Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► Hello, and welcome to Connected, episode 268. It is made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:14 ◼   ► Moo, FreshBooks, Hover, and Away. My name is Mary Hackett, and I am joined by Federico

00:00:21 ◼   ► Vittucci. Hi, Mary, how are you? Hello, I'm quite well, thank you. So we need to address

00:00:27 ◼   ► is up front. We finally got rid of your husband on the show, Steven. So after much deliberation,

00:00:36 ◼   ► Myke and I discussed it is time for Steven to pursue his true passion, collecting old

00:00:41 ◼   ► Macs, and therefore you will be replacing Steven, Mary. I'm very excited about this.

00:00:47 ◼   ► We had a topic in mind. I know that you have a lot of opinions and thoughts about headphones

00:00:52 ◼   ► and specifically earbuds. I'm guessing for working out and listening to music. So I kind

00:00:58 ◼   ► of wanted to kick things off with this topic. So Stephen mentioned a while back before being

00:01:03 ◼   ► fired from the show that you bought the new Powerbeats Pro, I guess that's the name. So

00:01:13 ◼   ► tell me, and I have a lot of questions for you because my girlfriend Sylvia also bought

00:01:18 ◼   ► these earbuds. I have a lot of questions. So tell me how your experience with these

00:01:22 ◼   ► ones went. Sure. So I should preface all this by saying I don't like to buy new things.

00:01:30 ◼   ► I like to get one thing that works and if it works well I don't want to change it ever.

00:01:36 ◼   ► So I branched out, Stephen encouraged me because my Beats X kept dying. I was on my third pair.

00:01:43 ◼   ► So we branched out and tried the new ones, the Powerbeats Pro, and I was very hesitant

00:01:49 ◼   ► because for several reasons.

00:01:51 ◼   ► The first of which being it takes up a lot of space in my bag.

00:01:55 ◼   ► And I also always have a water bottle in there in my wallet and usually some things that

00:01:59 ◼   ► belong to some number of children in my field notes and my phone and, you know, whatever

00:02:06 ◼   ► else I travel with every day.

00:02:08 ◼   ► So I wanted something, you know, in the, um, my Beats X, their little carrying pack is

00:02:13 ◼   ► fairly flat and I can just fit it in a little pocket.

00:02:17 ◼   ► The Powerbeats Pro is a lot bulkier.

00:02:20 ◼   ► I like the way that it opens.

00:02:21 ◼   ► It's really loud though.

00:02:22 ◼   ► Like you can't really do it conspicuously.

00:02:26 ◼   ► When it opens and closes, it's loud and it's very slick.

00:02:30 ◼   ► So if I drop it, if I'm like trying to do something in the, in the kitchen or like my

00:02:34 ◼   ► my hands are wet and I drop it, it automatically pops open and there go the AirPods, like,

00:02:40 ◼   ► well, onto the floor.

00:02:42 ◼   ► So that's kind of annoying.

00:02:44 ◼   ► But as far as actual sound quality, I really like them.

00:02:50 ◼   ► They fit really well, and that's because besides like going into your ear pretty securely,

00:02:57 ◼   ► it also wraps around the back of your earlobe, all the way around the top in the back.

00:03:03 ◼   ► And that really bothered me at first, but once you get used to feeling it all around

00:03:07 ◼   ► on the side of your heads, it really, I think it helps with the seal a lot.

00:03:12 ◼   ► These are the ones that they have the in-ear rubber or silicone tips, right?

00:03:17 ◼   ► Yes, they do.

00:03:18 ◼   ► And you can, I guess they come in multiple sizes in the box?

00:03:21 ◼   ► I think so.

00:03:22 ◼   ► You can swap them?

00:03:24 ◼   ► Yes.

00:03:25 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:26 ◼   ► So the main problem that we have, that Sylvia has, basically what you just mentioned.

00:03:32 ◼   ► So she can never use any kind of in-ear earbuds because after a few minutes she says she starts

00:03:41 ◼   ► getting a headache.

00:03:43 ◼   ► She thought that these ones were going to be better.

00:03:46 ◼   ► She used to have the old Powerbeats, not the Pro, not the wireless ones when they still

00:03:52 ◼   ► had a cable running around the back of your neck essentially.

00:03:57 ◼   ► Basically after a few minutes of usage she starts getting a headache at the sides of

00:04:00 ◼   ► her head.

00:04:01 ◼   ► And also she complained about the ear hooks that wrap around your ears. She was also getting

00:04:08 ◼   ► a headache there. So she keeps saying that and I even let her try the new AirPods Pro

00:04:15 ◼   ► with the, they also have the silicone tips. Same problem. So she keeps saying that the

00:04:22 ◼   ► best earbuds for her are the standard traditional non-pro AirPods, the original ones. Have you

00:04:31 ◼   ► ever had any... so you mentioned you got used to the feel of the silicon tips and the ear

00:04:36 ◼   ► hook of the powerbeats. Yeah. So you didn't have any of these issues, you just got used

00:04:41 ◼   ► to them. I didn't, but if Steven were here, if he still had the position that I have now

00:04:48 ◼   ► taken over, he would say, he would agree with Sylvia, that he just can't stand... and maybe

00:04:54 ◼   ► it's just anatomical, like it has to do with the shape of your ear, because he can't stand

00:05:00 ◼   ► either one of these that I have been going back and forth with, the AirPods Pro and the

00:05:05 ◼   ► Powerbeats Pro. Both of those bother his ear, but he loves the original AirPods. But I don't

00:05:12 ◼   ► like them because they don't stay in, and I don't like that they don't form to the shape

00:05:17 ◼   ► of your ear.

00:05:18 ◼   ► >> Interesting. So the AirPods do not stay in for you?

00:05:21 ◼   ► >> No. I mean, I can make it work, but if you're moving around and working out, I just

00:05:28 ◼   ► felt like they were always slipping out and that made me really nervous because I didn't

00:05:32 ◼   ► want to lose one.

00:05:34 ◼   ► So with the Powerbeats Pro, what types of workouts do you usually do?

00:05:40 ◼   ► Everything from just like working on a machine or might be doing yoga where I'm upside down,

00:05:47 ◼   ► doing handstands, you know, turning your head to the side, doing different twists and that's

00:05:52 ◼   ► where I notice I'm having trouble even still with the AirPods Pro.

00:05:56 ◼   ► I've tried both size tips and my ear seems to be right in between the two sizes that

00:06:02 ◼   ► they give because the smaller size will flip out and the medium size doesn't seem to help

00:06:10 ◼   ► much either.

00:06:11 ◼   ► I feel like I can't, it's fine for sound but if I'm going to be in an awkward position,

00:06:16 ◼   ► meaning like my head is to the side and my ears, you know, parallel with the ground,

00:06:21 ◼   ► they're just gravity is going to take over and I lose it.

00:06:23 ◼   ► Have you noticed any differences between the Powerbeats Pro and the AirPods Pro in terms

00:06:28 ◼   ► of the pressure of the silicone tips?

00:06:31 ◼   ► Because Apple mentioned that the AirPods Pro have this new vent system that's meant to

00:06:38 ◼   ► relieve pressure from your inner ear.

00:06:42 ◼   ► They're using better air circulation essentially in these little tiny buds that they have.

00:06:48 ◼   ► So in theory, they should be helping with not making you feel that feeling of pressure

00:06:56 ◼   ► that you get with the Cylakon2.

00:06:57 ◼   ► Like something stuck in your ear, yeah.

00:06:59 ◼   ► Yes.

00:07:00 ◼   ► Have you noticed any differences between the Powerbeats and the AirPods as far as the...

00:07:04 ◼   ► Yes, and I did not realize that that must be what it is.

00:07:07 ◼   ► I just thought that the Powerbeats Pro were just...

00:07:11 ◼   ► I can't really think of another word other than invasive.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Like when you put it in, you really have to...

00:07:15 ◼   ► I mean, because you have to twist it. It's kind of a pain to get them in. You have to

00:07:18 ◼   ► twist it all the way around your ear and then make sure that it's in. And it does feel like

00:07:23 ◼   ► it's just all the way in there. Like I can hear nothing else but my music, which is what

00:07:28 ◼   ► you want. But it does. Yeah, you can feel, like you said, that's a little bit of pressure.

00:07:34 ◼   ► It doesn't cause headaches or any trouble for me. But yeah, that does make the AirPods

00:07:39 ◼   ► Pro a little more comfortable, I guess, in that respect.

00:07:42 ◼   ► And what about listening to music? Any sound differences you've noticed between the two?

00:07:48 ◼   ► Yes, so I really wanted the AirPods are so fancy. The AirPods Pro, I wanted them to be

00:07:54 ◼   ► the best, but they just aren't. The Powerbeats Pro, like I can hear so much more bass. Like

00:08:01 ◼   ► there's a song that I keep listening to kind of on repeat right now. And they have a lot

00:08:08 ◼   ► One of their versions of the song is with a marching band and I listened to the song with last night with the Powerbeats Pro

00:08:14 ◼   ► And then with AirPods Pro and it was so much better on the Powerbeats Pro

00:08:19 ◼   ► Just because I felt like the drum line was in front of me felt like I was on a football field

00:08:22 ◼   ► and then the AirPods Pro just sounds so tinny and

00:08:27 ◼   ► Just almost hurts your ears

00:08:30 ◼   ► Like I couldn't get it as the music as loud because it was just too much trouble and there wasn't enough

00:08:36 ◼   ► bass

00:08:37 ◼   ► to balance it out. A lot of people don't like the beats sound. I do. I think it's fun to

00:08:44 ◼   ► have a little more bass and the drums are a little more prominent. I've always thought

00:08:48 ◼   ► it was fun. I want to feel like I'm there. Yeah, but a lot of people, you know, these

00:08:53 ◼   ► audio files, these people, you know, folks who care about the purity of the sound and

00:08:59 ◼   ► all that stuff, which I totally understand. What are you using them for? Depends on what's

00:09:04 ◼   ► best for you. So next question would be touch controls. So the new AirPods, you

00:09:11 ◼   ► gotta press on the little stem if you want to play/pause and trigger noise

00:09:15 ◼   ► cancellation, but the Powerbeats, they have the little plastic thing by the

00:09:21 ◼   ► side of your ear, right? And they have physical buttons. So what's the

00:09:26 ◼   ► difference like for you? So on the AirPods Pro, the stem, it's just

00:09:33 ◼   ► difficult to get to because the stem is shorter. It's difficult for me to like, I feel like

00:09:39 ◼   ► I have to really work to get my fingers around it, to push pause, to call for Siri. On the

00:09:44 ◼   ► Powerbeats Pro, oh, and there, unless I'm dismissing it, y'all correct me. I can't

00:09:52 ◼   ► find volume control. There's not volume control on the AirPods Pro.

00:09:55 ◼   ► Yeah, there's no volume control.

00:09:58 ◼   ► That drives me nuts.

00:10:00 ◼   ► Drives me crazy.

00:10:01 ◼   ► And on the Powerbeats Pro, it's the button on the top, so there's like a round button

00:10:05 ◼   ► where the B is, and then there's another button up on top a little bit, and that one you can

00:10:11 ◼   ► easily do volume up, volume down.

00:10:14 ◼   ► So on button control, I prefer the Powerbeats Pro.

00:10:17 ◼   ► Yeah, volume control has always been the one feature that a lot of people have wanted from

00:10:24 ◼   ► the AirPods.

00:10:25 ◼   ► I really struggle to imagine how they could do it though, because there's no room for

00:10:29 ◼   ► buttons on the AirPods, unless they were super tiny buttons that you need to press.

00:10:35 ◼   ► And you could probably, with the old ones, with the old AirPods, with the longer stem,

00:10:40 ◼   ► you could probably make the argument that, you know, was a longer stem, therefore maybe

00:10:46 ◼   ► Apple could have explored the idea of sort of swiping across the stem, sort of like a

00:10:50 ◼   ► slider to adjust volume.

00:10:53 ◼   ► But now that it's even shorter on the AirPods Pro, I really don't know.

00:10:56 ◼   ► You know, you're gonna be swiping a finger on your ear essentially, like that's not gonna

00:11:01 ◼   ► work.

00:11:02 ◼   ► Yeah, really the only spot to be, because they've got, is that the vent, the black bit

00:11:06 ◼   ► that's toward the top?

00:11:07 ◼   ► Okay, so that they couldn't do anything there.

00:11:09 ◼   ► But like right below it, I feel like you could have like a tiny little slider where you could

00:11:13 ◼   ► easily just zoop.

00:11:14 ◼   ► Yeah, otherwise you gotta change the volume.

00:11:16 ◼   ► I mean if you have an Apple Watch, you can...

00:11:18 ◼   ► You can use a watch, yeah.

00:11:19 ◼   ► what you're, you know, stop your workout and figure out where it is. Yeah, it's not ideal.

00:11:27 ◼   ► So after the Beats X, between the Powerbeats Pro and the AirPods Pro, what's your pick?

00:11:36 ◼   ► I really like the Beats X best if they just would not break. If they just worked, they

00:11:42 ◼   ► worked. They would be my favorite. How many pairs did you get for the V-Tech? I've been

00:11:47 ◼   ► through three. Oh my god. The first one was faulty, just kind of DOA. So we sent those

00:11:54 ◼   ► back, got it, you know, they replaced them. And then those didn't last very long. And

00:11:58 ◼   ► I think with that second pair, I think the buttons failed or like something with the

00:12:05 ◼   ► sinking in the button, it just, they still worked as headphones, but nothing else worked

00:12:10 ◼   ► easily. And then the third pair of the buttons died, so I just had to get like the light,

00:12:18 ◼   ► the LED failed, and so I had to just guess if it was almost empty, if it was full of battery.

00:12:24 ◼   ► And then it started having problems sinking as well. But I just, I like that I can easily,

00:12:31 ◼   ► with those, between the BeatsX and the Powerbeats Pro, I like that with the BeatsX, you can just pop

00:12:38 ◼   ► it out real quick if somebody's gonna say something or I need to listen with just one

00:12:41 ◼   ► in because I'm also you know paying attention to kids or I'm running out on the road I need

00:12:47 ◼   ► to be able to hear road noise and you can easily stick it back in it's not like with

00:12:51 ◼   ► the Powerbeats or I've got like pull out the huge square and turn it around my ear, stick

00:12:57 ◼   ► it in, yeah I can easily in and out the volumes right there you know by my neck since they're

00:13:03 ◼   ► connected around I mean it's sometimes sure it did it did get tangled up like if you have

00:13:07 ◼   ► a hoodie on and you're running, sometimes it would just kind of pull weird and you have

00:13:10 ◼   ► to readjust, but it wasn't that big of a deal.

00:13:14 ◼   ► So for you, the combination of good enough sound quality and the fact that you had physical

00:13:20 ◼   ► volume controls made them preferable to something like the Powerbeats, which is, I guess, a

00:13:27 ◼   ► little more convenient and maybe they sound better, but the design of the Powerbeats,

00:13:32 ◼   ► it's a whole affair when you gotta pull them out.

00:13:34 ◼   ► Yeah, you're right, the sound is great. Because I did feel like there was some bass

00:13:39 ◼   ► missing with the BeatsX as well, and we played with the volume controls, but it still was lacking a little bit.

00:13:47 ◼   ► I mean, we don't know if Apple is ever gonna do a proper update to the BeatsX.

00:13:54 ◼   ► It seems like they're pretty focused on the Powerbeats and the AirPods right now.

00:13:59 ◼   ► Yeah, it's probably...

00:14:00 ◼   ► And you probably don't want to get a fourth model of the Beats X.

00:14:05 ◼   ► It seems foolish.

00:14:07 ◼   ► I mean, after three tries, it's probably, you know, it's probably it for you.

00:14:11 ◼   ► It's time to move on.

00:14:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:13 ◼   ► It's time to move on.

00:14:14 ◼   ► So I guess you're going to keep using the Powerbeats.

00:14:16 ◼   ► I think so.

00:14:18 ◼   ► Like I really, I liked a lot of the new, I'm sorry, I don't know the technical terms,

00:14:22 ◼   ► but where you can change the setting on the iPhone to say like block out any noise.

00:14:29 ◼   ► Yes.

00:14:30 ◼   ► noise canceling, that's a really cool feature.

00:14:33 ◼   ► And then where you can have it purposefully be able to hear if somebody calls you, I mean

00:14:39 ◼   ► calls your name, you know like somebody in the room needs your attention, where you can

00:14:42 ◼   ► hear it like clear as day.

00:14:44 ◼   ► That is really cool.

00:14:45 ◼   ► Because then you wouldn't have to have one AirPod out.

00:14:49 ◼   ► You could have them both in and then hear also if somebody was trying to get your attention

00:14:53 ◼   ► or a car was beeping at you.

00:14:54 ◼   ► It's like I wish that those things were on the PowerBeats Pro.

00:14:58 ◼   ► I really just want them both to be squished together. Alas.

00:15:03 ◼   ► The Powerbeats Pro with noise cancellation and all the AirPods features, that would be nice, actually.

00:15:09 ◼   ► And like the smaller packaging. Oh, I also like that it's tough to find, I guess it depends on your bag,

00:15:15 ◼   ► but my bag is black and gray, just like the case, so sometimes I'm staring at my Powerbeats Pro

00:15:22 ◼   ► in my bag while I'm looking at them like "oh, there they are". It's hard to see, but the AirPods Pro

00:15:26 ◼   ► is white and I don't know the inside of any bag that if it starts out white it doesn't

00:15:31 ◼   ► stay white for long. So these are easier to see in my bag too.

00:15:37 ◼   ► Well Mary thank you so much for doing this. This was really, I think it was really informative

00:15:44 ◼   ► because I rarely get to hear the perspective of you know somebody who's tried all these

00:15:51 ◼   ► different earbuds. I think Steven and Myke and I, we just use the AirPods. And I have,

00:15:58 ◼   ► I have, you know, very little experience with the Powerbeats Pro again, because my experience

00:16:03 ◼   ► mostly consists of Sylvia complaining about them. You know, but I totally get it. You

00:16:09 ◼   ► know, headache is not fun. Thank you so much, Mary. Unfortunately, I was just informed by

00:16:16 ◼   ► my legal department that we need to hire Stephen back. Um,

00:16:20 ◼   ► or is, is firing was not, um, was not, um,

00:16:24 ◼   ► definitive decision I'm afraid. So we need, my reign was short. Yes.

00:16:29 ◼   ► I'm very sorry, but it was, it was a, thank you for the chance. Oh,

00:16:32 ◼   ► thank you so much. It was fun. Uh,

00:16:33 ◼   ► we're going to have you back on sometime eventually because as always we need to,

00:16:38 ◼   ► we need your, you're the power beats, you're the power beats, uh,

00:16:42 ◼   ► resident expert at this point. We have Michael is the Apple TV guy, Steven of course, all

00:16:48 ◼   ► things Mac, old and new, and you will be the Powerbeats expert. This is a title that I

00:16:56 ◼   ► just bestowed upon you.

00:16:58 ◼   ► Thanks, Federico.

00:16:59 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:17:01 ◼   ► [Music]

00:17:16 ◼   ► Hey.

00:17:17 ◼   ► Hey. I was talking to the chat room about stuff that I'm working on.

00:17:22 ◼   ► Oh, that's exciting.

00:17:23 ◼   ► Yeah. Also, that was fun with Mary. She did really good.

00:17:27 ◼   ► Good. I'm a little nervous to hear it.

00:17:30 ◼   ► to hear it. Why? In the edit? Nah, don't worry. Don't worry. Yeah, everything's fine. We should

00:17:38 ◼   ► just keep doing the show. Yes. Okay. So earlier in the year, some point in the past, we did

00:17:45 ◼   ► audio predictions. These don't have a name. They probably will at some point. But we thought

00:17:52 ◼   ► it'd be a good time to review these because there's been a lot of stuff that's happened

00:17:58 ◼   ► as you and Mary just spoke about.

00:17:59 ◼   ► Audio predictions could be all addictions.

00:18:04 ◼   ► Pre-audio.

00:18:08 ◼   ► [laughs]

00:18:10 ◼   ► I don't think that's it.

00:18:11 ◼   ► [laughs]

00:18:12 ◼   ► Nope, gotta keep trying, man.

00:18:14 ◼   ► It's looking really tight.

00:18:16 ◼   ► Yes, so, well, Michael is not here.

00:18:19 ◼   ► So I guess this will be hard to adjudicate.

00:18:25 ◼   ► Can you fill Michael's role? Sure, Stephen. Yes. So British accent. I can't I can't do the accent.

00:18:33 ◼   ► But so it's a round one. Myke said that AirPods would gain more controls via touch actions.

00:18:42 ◼   ► Yeah, he's not wrong about that. Not wrong about that at all. I mean, he didn't say AirPods Pro,

00:18:48 ◼   ► but it is a force sensor. But you know, it did it. We're gonna we're gonna give him a point for

00:18:55 ◼   ► for that. Okay. I said at least one more color option comes to the AirPods. I was incorrect.

00:19:02 ◼   ► Yes you were. There were rumors that Apple was going to do the black AirPods and the

00:19:06 ◼   ► gold AirPods for some reason, but that was not true. Not true. I feel like that could

00:19:13 ◼   ► still happen at some point. Like if they need to refresh the product again and it's less

00:19:18 ◼   ► of a big deal, colors are an obvious way to do it. At least the black ones. At least in

00:19:21 ◼   ► in black, which is a standard enough color for earbuds.

00:19:26 ◼   ► Everybody's doing them.

00:19:28 ◼   ► The Samsung ones are black, the new Amazon buds are black.

00:19:33 ◼   ► Pretty standard color.

00:19:36 ◼   ► - And what was your first pick?

00:19:38 ◼   ► - The AirPods, so this is the problem with this pick

00:19:42 ◼   ► that I didn't know any better,

00:19:44 ◼   ► and I did too much for a single pick.

00:19:48 ◼   ► - The classic blunder.

00:19:50 ◼   ► But this is the classic mistake, I should have known better, honestly.

00:19:55 ◼   ► The AirPods line is split in two, yes, which is correct, comma, and this is where the tragedy

00:20:02 ◼   ► occurred, the base version gets a small price drop in 2019.

00:20:08 ◼   ► So this is incorrect.

00:20:11 ◼   ► 2019 is still not over, still may be a chance that Apple is going to drop the price for

00:20:16 ◼   ► the AirPods by the end of the year.

00:20:18 ◼   ► I don't think they will though, and therefore this pick is half correct, half wrong, but

00:20:24 ◼   ► we do not award half points on this show for these predictions.

00:20:30 ◼   ► That's correct.

00:20:31 ◼   ► So, ethically speaking, this is not a point, but from a friendship point of view, I feel

00:20:39 ◼   ► like you should give me the point.

00:20:43 ◼   ► I don't think I can give it to you.

00:20:45 ◼   ► Okay.

00:20:46 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

00:20:47 ◼   ► then please go call Mary back.

00:20:50 ◼   ► - So Myke has one, I have zero, you have zero.

00:20:53 ◼   ► Round two, don't worry Myke blew it in this round

00:20:57 ◼   ► and said Apple would release a mini home pod in 2019.

00:21:01 ◼   ► - What was he thinking?

00:21:02 ◼   ► - I don't know, but that's wrong.

00:21:04 ◼   ► - I mean again, the year's not over yet,

00:21:09 ◼   ► but it's November and we haven't heard any rumors

00:21:12 ◼   ► about this. - Right.

00:21:13 ◼   ► That's like prime time holiday shopping stuff

00:21:16 ◼   ► and this is not here so.

00:21:18 ◼   ► - That's Michael, Michael didn't get the point.

00:21:21 ◼   ► Steven, what's your next pick?

00:21:23 ◼   ► - I said the HomePod would see a price drop, which it has.

00:21:27 ◼   ► - Really?

00:21:28 ◼   ► - Yes, it went--

00:21:29 ◼   ► - When did this happen?

00:21:30 ◼   ► - HomePod price reduction.

00:21:33 ◼   ► Well, they're always on sale,

00:21:35 ◼   ► but they went in April from 349 to 299.

00:21:40 ◼   ► - Oh yes, I remember this.

00:21:41 ◼   ► Well, this was when you were bragging

00:21:44 ◼   ► about the year of Steven.

00:21:45 ◼   ► - It's true. - When it happened.

00:21:46 ◼   ► That and all the executive shakeups, which I was also right about.

00:21:52 ◼   ► You were part of that.

00:21:55 ◼   ► I called Tim like, "Tim, I need a point on my podcast."

00:21:59 ◼   ► It's time to get rid of some people.

00:22:01 ◼   ► Please let Johnny Ive go.

00:22:03 ◼   ► Oh man, that happened this year.

00:22:05 ◼   ► I know, right?

00:22:07 ◼   ► My next prediction was, and I'm pretty happy about this one,

00:22:10 ◼   ► this one, shortcuts will gain HomePod/Airplay 2 actions to play audio on HomePod more quickly.

00:22:18 ◼   ► And sure enough, with 13.2, all of this happened.

00:22:23 ◼   ► It did.

00:22:24 ◼   ► You can connect to a HomePod, you can connect to any Airplay 2 speakers, and you can play

00:22:28 ◼   ► pause, shuffle, whatever, you can play audio on them from shortcuts more quickly.

00:22:34 ◼   ► So good job, TG, this is a point.

00:22:38 ◼   ► So we are all tied up now.

00:22:40 ◼   ► One, one, one.

00:22:41 ◼   ► Oh yes we are.

00:22:42 ◼   ► Okay.

00:22:43 ◼   ► And again, hmm, let's see, what do we do here?

00:22:49 ◼   ► Myke said Apple will create some new noise canceling technology.

00:22:55 ◼   ► I don't think what they're doing is new.

00:22:58 ◼   ► It seems like it's better than everybody else.

00:23:00 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:23:01 ◼   ► What do you think about this?

00:23:03 ◼   ► it the AirPods Pro are new and the Beats Solo Pro are new we don't know the technicalities

00:23:11 ◼   ► of the feature therefore it must you know we gotta give Michael the benefit of the doubt

00:23:16 ◼   ► it's a new noise cancellation technology that is he's gotta get the point.

00:23:24 ◼   ► I lean that way too because I mean Apple to talk about how they're using their audio processor

00:23:29 ◼   ► and you know, all that stuff. So I think we give it to him. Yeah, yeah.

00:23:34 ◼   ► Steven, what have you done? What have you done here?

00:23:38 ◼   ► So bad.

00:23:39 ◼   ► What were you thinking? This is worse than the Minio pod.

00:23:42 ◼   ► This is the worst pick of all of them. That Apple would do some sort of Apple news integration

00:23:48 ◼   ► into its audio products. I still think there's room for this. The Echo does it. Google home

00:23:52 ◼   ► does it. Apple does not. You know, maybe they could loop podcasts into this, but there's

00:23:57 ◼   ► There's been no movement here of combining like, you know, the, this, the voice assistant

00:24:03 ◼   ► and the news service.

00:24:05 ◼   ► So that is not a point for me.

00:24:07 ◼   ► For news integration.

00:24:08 ◼   ► That was a bold prediction for you.

00:24:10 ◼   ► It was bold, but it was wrong.

00:24:12 ◼   ► Yes.

00:24:13 ◼   ► And mine was also very, very wrong.

00:24:15 ◼   ► It was based on rumors that we were hearing at the time.

00:24:19 ◼   ► I said, you know, we were hearing that Apple was going to make over ear headphones, like

00:24:25 ◼   ► proper Apple branded non beats headphones and I said Apple head pots because of course

00:24:31 ◼   ► I came up with the name are wireless only have no headphone jack charge either via lightning

00:24:38 ◼   ► or USB C with with power delivery like either via is wild what was I thinking also USB C

00:24:51 ◼   ► power delivery is way overkill for a set of headphones.

00:24:56 ◼   ► Why did I say either VL or USB?

00:25:02 ◼   ► So I have a I have a thought about those rumors that we heard that Apple was going to make

00:25:06 ◼   ► headphones with their the wireless chip and everything. I think those rumors end up being

00:25:12 ◼   ► true except that it was a Beats product, right? Like you can imagine that people who are looking

00:25:17 ◼   ► for Apple rumors in the supply chain or whatever.

00:25:20 ◼   ► Like the difference between Apple and Beats is basically just branding at this point.

00:25:24 ◼   ► They are the same company.

00:25:25 ◼   ► And so what I'm going to try to do in the future when we see these like headphone rumors,

00:25:30 ◼   ► I'm going to try to be a little more agnostic about it.

00:25:32 ◼   ► Like, yeah, that could be Beats or it could be Apple.

00:25:34 ◼   ► Because I just I think that may have just gotten lost in the shuffle somewhere.

00:25:38 ◼   ► Anyways, congratulations, Myke, who is not here this week, but is the the winner of our

00:25:44 ◼   ► audio predictions, it seems like.

00:25:46 ◼   ► If it's not here, should it be the winner?

00:25:49 ◼   ► That's a good...

00:25:50 ◼   ► I mean, if you're running a race and you don't show up, do you really win the race?

00:25:56 ◼   ► That's a good point.

00:25:57 ◼   ► So I don't know, maybe you should get minus one point for not showing up.

00:26:01 ◼   ► Well, that makes it a three-way tie.

00:26:03 ◼   ► No.

00:26:04 ◼   ► Three-way tie it is!

00:26:07 ◼   ► Michael is the winner of the 2019 connected Apple audio predictions.

00:26:15 ◼   ► The official, the first installment of the AAP.

00:26:20 ◼   ► The Unconnected.

00:26:24 ◼   ► I'm really trying to come up with a name.

00:26:26 ◼   ► It's hard.

00:26:27 ◼   ► You know, the Jeremy's and the Ricky's were so obvious, were just like, just obviously

00:26:31 ◼   ► the perfect name.

00:26:32 ◼   ► This one, maybe, maybe someone can help us out and follow up.

00:26:36 ◼   ► The Audios.

00:26:37 ◼   ► All right, we have some follow up and we have topics and we have all sorts of stuff.

00:26:45 ◼   ► but let me tell you about it for sponsor.

00:26:47 ◼   ► How does that sound?

00:26:48 ◼   ► - Okay, sure.

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00:28:02 ◼   ► and Real AFM.

00:28:03 ◼   ► So last week y'all spoke about the AirPods Pro

00:28:07 ◼   ► and I wanted to weigh in on what I thought about 'em.

00:28:10 ◼   ► This may overlap with what Mary talked about.

00:28:12 ◼   ► I haven't heard what Mary spoke about,

00:28:14 ◼   ► So the headline here is I don't think they're for me.

00:28:17 ◼   ► For one, the regular AirPods fit really well in my ears.

00:28:20 ◼   ► I find them comfortable, they don't fall out or anything.

00:28:23 ◼   ► While the AirPods Pro do have those rubbery tips,

00:28:26 ◼   ► I just don't find them as comfortable.

00:28:28 ◼   ► I think it's because they are further in your ear

00:28:31 ◼   ► and I really dislike that feeling.

00:28:33 ◼   ► I don't know what it is.

00:28:35 ◼   ► I found tips that were comfortable

00:28:36 ◼   ► and the fit test thing checked out okay,

00:28:39 ◼   ► but I found the additional pressure

00:28:42 ◼   ► Sort of the fullness the fullness feeling I had in my ear

00:28:45 ◼   ► I really disliked I will say though that the active noise cancellation like Myke said is better than I expected

00:28:51 ◼   ► I find that generally a very uncomfortable sensation after a while and

00:28:55 ◼   ► Wearing the AirPods Pro for several hours with the noise cancellation on

00:29:00 ◼   ► Was fine by the end of it. I felt you know like fatigue was starting, but it was better than I thought

00:29:07 ◼   ► But at the end of the day, they're a little less comfortable for me personally, and I really like the regular AirPods

00:29:13 ◼   ► So I'm gonna stay put. I've grown used to the noise cancellation of the AirPods Pro

00:29:18 ◼   ► over the past week. I also find it very comfortable, especially compared to other

00:29:24 ◼   ► earbuds and headphones with noise cancellation. I do get the sort of the weird feeling for the first couple of minutes

00:29:31 ◼   ► but that it's sort of a

00:29:33 ◼   ► It's almost like it

00:29:35 ◼   ► fits itself to, like, over time to work better for me.

00:29:40 ◼   ► Like, it gets better after a couple of minutes.

00:29:44 ◼   ► I don't know if it's a new pressure, you know,

00:29:48 ◼   ► system that Apple has created with the vents

00:29:50 ◼   ► in the AirPods Pro, but it really does work well.

00:29:53 ◼   ► Like, it feels a little strange for the first minute,

00:29:57 ◼   ► first couple of minutes, and then it gets a lot better.

00:29:59 ◼   ► And I tried either in pure noise cancellation mode

00:30:02 ◼   ► or the transparency mode, works really well.

00:30:05 ◼   ► The only issues that I've had over the past week,

00:30:10 ◼   ► just randomly and sometimes the AirPods Pro disconnect

00:30:13 ◼   ► from my iPhone or Apple TV, but it only happens once.

00:30:17 ◼   ► Then I got to reconnect and it's fine.

00:30:21 ◼   ► It appears that like it happens at least once

00:30:23 ◼   ► after I take them out of the case

00:30:25 ◼   ► and I first connect them to a device.

00:30:28 ◼   ► They drop the connection after like a minute.

00:30:31 ◼   ► It happened like three times.

00:30:34 ◼   ► So it's completely random and occasional,

00:30:37 ◼   ► but I thought I'd mention this.

00:30:39 ◼   ► And yeah, I'm really happy so far.

00:30:43 ◼   ► So Stephen, you're going back.

00:30:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm gonna stay with the,

00:30:51 ◼   ► I have the AirPods 2, the revision with the wireless case,

00:30:54 ◼   ► and I'm gonna stay with those.

00:30:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, makes sense.

00:30:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I do, I don't really have a lot of environments

00:31:01 ◼   ► where I need the active noise cancellation.

00:31:04 ◼   ► Like I'm not on a train or a bus

00:31:07 ◼   ► on any sort of regular basis, right?

00:31:10 ◼   ► I don't work in coffee shops with headphones on.

00:31:12 ◼   ► Like for me and my purposes,

00:31:14 ◼   ► the features of the AirPods are totally fine.

00:31:17 ◼   ► And because they fit well,

00:31:17 ◼   ► and I can ride my bike with them, I can run with them,

00:31:20 ◼   ► they really fit me.

00:31:21 ◼   ► And so I'm happy that they're gonna continue

00:31:24 ◼   ► to meet my needs.

00:31:25 ◼   ► And I'm not worried about Apple getting rid of them,

00:31:28 ◼   ► like the AirPods Pro taking over.

00:31:30 ◼   ► I think they will remain distinct products

00:31:32 ◼   ► for a long, long time.

00:31:33 ◼   ► Mm-hmm yeah I think so. Because there are people who want options and who want a

00:31:37 ◼   ► cheaper product right? The AirPods Pro are expensive. Also in follow-up I

00:31:42 ◼   ► mentioned last week that the wallet case that I'm using with my iPhone it's the

00:31:48 ◼   ► Bellroy wallet case was not working with NFC triggers and I was wrong it

00:31:57 ◼   ► appears that I ran into a bug with shortcuts and automation on my iPhone

00:32:02 ◼   ► the top section of the case right next to the camera where the NFC chip is

00:32:09 ◼   ► located on an iPhone. It does work. It scans NFC stickers and tags successfully

00:32:15 ◼   ► so the issues that I've had last week they were just random bugs in iOS 13.

00:32:23 ◼   ► Weird. Yeah I know. So the case because it's thinner at the top compared to the

00:32:30 ◼   ► bottom section where you stick in your credit cards, it does work just fine with NFC.

00:32:36 ◼   ► I've installed the, and I guess this is also follow up, we have the first beta of iOS 13.3

00:32:43 ◼   ► and iPadOS 13.3 and all the other, you know, watchOS, tvOS and all that. I've installed

00:32:48 ◼   ► it on my phone last night, then I put it on the iPad Pro. Of course it fixes more bugs

00:32:55 ◼   ► than 13.2 and automation has been fine so all the NFC triggers are working correctly for me.

00:33:02 ◼   ► And we're going to talk about the issues with Apple software later, but yeah, more bugs fixed

00:33:12 ◼   ► in 13.3, which is now in public beta too. It just came out a few minutes ago.

00:33:16 ◼   ► I'm off the beta train for a while. I generally do this. I'll run them during the summer at a

00:33:23 ◼   ► a certain point leading up to the releases.

00:33:27 ◼   ► And then I stayed on it through the 13.1 cycle,

00:33:31 ◼   ► but then I got off before 13.2.

00:33:34 ◼   ► So I'm back on the public release on everything.

00:33:37 ◼   ► And I'd imagine I'll stay there until sometime late

00:33:40 ◼   ► next summer with I was 14 getting into shape.

00:33:43 ◼   ► - That must feel nice.

00:33:45 ◼   ► - It's great.

00:33:46 ◼   ► So you have a tiny topic and it is ironic

00:33:50 ◼   ► because you made fun of me for thinking about Apple

00:33:53 ◼   ► incorporating Apple News into its audio products.

00:33:56 ◼   ► But your tiny topic is integrating Apple Music

00:33:59 ◼   ► and Apple TV more closely.

00:34:01 ◼   ► So why is this not a silly idea?

00:34:03 ◼   ► - Because mine makes more sense than yours.

00:34:05 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:34:07 ◼   ► - Ouch.

00:34:10 ◼   ► - So, no, I do think that,

00:34:13 ◼   ► actually, you know, the Apple News integration,

00:34:15 ◼   ► once you explain it, it does make some sense.

00:34:18 ◼   ► It just, you know, when you see the Apple News name

00:34:22 ◼   ► written down, it elicits that kind of response, I suppose.

00:34:27 ◼   ► Because it's Apple News.

00:34:28 ◼   ► It's not great.

00:34:29 ◼   ► Are you still paying?

00:34:30 ◼   ► Have you ever paid for Apple News Plus?

00:34:32 ◼   ► No.

00:34:33 ◼   ► OK.

00:34:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I canceled my subscription a few weeks ago.

00:34:37 ◼   ► I realized I was not reading magazines as much

00:34:39 ◼   ► as I thought I would.

00:34:41 ◼   ► Go figure.

00:34:43 ◼   ► So here's my thought.

00:34:44 ◼   ► So I was watching a bunch of shows on Apple TV Plus.

00:34:49 ◼   ► specifically for All Mankind, I watched the first episode and I realized that Apple was using a, you know, a

00:34:56 ◼   ► non-original soundtrack. They were using songs, actual songs from other artists in the show.

00:35:02 ◼   ► And so I thought, wouldn't it be nice if,

00:35:05 ◼   ► because Apple now owns both ends of the experience, they have a TV streaming service and they have a music streaming service,

00:35:13 ◼   ► wouldn't it be nice to have an integration between the two, where either during the episode

00:35:19 ◼   ► a banner pops up that shows you the song, or if you don't want to be distracted,

00:35:23 ◼   ► there could be a section within the TV app that tells you music from this episode.

00:35:30 ◼   ► And it's got a list of the songs that appear in the episode,

00:35:33 ◼   ► then you can open Apple Music to listen to them or add them to a playlist, whatever.

00:35:37 ◼   ► And I tweeted this and, of course, very helpfully a lot of people told me,

00:35:43 ◼   ► "Oh, but Apple Music already has playlists for the music of "For All Mankind" and "See"

00:35:48 ◼   ► and the morning show, which is exactly my point. I shouldn't have to know that these playlists

00:35:54 ◼   ► exist. Also, I'm talking about something else completely, which is show me just the songs from

00:36:01 ◼   ► this episode. I don't want a playlist containing all of the songs, I just want to know what the

00:36:06 ◼   ► songs in this very specific episode that I'm watching are. And I really think that it would

00:36:12 ◼   ► make sense to have this integration between the two services if you're subscribing to both of them,

00:36:18 ◼   ► of course. And, you know, maybe it could even be a Shazam feature because Apple also owns

00:36:24 ◼   ► Shazam at this point. I just think it would be useful so that I don't need to know beforehand

00:36:32 ◼   ► that I can find a playlist for the morning show and all those other TV shows in Apple Music. Just

00:36:38 ◼   ► show me inside the TV app what the songs are because you own the service, both of them, and

00:36:46 ◼   ► this integration should be possible.

00:36:48 ◼   ► It's, you know, I think it will make a lot of sense.

00:36:50 ◼   ► - I always forget Apple botched Shazam.

00:36:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, they did.

00:36:54 ◼   ► - And this would be super cool.

00:36:55 ◼   ► It reminded me of Amazon Prime Video.

00:36:57 ◼   ► If you watch that on the iPad,

00:36:59 ◼   ► or I think even the Apple TV,

00:37:01 ◼   ► you can pause it and get information about

00:37:04 ◼   ► who's in the scene, you know,

00:37:06 ◼   ► trivia about the show, that sort of thing.

00:37:08 ◼   ► And integrating music into that would be great,

00:37:12 ◼   ► especially on a show like "For All Mankind,"

00:37:15 ◼   ► which is a period piece, there's a lot of music in there

00:37:17 ◼   ► that you may want to check out

00:37:19 ◼   ► that you're maybe not instantly familiar with.

00:37:21 ◼   ► It seems like it's just like low hanging fruit

00:37:23 ◼   ► and maybe they'll end up doing that, you know,

00:37:25 ◼   ► as these services become more mature,

00:37:27 ◼   ► but it's still early days, but I do like the idea.

00:37:30 ◼   ► - Thank you.

00:37:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's good.

00:37:32 ◼   ► - I will send the letter to Tim Cook.

00:37:35 ◼   ► - Yes, please.

00:37:36 ◼   ► - And officially request it, yes.

00:37:37 ◼   ► - CC, ediQ on that, make sure it goes to the right place.

00:37:41 ◼   ► I have a quick question.

00:37:42 ◼   ► Does Google Docs include multi-window support?

00:37:45 ◼   ► - No. - No?

00:37:47 ◼   ► - No. - Does not.

00:37:48 ◼   ► How much are you using multi-windowed apps on your iPad?

00:37:52 ◼   ► - That's a good question.

00:37:53 ◼   ► I think I addressed this in my review in September.

00:37:59 ◼   ► Not as much as I thought,

00:38:02 ◼   ► but it's a feature that I'm glad it's there

00:38:05 ◼   ► for the few times that I need it.

00:38:07 ◼   ► I know that it's possible now.

00:38:10 ◼   ► I think my problem is that I've conditioned myself

00:38:14 ◼   ► to not think of multiple windows and iPad for 10 years.

00:38:19 ◼   ► And just the way that I work

00:38:23 ◼   ► and the way that I interact with apps

00:38:26 ◼   ► has been shaped by that limitation

00:38:30 ◼   ► of everything is a single window.

00:38:32 ◼   ► And I think it's taken a lot of time for me

00:38:34 ◼   ► to get used to the idea that everything

00:38:37 ◼   ► doesn't have to be a single window anymore.

00:38:40 ◼   ► You can open multiple windows if you want,

00:38:43 ◼   ► but I got 10 years of muscle memory and workflows

00:38:46 ◼   ► and just ways of getting work done

00:38:50 ◼   ► that I need to update and rethink.

00:38:53 ◼   ► So it's taken me a while.

00:38:55 ◼   ► I do appreciate the inclusion though.

00:38:57 ◼   ► Like a few weeks ago, I needed to work on

00:39:00 ◼   ► a multiple text, multiple markdown documents

00:39:04 ◼   ► at the same time.

00:39:06 ◼   ► And I was using IA Writer

00:39:07 ◼   ► and it supports multiple windows now.

00:39:09 ◼   ► And so I'm glad that I was able to do that.

00:39:11 ◼   ► You know, you long press on a document

00:39:13 ◼   ► and you open it in a new window.

00:39:15 ◼   ► Or I do things like multiple windows in mail, for example.

00:39:19 ◼   ► But it's not like I completely revamped

00:39:25 ◼   ► the way that I work on iPad Pro

00:39:28 ◼   ► because of multiple windows.

00:39:30 ◼   ► It's just, it's something that I use occasionally

00:39:34 ◼   ► when it could be useful.

00:39:36 ◼   ► Otherwise, the way that I work on iPad

00:39:38 ◼   ► is not that different from six months ago.

00:39:42 ◼   ► - That's exactly where I stand on it.

00:39:44 ◼   ► I've used it a handful of times, mostly with Safari,

00:39:49 ◼   ► but it's just, I just don't think about it,

00:39:53 ◼   ► I just don't think about it in those times

00:39:57 ◼   ► when I'm working on the iPad.

00:39:58 ◼   ► Now, I am using the ability to have

00:40:00 ◼   ► multiple apps in SlideOver.

00:40:02 ◼   ► I really like that.

00:40:04 ◼   ► Most of the time I have like Tweetbot and Slack

00:40:07 ◼   ► in SlideOver and I can switch between them

00:40:09 ◼   ► while I'm working on something else,

00:40:11 ◼   ► that has really changed how I work on the iPad.

00:40:14 ◼   ► But the multiple windows hasn't made a big impact.

00:40:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, totally agree.

00:40:18 ◼   ► The SlideOver thing is by far my most used,

00:40:23 ◼   ► that and column view in files.

00:40:27 ◼   ► Those two are the most used new features for me.

00:40:29 ◼   ► Well, I mean, of course, if you don't count shortcuts,

00:40:33 ◼   ► maybe you should count shortcuts as a feature,

00:40:35 ◼   ► But in terms of non-shortcuts things,

00:40:39 ◼   ► slide over and column view files.

00:40:42 ◼   ► Those two I use a lot.

00:40:43 ◼   ► So yeah, Google Docs though.

00:40:47 ◼   ► I guess if you wanna do multiple windows for Google Docs

00:40:50 ◼   ► and you have an iPad,

00:40:51 ◼   ► you can use multiple Safari windows

00:40:54 ◼   ► and access Google Docs from the browser,

00:40:56 ◼   ► which is not perfect, but it does a good enough job.

00:41:03 ◼   ► Some of the controls are kind of weird.

00:41:05 ◼   ► They don't necessarily work well in Safari for iPad,

00:41:09 ◼   ► but they do work.

00:41:10 ◼   ► You can have lists and do indentation and highlights

00:41:15 ◼   ► and that kind of stuff.

00:41:16 ◼   ► And I guess you could do that.

00:41:19 ◼   ► I've been doing that myself.

00:41:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, Docs is the primary thing I want it for,

00:41:24 ◼   ► and I haven't done a lot of it in Safari,

00:41:28 ◼   ► but you're right, the basics seem to work just fine.

00:41:30 ◼   ► I mean, for my needs, creating show outlines,

00:41:32 ◼   ► It's basically bulleted list and some formatting.

00:41:34 ◼   ► It's nothing real fancy, you know,

00:41:38 ◼   ► but some of my big spreadsheets I use,

00:41:40 ◼   ► I haven't tried and I'd be a little hesitant to,

00:41:43 ◼   ► but I don't, I'm not ever in a situation

00:41:45 ◼   ► where I need like a spreadsheet

00:41:46 ◼   ► that's in Google Sheets up with something else

00:41:48 ◼   ► because those spreadsheets usually are big

00:41:50 ◼   ► and I want the maximum screen real estate dedicated to them.

00:41:55 ◼   ► Well, that is follow up.

00:41:59 ◼   ► We're gonna get into some Adobe stuff.

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00:43:11 ◼   ► All right, Federico, tell me about fonts on iOS

00:43:15 ◼   ► through Adobe Creative Cloud.

00:43:17 ◼   ► - Sure, obviously Adobe had a bunch of announcements.

00:43:19 ◼   ► This week they had their Adobe Max conference.

00:43:22 ◼   ► And as part of that, they've also been releasing

00:43:26 ◼   ► a few updates to various apps that they offer.

00:43:29 ◼   ► And specifically on iOS, they updated their Creative Cloud

00:43:34 ◼   ► app to support one of the new features of iOS and iPadOS 13,

00:43:40 ◼   ► which is installing custom fonts natively on your device

00:43:46 ◼   ► without having to do the certificate-based workarounds

00:43:53 ◼   ► that used to be, in the past, the only way

00:43:55 ◼   ► to install custom fonts.

00:43:57 ◼   ► So with the new Creative Cloud app,

00:43:59 ◼   ► you can use it for free.

00:44:02 ◼   ► And if you use it for free, you have access to 1,300 fonts.

00:44:07 ◼   ► So that's a lot of fonts that are available for free.

00:44:10 ◼   ► And you can open the app, you go to the font section,

00:44:12 ◼   ► and you can browse the, you know, called Adobe Fonts,

00:44:15 ◼   ► and you can search, you can select them,

00:44:17 ◼   ► you can preview them,

00:44:20 ◼   ► you can install multiple fonts at once.

00:44:22 ◼   ► And the way that it works is,

00:44:25 ◼   ► This is called, for developers, a font provider app.

00:44:29 ◼   ► So Creative Cloud is using the new font provider APIs

00:44:33 ◼   ► to bring up a native dialogue in iOS 13 that asks you,

00:44:39 ◼   ► do you really want to install these fonts?

00:44:40 ◼   ► And you confirm the process, and later you

00:44:43 ◼   ► can find those fonts in Settings.

00:44:45 ◼   ► So if you open the Settings app and you go to General Fonts,

00:44:50 ◼   ► you will see a list of all the fonts that you have installed,

00:44:54 ◼   ► as well as information about the font and the individual typefaces contained within the font.

00:45:00 ◼   ► So you can see the font manufacturer and the copyright and the file size and all that kind of stuff.

00:45:05 ◼   ► It's really impressive, especially when you drill down into the typeface preview.

00:45:10 ◼   ► So if you have different styles, like thin or bold or heavy, you can preview them all,

00:45:15 ◼   ► you can preview the entire character set, you can preview the standard Lorem Ipsum text.

00:45:21 ◼   ► it's really well done, it's very nice and the main advantage is

00:45:25 ◼   ► you don't have to deal with third-party

00:45:30 ◼   ► hacks anymore. So it used to be that in previous years before iOS 13 you would have to use something like Anyfont

00:45:38 ◼   ► to load

00:45:41 ◼   ► custom font files on your

00:45:43 ◼   ► in the Anyfont app and

00:45:45 ◼   ► install a certificate

00:45:48 ◼   ► via settings that basically made the font available system-wide.

00:45:54 ◼   ► This is roughly the same idea in that you do install a font file and you make it available

00:45:59 ◼   ► system-wide, but it's not based on having to use a certificate for that, which has other

00:46:05 ◼   ► security implications and all of that.

00:46:07 ◼   ► This is all done natively, it's handled by the Settings app, and when the font is installed,

00:46:13 ◼   ► It's made available by all other iPhone and iPad apps that use the native font picker.

00:46:19 ◼   ► So there's a font picker API, which has also been improved in iOS 13, and all the fonts

00:46:24 ◼   ► that you install in this case using Adobe Creative Cloud, they will be available in

00:46:29 ◼   ► apps like Pages or Jafs.

00:46:33 ◼   ► Anything that uses the native font picker gets access to fonts that you've installed

00:46:38 ◼   ► this way.

00:46:39 ◼   ► In addition to the 1300 fonts that you get for free, if you are a Creative Cloud subscriber,

00:46:46 ◼   ► you can use Typekit fonts with the Creative Cloud app for a total, once you combine those

00:46:53 ◼   ► two sources together, 17,000 fonts.

00:46:59 ◼   ► Now I don't know who would ever need to use 17,000.

00:47:05 ◼   ► Again, that's a thousand fonts.

00:47:08 ◼   ► you, I don't know, I mean, I'm sure there's someone who needs to use 17. Anyway, the point

00:47:15 ◼   ► is it's remarkable that you can install all these fonts via Creative Cloud. iOS doesn't

00:47:24 ◼   ► have the equivalent of, what's it called on the Mac, FontBook. Like a dedicated app for

00:47:32 ◼   ► managing installed fonts and previewing them and doing different tests with them. But it's

00:47:37 ◼   ► good enough, it's a good enough approximation of that in settings. You can remove fonts

00:47:43 ◼   ► at any time and of course when you, you know, due to the way that it's designed, fonts are

00:47:50 ◼   ► basically an extension of the app. So if you install a font and then you delete the app

00:47:56 ◼   ► that offers, that provides the font, the font is also gone. So if you install a font and

00:48:01 ◼   ► then delete Creative Cloud, you will no longer get access to those fonts. So just keep that

00:48:06 ◼   ► in mind, maybe stash Creative Cloud in a folder and forever leave it there. This is nice.

00:48:12 ◼   ► I was wondering what happened to font provider apps that Apple shut off at WWDC. This is

00:48:19 ◼   ► a great first example of that API. It's really impressive when you consider how these fonts,

00:48:26 ◼   ► you can now use them in Photoshop, also by Adobe. You can use them in any other app.

00:48:31 ◼   ► And this is a big deal for anybody who does, oh man, what's it called, like when you do

00:48:41 ◼   ► putting together magazines.

00:48:43 ◼   ► Like there's a word for that.

00:48:45 ◼   ► Like graphic design?

00:48:46 ◼   ► No, there's a different word.

00:48:48 ◼   ► There's a different word for that.

00:48:49 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:48:50 ◼   ► Layout work?

00:48:51 ◼   ► I don't know what you want.

00:48:52 ◼   ► Yeah, anyway, if you do things that require fonts and custom layouts, this is a big deal

00:48:59 ◼   ► because you can now do it on the iPad.

00:49:01 ◼   ► And so the fact that these funds show up system-wide in all apps that, yeah, page layout is probably

00:49:08 ◼   ► what I'm thinking of.

00:49:11 ◼   ► I think it's very nice.

00:49:12 ◼   ► I think it's a very nice feature.

00:49:14 ◼   ► It's done in an Apple way in terms of like security permissions and the fact that these

00:49:19 ◼   ► funds are basically extensions of their host apps.

00:49:24 ◼   ► I think it's very good.

00:49:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I downloaded it and played with it.

00:49:28 ◼   ► It blew my mind that Adobe doesn't support password managers for login.

00:49:33 ◼   ► So you just get a text field.

00:49:35 ◼   ► Come on.

00:49:37 ◼   ► You made an app that can install fonts.

00:49:39 ◼   ► You should be able to open one password for me.

00:49:42 ◼   ► But it's very similar to what you get on the Mac.

00:49:44 ◼   ► You can get links to all the apps and you have a bunch of tutorials and of course you

00:49:51 ◼   ► have your fonts but also your files.

00:49:54 ◼   ► So if you have a Creative Cloud account or subscription, you can keep like PSDs or Illustrator

00:50:00 ◼   ► like in Adobe's cloud and they're on your computers, all that's accessible on the iPad

00:50:05 ◼   ► as well.

00:50:06 ◼   ► It really ties iOS and the Mac a lot closer together.

00:50:12 ◼   ► And you know, what is cool about this is that Adobe, and we're gonna talk about about Photoshop

00:50:18 ◼   ► in a second.

00:50:19 ◼   ► They are sometimes pretty late to the game and there are sometimes coming in a little

00:50:25 ◼   ► week with their initial offering, but it's clear to me that they do think about iOS and

00:50:31 ◼   ► iPadOS as real platforms for people to create things on and that's cool, right?

00:50:36 ◼   ► Like it is cool that the iPad and the iPhone have access to these tools now and I think

00:50:41 ◼   ► Adobe is leaning into them harder than ever.

00:50:44 ◼   ► I'm still thinking about this, I'm sorry.

00:50:46 ◼   ► What's the name of the app that was on the Mac that allowed you to do page layouts?

00:50:53 ◼   ► QuarkXPress.

00:50:54 ◼   ► Quark, okay.

00:50:56 ◼   ► InDesign is Adobe's app.

00:50:58 ◼   ► Okay.

00:50:59 ◼   ► There was PageMaker back in the day.

00:51:05 ◼   ► All those sorts of apps.

00:51:06 ◼   ► I'm trying to see if desktop publishing, that's also probably a word that I was thinking of.

00:51:13 ◼   ► Microsoft Publisher.

00:51:14 ◼   ► There's all sorts of them.

00:51:16 ◼   ► Yeah, you know, they should--

00:51:17 ◼   ► I'm still waiting for--

00:51:19 ◼   ► again, probably never going to happen, honestly.

00:51:22 ◼   ► I really want to have something like iBooks Author on iPad,

00:51:26 ◼   ► especially now that we have custom fonts,

00:51:29 ◼   ► and we can do multiple windows, and there's files.

00:51:32 ◼   ► You can import assets from files from external drives.

00:51:35 ◼   ► You can do column viewing files.

00:51:38 ◼   ► I know that you can put together ebooks in pages,

00:51:43 ◼   ► But it's not like working with iBooks Author.

00:51:47 ◼   ► I worked with iBooks Author six years ago at this point

00:51:51 ◼   ► when I converted one of my stories,

00:51:54 ◼   ► the editorial review, to an iBook.

00:51:58 ◼   ► Used to be called iBooks, e-book,

00:52:01 ◼   ► built with iBooks Author.

00:52:03 ◼   ► And so to do all those fancy animations

00:52:05 ◼   ► and the interactive galleries and all of that,

00:52:08 ◼   ► I feel like I, it would be great to have

00:52:12 ◼   ► something like that again on iPad Pro,

00:52:15 ◼   ► especially now that you have the pencil

00:52:16 ◼   ► and all these new integrations and features

00:52:18 ◼   ► that have come out since 2013.

00:52:21 ◼   ► But then again, probably never gonna happen.

00:52:25 ◼   ► Because Apple updates pages a few times a year,

00:52:30 ◼   ► I struggle to imagine they wanna do a separate,

00:52:33 ◼   ► it's not even called iBooks anymore, so BookSolver.

00:52:38 ◼   ► I don't think it's happening, but it would be nice.

00:52:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, that app has not received

00:52:42 ◼   ► a lot of attention from Apple.

00:52:43 ◼   ► They've had a couple of updates to it,

00:52:44 ◼   ► but I've done projects in it too,

00:52:46 ◼   ► and it is pretty buggy and a big,

00:52:50 ◼   ► it's very resource intensive on the Mac,

00:52:52 ◼   ► like trying to create complex layouts.

00:52:55 ◼   ► Any Mac out of the sun will grind to a halt.

00:52:58 ◼   ► I think they oughta just roll that stuff into pages

00:53:01 ◼   ► and make iBooks author files a target,

00:53:04 ◼   ► and if you just wanna do EPUB, that's fine,

00:53:06 ◼   ► but if you wanna do more, you can,

00:53:08 ◼   ► 'cause that app is just going nowhere fast.

00:53:10 ◼   ► And the other hope I guess would be to wait for the folks at Affinity. You know they're

00:53:15 ◼   ► working on an Affinity publisher but it's desktop only so maybe in the future something

00:53:21 ◼   ► like that will come out for iPad. I know they're working, you know, they have Affinity Photo

00:53:27 ◼   ► which is both on Mac and iPad. They have the Illustrator version, what's it called? Affinity

00:53:35 ◼   ► else. Affinity Designer, maybe? Affinity Designer is their vector drawing app, and they also

00:53:42 ◼   ► have Affinity Publisher. I would love to see Affinity Publisher on iPad eventually.

00:53:45 ◼   ► Adobe also has shipped Photoshop for iPad, which we saw shown off, was that a year ago?

00:53:52 ◼   ► Yes, it was a year ago. I'm pretty sure that I was at the Apple event for the new iPad

00:54:00 ◼   ► Pro and Adobe was on stage showing off IP. Yeah, they were. They had the demo with the

00:54:07 ◼   ► crazy PSD weighing like multiple gigabytes and they were showing how the new iPad Pro was

00:54:13 ◼   ► scrolling multiple zoom levels in that PSD. Yeah, that was a year ago. And now the app is out on the

00:54:20 ◼   ► App Store. And it's not what people were expecting. There's been a sort of a mild controversy on

00:54:28 ◼   ► Twitter this week about how Photoshop on iPad is the first version of a long journey that

00:54:36 ◼   ► Adobe would like to be the real Photoshop for iPad in the end, but right now it's not.

00:54:45 ◼   ► And let me contextualize, it is the real Photoshop in the sense that this is not like a spinoff

00:54:50 ◼   ► of Photoshop, you know, we've had something like Photoshop Express on iOS before. This

00:54:56 ◼   ► This is THE Photoshop. It uses the same foundation and engine as desktop Photoshop. You can open

00:55:03 ◼   ► all of your cloud PSDs, which is this new format that Adobe has been using for the past

00:55:09 ◼   ► couple of years with Creative Cloud. All of your desktop PSDs will open on iPad with Photoshop.

00:55:16 ◼   ► The problem is, this is a huge project for Adobe, you know, to unify their engines and

00:55:26 ◼   ► their UI stack between the desktop and iPad.

00:55:31 ◼   ► And right now the issue is the iPad version doesn't have all the features that you have

00:55:37 ◼   ► on the desktop version of Photoshop.

00:55:41 ◼   ► I think Adobe explained this saying that right now the iPad version of Photoshop is focused

00:55:50 ◼   ► on compositing, masking and basic retouching.

00:55:56 ◼   ► Meaning that a lot of the advanced controls that, and I'm not a Photoshop user so it's

00:56:02 ◼   ► very likely that I'm getting my terminology wrong or I don't know the terminology at all.

00:56:06 ◼   ► But a lot of features that you have in Photoshop for desktop you don't have here, like canvas

00:56:12 ◼   ► rotation for example, "Still not here, supposedly coming soon."

00:56:16 ◼   ► Or subject selection, refining the edge refinement, all that stuff.

00:56:22 ◼   ► It's not on iPad.

00:56:24 ◼   ► But it's coming later.

00:56:26 ◼   ► And so far, this version of Photoshop is sort of stuck between this sort of being a companion

00:56:35 ◼   ► to Photoshop for desktop, but also wanting to be more. This Photoshop doesn't want to

00:56:41 ◼   ► be a companion forever. Adobe's goal, in their own words, is to actually have it be the real

00:56:48 ◼   ► Photoshop on iPad. They just need more time. The full Photoshop, if you will. Not real,

00:56:53 ◼   ► the full Photoshop. Right now, it's still a pretty impressive pro app for iPad. All

00:57:01 ◼   ► your PSDs will open. There's support for split view and slide over and keyboard shortcuts

00:57:08 ◼   ► but not multiple windows on iPad. It can export files as PNG, JPEG, PSD, TIFF. It does not

00:57:17 ◼   ► support RAW photos. So you cannot edit your RAW photos in Photoshop. So there's a bunch

00:57:22 ◼   ► of limitations like that. A lot of people were upset by this because we were all under

00:57:28 ◼   ► the impression following rumors and interviews that Adobe did over the past year and their

00:57:36 ◼   ► own presence on stage at the Apple event last year, we all thought that, oh yes, they're

00:57:42 ◼   ► going to bring the full Photoshop and iPad when it launches eventually.

00:57:46 ◼   ► And then we started getting the idea that this was not going to happen when Adobe opened

00:57:52 ◼   ► up the test flight beta a bit more to other users over the past few months, and users

00:57:57 ◼   ► started saying, "Look, this is not the full Photoshop. It's missing a bunch of features."

00:58:03 ◼   ► And it's been a year, so I feel like Adobe felt the need to at least launch this first

00:58:07 ◼   ► version on the App Store, especially to coincide with their own Adobe Max conference. I don't

00:58:15 ◼   ► have an opinion on this in the sense that I don't use Photoshop. I understand why people

00:58:22 ◼   ► are upset. I also understand how Photoshop is an application that's been around for 30

00:58:30 ◼   ► years, I want to say?

00:58:32 ◼   ► >> Yeah, forever.

00:58:33 ◼   ► >> I can only imagine how massive of an effort it must be to steer this ship in a completely

00:58:42 ◼   ► different direction. Like, to take this code base and modernize it for all kinds of computers

00:58:50 ◼   ► and form factors and to have the cloud integration in the middle. Like, I get it. I mean, it

00:58:56 ◼   ► takes time for simpler apps to reach feature parity between Mac and iPad. Imagine Photoshop.

00:59:07 ◼   ► And I'm just glad that they're actually committed to this. You know, I don't think this is the

00:59:12 ◼   ► kind of project that Adobe will just say, "Yeah, we're going to try and see what it's

00:59:19 ◼   ► like and then they will eventually abandon it. No, this is the full, the real Photoshop,

00:59:23 ◼   ► the full Photoshop. It ties into your Creative Cloud subscription. They have provided a roadmap

00:59:29 ◼   ► for features that will be coming next. And, you know, Adobe's goal is, you know, John

00:59:34 ◼   ► Gruber wrote about this a few weeks ago. They are, you know, it's a massive undertaking

00:59:40 ◼   ► that consists of unifying the Photoshop UI and engine across all platforms to have one

00:59:49 ◼   ► Photoshop that works everywhere. So that's not what it is today, but I'm very confident

00:59:55 ◼   ► that it'll be in the future. And I think that's very important for the iPad Pro as a platform.

01:00:01 ◼   ► It's such an obvious device for this sort of work, especially when you think about the

01:00:06 ◼   ► Apple Pencil and what it can do and Adobe is not the first to this. I mean we

01:00:10 ◼   ► rallied off a bunch of third-party apps that compete in the space and who all do

01:00:15 ◼   ► a really good job but the truth is most people just want to use the Adobe

01:00:19 ◼   ► products they're already used to. They don't want to switch to Affinity or

01:00:23 ◼   ► switch to you know Pixelmator Pro or something like that when they've been

01:00:27 ◼   ► using Adobe for 20 years in their job and as the iPad becomes more powerful

01:00:33 ◼   ► and a more likely laptop replacement

01:00:36 ◼   ► for more and more people, they've just gotta be there.

01:00:39 ◼   ► And I think you're right, they're in this for the long haul,

01:00:42 ◼   ► and I can't imagine the work that it must take,

01:00:45 ◼   ► but it's work that I think is good and beneficial

01:00:49 ◼   ► for their users and for Adobe,

01:00:51 ◼   ► 'cause they don't wanna be stuck on the traditional PC

01:00:54 ◼   ► as it gives way to devices like the iPad and the Surface

01:00:58 ◼   ► and things like that.

01:01:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, and this is a real time follow-up.

01:01:06 ◼   ► I was told on Twitter that Affinity have said

01:01:09 ◼   ► that publisher is coming to iPad next year, so 2020.

01:01:13 ◼   ► 2020 should be fun for,

01:01:15 ◼   ► I have a feeling that 2020 is gonna be fun

01:01:17 ◼   ► for iPad Pro software.

01:01:18 ◼   ► And that's because in addition to this announcement

01:01:22 ◼   ► and Adobe being committed to Photoshop,

01:01:26 ◼   ► by next year, a lot of developers, a lot of companies

01:01:29 ◼   ► will have had a lot of time with iPadOS.

01:01:33 ◼   ► And the new Files app and the new APIs.

01:01:35 ◼   ► And there's probably gonna be new iPad Pro hardware.

01:01:39 ◼   ► So that's exciting.

01:01:40 ◼   ► I think it's gonna be,

01:01:41 ◼   ► I have a feeling it's gonna be a pretty good iPad year, 2020.

01:01:44 ◼   ► You know, new decade and all that.

01:01:46 ◼   ► The iPad is gonna be 10 next year, by the way.

01:01:49 ◼   ► - Whoa.

01:01:50 ◼   ► - Yep, January 27, 2010.

01:01:53 ◼   ► That's 10 years of iPad.

01:01:56 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, that's wild.

01:01:58 ◼   ► feels like yesterday what happened yeah I don't know yeah Adobe has also shown

01:02:02 ◼   ► off illustrator it's gonna come to the iPad speaking of speaking of 2020 the

01:02:08 ◼   ► the verge has a nice article walking through a bunch of the features and I

01:02:13 ◼   ► think illustrator is a really good example of an app that it's probably

01:02:16 ◼   ► gonna it has a potential to be better on the iPad than on the desktop because of

01:02:20 ◼   ► the pencil in particular you know where you're doing really fine drawing work as

01:02:26 ◼   ► A lot of people use things like Wacom tablets

01:02:30 ◼   ► on the Mac or the PC or other sort of stylus inputs.

01:02:35 ◼   ► And to have that just natively on the iPad is a big deal.

01:02:37 ◼   ► And so I'm looking forward to Illustrator.

01:02:39 ◼   ► I don't use Illustrator much, but I

01:02:41 ◼   ► would imagine that people who do, this could be a big deal.

01:02:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:45 ◼   ► The Verge has a few screenshots and GIFs showing Illustrator

01:02:50 ◼   ► on iPad in action.

01:02:51 ◼   ► It looks good.

01:02:52 ◼   ► There's a lot of controls, a lot of floating palettes,

01:02:56 ◼   ► advanced controls, which I always like to see.

01:02:58 ◼   ► Looks like a desktop app being ported to the iPad

01:03:02 ◼   ► and supporting the pencil and touch.

01:03:04 ◼   ► Great, yeah, this is great.

01:03:06 ◼   ► Yeah, this is exactly what we need on iPad Pro.

01:03:09 ◼   ► So also 2020, so very nice.

01:03:13 ◼   ► - Coming, and I think these apps benefit from the iPad Pro

01:03:17 ◼   ► being the 11 inch or the 12.9.

01:03:20 ◼   ► But remember, the iPad Air, the iPad,

01:03:22 ◼   ► even the iPad Mini has pencil support now.

01:03:25 ◼   ► So you could run these on those devices as well.

01:03:28 ◼   ► I think when we say iPad Pro,

01:03:30 ◼   ► we think about that as sort of the most powerful versions

01:03:35 ◼   ► of these things, but these will run

01:03:36 ◼   ► on the regular iPads as well.

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01:04:56 ◼   ► So 2019, I think in hindsight, will be a year where we think a lot about Apple's software

01:05:02 ◼   ► quality.

01:05:03 ◼   ► I thought you were going to go with the year of Steven again.

01:05:07 ◼   ► It is also the year of Steven, but it's also the year of software quality issues at Apple.

01:05:11 ◼   ► How fitting for the year of Steven.

01:05:17 ◼   ► My next rookie.

01:05:18 ◼   ► I predict bugs in Apple's next software release.

01:05:21 ◼   ► And I wanted to take a little time

01:05:23 ◼   ► and talk about that with you,

01:05:24 ◼   ► because we're sort of done with the release cycle,

01:05:27 ◼   ► right, like you said, there's new betas for 13.3

01:05:30 ◼   ► and watchOS 6.2 and whatever else.

01:05:33 ◼   ► So we're kind of out of the phase

01:05:35 ◼   ► of these being new releases.

01:05:37 ◼   ► Things are beginning to settle down.

01:05:39 ◼   ► I wanted to ask you a few questions about this.

01:05:41 ◼   ► I guess I wanna start with,

01:05:43 ◼   ► has this year really been worse than previous years?

01:05:47 ◼   ► It's always easy to think about the past

01:05:49 ◼   ► with rose colored glasses, but you're in this stuff

01:05:52 ◼   ► every day a lot more than most people.

01:05:54 ◼   ► You write these reviews, you review apps,

01:05:56 ◼   ► you spend time with these products.

01:05:59 ◼   ► Do you think 2019 is worse than previous years?

01:06:04 ◼   ► - That's a tough question because everyone's experience

01:06:08 ◼   ► is different, and that's because everyone is using

01:06:11 ◼   ► different hardware with different setups

01:06:12 ◼   ► and different apps personally.

01:06:15 ◼   ► So that's all that I can offer, my personal context.

01:06:18 ◼   ► I don't think it's been as bad as, say, 2013 or 2014 with iOS 7 and iOS 8, or even iOS 11 in 2017.

01:06:29 ◼   ► I think those years have been worse, specifically as far as iOS, so iPhone and iPad are concerned.

01:06:38 ◼   ► I think 2019, the problem is...

01:06:42 ◼   ► I see two main problems.

01:06:45 ◼   ► First, we come from the year of iOS 12, so 2018, which has been a pretty good year in

01:06:54 ◼   ► terms of software stability on iOS. Apple very publicly said in iOS 12 we're going to

01:07:02 ◼   ► focus on performance and stability and getting rid of bugs and, you know, polishing the whole

01:07:08 ◼   ► thing. They postponed, they didn't officially confirm this, but we know that they postponed

01:07:14 ◼   ► certain features for 2019 because they wanted to focus on improving the system last year.

01:07:22 ◼   ► So coming from that, we're now met with all these problems and it does affect our perspective

01:07:34 ◼   ► because we thought that Apollo had gotten better, but it turns out that improving software

01:07:40 ◼   ► is not forever. It doesn't necessarily mean that you did it once, well then you're set.

01:07:46 ◼   ► It means that it's a continuous effort. You gotta, it's like a garden. You gotta take

01:07:53 ◼   ► care of the garden every year, in this case, every month. It's not like because Apple fixed

01:07:59 ◼   ► a bunch of bugs in iOS 12, then they're good. It means that they were good last year, and

01:08:04 ◼   ► this year you add features, well, you add more bugs. And that's the second problem.

01:08:09 ◼   ► The second problem I see is that, coming from iOS 12, Apple maybe felt some kind of pressure

01:08:18 ◼   ► to overcompensate for all the functionalities that they didn't ship last year.

01:08:24 ◼   ► Combine that with the fact that the Apple ecosystem is now bigger than ever.

01:08:30 ◼   ► You have the iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, Mac, ARKit, CarPlay, HomePod, AirPods, and Apple

01:08:39 ◼   ► TV.

01:08:41 ◼   ► All those products, if you combine that with the need to overcompensate for 2018, the whole

01:08:49 ◼   ► situation is basically compounded and you have more features on all kinds of platforms

01:08:56 ◼   ► and you introduce bugs.

01:08:58 ◼   ► Right?

01:08:59 ◼   ► And if you, and I'm guessing that this is really challenging for me to talk about because

01:09:05 ◼   ► I've never worked in a company, right? And this is where Michael would be useful to have

01:09:14 ◼   ► in this discussion. He's worked at a company, he has experience with dealing with managers

01:09:19 ◼   ► and multiple levels and layers of management, what it's like to handle communications in

01:09:24 ◼   ► that kind of cooperation. I don't have that kind of context. I don't have that kind of

01:09:29 ◼   ► experience. But I want to say that there must have been, based on some conversations that

01:09:36 ◼   ► I had months ago, you know, you have a feature that's ready to ship. You cannot hold it any

01:09:43 ◼   ► longer. You just, you know, features that have been ready for two years, it's time to

01:09:47 ◼   ► release them. And so if anything, I feel like the main problem this year has been finding

01:09:55 ◼   ► this balance between... we have all these platforms that we gotta take care of, but

01:10:01 ◼   ► we also have these internal and external pressures from the press, from users, to release new

01:10:08 ◼   ► features, to send a message, or because it's features that people actually need. And it's

01:10:14 ◼   ► hard to balance that. It's been hard for Apple to balance that, to have the same attention

01:10:19 ◼   ► to focus and stability that they had last year with releasing new features and new functionalities

01:10:26 ◼   ► at the same time for seven, eight platforms. It's crazy. And so, and in addition to that,

01:10:33 ◼   ► I also want to add that we've seen historically and even just last month, how Apple is still

01:10:42 ◼   ► the company that when new hardware needs to ship, the software needs to be ready in whatever

01:10:50 ◼   ► state it is. You know, the iPhone 11 and 11 Pro launched with 13 and 13.1 was ready to

01:10:58 ◼   ► go a few days later. So it's a bunch of different issues. I don't think there's a single answer.

01:11:06 ◼   ► believe anybody who has a single answer for this kind of stuff. It's never... I wish it

01:11:12 ◼   ► were that easy to have a single answer like "it happened because X or Y". It's not like

01:11:18 ◼   ► that. I think it's a combination of factors, maybe some of them, some of the ones that

01:11:24 ◼   ► I just mentioned, but my wish... and I think Rene Ritchie did a video on this a few weeks

01:11:31 ◼   ► ago and I think he also mentioned this Steven, the idea even though I wouldn't like it right

01:11:37 ◼   ► because my work depends on, well not depends, but I take advantage of these big software

01:11:49 ◼   ► releases right with my reviews but I think Apple should consider having and publicly

01:11:55 ◼   ► state that they are going to have a more staggered release of their software updates going forward.

01:12:05 ◼   ► To not do these big all-at-once software updates that, you know, on Tuesday you have six different

01:12:15 ◼   ► OSs dropping all at the same time. Because, you know, you're just begging for issues and

01:12:21 ◼   ► problems to come up at that point. So I know that it's a beautiful thing to have these

01:12:27 ◼   ► events, right? New version of iOS with 200 new features. But I do wonder if Apple, at

01:12:35 ◼   ► their current scale and at their current exposure to the press and to millions of users, and

01:12:42 ◼   ► with all these platforms and services and devices that they have, I wonder and I ask,

01:12:47 ◼   ► Can they do that anymore?

01:12:51 ◼   ► It feels like you reach a certain point, such a massive company, such a massive line of

01:12:57 ◼   ► products, you cannot do the big event with a massive software release all at once.

01:13:06 ◼   ► And you gotta find a better balance between promising features coming in a new version

01:13:12 ◼   ► of the OS in September and trying to be a little more realistic and saying well maybe

01:13:16 ◼   ► actually this is more of a roadmap and this feature is coming in April or March.

01:13:21 ◼   ► You know.

01:13:22 ◼   ► I mean that big release cycle is really an echo of the 90s or even you know the late

01:13:30 ◼   ► 80s where you had these big software releases and they had to be big because you needed

01:13:36 ◼   ► people to buy them because they had to get them on disks in stores.

01:13:40 ◼   ► Right.

01:13:41 ◼   ► about on the the Mac OS side for a second, you know, going from 10.2 to 10.3, you had

01:13:48 ◼   ► to go buy DVD and it was a big deal, right? And, and now it's annual and they're smaller

01:13:53 ◼   ► until they're not like Catalina and people get mad that all their apps broke, because

01:13:57 ◼   ► they've been conditioned into thinking they're smaller releases. And I think it is time for

01:14:02 ◼   ► Apple to consider if that's necessary or not. Because a it's a historic thing. And maybe

01:14:10 ◼   ► they're just doing because they've always done it. But another factor is the competitive landscape

01:14:15 ◼   ► has changed and Android is still on a annual release cycle roughly, but at least the last

01:14:23 ◼   ► several versions have been smaller and smaller as Google does more through Google Play services.

01:14:29 ◼   ► So they're not updating Gmail as part of the next version of Android, they're updating Gmail when

01:14:33 ◼   ► Gmail is ready and they push an update to the Gmail app whenever it's good to go. They've

01:14:39 ◼   ► they've decoupled features from the OS.

01:14:42 ◼   ► And Apple could certainly do that.

01:14:43 ◼   ► Like why do we have to wait for a major release

01:14:46 ◼   ► for a new mail feature?

01:14:47 ◼   ► Well, that's a bad example

01:14:48 ◼   ► 'cause Apple never adds features to mail,

01:14:50 ◼   ► but Safari, something they care about.

01:14:53 ◼   ► - No, but that's a very good point.

01:14:54 ◼   ► And I think we're starting to see hints of that.

01:14:58 ◼   ► If you look at Apple Music, right,

01:14:59 ◼   ► if you look at the Music app,

01:15:02 ◼   ► aside from the time-synced lyrics

01:15:05 ◼   ► and the context menus in iOS 13,

01:15:08 ◼   ► It is essentially unchanged as a native client from last year. But it is completely different

01:15:16 ◼   ► from last year. And how is that possible? Well, that's because over the past 12 months,

01:15:22 ◼   ► Apple has added new sections, new playlists to Apple Music as a service. And because they

01:15:29 ◼   ► added as a service, the app is different. You see new content, you see new sections,

01:15:34 ◼   ► see new initiatives. Even though the app didn't get an update, like the binary, you know,

01:15:41 ◼   ► the app itself is mostly the same. The experience of using Apple Music is radically different

01:15:47 ◼   ► from 12 months ago or 18 months ago. And that is exactly what you're seeing. Like they're

01:15:53 ◼   ► rolling out updates to the service. And I think as Apple gets more and more in the services

01:16:01 ◼   ► game like with Apple Music and TV Plus and, you know, news, and I wonder if they should

01:16:08 ◼   ► do this more and more. I mean, even iCloud Drive, why do I need to keep waiting for files

01:16:15 ◼   ► to get an update if I want to get new iCloud Drive features? So that idea of Apple moving

01:16:22 ◼   ► to becoming a services company also means that a service should be something that is

01:16:28 ◼   ► continually offered to users and continually improved for users. And so what I've seen

01:16:34 ◼   ► with Apple Music, I agree with you. I would like to start seeing with other apps as well.

01:16:40 ◼   ► So I don't know.

01:16:42 ◼   ► And Apple doesn't have to be as competitive with Windows and Android as it once did, right?

01:16:50 ◼   ► Like if Android is not getting these big updates every year, Apple doesn't have to play defense

01:16:56 ◼   ► is hard. You know, in iOS, two, three, four, five, and six, seven, those early days, that

01:17:01 ◼   ► was true, because Android was getting much better at a pretty fast pace, and they had

01:17:08 ◼   ► to keep up. But the reality is that all of these OSes, mobile or desktop, all have basically

01:17:13 ◼   ► the same features at this point. They're all feature complete, right? Like, there are things,

01:17:18 ◼   ► of course, we want added to iOS and Mac OS, but we're well past the days of it doesn't

01:17:23 ◼   ► and have cut, copy, and paste, right?

01:17:25 ◼   ► They are mature platforms now, and as platforms mature,

01:17:29 ◼   ► you can slow down on the release cycle

01:17:34 ◼   ► if it means that you're willing to trade a little time

01:17:38 ◼   ► for things like stability.

01:17:40 ◼   ► And Apple, they did that last year,

01:17:42 ◼   ► but it was still an annual release,

01:17:43 ◼   ► and so I think you're right when you say

01:17:45 ◼   ► this year's a little bit of a knee-jerk reaction

01:17:47 ◼   ► of oh, we gotta add all this stuff back in

01:17:49 ◼   ► 'cause last year was quiet.

01:17:51 ◼   ► I think the reality is most people who buy a new iPhone

01:17:54 ◼   ► or hit update once a year or whenever it comes out,

01:17:58 ◼   ► they're not counting those features, right?

01:18:00 ◼   ► They're not talking to their friends about,

01:18:03 ◼   ► oh my gosh, iOS 12 is so quiet.

01:18:04 ◼   ► Look, iOS 13 is quiet too.

01:18:06 ◼   ► What's going on in Cupertino, right?

01:18:07 ◼   ► That's our world.

01:18:09 ◼   ► But that's not, the bulk of those billion active devices

01:18:13 ◼   ► Apple has, those people don't think that way.

01:18:18 ◼   ► But they do notice when things are buggy.

01:18:21 ◼   ► They do notice that when you're in iMessage,

01:18:22 ◼   ► the keyboard goes away.

01:18:24 ◼   ► Or when you open the shortcuts app,

01:18:26 ◼   ► all your shortcuts are gone,

01:18:27 ◼   ► or your battery life is really bad.

01:18:29 ◼   ► They do notice the downside.

01:18:31 ◼   ► And I think Apple needs to be willing to sacrifice

01:18:36 ◼   ► a little bit of praise from the people who want new features

01:18:40 ◼   ► in a trade with the stability and the security

01:18:45 ◼   ► that people want and demand every day,

01:18:48 ◼   ► that everyday people demand.

01:18:49 ◼   ► And I, I think I was 13 could be that tipping point.

01:18:53 ◼   ► I don't know what I'm a little afraid of is that I was 14 will be like,

01:18:58 ◼   ► I was 12 that they're going to pull back on features and they're going to fix

01:19:02 ◼   ► the things and make it more stable.

01:19:03 ◼   ► But then I was 15 and two years will be like this year.

01:19:07 ◼   ► And they're on this like weird pendulum swinging back and forth.

01:19:10 ◼   ► And that's not good for anybody.

01:19:12 ◼   ► It's not good for users.

01:19:14 ◼   ► It's not good for those, those of us in the press.

01:19:17 ◼   ► And it's not good for the developers and designers

01:19:19 ◼   ► at Apple working on this stuff, right?

01:19:21 ◼   ► I think about those people who,

01:19:24 ◼   ► and don't get me wrong, I don't ever temper my thoughts

01:19:27 ◼   ► on Apple software or hardware,

01:19:28 ◼   ► considering the feelings of people who work on it.

01:19:31 ◼   ► That's not my job.

01:19:32 ◼   ► My job is talking about products.

01:19:34 ◼   ► But in an environment where you are rushing around,

01:19:39 ◼   ► fixing a bunch of bugs for three months,

01:19:40 ◼   ► and then you have to move on to the next new feature,

01:19:42 ◼   ► leaving bugs open and undone,

01:19:45 ◼   ► That's not a sustainable way to run a software organization either, I don't think.

01:19:49 ◼   ► Right? People are going to get burned out and frustrated at their jobs and they

01:19:52 ◼   ► can't do a job well done.

01:19:55 ◼   ► And Apple should be concerned about that too.

01:19:57 ◼   ► Is that fair?

01:19:59 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so. I think it is fair.

01:20:02 ◼   ► I do want to address this idea that I've seen mentioned by a few people on Twitter

01:20:08 ◼   ► lately that Apple should fire Greg Federighi or that Greg Federighi should be held

01:20:13 ◼   ► responsible for these issues.

01:20:15 ◼   ► And, first of all, I think there's this sort of strange obsession that some people have,

01:20:22 ◼   ► you know, this idea of the sort of the cinematic firing of somebody, you know, trying to find

01:20:30 ◼   ► a single responsible individual for software issues. You know, yes, we found the person

01:20:37 ◼   ► and we fired the person. And, you know, just because you fired somebody doesn't mean that

01:20:42 ◼   ► the problems are gone or that a solution has been achieved. And like all the, you know,

01:20:52 ◼   ► we could talk about how in conversations that we had, usually at WWDC, Craig Federighi seems

01:21:01 ◼   ► to be a pretty well respected and beloved individual at Apple. And, you know, we could

01:21:07 ◼   ► talk about how most engineers speak in high praise of Federighi because he's actually

01:21:16 ◼   ► an engineer.

01:21:17 ◼   ► Yeah, he's one of them. He came up through the organization, right? He is one of them.

01:21:22 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. So it's one of the, you know, every time that I, you know, talk to somebody

01:21:28 ◼   ► who works at Apple and the topic of, you know, what's it like working with Craig comes up.

01:21:36 ◼   ► I always get the sense that, you know, that Kurt Federighi fundamentally understands the

01:21:42 ◼   ► issues with a specific feature or a project because it gets down to, you know, to the

01:21:48 ◼   ► nitty gritty of an issue. Like, he understands code. He understands what it's like to build

01:21:53 ◼   ► software, which is not something that you could say for all managers, you know, not

01:21:58 ◼   ► to name any names, but I think it's very easy to get an idea of which executives at Apple

01:22:02 ◼   ► understand code and, well, you know, the ones that do not. But I guess the main idea of

01:22:10 ◼   ► firing the manager and expecting the problem to be fixed, there are situations where you

01:22:17 ◼   ► do need to replace an executive. I'm sure, you know, that's the case, has been the case

01:22:25 ◼   ► and will be the case at Apple. I don't think in this specific instance of Apple having

01:22:34 ◼   ► a software quality ongoing problem, I don't think it would be the solution to... Yes,

01:22:45 ◼   ► Craig should be held responsible because he's the executive in charge of all things software.

01:22:52 ◼   ► For all the issues that we've seen, I think we should also remember, and I mean, no way,

01:22:58 ◼   ► no, I, I, it's really, it's really challenging to have this discussion without being accused of

01:23:07 ◼   ► being an apologist. So I'm just going for it, whatever. I don't care. I know that, you know,

01:23:12 ◼   ► my perspective is what it is, but I think for all the bugs and issues that we've seen,

01:23:19 ◼   ► I think we should give credit where it's due. I think it's pretty remarkable that Apple can manage

01:23:26 ◼   ► all of these devices in a single ecosystem with the kind of integration that they have.

01:23:30 ◼   ► I don't... and I think we should, you know, among many other people, the executive currently in

01:23:40 ◼   ► charge of Apple software, we should give credit to that, that you can use an assistant on your watch

01:23:48 ◼   ► or on a TV or on a smart speaker, yes it's not perfect, I don't think it's as catastrophic

01:23:57 ◼   ► as some people make it out to be. That's my perspective, I may be wrong, you're free to

01:24:02 ◼   ► say that I'm an apologist, I don't care, but I think these discussions, when I see them on

01:24:09 ◼   ► Twitter, in the past I used to interact and engage with those, these days I just pass by.

01:24:17 ◼   ► But I don't think taking things to the extreme is necessarily useful to this conversation.

01:24:24 ◼   ► And that also goes the other way around. I don't think apologizing for everything that Apple does

01:24:29 ◼   ► is any good, honestly. I think the truth is complicated. It's this middle ground of

01:24:40 ◼   ► thousands of shades of gray. And unless you work at Apple, you probably don't have a good sense

01:24:46 ◼   ► of what, you know, what is even, you know, the truth of the, of this conversation. Nobody

01:24:52 ◼   ► knows. But, um, I think these extremes of Craig, Frederick, you should be fired or,

01:25:00 ◼   ► you know, Apple is perfect. They essentially moot points that contribute nothing to the

01:25:07 ◼   ► conversation except for the biases of the people who bring up these arguments. Um, so

01:25:15 ◼   ► I disagree with the notion of "let's fire Craig Federighi and see what happens" because

01:25:19 ◼   ► it's just the equivalent of throwing executive spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks.

01:25:25 ◼   ► Yes, let's replace the guy in charge.

01:25:27 ◼   ► Maybe things will get better.

01:25:28 ◼   ► No, turns out they will not get better because now you gotta train all your engineers to

01:25:33 ◼   ► report to a different person who has a different management style.

01:25:36 ◼   ► You know, we'll never get to the bottom of this.

01:25:39 ◼   ► And if he is as popular as he seems on the inside, getting rid of him isn't going to

01:25:45 ◼   ► to do anything for morale.

01:25:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, because in all of this--

01:25:48 ◼   ► - You're gonna have people upset.

01:25:49 ◼   ► - Exactly, in all of this, you also gotta remember,

01:25:51 ◼   ► these are people writing code and reporting to their boss.

01:25:55 ◼   ► They're not like algorithms spitting out code

01:25:58 ◼   ► on a daily basis.

01:26:00 ◼   ► There are people that have relationship with their manager

01:26:02 ◼   ► and the manager reports to Craig, and it's complicated, man.

01:26:07 ◼   ► It's not, don't never believe the hot takes on Twitter.

01:26:13 ◼   ► That's my conclusion.

01:26:14 ◼   ► They're never accurate, they're never true, and they're useless.

01:26:19 ◼   ► So there's that.

01:26:20 ◼   ► It's good life advice.

01:26:21 ◼   ► If Apple were to move to this cycle that looked like, you know, WWDC is really a roadmap for

01:26:28 ◼   ► the upcoming year, like René pitches in that video, how do they get there?

01:26:33 ◼   ► What does that actually look like?

01:26:35 ◼   ► It comes with a clear roadmap at WWDC.

01:26:42 ◼   ► It entails more timely documentation for developers who are building features for these multiple

01:26:53 ◼   ► platforms. I think it is absurd to be in a situation like we've been this summer with

01:27:01 ◼   ► multiple APIs for iOS 13 and iPadOS 13 or shortcuts without any documentation until

01:27:10 ◼   ► September. I think that's just not ideal, right? It's not a situation you want to put

01:27:19 ◼   ► developers in. But yeah, there should be a roadmap. And I know that Apple is maybe institutionally

01:27:28 ◼   ► against the idea of a clear roadmap, but I also think that it's time for a change. Like,

01:27:35 ◼   ► you cannot possibly expect to keep doing this forever, this big September release. And then

01:27:41 ◼   ► you announce something and journalists talk about it, like, I don't know, iCloud folder

01:27:47 ◼   ► sharing or shortcuts on the watch or the HomePod multi-user support, whatever. And then later

01:27:54 ◼   ► you gotta backtrack and say, "Oh no, this is coming in the spring." Find a balance in

01:28:02 ◼   ► the features that you want to prioritize and provide developers, even with a rough roadmap.

01:28:07 ◼   ► This is coming in September, this is coming later in the fall, this is coming next year

01:28:13 ◼   ► in the spring. Even just that would help. And have more timely documentation with more

01:28:20 ◼   ► examples. We could talk about improving the whole Apple bug reporter system, but that's

01:28:29 ◼   ► another, like we don't have any, another two hours to talk about that. But I think the

01:28:35 ◼   ► primary idea would be, it's got to be a roadmap. It doesn't, as much as Apple appreciates its

01:28:44 ◼   ► culture of secrecy, it's got to be the opposite of secrecy. It has to be a roadmap. It has

01:28:51 ◼   ► to be a series of steps for developers to know when can I build a feature that takes

01:28:57 ◼   ► advantage of this API. When should I expect this functionality to become possible for

01:29:03 ◼   ► me? Because otherwise you're leaving developers hanging for the whole summer in hope that,

01:29:09 ◼   ► you know, yeah, maybe this feature is coming. Maybe not. I don't know. That cannot, you

01:29:16 ◼   ► know, that's not sustainable and it's not a healthy environment for developer community,

01:29:21 ◼   ► I think.

01:29:22 ◼   ► Agreed. Well, we'll see what happens. I hope that Apple is using this cycle to really consider

01:29:30 ◼   ► what it should do in the future. Because even if it may not be the worst cycle ever,

01:29:37 ◼   ► it seems like it is the loudest cycle in terms of bugs. And in a way that's more important, right?

01:29:45 ◼   ► If more people are noticing and complaining, even if technically there are fewer crashes across

01:29:51 ◼   ► the systems, you know, and Apple can look at all that.

01:29:54 ◼   ► The feelings in the community are so strong this year

01:29:58 ◼   ► that may override any hard empirical data.

01:30:01 ◼   ► All right, we are going to talk a little bit

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01:31:52 ◼   ► So I want to talk about Apple TV Plus, the content, but before we get there, I want to

01:31:56 ◼   ► talk about Apple TV, the app, like the service level.

01:32:02 ◼   ► We've heard a bunch from listeners about hiccup streaming for Myke.

01:32:07 ◼   ► Apple TV said that he couldn't watch anything in his country, even though Apple TV Plus

01:32:11 ◼   ► is available in the UK.

01:32:14 ◼   ► I've had issues where pausing something on the Apple TV

01:32:17 ◼   ► streaming from TV Plus will kick me out to the home screen.

01:32:20 ◼   ► Like it won't remember where I paused it.

01:32:23 ◼   ► Have you had any issues like this?

01:32:25 ◼   ► - Fortunately, nope.

01:32:27 ◼   ► Nope.

01:32:28 ◼   ► - Nice.

01:32:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm one of the lucky ones, I guess.

01:32:32 ◼   ► - Are you watching on an Apple TV hardware unit?

01:32:35 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:32:36 ◼   ► - The names are ridiculous.

01:32:37 ◼   ► - The Apple TV box, the Apple TV 4K

01:32:40 ◼   ► is where I'm watching Apple TV Plus content

01:32:43 ◼   ► with the TV app.

01:32:44 ◼   ► Yes.

01:32:45 ◼   ► I know the names are questionable.

01:32:49 ◼   ► - Confusing. - Yes.

01:32:50 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:32:51 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:32:52 ◼   ► I saw a post that, by Dustin Curtis about the names.

01:32:56 ◼   ► I'll put that in the show notes.

01:32:58 ◼   ► Just go read that, it's really funny.

01:33:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know that it makes,

01:33:04 ◼   ► I guess it makes some sort of sense

01:33:05 ◼   ► in its own twisted logic that it's an Apple TV box

01:33:08 ◼   ► and there's an Apple TV app and the service is Apple TV+.

01:33:11 ◼   ► but when you spell it out together, it is funny.

01:33:14 ◼   ► And it is confusing.

01:33:15 ◼   ► Maybe there should be different names

01:33:19 ◼   ► for the different products.

01:33:21 ◼   ► - I'm using the Apple TV, the 1080 version.

01:33:26 ◼   ► I don't have a 4K television,

01:33:27 ◼   ► and I have not experienced TV+ on Roku

01:33:32 ◼   ► or Samsung TV or anything else.

01:33:36 ◼   ► I'd be curious to hear from listeners

01:33:38 ◼   ► if you are using it on third-party hardware

01:33:40 ◼   ► how that's been.

01:33:41 ◼   ► So let us know, I'd love to hear that,

01:33:42 ◼   ► and maybe we can talk about that next week.

01:33:44 ◼   ► - I can actually try that.

01:33:45 ◼   ► I have a Samsung television with the Apple TV app.

01:33:47 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

01:33:48 ◼   ► - So I should-- - Follow up.

01:33:49 ◼   ► - I should try that.

01:33:50 ◼   ► - Let us know. - I will follow up.

01:33:51 ◼   ► - I mean, hopefully it's exactly the same experience,

01:33:54 ◼   ► but with a better remote.

01:33:55 ◼   ► - It should be the same.

01:33:56 ◼   ► Well, the remote of the Samsung TV is not good, man.

01:34:00 ◼   ► - Pretty bad.

01:34:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, but no issues for me so far.

01:34:05 ◼   ► I've only watched on the Apple TV, so I haven't,

01:34:07 ◼   ► I don't watch TV shows on my phone.

01:34:10 ◼   ► Sometimes watching on my iPad, but not this time.

01:34:13 ◼   ► - So let's talk about the shows that we have seen.

01:34:16 ◼   ► And I'm gonna say at this point

01:34:18 ◼   ► that we may spoil something about these shows.

01:34:22 ◼   ► So be warned that we're gonna fire the spoiler horn

01:34:26 ◼   ► borrowed from our friend Jason.

01:34:27 ◼   ► And after that, you're on your own if we spoil a show.

01:34:31 ◼   ► We're gonna try not to, but it's probably inevitable.

01:34:33 ◼   ► So that's just how it is.

01:34:35 ◼   ► (dramatic music)

01:34:40 ◼   ► So what have you seen so far?

01:34:41 ◼   ► - So I'm all caught up on the three episodes

01:34:43 ◼   ► of The Morning Show and I watched the first episode

01:34:46 ◼   ► of For All Mankind last night.

01:34:49 ◼   ► I still have to watch See.

01:34:51 ◼   ► - I've only seen For All Mankind.

01:34:55 ◼   ► I saw all three episodes.

01:34:57 ◼   ► Mary wanted to watch The Morning Show with me

01:34:59 ◼   ► and we haven't had an evening to get started on that.

01:35:02 ◼   ► But let's start with The Morning Show

01:35:04 ◼   ► 'cause in a way that seems like the flagship show.

01:35:06 ◼   ► Like that's the one that Apple,

01:35:08 ◼   ► it's got the biggest star power.

01:35:09 ◼   ► It's the one that they seem to be pushing the hardest at this point.

01:35:12 ◼   ► Uh, what do you think about it so far?

01:35:14 ◼   ► I came into the show very underwhelmed by the reviews and I've been pleasantly

01:35:20 ◼   ► surprised. I think it's a good show. I think it's an excellent cast.

01:35:24 ◼   ► I think it's a good story. It's captivated.

01:35:28 ◼   ► It has captivated me, uh, in a way that I was not expecting it to do. Um,

01:35:34 ◼   ► and I'm, I'm eagerly anticipating the next episode. I, you know,

01:35:39 ◼   ► So I think it's a good story. It's the kind of story that is very much, it is a contemporary

01:35:49 ◼   ► story about the, many kinds of issues like women in the workplace, specifically, you

01:35:55 ◼   ► know, Jennifer Aniston, she plays the host of a morning show in America, this fictional,

01:36:03 ◼   ► I think it's called TBA, TDA network. And it's the story of the consequences of the

01:36:12 ◼   ► #MeToo movement. And the consequences on both sides of the story, the person, the man that

01:36:24 ◼   ► is accused of abusing women in the workplace, which is played by... I'm terrible with names,

01:36:32 ◼   ► Steven, Steve Carell, and his colleagues at the network. And I think it's not, when

01:36:41 ◼   ► I say both sides, it's another kind of story that tries to argue in favor of both sides,

01:36:48 ◼   ► thankfully, at least based on what I've seen so far. I think the show tries to explain

01:36:57 ◼   ► what happens on both sides. And so we see in the first three episodes how the, I should

01:37:05 ◼   ► say I never remember character names, so the character played by Steve Correll, how it

01:37:11 ◼   ► deals with being fired from the network and sort of, you know, there's this idea of cancel

01:37:19 ◼   ► culture that some people talk about, like how suddenly his career after 15 years of

01:37:24 ◼   ► the network, being in everybody's homes in the morning with the morning show, it becomes

01:37:30 ◼   ► the subject of all of these accusations. And I think it's really well done. I think it's

01:37:40 ◼   ► a good story. It's very much modern and very much relatable. It's based on actual facts

01:37:48 ◼   ► that actually happened, specifically in the United States. I saw a scene showing how,

01:37:55 ◼   ► and I think this was based on a story from a guy that was fired from ABC, maybe, how

01:38:04 ◼   ► this person, this man, had a button installed at their desk to close the door remotely.

01:38:14 ◼   ► And yeah, it was a NBC. Okay. But yeah, a truly horrific story. Yes. And, and truly

01:38:24 ◼   ► her and the show has, and the show has a call out to that showing how the, one of these

01:38:29 ◼   ► desks at a button installed to close the door. So it's very much a modern story. And it's

01:38:36 ◼   ► true. And I think so far it does a good job showing because we see the stories from, you

01:38:42 ◼   ► we hear about him on Twitter, we see it on the news,

01:38:47 ◼   ► this show wants to show you what it's like

01:38:50 ◼   ► in the inside of a TV network that has to deal

01:38:54 ◼   ► with the consequences of all this.

01:38:56 ◼   ► And I think it's well done.

01:38:59 ◼   ► It's not a funny story, right?

01:39:03 ◼   ► But I think it's a-- - Right, it's serious.

01:39:05 ◼   ► - It's a serious story, but I think it's a captivating one

01:39:08 ◼   ► and it's well done.

01:39:09 ◼   ► And the actors, like the cast is excellent.

01:39:11 ◼   ► I think Jennifer Aniston does an excellent job, Steve Carell does, and Reese Witherspoon

01:39:16 ◼   ► as well. I love her character. Like the, you know, she plays this local news TV reporter

01:39:25 ◼   ► that suddenly is thrown into the spotlight of national television. I'm on the hook for

01:39:32 ◼   ► next for the next episode. Like I want to see what happens. I want to see what the story

01:39:35 ◼   ► is like. I think it's well done. I honestly don't understand what, and this is often the

01:39:40 ◼   ► case for me for TV shows and movies. I don't see what the issues with the from the early

01:39:45 ◼   ► reviews were. I think it's a good show. I think it's well done. I want to see what it

01:39:50 ◼   ► ends up being.

01:39:51 ◼   ► Yeah, the reviews are so interesting. I mean, if you will, I think we spoke about them on

01:39:55 ◼   ► the show a couple of weeks ago. Like it was a very cool reception from sort of the regular

01:40:02 ◼   ► reviewer people. But the reality is people like all sorts of different types of shows

01:40:07 ◼   ► and Apple is perfectly capable of making good television, just like they're perfectly capable

01:40:12 ◼   ► of making bad television.

01:40:13 ◼   ► And my sense is that maybe they don't have anything spectacular yet.

01:40:18 ◼   ► Like, I don't know if there's a single show that you have to sign up for this to watch,

01:40:23 ◼   ► right?

01:40:24 ◼   ► Like, like with Netflix has had that a couple of times, like, Oh my gosh, everyone is watching

01:40:28 ◼   ► this.

01:40:29 ◼   ► Everyone is talking about it, right?

01:40:30 ◼   ► Or HBO or AMC.

01:40:32 ◼   ► I don't think Apple TV plus has that yet,

01:40:34 ◼   ► but it seems like their shows are all,

01:40:37 ◼   ► at least for the most part, pretty good.

01:40:39 ◼   ► I don't know if they have like a real clunker yet. Maybe see,

01:40:42 ◼   ► I think people seem upset about that one, but I haven't,

01:40:46 ◼   ► I haven't watched any of that yet. Yeah, me neither. Yeah.

01:40:49 ◼   ► I am excited for the morning show.

01:40:51 ◼   ► I think for the reasons that you talked about,

01:40:55 ◼   ► it's a very interesting topic to have a show about,

01:40:59 ◼   ► especially right now where it's still very much part of our culture and yeah, you know that it is a

01:41:04 ◼   ► show about a current event and that's always really interesting and

01:41:08 ◼   ► Again that the cast I mean you couldn't ask for a stronger cast really for television Jennifer Aniston coming back to television for the first

01:41:15 ◼   ► Time that's huge right and I'm excited to see

01:41:19 ◼   ► What that's like excited to see Steve Carell in a serious role because I know him best as a comedic actor

01:41:25 ◼   ► right, things like The Office. So I am excited about that. I've watched all three episodes

01:41:32 ◼   ► of For All Mankind. We spoke about it on Liftoff yesterday, but we did not spoil anything

01:41:37 ◼   ► there. But the premise of the show is that right before Apollo 11, the Soviet Union beats America

01:41:45 ◼   ► to the moon. Which is such a good premise. I mean, it's so good. I love the idea. Like,

01:41:50 ◼   ► just a single event. It's so good. And then they follow it up. So Apollo 11 goes. It diverges

01:41:58 ◼   ► from real history very quickly, obviously. Apollo 11 goes, but is almost a disaster.

01:42:03 ◼   ► And then before Apollo 12, the Russians put the first woman on the Moon, which in real

01:42:10 ◼   ► life has yet to happen. The only astronauts on the Moon were men from America. Artemis

01:42:16 ◼   ► this I'm on a space engine now Artemis is NASA's program to put people back on the moon in the 2020s

01:42:22 ◼   ► They say that the first mission will have a woman aboard. There'll be a woman on the moon

01:42:25 ◼   ► So the show very quickly becomes about it comes from oh my gosh, Russia beat America to now

01:42:34 ◼   ► President Nixon wants women in the astronaut corps and where episode 3 ends off is that women are training to become astronauts

01:42:42 ◼   ► So can you tell me which is the sorry but if the Nixon tapes like the conversations that you hear at least in the first episode

01:42:49 ◼   ► Those are not real right there. Oh, no

01:42:53 ◼   ► No

01:42:54 ◼   ► but I think they did a really good job at using the tapes right to like share what Nixon is thinking cuz Nixon recorded everything that

01:43:01 ◼   ► Came out in Watergate. It's like it's it's it's a fun way to get Nixon worked in. Yeah

01:43:05 ◼   ► Okay, and I mean there's obviously a lot of historical footage

01:43:08 ◼   ► In fact, there are several shots across the three episodes that the show is 16 by 9 or 16 by 10 or whatever

01:43:14 ◼   ► It's widescreen

01:43:15 ◼   ► but which back in the day everything was 4 by 3 and they have

01:43:19 ◼   ► classic footage of

01:43:22 ◼   ► Apollo hardware in 4 by 3 and that they go back to that so that they dip in and out of like historical video

01:43:28 ◼   ► Which is fun and they don't clean it up. It looks historic

01:43:32 ◼   ► So they are winking to the fact that it's a period piece but not shot in the period right there

01:43:37 ◼   ► there's that sort of meta level to it. But I enjoy the show and I'm a space

01:43:43 ◼   ► nerd so I'm predisposed to liking this but I think it I think it's a really

01:43:48 ◼   ► interesting premise that to take something we all know really well and

01:43:51 ◼   ► just stick a fork right in its eye and say okay what we grew up knowing what

01:43:57 ◼   ► happened in this world that didn't happen at all and it took this radical

01:44:03 ◼   ► departure and I would imagine Jason I spoke about this as for all mankind goes

01:44:07 ◼   ► forward, it will depart from reality more and more, right? Like, you know, like the

01:44:15 ◼   ► women and the astronaut training, like that didn't happen in the 60s, really.

01:44:19 ◼   ► It happened for Mercury and there actually was a historic women's

01:44:24 ◼   ► astronaut training program and that is referenced in the show and some of those

01:44:28 ◼   ► women or characters in the show now, it's like they tie it to what was there, but

01:44:32 ◼   ► they are you know going to increasingly depart from the timeline and I'm really

01:44:37 ◼   ► excited to see where that goes because fiction in a setting that is historic is

01:44:43 ◼   ► just that's a really interesting sort of genre for me you know things like Man of

01:44:47 ◼   ► the High Castle kind of do the same thing right like it it's historic but

01:44:51 ◼   ► then then they turn and wink at the camera like oh I oh this is not the

01:44:55 ◼   ► history that we know you know it and I just love those sort of stories and so I

01:45:00 ◼   ► I like For All Mankind.

01:45:02 ◼   ► The acting is pretty good.

01:45:04 ◼   ► There are a couple places where it feels,

01:45:06 ◼   ► it feels a little thin,

01:45:08 ◼   ► that some of the characters responding to things

01:45:10 ◼   ► feel a little off,

01:45:12 ◼   ► but I'm willing to write that off

01:45:15 ◼   ► as it's the first couple of episodes.

01:45:17 ◼   ► And like most shows get better

01:45:19 ◼   ► further into their first season, right?

01:45:20 ◼   ► That's almost universal.

01:45:21 ◼   ► I mean, there are very few shows I can think of

01:45:23 ◼   ► where the best episodes are episodes one, two, and three.

01:45:25 ◼   ► Right?

01:45:26 ◼   ► - Right, yeah.

01:45:27 ◼   ► - And so, unlike you, I'm excited for when episode four

01:45:30 ◼   ► comes out on Friday and I'll be watching it this weekend and I'm a fan so far.

01:45:35 ◼   ► Anything that is based on chaos theory and the butterfly effect, you know, the idea of

01:45:39 ◼   ► changing a single condition at the beginning and then having wildly different results at

01:45:44 ◼   ► the end. I'm all in for that kind of stuff. I love the idea. So I think I saw somewhere

01:45:50 ◼   ► that Ronald Moore, what's the name of the creator of For All Mankind?

01:45:57 ◼   ► Ron Moore.

01:45:58 ◼   ► has like multiple seasons planned in his mind. And the idea would be to like, um, jump back

01:46:06 ◼   ► to like multiple decades in the future to see like the consequences of the single event,

01:46:11 ◼   ► uh, Russia putting a man on the moon first, like how it changed mankind for decades to

01:46:18 ◼   ► come. So that idea of like a single condition at the, in the initial, at the beginning,

01:46:24 ◼   ► it can affect history throughout the decades that's that's an awesome concept and yeah

01:46:31 ◼   ► I'm I mean I want to see what it's like I want to see what happens yeah so all in all

01:46:35 ◼   ► I think Apple is I think the start is totally fine you know TV+ is free for effectively

01:46:42 ◼   ► everybody at this point like I mean if you've bought something and they'll in the last however

01:46:46 ◼   ► long it is like I would imagine most people are watching it for free for the next year

01:46:51 ◼   ► And so for that, you know, I'm not paying 10 bucks a month at this point, then I'm fine

01:46:57 ◼   ► with it being a little slow.

01:46:59 ◼   ► I'm fine with it not being a ton of a ton of options.

01:47:02 ◼   ► There's a lot more coming.

01:47:03 ◼   ► There have been stories this week, Apple released the trailers for their first couple of movies,

01:47:08 ◼   ► including one called The Banker that looks really, really good.

01:47:15 ◼   ► And those are going to be in movie theaters and then streaming on Apple TV+, which is

01:47:22 ◼   ► something that Netflix and others have played with.

01:47:26 ◼   ► And several years ago, there was actually a big dust up with Netflix trying to do this

01:47:29 ◼   ► and a bunch of industry people being really upset about that, but Apple is going to do

01:47:34 ◼   ► it.

01:47:35 ◼   ► And so I think the best is yet to come with TV+.

01:47:38 ◼   ► But I think what's here is a pretty solid star.

01:47:41 ◼   ► It's not amazing, but it's definitely not as dire as it seemed like it was going to

01:47:45 ◼   ► be based on initial reviews.

01:47:48 ◼   ► Yes, yes.

01:47:49 ◼   ► If you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about, head over to the website relay.fm/connected/268.

01:47:56 ◼   ► While you're there, you can get in touch with us.

01:47:58 ◼   ► You can drop us an email with feedback or follow up.

01:48:00 ◼   ► And again, if you're using TV plus on a non Apple TV hardware, I actually honestly want

01:48:05 ◼   ► to know how that is.

01:48:06 ◼   ► So please let us know.

01:48:07 ◼   ► You can do that on Twitter as well.

01:48:08 ◼   ► You can find Federico there as Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I, and he is the editor-in-chief of MaxStories.net.

01:48:18 ◼   ► Myke was away this week, but you can follow him on Twitter as @imyke.

01:48:23 ◼   ► And I would say for Myke to know that he was missed, because he is missed, I miss Myke

01:48:29 ◼   ► when he's not here, what should people send him, Federico?

01:48:32 ◼   ► Do you have any ideas?

01:48:33 ◼   ► What should people send Myke?

01:48:37 ◼   ► Send Myke a tweet, @imyke, with your favorite holiday meal.

01:48:45 ◼   ► So wherever you are in the world, it can be Thanksgiving, Christmas, anything.

01:48:50 ◼   ► Your favorite holiday meal.

01:48:51 ◼   ► Let's get Myke in the holiday spirit.

01:48:53 ◼   ► Sounds good.

01:48:54 ◼   ► You can find me on Twitter as @ismh and my work at 512pixels.net.

01:48:59 ◼   ► I'd like to thank my wonderful wife Mary for joining you earlier in the show.

01:49:03 ◼   ► I have not heard that yet.

01:49:05 ◼   ► As I'm saying this, I will hear it in the edit.

01:49:07 ◼   ► - You're gonna like it.

01:49:08 ◼   ► - But I'm excited to hear that.

01:49:10 ◼   ► So thank you to her for stepping in this week

01:49:14 ◼   ► as the headphone tester in the family.

01:49:17 ◼   ► There's headphones everywhere, Federico.

01:49:18 ◼   ► She's just testing things all over the place.

01:49:21 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsors this week,

01:49:23 ◼   ► Moo, FreshBooks, Hover, and Away.

01:49:25 ◼   ► Until next time, buddy, say goodbye.

01:49:28 ◼   ► - Arrivederci.