0:00:00(upbeat music)
0:00:02Hello and welcome to Connected episode 256.
0:00:12It's made possible by our sponsors,
0:00:14Pingdom, Smile, and DoorDash.
0:00:17I'm your host, Steven Hackett,
0:00:18and I'm joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci.
0:00:21(birds cawing)
0:00:35Laughter ]
0:00:37And by Mr. Myke Curley. Well, I'm here. Yeah, you're not on the beach.
0:00:42Hello. Hey, how are you? I'm very good. Are you? I feel like you need to provide some follow-up
0:00:50about how you're feeling. Oh, I fractured my spine. Well, you're... I don't think we need to
0:00:55go into it any further than that, do we? A vertebrae. Well, I still have a spine. I could
0:01:00say I broke it. I broke my back. I've been saying that to some people. All of these things are
0:01:04somewhat true. Yeah, your spine is like the gooey bits. No, no, no, no. The spine is the bone.
0:01:08You're thinking of the spinal cord. Maybe. I didn't touch that. Okay. Luckily, the doctor was
0:01:16very happy to show me that my spinal cord was intact.
0:01:19But yeah, you may remember a few episodes ago when I was ever so slightly merry at the
0:01:23beach, one of the reasons is because I was trying to get the pain to go away because
0:01:28either the day before or two days before I had a silly accident where I jumped off something
0:01:32too high, had a bad landing.
0:01:34Turns out after an MRI that I have indeed fractured a vertebrae in my lumbar spine,
0:01:40which apparently the note says that now I am like medically 10% shorter, which I don't
0:01:45fully understand what that means.
0:01:47That seems like too much.
0:01:48I assume that it must be like my spine is 10% smaller for the time being.
0:01:53So that's fun.
0:01:54Do your pants seem longer than they used to?
0:01:56Like these were shorts and now they're jeans.
0:01:58Yeah, it's weird.
0:01:59I don't have to duck my head down anymore.
0:02:02I don't really get what the 10% means.
0:02:04It's one of those things where like, "Here's your report."
0:02:06And it's like, "Here's a bunch of stuff I've never understood before."
0:02:10But yeah, I'm dealing with a spinal injury.
0:02:15I'm glad you are okay. I'm glad it's not more serious than it is.
0:02:18It's a minor loss of anterior vertebral body height, so it's the height of my spine, basically.
0:02:26Yeah.
0:02:27But yeah, it's quite a thing.
0:02:29Is it worth the rush that you felt?
0:02:31No, if you see me in San Francisco when we're going to be there next week,
0:02:34hug me gently, I guess, would be my request.
0:02:38Well, we got that.
0:02:42That's a good bit of follow-up, though, right?
0:02:44It is.
0:02:44Like, "Oh, follow up, I actually fractured my spine."
0:02:47Just in one place. And there's no surgery or anything, right? You just have to take it easy.
0:02:5212 weeks of recovery.
0:02:54Okay.
0:02:54Where I was told, and I quote, to avoid pain.
0:02:57Like, in life?
0:03:01That was the advice I was given.
0:03:03Philosophical pain?
0:03:04Yeah. When he explained it to the doctor, it made more sense, but I just liked the phrase,
0:03:07because that was how he started it. But it's basically the idea of,
0:03:10"If something hurts, stop doing it."
0:03:13So you're off Twitter for 12 weeks?
0:03:15Yeah, it's just a lot of things I can't do anymore.
0:03:17But yeah, so there we go. That's where I am. 12 weeks of recovery, in theory.
0:03:22Probably shouldn't be taking multiple transatlantic flights during that period of time,
0:03:27but like, gotta be there for the people, man. Gotta be there for the people.
0:03:30That's right. You're a podcaster of the people.
0:03:33Spinal no spine.
0:03:34I mean, you still have one. You're not...
0:03:37It's not complete, though.
0:03:38We're not pouring you into a bucket.
0:03:40I don't know. Maybe I lost a tiny piece.
0:03:42if you could turn it into a keychain or something.
0:03:44- I don't want them to go in there and get it though.
0:03:46Stay away. - I could do it.
0:03:48- Yeah, okay.
0:03:49- I got some tools. - I got the tools.
0:03:51I got a very specific set of skills.
0:03:53- Look, if you can upgrade the RAM in a Mac Mini,
0:03:54you can basically do spinal surgery.
0:03:56- Yeah, I mean, humans don't have RAM doors either.
0:03:59- That's true. - If you think about it.
0:04:01- That's all done.
0:04:03We spoke about RSS last episode, I think,
0:04:06and you were onto me about cleaning out
0:04:07my RSS subscriptions, and I have done so.
0:04:10I neglected to write down the number of subscriptions
0:04:14I had before I started cleaning, so that's my bad.
0:04:17But I got rid of a lot of duplicate stuff
0:04:19like we talked about, and it is nicer.
0:04:21It really is.
0:04:22On the topic of RSS, though, I did
0:04:24want to point out that Net News Wire, which
0:04:27is a name that should be familiar to a lot
0:04:29of our listeners-- it was an RSS reader for the Mac
0:04:31for a long, long time.
0:04:32And iOS.
0:04:33And iOS, yes.
0:04:34I forget about the iOS version because it wasn't very good.
0:04:37But it is been sold a couple times anyways, it is now back in the hands of Brent Simmons
0:04:43who created it.
0:04:45And he is working on net newswire version five, there's a public beta, I have that link
0:04:50in the show notes.
0:04:51I've been running it on my Mac for a while now.
0:04:53And it's definitely a beta like there's some customization, like particularly font size
0:04:57customization that I really wish was there.
0:05:00That's not there yet.
0:05:01But it's really nice.
0:05:02And it is fast and lightweight.
0:05:05And it doesn't crash like reader does in the background.
0:05:07So I'm enjoying it.
0:05:08So if you are using Feedbin, you can check this out on the Mac.
0:05:13That is the only syncing engine that it hooks up
0:05:15to at the moment.
0:05:16You can also just have local accounts
0:05:18if you're not doing RSS anywhere else.
0:05:20But if you're a Feedbin customer like I am,
0:05:21you can plug into that.
0:05:23That feels very artisanal to not have your RSS service syncing.
0:05:29Yeah, it does, right?
0:05:31Right.
0:05:31I only believe in RSS on this one machine.
0:05:35and I don't want my subscriptions
0:05:36to go anywhere else.
0:05:37That feels very like hipster RSS.
0:05:40- It does.
0:05:41And he has said that there are plans to add more services,
0:05:44but it's a beta and Feedbin apparently
0:05:46was the one that got done first.
0:05:47- Is that probably the most popular Feedbin?
0:05:50- Feedly, I think, is the most popular.
0:05:51Looking at the stats for 512 pixels,
0:05:53Feedly by far is the most popular.
0:05:56But I think Feedbin is kind of popular
0:05:59amongst our circles maybe, 'cause it's really simple.
0:06:02It's like, you pay for it.
0:06:04Feedly is free, but a lot of people don't like the way their apps work or the way they
0:06:08do things.
0:06:09I don't remember the crazy one that I'm on.
0:06:11What am I on?
0:06:12I Know Reader or something?
0:06:13I Know Reader.
0:06:14Yeah, that's like the Federico for a T-shirt version.
0:06:16And it has a lot of what is effectively server-side rules you can do with it, right?
0:06:20Where you can set up none of that.
0:06:23Absolutely zero of it.
0:06:24I just signed up for it because it was what Federico told me to sign up for.
0:06:28The Content Reader for Power Users Who Want to Save Time.
0:06:32That's their time.
0:06:33that does describe you.
0:06:34- I am a PAL user and I do want to save time, so.
0:06:37- We have one, I don't know, I put it in followup
0:06:40'cause there really wasn't a place for it,
0:06:42but I wanna talk about the MacBook Pros
0:06:44that we spoke about weeks ago
0:06:45that were being recalled for battery failures.
0:06:48It is the 15-inch, late 2015,
0:06:50so like the last one before
0:06:52the USB-C Thunderbolt touch bar revolution.
0:06:55A great laptop, Marco and I have both praised it,
0:06:59we've both used it on and off over the years.
0:07:02And they have this big deal where like the batteries are catching fire.
0:07:06Apple has some like really strong language about that.
0:07:09If you own one of these machines, please look at the link in the show notes and
0:07:15check your serial number and make sure that you are not in, in this list where
0:07:20you need to have your MacBook pro serviced.
0:07:22I'd heard from a couple of people who are sort of still in like Mac service.
0:07:26Roles and to get these repaired.
0:07:28It takes a while because they're not shipping them via air.
0:07:31they're being shipped by truck because they don't want to put these on airplanes because some of these batteries are
0:07:37you know dangerous and turns out that that has caught up to to the MacBook Pro the FAA has
0:07:45announced that these machines are not
0:07:48Allowable on flights anymore
0:07:52following in the footsteps of the note 7 and I have a lot of questions about this like how
0:07:57How are airline safety regulators and staff going to know that you have a 2015 and not a 2013 or 14 to look the same or
0:08:06If your serial number is in the batch or if it's not I don't know
0:08:10I have a lot of questions about the nuts and bolts of this. That's the thing is like, okay
0:08:14Well, what if you got it fixed? How do you prove that? Yeah, I don't know, right
0:08:21Like if you had this laptop and you went through the recall program
0:08:26How do you show the air flight?
0:08:28Agent or whatever. What are they called flight attendant that you have a fixed laptop? It's a good question
0:08:36Maybe yeah, you get a little like sticker with it. That's a little airplane on it with a thumbs up emoji
0:08:41So I have a terrible thing. I have a terrible admission to make for you now worse than breaking your back. Yeah
0:08:49When I was looking at this article, I was like, I think we have one of these computers
0:08:55And I hadn't thought to get it checked. I don't know if Adina has a 15 or a 13. I don't
0:09:02remember. So I just sent her a text message and I was like, "Oh, you should check this."
0:09:07Right? And then she said, "Oh my god, is that why it gets so hot?" So that's what's going
0:09:11on. That's what's going on in my life. We are not taking it with us on the plane. But
0:09:16I don't know if it's the 13 or the 15 that she has, but irrespective, that computer gets
0:09:21hot apparently. So that's good to know.
0:09:22Only the 15th blow up.
0:09:24So that's good.
0:09:25But did the 13 need to be recalled as well?
0:09:28I don't think so.
0:09:29It's probably just a lot.
0:09:31That's good news.
0:09:32Bloomberg, man, they got the picture of the right laptop and everything.
0:09:35Good job.
0:09:36Congratulations, everybody.
0:09:38It is August and we have a couple of just reminders.
0:09:43One today is Wednesday, August 14.
0:09:45There is one day left to pick up a relay FM fifth anniversary t shirt.
0:09:51you're listening to this on August 16, it is too late and it is gone forever. And I'm sorry. So
0:09:57there may be some pins still available that we have a small selection of pins still available.
0:10:01Yes. There will be pins left. Those will just sell until they're sold out. But the shirts are
0:10:07like a pre order so they get printed stuff. So if you haven't gotten one of these, now's the time.
0:10:10I will say I have some of the enamel pins here and they are really cool. And I'm really excited
0:10:17to see the shirts when they ship in a few weeks. Secondly, Relay FM membership
0:10:23month is August, kind of bleeds into September too, you know mid-August to
0:10:27mid-September. Yeah. And this is the time of year where we talk about the
0:10:31membership program here at Relay FM. It goes on year-round, there are perks
0:10:35year-round, so we send a behind-the-scenes newsletter each month,
0:10:37and we have a Relay FM members only podcast that I host where I pull hosts
0:10:45from different shows and we talk about something. Sometimes I interview a host
0:10:48about something they've done and that's really cool. I really enjoy doing that
0:10:51show and that is a member perk. You can learn more about membership at relay.fm/membership
0:10:58or if you go to relay.fm/connected you can support this show with just a
0:11:02couple of clicks. But the big perk happens in August and September where we
0:11:06release members only bonus episodes of every show. Some shows team up and do
0:11:12things. Some shows do it solo, so like for instance on Liftoff, Jason and I are going to be watching
0:11:18the movie Armageddon, which is going to be a real adventure, and we're going to talk about that.
0:11:22Myke, you, Gray, and Jason have completed another text adventure.
0:11:27It's going to be out on Friday.
0:11:29I've heard it. I think it's the best one yet. I love it so much.
0:11:33Thank you. Thank you very much.
0:11:34So go check that out. We would love your support. If you are a Relay F a member of,
0:11:38whether it's this show or any other show, thank you for your support. It really means the world
0:11:42to us. Yeah, thank you very much. All right, this is our annual relay FM q&a episode. So
0:11:49every August, Myke, you and I take questions and we answer them. We've done it on video,
0:11:53we've done it connected. So we're doing it connected this year. And we're gonna get into
0:11:57that. But first, I want to tell you about our first sponsor, if that's okay, I would
0:12:00love it. This episode is brought to you by pingdom, the company that makes website performance
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0:12:40And if disaster strikes, you'll be the first to know.
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0:12:44So like I said, we use this on Relay FM.
0:12:47So I get a text message and a push notification
0:12:49from Pingdom if the website is down.
0:12:51You don't wanna hear your website being down
0:12:53from an email or a tweet.
0:12:54You wanna know so you can get in there and get it working.
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0:13:00All Pingdom needs is your URL
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0:13:23- So we have over the last couple of weeks
0:13:25been asking for our listeners to send us in questions
0:13:28under the hashtag RelayQA,
0:13:30and we have lots of wonderful questions
0:13:32that we're gonna go through today.
0:13:35The first comes from Kate.
0:13:36Kate asks, "Since the last Q&A, is there anything in particular that has happened in relation
0:13:41to the company or otherwise that you hadn't previously thought could be possible?"
0:13:46What do you think?
0:13:47I think the frequency of live shows and the success of them that we have, especially maybe
0:13:55over the last six months or so, kind of starting with our tour, right, that was in October.
0:14:02Considering we didn't do any live shows the year prior, we did our live show in June,
0:14:12which was one of the bigger ones that we'd done ever.
0:14:16Actually, it was the biggest we'd done ever at The Hammer at WWDC.
0:14:20And then we enjoyed that so much that we went on tour in October and we did a bunch of shows
0:14:26in a bunch of cities and have kind of since then been doing more and more of them and
0:14:32I mean we're doing another two next week, right?
0:14:36Back to back.
0:14:37Back to back. That's going to be a new experience. We're going to be doing our big live show
0:14:41Thursday, Penn Addict Live on Friday. But like just the way that we, well, the way that
0:14:47you have kind of, you know, you're the kind of the driving force behind the live shows,
0:14:52But the way that we've been able to have these things come together and be more frequent
0:14:57and be successful has been a surprise to me.
0:15:02It's not a lot, but we're not losing money on live shows anymore, which we had been previously.
0:15:06Yes, the first several were at a loss.
0:15:11I think that's a good answer.
0:15:12I think looking back over the last 12 months, that's what comes to mind for me as well.
0:15:17that we've done. We did WBC like you said we did Chicago, New York, Toronto on that
0:15:23tour. Mac power users had has had two live shows. And we did WBC again, and now this.
0:15:30And I think to say that like the company does like a yearly theme do thing was like you
0:15:34guys talk a lot about in cortex, but I don't know if relay does that as a company, but
0:15:38if there would have been one for the last 12 months, it would have been like, live shows
0:15:42It was like getting us out into the world.
0:15:45We wanna do more of them.
0:15:47I'm already sort of having some ideas put together
0:15:49for early 2020, and it'll be something that we continue
0:15:52because it's so great to do what we do with an audience,
0:15:56hang out with people, and I really love it.
0:15:59And we're at a point now,
0:16:01this big thing, I'm just gonna show Excluded
0:16:03'cause it's so bonkers.
0:16:06Like, we've kinda gotten to a rhythm of how they work,
0:16:08like what we need to do, the equipment's all dialed in.
0:16:10So some of the stress of making it happen
0:16:13has faded over time, and it means that I think
0:16:16we're more willing to do them more often.
0:16:19- And because people will ask me,
0:16:21I would love to do a show in London at some point,
0:16:23and we will, I just don't know when.
0:16:26But it's something that I really want to do,
0:16:29but it's just something that is more difficult,
0:16:33because it's all dependent on what show is it gonna be.
0:16:36- Yeah, well, I'll say here,
0:16:38if we wanna do a connection in London,
0:16:39Fedrick is pretty close. You know, I can come over. Yeah. Something.
0:16:43What is something? Yeah. I would like to do that very much,
0:16:46but it's just a case of the logistics of that. Yes. Are significant.
0:16:51Yes. That's a big deal.
0:16:52So, so like it's the thing that we would really love to do,
0:16:56but it's just about when, but it is something that we will do maybe over the next
0:17:0012 months. Right. Like maybe sometime in 2020, hopefully if we can find a reason,
0:17:04I don't know, but like, it would be a wonderful thing to do. We,
0:17:08we do really want to do it so it's just a case of working it out.
0:17:11uh Scott asked where did the idea for Relay come from what got the ball rolling?
0:17:15I guess it depends what Scott is like actually asking but like my the way I am interpreting this
0:17:21is like why did you start the company um and I guess it was just a case of wow we'd both been
0:17:27doing this stuff for a long time like I started in 2010 you started not too long after that and
0:17:34we'd moved through various things, right? Like setting up a very kind of small duct tape
0:17:40together network, which we moved over to 5x5 and then it kind of just got to the point where
0:17:47I felt like I had achieved everything I wanted to achieve but didn't have the outcome that I
0:17:52was looking for, which was for podcasting to be my full-time career, right? Like I feel like I'd
0:17:57achieved everything I wanted but didn't have the outcome. So then I was like, okay, well then I
0:18:03I need to start again, I guess is probably the best way to think of it.
0:18:07And for me, starting again was doing it on my own and like in my own way and all
0:18:12that kind of stuff. And I shared that with you.
0:18:15And when I shared that with you, you were kind of like, oh, me too.
0:18:17So, so we just did it.
0:18:19Here we are.
0:18:20Yeah. And then it was just a case of like working out, like, this is everything that
0:18:26we know, this is everything that we've learned and these are the ways that we
0:18:28would want to do it. And when we did it that way and when we own the business,
0:18:33and could profit the way that a business does,
0:18:36it made more sense for us.
0:18:38And the next question actually leads into the rest
0:18:41of what I'm about to say.
0:18:42So I will hold on that on a minute.
0:18:44But that was why it was just a case of like,
0:18:47create being like creatively itchy feet, right?
0:18:51Which is like, do you familiar with that phrase?
0:18:53- Sure.
0:18:54- So like, we know we just wanted to do something new
0:18:56and wanted to do something different.
0:18:57And I also felt like I had other challenges
0:19:01that I needed to face because everything that I'd done
0:19:04to that point hadn't gotten me to my ultimate goal.
0:19:08- Yeah, I think that's well said.
0:19:09For me, when we started this, you were further down the road
0:19:13into wanting to do this for a living.
0:19:16And again, this goes into the second question here
0:19:19in a second, but very quickly it became clear to me
0:19:24that if this company were successful,
0:19:26we could both do it full time.
0:19:29And for me, at least, that wasn't my goal
0:19:32in starting the company.
0:19:33Like I admit that my vision of it at the beginning was,
0:19:37hey, you know what, we can make some pretty decent
0:19:39side money and we'll have a place to do our own thing.
0:19:42And I definitely didn't foresee
0:19:44where it is now five years later.
0:19:46- I mean, even, but then though,
0:19:48when we started, it was a dream.
0:19:50It wasn't like an inevitability.
0:19:52- Definitely.
0:19:53- Right, so it did feel like, okay,
0:19:55we could maybe build something different
0:19:59and earn some good side money.
0:20:00But, and then hopefully one day turn it into
0:20:04what we do for a living.
0:20:05But that hopefully came quicker than we imagined, I think.
0:20:09- Yep, so this is Aaron's question,
0:20:11perfectly suited for where we're going.
0:20:14When y'all decided to go full time,
0:20:16being full time in the company, were you profitable?
0:20:18How many shows did you have at that point?
0:20:21And before going full time, how many hours were you putting
0:20:24in a week to podcasting and Relay FM?
0:20:26So your story is pretty well known.
0:20:29You went full time in relay much sooner
0:20:32than I anticipated, but it worked out.
0:20:37- Yeah, I mean, what was it like a month
0:20:39after we started that I quit?
0:20:42Like, I don't think it was long.
0:20:43- It was not long.
0:20:44- It feels like kind of about that time.
0:20:48I'll find the episode, like the best telling
0:20:51of these stories, like this particular story is on analog.
0:20:56Oh, I quit in October. Yeah, I quit in October. So we'd been around for a couple of months.
0:21:02So we launched in the middle of August and then in the middle of October, I quit my day job.
0:21:08At that point, the company was profitable. That was why I did it. Like, it was...
0:21:15We were able to be profitable in that sense quickly because we didn't have a lot of overhead.
0:21:21Right? Like a company like ours that only exists on the internet doesn't have a lot of
0:21:26of overhead. So provided that we could get advertising, which we did from the start because
0:21:31we both built contacts by that point, we were able to be profitable. Like the first thing
0:21:37that had to happen was we repaid the money that both me and you invested. And we kind
0:21:43of did that up until I guess October or whatever. And then once we were set, it was like, all
0:21:48right. It was just a case of I had a bunch of stuff happened to me, but really it was
0:21:52like I could see what our bookings were and I knew that I could at least last three months.
0:21:58And so then it was at that point it was like well let's just try it like I might as well
0:22:02just try it now because we can get there. So that was it. We were still at our original
0:22:08no we'd grown in shows then I think we had like six or seven shows at that point.
0:22:13Upgrade and Clockwise had definitely come over at that point.
0:22:15Yeah Rocket too I think.
0:22:17It's right in there somewhere.
0:22:18around that sort of time. So we had started to grow a little bit. Again, that was much
0:22:24faster than expected. Jason joining was a big shock to all of us in a good way, but
0:22:32that was a big surprise. We weren't expecting to have started any new shows by that point.
0:22:40So Rocket was in January, so it was a little bit later, but I think that was the next show
0:22:45after Jason's two shows. So we'd started to grow and things were looking up, right?
0:22:53And so then it was, I think it was like, "Okay, this is becoming much more of a thing than
0:22:58we'd anticipated, a little bit faster than we anticipated." But your story is very different
0:23:02though.
0:23:03It is. So I went full-time almost a year into the company. We were in very different stages
0:23:10of the life of the time. I had three kids. In fact, my third was born the month after
0:23:15we launched Relay. It's like, I'd taken a bunch of my own money, poured it in this company,
0:23:19like, "Oh, we're going to have a baby in a month." It was chaotic in hindsight.
0:23:25So I had a job that I really liked at a company I liked doing work that I enjoyed. And because
0:23:32we had three kids, my wife worked only part-time, my bar to make the jump was higher than yours
0:23:39was at that point.
0:23:41And I could have done it earlier.
0:23:44For me, there was probably three to four or five months or something where the money made
0:23:50sense to do it, but I was hesitant to do it.
0:23:53And I've told this story before, but basically Jason Snell and David Sparks ganged up on
0:23:58me at WWDC and said, "Look, you need to quit your job.
0:24:02You need to do relay."
0:24:04And they were right.
0:24:06I went I came home and quit my job and I was hesitant to though, right if you remember
0:24:12Right, like when we were talking about it
0:24:14Like I had a hesitancy of you Quentin because I was scared about
0:24:18Because I do the lion's share or at least at that time did the lion's share of the advertising work
0:24:24Which was where all of our money was coming from at that point. Yeah, I was really worried about
0:24:29Being responsible for putting food on your family's table
0:24:33Like that was like a big big like thing that I was really scared about
0:24:37But again, it was just like a case of like I was able to get over that quicker
0:24:42Then you were able to make your decision
0:24:45but like I remember when we were originally talking about it like that was like a real just like a real like
0:24:49Nervousness that I had because at that point the only person being supported full-time by relay was me
0:24:57everybody else wasn't and there is like I think now we're at the case where there are more people who have large parts of their income
0:25:05from our company and that kind of spreading of it feels more natural and it doesn't really concern me anymore because we
0:25:13Feel not because I'm a monster because I feel like we're pretty we're pretty solid
0:25:17There is like a case of like we would know very far in advance now if someone was gonna have a problem. Yeah
0:25:25Right. Yep. So the way that way things work just to round up Aaron's question before going full-time
0:25:31How many hours were you putting in a week? I don't know. It was a lot
0:25:34I mean I was working 40 hours a week at a job and then
0:25:37Probably working another 15 hours a week easily on
0:25:41Relay stuff, you know in the evenings and weekends and I was actually thinking about this
0:25:46I'm probably putting in the same amount of hours, right?
0:25:49Like I genuinely think that like the amount of hours I'm putting in now was the same
0:25:53I was putting in then but I was also working a job at the same time because now I have a much better work-life balance
0:25:58But then it was like I mean, I'm doing about the same amount of shows
0:26:02Right and I do less editing now than I used to and stuff like that
0:26:07while still doing the business management and we now have
0:26:10People we've hired to take jobs away from as well
0:26:13Like I reckon I'm probably doing about that because I was effectively working two full-time jobs, right?
0:26:19I would come home at 6 and I'd be done at 1
0:26:22Like that was kind of my my life at the time. So I probably don't don't do any
0:26:29more or less hours than I used to, which is horrifying to think about, but I'm
0:26:36happy that I made that sacrifice in my life because now I have the life I want.
0:26:39It's a difficult thing to do, it's a difficult thing for most people, and I
0:26:43was just at the stage in my life where I could do it, and I consider myself very
0:26:46fortunate that I was in that part. Mm-hmm. I'm reading the show notes for
0:26:51upgrade episode one which is September 2014. I've forgotten this it was Jason's
0:26:58review of the iPhone 6 and 6 plus that feels so long ago. I was when that when
0:27:04episode one launched I was in a hotel room in Italy because it was we weren't
0:27:10we weren't planning on doing the first episode then it was but Jason had an
0:27:15iPhone so wouldn't it be great to have the first episode go up and it went up
0:27:20on the embargo time of the iPhone 6. So it's like, well, this is the perfect way to launch
0:27:26the show. But like I had the, there were funny things like the intro music. I didn't hear
0:27:31it until the episode went up. I'd never heard the song. Just like little stuff like that.
0:27:37All right, back to Kate. There's a lot of Kate questions.
0:27:40Kate had lots of great questions. There's going to be a lot of Kate questions.
0:27:43#KateQA. Is this where you expected to be on your fifth anniversary? How is it different
0:27:49to your initial ideas of the company.
0:27:51I think I said a second ago,
0:27:54I could never have predicted the level
0:27:57which would be operating now, both in the number of shows,
0:28:00but in the amazing people we work with.
0:28:02And that's really what I come back to with this.
0:28:04If you had told me five years ago,
0:28:06I would get to work with the people we get to work with,
0:28:09many of whom I knew and looked up to,
0:28:11and many who I didn't know, but now look up to now
0:28:14as I've gotten to know them,
0:28:16that's what humbles me the most,
0:28:17is that there are so many amazing people that post shows on our network.
0:28:22Without a doubt. Just personal heroes up and down, right? It's kind of a wild thing to be
0:28:29in that position. And also because I am a guy, the financials are incredible too. I never thought
0:28:39that we would be at the place that we are, right? The fact that we are able to both be supported
0:28:44and we're able to help out so many other people with their like creative autonomy basically
0:28:50is kind of wild like I don't there is there are so many things right that you could
0:28:56basically if if if us of five years ago had access to our own website as it is now and our
0:29:05spreadsheets we wouldn't believe any of it it would all seem like oh what you did was
0:29:11create your dream version of what was going to happen and give it to me.
0:29:15Because that is kind of where we are like this. We have,
0:29:18I think exceeded at this point,
0:29:20all of our wildest expectations for what this company could be. So,
0:29:24you know,
0:29:26I can't help but look back now and just be like,
0:29:29and feel very grateful for it all.
0:29:32Jackson asks, what has been something that you didn't expect to be difficult,
0:29:37but was surprisingly so when running a podcast network?
0:29:40The mental load of working with such a large group of people is a big one for me.
0:29:45I carry around in my brain the desires, needs and requirements of all of our hosts constantly.
0:29:52And that's just part of who I am as a person. That sort of stuff really weighs on my mind.
0:29:59And I've had to do a lot over time to help me cope with that. But making sure that everybody is happy
0:30:09and get what they need, that is a thing that like it really, it really weighs on me.
0:30:16And I think it helps, right? Like I think it's a plus. I think we both have this, right? Like
0:30:21I think our hosts like to work with us because they enjoy working with us and part of that is
0:30:26because we care about them. So it's a big thing that I carry around and I don't think I would
0:30:32have expected, especially because again, like I didn't think that we would have as many shows
0:30:36and hosts as we have. So that's been a big thing for me.
0:30:39Yeah, that's a good answer. I think something that comes to mind for me is the, as we've
0:30:44grown, I find it difficult sometimes to hand things off to other people. Like you said,
0:30:49we have a couple people helping us now internally with internal tasks, and you did that much
0:30:57quicker than I did.
0:30:58Because I was going to lose my mind otherwise. That was the problem.
0:31:01And so that's been really good. That's been a very successful part of our business over the last couple years, having people come in and help.
0:31:10The reason I was laughing just now is I am reminded of a call that me and you had a couple of months ago where I basically demanded that you do it.
0:31:17Like that there was just tasks that you were doing that you didn't need to do anymore that we could pay somebody to do.
0:31:22And you were very hesitant of it.
0:31:24And I understand because it's within your nature to want to manage that stuff.
0:31:28Yes, and you were right, and it's been amazing to have helped in certain things.
0:31:33Yes.
0:31:33And so that's something that I continue to look at and continue to make decisions about
0:31:38what I need to do, what I can give to other people. And there will always be parts of
0:31:44the work that are just my favorites, and there's other things that sort of fall to me naturally
0:31:49with my skill set, but there are lots of other things that lots of people can help with. So
0:31:54that has been something I've had to learn and it's been good, it's been really good,
0:31:58but it was a lesson to learn. Here's a great question from Kate, this is for you Stephen,
0:32:04you've had lots of show changes in the past year, you joined MacPower users, you had subnet,
0:32:09query and download or retire, what are or were the different challenges of the shows, what have
0:32:14you learned from them and what is going on with you? That's quite the body count when you list
0:32:18I'm all out. So I joined Mac Power Users in January, but that move was in the works for some
0:32:25time. When David asked me to join, it was a couple months before or whenever it was. And I knew then,
0:32:33he and I talked about it, you and I talked about it, the three of us talked about it,
0:32:36I talked to Katie about it, a lot of conversations to make sure this was the right decision.
0:32:40I knew when I accepted the role of co-host on MPU, that it was going to require a lot of time
0:32:48and energy from me. And I didn't have that in my schedule when I said yes. And so I looked at what
0:32:55I was doing. And query in particular, I knew kind of right off the bat that it was probably time to
0:33:02wind it down. The query and MPU are related in a way and query if you're not familiar with it,
0:33:07you probably aren't it wasn't hugely successful. But it was a show where we sort of answered tech
0:33:11questions from the audience. And it's straight into MPU territory quite often, as you would
0:33:15imagine. And I knew that I didn't want to do two shows that were that alike. And looking at
0:33:22The Raw Numbers, Quarry just wasn't that big of a show, and so it was kind of an easy decision to
0:33:27let that go. It was hard because I hosted that show originally with Serendi Caldwell,
0:33:32who is amazing. It was her idea, and I just kind of came on to help with it. And then she had a
0:33:39career change, and I was joined by Micah, and I couldn't ask for two better co-hosts for that
0:33:43show. I love both Serenity and Micah deeply. And that made it hard. And it made it hard to,
0:33:49like, I called Serenity and was like, "I think I have to, like, the thing we created, I have to
0:33:52move on from." And she was very supportive in that, as was Micah. He really understood it. So
0:33:57that was important to me that we ended it correctly. Subnet was a little bit different.
0:34:02Subnet was a daily show, five days a week we had for a long time. Most of that year, doing, like,
0:34:10tech headlines, like quick tech headlines. A lot of people have
0:34:12sent on their smart speakers. Daily is just hard. And I had
0:34:16helped with it. Part of the way through where Jason took some
0:34:18Micah took some, but it just got to a point where it was not a
0:34:23lot of work, but it was work every day. And it was it kind of
0:34:27felt like shackles on my to do list every day to do that show
0:34:31at the end of the day. And, and I really wanted the the overhead
0:34:36back from from those projects. And so by the time I joined MPU, subnet and query had been
0:34:43marked as retired downloads a little bit different download is a show I did with Jason Stell. Again,
0:34:48it was tech headlines, but in like a panel discussion format. I still believe in that
0:34:52idea of a show. But it's kind of got to a point where Jason and I couldn't put into it what we
0:34:58needed to and we thought about doing a host change. That's really tricky. We kind of decided
0:35:03that at least for now that idea is sort of had its run. I still believe in that show format. I
0:35:10still want a show like that on Relay FM, but it was kind of clear that download wasn't quite
0:35:15what we wanted it to be. And I'm very proud of that show as well. Jason and I, I think we did
0:35:21a really good job, just to speak candidly, with the the panel members that we had. That we had
0:35:29lots of diverse voices on that show.
0:35:31And that was really important to us.
0:35:33And it was important to talk with people
0:35:35who were experts in their field
0:35:36and talk to people who really know their stuff.
0:35:39And it was a lot of fun to get to know a lot of people
0:35:41through downloads, a lot of friends of mine now
0:35:43that I've met in this industry,
0:35:44because they were download guests
0:35:45and that was our first interaction.
0:35:47So something like that, I think,
0:35:49could come back at some point.
0:35:50But those were kind of the challenge of the shows
0:35:53and why we wound them down.
0:35:55MPU has been extremely rewarding.
0:35:58The audience of MPU is fantastic.
0:36:01They are extremely engaged, extremely involved in the show,
0:36:06and they've really welcomed me with open arms.
0:36:10You know, it's a big change to change a host
0:36:12after nine years, and I went into it knowing that,
0:36:16and knowing that I had to prove that I was,
0:36:19you know, that David had made the right choice,
0:36:21and I think now, nine months into it or whatever,
0:36:25that it's gone really well, and the show is healthy,
0:36:27and the audience is just as engaged as they were before.
0:36:30So I think we've transitioned smoothly.
0:36:33And for anyone who listens to MPU,
0:36:35I appreciate you taking a chance on me
0:36:40knowing that it does change the show fundamentally.
0:36:43But I think it's doing really well.
0:36:46- A change show is not a bad show.
0:36:48It's just changed.
0:36:49- Just changed.
0:36:50- I wanna say a little bit about Subnet and Download.
0:36:53- Okay.
0:36:54- They were both experiments.
0:36:57Subnet was an experiment in working on a completely different format to be
0:37:02delivered via a different medium, which is to be like Echos and Google Homes and
0:37:07stuff like that. And that was a project that we started when we were approached
0:37:12by Anchor to kind of see if we wanted to make content like that. And we tried it
0:37:18and ultimately realized that that experiment was never going to lead
0:37:21anywhere that we were really that happy with under that kind of guise, right?
0:37:25Like, it was a time sink for you and I could never work out how we would make money on
0:37:31it.
0:37:32And at that point it seemed like, okay, this isn't right for now.
0:37:37Later on this might be a thing that we can work out, but it wasn't a good use of your
0:37:41time and so maybe there's something else that we could do in the future with it.
0:37:45And download was an experiment in like, and we've got questions about this later so again
0:37:50I won't say too much about it right now, but like can we push out into wider technology?
0:37:55And the answer was yes, but we couldn't break it to the level that you and Jason wanted,
0:38:01right?
0:38:02The show was very successful, but it wasn't as successful as our Apple-focused shows.
0:38:09So it got to the point where you both wanted to focus on things that were better for you.
0:38:16So they were both experiments and they were successful to a point, but neither of them
0:38:21got to where we wanted to be.
0:38:23And I think as a company, we're trying to be a little bit more focused on that, right?
0:38:28Like we can take some risks, but if they're not going to work, then we've got to be willing
0:38:32to let them go.
0:38:35Is that fair to say?
0:38:36I know that your shows, I don't want to speak for you, but yeah, no, no, it is.
0:38:40And I think that download may have been more successful in our goal of breaking past Apple
0:38:45if Jason had been paired with somebody who wasn't so Apple centric as I am.
0:38:49And like that was just a staffing issue.
0:38:51that that may have hurt it. But it was also interesting to doing some that download at
0:38:56the same time was actually great because to prep for download, like I was already doing the work
0:39:01every day with subnet looking for the three tech hons of the day. So with download picking the four
0:39:04for the week is like here already 12 like let's just pick out of here what seems to be the most
0:39:09important. So they were very influential on each other. And when subnet ended download kept going
0:39:15for another six months. I felt that difference was like, oh, like, I didn't realize how much heavy
0:39:19lifting subnet was doing for download, just like an interesting thing behind the scenes. But yeah,
0:39:25we you know, experimented with it, it didn't pan out. That doesn't mean it was a bad idea. It just
0:39:29means that that specific execution didn't do quite what we wanted it to do. Alright, we have
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0:41:20All right, so the next question comes from Kate.
0:41:23Kate wants to know, what is your favorite new thing,
0:41:25work-related or otherwise, that you
0:41:27have started doing this year?
0:41:29Oh, man.
0:41:30I kind of want to answer otherwise.
0:41:32We're talking a lot about work.
0:41:33You should answer.
0:41:34Otherwise was in that, so you should answer otherwise.
0:41:36So I'm going to answer otherwise.
0:41:38I have gotten into fishing again this year.
0:41:41So I did that as a kid, and I've been doing more of it.
0:41:44My daughter enjoys it.
0:41:45My dad enjoys it.
0:41:47We've been several times.
0:41:49And it's really nice to not be on the internet
0:41:52and go do something outside.
0:41:54And so that is an otherwise thing for me.
0:41:57As far as work, look, I'm having a ball on Mac Power Users.
0:42:02It's working with David Sparks is a dream come true.
0:42:05Working with that audience is amazing.
0:42:07I love that I can get super nerdy about the Finder
0:42:08and Federico isn't rolling his eyes like he does here.
0:42:12So MPU has just been like seriously bucket list type stuff
0:42:15as far as work.
0:42:16- I can't really think of anything I'm doing personally.
0:42:20I mean I have other work related projects,
0:42:22like getting into product manufacturing
0:42:25has been pretty interesting for me
0:42:26and it's something I wanna keep working on.
0:42:28But my kind of work thing is this year
0:42:33started to hand over editing projects to the very wonderful and talented Jim
0:42:38Metzendorf who helps us out with a selection of shows and having somebody
0:42:43who I trust edit some shows for me instead of me doing them has been like a
0:42:48really nice thing. It's been great for the regular shows that I have that I've
0:42:52handed to Jim but it's also really great when like I have a particularly
0:42:56difficult edit that I haven't got time to do for whatever reason I can just ask
0:43:01gym to do it for me and he'll do it and that's been like given me a lot of
0:43:07stress relief and freedom and time back so that's been one of my favorite work
0:43:12things that I've done for myself this year rather than like making things
0:43:16better for everybody else it's like it was just like a thing for me to help my
0:43:18working life yeah right but like there are things that we always try and do in
0:43:22the company to make things better but like this is for me for my own work
0:43:25right which is making the shows so that's been like a really wonderful
0:43:29thing for me. It's been good and I can see the change in your work with Jim
0:43:36taking over more of your editing. So yeah because you get you get the invoice so
0:43:41you just see me like that dude I do literally see the change. No it's great and
0:43:49I've used him for a few things and he's gonna do the connected game show which
0:43:53I've apologized to him in advance of how crazy that's gonna be. So mm-hmm trust Jim
0:43:58with it. It's the best. Kyle wants to know what is your favorite non relay podcast? It's
0:44:05either wonderful by Griffin and Rachel McElroy or Dubai Friday. I will I will second Dubai Friday.
0:44:13I'm also really enjoying app stories that John and Federico do that it's kind of partially behind the
0:44:20scenes at Mac stories, partially interviews topic stuff, but they do it sort of in a Mac stories way
0:44:26and I don't miss an episode.
0:44:29I was trying to scroll through my overcast
0:44:32to find something that is not tech-ish.
0:44:35One that's half tech, half creative stuff
0:44:38is the Stallman podcast by our friend Tyler Stallman.
0:44:40He does interviews with creators and talks about tech,
0:44:43and even if I'm not super into the world
0:44:47that he's talking about, he does such a good job
0:44:50explaining things and getting good stuff out of people
0:44:53interviews that you know you have not I'm not really trying to choose between
0:44:56Final Cut and Premiere but I'll listen to an hour of him talking to people
0:44:59about it because it's he makes it so interesting. Yeah he's also very talented.
0:45:03I have been trying to listen to less technology shows obviously I love them
0:45:09but because I make them I'm trying to have less like input of it so I feel
0:45:17like my thoughts can be more organically generated from me than listening to other people and
0:45:24then feel like I'm repeating what they're saying or like hesitating from saying something
0:45:30or talking about something because I'm concerned that all this is just like what I heard on
0:45:34such and such show. I don't want to be kind of like restricted like that. So I do listen
0:45:41to a couple of the big tech shows. I mean, if you're thinking about it, I'm probably
0:45:45into it, but the shows that I'm adding into my life, I'm trying to make them more entertainment
0:45:51than technology.
0:45:52Yeah, I think that's, I think that can be wise.
0:45:55And I go through periods where I don't listen to many tech podcasts at all, or just don't
0:45:59listen to many podcasts.
0:46:00You know, I sort of have seasons where I back off, but it's, there's so much good stuff
0:46:06out there, right?
0:46:07Like we could name a ton of podcasts and just this would go on forever.
0:46:10So we should move on.
0:46:12So Kevin asks, how do you battle possible fatigue covering Apple News on multiple shows?
0:46:17I imagine it must be tough to find your own take multiple times a week.
0:46:21I think you should answer this because you have two new shows you have upgraded connected
0:46:25while very different.
0:46:26There's a lot of topic overlap.
0:46:27So this this I toss this to you.
0:46:31I work very, very, very hard on this.
0:46:34I try as good, like I try as hard as possible to not have overlap.
0:46:41So there will be a lot of times where like you might say,
0:46:45should we talk about this on connected? And I'm like,
0:46:48I don't want to talk about it cause I've just spoke about it like for 45 minutes
0:46:50on upgrade and like, and I just don't want to repeat myself.
0:46:53So like we try and work on other topics or if we are going to cover something,
0:46:58I typically, you probably don't even notice this,
0:47:01but like if there's a topic that was on upgrade and connected,
0:47:04I either A) don't say much about it on connected because I've already said
0:47:09everything or B) there are times where I have kept specific things for the other
0:47:15show so like I have thoughts for one show and thoughts for another show so
0:47:19I'm not repeating myself constantly right like that is like a big thing that
0:47:23I try and do because I don't want to do that I don't want to do it for me let
0:47:27alone for the listener like I don't want to just keep saying the same things over
0:47:30over and over again. So I try to keep a split between the two of them because I think it's
0:47:35very possible to do it. There is enough topics most weeks that it can be done that way. And
0:47:40I try not to repeat myself. So that's how. And to be honest, I think that I do a pretty
0:47:46good job about it because I never get complaints about it. I feel like the only times people
0:47:50ever do complain about it to me, at least what I've seen, I don't know if those people
0:47:54listen to the shows like they just see that I do two shows that are focused on Apple News.
0:47:58But yeah, that's kind of my thing and like there are things over time that have naturally become
0:48:05the beat of one show or the other. Right. Right. So like, for example, I started talking about
0:48:11folding phones on upgrade. And I don't really think Jason cared too much about me to give him
0:48:16my Samsung Galaxy Fold update every week. So it came here. So it came here because you guys were
0:48:21more interested in me talking about it. Sure, if that's what you think is happening, that's fine.
0:48:26Yeah, exactly. Or at least you will be more willing to just let me do it. I don't know.
0:48:30But like, there are things that over time have just settled into each show, dependent on like
0:48:37the overlapping interests. Like for example, upstream. Talking about streaming services and
0:48:43the content is way more a me and Jason thing than it would be with you two, right? Because I don't
0:48:49think that you two care about the inner workings of NBC too much but me and Jason seem to really
0:48:53care about it because Jason cares about the entertainment. I really am just fascinated in
0:48:58the way that businesses work so that's why that works. So like you know each show has its own
0:49:03things on the face of it they seem like they would be the same but they're actually not at all.
0:49:09Yep I think that's a good answer. I have no complaints.
0:49:12Dr. Geek asks do you feel that Relay is too Apple centric rather than technology as a whole?
0:49:17I would say there's always room to add non Apple tech stuff like we did with download.
0:49:22There are a couple of things though, if you look at the wider like tech podcasting scene,
0:49:28it is a lot of Apple centric stuff. Of course, we have material that covers Google and Android.
0:49:33But like, you'd be hard pressed to find a really successful or a handful of successful shows,
0:49:40covering like Microsoft and Windows or covering Amazon and its products. So I don't think there's
0:49:46really room for like a Windows focused PC focused show. But I think there there is always room to go
0:49:52a little bit broader. For us. We started is sort of in this area covering Apple is most of the
0:49:59people we work with cover Apple. And I feel like we've done a good job at diversifying the types
0:50:06of shows that cover this stuff. And you know, things like upgrade, which you know, also cover
0:50:09media streaming, like you said, adding things to it organically. But it hasn't been a problem. And
0:50:15And in fact, there are strengths to it that sponsors who have products or services that
0:50:23integrate into the Apple ecosystem, or they want Apple's customers to be their customers,
0:50:28you know, we are in a good position as far as that's concerned.
0:50:30So it hasn't ever really, I don't think it's ever really a problem.
0:50:34And I don't think Apple's gonna go out of business anytime soon.
0:50:37So I think we're okay there too.
0:50:39I don't think it's an issue.
0:50:41Like, I don't think really FM needs to be all things to all people.
0:50:45it's just not a thing that we need to do, right? We do have an audience focus, that's
0:50:51kind of where we fit, and that's just kind of where we are. We have a lot of shows that
0:50:57are not about Appleton. Honestly, if you look at our roster today, our roster of shows,
0:51:03that is not the majority anymore, like talking about Apple. It's not by any stretch of the
0:51:09imagination.
0:51:10We've got video game coverage, we have space with Liftoff, we have creativity in art, design
0:51:19development.
0:51:20Weird Wikipedia articles.
0:51:22Yes, that's the key.
0:51:24Lists of things.
0:51:26I just think that it's not the majority of shows anymore.
0:51:30The people that host them are mostly in that world.
0:51:35That's a different thing.
0:51:36I think that's maybe why it feels that way.
0:51:37All right, Hunter asks, "You have so many shows centered
0:51:40around technology that assume the audience has
0:51:42some basic knowledge of how computers work.
0:51:44Would you consider a show focused on the basic whys
0:51:48and hows of computing?"
0:51:49So this question made me think of query.
0:51:53And query had sort of this fundamental issue
0:51:56at the heart of it of people that
0:51:58have these sorts of questions aren't podcast listeners.
0:52:02And if they are, they're not listening
0:52:05to podcasts on tech networks, right?
0:52:08They're listening to mainstream stuff.
0:52:10And so there's that issue where there's a mismatch
0:52:15of desired audience and actual audience.
0:52:18There's also the thing that I also struggled with on query.
0:52:20And MPU, we do a pretty good job of this
0:52:22'cause David has so much experience in it
0:52:24and I'm learning kind of from him how to do this better.
0:52:27But it's actually kind of hard to explain
0:52:30some concepts in technology,
0:52:32especially basic concepts, just over audio.
0:52:35You do need some sort of common denominator of understanding
0:52:40to make that work.
0:52:41So for instance, we did an episode of "NPU"
0:52:44a while back about Keyboard Maestro.
0:52:46And we spent the first 20 minutes
0:52:48talking about the interface of Keyboard Maestro.
0:52:50But really, that show was designed for you
0:52:52to go, look at the show notes, and maybe
0:52:54download the trial of the app and listen
0:52:55as you're checking it out.
0:52:57There's a tricky line to walk there.
0:53:00But having a show that's really focused on the basics,
0:53:03that could probably work on YouTube,
0:53:04that can work on the web,
0:53:05I don't know if it works in podcasting as well.
0:53:08- That is a very good answer that I was not thinking of,
0:53:11so you did a much better job than I would have
0:53:13at that question, so thank you for taking that one.
0:53:15- You bet.
0:53:16- Kate wants to know, what is it like employing someone?
0:53:18How has it changed the split of roles between the two of us,
0:53:21and how has the roles of these people changed over time?
0:53:25We have five contractors now that we work with, right? Five, six people that have
0:53:34various levels of time that they give to us from a few hours a month to like 20 hours a week,
0:53:44you know? There's like a scale that we have across the different people that we work with.
0:53:48It's definitely changed the way that we work, me and you, because we don't have to do all the
0:53:54things anymore and has changed our jobs in the sense that we have a lot more
0:53:58things that we're just working on oversight of as opposed to like the
0:54:02actual nuts and bolts. You know my kind of feeling on like what is it like
0:54:05employing someone if you find the right person it's fantastic. That's well
0:54:10said. I think too I think it changes the way we work because we're not just
0:54:14working alone so like if we have an idea for something or we want to change
0:54:20something, we are now working with the people who would be involved in that, right?
0:54:26So when you're talking about the sales process, or again, this live show is just in my mind,
0:54:31so I apologize, I keep using this example.
0:54:33There's a lot of moving parts there, and so I have help doing some of these things that
0:54:38in the past I would have done by myself, and it would have been really stressful.
0:54:43And having somebody come alongside me and take some of those things, and I trust them
0:54:47that it will be done correctly in the way that I want and all those things is a huge,
0:54:53a huge deal. And it frees us up to focus on what we need to focus on, but also like honestly,
0:54:58we're a better company for it. We're a better company for having these other people helping
0:55:02us and bringing their expertise and their know-how and their attention to detail to
0:55:08their various components of the company that they touch.
0:55:10There is like an incredibly valuable thing in having somebody say to you, "Why do you
0:55:14do it this way?"
0:55:15Uh huh.
0:55:16So I don't know.
0:55:17Because that's how we've always done it.
0:55:19Because in 2015, we didn't know what we were doing.
0:55:21Yeah.
0:55:22So we do it that way for like four more years.
0:55:25Yeah, we run way better now because we have other people.
0:55:28Like when you're not just doing something on your own,
0:55:31when you have other people that you're working with,
0:55:33it forces you to standardize some stuff.
0:55:35And that is very valuable.
0:55:38Yeah, it also allows us to be more ambitious with things
0:55:43because we're able to grow.
0:55:45So that's been really great.
0:55:46You know, I guess kind of we still do have a division between us, right.
0:55:50And like who manages what in our company.
0:55:53And the way that it works is like those contractors naturally sit
0:55:57in the divisions that me and Steven have created for ourselves.
0:56:00So like I very rarely interact with a wonderful developer
0:56:05because it's just not.
0:56:08I can't help.
0:56:10So it's pointless.
0:56:11I tell all I do is tend to cause work for him in like not a good way, you know, just
0:56:18like, what about this, this, this, this, this, and this, and then I leave the slack room.
0:56:22But you know, it's just that is your skill set, like, so you manage that. And it works
0:56:28well that way.
0:56:29Yeah, I take your crazy ideas and I
0:56:31filter them,
0:56:33filter them. That's, that's the word I was looking for. And yeah, I mean, and you know,
0:56:38handle the sales side of the company, right? I'm not out there selling ads. We
0:56:43tried that. I'm really bad at it, like hilariously bad at it, and you and that
0:56:49part of the company, you know, I can speak into that if I have an idea or a
0:56:53question, but that's sort of your side. And so when things come in to our shared
0:56:57inbox or there's a question from a host, you and I know kind of who needs to pick
0:57:02that up. Very rarely is there something that comes into the company that I'm like,
0:57:05I'm not actually sure who should do this."
0:57:08Or you know, it's become very clear every time.
0:57:12Gray gave us this advice years ago of like, we should have a, what's the word I'm looking
0:57:17for Myke?
0:57:18Silo.
0:57:19An organizational chart.
0:57:21Oh no, that didn't come from Gray, it came from a book that we read on Cortex.
0:57:24Close enough.
0:57:25I give Gray credit.
0:57:26He's not going to hear this.
0:57:27It came from a book that y'all read on Cortex.
0:57:32An organizational chart makes a lot of sense.
0:57:34And we did that when we were a company of two.
0:57:36We did that years ago.
0:57:37And as we've added roles and as we've expanded what we do,
0:57:42that is still the template for where things go.
0:57:45And honestly, I think we did a pretty good job
0:57:47when we did that because we haven't changed much of it
0:57:49over the years.
0:57:50We've just expanded based on it.
0:57:51- Yeah, 'cause I think we haven't really moved
0:57:55into other areas, right?
0:57:57Or just August, maybe like when we started doing
0:58:00more merchandise stuff,
0:58:01that just felt like something that was naturally your thing. The E myth revisited was the book,
0:58:07bad book, good piece of advice. Alright, before we move on to our next set of questions I want
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0:59:34FM. Alright, Brian asks, Is there any podcasting gear that
0:59:38you are currently desiring?
0:59:40No, I put this in for you. Like I don't want to touch anything
0:59:45in my setup. I'm pretty happy.
0:59:47I just bought something for our live show. I was limited to
0:59:51Recording four tracks at once on my previous recorder and now I can do ten. I bought what is it?
0:59:56We bought the sound devices. Hang on. I like the way I like like when we wait
1:00:01Well, I mean, I mean as you're like it has literally anything to do with me. I mean, it's your money, too
1:00:06I'm looking at the box sound devices mix pre 10. Is it the 10 or the 10 T? Ooh
1:00:1210 T don't know if there is a 10 10 T. Maybe it's just 10 T
1:00:18I don't know what the T isn't there for.
1:00:21Totally awesome, I think.
1:00:23So that will go out for the first time in our San Francisco show.
1:00:26So I had a picture on Instagram a couple days ago setting it up in my office and getting
1:00:30all the settings the way I want them and stuff.
1:00:32It's a really incredible piece of hardware.
1:00:34You know, past that, at this point, I really only buy gear when something breaks or my
1:00:40needs expand like this that makes pre-10T.
1:00:43I would not just go out and buy this, but we had a need and we want to do bigger, more
1:00:47ambitious things so more tracks at once is important so we now own that. Usually
1:00:52what happens is Stephen's like hmm this is gonna be difficult to do with the
1:00:56gear and I'm like alright so what other options do we have and he goes away
1:01:00and he looks it's like well there's this thing but I don't know and so just buy it.
1:01:03Yeah pretty much out goes. We are an audio company like we need gear there's no
1:01:08harm because then you're like oh so let's just keep it all like just you
1:01:10have a big club cabinets just put the gear in the cabinet because we're not
1:01:15always gonna need the 10T. Sometimes we might need the 6 or whatever it was you
1:01:18heard before. Like you do not need to bring the 10T to San Jose because we
1:01:22don't need 6 microphones next year. We're just gonna need 3. But it's super cool. But you have the
1:01:27smaller one is just as good right? This is a wild question.
1:01:32Majd asks which podcast do you feel most like your regular self when you
1:01:39recall? This came from the chat room. That is so good. That is so good and I don't
1:01:44know... all right so I feel like every show that I do by and large has just like a
1:01:51different part of who I am in it depending on what is needed right? I
1:01:56would say that like it's probably this show or Bonanza where I'm more just like
1:02:03who I am as opposed to like holding something back specifically because it's
1:02:08not really appropriate for the show. Business Myke. Yeah it's like if you're
1:02:12being serious, which I feel like I'm being serious on most of my other shows by and large,
1:02:19right? Cortex is pretty relaxed, but we have quite a narrow subject kind of area that we
1:02:28pull from, right? Maybe playing for fun as well a little bit, but yeah, the shows where
1:02:34I'm more relaxed are definitely where I'm more who I am most of the time.
1:02:40Yeah, I mean, I think Connected is it for me out of my four.
1:02:44We've been doing it the longest out of all the shows I do, and so we're the most comfortable
1:02:48with each other.
1:02:49It is the show that has the tendency to go off the rails, the easiest, you know.
1:02:54Which shows more of who you are, right?
1:02:56Yeah, yeah.
1:02:57I think in those scenarios.
1:02:58But it isn't always like appropriate.
1:03:00That's true.
1:03:01You know, Liftoff is pretty serious, MPU is pretty serious.
1:03:03A genius like in a way, like so I need you to script it.
1:03:06So I write those, even the jokes and everything, but we are playing roles on that show, right?
1:03:13There are jokes that I want to make.
1:03:15Yeah, because you make me a conspiracy theory acceptor all the time.
1:03:19Exactly.
1:03:20So they have like, we have lanes on that show.
1:03:23So I would say out of my four it's connected.
1:03:25Ted asks, "Do you think that Relay will ever start using video in podcasts?"
1:03:29I'm going to answer this in two parts.
1:03:31One, I think doing-
1:03:33No, two, maybe.
1:03:35[LAUGHTER]
1:03:37One, no.
1:03:38Two, yes.
1:03:39I think that if we just added video to what we do now,
1:03:42it would be incredibly boring and not very compelling.
1:03:46Because it's just people--
1:03:47I don't think it would add a lot.
1:03:48No, it's just people staring into a camera
1:03:50with a microphone and headphones.
1:03:52There is a universe where Relay does pure-- or adds
1:03:56some sort of video component that's way down the road,
1:03:59if ever, because that would require a lot more people
1:04:02and space and how do we do that when we're 100% remote.
1:04:05But I think doing like just making connected video podcasts just isn't
1:04:10interesting to me because it's just us sitting in the dark talking about
1:04:14computers.
1:04:15Zach asks, what are the origins of your switch on tagline
1:04:20that you saw have sort of had but have never used?
1:04:24And why haven't you ended up using it?
1:04:26This is 100 percent your thing.
1:04:29So if you're wondering like, like, what are you talking about?
1:04:32It's in the footer of our of our website.
1:04:35and it's in some Twitter banners, it pops up every now and then, switch on.
1:04:39Yeah, I mean I just felt like we needed a tagline, and so we did that and it just never got used.
1:04:45It's not in like the official logo we use, it's kind of in the footer sometimes.
1:04:50It used to be in more places than it is now.
1:04:52It has slowly faded.
1:04:54Because it never caught on and we never used it for any... like I never think about it until I see it.
1:04:59Do you even remember like why?
1:05:01No, like why switch on?
1:05:03Yeah.
1:05:04I mean, I think we just felt like we needed something more and I don't know, it never
1:05:09really went anywhere, it was fine.
1:05:10I mean, I naturally expect like we're doing this thing again where Simon's going to send
1:05:14us a message and be like, oh, I came up with that, like the entire name for the company.
1:05:18He did.
1:05:19Which is always funny.
1:05:20It's like, I don't remember where the name of our company came from.
1:05:21I'm sure, well, even me or Steven recommended it, but our designer Simon came up with it
1:05:26because he's a genius.
1:05:27And so I expect that he probably came up with Switch On as well, but you really like took
1:05:32it.
1:05:33This made me want to bring up relay.fm.
1:05:36Oh my gosh.
1:05:37Okay.
1:05:38Because you did it during the Pingdom ad.
1:05:40No, yeah I did.
1:05:42I was kind of like going for the URL.
1:05:44Uh huh.
1:05:45But you get the URLs on none of the other websites.
1:05:47But now if I edited that ad like I was going to, now I have to cut this out so you've created
1:05:51some sort of paradox in my editing?
1:05:52No, because you're going to have to keep that in because I'm talking about this whole "I
1:05:56want to talk about relay.fm" as a thing right now.
1:05:58Because this definitely ties into your feelings.
1:06:03So the switch on tagline was something that you really liked and I didn't dislike it,
1:06:07but you really wanted it used in a lot of places, right?
1:06:11Because you are a person who believes in consistency of branding, which has been very useful for
1:06:17us just from a branding perspective, which is why I also, in my mind, the design part
1:06:22of our business mostly falls in your remit, right?
1:06:25Because you're very good at that.
1:06:28But this also comes to the name of our company, right? The name of our company is Relay FM.
1:06:34That is the name of our company.
1:06:35Yes.
1:06:36A lot of people write it as Relay.fm, which I totally understand because it's our URL.
1:06:40If you're going to write something not correct, at least putting the URL in instead is good,
1:06:44right? Instead of calling it like Real FM, which we get a lot. R-E-A-L, which is hilarious.
1:06:51So like, you know, if you're going to do it that way. But that I know frustrates you greatly.
1:06:56But the funniest thing is the idea that when we launched, we decided we were never going
1:07:01to call it Relay.
1:07:02We would always refer to it as Relay FM.
1:07:06And when people started calling it Relay, it was like, "No, don't do it.
1:07:09Don't do that.
1:07:10Call it Relay FM."
1:07:11At this point, we've let that go completely.
1:07:14We have.
1:07:15Yeah, because we just lost that battle.
1:07:19But like, even me and you, like, just naturally, it just felt like, "Oh, I can't even keep
1:07:23hold of this."
1:07:24Right, that I would just call it Relay.
1:07:26So that's one thing that slipped away,
1:07:29is the idea of Relay FM.
1:07:30But the Relay.fm thing, I know is just like--
1:07:33It bothers me.
1:07:34You're never going to win that battle.
1:07:35But I agree with you that we have to try to keep it.
1:07:38Because our company's name is not Relay.fm.
1:07:41It is Relay FM.
1:07:42That is the company.
1:07:44But as I say, as far as getting something slightly wrong,
1:07:48having the actual URL is like, that works pretty good.
1:07:51It irks me sometimes when our hosts do it.
1:07:54That's really what irks me.
1:07:56But you did it.
1:07:57Well, I was going to fix it, but then we did all this.
1:08:01I just want everybody to know that you're fallible.
1:08:03On occasion, I make a tiny error.
1:08:06But yeah, switch on.
1:08:07Maybe one day we will have a new tagline that we'll use more.
1:08:11But for now, switch on.
1:08:13I think the only places on the website is in the footer.
1:08:16Yeah, and then there's a few Twitter banners.
1:08:18I remember when you were very, very consistent on Twitter
1:08:21banners all being the same.
1:08:22Yes.
1:08:23and the Twitter handles and I lost that too.
1:08:25The problem is with consistency--
1:08:27- Because our format of Twitter handles is bad.
1:08:28- It is bad.
1:08:29The problem with consistency is
1:08:30once you start adding people, you just lose, right?
1:08:33Like if it's just me and you doing everything,
1:08:35I can enforce it.
1:08:37- All right, so I wanna make a petition now
1:08:38to see if anybody can help us.
1:08:40@RelayFM has always been suspended.
1:08:44If anybody can help us get that, please help us.
1:08:48We have tried the trademark route.
1:08:49We have a trademark on our name.
1:08:51Twitter will not pay any attention to our requests.
1:08:53The reason that so many of our shows
1:08:55are underscore something FM
1:08:56is because we couldn't get relay FM.
1:08:59I would really like that Twitter handle.
1:09:01- Me too.
1:09:02- Like wouldn't that be nice to have?
1:09:04No one has used it in over five years it has been suspended.
1:09:09We would really like it.
1:09:10And then we could go for a little bit more consistency
1:09:12in our names by dropping the underscores where possible.
1:09:15- All right, Lee asks,
1:09:16how do you plan getting new voices onto the network
1:09:19rather than the usual rotation.
1:09:21- Can I answer this?
1:09:22- Sure.
1:09:23- So I've been thinking about this question a lot.
1:09:25I think that where we are today in 2019,
1:09:29I'm happy with the progress that we have made
1:09:31from when we started.
1:09:33When we started, we had zero diversity in our host makeup.
1:09:38And since then, we have worked very hard
1:09:43to try and balance that a little bit better.
1:09:46I'm happy with the progress we've made.
1:09:47there is always more progress to make, right?
1:09:50Like you can always continue to go down that route.
1:09:53So I, you know, we are always gonna continue working on it.
1:09:57I am happy that I believe that we have helped
1:10:00some shows get off the ground with hosts
1:10:02that were new to podcasting.
1:10:04Well, I know that they were, right?
1:10:05Like we have helped many people, it was like their first show
1:10:08they've been as part of a panel and that's really great.
1:10:11And I would like for us to continue to keep doing that.
1:10:16Unfortunately, we do not have the ability to work with everyone that we would want to.
1:10:21As it stands right now, we have very limited resources that we're able to... because we're
1:10:26very involved, right, to a point.
1:10:29And I think that we have limited resources.
1:10:32Even if we never need to interact with the host of a show, still having any show on the
1:10:38network takes resources from us.
1:10:41Like attention and making sure that everything's taken care of.
1:10:45Because I don't want anybody to ever be on relay FM and it's like, oh, it's basically
1:10:50like just having an account at Libsyn, right?
1:10:53Exactly.
1:10:54Because we're not a podcast host, right?
1:10:57We are not a place where someone just hosts a show.
1:11:00We don't want to be like that.
1:11:01So we don't have the ability to take really any of the pitches that we get because we
1:11:06get daily people wanting to have shows on the network.
1:11:11And it's just not something that we're able to do.
1:11:13And one of the reasons for this is because we cannot guarantee success for any person
1:11:18or any show.
1:11:19And this is especially true for people that are brand new.
1:11:22So we give resources and advice and assistance, but it is impossible for us to help somebody
1:11:29find a sizable and long lasting audience.
1:11:31This is not a thing.
1:11:33We are not able to take Real AFM listeners and just point them towards a new show.
1:11:39We can do everything we can to promote it.
1:11:41We can mention it.
1:11:42We can have it.
1:11:43not a thing where we can guarantee success for somebody. This is just not a thing. I
1:11:47wished it was, but it isn't. So we can give all of the assistance that we can, but we
1:11:53can never make guarantees. So this is something that needs to come from the show, the individuals
1:11:59from the content to help grow something. So we have to continue to find a balance between
1:12:04new people and people with existing audiences. Because if we have limited time, considering
1:12:09we are a business, like we need our shows to make sense for us.
1:12:13And if people want to make money from a show, they have to have an audience
1:12:18that they're bringing to the show.
1:12:19And there isn't too much, unfortunately, that we are able to do to guarantee
1:12:25that for someone. We cannot guarantee it.
1:12:26So basically, this is a really long way of saying I think we have brought a lot
1:12:31of people in that you may have never heard of before, but now they're like
1:12:35really popular and successful people.
1:12:38We are continuing to try and do that.
1:12:40We have a show launching pretty soon that has a host that I would expect
1:12:46the vast majority of our audience has never heard of before
1:12:48because they're in a completely different world to technology.
1:12:50So we're going to keep trying to do that,
1:12:53but we can't really just take pictures anymore.
1:12:58I mean, it tends to be that a show that we launch on Relay,
1:13:01one of the hosts is known to us or known to someone on our network.
1:13:05And there's been like, I think that you should talk to this person kind of thing.
1:13:08because that's just where we are. We are at a stage right now where we can't add
1:13:13shows very easily. So when we do add shows we do think long and hard about
1:13:20the makeup of the people because we are not in a position anymore where we can
1:13:25just add as many shows as we want. So when we have a new opportunity come our
1:13:28way we're like is this meeting the goals that we have as a company for what we
1:13:32want our diversity to look like and we just keep working on it and we keep
1:13:35trying but we're not in really a place where we can just do everything. I hope
1:13:42that that has answered the question.
1:13:44Yeah, well said. I don't have anything to add.
1:13:46Max asks, "I was curious what traits you find are best in a host. Who do you like
1:13:52and what do you like listening to and what do you look for in hosts for shows?"
1:13:55I think it's somebody who has a point of view and a voice that is unique but also
1:14:04like with that on the the opposite of the coin is somebody who can do it for
1:14:08like the long haul there are lots of people who have good ideas but we want
1:14:13to work with people and want to do projects that are long-lasting and if
1:14:17you look at our roster over the five over the five years there have been
1:14:22shows that have ended I spoke about you know three of them that I know the vast
1:14:26majority of shows that have ended have come from you yes I'm at the graves for
1:14:30all three of those shows myself.
1:14:32But really, most of our shows last a long time
1:14:35and we wanna have relationships with hosts that span years.
1:14:39And so that's something we always look at too,
1:14:41both from an idea perspective and a host perspective.
1:14:43But somebody who can bring something unique to the table
1:14:45with their background, their expertise,
1:14:49their view of the world that is unique and interesting,
1:14:53that seems really easy, but it's not.
1:14:57And I think for both of us, we've either had always
1:15:03or have learned kind of what that means
1:15:06and what that looks like in different content areas.
1:15:10And our final question comes from Odin.
1:15:12What a name.
1:15:13Who asks?
1:15:14I know.
1:15:14I don't think-- I'm not sure if this is their real name.
1:15:16It may be the name that they choose on Twitter.
1:15:18I hope it is their real name.
1:15:20Maybe they're the real Odin.
1:15:21Oh, boy.
1:15:22Then this question has even more gravity now
1:15:24that Odin was Lord of Thunder.
1:15:26God of Thunder is asking this.
1:15:28Oh, no, Thor is God of Thunder.
1:15:30Odin is just like, anyway, Odin's Thor's dad,
1:15:32but I don't remember what Odin is God of, if anything.
1:15:35Anyway, how has your company strategy changed
1:15:38as you look at the next five years?
1:15:40How will you ensure that you keep trying new things?
1:15:42I don't think you have to keep trying new things, do you?
1:15:45Is that a thing?
1:15:47- I think that you need, we need, we are,
1:15:50like I think we've done a good job of this,
1:15:51of evolving our idea over time,
1:15:54and evolving what a relay FM show is, and how it works,
1:15:59that is something we will always look at.
1:16:03We always wanna make sure that we're remaining relevant,
1:16:04and we wanna make sure that we're remaining interesting.
1:16:07- And maybe that's what new things means, right?
1:16:10Sometimes. - Yes.
1:16:11I don't think new things mean that we're going to start
1:16:14all of a sudden a YouTube channel,
1:16:16or we're going to start a consulting firm
1:16:19you and I are doing something on the side, you know, based on
1:16:23really like, I don't think it's that stuff. For me, it's always
1:16:27remembering what works and and how we got to where we are
1:16:31through hard work of ourselves and hard work of other people.
1:16:34And the relationships we have with our hosts, that's the most
1:16:36important thing to me. And, and making sure that that recipe is
1:16:42always tended to and that it works in the environment that
1:16:44we're in. And our industry has seen a lot of change over the
1:16:48last five years and I think the next five years could see even more change
1:16:52with more players coming in, companies, big media companies coming in spending
1:16:59lots of money, doing lots of things. Some will be successful, some will not. Through
1:17:04all of that what what will keep Relay FM alive and well is us... Relay.fm.
1:17:10Relay.fm switch on. What will keep us switching on is really remembering and
1:17:18focusing on what makes relay stuff good, but with an eye cut towards, are there any big
1:17:23shifts happening in the larger ecosystem that we need to be aware of? And so far, just candidly,
1:17:30there haven't been many, you have companies doing big stuff. Now that's really affected us. We work
1:17:36with some of those companies, we know a lot of people doing interesting things. But what what
1:17:41has made relay from successful for the last five years, that will be a thread through the next
1:17:45five, I guarantee it.
1:17:47I love that answer. What a great way to finish. Switch off, Stephen.
1:17:50Switch off! Someone had a really good idea in the chat room that we should replace switch on with
1:17:56a text from the challenge coin, which also for sale in the store, the text is creative,
1:18:02curious, obsessive. That is our actual, like, we came up with that as like the secondary tagline,
1:18:09I guess, but didn't use it everywhere. Relay FM is an independent podcast network of people who
1:18:14who are creative, curious, and maybe a little obsessive.
1:18:17Just like its hosts.
1:18:18Yeah, it should say creative, curious, obsessive.
1:18:20I like that.
1:18:21Who came up with that?
1:18:21- That was, I'm scrolling in the chatroom, I'm sorry.
1:18:24Dave G.
1:18:26- Thanks, Dave G.
1:18:27- Thanks, Dave G.
1:18:28Dave G, if you don't own a challenge coin,
1:18:30shoot me an email.
1:18:31We'll send you one.
1:18:32- Oh, damn, son.
1:18:33Look at that.
1:18:34- You have to prove you're Dave G somehow
1:18:35because IRC is useless.
1:18:38All right, so there are some links in the show notes.
1:18:41Mostly we just talked about ourselves, so sorry about that.
1:18:44But you can find those at relay.fm/connected/256.
1:18:46Don't apologize.
1:18:47Be proud of yourself.
1:18:48256.
1:18:49You did this.
1:18:50You did this.
1:18:51Five years, you did this.
1:18:52Be proud of yourself.
1:18:53You did too.
1:18:54I'm just saying, I am proud of myself.
1:18:57Oh, don't worry.
1:18:57No one needs to tell me.
1:18:58No one needs to tell me.
1:18:59[LAUGHTER]
1:19:01If there's one thing I can do, it's be proud of myself.
1:19:03Totally fine.
1:19:05Own it, man.
1:19:05You did this.
1:19:06Yes.
1:19:07Don't apologize.
1:19:07Anyways, so there's some links there.
1:19:09If you're listening to this the day it comes out,
1:19:11the day after it comes out, and you
1:19:12You won a Relay FM 5th anniversary shirt.
1:19:14Time is running out, so go check that out over
1:19:17on cottonbureau.com/stores/relay-fm.
1:19:19Pins and Challenge claims.
1:19:21Still available.
1:19:22Go buy them.
1:19:22Sorry I just spoke over the URL.
1:19:24Say it again.
1:19:25I think it's relay.fm/store is the short version.
1:19:27Let's see if that redirects.
1:19:29Nice.
1:19:30You just go to Cotton Bureau and search Relay FM
1:19:32and you'll find it too.
1:19:32Or just make it your home page.
1:19:34I mean, honestly.
1:19:35So you'll always be ready for the new merch.
1:19:37That's right.
1:19:37Merch.
1:19:38Yeah, relay.fm/store.
1:19:40Yes, that redirects.
1:19:41That redirects.
1:19:42- After two redirects, but it will take you there.
1:19:44Don't worry about it, it's fine.
1:19:45- Let's not talk about that.
1:19:46- I don't wanna know what's holding that together.
1:19:49- Tape.
1:19:50Tape and luck.
1:19:51You can also check out our membership
1:19:53at relay.fm/membership.
1:19:56We love our members.
1:19:57We love everybody, but our members hold a special place
1:19:59in our heart, you know, can't lie.
1:20:02Favorites.
1:20:03One day Federico will be back.
1:20:04In the meantime, if you wanna follow him on Twitter,
1:20:06you can do so at Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.
1:20:09- He's not gonna be here next week.
1:20:11He's not going to be here next week because he's not coming to San Francisco.
1:20:14He used to write at MacStories.net at some point, a beautiful iOS review will appear.
1:20:19So stay tuned for that.
1:20:24He's like in it.
1:20:26He's not talking to us.
1:20:27He's like...
1:20:28Yeah, we spoke about this last time, right?
1:20:30We're just not really sure if he's...
1:20:32Like what's going on, if he's alive, if he's just all automated.
1:20:35I don't know.
1:20:36Oh my God.
1:20:37I was adding previous Q&As to the show notes and I came across this 2017 and it's a video
1:20:44and you look like a baby.
1:20:45I didn't have a beard.
1:20:47No beard.
1:20:48So the previous QAs will be in the show notes.
1:20:52Yep, that was as per request of Champion Question Ask a Kate.
1:20:56Including one in which I'm very sick.
1:20:59Very sick.
1:21:00You're always so sick for the important things.
1:21:02So you can follow Federico or what's left of him.
1:21:04You can follow Myke on Twitter @imyke.
1:21:08Myke, of course, is the host of a bunch of shows
1:21:10at relay.fm/shows.
1:21:12You can check those out.
1:21:14You can follow me on Twitter as ismh
1:21:16and I write 512pixels.net.
1:21:19I have to thank our sponsors this week,
1:21:20Pingdom, DoorDash, and Smile.
1:21:24And until I see you in just a couple days, Myke,
1:21:27say goodbye.
1:21:28- See you tomorrow.
1:21:29It's literally tomorrow.
1:21:31- Sweet dreams!
1:21:32(laughing)