Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected episode 256.

00:00:12 ◼   ► It's made possible by our sponsors,

00:00:14 ◼   ► Pingdom, Smile, and DoorDash.

00:00:17 ◼   ► I'm your host, Steven Hackett,

00:00:18 ◼   ► and I'm joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci.

00:00:21 ◼   ► (birds cawing)

00:00:25 ◼   ► [

00:00:35 ◼   ► Laughter ]

00:00:37 ◼   ► And by Mr. Myke Curley. Well, I'm here. Yeah, you're not on the beach.

00:00:42 ◼   ► Hello. Hey, how are you? I'm very good. Are you? I feel like you need to provide some follow-up

00:00:50 ◼   ► about how you're feeling. Oh, I fractured my spine. Well, you're... I don't think we need to

00:00:55 ◼   ► go into it any further than that, do we? A vertebrae. Well, I still have a spine. I could

00:01:00 ◼   ► say I broke it. I broke my back. I've been saying that to some people. All of these things are

00:01:04 ◼   ► somewhat true. Yeah, your spine is like the gooey bits. No, no, no, no. The spine is the bone.

00:01:08 ◼   ► You're thinking of the spinal cord. Maybe. I didn't touch that. Okay. Luckily, the doctor was

00:01:16 ◼   ► very happy to show me that my spinal cord was intact.

00:01:19 ◼   ► But yeah, you may remember a few episodes ago when I was ever so slightly merry at the

00:01:23 ◼   ► beach, one of the reasons is because I was trying to get the pain to go away because

00:01:28 ◼   ► either the day before or two days before I had a silly accident where I jumped off something

00:01:32 ◼   ► too high, had a bad landing.

00:01:34 ◼   ► Turns out after an MRI that I have indeed fractured a vertebrae in my lumbar spine,

00:01:40 ◼   ► which apparently the note says that now I am like medically 10% shorter, which I don't

00:01:45 ◼   ► fully understand what that means.

00:01:47 ◼   ► That seems like too much.

00:01:48 ◼   ► I assume that it must be like my spine is 10% smaller for the time being.

00:01:53 ◼   ► So that's fun.

00:01:54 ◼   ► Do your pants seem longer than they used to?

00:01:56 ◼   ► Like these were shorts and now they're jeans.

00:01:58 ◼   ► Yeah, it's weird.

00:01:59 ◼   ► I don't have to duck my head down anymore.

00:02:02 ◼   ► I don't really get what the 10% means.

00:02:04 ◼   ► It's one of those things where like, "Here's your report."

00:02:06 ◼   ► And it's like, "Here's a bunch of stuff I've never understood before."

00:02:10 ◼   ► But yeah, I'm dealing with a spinal injury.

00:02:15 ◼   ► I'm glad you are okay. I'm glad it's not more serious than it is.

00:02:18 ◼   ► It's a minor loss of anterior vertebral body height, so it's the height of my spine, basically.

00:02:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:27 ◼   ► But yeah, it's quite a thing.

00:02:29 ◼   ► Is it worth the rush that you felt?

00:02:31 ◼   ► No, if you see me in San Francisco when we're going to be there next week,

00:02:34 ◼   ► hug me gently, I guess, would be my request.

00:02:38 ◼   ► Well, we got that.

00:02:42 ◼   ► That's a good bit of follow-up, though, right?

00:02:44 ◼   ► It is.

00:02:44 ◼   ► Like, "Oh, follow up, I actually fractured my spine."

00:02:47 ◼   ► Just in one place. And there's no surgery or anything, right? You just have to take it easy.

00:02:52 ◼   ► 12 weeks of recovery.

00:02:54 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:54 ◼   ► Where I was told, and I quote, to avoid pain.

00:02:57 ◼   ► Like, in life?

00:03:01 ◼   ► That was the advice I was given.

00:03:03 ◼   ► Philosophical pain?

00:03:04 ◼   ► Yeah. When he explained it to the doctor, it made more sense, but I just liked the phrase,

00:03:07 ◼   ► because that was how he started it. But it's basically the idea of,

00:03:10 ◼   ► "If something hurts, stop doing it."

00:03:13 ◼   ► So you're off Twitter for 12 weeks?

00:03:15 ◼   ► Yeah, it's just a lot of things I can't do anymore.

00:03:17 ◼   ► But yeah, so there we go. That's where I am. 12 weeks of recovery, in theory.

00:03:22 ◼   ► Probably shouldn't be taking multiple transatlantic flights during that period of time,

00:03:27 ◼   ► but like, gotta be there for the people, man. Gotta be there for the people.

00:03:30 ◼   ► That's right. You're a podcaster of the people.

00:03:33 ◼   ► Spinal no spine.

00:03:34 ◼   ► I mean, you still have one. You're not...

00:03:37 ◼   ► It's not complete, though.

00:03:38 ◼   ► We're not pouring you into a bucket.

00:03:40 ◼   ► I don't know. Maybe I lost a tiny piece.

00:03:42 ◼   ► if you could turn it into a keychain or something.

00:03:44 ◼   ► - I don't want them to go in there and get it though.

00:03:46 ◼   ► Stay away. - I could do it.

00:03:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay.

00:03:49 ◼   ► - I got some tools. - I got the tools.

00:03:51 ◼   ► I got a very specific set of skills.

00:03:53 ◼   ► - Look, if you can upgrade the RAM in a Mac Mini,

00:03:54 ◼   ► you can basically do spinal surgery.

00:03:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, humans don't have RAM doors either.

00:03:59 ◼   ► - That's true. - If you think about it.

00:04:01 ◼   ► - That's all done.

00:04:03 ◼   ► We spoke about RSS last episode, I think,

00:04:06 ◼   ► and you were onto me about cleaning out

00:04:07 ◼   ► my RSS subscriptions, and I have done so.

00:04:10 ◼   ► I neglected to write down the number of subscriptions

00:04:14 ◼   ► I had before I started cleaning, so that's my bad.

00:04:17 ◼   ► But I got rid of a lot of duplicate stuff

00:04:19 ◼   ► like we talked about, and it is nicer.

00:04:21 ◼   ► It really is.

00:04:22 ◼   ► On the topic of RSS, though, I did

00:04:24 ◼   ► want to point out that Net News Wire, which

00:04:27 ◼   ► is a name that should be familiar to a lot

00:04:29 ◼   ► of our listeners-- it was an RSS reader for the Mac

00:04:31 ◼   ► for a long, long time.

00:04:32 ◼   ► And iOS.

00:04:33 ◼   ► And iOS, yes.

00:04:34 ◼   ► I forget about the iOS version because it wasn't very good.

00:04:37 ◼   ► But it is been sold a couple times anyways, it is now back in the hands of Brent Simmons

00:04:43 ◼   ► who created it.

00:04:45 ◼   ► And he is working on net newswire version five, there's a public beta, I have that link

00:04:50 ◼   ► in the show notes.

00:04:51 ◼   ► I've been running it on my Mac for a while now.

00:04:53 ◼   ► And it's definitely a beta like there's some customization, like particularly font size

00:04:57 ◼   ► customization that I really wish was there.

00:05:00 ◼   ► That's not there yet.

00:05:01 ◼   ► But it's really nice.

00:05:02 ◼   ► And it is fast and lightweight.

00:05:05 ◼   ► And it doesn't crash like reader does in the background.

00:05:07 ◼   ► So I'm enjoying it.

00:05:08 ◼   ► So if you are using Feedbin, you can check this out on the Mac.

00:05:13 ◼   ► That is the only syncing engine that it hooks up

00:05:15 ◼   ► to at the moment.

00:05:16 ◼   ► You can also just have local accounts

00:05:18 ◼   ► if you're not doing RSS anywhere else.

00:05:20 ◼   ► But if you're a Feedbin customer like I am,

00:05:21 ◼   ► you can plug into that.

00:05:23 ◼   ► That feels very artisanal to not have your RSS service syncing.

00:05:29 ◼   ► Yeah, it does, right?

00:05:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:05:31 ◼   ► I only believe in RSS on this one machine.

00:05:35 ◼   ► and I don't want my subscriptions

00:05:36 ◼   ► to go anywhere else.

00:05:37 ◼   ► That feels very like hipster RSS.

00:05:40 ◼   ► - It does.

00:05:41 ◼   ► And he has said that there are plans to add more services,

00:05:44 ◼   ► but it's a beta and Feedbin apparently

00:05:46 ◼   ► was the one that got done first.

00:05:47 ◼   ► - Is that probably the most popular Feedbin?

00:05:50 ◼   ► - Feedly, I think, is the most popular.

00:05:51 ◼   ► Looking at the stats for 512 pixels,

00:05:53 ◼   ► Feedly by far is the most popular.

00:05:56 ◼   ► But I think Feedbin is kind of popular

00:05:59 ◼   ► amongst our circles maybe, 'cause it's really simple.

00:06:02 ◼   ► It's like, you pay for it.

00:06:04 ◼   ► Feedly is free, but a lot of people don't like the way their apps work or the way they

00:06:08 ◼   ► do things.

00:06:09 ◼   ► I don't remember the crazy one that I'm on.

00:06:11 ◼   ► What am I on?

00:06:12 ◼   ► I Know Reader or something?

00:06:13 ◼   ► I Know Reader.

00:06:14 ◼   ► Yeah, that's like the Federico for a T-shirt version.

00:06:16 ◼   ► And it has a lot of what is effectively server-side rules you can do with it, right?

00:06:20 ◼   ► Where you can set up none of that.

00:06:23 ◼   ► Absolutely zero of it.

00:06:24 ◼   ► I just signed up for it because it was what Federico told me to sign up for.

00:06:28 ◼   ► The Content Reader for Power Users Who Want to Save Time.

00:06:32 ◼   ► That's their time.

00:06:33 ◼   ► that does describe you.

00:06:34 ◼   ► - I am a PAL user and I do want to save time, so.

00:06:37 ◼   ► - We have one, I don't know, I put it in followup

00:06:40 ◼   ► 'cause there really wasn't a place for it,

00:06:42 ◼   ► but I wanna talk about the MacBook Pros

00:06:44 ◼   ► that we spoke about weeks ago

00:06:45 ◼   ► that were being recalled for battery failures.

00:06:48 ◼   ► It is the 15-inch, late 2015,

00:06:50 ◼   ► so like the last one before

00:06:52 ◼   ► the USB-C Thunderbolt touch bar revolution.

00:06:55 ◼   ► A great laptop, Marco and I have both praised it,

00:06:59 ◼   ► we've both used it on and off over the years.

00:07:02 ◼   ► And they have this big deal where like the batteries are catching fire.

00:07:06 ◼   ► Apple has some like really strong language about that.

00:07:09 ◼   ► If you own one of these machines, please look at the link in the show notes and

00:07:15 ◼   ► check your serial number and make sure that you are not in, in this list where

00:07:20 ◼   ► you need to have your MacBook pro serviced.

00:07:22 ◼   ► I'd heard from a couple of people who are sort of still in like Mac service.

00:07:26 ◼   ► Roles and to get these repaired.

00:07:28 ◼   ► It takes a while because they're not shipping them via air.

00:07:31 ◼   ► they're being shipped by truck because they don't want to put these on airplanes because some of these batteries are

00:07:37 ◼   ► you know dangerous and turns out that that has caught up to to the MacBook Pro the FAA has

00:07:45 ◼   ► announced that these machines are not

00:07:48 ◼   ► Allowable on flights anymore

00:07:52 ◼   ► following in the footsteps of the note 7 and I have a lot of questions about this like how

00:07:57 ◼   ► How are airline safety regulators and staff going to know that you have a 2015 and not a 2013 or 14 to look the same or

00:08:06 ◼   ► If your serial number is in the batch or if it's not I don't know

00:08:10 ◼   ► I have a lot of questions about the nuts and bolts of this. That's the thing is like, okay

00:08:14 ◼   ► Well, what if you got it fixed? How do you prove that? Yeah, I don't know, right

00:08:21 ◼   ► Like if you had this laptop and you went through the recall program

00:08:26 ◼   ► How do you show the air flight?

00:08:28 ◼   ► Agent or whatever. What are they called flight attendant that you have a fixed laptop? It's a good question

00:08:36 ◼   ► Maybe yeah, you get a little like sticker with it. That's a little airplane on it with a thumbs up emoji

00:08:41 ◼   ► So I have a terrible thing. I have a terrible admission to make for you now worse than breaking your back. Yeah

00:08:49 ◼   ► When I was looking at this article, I was like, I think we have one of these computers

00:08:55 ◼   ► And I hadn't thought to get it checked. I don't know if Adina has a 15 or a 13. I don't

00:09:02 ◼   ► remember. So I just sent her a text message and I was like, "Oh, you should check this."

00:09:07 ◼   ► Right? And then she said, "Oh my god, is that why it gets so hot?" So that's what's going

00:09:11 ◼   ► on. That's what's going on in my life. We are not taking it with us on the plane. But

00:09:16 ◼   ► I don't know if it's the 13 or the 15 that she has, but irrespective, that computer gets

00:09:21 ◼   ► hot apparently. So that's good to know.

00:09:22 ◼   ► Only the 15th blow up.

00:09:24 ◼   ► So that's good.

00:09:25 ◼   ► But did the 13 need to be recalled as well?

00:09:28 ◼   ► I don't think so.

00:09:29 ◼   ► It's probably just a lot.

00:09:31 ◼   ► That's good news.

00:09:32 ◼   ► Bloomberg, man, they got the picture of the right laptop and everything.

00:09:35 ◼   ► Good job.

00:09:36 ◼   ► Congratulations, everybody.

00:09:38 ◼   ► It is August and we have a couple of just reminders.

00:09:43 ◼   ► One today is Wednesday, August 14.

00:09:45 ◼   ► There is one day left to pick up a relay FM fifth anniversary t shirt.

00:09:51 ◼   ► you're listening to this on August 16, it is too late and it is gone forever. And I'm sorry. So

00:09:57 ◼   ► there may be some pins still available that we have a small selection of pins still available.

00:10:01 ◼   ► Yes. There will be pins left. Those will just sell until they're sold out. But the shirts are

00:10:07 ◼   ► like a pre order so they get printed stuff. So if you haven't gotten one of these, now's the time.

00:10:10 ◼   ► I will say I have some of the enamel pins here and they are really cool. And I'm really excited

00:10:17 ◼   ► to see the shirts when they ship in a few weeks. Secondly, Relay FM membership

00:10:23 ◼   ► month is August, kind of bleeds into September too, you know mid-August to

00:10:27 ◼   ► mid-September. Yeah. And this is the time of year where we talk about the

00:10:31 ◼   ► membership program here at Relay FM. It goes on year-round, there are perks

00:10:35 ◼   ► year-round, so we send a behind-the-scenes newsletter each month,

00:10:37 ◼   ► and we have a Relay FM members only podcast that I host where I pull hosts

00:10:45 ◼   ► from different shows and we talk about something. Sometimes I interview a host

00:10:48 ◼   ► about something they've done and that's really cool. I really enjoy doing that

00:10:51 ◼   ► show and that is a member perk. You can learn more about membership at relay.fm/membership

00:10:58 ◼   ► or if you go to relay.fm/connected you can support this show with just a

00:11:02 ◼   ► couple of clicks. But the big perk happens in August and September where we

00:11:06 ◼   ► release members only bonus episodes of every show. Some shows team up and do

00:11:12 ◼   ► things. Some shows do it solo, so like for instance on Liftoff, Jason and I are going to be watching

00:11:18 ◼   ► the movie Armageddon, which is going to be a real adventure, and we're going to talk about that.

00:11:22 ◼   ► Myke, you, Gray, and Jason have completed another text adventure.

00:11:27 ◼   ► It's going to be out on Friday.

00:11:29 ◼   ► I've heard it. I think it's the best one yet. I love it so much.

00:11:33 ◼   ► Thank you. Thank you very much.

00:11:34 ◼   ► So go check that out. We would love your support. If you are a Relay F a member of,

00:11:38 ◼   ► whether it's this show or any other show, thank you for your support. It really means the world

00:11:42 ◼   ► to us. Yeah, thank you very much. All right, this is our annual relay FM q&a episode. So

00:11:49 ◼   ► every August, Myke, you and I take questions and we answer them. We've done it on video,

00:11:53 ◼   ► we've done it connected. So we're doing it connected this year. And we're gonna get into

00:11:57 ◼   ► that. But first, I want to tell you about our first sponsor, if that's okay, I would

00:12:00 ◼   ► love it. This episode is brought to you by pingdom, the company that makes website performance

00:12:06 ◼   ► and monitoring really easy. Everyone loves a fast website and pingdom is helping keep

00:12:11 ◼   ► your favorite sites online. Netflix, Amazon, Spotify, Twitter, BuzzFeed, Slack,

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00:12:35 ◼   ► care about your users having the smoothest site experience possible. And

00:12:40 ◼   ► And if disaster strikes, you'll be the first to know.

00:12:42 ◼   ► You can set up how Pingdom will notify you.

00:12:44 ◼   ► So like I said, we use this on Relay FM.

00:12:47 ◼   ► So I get a text message and a push notification

00:12:49 ◼   ► from Pingdom if the website is down.

00:12:51 ◼   ► You don't wanna hear your website being down

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00:12:54 ◼   ► You wanna know so you can get in there and get it working.

00:12:57 ◼   ► And Pingdom gives you that power.

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00:13:19 ◼   ► My thanks to Pingdom for their support of this show

00:13:21 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

00:13:23 ◼   ► - So we have over the last couple of weeks

00:13:25 ◼   ► been asking for our listeners to send us in questions

00:13:28 ◼   ► under the hashtag RelayQA,

00:13:30 ◼   ► and we have lots of wonderful questions

00:13:32 ◼   ► that we're gonna go through today.

00:13:35 ◼   ► The first comes from Kate.

00:13:36 ◼   ► Kate asks, "Since the last Q&A, is there anything in particular that has happened in relation

00:13:41 ◼   ► to the company or otherwise that you hadn't previously thought could be possible?"

00:13:46 ◼   ► What do you think?

00:13:47 ◼   ► I think the frequency of live shows and the success of them that we have, especially maybe

00:13:55 ◼   ► over the last six months or so, kind of starting with our tour, right, that was in October.

00:14:02 ◼   ► Considering we didn't do any live shows the year prior, we did our live show in June,

00:14:12 ◼   ► which was one of the bigger ones that we'd done ever.

00:14:16 ◼   ► Actually, it was the biggest we'd done ever at The Hammer at WWDC.

00:14:20 ◼   ► And then we enjoyed that so much that we went on tour in October and we did a bunch of shows

00:14:26 ◼   ► in a bunch of cities and have kind of since then been doing more and more of them and

00:14:32 ◼   ► I mean we're doing another two next week, right?

00:14:36 ◼   ► Back to back.

00:14:37 ◼   ► Back to back. That's going to be a new experience. We're going to be doing our big live show

00:14:41 ◼   ► Thursday, Penn Addict Live on Friday. But like just the way that we, well, the way that

00:14:47 ◼   ► you have kind of, you know, you're the kind of the driving force behind the live shows,

00:14:52 ◼   ► But the way that we've been able to have these things come together and be more frequent

00:14:57 ◼   ► and be successful has been a surprise to me.

00:15:02 ◼   ► It's not a lot, but we're not losing money on live shows anymore, which we had been previously.

00:15:06 ◼   ► Yes, the first several were at a loss.

00:15:11 ◼   ► I think that's a good answer.

00:15:12 ◼   ► I think looking back over the last 12 months, that's what comes to mind for me as well.

00:15:17 ◼   ► that we've done. We did WBC like you said we did Chicago, New York, Toronto on that

00:15:23 ◼   ► tour. Mac power users had has had two live shows. And we did WBC again, and now this.

00:15:30 ◼   ► And I think to say that like the company does like a yearly theme do thing was like you

00:15:34 ◼   ► guys talk a lot about in cortex, but I don't know if relay does that as a company, but

00:15:38 ◼   ► if there would have been one for the last 12 months, it would have been like, live shows

00:15:42 ◼   ► It was like getting us out into the world.

00:15:45 ◼   ► We wanna do more of them.

00:15:47 ◼   ► I'm already sort of having some ideas put together

00:15:49 ◼   ► for early 2020, and it'll be something that we continue

00:15:52 ◼   ► because it's so great to do what we do with an audience,

00:15:56 ◼   ► hang out with people, and I really love it.

00:15:59 ◼   ► And we're at a point now,

00:16:01 ◼   ► this big thing, I'm just gonna show Excluded

00:16:03 ◼   ► 'cause it's so bonkers.

00:16:06 ◼   ► Like, we've kinda gotten to a rhythm of how they work,

00:16:08 ◼   ► like what we need to do, the equipment's all dialed in.

00:16:10 ◼   ► So some of the stress of making it happen

00:16:13 ◼   ► has faded over time, and it means that I think

00:16:16 ◼   ► we're more willing to do them more often.

00:16:19 ◼   ► - And because people will ask me,

00:16:21 ◼   ► I would love to do a show in London at some point,

00:16:23 ◼   ► and we will, I just don't know when.

00:16:26 ◼   ► But it's something that I really want to do,

00:16:29 ◼   ► but it's just something that is more difficult,

00:16:33 ◼   ► because it's all dependent on what show is it gonna be.

00:16:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I'll say here,

00:16:38 ◼   ► if we wanna do a connection in London,

00:16:39 ◼   ► Fedrick is pretty close. You know, I can come over. Yeah. Something.

00:16:43 ◼   ► What is something? Yeah. I would like to do that very much,

00:16:46 ◼   ► but it's just a case of the logistics of that. Yes. Are significant.

00:16:51 ◼   ► Yes. That's a big deal.

00:16:52 ◼   ► So, so like it's the thing that we would really love to do,

00:16:56 ◼   ► but it's just about when, but it is something that we will do maybe over the next

00:17:00 ◼   ► 12 months. Right. Like maybe sometime in 2020, hopefully if we can find a reason,

00:17:04 ◼   ► I don't know, but like, it would be a wonderful thing to do. We,

00:17:08 ◼   ► we do really want to do it so it's just a case of working it out.

00:17:11 ◼   ► uh Scott asked where did the idea for Relay come from what got the ball rolling?

00:17:15 ◼   ► I guess it depends what Scott is like actually asking but like my the way I am interpreting this

00:17:21 ◼   ► is like why did you start the company um and I guess it was just a case of wow we'd both been

00:17:27 ◼   ► doing this stuff for a long time like I started in 2010 you started not too long after that and

00:17:34 ◼   ► we'd moved through various things, right? Like setting up a very kind of small duct tape

00:17:40 ◼   ► together network, which we moved over to 5x5 and then it kind of just got to the point where

00:17:47 ◼   ► I felt like I had achieved everything I wanted to achieve but didn't have the outcome that I

00:17:52 ◼   ► was looking for, which was for podcasting to be my full-time career, right? Like I feel like I'd

00:17:57 ◼   ► achieved everything I wanted but didn't have the outcome. So then I was like, okay, well then I

00:18:03 ◼   ► I need to start again, I guess is probably the best way to think of it.

00:18:07 ◼   ► And for me, starting again was doing it on my own and like in my own way and all

00:18:12 ◼   ► that kind of stuff. And I shared that with you.

00:18:15 ◼   ► And when I shared that with you, you were kind of like, oh, me too.

00:18:17 ◼   ► So, so we just did it.

00:18:19 ◼   ► Here we are.

00:18:20 ◼   ► Yeah. And then it was just a case of like working out, like, this is everything that

00:18:26 ◼   ► we know, this is everything that we've learned and these are the ways that we

00:18:28 ◼   ► would want to do it. And when we did it that way and when we own the business,

00:18:33 ◼   ► and could profit the way that a business does,

00:18:36 ◼   ► it made more sense for us.

00:18:38 ◼   ► And the next question actually leads into the rest

00:18:41 ◼   ► of what I'm about to say.

00:18:42 ◼   ► So I will hold on that on a minute.

00:18:44 ◼   ► But that was why it was just a case of like,

00:18:47 ◼   ► create being like creatively itchy feet, right?

00:18:51 ◼   ► Which is like, do you familiar with that phrase?

00:18:53 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:18:54 ◼   ► - So like, we know we just wanted to do something new

00:18:56 ◼   ► and wanted to do something different.

00:18:57 ◼   ► And I also felt like I had other challenges

00:19:01 ◼   ► that I needed to face because everything that I'd done

00:19:04 ◼   ► to that point hadn't gotten me to my ultimate goal.

00:19:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's well said.

00:19:09 ◼   ► For me, when we started this, you were further down the road

00:19:13 ◼   ► into wanting to do this for a living.

00:19:16 ◼   ► And again, this goes into the second question here

00:19:19 ◼   ► in a second, but very quickly it became clear to me

00:19:24 ◼   ► that if this company were successful,

00:19:26 ◼   ► we could both do it full time.

00:19:29 ◼   ► And for me, at least, that wasn't my goal

00:19:32 ◼   ► in starting the company.

00:19:33 ◼   ► Like I admit that my vision of it at the beginning was,

00:19:37 ◼   ► hey, you know what, we can make some pretty decent

00:19:39 ◼   ► side money and we'll have a place to do our own thing.

00:19:42 ◼   ► And I definitely didn't foresee

00:19:44 ◼   ► where it is now five years later.

00:19:46 ◼   ► - I mean, even, but then though,

00:19:48 ◼   ► when we started, it was a dream.

00:19:50 ◼   ► It wasn't like an inevitability.

00:19:52 ◼   ► - Definitely.

00:19:53 ◼   ► - Right, so it did feel like, okay,

00:19:55 ◼   ► we could maybe build something different

00:19:59 ◼   ► and earn some good side money.

00:20:00 ◼   ► But, and then hopefully one day turn it into

00:20:04 ◼   ► what we do for a living.

00:20:05 ◼   ► But that hopefully came quicker than we imagined, I think.

00:20:09 ◼   ► - Yep, so this is Aaron's question,

00:20:11 ◼   ► perfectly suited for where we're going.

00:20:14 ◼   ► When y'all decided to go full time,

00:20:16 ◼   ► being full time in the company, were you profitable?

00:20:18 ◼   ► How many shows did you have at that point?

00:20:21 ◼   ► And before going full time, how many hours were you putting

00:20:24 ◼   ► in a week to podcasting and Relay FM?

00:20:26 ◼   ► So your story is pretty well known.

00:20:29 ◼   ► You went full time in relay much sooner

00:20:32 ◼   ► than I anticipated, but it worked out.

00:20:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, what was it like a month

00:20:39 ◼   ► after we started that I quit?

00:20:42 ◼   ► Like, I don't think it was long.

00:20:43 ◼   ► - It was not long.

00:20:44 ◼   ► - It feels like kind of about that time.

00:20:48 ◼   ► I'll find the episode, like the best telling

00:20:51 ◼   ► of these stories, like this particular story is on analog.

00:20:56 ◼   ► Oh, I quit in October. Yeah, I quit in October. So we'd been around for a couple of months.

00:21:02 ◼   ► So we launched in the middle of August and then in the middle of October, I quit my day job.

00:21:08 ◼   ► At that point, the company was profitable. That was why I did it. Like, it was...

00:21:15 ◼   ► We were able to be profitable in that sense quickly because we didn't have a lot of overhead.

00:21:21 ◼   ► Right? Like a company like ours that only exists on the internet doesn't have a lot of

00:21:26 ◼   ► of overhead. So provided that we could get advertising, which we did from the start because

00:21:31 ◼   ► we both built contacts by that point, we were able to be profitable. Like the first thing

00:21:37 ◼   ► that had to happen was we repaid the money that both me and you invested. And we kind

00:21:43 ◼   ► of did that up until I guess October or whatever. And then once we were set, it was like, all

00:21:48 ◼   ► right. It was just a case of I had a bunch of stuff happened to me, but really it was

00:21:52 ◼   ► like I could see what our bookings were and I knew that I could at least last three months.

00:21:58 ◼   ► And so then it was at that point it was like well let's just try it like I might as well

00:22:02 ◼   ► just try it now because we can get there. So that was it. We were still at our original

00:22:08 ◼   ► no we'd grown in shows then I think we had like six or seven shows at that point.

00:22:13 ◼   ► Upgrade and Clockwise had definitely come over at that point.

00:22:15 ◼   ► Yeah Rocket too I think.

00:22:17 ◼   ► It's right in there somewhere.

00:22:18 ◼   ► around that sort of time. So we had started to grow a little bit. Again, that was much

00:22:24 ◼   ► faster than expected. Jason joining was a big shock to all of us in a good way, but

00:22:32 ◼   ► that was a big surprise. We weren't expecting to have started any new shows by that point.

00:22:40 ◼   ► So Rocket was in January, so it was a little bit later, but I think that was the next show

00:22:45 ◼   ► after Jason's two shows. So we'd started to grow and things were looking up, right?

00:22:53 ◼   ► And so then it was, I think it was like, "Okay, this is becoming much more of a thing than

00:22:58 ◼   ► we'd anticipated, a little bit faster than we anticipated." But your story is very different

00:23:02 ◼   ► though.

00:23:03 ◼   ► It is. So I went full-time almost a year into the company. We were in very different stages

00:23:10 ◼   ► of the life of the time. I had three kids. In fact, my third was born the month after

00:23:15 ◼   ► we launched Relay. It's like, I'd taken a bunch of my own money, poured it in this company,

00:23:19 ◼   ► like, "Oh, we're going to have a baby in a month." It was chaotic in hindsight.

00:23:25 ◼   ► So I had a job that I really liked at a company I liked doing work that I enjoyed. And because

00:23:32 ◼   ► we had three kids, my wife worked only part-time, my bar to make the jump was higher than yours

00:23:39 ◼   ► was at that point.

00:23:41 ◼   ► And I could have done it earlier.

00:23:44 ◼   ► For me, there was probably three to four or five months or something where the money made

00:23:50 ◼   ► sense to do it, but I was hesitant to do it.

00:23:53 ◼   ► And I've told this story before, but basically Jason Snell and David Sparks ganged up on

00:23:58 ◼   ► me at WWDC and said, "Look, you need to quit your job.

00:24:02 ◼   ► You need to do relay."

00:24:04 ◼   ► And they were right.

00:24:06 ◼   ► I went I came home and quit my job and I was hesitant to though, right if you remember

00:24:12 ◼   ► Right, like when we were talking about it

00:24:14 ◼   ► Like I had a hesitancy of you Quentin because I was scared about

00:24:18 ◼   ► Because I do the lion's share or at least at that time did the lion's share of the advertising work

00:24:24 ◼   ► Which was where all of our money was coming from at that point. Yeah, I was really worried about

00:24:29 ◼   ► Being responsible for putting food on your family's table

00:24:33 ◼   ► Like that was like a big big like thing that I was really scared about

00:24:37 ◼   ► But again, it was just like a case of like I was able to get over that quicker

00:24:42 ◼   ► Then you were able to make your decision

00:24:45 ◼   ► but like I remember when we were originally talking about it like that was like a real just like a real like

00:24:49 ◼   ► Nervousness that I had because at that point the only person being supported full-time by relay was me

00:24:57 ◼   ► everybody else wasn't and there is like I think now we're at the case where there are more people who have large parts of their income

00:25:05 ◼   ► from our company and that kind of spreading of it feels more natural and it doesn't really concern me anymore because we

00:25:13 ◼   ► Feel not because I'm a monster because I feel like we're pretty we're pretty solid

00:25:17 ◼   ► There is like a case of like we would know very far in advance now if someone was gonna have a problem. Yeah

00:25:25 ◼   ► Right. Yep. So the way that way things work just to round up Aaron's question before going full-time

00:25:31 ◼   ► How many hours were you putting in a week? I don't know. It was a lot

00:25:34 ◼   ► I mean I was working 40 hours a week at a job and then

00:25:37 ◼   ► Probably working another 15 hours a week easily on

00:25:41 ◼   ► Relay stuff, you know in the evenings and weekends and I was actually thinking about this

00:25:46 ◼   ► I'm probably putting in the same amount of hours, right?

00:25:49 ◼   ► Like I genuinely think that like the amount of hours I'm putting in now was the same

00:25:53 ◼   ► I was putting in then but I was also working a job at the same time because now I have a much better work-life balance

00:25:58 ◼   ► But then it was like I mean, I'm doing about the same amount of shows

00:26:02 ◼   ► Right and I do less editing now than I used to and stuff like that

00:26:07 ◼   ► while still doing the business management and we now have

00:26:10 ◼   ► People we've hired to take jobs away from as well

00:26:13 ◼   ► Like I reckon I'm probably doing about that because I was effectively working two full-time jobs, right?

00:26:19 ◼   ► I would come home at 6 and I'd be done at 1

00:26:22 ◼   ► Like that was kind of my my life at the time. So I probably don't don't do any

00:26:29 ◼   ► more or less hours than I used to, which is horrifying to think about, but I'm

00:26:36 ◼   ► happy that I made that sacrifice in my life because now I have the life I want.

00:26:39 ◼   ► It's a difficult thing to do, it's a difficult thing for most people, and I

00:26:43 ◼   ► was just at the stage in my life where I could do it, and I consider myself very

00:26:46 ◼   ► fortunate that I was in that part. Mm-hmm. I'm reading the show notes for

00:26:51 ◼   ► upgrade episode one which is September 2014. I've forgotten this it was Jason's

00:26:58 ◼   ► review of the iPhone 6 and 6 plus that feels so long ago. I was when that when

00:27:04 ◼   ► episode one launched I was in a hotel room in Italy because it was we weren't

00:27:10 ◼   ► we weren't planning on doing the first episode then it was but Jason had an

00:27:15 ◼   ► iPhone so wouldn't it be great to have the first episode go up and it went up

00:27:20 ◼   ► on the embargo time of the iPhone 6. So it's like, well, this is the perfect way to launch

00:27:26 ◼   ► the show. But like I had the, there were funny things like the intro music. I didn't hear

00:27:31 ◼   ► it until the episode went up. I'd never heard the song. Just like little stuff like that.

00:27:37 ◼   ► All right, back to Kate. There's a lot of Kate questions.

00:27:40 ◼   ► Kate had lots of great questions. There's going to be a lot of Kate questions.

00:27:43 ◼   ► #KateQA. Is this where you expected to be on your fifth anniversary? How is it different

00:27:49 ◼   ► to your initial ideas of the company.

00:27:51 ◼   ► I think I said a second ago,

00:27:54 ◼   ► I could never have predicted the level

00:27:57 ◼   ► which would be operating now, both in the number of shows,

00:28:00 ◼   ► but in the amazing people we work with.

00:28:02 ◼   ► And that's really what I come back to with this.

00:28:04 ◼   ► If you had told me five years ago,

00:28:06 ◼   ► I would get to work with the people we get to work with,

00:28:09 ◼   ► many of whom I knew and looked up to,

00:28:11 ◼   ► and many who I didn't know, but now look up to now

00:28:14 ◼   ► as I've gotten to know them,

00:28:16 ◼   ► that's what humbles me the most,

00:28:17 ◼   ► is that there are so many amazing people that post shows on our network.

00:28:22 ◼   ► Without a doubt. Just personal heroes up and down, right? It's kind of a wild thing to be

00:28:29 ◼   ► in that position. And also because I am a guy, the financials are incredible too. I never thought

00:28:39 ◼   ► that we would be at the place that we are, right? The fact that we are able to both be supported

00:28:44 ◼   ► and we're able to help out so many other people with their like creative autonomy basically

00:28:50 ◼   ► is kind of wild like I don't there is there are so many things right that you could

00:28:56 ◼   ► basically if if if us of five years ago had access to our own website as it is now and our

00:29:05 ◼   ► spreadsheets we wouldn't believe any of it it would all seem like oh what you did was

00:29:11 ◼   ► create your dream version of what was going to happen and give it to me.

00:29:15 ◼   ► Because that is kind of where we are like this. We have,

00:29:18 ◼   ► I think exceeded at this point,

00:29:20 ◼   ► all of our wildest expectations for what this company could be. So,

00:29:24 ◼   ► you know,

00:29:26 ◼   ► I can't help but look back now and just be like,

00:29:29 ◼   ► and feel very grateful for it all.

00:29:32 ◼   ► Jackson asks, what has been something that you didn't expect to be difficult,

00:29:37 ◼   ► but was surprisingly so when running a podcast network?

00:29:40 ◼   ► The mental load of working with such a large group of people is a big one for me.

00:29:45 ◼   ► I carry around in my brain the desires, needs and requirements of all of our hosts constantly.

00:29:52 ◼   ► And that's just part of who I am as a person. That sort of stuff really weighs on my mind.

00:29:59 ◼   ► And I've had to do a lot over time to help me cope with that. But making sure that everybody is happy

00:30:09 ◼   ► and get what they need, that is a thing that like it really, it really weighs on me.

00:30:16 ◼   ► And I think it helps, right? Like I think it's a plus. I think we both have this, right? Like

00:30:21 ◼   ► I think our hosts like to work with us because they enjoy working with us and part of that is

00:30:26 ◼   ► because we care about them. So it's a big thing that I carry around and I don't think I would

00:30:32 ◼   ► have expected, especially because again, like I didn't think that we would have as many shows

00:30:36 ◼   ► and hosts as we have. So that's been a big thing for me.

00:30:39 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a good answer. I think something that comes to mind for me is the, as we've

00:30:44 ◼   ► grown, I find it difficult sometimes to hand things off to other people. Like you said,

00:30:49 ◼   ► we have a couple people helping us now internally with internal tasks, and you did that much

00:30:57 ◼   ► quicker than I did.

00:30:58 ◼   ► Because I was going to lose my mind otherwise. That was the problem.

00:31:01 ◼   ► And so that's been really good. That's been a very successful part of our business over the last couple years, having people come in and help.

00:31:10 ◼   ► The reason I was laughing just now is I am reminded of a call that me and you had a couple of months ago where I basically demanded that you do it.

00:31:17 ◼   ► Like that there was just tasks that you were doing that you didn't need to do anymore that we could pay somebody to do.

00:31:22 ◼   ► And you were very hesitant of it.

00:31:24 ◼   ► And I understand because it's within your nature to want to manage that stuff.

00:31:28 ◼   ► Yes, and you were right, and it's been amazing to have helped in certain things.

00:31:33 ◼   ► Yes.

00:31:33 ◼   ► And so that's something that I continue to look at and continue to make decisions about

00:31:38 ◼   ► what I need to do, what I can give to other people. And there will always be parts of

00:31:44 ◼   ► the work that are just my favorites, and there's other things that sort of fall to me naturally

00:31:49 ◼   ► with my skill set, but there are lots of other things that lots of people can help with. So

00:31:54 ◼   ► that has been something I've had to learn and it's been good, it's been really good,

00:31:58 ◼   ► but it was a lesson to learn. Here's a great question from Kate, this is for you Stephen,

00:32:04 ◼   ► you've had lots of show changes in the past year, you joined MacPower users, you had subnet,

00:32:09 ◼   ► query and download or retire, what are or were the different challenges of the shows, what have

00:32:14 ◼   ► you learned from them and what is going on with you? That's quite the body count when you list

00:32:18 ◼   ► I'm all out. So I joined Mac Power Users in January, but that move was in the works for some

00:32:25 ◼   ► time. When David asked me to join, it was a couple months before or whenever it was. And I knew then,

00:32:33 ◼   ► he and I talked about it, you and I talked about it, the three of us talked about it,

00:32:36 ◼   ► I talked to Katie about it, a lot of conversations to make sure this was the right decision.

00:32:40 ◼   ► I knew when I accepted the role of co-host on MPU, that it was going to require a lot of time

00:32:48 ◼   ► and energy from me. And I didn't have that in my schedule when I said yes. And so I looked at what

00:32:55 ◼   ► I was doing. And query in particular, I knew kind of right off the bat that it was probably time to

00:33:02 ◼   ► wind it down. The query and MPU are related in a way and query if you're not familiar with it,

00:33:07 ◼   ► you probably aren't it wasn't hugely successful. But it was a show where we sort of answered tech

00:33:11 ◼   ► questions from the audience. And it's straight into MPU territory quite often, as you would

00:33:15 ◼   ► imagine. And I knew that I didn't want to do two shows that were that alike. And looking at

00:33:22 ◼   ► The Raw Numbers, Quarry just wasn't that big of a show, and so it was kind of an easy decision to

00:33:27 ◼   ► let that go. It was hard because I hosted that show originally with Serendi Caldwell,

00:33:32 ◼   ► who is amazing. It was her idea, and I just kind of came on to help with it. And then she had a

00:33:39 ◼   ► career change, and I was joined by Micah, and I couldn't ask for two better co-hosts for that

00:33:43 ◼   ► show. I love both Serenity and Micah deeply. And that made it hard. And it made it hard to,

00:33:49 ◼   ► like, I called Serenity and was like, "I think I have to, like, the thing we created, I have to

00:33:52 ◼   ► move on from." And she was very supportive in that, as was Micah. He really understood it. So

00:33:57 ◼   ► that was important to me that we ended it correctly. Subnet was a little bit different.

00:34:02 ◼   ► Subnet was a daily show, five days a week we had for a long time. Most of that year, doing, like,

00:34:10 ◼   ► tech headlines, like quick tech headlines. A lot of people have

00:34:12 ◼   ► sent on their smart speakers. Daily is just hard. And I had

00:34:16 ◼   ► helped with it. Part of the way through where Jason took some

00:34:18 ◼   ► Micah took some, but it just got to a point where it was not a

00:34:23 ◼   ► lot of work, but it was work every day. And it was it kind of

00:34:27 ◼   ► felt like shackles on my to do list every day to do that show

00:34:31 ◼   ► at the end of the day. And, and I really wanted the the overhead

00:34:36 ◼   ► back from from those projects. And so by the time I joined MPU, subnet and query had been

00:34:43 ◼   ► marked as retired downloads a little bit different download is a show I did with Jason Stell. Again,

00:34:48 ◼   ► it was tech headlines, but in like a panel discussion format. I still believe in that

00:34:52 ◼   ► idea of a show. But it's kind of got to a point where Jason and I couldn't put into it what we

00:34:58 ◼   ► needed to and we thought about doing a host change. That's really tricky. We kind of decided

00:35:03 ◼   ► that at least for now that idea is sort of had its run. I still believe in that show format. I

00:35:10 ◼   ► still want a show like that on Relay FM, but it was kind of clear that download wasn't quite

00:35:15 ◼   ► what we wanted it to be. And I'm very proud of that show as well. Jason and I, I think we did

00:35:21 ◼   ► a really good job, just to speak candidly, with the the panel members that we had. That we had

00:35:29 ◼   ► lots of diverse voices on that show.

00:35:31 ◼   ► And that was really important to us.

00:35:33 ◼   ► And it was important to talk with people

00:35:35 ◼   ► who were experts in their field

00:35:36 ◼   ► and talk to people who really know their stuff.

00:35:39 ◼   ► And it was a lot of fun to get to know a lot of people

00:35:41 ◼   ► through downloads, a lot of friends of mine now

00:35:43 ◼   ► that I've met in this industry,

00:35:44 ◼   ► because they were download guests

00:35:45 ◼   ► and that was our first interaction.

00:35:47 ◼   ► So something like that, I think,

00:35:49 ◼   ► could come back at some point.

00:35:50 ◼   ► But those were kind of the challenge of the shows

00:35:53 ◼   ► and why we wound them down.

00:35:55 ◼   ► MPU has been extremely rewarding.

00:35:58 ◼   ► The audience of MPU is fantastic.

00:36:01 ◼   ► They are extremely engaged, extremely involved in the show,

00:36:06 ◼   ► and they've really welcomed me with open arms.

00:36:10 ◼   ► You know, it's a big change to change a host

00:36:12 ◼   ► after nine years, and I went into it knowing that,

00:36:16 ◼   ► and knowing that I had to prove that I was,

00:36:19 ◼   ► you know, that David had made the right choice,

00:36:21 ◼   ► and I think now, nine months into it or whatever,

00:36:25 ◼   ► that it's gone really well, and the show is healthy,

00:36:27 ◼   ► and the audience is just as engaged as they were before.

00:36:30 ◼   ► So I think we've transitioned smoothly.

00:36:33 ◼   ► And for anyone who listens to MPU,

00:36:35 ◼   ► I appreciate you taking a chance on me

00:36:40 ◼   ► knowing that it does change the show fundamentally.

00:36:43 ◼   ► But I think it's doing really well.

00:36:46 ◼   ► - A change show is not a bad show.

00:36:48 ◼   ► It's just changed.

00:36:49 ◼   ► - Just changed.

00:36:50 ◼   ► - I wanna say a little bit about Subnet and Download.

00:36:53 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:36:54 ◼   ► - They were both experiments.

00:36:57 ◼   ► Subnet was an experiment in working on a completely different format to be

00:37:02 ◼   ► delivered via a different medium, which is to be like Echos and Google Homes and

00:37:07 ◼   ► stuff like that. And that was a project that we started when we were approached

00:37:12 ◼   ► by Anchor to kind of see if we wanted to make content like that. And we tried it

00:37:18 ◼   ► and ultimately realized that that experiment was never going to lead

00:37:21 ◼   ► anywhere that we were really that happy with under that kind of guise, right?

00:37:25 ◼   ► Like, it was a time sink for you and I could never work out how we would make money on

00:37:31 ◼   ► it.

00:37:32 ◼   ► And at that point it seemed like, okay, this isn't right for now.

00:37:37 ◼   ► Later on this might be a thing that we can work out, but it wasn't a good use of your

00:37:41 ◼   ► time and so maybe there's something else that we could do in the future with it.

00:37:45 ◼   ► And download was an experiment in like, and we've got questions about this later so again

00:37:50 ◼   ► I won't say too much about it right now, but like can we push out into wider technology?

00:37:55 ◼   ► And the answer was yes, but we couldn't break it to the level that you and Jason wanted,

00:38:01 ◼   ► right?

00:38:02 ◼   ► The show was very successful, but it wasn't as successful as our Apple-focused shows.

00:38:09 ◼   ► So it got to the point where you both wanted to focus on things that were better for you.

00:38:16 ◼   ► So they were both experiments and they were successful to a point, but neither of them

00:38:21 ◼   ► got to where we wanted to be.

00:38:23 ◼   ► And I think as a company, we're trying to be a little bit more focused on that, right?

00:38:28 ◼   ► Like we can take some risks, but if they're not going to work, then we've got to be willing

00:38:32 ◼   ► to let them go.

00:38:35 ◼   ► Is that fair to say?

00:38:36 ◼   ► I know that your shows, I don't want to speak for you, but yeah, no, no, it is.

00:38:40 ◼   ► And I think that download may have been more successful in our goal of breaking past Apple

00:38:45 ◼   ► if Jason had been paired with somebody who wasn't so Apple centric as I am.

00:38:49 ◼   ► And like that was just a staffing issue.

00:38:51 ◼   ► that that may have hurt it. But it was also interesting to doing some that download at

00:38:56 ◼   ► the same time was actually great because to prep for download, like I was already doing the work

00:39:01 ◼   ► every day with subnet looking for the three tech hons of the day. So with download picking the four

00:39:04 ◼   ► for the week is like here already 12 like let's just pick out of here what seems to be the most

00:39:09 ◼   ► important. So they were very influential on each other. And when subnet ended download kept going

00:39:15 ◼   ► for another six months. I felt that difference was like, oh, like, I didn't realize how much heavy

00:39:19 ◼   ► lifting subnet was doing for download, just like an interesting thing behind the scenes. But yeah,

00:39:25 ◼   ► we you know, experimented with it, it didn't pan out. That doesn't mean it was a bad idea. It just

00:39:29 ◼   ► means that that specific execution didn't do quite what we wanted it to do. Alright, we have

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00:41:20 ◼   ► All right, so the next question comes from Kate.

00:41:23 ◼   ► Kate wants to know, what is your favorite new thing,

00:41:25 ◼   ► work-related or otherwise, that you

00:41:27 ◼   ► have started doing this year?

00:41:29 ◼   ► Oh, man.

00:41:30 ◼   ► I kind of want to answer otherwise.

00:41:32 ◼   ► We're talking a lot about work.

00:41:33 ◼   ► You should answer.

00:41:34 ◼   ► Otherwise was in that, so you should answer otherwise.

00:41:36 ◼   ► So I'm going to answer otherwise.

00:41:38 ◼   ► I have gotten into fishing again this year.

00:41:41 ◼   ► So I did that as a kid, and I've been doing more of it.

00:41:44 ◼   ► My daughter enjoys it.

00:41:45 ◼   ► My dad enjoys it.

00:41:47 ◼   ► We've been several times.

00:41:49 ◼   ► And it's really nice to not be on the internet

00:41:52 ◼   ► and go do something outside.

00:41:54 ◼   ► And so that is an otherwise thing for me.

00:41:57 ◼   ► As far as work, look, I'm having a ball on Mac Power Users.

00:42:02 ◼   ► It's working with David Sparks is a dream come true.

00:42:05 ◼   ► Working with that audience is amazing.

00:42:07 ◼   ► I love that I can get super nerdy about the Finder

00:42:08 ◼   ► and Federico isn't rolling his eyes like he does here.

00:42:12 ◼   ► So MPU has just been like seriously bucket list type stuff

00:42:15 ◼   ► as far as work.

00:42:16 ◼   ► - I can't really think of anything I'm doing personally.

00:42:20 ◼   ► I mean I have other work related projects,

00:42:22 ◼   ► like getting into product manufacturing

00:42:25 ◼   ► has been pretty interesting for me

00:42:26 ◼   ► and it's something I wanna keep working on.

00:42:28 ◼   ► But my kind of work thing is this year

00:42:33 ◼   ► started to hand over editing projects to the very wonderful and talented Jim

00:42:38 ◼   ► Metzendorf who helps us out with a selection of shows and having somebody

00:42:43 ◼   ► who I trust edit some shows for me instead of me doing them has been like a

00:42:48 ◼   ► really nice thing. It's been great for the regular shows that I have that I've

00:42:52 ◼   ► handed to Jim but it's also really great when like I have a particularly

00:42:56 ◼   ► difficult edit that I haven't got time to do for whatever reason I can just ask

00:43:01 ◼   ► gym to do it for me and he'll do it and that's been like given me a lot of

00:43:07 ◼   ► stress relief and freedom and time back so that's been one of my favorite work

00:43:12 ◼   ► things that I've done for myself this year rather than like making things

00:43:16 ◼   ► better for everybody else it's like it was just like a thing for me to help my

00:43:18 ◼   ► working life yeah right but like there are things that we always try and do in

00:43:22 ◼   ► the company to make things better but like this is for me for my own work

00:43:25 ◼   ► right which is making the shows so that's been like a really wonderful

00:43:29 ◼   ► thing for me. It's been good and I can see the change in your work with Jim

00:43:36 ◼   ► taking over more of your editing. So yeah because you get you get the invoice so

00:43:41 ◼   ► you just see me like that dude I do literally see the change. No it's great and

00:43:49 ◼   ► I've used him for a few things and he's gonna do the connected game show which

00:43:53 ◼   ► I've apologized to him in advance of how crazy that's gonna be. So mm-hmm trust Jim

00:43:58 ◼   ► with it. It's the best. Kyle wants to know what is your favorite non relay podcast? It's

00:44:05 ◼   ► either wonderful by Griffin and Rachel McElroy or Dubai Friday. I will I will second Dubai Friday.

00:44:13 ◼   ► I'm also really enjoying app stories that John and Federico do that it's kind of partially behind the

00:44:20 ◼   ► scenes at Mac stories, partially interviews topic stuff, but they do it sort of in a Mac stories way

00:44:26 ◼   ► and I don't miss an episode.

00:44:29 ◼   ► I was trying to scroll through my overcast

00:44:32 ◼   ► to find something that is not tech-ish.

00:44:35 ◼   ► One that's half tech, half creative stuff

00:44:38 ◼   ► is the Stallman podcast by our friend Tyler Stallman.

00:44:40 ◼   ► He does interviews with creators and talks about tech,

00:44:43 ◼   ► and even if I'm not super into the world

00:44:47 ◼   ► that he's talking about, he does such a good job

00:44:50 ◼   ► explaining things and getting good stuff out of people

00:44:53 ◼   ► interviews that you know you have not I'm not really trying to choose between

00:44:56 ◼   ► Final Cut and Premiere but I'll listen to an hour of him talking to people

00:44:59 ◼   ► about it because it's he makes it so interesting. Yeah he's also very talented.

00:45:03 ◼   ► I have been trying to listen to less technology shows obviously I love them

00:45:09 ◼   ► but because I make them I'm trying to have less like input of it so I feel

00:45:17 ◼   ► like my thoughts can be more organically generated from me than listening to other people and

00:45:24 ◼   ► then feel like I'm repeating what they're saying or like hesitating from saying something

00:45:30 ◼   ► or talking about something because I'm concerned that all this is just like what I heard on

00:45:34 ◼   ► such and such show. I don't want to be kind of like restricted like that. So I do listen

00:45:41 ◼   ► to a couple of the big tech shows. I mean, if you're thinking about it, I'm probably

00:45:45 ◼   ► into it, but the shows that I'm adding into my life, I'm trying to make them more entertainment

00:45:51 ◼   ► than technology.

00:45:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's, I think that can be wise.

00:45:55 ◼   ► And I go through periods where I don't listen to many tech podcasts at all, or just don't

00:45:59 ◼   ► listen to many podcasts.

00:46:00 ◼   ► You know, I sort of have seasons where I back off, but it's, there's so much good stuff

00:46:06 ◼   ► out there, right?

00:46:07 ◼   ► Like we could name a ton of podcasts and just this would go on forever.

00:46:10 ◼   ► So we should move on.

00:46:12 ◼   ► So Kevin asks, how do you battle possible fatigue covering Apple News on multiple shows?

00:46:17 ◼   ► I imagine it must be tough to find your own take multiple times a week.

00:46:21 ◼   ► I think you should answer this because you have two new shows you have upgraded connected

00:46:25 ◼   ► while very different.

00:46:26 ◼   ► There's a lot of topic overlap.

00:46:27 ◼   ► So this this I toss this to you.

00:46:31 ◼   ► I work very, very, very hard on this.

00:46:34 ◼   ► I try as good, like I try as hard as possible to not have overlap.

00:46:41 ◼   ► So there will be a lot of times where like you might say,

00:46:45 ◼   ► should we talk about this on connected? And I'm like,

00:46:48 ◼   ► I don't want to talk about it cause I've just spoke about it like for 45 minutes

00:46:50 ◼   ► on upgrade and like, and I just don't want to repeat myself.

00:46:53 ◼   ► So like we try and work on other topics or if we are going to cover something,

00:46:58 ◼   ► I typically, you probably don't even notice this,

00:47:01 ◼   ► but like if there's a topic that was on upgrade and connected,

00:47:04 ◼   ► I either A) don't say much about it on connected because I've already said

00:47:09 ◼   ► everything or B) there are times where I have kept specific things for the other

00:47:15 ◼   ► show so like I have thoughts for one show and thoughts for another show so

00:47:19 ◼   ► I'm not repeating myself constantly right like that is like a big thing that

00:47:23 ◼   ► I try and do because I don't want to do that I don't want to do it for me let

00:47:27 ◼   ► alone for the listener like I don't want to just keep saying the same things over

00:47:30 ◼   ► over and over again. So I try to keep a split between the two of them because I think it's

00:47:35 ◼   ► very possible to do it. There is enough topics most weeks that it can be done that way. And

00:47:40 ◼   ► I try not to repeat myself. So that's how. And to be honest, I think that I do a pretty

00:47:46 ◼   ► good job about it because I never get complaints about it. I feel like the only times people

00:47:50 ◼   ► ever do complain about it to me, at least what I've seen, I don't know if those people

00:47:54 ◼   ► listen to the shows like they just see that I do two shows that are focused on Apple News.

00:47:58 ◼   ► But yeah, that's kind of my thing and like there are things over time that have naturally become

00:48:05 ◼   ► the beat of one show or the other. Right. Right. So like, for example, I started talking about

00:48:11 ◼   ► folding phones on upgrade. And I don't really think Jason cared too much about me to give him

00:48:16 ◼   ► my Samsung Galaxy Fold update every week. So it came here. So it came here because you guys were

00:48:21 ◼   ► more interested in me talking about it. Sure, if that's what you think is happening, that's fine.

00:48:26 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. Or at least you will be more willing to just let me do it. I don't know.

00:48:30 ◼   ► But like, there are things that over time have just settled into each show, dependent on like

00:48:37 ◼   ► the overlapping interests. Like for example, upstream. Talking about streaming services and

00:48:43 ◼   ► the content is way more a me and Jason thing than it would be with you two, right? Because I don't

00:48:49 ◼   ► think that you two care about the inner workings of NBC too much but me and Jason seem to really

00:48:53 ◼   ► care about it because Jason cares about the entertainment. I really am just fascinated in

00:48:58 ◼   ► the way that businesses work so that's why that works. So like you know each show has its own

00:49:03 ◼   ► things on the face of it they seem like they would be the same but they're actually not at all.

00:49:09 ◼   ► Yep I think that's a good answer. I have no complaints.

00:49:12 ◼   ► Dr. Geek asks do you feel that Relay is too Apple centric rather than technology as a whole?

00:49:17 ◼   ► I would say there's always room to add non Apple tech stuff like we did with download.

00:49:22 ◼   ► There are a couple of things though, if you look at the wider like tech podcasting scene,

00:49:28 ◼   ► it is a lot of Apple centric stuff. Of course, we have material that covers Google and Android.

00:49:33 ◼   ► But like, you'd be hard pressed to find a really successful or a handful of successful shows,

00:49:40 ◼   ► covering like Microsoft and Windows or covering Amazon and its products. So I don't think there's

00:49:46 ◼   ► really room for like a Windows focused PC focused show. But I think there there is always room to go

00:49:52 ◼   ► a little bit broader. For us. We started is sort of in this area covering Apple is most of the

00:49:59 ◼   ► people we work with cover Apple. And I feel like we've done a good job at diversifying the types

00:50:06 ◼   ► of shows that cover this stuff. And you know, things like upgrade, which you know, also cover

00:50:09 ◼   ► media streaming, like you said, adding things to it organically. But it hasn't been a problem. And

00:50:15 ◼   ► And in fact, there are strengths to it that sponsors who have products or services that

00:50:23 ◼   ► integrate into the Apple ecosystem, or they want Apple's customers to be their customers,

00:50:28 ◼   ► you know, we are in a good position as far as that's concerned.

00:50:30 ◼   ► So it hasn't ever really, I don't think it's ever really a problem.

00:50:34 ◼   ► And I don't think Apple's gonna go out of business anytime soon.

00:50:37 ◼   ► So I think we're okay there too.

00:50:39 ◼   ► I don't think it's an issue.

00:50:41 ◼   ► Like, I don't think really FM needs to be all things to all people.

00:50:45 ◼   ► it's just not a thing that we need to do, right? We do have an audience focus, that's

00:50:51 ◼   ► kind of where we fit, and that's just kind of where we are. We have a lot of shows that

00:50:57 ◼   ► are not about Appleton. Honestly, if you look at our roster today, our roster of shows,

00:51:03 ◼   ► that is not the majority anymore, like talking about Apple. It's not by any stretch of the

00:51:09 ◼   ► imagination.

00:51:10 ◼   ► We've got video game coverage, we have space with Liftoff, we have creativity in art, design

00:51:19 ◼   ► development.

00:51:20 ◼   ► Weird Wikipedia articles.

00:51:22 ◼   ► Yes, that's the key.

00:51:24 ◼   ► Lists of things.

00:51:26 ◼   ► I just think that it's not the majority of shows anymore.

00:51:30 ◼   ► The people that host them are mostly in that world.

00:51:35 ◼   ► That's a different thing.

00:51:36 ◼   ► I think that's maybe why it feels that way.

00:51:37 ◼   ► All right, Hunter asks, "You have so many shows centered

00:51:40 ◼   ► around technology that assume the audience has

00:51:42 ◼   ► some basic knowledge of how computers work.

00:51:44 ◼   ► Would you consider a show focused on the basic whys

00:51:48 ◼   ► and hows of computing?"

00:51:49 ◼   ► So this question made me think of query.

00:51:53 ◼   ► And query had sort of this fundamental issue

00:51:56 ◼   ► at the heart of it of people that

00:51:58 ◼   ► have these sorts of questions aren't podcast listeners.

00:52:02 ◼   ► And if they are, they're not listening

00:52:05 ◼   ► to podcasts on tech networks, right?

00:52:08 ◼   ► They're listening to mainstream stuff.

00:52:10 ◼   ► And so there's that issue where there's a mismatch

00:52:15 ◼   ► of desired audience and actual audience.

00:52:18 ◼   ► There's also the thing that I also struggled with on query.

00:52:20 ◼   ► And MPU, we do a pretty good job of this

00:52:22 ◼   ► 'cause David has so much experience in it

00:52:24 ◼   ► and I'm learning kind of from him how to do this better.

00:52:27 ◼   ► But it's actually kind of hard to explain

00:52:30 ◼   ► some concepts in technology,

00:52:32 ◼   ► especially basic concepts, just over audio.

00:52:35 ◼   ► You do need some sort of common denominator of understanding

00:52:40 ◼   ► to make that work.

00:52:41 ◼   ► So for instance, we did an episode of "NPU"

00:52:44 ◼   ► a while back about Keyboard Maestro.

00:52:46 ◼   ► And we spent the first 20 minutes

00:52:48 ◼   ► talking about the interface of Keyboard Maestro.

00:52:50 ◼   ► But really, that show was designed for you

00:52:52 ◼   ► to go, look at the show notes, and maybe

00:52:54 ◼   ► download the trial of the app and listen

00:52:55 ◼   ► as you're checking it out.

00:52:57 ◼   ► There's a tricky line to walk there.

00:53:00 ◼   ► But having a show that's really focused on the basics,

00:53:03 ◼   ► that could probably work on YouTube,

00:53:04 ◼   ► that can work on the web,

00:53:05 ◼   ► I don't know if it works in podcasting as well.

00:53:08 ◼   ► - That is a very good answer that I was not thinking of,

00:53:11 ◼   ► so you did a much better job than I would have

00:53:13 ◼   ► at that question, so thank you for taking that one.

00:53:15 ◼   ► - You bet.

00:53:16 ◼   ► - Kate wants to know, what is it like employing someone?

00:53:18 ◼   ► How has it changed the split of roles between the two of us,

00:53:21 ◼   ► and how has the roles of these people changed over time?

00:53:25 ◼   ► We have five contractors now that we work with, right? Five, six people that have

00:53:34 ◼   ► various levels of time that they give to us from a few hours a month to like 20 hours a week,

00:53:44 ◼   ► you know? There's like a scale that we have across the different people that we work with.

00:53:48 ◼   ► It's definitely changed the way that we work, me and you, because we don't have to do all the

00:53:54 ◼   ► things anymore and has changed our jobs in the sense that we have a lot more

00:53:58 ◼   ► things that we're just working on oversight of as opposed to like the

00:54:02 ◼   ► actual nuts and bolts. You know my kind of feeling on like what is it like

00:54:05 ◼   ► employing someone if you find the right person it's fantastic. That's well

00:54:10 ◼   ► said. I think too I think it changes the way we work because we're not just

00:54:14 ◼   ► working alone so like if we have an idea for something or we want to change

00:54:20 ◼   ► something, we are now working with the people who would be involved in that, right?

00:54:26 ◼   ► So when you're talking about the sales process, or again, this live show is just in my mind,

00:54:31 ◼   ► so I apologize, I keep using this example.

00:54:33 ◼   ► There's a lot of moving parts there, and so I have help doing some of these things that

00:54:38 ◼   ► in the past I would have done by myself, and it would have been really stressful.

00:54:43 ◼   ► And having somebody come alongside me and take some of those things, and I trust them

00:54:47 ◼   ► that it will be done correctly in the way that I want and all those things is a huge,

00:54:53 ◼   ► a huge deal. And it frees us up to focus on what we need to focus on, but also like honestly,

00:54:58 ◼   ► we're a better company for it. We're a better company for having these other people helping

00:55:02 ◼   ► us and bringing their expertise and their know-how and their attention to detail to

00:55:08 ◼   ► their various components of the company that they touch.

00:55:10 ◼   ► There is like an incredibly valuable thing in having somebody say to you, "Why do you

00:55:14 ◼   ► do it this way?"

00:55:15 ◼   ► Uh huh.

00:55:16 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:55:17 ◼   ► Because that's how we've always done it.

00:55:19 ◼   ► Because in 2015, we didn't know what we were doing.

00:55:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:22 ◼   ► So we do it that way for like four more years.

00:55:25 ◼   ► Yeah, we run way better now because we have other people.

00:55:28 ◼   ► Like when you're not just doing something on your own,

00:55:31 ◼   ► when you have other people that you're working with,

00:55:33 ◼   ► it forces you to standardize some stuff.

00:55:35 ◼   ► And that is very valuable.

00:55:38 ◼   ► Yeah, it also allows us to be more ambitious with things

00:55:43 ◼   ► because we're able to grow.

00:55:45 ◼   ► So that's been really great.

00:55:46 ◼   ► You know, I guess kind of we still do have a division between us, right.

00:55:50 ◼   ► And like who manages what in our company.

00:55:53 ◼   ► And the way that it works is like those contractors naturally sit

00:55:57 ◼   ► in the divisions that me and Steven have created for ourselves.

00:56:00 ◼   ► So like I very rarely interact with a wonderful developer

00:56:05 ◼   ► because it's just not.

00:56:08 ◼   ► I can't help.

00:56:10 ◼   ► So it's pointless.

00:56:11 ◼   ► I tell all I do is tend to cause work for him in like not a good way, you know, just

00:56:18 ◼   ► like, what about this, this, this, this, this, and this, and then I leave the slack room.

00:56:22 ◼   ► But you know, it's just that is your skill set, like, so you manage that. And it works

00:56:28 ◼   ► well that way.

00:56:29 ◼   ► Yeah, I take your crazy ideas and I

00:56:31 ◼   ► filter them,

00:56:33 ◼   ► filter them. That's, that's the word I was looking for. And yeah, I mean, and you know,

00:56:38 ◼   ► handle the sales side of the company, right? I'm not out there selling ads. We

00:56:43 ◼   ► tried that. I'm really bad at it, like hilariously bad at it, and you and that

00:56:49 ◼   ► part of the company, you know, I can speak into that if I have an idea or a

00:56:53 ◼   ► question, but that's sort of your side. And so when things come in to our shared

00:56:57 ◼   ► inbox or there's a question from a host, you and I know kind of who needs to pick

00:57:02 ◼   ► that up. Very rarely is there something that comes into the company that I'm like,

00:57:05 ◼   ► I'm not actually sure who should do this."

00:57:08 ◼   ► Or you know, it's become very clear every time.

00:57:12 ◼   ► Gray gave us this advice years ago of like, we should have a, what's the word I'm looking

00:57:17 ◼   ► for Myke?

00:57:18 ◼   ► Silo.

00:57:19 ◼   ► An organizational chart.

00:57:21 ◼   ► Oh no, that didn't come from Gray, it came from a book that we read on Cortex.

00:57:24 ◼   ► Close enough.

00:57:25 ◼   ► I give Gray credit.

00:57:26 ◼   ► He's not going to hear this.

00:57:27 ◼   ► It came from a book that y'all read on Cortex.

00:57:32 ◼   ► An organizational chart makes a lot of sense.

00:57:34 ◼   ► And we did that when we were a company of two.

00:57:36 ◼   ► We did that years ago.

00:57:37 ◼   ► And as we've added roles and as we've expanded what we do,

00:57:42 ◼   ► that is still the template for where things go.

00:57:45 ◼   ► And honestly, I think we did a pretty good job

00:57:47 ◼   ► when we did that because we haven't changed much of it

00:57:49 ◼   ► over the years.

00:57:50 ◼   ► We've just expanded based on it.

00:57:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause I think we haven't really moved

00:57:55 ◼   ► into other areas, right?

00:57:57 ◼   ► Or just August, maybe like when we started doing

00:58:00 ◼   ► more merchandise stuff,

00:58:01 ◼   ► that just felt like something that was naturally your thing. The E myth revisited was the book,

00:58:07 ◼   ► bad book, good piece of advice. Alright, before we move on to our next set of questions I want

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00:59:34 ◼   ► FM. Alright, Brian asks, Is there any podcasting gear that

00:59:38 ◼   ► you are currently desiring?

00:59:40 ◼   ► No, I put this in for you. Like I don't want to touch anything

00:59:45 ◼   ► in my setup. I'm pretty happy.

00:59:47 ◼   ► I just bought something for our live show. I was limited to

00:59:51 ◼   ► Recording four tracks at once on my previous recorder and now I can do ten. I bought what is it?

00:59:56 ◼   ► We bought the sound devices. Hang on. I like the way I like like when we wait

01:00:01 ◼   ► Well, I mean, I mean as you're like it has literally anything to do with me. I mean, it's your money, too

01:00:06 ◼   ► I'm looking at the box sound devices mix pre 10. Is it the 10 or the 10 T? Ooh

01:00:12 ◼   ► 10 T don't know if there is a 10 10 T. Maybe it's just 10 T

01:00:18 ◼   ► I don't know what the T isn't there for.

01:00:21 ◼   ► Totally awesome, I think.

01:00:23 ◼   ► So that will go out for the first time in our San Francisco show.

01:00:26 ◼   ► So I had a picture on Instagram a couple days ago setting it up in my office and getting

01:00:30 ◼   ► all the settings the way I want them and stuff.

01:00:32 ◼   ► It's a really incredible piece of hardware.

01:00:34 ◼   ► You know, past that, at this point, I really only buy gear when something breaks or my

01:00:40 ◼   ► needs expand like this that makes pre-10T.

01:00:43 ◼   ► I would not just go out and buy this, but we had a need and we want to do bigger, more

01:00:47 ◼   ► ambitious things so more tracks at once is important so we now own that. Usually

01:00:52 ◼   ► what happens is Stephen's like hmm this is gonna be difficult to do with the

01:00:56 ◼   ► gear and I'm like alright so what other options do we have and he goes away

01:01:00 ◼   ► and he looks it's like well there's this thing but I don't know and so just buy it.

01:01:03 ◼   ► Yeah pretty much out goes. We are an audio company like we need gear there's no

01:01:08 ◼   ► harm because then you're like oh so let's just keep it all like just you

01:01:10 ◼   ► have a big club cabinets just put the gear in the cabinet because we're not

01:01:15 ◼   ► always gonna need the 10T. Sometimes we might need the 6 or whatever it was you

01:01:18 ◼   ► heard before. Like you do not need to bring the 10T to San Jose because we

01:01:22 ◼   ► don't need 6 microphones next year. We're just gonna need 3. But it's super cool. But you have the

01:01:27 ◼   ► smaller one is just as good right? This is a wild question.

01:01:32 ◼   ► Majd asks which podcast do you feel most like your regular self when you

01:01:39 ◼   ► recall? This came from the chat room. That is so good. That is so good and I don't

01:01:44 ◼   ► know... all right so I feel like every show that I do by and large has just like a

01:01:51 ◼   ► different part of who I am in it depending on what is needed right? I

01:01:56 ◼   ► would say that like it's probably this show or Bonanza where I'm more just like

01:02:03 ◼   ► who I am as opposed to like holding something back specifically because it's

01:02:08 ◼   ► not really appropriate for the show. Business Myke. Yeah it's like if you're

01:02:12 ◼   ► being serious, which I feel like I'm being serious on most of my other shows by and large,

01:02:19 ◼   ► right? Cortex is pretty relaxed, but we have quite a narrow subject kind of area that we

01:02:28 ◼   ► pull from, right? Maybe playing for fun as well a little bit, but yeah, the shows where

01:02:34 ◼   ► I'm more relaxed are definitely where I'm more who I am most of the time.

01:02:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I think Connected is it for me out of my four.

01:02:44 ◼   ► We've been doing it the longest out of all the shows I do, and so we're the most comfortable

01:02:48 ◼   ► with each other.

01:02:49 ◼   ► It is the show that has the tendency to go off the rails, the easiest, you know.

01:02:54 ◼   ► Which shows more of who you are, right?

01:02:56 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:02:57 ◼   ► I think in those scenarios.

01:02:58 ◼   ► But it isn't always like appropriate.

01:03:00 ◼   ► That's true.

01:03:01 ◼   ► You know, Liftoff is pretty serious, MPU is pretty serious.

01:03:03 ◼   ► A genius like in a way, like so I need you to script it.

01:03:06 ◼   ► So I write those, even the jokes and everything, but we are playing roles on that show, right?

01:03:13 ◼   ► There are jokes that I want to make.

01:03:15 ◼   ► Yeah, because you make me a conspiracy theory acceptor all the time.

01:03:19 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:03:20 ◼   ► So they have like, we have lanes on that show.

01:03:23 ◼   ► So I would say out of my four it's connected.

01:03:25 ◼   ► Ted asks, "Do you think that Relay will ever start using video in podcasts?"

01:03:29 ◼   ► I'm going to answer this in two parts.

01:03:31 ◼   ► One, I think doing-

01:03:33 ◼   ► No, two, maybe.

01:03:35 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

01:03:37 ◼   ► One, no.

01:03:38 ◼   ► Two, yes.

01:03:39 ◼   ► I think that if we just added video to what we do now,

01:03:42 ◼   ► it would be incredibly boring and not very compelling.

01:03:46 ◼   ► Because it's just people--

01:03:47 ◼   ► I don't think it would add a lot.

01:03:48 ◼   ► No, it's just people staring into a camera

01:03:50 ◼   ► with a microphone and headphones.

01:03:52 ◼   ► There is a universe where Relay does pure-- or adds

01:03:56 ◼   ► some sort of video component that's way down the road,

01:03:59 ◼   ► if ever, because that would require a lot more people

01:04:02 ◼   ► and space and how do we do that when we're 100% remote.

01:04:05 ◼   ► But I think doing like just making connected video podcasts just isn't

01:04:10 ◼   ► interesting to me because it's just us sitting in the dark talking about

01:04:14 ◼   ► computers.

01:04:15 ◼   ► Zach asks, what are the origins of your switch on tagline

01:04:20 ◼   ► that you saw have sort of had but have never used?

01:04:24 ◼   ► And why haven't you ended up using it?

01:04:26 ◼   ► This is 100 percent your thing.

01:04:29 ◼   ► So if you're wondering like, like, what are you talking about?

01:04:32 ◼   ► It's in the footer of our of our website.

01:04:35 ◼   ► and it's in some Twitter banners, it pops up every now and then, switch on.

01:04:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean I just felt like we needed a tagline, and so we did that and it just never got used.

01:04:45 ◼   ► It's not in like the official logo we use, it's kind of in the footer sometimes.

01:04:50 ◼   ► It used to be in more places than it is now.

01:04:52 ◼   ► It has slowly faded.

01:04:54 ◼   ► Because it never caught on and we never used it for any... like I never think about it until I see it.

01:04:59 ◼   ► Do you even remember like why?

01:05:01 ◼   ► No, like why switch on?

01:05:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:04 ◼   ► I mean, I think we just felt like we needed something more and I don't know, it never

01:05:09 ◼   ► really went anywhere, it was fine.

01:05:10 ◼   ► I mean, I naturally expect like we're doing this thing again where Simon's going to send

01:05:14 ◼   ► us a message and be like, oh, I came up with that, like the entire name for the company.

01:05:18 ◼   ► He did.

01:05:19 ◼   ► Which is always funny.

01:05:20 ◼   ► It's like, I don't remember where the name of our company came from.

01:05:21 ◼   ► I'm sure, well, even me or Steven recommended it, but our designer Simon came up with it

01:05:26 ◼   ► because he's a genius.

01:05:27 ◼   ► And so I expect that he probably came up with Switch On as well, but you really like took

01:05:32 ◼   ► it.

01:05:33 ◼   ► This made me want to bring up relay.fm.

01:05:36 ◼   ► Oh my gosh.

01:05:37 ◼   ► Okay.

01:05:38 ◼   ► Because you did it during the Pingdom ad.

01:05:40 ◼   ► No, yeah I did.

01:05:42 ◼   ► I was kind of like going for the URL.

01:05:44 ◼   ► Uh huh.

01:05:45 ◼   ► But you get the URLs on none of the other websites.

01:05:47 ◼   ► But now if I edited that ad like I was going to, now I have to cut this out so you've created

01:05:51 ◼   ► some sort of paradox in my editing?

01:05:52 ◼   ► No, because you're going to have to keep that in because I'm talking about this whole "I

01:05:56 ◼   ► want to talk about relay.fm" as a thing right now.

01:05:58 ◼   ► Because this definitely ties into your feelings.

01:06:03 ◼   ► So the switch on tagline was something that you really liked and I didn't dislike it,

01:06:07 ◼   ► but you really wanted it used in a lot of places, right?

01:06:11 ◼   ► Because you are a person who believes in consistency of branding, which has been very useful for

01:06:17 ◼   ► us just from a branding perspective, which is why I also, in my mind, the design part

01:06:22 ◼   ► of our business mostly falls in your remit, right?

01:06:25 ◼   ► Because you're very good at that.

01:06:28 ◼   ► But this also comes to the name of our company, right? The name of our company is Relay FM.

01:06:34 ◼   ► That is the name of our company.

01:06:35 ◼   ► Yes.

01:06:36 ◼   ► A lot of people write it as Relay.fm, which I totally understand because it's our URL.

01:06:40 ◼   ► If you're going to write something not correct, at least putting the URL in instead is good,

01:06:44 ◼   ► right? Instead of calling it like Real FM, which we get a lot. R-E-A-L, which is hilarious.

01:06:51 ◼   ► So like, you know, if you're going to do it that way. But that I know frustrates you greatly.

01:06:56 ◼   ► But the funniest thing is the idea that when we launched, we decided we were never going

01:07:01 ◼   ► to call it Relay.

01:07:02 ◼   ► We would always refer to it as Relay FM.

01:07:06 ◼   ► And when people started calling it Relay, it was like, "No, don't do it.

01:07:09 ◼   ► Don't do that.

01:07:10 ◼   ► Call it Relay FM."

01:07:11 ◼   ► At this point, we've let that go completely.

01:07:14 ◼   ► We have.

01:07:15 ◼   ► Yeah, because we just lost that battle.

01:07:19 ◼   ► But like, even me and you, like, just naturally, it just felt like, "Oh, I can't even keep

01:07:23 ◼   ► hold of this."

01:07:24 ◼   ► Right, that I would just call it Relay.

01:07:26 ◼   ► So that's one thing that slipped away,

01:07:29 ◼   ► is the idea of Relay FM.

01:07:30 ◼   ► But the Relay.fm thing, I know is just like--

01:07:33 ◼   ► It bothers me.

01:07:34 ◼   ► You're never going to win that battle.

01:07:35 ◼   ► But I agree with you that we have to try to keep it.

01:07:38 ◼   ► Because our company's name is not Relay.fm.

01:07:41 ◼   ► It is Relay FM.

01:07:42 ◼   ► That is the company.

01:07:44 ◼   ► But as I say, as far as getting something slightly wrong,

01:07:48 ◼   ► having the actual URL is like, that works pretty good.

01:07:51 ◼   ► It irks me sometimes when our hosts do it.

01:07:54 ◼   ► That's really what irks me.

01:07:56 ◼   ► But you did it.

01:07:57 ◼   ► Well, I was going to fix it, but then we did all this.

01:08:01 ◼   ► I just want everybody to know that you're fallible.

01:08:03 ◼   ► On occasion, I make a tiny error.

01:08:06 ◼   ► But yeah, switch on.

01:08:07 ◼   ► Maybe one day we will have a new tagline that we'll use more.

01:08:11 ◼   ► But for now, switch on.

01:08:13 ◼   ► I think the only places on the website is in the footer.

01:08:16 ◼   ► Yeah, and then there's a few Twitter banners.

01:08:18 ◼   ► I remember when you were very, very consistent on Twitter

01:08:21 ◼   ► banners all being the same.

01:08:22 ◼   ► Yes.

01:08:23 ◼   ► and the Twitter handles and I lost that too.

01:08:25 ◼   ► The problem is with consistency--

01:08:27 ◼   ► - Because our format of Twitter handles is bad.

01:08:28 ◼   ► - It is bad.

01:08:29 ◼   ► The problem with consistency is

01:08:30 ◼   ► once you start adding people, you just lose, right?

01:08:33 ◼   ► Like if it's just me and you doing everything,

01:08:35 ◼   ► I can enforce it.

01:08:37 ◼   ► - All right, so I wanna make a petition now

01:08:38 ◼   ► to see if anybody can help us.

01:08:40 ◼   ► @RelayFM has always been suspended.

01:08:44 ◼   ► If anybody can help us get that, please help us.

01:08:48 ◼   ► We have tried the trademark route.

01:08:49 ◼   ► We have a trademark on our name.

01:08:51 ◼   ► Twitter will not pay any attention to our requests.

01:08:53 ◼   ► The reason that so many of our shows

01:08:55 ◼   ► are underscore something FM

01:08:56 ◼   ► is because we couldn't get relay FM.

01:08:59 ◼   ► I would really like that Twitter handle.

01:09:01 ◼   ► - Me too.

01:09:02 ◼   ► - Like wouldn't that be nice to have?

01:09:04 ◼   ► No one has used it in over five years it has been suspended.

01:09:09 ◼   ► We would really like it.

01:09:10 ◼   ► And then we could go for a little bit more consistency

01:09:12 ◼   ► in our names by dropping the underscores where possible.

01:09:15 ◼   ► - All right, Lee asks,

01:09:16 ◼   ► how do you plan getting new voices onto the network

01:09:19 ◼   ► rather than the usual rotation.

01:09:21 ◼   ► - Can I answer this?

01:09:22 ◼   ► - Sure.

01:09:23 ◼   ► - So I've been thinking about this question a lot.

01:09:25 ◼   ► I think that where we are today in 2019,

01:09:29 ◼   ► I'm happy with the progress that we have made

01:09:31 ◼   ► from when we started.

01:09:33 ◼   ► When we started, we had zero diversity in our host makeup.

01:09:38 ◼   ► And since then, we have worked very hard

01:09:43 ◼   ► to try and balance that a little bit better.

01:09:46 ◼   ► I'm happy with the progress we've made.

01:09:47 ◼   ► there is always more progress to make, right?

01:09:50 ◼   ► Like you can always continue to go down that route.

01:09:53 ◼   ► So I, you know, we are always gonna continue working on it.

01:09:57 ◼   ► I am happy that I believe that we have helped

01:10:00 ◼   ► some shows get off the ground with hosts

01:10:02 ◼   ► that were new to podcasting.

01:10:04 ◼   ► Well, I know that they were, right?

01:10:05 ◼   ► Like we have helped many people, it was like their first show

01:10:08 ◼   ► they've been as part of a panel and that's really great.

01:10:11 ◼   ► And I would like for us to continue to keep doing that.

01:10:16 ◼   ► Unfortunately, we do not have the ability to work with everyone that we would want to.

01:10:21 ◼   ► As it stands right now, we have very limited resources that we're able to... because we're

01:10:26 ◼   ► very involved, right, to a point.

01:10:29 ◼   ► And I think that we have limited resources.

01:10:32 ◼   ► Even if we never need to interact with the host of a show, still having any show on the

01:10:38 ◼   ► network takes resources from us.

01:10:41 ◼   ► Like attention and making sure that everything's taken care of.

01:10:45 ◼   ► Because I don't want anybody to ever be on relay FM and it's like, oh, it's basically

01:10:50 ◼   ► like just having an account at Libsyn, right?

01:10:53 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:10:54 ◼   ► Because we're not a podcast host, right?

01:10:57 ◼   ► We are not a place where someone just hosts a show.

01:11:00 ◼   ► We don't want to be like that.

01:11:01 ◼   ► So we don't have the ability to take really any of the pitches that we get because we

01:11:06 ◼   ► get daily people wanting to have shows on the network.

01:11:11 ◼   ► And it's just not something that we're able to do.

01:11:13 ◼   ► And one of the reasons for this is because we cannot guarantee success for any person

01:11:18 ◼   ► or any show.

01:11:19 ◼   ► And this is especially true for people that are brand new.

01:11:22 ◼   ► So we give resources and advice and assistance, but it is impossible for us to help somebody

01:11:29 ◼   ► find a sizable and long lasting audience.

01:11:31 ◼   ► This is not a thing.

01:11:33 ◼   ► We are not able to take Real AFM listeners and just point them towards a new show.

01:11:39 ◼   ► We can do everything we can to promote it.

01:11:41 ◼   ► We can mention it.

01:11:42 ◼   ► We can have it.

01:11:43 ◼   ► not a thing where we can guarantee success for somebody. This is just not a thing. I

01:11:47 ◼   ► wished it was, but it isn't. So we can give all of the assistance that we can, but we

01:11:53 ◼   ► can never make guarantees. So this is something that needs to come from the show, the individuals

01:11:59 ◼   ► from the content to help grow something. So we have to continue to find a balance between

01:12:04 ◼   ► new people and people with existing audiences. Because if we have limited time, considering

01:12:09 ◼   ► we are a business, like we need our shows to make sense for us.

01:12:13 ◼   ► And if people want to make money from a show, they have to have an audience

01:12:18 ◼   ► that they're bringing to the show.

01:12:19 ◼   ► And there isn't too much, unfortunately, that we are able to do to guarantee

01:12:25 ◼   ► that for someone. We cannot guarantee it.

01:12:26 ◼   ► So basically, this is a really long way of saying I think we have brought a lot

01:12:31 ◼   ► of people in that you may have never heard of before, but now they're like

01:12:35 ◼   ► really popular and successful people.

01:12:38 ◼   ► We are continuing to try and do that.

01:12:40 ◼   ► We have a show launching pretty soon that has a host that I would expect

01:12:46 ◼   ► the vast majority of our audience has never heard of before

01:12:48 ◼   ► because they're in a completely different world to technology.

01:12:50 ◼   ► So we're going to keep trying to do that,

01:12:53 ◼   ► but we can't really just take pictures anymore.

01:12:58 ◼   ► I mean, it tends to be that a show that we launch on Relay,

01:13:01 ◼   ► one of the hosts is known to us or known to someone on our network.

01:13:05 ◼   ► And there's been like, I think that you should talk to this person kind of thing.

01:13:08 ◼   ► because that's just where we are. We are at a stage right now where we can't add

01:13:13 ◼   ► shows very easily. So when we do add shows we do think long and hard about

01:13:20 ◼   ► the makeup of the people because we are not in a position anymore where we can

01:13:25 ◼   ► just add as many shows as we want. So when we have a new opportunity come our

01:13:28 ◼   ► way we're like is this meeting the goals that we have as a company for what we

01:13:32 ◼   ► want our diversity to look like and we just keep working on it and we keep

01:13:35 ◼   ► trying but we're not in really a place where we can just do everything. I hope

01:13:42 ◼   ► that that has answered the question.

01:13:44 ◼   ► Yeah, well said. I don't have anything to add.

01:13:46 ◼   ► Max asks, "I was curious what traits you find are best in a host. Who do you like

01:13:52 ◼   ► and what do you like listening to and what do you look for in hosts for shows?"

01:13:55 ◼   ► I think it's somebody who has a point of view and a voice that is unique but also

01:14:04 ◼   ► like with that on the the opposite of the coin is somebody who can do it for

01:14:08 ◼   ► like the long haul there are lots of people who have good ideas but we want

01:14:13 ◼   ► to work with people and want to do projects that are long-lasting and if

01:14:17 ◼   ► you look at our roster over the five over the five years there have been

01:14:22 ◼   ► shows that have ended I spoke about you know three of them that I know the vast

01:14:26 ◼   ► majority of shows that have ended have come from you yes I'm at the graves for

01:14:30 ◼   ► all three of those shows myself.

01:14:32 ◼   ► But really, most of our shows last a long time

01:14:35 ◼   ► and we wanna have relationships with hosts that span years.

01:14:39 ◼   ► And so that's something we always look at too,

01:14:41 ◼   ► both from an idea perspective and a host perspective.

01:14:43 ◼   ► But somebody who can bring something unique to the table

01:14:45 ◼   ► with their background, their expertise,

01:14:49 ◼   ► their view of the world that is unique and interesting,

01:14:53 ◼   ► that seems really easy, but it's not.

01:14:57 ◼   ► And I think for both of us, we've either had always

01:15:03 ◼   ► or have learned kind of what that means

01:15:06 ◼   ► and what that looks like in different content areas.

01:15:10 ◼   ► And our final question comes from Odin.

01:15:12 ◼   ► What a name.

01:15:13 ◼   ► Who asks?

01:15:14 ◼   ► I know.

01:15:14 ◼   ► I don't think-- I'm not sure if this is their real name.

01:15:16 ◼   ► It may be the name that they choose on Twitter.

01:15:18 ◼   ► I hope it is their real name.

01:15:20 ◼   ► Maybe they're the real Odin.

01:15:21 ◼   ► Oh, boy.

01:15:22 ◼   ► Then this question has even more gravity now

01:15:24 ◼   ► that Odin was Lord of Thunder.

01:15:26 ◼   ► God of Thunder is asking this.

01:15:28 ◼   ► Oh, no, Thor is God of Thunder.

01:15:30 ◼   ► Odin is just like, anyway, Odin's Thor's dad,

01:15:32 ◼   ► but I don't remember what Odin is God of, if anything.

01:15:35 ◼   ► Anyway, how has your company strategy changed

01:15:38 ◼   ► as you look at the next five years?

01:15:40 ◼   ► How will you ensure that you keep trying new things?

01:15:42 ◼   ► I don't think you have to keep trying new things, do you?

01:15:45 ◼   ► Is that a thing?

01:15:47 ◼   ► - I think that you need, we need, we are,

01:15:50 ◼   ► like I think we've done a good job of this,

01:15:51 ◼   ► of evolving our idea over time,

01:15:54 ◼   ► and evolving what a relay FM show is, and how it works,

01:15:59 ◼   ► that is something we will always look at.

01:16:03 ◼   ► We always wanna make sure that we're remaining relevant,

01:16:04 ◼   ► and we wanna make sure that we're remaining interesting.

01:16:07 ◼   ► - And maybe that's what new things means, right?

01:16:10 ◼   ► Sometimes. - Yes.

01:16:11 ◼   ► I don't think new things mean that we're going to start

01:16:14 ◼   ► all of a sudden a YouTube channel,

01:16:16 ◼   ► or we're going to start a consulting firm

01:16:19 ◼   ► you and I are doing something on the side, you know, based on

01:16:23 ◼   ► really like, I don't think it's that stuff. For me, it's always

01:16:27 ◼   ► remembering what works and and how we got to where we are

01:16:31 ◼   ► through hard work of ourselves and hard work of other people.

01:16:34 ◼   ► And the relationships we have with our hosts, that's the most

01:16:36 ◼   ► important thing to me. And, and making sure that that recipe is

01:16:42 ◼   ► always tended to and that it works in the environment that

01:16:44 ◼   ► we're in. And our industry has seen a lot of change over the

01:16:48 ◼   ► last five years and I think the next five years could see even more change

01:16:52 ◼   ► with more players coming in, companies, big media companies coming in spending

01:16:59 ◼   ► lots of money, doing lots of things. Some will be successful, some will not. Through

01:17:04 ◼   ► all of that what what will keep Relay FM alive and well is us... Relay.fm.

01:17:10 ◼   ► Relay.fm switch on. What will keep us switching on is really remembering and

01:17:18 ◼   ► focusing on what makes relay stuff good, but with an eye cut towards, are there any big

01:17:23 ◼   ► shifts happening in the larger ecosystem that we need to be aware of? And so far, just candidly,

01:17:30 ◼   ► there haven't been many, you have companies doing big stuff. Now that's really affected us. We work

01:17:36 ◼   ► with some of those companies, we know a lot of people doing interesting things. But what what

01:17:41 ◼   ► has made relay from successful for the last five years, that will be a thread through the next

01:17:45 ◼   ► five, I guarantee it.

01:17:47 ◼   ► I love that answer. What a great way to finish. Switch off, Stephen.

01:17:50 ◼   ► Switch off! Someone had a really good idea in the chat room that we should replace switch on with

01:17:56 ◼   ► a text from the challenge coin, which also for sale in the store, the text is creative,

01:18:02 ◼   ► curious, obsessive. That is our actual, like, we came up with that as like the secondary tagline,

01:18:09 ◼   ► I guess, but didn't use it everywhere. Relay FM is an independent podcast network of people who

01:18:14 ◼   ► who are creative, curious, and maybe a little obsessive.

01:18:17 ◼   ► Just like its hosts.

01:18:18 ◼   ► Yeah, it should say creative, curious, obsessive.

01:18:20 ◼   ► I like that.

01:18:21 ◼   ► Who came up with that?

01:18:21 ◼   ► - That was, I'm scrolling in the chatroom, I'm sorry.

01:18:24 ◼   ► Dave G.

01:18:26 ◼   ► - Thanks, Dave G.

01:18:27 ◼   ► - Thanks, Dave G.

01:18:28 ◼   ► Dave G, if you don't own a challenge coin,

01:18:30 ◼   ► shoot me an email.

01:18:31 ◼   ► We'll send you one.

01:18:32 ◼   ► - Oh, damn, son.

01:18:33 ◼   ► Look at that.

01:18:34 ◼   ► - You have to prove you're Dave G somehow

01:18:35 ◼   ► because IRC is useless.

01:18:38 ◼   ► All right, so there are some links in the show notes.

01:18:41 ◼   ► Mostly we just talked about ourselves, so sorry about that.

01:18:44 ◼   ► But you can find those at relay.fm/connected/256.

01:18:46 ◼   ► Don't apologize.

01:18:47 ◼   ► Be proud of yourself.

01:18:48 ◼   ► 256.

01:18:49 ◼   ► You did this.

01:18:50 ◼   ► You did this.

01:18:51 ◼   ► Five years, you did this.

01:18:52 ◼   ► Be proud of yourself.

01:18:53 ◼   ► You did too.

01:18:54 ◼   ► I'm just saying, I am proud of myself.

01:18:57 ◼   ► Oh, don't worry.

01:18:57 ◼   ► No one needs to tell me.

01:18:58 ◼   ► No one needs to tell me.

01:18:59 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

01:19:01 ◼   ► If there's one thing I can do, it's be proud of myself.

01:19:03 ◼   ► Totally fine.

01:19:05 ◼   ► Own it, man.

01:19:05 ◼   ► You did this.

01:19:06 ◼   ► Yes.

01:19:07 ◼   ► Don't apologize.

01:19:07 ◼   ► Anyways, so there's some links there.

01:19:09 ◼   ► If you're listening to this the day it comes out,

01:19:11 ◼   ► the day after it comes out, and you

01:19:12 ◼   ► You won a Relay FM 5th anniversary shirt.

01:19:14 ◼   ► Time is running out, so go check that out over

01:19:17 ◼   ► on cottonbureau.com/stores/relay-fm.

01:19:19 ◼   ► Pins and Challenge claims.

01:19:21 ◼   ► Still available.

01:19:22 ◼   ► Go buy them.

01:19:22 ◼   ► Sorry I just spoke over the URL.

01:19:24 ◼   ► Say it again.

01:19:25 ◼   ► I think it's relay.fm/store is the short version.

01:19:27 ◼   ► Let's see if that redirects.

01:19:29 ◼   ► Nice.

01:19:30 ◼   ► You just go to Cotton Bureau and search Relay FM

01:19:32 ◼   ► and you'll find it too.

01:19:32 ◼   ► Or just make it your home page.

01:19:34 ◼   ► I mean, honestly.

01:19:35 ◼   ► So you'll always be ready for the new merch.

01:19:37 ◼   ► That's right.

01:19:37 ◼   ► Merch.

01:19:38 ◼   ► Yeah, relay.fm/store.

01:19:40 ◼   ► Yes, that redirects.

01:19:41 ◼   ► That redirects.

01:19:42 ◼   ► - After two redirects, but it will take you there.

01:19:44 ◼   ► Don't worry about it, it's fine.

01:19:45 ◼   ► - Let's not talk about that.

01:19:46 ◼   ► - I don't wanna know what's holding that together.

01:19:49 ◼   ► - Tape.

01:19:50 ◼   ► Tape and luck.

01:19:51 ◼   ► You can also check out our membership

01:19:53 ◼   ► at relay.fm/membership.

01:19:56 ◼   ► We love our members.

01:19:57 ◼   ► We love everybody, but our members hold a special place

01:19:59 ◼   ► in our heart, you know, can't lie.

01:20:02 ◼   ► Favorites.

01:20:03 ◼   ► One day Federico will be back.

01:20:04 ◼   ► In the meantime, if you wanna follow him on Twitter,

01:20:06 ◼   ► you can do so at Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:20:09 ◼   ► - He's not gonna be here next week.

01:20:11 ◼   ► He's not going to be here next week because he's not coming to San Francisco.

01:20:14 ◼   ► He used to write at MacStories.net at some point, a beautiful iOS review will appear.

01:20:19 ◼   ► So stay tuned for that.

01:20:24 ◼   ► He's like in it.

01:20:26 ◼   ► He's not talking to us.

01:20:27 ◼   ► He's like...

01:20:28 ◼   ► Yeah, we spoke about this last time, right?

01:20:30 ◼   ► We're just not really sure if he's...

01:20:32 ◼   ► Like what's going on, if he's alive, if he's just all automated.

01:20:35 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:20:36 ◼   ► Oh my God.

01:20:37 ◼   ► I was adding previous Q&As to the show notes and I came across this 2017 and it's a video

01:20:44 ◼   ► and you look like a baby.

01:20:45 ◼   ► I didn't have a beard.

01:20:47 ◼   ► No beard.

01:20:48 ◼   ► So the previous QAs will be in the show notes.

01:20:52 ◼   ► Yep, that was as per request of Champion Question Ask a Kate.

01:20:56 ◼   ► Including one in which I'm very sick.

01:20:59 ◼   ► Very sick.

01:21:00 ◼   ► You're always so sick for the important things.

01:21:02 ◼   ► So you can follow Federico or what's left of him.

01:21:04 ◼   ► You can follow Myke on Twitter @imyke.

01:21:08 ◼   ► Myke, of course, is the host of a bunch of shows

01:21:10 ◼   ► at relay.fm/shows.

01:21:12 ◼   ► You can check those out.

01:21:14 ◼   ► You can follow me on Twitter as ismh

01:21:16 ◼   ► and I write 512pixels.net.

01:21:19 ◼   ► I have to thank our sponsors this week,

01:21:20 ◼   ► Pingdom, DoorDash, and Smile.

01:21:24 ◼   ► And until I see you in just a couple days, Myke,

01:21:27 ◼   ► say goodbye.

01:21:28 ◼   ► - See you tomorrow.

01:21:29 ◼   ► It's literally tomorrow.

01:21:31 ◼   ► - Sweet dreams!

01:21:32 ◼   ► (laughing)