241: 123 Twitter Client Doesn't Work


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   - Hello and welcome to Connected, Episode 241.

00:00:12   It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:14   Hover, Squarespace, and Away.

00:00:17   I'm your host, Steven Hackett,

00:00:18   and I am joined by my co-host, Myke Curley.

00:00:21   - Oh, hi.

00:00:23   - Hey buddy, it's an odd episode.

00:00:25   You go first.

00:00:26   - There are always odd episodes when I'm around.

00:00:29   Hmm. And we are joined by Mr. Federico Vatici.

00:00:33   Oh, hey, welcome back. How are you?

00:00:36   It's good to be back. I genuinely missed recording with you all the last couple of weeks. I got

00:00:42   several notes from listeners. Thank you for making sure everything is okay. Just a hectic

00:00:46   family life couple weeks, but everything's cool. And we're back and we're going to talk

00:00:50   about topics.

00:00:53   I'm leaving, by the way. Did I not tell you? I'm out of here. Oh, yeah, I'm off.

00:00:57   You're done?

00:00:58   Figured like I've handed back over now to you. So I'm off now Wow. Well, we had a good run, you know

00:01:04   We've been recording this show and it's pretty sure doing it six years need me. You can keep doing it

00:01:09   It doesn't need you. It's the three of us together

00:01:12   well, or sometimes me John and Casey but

00:01:16   That might happen again in the summer this year, I think we need to talk about that

00:01:23   I've realized this weekend that a

00:01:28   a we are a month away from WDC, which is just extremely upsetting in every way.

00:01:33   Because then then it's summer and people travel,

00:01:37   I'm going to be gone for a week in July. It's like, it's going to be,

00:01:40   when you were a kid, summer was relaxing, right? You didn't have to go to school.

00:01:44   You can just play video games and ride your bike and eat snacks. But as adults,

00:01:48   summer I think is maybe more stressful than the other seasons because everyone is

00:01:52   off doing things and not doing their jobs.

00:01:55   Yeah, I'm currently making the prediction that in July there will only be one episode

00:02:00   where all three of us are on it at the same time. That is my prediction.

00:02:04   Do we score it?

00:02:06   No, we don't need to score it.

00:02:09   You want to score everything.

00:02:10   Because the thing is, there's no point having scores in this because I can win that. I can

00:02:17   just not show up, right? So like, you don't want to score it because then if there's like

00:02:22   points on the line, you just won't hear from me for four weeks. Points are important.

00:02:25   So it's a non-graded prediction. Just making sure.

00:02:30   Because I know when I'm away, I know when Steven's away, and like, I mean, who knows

00:02:35   when you're going to be away? You go away in July.

00:02:38   What do you mean you go away like I'm some kind of nomad?

00:02:43   Like you just live in a beach hut for like two months or something. And then something

00:02:49   that you started doing over the last couple of years, you go to the beach and then take

00:02:52   a vacation and go back to the beach and go home. It's like you take a vacation from your

00:02:56   vacation.

00:02:57   Look, sitting by the Italian seaside is very exhausting.

00:03:01   No, it's just you, once you have a beach house, it's great because you can be on vacation

00:03:07   at your house, but then you also want to go somewhere else, you know, go to a hotel, actually,

00:03:12   you know, treat yourself to a real vacation.

00:03:15   From the vacation?

00:03:16   is not a real vacation. It's your beach house. It's yours. You gotta care about it, you know?

00:03:22   Yeah. But now I can do podcasts from the iPad, so, you know, it's not like when I actually

00:03:30   disappeared years ago. You guys are complaining too much about my summer habits. It's not fair.

00:03:35   It's not a complaint anymore because I'm used to it.

00:03:38   We just accept that you don't love us in June, July.

00:03:41   Yeah, you'd love the beach more.

00:03:44   Well, yeah. You have a point.

00:03:45   Yes, yes. You're actually correct.

00:03:48   All right, I am back. And so I can reinstitute order into the chaos that was the last two

00:03:57   episodes connected. And we're going to start with follow up. Do we have to?

00:04:02   I mean, it is in the document. So we should do it.

00:04:07   Just as a favor to you.

00:04:10   And for the record, Myke put most of this in, not me.

00:04:13   Yeah, I was about to say, in the interest of clarity, this is basically all my follow-up.

00:04:17   iFixit removed their Galaxy Fold teardown. So I referenced this on the last episode of, like,

00:04:23   iFixit pulled apart a Samsung Galaxy Fold and were able to show a bunch of the areas where it failed.

00:04:30   And then a few days later, they were like, "LOL, we had to pull it down because Samsung asked."

00:04:37   And this is just one of those interesting things where I kind of want to get a feeling from YouTube

00:04:42   about a story like this because what's happened is, right, somebody gave that device to iFixit

00:04:49   and probably broke a contract or at least made a situation difficult between Samsung

00:04:56   and the whoever it was that gave iFixit the phone.

00:04:59   And then iFixit went along with the request and took it down.

00:05:03   And considering both of you are real journalists, I want to know what you think of something

00:05:08   like this.

00:05:09   It's kind of shady territory.

00:05:13   Normally, like if you...

00:05:15   See, this is difficult because if you have this kind of source, and the source gets in trouble,

00:05:22   and you want to make sure that this person keeps collaborating with you,

00:05:27   I could see why iFixit wanted to sort of make sure that they would cover,

00:05:34   they would protect the source and do whatever Samsung was requesting.

00:05:38   But also it's not a... I don't think it's a good... Maybe Steven can jump in here.

00:05:43   I don't think it's a good look, journalistically speaking, to have a report out and then just make it disappear as if it never happened.

00:05:54   But also I've been... Years ago I was in a situation where, you know, when you get hit with...

00:06:04   What's it called? The DCMA? The Copyright Millennium Act. And you get hit with that

00:06:10   kind of request and you get a letter from a lawyer, you know, actually multiple lawyers.

00:06:16   It's kind of scary. And you get out, you get out.

00:06:21   I'm sure you obviously can't talk about it, but like,

00:06:24   I prefer not to, but it was really years ago when I was stupid and young and reckless.

00:06:30   So you comply to that, right, when you get that kind of letter and when you're, for example,

00:06:35   when your hosting provider says, "Hey, by the way, we've been contacted by this company

00:06:39   says that you're posting copyrighted content on your server and unless you comply we're

00:06:44   going to shut it down." So I can see why even external, some kind of external pressure from

00:06:51   maybe a CDN company or your hosting provider would say, "Oh, by the way, Samsung got in

00:06:56   in touch with us about photos and details

00:06:58   that you have on your site.

00:06:59   So unless you take it down,

00:07:01   we're gonna actually take down your site.

00:07:03   So yeah, it's difficult, I don't know.

00:07:07   - Yeah, my sort of assumption is that

00:07:10   whatever reviewer get handed their phone off to iFixit,

00:07:14   and I would imagine that Samsung knew who that was

00:07:17   pretty quickly, like they do nice imagery

00:07:20   unless they obscure the serial number.

00:07:22   Samsung probably knows whose phone that was.

00:07:25   And my guess is that, you know,

00:07:28   iFixit took it down because A,

00:07:29   Samsung came knocking with their lawyers,

00:07:32   but they also wanted to somehow preserve

00:07:34   the relationship with the reviewer.

00:07:36   I don't know, my guess is whoever gave it to them

00:07:38   won't be getting any more Samsung review units.

00:07:40   Like, that feels like a showstopper

00:07:43   from the Samsung perspective.

00:07:44   'Cause when you get a review unit, there is,

00:07:47   well, very often, there's actual paperwork saying,

00:07:50   this is what you can and cannot do with it,

00:07:52   this is who you can and cannot show it to,

00:07:54   And I mean, clearly this has got to be a violation of that

00:07:59   agreement.

00:07:59   If this was a reviewer, which I expect it probably was,

00:08:02   because it doesn't seem like anybody else had access

00:08:05   to these.

00:08:06   I've seen people say, oh, what if it was a carrier?

00:08:08   But I don't think these have been sent to carriers.

00:08:10   I don't think you could buy the phone through.

00:08:13   Maybe-- OK, connected sometimes we have these theories.

00:08:16   And so maybe there was an engineer

00:08:20   at Samsung who knew that they were going to explode.

00:08:23   And he's like, "No, no, don't do it.

00:08:25   "They're gonna fall apart."

00:08:27   And out of blind rage,

00:08:31   he stole a unit from Samsung on the cover of the night

00:08:34   and gave it to iFixit to prove himself correct.

00:08:36   - Also not a wild,

00:08:38   I mean, you've peppered it up with some real espionage,

00:08:41   but that's also not a wild theory either, right,

00:08:43   that it came from inside the house.

00:08:45   - But also, I think when people say carriers,

00:08:48   they don't mean like the carrier store,

00:08:51   but I think they refer to the certification process

00:08:55   that goes on when people who work for a carrier

00:08:58   have to verify that this phone is gonna be on our network.

00:09:02   And so there's multiple engineers that test these new phones,

00:09:05   new and upcoming phones in their labs.

00:09:07   And so it may be somebody from a carrier

00:09:10   that has some kind of long-term loan for these units

00:09:14   and is maybe friends with iFixit,

00:09:17   which will actually explain why

00:09:19   and how I think it is often access to that makes sense because I was wondering right

00:09:25   like if this was a review unit what did the reviewer think was gonna happen like how would

00:09:32   you give this device back to Samsung back like you're like what did you do to it nothing

00:09:38   just like just randomly exploded yeah I mean like that is what they did but you just you

00:09:44   sit back like a ziploc bag full of galaxy fold parts like I dropped it down the stairs

00:09:49   I don't know what happened.

00:09:51   And then I dropped it down the stairs and then a knife landed on it and that's why that

00:09:55   cable's cut in such a specific way.

00:09:57   Every single component just fell apart like a Lego car.

00:10:01   The whole thing is strange.

00:10:03   But my feeling though, really, when I look at this is like, yeah, of course they took

00:10:07   it down.

00:10:09   Because they had to, right?

00:10:11   Like no matter what the situation was, it was either going to be a case that they were

00:10:15   going to get hit by a lawsuit or they have put somebody in hot water and they shouldn't

00:10:22   have done that. But like it was still strange and something I find even weirder like from

00:10:28   the iFixit Twitter account they tweeted "You might not be able to view our Galaxy Fold

00:10:31   teardown anymore but you can still watch us talk about it with Dieter Bohn on Repair Radio"

00:10:35   and it's like "Why are you owning this so much?" Like I don't get it! Like why are you

00:10:40   owning that?

00:10:41   It's really weird. It's really weird. And I mean, this is just like the perfect cherry

00:10:47   on top of the weirdness sundae that is the Galaxy Fold story. Like every single step

00:10:52   of this story has been so bizarre.

00:10:54   It's like a telenovela. It's unbelievable. This whole thing is so incredible to me. Like

00:10:59   at breakfast a couple of days ago, my wife Idina was like, I don't know how it came up,

00:11:04   but she was just like, "Oh, I saw about that phone. Are you still going to get it?" And

00:11:09   was like, as I said to Federico on the show last week, "yeah probably" because I can't

00:11:16   stop myself because like then MKBHD posted his review right? Yes. And like it's just

00:11:21   another example of the type of thing that I'm talking about where it's kind of like

00:11:24   everybody's being like "yeah I mean like it's really broken but like it's amazing

00:11:29   though" right and there's something about like the way that that he and others have

00:11:33   have spoken about it of like, this is the next big form factor. Like this has the opportunity,

00:11:39   this has the chance, right? Like that there is enough even in an early version to be like,

00:11:45   oh, this makes a lot of sense that it's probably, I mean, a lot of people are saying it's like,

00:11:49   oh, this is the next big form factor since the smartphone. I disagree with that. Like

00:11:53   my view on this is this is the biggest form factor change since the Galaxy Note, since

00:11:58   phones got big, right? Like that was a big change, right? So we had smartphones and they

00:12:02   were small, then they got big. And that changed a lot about how we use them, how we interact

00:12:07   with them, considerations that we need to make. Like it was a change. Because all this

00:12:10   is really is just two phones like stuck together. Like it's not a completely new device, but

00:12:15   like it feels like that is the biggest step since phones started getting large, since

00:12:20   the phablet became a thing.

00:12:22   Yeah, potentially. And I think in that MKBHD review, I've watched a lot of videos, so I

00:12:26   may be muddying the waters, but I think he talks a little bit about like, does this failure

00:12:31   of this phone does it like color this form factor forever? And I don't think it does.

00:12:36   I mean, if you look at early smartphones, a lot of them were just like really pretty bad. And the

00:12:41   iPhone was the first good one, but even the first iPhone really wasn't all that good. It is

00:12:46   thundering like crazy outside, by the way. So I apologize if it sounds like thunderstorms in your

00:12:50   podcast. That was serious. Yeah. As I, as I mentioned, the first iPhone wasn't very good.

00:12:55   Thunder rose behind me. So that's something to be concerned about.

00:12:59   - How dare you!

00:13:00   (laughing)

00:13:03   - I wonder.

00:13:03   So I think I agree with that.

00:13:06   I don't think that the failure of this Galaxy Fold

00:13:11   version one, I don't think it means this form factor is doomed

00:13:15   because I actually agree with you, Myke.

00:13:16   I don't know for sure if this is the next big thing.

00:13:18   It may or may not be,

00:13:20   but it sure seems like it has a chance

00:13:22   and I think that that is still true today

00:13:25   after all of the madness of the last week.

00:13:28   the current only current possibility, right?

00:13:31   Which was like why all these technology companies

00:13:34   started getting into VR and still are, right?

00:13:37   I can still put, because it's like, well,

00:13:38   this is a device that is the closest

00:13:41   to the future that we have.

00:13:42   So we'll just put a bunch of money into it

00:13:45   in the hopes that it will keep pushing forward.

00:13:48   And on that, there's this thing called the Oculus Quest,

00:13:51   which is coming out soon,

00:13:52   which is like it's completely untethered from a computer,

00:13:55   which is, that is very intriguing as a device.

00:13:58   And it runs full games.

00:14:00   It's not like the Google Cardboard or whatever,

00:14:02   like proper games.

00:14:04   - If you're Samsung, there is an added benefit

00:14:08   to this being the future because Samsung will supply

00:14:11   the screens for this thing, right?

00:14:13   - This is one of the reasons they need

00:14:14   to make this device work, because they need

00:14:16   to entice their partners, right?

00:14:18   Like that's what, there is so much writing on this for them,

00:14:21   which is why it's so very unfortunate

00:14:24   this one didn't even make it out of the door yet. I have faith in them though, I do, because

00:14:30   you know, they will be throwing everything they can at this to make this thing work.

00:14:37   I can't even imagine the amount of money they are losing, because they've made all these phones.

00:14:41   Now if they make a change that's big enough that they have to start again,

00:14:45   or they need to open them all and like do something to it, like that is so much money

00:14:51   that they are losing. But they got to do it. Yeah, it doesn't work now. So anyways, I feel

00:14:58   like that's enough about the Galaxy Fold. Rest in peace. Never enough. Never enough.

00:15:03   So do we think that we will see an updated Galaxy Fold or do we think Samsung sort of

00:15:11   buries this for a little while and then they name it something else and it looks different,

00:15:14   you know, six months from now? No, I think like Galaxy Fold's coming out. Like I think it's

00:15:19   it's happening within a few months time yeah it will happen. What I'm most

00:15:23   intrigued about right now though is what's gonna happen to Huawei's phone.

00:15:26   Ooh the Mate X. Yeah the Mate X yeah because the screen on the outside right

00:15:34   yeah yeah yeah seems bad idea. Seems like in hindsight now it seems like

00:15:40   potentially a risky proposition unless they're doing things significantly

00:15:44   different to Samsung. We spoke several weeks ago now about the power beats Pro, which are the

00:15:51   sort of workout design like clips over your ear wireless things from beats they're using the new

00:16:00   what's the new chip called the h1 chip? Yes, they have a hoy telephone they have seems like what's

00:16:08   what's gonna be pretty good battery life.

00:16:10   And these now have a ship date of May 10th,

00:16:13   they're 250 bucks.

00:16:15   So they are more than the AirPods,

00:16:17   but I think you get a very different experience

00:16:21   from the way these are designed

00:16:22   and the battery life increase and everything.

00:16:24   So it seems like people are like,

00:16:26   like just looking on Twitter and stuff,

00:16:27   people seem really excited about these headphones,

00:16:30   way more than I thought would be the case, honestly.

00:16:33   - I think that this is a much better product

00:16:37   if you have specific needs.

00:16:39   Oh yeah.

00:16:41   You know what I mean? Like this is

00:16:42   AirPods is so much more

00:16:44   general purpose.

00:16:47   And these power beats are like

00:16:49   if you love that technology but you

00:16:52   do heavy workouts, you can't

00:16:53   you might not be able to use AirPods

00:16:55   so you might not feel comfortable

00:16:56   using them right? Like you might

00:16:57   not feel they're protected enough

00:16:58   for you to like instead of knocking

00:17:00   them out.

00:17:01   And these you know they're water

00:17:04   resistant, sweat resistant.

00:17:05   I don't know how much AirPods are

00:17:07   that and they've got like the different ear tips and stuff like that so for people that

00:17:11   AirPods are not comfortable for. It is like AirPods Pro is like how I've been thinking

00:17:18   about it in my mind. It's like this is for a very specific type of user and so it's not

00:17:24   surprising to me that like the interest in them is not widespread but amongst the people

00:17:30   that care they really care because they really want it.

00:17:33   Yeah, Sylvia, she's been looking forward to the Powerbeats Pro.

00:17:39   She uses AirPods and she uses them a bunch.

00:17:42   Like when she's choreographing and she's testing a new choreography,

00:17:46   she puts AirPods on, but she doesn't love them because she says that they're not stable enough.

00:17:52   And I think it's because she's one of those people where the shape of the AirPods is not ideal for the shape of her ears.

00:18:01   And so she's been asking actually for the past couple of years, is Apple ever going

00:18:06   to make truly wireless the Powerbeats with the earhook design.

00:18:13   And we're going to get a pair of these as soon as they're available.

00:18:18   And also the fact that they have customizable ear tips, that's also a big win because,

00:18:23   you know, if the design of your ear, if the shape of your ear does not match the ideal

00:18:30   vision of Johnny I've designed earbuds well you're out of luck don't you

00:18:37   remember the ears the ears presentation yes remember that when when like they

00:18:42   went to ear pods right there were ear pods for a while just like lots of

00:18:45   people's pictures of ears that was yes I'll put a link in the show notes to

00:18:49   that video I absolutely love my new air pods I really do I've fallen in love

00:18:55   this product all over again. They're amazing. They're so good. So good. Like it's, it's the

00:19:02   battery life is so much better. I actually really enjoy Siri. It's very useful to me.

00:19:08   And I'm wearing them. I mean, part of it is because I'm wearing them a bunch more.

00:19:12   Because now Adina is at home more. We're both wanting to listen to things. So we both use our

00:19:18   AirPods. But still she still does it. Like they're just all over the house, just outside of the case.

00:19:24   I can't fathom how you could live that way.

00:19:29   This cannot go on for any longer, Myke.

00:19:31   You gotta find a solution to this problem.

00:19:33   I've told her, I've publicly shamed her about it, like in everything, but she just doesn't

00:19:37   care.

00:19:38   She just puts them wherever she wants.

00:19:39   It's maddening to me.

00:19:40   I just don't see the benefit.

00:19:42   Like I don't see how you could just take them out and just leave them on the kitchen counter.

00:19:46   Like I don't get it.

00:19:48   I don't understand how they work.

00:19:51   It's very concerning.

00:19:52   We have a lot more to talk about.

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00:22:13   And relay FM.

00:22:14   I wanted to provide an official update on things I've been up to and I think Myke knows

00:22:22   sort of what I've been working on. As usual I've been sending him little previews and

00:22:28   snippets.

00:22:29   Yes and no actually. You've been sending me some stuff, more graphical stuff, like images.

00:22:35   I have absolutely no idea what this article is that you're working on. I have no idea

00:22:39   what it is.

00:22:40   I feel really left out.

00:22:41   Well you've been busy excavating things in your backyards.

00:22:45   That's true.

00:22:46   No, everyone's been too scared to talk to you.

00:22:49   Didn't want to, you know, bother you.

00:22:53   So I've been working on this major story that I would like to have on the website before

00:23:01   WWDC.

00:23:02   It's like a very big, in-depth story.

00:23:08   So I kind of don't want to spoil the topic, but let's just say that it's about the iPad.

00:23:14   Weird.

00:23:15   And yeah, I know, but it's like, to give you some context, this has been like an iOS review

00:23:21   like effort.

00:23:23   So the type of depth and the type of like, I have a mind map and I have multiple chapters

00:23:29   and multiple sections and I'm working on really nice looking assets for the story.

00:23:36   So it's the whole deal, right?

00:23:37   There's going to be extras for club members. There's gonna be an e-book version and I love that stuff

00:23:43   So the the idea would be that this should come out before

00:23:49   WWDC

00:23:52   Just as a

00:23:53   Sort of as a final update before things change

00:23:57   So that would be my idea to kind of talk about the iPad from a very specific and personal angle before

00:24:03   The reason that I bring it up in the show is not just to build hype, because that's

00:24:10   what I do, but also, I mean, come on, you gotta...

00:24:15   You're a hype man.

00:24:17   Federico is the hype man.

00:24:18   There should be a poster for that.

00:24:20   No, but I kind of wanted to put out a call and I wanted to ask listeners if there's any

00:24:29   particular aspect of my iPad workflow.

00:24:33   So the ways that I work on the iPad.

00:24:36   If you have any particular question

00:24:39   that you would like to see,

00:24:41   and I know this sounds super generic and vague,

00:24:45   but bear with me.

00:24:46   If there's anything particular about the way

00:24:48   that I work on the iPad that you would like

00:24:50   to know more about, send me a question on Twitter,

00:24:53   send me an email, whatever.

00:24:54   I just wanna make sure that I can cover

00:24:57   all the possible grounds that I can with this story.

00:25:00   In the, of course, in the limits of the scope of the story,

00:25:04   which is a pretty large scope, I will admit,

00:25:06   but there's still going to be not too many chapters,

00:25:10   but it's pretty broad topic.

00:25:12   So-- - So I'm guessing

00:25:14   it's like a drawing the line in the sand,

00:25:18   this is where the iPad is before.

00:25:20   - Yeah, kinda, yeah, kinda, yeah.

00:25:23   But sort of from my perspective then,

00:25:26   So going back through all the changes that I've been through over the past few years

00:25:32   that I've been using the iPad and from that perspective of trying to evaluate how things

00:25:41   changed and how they're better now in some ways or they're maybe worse in other ways

00:25:46   and how they could get better at WWDC.

00:25:51   And so it's not just a summary of the ways that I work,

00:25:56   but also I bring forth some problems and some ideas

00:26:03   for how things could get better,

00:26:05   but it's not in the style of the wish lists

00:26:09   that I used to do.

00:26:10   So it's not in that style, but it's got some wishes

00:26:13   and it's something pretty unique.

00:26:14   It's somewhere in the middle of an iOS review

00:26:17   and more of a here's how I work type of story.

00:26:22   And it's been really fun putting this together

00:26:24   and it's actually been easier for me

00:26:27   to write about this stuff than it is to write an iOS review.

00:26:30   Even though the scope again is really similar,

00:26:33   not the scope but maybe the length

00:26:35   and the depth of the story is similar,

00:26:37   but it's been so much easier in terms of like,

00:26:39   you know, I have a chapter that is about 15,000 words

00:26:44   and that took me like three days to finish.

00:26:47   It's like that can never happen for an IUS review.

00:26:50   Is that because you don't have to research?

00:26:53   It's just coming from your mind.

00:26:55   It's just coming.

00:26:57   Well, I had to outline and to, you know, to sketch out a mind map.

00:27:01   Well, yeah, but I mean, like, you're not having to like do a bunch of work.

00:27:05   And like, here's a I have to understand how this works and watch this video

00:27:09   and read this documentation to make sure I got all the points correctly,

00:27:11   because it's just your opinions and your usage as opposed to like,

00:27:16   Let me tell you about how messages in the cloud is going to work or whatever.

00:27:22   No, really, that's exactly right.

00:27:24   And also, if anything, I think the biggest problem has not been research, but just memory.

00:27:30   Just remembering things that I actually wrote about years ago that I had completely forgotten about.

00:27:36   And so, more than once, I came across when adding links to a section that I'm editing,

00:27:44   and I'm googling around, searching for old articles about a specific iPad feature or

00:27:49   app, and I come across one of my stories. And I'm like, "Oh, well, I guess I've

00:27:54   read about this already years ago." So…

00:27:56   Yeah, I can imagine that that happens to Steven a lot.

00:28:00   You know, sometimes you just need to learn about the different versions of iSync, and

00:28:05   past Steven had you covered.

00:28:09   Yeah, so that's basically what I'm doing now, if I'm a bit less active on Twitter,

00:28:18   maybe for at least another week to ten days, because I think I'm about, like I'm approaching

00:28:25   writing the last chapter, so that's a good sign. So I would say I'm about 60 to 70%

00:28:34   done, maybe, which is good. But again, it's a much faster process than doing the iOS review,

00:28:40   even though, again, there will be all of the things that you're used to seeing when I do

00:28:44   one of these stories. So the extras and talking about it on the podcast and the ebook version

00:28:51   and tons of screenshots and all of that.

00:28:53   If you want to talk about it on the show, you're going to have to do your usual thing.

00:28:56   I'm going to need it very early so I can very slowly read through it as I want to do.

00:29:03   Yes, we will do that. You will get an advanced press copy.

00:29:08   Advanced screening. You gotta like put my name all over it in case it slips out.

00:29:11   Like a watermark. My curly.

00:29:14   It shows up on iFixit, you know who did it.

00:29:15   So yeah, that's basically what I've been doing for the past couple of months. Quietly behind

00:29:24   the scenes. And just writing for the past three weeks, almost a month. Yeah.

00:29:31   That's great. I'm excited to see this because you have put so much stuff out there, but I think it's

00:29:37   been a long time since you've done like an end-to-end really inclusive look at like where

00:29:43   things are in your sort of setup and workflow and if that's what this is then I'm definitely excited

00:29:48   to read it. Yeah, yeah that's what it is. Yeah I always learn something from stuff like that.

00:29:54   I hope you will. It means I've done something right. So yeah, getting there and it will be fun

00:30:02   to talk about in the context of some of the ways that I work on the iPad these days and sort of

00:30:09   some of the tools that I've even commissioned two people to build for me specifically. Like

00:30:18   you'll see it's gonna be fun to cover yeah it is the year 2019 that means we have to talk about

00:30:25   aperture apparently apparently so can you know what actually before we get into this can you give

00:30:32   us a little history lesson well there's a there's an article over at maxstories.net that i wrote

00:30:38   last year about the history of aperture you can go read this is one of those things like i google it

00:30:44   I did this! How useful! Yeah, way to go, past Steven. So if we wind the clock back to, I don't

00:30:50   know, 2005, you had like iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, and then Apple was making like pro versions of

00:30:59   all those. So you had iMovie, but then you also had something like Final Cut, which, you know,

00:31:04   so came along. So did the consumer version of these products all come before the pro versions?

00:31:10   I plead the fifth.

00:31:12   - Okay.

00:31:13   - I'm not.

00:31:13   - Did they ever make a pro version of iDVD?

00:31:15   That's basically what I'm asking.

00:31:15   - Yes, there was a tool.

00:31:18   Joe Steele, if he's around, will know.

00:31:20   - What does that mean, what you just said?

00:31:23   - Do you know what iDVD is?

00:31:24   - No, no, you plead, no, you plead something.

00:31:28   - Oh, plead the fifth.

00:31:30   It means that I'm not sure of the answer

00:31:31   and I don't want to incriminate myself.

00:31:33   - It's like an American legal system thing.

00:31:35   - It's an American thing.

00:31:36   - All right.

00:31:37   - There was, there was DVD studio pro, Myke.

00:31:40   Pro DbD authoring from Apple.

00:31:42   That's wild. I was just I was making a dumb joke, but I've never seen that application run

00:31:49   Okay, you know your garage band and logic even the Apple bot logic later on like there was this idea of you have consumer versions

00:31:57   and then you have pro versions of these like creative Mac apps and aperture was sort of the

00:32:04   the pro version of iPhoto. It came out in 2005 and then Apple like aperture's

00:32:09   history. Like you really should go read this article.

00:32:11   Apertures history is very rough.

00:32:14   Like there were rumors basically just all the time that it was canceled.

00:32:18   There was a story in 2006 that Apple had disbanded the entire team.

00:32:22   I remember that. I remember as reported by think secret.

00:32:27   This is the era that we're in.

00:32:31   Not and well. No. Was that the one that Apple sued into oblivion? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why did they do that?

00:32:38   They they there was a story about some I think

00:32:41   about unreleased hardware

00:32:44   Something and anyways, well, that's the hardware that they like that wasn't some real

00:32:49   Potentially potentially it wasn't real. It's that is up to debate. I should write about that

00:32:55   I'm putting that on my list. You should write about that. What happened to think secret? Mm-hmm

00:32:59   I'm gonna what are you can literally hear Stephen writing this idea down?

00:33:04   But aperture 2 did eventually show up and it got better over time and

00:33:16   then it

00:33:18   Aperture 3 was the final version and over time they sort of brought I photo and aperture together

00:33:24   So eventually they could use the same photo library so you could open your library

00:33:29   Either in iPhoto or Aperture it got things like faces and places, you know, features were used to today

00:33:34   Kind of made the way into Aperture over time, but then Aperture was sort of put out to pasture in

00:33:40   2014 was the final version that shipped version 3.6 and

00:33:47   It that when when the photos app showed up Apple sort of replaced iPhoto and Aperture

00:33:54   at once. Now lots of people weren't happy with that because photos even to this day doesn't do some of the really

00:33:59   like

00:34:01   Aperture had a lot of really good tools for managing large numbers of photos. Like if you were a professional photographer

00:34:06   You could shoot tethered into aperture or you could import hundreds of images and there were lots of good organizational tools

00:34:12   Like what we see in Lightroom now people basically move from Aperture to Lightroom if they needed that. The replacement of

00:34:18   Aperture with photos was not like Final Cut. Mm-hmm, right? Where Final Cut was like

00:34:24   alright it wasn't as great but then over time it became I mean I don't know if

00:34:30   it's exactly it right but like it seems like most I don't hear people complaining

00:34:34   about it as much anymore yeah it adopted all that pro stuff released a lot of it

00:34:38   photos just hasn't you can do real working photos that's what you're gonna

00:34:42   think that's what some people are saying it seems like Apple were happier to

00:34:47   abandon aperture than they were Final Cut or whatever right yeah it seems like

00:34:51   Well, you got to think that final cut was just much larger install base than aperture ever was. Yeah, because it was aperture actually good

00:34:59   So here's the thing

00:35:01   Okay, so let's do the nose first now

00:35:03   I'm gonna come back to that question because there's something I want to say about that

00:35:06   All right

00:35:07   The news is that Macrumor spotted a knowledge base article that says hey if you're still running aperture

00:35:14   for some reason it's not going to work after Mojave and

00:35:18   And the assumption is this is due to the 64-bit transition that Aputure won't run after Mojave.

00:35:25   So that's the news.

00:35:27   That's why we're talking about this.

00:35:28   It's not just that I am in some sort of fever dream about an old software program.

00:35:33   It's going to die.

00:35:34   And the response to this has been vastly more interesting than I anticipated.

00:35:40   When I read this article, I was like, "Huh, Aputure is still right on Mojave?"

00:35:46   I kind of assumed it died off years ago, but it was still hanging on somehow.

00:35:50   And, uh, uh, people online seems to at least some people still are, we're

00:35:56   using it and I think it's for those features that photos never got.

00:36:00   And maybe they didn't want to move to Lightroom or from what email I got.

00:36:04   Someone didn't want to move to Lightroom because they don't want the

00:36:06   subscription that comes with that.

00:36:07   Right.

00:36:07   Cause it's part of the Adobe creative cloud.

00:36:09   And I, I think that that's all really interesting a, that it was still around,

00:36:14   But people were like, oh yeah, like aperture was like the last great Mac app.

00:36:17   Apple wrote, it's like, you didn't use aperture versions one or two.

00:36:21   They were really bad.

00:36:22   Like aperture in the beginning was a dog and all, but the most powerful

00:36:27   desktop max, it eventually got to a point where you could run it on a laptop,

00:36:31   but that was not true.

00:36:32   In the beginning, the specs said it would run and I ran all three versions.

00:36:36   I used aperture for years, but it was so slow and so heavy, especially

00:36:41   like in the pre Intel days, it was just,

00:36:44   It really was a bit of a mess of an app for a long time.

00:36:48   And it was a great icon and a pretty good user interface for the time.

00:36:54   But I think that holding it up on this pedestal of like a great example of a

00:36:58   fallen Mac app, like, I just don't know if it deserves to be in that hall of fame.

00:37:02   You know, it was good at the end, but it took a long time to get there.

00:37:05   Is there a hall of fame for those apps?

00:37:08   Well, I mean, just, uh, I mean, there's one in my office.

00:37:11   It's like a marble shelf and to have carved out of granite

00:37:18   the icons of a couple of apps.

00:37:19   No, but seriously, what are some of the good old fallen Mac apps?

00:37:24   That's a good question.

00:37:27   DVD Studio Pro?

00:37:28   DVD Studio Pro, clearly, that we forgot existed.

00:37:32   I mean, I think you could put the pre-gutted version of Final Cut.

00:37:37   You could put iMovie HD in there.

00:37:40   I think really you could put like a sort of midway through its life version of

00:37:44   iPhoto in there. You know, iPhoto was incredible and then they got really

00:37:48   bloated and slow.

00:37:49   When it was like the scrolling was the thing.

00:37:52   God, it was so good.

00:37:54   Like we could just...

00:37:55   What's with the scrolling?

00:37:56   Well, that's where scrolls like butter comes from, right?

00:37:58   iPhoto, that's where that phrase comes from.

00:38:01   Like because you could scroll the library, right?

00:38:03   Like you could just like scroll through your library and it would run really

00:38:06   smoothly.

00:38:07   faster than like a finder window with all those photos in it.

00:38:10   It was it was really a very, very, very impressive thing.

00:38:13   And they did the way you would be able to like

00:38:16   run your mouse over the like the collection

00:38:19   and you would be able to like scan through all the images. Right.

00:38:21   They would like change the cover image in front of me.

00:38:24   I thought it was an incredible application.

00:38:26   It was.

00:38:27   The iPhoto was the result of like the first.

00:38:31   Do you remember the first scoop that me and you ever got?

00:38:33   Do you remember that?

00:38:34   I do.

00:38:35   There was, I'm going to see if I can find this.

00:38:37   So it was, they used to have like, you could geolocate, you could have like geolocation

00:38:42   for the, for your images, right?

00:38:45   And I noticed one day that the map looked weird.

00:38:49   Like it didn't look like Google Maps when I was looking at like my home or whatever.

00:38:55   And it turned out to be, what was it like open map or something?

00:38:59   Open street map.

00:39:00   Yep.

00:39:01   And because this was before open street map.

00:39:04   was before, actually not that long before, I think, Apple abandoned Google Maps. But

00:39:10   it was like well known at that point that there you go, it was well known at that point

00:39:15   that it was going to happen. I like, I really enjoy Steven's updates on this post, which

00:39:19   is just listing all of the cool places that it got shared. The Next Web, The Verge, Daring

00:39:25   Fireball, and then Open Street Map themselves. I got my fire though, in the mountain got

00:39:31   on my fire. You just get all the people who link to you at the bottom of the page.

00:39:36   Hey, you know what? 2012 is a different time in blogging.

00:39:41   But yeah, that was fun, right? That was one of the great things of iPhoto. And the reason

00:39:46   I noticed this is because I used to meticulously categorize my photos.

00:39:52   Yeah, same.

00:39:53   I actually was looking for some images the other day, and on an external hard drive I

00:39:58   I have a backup of my iPhoto library.

00:40:01   And it's like a bunch of images or whatever.

00:40:03   And I have all of the stuff that is important to me,

00:40:05   but it was something that I was looking for.

00:40:07   And I pulled out this drive and I ended up opening iPhoto on my iMac,

00:40:11   which was not a thing I thought I could do anymore.

00:40:13   Turns out you can still do that.

00:40:16   So this is why iPhoto is in my mind so much,

00:40:18   because I was just in iPhoto like three or four days ago,

00:40:21   which was a fun experience for me.

00:40:24   And I because it was I went to the faces and everybody's names

00:40:27   listed there. If you were in a picture of mine and I knew who you were, I created like a face

00:40:33   like for you right and named it and everything. But I don't do, I have like 12 people on my

00:40:38   photos that might, the current version of photos for all of that information. So like I don't,

00:40:44   I just don't really, I don't really go for the categorization anymore, but I used to,

00:40:48   used to be big on it. Ah photos.

00:40:51   Yeah, aperture. Totes dead.

00:40:54   Yeah. So can somebody tell me, because Apple is saying, oh, move it to photos, the app or Lightroom

00:41:00   Classic, what is Lightroom Classic? Does anybody know what that is? It is the version of Lightroom

00:41:06   that was the current version until maybe like a year ago. And it has a lot of those like big

00:41:11   library import type tools. Lightroom, I think they're calling it Lightroom CC or Lightroom

00:41:17   cloud. I don't have either installed. So forgive me if the name is not quite right. It is more

00:41:23   a more, I think, kind of more like Photos where it wants to sync all of your images

00:41:28   to a cloud service and I think it lacks some of the features that the old Lightroom did.

00:41:34   I think if you were really dependent on workflows in Aperture, the classic Lightroom is probably

00:41:40   a better fit.

00:41:41   Okay.

00:41:42   But just move it to Photos.

00:41:44   Photos is fine.

00:41:46   I want to know if literally any of our users is still using Aperture.

00:41:50   I just want to know.

00:41:51   Send a tweet to iMyke.

00:41:53   I M Y K. Yeah. Yeah. And I will follow up with a detailed list on next week's episode

00:41:58   if required.

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00:44:00   - All right, so should we talk about

00:44:03   Steven's app influenza status?

00:44:07   - You're an app director, maybe.

00:44:09   You could be one of those.

00:44:11   - Is that still a job?

00:44:12   Yeah, it's a thing again in 2019.

00:44:15   No, I'm kidding.

00:44:17   You should totally go with AppFluencer.

00:44:19   It's better.

00:44:20   What is happening in this segment?

00:44:22   OK.

00:44:22   So Myke, tell us what's going on with Overcast.

00:44:25   So there's been-- last week, I think, over the weekend,

00:44:29   Marco put out an update to Overcast,

00:44:31   which included the ability to share audio clips.

00:44:34   So you will now be able to, at any point in a show,

00:44:37   you can press the Share button, and you can create a clip

00:44:39   inside of Overcast, the podcast playing application,

00:44:42   which I'm assuming most of our listeners probably use or know about.

00:44:46   Actually, I know that most of our listeners use and know about.

00:44:50   I actually know this information.

00:44:52   So then it opens up a new UI in the application that lets you create an audio or video clip

00:44:56   that you can then share on social media stuff, which solves a problem of the shareability

00:45:04   and virality of podcasting in general, which is a thing that Steven was talking about in

00:45:09   a podcast interview that ended up influencing this feature to be made by Marco for this

00:45:14   current version of Overcast.

00:45:16   Podfluencing I think is the word you're looking for.

00:45:19   That was it, yeah that was definitely what I was looking for.

00:45:22   Yeah because it is such an interesting problem, with text you can just block quote something,

00:45:27   with video say it's on YouTube you can very easily make a URL that jumps right to that

00:45:33   time marker, but with audio, because it's with podcasting in particular, it's so distributed,

00:45:39   which is the way that open podcasting should be. This is a good thing for for the community

00:45:45   of podcasts. But the downside is there's not a great way to share something overcast had

00:45:49   time because links but you can do that. But then if you don't listen to podcasts in overcast,

00:45:56   you can't do anything with it right. Like you're saying that with YouTube, you can do

00:45:59   this, but you only can watch YouTube videos on YouTube.

00:46:02   You don't have a choice, right?

00:46:04   So like if you are a cash flow user and someone shares an overcast link,

00:46:08   it's like, great, I can listen to these 20 seconds of this show

00:46:10   randomly in the middle, but I can't do anything else of it that is easy.

00:46:15   Yeah.

00:46:16   And we even to pull the curtain back a little bit, like the web player

00:46:20   on the relay site actually has a feature where we could send out a link

00:46:24   with a timestamp, but even then people want to listen in their

00:46:29   podcasts client or ideally just wherever they are already. So if you're on Twitter and someone

00:46:35   shares something or you're in Instagram stories or you're on MySpace, wherever you are,

00:46:39   you just want to see it there. And that's what Marco's feature seems to solve.

00:46:44   Yeah, because then it's also more fun, I think, to have a little video clip to share than it is

00:46:49   like, "Yes, this URL," right? Like it's just not as fun. Like it's a different kind of thing.

00:46:57   I'll tell you as well, the official Twitter app is the best place to watch these clips

00:47:02   because you can open up the video and you can minimize the video and just keep scrolling

00:47:06   and you can drag the video around like its own picture in picture.

00:47:10   Speaking of which, just a quick aside, I've been using the Twitter app for like two months,

00:47:17   three months at this point. Totally fine.

00:47:19   Well you're using a beta version, right? You're not using the official one?

00:47:23   Not anymore. Not anymore. I have the normal version now.

00:47:26   Can you say you're using it? What does that mean?

00:47:30   I don't have Tweetbot or Twitterific or any other third-party client on my devices anymore.

00:47:34   Okay. Whoa. Okay. So I'm intrigued about this because we're going back to this again, but

00:47:37   from a very different place to the last time we had this conversation.

00:47:41   Yeah.

00:47:42   How do you deal with stuff like timeline syncing? Or do you just not care anymore?

00:47:45   I don't anymore. I just gave up.

00:47:48   What does that mean for you, though? Like, are you just not bothering to look at as much

00:47:52   stuff?

00:47:53   things. Actually three things. So there's three options. Either I open Twitter again

00:48:03   and it's kept in memory the last place where I was in my timeline, and the iOS app has

00:48:10   actually gotten better at restoring your previous spot in the timeline. So if it works, then

00:48:16   great. Option two. There's too many tweets or the app has not kept my place in the timeline.

00:48:28   So because there's a chronological option now, which I think was the impetus that sort

00:48:33   of pushed me to try the Twitter app again and eventually stick into it. So if the timeline

00:48:40   restoration didn't work, I just scroll to the top and read my timeline backwards.

00:48:45   So I start from the latest tweets.

00:48:48   That's like super old school.

00:48:50   Like I remember doing that back in the day with like Twitterific and Tweetie or

00:48:54   whatever, when they wouldn't save where you were and you just keep going back

00:48:57   until you recognize something.

00:48:59   Yeah. And that, like for years I thought, oh, I will never be able to do that

00:49:04   again. But then I realized, you know, if I don't want to spend as much time on

00:49:09   Twitter as I used to, scrolling all the way to the top and then going backwards

00:49:12   is a pretty good method of you can see the latest stuff so you can see the

00:49:17   latest things that people are talking about and if you want you can also reply

00:49:23   to people but I think it's better if you're replying to a tweet that was sent

00:49:27   one hour ago instead of 19 hours. I guess one of the things that's better now than

00:49:32   it used to be is like if somebody's having a conversation or whatever you

00:49:37   You don't see it in reverse because Twitter brings it all up together, right?

00:49:40   Yes, and that's actually great because it's a great way to see conversations that started

00:49:45   like many, many hours ago, but now you can see the fresh context, like the latest replies

00:49:51   to a conversation, which works really well for me.

00:49:54   So this change of behavior, scrolling backwards from top to bottom, I thought I would never

00:50:00   be able to do that myself, but it's actually been working fine.

00:50:04   The third option, which is the more nuclear one, that I also thought, well, I will never

00:50:10   do this because I'm not that kind of person, but it turns out that I am, is I switch from

00:50:17   latest to home.

00:50:19   So instead of chronological timeline to the algorithmic timeline.

00:50:23   I maintain that Twitter's algorithm is good enough that they are always right.

00:50:29   I always want to see what they put at the top.

00:50:31   Exactly.

00:50:32   If I'm super behind on Twitter, like for example this past week where I've been writing for

00:50:38   like seven hours a day and I just, I don't open Twitter because I gotta be concentrated

00:50:43   on writing, I open Twitter, switch from latest to home, and sure enough I've seen interesting

00:50:51   things that belong to my kind of sphere of interests.

00:50:57   Like you know...

00:50:58   I do wish that that toggle was an actual toggle though.

00:51:00   Yeah, it's kind of clunky to switch.

00:51:02   Because it just changes. Just like randomly, on its own, it decided it wanted to change

00:51:08   me to be home now rather than... you know what I mean?

00:51:12   Mine now is sticking to latest because I think it learns from your habits after a while.

00:51:17   Now mine is always latest by default. But yeah, the home timeline, the algorithmic one...

00:51:25   I sense a challenge here. I think I'm going to give it a go.

00:51:29   And also, like, I wrote about this years ago, and I think it's still true. Once you get...

00:51:36   So if the Twitter app works for you, if you get used to the features of the official client,

00:51:42   it's gonna be real hard to go back to third-party clients. And I love third-party clients, right?

00:51:47   But the conversation view, the notifications for all kinds of things you want to see, the

00:51:53   complete search that allows you to search for tweets that go back like years ago.

00:51:58   And stuff like polls. Polls and the excellent image support, GIFs and videos, you know,

00:52:06   all this kind of stuff that is native to Twitter. I gave up on trying to use the third-party

00:52:14   clients months ago and the chronological timeline makes it work for me. Sure, the iPad app is

00:52:21   not great, but also, you know, I want to spend less time, especially on the iPad.

00:52:27   A lot of the things that made third-party apps good, they lost their advantage when

00:52:32   the API stuff changed. Like, the multi-column views and stuff are just less useful when

00:52:38   the notification streaming API went away. Right, like we spoke about that at the time.

00:52:43   I used Tweetbot in one column view on the iPad.

00:52:46   And so using the timeline this way and my method that I actually wrote about on MacStories

00:52:55   to see a unified view for mentions and quote tweets and people who use my name in a single

00:53:05   like a saved search.

00:53:07   I wrote about it on MacStories a couple of months ago.

00:53:10   That works totally fine.

00:53:11   so I can have a unified mentions view like in Tweetbot, which is great.

00:53:17   So yeah, this was just an aside to say that yes, I agree with you, the overcast video

00:53:23   clips are perfect for Twitter.

00:53:25   I am gonna take the Federico challenge that you didn't give me.

00:53:33   And I've moved Twitter to my dock on my iPhone and I'll do the same on my iPad and I'll try

00:53:39   it over the next week and we'll report back on next week's episode. Stephen are you willing

00:53:43   to take this challenge? He's not on Twitter, why would he take it? He's sometimes on it.

00:53:48   Would I take your silence as a no on that one? Raid your silence. I'll do it. I'm not

00:53:52   on Twitter much but I'll do it. Yeah but like you could try it for a day and bail but like

00:53:57   then you can at least say why it didn't work for you. But then you would win and you get

00:54:00   smug when you win so. There's no winning! There's no winning state about this. Can we

00:54:05   - Can we bet on it?

00:54:06   - Why?

00:54:07   - What are we betting?

00:54:08   What is everything?

00:54:09   (laughing)

00:54:10   What is the bet?

00:54:11   What's the bet?

00:54:11   - Who wants to score everything we do?

00:54:13   - I know.

00:54:14   - Okay, back to overcast.

00:54:16   There is a little bit of a issue.

00:54:19   So you go in, you create your clip,

00:54:22   you have a lot of options.

00:54:23   You want vertical video, horizontal, square,

00:54:25   so you can think about where you're gonna share it.

00:54:27   You can kinda make some adjustments on some badging on it.

00:54:32   But then if you say that you wanna share the video

00:54:34   and the link, that's kind of a two-step process

00:54:37   because of some limitations in the share sheet.

00:54:42   But Federico, you think there may be a workaround

00:54:45   or is there a better way to do this?

00:54:47   - It's not Marco's fault.

00:54:48   So to give you the conclusion upfront,

00:54:53   Marco wanted to share multiple items.

00:54:58   They're called activity items because on iOS,

00:55:02   The share sheet is governed by the UI activity API.

00:55:06   So Marco wanted to share multiple activity items

00:55:08   at the same time.

00:55:10   So both a link and a video file, which in theory

00:55:14   is possible on iOS.

00:55:16   But what he discovered is that so many third party apps

00:55:21   don't do a good job at accepting multiple items shared

00:55:26   behind the scenes from one app to another via the share sheet.

00:55:31   So I did some research because I remembered writing about this.

00:55:36   And in fact, in my iOS 9 review, I

00:55:39   noted that Apple made some improvements around how

00:55:45   third-party apps can show up in the share sheet

00:55:48   if they support at least one of the items

00:55:52   that one app is passing as activity items.

00:55:55   So before iOS 9, let's say that Myke is a developer,

00:56:00   and he create, let's say, what can you be a developer of this time?

00:56:04   One, two, three Twitter Client.

00:56:06   Myke is the developer of one, two, three...

00:56:08   No, Twitter Client doesn't work.

00:56:10   Myke is the developer of one, two, three Graphic Editor.

00:56:14   And it's an app that lets you share images

00:56:18   both as PDF versions and JPEGs.

00:56:23   And so he implements the share sheet,

00:56:26   and he shares both files with the share sheet.

00:56:29   Before iOS 9, the extensions that you would see appear in the sharesheet were only for

00:56:36   those apps that explicitly said to the system "we support both PDF and JPEG".

00:56:45   But if you only supported one of the two, so either a PDF or a JPEG, you would not show

00:56:51   up in the sharesheet at all, which was terrible in iOS 8.

00:56:55   In iOS 9 Apple made this change saying, "Okay, even if you support just one of the multiple

00:57:01   formats that are passed as activity items, you will appear in the sharesheet, and by

00:57:06   default you will accept just the item that you support."

00:57:10   Which is great because it allows a consistent experience of you see always the same apps

00:57:15   in the sharesheet and all of that.

00:57:16   The problem is that, again, as Marco noticed, so many developers don't do the work of saying,

00:57:23   we can read multiple data items at the same time

00:57:28   and accept those at the same time and share them.

00:57:32   So you find yourself in the situation of Overcast

00:57:35   is sharing both a link and a video.

00:57:37   But then the extension that you pick,

00:57:41   whether it's a Twitter client or an email client, whatever,

00:57:45   only shows you the video, or maybe only shows you the link.

00:57:48   - Which is arguably a worse experience

00:57:50   because it is unknown, right?

00:57:52   That's the problem.

00:57:53   Yeah, it's unknown and less obvious.

00:57:55   And so what Marco did, I think, is the right call

00:57:59   until Apple provides some kind of better system, maybe.

00:58:04   By default, I'm just going to share the video, because that's

00:58:06   the most important part.

00:58:07   It's the video clip.

00:58:09   And then I'm going to put a button in the toolbar

00:58:12   to copy the link to the episode.

00:58:13   So the perfect workflow at this moment

00:58:16   would be you copy the link to the clipboard,

00:58:19   and then you share the video.

00:58:20   You use whatever app or whatever extension you want

00:58:24   to insert the video clip,

00:58:26   and then you manually paste the link

00:58:28   that you've copied to the clipboard.

00:58:30   Which is, I think, is, again, that's the right call.

00:58:34   Ideally, there should be some changes

00:58:37   around how the share sheet

00:58:38   and the activity API stuff works.

00:58:41   I kinda wish that Marco shipped the option

00:58:48   maybe as an advanced feature,

00:58:50   Because I would have had fun scripting that with shortcuts.

00:58:54   That would have been something to deal with the video

00:58:57   and the link at the same time.

00:58:59   Would have been fun.

00:59:00   So maybe there could be like a secret gesture

00:59:03   or a secret keyboard shortcut like the Konami code

00:59:07   that lets you share both video and link at the same time.

00:59:10   - That is a convoluted way to share something.

00:59:13   Right, up, down, up, down.

00:59:15   - To be fair though, how many people use Overcast on an iPad

00:59:18   with a smart keyboard attached.

00:59:20   That could be a Konami code that nobody knows about, just me.

00:59:23   And I could be, I would be able to share with shortcuts.

00:59:26   - No, let's go to the Tichi code.

00:59:28   - The Tichi code.

00:59:29   - What is the Tichi keyboard shortcut?

00:59:31   - It's the, all right, the Tichi code would be

00:59:35   the hex color code of the Italian flag.

00:59:38   - That feels like a lot of characters.

00:59:40   - That's a, pretty long.

00:59:43   - Well, you gotta commit to the secret code,

00:59:46   if you wanna have a secret code.

00:59:48   What is that? What is it? Can someone believe that? I want to know what it is now.

00:59:53   I have no idea, honestly.

00:59:55   Please tweet at us.

00:59:57   Yeah, I want the whole thing.

00:59:59   Myke will see it in the official app in two days.

01:00:01   Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Something like that.

01:00:04   Cool. Yeah, I think it's an awesome feature. It's so good.

01:00:07   Having spoken about this on upgrade as well, like, it's been fun over the last few days

01:00:13   because it's been encouraging people to send clips to me and Jason, which is amazing,

01:00:17   of the things they liked about the episode. And it is wild to me that like 90% of the clips that

01:00:22   we've seen have been about the same thing, which is just this one little joke that we made about

01:00:27   lasers. And that is not what I would have expected people would have clipped, even as what we and me

01:00:32   and Jason thought was the funniest moment of the episode. But so it's considering like, I think a

01:00:37   lot of the time I feel like I work in a vacuum. Like, I make things and I release them. But you

01:00:43   You don't really know particularly what people enjoy.

01:00:46   You hear about... people say they liked the episode quite a lot or they will say they

01:00:52   want to talk about a specific thing, good or bad.

01:00:56   It is super nice to be able to see what people are clipping and sharing about a specific

01:01:02   thing.

01:01:03   And this isn't just my own shows.

01:01:04   I have been really enjoying looking at people who I follow online share clips from their

01:01:09   favorite podcasts, you know, like I've seen a lot of hypercritical clips and

01:01:12   You Look Nice Today clips and Dubai Friday clips and stuff like that. And I

01:01:16   think it's really fun because I listen to all those shows so I press it and I'm like

01:01:19   "Oh I remember that moment, that was brilliant." So I encourage, there's also been some

01:01:24   weird fish clips of course, not like the PHISH, our Federico's weird fish.

01:01:29   Oh no, fish are weird, the band Fish, but they were talking about...

01:01:33   Yeah, but that's, that was just wasn't what I was, you know, we were talking about Marco and I

01:01:37   figured it might confuse people. But so I, you know, I'm sure we all do

01:01:40   encourage you to, if you ever find something you enjoy about our show,

01:01:44   share that clip. And if you want to please tag us in it because I like

01:01:49   listening to it. Um, I think it helps. I think it helps. We have a courtesy of

01:01:55   underscore in the chat room. We have the full code. Would you like me to read

01:01:59   the code?

01:01:59   Yes.

01:02:00   Yes.

01:02:01   #118336 #FFFFFFF #C0162A

01:02:09   That is the full Federico code.

01:02:12   I feel like he should be an Italian as well.

01:02:13   Hang on a second. Real-time follow-up, real-time follow-up.

01:02:17   So what Underscore got is I'm sure is just like the hex codes of green and white and red.

01:02:24   But there's an official one.

01:02:26   Kate has found via Wikipedia an official specified by law hex code for the Italian flag, which is

01:02:35   completely different, which is #008C45, #F4, F5, F0, #CD212A. That is the official,

01:02:46   as specified by law, hexadecimal code for the trickle law.

01:02:51   So it's not quite pure white. You got a little, little fanciness in there.

01:02:56   >> You put a little on it, you know, put a bit of mustard on that thing.

01:03:00   >> Wow. Well, glad we got that sorted out on this.

01:03:05   >> The more you know, we have laws that govern colors of flags.

01:03:11   >> It's like branding guidelines. It's not a surprise. We have like hexadecimal codes

01:03:16   for all of the real AFM stuff. I'm sure you do too, Federico. It's kind of like a flag.

01:03:20   >> Yeah, well, Sylvia does. I have no idea what type of red.

01:03:24   There is one, right? There is a hexadecimal code for the box store as well.

01:03:26   There is one somewhere, yes.

01:03:28   Yes.

01:03:29   Are we done with this part now? I feel like we've covered the flag colors pretty well.

01:03:33   Yeah, that was the most important part.

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01:06:10   I'm sorry to do this to you guys, but I feel like we have very important real

01:06:16   time follow up on the matter of flags.

01:06:18   Um, yeah, it's popping off in the chat room.

01:06:21   They go wild in there about this.

01:06:23   We should mention it.

01:06:24   Uh, so underscore David Smith went on the, uh, he says seemingly

01:06:29   official government website.

01:06:31   And he has a point.

01:06:32   It's not even HTTPS.

01:06:33   I mean, come on.

01:06:34   How expensive is an SSL certificate for the Italian government after all the taxes we

01:06:39   pay? But anyway.

01:06:40   Oh, there you go. Popping off now.

01:06:43   Step back.

01:06:45   So the government website uses a slight variation of the previous color. So this one will be

01:06:52   009246FFFFF CE2B37. You know, very popular color scheme. But Kate noticed how on Wikipedia,

01:07:04   In fact, they mention how the color that she discovered only applies to flags produced

01:07:11   on polyester fabric bunting?

01:07:13   Yeah, bunting is like flags.

01:07:17   Like little flags.

01:07:18   Why polyester though?

01:07:20   What if I wanted to make a cotton Italian flag?

01:07:23   Or a silk Italian flag?

01:07:25   You would get arrested in Italy.

01:07:27   You cannot have a cotton flag.

01:07:32   It's against the law.

01:07:33   You learn something new every day.

01:07:38   I declined the cookies on your government website.

01:07:41   I'm such a rebel.

01:07:42   Yeah, you shouldn't trust those.

01:07:44   I declined them.

01:07:46   I have a lot of questions about this website, but we don't have time for them.

01:07:50   Yeah, I have a lot of questions about the government, but we don't have time for that.

01:07:54   Anyway.

01:07:55   I do like, I don't know what this says, so hopefully this isn't something bad, but like

01:08:01   Halfway down the page on the right hand side, there's a graph and it's like an

01:08:05   arrow shooting out the top of the colors of the Italian flag.

01:08:09   It's very exciting.

01:08:10   It's a very exciting graphic.

01:08:12   What does that say?

01:08:13   Federico?

01:08:13   Do you see it?

01:08:14   Contrati these fill up.

01:08:17   Oh yeah.

01:08:18   That arrow is bull.

01:08:19   So we had a pretty good show this week.

01:08:31   What is the error signifying? Is it my growth and economy?

01:08:37   Yes, but again, I would rather not talk about any of this.

01:08:42   Okay, okay. Let's talk about something more exciting than government websites.

01:08:46   RSS apps for the Mac.

01:08:48   Oh, no, no, no. Why for the Mac? Why just Mac and iOS?

01:08:53   Mac and iOS.

01:08:54   Well, you can't do real RSS on an iPad.

01:08:58   I mean, the app that we're going to talk about, I haven't tested it on a Mac at all.

01:09:02   So if you if it translates to development contracts.

01:09:06   Oh, my God.

01:09:07   This sounds very it sounds very like like Sopranos like it's

01:09:13   I'm done now. I'm done.

01:09:18   Reader four, reader four.

01:09:20   So here's some context.

01:09:23   A bunch of people have been asking me and in my absence on Twitter, John Voorhis,

01:09:30   why we didn't have a review of Reader 4 on Mac Stories.

01:09:35   Reader 4 is a new version of the popular Reader with 2e by Swiss developer Silvio Rizzi.

01:09:43   He launched a new version last week, I think, both on the Mac and iOS.

01:09:48   The Mac version has been in public beta for a few months.

01:09:50   the iOS version. I received the beta a few days before the public launch on the

01:09:55   App Store, but we had no details about the public launch and because of the way

01:10:01   that we operate with our reviews we do not like to rehash change logs and let

01:10:07   them pass as quote-unquote "reviews". We actually want to use apps before we write

01:10:12   about them, but we had, you know, we had no idea we should be writing about the

01:10:15   app, so that's why we don't have a review. But I still decided to buy the app from

01:10:20   the App Store and using myself and see what it would be like. And there's a

01:10:25   there's a few really interesting things that I wanted to to talk about it. So I

01:10:31   assume we're all familiar with Reader, either from the Mac or from the from iOS,

01:10:37   right? Yeah it's been around forever. Yeah, all right. So this new version, one of the

01:10:43   reasons that it took a long time to the point where a bunch of people were

01:10:47   wondering whether the developer was still around and working on the app or not, is that he's been busy

01:10:52   rewriting the foundation of the app to have a common code base between the Mac and the iOS version.

01:11:00   But this is happening before

01:11:03   Marzipan. - It's a curious decision.

01:11:06   Exactly. So I'm wondering

01:11:09   will this be a bunch of wasted work

01:11:12   next month, essentially? So

01:11:16   If the goal was to have a shared code base like at a very high level

01:11:20   Would have been preferable to wait for Apple's solution and see what it would be like unless unless there is just some I mean

01:11:29   I don't know who knows how apps work. Nobody knows

01:11:31   Nobody knows nobody knows

01:11:34   Underscore knows but there's only two people. It's just the two of them. They're the only people that know maybe there's like a bunch of stuff that

01:11:41   He would have had to have done right like there's just like a bunch of things that the app is doing

01:11:46   Yeah, but even then yeah, I don't know. I can't get my head around this one so much, but my question is

01:11:52   So we have no idea if maybe there was like he only wanted to share some elements of his code

01:11:59   And just it's not strictly about the UI

01:12:01   I don't because I think about something like pcalc right which from talking to James

01:12:06   I know that there's a lot of shared code between those two versions and pcalc's been around forever like the Mac and iOS version

01:12:14   Right, but like I don't know how much of it here. I don't know who knows how this stuff works

01:12:18   We've already been over that nobody does but my question is

01:12:21   when

01:12:23   Such as in this case the stated intention is to share the same code base

01:12:31   across multiple platforms. I haven't seen much criticism of its decision to have essentially,

01:12:38   you know, it looks like the same app experience on the iPad and the Mac from what I've seen.

01:12:42   But when a developer says they're excited about Marzipan, for some people that's just like

01:12:50   blasphemy, like saying something that is extremely bad. Is it just because it's an Apple technology,

01:12:58   or is it because it's an extreme of that idea?

01:13:01   Because developers are already doing this.

01:13:03   They are already sharing code bases between apps.

01:13:06   - Well, I think a lot of it is judging books by their covers.

01:13:11   The reader for Mac doesn't look like an iOS app.

01:13:14   Like, I'm looking at the page, right?

01:13:17   The design, it still looks pretty Mac-like.

01:13:20   It's very simple.

01:13:21   It's like the more kind of standard Mac design of today, right?

01:13:25   like the post iOS 7 of vacation of all applications, right? Like that flat look,

01:13:30   but they do not look like the same application. And I'm running it and it feels, and this is a

01:13:37   topic I want to get to, it feels very much like Reader 3. It doesn't feel like a lot has changed.

01:13:44   And so maybe this code they're referring to is sort of like low level dealing with syncing,

01:13:49   dealing with feed fetching, or, you know, that sort of stuff. And the UI code and sort of the

01:13:54   the look and feel is all kind of the same as it was.

01:13:57   Well, I think it's interesting how there's developers who are already, you know, sort

01:14:04   of having this idea of let's just make one experience across platforms.

01:14:10   It makes total sense.

01:14:11   I mean, I think that's why Marzipan is coming now, because that's got to be the general

01:14:17   consensus amongst a lot of companies of like, why do I still put all of this work into all

01:14:25   of these separate versions of my applications?

01:14:27   Why stuff like Electron exists, right?

01:14:29   Because it's like, how much effort can we put into supporting every platform?

01:14:36   And you know, Electron apps run on platforms where like, you know, like the Mac and Windows

01:14:41   where it's like, it would be really beneficial for us because nobody's like mega excited,

01:14:45   or like the general population is not mega excited about the application development

01:14:50   on these platforms, right?

01:14:51   Like it's smartphones now, right?

01:14:53   And tablets that people seem to be excited about.

01:14:56   So we'll just, we can do this.

01:14:58   So let's just do this.

01:15:00   And that's how stuff like electronics apps continue to proliferate, right?

01:15:03   Because it's consolidating the amount of development that you have to do where you can.

01:15:08   And so I figured like you see something like this and it's like, yeah, I would like to unify the work.

01:15:13   the work so there's stuff that I don't have to continue duplicating and redoing over and

01:15:18   over again.

01:15:19   I can imagine it's got to get pretty tiring to every time you want to build a feature

01:15:24   on one platform you have to find a different way to build it on the other platform.

01:15:29   Which is why I think ultimately that Marzipan will be a good thing for these reasons.

01:15:33   In theory as long as everything can be implemented in a tasteful way that works well it should

01:15:39   make stuff easier for people, like to be able to offer multiple versions of

01:15:43   applications on multiple platforms. I have an anecdote for you. So until a few

01:15:49   years ago, by the end of the year, I used to do on Mac stories both the must-have

01:15:55   iPad apps and the must-have iPhone apps as two separate stories. But then what

01:16:01   happened, and this happened for like two years, maybe three years, is that I would

01:16:06   write one of the articles first. But because so many of the, let's say, the iPad apps were

01:16:13   also my must-haves on the iPhone, I found myself in this situation of having to rewrite

01:16:20   the same section for the same app, but in a different way, because I already talked

01:16:25   about it in the previous article. And so eventually I decided to just make one article, one story,

01:16:32   about must-have iOS apps.

01:16:34   - Especially as iPad app development slowed down as well.

01:16:37   - Yeah, exactly. - Right over time.

01:16:39   - So I just decided to do a single story

01:16:42   where I could talk about all of the apps

01:16:44   and do even more of them with a single effort.

01:16:49   And so in a way, that's kinda like, I'm not a developer,

01:16:52   but I can relate to the idea of why would you wanna

01:16:54   do the same work twice in a slightly different way?

01:16:57   So anyway, reader forward, there's a bunch of cool things

01:17:02   that I want to mention and maybe suggest a few improvements.

01:17:05   So the app is just as fluid and like,

01:17:10   it's a pleasure to use

01:17:12   and this has always been true for reader.

01:17:13   The way that the animations and the gestures work,

01:17:17   it's very well done.

01:17:19   What I appreciate in this version,

01:17:21   so it's kind of hard for me to tell exactly what's new.

01:17:24   So this couple of things I actually noticed.

01:17:26   There's better keyboard navigation on the iPad.

01:17:29   So there's more keyboard shortcuts

01:17:31   to navigate your unread items and open the browser

01:17:35   and share items, mark them as read from the keyboard.

01:17:40   So that's really well done.

01:17:41   I wish that there was more keyboard control going on.

01:17:46   I don't think the current keyboard shortcuts are not enough.

01:17:49   You cannot control the entire app.

01:17:51   So for example, you cannot use the arrow keys

01:17:54   to switch between folders in the sidebar.

01:17:57   Whereas I think there should be,

01:17:58   like if you wanna do keyboard shortcuts, great,

01:18:00   But you should also consider doing full-on keyboard

01:18:04   navigation.

01:18:05   And every screen and every element

01:18:08   should be selectable and associated

01:18:10   with a keyboard shortcut.

01:18:11   These days, an iPad.

01:18:13   So that could be improved.

01:18:15   I really like the fact that there's now

01:18:18   a full layout on the iPad matching what

01:18:22   is possible on the Mac.

01:18:23   So you can show three columns at once.

01:18:26   You can have your sidebar, your article list,

01:18:29   and the article view, all up on screen at the same time,

01:18:33   which is great on the iPad Pro.

01:18:34   So you can have three columns on the big iPad Pro,

01:18:38   move between articles with the keyboard,

01:18:39   it works really well.

01:18:40   So, and again, I wish that more developers

01:18:45   actually did this on the iPad,

01:18:47   you know, use a three column layout.

01:18:50   And I was actually in touch with a developer recently

01:18:53   of one of the apps that I use a lot.

01:18:55   I don't wanna call it out in case he doesn't want to.

01:18:58   but I asked for this kind of column layout.

01:19:01   And he mentioned how he was using the default

01:19:06   split view control that Apple provides as an API

01:19:09   for developers to have on the iPad,

01:19:11   a sidebar and a content view on the right.

01:19:14   And he mentioned how he would like to do

01:19:16   a more custom Mac-like layout on iPad,

01:19:19   like multiple columns, multiple content areas,

01:19:24   But that will require a custom implementation right now.

01:19:28   And he mentioned something really interesting

01:19:31   that maybe Marzipan, because of the way that--

01:19:36   the idea of bringing iPad apps to the Mac.

01:19:38   And on the Mac, it is very common

01:19:39   to have at least three columns.

01:19:42   You have a sidebar, you have an item list,

01:19:44   and you have an item view.

01:19:45   That is very common for a Mac app.

01:19:47   Maybe that will push Apple to say,

01:19:50   we should also offer this type of layout

01:19:52   as an API for iOS developers.

01:19:54   So that was a really fascinating point.

01:19:56   Maybe thanks to Marzipan, we will have that kind of influence

01:20:00   back towards the iPad of if you want to bring this to the Mac,

01:20:04   then you can also have this control, this API on the iPad,

01:20:07   which would be nice.

01:20:10   There are some other minor additions in Reader 4,

01:20:14   better ways to have image previews.

01:20:17   And this is something that I do not quite understand.

01:20:21   There's a new built-in reading list feature

01:20:23   that allows you to save articles for later,

01:20:29   which is great, but you cannot save articles

01:20:32   from other apps, it's just a reading list

01:20:35   for things you discover in your RSS.

01:20:38   And how's that different from storing some article

01:20:43   from your RSS and finding it later?

01:20:47   I think it would make so much more sense

01:20:49   to have a Reader extension that lets you save any article,

01:20:52   any link from Safari or Twitter or whatever.

01:20:56   Instead, this is a built-in reading list for Reader,

01:20:59   but it only applies to items

01:21:01   that you save from Reader itself.

01:21:03   So if you come across an article on Twitter

01:21:05   or Safari or whatever, you cannot save it to Reader.

01:21:09   So there should be an extension.

01:21:11   - And there's support for ReadItLater services.

01:21:14   You can hook up your Instapaper account to Reader,

01:21:17   but it treats it like it's RSS articles,

01:21:20   like the UI isn't personalized enough, I don't think,

01:21:24   for that sort of content.

01:21:25   And, like to your point,

01:21:27   if there was a share extension for this,

01:21:29   or you could send stuff to it,

01:21:31   then I could like potentially get stuff

01:21:34   from somewhere into my Instapaper account via Reader.

01:21:37   Like, it feels like that side of things

01:21:39   just isn't done enough for what I would want.

01:21:43   - Yeah, so, and there's also support

01:21:47   for bionic reading, which is not a feature for people listening to old mic shows, but

01:21:55   it's a feature that sort of tries to make it easier to read text on the web more quickly.

01:22:07   How?

01:22:08   It makes the first few letters of a word bold.

01:22:15   It makes the font bold of the first few letters of any word,

01:22:19   which in theory allows you to scan words more quickly.

01:22:23   I'm looking at the website and I can't read this paragraph.

01:22:26   Yeah, it's a... let's just say opinionated.

01:22:31   It makes it like I can only read one word at a time.

01:22:36   It reminds me of the dyslexia font somehow.

01:22:40   I don't know why.

01:22:41   Well, I think the like the open dyslexia font, like

01:22:45   I think it has a lot of like loops and stuff in some letters are thicker.

01:22:52   So there's like a thickness difference in the letters.

01:22:55   I think that's what it is.

01:22:57   Yeah, I can't read this.

01:22:59   It's this is upsetting to me.

01:23:01   I'm sure it works for some people. Right.

01:23:03   But that does not work for my brain.

01:23:05   Not for me either.

01:23:05   So, um, reader for, I, I, I kind of wonder if maybe, you know, these days there's no

01:23:12   shortage of really good, uh, RSS clients on, on iOS.

01:23:16   And I, and I have to wonder, people still use an RSS.

01:23:18   Yes.

01:23:20   Especially in this day and age of getting your news from social apps is terrible.

01:23:25   Well, cause I was just thinking there's like, you know, more and more centralized

01:23:29   services these days too, like Apple news or whatever.

01:23:32   That I assume that's not overtaken.

01:23:35   I mean, I don't use any of these types of apps. It's just if it's on Twitter or read it

01:23:38   this is a bigger topic, but I feel like there's a there's a

01:23:41   There's always gonna be a niche of people who prefer RSS because it's the idea of

01:23:46   You're fully in control of the sources that you read. There's no algorithm. There's no

01:23:51   Major company having some kind of vested interest in the kind of news that you see. It's your subscriptions

01:23:59   it's your file in the sense of like you can export your subscriptions as an opml file,

01:24:06   you can fully control everything here, and you're never gonna see stuff you don't wanna

01:24:11   see from sources you don't care about.

01:24:12   Yeah, you know this might be the issue with your Twitter experiment, that I get all my

01:24:17   news from Twitter.

01:24:19   So that might be... we'll see, that might be a bit trickier for me, I'll find out.

01:24:25   But yeah, anyway, my main takeaway was I'm gonna use Reader for a while and see how it

01:24:30   works, but I have to wonder if maybe these days apps like Fiery Feeds and Lear are maybe

01:24:37   doing a bit more on iOS in terms of the features that they have and all the customizations

01:24:43   that they have, the keyboard navigation, the drag and drop support.

01:24:47   It feels like maybe Reader is still stuck in a bit in the past in an era of what iOS

01:24:54   were like three years ago, four years ago, and especially Fivvy feeds, like all the options that

01:25:00   you have like smart views and filters and custom share actions, that kind of stuff,

01:25:07   it's hard to match. So we'll see how this experiment goes in using Reeder, but it's really

01:25:15   beautiful and it's really smooth and fast and fluid, so I'll give you that. It's very nice

01:25:21   looking and a pleasure to use. I think that about does it. If you want to

01:25:26   find the links to stuff we spoke about this week you can head over to the

01:25:30   website relay.fm/connected/241 links of course will also be in your

01:25:37   podcast app you're listening to us in probably most of them do it the good

01:25:41   ones do it. If you have follow-up or feedback you want to send us there is an

01:25:47   email link in the sidebar of that web page or you can find us on Twitter.

01:25:52   Myke is there as I M Y K E.

01:25:55   Myke of course is the host of a lot of shows here at relay FM.

01:25:58   You can check those out at relay.fm/shows.

01:26:02   You can find Federico on Twitter, at least when he's done with this article

01:26:06   at Vitici V I T I C C I and he is the editor in chief of max stories.net.

01:26:12   You can find me on Twitter as ISMH and I write 512 pixels.net.

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01:26:20   Squarespace and away and until next week gentlemen say goodbye. I'll leave it at you cheerio adios