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306: Big Shoes to Phil

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0:00:00(upbeat music)

0:00:02- Hello and welcome to Connected episode 305.

0:00:13It's not 305.

0:00:14- Isn't it?

0:00:15- 306.

0:00:16- It's 306.

0:00:17- Oh.

0:00:18(upbeat music)

0:00:26Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 306.

0:00:30It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

0:00:32Ahrefs, Pingdom, and Hover.

0:00:34My name is Stephen Hackett

0:00:35and I'm joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci.

0:00:38- Hello, Stephen Hackett.

0:00:39- Hello Federico, how are you?

0:00:42- I'm good, I'm good.

0:00:43- Good. - How are you?

0:00:44- Pretty good.

0:00:45It's August now, which is weird,

0:00:48but time keeps ticking away, you know?

0:00:52- Mm-hmm, don't mention it, I know.

0:00:56We're also joined by Myke Hurley.

0:00:58It's a me, Michael.

0:01:00It's a me Michael, it's a me Michael.

0:01:03Yeah.

0:01:03It's a me.

0:01:05I have that Lego coming and I'm so friggin excited.

0:01:09The Mario Lego.

0:01:10You got the Mario Lego.

0:01:11I haven't got it yet.

0:01:12It's on the way.

0:01:13I did do something silly, which I need to resolve in a typical Myke fashion.

0:01:18So there's the, I think I referenced the NES Lego on a previous episode, right?

0:01:24But as well as that, LEGO have the Mario sets, where they're like these little play sets with the LED eye Mario.

0:01:32You know what I'm talking about? You guys must have seen these. I know Federico has.

0:01:35Stephen, have you seen these? The Mario LEGO sets?

0:01:38Yeah, they look great.

0:01:39Yeah, so I accidentally ordered two of these.

0:01:43[laughs]

0:01:45Because...

0:01:45Oh, why you keep doing this?

0:01:47Because I don't pay attention to what I'm doing. I rush. So this is what happened.

0:01:51The NES Lego went up for sale and I wanted to get that quick

0:01:54and you couldn't preorder that, right?

0:01:55So I ordered it fast and then thought to myself,

0:01:59oh, I want to make sure I have the Mario starter set, because

0:02:03if you have one of those two Marios and you put it on top of the NES set,

0:02:07when you turn the crank, it plays the music of what's happening on the screen,

0:02:12which I just think is friggin awesome, so clever.

0:02:14So I wanted to get that.

0:02:15So I did. I ordered them both and they're both on the way.

0:02:18But what I didn't remember is back in April, because who knows about anything in the past,

0:02:24back in April when they announced the Mario sets you could pre-order them.

0:02:28And I did pre-order the starter set.

0:02:32So now I have two starter sets on the way.

0:02:35So I guess someone's gonna get that for Christmas.

0:02:39That's what I'm thinking.

0:02:41- Hopefully they're not listening. - That second set, like probably my younger brother's gonna get that for Christmas.

0:02:46That's probably what's gonna happen with that one.

0:02:47This is a very John Borhies thing to do.

0:02:50It is, isn't it?

0:02:51It is.

0:02:51I guess I'm getting to John's age, I suppose.

0:02:54John is 33 years old, so.

0:02:56[LAUGHTER]

0:03:00Yes, he is.

0:03:01And I'm nearly there.

0:03:02I'm nearly there.

0:03:03Times two.

0:03:04Steven, how old are you again?

0:03:06I am--

0:03:0742?

0:03:0834.

0:03:09I thought it was two years.

0:03:10Yeah.

0:03:10I heard that on upgrade.

0:03:12I was talking about this on upgrade.

0:03:13Yeah.

0:03:13Yeah, I forgot how old you were.

0:03:15You're 34?

0:03:1534, yeah.

0:03:16You're 34.

0:03:17- Yep, I'll be 35 early next year.

0:03:20- Ooh, that seems unfortunate, 35.

0:03:22I don't like the sound of that.

0:03:23- 35 is the age that Dante wrote the Divine Comedy.

0:03:26- Oh, so close to me. - What are you gonna do

0:03:27in your final year before you're at that level?

0:03:29- Yeah. - I mean, I think

0:03:30my big Sur review's gonna be pretty decent.

0:03:32(laughing)

0:03:34- They'll say in years to come.

0:03:3635, that was the age that Steven wrote the big Sur review.

0:03:39- Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah.

0:03:41- You know, hopefully I'll review the first R-Mac.

0:03:43Plan to do that, so.

0:03:45I got a lot of exciting stuff, man.

0:03:46I'm gonna have a snack after we record.

0:03:49It's looking up over here.

0:03:50- But you're not 35 yet, so that won't count for the snack.

0:03:53- Not yet.

0:03:54That's true, the snack is a warm up.

0:03:56- You're riding into the sunset

0:03:58with a bunch of great stories, Stephen.

0:04:00- I hope it's not the sunset.

0:04:01- Nope, goodbye, Stephen.

0:04:03That's it for you.

0:04:05Nice knowing you.

0:04:07- Oh boy.

0:04:09All right, let's do some follow up.

0:04:11Follow up.

0:04:13Discontent with our NASCAR coverage.

0:04:16Listener Michael has now created an F1 car.

0:04:19Basically, Listener Michael, Myke.

0:04:22No, it's not me.

0:04:24It's not me.

0:04:25Okay.

0:04:27And it's spectacular.

0:04:29It's so good.

0:04:30Oh my God.

0:04:31It's very good.

0:04:32This is it for me.

0:04:33Like this is one I'm looking for.

0:04:35This is amazing.

0:04:38Couple of questions.

0:04:39I mean, I appreciate it,

0:04:42but why is the Club Max Stories logo in there?

0:04:45Because it's all... Okay, so Formula 1 cars are covered in sponsors.

0:04:50No, no, that I get. It just feels like it was pretty like relay-themed.

0:04:56But I do appreciate it.

0:04:57It's the themes of the three of us, right?

0:04:58Yeah.

0:04:59I mean, arguably, I have the least to do with this F1 car.

0:05:03Although Myke was right, it does sit just over the air intake.

0:05:06Myke was right.

0:05:07But there's something that is related to all of us, right?

0:05:10512 pixels is on there.

0:05:11We have the weird fish on there.

0:05:13Remember the milk is on here.

0:05:15Remember the milk, the dog cow, the Macintosh, the seal of quality is in there.

0:05:20Yeah.

0:05:20This is really well done.

0:05:22It's really good.

0:05:22It's really well done.

0:05:23Yeah, I like it.

0:05:24I like it.

0:05:25It's very nice.

0:05:26Are you still following Formula One, Myke?

0:05:28Oh, so badly, man.

0:05:29I love it.

0:05:30Any key updates that we should know about?

0:05:34One of the races has coronavirus.

0:05:35Oh, okay.

0:05:38We talked about that.

0:05:38We'll do a buy then.

0:05:39Oh, no.

0:05:41because they went home, they left the country and they now have coronavirus.

0:05:48That's unfortunate. He's doing okay though, you know, but he does have it.

0:05:52I did see the clip where the guy finished with a flat tire which seems like a miracle to me.

0:05:58I've seen that on the news as well. He was going like 140 miles an hour with three wheels.

0:06:03It's unbelievable. And it happened on the final lap, it was incredible.

0:06:08You could see Lewis Hamilton, of course. Second place was like coming around the last bend,

0:06:14right? It was like catching up to him because obviously like Lewis was going slower because

0:06:18he had three wheels. It was a thrilling end to the final race. So I'm really loving F1 boys. I'm

0:06:24it. Like I don't, you know, I just want to say I'm not the person who keeps bringing it up. People

0:06:28keep bringing it up around me and they get me talking about it. Uh, but I'm loving it. I'm a

0:06:32I'm a big sports boy now.

0:06:34I'm just telling you, if you ever want to practice, there's a circuit very close to

0:06:39our place here.

0:06:40I don't think you understand.

0:06:42You can practice.

0:06:45What am I practicing?

0:06:46Start very slow.

0:06:47Start very slow with like a go-kart or something.

0:06:49Right, right.

0:06:50Formula 1 isn't like soccer, you know, like you can't go play Formula 1 with your friends.

0:06:55Can't you just practice Formula 1?

0:06:57I don't think so.

0:06:58I feel like Formula 1 today. Let me drive at 200km/h. I'm just telling you, if you ever

0:07:11change your mind, we have an actual circuit. Do you call them circuits or tracks? What

0:07:16do you call them? It depends. They can be circuits or tracks. Do you know the name of

0:07:21the circuit that you're talking about? Well, actually let me double check. I don't think

0:07:28it's enabled. Okay, so Vallelunga Circuit, let's see... held the Rome Grand Prix.

0:07:41Wow. Okay. Vallelunga Circuit. Yeah, being used by the new configuration as received

0:07:48a promulgation from the FIA as a test circuit being used by various Formula

0:07:54one team. Yep, unfortunately it's not one of the ones in the actual calendar but

0:07:59it is used in some some regards. There you go.

0:08:01ACI Velolunga circuit will be in the show notes because people need to know.

0:08:06Yes and it's like I would say 30 minutes away from here so yeah 20 miles north of

0:08:12Rome. Yeah, yeah I remember correctly. You would think it was a slow news week.

0:08:19If you ever want to practice.

0:08:21It isn't.

0:08:21I mean, look at those sweet bends.

0:08:22Can you imagine you just jarring there, you know?

0:08:26Yeah.

0:08:26Risking your life for the glory of the show.

0:08:29That would be incredible.

0:08:30Yeah.

0:08:30That's what I need to do.

0:08:31Formula one before I have my driving license.

0:08:35It's a beautiful idea.

0:08:38I have some bad news.

0:08:40Green Gate continues to take over the world.

0:08:43This is not a thing like this and the year of Steven.

0:08:46Like--

0:08:48The thing that you are referring to has absolutely zero to do with the previous issue.

0:08:55No, it's green and it happened to me.

0:08:57That's literally the whole basis of it.

0:08:59Then your avatar on Twitter is also suffering from green gate.

0:09:02Just the left side of it.

0:09:04Right, okay.

0:09:06It's partial green.

0:09:07Can you explain to people that can't see what we're talking about, please?

0:09:10Yes, there's a link in the show notes to this.

0:09:12I have big Sur on my MacBook Pro.

0:09:16And in beta three, I don't actually know about beta four yet.

0:09:21But in beta three, at least when I started up, all of the touch bar buttons are lime

0:09:26green except the dim brightness button.

0:09:30But the increased brightness, the keyboard brightness controls, the volume controls,

0:09:35all just bright green, and you log in and then after a minute, it goes away and it acts

0:09:41normally.

0:09:42I love that something has happened where the touch bar finally got an update.

0:09:47That's the real new thing.

0:09:48Yeah, people are always complaining that nothing's happening with the touch bar, but something

0:09:52new has happened with the touch bar, so, you know, job done.

0:09:56Bright green.

0:09:57I mean, how do you even come across a bug that does that?

0:10:02I'd love to know how these things work.

0:10:04The chat room is calling it "Green Sur."

0:10:06So that's what we're going to go with.

0:10:08What is green in Spanish? Verde is in Italian so I want to say "vierde" maybe in Spanish.

0:10:16Yeah I think that's it. So this would be what? Verde sur? If you want to give it a go, Federico,

0:10:23because I can't do it. Let me just double check. No it is verde, but it's with the...

0:10:29I can't roll the R's. Are you sure that it's... let's see, Spanish...

0:10:35Hey, it's very so verdesur. There you go. Very good. Very good. Yes. I

0:10:42Have not by the way seen this on my iPhone. So the the Green Gate has

0:10:47Migrated from my phone to my laptop. It hasn't has it's a different thing. It hasn't this is like

0:10:53Like we are talking about nothing here. Like you just had a bunch of green buttons. Yes

0:10:58It's completely 100% unrelated to what happened to you last time

0:11:04You're not a software developer.

0:11:06So the screen of your iPhone, slightly tinting green,

0:11:10Yes.

0:11:11Is the same issue as the buttons on your touch bar

0:11:15being green some of the time when you're logging in.

0:11:19Yeah, it's a Bonjour bug.

0:11:21The green traveled across the network.

0:11:23It's a Bonjour bug.

0:11:24Do any devices still support that old technology?

0:11:27Everything.

0:11:28Yeah, Bonjour is everywhere.

0:11:29That's how you print.

0:11:31That's how you do file sharing.

0:11:33It's all there.

0:11:34Sure.

0:11:35Really?

0:11:35Is this a co-bonjour?

0:11:36Yeah.

0:11:37Bonjour, big sir.

0:11:38Bonjour, mademoiselle.

0:11:41Oh my god.

0:11:42This is Federico.

0:11:44Oh, yes.

0:11:45Bonjour.

0:11:46Bonjour is a beautiful word, I think.

0:11:47It is a beautiful word, isn't it?

0:11:49I really like the sound of the French language,

0:11:53but I cannot, like, I don't understand a single word of it.

0:11:56But I really do love the sound of it.

0:11:58The language of love?

0:11:59But I can only say, like, three words in French.

0:12:03which are?

0:12:04Bonjour, mademoiselle. There are two of them.

0:12:07Okay, what's the third one?

0:12:09Merci.

0:12:10Ah, good, they are three, they're correct, they are three French words.

0:12:14"C'est vous plait", which is more like an expression.

0:12:16Well, that's more, you've got up to like five or six now.

0:12:18Yeah, yeah, and then I know a bunch of names of football players. That doesn't really count.

0:12:23That's not a word, no.

0:12:25I know a bunch of names of boroughs in Paris, like Montmartre, for example, that doesn't apply.

0:12:31You saw yourself short a minute ago. You only knew three words and now it's infinite.

0:12:34I actually know a bunch of words. I can speak French.

0:12:37You can move. You can move now.

0:12:38I can go. Okay. Alright. Bye. Let's see. I gotta catch a plane to Paris.

0:12:42Good luck.

0:12:43Let's go.

0:12:44That's the luck to you.

0:12:47You know Bonjour used to be called Rendezvous and then they got sued.

0:12:50Really? So it's always been like a French name.

0:12:53Yeah. They got sued by TIBCO Software, which I don't know, but my guess is they're not

0:12:59business anymore. This is in 2005. Well they probably cashed out when they won

0:13:04that old Apple lawsuit. Yeah and then Apple had to change it to Bonjour, which is a

0:13:07better name anyway I think. Oh, real-time follow-up, TIPCO is still very much

0:13:14alive. They're strong. Mm-hmm. They fuel the modern enterprise through TIPCO

0:13:19connected intelligence. Don't we all though really, like if you think about it.

0:13:23They IPO'd at one point. They have a COVID notice on top of their website

0:13:28because everyone has to do that. They make it possible to unlock the potential of your

0:13:33real-time data for making faster, smarter decisions.

0:13:35That's nice.

0:13:37Pretty good. Way to go.

0:13:39Way to go, Tipco.

0:13:41Big Bonjour energy.

0:13:43Okay.

0:13:44We want to talk about Phil?

0:13:50Yeah.

0:13:51Okay. So yesterday, as we record this, it was announced, amongst other things, which

0:13:56we'll get to, is that Phil Schiller is stepping out

0:14:00of the SVP of Worldwide Product Marketing.

0:14:04He's held that title for a long time.

0:14:06He's been at Apple for 30 years,

0:14:08which is just an incredible run.

0:14:10He is becoming an Apple Fellow,

0:14:12which if you're not familiar with this,

0:14:13Myke, you mentioned this Lincoln upgrade,

0:14:15we'll have it again here.

0:14:17It's a list of basically all dudes who worked for Apple

0:14:20at some point who have great history with Apple

0:14:23and they get sort of awarded this title.

0:14:26It's just not an Apple felon by the way

0:14:28This is all men and I didn't notice this when I was recording upgraded

0:14:34I saw a few people mention it afterwards and like there are many

0:14:38Prominent women who have worked for Apple like just to name one name would be Susan care, right?

0:14:43It was responsible still to this day for a lot of the iconography that we see

0:14:47In the operating system right like things came from the work that care did years and years and years ago

0:14:53Yeah, it's wild that

0:14:55they wouldn't have put... it's not even the idea of like, "oh this should be a more diverse list"

0:15:01but just like to have this list of people and care not to be in it is very strange.

0:15:06It just feels incomplete. Like how is she not in it? Like she of all people should be in here.

0:15:11Yeah.

0:15:12Also who are these other people?

0:15:15There's so many names here, I have no idea.

0:15:17Don Norman and Rich Page.

0:15:19Don Norman.

0:15:21Rich page feels like what I would tell my editor when I send my draft.

0:15:25So it's a rich page.

0:15:26That's good.

0:15:27This is a rich page edit.

0:15:28Yes.

0:15:29There are people that I have no idea who they are.

0:15:31So it's kind of, if you look at this site, all of the names in red I've never heard of

0:15:35and the names in blue I have heard of, which makes sense because the names in red don't

0:15:39have corresponding pages.

0:15:40Although you gotta say, like you gotta say, what a name, Gary Starkweather.

0:15:47Like what's your last name?

0:15:48Starkweather.

0:15:49It's like, okay, I don't want to mess with this guy.

0:15:51In Starkweather.

0:15:53Don Norman worked on, he kind of like put together the idea of user experience.

0:15:59He worked for Apple in the nineties and Gary Starkweather was also at Apple in

0:16:06the nineties and invented color management technology.

0:16:10So like color sync and things to keep your display color accurate over time.

0:16:14He did a bunch of that stuff.

0:16:15And he just recently passed away.

0:16:18Christmas last year. Why did we make a joke of his name? I'm so sorry. I would like to apologize to the Stark

0:16:26Weather family. I also apologize. Mm-hmm. You have a great name. Oh, he used to work at

0:16:32Xerox. Yeah, yeah, a lot of Xerox PARC DNA in this list. Rich Page, by the way, he was one of the

0:16:43first four Apple Fellows. He worked on early compilers and hardware development. In fact,

0:16:50he brought in the Motorola 6800K family of microprocessors for the least amount of time.

0:16:55All right, we're not doing a great job here of pointing out that it should be a more mixed

0:17:00list and then just spending time listing the accomplishments of all of the men on this

0:17:04list that we never heard of.

0:17:06He later rage quit Next.

0:17:07Oh, Jesus, we're doing it. All right, let's actually go back to talking about Phil Schiller,

0:17:10right?

0:17:11- Apple fellow, he still has a job at Apple.

0:17:15He's not just like hanging out in the pool, I guess.

0:17:18He will continue to lead the App Store and Apple events,

0:17:22which is the team that I guess puts on events.

0:17:25There's this thing in the press release

0:17:26about how he led the effort to make WBCC 2020 virtual.

0:17:31And I think that's cool.

0:17:32I think he did a good job with that.

0:17:33I think we all liked how that went.

0:17:35So he is still going to be doing those things,

0:17:38but the worldwide product marketing job

0:17:41is now going to Jaws, who has also been at Apple

0:17:44for a long time, 20 years I think,

0:17:46and I think it is a good job where we see him

0:17:51and we've seen him more over the years,

0:17:53and so I think he's got big shoes to fill,

0:17:54but I think he's up for the job.

0:17:56- I feel like I don't really know a lot about Jaws.

0:18:01Like I feel like I see him every now and then,

0:18:05but I don't feel like I have as much of a,

0:18:10Like, oh, I know what this person's about

0:18:12as I do some of the other people

0:18:14that are on Apple's executive leadership page.

0:18:17Maybe that's gonna change now, we'll find out, I guess.

0:18:20- I do think that the timing of this is kinda interesting.

0:18:24Now, let me just say upfront how I think

0:18:28Phil had an incredible career,

0:18:30and working for such a long time at any company

0:18:33is an accomplishment in itself.

0:18:35To do this, like, to work at the same place

0:18:38for over 30 years, I think it's an amazing achievement.

0:18:42And we all know how this person has led

0:18:48some pretty incredible projects over the years.

0:18:50And I don't think I tip my head to this kind of career.

0:18:55However, at the same time, like in 2020,

0:18:59I think your mind goes, or at least my mind goes,

0:19:03to the timing of this.

0:19:06And I've seen some tweets about this

0:19:07from Ben Thompson and Steve Chatonsmith.

0:19:11I don't know, obviously I know nothing, right?

0:19:16This internal dynamics.

0:19:18I have no idea what's going on actually,

0:19:21but it doesn't really surprise me

0:19:25that this is happening now of all time periods

0:19:29in the history of Apple,

0:19:31with all the things going on around the App Store

0:19:34and the antitrust cases going on.

0:19:36Now, obviously, like Apple is saying,

0:19:39how Phil is still going to continue to lead and oversee

0:19:42the App Store.

0:19:44I do agree with Ben Thompson's take from yesterday.

0:19:48Like he wrote, I'd be really surprised

0:19:50if he's still overseeing the App Store in six months.

0:19:53I think six months may be a little too short a time frame.

0:19:57But personally, I would be really surprised

0:19:59if he's still overseeing the App Store in a year.

0:20:02That's what I would say.

0:20:03I don't think it's a coincidence.

0:20:05This is happening now.

0:20:06I think-- I don't think a lot of people on Twitter, especially,

0:20:11a lot of folks who follow Apple, I

0:20:12don't think they have a grasp just

0:20:14to how bad the antitrust stuff is going to be, both in the US

0:20:19and in the EU.

0:20:20And I don't think Apple is getting away with this easily.

0:20:24And I think Apple must be pretty aware of this, right?

0:20:30And I think if you know that something's going down

0:20:33over the next several months.

0:20:36Obviously you wanna be prepared.

0:20:37Obviously you wanna have,

0:20:39you gotta have a transition of power.

0:20:41You gotta show that you're changing.

0:20:42And you gotta show that you're, you know,

0:20:45you are making changes for whatever's gonna happen.

0:20:49And so, I do believe, I personally believe,

0:20:54again, without taking away anything from Phil's career,

0:20:58that's out of the question.

0:20:59But as far as the modern app store goes,

0:21:02as far as the politics surrounding the antitrust cases go, I think that maybe

0:21:08this current situation accelerated this process, right? I mean, obviously, Phil

0:21:13turned 60, so he's had an incredible career. Could have still worked at Apple, I

0:21:19don't know, but I do feel like maybe, you know, all these things going on

0:21:24accelerated this process of, you know, it's the same thing that

0:21:30happened with Johnny Ive and when we were saying, oh, he's obviously on his way out.

0:21:34When he became chief design officer. When he became chief, a lot of people were

0:21:38really upset and like, how can you say that this is now, it means he's retiring, it means

0:21:44he's going to be more important now. It's like, and we were saying at the time, no,

0:21:49this is obviously the sign of Johnny slowly but surely retiring from Apple. And sure enough,

0:21:55happen a couple of years later and I think this is at least for me very

0:22:01reminiscent of that in terms like the dynamic maybe like it feels like there's

0:22:07there's a I don't know maybe this is just my feeling it just feel like

0:22:11there's more sympathy towards Phil than Johnny I don't know how just my my

0:22:16personal feeling like well the reason is because Phil is an app gave a

0:22:20personality to the world where Johnny was more shut off by his own decision I

0:22:26just wanted to clarify a point for you if that's okay Federico because you

0:22:31reference Ben Thompson and he on the Dithering podcast that he does with John

0:22:37Gruber he kind of clarified his point a little bit which is slightly different

0:22:41to what I think his original tweet seemed to indicate he doesn't he if I'm

0:22:45summing up his point correctly, which I may not be, is basically saying that he actually

0:22:52probably has stayed as the head of the App Store because of what's going on right now.

0:22:58Not that he is leaving Apple because of what's going on right now.

0:23:01Right.

0:23:02Right, so it's like they maybe don't want to say that the App Store is under somebody

0:23:06else's control right now because it's going to be a tough job.

0:23:10So like they will have him do it.

0:23:11But the idea of him, as I don't know if you're saying this, but I've seen people say this,

0:23:15The idea of Phil leaving Apple because of the App Store stuff is incredible.

0:23:20It just doesn't make, it's very unlikely.

0:23:23It doesn't make sense to me either because if your thought was like, "Oh, I need to run

0:23:26away from this."

0:23:27Like if there was ever, if it was going to be like a legal challenge against you, just

0:23:31because you don't work for the company anymore doesn't mean that stops.

0:23:33Yeah, no, of course.

0:23:35I think the thinking here is like that he's, I mean, very clearly the guy just wants to

0:23:40retire, right?

0:23:41Right? Like, you know, he's been, as you said, 30 years at the same company.

0:23:46He's turned 60 this year.

0:23:47Like, he probably just wants to change what he's doing.

0:23:50Um, and, you know, the idea of him moving away, and frankly as well, like no one

0:23:56was going to take over Schiller's entire role.

0:23:59Like, because Schiller does like three different things, which is a thing that

0:24:03we see happen with Apple executives.

0:24:05Deirdre O'Brien's the same, right?

0:24:07where Deirdre now runs two very different parts of the company, really.

0:24:12You've got the people and retail, they are different things.

0:24:16And Shilla does a bunch of stuff, so Jaws will take his place in the marketing side

0:24:22and then eventually they'll find somebody to run events in App Store.

0:24:26But you kind of maybe want to unbundle it and wind it down.

0:24:30And as well, this kind of feels like a transition plan, really, more than anything.

0:24:36not the, this feels to me not the idea of like Schiller's like, "I gotta get out of

0:24:41here," but that over the last couple of years, you know, he's been making it clear to Tim

0:24:45that it's like, "I'm kind of good now." And they're like, "Great, well let's work out

0:24:50how we wind this down," right? Which is different to say Angela Arendt's, who was like, "Very

0:24:56clearly, this is done," right? Like one way or another because it came out of nowhere

0:25:01and she was gone, right?

0:25:02Like the next day, gone.

0:25:04And this is more of a, like, I guess,

0:25:06very similar to Johnny Ive, right?

0:25:08Like, I wanna step away now.

0:25:10And they're like, great,

0:25:11we're gonna work out this plan, this transition.

0:25:13And so first you're gonna give this part away,

0:25:15and then maybe in a year you'll give this part away.

0:25:18I completely agree that within a year,

0:25:21Phil is gone, I would expect.

0:25:24- I mean, that's very likely.

0:25:25I just, as a person myself,

0:25:27I tend to be very skeptical of these transitions whenever there's something else going on at the

0:25:33same time. So while everything that you said makes sense, I cannot avoid considering the timing of it.

0:25:40This is the human, and I'm not saying that you're doing this, but this is like the human

0:25:45nature for like conspiracies, right? And I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, but it's like it's how

0:25:52people they like it's this idea of looking for cause and effect right which

0:25:57is something that that we do as humans all the time we look for cause and

0:26:00effect and you see this and you're like well this thing is happening this thing

0:26:05is happening it seems very convenient that they would be attached to each

0:26:08other and that your brain just makes the link between these two things and that's

0:26:12that right I'm not saying that you're creating a conspiracy theory if you want

0:26:16to create one and talk about it here I will entertain that because I like

0:26:19hearing wild conspiracy theories. But you know, but yeah, I get your point, right? That

0:26:25it's like, it seems mighty convenient that the guy who's been running the App Store maybe

0:26:30doesn't want to be around to run the App Store in a year because it's about to get really

0:26:34difficult to run the App Store. Like, I see that logic too and can imagine that if Phil

0:26:41wasn't thinking of it, he maybe would have started thinking of it, right? To be like,

0:26:45I think in a year it might be really hard to run App Store at Apple because you have

0:26:49to start implementing what the governments around the world want you to do with the App

0:26:53Store.

0:26:54Right?

0:26:55Am I kind of summarizing what you're saying?

0:26:57What I'm saying is that there's some big changes coming to how the App Store operates, and

0:27:02by the time that happens you want to make sure that you have new people in charge.

0:27:05That's what...

0:27:06I don't think it's, you know, I don't think it's a big conspiracy.

0:27:09I think it's...

0:27:10When you look at it from the outside, and I guess some people don't expect that anything

0:27:15is going to change to the upsource and people say that the government is crazy to have this

0:27:19case against Apple, but I think there will be big changes happening and by the time that

0:27:24inevitably happens, both in the US and in Europe, you want to make sure that you have

0:27:28a new structure in place. That's all that I'm arguing and for that reason, yes, Phil

0:27:32may want to retire, but I'm very skeptical of the timing of this. And to answer some

0:27:38of the comments that we're getting in the chat room, I think whenever, you know, people

0:27:44I have these discussions about executives leaving a company, first of all because they

0:27:50are very public figures, and second because history teaches us that there's always a backstory,

0:27:58right?

0:27:59Especially with high profile executives leaving Apple in recent history, there's always been

0:28:04a backstory.

0:28:05And so the pattern teaches us that there's always more hiding beneath the surface, which

0:28:10I think it makes for a fun, you know, exercise in analysis, makes for a fun conversation.

0:28:17And especially now, with everything happening around the App Store, I think it would be,

0:28:23it would be, you know, kind of short-sighted not to consider the circumstances. I mean,

0:28:29you can ignore them, but that's not how I usually operate. You know, sometimes, you

0:28:37know, being skeptical all the time sure is not a great way to live, but sometimes

0:28:42you're right about it, and so that's why I consider the circumstances. And maybe

0:28:48I'm wrong, but I mean, it's a fact, right? It's happening now, these antitrust cases,

0:28:53so it's at the very, even though you don't believe it, it's at the very least

0:28:58something that you should mention. I think that it would be wild to not at

0:29:03least consider it. It's like I'm agreeing with you, like it would you should it there

0:29:07is a cause and effect potentially at play right like you would at least talk

0:29:10about it. Like if this was if Phil didn't run the app store we wouldn't be talking

0:29:16about this. No exactly. Right so like yeah if I don't know I'm look who is another

0:29:23I don't even remember then everybody's people needs like so if Dan Riccio senior vice

0:29:28president of hardware engineering left wouldn't be going what about the app

0:29:31store, right? Like, that wouldn't come up because it doesn't make any sense. Can I just

0:29:37say one last thing about this maybe before we move on, which I kind of found funny? There's

0:29:42just this one line which I just really like where Phil says, this is a quote from Phil,

0:29:47where is it? It's about his friends and he just, he only referenced, here we go. "It's

0:29:54been a dream come true for me to work at Apple on so many products I love of all of these

0:29:58great friends Steve, Tim and so many more and I just kind of like that because it's

0:30:03like who's he leaving out right because he only mentioned Steve and Tim Scott makes perfect

0:30:13sense to mention Steve obviously so therefore you would definitely mention Tim because that

0:30:18would be terrible right like if he just said Steve and so many more like you kind of got

0:30:22I mentioned to him, he's your boss, but like there are many colleagues he's not mentioned.

0:30:27Does he secretly hate Craig Federighi? Who knows? I just find that funny. Like obviously

0:30:33you should probably stop at Steve and Tim because then you're definitely going to leave people out,

0:30:38but it was just funny to me anyway. It's a big move for a company that has relatively

0:30:45stable people at the top. Is it possible that he is the current longest tenured employee?

0:30:52No, I don't think he's the longest tenured employee, but he's the longest tenured person

0:30:57on the executive page.

0:30:59Right.

0:31:00So there are people that are still working at Apple for longer than 30 years?

0:31:03Yeah, Chris Espinosa comes to mind, for one.

0:31:06Wow.

0:31:07He was there early on.

0:31:08That's incredible.

0:31:09But he, I think he is the longest running executive, and I mean, think about how long

0:31:14he's been there.

0:31:15He not only came to Apple when it was kind of a weird move to do so, but stayed through

0:31:21the 90s survived the Jobs transition, right?

0:31:24Like you would think a product,

0:31:26like a marketing person would maybe not,

0:31:29I don't know his title exactly when Jobs came back,

0:31:31but he survived a lot of change.

0:31:33And I think he's adapted really well to current Apple

0:31:38where when Jobs was around,

0:31:42he did a lot of the heavy lifting.

0:31:44Phil slid into that spot really well.

0:31:47And as they've done a lot to diversify the people they have on stage and the voices we

0:31:53hear from Apple, he's done a good job at stepping aside and letting other people have their

0:31:57time.

0:31:58And I just I look at that and I look at the flexibility that he, at least from the outside,

0:32:02has shown in his career and I find it I find it inspiring a little bit that somebody who

0:32:07has such a long career at one place can change and adapt and be successful through several

0:32:13different eras.

0:32:15It doesn't surprise me that he never left.

0:32:18Because if marketing is what you love to do, is there a better company to work for?

0:32:25Apple's marketing is incredible.

0:32:28It's arguably one of the reasons that they are as successful as they are in modern times.

0:32:35Unless you wanted a specific challenge, like I want to turn a company around, if you want

0:32:41to work on marketing, especially if you want to work on marketing and technology, like,

0:32:46why would you, you know, why would you why would you leave, you know, so doesn't surprise

0:32:51me. He was there for so long. And he's still there. He's not gone, not gone yet.

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0:34:38support of the show and Relay FM. Federico, there's new IMAX. Mm-hmm. You

0:34:45excited about this? Very exciting. Yes. I can... Much more than my stupid conspiracy

0:34:50theories. Hey! Come on. Hey. This is very exciting. Let's move away from conspiracy

0:34:57theories and talk about iMacs. I wasn't saying it was a conspiracy theory.

0:35:04So what's new in the iMac? Maybe there's conspiracy theories about it. No there

0:35:08definitely is. There definitely is. So the 21 inch iMac stays the same. The only

0:35:15changes SSDs are now in all the default configurations. They're pretty

0:35:20small. They start at I think 256 gigs so the Fusion Drive remains an option on

0:35:25the 21 and a half inch iMac everything else is the same older processors older GPUs

0:35:30They still have the 1080 display. So that base

0:35:341099 iMac still not 4k retina. It's just hanging out down there at the bottom as the only non retina computer Apple sells

0:35:41Which is sad the 27 inch is where all the the news is. So just quickly move through this

0:35:48SSD across the board up to 8 terabytes on the upper end

0:35:53They they all come with the t2 security chip now

0:35:56It was the last Mac not to ship with that

0:35:59So the 21 inch does not have it because you can get the fusion drive, but the 27 does

0:36:03Higher RAM ceilings up to 128 gigabytes of memory much better GPUs with up to double video memory

0:36:11It got the fancy microphone system. It got 1080p webcam

0:36:15the top end is a 10 core i9 which you can spec to which is bananas and

0:36:22something that really surprised me I didn't see coming the nano texture option on the Pro Display XDR is

0:36:28available on the 27 inch iMac

0:36:30It's $500 here as opposed to the thousand it is on the Pro Display, but that's really cool

0:36:36I'm I did not see that coming. I'd like to see the nano texture show up on more and more products

0:36:44I think it's really cool. The nano texture thing is my favorite part of the

0:36:49Announcement because it opens the door for future products to get that now

0:36:54Because it was something we'd hoped and and kind of assumed that if Apple could find a way to make it a thing on other

0:37:00Products they could you may be thinking that that sounds like an iMac Pro to me. That's not like an iMac Pro

0:37:05And it is so it has lots of RAM. It has better GPUs. It has the 1080p webcam, which the iMac Pro had

0:37:14To account for this Apple has dropped the 8 core Xeon from the base iMac Pro. So the base iMac Pro now comes with a 10 core

0:37:21Xeon W processor the rest of the iMac Pro is the same

0:37:26No new video card, even though it needs one no updated Xeon

0:37:30No, nano texture option. So the iMac Pro is just kind of hanging out there

0:37:35Unchanged now for coming up on three years, which is it really I really think the iMac Pro is

0:37:42I don't think it's gonna survive the Intel to ARM transition. I think it's

0:37:46gonna die with a Xeon and not be resurrected on the other side. What do

0:37:51you guys, what do you think about that Myke? Do you think it's over for the

0:37:53iMac Pro? I think it's becoming more likely that it's not gonna be needed

0:38:00anymore. There's no point continuing to make the iMac Pro if the iMac can be as

0:38:05powerful or more so, which could be possible after the Apple Silicon

0:38:11transition. So I think it's at a point where it just may not be needed and also

0:38:16we were talking about this on upgrade a little bit. The iMac Pro was conceived in

0:38:22a very different time. The iMac Pro was conceived when there wasn't a Mac

0:38:29Pro, there was not going to be another Mac Pro, is a better thing to say. And so

0:38:34they continued with that computer because they had to plug the gap before

0:38:37the new Mac Pro would be ready and so they went with it right actually I think

0:38:42they when they showed it off they hadn't had that roundtable yet had they or had

0:38:45they no they had hadn't they they first mentioned it in that roundtable thing

0:38:49and then they showed it off at WWDC that's right a little later on now you

0:38:53know I think it's it's fair to say that like if Apple would have continued with

0:38:57the Mac Pro and continued wanting to invest in the Mac Pro they never would

0:39:02have made the other Mac Pro they would have just continued to make the iMac

0:39:05more powerful as they have done anyway right like the iMac Pro has not stopped

0:39:09them from making the iMac a better computer because as you said like this

0:39:14one is pretty much it and in some ways is better than so much so that they got

0:39:20rid of the base model iMac Pro right like the was it the 8 core or the 6 core

0:39:26they got rid of it because it's not competitive enough anymore and then

0:39:31they brought the price down of the 10 core to start at 5000. So I think that they're

0:39:37further proving that even in the current climate before Apple Silicon, the need for the iMac

0:39:43Pro is becoming less and less. I think once we move past this, what's the point? Like

0:39:49if you could just keep spec'ing iMacs up to be super powerful, why have a different product

0:39:54line? You're just confusing things. I think so too. I mean the iMac Pro still has headroom

0:39:59over the iMac, but it is a smaller gap

0:40:02than it used to be, a gap that may not matter

0:40:04by the time Apple Silicon rolls around.

0:40:07I do think that this 27-inch iMac, the 5K,

0:40:10is gonna be around for a while.

0:40:12This is a very meaningful update,

0:40:14and we can talk about whether it's the last update

0:40:15or not in a second.

0:40:17But this machine could sit on the shelf for 18 months

0:40:19and I think be okay.

0:40:21And that does make me think that the current,

0:40:27like roadmap to arm is maybe notebook heavy at first and that the iMac would follow a

0:40:32little bit later on.

0:40:33Well, they didn't touch the 21.

0:40:37That's true. And it may be that they replay I don't think the 21 will survive either.

0:40:41I think it think the rumors a 24 inch 21.5 is pretty small. I don't know the last time

0:40:45anyone sat in front of one of those but it's it's pretty small for you to something bigger

0:40:49and maybe that one goes arm and the bigger one stays until a little bit longer. I don't

0:40:54know if they would split the iMac that way.

0:40:56Can I test your memory here a little bit?

0:40:58Yes, please.

0:40:59When they moved the MacBook Pro, the 13 inch, to the Magic Keyboard, what else did they

0:41:08do to it?

0:41:10I think it came with a spec bump.

0:41:13Yeah, but I'm trying to remember what kind of specs were bumped.

0:41:19Basically what I'm trying to posit here is that the...

0:41:23Oh, I remember what they did.

0:41:25They added, that one is the one that can go up to 32 gigabytes of RAM and they added a

0:41:30bigger storage option.

0:41:32Okay.

0:41:33So because of new processors, it was a spec bump with a keyboard.

0:41:38Right.

0:41:39Because while I'm trying to draw a line here, it was to say that the 16 inch, the 15 became

0:41:45the 16, it got a big revision.

0:41:47The 27 to the new 27 is a big revision.

0:41:50Yeah.

0:41:5113-inch MacBook Pro and the 21 and a half inch iMac got some changes that were arguably

0:41:59necessary changes for both. Like the iMac didn't get as much as the MacBook Pro. The

0:42:04reason I'm saying all this is because maybe those models aren't going to be as long in

0:42:10the world as the more expensive models in their lineup.

0:42:13Sure.

0:42:14Right? So that like we may see, I genuinely think we're going to see a consumer laptop.

0:42:20I don't know what it is. I don't think it's going to be the Air, I'm not sure.

0:42:23The MacBook Pro and the iMac 21 inch, they will be the first things.

0:42:28This is not a completely original thought, I'm just putting my stake in the ground, right?

0:42:31They will be the first three Apple Silicon Macs, so they can have cool consumer options

0:42:39and showing the power, which will be what the MacBook Pro will do.

0:42:44That's probably what's going to happen.

0:42:47And that might be why the smaller iMac kind of didn't think you were going to get touched

0:42:52at all, to be honest.

0:42:54Maybe it's up sooner in the ARM list.

0:42:56Which I think makes sense too, right?

0:42:58Like if you're going to do it at desktop, well that's the desktop you'll start with.

0:43:02You don't start with the iMac Pro if they're going to do one.

0:43:07And to be honest...

0:43:08The iMac and the Mac Mini.

0:43:09Yeah, I think when we say the iMac Pro won't exist anymore, it's the idea of there being

0:43:15an iMac which is different.

0:43:17Like that is a different computer.

0:43:19The internals of it are different.

0:43:21Where it is designed separately,

0:43:24it has a different cooling system.

0:43:26They may have a version of the Apple Silicon iMac

0:43:29that's painted gray.

0:43:30And they just call it the iMac Pro

0:43:33and it's just a higher level.

0:43:36But the idea of there being this completely separate machine

0:43:41which looks like an iMac but kind of isn't in the insides,

0:43:44it's very different. I don't think that that's going to exist anymore.

0:43:48Yeah, I think that tracks. That does bring up a point about these iMacs, is that as far

0:43:55as we know, no one's taken one of these apart yet, but Apple didn't mention it. I think

0:44:00they would have if it had been done. The cooling system has not been iMac Pro-ified. It doesn't

0:44:07have the overhaul that the iMac Pro got. Now, the big one doesn't have a three and a half

0:44:13drive in it anymore. I don't know how they're doing the SSDs but at the very

0:44:17least it would should it should have better airflow but it does not have the

0:44:21cooling the iMac Pro does and the that could be a little noisy on the 10 core

0:44:26maybe we'll have to see how it goes and Jason is providing real-time follow-up

0:44:30the cooling system is not an iMac Pro cooling system so it is the same fan

0:44:35layout as the as the previous 5k. So I'm sure in Cinebench you know the iMac Pro

0:44:40will still be able to be, you know, like in some benchmark it's not gonna get

0:44:44throttled but like I just don't know how important that stuff is. So anyways, good

0:44:47day if you're at iMac. I think if you've been holding out for an iMac this is a

0:44:51good time to update. This is the biggest update the iMac's had in a while and

0:44:55that brings us to the question of is this the last Intel iMac? Are we gonna

0:45:01see another 27-inch update? I don't think we will. I think that because this

0:45:08update is so meaningful they've done so many things that this 27 inch iMac can

0:45:14last a while and I think it buys them enough time to get an Apple Silicon 5k

0:45:19iMac out the door. I think that this is sort of the last hurrah for the Intel

0:45:24iMac. I would say if I was gonna make this some kind of pick. Oh yeah. This will

0:45:29be the last time the new badge is on the Apple Store for any Intel Mac. Really?

0:45:36Mmm, no more Intel updates after this that doesn't mean no more updates like the Mac Pro gets updates

0:45:43But they don't put the new badge on it. Well, then are the Mac Pro gets new components. You can put in it sure

0:45:49Yeah, that's not a product update saying that that's definitely gonna happen

0:45:54I'm just doing what we do with pics, but like I think that it's possible like, you know, like yes

0:45:59You could do it. You could update the Mac mini, but I don't think they will right like

0:46:02so I

0:46:06I can't really, I could see a world in which

0:46:10this is the last major update for an Intel machine,

0:46:13like major update.

0:46:14Like they'll continue doing stuff to the other computers,

0:46:17but I don't think they'll be major enough.

0:46:19We'll see.

0:46:20- Anyways, that's iMac news.

0:46:22Kind of a fun, it's been a very busy week for August.

0:46:26Very, very strange.

0:46:28Usually very quiet this time of year.

0:46:30- Yep, because everyone's at work,

0:46:32no one's going on vacation.

0:46:34- It's not a time of year where tech companies

0:46:36do a lot of releases. Yeah, because people go on vacations. Yeah. And no one's doing

0:46:40that. So why stop? I'm going. Yeah, but you're in a country that has Zach together.

0:46:44Well, and also on your vacation you write an iOS review the whole time so that doesn't

0:46:50count. But like the idea of like shutting down for the summer season, which is something

0:46:55that happens in corporations, like it just doesn't happen in this year. So, just keep

0:47:01working. The Lord just keep working. Do you guys think they have more coming in August?

0:47:05Yes.

0:47:06Hmm. Is that a yes because you think or is that a yes because you've heard?

0:47:11No, it's a yes because I think. Like, just that thing that we spoke about last week,

0:47:15you know, which that wild set of predictions. I just think that there's, I think that Apple

0:47:23potentially still has a lot in the pipeline this year and they may as well start getting

0:47:29it out while they can, especially because if they have products they can sell that are

0:47:36new, they will want to do that because of the quarterly results.

0:47:40Because they've already said that the iPhone will be slipping.

0:47:43So the iPhone, no iPhone will be sold in their fourth fiscal quarter.

0:47:48New iPhone, right?

0:47:49It's all going to go to Q1, the holiday quarter, because they're not going to come out until

0:47:53October.

0:47:54So I would expect that if Apple has new products to sell that they have otherwise ordered onto,

0:48:00I would expect them to put them on sale.

0:48:02And that would include stuff like AirPods, AirPod Studio, HomePod, that kind of stuff.

0:48:09If they have them.

0:48:10If you've got them, sell them.

0:48:11Have you guys changed your mind on the iOS?

0:48:14I'm going to talk about iOS 14 in a few minutes.

0:48:17Have you guys changed your mind on the release date?

0:48:20You're still thinking they're not going to change it?

0:48:22Are they going to postpone it?

0:48:24that they have said the thing about the iPhones?

0:48:26I don't know man, because I still don't feel like I can put...

0:48:30So what we're saying is that Apple said that the iPhones are coming a couple of weeks later

0:48:35this year, which means they'll be in October. But I still can't put my finger on when would

0:48:40they have the event. Right, yeah.

0:48:44Because they could still have the event in the first week of September if they want to.

0:48:49Like, I mean, it's not like it's a surprise when iPhones come out.

0:48:52So like lots of people are not buying iPhones in late August or early September anyway,

0:48:57because they know there'll be a new one. So if they still want to put iOS 14 out in the middle

0:49:04of September, which they may still want to do, for I don't know what reason, but they may still want

0:49:08to do it, then they will do that. And then they'll do the iPhone, they'll show it off, they'll say

0:49:13they're coming in a month, and that's that. So I still feel like I'm not, I can't predict it

0:49:19any differently even though they've given me that date?

0:49:22Yeah, unfortunately I'm in the same position.

0:49:25I'm sorry. Well, no, but that is... Look, it's fortunate,

0:49:29right? You should not be thinking you have extra time

0:49:32in case you don't.

0:49:34No, I know, and I'm not thinking that, but, you know,

0:49:37it would be nice... it would be nice to know, but I know it's not going to

0:49:43happen, so I'm still approaching this as if, you know, iOS is coming out in mid

0:49:47mid-September, as usual.

0:49:50That's how I'm approaching this.

0:49:52Maybe I'm a bit slower than usual this year, but it'll get done.

0:49:55It wouldn't surprise me if they just haven't decided.

0:49:57That could also be it, right?

0:49:58They could be gathered, still collecting feedback from the beta testers.

0:50:04One thing I believe is happening is they want to make sure that whatever they launch as

0:50:11the first public version is in better shape than last year.

0:50:16That I think is the main driving force here. Like, whatever we launch to the people who

0:50:22don't have the public beta or the like the public version has to be in better shape than

0:50:27last year.

0:50:28You mean like the shipping golden master version, right?

0:50:31Like, when my mom checks for updates.

0:50:34What's she gonna get?

0:50:35Like, what's she gonna get? Like, that version needs to be better than whatever they did

0:50:41with 13. Like if you guys like just to remember for a second like what they did last year

0:50:47with the split release that 13 then was 13.1 which was also iPadOS and that came out like

0:50:55first they gave us a date and then that date changed. It came out like a couple of days

0:51:02in advance like it was kind of messy and then I like I was going through these numbers for my

0:51:07review. They had like in two months like eight software updates or something like

0:51:13that. Like it was wild. Just the number of fixes and patches that they had to put

0:51:18out last year. Because I remember it was crazy for you because you kept having to

0:51:23like rearrange things in the review like if you or if you deciding if you wanted

0:51:27to right because some parts weren't available. So here on that if I was Craig

0:51:32Federighi right the way that I would do it is this back when months ago they

0:51:38must have set a target date for iOS 14 based on iPhone shipping right like

0:51:43before delays you know they would have had a date and the date would say

0:51:47September 14th or whatever right I would still say right like let's aim for our

0:51:54original date and we'll see where we are when we get there and if when we get to

0:52:00our original date we feel like we want to spend more time making it more rock

0:52:06solid let's do that up until the date that the iPhone comes out you know so

0:52:12like they've given them you know it would be like I would be giving us a

0:52:15window of where from the original date to the date when iPhones ship and we can

0:52:20decide during that period of time if and when we need to continue working on

0:52:25things that's that's the way I would do it because ultimately like they can

0:52:29release at any point up until the new iPhone, you know? Or as I proved last year, a random

0:52:36time after the new iPhone comes out. But I feel like they have the ability to do for

0:52:44themselves what you're mentioning, of like, well, they had a date that they wanted to

0:52:47ship it on, and now they might be able to actually make it even more 100% solid by spending

0:52:53a little bit more time on it. But if it's ready, go for it. I don't know.

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0:54:09of the show and Relay FM.

0:54:13So we knew that with iOS 14, one of the things that users would get to be able to do is to

0:54:19set their default browser or email client to be not Safari and not Mail.

0:54:26And all we knew is that apps would get a special, basically an entitlement to allow them to

0:54:31do that.

0:54:32Not every app could do it, you kind of had to apply for it.

0:54:35As of this past week, Apple has actually released some of the basic rules that an app would

0:54:43need to follow to be able to be either a new default browser or email client.

0:54:48So I wanted to read some of these kind of rules in basic.

0:54:51Obviously, things get a lot more complicated, but just kind of like high level, these are

0:54:55the things that you'd need to do, and then we can talk about it.

0:54:57And I know Federico, you've been looking into and thinking about this a bit over the past

0:55:01week.

0:55:02So these are the rules for browsers.

0:55:04Your app must specify the HTTP or HTTPS schemes in its info.plist file, and it cannot redirect

0:55:11a URL to an unexpected location.

0:55:14So your application can't be taking a URL that someone puts into it and sending some

0:55:18people to somewhere else, which is great.

0:55:20Your app can't use UI WebView.

0:55:22This is deprecated years ago and they need to use the Safari engine, which, you know,

0:55:27like the Chrome app uses the Safari engine, for example.

0:55:31And on launch, the app must provide a text field for entering a URL, search tools for

0:55:37finding relevant links on the internet, or curated lists of bookmarks, basic browser

0:55:42tasks.

0:55:43The rules for email apps, they need to specify the mail to scheme and its info.plist files

0:55:49so therefore when someone hits that mail to link it will open your application.

0:55:54Be able to send a message to any valid email recipient and be able to receive a message

0:56:01from any email sender.

0:56:03Apps that provide user controlled incoming mail screening features are permitted.

0:56:07These are the rules.

0:56:09To be granted with the entitlement to become a default browser or email application, you

0:56:13have to send an email to a specific email address at Apple, which are listed in the

0:56:18documentation, which feels like a pretty shady approval process.

0:56:25I had somebody posit this theory to me of like, you've got to assume that they will

0:56:30say, "Oh, okay, if you're an email app, you now have to do these other five things that

0:56:34we haven't told you.

0:56:35You need to support Split View.

0:56:38need to support dark mode right like who knows like that's how we'll approve you

0:56:42well I don't know I'm just this is just like conspiracies but it is is kind of

0:56:49peculiar that you have to send an email to a random email address is it the

0:56:53trailers at Mac calm again it's not but you know what you know what I bet I bet

0:56:58Google haven't had to send that email is it is it the same process for carplay

0:57:04that you need to request approval.

0:57:07- I know you need to request it,

0:57:08but I don't know how you do it, but it is a similar thing.

0:57:11You request to be a CarPlay application,

0:57:13and then you get given this entitlement.

0:57:15Let me see if I can find that out

0:57:17while you do talk about it a little more.

0:57:19- Also like on the topic of like Apple saying to you,

0:57:23well, we would approve you

0:57:24if all you also supported these features.

0:57:26I think that's an important point actually,

0:57:29because if you disable the defaults and especially mail,

0:57:33I wonder what's gonna happen to Siri integration, because right now if you ask Siri to send an email

0:57:40Obviously does so with mail, but if you change your default email client, what's gonna happen there?

0:57:47I guess that the correct behavior would be if you set your default to be

0:57:53Gmail or Outlook and if those apps have native Siri integration

0:57:58you will be able to just have the same functionality. So Gmail or Outlook or

0:58:04Spark, they use the SiriKit integration domain for email messages, and they let you send an email message via voice.

0:58:12Now,

0:58:14Gmail does not integrate with SiriKit, I believe, and we all know how, let's just say,

0:58:20and Google can be in terms of adopting new iOS features. Now, I do believe that a

0:58:26scenario in which I could see Google actually saying, "Oh, well, now we support SplitView, drag and drop, and slide over, and Siri."

0:58:34If

0:58:37would be if Apple were to come in and say, "Well, we really want a preview. However, we feel like to guarantee the best user experience

0:58:44for being set as default, you also need to support Siri." So,

0:58:49So, I don't know, I think there's actually something there in terms of... because if

0:58:55you change the default, then people expect to have the same features and the same experience,

0:59:01and part of that experience is also Siri for sending emails and checking your email from

0:59:07Siri.

0:59:08So, I think there's something to the idea of Apple making requests in exchange, you

0:59:14know, in return to those companies applying for this entitlement. I don't think it's totally

0:59:21out of the question. And I think it would actually also make sense, right? You want

0:59:25to be set as default, just like a minimum threshold of functionality that people expect.

0:59:30Now obviously this is not written in the rules, so maybe Apple doesn't actually care about

0:59:36this, and maybe even if you disable, like even if you change the default, but if you

0:59:41ask Siri to send an email, maybe it'll just default to mail. So Apple maybe doesn't care

0:59:46about this, but I think they should. I think it would be the right approach, technically

0:59:50speaking.

0:59:51I feel like if you ask Siri to send an email, it should do it with your default email app.

0:59:56I also think so, yes. With the default that you set, right?

1:00:02Yeah.

1:00:03Yeah. Just like when you tap on a mailto link, it takes you to your default. If you ask Siri

1:00:09send an email, you should take it to your default.

1:00:12Well but that might be like a backdoor way to get them.

1:00:15But this is not in the guidelines.

1:00:17That's a good point, that's a good point.

1:00:19But I do feel like there may be things in the guidelines, things they will want you

1:00:24to do that are not in the guidelines.

1:00:25Stephen found by the way…

1:00:27That are only explained on the phone.

1:00:29For CarPlay, yeah, not via email anymore.

1:00:35For CarPlay it's actually like just a form that you fill in, in the Apple developer account.

1:00:39So it is kind of different in a kind of peculiar way, I think.

1:00:44An email address does seem strange?

1:00:47Yeah, it seems like they didn't get the form built in time.

1:00:51That CarPlay form says this, "If you think your app has the potential to be supported

1:00:55by CarPlay, tell us about it.

1:00:58Before submitting, review the CarPlay app guidelines in the CarPlay App Programming

1:01:01Guide," and there's a link to that.

1:01:03And you can pick your app type, audio, automaker, communication, EV charging, navigation, parking,

1:01:09quick food ordering. Some of those are the new types that we got in iOS 14. And then

1:01:13you tell them about your product and then I assume that you hear back and they say yes

1:01:18or no. They're very picky about what goes into CarPlay for good reason. I don't want

1:01:24games on CarPlay. I don't want the stupid stuff Tesla does. I just want the things that

1:01:28are really useful and helpful.

1:01:30Maybe they're just assuming they won't get that many requests for the browser and email.

1:01:35really it probably isn't going to be more than a few hundred for each I would

1:01:41assume where CarPlay would be much more right I would expect like applications

1:01:46that want to be in CarPlay whether they should be there or not but like

1:01:50especially because there's so many types of applications that that could in

1:01:54theory be a CarPlay app. Can we talk about a specific line from these

1:01:59guidelines regarding email clients? I would love to. Be able, so they say email

1:02:05apps should be able to receive a message from any email sender. That's okay. Apps that provide

1:02:11user-controlled incoming mail screening features are permitted.

1:02:19What's the point? What's the point of this line?

1:02:21It's "hey". It's giving the nod to "hey".

1:02:23It's for "hey".

1:02:24Yeah, but what's the point of putting it in there if there's no problem?

1:02:26It's like "okay".

1:02:30You don't need to say this if you're only saying it because of "hey".

1:02:34Because now you made me think, "Wait, was this a potential problem? Why do you need

1:02:40to clarify that this is okay?"

1:02:42It's so strange, right? Like, if you just had the first part of that sentence, people

1:02:46aren't going to go, "What about, hey..." Like, be able to receive a message from any

1:02:51email sender. "Yeah, sure, every email app should be able to do that." Like, that second

1:02:55part of that sentence is unnecessary.

1:02:58Yeah, maybe they're just covering their bases, right? Because if you say, "Receive a message

1:03:02from an email sender and then somebody could maybe potentially stir up another controversy

1:03:07and say "Oh, but what if you have a screening service? Does it mean that Apple is going

1:03:11against Hey?" I don't know. Maybe that's stretching it though.

1:03:15I just don't know why they felt the need to put that in there. It's so strange.

1:03:18It's very odd.

1:03:19It's so weird.

1:03:20Also, because isn't it like literally called the screener or something?

1:03:25Yes.

1:03:26Yeah. So it really does stand out in there in those guidelines because everything else

1:03:31pretty generic right of course a browser are there more than one is there more

1:03:35than one app that does this I mean depending on how you read it like any

1:03:41like the smart inbox yeah that sort of stuff could fall into this maybe but

1:03:45they don't screen email like smart inboxes just resort them yeah it doesn't

1:03:50screen email hmm something like same box kind of does yeah but same box isn't an

1:03:56app. Yeah. Mail, screen, features. It's for hay. It's just like, it's just they don't... This is for hay. Maybe Google inbox? But that doesn't exist anymore. Does

1:04:05Gmail do it? Gmail has like the sorting into various inboxes based on

1:04:10promotional... It's not screening is it? But it's also not user controlled. This is just for hay. Yeah. Look, it's JAWS's first day. No, this isn't JAWS. This is still...

1:04:24Let me finish my joke, Dad!

1:04:26Oh, I'm sorry, sorry, sorry. You can edit me out if you want to.

1:04:30So it's Jaws' first day as the Senior Vice President of Worldwide Marketing, right? Schiller

1:04:35still lives at the App Store, but look, Schiller is floating in the pool on top of Apple Park

1:04:42wearing a robe or probably nothing at all. So Jaws is really in charge of the App Store,

1:04:47right? Schiller's out there just hanging out, and he saw what happened with hay. He saw

1:04:52that the hay dust up forced Schiller into early retirement and he's like you

1:04:57know what I'm gonna be really clear about this. I really love this app. I really want to approve you.

1:05:03Can't wait to do it. Well I mean yes this is basically a hay feature

1:05:10right here. Hey everything else pretty ordinary I think you cannot use UI

1:05:15WebView of course it was deprecated a couple of years ago. You cannot redirect

1:05:21people. Like, this is the reason there because, well, what if I'm now, what if I'm shipping

1:05:27a custom browser and I take whatever you tap, but I take it to my website instead? Obviously

1:05:32that is not allowed. You gotta take users to the URL that they tapped. And I think it's

1:05:38interesting the, again for browsers, how they said you gotta have an address bar. So obviously

1:05:45users should be able to tap into a text field and enter any URL. So from the sound of this,

1:05:52it seems like any single domain or website specific web viewers are not considered browsers.

1:06:02So you should always allow the users to tap into the address bar and change the URL. And

1:06:07then they let you choose either you have to offer search or lists of bookmarks. So it

1:06:15doesn't feel like search is mandatory, however you gotta choose between search or bookmarks.

1:06:20So the user needs to be able to either enter URL or have a way to navigate out of the current

1:06:28page in some, either via search or via bookmark, which I think is pretty okay.

1:06:33I'm not actually completely sure about this, because the way this is written, it makes

1:06:37it sound like any or all of the... it says "on launch the app must provide a text field

1:06:42for entering URL, search tools for finding relevant links on the internet, or curated

1:06:48list of bookmarks."

1:06:49So is it saying that you don't have to have a text field for a URL? You could just have

1:06:56a curated list of bookmarks and that would be okay? See what I mean? Like it's not completely...

1:07:01Because if you have the info.plist information...

1:07:07Yeah, it's one of these three.

1:07:09It's one of these three.

1:07:11Interesting.

1:07:12Because they don't need you to type in a URL for you to be able to work as the default browser,

1:07:20because the default browser just needs to be able to open a URL that it's given.

1:07:24I mean, also, who's going to make a browser without an address bar?

1:07:27Right?

1:07:28I don't know.

1:07:29I mean, that's...

1:07:30So, yes, you're right, it's one of these three.

1:07:34So you can open a link in a custom browser,

1:07:36but then you must have a way to navigate

1:07:39out of the current page.

1:07:41And that can either be an address bar,

1:07:43a search bar, or bookmarks.

1:07:45Which, okay, that makes sense.

1:07:47But they really wanna, I think from the sound of this,

1:07:50it seems like they really don't want the user

1:07:52to be in a situation where they install something,

1:07:54they make it their custom browser,

1:07:56and the custom browser only takes them to a single domain.

1:07:59You know, there's potentially folks with pretty shady intentions who may be planning that.

1:08:08So no Mac Stories browser?

1:08:10No Mac Stories browser is what I'm saying, yes.

1:08:13No 512 pixel browser either.

1:08:17I'm gonna make a browser.

1:08:18123 browser.

1:08:19It only takes you to your Twitter account.

1:08:22It only takes you to the URL that you tap.

1:08:26there's a curated list of bookmarks which is just like no website that is of

1:08:33any use to you so like you can't search browse the web anymore it's like a

1:08:37focused experience you know. #minimal. Yeah yeah so like you can't get to

1:08:44anywhere else on the web of use anymore that's my that's my my that's cool my

1:08:49elevator pitch. Aside from Myke I think you know Google, Microsoft, Mozilla,

1:08:56all these folks will apply.

1:08:58Maybe they will not even apply.

1:08:59Apple is working with them, I bet.

1:09:01- Which they should be.

1:09:03- They should be because obviously this is like,

1:09:05this is an actual feature that people want.

1:09:07Like when I was talking to my friends recently,

1:09:10it's like, so, you know, the usual question,

1:09:12so what's new in the next update?

1:09:15And I mean, widgets is a pretty easy sell.

1:09:18People see it and like, oh, that's cool.

1:09:21How can I do that?

1:09:22And also like when you say,

1:09:24"Oh, you can now change the default app for links."

1:09:28It's like, "Oh yeah, I wanna use Google Chrome."

1:09:30It's a thing that people understand immediately.

1:09:33- I've actually come to the thinking of

1:09:35changing the default email app is mostly a pointless affair.

1:09:40- It's more, I think people are more excited

1:09:42about the browser.

1:09:43- The browser makes sense.

1:09:44The email app, like what?

1:09:45When I tap, I will get a different--

1:09:48- Are you tapping all these Mailto links?

1:09:51Exactly! Who's tapping mail to links that often?

1:09:54I guess when you're like, I don't know, browsing like the hotel website.

1:09:59Even as a user, I am not a user of the mail app, right? Like, it's not like I struggle.

1:10:06I guess the only thing is like, so I no longer need to sign into the mail app with my email accounts?

1:10:12But like, that's it! Like, the browser makes sense, Messenger apps make sense, music apps make more sense, right?

1:10:20Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

1:10:22It kind of like...

1:10:24And those two are still apps that write music and messages.

1:10:28Yep.

1:10:30They're starting with email and browsers and maps, of course.

1:10:33I don't think you can change the... Yeah, you cannot change the default for maps.

1:10:36Yeah, I would much prefer maps to email.

1:10:40Although, I gotta say, not completely happy with Google Maps in the past year.

1:10:45What's wrong with Google Maps?

1:10:49It's just Google Maps has been making some questionable decisions for me for turn by

1:10:55turn directions.

1:10:57With this insistence on like taking the road less traveled to save like a couple minutes.

1:11:05That's Waze.

1:11:06Yes, it's basically the Waze approach.

1:11:09Don't they have settings for that kind of stuff though?

1:11:12No, I cannot find them in Google Maps.

1:11:14So many times, Silvia and I have found ourselves in like these country roads in the middle

1:11:19of nowhere because Google Maps thought that we were going to save five minutes. And I'm

1:11:23like, please let me be on the road where other human beings are driving. I don't want to

1:11:28be stuck in the middle of nowhere where I turn my head and I can see like goats in a

1:11:32field. Like this is not my ideal driving experience. I want to be on an actual road and not in

1:11:38the middle of nowhere. And it happened a few times over the past year. And it didn't used

1:11:46to be this way, Google Maps. Like, we actually didn't notice like a change. Like, suddenly

1:11:54the default became, oh, let me offer you these unknown roads so that you can save five minutes.

1:12:02And I'm like, please just let me be stuck in traffic and I'm going to get there, but

1:12:06least I will be surrounded by other people. Yeah it is definitely that's a Waze thing,

1:12:12like that's Waze's whole thing right of like using user data to tell you where people are and then

1:12:20you can route people via places where they're not but that should be a like a choice. It makes me

1:12:28feel very anxious honestly like to end up in the middle of nowhere. Because you're a little bit

1:12:33like where are you gonna send me? Like where am I gonna go now?

1:12:37Yeah exactly, it's like, yeah so I've been anticipating the rollout of the improved Apple

1:12:43Maps here but I have a bad feeling about it, I think it's gonna be another couple of years

1:12:49before we get them in Italy. Did they announce more places that they're

1:12:55taken to? I don't remember the Apple Maps stuff. Some cities in Japan got it yesterday.

1:13:00Oh that's nice, what about London? Did that ever happen?

1:13:03I have an idea. I don't think it was...

1:13:07Oh, wait. Was it mentioned somewhere that maybe the UK and Ireland...

1:13:11Huh. No, maybe I'm making this up. I don't know. I gotta look into it.

1:13:17A look around got put in Japan yesterday.

1:13:22For someone who's not checking their RSS, you're definitely up on the Apple Maps news.

1:13:27They did say revamped Apple Maps expanding to UK, Ireland and Canada later this year.

1:13:35So maybe in a few months, Myke, you will get the new Maps stuff.

1:13:37Because I only use Google Maps because I find it more reliable.

1:13:42If Apple have created a reliable system, I will use that instead.

1:13:45Yeah, they're saying later this year. So there's a good chance you'll have them by the end of the year.

1:13:51Well, I'll look forward to trying that.

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1:15:23Beta 4, iOS 14 Beta 4 came out. There's been some changes. I'll run through a couple I think

1:15:30Federico you might have some more to add. They've added more widgets. There's an Apple TV widget now,

1:15:37which was, I believe, I think I saw you say,

1:15:39like the last widget that they showed off that didn't exist.

1:15:42Yeah, yeah, they showed it off at WWDC,

1:15:45and it wasn't there in the first few betas.

1:15:47Right, but now we have it.

1:15:49We can now get widgets from third-party apps.

1:15:52It's been a bit of a tease over the last beta cycle,

1:15:55because it was like, you can submit them,

1:15:58but they won't work on devices.

1:16:00Yeah, there was like an issue in the beta 3 of Xcode.

1:16:0412 is version 12 now.

1:16:06that prevented them from working in TestFlight.

1:16:10But now they are working.

1:16:13So that's nice because now we can finally try them.

1:16:16- Yeah, I've used a couple.

1:16:17One that was interesting to me is the drafts widget.

1:16:22And I've only been noodling around with drafts recently.

1:16:25I don't really have big thoughts on it.

1:16:29But the thing that I found was interesting

1:16:31was that one of the widget options

1:16:33allows you to kind of set up a bunch of like squares,

1:16:37like buttons you can tap on to take you to things

1:16:39in the application, right?

1:16:40So you can like, to a specific note, to a specific area,

1:16:44to a search or whatever.

1:16:46And what I found is like, it is incredibly fast

1:16:49from tapping those buttons to getting to that area

1:16:52of the application in a way that I think could be kind

1:16:55of actually pretty cool because you're not like opening

1:16:58the app, tapping, tapping, tapping.

1:17:00Like I feel it feels very quick.

1:17:02Plus the animation of opening an application from a widget also feels that way as well,

1:17:07right?

1:17:08It feels like the app just comes out of the widget.

1:17:10So I don't know, I feel like there could be something kind of fun where some of these

1:17:13utility applications, like I'm thinking to-do apps or whatever, if you could say something

1:17:18like OmniFocus with your perspectives or whatever, set a little Max Stories perspective icon,

1:17:23as they are, as the wonderful icons that they are, to open different perspectives or whatever

1:17:28and OmniFocus would feel really fast.

1:17:31And so that could be one of the nice things about these widgets, is it makes getting in

1:17:35and out of applications feel quick, as well as providing information about them where

1:17:40necessary.

1:17:41Yeah, and I think judging from what we've seen so far, I think it's pretty clear that

1:17:45given the limitations of WidgetKit this year, we're going to end up with two kinds of widgets,

1:17:50like two sort of macro categories of widgets.

1:17:54Widgets that let you glance at different types of data visualizations, so anything that can

1:18:00be visualized from an app, from your step counter to the number of tasks you're supposed

1:18:08to work on.

1:18:09Like any kind of visualization, there's going to be one kind.

1:18:13And the other kind I think is these kinds of launchers.

1:18:18Launchers are back, baby.

1:18:19Widgets, the latch, because that's all they can do, right?

1:18:22Especially in the medium and the large configurations where you can have multiple touch targets.

1:18:28We're going to have these grids or lists with buttons that take you into different places

1:18:34of an app, because they cannot do anything in line, they always need to launch something.

1:18:39So I was using the Dark Noise widget for example, and you can configure the widget to choose

1:18:45the sounds that you want to play, and when you tap one, it opens Dark Noise and plays

1:18:50that sound.

1:18:51And you mentioned drafts, it's one of them, and I've been testing a bunch of other widgets

1:18:57that I have a similar idea of. You configure the widget, you choose the areas of the app

1:19:03that you want to open, and then you have a widget. And on the other side is the more

1:19:09traditional glanceable widget. There's one that I'm using called Emoji Countdown. That

1:19:14is a super basic countdown app that lets you associate an emoji with an upcoming event

1:19:20in your life, like a birthday or a trip to someplace.

1:19:24And then in the widget, you see a counter

1:19:28for how many days are left and the emoji.

1:19:30And that's all that it is.

1:19:31It's nothing more than that.

1:19:33Or for example, Shaheeb, I don't remember his last name,

1:19:37is working on the new Twitter client, Aviary.

1:19:40You may think, oh, a new Twitter client in 2020?

1:19:42That's crazy.

1:19:43And it is kind of wild that he's working on it,

1:19:46but I believe Shaheeb's planning to integrate

1:19:49with the new Twitter API. And Aviary is actually really, really interesting as a new Twitter

1:19:56client because it's like a modern Twitter app that uses modern iOS and iPadOS APIs.

1:20:02So multiple columns, drag and drop, shortcuts and serial integration, all that kind of stuff.

1:20:06Anyway, it's working on this widget that lets you glance, lets you see the latest tweets

1:20:11from your timeline. So I don't think it's possible to configure the widget right now,

1:20:16And maybe, Shahid, if you're listening, consider this a feature request.

1:20:20Maybe it would be nice to configure the widgets so that you can see the latest tweets from

1:20:23a particular list, or maybe matching a particular search.

1:20:27So I think it's clear that we're going to end up with these two primary types of widgets.

1:20:35Either you launch something, so it's like a launcher, and as Myke said, launchers are

1:20:40back.

1:20:41They used to be a thing years ago, and now they're coming back in full fashion.

1:20:45Bigger and better than ever.

1:20:47Bigger and better than ever, look at that.

1:20:48You can actually have a launcher that occupies the space of 16 icons.

1:20:52The biggest and bestest one is shortcuts, but you can't compete with that one.

1:20:57Oh my god.

1:20:58The shortcuts widget.

1:21:00Now the shortcuts widget has a smaller version.

1:21:03So there's a small widget.

1:21:05However it's not working for me.

1:21:07No, not working for me.

1:21:08The new small widgeting shortcut, it lets you pick a single shortcut that you want to

1:21:12run from the small widget size, which in theory, great idea. However, when I tap the Choose button

1:21:19to pick the shortcut, it keeps loading and loading and loading forever. I guess I probably have too

1:21:25many. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I'm glad that legacy widgets are sticking around for now,

1:21:32because given that these are the two types of widgets we're gonna have, I still wanna keep

1:21:38using something like Timery, something like Peacock for example, because that functionality

1:21:43will not be possible this year, and so I'm glad that even in Legacy mode, and even though

1:21:48they will not, they will be stuck in the today view, I'm still gonna use them.

1:21:54I've just replaced all of my time tracking stuff with shortcuts now.

1:21:59But it's not, like the Timery widget is so good, you swipe to the side and you can see

1:22:03the timer, like in real time.

1:22:06That's so good.

1:22:07- I know.

1:22:09I am finding that I'm leaving more timers on than I used to.

1:22:13- Well, you'll figure why.

1:22:15- Like, oh, it's been going for like 26 hours.

1:22:20- Yeah, well.

1:22:21- Very productive over there.

1:22:22- You know me.

1:22:23- Yeah, that's the downside.

1:22:24Although some widgets are really beautiful,

1:22:27so it kind of compensates, you know?

1:22:29- I think so.

1:22:30Yeah, the designs that I'm seeing of apps that I'm using

1:22:33or seeing people share, it's like they look so good.

1:22:37And so it's kind of, this is kind of what I had hoped

1:22:39would be the case when they showed it off that like,

1:22:41yes, we'll be taking a step back in some areas,

1:22:44but step forward in others and maybe at the end of it,

1:22:46we'll just be happy with where they are.

1:22:48Universal search has been improved in the sense

1:22:51that they fixed a kind of weird bug, right Federico?

1:22:54- You may think it was a bug

1:22:56or it was an intentional decision that they walked back.

1:22:59- I will consider it a bug because it was put up

1:23:01in a very bad decision to make.

1:23:03Well, okay, so the bug was, I tweeted about this last week, the issue was that when you

1:23:08were searching for things in the new, they call it compact search in iOS 14, in the first

1:23:15page of search results, you would only see top matches for things like app names, so

1:23:23you could still use it to launch apps, but anything else that was like content or suggestions

1:23:29from like Siri intelligence, like the trivia questions for example, everything else was

1:23:36tucked away in a secondary page.

1:23:39And I say that I'm not sure it was a bug, because it looked pretty intentional to me

1:23:43in that there was a button that you needed to press to navigate into a secondary page.

1:23:49It was like a whole interaction that they had built in there.

1:23:53And now that interaction is completely gone from Beta 4.

1:23:57So I'm not sure it was a bug when it was like an actual thing that was new and you could

1:24:03use it, and now it's gone.

1:24:05In any case, it's great that search has been fixed, because now when you search for something,

1:24:12anything, there's a single page of results.

1:24:15And sure enough, the new thing in 14 is that at the top of the search results list, whenever

1:24:21you're searching for something that is not the name of a specific app on your device,

1:24:26get web search suggestions, so like things to open in Google search or whatever your

1:24:31search engine is, which is nice because sometimes you do want to be able to quickly launch a

1:24:36web search. However, now results from other things are back in the first page, so whether

1:24:42you want to open a song or play a song in music or a document in files or any content

1:24:48that's been indexed by search for your application in iOS now is displayed on the first page.

1:24:55And what is different, I guess, is that search is faster than 13, which it is true, and I

1:25:00like it.

1:25:01I can launch apps faster than before.

1:25:05Web search suggestions, I think, are useful.

1:25:07It's nice to be able to quickly just swipe down on the home screen, type something, and

1:25:11then open a Google search.

1:25:12I think that's cool.

1:25:13And search results have been reorganized so that iOS 14 will try to provide you with what

1:25:22it thinks is a set of top hits for you,

1:25:27but if you disagree with that and you wanna see more,

1:25:30in iOS 14 Beta 4, there's a new Show More Results button

1:25:35that when you press it,

1:25:35it doesn't take you into a second page,

1:25:38it just expands in line the list of results.

1:25:42So whether it was a bug or it was intentional,

1:25:44I'm leaning toward the fact that it was intentional

1:25:47given the functional ID that was in there,

1:25:50But whatever the case, now it's back to sort of a hybrid of what it used to be and some additions in 14.

1:25:59And now I really, really like it myself.

1:26:03Like, now it strikes a really good balance of web searches, launching apps is faster, some results are more compact, but also all my stuff is in there anyway.

1:26:13So now thumbs up.

1:26:15Yeah, it's much better now.

1:26:16And also new in beta 4, the exposure notification API, so the Apple and Google system for contact tracing and exposure notifications for COVID-19 is back in...

1:26:32Well, it wasn't...

1:26:34It wasn't in 14.

1:26:35It wasn't in any previous beta, but now it's in beta 4.

1:26:39And let me tell you how terrifying it is to get these notifications.

1:26:43last night I was just chilling and watching Netflix.

1:26:46At some point my phone lights up.

1:26:49No, don't worry, I haven't been exposed.

1:26:51That's what I'm getting at.

1:26:53My phone lights up and it's like,

1:26:54exposure notification, like, oh God, what happened?

1:26:57And I look at it and the phone is like,

1:27:00you were not exposed to any, it's like, come on.

1:27:04- Why is it telling you?

1:27:05- You sent me a notification to telling me

1:27:07that I was not exposed.

1:27:08- I don't understand.

1:27:09- My heart skipped a beat there.

1:27:10- What notified you?

1:27:12The app?

1:27:13The system, the system, it had the system logo of the Exposure Notification API.

1:27:19Did I take a screenshot? Hold on.

1:27:21It notified me to tell me that I was OK.

1:27:24And like, I felt like my heart sank for like five seconds there.

1:27:30Did I take a screenshot?

1:27:33Yes, I did.

1:27:35Weekly. OK, the title, COVID-19 Exposure Logging.

1:27:39And this is the icon of the system.

1:27:43"Weekly update!" And I'm like, "God!" Imagine me reading this notification, like, "Oh God,

1:27:48your device did not identify any potential exposures this week."

1:27:53Why is it doing that?

1:27:54Why are you sending me these notifications?

1:27:56Don't tell me nothing, right? Like, tell me nothing until I need to know. That's wild.

1:28:04Yeah.

1:28:04I hate that.

1:28:05It was terrifying, and I'm sending you the screenshot now. It was absolutely terrifying

1:28:10to see this logo and this notification pop up on my phone to tell me that I was okay.

1:28:15Anyway, it's cool that we can now use our government issued app again in iOS 14.

1:28:22What happened to the second phase?

1:28:24What do you mean?

1:28:26So they announced when they announced this that a second phase would be coming in the

1:28:30coming months, which was that it was going to be in the operating system instead of needing

1:28:37applications.

1:28:38I wonder what happened.

1:28:39So I'll read from the FAQ.

1:28:42After the operating system update is installed

1:28:44and the user has opted in, the system

1:28:45will send out a list of Bluetooth beacons

1:28:47as in the first phase, but without requiring

1:28:50an app to be installed.

1:28:51If a match is detected, the user will be notified.

1:28:54And if the user is not already downloaded

1:28:56in an official public health authority app,

1:28:58they will be prompted to download an official app

1:29:00and advised on next steps.

1:29:02So this is the idea that-- so currently, you

1:29:05need to download an application to be able to--

1:29:08for the beacons to start looking for each other.

1:29:12But then there was going to be this second part

1:29:14where the operating system would just do it.

1:29:17Now, my thought was that's going to be in iOS 14,

1:29:21but they haven't mentioned that yet.

1:29:23-I forgot there was supposed to be a phase two.

1:29:25-Which is a better thing, which is, like,

1:29:27that the operating system is just constantly doing it,

1:29:30and then you download an application

1:29:33if and when a match is detected.

1:29:35-Yeah. -So here's my question to you.

1:29:38That notification that you got, had you ever gotten that before?

1:29:42No.

1:29:43So maybe that is phase two.

1:29:45Maybe.

1:29:46Because...

1:29:46Did I just like center this cover a major new feature?

1:29:49Maybe.

1:29:50And talked about it unconnected?

1:29:51Maybe, because that's the system doing it.

1:29:54Well, I mean, so I'm on the newest iOS 14 beta.

1:29:56Tennessee, like many states here in the US, is deciding not to do it.

1:30:019 to 5, Zach over there has been keeping up with this.

1:30:04And if I go into the settings section, I saw it, yeah, exposure notifications.

1:30:11And it says exposure notifications are off. If you turn them on, your public health authority

1:30:17can notify you of possible exposure to COVID-19. You can turn this on by downloading their app in

1:30:23the App Store. So at least in the current beta, it is not a system feature. I agree that because

1:30:29I get a similar thing, right? Like I, they're off and then it tells me if I turn them on.

1:30:33But Federico already has them on. I don't know, I don't know.

1:30:38Yeah, it's interesting, I don't know, we gotta listen to it.

1:30:40I still am waiting to see what they do with that. Like, when Apple and Google announced it,

1:30:46I think they thought it was going to be met more positively than it ended up being met, right?

1:30:51And I wonder if they've changed their tack on it all.

1:30:55Well, you gotta account for the sad truth of a large portion of the public, both in the US

1:31:04and in Italy and elsewhere. You know, having this new skepticism is a mild way to put it,

1:31:10around COVID-19 and really like our official app, last time I checked, you know,

1:31:16Italy has 60 million people, it was downloaded less than 2 million times. So, you know,

1:31:24Unfortunately. And that's why it needs to be in the operating system, right?

1:31:28Exactly. But then people need to still accept it.

1:31:32Yeah, it's kind of sad, really, that... Anyway, let's talk about something else. We mentioned

1:31:38the new small widget for shortcuts. Eventually I hope to get it working on my device. Now,

1:31:44this next one, I was told that actually was available starting in beta 1, but we never

1:31:49mentioned it and I missed that it was available. There's a new accessibility setting for pointer

1:31:55control in iPadOS 14 where you can now enable, this is under Settings, Accessibility, Pointer

1:32:03Control, Double Tap to Drag. So now you can choose to enable this option and you can just

1:32:10double tap, then start dragging anything on screen. This applies to files, text, icons

1:32:17on the home screen, instead of having to long press and hold, then drag away, you can just

1:32:23quickly double tap and without letting go, after you just tap twice, you can just start

1:32:28moving your finger and you will drag. I like it. It's a nice option to have. You can choose

1:32:33to have Drag Lock enabled or not. I think I really like this as an option and I think

1:32:39I'm going to try and use it for a while, because it does feel a lot faster than long pressing

1:32:45and holding to drag away.

1:32:47I think this is the same on the Mac.

1:32:50This is a setting on the Mac.

1:32:52On the Mac you can also three-finger drag, which I know that a lot of people have been

1:32:57telling me in my mentions, like, can you also enable three-finger drag?

1:33:01Unfortunately that's not possible now.

1:33:04And I want to say maybe because, like, three fingers are supported on iPadOS on the Magic

1:33:10keyboard for swipe gestures.

1:33:12I don't know how Apple feels about a continuous drag gesture with three fingers, given that

1:33:18the trackpad is kind of small.

1:33:20And also, I mean, it would conflict with the system gesture for switching between apps,

1:33:25right?

1:33:26The three fingers horizontal swipe, I think.

1:33:29So yeah, that's not possible now.

1:33:31But you can enable double-tap to drag, which I think is kind of cool.

1:33:34Which I guess is maybe more useful.

1:33:37It doesn't conflict with anything on iOS.

1:33:39at least on the Mac, the double tap will conflict with double tapping.

1:33:43But there is no double tapping on iOS, so.

1:33:46Yeah.

1:33:47Right?

1:33:48So that's actually pretty cool.

1:33:49I'm trying to think, is there any double tapping on iOS?

1:33:51I can't think of it.

1:33:52No.

1:33:53I don't think so.

1:33:54Yeah.

1:33:55This is so far, I will say, it's been the buggiest version for me on my iPhone.

1:33:59Oh, oh no.

1:34:01I'm just having a terrible time, guys.

1:34:03So this morning, my alarms didn't go off to wake up.

1:34:07Oh no.

1:34:08that just didn't happen. And when I used my iPhone in the morning, like, everything was going super slow and sluggish.

1:34:17I had to reboot my phone and it worked and I tested an alarm and the alarm did work.

1:34:21So like, I think the phone just got itself into some horrible state overnight where everything was like, freezing.

1:34:28So that was part one.

1:34:30My cam- I'm having serious issues with the camera.

1:34:33Like really big ones. So you know if you open the camera app and you switch from photo to

1:34:40portrait, you know it kind of goes blurry and then...

1:34:43Yes.

1:34:44Right? A lot of the time I open the camera and it just keeps doing that blurry thing

1:34:52over and over again like it's trying to switch mode but it's not doing it. Sometimes my camera

1:34:57works, sometimes my camera doesn't work. And that's been a real issue that I've had. And

1:35:02then the sharing suggestions when you share. Oh, they come back. They come back randomly.

1:35:10I did nothing and now they're back again. So I'm finding like a weird set of stuff that

1:35:15keeps happening to me. I keep, um, uh, I keep rebooting my phone and sometimes it makes

1:35:23things better, but these are, I've not had any significant issues on any of a beta and

1:35:28I have on this one. So just wanted to say this is a case of like, yeah, I know it's

1:35:31a beta, and I'm just saying, because we talk about the betas here a lot, they're still

1:35:35not perfect, so like, you know, be aware.

1:35:38So yeah, please, I hope that the bugs continue so that this comes out later than usual.

1:35:44I'm sure you want, yeah, okay.

1:35:45I'm sorry, Myke.

1:35:46But I really hope you run into more bugs.

1:35:50Oh, that's nice, isn't it?

1:35:52No, but I mean, this is bad, right?

1:35:54Because it was supposed to be the opposite.

1:35:56Like it was supposed to be...

1:35:58Remember the report where they...

1:35:59I'll say, look, it's been great, right? Like, I expect that bugs will get introduced throughout the beta process, right?

1:36:05But like so far, it's been absolutely rock-solid for me, but I've just hit a few this time

1:36:11Okay. Okay. Yeah, I want to say like personally for me, it's been okay. Not perfect

1:36:18I'm not sure if I... and this is why I'm not writing this chapter until early September

1:36:24I'm not sure if they are reaching iOS 12 level of stability, because iOS 12, I remember they

1:36:33did a really good job.

1:36:35Because that was one of the core features that year.

1:36:40We really tried to improve the performance and we fixed a lot of bugs.

1:36:46I'm not sure if 14 is up to that standard.

1:36:51So yeah, it's not like, personally for me it hasn't been bad, I haven't run into like,

1:36:56it's a bunch of bugs, a bunch of glitches, some surprising decisions like search, but

1:37:01otherwise pretty okay. But I'm not sure I would call it as stable or as polished as

1:37:0812.

1:37:09Yeah, and I'm still finding some shortcuts loading very slowly from the widget. That's

1:37:15been a persistent issue that I've had.

1:37:18Some of my shortcuts broke. Some of my shortcuts have empty variables now, which I noticed

1:37:24because I was tapping those shortcuts and they were doing nothing, and I was like "why

1:37:27are you doing nothing?" and then I went in there and sure enough the variable fields

1:37:31were empty.

1:37:32I've had some, not where the variables are empty, but the variables are wrong. Like they

1:37:37were magic variables where it wasn't pulling in incorrect data, it just wasn't set as the

1:37:44right magic variable, like something got reset and it was kind of like a, not empty but almost

1:37:50like it was an empty magic variable. It said a thing but it wasn't doing the thing that

1:37:55I thought it was supposed to be doing. I had to go in and edit the magic variable and then

1:37:59it would fix itself. So you know, but like look, these are not complaints. These are

1:38:05just, we're just talking about our experiences.

1:38:08You're just filing a radar on a podcast.

1:38:10or feedbacks. I'm filing a feedbacks right here. I'm sorry I don't file them.

1:38:18I sometimes do when I feel very strongly about them. I haven't felt strongly about

1:38:23anything. I'm seeing things that are frustrating to me and I've done it in the

1:38:26past where I have really felt like something had to change and

1:38:30I really believed in it. But all the things that I'm running into, it's

1:38:34like they're bugs. I'm sure somebody else is experiencing them. If my

1:38:39camera thing persists through to beta 5 then I will file a feedback but you know

1:38:45I'm kind of like yeah I'm sure I will get fixed. But I also, look, I will say again

1:38:51we talk about them. I'm talking about it. I know people at Apple listen to the show if you

1:38:57work at Apple and you hear what I'm saying and it sounds really bad now you

1:39:02know. We're talking about them right we're bringing attention to them and I

1:39:09think, you know, sometimes when I feel very strongly about something, I would, or

1:39:13maybe, and that's especially true for like very bad bugs, as you remember my

1:39:19iCloud stuff last year, I actually need to collaborate with like an Apple

1:39:23engineer who's like asking me for a sysdiagnose or like multiple crash

1:39:27reports, you know, that kind of stuff. I obviously, I obviously want to go in

1:39:31there and make sure that I file a detailed piece of feedback, but otherwise

1:39:35I think it's the normal cycle of things where Apple pays attention to

1:39:41folks who have an audience and talk about these new features and what they

1:39:45think about the new features and the issues that they have with an audience.

1:39:49So I think it's just the regular, the way things are and I think it works

1:39:55pretty okay for them. Safari and Big Sur supports 4k YouTube videos. I've been

1:40:03watching YouTube videos in 4k on my iPhone on my iPad for the last like

1:40:07three or four weeks this is something that I came across as well as Safari and

1:40:14something I've noticed 2160p like 4k it's not worth it on the iPhone like

1:40:201440 does the job right but when I have tried it at 2160 my phone gets really

1:40:28hot in one very specific place. That's the 4K chip. I know it must be the processor right,

1:40:37this is where the system on the chip is, but it's almost like I can feel the little square that is

1:40:42hot right like it's not like the whole thing warms up like it gets very hot in a very specific area

1:40:48which is why I've ended up just setting it to 1440p but like you know watching 4k videos on

1:40:54my 12.9 inch iPad, no my 11, my 12.9 is still not on the back, or my 11 inch iPad is really

1:41:01nice.

1:41:02Like it looks really good.

1:41:04And also just watching 4K YouTube videos in a web browser is also really great.

1:41:09I don't know exactly what had to happen for them to do this.

1:41:13Like it seems like Apple is supporting VP9 in some way because like when I tweeted about

1:41:20a few weeks ago people said go enable this setting and you can see like that

1:41:24the codec that this that the MKBHD video in question that I was watching said VP9

1:41:29so you know like it's interesting to me that this happened with the shipping

1:41:35YouTube app on iOS 14 but if it works it works so yeah I love it I love what it

1:41:43being able to watch them in better quality now yeah yeah this is one of the

1:41:48reasons why I... you know this thing, this is one of those cases for me of... is it

1:41:55called like the butterfly effect? Like a small thing that has like much larger

1:42:00and unexpected consequences? Is it called that? Okay. Like a butterfly flaps its

1:42:05wings in Asia and there's an earthquake in California or whatever. Yeah, basically that.

1:42:10And also like this single thing of like Apple adopting 4k YouTube playback on

1:42:18on iOS, you would say, okay, yeah, you know, it's nice, but what could possibly happen

1:42:23to your life? Well, my bedroom was, well, no, we redid our bedroom because I really

1:42:30wanted to have a Mac mini because I really wanted to have a desk in a particular location

1:42:35because the Mac mini, among other things, would also run YouTube DL to download 4k content

1:42:42from YouTube and allow me to watch 4k stuff on YouTube. Now, of course, there are other

1:42:46reasons why I needed to get a new Mac and why I decided to get a Mac Mini. At the time

1:42:53it was the best option for me. However, now I'm thinking, well, one of the big reasons

1:42:59why this Mac Mini is always on during the day is because I use it to download 4K stuff

1:43:07because I want to watch 4K stuff on my iPad Pro.

1:43:11And how are you watching those videos?

1:43:14I just put them in Plex. I download them and put them in.

1:43:19But now, like, the Mac Mini I'm using a few times a week to record shows, but as a server,

1:43:27I don't have them, like, I don't have a lot of things in Homebridge anymore, and I'm not

1:43:32gonna use YouTube DL anymore. So, like, I'm thinking is the Mac Mini still the best option

1:43:39for me?

1:43:40I'm so pleased you've said this because I had something that I've not wanted to admit for a while and now I can admit it safely

1:43:47So I also bought a Mac mini to do home server things, right? I never did any of them

1:43:53That that Mac mini its purpose was so I could

1:44:00Sometimes use like eva Luna display or screens on my iPad to do something on a Mac that I couldn't do on iOS

1:44:09I'm really pleased I bought that Mac Mini because it's now the machine that I'm using here at Mega Studio because

1:44:14You know my whole setup can't be put into place the way that I wanted but I had like

1:44:20Aspirations of a Mac Mini home server lifestyle that just never came to fruition

1:44:26Yeah, yeah, so now I did use it as a server

1:44:31I mean I did use it for sure like I really used YouTube DL

1:44:34I had all of those dreams, right? That I was gonna do all that, I was gonna set up Homebridge,

1:44:39and I just never, I just was too lazy, I never did any of it.

1:44:43Yeah, that doesn't really surprise me. You don't strike me as the server type of guy.

1:44:46But I did, I did use it, and now I don't anymore, and I'm like, okay, is this still the best computer for me?

1:44:55And because of this, do I still need it? Like, yeah, I still need a desk and I still need a display,

1:45:00but like I don't know I don't know right I could be any other Mac at this point

1:45:04and I like the Mac Mini but you know. But are you thinking about getting a laptop

1:45:09like what are you? I don't know should I? I have no idea like should I get a

1:45:16laptop no I shouldn't get a laptop. Not now. Not now but like when the so okay

1:45:22when the first Apple Silicon Macs come out should I reconsider? When is the

1:45:27first Apple Silicon Macs come out you should get one anyway. Because it's gonna be so

1:45:32interesting and weird and like iOS apps running on the Mac maybe you move back to the Mac.

1:45:36Yeah see yeah imagine that. Look serious for serious for realsies right now like for realsies

1:45:46there is a non-zero chance that if that experience is good I may move back to the Mac. Wow that's

1:45:53That's a big statement for the end of the show.

1:45:55That experience has to be very good, but I would just say I'm spending more time in front

1:46:00of a Mac again because of the studio.

1:46:04When I'm here, and this may change, right?

1:46:07It's just because the...

1:46:08If you may remember, maybe you didn't know, in my studio that I'm in now, I have two desks.

1:46:13One is my recording desk and one will be my work desk.

1:46:17My work desk will be set up with a permanent iPad station and a permanent Mac station,

1:46:22I'm not using that desk right now because I can't bring the equipment here that I wanted

1:46:27to like my iMac Pro or whatever.

1:46:30So when I'm at the studio, I'm only sitting at one desk, which is a much smaller desk,

1:46:35which I just have a Mac on and it doesn't really have the space that I would want to

1:46:39comfortably be able to use an iPad on as well because I've got like a keyboard here and

1:46:44a Wacom tablet and like all the stuff that I need when I'm doing Mac based work, right?

1:46:49So when I'm at the studio and I'm here for like three days a week now, most weeks at

1:46:54least, and I'm here for like eight hours a day, I'm pretty much just working on the Mac

1:46:59for most of that time.

1:47:00I don't prefer it, but it's just the situation that I'm in.

1:47:06I did, I will say today, when I wanted to do the show notes for this show, I went and

1:47:11sat on a chair that I have here and did them on my iPad because that workflow is way better

1:47:16for me to do on iOS. It just sucks on the Mac, the way that I like to do things. But

1:47:23if I can get all of my iOS apps the way that I want them and it works really well, I don't

1:47:30know. All I'm saying is the jury is out on that one. But to go back to the point at hand,

1:47:37I think it would be really useful for you to be able to understand what that experience

1:47:43is like Federica? I don't think you're wrong, especially because now I feel less attached

1:47:48to this Mac Mini on a daily basis. Like I've gone, since I started using iOS 14,

1:47:55I've gone more, and since I really decreased my usage of Homebridge, I've gone multiple days when

1:48:02I was not recording any show, I quit the Mac Mini, it was just off, turned off all day, like for

1:48:09multiple consecutive days. I don't know, you know, I'm thinking about it.

1:48:13Federico though, so pros and cons, getting rid of the Mac Mini, you could get rid of the,

1:48:18would you get rid of the display, the LG 4K? See, I don't know, because I kind of like it

1:48:23as a display, but it's also kind of ugly. It is. I never fully appreciate it, and I know that I

1:48:29I would like to have something that I can use with the iPad Pro, because I...

1:48:33I really love my Dell display that I have by the way

1:48:36Like it's a very it's a nice looking display

1:48:40I just wanted to say that for the for just for the point saying it. I have no complaints about my Dell display

1:48:46I would say if you're gonna get rid of the the external display

1:48:50Yeah, like a notebook would be nice to be smaller wouldn't it be like this whole setup in your bedroom, right?

1:48:55It would just be a computer you could put in a drawer when you're not using it Mac minis are quiet

1:49:00laptops aren't always quiet, but hopefully the Apple Silicon ones won't that won't be a that big of a deal

1:49:06You know worry about fan noise when you record in a hot room, but it's not like you'd be going to a 16 inch

1:49:12MacBook Pro I mean the thing is can get can get loud so that would be my one concern is noise

1:49:18but if you're gonna keep the

1:49:21display anyways, I don't see why you would need to

1:49:24replace the Mac Mini

1:49:27outright

1:49:29with the caveat of

1:49:31You should totally have an R Mac when they come out because you need to cover iOS apps on the Mac

1:49:37Okay, okay. Wow. I cannot believe that there's a good chance that I may be purchasing a Mac in 2020 Wow

1:49:44Huh? Oh, well just keep tabs on that. So, okay

1:49:49All right, if you want to find our show notes this week, they're on the web at relay.fm/connected/306

1:49:57Lots of stuff there that we have spoken about there's also some other fun activities

1:50:02You can take part in on our website. You can send us an email with feedback or follow-up

1:50:05There's a link right at the top to become a member to sign up for connected pro

1:50:09You get this show with no ads and extra content, which is a lot of fun. You can find us over on Twitter

1:50:15You can find Myke there as I am y

1:50:17K e Myke hosts a bunch of shows here in relay FM Myke name a show you host

1:50:21The test drivers you say that you've said that three weeks in a row darn it

1:50:26I don't know then. It's your newest one, so it's just on your mind. Yeah, and what else do I host?

1:50:33Cortex? I feel like I'm catching you off guard every time I ask you that. I've been doing it for a month now.

1:50:37Yeah, I feel like I should be prepared, right? Or I should make a shortcut

1:50:42that does a random...

1:50:45Oh, random podcast. Yeah, that's good.

1:50:47Well, it's not truly a random generator. You're not making up new podcast names. It's just choosing from a dictionary.

1:50:53But doing it at random at random

1:50:55You can find Federico on Twitter as Vitichi v. ITI CCI and he is the editor-in-chief of max stories net

1:51:04Which will be home of his ios 14 review

1:51:07sometime later this year

1:51:10The pressure yes now you're committed now that I've said it here

1:51:15You can find me on Twitter as ismh and my writing over at 512 pixels net

1:51:22I'd like to thank our sponsors this week Ahrefs, Pingdom, and Hover. Until next time

1:51:28gentlemen, say goodbye. Arrivederci. Cheerio. Bye all.