268: Executive Spaghetti


00:00:00   Hello, and welcome to Connected, episode 268. It is made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:14   Moo, FreshBooks, Hover, and Away. My name is Mary Hackett, and I am joined by Federico

00:00:21   Vittucci. Hi, Mary, how are you? Hello, I'm quite well, thank you. So we need to address

00:00:27   is up front. We finally got rid of your husband on the show, Steven. So after much deliberation,

00:00:36   Myke and I discussed it is time for Steven to pursue his true passion, collecting old

00:00:41   Macs, and therefore you will be replacing Steven, Mary. I'm very excited about this.

00:00:47   We had a topic in mind. I know that you have a lot of opinions and thoughts about headphones

00:00:52   and specifically earbuds. I'm guessing for working out and listening to music. So I kind

00:00:58   of wanted to kick things off with this topic. So Stephen mentioned a while back before being

00:01:03   fired from the show that you bought the new Powerbeats Pro, I guess that's the name. So

00:01:13   tell me, and I have a lot of questions for you because my girlfriend Sylvia also bought

00:01:18   these earbuds. I have a lot of questions. So tell me how your experience with these

00:01:22   ones went. Sure. So I should preface all this by saying I don't like to buy new things.

00:01:30   I like to get one thing that works and if it works well I don't want to change it ever.

00:01:36   So I branched out, Stephen encouraged me because my Beats X kept dying. I was on my third pair.

00:01:43   So we branched out and tried the new ones, the Powerbeats Pro, and I was very hesitant

00:01:49   because for several reasons.

00:01:51   The first of which being it takes up a lot of space in my bag.

00:01:55   And I also always have a water bottle in there in my wallet and usually some things that

00:01:59   belong to some number of children in my field notes and my phone and, you know, whatever

00:02:06   else I travel with every day.

00:02:08   So I wanted something, you know, in the, um, my Beats X, their little carrying pack is

00:02:13   fairly flat and I can just fit it in a little pocket.

00:02:17   The Powerbeats Pro is a lot bulkier.

00:02:20   I like the way that it opens.

00:02:21   It's really loud though.

00:02:22   Like you can't really do it conspicuously.

00:02:26   When it opens and closes, it's loud and it's very slick.

00:02:30   So if I drop it, if I'm like trying to do something in the, in the kitchen or like my

00:02:34   my hands are wet and I drop it, it automatically pops open and there go the AirPods, like,

00:02:40   well, onto the floor.

00:02:42   So that's kind of annoying.

00:02:44   But as far as actual sound quality, I really like them.

00:02:50   They fit really well, and that's because besides like going into your ear pretty securely,

00:02:57   it also wraps around the back of your earlobe, all the way around the top in the back.

00:03:03   And that really bothered me at first, but once you get used to feeling it all around

00:03:07   on the side of your heads, it really, I think it helps with the seal a lot.

00:03:12   These are the ones that they have the in-ear rubber or silicone tips, right?

00:03:17   Yes, they do.

00:03:18   And you can, I guess they come in multiple sizes in the box?

00:03:21   I think so.

00:03:22   You can swap them?

00:03:24   Yes.

00:03:25   Okay.

00:03:26   So the main problem that we have, that Sylvia has, basically what you just mentioned.

00:03:32   So she can never use any kind of in-ear earbuds because after a few minutes she says she starts

00:03:41   getting a headache.

00:03:43   She thought that these ones were going to be better.

00:03:46   She used to have the old Powerbeats, not the Pro, not the wireless ones when they still

00:03:52   had a cable running around the back of your neck essentially.

00:03:57   Basically after a few minutes of usage she starts getting a headache at the sides of

00:04:00   her head.

00:04:01   And also she complained about the ear hooks that wrap around your ears. She was also getting

00:04:08   a headache there. So she keeps saying that and I even let her try the new AirPods Pro

00:04:15   with the, they also have the silicone tips. Same problem. So she keeps saying that the

00:04:22   best earbuds for her are the standard traditional non-pro AirPods, the original ones. Have you

00:04:31   ever had any... so you mentioned you got used to the feel of the silicon tips and the ear

00:04:36   hook of the powerbeats. Yeah. So you didn't have any of these issues, you just got used

00:04:41   to them. I didn't, but if Steven were here, if he still had the position that I have now

00:04:48   taken over, he would say, he would agree with Sylvia, that he just can't stand... and maybe

00:04:54   it's just anatomical, like it has to do with the shape of your ear, because he can't stand

00:05:00   either one of these that I have been going back and forth with, the AirPods Pro and the

00:05:05   Powerbeats Pro. Both of those bother his ear, but he loves the original AirPods. But I don't

00:05:12   like them because they don't stay in, and I don't like that they don't form to the shape

00:05:17   of your ear.

00:05:18   >> Interesting. So the AirPods do not stay in for you?

00:05:21   >> No. I mean, I can make it work, but if you're moving around and working out, I just

00:05:28   felt like they were always slipping out and that made me really nervous because I didn't

00:05:32   want to lose one.

00:05:34   So with the Powerbeats Pro, what types of workouts do you usually do?

00:05:40   Everything from just like working on a machine or might be doing yoga where I'm upside down,

00:05:47   doing handstands, you know, turning your head to the side, doing different twists and that's

00:05:52   where I notice I'm having trouble even still with the AirPods Pro.

00:05:56   I've tried both size tips and my ear seems to be right in between the two sizes that

00:06:02   they give because the smaller size will flip out and the medium size doesn't seem to help

00:06:10   much either.

00:06:11   I feel like I can't, it's fine for sound but if I'm going to be in an awkward position,

00:06:16   meaning like my head is to the side and my ears, you know, parallel with the ground,

00:06:21   they're just gravity is going to take over and I lose it.

00:06:23   Have you noticed any differences between the Powerbeats Pro and the AirPods Pro in terms

00:06:28   of the pressure of the silicone tips?

00:06:31   Because Apple mentioned that the AirPods Pro have this new vent system that's meant to

00:06:38   relieve pressure from your inner ear.

00:06:42   They're using better air circulation essentially in these little tiny buds that they have.

00:06:48   So in theory, they should be helping with not making you feel that feeling of pressure

00:06:56   that you get with the Cylakon2.

00:06:57   Like something stuck in your ear, yeah.

00:06:59   Yes.

00:07:00   Have you noticed any differences between the Powerbeats and the AirPods as far as the...

00:07:04   Yes, and I did not realize that that must be what it is.

00:07:07   I just thought that the Powerbeats Pro were just...

00:07:11   I can't really think of another word other than invasive.

00:07:13   Like when you put it in, you really have to...

00:07:15   I mean, because you have to twist it. It's kind of a pain to get them in. You have to

00:07:18   twist it all the way around your ear and then make sure that it's in. And it does feel like

00:07:23   it's just all the way in there. Like I can hear nothing else but my music, which is what

00:07:28   you want. But it does. Yeah, you can feel, like you said, that's a little bit of pressure.

00:07:34   It doesn't cause headaches or any trouble for me. But yeah, that does make the AirPods

00:07:39   Pro a little more comfortable, I guess, in that respect.

00:07:42   And what about listening to music? Any sound differences you've noticed between the two?

00:07:48   Yes, so I really wanted the AirPods are so fancy. The AirPods Pro, I wanted them to be

00:07:54   the best, but they just aren't. The Powerbeats Pro, like I can hear so much more bass. Like

00:08:01   there's a song that I keep listening to kind of on repeat right now. And they have a lot

00:08:08   One of their versions of the song is with a marching band and I listened to the song with last night with the Powerbeats Pro

00:08:14   And then with AirPods Pro and it was so much better on the Powerbeats Pro

00:08:19   Just because I felt like the drum line was in front of me felt like I was on a football field

00:08:22   and then the AirPods Pro just sounds so tinny and

00:08:27   Just almost hurts your ears

00:08:30   Like I couldn't get it as the music as loud because it was just too much trouble and there wasn't enough

00:08:36   bass

00:08:37   to balance it out. A lot of people don't like the beats sound. I do. I think it's fun to

00:08:44   have a little more bass and the drums are a little more prominent. I've always thought

00:08:48   it was fun. I want to feel like I'm there. Yeah, but a lot of people, you know, these

00:08:53   audio files, these people, you know, folks who care about the purity of the sound and

00:08:59   all that stuff, which I totally understand. What are you using them for? Depends on what's

00:09:04   best for you. So next question would be touch controls. So the new AirPods, you

00:09:11   gotta press on the little stem if you want to play/pause and trigger noise

00:09:15   cancellation, but the Powerbeats, they have the little plastic thing by the

00:09:21   side of your ear, right? And they have physical buttons. So what's the

00:09:26   difference like for you? So on the AirPods Pro, the stem, it's just

00:09:33   difficult to get to because the stem is shorter. It's difficult for me to like, I feel like

00:09:39   I have to really work to get my fingers around it, to push pause, to call for Siri. On the

00:09:44   Powerbeats Pro, oh, and there, unless I'm dismissing it, y'all correct me. I can't

00:09:52   find volume control. There's not volume control on the AirPods Pro.

00:09:55   Yeah, there's no volume control.

00:09:58   That drives me nuts.

00:10:00   Drives me crazy.

00:10:01   And on the Powerbeats Pro, it's the button on the top, so there's like a round button

00:10:05   where the B is, and then there's another button up on top a little bit, and that one you can

00:10:11   easily do volume up, volume down.

00:10:14   So on button control, I prefer the Powerbeats Pro.

00:10:17   Yeah, volume control has always been the one feature that a lot of people have wanted from

00:10:24   the AirPods.

00:10:25   I really struggle to imagine how they could do it though, because there's no room for

00:10:29   buttons on the AirPods, unless they were super tiny buttons that you need to press.

00:10:35   And you could probably, with the old ones, with the old AirPods, with the longer stem,

00:10:40   you could probably make the argument that, you know, was a longer stem, therefore maybe

00:10:46   Apple could have explored the idea of sort of swiping across the stem, sort of like a

00:10:50   slider to adjust volume.

00:10:53   But now that it's even shorter on the AirPods Pro, I really don't know.

00:10:56   You know, you're gonna be swiping a finger on your ear essentially, like that's not gonna

00:11:01   work.

00:11:02   Yeah, really the only spot to be, because they've got, is that the vent, the black bit

00:11:06   that's toward the top?

00:11:07   Okay, so that they couldn't do anything there.

00:11:09   But like right below it, I feel like you could have like a tiny little slider where you could

00:11:13   easily just zoop.

00:11:14   Yeah, otherwise you gotta change the volume.

00:11:16   I mean if you have an Apple Watch, you can...

00:11:18   You can use a watch, yeah.

00:11:19   what you're, you know, stop your workout and figure out where it is. Yeah, it's not ideal.

00:11:27   So after the Beats X, between the Powerbeats Pro and the AirPods Pro, what's your pick?

00:11:36   I really like the Beats X best if they just would not break. If they just worked, they

00:11:42   worked. They would be my favorite. How many pairs did you get for the V-Tech? I've been

00:11:47   through three. Oh my god. The first one was faulty, just kind of DOA. So we sent those

00:11:54   back, got it, you know, they replaced them. And then those didn't last very long. And

00:11:58   I think with that second pair, I think the buttons failed or like something with the

00:12:05   sinking in the button, it just, they still worked as headphones, but nothing else worked

00:12:10   easily. And then the third pair of the buttons died, so I just had to get like the light,

00:12:18   the LED failed, and so I had to just guess if it was almost empty, if it was full of battery.

00:12:24   And then it started having problems sinking as well. But I just, I like that I can easily,

00:12:31   with those, between the BeatsX and the Powerbeats Pro, I like that with the BeatsX, you can just pop

00:12:38   it out real quick if somebody's gonna say something or I need to listen with just one

00:12:41   in because I'm also you know paying attention to kids or I'm running out on the road I need

00:12:47   to be able to hear road noise and you can easily stick it back in it's not like with

00:12:51   the Powerbeats or I've got like pull out the huge square and turn it around my ear, stick

00:12:57   it in, yeah I can easily in and out the volumes right there you know by my neck since they're

00:13:03   connected around I mean it's sometimes sure it did it did get tangled up like if you have

00:13:07   a hoodie on and you're running, sometimes it would just kind of pull weird and you have

00:13:10   to readjust, but it wasn't that big of a deal.

00:13:14   So for you, the combination of good enough sound quality and the fact that you had physical

00:13:20   volume controls made them preferable to something like the Powerbeats, which is, I guess, a

00:13:27   little more convenient and maybe they sound better, but the design of the Powerbeats,

00:13:32   it's a whole affair when you gotta pull them out.

00:13:34   Yeah, you're right, the sound is great. Because I did feel like there was some bass

00:13:39   missing with the BeatsX as well, and we played with the volume controls, but it still was lacking a little bit.

00:13:47   I mean, we don't know if Apple is ever gonna do a proper update to the BeatsX.

00:13:54   It seems like they're pretty focused on the Powerbeats and the AirPods right now.

00:13:59   Yeah, it's probably...

00:14:00   And you probably don't want to get a fourth model of the Beats X.

00:14:05   It seems foolish.

00:14:07   I mean, after three tries, it's probably, you know, it's probably it for you.

00:14:11   It's time to move on.

00:14:12   Yeah.

00:14:13   It's time to move on.

00:14:14   So I guess you're going to keep using the Powerbeats.

00:14:16   I think so.

00:14:18   Like I really, I liked a lot of the new, I'm sorry, I don't know the technical terms,

00:14:22   but where you can change the setting on the iPhone to say like block out any noise.

00:14:29   Yes.

00:14:30   noise canceling, that's a really cool feature.

00:14:33   And then where you can have it purposefully be able to hear if somebody calls you, I mean

00:14:39   calls your name, you know like somebody in the room needs your attention, where you can

00:14:42   hear it like clear as day.

00:14:44   That is really cool.

00:14:45   Because then you wouldn't have to have one AirPod out.

00:14:49   You could have them both in and then hear also if somebody was trying to get your attention

00:14:53   or a car was beeping at you.

00:14:54   It's like I wish that those things were on the PowerBeats Pro.

00:14:58   I really just want them both to be squished together. Alas.

00:15:03   The Powerbeats Pro with noise cancellation and all the AirPods features, that would be nice, actually.

00:15:09   And like the smaller packaging. Oh, I also like that it's tough to find, I guess it depends on your bag,

00:15:15   but my bag is black and gray, just like the case, so sometimes I'm staring at my Powerbeats Pro

00:15:22   in my bag while I'm looking at them like "oh, there they are". It's hard to see, but the AirPods Pro

00:15:26   is white and I don't know the inside of any bag that if it starts out white it doesn't

00:15:31   stay white for long. So these are easier to see in my bag too.

00:15:37   Well Mary thank you so much for doing this. This was really, I think it was really informative

00:15:44   because I rarely get to hear the perspective of you know somebody who's tried all these

00:15:51   different earbuds. I think Steven and Myke and I, we just use the AirPods. And I have,

00:15:58   I have, you know, very little experience with the Powerbeats Pro again, because my experience

00:16:03   mostly consists of Sylvia complaining about them. You know, but I totally get it. You

00:16:09   know, headache is not fun. Thank you so much, Mary. Unfortunately, I was just informed by

00:16:16   my legal department that we need to hire Stephen back. Um,

00:16:20   or is, is firing was not, um, was not, um,

00:16:24   definitive decision I'm afraid. So we need, my reign was short. Yes.

00:16:29   I'm very sorry, but it was, it was a, thank you for the chance. Oh,

00:16:32   thank you so much. It was fun. Uh,

00:16:33   we're going to have you back on sometime eventually because as always we need to,

00:16:38   we need your, you're the power beats, you're the power beats, uh,

00:16:42   resident expert at this point. We have Michael is the Apple TV guy, Steven of course, all

00:16:48   things Mac, old and new, and you will be the Powerbeats expert. This is a title that I

00:16:56   just bestowed upon you.

00:16:58   Thanks, Federico.

00:16:59   Thank you.

00:17:01   [Music]

00:17:16   Hey.

00:17:17   Hey. I was talking to the chat room about stuff that I'm working on.

00:17:22   Oh, that's exciting.

00:17:23   Yeah. Also, that was fun with Mary. She did really good.

00:17:27   Good. I'm a little nervous to hear it.

00:17:30   to hear it. Why? In the edit? Nah, don't worry. Don't worry. Yeah, everything's fine. We should

00:17:38   just keep doing the show. Yes. Okay. So earlier in the year, some point in the past, we did

00:17:45   audio predictions. These don't have a name. They probably will at some point. But we thought

00:17:52   it'd be a good time to review these because there's been a lot of stuff that's happened

00:17:58   as you and Mary just spoke about.

00:17:59   Audio predictions could be all addictions.

00:18:04   Pre-audio.

00:18:08   [laughs]

00:18:10   I don't think that's it.

00:18:11   [laughs]

00:18:12   Nope, gotta keep trying, man.

00:18:14   It's looking really tight.

00:18:16   Yes, so, well, Michael is not here.

00:18:19   So I guess this will be hard to adjudicate.

00:18:25   Can you fill Michael's role? Sure, Stephen. Yes. So British accent. I can't I can't do the accent.

00:18:33   But so it's a round one. Myke said that AirPods would gain more controls via touch actions.

00:18:42   Yeah, he's not wrong about that. Not wrong about that at all. I mean, he didn't say AirPods Pro,

00:18:48   but it is a force sensor. But you know, it did it. We're gonna we're gonna give him a point for

00:18:55   for that. Okay. I said at least one more color option comes to the AirPods. I was incorrect.

00:19:02   Yes you were. There were rumors that Apple was going to do the black AirPods and the

00:19:06   gold AirPods for some reason, but that was not true. Not true. I feel like that could

00:19:13   still happen at some point. Like if they need to refresh the product again and it's less

00:19:18   of a big deal, colors are an obvious way to do it. At least the black ones. At least in

00:19:21   in black, which is a standard enough color for earbuds.

00:19:26   Everybody's doing them.

00:19:28   The Samsung ones are black, the new Amazon buds are black.

00:19:33   Pretty standard color.

00:19:36   - And what was your first pick?

00:19:38   - The AirPods, so this is the problem with this pick

00:19:42   that I didn't know any better,

00:19:44   and I did too much for a single pick.

00:19:48   - The classic blunder.

00:19:50   But this is the classic mistake, I should have known better, honestly.

00:19:55   The AirPods line is split in two, yes, which is correct, comma, and this is where the tragedy

00:20:02   occurred, the base version gets a small price drop in 2019.

00:20:08   So this is incorrect.

00:20:11   2019 is still not over, still may be a chance that Apple is going to drop the price for

00:20:16   the AirPods by the end of the year.

00:20:18   I don't think they will though, and therefore this pick is half correct, half wrong, but

00:20:24   we do not award half points on this show for these predictions.

00:20:30   That's correct.

00:20:31   So, ethically speaking, this is not a point, but from a friendship point of view, I feel

00:20:39   like you should give me the point.

00:20:43   I don't think I can give it to you.

00:20:45   Okay.

00:20:46   I'm sorry.

00:20:47   then please go call Mary back.

00:20:50   - So Myke has one, I have zero, you have zero.

00:20:53   Round two, don't worry Myke blew it in this round

00:20:57   and said Apple would release a mini home pod in 2019.

00:21:01   - What was he thinking?

00:21:02   - I don't know, but that's wrong.

00:21:04   - I mean again, the year's not over yet,

00:21:09   but it's November and we haven't heard any rumors

00:21:12   about this. - Right.

00:21:13   That's like prime time holiday shopping stuff

00:21:16   and this is not here so.

00:21:18   - That's Michael, Michael didn't get the point.

00:21:21   Steven, what's your next pick?

00:21:23   - I said the HomePod would see a price drop, which it has.

00:21:27   - Really?

00:21:28   - Yes, it went--

00:21:29   - When did this happen?

00:21:30   - HomePod price reduction.

00:21:33   Well, they're always on sale,

00:21:35   but they went in April from 349 to 299.

00:21:40   - Oh yes, I remember this.

00:21:41   Well, this was when you were bragging

00:21:44   about the year of Steven.

00:21:45   - It's true. - When it happened.

00:21:46   That and all the executive shakeups, which I was also right about.

00:21:52   You were part of that.

00:21:55   I called Tim like, "Tim, I need a point on my podcast."

00:21:59   It's time to get rid of some people.

00:22:01   Please let Johnny Ive go.

00:22:03   Oh man, that happened this year.

00:22:05   I know, right?

00:22:07   My next prediction was, and I'm pretty happy about this one,

00:22:10   this one, shortcuts will gain HomePod/Airplay 2 actions to play audio on HomePod more quickly.

00:22:18   And sure enough, with 13.2, all of this happened.

00:22:23   It did.

00:22:24   You can connect to a HomePod, you can connect to any Airplay 2 speakers, and you can play

00:22:28   pause, shuffle, whatever, you can play audio on them from shortcuts more quickly.

00:22:34   So good job, TG, this is a point.

00:22:38   So we are all tied up now.

00:22:40   One, one, one.

00:22:41   Oh yes we are.

00:22:42   Okay.

00:22:43   And again, hmm, let's see, what do we do here?

00:22:49   Myke said Apple will create some new noise canceling technology.

00:22:55   I don't think what they're doing is new.

00:22:58   It seems like it's better than everybody else.

00:23:00   I don't know.

00:23:01   What do you think about this?

00:23:03   it the AirPods Pro are new and the Beats Solo Pro are new we don't know the technicalities

00:23:11   of the feature therefore it must you know we gotta give Michael the benefit of the doubt

00:23:16   it's a new noise cancellation technology that is he's gotta get the point.

00:23:24   I lean that way too because I mean Apple to talk about how they're using their audio processor

00:23:29   and you know, all that stuff. So I think we give it to him. Yeah, yeah.

00:23:34   Steven, what have you done? What have you done here?

00:23:38   So bad.

00:23:39   What were you thinking? This is worse than the Minio pod.

00:23:42   This is the worst pick of all of them. That Apple would do some sort of Apple news integration

00:23:48   into its audio products. I still think there's room for this. The Echo does it. Google home

00:23:52   does it. Apple does not. You know, maybe they could loop podcasts into this, but there's

00:23:57   There's been no movement here of combining like, you know, the, this, the voice assistant

00:24:03   and the news service.

00:24:05   So that is not a point for me.

00:24:07   For news integration.

00:24:08   That was a bold prediction for you.

00:24:10   It was bold, but it was wrong.

00:24:12   Yes.

00:24:13   And mine was also very, very wrong.

00:24:15   It was based on rumors that we were hearing at the time.

00:24:19   I said, you know, we were hearing that Apple was going to make over ear headphones, like

00:24:25   proper Apple branded non beats headphones and I said Apple head pots because of course

00:24:31   I came up with the name are wireless only have no headphone jack charge either via lightning

00:24:38   or USB C with with power delivery like either via is wild what was I thinking also USB C

00:24:51   power delivery is way overkill for a set of headphones.

00:24:56   Why did I say either VL or USB?

00:25:02   So I have a I have a thought about those rumors that we heard that Apple was going to make

00:25:06   headphones with their the wireless chip and everything. I think those rumors end up being

00:25:12   true except that it was a Beats product, right? Like you can imagine that people who are looking

00:25:17   for Apple rumors in the supply chain or whatever.

00:25:20   Like the difference between Apple and Beats is basically just branding at this point.

00:25:24   They are the same company.

00:25:25   And so what I'm going to try to do in the future when we see these like headphone rumors,

00:25:30   I'm going to try to be a little more agnostic about it.

00:25:32   Like, yeah, that could be Beats or it could be Apple.

00:25:34   Because I just I think that may have just gotten lost in the shuffle somewhere.

00:25:38   Anyways, congratulations, Myke, who is not here this week, but is the the winner of our

00:25:44   audio predictions, it seems like.

00:25:46   If it's not here, should it be the winner?

00:25:49   That's a good...

00:25:50   I mean, if you're running a race and you don't show up, do you really win the race?

00:25:56   That's a good point.

00:25:57   So I don't know, maybe you should get minus one point for not showing up.

00:26:01   Well, that makes it a three-way tie.

00:26:03   No.

00:26:04   Three-way tie it is!

00:26:07   Michael is the winner of the 2019 connected Apple audio predictions.

00:26:15   The official, the first installment of the AAP.

00:26:20   The Unconnected.

00:26:24   I'm really trying to come up with a name.

00:26:26   It's hard.

00:26:27   You know, the Jeremy's and the Ricky's were so obvious, were just like, just obviously

00:26:31   the perfect name.

00:26:32   This one, maybe, maybe someone can help us out and follow up.

00:26:36   The Audios.

00:26:37   All right, we have some follow up and we have topics and we have all sorts of stuff.

00:26:45   but let me tell you about it for sponsor.

00:26:47   How does that sound?

00:26:48   - Okay, sure.

00:26:48   - This episode of Connected is brought to you by Moo,

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00:26:58   If you're new to Moo, you can order a free sample pack

00:27:01   on their website, moo.com,

00:27:03   so you can see what their products look like

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00:28:00   Our thanks to Moo for their support of this show

00:28:02   and Real AFM.

00:28:03   So last week y'all spoke about the AirPods Pro

00:28:07   and I wanted to weigh in on what I thought about 'em.

00:28:10   This may overlap with what Mary talked about.

00:28:12   I haven't heard what Mary spoke about,

00:28:14   So the headline here is I don't think they're for me.

00:28:17   For one, the regular AirPods fit really well in my ears.

00:28:20   I find them comfortable, they don't fall out or anything.

00:28:23   While the AirPods Pro do have those rubbery tips,

00:28:26   I just don't find them as comfortable.

00:28:28   I think it's because they are further in your ear

00:28:31   and I really dislike that feeling.

00:28:33   I don't know what it is.

00:28:35   I found tips that were comfortable

00:28:36   and the fit test thing checked out okay,

00:28:39   but I found the additional pressure

00:28:42   Sort of the fullness the fullness feeling I had in my ear

00:28:45   I really disliked I will say though that the active noise cancellation like Myke said is better than I expected

00:28:51   I find that generally a very uncomfortable sensation after a while and

00:28:55   Wearing the AirPods Pro for several hours with the noise cancellation on

00:29:00   Was fine by the end of it. I felt you know like fatigue was starting, but it was better than I thought

00:29:07   But at the end of the day, they're a little less comfortable for me personally, and I really like the regular AirPods

00:29:13   So I'm gonna stay put. I've grown used to the noise cancellation of the AirPods Pro

00:29:18   over the past week. I also find it very comfortable, especially compared to other

00:29:24   earbuds and headphones with noise cancellation. I do get the sort of the weird feeling for the first couple of minutes

00:29:31   but that it's sort of a

00:29:33   It's almost like it

00:29:35   fits itself to, like, over time to work better for me.

00:29:40   Like, it gets better after a couple of minutes.

00:29:44   I don't know if it's a new pressure, you know,

00:29:48   system that Apple has created with the vents

00:29:50   in the AirPods Pro, but it really does work well.

00:29:53   Like, it feels a little strange for the first minute,

00:29:57   first couple of minutes, and then it gets a lot better.

00:29:59   And I tried either in pure noise cancellation mode

00:30:02   or the transparency mode, works really well.

00:30:05   The only issues that I've had over the past week,

00:30:10   just randomly and sometimes the AirPods Pro disconnect

00:30:13   from my iPhone or Apple TV, but it only happens once.

00:30:17   Then I got to reconnect and it's fine.

00:30:21   It appears that like it happens at least once

00:30:23   after I take them out of the case

00:30:25   and I first connect them to a device.

00:30:28   They drop the connection after like a minute.

00:30:31   It happened like three times.

00:30:34   So it's completely random and occasional,

00:30:37   but I thought I'd mention this.

00:30:39   And yeah, I'm really happy so far.

00:30:43   So Stephen, you're going back.

00:30:48   - Yeah, I'm gonna stay with the,

00:30:51   I have the AirPods 2, the revision with the wireless case,

00:30:54   and I'm gonna stay with those.

00:30:56   - Yeah, well, makes sense.

00:30:59   - Yeah, but I do, I don't really have a lot of environments

00:31:01   where I need the active noise cancellation.

00:31:04   Like I'm not on a train or a bus

00:31:07   on any sort of regular basis, right?

00:31:10   I don't work in coffee shops with headphones on.

00:31:12   Like for me and my purposes,

00:31:14   the features of the AirPods are totally fine.

00:31:17   And because they fit well,

00:31:17   and I can ride my bike with them, I can run with them,

00:31:20   they really fit me.

00:31:21   And so I'm happy that they're gonna continue

00:31:24   to meet my needs.

00:31:25   And I'm not worried about Apple getting rid of them,

00:31:28   like the AirPods Pro taking over.

00:31:30   I think they will remain distinct products

00:31:32   for a long, long time.

00:31:33   Mm-hmm yeah I think so. Because there are people who want options and who want a

00:31:37   cheaper product right? The AirPods Pro are expensive. Also in follow-up I

00:31:42   mentioned last week that the wallet case that I'm using with my iPhone it's the

00:31:48   Bellroy wallet case was not working with NFC triggers and I was wrong it

00:31:57   appears that I ran into a bug with shortcuts and automation on my iPhone

00:32:02   the top section of the case right next to the camera where the NFC chip is

00:32:09   located on an iPhone. It does work. It scans NFC stickers and tags successfully

00:32:15   so the issues that I've had last week they were just random bugs in iOS 13.

00:32:23   Weird. Yeah I know. So the case because it's thinner at the top compared to the

00:32:30   bottom section where you stick in your credit cards, it does work just fine with NFC.

00:32:36   I've installed the, and I guess this is also follow up, we have the first beta of iOS 13.3

00:32:43   and iPadOS 13.3 and all the other, you know, watchOS, tvOS and all that. I've installed

00:32:48   it on my phone last night, then I put it on the iPad Pro. Of course it fixes more bugs

00:32:55   than 13.2 and automation has been fine so all the NFC triggers are working correctly for me.

00:33:02   And we're going to talk about the issues with Apple software later, but yeah, more bugs fixed

00:33:12   in 13.3, which is now in public beta too. It just came out a few minutes ago.

00:33:16   I'm off the beta train for a while. I generally do this. I'll run them during the summer at a

00:33:23   a certain point leading up to the releases.

00:33:27   And then I stayed on it through the 13.1 cycle,

00:33:31   but then I got off before 13.2.

00:33:34   So I'm back on the public release on everything.

00:33:37   And I'd imagine I'll stay there until sometime late

00:33:40   next summer with I was 14 getting into shape.

00:33:43   - That must feel nice.

00:33:45   - It's great.

00:33:46   So you have a tiny topic and it is ironic

00:33:50   because you made fun of me for thinking about Apple

00:33:53   incorporating Apple News into its audio products.

00:33:56   But your tiny topic is integrating Apple Music

00:33:59   and Apple TV more closely.

00:34:01   So why is this not a silly idea?

00:34:03   - Because mine makes more sense than yours.

00:34:05   (laughing)

00:34:07   - Ouch.

00:34:10   - So, no, I do think that,

00:34:13   actually, you know, the Apple News integration,

00:34:15   once you explain it, it does make some sense.

00:34:18   It just, you know, when you see the Apple News name

00:34:22   written down, it elicits that kind of response, I suppose.

00:34:27   Because it's Apple News.

00:34:28   It's not great.

00:34:29   Are you still paying?

00:34:30   Have you ever paid for Apple News Plus?

00:34:32   No.

00:34:33   OK.

00:34:33   Yeah, I canceled my subscription a few weeks ago.

00:34:37   I realized I was not reading magazines as much

00:34:39   as I thought I would.

00:34:41   Go figure.

00:34:43   So here's my thought.

00:34:44   So I was watching a bunch of shows on Apple TV Plus.

00:34:49   specifically for All Mankind, I watched the first episode and I realized that Apple was using a, you know, a

00:34:56   non-original soundtrack. They were using songs, actual songs from other artists in the show.

00:35:02   And so I thought, wouldn't it be nice if,

00:35:05   because Apple now owns both ends of the experience, they have a TV streaming service and they have a music streaming service,

00:35:13   wouldn't it be nice to have an integration between the two, where either during the episode

00:35:19   a banner pops up that shows you the song, or if you don't want to be distracted,

00:35:23   there could be a section within the TV app that tells you music from this episode.

00:35:30   And it's got a list of the songs that appear in the episode,

00:35:33   then you can open Apple Music to listen to them or add them to a playlist, whatever.

00:35:37   And I tweeted this and, of course, very helpfully a lot of people told me,

00:35:43   "Oh, but Apple Music already has playlists for the music of "For All Mankind" and "See"

00:35:48   and the morning show, which is exactly my point. I shouldn't have to know that these playlists

00:35:54   exist. Also, I'm talking about something else completely, which is show me just the songs from

00:36:01   this episode. I don't want a playlist containing all of the songs, I just want to know what the

00:36:06   songs in this very specific episode that I'm watching are. And I really think that it would

00:36:12   make sense to have this integration between the two services if you're subscribing to both of them,

00:36:18   of course. And, you know, maybe it could even be a Shazam feature because Apple also owns

00:36:24   Shazam at this point. I just think it would be useful so that I don't need to know beforehand

00:36:32   that I can find a playlist for the morning show and all those other TV shows in Apple Music. Just

00:36:38   show me inside the TV app what the songs are because you own the service, both of them, and

00:36:46   this integration should be possible.

00:36:48   It's, you know, I think it will make a lot of sense.

00:36:50   - I always forget Apple botched Shazam.

00:36:53   - Yeah, they did.

00:36:54   - And this would be super cool.

00:36:55   It reminded me of Amazon Prime Video.

00:36:57   If you watch that on the iPad,

00:36:59   or I think even the Apple TV,

00:37:01   you can pause it and get information about

00:37:04   who's in the scene, you know,

00:37:06   trivia about the show, that sort of thing.

00:37:08   And integrating music into that would be great,

00:37:12   especially on a show like "For All Mankind,"

00:37:15   which is a period piece, there's a lot of music in there

00:37:17   that you may want to check out

00:37:19   that you're maybe not instantly familiar with.

00:37:21   It seems like it's just like low hanging fruit

00:37:23   and maybe they'll end up doing that, you know,

00:37:25   as these services become more mature,

00:37:27   but it's still early days, but I do like the idea.

00:37:30   - Thank you.

00:37:31   - Yeah, that's good.

00:37:32   - I will send the letter to Tim Cook.

00:37:35   - Yes, please.

00:37:36   - And officially request it, yes.

00:37:37   - CC, ediQ on that, make sure it goes to the right place.

00:37:41   I have a quick question.

00:37:42   Does Google Docs include multi-window support?

00:37:45   - No. - No?

00:37:47   - No. - Does not.

00:37:48   How much are you using multi-windowed apps on your iPad?

00:37:52   - That's a good question.

00:37:53   I think I addressed this in my review in September.

00:37:59   Not as much as I thought,

00:38:02   but it's a feature that I'm glad it's there

00:38:05   for the few times that I need it.

00:38:07   I know that it's possible now.

00:38:10   I think my problem is that I've conditioned myself

00:38:14   to not think of multiple windows and iPad for 10 years.

00:38:19   And just the way that I work

00:38:23   and the way that I interact with apps

00:38:26   has been shaped by that limitation

00:38:30   of everything is a single window.

00:38:32   And I think it's taken a lot of time for me

00:38:34   to get used to the idea that everything

00:38:37   doesn't have to be a single window anymore.

00:38:40   You can open multiple windows if you want,

00:38:43   but I got 10 years of muscle memory and workflows

00:38:46   and just ways of getting work done

00:38:50   that I need to update and rethink.

00:38:53   So it's taken me a while.

00:38:55   I do appreciate the inclusion though.

00:38:57   Like a few weeks ago, I needed to work on

00:39:00   a multiple text, multiple markdown documents

00:39:04   at the same time.

00:39:06   And I was using IA Writer

00:39:07   and it supports multiple windows now.

00:39:09   And so I'm glad that I was able to do that.

00:39:11   You know, you long press on a document

00:39:13   and you open it in a new window.

00:39:15   Or I do things like multiple windows in mail, for example.

00:39:19   But it's not like I completely revamped

00:39:25   the way that I work on iPad Pro

00:39:28   because of multiple windows.

00:39:30   It's just, it's something that I use occasionally

00:39:34   when it could be useful.

00:39:36   Otherwise, the way that I work on iPad

00:39:38   is not that different from six months ago.

00:39:42   - That's exactly where I stand on it.

00:39:44   I've used it a handful of times, mostly with Safari,

00:39:49   but it's just, I just don't think about it,

00:39:53   I just don't think about it in those times

00:39:57   when I'm working on the iPad.

00:39:58   Now, I am using the ability to have

00:40:00   multiple apps in SlideOver.

00:40:02   I really like that.

00:40:04   Most of the time I have like Tweetbot and Slack

00:40:07   in SlideOver and I can switch between them

00:40:09   while I'm working on something else,

00:40:11   that has really changed how I work on the iPad.

00:40:14   But the multiple windows hasn't made a big impact.

00:40:17   - Yeah, totally agree.

00:40:18   The SlideOver thing is by far my most used,

00:40:23   that and column view in files.

00:40:27   Those two are the most used new features for me.

00:40:29   Well, I mean, of course, if you don't count shortcuts,

00:40:33   maybe you should count shortcuts as a feature,

00:40:35   But in terms of non-shortcuts things,

00:40:39   slide over and column view files.

00:40:42   Those two I use a lot.

00:40:43   So yeah, Google Docs though.

00:40:47   I guess if you wanna do multiple windows for Google Docs

00:40:50   and you have an iPad,

00:40:51   you can use multiple Safari windows

00:40:54   and access Google Docs from the browser,

00:40:56   which is not perfect, but it does a good enough job.

00:41:03   Some of the controls are kind of weird.

00:41:05   They don't necessarily work well in Safari for iPad,

00:41:09   but they do work.

00:41:10   You can have lists and do indentation and highlights

00:41:15   and that kind of stuff.

00:41:16   And I guess you could do that.

00:41:19   I've been doing that myself.

00:41:21   - Yeah, Docs is the primary thing I want it for,

00:41:24   and I haven't done a lot of it in Safari,

00:41:28   but you're right, the basics seem to work just fine.

00:41:30   I mean, for my needs, creating show outlines,

00:41:32   It's basically bulleted list and some formatting.

00:41:34   It's nothing real fancy, you know,

00:41:38   but some of my big spreadsheets I use,

00:41:40   I haven't tried and I'd be a little hesitant to,

00:41:43   but I don't, I'm not ever in a situation

00:41:45   where I need like a spreadsheet

00:41:46   that's in Google Sheets up with something else

00:41:48   because those spreadsheets usually are big

00:41:50   and I want the maximum screen real estate dedicated to them.

00:41:55   Well, that is follow up.

00:41:59   We're gonna get into some Adobe stuff.

00:42:02   Adobe had a big week, but let me tell you

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00:42:51   and you haven't tried FreshBooks yet, now is the time.

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00:42:57   for listeners of the show.

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00:43:00   all you have to do is go to freshbooks.com/connected

00:43:04   and enter the code connected

00:43:05   in the how did you hear about us section.

00:43:08   We thank FreshBooks for their support of the show

00:43:10   and Relay FM.

00:43:11   All right, Federico, tell me about fonts on iOS

00:43:15   through Adobe Creative Cloud.

00:43:17   - Sure, obviously Adobe had a bunch of announcements.

00:43:19   This week they had their Adobe Max conference.

00:43:22   And as part of that, they've also been releasing

00:43:26   a few updates to various apps that they offer.

00:43:29   And specifically on iOS, they updated their Creative Cloud

00:43:34   app to support one of the new features of iOS and iPadOS 13,

00:43:40   which is installing custom fonts natively on your device

00:43:46   without having to do the certificate-based workarounds

00:43:53   that used to be, in the past, the only way

00:43:55   to install custom fonts.

00:43:57   So with the new Creative Cloud app,

00:43:59   you can use it for free.

00:44:02   And if you use it for free, you have access to 1,300 fonts.

00:44:07   So that's a lot of fonts that are available for free.

00:44:10   And you can open the app, you go to the font section,

00:44:12   and you can browse the, you know, called Adobe Fonts,

00:44:15   and you can search, you can select them,

00:44:17   you can preview them,

00:44:20   you can install multiple fonts at once.

00:44:22   And the way that it works is,

00:44:25   This is called, for developers, a font provider app.

00:44:29   So Creative Cloud is using the new font provider APIs

00:44:33   to bring up a native dialogue in iOS 13 that asks you,

00:44:39   do you really want to install these fonts?

00:44:40   And you confirm the process, and later you

00:44:43   can find those fonts in Settings.

00:44:45   So if you open the Settings app and you go to General Fonts,

00:44:50   you will see a list of all the fonts that you have installed,

00:44:54   as well as information about the font and the individual typefaces contained within the font.

00:45:00   So you can see the font manufacturer and the copyright and the file size and all that kind of stuff.

00:45:05   It's really impressive, especially when you drill down into the typeface preview.

00:45:10   So if you have different styles, like thin or bold or heavy, you can preview them all,

00:45:15   you can preview the entire character set, you can preview the standard Lorem Ipsum text.

00:45:21   it's really well done, it's very nice and the main advantage is

00:45:25   you don't have to deal with third-party

00:45:30   hacks anymore. So it used to be that in previous years before iOS 13 you would have to use something like Anyfont

00:45:38   to load

00:45:41   custom font files on your

00:45:43   in the Anyfont app and

00:45:45   install a certificate

00:45:48   via settings that basically made the font available system-wide.

00:45:54   This is roughly the same idea in that you do install a font file and you make it available

00:45:59   system-wide, but it's not based on having to use a certificate for that, which has other

00:46:05   security implications and all of that.

00:46:07   This is all done natively, it's handled by the Settings app, and when the font is installed,

00:46:13   It's made available by all other iPhone and iPad apps that use the native font picker.

00:46:19   So there's a font picker API, which has also been improved in iOS 13, and all the fonts

00:46:24   that you install in this case using Adobe Creative Cloud, they will be available in

00:46:29   apps like Pages or Jafs.

00:46:33   Anything that uses the native font picker gets access to fonts that you've installed

00:46:38   this way.

00:46:39   In addition to the 1300 fonts that you get for free, if you are a Creative Cloud subscriber,

00:46:46   you can use Typekit fonts with the Creative Cloud app for a total, once you combine those

00:46:53   two sources together, 17,000 fonts.

00:46:59   Now I don't know who would ever need to use 17,000.

00:47:05   Again, that's a thousand fonts.

00:47:08   you, I don't know, I mean, I'm sure there's someone who needs to use 17. Anyway, the point

00:47:15   is it's remarkable that you can install all these fonts via Creative Cloud. iOS doesn't

00:47:24   have the equivalent of, what's it called on the Mac, FontBook. Like a dedicated app for

00:47:32   managing installed fonts and previewing them and doing different tests with them. But it's

00:47:37   good enough, it's a good enough approximation of that in settings. You can remove fonts

00:47:43   at any time and of course when you, you know, due to the way that it's designed, fonts are

00:47:50   basically an extension of the app. So if you install a font and then you delete the app

00:47:56   that offers, that provides the font, the font is also gone. So if you install a font and

00:48:01   then delete Creative Cloud, you will no longer get access to those fonts. So just keep that

00:48:06   in mind, maybe stash Creative Cloud in a folder and forever leave it there. This is nice.

00:48:12   I was wondering what happened to font provider apps that Apple shut off at WWDC. This is

00:48:19   a great first example of that API. It's really impressive when you consider how these fonts,

00:48:26   you can now use them in Photoshop, also by Adobe. You can use them in any other app.

00:48:31   And this is a big deal for anybody who does, oh man, what's it called, like when you do

00:48:41   putting together magazines.

00:48:43   Like there's a word for that.

00:48:45   Like graphic design?

00:48:46   No, there's a different word.

00:48:48   There's a different word for that.

00:48:49   I don't know.

00:48:50   Layout work?

00:48:51   I don't know what you want.

00:48:52   Yeah, anyway, if you do things that require fonts and custom layouts, this is a big deal

00:48:59   because you can now do it on the iPad.

00:49:01   And so the fact that these funds show up system-wide in all apps that, yeah, page layout is probably

00:49:08   what I'm thinking of.

00:49:11   I think it's very nice.

00:49:12   I think it's a very nice feature.

00:49:14   It's done in an Apple way in terms of like security permissions and the fact that these

00:49:19   funds are basically extensions of their host apps.

00:49:24   I think it's very good.

00:49:25   Yeah, I mean, I downloaded it and played with it.

00:49:28   It blew my mind that Adobe doesn't support password managers for login.

00:49:33   So you just get a text field.

00:49:35   Come on.

00:49:37   You made an app that can install fonts.

00:49:39   You should be able to open one password for me.

00:49:42   But it's very similar to what you get on the Mac.

00:49:44   You can get links to all the apps and you have a bunch of tutorials and of course you

00:49:51   have your fonts but also your files.

00:49:54   So if you have a Creative Cloud account or subscription, you can keep like PSDs or Illustrator

00:50:00   like in Adobe's cloud and they're on your computers, all that's accessible on the iPad

00:50:05   as well.

00:50:06   It really ties iOS and the Mac a lot closer together.

00:50:12   And you know, what is cool about this is that Adobe, and we're gonna talk about about Photoshop

00:50:18   in a second.

00:50:19   They are sometimes pretty late to the game and there are sometimes coming in a little

00:50:25   week with their initial offering, but it's clear to me that they do think about iOS and

00:50:31   iPadOS as real platforms for people to create things on and that's cool, right?

00:50:36   Like it is cool that the iPad and the iPhone have access to these tools now and I think

00:50:41   Adobe is leaning into them harder than ever.

00:50:44   I'm still thinking about this, I'm sorry.

00:50:46   What's the name of the app that was on the Mac that allowed you to do page layouts?

00:50:53   QuarkXPress.

00:50:54   Quark, okay.

00:50:56   InDesign is Adobe's app.

00:50:58   Okay.

00:50:59   There was PageMaker back in the day.

00:51:05   All those sorts of apps.

00:51:06   I'm trying to see if desktop publishing, that's also probably a word that I was thinking of.

00:51:13   Microsoft Publisher.

00:51:14   There's all sorts of them.

00:51:16   Yeah, you know, they should--

00:51:17   I'm still waiting for--

00:51:19   again, probably never going to happen, honestly.

00:51:22   I really want to have something like iBooks Author on iPad,

00:51:26   especially now that we have custom fonts,

00:51:29   and we can do multiple windows, and there's files.

00:51:32   You can import assets from files from external drives.

00:51:35   You can do column viewing files.

00:51:38   I know that you can put together ebooks in pages,

00:51:43   But it's not like working with iBooks Author.

00:51:47   I worked with iBooks Author six years ago at this point

00:51:51   when I converted one of my stories,

00:51:54   the editorial review, to an iBook.

00:51:58   Used to be called iBooks, e-book,

00:52:01   built with iBooks Author.

00:52:03   And so to do all those fancy animations

00:52:05   and the interactive galleries and all of that,

00:52:08   I feel like I, it would be great to have

00:52:12   something like that again on iPad Pro,

00:52:15   especially now that you have the pencil

00:52:16   and all these new integrations and features

00:52:18   that have come out since 2013.

00:52:21   But then again, probably never gonna happen.

00:52:25   Because Apple updates pages a few times a year,

00:52:30   I struggle to imagine they wanna do a separate,

00:52:33   it's not even called iBooks anymore, so BookSolver.

00:52:38   I don't think it's happening, but it would be nice.

00:52:40   - Yeah, that app has not received

00:52:42   a lot of attention from Apple.

00:52:43   They've had a couple of updates to it,

00:52:44   but I've done projects in it too,

00:52:46   and it is pretty buggy and a big,

00:52:50   it's very resource intensive on the Mac,

00:52:52   like trying to create complex layouts.

00:52:55   Any Mac out of the sun will grind to a halt.

00:52:58   I think they oughta just roll that stuff into pages

00:53:01   and make iBooks author files a target,

00:53:04   and if you just wanna do EPUB, that's fine,

00:53:06   but if you wanna do more, you can,

00:53:08   'cause that app is just going nowhere fast.

00:53:10   And the other hope I guess would be to wait for the folks at Affinity. You know they're

00:53:15   working on an Affinity publisher but it's desktop only so maybe in the future something

00:53:21   like that will come out for iPad. I know they're working, you know, they have Affinity Photo

00:53:27   which is both on Mac and iPad. They have the Illustrator version, what's it called? Affinity

00:53:35   else. Affinity Designer, maybe? Affinity Designer is their vector drawing app, and they also

00:53:42   have Affinity Publisher. I would love to see Affinity Publisher on iPad eventually.

00:53:45   Adobe also has shipped Photoshop for iPad, which we saw shown off, was that a year ago?

00:53:52   Yes, it was a year ago. I'm pretty sure that I was at the Apple event for the new iPad

00:54:00   Pro and Adobe was on stage showing off IP. Yeah, they were. They had the demo with the

00:54:07   crazy PSD weighing like multiple gigabytes and they were showing how the new iPad Pro was

00:54:13   scrolling multiple zoom levels in that PSD. Yeah, that was a year ago. And now the app is out on the

00:54:20   App Store. And it's not what people were expecting. There's been a sort of a mild controversy on

00:54:28   Twitter this week about how Photoshop on iPad is the first version of a long journey that

00:54:36   Adobe would like to be the real Photoshop for iPad in the end, but right now it's not.

00:54:45   And let me contextualize, it is the real Photoshop in the sense that this is not like a spinoff

00:54:50   of Photoshop, you know, we've had something like Photoshop Express on iOS before. This

00:54:56   This is THE Photoshop. It uses the same foundation and engine as desktop Photoshop. You can open

00:55:03   all of your cloud PSDs, which is this new format that Adobe has been using for the past

00:55:09   couple of years with Creative Cloud. All of your desktop PSDs will open on iPad with Photoshop.

00:55:16   The problem is, this is a huge project for Adobe, you know, to unify their engines and

00:55:26   their UI stack between the desktop and iPad.

00:55:31   And right now the issue is the iPad version doesn't have all the features that you have

00:55:37   on the desktop version of Photoshop.

00:55:41   I think Adobe explained this saying that right now the iPad version of Photoshop is focused

00:55:50   on compositing, masking and basic retouching.

00:55:56   Meaning that a lot of the advanced controls that, and I'm not a Photoshop user so it's

00:56:02   very likely that I'm getting my terminology wrong or I don't know the terminology at all.

00:56:06   But a lot of features that you have in Photoshop for desktop you don't have here, like canvas

00:56:12   rotation for example, "Still not here, supposedly coming soon."

00:56:16   Or subject selection, refining the edge refinement, all that stuff.

00:56:22   It's not on iPad.

00:56:24   But it's coming later.

00:56:26   And so far, this version of Photoshop is sort of stuck between this sort of being a companion

00:56:35   to Photoshop for desktop, but also wanting to be more. This Photoshop doesn't want to

00:56:41   be a companion forever. Adobe's goal, in their own words, is to actually have it be the real

00:56:48   Photoshop on iPad. They just need more time. The full Photoshop, if you will. Not real,

00:56:53   the full Photoshop. Right now, it's still a pretty impressive pro app for iPad. All

00:57:01   your PSDs will open. There's support for split view and slide over and keyboard shortcuts

00:57:08   but not multiple windows on iPad. It can export files as PNG, JPEG, PSD, TIFF. It does not

00:57:17   support RAW photos. So you cannot edit your RAW photos in Photoshop. So there's a bunch

00:57:22   of limitations like that. A lot of people were upset by this because we were all under

00:57:28   the impression following rumors and interviews that Adobe did over the past year and their

00:57:36   own presence on stage at the Apple event last year, we all thought that, oh yes, they're

00:57:42   going to bring the full Photoshop and iPad when it launches eventually.

00:57:46   And then we started getting the idea that this was not going to happen when Adobe opened

00:57:52   up the test flight beta a bit more to other users over the past few months, and users

00:57:57   started saying, "Look, this is not the full Photoshop. It's missing a bunch of features."

00:58:03   And it's been a year, so I feel like Adobe felt the need to at least launch this first

00:58:07   version on the App Store, especially to coincide with their own Adobe Max conference. I don't

00:58:15   have an opinion on this in the sense that I don't use Photoshop. I understand why people

00:58:22   are upset. I also understand how Photoshop is an application that's been around for 30

00:58:30   years, I want to say?

00:58:32   >> Yeah, forever.

00:58:33   >> I can only imagine how massive of an effort it must be to steer this ship in a completely

00:58:42   different direction. Like, to take this code base and modernize it for all kinds of computers

00:58:50   and form factors and to have the cloud integration in the middle. Like, I get it. I mean, it

00:58:56   takes time for simpler apps to reach feature parity between Mac and iPad. Imagine Photoshop.

00:59:07   And I'm just glad that they're actually committed to this. You know, I don't think this is the

00:59:12   kind of project that Adobe will just say, "Yeah, we're going to try and see what it's

00:59:19   like and then they will eventually abandon it. No, this is the full, the real Photoshop,

00:59:23   the full Photoshop. It ties into your Creative Cloud subscription. They have provided a roadmap

00:59:29   for features that will be coming next. And, you know, Adobe's goal is, you know, John

00:59:34   Gruber wrote about this a few weeks ago. They are, you know, it's a massive undertaking

00:59:40   that consists of unifying the Photoshop UI and engine across all platforms to have one

00:59:49   Photoshop that works everywhere. So that's not what it is today, but I'm very confident

00:59:55   that it'll be in the future. And I think that's very important for the iPad Pro as a platform.

01:00:01   It's such an obvious device for this sort of work, especially when you think about the

01:00:06   Apple Pencil and what it can do and Adobe is not the first to this. I mean we

01:00:10   rallied off a bunch of third-party apps that compete in the space and who all do

01:00:15   a really good job but the truth is most people just want to use the Adobe

01:00:19   products they're already used to. They don't want to switch to Affinity or

01:00:23   switch to you know Pixelmator Pro or something like that when they've been

01:00:27   using Adobe for 20 years in their job and as the iPad becomes more powerful

01:00:33   and a more likely laptop replacement

01:00:36   for more and more people, they've just gotta be there.

01:00:39   And I think you're right, they're in this for the long haul,

01:00:42   and I can't imagine the work that it must take,

01:00:45   but it's work that I think is good and beneficial

01:00:49   for their users and for Adobe,

01:00:51   'cause they don't wanna be stuck on the traditional PC

01:00:54   as it gives way to devices like the iPad and the Surface

01:00:58   and things like that.

01:01:01   - Yeah, and this is a real time follow-up.

01:01:06   I was told on Twitter that Affinity have said

01:01:09   that publisher is coming to iPad next year, so 2020.

01:01:13   2020 should be fun for,

01:01:15   I have a feeling that 2020 is gonna be fun

01:01:17   for iPad Pro software.

01:01:18   And that's because in addition to this announcement

01:01:22   and Adobe being committed to Photoshop,

01:01:26   by next year, a lot of developers, a lot of companies

01:01:29   will have had a lot of time with iPadOS.

01:01:33   And the new Files app and the new APIs.

01:01:35   And there's probably gonna be new iPad Pro hardware.

01:01:39   So that's exciting.

01:01:40   I think it's gonna be,

01:01:41   I have a feeling it's gonna be a pretty good iPad year, 2020.

01:01:44   You know, new decade and all that.

01:01:46   The iPad is gonna be 10 next year, by the way.

01:01:49   - Whoa.

01:01:50   - Yep, January 27, 2010.

01:01:53   That's 10 years of iPad.

01:01:56   - Mm-hmm, that's wild.

01:01:58   feels like yesterday what happened yeah I don't know yeah Adobe has also shown

01:02:02   off illustrator it's gonna come to the iPad speaking of speaking of 2020 the

01:02:08   the verge has a nice article walking through a bunch of the features and I

01:02:13   think illustrator is a really good example of an app that it's probably

01:02:16   gonna it has a potential to be better on the iPad than on the desktop because of

01:02:20   the pencil in particular you know where you're doing really fine drawing work as

01:02:26   A lot of people use things like Wacom tablets

01:02:30   on the Mac or the PC or other sort of stylus inputs.

01:02:35   And to have that just natively on the iPad is a big deal.

01:02:37   And so I'm looking forward to Illustrator.

01:02:39   I don't use Illustrator much, but I

01:02:41   would imagine that people who do, this could be a big deal.

01:02:44   Yeah.

01:02:45   The Verge has a few screenshots and GIFs showing Illustrator

01:02:50   on iPad in action.

01:02:51   It looks good.

01:02:52   There's a lot of controls, a lot of floating palettes,

01:02:56   advanced controls, which I always like to see.

01:02:58   Looks like a desktop app being ported to the iPad

01:03:02   and supporting the pencil and touch.

01:03:04   Great, yeah, this is great.

01:03:06   Yeah, this is exactly what we need on iPad Pro.

01:03:09   So also 2020, so very nice.

01:03:13   - Coming, and I think these apps benefit from the iPad Pro

01:03:17   being the 11 inch or the 12.9.

01:03:20   But remember, the iPad Air, the iPad,

01:03:22   even the iPad Mini has pencil support now.

01:03:25   So you could run these on those devices as well.

01:03:28   I think when we say iPad Pro,

01:03:30   we think about that as sort of the most powerful versions

01:03:35   of these things, but these will run

01:03:36   on the regular iPads as well.

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01:04:56   So 2019, I think in hindsight, will be a year where we think a lot about Apple's software

01:05:02   quality.

01:05:03   I thought you were going to go with the year of Steven again.

01:05:07   It is also the year of Steven, but it's also the year of software quality issues at Apple.

01:05:11   How fitting for the year of Steven.

01:05:17   My next rookie.

01:05:18   I predict bugs in Apple's next software release.

01:05:21   And I wanted to take a little time

01:05:23   and talk about that with you,

01:05:24   because we're sort of done with the release cycle,

01:05:27   right, like you said, there's new betas for 13.3

01:05:30   and watchOS 6.2 and whatever else.

01:05:33   So we're kind of out of the phase

01:05:35   of these being new releases.

01:05:37   Things are beginning to settle down.

01:05:39   I wanted to ask you a few questions about this.

01:05:41   I guess I wanna start with,

01:05:43   has this year really been worse than previous years?

01:05:47   It's always easy to think about the past

01:05:49   with rose colored glasses, but you're in this stuff

01:05:52   every day a lot more than most people.

01:05:54   You write these reviews, you review apps,

01:05:56   you spend time with these products.

01:05:59   Do you think 2019 is worse than previous years?

01:06:04   - That's a tough question because everyone's experience

01:06:08   is different, and that's because everyone is using

01:06:11   different hardware with different setups

01:06:12   and different apps personally.

01:06:15   So that's all that I can offer, my personal context.

01:06:18   I don't think it's been as bad as, say, 2013 or 2014 with iOS 7 and iOS 8, or even iOS 11 in 2017.

01:06:29   I think those years have been worse, specifically as far as iOS, so iPhone and iPad are concerned.

01:06:38   I think 2019, the problem is...

01:06:42   I see two main problems.

01:06:45   First, we come from the year of iOS 12, so 2018, which has been a pretty good year in

01:06:54   terms of software stability on iOS. Apple very publicly said in iOS 12 we're going to

01:07:02   focus on performance and stability and getting rid of bugs and, you know, polishing the whole

01:07:08   thing. They postponed, they didn't officially confirm this, but we know that they postponed

01:07:14   certain features for 2019 because they wanted to focus on improving the system last year.

01:07:22   So coming from that, we're now met with all these problems and it does affect our perspective

01:07:34   because we thought that Apollo had gotten better, but it turns out that improving software

01:07:40   is not forever. It doesn't necessarily mean that you did it once, well then you're set.

01:07:46   It means that it's a continuous effort. You gotta, it's like a garden. You gotta take

01:07:53   care of the garden every year, in this case, every month. It's not like because Apple fixed

01:07:59   a bunch of bugs in iOS 12, then they're good. It means that they were good last year, and

01:08:04   this year you add features, well, you add more bugs. And that's the second problem.

01:08:09   The second problem I see is that, coming from iOS 12, Apple maybe felt some kind of pressure

01:08:18   to overcompensate for all the functionalities that they didn't ship last year.

01:08:24   Combine that with the fact that the Apple ecosystem is now bigger than ever.

01:08:30   You have the iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, Mac, ARKit, CarPlay, HomePod, AirPods, and Apple

01:08:39   TV.

01:08:41   All those products, if you combine that with the need to overcompensate for 2018, the whole

01:08:49   situation is basically compounded and you have more features on all kinds of platforms

01:08:56   and you introduce bugs.

01:08:58   Right?

01:08:59   And if you, and I'm guessing that this is really challenging for me to talk about because

01:09:05   I've never worked in a company, right? And this is where Michael would be useful to have

01:09:14   in this discussion. He's worked at a company, he has experience with dealing with managers

01:09:19   and multiple levels and layers of management, what it's like to handle communications in

01:09:24   that kind of cooperation. I don't have that kind of context. I don't have that kind of

01:09:29   experience. But I want to say that there must have been, based on some conversations that

01:09:36   I had months ago, you know, you have a feature that's ready to ship. You cannot hold it any

01:09:43   longer. You just, you know, features that have been ready for two years, it's time to

01:09:47   release them. And so if anything, I feel like the main problem this year has been finding

01:09:55   this balance between... we have all these platforms that we gotta take care of, but

01:10:01   we also have these internal and external pressures from the press, from users, to release new

01:10:08   features, to send a message, or because it's features that people actually need. And it's

01:10:14   hard to balance that. It's been hard for Apple to balance that, to have the same attention

01:10:19   to focus and stability that they had last year with releasing new features and new functionalities

01:10:26   at the same time for seven, eight platforms. It's crazy. And so, and in addition to that,

01:10:33   I also want to add that we've seen historically and even just last month, how Apple is still

01:10:42   the company that when new hardware needs to ship, the software needs to be ready in whatever

01:10:50   state it is. You know, the iPhone 11 and 11 Pro launched with 13 and 13.1 was ready to

01:10:58   go a few days later. So it's a bunch of different issues. I don't think there's a single answer.

01:11:06   believe anybody who has a single answer for this kind of stuff. It's never... I wish it

01:11:12   were that easy to have a single answer like "it happened because X or Y". It's not like

01:11:18   that. I think it's a combination of factors, maybe some of them, some of the ones that

01:11:24   I just mentioned, but my wish... and I think Rene Ritchie did a video on this a few weeks

01:11:31   ago and I think he also mentioned this Steven, the idea even though I wouldn't like it right

01:11:37   because my work depends on, well not depends, but I take advantage of these big software

01:11:49   releases right with my reviews but I think Apple should consider having and publicly

01:11:55   state that they are going to have a more staggered release of their software updates going forward.

01:12:05   To not do these big all-at-once software updates that, you know, on Tuesday you have six different

01:12:15   OSs dropping all at the same time. Because, you know, you're just begging for issues and

01:12:21   problems to come up at that point. So I know that it's a beautiful thing to have these

01:12:27   events, right? New version of iOS with 200 new features. But I do wonder if Apple, at

01:12:35   their current scale and at their current exposure to the press and to millions of users, and

01:12:42   with all these platforms and services and devices that they have, I wonder and I ask,

01:12:47   Can they do that anymore?

01:12:51   It feels like you reach a certain point, such a massive company, such a massive line of

01:12:57   products, you cannot do the big event with a massive software release all at once.

01:13:06   And you gotta find a better balance between promising features coming in a new version

01:13:12   of the OS in September and trying to be a little more realistic and saying well maybe

01:13:16   actually this is more of a roadmap and this feature is coming in April or March.

01:13:21   You know.

01:13:22   I mean that big release cycle is really an echo of the 90s or even you know the late

01:13:30   80s where you had these big software releases and they had to be big because you needed

01:13:36   people to buy them because they had to get them on disks in stores.

01:13:40   Right.

01:13:41   about on the the Mac OS side for a second, you know, going from 10.2 to 10.3, you had

01:13:48   to go buy DVD and it was a big deal, right? And, and now it's annual and they're smaller

01:13:53   until they're not like Catalina and people get mad that all their apps broke, because

01:13:57   they've been conditioned into thinking they're smaller releases. And I think it is time for

01:14:02   Apple to consider if that's necessary or not. Because a it's a historic thing. And maybe

01:14:10   they're just doing because they've always done it. But another factor is the competitive landscape

01:14:15   has changed and Android is still on a annual release cycle roughly, but at least the last

01:14:23   several versions have been smaller and smaller as Google does more through Google Play services.

01:14:29   So they're not updating Gmail as part of the next version of Android, they're updating Gmail when

01:14:33   Gmail is ready and they push an update to the Gmail app whenever it's good to go. They've

01:14:39   they've decoupled features from the OS.

01:14:42   And Apple could certainly do that.

01:14:43   Like why do we have to wait for a major release

01:14:46   for a new mail feature?

01:14:47   Well, that's a bad example

01:14:48   'cause Apple never adds features to mail,

01:14:50   but Safari, something they care about.

01:14:53   - No, but that's a very good point.

01:14:54   And I think we're starting to see hints of that.

01:14:58   If you look at Apple Music, right,

01:14:59   if you look at the Music app,

01:15:02   aside from the time-synced lyrics

01:15:05   and the context menus in iOS 13,

01:15:08   It is essentially unchanged as a native client from last year. But it is completely different

01:15:16   from last year. And how is that possible? Well, that's because over the past 12 months,

01:15:22   Apple has added new sections, new playlists to Apple Music as a service. And because they

01:15:29   added as a service, the app is different. You see new content, you see new sections,

01:15:34   see new initiatives. Even though the app didn't get an update, like the binary, you know,

01:15:41   the app itself is mostly the same. The experience of using Apple Music is radically different

01:15:47   from 12 months ago or 18 months ago. And that is exactly what you're seeing. Like they're

01:15:53   rolling out updates to the service. And I think as Apple gets more and more in the services

01:16:01   game like with Apple Music and TV Plus and, you know, news, and I wonder if they should

01:16:08   do this more and more. I mean, even iCloud Drive, why do I need to keep waiting for files

01:16:15   to get an update if I want to get new iCloud Drive features? So that idea of Apple moving

01:16:22   to becoming a services company also means that a service should be something that is

01:16:28   continually offered to users and continually improved for users. And so what I've seen

01:16:34   with Apple Music, I agree with you. I would like to start seeing with other apps as well.

01:16:40   So I don't know.

01:16:42   And Apple doesn't have to be as competitive with Windows and Android as it once did, right?

01:16:50   Like if Android is not getting these big updates every year, Apple doesn't have to play defense

01:16:56   is hard. You know, in iOS, two, three, four, five, and six, seven, those early days, that

01:17:01   was true, because Android was getting much better at a pretty fast pace, and they had

01:17:08   to keep up. But the reality is that all of these OSes, mobile or desktop, all have basically

01:17:13   the same features at this point. They're all feature complete, right? Like, there are things,

01:17:18   of course, we want added to iOS and Mac OS, but we're well past the days of it doesn't

01:17:23   and have cut, copy, and paste, right?

01:17:25   They are mature platforms now, and as platforms mature,

01:17:29   you can slow down on the release cycle

01:17:34   if it means that you're willing to trade a little time

01:17:38   for things like stability.

01:17:40   And Apple, they did that last year,

01:17:42   but it was still an annual release,

01:17:43   and so I think you're right when you say

01:17:45   this year's a little bit of a knee-jerk reaction

01:17:47   of oh, we gotta add all this stuff back in

01:17:49   'cause last year was quiet.

01:17:51   I think the reality is most people who buy a new iPhone

01:17:54   or hit update once a year or whenever it comes out,

01:17:58   they're not counting those features, right?

01:18:00   They're not talking to their friends about,

01:18:03   oh my gosh, iOS 12 is so quiet.

01:18:04   Look, iOS 13 is quiet too.

01:18:06   What's going on in Cupertino, right?

01:18:07   That's our world.

01:18:09   But that's not, the bulk of those billion active devices

01:18:13   Apple has, those people don't think that way.

01:18:18   But they do notice when things are buggy.

01:18:21   They do notice that when you're in iMessage,

01:18:22   the keyboard goes away.

01:18:24   Or when you open the shortcuts app,

01:18:26   all your shortcuts are gone,

01:18:27   or your battery life is really bad.

01:18:29   They do notice the downside.

01:18:31   And I think Apple needs to be willing to sacrifice

01:18:36   a little bit of praise from the people who want new features

01:18:40   in a trade with the stability and the security

01:18:45   that people want and demand every day,

01:18:48   that everyday people demand.

01:18:49   And I, I think I was 13 could be that tipping point.

01:18:53   I don't know what I'm a little afraid of is that I was 14 will be like,

01:18:58   I was 12 that they're going to pull back on features and they're going to fix

01:19:02   the things and make it more stable.

01:19:03   But then I was 15 and two years will be like this year.

01:19:07   And they're on this like weird pendulum swinging back and forth.

01:19:10   And that's not good for anybody.

01:19:12   It's not good for users.

01:19:14   It's not good for those, those of us in the press.

01:19:17   And it's not good for the developers and designers

01:19:19   at Apple working on this stuff, right?

01:19:21   I think about those people who,

01:19:24   and don't get me wrong, I don't ever temper my thoughts

01:19:27   on Apple software or hardware,

01:19:28   considering the feelings of people who work on it.

01:19:31   That's not my job.

01:19:32   My job is talking about products.

01:19:34   But in an environment where you are rushing around,

01:19:39   fixing a bunch of bugs for three months,

01:19:40   and then you have to move on to the next new feature,

01:19:42   leaving bugs open and undone,

01:19:45   That's not a sustainable way to run a software organization either, I don't think.

01:19:49   Right? People are going to get burned out and frustrated at their jobs and they

01:19:52   can't do a job well done.

01:19:55   And Apple should be concerned about that too.

01:19:57   Is that fair?

01:19:59   Yeah, I think so. I think it is fair.

01:20:02   I do want to address this idea that I've seen mentioned by a few people on Twitter

01:20:08   lately that Apple should fire Greg Federighi or that Greg Federighi should be held

01:20:13   responsible for these issues.

01:20:15   And, first of all, I think there's this sort of strange obsession that some people have,

01:20:22   you know, this idea of the sort of the cinematic firing of somebody, you know, trying to find

01:20:30   a single responsible individual for software issues. You know, yes, we found the person

01:20:37   and we fired the person. And, you know, just because you fired somebody doesn't mean that

01:20:42   the problems are gone or that a solution has been achieved. And like all the, you know,

01:20:52   we could talk about how in conversations that we had, usually at WWDC, Craig Federighi seems

01:21:01   to be a pretty well respected and beloved individual at Apple. And, you know, we could

01:21:07   talk about how most engineers speak in high praise of Federighi because he's actually

01:21:16   an engineer.

01:21:17   Yeah, he's one of them. He came up through the organization, right? He is one of them.

01:21:22   Yeah, exactly. So it's one of the, you know, every time that I, you know, talk to somebody

01:21:28   who works at Apple and the topic of, you know, what's it like working with Craig comes up.

01:21:36   I always get the sense that, you know, that Kurt Federighi fundamentally understands the

01:21:42   issues with a specific feature or a project because it gets down to, you know, to the

01:21:48   nitty gritty of an issue. Like, he understands code. He understands what it's like to build

01:21:53   software, which is not something that you could say for all managers, you know, not

01:21:58   to name any names, but I think it's very easy to get an idea of which executives at Apple

01:22:02   understand code and, well, you know, the ones that do not. But I guess the main idea of

01:22:10   firing the manager and expecting the problem to be fixed, there are situations where you

01:22:17   do need to replace an executive. I'm sure, you know, that's the case, has been the case

01:22:25   and will be the case at Apple. I don't think in this specific instance of Apple having

01:22:34   a software quality ongoing problem, I don't think it would be the solution to... Yes,

01:22:45   Craig should be held responsible because he's the executive in charge of all things software.

01:22:52   For all the issues that we've seen, I think we should also remember, and I mean, no way,

01:22:58   no, I, I, it's really, it's really challenging to have this discussion without being accused of

01:23:07   being an apologist. So I'm just going for it, whatever. I don't care. I know that, you know,

01:23:12   my perspective is what it is, but I think for all the bugs and issues that we've seen,

01:23:19   I think we should give credit where it's due. I think it's pretty remarkable that Apple can manage

01:23:26   all of these devices in a single ecosystem with the kind of integration that they have.

01:23:30   I don't... and I think we should, you know, among many other people, the executive currently in

01:23:40   charge of Apple software, we should give credit to that, that you can use an assistant on your watch

01:23:48   or on a TV or on a smart speaker, yes it's not perfect, I don't think it's as catastrophic

01:23:57   as some people make it out to be. That's my perspective, I may be wrong, you're free to

01:24:02   say that I'm an apologist, I don't care, but I think these discussions, when I see them on

01:24:09   Twitter, in the past I used to interact and engage with those, these days I just pass by.

01:24:17   But I don't think taking things to the extreme is necessarily useful to this conversation.

01:24:24   And that also goes the other way around. I don't think apologizing for everything that Apple does

01:24:29   is any good, honestly. I think the truth is complicated. It's this middle ground of

01:24:40   thousands of shades of gray. And unless you work at Apple, you probably don't have a good sense

01:24:46   of what, you know, what is even, you know, the truth of the, of this conversation. Nobody

01:24:52   knows. But, um, I think these extremes of Craig, Frederick, you should be fired or,

01:25:00   you know, Apple is perfect. They essentially moot points that contribute nothing to the

01:25:07   conversation except for the biases of the people who bring up these arguments. Um, so

01:25:15   I disagree with the notion of "let's fire Craig Federighi and see what happens" because

01:25:19   it's just the equivalent of throwing executive spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks.

01:25:25   Yes, let's replace the guy in charge.

01:25:27   Maybe things will get better.

01:25:28   No, turns out they will not get better because now you gotta train all your engineers to

01:25:33   report to a different person who has a different management style.

01:25:36   You know, we'll never get to the bottom of this.

01:25:39   And if he is as popular as he seems on the inside, getting rid of him isn't going to

01:25:45   to do anything for morale.

01:25:46   - Yeah, because in all of this--

01:25:48   - You're gonna have people upset.

01:25:49   - Exactly, in all of this, you also gotta remember,

01:25:51   these are people writing code and reporting to their boss.

01:25:55   They're not like algorithms spitting out code

01:25:58   on a daily basis.

01:26:00   There are people that have relationship with their manager

01:26:02   and the manager reports to Craig, and it's complicated, man.

01:26:07   It's not, don't never believe the hot takes on Twitter.

01:26:13   That's my conclusion.

01:26:14   They're never accurate, they're never true, and they're useless.

01:26:19   So there's that.

01:26:20   It's good life advice.

01:26:21   If Apple were to move to this cycle that looked like, you know, WWDC is really a roadmap for

01:26:28   the upcoming year, like RenĂ© pitches in that video, how do they get there?

01:26:33   What does that actually look like?

01:26:35   It comes with a clear roadmap at WWDC.

01:26:42   It entails more timely documentation for developers who are building features for these multiple

01:26:53   platforms. I think it is absurd to be in a situation like we've been this summer with

01:27:01   multiple APIs for iOS 13 and iPadOS 13 or shortcuts without any documentation until

01:27:10   September. I think that's just not ideal, right? It's not a situation you want to put

01:27:19   developers in. But yeah, there should be a roadmap. And I know that Apple is maybe institutionally

01:27:28   against the idea of a clear roadmap, but I also think that it's time for a change. Like,

01:27:35   you cannot possibly expect to keep doing this forever, this big September release. And then

01:27:41   you announce something and journalists talk about it, like, I don't know, iCloud folder

01:27:47   sharing or shortcuts on the watch or the HomePod multi-user support, whatever. And then later

01:27:54   you gotta backtrack and say, "Oh no, this is coming in the spring." Find a balance in

01:28:02   the features that you want to prioritize and provide developers, even with a rough roadmap.

01:28:07   This is coming in September, this is coming later in the fall, this is coming next year

01:28:13   in the spring. Even just that would help. And have more timely documentation with more

01:28:20   examples. We could talk about improving the whole Apple bug reporter system, but that's

01:28:29   another, like we don't have any, another two hours to talk about that. But I think the

01:28:35   primary idea would be, it's got to be a roadmap. It doesn't, as much as Apple appreciates its

01:28:44   culture of secrecy, it's got to be the opposite of secrecy. It has to be a roadmap. It has

01:28:51   to be a series of steps for developers to know when can I build a feature that takes

01:28:57   advantage of this API. When should I expect this functionality to become possible for

01:29:03   me? Because otherwise you're leaving developers hanging for the whole summer in hope that,

01:29:09   you know, yeah, maybe this feature is coming. Maybe not. I don't know. That cannot, you

01:29:16   know, that's not sustainable and it's not a healthy environment for developer community,

01:29:21   I think.

01:29:22   Agreed. Well, we'll see what happens. I hope that Apple is using this cycle to really consider

01:29:30   what it should do in the future. Because even if it may not be the worst cycle ever,

01:29:37   it seems like it is the loudest cycle in terms of bugs. And in a way that's more important, right?

01:29:45   If more people are noticing and complaining, even if technically there are fewer crashes across

01:29:51   the systems, you know, and Apple can look at all that.

01:29:54   The feelings in the community are so strong this year

01:29:58   that may override any hard empirical data.

01:30:01   All right, we are going to talk a little bit

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01:31:52   So I want to talk about Apple TV Plus, the content, but before we get there, I want to

01:31:56   talk about Apple TV, the app, like the service level.

01:32:02   We've heard a bunch from listeners about hiccup streaming for Myke.

01:32:07   Apple TV said that he couldn't watch anything in his country, even though Apple TV Plus

01:32:11   is available in the UK.

01:32:14   I've had issues where pausing something on the Apple TV

01:32:17   streaming from TV Plus will kick me out to the home screen.

01:32:20   Like it won't remember where I paused it.

01:32:23   Have you had any issues like this?

01:32:25   - Fortunately, nope.

01:32:27   Nope.

01:32:28   - Nice.

01:32:29   - Yeah, I'm one of the lucky ones, I guess.

01:32:32   - Are you watching on an Apple TV hardware unit?

01:32:35   - Yes.

01:32:36   - The names are ridiculous.

01:32:37   - The Apple TV box, the Apple TV 4K

01:32:40   is where I'm watching Apple TV Plus content

01:32:43   with the TV app.

01:32:44   Yes.

01:32:45   I know the names are questionable.

01:32:49   - Confusing. - Yes.

01:32:50   - Yeah.

01:32:51   (laughs)

01:32:52   I saw a post that, by Dustin Curtis about the names.

01:32:56   I'll put that in the show notes.

01:32:58   Just go read that, it's really funny.

01:33:00   - Yeah, I know that it makes,

01:33:04   I guess it makes some sort of sense

01:33:05   in its own twisted logic that it's an Apple TV box

01:33:08   and there's an Apple TV app and the service is Apple TV+.

01:33:11   but when you spell it out together, it is funny.

01:33:14   And it is confusing.

01:33:15   Maybe there should be different names

01:33:19   for the different products.

01:33:21   - I'm using the Apple TV, the 1080 version.

01:33:26   I don't have a 4K television,

01:33:27   and I have not experienced TV+ on Roku

01:33:32   or Samsung TV or anything else.

01:33:36   I'd be curious to hear from listeners

01:33:38   if you are using it on third-party hardware

01:33:40   how that's been.

01:33:41   So let us know, I'd love to hear that,

01:33:42   and maybe we can talk about that next week.

01:33:44   - I can actually try that.

01:33:45   I have a Samsung television with the Apple TV app.

01:33:47   - Oh yeah.

01:33:48   - So I should-- - Follow up.

01:33:49   - I should try that.

01:33:50   - Let us know. - I will follow up.

01:33:51   - I mean, hopefully it's exactly the same experience,

01:33:54   but with a better remote.

01:33:55   - It should be the same.

01:33:56   Well, the remote of the Samsung TV is not good, man.

01:34:00   - Pretty bad.

01:34:01   - Yeah, but no issues for me so far.

01:34:05   I've only watched on the Apple TV, so I haven't,

01:34:07   I don't watch TV shows on my phone.

01:34:10   Sometimes watching on my iPad, but not this time.

01:34:13   - So let's talk about the shows that we have seen.

01:34:16   And I'm gonna say at this point

01:34:18   that we may spoil something about these shows.

01:34:22   So be warned that we're gonna fire the spoiler horn

01:34:26   borrowed from our friend Jason.

01:34:27   And after that, you're on your own if we spoil a show.

01:34:31   We're gonna try not to, but it's probably inevitable.

01:34:33   So that's just how it is.

01:34:35   (dramatic music)

01:34:40   So what have you seen so far?

01:34:41   - So I'm all caught up on the three episodes

01:34:43   of The Morning Show and I watched the first episode

01:34:46   of For All Mankind last night.

01:34:49   I still have to watch See.

01:34:51   - I've only seen For All Mankind.

01:34:55   I saw all three episodes.

01:34:57   Mary wanted to watch The Morning Show with me

01:34:59   and we haven't had an evening to get started on that.

01:35:02   But let's start with The Morning Show

01:35:04   'cause in a way that seems like the flagship show.

01:35:06   Like that's the one that Apple,

01:35:08   it's got the biggest star power.

01:35:09   It's the one that they seem to be pushing the hardest at this point.

01:35:12   Uh, what do you think about it so far?

01:35:14   I came into the show very underwhelmed by the reviews and I've been pleasantly

01:35:20   surprised. I think it's a good show. I think it's an excellent cast.

01:35:24   I think it's a good story. It's captivated.

01:35:28   It has captivated me, uh, in a way that I was not expecting it to do. Um,

01:35:34   and I'm, I'm eagerly anticipating the next episode. I, you know,

01:35:39   So I think it's a good story. It's the kind of story that is very much, it is a contemporary

01:35:49   story about the, many kinds of issues like women in the workplace, specifically, you

01:35:55   know, Jennifer Aniston, she plays the host of a morning show in America, this fictional,

01:36:03   I think it's called TBA, TDA network. And it's the story of the consequences of the

01:36:12   #MeToo movement. And the consequences on both sides of the story, the person, the man that

01:36:24   is accused of abusing women in the workplace, which is played by... I'm terrible with names,

01:36:32   Steven, Steve Carell, and his colleagues at the network. And I think it's not, when

01:36:41   I say both sides, it's another kind of story that tries to argue in favor of both sides,

01:36:48   thankfully, at least based on what I've seen so far. I think the show tries to explain

01:36:57   what happens on both sides. And so we see in the first three episodes how the, I should

01:37:05   say I never remember character names, so the character played by Steve Correll, how it

01:37:11   deals with being fired from the network and sort of, you know, there's this idea of cancel

01:37:19   culture that some people talk about, like how suddenly his career after 15 years of

01:37:24   the network, being in everybody's homes in the morning with the morning show, it becomes

01:37:30   the subject of all of these accusations. And I think it's really well done. I think it's

01:37:40   a good story. It's very much modern and very much relatable. It's based on actual facts

01:37:48   that actually happened, specifically in the United States. I saw a scene showing how,

01:37:55   and I think this was based on a story from a guy that was fired from ABC, maybe, how

01:38:04   this person, this man, had a button installed at their desk to close the door remotely.

01:38:14   And yeah, it was a NBC. Okay. But yeah, a truly horrific story. Yes. And, and truly

01:38:24   her and the show has, and the show has a call out to that showing how the, one of these

01:38:29   desks at a button installed to close the door. So it's very much a modern story. And it's

01:38:36   true. And I think so far it does a good job showing because we see the stories from, you

01:38:42   we hear about him on Twitter, we see it on the news,

01:38:47   this show wants to show you what it's like

01:38:50   in the inside of a TV network that has to deal

01:38:54   with the consequences of all this.

01:38:56   And I think it's well done.

01:38:59   It's not a funny story, right?

01:39:03   But I think it's a-- - Right, it's serious.

01:39:05   - It's a serious story, but I think it's a captivating one

01:39:08   and it's well done.

01:39:09   And the actors, like the cast is excellent.

01:39:11   I think Jennifer Aniston does an excellent job, Steve Carell does, and Reese Witherspoon

01:39:16   as well. I love her character. Like the, you know, she plays this local news TV reporter

01:39:25   that suddenly is thrown into the spotlight of national television. I'm on the hook for

01:39:32   next for the next episode. Like I want to see what happens. I want to see what the story

01:39:35   is like. I think it's well done. I honestly don't understand what, and this is often the

01:39:40   case for me for TV shows and movies. I don't see what the issues with the from the early

01:39:45   reviews were. I think it's a good show. I think it's well done. I want to see what it

01:39:50   ends up being.

01:39:51   Yeah, the reviews are so interesting. I mean, if you will, I think we spoke about them on

01:39:55   the show a couple of weeks ago. Like it was a very cool reception from sort of the regular

01:40:02   reviewer people. But the reality is people like all sorts of different types of shows

01:40:07   and Apple is perfectly capable of making good television, just like they're perfectly capable

01:40:12   of making bad television.

01:40:13   And my sense is that maybe they don't have anything spectacular yet.

01:40:18   Like, I don't know if there's a single show that you have to sign up for this to watch,

01:40:23   right?

01:40:24   Like, like with Netflix has had that a couple of times, like, Oh my gosh, everyone is watching

01:40:28   this.

01:40:29   Everyone is talking about it, right?

01:40:30   Or HBO or AMC.

01:40:32   I don't think Apple TV plus has that yet,

01:40:34   but it seems like their shows are all,

01:40:37   at least for the most part, pretty good.

01:40:39   I don't know if they have like a real clunker yet. Maybe see,

01:40:42   I think people seem upset about that one, but I haven't,

01:40:46   I haven't watched any of that yet. Yeah, me neither. Yeah.

01:40:49   I am excited for the morning show.

01:40:51   I think for the reasons that you talked about,

01:40:55   it's a very interesting topic to have a show about,

01:40:59   especially right now where it's still very much part of our culture and yeah, you know that it is a

01:41:04   show about a current event and that's always really interesting and

01:41:08   Again that the cast I mean you couldn't ask for a stronger cast really for television Jennifer Aniston coming back to television for the first

01:41:15   Time that's huge right and I'm excited to see

01:41:19   What that's like excited to see Steve Carell in a serious role because I know him best as a comedic actor

01:41:25   right, things like The Office. So I am excited about that. I've watched all three episodes

01:41:32   of For All Mankind. We spoke about it on Liftoff yesterday, but we did not spoil anything

01:41:37   there. But the premise of the show is that right before Apollo 11, the Soviet Union beats America

01:41:45   to the moon. Which is such a good premise. I mean, it's so good. I love the idea. Like,

01:41:50   just a single event. It's so good. And then they follow it up. So Apollo 11 goes. It diverges

01:41:58   from real history very quickly, obviously. Apollo 11 goes, but is almost a disaster.

01:42:03   And then before Apollo 12, the Russians put the first woman on the Moon, which in real

01:42:10   life has yet to happen. The only astronauts on the Moon were men from America. Artemis

01:42:16   this I'm on a space engine now Artemis is NASA's program to put people back on the moon in the 2020s

01:42:22   They say that the first mission will have a woman aboard. There'll be a woman on the moon

01:42:25   So the show very quickly becomes about it comes from oh my gosh, Russia beat America to now

01:42:34   President Nixon wants women in the astronaut corps and where episode 3 ends off is that women are training to become astronauts

01:42:42   So can you tell me which is the sorry but if the Nixon tapes like the conversations that you hear at least in the first episode

01:42:49   Those are not real right there. Oh, no

01:42:53   No

01:42:54   but I think they did a really good job at using the tapes right to like share what Nixon is thinking cuz Nixon recorded everything that

01:43:01   Came out in Watergate. It's like it's it's it's a fun way to get Nixon worked in. Yeah

01:43:05   Okay, and I mean there's obviously a lot of historical footage

01:43:08   In fact, there are several shots across the three episodes that the show is 16 by 9 or 16 by 10 or whatever

01:43:14   It's widescreen

01:43:15   but which back in the day everything was 4 by 3 and they have

01:43:19   classic footage of

01:43:22   Apollo hardware in 4 by 3 and that they go back to that so that they dip in and out of like historical video

01:43:28   Which is fun and they don't clean it up. It looks historic

01:43:32   So they are winking to the fact that it's a period piece but not shot in the period right there

01:43:37   there's that sort of meta level to it. But I enjoy the show and I'm a space

01:43:43   nerd so I'm predisposed to liking this but I think it I think it's a really

01:43:48   interesting premise that to take something we all know really well and

01:43:51   just stick a fork right in its eye and say okay what we grew up knowing what

01:43:57   happened in this world that didn't happen at all and it took this radical

01:44:03   departure and I would imagine Jason I spoke about this as for all mankind goes

01:44:07   forward, it will depart from reality more and more, right? Like, you know, like the

01:44:15   women and the astronaut training, like that didn't happen in the 60s, really.

01:44:19   It happened for Mercury and there actually was a historic women's

01:44:24   astronaut training program and that is referenced in the show and some of those

01:44:28   women or characters in the show now, it's like they tie it to what was there, but

01:44:32   they are you know going to increasingly depart from the timeline and I'm really

01:44:37   excited to see where that goes because fiction in a setting that is historic is

01:44:43   just that's a really interesting sort of genre for me you know things like Man of

01:44:47   the High Castle kind of do the same thing right like it it's historic but

01:44:51   then then they turn and wink at the camera like oh I oh this is not the

01:44:55   history that we know you know it and I just love those sort of stories and so I

01:45:00   I like For All Mankind.

01:45:02   The acting is pretty good.

01:45:04   There are a couple places where it feels,

01:45:06   it feels a little thin,

01:45:08   that some of the characters responding to things

01:45:10   feel a little off,

01:45:12   but I'm willing to write that off

01:45:15   as it's the first couple of episodes.

01:45:17   And like most shows get better

01:45:19   further into their first season, right?

01:45:20   That's almost universal.

01:45:21   I mean, there are very few shows I can think of

01:45:23   where the best episodes are episodes one, two, and three.

01:45:25   Right?

01:45:26   - Right, yeah.

01:45:27   - And so, unlike you, I'm excited for when episode four

01:45:30   comes out on Friday and I'll be watching it this weekend and I'm a fan so far.

01:45:35   Anything that is based on chaos theory and the butterfly effect, you know, the idea of

01:45:39   changing a single condition at the beginning and then having wildly different results at

01:45:44   the end. I'm all in for that kind of stuff. I love the idea. So I think I saw somewhere

01:45:50   that Ronald Moore, what's the name of the creator of For All Mankind?

01:45:57   Ron Moore.

01:45:58   has like multiple seasons planned in his mind. And the idea would be to like, um, jump back

01:46:06   to like multiple decades in the future to see like the consequences of the single event,

01:46:11   uh, Russia putting a man on the moon first, like how it changed mankind for decades to

01:46:18   come. So that idea of like a single condition at the, in the initial, at the beginning,

01:46:24   it can affect history throughout the decades that's that's an awesome concept and yeah

01:46:31   I'm I mean I want to see what it's like I want to see what happens yeah so all in all

01:46:35   I think Apple is I think the start is totally fine you know TV+ is free for effectively

01:46:42   everybody at this point like I mean if you've bought something and they'll in the last however

01:46:46   long it is like I would imagine most people are watching it for free for the next year

01:46:51   And so for that, you know, I'm not paying 10 bucks a month at this point, then I'm fine

01:46:57   with it being a little slow.

01:46:59   I'm fine with it not being a ton of a ton of options.

01:47:02   There's a lot more coming.

01:47:03   There have been stories this week, Apple released the trailers for their first couple of movies,

01:47:08   including one called The Banker that looks really, really good.

01:47:15   And those are going to be in movie theaters and then streaming on Apple TV+, which is

01:47:22   something that Netflix and others have played with.

01:47:26   And several years ago, there was actually a big dust up with Netflix trying to do this

01:47:29   and a bunch of industry people being really upset about that, but Apple is going to do

01:47:34   it.

01:47:35   And so I think the best is yet to come with TV+.

01:47:38   But I think what's here is a pretty solid star.

01:47:41   It's not amazing, but it's definitely not as dire as it seemed like it was going to

01:47:45   be based on initial reviews.

01:47:48   Yes, yes.

01:47:49   If you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about, head over to the website relay.fm/connected/268.

01:47:56   While you're there, you can get in touch with us.

01:47:58   You can drop us an email with feedback or follow up.

01:48:00   And again, if you're using TV plus on a non Apple TV hardware, I actually honestly want

01:48:05   to know how that is.

01:48:06   So please let us know.

01:48:07   You can do that on Twitter as well.

01:48:08   You can find Federico there as Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I, and he is the editor-in-chief of MaxStories.net.

01:48:18   Myke was away this week, but you can follow him on Twitter as @imyke.

01:48:23   And I would say for Myke to know that he was missed, because he is missed, I miss Myke

01:48:29   when he's not here, what should people send him, Federico?

01:48:32   Do you have any ideas?

01:48:33   What should people send Myke?

01:48:37   Send Myke a tweet, @imyke, with your favorite holiday meal.

01:48:45   So wherever you are in the world, it can be Thanksgiving, Christmas, anything.

01:48:50   Your favorite holiday meal.

01:48:51   Let's get Myke in the holiday spirit.

01:48:53   Sounds good.

01:48:54   You can find me on Twitter as @ismh and my work at 512pixels.net.

01:48:59   I'd like to thank my wonderful wife Mary for joining you earlier in the show.

01:49:03   I have not heard that yet.

01:49:05   As I'm saying this, I will hear it in the edit.

01:49:07   - You're gonna like it.

01:49:08   - But I'm excited to hear that.

01:49:10   So thank you to her for stepping in this week

01:49:14   as the headphone tester in the family.

01:49:17   There's headphones everywhere, Federico.

01:49:18   She's just testing things all over the place.

01:49:21   I'd like to thank our sponsors this week,

01:49:23   Moo, FreshBooks, Hover, and Away.

01:49:25   Until next time, buddy, say goodbye.

01:49:28   - Arrivederci.