk

00:04:41   about that with Kurt for about half an hour. It was really cool. It's always fun

00:04:47   to talk to people who have spent a lot of time around this stuff but who are

00:04:51   still really excited about what it brings. So I think that interview came

00:04:55   out really well. Dave and I are both really happy with that.

00:04:57   Yeah, super good. On Sunday's MPU, which would be 563, that will be David and I's Big

00:05:03   Sur, like, bumper episode. Our big review of Big Sur. So we... I kind of view 562 and

00:05:11   563 is kind of two parts of a larger thing, talking about Apple Silicon and

00:05:17   Big Sur. So check that out too. We're not gonna have time to really get into Big

00:05:21   Sur today on Connected, so I basically put all my Big Sur stuff into Sunday's

00:05:27   MPU for everyone to enjoy. See, we link to other podcasts as well, because we are

00:05:34   also afraid of antitrust concerns. That's right. We also like to talk about

00:05:40   the competition as well. We're taking 15% less of our fees to link to other

00:05:46   podcasts. Wait, are we? Where does the money go? I mean we own these shows

00:05:50   so it's like just internal rerouting. But Big Sur is out and our friend

00:05:59   and sometimes enemy John Voorhees wrote a really great review of Big Sur. I read

00:06:05   it over the weekend and it is it's really great. I know he spent a lot of

00:06:10   time on it he and I were back and forth like all summer about things so even if

00:06:14   even if you're not running Big Sur yet and you probably shouldn't be it's

00:06:19   definitely a really good review to get kind of what is coming when you hit that

00:06:23   upgrade button so go check that out too. All right so I think that's all of our

00:06:27   follow-up it was actually all follow out so follow out yeah we have a lot of

00:06:32   stuff in this episode we should just say now this is gonna run long we have a

00:06:36   special guest in a little while. My wife Mary is going to join us to talk about

00:06:40   the iPhone 12 mini, but let's start with the HomePod mini. Myke, you and I have

00:06:47   both received tiny HomePods. Federico's, I think yours is on its way to you. On the

00:06:52   way, yes. On the way. Just proving if you would have trusted me, you'd have it

00:06:57   already, because I got mine like three days ago. Well, I don't know about that

00:07:02   that because it still takes a couple of days, right? No, you can do 24 hours. Well, I didn't

00:07:09   want to burden you with the pressure of, you know. Appreciate that. And also you're in

00:07:16   lockdown, so like, yeah, it's better if you... Wow, way to rub it in. What? No, I'm just

00:07:22   looking out for you, come on, oh my god. Hey, I'd love to have a lockdown, we can't get

00:07:26   one over here, so... Anyways, tiny HomePod mini. So Myke, you've had yours for a couple

00:07:31   of days mine showed up yesterday. Yeah. I have to say off the bat it's an

00:07:36   adorable piece of hardware like we got ours in white it's in our bedroom and

00:07:41   the the black just didn't doesn't work with like our dresser and stuff. Even

00:07:45   though I knew the dimensions on Apple's website and I was like okay like it's

00:07:48   gonna be about this big it is really pretty small but it is surprisingly

00:07:53   dense like when you pick it up you know like when you pick up the full home pod

00:07:57   it's a lot heavier than you think it would be. The same is true for the

00:08:01   Mini I think. They're little, it's small but it is dense it's got that kind of

00:08:06   like patented Apple density to their products and it's got that weird like

00:08:12   kind of squishy fabric yeah around the outside. Which I think is the the same as

00:08:19   the HomePod I couldn't really tell any difference. Yeah yeah yeah it seems

00:08:24   similar. What do you think about the sound? Because obviously it's smaller, it

00:08:27   doesn't have near the the speaker capability that the full HomePod has.

00:08:32   What do you think of it? It's not that great in the highs. I find the mids to be

00:08:38   mostly adequate. You know, it's a slight tinny-ness, but it's definitely got some

00:08:42   bass. I don't know what I'm talking about, but as I say that, everyone goes "oh yeah"

00:08:47   if we're going back to that whole conversation again. Like, I played music

00:08:50   on it today and the music sounded like music. Does it sound smaller than a regular home pod?

00:08:55   So what I would say, because I use gold plated home pods, it's important to get the fidelity up.

00:09:02   We really cannot have this conversation on the show. Please do that.

00:09:06   Yeah, it is definitely not as bass heavy as the full home pod is and it doesn't get as loud as

00:09:13   the full home pod does. The full home pod is just too loud, like what do we... that makes me sound

00:09:16   old but it's it can get to ridiculous volume levels but I think for the size

00:09:21   it sounds a lot better than I thought it would and I really don't have any

00:09:26   complaints about it yeah next to my full home pod I had them both in my office

00:09:30   yesterday you know playing the same song back and forth it's definitely not as as

00:09:35   deep and like that sort of bass at the home pod can bring but it's totally fine

00:09:40   for uses like when you just don't need crazy volume and it's small so it

00:09:46   doesn't take over your entire dresser mm-hmm yeah so mine mine will eventually

00:09:52   live at the studio and it's gonna be like my Siri and homekit controller at

00:09:57   the studio like that's that's what I mostly got it for but today while I was

00:10:01   writing my tvOS review I was playing some music I say finalizing my tvOS

00:10:08   I was playing some music, it was sitting next to me on the desk.

00:10:12   It sounded really nice. It sounded really nice.

00:10:15   But I don't know if I could necessarily compare the two,

00:10:18   because I don't have my usual home pods very loud if I ever use them.

00:10:23   So this was more than loud enough.

00:10:26   My home is so much smaller than yours, like in square footage.

00:10:31   So a home pod of any kind is perfectly adequate.

00:10:36   Let me ask you this. Is it small enough so that my girlfriend won't notice that it's

00:10:42   on a desk?

00:10:43   Well, if you put it on a desk in plain sight, she's gonna notice it.

00:10:48   Well, that's the thing though, right?

00:10:49   You can hide it though.

00:10:50   I think if you put it in plain sight and you make it seem like it's an obvious, like it's

00:10:56   been there all along, maybe she won't notice that?

00:11:00   No, because it doesn't look like anything else.

00:11:03   It's a fabric covered sphere.

00:11:05   Yeah, you gotta hide it. Yeah, I'll put it under my display. I think see what happens

00:11:11   Okay, you might be able to hide it like that. That might work. I

00:11:14   Did want to talk a little bit about how home pods and Apple TV?

00:11:18   Interact so there's this new feature

00:11:21   Home theater audio and I assume this is coming in the tvOS review

00:11:26   maybe

00:11:27   Yes, and you can use a home pod or stereo pair

00:11:32   This doesn't work with the HomePod mini, but you can still pair a HomePod mini to the Apple TV

00:11:37   It just doesn't do all this cool new stuff, right? The cool new stuff is is basically

00:11:41   spatial audio

00:11:44   but you can still create a

00:11:46   stereo pair of HomePod minis and play

00:11:50   TV

00:11:52   Audio out to it like AirPlay

00:11:53   Okay

00:11:54   So you can that which is what I used to have before they moved to the home

00:12:00   theater 4k audio thing which is just which is spatial audio. I have a whole

00:12:05   part in that in my review seriously like it's like a whole big thing.

00:12:08   Okay cool so well we'll get into that but we had some questions about that

00:12:11   from people like oh could I hook this up to my TV and well because Apple have

00:12:15   done a very very bad job of explaining it like when they can when you compare

00:12:20   the the home parts together on Apple's website it seems to indicate that you

00:12:25   can't use them for output for the TV but you can it just doesn't get the new

00:12:30   version of that it gets the old version of that so they don't do a very good job

00:12:34   of explaining how how that works yeah it is it's possible to send it out as a

00:12:40   stereo pair and to just airplay the audio out to it but you don't get the

00:12:44   room filling like spatial audio like like sound which I guess makes sense as

00:12:50   the HomePod minis are smaller you know the HomePod has like speakers flying out

00:12:53   every side I imagine it's doing stuff with that to mimic the surround sound

00:12:59   maybe I don't know I've never hooked up a home pod to an Apple TV so it's good

00:13:05   it's me mostly I did have to this is in the notes I did have to buy a new Apple

00:13:09   TV so I guarantee you there's a new one coming now why did you have to do that

00:13:13   again okay so I have had because it died the 2015 so the 1081 but it had the

00:13:22   Siri remote and the apps you know it came out the same announced at the same

00:13:25   time as the big iPad Pro first iPad Pro yep so that was the first tvOS Apple TV

00:13:31   yes right yeah the first like taller one with the Siri remote and so well because

00:13:36   it was just like Apple TV OS before yeah I don't even think it had an aim it was just like

00:13:42   it does this stuff yeah and it's been fine for a long time and Apple the Apple

00:13:47   TV is our television in our house there is a Mac Mini hooked up and now

00:13:51   Switch, but the Apple TV is how we watch stuff. And for a while now it has been

00:13:59   having issues where it still connect to the network, but no it won't do anything.

00:14:04   Like it's like it's offline. And so I would restart it and it would be okay.

00:14:09   And that went on for a while like over the summer. And then I finally did the

00:14:13   thing where like you reset it completely and set it back up and it didn't fix it.

00:14:17   So like something hardware wise was the only thing

00:14:21   I could think of.

00:14:22   I did everything Apple has in their documentation to do.

00:14:24   And it like basically one out of every three times

00:14:28   you turn on the TV, the Apple TV would basically be like

00:14:32   locked up or not be on the network.

00:14:35   And so there was a little bit of a mutiny in my house

00:14:38   over this.

00:14:38   So I ended up getting the Apple TV 4K.

00:14:41   I don't have a 4K television.

00:14:42   I've got an older 1080 TV that we've had like 10 years,

00:14:45   but set it up and the feature where you can tell it

00:14:49   to sync home screens is a great way to migrate

00:14:52   to a new Apple TV.

00:14:53   It's really handy.

00:14:54   - I've used this one as well for my,

00:14:57   the Apple TV that we have in the other room

00:14:59   and it just pulled everything from the other Apple TV.

00:15:02   So that was very nice.

00:15:03   - You don't even like see it, do it.

00:15:05   Like I felt like I went into the settings

00:15:06   and I was doing a couple of things

00:15:07   and then I went home and all the apps were there.

00:15:10   It was really fast.

00:15:12   And the Apple TV 4K, I mean,

00:15:14   I don't know what processors and what but it is a lot faster and more responsive than the old one was so I think it's

00:15:21   an a12

00:15:22   Yeah, maybe the old one was like an a8. Maybe it was a pretty big jump

00:15:25   I think so so yeah, so it's nice, and I'm sure there'll be a new one now any day because I've bought one and

00:15:31   When we eventually end up with a 4k television at some point. I'll be good to go

00:15:36   I'm pretty convinced. It's gonna be a December event now, so they'll probably give it do it then probably

00:15:43   I wonder if it falls under the extended return policy.

00:15:46   Maybe. It probably would.

00:15:48   I think it does.

00:15:49   If you've got that holiday return policy.

00:15:51   Anything else on the HomePod Mini?

00:15:53   It is what it is.

00:15:54   That's kind of as much as I have to say on it.

00:15:56   Right. Oh, it's A10X is the chip that's in it.

00:15:59   OK.

00:16:00   It is what it is.

00:16:02   And what it is is a small HomePod.

00:16:04   And that's great.

00:16:06   That's the full review.

00:16:08   OK.

00:16:08   14.3.

00:16:10   A lot of stuff's going on in 14.3, boys.

00:16:12   I got a few things for you. So the thing that we would expect that would be in the 14.3

00:16:19   beta which I think beta 2 came out today, beta 1 was last week so they're really moving

00:16:24   fast. Beta 2 was yesterday. Ok yesterday. But beta 1 was last week right? So support

00:16:31   for ProRAW, that's the thing you would have expected to be in this. Which makes sense

00:16:36   that that goes in line with whenever Apple's done a sneak peek on a camera thing, the next

00:16:41   version post the phone's shipping tends to have it in there. It has something that

00:16:48   9to5Mac discovered which is third-party app suggestions which basically seems like at

00:16:54   some point Apple will have a system during initial phone setup where it will suggest

00:17:01   apps from third parties for you to download. Can you imagine getting into that list?

00:17:07   - That would be something.

00:17:09   I bet they're gonna just use the curated categories

00:17:11   that they already have on the App Store,

00:17:13   like the curated sections, like note-taking apps.

00:17:16   And you can actually see a subset of those apps

00:17:21   in features like Wind Down in iOS 14.

00:17:25   They do have third-party recommendations,

00:17:27   and I assume it's gonna be something similar.

00:17:28   Like, do you wanna have an alternative note-taking app?

00:17:31   Here's Bear and Evernote and something else.

00:17:34   Do you wanna have a browser?

00:17:35   years of Google Chrome and DuckDuckGo and Firefox.

00:17:39   So I think they're just gonna use the subset

00:17:42   of the curation that they've already done.

00:17:44   Getting that list at setup, it's gonna be huge.

00:17:47   - They have it in the health app too.

00:17:48   It's like, oh, you're interested in this sort of

00:17:50   health metric and I know like pedometer plus plus

00:17:53   has been in there for a long time for underscore.

00:17:56   So yeah, that would be sweet to be in there.

00:17:59   - If you think about it, it's like getting,

00:18:03   being one of the apps that are pre-installed on devices at the Apple store.

00:18:07   But more than that though, right? Because like, that's just like marketing.

00:18:11   But even more than that.

00:18:12   This is like, you may get millions of users because of this.

00:18:15   You know what it reminds me of is the Twitter suggested user lists that used to

00:18:20   exist.

00:18:21   Well, funny you mentioned that. When I was a nobody,

00:18:26   back in 2010, I had like,

00:18:31   I started Mac Stories the year before, right?

00:18:35   And in a year, I got about, I don't know,

00:18:37   like a thousand followers or something.

00:18:39   And then, somehow, because Mac Stories

00:18:43   used to be a dual language website back in the day,

00:18:47   it used to be in this terrible, terrible,

00:18:49   horrible English and Italian.

00:18:51   And there was like, in the old design of the website,

00:18:53   there was a menu that you could pick a language

00:18:56   and read the same story in a different,

00:18:57   in either Italian or English.

00:19:00   Which is such a Federico Vittucci thing to do.

00:19:02   Yeah, never again. Such a bad mistake.

00:19:04   Here's a ton of work that I've done.

00:19:06   Stupid mistake.

00:19:08   Anyway, while the website was still in Italian,

00:19:12   Twitter made a big marketing push because they launched officially in Italy sometime around 2010, I want to say.

00:19:20   And they put me in the recommended user list for Twitter Italy.

00:19:24   And that is how, literally overnight, I jumped from a thousand followers to 30,000.

00:19:31   Wow.

00:19:32   Yeah.

00:19:33   Yeah.

00:19:34   So there's a lot of Italians in there is what you're saying.

00:19:38   There's a lot of Italians.

00:19:39   And of course, you know, Twitter has done the cleanup of the inactive user accounts

00:19:43   a bunch over the years.

00:19:44   And so I think I've lost basically all of those initial followers.

00:19:48   See that weird flex?

00:19:49   You see that?

00:19:50   I did, yeah.

00:19:51   See what Federico just did there?

00:19:52   That's not a weird flex.

00:19:53   where it's like, "Uh, don't question my 75,000 followers."

00:19:58   They got rid of all of the ones that don't follow me.

00:20:00   Now I have my public.

00:20:02   Yeah.

00:20:03   - Well, it's history.

00:20:04   It's documented everywhere.

00:20:06   Twitter has done the cleanup.

00:20:07   They even sent you a message to tell you

00:20:09   if your follower count looks too low,

00:20:11   it's because we removed inactive accounts.

00:20:14   I'm not making this up, so.

00:20:16   - No, I know it happened.

00:20:18   - Yeah, so anyway, that's how it happened.

00:20:20   Like the next morning I woke up

00:20:23   and I had like 30,000 and I freaked out.

00:20:25   I remember telling Silvia, like,

00:20:27   do you also see this number?

00:20:29   And then we figured that I was included.

00:20:30   Like when you signed up for Twitter in Italy,

00:20:33   you would see like the Italian, the president,

00:20:38   like the prime minister and like Francesco Totti

00:20:42   who used to be like a very popular football player.

00:20:45   And then me, (laughing)

00:20:48   just like, what am I doing here?

00:20:50   - Sounds right.

00:20:53   Yeah, anyway.

00:20:54   This also reminds me of the browser ballot that is enforced in the EU.

00:20:59   I'll have a link in the show notes.

00:21:01   So basically, Microsoft was forced to have people in Windows, you know, "Hey, there's

00:21:06   all these other browsers."

00:21:07   And then there's been lots of drama around that ever since.

00:21:10   And this feels very much in the spirit of that.

00:21:13   New video and imagery has been found in Find My that could be related to AirTags.

00:21:19   And there's also a new headphones icon that would seem to suggest AirPods Studio.

00:21:26   So when I talk about saying I think there's going to be another event, this all is one

00:21:30   of, there's one I'm thinking of here.

00:21:32   There's like a lot of stuff that's popped up in 14.3, which would seem to suggest that

00:21:37   these things are getting closer.

00:21:39   I would like to see the everything else event where there's like the headphones and the

00:21:45   tags and maybe a new Apple TV.

00:21:48   That would be fun.

00:21:50   They could just not do an event.

00:21:52   Right.

00:21:53   Just throw a bunch of stuff out, which is very possible.

00:21:55   Tim Cook drawing on his iPad mini.

00:21:58   Yeah.

00:21:59   But it's still, you know, still stuff.

00:22:01   Can I just say how I really like, it's been two years, but I really dislike the name "Find

00:22:06   My" because every time anybody's, somebody says that, I find myself waiting for the final

00:22:12   part of the name, like "Find My?

00:22:14   What?"

00:22:15   And there's no final part.

00:22:17   It's like, "Find My?"

00:22:18   Yeah, "Find My" is not good, like, has a name.

00:22:20   I will go along.

00:22:22   It just leaves you there waiting for the second half, but it's just "Find My."

00:22:28   I don't know.

00:22:29   It's just weird.

00:22:30   The set wallpaper action has returned in shortcuts.

00:22:34   What is that, Federico?

00:22:35   This is the return of the prodigal son.

00:22:40   This action was included in... and someday I will be able to tell the story.

00:22:45   You guys know the backstory of this action. I think I told you privately.

00:22:50   I think so.

00:22:51   Anyway, yes, you know the story. It was included in the first beta of iOS 13. So in 2019, it

00:22:59   was last year. And then it was removed from one of the later betas. And this action allows

00:23:06   you to change your wallpaper. Your home screen or lock screen wallpaper all at once. And,

00:23:12   Of course, now it is back, as a very nice surprise in 14.3.

00:23:18   There's a new SetWallpaper action that, just like before, lets you use any image.

00:23:26   It can be a photo that you pick from your photo library, but really you want to use

00:23:30   this in an automated fashion, so that you can pass an image to the shortcut and it will

00:23:35   change the wallpaper for you.

00:23:38   As you can imagine, I've already started playing around with this using some base64 encoded

00:23:43   images that I can use as wallpapers built into the shortcut itself.

00:23:49   Now, there appears to be a few limitations.

00:23:51   Now, I should say that I haven't checked again in beta 2.

00:23:55   No, actually, I did last night.

00:23:57   It was very late, but I did check last night.

00:24:00   The limitation now is that it requires confirmation from you.

00:24:04   There's no way to set the wallpaper automatically.

00:24:07   you still need to tap to respond and say,

00:24:10   hey, the shortcut wants to change your wallpaper.

00:24:13   And you need to confirm that.

00:24:14   I saw that some users were able to get around this limitation

00:24:18   in beta one with a clever trick.

00:24:21   Instead of using the set wallpaper action,

00:24:24   they would use a shortcut that contained another shortcut.

00:24:29   So you would create a shortcut as an action,

00:24:32   and the action is run shortcut, and that shortcut

00:24:35   changes the wallpaper.

00:24:36   And in beta one, that used to bypass the confirmation prompt.

00:24:41   I don't know if that still works in beta two.

00:24:43   In any case, Apple should get rid of the confirmation.

00:24:45   We know what we're doing.

00:24:46   Please, come on.

00:24:47   This is a good--

00:24:50   I think I can understand why they're doing that.

00:24:52   Because you could really prank someone bad.

00:24:56   Sure.

00:24:57   You know, just put in that shortcut,

00:24:59   and then their wallpaper just keeps changing.

00:25:02   Can you, though?

00:25:03   Even when you install the shortcut,

00:25:05   you need to confirm that.

00:25:06   First, you need to enable untrusted shortcuts in settings.

00:25:09   Yeah, but I mean, like, you can get someone's phone and do it.

00:25:12   I mean, if I get someone's phone and install a shortcut, I could do lots of things.

00:25:17   So really, is that the concern?

00:25:18   That's true. Maybe we should just get rid of shortcuts now.

00:25:21   No, please. Let's get rid of it.

00:25:23   No, that's part of my job.

00:25:24   I'm going to send a feedback.

00:25:26   OK, sure.

00:25:27   This is interesting because now you will be able to, of course,

00:25:31   create automations to change your wallpaper at different times of the day.

00:25:36   you will be able, for example, to, I don't know,

00:25:37   make a custom wallpaper that contains a little calendar

00:25:40   on the side, and you can change that.

00:25:42   Or you could pull tasks from your task manager

00:25:46   and create an image that contains your tasks

00:25:48   or the weather, whatever.

00:25:50   And you can change that with an automation.

00:25:51   It's incredible.

00:25:52   And of course, it fits well with the theme of customization

00:25:55   and personalization in iOS 14 this year,

00:25:58   which we're gonna talk about in a minute

00:25:59   for another thing that they've done in 14.3.

00:26:01   - Matthew in the chat is saying

00:26:03   that there's no confirmation required now.

00:26:05   Oh, okay. Oh, that's very nice then. So they got rid of that. That's a good call. Something that I would like to see, however, that it was not working in Beta 1,

00:26:13   for example, the wallpapers that I've done for Club Max stories, they require you to zoom out on the image,

00:26:20   you know, to pinch out, because we got that very precise layout that contains the home screen icons and widgets,

00:26:28   and if you try and set the wallpaper using this action, it doesn't...

00:26:34   Like there's no setting to say disable perspective zoom and I think it's got perspective zoom, right?

00:26:41   When you set the wallpaper and you zoom out... Where it moves? I hate that.

00:26:45   Yeah, there's no... they should add a parameter in this action to also control perspective zoom.

00:26:51   So anyway, this is awesome that it's coming back. I'm really happy. This is gonna be sweet for automation this fall.

00:26:58   I'm gonna have lots of fun making wallpapers that take advantage of this.

00:27:01   But now, it does seem like this update, 14.3, Apple and the shortcuts team...

00:27:06   I feel like this is the kind of feature that I will lose Gray to forever.

00:27:09   Yes.

00:27:09   I'll never hear from him again.

00:27:10   Yes, you will...

00:27:11   You'll just constantly tinker with this thing, and then that's the last we ever heard of it.

00:27:17   And what's even better is that this update is going to introduce

00:27:20   setting wallpapers, but also a major change for custom icons added to the home screen as shortcuts.

00:27:30   Yeah, this is pretty huge.

00:27:32   This is really, really important because it shows that Apple has listened to those millions

00:27:38   of users, literally, who customized their home screens two months ago when iOS 14 launched.

00:27:44   And everybody, literally everybody complained, "This is awesome," but it's kind of annoying

00:27:48   that every time you tap on a custom icon, because those custom icons were actually shortcuts,

00:27:54   the icon would launch shortcuts and then you were taken to the actual app that you wanted

00:28:00   to launch. And in 14.3, Apple got rid of this limitation, and thankfully they listened to

00:28:06   what we said a bunch of other people said. They should just use Compact UI instead. And

00:28:12   so now, in 14.3, when you add a shortcut to your home screen, the icon that you have there,

00:28:17   when you tap it, it doesn't open shortcuts. It uses the same Compact UI of the shortcuts

00:28:23   widget. You see a little banner that pops down from the top of the screen. It confirms

00:28:27   that you run in the shortcut, but then it launches the app that you want to launch directly.

00:28:33   There's no jumping around from the icon to shortcuts to the app anymore. It's a straight

00:28:39   launch. And it's awesome.

00:28:41   You just see the little notification, don't you?

00:28:43   You just see the little notification. Now, I'm here to tell you that at this point I

00:28:48   kind of dislike that notification. There should be an advanced setting to get rid of that

00:28:53   confirmation prompt because I don't like, come on, I don't need to see that confirmation

00:28:57   prompt. I know what I'm doing, right?

00:28:59   As a compromise.

00:29:01   I know, I know.

00:29:02   Right? Just accept the notification as a compromise.

00:29:06   Life is no fun with compromises. So there should be a setting for advanced users.

00:29:13   I just want to say, like, I don't like to say this kind of stuff very much because it's

00:29:18   like whatever but I am like genuinely appreciative and proud of them for making this decision so fast

00:29:25   yes yes because look sometimes some stuff happens to your technology and people start using it in

00:29:35   unexpected ways and you can embrace it or you can reject it if you reject it you're gonna upset

00:29:42   people. If you embrace it, you are saying what they're doing is okay, because it is, right?

00:29:51   They're using the technology to express themselves in fun and exciting ways. This hasn't happened

00:29:58   accidentally. Apple have seen what people have been doing with widgets and shortcuts,

00:30:03   and they have decided they will embrace it by breaking a barrier down. And I think this is

00:30:09   awesome because now the floodgates are gonna open right like now this is

00:30:15   awesome I'm super happy people are gonna make loads of icon packs it's gonna be

00:30:19   great every time an app updates you don't like the icon now you can just

00:30:23   change it right and I think it's super cool I'm really really pleased that

00:30:26   they've done this yeah and I'm sending you for example I just just right now

00:30:30   I've changed the icon for my Safari app in my dock that this is an icon based on

00:30:36   on a set called Monterey that I found on Gumroad.

00:30:41   Really beautiful, really beautiful icon set.

00:30:43   And when I tap it, it just opens Safari.

00:30:45   It's beautiful.

00:30:46   And what's even better is that by making this change,

00:30:51   as soon as all those users who customize their home screens

00:30:56   in iOS 14 upgrade to iOS 14.3,

00:30:59   they won't have to redo their home screens.

00:31:02   All the shortcuts will just instantly switch over

00:31:05   to the new behavior.

00:31:06   So they will, like, just by updating to 14.3,

00:31:10   those icons will launch the apps

00:31:12   instead of taking them to shortcuts first.

00:31:14   So it won't require them to redo their home screens,

00:31:17   which I think is also very important.

00:31:19   And they will be pleasantly surprised by the fact

00:31:21   that you do an update and now it works a lot better.

00:31:24   This is so smart to take a feature

00:31:28   that Apple was not expecting to be popular,

00:31:31   it went viral and everybody was doing it.

00:31:35   And you take stock of that popularity and you say,

00:31:38   okay, well, as Myke said, we need to embrace this

00:31:42   and we're actually gonna make it better.

00:31:43   And so you create that positive loop

00:31:46   of people updating their devices

00:31:48   and getting something in return,

00:31:50   which is so important because you do,

00:31:51   if you're a company like Apple,

00:31:52   you do wanna make sure that people update their phones.

00:31:55   And this is the perfect, like emoji,

00:31:57   this is the perfect way to do it.

00:31:58   You convince people to update

00:31:59   and they get a little treat in return.

00:32:01   It's perfect.

00:32:02   So, yeah, we're going to make a...

00:32:04   Yeah, I'm excited.

00:32:05   I'm very excited to see what's going to happen with this.

00:32:07   Yeah.

00:32:07   Because, you know, I think

00:32:09   I think what we're seeing right now is a step one

00:32:12   in whatever this is going to be.

00:32:15   I feel like it's going to start to open up.

00:32:17   Like people are going to start to do more things.

00:32:19   And then I could imagine maybe Apple trying to make it even more official

00:32:23   than this. We'll see.

00:32:24   Yeah. And the takeaway, I guess this is like

00:32:28   We discovered this like an hour ago.

00:32:30   My takeaway is that my home screen is already old

00:32:33   at this point.

00:32:34   Like I got to redo it all.

00:32:35   All the shortcuts that I want to use now,

00:32:37   all the icons that, like Sylvia is, I guess, you know,

00:32:41   she's working on something pretty awesome.

00:32:43   She's been working on it for months

00:32:45   and she's been going slow because we thought, you know,

00:32:47   this new icon set she's working on.

00:32:50   We thought, well, it's kind of a bummer though,

00:32:51   that shortcuts, you know, they still, you know,

00:32:55   people are more into widgets now

00:32:57   because the shortcuts icons, it's not great.

00:33:01   I guess people prefer to run their custom shortcuts

00:33:03   from the widget instead of the icon,

00:33:05   but this changes everything, and so I guess she will have to hurry

00:33:08   on the thing she's been working on.

00:33:10   This is going to be fantastic.

00:33:11   And, yeah, my home screen, I need to...

00:33:15   It's old again.

00:33:16   I thought I settled on something that I liked,

00:33:18   and now I got to change it all again.

00:33:20   -So we got some interesting feedback

00:33:24   that came from Dylan on Twitter,

00:33:26   and they sent us a clip and the clip, which I'll put in the show notes so people can go

00:33:31   and listen to, the clip seems to partially indicate that you owe me a computer.

00:33:39   And the backstory to this is there was a pic that you made, I believe two years ago, saying

00:33:45   that one of your annual picks, I think, was that Apple was going to release an ARM Mac.

00:33:51   And I said, no way.

00:33:54   And you were so convinced, and I was so unconvinced of your opinion, that I promised I would buy

00:33:59   you a computer if they did.

00:34:02   And they didn't.

00:34:04   And then in the annual picks for this year, you were convinced that Apple wouldn't launch

00:34:10   our Macs, I think.

00:34:13   And I said, "No, you're definitely wrong about this one."

00:34:16   And then both me and Federico then challenged you to buy me a Mac.

00:34:21   and you kind of seem to squirrel away, but you know, the rule of like, reverse friendship

00:34:27   bets, I believe, would indicate that you owe me a computer.

00:34:31   Well here's the thing, listener Dylan, if that's even their real name, has set me up.

00:34:36   Because I went to the MP3.

00:34:38   I listened to it as well.

00:34:40   And at no point did we make it official.

00:34:41   Oh cool.

00:34:42   At no point did we decide this was something we were going to do.

00:34:47   And you know, I think that some people may-

00:34:49   As I said, you squirreled out of it. You just stopped talking.

00:34:53   Wow.

00:34:54   I would have bought you that computer, you know that, right?

00:34:56   Yeah.

00:34:56   Because I'm a man of my word.

00:34:58   So, so greedy.

00:34:59   That's how it's gonna be.

00:35:01   Friendship ended with Myke, now money is my best friend.

00:35:04   Well done. Somebody please photoshop that with Steven and the meme.

00:35:14   Yeah, I really need to see that.

00:35:15   Wow.

00:35:17   Oh, that's fantastic.

00:35:17   Well done, man.

00:35:19   I guess I'm not holding you to this because there was no official bet made.

00:35:23   This is a real gentleman. But I am suggesting that, you know, there was a non-official bet made.

00:35:32   But it did just remind me, you know, the annual picks are coming up soon and I don't think you're

00:35:37   gonna fare very well, my friend. Yeah, I'm not gonna do well on the annual picks.

00:35:44   and it's kind of wild to me that you were so convinced in 2019 that they would do it

00:35:51   and then 2020 you're like no way see this is why i i mentioned how interesting it was that it was

00:36:00   so convinced it was not gonna happen and then for the mech event not only did it did it win but he

00:36:07   won because he had a risky pick about a desktop mech and nobody was talking about that nobody

00:36:13   Isn't that suspicious? I think it's pretty suspicious. Anyway, that seems pretty suspicious.

00:36:19   I'm not disputing the results. I'm not asking for a recount of anything, but, you know, but.

00:36:28   But what we are saying is we'll see you in court. That's what we are saying.

00:36:31   Yes. So I guess the question is, I don't want to raise the question, but I want to be honorable,

00:36:39   is, is that, am I on the hook for something? Is there something that has to be done to make this

00:36:45   right without me buying you a computer? Maybe. But I don't know what that is.

00:36:53   Okay, maybe we leave this to the audience. Maybe we get their input.

00:36:57   What does Steven owe me? I throw myself in the mercy of the listeners,

00:37:02   shy of paying for the MacBook Pro you just bought. Interesting. Interesting.

00:37:07   - Okay, well, let's take a break

00:37:11   and then we'll be back with some App Store news.

00:37:13   How does that sound?

00:37:14   Great. - Okay.

00:37:15   - This episode of Connected is brought to you by Mac Weldon.

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00:39:29   I'm going to do a brief dramatic reading from Mac stories,

00:39:34   dot net and then we it's a great website. It's one of my favorites.

00:39:38   And then we can talk about it starting January 1st, 2021.

00:39:43   Is that dramatic? Is that really dramatic? Okay.

00:39:46   Starting January 1st, 2021,

00:39:50   developers who earn up to $1 million per year from their apps

00:39:55   We'll have the commission paid to Apple cut in half, reducing it from 30 to 15 percent.

00:40:02   I'm not going to do that anymore.

00:40:04   You have a career in theater, Myke.

00:40:06   Thank you so much.

00:40:09   More amateur dramatics, I think is maybe about as far as I can get with that.

00:40:12   So, yeah, if you earn up to a million dollars

00:40:16   per year from your application in the App Store from January 1st, 2021,

00:40:21   you will have your Apple cut down to 15%. So continue in from Mac stories.

00:40:28   Apple says that it will provide additional details about the new program in December,

00:40:32   but here's what we know so far. Developers who made up to $1 million on all their apps in 2020

00:40:38   after subtracting Apple's commissions will qualify for the program and its reduced commissions

00:40:43   beginning on January 1, 2021. New developers eligible to participate in the App Store Small

00:40:49   Business Program beginning January 1st 2021 too. If a developer who is part of the App Store Small

00:40:56   Business Program makes more than $1 million during a year, the commissions paid for the remainder of

00:41:01   the year will be at the 30% rate paid outside the program and the developer won't be eligible for

00:41:07   the program the following calendar year. A developer that is not eligible for the App Store Small

00:41:12   Business Program will be eligible for the calendar year following any calendar year that they earn

00:41:18   less than one million dollars. So in essence, Apple has cut the rate for

00:41:26   quote "small businesses" businesses that earn less than a million dollars a year

00:41:30   which feels pretty sizable like but yes that is a typical kind of phrasing for

00:41:37   what is considered small then you go into medium before you get to large and

00:41:41   you can kind of see that right how Apple would be dividing that up considering the

00:41:46   some of the size and scale of businesses that will operate on the App Store.

00:41:52   And effectively, they've taken most of the simple options for the way that they're going to be doing

00:41:57   this. So it's not going to be a thing that can trigger at any time. It's got a year cut off

00:42:03   every time. So if you had some kind of devastation to your business and you went from earning three

00:42:08   million dollars a year to fifty thousand dollars a year, you'd have to wait until the next year

00:42:12   before your rate's gonna be cut. And I do like that if they do increase it,

00:42:18   see the increase they will apply at any point, but if you earn more than a million dollars,

00:42:23   there's a cap, right? And then Apple will only take the 30% on what's over that.

00:42:29   - But if you go over, you can't get back in until a year later, right?

00:42:33   - Exactly. Yeah, there's that year cut off. So they're trying to keep things, I think,

00:42:39   as simple as they can but also make sure that they make as much money as possible from it,

00:42:44   which is fine. It is what it is. I would say overall this is great news because the people

00:42:51   that are affected by this, or will be included in this, will see a great increase. So James

00:42:58   Thompson pointed out on Twitter that reducing Apple's cut from 30 to 15% actually increases

00:43:04   of developers revenues by 21.43%. So you don't make 15%, you make like 20% because math,

00:43:13   right? You know, it is what it is, but that's a nice jump. So for developers next year,

00:43:19   lots of developers are going to get a 20% pay increase basically, and that's really

00:43:23   great. And there's a lot going on about like, you know, whose money is it anyway, conversations

00:43:28   we have been having for the entire year, but this is a kind of resolution we want to see.

00:43:35   One of the things we said that Apple should do is this exact thing. Reduce the cut for

00:43:41   small businesses. That's what they've done. And I am very, very pleased that they have

00:43:45   done this. Why have they done this though, Federico?

00:43:50   It has to be part of a package, right? Part of a series of things, a series of changes

00:43:55   that are designed to make the App Store a more welcoming and more fairly competitive place.

00:44:04   I think there's not a single reason and I don't think this is a... it should be considered as a

00:44:10   single change in isolation. I think it's part of a series of changes that Apple decided because

00:44:17   maybe they were pressured, because maybe they also... I want to believe that they also felt it

00:44:22   was the right thing to do that they've done in 2020. And when you consider all the things that

00:44:27   they've done this year in terms of making the App Store a place where all kinds of developers,

00:44:35   all kinds of companies are welcome, look at the issue from that perspective and consider all the

00:44:42   things that they've done over the past few months. Reducing the commissions, of course, we've been

00:44:47   asking for ages freely. You can now set third-party defaults for browser and email on iOS. You

00:44:57   can change the default music service on your HomePod. Apple created a new system to appeal

00:45:05   App Store review guidelines, and they have made it so developers can still issue bug

00:45:11   fix updates, even if another app update is being held in review.

00:45:19   In iOS 14.3 it seems very likely, given what 9to5Mac found, that they will be

00:45:25   recommending third-party app set setup. So all of these things, they suggest to me

00:45:30   that Apple is, I mean, obviously they are aware that both the US government and

00:45:37   and the EU are building a case against them

00:45:41   in terms of antitrust and anti-competitive law.

00:45:45   And I think if I were Apple, I would tackle this on two fronts.

00:45:51   Like, what are different ways that we

00:45:55   can use to build an arsenal of evidence to bring forth,

00:46:01   should we ever go to court?

00:46:03   What kind of things can we show off

00:46:05   as meaningful changes that we brought to the App Store

00:46:09   after listening to feedback from the community.

00:46:12   And also, you have to believe,

00:46:15   I mean, I like Apple as a company,

00:46:17   and I personally want to believe

00:46:19   that there are some people at Apple

00:46:20   who took a good look at the App Store

00:46:23   and realized we put these measures in place years ago,

00:46:28   12 years ago, maybe right now,

00:46:31   given where we are now as a company,

00:46:33   how the App Store has changed,

00:46:35   maybe the right thing to do is to, like, beside, you know,

00:46:38   aside from the US government and the EU,

00:46:41   maybe just the right thing to do.

00:46:43   So I think it happened on two fronts,

00:46:45   and I think it happened for two reasons.

00:46:46   One, because there's folks at Apple who, you know,

00:46:49   actual people, it's not, like corporations are corporations,

00:46:52   but they're also made of people.

00:46:54   And so we don't know how these conversations happened,

00:46:57   but obviously the legal part of it,

00:46:59   I think it played a fundamental role.

00:47:01   We argued on the show months ago,

00:47:04   And a lot of people criticized us.

00:47:06   A lot of people attacked us saying that we were buying into the silly arguments

00:47:11   of Epic Games when the Fortnite thing blew up.

00:47:14   But we said on the show and on Twitter, this will bring change.

00:47:18   This will, this doesn't end here. This is not just a stupid marketing campaign.

00:47:23   The law firms involved and all the people involved.

00:47:28   This is a thing now and Apple will need to start answering this.

00:47:31   And this is part of the answer.

00:47:33   Very pleased that they have done a thing which we spoke about then and you know and have since is like you either

00:47:39   do something or you're forced to do it and

00:47:42   It's probably a good idea to try and make some changes on your own before the government exactly and look

00:47:49   I've seen tweets along the lines of oh, but indie developers have been asking this for years and and they never listen to us

00:47:56   And I mean, let's be realistic, right?

00:47:58   when somebody

00:48:01   Like Epic Games hires certain law firms and certain people to build your case against another

00:48:07   trillion dollar worth corporation

00:48:10   You're not messing around and sometimes unfortunately due to how capitalism work and how this modern society works

00:48:17   Sometimes change needs to happen from the top, right?

00:48:21   This is just how things work and I guess in this case you upset the wrong company

00:48:26   who also happen to have a lot of money to spend on lawyers and stuff like that.

00:48:31   And, you know, this is how just things work.

00:48:35   And there's Epic Games, but there's also, you know, the US government and the EU,

00:48:41   they're telling Apple, "Look, we don't like what you're doing here."

00:48:45   And, I mean, if you're Apple, you're aware of that, and you gotta ask yourself,

00:48:50   "Well, is there anything we can do before they force us to change?"

00:48:56   And this is something they should have done about a decade ago, right?

00:49:03   Is this cut, right? They should have done this.

00:49:06   They haven't done it, but now they've done it.

00:49:08   So I'm happy to say, finally, you have done the thing that you should have done a long time ago

00:49:14   and I am now pleased that you have done it.

00:49:16   But you're completely right.

00:49:18   And look, there's been a lot of conversation today from people like Tim Sweeney

00:49:22   where they're still saying like, blah, you know, they're saying a lot of stuff.

00:49:25   And whilst I have and some, I agree with some of the points that some of these

00:49:32   companies are weighing against Apple and their control. But this is not a thing

00:49:37   where I think you you really got a lot of ground to complain about. Like, look,

00:49:43   they're always going to take something and cutting that money for smaller

00:49:47   businesses, I think is a good thing. Yes, if you pass the one million dollar mark,

00:49:52   that's going to be awkward for you because they're going to take you back up

00:49:55   to 30%. But frankly, that's the thing that developers have to plan for.

00:49:58   Right. You all know now, you all know.

00:50:01   So if your revenue is starting to increase, like you should make a plan for that.

00:50:06   This is part of doing business in the App Store.

00:50:09   But for people trying to make a living, trying to like build a business,

00:50:14   this is great for them.

00:50:15   And I kind of find it strange for now for companies to be like,

00:50:18   well, I make millions of dollars and they take one hundred and fifty thousand dollars

00:50:24   for me. It's like this, this, this argument is not playing everyone like David

00:50:28   Hanuman and Tim Sweeney, like complaining about this to developers.

00:50:33   That's that's the wrong move. Right.

00:50:35   Like you continue making the arguments that you have made about everything else.

00:50:40   But this like this part is not the right move.

00:50:44   Right. Like trying to be like, oh, well, they're still taking loads of money from

00:50:47   me. I'm such a big company.

00:50:50   Like, no. Go back to your previous statement.

00:50:52   don't try and paint this as a bad thing because to the people that this has helped, this is

00:50:58   a really good thing for them and you also do need to kind of try and keep some of these

00:51:02   people on your side because a lot of the noise that you've been able to make is because you

00:51:07   have these people also making that noise along with you.

00:51:10   I thought it was funny, the tweet from DHH on Twitter about Apple holding journalists

00:51:18   hostage for the embargo. So we had an embargo, and Max, sorry, is okay. And it's not like

00:51:25   they were holding us hostage. It's just how these things work. It's not like we didn't,

00:51:30   we were not put in a position to talk to developers about it because I could have easily texted

00:51:37   James Thompson at 1am and asked for a quote and maybe he would have replied, maybe not.

00:51:42   I would have texted hundreds of folks to ask for their opinion. Like I have no problem

00:51:47   with that. The issue is this is how embargoes work and this is how confidentiality agreements

00:51:53   work. I'm pretty sure that DHH knows how these things work. And so I thought that tweet was

00:51:57   funny. It's like, hey, do you know how these companies release announcements at all?

00:52:03   I wonder how they dealt with all of the original reviews of, hey, was it just like freewheeling

00:52:08   to talk about it whenever you want?

00:52:10   Yeah, exactly. Like this is just like regular business for all kinds of communications.

00:52:15   is like one of those I can't think of the right oh what is it like when you're a hammer

00:52:21   everything looks kind of nail whatever that phrase is.

00:52:26   So look if you do feel like and I understand that at his core he hates Apple so like he's

00:52:32   gonna be mad no matter what they do but I just feel like this is the thing that and

00:52:37   again like I'm not saying that we like say like oh thank you Apple for blessing us with

00:52:42   this, but they have made the right move here. This is a good decision to have made.

00:52:47   It's a good decision, it's the right thing to do, both legally speaking and to, you know,

00:52:54   morally speaking, morally speaking for the community. And I should say, I think it is

00:52:59   especially clever in the context of 2020. I mean, let's just face it, the way that Apple framed it

00:53:07   as part of, you know, wanting to help small businesses because 2020 has been such a challenging

00:53:14   year, which is true, right? It is true. And I know lots of indie developers who told me and told John

00:53:20   that, you know, we spoke to them and they said my sales were hit by COVID-19 and I had to take

00:53:26   on contracting work, right? We've seen these messages from developers and so it is true when

00:53:32   Apple says 2020 has been challenging for everybody. But also, you're not making this change just

00:53:39   for 2020, right? This is a program... Yeah, if it was only a 2020 thing, they would

00:53:43   say we're going to give you back the whole 30% of the year, right? It still wasn't that.

00:53:47   This is a program that you're going to launch and it's going to stay on forever, or at least

00:53:52   for the foreseeable future. And so you're framing it as part of 2020, but it's really

00:53:57   It's part of the series of changes that you're making in 2020 because of other

00:54:01   Of another situation that you got going. So I think it's in the timing. I should say the timing of this is perfect

00:54:08   Yeah, I think it's fantastic. And you know Myke you mentioned that developers have to plan for this like yeah any

00:54:14   any single line drawn in the sand will cut somebody out and

00:54:21   I wrote in in my article about it is like yeah, you know

00:54:25   it's it's probably a bummer if you're a developer who's had a lot of success and like you have a small team and

00:54:31   You're still a small business

00:54:33   But you're not eligible for this like I'm sure that's that's a bummer and they'll be developers who fall right above that line

00:54:41   but it does help a lot of people and

00:54:43   You know, I don't know if they'll ever adjust where that line is. I would imagine Apple

00:54:49   Chose that line with lots of data, but I do feel for the folks who fall around the other side of it, too

00:54:55   I mean like frankly what what Apple trying to do is not obliterate the services revenue

00:55:00   and also show that they care about the development community and

00:55:04   This is a way that they're gonna do that and you can argue

00:55:08   I mean look I've made the argument and I stand by this argument that they should just do it

00:55:14   It should just be cut for everyone

00:55:17   But I do mostly care honestly about smaller companies and bigger companies when it comes to this

00:55:22   Yeah

00:55:23   So I am happy that they have done something for smaller companies first

00:55:27   Because as we said we all know that the mega companies get to make their own deals

00:55:31   Mm-hmm, right

00:55:33   and so it's about time that Apple standardized what I think is a deal that a lot of the big companies get and give it to

00:55:39   Companies that have no say and so I'm very pleased that they've decided to do this way to go at full Schiller

00:55:45   Literally way to go

00:55:47   Wow. Remind me, is he still in charge of this part? Is that the expectation?

00:55:54   I guess.

00:55:55   Well, that's what I'm asking you.

00:55:57   Yeah.

00:55:58   Yes.

00:55:59   But, I mean, easy really.

00:56:00   Well, I mean, there's that.

00:56:01   I don't know.

00:56:02   Yeah.

00:56:03   Oh.

00:56:04   Let's say yes.

00:56:05   Can we do that?

00:56:06   Yeah.

00:56:07   Is that a thing that we have to...

00:56:08   All right.

00:56:09   We're saying yes. Let's see. Phil Schiller, Apple Fellow, newsroom. Let's see what Apple

00:56:12   said he's in charge of.

00:56:13   I know they said he was in charge of events.

00:56:14   - Bill Shiller advances to Apple Fellow.

00:56:16   He is, that's about Jaws.

00:56:21   He's gonna do some stuff.

00:56:24   He is going to continue to lead the App Store

00:56:26   and Apple events.

00:56:27   - Okay. - Okay.

00:56:29   - So yes. - So yes then.

00:56:31   Is the very long answer to a short question.

00:56:33   - Okay, let's take a break,

00:56:37   and then we're gonna be joined by a special guest.

00:56:41   This episode of Connected is brought to you

00:56:43   by Command Line Heroes.

00:56:45   Command Line Heroes is a podcast that tells epic true tales

00:56:49   of developers, programmers, hackers, and geeks,

00:56:52   and even open source rebels

00:56:53   who are revolutionizing the technology landscape.

00:56:57   Season six of Command Line Heroes is available now.

00:57:00   It tells the stories of black technologists

00:57:03   who innovated and invented, despite systematic racism,

00:57:07   unfair hiring practices,

00:57:08   and unequal education opportunities.

00:57:10   There's an episode all about Gladys West,

00:57:12   whose mathematical models and data analysis

00:57:14   paved the way for this little thing called GPS,

00:57:18   which is really cool.

00:57:19   Another episode tells the story of Jerry Lawson

00:57:22   who invented the first cartridge-based video game console,

00:57:26   paving the way for Atari, Nintendo, and Sega.

00:57:29   An episode that I just listened to this morning

00:57:32   is with Mark Dean, who grew up here in Tennessee,

00:57:35   was born in the '50s, a really hard time

00:57:38   to be in the Jim Crow South.

00:57:40   but he grew up to revolutionize the PC industry

00:57:43   by inventing the ESA bus that went in the early IBM PCs.

00:57:47   That philosophy of a bus to plug stuff into,

00:57:50   it's still around, it's called a PCI now.

00:57:52   I really enjoyed that episode.

00:57:54   I have to admit, I did not know who Mark Dean was,

00:57:56   but after listening to this,

00:57:58   it was really cool to hear this story

00:58:01   about somebody who really formed technology as we know it,

00:58:03   whose name isn't super familiar to everybody.

00:58:07   So search for command line heroes

00:58:09   anywhere you listen to podcasts. We'll include a link in the show notes, of course. Our thanks

00:58:14   to Command Line Heroes for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:58:18   We would like to welcome to the show the best Hackett, Mary Hackett. Hi, Mary.

00:58:24   Hey, guys.

00:58:25   We've had you on the show before to talk about headphones, but we wanted to talk to you about

00:58:30   the iPhone 12 mini.

00:58:32   Yes.

00:58:33   Because you have had one for a few days now, right?

00:58:36   Yes.

00:58:37   So I'm aware of this, but maybe you could tell the story for our audience a little bit.

00:58:41   You have been pretty resistant to move to the Face ID style phone, right?

00:58:48   Yes.

00:58:49   I just...

00:58:50   What's the story with that?

00:58:51   It's a pretty short story.

00:58:52   I just, I hate it.

00:58:56   I hate Face ID.

00:58:57   Oh, hang on.

00:59:00   Is that remaining now?

00:59:02   Yes.

00:59:03   I still don't like it.

00:59:04   Oh, interesting.

00:59:05   This has taken a turn.

00:59:06   Myke, that's how you do a review in just a couple of days.

00:59:09   She knows exactly what she's talking about.

00:59:11   Yep.

00:59:12   Look, this is how you do it, Michael.

00:59:15   Learn from the best.

00:59:16   Clearly.

00:59:17   Yeah.

00:59:18   All right, so I want to get back to the Mini itself in a bit, but now I want to jump straight

00:59:24   to Face ID.

00:59:25   So I know that you had, what phone did you have for a little bit, I think?

00:59:30   Did you try a different phone?

00:59:32   One with Face ID before now?

00:59:33   I did.

00:59:34   I don't even remember.

00:59:36   I don't even remember. Stephen could clarify.

00:59:38   Okay, because I seem to remember Stephen upgrading you and then he flip flopped as he always

00:59:43   does and got a different phone for you and kept one for himself and moved the whole thing

00:59:47   around.

00:59:48   Yes.

00:59:49   What is it that you don't like about Face ID?

00:59:50   Yes, he was so kind and was like, "I got you this new phone. It's great." And I was like,

00:59:55   "Hey, can I have my old phone back?" No, I think we did end up switching.

01:00:02   So Stephen is in the chat now saying it was an old iPhone X of his.

01:00:07   Oh, okay. Okay. So I did end up getting a different, nicer phone than what I had,

01:00:14   but something without the Face ID.

01:00:18   Right. I think it was maybe like an 8 or an SE or something.

01:00:22   That sounds right.

01:00:23   So now that you have a small phone again, because I know you also didn't want a big phone,

01:00:28   but this phone has Face ID, you're still super down on the Face ID?

01:00:32   I still just don't like it.

01:00:34   But it's not, I don't think that it's the phone's fault.

01:00:37   So maybe that is unfair to put this in a review of this phone.

01:00:43   Because I do love the, I love most of the physical part of the phone.

01:00:48   Like I love having edges again.

01:00:51   I love the size, even though really held up next to my old phone, which again, I don't

01:00:58   ever remember the names or the letters or the numbers.

01:01:00   I think it's an SE.

01:01:01   The one I just left though. It doesn't really feel that much smaller because the width is,

01:01:09   I think, the same. I know that it's shorter, so it fits better in your pocket, that kind of thing.

01:01:15   In your hand too, I guess if you're trying to push the button up at the top.

01:01:20   That's probably my favorite thing about it, is having the edges back.

01:01:25   Yeah.

01:01:26   It just reminds... I don't know, it just feels like a throwback. I really like it.

01:01:30   that form factor.

01:01:32   But I still want to dig into Face ID though.

01:01:34   I think I just am reluctant to have my face scanned all the time.

01:01:38   Interesting.

01:01:40   And I really like having the, well I say a physical button, but even on my previous phone,

01:01:48   it was already a fake button, right?

01:01:49   Yeah.

01:01:50   But you could feel it. I miss feeling-

01:01:52   Yeah, it would like kick back at you, but it didn't actually move.

01:01:55   Right, right. So you could feel,

01:01:59   I just miss feeling it. I miss because it's just, there's nothing there. So like when I pull it out

01:02:05   of my bag, this might just be a Mary problem and not a problem for many people in the world, but

01:02:13   who have this phone right now. But I almost always have it upside down when I pull it out of my bag,

01:02:19   because I can't tell where I am. - No, that's very normal. - And it makes me crazy. And actually,

01:02:23   it's I guess the speaker that I touch that makes me think that it's up at the very top

01:02:30   middle of the screen that the next to the camera that faces you. Yeah, so I end up like

01:02:37   feeling and touching for that when I pulled out of my bag and then I think oh yeah, no,

01:02:42   that's upside down. Still got it wrong.

01:02:44   Yeah, my phone's upside down all the time.

01:02:46   Yeah, this is like if it's on the if it's on the table and I pick it up like there's

01:02:49   nothing that visually indicate which way it's supposed to be. That is a thing for sure with

01:02:55   these phones. And then also if it is upside down it won't unlock, right? So like you know you're

01:03:02   kind of just stuck with it you're turning it around. Do you find it to be like harder to unlock?

01:03:09   Like do you feel like it's more cumbersome? Yeah I think it is. I mean definitely now in Covid times

01:03:18   because if I'm out, like it was so frustrating.

01:03:22   Oh yeah, talk about the worst possible time to move to face ID. I hadn't even realized that.

01:03:26   And then I feel like a jerk when I'm like in the store and I'm like,

01:03:30   "I'm really sorry, I have to unlock with my face so that I can pay you." So I'm like,

01:03:35   like, take a deep breath, like pulling my mask down, don't breathe, look like a normal person,

01:03:40   stare at the phone, put the mask back on, and then pay. Like that is just ridiculous.

01:03:48   But yeah, that that is really that's really annoying. It's really annoying. And like for

01:03:53   people that have had face ID funds for a while. It's like we got used to the things that

01:03:58   were good about it. And now we have a muscle and it's annoying. But if you're if you

01:04:02   were already not sure on it and you move to it now, it's like a double dose of annoyance.

01:04:07   Yes. I would agree with that. I wish that you didn't have to choose like I wish that you

01:04:12   could say, Oh, I don't want face ID. I just but do my thumbprint something.

01:04:17   in the same area.

01:04:19   Yeah. I really hoped that they were going to add that into this phone.

01:04:25   And if they don't do it next year, I'll be really disappointed if they don't put,

01:04:29   put the Touch ID in the, in the button on the side.

01:04:32   I think they need to do that.

01:04:34   And I'll be really upset if they don't do that because you should be able to

01:04:37   choose why not, right? It's, it's double safe that way.

01:04:40   My fear. Okay. So my fear is though,

01:04:43   that things will go the opposite direction and rather than

01:04:46   them see, "Oh, that was really difficult," and when everybody's wearing a mask and

01:04:51   here we're making our next phone and still

01:04:55   people are needing to wear masks in a lot of places, um,

01:04:58   and then they go to, "Well, why don't we just scan the eyeballs? Like, let's just

01:05:01   get everybody's retinal scan on there." I'm like,

01:05:03   "No! Absolutely not! Go back to the fingerprint!" It's not impossible. There are phones that do that

01:05:08   now. See, that is super creepy! There are some Android phones that do retinal scanning.

01:05:11   Ugh!

01:05:12   Yeah, I wouldn't like that, I don't think.

01:05:14   That's gross.

01:05:14   That seems like a bridge too far.

01:05:16   Yes!

01:05:17   Did you do one of your eyeballs scans?

01:05:18   Well, I don't think so. I'm not a-- I don't think I'm a fan of the idea.

01:05:22   Uh, I was thinking, though, maybe they could do something about, like, scanning your face with a mask on.

01:05:29   Like, maybe there are enough details in your forehead and eyes and eyebrows and the shape of your head when you're wearing a mask that maybe, like, Face ID could--

01:05:38   I wonder if they could make like face ID for masks a thing. I don't know.

01:05:43   I wonder could I maybe rescan my face with a mask on?

01:05:47   Well if you dig through Reddit enough, there are people that will tell you.

01:05:52   If you set up, because you can go into the settings and add alternate appearances I think it's called.

01:05:58   Oh.

01:05:59   I have heard people say if you set up two alternate appearances where you hold, this is wild,

01:06:08   half of a mask to your face in one and then in the other one hold the other half on the other side of your face

01:06:17   apparently that's enough to train it. I've not done this.

01:06:22   Wait, how? No, no, no, no. Half of a mask on one side?

01:06:25   Right, so take a mask, put it in half and hold it to your face so it's like split down the middle, right?

01:06:31   right? So the left side of your face has a mask on it. Do that one and then do one with the right

01:06:37   side of the face and do the mask on it. And apparently with those two alternate appearances

01:06:43   it should unlock with your mask on. Oh my god I am... That makes sense though because the way

01:06:51   that you scan, you know, you like go around your face so then it has one whole image of

01:06:57   your face uncovered in one whole image. As if your face has always got some half covering.

01:07:02   Is this for one face or the one face and then the alternate appearance?

01:07:08   You set two more alternate appearances. Okay.

01:07:12   Unless, I don't know, maybe you can only do two and then, but yeah, you have to do it in two halves.

01:07:17   I don't know how many alternate appearances you can set, but maybe that's why you do it in one

01:07:21   half and the other half so you can have one regular appearance where you don't have a mask on.

01:07:26   and one alternate appearance where you do basically.

01:07:29   It's kind of weird.

01:07:31   But apparently that does it.

01:07:33   Maybe I feel like Federico is going to be the one of us to try it.

01:07:36   Why have you never mentioned this to us before, Myke?

01:07:39   Because it sounds super weird.

01:07:41   It's like, I don't know if I want to endorse this.

01:07:44   I don't know. I will do it in the privacy of my home.

01:07:47   I will just hold the folded mask on top of my mouth

01:07:50   and try and scam my face.

01:07:52   I mean, I can do it when I'm alone.

01:07:55   look like an idiot, but I will try it.

01:07:57   Oh, Carl's saying that you can do it in one scan, but you know, when you do the

01:08:02   when you do a face ID training, it's twice you do it.

01:08:06   So you do it that way.

01:08:08   So you do one train with half mask on one side,

01:08:12   then the other training with half mask on the other side.

01:08:14   I feel like Federico will be able to provide follow up for us in the future.

01:08:17   So whether this is working.

01:08:19   But Mary, one of the other things that you've gotten with the phone

01:08:23   is a bigger screen, right?

01:08:24   the screen is now bigger even though the phone is not that much bigger. What do you think

01:08:29   about the edge to edge screen, the gestures, that kind of stuff? How do you like that?

01:08:35   I feel like a complainer. You can also say you don't like it. I don't like it. Yeah,

01:08:41   this is perfectly fine. Honestly, I prefer to hear you say you don't like it than just

01:08:46   to hear you say you really love everything because I feel like I hear that too much.

01:08:51   >> JEAN: Mm-hmm.

01:08:52   You're keeping it real.

01:08:54   >> PHYLLIS-ALISANDREA So first of all, I feel like the screen size difference is not enough

01:09:02   of a difference to really matter.

01:09:05   Like when I started working on it, it's not like, "Oh, wow, I can see so much more of

01:09:09   my photo.

01:09:10   Oh, I can see my screen is whatever percent larger than it used to be."

01:09:17   So there's that.

01:09:18   I mean, I guess it's nicer, but if you hadn't told me that it was larger, I probably would

01:09:23   not have really noticed.

01:09:26   And then with the gestures, I feel like it probably is just I'm still getting used to

01:09:32   it.

01:09:35   The new places to find the functions that I'm used to using so often, like swiping up

01:09:42   from the corner like on the iPad instead of swiping up at the bottom, where I keep trying

01:09:48   to double click a button that doesn't exist so that's just annoying.

01:09:52   That kind of thing where it's just change.

01:09:55   Any kind of change is slightly annoying until it becomes your new normal.

01:10:00   What about the camera?

01:10:02   Do you like the camera?

01:10:03   Okay that I do love.

01:10:06   Good okay.

01:10:07   Yes.

01:10:08   I figure this is probably going to be the biggest positive change for most people right?

01:10:13   Like you have a vastly better camera and two of them.

01:10:18   Yes, yes, I love it. We were playing around this weekend. Our daughter, we were outside

01:10:25   at a city park and the clouds were just amazing and Stephen had just shown me how to do the...

01:10:32   I forget the name of it. We can change it to... you tap in the middle and it goes to

01:10:39   like 1x or 0.5x.

01:10:41   Oh yeah, yeah, sure, sure. I don't actually know if it has a name but it's where you change

01:10:46   the lenses.

01:10:47   is no it's the wide angle yes thank you yeah yes I've never had a phone to play

01:10:54   with that but that function and that was really fun to do outside and see like

01:11:00   all the things that I could fit into the frame yeah it I out of the three

01:11:08   possible cameras I really like the one where it zooms in the telephoto lens but

01:11:12   the ultra wide camera does allow for you to take kinds of photos that look really different.

01:11:19   Yeah.

01:11:20   Where like, you know, the zoom is just a zoom. It's just a tighter shot of what you're already

01:11:23   looking at. But the ultra wide can create images that you otherwise wouldn't be able

01:11:28   to get because they have a, you know, they get more of the frame in and they have a different

01:11:32   kind of look to them. They're almost like fisheye kind of look. You can end up with

01:11:37   pictures that just look really cool because of it.

01:11:41   Yes, I enjoyed playing with that.

01:11:44   What color is your phone?

01:11:46   It's the minty green.

01:11:49   How do you fill them up, minty green?

01:11:51   I love it.

01:11:52   Green is my favorite color.

01:11:54   Not this color green, but I do like it.

01:11:57   It's very subtle because I've got a case on it.

01:12:01   And really, I'm taking out of the case now very carefully, Steven.

01:12:05   Don't worry.

01:12:06   It immediately flies across the office, smashes into Steven's monitor and just breaks it down.

01:12:13   Yeah, so it is a really beautiful color.

01:12:17   Just the metallic mint green on the edges and then I guess the back is glass or plastic,

01:12:24   I'm not sure.

01:12:26   Yeah, it's pretty.

01:12:28   And then it's kind of shown off even better by the case that we chose.

01:12:33   is kind of like a... oh I don't know what I did. Sorry my phone is dinging at me I

01:12:38   did something wrong. Oh wait did you put the case back on? It makes a noise now

01:12:41   when you do that yeah. Did a red circle? It's trying to be fancy. I don't

01:12:45   understand this feature like you put you the case on and then it shows you the

01:12:49   color of your case I don't really know. What? People say like oh this is so nice

01:12:53   I don't really know why this is useful because I already know, more than anybody

01:12:58   I know the color of the case on my phone I don't need my phone to tell me what

01:13:02   color the case is. I've heard people say like, "Oh, it's so whimsical." I don't get it.

01:13:06   Like it's useless to me. I don't understand the benefit of it.

01:13:11   Oh well. Yeah, so I really like the color that we chose for the case because it looks

01:13:18   like a watermelon. It's kind of like a salmon pink. I'm not sure what the official color

01:13:23   is but nobody knows. But so it makes me happy to look at that color combination and to have

01:13:31   a little bit of color.

01:13:34   Overall though, you, well, are you happy to keep, you want, are you going to keep this

01:13:39   phone?

01:13:40   Is your plan to keep this phone?

01:13:41   You don't feel like you have to abandon it and go back to the SE?

01:13:45   I think so.

01:13:48   I think so.

01:13:49   I think that I will, the things that annoy me will eventually, I'll just get over it.

01:13:54   It'll be fine.

01:13:55   The biggest thing will always be face ID.

01:14:01   And I guess I could just type in, you know, my, if it really bothers me that bad, I could

01:14:05   just type in my code every time.

01:14:07   Yeah, that's what I've been doing.

01:14:09   Because you can turn it off, right?

01:14:11   As an option?

01:14:13   You can swipe up again, I think, and when it realizes you have a mask, you can put a

01:14:18   code in.

01:14:19   And I just put my code in, which is frustrating, but that's what I've been doing.

01:14:23   Yeah, yeah.

01:14:24   So if I really want to get around it, I can just do that instead.

01:14:28   the weird scanning trick that we've all learned today.

01:14:31   Yeah, I think the camera is that alone might be worth it.

01:14:39   Yeah.

01:14:40   Because I take a lot of pictures.

01:14:42   I do when I'm out by myself not taking pictures of kids or family events, things that we're

01:14:50   doing in the house or for school or work I like to do a lot of like wildflower

01:14:57   pictures and close-ups of trees and leaves and I I really like the detail in

01:15:04   this new camera yeah and the outdoor photography stuff is such a so nice like

01:15:08   the HDR stuff that they can do it's just it's so good and the video I don't know

01:15:13   if you've taken any video yet but the HDR video that these phones can do it's

01:15:18   It's really stunning.

01:15:19   Oh, no, I need to play with that.

01:15:20   The video capabilities are amazing.

01:15:22   It's been, I think, is one of the more impressive things

01:15:26   about the new cameras is the stuff that they're doing.

01:15:29   But I guess wrapped up in all of this, right,

01:15:31   because it's the 12 mini, you're able to accept the downsides

01:15:36   because you're able to use the phone, right?

01:15:38   Like it's not so big that it's like uncomfortable now.

01:15:41   Yes.

01:15:42   Yeah.

01:15:43   Yeah, exactly.

01:15:43   Which is, I guess, the thing that gets you in the door.

01:15:46   Right.

01:15:47   And I mean, if they went smaller, I probably would go to a smaller phone than this even.

01:15:52   Yeah.

01:15:53   Just because I, but I don't work on my phone.

01:15:54   I use, you know, I can understand why people would not like anything smaller.

01:16:01   I mean, even people that say they work on their phones are mostly just on Instagram

01:16:04   all the time anyway.

01:16:05   I mean.

01:16:06   Wow.

01:16:07   Being real here, like.

01:16:08   It's a good bird.

01:16:09   Oh, come on Federico, right?

01:16:10   I mean, it's true.

01:16:11   I'm one of these people.

01:16:12   I like to have the big screen so I can do work on it, but I also like the big screens

01:16:16   so YouTube videos are bigger, right?

01:16:18   Like ultimately, that's what I like the most.

01:16:22   Do you have any other thoughts on the fun

01:16:24   that you wanted to share?

01:16:25   - No, I don't think so.

01:16:27   I'm definitely gonna play with that partial mask

01:16:31   face ID training.

01:16:33   - All right, so Steven needs to provide follow up for you

01:16:36   on this one.

01:16:37   We need to know if this works.

01:16:39   We're gonna crowdsource this.

01:16:40   - Sounds good.

01:16:41   Yeah, thank you guys for having me.

01:16:44   I had a bunch of questions that went with a, like a presupposing that you loved it unconditionally

01:16:49   because Steven had not communicated that you, I don't know if he knew, that you were still

01:16:56   quite conflicted about the Face ID.

01:16:58   So this ended up being a much more interesting conversation than I was expecting because

01:17:02   I thought you were coming on the show to like, victory lap, I finally got the perfect phone

01:17:06   for me.

01:17:07   I'm actually, I'm kind of like in a way just for the conversation, pleased to know that

01:17:12   it's not all sunshine and rainbows yet.

01:17:14   All right, we'll keep pushing on Apple to put Touch ID on the phone.

01:17:19   Yes, bring back buttons.

01:17:20   Yes, we all want it.

01:17:22   We all want it.

01:17:23   Mary, thank you so much for joining us.

01:17:25   It's very appreciated.

01:17:26   I'm sure everybody's going to love to have heard from you again.

01:17:29   Thank you.

01:17:30   This episode of Connected is also brought to you by Tower.

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01:19:13   I have some breaking news before we move on.

01:19:16   Oh.

01:19:17   Headline, MacRumors, Apple investigating display issues with iPhone 12 models, including flickering

01:19:24   and green-gray glow.

01:19:26   Greengate is back!

01:19:27   No, no, no, please, please, can we get Mary back and take the bat away from you?

01:19:33   a similar green tinted display issue.

01:19:36   - No.

01:19:37   - Affected some iPhone 11, 11 Pro, and 11 Pro Max models,

01:19:40   and Apple was able to fix that in iOS 13.6.1.

01:19:43   - How many people have this issue?

01:19:45   Is it just one guy on MacRumors having this problem?

01:19:48   - It's an internal Apple memo, Federico.

01:19:50   They say it's real.

01:19:51   - Joe, why are you doing this to us, Joe of MacRumors?

01:19:55   Why, why don't you listen to Connected?

01:19:57   Don't you know that Steven already gloated

01:19:59   about this stuff for months?

01:20:02   It's like the worst thing to be proud of.

01:20:04   You're proud of a faulty display.

01:20:09   I don't get it.

01:20:11   Well, he was proud of a hissing processor once, and look where that got him.

01:20:14   I'm not proud of it.

01:20:16   I'm here to be a voice to the people.

01:20:19   I'm here to be a voice of the people who are suffering.

01:20:22   Did you say voice to the people?

01:20:24   Voice of the people.

01:20:25   He said voice to the people.

01:20:28   I'm a voice for the people who are suffering.

01:20:31   Voice to the people sounds way worse. It is, yes. It just sounds like you're telling people things,

01:20:38   you know? In the documents shared with Apple authorized service providers. Who are these,

01:20:44   who are those Apple authorized service providers? I used to run one. Are these like the fake Apple

01:20:49   stores that are not Apple stores but they put up the furniture? Yeah. They're called like "iStore"

01:20:54   or whatever. Yes, ours wasn't. But we also have an ice store in Viterbo, there's one,

01:21:01   and they did the whole thing. Ice store is a straight up chain, like it's a real thing.

01:21:07   Yeah, they're in a bunch of airports. Yeah. Oh, you know what they did? It's not called the

01:21:11   ice store. They called it Apple store, but they were clever because they didn't just write Apple

01:21:17   store on the sign outside. They put up an Apple logo and the word store underneath it. So

01:21:23   I don't know if it's that clever. I still feel like if they knew about that they would definitely want to change.

01:21:29   Yeah, exactly, but they copied the whole layout with the wooden tables.

01:21:32   Yeah, a lot of those places do that. I don't know if they're like

01:21:35   Given this stuff or can buy this stuff

01:21:39   But a lot of them do a pretty decent job of making them look like Apple stores from like four years ago.

01:21:43   There has to be a company specialized in making fake Apple store tables, right?

01:21:49   Definitely. Definitely.

01:21:51   That sounds like a good business idea to me.

01:21:54   Wasn't it also in Italy the guy had like something like making Steve Jobs jeans or something?

01:21:59   What?

01:22:01   Remember that?

01:22:01   What are you talking about?

01:22:03   In Italy?

01:22:04   Steve Jobs jeans?

01:22:06   Steve Jobs jeans, Italy.

01:22:07   Yeah someone, yes, Steve Jobs is an Italian clothing company based in Naples, Italy founded in 2012.

01:22:13   What?

01:22:15   What is this and why do you know about it?

01:22:18   I don't know because I'm, the Apple logo doesn't really think of it.

01:22:21   Cuz I'm gonna put this in Discord and Myke you can put it in the notes.

01:22:24   Look at the company logo for this clothing company.

01:22:28   Oh my- no wait.

01:22:30   Oh jeez. I hate this.

01:22:33   Yep.

01:22:34   [Laughter]

01:22:36   You can buy jeans with the Steve Jobs name on it?

01:22:39   The logo is shaped like a J with a bite taken out of it, complete with the iconic apple leaf.

01:22:44   The European Union Intellectual Property Office ruled in favor of the company.

01:22:49   Why?

01:22:50   I don't know. But there you go.

01:22:52   No, I can't believe this.

01:22:54   Why would you do this?

01:22:56   Their argument was that Apple never trademarked the name Steve Jobs.

01:23:00   Because it's the dude's name!

01:23:02   [Laughter]

01:23:04   Anyways...

01:23:06   Of course it was made by Italians.

01:23:09   Why? Why do we always have to be too clever and...

01:23:14   See, this is why I don't...

01:23:16   Just let me be quiet.

01:23:18   Federico, how would you say M1 in Italian?

01:23:23   Oh, good question. Mme uno.

01:23:26   Mme uno. That's how we're gonna call them?

01:23:28   Mme uno.

01:23:29   The Mme uno Macintoshes are available.

01:23:33   It's not uno. It's uno. Uno. 1N.

01:23:36   Oh, sorry. Wait, what did I say?

01:23:37   Mme uno, you said.

01:23:39   And what am I supposed to say?

01:23:41   Mme uno.

01:23:42   Oh, 'cause that sounds so different.

01:23:44   Yeah, that's exactly the same thing.

01:23:45   - Well, it's... "Uno" is one thing and "uno" is another.

01:23:49   - What are those things trolling us?

01:23:51   - No, no, no, I'm... - What are the difference?

01:23:54   - Just let me... - I wanna know.

01:23:56   - Let me find the Italian word, the English word.

01:23:58   So, the... how do you pronounce this?

01:24:04   You know the... I'm gonna link you to Wikipedia.

01:24:08   So "uno" with two N's in Italian would be these guys.

01:24:13   The Hans?

01:24:16   H-H-Hans?

01:24:18   There's a Wikipedia page.

01:24:20   It was a nomadic people who lived in Central Asia.

01:24:23   Yeah, Hans.

01:24:25   Yeah, and in Italian they are called the "Unni".

01:24:29   And singular would be "Unno".

01:24:31   No, definitely what I'm saying is the Macintosh M Hans.

01:24:37   I have quit now. I have quit the podcast.

01:24:42   I'm done. There is no tvos review. Of course. There wasn't one anyways. I've worked so hard

01:24:51   on it. We have been recording for six weeks. All right let's talk about the M1. The max,

01:24:58   not the highway. Is it a highway? In England. Yeah it's true. There was a bunch of Apple

01:25:04   equipment stolen from a truck on the M1 this week. Yep it's like six million dollars worth.

01:25:09   after the lorry driver and a security guard. What did you just say? Was that your English accent?

01:25:18   Yeah, the worst one. What's a lorry driver? What's a lorry? It's like a truck? Yeah, yeah. It's not like a truck, it is one.

01:25:27   It's like a tractor trailer. It has to be like a truck, right? Otherwise it would have been called a truck.

01:25:32   Can we please?

01:25:37   Okay these new Macs are here and they're very fancy.

01:25:43   Myke, you have a MacBook Pro in your possession.

01:25:47   And does Dina's MacBook Air make it?

01:25:50   No that's next week.

01:25:51   That's next week.

01:25:52   Okay so Mary's MacBook Air is here.

01:25:56   By here I mean it's with me because I put my stuff on it to talk about it and then she

01:26:00   gets it next week.

01:26:01   your MacBook Air, isn't it? Currently my MacBook Air.

01:26:04   We have a bunch of reviews in the show notes.

01:26:06   If you haven't checked them out, go check them out.

01:26:08   The first thing that kind of caught me by surprise

01:26:14   was not that it was silent and cool to the touch

01:26:18   after Migration Assistant, I kind of figured that,

01:26:20   but when I was like opening my apps,

01:26:22   Rosetta doesn't come installed.

01:26:24   You get like a system alert saying,

01:26:26   please install Rosetta. Why is this?

01:26:28   This is so strange to me.

01:26:29   My only--

01:26:30   first time you try to open a Rosetta app it's like you need to install Rosetta

01:26:34   is that okay? you say yes and it's the only time you need to do it why didn't they

01:26:38   just put it in the system? my guess is that they were working on it after they

01:26:45   had imaged these at the factory in fact the MacBook Air that I got

01:26:50   at least came with that's true Big Sur 11.0 not 1101 that's true and so maybe

01:26:57   in I would guess in the future maybe it would have it in there or they can

01:27:01   update it separately from the system that was my guess that I could

01:27:06   understand that because if you download an app from the App Store you can

01:27:11   download that app even no matter what version of the operating system you're

01:27:16   on mm-hmm and if it's somehow yeah I could imagine that there might be some

01:27:20   kind of piling but it is kind of weird though right because who's not gonna

01:27:24   need that. Everyone needs Rosetta. Or just download it in the background during setup assistant.

01:27:29   Or like you are you have access to the internet computer go yeah go do the thing. But Rosetta is

01:27:36   magical. It is. You would literally never know. Yeah. The only way in my opinion the only way

01:27:42   that you can tell if your app is in Rosetta or native is when you right click and go to get info

01:27:48   and whether it asks you if you want to...

01:27:52   like what is it you can check a box for an M1

01:27:56   optimized app to tell it to run in Rosetta I think. Yeah so under

01:28:00   I think it's kind or type it says universal

01:28:03   or it says intel and if it's universal you can force it to run in Rosetta for

01:28:08   some reason you want to do that but this really

01:28:12   reminds me of the original transition there were like

01:28:14   weird things like that in get info like I remember this kind of stuff

01:28:17   There's got to be a reason for it. I don't I don't necessarily know what it is. But yeah, honestly,

01:28:22   like the only app that I really noticed was slow to launch the first time was Microsoft Word and

01:28:29   Excel. And they took a while but then on the second launch, they launched really quickly. And

01:28:34   so one thing that's different this time is that Rosetta two on the first launch of an app, or the

01:28:41   first launch after an update to that app, it does the translation then and then just runs the

01:28:46   the translated version and so that translation may just take a while on the

01:28:50   Office apps but their Universal apps are in beta now so you can run those and I'm

01:28:56   sure they'll be in the regular update channel here pretty soon.

01:29:00   I've been trying to do some benchmarks of regular tasks that I'm doing and

01:29:07   something that I was really surprised about is I use Adobe Audition to do some

01:29:12   processing of audio files to, it's called, like to match the loudness of the file.

01:29:17   Audition is running in Rosetta, and it will process the file as fast as

01:29:24   my MX Pro. That's the thing that I was the most surprised about. I mean Apple

01:29:28   said yes some things are run faster in Rosetta than natively and we saw some of

01:29:32   those benchmarks you know play that out with Geekbench 4 being Intel and Geekbench

01:29:36   5 being universal but it's not messing around and I think a lot of that has to

01:29:42   do with how good Apple's translation layer is but it also has a lot to do

01:29:47   with the M1 is really fast so you have lots of headroom. Yeah like it is a

01:29:52   really these are very special computers like I haven't had enough time with it

01:29:57   yet to like really get it you know. Same. Like I've spent a handful of hours like

01:30:03   really doing any actual work on it outside of setting it up like I set it

01:30:07   up some from fresh so it took me the best part of a day to get the machine to

01:30:10   even nearly what I would want it to be and I am genuinely very very impressed

01:30:17   by these computers my major letdown because I was so excited about this and

01:30:22   it hasn't borne out is there has not been a great adoption from developers to

01:30:27   enable the iOS apps for the in the App Store. Lots of applications that I want

01:30:34   to use are not there and I'm disappointed in that because the apps

01:30:40   that I have used they work perfectly fine as well as I would expect. Like the

01:30:47   the best one that I've used so far is Overcast. It's perfect. Like it works

01:30:52   great and I love, I absolutely adore having Overcast on my Mac because

01:30:56   checking that my podcasts sound okay and overcast is a thing that I do quite

01:31:01   frequently and having that part of my production workflow on my Mac is

01:31:08   fantastic. So like I would really love to have Timery but there is no Timery and

01:31:14   I'm upset about this you know I really want to have that app. I believe that the

01:31:20   Timery developer is working on a Mac app but I would have loved to have the iOS

01:31:26   app in the meantime. Same as like, I really wanted to have the iOS version of OmniFocus,

01:31:31   like the iPad version, but that's not available to me. There are lots of applications that

01:31:36   I would love to have but can't have. But there are like these weird ones that I do have now,

01:31:40   like my bank app is available on my Mac. It's like, that's so much better than logging into

01:31:47   their internet banking. I understand that there are a lot of developers, like I've been

01:31:51   seeing this online over the last couple of days that are unchecking the box because they

01:31:54   haven't been able to test it, they don't have one of these Macs themselves or they think

01:31:57   it's going to be a subpar experience. And like, I implore you developers, just do it.

01:32:03   What is the worst that could happen? Like, all right, it might be bad for support. If

01:32:08   it's bad, then uncheck it and stop offering it in the store. Like, you know, I just, this

01:32:13   is something that could be so good for people, like, and it could be so good for you. I really

01:32:20   just want to, I just want these applications.

01:32:24   And I'm so, I just like, it's the only disappointment I have about this is that there aren't more

01:32:30   apps available.

01:32:31   I have been installing some strange stuff like Warren Buffett Paper Wizard.

01:32:35   That's not strange.

01:32:36   I don't see why that's strange.

01:32:38   And it works.

01:32:39   Like there's so many like weird games and stuff that I've had that just work.

01:32:43   Like it seems like the only developers that have not unchecked this box is game developers

01:32:48   because I feel like every iOS game I've ever played seems to be available on this. But

01:32:53   I really wish that more of the great productivity tools that I have available to me on my iPhone

01:32:59   or my iPad were now available to me on my Mac. And it seems like that's not the case

01:33:04   right now. But I really hope that it's going to be the case going forward.

01:33:09   Yeah, I think for developers who already have a Mac app, I just don't think many of them

01:33:14   are going to do that unless they're looking as a looking at this as a way to just have

01:33:19   one code base if their Mac app is behind or not as feature rich or something, but I don't

01:33:24   know how many developers are in that in that situation.

01:33:27   My guess is that right now a large part of it is like you said, they don't have one of

01:33:31   these in hand and they want to make sure their app does what they tell you what they needed

01:33:35   to do.

01:33:37   What I'm hopeful for is that while these apps do run, I do think it's sort of a subpar experience.

01:33:43   I mean, it's not like it's broken,

01:33:45   but I think that if developers spent the time

01:33:48   with Mac Catalyst, it would be a lot better.

01:33:50   So that's what I'm hopeful for,

01:33:51   that the new stuff optimized for Mac,

01:33:54   which again, John Voorhees wrote a lot about that

01:33:56   in his review, I think that that is a good path forward

01:34:00   for these developers, and I hope that that's what we see

01:34:03   as time goes on.

01:34:04   But I mean, it's still early days,

01:34:05   like most people don't even have these yet.

01:34:07   They've just started shipping the last couple of days.

01:34:09   So I'm not too concerned yet,

01:34:13   but I am hopeful that it does get better.

01:34:16   Yeah, I do also have that outside hope

01:34:19   that it's going to push more developers to check out Catalyst

01:34:22   as a potential option.

01:34:25   I would be very into that, but we'll see.

01:34:29   I mean, this idea that I had in my mind that like,

01:34:33   oh, is there a possibility that like,

01:34:35   I could just use a Mac for everything now?

01:34:38   I'm not even close to that.

01:34:40   Not even close to it.

01:34:41   I mean, one of the big things is shortcuts, you know, and I really hope that they will

01:34:46   work on that. They're not all ready to bring shortcuts to the back. It's a thing that I

01:34:50   would greatly value and will benefit from. And I do hope that moving to a unified platform

01:34:59   will help Apple move those kinds of tools forward as well.

01:35:02   I'm really curious to try one eventually, especially with the Apple.

01:35:06   Ultimately they are incredible federal code like it's a very very impressive. They're very responsive very speedy like

01:35:15   it does genuinely it feels like a

01:35:19   Nicer experience than for me then using my iMac like it is a it's a very very impressive computer

01:35:27   yeah, I want to try it a

01:35:29   Half thought a few nights ago

01:35:33   "Hey, maybe I should sell my Mac Mini and get an M1 Mac Mini instead."

01:35:39   But then I dismiss that thought after a few minutes because I don't want to go through

01:35:42   the hassle of selling my Mac Mini.

01:35:47   iPhones and iPads are easy to sell.

01:35:50   I always find somebody who's interested in an iPhone or iPad these days.

01:35:55   But a Mac Mini with the specs that I purchased, and I don't want to sell it to, like, I don't

01:36:02   to have like an online listing then I gotta meet a stranger during covid times no I don't want to

01:36:09   do that so I'm just gonna keep my mac for now here's what you do this is the beginning it's the seed

01:36:15   of your mac collection put it on the shelf and every time more macs will come to it

01:36:19   no it's it's not a thing I want to do I'm not interested in having a collection honestly

01:36:28   Do you want it? Do you want to buy a Mac Mini?

01:36:30   Um, I mean I'll adopt it, but...

01:36:33   He's not going to give you any money for it.

01:36:35   No, this is a costly adoption.

01:36:37   Not a free one. I'm sorry.

01:36:40   Okay.

01:36:42   Yeah, it's an exciting time.

01:36:44   And all the stuff that, you know, the reviewer said about how,

01:36:48   at least with the MacBook Air, it's the only one that I've played with,

01:36:51   it doesn't really ever get warm.

01:36:55   You know, sometimes when you set up a Mac at the beginning, it's like sinking.

01:36:57   Dropbox and iCloud photos and Spotlight is indexing everything and I could say

01:37:04   that under like you know where the the logic board is was warmer than the rest

01:37:10   of the case but by the most imperceptible amount you've ever felt

01:37:14   like I really had to kind of focus on okay is this actually warmer I mean it

01:37:19   really it's really impressive it's so unlike other Macs every other Mac I've

01:37:25   used where during that setup process in modern versions of Mac OS you're just

01:37:29   killing the thing it just took it all in stride and it was it really it really

01:37:36   impressed me okay yeah it's cool let's try one especially the MacBook Air

01:37:41   without the fan yeah yeah that's very interesting to me how has that been on

01:37:46   the pro mic are you hearing the fan no really no I don't know what I need to do

01:37:53   to try and make it happen but I know I'm not hearing it. And it stays cool most of the time?

01:37:58   I mean I have been using it connected to a monitor so I haven't really been holding it

01:38:04   as such so I can't attest to that right now but like I was downloading like three,

01:38:13   four hundred gigabytes from Dropbox right and setting up Dropbox in Rosetta and it's basically

01:38:21   like I wouldn't have known the machine was doing it while I'm setting it up. It's incredibly

01:38:29   impressive or like I have tools for encoding audio and stuff like that and they will set

01:38:35   the fans off on my Mac Mini for sure, sometimes on my iMac Pro but they've not been doing

01:38:41   it on this thing yet. And again I've only had a couple of days at most of trying to

01:38:47   treat this like it's my work machine because I'm basically just recording on my iMac, which

01:38:52   I'm recording now because I don't want to record on Big Sur, and then I move over everything

01:38:58   else to the Mac group or I'm editing on it, I'm doing all my other work on it, and it's

01:39:05   incredibly capable.

01:39:06   And I know I need more time, and I will be spending more time, we're going to keep talking

01:39:12   about this but Apple have pulled off something truly monumental here. One of my favorite,

01:39:19   there's two really great things I heard from reviews. One was from Dieter Bohn in the Verge

01:39:24   review and the Verge's review of these, the video review, is superb. It's so good. He said that

01:39:31   Apple basically had to pull off a thousand things to make this work and they did all of it,

01:39:35   which is a beautiful way of saying it. Like these could have stumbled anywhere and they haven't.

01:39:42   And I really like something that MKBHD said, where basically like, you can't compare these machines

01:39:49   on paper anymore to other computers in the same way that you can't compare iPhones to

01:39:55   Android phones because specs don't tell the story anymore. Because this 16 gigabytes of RAM thing,

01:40:02   I don't think it's a thing, right? And I saw a really good tweet thread from Matthew Pansarino,

01:40:09   where he was trying to show things that he was doing to his machine that should

01:40:13   slow it down if it only had "16GB of RAM" but it's not as simple as that anymore.

01:40:22   It's like this idea of the hardware/software integration thing that Apple believes in and

01:40:28   talks about so much, this now exists on the Mac so it's not possible to say we take this spec

01:40:36   and this spec and this spec and you add it against these and therefore that this machine

01:40:42   isn't as good because when you actually use the thing it's a totally different story.

01:40:46   So like one of the things that Matthew Panzorino was doing was like he opened like 500 chrome tabs

01:40:54   and chrome became completely unresponsive but the rest of the machine I saw that had no issue it was

01:41:00   running normally and logically you would think that that would if it was eating

01:41:09   up all the RAM your whole machine would start to suffer but that wasn't the case

01:41:14   right so like there's a lot more going on here why is when it why when it pages

01:41:20   out to memory it's paging out to SSD that's even faster than this generation

01:41:25   and I think that's gotten so fast that you really don't notice it as much.

01:41:31   Frankly it's like, okay, we need to understand and we need to appreciate

01:41:36   here that the Mac is going to start to become a black box, right? We need to

01:41:43   start to get comfortable with that, the Apple is going to start doing things

01:41:47   that we don't understand because it doesn't make sense based on the way that

01:41:50   it used to be, but if we can all agree to let that go, we're going to have vastly better computers.

01:41:57   I genuinely believe at some point in the not too distant future, you won't have a choice on RAM

01:42:04   anymore. You're not going to get that choice, but we need to trust them on it. I can see that

01:42:10   happening, maybe not on every machine, but on certain machines. That it's just like, this is how

01:42:15   it comes. In the same way that your iPhone and iPad, this is how they are and

01:42:20   do we ever complain right? Like they work great and I think we're moving that way

01:42:25   with the Mac. This machine has 100% sold me on that idea because I would not buy

01:42:32   a laptop with 16 gigabytes of RAM. I just wouldn't do it because it doesn't seem

01:42:36   like enough to me anymore. Like that's how I would think for the stuff

01:42:42   that I'm doing on my computer, but I don't think it's going to be a problem for me.

01:42:48   These are just absolutely fascinating computers.

01:42:54   This was in my power users right, about like, these are the slowest.

01:42:58   Yeah, they're the slowest Apple Silicon Macs we'll likely ever see.

01:43:05   I'm so excited for these next two years, I really am.

01:43:07   I keep thinking about what does a high-end iMac or even above, what does that look like?

01:43:14   I sort of just catch myself giggling a little bit.

01:43:17   Like, what are they going to do?

01:43:20   It's so much fun.

01:43:22   And if these three machines aren't for you, that's cool.

01:43:27   There will be a lot more coming.

01:43:29   So if you do need more memory or you want something with four Thunderbolt ports or whatever,

01:43:34   or just a bigger notebook.

01:43:36   I'm coming from a 16 inch MacBook Pro

01:43:38   and I put all my stuff on this Air

01:43:39   and yeah, it feels cramped to me.

01:43:42   It's just one of those things.

01:43:43   And so if these three don't fit, you know,

01:43:46   what you need out of a computer,

01:43:48   then like just wait a little bit longer.

01:43:50   This is gonna be just the first chapter

01:43:53   and that's super exciting seeing

01:43:55   how good these three machines are.

01:43:57   - Honestly, like this computer deserves more time

01:44:02   that I need to devote to it than an iPhone or an iPad.

01:44:05   and I don't mean that disparagingly,

01:44:07   but like I feel like I can get a really good sense of an iPhone or an iPad and

01:44:12   how I feel about it in about two days. Right?

01:44:15   I've been doing this for long enough now.

01:44:17   I feel like within a couple of days I understand it.

01:44:20   I feel like it's going to take me a lot longer to fully understand and get the

01:44:26   sense of what this Mac is capable of.

01:44:30   I don't feel like I can get that answer. You know what I mean?

01:44:33   - I actually totally agree.

01:44:36   And I don't think that all of it's even gonna be known

01:44:40   for quite a while,

01:44:41   'cause so much of it is based on the software story,

01:44:44   but hardware, what we have today,

01:44:46   what we can see is definitely a positive sign

01:44:49   of this transition going well.

01:44:51   - And I love Touch ID and me and the Touch bar friends,

01:44:54   and that's just the way it lives.

01:44:55   - So we're gonna take one last break,

01:44:57   and then as promised, Myke's TV OS review.

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01:46:34   You could have introduced me.

01:46:35   Oh yeah, I'll introduce you. So now, as promised and on time,

01:46:42   Michael Hurley is here with his tvOS review.

01:46:45   I like that, it is on time because this is when it's happening.

01:46:47   I can't believe it, it's happening. It's actually here. I just...

01:46:50   I've spent many hours working on this.

01:46:53   So I have a lot of notes.

01:46:55   I have way more notes than I would normally have for a topic.

01:46:58   So it is going to sound like some of this stuff is being read

01:47:02   because I am reading it.

01:47:03   So we can talk about it as we go through.

01:47:06   And I do welcome the two of you to have questions

01:47:10   if you have them and we can go through it.

01:47:12   This is four pages in our Google Doc.

01:47:14   Yeah, it's massive.

01:47:15   Like full outline, four pages.

01:47:18   I've been working on it for many weeks.

01:47:20   So I know I'm very I'm very glad to see this so please tell us about tvOS 14. tvOS itself debuted

01:47:28   way back in 2015. No one likes tech history what are you doing? You know earlier when we mentioned

01:47:35   about the tv Apple tv like hardware and stuff because I looked it all up like two days ago.

01:47:40   That's how you knew it then that's why I knew that. Back in 2015 when tvOS was introduced

01:47:48   the platform was being shown to us as app development.

01:47:51   That's what they wanted people to make apps.

01:47:53   The future of the TV is apps.

01:47:56   - Man, what a silly statement.

01:47:58   - Yeah, that's one of those things that's going to,

01:48:02   it's gonna haunt them for a while, I think.

01:48:05   You know, it's just one of those jokes

01:48:07   that we'll keep making and courage is another one of them.

01:48:10   Basically at that time, Apple kind of hoped

01:48:12   that they would be able to convince us

01:48:15   that the Apple TV wasn't just for video playing applications,

01:48:19   but for apps of all kinds.

01:48:21   They did the same with the watch.

01:48:23   Apple have it multiple times,

01:48:24   hoped that they would strike gold again,

01:48:26   and they've not been able to do that.

01:48:28   The next time we're gonna see it,

01:48:30   we're gonna be strapping devices to our faces,

01:48:32   and we're gonna see how that one goes.

01:48:34   At this point, they kind of believed,

01:48:37   I think that they could kind of usher in

01:48:38   some kind of renaissance for TV connected devices,

01:48:41   like they were about to change the game,

01:48:42   and there'd be an Apple TV in every household.

01:48:44   That was the goal, I assume.

01:48:46   You know, five years later, we know that didn't happen.

01:48:49   Like people are not buying new homes on their Apple TV.

01:48:53   Like, do you remember the shopping demo?

01:48:55   Yeah, there was actually a real estate app like those like a whole thing

01:48:58   that has not happened.

01:49:00   But also over those five year over that five year period,

01:49:05   Apple has changed its own ideas of what TV means to the company.

01:49:10   And rather than making just the platform or even just the apps,

01:49:14   they want to make their own content.

01:49:15   And that's what the last couple of years has really been focused on.

01:49:18   And this focus on the content over the platform,

01:49:22   I believe, has started to actually have an effect on tvOS itself.

01:49:26   I wouldn't say that the platform has been abandoned.

01:49:30   It clearly hasn't.

01:49:31   I'm here telling you about the newest version of it.

01:49:33   But I think that rather than it necessarily reaching maturity as a platform,

01:49:39   I think that there has maybe been some maturity forced upon it.

01:49:43   that Apple can't iterate and won't iterate the platform too much

01:49:48   rather than it reaching its logical conclusion.

01:49:50   But we'll get to that later on because TV OS 14 does have some new functionality.

01:49:55   So that kind of reminds me of the Apple watches early days, right?

01:50:02   The Apple watch was going to be this platform for apps and all this stuff.

01:50:06   And sure, Apple, I think very successfully has pivoted the Apple watch to where it is today.

01:50:12   and I'm not sure the TV and tvOS have made that corner yet.

01:50:18   I think that there's some similarities that could be drawn with the TV and the watch of

01:50:23   like, apps are still available, people can still make apps for the platform, but the

01:50:27   types of apps that are best made are very clear.

01:50:30   Games!

01:50:31   So if you make videos, and to some extent games, but if you have a video app, obviously

01:50:37   make an app for the Apple TV.

01:50:39   If you are a fitness company, obviously make an app for the Apple Watch, right?

01:50:44   There are definite tie-ins, whilst the platforms are still open, it's maybe not completely

01:50:51   like a wild west like it is for the iPhone.

01:50:54   So one of the features in TVOS 13 was multi-user support, which by the way, either of you use?

01:51:02   No.

01:51:03   I don't think many people do, but this year it has achieved a new feature, which it can

01:51:07   now keep track of game progress individually. So if you're all playing the same game in

01:51:12   a family, your progress is saved to your profile. Kind of can't believe that this wasn't the

01:51:18   case before, but nevertheless, this is a feature. Home is also a thing now in the control center,

01:51:27   which was revamped. Now the home support in tvOS is limited to just scenes and I don't

01:51:33   know why they've made this decision. I don't know why I can't at least get access to some

01:51:38   of my favorites or you know like or at least the access to the items that are within the

01:51:44   room that the TV is in. I would like to be able to turn on the lights that are in the

01:51:51   living room. Why not? But you can't do that.

01:51:53   You just have to make two dozen scenes.

01:51:57   It's just very peculiar to me as to like oh that there's no home app. I don't know why

01:52:01   there isn't a home app. Because you can view your cameras that are connected to the home

01:52:08   and you can control the scenes that are connected to the home, but you can't do anything else.

01:52:13   And I find that very peculiar. Everybody's favorite feature of the Apple TV is the screensavers

01:52:19   that Apple call aerials, which is a name that doesn't make sense anymore because 30% of

01:52:23   the content is underwater, but they still call them aerials. That's what they call.

01:52:29   else calls them aerials, everybody else calls them the Apple TV screensavers and I don't

01:52:32   know why Apple don't just call them that, but they are called aerials. But nevertheless,

01:52:38   one of the features in TV OS 14 is you can now choose which ones you want to include

01:52:42   in your rotation. You can't say like, I don't want the jellyfish one, you have to say you

01:52:46   don't want...

01:52:47   Yeah, no one, don't, don't, that one is the worst.

01:52:50   Nobody except me likes the jellyfish one, I like the jellyfish one, I like all the underwater

01:52:54   ones. But like people, a lot of people don't like the ocean ones. I really do. You can

01:53:00   now get rid of them if you want to. But you have to say like, don't show me the underwater

01:53:04   ones. Okay. Federico, remind me, are you a fan of the jellyfish? I don't think you like

01:53:09   the jellyfish either, do you? Fish should be either in the sea or on my plate when I

01:53:14   go to the restaurant. Not on your television? Not on my television. Is this like your campaign

01:53:19   in place for very much like a campaign platform.

01:53:21   No, it's a simple way of life.

01:53:24   And I think if you believe that you want to see a jellyfish on a television, we cannot

01:53:28   have a relationship as people.

01:53:31   Okay, so you're going to get rid of the fish ones then I suppose.

01:53:35   We mentioned this earlier, you can set a HomePod pair as the default audio output, which is

01:53:40   a great idea, as there are some apps that I used to struggle with.

01:53:44   I've been doing this for a while, I have two HomePods in a pair and they've been connected

01:53:47   to my Apple TV and it was really annoying because some apps you would have to force

01:53:52   quit the app, toggle the output, toggle the input and it was really annoying.

01:53:56   Unfortunately this feature has been far from perfect for me.

01:54:00   I have had tons of errors.

01:54:02   I've had it where the audio just stops working, I've had it where the content starts pausing,

01:54:09   I've had the content pause, I start it up again and then 20 seconds later the entire

01:54:14   TV turns off. I've had it where the Apple TV throws an error and says like this doesn't work,

01:54:23   we need to change back to your television audio. This is very buggy and unfortunately in adding

01:54:30   this new feature Apple no longer allow me to use it the other way that I used to use it.

01:54:37   Right? It will only do this new system, it won't allow me via AirPlay to send it to my HomePod pair.

01:54:43   so I can't revert. At this point I have done a few restarts of my home pods, I've repaired them

01:54:50   together, renamed the pair and now it is mostly working. So there's clearly some bugs to work out

01:54:58   here and it seems like if you refresh it enough it will work but and I've seen lots of threads

01:55:05   in the MacRumors forum, in Reddit people keep sending me these things which I appreciate.

01:55:11   this clearly bugs to this and I've yet to really come up with some kind of replicatable system to

01:55:18   try and report bugs for this, but it's as well because it keeps changing on me, right? Like,

01:55:24   the errors that I'm getting keep changing. So this clearly bugs to work out here, but I am happy

01:55:31   that this feature exists, but it needs work. Along with this, the audio indicator from iOS that shows

01:55:38   you an icon of what you're connected to has been added to tvOS which I like. So when I press the

01:55:44   volume up I see that the the little HomePod icon is there and they've also introduced audio sharing

01:55:50   to tvOS so multiple people could watch TV using AirPods together. I don't have any need for this

01:55:57   feature but I could imagine this, Stephen you can tell me if I'm wrong in thinking this, I could

01:56:02   imagine this being useful for parents to watch something together without disturbing sleeping

01:56:06   children? Absolutely, no absolutely. It's not really a problem in our house

01:56:11   where our TV is, is basically the other end of the house from all the bedrooms,

01:56:15   but if we were in a smaller place or you know it maybe if it was in our bedroom

01:56:19   and a kid was you know two doors down it would be a bigger deal. But yeah that's a

01:56:23   fantastic feature and I'm glad to see that it got added to the audio sharing

01:56:28   stuff, which in general the audio sharing stuff in iOS is really cool. It's very

01:56:32   But it always felt so weird to me that it wasn't possible for more than one or like you had like share a pair of airpods

01:56:39   And so now it's nice that you can have it sort of just on your own

01:56:42   Weirdly a feature of tv/os, but it's also a feature of big sir. So clearly Apple had to do some stuff is 4k YouTube. Yes

01:56:51   This is one of my favorite features because I have a lovely 4k television and now I can watch

01:56:57   YouTube videos in 4k with my Apple TV

01:57:00   I don't know what it is that Apple and Google had to do to make this one work

01:57:04   I think it's it's a rare case of some kind of deal being done with Apple and other companies

01:57:09   But I'm happy they did it was Apple adding support for Google's codecs. I mean Google didn't change anything. I don't think yeah, probably

01:57:18   I mean, I assume that's the case. But yeah, I'm very pleased that this has happened

01:57:22   I mean this is whatever it is

01:57:24   This has affected all of my devices like I can get 4k YouTube videos on my iPad now, too

01:57:30   as well. So I'm really pleased that this does work. And so yeah, I'm very, very happy about that.

01:57:36   Okay, so picture in picture is a thing that's been added to, and has actually been expanded in this

01:57:43   version of tvOS. So other companies can go into it, but it suffers from the same issue that we

01:57:51   see on iOS, and frankly from other parts of tvOS. If nobody adopts the feature, it's not going to be

01:57:58   be useful. Right. So, you know, like picture in picture is not as useful on my iOS devices

01:58:06   because YouTube doesn't support it. And frankly, most large companies, the apps that you want

01:58:15   to have be implemented, have no interest in supporting it. Either it's not going to align

01:58:21   with their plans or they don't think it's important enough or it just does not work

01:58:26   with the way that they implement video playback because they have some weird way that they do it.

01:58:31   And I think that this issue, this issue of picture in picture, is indicative of an issue with the

01:58:37   Apple TV, mainly the TV app. Like ultimately, the Apple TV would be a much better platform if all

01:58:44   the content that we wanted was actually in one application, right? Because it would allow us to

01:58:51   have truly universal search, we would have fully complete what to watch guides, everything would

01:58:56   be in one place, that would be great. It does make me feel like if Apple wouldn't have tried

01:59:03   to convince everyone to make apps and actually tried to just do deals with content producers,

01:59:10   we may actually be able to be closer to this than we are right now. I think that there is a world

01:59:17   where they could have worked to create an operating system that was more focused on providing tools to

01:59:22   to video companies to allow them to build experiences that work within frameworks that

01:59:26   Apple wanted, whilst also providing them with the information that they wanted.

01:59:30   I imagine something closer to News Plus.

01:59:33   Now I know that there's a bunch of issues there, but fundamentally the way that Apple

01:59:36   News Plus works is it's far more integrated into the news app, right?

01:59:41   Now they end up with the same problem where a lot of people just say, "No, I don't want

01:59:45   to do that."

01:59:46   And frankly, I don't think Apple is the company that would do the deals, nor do I think, "No,

01:59:51   lot of these companies want to do that kind of deal with Apple. But I do think that in

01:59:57   saying to people, "Hey, just make an app for this platform," they maybe shut themselves

02:00:02   in the foot with trying to make the TV app the home on the Apple TV. And that is what

02:00:08   Apple want, right? Like, by deep, I don't know if it's default, but Apple want you to

02:00:13   map the TV button to the TV button on your remote, right? That is what Apple wants to

02:00:20   be the desired hub, like that's what that does, basically for as long as Netflix isn't

02:00:26   there, it's not going to be the hub for people.

02:00:30   And I will be able to tell this story, this thought process, every year that I review

02:00:35   TV OS because it's always going to be a problem.

02:00:38   I think the TV app is not what it needs to be, the TV app should be vastly better and

02:00:45   they're not going to be able to get people to do it.

02:00:47   I can't imagine at this point a situation where this isn't going to be the case.

02:00:52   I think it gets even harder when you look at where Apple is right now.

02:00:59   I think at this point it's pretty clear that the main reason the Apple TV exists is so

02:01:03   Apple has a place of their own to offer their content and their services.

02:01:09   That's where the investment in this division is sitting.

02:01:11   I think it's becoming even clearer to me when as part of the tvOS updates, Apple lists their

02:01:18   shows and movies in the release splash screen.

02:01:21   So when you update tvOS, they're like, "Hey, we have these new shows."

02:01:25   Now, content is not tied to OS updates, but they are using these screens as another place

02:01:32   to advertise their content to you, which I think is fine.

02:01:35   It's not in your face when they do that.

02:01:37   It's like eight things on the page.

02:01:39   But it is funny to me that they're like, "Hey, we have this movie with Tom Hanks."

02:01:43   As if Tom was waiting for tvOS 14.2 before he released his movie.

02:01:48   I think that going forward, we're not going to see a lot of investment into tvOS as a

02:01:53   platform.

02:01:55   But I think that Apple are going to continue doing things to the TV app.

02:01:59   That's what they want you to be able to use.

02:02:01   Because, as well as their own content, stuff you buy from their store shows there.

02:02:07   you subscribe to channels, it's all there. And frankly, at this point, that app is everywhere,

02:02:13   right? They have a version of that TVO app on Samsung televisions. It's on the Fire TV.

02:02:20   So I think that the TV app itself will be where the majority of investment is going

02:02:26   into. But also because that TV app is splintered across different platforms, I don't think

02:02:32   it's going to be able to develop as quickly as it would be if it was on the Apple TV only.

02:02:40   The Apple's kind of attention in this field is split now and I struggle to see a future

02:02:46   where this means that tvOS gets pushed significantly further because they have like three separate

02:02:54   things going on. They have the content, they have TV app and TV app on other platforms,

02:03:02   and then TV OS. And I just don't see a world in which TV OS gets the focus out of those

02:03:10   three things. I think that it is definitely lowest down on that list. And I do feel like

02:03:17   I can argue that the investments that they should be making really are around refinements,

02:03:22   new features, which I'm fine with.

02:03:24   Like there are refinements they can continue to make to tvOS,

02:03:27   but really what I want to see them do is make the TV app itself

02:03:33   better and somehow try to convince more content providers

02:03:37   to put their content in it.

02:03:39   But I don't see a future of that happening.

02:03:41   So in conclusion, I think tvOS itself

02:03:45   really is indicative of where Apple as a company is in many ways.

02:03:51   Their business models are changing and they're continuing to change.

02:03:55   They're changing in a way that wasn't even thought about

02:03:59   when they created the product lines.

02:04:01   And it's all with an increase towards services.

02:04:04   And this platform is now there to just help them get their services to you.

02:04:09   TV+, Fitness+, these are services with the Apple TV at heart,

02:04:14   but the Apple TV is not important in them.

02:04:16   It's just a vessel to get this content to you.

02:04:20   And for as long as they can keep coming up for things to add to Apple One,

02:04:24   tvOS is going to be around because it's a way to get these services to your television.

02:04:29   But I don't think it's because tvOS itself is a successful platform.

02:04:34   It's just because that's where they can get this content to you. That is tvOS 14.

02:04:39   Thank you.

02:04:40   Oh, there you go.

02:04:41   It was good.

02:04:42   Thank you. That was really good.

02:04:43   It wouldn't be done. Thank you.

02:04:45   There was a question in the Discord. Could you imagine the most recent Apple TV being the last

02:04:51   Apple TV? Like not selling a hardware product anymore? No, I think they're going to continue

02:04:55   selling hardware products. I do too. There's a lot of people who don't have TVs that support

02:05:00   this stuff, right? There's a lot of brands. The current Apple TV is getting quite old. Yes. And

02:05:05   at some point they're going to have to replace it. Maybe the next one is the last one for a while.

02:05:14   I don't know. I don't know what processor will be in it now.

02:05:18   I mean, who knows? Maybe they put an M chip in it.

02:05:20   Let's just go wild. The TV one. TV one. There you go.

02:05:23   But I don't think Apple is out of this market yet for the reasons I mentioned.

02:05:29   I also, of course, Apple Arcade is one of the other parts of the services platform,

02:05:35   and that is on Apple TV. To have an Apple Arcade app,

02:05:39   you need to support the Apple TV, I believe. I think that's pretty standard.

02:05:42   So I can imagine, I don't think that the TV is going to go away.

02:05:46   And also I think that I believe that there will be an update to the Apple TV

02:05:51   hardware over in the next six months. Yeah.

02:05:53   Or the next six weeks because that's bought one. I think it's possible. Yes.

02:05:56   Uh, well thank you for that. I do,

02:05:59   I do wonder if at some point Apple de-emphasize like TV OS being a product and it

02:06:04   just kind of gets updates when iOS comes out,

02:06:11   but they kind of quit talking about it as a platform for all the reasons that you mentioned that it's really a

02:06:16   framework for content be plugged into and

02:06:20   Okay, again control center one year like that doesn't necessarily need a big marketing name and marketing push

02:06:25   I am in line with what you're saying, but coming at it from a different angle

02:06:29   Which is that if they stopped referring to it

02:06:33   Then they would have to update every year on the same schedule as iOS which is kind of what they've been doing

02:06:38   I imagine it actually going a little bit closer to the Mac or different to that where it's that maybe don't do it every year

02:06:44   Maybe it's every 15 months or something. Like I can actually I can imagine pace slowing down

02:06:50   but similarly to what you're saying of like

02:06:53   De-emphasizing tvOS is one of our four platforms. I could imagine that changing quite significantly in the coming years

02:07:01   I think that about does it y'all. I think so. Right if you want to find links to stuff

02:07:06   we spoke about head on over to relay.fm/connected/321. There there's some fun stuff you can take part

02:07:15   in. You can send us an email with feedback or follow up. You can also become a member

02:07:20   and you'll receive connected Pro which is a that's hard to believe this week a longer

02:07:26   ad free version of the show. You also get a lot of awesome goodies that all relay FM

02:07:31   members get so go check that out. And for those of you who are supporting connected

02:07:34   or any of our shows directly, thank you very much.

02:07:37   You can find us all online, you can find Myke online as @imyke.

02:07:44   Myke hosts a bunch of shows here on Relay FM, he also has a Twitch channel.

02:07:48   Myke you're streaming later this week, right?

02:07:50   Yeah, I sure am.

02:07:52   Friday the 20th at 11am Eastern Time for PMGMT at Myke.live.

02:07:58   I'm going to be building a keyboard from scratch called the Mode 80.

02:08:01   It is a significantly more difficult keyboard than any keyboard I've built so far so could be fun could be

02:08:07   Disastrous either way check it out on mic.live. Okay

02:08:10   You can find Federico online as well

02:08:14   He is Vitici on Twitter V I T I CCI and he's the editor and chief of

02:08:20   Mac stories dotnet Federico. I have a question for you, of course. Okay, okay

02:08:28   Tell me about an amazing adventure that you have been on.

02:08:33   Amazing adventure. Uh-huh. Yeah, one time a few years ago, I

02:08:40   flew to California.

02:08:43   I slept there one night and I came back to Italy the following day.

02:08:47   That's the story. I did that for an Apple event.

02:08:56   I left at 1pm my time.

02:08:59   I arrived in San Francisco at 9pm, checked in at the hotel,

02:09:05   slept for like five hours, woke up, had breakfast with Matthew Panzareno,

02:09:10   went to the event and came back to Italy.

02:09:15   You scared me in the middle though.

02:09:17   Why?

02:09:18   Right? Wasn't that the one where you surprised me on upgrade?

02:09:24   Or was that a different time?

02:09:26   -I think it was that time. -It was that time.

02:09:29   It was that time. Yes, yes.

02:09:31   Because after the event, we went to lunch,

02:09:33   and then we did the surprise, and then I went back to the --

02:09:36   I went back to the hotel and then the airport.

02:09:39   -So, we're hot on the heels of a big event today.

02:09:46   -It's a huge event.

02:09:48   A huge, huge event today.

02:09:51   You're referring to the fact that I met Federico Vittucci,

02:09:54   right? Oh yeah of course that's the only event that I met. Yeah this is a what

02:09:58   was the best-kept secret of the day was that Federico Vittigia arrived in

02:10:03   San Francisco today to partake in the Apple event. He got an invite. We'll talk

02:10:09   about that on Connected. That's a whole big story. I'm looking forward to

02:10:13   Connected this week actually. Or we can talk about it now if you want Myke.

02:10:17   Hello?

02:10:18   Oh my god that really scared me.

02:10:21   Hi Federico!

02:10:22   Hi Myke, how are you?

02:10:23   What are you doing there?

02:10:24   A podcast, have you?

02:10:25   How long have you been there?

02:10:26   The whole time.

02:10:27   The whole time.

02:10:28   It's because I didn't say anything bad about you.

02:10:33   Hey buddy!

02:10:34   Hi, now I know that I can trust you.

02:10:38   Because you didn't say anything bad about me.

02:10:40   Yeah, well there's probably something on the lines that I love you.

02:10:43   Hey, how are you doing?

02:10:45   I'm doing well.

02:10:46   I wonder what Jason was kind enough to invite me here.

02:10:50   It was awesome.

02:10:51   - Federica was kind enough to say, "Sure, let's do a podcast."

02:10:54   - Federica.

02:10:55   - He was like, "Do you wanna do a podcast with Myke?"

02:10:56   I'm like, "Yeah."

02:10:57   - You're gonna have to keep your special stories

02:10:59   for "Connected," you know, right?

02:11:01   - Yes. - Okay.

02:11:01   - You can't cheat on "Connected."

02:11:02   - We'll focus on the news of the day

02:11:04   and save those stories for "Connected."

02:11:06   - That sounds like fun.

02:11:07   (upbeat music)

02:11:10   - That's a good adventure story, thank you.

02:11:12   You can find me on Twitter as ismh

02:11:14   my writing at 512 pixels dotnet.

02:11:17   I'd like to thank my wife, Mary, for joining you all earlier in the show.

02:11:20   That was a lot of fun.

02:11:21   I'd just like to thank our sponsors, Mac Weldon, command line, heroes,

02:11:25   tower and Hawthorne until next week.

02:11:28   Gentlemen say goodbye.

02:11:29   Cheerio.