306: Big Shoes to Phil


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   - Hello and welcome to Connected episode 305.

00:00:13   It's not 305.

00:00:14   - Isn't it?

00:00:15   - 306.

00:00:16   - It's 306.

00:00:17   - Oh.

00:00:18   (upbeat music)

00:00:26   Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 306.

00:00:30   It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:32   Ahrefs, Pingdom, and Hover.

00:00:34   My name is Stephen Hackett

00:00:35   and I'm joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci.

00:00:38   - Hello, Stephen Hackett.

00:00:39   - Hello Federico, how are you?

00:00:42   - I'm good, I'm good.

00:00:43   - Good. - How are you?

00:00:44   - Pretty good.

00:00:45   It's August now, which is weird,

00:00:48   but time keeps ticking away, you know?

00:00:52   - Mm-hmm, don't mention it, I know.

00:00:56   We're also joined by Myke Hurley.

00:00:58   It's a me, Michael.

00:01:00   It's a me Michael, it's a me Michael.

00:01:03   Yeah.

00:01:03   It's a me.

00:01:05   I have that Lego coming and I'm so friggin excited.

00:01:09   The Mario Lego.

00:01:10   You got the Mario Lego.

00:01:11   I haven't got it yet.

00:01:12   It's on the way.

00:01:13   I did do something silly, which I need to resolve in a typical Myke fashion.

00:01:18   So there's the, I think I referenced the NES Lego on a previous episode, right?

00:01:24   But as well as that, LEGO have the Mario sets, where they're like these little play sets with the LED eye Mario.

00:01:32   You know what I'm talking about? You guys must have seen these. I know Federico has.

00:01:35   Stephen, have you seen these? The Mario LEGO sets?

00:01:38   Yeah, they look great.

00:01:39   Yeah, so I accidentally ordered two of these.

00:01:43   [laughs]

00:01:45   Because...

00:01:45   Oh, why you keep doing this?

00:01:47   Because I don't pay attention to what I'm doing. I rush. So this is what happened.

00:01:51   The NES Lego went up for sale and I wanted to get that quick

00:01:54   and you couldn't preorder that, right?

00:01:55   So I ordered it fast and then thought to myself,

00:01:59   oh, I want to make sure I have the Mario starter set, because

00:02:03   if you have one of those two Marios and you put it on top of the NES set,

00:02:07   when you turn the crank, it plays the music of what's happening on the screen,

00:02:12   which I just think is friggin awesome, so clever.

00:02:14   So I wanted to get that.

00:02:15   So I did. I ordered them both and they're both on the way.

00:02:18   But what I didn't remember is back in April, because who knows about anything in the past,

00:02:24   back in April when they announced the Mario sets you could pre-order them.

00:02:28   And I did pre-order the starter set.

00:02:32   So now I have two starter sets on the way.

00:02:35   So I guess someone's gonna get that for Christmas.

00:02:39   That's what I'm thinking.

00:02:41   - Hopefully they're not listening. - That second set, like probably my younger brother's gonna get that for Christmas.

00:02:46   That's probably what's gonna happen with that one.

00:02:47   This is a very John Borhies thing to do.

00:02:50   It is, isn't it?

00:02:51   It is.

00:02:51   I guess I'm getting to John's age, I suppose.

00:02:54   John is 33 years old, so.

00:02:56   [LAUGHTER]

00:03:00   Yes, he is.

00:03:01   And I'm nearly there.

00:03:02   I'm nearly there.

00:03:03   Times two.

00:03:04   Steven, how old are you again?

00:03:06   I am--

00:03:07   42?

00:03:08   34.

00:03:09   I thought it was two years.

00:03:10   Yeah.

00:03:10   I heard that on upgrade.

00:03:12   I was talking about this on upgrade.

00:03:13   Yeah.

00:03:13   Yeah, I forgot how old you were.

00:03:15   You're 34?

00:03:15   34, yeah.

00:03:16   You're 34.

00:03:17   - Yep, I'll be 35 early next year.

00:03:20   - Ooh, that seems unfortunate, 35.

00:03:22   I don't like the sound of that.

00:03:23   - 35 is the age that Dante wrote the Divine Comedy.

00:03:26   - Oh, so close to me. - What are you gonna do

00:03:27   in your final year before you're at that level?

00:03:29   - Yeah. - I mean, I think

00:03:30   my big Sur review's gonna be pretty decent.

00:03:32   (laughing)

00:03:34   - They'll say in years to come.

00:03:36   35, that was the age that Steven wrote the big Sur review.

00:03:39   - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah.

00:03:41   - You know, hopefully I'll review the first R-Mac.

00:03:43   Plan to do that, so.

00:03:45   I got a lot of exciting stuff, man.

00:03:46   I'm gonna have a snack after we record.

00:03:49   It's looking up over here.

00:03:50   - But you're not 35 yet, so that won't count for the snack.

00:03:53   - Not yet.

00:03:54   That's true, the snack is a warm up.

00:03:56   - You're riding into the sunset

00:03:58   with a bunch of great stories, Stephen.

00:04:00   - I hope it's not the sunset.

00:04:01   - Nope, goodbye, Stephen.

00:04:03   That's it for you.

00:04:05   Nice knowing you.

00:04:07   - Oh boy.

00:04:09   All right, let's do some follow up.

00:04:11   Follow up.

00:04:13   Discontent with our NASCAR coverage.

00:04:16   Listener Michael has now created an F1 car.

00:04:19   Basically, Listener Michael, Myke.

00:04:22   No, it's not me.

00:04:24   It's not me.

00:04:25   Okay.

00:04:27   And it's spectacular.

00:04:29   It's so good.

00:04:30   Oh my God.

00:04:31   It's very good.

00:04:32   This is it for me.

00:04:33   Like this is one I'm looking for.

00:04:35   This is amazing.

00:04:38   Couple of questions.

00:04:39   I mean, I appreciate it,

00:04:42   but why is the Club Max Stories logo in there?

00:04:45   Because it's all... Okay, so Formula 1 cars are covered in sponsors.

00:04:50   No, no, that I get. It just feels like it was pretty like relay-themed.

00:04:56   But I do appreciate it.

00:04:57   It's the themes of the three of us, right?

00:04:58   Yeah.

00:04:59   I mean, arguably, I have the least to do with this F1 car.

00:05:03   Although Myke was right, it does sit just over the air intake.

00:05:06   Myke was right.

00:05:07   But there's something that is related to all of us, right?

00:05:10   512 pixels is on there.

00:05:11   We have the weird fish on there.

00:05:13   Remember the milk is on here.

00:05:15   Remember the milk, the dog cow, the Macintosh, the seal of quality is in there.

00:05:20   Yeah.

00:05:20   This is really well done.

00:05:22   It's really good.

00:05:22   It's really well done.

00:05:23   Yeah, I like it.

00:05:24   I like it.

00:05:25   It's very nice.

00:05:26   Are you still following Formula One, Myke?

00:05:28   Oh, so badly, man.

00:05:29   I love it.

00:05:30   Any key updates that we should know about?

00:05:34   One of the races has coronavirus.

00:05:35   Oh, okay.

00:05:38   We talked about that.

00:05:38   We'll do a buy then.

00:05:39   Oh, no.

00:05:41   because they went home, they left the country and they now have coronavirus.

00:05:48   That's unfortunate. He's doing okay though, you know, but he does have it.

00:05:52   I did see the clip where the guy finished with a flat tire which seems like a miracle to me.

00:05:58   I've seen that on the news as well. He was going like 140 miles an hour with three wheels.

00:06:03   It's unbelievable. And it happened on the final lap, it was incredible.

00:06:08   You could see Lewis Hamilton, of course. Second place was like coming around the last bend,

00:06:14   right? It was like catching up to him because obviously like Lewis was going slower because

00:06:18   he had three wheels. It was a thrilling end to the final race. So I'm really loving F1 boys. I'm

00:06:24   it. Like I don't, you know, I just want to say I'm not the person who keeps bringing it up. People

00:06:28   keep bringing it up around me and they get me talking about it. Uh, but I'm loving it. I'm a

00:06:32   I'm a big sports boy now.

00:06:34   I'm just telling you, if you ever want to practice, there's a circuit very close to

00:06:39   our place here.

00:06:40   I don't think you understand.

00:06:42   You can practice.

00:06:45   What am I practicing?

00:06:46   Start very slow.

00:06:47   Start very slow with like a go-kart or something.

00:06:49   Right, right.

00:06:50   Formula 1 isn't like soccer, you know, like you can't go play Formula 1 with your friends.

00:06:55   Can't you just practice Formula 1?

00:06:57   I don't think so.

00:06:58   I feel like Formula 1 today. Let me drive at 200km/h. I'm just telling you, if you ever

00:07:11   change your mind, we have an actual circuit. Do you call them circuits or tracks? What

00:07:16   do you call them? It depends. They can be circuits or tracks. Do you know the name of

00:07:21   the circuit that you're talking about? Well, actually let me double check. I don't think

00:07:28   it's enabled. Okay, so Vallelunga Circuit, let's see... held the Rome Grand Prix.

00:07:41   Wow. Okay. Vallelunga Circuit. Yeah, being used by the new configuration as received

00:07:48   a promulgation from the FIA as a test circuit being used by various Formula

00:07:54   one team. Yep, unfortunately it's not one of the ones in the actual calendar but

00:07:59   it is used in some some regards. There you go.

00:08:01   ACI Velolunga circuit will be in the show notes because people need to know.

00:08:06   Yes and it's like I would say 30 minutes away from here so yeah 20 miles north of

00:08:12   Rome. Yeah, yeah I remember correctly. You would think it was a slow news week.

00:08:19   If you ever want to practice.

00:08:21   It isn't.

00:08:21   I mean, look at those sweet bends.

00:08:22   Can you imagine you just jarring there, you know?

00:08:26   Yeah.

00:08:26   Risking your life for the glory of the show.

00:08:29   That would be incredible.

00:08:30   Yeah.

00:08:30   That's what I need to do.

00:08:31   Formula one before I have my driving license.

00:08:35   It's a beautiful idea.

00:08:38   I have some bad news.

00:08:40   Green Gate continues to take over the world.

00:08:43   This is not a thing like this and the year of Steven.

00:08:46   Like--

00:08:48   The thing that you are referring to has absolutely zero to do with the previous issue.

00:08:55   No, it's green and it happened to me.

00:08:57   That's literally the whole basis of it.

00:08:59   Then your avatar on Twitter is also suffering from green gate.

00:09:02   Just the left side of it.

00:09:04   Right, okay.

00:09:06   It's partial green.

00:09:07   Can you explain to people that can't see what we're talking about, please?

00:09:10   Yes, there's a link in the show notes to this.

00:09:12   I have big Sur on my MacBook Pro.

00:09:16   And in beta three, I don't actually know about beta four yet.

00:09:21   But in beta three, at least when I started up, all of the touch bar buttons are lime

00:09:26   green except the dim brightness button.

00:09:30   But the increased brightness, the keyboard brightness controls, the volume controls,

00:09:35   all just bright green, and you log in and then after a minute, it goes away and it acts

00:09:41   normally.

00:09:42   I love that something has happened where the touch bar finally got an update.

00:09:47   That's the real new thing.

00:09:48   Yeah, people are always complaining that nothing's happening with the touch bar, but something

00:09:52   new has happened with the touch bar, so, you know, job done.

00:09:56   Bright green.

00:09:57   I mean, how do you even come across a bug that does that?

00:10:02   I'd love to know how these things work.

00:10:04   The chat room is calling it "Green Sur."

00:10:06   So that's what we're going to go with.

00:10:08   What is green in Spanish? Verde is in Italian so I want to say "vierde" maybe in Spanish.

00:10:16   Yeah I think that's it. So this would be what? Verde sur? If you want to give it a go, Federico,

00:10:23   because I can't do it. Let me just double check. No it is verde, but it's with the...

00:10:29   I can't roll the R's. Are you sure that it's... let's see, Spanish...

00:10:35   Hey, it's very so verdesur. There you go. Very good. Very good. Yes. I

00:10:42   Have not by the way seen this on my iPhone. So the the Green Gate has

00:10:47   Migrated from my phone to my laptop. It hasn't has it's a different thing. It hasn't this is like

00:10:53   Like we are talking about nothing here. Like you just had a bunch of green buttons. Yes

00:10:58   It's completely 100% unrelated to what happened to you last time

00:11:04   You're not a software developer.

00:11:06   So the screen of your iPhone, slightly tinting green,

00:11:10   Yes.

00:11:11   Is the same issue as the buttons on your touch bar

00:11:15   being green some of the time when you're logging in.

00:11:19   Yeah, it's a Bonjour bug.

00:11:21   The green traveled across the network.

00:11:23   It's a Bonjour bug.

00:11:24   Do any devices still support that old technology?

00:11:27   Everything.

00:11:28   Yeah, Bonjour is everywhere.

00:11:29   That's how you print.

00:11:31   That's how you do file sharing.

00:11:33   It's all there.

00:11:34   Sure.

00:11:35   Really?

00:11:35   Is this a co-bonjour?

00:11:36   Yeah.

00:11:37   Bonjour, big sir.

00:11:38   Bonjour, mademoiselle.

00:11:41   Oh my god.

00:11:42   This is Federico.

00:11:44   Oh, yes.

00:11:45   Bonjour.

00:11:46   Bonjour is a beautiful word, I think.

00:11:47   It is a beautiful word, isn't it?

00:11:49   I really like the sound of the French language,

00:11:53   but I cannot, like, I don't understand a single word of it.

00:11:56   But I really do love the sound of it.

00:11:58   The language of love?

00:11:59   But I can only say, like, three words in French.

00:12:03   which are?

00:12:04   Bonjour, mademoiselle. There are two of them.

00:12:07   Okay, what's the third one?

00:12:09   Merci.

00:12:10   Ah, good, they are three, they're correct, they are three French words.

00:12:14   "C'est vous plait", which is more like an expression.

00:12:16   Well, that's more, you've got up to like five or six now.

00:12:18   Yeah, yeah, and then I know a bunch of names of football players. That doesn't really count.

00:12:23   That's not a word, no.

00:12:25   I know a bunch of names of boroughs in Paris, like Montmartre, for example, that doesn't apply.

00:12:31   You saw yourself short a minute ago. You only knew three words and now it's infinite.

00:12:34   I actually know a bunch of words. I can speak French.

00:12:37   You can move. You can move now.

00:12:38   I can go. Okay. Alright. Bye. Let's see. I gotta catch a plane to Paris.

00:12:42   Good luck.

00:12:43   Let's go.

00:12:44   That's the luck to you.

00:12:47   You know Bonjour used to be called Rendezvous and then they got sued.

00:12:50   Really? So it's always been like a French name.

00:12:53   Yeah. They got sued by TIBCO Software, which I don't know, but my guess is they're not

00:12:59   business anymore. This is in 2005. Well they probably cashed out when they won

00:13:04   that old Apple lawsuit. Yeah and then Apple had to change it to Bonjour, which is a

00:13:07   better name anyway I think. Oh, real-time follow-up, TIPCO is still very much

00:13:14   alive. They're strong. Mm-hmm. They fuel the modern enterprise through TIPCO

00:13:19   connected intelligence. Don't we all though really, like if you think about it.

00:13:23   They IPO'd at one point. They have a COVID notice on top of their website

00:13:28   because everyone has to do that. They make it possible to unlock the potential of your

00:13:33   real-time data for making faster, smarter decisions.

00:13:35   That's nice.

00:13:37   Pretty good. Way to go.

00:13:39   Way to go, Tipco.

00:13:41   Big Bonjour energy.

00:13:43   Okay.

00:13:44   We want to talk about Phil?

00:13:50   Yeah.

00:13:51   Okay. So yesterday, as we record this, it was announced, amongst other things, which

00:13:56   we'll get to, is that Phil Schiller is stepping out

00:14:00   of the SVP of Worldwide Product Marketing.

00:14:04   He's held that title for a long time.

00:14:06   He's been at Apple for 30 years,

00:14:08   which is just an incredible run.

00:14:10   He is becoming an Apple Fellow,

00:14:12   which if you're not familiar with this,

00:14:13   Myke, you mentioned this Lincoln upgrade,

00:14:15   we'll have it again here.

00:14:17   It's a list of basically all dudes who worked for Apple

00:14:20   at some point who have great history with Apple

00:14:23   and they get sort of awarded this title.

00:14:26   It's just not an Apple felon by the way

00:14:28   This is all men and I didn't notice this when I was recording upgraded

00:14:34   I saw a few people mention it afterwards and like there are many

00:14:38   Prominent women who have worked for Apple like just to name one name would be Susan care, right?

00:14:43   It was responsible still to this day for a lot of the iconography that we see

00:14:47   In the operating system right like things came from the work that care did years and years and years ago

00:14:53   Yeah, it's wild that

00:14:55   they wouldn't have put... it's not even the idea of like, "oh this should be a more diverse list"

00:15:01   but just like to have this list of people and care not to be in it is very strange.

00:15:06   It just feels incomplete. Like how is she not in it? Like she of all people should be in here.

00:15:11   Yeah.

00:15:12   Also who are these other people?

00:15:15   There's so many names here, I have no idea.

00:15:17   Don Norman and Rich Page.

00:15:19   Don Norman.

00:15:21   Rich page feels like what I would tell my editor when I send my draft.

00:15:25   So it's a rich page.

00:15:26   That's good.

00:15:27   This is a rich page edit.

00:15:28   Yes.

00:15:29   There are people that I have no idea who they are.

00:15:31   So it's kind of, if you look at this site, all of the names in red I've never heard of

00:15:35   and the names in blue I have heard of, which makes sense because the names in red don't

00:15:39   have corresponding pages.

00:15:40   Although you gotta say, like you gotta say, what a name, Gary Starkweather.

00:15:47   Like what's your last name?

00:15:48   Starkweather.

00:15:49   It's like, okay, I don't want to mess with this guy.

00:15:51   In Starkweather.

00:15:53   Don Norman worked on, he kind of like put together the idea of user experience.

00:15:59   He worked for Apple in the nineties and Gary Starkweather was also at Apple in

00:16:06   the nineties and invented color management technology.

00:16:10   So like color sync and things to keep your display color accurate over time.

00:16:14   He did a bunch of that stuff.

00:16:15   And he just recently passed away.

00:16:18   Christmas last year. Why did we make a joke of his name? I'm so sorry. I would like to apologize to the Stark

00:16:26   Weather family. I also apologize. Mm-hmm. You have a great name. Oh, he used to work at

00:16:32   Xerox. Yeah, yeah, a lot of Xerox PARC DNA in this list. Rich Page, by the way, he was one of the

00:16:43   first four Apple Fellows. He worked on early compilers and hardware development. In fact,

00:16:50   he brought in the Motorola 6800K family of microprocessors for the least amount of time.

00:16:55   All right, we're not doing a great job here of pointing out that it should be a more mixed

00:17:00   list and then just spending time listing the accomplishments of all of the men on this

00:17:04   list that we never heard of.

00:17:06   He later rage quit Next.

00:17:07   Oh, Jesus, we're doing it. All right, let's actually go back to talking about Phil Schiller,

00:17:10   right?

00:17:11   - Apple fellow, he still has a job at Apple.

00:17:15   He's not just like hanging out in the pool, I guess.

00:17:18   He will continue to lead the App Store and Apple events,

00:17:22   which is the team that I guess puts on events.

00:17:25   There's this thing in the press release

00:17:26   about how he led the effort to make WBCC 2020 virtual.

00:17:31   And I think that's cool.

00:17:32   I think he did a good job with that.

00:17:33   I think we all liked how that went.

00:17:35   So he is still going to be doing those things,

00:17:38   but the worldwide product marketing job

00:17:41   is now going to Jaws, who has also been at Apple

00:17:44   for a long time, 20 years I think,

00:17:46   and I think it is a good job where we see him

00:17:51   and we've seen him more over the years,

00:17:53   and so I think he's got big shoes to fill,

00:17:54   but I think he's up for the job.

00:17:56   - I feel like I don't really know a lot about Jaws.

00:18:01   Like I feel like I see him every now and then,

00:18:05   but I don't feel like I have as much of a,

00:18:10   Like, oh, I know what this person's about

00:18:12   as I do some of the other people

00:18:14   that are on Apple's executive leadership page.

00:18:17   Maybe that's gonna change now, we'll find out, I guess.

00:18:20   - I do think that the timing of this is kinda interesting.

00:18:24   Now, let me just say upfront how I think

00:18:28   Phil had an incredible career,

00:18:30   and working for such a long time at any company

00:18:33   is an accomplishment in itself.

00:18:35   To do this, like, to work at the same place

00:18:38   for over 30 years, I think it's an amazing achievement.

00:18:42   And we all know how this person has led

00:18:48   some pretty incredible projects over the years.

00:18:50   And I don't think I tip my head to this kind of career.

00:18:55   However, at the same time, like in 2020,

00:18:59   I think your mind goes, or at least my mind goes,

00:19:03   to the timing of this.

00:19:06   And I've seen some tweets about this

00:19:07   from Ben Thompson and Steve Chatonsmith.

00:19:11   I don't know, obviously I know nothing, right?

00:19:16   This internal dynamics.

00:19:18   I have no idea what's going on actually,

00:19:21   but it doesn't really surprise me

00:19:25   that this is happening now of all time periods

00:19:29   in the history of Apple,

00:19:31   with all the things going on around the App Store

00:19:34   and the antitrust cases going on.

00:19:36   Now, obviously, like Apple is saying,

00:19:39   how Phil is still going to continue to lead and oversee

00:19:42   the App Store.

00:19:44   I do agree with Ben Thompson's take from yesterday.

00:19:48   Like he wrote, I'd be really surprised

00:19:50   if he's still overseeing the App Store in six months.

00:19:53   I think six months may be a little too short a time frame.

00:19:57   But personally, I would be really surprised

00:19:59   if he's still overseeing the App Store in a year.

00:20:02   That's what I would say.

00:20:03   I don't think it's a coincidence.

00:20:05   This is happening now.

00:20:06   I think-- I don't think a lot of people on Twitter, especially,

00:20:11   a lot of folks who follow Apple, I

00:20:12   don't think they have a grasp just

00:20:14   to how bad the antitrust stuff is going to be, both in the US

00:20:19   and in the EU.

00:20:20   And I don't think Apple is getting away with this easily.

00:20:24   And I think Apple must be pretty aware of this, right?

00:20:30   And I think if you know that something's going down

00:20:33   over the next several months.

00:20:36   Obviously you wanna be prepared.

00:20:37   Obviously you wanna have,

00:20:39   you gotta have a transition of power.

00:20:41   You gotta show that you're changing.

00:20:42   And you gotta show that you're, you know,

00:20:45   you are making changes for whatever's gonna happen.

00:20:49   And so, I do believe, I personally believe,

00:20:54   again, without taking away anything from Phil's career,

00:20:58   that's out of the question.

00:20:59   But as far as the modern app store goes,

00:21:02   as far as the politics surrounding the antitrust cases go, I think that maybe

00:21:08   this current situation accelerated this process, right? I mean, obviously, Phil

00:21:13   turned 60, so he's had an incredible career. Could have still worked at Apple, I

00:21:19   don't know, but I do feel like maybe, you know, all these things going on

00:21:24   accelerated this process of, you know, it's the same thing that

00:21:30   happened with Johnny Ive and when we were saying, oh, he's obviously on his way out.

00:21:34   When he became chief design officer. When he became chief, a lot of people were

00:21:38   really upset and like, how can you say that this is now, it means he's retiring, it means

00:21:44   he's going to be more important now. It's like, and we were saying at the time, no,

00:21:49   this is obviously the sign of Johnny slowly but surely retiring from Apple. And sure enough,

00:21:55   happen a couple of years later and I think this is at least for me very

00:22:01   reminiscent of that in terms like the dynamic maybe like it feels like there's

00:22:07   there's a I don't know maybe this is just my feeling it just feel like

00:22:11   there's more sympathy towards Phil than Johnny I don't know how just my my

00:22:16   personal feeling like well the reason is because Phil is an app gave a

00:22:20   personality to the world where Johnny was more shut off by his own decision I

00:22:26   just wanted to clarify a point for you if that's okay Federico because you

00:22:31   reference Ben Thompson and he on the Dithering podcast that he does with John

00:22:37   Gruber he kind of clarified his point a little bit which is slightly different

00:22:41   to what I think his original tweet seemed to indicate he doesn't he if I'm

00:22:45   summing up his point correctly, which I may not be, is basically saying that he actually

00:22:52   probably has stayed as the head of the App Store because of what's going on right now.

00:22:58   Not that he is leaving Apple because of what's going on right now.

00:23:01   Right.

00:23:02   Right, so it's like they maybe don't want to say that the App Store is under somebody

00:23:06   else's control right now because it's going to be a tough job.

00:23:10   So like they will have him do it.

00:23:11   But the idea of him, as I don't know if you're saying this, but I've seen people say this,

00:23:15   The idea of Phil leaving Apple because of the App Store stuff is incredible.

00:23:20   It just doesn't make, it's very unlikely.

00:23:23   It doesn't make sense to me either because if your thought was like, "Oh, I need to run

00:23:26   away from this."

00:23:27   Like if there was ever, if it was going to be like a legal challenge against you, just

00:23:31   because you don't work for the company anymore doesn't mean that stops.

00:23:33   Yeah, no, of course.

00:23:35   I think the thinking here is like that he's, I mean, very clearly the guy just wants to

00:23:40   retire, right?

00:23:41   Right? Like, you know, he's been, as you said, 30 years at the same company.

00:23:46   He's turned 60 this year.

00:23:47   Like, he probably just wants to change what he's doing.

00:23:50   Um, and, you know, the idea of him moving away, and frankly as well, like no one

00:23:56   was going to take over Schiller's entire role.

00:23:59   Like, because Schiller does like three different things, which is a thing that

00:24:03   we see happen with Apple executives.

00:24:05   Deirdre O'Brien's the same, right?

00:24:07   where Deirdre now runs two very different parts of the company, really.

00:24:12   You've got the people and retail, they are different things.

00:24:16   And Shilla does a bunch of stuff, so Jaws will take his place in the marketing side

00:24:22   and then eventually they'll find somebody to run events in App Store.

00:24:26   But you kind of maybe want to unbundle it and wind it down.

00:24:30   And as well, this kind of feels like a transition plan, really, more than anything.

00:24:36   not the, this feels to me not the idea of like Schiller's like, "I gotta get out of

00:24:41   here," but that over the last couple of years, you know, he's been making it clear to Tim

00:24:45   that it's like, "I'm kind of good now." And they're like, "Great, well let's work out

00:24:50   how we wind this down," right? Which is different to say Angela Arendt's, who was like, "Very

00:24:56   clearly, this is done," right? Like one way or another because it came out of nowhere

00:25:01   and she was gone, right?

00:25:02   Like the next day, gone.

00:25:04   And this is more of a, like, I guess,

00:25:06   very similar to Johnny Ive, right?

00:25:08   Like, I wanna step away now.

00:25:10   And they're like, great,

00:25:11   we're gonna work out this plan, this transition.

00:25:13   And so first you're gonna give this part away,

00:25:15   and then maybe in a year you'll give this part away.

00:25:18   I completely agree that within a year,

00:25:21   Phil is gone, I would expect.

00:25:24   - I mean, that's very likely.

00:25:25   I just, as a person myself,

00:25:27   I tend to be very skeptical of these transitions whenever there's something else going on at the

00:25:33   same time. So while everything that you said makes sense, I cannot avoid considering the timing of it.

00:25:40   This is the human, and I'm not saying that you're doing this, but this is like the human

00:25:45   nature for like conspiracies, right? And I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, but it's like it's how

00:25:52   people they like it's this idea of looking for cause and effect right which

00:25:57   is something that that we do as humans all the time we look for cause and

00:26:00   effect and you see this and you're like well this thing is happening this thing

00:26:05   is happening it seems very convenient that they would be attached to each

00:26:08   other and that your brain just makes the link between these two things and that's

00:26:12   that right I'm not saying that you're creating a conspiracy theory if you want

00:26:16   to create one and talk about it here I will entertain that because I like

00:26:19   hearing wild conspiracy theories. But you know, but yeah, I get your point, right? That

00:26:25   it's like, it seems mighty convenient that the guy who's been running the App Store maybe

00:26:30   doesn't want to be around to run the App Store in a year because it's about to get really

00:26:34   difficult to run the App Store. Like, I see that logic too and can imagine that if Phil

00:26:41   wasn't thinking of it, he maybe would have started thinking of it, right? To be like,

00:26:45   I think in a year it might be really hard to run App Store at Apple because you have

00:26:49   to start implementing what the governments around the world want you to do with the App

00:26:53   Store.

00:26:54   Right?

00:26:55   Am I kind of summarizing what you're saying?

00:26:57   What I'm saying is that there's some big changes coming to how the App Store operates, and

00:27:02   by the time that happens you want to make sure that you have new people in charge.

00:27:05   That's what...

00:27:06   I don't think it's, you know, I don't think it's a big conspiracy.

00:27:09   I think it's...

00:27:10   When you look at it from the outside, and I guess some people don't expect that anything

00:27:15   is going to change to the upsource and people say that the government is crazy to have this

00:27:19   case against Apple, but I think there will be big changes happening and by the time that

00:27:24   inevitably happens, both in the US and in Europe, you want to make sure that you have

00:27:28   a new structure in place. That's all that I'm arguing and for that reason, yes, Phil

00:27:32   may want to retire, but I'm very skeptical of the timing of this. And to answer some

00:27:38   of the comments that we're getting in the chat room, I think whenever, you know, people

00:27:44   I have these discussions about executives leaving a company, first of all because they

00:27:50   are very public figures, and second because history teaches us that there's always a backstory,

00:27:58   right?

00:27:59   Especially with high profile executives leaving Apple in recent history, there's always been

00:28:04   a backstory.

00:28:05   And so the pattern teaches us that there's always more hiding beneath the surface, which

00:28:10   I think it makes for a fun, you know, exercise in analysis, makes for a fun conversation.

00:28:17   And especially now, with everything happening around the App Store, I think it would be,

00:28:23   it would be, you know, kind of short-sighted not to consider the circumstances. I mean,

00:28:29   you can ignore them, but that's not how I usually operate. You know, sometimes, you

00:28:37   know, being skeptical all the time sure is not a great way to live, but sometimes

00:28:42   you're right about it, and so that's why I consider the circumstances. And maybe

00:28:48   I'm wrong, but I mean, it's a fact, right? It's happening now, these antitrust cases,

00:28:53   so it's at the very, even though you don't believe it, it's at the very least

00:28:58   something that you should mention. I think that it would be wild to not at

00:29:03   least consider it. It's like I'm agreeing with you, like it would you should it there

00:29:07   is a cause and effect potentially at play right like you would at least talk

00:29:10   about it. Like if this was if Phil didn't run the app store we wouldn't be talking

00:29:16   about this. No exactly. Right so like yeah if I don't know I'm look who is another

00:29:23   I don't even remember then everybody's people needs like so if Dan Riccio senior vice

00:29:28   president of hardware engineering left wouldn't be going what about the app

00:29:31   store, right? Like, that wouldn't come up because it doesn't make any sense. Can I just

00:29:37   say one last thing about this maybe before we move on, which I kind of found funny? There's

00:29:42   just this one line which I just really like where Phil says, this is a quote from Phil,

00:29:47   where is it? It's about his friends and he just, he only referenced, here we go. "It's

00:29:54   been a dream come true for me to work at Apple on so many products I love of all of these

00:29:58   great friends Steve, Tim and so many more and I just kind of like that because it's

00:30:03   like who's he leaving out right because he only mentioned Steve and Tim Scott makes perfect

00:30:13   sense to mention Steve obviously so therefore you would definitely mention Tim because that

00:30:18   would be terrible right like if he just said Steve and so many more like you kind of got

00:30:22   I mentioned to him, he's your boss, but like there are many colleagues he's not mentioned.

00:30:27   Does he secretly hate Craig Federighi? Who knows? I just find that funny. Like obviously

00:30:33   you should probably stop at Steve and Tim because then you're definitely going to leave people out,

00:30:38   but it was just funny to me anyway. It's a big move for a company that has relatively

00:30:45   stable people at the top. Is it possible that he is the current longest tenured employee?

00:30:52   No, I don't think he's the longest tenured employee, but he's the longest tenured person

00:30:57   on the executive page.

00:30:59   Right.

00:31:00   So there are people that are still working at Apple for longer than 30 years?

00:31:03   Yeah, Chris Espinosa comes to mind, for one.

00:31:06   Wow.

00:31:07   He was there early on.

00:31:08   That's incredible.

00:31:09   But he, I think he is the longest running executive, and I mean, think about how long

00:31:14   he's been there.

00:31:15   He not only came to Apple when it was kind of a weird move to do so, but stayed through

00:31:21   the 90s survived the Jobs transition, right?

00:31:24   Like you would think a product,

00:31:26   like a marketing person would maybe not,

00:31:29   I don't know his title exactly when Jobs came back,

00:31:31   but he survived a lot of change.

00:31:33   And I think he's adapted really well to current Apple

00:31:38   where when Jobs was around,

00:31:42   he did a lot of the heavy lifting.

00:31:44   Phil slid into that spot really well.

00:31:47   And as they've done a lot to diversify the people they have on stage and the voices we

00:31:53   hear from Apple, he's done a good job at stepping aside and letting other people have their

00:31:57   time.

00:31:58   And I just I look at that and I look at the flexibility that he, at least from the outside,

00:32:02   has shown in his career and I find it I find it inspiring a little bit that somebody who

00:32:07   has such a long career at one place can change and adapt and be successful through several

00:32:13   different eras.

00:32:15   It doesn't surprise me that he never left.

00:32:18   Because if marketing is what you love to do, is there a better company to work for?

00:32:25   Apple's marketing is incredible.

00:32:28   It's arguably one of the reasons that they are as successful as they are in modern times.

00:32:35   Unless you wanted a specific challenge, like I want to turn a company around, if you want

00:32:41   to work on marketing, especially if you want to work on marketing and technology, like,

00:32:46   why would you, you know, why would you why would you leave, you know, so doesn't surprise

00:32:51   me. He was there for so long. And he's still there. He's not gone, not gone yet.

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00:34:38   support of the show and Relay FM. Federico, there's new IMAX. Mm-hmm. You

00:34:45   excited about this? Very exciting. Yes. I can... Much more than my stupid conspiracy

00:34:50   theories. Hey! Come on. Hey. This is very exciting. Let's move away from conspiracy

00:34:57   theories and talk about iMacs. I wasn't saying it was a conspiracy theory.

00:35:04   So what's new in the iMac? Maybe there's conspiracy theories about it. No there

00:35:08   definitely is. There definitely is. So the 21 inch iMac stays the same. The only

00:35:15   changes SSDs are now in all the default configurations. They're pretty

00:35:20   small. They start at I think 256 gigs so the Fusion Drive remains an option on

00:35:25   the 21 and a half inch iMac everything else is the same older processors older GPUs

00:35:30   They still have the 1080 display. So that base

00:35:34   1099 iMac still not 4k retina. It's just hanging out down there at the bottom as the only non retina computer Apple sells

00:35:41   Which is sad the 27 inch is where all the the news is. So just quickly move through this

00:35:48   SSD across the board up to 8 terabytes on the upper end

00:35:53   They they all come with the t2 security chip now

00:35:56   It was the last Mac not to ship with that

00:35:59   So the 21 inch does not have it because you can get the fusion drive, but the 27 does

00:36:03   Higher RAM ceilings up to 128 gigabytes of memory much better GPUs with up to double video memory

00:36:11   It got the fancy microphone system. It got 1080p webcam

00:36:15   the top end is a 10 core i9 which you can spec to which is bananas and

00:36:22   something that really surprised me I didn't see coming the nano texture option on the Pro Display XDR is

00:36:28   available on the 27 inch iMac

00:36:30   It's $500 here as opposed to the thousand it is on the Pro Display, but that's really cool

00:36:36   I'm I did not see that coming. I'd like to see the nano texture show up on more and more products

00:36:44   I think it's really cool. The nano texture thing is my favorite part of the

00:36:49   Announcement because it opens the door for future products to get that now

00:36:54   Because it was something we'd hoped and and kind of assumed that if Apple could find a way to make it a thing on other

00:37:00   Products they could you may be thinking that that sounds like an iMac Pro to me. That's not like an iMac Pro

00:37:05   And it is so it has lots of RAM. It has better GPUs. It has the 1080p webcam, which the iMac Pro had

00:37:14   To account for this Apple has dropped the 8 core Xeon from the base iMac Pro. So the base iMac Pro now comes with a 10 core

00:37:21   Xeon W processor the rest of the iMac Pro is the same

00:37:26   No new video card, even though it needs one no updated Xeon

00:37:30   No, nano texture option. So the iMac Pro is just kind of hanging out there

00:37:35   Unchanged now for coming up on three years, which is it really I really think the iMac Pro is

00:37:42   I don't think it's gonna survive the Intel to ARM transition. I think it's

00:37:46   gonna die with a Xeon and not be resurrected on the other side. What do

00:37:51   you guys, what do you think about that Myke? Do you think it's over for the

00:37:53   iMac Pro? I think it's becoming more likely that it's not gonna be needed

00:38:00   anymore. There's no point continuing to make the iMac Pro if the iMac can be as

00:38:05   powerful or more so, which could be possible after the Apple Silicon

00:38:11   transition. So I think it's at a point where it just may not be needed and also

00:38:16   we were talking about this on upgrade a little bit. The iMac Pro was conceived in

00:38:22   a very different time. The iMac Pro was conceived when there wasn't a Mac

00:38:29   Pro, there was not going to be another Mac Pro, is a better thing to say. And so

00:38:34   they continued with that computer because they had to plug the gap before

00:38:37   the new Mac Pro would be ready and so they went with it right actually I think

00:38:42   they when they showed it off they hadn't had that roundtable yet had they or had

00:38:45   they no they had hadn't they they first mentioned it in that roundtable thing

00:38:49   and then they showed it off at WWDC that's right a little later on now you

00:38:53   know I think it's it's fair to say that like if Apple would have continued with

00:38:57   the Mac Pro and continued wanting to invest in the Mac Pro they never would

00:39:02   have made the other Mac Pro they would have just continued to make the iMac

00:39:05   more powerful as they have done anyway right like the iMac Pro has not stopped

00:39:09   them from making the iMac a better computer because as you said like this

00:39:14   one is pretty much it and in some ways is better than so much so that they got

00:39:20   rid of the base model iMac Pro right like the was it the 8 core or the 6 core

00:39:26   they got rid of it because it's not competitive enough anymore and then

00:39:31   they brought the price down of the 10 core to start at 5000. So I think that they're

00:39:37   further proving that even in the current climate before Apple Silicon, the need for the iMac

00:39:43   Pro is becoming less and less. I think once we move past this, what's the point? Like

00:39:49   if you could just keep spec'ing iMacs up to be super powerful, why have a different product

00:39:54   line? You're just confusing things. I think so too. I mean the iMac Pro still has headroom

00:39:59   over the iMac, but it is a smaller gap

00:40:02   than it used to be, a gap that may not matter

00:40:04   by the time Apple Silicon rolls around.

00:40:07   I do think that this 27-inch iMac, the 5K,

00:40:10   is gonna be around for a while.

00:40:12   This is a very meaningful update,

00:40:14   and we can talk about whether it's the last update

00:40:15   or not in a second.

00:40:17   But this machine could sit on the shelf for 18 months

00:40:19   and I think be okay.

00:40:21   And that does make me think that the current,

00:40:27   like roadmap to arm is maybe notebook heavy at first and that the iMac would follow a

00:40:32   little bit later on.

00:40:33   Well, they didn't touch the 21.

00:40:37   That's true. And it may be that they replay I don't think the 21 will survive either.

00:40:41   I think it think the rumors a 24 inch 21.5 is pretty small. I don't know the last time

00:40:45   anyone sat in front of one of those but it's it's pretty small for you to something bigger

00:40:49   and maybe that one goes arm and the bigger one stays until a little bit longer. I don't

00:40:54   know if they would split the iMac that way.

00:40:56   Can I test your memory here a little bit?

00:40:58   Yes, please.

00:40:59   When they moved the MacBook Pro, the 13 inch, to the Magic Keyboard, what else did they

00:41:08   do to it?

00:41:10   I think it came with a spec bump.

00:41:13   Yeah, but I'm trying to remember what kind of specs were bumped.

00:41:19   Basically what I'm trying to posit here is that the...

00:41:23   Oh, I remember what they did.

00:41:25   They added, that one is the one that can go up to 32 gigabytes of RAM and they added a

00:41:30   bigger storage option.

00:41:32   Okay.

00:41:33   So because of new processors, it was a spec bump with a keyboard.

00:41:38   Right.

00:41:39   Because while I'm trying to draw a line here, it was to say that the 16 inch, the 15 became

00:41:45   the 16, it got a big revision.

00:41:47   The 27 to the new 27 is a big revision.

00:41:50   Yeah.

00:41:51   13-inch MacBook Pro and the 21 and a half inch iMac got some changes that were arguably

00:41:59   necessary changes for both. Like the iMac didn't get as much as the MacBook Pro. The

00:42:04   reason I'm saying all this is because maybe those models aren't going to be as long in

00:42:10   the world as the more expensive models in their lineup.

00:42:13   Sure.

00:42:14   Right? So that like we may see, I genuinely think we're going to see a consumer laptop.

00:42:20   I don't know what it is. I don't think it's going to be the Air, I'm not sure.

00:42:23   The MacBook Pro and the iMac 21 inch, they will be the first things.

00:42:28   This is not a completely original thought, I'm just putting my stake in the ground, right?

00:42:31   They will be the first three Apple Silicon Macs, so they can have cool consumer options

00:42:39   and showing the power, which will be what the MacBook Pro will do.

00:42:44   That's probably what's going to happen.

00:42:47   And that might be why the smaller iMac kind of didn't think you were going to get touched

00:42:52   at all, to be honest.

00:42:54   Maybe it's up sooner in the ARM list.

00:42:56   Which I think makes sense too, right?

00:42:58   Like if you're going to do it at desktop, well that's the desktop you'll start with.

00:43:02   You don't start with the iMac Pro if they're going to do one.

00:43:07   And to be honest...

00:43:08   The iMac and the Mac Mini.

00:43:09   Yeah, I think when we say the iMac Pro won't exist anymore, it's the idea of there being

00:43:15   an iMac which is different.

00:43:17   Like that is a different computer.

00:43:19   The internals of it are different.

00:43:21   Where it is designed separately,

00:43:24   it has a different cooling system.

00:43:26   They may have a version of the Apple Silicon iMac

00:43:29   that's painted gray.

00:43:30   And they just call it the iMac Pro

00:43:33   and it's just a higher level.

00:43:36   But the idea of there being this completely separate machine

00:43:41   which looks like an iMac but kind of isn't in the insides,

00:43:44   it's very different. I don't think that that's going to exist anymore.

00:43:48   Yeah, I think that tracks. That does bring up a point about these iMacs, is that as far

00:43:55   as we know, no one's taken one of these apart yet, but Apple didn't mention it. I think

00:44:00   they would have if it had been done. The cooling system has not been iMac Pro-ified. It doesn't

00:44:07   have the overhaul that the iMac Pro got. Now, the big one doesn't have a three and a half

00:44:13   drive in it anymore. I don't know how they're doing the SSDs but at the very

00:44:17   least it would should it should have better airflow but it does not have the

00:44:21   cooling the iMac Pro does and the that could be a little noisy on the 10 core

00:44:26   maybe we'll have to see how it goes and Jason is providing real-time follow-up

00:44:30   the cooling system is not an iMac Pro cooling system so it is the same fan

00:44:35   layout as the as the previous 5k. So I'm sure in Cinebench you know the iMac Pro

00:44:40   will still be able to be, you know, like in some benchmark it's not gonna get

00:44:44   throttled but like I just don't know how important that stuff is. So anyways, good

00:44:47   day if you're at iMac. I think if you've been holding out for an iMac this is a

00:44:51   good time to update. This is the biggest update the iMac's had in a while and

00:44:55   that brings us to the question of is this the last Intel iMac? Are we gonna

00:45:01   see another 27-inch update? I don't think we will. I think that because this

00:45:08   update is so meaningful they've done so many things that this 27 inch iMac can

00:45:14   last a while and I think it buys them enough time to get an Apple Silicon 5k

00:45:19   iMac out the door. I think that this is sort of the last hurrah for the Intel

00:45:24   iMac. I would say if I was gonna make this some kind of pick. Oh yeah. This will

00:45:29   be the last time the new badge is on the Apple Store for any Intel Mac. Really?

00:45:36   Mmm, no more Intel updates after this that doesn't mean no more updates like the Mac Pro gets updates

00:45:43   But they don't put the new badge on it. Well, then are the Mac Pro gets new components. You can put in it sure

00:45:49   Yeah, that's not a product update saying that that's definitely gonna happen

00:45:54   I'm just doing what we do with pics, but like I think that it's possible like, you know, like yes

00:45:59   You could do it. You could update the Mac mini, but I don't think they will right like

00:46:02   so I

00:46:06   I can't really, I could see a world in which

00:46:10   this is the last major update for an Intel machine,

00:46:13   like major update.

00:46:14   Like they'll continue doing stuff to the other computers,

00:46:17   but I don't think they'll be major enough.

00:46:19   We'll see.

00:46:20   - Anyways, that's iMac news.

00:46:22   Kind of a fun, it's been a very busy week for August.

00:46:26   Very, very strange.

00:46:28   Usually very quiet this time of year.

00:46:30   - Yep, because everyone's at work,

00:46:32   no one's going on vacation.

00:46:34   - It's not a time of year where tech companies

00:46:36   do a lot of releases. Yeah, because people go on vacations. Yeah. And no one's doing

00:46:40   that. So why stop? I'm going. Yeah, but you're in a country that has Zach together.

00:46:44   Well, and also on your vacation you write an iOS review the whole time so that doesn't

00:46:50   count. But like the idea of like shutting down for the summer season, which is something

00:46:55   that happens in corporations, like it just doesn't happen in this year. So, just keep

00:47:01   working. The Lord just keep working. Do you guys think they have more coming in August?

00:47:05   Yes.

00:47:06   Hmm. Is that a yes because you think or is that a yes because you've heard?

00:47:11   No, it's a yes because I think. Like, just that thing that we spoke about last week,

00:47:15   you know, which that wild set of predictions. I just think that there's, I think that Apple

00:47:23   potentially still has a lot in the pipeline this year and they may as well start getting

00:47:29   it out while they can, especially because if they have products they can sell that are

00:47:36   new, they will want to do that because of the quarterly results.

00:47:40   Because they've already said that the iPhone will be slipping.

00:47:43   So the iPhone, no iPhone will be sold in their fourth fiscal quarter.

00:47:48   New iPhone, right?

00:47:49   It's all going to go to Q1, the holiday quarter, because they're not going to come out until

00:47:53   October.

00:47:54   So I would expect that if Apple has new products to sell that they have otherwise ordered onto,

00:48:00   I would expect them to put them on sale.

00:48:02   And that would include stuff like AirPods, AirPod Studio, HomePod, that kind of stuff.

00:48:09   If they have them.

00:48:10   If you've got them, sell them.

00:48:11   Have you guys changed your mind on the iOS?

00:48:14   I'm going to talk about iOS 14 in a few minutes.

00:48:17   Have you guys changed your mind on the release date?

00:48:20   You're still thinking they're not going to change it?

00:48:22   Are they going to postpone it?

00:48:24   that they have said the thing about the iPhones?

00:48:26   I don't know man, because I still don't feel like I can put...

00:48:30   So what we're saying is that Apple said that the iPhones are coming a couple of weeks later

00:48:35   this year, which means they'll be in October. But I still can't put my finger on when would

00:48:40   they have the event. Right, yeah.

00:48:44   Because they could still have the event in the first week of September if they want to.

00:48:49   Like, I mean, it's not like it's a surprise when iPhones come out.

00:48:52   So like lots of people are not buying iPhones in late August or early September anyway,

00:48:57   because they know there'll be a new one. So if they still want to put iOS 14 out in the middle

00:49:04   of September, which they may still want to do, for I don't know what reason, but they may still want

00:49:08   to do it, then they will do that. And then they'll do the iPhone, they'll show it off, they'll say

00:49:13   they're coming in a month, and that's that. So I still feel like I'm not, I can't predict it

00:49:19   any differently even though they've given me that date?

00:49:22   Yeah, unfortunately I'm in the same position.

00:49:25   I'm sorry. Well, no, but that is... Look, it's fortunate,

00:49:29   right? You should not be thinking you have extra time

00:49:32   in case you don't.

00:49:34   No, I know, and I'm not thinking that, but, you know,

00:49:37   it would be nice... it would be nice to know, but I know it's not going to

00:49:43   happen, so I'm still approaching this as if, you know, iOS is coming out in mid

00:49:47   mid-September, as usual.

00:49:50   That's how I'm approaching this.

00:49:52   Maybe I'm a bit slower than usual this year, but it'll get done.

00:49:55   It wouldn't surprise me if they just haven't decided.

00:49:57   That could also be it, right?

00:49:58   They could be gathered, still collecting feedback from the beta testers.

00:50:04   One thing I believe is happening is they want to make sure that whatever they launch as

00:50:11   the first public version is in better shape than last year.

00:50:16   That I think is the main driving force here. Like, whatever we launch to the people who

00:50:22   don't have the public beta or the like the public version has to be in better shape than

00:50:27   last year.

00:50:28   You mean like the shipping golden master version, right?

00:50:31   Like, when my mom checks for updates.

00:50:34   What's she gonna get?

00:50:35   Like, what's she gonna get? Like, that version needs to be better than whatever they did

00:50:41   with 13. Like if you guys like just to remember for a second like what they did last year

00:50:47   with the split release that 13 then was 13.1 which was also iPadOS and that came out like

00:50:55   first they gave us a date and then that date changed. It came out like a couple of days

00:51:02   in advance like it was kind of messy and then I like I was going through these numbers for my

00:51:07   review. They had like in two months like eight software updates or something like

00:51:13   that. Like it was wild. Just the number of fixes and patches that they had to put

00:51:18   out last year. Because I remember it was crazy for you because you kept having to

00:51:23   like rearrange things in the review like if you or if you deciding if you wanted

00:51:27   to right because some parts weren't available. So here on that if I was Craig

00:51:32   Federighi right the way that I would do it is this back when months ago they

00:51:38   must have set a target date for iOS 14 based on iPhone shipping right like

00:51:43   before delays you know they would have had a date and the date would say

00:51:47   September 14th or whatever right I would still say right like let's aim for our

00:51:54   original date and we'll see where we are when we get there and if when we get to

00:52:00   our original date we feel like we want to spend more time making it more rock

00:52:06   solid let's do that up until the date that the iPhone comes out you know so

00:52:12   like they've given them you know it would be like I would be giving us a

00:52:15   window of where from the original date to the date when iPhones ship and we can

00:52:20   decide during that period of time if and when we need to continue working on

00:52:25   things that's that's the way I would do it because ultimately like they can

00:52:29   release at any point up until the new iPhone, you know? Or as I proved last year, a random

00:52:36   time after the new iPhone comes out. But I feel like they have the ability to do for

00:52:44   themselves what you're mentioning, of like, well, they had a date that they wanted to

00:52:47   ship it on, and now they might be able to actually make it even more 100% solid by spending

00:52:53   a little bit more time on it. But if it's ready, go for it. I don't know.

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00:54:13   So we knew that with iOS 14, one of the things that users would get to be able to do is to

00:54:19   set their default browser or email client to be not Safari and not Mail.

00:54:26   And all we knew is that apps would get a special, basically an entitlement to allow them to

00:54:31   do that.

00:54:32   Not every app could do it, you kind of had to apply for it.

00:54:35   As of this past week, Apple has actually released some of the basic rules that an app would

00:54:43   need to follow to be able to be either a new default browser or email client.

00:54:48   So I wanted to read some of these kind of rules in basic.

00:54:51   Obviously, things get a lot more complicated, but just kind of like high level, these are

00:54:55   the things that you'd need to do, and then we can talk about it.

00:54:57   And I know Federico, you've been looking into and thinking about this a bit over the past

00:55:01   week.

00:55:02   So these are the rules for browsers.

00:55:04   Your app must specify the HTTP or HTTPS schemes in its info.plist file, and it cannot redirect

00:55:11   a URL to an unexpected location.

00:55:14   So your application can't be taking a URL that someone puts into it and sending some

00:55:18   people to somewhere else, which is great.

00:55:20   Your app can't use UI WebView.

00:55:22   This is deprecated years ago and they need to use the Safari engine, which, you know,

00:55:27   like the Chrome app uses the Safari engine, for example.

00:55:31   And on launch, the app must provide a text field for entering a URL, search tools for

00:55:37   finding relevant links on the internet, or curated lists of bookmarks, basic browser

00:55:42   tasks.

00:55:43   The rules for email apps, they need to specify the mail to scheme and its info.plist files

00:55:49   so therefore when someone hits that mail to link it will open your application.

00:55:54   Be able to send a message to any valid email recipient and be able to receive a message

00:56:01   from any email sender.

00:56:03   Apps that provide user controlled incoming mail screening features are permitted.

00:56:07   These are the rules.

00:56:09   To be granted with the entitlement to become a default browser or email application, you

00:56:13   have to send an email to a specific email address at Apple, which are listed in the

00:56:18   documentation, which feels like a pretty shady approval process.

00:56:25   I had somebody posit this theory to me of like, you've got to assume that they will

00:56:30   say, "Oh, okay, if you're an email app, you now have to do these other five things that

00:56:34   we haven't told you.

00:56:35   You need to support Split View.

00:56:38   need to support dark mode right like who knows like that's how we'll approve you

00:56:42   well I don't know I'm just this is just like conspiracies but it is is kind of

00:56:49   peculiar that you have to send an email to a random email address is it the

00:56:53   trailers at Mac calm again it's not but you know what you know what I bet I bet

00:56:58   Google haven't had to send that email is it is it the same process for carplay

00:57:04   that you need to request approval.

00:57:07   - I know you need to request it,

00:57:08   but I don't know how you do it, but it is a similar thing.

00:57:11   You request to be a CarPlay application,

00:57:13   and then you get given this entitlement.

00:57:15   Let me see if I can find that out

00:57:17   while you do talk about it a little more.

00:57:19   - Also like on the topic of like Apple saying to you,

00:57:23   well, we would approve you

00:57:24   if all you also supported these features.

00:57:26   I think that's an important point actually,

00:57:29   because if you disable the defaults and especially mail,

00:57:33   I wonder what's gonna happen to Siri integration, because right now if you ask Siri to send an email

00:57:40   Obviously does so with mail, but if you change your default email client, what's gonna happen there?

00:57:47   I guess that the correct behavior would be if you set your default to be

00:57:53   Gmail or Outlook and if those apps have native Siri integration

00:57:58   you will be able to just have the same functionality. So Gmail or Outlook or

00:58:04   Spark, they use the SiriKit integration domain for email messages, and they let you send an email message via voice.

00:58:12   Now,

00:58:14   Gmail does not integrate with SiriKit, I believe, and we all know how, let's just say,

00:58:20   and Google can be in terms of adopting new iOS features. Now, I do believe that a

00:58:26   scenario in which I could see Google actually saying, "Oh, well, now we support SplitView, drag and drop, and slide over, and Siri."

00:58:34   If

00:58:37   would be if Apple were to come in and say, "Well, we really want a preview. However, we feel like to guarantee the best user experience

00:58:44   for being set as default, you also need to support Siri." So,

00:58:49   So, I don't know, I think there's actually something there in terms of... because if

00:58:55   you change the default, then people expect to have the same features and the same experience,

00:59:01   and part of that experience is also Siri for sending emails and checking your email from

00:59:07   Siri.

00:59:08   So, I think there's something to the idea of Apple making requests in exchange, you

00:59:14   know, in return to those companies applying for this entitlement. I don't think it's totally

00:59:21   out of the question. And I think it would actually also make sense, right? You want

00:59:25   to be set as default, just like a minimum threshold of functionality that people expect.

00:59:30   Now obviously this is not written in the rules, so maybe Apple doesn't actually care about

00:59:36   this, and maybe even if you disable, like even if you change the default, but if you

00:59:41   ask Siri to send an email, maybe it'll just default to mail. So Apple maybe doesn't care

00:59:46   about this, but I think they should. I think it would be the right approach, technically

00:59:50   speaking.

00:59:51   I feel like if you ask Siri to send an email, it should do it with your default email app.

00:59:56   I also think so, yes. With the default that you set, right?

01:00:02   Yeah.

01:00:03   Yeah. Just like when you tap on a mailto link, it takes you to your default. If you ask Siri

01:00:09   send an email, you should take it to your default.

01:00:12   Well but that might be like a backdoor way to get them.

01:00:15   But this is not in the guidelines.

01:00:17   That's a good point, that's a good point.

01:00:19   But I do feel like there may be things in the guidelines, things they will want you

01:00:24   to do that are not in the guidelines.

01:00:25   Stephen found by the way…

01:00:27   That are only explained on the phone.

01:00:29   For CarPlay, yeah, not via email anymore.

01:00:35   For CarPlay it's actually like just a form that you fill in, in the Apple developer account.

01:00:39   So it is kind of different in a kind of peculiar way, I think.

01:00:44   An email address does seem strange?

01:00:47   Yeah, it seems like they didn't get the form built in time.

01:00:51   That CarPlay form says this, "If you think your app has the potential to be supported

01:00:55   by CarPlay, tell us about it.

01:00:58   Before submitting, review the CarPlay app guidelines in the CarPlay App Programming

01:01:01   Guide," and there's a link to that.

01:01:03   And you can pick your app type, audio, automaker, communication, EV charging, navigation, parking,

01:01:09   quick food ordering. Some of those are the new types that we got in iOS 14. And then

01:01:13   you tell them about your product and then I assume that you hear back and they say yes

01:01:18   or no. They're very picky about what goes into CarPlay for good reason. I don't want

01:01:24   games on CarPlay. I don't want the stupid stuff Tesla does. I just want the things that

01:01:28   are really useful and helpful.

01:01:30   Maybe they're just assuming they won't get that many requests for the browser and email.

01:01:35   really it probably isn't going to be more than a few hundred for each I would

01:01:41   assume where CarPlay would be much more right I would expect like applications

01:01:46   that want to be in CarPlay whether they should be there or not but like

01:01:50   especially because there's so many types of applications that that could in

01:01:54   theory be a CarPlay app. Can we talk about a specific line from these

01:01:59   guidelines regarding email clients? I would love to. Be able, so they say email

01:02:05   apps should be able to receive a message from any email sender. That's okay. Apps that provide

01:02:11   user-controlled incoming mail screening features are permitted.

01:02:19   What's the point? What's the point of this line?

01:02:21   It's "hey". It's giving the nod to "hey".

01:02:23   It's for "hey".

01:02:24   Yeah, but what's the point of putting it in there if there's no problem?

01:02:26   It's like "okay".

01:02:30   You don't need to say this if you're only saying it because of "hey".

01:02:34   Because now you made me think, "Wait, was this a potential problem? Why do you need

01:02:40   to clarify that this is okay?"

01:02:42   It's so strange, right? Like, if you just had the first part of that sentence, people

01:02:46   aren't going to go, "What about, hey..." Like, be able to receive a message from any

01:02:51   email sender. "Yeah, sure, every email app should be able to do that." Like, that second

01:02:55   part of that sentence is unnecessary.

01:02:58   Yeah, maybe they're just covering their bases, right? Because if you say, "Receive a message

01:03:02   from an email sender and then somebody could maybe potentially stir up another controversy

01:03:07   and say "Oh, but what if you have a screening service? Does it mean that Apple is going

01:03:11   against Hey?" I don't know. Maybe that's stretching it though.

01:03:15   I just don't know why they felt the need to put that in there. It's so strange.

01:03:18   It's very odd.

01:03:19   It's so weird.

01:03:20   Also, because isn't it like literally called the screener or something?

01:03:25   Yes.

01:03:26   Yeah. So it really does stand out in there in those guidelines because everything else

01:03:31   pretty generic right of course a browser are there more than one is there more

01:03:35   than one app that does this I mean depending on how you read it like any

01:03:41   like the smart inbox yeah that sort of stuff could fall into this maybe but

01:03:45   they don't screen email like smart inboxes just resort them yeah it doesn't

01:03:50   screen email hmm something like same box kind of does yeah but same box isn't an

01:03:56   app. Yeah. Mail, screen, features. It's for hay. It's just like, it's just they don't... This is for hay. Maybe Google inbox? But that doesn't exist anymore. Does

01:04:05   Gmail do it? Gmail has like the sorting into various inboxes based on

01:04:10   promotional... It's not screening is it? But it's also not user controlled. This is just for hay. Yeah. Look, it's JAWS's first day. No, this isn't JAWS. This is still...

01:04:24   Let me finish my joke, Dad!

01:04:26   Oh, I'm sorry, sorry, sorry. You can edit me out if you want to.

01:04:30   So it's Jaws' first day as the Senior Vice President of Worldwide Marketing, right? Schiller

01:04:35   still lives at the App Store, but look, Schiller is floating in the pool on top of Apple Park

01:04:42   wearing a robe or probably nothing at all. So Jaws is really in charge of the App Store,

01:04:47   right? Schiller's out there just hanging out, and he saw what happened with hay. He saw

01:04:52   that the hay dust up forced Schiller into early retirement and he's like you

01:04:57   know what I'm gonna be really clear about this. I really love this app. I really want to approve you.

01:05:03   Can't wait to do it. Well I mean yes this is basically a hay feature

01:05:10   right here. Hey everything else pretty ordinary I think you cannot use UI

01:05:15   WebView of course it was deprecated a couple of years ago. You cannot redirect

01:05:21   people. Like, this is the reason there because, well, what if I'm now, what if I'm shipping

01:05:27   a custom browser and I take whatever you tap, but I take it to my website instead? Obviously

01:05:32   that is not allowed. You gotta take users to the URL that they tapped. And I think it's

01:05:38   interesting the, again for browsers, how they said you gotta have an address bar. So obviously

01:05:45   users should be able to tap into a text field and enter any URL. So from the sound of this,

01:05:52   it seems like any single domain or website specific web viewers are not considered browsers.

01:06:02   So you should always allow the users to tap into the address bar and change the URL. And

01:06:07   then they let you choose either you have to offer search or lists of bookmarks. So it

01:06:15   doesn't feel like search is mandatory, however you gotta choose between search or bookmarks.

01:06:20   So the user needs to be able to either enter URL or have a way to navigate out of the current

01:06:28   page in some, either via search or via bookmark, which I think is pretty okay.

01:06:33   I'm not actually completely sure about this, because the way this is written, it makes

01:06:37   it sound like any or all of the... it says "on launch the app must provide a text field

01:06:42   for entering URL, search tools for finding relevant links on the internet, or curated

01:06:48   list of bookmarks."

01:06:49   So is it saying that you don't have to have a text field for a URL? You could just have

01:06:56   a curated list of bookmarks and that would be okay? See what I mean? Like it's not completely...

01:07:01   Because if you have the info.plist information...

01:07:07   Yeah, it's one of these three.

01:07:09   It's one of these three.

01:07:11   Interesting.

01:07:12   Because they don't need you to type in a URL for you to be able to work as the default browser,

01:07:20   because the default browser just needs to be able to open a URL that it's given.

01:07:24   I mean, also, who's going to make a browser without an address bar?

01:07:27   Right?

01:07:28   I don't know.

01:07:29   I mean, that's...

01:07:30   So, yes, you're right, it's one of these three.

01:07:34   So you can open a link in a custom browser,

01:07:36   but then you must have a way to navigate

01:07:39   out of the current page.

01:07:41   And that can either be an address bar,

01:07:43   a search bar, or bookmarks.

01:07:45   Which, okay, that makes sense.

01:07:47   But they really wanna, I think from the sound of this,

01:07:50   it seems like they really don't want the user

01:07:52   to be in a situation where they install something,

01:07:54   they make it their custom browser,

01:07:56   and the custom browser only takes them to a single domain.

01:07:59   You know, there's potentially folks with pretty shady intentions who may be planning that.

01:08:08   So no Mac Stories browser?

01:08:10   No Mac Stories browser is what I'm saying, yes.

01:08:13   No 512 pixel browser either.

01:08:17   I'm gonna make a browser.

01:08:18   123 browser.

01:08:19   It only takes you to your Twitter account.

01:08:22   It only takes you to the URL that you tap.

01:08:26   there's a curated list of bookmarks which is just like no website that is of

01:08:33   any use to you so like you can't search browse the web anymore it's like a

01:08:37   focused experience you know. #minimal. Yeah yeah so like you can't get to

01:08:44   anywhere else on the web of use anymore that's my that's my my that's cool my

01:08:49   elevator pitch. Aside from Myke I think you know Google, Microsoft, Mozilla,

01:08:56   all these folks will apply.

01:08:58   Maybe they will not even apply.

01:08:59   Apple is working with them, I bet.

01:09:01   - Which they should be.

01:09:03   - They should be because obviously this is like,

01:09:05   this is an actual feature that people want.

01:09:07   Like when I was talking to my friends recently,

01:09:10   it's like, so, you know, the usual question,

01:09:12   so what's new in the next update?

01:09:15   And I mean, widgets is a pretty easy sell.

01:09:18   People see it and like, oh, that's cool.

01:09:21   How can I do that?

01:09:22   And also like when you say,

01:09:24   "Oh, you can now change the default app for links."

01:09:28   It's like, "Oh yeah, I wanna use Google Chrome."

01:09:30   It's a thing that people understand immediately.

01:09:33   - I've actually come to the thinking of

01:09:35   changing the default email app is mostly a pointless affair.

01:09:40   - It's more, I think people are more excited

01:09:42   about the browser.

01:09:43   - The browser makes sense.

01:09:44   The email app, like what?

01:09:45   When I tap, I will get a different--

01:09:48   - Are you tapping all these Mailto links?

01:09:51   Exactly! Who's tapping mail to links that often?

01:09:54   I guess when you're like, I don't know, browsing like the hotel website.

01:09:59   Even as a user, I am not a user of the mail app, right? Like, it's not like I struggle.

01:10:06   I guess the only thing is like, so I no longer need to sign into the mail app with my email accounts?

01:10:12   But like, that's it! Like, the browser makes sense, Messenger apps make sense, music apps make more sense, right?

01:10:20   Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

01:10:22   It kind of like...

01:10:24   And those two are still apps that write music and messages.

01:10:28   Yep.

01:10:30   They're starting with email and browsers and maps, of course.

01:10:33   I don't think you can change the... Yeah, you cannot change the default for maps.

01:10:36   Yeah, I would much prefer maps to email.

01:10:40   Although, I gotta say, not completely happy with Google Maps in the past year.

01:10:45   What's wrong with Google Maps?

01:10:49   It's just Google Maps has been making some questionable decisions for me for turn by

01:10:55   turn directions.

01:10:57   With this insistence on like taking the road less traveled to save like a couple minutes.

01:11:05   That's Waze.

01:11:06   Yes, it's basically the Waze approach.

01:11:09   Don't they have settings for that kind of stuff though?

01:11:12   No, I cannot find them in Google Maps.

01:11:14   So many times, Silvia and I have found ourselves in like these country roads in the middle

01:11:19   of nowhere because Google Maps thought that we were going to save five minutes. And I'm

01:11:23   like, please let me be on the road where other human beings are driving. I don't want to

01:11:28   be stuck in the middle of nowhere where I turn my head and I can see like goats in a

01:11:32   field. Like this is not my ideal driving experience. I want to be on an actual road and not in

01:11:38   the middle of nowhere. And it happened a few times over the past year. And it didn't used

01:11:46   to be this way, Google Maps. Like, we actually didn't notice like a change. Like, suddenly

01:11:54   the default became, oh, let me offer you these unknown roads so that you can save five minutes.

01:12:02   And I'm like, please just let me be stuck in traffic and I'm going to get there, but

01:12:06   least I will be surrounded by other people. Yeah it is definitely that's a Waze thing,

01:12:12   like that's Waze's whole thing right of like using user data to tell you where people are and then

01:12:20   you can route people via places where they're not but that should be a like a choice. It makes me

01:12:28   feel very anxious honestly like to end up in the middle of nowhere. Because you're a little bit

01:12:33   like where are you gonna send me? Like where am I gonna go now?

01:12:37   Yeah exactly, it's like, yeah so I've been anticipating the rollout of the improved Apple

01:12:43   Maps here but I have a bad feeling about it, I think it's gonna be another couple of years

01:12:49   before we get them in Italy. Did they announce more places that they're

01:12:55   taken to? I don't remember the Apple Maps stuff. Some cities in Japan got it yesterday.

01:13:00   Oh that's nice, what about London? Did that ever happen?

01:13:03   I have an idea. I don't think it was...

01:13:07   Oh, wait. Was it mentioned somewhere that maybe the UK and Ireland...

01:13:11   Huh. No, maybe I'm making this up. I don't know. I gotta look into it.

01:13:17   A look around got put in Japan yesterday.

01:13:22   For someone who's not checking their RSS, you're definitely up on the Apple Maps news.

01:13:27   They did say revamped Apple Maps expanding to UK, Ireland and Canada later this year.

01:13:35   So maybe in a few months, Myke, you will get the new Maps stuff.

01:13:37   Because I only use Google Maps because I find it more reliable.

01:13:42   If Apple have created a reliable system, I will use that instead.

01:13:45   Yeah, they're saying later this year. So there's a good chance you'll have them by the end of the year.

01:13:51   Well, I'll look forward to trying that.

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01:15:23   Beta 4, iOS 14 Beta 4 came out. There's been some changes. I'll run through a couple I think

01:15:30   Federico you might have some more to add. They've added more widgets. There's an Apple TV widget now,

01:15:37   which was, I believe, I think I saw you say,

01:15:39   like the last widget that they showed off that didn't exist.

01:15:42   Yeah, yeah, they showed it off at WWDC,

01:15:45   and it wasn't there in the first few betas.

01:15:47   Right, but now we have it.

01:15:49   We can now get widgets from third-party apps.

01:15:52   It's been a bit of a tease over the last beta cycle,

01:15:55   because it was like, you can submit them,

01:15:58   but they won't work on devices.

01:16:00   Yeah, there was like an issue in the beta 3 of Xcode.

01:16:04   12 is version 12 now.

01:16:06   that prevented them from working in TestFlight.

01:16:10   But now they are working.

01:16:13   So that's nice because now we can finally try them.

01:16:16   - Yeah, I've used a couple.

01:16:17   One that was interesting to me is the drafts widget.

01:16:22   And I've only been noodling around with drafts recently.

01:16:25   I don't really have big thoughts on it.

01:16:29   But the thing that I found was interesting

01:16:31   was that one of the widget options

01:16:33   allows you to kind of set up a bunch of like squares,

01:16:37   like buttons you can tap on to take you to things

01:16:39   in the application, right?

01:16:40   So you can like, to a specific note, to a specific area,

01:16:44   to a search or whatever.

01:16:46   And what I found is like, it is incredibly fast

01:16:49   from tapping those buttons to getting to that area

01:16:52   of the application in a way that I think could be kind

01:16:55   of actually pretty cool because you're not like opening

01:16:58   the app, tapping, tapping, tapping.

01:17:00   Like I feel it feels very quick.

01:17:02   Plus the animation of opening an application from a widget also feels that way as well,

01:17:07   right?

01:17:08   It feels like the app just comes out of the widget.

01:17:10   So I don't know, I feel like there could be something kind of fun where some of these

01:17:13   utility applications, like I'm thinking to-do apps or whatever, if you could say something

01:17:18   like OmniFocus with your perspectives or whatever, set a little Max Stories perspective icon,

01:17:23   as they are, as the wonderful icons that they are, to open different perspectives or whatever

01:17:28   and OmniFocus would feel really fast.

01:17:31   And so that could be one of the nice things about these widgets, is it makes getting in

01:17:35   and out of applications feel quick, as well as providing information about them where

01:17:40   necessary.

01:17:41   Yeah, and I think judging from what we've seen so far, I think it's pretty clear that

01:17:45   given the limitations of WidgetKit this year, we're going to end up with two kinds of widgets,

01:17:50   like two sort of macro categories of widgets.

01:17:54   Widgets that let you glance at different types of data visualizations, so anything that can

01:18:00   be visualized from an app, from your step counter to the number of tasks you're supposed

01:18:08   to work on.

01:18:09   Like any kind of visualization, there's going to be one kind.

01:18:13   And the other kind I think is these kinds of launchers.

01:18:18   Launchers are back, baby.

01:18:19   Widgets, the latch, because that's all they can do, right?

01:18:22   Especially in the medium and the large configurations where you can have multiple touch targets.

01:18:28   We're going to have these grids or lists with buttons that take you into different places

01:18:34   of an app, because they cannot do anything in line, they always need to launch something.

01:18:39   So I was using the Dark Noise widget for example, and you can configure the widget to choose

01:18:45   the sounds that you want to play, and when you tap one, it opens Dark Noise and plays

01:18:50   that sound.

01:18:51   And you mentioned drafts, it's one of them, and I've been testing a bunch of other widgets

01:18:57   that I have a similar idea of. You configure the widget, you choose the areas of the app

01:19:03   that you want to open, and then you have a widget. And on the other side is the more

01:19:09   traditional glanceable widget. There's one that I'm using called Emoji Countdown. That

01:19:14   is a super basic countdown app that lets you associate an emoji with an upcoming event

01:19:20   in your life, like a birthday or a trip to someplace.

01:19:24   And then in the widget, you see a counter

01:19:28   for how many days are left and the emoji.

01:19:30   And that's all that it is.

01:19:31   It's nothing more than that.

01:19:33   Or for example, Shaheeb, I don't remember his last name,

01:19:37   is working on the new Twitter client, Aviary.

01:19:40   You may think, oh, a new Twitter client in 2020?

01:19:42   That's crazy.

01:19:43   And it is kind of wild that he's working on it,

01:19:46   but I believe Shaheeb's planning to integrate

01:19:49   with the new Twitter API. And Aviary is actually really, really interesting as a new Twitter

01:19:56   client because it's like a modern Twitter app that uses modern iOS and iPadOS APIs.

01:20:02   So multiple columns, drag and drop, shortcuts and serial integration, all that kind of stuff.

01:20:06   Anyway, it's working on this widget that lets you glance, lets you see the latest tweets

01:20:11   from your timeline. So I don't think it's possible to configure the widget right now,

01:20:16   And maybe, Shahid, if you're listening, consider this a feature request.

01:20:20   Maybe it would be nice to configure the widgets so that you can see the latest tweets from

01:20:23   a particular list, or maybe matching a particular search.

01:20:27   So I think it's clear that we're going to end up with these two primary types of widgets.

01:20:35   Either you launch something, so it's like a launcher, and as Myke said, launchers are

01:20:40   back.

01:20:41   They used to be a thing years ago, and now they're coming back in full fashion.

01:20:45   Bigger and better than ever.

01:20:47   Bigger and better than ever, look at that.

01:20:48   You can actually have a launcher that occupies the space of 16 icons.

01:20:52   The biggest and bestest one is shortcuts, but you can't compete with that one.

01:20:57   Oh my god.

01:20:58   The shortcuts widget.

01:21:00   Now the shortcuts widget has a smaller version.

01:21:03   So there's a small widget.

01:21:05   However it's not working for me.

01:21:07   No, not working for me.

01:21:08   The new small widgeting shortcut, it lets you pick a single shortcut that you want to

01:21:12   run from the small widget size, which in theory, great idea. However, when I tap the Choose button

01:21:19   to pick the shortcut, it keeps loading and loading and loading forever. I guess I probably have too

01:21:25   many. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I'm glad that legacy widgets are sticking around for now,

01:21:32   because given that these are the two types of widgets we're gonna have, I still wanna keep

01:21:38   using something like Timery, something like Peacock for example, because that functionality

01:21:43   will not be possible this year, and so I'm glad that even in Legacy mode, and even though

01:21:48   they will not, they will be stuck in the today view, I'm still gonna use them.

01:21:54   I've just replaced all of my time tracking stuff with shortcuts now.

01:21:59   But it's not, like the Timery widget is so good, you swipe to the side and you can see

01:22:03   the timer, like in real time.

01:22:06   That's so good.

01:22:07   - I know.

01:22:09   I am finding that I'm leaving more timers on than I used to.

01:22:13   - Well, you'll figure why.

01:22:15   - Like, oh, it's been going for like 26 hours.

01:22:20   - Yeah, well.

01:22:21   - Very productive over there.

01:22:22   - You know me.

01:22:23   - Yeah, that's the downside.

01:22:24   Although some widgets are really beautiful,

01:22:27   so it kind of compensates, you know?

01:22:29   - I think so.

01:22:30   Yeah, the designs that I'm seeing of apps that I'm using

01:22:33   or seeing people share, it's like they look so good.

01:22:37   And so it's kind of, this is kind of what I had hoped

01:22:39   would be the case when they showed it off that like,

01:22:41   yes, we'll be taking a step back in some areas,

01:22:44   but step forward in others and maybe at the end of it,

01:22:46   we'll just be happy with where they are.

01:22:48   Universal search has been improved in the sense

01:22:51   that they fixed a kind of weird bug, right Federico?

01:22:54   - You may think it was a bug

01:22:56   or it was an intentional decision that they walked back.

01:22:59   - I will consider it a bug because it was put up

01:23:01   in a very bad decision to make.

01:23:03   Well, okay, so the bug was, I tweeted about this last week, the issue was that when you

01:23:08   were searching for things in the new, they call it compact search in iOS 14, in the first

01:23:15   page of search results, you would only see top matches for things like app names, so

01:23:23   you could still use it to launch apps, but anything else that was like content or suggestions

01:23:29   from like Siri intelligence, like the trivia questions for example, everything else was

01:23:36   tucked away in a secondary page.

01:23:39   And I say that I'm not sure it was a bug, because it looked pretty intentional to me

01:23:43   in that there was a button that you needed to press to navigate into a secondary page.

01:23:49   It was like a whole interaction that they had built in there.

01:23:53   And now that interaction is completely gone from Beta 4.

01:23:57   So I'm not sure it was a bug when it was like an actual thing that was new and you could

01:24:03   use it, and now it's gone.

01:24:05   In any case, it's great that search has been fixed, because now when you search for something,

01:24:12   anything, there's a single page of results.

01:24:15   And sure enough, the new thing in 14 is that at the top of the search results list, whenever

01:24:21   you're searching for something that is not the name of a specific app on your device,

01:24:26   get web search suggestions, so like things to open in Google search or whatever your

01:24:31   search engine is, which is nice because sometimes you do want to be able to quickly launch a

01:24:36   web search. However, now results from other things are back in the first page, so whether

01:24:42   you want to open a song or play a song in music or a document in files or any content

01:24:48   that's been indexed by search for your application in iOS now is displayed on the first page.

01:24:55   And what is different, I guess, is that search is faster than 13, which it is true, and I

01:25:00   like it.

01:25:01   I can launch apps faster than before.

01:25:05   Web search suggestions, I think, are useful.

01:25:07   It's nice to be able to quickly just swipe down on the home screen, type something, and

01:25:11   then open a Google search.

01:25:12   I think that's cool.

01:25:13   And search results have been reorganized so that iOS 14 will try to provide you with what

01:25:22   it thinks is a set of top hits for you,

01:25:27   but if you disagree with that and you wanna see more,

01:25:30   in iOS 14 Beta 4, there's a new Show More Results button

01:25:35   that when you press it,

01:25:35   it doesn't take you into a second page,

01:25:38   it just expands in line the list of results.

01:25:42   So whether it was a bug or it was intentional,

01:25:44   I'm leaning toward the fact that it was intentional

01:25:47   given the functional ID that was in there,

01:25:50   But whatever the case, now it's back to sort of a hybrid of what it used to be and some additions in 14.

01:25:59   And now I really, really like it myself.

01:26:03   Like, now it strikes a really good balance of web searches, launching apps is faster, some results are more compact, but also all my stuff is in there anyway.

01:26:13   So now thumbs up.

01:26:15   Yeah, it's much better now.

01:26:16   And also new in beta 4, the exposure notification API, so the Apple and Google system for contact tracing and exposure notifications for COVID-19 is back in...

01:26:32   Well, it wasn't...

01:26:34   It wasn't in 14.

01:26:35   It wasn't in any previous beta, but now it's in beta 4.

01:26:39   And let me tell you how terrifying it is to get these notifications.

01:26:43   last night I was just chilling and watching Netflix.

01:26:46   At some point my phone lights up.

01:26:49   No, don't worry, I haven't been exposed.

01:26:51   That's what I'm getting at.

01:26:53   My phone lights up and it's like,

01:26:54   exposure notification, like, oh God, what happened?

01:26:57   And I look at it and the phone is like,

01:27:00   you were not exposed to any, it's like, come on.

01:27:04   - Why is it telling you?

01:27:05   - You sent me a notification to telling me

01:27:07   that I was not exposed.

01:27:08   - I don't understand.

01:27:09   - My heart skipped a beat there.

01:27:10   - What notified you?

01:27:12   The app?

01:27:13   The system, the system, it had the system logo of the Exposure Notification API.

01:27:19   Did I take a screenshot? Hold on.

01:27:21   It notified me to tell me that I was OK.

01:27:24   And like, I felt like my heart sank for like five seconds there.

01:27:30   Did I take a screenshot?

01:27:33   Yes, I did.

01:27:35   Weekly. OK, the title, COVID-19 Exposure Logging.

01:27:39   And this is the icon of the system.

01:27:43   "Weekly update!" And I'm like, "God!" Imagine me reading this notification, like, "Oh God,

01:27:48   your device did not identify any potential exposures this week."

01:27:53   Why is it doing that?

01:27:54   Why are you sending me these notifications?

01:27:56   Don't tell me nothing, right? Like, tell me nothing until I need to know. That's wild.

01:28:04   Yeah.

01:28:04   I hate that.

01:28:05   It was terrifying, and I'm sending you the screenshot now. It was absolutely terrifying

01:28:10   to see this logo and this notification pop up on my phone to tell me that I was okay.

01:28:15   Anyway, it's cool that we can now use our government issued app again in iOS 14.

01:28:22   What happened to the second phase?

01:28:24   What do you mean?

01:28:26   So they announced when they announced this that a second phase would be coming in the

01:28:30   coming months, which was that it was going to be in the operating system instead of needing

01:28:37   applications.

01:28:38   I wonder what happened.

01:28:39   So I'll read from the FAQ.

01:28:42   After the operating system update is installed

01:28:44   and the user has opted in, the system

01:28:45   will send out a list of Bluetooth beacons

01:28:47   as in the first phase, but without requiring

01:28:50   an app to be installed.

01:28:51   If a match is detected, the user will be notified.

01:28:54   And if the user is not already downloaded

01:28:56   in an official public health authority app,

01:28:58   they will be prompted to download an official app

01:29:00   and advised on next steps.

01:29:02   So this is the idea that-- so currently, you

01:29:05   need to download an application to be able to--

01:29:08   for the beacons to start looking for each other.

01:29:12   But then there was going to be this second part

01:29:14   where the operating system would just do it.

01:29:17   Now, my thought was that's going to be in iOS 14,

01:29:21   but they haven't mentioned that yet.

01:29:23   -I forgot there was supposed to be a phase two.

01:29:25   -Which is a better thing, which is, like,

01:29:27   that the operating system is just constantly doing it,

01:29:30   and then you download an application

01:29:33   if and when a match is detected.

01:29:35   -Yeah. -So here's my question to you.

01:29:38   That notification that you got, had you ever gotten that before?

01:29:42   No.

01:29:43   So maybe that is phase two.

01:29:45   Maybe.

01:29:46   Because...

01:29:46   Did I just like center this cover a major new feature?

01:29:49   Maybe.

01:29:50   And talked about it unconnected?

01:29:51   Maybe, because that's the system doing it.

01:29:54   Well, I mean, so I'm on the newest iOS 14 beta.

01:29:56   Tennessee, like many states here in the US, is deciding not to do it.

01:30:01   9 to 5, Zach over there has been keeping up with this.

01:30:04   And if I go into the settings section, I saw it, yeah, exposure notifications.

01:30:11   And it says exposure notifications are off. If you turn them on, your public health authority

01:30:17   can notify you of possible exposure to COVID-19. You can turn this on by downloading their app in

01:30:23   the App Store. So at least in the current beta, it is not a system feature. I agree that because

01:30:29   I get a similar thing, right? Like I, they're off and then it tells me if I turn them on.

01:30:33   But Federico already has them on. I don't know, I don't know.

01:30:38   Yeah, it's interesting, I don't know, we gotta listen to it.

01:30:40   I still am waiting to see what they do with that. Like, when Apple and Google announced it,

01:30:46   I think they thought it was going to be met more positively than it ended up being met, right?

01:30:51   And I wonder if they've changed their tack on it all.

01:30:55   Well, you gotta account for the sad truth of a large portion of the public, both in the US

01:31:04   and in Italy and elsewhere. You know, having this new skepticism is a mild way to put it,

01:31:10   around COVID-19 and really like our official app, last time I checked, you know,

01:31:16   Italy has 60 million people, it was downloaded less than 2 million times. So, you know,

01:31:24   Unfortunately. And that's why it needs to be in the operating system, right?

01:31:28   Exactly. But then people need to still accept it.

01:31:32   Yeah, it's kind of sad, really, that... Anyway, let's talk about something else. We mentioned

01:31:38   the new small widget for shortcuts. Eventually I hope to get it working on my device. Now,

01:31:44   this next one, I was told that actually was available starting in beta 1, but we never

01:31:49   mentioned it and I missed that it was available. There's a new accessibility setting for pointer

01:31:55   control in iPadOS 14 where you can now enable, this is under Settings, Accessibility, Pointer

01:32:03   Control, Double Tap to Drag. So now you can choose to enable this option and you can just

01:32:10   double tap, then start dragging anything on screen. This applies to files, text, icons

01:32:17   on the home screen, instead of having to long press and hold, then drag away, you can just

01:32:23   quickly double tap and without letting go, after you just tap twice, you can just start

01:32:28   moving your finger and you will drag. I like it. It's a nice option to have. You can choose

01:32:33   to have Drag Lock enabled or not. I think I really like this as an option and I think

01:32:39   I'm going to try and use it for a while, because it does feel a lot faster than long pressing

01:32:45   and holding to drag away.

01:32:47   I think this is the same on the Mac.

01:32:50   This is a setting on the Mac.

01:32:52   On the Mac you can also three-finger drag, which I know that a lot of people have been

01:32:57   telling me in my mentions, like, can you also enable three-finger drag?

01:33:01   Unfortunately that's not possible now.

01:33:04   And I want to say maybe because, like, three fingers are supported on iPadOS on the Magic

01:33:10   keyboard for swipe gestures.

01:33:12   I don't know how Apple feels about a continuous drag gesture with three fingers, given that

01:33:18   the trackpad is kind of small.

01:33:20   And also, I mean, it would conflict with the system gesture for switching between apps,

01:33:25   right?

01:33:26   The three fingers horizontal swipe, I think.

01:33:29   So yeah, that's not possible now.

01:33:31   But you can enable double-tap to drag, which I think is kind of cool.

01:33:34   Which I guess is maybe more useful.

01:33:37   It doesn't conflict with anything on iOS.

01:33:39   at least on the Mac, the double tap will conflict with double tapping.

01:33:43   But there is no double tapping on iOS, so.

01:33:46   Yeah.

01:33:47   Right?

01:33:48   So that's actually pretty cool.

01:33:49   I'm trying to think, is there any double tapping on iOS?

01:33:51   I can't think of it.

01:33:52   No.

01:33:53   I don't think so.

01:33:54   Yeah.

01:33:55   This is so far, I will say, it's been the buggiest version for me on my iPhone.

01:33:59   Oh, oh no.

01:34:01   I'm just having a terrible time, guys.

01:34:03   So this morning, my alarms didn't go off to wake up.

01:34:07   Oh no.

01:34:08   that just didn't happen. And when I used my iPhone in the morning, like, everything was going super slow and sluggish.

01:34:17   I had to reboot my phone and it worked and I tested an alarm and the alarm did work.

01:34:21   So like, I think the phone just got itself into some horrible state overnight where everything was like, freezing.

01:34:28   So that was part one.

01:34:30   My cam- I'm having serious issues with the camera.

01:34:33   Like really big ones. So you know if you open the camera app and you switch from photo to

01:34:40   portrait, you know it kind of goes blurry and then...

01:34:43   Yes.

01:34:44   Right? A lot of the time I open the camera and it just keeps doing that blurry thing

01:34:52   over and over again like it's trying to switch mode but it's not doing it. Sometimes my camera

01:34:57   works, sometimes my camera doesn't work. And that's been a real issue that I've had. And

01:35:02   then the sharing suggestions when you share. Oh, they come back. They come back randomly.

01:35:10   I did nothing and now they're back again. So I'm finding like a weird set of stuff that

01:35:15   keeps happening to me. I keep, um, uh, I keep rebooting my phone and sometimes it makes

01:35:23   things better, but these are, I've not had any significant issues on any of a beta and

01:35:28   I have on this one. So just wanted to say this is a case of like, yeah, I know it's

01:35:31   a beta, and I'm just saying, because we talk about the betas here a lot, they're still

01:35:35   not perfect, so like, you know, be aware.

01:35:38   So yeah, please, I hope that the bugs continue so that this comes out later than usual.

01:35:44   I'm sure you want, yeah, okay.

01:35:45   I'm sorry, Myke.

01:35:46   But I really hope you run into more bugs.

01:35:50   Oh, that's nice, isn't it?

01:35:52   No, but I mean, this is bad, right?

01:35:54   Because it was supposed to be the opposite.

01:35:56   Like it was supposed to be...

01:35:58   Remember the report where they...

01:35:59   I'll say, look, it's been great, right? Like, I expect that bugs will get introduced throughout the beta process, right?

01:36:05   But like so far, it's been absolutely rock-solid for me, but I've just hit a few this time

01:36:11   Okay. Okay. Yeah, I want to say like personally for me, it's been okay. Not perfect

01:36:18   I'm not sure if I... and this is why I'm not writing this chapter until early September

01:36:24   I'm not sure if they are reaching iOS 12 level of stability, because iOS 12, I remember they

01:36:33   did a really good job.

01:36:35   Because that was one of the core features that year.

01:36:40   We really tried to improve the performance and we fixed a lot of bugs.

01:36:46   I'm not sure if 14 is up to that standard.

01:36:51   So yeah, it's not like, personally for me it hasn't been bad, I haven't run into like,

01:36:56   it's a bunch of bugs, a bunch of glitches, some surprising decisions like search, but

01:37:01   otherwise pretty okay. But I'm not sure I would call it as stable or as polished as

01:37:08   12.

01:37:09   Yeah, and I'm still finding some shortcuts loading very slowly from the widget. That's

01:37:15   been a persistent issue that I've had.

01:37:18   Some of my shortcuts broke. Some of my shortcuts have empty variables now, which I noticed

01:37:24   because I was tapping those shortcuts and they were doing nothing, and I was like "why

01:37:27   are you doing nothing?" and then I went in there and sure enough the variable fields

01:37:31   were empty.

01:37:32   I've had some, not where the variables are empty, but the variables are wrong. Like they

01:37:37   were magic variables where it wasn't pulling in incorrect data, it just wasn't set as the

01:37:44   right magic variable, like something got reset and it was kind of like a, not empty but almost

01:37:50   like it was an empty magic variable. It said a thing but it wasn't doing the thing that

01:37:55   I thought it was supposed to be doing. I had to go in and edit the magic variable and then

01:37:59   it would fix itself. So you know, but like look, these are not complaints. These are

01:38:05   just, we're just talking about our experiences.

01:38:08   You're just filing a radar on a podcast.

01:38:10   or feedbacks. I'm filing a feedbacks right here. I'm sorry I don't file them.

01:38:18   I sometimes do when I feel very strongly about them. I haven't felt strongly about

01:38:23   anything. I'm seeing things that are frustrating to me and I've done it in the

01:38:26   past where I have really felt like something had to change and

01:38:30   I really believed in it. But all the things that I'm running into, it's

01:38:34   like they're bugs. I'm sure somebody else is experiencing them. If my

01:38:39   camera thing persists through to beta 5 then I will file a feedback but you know

01:38:45   I'm kind of like yeah I'm sure I will get fixed. But I also, look, I will say again

01:38:51   we talk about them. I'm talking about it. I know people at Apple listen to the show if you

01:38:57   work at Apple and you hear what I'm saying and it sounds really bad now you

01:39:02   know. We're talking about them right we're bringing attention to them and I

01:39:09   think, you know, sometimes when I feel very strongly about something, I would, or

01:39:13   maybe, and that's especially true for like very bad bugs, as you remember my

01:39:19   iCloud stuff last year, I actually need to collaborate with like an Apple

01:39:23   engineer who's like asking me for a sysdiagnose or like multiple crash

01:39:27   reports, you know, that kind of stuff. I obviously, I obviously want to go in

01:39:31   there and make sure that I file a detailed piece of feedback, but otherwise

01:39:35   I think it's the normal cycle of things where Apple pays attention to

01:39:41   folks who have an audience and talk about these new features and what they

01:39:45   think about the new features and the issues that they have with an audience.

01:39:49   So I think it's just the regular, the way things are and I think it works

01:39:55   pretty okay for them. Safari and Big Sur supports 4k YouTube videos. I've been

01:40:03   watching YouTube videos in 4k on my iPhone on my iPad for the last like

01:40:07   three or four weeks this is something that I came across as well as Safari and

01:40:14   something I've noticed 2160p like 4k it's not worth it on the iPhone like

01:40:20   1440 does the job right but when I have tried it at 2160 my phone gets really

01:40:28   hot in one very specific place. That's the 4K chip. I know it must be the processor right,

01:40:37   this is where the system on the chip is, but it's almost like I can feel the little square that is

01:40:42   hot right like it's not like the whole thing warms up like it gets very hot in a very specific area

01:40:48   which is why I've ended up just setting it to 1440p but like you know watching 4k videos on

01:40:54   my 12.9 inch iPad, no my 11, my 12.9 is still not on the back, or my 11 inch iPad is really

01:41:01   nice.

01:41:02   Like it looks really good.

01:41:04   And also just watching 4K YouTube videos in a web browser is also really great.

01:41:09   I don't know exactly what had to happen for them to do this.

01:41:13   Like it seems like Apple is supporting VP9 in some way because like when I tweeted about

01:41:20   a few weeks ago people said go enable this setting and you can see like that

01:41:24   the codec that this that the MKBHD video in question that I was watching said VP9

01:41:29   so you know like it's interesting to me that this happened with the shipping

01:41:35   YouTube app on iOS 14 but if it works it works so yeah I love it I love what it

01:41:43   being able to watch them in better quality now yeah yeah this is one of the

01:41:48   reasons why I... you know this thing, this is one of those cases for me of... is it

01:41:55   called like the butterfly effect? Like a small thing that has like much larger

01:42:00   and unexpected consequences? Is it called that? Okay. Like a butterfly flaps its

01:42:05   wings in Asia and there's an earthquake in California or whatever. Yeah, basically that.

01:42:10   And also like this single thing of like Apple adopting 4k YouTube playback on

01:42:18   on iOS, you would say, okay, yeah, you know, it's nice, but what could possibly happen

01:42:23   to your life? Well, my bedroom was, well, no, we redid our bedroom because I really

01:42:30   wanted to have a Mac mini because I really wanted to have a desk in a particular location

01:42:35   because the Mac mini, among other things, would also run YouTube DL to download 4k content

01:42:42   from YouTube and allow me to watch 4k stuff on YouTube. Now, of course, there are other

01:42:46   reasons why I needed to get a new Mac and why I decided to get a Mac Mini. At the time

01:42:53   it was the best option for me. However, now I'm thinking, well, one of the big reasons

01:42:59   why this Mac Mini is always on during the day is because I use it to download 4K stuff

01:43:07   because I want to watch 4K stuff on my iPad Pro.

01:43:11   And how are you watching those videos?

01:43:14   I just put them in Plex. I download them and put them in.

01:43:19   But now, like, the Mac Mini I'm using a few times a week to record shows, but as a server,

01:43:27   I don't have them, like, I don't have a lot of things in Homebridge anymore, and I'm not

01:43:32   gonna use YouTube DL anymore. So, like, I'm thinking is the Mac Mini still the best option

01:43:39   for me?

01:43:40   I'm so pleased you've said this because I had something that I've not wanted to admit for a while and now I can admit it safely

01:43:47   So I also bought a Mac mini to do home server things, right? I never did any of them

01:43:53   That that Mac mini its purpose was so I could

01:44:00   Sometimes use like eva Luna display or screens on my iPad to do something on a Mac that I couldn't do on iOS

01:44:09   I'm really pleased I bought that Mac Mini because it's now the machine that I'm using here at Mega Studio because

01:44:14   You know my whole setup can't be put into place the way that I wanted but I had like

01:44:20   Aspirations of a Mac Mini home server lifestyle that just never came to fruition

01:44:26   Yeah, yeah, so now I did use it as a server

01:44:31   I mean I did use it for sure like I really used YouTube DL

01:44:34   I had all of those dreams, right? That I was gonna do all that, I was gonna set up Homebridge,

01:44:39   and I just never, I just was too lazy, I never did any of it.

01:44:43   Yeah, that doesn't really surprise me. You don't strike me as the server type of guy.

01:44:46   But I did, I did use it, and now I don't anymore, and I'm like, okay, is this still the best computer for me?

01:44:55   And because of this, do I still need it? Like, yeah, I still need a desk and I still need a display,

01:45:00   but like I don't know I don't know right I could be any other Mac at this point

01:45:04   and I like the Mac Mini but you know. But are you thinking about getting a laptop

01:45:09   like what are you? I don't know should I? I have no idea like should I get a

01:45:16   laptop no I shouldn't get a laptop. Not now. Not now but like when the so okay

01:45:22   when the first Apple Silicon Macs come out should I reconsider? When is the

01:45:27   first Apple Silicon Macs come out you should get one anyway. Because it's gonna be so

01:45:32   interesting and weird and like iOS apps running on the Mac maybe you move back to the Mac.

01:45:36   Yeah see yeah imagine that. Look serious for serious for realsies right now like for realsies

01:45:46   there is a non-zero chance that if that experience is good I may move back to the Mac. Wow that's

01:45:53   That's a big statement for the end of the show.

01:45:55   That experience has to be very good, but I would just say I'm spending more time in front

01:46:00   of a Mac again because of the studio.

01:46:04   When I'm here, and this may change, right?

01:46:07   It's just because the...

01:46:08   If you may remember, maybe you didn't know, in my studio that I'm in now, I have two desks.

01:46:13   One is my recording desk and one will be my work desk.

01:46:17   My work desk will be set up with a permanent iPad station and a permanent Mac station,

01:46:22   I'm not using that desk right now because I can't bring the equipment here that I wanted

01:46:27   to like my iMac Pro or whatever.

01:46:30   So when I'm at the studio, I'm only sitting at one desk, which is a much smaller desk,

01:46:35   which I just have a Mac on and it doesn't really have the space that I would want to

01:46:39   comfortably be able to use an iPad on as well because I've got like a keyboard here and

01:46:44   a Wacom tablet and like all the stuff that I need when I'm doing Mac based work, right?

01:46:49   So when I'm at the studio and I'm here for like three days a week now, most weeks at

01:46:54   least, and I'm here for like eight hours a day, I'm pretty much just working on the Mac

01:46:59   for most of that time.

01:47:00   I don't prefer it, but it's just the situation that I'm in.

01:47:06   I did, I will say today, when I wanted to do the show notes for this show, I went and

01:47:11   sat on a chair that I have here and did them on my iPad because that workflow is way better

01:47:16   for me to do on iOS. It just sucks on the Mac, the way that I like to do things. But

01:47:23   if I can get all of my iOS apps the way that I want them and it works really well, I don't

01:47:30   know. All I'm saying is the jury is out on that one. But to go back to the point at hand,

01:47:37   I think it would be really useful for you to be able to understand what that experience

01:47:43   is like Federica? I don't think you're wrong, especially because now I feel less attached

01:47:48   to this Mac Mini on a daily basis. Like I've gone, since I started using iOS 14,

01:47:55   I've gone more, and since I really decreased my usage of Homebridge, I've gone multiple days when

01:48:02   I was not recording any show, I quit the Mac Mini, it was just off, turned off all day, like for

01:48:09   multiple consecutive days. I don't know, you know, I'm thinking about it.

01:48:13   Federico though, so pros and cons, getting rid of the Mac Mini, you could get rid of the,

01:48:18   would you get rid of the display, the LG 4K? See, I don't know, because I kind of like it

01:48:23   as a display, but it's also kind of ugly. It is. I never fully appreciate it, and I know that I

01:48:29   I would like to have something that I can use with the iPad Pro, because I...

01:48:33   I really love my Dell display that I have by the way

01:48:36   Like it's a very it's a nice looking display

01:48:40   I just wanted to say that for the for just for the point saying it. I have no complaints about my Dell display

01:48:46   I would say if you're gonna get rid of the the external display

01:48:50   Yeah, like a notebook would be nice to be smaller wouldn't it be like this whole setup in your bedroom, right?

01:48:55   It would just be a computer you could put in a drawer when you're not using it Mac minis are quiet

01:49:00   laptops aren't always quiet, but hopefully the Apple Silicon ones won't that won't be a that big of a deal

01:49:06   You know worry about fan noise when you record in a hot room, but it's not like you'd be going to a 16 inch

01:49:12   MacBook Pro I mean the thing is can get can get loud so that would be my one concern is noise

01:49:18   but if you're gonna keep the

01:49:21   display anyways, I don't see why you would need to

01:49:24   replace the Mac Mini

01:49:27   outright

01:49:29   with the caveat of

01:49:31   You should totally have an R Mac when they come out because you need to cover iOS apps on the Mac

01:49:37   Okay, okay. Wow. I cannot believe that there's a good chance that I may be purchasing a Mac in 2020 Wow

01:49:44   Huh? Oh, well just keep tabs on that. So, okay

01:49:49   All right, if you want to find our show notes this week, they're on the web at relay.fm/connected/306

01:49:57   Lots of stuff there that we have spoken about there's also some other fun activities

01:50:02   You can take part in on our website. You can send us an email with feedback or follow-up

01:50:05   There's a link right at the top to become a member to sign up for connected pro

01:50:09   You get this show with no ads and extra content, which is a lot of fun. You can find us over on Twitter

01:50:15   You can find Myke there as I am y

01:50:17   K e Myke hosts a bunch of shows here in relay FM Myke name a show you host

01:50:21   The test drivers you say that you've said that three weeks in a row darn it

01:50:26   I don't know then. It's your newest one, so it's just on your mind. Yeah, and what else do I host?

01:50:33   Cortex? I feel like I'm catching you off guard every time I ask you that. I've been doing it for a month now.

01:50:37   Yeah, I feel like I should be prepared, right? Or I should make a shortcut

01:50:42   that does a random...

01:50:45   Oh, random podcast. Yeah, that's good.

01:50:47   Well, it's not truly a random generator. You're not making up new podcast names. It's just choosing from a dictionary.

01:50:53   But doing it at random at random

01:50:55   You can find Federico on Twitter as Vitichi v. ITI CCI and he is the editor-in-chief of max stories net

01:51:04   Which will be home of his ios 14 review

01:51:07   sometime later this year

01:51:10   The pressure yes now you're committed now that I've said it here

01:51:15   You can find me on Twitter as ismh and my writing over at 512 pixels net

01:51:22   I'd like to thank our sponsors this week Ahrefs, Pingdom, and Hover. Until next time

01:51:28   gentlemen, say goodbye. Arrivederci. Cheerio. Bye all.