241: 123 Twitter Client Doesn't Work

0:00:00(upbeat music)

0:00:02- Hello and welcome to Connected, Episode 241.

0:00:12It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

0:00:14Hover, Squarespace, and Away.

0:00:17I'm your host, Steven Hackett,

0:00:18and I am joined by my co-host, Myke Curley.

0:00:21- Oh, hi.

0:00:23- Hey buddy, it's an odd episode.

0:00:25You go first.

0:00:26- There are always odd episodes when I'm around.

0:00:29Hmm. And we are joined by Mr. Federico Vatici.

0:00:33Oh, hey, welcome back. How are you?

0:00:36It's good to be back. I genuinely missed recording with you all the last couple of weeks. I got

0:00:42several notes from listeners. Thank you for making sure everything is okay. Just a hectic

0:00:46family life couple weeks, but everything's cool. And we're back and we're going to talk

0:00:50about topics.

0:00:53I'm leaving, by the way. Did I not tell you? I'm out of here. Oh, yeah, I'm off.

0:00:57You're done?

0:00:58Figured like I've handed back over now to you. So I'm off now Wow. Well, we had a good run, you know

0:01:04We've been recording this show and it's pretty sure doing it six years need me. You can keep doing it

0:01:09It doesn't need you. It's the three of us together

0:01:12well, or sometimes me John and Casey but

0:01:16That might happen again in the summer this year, I think we need to talk about that

0:01:23I've realized this weekend that a

0:01:28a we are a month away from WDC, which is just extremely upsetting in every way.

0:01:33Because then then it's summer and people travel,

0:01:37I'm going to be gone for a week in July. It's like, it's going to be,

0:01:40when you were a kid, summer was relaxing, right? You didn't have to go to school.

0:01:44You can just play video games and ride your bike and eat snacks. But as adults,

0:01:48summer I think is maybe more stressful than the other seasons because everyone is

0:01:52off doing things and not doing their jobs.

0:01:55Yeah, I'm currently making the prediction that in July there will only be one episode

0:02:00where all three of us are on it at the same time. That is my prediction.

0:02:04Do we score it?

0:02:06No, we don't need to score it.

0:02:09You want to score everything.

0:02:10Because the thing is, there's no point having scores in this because I can win that. I can

0:02:17just not show up, right? So like, you don't want to score it because then if there's like

0:02:22points on the line, you just won't hear from me for four weeks. Points are important.

0:02:25So it's a non-graded prediction. Just making sure.

0:02:30Because I know when I'm away, I know when Steven's away, and like, I mean, who knows

0:02:35when you're going to be away? You go away in July.

0:02:38What do you mean you go away like I'm some kind of nomad?

0:02:43Like you just live in a beach hut for like two months or something. And then something

0:02:49that you started doing over the last couple of years, you go to the beach and then take

0:02:52a vacation and go back to the beach and go home. It's like you take a vacation from your

0:02:56vacation.

0:02:57Look, sitting by the Italian seaside is very exhausting.

0:03:01No, it's just you, once you have a beach house, it's great because you can be on vacation

0:03:07at your house, but then you also want to go somewhere else, you know, go to a hotel, actually,

0:03:12you know, treat yourself to a real vacation.

0:03:15From the vacation?

0:03:16is not a real vacation. It's your beach house. It's yours. You gotta care about it, you know?

0:03:22Yeah. But now I can do podcasts from the iPad, so, you know, it's not like when I actually

0:03:30disappeared years ago. You guys are complaining too much about my summer habits. It's not fair.

0:03:35It's not a complaint anymore because I'm used to it.

0:03:38We just accept that you don't love us in June, July.

0:03:41Yeah, you'd love the beach more.

0:03:44Well, yeah. You have a point.

0:03:45Yes, yes. You're actually correct.

0:03:48All right, I am back. And so I can reinstitute order into the chaos that was the last two

0:03:57episodes connected. And we're going to start with follow up. Do we have to?

0:04:02I mean, it is in the document. So we should do it.

0:04:07Just as a favor to you.

0:04:10And for the record, Myke put most of this in, not me.

0:04:13Yeah, I was about to say, in the interest of clarity, this is basically all my follow-up.

0:04:17iFixit removed their Galaxy Fold teardown. So I referenced this on the last episode of, like,

0:04:23iFixit pulled apart a Samsung Galaxy Fold and were able to show a bunch of the areas where it failed.

0:04:30And then a few days later, they were like, "LOL, we had to pull it down because Samsung asked."

0:04:37And this is just one of those interesting things where I kind of want to get a feeling from YouTube

0:04:42about a story like this because what's happened is, right, somebody gave that device to iFixit

0:04:49and probably broke a contract or at least made a situation difficult between Samsung

0:04:56and the whoever it was that gave iFixit the phone.

0:04:59And then iFixit went along with the request and took it down.

0:05:03And considering both of you are real journalists, I want to know what you think of something

0:05:08like this.

0:05:09It's kind of shady territory.

0:05:13Normally, like if you...

0:05:15See, this is difficult because if you have this kind of source, and the source gets in trouble,

0:05:22and you want to make sure that this person keeps collaborating with you,

0:05:27I could see why iFixit wanted to sort of make sure that they would cover,

0:05:34they would protect the source and do whatever Samsung was requesting.

0:05:38But also it's not a... I don't think it's a good... Maybe Steven can jump in here.

0:05:43I don't think it's a good look, journalistically speaking, to have a report out and then just make it disappear as if it never happened.

0:05:54But also I've been... Years ago I was in a situation where, you know, when you get hit with...

0:06:04What's it called? The DCMA? The Copyright Millennium Act. And you get hit with that

0:06:10kind of request and you get a letter from a lawyer, you know, actually multiple lawyers.

0:06:16It's kind of scary. And you get out, you get out.

0:06:21I'm sure you obviously can't talk about it, but like,

0:06:24I prefer not to, but it was really years ago when I was stupid and young and reckless.

0:06:30So you comply to that, right, when you get that kind of letter and when you're, for example,

0:06:35when your hosting provider says, "Hey, by the way, we've been contacted by this company

0:06:39says that you're posting copyrighted content on your server and unless you comply we're

0:06:44going to shut it down." So I can see why even external, some kind of external pressure from

0:06:51maybe a CDN company or your hosting provider would say, "Oh, by the way, Samsung got in

0:06:56in touch with us about photos and details

0:06:58that you have on your site.

0:06:59So unless you take it down,

0:07:01we're gonna actually take down your site.

0:07:03So yeah, it's difficult, I don't know.

0:07:07- Yeah, my sort of assumption is that

0:07:10whatever reviewer get handed their phone off to iFixit,

0:07:14and I would imagine that Samsung knew who that was

0:07:17pretty quickly, like they do nice imagery

0:07:20unless they obscure the serial number.

0:07:22Samsung probably knows whose phone that was.

0:07:25And my guess is that, you know,

0:07:28iFixit took it down because A,

0:07:29Samsung came knocking with their lawyers,

0:07:32but they also wanted to somehow preserve

0:07:34the relationship with the reviewer.

0:07:36I don't know, my guess is whoever gave it to them

0:07:38won't be getting any more Samsung review units.

0:07:40Like, that feels like a showstopper

0:07:43from the Samsung perspective.

0:07:44'Cause when you get a review unit, there is,

0:07:47well, very often, there's actual paperwork saying,

0:07:50this is what you can and cannot do with it,

0:07:52this is who you can and cannot show it to,

0:07:54And I mean, clearly this has got to be a violation of that

0:07:59agreement.

0:07:59If this was a reviewer, which I expect it probably was,

0:08:02because it doesn't seem like anybody else had access

0:08:05to these.

0:08:06I've seen people say, oh, what if it was a carrier?

0:08:08But I don't think these have been sent to carriers.

0:08:10I don't think you could buy the phone through.

0:08:13Maybe-- OK, connected sometimes we have these theories.

0:08:16And so maybe there was an engineer

0:08:20at Samsung who knew that they were going to explode.

0:08:23And he's like, "No, no, don't do it.

0:08:25"They're gonna fall apart."

0:08:27And out of blind rage,

0:08:31he stole a unit from Samsung on the cover of the night

0:08:34and gave it to iFixit to prove himself correct.

0:08:36- Also not a wild,

0:08:38I mean, you've peppered it up with some real espionage,

0:08:41but that's also not a wild theory either, right,

0:08:43that it came from inside the house.

0:08:45- But also, I think when people say carriers,

0:08:48they don't mean like the carrier store,

0:08:51but I think they refer to the certification process

0:08:55that goes on when people who work for a carrier

0:08:58have to verify that this phone is gonna be on our network.

0:09:02And so there's multiple engineers that test these new phones,

0:09:05new and upcoming phones in their labs.

0:09:07And so it may be somebody from a carrier

0:09:10that has some kind of long-term loan for these units

0:09:14and is maybe friends with iFixit,

0:09:17which will actually explain why

0:09:19and how I think it is often access to that makes sense because I was wondering right

0:09:25like if this was a review unit what did the reviewer think was gonna happen like how would

0:09:32you give this device back to Samsung back like you're like what did you do to it nothing

0:09:38just like just randomly exploded yeah I mean like that is what they did but you just you

0:09:44sit back like a ziploc bag full of galaxy fold parts like I dropped it down the stairs

0:09:49I don't know what happened.

0:09:51And then I dropped it down the stairs and then a knife landed on it and that's why that

0:09:55cable's cut in such a specific way.

0:09:57Every single component just fell apart like a Lego car.

0:10:01The whole thing is strange.

0:10:03But my feeling though, really, when I look at this is like, yeah, of course they took

0:10:07it down.

0:10:09Because they had to, right?

0:10:11Like no matter what the situation was, it was either going to be a case that they were

0:10:15going to get hit by a lawsuit or they have put somebody in hot water and they shouldn't

0:10:22have done that. But like it was still strange and something I find even weirder like from

0:10:28the iFixit Twitter account they tweeted "You might not be able to view our Galaxy Fold

0:10:31teardown anymore but you can still watch us talk about it with Dieter Bohn on Repair Radio"

0:10:35and it's like "Why are you owning this so much?" Like I don't get it! Like why are you

0:10:40owning that?

0:10:41It's really weird. It's really weird. And I mean, this is just like the perfect cherry

0:10:47on top of the weirdness sundae that is the Galaxy Fold story. Like every single step

0:10:52of this story has been so bizarre.

0:10:54It's like a telenovela. It's unbelievable. This whole thing is so incredible to me. Like

0:10:59at breakfast a couple of days ago, my wife Idina was like, I don't know how it came up,

0:11:04but she was just like, "Oh, I saw about that phone. Are you still going to get it?" And

0:11:09was like, as I said to Federico on the show last week, "yeah probably" because I can't

0:11:16stop myself because like then MKBHD posted his review right? Yes. And like it's just

0:11:21another example of the type of thing that I'm talking about where it's kind of like

0:11:24everybody's being like "yeah I mean like it's really broken but like it's amazing

0:11:29though" right and there's something about like the way that that he and others have

0:11:33have spoken about it of like, this is the next big form factor. Like this has the opportunity,

0:11:39this has the chance, right? Like that there is enough even in an early version to be like,

0:11:45oh, this makes a lot of sense that it's probably, I mean, a lot of people are saying it's like,

0:11:49oh, this is the next big form factor since the smartphone. I disagree with that. Like

0:11:53my view on this is this is the biggest form factor change since the Galaxy Note, since

0:11:58phones got big, right? Like that was a big change, right? So we had smartphones and they

0:12:02were small, then they got big. And that changed a lot about how we use them, how we interact

0:12:07with them, considerations that we need to make. Like it was a change. Because all this

0:12:10is really is just two phones like stuck together. Like it's not a completely new device, but

0:12:15like it feels like that is the biggest step since phones started getting large, since

0:12:20the phablet became a thing.

0:12:22Yeah, potentially. And I think in that MKBHD review, I've watched a lot of videos, so I

0:12:26may be muddying the waters, but I think he talks a little bit about like, does this failure

0:12:31of this phone does it like color this form factor forever? And I don't think it does.

0:12:36I mean, if you look at early smartphones, a lot of them were just like really pretty bad. And the

0:12:41iPhone was the first good one, but even the first iPhone really wasn't all that good. It is

0:12:46thundering like crazy outside, by the way. So I apologize if it sounds like thunderstorms in your

0:12:50podcast. That was serious. Yeah. As I, as I mentioned, the first iPhone wasn't very good.

0:12:55Thunder rose behind me. So that's something to be concerned about.

0:12:59- How dare you!

0:13:00(laughing)

0:13:03- I wonder.

0:13:03So I think I agree with that.

0:13:06I don't think that the failure of this Galaxy Fold

0:13:11version one, I don't think it means this form factor is doomed

0:13:15because I actually agree with you, Myke.

0:13:16I don't know for sure if this is the next big thing.

0:13:18It may or may not be,

0:13:20but it sure seems like it has a chance

0:13:22and I think that that is still true today

0:13:25after all of the madness of the last week.

0:13:28the current only current possibility, right?

0:13:31Which was like why all these technology companies

0:13:34started getting into VR and still are, right?

0:13:37I can still put, because it's like, well,

0:13:38this is a device that is the closest

0:13:41to the future that we have.

0:13:42So we'll just put a bunch of money into it

0:13:45in the hopes that it will keep pushing forward.

0:13:48And on that, there's this thing called the Oculus Quest,

0:13:51which is coming out soon,

0:13:52which is like it's completely untethered from a computer,

0:13:55which is, that is very intriguing as a device.

0:13:58And it runs full games.

0:14:00It's not like the Google Cardboard or whatever,

0:14:02like proper games.

0:14:04- If you're Samsung, there is an added benefit

0:14:08to this being the future because Samsung will supply

0:14:11the screens for this thing, right?

0:14:13- This is one of the reasons they need

0:14:14to make this device work, because they need

0:14:16to entice their partners, right?

0:14:18Like that's what, there is so much writing on this for them,

0:14:21which is why it's so very unfortunate

0:14:24this one didn't even make it out of the door yet. I have faith in them though, I do, because

0:14:30you know, they will be throwing everything they can at this to make this thing work.

0:14:37I can't even imagine the amount of money they are losing, because they've made all these phones.

0:14:41Now if they make a change that's big enough that they have to start again,

0:14:45or they need to open them all and like do something to it, like that is so much money

0:14:51that they are losing. But they got to do it. Yeah, it doesn't work now. So anyways, I feel

0:14:58like that's enough about the Galaxy Fold. Rest in peace. Never enough. Never enough.

0:15:03So do we think that we will see an updated Galaxy Fold or do we think Samsung sort of

0:15:11buries this for a little while and then they name it something else and it looks different,

0:15:14you know, six months from now? No, I think like Galaxy Fold's coming out. Like I think it's

0:15:19it's happening within a few months time yeah it will happen. What I'm most

0:15:23intrigued about right now though is what's gonna happen to Huawei's phone.

0:15:26Ooh the Mate X. Yeah the Mate X yeah because the screen on the outside right

0:15:34yeah yeah yeah seems bad idea. Seems like in hindsight now it seems like

0:15:40potentially a risky proposition unless they're doing things significantly

0:15:44different to Samsung. We spoke several weeks ago now about the power beats Pro, which are the

0:15:51sort of workout design like clips over your ear wireless things from beats they're using the new

0:16:00what's the new chip called the h1 chip? Yes, they have a hoy telephone they have seems like what's

0:16:08what's gonna be pretty good battery life.

0:16:10And these now have a ship date of May 10th,

0:16:13they're 250 bucks.

0:16:15So they are more than the AirPods,

0:16:17but I think you get a very different experience

0:16:21from the way these are designed

0:16:22and the battery life increase and everything.

0:16:24So it seems like people are like,

0:16:26like just looking on Twitter and stuff,

0:16:27people seem really excited about these headphones,

0:16:30way more than I thought would be the case, honestly.

0:16:33- I think that this is a much better product

0:16:37if you have specific needs.

0:16:39Oh yeah.

0:16:41You know what I mean? Like this is

0:16:42AirPods is so much more

0:16:44general purpose.

0:16:47And these power beats are like

0:16:49if you love that technology but you

0:16:52do heavy workouts, you can't

0:16:53you might not be able to use AirPods

0:16:55so you might not feel comfortable

0:16:56using them right? Like you might

0:16:57not feel they're protected enough

0:16:58for you to like instead of knocking

0:17:00them out.

0:17:01And these you know they're water

0:17:04resistant, sweat resistant.

0:17:05I don't know how much AirPods are

0:17:07that and they've got like the different ear tips and stuff like that so for people that

0:17:11AirPods are not comfortable for. It is like AirPods Pro is like how I've been thinking

0:17:18about it in my mind. It's like this is for a very specific type of user and so it's not

0:17:24surprising to me that like the interest in them is not widespread but amongst the people

0:17:30that care they really care because they really want it.

0:17:33Yeah, Sylvia, she's been looking forward to the Powerbeats Pro.

0:17:39She uses AirPods and she uses them a bunch.

0:17:42Like when she's choreographing and she's testing a new choreography,

0:17:46she puts AirPods on, but she doesn't love them because she says that they're not stable enough.

0:17:52And I think it's because she's one of those people where the shape of the AirPods is not ideal for the shape of her ears.

0:18:01And so she's been asking actually for the past couple of years, is Apple ever going

0:18:06to make truly wireless the Powerbeats with the earhook design.

0:18:13And we're going to get a pair of these as soon as they're available.

0:18:18And also the fact that they have customizable ear tips, that's also a big win because,

0:18:23you know, if the design of your ear, if the shape of your ear does not match the ideal

0:18:30vision of Johnny I've designed earbuds well you're out of luck don't you

0:18:37remember the ears the ears presentation yes remember that when when like they

0:18:42went to ear pods right there were ear pods for a while just like lots of

0:18:45people's pictures of ears that was yes I'll put a link in the show notes to

0:18:49that video I absolutely love my new air pods I really do I've fallen in love

0:18:55this product all over again. They're amazing. They're so good. So good. Like it's, it's the

0:19:02battery life is so much better. I actually really enjoy Siri. It's very useful to me.

0:19:08And I'm wearing them. I mean, part of it is because I'm wearing them a bunch more.

0:19:12Because now Adina is at home more. We're both wanting to listen to things. So we both use our

0:19:18AirPods. But still she still does it. Like they're just all over the house, just outside of the case.

0:19:24I can't fathom how you could live that way.

0:19:29This cannot go on for any longer, Myke.

0:19:31You gotta find a solution to this problem.

0:19:33I've told her, I've publicly shamed her about it, like in everything, but she just doesn't

0:19:37care.

0:19:38She just puts them wherever she wants.

0:19:39It's maddening to me.

0:19:40I just don't see the benefit.

0:19:42Like I don't see how you could just take them out and just leave them on the kitchen counter.

0:19:46Like I don't get it.

0:19:48I don't understand how they work.

0:19:51It's very concerning.

0:19:52We have a lot more to talk about.

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0:22:13And relay FM.

0:22:14I wanted to provide an official update on things I've been up to and I think Myke knows

0:22:22sort of what I've been working on. As usual I've been sending him little previews and

0:22:28snippets.

0:22:29Yes and no actually. You've been sending me some stuff, more graphical stuff, like images.

0:22:35I have absolutely no idea what this article is that you're working on. I have no idea

0:22:39what it is.

0:22:40I feel really left out.

0:22:41Well you've been busy excavating things in your backyards.

0:22:45That's true.

0:22:46No, everyone's been too scared to talk to you.

0:22:49Didn't want to, you know, bother you.

0:22:53So I've been working on this major story that I would like to have on the website before

0:23:01WWDC.

0:23:02It's like a very big, in-depth story.

0:23:08So I kind of don't want to spoil the topic, but let's just say that it's about the iPad.

0:23:14Weird.

0:23:15And yeah, I know, but it's like, to give you some context, this has been like an iOS review

0:23:21like effort.

0:23:23So the type of depth and the type of like, I have a mind map and I have multiple chapters

0:23:29and multiple sections and I'm working on really nice looking assets for the story.

0:23:36So it's the whole deal, right?

0:23:37There's going to be extras for club members. There's gonna be an e-book version and I love that stuff

0:23:43So the the idea would be that this should come out before

0:23:49WWDC

0:23:52Just as a

0:23:53Sort of as a final update before things change

0:23:57So that would be my idea to kind of talk about the iPad from a very specific and personal angle before

0:24:03The reason that I bring it up in the show is not just to build hype, because that's

0:24:10what I do, but also, I mean, come on, you gotta...

0:24:15You're a hype man.

0:24:17Federico is the hype man.

0:24:18There should be a poster for that.

0:24:20No, but I kind of wanted to put out a call and I wanted to ask listeners if there's any

0:24:29particular aspect of my iPad workflow.

0:24:33So the ways that I work on the iPad.

0:24:36If you have any particular question

0:24:39that you would like to see,

0:24:41and I know this sounds super generic and vague,

0:24:45but bear with me.

0:24:46If there's anything particular about the way

0:24:48that I work on the iPad that you would like

0:24:50to know more about, send me a question on Twitter,

0:24:53send me an email, whatever.

0:24:54I just wanna make sure that I can cover

0:24:57all the possible grounds that I can with this story.

0:25:00In the, of course, in the limits of the scope of the story,

0:25:04which is a pretty large scope, I will admit,

0:25:06but there's still going to be not too many chapters,

0:25:10but it's pretty broad topic.

0:25:12So-- - So I'm guessing

0:25:14it's like a drawing the line in the sand,

0:25:18this is where the iPad is before.

0:25:20- Yeah, kinda, yeah, kinda, yeah.

0:25:23But sort of from my perspective then,

0:25:26So going back through all the changes that I've been through over the past few years

0:25:32that I've been using the iPad and from that perspective of trying to evaluate how things

0:25:41changed and how they're better now in some ways or they're maybe worse in other ways

0:25:46and how they could get better at WWDC.

0:25:51And so it's not just a summary of the ways that I work,

0:25:56but also I bring forth some problems and some ideas

0:26:03for how things could get better,

0:26:05but it's not in the style of the wish lists

0:26:09that I used to do.

0:26:10So it's not in that style, but it's got some wishes

0:26:13and it's something pretty unique.

0:26:14It's somewhere in the middle of an iOS review

0:26:17and more of a here's how I work type of story.

0:26:22And it's been really fun putting this together

0:26:24and it's actually been easier for me

0:26:27to write about this stuff than it is to write an iOS review.

0:26:30Even though the scope again is really similar,

0:26:33not the scope but maybe the length

0:26:35and the depth of the story is similar,

0:26:37but it's been so much easier in terms of like,

0:26:39you know, I have a chapter that is about 15,000 words

0:26:44and that took me like three days to finish.

0:26:47It's like that can never happen for an IUS review.

0:26:50Is that because you don't have to research?

0:26:53It's just coming from your mind.

0:26:55It's just coming.

0:26:57Well, I had to outline and to, you know, to sketch out a mind map.

0:27:01Well, yeah, but I mean, like, you're not having to like do a bunch of work.

0:27:05And like, here's a I have to understand how this works and watch this video

0:27:09and read this documentation to make sure I got all the points correctly,

0:27:11because it's just your opinions and your usage as opposed to like,

0:27:16Let me tell you about how messages in the cloud is going to work or whatever.

0:27:22No, really, that's exactly right.

0:27:24And also, if anything, I think the biggest problem has not been research, but just memory.

0:27:30Just remembering things that I actually wrote about years ago that I had completely forgotten about.

0:27:36And so, more than once, I came across when adding links to a section that I'm editing,

0:27:44and I'm googling around, searching for old articles about a specific iPad feature or

0:27:49app, and I come across one of my stories. And I'm like, "Oh, well, I guess I've

0:27:54read about this already years ago." So…

0:27:56Yeah, I can imagine that that happens to Steven a lot.

0:28:00You know, sometimes you just need to learn about the different versions of iSync, and

0:28:05past Steven had you covered.

0:28:09Yeah, so that's basically what I'm doing now, if I'm a bit less active on Twitter,

0:28:18maybe for at least another week to ten days, because I think I'm about, like I'm approaching

0:28:25writing the last chapter, so that's a good sign. So I would say I'm about 60 to 70%

0:28:34done, maybe, which is good. But again, it's a much faster process than doing the iOS review,

0:28:40even though, again, there will be all of the things that you're used to seeing when I do

0:28:44one of these stories. So the extras and talking about it on the podcast and the ebook version

0:28:51and tons of screenshots and all of that.

0:28:53If you want to talk about it on the show, you're going to have to do your usual thing.

0:28:56I'm going to need it very early so I can very slowly read through it as I want to do.

0:29:03Yes, we will do that. You will get an advanced press copy.

0:29:08Advanced screening. You gotta like put my name all over it in case it slips out.

0:29:11Like a watermark. My curly.

0:29:14It shows up on iFixit, you know who did it.

0:29:15So yeah, that's basically what I've been doing for the past couple of months. Quietly behind

0:29:24the scenes. And just writing for the past three weeks, almost a month. Yeah.

0:29:31That's great. I'm excited to see this because you have put so much stuff out there, but I think it's

0:29:37been a long time since you've done like an end-to-end really inclusive look at like where

0:29:43things are in your sort of setup and workflow and if that's what this is then I'm definitely excited

0:29:48to read it. Yeah, yeah that's what it is. Yeah I always learn something from stuff like that.

0:29:54I hope you will. It means I've done something right. So yeah, getting there and it will be fun

0:30:02to talk about in the context of some of the ways that I work on the iPad these days and sort of

0:30:09some of the tools that I've even commissioned two people to build for me specifically. Like

0:30:18you'll see it's gonna be fun to cover yeah it is the year 2019 that means we have to talk about

0:30:25aperture apparently apparently so can you know what actually before we get into this can you give

0:30:32us a little history lesson well there's a there's an article over at maxstories.net that i wrote

0:30:38last year about the history of aperture you can go read this is one of those things like i google it

0:30:44I did this! How useful! Yeah, way to go, past Steven. So if we wind the clock back to, I don't

0:30:50know, 2005, you had like iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, and then Apple was making like pro versions of

0:30:59all those. So you had iMovie, but then you also had something like Final Cut, which, you know,

0:31:04so came along. So did the consumer version of these products all come before the pro versions?

0:31:10I plead the fifth.

0:31:12- Okay.

0:31:13- I'm not.

0:31:13- Did they ever make a pro version of iDVD?

0:31:15That's basically what I'm asking.

0:31:15- Yes, there was a tool.

0:31:18Joe Steele, if he's around, will know.

0:31:20- What does that mean, what you just said?

0:31:23- Do you know what iDVD is?

0:31:24- No, no, you plead, no, you plead something.

0:31:28- Oh, plead the fifth.

0:31:30It means that I'm not sure of the answer

0:31:31and I don't want to incriminate myself.

0:31:33- It's like an American legal system thing.

0:31:35- It's an American thing.

0:31:36- All right.

0:31:37- There was, there was DVD studio pro, Myke.

0:31:40Pro DbD authoring from Apple.

0:31:42That's wild. I was just I was making a dumb joke, but I've never seen that application run

0:31:49Okay, you know your garage band and logic even the Apple bot logic later on like there was this idea of you have consumer versions

0:31:57and then you have pro versions of these like creative Mac apps and aperture was sort of the

0:32:04the pro version of iPhoto. It came out in 2005 and then Apple like aperture's

0:32:09history. Like you really should go read this article.

0:32:11Apertures history is very rough.

0:32:14Like there were rumors basically just all the time that it was canceled.

0:32:18There was a story in 2006 that Apple had disbanded the entire team.

0:32:22I remember that. I remember as reported by think secret.

0:32:27This is the era that we're in.

0:32:31Not and well. No. Was that the one that Apple sued into oblivion? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why did they do that?

0:32:38They they there was a story about some I think

0:32:41about unreleased hardware

0:32:44Something and anyways, well, that's the hardware that they like that wasn't some real

0:32:49Potentially potentially it wasn't real. It's that is up to debate. I should write about that

0:32:55I'm putting that on my list. You should write about that. What happened to think secret? Mm-hmm

0:32:59I'm gonna what are you can literally hear Stephen writing this idea down?

0:33:04But aperture 2 did eventually show up and it got better over time and

0:33:16then it

0:33:18Aperture 3 was the final version and over time they sort of brought I photo and aperture together

0:33:24So eventually they could use the same photo library so you could open your library

0:33:29Either in iPhoto or Aperture it got things like faces and places, you know, features were used to today

0:33:34Kind of made the way into Aperture over time, but then Aperture was sort of put out to pasture in

0:33:402014 was the final version that shipped version 3.6 and

0:33:47It that when when the photos app showed up Apple sort of replaced iPhoto and Aperture

0:33:54at once. Now lots of people weren't happy with that because photos even to this day doesn't do some of the really

0:33:59like

0:34:01Aperture had a lot of really good tools for managing large numbers of photos. Like if you were a professional photographer

0:34:06You could shoot tethered into aperture or you could import hundreds of images and there were lots of good organizational tools

0:34:12Like what we see in Lightroom now people basically move from Aperture to Lightroom if they needed that. The replacement of

0:34:18Aperture with photos was not like Final Cut. Mm-hmm, right? Where Final Cut was like

0:34:24alright it wasn't as great but then over time it became I mean I don't know if

0:34:30it's exactly it right but like it seems like most I don't hear people complaining

0:34:34about it as much anymore yeah it adopted all that pro stuff released a lot of it

0:34:38photos just hasn't you can do real working photos that's what you're gonna

0:34:42think that's what some people are saying it seems like Apple were happier to

0:34:47abandon aperture than they were Final Cut or whatever right yeah it seems like

0:34:51Well, you got to think that final cut was just much larger install base than aperture ever was. Yeah, because it was aperture actually good

0:34:59So here's the thing

0:35:01Okay, so let's do the nose first now

0:35:03I'm gonna come back to that question because there's something I want to say about that

0:35:06All right

0:35:07The news is that Macrumor spotted a knowledge base article that says hey if you're still running aperture

0:35:14for some reason it's not going to work after Mojave and

0:35:18And the assumption is this is due to the 64-bit transition that Aputure won't run after Mojave.

0:35:25So that's the news.

0:35:27That's why we're talking about this.

0:35:28It's not just that I am in some sort of fever dream about an old software program.

0:35:33It's going to die.

0:35:34And the response to this has been vastly more interesting than I anticipated.

0:35:40When I read this article, I was like, "Huh, Aputure is still right on Mojave?"

0:35:46I kind of assumed it died off years ago, but it was still hanging on somehow.

0:35:50And, uh, uh, people online seems to at least some people still are, we're

0:35:56using it and I think it's for those features that photos never got.

0:36:00And maybe they didn't want to move to Lightroom or from what email I got.

0:36:04Someone didn't want to move to Lightroom because they don't want the

0:36:06subscription that comes with that.

0:36:07Right.

0:36:07Cause it's part of the Adobe creative cloud.

0:36:09And I, I think that that's all really interesting a, that it was still around,

0:36:14But people were like, oh yeah, like aperture was like the last great Mac app.

0:36:17Apple wrote, it's like, you didn't use aperture versions one or two.

0:36:21They were really bad.

0:36:22Like aperture in the beginning was a dog and all, but the most powerful

0:36:27desktop max, it eventually got to a point where you could run it on a laptop,

0:36:31but that was not true.

0:36:32In the beginning, the specs said it would run and I ran all three versions.

0:36:36I used aperture for years, but it was so slow and so heavy, especially

0:36:41like in the pre Intel days, it was just,

0:36:44It really was a bit of a mess of an app for a long time.

0:36:48And it was a great icon and a pretty good user interface for the time.

0:36:54But I think that holding it up on this pedestal of like a great example of a

0:36:58fallen Mac app, like, I just don't know if it deserves to be in that hall of fame.

0:37:02You know, it was good at the end, but it took a long time to get there.

0:37:05Is there a hall of fame for those apps?

0:37:08Well, I mean, just, uh, I mean, there's one in my office.

0:37:11It's like a marble shelf and to have carved out of granite

0:37:18the icons of a couple of apps.

0:37:19No, but seriously, what are some of the good old fallen Mac apps?

0:37:24That's a good question.

0:37:27DVD Studio Pro?

0:37:28DVD Studio Pro, clearly, that we forgot existed.

0:37:32I mean, I think you could put the pre-gutted version of Final Cut.

0:37:37You could put iMovie HD in there.

0:37:40I think really you could put like a sort of midway through its life version of

0:37:44iPhoto in there. You know, iPhoto was incredible and then they got really

0:37:48bloated and slow.

0:37:49When it was like the scrolling was the thing.

0:37:52God, it was so good.

0:37:54Like we could just...

0:37:55What's with the scrolling?

0:37:56Well, that's where scrolls like butter comes from, right?

0:37:58iPhoto, that's where that phrase comes from.

0:38:01Like because you could scroll the library, right?

0:38:03Like you could just like scroll through your library and it would run really

0:38:06smoothly.

0:38:07faster than like a finder window with all those photos in it.

0:38:10It was it was really a very, very, very impressive thing.

0:38:13And they did the way you would be able to like

0:38:16run your mouse over the like the collection

0:38:19and you would be able to like scan through all the images. Right.

0:38:21They would like change the cover image in front of me.

0:38:24I thought it was an incredible application.

0:38:26It was.

0:38:27The iPhoto was the result of like the first.

0:38:31Do you remember the first scoop that me and you ever got?

0:38:33Do you remember that?

0:38:34I do.

0:38:35There was, I'm going to see if I can find this.

0:38:37So it was, they used to have like, you could geolocate, you could have like geolocation

0:38:42for the, for your images, right?

0:38:45And I noticed one day that the map looked weird.

0:38:49Like it didn't look like Google Maps when I was looking at like my home or whatever.

0:38:55And it turned out to be, what was it like open map or something?

0:38:59Open street map.

0:39:00Yep.

0:39:01And because this was before open street map.

0:39:04was before, actually not that long before, I think, Apple abandoned Google Maps. But

0:39:10it was like well known at that point that there you go, it was well known at that point

0:39:15that it was going to happen. I like, I really enjoy Steven's updates on this post, which

0:39:19is just listing all of the cool places that it got shared. The Next Web, The Verge, Daring

0:39:25Fireball, and then Open Street Map themselves. I got my fire though, in the mountain got

0:39:31on my fire. You just get all the people who link to you at the bottom of the page.

0:39:36Hey, you know what? 2012 is a different time in blogging.

0:39:41But yeah, that was fun, right? That was one of the great things of iPhoto. And the reason

0:39:46I noticed this is because I used to meticulously categorize my photos.

0:39:52Yeah, same.

0:39:53I actually was looking for some images the other day, and on an external hard drive I

0:39:58I have a backup of my iPhoto library.

0:40:01And it's like a bunch of images or whatever.

0:40:03And I have all of the stuff that is important to me,

0:40:05but it was something that I was looking for.

0:40:07And I pulled out this drive and I ended up opening iPhoto on my iMac,

0:40:11which was not a thing I thought I could do anymore.

0:40:13Turns out you can still do that.

0:40:16So this is why iPhoto is in my mind so much,

0:40:18because I was just in iPhoto like three or four days ago,

0:40:21which was a fun experience for me.

0:40:24And I because it was I went to the faces and everybody's names

0:40:27listed there. If you were in a picture of mine and I knew who you were, I created like a face

0:40:33like for you right and named it and everything. But I don't do, I have like 12 people on my

0:40:38photos that might, the current version of photos for all of that information. So like I don't,

0:40:44I just don't really, I don't really go for the categorization anymore, but I used to,

0:40:48used to be big on it. Ah photos.

0:40:51Yeah, aperture. Totes dead.

0:40:54Yeah. So can somebody tell me, because Apple is saying, oh, move it to photos, the app or Lightroom

0:41:00Classic, what is Lightroom Classic? Does anybody know what that is? It is the version of Lightroom

0:41:06that was the current version until maybe like a year ago. And it has a lot of those like big

0:41:11library import type tools. Lightroom, I think they're calling it Lightroom CC or Lightroom

0:41:17cloud. I don't have either installed. So forgive me if the name is not quite right. It is more

0:41:23a more, I think, kind of more like Photos where it wants to sync all of your images

0:41:28to a cloud service and I think it lacks some of the features that the old Lightroom did.

0:41:34I think if you were really dependent on workflows in Aperture, the classic Lightroom is probably

0:41:40a better fit.

0:41:41Okay.

0:41:42But just move it to Photos.

0:41:44Photos is fine.

0:41:46I want to know if literally any of our users is still using Aperture.

0:41:50I just want to know.

0:41:51Send a tweet to iMyke.

0:41:53I M Y K. Yeah. Yeah. And I will follow up with a detailed list on next week's episode

0:41:58if required.

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0:44:00- All right, so should we talk about

0:44:03Steven's app influenza status?

0:44:07- You're an app director, maybe.

0:44:09You could be one of those.

0:44:11- Is that still a job?

0:44:12Yeah, it's a thing again in 2019.

0:44:15No, I'm kidding.

0:44:17You should totally go with AppFluencer.

0:44:19It's better.

0:44:20What is happening in this segment?

0:44:22OK.

0:44:22So Myke, tell us what's going on with Overcast.

0:44:25So there's been-- last week, I think, over the weekend,

0:44:29Marco put out an update to Overcast,

0:44:31which included the ability to share audio clips.

0:44:34So you will now be able to, at any point in a show,

0:44:37you can press the Share button, and you can create a clip

0:44:39inside of Overcast, the podcast playing application,

0:44:42which I'm assuming most of our listeners probably use or know about.

0:44:46Actually, I know that most of our listeners use and know about.

0:44:50I actually know this information.

0:44:52So then it opens up a new UI in the application that lets you create an audio or video clip

0:44:56that you can then share on social media stuff, which solves a problem of the shareability

0:45:04and virality of podcasting in general, which is a thing that Steven was talking about in

0:45:09a podcast interview that ended up influencing this feature to be made by Marco for this

0:45:14current version of Overcast.

0:45:16Podfluencing I think is the word you're looking for.

0:45:19That was it, yeah that was definitely what I was looking for.

0:45:22Yeah because it is such an interesting problem, with text you can just block quote something,

0:45:27with video say it's on YouTube you can very easily make a URL that jumps right to that

0:45:33time marker, but with audio, because it's with podcasting in particular, it's so distributed,

0:45:39which is the way that open podcasting should be. This is a good thing for for the community

0:45:45of podcasts. But the downside is there's not a great way to share something overcast had

0:45:49time because links but you can do that. But then if you don't listen to podcasts in overcast,

0:45:56you can't do anything with it right. Like you're saying that with YouTube, you can do

0:45:59this, but you only can watch YouTube videos on YouTube.

0:46:02You don't have a choice, right?

0:46:04So like if you are a cash flow user and someone shares an overcast link,

0:46:08it's like, great, I can listen to these 20 seconds of this show

0:46:10randomly in the middle, but I can't do anything else of it that is easy.

0:46:15Yeah.

0:46:16And we even to pull the curtain back a little bit, like the web player

0:46:20on the relay site actually has a feature where we could send out a link

0:46:24with a timestamp, but even then people want to listen in their

0:46:29podcasts client or ideally just wherever they are already. So if you're on Twitter and someone

0:46:35shares something or you're in Instagram stories or you're on MySpace, wherever you are,

0:46:39you just want to see it there. And that's what Marco's feature seems to solve.

0:46:44Yeah, because then it's also more fun, I think, to have a little video clip to share than it is

0:46:49like, "Yes, this URL," right? Like it's just not as fun. Like it's a different kind of thing.

0:46:57I'll tell you as well, the official Twitter app is the best place to watch these clips

0:47:02because you can open up the video and you can minimize the video and just keep scrolling

0:47:06and you can drag the video around like its own picture in picture.

0:47:10Speaking of which, just a quick aside, I've been using the Twitter app for like two months,

0:47:17three months at this point. Totally fine.

0:47:19Well you're using a beta version, right? You're not using the official one?

0:47:23Not anymore. Not anymore. I have the normal version now.

0:47:26Can you say you're using it? What does that mean?

0:47:30I don't have Tweetbot or Twitterific or any other third-party client on my devices anymore.

0:47:34Okay. Whoa. Okay. So I'm intrigued about this because we're going back to this again, but

0:47:37from a very different place to the last time we had this conversation.

0:47:41Yeah.

0:47:42How do you deal with stuff like timeline syncing? Or do you just not care anymore?

0:47:45I don't anymore. I just gave up.

0:47:48What does that mean for you, though? Like, are you just not bothering to look at as much

0:47:52stuff?

0:47:53things. Actually three things. So there's three options. Either I open Twitter again

0:48:03and it's kept in memory the last place where I was in my timeline, and the iOS app has

0:48:10actually gotten better at restoring your previous spot in the timeline. So if it works, then

0:48:16great. Option two. There's too many tweets or the app has not kept my place in the timeline.

0:48:28So because there's a chronological option now, which I think was the impetus that sort

0:48:33of pushed me to try the Twitter app again and eventually stick into it. So if the timeline

0:48:40restoration didn't work, I just scroll to the top and read my timeline backwards.

0:48:45So I start from the latest tweets.

0:48:48That's like super old school.

0:48:50Like I remember doing that back in the day with like Twitterific and Tweetie or

0:48:54whatever, when they wouldn't save where you were and you just keep going back

0:48:57until you recognize something.

0:48:59Yeah. And that, like for years I thought, oh, I will never be able to do that

0:49:04again. But then I realized, you know, if I don't want to spend as much time on

0:49:09Twitter as I used to, scrolling all the way to the top and then going backwards

0:49:12is a pretty good method of you can see the latest stuff so you can see the

0:49:17latest things that people are talking about and if you want you can also reply

0:49:23to people but I think it's better if you're replying to a tweet that was sent

0:49:27one hour ago instead of 19 hours. I guess one of the things that's better now than

0:49:32it used to be is like if somebody's having a conversation or whatever you

0:49:37You don't see it in reverse because Twitter brings it all up together, right?

0:49:40Yes, and that's actually great because it's a great way to see conversations that started

0:49:45like many, many hours ago, but now you can see the fresh context, like the latest replies

0:49:51to a conversation, which works really well for me.

0:49:54So this change of behavior, scrolling backwards from top to bottom, I thought I would never

0:50:00be able to do that myself, but it's actually been working fine.

0:50:04The third option, which is the more nuclear one, that I also thought, well, I will never

0:50:10do this because I'm not that kind of person, but it turns out that I am, is I switch from

0:50:17latest to home.

0:50:19So instead of chronological timeline to the algorithmic timeline.

0:50:23I maintain that Twitter's algorithm is good enough that they are always right.

0:50:29I always want to see what they put at the top.

0:50:31Exactly.

0:50:32If I'm super behind on Twitter, like for example this past week where I've been writing for

0:50:38like seven hours a day and I just, I don't open Twitter because I gotta be concentrated

0:50:43on writing, I open Twitter, switch from latest to home, and sure enough I've seen interesting

0:50:51things that belong to my kind of sphere of interests.

0:50:57Like you know...

0:50:58I do wish that that toggle was an actual toggle though.

0:51:00Yeah, it's kind of clunky to switch.

0:51:02Because it just changes. Just like randomly, on its own, it decided it wanted to change

0:51:08me to be home now rather than... you know what I mean?

0:51:12Mine now is sticking to latest because I think it learns from your habits after a while.

0:51:17Now mine is always latest by default. But yeah, the home timeline, the algorithmic one...

0:51:25I sense a challenge here. I think I'm going to give it a go.

0:51:29And also, like, I wrote about this years ago, and I think it's still true. Once you get...

0:51:36So if the Twitter app works for you, if you get used to the features of the official client,

0:51:42it's gonna be real hard to go back to third-party clients. And I love third-party clients, right?

0:51:47But the conversation view, the notifications for all kinds of things you want to see, the

0:51:53complete search that allows you to search for tweets that go back like years ago.

0:51:58And stuff like polls. Polls and the excellent image support, GIFs and videos, you know,

0:52:06all this kind of stuff that is native to Twitter. I gave up on trying to use the third-party

0:52:14clients months ago and the chronological timeline makes it work for me. Sure, the iPad app is

0:52:21not great, but also, you know, I want to spend less time, especially on the iPad.

0:52:27A lot of the things that made third-party apps good, they lost their advantage when

0:52:32the API stuff changed. Like, the multi-column views and stuff are just less useful when

0:52:38the notification streaming API went away. Right, like we spoke about that at the time.

0:52:43I used Tweetbot in one column view on the iPad.

0:52:46And so using the timeline this way and my method that I actually wrote about on MacStories

0:52:55to see a unified view for mentions and quote tweets and people who use my name in a single

0:53:05like a saved search.

0:53:07I wrote about it on MacStories a couple of months ago.

0:53:10That works totally fine.

0:53:11so I can have a unified mentions view like in Tweetbot, which is great.

0:53:17So yeah, this was just an aside to say that yes, I agree with you, the overcast video

0:53:23clips are perfect for Twitter.

0:53:25I am gonna take the Federico challenge that you didn't give me.

0:53:33And I've moved Twitter to my dock on my iPhone and I'll do the same on my iPad and I'll try

0:53:39it over the next week and we'll report back on next week's episode. Stephen are you willing

0:53:43to take this challenge? He's not on Twitter, why would he take it? He's sometimes on it.

0:53:48Would I take your silence as a no on that one? Raid your silence. I'll do it. I'm not

0:53:52on Twitter much but I'll do it. Yeah but like you could try it for a day and bail but like

0:53:57then you can at least say why it didn't work for you. But then you would win and you get

0:54:00smug when you win so. There's no winning! There's no winning state about this. Can we

0:54:05- Can we bet on it?

0:54:06- Why?

0:54:07- What are we betting?

0:54:08What is everything?

0:54:09(laughing)

0:54:10What is the bet?

0:54:11What's the bet?

0:54:11- Who wants to score everything we do?

0:54:13- I know.

0:54:14- Okay, back to overcast.

0:54:16There is a little bit of a issue.

0:54:19So you go in, you create your clip,

0:54:22you have a lot of options.

0:54:23You want vertical video, horizontal, square,

0:54:25so you can think about where you're gonna share it.

0:54:27You can kinda make some adjustments on some badging on it.

0:54:32But then if you say that you wanna share the video

0:54:34and the link, that's kind of a two-step process

0:54:37because of some limitations in the share sheet.

0:54:42But Federico, you think there may be a workaround

0:54:45or is there a better way to do this?

0:54:47- It's not Marco's fault.

0:54:48So to give you the conclusion upfront,

0:54:53Marco wanted to share multiple items.

0:54:58They're called activity items because on iOS,

0:55:02The share sheet is governed by the UI activity API.

0:55:06So Marco wanted to share multiple activity items

0:55:08at the same time.

0:55:10So both a link and a video file, which in theory

0:55:14is possible on iOS.

0:55:16But what he discovered is that so many third party apps

0:55:21don't do a good job at accepting multiple items shared

0:55:26behind the scenes from one app to another via the share sheet.

0:55:31So I did some research because I remembered writing about this.

0:55:36And in fact, in my iOS 9 review, I

0:55:39noted that Apple made some improvements around how

0:55:45third-party apps can show up in the share sheet

0:55:48if they support at least one of the items

0:55:52that one app is passing as activity items.

0:55:55So before iOS 9, let's say that Myke is a developer,

0:56:00and he create, let's say, what can you be a developer of this time?

0:56:04One, two, three Twitter Client.

0:56:06Myke is the developer of one, two, three...

0:56:08No, Twitter Client doesn't work.

0:56:10Myke is the developer of one, two, three Graphic Editor.

0:56:14And it's an app that lets you share images

0:56:18both as PDF versions and JPEGs.

0:56:23And so he implements the share sheet,

0:56:26and he shares both files with the share sheet.

0:56:29Before iOS 9, the extensions that you would see appear in the sharesheet were only for

0:56:36those apps that explicitly said to the system "we support both PDF and JPEG".

0:56:45But if you only supported one of the two, so either a PDF or a JPEG, you would not show

0:56:51up in the sharesheet at all, which was terrible in iOS 8.

0:56:55In iOS 9 Apple made this change saying, "Okay, even if you support just one of the multiple

0:57:01formats that are passed as activity items, you will appear in the sharesheet, and by

0:57:06default you will accept just the item that you support."

0:57:10Which is great because it allows a consistent experience of you see always the same apps

0:57:15in the sharesheet and all of that.

0:57:16The problem is that, again, as Marco noticed, so many developers don't do the work of saying,

0:57:23we can read multiple data items at the same time

0:57:28and accept those at the same time and share them.

0:57:32So you find yourself in the situation of Overcast

0:57:35is sharing both a link and a video.

0:57:37But then the extension that you pick,

0:57:41whether it's a Twitter client or an email client, whatever,

0:57:45only shows you the video, or maybe only shows you the link.

0:57:48- Which is arguably a worse experience

0:57:50because it is unknown, right?

0:57:52That's the problem.

0:57:53Yeah, it's unknown and less obvious.

0:57:55And so what Marco did, I think, is the right call

0:57:59until Apple provides some kind of better system, maybe.

0:58:04By default, I'm just going to share the video, because that's

0:58:06the most important part.

0:58:07It's the video clip.

0:58:09And then I'm going to put a button in the toolbar

0:58:12to copy the link to the episode.

0:58:13So the perfect workflow at this moment

0:58:16would be you copy the link to the clipboard,

0:58:19and then you share the video.

0:58:20You use whatever app or whatever extension you want

0:58:24to insert the video clip,

0:58:26and then you manually paste the link

0:58:28that you've copied to the clipboard.

0:58:30Which is, I think, is, again, that's the right call.

0:58:34Ideally, there should be some changes

0:58:37around how the share sheet

0:58:38and the activity API stuff works.

0:58:41I kinda wish that Marco shipped the option

0:58:48maybe as an advanced feature,

0:58:50Because I would have had fun scripting that with shortcuts.

0:58:54That would have been something to deal with the video

0:58:57and the link at the same time.

0:58:59Would have been fun.

0:59:00So maybe there could be like a secret gesture

0:59:03or a secret keyboard shortcut like the Konami code

0:59:07that lets you share both video and link at the same time.

0:59:10- That is a convoluted way to share something.

0:59:13Right, up, down, up, down.

0:59:15- To be fair though, how many people use Overcast on an iPad

0:59:18with a smart keyboard attached.

0:59:20That could be a Konami code that nobody knows about, just me.

0:59:23And I could be, I would be able to share with shortcuts.

0:59:26- No, let's go to the Tichi code.

0:59:28- The Tichi code.

0:59:29- What is the Tichi keyboard shortcut?

0:59:31- It's the, all right, the Tichi code would be

0:59:35the hex color code of the Italian flag.

0:59:38- That feels like a lot of characters.

0:59:40- That's a, pretty long.

0:59:43- Well, you gotta commit to the secret code,

0:59:46if you wanna have a secret code.

0:59:48What is that? What is it? Can someone believe that? I want to know what it is now.

0:59:53I have no idea, honestly.

0:59:55Please tweet at us.

0:59:57Yeah, I want the whole thing.

0:59:59Myke will see it in the official app in two days.

1:00:01Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Something like that.

1:00:04Cool. Yeah, I think it's an awesome feature. It's so good.

1:00:07Having spoken about this on upgrade as well, like, it's been fun over the last few days

1:00:13because it's been encouraging people to send clips to me and Jason, which is amazing,

1:00:17of the things they liked about the episode. And it is wild to me that like 90% of the clips that

1:00:22we've seen have been about the same thing, which is just this one little joke that we made about

1:00:27lasers. And that is not what I would have expected people would have clipped, even as what we and me

1:00:32and Jason thought was the funniest moment of the episode. But so it's considering like, I think a

1:00:37lot of the time I feel like I work in a vacuum. Like, I make things and I release them. But you

1:00:43You don't really know particularly what people enjoy.

1:00:46You hear about... people say they liked the episode quite a lot or they will say they

1:00:52want to talk about a specific thing, good or bad.

1:00:56It is super nice to be able to see what people are clipping and sharing about a specific

1:01:02thing.

1:01:03And this isn't just my own shows.

1:01:04I have been really enjoying looking at people who I follow online share clips from their

1:01:09favorite podcasts, you know, like I've seen a lot of hypercritical clips and

1:01:12You Look Nice Today clips and Dubai Friday clips and stuff like that. And I

1:01:16think it's really fun because I listen to all those shows so I press it and I'm like

1:01:19"Oh I remember that moment, that was brilliant." So I encourage, there's also been some

1:01:24weird fish clips of course, not like the PHISH, our Federico's weird fish.

1:01:29Oh no, fish are weird, the band Fish, but they were talking about...

1:01:33Yeah, but that's, that was just wasn't what I was, you know, we were talking about Marco and I

1:01:37figured it might confuse people. But so I, you know, I'm sure we all do

1:01:40encourage you to, if you ever find something you enjoy about our show,

1:01:44share that clip. And if you want to please tag us in it because I like

1:01:49listening to it. Um, I think it helps. I think it helps. We have a courtesy of

1:01:55underscore in the chat room. We have the full code. Would you like me to read

1:01:59the code?

1:01:59Yes.

1:02:00Yes.

1:02:01#118336 #FFFFFFF #C0162A

1:02:09That is the full Federico code.

1:02:12I feel like he should be an Italian as well.

1:02:13Hang on a second. Real-time follow-up, real-time follow-up.

1:02:17So what Underscore got is I'm sure is just like the hex codes of green and white and red.

1:02:24But there's an official one.

1:02:26Kate has found via Wikipedia an official specified by law hex code for the Italian flag, which is

1:02:35completely different, which is #008C45, #F4, F5, F0, #CD212A. That is the official,

1:02:46as specified by law, hexadecimal code for the trickle law.

1:02:51So it's not quite pure white. You got a little, little fanciness in there.

1:02:56>> You put a little on it, you know, put a bit of mustard on that thing.

1:03:00>> Wow. Well, glad we got that sorted out on this.

1:03:05>> The more you know, we have laws that govern colors of flags.

1:03:11>> It's like branding guidelines. It's not a surprise. We have like hexadecimal codes

1:03:16for all of the real AFM stuff. I'm sure you do too, Federico. It's kind of like a flag.

1:03:20>> Yeah, well, Sylvia does. I have no idea what type of red.

1:03:24There is one, right? There is a hexadecimal code for the box store as well.

1:03:26There is one somewhere, yes.

1:03:28Yes.

1:03:29Are we done with this part now? I feel like we've covered the flag colors pretty well.

1:03:33Yeah, that was the most important part.

1:03:35We'll be proud of that. Okay. We have one final sponsor this week, and that is our friends over at Away.

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1:06:10I'm sorry to do this to you guys, but I feel like we have very important real

1:06:16time follow up on the matter of flags.

1:06:18Um, yeah, it's popping off in the chat room.

1:06:21They go wild in there about this.

1:06:23We should mention it.

1:06:24Uh, so underscore David Smith went on the, uh, he says seemingly

1:06:29official government website.

1:06:31And he has a point.

1:06:32It's not even HTTPS.

1:06:33I mean, come on.

1:06:34How expensive is an SSL certificate for the Italian government after all the taxes we

1:06:39pay? But anyway.

1:06:40Oh, there you go. Popping off now.

1:06:43Step back.

1:06:45So the government website uses a slight variation of the previous color. So this one will be

1:06:52009246FFFFF CE2B37. You know, very popular color scheme. But Kate noticed how on Wikipedia,

1:07:04In fact, they mention how the color that she discovered only applies to flags produced

1:07:11on polyester fabric bunting?

1:07:13Yeah, bunting is like flags.

1:07:17Like little flags.

1:07:18Why polyester though?

1:07:20What if I wanted to make a cotton Italian flag?

1:07:23Or a silk Italian flag?

1:07:25You would get arrested in Italy.

1:07:27You cannot have a cotton flag.

1:07:32It's against the law.

1:07:33You learn something new every day.

1:07:38I declined the cookies on your government website.

1:07:41I'm such a rebel.

1:07:42Yeah, you shouldn't trust those.

1:07:44I declined them.

1:07:46I have a lot of questions about this website, but we don't have time for them.

1:07:50Yeah, I have a lot of questions about the government, but we don't have time for that.

1:07:54Anyway.

1:07:55I do like, I don't know what this says, so hopefully this isn't something bad, but like

1:08:01Halfway down the page on the right hand side, there's a graph and it's like an

1:08:05arrow shooting out the top of the colors of the Italian flag.

1:08:09It's very exciting.

1:08:10It's a very exciting graphic.

1:08:12What does that say?

1:08:13Federico?

1:08:13Do you see it?

1:08:14Contrati these fill up.

1:08:17Oh yeah.

1:08:18That arrow is bull.

1:08:19So we had a pretty good show this week.

1:08:31What is the error signifying? Is it my growth and economy?

1:08:37Yes, but again, I would rather not talk about any of this.

1:08:42Okay, okay. Let's talk about something more exciting than government websites.

1:08:46RSS apps for the Mac.

1:08:48Oh, no, no, no. Why for the Mac? Why just Mac and iOS?

1:08:53Mac and iOS.

1:08:54Well, you can't do real RSS on an iPad.

1:08:58I mean, the app that we're going to talk about, I haven't tested it on a Mac at all.

1:09:02So if you if it translates to development contracts.

1:09:06Oh, my God.

1:09:07This sounds very it sounds very like like Sopranos like it's

1:09:13I'm done now. I'm done.

1:09:18Reader four, reader four.

1:09:20So here's some context.

1:09:23A bunch of people have been asking me and in my absence on Twitter, John Voorhis,

1:09:30why we didn't have a review of Reader 4 on Mac Stories.

1:09:35Reader 4 is a new version of the popular Reader with 2e by Swiss developer Silvio Rizzi.

1:09:43He launched a new version last week, I think, both on the Mac and iOS.

1:09:48The Mac version has been in public beta for a few months.

1:09:50the iOS version. I received the beta a few days before the public launch on the

1:09:55App Store, but we had no details about the public launch and because of the way

1:10:01that we operate with our reviews we do not like to rehash change logs and let

1:10:07them pass as quote-unquote "reviews". We actually want to use apps before we write

1:10:12about them, but we had, you know, we had no idea we should be writing about the

1:10:15app, so that's why we don't have a review. But I still decided to buy the app from

1:10:20the App Store and using myself and see what it would be like. And there's a

1:10:25there's a few really interesting things that I wanted to to talk about it. So I

1:10:31assume we're all familiar with Reader, either from the Mac or from the from iOS,

1:10:37right? Yeah it's been around forever. Yeah, all right. So this new version, one of the

1:10:43reasons that it took a long time to the point where a bunch of people were

1:10:47wondering whether the developer was still around and working on the app or not, is that he's been busy

1:10:52rewriting the foundation of the app to have a common code base between the Mac and the iOS version.

1:11:00But this is happening before

1:11:03Marzipan. - It's a curious decision.

1:11:06Exactly. So I'm wondering

1:11:09will this be a bunch of wasted work

1:11:12next month, essentially? So

1:11:16If the goal was to have a shared code base like at a very high level

1:11:20Would have been preferable to wait for Apple's solution and see what it would be like unless unless there is just some I mean

1:11:29I don't know who knows how apps work. Nobody knows

1:11:31Nobody knows nobody knows

1:11:34Underscore knows but there's only two people. It's just the two of them. They're the only people that know maybe there's like a bunch of stuff that

1:11:41He would have had to have done right like there's just like a bunch of things that the app is doing

1:11:46Yeah, but even then yeah, I don't know. I can't get my head around this one so much, but my question is

1:11:52So we have no idea if maybe there was like he only wanted to share some elements of his code

1:11:59And just it's not strictly about the UI

1:12:01I don't because I think about something like pcalc right which from talking to James

1:12:06I know that there's a lot of shared code between those two versions and pcalc's been around forever like the Mac and iOS version

1:12:14Right, but like I don't know how much of it here. I don't know who knows how this stuff works

1:12:18We've already been over that nobody does but my question is

1:12:21when

1:12:23Such as in this case the stated intention is to share the same code base

1:12:31across multiple platforms. I haven't seen much criticism of its decision to have essentially,

1:12:38you know, it looks like the same app experience on the iPad and the Mac from what I've seen.

1:12:42But when a developer says they're excited about Marzipan, for some people that's just like

1:12:50blasphemy, like saying something that is extremely bad. Is it just because it's an Apple technology,

1:12:58or is it because it's an extreme of that idea?

1:13:01Because developers are already doing this.

1:13:03They are already sharing code bases between apps.

1:13:06- Well, I think a lot of it is judging books by their covers.

1:13:11The reader for Mac doesn't look like an iOS app.

1:13:14Like, I'm looking at the page, right?

1:13:17The design, it still looks pretty Mac-like.

1:13:20It's very simple.

1:13:21It's like the more kind of standard Mac design of today, right?

1:13:25like the post iOS 7 of vacation of all applications, right? Like that flat look,

1:13:30but they do not look like the same application. And I'm running it and it feels, and this is a

1:13:37topic I want to get to, it feels very much like Reader 3. It doesn't feel like a lot has changed.

1:13:44And so maybe this code they're referring to is sort of like low level dealing with syncing,

1:13:49dealing with feed fetching, or, you know, that sort of stuff. And the UI code and sort of the

1:13:54the look and feel is all kind of the same as it was.

1:13:57Well, I think it's interesting how there's developers who are already, you know, sort

1:14:04of having this idea of let's just make one experience across platforms.

1:14:10It makes total sense.

1:14:11I mean, I think that's why Marzipan is coming now, because that's got to be the general

1:14:17consensus amongst a lot of companies of like, why do I still put all of this work into all

1:14:25of these separate versions of my applications?

1:14:27Why stuff like Electron exists, right?

1:14:29Because it's like, how much effort can we put into supporting every platform?

1:14:36And you know, Electron apps run on platforms where like, you know, like the Mac and Windows

1:14:41where it's like, it would be really beneficial for us because nobody's like mega excited,

1:14:45or like the general population is not mega excited about the application development

1:14:50on these platforms, right?

1:14:51Like it's smartphones now, right?

1:14:53And tablets that people seem to be excited about.

1:14:56So we'll just, we can do this.

1:14:58So let's just do this.

1:15:00And that's how stuff like electronics apps continue to proliferate, right?

1:15:03Because it's consolidating the amount of development that you have to do where you can.

1:15:08And so I figured like you see something like this and it's like, yeah, I would like to unify the work.

1:15:13the work so there's stuff that I don't have to continue duplicating and redoing over and

1:15:18over again.

1:15:19I can imagine it's got to get pretty tiring to every time you want to build a feature

1:15:24on one platform you have to find a different way to build it on the other platform.

1:15:29Which is why I think ultimately that Marzipan will be a good thing for these reasons.

1:15:33In theory as long as everything can be implemented in a tasteful way that works well it should

1:15:39make stuff easier for people, like to be able to offer multiple versions of

1:15:43applications on multiple platforms. I have an anecdote for you. So until a few

1:15:49years ago, by the end of the year, I used to do on Mac stories both the must-have

1:15:55iPad apps and the must-have iPhone apps as two separate stories. But then what

1:16:01happened, and this happened for like two years, maybe three years, is that I would

1:16:06write one of the articles first. But because so many of the, let's say, the iPad apps were

1:16:13also my must-haves on the iPhone, I found myself in this situation of having to rewrite

1:16:20the same section for the same app, but in a different way, because I already talked

1:16:25about it in the previous article. And so eventually I decided to just make one article, one story,

1:16:32about must-have iOS apps.

1:16:34- Especially as iPad app development slowed down as well.

1:16:37- Yeah, exactly. - Right over time.

1:16:39- So I just decided to do a single story

1:16:42where I could talk about all of the apps

1:16:44and do even more of them with a single effort.

1:16:49And so in a way, that's kinda like, I'm not a developer,

1:16:52but I can relate to the idea of why would you wanna

1:16:54do the same work twice in a slightly different way?

1:16:57So anyway, reader forward, there's a bunch of cool things

1:17:02that I want to mention and maybe suggest a few improvements.

1:17:05So the app is just as fluid and like,

1:17:10it's a pleasure to use

1:17:12and this has always been true for reader.

1:17:13The way that the animations and the gestures work,

1:17:17it's very well done.

1:17:19What I appreciate in this version,

1:17:21so it's kind of hard for me to tell exactly what's new.

1:17:24So this couple of things I actually noticed.

1:17:26There's better keyboard navigation on the iPad.

1:17:29So there's more keyboard shortcuts

1:17:31to navigate your unread items and open the browser

1:17:35and share items, mark them as read from the keyboard.

1:17:40So that's really well done.

1:17:41I wish that there was more keyboard control going on.

1:17:46I don't think the current keyboard shortcuts are not enough.

1:17:49You cannot control the entire app.

1:17:51So for example, you cannot use the arrow keys

1:17:54to switch between folders in the sidebar.

1:17:57Whereas I think there should be,

1:17:58like if you wanna do keyboard shortcuts, great,

1:18:00But you should also consider doing full-on keyboard

1:18:04navigation.

1:18:05And every screen and every element

1:18:08should be selectable and associated

1:18:10with a keyboard shortcut.

1:18:11These days, an iPad.

1:18:13So that could be improved.

1:18:15I really like the fact that there's now

1:18:18a full layout on the iPad matching what

1:18:22is possible on the Mac.

1:18:23So you can show three columns at once.

1:18:26You can have your sidebar, your article list,

1:18:29and the article view, all up on screen at the same time,

1:18:33which is great on the iPad Pro.

1:18:34So you can have three columns on the big iPad Pro,

1:18:38move between articles with the keyboard,

1:18:39it works really well.

1:18:40So, and again, I wish that more developers

1:18:45actually did this on the iPad,

1:18:47you know, use a three column layout.

1:18:50And I was actually in touch with a developer recently

1:18:53of one of the apps that I use a lot.

1:18:55I don't wanna call it out in case he doesn't want to.

1:18:58but I asked for this kind of column layout.

1:19:01And he mentioned how he was using the default

1:19:06split view control that Apple provides as an API

1:19:09for developers to have on the iPad,

1:19:11a sidebar and a content view on the right.

1:19:14And he mentioned how he would like to do

1:19:16a more custom Mac-like layout on iPad,

1:19:19like multiple columns, multiple content areas,

1:19:24But that will require a custom implementation right now.

1:19:28And he mentioned something really interesting

1:19:31that maybe Marzipan, because of the way that--

1:19:36the idea of bringing iPad apps to the Mac.

1:19:38And on the Mac, it is very common

1:19:39to have at least three columns.

1:19:42You have a sidebar, you have an item list,

1:19:44and you have an item view.

1:19:45That is very common for a Mac app.

1:19:47Maybe that will push Apple to say,

1:19:50we should also offer this type of layout

1:19:52as an API for iOS developers.

1:19:54So that was a really fascinating point.

1:19:56Maybe thanks to Marzipan, we will have that kind of influence

1:20:00back towards the iPad of if you want to bring this to the Mac,

1:20:04then you can also have this control, this API on the iPad,

1:20:07which would be nice.

1:20:10There are some other minor additions in Reader 4,

1:20:14better ways to have image previews.

1:20:17And this is something that I do not quite understand.

1:20:21There's a new built-in reading list feature

1:20:23that allows you to save articles for later,

1:20:29which is great, but you cannot save articles

1:20:32from other apps, it's just a reading list

1:20:35for things you discover in your RSS.

1:20:38And how's that different from storing some article

1:20:43from your RSS and finding it later?

1:20:47I think it would make so much more sense

1:20:49to have a Reader extension that lets you save any article,

1:20:52any link from Safari or Twitter or whatever.

1:20:56Instead, this is a built-in reading list for Reader,

1:20:59but it only applies to items

1:21:01that you save from Reader itself.

1:21:03So if you come across an article on Twitter

1:21:05or Safari or whatever, you cannot save it to Reader.

1:21:09So there should be an extension.

1:21:11- And there's support for ReadItLater services.

1:21:14You can hook up your Instapaper account to Reader,

1:21:17but it treats it like it's RSS articles,

1:21:20like the UI isn't personalized enough, I don't think,

1:21:24for that sort of content.

1:21:25And, like to your point,

1:21:27if there was a share extension for this,

1:21:29or you could send stuff to it,

1:21:31then I could like potentially get stuff

1:21:34from somewhere into my Instapaper account via Reader.

1:21:37Like, it feels like that side of things

1:21:39just isn't done enough for what I would want.

1:21:43- Yeah, so, and there's also support

1:21:47for bionic reading, which is not a feature for people listening to old mic shows, but

1:21:55it's a feature that sort of tries to make it easier to read text on the web more quickly.

1:22:07How?

1:22:08It makes the first few letters of a word bold.

1:22:15It makes the font bold of the first few letters of any word,

1:22:19which in theory allows you to scan words more quickly.

1:22:23I'm looking at the website and I can't read this paragraph.

1:22:26Yeah, it's a... let's just say opinionated.

1:22:31It makes it like I can only read one word at a time.

1:22:36It reminds me of the dyslexia font somehow.

1:22:40I don't know why.

1:22:41Well, I think the like the open dyslexia font, like

1:22:45I think it has a lot of like loops and stuff in some letters are thicker.

1:22:52So there's like a thickness difference in the letters.

1:22:55I think that's what it is.

1:22:57Yeah, I can't read this.

1:22:59It's this is upsetting to me.

1:23:01I'm sure it works for some people. Right.

1:23:03But that does not work for my brain.

1:23:05Not for me either.

1:23:05So, um, reader for, I, I, I kind of wonder if maybe, you know, these days there's no

1:23:12shortage of really good, uh, RSS clients on, on iOS.

1:23:16And I, and I have to wonder, people still use an RSS.

1:23:18Yes.

1:23:20Especially in this day and age of getting your news from social apps is terrible.

1:23:25Well, cause I was just thinking there's like, you know, more and more centralized

1:23:29services these days too, like Apple news or whatever.

1:23:32That I assume that's not overtaken.

1:23:35I mean, I don't use any of these types of apps. It's just if it's on Twitter or read it

1:23:38this is a bigger topic, but I feel like there's a there's a

1:23:41There's always gonna be a niche of people who prefer RSS because it's the idea of

1:23:46You're fully in control of the sources that you read. There's no algorithm. There's no

1:23:51Major company having some kind of vested interest in the kind of news that you see. It's your subscriptions

1:23:59it's your file in the sense of like you can export your subscriptions as an opml file,

1:24:06you can fully control everything here, and you're never gonna see stuff you don't wanna

1:24:11see from sources you don't care about.

1:24:12Yeah, you know this might be the issue with your Twitter experiment, that I get all my

1:24:17news from Twitter.

1:24:19So that might be... we'll see, that might be a bit trickier for me, I'll find out.

1:24:25But yeah, anyway, my main takeaway was I'm gonna use Reader for a while and see how it

1:24:30works, but I have to wonder if maybe these days apps like Fiery Feeds and Lear are maybe

1:24:37doing a bit more on iOS in terms of the features that they have and all the customizations

1:24:43that they have, the keyboard navigation, the drag and drop support.

1:24:47It feels like maybe Reader is still stuck in a bit in the past in an era of what iOS

1:24:54were like three years ago, four years ago, and especially Fivvy feeds, like all the options that

1:25:00you have like smart views and filters and custom share actions, that kind of stuff,

1:25:07it's hard to match. So we'll see how this experiment goes in using Reeder, but it's really

1:25:15beautiful and it's really smooth and fast and fluid, so I'll give you that. It's very nice

1:25:21looking and a pleasure to use. I think that about does it. If you want to

1:25:26find the links to stuff we spoke about this week you can head over to the

1:25:30website relay.fm/connected/241 links of course will also be in your

1:25:37podcast app you're listening to us in probably most of them do it the good

1:25:41ones do it. If you have follow-up or feedback you want to send us there is an

1:25:47email link in the sidebar of that web page or you can find us on Twitter.

1:25:52Myke is there as I M Y K E.

1:25:55Myke of course is the host of a lot of shows here at relay FM.

1:25:58You can check those out at relay.fm/shows.

1:26:02You can find Federico on Twitter, at least when he's done with this article

1:26:06at Vitici V I T I C C I and he is the editor in chief of max stories.net.

1:26:12You can find me on Twitter as ISMH and I write 512 pixels.net.

1:26:17I'd like to thank our sponsors this week hover

1:26:20Squarespace and away and until next week gentlemen say goodbye. I'll leave it at you cheerio adios