256: Switch On


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   Hello and welcome to Connected episode 256.

00:00:12   It's made possible by our sponsors,

00:00:14   Pingdom, Smile, and DoorDash.

00:00:17   I'm your host, Steven Hackett,

00:00:18   and I'm joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci.

00:00:21   (birds cawing)

00:00:25   [

00:00:35   Laughter ]

00:00:37   And by Mr. Myke Curley. Well, I'm here. Yeah, you're not on the beach.

00:00:42   Hello. Hey, how are you? I'm very good. Are you? I feel like you need to provide some follow-up

00:00:50   about how you're feeling. Oh, I fractured my spine. Well, you're... I don't think we need to

00:00:55   go into it any further than that, do we? A vertebrae. Well, I still have a spine. I could

00:01:00   say I broke it. I broke my back. I've been saying that to some people. All of these things are

00:01:04   somewhat true. Yeah, your spine is like the gooey bits. No, no, no, no. The spine is the bone.

00:01:08   You're thinking of the spinal cord. Maybe. I didn't touch that. Okay. Luckily, the doctor was

00:01:16   very happy to show me that my spinal cord was intact.

00:01:19   But yeah, you may remember a few episodes ago when I was ever so slightly merry at the

00:01:23   beach, one of the reasons is because I was trying to get the pain to go away because

00:01:28   either the day before or two days before I had a silly accident where I jumped off something

00:01:32   too high, had a bad landing.

00:01:34   Turns out after an MRI that I have indeed fractured a vertebrae in my lumbar spine,

00:01:40   which apparently the note says that now I am like medically 10% shorter, which I don't

00:01:45   fully understand what that means.

00:01:47   That seems like too much.

00:01:48   I assume that it must be like my spine is 10% smaller for the time being.

00:01:53   So that's fun.

00:01:54   Do your pants seem longer than they used to?

00:01:56   Like these were shorts and now they're jeans.

00:01:58   Yeah, it's weird.

00:01:59   I don't have to duck my head down anymore.

00:02:02   I don't really get what the 10% means.

00:02:04   It's one of those things where like, "Here's your report."

00:02:06   And it's like, "Here's a bunch of stuff I've never understood before."

00:02:10   But yeah, I'm dealing with a spinal injury.

00:02:15   I'm glad you are okay. I'm glad it's not more serious than it is.

00:02:18   It's a minor loss of anterior vertebral body height, so it's the height of my spine, basically.

00:02:26   Yeah.

00:02:27   But yeah, it's quite a thing.

00:02:29   Is it worth the rush that you felt?

00:02:31   No, if you see me in San Francisco when we're going to be there next week,

00:02:34   hug me gently, I guess, would be my request.

00:02:38   Well, we got that.

00:02:42   That's a good bit of follow-up, though, right?

00:02:44   It is.

00:02:44   Like, "Oh, follow up, I actually fractured my spine."

00:02:47   Just in one place. And there's no surgery or anything, right? You just have to take it easy.

00:02:52   12 weeks of recovery.

00:02:54   Okay.

00:02:54   Where I was told, and I quote, to avoid pain.

00:02:57   Like, in life?

00:03:01   That was the advice I was given.

00:03:03   Philosophical pain?

00:03:04   Yeah. When he explained it to the doctor, it made more sense, but I just liked the phrase,

00:03:07   because that was how he started it. But it's basically the idea of,

00:03:10   "If something hurts, stop doing it."

00:03:13   So you're off Twitter for 12 weeks?

00:03:15   Yeah, it's just a lot of things I can't do anymore.

00:03:17   But yeah, so there we go. That's where I am. 12 weeks of recovery, in theory.

00:03:22   Probably shouldn't be taking multiple transatlantic flights during that period of time,

00:03:27   but like, gotta be there for the people, man. Gotta be there for the people.

00:03:30   That's right. You're a podcaster of the people.

00:03:33   Spinal no spine.

00:03:34   I mean, you still have one. You're not...

00:03:37   It's not complete, though.

00:03:38   We're not pouring you into a bucket.

00:03:40   I don't know. Maybe I lost a tiny piece.

00:03:42   if you could turn it into a keychain or something.

00:03:44   - I don't want them to go in there and get it though.

00:03:46   Stay away. - I could do it.

00:03:48   - Yeah, okay.

00:03:49   - I got some tools. - I got the tools.

00:03:51   I got a very specific set of skills.

00:03:53   - Look, if you can upgrade the RAM in a Mac Mini,

00:03:54   you can basically do spinal surgery.

00:03:56   - Yeah, I mean, humans don't have RAM doors either.

00:03:59   - That's true. - If you think about it.

00:04:01   - That's all done.

00:04:03   We spoke about RSS last episode, I think,

00:04:06   and you were onto me about cleaning out

00:04:07   my RSS subscriptions, and I have done so.

00:04:10   I neglected to write down the number of subscriptions

00:04:14   I had before I started cleaning, so that's my bad.

00:04:17   But I got rid of a lot of duplicate stuff

00:04:19   like we talked about, and it is nicer.

00:04:21   It really is.

00:04:22   On the topic of RSS, though, I did

00:04:24   want to point out that Net News Wire, which

00:04:27   is a name that should be familiar to a lot

00:04:29   of our listeners-- it was an RSS reader for the Mac

00:04:31   for a long, long time.

00:04:32   And iOS.

00:04:33   And iOS, yes.

00:04:34   I forget about the iOS version because it wasn't very good.

00:04:37   But it is been sold a couple times anyways, it is now back in the hands of Brent Simmons

00:04:43   who created it.

00:04:45   And he is working on net newswire version five, there's a public beta, I have that link

00:04:50   in the show notes.

00:04:51   I've been running it on my Mac for a while now.

00:04:53   And it's definitely a beta like there's some customization, like particularly font size

00:04:57   customization that I really wish was there.

00:05:00   That's not there yet.

00:05:01   But it's really nice.

00:05:02   And it is fast and lightweight.

00:05:05   And it doesn't crash like reader does in the background.

00:05:07   So I'm enjoying it.

00:05:08   So if you are using Feedbin, you can check this out on the Mac.

00:05:13   That is the only syncing engine that it hooks up

00:05:15   to at the moment.

00:05:16   You can also just have local accounts

00:05:18   if you're not doing RSS anywhere else.

00:05:20   But if you're a Feedbin customer like I am,

00:05:21   you can plug into that.

00:05:23   That feels very artisanal to not have your RSS service syncing.

00:05:29   Yeah, it does, right?

00:05:31   Right.

00:05:31   I only believe in RSS on this one machine.

00:05:35   and I don't want my subscriptions

00:05:36   to go anywhere else.

00:05:37   That feels very like hipster RSS.

00:05:40   - It does.

00:05:41   And he has said that there are plans to add more services,

00:05:44   but it's a beta and Feedbin apparently

00:05:46   was the one that got done first.

00:05:47   - Is that probably the most popular Feedbin?

00:05:50   - Feedly, I think, is the most popular.

00:05:51   Looking at the stats for 512 pixels,

00:05:53   Feedly by far is the most popular.

00:05:56   But I think Feedbin is kind of popular

00:05:59   amongst our circles maybe, 'cause it's really simple.

00:06:02   It's like, you pay for it.

00:06:04   Feedly is free, but a lot of people don't like the way their apps work or the way they

00:06:08   do things.

00:06:09   I don't remember the crazy one that I'm on.

00:06:11   What am I on?

00:06:12   I Know Reader or something?

00:06:13   I Know Reader.

00:06:14   Yeah, that's like the Federico for a T-shirt version.

00:06:16   And it has a lot of what is effectively server-side rules you can do with it, right?

00:06:20   Where you can set up none of that.

00:06:23   Absolutely zero of it.

00:06:24   I just signed up for it because it was what Federico told me to sign up for.

00:06:28   The Content Reader for Power Users Who Want to Save Time.

00:06:32   That's their time.

00:06:33   that does describe you.

00:06:34   - I am a PAL user and I do want to save time, so.

00:06:37   - We have one, I don't know, I put it in followup

00:06:40   'cause there really wasn't a place for it,

00:06:42   but I wanna talk about the MacBook Pros

00:06:44   that we spoke about weeks ago

00:06:45   that were being recalled for battery failures.

00:06:48   It is the 15-inch, late 2015,

00:06:50   so like the last one before

00:06:52   the USB-C Thunderbolt touch bar revolution.

00:06:55   A great laptop, Marco and I have both praised it,

00:06:59   we've both used it on and off over the years.

00:07:02   And they have this big deal where like the batteries are catching fire.

00:07:06   Apple has some like really strong language about that.

00:07:09   If you own one of these machines, please look at the link in the show notes and

00:07:15   check your serial number and make sure that you are not in, in this list where

00:07:20   you need to have your MacBook pro serviced.

00:07:22   I'd heard from a couple of people who are sort of still in like Mac service.

00:07:26   Roles and to get these repaired.

00:07:28   It takes a while because they're not shipping them via air.

00:07:31   they're being shipped by truck because they don't want to put these on airplanes because some of these batteries are

00:07:37   you know dangerous and turns out that that has caught up to to the MacBook Pro the FAA has

00:07:45   announced that these machines are not

00:07:48   Allowable on flights anymore

00:07:52   following in the footsteps of the note 7 and I have a lot of questions about this like how

00:07:57   How are airline safety regulators and staff going to know that you have a 2015 and not a 2013 or 14 to look the same or

00:08:06   If your serial number is in the batch or if it's not I don't know

00:08:10   I have a lot of questions about the nuts and bolts of this. That's the thing is like, okay

00:08:14   Well, what if you got it fixed? How do you prove that? Yeah, I don't know, right

00:08:21   Like if you had this laptop and you went through the recall program

00:08:26   How do you show the air flight?

00:08:28   Agent or whatever. What are they called flight attendant that you have a fixed laptop? It's a good question

00:08:36   Maybe yeah, you get a little like sticker with it. That's a little airplane on it with a thumbs up emoji

00:08:41   So I have a terrible thing. I have a terrible admission to make for you now worse than breaking your back. Yeah

00:08:49   When I was looking at this article, I was like, I think we have one of these computers

00:08:55   And I hadn't thought to get it checked. I don't know if Adina has a 15 or a 13. I don't

00:09:02   remember. So I just sent her a text message and I was like, "Oh, you should check this."

00:09:07   Right? And then she said, "Oh my god, is that why it gets so hot?" So that's what's going

00:09:11   on. That's what's going on in my life. We are not taking it with us on the plane. But

00:09:16   I don't know if it's the 13 or the 15 that she has, but irrespective, that computer gets

00:09:21   hot apparently. So that's good to know.

00:09:22   Only the 15th blow up.

00:09:24   So that's good.

00:09:25   But did the 13 need to be recalled as well?

00:09:28   I don't think so.

00:09:29   It's probably just a lot.

00:09:31   That's good news.

00:09:32   Bloomberg, man, they got the picture of the right laptop and everything.

00:09:35   Good job.

00:09:36   Congratulations, everybody.

00:09:38   It is August and we have a couple of just reminders.

00:09:43   One today is Wednesday, August 14.

00:09:45   There is one day left to pick up a relay FM fifth anniversary t shirt.

00:09:51   you're listening to this on August 16, it is too late and it is gone forever. And I'm sorry. So

00:09:57   there may be some pins still available that we have a small selection of pins still available.

00:10:01   Yes. There will be pins left. Those will just sell until they're sold out. But the shirts are

00:10:07   like a pre order so they get printed stuff. So if you haven't gotten one of these, now's the time.

00:10:10   I will say I have some of the enamel pins here and they are really cool. And I'm really excited

00:10:17   to see the shirts when they ship in a few weeks. Secondly, Relay FM membership

00:10:23   month is August, kind of bleeds into September too, you know mid-August to

00:10:27   mid-September. Yeah. And this is the time of year where we talk about the

00:10:31   membership program here at Relay FM. It goes on year-round, there are perks

00:10:35   year-round, so we send a behind-the-scenes newsletter each month,

00:10:37   and we have a Relay FM members only podcast that I host where I pull hosts

00:10:45   from different shows and we talk about something. Sometimes I interview a host

00:10:48   about something they've done and that's really cool. I really enjoy doing that

00:10:51   show and that is a member perk. You can learn more about membership at relay.fm/membership

00:10:58   or if you go to relay.fm/connected you can support this show with just a

00:11:02   couple of clicks. But the big perk happens in August and September where we

00:11:06   release members only bonus episodes of every show. Some shows team up and do

00:11:12   things. Some shows do it solo, so like for instance on Liftoff, Jason and I are going to be watching

00:11:18   the movie Armageddon, which is going to be a real adventure, and we're going to talk about that.

00:11:22   Myke, you, Gray, and Jason have completed another text adventure.

00:11:27   It's going to be out on Friday.

00:11:29   I've heard it. I think it's the best one yet. I love it so much.

00:11:33   Thank you. Thank you very much.

00:11:34   So go check that out. We would love your support. If you are a Relay F a member of,

00:11:38   whether it's this show or any other show, thank you for your support. It really means the world

00:11:42   to us. Yeah, thank you very much. All right, this is our annual relay FM q&a episode. So

00:11:49   every August, Myke, you and I take questions and we answer them. We've done it on video,

00:11:53   we've done it connected. So we're doing it connected this year. And we're gonna get into

00:11:57   that. But first, I want to tell you about our first sponsor, if that's okay, I would

00:12:00   love it. This episode is brought to you by pingdom, the company that makes website performance

00:12:06   and monitoring really easy. Everyone loves a fast website and pingdom is helping keep

00:12:11   your favorite sites online. Netflix, Amazon, Spotify, Twitter, BuzzFeed, Slack,

00:12:16   Relay.fm. These are just a few of the websites services that trust Pingdom to

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00:12:40   And if disaster strikes, you'll be the first to know.

00:12:42   You can set up how Pingdom will notify you.

00:12:44   So like I said, we use this on Relay FM.

00:12:47   So I get a text message and a push notification

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00:12:59   It's super easy to get started.

00:13:00   All Pingdom needs is your URL

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00:13:19   My thanks to Pingdom for their support of this show

00:13:21   and Relay FM.

00:13:23   - So we have over the last couple of weeks

00:13:25   been asking for our listeners to send us in questions

00:13:28   under the hashtag RelayQA,

00:13:30   and we have lots of wonderful questions

00:13:32   that we're gonna go through today.

00:13:35   The first comes from Kate.

00:13:36   Kate asks, "Since the last Q&A, is there anything in particular that has happened in relation

00:13:41   to the company or otherwise that you hadn't previously thought could be possible?"

00:13:46   What do you think?

00:13:47   I think the frequency of live shows and the success of them that we have, especially maybe

00:13:55   over the last six months or so, kind of starting with our tour, right, that was in October.

00:14:02   Considering we didn't do any live shows the year prior, we did our live show in June,

00:14:12   which was one of the bigger ones that we'd done ever.

00:14:16   Actually, it was the biggest we'd done ever at The Hammer at WWDC.

00:14:20   And then we enjoyed that so much that we went on tour in October and we did a bunch of shows

00:14:26   in a bunch of cities and have kind of since then been doing more and more of them and

00:14:32   I mean we're doing another two next week, right?

00:14:36   Back to back.

00:14:37   Back to back. That's going to be a new experience. We're going to be doing our big live show

00:14:41   Thursday, Penn Addict Live on Friday. But like just the way that we, well, the way that

00:14:47   you have kind of, you know, you're the kind of the driving force behind the live shows,

00:14:52   But the way that we've been able to have these things come together and be more frequent

00:14:57   and be successful has been a surprise to me.

00:15:02   It's not a lot, but we're not losing money on live shows anymore, which we had been previously.

00:15:06   Yes, the first several were at a loss.

00:15:11   I think that's a good answer.

00:15:12   I think looking back over the last 12 months, that's what comes to mind for me as well.

00:15:17   that we've done. We did WBC like you said we did Chicago, New York, Toronto on that

00:15:23   tour. Mac power users had has had two live shows. And we did WBC again, and now this.

00:15:30   And I think to say that like the company does like a yearly theme do thing was like you

00:15:34   guys talk a lot about in cortex, but I don't know if relay does that as a company, but

00:15:38   if there would have been one for the last 12 months, it would have been like, live shows

00:15:42   It was like getting us out into the world.

00:15:45   We wanna do more of them.

00:15:47   I'm already sort of having some ideas put together

00:15:49   for early 2020, and it'll be something that we continue

00:15:52   because it's so great to do what we do with an audience,

00:15:56   hang out with people, and I really love it.

00:15:59   And we're at a point now,

00:16:01   this big thing, I'm just gonna show Excluded

00:16:03   'cause it's so bonkers.

00:16:06   Like, we've kinda gotten to a rhythm of how they work,

00:16:08   like what we need to do, the equipment's all dialed in.

00:16:10   So some of the stress of making it happen

00:16:13   has faded over time, and it means that I think

00:16:16   we're more willing to do them more often.

00:16:19   - And because people will ask me,

00:16:21   I would love to do a show in London at some point,

00:16:23   and we will, I just don't know when.

00:16:26   But it's something that I really want to do,

00:16:29   but it's just something that is more difficult,

00:16:33   because it's all dependent on what show is it gonna be.

00:16:36   - Yeah, well, I'll say here,

00:16:38   if we wanna do a connection in London,

00:16:39   Fedrick is pretty close. You know, I can come over. Yeah. Something.

00:16:43   What is something? Yeah. I would like to do that very much,

00:16:46   but it's just a case of the logistics of that. Yes. Are significant.

00:16:51   Yes. That's a big deal.

00:16:52   So, so like it's the thing that we would really love to do,

00:16:56   but it's just about when, but it is something that we will do maybe over the next

00:17:00   12 months. Right. Like maybe sometime in 2020, hopefully if we can find a reason,

00:17:04   I don't know, but like, it would be a wonderful thing to do. We,

00:17:08   we do really want to do it so it's just a case of working it out.

00:17:11   uh Scott asked where did the idea for Relay come from what got the ball rolling?

00:17:15   I guess it depends what Scott is like actually asking but like my the way I am interpreting this

00:17:21   is like why did you start the company um and I guess it was just a case of wow we'd both been

00:17:27   doing this stuff for a long time like I started in 2010 you started not too long after that and

00:17:34   we'd moved through various things, right? Like setting up a very kind of small duct tape

00:17:40   together network, which we moved over to 5x5 and then it kind of just got to the point where

00:17:47   I felt like I had achieved everything I wanted to achieve but didn't have the outcome that I

00:17:52   was looking for, which was for podcasting to be my full-time career, right? Like I feel like I'd

00:17:57   achieved everything I wanted but didn't have the outcome. So then I was like, okay, well then I

00:18:03   I need to start again, I guess is probably the best way to think of it.

00:18:07   And for me, starting again was doing it on my own and like in my own way and all

00:18:12   that kind of stuff. And I shared that with you.

00:18:15   And when I shared that with you, you were kind of like, oh, me too.

00:18:17   So, so we just did it.

00:18:19   Here we are.

00:18:20   Yeah. And then it was just a case of like working out, like, this is everything that

00:18:26   we know, this is everything that we've learned and these are the ways that we

00:18:28   would want to do it. And when we did it that way and when we own the business,

00:18:33   and could profit the way that a business does,

00:18:36   it made more sense for us.

00:18:38   And the next question actually leads into the rest

00:18:41   of what I'm about to say.

00:18:42   So I will hold on that on a minute.

00:18:44   But that was why it was just a case of like,

00:18:47   create being like creatively itchy feet, right?

00:18:51   Which is like, do you familiar with that phrase?

00:18:53   - Sure.

00:18:54   - So like, we know we just wanted to do something new

00:18:56   and wanted to do something different.

00:18:57   And I also felt like I had other challenges

00:19:01   that I needed to face because everything that I'd done

00:19:04   to that point hadn't gotten me to my ultimate goal.

00:19:08   - Yeah, I think that's well said.

00:19:09   For me, when we started this, you were further down the road

00:19:13   into wanting to do this for a living.

00:19:16   And again, this goes into the second question here

00:19:19   in a second, but very quickly it became clear to me

00:19:24   that if this company were successful,

00:19:26   we could both do it full time.

00:19:29   And for me, at least, that wasn't my goal

00:19:32   in starting the company.

00:19:33   Like I admit that my vision of it at the beginning was,

00:19:37   hey, you know what, we can make some pretty decent

00:19:39   side money and we'll have a place to do our own thing.

00:19:42   And I definitely didn't foresee

00:19:44   where it is now five years later.

00:19:46   - I mean, even, but then though,

00:19:48   when we started, it was a dream.

00:19:50   It wasn't like an inevitability.

00:19:52   - Definitely.

00:19:53   - Right, so it did feel like, okay,

00:19:55   we could maybe build something different

00:19:59   and earn some good side money.

00:20:00   But, and then hopefully one day turn it into

00:20:04   what we do for a living.

00:20:05   But that hopefully came quicker than we imagined, I think.

00:20:09   - Yep, so this is Aaron's question,

00:20:11   perfectly suited for where we're going.

00:20:14   When y'all decided to go full time,

00:20:16   being full time in the company, were you profitable?

00:20:18   How many shows did you have at that point?

00:20:21   And before going full time, how many hours were you putting

00:20:24   in a week to podcasting and Relay FM?

00:20:26   So your story is pretty well known.

00:20:29   You went full time in relay much sooner

00:20:32   than I anticipated, but it worked out.

00:20:37   - Yeah, I mean, what was it like a month

00:20:39   after we started that I quit?

00:20:42   Like, I don't think it was long.

00:20:43   - It was not long.

00:20:44   - It feels like kind of about that time.

00:20:48   I'll find the episode, like the best telling

00:20:51   of these stories, like this particular story is on analog.

00:20:56   Oh, I quit in October. Yeah, I quit in October. So we'd been around for a couple of months.

00:21:02   So we launched in the middle of August and then in the middle of October, I quit my day job.

00:21:08   At that point, the company was profitable. That was why I did it. Like, it was...

00:21:15   We were able to be profitable in that sense quickly because we didn't have a lot of overhead.

00:21:21   Right? Like a company like ours that only exists on the internet doesn't have a lot of

00:21:26   of overhead. So provided that we could get advertising, which we did from the start because

00:21:31   we both built contacts by that point, we were able to be profitable. Like the first thing

00:21:37   that had to happen was we repaid the money that both me and you invested. And we kind

00:21:43   of did that up until I guess October or whatever. And then once we were set, it was like, all

00:21:48   right. It was just a case of I had a bunch of stuff happened to me, but really it was

00:21:52   like I could see what our bookings were and I knew that I could at least last three months.

00:21:58   And so then it was at that point it was like well let's just try it like I might as well

00:22:02   just try it now because we can get there. So that was it. We were still at our original

00:22:08   no we'd grown in shows then I think we had like six or seven shows at that point.

00:22:13   Upgrade and Clockwise had definitely come over at that point.

00:22:15   Yeah Rocket too I think.

00:22:17   It's right in there somewhere.

00:22:18   around that sort of time. So we had started to grow a little bit. Again, that was much

00:22:24   faster than expected. Jason joining was a big shock to all of us in a good way, but

00:22:32   that was a big surprise. We weren't expecting to have started any new shows by that point.

00:22:40   So Rocket was in January, so it was a little bit later, but I think that was the next show

00:22:45   after Jason's two shows. So we'd started to grow and things were looking up, right?

00:22:53   And so then it was, I think it was like, "Okay, this is becoming much more of a thing than

00:22:58   we'd anticipated, a little bit faster than we anticipated." But your story is very different

00:23:02   though.

00:23:03   It is. So I went full-time almost a year into the company. We were in very different stages

00:23:10   of the life of the time. I had three kids. In fact, my third was born the month after

00:23:15   we launched Relay. It's like, I'd taken a bunch of my own money, poured it in this company,

00:23:19   like, "Oh, we're going to have a baby in a month." It was chaotic in hindsight.

00:23:25   So I had a job that I really liked at a company I liked doing work that I enjoyed. And because

00:23:32   we had three kids, my wife worked only part-time, my bar to make the jump was higher than yours

00:23:39   was at that point.

00:23:41   And I could have done it earlier.

00:23:44   For me, there was probably three to four or five months or something where the money made

00:23:50   sense to do it, but I was hesitant to do it.

00:23:53   And I've told this story before, but basically Jason Snell and David Sparks ganged up on

00:23:58   me at WWDC and said, "Look, you need to quit your job.

00:24:02   You need to do relay."

00:24:04   And they were right.

00:24:06   I went I came home and quit my job and I was hesitant to though, right if you remember

00:24:12   Right, like when we were talking about it

00:24:14   Like I had a hesitancy of you Quentin because I was scared about

00:24:18   Because I do the lion's share or at least at that time did the lion's share of the advertising work

00:24:24   Which was where all of our money was coming from at that point. Yeah, I was really worried about

00:24:29   Being responsible for putting food on your family's table

00:24:33   Like that was like a big big like thing that I was really scared about

00:24:37   But again, it was just like a case of like I was able to get over that quicker

00:24:42   Then you were able to make your decision

00:24:45   but like I remember when we were originally talking about it like that was like a real just like a real like

00:24:49   Nervousness that I had because at that point the only person being supported full-time by relay was me

00:24:57   everybody else wasn't and there is like I think now we're at the case where there are more people who have large parts of their income

00:25:05   from our company and that kind of spreading of it feels more natural and it doesn't really concern me anymore because we

00:25:13   Feel not because I'm a monster because I feel like we're pretty we're pretty solid

00:25:17   There is like a case of like we would know very far in advance now if someone was gonna have a problem. Yeah

00:25:25   Right. Yep. So the way that way things work just to round up Aaron's question before going full-time

00:25:31   How many hours were you putting in a week? I don't know. It was a lot

00:25:34   I mean I was working 40 hours a week at a job and then

00:25:37   Probably working another 15 hours a week easily on

00:25:41   Relay stuff, you know in the evenings and weekends and I was actually thinking about this

00:25:46   I'm probably putting in the same amount of hours, right?

00:25:49   Like I genuinely think that like the amount of hours I'm putting in now was the same

00:25:53   I was putting in then but I was also working a job at the same time because now I have a much better work-life balance

00:25:58   But then it was like I mean, I'm doing about the same amount of shows

00:26:02   Right and I do less editing now than I used to and stuff like that

00:26:07   while still doing the business management and we now have

00:26:10   People we've hired to take jobs away from as well

00:26:13   Like I reckon I'm probably doing about that because I was effectively working two full-time jobs, right?

00:26:19   I would come home at 6 and I'd be done at 1

00:26:22   Like that was kind of my my life at the time. So I probably don't don't do any

00:26:29   more or less hours than I used to, which is horrifying to think about, but I'm

00:26:36   happy that I made that sacrifice in my life because now I have the life I want.

00:26:39   It's a difficult thing to do, it's a difficult thing for most people, and I

00:26:43   was just at the stage in my life where I could do it, and I consider myself very

00:26:46   fortunate that I was in that part. Mm-hmm. I'm reading the show notes for

00:26:51   upgrade episode one which is September 2014. I've forgotten this it was Jason's

00:26:58   review of the iPhone 6 and 6 plus that feels so long ago. I was when that when

00:27:04   episode one launched I was in a hotel room in Italy because it was we weren't

00:27:10   we weren't planning on doing the first episode then it was but Jason had an

00:27:15   iPhone so wouldn't it be great to have the first episode go up and it went up

00:27:20   on the embargo time of the iPhone 6. So it's like, well, this is the perfect way to launch

00:27:26   the show. But like I had the, there were funny things like the intro music. I didn't hear

00:27:31   it until the episode went up. I'd never heard the song. Just like little stuff like that.

00:27:37   All right, back to Kate. There's a lot of Kate questions.

00:27:40   Kate had lots of great questions. There's going to be a lot of Kate questions.

00:27:43   #KateQA. Is this where you expected to be on your fifth anniversary? How is it different

00:27:49   to your initial ideas of the company.

00:27:51   I think I said a second ago,

00:27:54   I could never have predicted the level

00:27:57   which would be operating now, both in the number of shows,

00:28:00   but in the amazing people we work with.

00:28:02   And that's really what I come back to with this.

00:28:04   If you had told me five years ago,

00:28:06   I would get to work with the people we get to work with,

00:28:09   many of whom I knew and looked up to,

00:28:11   and many who I didn't know, but now look up to now

00:28:14   as I've gotten to know them,

00:28:16   that's what humbles me the most,

00:28:17   is that there are so many amazing people that post shows on our network.

00:28:22   Without a doubt. Just personal heroes up and down, right? It's kind of a wild thing to be

00:28:29   in that position. And also because I am a guy, the financials are incredible too. I never thought

00:28:39   that we would be at the place that we are, right? The fact that we are able to both be supported

00:28:44   and we're able to help out so many other people with their like creative autonomy basically

00:28:50   is kind of wild like I don't there is there are so many things right that you could

00:28:56   basically if if if us of five years ago had access to our own website as it is now and our

00:29:05   spreadsheets we wouldn't believe any of it it would all seem like oh what you did was

00:29:11   create your dream version of what was going to happen and give it to me.

00:29:15   Because that is kind of where we are like this. We have,

00:29:18   I think exceeded at this point,

00:29:20   all of our wildest expectations for what this company could be. So,

00:29:24   you know,

00:29:26   I can't help but look back now and just be like,

00:29:29   and feel very grateful for it all.

00:29:32   Jackson asks, what has been something that you didn't expect to be difficult,

00:29:37   but was surprisingly so when running a podcast network?

00:29:40   The mental load of working with such a large group of people is a big one for me.

00:29:45   I carry around in my brain the desires, needs and requirements of all of our hosts constantly.

00:29:52   And that's just part of who I am as a person. That sort of stuff really weighs on my mind.

00:29:59   And I've had to do a lot over time to help me cope with that. But making sure that everybody is happy

00:30:09   and get what they need, that is a thing that like it really, it really weighs on me.

00:30:16   And I think it helps, right? Like I think it's a plus. I think we both have this, right? Like

00:30:21   I think our hosts like to work with us because they enjoy working with us and part of that is

00:30:26   because we care about them. So it's a big thing that I carry around and I don't think I would

00:30:32   have expected, especially because again, like I didn't think that we would have as many shows

00:30:36   and hosts as we have. So that's been a big thing for me.

00:30:39   Yeah, that's a good answer. I think something that comes to mind for me is the, as we've

00:30:44   grown, I find it difficult sometimes to hand things off to other people. Like you said,

00:30:49   we have a couple people helping us now internally with internal tasks, and you did that much

00:30:57   quicker than I did.

00:30:58   Because I was going to lose my mind otherwise. That was the problem.

00:31:01   And so that's been really good. That's been a very successful part of our business over the last couple years, having people come in and help.

00:31:10   The reason I was laughing just now is I am reminded of a call that me and you had a couple of months ago where I basically demanded that you do it.

00:31:17   Like that there was just tasks that you were doing that you didn't need to do anymore that we could pay somebody to do.

00:31:22   And you were very hesitant of it.

00:31:24   And I understand because it's within your nature to want to manage that stuff.

00:31:28   Yes, and you were right, and it's been amazing to have helped in certain things.

00:31:33   Yes.

00:31:33   And so that's something that I continue to look at and continue to make decisions about

00:31:38   what I need to do, what I can give to other people. And there will always be parts of

00:31:44   the work that are just my favorites, and there's other things that sort of fall to me naturally

00:31:49   with my skill set, but there are lots of other things that lots of people can help with. So

00:31:54   that has been something I've had to learn and it's been good, it's been really good,

00:31:58   but it was a lesson to learn. Here's a great question from Kate, this is for you Stephen,

00:32:04   you've had lots of show changes in the past year, you joined MacPower users, you had subnet,

00:32:09   query and download or retire, what are or were the different challenges of the shows, what have

00:32:14   you learned from them and what is going on with you? That's quite the body count when you list

00:32:18   I'm all out. So I joined Mac Power Users in January, but that move was in the works for some

00:32:25   time. When David asked me to join, it was a couple months before or whenever it was. And I knew then,

00:32:33   he and I talked about it, you and I talked about it, the three of us talked about it,

00:32:36   I talked to Katie about it, a lot of conversations to make sure this was the right decision.

00:32:40   I knew when I accepted the role of co-host on MPU, that it was going to require a lot of time

00:32:48   and energy from me. And I didn't have that in my schedule when I said yes. And so I looked at what

00:32:55   I was doing. And query in particular, I knew kind of right off the bat that it was probably time to

00:33:02   wind it down. The query and MPU are related in a way and query if you're not familiar with it,

00:33:07   you probably aren't it wasn't hugely successful. But it was a show where we sort of answered tech

00:33:11   questions from the audience. And it's straight into MPU territory quite often, as you would

00:33:15   imagine. And I knew that I didn't want to do two shows that were that alike. And looking at

00:33:22   The Raw Numbers, Quarry just wasn't that big of a show, and so it was kind of an easy decision to

00:33:27   let that go. It was hard because I hosted that show originally with Serendi Caldwell,

00:33:32   who is amazing. It was her idea, and I just kind of came on to help with it. And then she had a

00:33:39   career change, and I was joined by Micah, and I couldn't ask for two better co-hosts for that

00:33:43   show. I love both Serenity and Micah deeply. And that made it hard. And it made it hard to,

00:33:49   like, I called Serenity and was like, "I think I have to, like, the thing we created, I have to

00:33:52   move on from." And she was very supportive in that, as was Micah. He really understood it. So

00:33:57   that was important to me that we ended it correctly. Subnet was a little bit different.

00:34:02   Subnet was a daily show, five days a week we had for a long time. Most of that year, doing, like,

00:34:10   tech headlines, like quick tech headlines. A lot of people have

00:34:12   sent on their smart speakers. Daily is just hard. And I had

00:34:16   helped with it. Part of the way through where Jason took some

00:34:18   Micah took some, but it just got to a point where it was not a

00:34:23   lot of work, but it was work every day. And it was it kind of

00:34:27   felt like shackles on my to do list every day to do that show

00:34:31   at the end of the day. And, and I really wanted the the overhead

00:34:36   back from from those projects. And so by the time I joined MPU, subnet and query had been

00:34:43   marked as retired downloads a little bit different download is a show I did with Jason Stell. Again,

00:34:48   it was tech headlines, but in like a panel discussion format. I still believe in that

00:34:52   idea of a show. But it's kind of got to a point where Jason and I couldn't put into it what we

00:34:58   needed to and we thought about doing a host change. That's really tricky. We kind of decided

00:35:03   that at least for now that idea is sort of had its run. I still believe in that show format. I

00:35:10   still want a show like that on Relay FM, but it was kind of clear that download wasn't quite

00:35:15   what we wanted it to be. And I'm very proud of that show as well. Jason and I, I think we did

00:35:21   a really good job, just to speak candidly, with the the panel members that we had. That we had

00:35:29   lots of diverse voices on that show.

00:35:31   And that was really important to us.

00:35:33   And it was important to talk with people

00:35:35   who were experts in their field

00:35:36   and talk to people who really know their stuff.

00:35:39   And it was a lot of fun to get to know a lot of people

00:35:41   through downloads, a lot of friends of mine now

00:35:43   that I've met in this industry,

00:35:44   because they were download guests

00:35:45   and that was our first interaction.

00:35:47   So something like that, I think,

00:35:49   could come back at some point.

00:35:50   But those were kind of the challenge of the shows

00:35:53   and why we wound them down.

00:35:55   MPU has been extremely rewarding.

00:35:58   The audience of MPU is fantastic.

00:36:01   They are extremely engaged, extremely involved in the show,

00:36:06   and they've really welcomed me with open arms.

00:36:10   You know, it's a big change to change a host

00:36:12   after nine years, and I went into it knowing that,

00:36:16   and knowing that I had to prove that I was,

00:36:19   you know, that David had made the right choice,

00:36:21   and I think now, nine months into it or whatever,

00:36:25   that it's gone really well, and the show is healthy,

00:36:27   and the audience is just as engaged as they were before.

00:36:30   So I think we've transitioned smoothly.

00:36:33   And for anyone who listens to MPU,

00:36:35   I appreciate you taking a chance on me

00:36:40   knowing that it does change the show fundamentally.

00:36:43   But I think it's doing really well.

00:36:46   - A change show is not a bad show.

00:36:48   It's just changed.

00:36:49   - Just changed.

00:36:50   - I wanna say a little bit about Subnet and Download.

00:36:53   - Okay.

00:36:54   - They were both experiments.

00:36:57   Subnet was an experiment in working on a completely different format to be

00:37:02   delivered via a different medium, which is to be like Echos and Google Homes and

00:37:07   stuff like that. And that was a project that we started when we were approached

00:37:12   by Anchor to kind of see if we wanted to make content like that. And we tried it

00:37:18   and ultimately realized that that experiment was never going to lead

00:37:21   anywhere that we were really that happy with under that kind of guise, right?

00:37:25   Like, it was a time sink for you and I could never work out how we would make money on

00:37:31   it.

00:37:32   And at that point it seemed like, okay, this isn't right for now.

00:37:37   Later on this might be a thing that we can work out, but it wasn't a good use of your

00:37:41   time and so maybe there's something else that we could do in the future with it.

00:37:45   And download was an experiment in like, and we've got questions about this later so again

00:37:50   I won't say too much about it right now, but like can we push out into wider technology?

00:37:55   And the answer was yes, but we couldn't break it to the level that you and Jason wanted,

00:38:01   right?

00:38:02   The show was very successful, but it wasn't as successful as our Apple-focused shows.

00:38:09   So it got to the point where you both wanted to focus on things that were better for you.

00:38:16   So they were both experiments and they were successful to a point, but neither of them

00:38:21   got to where we wanted to be.

00:38:23   And I think as a company, we're trying to be a little bit more focused on that, right?

00:38:28   Like we can take some risks, but if they're not going to work, then we've got to be willing

00:38:32   to let them go.

00:38:35   Is that fair to say?

00:38:36   I know that your shows, I don't want to speak for you, but yeah, no, no, it is.

00:38:40   And I think that download may have been more successful in our goal of breaking past Apple

00:38:45   if Jason had been paired with somebody who wasn't so Apple centric as I am.

00:38:49   And like that was just a staffing issue.

00:38:51   that that may have hurt it. But it was also interesting to doing some that download at

00:38:56   the same time was actually great because to prep for download, like I was already doing the work

00:39:01   every day with subnet looking for the three tech hons of the day. So with download picking the four

00:39:04   for the week is like here already 12 like let's just pick out of here what seems to be the most

00:39:09   important. So they were very influential on each other. And when subnet ended download kept going

00:39:15   for another six months. I felt that difference was like, oh, like, I didn't realize how much heavy

00:39:19   lifting subnet was doing for download, just like an interesting thing behind the scenes. But yeah,

00:39:25   we you know, experimented with it, it didn't pan out. That doesn't mean it was a bad idea. It just

00:39:29   means that that specific execution didn't do quite what we wanted it to do. Alright, we have

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00:41:20   All right, so the next question comes from Kate.

00:41:23   Kate wants to know, what is your favorite new thing,

00:41:25   work-related or otherwise, that you

00:41:27   have started doing this year?

00:41:29   Oh, man.

00:41:30   I kind of want to answer otherwise.

00:41:32   We're talking a lot about work.

00:41:33   You should answer.

00:41:34   Otherwise was in that, so you should answer otherwise.

00:41:36   So I'm going to answer otherwise.

00:41:38   I have gotten into fishing again this year.

00:41:41   So I did that as a kid, and I've been doing more of it.

00:41:44   My daughter enjoys it.

00:41:45   My dad enjoys it.

00:41:47   We've been several times.

00:41:49   And it's really nice to not be on the internet

00:41:52   and go do something outside.

00:41:54   And so that is an otherwise thing for me.

00:41:57   As far as work, look, I'm having a ball on Mac Power Users.

00:42:02   It's working with David Sparks is a dream come true.

00:42:05   Working with that audience is amazing.

00:42:07   I love that I can get super nerdy about the Finder

00:42:08   and Federico isn't rolling his eyes like he does here.

00:42:12   So MPU has just been like seriously bucket list type stuff

00:42:15   as far as work.

00:42:16   - I can't really think of anything I'm doing personally.

00:42:20   I mean I have other work related projects,

00:42:22   like getting into product manufacturing

00:42:25   has been pretty interesting for me

00:42:26   and it's something I wanna keep working on.

00:42:28   But my kind of work thing is this year

00:42:33   started to hand over editing projects to the very wonderful and talented Jim

00:42:38   Metzendorf who helps us out with a selection of shows and having somebody

00:42:43   who I trust edit some shows for me instead of me doing them has been like a

00:42:48   really nice thing. It's been great for the regular shows that I have that I've

00:42:52   handed to Jim but it's also really great when like I have a particularly

00:42:56   difficult edit that I haven't got time to do for whatever reason I can just ask

00:43:01   gym to do it for me and he'll do it and that's been like given me a lot of

00:43:07   stress relief and freedom and time back so that's been one of my favorite work

00:43:12   things that I've done for myself this year rather than like making things

00:43:16   better for everybody else it's like it was just like a thing for me to help my

00:43:18   working life yeah right but like there are things that we always try and do in

00:43:22   the company to make things better but like this is for me for my own work

00:43:25   right which is making the shows so that's been like a really wonderful

00:43:29   thing for me. It's been good and I can see the change in your work with Jim

00:43:36   taking over more of your editing. So yeah because you get you get the invoice so

00:43:41   you just see me like that dude I do literally see the change. No it's great and

00:43:49   I've used him for a few things and he's gonna do the connected game show which

00:43:53   I've apologized to him in advance of how crazy that's gonna be. So mm-hmm trust Jim

00:43:58   with it. It's the best. Kyle wants to know what is your favorite non relay podcast? It's

00:44:05   either wonderful by Griffin and Rachel McElroy or Dubai Friday. I will I will second Dubai Friday.

00:44:13   I'm also really enjoying app stories that John and Federico do that it's kind of partially behind the

00:44:20   scenes at Mac stories, partially interviews topic stuff, but they do it sort of in a Mac stories way

00:44:26   and I don't miss an episode.

00:44:29   I was trying to scroll through my overcast

00:44:32   to find something that is not tech-ish.

00:44:35   One that's half tech, half creative stuff

00:44:38   is the Stallman podcast by our friend Tyler Stallman.

00:44:40   He does interviews with creators and talks about tech,

00:44:43   and even if I'm not super into the world

00:44:47   that he's talking about, he does such a good job

00:44:50   explaining things and getting good stuff out of people

00:44:53   interviews that you know you have not I'm not really trying to choose between

00:44:56   Final Cut and Premiere but I'll listen to an hour of him talking to people

00:44:59   about it because it's he makes it so interesting. Yeah he's also very talented.

00:45:03   I have been trying to listen to less technology shows obviously I love them

00:45:09   but because I make them I'm trying to have less like input of it so I feel

00:45:17   like my thoughts can be more organically generated from me than listening to other people and

00:45:24   then feel like I'm repeating what they're saying or like hesitating from saying something

00:45:30   or talking about something because I'm concerned that all this is just like what I heard on

00:45:34   such and such show. I don't want to be kind of like restricted like that. So I do listen

00:45:41   to a couple of the big tech shows. I mean, if you're thinking about it, I'm probably

00:45:45   into it, but the shows that I'm adding into my life, I'm trying to make them more entertainment

00:45:51   than technology.

00:45:52   Yeah, I think that's, I think that can be wise.

00:45:55   And I go through periods where I don't listen to many tech podcasts at all, or just don't

00:45:59   listen to many podcasts.

00:46:00   You know, I sort of have seasons where I back off, but it's, there's so much good stuff

00:46:06   out there, right?

00:46:07   Like we could name a ton of podcasts and just this would go on forever.

00:46:10   So we should move on.

00:46:12   So Kevin asks, how do you battle possible fatigue covering Apple News on multiple shows?

00:46:17   I imagine it must be tough to find your own take multiple times a week.

00:46:21   I think you should answer this because you have two new shows you have upgraded connected

00:46:25   while very different.

00:46:26   There's a lot of topic overlap.

00:46:27   So this this I toss this to you.

00:46:31   I work very, very, very hard on this.

00:46:34   I try as good, like I try as hard as possible to not have overlap.

00:46:41   So there will be a lot of times where like you might say,

00:46:45   should we talk about this on connected? And I'm like,

00:46:48   I don't want to talk about it cause I've just spoke about it like for 45 minutes

00:46:50   on upgrade and like, and I just don't want to repeat myself.

00:46:53   So like we try and work on other topics or if we are going to cover something,

00:46:58   I typically, you probably don't even notice this,

00:47:01   but like if there's a topic that was on upgrade and connected,

00:47:04   I either A) don't say much about it on connected because I've already said

00:47:09   everything or B) there are times where I have kept specific things for the other

00:47:15   show so like I have thoughts for one show and thoughts for another show so

00:47:19   I'm not repeating myself constantly right like that is like a big thing that

00:47:23   I try and do because I don't want to do that I don't want to do it for me let

00:47:27   alone for the listener like I don't want to just keep saying the same things over

00:47:30   over and over again. So I try to keep a split between the two of them because I think it's

00:47:35   very possible to do it. There is enough topics most weeks that it can be done that way. And

00:47:40   I try not to repeat myself. So that's how. And to be honest, I think that I do a pretty

00:47:46   good job about it because I never get complaints about it. I feel like the only times people

00:47:50   ever do complain about it to me, at least what I've seen, I don't know if those people

00:47:54   listen to the shows like they just see that I do two shows that are focused on Apple News.

00:47:58   But yeah, that's kind of my thing and like there are things over time that have naturally become

00:48:05   the beat of one show or the other. Right. Right. So like, for example, I started talking about

00:48:11   folding phones on upgrade. And I don't really think Jason cared too much about me to give him

00:48:16   my Samsung Galaxy Fold update every week. So it came here. So it came here because you guys were

00:48:21   more interested in me talking about it. Sure, if that's what you think is happening, that's fine.

00:48:26   Yeah, exactly. Or at least you will be more willing to just let me do it. I don't know.

00:48:30   But like, there are things that over time have just settled into each show, dependent on like

00:48:37   the overlapping interests. Like for example, upstream. Talking about streaming services and

00:48:43   the content is way more a me and Jason thing than it would be with you two, right? Because I don't

00:48:49   think that you two care about the inner workings of NBC too much but me and Jason seem to really

00:48:53   care about it because Jason cares about the entertainment. I really am just fascinated in

00:48:58   the way that businesses work so that's why that works. So like you know each show has its own

00:49:03   things on the face of it they seem like they would be the same but they're actually not at all.

00:49:09   Yep I think that's a good answer. I have no complaints.

00:49:12   Dr. Geek asks do you feel that Relay is too Apple centric rather than technology as a whole?

00:49:17   I would say there's always room to add non Apple tech stuff like we did with download.

00:49:22   There are a couple of things though, if you look at the wider like tech podcasting scene,

00:49:28   it is a lot of Apple centric stuff. Of course, we have material that covers Google and Android.

00:49:33   But like, you'd be hard pressed to find a really successful or a handful of successful shows,

00:49:40   covering like Microsoft and Windows or covering Amazon and its products. So I don't think there's

00:49:46   really room for like a Windows focused PC focused show. But I think there there is always room to go

00:49:52   a little bit broader. For us. We started is sort of in this area covering Apple is most of the

00:49:59   people we work with cover Apple. And I feel like we've done a good job at diversifying the types

00:50:06   of shows that cover this stuff. And you know, things like upgrade, which you know, also cover

00:50:09   media streaming, like you said, adding things to it organically. But it hasn't been a problem. And

00:50:15   And in fact, there are strengths to it that sponsors who have products or services that

00:50:23   integrate into the Apple ecosystem, or they want Apple's customers to be their customers,

00:50:28   you know, we are in a good position as far as that's concerned.

00:50:30   So it hasn't ever really, I don't think it's ever really a problem.

00:50:34   And I don't think Apple's gonna go out of business anytime soon.

00:50:37   So I think we're okay there too.

00:50:39   I don't think it's an issue.

00:50:41   Like, I don't think really FM needs to be all things to all people.

00:50:45   it's just not a thing that we need to do, right? We do have an audience focus, that's

00:50:51   kind of where we fit, and that's just kind of where we are. We have a lot of shows that

00:50:57   are not about Appleton. Honestly, if you look at our roster today, our roster of shows,

00:51:03   that is not the majority anymore, like talking about Apple. It's not by any stretch of the

00:51:09   imagination.

00:51:10   We've got video game coverage, we have space with Liftoff, we have creativity in art, design

00:51:19   development.

00:51:20   Weird Wikipedia articles.

00:51:22   Yes, that's the key.

00:51:24   Lists of things.

00:51:26   I just think that it's not the majority of shows anymore.

00:51:30   The people that host them are mostly in that world.

00:51:35   That's a different thing.

00:51:36   I think that's maybe why it feels that way.

00:51:37   All right, Hunter asks, "You have so many shows centered

00:51:40   around technology that assume the audience has

00:51:42   some basic knowledge of how computers work.

00:51:44   Would you consider a show focused on the basic whys

00:51:48   and hows of computing?"

00:51:49   So this question made me think of query.

00:51:53   And query had sort of this fundamental issue

00:51:56   at the heart of it of people that

00:51:58   have these sorts of questions aren't podcast listeners.

00:52:02   And if they are, they're not listening

00:52:05   to podcasts on tech networks, right?

00:52:08   They're listening to mainstream stuff.

00:52:10   And so there's that issue where there's a mismatch

00:52:15   of desired audience and actual audience.

00:52:18   There's also the thing that I also struggled with on query.

00:52:20   And MPU, we do a pretty good job of this

00:52:22   'cause David has so much experience in it

00:52:24   and I'm learning kind of from him how to do this better.

00:52:27   But it's actually kind of hard to explain

00:52:30   some concepts in technology,

00:52:32   especially basic concepts, just over audio.

00:52:35   You do need some sort of common denominator of understanding

00:52:40   to make that work.

00:52:41   So for instance, we did an episode of "NPU"

00:52:44   a while back about Keyboard Maestro.

00:52:46   And we spent the first 20 minutes

00:52:48   talking about the interface of Keyboard Maestro.

00:52:50   But really, that show was designed for you

00:52:52   to go, look at the show notes, and maybe

00:52:54   download the trial of the app and listen

00:52:55   as you're checking it out.

00:52:57   There's a tricky line to walk there.

00:53:00   But having a show that's really focused on the basics,

00:53:03   that could probably work on YouTube,

00:53:04   that can work on the web,

00:53:05   I don't know if it works in podcasting as well.

00:53:08   - That is a very good answer that I was not thinking of,

00:53:11   so you did a much better job than I would have

00:53:13   at that question, so thank you for taking that one.

00:53:15   - You bet.

00:53:16   - Kate wants to know, what is it like employing someone?

00:53:18   How has it changed the split of roles between the two of us,

00:53:21   and how has the roles of these people changed over time?

00:53:25   We have five contractors now that we work with, right? Five, six people that have

00:53:34   various levels of time that they give to us from a few hours a month to like 20 hours a week,

00:53:44   you know? There's like a scale that we have across the different people that we work with.

00:53:48   It's definitely changed the way that we work, me and you, because we don't have to do all the

00:53:54   things anymore and has changed our jobs in the sense that we have a lot more

00:53:58   things that we're just working on oversight of as opposed to like the

00:54:02   actual nuts and bolts. You know my kind of feeling on like what is it like

00:54:05   employing someone if you find the right person it's fantastic. That's well

00:54:10   said. I think too I think it changes the way we work because we're not just

00:54:14   working alone so like if we have an idea for something or we want to change

00:54:20   something, we are now working with the people who would be involved in that, right?

00:54:26   So when you're talking about the sales process, or again, this live show is just in my mind,

00:54:31   so I apologize, I keep using this example.

00:54:33   There's a lot of moving parts there, and so I have help doing some of these things that

00:54:38   in the past I would have done by myself, and it would have been really stressful.

00:54:43   And having somebody come alongside me and take some of those things, and I trust them

00:54:47   that it will be done correctly in the way that I want and all those things is a huge,

00:54:53   a huge deal. And it frees us up to focus on what we need to focus on, but also like honestly,

00:54:58   we're a better company for it. We're a better company for having these other people helping

00:55:02   us and bringing their expertise and their know-how and their attention to detail to

00:55:08   their various components of the company that they touch.

00:55:10   There is like an incredibly valuable thing in having somebody say to you, "Why do you

00:55:14   do it this way?"

00:55:15   Uh huh.

00:55:16   So I don't know.

00:55:17   Because that's how we've always done it.

00:55:19   Because in 2015, we didn't know what we were doing.

00:55:21   Yeah.

00:55:22   So we do it that way for like four more years.

00:55:25   Yeah, we run way better now because we have other people.

00:55:28   Like when you're not just doing something on your own,

00:55:31   when you have other people that you're working with,

00:55:33   it forces you to standardize some stuff.

00:55:35   And that is very valuable.

00:55:38   Yeah, it also allows us to be more ambitious with things

00:55:43   because we're able to grow.

00:55:45   So that's been really great.

00:55:46   You know, I guess kind of we still do have a division between us, right.

00:55:50   And like who manages what in our company.

00:55:53   And the way that it works is like those contractors naturally sit

00:55:57   in the divisions that me and Steven have created for ourselves.

00:56:00   So like I very rarely interact with a wonderful developer

00:56:05   because it's just not.

00:56:08   I can't help.

00:56:10   So it's pointless.

00:56:11   I tell all I do is tend to cause work for him in like not a good way, you know, just

00:56:18   like, what about this, this, this, this, this, and this, and then I leave the slack room.

00:56:22   But you know, it's just that is your skill set, like, so you manage that. And it works

00:56:28   well that way.

00:56:29   Yeah, I take your crazy ideas and I

00:56:31   filter them,

00:56:33   filter them. That's, that's the word I was looking for. And yeah, I mean, and you know,

00:56:38   handle the sales side of the company, right? I'm not out there selling ads. We

00:56:43   tried that. I'm really bad at it, like hilariously bad at it, and you and that

00:56:49   part of the company, you know, I can speak into that if I have an idea or a

00:56:53   question, but that's sort of your side. And so when things come in to our shared

00:56:57   inbox or there's a question from a host, you and I know kind of who needs to pick

00:57:02   that up. Very rarely is there something that comes into the company that I'm like,

00:57:05   I'm not actually sure who should do this."

00:57:08   Or you know, it's become very clear every time.

00:57:12   Gray gave us this advice years ago of like, we should have a, what's the word I'm looking

00:57:17   for Myke?

00:57:18   Silo.

00:57:19   An organizational chart.

00:57:21   Oh no, that didn't come from Gray, it came from a book that we read on Cortex.

00:57:24   Close enough.

00:57:25   I give Gray credit.

00:57:26   He's not going to hear this.

00:57:27   It came from a book that y'all read on Cortex.

00:57:32   An organizational chart makes a lot of sense.

00:57:34   And we did that when we were a company of two.

00:57:36   We did that years ago.

00:57:37   And as we've added roles and as we've expanded what we do,

00:57:42   that is still the template for where things go.

00:57:45   And honestly, I think we did a pretty good job

00:57:47   when we did that because we haven't changed much of it

00:57:49   over the years.

00:57:50   We've just expanded based on it.

00:57:51   - Yeah, 'cause I think we haven't really moved

00:57:55   into other areas, right?

00:57:57   Or just August, maybe like when we started doing

00:58:00   more merchandise stuff,

00:58:01   that just felt like something that was naturally your thing. The E myth revisited was the book,

00:58:07   bad book, good piece of advice. Alright, before we move on to our next set of questions I want

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00:59:34   FM. Alright, Brian asks, Is there any podcasting gear that

00:59:38   you are currently desiring?

00:59:40   No, I put this in for you. Like I don't want to touch anything

00:59:45   in my setup. I'm pretty happy.

00:59:47   I just bought something for our live show. I was limited to

00:59:51   Recording four tracks at once on my previous recorder and now I can do ten. I bought what is it?

00:59:56   We bought the sound devices. Hang on. I like the way I like like when we wait

01:00:01   Well, I mean, I mean as you're like it has literally anything to do with me. I mean, it's your money, too

01:00:06   I'm looking at the box sound devices mix pre 10. Is it the 10 or the 10 T? Ooh

01:00:12   10 T don't know if there is a 10 10 T. Maybe it's just 10 T

01:00:18   I don't know what the T isn't there for.

01:00:21   Totally awesome, I think.

01:00:23   So that will go out for the first time in our San Francisco show.

01:00:26   So I had a picture on Instagram a couple days ago setting it up in my office and getting

01:00:30   all the settings the way I want them and stuff.

01:00:32   It's a really incredible piece of hardware.

01:00:34   You know, past that, at this point, I really only buy gear when something breaks or my

01:00:40   needs expand like this that makes pre-10T.

01:00:43   I would not just go out and buy this, but we had a need and we want to do bigger, more

01:00:47   ambitious things so more tracks at once is important so we now own that. Usually

01:00:52   what happens is Stephen's like hmm this is gonna be difficult to do with the

01:00:56   gear and I'm like alright so what other options do we have and he goes away

01:01:00   and he looks it's like well there's this thing but I don't know and so just buy it.

01:01:03   Yeah pretty much out goes. We are an audio company like we need gear there's no

01:01:08   harm because then you're like oh so let's just keep it all like just you

01:01:10   have a big club cabinets just put the gear in the cabinet because we're not

01:01:15   always gonna need the 10T. Sometimes we might need the 6 or whatever it was you

01:01:18   heard before. Like you do not need to bring the 10T to San Jose because we

01:01:22   don't need 6 microphones next year. We're just gonna need 3. But it's super cool. But you have the

01:01:27   smaller one is just as good right? This is a wild question.

01:01:32   Majd asks which podcast do you feel most like your regular self when you

01:01:39   recall? This came from the chat room. That is so good. That is so good and I don't

01:01:44   know... all right so I feel like every show that I do by and large has just like a

01:01:51   different part of who I am in it depending on what is needed right? I

01:01:56   would say that like it's probably this show or Bonanza where I'm more just like

01:02:03   who I am as opposed to like holding something back specifically because it's

01:02:08   not really appropriate for the show. Business Myke. Yeah it's like if you're

01:02:12   being serious, which I feel like I'm being serious on most of my other shows by and large,

01:02:19   right? Cortex is pretty relaxed, but we have quite a narrow subject kind of area that we

01:02:28   pull from, right? Maybe playing for fun as well a little bit, but yeah, the shows where

01:02:34   I'm more relaxed are definitely where I'm more who I am most of the time.

01:02:40   Yeah, I mean, I think Connected is it for me out of my four.

01:02:44   We've been doing it the longest out of all the shows I do, and so we're the most comfortable

01:02:48   with each other.

01:02:49   It is the show that has the tendency to go off the rails, the easiest, you know.

01:02:54   Which shows more of who you are, right?

01:02:56   Yeah, yeah.

01:02:57   I think in those scenarios.

01:02:58   But it isn't always like appropriate.

01:03:00   That's true.

01:03:01   You know, Liftoff is pretty serious, MPU is pretty serious.

01:03:03   A genius like in a way, like so I need you to script it.

01:03:06   So I write those, even the jokes and everything, but we are playing roles on that show, right?

01:03:13   There are jokes that I want to make.

01:03:15   Yeah, because you make me a conspiracy theory acceptor all the time.

01:03:19   Exactly.

01:03:20   So they have like, we have lanes on that show.

01:03:23   So I would say out of my four it's connected.

01:03:25   Ted asks, "Do you think that Relay will ever start using video in podcasts?"

01:03:29   I'm going to answer this in two parts.

01:03:31   One, I think doing-

01:03:33   No, two, maybe.

01:03:35   [LAUGHTER]

01:03:37   One, no.

01:03:38   Two, yes.

01:03:39   I think that if we just added video to what we do now,

01:03:42   it would be incredibly boring and not very compelling.

01:03:46   Because it's just people--

01:03:47   I don't think it would add a lot.

01:03:48   No, it's just people staring into a camera

01:03:50   with a microphone and headphones.

01:03:52   There is a universe where Relay does pure-- or adds

01:03:56   some sort of video component that's way down the road,

01:03:59   if ever, because that would require a lot more people

01:04:02   and space and how do we do that when we're 100% remote.

01:04:05   But I think doing like just making connected video podcasts just isn't

01:04:10   interesting to me because it's just us sitting in the dark talking about

01:04:14   computers.

01:04:15   Zach asks, what are the origins of your switch on tagline

01:04:20   that you saw have sort of had but have never used?

01:04:24   And why haven't you ended up using it?

01:04:26   This is 100 percent your thing.

01:04:29   So if you're wondering like, like, what are you talking about?

01:04:32   It's in the footer of our of our website.

01:04:35   and it's in some Twitter banners, it pops up every now and then, switch on.

01:04:39   Yeah, I mean I just felt like we needed a tagline, and so we did that and it just never got used.

01:04:45   It's not in like the official logo we use, it's kind of in the footer sometimes.

01:04:50   It used to be in more places than it is now.

01:04:52   It has slowly faded.

01:04:54   Because it never caught on and we never used it for any... like I never think about it until I see it.

01:04:59   Do you even remember like why?

01:05:01   No, like why switch on?

01:05:03   Yeah.

01:05:04   I mean, I think we just felt like we needed something more and I don't know, it never

01:05:09   really went anywhere, it was fine.

01:05:10   I mean, I naturally expect like we're doing this thing again where Simon's going to send

01:05:14   us a message and be like, oh, I came up with that, like the entire name for the company.

01:05:18   He did.

01:05:19   Which is always funny.

01:05:20   It's like, I don't remember where the name of our company came from.

01:05:21   I'm sure, well, even me or Steven recommended it, but our designer Simon came up with it

01:05:26   because he's a genius.

01:05:27   And so I expect that he probably came up with Switch On as well, but you really like took

01:05:32   it.

01:05:33   This made me want to bring up relay.fm.

01:05:36   Oh my gosh.

01:05:37   Okay.

01:05:38   Because you did it during the Pingdom ad.

01:05:40   No, yeah I did.

01:05:42   I was kind of like going for the URL.

01:05:44   Uh huh.

01:05:45   But you get the URLs on none of the other websites.

01:05:47   But now if I edited that ad like I was going to, now I have to cut this out so you've created

01:05:51   some sort of paradox in my editing?

01:05:52   No, because you're going to have to keep that in because I'm talking about this whole "I

01:05:56   want to talk about relay.fm" as a thing right now.

01:05:58   Because this definitely ties into your feelings.

01:06:03   So the switch on tagline was something that you really liked and I didn't dislike it,

01:06:07   but you really wanted it used in a lot of places, right?

01:06:11   Because you are a person who believes in consistency of branding, which has been very useful for

01:06:17   us just from a branding perspective, which is why I also, in my mind, the design part

01:06:22   of our business mostly falls in your remit, right?

01:06:25   Because you're very good at that.

01:06:28   But this also comes to the name of our company, right? The name of our company is Relay FM.

01:06:34   That is the name of our company.

01:06:35   Yes.

01:06:36   A lot of people write it as Relay.fm, which I totally understand because it's our URL.

01:06:40   If you're going to write something not correct, at least putting the URL in instead is good,

01:06:44   right? Instead of calling it like Real FM, which we get a lot. R-E-A-L, which is hilarious.

01:06:51   So like, you know, if you're going to do it that way. But that I know frustrates you greatly.

01:06:56   But the funniest thing is the idea that when we launched, we decided we were never going

01:07:01   to call it Relay.

01:07:02   We would always refer to it as Relay FM.

01:07:06   And when people started calling it Relay, it was like, "No, don't do it.

01:07:09   Don't do that.

01:07:10   Call it Relay FM."

01:07:11   At this point, we've let that go completely.

01:07:14   We have.

01:07:15   Yeah, because we just lost that battle.

01:07:19   But like, even me and you, like, just naturally, it just felt like, "Oh, I can't even keep

01:07:23   hold of this."

01:07:24   Right, that I would just call it Relay.

01:07:26   So that's one thing that slipped away,

01:07:29   is the idea of Relay FM.

01:07:30   But the Relay.fm thing, I know is just like--

01:07:33   It bothers me.

01:07:34   You're never going to win that battle.

01:07:35   But I agree with you that we have to try to keep it.

01:07:38   Because our company's name is not Relay.fm.

01:07:41   It is Relay FM.

01:07:42   That is the company.

01:07:44   But as I say, as far as getting something slightly wrong,

01:07:48   having the actual URL is like, that works pretty good.

01:07:51   It irks me sometimes when our hosts do it.

01:07:54   That's really what irks me.

01:07:56   But you did it.

01:07:57   Well, I was going to fix it, but then we did all this.

01:08:01   I just want everybody to know that you're fallible.

01:08:03   On occasion, I make a tiny error.

01:08:06   But yeah, switch on.

01:08:07   Maybe one day we will have a new tagline that we'll use more.

01:08:11   But for now, switch on.

01:08:13   I think the only places on the website is in the footer.

01:08:16   Yeah, and then there's a few Twitter banners.

01:08:18   I remember when you were very, very consistent on Twitter

01:08:21   banners all being the same.

01:08:22   Yes.

01:08:23   and the Twitter handles and I lost that too.

01:08:25   The problem is with consistency--

01:08:27   - Because our format of Twitter handles is bad.

01:08:28   - It is bad.

01:08:29   The problem with consistency is

01:08:30   once you start adding people, you just lose, right?

01:08:33   Like if it's just me and you doing everything,

01:08:35   I can enforce it.

01:08:37   - All right, so I wanna make a petition now

01:08:38   to see if anybody can help us.

01:08:40   @RelayFM has always been suspended.

01:08:44   If anybody can help us get that, please help us.

01:08:48   We have tried the trademark route.

01:08:49   We have a trademark on our name.

01:08:51   Twitter will not pay any attention to our requests.

01:08:53   The reason that so many of our shows

01:08:55   are underscore something FM

01:08:56   is because we couldn't get relay FM.

01:08:59   I would really like that Twitter handle.

01:09:01   - Me too.

01:09:02   - Like wouldn't that be nice to have?

01:09:04   No one has used it in over five years it has been suspended.

01:09:09   We would really like it.

01:09:10   And then we could go for a little bit more consistency

01:09:12   in our names by dropping the underscores where possible.

01:09:15   - All right, Lee asks,

01:09:16   how do you plan getting new voices onto the network

01:09:19   rather than the usual rotation.

01:09:21   - Can I answer this?

01:09:22   - Sure.

01:09:23   - So I've been thinking about this question a lot.

01:09:25   I think that where we are today in 2019,

01:09:29   I'm happy with the progress that we have made

01:09:31   from when we started.

01:09:33   When we started, we had zero diversity in our host makeup.

01:09:38   And since then, we have worked very hard

01:09:43   to try and balance that a little bit better.

01:09:46   I'm happy with the progress we've made.

01:09:47   there is always more progress to make, right?

01:09:50   Like you can always continue to go down that route.

01:09:53   So I, you know, we are always gonna continue working on it.

01:09:57   I am happy that I believe that we have helped

01:10:00   some shows get off the ground with hosts

01:10:02   that were new to podcasting.

01:10:04   Well, I know that they were, right?

01:10:05   Like we have helped many people, it was like their first show

01:10:08   they've been as part of a panel and that's really great.

01:10:11   And I would like for us to continue to keep doing that.

01:10:16   Unfortunately, we do not have the ability to work with everyone that we would want to.

01:10:21   As it stands right now, we have very limited resources that we're able to... because we're

01:10:26   very involved, right, to a point.

01:10:29   And I think that we have limited resources.

01:10:32   Even if we never need to interact with the host of a show, still having any show on the

01:10:38   network takes resources from us.

01:10:41   Like attention and making sure that everything's taken care of.

01:10:45   Because I don't want anybody to ever be on relay FM and it's like, oh, it's basically

01:10:50   like just having an account at Libsyn, right?

01:10:53   Exactly.

01:10:54   Because we're not a podcast host, right?

01:10:57   We are not a place where someone just hosts a show.

01:11:00   We don't want to be like that.

01:11:01   So we don't have the ability to take really any of the pitches that we get because we

01:11:06   get daily people wanting to have shows on the network.

01:11:11   And it's just not something that we're able to do.

01:11:13   And one of the reasons for this is because we cannot guarantee success for any person

01:11:18   or any show.

01:11:19   And this is especially true for people that are brand new.

01:11:22   So we give resources and advice and assistance, but it is impossible for us to help somebody

01:11:29   find a sizable and long lasting audience.

01:11:31   This is not a thing.

01:11:33   We are not able to take Real AFM listeners and just point them towards a new show.

01:11:39   We can do everything we can to promote it.

01:11:41   We can mention it.

01:11:42   We can have it.

01:11:43   not a thing where we can guarantee success for somebody. This is just not a thing. I

01:11:47   wished it was, but it isn't. So we can give all of the assistance that we can, but we

01:11:53   can never make guarantees. So this is something that needs to come from the show, the individuals

01:11:59   from the content to help grow something. So we have to continue to find a balance between

01:12:04   new people and people with existing audiences. Because if we have limited time, considering

01:12:09   we are a business, like we need our shows to make sense for us.

01:12:13   And if people want to make money from a show, they have to have an audience

01:12:18   that they're bringing to the show.

01:12:19   And there isn't too much, unfortunately, that we are able to do to guarantee

01:12:25   that for someone. We cannot guarantee it.

01:12:26   So basically, this is a really long way of saying I think we have brought a lot

01:12:31   of people in that you may have never heard of before, but now they're like

01:12:35   really popular and successful people.

01:12:38   We are continuing to try and do that.

01:12:40   We have a show launching pretty soon that has a host that I would expect

01:12:46   the vast majority of our audience has never heard of before

01:12:48   because they're in a completely different world to technology.

01:12:50   So we're going to keep trying to do that,

01:12:53   but we can't really just take pictures anymore.

01:12:58   I mean, it tends to be that a show that we launch on Relay,

01:13:01   one of the hosts is known to us or known to someone on our network.

01:13:05   And there's been like, I think that you should talk to this person kind of thing.

01:13:08   because that's just where we are. We are at a stage right now where we can't add

01:13:13   shows very easily. So when we do add shows we do think long and hard about

01:13:20   the makeup of the people because we are not in a position anymore where we can

01:13:25   just add as many shows as we want. So when we have a new opportunity come our

01:13:28   way we're like is this meeting the goals that we have as a company for what we

01:13:32   want our diversity to look like and we just keep working on it and we keep

01:13:35   trying but we're not in really a place where we can just do everything. I hope

01:13:42   that that has answered the question.

01:13:44   Yeah, well said. I don't have anything to add.

01:13:46   Max asks, "I was curious what traits you find are best in a host. Who do you like

01:13:52   and what do you like listening to and what do you look for in hosts for shows?"

01:13:55   I think it's somebody who has a point of view and a voice that is unique but also

01:14:04   like with that on the the opposite of the coin is somebody who can do it for

01:14:08   like the long haul there are lots of people who have good ideas but we want

01:14:13   to work with people and want to do projects that are long-lasting and if

01:14:17   you look at our roster over the five over the five years there have been

01:14:22   shows that have ended I spoke about you know three of them that I know the vast

01:14:26   majority of shows that have ended have come from you yes I'm at the graves for

01:14:30   all three of those shows myself.

01:14:32   But really, most of our shows last a long time

01:14:35   and we wanna have relationships with hosts that span years.

01:14:39   And so that's something we always look at too,

01:14:41   both from an idea perspective and a host perspective.

01:14:43   But somebody who can bring something unique to the table

01:14:45   with their background, their expertise,

01:14:49   their view of the world that is unique and interesting,

01:14:53   that seems really easy, but it's not.

01:14:57   And I think for both of us, we've either had always

01:15:03   or have learned kind of what that means

01:15:06   and what that looks like in different content areas.

01:15:10   And our final question comes from Odin.

01:15:12   What a name.

01:15:13   Who asks?

01:15:14   I know.

01:15:14   I don't think-- I'm not sure if this is their real name.

01:15:16   It may be the name that they choose on Twitter.

01:15:18   I hope it is their real name.

01:15:20   Maybe they're the real Odin.

01:15:21   Oh, boy.

01:15:22   Then this question has even more gravity now

01:15:24   that Odin was Lord of Thunder.

01:15:26   God of Thunder is asking this.

01:15:28   Oh, no, Thor is God of Thunder.

01:15:30   Odin is just like, anyway, Odin's Thor's dad,

01:15:32   but I don't remember what Odin is God of, if anything.

01:15:35   Anyway, how has your company strategy changed

01:15:38   as you look at the next five years?

01:15:40   How will you ensure that you keep trying new things?

01:15:42   I don't think you have to keep trying new things, do you?

01:15:45   Is that a thing?

01:15:47   - I think that you need, we need, we are,

01:15:50   like I think we've done a good job of this,

01:15:51   of evolving our idea over time,

01:15:54   and evolving what a relay FM show is, and how it works,

01:15:59   that is something we will always look at.

01:16:03   We always wanna make sure that we're remaining relevant,

01:16:04   and we wanna make sure that we're remaining interesting.

01:16:07   - And maybe that's what new things means, right?

01:16:10   Sometimes. - Yes.

01:16:11   I don't think new things mean that we're going to start

01:16:14   all of a sudden a YouTube channel,

01:16:16   or we're going to start a consulting firm

01:16:19   you and I are doing something on the side, you know, based on

01:16:23   really like, I don't think it's that stuff. For me, it's always

01:16:27   remembering what works and and how we got to where we are

01:16:31   through hard work of ourselves and hard work of other people.

01:16:34   And the relationships we have with our hosts, that's the most

01:16:36   important thing to me. And, and making sure that that recipe is

01:16:42   always tended to and that it works in the environment that

01:16:44   we're in. And our industry has seen a lot of change over the

01:16:48   last five years and I think the next five years could see even more change

01:16:52   with more players coming in, companies, big media companies coming in spending

01:16:59   lots of money, doing lots of things. Some will be successful, some will not. Through

01:17:04   all of that what what will keep Relay FM alive and well is us... Relay.fm.

01:17:10   Relay.fm switch on. What will keep us switching on is really remembering and

01:17:18   focusing on what makes relay stuff good, but with an eye cut towards, are there any big

01:17:23   shifts happening in the larger ecosystem that we need to be aware of? And so far, just candidly,

01:17:30   there haven't been many, you have companies doing big stuff. Now that's really affected us. We work

01:17:36   with some of those companies, we know a lot of people doing interesting things. But what what

01:17:41   has made relay from successful for the last five years, that will be a thread through the next

01:17:45   five, I guarantee it.

01:17:47   I love that answer. What a great way to finish. Switch off, Stephen.

01:17:50   Switch off! Someone had a really good idea in the chat room that we should replace switch on with

01:17:56   a text from the challenge coin, which also for sale in the store, the text is creative,

01:18:02   curious, obsessive. That is our actual, like, we came up with that as like the secondary tagline,

01:18:09   I guess, but didn't use it everywhere. Relay FM is an independent podcast network of people who

01:18:14   who are creative, curious, and maybe a little obsessive.

01:18:17   Just like its hosts.

01:18:18   Yeah, it should say creative, curious, obsessive.

01:18:20   I like that.

01:18:21   Who came up with that?

01:18:21   - That was, I'm scrolling in the chatroom, I'm sorry.

01:18:24   Dave G.

01:18:26   - Thanks, Dave G.

01:18:27   - Thanks, Dave G.

01:18:28   Dave G, if you don't own a challenge coin,

01:18:30   shoot me an email.

01:18:31   We'll send you one.

01:18:32   - Oh, damn, son.

01:18:33   Look at that.

01:18:34   - You have to prove you're Dave G somehow

01:18:35   because IRC is useless.

01:18:38   All right, so there are some links in the show notes.

01:18:41   Mostly we just talked about ourselves, so sorry about that.

01:18:44   But you can find those at relay.fm/connected/256.

01:18:46   Don't apologize.

01:18:47   Be proud of yourself.

01:18:48   256.

01:18:49   You did this.

01:18:50   You did this.

01:18:51   Five years, you did this.

01:18:52   Be proud of yourself.

01:18:53   You did too.

01:18:54   I'm just saying, I am proud of myself.

01:18:57   Oh, don't worry.

01:18:57   No one needs to tell me.

01:18:58   No one needs to tell me.

01:18:59   [LAUGHTER]

01:19:01   If there's one thing I can do, it's be proud of myself.

01:19:03   Totally fine.

01:19:05   Own it, man.

01:19:05   You did this.

01:19:06   Yes.

01:19:07   Don't apologize.

01:19:07   Anyways, so there's some links there.

01:19:09   If you're listening to this the day it comes out,

01:19:11   the day after it comes out, and you

01:19:12   You won a Relay FM 5th anniversary shirt.

01:19:14   Time is running out, so go check that out over

01:19:17   on cottonbureau.com/stores/relay-fm.

01:19:19   Pins and Challenge claims.

01:19:21   Still available.

01:19:22   Go buy them.

01:19:22   Sorry I just spoke over the URL.

01:19:24   Say it again.

01:19:25   I think it's relay.fm/store is the short version.

01:19:27   Let's see if that redirects.

01:19:29   Nice.

01:19:30   You just go to Cotton Bureau and search Relay FM

01:19:32   and you'll find it too.

01:19:32   Or just make it your home page.

01:19:34   I mean, honestly.

01:19:35   So you'll always be ready for the new merch.

01:19:37   That's right.

01:19:37   Merch.

01:19:38   Yeah, relay.fm/store.

01:19:40   Yes, that redirects.

01:19:41   That redirects.

01:19:42   - After two redirects, but it will take you there.

01:19:44   Don't worry about it, it's fine.

01:19:45   - Let's not talk about that.

01:19:46   - I don't wanna know what's holding that together.

01:19:49   - Tape.

01:19:50   Tape and luck.

01:19:51   You can also check out our membership

01:19:53   at relay.fm/membership.

01:19:56   We love our members.

01:19:57   We love everybody, but our members hold a special place

01:19:59   in our heart, you know, can't lie.

01:20:02   Favorites.

01:20:03   One day Federico will be back.

01:20:04   In the meantime, if you wanna follow him on Twitter,

01:20:06   you can do so at Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:20:09   - He's not gonna be here next week.

01:20:11   He's not going to be here next week because he's not coming to San Francisco.

01:20:14   He used to write at MacStories.net at some point, a beautiful iOS review will appear.

01:20:19   So stay tuned for that.

01:20:24   He's like in it.

01:20:26   He's not talking to us.

01:20:27   He's like...

01:20:28   Yeah, we spoke about this last time, right?

01:20:30   We're just not really sure if he's...

01:20:32   Like what's going on, if he's alive, if he's just all automated.

01:20:35   I don't know.

01:20:36   Oh my God.

01:20:37   I was adding previous Q&As to the show notes and I came across this 2017 and it's a video

01:20:44   and you look like a baby.

01:20:45   I didn't have a beard.

01:20:47   No beard.

01:20:48   So the previous QAs will be in the show notes.

01:20:52   Yep, that was as per request of Champion Question Ask a Kate.

01:20:56   Including one in which I'm very sick.

01:20:59   Very sick.

01:21:00   You're always so sick for the important things.

01:21:02   So you can follow Federico or what's left of him.

01:21:04   You can follow Myke on Twitter @imyke.

01:21:08   Myke, of course, is the host of a bunch of shows

01:21:10   at relay.fm/shows.

01:21:12   You can check those out.

01:21:14   You can follow me on Twitter as ismh

01:21:16   and I write 512pixels.net.

01:21:19   I have to thank our sponsors this week,

01:21:20   Pingdom, DoorDash, and Smile.

01:21:24   And until I see you in just a couple days, Myke,

01:21:27   say goodbye.

01:21:28   - See you tomorrow.

01:21:29   It's literally tomorrow.

01:21:31   - Sweet dreams!

01:21:32   (laughing)