0:00:00(upbeat music)
0:00:02Hello and welcome to Connected episode 279.
0:00:12It's made possible this week by our sponsors,
0:00:15Pingdom, Smile, and Booz Allen.
0:00:18My name is Stephen Hackett
0:00:19and I am joined by Mr. Myke Hurley.
0:00:21- Hello, happy birthday.
0:00:23- Happy birthday to you too.
0:00:25It's our birthday week.
0:00:26- Birthday week.
0:00:28and Federico, your birthday is not this week.
0:00:31- Well, happy birthday week to you both.
0:00:35- Thank you. - Yes.
0:00:36- It is weird that our, I mean,
0:00:37we are several years different in age,
0:00:40but it is weird that it's the same week.
0:00:42- It's many. - It's strange.
0:00:43- Yeah.
0:00:45Yeah, that's how calendars work.
0:00:46Like, even if it's decades apart,
0:00:48it can still be the same week.
0:00:49- Thank you, Federico.
0:00:50- Yeah.
0:00:54- Fantastic, L3. - Let me start
0:00:54and let you know.
0:00:55- Teach you that in your review?
0:00:57Mm-hmm. Well, we'll get to Fantastic Health 3, but first we have some follow-up. So last time, Federico, you were speaking about your must-have apps
0:01:062019 article and it has come out and I really enjoyed it. Do you want to tell the lovely people about this article?
0:01:14Thank you. Yes
0:01:17So it's 50 apps. So it's the
0:01:20it's basically the usual story that I do every year. I was a bit late this time because I was
0:01:26doing a few things. First of all, I basically spent the month of December deciding whether
0:01:33I wanted to use Overcast or Apple Podcasts. Marco has got a new version of Overcast coming out with
0:01:40a new version of Voice Boost. It's really good, we'll have a story on the site eventually. And I
0:01:44And I was also playing around with a few additions to my home screen in the form of the shortcuts icons.
0:01:51So I got the story out a bit later than usual.
0:01:56Shouldn't happen again, but I still wanted to do it and I still...
0:02:00Yeah, you better not let it happen again.
0:02:02No, I will not. Sorry.
0:02:05Disgrace. Disgrace.
0:02:07I will not. So 50 apps, 50 apps, bit of a...
0:02:11Nearly February over here.
0:02:13No, it came out on January 23rd, which is also my favorite number.
0:02:17That's nearly February, it's been one week away from February.
0:02:20Sure, I don't care.
0:02:22This is a reflection of my home screen in 2019, as of December 31st.
0:02:28Bit of a format change, there's a new category, home screens, which collects
0:02:33the apps that I have on my home screen for the iPhone and iPad.
0:02:36Otherwise, the usual stuff, work, entertainment, images, health, home and utilities.
0:02:4250 apps, some of them have moved to subscriptions.
0:02:46And there's the, I mean there's Raindrop, we've talked about it, it was the
0:02:50the new app that a lot of people wanted to hear more about. I also got a bunch of
0:02:54tweets and emails. There's always an app in your story that
0:02:59is like the big one for the year, right? Like I
0:03:02think, I feel like every year there's always like
0:03:05an app that you spend a lot of time focusing on and I think Raindrop was
0:03:10was the one this time, right?
0:03:12Yeah, yeah, definitely.
0:03:14And it was fun because I got a lot of
0:03:16tweets and questions from people about it.
0:03:21Which, incidentally, by the way, I just got
0:03:23I just saw that the Raindrop Service just today
0:03:27announced that
0:03:29they have full text search and the permanent library feature.
0:03:36which means they are archiving a full copy of every webpage that you have in your Raindrop account.
0:03:41So this is very nice and I'll make sure to check it out and see how it works.
0:03:45So yeah, Raindrop was definitely the highlight.
0:03:48The home screen on the iPad has a bit of a...
0:03:51I mean, we talked about this, it's got this custom layout with the icons.
0:03:55Otherwise, I think it's a pretty good reflection of where I'm at at the moment.
0:04:02I'm using Reminders.
0:04:04the Apple Calendar icon is not there anymore because I'm now using the new version of Fantastical
0:04:10and then there's shortcuts and Timery and all the other custom shortcuts that we've talked about
0:04:15so yeah I'm curious to see what will happen to the home to this home screen in the 2020 edition
0:04:22which will not come out in February 2020 or actually 2020/2021 per Myke's request
0:04:30But we'll see. There's some apps I don't feel like, for example, Codex, which I really like,
0:04:37it's a text editor. It barely gets updated and it's one of those apps that like, it's like the
0:04:44only app in its category basically, like a lightweight version of Sublime Text for iOS,
0:04:51with like multiple cursors and custom key bindings, all those kinds of features.
0:04:55There's nothing else like it on the iPad than on the iPhone, but it's a free app and it doesn't really make any money for the developer.
0:05:02I don't understand why and so it never gets updated.
0:05:05So I don't know, hopefully the developer will go back to updating codecs in 2020, but I don't know.
0:05:10We'll see how it goes, I guess.
0:05:13It is the end of January, so we are just in iPhone rumor season because it starts earlier every year and
0:05:19there is a
0:05:22this
0:05:23Rumor of that a navy blue color could replace the midnight green finish in the iPhone
0:05:2912 Pro now Myke you're a big proponent of midnight green. Does this does this make you sad?
0:05:35No as much as I am a fan of midnight green at the time remember when they showed it off
0:05:41I didn't like it and I was on like team blue because their people were mocking up blue phones
0:05:46So I would be all over this if they made a blue one. I also think it would be so this came from
0:05:53leaker Max Weinbach
0:05:55He has been like at the forefront of all of the Samsung Galaxy s20 leaks that have been going on over the last few weeks
0:06:01like this guy
0:06:03Has been getting all this information. So is he the new Mark Gurman?
0:06:08I think he's maybe more than you like ev leaks, you know
0:06:12You get these people he writes and does video stuff at XDA developers, which is like a very big Android community, right? Yeah
0:06:21And it seems like he's been getting information and he's had some Apple information before that's turned out to be correct
0:06:27Macrumis has a bit of a breakdown or some of that in their article
0:06:30but I think that this makes sense because
0:06:32clearly Apple only did the midnight green because
0:06:38It just provided like another colorway which would indicate that you had the new phone, right?
0:06:45So like, so I think it would make a lot of sense if there was that fourth spot that they
0:06:49just kept rotating out every year of a different color. Like don't do green and blue, just
0:06:55do blue. You know what I mean? So that we end up with black, silver, gold, and a color
0:07:00in the pro line. Um, I've think that that would be quite clever. Uh, but nevertheless
0:07:05I want the blue one because I like blue.
0:07:09Doesn't surprise me.
0:07:10But it looks nice though, like this mock-up that they did on the MacRumors page, like it looks really nice.
0:07:15Not for me, but totally for you.
0:07:19Why? What don't you like about it?
0:07:21I don't know. I feel like I'm a boring person when it comes to colors.
0:07:26You like your phones black, don't you?
0:07:28I do, and I also like my wallpapers black or really dark gray.
0:07:34That's a more recent thing for you though. You used to have lots of color.
0:07:38Yes, yes, it's a very recent thing for me. I still have a super colorful like clown vomit wallpaper on the lock screen
0:07:46But on the home screen, it's gotta be simple. I don't know. It's it's an age thing. I think.
0:07:53I guess you're maturing.
0:07:55Growing up with my wallpapers.
0:07:57A couple of weeks ago. We spoke about the unofficial Apple archive. Yeah, which was that wonderful beautiful web page
0:08:06Which was the guy's name Sam Sam gold?
0:08:09Sam gold that was it. I was gonna say Goldman, but no, it's just Sam gold. That's that's half the bank Goldman and Sam's perfect
0:08:16Goldman Sam's that's their name Goldman Sam
0:08:19Created the unofficial Apple I every time I say weblog in my brain and I have to stop myself
0:08:27The Apple archive right every time I go for two are like that's hitting me right back in the stand
0:08:35Well, now they have something in common. They've both been partially shuttered.
0:08:38That's not fair. But it's basically, it was kind of incredible to see,
0:08:45Sam on Twitter was posting, basically Apple sent to Vimeo, where they were hosting their videos,
0:08:52a bunch of copyright notices, right? Like this is, you know, it's affecting the copyright, blah,
0:09:00blah blah blah blah take it down and they took a screenshot of their email notifications
0:09:07and you could watch them just like counting up in like tens it was kind of incredible
0:09:14as every single video was copyright claimed so it's basically dead now yeah it's what
0:09:23it's a shame but like it like what were we expecting honestly yeah it was obvious that
0:09:28this was gonna happen, right? Like, I don't want it to have happened, but I don't really
0:09:33know what else could be expected. Is this something that the blockchain could have fixed?
0:09:41You know what, probably. Or Pirate Bay. No, what's the other word that people like to
0:09:48use and throw around? AI? No, no no no. 5G? What if the Apple Archive, no, no 5G, Steven,
0:09:56an actual thing. No, it's not. What if? Yes, it is. What if the unofficial archive was
0:10:02decentralized? I don't even know what it means. But what if it was someone's gonna break up
0:10:09big advertising, that's what's gonna happen. There was a rush on the part of some Reddit
0:10:16users to try to scrape this stuff and have it in a torrent. I don't think that got finished
0:10:21before it was taken down. And we just say the site is still up at as far as this recording,
0:10:26least and the images are still there but all the videos are gone again they sent
0:10:31takedown requests to Vimeo the host that was being used for the videos it seems
0:10:37to me like a the photos I would imagine will follow at some point but you know
0:10:42the the most of the hard work that he put in I would imagine was on the video
0:10:47side and it's a shame that it didn't last very long but it's also not like a
0:10:53Certain point what is the problem like what is Apple's problem? Yeah?
0:10:59I wrote some about this for a forthcoming Club Max stories column, but I
0:11:03Think that Apple painos no spoilers, but I think apples in the wrong here like yes clearly they have copyright
0:11:11Claims on their own keynote videos and and yeah like maybe some of the internal stuff that he was publishing
0:11:17Maybe you could say okay. Well, that's that's internal
0:11:20you know, I can understand why Apple would do that but like
0:11:23Video of people on stage that happened as a historical event. I think Apple should either let the point of the ad
0:11:31Was you made it you paid for it for people to see it right and you put it out into the world
0:11:37and I think it's a shame that Apple treats them this way, you know without a
0:11:41centralized thing like what Sam did you're just off searching YouTube and the quality is pretty bad and and
0:11:47And Apple has some of this available,
0:11:50but it doesn't go back very far.
0:11:51Definitely not to the early 2000s or 90s.
0:11:54And it's a shame.
0:11:56And I wish Apple wasn't this way about this sort of thing
0:11:58because, I mean, selfishly,
0:12:00I would like to have better quality stuff
0:12:02than what's available.
0:12:04And I have some stuff personally
0:12:05that's not available anywhere else
0:12:07that I've gotten my hands on over the years,
0:12:09but it should be a resource that anyone could use anywhere.
0:12:13It's a bummer.
0:12:15It is, however, the year of Steven.
0:12:19- It is not. - It is.
0:12:20- It isn't. - It really isn't.
0:12:21- The year of Steven part two.
0:12:24- No. - There was this thing
0:12:27in Forbes, we're gonna link to the nine to five article
0:12:30about it where content creators on Apple TV+
0:12:34are going to be using podcasting
0:12:37to talk about their episodes.
0:12:38This is in conjunction with Little America,
0:12:41which I haven't seen any of.
0:12:43Is it even out?
0:12:44don't actually know. So the people behind the series were talking to Forbes about why
0:12:51they worked with Apple and how they're going to be using podcasts to sort of build the
0:12:55story around the video content. And it's basically what we talked about in the prediction show.
0:13:00It's just sort of a concrete example of this happening.
0:13:04Or going to happen. It hasn't happened. But they spoke about, I think they were talking
0:13:09about the second season. So I don't know when the second season is coming out, but you might
0:13:14not get in this year, which could be... wouldn't that be beautiful? They are doing it, but
0:13:19it's not going to be in 2020. That would be hilarious for no real reason, right Steven?
0:13:25That'd be funny.
0:13:26What just means that 2021 is also the year, Steven?
0:13:29I don't think it does because the pick is gone. We've never spoken about this before,
0:13:33but I don't think we should reuse picks. Just keep going round and around and around again.
0:13:37We can just add another rule.
0:13:38Do we need to add that to the rule section of the Google document?
0:13:42I don't think we need to do it now.
0:13:44Well, I'm here.
0:13:45Regular rules.
0:13:46Well then do it then.
0:13:47Pics.
0:13:48We shouldn't be able to reuse pics.
0:13:49Cannot be reused.
0:13:52So there you go.
0:13:53That looks like that podcasts are coming.
0:13:55But we can also talk about the year of Myke because during Apple's earnings call, Tim
0:14:00Cook didn't answer anything positively about 5G but was asked questions about 5G and was
0:14:06doing the usual Tim Cook thing of like, we're excited about products in our pipeline. Like
0:14:11it's coming man. 5G on the iPhone this year it's happening and there's nothing Steven
0:14:16can do about it.
0:14:18Are you ready to accept defeat Steven?
0:14:22There's a lot of year left for Puerto Rico. There's a lot, a lot of year left.
0:14:25A lot of year for you two proven wrong.
0:14:28September will be here before you know it.
0:14:31That's true. Time only speeds up. Well, that is follow up. We made it. We survived through
0:14:36the follow-up tunnel. We have emerged on the station of our first ad break.
0:14:40This episode is brought to you by Pingdom from SolarWinds. Today's internet
0:14:46users expect a fast web experience. And no matter how good your content is or
0:14:52how effective your marketing may be, people are just gonna leave if your
0:14:55website is loading too slowly. That's annoying to everybody. With real
0:15:00user monitoring from Pingdom, you can discover how website performance issues
0:15:04affect your visitors experiences so you can take action before your business is impacted.
0:15:09How your visitors experience your website differs depending on their browser, device,
0:15:13and platform that they're using.
0:15:15You can identify how visitors are experiencing your site so you can make informed optimizations
0:15:21and deliver great performance to those who matter most.
0:15:24And it's built to scale.
0:15:26Real user monitoring is an event-based solution.
0:15:29That means that you can monitor millions of page views without compromising the fidelity
0:15:32of your historical data or breaking the bank in the process.
0:15:37Get live visitor insights today with real user monitoring from Pingdom.
0:15:42Go to Pingdom.com/RelayFM right now for a 14-day free trial with no credit card required.
0:15:49And when you sign up, use the code "Connected" at checkout to get an awesome 30% off your
0:15:55first invoice.
0:15:57Our thanks to Pingdom from SolarWinds for their support of the show.
0:16:01Fedrico, last week we spoke about what you were doing with your iPad.
0:16:05You have since had an "Adapt" episode come out about it, but do you want to confess your
0:16:11sins?
0:16:12Well, yes.
0:16:14So you may remember that a few years ago we very, very kindly and lovingly somewhat poked
0:16:25fun at Michael for wanting to experiment with his iPad Pro.
0:16:32You're lying.
0:16:33A screen protector called the Paperlike.
0:16:37And it was all, you know, done in good faith and just very, from, you know, out of the
0:16:45kindness of our hearts, we just, you know, it made for good entertainment on the show.
0:16:52And lies.
0:16:54So what I... so okay, so here's the short version. I am currently using the Paperlike
0:17:03screen protector on my 12.9" iPad Pro and a different screen protector on the 11" iPad
0:17:11Pro called the MOSHI iVisor AG. I don't even know what the AG stands for, but it's called
0:17:20the Moshi iVicer. So here's my why I'm doing this. I've always wanted to have an
0:17:29iPad Pro with a matte display. I love matte displays, I wish that Apple would make a version
0:17:36of the iPad Pro that had one, even if it cost like 500 euros more, I would spend the money
0:17:42for that, because I really like matte displays.
0:17:45buy a Pro Display XDR and carry it around with you?
0:17:48Sure, or I could have done the research on matte screen protectors, which is what I've done.
0:17:58Buy a really powerful laser and do the etching yourself.
0:18:01Also a possibility, yes. It could be actually less expensive than the Pro Display XDR.
0:18:08I wanted to see if this was something that I could like, because a problem that I ran into last year
0:18:16was I basically could not get any work done at the beach. And yes, this is a first world problem for
0:18:23me. The biggest. I know, I spend a lot of time at the beach in the summer. You're just a tally on
0:18:29and what do people want from you?
0:18:30Yeah, and I, you know, I could have...
0:18:36I like the idea of knowing that if I want to, I can read my review, my iOS review that
0:18:42I usually work on in the summer, and read through a few chapters and do a few edits
0:18:48while I'm at the beach.
0:18:50It's basically impossible with the default display, the LCD display of the iPad Pro.
0:18:56Even if you're under a beach umbrella with strong direct sunlight, the thing is going
0:19:02to reflect everything, and it's really hard to see.
0:19:05So I was talking to Ryan and I mentioned, like, I want to see if there's... if... maybe
0:19:11this is a solution for me to use the Apet Pro at the beach in the summer, or in general,
0:19:17like if I want to work outside, it becomes something... it's something that it becomes
0:19:21possible for me.
0:19:23So I ordered the Paperlike in two versions in two sizes, but as I was waiting for the
0:19:30Paperlike, somebody listened to someone on Twitter. They listened to the Adapt episode
0:19:39and they recommended to me this Moshi iVisor alternative.
0:19:43AG.
0:19:44AG. So I put in an order for that from Amazon US for the small iPad Pro. So now I'm testing
0:19:54both at the same time. There's a major difference between them. The Paperlike, it's called Paperlike
0:19:59for a reason. It's got a Paperlike texture.
0:20:04By the way, I just need to state this for a second because you were talking about this
0:20:07on Adapt too. This thing does not feel like paper, right? Like I just need to state that
0:20:12as a pen and paper user. It doesn't feel like paper.
0:20:14Oh, here we go.
0:20:15It just has a texture. It doesn't feel like paper.
0:20:18Yeah.
0:20:18Right. Like, it doesn't feel like you're using a pen on paper
0:20:24when you use the Apple Pencil on a paper.
0:20:25Like, it just has more of a texture.
0:20:28Like, it's closer, but it doesn't feel anything like pen and paper.
0:20:32I just need to state that.
0:20:34It adds friction to the screen.
0:20:36Which is nice.
0:20:38Like, I think it is much nicer to use the Apple Pencil on this
0:20:41than on the regular screen.
0:20:46By the way, thank you listener "Veg" from the chat room.
0:20:53AG stands for anti-glare.
0:20:55Mmm.
0:20:56Definitely. So AG is anti-glare.
0:20:59So the Paperlike as a texture adds friction when you're using the pencil on screen,
0:21:06And it comes with a bit of an involved process for applying the paper like to your iPad.
0:21:14Oh boy, does it.
0:21:15Let's just say there's a website that you need to visit, there's a video, there's multiple
0:21:20stickers that you need to use, there's a... it's a whole thing.
0:21:23I would say, whilst I agree it is very complex, they have really done an excellent job of
0:21:33making a complex thing followable.
0:21:36Yeah, absolutely. Yes.
0:21:38The actual experience of applying it, whilst difficult,
0:21:42is made much easier by how good the tutorial stuff is.
0:21:46And the packaging also, like all the different pieces are labeled
0:21:52and everything is explained very clearly.
0:21:55I had Silvia do it, obviously,
0:21:57because I knew that I was going to do a whole mess.
0:22:01And she was perfect. It's basically perfect. It's got no bubbles underneath these.
0:22:06I feel like I need to send you my iPad. All right, so inspired by you, I applied my paper.
0:22:14Ah, okay.
0:22:15I messed up the first one so bad I had to use the second one.
0:22:18Oh no.
0:22:19Just so many bubbles. Just bubbles everywhere. Like, tiny ones. I reckon I'm going to have to
0:22:26to take this one off again just because the bubbles are so bad. But I do really like the
0:22:33matte screen as well. I think the matte finish is really nice.
0:22:37Okay. The Moshi iVizer AG has no texture, so it is smooth. Completely… well, it's
0:22:47different of course from the glass of the iPad's display, but it doesn't have friction
0:22:53like the paper-like. It's matte, it's very similar in practice to the paper-like. And
0:23:02the big advantage of this one is that it creates no bubbles when you apply it. Like completely
0:23:09bubble free. I don't know how.
0:23:10I was going to say, how is that possible?
0:23:13I don't know.
0:23:15It's removable this one though, right? Like it's not one and done as well.
0:23:19I think it's removable and washable also, I'm pretty sure.
0:23:24I'm gonna buy this.
0:23:25I was really skeptical of this one.
0:23:27I was like, yeah, how can it be possible
0:23:29that it's washable and bubble-free?
0:23:31I mean, I haven't washed it, but it is bubble-free,
0:23:34like zero bubbles underneath the screen protector.
0:23:39Now, if I knew, honestly, if I knew
0:23:42that the MOSHI iVisor AG existed,
0:23:45I would have probably gone with this one
0:23:47on the big iPad Pro as well. Now I have the Paperlike on and I don't really... I mean,
0:23:53maybe she's listening to me right now. I don't really feel like I want to tell Sylvia, "Hey,
0:23:56you gotta remove the Paperlike. Apply a different one."
0:24:00Do you think if you removed it and replaced it with the iVisor that she would realize?
0:24:05Probably. Because she used the iPad Pro for drawing with the pencil for basically like
0:24:1330 minutes and if she's ever gonna try again she's gonna notice the lack of a
0:24:18texture. So it's possible. What I want to say is that I was really skeptical of
0:24:26these screen protectors in general for one main reason. I was afraid they would
0:24:31change the color or like just the definition, the resolution of the image
0:24:38shown on screen. And while that happens to an extent, like, text is... I don't know
0:24:47how to describe it, but the... it looks a bit different, but it's not as big a deal
0:24:52as I feared. It's totally usable. I've been writing with the paper, like, on my
0:24:58big iPad Pro for an entire week at this point. It's fine. And I love it. I love
0:25:03I love that it's matte, I love that it reflects less light.
0:25:07I think this is gonna work for me, honestly.
0:25:13And the bigger point I guess is that all these modifications that I'm doing to my iPad Pro
0:25:20we talked about the Coverbody Zwicheasy case last week
0:25:26I since have added also a silicone sleeve for my Apple Pencil.
0:25:32What I love... So, to recap what's going on at the moment, I have a smart key portfolio
0:25:40with four metal kickstands in the back. I have a zwicheasy cover body case around the
0:25:46eye for throw. I have a... This is a funny name, I got it from Amazon Italy. I think
0:25:51it's also available in Amazon US. It's an Apple Pencil sleeve, it comes in black and
0:25:56It's duotone, which is super nice to look at, but it's called the AHA style.
0:26:02AHA style, it's all one word, it's the AHA style.
0:26:08Apple Pencil sleeve, that's AHA style.
0:26:13And the paper-like screen protector.
0:26:17But what I like about this setup, so it's a lot of accessories,
0:26:22But, I'm still using the iPad Pro with the SmartKey portfolio.
0:26:27It's not like my iPad Pro is so rugged now, it's become like those OtterBox cases,
0:26:37that suddenly your iPad is now a full brick that you have to lug around.
0:26:41The increasing weight is minimal.
0:26:44Basically the only weight that I added was the Coverbody case,
0:26:47body case because the kickstands and the screen protector and the Apple Pencil
0:26:52sleeve, they weigh nothing essentially. So I'm still using the iPad Pro with a
0:26:57smart keyboard. It's still a pretty standard setup in terms of the writing
0:27:02experience, but it's so much more flexible for me because with a matte
0:27:07display I can work outside. The Apple Pencil sleeve, by the way, fits inside the
0:27:14opening in the cover body case and it charges and it connects, it pairs
0:27:20magnetically to the iPad Pro, but now the Apple Pencil is also protected. And I got
0:27:25the kickstands so I have multiple viewing angles as well. So it is a
0:27:28completely custom smart keyboard setup which is sort of, that was my priority.
0:27:34Like, I want to keep using the smart keyboard but I also want to customize it
0:27:38to add a bunch of options. And yes, you can make the argument that "oh look at
0:27:42this guy spending money to fix something that Apple should have fixed. Yes, I agree with
0:27:46you, but also I am a pragmatic person. So I took it upon myself to customize it and
0:27:53now it works for me. And you, the complainer, have a smart keyboard that is not as flexible
0:27:58as mine. So I think I'm... I got a win situation over here for me. Don't you agree?
0:28:04I agree that you have a situation.
0:28:06I... okay, okay. Look, when you look at it, it looks like an iPad with a smart keyboard.
0:28:14Yeah.
0:28:15I mean, and if you take a closer look, you will see the Switch Easy Case, which is, again,
0:28:22you just see the additional pencil holder, basically. And the metal kickstands are very
0:28:32strategically placed around stickers that I have all over the smart keyboard. So they
0:28:40are sort of a, you know, a camo situation going on. You barely notice them. And otherwise,
0:28:46it is just a smart keyboard.
0:28:48I don't agree that you barely notice the stickers.
0:28:51No, no, it's a smart keyboard.
0:28:53And not the kickstands. Look, you do you, man. It's pretty obvious that I would be
0:29:01excited for you in all of your things but don't try and say that you can't notice them.
0:29:07You can.
0:29:08The kick sense?
0:29:09Yeah.
0:29:10Honestly?
0:29:11Like, I...
0:29:12No, I don't.
0:29:14Like I notice them in the sense that they, like, the iPad, like, doesn't...
0:29:20Like when you put it on a table...
0:29:22It doesn't sit flat.
0:29:24It doesn't sit flat but I like, I don't care.
0:29:26But I guess it's balanced, so...
0:29:28Yeah, it is.
0:29:29Because there's four of them.
0:29:30so it's balanced and it's fine.
0:29:32But yeah, I mean, and the best part, like,
0:29:35if I don't wanna... if I don't have to type or write anything,
0:29:39it's a smart... again, it's a smart keyboard.
0:29:41Now I just remove the iPad,
0:29:43and the Switch is the case, it's easy enough to remove,
0:29:46and I got an iPad. So...
0:29:48I think this is more flexible for me than something like a bridge keyboard,
0:29:53when I wanna have an iPad in portable mode.
0:29:56All this to say that I'm really happy that I made fun of you for screen protectors,
0:29:59screen protectors a few years ago. I regret the mistake. I can see the appeal now. It's
0:30:06still made for good entertainment on the show, so I do not regret the entertainment that
0:30:10we provided, because that's what we do. But I will say that I understand now why people
0:30:17like it. Regardless of the texture and whether it feels like paper or not, having an anti-glare
0:30:24matte display is very nice.
0:30:27Should be a default option on the Apple Pro.
0:30:29I would pay serious money for it.
0:30:31- You seem pretty happy, right, about all of this.
0:30:35You did not seem very happy on Twitter a couple of days ago,
0:30:38and I wanted to ask you about it.
0:30:40You tweeted the following,
0:30:41"I've had enough of Google's broken, intrusive,
0:30:44"user-hostile AMP pages that are constantly shoved
0:30:47"down my throat in mobile search results.
0:30:50"I can't stand them anymore.
0:30:51"I'm trying DuckDuckGo again for a while."
0:30:54How's that going for you? Also, can we talk about AMP? Can we talk about that for a minute?
0:31:02We can. We can. I believe it's the worst thing that has ever happened to the mobile
0:31:07web.
0:31:08How often are you seeing that? I feel like I don't get AMP.
0:31:10Every single day.
0:31:12Yep. All the time.
0:31:13I am so fed up.
0:31:15Let me ask though. I want to ask. I feel like I need to understand this. Because I only
0:31:19ever realize I'm on an AMP page when I need the URL.
0:31:23Oh, no, no, no.
0:31:25But I don't feel like I notice most of the time.
0:31:27I can tell because the scrolling is weird.
0:31:30What is that? What do you mean by that?
0:31:32I'm just intrigued. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just intrigued.
0:31:35So, there's a bunch of issues.
0:31:38On the iPad Pro, usually, when I open a Google AMP page,
0:31:45half of the screen is blank, is white,
0:31:50And the article is displayed with a smaller font on the left side of the screen,
0:31:59because it's completely broken for some websites on the iPad Pro with Safari at the moment.
0:32:06Wait, explain that again?
0:32:07When I open certain, actually several AMP websites on my iPad Pro,
0:32:15The result is a page that has the right half of the screen completely blank, white, with no content,
0:32:27and the actual article is cramped on the left side of the screen.
0:32:33Is this in landscape?
0:32:36Yes, it is.
0:32:38I haven't seen this.
0:32:39That's a thing that happens on my Appet Pro.
0:32:41Of course, the regular annoyance of being unable to share the actual permalink of a
0:32:48web page on the iPhone, I can tell when I'm visiting an AMP page because it does weird
0:32:55things to scrolling the page. Like it's not the native Safari scrolling, the native
0:33:00WebKit scrolling, it's different. Text selection is usually weird. Using extensions from the
0:33:07share sheet becomes impossible because they ingest the google.com AMP URL instead of the
0:33:14actual link. And there's just a lot of weird things that happen in terms of rendering and
0:33:21scrolling and the interaction. So not only do I believe that it's... My main problem
0:33:28with AMP, and we've talked about this years ago, I was actually quoted, and this is not
0:33:33to brag. It's something that I've been thinking for years now. I've been quoting
0:33:39the New York Times when I originally complained about this. Yes. It is such a short-sighted
0:33:48view of the web from both Google and website owners. And I see this all the time. Like,
0:33:59You have a website, and instead of making it better, and by better I mean like, don't
0:34:05use 50, 60 different trackers, or you know, have published web pages that weigh 60, 70
0:34:14MB, have all kinds of user hustle behaviors going on. These websites, they embrace these
0:34:21technologies that are supposed to make your website better. This applies to Google AMP,
0:34:26This applies to a service that I saw yesterday that launched called Scroll that lets you
0:34:31pay $5 a month to browse certain websites without ads. Well, guess what? The best way
0:34:39to pay...
0:34:40Re-ability! Re-ability is back.
0:34:42Yes, it's basically readability that failed miserably. Remember they were sending checks
0:34:46to website publishers years ago and I got mine in the mail, it was like $70. Thank
0:34:51you, readability.
0:34:53They would if you didn't sign up to claim the money, they just keep the money.
0:34:56Yeah, they will keep it.
0:34:57Well, guess what the best solution to have people come to your mobile website actually is.
0:35:04Make a good mobile website.
0:35:06Don't track people.
0:35:07And if you really want to like I have a single thing on my website, Google Analytics, I don't have 60.
0:35:14And 60 is not an exaggeration.
0:35:16I there are programs that let you see how many trackers you have on certain websites.
0:35:22You want to have one analytic service because you need the metrics? Fine.
0:35:26But don't publish web pages that eat up your data connection.
0:35:30That's just ridiculous.
0:35:32Don't make a good website that respects people,
0:35:36that behaves in a way that a good website should behave,
0:35:39and you don't have to use all these different plugins and all these different
0:35:43services. Make a main website that works well.
0:35:46You can have ads, but just, you know,
0:35:49and maybe this is just my way of thinking and maybe it's a limited world view,
0:35:52but it's my opinion.
0:35:53- So I do not disagree with the large point
0:35:58that you're making, but the reason is because
0:36:01a lot of websites can't make money
0:36:03without those types of ads.
0:36:04That's why it exists, right?
0:36:06Where you have found a very great business model
0:36:09and work with people that are like-minded,
0:36:11but that's why we are in this situation, right?
0:36:15- Sure. - Because publishing
0:36:17seems to be becoming more and more difficult
0:36:19for people to make money in.
0:36:20I am not excusing those trackers, merely stating for the devil's advocacy, right, of just like...
0:36:27But especially Google AMP. Google AMP, what's the reason to implement Google AMP? Google
0:36:34AMP is, and I'm going to say this, I take full responsibility, Google AMP is basically
0:36:38extortion from Google.
0:36:41In what way?
0:36:42In a way that they obviously promote, in search results, websites that use AMP stuff, right?
0:36:49They have a whole thing for news that you tap on an AMP result and then you can swipe
0:36:53through multiple websites.
0:36:55But what is Google's benefit though?
0:36:58That you keep using Google because, oh my god, these websites are so fast.
0:37:06It feels like it's a whole evil plan to have these websites implement Google Ads.
0:37:13Google ads, obviously, they slow down web pages and they come with all kinds of different
0:37:20trackers and now these websites are not making, you know, they have users complaining about
0:37:26the fact that these websites are slow. And so Google comes in and says, "Okay, look,
0:37:30this very problem that we created, but don't think about it that way for now. What if we
0:37:34also gave you a plugin that speeds up your website?"
0:37:37I don't know about this part. I don't know about this part.
0:37:40My website is slow because you gave me ads that are slow.
0:37:43But do Google's ad systems slow pages down or is it all the other stuff that people...
0:37:47I don't know if it's Google's, right?
0:37:50Those 60 trackers or whatever, they're like all these crazy companies with their tracking
0:37:54pixels, right?
0:37:55I don't know if it's Google.
0:37:57Well, yeah, but it's part of the problem though.
0:38:00Yes, a problem that they did create, but I don't know if it's Google's thing.
0:38:06I get your point of they want the web to be faster for various reasons.
0:38:11One of those reasons is because then Google's version of the web is faster for you as the
0:38:16user.
0:38:17And why would Google care about that?
0:38:18Because they want to keep people using Google because that's where the money comes in.
0:38:22Look, I am firmly convinced that all these websites are going to regret adopting AMP
0:38:32years from now.
0:38:33Oh, of course they are.
0:38:34will break and it'll stop it's like anything it's like anything in publishing
0:38:38right like there's the darling for a bit and then everybody regrets it right like
0:38:42that's all pivot to video let's all etc etc right like I've seen these these
0:38:47kinds of comments from like the virgin stuff right that they they implemented
0:38:51amp and now they hate it but like what are they supposed to do like they need
0:38:55it because they need people to come and see the the pages I'm pretty sure I've
0:38:59seen articles from them like that right am I am I speaking wrong there that
0:39:03feels about right. Never, never, ever trust plugins. Control the stuff that you publish.
0:39:12Have it be basic web standards and you're going to be fine. Don't trust these fads that
0:39:20come about, even if they last for three, four years. Have it be standard stuff. Text. It's
0:39:26all about text and HTML. That's what it should be. Don't trust plugins because you're going
0:39:30to regret it. This stuff happens all the time, and now there's this scroll service and people
0:39:36are going to be all excited about scroll and then it's going to stop working in a few years,
0:39:40and the cycle repeats itself over and over and over. It's demoralizing, and as a user,
0:39:48AMP results are just terrible. It's a terrible user experience. So now I am so annoyed by
0:39:54I am looking for two things. One, recommendations from people. If you know of any extensions for Safari on iOS that somehow make it easier to de-amp a webpage,
0:40:09because yes, you can get to the actual URL, but you need to tap on the very small icon in the top left corner, and then you also need to tap on the link.
0:40:19I wish there was a way, maybe a bookmarklet or maybe an extension from the sharesheet that's easier to access
0:40:25or I
0:40:27want to see if there's a way for me to write a shortcut
0:40:30that uses JavaScript in Safari to
0:40:34extract the actual permalink of a page and take me there. I think that's possible, but I'm not sure so
0:40:42Yeah, I
0:40:45fundamentally despise AMP on principle
0:40:48at a practical level. So you're having a great time with DuckDuckGo and it's in Google's
0:40:56place? No, that's also the problem. So I'm back to Google, spoiler alert, because I remembered
0:41:07we've been over this two years ago when I was quoted in the New York Times, or three
0:41:11years ago, I can't remember the problem. I thought that DuckDuckGo improved in the meantime.
0:41:18It is still very bad in terms of search results for me for two types of content, news results
0:41:25and Italian content, Italian results from Italian websites.
0:41:30News, I realized I use Google a lot for.
0:41:33I type something in Safari and either I see the top news at the very top of the standard
0:41:39search page or I select the News tab on Google.
0:41:46in DuckDuckGo are really bad and basically non-existent. Italian search results I essentially
0:41:54couldn't find. It is such a dramatic difference between the Italian stuff that I can find
0:42:02using Google and what I can find using DuckDuckGo. Also, I noticed that Google has much, much
0:42:10better support for indexing content from online forum boards, like communities where people
0:42:17share and talk about stuff like Reddit, for example. The results for that type of websites
0:42:23that you get in DuckDuckGo are also really bad. So I understand, and I believe people
0:42:29when they say "I've been using DuckDuckGo for like two years and I'm totally fine and
0:42:34I always find what I'm looking for", that doesn't apply to me. Maybe it's the things
0:42:39that I search for, maybe it's the fact that I have this mix of English and Italian content,
0:42:43it doesn't really work for me, man. Like, I cannot find what I'm looking for. And if I'm using
0:42:48DuckDuckGo, but then I always have to append the exclamation mark "G" to take me to Google,
0:42:54what's the point, right? I'm just gonna use Google as the default.
0:42:57You just wanna use Google. Like, look, we need to be real about this. Like, I agree,
0:43:01I know people, I have friends who use DuckDuckGo, but like, there are search engines and there is
0:43:06Google. Everything else is something else, Google has it all. And that's just how it
0:43:14is. I'm sorry.
0:43:17So I was hoping it was better, and I do appreciate the message and what Dr. Go is trying to do,
0:43:29but it's not as good as Google for me.
0:43:32And again, just to make this clear before the many things happen, none of this is about
0:43:37like tracking and all that kind of stuff. This is purely about AMP, because like people
0:43:42will tell you to do this to Google, that to Google. That's not what you're looking for.
0:43:47It's not about like minimizing Google's hole on you. It's purely because you don't like
0:43:52AMP. Look, I got principles, all right, in life
0:43:55in general. This is not a case of principles. It's just a pure personal problem with search
0:44:02results. Well, the principle is you hate AMP. Yes, that's the principle. My north star
0:44:08is I hate AMP, how do I get rid of AMP? I thought using a different search engine would
0:44:14be a solution, but no it isn't. And no, I don't want to try Bing or... What about
0:44:19Jeeves, ask Jeeves. No. So, yeah. I've actually been trying out Bing a little bit recently
0:44:27for other reasons. And it's not Google either. It really isn't. It's very different.
0:44:34So Federico, MaxStories had, just to close this loop, MaxStories had AMP for a while, right?
0:44:40Yeah. Yes.
0:44:41And then you got rid of it because of this personal stance.
0:44:44Yeah.
0:44:45Did you see any difference that you're willing to share in mobile traffic or how MaxStories
0:44:50showed up in search after that change?
0:44:53No, not really. Search traffic is up every year. It's doing fine. For some results,
0:45:03we're on the first page of Google, some other results may be on page 2. Obviously, the big
0:45:11stories that get shared, like my iOS reviews or some major app reviews, they tend to rank higher
0:45:18in Google search. So I would say it's fine. I see traffic from news.google.com, whatever
0:45:27the domain is, but we're just not as... obviously we do not end up in the featured Google AMP
0:45:35carousel of websites that support Google AMP. But that is a trade-off that I'm willing to
0:45:41accept. We will never be featured in that special view that lets you flip through pages
0:45:47from different websites, but it's fine because I don't want to use AMP.
0:45:50I want to have a website that is lightweight and fast
0:45:55and that uses as little JavaScript as possible.
0:45:58So that's my priority.
0:46:01And look, I'm totally fine with not getting millions,
0:46:04tens of millions of views every month. It's fine.
0:46:07It's something that I came to terms with years ago, really.
0:46:13I, you know, all, you know, my stance on these plugins and these services, like I want to control everything that I do.
0:46:19That's my priority.
0:46:21And so I we tried AMP years ago for like a month and then realized this is stupid.
0:46:28We should just make our website faster.
0:46:30And that's what we did. We focused on we removed AMP and we worked on making Mac stories super fast and as lightweight as possible.
0:46:38We removed all the legacy JavaScript that we had.
0:46:42We switched to HTML and CSS for certain types of content
0:46:48inside Stories as much as possible.
0:46:50And now we played around with not using Google Analytics.
0:46:53We tried to use a service called Matomo.
0:46:56And we tested it for a couple of months.
0:46:59And then also I realized these results are not
0:47:01as good as Google Analytics.
0:47:03And so I decided Analytics is the only service
0:47:06that I'm willing to put on Mac Stories.
0:47:08and that's the only one that we have.
0:47:10So yeah, now we're even using the native font
0:47:15on Apple platforms, the native San Francisco font,
0:47:18season font, so we're not even loading
0:47:20a remote font anymore, so.
0:47:22- Well, we've got a lot more to talk about,
0:47:25but let's take a break for our second sponsor.
0:47:28That is Smile.
0:47:30TextExpander is one of those tools
0:47:33that can unlock your productivity
0:47:35in a bunch of different ways.
0:47:37Think about things that you may type over and over.
0:47:40So email addresses, phone numbers,
0:47:42common replies, so much more.
0:47:45TextExpander works anywhere you type.
0:47:48So in word processors, email, messaging apps, online forms,
0:47:53you can customize your snippets
0:47:54with fill-ins and pop-up lists.
0:47:57And you can check out TextExpander for Teams
0:47:59if you need to manage snippets for your company.
0:48:01One of my very common things in TextExpander
0:48:04that I use several times a month
0:48:06is when we have to pay people from Relay FM,
0:48:09I have some details that have to be exactly right.
0:48:12One payment process reuse requires the name to be typed
0:48:16exactly the correct way or it won't go through.
0:48:19And I don't wanna make errors,
0:48:21and so now I have a little pop-up in TextExpander.
0:48:24And if I'm in that field on the bank's website,
0:48:26I can type my snippet and I get a little dropdown.
0:48:29It's like, okay, I can select Myke's name
0:48:30and it formats it the way it's supposed to be,
0:48:33and it has stopped me from making errors in that form.
0:48:37And it means that I can just type a couple of keystrokes
0:48:40and be able to select from this long list of multiple people.
0:48:44TextExpander is available for macOS, Windows,
0:48:47Chrome, iPhone, and iPad.
0:48:49And connected listeners will get 20% off their first year.
0:48:53Go to textexpander.com/podcast
0:48:56to learn more about TextExpander.
0:48:58That's textexpander.com/podcast.
0:49:02If you've been meaning to try TextExpander, now is the time.
0:49:05Go check it out at textexpander.com/podcast.
0:49:09Our thanks to TextExpander for their support
0:49:11of this show and Relay FM.
0:49:13So this week marks the 10th anniversary
0:49:17of the iPad keynote.
0:49:18It came out in what, March or April, several months later.
0:49:22But the keynote anniversary is this week.
0:49:25And we wanted to sort of point it out here.
0:49:30There's a bunch of stuff in the show notes.
0:49:32Myke, you and Jason spoke about it, Upgrade 282.
0:49:35Federico, you and John spoke about the iPad
0:49:38as far as like from the app angle
0:49:41on App Stories episode 147.
0:49:44And several people asked us to cover it
0:49:46like play by play on Connected.
0:49:48Well, we did that five years ago on episode 24 of Connected.
0:49:53So you can go listen to much younger versions of us.
0:49:56Do that if you want.
0:49:58I have literally no memory of this episode.
0:50:00Yeah, me neither.
0:50:01I do not remember doing this, which is hilarious.
0:50:04Was it us?
0:50:05Do we actually do it?
0:50:06It looks like it.
0:50:07But if you're looking for another play-by-play, I watched this on a plane.
0:50:11Steven watched the entire thing, which was wonderful.
0:50:15Yeah, so I did like a commentary track sort of thing and posted that on YouTube and it
0:50:22was fun to rewatch it.
0:50:23wild how much the how much of the the iPad is the same but in and how many
0:50:32ways it's totally different than it was in the beginning like the very vision of
0:50:37the iPad has changed so much and it's it was it was fun to revisit it I loved
0:50:44some of the stuff that dated it like when they were saying that like we make
0:50:48more mobile devices than even Nokia. Yeah. And it's like, oh my god, oh my god, it's so good.
0:50:55Yeah, there's that there's, I mean, it opens with like an iPod update. It really is funny. And,
0:51:03and the whole thing, you know, he, he is really interesting, because they feel like they justify
0:51:10the product's existence. Like when there's a new iPad Pro or a new Mac, like, oh, yeah, like,
0:51:14we know what this is, but with this, with the new category, it is really different because
0:51:22they have to define the category.
0:51:24And so they compare it against netbooks, which was the hot thing in 2010.
0:51:28A bunch of people wanted Apple to build one, and it is really interesting how they sort
0:51:34of decimate them, and now they're totally gone.
0:51:36Yeah, I skimmed the keynote video again and it's still so...
0:51:43I don't know, it's still so fun to look at, like, and remember
0:51:48like, the things that we were expecting and all the rumors back then and
0:51:52like, the names that we thought they were gonna use for this device
0:51:57It's just, it's something that I remember so clearly, for me it is the...
0:52:01It's the keynote that I associate with starting MacStories, because it was the first big new
0:52:08Apple product since I started the website in April 2009.
0:52:12And so in January 2010, the website was still very much new.
0:52:17And like, I don't want to say that I, well, yeah, to an extent, I had no idea what I was
0:52:22doing, but I know that this was going to be a big deal.
0:52:24And like, this is for me the event that really convinced me, oh, this is something that I
0:52:30cover. So it doesn't feel like 10 years but also looking at it and like the Nokia
0:52:37reference for example, yeah it's been 10 years, it's been a decade, so it's been a
0:52:41long time. And it also highlights like this decade, this 10 years. We talked
0:52:48about this last week I think but you can see the clean break in the middle in
0:52:522015 with the iPad Pro. Like you can absolutely see the separation between
0:52:58the first five years. Like, the first couple of years, the first iPad and the
0:53:04iPad 2 and the retina iPad 3, which was called the new iPad, and then basically
0:53:10nothing. Like, yeah, there was the iPad 4 and the iPad Mini, but the software
0:53:15really suffered and Apple made no new apps, basically, for the iPad. And then the
0:53:22iPad core came out in 2015, but Apple was already a very
0:53:26different company then. So it feels to me it feels longer I know that it's you
0:53:33know that's not how it works but to me if the time between the original iPad
0:53:39and the first iPad Pro in 2015 feels longer than from 2015 to now. Well because
0:53:47we were kind of stuck in limbo it was stuck in limbo I mean the
0:53:50introduction of the iPad mini was a big moment but the regular iPad was just
0:53:55like this is what it is and that will be it for a while right like and it really
0:54:02was like that for a long time and then you know they brought like a retina
0:54:06screen to it they made it lighter like they made this sort of change you should
0:54:09expect but it needed the change that it got in 2015 which then that you know
0:54:17changing to the iPad Pro then trickled down to the rest of the iPad line making
0:54:20all of the other iPads better in the meantime as well.
0:54:23And look, I'm just gonna adjust the elephant in the room and see it.
0:54:27The iPad will all, I think, will at this point will always be the kind of product that every few months
0:54:35a few people get together on their websites, on their blogs, and write about how a failure it is.
0:54:41How it's not a replacement for traditional computers, how Apple dropped the ball, and the Mac is a better computer,
0:54:50and nobody's using the iPad.
0:54:53I think this has happened so many times already. It happens, it's a cycle that repeats itself
0:54:59multiple times a year almost on a regular predictable schedule at different times of the year.
0:55:06Usually in the winter, right after WWDC, and sometimes in the fall. It can be twice or
0:55:16three times a year, but it's a very regular schedule that some people all like it flares
0:55:22up and everybody starts talking about the iPad again, how much of a failure it is, and
0:55:28it's a tragedy, and then it blows over again. Now, I don't really feel like, and specifically
0:55:36I think Myke and I, we've talked about this topic so many times over... We've been doing
0:55:45the prompt and are later connected since 2013. We've been talking over seven years about
0:55:51this topic so many times that there's nothing that we can possibly add to the
0:55:57conversation that we haven't already said. Which is... and I think Myke agrees
0:56:03with me, it's fine. Like, the iPad has problems, had problems, Apple got to a
0:56:09better place with the iPad Pro. But then if you don't want to use it, you don't
0:56:13have to use it. We're not saying that it's a us versus them
0:56:19situation, like if you want to use a Mac it's fine. We just enjoy using the iPad more. Personally,
0:56:27like it's our personal preference. And personally, I do not believe that nobody is using the
0:56:37iPad as others would have you believe. I think that's inaccurate. But there's nothing
0:56:44else that we can say if you don't like the iPad, we're obviously not going to change
0:56:47your mind. Yes, it's got problems. There's some features of iPadOS that could use a lot
0:56:55more work. But I personally don't believe that the iPad is, at the moment, in an unusable
0:57:04state. I strongly disagree with John Gruber on his article about iPad multitasking. I
0:57:11think, yes, it could be improved. I do not think it...
0:57:15But it's also ignorable. Like, if you don't want to use iPad multitasking and you want
0:57:21to use your iPad as one app at a time, you don't even have to set that mode where you
0:57:25do one app at a time. Because it's kind of like, if it's so undiscoverable, you should
0:57:31never discover it by accident, so it shouldn't be a problem for you, right?
0:57:35What I think is funny is that every time this cycle repeats itself, and there's the latest
0:57:42installment of these stories. People feel compelled to tell me about it. And while,
0:57:50you know...
0:57:51Don't you know? Don't you know? Don't you know, Federico? You must not know. It's
0:57:56kind of silly, really, that you've been using the iPad all this time, but yet you don't
0:58:00know how bad it is. I feel sorry for you.
0:58:03That's what I think it is. It is a very funny phenomenon that happens every single time.
0:58:08of like, I'm just minding my own business and, you know, I'm doing my job and I'm writing my stories.
0:58:17Every once in a while I give people an update on how I've been using the iPad and the things that
0:58:22I'm doing with the iPad, but it's not like I spend my life constantly obsessed with proving a point
0:58:29about the iPad. Like every once in a while I have a story or maybe we talk about the latest
0:58:33the successor is that about, but then that's it. Like, I'm not on a mission. I'm not on
0:58:38a quest to prove a point. I had a point to prove years ago and that was it. And now it's
0:58:44like, it's what I don't understand. It's this, "Oh, don't you know that you're wrong? How
0:58:50can I be wrong if it's working for me?" So this like, this, "We need to show you the
0:58:56truth of like, we need you to see the light," is what I don't really understand.
0:59:02That people just want to help you Federico.
0:59:04And that's like this insistence on why don't you accept our help and don't you change your
0:59:10opinion.
0:59:11That I think is really, it's a really fascinating psychological thing going on.
0:59:17But it's like, imagine the opposite.
0:59:20Imagine if every few months we start, you know, me and you and Jason and maybe John
0:59:25worries, like, you know, publishing stories about the Mac is useless.
0:59:32Maybe we should.
0:59:33And like, we started getting in touch, like, Jehovah Witness style, you know, getting in
0:59:39people's mentions and DMs and be like, "Hey, don't you know that you're using the wrong
0:59:43computer?"
0:59:44It's like, why?
0:59:46What's the point?
0:59:47I might start writing articles about the Mac App Store.
0:59:50See now, that's a whole, that's a whole, that's a whole thing.
0:59:53But yeah, so the iPad, a 10. Not a perfect product, but also not a doomed product. And
1:00:02I don't think, I mean, this is where I draw the line. I don't think it's multitasking
1:00:08is a catastrophe. I don't think it ruined the iPad. I also don't think the iPad should
1:00:15have stayed the same way forever. I think I want to see what iPadOS means. I want to
1:00:20let the facts speak. I want to see what Apple actually does. This whole thing of like, it's
1:00:26useless. No, it's useful. No, it's just like this is this. This, what we're doing now is
1:00:32useless. This entire conversation has no point. If only just to talk about like what happens
1:00:38every few months. So I think we've had our share of this conversation and this topic
1:00:44for a while. Maybe we can talk about it again in a couple of years. Maybe when the iPad
1:00:48turns 15 and if we'll still be doing connected together, I hope so.
1:00:53No, it's coming up again in April.
1:00:55It's yeah, I fear so.
1:00:59Because there'll be another news cycle like this one, right? And I know that you're working
1:01:02on it because like April is the anniversary of the product's release. Like what we've
1:01:06just experienced was the anniversary of its introduction. I guarantee you this comes up
1:01:11again in April.
1:01:12Yeah. And look, I also want to clarify, I don't mean that because we like the iPad,
1:01:18shouldn't hold Apple to a higher standard and complain about stuff. That's the point.
1:01:23If you go to my iPadOS review, there's a single page that I dedicated. It's called
1:01:33the complexities of multi-window. It's basically a single page of complaining about things
1:01:39that do not work with actual examples and screenshots and videos. So like, yeah, I know
1:01:45that we should complain to Apple and share criticism.
1:01:49But also, I don't like hyperboles, you know?
1:01:53I don't think things are useless.
1:01:55I don't say the Mac is useless because it's not.
1:01:57It's got problems, and it's, you know,
1:01:59I apply my taste and opinion to judging it,
1:02:03but it's not useless, so it's black and white, you know?
1:02:07I don't like it.
1:02:09- I mean, I think some of it comes from the era
1:02:12where people were afraid that the iPad
1:02:13was going to replace the Mac.
1:02:15And for a while, Tim Cook and others sort of talked
1:02:18like that was going to be true.
1:02:20The future of computing is this, and that
1:02:22means that the way you compute is old fashioned.
1:02:24And I think people read a lot into that.
1:02:27And I think if anything, Apple has
1:02:29proven over the last couple of years
1:02:31that these two platforms are going to be
1:02:33in parallel for a long time.
1:02:36You don't invest in things like Mac Catalyst or the Mac Pro
1:02:41or our Macs, if, SwiftUI, if you think that the Mac has
1:02:46had its time and that the iPad is gonna take it over.
1:02:49And that's kind of a separate discussion,
1:02:52but I feel like people who are still afraid of that
1:02:56just haven't been paying attention
1:02:58the last couple of years.
1:02:59And I find that frustrating.
1:03:01- Let's talk about what Michiko Spoke reported today.
1:03:04There's an article from MacRumors outlining
1:03:07a selection of products that were all expected
1:03:10to be released in the first half of 2020,
1:03:14most likely in the spring, so probably around March time.
1:03:18So I have a list of products,
1:03:20and a few of them have some additional details.
1:03:23One of them is Ultra Wideband Tags.
1:03:26This is the product that we've been pretty familiar with
1:03:30from leaks and screenshots and all kinds,
1:03:32and MacRumors in their article even have the screenshots
1:03:35that they were able to unearth of the UI inside of iOS
1:03:39that enables and allows you to register these tags.
1:03:43They're believed to be called AirTags,
1:03:45and this is like the tile thing, right?
1:03:48So Apple will create a little plastic doohickey
1:03:52that you put inside of your wallet,
1:03:53you put inside of your backpack,
1:03:55and then those products, those items, I should say,
1:03:59will then show up inside of Find My.
1:04:02Quo believes that the tags will support ultra wideband,
1:04:06which is currently the most useless thing
1:04:08Apple's ever put into an iPhone because I'm telling you, whatever is supposed to happen
1:04:13to airdrop doesn't work, right? I'm not alone here, right? Like nothing changed with airdrop.
1:04:21Has anybody ever gotten anything different to happen in airdrop? Like I noticed sometimes
1:04:27it taps. Yes. Yes. And it taps me. Yes. And then it says, hold up the phone and I do it
1:04:32and nothing happens. Right? Like, so currently there is a chip inside of our iPhones that
1:04:38does nothing but is most likely there for support of things like this. Ultra wideband
1:04:45would allow you to find these products with much greater accuracy than Bluetooth or Wi-Fi
1:04:51apparently right like if it works so that would be pretty cool so you'd be able to find
1:04:56these tags and of course because of the way the iPhone works and you would be able to
1:05:02in theory be on the other side of the world with one of these tags and you'd still be
1:05:07be able to find your product because it is talking to other devices that are around it.
1:05:12It doesn't just have to talk to yours. It's very clever stuff and obviously would be great
1:05:16for Apple because you don't, you know, with products like Tile and Tracker, they have
1:05:23these mesh networks, right, where like every, the devices can talk to anybody that has the
1:05:27Tile app installed. So to do that thing where like if I left my bag in Rome and Federico
1:05:33have the tile app installed for his tile products. It could, in theory, my tile could talk to
1:05:39his app to help tell me where my bag is. Right. That's how these products work.
1:05:44Remember when I found your bag in an elevator at E-Thro?
1:05:47Pause that for a second because that's a great story. But so then, then, yes. But, but like
1:06:00Like we all have to be using the app, which is way fewer users than every single iOS or
1:06:07macOS product on the planet of the earth, right, that is using iOS 13 or macOS... what
1:06:15are we on now?
1:06:16Catalina.
1:06:17Catalina.
1:06:18Or more, right, like that is, that's like so much stuff you'd be able to find your bag
1:06:22again.
1:06:23Federico, do you want to tell the story quickly of when you found my suitcase?
1:06:25Yes.
1:06:26We were coming back from WWDC and of course we landed in London and I had a layover to
1:06:34go back to Rome.
1:06:35So we were flying together so we wait for our bags together, we get our bags at baggage
1:06:44claim and then we go outside, I needed to basically exit the airport and go back in
1:06:49for departures.
1:06:51Because it was like a four hour layover.
1:06:53So we say goodbye, Myke goes to one elevator, I go to another elevator.
1:06:59And I need to take this lift to go up, I guess, from Arrivals back to departures at Ithro.
1:07:05So I get in the elevator and I'm looking at my phone and I'm sitting by... not sitting,
1:07:10I'm standing by the door.
1:07:13The door opens on another floor, which was not departures yet, and somebody says "Excuse
1:07:20me, because I was standing in front of the door. So I move to let this person pass, and
1:07:27with the corner of my eye, I take a look at this, at the case that this person was holding,
1:07:35and I see a sticker with Myke's cartoon face on it. And it was like a fraction of a second
1:07:44like, like, Oh yeah, that's Myke's face. And I go back to look at my phone and like,
1:07:49it dawns on me, like, wait, what is Myke's face doing on that case? Suddenly I burst
1:07:59out like, uh, sir, that is not your case. And we're all standing inside of an elevator
1:08:09packed full of people. Right. And everybody's looking at me like, and this person is like,
1:08:14And I was like, "Yes, are you coming from San Francisco?"
1:08:18And this man is like looking at me strange and be like, "Yeah?
1:08:24How do you know?"
1:08:25Like so that is more, I'm like, and again, everybody's looking at me and I'm like,
1:08:30"That case is my friend's case.
1:08:33I know that because of the sticker.
1:08:36So what we're going to do now is we're going to exit the elevator and I'm going
1:08:39to call my friend because he definitely has your case."
1:08:42And so everybody's looking at us and we get out at a parking level, definitely not the
1:08:51departures floor, and I call Myke on the phone.
1:08:55And so this guy is still standing there with Myke's case and looking at me like I'm some
1:08:58crazy person.
1:09:00And I call Myke and I'm like, "Myke, your case that you have with you is not your case."
1:09:07I was very confused by all of this.
1:09:10Myke was like, "What?"
1:09:12I was like...
1:09:14And then when I get there, so I go find Federico, luckily I was just about to get on the train but hadn't yet.
1:09:19And I get there and this guy's like all annoyed at me.
1:09:22But the thing was, he picked up my bag first.
1:09:25And the reason I know this is because I got to the carousel and I saw my bag, but it was like it had passed me.
1:09:31So I just let it go, right? Like I let it go back into the thing and come out.
1:09:35And I was waiting there for ages, right? Federico's bag had come out and I was waiting for ages.
1:09:40And then the other bag comes and I picked it up thinking it was mine
1:09:43So I know my bag he had picked it up before it went back into the thing
1:09:48Like I just taken my eye off it
1:09:49So he picked up my bag first and then I picked up his bag because it was one of the last bags left on the carousel
1:09:54So but then the guys all agree. He was all annoyed at me, but he did it
1:09:58He should have checked his bag silly old man. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, so if we had the air tugs, this would have never happened
1:10:05No, it could have still happened. It could have still happened. Yes, but can you imagine if we man?
1:10:10I often think about that. I often think about that like yeah, how would that have been resolved? I have no idea
1:10:16I had no idea any who yeah that means you quoted not report on that
1:10:21That was that was not part. I don't know if he made it clear
1:10:24But that whole story was not part of Ming Chi quos report. It was just the air tags part
1:10:28That's a bummer it was my the story of me losing my suitcase was not in there. Here's a fun one
1:10:34I was talking about just like two weeks ago of you guys high-end wireless headphones
1:10:38coming in the first half of the year from Apple.
1:10:41Head pods are back baby!
1:10:44There's no more details on this one except to say that these things exist but it makes
1:10:49sense right?
1:10:50It makes as much sense as it made then, actually probably more right?
1:10:54The AirPods Pro seem to have done so well it makes so much sense for Apple to just keep
1:10:57making all the great headphones.
1:11:004.7 inch iPhone with an LCD display, touch ID and the home button but with a faster A13
1:11:07chip and three gigabytes of RAM. This is I feel like this this this new version of what
1:11:14we expect is the SE right? I can't think of a product in a long time where the specs of
1:11:19it have changed so frequently in rumors. Because if you remember last time we heard it was
1:11:25going to be a smaller version of a 10 with face ID and then there was going to be it
1:11:31it's not going to have face ID but have a touch ID sensor in a side button, right?
1:11:37That was when Steven thought iPhone 9, but now I don't know what it's going to be now.
1:11:43It could just be the iPhone SE 2.
1:11:44They could still call it the iPhone 9, but it definitely feels much more like an iPhone
1:11:488 than anything else, I guess.
1:11:50Yeah, I think that makes the most sense if this is to be a low-cost phone/bridge phone
1:11:58to get people who want the old design into newer technology, then I think that all sort
1:12:02of jives with that.
1:12:03$399 is a great price for a new iPhone, if that's the case.
1:12:09Refreshed iPad Pro models featuring a triple lens rear camera system that supports 3D sensing
1:12:14for augmented reality.
1:12:15Okay.
1:12:16I've had this rumor for a while, right, that this was something that was coming to the
1:12:19iPad.
1:12:20I think we even heard about the 3D sensor thing before the iPhone got three cameras.
1:12:26room has been around for a long time. I think it makes a lot of sense that they would be
1:12:30updating the iPads in the spring. But I think it is really going to be interesting to see
1:12:36whether they get many more substantial updates, including 5G radios. Like I think that's the
1:12:43key part. Quo didn't really say anything more other than this. So that's kind of where we
1:12:48we are right now. It is unclear exactly what laptop quo is talking about here, but there
1:12:56will be an update to a laptop whether MacBook Pro and/or MacBook Air updates. There isn't
1:13:03really much information about what that will be, but we'd expect some keyboard changes
1:13:07and/or an introduction of a smaller MacBook Pro.
1:13:12And then one that has been, like it was, I thought, hilariously to me, kind of overlooked
1:13:17in the MacRumors report is a quote "smaller wireless charging mat" it's coming back boys
1:13:22air power is coming back air power is coming back
1:13:25oh no why smaller? like smaller than what it was supposed to be?
1:13:31yeah because it's not going to be air power they're just going to make an apple charging
1:13:36mat I tell you what I think it is right? Qi charging only? and then Qi charging comes
1:13:41to the Apple Watch that's what I think they're going to do
1:13:45So for now it's gonna be iPhone plus AirPods and eventually also the watch.
1:13:50But the watch is gonna switch to...
1:13:52Yeah.
1:13:53That's what I think they're gonna do.
1:13:55Can the Apple Watch switch to Qi charging though?
1:13:58Who knows man.
1:14:00If they can put a Qi charger inside of the AirPods case I'm sure they can put one inside
1:14:03of the Apple Watch.
1:14:04That's a good point.
1:14:05I don't know but I do feel like it's not AirPower, right?
1:14:10It's not.
1:14:11if anything they needed to make air power bigger so they could get all the tech in it.
1:14:15I can't imagine that they are able to deliver on a smaller version of air power whilst also
1:14:21never delivering on the original one. Those two things don't seem to jive in my brain.
1:14:26Well you want the fire to be more contained so smaller makes sense.
1:14:30That's true, a smaller fire, we all know that smaller fires, they don't grow because they're
1:14:34too small to attach to anything.
1:14:36So two questions. When do we think new iPad Pros and is the triple lens camera system
1:14:46all that we should expect? I mean obviously it's gonna have like maybe a new CPU and that
1:14:51kind of stuff. Oh definitely a new CPU. They wouldn't do it without putting a new CPU in
1:14:56it. But when and what else I guess? I think March and I do think 5G. Hmm. Okay. Yeah that's
1:15:06That's a good guess.
1:15:08- March makes sense.
1:15:09There's a lot of past March events, right?
1:15:11So that's a month that they've played in before.
1:15:13I think the triple camera thing,
1:15:16we spoke about it weeks ago,
1:15:18if this really is like a big move in AR,
1:15:20having it out with the iPad six months
1:15:22before it comes to the iPhone gives developers
1:15:26time to be playing with it.
1:15:28And when it ends up coming to the iPhone later,
1:15:31with the depth sensing and all that junk,
1:15:33then they can say, "Look, we've had this out for a while.
1:15:36all these apps that take advantage of it and now you get this great experience on your
1:15:40iPhone as well.
1:15:41They don't even have to say we can't wait to see what you do with it because people
1:15:44already have done something with it.
1:15:46So they can say instead like three developers would have we're so we're so happy to see
1:15:51what you have already done with it.
1:15:52That's what Tim will say.
1:15:53What do you think?
1:15:54I don't know.
1:15:55I was I was kind of hoping to to have a repeat of the 2017 10.5 announcements.
1:16:03So like WWDC and iPad Pro announcement in the same keynote.
1:16:07I thought that was really fun, especially because now they could do new iPad Pro, add
1:16:12WWDC with new sessions for the AR stuff and iPadOS features in the same keynote.
1:16:20So that would be a nice combo of like more iPadOS and more iPad Pro and it all works
1:16:26together.
1:16:28So that could be interesting, but I could also definitely see a March event, especially
1:16:32if they have a bunch of stuff to announce, they can maybe throw it all together in a
1:16:36single keynote. Although Apple has also been doing a bunch of press releases for things
1:16:43that we expected they would do a keynote for. I mean, look at the AirPods Pro and the AirPods
1:16:492, they were just press releases. So like, I don't even know if you should expect a
1:16:53keynote to have a bunch of features, a bunch of products.
1:16:56I don't even, I'm not set on this, all of these things coming out in an event.
1:17:01They could just be they could easily be press releases.
1:17:04I mean, even the headphones, even if they would be completely new products, they could
1:17:08easily just do a press release.
1:17:10The new iPhone model also maybe that's what that's what makes me think they'll be a press
1:17:15release.
1:17:16If there's an iPhone in this mix, I think that's got to be an event.
1:17:20See that stat.
1:17:21See, you see, I completely disagree.
1:17:23I feel like this is an iPhone you don't want on an event.
1:17:26Yeah, because it's bad.
1:17:28It's bad.
1:17:29I know offense.
1:17:30No offense. But like it's hardly an exciting product, right? Like what does Santa say?
1:17:35He'd be like, "With our amazing Touch ID, that's..."
1:17:38That's not your face.
1:17:40Definitely not better than Face ID, right? Like I can't even perceive of how they would like spin this in an event.
1:17:48In the way that if they just did a press release, they could do it way more reserved.
1:17:53For our customers with fingers...
1:17:56And no faces.
1:17:59Oh god. Yeah, it's not the iPhone that you wanna roll up the red carpet for and be like
1:18:08"here's the event for a new iPhone that is cheap and has Touch ID." I don't know.
1:18:13Because I guess really the only things... I mean like, the wireless headphones I would
1:18:19have said "oh they'll definitely do an event for it" except they didn't for the AirPods
1:18:22Pro. And you've got like the AirTags which I just don't think are that exciting. It's
1:18:27It's like a nice add-on product. It's like, it's not exciting, but it's,
1:18:31it's not exciting. I,
1:18:33I don't know about this cause like you can point to that Brooklyn event,
1:18:39right? But that Brooklyn event,
1:18:42which showed off the iPad pro that was like a big deal.
1:18:45That iPad pro is a big deal. It's a huge deal. They're not doing that again.
1:18:49Nope. Right. It's going to be an update in this current design.
1:18:54Even all of this stuff here based on the last couple of years,
1:18:58I don't know if you've got an event in there.
1:19:00Because it's a bunch of things, a bunch of like, yeah, refresh MacBook Pro could also easily be a press release.
1:19:07They didn't have an event for the 16-inch with a...
1:19:10Exactly, like you'd see, we would have said before that, oh that 16-inch is a big deal.
1:19:16Yeah.
1:19:16But like what they did instead was like a huge coordinated press effort that just wasn't an event, right?
1:19:23It's like, we're going to give this person in advance, we're going to put this person on a podcast,
1:19:27we're going to have these people come, like, they were able to do a bunch of stuff,
1:19:32which is probably much more effective than having an event.
1:19:35So I think that they're more likely to just do more of that.
1:19:38And really, I think at this point, unless Apple have something huge,
1:19:42we get June and we get September and that's it.
1:19:44I think we, I think we will, there's potential to have like a week of Apple announcements like last year,
1:19:51Because this miscellaneous collection of things to me feels like another.
1:19:56Remember when they did the whole Tim Cook tweets last year?
1:19:59I think that I think that did great for them.
1:20:01Because like people were excited.
1:20:03They were expecting stuff.
1:20:04I think that that was like somebody got a bonus for having that idea.
1:20:09Right.
1:20:10Like it was a very good idea.
1:20:11Very well executed.
1:20:12Yeah.
1:20:13Anything else about this March event or stuff in these rumors?
1:20:17No, I think so.
1:20:19Not really.
1:20:20I feel like a lot of this has been around for a while, right?
1:20:23A lot of the detail that Quo's given is the same detail he's been giving for a long time,
1:20:28but he has now collected them all up and said, "This is all coming in the first six months."
1:20:33Now some of these products, like for example the laptop stuff, he's been saying that they're
1:20:39coming next month for the last six months, right?
1:20:43He's been really banging the drum on these and none of it's happened.
1:20:47We only got some of it.
1:20:48So I don't know, but all of this stuff feels logical to me to come out in the first half
1:20:54of the year because I can't imagine Apple going all the way until June without any of
1:20:59these products coming out.
1:21:00But the first half of the year does include June, so they could announce those iPads in
1:21:05the MacBooks at WWDC, but I'd be surprised.
1:21:08Yeah, that's like the one sticking point in my mind for the iPad is if this depth sensing
1:21:14camera stuff requires iOS 14 or some big update, then like does it get tied to a
1:21:19software announcement? I don't know. They've put huge AR updates in
1:21:24point releases. ARKit 2.0 was iOS 12 or 11.3 or whatever.
1:21:30Right, but they were not using new hardware for that. Yeah, but still. I get
1:21:36your point, but like I think there's a middle ground, right? It could go either
1:21:40way I think. Yeah. Well, let's take one last break and thank our sponsor Booz Allen.
1:21:46Modernizing for the future is a challenge, especially for large organizations. You may
1:21:51need to integrate legacy systems with new technology or incorporate AI and analytics
1:21:56to work more efficiently and make fast decisions. And everyone needs new ways of thinking to
1:22:01move to what's next, whether for government or commercial goals. Booz Allen understands
1:22:06that they're helping some of the world's largest organizations modernize. And they understand
1:22:11that the missions of government industry need to adapt to constant change. They provide
1:22:17open source solutions so clients can integrate innovation from anywhere, whether from visionary
1:22:21startups or major contractors. Plus, they're helping clients power new technology with
1:22:26analytics. And because security is everyone's priority, they integrate their capabilities
1:22:31with intelligence grade cybersecurity.
1:22:34With Booz Allen, integration means putting you
1:22:37in control of innovation.
1:22:39Integrate, innovate, get it done with Booz Allen.
1:22:42Learn more at boozallen.com/relay.
1:22:46That's boozallen.com/relay.
1:22:49We'd like to thank Booz Allen for their support of the show.
1:22:52So Fantastical 3 launched this morning,
1:22:55Wednesday, January 29th.
1:22:56It is a overhaul of the calendar app that we have known
1:23:01And I think all of us have really enjoyed using over the years fantastic al has always been known
1:23:06I think for nice design as well as natural language processing so
1:23:10Normally when you enter a calendar and you know event on the stock calendar app on your iPhone or iPad or even on the Mac
1:23:16There's a lot of like clicking buttons and tapping things and fantastic al kind of got away from all of that with this really smart
1:23:23natural language processing engine and
1:23:26Version 3 brings a lot of new stuff that are good you want to walk us through what's new
1:23:30The big change is that Fantastical is now a free app powered by a subscription to unlock
1:23:37what is called Fantastical Premium, which is the service that unlocks more additional
1:23:42features.
1:23:43And on iOS it's a universal app that runs on the iPhone, runs on the iPad, and it comes
1:23:48with an Apple Watch version.
1:23:51And in terms of feature highlights, I guess there's now a consistent design across platforms.
1:23:57The iPad version looks like the Mac version.
1:24:01Finally!
1:24:02Finally, they got rid of that month view that they had before.
1:24:08That's gone.
1:24:10There's support for calendar sets everywhere and they sync with iCloud.
1:24:14Also finally used to be a Mac only feature, now it's available even on the Apple Watch.
1:24:19You can pick a calendar set.
1:24:22There's new full screen views on the iPhone and the iPad.
1:24:25So now you can do week view, you can do month view on the iPhone, the year view, I don't
1:24:31understand why it's there but some people use it. As I mentioned the iPad app is all
1:24:37new but it needs some additional work. I pointed out a bunch of problems in my review today,
1:24:43like multi-window doesn't really work the way that it should work in that it doesn't
1:24:47let you have different types of content in different windows, which is entirely the point
1:24:52of multi-window.
1:24:53Oh good, I get to see the same calendar side by side. How great.
1:24:58I can see what they're going for. I get the point that you can then have your calendar
1:25:05next to your email and the calendar next to your message. I get that, but you really want
1:25:10to sometimes it would be nice to maybe compare two different sets. So yeah, it would be good
1:25:18if they make that change.
1:25:20Yeah, exactly. Like as soon as I saw multiple windows, I was like, yeah, I guess I'm able to have one calendar in a window and another calendar in another, but no, that's not possible.
1:25:29And also the keyboard shortcut selection is really bad in the iPad app compared to the Mac version.
1:25:36Like you cannot even switch between calendar sets with keyboard shortcuts, which is too bad.
1:25:40And then I guess there's event proposals, like you can create proposals with multiple
1:25:49time slots and send that proposal to invitees to that event, to multiple people.
1:25:56And when they do, they will get an email with a link that takes them to a web app, to a
1:26:00Flexibits web app, where they can pick a time slot that works for them.
1:26:05And when there's a unanimous decision around the same time slot, that event is going to
1:26:10be created in your calendar and invitees will get an actual calendar invitation over email.
1:26:16My favorite thing about this feature is that all of the potential dates that are proposed
1:26:22are all blocked out in your calendar, so you can't double book after the fact.
1:26:28It is worth noting that this feature requires that not only that you have a Flexibits account
1:26:34which is that actually is a requirement of a bunch of new features,
1:26:39but that you need to provide your calendar,
1:26:42you need to provide like Flexibits, the integration with your calendar, right?
1:26:48So, if you sign in with a username and password in iCloud,
1:26:51or you do like the whole Google dance of authorizing,
1:26:54you didn't, you never did, this wasn't even an option to do this in Fantastic
1:26:58Cal 1 or 2, it always read from the accounts that
1:27:02that you assigned into in your Apple settings, right, for your Apple calendar.
1:27:06But, and you can still run Fantastic L like this perfectly, but you don't get to
1:27:13take advantage of some of the new features if you do, if you don't. Not all
1:27:16of the features of Fantastic L3 need this, but a selection of them do
1:27:21require you to give them your account information. So it's just worth noting. I
1:27:27did it. I don't have a problem with it, but I think that it is worth pointing out.
1:27:31Yeah, I also wanted to mention in terms of one last feature
1:27:35Support for multiple time zones everywhere in the app
1:27:39You can see multiple time zones in the event inspector for calendar events. You can actually create multiple favorite time zones
1:27:47In in settings and then if you have an event that is due at 10 a.m
1:27:52Rome time and you open the inspector
1:27:54You will see what that time translates to in London, New York, Chicago
1:27:58or whatever. And also in week view and day view, you have the option to show a dual timeline,
1:28:06so to show an additional time zone on the right side of the screen in addition to your
1:28:11local time zone, which is a very clever implementation. So I really like it.
1:28:17I want to point out too that the Flexibits account you can use sign in with Apple, which
1:28:22is pretty sweet. I haven't seen that in a lot of apps yet. So that's cool.
1:28:27There is a reason you haven't seen this, by the way.
1:28:29We had this as an Ask Up A Big question a couple of weeks ago.
1:28:31Apple changed the deadline date.
1:28:33Right.
1:28:33It's not required yet.
1:28:34Flexibits had no choice because they're a new app.
1:28:38All new apps now you have to include sign in with Apple
1:28:42if you allow sign in with other services.
1:28:45But the update date got moved.
1:28:49So if you're an existing app, you didn't have to do it.
1:28:52Apple understood that maybe they set too aggressive
1:28:56timeline for that. In my use of it, it has been a little bit better to sign in
1:29:03into like directly into iCloud or Google or whatever than using the built-in
1:29:07calendars store. Seems like it's faster to sync. I don't know if that's actually
1:29:12a thing but just in sort of my looking at it it seemed at least that that was
1:29:17the case. But one of my favorite things about this is that Fantastical is now
1:29:22like a full-blown Todoist client.
1:29:25So you can have, you've been able to have in the past
1:29:27your Apple reminders show up in the calendar
1:29:31and if you use the day view and they have due times,
1:29:33they sort of filter in in between events,
1:29:36but now you can do that with Todoist
1:29:38and I don't know how I feel about mixing my tasks
1:29:42and my events, but if you're the sort of person
1:29:45who wants that, it's really nice.
1:29:48Their Todoist integration seems really solid.
1:29:50- The cool thing now though is you can have it
1:29:52as a set so you don't have to see it all the time.
1:29:56- Right, yeah. - Right?
1:29:57See, I have a to-doist set where it has all
1:30:01of my regular calendars plus my tasks.
1:30:03So if I ever do want to see them at the same time,
1:30:06I can choose to do that, you know what I mean?
1:30:09Like if I wanna just compare,
1:30:11honestly, I don't know why I would ever do this,
1:30:14but if I wanted to compare how many tasks I have
1:30:16and how many events I had, I could do that.
1:30:19I like that it isn't just a global on/off like it has been in the past, right?
1:30:26So you now, I guess, have that as a thing.
1:30:28The thing that I thought might be more interesting for me, which is why I did sign in, is if
1:30:31I ever wanted to convert a task to an event or vice versa.
1:30:37So I kind of just left it in for that way, so then I could see it all in one user interface
1:30:41and it would probably be easier for me to do that.
1:30:44I do use Fantastical with both events and reminders at the same time, but I also still
1:30:49use the Reminders app.
1:30:51There's a screenshot in my review that shows you basically what I do.
1:30:55Because basically what I like about Fantastical is that it's like a complete overview of
1:31:00everything that I have going on, but then I use Reminders because of the exclusive features
1:31:06that it has in iOS 13, like rich links and checklists and all that kind of stuff.
1:31:13Fantastical is the complete summary for me. And sometimes I check off a reminder in Fantastical
1:31:19and maybe I create a new reminder in Fantastical, but I mostly just reschedule stuff and the
1:31:25actual creation I do with reminders. And maybe for a reminder as a rich link, I can only
1:31:31see that rich link in reminders. But it's a nice system where everything mostly works
1:31:36together and really the big deal for me is the calendar sets, just being able to have
1:31:43multiple different views for the app, like my podcast set as my podcast reminders and
1:31:52events. But then I also have a writing set where I see no events, but just tasks. So
1:31:58being able to mix and match these different sources of content, I think it's what really
1:32:02sells the app for me, like being able to have this modular setup, essentially.
1:32:09Obviously, another elephant in the room here, it's moving to a subscription model.
1:32:16Before we get to the subscription thing, is there anything else we want to talk about
1:32:20about the app itself? Because we're just going to then have a big conversation about the
1:32:26business model and all of that kind of stuff. I just want to say I love this app. The two
1:32:32features that I wanted were the iPad, a new iPad app which they've given me, they're gonna be the
1:32:36Mac app basically which is what I wanted and calendar sets. I love it. I love the new design.
1:32:41I like having weather because like why not there's weather in your tasks now. Yeah. Like it's just
1:32:46like it is like when you see it it's like that's a logical thing to add right like it just makes
1:32:50sense to me. I'm yeah I really like it. I like the overall UI changes. I think the app is um looks
1:32:58very modern without changing significantly, which I think is a really masterful way that
1:33:03they've handled that. I like the options for dark mode, I like the new icon options.
1:33:09Yeah, that's pretty good. I've not used the Apple Watch app.
1:33:14Yeah, I mean, the iPad app is where I want to see some improvements, but otherwise it's
1:33:20very solid and I like the consistency between different versions. You can go from one version
1:33:26to another and it's mostly going to work the same way.
1:33:29So we've all been using the beta for a bit, right?
1:33:32Yeah.
1:33:33So we got to enjoy all of these things without paying the subscription model and we'll all
1:33:39make our decisions later on if we're going to do that.
1:33:41So Federico, do you want to talk about what the business model for Fantastical looks like
1:33:45right now?
1:33:46Yeah, so it's quite complex and I'll try to make it easy.
1:33:50used to be, before, in version 2, three separate apps, iPhone, iPad and Mac, with different
1:33:58price points.
1:34:00The new Fantastical or Fantastical 3, however you want to call it, is a single Fantastical
1:34:07that can be downloaded for free, and a single subscription called Premium unlocks the Premium
1:34:14features across all platforms, and you can subscribe at $5 a month or $40 a year.
1:34:22Now, what Flexibits is doing here is, if you owned Fantastical 2 before, features that
1:34:29you paid for in the past, you will be able to continue using for free, even if they are
1:34:36behind the premium paywall.
1:34:38Now, this transition, this upgrade flow, is applied on a platform-by-platform basis. So,
1:34:49if you owned the Mac app which offered calendar sets before, and you upgrade your Mac version
1:34:57of Fantastical from 2 to 3, you will keep using calendar sets for free, even if they're
1:35:03are now, in theory, part of a premium subscription. However, if you didn't own the iPhone version
1:35:11and you download Fantastical 3 for free today, you will not have calendar sets. Because basically
1:35:18the app detects on each platform whether you used to have the old version installed, and
1:35:24it will unlock features for you based on the version that you had. The main strategy here
1:35:31from Flexibits is to give existing users of Fantastical 2 full access to all the features
1:35:37they're paying for. It gets a bit complicated and confusing, maybe, once you have to account
1:35:46for the fact that you need to create a Flexibits account to access the premium stuff that is
1:35:55required, and also based on the mentions that I got on Twitter today, the Apple Watch app
1:36:03is now a premium only feature. Obviously, if you purchased Fantastical 2 for iPhone
1:36:09before, the Apple Watch app was part of that, and you can keep using it with a new version,
1:36:18even if you do not upgrade to premium, but you have to create a Flexibits account for
1:36:23the Apple Watch app to log you in and keep working. So the account requirement is, I
1:36:32think, what's confusing for some of the upgraders today?
1:36:36This whole thing is confusing. OK, so this whole thing is very confusing, but it is the
1:36:41most fair I have seen of any developer moving to a subscription model. They have features
1:36:50that they are preserving and enabling that in theory new people will put. I think they've
1:36:55done a good job basically, right, of trying to do the best thing they can, but in doing
1:37:01that have created a complicated situation. It's hard to follow exactly what you get or
1:37:06what you don't get, but I think that I do, I imagine it was also very complicated for
1:37:12them to make this work. So like I applaud them in that regard, right, that they have done,
1:37:18clearly tried to do the best they can, but there are tons of asterisks around what works and what
1:37:26doesn't. But by and large, if you had a feature on a platform, that feature will still work.
1:37:33But there might be a hoop or two that you have to jump through to get it to work.
1:37:36Yeah, basically, yes, that's it.
1:37:38But they're charging $5 a month for $40 a year.
1:37:42If you pay for the $40 a year, you get like 30% off or something, right?
1:37:46Yeah.
1:37:47Yeah. So you get a bunch of extra months thrown in.
1:37:50Yeah.
1:37:51So let's just say, right, $5 a month for a calendar is a lot of money.
1:37:54Yeah. Yeah.
1:37:55Right?
1:37:56Yeah.
1:37:56Like on the App Store economy, it's a lot of money.
1:37:58But like it's not even just the App Store economy.
1:38:01That's the price of Disney Plus.
1:38:03Yeah.
1:38:03Yeah.
1:38:04Right? $5 a month for a calendar is a lot of money
1:38:07when there's a calendar that is built in for free. Now I am a heavy calendar user
1:38:12happily will pay this because I love Fantastical, right? So like for me I
1:38:17don't have a problem with this, right? Like I will do the $40 a year thing, easy
1:38:21to do. I think it's possible that you can buy this subscription on their website
1:38:26and I don't know how they're getting away with that because you're buying... yeah that's
1:38:34like a whole separate thing right if you guys seen this yeah like you can go on
1:38:37their website and buy the subscription yeah you can yeah that's interesting I
1:38:42guess they just not pushing people to it and they're hoping people will do it
1:38:45because I've but like it's not the price isn't any different than the App Store
1:38:49version so they make more money on it there which is cool for them but I like
1:38:53it because I can buy it with because I would consider this a business expense
1:38:57and my my App Store account is tied to my personal bank account but I can go
1:39:04to their website and buy it with my business credit card instead. So like,
1:39:08thank you, Flexibits for making that a feature because now I can go and do that.
1:39:12Right. But right, like for a lot of FantasticOw users, $5 a month is too much.
1:39:17Like I know that Edina is not going to want to pay $5 a month for a calendar.
1:39:22She loves FantasticOw, but like, but the great thing for her is she paid however
1:39:27many pounds it was, and she's just going to keep using the app exactly the same
1:39:32because it's not going to change for her.
1:39:33It is an expensive subscription
1:39:36based on App Store models.
1:39:39Now, do I think that the work
1:39:41that they've done is worth it?
1:39:42Yeah, because like this type of stuff
1:39:44is hard, but they are also going to
1:39:46have a very hard time convincing a
1:39:48lot of people to do this.
1:39:49And I called it in my
1:39:51review a prosumer type of
1:39:53product, because I think that's what
1:39:55it is.
1:39:56I think that's what it is right now.
1:39:57Most people will not
1:39:59pay $40 a year
1:40:01for a calendar app. And if there was some folks who spent $5 years ago and they were
1:40:09still using Fantastical for free, I think it's a hard sell. It's a big ask to say,
1:40:13"Look, you've got to give us $40 a year or $5 a month now to keep using the app."
1:40:18But I think there's a niche of professionals and people who use iOS and Apple devices and
1:40:28want to spend money on apps. Folks who really operate in a calendar every single day, like
1:40:35people who manage their schedules in a calendar app for like multiple hours a day, $40 a year,
1:40:42it's not a big deal for a product that you rely on.
1:40:45I tried moving to other calendar apps over the last couple of years because it felt like
1:40:50Fantastical wasn't going anywhere for a while, and my life was falling apart.
1:40:56Yeah.
1:40:57Right, like I have gotten very used to the feature set that Fantastic Owl has and if
1:41:03I if that is taken away from me or I can't use it like I just am not as effective anymore
1:41:11right like it's become an incredibly important part of my workflow but I do feel like unless
1:41:17you feel that way you probably don't want this.
1:41:23Right, yeah.
1:41:25That's my feeling.
1:41:26Yeah. And I feel like obviously they're going to leave some people behind and there's going
1:41:32to be people who are going to say, no, this doesn't work for me. I'm going to look elsewhere.
1:41:36And that's fine. I think that's definitely part of the calculation that Flexibits did.
1:41:40It was either, you know, we need to let this app basically wither and die on the app store
1:41:49we're going to give up some of our customer base and go for a different type of professional
1:41:56product. And I mean, we've seen these stories before many times, Ulysses, Kert Weather,
1:42:04all these types of more advanced and refined and sort of, again, prosumer is a good word
1:42:10because they're not professional tools like Logic Pro X or Adobe Photoshop, but they are
1:42:15also not the simple apps that you get from the App Store. It's somewhere in the middle.
1:42:21And I think there's an audience for that type of product. They will lose, customers, I'm
1:42:26sure, it's just what it is. It's not like even there will be backlash. There is backlash
1:42:34going on right now. Take a look at what people are saying on Twitter, in my mentions, in
1:42:39Jason Snell's mentions, in Steven's mentions, I think you will see on Reddit, it's a mess
1:42:45because a lot of people do not like subscriptions and that is fine, but also, Flexibits made
1:42:51this decision and I think if you're the type of person, like me, like Myke, like others,
1:42:57that depends on a calendar, on a professional tool to manage your schedule, you know that,
1:43:03and I guess, $40 a year, you know that it's probably worth it for you if you don't want
1:43:08to go insane, I know that I will go insane with a proper calendar. So I think now the
1:43:14big question, my remaining question here, would be now that you have a subscription,
1:43:19I want to see how you keep up with your promise of the subscription lets us iterate more quickly,
1:43:27lets us keep up with the updates at a more regular pace. Because now that you've done
1:43:33the transition, it's time to go back to work and show us why we need to pay on a month
1:43:40by month or year by year basis. So it'll be interesting to see how things change. Fantastical
1:43:46has, when it used to be a paid-up front app, the big updates were sparse and slow. It's
1:43:55always been that type of product. Very few releases, a lot of bug fixes and updates,
1:44:02but in terms of feature additions.
1:44:04It was an app born in a different era
1:44:06when you made a new version
1:44:08and then you had a bunch of updates
1:44:10and then you had to make a new version
1:44:11and charge people again.
1:44:13Now it's a different world with subscriptions.
1:44:16We need to see what that's like.
1:44:18Some developers have done a reasonably good job
1:44:21at moving to this new business model.
1:44:23Again, look at Ulysses, look at current weather,
1:44:25constantly adding new features
1:44:27and improving how other apps work.
1:44:32Timery, another excellent example with the Timery Club.
1:44:36Now we got to see how Fantastical deals
1:44:38with this type of different schedule,
1:44:40because we've never seen Flexibits do this before.
1:44:43- Yeah, it requires lots, right?
1:44:46Like, Timery is a great example.
1:44:49Joe, the developer of Timery,
1:44:52is adding new features to that app all the time.
1:44:56like big new features and like lots of refinements.
1:45:01Like he's got some stuff in the current beta around shortcuts that has allowed
1:45:05me to completely re-architect all of my shortcuts and they're all way better and
1:45:09smaller.
1:45:09Oh yeah. I got to check that out.
1:45:10Oh, that's so good Federico. He's added some really,
1:45:13we'll talk about it after the show. So they are, they've,
1:45:17it's really great. And that is an app where like, yes,
1:45:21like that is why I want subscriptions to exist. This was the point, right?
1:45:25was that it's not that I'm just getting this feeling of like,
1:45:29oh, look at me, I'm supporting my favorite developers.
1:45:32They're just like, no, this is a business
1:45:36to business transaction here.
1:45:38I am paying you a monthly fee for support
1:45:42and for new features and that they,
1:45:45now you don't have to wait a year to build them all up.
1:45:48You just give them to me as you have them.
1:45:50That's kind of what should be happening.
1:45:54So I want to see that because, as we said,
1:45:57there was a long drought between
1:45:59Fantastical 2 and Fantastical 3.
1:46:02And there was a lot of features
1:46:04that seemed to be obvious ones to implement
1:46:06that they didn't, like features that were on the Mac
1:46:09but were not on the iPhone, and they didn't do them.
1:46:13Now, my understanding from conversations that I've had
1:46:17is that they have a roadmap that they want to implement.
1:46:21So let's hope that that happens,
1:46:24and the subscription's worth it, right?
1:46:26- Yeah, and maybe that roadmap could be public, maybe not,
1:46:29but at least I think communicating to customers
1:46:33that yes, we have a roadmap.
1:46:35Maybe that's something that they could have done better
1:46:37instead of just saying the promise of a subscription.
1:46:41I would like to see more developers have a public
1:46:44and more open roadmap, sharing things on Twitter,
1:46:47of things that are coming in the future,
1:46:49because that's what the subscription is for, right?
1:46:51You keep paying with the promise of an actual feature
1:46:53or improvements coming down the road.
1:46:55So maybe--
1:46:56- Yeah, I am also in the belief that subscription pricing,
1:47:01subscription business models should inherently bring
1:47:04more transparency between developers and their customers,
1:47:07because we're in a different relationship at this point.
1:47:09You don't have to surprise and delight me,
1:47:11you already have my money,
1:47:12so show me what you're gonna do with it.
1:47:14I would like to see that.
1:47:15- Yeah, exactly.
1:47:17It's also something that I learned with the club,
1:47:19like telling people, we're working on this stuff
1:47:22and you will be getting this stuff.
1:47:24This is what we're doing now.
1:47:26More transparency always helps
1:47:27when you have a scheduled transaction going on.
1:47:31So we'll see how this goes for them.
1:47:34- Is that it?
1:47:34- I think so.
1:47:35- I think that's it.
1:47:36- All right, if you want to find links
1:47:37to all the stuff we spoke about,
1:47:39head on over to relay.fm/connected/279.
1:47:44While you're there, you can get in touch via email
1:47:47or you can send feedback or follow up via Twitter.
1:47:50You can find Myke there as I M Y K E. Myke is the host of a bunch of shows here on Relay
1:47:55FM. Let's go check those out. You can find Federico on Twitter at Vitici V I T I C C
1:48:00I and he is the editor in chief of max stories.net. You can follow me on Twitter as I S M H and
1:48:07find my work at five 12 pixels.net. I think our sponsors this week, Pingdom smile and
1:48:14Booz Allen. Until next time gentlemen, say goodbye. Adios.