285: How Much RAM is in These Potatoes?


00:00:00   I got the episode number right.

00:00:01   I'm gonna get the person right.

00:00:03   I'm gonna do it correctly.

00:00:04   - You haven't started talking yet.

00:00:05   How do you know you got it right?

00:00:07   - Yeah, you don't know.

00:00:08   You might get it really wrong now.

00:00:09   You're gonna get all up in your head about it.

00:00:11   - Now you're gonna get it wrong for sure.

00:00:13   - Again. - You're gonna say 286.

00:00:15   Think of 286. - Stop.

00:00:16   - While you're saying 285.

00:00:17   - Think of 286 and you're joined by Jason and John.

00:00:21   (upbeat music)

00:00:28   Hello and welcome to Connected episode 285.

00:00:32   It is made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:34   Pingdom, Direct Mail, and Indeed.

00:00:37   My name is Stephen Hackett,

00:00:38   and I am joined by Mr. Myke Hurley.

00:00:40   - I'm so proud of you.

00:00:41   You did it. - Thank you.

00:00:42   - Well, this far, you got this far.

00:00:44   - And we're joined by Federico Vittucci.

00:00:46   - Yeah, I'm locked inside.

00:00:47   I'm at home, have been at home for a few days.

00:00:49   - Yep, self-quarantine.

00:00:51   Well, actually. - Well, not self.

00:00:52   - You're not in self-quarantine, are you?

00:00:54   You're in full on, you're not allowed to leave your house.

00:00:56   - Government imposed. - The government said so.

00:00:58   Yeah. Yeah. It's not really self-imposed at that point, is it?

00:01:01   Well, I was, I was like before the Thailand government told us that the entire country

00:01:08   was a, was on lockdown. We were, my girlfriend and I were already trying to stay at home

00:01:14   as much as possible, like as a precaution, but now it's official so we have to, we can

00:01:18   go out for like the daily essentials. Like if you need to go buy groceries or if you

00:01:26   need to go to work, which we don't because we work from home, or if you have an emergency.

00:01:31   You can walk the dog outside but it's a short walk and try to avoid people basically and

00:01:38   everything else is pretty much forbidden right now.

00:01:41   Are people avoiding each other? Like do people cross the street and stuff like that?

00:01:45   Yeah, you can tell.

00:01:46   That's good though, that's what you want.

00:01:49   We were able to go to the grocery store yesterday and obviously everybody was wearing face masks

00:01:56   which we try to buy, but basically every pharmacy or online store is sold out at the moment?

00:02:02   It doesn't help you, right? You know that, right? Like, well, that's the thinking. It's

00:02:06   for people who are sick, it's not for people that are healthy.

00:02:08   Sort of peer pressure situation, right?

00:02:11   I would, in your situation, I would try and buy one too, right? But like, I don't think

00:02:17   it's worth panicking if you can't. But like, if everyone around you is wearing one, you

00:02:22   would feel like you were the sick person if you were.

00:02:25   Exactly. So yesterday I went to the grocery store and everybody was wearing them, both

00:02:30   the staff and the, you know, the, the customers. And I was not because I, I don't have one

00:02:36   and I felt so out of place. It was like this eerie situation of everybody wearing face

00:02:40   masks and I wasn't. And so I was like, nope. The next time I go, I got to make sure that

00:02:46   I have one because I felt so out of place. Do you have anything at home that you could

00:02:50   like fashion into one, you know, like so you could, it looks like you're pretending.

00:02:54   Without like using a scarf or something, but I'm not sure. So in any case, we're at home

00:03:01   and we're fine, we're just, you know, lots of time to clean the house and reorganize

00:03:07   my shortcuts or play video games, get some writing done, you know, all the, you know,

00:03:12   got plenty of time here, so.

00:03:13   I would like to at this point make my official petition to Nintendo to release the Animal

00:03:20   Crossing early. Animal Crossing is due out on the 20th, they should release it now so

00:03:25   we can all play it and then our quarantine is fine. That's just my official petition

00:03:30   at this stage.

00:03:31   I agree with that. Steven, what do you think of the Animal Crossing?

00:03:34   I'm so pumped.

00:03:35   Yeah. What are you going to do first in Animal Crossing?

00:03:38   I think it's probably going to be peaceful because you guys will be busy and I won't

00:03:41   any text messages to answer. So I'm gonna enjoy some relaxing time.

00:03:45   No, but like, when you get Animal Crossing, because you know all about it, what will be

00:03:50   the first thing that you do in Animal Crossing?

00:03:52   Well, honestly, I'm probably just gonna try to catch them all.

00:03:55   Ah, right, okay.

00:03:57   All the bugs, because you can catch bugs, like butterflies and fish.

00:04:02   Well, make sure you open a radar, because that's the only way you can report the bugs.

00:04:06   Wow.

00:04:07   Oh, wow.

00:04:08   Wow.

00:04:09   That is not even a dad joke anymore. That's just a sad nerd joke.

00:04:14   It's a Steven joke.

00:04:15   stevensjokes.com

00:04:17   I'm not buying any more domains.

00:04:19   .com

00:04:21   Federico, I think I told you this, my mom called me to check onto you.

00:04:24   So you have lots of people concerned.

00:04:27   And we're glad that you're okay and we hope that it turns around.

00:04:30   I was telling my wife the other night that if it comes to that here,

00:04:34   where people have to stay at home and work from home,

00:04:37   that's really no difference for me.

00:04:39   I know will be like quote working from home and I'll just be out here making podcast keeping the podcast empire running

00:04:45   It's a great time to have signed a lease on a studio space. Oh my just perfect time

00:04:51   To have done that just whenever one's supposed to stay at home. So so going great. Oh, yeah

00:04:59   Well, look, let's cheer everybody up and talk about the home pod. Oh

00:05:02   Is that your definition of cheering everybody up? Okay?

00:05:06   Pandemic or the HomePod like the HomePod is not great, but it's better than a pandemic. Can we agree on that? Sure

00:05:11   Yes, I'll go with that. So we've been speaking about

00:05:14   use of HomePod and

00:05:17   Siri and voice assistants in multilingual homes

00:05:21   And we have this really interesting email from Eric who wrote in

00:05:24   Saying that they live in Belgium where Dutch and French are both spoken

00:05:29   but they speak English at work and they use English on Eric uses English and all of their devices and

00:05:36   I think he is confirming what we sort of thought is that English, he says English

00:05:41   Siri seems to be triggered by French easily thinking that maybe you know Siri

00:05:48   in different languages is tuned for different things and it doesn't tune out

00:05:52   you know the English or the French phrase if it's set in another

00:05:56   language. I think it's what we were saying but it's just interesting that it

00:05:59   seems to be an issue other places as well. It's good to get more anecdotal

00:06:04   evidence of this thing. But like I think that is it, right? Like it is while Siri is accidentally

00:06:11   triggered a lot everywhere, it may have been particularly worse for Federico because it

00:06:17   couldn't understand, like it was getting triggered by words it wasn't trying to filter out, I

00:06:22   guess.

00:06:23   But also lots of listeners wrote in, they sent me messages and tweets saying that, as

00:06:28   As I mentioned last week, also, their series was being accidentally triggered by a dog's

00:06:35   name or a partner's name at home. So the anecdotal evidence is sort of mounting up over here,

00:06:44   especially with dog names. So that's a really fascinating data point. It's really surprising

00:06:50   to me that Apple got this wrong. Like, we live in a multilingual world and I know that

00:06:55   the vast majority of Americans don't speak multiple languages, but in Europe lots of people do.

00:07:01   And I think that's... The argument that could be made was like, well, they didn't release it in

00:07:05   Italy, but that's then also saying that there aren't people in America that speak Italian at

00:07:10   home. Right, it's just... Right? It seems, I don't know, but it seems to be like that sort of like

00:07:14   American bias that we've mentioned many times on the show before. Like, it's not like the rest of

00:07:21   of the world is like California where most people only speak English. Like a lot of people

00:07:25   speak multiple languages at home and maybe watch, I don't know, maybe watch TV shows

00:07:30   in different languages that is not English. So it's very surprising to me, honestly, the

00:07:36   more the more I get tweets from people and messages from people about this, I'm really

00:07:41   surprised. Also, it's the one week update that Siri has been off on our home pods. Oh,

00:07:48   We're fine, we're fine. So very famously Sylvia listened to the episode last week, she was very pleased.

00:07:54   She mentioned...

00:07:55   Finally a good episode, I think was her tweet.

00:07:58   Come on Sylvia, throw us a bone here, you know? There must have been at least one good one.

00:08:03   No, she will not throw any bone.

00:08:05   No? Okay.

00:08:07   It's been a week and we are very happy. No more accidental activations here.

00:08:14   We've been using the HomePods as music speakers.

00:08:17   It's fine.

00:08:17   We haven't really noticed the absence of Siri.

00:08:21   I've been using it on my phone and it's okay.

00:08:24   - I do want to add before we move on

00:08:25   that Eric is using the HomePod in Belgium

00:08:28   and it doesn't seem to be sold there.

00:08:30   So it's an imported HomePod like yours is.

00:08:32   And I want to hear from somebody who, you know,

00:08:35   maybe lives in a supported country.

00:08:36   Maybe that's, I don't know.

00:08:38   I feel like it's just that Siri's bad.

00:08:40   That doesn't really matter if it's imported or not.

00:08:42   But if you have this issue, please let us know.

00:08:44   Real quick, before we leave, follow up,

00:08:46   I just want to point people to stephensmerch.com.

00:08:50   - Dot com.

00:08:51   - Dot com.

00:08:52   - It's one week to go,

00:08:53   and those T-shirts will be gone forever.

00:08:55   Seven days left from this recording.

00:08:57   So if you're listening to the next episode,

00:08:59   you've already missed the window.

00:09:01   Also, you're in the future, so congratulations

00:09:04   for making it another week.

00:09:05   But I'd love if people go check that out.

00:09:07   All right, Myke, I had a very strange morning.

00:09:10   I was, you know, living my life, doing my things, and suddenly I get a bunch of emails

00:09:16   that someone in London is logging into a bunch of Relay FM Twitter accounts.

00:09:21   I assume it was you and that we haven't been hacked.

00:09:24   I just am now asking you about this, so I guess if we've been taken over it's too late.

00:09:29   What's going on, buddy?

00:09:30   So I was woken up this morning with no alarm.

00:09:33   My alarm didn't go off this morning because my iPhone was just stuck on the Apple logo

00:09:38   screen.

00:09:39   That was why that was just my phone this morning.

00:09:42   I knew what to do then, right?

00:09:47   You reset the phone, you do the button thing,

00:09:49   the up, down, hold, right?

00:09:51   I did that three times, did not work.

00:09:55   It would not come back to life.

00:09:57   Like, I would even watch the phone reboot,

00:10:00   like it would have the Apple logo there for a while,

00:10:02   and then it would redo it again, right?

00:10:04   Like the screen would go black for a second,

00:10:06   so it was like trying to bring itself back to life.

00:10:09   Side note, it's crazy that Apple doesn't have the top Google search result for resetting iPhones.

00:10:14   Is it iMore?

00:10:15   It's everyone else except them, right? Like, depending on the words that you use,

00:10:20   sometimes they're like at the bottom of the first page. So that just seems wild to me that they

00:10:25   haven't worked that out somehow. But so time for recovery mode was my morning. So I plugged my

00:10:33   iPhone into my Mac. iTunes first got stuck downloading an iOS update. It said zero seconds

00:10:40   remaining for a while so then I had to quit iTunes. As soon as I quit iTunes, the update

00:10:45   that iTunes needed to do then completed, which was weird, although it jumped to two minutes

00:10:52   before completing and then downloaded. I plugged it in and it said try and do an update. I

00:10:58   tried to do the update and I was just given the fun error of your iPhone cannot be updated,

00:11:02   must restore to factory settings. So I did the restore back to the Apple logo,

00:11:07   waited for 20 minutes, nothing happened, my Mac wasn't doing anything, nothing was

00:11:12   happening, so I restored again. Then I'd never heard of activation lock before

00:11:17   but that's a clever feature where if you have activation lock on then somebody

00:11:23   else can't just set up your iPhone, it needs your iCloud information so that's

00:11:27   cool I guess. So yeah, I did two restores then the phone came to life. I didn't have

00:11:35   another iPhone to do the quick setup feature because the iPhone was my iPhone. So I used

00:11:41   my iPad, you know, you do the quick like when you use the camera and it has that little

00:11:45   Apple watch like orb thing, you know? So I did that. It was funny because it then turned

00:11:50   assistive touch on on my iPhone because I have it on on my iPad. I got the option to

00:11:55   do an iCloud restore. So I did that, but I still had to set everything up, right? So

00:11:59   Apple Pay, Face ID, all that stuff. And then iCloud restore began and it's been restoring

00:12:05   all day. And I hate it because I'm not prepared for this, right? Like just an iCloud restore

00:12:11   in your life is frustrating when it's not new phone time because you're not ready for

00:12:16   it. So like, I have apps that have lost their data. I have apps that need that had downloaded

00:12:21   stuff that needs to be redownloaded. Everything's getting messed up. I have to log back into

00:12:25   everything back into one parser, back into all my email accounts, back into my calendar.

00:12:30   Like I have to log back into everything. And what I hate most about all this kind of stuff

00:12:35   is that you don't realize what's gone wrong on your phone until you encounter it when

00:12:40   you're trying to use it. And I hate the stuff like why does Apple music not just redownload

00:12:46   my music. Why do I have to manually re-download music again? Anyway, I hate it. I'm now having

00:12:52   to reset preferences for apps because now apps are doing things I don't want them to

00:12:55   do. And I have no idea why this happened because I don't have, uh, I do manual updates. Like

00:13:02   I don't know why this happened. So that was my morning. My phone blew up.

00:13:06   And you don't know why. That's the worst part.

00:13:09   No, I have no idea. I absolutely no idea. The only thing that I knew was going on was

00:13:14   was that my Apple Watch was scheduled for an update.

00:13:17   But that shouldn't basically,

00:13:19   and I know everybody loves this, brick my phone.

00:13:21   The thing is, I know this isn't the world's biggest problem

00:13:23   or whatever, but if I was catching a flight today,

00:13:28   I just wouldn't have woke up.

00:13:30   - What you need is a little baby face mask for your phone.

00:13:34   - To stop the bugs, stop the viruses?

00:13:36   Yeah, you're probably right.

00:13:37   But anyway, I don't really have anything to say

00:13:39   other than one, I hated that this happened,

00:13:41   and two, I really wish the iCloud restore was better.

00:13:43   Yeah, that's really upsetting because now like part of you is never going to trust that

00:13:47   phone again.

00:13:48   No, I mean, well, at the moment I don't trust it because like I know stuff's not signed

00:13:52   in properly, right?

00:13:54   So like what data that I need to have access to will I not have access to because I wasn't

00:14:00   thinking about it, you know?

00:14:01   Well, even beyond that, like, is it going to randomly do this again?

00:14:05   Like, exactly.

00:14:06   Like so now the next time I need to, like, I've like, oh, you must be up at this time

00:14:10   or something terrible is going to happen.

00:14:13   I'm going to have this in the back of my head now.

00:14:15   Yeah, I'm so excited about all my banking apps.

00:14:18   I sign back into all of those, which is like the worst thing in the world.

00:14:22   Like resigning back into banking apps.

00:14:25   It's terrible.

00:14:26   They ask you for like a PIN code and all that sort of like. Yeah.

00:14:30   Which are usually generated by your previous device.

00:14:34   Well, but I don't have one.

00:14:36   It's this one.

00:14:37   It's been a was a fun and unexpected morning for me.

00:14:41   That is terrible.

00:14:43   is my conclusion.

00:14:45   Yes.

00:14:45   - Yep, I have nothing to say on it except I just hated it

00:14:48   and I just had to share it somewhere so I told you.

00:14:50   - Thank you for sharing that with us.

00:14:53   - We have a lot to get into this week.

00:14:55   The rumor wars are heating up,

00:14:57   but we're gonna take a break

00:14:58   and talk about our first sponsor.

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00:16:19   Right, so like we said, it is rumor war.

00:16:22   Nine to five Mac and Mac rumors have people in the field.

00:16:25   - Bowing it out. - They've got Mac books.

00:16:27   They're blogging.

00:16:29   They're hitting each other with iPads.

00:16:31   It's very messy.

00:16:32   It seems that there is some,

00:16:34   at least one early version of iOS 14 floating around,

00:16:37   somehow obtained a bill from December.

00:16:40   There's a lot of this stuff.

00:16:43   We can't possibly cover all of it today in depth.

00:16:46   We're going to talk about kind of what's been going on

00:16:48   the last couple of days, and there's some other topics

00:16:50   that we're going to get to more in coming episodes.

00:16:54   I think we all have a lot to say,

00:16:55   for instance, about cursor support on iPad OS.

00:16:58   We will get to that, just not today.

00:17:00   We're going to kind of deal with what's the newest stuff

00:17:02   as we're recording this on March 11th.

00:17:04   - Yeah, 'cause there's probably still,

00:17:06   may potentially still more to come, right?

00:17:08   I think first off, let's talk about iMessage.

00:17:10   So this is a super interesting one. This one came from MacRumors.

00:17:13   Effectively, it seems like, again, we will just take it presumed that all of this stuff is coming to iOS 14

00:17:21   so we don't have to put like presupposing on every single thing, right?

00:17:25   It's like, maybe if such and such, I don't know, just assume we are aware that it might not ship.

00:17:31   For the time being, we will assume that all of this is going to be in iOS 14.

00:17:36   So it looks like Apple is trying to turn iMessage groups into a much more useful tool,

00:17:43   which is great. And this is all stuff that I have wanted for iMessage groups. So @mentions

00:17:48   and group threads, which would be great. So I could be like @federico and he would get a

00:17:52   notification, which would mean that they may be beefing up the way that notifications or

00:17:56   do not disturb works for group threads and iMessage, because then it might be more Slack

00:18:01   like in that you could say you know only alert me to this thread if my name is mentioned which would

00:18:07   be great i would love that uh while you're at it apple give me a way to change the way that i'm

00:18:13   alerted for when people use tapback stuff don't need push notifications for every thumb up on a

00:18:19   message don't need them don't need that it's not necessary but so anyway the ability to retract

00:18:25   messages with UI showing a message has been retracted. This is very interesting.

00:18:31   Not sure why particularly they would add this but it's a guess it's a cool

00:18:36   feature to have. Typing indicators inside of group threads I would like this a lot

00:18:41   so you get this at the moment right where you get like the bouncing three

00:18:44   dots of doom right when you're waiting for a message to come in. Oh it's the

00:18:47   worst one then they go away? Oh yeah. Oh no they're rethinking it. This is a big

00:18:52   thing for the kids Steven. Oh I know! I hang out with youth. Oh. Do you? I see them. Sometimes.

00:19:00   Ok that's good. So this would be I guess maybe Steven's icon would pop up and there would

00:19:05   be a typing indicator next to it. Maybe they will have a many people, several people are

00:19:09   typing which is one of my favourite Slack things by the way. Several people are typing.

00:19:13   It's just like a very good, it's very good. I think that's the name of their company blog

00:19:17   as well. It is very clever. Yeah. And then this is a weird one enhancements to the slash

00:19:24   me command. Steven is the resident old man. Could you explain what that is to the youth

00:19:29   listening? Yes. So if you did, if you're in messages on the Mac and you type forward slash

00:19:35   me with no space and then type creates notifications for Myke, then it goes in the thread as you

00:19:43   know, Steven Hackett creates notifications for Myke. You just did. You just did that.

00:19:47   I did. And it shows up in our group thread with Federico and John. And it's not like

00:19:52   I sent the message. It's kind of in line with the time. It's a holdover. And I want to talk

00:19:57   about this in a second from the I chat days, but it never made it to the iOS versions of

00:20:01   messages. So you can do this on the Mac, but you can't send them from iOS.

00:20:07   So I think that's that's kind of it from the report. But this is all stuff that I would

00:20:12   I think all of us would love to see. Making group threads more powerful and useful would

00:20:19   be great. I would greatly love that because I have a couple of threads that I use every

00:20:24   single day and they can get a bit messy.

00:20:27   Yeah, I mean, these features are like the absolute basics to make sure that iMessage

00:20:33   can live on the same, like, on the same playing field as, you know, WhatsApp or Telegram or

00:20:41   Messenger, all these features are the very basics for any group, modern group conversation.

00:20:47   And the fact that iMessage, it got apps and stickers and a bunch of enhancements.

00:20:53   The new search, for example, in iMessage, that lets you find all images and links and

00:20:58   documents, that's amazing, and I use it very frequently.

00:21:01   But in terms of the actual transcript, the actual conversation and controls around messages,

00:21:08   leaves a lot to be desired still, especially when you compare it like, I'm on a bunch of

00:21:13   WhatsApp groups and the kinds of controls that you get, like the ability to delete messages and

00:21:18   to have a thing that says this message was deleted. Those are the very basics and

00:21:23   notification settings, mute settings, it needs to offer more because competing apps are doing more,

00:21:32   people are flocking to those messaging apps and I don't think it's something that Apple wants.

00:21:37   I think Apple, especially because iMessage is so popular with the kids,

00:21:41   I think they need to make sure that those kids, and eventually when they grow up,

00:21:46   they keep using iMessage because it's more secure, because Apple has control and all.

00:21:52   Especially in a world where there may be options for new default apps.

00:21:58   It might be that Apple might feel like, and I hope they would,

00:22:02   that they have to actually compete more, that they don't just get to be the messaging app

00:22:07   because they are the built-in messaging app. That if people could then choose, say, WhatsApp

00:22:13   to be their default messaging app or whatever, that they might have to do a little bit more,

00:22:17   you know, to actually beef up the application. That's a very good point, yes, absolutely.

00:22:23   Like I expect to see that kind of thing, like maybe not so much in Messenger but in a lot

00:22:27   of other apps over time, I expect to see that Apple will do more feature parity than they've

00:22:31   done before because they want people to continue using their applications but

00:22:36   there will be less of a less of a like a requirement to do so like people won't

00:22:42   won't have to anymore and I think that will make a change. Looking at you mail

00:22:48   team. I mean mail is the actual real poster child for this right it's like

00:22:54   people like mail because of it's built into the system it runs well it looks

00:22:58   nice and stuff, but it is incredibly under-powered compared to other types of mail applications.

00:23:05   And whether you're an email purist like Casey List or not, it's still something that people

00:23:09   want to see some more of these features coming in.

00:23:11   I did want to talk about Messages, Roots, just for a second, because even now, before

00:23:16   they add anything else to it, there are a bunch of features of iMessage that aren't

00:23:21   on the Mac, that are just on iOS and iPadOS.

00:23:25   Mostly it's silly stuff like the effects and that sort of thing.

00:23:28   But it really points out that Messages on the Mac is living inside the dead skin of

00:23:35   iChat.

00:23:36   It moved in and kicked AIM out and now it's reanimated it.

00:23:41   It's a very upsetting metaphor.

00:23:42   That is quite the image, Stephen.

00:23:45   Kept going with that one.

00:23:46   You know what you said about Messages on the Mac serve as much as Messages on iOS.

00:23:52   It goes both ways though, because Messages on the Mac you can use with other chat clients,

00:23:57   So I mean, it's not a great feature, but it's you can you can sign into like aim and stuff,

00:24:02   right on message.

00:24:03   No, that's all gone. That's all been gone for a long time. Well, not not on my version

00:24:07   of Mac OS. Well, aim itself is gone. So you're not signing into anything. Well, you know

00:24:11   what I'm saying? I Google Talk or whatever. Yeah, that's gone now to on. Okay, you got

00:24:17   on your Mac, man. It's I don't wanna well, especially still running snow leopard over

00:24:22   Leave me alone.

00:24:23   And it's just, it's time, I mean, messages is so important to Apple.

00:24:27   Like one thing we haven't really touched on, but it is related to the default apps thing

00:24:32   is iMessage is a huge reason for iPhone lock-in, right?

00:24:36   A lot of people stay on the iPhone because of iMessage, which is why I think they're

00:24:40   never going to bring it to Android.

00:24:42   It would only make sense to extend that to the Mac, but so far messages is like, like

00:24:46   I said, it's like some sort of zombie inside of iChat controlling its arms and strings.

00:24:50   And it would make sense to me if they're going to bring new features to do it all at once.

00:24:56   And maybe that means that Mac, the Mac app goes catalyst.

00:25:00   And so it really is the same application.

00:25:02   And that would be a bummer in some ways because the Mac app does do some things except nice

00:25:07   multi windows support.

00:25:08   You can address it with Apple script, it has some cool stuff that maybe we wouldn't get

00:25:12   with catalyst.

00:25:13   But I think if they're going to make a big features move with messages, I really hope

00:25:18   that we see it across all their platforms and not just the iPhone and iPad.

00:25:22   They would be creating more work for themselves if they didn't.

00:25:25   It just feels like at a certain point it's easier for all of these applications to come

00:25:29   together because they're just doubling up the work, surely.

00:25:34   We haven't seen Apple...

00:25:36   They've launched some Catalyst apps, but they haven't replaced any apps with Catalyst.

00:25:40   I mean, you could kind of argue that Podcast is, because it's Catalyst and that was a section

00:25:44   of iTunes, music and TV are based on the old iTunes thing.

00:25:48   So they haven't really replaced a system app with a catalyst version and I would argue

00:25:53   that messages would probably be a pretty good first candidate if all this other work is

00:25:58   going on.

00:26:00   Pencil kit rumors.

00:26:01   So there's a pencil kit is the software underlying the Apple pencil on the iPad.

00:26:08   There is...

00:26:09   Oh, underlining.

00:26:10   Sure.

00:26:11   It's good.

00:26:12   It's like a...

00:26:13   Oh.

00:26:14   Yeah, no, I didn't mean that but that's funny.

00:26:17   A new feature that allows for OCR recognition of handwritten text in text fields.

00:26:24   So in theory, this also came from MacRumors, that you would be able to use an Apple pencil

00:26:32   and just draw something out and the system will convert it into text which you could then send to somebody.

00:26:38   It seems like this could be available anywhere that you can use text input, but that there

00:26:45   would also be functionality inside of Pencilkit for third-party developers to integrate into

00:26:50   their app somehow.

00:26:51   That part is a little unclear for me.

00:26:53   If you can do it anywhere there's text, why does there also need to be a third-party tool?

00:26:58   But maybe that would be for other uses of it.

00:27:01   I don't know, but that you'd be able to turn handwriting into text more easily, which would

00:27:07   be lovely.

00:27:08   a really interesting feature to add now, but it's something that I have wanted in the past,

00:27:14   so I think that would be really great. I mean, so right now developers can use the Pencilkit API

00:27:19   to, like, if they want to offer like a drawing screen and they can just basically use the same

00:27:26   annotation UI that you see in Apple Notes or in Markup, for example, with the standard, like,

00:27:32   blank page and the palette of tools and colors at the bottom. So it wouldn't surprise me if

00:27:38   if it becomes like a new, like different PencilKit API

00:27:40   where a text field can either be typed into the keyboard

00:27:44   or the software keyboard, or if you have a pencil,

00:27:46   it automatically does its own OCR thing.

00:27:49   Right now, there is Pencil OCR support in Notes,

00:27:55   but in the sense that when you hand write in Apple Notes,

00:27:59   that handwritten text becomes searchable

00:28:04   after a few seconds,

00:28:05   with... Yeah, results can be questionable, I think.

00:28:10   Yeah, searchable OCR and taking your handwriting and turning it into text

00:28:15   are two very different problems, right?

00:28:17   There are two very different problems.

00:28:18   There's some shared tech, of course, under the hood.

00:28:23   Like, you still got to recognize whatever the user just wrote with a pencil.

00:28:29   But in one case, you got to make it searchable.

00:28:31   the other you gotta actually insert it as text into a field.

00:28:35   I mean like your error rate is different there, right? Like you can be way less accurate if

00:28:43   people are searching text because you've only got to match X percentage of words for somebody

00:28:48   to be able to get what they're looking for, but if you are saying that you're going to

00:28:51   take handwriting and turn it into text, your error rate has to be way different, like way

00:28:56   less.

00:28:57   But Steven...

00:28:58   Right, and that's a big, big thing.

00:28:59   you Stephen, wasn't this a feature of the Newton before?

00:29:06   Yeah, I mean that was the idea of the Newton. You would use handwriting for input and it would turn

00:29:10   your handwriting into text, so it would do all this stuff. To mix results, I would point people to

00:29:16   my podcast Flashback, episode one, where we talked about the Newton.

00:29:20   stephensmerch.com

00:29:22   But also Flashback episode one.

00:29:24   Oh, sorry, sorry.

00:29:25   Listen to it while wearing your new shirt.

00:29:28   Yeah. And it's not just the Newton, like Windows pin based PC stuff has been around forever. Again,

00:29:35   I'm not saying it's good or bad, but this is a thing that's been in the world. Apple is not

00:29:40   inventing this, but boy, it would be cool to be able to use your Apple pencil anywhere there's

00:29:45   text and it convert it for you. It's not necessarily for me, I find typing much faster than writing,

00:29:50   but I know a lot of people I think would like to use this or just to make things like note taking

00:29:56   more useful down the road. We're like, yeah, I hand wrote this, but now I actually need

00:30:00   text out of it to email it to somebody like all that stuff. This unlocks when you have

00:30:06   a tool like this. And if Apple does it in pencil kit, third party developers can put

00:30:10   it in their own app. So you could see a world where you can use this in GoodNotes or PDF

00:30:14   pen or a bunch of those other types of apps, not just Apple Notes, which I think would

00:30:19   be really key for this unlocking sort of a new experience for a lot of people. And now

00:30:24   every iPad supports the pencil, right? Even the mini? Is that right?

00:30:27   Yes, they all do, yeah.

00:30:29   They all do the latest ones, and most of them support the Apple Pencil 1, of course,

00:30:33   the Apple Pencil 2 still. iPad Pro only, but still. Basically the same stuff, yeah.

00:30:38   I want to get a new iPad mini with flat sides that works with the Apple Pencil 2.

00:30:45   That's what I want, because that just seems like a fun product.

00:30:48   Yeah, good luck with that.

00:30:50   Why?

00:30:51   I mean, I think it would be cool.

00:30:53   Wait, only last week we were talking about a new iPad Mini with Mini LED.

00:30:57   Yeah, we were.

00:30:58   I know.

00:30:59   I think it would be cool, but the Mini is like the... because it's cheap and at the

00:31:03   bottom of the list, I just don't see it getting that anytime super soon.

00:31:06   Maybe in a couple of years.

00:31:07   Oh, well, I want to see it.

00:31:09   It doesn't mean I need to see it this year.

00:31:11   It'd be like a super sweet reading device.

00:31:15   I would totally get one with the flat sides because I thought about getting an iPad Mini

00:31:19   when they were refreshed last year.

00:31:21   And then I realized, no, it's got,

00:31:22   and I think we actually mentioned this on the show.

00:31:24   Like I said, no, it's got the old design.

00:31:26   I don't want to get an iPad mini.

00:31:27   I want to get, I'm going to use the 11 inch iPad Pro,

00:31:30   like the basic one, like basic storage,

00:31:33   no cellular as my reading device,

00:31:35   because like it's got the modern look

00:31:37   and I don't want to use an iPad mini

00:31:39   that already looks old.

00:31:40   Even if I like, I buy a new iPad mini

00:31:42   and it looks already old to me,

00:31:43   like that feels like a waste of money.

00:31:45   I don't know.

00:31:46   So I absolutely agree with Myke.

00:31:48   I want to see an iPad mini with the flat sides and the pencil support.

00:31:52   Like that would be sweet.

00:31:53   Because I will assume that naturally all of the iPads will get flattened sides

00:31:58   to work with the Apple Pencil 2.

00:32:00   I guess eventually.

00:32:01   As the Pro gets an Apple Pencil 3, whatever that would end up being.

00:32:05   Yeah.

00:32:05   But you know, the Apple Pencil 2 is so much of a better product than Apple Pencil 1.

00:32:10   I can't imagine Apple going any other direction with it into the future.

00:32:14   Like we might be a couple of years away from that being in the rest of the line, but history

00:32:19   has shown that Apple will move the iPad Pro features down because it's just on a bit of

00:32:27   a delay, like a couple of year delay.

00:32:29   But every iPad except the mini now works of not only the Apple Pencil, but also a smart

00:32:34   keyboard.

00:32:35   Like it's the thing that they will do, but it just takes its time.

00:32:39   Which is exactly the same as it's been on laptops and desktops, right?

00:32:43   you establish a feature, the feature becomes normal, they come up with new features, so

00:32:48   they move the pro features down the line. It's just how you advance the technology, right? So

00:32:53   I expect it will happen within the next couple of years, but I would be really surprised if

00:32:59   the iPad mini still looks as it looks right now if they put that mini LED screen into it. I would

00:33:05   just be very surprised about that, but we have other rumors later on which could suggest that

00:33:13   Apple won't mind keeping some technology around for a while.

00:33:16   Anything else on pencil kit?

00:33:17   It's doing there's another thing that it's doing where it will do automatic filling of

00:33:22   shapes.

00:33:23   So you could draw a circle and it would automatically fill the circle with a color.

00:33:26   Oh, that'd be cool.

00:33:27   All right.

00:33:28   Let's take our second break.

00:33:30   How does that sound?

00:33:31   Sounds great.

00:33:32   Mm hmm.

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00:34:51   We have some 9 to 5 Mac rumors. Well, we've spoken about I think everything we've got

00:34:57   from Mac rumors that we're going to talk about today. The rest are from 9 to 5 Mac who've

00:35:00   been publishing more this week they kicked it all off. One of them is some

00:35:06   changes to the iOS 14 home screen. Believe it or not that is a thing that

00:35:10   seems like it could actually be happening with the biggest change being

00:35:14   a different way to see your apps with a possibility for listing your

00:35:20   applications in maybe alphabetical order there'll be some sorting options but

00:35:25   this is much more akin to the way that the Android app picker works, or maybe your Apple

00:35:32   Watch or something like that.

00:35:34   I've got the Watch in that list view. It's fantastic.

00:35:37   Oh, yeah, you use it with the ListView?

00:35:39   Oh, yeah, I hate the Honeycomb deal.

00:35:41   Me too.

00:35:42   Huh, interesting. I still use the Honeycomb because I don't really like looking at a list

00:35:47   of apps. I prefer looking at the icons myself, but I think the idea of a home screen on iOS

00:35:55   the iPad potentially is interesting for a bunch of reasons. The first one, 9to5Mac mentions

00:36:01   that you will be able to have multiple sorting options and maybe even serious suggestions.

00:36:07   So the combination of, for example, let me see the apps that I use the most or maybe

00:36:11   the apps that are frequently used and put them at the top of the list and everything

00:36:16   else.

00:36:17   Or new. Newly installed.

00:36:18   newly installed, you would be able to get different visualizations of your apps.

00:36:25   And if you're somebody with a lot of apps installed, like maybe John Voorhees comes

00:36:29   to mind, he's got like 600 apps on his phone, you will be able maybe to manage those apps

00:36:35   more quickly.

00:36:36   Like imagine if you can use ListView and display them by frequently used and then scroll to

00:36:43   the bottom, have a select button, select, select, select, and then delete a bunch of

00:36:47   apps all at the same time. Like that would be amazing. But also I was thinking

00:36:53   about the iPad and how maybe a list option could be a potential solution for

00:37:00   iPad multitasking, like as an application picker for... because you know we've been

00:37:05   talking about the complexities of the current drag-and-drop system for using

00:37:10   split view and slide over on the iPad. Maybe a list that shows you apps in a

00:37:15   more compact view with different sorting criteria, that could be maybe a potential solution.

00:37:23   Isn't that what we basically had though in the early days? Like how would this be different?

00:37:28   Not quite, because in the early days of iOS 9 it wasn't really a list, it was like a column of

00:37:34   like these cards, like these tiles. Three at a time, right? Yeah, it was in an order that no

00:37:41   human being could get their head around.

00:37:42   It was in a weird order of icons.

00:37:47   And it wasn't really compact because you could only see three at a time.

00:37:51   And it wasn't searchable either. Whereas here we're talking about an actual list.

00:37:55   So like the information density will go way up and with multiple sorting options.

00:38:01   And I am guessing search like in the mix as well.

00:38:05   So that would make it like, you know, fairly basic deal.

00:38:09   It's not it's nothing revolutionary.

00:38:11   It's a list, but maybe that's what it needs to be.

00:38:14   Like it's a basic list of your apps and you can sort them however you want

00:38:18   and you can find them quickly.

00:38:19   Maybe that's what it needs to be.

00:38:21   I mean, I've always used Android phones, but using a little bit more recently.

00:38:24   I like that I don't have to organize every single application. Right.

00:38:30   I have the apps that I want on like my first screen

00:38:34   and then everything else is just in an alphabetical list in the drawer.

00:38:37   Right, because I'm kind of fed up at this point of having to find a place for every application.

00:38:44   You know, like I just want them to be some like away somewhere, right? Because it's like and I

00:38:50   have to try and break it out of my brain because I search for every app anyway. So why do they need

00:38:54   to have places? Because it's kind of like, well, they're allowed to have places. So why shouldn't

00:38:58   they have a place? And it's just like, I can't, I just don't want to do it anymore. So being able

00:39:03   to just have one screen and then everything else just in like a drawer which is the way

00:39:09   that the system will do it that's what I want.

00:39:11   Like I know I could put everything else in just one big folder but I don't I just don't

00:39:16   like that like I would prefer there to be like just this list of everything and I open

00:39:21   up from the list like that I think that that would be really really good and I would be

00:39:25   very happy with that especially if it did do stuff like hey what about this one that

00:39:29   just installed or what about this stuff thing that you use all the time like at the top i think that

00:39:35   would be really great i hope for this another report is of this is very interesting the ability

00:39:42   for applications to be able to change your wallpaper so they'd be in a kind of a new

00:39:47   extension type of like wallpapers that you could uh download from the app store you see these

00:39:53   applications a lot and they're actually typically scam apps or they're like hey check out this

00:39:58   wallpaper pack and like but you you still have to just it's just a bunch of images that you save and

00:40:03   then you choose the one that you want but in theory this would uh enable somebody to be able

00:40:07   to create an application that would have a pack that you would be able to um would able to like

00:40:13   i don't know have cycle through or choose the one that you want and it automatically be assigned

00:40:17   but what i was thinking which i would like is you know to be able to say maybe download an app i

00:40:22   Apple have a system feature where I point at an album and it cycles through them.

00:40:27   Like I would like my home screen to stay static but my lock screen to maybe cycle

00:40:32   through images that I enjoy, you know? So like every time I pick up my phone is a

00:40:37   different image. I think I'd be kind of cute. I think I would like that. So we'll

00:40:42   see. I mean what do you guys think about this? So if I had to guess I would say

00:40:45   that Apple wants the wallpaper section of settings to become a place that can

00:40:51   be extended via third party apps.

00:40:54   So I wouldn't be surprised to see

00:40:56   like a new category of extensions

00:40:58   that can be wallpaper extensions.

00:41:00   And so you download apps from the App Store as before,

00:41:03   they contain an extension,

00:41:04   that extension shows up in settings wallpaper.

00:41:07   And there you will be able to browse wallpaper by app.

00:41:10   So you will have the default Apple stuff,

00:41:13   which according to 9to5Mac will be organized

00:41:16   with new categories like flowers and nature,

00:41:19   like that kind of stuff.

00:41:20   and you will also get third-party apps.

00:41:23   So I can imagine, like two things come to mind.

00:41:27   One, I can imagine that the shortcuts action

00:41:31   that we saw last year, the set wallpaper action,

00:41:35   this is how it will come back.

00:41:37   It was removed during the iOS 13 beta cycle.

00:41:40   There's a quite fun backstory there

00:41:43   that maybe we'll be able to share someday, but not today.

00:41:46   So it disappeared.

00:41:47   Maybe this is how it comes back

00:41:49   as an actual system feature of iOS 14

00:41:52   that ties into like which wallpaper do you wanna set?

00:41:56   Like you can choose a folder, you can choose a category,

00:42:00   and I can imagine like that action coming back

00:42:02   thanks to this new feature.

00:42:04   Second, and I guess you guys will laugh at me

00:42:07   for mentioning this, but I think this is what,

00:42:10   if this is true, right, and if developers can provide

00:42:12   their own wallpaper packs for iOS 14

00:42:15   and they actually show up at a system level.

00:42:17   This has the potential to do what iMessage stickers

00:42:22   and like didn't do.

00:42:24   Like the idea-- - I agree.

00:42:27   - Like because, you know,

00:42:28   the deep and open iMessage framework

00:42:31   and all that kind of stuff. - Oh my God.

00:42:32   - But the idea was that with--

00:42:34   - Deep and open wallpaper framework.

00:42:36   - With the stickers,

00:42:39   so the stickers were initially like advertised

00:42:42   as an opportunity for artists and creatives

00:42:46   to be able to share something that people could use

00:42:48   every day in iMessage conversations.

00:42:51   And to an extent that was true,

00:42:53   but the whole system was kind of clunky

00:42:56   and it was never updated and managing sticker packs

00:42:59   and iMessage apps was terrible,

00:43:00   so it didn't really catch on.

00:43:03   - And really it's just like Bitmoji

00:43:04   and nothing else, I think, for most people.

00:43:06   - But I think for wallpapers,

00:43:07   which is something that people obviously care a lot about,

00:43:11   that is something so personal,

00:43:13   like it changes the whole look of your device

00:43:15   and your home screen, your lock screen.

00:43:17   I think this has the potential to do even more

00:43:19   than I messaged stickers.

00:43:20   So I can imagine like if you're an artist

00:43:22   and if you make, I don't know, 3D wallpapers

00:43:25   or 2D wallpapers, or if you're a photographer,

00:43:27   you should be able in theory to make a wallpaper utility,

00:43:30   make it available on the App Store

00:43:32   and get paid for it, right?

00:43:35   So I think they should--

00:43:36   - Feels like the perfect subscription app.

00:43:38   - Yes, yes, like I was thinking about it,

00:43:40   like, imagine like you subscribe like one dollar a month and you get a new wallpaper

00:43:45   package month. Like, that would be amazing. And so I think they should do this. They should

00:43:49   absolutely do this. They should let creators monetize this, all this stuff. Like, let me

00:43:55   pay for good quality original and properly attributed wallpapers. And they also should

00:44:04   restore the shortcuts integration that was awesome last year and then it disappeared.

00:44:10   Nobody knows why. I know that a bunch of people, they still have their shortcuts with the set

00:44:16   wallpaper action from last year's beta. And now, of course, the action in iOS 13.4 says,

00:44:23   and in 13.3 for that matter, it says, "Action not available." And people, whenever a new

00:44:28   beta comes out, they open that shortcut and they check if the action has been restored.

00:44:34   I know that people on Reddit do this. It's sort of become like a meme. Every time there's

00:44:38   a new beta, people are like, "Yeah, no set wallpaper action yet." But they should do

00:44:44   this. They should make a comeback and have it be integrated with this system stuff.

00:44:50   I think that this is one of those features that really on the face of it seems relatively

00:44:57   simple but I think is something that a lot of users would want. It feels like a thing

00:45:03   that people will get and they'll be like, "Oh yeah, this is great. I want this." And

00:45:07   think one of the reasons it maybe makes a little bit more sense than sticker

00:45:11   packs is everybody needs a wallpaper. Like you have to have one, you know? So

00:45:20   like there is an inbuilt desire for people to be like "I don't know what I

00:45:24   what I want" or like "I want this picture of my family" or whatever but wouldn't it

00:45:28   be even nicer if you could have multiple pictures of your family that scroll

00:45:32   through like that's that's kind of what I want right so like I want my lock

00:45:36   screen to be like a bunch of pictures of family stuff or memories right and they

00:45:44   just scroll through so I have to just choose one I can have a bunch and like I

00:45:48   talk about this a lot I know I talk about this a lot but it's a feature

00:45:51   I've come to really love about my echo show that I can just have those photos

00:45:55   cycling through all the time and it's nice whenever I'm in the kitchen and I

00:45:59   see it like and me and Idina were talking about it today because I told

00:46:01   about this feature. And she was just like, "Oh, I feel like when I was younger and I'd

00:46:06   hear about digital photo frames, I thought they were stupid, and I also did." But she

00:46:10   says, "Oh, but I suppose it's now because I've taken way more pictures that I like this

00:46:16   kind of feature." But as I said to her, which is what I think it is for both of us, we're

00:46:20   getting older and we're getting more nostalgic for things that we love in our lives or the

00:46:24   nice experiences, so we enjoy looking at photos more. I think it's more that than the technology's

00:46:30   gotten better because I think that's what it is about myself where like I now look back at moments

00:46:36   in my life and look at them more fondly because I think that's just something that happens to you as

00:46:41   you get older but I think it'd be a great feature. I know that probably some people will not like

00:46:47   this but I'm going to say if they are doing this and they are opening up the App Store to wallpaper

00:46:53   utilities. If they want to combat the potential, you know, piracy aspect, they should make

00:47:00   these wallpapers a custom format that is not like a JPEG that you can extract and share

00:47:06   with people. And if they're the custom format, not only for that, but in a way that allows

00:47:13   wallpapers to support both light mode and dark mode. Because right now the default Apple

00:47:19   wallpapers they support that. I believe that's possible thanks to the . . . heave file format.

00:47:29   That's how they do it on the Mac, too. The default wallpaper on Catalina is actually

00:47:33   like six or seven images that it moves through throughout the day.

00:47:36   Right. And they should do the same on iOS. And on iOS, of course, you wouldn't be able

00:47:42   to get to those files anyway because of sandboxing.

00:47:46   So they should do that and allow like super easy in Xcode,

00:47:51   like even if you're not a developer,

00:47:54   just with sticker packs before, right?

00:47:55   You could use JPEGs or PNGs or animated PNGs.

00:48:00   And in this case, if you go with that approach,

00:48:03   you could say this wallpaper,

00:48:05   it switches automatically between light mode and dark mode.

00:48:08   So that would be nice.

00:48:09   - I do wonder what else they could do with this.

00:48:11   I think the light and dark mode thing is a super smart idea. And I think being able to rotate through a gallery

00:48:18   This is a smart idea again things you can do on the Mac things you can do on other platforms

00:48:23   But I would like to see them explore more with live photos

00:48:27   I mean so you can't set live photos as a wallpaper now

00:48:30   I don't know. I don't I haven't done it, but you can do it and you can set your own

00:48:35   But I think it would be cool if that format could also be smarter, you know for a long time

00:48:40   they've had the wallpaper that has like the, the circles and they kind of move around.

00:48:46   And I don't think that responds to like the accelerometer or anything in the phone.

00:48:49   Maybe it does a little bit but like what if live photos or something else like that could

00:48:54   make these more like interactive or lively?

00:48:57   Yeah, in a way just like subtle animations that looped or I mean something just to bring

00:49:01   it to life a little bit more.

00:49:02   I think it could be a fun way for creators to explore and create new things.

00:49:07   while we're on it I mean if these are built into applications could things

00:49:12   that I do in my life or with my phone change the wallpaper like if I leave my

00:49:18   house could I have a different wallpaper that right stuff or it starts like red

00:49:23   and then as you get more tasks done it slowly turns green that'd be fun I would

00:49:29   genuinely like something like that right so yeah like I think that kind of stuff

00:49:34   could be a lot of fun.

00:49:36   Like maybe you could have a wallpaper

00:49:38   that has a little colored ring around the edge

00:49:39   and that changes throughout the day or something.

00:49:42   Like if it was tied to applications

00:49:45   and applications could change the wallpaper

00:49:47   based on different parameters,

00:49:50   which doesn't seem outside of possibility,

00:49:52   like that could be kind of nice.

00:49:55   - Or they could even tie it into the memories thing, right?

00:49:57   So like we all give those notifications of,

00:49:59   hey, you know, you went to this party two years ago,

00:50:01   here are a bunch of pictures.

00:50:02   Make those a wallpaper.

00:50:04   It's my anniversary, every time I pick my phone up, I want a different picture of my

00:50:07   spouse.

00:50:08   You know, like, there's so much they could do to make this more interesting and more

00:50:11   personalized.

00:50:13   I'm excited about the possibilities.

00:50:14   Who'd have thought?

00:50:15   You're in the 14th version of it, you got to do something, and this seems like a fun

00:50:19   way to extend what you're doing elsewhere.

00:50:21   Man, sticker packs, that could have been a thing.

00:50:24   I mean, I use sticker packs every single day, but I just use one of them.

00:50:28   The same one.

00:50:29   The same one that I didn't pay for.

00:50:31   Like Stephen with the skeleton one.

00:50:32   Yeah, I mean they come out every now and then but it just wasn't the artistic magic bullet

00:50:39   that people were hoping for.

00:50:40   Remember when we used to have in our newsletter the sticker pack section?

00:50:45   Yeah.

00:50:46   Oh what, the John Voorhees series of sadness that it became?

00:50:50   John was increasingly losing his mind covering the-

00:50:54   It was good to watch his mental state deteriorate through the sticker packs that he was picking.

00:51:01   This sticker pack is called "Desperation".

00:51:03   Yeah.

00:51:04   Toward the end of the section, he would say something like "I'm not sure why I'm picking

00:51:08   this sticker pack, but here we are."

00:51:15   I'm being forced against my will to look at sticker packs.

00:51:18   Yeah, that section is no more.

00:51:20   Maybe he'll become the wallpaper expert.

00:51:22   Maybe we should do the wallpaper corner of the new city.

00:51:26   Sorry, John!

00:51:27   I mean, honestly, when we were talking, I thought if it's easy to do, I would put one

00:51:31   out of all my Apple hardware photos that I've taken over the years.

00:51:34   Oh my god, yes! Like all the iMac? You could just do an iMac pack?

00:51:39   Yeah. That's a great idea.

00:51:41   Maybe we should do what all the developers are doing these days. Launching a Kickstarter

00:51:46   for Steven to make an app that's only a wallpaper app. And you're gonna ask people for money

00:51:52   to do so. Is that a thing people are doing now?

00:51:54   Some developers are. I'm gonna need 80 grand.

00:51:58   Wow. Exactly. Exactly.

00:51:59   That was unexpected.

00:52:00   Yeah, I mean, it needs emotional support through all this.

00:52:04   I gotta buy a more powerful Mac Pro for development.

00:52:08   And a new camera to take the pictures.

00:52:11   And all new iMacs.

00:52:12   And a developer license, you know.

00:52:15   Yeah, that's up.

00:52:16   WWDC ticket, right?

00:52:19   Any day now, right?

00:52:20   Yep.

00:52:21   And there's the pain and suffering of using Xcode, that's worth something.

00:52:25   That's up.

00:52:26   That's what I'm saying.

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00:53:42   - So any version of iOS will naturally have in it

00:53:46   references to the hardware

00:53:47   that it's going to be running on, right?

00:53:49   So if you're imagining a version of iOS 14, it's going to have references to hardware that will be

00:53:56   out by the time that iOS 14 is out in theory, which is why we have a bunch of little details

00:54:03   about hardware that we're expecting that came out as part of this selection of leaks and stories.

00:54:10   So I guess we should start with the iPad Pro. So it includes what we think, the wide angle,

00:54:17   like a new camera unit which includes a wide angle lens, an ultra wide lens and a telephoto,

00:54:22   so just like the current iPhone Pro, but also the time of flight sensor which we've been hearing

00:54:27   about for a while which we know by now will be useful for AR app stuff and there was another leak

00:54:34   which referenced a new AR project in the works from Apple. It is an application that you will

00:54:41   use to help you get information about things that are out in the world so apparently they're

00:54:46   testing this out in Apple stores and Starbucks right now. So inside of a store you would

00:54:51   open the app on your phone, hold it up to products and you'd be able to get info about

00:54:55   these products. This would work via maybe QR codes, Bluetooth and what is that technology

00:55:01   that they made?

00:55:02   Eye beacons.

00:55:03   Can you help me?

00:55:04   Eye beacons.

00:55:05   Eye beacons, yeah. So it could be a combination of all of this stuff. It's in testing right

00:55:08   now and it's being developed in these two locations, right? So Apple stores and Starbucks,

00:55:14   there would be a third party SDK so other companies would be able to use it.

00:55:19   This is the dream right of being able to hold up your phone to stuff and it could point

00:55:22   things to you, show you where they are.

00:55:25   Clearly all of this is in preparation for AR glasses but Apple is approaching that product

00:55:31   in I think the right way.

00:55:33   So if you could, is to try and whenever they do launch this product already have an ecosystem

00:55:40   underpinning it right.

00:55:41   we've been talking about this for a while, but this is definitely one of these things,

00:55:44   right? Not just mapping the world, but mapping the things inside of buildings. That's what's

00:55:49   going to be really useful if we are in this AR glasses future. So this iPad Pro references

00:55:56   the time of flight sensor, which would be important for the development of stuff like

00:55:59   this. Obviously that app will run on all iOS devices when you would assume that a time

00:56:04   of flight sensor will be in the next round of iPhones. We can come back to all these

00:56:08   things if you guys have stuff to say, but I'll just run through the other two products

00:56:10   that are mentioned iPhone 9. So this is the iPhone SE 2 effectively, which was probably

00:56:18   going to be replacing the iPhone 8 in size. So to make this more confusing, the iPhone

00:56:23   6 design language will feature Touch ID with Express Transit support. So Express Transit

00:56:30   support is that thing where you can just hold your Apple Pay device up to say the London

00:56:36   underground and you don't have to do any authentication when you're boarding the trains, it just accepts

00:56:42   it very fast. I think this works in the New York subway, I think it's in Japanese metro as well.

00:56:47   I think it started in Japan, I believe was the first place that it was used, but I absolutely,

00:56:53   this is like a long-term follow-up, I absolutely love this feature. It's so fantastic, it's so fast

00:56:59   you don't have to wait, you just hold it up and it just immediately authenticates.

00:57:03   it's taken away my biggest frustration with Face ID, which was that it took too long to authenticate

00:57:09   these purchases like Apple Pay, but really the only problem for me was trying to get through

00:57:15   barriers at train stations and I don't need to use Face ID anymore, so that's great. So they're

00:57:19   adding this support into the iPhone 9 with Touch ID, but they're not really doing much more to the

00:57:25   design of the phone. It's going to be the phone for people that don't want to let go of Touch ID.

00:57:31   Side note, I bet lots of people in the world are getting frustrated with their iPhones

00:57:35   when they're wearing face masks.

00:57:37   Uh huh.

00:57:37   Hmm.

00:57:38   Yeah.

00:57:39   Right?

00:57:39   What a terrible time for face authentication.

00:57:41   And then the other thing is, in Apple TV, new hardware of some description with references

00:57:46   to a new remote of some kind.

00:57:48   Don't get too excited.

00:57:50   This might not be much more than some small changes.

00:57:54   I saw Benjamin Mayo reference on Twitter that this has happened before, but if you remember,

00:58:00   they just put a white ring around one of the buttons.

00:58:03   Oh, yeah.

00:58:03   So like a new remote doesn't necessarily mean that you're

00:58:07   going to get the remote of your dreams.

00:58:09   It might just mean a change of some kind to the Apple TV

00:58:13   remote hardware that we're used to.

00:58:14   Insert the insert the insert the Michael Scott no GIF here.

00:58:20   Oh, God.

00:58:22   No, God, please, no, no, no, no.

00:58:29   What if the one thing they change in the Siri remote is the whole remote?

00:58:32   Think about that. That's Galaxy brain level stuff.

00:58:34   They only change one thing, but it's everything.

00:58:37   Yeah, that'd be nice.

00:58:38   But that does sound like an Apple tagline.

00:58:40   The one thing we changed in the new iPhone is everything.

00:58:44   My biggest problem with the Apple TV remote is its inconsistency.

00:58:51   It's not the functions.

00:58:52   It's the inconsistency.

00:58:53   Like we're watching we're rewatching Patriot and Amazon Prime,

00:58:57   which is a fantastic television show if you've never seen it, like so good.

00:59:01   Very good.

00:59:01   And you know, like something happens and I want to go back

00:59:04   and I click the side of the remote and just nothing happens.

00:59:07   Like it just brings up the little scrubber, but it won't go back 10 seconds.

00:59:11   It's like I don't understand what I'm supposed to do.

00:59:13   I'm giving you what you want.

00:59:14   That's my biggest frustration with the Apple TV remote is the what I find like

00:59:19   inconsistency so often with trying to get it to do the functions

00:59:23   that it's supposed to do.

00:59:24   But yeah, so that's that's some hardware referenced in iOS 14.

00:59:27   Okay. That, that, that all sounds,

00:59:30   I think basically in line with what we've heard elsewhere,

00:59:34   except maybe the fully fixed, completely new Apple TV.

00:59:38   Brand new full of hardware buttons remote that you want.

00:59:42   Just buttons everywhere. Just cons, just like it's just all buttons.

00:59:46   Are you getting it yet? It's all buttons. It's all buttons.

00:59:51   It's not one remote, it's four remotes, one button each.

00:59:54   - And we just tape them together.

00:59:57   - One just has the menu button.

00:59:59   If you lose that, you can't go back, too bad.

01:00:01   I am increasingly interested about this iPhone 9.

01:00:04   I'm sticking that by that as the name,

01:00:06   which we talked about a long time ago.

01:00:08   There were so many people out there with an iPhone 6,

01:00:11   6S or 7 that Apple wants to move forward.

01:00:14   And those people don't want a phone that's bigger.

01:00:18   They don't want face ID.

01:00:19   They don't want to learn something new.

01:00:20   And an iPhone 9, you know, the iPhone 8 body

01:00:24   with the 11 guts, I think would meet their needs really well.

01:00:28   I've got one of these people in my marriage

01:00:30   who's using an iPhone 8 and wants a better camera

01:00:32   but doesn't want face ID.

01:00:33   I won't say who.

01:00:34   - One of these people in my marriage.

01:00:37   That's, that's an interesting one.

01:00:39   - It's not me.

01:00:40   - Who knows who it could be?

01:00:41   - I think this will do well, just like the SE did well.

01:00:44   - Yeah, yeah.

01:00:45   - And you know, people liked the size

01:00:47   and it brought forward what was good

01:00:49   but partnered it with good, you know, modern tech.

01:00:52   So I think the 9 could do really well,

01:00:55   especially if it comes in at 400 bucks or something,

01:00:58   you know, it comes in cheaper

01:00:59   because they're using that old design.

01:01:00   They don't have the most expensive parts in it.

01:01:03   I think that it could be a good deal for those people.

01:01:06   Like there are a lot of iPhone 6s and 7s

01:01:08   running around still, like they're just everywhere.

01:01:11   And I think Apple wants to get those people.

01:01:13   - Real time follow up from Zach in the chat room.

01:01:15   - Real time follow up.

01:01:16   - The tagline for the iPhone 6s

01:01:18   was the only thing that's changed is everything.

01:01:21   - Oh, that's what I saw before. - Oh, yes!

01:01:24   (laughs)

01:01:25   Oh, boy.

01:01:26   - I wanted to say something about AR.

01:01:28   - Uh-oh.

01:01:29   - Not necessarily about the iPad Pro,

01:01:30   because I mean, sure, give me a new iPad Pro,

01:01:32   but you mentioned we could follow up on that stuff.

01:01:36   I am increasingly skeptical of these potential use cases

01:01:40   for augmented reality.

01:01:42   I believe that for certain scenarios,

01:01:46   like the following directions,

01:01:48   So like I'm in a new city and I need to understand

01:01:52   where to go, like having the maps overlay

01:01:56   on top of the camera, that would be super amazing.

01:01:59   I believe Google Maps is already doing this on certain phones.

01:02:02   So that's incredible.

01:02:04   Following directions indoors, like also that would be cool

01:02:08   like in airports or like if you're looking

01:02:10   for a specific store or if you're a supermarket,

01:02:13   the supermarket you're looking for a specific shelf,

01:02:15   Like, yes, I believe that's the way that it should go.

01:02:20   Like all these other things, like in this example,

01:02:23   I'm at the Apple store and I'm at the table with the iPads

01:02:27   and I need to like get my phone and point at the iPad

01:02:30   to understand what I'm looking at.

01:02:32   Why not just touch it or ask somebody

01:02:35   for additional information?

01:02:37   So like, it just feels like if you're there,

01:02:40   if the iPad is in front of you,

01:02:42   Why should you grab your phone and point the camera at it?

01:02:46   You're looking at it already.

01:02:48   And it's very likely that there's

01:02:49   like an info pamphlet next to it or like an employee.

01:02:53   Just ask the person, like, hey, how much RAM is in--

01:02:57   they're not going to tell you, but at least you

01:02:59   can ask the question.

01:03:00   Wait, does that come up a lot in the supermarket, how much RAM

01:03:03   is in these potatoes?

01:03:05   No, and exactly.

01:03:06   I was going to mention the supermarket.

01:03:09   And I see these concepts, right, all the time,

01:03:12   like these fake AR apps. It's like, "Oh, imagine this. You're at the supermarket, and you finally

01:03:18   found the shelf that contains all the cereal options. Okay, fine. That's cool." And then

01:03:24   you grab the box, and you point your phone at it, and you get all these overlays telling

01:03:29   you the nutritional data for the cereal. I mean, dude, you're holding the cereal box.

01:03:35   There is literally a nutritional label on the cereal box. Look at it with your eyes.

01:03:39   Why do you have to use your phone and AR to understand how much protein you got in your

01:03:47   cereal?

01:03:48   Oh man.

01:03:49   Like, all these additional, like, I get it, it's fancy, right?

01:03:53   It's incredible.

01:03:54   It makes for a good demo.

01:03:55   It makes for a good portfolio type of video.

01:03:59   But like in real life, do you really want to depend on AR to replace your eyes when

01:04:05   and you got your eyes already,

01:04:07   and you can just look at things in real life

01:04:09   and you don't, there's no latency, right?

01:04:12   Your eyes, your physical eyes have no latency.

01:04:15   You're looking at a box, the box has the info that you need.

01:04:18   And sure, maybe the AR utility can make a bunch

01:04:22   of additional connections for you

01:04:24   because it's connected to the internet.

01:04:26   So like you can know that that specific serial

01:04:28   comes from Brazil and Brazil is well known for the carnival.

01:04:32   Okay, sure, you got all that information from Wikipedia,

01:04:35   but I'm also buying a cereal box.

01:04:36   You see, Federico, I think the thing is you clearly don't mind talking to people?

01:04:43   No, it's not that, because the cereal example, I'm just holding a box and I'm looking at it.

01:04:50   I think that there are...

01:04:51   But like, yes, do we really want technology to help us be more isolated and not talk to people?

01:05:00   Is that really the goal?

01:05:01   Right, well, that's it, isn't it?

01:05:02   It's like, it depends on where you're coming from this.

01:05:04   because, okay, so like, let's imagine one use case for this is like, now you're in a store,

01:05:10   you can be like, where's the bread? Right. And it can take you to the bread. It's like, okay,

01:05:14   here's the thing. That's useful, but it does also stop you from saying,

01:05:20   hey, shop assistant, where's the bread? And depending on your outlook in life,

01:05:24   you either see that as good. Basically, if you see that as utopian or dystopian, like that's your

01:05:31   outlook in life. I agree with you that like all of these things are inherently designed in a way

01:05:38   that would isolate us from other people but I think it is everybody's own decision on whether

01:05:47   they want that. I can't tell you what the right thing to do is. I don't know what the right option

01:05:55   is but it does come back to this this conversation we have had with an increasing frequency and we'll

01:06:01   will continue to have as to whether AR is good or bad, like AR glasses are good or bad

01:06:06   because there are, I think, very legitimate arguments on both sides, arguments that we

01:06:11   did not consider with smartphones, right? Like we just let that happen and it's been

01:06:17   good but it's also been really bad in certain ways, right? It's like smartphones, best thing

01:06:23   to happen in technology. Also one of the worst things to happen in social interactions, right?

01:06:30   the way that information is spread, like things that we could not have imagined when smartphones

01:06:35   became popular. I hope that there is a little bit more thought around AR in our faces and

01:06:44   how that could impact society before we all just adopt it. Because I don't think we had

01:06:49   that caution with smartphones.

01:06:51   Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm afraid that as soon as we're going to see like all the, you know,

01:06:57   the bells and whistles and like the fancy stuff, oh, this is incredible. We're just

01:07:00   gonna go for it because it's new you know because it's... So here's the thing I

01:07:04   think that we will be excited about it like we are all technology but we are

01:07:09   having I mean we speak for the three of us at least we are having this

01:07:13   conversation now right these conversations which is more has a little

01:07:18   bit more trepidation to it I know I didn't feel this way before the iPhone

01:07:22   like when the iPhone was rumored it was like come on come on come on give me

01:07:25   give me give me it wasn't like what is this going to do for the fate of

01:07:29   of humankind. Right? We're not having those conversations. But we maybe are a little bit

01:07:36   more about AR.

01:07:38   I have some real-time follow-up. Apple has closed all retail stores in Italy. All of

01:07:45   them. Used to be three of them. Now it's all of them.

01:07:50   But WWDC is still happening.

01:07:52   I mean, how is it possible that there's still no announcement?

01:07:58   They're just not ready. Everything's taken care of, right? There are good social reasons

01:08:04   to explain it. Santa Clara County has made it illegal if they even wanted to do it.

01:08:08   Exactly.

01:08:09   Everything is lining up the way that it needs to. They just haven't yet announced what they're

01:08:16   going to do. There is literally zero doubt in my mind about what's happening with WWDC.

01:08:23   It is not happening.

01:08:25   It is not a case now of if they're going to cancel it, it's just when and how they're

01:08:30   going to cancel the in-person event.

01:08:34   They just, Apple just haven't done it yet, right?

01:08:36   Because it is a difficult thing and they may be awaiting until like they have a bit of

01:08:41   space because everyone knew E3 was going to get cancelled today.

01:08:47   So I guess it's kind of just a case of like giving them the space that they want and about

01:08:52   when they do it.

01:08:53   do it at the end of the week because it's a considerate bad news or do they do it in

01:08:57   the middle of a week or at the start of a week because they want to dress it up as good

01:09:00   news like it's a big marketing thing for them and how they're gonna handle this but we'll

01:09:06   see but there is no question right like if you out there listener is still wondering

01:09:11   if WWDC is gonna happen Myke Hurley is telling you right now it won't right like I will put

01:09:17   money on this they are not doing it they're not doing it no they're not doing it no they

01:09:23   They cannot do it anymore. Like everything else is cancer.

01:09:25   They can't do it. It's irresponsible to do it. You can't at this point,

01:09:30   when today the World Health Organization has classified coronavirus as a pandemic,

01:09:35   you can't be like, "Uh, ignore that."

01:09:40   Yeah, let's just gather like 5,000 people and talk about...

01:09:43   But like the government of their county said it is illegal, so like they can't do it. They're

01:09:50   They're not allowed anymore, but yeah, they just haven't announced it.

01:09:54   So like like it's not even their choice anymore.

01:09:57   Like they just have to cancel it.

01:09:59   I think that had a date range on it.

01:10:02   But yeah, but that date range will keep getting pushed, though, right?

01:10:05   Like it will keep being like nudged along until this virus is under control.

01:10:10   But which is not right now.

01:10:11   All right. Let's let's talk about HomeKit.

01:10:13   Let's let's cheer people up with HomeKit.

01:10:16   Also in a nine to five max reporting talking about some new features coming in homekit with iOS 14

01:10:22   one feature being night shift for lights so you could homekit could automatically adjust the light

01:10:29   color temperature in a room throughout the day so the hue light bulbs i have on the lamps on my desk

01:10:36   you know i can set the color temperature i have them set to daylight most of the time

01:10:40   But I could, with iOS 14 I guess, tell it "Hey, warm those lights up" as I edit and

01:10:47   logic into the evenings, which is a thing that I do sometimes.

01:10:50   Also in this report...

01:10:51   Real time follow up, NAB just got cancelled.

01:10:54   Okay, that's another one.

01:10:56   Just wanted to... it's not important, but I just wanted to throw that out there.

01:10:59   It's all getting cancelled.

01:11:01   Like two days ago they were like "Come on down to NAB!"

01:11:03   We were talking about it and I messaged like "What are you doing?"

01:11:05   I got an email about it today, that like podcast movement is doing an NAB thing and they emailed

01:11:12   me today to try and get me to go. Like no, do you know where I'm definitely not gonna go right now?

01:11:17   Las Vegas! Right? Like of all the places! You could get a pandemic in Las Vegas any time.

01:11:23   Anyways, HomeKit Secure Video is supposed to get people or like facial recognition,

01:11:32   So it could send notifications if a stranger comes to your door, but when your kid comes home,

01:11:38   not send you a notification or vice versa or whatever. I would say that home kids

01:11:42   care video should work in the first place before they start adding features, but that's just me.

01:11:47   And lastly, HomePod and Apple TV, a lot of people use HomePods for the audio output for

01:11:53   their Apple TVs, including you, Myke, right? Every single day. And every single day,

01:11:58   Every single day.

01:11:59   It drives me absolutely mad that I have to toggle the settings.

01:12:02   So it seems like they could maybe fix that in iOS 14, that a user could permanently select

01:12:08   HomePod stereo pairs as the default audio output.

01:12:11   I genuinely think this is the very best use of a HomePod pair, is to use them with Apple

01:12:16   TV speakers.

01:12:17   They are very good TV speakers.

01:12:20   Like really good.

01:12:22   There's no latency problems because it buffers the content for a few seconds before it begins,

01:12:27   So you just press play just a couple of seconds and it starts.

01:12:30   And you know, it can get out of sync and that's when, because yes, when you have to do the

01:12:35   switching around or whatever, and that's really frustrating, but like a little improvement

01:12:39   here or there to this function would be great for me because this is how, this is our major

01:12:43   use of HomePods at home more than music because we watch TV content every day.

01:12:48   We don't listen to music at home every day.

01:12:51   And I genuinely really love it because it gives you a sense of multi, you know, like,

01:12:57   not like surround sound, but more than just stereo, right?

01:13:02   Because there is like placement.

01:13:04   It feels really good sometimes, right?

01:13:06   Sometimes it feels like things are not just to the left, but to the left and behind, you

01:13:09   know, because it's doing whatever it's doing to try and do that full room sound stuff.

01:13:14   So yeah, really, like it's a very good feature.

01:13:16   And I would be happy to see that they're going to put some additional work into this.

01:13:22   And Zach points out in his article that he thinks this would be a good opportunity for

01:13:27   smaller less expensive home pods.

01:13:29   So you don't have a $600 speaker set hooked up to your TV, which would be cool.

01:13:35   So you know, I think all this makes sense.

01:13:37   I again, just like HomeKit Secure Video, I want to use it.

01:13:41   It's not good enough, not anywhere near enough.

01:13:44   So hopefully there's more to this than just adding additional features on.

01:13:48   But home gets one of those things too that I mean, it's one thing I understand that we're

01:13:53   going to get messages upgrades with iOS 14.

01:13:56   But it feels like homekit is big enough where they could roll these updates out separate

01:14:00   from a big iOS version.

01:14:02   And maybe they need it for the marketing reasons.

01:14:04   Like why can't we just do this in 13.4 like homekit should be getting better all the time,

01:14:08   not just once a year.

01:14:10   to five Mac today reported the inclusion of a new international Apple watch face

01:14:17   that sets a bunch set your flag country's flag as the background of your

01:14:22   watch that's cool if you're super into your country you can do that you could

01:14:26   just if you were that into your country that you wanted this as a watch face you

01:14:30   could just set it as a photo watch face look Casey's gonna run the beta just for

01:14:34   this so to get the USA flag let him have his moment okay I mean there's still a

01:14:39   whole other conversation to be had that like all watch faces should be more

01:14:42   flexible and more customizable. I assume this one will follow like a lot of the

01:14:46   image based ones where maybe you get one or two complications. I still do wish for

01:14:50   a better more flexible watch face system or heaven forbid third-party watch faces.

01:14:55   But I don't think that's happening this year. Maybe one day. Yeah it's not gonna

01:15:00   happen because that's definitely something we would have heard about

01:15:02   right like there are gonna be other watch faces like apparently there's like an

01:15:06   Infograph Pro watch face come in, right? And some stuff about like sharing watch faces

01:15:11   and all that kind of stuff. I don't really get the country flag one personally. Like

01:15:15   it doesn't really make any sense to me. A friend of the show, Kyle Le Grade, was talking

01:15:21   about like the Olympics, but this would already have, like the Olympics would have, well,

01:15:26   okay. If the Olympics are going to happen at the time.

01:15:30   Are there going to be the Olympics?

01:15:32   I mean, that's an interesting one, isn't it? Because like the Olympics are supposed to

01:15:35   happen beginning in July. So who knows, right? Like it might be okay then probably won't

01:15:42   be, uh, but they'll move it. I don't know what they're going to do, but in theory, this

01:15:46   would make sense for the Olympics. iOS 14 would be too late for the Olympics, but maybe

01:15:50   this would ship before, or maybe it's got nothing to do with the Olympics at all.

01:15:53   Well, if you want to find links to the stories we spoke about, head on over to the website,

01:15:58   While you're there you can email us with feedback or follow-up or you can become a member to

01:16:06   support the show directly.

01:16:07   You can also find us all on Twitter.

01:16:09   You can find Myke there as @imyke.

01:16:12   Myke is the host of a bunch of other shows here on Relay FM, including his newest show

01:16:17   The Test Drivers with Austin Evans, which you should go check out.

01:16:21   You can find Federico on Twitter as @vittici, V I T I C C I, and he is the editor-in-chief

01:16:27   of max stories.net home of the best iOS sticker pack coverage on the web.

01:16:32   Maybe years ago,

01:16:33   you can find me online as ISMH and my writing at five 12 pixels.net.

01:16:40   I think our sponsors this week, Pingdom direct mail and indeed,

01:16:44   and until next time, gentlemen, say goodbye.

01:16:47   Cheerio.