Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected episode 302.

00:00:11 ◼   ► It's made possible by our sponsors,

00:00:13 ◼   ► Squarespace, Ahrefs, and Mint Mobile.

00:00:16 ◼   ► My name is Steven Hackett and it is an even episode,

00:00:19 ◼   ► so I will introduce Federica Vatici first.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Oh, that's a good joke.

00:00:29 ◼   ► No, I don't think this is fair, you know, because I am almost convinced that if I wasn't here, you wouldn't do that.

00:00:36 ◼   ► You wouldn't give me my intro.

00:00:38 ◼   ► You would just go straight to Federico and then make some joke about, "Ah, Myke's not here." Right?

00:00:44 ◼   ► But you still give Federico his introduction.

00:00:46 ◼   ► Oh, he's off on the summer fun. The Federico summer fun.

00:00:49 ◼   ► [music]

00:00:54 ◼   ► This is yet another slight upon me and the royal household of keynote chairmanship.

00:01:00 ◼   ► The house that I founded.

00:01:01 ◼   ► No, but that's not true.

00:01:03 ◼   ► History.

00:01:04 ◼   ► You just had the Twitter account first.

00:01:06 ◼   ► Yeah, that's the royal scepter.

00:01:07 ◼   ► No.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Don't you know anything about the monarchy?

00:01:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Yes, I do.

00:01:13 ◼   ► And that's not how it works because our monarchy currently has social media accounts.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Are you saying that there was no monarchy before like the early 2000s?

00:01:24 ◼   ► There's no proof of monarchy before then.

00:01:28 ◼   ► Twitter is your proof.

00:01:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:30 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:31 ◼   ► No one can delete tweets.

00:01:32 ◼   ► Hi.

00:01:33 ◼   ► Hi, Myke.

00:01:34 ◼   ► Hello.

00:01:35 ◼   ► Hi.

00:01:36 ◼   ► Hello.

00:01:37 ◼   ► It's just us.

00:01:38 ◼   ► And so we're gonna talk about the Mac.

00:01:39 ◼   ► We are, actually.

00:01:40 ◼   ► There are rumors that Steven said to Federica that we were recording on Thursday this week.

00:01:47 ◼   ► So he'd have his time to talk about the Macintosh, but we'll never know for sure.

00:01:51 ◼   ► Well, if an episode comes out tomorrow that's just Federico wandering around about shortcuts,

00:01:57 ◼   ► you know what happened.

00:01:58 ◼   ► I don't think Federico has a login to the CMS.

00:02:01 ◼   ► I should probably make sure he doesn't.

00:02:02 ◼   ► I think he has one, but probably doesn't know he has one would be my expectation.

00:02:08 ◼   ► That's how I am at Mac Stories.

00:02:09 ◼   ► I can log into Mac Stories and I'm very afraid to do so.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Do I have... no I used to have access to your website, I don't think I do anymore.

00:02:18 ◼   ► You don't anymore.

00:02:19 ◼   ► I did some cleaning up and you were banished.

00:02:21 ◼   ► That's not fair.

00:02:22 ◼   ► Want to do some follow up?

00:02:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:25 ◼   ► Tell us about Dev Beta 2 for iOS.

00:02:28 ◼   ► It's out, I only have it on my iPad right now.

00:02:33 ◼   ► There doesn't really seem to have been huge changes, just like a lot of tweaks.

00:02:39 ◼   ► I don't know if really we're expecting big changes.

00:02:43 ◼   ► They've added some new features, some new widgets,

00:02:46 ◼   ► some little bits and bobs here and there.

00:02:48 ◼   ► Some stuff's been cleaned up.

00:02:50 ◼   ► I'm kind of waiting to see if some of the bugs

00:02:53 ◼   ► that I've been experiencing have been fixed,

00:02:56 ◼   ► but I have not yet re-encounted them, if you know what I mean.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Like, one that I was having was, like,

00:03:01 ◼   ► the shortcuts widget was just becoming completely unresponsive,

00:03:05 ◼   ► and I had to reboot my device to get it to work.

00:03:07 ◼   ► So I'm just kind of waiting to see if that sort of stuff kind of fixes has been fixed or fixes itself

00:03:14 ◼   ► But as of right now, I don't know but the the I'm pleased to see that the second beta is here

00:03:20 ◼   ► Because it means that Apple will kind of keep in typical pace. I would expect

00:03:25 ◼   ► from

00:03:27 ◼   ► From what we would usually think they would be doing at this time of year like having you know, what are we two weeks now?

00:03:33 ◼   ► So in two weeks, yeah

00:03:36 ◼   ► Yeah. Sure. Yeah. So we got that. There's a couple of icon changes, a couple of widget

00:03:42 ◼   ► changes. That's by and large it. Also there's some stuff like the proof of the default music

00:03:51 ◼   ► service change showed up for HomePod, but you can't actually do it, right? Because I

00:03:55 ◼   ► think that's going to require an entitlement like email apps and stuff like that. I don't

00:04:00 ◼   ► think anything can say it's the default music service. Apple probably have to, you know,

00:04:06 ◼   ► yeah you're good. So you know there's stuff but there's nothing wild.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Dev beta 2 is also out for Mac OS Big Sur and it's pretty much the same deal no real

00:04:18 ◼   ► big changes there's some new stuff in catalyst Apple pay can be used in

00:04:22 ◼   ► catalyst apps which is cool and the terrible battery artwork is still in

00:04:26 ◼   ► system preferences which makes me sad. How does the Apple pay thing work what

00:04:30 ◼   ► is it doing is it the Apple watch thing or touch ID? Yes yeah so it acts just

00:04:34 ◼   ► just like it would in a AppKit app.

00:04:37 ◼   ► - Okay, well that's nice.

00:04:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's pretty cool.

00:04:41 ◼   ► And the battery icon is real bad in System Preferences

00:04:43 ◼   ► and they should fix it, they should change it.

00:04:46 ◼   ► - I feel like that one will be changed

00:04:48 ◼   ► because it's been memed, you know?

00:04:50 ◼   ► Like it's like people,

00:04:52 ◼   ► we're gonna talk about some questionable icons

00:04:56 ◼   ► in Big Sur a little later on in this episode, I think.

00:04:58 ◼   ► I have some that I wanted to bring to the table.

00:05:02 ◼   ► Some people were saying that the install process for Beta 2

00:05:07 ◼   ► on the Mac was pretty rough.

00:05:08 ◼   ► I had issues with it.

00:05:09 ◼   ► I had to reinstall the Beta profile,

00:05:12 ◼   ► then restart the Mac and it finally saw the update.

00:05:15 ◼   ► That's not that uncommon during these Beta cycles.

00:05:19 ◼   ► I've definitely seen that in previous years.

00:05:21 ◼   ► And so I don't think that's anything to be worked up about.

00:05:24 ◼   ► It's just, look, you're running a Beta version.

00:05:27 ◼   ► You're gonna have weirdness.

00:05:29 ◼   ► I do wanna talk about where we're running the Beta.

00:05:31 ◼   ► So you said you had it on iOS 14 on your iPad. Are you doing anything else?

00:05:36 ◼   ► I well, okay, we're gonna talk about later on but I have been running big sir on a laptop and I

00:05:44 ◼   ► I'm really like

00:05:48 ◼   ► Flirting with putting it on my phone

00:05:52 ◼   ► Mm-hmm, but I have not yet made the final decision

00:05:56 ◼   ► Like I had said that I would not do it until beta 2 now beta 2 is here and

00:06:03 ◼   ► I want to but there's a couple of apps

00:06:07 ◼   ► that will be

00:06:10 ◼   ► That I know we're gonna be a problem

00:06:13 ◼   ► Like one of my banking apps on my iPad is convinced that I have jailbroken my phone

00:06:20 ◼   ► And I'm not allowed to use it

00:06:22 ◼   ► And I typically check this stuff on my phone

00:06:26 ◼   ► So I'm kind of giving it a day or two to see if they will

00:06:30 ◼   ► make an update to prepare for the public beta right because

00:06:35 ◼   ► I'm sure that they're aware of this kind of stuff and can do so

00:06:39 ◼   ► I'm assuming that it's doing some kind of like version number check

00:06:43 ◼   ► It's got something and and it's seeing that it's not you know, and because it's not even like oh we don't support this thing

00:06:49 ◼   ► It's like no you have you have jailbroken your device and it's like, okay

00:06:52 ◼   ► that's you're making some some big assumptions here my friend so I'm kind

00:06:58 ◼   ► of waiting to see if that will be fixed so maybe I give it a day or two but if I

00:07:01 ◼   ► do I'm gonna go with the dev beta because I want all of my devices my iOS

00:07:06 ◼   ► devices to be on the same release if I'm gonna run it I'm still planning to not

00:07:13 ◼   ► put it on my 12.9 inch iPad until maybe four three or four so I have one device

00:07:21 ◼   ► that I can count on and frankly the most important device for me at the moment is

00:07:26 ◼   ► that one it's where I'm spending the majority of my time doing anything work

00:07:30 ◼   ► related because the typical reasons that I wouldn't put the beta on my phone just

00:07:35 ◼   ► don't count at the moment so I'm kind of I'm kind of fine I'm kind of fun with it

00:07:40 ◼   ► so maybe maybe you're gonna because I know you are a public beta boy what are

00:07:50 ◼   ► gonna put it on when that comes out? Everything? So I have the dev beta on my iPad mini and I have

00:07:56 ◼   ► the dev bet dev beta of Mac OS on my iPad. Dave beta? Dave beta. He's a nice guy but he always

00:08:04 ◼   ► is early to parties. And he trips over a lot. And crashes into everything. Sometimes he just

00:08:15 ◼   ► freezes mid-step. I like that. He falls asleep just randomly. Everyone's so excited to see

00:08:23 ◼   ► him when he arrives at the party, but then he just messes everything up and isn't very

00:08:29 ◼   ► supportive. This is a fun, this is a new breakout character with the program. Dave Beta. He

00:08:37 ◼   ► leave widgets everywhere behind me. So I generally put the public beta on my iPhone, running the Dave

00:08:46 ◼   ► betas everywhere else. I'm probably going to put this on my phone pretty soon. Like straight away?

00:08:53 ◼   ► Like during the show? No, no. Like if they release the public beta like on Thursday or whatever.

00:08:59 ◼   ► Yeah, probably. You reckon I'll go for it? I think so. So I'm the same where you are. I'm

00:09:02 ◼   ► I'm not going anywhere.

00:09:04 ◼   ► The bank app that I need for work works on my iPad in iOS 14, so I feel like it would

00:09:09 ◼   ► work on my phone.

00:09:10 ◼   ► And I'll probably keep my iPad Pro on 13 anyways, just to have an out if I really run into something

00:09:18 ◼   ► completely broken.

00:09:19 ◼   ► Yeah, the one thing I do worry about is like, I mean, and this is the issue, I mean, I'm

00:09:24 ◼   ► already in this problem by having put it on any device is like the problems that fell

00:09:32 ◼   ► Rico had of iCloud. Remember when his iCloud just like exploded and nothing would sync

00:09:39 ◼   ► and he had to have like a reset or something done at some point? Like that's the kind of

00:09:45 ◼   ► stuff that I worry about when doing any of this stuff but I guess if I've installed it

00:09:50 ◼   ► on any device well it's too late I guess. I can see that. I think that's a common feeling.

00:09:58 ◼   ► And I don't really want to be in that boat, but it's too late now anyway.

00:10:02 ◼   ► I guess. Yeah, it's got to go all in. Uh huh.

00:10:05 ◼   ► Do you find yourself on your iOS 13 iPad missing something in 14?

00:10:12 ◼   ► The way that shortcuts work now, I like that a lot.

00:10:15 ◼   ► And the way that I've got my shortcuts widget set up, all of that stuff I like.

00:10:20 ◼   ► I have like multiple shortcuts, widgets stacked on top of each other,

00:10:24 ◼   ► and they do different actions. A lot of them are time tracking.

00:10:27 ◼   ► I like that and I built some task manager shortcuts where you can just type

00:10:34 ◼   ► everything in from search basically right you just run the shortcut from

00:10:38 ◼   ► search type everything in and nothing ever opens nothing you know I like all

00:10:44 ◼   ► of that kind of stuff shortcuts I think it is the biggest thing that I've been

00:10:47 ◼   ► enjoying and there's you know some of the UI stuff is nice I do really like

00:10:53 ◼   ► the new search UI, like it just looks nice. I like, just conceptually that it doesn't

00:10:58 ◼   ► take over the screen visually, I like that. Like, I enjoy that. And so like, it's not

00:11:05 ◼   ► that I'm less effective because of that, or like all these features have become so important

00:11:12 ◼   ► that now I miss them when they're gone, or like I can't work when they're gone, but they

00:11:15 ◼   ► are like things that I do miss.

00:11:18 ◼   ► I've had that a little bit on Big Sur.

00:11:23 ◼   ► I think because of the UI changers we're going to talk about, it's like, "Oh, Catalina looks

00:11:29 ◼   ► really old."

00:11:30 ◼   ► And I'd love to have the new messages on the Mac that I work on every day, because the

00:11:35 ◼   ► new messages on Big Sur is really nice.

00:11:37 ◼   ► But as the case across the board, though, the new messages is very good.

00:11:41 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I love the new stuff for group chats, and having the favorites pinned at the top

00:11:48 ◼   ► is awesome. That may be enough to get me on my phone. You want to take a break? Yeah.

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00:13:28 ◼   ► Squarespace make your next move make your next website breaking news Myke

00:13:34 ◼   ► mmm

00:13:36 ◼   ► Apple has added two-factor authentication for Apple IDs that are now based in Antarctica

00:13:43 ◼   ► chilling news

00:13:45 ◼   ► Nice, is that the other issue?

00:13:47 ◼   ► Okay, do you have anything of note to say on this I don't know how many people are in Antarctica

00:13:55 ◼   ► But they got Apple IDs. They got a login to securely how many people are now?

00:14:00 ◼   ► That's the question. We need to know how many

00:14:03 ◼   ► in Antarctica. No permanent residence. The largest station has a summer population of

00:14:11 ◼   ► a thousand and a winter population of 200. So it can't be a lot of people. The best case

00:14:21 ◼   ► of time, maybe like a couple of thousand people or whatever, I suppose.

00:14:25 ◼   ► I knew someone who worked at a science station in Antarctica for like a year. I think she

00:14:29 ◼   ► was down there a year.

00:14:30 ◼   ► Really?

00:14:31 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:14:32 ◼   ► it down or up? I don't think we have to address that. I mean it depends, if the earth is flat

00:14:37 ◼   ► then I guess it's over wherever you want it to be. On the outside edge. Let's talk about

00:14:44 ◼   ► the iPhone 12 again. I have some more stuff about the charger and things like that but

00:14:51 ◼   ► also just... Are we going to throw some ice on that rumor? I'm gone. If I quit now, you

00:15:00 ◼   ► You have to do the episode on your own.

00:15:02 ◼   ► No one wants that.

00:15:04 ◼   ► So let's stop, shall we?

00:15:06 ◼   ► Okay.

00:15:07 ◼   ► No more jokes.

00:15:08 ◼   ► Myke, I know you're still there.

00:15:11 ◼   ► I can see you on Skype.

00:15:16 ◼   ► Now you have to do this part, because I'm done.

00:15:20 ◼   ► The whole show?

00:15:21 ◼   ► I don't know, maybe.

00:15:22 ◼   ► I'll see when I want to come back.

00:15:23 ◼   ► I have a lot of talking to do in a little while about boot processes on Mac OS X.

00:15:27 ◼   ► Well, there you go.

00:15:28 ◼   ► Mac OS 11, excuse me.

00:15:29 ◼   ► iPhone 12. Let's start with chargers. Apple is surveying iPhone owners about their thoughts

00:15:37 ◼   ► on iPhone chargers, which is hilarious.

00:15:39 ◼   ► Yeah, my kind of feeling on this is like, there's a survey for everything. And you know

00:15:46 ◼   ► what I mean? Like, I'm sure that there are surveys about like, do you like the antenna

00:15:53 ◼   ► lines on your iPhone? You know what I mean? Like, it could be about anything, but they

00:15:56 ◼   ► They become newsworthy when you can tie it back to a potential headline.

00:16:02 ◼   ► But nevertheless, Apple does want to know if people like their war charger and/or still

00:16:07 ◼   ► have it.

00:16:11 ◼   ► So maybe they, you know, they want data.

00:16:12 ◼   ► Apple always want data so they can make the decisions that they make, right?

00:16:15 ◼   ► That's the thing.

00:16:17 ◼   ► But I saw a CAD leak.

00:16:21 ◼   ► I guess it's a leak.

00:16:23 ◼   ► Somebody had an image of the box insert for the iPhone 12 that seems to suggest there

00:16:28 ◼   ► will be no charging brick.

00:16:30 ◼   ► I saw this on MacRumors.

00:16:32 ◼   ► But the thing that is included in this CAD image is two little pockets, I guess, or two

00:16:39 ◼   ► little recesses.

00:16:41 ◼   ► One where the paperwork would go, so also no headphones.

00:16:45 ◼   ► Which I think is, you know, honestly that's the one that no one's complaining about, right?

00:16:49 ◼   ► The headphones thing.

00:16:52 ◼   ► is complaining about a lack of lightning headphones. Okay, so when I say nobody, I mean typically

00:16:57 ◼   ► about the conversation around there being no headphones and no charger with the iPhone

00:17:02 ◼   ► 12, people are focusing on the charger because that's probably the thing that affects most

00:17:07 ◼   ► people, right? If people definitely affected. But the other kind of recess is for a cable,

00:17:16 ◼   ► Presumably a USB-C to lightning cable.

00:17:20 ◼   ► Now I don't know about you, but when we were originally talking last time about there being

00:17:25 ◼   ► no charger, I also thought there would be no cable in the box.

00:17:30 ◼   ► Did you assume that there would be a cable in the box?

00:17:32 ◼   ► I didn't even think about the cable, to be honest.

00:17:35 ◼   ► So when people were saying there's no charger, my initial thought was like, no cable, no

00:17:41 ◼   ► brick, no power brick.

00:17:44 ◼   ► Because from my perspective, including a cable probably still makes it better for more people.

00:17:52 ◼   ► Just not having the charging brick itself is like, yeah, it's going to affect some people,

00:17:58 ◼   ► but I would expect that lots of people would have a USB-C charging brick of some kind at

00:18:06 ◼   ► home.

00:18:07 ◼   ► Now, of course, if we were still on regular USB, I actually don't think that this would

00:18:11 ◼   ► be a non-issue in my opinion.

00:18:13 ◼   ► who doesn't have something that they can plug a USB cable into at home and charge, right?

00:18:19 ◼   ► If you had any phone. But now, if you're switching from a modern Android phone, then you would

00:18:25 ◼   ► be fine, right? Because you'd have a USB-C cable you could plug into your previous brick

00:18:30 ◼   ► and charge. And also, we had a few people reach out and be like, "Oh, I know people

00:18:35 ◼   ► whose chargers are falling apart and they need a new charger." They probably just need

00:18:39 ◼   ► a new cable. I don't think that many people were having their charging bricks falling

00:18:45 ◼   ► apart. I know for me, all of the wear that I have is on the cables, not the actual charging

00:18:52 ◼   ► bricks themselves. So I think that this, whilst this doesn't eliminate the issue, I think

00:18:57 ◼   ► it actually makes the affected group much smaller than I had initially expected it would

00:19:02 ◼   ► be and also makes this in my opinion an easier and cheaper thing for Apple to offer that

00:19:10 ◼   ► brick to you at checkout because they sell the brick and the cable as separate things

00:19:14 ◼   ► right and I have absolutely no doubt that they could sell a discounted charging brick

00:19:19 ◼   ► one of the weak ones to you for a small price on the first checkout like you get a discount

00:19:25 ◼   ► one time like that seems like a very simple thing for them to be able to do.

00:19:32 ◼   ► Yeah I think what we talked about of having it just there, like you want AppleCare? You

00:19:37 ◼   ► want a charger? Like all that stuff in line means people will just do it if they need

00:19:40 ◼   ► a new one. I do wonder about the USB-C versus USB-A thing if there is a cable, I just don't

00:19:48 ◼   ► know. I don't know.

00:19:49 ◼   ► Well I'm just like more people have USB-A chargers than they do USB-C chargers, like

00:19:55 ◼   ► especially if you're coming from an older iPhone.

00:19:58 ◼   ► more people charge I think with a wall charger or something than plugging into

00:20:02 ◼   ► a computer. It could be that USB-A sticks around in charger land longer than it

00:20:06 ◼   ► has elsewhere. You know if you buy a keyboard or a mouse from Apple you get a

00:20:10 ◼   ► lightning cable. My Mac Pro came with a USB-C to lightning cable. It's black and

00:20:16 ◼   ► braided and very awesome, but it's kind of all over the place and I don't know.

00:20:21 ◼   ► and my my hunch is that it will be cable USB a no charging brick I think that's

00:20:30 ◼   ► my final answer for now cable USB a no charging brick mm-hmm so the only change

00:20:37 ◼   ► is no charger brick oh okay wait so you if you think you're so did the iPhone 12

00:20:44 ◼   ► come with a USB a charger the 11 you mean yes yes I think it did maybe the

00:20:51 ◼   ► chat room can help us chat room what does the iPhone come with the iPhone 11

00:20:56 ◼   ► pro what does it come with pros as USB C Kyle's is USB C huh okay well then that

00:21:02 ◼   ► then whatever it comes with now oh the iPhone 11 comes with USB a oh that's

00:21:06 ◼   ► confusing whatever it comes with now yeah no I reckon they will go all USB C

00:21:12 ◼   ► because they just will. USB-C cables in the box you get one-time cheap purchase

00:21:20 ◼   ► of a brick and that's that. That's what I reckon they'll do. Okay so it seems like

00:21:25 ◼   ► the iPhone pros come with USB-C to Lightning and everything else comes with

00:21:30 ◼   ► USB-A to Lightning. Okay maybe I was confused because I just unboxed my

00:21:33 ◼   ► wife's iPhone SE and it had a USB-A to Lightning cable. Right. But that phone is

00:21:37 ◼   ► old. Okay, so anyways, charger gate is coming for us all. Be prepared.

00:21:43 ◼   ► Rumor has it already that Samsung will skip it next year 2021. Mm-hmm. They will

00:21:50 ◼   ► be not putting chargers in their boxes too. Yeah, I saw a headline that I just want to

00:21:55 ◼   ► read. Samsung to follow Apple and stop offering power dowsers smartphones next

00:22:00 ◼   ► year. Like, we don't have to say Samsung's copying Apple every decision they make.

00:22:06 ◼   ► Just cool it, Apple journalist.

00:22:10 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like because what is, I mean if that is the case, like what are they even,

00:22:15 ◼   ► like cop, there's no copying because Apple actually haven't done this yet.

00:22:19 ◼   ► It's a rumor, but fine.

00:22:22 ◼   ► I mean, you know, I wouldn't, honestly like so Samsung unpacked is in a couple of weeks

00:22:27 ◼   ► time, it's like in August.

00:22:30 ◼   ► They look like they're gonna have a pretty sweet bronze color for the note, which looks

00:22:36 ◼   ► kind of nice. I genuinely expect to hear someone from Samsung say that there's a charger in

00:22:43 ◼   ► the box for the fun because they love to take those shots where they can.

00:22:49 ◼   ► It's going to be the new headphone jack.

00:22:51 ◼   ► Yeah, because they did that. They were like, "Oh, we have a headphone jack!" Same as Google

00:22:54 ◼   ► did it too. And then both of those companies the next year removed their headphone jacks.

00:22:59 ◼   ► And again, I don't think that all of this stuff is copying. I think a lot of it is just

00:23:03 ◼   ► like this is the way it goes. And Apple, for whatever reason, on occasion is first, but

00:23:12 ◼   ► it's not the case always, right? Samsung made big phones before anybody else.

00:23:19 ◼   ► Yes, they did.

00:23:20 ◼   ► Eventually everyone got there, you know? But yeah, I mean, look, I think that the reasons

00:23:26 ◼   ► that we spoke about last week, the positives for removing these charges from boxes, both

00:23:34 ◼   ► economically for companies involved and environmentally. I think that's the reason that we'll see it

00:23:41 ◼   ► happen and we'll be totally fine and this will be something that everybody gets used

00:23:46 ◼   ► to way easier than like a cable transition. I really do believe that because this is a

00:23:54 ◼   ► much simpler thing to deal with, right? Then if they change cable, that is a big pain,

00:24:01 ◼   ► right? Well, when they did it from proprietary to proprietary, right? Like going from 30

00:24:06 ◼   ► pin to lightning. That's because there's this big ecosystem of stuff and you've got to change

00:24:11 ◼   ► all your cables and maybe you have peripherals that don't work anymore. But this is just

00:24:15 ◼   ► like you have a charger that will already work with this probably at home. And if you

00:24:20 ◼   ► don't, there's like a million options that are all actually really good and much cheaper

00:24:24 ◼   ► to get and you actually have more choice available to you because you can get like those wild

00:24:29 ◼   ► fancy fast charging ones now that have got that GaN in them or something. What is that?

00:24:34 ◼   ► G A A N or something? What is that? Yeah, I don't know. So you can get those or you

00:24:40 ◼   ► can get like an Amazon basics USB charger, right? And you end up like you've got there's

00:24:45 ◼   ► like a full spectrum. I think that this one is like there are more there's more upside

00:24:49 ◼   ► to this if as long as they actually do have something for people to be able to get themselves

00:24:55 ◼   ► a charger for cheap. But anyway, while we're talking about the iPhone 12, it's about the

00:25:00 ◼   ► time of year where dummy units start appearing in photos and on YouTube channels. It's like

00:25:07 ◼   ► MKBHD just had a video with some dummy units. These dummy units come from case manufacturers.

00:25:15 ◼   ► case manufacturers pay a lot of money to the supply chain to try and get specifications

00:25:23 ◼   ► for the sizes of the phones. They want the size of the bodies and the size of the camera

00:25:28 ◼   ► notches where the buttons are, all that kind of stuff, right? Because then they can start

00:25:33 ◼   ► making their cases so they can be ready to sell their cases when the phone is available.

00:25:37 ◼   ► It's very important, right, if you're a case manufacturer. It does make me think that Apple

00:25:42 ◼   ► should have some partnerships. I think maybe they do with Logitech now, but I think maybe

00:25:50 ◼   ► they do with AutoBox as well. But it would be nice if there were options on day one that

00:25:55 ◼   ► weren't just Apple's options. They do it for the iPad. I don't know if they do that for

00:26:00 ◼   ► the iPhone, but they should, I think. Carl's is saying, Le Gray in the chat is saying Belkin

00:26:06 ◼   ► as well. So it's good to have those options. So these devices are then created from the

00:26:16 ◼   ► CAD drawings and from the specifications, I don't know, so they can be sent out to people

00:26:21 ◼   ► and also you can actually see does this case fit. So it seems like typically there would

00:26:28 ◼   ► be a lot of things not final in these because, for example, you don't need to know how many

00:26:33 ◼   ► cameras there are on the phone you just need to know the size of the notch so like the

00:26:37 ◼   ► the the dummy that MKBHD has only has three cameras on it when that seems unlikely right

00:26:42 ◼   ► like it really seems likely that we'll get three cameras on the lidar sensor because I think it

00:26:48 ◼   ► would be very peculiar if they did not have the lidar sensor on the phone I can't imagine them

00:26:53 ◼   ► getting rid of a camera the and it's also showing no change to the notch size now we don't know if

00:26:59 ◼   ► if that's going to happen. There's been rumors on both sides on this, but basically the notch

00:27:05 ◼   ► sizing on these devices, it makes no difference about the size of them because it's not what

00:27:10 ◼   ► cases cover. Now I will say just on the conversation of cases, so what these devices show is the

00:27:18 ◼   ► flat sides, the iPad Pro-like design. I think I would struggle with putting a case on that

00:27:24 ◼   ► this time because that design looks very modern and cool and nice and I don't know if I'd

00:27:31 ◼   ► want to put a case on that phone straight away at least.

00:27:34 ◼   ► And it should be less slippery than the rounded edges.

00:27:37 ◼   ► Maybe, I mean, my problem is not that like phones slip out of my hand, my problem is

00:27:44 ◼   ► I drop them and I don't think that that's a slippery problem, you know?

00:27:48 ◼   ► I think I just picked them up wrong or I just don't grip them right or I'm not paying attention

00:27:53 ◼   ► and I dropped them. I think that's my problem.

00:27:55 ◼   ► Holding it wrong.

00:27:56 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe I'm holding it wrong.

00:27:59 ◼   ► But what I wanted to talk about as well is the sizing options of these phones.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Because there's some nuance here that people may not have got from just watching that video

00:28:12 ◼   ► that I had to do some digging into to kind of really get my head around.

00:28:16 ◼   ► Marques has three devices, right?

00:28:19 ◼   ► But the rumors have been that there would be four phones this year.

00:28:24 ◼   ► The reason for this is that the rumors are suggesting that there will be four phones

00:28:30 ◼   ► in three sizes.

00:28:32 ◼   ► So the iPhone 12 will be 5.4 inches.

00:28:36 ◼   ► We'll come back to that.

00:28:37 ◼   ► The iPhone 12 Max, which would be new, would be 6.1 inches.

00:28:43 ◼   ► The iPhone 12 Pro would be 6.1 inches.

00:28:47 ◼   ► the iPhone 12 Pro Max will be 6.7 inches. So, yeah, I will put a link in the show notes

00:28:56 ◼   ► to a MacRumors article where they have an image showing kind of the physical sizing

00:29:04 ◼   ► of this lineup of phones compared to stuff that we currently have because it's a little

00:29:08 ◼   ► tricky to get your head around this and what it might mean because like screen sizes don't

00:29:15 ◼   ► necessarily equate to physical phone sizes depending on the model that you're looking

00:29:19 ◼   ► at right because the small phone again so this is be something new the iphone 11 which

00:29:27 ◼   ► is the entry model sits in the middle size wise between the two pro models yeah it's

00:29:33 ◼   ► which is weird yes that's how it is but that's just because that was what the 10r was right

00:29:39 ◼   ► like it just took that spot but this time that would change and you would get

00:29:45 ◼   ► smallest to be the 12 the 12 max and the 12 Pro of the same size and then the 12

00:29:53 ◼   ► Pro max is the biggest one but the fun thing is 5.4 inches is smaller than the

00:30:04 ◼   ► current sizes right by quite a lot actually to the point that you would end up with the iPhone 12

00:30:11 ◼   ► so the kind of quote-unquote entry into that line being smaller than the iPhone SE

00:30:18 ◼   ► too like physically that phone would would it be expected to fit in between the SE and the SE 2

00:30:28 ◼   ► That's a that's a small iPhone. It is a small iPhone and it makes me wonder

00:30:34 ◼   ► Why the SE is around other than price its price that's the only reason it's around

00:30:40 ◼   ► You know

00:30:41 ◼   ► I have the iPhone 11 Pro the 5.8 inch the size the iPhone 10

00:30:45 ◼   ► Came out at and I really like that size

00:30:48 ◼   ► Also, I like the size that the 10 are and the 11 was at which is 6.1 inches. So having something

00:30:56 ◼   ► That size is I think I'd be okay with that going from the 11 Pro to the 12 Pro even though it's bigger

00:31:03 ◼   ► I didn't mind the size of the 10 R that I had for a while, but I definitely don't want to go bigger than that

00:31:09 ◼   ► yeah, because the

00:31:12 ◼   ► The 12 Pro would still be smaller than the pro max. Mm-hmm, right like actually would kind of sit

00:31:19 ◼   ► slightly larger than than what we currently have and in the same vein right the the the

00:31:25 ◼   ► the 12 Pro Max at 6.7 inches. It's a big screen and the physical dimensions are a little bigger.

00:31:37 ◼   ► I wonder if that might be too much for me. I think it might be. To have a phone even

00:31:45 ◼   ► bigger than the Pro Max. I don't know. I really don't know about that. I will tell you if

00:31:51 ◼   ► this is what they do it's the phone I will go for because I have always liked

00:31:56 ◼   ► the bigger phones and I would like to know like is this the right phone for me

00:32:00 ◼   ► but I think that they may be really kind of pushing up there onto the the top end

00:32:07 ◼   ► of how big a phone can get like and I'm honestly like I don't know why they

00:32:14 ◼   ► would be making the pro max that big I mean I guess just because they're making

00:32:20 ◼   ► the regular ones bigger. I'm also not sure why they're doing that, right? That

00:32:27 ◼   ► like the the the 11 Pro is gonna get bigger. I don't know why I really like

00:32:35 ◼   ► I'm struggling to get my head around why they're doing that. Like to me it would

00:32:38 ◼   ► have been more logical to have the iPhone 12 Pro sit at the 5.8 range and

00:32:47 ◼   ► and then have the 12 Max be bigger than that one.

00:32:52 ◼   ► Like I'm kind of a little bit for me confused

00:32:55 ◼   ► as to why the 12 Pro and the 12 Max are the same size.

00:32:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, that is weird to me.

00:33:01 ◼   ► And I assume that the Pro would have another camera,

00:33:06 ◼   ► so it's gonna be more expensive.

00:33:07 ◼   ► But I think a lot of people are gonna look at the 12 Pro

00:33:10 ◼   ► if it's the same size, think,

00:33:12 ◼   ► why is this one so much more?

00:33:14 ◼   ► Especially if they're all OLED.

00:33:15 ◼   ► apparently they are all Ola'd.

00:33:17 ◼   ► - Which has been rumored.

00:33:18 ◼   ► And so I don't know, it kind of makes the 12 Pro,

00:33:21 ◼   ► which is what I would get,

00:33:23 ◼   ► kind of seem like maybe not that great of a deal.

00:33:25 ◼   ► And that's also weird.

00:33:27 ◼   ► - It is.

00:33:27 ◼   ► And again, I will state, this is all very confusing.

00:33:30 ◼   ► Like I would recommend while you're listening to this,

00:33:32 ◼   ► look at the graphic that is in the show notes

00:33:35 ◼   ► and the MacRumors article,

00:33:36 ◼   ► like it helps you to kind of see the progression.

00:33:39 ◼   ► So I will run it through one last time,

00:33:41 ◼   ► size-wise from like from smallest to largest,

00:33:44 ◼   ► iPhone SE, iPhone 12, iPhone SE 2,

00:33:47 ◼   ► iPhone 11 and 12, iPhone 11 Pro Max,

00:33:53 ◼   ► iPhone 12 Pro Max.

00:33:55 ◼   ► That's kind of the way it goes up in size now with current and new phones.

00:33:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:00 ◼   ► Yeah. I don't know, man. I really, I'm,

00:34:04 ◼   ► I think it's good to have choice,

00:34:07 ◼   ► but I think the choice needs to be really clearly laid out as to why you would

00:34:13 ◼   ► make the decisions and it's difficult for us to see that without the full spec

00:34:17 ◼   ► lineup right like to understand like what actually makes the Max and the Pro

00:34:21 ◼   ► different but putting them in at the same physical screen sizes is a is quite

00:34:29 ◼   ► feels quite peculiar to me especially when they've made the entry phone

00:34:35 ◼   ► significantly smaller yes it's a very peculiar lineup but for people that want

00:34:41 ◼   ► a smaller phone, I'm happy that they will get that in a modern phone. I think that's

00:34:48 ◼   ► great. Right? Like if you have been the person that's wanted a smaller iPhone and were waiting

00:34:54 ◼   ► for the SE and were like, "Ah, well, you know, I'll just get what they make out of that."

00:34:59 ◼   ► And then were disappointed. If you then continue to wait, which you probably didn't, but if

00:35:04 ◼   ► you did continue to wait, I think getting rewarded with like, because you know, the

00:35:09 ◼   ► has good specs inside of it but it doesn't have all of the bells and whistles like the camera

00:35:13 ◼   ► and face id and all that kind of stuff so being able to get all of that in a smaller phone that

00:35:19 ◼   ► would be that is a cool deal for the people that wanted a smaller iphone again oh definitely because

00:35:25 ◼   ► you're not being punished with having a touch id button you know you can get a modern phone that's

00:35:32 ◼   ► that's small and i don't know if anyone who bought the se2 would be i sure some of them would be

00:35:38 ◼   ► be bummed but I think a lot of people want something more affordable and I

00:35:46 ◼   ► think that's the SE's selling point. But if that wasn't the case and you do want

00:35:51 ◼   ► to get the new one I bet the SE 2 has retained pretty good value if you want

00:35:55 ◼   ► to resell it at this point. Yeah mm-hmm so yeah it's uh it is confusing you got

00:36:03 ◼   ► to go look at the graphic I think the way Apple is gonna sell this is hey

00:36:07 ◼   ► we've got you know two families of phones 12 12 Pro there's a little and a

00:36:14 ◼   ► big version of each and they touch in the middle and I think just the four of

00:36:19 ◼   ► those phones on a slide in basic sort of basic isolation I think that will I

00:36:27 ◼   ► think that'll make sense to people hmm new phones will be here before we know

00:36:31 ◼   ► it that is the thing that is exciting to me though like that we're in that kind

00:36:36 ◼   ► time of the year.

00:36:38 ◼   ► We have no idea exactly what time of year, it'd probably be a little bit later than normal,

00:36:42 ◼   ► but the WWDC lately up to the iPhone stuff, it's like, "Oh great, this is just the typical

00:36:48 ◼   ► news that I can think about and care about for a while."

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00:38:33 ◼   ► to Ahrefs for their support of connected and relay FM. The time has come Myke, talk about

00:38:39 ◼   ► Mac stuff. Okay. So the Apple silicone there are big changes coming right new, brand new

00:38:47 ◼   ► CPU, big architecture transition. And that's always exciting. It's exciting when it's happened

00:38:52 ◼   ► in the past. But with so many things, the details get really interesting. So I've spent

00:38:57 ◼   ► some time watching a bunch of WWDC sessions about this. They have one in particular about

00:39:03 ◼   ► the system architecture changes. And they also have ones about porting your apps and

00:39:07 ◼   ► your games over. Absorbing all this stuff, you get a pretty good picture of how these

00:39:11 ◼   ► Macs are going to work under the hood. So I thought we could talk about that. Okay.

00:39:16 ◼   ► excited to learn about unified memory architecture? No. Well you're going to.

00:39:21 ◼   ► There are things that I am excited about when we're talking about this. That's not

00:39:26 ◼   ► one of them because I don't know what that means. Are you excited about kernel

00:39:31 ◼   ► integrity protection? No. PCI device isolation? Sure. Okay we'll get to that.

00:39:38 ◼   ► I'll wait for that one. That's the one I'm really excited about. You're really selling this segment to both me and

00:39:45 ◼   ► the listener. Hey, I know there are people like me out there. Mm-hmm. There are dozens of us. Mm-hmm.

00:39:51 ◼   ► So currently, basically every type of classic computer, what you think of, has memory for the CPU

00:39:59 ◼   ► and separate memory for the GPU. On modern Macs, you can have giant pools of this stuff and data

00:40:05 ◼   ► can be shared between them, but on the iPhone and iPad and the coming Mac architecture, Apple will

00:40:13 ◼   ► be going to a unified memory architecture, unified memory system. And this means that

00:40:19 ◼   ► the memory is basically a pool for both the CPU and GPU to quickly share data between

00:40:25 ◼   ► them. So the way of thinking about, oh, I've got, you know, 32 gigs of RAM, but my video

00:40:31 ◼   ► card has eight gigabytes of memory, like those lines are going to get really, really blurry

00:40:38 ◼   ► the Apple Silicon world, because it's all unified in a big, a big bucket of memory.

00:40:46 ◼   ► Everyone's just hanging out together. What does this mean for RAM upgrades? I don't know.

00:40:52 ◼   ► Like there's lots of questions about this.

00:40:54 ◼   ► Could this mean that there wouldn't be any?

00:40:57 ◼   ► It could. I mean, so on most Macs, there's not. The only Mac you can really abate the

00:41:01 ◼   ► RAM in yourself is the 5k iMac, which looks like it's going to get replaced here pretty

00:41:07 ◼   ► soon, the Mac Mini if you're brave and the Mac Pro, all the other machines that sealed

00:41:12 ◼   ► in or even soldered. So maybe it's not a big deal, but it could it could be the end of

00:41:17 ◼   ► memory upgrades on most computers.

00:41:21 ◼   ► I would be completely unsurprised if that was the case. I actually just think that's

00:41:26 ◼   ► what they will do. Like this simplifies things for them. And trying to reduce the amount

00:41:32 ◼   ► of build to order options on the Mac I'm sure is like an overall cost goal

00:41:37 ◼   ► somewhere. You know and I and I really expect that so many Mac buyers now do

00:41:47 ◼   ► not make any amendments to this stuff. Or it may be that it is custom order but

00:41:53 ◼   ► it's that is what it is and the chat room is pointing out that on computers

00:41:58 ◼   ► with onboard Intel graphics, it already kind of works this way. It is very similar. There's

00:42:04 ◼   ► some slight differences that are beyond my pay grade. But this is this unified move architecture

00:42:10 ◼   ► is a big change. What it unlocks potentially is if apps are written, especially in metal,

00:42:17 ◼   ► which Apple's really, really pushing, is that these applications can get data around the

00:42:24 ◼   ► the system way quicker than ever before because they're not having to use a PCI

00:42:29 ◼   ► connect connection in between the CPU and GPU it's all there in one place it

00:42:36 ◼   ► could meet some really breakthrough performance stuff if apps can really

00:42:41 ◼   ► make it sing which is is going to be a recurring theme as we move into this new

00:42:46 ◼   ► world that Apple wants you to build applications in a certain way especially

00:42:50 ◼   ► if they're graphics heavy, and that way is metal. So get used to metal if you want to,

00:42:56 ◼   ► if you really want to fire this thing up. Okay, you ready? Are you ready for metal?

00:42:59 ◼   ► Are you going to rewrite your app in metal? Yeah. Unlike Intel Max, Apple, Silicon Max have

00:43:04 ◼   ► will have asymmetric multi processing. So they started this on the iPhone years ago,

00:43:09 ◼   ► or hey, we've got four cores to our high performance and to our high efficiency.

00:43:14 ◼   ► Remember this and they can use the ones that they need at any given time with a mindset towards we

00:43:22 ◼   ► want to preserve battery life but offer performance when the user demands it. So there's this concept

00:43:29 ◼   ► of processing your processes with your application having basically identifiers on them to say hey

00:43:35 ◼   ► I'm a high performance task the user asked me to perform something I need to be on the high

00:43:41 ◼   ► performance core let me go as fast as I can go while a lot of other stuff including maybe even in the background could be

00:43:47 ◼   ► relegated to those

00:43:51 ◼   ► Slower more energy-efficient cores and could just happen whenever those cores are free

00:43:56 ◼   ► Again, developers don't get all this for free on

00:43:59 ◼   ► Intel max every core is more or less the same speed

00:44:04 ◼   ► You know you have hyper threading and you have other other issues to contend with but for the most part

00:44:09 ◼   ► Core one and core three are the same speed and so

00:44:12 ◼   ► Mac apps now written for multi threading can just assume that all cores will act the same and that will not be true on

00:44:20 ◼   ► Apple silicon Macs and this was a big question I had of how much of what we see in the iPhone and iPad

00:44:27 ◼   ► will make it over to the Mac and this is what I thought about because

00:44:31 ◼   ► efficiency is really important on a mobile

00:44:34 ◼   ► Mac

00:44:36 ◼   ► Right your your arm powered MacBook Air you and have really good battery life, but something like an iMac or a Mac Pro

00:44:43 ◼   ► You don't really care about efficiency that much you really want high performance stuff. And so my guess is that Apple offer different

00:44:51 ◼   ► mixes of cores in their different platform

00:44:55 ◼   ► So maybe a low-end notebook has too high performance and too high efficiency

00:45:00 ◼   ► Where the iMac, you know 27 inch whatever big iMac would have

00:45:05 ◼   ► 6, 8, 10 high-performance cores and maybe 4 high-efficiency cores. Maybe they can skew this one direction or the other

00:45:12 ◼   ► depending on the device. And that's a strength they'll have because they'll be controlling the whole thing, which I think is really exciting, right?

00:45:20 ◼   ► They could tune these things

00:45:22 ◼   ► depending on what they need.

00:45:24 ◼   ► I think this is

00:45:26 ◼   ► confusing to me as why they would be giving developers this information now. Mm-hmm. Because

00:45:34 ◼   ► Like can

00:45:36 ◼   ► Currently like a Mac developer

00:45:38 ◼   ► Can they really have that much control over how much power is given to the application?

00:45:44 ◼   ► If well right now if you enable it for an application for multi-threaded use

00:45:50 ◼   ► The system basically will split those across the multiple cores as it sees fit

00:45:55 ◼   ► Granted this dispatches kind of in the middle of all this running that

00:45:58 ◼   ► But that's what I'd figured so like it surprises me

00:46:02 ◼   ► That it doesn't just replace it of like you tell the system give me as much power as you have

00:46:08 ◼   ► And it will do that no matter where it's coming from from like it. I think I'm a little bit perplexed as to why

00:46:15 ◼   ► Why they would be talking about that like how it actually differs for a developer

00:46:21 ◼   ► I'm a clear if it's the same api's that are used now or they're changed

00:46:26 ◼   ► But I do know the the declaration of this task is a high can be run a high efficiency

00:46:32 ◼   ► core that is new right and so I think they're really pushing developers to be

00:46:36 ◼   ► like look you don't want to be called out in the battery menu bar item for

00:46:40 ◼   ► being power inefficient and this could be a way to get around that and to make

00:46:45 ◼   ► sure that you're behaving and remember the DTKs are out there right we have

00:46:49 ◼   ► people on the internet have them that we may or may not know who knows it's a

00:46:53 ◼   ► mystery no I know multiple people that have them yeah me too I was trying to be

00:46:56 ◼   ► mysterious right but the thing is no developer is keeping their mouth shut

00:47:01 ◼   ► about the fact that they have them. That's true. Everyone is saying that they have them, but they...

00:47:07 ◼   ► Yeah, so when James is working on Peacock on the DTK, he could be working on this and say,

00:47:13 ◼   ► "Hey, some tasks can be high efficiency." And I think it's really incentive for

00:47:18 ◼   ► developers to be good stewards of battery life, which is good, because that's one of the key

00:47:25 ◼   ► ideas in moving to our Macs is the battery life could be incredible. Well, that can only go so

00:47:31 ◼   ► far if developers don't write apps that behave, right? Look at Chrome, right? Chrome on a

00:47:35 ◼   ► 13 inch MacBook Pro and running Safari on the same MacBook Pro, drastically different

00:47:39 ◼   ► experiences in terms of battery life.

00:47:41 ◼   ► Yeah, I think I'm just surprised. I think it just surprises me that the system doesn't

00:47:45 ◼   ► do it for you. You actually don't get that say.

00:47:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's that the system can't, or the system doesn't want to assume what

00:47:55 ◼   ► in your app should be higher priority than other things.

00:47:58 ◼   ► Right.

00:47:59 ◼   ► I mean, I'm assuming that the high efficiency, low efficiency thing will not be the case

00:48:06 ◼   ► on the desktop machines.

00:48:08 ◼   ► I think they may still have those high efficiency cores, so applications that are expecting

00:48:13 ◼   ► them are there, but I would expect the high power cores to vastly outnumber them on desktops.

00:48:18 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:48:19 ◼   ► And then on mobile, maybe it's a little more in balance, you know, depending on the application.

00:48:23 ◼   ► the low efficiency cores take the handle of like when the machine is sleeping. If things

00:48:31 ◼   ► are happening in the background, right things like the other what's the name for it? There's

00:48:36 ◼   ► a the Mac has that doesn't it like power nap power now. So like stuff the device can do

00:48:41 ◼   ► right. Check your ml update iCloud. Yeah, I would imagine all that gets moved to a low

00:48:45 ◼   ► efficiency core. Yeah, and just like can run for you know, 90 days or something on standby.

00:48:51 ◼   ► So that's a big thing. This is one of those things I think like grand sense will dispatch

00:48:54 ◼   ► like some other things that they did like I got the Mavericks days that this is going

00:48:58 ◼   ► to take time for developers to tune all of this and the DTK running the a 12 z isn't

00:49:05 ◼   ► what a real CPU will be like in these Macs. So I expect this to get better with time as

00:49:09 ◼   ► developers do a better job at fine tuning this. But I guess this is one of the good

00:49:13 ◼   ► things about the DTK is it does have a chip that has this at least, you know, like the

00:49:19 ◼   ► that they're working to do have high efficiency and low power cores in that

00:49:25 ◼   ► chip so that's good at least. So a couple of security things that they're

00:49:29 ◼   ► basically bringing over because this is the way that it works on iOS devices

00:49:34 ◼   ► where the the system will talk about the boot process in a second but basically

00:49:39 ◼   ► the system is much more protected right now in Catalina the system lives on a

00:49:46 ◼   ► a read only partition, you can't write to that in big sur that is then actually signed.

00:49:53 ◼   ► And so if anything does get changed, the signature would fail and the OS would when it boot or

00:49:59 ◼   ► would give you some sort of warning.

00:50:01 ◼   ► Now when the kernel is loaded into memory on these new machines, so this is independent

00:50:06 ◼   ► of big sur but on our max in particular, what's the kernels in memory, the pages of memory

00:50:12 ◼   ► that have kernel code in them cannot be modified.

00:50:15 ◼   ► So having kernel injections and these other things that used to be pretty, I mean, in

00:50:22 ◼   ► one way obscure but also really serious security loopholes, those continue to get locked down.

00:50:28 ◼   ► It's basically impossible or very difficult to screw with the kernel once you're up and

00:50:32 ◼   ► running.

00:50:33 ◼   ► Memory serves, they deprecated that a couple of years ago or a year ago, right?

00:50:38 ◼   ► Where they were like, "Stop doing that."

00:50:40 ◼   ► Yeah, so they've deprecated kernel extensions.

00:50:44 ◼   ► extensions are being phased out in favor of driver kit, which it runs sort of in

00:50:50 ◼   ► the user space. What's interesting, I did not think this was going to be the case.

00:50:54 ◼   ► Kernel extensions are still supported in Big Sur on Intel, but they're also

00:50:58 ◼   ► supported on our Macs. I thought they may draw the line with the transition and

00:51:01 ◼   ► say, "Look, if you're running an Apple silicon Mac, you don't get kernel extensions."

00:51:06 ◼   ► They're still there. I think the reason is that a lot of corporate

00:51:10 ◼   ► security suites and like, you know, enterprise tools going to take a while

00:51:14 ◼   ► rely on a kernel extensions. And so maybe they, they want to keep those around a

00:51:18 ◼   ► couple more years for those applications to come over.

00:51:20 ◼   ► I might be speaking out of school here, but could they potentially just be

00:51:25 ◼   ► running in Rosetta?

00:51:26 ◼   ► Kernel extensions, I believe cannot be emulated.

00:51:29 ◼   ► So they have to be recompiled to be native, I think.

00:51:32 ◼   ► But Apple says, and no one's certain terms.

00:51:36 ◼   ► I wrote this down while watching a session more friction around kernel

00:51:39 ◼   ► extensions is expected as Apple pushes towards driver kit. It's like, just so you know, we're

00:51:45 ◼   ► going to make this harder and harder for you as a developer and a user to rely on kernel

00:51:51 ◼   ► extensions. And really, like, it can be really surprising how many you may have running on

00:51:56 ◼   ► your Mac, because a lot of things use them.

00:51:58 ◼   ► I don't like those things. They cause that really like, you know, aren't they the thing

00:52:04 ◼   ► that causes that super weird gray screen? Is that what kernel extensions do? You know

00:52:09 ◼   ► I'm talking about when the screen has all that text on it. It's like basically like

00:52:13 ◼   ► the max version, the blue screen, the kernel panic. Yeah, kernel panic. That's it. They

00:52:18 ◼   ► can lead to that sort of thing. Okay. But Apple Apple's trying to get all those kind

00:52:23 ◼   ► of be written on a higher level than the kernel because the kernel is the heart of the OS.

00:52:26 ◼   ► And you know, it controls things like memory and data allocations. Like maybe that should

00:52:31 ◼   ► just be a sealed off box. And we don't we don't play in that space anymore. One thing

00:52:36 ◼   ► thing that's related to this is your favorite the device isolation. So on

00:52:40 ◼   ► Intel Macs, any PCI device has access to all system memory and they're going to

00:52:45 ◼   ► change that on our Macs for basically a PCI device has its own pathway has

00:52:49 ◼   ► dedicated pages in memory so it can't snoop on other PCI devices. Again, pretty

00:52:57 ◼   ► obscure security issue but potentially serious if it were to be exploited so

00:53:01 ◼   ► they're continuing to to lock these things down which I think on the whole

00:53:05 ◼   ► is pretty good. If you run enterprise software, it's probably gonna be a pain

00:53:07 ◼   ► in the butt, but I think from a user perspective, I think all this is pretty

00:53:11 ◼   ► good stuff for the most part. So the the boot overview stuff, I'm just gonna make

00:53:15 ◼   ► this part quick. I just thought it was interesting. You know right now if you

00:53:18 ◼   ► have an issue with your Mac, you have to like boot up with like command R or

00:53:23 ◼   ► command option R and you always have to look it up because it's confusing.

00:53:26 ◼   ► Is that the PRAM? Well PRAM I think is still gonna be separate, but to boot into

00:53:30 ◼   ► recovery mode or internet recovery mode all those things now you can just long

00:53:36 ◼   ► press on the power button or the touch ID button if you have a notebook and it

00:53:42 ◼   ► will give you a new fancy menu and tell you give you the options you have

00:53:47 ◼   ► available to you you know system recovery startup disk options whatever

00:53:52 ◼   ► you're looking for so they're making that a little bit easier because all

00:53:55 ◼   ► those boot modifiers have gotten too complicated for most people to remember

00:53:59 ◼   ► including me. There is something that's that's interesting here. So secure boot

00:54:03 ◼   ► has been around for a while. That's what tells a machine what it can boot from.

00:54:10 ◼   ► Apple says that in Apple silicon Macs, it is made to support multiple Mac OS

00:54:16 ◼   ► installs and versions as long as they're signed or previously signed by Apple. I

00:54:21 ◼   ► I don't know what that means. Like does that mean an ARM Mac I buy in five years? Could that run Big Sur? Because right now it couldn't. So it's like it's a little it was unusual wording about what versions of Mac OS could run even though they're no longer signed. My guess is what it means is, if I have a 2024 Mac, I can't run Big Sur right but if in 2024 I have a Mac I bought in

00:54:51 ◼   ► 2021, I could still install Big Sur on that, even if Apple stops signing it, which is really

00:54:57 ◼   ► different from iOS, right? We see these articles every time there's an iOS software update,

00:55:02 ◼   ► like 13.5.1 is out 13.5 has, you know, stopped being signed by Apple, so you can't install

00:55:09 ◼   ► it anymore. It seems like they're gonna give Mac users a little more flexibility here,

00:55:14 ◼   ► which I think is good as what Mac users want. And if you want to restore an older version

00:55:19 ◼   ► of the OS, that should be fine. So that that is a little bit of a change. You can now and

00:55:27 ◼   ► start it startup boot security stuff, tell it to boot from external disks, which you

00:55:32 ◼   ► can now but you'd have to turn off some other settings to make it overall less secure. So

00:55:37 ◼   ► they've kind of made middle ground there, which is really useful in a troubleshooting

00:55:42 ◼   ► standpoint, be able to boot from an external drive. One change here is that they are getting

00:55:48 ◼   ► rid of target disk mode, which a lot of us have used, you power up your Mac, it used

00:55:52 ◼   ► to be firewired out, it's Thunderbolt, you run a cable between two machines and you migrate,

00:55:57 ◼   ► that is gone, is being replaced with what's called Mac sharing mode, where you hook two

00:56:04 ◼   ► Macs up over the network. And it's based on SMB file sharing. And you'll have to authenticate

00:56:10 ◼   ► to the old Mac, as opposed to target disk mode, which basically just made your Mac big

00:56:16 ◼   ► external hard drive. So that's an interesting change. I think functionally, it'll stay the

00:56:21 ◼   ► same where I could use migration assistant from an old computer. But target is mode has

00:56:26 ◼   ► been around. I mean, for 20 years, 25 years and being replaced with this Mac sharing mode

00:56:32 ◼   ► over SMB. So that'll be a change that people will run into probably the second or third

00:56:38 ◼   ► our Mac they buy, you know, you're not going to be migrating from an our Mac, probably

00:56:42 ◼   ► in the first year or so because you're just going to buy one and use it for a long time.

00:56:46 ◼   ► But that'll be something to keep an eye out for later down the road.

00:56:49 ◼   ► How is it going to work to move to an ARM Mac?

00:56:53 ◼   ► So right now, Migration Assistant will work over the network.

00:56:57 ◼   ► And I would assume that you could have an Intel Mac in target disk mode and connect

00:57:02 ◼   ► it to an ARM Mac over Thunderbolt or whatever the connector is.

00:57:06 ◼   ► It's just that the ARM Mac itself can't go into target disk mode.

00:57:10 ◼   ► So I think going to an R Mac will be just like going to an another Intel Mac.

00:57:14 ◼   ► But going from an R Mac to something else may it may be this different process in the

00:57:18 ◼   ► future.

00:57:19 ◼   ► Okay.

00:57:20 ◼   ► I like the name though, Mac sharing mode.

00:57:22 ◼   ► It's a nice name.

00:57:23 ◼   ► It's better than migration assistant.

00:57:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:26 ◼   ► Or target is mode.

00:57:27 ◼   ► Like no one knows what that means.

00:57:28 ◼   ► That's what I mean.

00:57:29 ◼   ► But like that's like a, yeah, it's like a whole other thing.

00:57:32 ◼   ► One last thing and talking about the startup and recovery changes a couple things right

00:57:38 ◼   ► Right now, in the full or reduced security things, which tells the Mac, hey, can I boot

00:57:43 ◼   ► from an external disk, etc. on Intel Macs that is set to the system wide setting.

00:57:51 ◼   ► So if I say this Mac cannot boot from external drive, it can't there's no way around it.

00:57:59 ◼   ► Okay, if you're on an ARM Mac, you can set these settings per version of Mac OS.

00:58:07 ◼   ► So if you are running Mac OS Big Sur, and whatever comes after it, you could say, my

00:58:13 ◼   ► new OS cannot boot from an external drive, it has these security parameters, the other

00:58:17 ◼   ► OS can have different security parameters.

00:58:20 ◼   ► Right?

00:58:21 ◼   ► In my mind, I can't think of a great example of why someone would want that.

00:58:26 ◼   ► But it's an option.

00:58:28 ◼   ► Clearly, Apple has some use case in mind here.

00:58:30 ◼   ► So it's, that's a change to go into that reduce security mode.

00:58:36 ◼   ► it does let you run those older versions of Mac OS.

00:58:42 ◼   ► And you must be using notarized third party kernel extensions and reduced security.

00:58:47 ◼   ► So if you have non notarized kernel extensions, which I'm not even sure is possible under

00:58:52 ◼   ► big Sur, I think they all have to be signed.

00:58:54 ◼   ► But anyways, if you don't, if you have one that's not notarized, for whatever reason,

00:58:59 ◼   ► you cannot go into reduced security mode, you have to stay in full security mode.

00:59:04 ◼   ► Again, keeping the kernel as safe as distant from third party code as you can say if you

00:59:10 ◼   ► were going to reduce security, this is going to be a trade off you have to make you have

00:59:14 ◼   ► to make sure all your kernel extensions are notarized.

00:59:16 ◼   ► Again, I think they often be notarized a big sir.

00:59:18 ◼   ► So I'm not sure if this is a that big of a of a headache, but it is a thing to be aware

00:59:26 ◼   ► of.

00:59:27 ◼   ► And the chat room is is wondering if system integrity protection can be disabled on our

00:59:33 ◼   ► I have not seen anything saying that specifically so I would assume that it works the same way as the Intel Mac does well

00:59:40 ◼   ► You can turn off sip if you want to but you shouldn't

00:59:44 ◼   ► Not your own parallel. Yeah, I don't do it. I want sip on so I turn off on every Mac

00:59:51 ◼   ► Come on, just like who needs the integrity of the system. Not me. Yeah the flat earth of security settings

00:59:58 ◼   ► Uh-huh, just get that thing taken care of. If there's one thing I can keep secure, it's my Macintosh.

01:00:04 ◼   ► So there's that.

01:00:08 ◼   ► Lastly, Mac OS recovery itself has been around for a long time. If you need to reinstall Mac OS,

01:00:15 ◼   ► there's like a secret version of it on a volume on your Mac and you can reinstall it. On Intel Macs

01:00:20 ◼   ► you can always fall back to Internet recovery,

01:00:22 ◼   ► which maybe you've had to do, some people in the audience have had to do, if you replace

01:00:26 ◼   ► the the disk or you completely wipe it you can boot up again with some secret combination of keyboard commands and

01:00:33 ◼   ► Basically install Mac OS from Apple over the internet. It's slow depending on your internet connection

01:00:39 ◼   ► But it's your fallback if your internal disk has been completely formatted

01:00:45 ◼   ► now on

01:00:47 ◼   ► Apple silicon Macs they're adding another option called system recovery. So if

01:00:53 ◼   ► Your Mac OS install is broken you have Mac OS recovery to reinstall it if you've done something where?

01:01:00 ◼   ► The Mac OS recovery is also broken now you have system recovery this leaves lives in a separate hidden container

01:01:09 ◼   ► So it's not really listed anywhere

01:01:11 ◼   ► I think you can see it in terminal if you if you start probing around your volumes

01:01:14 ◼   ► but it's not like mounted anywhere for the user to see it and

01:01:17 ◼   ► and it is a minimal version of macOS

01:01:20 ◼   ► that can reinstall macOS recovery and macOS.

01:01:24 ◼   ► Like you have this like third level backup of,

01:01:26 ◼   ► if you really do something terrible to your install,

01:01:29 ◼   ► there's like another way you can get back up and running.

01:01:32 ◼   ► - If you did something bad, there's this.

01:01:34 ◼   ► If you did something bad to that, there's this.

01:01:37 ◼   ► If you did something so bad

01:01:39 ◼   ► that nothing else exists for you, we also have this one.

01:01:42 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:01:43 ◼   ► It's macOS all the way down.

01:01:45 ◼   ► Apple Configurator two will also continue to be supported.

01:01:48 ◼   ► You need that right now if you install a new,

01:01:53 ◼   ► like say you updated the SSDs in your Mac pro,

01:01:56 ◼   ► I linked to the knowledge base Oracle about this.

01:01:57 ◼   ► You have to use Apple Configurator two to like repair the SSDs to the T2.

01:02:02 ◼   ► And anyways, Apple Configurator two will still be around on our max. Again,

01:02:08 ◼   ► this is also a tool using the enterprise to recover machines under certain

01:02:12 ◼   ► circumstances. So that's still there as well.

01:02:14 ◼   ► They're just giving people more flexibility and more tools to manage this,

01:02:18 ◼   ► which I think is cool because a lot of us thought, well, dang,

01:02:21 ◼   ► our Macs are going to be more locked down in these ways.

01:02:24 ◼   ► And in some ways that's true,

01:02:25 ◼   ► but other ways Apple's making them more livable for people who need to recover

01:02:30 ◼   ► or to troubleshoot things, which I think is great.

01:02:32 ◼   ► This transition is going to create a lot of work for people in support

01:02:37 ◼   ► roles for Macs.

01:02:40 ◼   ► It's like a lot to learn because it's like you must retain all of the current knowledge

01:02:45 ◼   ► for many years to come and then there's also these really different ways that things work

01:02:52 ◼   ► which in a lot of instances will be counter to your ingrained knowledge of how this stuff

01:02:58 ◼   ► works.

01:02:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:00 ◼   ► I mean it makes sense but I think it's still something worth stating that there is a lot

01:03:05 ◼   ► happening.

01:03:06 ◼   ► Well, and Big Sur itself even works differently on Intel and our Macs as you can run

01:03:11 ◼   ► I've put an iPad apps on the arm one. So it is just all over the place

01:03:15 ◼   ► I agree with you, you know

01:03:16 ◼   ► I've got plenty of friends who support a bunch of Macs for a living and

01:03:19 ◼   ► It's like y'all are gonna have a fun time when they start showing up on your shores

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01:04:56 ◼   ► So Myke, you said that you've been running Big Sur

01:04:59 ◼   ► on a laptop, I'm very curious to hear what you think about it.

01:05:03 ◼   ► Yeah, or Big Sur, as our friend Quinn Nelson says.

01:05:07 ◼   ► Did you notice that in Quinn's video?

01:05:09 ◼   ► Yeah, it's really weird.

01:05:11 ◼   ► So I was looking in the comments, so friend of the show, your co-host on Flashback, Quinn

01:05:17 ◼   ► Nelson of Snazzy Labs, made a great video kind of showing off a lot of the UI changes

01:05:24 ◼   ► and stuff in Big Sur.

01:05:27 ◼   ► I liked it. It was a very cool video actually. Nicely done.

01:05:30 ◼   ► But Quinn was calling the operating system big

01:05:35 ◼   ► sewer like that, right? Something like I'm trying to, maybe you can actually,

01:05:39 ◼   ► can you clip it and just put it in here so people can hear what Quinn was saying?

01:05:43 ◼   ► I've been using the Mac OS big sewer beta, excuse me, partner,

01:05:47 ◼   ► big sur beta on my Mac pro since Monday.

01:05:50 ◼   ► Looked in the comments and Quinn was saying that he is

01:05:56 ◼   ► pronouncing it as it would be in Spanish and Sur is Spanish so that's why.

01:06:04 ◼   ► He spoke Spanish, he lived in South America for a while. Yeah so maybe it's still like...

01:06:09 ◼   ► I know he is a native Spanish speaker or at least a fluent Spanish speaker so

01:06:15 ◼   ► that would be why but it's you know it's like it's one of those things I was

01:06:19 ◼   ► laughing it's like Quinn you may be like technically correct but you are going to

01:06:25 ◼   ► to be the only person speaking English who calls it this. No one else is gonna do it,

01:06:32 ◼   ► but I implore Quinn to fight the good fight on this one and just soldier on, you know?

01:06:39 ◼   ► Just you can be the big surgaay or whatever you want to say it.

01:06:42 ◼   ► Well we had that with Mojave, right? Mojave, Mojave.

01:06:45 ◼   ► Mojave, Mojave. I mean, I know John Siracus is on a rampage, a tirade right now about

01:06:52 ◼   ► where the emphasis should go in that. Who knows if anyone's saying it correctly. This

01:06:58 ◼   ► is the fun thing of Mac OS product namings. They're very hard to get consistent now. It

01:07:05 ◼   ► wasn't so much of a problem when it was cats.

01:07:08 ◼   ► I don't know, Steve Jobs said Jaguar in a really weird way.

01:07:11 ◼   ► This is Jaguar, the next release of Mac OS X. We're officially announcing it today, version

01:07:17 ◼   ► 10.2.

01:07:18 ◼   ► [applause]

01:07:22 ◼   ► What's it gonna look like? [laughter]

01:07:26 ◼   ► It's the most beautiful CD we've ever made. Pixar rendered the fur, by the way.

01:07:30 ◼   ► [laughter]

01:07:34 ◼   ► Mac OS X Jaguar has over 150

01:07:38 ◼   ► major new features in it. Well, there's that and there's also

01:07:42 ◼   ► Puma, or Puma, or, I don't know, Puma

01:07:46 ◼   ► Tiger. Tiger. I don't know. Anyway, so. Not a lion.

01:07:55 ◼   ► I a while ago had loaned to me by Apple a 16 inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar. Well,

01:08:04 ◼   ► the new 16 inch MacBook Pro, right? So the brand new one. And it's the only one because

01:08:09 ◼   ► it's anyway, so I've had that for a while. I actually, they let me keep it for a little

01:08:14 ◼   ► bit longer and I've put Big Sur on that machine because I don't use that computer, right?

01:08:21 ◼   ► It was a review machine. I've never used it for anything. It was actually in my studio,

01:08:26 ◼   ► locked away in my studio for three months without me being able to get to it. But I

01:08:31 ◼   ► went to the studio last week and picked up the laptop and I've put Big Sur on it and

01:08:35 ◼   ► I've used it for a few hours, right? Like over a couple of days, which is enough to

01:08:41 ◼   ► get some kind of first impressions but I'm not planning on doing anything significant in it.

01:08:46 ◼   ► You know, I played around with it, I actually wrote my notes for this show whilst using it,

01:08:52 ◼   ► you know, and just kind of seeing what it would be like to poke around and also just to do some

01:08:58 ◼   ► typical kind of like non-recording work on that machine. And I have like a list of things that I

01:09:07 ◼   ► wanted to mention that of the areas you've heard of but as is typical with me

01:09:12 ◼   ► in these sort of situations I have differing views to your typical

01:09:15 ◼   ► technology podcaster. So point number one on that is I really like the new icons I

01:09:20 ◼   ► think the app icons look fantastic. There are some weirdnesses at small sizes so I

01:09:29 ◼   ► am a left dock person and have quite a few apps in the dock and so they get

01:09:36 ◼   ► quite small and like system preferences looks really weird when it's small

01:09:41 ◼   ► because they've added quite a lot of shadowing and darkness into the gears so

01:09:46 ◼   ► it looks very dark the icon but the funny thing about that is all of the

01:09:53 ◼   ► worst iconography in Big Sur lives inside of system preferences like the

01:09:59 ◼   ► screen time icon is very bad obviously that battery icon that everyone knows

01:10:05 ◼   ► about. Did you put in here that there's something that isn't retina in there?

01:10:10 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, the icon for the notification preference pane isn't retina.

01:10:15 ◼   ► Okay, that's good. That's great. I'm gonna get a new one of those. But yeah, it is funny to me

01:10:21 ◼   ► how like most of the offenders are in there. But I feel like that's maybe always been the case.

01:10:25 ◼   ► There's always been some like strange icons inside of system preferences. Because it's one of the

01:10:31 ◼   ► only places in Mac OS that actually has visual iconography made by Apple. So you have a higher

01:10:38 ◼   ► hit rate. Like I can't think of anywhere else in the system where Apple has drawn a bunch

01:10:44 ◼   ► of icons and put them there other than the app icons, right?

01:10:49 ◼   ► Yeah, it's their chance to go in there and go wild.

01:10:53 ◼   ► Sometimes they go a little too wild. You know, obviously with the icons especially and the

01:10:59 ◼   ► fact that everyone's talking about icons and icons are such a big thing. This is naturally

01:11:04 ◼   ► reminiscent of iOS 7 because that was when all of the iOS things changed, right? Like

01:11:11 ◼   ► all of the iOS icons changed with iOS 7 and they initially went way too far and then over

01:11:17 ◼   ► the beta period kind of tightened that up a little bit. I don't think we're at that

01:11:21 ◼   ► level. I think the tweaks that need to be made or tweaks that will be made will be much

01:11:25 ◼   ► smaller especially with iconography but I think I was thinking about this and we

01:11:32 ◼   ► were talking about this in connected pro as well before we began today's episode

01:11:35 ◼   ► you can get connected pro at connected because it is it connected pro.co that's

01:11:40 ◼   ► the URL right connected pro.co get connected pro get connected pro no it's

01:11:46 ◼   ► connected pro.co you don't even know it's in the bombard I literally just

01:11:50 ◼   ► loaded it get connected pro doc oh yeah cuz I requested you get both of them for

01:11:53 ◼   ► the exact reason of what's happening right now, which was I would say get

01:11:57 ◼   ► connected protocol that so I said to you hey get that second URL but the

01:12:02 ◼   ► canonical URL for connected pros connected protocol anyhow so that's not

01:12:09 ◼   ► confusing at all for people who want to sign up well look you but no the great

01:12:13 ◼   ► thing is go to any of them and it'll be fine there's like in the show notes so

01:12:17 ◼   ► we were talking about like iOS 7 and big sir and like I think there's a lot of

01:12:23 ◼   ► assumptions of people putting them in the same bucket, in the same thinking in

01:12:29 ◼   ► their mind, that it will change a lot from beta 1 to release but I'm not

01:12:37 ◼   ► convinced that that's going to be the case that it may actually be pretty

01:12:42 ◼   ► pretty locked down visually right now, right? So that there is where we where we

01:12:50 ◼   ► are right now with Big Sur and where we end up being with Big Sur, it's probably

01:12:54 ◼   ► gonna be pretty locked in. I mean I feel like it isn't as overall

01:12:58 ◼   ► weird as it was for iOS 7 but it really maybe is just like some iconography

01:13:05 ◼   ► stuff that needs to be changed. You know like people see things like the spacing

01:13:08 ◼   ► in the menu bar and they're like "oh they'll tighten that one up" when a

01:13:13 ◼   ► different school of thought would say "no there are very specific reasons why that's the way it is."

01:13:18 ◼   ► - That's your index finger being the reason.

01:13:21 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:13:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think the icons are more or less here to stay.

01:13:24 ◼   ► I think the bigger change for me, other than the design,

01:13:27 ◼   ► is that they want to conform them all

01:13:28 ◼   ► into the round-wreck shape.

01:13:31 ◼   ► And that just makes me a little sad,

01:13:32 ◼   ► because I think Mac icons are really cool

01:13:34 ◼   ► when they were cut out shapes and all varied and mixed up.

01:13:37 ◼   ► And they're trying to downplay that.

01:13:40 ◼   ► They've definitely done that

01:13:41 ◼   ► with all their apps and utilities.

01:13:42 ◼   ► Like, just look at the utility folder on your current Mac.

01:13:46 ◼   ► Almost all of those icons are different in Big Sur

01:13:48 ◼   ► to conform to the new shape and size,

01:13:50 ◼   ► which is a bummer to me.

01:13:51 ◼   ► - Why?

01:13:52 ◼   ► - Because there's a rich history of Mac icons

01:13:55 ◼   ► being fun different shapes.

01:13:56 ◼   ► Like right now, I've got Dev and Think,

01:13:58 ◼   ► it looks like a shell.

01:13:59 ◼   ► I've got Circles, I've got Reader, which is a cube.

01:14:02 ◼   ► I've got Audio Hijack, which is a little bottle.

01:14:05 ◼   ► That means I can spot them very easily.

01:14:07 ◼   ► - Didn't they say that they can jump outside

01:14:10 ◼   ► of the round rack?

01:14:11 ◼   ► They just want it to have a round rack?

01:14:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, but it still makes me sad.

01:14:16 ◼   ► But for me, the thing about Mac icons isn't their shape, it's their overall detail and the look of them.

01:14:29 ◼   ► I don't think that, again, for me, the shape isn't so much of a thing.

01:14:33 ◼   ► I'm looking in my dock right now and honestly, again, here we go, I think that it's messy to have them all be different shapes.

01:14:44 ◼   ► I think I actually prefer the consistency because the other thing, with them being the

01:14:51 ◼   ► different shapes that they are, it looks like there are different sizes in the doc for me

01:14:56 ◼   ► and I don't like it.

01:14:57 ◼   ► I like that there is a standard idea and then you can go wild within that.

01:15:02 ◼   ► That's what I think will be cool.

01:15:04 ◼   ► It's what I like about what they currently have with the iconography.

01:15:07 ◼   ► I think that it feels much more consistent even just amongst the stuff that Apple's shipping

01:15:13 ◼   ► because there is like a guideline around it. I'm going to assume you just don't agree with me there.

01:15:20 ◼   ► Nah, we just disagree. Which is fine.

01:15:21 ◼   ► When it comes to our show artwork at Relay FM,

01:15:25 ◼   ► the person that I know personally who enjoys the most visual consistency is yourself.

01:15:31 ◼   ► It's true. I'm a complicated man.

01:15:33 ◼   ► They put me in a box.

01:15:36 ◼   ► I never claimed to be consistent.

01:15:40 ◼   ► That's the one thing you can always rely on with me is my inconsistency.

01:15:43 ◼   ► Yeah there's no truth except there's no truth kind of thing.

01:15:47 ◼   ► Light mode is too light.

01:15:49 ◼   ► Yes it's blinding. It's like looking out across Antarctica completely frozen.

01:15:57 ◼   ► I have dark mode on all of my Macs now and I prefer that anyway but I wanted to see what

01:16:04 ◼   ► light mode looked like and it was too light for me. So I went straight back to dark mode again.

01:16:11 ◼   ► That's too much. The transparency is too aggressive. I've never liked the transparency on the Mac.

01:16:18 ◼   ► I don't particularly want to see the colors of my desktop wallpaper all the time.

01:16:24 ◼   ► So you know that's never been one that's never been something that I've been super

01:16:29 ◼   ► cool about. I actually have always and I have on my my iMac right now and have on all my Macs, I

01:16:36 ◼   ► actually reduce transparency and accessibility. But I, I turn that setting off so I could get a

01:16:43 ◼   ► sense for what the system actually wanted to look like. And I don't know if this is the case, but it

01:16:48 ◼   ► felt even more aggressive than I've seen it in the past. Yeah, I agree. First of all, I'm not a dark

01:16:55 ◼   ► mode person on the Mac. And I don't I don't like it on the Mac. But everything is too

01:17:01 ◼   ► bright. I have a really hard time telling what's active and inactive as far as windows.

01:17:06 ◼   ► You basically have to look for the stoplight controls to see if they're lit up or not.

01:17:09 ◼   ► I think they need to do a better job at distinguishing those things. As far as the transparency,

01:17:14 ◼   ► I agree with you, I generally don't like a lot of transparency in Mac OS. I don't like

01:17:19 ◼   ► the increased contrast setting because I don't like the thin border that goes on everything,

01:17:24 ◼   ► which I guess is how you use your Mac, right?

01:17:26 ◼   ► - Okay, I thought that was the contrast

01:17:30 ◼   ► that added the border.

01:17:32 ◼   ► - Oh yes, sorry, increase contrast as the border

01:17:35 ◼   ► and then reduce transparency,

01:17:37 ◼   ► just turned off the transparency,

01:17:39 ◼   ► which makes everything just solid white.

01:17:41 ◼   ► - I used increased contrast until I got onto Mojave

01:17:46 ◼   ► and Mojave became too aggressive, so I turned that off.

01:17:52 ◼   ► In previous versions of Mac OS, I had used the increased contrast, but it became a little

01:17:58 ◼   ► bit too much.

01:18:01 ◼   ► They added this thin white line in dark mode.

01:18:04 ◼   ► I actually think the reason that I changed it is because I moved to dark mode.

01:18:09 ◼   ► In light mode, I actually found it nicer because it added a thin dark line to everything and

01:18:15 ◼   ► I like that.

01:18:16 ◼   ► But in dark mode, it adds a thin white line and that looks weird to me.

01:18:20 ◼   ► I don't know why.

01:18:22 ◼   ► I kind of liked the fact that my Mac looked like it was in a comic book or

01:18:25 ◼   ► something. I don't know. Uh, but I turn that off. But reduce transparency.

01:18:29 ◼   ► I will turn on reduce transparency again.

01:18:33 ◼   ► Like when I actually upgrade whatever machine I upgrade to big Sur whenever I do

01:18:37 ◼   ► that. Um, but I,

01:18:39 ◼   ► I wanted to keep it that setting off for now. So I had the experience,

01:18:44 ◼   ► but I've, you know, for me, I just, I don't like it. I don't,

01:18:48 ◼   ► I don't really get it for a windowed system.

01:18:53 ◼   ► It doesn't make sense to me.

01:18:55 ◼   ► I don't know what it adds.

01:18:57 ◼   ► I know Apple will tell me that they want it to be like adding layers, but I think that

01:19:03 ◼   ► that works without the transparency.

01:19:08 ◼   ► It muddies things up for me visually in a way that I don't like.

01:19:11 ◼   ► I like the new alert style.

01:19:15 ◼   ► I like the center.

01:19:17 ◼   ► I think it looks modern.

01:19:18 ◼   ► Like honestly, the previous style has been around for so long and I just ignored all

01:19:22 ◼   ► the alerts.

01:19:23 ◼   ► But at least I, because these ones look different, I pay more attention to them.

01:19:27 ◼   ► I have no problem with it.

01:19:28 ◼   ► I think it looks fine.

01:19:30 ◼   ► What's funny is Safari has had these new style on the Mac for a year now, maybe longer.

01:19:35 ◼   ► And so if you haven't seen it, it is a white semi-transparent round-wrecked box centered

01:19:43 ◼   ► in the application window.

01:19:45 ◼   ► Now what's supposed to happen is the application window dims and so the alert stands out more.

01:19:51 ◼   ► That is very broken in the beta.

01:19:53 ◼   ► Some of Apple's apps do it, some of them don't.

01:19:55 ◼   ► But that'll be the overall style.

01:19:57 ◼   ► Again, matching what iOS and iPadOS use for their alert styles and what they've used basically

01:20:03 ◼   ► since iOS 7.

01:20:05 ◼   ► That's centered white box.

01:20:06 ◼   ► Yeah, I've come around to it.

01:20:07 ◼   ► I do think the other system was old.

01:20:10 ◼   ► I think this is one of those concessions to,

01:20:13 ◼   ► hey, there's a lot of iPad and iPhone apps coming over,

01:20:16 ◼   ► and it's really gonna be weird if alerts look one way

01:20:20 ◼   ► in one type of app and another way elsewhere.

01:20:23 ◼   ► And so they just made them all the new style.

01:20:25 ◼   ► - Might as well.

01:20:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't love it, but it is,

01:20:29 ◼   ► I understand why they did it,

01:20:30 ◼   ► and I can get behind it with some time.

01:20:34 ◼   ► - I really like the rounded corners on Windows.

01:20:37 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:20:37 ◼   ► - Just feels nice.

01:20:38 ◼   ► Again, the difference sometimes just adds to the idea of the modern feeling, that it

01:20:44 ◼   ► being different.

01:20:46 ◼   ► It looks, I mean, it's very, very, very clear that future Macs are going to have rounded

01:20:51 ◼   ► corners because when you put a window in the corner on the bottom, you get these little

01:20:57 ◼   ► pixels peeking through and it's like, there's no way that that's what they're going to keep,

01:21:01 ◼   ► right?

01:21:02 ◼   ► because I know that there's like a slight rounding to the Mac corners now, but with

01:21:08 ◼   ► the new with Big Sur because the corner is much more aggressive. When you drag it into

01:21:13 ◼   ► the bottom right, you see like a bunch of pixels like just peeking through and that

01:21:16 ◼   ► looks really weird to me.

01:21:18 ◼   ► It does.

01:21:19 ◼   ► I would love the rounded corners idea anyway, because again, it will look different. Like

01:21:24 ◼   ► just make stuff weird and different. Like that's kind of the world that we're going

01:21:27 ◼   ► to be into.

01:21:29 ◼   ► One of the things I do like about Big Sur which comes in a bunch of ways is visual consistencies.

01:21:34 ◼   ► So the widgets being the same, like visual and they are actually the same, they're all

01:21:38 ◼   ► SwiftUI right?

01:21:39 ◼   ► I like that, I like that they look the same.

01:21:42 ◼   ► And I like the idea of apps that I use even if they're Mac apps and iOS apps having the

01:21:49 ◼   ► same visual style with the widgets.

01:21:52 ◼   ► I like the visual consistencies of iPadOS in Apple's apps, like the toolbars, the sidebars.

01:21:58 ◼   ► I like that that looks the same.

01:22:00 ◼   ► I like it because it makes my iPad feel closer to a Mac, which is cool in its own way.

01:22:06 ◼   ► But also so these applications, I feel more at home in them no matter what device I'm

01:22:11 ◼   ► using.

01:22:12 ◼   ► I don't have to rethink every time.

01:22:14 ◼   ► I like that.

01:22:15 ◼   ► The same way of messages having the full experience.

01:22:20 ◼   ► This has taken way too long.

01:22:24 ◼   ► Using it now and getting all of the same features and it actually looking the same as other

01:22:27 ◼   ► platforms is almost like it feels surprising now because I've been so used

01:22:32 ◼   ► to as everybody else has with messages lagging like multiple years behind on

01:22:37 ◼   ► the Mac so I'm very happy that they have given messages to capitalist treatment

01:22:41 ◼   ► so this won't happen anymore I like the new look of Safari I really

01:22:47 ◼   ► love that tab preview it's really cool you want to explain that to people so

01:22:51 ◼   ► basically now when you hover over a tab I mean they've changed a bunch of stuff

01:22:55 ◼   ► anyway to kind of make the tabs bigger so you can tap on them with your finger

01:23:00 ◼   ► probably and like visually more appealing and they all by default have

01:23:04 ◼   ► like colorful favicons but now when you hover over a tab you actually it like

01:23:10 ◼   ► pops down and shows you a preview of the window itself which is just a nice way

01:23:16 ◼   ► to visually work out what you want to be looking at without click click click

01:23:21 ◼   ► click oh that's the tab that I want if you are a person who has lots and lots

01:23:24 ◼   ► and lots of tabs, especially when the text disappears because you have so many tabs.

01:23:30 ◼   ► So yeah, overall I would say I am very excited about the visual design of Big Sur. It is,

01:23:37 ◼   ► as I expected when I first saw the videos, more akin to my own personal styles which

01:23:43 ◼   ► have been informed by a heavy usage of iOS and iPadOS over the last decade. I have, it's

01:23:50 ◼   ► very clear, right? Like I have moved away from the Mac as my personal favorite primary platform,

01:23:56 ◼   ► so have become indoctrinated in many ways into the ways that iOS-based devices work. So having

01:24:04 ◼   ► some more visual consistency coming into the Mac along with iOS and iPadOS applications finding

01:24:12 ◼   ► their way into the Mac as well, I think is a good thing. Now what I also really appreciate is that

01:24:19 ◼   ► they are not doing anything to undermine the Mac's power when they're doing this.

01:24:25 ◼   ► The Mac is still as powerful, they're not taking big features away, they're not changing how the

01:24:33 ◼   ► Mac works, but they are quote unquote modernising the visual design. Now you can either like or not

01:24:41 ◼   ► like it, but you cannot deny that it is more modern because a lot of the things they've

01:24:46 ◼   ► changed have been the same way on the Mac for a very long time right and they

01:24:53 ◼   ► are now making some of these changes to fit the design they have on their newer

01:25:00 ◼   ► platforms which now are also getting old but like there's only so much they can

01:25:06 ◼   ► change at once I think this is a good thing and my hope would be that along

01:25:11 ◼   ► with stuff like catalyst and Swift UI they will actually keep the visual

01:25:19 ◼   ► design of the operating systems closer together and in lockstep from now.

01:25:24 ◼   ► I expect to see that yeah. Because if they make big changes to iPad OS and

01:25:31 ◼   ► then the apps change visual style but the Mac operating system doesn't change

01:25:37 ◼   ► to match it, that's going to look even weirder than it ever did. Because then the applications

01:25:44 ◼   ► will start to look new in what will look like some kind of rickety old house or something.

01:25:50 ◼   ► So my hope would be that from now all of this stuff starts to move forward together, where I

01:25:57 ◼   ► think it's pretty clear that even with the changes that Apple have made to the Mac over the last few

01:26:05 ◼   ► years visually, it hasn't gotten that much more modern feeling. It still

01:26:11 ◼   ► feels undeniably like Mac OS X or OS X, but just a modernized version of OS X,

01:26:17 ◼   ► where I would argue that Big Sur in a lot of ways doesn't feel like OS X

01:26:23 ◼   ► anymore, but I think that's for the best. I mean if they didn't keep

01:26:29 ◼   ► moving that forward, then the point of this would be wasted. The whole idea is

01:26:33 ◼   ► these apps should work across as many platforms as they're available. To make that feel consistent

01:26:39 ◼   ► to a user, they'll have to look the same and work the same, which is why I think touch is coming,

01:26:43 ◼   ► which we've spoken about. But it is, yeah, it's a big deal. And I think it is. I think it's just

01:26:49 ◼   ► the beginning of all of Apple's platforms, at least iPhone, iPad and the Mac becoming much more

01:26:56 ◼   ► lockstep than they have ever been in the past. As a side note, I got to try out Sidecar for

01:27:04 ◼   ► the first time. I've never used it because I don't have a Mac that runs it. Well, that

01:27:10 ◼   ► I've used. Like, I think my Mac Mini does, but I've never tried it. But anyway, I tried

01:27:15 ◼   ► out Sidecar. Why doesn't your iMac Pro... Oh, because you're on High Sierra. Yeah. No,

01:27:19 ◼   ► I'm on Mojave. Oh, okay. Right, because Sidecar was a Catalina feature. That's right. It's

01:27:25 ◼   ► It's fantastic. It is incredibly smooth. I was so surprised how well it worked, how good

01:27:33 ◼   ► it looked. I think that they add way too much. I used it on an 11 inch. The kind of sidebar

01:27:40 ◼   ► on the left is way too large. Like where I think it's like where you can hit a bunch

01:27:44 ◼   ► of buttons and like I turned that off because I can turn it off. Yeah. And system preferences

01:27:50 ◼   ► on the Mac you can or you can change sides that it's on to you. Yeah. Cause that's the

01:27:54 ◼   ► thing like I couldn't work out where the settings would be right because it's

01:27:58 ◼   ► like I obviously they're on the Mac but like I was thinking like what I want to

01:28:02 ◼   ► change is what's on the iPad and there wasn't obvious settings so I didn't

01:28:07 ◼   ► think to look on the Mac you know it's kind of a weird thing super weird magic

01:28:13 ◼   ► keyboard or magic trackpad keyboard folio what is the magic keyboard for

01:28:18 ◼   ► iPad can use the keyboard not the trackpad that feels like a feature got

01:28:23 ◼   ► out of sync and I'd imagine that'll get very peculiar to me because I want I was

01:28:28 ◼   ► 14 on that iPad yeah and it's not fixed it wasn't yeah that iPad is on 14 and

01:28:35 ◼   ► the Mac wasn't big sir and it wasn't working I don't know because like the

01:28:38 ◼   ► thing that is weird to me is I use screens by Adobe and I can use my

01:28:44 ◼   ► trackpad and keyboard up with that when using a Mac right so that works so it

01:28:52 ◼   ► was just surprising to me that the Apple solution, I know they're different products, but like

01:28:56 ◼   ► that Apple hadn't found a way to make that work was very weird to me. I would then be

01:29:02 ◼   ► over here and I'd be typing, but then I would need to go back over here to, I don't know,

01:29:07 ◼   ► because for me, because the product is in its keyboard case, when I'm looking at that

01:29:13 ◼   ► screen, I am inclined to use the keyboard attached to it, right? That's just how I think,

01:29:17 ◼   ► right? Because I've already turned around to look at that machine. Oh, I'll just use

01:29:20 ◼   ► the keyboard and then try and use the trackpad and that doesn't work so they need to fix that

01:29:25 ◼   ► super weird um but sidecar as a product it's fantastic like that is a super super cool device

01:29:34 ◼   ► like to use for the device if you have both of them really really awesome i hadn't tried it

01:29:38 ◼   ► before really loved it but yeah big sir gets a big thumbs up from me i'm i'm into it like i can see

01:29:45 ◼   ► myself upgrading to it. There's a lot of stuff going on in there which is interesting and

01:29:53 ◼   ► useful but I actually want that version of Mac OS on my devices which is not a thing

01:29:58 ◼   ► that I have felt for a while because there hasn't been anything enough to entice me and

01:30:05 ◼   ► then also have to deal with the problems that I may have to deal with. So I'll give it a

01:30:10 ◼   ► little bit of time to shake out most likely, make sure everyone I know that uses the same

01:30:14 ◼   ► gear that I use can get all this stuff done properly, but I expect that I'll be upgrading

01:30:19 ◼   ► to Big Sur pretty soon from release.

01:30:23 ◼   ► Bold, bold statement.

01:30:25 ◼   ► It's a cool version of Mac OS again.

01:30:28 ◼   ► Does logic work on it?

01:30:29 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:30:30 ◼   ► I haven't tried.

01:30:31 ◼   ► I mean, who can know?

01:30:33 ◼   ► All right.

01:30:34 ◼   ► If you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about, head on over to the website relay.fm/connected/302.

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01:31:23 ◼   ► you can probably just go find him somewhere and until next time Myke say

01:31:28 ◼   ► goodbye cheerio bye y'all