303: Computer Pictures Photo Album


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   Hello and welcome to Connected episode 303.

00:00:12   It's made possible by our sponsors,

00:00:14   Hover, Bombas and ExpressVPN.

00:00:17   My name is Stephen Hackett and I'm joined by Myke Hurley.

00:00:20   - Hello.

00:00:21   - Hey buddy, are you good?

00:00:23   - Oh yeah. - Yeah.

00:00:25   - Yeah, you just said hi.

00:00:26   I didn't know I had to say anything else.

00:00:27   - Hey.

00:00:28   for you to welcome back our beloved friend. And now I'm here to welcome back our beloved

00:00:33   friend, Mr. Federico Vittucci. Hello, I am beloved friend and I am back on the show,

00:00:39   so thank you. It's good to be back. I mean, I didn't want to leave you talking about Apple,

00:00:44   Silicon Macs for like multiple weeks. Just one episode is enough. So, you got that out

00:00:49   of your system. Are you okay now? Are you cool now, Steven? For now. For now. When I

00:00:54   get one in the office which is going to talk about for weeks. Yep. That is gonna be fun.

00:01:00   I'm very excited about that genuinely. Like, for different reasons. Like, I'm excited about

00:01:06   it because I'm really intrigued to see what it's like to run an iOS app on a Mac. Plus,

00:01:13   there are genuinely applications that I would like to run, like Timery, because nothing

00:01:19   else is good for time tracking on my Mac and I will like that but then I'll get into like

00:01:26   a weird mode where my iMac can't do it but my laptop can do it and it's gonna be a whole

00:01:32   big time.

00:01:33   I wonder if you're gonna have a real situation where you think I should just work on a Mac

00:01:37   all the time. I have all my apps here. Google Docs works better.

00:01:41   I will say to you I have had that thought but I don't think it's gonna happen but I

00:01:47   have had that thought.

00:01:49   We'll see.

00:01:50   It's going to be an exciting time later this year.

00:01:52   The fact that I do not, as I've expressed to you I believe on this show last week, that

00:01:56   I do not like the traditional desktop window interface, I think that that will continue

00:02:02   to keep me going back to iPadOS.

00:02:05   It's too messy.

00:02:07   Windows are too messy.

00:02:08   Wow.

00:02:09   I think about everyone else on the planet would say that sent us in the other direction.

00:02:12   But okay.

00:02:13   I know they would.

00:02:14   The only thing I like about the Mac at this point, I mean besides, you know, like, well,

00:02:19   - Certainly. - Or the battery goes bang of a bang.

00:02:21   (laughing)

00:02:22   - Certain, no, that's like a single thing

00:02:23   that I really appreciate.

00:02:25   There's a bunch of other niceties like the terminal

00:02:28   and like running stuff like Homebridge, for example,

00:02:31   like that's super cool.

00:02:32   But what I really like, what I realized recently

00:02:34   that I really like is the menu bar.

00:02:36   Like I generally like the menu bar, like as an idea,

00:02:39   like as a concept, like having this little thing

00:02:41   with multiple icons and each icon opens a menu.

00:02:43   - You know what I like about the menu bar?

00:02:45   that if there's something I believe an app can do,

00:02:48   but I don't know how to do it,

00:02:51   there's a place where everything is.

00:02:54   That's what I like about the menu bar.

00:02:55   That's a good point.

00:02:57   - I don't think they're making that podcast anymore.

00:03:00   - Oh.

00:03:01   - Yeah, but I'm talking about the...

00:03:03   Jesus.

00:03:04   - Thanks, Dan.

00:03:08   The help thing is a big part of that, right?

00:03:14   that you could just type what you want in the help field

00:03:16   and it will highlight in the menus.

00:03:18   - That's really cool.

00:03:19   - It's all very nice.

00:03:20   Yeah, I like that stuff.

00:03:21   - So yeah, a menu bar on iPad would be interesting, I think.

00:03:25   I'm pretty sure that, who was it that did a concept

00:03:28   a few months ago, maybe?

00:03:29   - Oh, one of the 50 people that made it.

00:03:32   - No, but I'm talking about one in particular.

00:03:35   No, I'm talking about like a--

00:03:38   - Steven Spicy today.

00:03:40   - Yeah, I don't know why, like I live for a week.

00:03:42   What have you done to Steven, Myke?

00:03:44   do anything. It was your absence that did this.

00:03:46   Oh, Steve, that's so...

00:03:48   I missed you.

00:03:49   Well, Kyle in the chat room has given us his concept shows how Apple could implement a

00:03:54   main menu for iPad OS apps. Is that it?

00:03:57   I thought that was too complex, that one. I remembered that one.

00:04:00   This is the Windows Start menu.

00:04:02   Yeah.

00:04:03   No, no, that was not... Maybe it was Vidit, one of the developers of Lookup, the dictionary

00:04:08   app.

00:04:09   Vidit is my favorite concept person.

00:04:13   Yes.

00:04:14   That it always does the things that I think are closest to being likely.

00:04:18   Yeah, because it's very pragmatic, it's obviously good taste.

00:04:23   I mean, if you've ever used Lookup, it's absolutely beautiful.

00:04:26   And his concepts are straight to the point, no...

00:04:31   Like this start menu, it looks super fancy, it looks fancier than it should be, really.

00:04:37   Or too much in that you've gone too far, right?

00:04:41   The best concepts are the ones that just go a step further rather than 20 steps further.

00:04:48   So anyway, there was a concept of a menu bar for an iPad and I thought, you know, it could

00:04:53   be interesting.

00:04:54   Oh yeah, I remember now, Vidit imagined an expanded status bar on an iPad, so it was

00:05:01   just slightly thicker than it is right now, and the thicker status bar could be used to

00:05:06   manage split view.

00:05:08   So you would have like, in his concept he had like a split view icon and you could use

00:05:12   that to manage multitasking and I thought that was really interesting.

00:05:15   But yeah, anyway, I don't even know what we're talking about the menu bar.

00:05:18   It's probably my fault.

00:05:19   You just loved it, that you just thought it was great.

00:05:22   As usual, I'm sorry.

00:05:24   We were doing some kind of introduction, I believe.

00:05:27   We're getting ready to move to follow-ups, let's talk about follow-up.

00:05:30   The public iOS 14 beta is out.

00:05:34   and I are both running it now on our phones. Actually I'm on the, you're on the

00:05:40   dev beta, you're on the Dave beta. Oh I forgot about that. Yeah I'm on Dave beta. Yeah. And you're on what, Paul beta?

00:05:48   Like what would be public? Mmm yeah Dave and Paul. I'm on the Paul beta. Dave and

00:05:53   Paul. And it, I really like it. Myke you spoke about this on Monday's upgrade. I

00:06:00   spoke about it on more power users that comes out on Sunday. So we've talked

00:06:04   about this other places, but I would just say that I think the ideas for the phone in

00:06:09   particular are really good. I like widgets, I like the app library. We're going to talk

00:06:12   about the app library later in this episode, I think.

00:06:14   I have thoughts about that.

00:06:16   There's a whole two-page manifesto written by Federico in our Google Doc. And it's been

00:06:24   really stable for me. I haven't had any issues. I know there's always issues with bank apps

00:06:29   and certain types of things.

00:06:30   My bank app works even though they told me it wouldn't work until August but it works

00:06:34   now.

00:06:35   They told you you were like Mr. Hacker because you were like...

00:06:38   I was jailbreaking and how dare I. But it started working. They did an update like today

00:06:43   and it started working already so they fixed it sooner than they said they would. Which

00:06:47   is good.

00:06:48   I want to draw attention to something that appeared in the Relay FM members Discord a

00:06:53   few days ago which is a website called ismr.space which is made by Aiden Nagel who over the

00:06:59   last three days I think has listened to 25 episodes of connected to pull out every instance

00:07:06   where Steven does his famed ASMR. ASMR. Yes like those and if you do you remember the

00:07:14   Myke Oracle website where people pulled out the clips of me when I was sick. Of course.

00:07:20   So that's that that one I think may have been like part of the inspiration for this and

00:07:26   basically there's just a button which just says "Whisper" and every time you press it you hear

00:07:32   a different ismr thing. My voice kind of trembled there a little bit because I pressed it and heard

00:07:39   "Pokemon" and it threw me off. Because that "Pokemon" one, there's one where you say "Pokemon"

00:07:45   and that's the one that for some reason like it just it embeds itself in my brain the most.

00:07:49   Also let's talk about the purple photo that was used for Steven on this webpage.

00:07:54   There's lots of them. They cycle through.

00:07:58   Oh, they cycle. Because the one that I'm looking at right now is the glorious mustache Steven

00:08:04   from a few months ago. Really the best look you've ever had.

00:08:09   Are you back with the mustache again?

00:08:10   Nah, I'm growing the beard out so it's kind of all the same length now.

00:08:13   Ah, the mustache was better.

00:08:15   It was. You really... I don't know a lot of people that could pull off a mustache but

00:08:20   you managed to do it.

00:08:22   Yes, yes, I agree.

00:08:24   But there you go, go to ismr.space and you can get ismh asmr whenever you want it.

00:08:30   Whenever you want it.

00:08:33   No, no! Don't say things like that! Don't do that! No, no!

00:08:40   Look, he's got to expand his repertoire, alright?

00:08:44   No, no!

00:08:45   Expanding.

00:08:46   Steven, have you ever heard of OnlyFans?

00:08:48   OnlyFans.

00:08:49   [laughter]

00:08:53   There you go, Federico has it.

00:08:55   Yeah, you should look into that.

00:08:57   You should get an Onlyfans.

00:08:59   [laughter]

00:09:04   Could be the next perk, Steven.

00:09:08   Yeah, who needs membership?

00:09:10   You get an Onlyfans, then you can make the money.

00:09:12   You have an Onlyfans, Steven.

00:09:14   [laughter]

00:09:19   Can I sign up for it?

00:09:21   Yeah, go for it.

00:09:23   You could charge some serious money there.

00:09:25   Yeah, I mean you can have multiple tiers.

00:09:27   Mm-hmm.

00:09:29   Members only content.

00:09:31   [laughter]

00:09:33   Members only.

00:09:35   Yes, yes exactly.

00:09:37   You keep taking the worst things to say!

00:09:40   [laughter]

00:09:43   We have some really exciting news.

00:09:45   Yeah, we do.

00:09:48   You wanna explain this?

00:09:50   We have an arly pants now.

00:09:52   A few years ago, what was it, 2016?

00:09:59   We were just before WWDC, discussing, like shaking up the artwork for this show a little

00:10:05   bit.

00:10:06   Connected was one of the original five Relay FM shows and then over the years, whilst our

00:10:12   artwork still has a kind of consistency. The actual artwork for all of the shows became

00:10:19   more complicated over time, like more complex in a good way. Like there was more texture added,

00:10:24   more layers, more depth. And we kind of, you know, we had, we started off with a very strict

00:10:30   guideline created by the wonderful Simon, who's our incredible designer. And,

00:10:38   But then over time, we kind of, as is usual, you kind of stretch out a little bit from where you start off, right?

00:10:46   Things develop and adapt. And before 2016, we were thinking like, "Oh, maybe it's time to mix up our artwork," right?

00:10:55   Which has been, for the last nearly six years, the six-color globe with a white background.

00:11:01   And there are lines that go around the globe, which are like, I guess could signify planes.

00:11:07   and in case you don't know, it's a fun fact, the three lines cross over each other where

00:11:15   we all live. There is also the original version, was it Iceland that got omitted from the original

00:11:21   version? Was it Iceland? Greenland, maybe. Was it Greenland? Okay, yeah, Greenland was

00:11:27   left out which is just kind of like an accident but a fun thing that happened, Greenland.

00:11:33   So, before WWDC that year, we were talking about changing it up, and then the show got

00:11:38   featured in the WWDC keynote, and we kind of could not do that.

00:11:42   Because I have a picture on my wall here of Tim Cook standing in front of a massive version

00:11:48   of the connected artwork, which is physically bigger than him.

00:11:52   So we were like, "Well, we can't change it now."

00:11:55   Then over WWDC week we were featured in the Apple Podcasts directory and they used a version

00:12:04   of our artwork where it was the globe in its colours with a six colour background behind

00:12:11   it and people were like "Oh that's amazing!

00:12:15   Where did that come from?

00:12:16   Did Apple make that?"

00:12:18   That kind of stuff.

00:12:19   thing is that artwork is five years old. When Relay FM was founded, we were very lucky to

00:12:29   get some featuring from Apple in the Apple Podcasts directory when we began. And when

00:12:35   you work with Apple, and anybody can do this now with the Podcast Connect thing that they

00:12:40   have, but I don't think you could at the time, you can submit your own promotional artwork

00:12:45   for consideration if Apple was to feature you. So they had some guidelines and we did

00:12:49   that. In the run up to WWDC it was a similar thing. We were working with a person there

00:12:55   when we arranged for our interviews to be set up and they asked for some promotional

00:13:00   artwork and because the timelines were quite tight I just thought I'll just give them the

00:13:05   one that we already have not thinking that they would use it but I also really liked

00:13:09   it.

00:13:10   It's also missing Greenland by the way.

00:13:11   Oopsies!

00:13:12   Apple's used.

00:13:13   Sorry Greenland!

00:13:14   In our defence, Apple didn't check either.

00:13:16   Well they use Apple Maps, how could they know?

00:13:22   Hey-o!

00:13:23   Yeah, also Apple believes in the conspiracy that Greenland does not exist.

00:13:28   But this is also proof of the fact that this artwork is five years old, because it was

00:13:33   created when our original set of artwork was created.

00:13:36   So we had a lot of people being like "Oh that looks so cool, looks so different!"

00:13:41   And what this is, in my opinion, is like the proof of the fact that fashion style is cyclical.

00:13:50   Because that looked cool like five years ago and then we kind of left it and now it's become

00:13:56   cool again.

00:13:58   So basically this is a very long way of saying that we have out updated the connected artwork.

00:14:03   If you look in your podcast app, as long as it's one that supports chapter artwork, you'll

00:14:06   see it and then it will be changing over the next week or so because different applications

00:14:12   cache artwork. But over the next week or so you'll see a new version of the connected

00:14:16   artwork which still keeps a lot of its original design but now instead of the white background

00:14:22   we have a rainbow background and we've added more glow to it. Honestly we've skewed more

00:14:28   and faster the connected artwork. It's 3D! It's 3D! It's curvy! This is what I'm saying

00:14:34   about taste, right? Like, we have the flat version of the artwork and we had this 3D

00:14:39   version of the artwork and we decided to go with the flat version because that was the

00:14:43   thing you did in 2014. But now, here in the heady days of 2020, we're all going back to

00:14:50   texture again. So now the connected artwork, as they're saying in the chat, has been big

00:14:54   surr- how would you say it, Federico?

00:14:57   It has been big surrified.

00:14:59   There we go, it's been big-surfied. Thank you very much. So yeah, that's where we are.

00:15:04   We, you know, we had considered, when we're back in 2016, we had considered like completely

00:15:12   rethinking the design. But I'm really happy with where we are now because it's still very

00:15:18   much the show, but is more, is more modern. So I mean, there you go.

00:15:23   I mean, we can do flat, we can do curvy, we can do whatever you want. We can, we can change

00:15:27   it every... we can change it every other week if we want to. We don't care, but we've decided

00:15:32   that we're gonna keep the 3D one. So the idea was it's like the globe is a glass ball kind

00:15:38   of so that the stripes get refracted as they go through them. It's a lot of fun. Really

00:15:42   happy with it. Yep. Someone was very upset with the fact that in an earlier version of

00:15:46   the artwork some of the globe lines, colors lined up with the lines in the background.

00:15:51   Yep. Yeah, and that got changed

00:15:53   It got changed

00:15:56   Steven you like video games, right?

00:15:59   They're fine you do like Lego though

00:16:02   I just

00:16:03   There is absolutely no reason for us to talk about this other than the fact that I want to talk about this and otherwise won't

00:16:08   Get to talk about it

00:16:09   Anyway, Lego is making a Super Mario Nintendo Entertainment System set and it's absolutely incredible

00:16:14   And I'm gonna buy it so fast when it becomes available. Mm-hmm

00:16:19   Mm hmm. Doesn't it look cool?

00:16:22   It looks very, very good.

00:16:23   And there's a crank to play the game on the Lego TV.

00:16:27   Oh, it's Playdate.

00:16:28   Yeah, they copied the crank.

00:16:31   They copied the crank.

00:16:33   Now everyone's doing cranks.

00:16:35   Interesting.

00:16:36   Yeah. Cranks.

00:16:38   Yeah, it looks amazing.

00:16:39   I am going to Wyatt.

00:16:40   It's coming out in August and I'm going to build it

00:16:43   and it will take pride of place in my studio, I think, as a display thing.

00:16:47   It's super cool.

00:16:49   Like, they've gone, I saw somebody say this on Twitter and it's so true, they've really

00:16:53   gone way further with this than they needed to, because they have the TV too with the

00:16:57   little crank on it.

00:16:58   Like, they could have just made the NES and it would have been more than enough.

00:17:02   Would have been fine because the NES has some actual details like the controller that actually

00:17:07   connects to the console and like the cartridges and like, that would have been fine.

00:17:13   And you push the cartridge down and it looks like it has a spring effect to it.

00:17:17   Yeah, but they also made the TV which is just incredible.

00:17:21   And then also if you get one of the new Lego Mario sets which has the Mario in it with

00:17:27   a little CD and the speaker, if you put it on top of the TV and do the crank it will

00:17:31   play the appropriate sound effects for where the Mario is in the little scene that you're

00:17:36   at.

00:17:37   Awesome.

00:17:38   Like super great.

00:17:40   Like super great.

00:17:42   2,600 pieces, $230 or something, which is a pretty decent brick to dollar ratio.

00:17:50   I can't judge, I mean I've got LEGO sets all over my office that cost as much or more.

00:17:56   I think it's really cool and I like that it's interactive.

00:18:00   I really want to hear how this goes and how you feel about it when you get it in.

00:18:03   Oh, it's not available to buy yet, but as soon as it is I will be placed in an order.

00:18:10   I'm super into this. This is like they have found like the real sweet spot for me with

00:18:15   a set like this. It's really cool because like the Lego stuff, the, the, the, the, sorry,

00:18:19   the Lego Mario stuff that they're doing looks cool. But I was a bit like, ah, I was kind

00:18:24   of hoping for something a little bit more model than play set. And they've done exactly

00:18:30   that now. Right? Like when, when, when it was like, Oh, Lego and Mario were doing something

00:18:34   together. I just wanted to build like pretty much exactly what they've given me. Right?

00:18:39   Like I wanted to just make like a classic Mario like scene, right?

00:18:44   Sure.

00:18:44   But instead they've built this like playset thing, which is, which is fine,

00:18:49   but it's, it's not what I wanted, but this NES is like, yes, perfect.

00:18:53   Bravo Nintendo.

00:18:54   Like this is great licensing.

00:18:56   Do we want to take a break?

00:18:57   Mm-hmm.

00:18:58   This episode of Connected is brought to you by Hover, one of the

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00:20:09   Like how I own iOS stories.net.

00:20:12   Exactly.

00:20:13   It's currently being forwarded to Mac stories.

00:20:15   I made that very kind decision recently Federico to forward that one for you.

00:20:20   Originally it was going to my own website for a while.

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00:20:25   That's very kind of you, thank you.

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00:20:47   iOS 13.6, is that it?

00:20:51   It's 13.6.

00:20:52   It's been released today.

00:20:54   Wild, in a way, that there's still releases going while the beta is going for the other

00:20:59   thing.

00:21:00   especially because there's new features being added to iOS at this point.

00:21:02   Today's release basically has a bunch of stuff for Apple News in it.

00:21:08   There's a couple of different features.

00:21:12   One is audio stories, where Apple's going to collect up some stories from large publishers,

00:21:19   have them professionally read, edited, and you'll be able to listen to them instead of reading them.

00:21:24   The other is something which is coming to Apple News and also Apple Podcast.

00:21:30   It's called Apple News Today. Apple's getting into the Daily News Podcast world, which is really interesting.

00:21:39   I need to think more about this because this has only come out today.

00:21:43   We knew that there were going to be the audio stories thing, but the Daily News Podcast that came out,

00:21:53   That was a bit of a surprise to me.

00:21:55   So I want to think about this a little bit more, about what this could mean, maybe what

00:21:59   Apple's motivations are for doing this.

00:22:02   But yeah, this is something that will exist from now, I believe.

00:22:06   So it's a daily 10 minute news podcast from Apple.

00:22:10   And they've got a couple of hosts who they're naming, which is interesting, Sumita Bezu

00:22:17   and Duarte Gildino.

00:22:20   This is, you know, it's in the past, I think there's been criticism of Apple that they

00:22:24   haven't been very good at giving credit for the people that produce their stuff, right?

00:22:30   So like the App Store editorial team are not named, the Apple Music editors are not named.

00:22:39   And of course, Duarte and Shimitar are hosts of a show, right?

00:22:43   So it's like a little bit trickier.

00:22:45   But I'm very pleased that it's not like, "Hey, we're the Apple News Today team and we're

00:22:49   You know what I mean? Which they could have just done that.

00:22:51   They were not supposed to tell you our names.

00:22:53   But you could imagine a world in which they did it that way.

00:22:55   You know, I liked seeing that Serenity Coldwell was named.

00:22:59   She had a personality during the WWDC stuff, which didn't just live in a developer app.

00:23:04   It was on YouTube and stuff like that.

00:23:06   So yeah, this is really interesting.

00:23:09   I'm keen to understand what is the breadth of this?

00:23:15   are they just going to be talking or citing sources that are in Apple News?

00:23:19   Is it just going to be US only kind of content? Will they bring this stuff out to other regions?

00:23:26   Maybe have like a European news team? Like this is yeah there's a lot to think about with this,

00:23:32   but of course the reason it's in the show today is because this finally secures Steven with one of his

00:23:38   yearly picks. That's right the year of Steven continues. It's not the year of Steven. We are

00:23:43   currently tied. Also I'm not sure I want to claim 2020 as the year of Steven honestly. Yeah,

00:23:49   actually you know what? You have it. 2020 is your year baby. No! Yeah, so this is interesting.

00:23:55   There's a lot to unpack here I think. So I was just playing around with the audio player for

00:24:02   the Apple news stories as we were doing the pre-show for current cut pro and it's fine.

00:24:09   It's basically the Apple podcast player with a different background and it lives inside

00:24:13   the news app on 13.6. This is not available in the iOS 14 beta yet, so we have a bit of a

00:24:20   discrepancy there at the moment between the different releases. But there's a new audio

00:24:26   page. It's in the bottom top bar inside news on the iPhone and the player is fine and in a nice

00:24:34   touch, you can, while you're listening to a story, you can long press and the

00:24:39   context menu will give you an option to read the original story instead. So if

00:24:44   you're listening and you feel like "I actually want to read this one", you can jump to

00:24:47   that, to the text version of the story very quickly, so that's nice. But there's,

00:24:51   I mean, we knew this was coming 9 to 5 Mac had the screenshots for this feature

00:24:56   before, it's exactly what you expect. And there's a selection of articles, like I'm

00:25:00   looking right now in news, I have it on my backup phone. And you have stories from all

00:25:08   the usual suspects. So Popular Mechanics, Wired, Vogue, Bloomberg, Businessweek. Yeah.

00:25:15   All of the usual suspects that are left, I guess.

00:25:19   Those that are left, of course. There's actually multiple articles from Bloomberg Businessweek

00:25:24   and some other like a bunch of like Men's Health and what's this one, Runner's World,

00:25:33   so a bunch of fitness publications as well and Wired. So it's fine.

00:25:37   Here's a question. Do you think they would ever read a story that involves Apple?

00:25:47   Yeah I was thinking about that.

00:25:48   From Bloomberg Businessweek.

00:25:49   Yeah, what are the... like, what does the selection of these stories look like from

00:25:56   an editorial standpoint? And honestly, I don't know. I think we've talked about this before

00:26:04   in the context of the Apple News Digest, that is an existing feature of Apple News. And

00:26:10   And I believe that they do cover Apple in the digest section. So yeah, I'm not sure.

00:26:19   I think they're... Now, though, reading them would be slightly awkward. I don't know. I

00:26:27   honestly don't know. So I guess we'll see what this is going to be like. And I mean,

00:26:32   I'm still not paying for Apple News Plus. So I really don't know if like all these stories

00:26:39   will be available to me. I noticed that as soon as I reopened the app, it says "Listen

00:26:45   only in Apple News Plus" and there's a big promo box in the middle of the page that says

00:26:50   "Get Started" and when I reopened the app a splash screen came up as well telling me

00:26:54   to subscribe. But I can listen to the intro post for free News Plus audio at the top of

00:27:00   the window.

00:27:01   Yeah, the hosts both seem to have come from WNYC. I believe they were both a part of a

00:27:07   a show there called The Takeaway, which was a daily national public radio program.

00:27:13   So I was just like, they're both on Twitter.

00:27:15   So I was just kind of like looking at, looking at, looking them up right now.

00:27:19   And it seems that's where they both came from.

00:27:21   So professionals in this industry, like Apple hasn't brought some people from

00:27:26   inside of Apple to do this.

00:27:28   Like they've hired from outside people that do this stuff that read news and have

00:27:33   been doing it for some time, it looks like.

00:27:34   So yeah, I'm intrigued to see how that one shakes out.

00:27:37   Can I tell you about some of the other changes in 13.6?

00:27:41   Yes, please.

00:27:42   Because I have the release notes.

00:27:45   So digital car keys are actually available in 13.6.

00:27:49   No need to wait for iOS 14.

00:27:52   So it's not an iOS 14 feature then?

00:27:55   Yeah, just like the new symptoms in the health app

00:27:58   that they mentioned at WWDC, like new symptoms

00:28:02   for cycle tracking, I believe, and the new ECG integration

00:28:07   in health.

00:28:08   That's available in 13.6, even though Apple mentioned those

00:28:11   as iOS 14 features, but those are actually here today.

00:28:15   And so now you can log symptoms like fever, chills,

00:28:19   sore throat, and coughing.

00:28:21   So those are available in health.

00:28:24   And car keys, you can share them with iCloud.

00:28:27   You can share a digital key over iMessage,

00:28:30   just like Apple showed the WWDC in 14, but that's available in 13.6.

00:28:35   And you can have multiple profiles for multiple drivers,

00:28:39   and you can have restrictions.

00:28:41   So if you want to make sure that your teenager kid does not drive

00:28:46   over a certain distance, I believe you can do that.

00:28:49   So that's pretty cool.

00:28:50   That stuff is really cool, by the way.

00:28:52   It's very cool.

00:28:52   We haven't spoken about it, but all of those features around that car--

00:28:56   when I first heard about that car key thing,

00:28:59   It was kind of like, "Ah, this is going to be like Snoozetown."

00:29:02   But when they were announcing the features, it was kind of like,

00:29:06   "Yeah, you know what? That stuff sounds really good."

00:29:08   It's very clever because you have that family sharing integration

00:29:12   that absolutely makes sense if you're a parent.

00:29:14   And obviously you have maps integration and you can share over iMessage.

00:29:19   It's really well done. I think it's really well done.

00:29:21   Too bad it's limited to a specific BMW model.

00:29:24   For now, obviously.

00:29:27   For now. We're actually looking into renting that car this summer because we want to write

00:29:32   about it. So, which one of you is going to drive around? John is looking into the BMW.

00:29:43   Oh my God. That's genius. That's very funny. Yes. We're looking into that. Also, let me tell you

00:29:50   about some of my favorite bug fixes in 13.6 because there's some really fascinating stuff.

00:29:58   For example, a fix is an issue that causes some phone calls from, and I'm going to try

00:30:07   my best here. I can do this for you if you need, but try it. Saskatchewan? Yeah, you

00:30:15   got it. Saskatchewan. Yeah. Saskatchewan? To appear as originating from the United States.

00:30:21   Now I believe that Saskatchewan is in Canada. Is it in Canada? Yes. Really? Wow. Look at

00:30:29   me. I know geography. Yeah. No, you don't. I listened to one of your many podcasts where

00:30:34   you were very clear about not knowing geography. Why do you need to mention that? What else?

00:30:43   Let's see. There's really nothing else exciting. I just thought that the Saskatchewan one was

00:30:49   really exciting because it's called Saskatchewan.

00:30:51   Well, it also fixes an issue that could cause Japanese hardware keyboards to be incorrectly

00:30:56   mapped as a US keyboard.

00:30:57   Sure.

00:30:58   Is there a US-focused bug issue here, right?

00:31:01   Thanks, California.

00:31:02   Yeah.

00:31:03   Yeah.

00:31:04   Well, I mean, to be fair, America's got more bugs than anybody right now.

00:31:09   Oh my God. What did you do today?

00:31:13   I don't know.

00:31:15   You're very, very on the comedy.

00:31:17   No, I do know. I slept in.

00:31:19   I got more sleep than I do.

00:31:19   Ah, there you go. It made you punchy.

00:31:22   You're like live shows, Steven.

00:31:23   You know what you need?

00:31:25   To relax, listen to some ASMR, and chill,

00:31:29   and then come back and do the show.

00:31:31   Podcast and chill.

00:31:32   Like that.

00:31:35   I think all the Apple news stuff is really cool.

00:31:39   I'm glad they're jumping into the daily podcast move.

00:31:43   I'm glad Iowa's 13.6 is here.

00:31:45   Good breaking news segment.

00:31:46   - I still remain skeptical in the same way

00:31:50   that I was skeptical when Apple first announced

00:31:53   that news initiative that I don't remember

00:31:55   what happened with.

00:31:56   Remember when they, I think they were pledging money

00:31:57   or something.

00:31:58   - Yes, save journalism.

00:32:01   - There is still a part of me that is like,

00:32:04   I don't know how I feel about technology companies,

00:32:07   no matter who they are controlling the news that people see.

00:32:12   And this is an element of them hand picking the news stories

00:32:17   that they want to promote.

00:32:19   And it's coming from Apple.

00:32:22   Now this could be good, this could be bad, I don't know,

00:32:25   but it's still a thing that is happening, right?

00:32:28   Like this is not algorithmically generated,

00:32:31   like there are editors, they are picking this stuff

00:32:34   and then they are filtering it through their own voices in some instances

00:32:39   and delivering it back to you.

00:32:41   And I still feel that it is healthy to pause about that,

00:32:47   just to remember this.

00:32:50   So yeah, I still am keeping what I consider

00:32:54   to be a healthy level of skepticism about this for now.

00:32:59   - I don't disagree.

00:33:00   I think you make a really good point.

00:33:03   It's a bias view and like there is nothing wrong with bias.

00:33:07   Like we all have bias, right? Like I think people that said they don't have bias,

00:33:11   uh, I, I, I question that. Um, maybe that's a bias that I have,

00:33:17   but like we will have our biases. Uh, but yeah, it's like,

00:33:21   you know,

00:33:22   in the same way that you should always think of the fact that whenever we're

00:33:26   talking about stuff, we come from a bias of being fans of Apple products, right?

00:33:31   Like, that's an important thing that you need to know about this show before you start listening

00:33:35   to it.

00:33:37   But we do still question it like I am right now.

00:33:40   Anyway, this is a spider's web to get caught up in.

00:33:43   But it's still just something that I want to mention, I think, whenever I see stuff

00:33:47   like this about Apple and their news initiatives.

00:33:50   Yeah, I mean, I totally relate to this argument.

00:33:54   I mean, I come from a country where, for many years, the Prime Minister was also the owner

00:34:00   of a major TV network. So, you know. You say like, how could it be legal? But the person

00:34:07   who's setting the laws. Well, you know, so, you know, I get it. It can be, it's an awkward

00:34:14   position. I mean, this is obviously different. Apple is no political party, but you got that

00:34:19   conflict of interest going on maybe to an extent. And you got to consider that when

00:34:23   you consume your news from, from Apple news. And I know that they have like, they mentioned,

00:34:29   I believe years ago, that they have like, like it's a separate entity of sorts with

00:34:34   like an editorial board. And this is, I believe they had something years ago in the New York

00:34:42   Times, like there was a story that detailed the structure of the Apple News journalistic

00:34:48   team. So maybe somebody can find it. But yeah, I mean, it's always like right there in the

00:34:54   back of your mind like, "Yeah, isn't it kind of weird though that they're doing

00:34:58   this?" And to an extent I think it is. Just like it would be strange if like

00:35:03   Facebook did it or Google did it, like these giant corporations that wield such

00:35:08   a terrific amount of power, both, you know, culturally and financially, that they

00:35:15   want to do... And politically. And politically that they want to do journalism just

00:35:20   because they can just because like journalism is a feature of their

00:35:23   products it can be a little weird you know maybe you just keep that in mind I

00:35:29   think it is very clear that Apple as a company wants to do everything now right

00:35:37   like like many other technology companies many before this yeah but like

00:35:42   before them right you like your Amazon's and Google's were doing this before and

00:35:47   now Apple are kind of in this space of like if there's a thing we can do we're

00:35:52   gonna do it and there's good and bad in that but they are definitely in that

00:35:59   Wally by and large like mentality right you're everything from Apple they'll

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00:37:47   I had some rough times with Apple Photos

00:37:50   and I just wanted to share it

00:37:51   in case listeners had a similar issue.

00:37:54   So I have a lot of albums.

00:37:55   I'm a big believer in albums and photos.

00:37:58   That's how I organize things.

00:38:00   And as a person with many albums,

00:38:02   I want them sorted alphabetically

00:38:04   so I can get to what I want to quickly.

00:38:07   And they fall out of order sometimes in the Mac Photos app.

00:38:10   It's like sometimes you open it

00:38:12   and there's not in the same order anymore,

00:38:14   but you've always been able to right click on my albums

00:38:17   in the sidebar and re-sort them.

00:38:19   You can sort them by date or by name,

00:38:21   I think some other things.

00:38:22   So I sorted them by name.

00:38:24   The problem I was having is that the order was out of sync

00:38:27   on my iOS devices.

00:38:28   So my Mac would say they're in alphabetical order,

00:38:31   but on my phone and iPad, they weren't.

00:38:34   and the iPhone and iPad were in the same order.

00:38:39   And that was also the order set on iCloud.com

00:38:41   because you can log into iCloud.com

00:38:43   and see your photo library.

00:38:45   Now on iCloud's website,

00:38:47   there's no mechanism to deal with this.

00:38:50   There's no sorting there.

00:38:51   I thought, well, if I could sort them on the iCloud website,

00:38:55   maybe that'll like jumpstart the sync on the iOS devices.

00:38:58   And everything else was still working.

00:38:59   I was still getting photos.

00:39:01   Things were still going the right places.

00:39:03   It was just the order of the albums that was wrong.

00:39:07   And I couldn't do anything on iCloud.com to fix this.

00:39:12   And I was getting ready to do the terrible thing

00:39:14   of like signing out of iCloud Photos

00:39:16   and then signing back in.

00:39:18   And then I thought, well, I could rebuild the library.

00:39:21   Maybe that would fix it.

00:39:23   And you do that by starting Photos,

00:39:25   holding down, I think, Command and Option,

00:39:27   and it rebuilds the library

00:39:29   and makes sure everything's in sync.

00:39:32   That took a little while, I've got over 50,000 items

00:39:35   in my photos library, but it fixed the issue.

00:39:39   And so now I can have everything synced

00:39:41   in the order I want it.

00:39:43   And that really was bugging me, especially on iOS 14,

00:39:46   because now the photo picker isn't just the old list

00:39:51   that it used to be, now you have search

00:39:52   and you have albums in there.

00:39:54   So I really wanna be able to quickly go to an album

00:39:56   and pull out a photo, and they were all out of order

00:39:58   and I can never find anything.

00:39:59   So I'm psyched that this fixed it.

00:40:01   I'm not sure why rebuilding the photo library on the Mac did it, but it was enough, I guess,

00:40:07   to get it syncing again and now things are good.

00:40:10   Mmm.

00:40:11   The end.

00:40:12   Do you guys pick albums users?

00:40:13   No.

00:40:14   No.

00:40:15   Do you have any albums?

00:40:16   Two.

00:40:17   Yes, but mostly because I don't know how to delete them.

00:40:23   I have a selection of shared albums, but I don't count those.

00:40:27   Sure.

00:40:28   But I have one album, which is my wedding photos,

00:40:32   and one album, which is the photo booth

00:40:34   that we had at the wedding.

00:40:35   They're the only two albums that I have.

00:40:37   - And so you just search for anything else?

00:40:39   - Search, yeah.

00:40:40   - Yes, I use search a lot, actually.

00:40:43   Like search by, I really use search by location

00:40:48   and by date, and often by those two things combined.

00:40:53   So like beach, like the location of the beach, 2019.

00:40:56   Like I do that a lot actually, yes.

00:40:58   - I actually more just search by my own eye.

00:41:03   Right, like I know roughly when the photo was

00:41:05   that I'm looking for, and I just scroll

00:41:08   until I know I'm around that area.

00:41:10   That's kind of how I do it.

00:41:12   - Yeah, for recent photos, like for photos

00:41:14   in the last like couple of months, I do that as well.

00:41:17   - Okay.

00:41:17   - But like the other day, for example,

00:41:19   I was looking for a specific video

00:41:21   of one of our dogs swimming at the beach,

00:41:25   and I knew that it was last year,

00:41:27   so I searched by location and time, and it just worked.

00:41:31   So yeah, that search has actually gotten quite,

00:41:35   I don't wanna say great, it's pretty good though.

00:41:39   It's not, I mean, the content stuff

00:41:42   leaves a lot to be desired,

00:41:44   but if you just use those filters,

00:41:46   like date and time, location.

00:41:49   - Do you still have to just search one word at a time?

00:41:51   - No, you can combine them.

00:41:53   Okay. Could you remember when that was a thing?

00:41:55   It was a thing and then they changed it last year.

00:41:57   Last year they changed it with 13.

00:42:00   Tokenized searches.

00:42:01   How many things are in y'all's photo libraries?

00:42:04   How many items?

00:42:05   Oh, I wanna say, let me, 14,000 maybe.

00:42:10   Let's see.

00:42:12   Okay.

00:42:13   No, actually 23,000.

00:42:16   Woof, I'm 12,800 photos, 523 videos.

00:42:21   - Wow, so I'm way ahead of y'all.

00:42:23   Welcome to being a parent, I guess.

00:42:25   But that's interesting, 'cause I find myself searching

00:42:29   more than I used to, but I have trouble letting go

00:42:32   of the album.

00:42:34   And then scrolling through here,

00:42:35   there's probably 100 of 'em, 150 of 'em.

00:42:37   Like, I have a lot of them.

00:42:39   And photos--

00:42:40   - The problem is, when you're an album person,

00:42:42   you can never get away from it.

00:42:44   - That's kinda how I feel.

00:42:45   I feel like I can't ever--

00:42:47   - When you stop.

00:42:48   - Yeah, I'm like in this methodology,

00:42:50   and I can't move out of it.

00:42:52   Like even just using favorites,

00:42:54   I have like two pictures listed as favorites

00:42:56   'cause even that feels too wishy-washy.

00:42:59   - So I used to make albums in iPhoto.

00:43:02   - Sure.

00:43:03   - And I got into that habit and I hated it, right?

00:43:05   Where it was like I'm making them constantly.

00:43:07   And then when they moved from iPhoto to photos,

00:43:10   I just stopped.

00:43:11   It gave me the like the excuse to stop.

00:43:14   So I just stopped.

00:43:15   - Yeah, and mine came from,

00:43:16   I used to have my photo library on Dropbox in subfolders

00:43:19   based on topic. So like what kind of albums do you do, Steven? Like just for special occasions,

00:43:25   like do you actually organize everything? Like even just like random days that you spend at home?

00:43:30   Yeah, I have a smart album that says "not in albums" and there's four photos in it right now

00:43:36   that I need to file. So for instance, I'll just read some. I've got one for my daughter, so it's

00:43:40   pictures of primarily her. I have... So by subject. Okay. It's all by subject. I have Apple Hardware,

00:43:47   which has 1800 pictures. Bikes and cars.

00:43:53   Wow. Bikes and cars? Yeah, yeah, bikes and cars. Interesting. Okay.

00:43:59   I've got one for our old house, just like pictures of the house and house

00:44:03   projects, one for the new house. So you don't do occasions like birthday

00:44:07   parties and like Thanksgiving or something? Like, each

00:44:11   kid has their album and then an album for all

00:44:14   of their birthdays. So it's all like, you know, nine of my

00:44:17   daughter's birthdays in one album. Interesting. And then, you know, like various trips,

00:44:23   one for relay FM live shows, so not an album for individual live shows, but they're all there

00:44:32   together. Yeah. You know, on and on and on. I mean, they just, they never end. And you do this every

00:44:38   day? Like, disorganization? I mean, every once in a while I just sit down and look at the smart album

00:44:44   called Not in Albums and then I put them where they should go. Every photo goes in an album?

00:44:51   Or it's deleted. Wow. Wow. Oh, I lied. By the way, I have one more album, which is... I think

00:45:01   this is very funny. I like to sometimes take pictures of Adina's face way too close.

00:45:14   So like we're standing next to each other, I got my phone out and I just take a picture

00:45:18   which is just way too close and I have all of those photos in an album because it's hilarious

00:45:23   to me to look at these pictures.

00:45:24   That's good.

00:45:25   That's a very good album.

00:45:27   Yep, it's a cool close up.

00:45:30   Of course.

00:45:31   Yes.

00:45:32   Steven that's wild that you do that.

00:45:34   I've got an album for 10 years of Instagram history so Instagram 2011, Instagram 2012,

00:45:40   Instagram 2013.

00:45:41   Wait, what?

00:45:42   Yeah. Hold on. I don't know. I don't understand that. So every photo you post on Instagram

00:45:49   also goes to a fold to an album. Yeah. Photos up. Yeah. I guess. And how does that happen?

00:45:56   Well manually the Instagram app, if you have it, save your photos, makes an Instagram album

00:46:01   at the end of the year. I make an archive of all those posts for the year. And so at

00:46:06   the end of the year I'll make an Instagram 2020 album and put all the

00:46:11   Instagram 2020 images in there. I'm not saying this is like a weird thing to do

00:46:17   I'm sure many people do it I just wasn't expecting that. It's a lot of work it's

00:46:22   not weird it's just a lot of work. Yeah it's a lot of work. I commend your patience

00:46:28   yeah but I feel like I can quickly find things. Oh of course because they're

00:46:33   organized in buckets that make sense to your brain yeah right way if you're like

00:46:38   I want to find a car well you just go to bikes and cars that's right if I want to

00:46:41   look at a at a Hurley bachelor party they're all in there together you know

00:46:47   wait we've only been one oh so you do have events then some if it's like a

00:46:54   true one-off like yes it makes approach yeah find what becomes an album you just

00:47:02   got to feel it. Right. You know it when you see it. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. And would you

00:47:10   say that you have more albums for people or objects in your life? I think it's a pretty

00:47:18   solid mix between people, like types of object, and then events. So like, every fall we go

00:47:29   to this pumpkin patch and so I have one called pumpkin patch and it's you know five or six

00:47:34   years of photos all at the same place so I can very quickly see like my kids get older

00:47:39   every fall. So again it's hard to it's hard to judge where the line is but what if you

00:47:45   had a birthday party at the pumpkin patch then what would you do? I think the birthday

00:47:50   party would override the pumpkin patch. Right okay there's a hierarchy yeah. And I also

00:47:56   have a follow-up question. Does the dog have its own album? She does. Eva Korn dog is her

00:48:03   own album. Perfect. Do you have albums for all of the animals or do some of them get

00:48:11   grouped together? Well there's, oh like previous pets? Yeah. The previous pets I think are

00:48:19   mixed in other places. Is the album called "Previous Pets"? No, I don't. I'm saying I don't have a lot of pictures of them.

00:48:30   Okay, okay. Also, I have another follow-up question. Do you have a photo album for

00:48:35   your enemies? I do. That is called "Max Stories". They're on there. Okay, perfect.

00:48:45   Fantastic, okay. Are there any unexpected albums in there? What do you mean?

00:48:51   Like, do you keep an album of photos which you would consider to be

00:48:56   abnormal to what people would normally put in their photos? Kind of like bikes and cars.

00:49:02   I mean I have a bunch of photos of laptops and computers. There you go, yeah.

00:49:07   So do you have a computer pictures photo album? I have an Apple hardware

00:49:12   album that has pictures of tons of Macs and then I have a non Apple Hardware

00:49:19   album that is a bunch of other stuff. Is it possible for you to find out which

00:49:25   albums you have the most photos in? I bet you can make a serious shortcut for it.

00:49:31   Because I want to know how highly the Apple Photos stacks. It's high. And like

00:49:40   which one of your children you have more pictures of laptops. Maybe I can

00:49:44   eyeball that so Apple hardware has 1742. You have more pictures of Apple

00:49:52   hardware than I do of my wedding. Yeah oh yeah our daughter only has 1022

00:49:57   photos. Stevens is a marriage for life with old Apple hardware. So you

00:50:07   have more pictures of Apple computers than your middle child? Yeah, and

00:50:11   definitely the youngest child, because he has the fewest, because he's lived the

00:50:15   shortest. Look, it's not weird, alright? It's his passion. It's his hobby. So... Do you

00:50:21   have a photo album of Mary? Of course. Do you have more pictures of the

00:50:26   computers than Mary? I don't feel like I have to answer that. That's a yes, Dan.

00:50:31   I really want to see the previous Pat's album.

00:50:34   That's not like I'm obsessed with that album.

00:50:37   Like I need to see it.

00:50:38   I could go through and find all the pictures

00:50:40   of Mary's old cat and put him in there, I guess.

00:50:42   That was a troublesome cat.

00:50:44   Yeah, he was not good.

00:50:45   Photos.

00:50:49   There we go.

00:50:49   Who would've thought?

00:50:51   We learned something new about you, Steven,

00:50:53   in detail also.

00:50:56   So thank you for bringing this to our attention.

00:50:59   I found it interesting.

00:51:00   neither of you asked if I had albums of you.

00:51:02   - Do you?

00:51:03   - Do you?

00:51:04   - There's a mic album.

00:51:05   - There's no Federico album.

00:51:08   - Oh.

00:51:09   - You're mostly confined to the WWDC album.

00:51:11   - I was gonna say, to be fair,

00:51:14   I do see Steven in places other than just events.

00:51:18   - I mean, he's seen me a bunch of times

00:51:20   and he's taken a bunch of pictures of me.

00:51:21   I don't even get my own album, wow.

00:51:23   - Sorry.

00:51:24   - Do you have a Federico face in your faces library?

00:51:26   - Yes, I do.

00:51:27   - Wow.

00:51:28   He has a face and he just couldn't be bothered to set up an album for me, but he does have

00:51:32   bikes and cars and previous pets.

00:51:34   The face is unnamed, like the phoners just realized there's a person and it's just like

00:51:39   whatever.

00:51:40   Just the Italian flag emoji.

00:51:41   Yeah, actually, am I in the enemies album, Steven?

00:51:44   No, it's just Jon.

00:51:47   Yeah, as it should be.

00:51:51   Okay, well, after this disappointing revelation, I feel like we need to move on because I'm

00:51:56   very sad.

00:51:57   I haven't even got an album.

00:52:00   Wow.

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00:53:22   Let's talk about the App Library.

00:53:26   One of the new features that we've all got to grips with

00:53:30   a little bit over the last week or so, as we've been running

00:53:34   Dave Beta since the beginning, and

00:53:38   me and Steven are now on the Betas now too.

00:53:42   I've been running iPadOS Beta since

00:53:46   the day after WWDC or something, but I'm getting used to now

00:53:50   using the App Library.

00:53:54   Federico is the one, the person out of the three of us

00:53:57   who's been using this for about nearly a month, honestly.

00:54:01   What are your main takeaways from the App Library lifestyle?

00:54:06   I've resisted the idea of the App Library for a long time.

00:54:14   I mean, I've only sort of accepted this experiment a few days ago. It's been really challenging

00:54:24   for me, honestly, to let go of the icon grid. And I think, broadly speaking, my main problem

00:54:32   right now is that I'm currently living a home screen crisis. Like, everything is a mess.

00:54:38   And because of widgets and because of the app library and because of all these new features,

00:54:43   I feel like I need to rethink... Well, I have to rethink such a fundamental aspect of how

00:54:49   I use my phone, which is when I go back to the home screen, what do I see? And that's

00:54:55   something that I do hundreds of times a day, and because of widgets, and because of these

00:55:01   new ways of launching and organizing apps, I need to rethink it all. And this takes me...

00:55:07   It's going to take me time, right? It's going to take me a long time to figure out what's

00:55:11   the optimal placement of the widgets that I want to use, which widgets do I want to

00:55:15   use, and also right now I only have Apple widgets. What will happen once third parties

00:55:21   are getting on this action as well? So...

00:55:25   We should be, I mean, for people that are on beta any day now, I would expect, we'll

00:55:30   start seeing the first third party widgets.

00:55:32   Yeah, the app review for TestFlight is, from what I hear, very slow at the moment.

00:55:38   Right.

00:55:39   But usually it happens about this time of year, like beta 3 in late July seems about right for starting to accept.

00:55:48   You've got to assume that this is a time where maybe Apple are looking a little bit more closely at what's being submitted to make sure they haven't made a huge mistake.

00:55:57   Yeah. So basically, my issue is that the App Library requires me to let go of over a decade

00:56:09   of muscle memory in the sense of when I go back to the home screen, I see a grid of icons

00:56:16   across multiple pages. Now, the App Library also takes away control from me, right? Because

00:56:25   of that smart organization that it does, that intelligent organization that it does for

00:56:30   you on your behalf. You don't have to organize it. In fact, you cannot organize it at all.

00:56:36   There's nothing you can do. The App Library surfaces recently used apps and recently added

00:56:42   and then puts everything in these automatic categories, which can be a little hit or miss,

00:56:49   like the type of filing that it does for you. But that's the general idea. And then if you

00:56:54   For one, there's a search bar and you can see a list and you can search manually.

00:56:57   How pointless is that search bar?

00:57:00   Kind of, because you can just swipe down on any...

00:57:03   Yeah.

00:57:04   Well, I guess that it's faster because it's restricted to just showing you apps instead

00:57:09   of other content.

00:57:10   And also there's like a whole discussion about search that we're going to need to have at

00:57:14   some point because it's better and worse than the old search in some key ways for me.

00:57:20   And I'll fire up the teachy-teachers and I'll put that in there.

00:57:24   We'll see, yes. So anyway, right now I'm living a moment of crisis because...

00:57:31   So last night I went in and I knew that we were going to talk about this on the show and so I

00:57:37   figured why not. I removed all my folders, so that's a nice touch because you can long press

00:57:44   on a folder and you can put the entire contents of a folder back into the app library, hiding the

00:57:52   entire folder and the apps inside the folder from the home screen with just one action.

00:57:58   So that's very nice. So I went in and my third and my fourth page, I hid them from the home

00:58:05   screen. So those are now living into the app library. But I still have two pages of icons

00:58:12   and one page of widgets that I need to understand what am I going to do there. So I'm trying

00:58:19   to tackle this by starting with some very specific ideas. And then, the home screen

00:58:28   organization, I think, is going to be a topic that we're going to talk about over and over

00:58:32   over the next few months. But for now...

00:58:34   Yeah, because it's like a completely different thing.

00:58:37   It's a completely different thing. So something that I'm experimenting with at the moment

00:58:40   It's this idea of having these core corners on my home screen, based on activity, if you

00:58:50   wish.

00:58:51   Like, for example, if you wish.

00:58:53   If you wish, yes.

00:58:54   So, on my first page, I'm playing around with this idea of the top section of the home screen.

00:59:02   I can put four icons and a small widget, so the what is 2x2 layout, so a small widget next to it

00:59:12   and that will be like my media corner. So right now, let me look, right now I have music, I have

00:59:18   the App Store, Instagram and Castro, which we'll talk about it at some point, and next to it I have

00:59:26   the Apple Music widget. And then I thought, okay, so that's the media corner. So that's like the spot

00:59:32   on my home screen where anything media-related lives. And then I thought, okay, so this is

00:59:39   obviously like... this corner contains a bunch of actions, a bunch of apps, that I do a lot,

00:59:45   like listening to music, opening the App Store, and, you know, finding a podcast, or browsing

00:59:49   Instagram. And then I thought, okay, what else do I do with my phone a lot? I take a lot of notes,

00:59:55   and I save a lot of links. So I thought, okay, so at the bottom of the page I will have like a

00:59:59   note-taking corner. And so Notes, Raindrop, Tod, your favorite mic, and Safari. So these icons.

01:00:10   And then next to them, a stack of Apple Notes widgets. One of them that opens my... At the moment

01:00:17   I have like this note called Everything Bucket, which is like a note in my eye.

01:00:23   - I'll do for everything.

01:00:24   - It's a note in my iOS review folder

01:00:28   where I can just drop anything that I find,

01:00:31   I will drop in there, screenshots, links, tweets,

01:00:34   like literally anything.

01:00:36   And then later I will organize it

01:00:37   and bring it into my mind map.

01:00:40   And the second one in the stack is my scratch pad.

01:00:44   So I do keep a scratch,

01:00:45   but like a general scratch pad in notes.

01:00:48   So I thought, okay, this could be another corner

01:00:50   for combining icons and widgets, because I don't feel like I want to go all widgets for

01:00:57   my first page of the home screen. I still think I want to have a combination of icons

01:01:02   and widgets. There are some weird limitations, though. You cannot have a small widget surrounded

01:01:12   by two icons. You always need to have four icons in a corner and a small widget in the

01:01:18   other corner. I wish there was a little more flexibility in terms of like the

01:01:22   layouts and the placement of icons, maybe next year, we'll see. And then I thought

01:01:27   okay so now my first page I have these two distinct areas and I feel pretty

01:01:32   good about them so we'll see how it goes. Then I thought okay what do I

01:01:39   want to do for the second page? And right now I'm playing around with this idea of

01:01:43   of, on the second home screen, instead of having more icons, the second page I want

01:01:50   to do just widgets. And so the theme, if you wish, right now for the second page is Glanceable

01:01:56   Life Updates, which is not a great name, but it gives you the idea. So I have the Calendar

01:02:03   widget, the Reminders widget, Weather, and the Batteries widget, which is not great,

01:02:11   but I couldn't figure out anything else that could add that kind of context.

01:02:15   You just put in a mole in there, right?

01:02:17   Yeah, the big calendar layout, the big calendar widget...

01:02:21   No, actually this is the medium one.

01:02:23   So medium calendar, medium reminders, small weather, small batteries.

01:02:27   This is what I'm doing at the moment.

01:02:29   Then I have the third page, and I'm probably going to hide everything here as well.

01:02:35   So realistically I think I'm going to end up with the first home screen,

01:02:39   a second page just with widgets, and then the App Library.

01:02:44   And I'm gonna use this for a while

01:02:46   and I'm gonna see how it works.

01:02:48   Now, this is very temporary because I do believe

01:02:52   that everything is gonna change once third-party developers

01:02:54   can adopt widgets.

01:02:56   Still, in this experimentation phase,

01:02:59   I can tell you a bunch of things that I think,

01:03:02   a bunch of thoughts that I have.

01:03:04   It's gonna be really challenging for me,

01:03:06   about the App Library, it's gonna be really challenging

01:03:07   for me to accept the lack of control. The fact that, like I get it, like a lot of people

01:03:16   could use the automatic organization, and I think it's, you know, I know a lot of folks

01:03:21   like John, for example, a friend of the show, John Voorhis, could use something like the

01:03:26   app library to organize his hundreds and hundreds of apps that he has on his phone. But I'm

01:03:32   the kind of person who likes to control everything, especially on my computer and especially on

01:03:37   my phone, so the inability to say "no, this folder, the way that you name this folder

01:03:43   is not right", I kind of dislike that. And also, my other problem right now, and sure

01:03:50   enough could be just a beta thing and things can change between now and September, I don't

01:03:54   think they will, but they can, there are just some odd limitations with widgets at the moment,

01:04:02   and I wanted to mention three of them, three different widgets.

01:04:05   Files, so the Files widget, which is new in Beta 2, is OK, it shows you your recently

01:04:13   modified, I guess, files.

01:04:17   And it's nice because you can tap on an individual file and it'll open, and it also shows you

01:04:22   the app that opened the file, so like, IARider for example has a little text document in

01:04:28   my files widget, and there's a little IA Writer icon next to it, because it is a

01:04:33   markdown document that I open in IA Writer, so that's nice. But what I really

01:04:37   would like to do with the files widget is just let me create a small widget

01:04:42   that opens as either a specific file or a specific folder in the files app.

01:04:49   That's literally all I want. Like, I want to have a quick, like, bookmark, if you

01:04:54   wish to a folder or a file. That's all I want, and it's not possible right now.

01:05:00   Music, like the Music widget, I really like. I also like in the Medium layout.

01:05:06   In the Small layout it shows you a single item, a single recently played item.

01:05:11   And in the Medium and Big layout, and Large layout, it shows you multiple

01:05:18   recently played items. But I have the same problem with files here. The app defaults to showing you

01:05:27   recently, in this case, played albums or songs, and I just want to be able to go in there and

01:05:34   configure the widget and say "I want to create a widget that opens this playlist" or opens this

01:05:41   his album or opens this section of music. Like, I don't want to be constrained to recently

01:05:49   played by the widgets. Like, let me configure... You have this system that allows me to configure

01:05:56   widgets. Why is this one limited to recently played stuff? Like, there's so much more content

01:06:02   that I could choose from, and it's totally possible to do it. So I honestly don't get

01:06:08   it.

01:06:09   especially the music one, that's where a third party could come in and make something.

01:06:14   Sure, they could do that maybe. And lastly, shortcuts. So shortcuts, I feel like it is a very good widget in the sense that they use...

01:06:25   and I mean it's no surprise because widget configuration is based on the Intents framework, which of course the Siri and shortcuts team are in charge of.

01:06:35   The Shortcuts widget uses configuration to let you pick a folder of shortcuts that you want to display in the widget.

01:06:43   So because of that, you can have multiple Shortcuts widgets on your home screen,

01:06:47   each showing you widgets from a specific folder in the app. So that's very cool.

01:06:53   My main problem with the Shortcuts widget is that it wastes a lot of space.

01:06:59   It has like... you could double the amount of shortcuts you can have in your configuration.

01:07:04   You could honestly double the number of shortcuts because they use these rectangles for individual shortcuts.

01:07:11   And they are quite large.

01:07:14   They're comically large.

01:07:15   They are super big and I feel like if I'm the kind of person who's going to use the shortcuts widget

01:07:22   and is going to configure the shortcuts widget, I probably know what I'm doing and I probably know how to use this one.

01:07:28   and I feel like I don't need the giant top target for, you know... I mean, in the

01:07:34   large version of the widget, you can only see eight shortcuts, and I feel like you

01:07:40   could show 16 or maybe even 20. So I do like everything else about the widget. I

01:07:46   do love the fact that shortcuts from the widget now run with Compact UI, so you

01:07:51   can have interactions on the home screen, including...

01:07:55   Question for you on that.

01:07:56   Yes.

01:07:57   Do some of your widgets load really slowly sometimes?

01:08:00   Yes, yes they do.

01:08:01   Okay, cool.

01:08:02   Not the only one then.

01:08:03   You're not the only one and some of my shortcuts also don't run anymore at all.

01:08:08   And that's to be expected I guess with every new version of shortcuts every summer.

01:08:13   I've had a day today where I've had to start trying to rebuild one.

01:08:17   It was on its last legs anyway, like it was a workflow action, right?

01:08:23   it was, do you remember Federico? You made this one. It was to take, I think it was things,

01:08:34   like basically to take a bunch of text and add them, like it was to basically take a

01:08:39   template set of tasks and add it to things.

01:08:42   That's something I would do, yes.

01:08:45   I was using that widget, well that shortcut still, and it's completely broken now.

01:08:50   That's from like three years ago, I think.

01:08:53   It was a bit ropey, so now I'm rebuilding it with the native actions and going from there.

01:09:01   Yeah, so I think honestly these are some very specific complaints about widgets and maybe

01:09:07   they will get fixed, maybe not.

01:09:09   But I think the bigger picture here is that I'm gonna have a hard time letting go of the

01:09:15   home screen grid because I'm just so used to it and because with icons you can pack

01:09:22   a lot of them on a single page, and with widgets you cannot. On the other hand, I really like

01:09:28   widgets, even though they're not as interactive as I enjoyed, but this is a bigger discussion

01:09:33   for later. I really like widgets, and I really like having these glanceable tiles on my home

01:09:41   screen, and I know I want to use them, and I want to use them a lot, but in using them

01:09:47   a lot, I'm gonna end up with multiple pages anyway. So if I'm gonna have multiple pages on my iPhone,

01:09:54   and because the App Library I can only reach by swiping all the way to the right,

01:10:02   do I even wanna use it? Because it's like counterintuitive in some way, because the App

01:10:10   Library you can only reach if you scroll all the way to the right side of the home screen.

01:10:15   But then if you want to use widgets a lot, the App Library gets more difficult to get to.

01:10:23   And I sort of wish that the App Library replaced the "Today" view on the iPhone,

01:10:32   or I wish that it was easier to access in some other way, because I find myself in the situation

01:10:39   where, OK, I want to use a lot of widgets, but I also want to use the App Library, but then it

01:10:44   feels like I kind of need to choose between the two of them, right? Because if

01:10:48   I want to use a lot of widgets then it takes me like multiple swipes on screen

01:10:52   to open the library and I just wish that it was easier. So, again, I don't know what

01:11:00   to do at the moment. Everything is a mess and I'm playing around with a

01:11:03   bunch of different approaches and I'm not yet sure which one is best for me

01:11:07   but what I do know is that this is very difficult because I'm the kind of nerd

01:11:11   who thinks a lot about home screen layouts, and I need to undo 13-something years of home screen tinkering.

01:11:22   I would have liked App Library to be a swipe up on the home screen.

01:11:27   Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well. Like, make it easier somehow. Use one of the gestures that you're not using on the home screen.

01:11:35   But also, yeah, I guess swipe up on the icons could work.

01:11:40   Because right now--

01:11:41   - Yeah, like in the same way that you swipe down

01:11:43   to get the search. - Down to search,

01:11:44   you could swipe up to, yeah, that could work actually.

01:11:48   - I feel like I know why they put it at the end though.

01:11:50   - Yeah, like conceptually, I can understand

01:11:54   what's the thinking, the ledger there.

01:11:57   But also it takes, like, I don't like swiping

01:12:00   multiple times to open it, you know?

01:12:04   Steven, where are you with this?

01:12:06   - I like the app library,

01:12:08   but I'm not sure it's gonna be

01:12:10   completely game-changing for me.

01:12:12   So all I've really done at this point is

01:12:15   I got rid of all my folders.

01:12:16   So I've had three home screens for a while,

01:12:18   sort of primary apps, secondary apps,

01:12:21   and then a bunch of folders at the end.

01:12:23   All of those folders got removed

01:12:24   and just dumped into the app library.

01:12:27   - Yeah.

01:12:28   - I have widgets on all three of my screens still,

01:12:32   So I kept three screens and I've got widgets

01:12:34   taking up two, like I guess four by two at the top.

01:12:39   Some of them are two widgets,

01:12:41   like I have weather and calendar side by side.

01:12:43   I like Efederico, I'm just waiting for third party widgets

01:12:46   'cause I think it's all temporary until then.

01:12:48   So I've retained the three screens

01:12:50   and getting rid of the folders and adding the widgets,

01:12:52   it basically balanced out where what I have available to me

01:12:56   is roughly the same and things are kind of roughly

01:13:00   in the same place, but it took some fiddling to get there.

01:13:05   I do think App Library is in the wrong place.

01:13:07   I feel like there's a lot of confusion

01:13:10   and like unnecessary complication.

01:13:12   Like why is it not available in the search field

01:13:15   if I pull down, like why is it way over there?

01:13:18   I just don't, I wish they could consolidate

01:13:20   some of that stuff.

01:13:22   - Yeah, that's also true.

01:13:24   It feels like, and especially with search,

01:13:26   it feels like you have the same feature in two places,

01:13:29   but it's slightly different in each instance of it.

01:13:32   Yeah.

01:13:34   So yeah, and also like, oh,

01:13:36   I wanted to mention something else.

01:13:38   Another approach could be

01:13:41   to have an entirely dynamic home screen

01:13:45   in the sense that what you can do

01:13:47   is take the series suggestions widget,

01:13:51   use it in the large configuration.

01:13:54   That widget is gonna show you icons,

01:13:57   like regular app icons, but those icons are chosen by Siri.

01:14:02   So you could have like a quote unquote

01:14:04   intelligent home screen that uses a traditional layout,

01:14:09   but is actually entirely powered by suggestions.

01:14:12   That's also something that you could consider,

01:14:14   or maybe like just one area of a home screen page,

01:14:17   you could have like some static icons

01:14:20   that you manually place, and then the other ones

01:14:23   could just rotate based on Siri suggestions,

01:14:25   and you wouldn't know, because when you place it

01:14:27   the home screen, I believe only the text label of the icons is different when

01:14:33   they are based on the Series Suggestions widget, I think. Like, the text label of

01:14:38   the icon is slightly dimmed when it's from the Series Suggestions widget.

01:14:43   So that's also an approach. Yeah, there's a lot to do here,

01:14:47   and I honestly don't know what it's gonna end up looking like at the

01:14:51   moment. And I can also say that we're gonna talk about it at some point. The

01:14:57   more I spend time on my iPhone configuring things and playing around with different widgets

01:15:03   and the app library, the more it doesn't make any sense to me that you cannot place widgets

01:15:08   anywhere on the iPad home screen. It absolutely makes no sense. Like the app library missing

01:15:14   an iPad, I can sort of maybe make an argument for it, but widgets, no. No, it doesn't make

01:15:20   any sense.

01:15:21   So I immediately got rid of everything.

01:15:27   I have no folders, no second screen.

01:15:30   I have a 4 by 4 grid of apps and then the dock.

01:15:34   And I completely reorganized my home screen.

01:15:38   Nothing is in its original position, really,

01:15:40   for any particular reason anymore.

01:15:42   I've redone it.

01:15:43   I have a widget stack at the top.

01:15:45   And this is just where I'm going to be for now, probably

01:15:48   for the next couple of months.

01:15:49   I plan to like, I want to have a completely different home screen by the time iOS 14 is

01:15:56   shipped.

01:15:57   And I really want to go heavy on widgets because I feel like there's probably of the, I don't

01:16:03   know, of the 16 apps that I have, I reckon maybe five or six of them, I will probably

01:16:09   replace their icons with widgets anyway.

01:16:11   Right?

01:16:12   Like FantasticOwl is going to have a widget, surely.

01:16:15   I won't have the app icon on my screen anymore.

01:16:17   Carrot weather, I won't have the app icon on my screen anymore.

01:16:20   I hope that Google makes one for Google Maps and that's gone.

01:16:24   Like Timery, that will be gone.

01:16:27   So then I will be able to have these applications in a way that makes more sense to me.

01:16:34   Because I'm going to get used to, as I have, scrolling through the stacks.

01:16:38   Trusting that iOS is going to give me what I want sometimes, but other than that I know

01:16:43   it's going to be in one of the stacks.

01:16:45   also like I have been a search to open app person for a long time which is why I was

01:16:50   so happy to get rid of my other screens because nothing had any organization after the first

01:16:56   screen right and like the idea of Apple creating folders for me in the app library I actually

01:17:00   kind of like because now I don't have to think about what folders things go in anymore like

01:17:04   I couldn't stand it and I've been using the app library as well though like I've been

01:17:09   going I have been scrolling over there a lot and I will say I think it's doing a pretty

01:17:14   good job of showing me the applications that I need most of the time. So like when I swipe

01:17:19   over like to get to my bank app, like it's there because I keep swiping over and opening

01:17:24   it. So like you I'm training the system at the same time, right? And so like I think

01:17:30   that's fine. And honestly, like I know what you mean that some of the categorization is

01:17:34   weird. Like that bank app is in the productivity category, which is like not what I would have

01:17:40   done but like I'm not paying attention to the folders that they're in right I'm kind of learning

01:17:46   just learning where they are because really like my folders that I created they started to make

01:17:52   no sense right because I was running out of space so I was just throwing things in like a folder

01:17:58   that only kind of made sense like I had a folder called tools that had just everything like just

01:18:05   anything and everything in it. So I'm kind of happy to get rid of that honestly. And

01:18:11   it's also helping me get rid of some of my applications because I opened those pre-made

01:18:17   folders, and I'm like "what is that app?" and I just delete it. So it's helping me get

01:18:23   rid of some stuff too. So I actually like, the app library is fine, but the main thing

01:18:27   for me was just removing home screen clutter was what I wanted to do the most and that's

01:18:32   where like when I start seeing more widgets, I'm excited to be able to like really get

01:18:37   rid of more and more of that stuff.

01:18:39   It's really difficult.

01:18:40   I might not do the widgets, like might not go as heavy on the widgets thing, right?

01:18:44   Like it might be that I realized that no, I still want my calendar app icon on the home

01:18:49   screen as well as having the widget.

01:18:51   Like I just don't know yet.

01:18:53   But the thing that I'm excited about is the possibility to change it all up.

01:18:57   And I probably will have a second screen that just has widgets on as well.

01:19:02   But that feels better to me than just having more and more app icon screens.

01:19:07   It's very exciting though, imagining this feature where there's so many different widgets

01:19:13   to choose from.

01:19:15   And I know that it's gonna kind of not be that good when certain widgets are gonna lose

01:19:21   some of that functionality that they have right now, like the Timery widget.

01:19:25   I know it's gonna be different and maybe the developer will be able to replicate it in

01:19:30   in some way, even though we already know that certain animations and interactions from the

01:19:37   current widget for Timery will not be possible in iOS 14. But maybe there's a way to mitigate

01:19:42   those with a different design, with a different activation, I don't know. But I think it's

01:19:47   exciting that having these widgets and all the concepts that I've seen on Twitter of

01:19:54   developers working on them, they look beautiful. I don't know if it's because of SwiftUI making

01:19:59   easier for developers to make something that looks pretty and modern. I'm sure

01:20:03   that's part of the part of the equation here. I also think that because it's

01:20:08   because they are kind of have to be simple right because you can't be in

01:20:13   like you can't really make there's no point covering them in buttons yeah I

01:20:17   think it's that's helping a little bit of the design stuff because people are

01:20:21   making things that are just more visual rather than covering the widgets and

01:20:25   buttons. I think too though there'll be an element where we all go widget

01:20:30   bananas and then scale it back. And then bring it back. We're gonna go widget wild for a while.

01:20:37   And then we'll... Widget wild! I guess that's why I'm having a tough time because I'm

01:20:41   like trying to think ahead because I know that I've done this before and I

01:20:45   know that it's not gonna work so it's taking me longer because I'm trying to

01:20:50   to skip that step of, oh, I want to go all in.

01:20:55   And instead, I'm trying to think,

01:20:56   what's a balanced approach?

01:20:59   And that's why I think it's taking me longer,

01:21:01   because I know that I could go all in with the widgets.

01:21:04   And I know that I'm going to hate myself for doing that,

01:21:07   because I cannot let go of icons completely.

01:21:10   I guess that's my issue right now.

01:21:13   And I'm honestly staring at my phone.

01:21:16   I'm not even doing anything, just thinking.

01:21:19   for like longer than it would be acceptable for a normal human being to do.

01:21:24   Like you're sitting on my home screen and thinking without doing nothing.

01:21:28   I think that does it for this week.

01:21:29   I think so.

01:21:31   If you want to find links to stories we spoke about, head on over to the website,

01:21:35   relay.fm/connected/303.

01:21:38   While you're there, there's a lot of fun activities you can take part of.

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01:21:49   version of the show with pre and post show extra content which is a lot of fun

01:21:53   bonus content whoa mm-hmm that rocks me to my core you can find us all on

01:22:03   Twitter Myke is there as I my ke Myke is the co-host of a bunch of great shows

01:22:07   here on relay FM Myke name a podcast you're on the pan addict you did that

01:22:13   last week? Oh, it's probably because it's the one I record before this one.

01:22:19   Analog. Go check out Analog. You can find Federico on Twitter @Vittici.

01:22:26   He is the editor-in-chief of MacStories.net. We didn't get to talk about

01:22:31   Federico's current status of his iOS 14 review, but I assure you it is underway

01:22:36   and coming to us all this fall, which is very exciting. What if he just decided

01:22:41   not to bother this year we'll never know because we didn't talk about it.

01:22:44   Or now he's on the hook because I mentioned it.

01:22:45   Yeah, thank you Stephen, I appreciate it.

01:22:51   You can find me on Twitter as ismh and my writing at 512pixels.net.

01:22:56   I'd like to thank our sponsors this week, Hover, Bombas, and ExpressVPN.

01:23:01   Until next time guys, say goodbye.

01:23:04   Adios.

01:23:05   Cheerio.

01:23:06   Bye y'all.