Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 253.

00:00:13 ◼   ► It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:15 ◼   ► ExpressVPN and Bombas.

00:00:18 ◼   ► My name is Stephen Hackett, I am back

00:00:20 ◼   ► and to restore order to whatever happened last week.

00:00:24 ◼   ► And it's an odd episode,

00:00:27 ◼   ► So Myke, you get to say hello first.

00:00:30 ◼   ► - Oh, hello.

00:00:32 ◼   ► - Hi, I'm glad to be back.

00:00:33 ◼   ► I'm glad you're feeling better.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Glad you're sounding better.

00:00:35 ◼   ► - I realized that last week I introduced myself first.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Just because you have the episode number wrong.

00:00:41 ◼   ► It's episode 254.

00:00:44 ◼   ► - So Federico, you get to go second, but really first.

00:00:47 ◼   ► The first shall be last, as it is said.

00:00:50 ◼   ► - I like how you said you're bringing back order

00:00:52 ◼   ► and you've actually brought chaos upon the show,

00:00:55 ◼   ► is what you've actually done.

00:00:55 ◼   ► - This is extremely chaotic for an introduction

00:00:59 ◼   ► coming from you.

00:01:00 ◼   ► - I quit.

00:01:01 ◼   ► - I feel confused and perplexed, Stephen,

00:01:05 ◼   ► what you've done here.

00:01:07 ◼   ► You should maybe go back to vacation or something.

00:01:10 ◼   ► - I mean, I won't argue with going back on vacation,

00:01:13 ◼   ► but we're here, so we probably should just

00:01:16 ◼   ► keep doing the show.

00:01:17 ◼   ► Can we just move forward, you think?

00:01:19 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Over the weekend, I was at the MaxDock conference

00:01:25 ◼   ► John Voorhees, we should give a special shout out to,

00:01:27 ◼   ► who not only picked me up from the airport in Chicago

00:01:32 ◼   ► and took me to the airport to leave several days later,

00:01:34 ◼   ► then picked me up again when my flight was canceled,

00:01:36 ◼   ► let me spend a night in his house with his family,

00:01:38 ◼   ► and then took me back to the airport.

00:01:39 ◼   ► John, truly my savior this weekend and this week of--

00:01:44 ◼   ► - Was that a max stories expense?

00:01:45 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:47 ◼   ► John, are you listening?

00:01:49 ◼   ► - It's between you and John.

00:01:52 ◼   ► - You need to buy him like a muffin basket or something.

00:01:56 ◼   ► - I should get him something.

00:01:57 ◼   ► I should have, guys, we had to talk

00:02:00 ◼   ► about John's cable management under his desk.

00:02:02 ◼   ► It's not good.

00:02:03 ◼   ► - He has a problem, right?

00:02:05 ◼   ► - He does, and he was in the middle of like--

00:02:07 ◼   ► - Does he have a problem anymore?

00:02:09 ◼   ► - Well, so he was like setting up new stuff,

00:02:10 ◼   ► and so it wasn't in a state that I could do it,

00:02:12 ◼   ► but I think I'm gonna have to go back.

00:02:14 ◼   ► And I'm gonna have to go back to Chicago

00:02:16 ◼   ► and fix this for him.

00:02:16 ◼   ► - I think you liked hanging out at John's house.

00:02:20 ◼   ► - I did.

00:02:21 ◼   ► I really enjoyed it.

00:02:22 ◼   ► No, I think he secretly enjoyed Mac stock more than he was expecting, purely on the

00:02:27 ◼   ► fact that he just got to open up a bunch of Macs in an unclean environment.

00:02:34 ◼   ► I'm looking at these pictures of you doing things with Mac computers and your hands,

00:02:41 ◼   ► and there's one that sort of looks like a Renaissance painting, that's like you sitting

00:02:45 ◼   ► down handling a Mac Mini and like a bunch of people all around you. I could see this

00:02:51 ◼   ► one as a painting. What is that spiral thing? What spiral thing? You know when you like

00:02:55 ◼   ► put there's like a there's like a spiral grid that you can put over artwork just like the

00:03:01 ◼   ► golden ratio? Somebody needs to overlay the golden ratio and see if it fits because there's

00:03:06 ◼   ► a bunch of things happening like David's looking down at you all lovingly and then there's

00:03:10 ◼   ► some dude who's giving like a real weird side eye to somebody else like there's like a bunch

00:03:14 ◼   ► of things going on and I feel like if you put the spiral on this like I think it would

00:03:19 ◼   ► work. Yeah. I think the Fibonacci sequence also kind of fits in here. Not sure how, but

00:03:27 ◼   ► I think in all paintings with the gold narration and stuff, the Fibonacci sequence comes into

00:03:31 ◼   ► play. And so the composition of this picture... I think that's the thing I'm talking about,

00:03:35 ◼   ► the Fibonacci sequence, when you draw like that spiral. Yes. Yes. I think that's what

00:03:41 ◼   ► I'm talking about. Somebody's gonna do it, and if it doesn't work, please alter the spiral

00:03:48 ◼   ► so that it fits because we just want to see it done, really.

00:03:51 ◼   ► I actually think the golden ratio and the Fibonacci sequence are the same thing.

00:03:55 ◼   ► Oh, see, there you go. So I just used two words to mean the same thing. Awesome.

00:03:59 ◼   ► Because I wanted to say Fibonacci sequence, but it sounded like a math thing, and it is a math thing.

00:04:05 ◼   ► And yeah, it's all very confusing to me, but it's a thing that people do.

00:04:09 ◼   ► Anyways, some people, including Rose Orchard, who has a show on the network called Automators,

00:04:15 ◼   ► They had some Macs that needed upgrades and they just brought them to the conference and

00:04:20 ◼   ► people were asking around.

00:04:21 ◼   ► I find this perplexing.

00:04:23 ◼   ► I find this whole thing perplexing.

00:04:24 ◼   ► You maybe need to help me with this.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Okay.

00:04:27 ◼   ► Why were people bringing their broken Macs to Macstock?

00:04:31 ◼   ► Is it like a part of the conference that like you go there and fix the computers?

00:04:35 ◼   ► No, it's not.

00:04:36 ◼   ► So the iMac was brought by Father John, who I think he just brought it hoping that someone

00:04:44 ◼   ► would be able to put we put ram and ssd in it and because it's a 21 inch iMac and there's no ram

00:04:50 ◼   ► drawer on it because of stupid reasons you have to take the logic board out to upgrade the ram so in

00:04:54 ◼   ► that picture the logic i'm on you know we're getting the logic board out and stuff so took it all the

00:04:58 ◼   ► way apart so i think he just brought it hoping someone could do it and i answered the call like

00:05:03 ◼   ► batman or some sort of doctor on a plane wait wait wait we're we're not calling john voorhees father

00:05:09 ◼   ► John now, right? No, no, no, no, no. So who's Father John? He was the guy at the conference.

00:05:15 ◼   ► Oh, he's another person. Okay, okay, another person. All right. Okay. Yes. Not, not, not

00:05:20 ◼   ► John Voorhees. Okay. I feel uncomfortable calling John Voorhees Father John. Just clarifying. But

00:05:26 ◼   ► you see, I'm just, I find myself perplexed. Where did the suction cups come from? To lift the...

00:05:32 ◼   ► He brought, he had all the tools and everything. I just did it. And how did they find you? How

00:05:37 ◼   ► How do you, were you like trolling the tables,

00:05:39 ◼   ► hoping to start opening up some computers?

00:05:42 ◼   ► How did you get involved in this?

00:05:44 ◼   ► - I was in line for lunch, and they're like,

00:05:47 ◼   ► does anybody know how to take the glass off an iMac?

00:05:49 ◼   ► 'Cause I think he had planned to do the rest of it himself,

00:05:52 ◼   ► he just needed help with the glass,

00:05:53 ◼   ► and I was like, well, I know how to do that,

00:05:54 ◼   ► and then I ended up doing the whole thing,

00:05:56 ◼   ► it took an hour and a half.

00:05:57 ◼   ► But it all worked for the record,

00:05:59 ◼   ► both of these computers survived.

00:06:01 ◼   ► And so the second one was Rose bought a Mac Mini,

00:06:05 ◼   ► I think in the United States,

00:06:06 ◼   ► So I guess if the European Union is listening,

00:06:09 ◼   ► go after Rose.

00:06:10 ◼   ► But she brought RAM.

00:06:13 ◼   ► - That's not where I thought he was going.

00:06:14 ◼   ► - She brought RAM to upgrade it,

00:06:16 ◼   ► and she had seen me do the iMacs rather successfully.

00:06:20 ◼   ► And she was gonna do the Mac Mini herself,

00:06:22 ◼   ► but then said, "Well, you're here, why don't you do it?"

00:06:24 ◼   ► So it was the first time inside a new Mac Mini.

00:06:26 ◼   ► - There are so many people watching you.

00:06:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, it became like a little bit of a situation.

00:06:30 ◼   ► And then actually Brett Terpstra had a MacBook

00:06:33 ◼   ► that needed a battery taken out, and I drew the line there.

00:06:35 ◼   ► I was like, I'm done, sorry Brett.

00:06:38 ◼   ► Two is my, one per day for a two day conference

00:06:40 ◼   ► felt like enough.

00:06:42 ◼   ► This is not something I'm planning on doing

00:06:43 ◼   ► at conferences I go to in the future,

00:06:44 ◼   ► so if you see me at, you know, WWDC or Release Notes,

00:06:49 ◼   ► some of the conference, this is not my normal,

00:06:53 ◼   ► my normal emo.

00:06:54 ◼   ► - Is it though?

00:06:55 ◼   ► - It's not, no see, this is the thing.

00:06:57 ◼   ► It is not a normal thing that you do,

00:06:59 ◼   ► but I think it's something you would like to do more.

00:07:01 ◼   ► - And also it is completely within character

00:07:03 ◼   ► for you to do this.

00:07:05 ◼   ► Literally nobody is surprised.

00:07:07 ◼   ► No.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Well, it's done.

00:07:12 ◼   ► Both machines were successfully upgraded.

00:07:14 ◼   ► Maybe you should be like a traveling repairman.

00:07:18 ◼   ► If the podcasting career doesn't work out,

00:07:20 ◼   ► you could have like a van and travel to the United States,

00:07:24 ◼   ► maybe even Europe, and just fix people's computers.

00:07:27 ◼   ► It's sort of like a street food truck, but you fix computers.

00:07:31 ◼   ► I'm not sure how successful that would be as a business,

00:07:34 ◼   ► but I do like the idea.

00:07:35 ◼   ► Okay, just give it a mic.

00:07:36 ◼   ► - Like, I could be like the Matt cowboy.

00:07:39 ◼   ► - Sure, you can be that.

00:07:40 ◼   ► - Right around town to town.

00:07:42 ◼   ► I have some follow out, Myke, about upgrade this week.

00:07:47 ◼   ► - Don't give, no look, don't be like Myke,

00:07:49 ◼   ► 'cause you knew I wasn't gonna know this, right?

00:07:51 ◼   ► So you should be aiming your eye out at Jason.

00:07:53 ◼   ► - Jason, Jason.

00:07:55 ◼   ► So here's what, I was gonna send this to y'all

00:07:57 ◼   ► privately as feedback, but I thought,

00:07:59 ◼   ► they might not make it in the show, and I thought,

00:08:01 ◼   ► what outline do I control where I could say this?

00:08:04 ◼   ► and I realized this is the time.

00:08:06 ◼   ► So, talking about the rumored 16-inch MacBook Pro,

00:08:10 ◼   ► that rumor broke last week, I think,

00:08:12 ◼   ► that the starting price is gonna be three grand,

00:08:14 ◼   ► which is a lot of money for a laptop.

00:08:18 ◼   ► Clearly, this was set above the 15-inch.

00:08:19 ◼   ► We've talked about this before.

00:08:21 ◼   ► And I saw a couple tweets about this as well,

00:08:23 ◼   ► but Jason mentioned that he thought

00:08:24 ◼   ► it would be the most expensive starting price

00:08:27 ◼   ► for an Apple notebook, and it's not even close.

00:08:30 ◼   ► So I went through a little application called Mac Tracker,

00:08:34 ◼   ► which has a bunch of this information in it. And I came up with several examples of machines

00:08:40 ◼   ► over $3,000. Now, I don't say this, just to correct Jason, although part of me will enjoy

00:08:46 ◼   ► that. I just I was supremely shocked at some of these prices. And remember, the most of

00:08:52 ◼   ► the machines I'm going to list were for sale in the 90s. So this is like 90s dollars, I

00:08:55 ◼   ► didn't do the conversion to current day. But a lot of Apple notebooks have been really

00:09:00 ◼   ► expensive. The really only modern example of a machine over three grand was the original

00:09:06 ◼   ► 17 inch PowerBook G4. It was $3,300 but it fell below $3,000 after its first revision

00:09:14 ◼   ► and then kind of stayed you know $2,500, $2,600, $2,700 most of its life. More expensive than

00:09:20 ◼   ► the 15 inch at the time but still pricey. But if we go to the 90s, some crazy things

00:09:26 ◼   ► happen.

00:09:27 ◼   ► Can I ask, these aren't adjusted to today's dollars are they?

00:09:28 ◼   ► No, this is 19, these are original prices, so the 17-inch PowerBook came out in 2002,

00:09:33 ◼   ► I think, or 2003, and these older PowerBooks are all in the 90s.

00:09:38 ◼   ► These are 90s dollar amounts.

00:09:40 ◼   ► So it'd be even higher today if we adjusted for inflation and current day dollars.

00:09:47 ◼   ► The PowerBook 540 was $3,160, but if you got the 540C that had a color screen, $4,840,

00:09:57 ◼   ► just a lot of money. The PowerBook 2400C was $3,500. The PowerBook 3400C, so again color

00:10:06 ◼   ► display, if you got the 180 megahertz it was $4,500 but the all-time most expensive Apple

00:10:13 ◼   ► notebook the PowerBook 3400C 240 megahertz $6,500. That's a lot of dollars. That is all

00:10:26 ◼   ► the dollars. It's twice the dollars. But wouldn't that one technically not be the starting price

00:10:31 ◼   ► though? So I mean no but the starting price is still 4500. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's

00:10:39 ◼   ► still ridiculous. The the Macintosh portable which is like not really a laptop because

00:10:44 ◼   ► it had a car battery in it. Its starting price was $6500. What do you want at a car back

00:10:52 ◼   ► Macintosh portable it had like a lead acid battery in it like a car

00:10:56 ◼   ► It weighed it weighed 16 pounds nice nice and it's starting price was

00:11:04 ◼   ► $6,500 and again to break from the starting price if you wanted a hard drive in it

00:11:11 ◼   ► $7,300 computers we used to be expensive turns out yes, and so the 16 inches you know

00:11:20 ◼   ► Maybe they are gonna put this a colored logo on it. It's like

00:11:22 ◼   ► Make it feel more authentic

00:11:25 ◼   ► Expensive like the old days. Yeah, that's all I just wanted to share this research because I wanted in the world

00:11:32 ◼   ► I can confirm to you now that we have done this follow-up

00:11:36 ◼   ► I would not have included it and follow up for upgrades

00:11:39 ◼   ► So I'm pleased that you did it. I know just like you never read my ask upgrade questions about

00:11:44 ◼   ► G3 laptops like you just you ignore my existence unless I need to adjudicate your well

00:11:50 ◼   ► If you maybe if they weren't all about just really old stuff all the time and maybe yeah

00:11:55 ◼   ► But I kind of I got a brand to build here man. Yeah, you mean you keep building it here

00:11:59 ◼   ► But I ain't doing it for you

00:12:01 ◼   ► Okay. So anyways, I have no doubt that six inch macro Pro be expensive, but it joins

00:12:06 ◼   ► the history books of other expensive high-end laptops mm-hmm a couple well a reminder and

00:12:13 ◼   ► an announcement and a half

00:12:15 ◼   ► This is confusing

00:12:18 ◼   ► We are doing a live show in San Francisco on August 22nd

00:12:22 ◼   ► That we have just a handful of tickets left. So go check out that link

00:12:27 ◼   ► we would love to see you a whole bunch of relay FM hosts are going to be there together and

00:12:30 ◼   ► We are going to be putting them through some I don't want to say challenges

00:12:36 ◼   ► But I'll just say that it's going to be an extravaganza

00:12:40 ◼   ► Beyond anything that podcasting has ever seen I think I think the final number is 18 hosts. Yep. That's where we are

00:12:47 ◼   ► We'll be on stage

00:12:49 ◼   ► So settle in everybody. It's gonna be a big one. Mm-hmm

00:12:52 ◼   ► We're all gonna come out one of those like tiny clown cars from the circus like

00:12:56 ◼   ► just kidding

00:12:59 ◼   ► The the week before that though is relays birthday week and the episode of that week

00:13:04 ◼   ► Which is like August 13th or 14th somewhere in there

00:13:07 ◼   ► Myke and I will be having our annual relay QA so this we've done this every year now where we take

00:13:14 ◼   ► Listener questions and we answer them on the show one year. We did it on a YouTube video

00:13:18 ◼   ► We're gonna put it back in sort of podcast form this year

00:13:21 ◼   ► So if you have a question for me and Myke about podcasting of the company really anything you can tweet with the hashtag

00:13:27 ◼   ► relay QA and I have a little

00:13:31 ◼   ► automation Roomba going around and sucking all those up and putting them in a spreadsheet so

00:13:36 ◼   ► Just cleaning up the tweets. That's right. So I tweet with that and those will go in that episode and I

00:13:42 ◼   ► Can't announce this because we have something happening tomorrow, but maybe just keep an eye on the relay FM Twitter account tomorrow

00:13:48 ◼   ► August 1st, I have literally no idea what he's talking about. So that would be fun for everyone

00:13:53 ◼   ► You do know what I'm talking about. I do not know what you're doing tomorrow

00:13:56 ◼   ► Those things those things we're doing tomorrow. Oh

00:14:00 ◼   ► He's text me yeah, okay. Yeah, that'd be good. It'd be fun. I think you'll like that

00:14:05 ◼   ► that.

00:14:06 ◼   ► Well, way to really sell it.

00:14:07 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:14:08 ◼   ► I don't want to make it sound like we have 17 new shows starring all of your faves.

00:14:12 ◼   ► It's not a new show.

00:14:13 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:14:14 ◼   ► It's not a new show.

00:14:16 ◼   ► But we have some fun stuff coming tomorrow.

00:14:19 ◼   ► You need your wallet, basically.

00:14:21 ◼   ► There you go.

00:14:22 ◼   ► That sets the expectation, I think.

00:14:25 ◼   ► You need your wallet.

00:14:26 ◼   ► So that was my announcement.

00:14:27 ◼   ► No, that was my reminder and announcement and a half or whatever I said.

00:14:31 ◼   ► Thus endeth follow-up.

00:14:32 ◼   ► We have a tiny topic, but it's really a 27 inch topic.

00:14:37 ◼   ► The LG ultrafine 5k, you know, it was for sale forever.

00:14:42 ◼   ► Apple took it off the market for a little bit, but now it's back.

00:14:45 ◼   ► And there's been a lot of confusion over the last couple days about what can use this display.

00:14:50 ◼   ► So we're going to get to that.

00:14:51 ◼   ► But the new ultrafine, it's the same 27 inch panel as before, same sort of clumsy enclosure.

00:14:59 ◼   ► It's not the best looking thing in the world.

00:15:01 ◼   ► It's not terrible.

00:15:02 ◼   ► have the 4k my wife uses it with her MacBook Air and like it's not beautiful

00:15:05 ◼   ► but it definitely gets the job done and of course the ultra fine you know that

00:15:09 ◼   ► the brightness and volume controls for Mac OS all work with this it's pretty

00:15:13 ◼   ► well integrated more so than like a Dell or an HP or some other third-party

00:15:16 ◼   ► monitor so that ultra fine this ultra fine keeps all that the same this one

00:15:21 ◼   ► adds a webcam and a microphone which the other the old one did not I think I told

00:15:27 ◼   ► you guys this privately I don't think I said on the show when I was setting up

00:15:30 ◼   ► my wife's with her MacBook Air I thought it was broken like I thought it had a

00:15:34 ◼   ► webcam in it I was like like trying to like open photo booth like check out the

00:15:38 ◼   ► quality is like where is it that actually looked at the bezel and was

00:15:41 ◼   ► there wasn't one this new one includes it I have a question and yes the Mac mini

00:15:47 ◼   ► uh-huh does it have a t2 chip in it it does does that have any kind of tie to

00:15:52 ◼   ► that webcam because isn't that a thing in like the iMac Pro and stuff well the

00:15:58 ◼   ► iMac so t2 max with built-in iSights yes there's some sort of security layer

00:16:03 ◼   ► there I do not believe that that is extended to USB webcam so I believe if I

00:16:08 ◼   ► plugged in like a Logitech camera to my iMac Pro I figured that was the case it

00:16:12 ◼   ► would not gain that protection I just wondered because this monitor is so

00:16:16 ◼   ► clearly developed alongside Apple I wondered if it would benefit from from

00:16:21 ◼   ► that but I guess not yeah I believe that that's just like the internal routing

00:16:25 ◼   ► and stuff. That's a good question, though. It's really a question. See how much I know

00:16:28 ◼   ► about Macintosh computers that I would even throw that thing out there. I like I like

00:16:32 ◼   ► that you call the Macintoshes. Yeah, one upgrade is that this new 5k display now offers charging

00:16:39 ◼   ► over Thunderbolt three to 94 watts, which is higher than the current 15 inch MacBook

00:16:45 ◼   ► Pro requires. So wink, wink, nudge, nudge 16 inch MacBook Pro, I suppose. So plenty

00:16:51 ◼   ► of power out of this thing for a big 15 inch, you know, you can get into a situation with

00:16:54 ◼   ► these USB C Thunderbolt machines where your charger can't keep up with the power drain.

00:17:00 ◼   ► I have been having this exact problem and I was just about to go on a little rant here

00:17:04 ◼   ► but here we go anyway. Oh please. I have been trying to do some work from the sofa this

00:17:09 ◼   ► week on a MacBook Pro in logic I've been needed to do some editing but couldn't be at the

00:17:15 ◼   ► desk and I have a charger that I use for my iPad right like it's the iPad charger so I

00:17:21 ◼   ► plug it in and all it will do is just maintain battery level, right? And I find it so frustrating

00:17:28 ◼   ► because it's like that now the consumer has to be fully aware of the wattage power of

00:17:35 ◼   ► the thing that they're using, which has the exact same connection as all of the other

00:17:39 ◼   ► devices. It's so annoying that I have to do this. It's really nice, the idea of having

00:17:44 ◼   ► one cable to charge so many things, but then you need to be like, well, is it powerful

00:17:48 ◼   ► enough. Like you're not gonna know until you plug it in and then the battery

00:17:51 ◼   ► thing says "I'm not charging" and it's like oh god that is my... I'm done now.

00:17:57 ◼   ► No, it's super annoying. It's like the future is the idea of having the

00:18:01 ◼   ► one cable was great until it happened and then we all needed to think about

00:18:04 ◼   ► the wattage of our plugs. It's a bummer. I mean some of that was true like the

00:18:08 ◼   ► MagSafe days you're like 45 and 80 watt stuff but the way I got around it

00:18:12 ◼   ► when I had a 13-inch micro pro now I have the 15 so I had to go up to the higher

00:18:16 ◼   ► wattage and I just end up buying a second like an 87 watt charger to have

00:18:22 ◼   ► at my desk and have one in the bag so I didn't end up in that situation because

00:18:24 ◼   ► that's super annoying. Anyways this display can throw plenty of power around.

00:18:30 ◼   ► When this was announced it was kind of misunderstood as being a USB C display

00:18:40 ◼   ► with 5k resolution. So people were like oh the iPad Pro can drive it at 5k the

00:18:46 ◼   ► MacBook you know the dead 12 inch MacBook could drive it but that's really

00:18:51 ◼   ► not the case this continues to be a 5k Thunderbolt display and if you plug in

00:18:58 ◼   ► either a USB C only device so the iPad Pro the 12 inch MacBook or if you adapt

00:19:05 ◼   ► from Thunderbolt two up to Thunderbolt three with an adapter, you are limited to to 4k resolution,

00:19:13 ◼   ► it's still 60 hertz, but you were limited to 4k resolution. And so this is not a 5k USB C display

00:19:21 ◼   ► is a 5k Thunderbolt display with a 4k USB C fallback mode. I hate this. I hate this too.

00:19:29 ◼   ► It's very confusing because now we have two cables that look the same with the ports and everything.

00:19:34 ◼   ► So Federico, I'm confused. I thought, and I think maybe I'm wrong, I thought Apple

00:19:40 ◼   ► talked about 5k output with the iPad Pro. They did. They said that the iPad

00:19:46 ◼   ► Pro supported up to 5k display resolution on external monitors over

00:19:51 ◼   ► USB-C, but we still have to actually see a display that does this on the iPad Pro.

00:20:00 ◼   ► Because I bought the old ultrafine 4K because I knew that it was going to support 4K over

00:20:08 ◼   ► USB-C. I did not buy the older generation 5K because it was Thunderbolt only.

00:20:15 ◼   ► So I'm happy to see that Apple released a new version with USB-C, but I'm disappointed

00:20:21 ◼   ► by the fact that it's limited to 4K.

00:20:24 ◼   ► It's almost as if they promised 5K, but almost like the software doesn't support it.

00:20:32 ◼   ► Like I don't understand why, on one hand last November, last October, they said this device

00:20:38 ◼   ► supports up to 5K resolution, but then there's actually no display that does it.

00:20:44 ◼   ► I'm really intrigued to see what happens with the Apple Pro Display, what's it called, the

00:20:51 ◼   ► XDR?

00:20:53 ◼   ► Is it gonna have a USB-C mod for the iPad Pro?

00:20:57 ◼   ► Is it gonna support 4K, 5K or 6K for the iPad Pro?

00:21:01 ◼   ► In theory it should do 5K with some kind of letterboxing, I assume, or pillarboxing rather,

00:21:08 ◼   ► because the iPad Pro will not be able to fill the 6K resolution of the whole display.

00:21:14 ◼   ► But we still don't even know whether the Pro Display XDR supports the iPad Pro and USB-C

00:21:22 ◼   ► mode we don't know what it supports at all right like will it support the macbook pro

00:21:27 ◼   ► like there hasn't actually been anything official it seems i heard from uh you know second hand

00:21:34 ◼   ► source here he goes teachy-tit take this with a with a very very uh sizable grain of salt sort

00:21:44 ◼   ► of like a mine of salt like those crystals like those salt crystals like a very chunky

00:21:50 ◼   ► salt crystal. Like a thick salt crystal. But the Pro Display XDR was being tested with

00:22:01 ◼   ► support for the iPad Pro and even rotation, because you can rotate the Pro Display XDR

00:22:07 ◼   ► and mirroring via an iPad Pro would actually support that rotation of the display. So in

00:22:12 ◼   ► vertical mode and in portrait mode. There you go, Tipsters, write that up, make sure

00:22:17 ◼   ► you credit the show. That's all we asked for. No, no, really.

00:22:20 ◼   ► Oh, don't do it, sorry. Don't do it. I'm just going to say that I don't have the

00:22:23 ◼   ► same confidence in this as I had for the mouse support, for example. So it was just something

00:22:29 ◼   ► that came up in conversation. I would like to see a USB-C compatibility mode on the Pro

00:22:34 ◼   ► Display XDR. I'm not going to buy a Pro Display XDR because I don't need all of those features.

00:22:39 ◼   ► I'm not a video editor. But it would be nice to have it. I mean, if you have an iPad Pro.

00:22:46 ◼   ► Just drop a cool seven grand for a display for a $1200 iPad?

00:22:50 ◼   ► You really don't want to be in a situation where you buy the Pro Display XDR just as

00:22:55 ◼   ► an iPad Pro Display, I think.

00:22:58 ◼   ► Even though, you know, you can imagine.

00:23:01 ◼   ► That flex, though.

00:23:02 ◼   ► It's a pretty big flex.

00:23:03 ◼   ► Yeah, it will be quite a flex.

00:23:05 ◼   ► No, no, Apple said the iPads didn't bend.

00:23:07 ◼   ► That's a different thing.

00:23:08 ◼   ► Oh, God.

00:23:09 ◼   ► No, I thought they said they bended a little bit, but just within their expected tolerances.

00:23:13 ◼   ► Small flex, but okay.

00:23:15 ◼   ► More flex, but acceptable.

00:23:16 ◼   ► I have a question, Steven.

00:23:18 ◼   ► Yes.

00:23:19 ◼   ► What is the likelihood that the iMac Pro will be updated this year?

00:23:23 ◼   ► I don't keep up with the Xeon roadmap the way Marco does and some other people do.

00:23:27 ◼   ► My understanding, take this with a Xeon-sized grain of salt, is that...

00:23:33 ◼   ► That's a huge grain of salt!

00:23:35 ◼   ► Yeah, and it gets really hot.

00:23:37 ◼   ► Be careful.

00:23:38 ◼   ► It's a big, hot grain of salt.

00:23:41 ◼   ► (laughter)

00:23:43 ◼   ► I really like my salt as multi-threaded as possible.

00:23:48 ◼   ► I don't know if there's Xeon W chips

00:23:51 ◼   ► that are available to update the iMac Pro.

00:23:56 ◼   ► I would assume, though, that we would see one,

00:24:00 ◼   ► even if it's just sort of like a little bit

00:24:03 ◼   ► of a rearrangement, maybe by the end of the year

00:24:05 ◼   ► there are GPUs they could go to, faster GPUs now,

00:24:09 ◼   ► And it may be that the Xeons, again, this is not something I really give up with closely.

00:24:14 ◼   ► The Xeons that are in the Mac Pro may be applicable to the iMac Pro.

00:24:18 ◼   ► Don't quote me on that.

00:24:19 ◼   ► I'm not positive.

00:24:20 ◼   ► But I think at the very least there's room to go up in the GPU.

00:24:23 ◼   ► You know, they have lowered the prices on the SSD options, which is really nice.

00:24:28 ◼   ► The thing that still boggles my mind about the iMac Pro, we're off topic now, but the

00:24:33 ◼   ► The base iMac Pro is a better computer than the base Mac Pro, and I hope that if they

00:24:40 ◼   ► do update the iMac Pro line that it continues to be really good value.

00:24:44 ◼   ► You know, at $5,000 it is a very expensive computer, but for that $5,000 iMac Pro is

00:24:51 ◼   ► a lot, it's not as upgradeable or expandable obviously, but just in raw performance, I

00:24:57 ◼   ► think a better machine than the base model $6,000 Mac Pro is, plus you get a 5K display

00:25:02 ◼   ► thrown in that's not doesn't have an LG case around it so you know hopefully

00:25:07 ◼   ► this year to answer your question but I don't know for sure mm-hmm I can tell

00:25:11 ◼   ► you you know I'm coming up on a year and a half of ownership with this I got it

00:25:15 ◼   ► pretty early and I continue to genuinely enjoy using this computer yeah I just I

00:25:20 ◼   ► don't want to buy it like now and then it gets a it in March right but like I'm

00:25:26 ◼   ► my plan is I would like by the end of the year to update to an iMac Pro I have

00:25:31 ◼   ► made the final decision that the Mac Pro is not for me. Okay. I think Apple made

00:25:36 ◼   ► that decision when they announced it, right? Like, that wasn't for me. Yeah, the iMac Pro would be a great

00:25:40 ◼   ► computer for you. You're already in the iMac life, so you're kind of used to the

00:25:43 ◼   ► all-in-one, and it's way faster than your old 5k. And there's a family

00:25:47 ◼   ► member who needs a new iMac, so I was like, "Oh, okay, you keep yours

00:25:52 ◼   ► because I will be updating mine." But yeah, I want to go iMac Pro, but

00:25:58 ◼   ► I don't I'm kind of just like trying to hold

00:26:00 ◼   ► Basically, my plan is to hold until at least the Mac Pro is released, right?

00:26:06 ◼   ► Because that would be in theory when they would release an iMac Pro if there was an update I would assume

00:26:10 ◼   ► Yeah, or I think if you make it to the end of the year, I don't know. It's unproven, right? I mean really

00:26:16 ◼   ► I I really hope this is not the case. I'm not suggesting it is the case but like it is possible

00:26:20 ◼   ► The iMac Pro is a one-off. Yeah, there may never be another one again

00:26:24 ◼   ► But it seems unlikely because of the price gap but it does seem unlikely to me as well

00:26:28 ◼   ► If so, I don't know. I think it'll get data at some point, but I don't really know when

00:26:32 ◼   ► so

00:26:34 ◼   ► Can we get back to 5k and iPad pro support for a second? Mm-hmm?

00:26:37 ◼   ► Federico we I think you were starting down this road, but mm-hmm when you plug an iPad pro into a display

00:26:44 ◼   ► Yeah, a lot of apps just mirror, right? Yes, but there there are applications

00:26:48 ◼   ► Like I think is my node one of them or maybe there's a text editor where like you have you're working

00:26:54 ◼   ► Content on the iPad and the external display is like a preview of that content that sort of thing

00:26:58 ◼   ► Yes, some apps can support a second screen API

00:27:03 ◼   ► That's been around for several years at this point that allows them to output a secondary interface on an external display

00:27:11 ◼   ► Some games support this feature. For example real racing is one of them I think

00:27:17 ◼   ► apps include might know then working copy

00:27:22 ◼   ► they can provide you with a secondary UI

00:27:25 ◼   ► on the external monitor.

00:27:26 ◼   ► So for example, in my node,

00:27:28 ◼   ► you can have your iPad showing you one section of a map

00:27:32 ◼   ► and the external display showing you another section

00:27:34 ◼   ► of a map or in working copy,

00:27:36 ◼   ► you can have the text editor on the iPad and the preview,

00:27:39 ◼   ► like the rich text preview on the display.

00:27:42 ◼   ► And when they do, because of that API,

00:27:47 ◼   ► the preview, the secondary UI is not limited

00:27:51 ◼   ► to mirroring, meaning on my 4K display, for example,

00:27:56 ◼   ► when I use MindNode or when I use Working Copy,

00:28:00 ◼   ► the UI that I see on the display, on the external display,

00:28:03 ◼   ► does not have the pillar boxing

00:28:05 ◼   ► because it takes advantage of the full display

00:28:07 ◼   ► because those developers can say,

00:28:09 ◼   ► we can output a 4K version of this interface

00:28:13 ◼   ► on an external monitor.

00:28:14 ◼   ► Otherwise, when I go back to the home screen

00:28:16 ◼   ► or when I'm using any other app or feature on my iPad,

00:28:20 ◼   ► I see the black bars at the sides of the UI

00:28:24 ◼   ► with the mirroring going on center,

00:28:26 ◼   ► you know, at the center of the display.

00:28:28 ◼   ► So I'm curious to hear what happens

00:28:30 ◼   ► with this 5K ultrafine.

00:28:33 ◼   ► For apps that support the secondary screen API,

00:28:37 ◼   ► can they say, no, we actually want to output a 5K image

00:28:42 ◼   ► on a secondary monitor,

00:28:43 ◼   ► and can they actually take advantage

00:28:45 ◼   ► of the full resolution of that display

00:28:50 ◼   ► because if they have an iPad app

00:28:52 ◼   ► and the iPad Pro allows them to,

00:28:55 ◼   ► is this resolution that Apple put in this document

00:28:59 ◼   ► referring to the basic mirroring, or does it include,

00:29:03 ◼   ► so even if you are MindNode, for example,

00:29:05 ◼   ► can the developers of MindNode say,

00:29:07 ◼   ► no, we actually want to support 5K output

00:29:10 ◼   ► with our secondary screen API,

00:29:13 ◼   ► and you're gonna see a 5K image fill up the entire contents

00:29:16 ◼   ► of the Ultrafine 5K screen?

00:29:18 ◼   ► So that would be my question.

00:29:19 ◼   ► Like what happens if you're an iPad developer

00:29:23 ◼   ► and you're using the proper APIs,

00:29:25 ◼   ► can you actually support 5K or not?

00:29:28 ◼   ► So that I'm curious to hear.

00:29:30 ◼   ► - So maybe we'll get some follow up

00:29:31 ◼   ► if one of our listeners picks up this display.

00:29:34 ◼   ► David Sparks has been trying to talk me

00:29:35 ◼   ► into the two display lifestyle, but I just, I can't do it.

00:29:38 ◼   ► The iMac Pro's enough for me.

00:29:39 ◼   ► - It's a big display to have two of them.

00:29:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a lot of pixels.

00:29:44 ◼   ► All right, we have a couple of more tiny topics,

00:29:47 ◼   ► And then we have some shortcuts news.

00:29:51 ◼   ► And we have Apple's quarterly results, which we yesterday.

00:29:53 ◼   ► We're going to get into those as well.

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00:31:35 ◼   ► Gentlemen, listeners, I have some huge news.

00:31:38 ◼   ► Okay.

00:31:39 ◼   ► The Galaxy fold is coming.

00:31:42 ◼   ► All you haters who thought it wasn't going to happen.

00:31:45 ◼   ► It's happening.

00:31:46 ◼   ► another update from the world's greatest Apple podcast in which one host cannot stop talking

00:31:50 ◼   ► about folding phones made by other companies. Samsung themselves have announced officially

00:31:55 ◼   ► that the Galaxy Fold will be shipping in select markets in September. They in their post listed

00:32:01 ◼   ► a bunch of improvements that they've made to the design. So the previously peelable

00:32:05 ◼   ► top layer, do you remember like there was the top layer that everyone was pulling off

00:32:08 ◼   ► the phone, which was supposed to protect the phone and would in fact destroy the phone

00:32:12 ◼   ► if you took it off. They have now done the logical thing and extended this underneath

00:32:15 ◼   ► the bezel so it doesn't look like it can be peeled off anymore. They've added additional

00:32:20 ◼   ► reinforcements to the hinge to prevent particles from disrupting it from stuff getting inside

00:32:26 ◼   ► and if stuff does get inside the hinge like dust or crumbs or whatever they put metal layers under

00:32:31 ◼   ► display and reduce the amount of open space in general so stuff won't kind of get jammed

00:32:36 ◼   ► and they've added protection caps at the top and bottom of the hinge to again try and prevent

00:32:40 ◼   ► things from getting inside. They've made some user interface enhancements including, this is a quote,

00:32:46 ◼   ► it's my favorite thing, "Now with Galaxy Fold you can review charts while talking on a video call

00:32:51 ◼   ► and search information all at once." Which I just think it's brilliant. I just love that they've

00:32:55 ◼   ► called that specific thing out. I like that a lot. No word on the price. I saw some speculation that

00:33:02 ◼   ► the price may have changed, which would be interesting, right? Like that may, it could

00:33:06 ◼   ► change either way. Either the additional work that they've had to do could push the price up,

00:33:10 ◼   ► or because of its kind of like doomed fate they could have maybe brought the price down.

00:33:16 ◼   ► I would hope so.

00:33:17 ◼   ► The idea of September, I mean they're announcing it now, they'll probably have it shipping around

00:33:22 ◼   ► the same time that the Note 10 starts shipping, which these things are always in September, so

00:33:27 ◼   ► it's going to be an expensive September for me. I'm still buying it.

00:33:31 ◼   ► You're still in it.

00:33:32 ◼   ► I'm going to buy it.

00:33:33 ◼   ► You're still in.

00:33:33 ◼   ► I'm gonna buy it. Let me tell you the two reasons.

00:33:36 ◼   ► You know that you don't have to, right? Like we wouldn't hold it against you.

00:33:40 ◼   ► I want to and I'm going to tell you why I want to. I have two reasons why I want to.

00:33:44 ◼   ► Reason number one is all of the reviews that I've seen of this product say it's kind of bad

00:33:51 ◼   ► but I love it or I need it back again, right? Like all of the reviewers that I've seen,

00:33:56 ◼   ► those people that I trust are like there are some serious problems with this product

00:34:00 ◼   ► but I love it for reasons I can't explain and that is really intriguing to me because what about this

00:34:06 ◼   ► product in general makes people know it's bad but they really want to use it and I find that

00:34:12 ◼   ► an interesting thought and the second is... It's kind of like smoking basically it's a bad thing

00:34:17 ◼   ► but people want to do it? Sure. I'm not touching that one. The second part is who else in our kind

00:34:29 ◼   ► extended podcast universe is going to get one of these.

00:34:33 ◼   ► Nobody.

00:34:34 ◼   ► So I will at least be able to talk about something originally.

00:34:37 ◼   ► Like I will have a thing, I will know something about it.

00:34:40 ◼   ► This is, I think, still remains clearly the future of smartphones.

00:34:43 ◼   ► I would like to get the first one and so then I can start to have my

00:34:47 ◼   ► opinions on it and I can tell all of our connected listeners what I

00:34:50 ◼   ► think about the Galaxy Fold, whether they like it or not.

00:34:53 ◼   ► So they are my two main reasons why I still want to get this thing.

00:34:56 ◼   ► The other one is I am just genuinely really excited about it because I think it

00:34:59 ◼   ► looks cool as hell. It does look cool. That is your update. That is true. Okay.

00:35:06 ◼   ► Because I know this is one of those things that when I buy this, whenever I

00:35:09 ◼   ► go traveling and we see each other everyone's gonna go "you're gonna bring

00:35:11 ◼   ► it" because everyone wants to see it, right? Like if next time, like if I buy

00:35:15 ◼   ► this thing and then we're all gonna see each other a few months later you're

00:35:17 ◼   ► gonna want me to bring it with me. Yes. See? That's true. Because there is

00:35:22 ◼   ► something undeniably cool about it. Yeah, it's like I always travel with a Newton

00:35:26 ◼   ► but no one has to see it. Exactly. Yeah, that might tell you something about that. Maybe one day. Maybe one day.

00:35:32 ◼   ► But yeah, so there you go. September it seems. I mean, I have like 90% faith that it will ship, like the store apartment.

00:35:41 ◼   ► It's like, I don't know. But Samsung have not said anything official until now. This is their first official thing.

00:35:46 ◼   ► So we'll see, but I remain hopeful.

00:35:49 ◼   ► Do you think that it is actually the first of a movement? Like you still believe that or do you think this is a weird

00:35:55 ◼   ► Yes side thing that's gonna go away like 3d cameras on no

00:35:59 ◼   ► No

00:35:59 ◼   ► I I think that this I mean my kind of the the thing that I've been saying the whole time the thing that I believe

00:36:05 ◼   ► remains true is like this is the like logically or science fiction II which is the way that a lot of technology is

00:36:12 ◼   ► Decided anyway, right like the the imaginations that people have a limited to science fiction

00:36:16 ◼   ► This seems like the next logical thing right that you would have an adaptable screen because how if that works

00:36:24 ◼   ► Right, like imagine that working out how amazing is that that you could have a phone that could become a tablet?

00:36:29 ◼   ► We could have a big phone that could be half the size and be easier to use in certain

00:36:32 ◼   ► Circumstances like that idea is a good one

00:36:35 ◼   ► it is the only place that smartphones can go from here because

00:36:40 ◼   ► Smartphone design as we currently know it has effectively reached its end

00:36:46 ◼   ► because at this point

00:36:48 ◼   ► All it is is how much like as much screen as you can fill in the body, right?

00:36:52 ◼   ► Like there kind of really isn't any way you can go from there.

00:36:55 ◼   ► Like they've we're at the end of this, like the kind of the glass rectangle

00:36:59 ◼   ► as it is right now.

00:37:01 ◼   ► People will keep doing things, more cameras, different authentication.

00:37:04 ◼   ► But the overall design, the hardware design, we've kind of met the end of that.

00:37:08 ◼   ► And the next stage of that is like, well, how do we break outside

00:37:12 ◼   ► of the current form factor?

00:37:13 ◼   ► Well, we could have the screens fold.

00:37:15 ◼   ► And the fact that there were like five companies all working on this stuff

00:37:18 ◼   ► at the same time, I believe it is something that people are trying

00:37:21 ◼   ► of move towards but this is the very beginning of it right like the very beginning like there

00:37:26 ◼   ► were so many bad touch screen phones before the iPhone. The iPhone wasn't the first phone

00:37:33 ◼   ► for touch screen there were loads of them but they were bad they had lots of problems

00:37:38 ◼   ► but even then we knew that like this isn't good but it's clearly the future and I think

00:37:45 ◼   ► that about the Galaxy Fold and all this stuff like this isn't as good as it should be but

00:37:49 ◼   ► but it's clearly the future. That's my opinion on this. And it might be that like it's doomed

00:37:54 ◼   ► because we just can't do it until glass can fold. And if that's the case, then people

00:37:58 ◼   ► will keep trying to make foldable glass and we'll see where the future goes. But if the

00:38:01 ◼   ► technology can work out, even like a very basic level, I see this as being something

00:38:06 ◼   ► that all of these companies are going to start pouring more time and effort into.

00:38:09 ◼   ► I hope it works out. I hope they fixed it. If it fails again, it's over. You can't do

00:38:18 ◼   ► this twice. If it fails again the Galaxy Fold is dead. You know like Samsung, bless

00:38:23 ◼   ► them. They got to fold it up. No but there you go. Samsung have no shame with

00:38:28 ◼   ► things like this right? Like the notes are exploding on airplanes but they just

00:38:32 ◼   ► made a new one like they don't care. But like you know that they would if this

00:38:35 ◼   ► doesn't work they will just as you say fold it up they'll wrap it up put it

00:38:39 ◼   ► away and they'll try it again. We'll talk about the Galaxy Pixel 4. Oh and the Google Pixel 4.

00:38:42 ◼   ► Yes, what did I say? Galaxy? Yeah, that's Samsung. The Google Pixel 4. Google's doing

00:38:50 ◼   ► this wild thing where they're just telling people everything about the phone and even

00:38:54 ◼   ► though it hasn't been announced yet. They have shown the back camera module. Well, first

00:39:00 ◼   ► they just confirmed his existence and then they showed the back camera module. Now they're

00:39:04 ◼   ► showing face unlock and this weird gesture thing, which is, speaking of Samsung, very

00:39:11 ◼   ► Samsung, this woman waves her hand over the phone

00:39:14 ◼   ► and then the pages advance, whatever she's looking at.

00:39:18 ◼   ► Very strange.

00:39:19 ◼   ► Google has experimented with this before.

00:39:20 ◼   ► I believe they bought a company that was very influential

00:39:23 ◼   ► in early gestures and they use IR and other things

00:39:26 ◼   ► to track your hand movement and stuff.

00:39:28 ◼   ► The front camera system will include two IR cameras,

00:39:32 ◼   ► radar, dot projector, flood illuminator.

00:39:35 ◼   ► There's similar hardware as is in the iPhone 10

00:39:39 ◼   ► the iPad Pro and everything for Apple's face ID. And Google says it's going to be more

00:39:45 ◼   ► fluid though. So this is from a Mac rumors article, that when you reach for the pixel

00:39:52 ◼   ► for the face unlock sensors are activated. And the unlock sensor recognizes you and the

00:39:58 ◼   ► phone will open as you pick it up. So I think we've all experienced we pick your phone up

00:40:02 ◼   ► and there's like a pause and then it and then it opens. This seems to if it works the way

00:40:08 ◼   ► that it's being pitched, that that wouldn't be there.

00:40:10 ◼   ► You basically just pick up your phone,

00:40:11 ◼   ► it sees your face from any angle, and you're good to go.

00:40:15 ◼   ► This would be great.

00:40:16 ◼   ► And if Google has gotten this working

00:40:19 ◼   ► and it's more forgiving than Face ID,

00:40:22 ◼   ► that's good for everybody.

00:40:23 ◼   ► So it'll give Apple a benchmark.

00:40:25 ◼   ► - Google are also saying it'll work

00:40:26 ◼   ► in any orientation as well on the phone.

00:40:28 ◼   ► - Which the iPad does, but didn't come to the phone.

00:40:31 ◼   ► I would suspect that will come to the iPhone

00:40:32 ◼   ► at some point in the future, but--

00:40:34 ◼   ► - You'd expect so. - It hasn't.

00:40:35 ◼   ► - There's also, like Google have said,

00:40:37 ◼   ► in a kind of a blog post that accompanied this,

00:40:41 ◼   ► it's going to be all on device as well.

00:40:44 ◼   ► Yes, which they have to say, because they

00:40:46 ◼   ► do so much server processing.

00:40:48 ◼   ► People have trusted you with Google,

00:40:50 ◼   ► which is understandable.

00:40:52 ◼   ► This is so interesting to me.

00:40:54 ◼   ► Not the face unlock stuff, like this

00:40:55 ◼   ► is just going to be the new norm.

00:40:58 ◼   ► But the fact how they're rolling this out is really interesting.

00:41:03 ◼   ► Apple and other companies generally,

00:41:08 ◼   ► leaks happen, right?

00:41:10 ◼   ► But then Apple gets on stage or whoever,

00:41:11 ◼   ► Samsung gets on stage and says,

00:41:12 ◼   ► "This is the new phone, these are all the features."

00:41:15 ◼   ► Samsung has done a little bit of this sort of

00:41:19 ◼   ► like self-leaking with the new Note,

00:41:22 ◼   ► which is gonna be coming out pretty soon.

00:41:25 ◼   ► But this is a new move for Google.

00:41:27 ◼   ► And I'm curious what y'all think.

00:41:30 ◼   ► I think it's fascinating.

00:41:31 ◼   ► And I think it's a way to keep this phone in the conversation longer.

00:41:35 ◼   ► Because the fall is going to be flooded with iPhone news, Pixel news, Galaxy Note

00:41:40 ◼   ► news. We have a lot of phones.

00:41:42 ◼   ► We're right on the edge of phone season again.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And the Pixel 4 can be in multiple news cycles now.

00:41:48 ◼   ► Google doesn't sell a lot of these things.

00:41:50 ◼   ► I think if they want this to be successful, they just need to try new things to get

00:41:54 ◼   ► people's attention. I think this is a pretty good way to try doing that.

00:41:59 ◼   ► I think that there's always been an old argument of like, oh you can never talk about, was

00:42:04 ◼   ► it Moore's law?

00:42:05 ◼   ► Right?

00:42:06 ◼   ► Like, is it Moore's law?

00:42:07 ◼   ► Uh, what, the way you can't talk about a product beforehand.

00:42:10 ◼   ► No, that is Moore's law is like things get faster every time.

00:42:16 ◼   ► That is the Osborne effect.

00:42:18 ◼   ► The Osborne effect, that's it.

00:42:19 ◼   ► The Osborne computer company, right?

00:42:21 ◼   ► That's right.

00:42:22 ◼   ► The, the idea of like, oh you can't talk about a product when you, like it's going to replace

00:42:26 ◼   ► of a product because it means that you won't sell any more of the current one.

00:42:29 ◼   ► Who at this point doesn't know there's gonna be a new iPhone every September?

00:42:34 ◼   ► Who wants an iPhone? Who doesn't know this? Right? Like, the idea...

00:42:39 ◼   ► Even in iPhone sales you see every year this quarter they just ended is always

00:42:43 ◼   ► down before they sell new ones. Because everybody knows, like, the only people

00:42:46 ◼   ► getting them, people getting them on deals, are people that just don't care.

00:42:48 ◼   ► Right? So, like, if you care about the new iPhone you're not gonna buy an iPhone in

00:42:54 ◼   ► August, right? Like it's just not a thing that you would do. So there is an interesting argument to be made for like, well,

00:43:00 ◼   ► why not do this? You're ahead of the leaks,

00:43:02 ◼   ► you're, like the first time anyone's seen that the Google Pixel 4 is gonna have face unlock is by a

00:43:09 ◼   ► flashy promotional video that Google made.

00:43:11 ◼   ► So you are now running the PR on it again, because there's no leak to be made now. You made your little teaser.

00:43:17 ◼   ► It's an interesting, like, way of doing it,

00:43:21 ◼   ► And I don't think that the the argument of like you I know you said this but I don't believe you're making argument like oh

00:43:26 ◼   ► They sell none of them. Anyways, they can afford to do this. I don't think that that that really holds true anymore

00:43:31 ◼   ► Because we all know that there's a new phone. There's like there's gonna be a new galaxy in March or April

00:43:38 ◼   ► There's gonna be a new note in October. There's gonna be a new iPhone in September

00:43:41 ◼   ► Everybody knew there was going to be a pixel for buddy under a year like in September or October

00:43:45 ◼   ► Like everyone knows it if you're paying attention if you're not paying attention, you don't care

00:43:49 ◼   ► But anyway, I think that this is an interesting way of doing it. They're getting ahead of leaks

00:43:53 ◼   ► Nobody else is really trying it

00:43:55 ◼   ► Google is in the position where they can try things that that are against the established norms because they're operating at such a

00:44:01 ◼   ► Weakness right like against the against their competition

00:44:05 ◼   ► But they sell so many fewer funds than everybody else that they can maybe play around of what is expected to be the norm

00:44:11 ◼   ► I think that the gesture thing is stupid. I really want to see why anyone thinks that that's a good idea

00:44:16 ◼   ► I'm intrigued to see how they try and pitch that like

00:44:18 ◼   ► Why is it better to wave your hand in front of your phone and touch it?

00:44:22 ◼   ► Well, and Samsung has tried that sort of thing in the past and it's flopped

00:44:26 ◼   ► Well, I mean my expect my expectation of that is that this technology wasn't good

00:44:30 ◼   ► Like LG tried to do this once that more recently as well like but maybe with all of these different

00:44:35 ◼   ► Sensors that these phones having them now like it might work flawlessly, but like what's the point?

00:44:40 ◼   ► Even if it does work is anyone care like why do you need it?

00:44:46 ◼   ► That's why I really want to see what the reasoning is.

00:44:49 ◼   ► We've all been in a situation like we're cooking,

00:44:51 ◼   ► or we've washed our hands, our hands are wet,

00:44:52 ◼   ► we need to touch our phone, it doesn't work,

00:44:54 ◼   ► or we get water on our phone.

00:44:55 ◼   ► That's once a week or something, right?

00:44:57 ◼   ► That's not a reason to build a feature,

00:44:59 ◼   ► so I'm very curious to your point how they sell it.

00:45:01 ◼   ► And also, I just think that that technology

00:45:03 ◼   ► is better used in a different device than a phone.

00:45:08 ◼   ► Right, like it is better used in a--

00:45:10 ◼   ► It makes more sense for a computer.

00:45:12 ◼   ► A computer, a tablet, or something like an Echo Show.

00:45:15 ◼   ► right, where it's like it's looking at you anyway, right?

00:45:18 ◼   ► Like I think it makes more sense there.

00:45:20 ◼   ► Like even in the ad, the phone is like floating in midair.

00:45:22 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, if the phone was floating in midair in front of my face,

00:45:25 ◼   ► I might want to do this, but I'm holding it, right?

00:45:28 ◼   ► So like it doesn't I don't think it works the same way.

00:45:30 ◼   ► But I am really intrigued by Google's claims about their face unlocking,

00:45:35 ◼   ► because this feels like something that the leader in

00:45:39 ◼   ► in face recognition would probably be pretty good at.

00:45:43 ◼   ► Right. Like and I know that a lot of stuff is done

00:45:45 ◼   ► on servers for them, but they must have learned by now how to turn a lot of this stuff into

00:45:51 ◼   ► code that can live on a device, like algorithms that they can build.

00:45:55 ◼   ► So I'm super intrigued to see just how good it's going to be on the Pixel 4, because I

00:46:01 ◼   ► bet it's really good.

00:46:04 ◼   ► I would expect that the reason that they can do the Any Orientation thing on the phone,

00:46:09 ◼   ► and I don't know what the difference is, Apple's never said why the iPad can do it but the

00:46:13 ◼   ► iPhone can't.

00:46:14 ◼   ► But I would expect the reason that Google is able to do it is because they're just good

00:46:19 ◼   ► at the algorithms needed.

00:46:21 ◼   ► This is just the thing that they can do.

00:46:22 ◼   ► So it's just going to work for them.

00:46:24 ◼   ► This is the same company that runs a photo service that can recognize a child through

00:46:31 ◼   ► the various stages of their lives until that person is like 40.

00:46:37 ◼   ► In Google Photos you can do that and it's remarkable really.

00:46:40 ◼   ► I cannot use it in Italy due to European Union regulations, I think.

00:46:45 ◼   ► But I've seen, yeah, I think some of the features of face recognition in Google Photos, and

00:46:52 ◼   ► also on Facebook, due to EU laws, we cannot use them, but can be used in the United States.

00:47:01 ◼   ► So some of the more advanced face suggestions and sort of, I think, automatic naming, maybe,

00:47:07 ◼   ► of those features cannot, at least until last year, they couldn't be accessing the EU.

00:47:12 ◼   ► That might be for the best. You know, fine.

00:47:17 ◼   ► But I've seen examples on Twitter of people sharing screenshots of Google Photos, guessing

00:47:23 ◼   ► correctly that the child from 20 years ago is a person in their photo album now, and

00:47:29 ◼   ► it seems to be working, and it's quite impressive and kind of scary at the same time.

00:47:34 ◼   ► Anything else about phones, maybe other companies you want to talk about?

00:47:37 ◼   ► Tiktok are making a phone. I saw that that's gonna be an absolute disaster. Do you remember

00:47:42 ◼   ► a Facebook phone? Yeah wasn't it like a Huawei phone? Was it a Huawei phone? Yeah, yeah it

00:47:47 ◼   ► wasn't. None of these companies seem to make the phone actually make this stuff on their

00:47:51 ◼   ► own but MKBHD just did a video about the Redmi K20 Pro. This is one of the phones that I

00:47:59 ◼   ► wanted you to go look at in the Mi Store, Federico. And it looks like it's like this

00:48:04 ◼   ► crazy good phone for like $400. There's some real great value phones in Android

00:48:11 ◼   ► world now. It's really kind of amazing. So there you go. You wanted something else,

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00:49:51 ◼   ► all of relay FM. So we have a new iOS 13 beta it is developer beta five public beta four

00:50:00 ◼   ► and Federico, there's some stuff going on with shortcuts. What has happened?

00:50:04 ◼   ► Yeah, and this latest beta, Apple, has done the surprising move at this stage, I mean,

00:50:11 ◼   ► we're basically in August, of disabling a major feature of the new Shortcuts app, which

00:50:17 ◼   ► is built into the system. They have disabled the new automation feature that allows you

00:50:23 ◼   ► to run shortcuts by using various types of triggers. Those include schedules, or location

00:50:31 ◼   ► changes, or every time you open an app. That feature has been, according to some Apple

00:50:37 ◼   ► engineers on Twitter, temporarily disabled, and I think Apple also wrote this in the release

00:50:43 ◼   ► notes for this beta. In addition to the automation tab being gone from the shortcuts app, Apple

00:50:50 ◼   ► is also removed for now the ability to run shortcuts as part of HomeKit automations.

00:50:57 ◼   ► So in the Home app, it used to be that until Beta 4, you could create a shortcut using

00:51:02 ◼   ► the Shortcuts Editor, but inside the Home app, that feature is also being removed for

00:51:07 ◼   ► now. They say that it will be back. My understanding is that it will be back in this Beta cycle.

00:51:15 ◼   ► So it should be in the public release of 13.0.

00:51:22 ◼   ► So not 13.1, not 13.2, but in September, if it comes out in September, I don't even know.

00:51:29 ◼   ► It seems to me that it's unusual for Apple to do this in early August, to pull a major

00:51:36 ◼   ► feature.

00:51:37 ◼   ► This is one of the major features of the new shortcuts app.

00:51:40 ◼   ► And to say that it'll be back, it's been temporarily disabled, it feels kind of late for that.

00:51:45 ◼   ► And considering the general state of iOS 13,

00:51:50 ◼   ► it's not the most stable beta that we've had so far.

00:51:54 ◼   ► Folks have had all kinds of issues related to iCloud Drive,

00:51:58 ◼   ► for example, and iCloud Sync.

00:52:00 ◼   ► And I still get the occasional springboard crash,

00:52:04 ◼   ► for example.

00:52:05 ◼   ► Apple is still changing,

00:52:08 ◼   ► and we're gonna talk about it in a few minutes.

00:52:10 ◼   ► New features and new design,

00:52:11 ◼   ► like the share sheet, for example,

00:52:13 ◼   ► It feels like a different beta cycle.

00:52:16 ◼   ► Yeah, multitasking just flat out doesn't work in a lot of places.

00:52:21 ◼   ► Like, you can't...

00:52:23 ◼   ► You cannot, in any way, take an app from the home screen

00:52:28 ◼   ► and put it into multitasking.

00:52:30 ◼   ► Most of the time, apps from Spotlight don't work.

00:52:33 ◼   ► I can't drag them into multitasking.

00:52:35 ◼   ► There is a lot of just like fundamental stuff still broken in Beo5.

00:52:41 ◼   ► It really makes you wonder if this is an OS that can have a GM in a month.

00:52:46 ◼   ► Like, I struggle to imagine how...

00:52:49 ◼   ► Well, like, they can.

00:52:52 ◼   ► Like, when I say they can, I'm not saying it will be fixed.

00:52:56 ◼   ► But like, they have done stuff like this before, right?

00:52:59 ◼   ► Where it's like, well, it shipped and it wasn't good, but they shipped it anyway, because

00:53:03 ◼   ► what are you going to do?

00:53:04 ◼   ► They've got to ship it.

00:53:05 ◼   ► But they're making the promise that iOS 13 continues down the road of stability of iOS

00:53:11 ◼   ► So they're making a big deal out of performance and stability publicly on the website in the

00:53:17 ◼   ► you know in the in the features page on apple.com. They've set it on stage. So it's not like

00:53:22 ◼   ► I got the best part of two months. Like, you know, it's not impossible to fix. In any case,

00:53:27 ◼   ► I'm really I'm really bummed that this feature was removed because I was using it a lot,

00:53:32 ◼   ► especially for NFC NFC stickers in the shortcuts app. I think I've talked about it before I

00:53:39 ◼   ► I have a bunch of stickers all over my apartment that are now useless for now because my phone

00:53:45 ◼   ► was upgraded to beta 5 and now the stickers are just...

00:53:48 ◼   ► I thought it was just the creation of them, it's actually also if you're using any they

00:53:52 ◼   ► also die.

00:53:53 ◼   ► Oh yeah, the whole feature is gone.

00:53:58 ◼   ► And also I was relying on it as part of my new HomeKit automations for sending me notifications

00:54:06 ◼   ► and running shortcuts within the Home app.

00:54:08 ◼   ► I left one of my testing devices, the 11-inch iPad Pro, on beta 4.

00:54:14 ◼   ► And because it's an iPad, it can also work as a HomeKit hub.

00:54:18 ◼   ► And therefore, I've confirmed that if you leave beta 4 on that device, on any device

00:54:23 ◼   ► that you have, those automations will keep working.

00:54:26 ◼   ► So my HomeKit automations are working because they're going directly to that iPad Pro running

00:54:31 ◼   ► beta 4.

00:54:32 ◼   ► So it's running that code because it's still there.

00:54:36 ◼   ► It's still possible.

00:54:38 ◼   ► But of course with my iPad Pro I cannot use NFC automation for example, or location changes,

00:54:44 ◼   ► because I go around town with my phone or with my iPad.

00:54:49 ◼   ► So at least the HomeKit stuff I can still use personally, because I have an iPad on

00:54:53 ◼   ► beta 4, and I'll probably leave beta 4 installed until the feature is back.

00:54:58 ◼   ► But otherwise it was really surprising to me to see this feature just being disabled.

00:55:06 ◼   ► "beta 5 disabled until further notice". That's very surprising to me. I don't recall an instance

00:55:13 ◼   ► of this happening before. And that, again, personally speaking, has forced me to revise my

00:55:18 ◼   ► writing plans for the review. So I'm skipping the shortcuts chapter for now and going directly into

00:55:24 ◼   ► the iPad chapter, which was in my outline, in my notes, was after shortcuts, but I don't want to

00:55:30 ◼   ► write about shortcuts until the feature is back and I want to see what it's like. I made the same

00:55:35 ◼   ► decision for the sharesheet and that paid off quite well because the sharesheet is entirely

00:55:41 ◼   ► new in beta 5.

00:55:42 ◼   ► Thankfully.

00:55:43 ◼   ► I think we complained about the sharesheet here on the show before, but basically...

00:55:47 ◼   ► And on adapt as well.

00:55:49 ◼   ► And on adapt.

00:55:50 ◼   ► You were talking about on adapt.

00:55:51 ◼   ► Yes.

00:55:52 ◼   ► So the changes in beta 5 don't make it perfect.

00:55:55 ◼   ► There's still a few things that I would like to see, but I think it's much, much better

00:55:58 ◼   ► than before.

00:55:59 ◼   ► Essentially, you now have three sections in this.

00:56:03 ◼   ► Well, you have the new share sheet as the top rows

00:56:07 ◼   ► with the horizontal scrolling icons.

00:56:10 ◼   ► One for contacts, the other for share extensions.

00:56:14 ◼   ► The bottom section, so the actions,

00:56:18 ◼   ► that's now organized in three subsections.

00:56:22 ◼   ► You have your favorite actions,

00:56:25 ◼   ► you have the app-specific actions,

00:56:28 ◼   ► and you have everything else.

00:56:29 ◼   ► So the app specific actions would be,

00:56:32 ◼   ► for example, in Safari, you have an action called

00:56:35 ◼   ► add bookmark or find on page.

00:56:39 ◼   ► Those actions are specific to the Safari browser.

00:56:42 ◼   ► The Twitter app, for example, as copy link

00:56:44 ◼   ► or open in Safari.

00:56:46 ◼   ► Each app tends to have its own,

00:56:48 ◼   ► they're called activity items.

00:56:50 ◼   ► Each app tends to have its own.

00:56:51 ◼   ► So it's good to have a section just for that.

00:56:54 ◼   ► I would like to see, however, some kind of text label

00:56:58 ◼   ► that says these are Safari actions

00:57:00 ◼   ► or these are Twitter actions to sort of make it more clear,

00:57:04 ◼   ► but I can leave without one.

00:57:06 ◼   ► You can pin all kinds of actions,

00:57:08 ◼   ► whether they are third-party extensions or shortcuts

00:57:11 ◼   ► or app-specific actions to the very top

00:57:15 ◼   ► of the share sheet now,

00:57:16 ◼   ► so you can, and you can mix and match between them.

00:57:19 ◼   ► So for example, right now in Safari,

00:57:21 ◼   ► I have the very top copy,

00:57:23 ◼   ► which copies the link of the current webpage.

00:57:26 ◼   ► That's a Safari action.

00:57:27 ◼   ► I have the 1Password extension, and I have LinkedPost, which is my shortcut that prepares

00:57:34 ◼   ► a LinkedPost template in my text editor. So you can put all kinds of actions up there

00:57:38 ◼   ► for easier access. And finally, at the bottom, you have everything else that includes all

00:57:43 ◼   ► other actions, all other extensions, and all your other shortcuts.

00:57:48 ◼   ► It's still kind of weird how you actually manage these actions. There's a strange mismatch

00:57:55 ◼   ► of plus buttons and toggles and handles.

00:58:00 ◼   ► Like there's lots of ways to enable and disable

00:58:03 ◼   ► these actions and rearrange them.

00:58:05 ◼   ► Sometimes you tap on a plus button

00:58:08 ◼   ► and it adds it to the top.

00:58:10 ◼   ► Sometimes you tap on the plus button

00:58:13 ◼   ► and it does something else,

00:58:15 ◼   ► but then you can also enable and disable with the switch.

00:58:17 ◼   ► The UI to manage your actions is kinda confusing for now.

00:58:22 ◼   ► But really my main problem

00:58:24 ◼   ► that I think I also brought up the last time,

00:58:26 ◼   ► is the cognitive load required to visually scan

00:58:31 ◼   ► through all of these actions.

00:58:33 ◼   ► And my problem is the fact that the text label is

00:58:36 ◼   ► on the left side, and the icon for each action

00:58:40 ◼   ► is all the way to the right.

00:58:42 ◼   ► So my eyes have to scan an entire line to see,

00:58:45 ◼   ► OK, this is at bookmark.

00:58:47 ◼   ► And then I have to travel with my eyes to the right side

00:58:50 ◼   ► and see the bookmark icon.

00:58:52 ◼   ► And that's not just how I think humans work,

00:58:56 ◼   ► in the sense of seeing a text label right next to an icon.

00:59:00 ◼   ► That is so much easier in terms of being

00:59:02 ◼   ► able to scan information and digest information.

00:59:05 ◼   ► Imagine if you were traveling, you were driving,

00:59:08 ◼   ► and you had a sign on the left side of the road

00:59:11 ◼   ► and a text message, like stop or something else.

00:59:17 ◼   ► Usually you have indications related

00:59:19 ◼   ► to the sign on the complete opposite end of the other sign.

00:59:24 ◼   ► That would be inefficient.

00:59:27 ◼   ► So that's why on roads you tend to have,

00:59:29 ◼   ► if a sign requires additional text information,

00:59:32 ◼   ► they are placed next to each other

00:59:34 ◼   ► or with one directly below the other.

00:59:37 ◼   ► And that's what I would do.

00:59:38 ◼   ► I would put the icons, I would put the glyphs

00:59:41 ◼   ► directly on the left of the text label.

00:59:43 ◼   ► 'Cause right now it just seems wildly inefficient

00:59:46 ◼   ► to have text on one side and icons on the other.

00:59:49 ◼   ► And also I wouldn't mind some color.

00:59:52 ◼   ► It's all, it used to be blue before.

00:59:56 ◼   ► I think now the new share sheet is black and white,

01:00:00 ◼   ► the bottom section at least.

01:00:01 ◼   ► You have black icons and black text and a white background.

01:00:05 ◼   ► And I mean, sure, but really, especially for my shortcuts.

01:00:09 ◼   ► My shortcuts have colors in the app

01:00:11 ◼   ► and I would like to see those colors in here.

01:00:13 ◼   ► But I guess that app will--

01:00:14 ◼   ► - I love my colorful shortcuts.

01:00:15 ◼   ► - I do as well, except that I used to prefer

01:00:18 ◼   ► the older colors, which were brighter and funnier and more vibrant. The new ones are...

01:00:25 ◼   ► huh? Don't want to talk about them?

01:00:28 ◼   ► They're pretty dull. They're muted, aren't they?

01:00:30 ◼   ► Some people are saying, "Well, it works better for dark mode." Well, just make them dull

01:00:34 ◼   ► for dark mode then. Don't change them. Apple is doing this for dark mode and light mode.

01:00:40 ◼   ► So, they could do the same for shortcuts. Anyway, overall, thumbs up. They're going

01:00:45 ◼   ► in the right direction.

01:00:47 ◼   ► The placement of the icons still leaves a lot to be desired,

01:00:51 ◼   ► but I think they're getting there.

01:00:52 ◼   ► Slowly, but they're getting there.

01:00:53 ◼   ► - Can you add emoji to shortcut names?

01:00:57 ◼   ► Does that populate in this?

01:01:01 ◼   ► - Let's see.

01:01:01 ◼   ► Well, you can add names, last time I checked,

01:01:06 ◼   ► but do they show up?

01:01:07 ◼   ► That's a good real-time follow-up.

01:01:09 ◼   ► Let's see, do they show up in the share sheet?

01:01:11 ◼   ► - That's also a good solution, too.

01:01:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause you get around the icons

01:01:15 ◼   ► being on the wrong side. So if I add an Apple watch emoji to this shortcut, my theory is

01:01:20 ◼   ► it doesn't show up. Let's see if I'm right or wrong. It does show up, so I'm wrong. So

01:01:25 ◼   ► that's nice. It shows up. So you could use, uh, really, you know, I was thinking about

01:01:30 ◼   ► this today. There should be, and I'm filing an official complaint to Jeremy Bird, there

01:01:36 ◼   ► should be more color dot emoji. There aren't enough color dots. Like I think there's only

01:01:44 ◼   ► like a red dot, maybe a black dot, and like a blue square and an orange square.

01:01:51 ◼   ► But sometimes I just want to use colors for something that I despise, not necessarily

01:01:56 ◼   ► that I love. I kind of want to put hearts next to my text documents. Like, I don't

01:02:03 ◼   ► love taxes. Why should I put a heart next to them? I just want a colored indicator.

01:02:08 ◼   ► So there should be more colored dots. Either circles or squares will be fine. Triangles

01:02:12 ◼   ► will be interesting, but I would prefer a circle, personally. So Jeremy, get on that, please.

01:02:18 ◼   ► Yeah, there's only like a white, a black, a red, and a blue in dots.

01:02:22 ◼   ► Like, there should be more, you know, rainbow representation in emoji.

01:02:28 ◼   ► That being said, again, the sharesheet, they're slowly fixing whatever they did with the first

01:02:36 ◼   ► version in the first four betas. They're getting there. Overall I'm a big fan of the top section

01:02:43 ◼   ► of the sharesheet. It works really well. Everything else, we'll see where they land.

01:02:47 ◼   ► The sweet solution is once again a sweet solution, maybe sweeter than it ever was. It's really

01:02:52 ◼   ► interesting, I saw this from your co-host Ryan who also works at MacStories, Federico,

01:02:58 ◼   ► that apps that can be... I don't know what an app has to do exactly to be able to be

01:03:04 ◼   ► included into this but apps that would donate like an app icon if sorry websites

01:03:10 ◼   ► that would donate like an app icon if you save them to the home screen and I

01:03:15 ◼   ► go through that whole thing stuff like Instagram and Twitter if you save those

01:03:19 ◼   ► now to the home screen and then open them again they look like apps it gets

01:03:25 ◼   ► rid of all the Safari Chrome and they show up in like multitasking with the

01:03:30 ◼   ► name of the website as if it was an application. So Instagram for iPad, I mean Instagram's

01:03:37 ◼   ► web view is pretty good anyway, but now it feels more like an app than it ever has. I

01:03:42 ◼   ► mean you can't post photos, but you can at least browse really nicely.

01:03:48 ◼   ► Allow me to have a brief teachy-teaches segment here. So these are called progressive web

01:03:55 ◼   ► apps, or PWA. And there was some confusion surrounding Ryan's tweet. That tweet was very

01:04:03 ◼   ► successful, but unfortunately the feature is not new in iOS 13. Apple has been making

01:04:09 ◼   ► these improvements, and Ryan actually issued a correction afterwards. But still, let me

01:04:14 ◼   ► talk about it so that we all know more about this feature. Apple has been steadily improving

01:04:20 ◼   ► progressive web apps. Since iOS 12.2, I think, those improvements include things like the

01:04:28 ◼   ► custom icon that you see in the app switcher, the full screen UI that does not show you

01:04:34 ◼   ► a Safari toolbar, state restoration for actually showing you the last screen you used when

01:04:43 ◼   ► you open the multitasking switcher, the web share API, which is a web API that allows

01:04:50 ◼   ► web apps to bring up the system share sheet, even though you didn't actually tap the share

01:04:55 ◼   ► sheet icon. You have a bunch of CSS improvements. You have support for the keyboard color picker.

01:05:03 ◼   ► It's literally a color picker in the Apple system keyboard. So there's a bunch of improvements

01:05:08 ◼   ► that Apple brought last year. With iOS 13, I think they are making even more improvements

01:05:15 ◼   ► to progressive web apps. If I'm not mistaken, I think you should be able to use them in

01:05:22 ◼   ► SplitView, and I think if you're a developer you should be able to inspect with the web

01:05:29 ◼   ► development tool those web apps. And there's something else that I'm forgetting right now,

01:05:35 ◼   ► really the main improvements that Ryan mentioned were from last year. That said,

01:05:40 ◼   ► Apple is still bringing more enhancements to progressive web apps in 13. And you can test

01:05:47 ◼   ► these types of, like, sort of richer web apps with Twitter, with Instagram, with Pinterest,

01:05:54 ◼   ► I think with Uber maybe, or something else. I guess the goal is to sort of replicate the

01:06:02 ◼   ► experience of a native app but with a web app so you just go to the website to

01:06:07 ◼   ► a website and you add it to your home screen and it's sort of like having a

01:06:11 ◼   ► real app it's really not like having a real app for you know the simple reason

01:06:18 ◼   ► that on iOS at least web technologies do not advance at the same

01:06:24 ◼   ► pace as system technologies so for example PWAs are getting split view

01:06:31 ◼   ► support now, but Spillview actually came out in iOS 9, to give an example. So it's a good

01:06:36 ◼   ► way to replace or to use something like Instagram that doesn't have a native client on iPad.

01:06:43 ◼   ► Now if you actually save the Safari web app to your home screen, it's sort of like having

01:06:49 ◼   ► a real app, but it's not, because it's not built with an actual native SDK. Still, it's

01:06:57 ◼   ► It's a very nice improvement. Just the things that Ryan mentioned came out last year. And

01:07:04 ◼   ► if you've never tried it before, go to a popular website, try to add it to your home screen,

01:07:09 ◼   ► and you will notice that when you launch it, it will not take you to Safari, it will take

01:07:13 ◼   ► you to a full screen view that sort of behaves like a real app.

01:07:17 ◼   ► Even if it is existing, it's something I didn't know anything about, and it's super useful.

01:07:21 ◼   ► Yeah. So people should know about it.

01:07:23 ◼   ► So you can still be happy about it, even though it's not new.

01:07:26 ◼   ► This could have been one of those tweets where it's like, "Hey, did you know your iPhone

01:07:29 ◼   ► could do this?" and then it gets like 75 million retweets.

01:07:32 ◼   ► Yes.

01:07:33 ◼   ► Yes.

01:07:34 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:07:35 ◼   ► Could have been one of those.

01:07:36 ◼   ► So close, Ryan.

01:07:37 ◼   ► Could have been one of those.

01:07:38 ◼   ► Let's talk about quarterly results.

01:07:39 ◼   ► Okay.

01:07:40 ◼   ► Apple made some money, made it in some interesting ways.

01:07:42 ◼   ► We've got a bunch of links in the show notes.

01:07:45 ◼   ► I like how you say that, like interesting ways, like they did something they shouldn't have

01:07:48 ◼   ► done.

01:07:49 ◼   ► Tim Cook's lemonade stand really turned an impressive profit.

01:07:52 ◼   ► Warren Buffett, the sort of newspapers.

01:07:55 ◼   ► The company generated $53.8 billion in revenue up 1% over the year ago quarter.

01:08:02 ◼   ► It was, by just a tiny hair, the third largest quarter in Apple history.

01:08:08 ◼   ► Mac revenue was up 11%, iPad up 8%, services up 13%, wearables up 68%.

01:08:16 ◼   ► Can I give you a correction?

01:08:17 ◼   ► It was the third, I think, the largest third quarter, not the third largest quarter.

01:08:23 ◼   ► Oh, the largest third quarter.

01:08:25 ◼   ► Huge difference. Yeah, no one cares about the third quarter. No because it's the quarter. Yeah. Okay. Thank you

01:08:31 ◼   ► Wearables up 68% iPhone was down

01:08:34 ◼   ► 12% I will get to the iPhone

01:08:38 ◼   ► Services an all-time high of 11.5 billion. Of course. This is before

01:08:42 ◼   ► Apple arcade

01:08:45 ◼   ► Apple TV plus any podcast move these things aren't here yet, right? This is Apple music Apple care news

01:08:53 ◼   ► News plus I didn't mention news that day in the quotes didn't mention that one

01:08:57 ◼   ► It's the hundreds of people who were in news plus

01:09:01 ◼   ► accidentally

01:09:03 ◼   ► Accidentally forgot to turn off their their subscription

01:09:05 ◼   ► They said that they've surpassed four hundred and twenty million paid subscriptions

01:09:11 ◼   ► Which is like

01:09:14 ◼   ► That's a number of people that is big

01:09:16 ◼   ► I don't it's unclear to me if what counts as like paid subscriptions. Like I said just

01:09:23 ◼   ► Apple Music, but you can pay for Apple Care monthly.

01:09:25 ◼   ► You can also pay for your iPhone monthly.

01:09:27 ◼   ► Does that get rolled into this?

01:09:28 ◼   ► I think it's all of it, right?

01:09:29 ◼   ► - Here's the thing.

01:09:30 ◼   ► Yeah, because they want this number to look good.

01:09:32 ◼   ► That is everything.

01:09:33 ◼   ► If you give money to Apple for anything

01:09:35 ◼   ► on a recurring basis, or you buy something

01:09:38 ◼   ► that lasts for a year or whatever, like Apple Care,

01:09:41 ◼   ► or actually you don't keep paying them for Apple Care,

01:09:43 ◼   ► but you do it once, they will count that in this number

01:09:45 ◼   ► because they need this number to look as good as it can.

01:09:47 ◼   ► It's not a lie, right?

01:09:48 ◼   ► But like, they will pump it up of everything.

01:09:51 ◼   ► Because I mean who would really say that Apple Care is a subscription? No one's thinking

01:09:57 ◼   ► about Apple Care as a subscription, right? But like they are including it in that number.

01:10:01 ◼   ► They also talked about Apple Pay. They are completing nearly 1 billion transactions per

01:10:06 ◼   ► month which is twice the volume of a year ago apparently. They are now have completed

01:10:12 ◼   ► their coverage in the European Union. They're in now 47 markets and they threw PayPal. This

01:10:20 ◼   ► shade PayPal's way. Based on June quarter performance, Apple Pay is now adding more

01:10:25 ◼   ► new users than PayPal and monthly transaction volume is growing four times as fast.

01:10:31 ◼   ► I don't know why this should be a surprise. PayPal has been around for like 20 years.

01:10:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:37 ◼   ► It doesn't make it. It's like, yeah, okay, like, you're growing. Congratulations, right?

01:10:42 ◼   ► Like it's sure. I mean, I understand why they do this. But like, it's the logic of it. It's

01:10:48 ◼   ► weird. It fails at the logic.

01:10:50 ◼   ► You want to tell us about the iPhone?

01:10:51 ◼   ► 48% of revenue.

01:10:53 ◼   ► So it's this is the overall revenue.

01:10:56 ◼   ► So if you imagine all the money Apple makes, the iPhone is now less than half.

01:11:01 ◼   ► It has not been this way for a very long time.

01:11:04 ◼   ► iPhone revenue was down 12% from last year, but it is a significant improvement

01:11:12 ◼   ► to the previous decline that they've seen.

01:11:15 ◼   ► So like the decline in this quarter wasn't as bad as the decline in the last quarter.

01:11:20 ◼   ► So that's I suppose a good thing.

01:11:23 ◼   ► Tim Cook specifically called out the fact that the in-store trade-in and financing programs

01:11:29 ◼   ► have been doing good for Apple, which you'd expect considering how heavily they push it.

01:11:33 ◼   ► Very.

01:11:33 ◼   ► I saw Mark Gurman tweeting that Apple is promoting a buy one, get one free on the

01:11:39 ◼   ► iPhone XR at the moment, which is just like a hilarious thing to see in an Apple store.

01:11:44 ◼   ► Then they talk about the fact that, you know, it's like, satisfaction's great in all of our markets and all-time highs.

01:11:53 ◼   ► The news here is the fact that the iPhone is 48% of the revenue.

01:11:57 ◼   ► And you can, there are a couple of different ways to slice this.

01:12:00 ◼   ► You can either show like, that's not good, right?

01:12:04 ◼   ► Like, because Apple is the iPhone company.

01:12:07 ◼   ► Or you can say, oh this is interesting, their other products can hold them up now.

01:12:12 ◼   ► So yeah, there are arguments to be made for both of those things

01:12:15 ◼   ► Because they didn't actually have a revenue decline they had but what they had was steady revenue

01:12:21 ◼   ► Which they also don't want but there wasn't a revenue decline and the Mac the iPad services and wearables were all up

01:12:28 ◼   ► Therefore showing that even when the iPhone is starting to decline Apple is able to keep revenue at least

01:12:34 ◼   ► Steady now based upon the improvements that they're making in other areas

01:12:38 ◼   ► This is not a good news story, but it is not a bad news story

01:12:43 ◼   ► Well, they just continue to to go down the evolution of being a services company

01:12:48 ◼   ► And we're gonna talk about wearables like it takes a lot of air pods equal the revenue of a single iPhone

01:12:53 ◼   ► But clearly there, you know these other

01:12:55 ◼   ► sections of the company are doing really well, so

01:12:57 ◼   ► It is strange. I

01:13:00 ◼   ► Kind of from like the product perspective like this news that the iPhone is is you know

01:13:07 ◼   ► now less than half of their revenue because it feels like okay maybe they

01:13:11 ◼   ► can spread some attention to other things like that they realize other

01:13:14 ◼   ► things are need to pull more weight so clearly that services right now but if

01:13:20 ◼   ► there's other hardware in the future that I think could pick up some of the

01:13:24 ◼   ► slack I kind of think that maybe they would think it's just services I don't

01:13:28 ◼   ► think really like if you look at the pure revenue numbers they can make

01:13:32 ◼   ► significant gains in any of those singular categories I know you're

01:13:35 ◼   ► into the Mac to really hold up what they're dropping in iPhone. No, no, I actually want

01:13:39 ◼   ► to think about future things like AR glasses or whatever's next. Sure, sure, that's wearables,

01:13:44 ◼   ► right? I know you're not saying that, but it's like that's good stuff that goes into the wearables

01:13:47 ◼   ► category. This is why they are looking, right? Because I think that what Tim Cook and Luca are

01:13:51 ◼   ► probably very aware of is all they're doing right now is chasing the next golden egg, because

01:13:56 ◼   ► services, they will run out, right? Like you only have so far before you've got all your customers,

01:14:03 ◼   ► right? So that's gonna, this is a greatly growing thing for them right now, but you will hit a

01:14:09 ◼   ► saturation point there as well. So what they need is a new big product, right? Apple Watch ain't it,

01:14:16 ◼   ► right? AirPods ain't it. Both successful, but they don't make them enough money. They're not even not

01:14:20 ◼   ► selling enough Apple Watches and AirPods aren't expensive enough. So there is going to be another

01:14:25 ◼   ► thing you would expect, at least that's probably what Apple are working on, and then they just

01:14:30 ◼   ► haven't found it yet. I think they were probably hoping to find it before they

01:14:34 ◼   ► got into this position with the iPhone. I think it's been very clear that Apple

01:14:38 ◼   ► was taken by surprise with the iPhone X and we're in the fallout of

01:14:43 ◼   ► that but I expect that they thought it was going to continue to do gangbusters

01:14:48 ◼   ► for them until they were ready with their Apple product but then not so much.

01:14:52 ◼   ► So they're continuing to push the services narrative which was already a

01:14:54 ◼   ► thing they were working on anyway but they're at a point I think where they've

01:14:59 ◼   ► been caught by surprise with their main hardware product, not meeting the excitement that they

01:15:06 ◼   ► were hoping for, I think.

01:15:08 ◼   ► Let's talk about wearables.

01:15:10 ◼   ► So it's sensational quarter is the text label we got for the Bezos graph this time, with

01:15:16 ◼   ► growth accelerating to well over 50%, 50% of what or from where?

01:15:21 ◼   ► No one knows because we don't have numbers on this stuff.

01:15:24 ◼   ► But they said that the June quarter revenue record was set for the Apple Watch this time

01:15:30 ◼   ► around.

01:15:31 ◼   ► 75% of customers buying the Apple Watch in the June quarter were buying their first Apple

01:15:37 ◼   ► Watch.

01:15:38 ◼   ► I found that--

01:15:39 ◼   ► This statistic is always so crazy to me, because I feel like we hear that statistic a lot,

01:15:43 ◼   ► like for the Apple Watch and for the iPad.

01:15:46 ◼   ► And it's so confusing to me, because it's like, how then?

01:15:50 ◼   ► You know, it also seems so strange that you'd expect there would be way more people that

01:15:53 ◼   ► own them. I think Apple use this statistic in products that don't have a

01:15:59 ◼   ► good refresh rate, right? So like they use this as a way to

01:16:07 ◼   ► show when people aren't buying a new Apple watch every year, right? So people

01:16:12 ◼   ► hold on to Apple watch for a while so this statistic is accurate but sounds

01:16:16 ◼   ► good. Where maybe for the iPhone that number isn't so good because people buy

01:16:21 ◼   ► new iPhones. Or, I mean it may be about that, what I think about is just that it

01:16:28 ◼   ► is a younger product and people are continuing to be introduced to it for

01:16:33 ◼   ► the first time. Right, but they used to say this about the iPad until the iPad

01:16:38 ◼   ► started to turn around again. They used to say like, "Oh, and 60% were new to iPad,"

01:16:44 ◼   ► right? And it was just like a way to make it sound good? I don't know. Yeah, I don't

01:16:49 ◼   ► We're not financial analysts.

01:16:52 ◼   ► We're just talking.

01:16:53 ◼   ► - I am. - Okay.

01:16:54 ◼   ► I will say that I feel like, and it's anecdotal,

01:16:57 ◼   ► I feel like I see way more Apple watches than I did,

01:17:00 ◼   ► maybe even like six months ago.

01:17:02 ◼   ► Like they just, they seem to be everywhere,

01:17:06 ◼   ► and this number would point to that, I guess.

01:17:09 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:17:09 ◼   ► - They're also very happy with the AirPods,

01:17:12 ◼   ► and they now say that, again, like this combining of numbers.

01:17:18 ◼   ► has a quote, "When you tally up the last four quarters,

01:17:20 ◼   ► "our wearables business is now bigger

01:17:22 ◼   ► "than 60% of the companies in the Fortune 500."

01:17:26 ◼   ► Good job, good job wearables.

01:17:27 ◼   ► Federico, you wanna tell us about the iPad?

01:17:30 ◼   ► - Well, I will admit that I didn't follow earnings much

01:17:35 ◼   ► because it's really difficult for me to focus on this stuff

01:17:38 ◼   ► when I'm just thinking about the review,

01:17:40 ◼   ► and especially because I literally came back

01:17:42 ◼   ► from vacation last night.

01:17:43 ◼   ► That said, revenue is up 15%, I think, year over year, and this is the third consecutive

01:17:52 ◼   ► quarter that the iPad has returned to growth. So that's a good sign. And Apple specifically

01:17:59 ◼   ► called out the fact that the new lineup is performing well, so there will be the iPad,

01:18:05 ◼   ► the iPad mini, and the new iPad Air. And if I could just add my thoughts, it almost feels

01:18:11 ◼   ► like whenever, you know, if Apple just pays a little bit of attention to the iPad and,

01:18:17 ◼   ► you know, that includes hardware and that includes software, things actually start to

01:18:21 ◼   ► turn out. And I think we're seeing that there's more choice than ever in terms of the kind

01:18:29 ◼   ► of iPad that you want to buy. You can buy a 9.7 inch up until 12.9 with the Pro. You

01:18:33 ◼   ► also have the Mini and the Air in the middle. I think the strategy seems to be working well

01:18:40 ◼   ► And you can see how from this perspective iPadOS only makes sense in the context of

01:18:46 ◼   ► Apple now has a richer and more varied lineup of iPad devices and now they're going to do

01:18:52 ◼   ► the software side as well.

01:18:53 ◼   ► So sales are up, the lineup seems to be strong, there's supposedly new iPads coming, whether

01:19:01 ◼   ► this year or next year Apple has been registering a bunch of new models in the, what they call

01:19:07 ◼   ► it the Eurasian database, MacRumors or 9to5Mac articles about this. So all good news in terms

01:19:17 ◼   ► of iPad. And we have iPadOS on the horizon, so that's even better news. Do you want me

01:19:24 ◼   ► to talk about the Mac really? I won't make you talk about the Mac. Before we move off

01:19:30 ◼   ► off the iPad though, just this made me think,

01:19:32 ◼   ► like how do we think the iPad, iPad Air,

01:19:38 ◼   ► like not the mini, but like there's two middle ones.

01:19:41 ◼   ► Like how do we think they're doing?

01:19:42 ◼   ► Like do we, I mean, do we think the iPad Air is doing well?

01:19:46 ◼   ► It's kind of a product I don't think about much.

01:19:48 ◼   ► Like do you guys think it's,

01:19:50 ◼   ► - I have no, - It's important

01:19:53 ◼   ► for Apple to continue that?

01:19:54 ◼   ► - I don't have a good sense of whether people

01:19:59 ◼   ► buying the iPad Air or not. My close friends are more interested in the iPad Pro, especially

01:20:06 ◼   ► the 11-inch. And for context, my, you know, our friends, you know, the people that Sylvia

01:20:14 ◼   ► and I hang out with, they tend to be dancers like Sylvia and therefore are interested in

01:20:19 ◼   ► the idea of being able to edit music and cut mixes with a portable computer. So we've been

01:20:26 ◼   ► talking to at least a couple of them about the Apple Pro. But I don't ever I

01:20:31 ◼   ► haven't been at the Apple Store in forever really. And we talked about this

01:20:36 ◼   ► I don't I just don't like going to the Apple Store anymore. I'm not sure if

01:20:40 ◼   ► things have changed under the new leadership yet but I haven't been

01:20:45 ◼   ► in really several months at this point. So I don't know whether

01:20:49 ◼   ► people are actually going to check out the new Air and buying the new Air or not.

01:20:54 ◼   ► judging from Mac Stories readers, there's some of them that we've been getting emails,

01:21:01 ◼   ► and of course also on Adapt, we've been getting emails from owners of the new iPad Air,

01:21:07 ◼   ► but our audience tends to be skewed toward iPad Pro customers.

01:21:11 ◼   ► So if Apple says that it's doing well, taking a face value, I guess it's doing well.

01:21:18 ◼   ► I just don't have any personal opinion about it.

01:21:20 ◼   ► I think that these products will always exist for bulk purchases, education, enterprise,

01:21:27 ◼   ► that kind of stuff.

01:21:29 ◼   ► And then they're also just different price points for people with different budgets.

01:21:32 ◼   ► I mean, I expect that the education market continues to be pretty important for these

01:21:39 ◼   ► two devices anyway.

01:21:40 ◼   ► And I bet that that holds up quite a bit of the pie.

01:21:43 ◼   ► Well, I think we said this when the iPad Air came out.

01:21:47 ◼   ► taking the slightly bigger form factor and adding the keyboard makes it a lot

01:21:52 ◼   ► more attractive to like a regular consumer as well who may want to do some

01:21:55 ◼   ► email and stuff on it. It's a great product. So I think the iPad Air was a really smart move and I

01:22:00 ◼   ► hope that it is doing well for them and that people are drawn to it. Let's talk

01:22:04 ◼   ► about the Mac before we wrap up. Double-digit revenue growth for the Mac

01:22:09 ◼   ► Apple tipping their hat to the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro. The clearly the

01:22:15 ◼   ► map care right there was just pent up demand for an entry level notebook that was good.

01:22:20 ◼   ► And the MacBook Pro was revved with those new high end models, which are really expensive.

01:22:25 ◼   ► And of course, they sort of hint the Mac with the Mac Pro, there's enormous, enormous amount

01:22:31 ◼   ► of things to be excited about for the Mac. And, you know, the Mac Mini, the iMac, there's

01:22:37 ◼   ► still things to do there. But the MacBook Air, I think is probably the driver of this,

01:22:41 ◼   ► They quote, you know, the 999 MacBook Air for students and third quarter worth of growth,

01:22:48 ◼   ► just like the iPad.

01:22:49 ◼   ► So I think honestly, I think like the iPad, the Mac benefits from refresh models being

01:22:55 ◼   ► available at a bunch of different price points.

01:22:57 ◼   ► It seems so basic at Apple didn't do it for so long.

01:23:00 ◼   ► And I think hopefully they're getting the picture that we need to keep these things

01:23:02 ◼   ► fresh pretty often because people don't want to buy in like you're talking about your iMac

01:23:08 ◼   ► Pro.

01:23:09 ◼   ► necessarily want to buy a product that's been on the market for a year or a year and a half.

01:23:15 ◼   ► People are at least sort of aware of that and I think that if we can learn anything

01:23:20 ◼   ► from the last year, it's that the iPad and the Mac are going to continue to get refreshed

01:23:26 ◼   ► on a pretty regular basis.

01:23:27 ◼   ► I think that's good for everybody.

01:23:28 ◼   ► Consumers, clearly it's good for Apple, so hopefully they continue down that road.

01:23:32 ◼   ► Because they've got the revenue from somewhere.

01:23:33 ◼   ► That's right.

01:23:34 ◼   ► Got to sell more MacBook Airs because the iPhone is done.

01:23:37 ◼   ► That's the lesson.

01:23:39 ◼   ► If you want to find links to the stuff we talked about this week, you can head over

01:23:42 ◼   ► to the website relay.fm/connected/254.

01:23:46 ◼   ► 253 was last week, 254 is this week.

01:23:51 ◼   ► You can get in touch with us on that page.

01:23:53 ◼   ► There's an email link, you can send feedback and follow up, or you can do it on Twitter.

01:23:58 ◼   ► You can find Myke there as I-M-Y-K-E.

01:24:00 ◼   ► Myke is the host of a bunch of shows at Relay FM, so if you love his point of view and his

01:24:05 ◼   ► voice, there's plenty of other opportunities to get that.

01:24:08 ◼   ► You can follow Federico on Twitter at Vitici, V I T I C C I. He's the editor in chief of

01:24:13 ◼   ► Max stories.net. And when he's not podcasting, he is in his writing cave working hard on

01:24:18 ◼   ► his iOS 13 iPad OS review, which I'm very excited about. Thank you. You can find me

01:24:25 ◼   ► on Twitter as is m h. I write over at 512 pixels.net. Don't forget, we are live in San

01:24:34 ◼   ► Francisco in just a couple weeks with a lot of our friends check out that link

01:24:37 ◼   ► if it is Wednesday July 31st we're listening to this go check out the Relay

01:24:42 ◼   ► from Twitter account tomorrow we have some some fun stuff being announced

01:24:45 ◼   ► tomorrow not new shows but some fun stuff and I think that's it so until

01:24:51 ◼   ► next time gentlemen say goodbye. Adios.