247: You Never Want the Egg


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 247.

00:00:12   It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:15   Hover, Luna Display, FreshBooks, and Squarespace.

00:00:18   My name is Steven Hackett and I am joined by Myke Hurley.

00:00:21   - Hi.

00:00:22   - Hey buddy, doing all right?

00:00:24   Have you recovered from the trip?

00:00:26   - No.

00:00:28   Is this how you're going to talk the whole time?

00:00:30   - Yes.

00:00:31   - And we are also joined by Federico Vittucci.

00:00:35   - Hello, hello, coming to you from the beach house

00:00:39   while also recovering from WWDC sickness.

00:00:42   - I would prefer to recover the way you recover.

00:00:45   - At the beach?

00:00:46   - Yeah, I'm recovering from my office,

00:00:48   regular office, mega office at home.

00:00:50   I would prefer to recover at the beach, I think.

00:00:53   I need to more accurately plan my summer next year

00:00:57   so I can try and live the life that you live.

00:00:59   - Yes.

00:00:59   - I'm moving to your beach house.

00:01:02   So see you there.

00:01:03   - Okay.

00:01:05   Okay, it'll be an Airbnb by next year.

00:01:07   So we'll see if bookings are available or not.

00:01:10   But yeah.

00:01:12   - So you got sick on the trip or after the trip.

00:01:14   So during the trip,

00:01:16   so you could say when you think about it.

00:01:18   - You picked up a WW to seize.

00:01:20   - Federico was trying to blame the air conditioning.

00:01:24   - No, it was the air conditioning.

00:01:26   No, being cold doesn't make you sick. Germs make you sick.

00:01:28   Federico, Federico, we're in the same room.

00:01:32   Extreme cold makes you sick.

00:01:35   Why am I not sick?

00:01:36   Okay, so you're trying to say that if it's like, if it's December and it's minus five degree outside

00:01:42   and you walk without a t-shirt on...

00:01:44   Federico, Federico, that was not the situation in our hotel room.

00:01:49   No, I'm just saying that my body is not used to 16 or 17 degrees Celsius in a room.

00:01:57   Like, I live in a constant 20 degrees, and that is cold.

00:02:02   Like, in December, if you just walk outside and you're not properly dressed,

00:02:07   like, you're gonna get sick, right? Because it's too cold.

00:02:10   That's just a normal reaction.

00:02:12   Like, do all Italians get sick if it's too cold?

00:02:14   Like, I don't understand this.

00:02:16   We've been talking about this for years, I don't understand.

00:02:18   Possibly been the fact that you were interacting with hundreds and thousands of people.

00:02:23   Like, maybe that was the reason that you got sick.

00:02:27   What I'm saying is that during the day, I would get better, then I would go to sleep

00:02:32   and wake up again with a sore throat.

00:02:36   Because I had the cold air pointed directly at me.

00:02:39   It wasn't directly at you.

00:02:41   Yes I did.

00:02:42   It wasn't directly at you.

00:02:45   I could feel the breeze on my neck.

00:02:47   - On your neck? - As I was sleeping in a...

00:02:49   Yes.

00:02:50   - Okay.

00:02:51   - Yes. - Well.

00:02:52   - If you want to explain how diseases work,

00:02:55   you can find Federico on Twitter.

00:02:57   - Cold weather can make you sick.

00:03:00   - Okay, look, we have a lot of things to talk about,

00:03:02   so I'm just gonna move us on.

00:03:05   - Why don't you walk outside in shorts

00:03:07   and t-shirts in December, Steven, and see what happens.

00:03:11   - See what happens to you.

00:03:13   - Okay, so we have a bunch of follow out this week.

00:03:16   Just kind of wrapping up stuff from last week.

00:03:19   Federico, you posted your Appsteries interview

00:03:21   with Craig Federighi and I know I said this in person,

00:03:24   but I'll say it again, you did an amazing job with that.

00:03:27   Congratulations on a job well done.

00:03:29   - Thank you, thank you.

00:03:31   Maybe he got me sick.

00:03:32   - See? - Maybe.

00:03:33   - You got the Craig Federighis.

00:03:37   Nope, nope, bailed, I bailed on it.

00:03:39   - Oh my God. - Leave me alone.

00:03:40   I bailed on it, I'm tired.

00:03:41   - Oh my god, well thank you Steven, I appreciate it.

00:03:44   Thank you. - I thought I would have

00:03:45   the worst pun of the show, but then Myke took that away

00:03:47   from me four minutes in.

00:03:48   - We have a lot of time left to pun up a storm.

00:03:53   - Yes, so if you haven't listened to that episode

00:03:55   of App Stories, you should go do it.

00:03:57   It's really, really good.

00:03:59   Also here on Relay, both Upgrade and Parallel

00:04:02   have published interviews with various Apple people.

00:04:06   So on Upgrade, Jason spoke with Wylie Hodges

00:04:09   Josh Shafer about Swift UI, which I think Jason did a really good job at talking about

00:04:14   what's a pretty complicated like developer topic and making it approachable to those

00:04:18   of us who aren't developers.

00:04:20   That was really cool.

00:04:22   And then on parallel, Shelley spoke with Apple's director of global accessibility policy and

00:04:27   initiatives that is quite the title.

00:04:30   Her name is mouthful it is but Sarah.

00:04:32   Oh, I should have looked at this before I tried it.

00:04:35   You can do it.

00:04:36   You can hurt hurling.

00:04:37   - Herling Jerr. - Yeah, I love that.

00:04:40   - Really great topic about,

00:04:42   a really great discussion about accessibility

00:04:43   and what Apple's doing there,

00:04:44   continuing to push the ball forward.

00:04:46   So go add those to your post WWDC listening.

00:04:50   I for one am just super proud of the work Relay

00:04:53   and others did at WWDC covering it from the podcast angle.

00:04:56   It was a good year for podcasts at WWDC.

00:04:59   - Yeah, I do like this new strategy of Apple

00:05:01   sort of opening up a little more

00:05:03   to reach specific audiences.

00:05:06   using podcasts. I think that's a great idea. I really hope this is not a one-off.

00:05:13   Not just personally speaking, but in general, I think reaching out to specific segments

00:05:17   of the Apple community, whether it's Mac power users or folks who are interested in iPad

00:05:23   or accessibility or all kind -- like, it's such a massive company at this point. And

00:05:29   you can -- just by looking at the software releases that were announced at WWDC, you

00:05:35   see how they all cater to a different type of Apple customer. And so I think it's definitely

00:05:42   the right idea to go out to specific podcasts or specific websites and trying to be a little

00:05:47   more open. I just hopefully next year they will have an even better podcast studio environment

00:05:56   set up.

00:05:57   You don't like cafeteria sounds?

00:06:01   Those were not cafeteria sounds.

00:06:04   So maybe loading dock sounds on a podcast should be a new genre.

00:06:13   Maybe somebody should try that, but maybe next year it will be a little quieter environment.

00:06:19   But overall, it was a pretty awesome week for independent podcasting, and I feel this

00:06:24   is a thing that should continue, because having that kind of recognition of the medium, I

00:06:29   think it's important for podcasters, I think it's important for listeners, and I think

00:06:33   a program for Apple because they can reach out to the fans and to the audience that's

00:06:39   interested in a specific topic.

00:06:40   A direct and engaged audience.

00:06:43   You kind of can't ask for more than that.

00:06:45   Yes, exactly.

00:06:46   Also, we'll have links in the show notes to a couple of blog posts that have popped

00:06:48   up post WWDC.

00:06:50   So we have one by our friend David Smith about the themes that he saw at WWDC and maybe where

00:06:56   Apple is going with certain things.

00:06:58   And then Marco Arment wrote one about Apple listening to its customers in particular,

00:07:04   centered around the Mac, both really good posts that we unfortunately don't have time

00:07:08   to get into today.

00:07:10   But I want to point you in that direction, that those are well with a read at this point,

00:07:15   thus endeth WWDC follow out.

00:07:18   We do have one tiny topic and that is my giant MacBook Pro.

00:07:24   15 inch big boy.

00:07:26   So we spoke about this a couple of weeks ago.

00:07:28   I picked up the new eight core model before the trip. And I've got to say it, it totally

00:07:33   won me over traveling with it, it is big to actually travel with, you know, you're not

00:07:39   going to get much editing done on an airplane. But I was really impressed with the performance

00:07:44   and the balance of the machine. So I was alert, a little worried that hey, in an eight core

00:07:49   MacBook Pro, like, it's just going to be hot and unruly like the whole time. And it's kind

00:07:54   of like a sleeper in the sense that it, you know, it behaves in his mild mannered when

00:07:58   you're just sort of, you know, goofing off on slack and email and Twitter and stuff.

00:08:03   But when you put your foot down in something like logic, or, you know, making an mp3 and

00:08:08   forecast, it sort of comes alive and all that power becomes available to you. And I've been

00:08:14   really impressed with it. You know, the battery life is not phenomenal. I don't I'm not really

00:08:17   one to run like, formal battery tests, but I can tell you when it's under load, it's

00:08:22   it's gonna hit the battery pretty hard.

00:08:24   In just day to day use,

00:08:25   it's like a perfectly tame, normal laptop

00:08:28   and I'm really happy with it and it's gonna stick around.

00:08:32   - Interesting.

00:08:33   I feel like there's some kind of like,

00:08:35   thought there's something going on here.

00:08:38   I feel like you're trying to lay the seeds for something.

00:08:41   It's just like this laptop's definitely not going anywhere.

00:08:44   - Well I sold the other one.

00:08:46   - Oh, you have?

00:08:47   Oh great. - I have, yep.

00:08:48   - Awesome.

00:08:49   I can't say to who, but it was Kyle's the Grey.

00:08:53   Oh, again?

00:08:54   He's bought two laptops from me now in four years.

00:08:57   That's interesting.

00:08:58   So where's the catch, Steven?

00:09:01   Yeah, this is what I mean. There's something, right? Like it feels like there's something?

00:09:05   No there's not. It's a great laptop, I'm happy with it.

00:09:08   Isn't it butt?

00:09:09   Butt?

00:09:11   Come on.

00:09:13   What is it?

00:09:14   Butt?

00:09:14   Butt.

00:09:17   Come on.

00:09:18   But I'm using the Mac Pro instead now.

00:09:20   The trash can won me over.

00:09:21   I like to roll it around.

00:09:22   It's perfectly portable.

00:09:24   - Yeah, that's right.

00:09:24   I sold the iMac Pro and I'm using the trash can instead.

00:09:27   - So, hold on.

00:09:28   You just bought a computer and you liked it?

00:09:31   And that's it?

00:09:33   - Yeah, see, it doesn't seem right, does it?

00:09:35   There's gotta be some catch.

00:09:37   - Are you okay?

00:09:39   - I'm not the one who's sick.

00:09:41   I'm fine.

00:09:42   Things are good.

00:09:43   It's nice and warm in here.

00:09:44   No germs.

00:09:48   Can we move on?

00:09:49   That's all there is.

00:09:50   I like this laptop a lot.

00:09:51   I think Apple did a good job on it.

00:09:52   - Everybody, mark this day.

00:09:54   Mark this day. - Not convinced.

00:09:56   - June 12th, 2019. - Wednesday, June 12th.

00:09:59   - Steven says-- - Something happened.

00:10:00   - His computer's fine, right?

00:10:02   Everyone pay attention to that.

00:10:04   - You can move on now.

00:10:05   - Thank you.

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00:11:50   and relay FM. So we thought today that we would walk through Apple's platforms and talk about

00:11:57   the changes that we're most excited about coming. This is, you know, a week later from WBC, the dust

00:12:03   has settled, we've all done a lot more reading and preparation and kind of know more in depth

00:12:07   what's going on. So we're going to spend this episode kind of going platform by platform,

00:12:13   talking about those things and we're going to start with tvos and mike i believe you have

00:12:20   have spent some time reading about tvos you're the tvos guy now i'm not i think what happened was

00:12:27   i got to picking things late this week so i have tvos and watchos a platform that didn't really get

00:12:37   a lot done to it and then one I don't use. But I've done some reading, so I can provide you what

00:12:46   I'm going to do and we'll talk about everything. I don't think we're going to talk about everything.

00:12:49   The stuff I think interests us the most are kind of high-level stuff.

00:12:53   Maybe though, maybe you should be the tvOS guy.

00:12:57   Maybe I should, right? Maybe that could be what people know me for. I was like, "Oh,

00:13:01   that's the tvOS guy." Oh yeah, like few people that I've met with DC.

00:13:07   C actually came up to me without even saying hello or my name is, you know, Frank or something.

00:13:14   They would just stare at me and then say, yeah, the iPad guy.

00:13:19   >> So I want to be that, but for tvOS. >> But for tvOS.

00:13:23   >> So I will start the dawning of this new era by telling you about multi-user support,

00:13:28   which is I think really all of these things are I think of equal importance, the three

00:13:33   things that I'm going to talk about and it just kind of depends on your own personal

00:13:37   circumstances I think how you would rank them. But the multi-user support effectively is

00:13:42   like Netflix, right? So when you open Netflix and you choose from which person it is, right?

00:13:49   Like is it you? Is it your partner? Is it your child? It's like that. So this way you

00:13:55   won't get a bunch of like bad recommendations. Like you won't get a lot of kids TV in your

00:14:00   recommendations, right? So you can have like a specific kids page. And as well,

00:14:03   Apple has that new like kids area as well, which is even better for this stuff to

00:14:08   kind of help that all kind of move together.

00:14:10   You know your kids stumbling across the handmaid's tail or something, right?

00:14:13   Like have some separation.

00:14:15   Yeah. Yeah, it goes both ways. You access this via a new control center view.

00:14:21   I'm not sure how you get to the control center yet. I haven't actually worked that out.

00:14:26   I really hope, because it would be terrible, that you swipe down from the top right hand corner of

00:14:30   the Siri remote because that's what I hope is the action. Oh no, don't give him ideas! Please don't

00:14:40   do that, Apple! I do like that you can quickly switch between profiles rather than having to

00:14:46   quit, right? Like going out to a home screen or turning it off and on again, that kind of thing.

00:14:51   It's kind of well thought out. They've also put AirPlay-like controls for choosing audio outputs

00:14:55   there which I think is really good so you can make like a master view rather than having to like go

00:14:59   into settings to get to connect to your AirPods or whatever so I think that's really good and you can

00:15:05   have different photos and stuff with the icons and you keep your own history so that's multi-user

00:15:09   support on tvOS. I think game controllers is of an equal importance but it depends on where you're

00:15:15   coming from so we spoke about this a little bit last time but the ability to hook up an Xbox or

00:15:20   PS4 controller to your Apple TV. It's really great. It's going to be fantastic for Apple

00:15:26   Arcade. This feels like something that I'm expecting Apple kind of had to do if they

00:15:30   wanted to make tvOS an actual really good destination for Apple Arcade games. So I'm

00:15:37   pleased that they did this. And also this makes, for me, it makes it way more likely

00:15:43   that I would use the Apple TV to play Apple Arcade games because I could hook up my Xbox

00:15:50   or PS4 controller. So a question for you. I know that the DualShock 4 works no

00:15:58   matter which model you have, but Apple said that because these controllers

00:16:03   require Bluetooth and so they said only the Xbox One S controller is that is

00:16:09   that the only one of the Xbox One controllers that has Bluetooth built-in

00:16:14   or will my Xbox One X controller work? Or will the Xbox One Elite controller work? Or

00:16:23   do I need the One S controller?

00:16:27   I do not know why they specifically stated the One S controller, because the Elite controller

00:16:35   has Bluetooth. Right? Like, it is a Bluetooth controller. My only thinking is that Apple

00:16:41   just went for the lowest common denominator because they can't say all Xbox controllers,

00:16:48   potentially, right? Because it might not work with like Xbox 360 controllers.

00:16:52   But I would expect that anything that works with an Xbox One and above would work. But I honestly,

00:17:00   I have not been able to find anything that would tell me otherwise. Like, I can't find anything

00:17:08   that can confirm to me exactly what game controllers can be used.

00:17:12   Got it. OK. Because I should look at.

00:17:15   Yeah, I mean, if anybody knows, I would love to know.

00:17:18   But I have I have the standard one X controller and the elite controller.

00:17:25   I know that Microsoft just announced the elite two controller that's coming up.

00:17:29   I think it's September anyway in the fall.

00:17:32   So I found a press release

00:17:34   which just says Xbox wireless controller with Bluetooth.

00:17:38   OK, so that's better.

00:17:40   So I genuinely think that on stage

00:17:43   they just decided to just brand the best they could. Right.

00:17:47   Like if you start with Xbox one S controllers

00:17:50   and then move on from there. Right.

00:17:53   So I think that was kind of where they went with it.

00:17:55   But I will probably go with PlayStation

00:17:59   just because that's what I have in the living room.

00:18:02   the my elite controller I just use with my PC.

00:18:05   But I love both of those controllers.

00:18:07   They're way better.

00:18:08   And I like that I continue to find it super weird that the pro controller

00:18:11   doesn't work and all that just in general, they haven't made it

00:18:15   for basically any Bluetooth controller to work.

00:18:18   It seems interesting to me that they have very specifically chosen these two,

00:18:23   but they have chosen probably the two most frequent. Right.

00:18:26   Because the pro controller like there are a lot of Nintendo switches.

00:18:29   They're not going to be as many pro controllers.

00:18:32   and it would be super weird to try and use a Joy-Con with the Apple TV.

00:18:36   That would be very peculiar.

00:18:38   Would that be worse than the Siri remote?

00:18:40   Probably. Probably. Alex in the chat says it looks like you have to hold down the TV

00:18:45   or menu button to bring up Control Center. That is less exciting than swiping down from

00:18:51   the top right hand corner of the swipey thing, the touchpad. But game controllers is good

00:18:55   and the underwater screensavers. So last year they went to space, this time they went into

00:19:00   the deep sea. I love the screen savers. It's one of the best reasons to own an Apple TV.

00:19:05   So I'm pleased that they're adding more of them. It genuinely is. They're so beautiful.

00:19:08   They're really cool. So I'm excited about more varied instances. I saw one the other day. I was

00:19:15   watching my Apple TV and it was one of the space ones. I'd never seen this before, but there was

00:19:20   like a thunderstorm. And so you could see all this lightning and a cloud. Oh, it looked really good.

00:19:27   it looked really cool. Like you just see all these like flashes in these clouds from one of the space

00:19:31   ones. It is fun like that I see these things every single day and I still see new stuff in them.

00:19:36   Yeah, well, they do push out new ones, I think from time to time. But okay, yeah,

00:19:42   they look great. And I mean, very often like our TV is just on. And you know, one of the kids left

00:19:47   it on whatever. So the Apple TV goes to that screensaver and is really nice. And you know,

00:19:51   I got what I wanted last year was the ability to see the location because

00:19:56   It's the best thing. You like play the guessing game and now I think you can touch the remote

00:20:00   and it or slide or something and it you tap it and it just pops up and tells you and that's

00:20:04   and it shows you it's a great feature. So yeah, that also that all looks awesome. And you know,

00:20:10   tvOS is not necessarily Apple's most exciting platform, but one that like I'm impressed how

00:20:17   far it's come. I think it's a pretty mature platform at this point. I don't think that

00:20:24   there is a lot more that they can or should do to the Apple TV. Like really the focus now should be

00:20:32   make the best deals and content to get more content that you can. That is the focus of the Apple TV.

00:20:38   Really they should be treating Apple TV like they treat Apple Music, right? Like they don't spend

00:20:44   lots of time updating the Apple Music app with new functionality every year, right?

00:20:49   After its third redesign they finally got it right.

00:20:51   Well, but they're doing the same thing with tvOS. They're continuing to redesign it.

00:20:55   They've even made some changes just visually from how the new TV app works. So it's going to look

00:20:59   slightly different. Not a lot, but there's just some like visual polish that they've put into the

00:21:04   new tvOS version. But I think that really what they should be focusing on is the content because

00:21:11   that's the most important thing because it turns out, turns out everyone, that the future of TV

00:21:15   was not apps. The future of TV is original content. Apple know that and they need to focus on that.

00:21:21   That was what, 2015 or 2016? That wasn't that long ago.

00:21:25   Yeah, it was a...

00:21:27   And that's coming from the TV OS guy, so you know it's true.

00:21:30   Yeah, you know me, everyone knows me, I'm the TV OS guy.

00:21:34   But I mean seriously, now that they have the streaming service coming out, they have game

00:21:40   controller support with actual game controllers. They should really focus on the TV side, on

00:21:45   actually getting the originals started. And I want to see what Apple Arcade is going to

00:21:50   look like. We still don't know what the... what's that? A hundred games at launch? We

00:21:57   don't know exactly what games those will be and how they will play, what they will look

00:22:02   like. And I really feel like getting developers to make exclusive content for Apple Arcade

00:22:09   could be another idea to sort of propel the Apple TV platform forward. It's a little strange

00:22:16   message to say you now have Apple Arcade and all these exclusive games and the best way

00:22:22   to play them is with a PlayStation controller, but also it's kind of like facing reality,

00:22:27   right? Nobody, and nobody is a figure of speech, but I mean in the context of people who care

00:22:34   about video games, your first thought is not, "Oh, I should really buy an Apple TV." No,

00:22:39   your first thought is, "I should probably buy a PlayStation or an Nintendo Switch." And

00:22:43   And then if you also have an Apple TV, maybe you're like, well, you know, there's actually

00:22:46   a bunch of games here too, maybe I can actually play some games.

00:22:49   Which is why I'm surprised by the lack of Switch Pro Controller support.

00:22:54   That should also be a thing.

00:22:55   It feels like they should have done all three of them or none of them.

00:23:00   It just seems a peculiar omission.

00:23:02   I find it very weird.

00:23:04   But it is what it is.

00:23:05   They could add it, right?

00:23:06   Like it's all just Bluetooth, right?

00:23:08   Like it's not going to be a million miles away to add it.

00:23:11   I've had a vision of the Apple Arcade interface.

00:23:15   If we were still in the iOS 6 era, it would be like walking into an arcade and there'd

00:23:24   be rows of cabinets and you'd have to walk around them and then pick the one you wanted

00:23:29   by clicking a button that looked like a quarter.

00:23:32   Apple's gonna create a VR headset for Apple Arcade that you have to put on.

00:23:37   Walk over to the cabinet.

00:23:38   Some people would say that that will look beautiful.

00:23:41   Some people today would actually still like that.

00:23:44   So be careful what you wish for Steven.

00:23:47   You just put coins into your Apple TV.

00:23:51   That's how it works.

00:23:52   Let's talk about my second favorite platform, WatchOS.

00:23:55   We'll talk about WatchOS 6.

00:23:56   I'm the WatchOS guy now.

00:23:57   The part-time WatchOS guy.

00:23:59   Full-time TV, part-time watch.

00:24:01   Yes, that's it.

00:24:02   Yeah, sorry.

00:24:03   Watch faces.

00:24:04   We've heard about all of the watch faces by now, but Apple introduced a variety of new

00:24:07   I think having seen lots of images and watches in use I think I've really warmed to the California

00:24:20   face because it can be so visually customized so like a lot of the stuff that we heard before was

00:24:26   like you could choose it was like oh it was a mixture between like Arabic and Roman numerals

00:24:31   but you can actually customize what you want the numerals to be on the face so you can choose all

00:24:37   or half or one or the other. So there's a little bit more flexibility in that as well

00:24:44   as being able to change some of the colours. And I also like that you can, even with some

00:24:49   of the watch faces that are intended to be more visually striking this time, they can

00:24:55   be customised with complications. I haven't seen any watch face that can't have complications

00:25:00   on it, or at least of the ones that are more visual, like the gradient one for example,

00:25:05   which I feel like previously it would have just been,

00:25:07   well, no, it's just the gradient face, that's all it is.

00:25:09   But now you can shrink the gradient

00:25:11   from a square into a circle

00:25:12   and put some of those corner complications on it.

00:25:14   So that's nice.

00:25:15   I didn't notice this, but when I was reading the,

00:25:19   I didn't even really think about it,

00:25:20   but I was reading Ryan's overview on Mac stories.

00:25:24   And I, oh, it was Alex, sorry, it was Alex's overview.

00:25:29   See, I checked the byline.

00:25:32   I've checked it, I've checked it, and it was Alex.

00:25:33   Alex's overview on Mac stories and the Siri face wasn't mentioned, isn't mentioned,

00:25:40   doesn't seem to have had any changes. It felt like Apple were really pushing on that

00:25:46   and have now stopped.

00:25:47   Yeah, that was a good point. I also read that story.

00:25:51   It felt like that the Siri face was like, "Oh, this is another attempt at building a

00:25:55   user interface for this device."

00:25:57   Yeah, I was thinking about this, but from a different perspective a few days ago of

00:26:03   So I bought Sylvia two watch bands in America, and she really likes them, but I was looking

00:26:11   at them after she tried them on, and I thought, "It's been a while since I saw a completely

00:26:18   new watch band design from Apple."

00:26:21   And it feels like, especially in the first year of the watch, they were trying a bunch

00:26:25   of different things, like the Milanese and the stainless steel bracelet and all of these

00:26:31   leather designs and now we've basically been stuck, I mean, aside from the Hermes collection,

00:26:38   we basically had the same watch bands for a while now. And so I thought maybe this is

00:26:42   another symptom of people just using Apple watches for the basic stuff like, and by basic

00:26:49   I don't mean that there are simple features, but just features that everybody thinks are

00:26:54   obvious at this point, so notifications and fitness. And so maybe from that perspective

00:27:00   it's reflected in the software, so lack of updates to the Siri face, and also in the

00:27:05   accessories, because maybe most people are just fine with the sport band and the Nike

00:27:09   loop whatever it's called band, which I think is fine, because that's what people are using

00:27:14   the Apple Watch for.

00:27:15   I guess it's focusing on what is important.

00:27:17   Yeah, yeah, maybe.

00:27:19   Yeah, could be.

00:27:20   Apple did add a selection of new apps.

00:27:22   One is Voice Memos, which is one of those ones where I feel like I can't believe that

00:27:26   this wasn't always a thing because even just as a case of like making you feel

00:27:31   like you have a future feeling device which Apple like to do being able to

00:27:36   record a memo into your watch is very like James Bondi you know so like they

00:27:41   added stuff like walkie-talkie when really I would say that voice memos

00:27:45   would be as cool and more useful than the walkie-talkie but that's coming a

00:27:49   calculator including tip functionalities you can calculate tips pcalc does this

00:27:54   and you can do that if you want to, there are third-party apps that do it, but Apple's

00:27:58   adding their own. They added the for health stuff, they added a cycle tracking app and

00:28:04   also the noise app and it was fun to see the noise app kind of in use last week. So Underscore

00:28:10   David Smith had the better on one of the many watches that he was wearing and it was interesting

00:28:15   to see like when I was around him when the noise complication would alert him, right?

00:28:20   be like, oh, this, the environment that you're in is too noisy. So like one was in like,

00:28:25   walking through the lobby at the hotel where they had this loud music playing. Another,

00:28:28   which was my favorite instance is I was hanging out with him and a few friends and we were

00:28:32   just like in a quiet environment. And Casey Eliss arrived and he said hello to everyone

00:28:39   and it set off Underscore's watch saying that the environment was too loud, which I thought

00:28:44   was just amazing that the Apple Watch is turning against Casey and so now

00:28:52   everyone's just gonna be like in a situation where oh it's too loud Casey's

00:28:57   here so Casey's gonna have to whisper now the Apple Watch is is making him out

00:29:01   to be a big loud person so I do think that that decibel thing is interesting

00:29:06   mm-hmm but I bet it's gonna go off a lot and that that seems like a frustrating

00:29:12   thing maybe. The App Store is on the Apple Watch now. I think the key thing here is really

00:29:19   trying to work out who this is going to be useful for. Like, are people going to download

00:29:25   apps on their watch that often? Like, are people actually downloading apps, third party

00:29:30   apps to the watch anyway? Like, I don't even know if that's a thing or like, are they being

00:29:36   automatically downloaded, right, to people's watches? Like, are people trying to get it?

00:29:41   It's not "are they downloading them?" but "does Apple want them to download that?"

00:29:46   Yeah, and I mean, by putting an app store on it you would seem to think that yes, they

00:29:49   would like that.

00:29:50   So, okay, so I will bring forth a theory that I saw on Twitter today from my good Italian

00:29:58   friend, Diago Petrucci, who was actually at WWDC with this team.

00:30:04   I will find a link to the tweet.

00:30:06   So the theory was the following, and I really want to hear what you guys think.

00:30:10   He said something along the lines of, "I wonder if Apple pushing watch independence with the

00:30:16   App Store and SwiftUI is part of a bigger plan to get Android users to actually use

00:30:24   the Apple Watch on its own, appreciate the Apple Watch, and eventually switch back to

00:30:29   iPhone, iPad, whatever."

00:30:31   Like down the line.

00:30:33   Because the Apple Watch is the only thing that is competitive in that market.

00:30:43   It seems that Google Wear watches never really took off and the Apple Watch dominates that

00:30:50   market space.

00:30:52   So if they were to be able to create this independent device that then Android users

00:30:56   could use it would be great.

00:30:57   But how, I guess it's just about making it completely independent right?

00:31:02   because I'm thinking like what would you do with the health data?

00:31:04   Well, the health data just lives on the watch.

00:31:05   That's where it lives and you don't, it doesn't go anywhere else.

00:31:09   It's not a wild thing.

00:31:12   I mean, I think that there are many reasons that Apple might want

00:31:15   the Apple Watch to be independent,

00:31:20   but this could be one of them.

00:31:23   Yeah, sort of like the iPod many years ago.

00:31:27   Maybe we're I mean, of course, we're not there yet.

00:31:31   you still need to pair an Apple Watch with an iPhone and all of that.

00:31:34   But full independence, maybe next year, maybe in a couple of years,

00:31:38   so that you can actually go to a store, buy an Apple Watch and it works on its own.

00:31:42   You don't need a master device.

00:31:43   That could be an easier sell for people who don't have an iPhone

00:31:49   and just want to buy an Apple Watch.

00:31:51   But you like it so much, then maybe eventually you do get an iPhone

00:31:54   or you do get an iPad or a Mac, if those will still be around. So.

00:32:00   Yeah, could be.

00:32:01   Anyway, so new apps, App Store.

00:32:05   What else? What else is new, Michael?

00:32:07   Well, the other thing with the App Store that is interesting to me, that is more

00:32:12   interesting, I guess, is probably the more important part is you don't need to have

00:32:15   companion apps anymore downloaded on a phone.

00:32:17   You can have a watch app that just lives on the watch.

00:32:20   That's all. That's its only place.

00:32:21   So I think that that is a good thing because you can you know, there are a lot of

00:32:27   which are really intended to be watch apps,

00:32:29   but then they have to have some weird iPhone app

00:32:31   and that can go away now, which is really cool.

00:32:33   And then, you know, we were talking about the fact

00:32:35   that it's a fitness device primarily.

00:32:38   One of the big things that they added to activity,

00:32:41   right, on the watch, and it goes over to the iPhone 2,

00:32:44   is a kind of trend. It's called activity trends.

00:32:47   It's like a three-month rolling comparison of your data

00:32:49   compared to the previous year.

00:32:50   So it shows you day by day over a three-month period,

00:32:53   how am I doing, compared to last year as well.

00:32:56   It tracks a bunch of metrics around health and fitness to measure how you're performing.

00:33:00   It includes the rings and data from your workout and stuff that it can sense from the heart

00:33:06   readers and stuff like that.

00:33:07   And then the watch will present you with coaching notifications based on the data.

00:33:13   So you're doing really good or you're not doing so good, this is where you're not doing

00:33:17   so good, this might be why, this is how you can fix it, that kind of stuff.

00:33:21   So really this is only the type of thing that can exist once the watch has been around for

00:33:25   a while because they couldn't have launched a activity trends because there was no data before

00:33:31   but now apple are in a position where they've been able to suck in so much data onto people's

00:33:36   devices that they can start presenting it in these new ways which is really great and if they're able

00:33:42   to take a look at that stuff and provide helpful and actionable feedback to people to help them

00:33:48   with their health and fitness that seems like a good thing it seems like a good reason to have

00:33:52   this device strapped to all the time, right? Like if it's sensing all this stuff from you all the

00:33:56   time anyway, it's great to be able to have it presented to you in ways that are varying use.

00:34:02   This episode of connected is brought to you by our friends over at Luna display. They're the makers

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00:35:54   All right, let's talk about the Mac.

00:35:57   And I think there's no debate just as Myke is known internationally as the TV OS guy.

00:36:03   I think I've solidified myself as the Mac guy on this show.

00:36:07   There any complaints about that?

00:36:08   Federico, you want to swipe in here and talk about Catalina?

00:36:11   Well, yeah, sure.

00:36:13   I can talk about Catalina.

00:36:14   So Carolina is the new release of Mac OS. It has apps. Apps are new. Apps are good.

00:36:23   Apps are good. People like apps. And so the apps that you get on Carolina are really good

00:36:28   apps because the same company...

00:36:29   The future of the Mac is apps.

00:36:32   Get this. The same company that makes the operating system makes the apps. So you know

00:36:36   they're good.

00:36:37   I get this. Get this.

00:36:39   Oh, that's good.

00:36:42   Anything else?

00:36:43   more about Catalina? Can you tell me more? Not only that, but like the company that makes

00:36:49   the operating system and the apps also makes the computers. Like, mind blowing. I know,

00:36:55   right? That feels like some kind of end-to-end solution. Yeah, yeah. So apps on Catalina

00:37:03   are full screen apps. They take advantage of the screen. They work with the mouse. You

00:37:17   can select elements and click. There's a finder. Finder is good. You can listen to podcasts.

00:37:31   are made by a guy named Marco. He makes all the podcasts. There's a feature called Motorbike

00:37:40   that lets you stream your apps to other apps. This sounds really good. I'm really pleased

00:37:50   that you were here for this. Cool. So we just move right on. So that's Carolina. We're really

00:37:56   excited to see what you're gonna do with it. Wow. Yeah. Okay. I don't know how I could

00:38:02   top that, but can I fill in a couple details that you glossed over? Would that be okay?

00:38:06   Sure. If you really need to. Yeah. So there are new apps in Catalina. We have...

00:38:12   We knew that! Federico told us that. We have reminders, music and podcasts and TV. So reminders,

00:38:22   It's gotten the notes treatment in my time with Catalina I'm running it on a 12 inch

00:38:26   MacBook so I don't know if the OS is slow or for just the computer it's on not the cleanest

00:38:32   beta test I've ever done but reminders looks really promising you can do you know if reminders

00:38:39   is a catalyst app or a regular Mac app.

00:38:42   It is a regular Mac app.

00:38:44   Okay.

00:38:45   Yes.

00:38:46   Yeah.

00:38:47   Can we have a sidebar?

00:38:48   Yes.

00:38:49   Briefly because you brought to mind something that's been bugging me.

00:38:51   could have a sidecar.

00:39:00   I think we needed to talk about catalyst apps a little bit differently. You didn't use the

00:39:04   term but the term I've heard in other shows and people talking on Twitter and blog posts

00:39:08   and stuff. Contrast catalyst apps with native Mac apps. And that's just wrong. These are

00:39:16   yeah native Mac apps. If you look at the underlying frameworks, the way that they work, they are

00:39:20   just as native as app kit apps. Now the difference is it fine for me to say regular I think I

00:39:27   said regular I feel like that because I don't really want to say app kit. I would say maybe

00:39:32   traditional Mac apps traditional old. You can say that to you boring. If you want to

00:39:40   talk about app kit you can find Myke on Twitter. So vintage. Oh, wow. That's good. Classic.

00:39:48   Oh, that's wrong.

00:39:49   Yeah, that's too far.

00:39:50   So Reminders is an App Kit app.

00:39:53   And most of the new stuff is because, look,

00:39:55   Catalyst and SwiftUI are new this year.

00:39:58   The rest of Apple didn't know about this stuff

00:40:01   until recently.

00:40:02   So Reminders, I think, has been in the works for a long time.

00:40:06   And I've got to say, I'm playing with it now.

00:40:08   It's kind of broken in the beta.

00:40:10   There's a sort menu item, because I

00:40:12   want to sort things by due date.

00:40:14   And there's nothing in the submenu.

00:40:16   Like it just says view sort and then there's nothing in there.

00:40:19   So no, maybe that's just telling you what you need to know.

00:40:22   You can't sort by anything.

00:40:25   It's taunting me.

00:40:26   I filed a feedback report.

00:40:28   Don't worry.

00:40:28   But, uh, yeah, I did the same last night.

00:40:30   People do not Steve.

00:40:32   I assume you filed it on the Mac.

00:40:34   I did in the new feedback app, which, which is great.

00:40:37   Yeah.

00:40:37   And I did for iOS.

00:40:38   So, so reminders feels really full featured.

00:40:41   So it has a lot of things that you find in other task managers.

00:40:45   You can have nested lists, you can have really powerful reminders, repeating tasks that even

00:40:50   have a feature that I saw it as like, Oh, that's sort of like the opposite of what things

00:40:55   does.

00:40:56   So with things, items that are past do get stuck in your today view.

00:41:00   And in reminders on the Mac, you can say I want that to happen or I want you to preserve

00:41:04   the original due date.

00:41:05   So some nice touches.

00:41:07   I think that it is going to be really powerful when they're done with it.

00:41:11   Clearly, it's it's not finished.

00:41:12   I'm so excited about it.

00:41:14   I think I could move to it from Todoist pretty easily.

00:41:17   Can you imagine if we were all just using reminders in like six months?

00:41:21   Well, if you had told us five years ago we'd all be using notes, I wouldn't have believed

00:41:25   you.

00:41:26   No, exactly.

00:41:27   So I'm so excited.

00:41:28   I can't wait.

00:41:29   I cannot wait to do it.

00:41:31   Like I really, I want to use reminders so bad.

00:41:34   Like I've been looking at the screenshots on the website and like you can attach images

00:41:39   to a reminder.

00:41:40   I never thought I needed to do that, but like, now I want to do it.

00:41:43   Like that just seems like a really nice thing to be able to do.

00:41:46   Like I could attach a screenshot to a reminder.

00:41:49   That is feels like a thing I would do a lot, right?

00:41:51   Like rather because there have been times where I've like uploaded an image to like

00:41:56   dropler and then put a URL and a note like it's just like, oh, it sucks.

00:42:01   And the sub lists, it's just like a nice thing that it has.

00:42:04   And it seems like it's integrated nicely.

00:42:07   Because like todoist does that.

00:42:08   But I hate how it does it.

00:42:09   ugly. So I think I'm really excited about a lot of the stuff in reminders and I

00:42:16   think it looks very nice. I like that you can choose icons and stuff which I

00:42:19   didn't know for like the smart lists. So when you create or like the lists that

00:42:23   you create I should say you can choose the icons that you want for them so they

00:42:27   would just look a little bit nicer. I'm really genuinely like I am way more

00:42:31   excited about this reminders update than I thought I was going to be but I'm very

00:42:37   very keen like to be able to use it. But I don't know when I'm going to be able to actually use it

00:42:43   properly because I don't want to update my Mac to a beta version of Mac OS.

00:42:51   They don't want to do that. And you do have to sort of opt in to the new reminders

00:42:56   system just like it was with iCloud Drive years ago where it's like, okay, I'm ready to move over.

00:43:01   Well, I mean, it might not be too difficult for me because I literally have not used reminders in

00:43:05   like four years so there's nothing in there.

00:43:07   So yeah but if you want to access your task list on your Mac then right but that I might

00:43:12   just have to let that go until Catalina comes out right like and I can just whatever I can

00:43:17   just use my phone on my iPad like it's not the worst thing so I think when I'm when I'm

00:43:21   all in on the beta which would be at some point I'm really I'm gonna move everything

00:43:25   over and I'm gonna try it out like I'm genuinely really excited about it like I think that

00:43:31   this could be an app for me.

00:43:33   It looks it looks really promising

00:43:35   Of course, we also have iTunes being split up the music app

00:43:40   Like I just have to say it feels like a stripped-down iTunes complete with the modal preference pain

00:43:45   Still there. It is it puts Apple music and your local library on basically a level playing field and I

00:43:53   Think that you know, I haven't hooked a lot of stuff up to it yet, but it does seem

00:43:59   very much to be more responsive and cleaner than iTunes was but it feels like a child of iTunes in a lot of ways and

00:44:06   The TV apps kind of the same way like it has the same modal preferences

00:44:10   it

00:44:12   But it's like I need you to start plugging iPods into that Mac and see what happens

00:44:16   Like I just want to know what the whole finder thing is all about like and how I just want to know I would like

00:44:23   You to report back on what it's like to use iPods with Catalina. I will do that

00:44:28   I've not done that yet, but I will report back for next week because that all got moved

00:44:32   There is no reason why you should have done it before now

00:44:35   Like there are a million more important things but between now and next week

00:44:38   I would really like to know what it's like to use an iPod deck with the there's that weird find of you

00:44:44   I'm very intrigued to see what that looks like

00:44:46   Okay, and you are the man for the job. It's true that there are a lot of iPods around here

00:44:51   I could plug in mm-hmm

00:44:53   The TV app feels very much like having a tiny floating Apple TV, just on your Mac, the interface

00:45:02   is basically what you would expect. It seems pretty fluid. All these apps do things like

00:45:08   resize and the window sort of management feels much more fluid than the Mojave versions of

00:45:16   you know, news and voice memos and everything to clear the technology has come a long way

00:45:21   under the hood.

00:45:22   Right. So is TV catalyst? No, it is app kit. The only one of these new apps that is catalyst

00:45:29   is podcasts. But what's cool is from a user perspective, using music and podcasts, even

00:45:37   like side by side, knowing in my mind, they're built differently. You can't really tell a

00:45:42   difference. They both feel they feel and react and, and behave effectively the same way.

00:45:49   And I think that's, I think that's great.

00:45:50   It's how it should be.

00:45:52   And I don't think any I don't think normal users who upgrade to catalyst this fall are

00:45:58   going to be like, Oh, podcasts feels non native or music feels nice.

00:46:02   Like there's not going to be in this conversations because apples in a really good job at matching

00:46:06   how they work to each other.

00:46:07   Okay.

00:46:08   It's very impressive.

00:46:10   Coming from where we were last year, especially.

00:46:13   So those are the new apps.

00:46:14   But I don't talk about catalyst just briefly.

00:46:17   watching sessions, it's very clear to me that while Apple pitches this as just

00:46:22   check the Mac target checkbox and Xcode, that could get you a Mac app, but not

00:46:27   necessarily a good one, not necessarily one that is polished, or as flexible as

00:46:33   people would want. So there is work to be done by developers to take advantage of

00:46:40   a fuller menu system, toolbars, you know, the touch bar support, sidebars, the

00:46:45   window materials, all that sort of stuff you can do to a catalyst catalyst app.

00:46:50   But if you're an iOS developer out there, and you're thinking, I'm just gonna hit the

00:46:52   checkbox and move on, it may work, but it's not going to be as good as what you could

00:46:58   do.

00:46:59   Okay, and I'm hoping that the market of Mac users will push developers into doing this

00:47:04   extra work that those who go the extra mile to really make their Mac app sort of more

00:47:11   well rounded on the Mac, that they'd be rewarded for that the

00:47:14   work in the market. And so we'll see how that goes. I think like

00:47:18   everything else, there will be examples of both good and bad,

00:47:21   well thought out and lazy work here. But it's clear to me that

00:47:26   as podcast as the example that clearly developers can make Mac

00:47:32   apps with catalysts that feel really good and behave the way

00:47:36   a user would expect, but it's not I guess I'm saying is it's

00:47:39   not a given that will require some extra time. And hopefully developers are planning for

00:47:44   that. I can't wait to see what works out. Like, I'm really I'm just like really intrigued

00:47:49   like how many apps are they going to be? What are they going to feel like? Like, I'm really

00:47:53   looking forward to that. Actually, I wanted to round this out talking about security,

00:47:57   because that's a big part of what they're doing in catalyst. That's really true. Every

00:48:02   year with Mac OS, there's always something this year it is driver kit, which moves kernel

00:48:07   extensions, basically into the user space. So kernel extensions, instead of working at

00:48:13   the kernel level or upper level, kind of the same permission level and access as user installed

00:48:19   applications. And I think Apple's done a pretty good job at prepping developers for this.

00:48:23   So they have multiple categories of kernel extensions, the driver kit supports, including

00:48:28   virtualization, which is the big one. So like if you install parallels or VMware Fusion,

00:48:33   have kernel extensions, that'll all just work. endpoint security, some networking stuff,

00:48:39   VPN applications sometimes need a kernel extension, serial support. So thank God we have that

00:48:46   driver kit still need that you're you're squared away. And they're saying that this is the

00:48:50   last year that kernel extensions as we know them, will run starting in 1016. Whatever's

00:48:56   after Catalina driver kit will be required. And that's a big change if you are using an

00:49:03   app that requires kernel extensions. A lot of people do. But you know, they've given

00:49:07   developers a year to, to prepare, I expect that this will cause problems with like big,

00:49:14   like fortune 500 companies and like their sort of it security software and McAfee and

00:49:20   all those things. I would expect a lot of civil break and Catalina or and definitely

00:49:25   the year after. So I would say that if you're an IT professional in those sorts of worlds,

00:49:31   pay special attention to this, get Catalina on a machine, talk to your vendors, because this is

00:49:37   potentially extremely disruptive. I think it's good for the platform and simply makes the

00:49:41   platform safer. Because I don't necessarily want software written by parallels, no offense to

00:49:47   parallels. But I don't know if I actually want their software running in my kernel space, like,

00:49:51   I was what Apple to be there. Because that's the heart of the machine, the kernel has access to

00:49:54   to so much data, so much information,

00:49:57   elevating that to the user space is a great security move.

00:50:01   But I think it's going to be a little bumpy in some cases.

00:50:04   So that's something to look out for if you

00:50:07   are reliant on those sorts of applications.

00:50:11   Is it weird to see, over the last few years,

00:50:15   it feels like Apple is really closing

00:50:18   a lot of these kinds of areas of stuff that kind of makes

00:50:22   Mac a Mac right like they've got that notarization thing coming to right where

00:50:28   it's like you don't have to come through the App Store but you have to do this

00:50:31   thing mm-hmm yeah that's that's something less wild West II then maybe

00:50:38   had in the past and I yeah I don't know if that's something that people are

00:50:42   getting concerned about particularly well even like the t2 chip no blocks

00:50:47   even doing certain things I see why they're doing it I mean I talked to

00:50:51   people who again, are in these sort of like really big IT environments, and a lot of that

00:50:55   stuff is a giant pain for them. And so I don't envy the problems that can create. But from

00:51:00   the platform perspective, I think what Apple is doing ultimately is good because it does

00:51:03   make the Mac more secure. And it makes the Mac hardened against sort of our environment

00:51:08   that we all exist in these days. But I think like the user threats for them. Well, I think

00:51:15   I think that that yes, that is that that's true.

00:51:19   I think if you look at these like security conferences and you know, Apple not disclosing

00:51:25   security issues and that sort of thing.

00:51:27   There have been opportunities for vulnerabilities on the Mac in the recent years.

00:51:32   The other part of this is though we talked about this.

00:51:35   But again, thinking about like the person with like the MacBook Air, who's going to

00:51:39   update to Catalina in September when it comes out, they're probably not going to notice

00:51:43   any of this.

00:51:44   But even though they don't, their Mac is more secure, and, and more kind of hardened.

00:51:52   And part of this is to is that the entire as the chat room is reminding me, the whole

00:51:56   operating system is now on a separate read only volume and APFS.

00:52:02   So your Mac OS itself, you can't actually tinker with anymore.

00:52:07   And I ran into this because I post the 5k wallpapers, the Catalina wallpaper is actually

00:52:12   6K, so it's an enormous file.

00:52:15   You've got a branding problem.

00:52:17   I know.

00:52:18   Finding that where it normally is, it was actually like sem-linked to a folder that

00:52:22   I couldn't write to.

00:52:24   I could only read it from it.

00:52:25   So I could copy them out of that folder, but I couldn't add anything to it.

00:52:28   It's like, "Oh, look at that.

00:52:30   You are separate."

00:52:31   And the Mac finder's doing everything to obscure all that, but they are making a lot of changes

00:52:36   under the hood to make the Mac more secure.

00:52:38   I just don't know if normal users would be impacted by that, but if you're an IT professional,

00:52:42   and you're deploying a bunch of Macs, some of this stuff no doubt is causing headaches.

00:52:47   I hear from those people and you're gonna have a fun summer with Driver Kit probably.

00:52:52   Yeah, because I would expect that like apps that would struggle with it, like security apps,

00:52:57   they will do what they need to do to update, but you've got to update. And that's not always

00:53:03   an easy thing to do in a large environment, I guess.

00:53:05   And there are things that Apple's removing that does impact people like that again,

00:53:09   chat room is talking about Apple's deprecating Python, Ruby and Perl and Catalina, like you

00:53:14   can just go install those elsewhere. Like I understand wanting it to be out of the box,

00:53:18   but you can just go install the command line tools, you can use something like homebrew.

00:53:22   So they're not closing off as many things as it may seem. They're just adjusting the

00:53:26   way the Mac has worked over the years. Another example, this I think may impact people is

00:53:33   file provider API for cloud storage providers. So this is how files syncs with Dropbox and

00:53:39   box and everything on iOS that's coming to the Mac and Catalina, which slipped under

00:53:45   the radar, I think last week, but it's potentially a huge deal because Dropbox does have its

00:53:51   fingers in a lot of parts of the OS that you know, some people don't like. And they if

00:53:55   they adopted this, it could be a cleaner implementation. Ironically, as we're talking today, Dropbox

00:54:00   released a new version that does a bunch of stuff so bad. It's also I think electron.

00:54:06   So get that going for it. So you know, maybe they will eventually adopt this but the Mac

00:54:12   is changing and and I think mostly for the better even though even though it does make

00:54:19   life for some people, admittedly more difficult but I think for me the headline with Catalina

00:54:25   And then we can move on is, I think the success of this version of Mac OS, or how big of a

00:54:31   deal it is, we won't know.

00:54:34   For several years, like Catalina will be remembered in five years of Oh, yeah, that's when iPad

00:54:40   apps came to the Mac.

00:54:41   And I'll remember how great that was.

00:54:42   Or do you remember what a dumpster fire happened?

00:54:45   You know, when people started doing that, and

00:54:47   lol, do you remember we thought we'd use the Mac App Store more?

00:54:50   Yeah.

00:54:51   And I expect I just say I expect catalyst to be successful.

00:54:54   I expect iPad apps to come to the Mac and it'd be good for the Mac and good for the

00:54:58   Mac users.

00:54:59   But catalyst will be judged on how that goes.

00:55:01   And so this feels like a really big release.

00:55:05   But sometimes that's true.

00:55:06   And then it doesn't pan out long term.

00:55:08   But I think catalyst will go in the Hall of Fame of Mac OS releases a few years down the

00:55:13   road.

00:55:14   We'll give it a trophy in three or four years.

00:55:15   I think it will be right.

00:55:16   Like I think it because it's an important one, whether it works or doesn't work like

00:55:19   it's incredibly important that Apple's made this move.

00:55:23   But now really the proof is in the pudding.

00:55:25   - It's in the marzipan, except we don't call it that anymore.

00:55:28   We're gonna talk about iPad OS,

00:55:30   and I don't know if we have anybody prepped for that.

00:55:32   So Myke, if you wanna make some phone calls,

00:55:34   I'll tell you about FreshBooks.

00:55:35   Sound good? - Yep.

00:55:36   - We can find somebody.

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00:57:20   Okay, Myke, did you find somebody was Casey able to dial in and tell us about iPad OS?

00:57:24   No, we're just gonna have to skip it.

00:57:27   Okay.

00:57:28   That's not a big deal.

00:57:29   I mean, we've got to skip it.

00:57:30   You know, they basically made it like the Mac, it seems like so.

00:57:33   I don't know.

00:57:35   But I'm still here.

00:57:37   Oh, hello.

00:57:39   I'm still listening.

00:57:41   I just want to hear where these go.

00:57:45   They put apps on it.

00:57:46   They finally, Windows, get apps,

00:57:50   they put they called Bill Gates and they say, hey, Bill, we need Windows on this

00:57:54   on this device. So we got 95 Windows 95.

00:57:58   That's what everyone's talking about.

00:58:00   Windows 95 is coming to the iPad.

00:58:02   It's brilliant.

00:58:03   Bunch of changes, really. You can now multitask with the pencil.

00:58:11   So like when you want to switch apps, you just poke the iPad and it moves between apps.

00:58:16   Tap the pencil on the side that you...

00:58:18   It's like you kind of treat the pencil like a magic wand.

00:58:21   Yeah, yeah.

00:58:21   So like you just flick the pencil where you want the app to go and it goes there

00:58:26   and you're like Leviosa and stuff and it just does its thing.

00:58:28   They brought back Touch ID, but now you have to basically touch the keyboard

00:58:35   with all of your fingers and it recognizes you.

00:58:37   All 10.

00:58:38   All 10.

00:58:39   It won't work.

00:58:40   Yeah, it's a new smart keyboard feature, a finger ID.

00:58:43   What else is new?

00:58:46   They have yeah, they have multitasking.

00:58:48   So now you can you can use 20 apps at a time, but no more than 20.

00:58:52   No less than 15.

00:58:55   So between 15 and 20 is your sweet spot.

00:59:01   Federico, what's going on in iPadOS?

00:59:03   Come on, Brit foots out of our misery.

00:59:05   Oh, but a bunch of things, bunch of things.

00:59:08   So, OK, I would say that there's four major areas,

00:59:13   if you were to look for key themes of iPadOS.

00:59:17   And that would be multitasking, file management, Safari,

00:59:21   and external USB and SD card devices, external storage

00:59:28   devices.

00:59:29   There's lots more changes, but I would

00:59:31   guess that these are the four major themes that

00:59:34   we'll be discussing.

00:59:36   So it is not a radical departure from iOS 11.

00:59:41   It is still based on that system in terms

00:59:45   of how you switch between apps, how you add apps

00:59:50   to multitasking.

00:59:51   There's still the separation between split view

00:59:54   and slide over is still there.

00:59:56   But the system has been enhanced in a variety of ways.

01:00:00   So you still bring apps into multitasking

01:00:03   by using drag and drop.

01:00:07   Right now, there's a couple of bugs in beta 1

01:00:09   where you cannot add an app from the home screen to multitasking.

01:00:15   I believe that's coming back.

01:00:18   And you can still do what you used to do in iOS 11.

01:00:20   You bring up the dock, and you grab an icon,

01:00:23   and you add it to split your slide over.

01:00:25   What's new in iPadOS is that in addition to icons,

01:00:29   you can drag content or views or items from apps

01:00:34   to create new windows.

01:00:37   This is the major new feature.

01:00:38   You can create multiple windows from the same app.

01:00:40   So remember before WWDC, we were all talking about

01:00:44   what's Apple gonna do like instances or tabs?

01:00:47   What are they gonna look like?

01:00:48   Well, turns out the answer is they're gonna be windows

01:00:51   and they're gonna call them windows.

01:00:53   They seem to be a little uncomfortable with the idea of,

01:00:56   well, these are not actually windows,

01:00:59   but it's what people use to describe this feature,

01:01:01   which is it's the same app,

01:01:03   but it's got a bunch of windows.

01:01:05   And so what you can do in iPadOS is

01:01:08   you can go the manual way, or you can use drag and drop.

01:01:12   The manual way consists of revealing expose,

01:01:17   which is now a feature in iPadOS.

01:01:19   So you can view the expose mode for an individual app.

01:01:24   This is done by...

01:01:26   This gets a bit complicated.

01:01:29   So, in theory, this is done by long pressing on an icon

01:01:33   on your iPad anywhere, in the dock, on the home screen,

01:01:37   and choosing the "All Windows" button.

01:01:42   These quick actions, by the way, are finally available on iPad as well.

01:01:47   Does it mean like when you 3D touch on an app icon?

01:01:50   Yeah, it's not 3D Touch because the iPad does not have 3D Touch, but it's part of the new

01:01:56   context menu API that Apple now supports on iPhone and iPad.

01:02:01   Have they killed that really stupid recents thing?

01:02:04   No, it's still there, I think.

01:02:06   Okay.

01:02:07   I think it's still there. It's above the Expose button. So if you have an app like Files,

01:02:13   you will have two little pop-ups.

01:02:16   Or at least, have they made it easier to access it? Because it was always

01:02:19   basically impossible to access it.

01:02:21   So the animation is still a bit, like,

01:02:24   could be fine tuned in the sense that when you long tap on an icon,

01:02:28   it shrinks back and then if you let go, it expands with this menu.

01:02:33   It kind of does make sense.

01:02:36   But I really believe Apple should refine it,

01:02:39   visually speaking, and make it a little more obvious.

01:02:42   Anyway, yeah, in the Exposé mode, so Exposé can be accessed

01:02:46   from this contextual menu or from... so let's say that you are in Safari, you

01:02:52   have Safari opening full screen, Safari is the only app you're using, if you open

01:02:56   the dock and tap on the Safari icon, that just once, if you tap once without long

01:03:02   pressing, that will immediately open Exposé. So if you want to see Exposé

01:03:07   for the app you're currently in, just tap the icon in the dock, if you want to see

01:03:11   Exposé for any app, no matter your location in the system, tap and hold and

01:03:16   choose Show All Windows. In Exposé there's a plus button and the plus button lets you create new

01:03:22   windows in full screen. I still think though that the best way to deal with windowing in iPadOS is

01:03:29   to use drag and drop. So you can drag for example a link from Safari and make it a new window,

01:03:35   or you can drag a note from Apple Notes and make it a separate window, or a document, or like

01:03:41   Anything that can be dragged in theory should become a window, whether it's a document or a specific view of an app.

01:03:49   For example, a listing reminder can also be dragged and dropped to become a new window.

01:03:54   To create a window, you drag an item to the side of the screen.

01:03:58   You can then choose to make it a split view, which is a bigger rectangle, or a slide over, which is a smaller rectangle.

01:04:07   Again, the design could probably be refined because it's still not completely obvious

01:04:12   what is split view and what is slide over before you actually drop an item.

01:04:18   You can now also drop something that you're dragging toward the top edge of the screen,

01:04:25   and that will create a new full screen window, which is an even bigger rectangle.

01:04:30   So a bunch of rectangles going on, really.

01:04:33   When you have multiple... it sounds complicated, it is when you describe it.

01:04:38   In practice, like, I'm an iOS 11 believer, so I still think the iOS 11 system was not

01:04:44   perfect but it was fine once you actually get used to it.

01:04:48   And I think this is also fine because the benefits that multi-windowing brings on iPad

01:04:53   are amazing.

01:04:55   You can have, for example, multiple windows in SlideOver and you can cycle through windows

01:05:01   either from the same app or from different apps.

01:05:04   And it's basically like the new slide over with Windows.

01:05:07   It's like having the iPhone 10 multitasking UI

01:05:10   just in slide over on the iPad.

01:05:13   It's basically an app picker for iPhone sized Windows on your iPad.

01:05:18   Can you, so I was thinking about this, right?

01:05:21   You could keep like just four apps there and you could just quit

01:05:25   whatever ones you want and just keep the four apps all the time, right?

01:05:29   Like it's just all windows even.

01:05:31   - Yeah, yeah.

01:05:32   It's a separate app switcher.

01:05:34   So like if you swipe up and pause,

01:05:37   it shows you the app switcher UI,

01:05:39   but just for the slide-over apps.

01:05:42   So you can close those windows

01:05:45   and keep a separate set of windows in the full app switcher.

01:05:49   All of your windows are shown again in Expose

01:05:54   on a per app basis or in the regular app switcher,

01:05:59   which is the multitasking UI that you get

01:06:01   when you swipe up on the home indicator.

01:06:04   And they will be mixed along with all of your other spaces.

01:06:09   There's some design changes that Apple is trying to,

01:06:13   is testing to make it a little more obvious

01:06:15   what is going on, for example, right now.

01:06:17   I have three Safari windows.

01:06:19   Two of them are paired together in a split view.

01:06:22   below the icon and the Safari name, one says google.com, the other says relay.fm.

01:06:31   So Apple is trying to label the views and the windows so that you actually know what

01:06:35   they're all about.

01:06:37   They're doing the same for messages conversations, for notes, for reminders lists.

01:06:43   Basically it's a way to say this is what these windows are all about.

01:06:47   It takes a while to get used to this system.

01:06:51   It's definitely a little intimidating at first when you see Exposé for apps on iPad, when

01:06:57   you see the multitasking UI with all of these windows.

01:07:02   But it actually works, and it's really awesome that you can have multiple, like the same

01:07:07   document open in multiple places, or two different notes open at the same time on screen, or

01:07:14   maybe just have like different messages, conversations while you're doing something and swipe through

01:07:20   them in slide over without having to do back and open this one then go back and open the

01:07:25   other one you can just swipe up see this is like the thing that i keep forgetting right

01:07:30   that it's not just apps it's windows like yes it's like a thing it's gonna take me some

01:07:39   time to get my to like to really like lock into that it does but it feels so nice it

01:07:47   It just sounds so nice.

01:07:49   Yeah, yeah.

01:07:52   I think they've done a decent job, at least in beta 1, at trying to extend the iOS 11

01:08:01   sort of design language and interactions to fit this new system.

01:08:06   So like basically most of the interactions are the same, drag and drop still works the

01:08:10   same but now you also have Windows.

01:08:14   Again, there's probably a few tweaks that Apple could do, for example, when you have

01:08:19   two apps in Split View, still a bit unclear which one is actually receiving keyboard input,

01:08:25   maybe there's a design tweak or something that Apple could do to make it a little more

01:08:29   obvious.

01:08:30   But yeah, and again, it depends on developers actually implementing Windows, which is a

01:08:36   fair amount of work because the technology is all based on this new API called the UI

01:08:41   Scene.

01:08:42   So developers actually have to put in some work. It's not like, "Oh, you automatically get Windows."

01:08:47   No, you gotta actually support iPadOS.

01:08:50   But yeah, that's one part of the story.

01:08:53   Oh, and there's also like, there's different new UIs for picking Windows.

01:09:00   I'm sure we'll talk about it in the summer and those will also get tweaked as the betas go on.

01:09:06   File management.

01:09:07   I mean, I think this is actually my favorite, mostly because I was not expecting all of these changes in the Files app all at once.

01:09:16   Column view, contextual menus, zip and unzip, access to SMB servers, access to USB drives and SD cards from Files.

01:09:29   You can share folders, improved search, so you can have actual search criteria in the search field,

01:09:37   more keyboard shortcuts, proper quick look, quick actions, sort of like on Mojave.

01:09:43   It's an awesome update. It feels like they went through all of the problems that people had and actually fixed them.

01:09:53   I'm holding my judgment because they've added a lot of great features, but some of the fundamental bugs of files are so stupid that I want to see that that stuff is fixed.

01:10:08   What are some of the fundamental bugs of files?

01:10:11   I would love it to remember what my favorites are. Just won't do that. I would love it to sometimes just, yeah, I've always had inconsistent...

01:10:19   So I can't add my favorites, they just disappear.

01:10:21   Yeah. Are your favorites from Dropbox? Yeah, that's the problem.

01:10:26   From the user perspective, it doesn't matter whose fault it is. It's a bug.

01:10:30   Yeah, it needs to be not like that, right? So like, no matter whose problem that is,

01:10:35   it needs to be not like that. And I think that Apple need to work harder to make sure

01:10:39   that stuff's in a way that Dropbox can fix it or work directly with Dropbox to fix it,

01:10:45   right? Like, if that's how they're going to tell me that I should be using Dropbox.

01:10:50   I was perfectly fine with the document picker, like the previous one, whatever it was called,

01:10:55   right? Where it would load up the view of Dropbox. Like that was more reliable in a lot of instances

01:10:59   than files is. So considering Apple forced every way to go down this route, I right, because no,

01:11:05   I can't choose a Dropbox file picker like in anywhere in the system unless an app has built

01:11:10   their own. So I need, I want to see that support working properly. But to be honest, it isn't just

01:11:17   Dropbox that I have problems with when I'm trying to download a file, right? And it just spins and

01:11:22   that happens in iCloud drive, right? Like when it just sits and spins and what am I supposed to do?

01:11:27   Like it's like a 20k file, like what are you doing? And it's just spinning and there's nothing I can

01:11:32   do to get it and it's just stuck, right? So like stuff like that I want to see fixed. I'm really

01:11:37   excited about all of these additions but I really want to see the underpinnings made a bit better

01:11:42   too because it's really important if I'm going to be supposed to be using and managing my files this

01:11:47   Well that's a bummer.

01:11:49   I was really...

01:11:50   Yeah, I have had consistent problems with the files app.

01:11:53   I was really excited about this one.

01:11:54   I'm excited about it too!

01:11:55   Like, it's still good, all this stuff is still good,

01:11:58   but I really hope that they've also done work to shore up the basics,

01:12:04   as well as adding all these amazing features.

01:12:06   Behind the scenes there's changes to the file bookmarks API,

01:12:12   API, so the thing that I described in my iPad story a few weeks ago got even

01:12:17   better for developers now, so you actually get access to the entire

01:12:21   contents of an external folder, including subfolders, so apps that work with this

01:12:27   kind of stuff, like working copy and IE writer could actually get even better

01:12:31   because the API has been improved. But yeah, I mean, I am going to, as soon as

01:12:38   I'm recording this podcast on an iPad and as soon as I'm done recording I will take the SD card

01:12:43   from the recorder that I'm using and plug it into my iPad and get the file from there.

01:12:48   No more crazy hacks and workarounds to get the file wirelessly from like a third-party wi-fi box.

01:13:00   So I'm pretty excited about all of this. Moving on, third major feature Safari desktop class

01:13:07   browsing, this is also really, really impressive. Of course, Apple changed the

01:13:14   user agent of Safari for iPad to Safari for Mac, but that's not all. They did a

01:13:20   lot of work in the WebKit engine to render desktop websites on

01:13:27   iPad and dynamically alter the viewport so that the content could actually scale

01:13:34   able to fit the iPad screen while displaying a desktop

01:13:37   layout, while also maintaining text at a legible size.

01:13:42   And in addition to that, they added support

01:13:47   for pointer events, which I believe

01:13:49   is a CSS property that lets you abstract interactions,

01:13:54   whether it's touch, click, or stylus,

01:13:56   and it works with all of those input systems.

01:13:59   They also supported media source extensions,

01:14:02   which is another web API to stream audio and video content through JavaScript.

01:14:08   All of these, and of course they mapped by, they did a lot of work to map a tap to a click,

01:14:16   because of course you don't click on an iPad, you actually tap the screen.

01:14:19   But in doing that, they also needed to reconcile how you scroll on a desktop computer,

01:14:26   and how you scroll on an iPad, but also how on a desktop PC you have a trackpad, you have a cursor,

01:14:33   and therefore you can hover over website elements to like reveal menus or expand navigation elements.

01:14:42   On an iPad that's not possible, we don't have the concept of hovering over the screen, you just touch the screen.

01:14:48   [LAUGHTER]

01:14:50   Hold on.

01:14:51   Hold on.

01:14:52   Hold on.

01:14:54   So they did some work there to also make sure

01:14:57   that you could-- even if you tap,

01:14:59   but if it's a hover element, it will not navigate.

01:15:01   It will actually expand the menu.

01:15:03   So there's a lot of work behind the scenes

01:15:05   that went to sort of improve all of this.

01:15:07   The result is that popular websites, they all now

01:15:11   work on the iPad.

01:15:13   I'm using Google Docs right now, looking at it right now.

01:15:15   And it works just fine, including

01:15:16   comments and real-time chat and text styles. I tested the YouTube desktop site,

01:15:21   I tested Netflix, I was able to stream Netflix in iPad Safari, WordPress,

01:15:29   Squarespace, Zapier, which was impossible to use on iPad before. They're all fine

01:15:34   now. This is gonna be the big difference, I think, for many people. I was

01:15:41   talking to Adina about it last night, she was like, "Tell me what I might be

01:15:43   interested in. And when we were talking about it, she was like, "Oh, I was trying to check in for my

01:15:48   flight on my iPad and I couldn't choose my seat." And I was like, "Well, all that stuff's going to

01:15:53   be fixed." And she was like, "Oh, I might use it more now." Right? And I think that is so many

01:15:57   people could be like, "Oh, okay." Right? Like if the web just, all of it just works, I'll just use

01:16:00   my iPad. I think it's going to be a huge difference for a lot of just more general users, including

01:16:08   professional users, right? Like the more general user might not care that you can zip and unzip in

01:16:13   files, but they will care that their bank app is going to work. No, their bank website will work,

01:16:18   I should say. Because the web is a catch all, right? If you don't have an app for something or

01:16:23   don't want to install it, again, something simple like checking in for a flight, I don't want to

01:16:27   install my airline's app for that. I just want to do it on the web, right? And this lets the iPad

01:16:32   finally, after a decade, be a full like a citizen of the full web. And that's really exciting. I

01:16:41   I agree with you, Myke, I feel like out of all this stuff, that may be the most important,

01:16:46   because it unlocks the iPad for so many more uses for so many more users that just were

01:16:53   so frustrated by simple things, right?

01:16:55   I think it's also kind of an F you to Chromebooks.

01:16:58   Yeah.

01:16:59   Because I would expect that Apple is kind of sick of the comparisons when talking about

01:17:05   real computers, and that somehow, everyone will just say, Oh, well, a Chromebook is more

01:17:10   of a real computer because it has a full desktop browser, which I don't necessarily think is

01:17:16   a thing because most people, I think in a lot of instances, will tell you they prefer

01:17:20   apps anyway. But it's a comparison in the same way that I've been saying about, well,

01:17:27   one of the main reasons I reckon they added external storage devices is just so they stop

01:17:31   getting compared to devices that can do it. And this could be another one of those things

01:17:35   where it's like, well, now this is something you can't stack up a Chromebook against the

01:17:40   the iPad and say that the Chromebook is more of a computer than the iPad because the iPad

01:17:44   also has a full desktop browser now. So come at me. Right? Yeah. And it, it gives people

01:17:52   who rely on, you know, something as simple as, Hey, I have to upload stuff to my CMS.

01:18:00   And it didn't work like so many like really specific problems. And those are the types

01:18:05   of problems that keep people off a platform. To your point, right? If you have two things

01:18:10   you do at work every day, and one of them just doesn't work on the iPad, the iPad isn't

01:18:14   a viable computer replacement for you know, it's useless to you then 50% of your work

01:18:19   can't be done. So what are you gonna do? And so I think this is a huge deal. I'm so glad

01:18:23   they finally were able to tackle this. And it seems like they did it in a way that is

01:18:28   going to be pretty bulletproof. I mean, I haven't spent much time with it. But it seems

01:18:31   like the way they've implemented this, I'm sure there will still be the app here or web

01:18:35   app or website here or there that doesn't work with this. But it seems like they've

01:18:39   built a robust enough system to basically accommodate anything within the realm of sort

01:18:44   of normal web standards.

01:18:46   And that's really exciting to me.

01:18:48   There's a download manager now in Safari that allows you to finally download files and shows

01:18:54   you progress.

01:18:55   And you can have multiple downloads going on in a little window, like on a Mac.

01:19:01   Poor iCab, really.

01:19:04   You can also specify your default download location,

01:19:09   including file providers.

01:19:11   So any folder--

01:19:12   OK, I wanted to ask you about that.

01:19:14   So if I'm in Safari on the iPad, I

01:19:16   could download directly to Dropbox

01:19:19   without having to set through files.

01:19:20   Like Safari just sends things to Dropbox automatically?

01:19:23   Yeah, you can select that in Settings.

01:19:25   That's exciting.

01:19:26   So you have to set it first.

01:19:27   You can't just be like, download it here.

01:19:29   But you would say in Settings, put it

01:19:31   in this folder in Dropbox.

01:19:32   and that's just where it's gonna go.

01:19:35   - Yes, and by default it goes to iCloud Drive/downloads,

01:19:40   but there's a settings screen in Safari settings

01:19:43   to manage downloads and what happens to them.

01:19:46   - That is just, I mean, it's a great feature,

01:19:48   but that is a surprising feature.

01:19:49   - And I guess that they wanted to give people choice

01:19:52   of like, "No, I don't wanna waste my iCloud space."

01:19:54   - It really feels like the Safari team on iPad

01:19:57   were kind of allowed to do whatever they wanted,

01:20:00   'cause so much of this feels like,

01:20:01   "Wow, you really did a lot! You didn't just take a step into this, you just went all in

01:20:08   on this!" Right? Because the next point you have is another one, is keyboard shortcuts.

01:20:12   There's way more keyboard shortcuts than is necessary! They put them all in there! And

01:20:16   so it's wild, it's really amazing!

01:20:21   Basically all of the keyboard shortcuts from the Mac now work on an iPad, including Command

01:20:25   1 to Command 9 to switch between tabs.

01:20:28   Oh sweet, I use those every day.

01:20:31   Yeah, yeah, you can show the Download Manager with the keyboard shortcut.

01:20:35   Why?

01:20:36   I love that, but why?

01:20:38   It's so good!

01:20:39   Command-Option-L, that's the Download Manager, of course.

01:20:45   Same as the Mac, the Mac has that, why would the iPad not?

01:20:48   Exactly.

01:20:49   And, get this, this feels like the kind of feature that was done exactly for me, Command-S

01:20:55   you save a web page as a .webarchive file, which I absolutely love because web archives

01:21:02   do not get enough love these days. They are full offline copies of a web page that you

01:21:08   can store for reference later. And they are better than PDF documents. Do not come at

01:21:13   me. I prefer web archives. How do you view your web archives? Oh, for like, for the,

01:21:19   How do I use or store?

01:21:21   View them.

01:21:22   Oh, a quick look.

01:21:23   They are natively previewed now.

01:21:25   Yeah.

01:21:26   So Safari, yeah, pretty amazing update, honestly, and there's even more.

01:21:31   For example, this is wild.

01:21:32   If you have a bunch of tabs open, like you're doing research on a topic, if you long press

01:21:38   the bookmarks icon, you will get the option to save all of those tabs as bookmarks.

01:21:45   It's like, let me save all of these working set of web pages as a bookmark.

01:21:51   Or you have a folder full of bookmarks?

01:21:55   Well, if you long press the folder, you can reopen all of the bookmarks in new tabs.

01:22:00   Again, it's like, why?

01:22:02   Why did you add that?

01:22:04   I'm so pleased you did.

01:22:06   But at what point was it like, I know what we need to do.

01:22:09   Right?

01:22:10   Do you know what this feels like?

01:22:13   This feels like a team that's been working on something for a few years. Right? This

01:22:19   is what happens when they're sitting on this stuff for a couple of years. We've got a couple

01:22:23   of years worth of work in one. I'm so excited. Alright, I'm probably gonna move to Safari

01:22:28   now, right? That's probably what's gonna happen.

01:22:30   Oh yeah, you're still using Chrome. I always forget.

01:22:34   Or I could just use Safari as this very specific working tool, which is probably also what

01:22:39   I do. We'll see what happens.

01:22:41   I really don't understand why you don't just use Chrome with Safari.

01:22:44   I've explained it to you many times.

01:22:46   My history is synced across all my devices if I use Chrome,

01:22:49   because Safari on the Mac is not as good as Chrome on the Mac.

01:22:52   Also with Safari.

01:22:54   Chrome on the Mac works better for Google Docs.

01:22:56   What's the problem?

01:22:57   Yep. Oh, I see.

01:23:00   Yeah. Really? Not wrong.

01:23:01   Yeah, it's better.

01:23:02   I mean, I've been I mean, maybe I don't use it to your extent,

01:23:06   but I've been fine with Safari on the Mac.

01:23:09   Maybe it's gotten better over time,

01:23:10   but it's one of those things where I got burned. So I just,

01:23:13   one thing that, uh, your comment about a team, we've worked on it for a long time.

01:23:18   I get the impression, I'm gonna see what the two of you think that Apple,

01:23:21   maybe three, four or five years ago would basically roll out something at the

01:23:26   year Mark. You know, maybe we would get some of the Safari stuff,

01:23:30   but not all of it at once.

01:23:32   And now it really seems to me like they are willing to hold features until they

01:23:37   have a bigger, more complete picture.

01:23:40   So instead of just getting a download manager or just getting new short cousin Safari we get this whole new Safari all in one

01:23:47   big

01:23:49   update and I

01:23:51   Think while that is frustrating in the short term because yet having a download manager two years ago or a year ago

01:23:57   If it were ready hypothetically, that'd be great. But now we're getting like a whole new Safari and it's like a really big deal

01:24:04   One do you do you all feel that that's a thing that's happening or am I just sort of making this up and two if it

01:24:10   is happening, do you think that is a better or worse strategy from the user

01:24:14   perspective? Yes and better. Okay. I do think it's happening and I think it's

01:24:19   better because whilst it can frustrate people like me and Federico who feel

01:24:24   like we're waiting for features that should be there, when they arrive if they

01:24:28   are more complete they're more likely to be used, right? Because people won't

01:24:33   bounce off them if they use it and say "this is rubbish" or it's like "oh you told me

01:24:37   this was this but it's not right then people will be more likely to actually

01:24:41   spend time with them which is more important at the end of the day so I

01:24:45   think that this is I think this is great and I'm pleased if that is the method

01:24:50   that they are taking then in theory I am in on it but it but what you know what I

01:24:54   would want to see though is like it's not that all of iPad OS takes two years

01:24:59   to make revisions to but that they kind of stagger it right so like this year

01:25:04   you'll get these types of features and on this year you'll get these types of features.

01:25:08   You know what I mean?

01:25:09   So don't align all of your teams at the same cadence.

01:25:13   Split them up a little bit so you get some of this and some of that but still adding

01:25:17   new stuff every year.

01:25:18   Yeah, I agree with that.

01:25:19   Even though it is a little annoying when you're on the off year and you get nothing.

01:25:25   Right, but that's what I mean.

01:25:27   I need to try and make every year an on year but the on years are always smaller.

01:25:32   you don't need to do massive stuff, right? You don't, they don't need to do what they've

01:25:37   done this year every year, right? This year is huge. Next year, just give me some smaller

01:25:42   stuff but show me that there's still stuff going on. And like, and then we can just have

01:25:47   that as the mode to just give me some stuff every year. You don't need to overhaul everything

01:25:51   every two years.

01:25:52   Yeah, it's like that expression. Like, I guess it works in English too, like better an egg

01:25:59   today than a hen tomorrow and you always want to wait for the hen because that

01:26:04   hen is gonna give you more eggs so you never want the egg actually so

01:26:08   what I'm saying is you actually want to wait two years and you got all of

01:26:12   the features. Sure. No, no I want the eggs not the hen. No you don't want the eggs

01:26:19   you want the hen and the hen will give you more eggs. No because I want some stuff

01:26:24   every year, right? But what I'm saying is spend the time working on the features, but

01:26:30   don't lock them all in on the same cycle, right? So like the Safari team, it might take

01:26:36   them two years to make something bigger again. That's fine. Let them take their two years,

01:26:42   but don't have the Files team working on the same two year cycle. Have them working on

01:26:46   a two year cycle, but have their kind of release time on the off year of the Safari team.

01:26:51   But what if they depend on each other for some features and they actually need to come

01:26:55   out at the same time?

01:26:56   Well, then you hold those ones, I don't know.

01:26:58   What I'm saying is I like the idea of them spending more time refining stuff and making

01:27:03   it better, but not at the case of like, now we have to wait the maximum amount of time

01:27:10   always, you know?

01:27:11   Like spend the time working on it, but don't feel that you need to put it all out at the

01:27:15   same time.

01:27:16   Like you can kind of put it out a little bit more when it's ready.

01:27:20   To round up iPadOS updates, as I mentioned,

01:27:24   we have Quick Actions on the home screen now.

01:27:27   So you can long press icons, and you get the 3D Touch menu

01:27:31   and Quick Actions, even though the iPad does not

01:27:33   have 3D Touch.

01:27:35   This also works on iPhones, where

01:27:37   Peek and Pop, the 3D Touch system,

01:27:40   is gone, replaced by the Context menus and Haptic Touch,

01:27:44   basically.

01:27:46   So get ready.

01:27:48   Can you not preview an iMessage anymore?

01:27:50   Umm... let's see...

01:27:52   Yeah, you can, but it's different from Peek & Pop.

01:27:55   It's based on the new context menu thing.

01:27:58   I just want to be able to still read my messages without affecting the read receipt status.

01:28:02   That's all I want to be able to do.

01:28:04   The functionality...

01:28:05   The functionality is still the same.

01:28:07   That's a pro move, by the way.

01:28:09   If you use read receipts, you can just use Peek & Pop to read the message

01:28:13   without changing the read receipt status.

01:28:15   Mmm.

01:28:16   Just be careful!

01:28:17   Mmm-hmm.

01:28:17   If you press too hard, then you'll open the message.

01:28:19   But that is my pro my pro move.

01:28:23   Yeah. The home screen also has widgets now,

01:28:27   so you can pin your favorite widgets to the left side of the home screen.

01:28:30   And I want to ask you guys, I think we were all under the impression

01:28:34   that Apple would do a little more to the home screen than just widgets.

01:28:38   This feels like the most obvious approach.

01:28:41   They went with the easiest possible option, but they at least did something.

01:28:46   But yes, but not even widgets mixed with icons, just widgets on the side.

01:28:53   No, they were just like, you know that widget view that's over there, we're just gonna bring it here.

01:28:58   Like just move it a little closer, but that's it.

01:29:02   At least they did the like six by six grid of apps, so like it doesn't move around anymore.

01:29:07   Look, they did the bare minimum, but they at least did the bare minimum,

01:29:11   because they haven't done the bare minimum in a long time.

01:29:15   But they didn't, yes.

01:29:17   Finally, there's going to be a bunch more features that will probably come out in future betas

01:29:23   that we'll discuss in future episodes, but we gotta mention this one today.

01:29:27   You can now use a mouse or a trackpad with your iPad, either via USB or Bluetooth, it's gonna work.

01:29:35   As we mentioned a few episodes ago, it's an accessibility option.

01:29:41   It's enabled in AssistiveTouch that will give you a new pointing devices menu once you connect a USB or Bluetooth mouse or trackpad.

01:29:50   And not only that, you can program individual buttons of a mouse to perform specific actions that are supported by AssistiveTouch.

01:29:59   So what I did when I was waiting for... I had a four-hour layover that became a six-hour layover in Inthro a few days ago.

01:30:09   That's a good workflow you had, you needed more time, delayed the flight.

01:30:13   Yeah.

01:30:13   That's cool.

01:30:14   So I went to an electronics store and I bought the Logitech M...

01:30:20   MS? MX? Master...

01:30:23   The MX Master S.

01:30:24   2S. 2S, I think.

01:30:27   Which has four buttons that you can program, or five buttons actually,

01:30:32   that you can program with the assistive touch menu in iMpadOS.

01:30:38   And it's amazing because I can now, left click is tap, right click is go home, button 3 is

01:30:46   show the dock, button 4 I actually forgot, because I don't have the menu here with me

01:30:52   right now.

01:30:54   But it's amazing, so it's not perfect because the cursor, like Apple is making a big deal

01:31:00   out of communicating how this is an accessibility feature, this is not actually, oh the iPads,

01:31:06   Now they all work with mouse and trackpad like on a Mac.

01:31:11   You don't have all of the design considerations that go into actually supporting a pointing

01:31:16   device.

01:31:17   Even though you can connect a mouse, you get an accessibility cursor.

01:31:21   You don't actually get a real cursor.

01:31:23   There's no actual real support, for example, in UIKit for hover state for a mouse.

01:31:30   There's no automatic resizing of UI elements when a mouse is connected.

01:31:35   a lot more work that Apple could do to properly support mice and trackpads.

01:31:41   My understanding is that this is the easiest path for Apple to have some basic support

01:31:47   right now for using a mouse or a trackpad with an iPad.

01:31:52   Still, despite the fact that it's not perfect and the cursor is too big and the click area

01:31:57   is too small, it actually works.

01:32:01   I've been using my iPad Pro, connected to the Ultrafine display with the Logitech mouse

01:32:08   and I can now interact exclusively with the UI on the Ultrafine, on the monitor, because

01:32:17   I have a mouse and I have a cursor and I can click stuff, I don't have to look down at

01:32:21   my iPad anymore because that mouse gets the job done.

01:32:26   And I'm so happy that it works, even though it's not perfect, it lets me do what I always

01:32:30   wanted to do which is have an iOS interface on a 4k monitor without

01:32:33   actually having to look down at my iPad all the time.

01:32:38   So yeah it's very nice it's very nice and you can actually do you know you can

01:32:44   do drag and drop you can resize view with the mouse basically it simulates a

01:32:50   finger so all that you can do with a finger can be done with the mouse again

01:32:53   not perfect could be a lot better maybe Apple could actually improve it during

01:32:58   the beta, it doesn't have to be this way.

01:33:00   Even though you're not actually saying,

01:33:03   no, this is just for accessibility, yes, we get it.

01:33:06   It could still make it better.

01:33:08   And again, the whole theme of accessibility

01:33:10   is to empower everyone.

01:33:12   And a way to empower everyone would

01:33:15   be to actually make this existing

01:33:16   feature a little better.

01:33:17   Even though you don't have hover state in UIKit

01:33:20   or automatically resizing elements,

01:33:23   it could still be a little better.

01:33:24   It could still make it a little smaller

01:33:26   or make it the size like a user choice.

01:33:29   There's things that they could do, but we'll see.

01:33:32   File your feedback reports, people, right now.

01:33:35   It's the best time to do so.

01:33:37   And that's it for IOS.

01:33:40   - All right, we're gonna wrap up by talking about IOS 13

01:33:44   and some CarPlay stuff,

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01:35:47   So let's cover a few iOS 13 features

01:35:50   that are not in iPad OS or that we haven't spoken about.

01:35:53   Like we're not going to talk about reminders or whatever,

01:35:55   because we spoke about that earlier.

01:35:57   Dark mode is here.

01:36:00   It looks great.

01:36:01   You know, I'm really happy with the way that Apple decided to implement that.

01:36:05   The way that you enable it is kind of strange.

01:36:08   There's like it's not in control center as its own dedicated button.

01:36:12   You have to go into the brightness tile and control center,

01:36:15   and there's a button there, which is interesting.

01:36:19   But you can also set it on a timer.

01:36:21   I would expect not a lot of people are going to be like turning it on and off just like

01:36:25   randomly.

01:36:26   You're either going to leave it on or you'll put it on a timer and you'll probably go that

01:36:29   way.

01:36:30   I reckon that's how most people will probably interact with dark mode.

01:36:34   And Catalina picked that up as well on the Mac.

01:36:36   You can have dark mode go off at a set time.

01:36:38   Oh yeah, you couldn't do that before, right?

01:36:41   Right before it was a manual switch.

01:36:43   Yeah.

01:36:44   It's pretty nice.

01:36:45   There are APIs for third party apps, right?

01:36:47   So if dark mode is enabled and an app has a dark mode themselves, they can have the

01:36:53   system automatically switch it to them.

01:36:57   This feature will inevitably spawn a million dark mode themes, which is great.

01:37:01   I mean, a lot of big apps have them themselves anyway, right?

01:37:05   Even huge apps like Twitter have it, right?

01:37:08   They have dark mode.

01:37:09   They have a gray and a black mode.

01:37:12   But having the APIs there so it can be set automatically.

01:37:15   So if you're expecting dark mode, you're not going to get retina piercing white, which

01:37:19   will be really great.

01:37:20   So I'm excited about that.

01:37:24   There are also new wallpapers in iOS 13, like the default stock wallpapers.

01:37:28   They have these little icons on them which mean that they will dynamically change from

01:37:34   bright to dark in the background when you switch to dark mode.

01:37:38   But there's also a setting where you can have the system dim your wallpaper when you're

01:37:43   in dark mode if you set your own. So that's really cool. So that's dark mode.

01:37:48   Shortcuts, we covered shortcuts I feel like last week. It's based into the

01:37:52   system all in one place. Automation looks amazing, very exciting. Photos looks

01:37:57   really good. It has that refined design that uses machine learning to pick out

01:38:01   images from years, months and days. Tries to highlight what it thinks are your best

01:38:05   photos and the photo editing tools are much better and can be used on video.

01:38:11   sign in with Apple which is a great thing right which allows you to yeah if

01:38:16   services need an account you can then they usually typically be like hey sign

01:38:20   in with Facebook or sign in with Google Apple can do this for you and I think

01:38:24   something that we didn't know when we last spoke about this is that Apple will

01:38:28   be enforcing this in applications that use third-party signups so if you're an

01:38:33   app and you say sign in with Google to get through app review you also have to

01:38:37   have a sign-in with Apple, which is good and interesting and maybe slightly bad, but it's

01:38:44   a thing that they're doing, right?

01:38:45   Like you know, it's like I'm pleased that it exists as a user.

01:38:50   It is always a bit awkward when Apple forced something on you as a developer or as users,

01:38:57   right?

01:38:58   Because it's like, okay, I feel like you're trying to be good here, but you're doing a

01:39:02   weird thing, right?

01:39:04   Like you're doing something that we would say other companies were being bad about,

01:39:08   but you're coming at it from a privacy perspective.

01:39:11   But now everyone is supposedly coming at everything from privacy perspectives.

01:39:16   But I think that it's a good thing, but it is also a little bit like, "Ah, app review."

01:39:22   Yeah, there's an interview over on The Verge that went up, I think right before we started

01:39:28   recording.

01:39:29   And it is talking with Mark Risser, who is the product

01:39:34   management director for Android.

01:39:36   And the Apple sign-on came up.

01:39:40   And basically, he was saying that Google

01:39:42   doesn't do the things that Apple is sort of painting

01:39:45   Google is doing.

01:39:45   And they didn't get called out.

01:39:47   But Apple sort of painted this picture of,

01:39:49   we're not going to track or anything.

01:39:51   We don't know if the other guys are tracking.

01:39:53   They can't be trusted.

01:39:54   And he sort of goes into detail about how

01:39:56   the sign-in with Google works.

01:39:57   and they're doing no tracking.

01:39:59   - Good for them.

01:40:00   - They're not using it for advertising.

01:40:02   So it's an alternative.

01:40:04   I wouldn't use the sign in with Facebook,

01:40:07   but it seems like Google at least is handling it

01:40:10   closer to the way Apple is than maybe Apple insinuated.

01:40:13   - And they have the swipe keyboard

01:40:17   so you can do the swipe typing.

01:40:20   But they didn't do anything of emoji search.

01:40:22   Come on, Apple.

01:40:23   - Why not?

01:40:24   Why not?

01:40:25   - Come on.

01:40:26   How hard is it to put a little search field in the emoji box?

01:40:30   Come on.

01:40:30   Well, they have it on the Mac and it doesn't work.

01:40:32   So maybe it's tricky.

01:40:34   I mean, it kind of works.

01:40:35   They've got to do it.

01:40:35   But it doesn't work great.

01:40:36   But at least it's something.

01:40:38   Like, come on, Apple.

01:40:39   Come on.

01:40:40   Come on.

01:40:40   Mm-hmm.

01:40:41   That's iOS 13.

01:40:42   Oh, and there's a new volume indicator.

01:40:44   Woo-boo.

01:40:46   Buried the lead there, Myke.

01:40:47   I know.

01:40:48   People would have rioted, though, if that wasn't fixed.

01:40:52   So I'm pleased that they didn't fix it.

01:40:53   Or if they made it take over the whole screen.

01:40:55   the whole screen instead of I'll show you. Oh, you said you want to make it not as big.

01:41:02   I misread the feedback. They should have it that like the louder the volume, the bigger

01:41:06   the indicator. Like it just physically gets bigger. And if you're a max volume, it just

01:41:10   covers the entire screen. Yeah. Or if Casey comes in, it just covers the screen. The phone

01:41:15   explodes. I want to talk about CarPlay before we for we wrap up today as part of iOS CarPlay

01:41:21   has been pretty static, I think it's fair to say since its launch. And they've added,

01:41:27   you know, app types and things, but the general UI of CarPlay hasn't changed all that much.

01:41:32   That is different this time. So you have what's called the CarPlay dashboard, which is an

01:41:36   excellent name and every way that I 100% back and it gives you kind of a tile view of maps.

01:41:44   Did you mean that?

01:41:45   Media. I think it's a great name.

01:41:47   Okay, great. I like it too. I just wasn't sure if you would be

01:41:50   It's like a dashboard aren't on carplay in your dashboard in your car and it's playing dashboards all the way down

01:41:57   right, if if your dashboard feels guilty, maybe it could have a dashboard confessional I

01:42:02   Resisted the joke. I resisted it

01:42:05   I told you that there would be a was pun than my one and we found it

01:42:11   It took until the end of the episode, but we did definitely get there

01:42:14   hmm, so

01:42:16   This new UI gives you kind of a tile view of maps media playback. You can tell it to give you Siri suggestions

01:42:23   Which will surface?

01:42:25   Things that Siri suggests that you do based on location of time and all that stuff. So hey, you're backing out of your driveway

01:42:31   Normally you close your garage door with home kit. Maybe you want to make sure that was done

01:42:35   So that's cool. I don't know how useful the series additions will be for everybody if you're not really

01:42:40   Into the rest of the ecosystem so you can't actually turn this off. There's a new settings app in CarPlay

01:42:46   There's also a new relatively simple calendar app, which I think is a great idea. It will

01:42:52   show you your upcoming events and if there are locations tied to those events. So hey,

01:42:57   I'm going to this meeting at this address, you can tap on it and maps will pull the pull

01:43:04   the address up. That makes sense. I was like, why would you need a calendar in the car?

01:43:08   And that makes a lot of sense why you'd want a calendar and a car. Maps already does some

01:43:12   of that where if you have an upcoming event, it will surface that in the map.

01:43:16   See why on the phone.

01:43:17   So it's kind of making that all a little bit more robust.

01:43:20   There's also a redesigned music app that looks really good.

01:43:22   I have not installed I was 13 on my iPhone.

01:43:25   But when I do, I plan to do some more stuff around carplay because I think it's an interesting

01:43:29   platform.

01:43:30   A really key change that I've complained about others have is say that you have your car

01:43:37   parked in a parking spot out of gear, the emergency brakes on.

01:43:41   - Yeah. - Not driving.

01:43:43   Not driving. - Yeah, okay.

01:43:45   I really like how very particular you were with that.

01:43:49   - Really trying to be careful how I say this.

01:43:51   If you had, say you had overcast playing,

01:43:53   and you had overcast on the CarPlay screen,

01:43:55   and then you opened messages on your iPhone--

01:43:59   - While you're completely stationary in the car park.

01:44:02   - While completely stationary in a car park.

01:44:04   - In neutral.

01:44:06   - Wearing your seatbelt, just in case.

01:44:08   - Okay.

01:44:09   messages have come up on the CarPlay screen.

01:44:11   And then Siri would be like,

01:44:12   oh, do you want me to read you new messages?

01:44:13   And it was infuriating,

01:44:15   because basically the iPhone display and CarPlay

01:44:17   were linked, it was like,

01:44:19   CarPlay was like a projector

01:44:20   of what was happening on your iPhone.

01:44:22   And they've broken that link now,

01:44:23   so you can have an app open on your phone

01:44:26   and it won't change modes in CarPlay.

01:44:29   This is also really common if you're riding with somebody

01:44:31   and then you hand them your phone to pick music or something

01:44:35   and you're looking at navigation,

01:44:37   you miss a turn because they're in the music app.

01:44:39   Like, it's giving you more flexibility.

01:44:41   I think that's a good change.

01:44:43   There's also a lot of stuff for future cars.

01:44:45   So all the stuff I've talked about so far,

01:44:47   existing cars will just get

01:44:48   because it comes from the iPhone.

01:44:50   But if car manufacturers wanna do more,

01:44:54   there are now more options.

01:44:55   So a lot of cars now, instead of a traditional gauge cluster

01:44:58   they're basically using a screen behind the steering wheel

01:45:02   and it shows you a digital representation

01:45:03   of your speedometer or your tack or whatever you want.

01:45:07   And now CarPlay can project onto those screens as well.

01:45:11   And there's support for multiple screens,

01:45:14   resizing the CarPlay window, projecting CarPlay

01:45:18   into an irregular shaped screen.

01:45:21   This stuff will require car manufacturers

01:45:24   to adopt it in the future.

01:45:26   So if you have a car now with a digital screen instead

01:45:32   speedometer you're not going to get this on day one it seems like but maybe with

01:45:37   a firmware update to your car or if you trade it in in a couple years your next

01:45:41   one would have it so Apple's being responsive responsive to modern car

01:45:45   design and and lastly new cars can enable the ahoy telephone without

01:45:52   pushing a button so you can just speak out to Siri and that seems like it's

01:45:57   only new cars but I'm not positive on that point so I don't think that's

01:46:00   coming to existing existing installs. That doesn't make sense to me because I thought

01:46:05   everything we knew about that feature required some kind of architectural chip change in

01:46:13   Apple devices. How it works is it listens for the wake words through the car's microphone

01:46:21   and then routes that to the iPhone ever lightning or wirelessly if you have wireless carplay.

01:46:25   And so I believe the changes that the car microphone has to always be listening and

01:46:29   And I think that's why it's only future cars or cars

01:46:32   after some sort of firmware update.

01:46:33   I don't think my aftermarket CarPlay unit will get

01:46:36   that particular feature, but time will tell.

01:46:39   So that's a little ambiguous in watching Apple sessions,

01:46:41   whether the Ahoy!

01:46:42   Telephone wake word will show up for everybody.

01:46:45   But at the very least, it can be available in new cars.

01:46:48   But all in all, it's good to see CarPlay be evolved.

01:46:52   I've really enjoyed having CarPlay in my truck

01:46:54   the last six months or so since I installed that head unit.

01:46:57   And it's in so many new cars now.

01:46:59   I'm glad Apple is taking some time to improve it.

01:47:02   I think the dashboard in particular

01:47:04   is going to make it feel much more modern and powerful.

01:47:06   So CarPlay looks really great in iOS 13.

01:47:08   I'm excited to try it out.

01:47:10   They said it couldn't be done, but we did it.

01:47:12   That's all of it.

01:47:13   We talked about all the things.

01:47:15   So if you want to catch up on show notes, links to things

01:47:20   we talked about, or articles we mentioned,

01:47:22   you can check in the podcast app.

01:47:23   You're listening again.

01:47:24   We have show notes there.

01:47:25   You can also find them on the website relay.fm slash connected slash 247.

01:47:32   While you're there, you can send us an email with feedback or follow up.

01:47:37   You can also do that of course on Twitter.

01:47:40   Myke is there as I Myke I M Y, K E. And Myke is the host of a lot of great shows here on

01:47:47   relay FM.

01:47:48   You can find Federico on Twitter as VI TI CCI and he is the editor in chief of Max stories

01:47:55   dot net and he appears on a bunch of podcasts both here on relay and over at

01:48:00   max stories you can find me on twitter as is mh and I write at 512 pixels dot

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