Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:07 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 240. Today's show is brought to you by Bombas,

00:00:13 ◼   ► Fresh Books and TextExpander. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Mr Federico Vittucci.

00:00:18 ◼   ► Hi Federico.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Hello Myke, how are you?

00:00:21 ◼   ► I'm very good. Steven didn't get the limerick he was looking for, so he's still not here.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Was that one of those riddles we were asking people to send to him, right?

00:00:29 ◼   ► He's still thinking about them, so that's why he's not on the show. He's trying to solve all of the riddles.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:35 ◼   ► So, you get to go first, Deimai. Are you happy that you can go first?

00:00:41 ◼   ► Well, no, no. I was introducing you, though, right? Like, that's the thing.

00:00:46 ◼   ► This is an even episode. This is a Federica Vitticcia episode. Do you want a better introduction?

00:00:50 ◼   ► No. Do you also want to reintroduce you, because I went first?

00:00:55 ◼   ► Oh, and I'm also joined by Myke Hurley. Hi Myke. Hi Myke.

00:01:00 ◼   ► By myself.

00:01:00 ◼   ► We have no follow up, but I wanted to give some like just points of information for our listeners.

00:01:10 ◼   ► This is a new thing on the show, points of information. They're both WWDC related.

00:01:16 ◼   ► One is an event that I think people should be looking into if they haven't already,

00:01:23 ◼   ► which is called Backstage at the Keynote, which is a WWDC Apple-themed escape room.

00:01:29 ◼   ► Now, Federico, do you know what escape rooms are?

00:01:34 ◼   ► No, honestly, I was asking you, I think I'm familiar with the idea that people

00:01:40 ◼   ► voluntarily lock themselves into a room as some kind of game.

00:01:44 ◼   ► I'm trying to understand why is that funny.

00:01:47 ◼   ► So you and a group go into a room, right, and there's a scene that is set up for you

00:01:52 ◼   ► as to why the door of the room that you're in is locked, right? Like there's like a fiction that is

00:01:56 ◼   ► created. And then there is a selection of puzzles in the room that if you solve all of the puzzles

00:02:02 ◼   ► you get clues and those clues will lead you to be able to do whatever it is to unlock the door,

00:02:08 ◼   ► whether you need a code for a keypad or you have to get a specific key which is locked in something

00:02:13 ◼   ► inside the room or something like that. So there's like a set of puzzles that you need to complete

00:02:18 ◼   ► as a way to be able to get out. Now, I've been to a conference a couple of times called the

00:02:23 ◼   ► All Conference that was in... And people pay for this?

00:02:26 ◼   ► Yes, it's a lot of fun. It's like a...

00:02:28 ◼   ► We have no shared references because like the references... Do you know what the Crystal Maze is?

00:02:34 ◼   ► What? Exactly. We have no shared references here, but it is effectively... It's like a video game in

00:02:40 ◼   ► real life. It's like... Can't you just play a video game?

00:02:43 ◼   ► You know that you know those games, the room where you have like that,

00:02:47 ◼   ► like the iOS game.

00:02:49 ◼   ► So you have to like do all these little things to unlock these little puzzles

00:02:51 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:02:52 ◼   ► It's kind of like that type of thing.

00:02:53 ◼   ► And yes, you can just play a video game, but this is an in-person experience

00:02:56 ◼   ► that you can experience with your friends.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Right. So anyway,

00:03:02 ◼   ► a couple of years ago, I completed a two separate

00:03:06 ◼   ► Apple themed escape rooms created by a friend of mine called Chadwick.

00:03:12 ◼   ► And this year he is bringing that to WWDC.

00:03:15 ◼   ► Now, I cannot believe there are still tickets available to this,

00:03:18 ◼   ► but it might be because people just don't know it's happening.

00:03:20 ◼   ► So I figured that I would let people know.

00:03:22 ◼   ► I think they're doing it at Alt.Conf.

00:03:25 ◼   ► It's EscapedKeynote.How, which is a great, just a great URL.

00:03:30 ◼   ► And I have a ticket.

00:03:32 ◼   ► I have a set of tickets.

00:03:34 ◼   ► I'm assigning one to Federico.

00:03:35 ◼   ► I'm going to make him do it with me so we can understand why it's fun.

00:03:37 ◼   ► It's really, really good fun.

00:03:41 ◼   ► just trust me on this one. If you're gonna be at WWDC, buy some tickets and go to do

00:03:46 ◼   ► the escape room.

00:03:48 ◼   ► Can you still get out, even if you don't solve the puzzles?

00:03:50 ◼   ► Yes, yes, yes. You're not literally locked in a room. Right? The door's just closed.

00:03:57 ◼   ► You gotta play within the fiction, you know?

00:04:01 ◼   ► This requires a lot of imagination, sounds like.

00:04:04 ◼   ► Yes, it does. But Chadwick paints very... he has incredible props, and he paints a good

00:04:11 ◼   ► picture, not literally, figurative pictures. I have had a ton of fun with this. I think

00:04:18 ◼   ► you are going to love this because I know the type of person you are and I think you

00:04:22 ◼   ► are the perfect type of person for an escape room. You just don't really have much of a

00:04:25 ◼   ► concept of what it is.

00:04:26 ◼   ► I just, yeah, I think I have a few friends who have done them. Like somebody a while

00:04:32 ◼   ► ago was talking about like a Legend of Zelda themed escape room.

00:04:36 ◼   ► Yes, they went on tour with that and I missed it which was really upsetting.

00:04:40 ◼   ► Yeah, okay, well, we'll try the Apple one and see what it's like.

00:04:44 ◼   ► This will be a topic on the show, I suppose, eventually.

00:04:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I want to talk about it, especially because we're 100% gonna win it, right?

00:04:51 ◼   ► I feel like that's just gonna be the way.

00:04:53 ◼   ► This also does remind me to mention, we still have an increasingly small selection of tickets left

00:04:58 ◼   ► for our WWDC live show. They are selling out, it will sell out, so get your ticket if you want it.

00:05:05 ◼   ► If you're gonna be in or around San Jose on June the 5th, you don't want to miss out on our show.

00:05:08 ◼   ► Federico has surprises apparently, which is a terrifying prospect.

00:05:12 ◼   ► It's all ready to go.

00:05:16 ◼   ► We only have a small amount of tickets left in the balcony,

00:05:20 ◼   ► so if you want to come, you should and you should get one and there will be a link

00:05:24 ◼   ► in the show notes to that so you can get a ticket for yourself.

00:05:28 ◼   ► Federico, on last week's episode you had just very very recently

00:05:32 ◼   ► to the episode beginning taken receipt of the new

00:05:36 ◼   ► 2018 iPad Pro bridge keyboard and so I expect you have been using it for the entire week

00:05:44 ◼   ► and I'm very keen to know your thoughts and feelings on this because I'm dying to get

00:05:50 ◼   ► one and I just want to know how good or bad it is.

00:05:54 ◼   ► So people have been asking me can you write an article on Mac stories about the bridge

00:05:59 ◼   ► keyboard and I should, I've just been busy working on this very long story that I'm preparing

00:06:05 ◼   ► for the near future and I've been using the bridge keyboard to write this story.

00:06:11 ◼   ► And I mostly, I think I can confirm my first impressions were mostly accurate I think.

00:06:17 ◼   ► The keys definitely feel different to me.

00:06:24 ◼   ► Coming from the first bridge keyboard, the one that I had with the old iPad Pro, the

00:06:29 ◼   ► The texture feels smooth and maybe the keys are a little more mushy, maybe, than the old one.

00:06:37 ◼   ► They're not bad, it's just a different feeling.

00:06:39 ◼   ► And they're not as clicky as the Magic Keyboard, I would say.

00:06:43 ◼   ► They're not as clicky as the Smart Keyboard.

00:06:45 ◼   ► They are softer.

00:06:47 ◼   ► And I think you can get used to it, I think it's fine.

00:06:51 ◼   ► I have discovered, thanks to somebody on YouTube, I think, and maybe even Peeking, which I never do,

00:07:01 ◼   ► at the instruction manual, I never look at these things, but for some reason I did this time,

00:07:06 ◼   ► that even though the bridge keyboard does not have a Siri key to invoke the assistant,

00:07:15 ◼   ► What you can do, for some reason, you're able to long press the lock key that normally activates the lock screen,

00:07:26 ◼   ► and that brings up Siri on the iPad.

00:07:28 ◼   ► So, on the Bridge keyboard, if you long press the lock key, which is in the top left corner next to the Home button key,

00:07:37 ◼   ► that will bring up Siri.

00:07:38 ◼   ► And also, even though this keyboard does not have a key to cycle through software keyboards that you have installed on your device,

00:07:48 ◼   ► like English, Italian, and I don't know, Yoink, you know, all these keyboards and custom keyboards,

00:07:54 ◼   ► it does not have the globe button that some keyboards do, but you can replicate that.

00:08:02 ◼   ► The bridge used to, didn't it?

00:08:04 ◼   ► I'm not sure.

00:08:05 ◼   ► I think it did. I think it did.

00:08:06 ◼   ► Well, it's not here anymore, but there's a keyboard shortcut, which I think, if I remember correctly, should be Ctrl+Shift+Space.

00:08:14 ◼   ► Or maybe... Yeah, I think it's Ctrl+Shift+Space. It's printed on the instruction manual, or the keyboard.

00:08:21 ◼   ► So, for some reason though, it cycles backwards, so it starts from the bottom and it goes all the way to the top.

00:08:27 ◼   ► Normally, the toggling between multiple keyboards should happen from the top to the bottom, but anyway...

00:08:33 ◼   ► But anyway, at least there's a way to show, you know, when you're typing with an external

00:08:39 ◼   ► keyboard, the software keyboard is hidden by default.

00:08:42 ◼   ► So there's a button at the top row.

00:08:43 ◼   ► I had no idea that that keyboard shortcut existed.

00:08:46 ◼   ► Yeah, me neither.

00:08:48 ◼   ► So we have a magic keyboard right now on my iPad, so it's not just a bridge thing.

00:08:52 ◼   ► And it works?

00:08:53 ◼   ► Oh, perfect.

00:08:54 ◼   ► Well, thanks to Bridge for printing it on the manual.

00:08:57 ◼   ► But now, why is this useful?

00:09:00 ◼   ► Well, if you keep a custom keyboard installed on your iPad, like for example, let's use Yoink, which is an excellent clipboard manager and shelf app.

00:09:09 ◼   ► Let's say that you want to switch from the normal English keyboard to the Yoink keyboard, which is of course a software keyboard.

00:09:17 ◼   ► So you're typing with the bridge keyboard, no software keyboard is shown on screen.

00:09:21 ◼   ► What you do is you press the physical key button in the keyboard, which is next to the

00:09:27 ◼   ► brightness one, that will pop up the software keyboard.

00:09:31 ◼   ► And then you start cycling through all of your installed keyboards until you reach Yoink.

00:09:36 ◼   ► Then when you're done with Yoink, you cycle back to the main Apple keyboard and you hide

00:09:40 ◼   ► the keyboard again by pressing the same button on the reached keyboard.

00:09:45 ◼   ► Works really nice, and if you use a custom keyboard it's really convenient.

00:09:48 ◼   ► more than just custom keyboards if you want to get emoji.

00:09:51 ◼   ► Oh yeah, totally. If you want to get emoji, exactly.

00:09:54 ◼   ► Right, that's what I have always wanted those shortcuts for. And why I'm now pleased I know

00:09:59 ◼   ► how to do it with my Magic Keyboard too, because previously I would just have to long press

00:10:03 ◼   ► on the down arrow and wait for the keyboard to come up and then press the globe key. So

00:10:08 ◼   ► yeah, that's interesting.

00:10:09 ◼   ► Jason Snow is in the chat room and he's saying he has a Siri key on the bottom left corner

00:10:13 ◼   ► of his bridge keyboard.

00:10:15 ◼   ► It does not bring up Siri. It's a dictation key. It's not a Siri key.

00:10:23 ◼   ► So if I exit... Yeah, this is a dictation key. In fact, if you open Spotlight and press this key,

00:10:30 ◼   ► in theory it should open dictation. It does not open Siri for me.

00:10:35 ◼   ► That's interesting. I wonder what's going on here.

00:10:38 ◼   ► I'm trying this right now and...

00:10:41 ◼   ► Oh, now it brings up Siri. So this is interesting.

00:10:45 ◼   ► Okay, well I gotta look into this. So there's a Siri key.

00:10:49 ◼   ► Alright, but sometimes it opens dictation. This is weird.

00:10:53 ◼   ► I guess it depends on the context.

00:10:55 ◼   ► I guess it depends on the context. Maybe.

00:10:57 ◼   ► If you're writing text it makes most sense for it to be dictation? I don't know.

00:11:02 ◼   ► I don't know. Hmm.

00:11:03 ◼   ► Yeah, in any case you can also long press the key, the lock icon and the lock key and that will also work

00:11:10 ◼   ► for some reason.

00:11:12 ◼   ► I have experienced the occasional

00:11:16 ◼   ► Bluetooth weirdness

00:11:19 ◼   ► when typing, which is not really I guess it's not really a bridge thing because I have this problem with the

00:11:26 ◼   ► Logitech Slim Folio Pro as well and I do not have this problem with the smart keyboard because it uses the smart connector.

00:11:33 ◼   ► Sometimes when I'm typing, it's like occasionally the typing slows down and it needs to catch up.

00:11:41 ◼   ► So it slows down for a couple of seconds and then you see all the letters pop up on screen.

00:11:47 ◼   ► As far as Bluetooth bugs go, that's the least annoying.

00:11:51 ◼   ► It's exactly. I have not experienced any disconnections or any problems with pairing.

00:11:58 ◼   ► Just sometimes...

00:11:59 ◼   ► Or dropped keys. That was always the problem with the original bridge keyboards.

00:12:02 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, this is totally fine. No dropped keys. Everything is good. Just occasionally, you know, it

00:12:08 ◼   ► slows down for like a second and then it catches up again.

00:12:12 ◼   ► But that's totally fine, but it's something that I've noticed.

00:12:15 ◼   ► What else?

00:12:18 ◼   ► I haven't used the media mode yet, which would be that you flip the screen

00:12:24 ◼   ► so that it's not facing the keyboard, but it's facing outwards and

00:12:31 ◼   ► Bridge says this is great for watching movies or you know playing games or stuff like that

00:12:37 ◼   ► I just I've just been working and typing with this keyboard so I have not

00:12:41 ◼   ► Tested the media mode yet. It looks kind of ridiculous because you effectively have an iPad that is not facing the keyboard

00:12:47 ◼   ► It looks like you put it on the wrong way

00:12:49 ◼   ► But it can be used in that orientation if you so like but it's just not something that I've done myself

00:12:56 ◼   ► it is excellent for

00:13:00 ◼   ► traditional laptop usage. So put it on your lap, start typing.

00:13:04 ◼   ► This is classic bridge design. It's stable. It's sturdy. It doesn't move. The hinges are good.

00:13:11 ◼   ► It feels nice. It feels like a laptop, but it doesn't have a trackpad, which of course that's another discussion.

00:13:19 ◼   ► But yeah, I've been working with this keyboard in my car, at the kitchen table, at my desk, on the sofa, in bed.

00:13:26 ◼   ► It's perfect.

00:13:27 ◼   ► So if you want to have a laptop experience with an iPad, this was true with the bridge keyboard before,

00:13:33 ◼   ► it is true with this bridge keyboard now, it works great on your lap.

00:13:36 ◼   ► It is easy enough to remove the iPad from the very small hinges that attach to the the clip on to the bezels of the iPad.

00:13:47 ◼   ► You can just, you know, hold the keyboard down with one hand and pull the iPad up with another hand.

00:13:54 ◼   ► Is it easier to do now that the clips are smaller?

00:13:57 ◼   ► No, I think it's mostly the... Maybe it is a bit easier.

00:14:00 ◼   ► I wouldn't want it to be too easy because that would mean it would probably fall out.

00:14:03 ◼   ► It's not too easy. It's not too easy.

00:14:05 ◼   ► But, but...

00:14:06 ◼   ► Do not lift the iPad and expect the keyboard to follow necessarily.

00:14:14 ◼   ► Like if you need to grab this keyboard from the table, do grab the keyboard.

00:14:20 ◼   ► That's very different.

00:14:21 ◼   ► Because I used to just pick up the iPad all the time and the keyboard would come with it.

00:14:25 ◼   ► I mean, look, this is not surprising because the clips are so small now because the bezels, right?

00:14:32 ◼   ► But it's just something to remember to like...

00:14:35 ◼   ► Basically, I've got to pick it up how I pick up a laptop, which was not what I did with the old bridge.

00:14:40 ◼   ► The old bridge, I would just pick up the iPad and the keyboard would come with it.

00:14:43 ◼   ► But like, I would never pick up a laptop by the screen, right?

00:14:46 ◼   ► So like, I just have to pick it up by the base would be my assumption.

00:14:50 ◼   ► Yeah, I picked it up one time.

00:14:53 ◼   ► I don't even know why, from the screen, and the keyboard thought,

00:14:58 ◼   ► "You know, I'm not gonna follow you."

00:15:00 ◼   ► - And so... - "I'm good here."

00:15:01 ◼   ► "I'm good on the table, thank you."

00:15:03 ◼   ► So the keyboard very quickly dropped on the table,

00:15:07 ◼   ► and the dogs were really scared by that sound, and the iPad...

00:15:12 ◼   ► - That's a lot of metal. - ...remains in my hands.

00:15:14 ◼   ► - Okie dokie. - So that was fun.

00:15:17 ◼   ► So do not grab it from the iPad.

00:15:19 ◼   ► I also have the back cover that is completely optional.

00:15:26 ◼   ► It is... you can remove it. It's some kind of leather. I don't know if it's real leather.

00:15:33 ◼   ► I think it's probably pleather, like it's fake leather or whatever it is called.

00:15:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's synthetic leather. It's fine. It's got a bridge logo,

00:15:43 ◼   ► which apparently is the letter Y printed, sort of a...

00:15:49 ◼   ► what do you call it?

00:15:50 ◼   ► I think, isn't that like the...

00:15:52 ◼   ► isn't that how you draw a bridge?

00:15:54 ◼   ► Like, isn't that the symbol for a bridge in technology, like in electronics?

00:16:00 ◼   ► Is it?

00:16:03 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:16:04 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:16:04 ◼   ► I'm trying to help you.

00:16:05 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:16:07 ◼   ► This is one of those things where like Stephen would like, would be able to help us.

00:16:11 ◼   ► It's like, oh, that's like a thing, right?

00:16:13 ◼   ► But I don't know.

00:16:15 ◼   ► - I've been spending way too much time

00:16:19 ◼   ► obsessively trying to fit the precisely cut corners

00:16:24 ◼   ► of this leather cover around the shape of the clips.

00:16:29 ◼   ► So they have like an L-shape cut

00:16:35 ◼   ► to sort of try and fit the clips around the cover.

00:16:41 ◼   ► And the more that I try to adjust them to make sure that the cover is perfectly flush against the clips,

00:16:47 ◼   ► the more I move it on one side, then it changes on the other side.

00:16:51 ◼   ► So it's not a perfect match.

00:16:53 ◼   ► There's like a millimeter gap, which is really not a problem.

00:16:57 ◼   ► But it really bothers me visually speaking that I can see one millimeter of aluminum in the back of the device.

00:17:05 ◼   ► But yeah, I'm keeping this cover because of protection, I suppose.

00:17:09 ◼   ► I like not having the naked side of the iPad.

00:17:14 ◼   ► It protects it from scratches and stuff like that, which is good.

00:17:17 ◼   ► So overall, I guess your question at this point would be, is this the best keyboard

00:17:23 ◼   ► that you can buy with an iPad Pro?

00:17:25 ◼   ► Is this your favorite keyboard?

00:17:26 ◼   ► Is this the one?

00:17:27 ◼   ► So you would think I would say yes.

00:17:35 ◼   ► My only... it's a great keyboard and I think it's the one that I'm gonna keep using to write all my stories and to write the iOS review.

00:17:45 ◼   ► My only... not a concern, but thing that I've noticed is that I have been missing this Linffolio Pro this past week.

00:17:57 ◼   ► And I think what I've been missing is a few things about that keyboard.

00:18:04 ◼   ► The fact that there's not...

00:18:08 ◼   ► The iPad, when I'm using the Slim Folio Pro, the iPad is closer to my eyes.

00:18:14 ◼   ► Because the base, because the keyboard does not have that huge palm rest area that the bridge keyboard has.

00:18:22 ◼   ► Which is where a trackpad would normally go.

00:18:24 ◼   ► The iPad is a bit closer to me because with the Syncfolio Pro you just have a keyboard in front of you.

00:18:29 ◼   ► You don't have those 8 cm of blank keyboard area, but it's not really a keyboard.

00:18:40 ◼   ► The iPad is a bit closer to me. And the cover case also protects the pencil, which the Breach keyboard does not.

00:18:47 ◼   ► It doesn't have a flap that goes over the pencil.

00:18:50 ◼   ► And I don't know if I ever told you this, Myke, but are you familiar with the thing I've been doing with kickstands on all my iPad keyboards?

00:19:03 ◼   ► Have I ever shown you or told you about this? Alright, so all my keyboards.

00:19:11 ◼   ► So I have an Italian smart keyboard, a US smart keyboard, and the Celine Folio Pro.

00:19:16 ◼   ► and also a smart folio. So I have four different type of keyboards or covers that I tested with the iPad Pro.

00:19:23 ◼   ► This is a tip that somebody last year gave me on Twitter, and sorry that I, you know, I don't remember your name.

00:19:31 ◼   ► You know you are.

00:19:33 ◼   ► Spigen, are you familiar with Spigen, the accessory maker?

00:19:36 ◼   ► Oh, I think you've mentioned this. Yeah, go on, go on.

00:19:38 ◼   ► So they make a metal kickstand for smartphones, which is like a little kickstand.

00:19:45 ◼   ► It's like three centimeters that you attach with adhesive tape to the back of a phone and there's a little

00:19:53 ◼   ► steel foot that you you know you

00:19:57 ◼   ► Basically you you pull back and you can use a phone with the kickstand. Yeah

00:20:01 ◼   ► but what what I started doing last year is

00:20:06 ◼   ► I've been putting two of these metal kickstands on

00:20:13 ◼   ► the back of the smart keyboard and also the Slim Folio Pro so that when they're opened

00:20:20 ◼   ► they

00:20:22 ◼   ► create a touch mode.

00:20:24 ◼   ► So if I don't want to use the smart keyboard, I can flip open these kickstands and

00:20:30 ◼   ► they let me use the iPad in touch mode with the software keyboard at an angle. How does this work?

00:20:39 ◼   ► So I'm gonna send you pictures and I promise that I would write about this on Mac stories

00:20:45 ◼   ► but it's just I'm busy on another story at the moment and I really don't have time for this.

00:20:49 ◼   ► But basically I put it one on the right side, the other on the left side

00:20:54 ◼   ► so they are perpendicular to each other and

00:20:57 ◼   ► I

00:21:00 ◼   ► flip them open

00:21:01 ◼   ► then I fold the keyboard underneath and they create an angle like, I don't know,

00:21:07 ◼   ► 30 degree angle or something so that I can use the iPad in touch mode and they're actually stable, you know

00:21:13 ◼   ► But it's strong like you could tap the top of the iPad and it doesn't yes

00:21:17 ◼   ► It doesn't like poke a hole in the cover. No, it does not

00:21:21 ◼   ► Trust me. It's an amazing setup and I've been sticking

00:21:26 ◼   ► The thing is I've been buying these kickstands from Amazon US because they're not available in Italy

00:21:33 ◼   ► And so every few weeks I ordered a couple from Amazon and I have them shipped to Italy

00:21:37 ◼   ► I'm gonna try and send you pictures that maybe you can put in the show notes because it's a thing that you gotta visualize.

00:21:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I need to see this. Like, people need to see what you're doing here.

00:21:47 ◼   ► Yeah, and so yeah, with the Slim Folio Pro, I also put a couple of kickstands in the back of the cover,

00:21:54 ◼   ► so that when I'm tired of using the hardware keyboard, or if I just want to use touch for some reason, like playing a game or something,

00:22:02 ◼   ► I can just fold the cover, open the kickstands and use touch mode. And this is

00:22:09 ◼   ► of course not possible with the Breech keyboard because it doesn't fold

00:22:13 ◼   ► under the iPad, right? It's a laptop setup. So I've been kind of

00:22:18 ◼   ► missing that. But to answer your question...

00:22:23 ◼   ► Because they have different modes, right? Like they have what they call movie mode

00:22:28 ◼   ► where you kind of flip it around but that's not strong enough, it bounces around too much,

00:22:33 ◼   ► more than your speaker instead of...

00:22:34 ◼   ► Oh yeah, oh yeah, no, with the bridge keyboard, the media mode, you mean?

00:22:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:41 ◼   ► Yeah, no, don't try and type with that mode.

00:22:44 ◼   ► The iPad basically just bounces all the time.

00:22:47 ◼   ► It's merely meant for like looking at things only, not interacting.

00:22:50 ◼   ► Looking at things, yeah, yeah.

00:22:52 ◼   ► So, which iPad keyboard is in my future?

00:22:58 ◼   ► I think the bridge keyboard, if you do a lot of typing, and if you want to use the iPad as a laptop,

00:23:03 ◼   ► Right, it's the best straight keyboard.

00:23:06 ◼   ► Yes.

00:23:06 ◼   ► Yeah, okay.

00:23:07 ◼   ► Yes.

00:23:07 ◼   ► If you want to be a little more experimental and you want to have a smaller...

00:23:13 ◼   ► You want to have a keyboard that makes the iPad closer to your eyes,

00:23:18 ◼   ► because it doesn't waste space with an empty trackpad area.

00:23:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:23 ◼   ► And you want to have something that is more, a little more portable maybe,

00:23:25 ◼   ► because you know you can you can use it as a cover you can but yeah not really that much

00:23:30 ◼   ► I can't abide by the case that they make you put like it's just too much

00:23:33 ◼   ► The case of the Sling Foil Pro is extremely bad in the sense that removing the iPad from those rubber

00:23:40 ◼   ► angles those rubber corners that they have it's terrible like you gotta press and push on that

00:23:47 ◼   ► rubber to remove the iPad it's awful but I love the cover and the fact that it protects the pencil

00:23:55 ◼   ► and the fact that it supports the t.che. setup, which is what I'm gonna call with the kickstands.

00:24:01 ◼   ► So Logitech, if you're listening, I put two kickstands on the back of your unit.

00:24:09 ◼   ► I hope you won't mind.

00:24:10 ◼   ► I need to understand this kickstand thing. So we're gonna take a break.

00:24:14 ◼   ► You need to send me some pictures.

00:24:16 ◼   ► Oh my god, yes.

00:24:16 ◼   ► And we're gonna... I wanna... We need to talk about these kickstands,

00:24:19 ◼   ► because I need to see what this looks like.

00:24:21 ◼   ► All right, let me try and... Oh my god, how? Okay.

00:24:24 ◼   ► Just take just take some pictures.

00:24:26 ◼   ► You can do this. I believe in you.

00:24:27 ◼   ► Yes. OK.

00:24:28 ◼   ► All right. Today's episode is brought to you by FreshBooks.

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00:25:24 ◼   ► can also automate late payment email reminders too so you'll know that you don't have to

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00:25:33 ◼   ► FreshBooks is like a partner for you, they help you. That's what I love about FreshBooks,

00:25:38 ◼   ► they have tools and systems in place to help take away some of the frustrating parts of

00:25:44 ◼   ► to be a part of.

00:26:13 ◼   ► Alright, I sent you the pictures.

00:26:17 ◼   ► And are these pictures I can share with our audience?

00:26:21 ◼   ► Sure, you can put them in the chat room but

00:26:25 ◼   ► I'll try and send you a better one for the show notes.

00:26:29 ◼   ► Okay, alright, I see what's going on here.

00:26:33 ◼   ► Yeah? Okay. So you have two

00:26:37 ◼   ► kickstands in the back of the, that's the smart keyboard but it's

00:26:41 ◼   ► you the same setup with the Slim Folio Pro. You have two kickstands in the

00:26:45 ◼   ► bottom of the smart keyboard. You open them, you fold the keyboard underneath and

00:26:51 ◼   ► you have the iPad in touch mode at an angle. And it works because when you fold

00:26:57 ◼   ► the keyboard iOS automatically engages the software keyboard again.

00:27:04 ◼   ► They look small but it's very stable. I've been using this in touch mode for

00:27:09 ◼   ► months and it's totally awesome. So that would be the teaching setup.

00:27:15 ◼   ► So this is how you have it set up on the smart keyboard, right?

00:27:19 ◼   ► Yes, it's the same on the Slim Folio Pro.

00:27:21 ◼   ► OK. I'll make sure that there's images in the show notes so people can go and look at

00:27:26 ◼   ► this. It'll also be chapter artwork if you use an app that shows the chapter artwork.

00:27:31 ◼   ► I'll put that in there.

00:27:33 ◼   ► You can actually use these pictures and they're not terrible. So you can use these pictures.

00:27:37 ◼   ► I will do that.

00:27:38 ◼   ► Wow, look at this.

00:27:39 ◼   ► I'm gonna say though, it looks super precarious.

00:27:44 ◼   ► - It's not really.

00:27:47 ◼   ► Because they, you know, if you,

00:27:51 ◼   ► I did of course multiple tests before

00:27:55 ◼   ► actually attaching them to the iPad

00:27:57 ◼   ► and they never close accidentally for me.

00:28:01 ◼   ► Now, I don't know if you actually try and stab the iPad

00:28:05 ◼   ► instead of typing like a normal person,

00:28:07 ◼   ► they probably would break.

00:28:09 ◼   ► But honestly, just typing in touch mode,

00:28:11 ◼   ► sending a few tweets,

00:28:13 ◼   ► writing a link post on Mac stories, totally fine.

00:28:17 ◼   ► - So like you would use these to just whatever,

00:28:19 ◼   ► like you just don't wanna use,

00:28:21 ◼   ► you just don't wanna have the keyboard

00:28:22 ◼   ► in front of you anymore.

00:28:23 ◼   ► And you just like poking around.

00:28:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:28:26 ◼   ► Matthew is asking in the chat room,

00:28:28 ◼   ► does it dent the case?

00:28:30 ◼   ► So I use this on the,

00:28:33 ◼   ► on the Italian Smart Keyboard that I had for three months maybe before moving to a US Smart Keyboard.

00:28:44 ◼   ► I can see that there's a very small dent in the case.

00:28:50 ◼   ► So if that's a problem for you, this is going to happen.

00:28:54 ◼   ► I'm not sure how you can mitigate the issue, maybe by having stickers or some other kind of protection

00:29:01 ◼   ► where the kickstand is attached, I can notice a small dent in the cover of my smart keyboard,

00:29:11 ◼   ► but it's really small and it's really not an issue, honestly. And let me look on this US one.

00:29:18 ◼   ► So these kickstands, how do you get them to level? Do you just extend them to the maximum each time?

00:29:31 ◼   ► Is the iPad not like misleveled? Because it's two independent things that you have to extend, right?

00:29:36 ◼   ► Yeah, but you attach them so that they are at the same level, in the sense that they are perpendicular to each other.

00:29:46 ◼   ► Well, that takes some time to set up.

00:29:47 ◼   ► No, not really. Not really.

00:29:51 ◼   ► I put the iPad flat on a desk and I just put them roughly at the same height.

00:30:00 ◼   ► I think I use the measuring tape to make sure they were at the same distance on both sides

00:30:05 ◼   ► so that it's actually quite precise.

00:30:09 ◼   ► Very nice Federico.

00:30:12 ◼   ► Yeah look it's a life hack, it's not perfect. Ideally there should be a built-in

00:30:19 ◼   ► mode for this maybe but it works and I'm not particularly bothered by the small

00:30:28 ◼   ► sign that is left on my Smart Keyboard. The US one actually has no signs, so

00:30:35 ◼   ► it looks pristine even though I've been using the kickstands a bunch. But yeah, it's not perfect,

00:30:43 ◼   ► but it solves a problem that I have with the Smart Keyboard, which is it's great for typing with a

00:30:50 ◼   ► physical keyboard, but if I just want to switch modes and I don't want to switch covers, because

00:30:56 ◼   ► an answer could be, well, just remove the smart keyboard and put on the smart folio, which is

00:31:01 ◼   ► basically the same thing but without a keyboard and with a touch mode. But I don't want to switch

00:31:07 ◼   ► covers all the time, and so it's a way to have both touch mode with an angle and physical keyboard

00:31:14 ◼   ► mode in the same accessory, which works okay. And they're cheap and they're very solid, so

00:31:21 ◼   ► you can get them from amazon but not immediately no what a life hack

00:31:28 ◼   ► yeah all right so back onto more serious subjects

00:31:33 ◼   ► uh there was gamey rambo continued to spread more and more information last

00:31:38 ◼   ► week after his his week of of leaking from

00:31:42 ◼   ► wherever the information that he got was from about stuff in ios 13

00:31:46 ◼   ► Mac 1015 stuff in the Apple Watch, etc.

00:31:50 ◼   ► And there was one report talking about some iOS features coming to the Mac.

00:31:55 ◼   ► One of them was the possibility of a version of shortcuts to come to the Mac.

00:32:02 ◼   ► And so I want to hear what you have to say about this.

00:32:07 ◼   ► Okay. Of course I'm intrigued by this idea of bringing shortcuts to a...

00:32:19 ◼   ► maybe not a bigger audience, but a different audience.

00:32:23 ◼   ► And I've seen... there's a great article by Dr. Drang about what does this mean for the future of automation on macOS.

00:32:33 ◼   ► And to sum it up, he argues that what makes automation great on MacOS is the fact that you have complete communication between two layers of automation.

00:32:43 ◼   ► You have the Darwin and kernel stuff, so Bash, Python, Ruby, how you can have the scripting languages that perform scripting and automation at a very low level.

00:32:54 ◼   ► And then you have AppleScript and Automator and these other user-facing automation tools that can communicate with each other.

00:33:02 ◼   ► So AppleScript can communicate with Bash and Python,

00:33:04 ◼   ► and Python and Bash can also communicate

00:33:06 ◼   ► with AppleScript and Automator.

00:33:08 ◼   ► It's a two-way thing that's going on, which is great.

00:33:11 ◼   ► Now, where does Shortcuts fit into this?

00:33:14 ◼   ► And if you read the report from Rambo,

00:33:19 ◼   ► it's very light on details,

00:33:23 ◼   ► but he mentions Siri Shortcuts,

00:33:26 ◼   ► which is, when you hear me say Siri Shortcuts,

00:33:29 ◼   ► I do not mean the shortcuts app.

00:33:32 ◼   ► So Siri shortcuts are those little actions

00:33:35 ◼   ► that you can set up on iOS and give them a phrase,

00:33:37 ◼   ► and they represent actions or screens

00:33:41 ◼   ► that you can reopen in a third-party app.

00:33:43 ◼   ► And Rambo mentions there will be Siri shortcuts,

00:33:46 ◼   ► there will also be a shortcuts app,

00:33:48 ◼   ► but it doesn't go into these details of how

00:33:51 ◼   ► it will integrate with macOS

00:33:55 ◼   ► and it'll feel a bit different from shortcuts on iOS.

00:33:58 ◼   ► but it does mention how it may be possible that shortcuts on the Mac will only be compatible with third-party apps that have been written in Marzipan.

00:34:07 ◼   ► Now, I would be surprised...

00:34:11 ◼   ► So I want to sort of go over a few layers of this discussion, if that's okay with you, Myke.

00:34:17 ◼   ► I want to hear it.

00:34:19 ◼   ► I would be very surprised if shortcuts on the Mac does not offer any ties to

00:34:26 ◼   ► existing scripting

00:34:29 ◼   ► or tools or automation features of Mac OS.

00:34:33 ◼   ► Shortcuts on iOS already has a native action called "Run SSH script",

00:34:40 ◼   ► which yes, it is different from what we're talking about here. It's not bash. It's not Python. It's not AppleScript.

00:34:47 ◼   ► But there's a small precedent for having shortcuts run a script natively, but with an SSH session.

00:34:59 ◼   ► And it would not be unthinkable, I believe, to imagine how there may be a "run apple script" action,

00:35:08 ◼   ► or maybe a "run shell command" action in shortcuts for Mac.

00:35:12 ◼   ► for Mac and I think I would be very surprised if in the process of bringing

00:35:18 ◼   ► shortcuts over to the Mac the team does not consider this possibility of this is

00:35:24 ◼   ► not possible in the US but we have it on the Mac so why not and actually you know

00:35:29 ◼   ► if you really wanna be precise about this you can use the run SSH action to

00:35:36 ◼   ► run scripts on your Mac this is what I'm already doing with my Mac mini I have

00:35:42 ◼   ► the SSH action "run shell scripts" and perform and run Apple scripts using the

00:35:48 ◼   ► osascript command. This is all already possible, but you gotta enable SSH.

00:35:53 ◼   ► What we're arguing here is, should shortcuts for Mac have native AppleScript, native

00:35:59 ◼   ► Bash support, and all this kind of stuff? And I think it should, or at least it

00:36:02 ◼   ► should have some kind of bridge, some kind of tool that says you can execute

00:36:07 ◼   ► this command. Now the more interesting question for me is, consider how

00:36:12 ◼   ► Shortcuts works at the moment on iOS. You have native actions that you can run

00:36:19 ◼   ► inside of Shortcuts. These are your files actions or your web API actions, your

00:36:26 ◼   ► Apple Music actions, all these native frameworks. Then you have City Shortcuts,

00:36:32 ◼   ► which are these little steps that you can import from apps and they're either

00:36:39 ◼   ► they either show you stuff like they display some kind of visual preview or

00:36:45 ◼   ► they take you into a third-party app. Then you have the good old URL schemes

00:36:54 ◼   ► that you can either assemble by hand or are pre-packaged in shortcuts as visual

00:37:03 ◼   ► actions. But these actions, even though they look pretty and they look visual,

00:37:06 ◼   ► they actually simply launch a third-party app to perform an action or

00:37:14 ◼   ► to show you something. What Shortcuts on iOS does not have as of iOS 12 is a

00:37:21 ◼   ► native API for developers to have their apps become native actions of shortcuts.

00:37:30 ◼   ► There's no, let's call it workflow kit or let's call it shortcuts kit, call it

00:37:35 ◼   ► whatever you want, but there's no native framework for my curly developer of one,

00:37:41 ◼   ► two, three markdown to say, look I want to offer an action for my markdown

00:37:47 ◼   ► editor in shortcuts, but it's got to be a native action. Not something that

00:37:52 ◼   ► launches one, two, three markdown, but something that actually performs inside

00:37:57 ◼   ► of shortcuts, like the Apple Music actions do, like the Reminders actions

00:38:01 ◼   ► do. That's not possible. On the Mac though, automation with apps has always

00:38:09 ◼   ► been modeled around the idea of performing things in the

00:38:17 ◼   ► background. You can run scripts

00:38:24 ◼   ► from the shell, you can run Python scripts or you can keep an app window

00:38:31 ◼   ► open in the background, but to perform something you do not necessarily have to

00:38:37 ◼   ► launch it like an iOS. You don't see the dance of multiple apps opening on screen

00:38:43 ◼   ► like X-callback for example. So if Apple were to bring shortcuts to the Mac, can

00:38:51 ◼   ► you imagine a situation where it's basically X-callback URL all over

00:38:58 ◼   ► again? Like you want to have some drafts actions in shortcuts? Sure, it'll launch

00:39:04 ◼   ► the drafts app and put the window, you know, make it the front-most window and

00:39:10 ◼   ► and it'll be just like an iOS version of shortcuts.

00:39:14 ◼   ► Now that could be entirely possible,

00:39:16 ◼   ► that bringing automation to the Mac

00:39:20 ◼   ► means just launching third-party apps

00:39:23 ◼   ► and opening Windows and that kind of stuff.

00:39:26 ◼   ► But again, I would be really surprised if in iOS 13,

00:39:32 ◼   ► we do not get a proper,

00:39:35 ◼   ► fully customizable shortcuts API for developers to say,

00:39:40 ◼   ► It's time to move on from URL schemes

00:39:45 ◼   ► and these Siri shortcuts that they launched in iOS 12

00:39:48 ◼   ► didn't really allow us to build

00:39:51 ◼   ► meaningful automation features,

00:39:53 ◼   ► but now we can thanks to these proper shortcuts API

00:39:56 ◼   ► that Apple is opening up.

00:39:57 ◼   ► - Can you give me some examples in your mind

00:40:00 ◼   ► as to why it would be beneficial to have this API,

00:40:03 ◼   ► which is more than what currently exists?

00:40:05 ◼   ► - There's all kinds of possible use cases.

00:40:08 ◼   ► One that comes to mind,

00:40:10 ◼   ► Think of text editors and how drafts and Ulysses have actions that can create new documents from shortcuts.

00:40:20 ◼   ► But those actions, they require launching the app and sometimes they fail because they do not activate in the background.

00:40:29 ◼   ► They're basically just a fancy way to represent launching an app and have it perform a feature.

00:40:39 ◼   ► or try and think how OmniFocus and things,

00:40:44 ◼   ► they also offer actions in shortcuts

00:40:47 ◼   ► and they are customizable with parameters,

00:40:50 ◼   ► but at the end of the day,

00:40:51 ◼   ► they still have to launch OmniFocus and launch things

00:40:54 ◼   ► to perform those actions.

00:40:56 ◼   ► And compare this to how you can create notes

00:41:00 ◼   ► from shortcuts in the Apple Notes app

00:41:03 ◼   ► fully in the background, fully automated,

00:41:05 ◼   ► or how you can create a reminder from shortcuts, from the widget, from the extension, whatever.

00:41:12 ◼   ► Fully in the background, fully automated.

00:41:14 ◼   ► You don't have to launch reminders, just like you don't have to launch notes.

00:41:17 ◼   ► And so the idea would be rather than using your schemes, which are by design insecure,

00:41:24 ◼   ► because any website could, for example, embed a URL scheme that when tapped, you know,

00:41:35 ◼   ► you will see a dialog that says,

00:41:36 ◼   ► you wanna open this link in an app?

00:41:39 ◼   ► URL schemes are not great.

00:41:40 ◼   ► What is great is having a proper automation API

00:41:45 ◼   ► that has user permissions like the Apple apps do.

00:41:50 ◼   ► When you try to use reminders or Apple music

00:41:52 ◼   ► or notes with shortcuts, you get a fancy, very nice

00:41:55 ◼   ► permission prompt that says,

00:41:57 ◼   ► do you wanna use these features with shortcuts?

00:41:59 ◼   ► Which means you can control the privacy access in settings,

00:42:03 ◼   ► but which means you have greater freedom to automate these apps

00:42:08 ◼   ► without having to launch them, which means forget about Base64, for example.

00:42:15 ◼   ► Now you can create tasks in OmniFocus with attachments, with images,

00:42:21 ◼   ► without having to deal with Base64 and URL schemes.

00:42:25 ◼   ► It all just happens natively, which means it gets so much easier

00:42:29 ◼   ► for all kinds of users to say, here's a file variable,

00:42:34 ◼   ► here's a text variable,

00:42:35 ◼   ► make a task in OmniFocus with an attachment for me.

00:42:38 ◼   ► And it all just works.

00:42:39 ◼   ► - Sorry, so I guess one of the big differences,

00:42:41 ◼   ► 'cause I'm just trying to make sure that I understand

00:42:44 ◼   ► why this is more than what Siri shortcuts gave,

00:42:47 ◼   ► was that Siri shortcuts were very Siri focused.

00:42:51 ◼   ► So it was like input, output, via voice,

00:42:54 ◼   ► and then maybe a small piece of UI.

00:42:57 ◼   ► - And not even input.

00:42:58 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, but sometimes, right?

00:43:00 ◼   ► - Activation more than--

00:43:01 ◼   ► - There's something, right, there's something.

00:43:03 ◼   ► But the difference here would be if you were looking

00:43:06 ◼   ► at shortcuts API, removing Siri from it,

00:43:10 ◼   ► it's like giving developers the ability to build tools

00:43:13 ◼   ► that work like Apple's native shortcuts tools, right?

00:43:17 ◼   ► So like, this is a piece of functionality

00:43:20 ◼   ► that exists in my application.

00:43:21 ◼   ► You no longer need to open my application to trigger it.

00:43:24 ◼   ► Okay, cool, I just wanted to make sure I was following

00:43:26 ◼   ► 'cause that, I mean, that's the dream, right?

00:43:29 ◼   ► That I would be able to what?

00:43:30 ◼   ► Like I could say in shortcuts, like oh,

00:43:35 ◼   ► take a look at the, like oh, it's that time of day,

00:43:37 ◼   ► so just go move all of my projects,

00:43:40 ◼   ► all of my tasks in Todoist to tomorrow.

00:43:43 ◼   ► Like and I never, it's just all done for me, right?

00:43:45 ◼   ► Like I don't do anything, it takes all the tasks

00:43:48 ◼   ► and just moves them to tomorrow and that's it.

00:43:50 ◼   ► - No URL scheme, no web API, all just local, private

00:43:56 ◼   ► and automate it in the background for you.

00:43:58 ◼   ► - And I guess the reason that this comes back

00:44:01 ◼   ► to why we're talking about this now

00:44:03 ◼   ► with shortcuts for the Mac is that's the foundation

00:44:07 ◼   ► for why you would want to start replacing

00:44:10 ◼   ► the existing mechanism that exists on the Mac, right?

00:44:14 ◼   ► Like if you're gonna do this, because look,

00:44:17 ◼   ► I think everyone can see the writing on the wall here, right?

00:44:20 ◼   ► I mean, I understand why it's difficult for people,

00:44:24 ◼   ► especially if you rely on these tools.

00:44:26 ◼   ► But I think we can all see what's going on here, right?

00:44:28 ◼   ► We can all see what Marzipan is probably

00:44:31 ◼   ► gonna end up doing, good and bad.

00:44:34 ◼   ► And one of these things is to start to replace

00:44:37 ◼   ► a lot of the older core underlying things

00:44:39 ◼   ► that exist in the Mac that are maybe

00:44:41 ◼   ► a little bit esoteric for most people.

00:44:43 ◼   ► And for whatever reason, right or wrong,

00:44:45 ◼   ► Apple clearly believes in the shortcuts method

00:44:48 ◼   ► of automation because it put it in iOS,

00:44:50 ◼   ► so it believes in it, they gave it time on stage, right?

00:44:53 ◼   ► believe in it. So it might be the case of like, we want to start redoing what automation

00:44:59 ◼   ► means on all of our platforms and that means creating a new set of APIs that everyone can

00:45:05 ◼   ► hook into and it works across platforms and all that kind of stuff, right?

00:45:10 ◼   ► Yeah. Look, my argument is basically this. On the Mac, you have greater access to, let's

00:45:21 ◼   ► call it system automation. Things that you can do with core system

00:45:26 ◼   ► functionalities like the Finder or the Shell, these very core

00:45:31 ◼   ► frameworks and features of Mac OS that you don't have on iOS. But on iOS you

00:45:38 ◼   ► also have some kind of system automation with shortcuts. Things like opening

00:45:44 ◼   ► Safari tabs or changing the brightness of your device. Things that are related

00:45:50 ◼   ► to the system. And then you have app-based automation. So integrating

00:45:58 ◼   ► either with Apple apps, so reminders, notes, music, and third-party apps. And at

00:46:05 ◼   ► the moment on iOS the situation is Apple apps get all the benefits of native

00:46:11 ◼   ► shortcuts integration and third-party developers they are limited to URL

00:46:15 ◼   ► Schemes and Siri shortcuts. It's not exactly automation as much as it is

00:46:21 ◼   ► fancy launching of apps. It's what it is. Now if I were Apple and if I were in

00:46:29 ◼   ► the process of "alright I want to bring... I'm trying to think right... I want to

00:46:34 ◼   ► bring easier automation to the Mac because I mean let's face it

00:46:40 ◼   ► AppleScript and Automator, they're not exactly user-friendly, especially AppleScript.

00:46:47 ◼   ► You could make the case that there's an entire audience of iPad users,

00:46:57 ◼   ► college kids graduating to a MacBook. You use an iPad and now you

00:47:03 ◼   ► want to use a Mac because you're older, you want to have a more professional

00:47:06 ◼   ► tools so you buy a MacBook. So you're new to the Mac, maybe you already know

00:47:12 ◼   ► shortcuts from iOS, but now what do you do? You want to have some automation on

00:47:17 ◼   ► the Mac. Do you learn AppleScript? Do you try and use Automator? Do you learn

00:47:22 ◼   ► Python and Bash? No. You can make a case for Automator, but I feel

00:47:31 ◼   ► like whoever was trying to make that case, maybe Sal.

00:47:35 ◼   ► - It was Sal Seguin, you know who was trying

00:47:37 ◼   ► to make the case, there was one guy.

00:47:39 ◼   ► - The battle was obviously lost because Automator

00:47:42 ◼   ► hasn't received meaningful updates in years.

00:47:45 ◼   ► And so if you were to think of, all right,

00:47:47 ◼   ► what are all these people that,

00:47:50 ◼   ► is there a market for new Mac users

00:47:53 ◼   ► or even existing Mac users who never got

00:47:56 ◼   ► into automation before?

00:47:59 ◼   ► because they were put off by AppleScript and Automator.

00:48:03 ◼   ► Is there an easy, is there a better way

00:48:05 ◼   ► that we can send this, provide a more cohesive message

00:48:10 ◼   ► around you can make your tasks easier and faster

00:48:14 ◼   ► and more efficient with automation?

00:48:15 ◼   ► And there is an answer and there will be shortcuts.

00:48:18 ◼   ► Now, if you were to bring shortcuts to the Mac,

00:48:24 ◼   ► would you rather make it work in two different ways on iOS and macOS?

00:48:32 ◼   ► So would you say, all right, so on iOS we're gonna launch a Shortcuts API, we're gonna get rid of URL

00:48:38 ◼   ► schemes, we're gonna get rid of, you know, these simplistic series shortcuts, we're gonna have a

00:48:43 ◼   ► proper full-on Shortcuts API for third-party developers. But on the Mac though, we're still

00:48:50 ◼   ► gonna use Apple events and we're still gonna use Apple script and URL schemes?

00:48:57 ◼   ► Or would you say all right so if we're bringing shortcuts to the Mac and we're opening this

00:49:03 ◼   ► shortcuts API for developers I guess we gotta make sure that it works the same way everywhere

00:49:08 ◼   ► and the answer would be let's just make it work for marzipan apps. In these situations I think

00:49:18 ◼   ► the sort of an outcomes raiser problem would suggest that the easiest and most obvious

00:49:26 ◼   ► solution is the one that wins in the end. And so I tend to believe the part of the

00:49:32 ◼   ► 95-mic report that the shortcuts will work with marzipan apps. But I think that's in the context of

00:49:42 ◼   ► there will be a new shortcuts API for third-party developers that is supported on iOS and on macOS,

00:49:49 ◼   ► provided that you write your macOS app using this so far unnamed tool that we all refer to as Marzipan.

00:49:57 ◼   ► That would not surprise me at all. So you think that this stuff would be Marzipan apps only on the Mac?

00:50:04 ◼   ► Yes. But again, what I said a few minutes ago still stands. Should Apple offer some kind of basic compatibility mode for old apps or for AppleScript or for Apple Events?

00:50:21 ◼   ► I'm not sure the extent of what Apple could do,

00:50:26 ◼   ► but as far as third-party apps go,

00:50:31 ◼   ► I would not be surprised if it's just for Marzipan apps.

00:50:35 ◼   ► And so Apple could have,

00:50:38 ◼   ► this was one of the concerns

00:50:40 ◼   ► that Dr. Drang expressed in his article.

00:50:43 ◼   ► If Apple makes contacts or reminders on the Mac,

00:50:47 ◼   ► Marzipan apps, do I lose access to all my Apple scripts and all my automations that I have?

00:50:54 ◼   ► I feel like that type of stuff feels inevitable to me.

00:50:58 ◼   ► Yes. Yes, I agree.

00:51:00 ◼   ► Like I would expect over the next two or three years, every app that Apple makes moves,

00:51:05 ◼   ► like basic system app moves to Marzipan.

00:51:08 ◼   ► Yes. So I agree that there will be a rough and bumpy transition period for folks who use

00:51:16 ◼   ► automation with Apple apps that will become Marzipan apps with Mac OS 10.15.

00:51:23 ◼   ► But Apple could smooth out this transition by saying all your Apple scripts can now

00:51:32 ◼   ► become native shortcuts.

00:51:35 ◼   ► Right. And there's a I don't know how it'll look like.

00:51:39 ◼   ► You could go as far as say, oh, maybe Apple should have a sort of like a Rosetta system

00:51:45 ◼   ► to automatically translate AppleScript dictionaries

00:51:48 ◼   ► to shortcuts dictionaries.

00:51:49 ◼   ► - You could just straight up just have a AppleScript block

00:51:53 ◼   ► in shortcuts and it would do it.

00:51:55 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:51:56 ◼   ► - And it's only gonna work on the Mac,

00:51:57 ◼   ► which is perfectly fine, right?

00:51:58 ◼   ► And it's just like, that will do it, right?

00:52:00 ◼   ► And then over time, hoping that people might start adopting

00:52:04 ◼   ► the native tools that they bring about,

00:52:06 ◼   ► but like, it's just like, look, we're moving it to this.

00:52:08 ◼   ► If you run this, we'll make it work, right?

00:52:11 ◼   ► Like, don't worry about it.

00:52:13 ◼   ► Or maybe there's a way to say we made contacts and marzipan app,

00:52:18 ◼   ► and now you can use the shortcuts API that we have in contacts and that we have reminders.

00:52:25 ◼   ► But for the time being, you can still access the AppleScript dictionary of contacts and reminders.

00:52:31 ◼   ► Again, to smooth out this transition period.

00:52:34 ◼   ► And I think last year, Steve Tratt and Smith showed how it is technically possible with marzipan

00:52:41 ◼   ► to embed AppleScript dictionary support in a Marzipan app.

00:52:44 ◼   ► So Apple could also say that.

00:52:46 ◼   ► And I also wanted to point out how,

00:52:49 ◼   ► I've gotten a few responses and comments from people who say,

00:52:54 ◼   ► "Why would you want shortcuts on the Mac

00:52:57 ◼   ► "while Automator is so much more powerful?"

00:53:00 ◼   ► And it depends, I think, on your definition of powerful.

00:53:03 ◼   ► Because Automator, if all you care about

00:53:06 ◼   ► is running shell commands,

00:53:08 ◼   ► and using those classic Mecco S10 automation features

00:53:13 ◼   ► that are still automator, then yes, it is more powerful.

00:53:18 ◼   ► But if you just look at what you can do with shortcuts,

00:53:21 ◼   ► with just a few drag and drops and just a few touches,

00:53:25 ◼   ► I mean, shortcuts has conditional blocks and repeat loops

00:53:30 ◼   ► and custom UIs that you can put together

00:53:35 ◼   ► with alerts and dialogs and menus.

00:53:37 ◼   ► None of this is available in Automator.

00:53:40 ◼   ► None of this.

00:53:41 ◼   ► - Frankly, it is much more accessible

00:53:42 ◼   ► to people that don't understand what they're doing.

00:53:45 ◼   ► I can understand shortcuts in a way

00:53:47 ◼   ► I was never able to understand Automator.

00:53:50 ◼   ► And like power is one thing,

00:53:54 ◼   ► accessibility is another thing, right?

00:53:56 ◼   ► Like people being able to learn something easily

00:53:58 ◼   ► without a lot of knowledge behind them,

00:54:02 ◼   ► that brings more power to more people.

00:54:06 ◼   ► And isn't that the most important thing, ultimately?

00:54:10 ◼   ► - Is it?

00:54:11 ◼   ► It's like, do you value power for power's sake,

00:54:14 ◼   ► or do you value power in the context of empowering people?

00:54:18 ◼   ► Which is a different thing, I think.

00:54:21 ◼   ► Do you just want to have the maximum power,

00:54:23 ◼   ► but it's like, do you want to build a car

00:54:25 ◼   ► that goes to 300 kilometers per hour,

00:54:28 ◼   ► but so very few pilots in the world can drive,

00:54:31 ◼   ► or do you want to have a very good and very accessible car

00:54:34 ◼   ► that most people can drive?

00:54:36 ◼   ► I don't want to get political here. He says, backing head first into this, it's like the

00:54:43 ◼   ► 1% idea, right? Like all the money being controlled by such a small amount of people. That's what

00:54:49 ◼   ► it reminds me of, right? Like, you can have all the power as long as you have the knowledge.

00:54:55 ◼   ► Well, that's not fair. I don't have the knowledge, but I want some of the power.

00:55:01 ◼   ► So to sum it up.

00:55:03 ◼   ► We really got off the rails there, didn't we?

00:55:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:07 ◼   ► But I think it was a good discussion.

00:55:09 ◼   ► In the context of

00:55:11 ◼   ► there's so many questions that are still

00:55:13 ◼   ► of course left unanswered

00:55:15 ◼   ► in terms of, as

00:55:17 ◼   ► Dr. Drang pointed out in his

00:55:19 ◼   ► post, which you really should go read because he raises

00:55:21 ◼   ► a few interesting points,

00:55:23 ◼   ► will shortcuts or Mac

00:55:25 ◼   ► be able to communicate

00:55:27 ◼   ► in a sort of a three-way

00:55:29 ◼   ► system with Darwin and the

00:55:31 ◼   ► AppleScript automator and shortcuts? And will Apple provide some kind of bridge

00:55:38 ◼   ► or some kind of compatibility layer for the shell and AppleScript in shortcuts?

00:55:44 ◼   ► And then we have the broader picture of what's in the cards for

00:55:52 ◼   ► shortcuts too at WWDC? And should Apple open up a proper shortcuts API for

00:55:59 ◼   ► third-party developers and my answer is yes and I've been saying this since my

00:56:03 ◼   ► iOS 12 review last year. There should be... it's time to move on from URL schemes

00:56:09 ◼   ► and Siri shortcuts were not meant for automation it is time to have the same

00:56:14 ◼   ► automation tools that Apple has for their own apps and make them available

00:56:18 ◼   ► through third-party developers. But if that's the case and if that it's also

00:56:25 ◼   ► coming to macOS. I believe it's very possible that it will be for

00:56:31 ◼   ► Marzipan apps only. Which brings us to the final question that we brought up

00:56:38 ◼   ► a few minutes ago of if this new kind of automation is for Marzipan apps only,

00:56:43 ◼   ► what happens to existing Apple apps that become Marzipan apps? So your contacts

00:56:51 ◼   ► and your reminders and mail, maybe?

00:56:55 ◼   ► Is mail too complex for Marzipan?

00:56:57 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:56:59 ◼   ► All these basic-- - Depends what they do

00:57:00 ◼   ► to iOS mail.

00:57:01 ◼   ► - Depends what they do, yes.

00:57:03 ◼   ► So what happens to automation for these existing Mac apps?

00:57:08 ◼   ► Will there be a one-to-one match

00:57:12 ◼   ► between AppleScript and Shortcuts API?

00:57:15 ◼   ► I sort of doubt it.

00:57:17 ◼   ► - You know, like you said that about complicated.

00:57:18 ◼   ► This is something that I keep coming back to,

00:57:20 ◼   ► I keep hearing people mention it.

00:57:22 ◼   ► Like, here's the here's my thinking on this, like the way that I come at this.

00:57:25 ◼   ► Nothing should be too complicated.

00:57:27 ◼   ► It is up to Apple to make it work.

00:57:29 ◼   ► They believe in this system.

00:57:31 ◼   ► They have to find a way to make mail comparable on both platforms.

00:57:36 ◼   ► And it be Marzipan based.

00:57:38 ◼   ► They just have to do it.

00:57:39 ◼   ► Whatever it takes over the next few years, they have to find a way.

00:57:43 ◼   ► I don't expect that they're going to be able to move all of these apps this year.

00:57:47 ◼   ► But over the multiple year rollout of this program, like this, this idea, this

00:57:51 ◼   ► platform, they should be able to get all of their apps running this way because

00:57:56 ◼   ► otherwise why do it, right?

00:57:58 ◼   ► If they can't stand at the front of this and be like, this is the way to make apps.

00:58:03 ◼   ► We believe in it so much.

00:58:04 ◼   ► We're going to make all of our apps this way, and we're going to keep the power of

00:58:06 ◼   ► them. Then what's the point?

00:58:08 ◼   ► Yeah. You know, like if we're 10 years down the line and mail is still made of app

00:58:15 ◼   ► then they're not doing their job properly.

00:58:18 ◼   ► If they are then gonna stand and say,

00:58:20 ◼   ► this is the new way to make apps,

00:58:21 ◼   ► which is what they will say, right?

00:58:23 ◼   ► Like over the next couple of years,

00:58:25 ◼   ► Apple is going to be telling everyone,

00:58:27 ◼   ► the way you should make apps for our platform

00:58:30 ◼   ► is by using this set of tools that we've created, right?

00:58:32 ◼   ► Like that's what they're gonna say.

00:58:33 ◼   ► No matter, like there will be a million edge cases,

00:58:36 ◼   ► it won't be good for this, it won't be good for that,

00:58:37 ◼   ► it's fine.

00:58:38 ◼   ► But Apple's not gonna say that, right?

00:58:39 ◼   ► Like the plan will be, you use your apps,

00:58:43 ◼   ► you make your apps using these tools that we've created and now they've won on all the platforms

00:58:47 ◼   ► so they need to do it too right and the idea of oh itunes is too complicated so they have to

00:58:54 ◼   ► break it up and make it dumb uh mail is too complicated and so either they're gonna remove

00:58:59 ◼   ► uh smart boxes or they're just never gonna bother or like safari is too complicated so we're gonna

00:59:04 ◼   ► have these two versions it needs to be one and it needs to be great on everything because otherwise

00:59:10 ◼   ► Otherwise, what's the point?

00:59:12 ◼   ► Yeah

00:59:15 ◼   ► Few final things I I do not believe that

00:59:18 ◼   ► Automator and Apple script are going away

00:59:21 ◼   ► Immediately. It's not a it. I don't think Apple likes to kill off these existing Mac features

00:59:29 ◼   ► Not when they don't need to and when they're just just gonna hurt people

00:59:33 ◼   ► Yeah, they can just phase them out over time and it'll be obvious and everybody will will adapt

00:59:40 ◼   ► And also a friend of the show and friend in real life, Jason Snell, is making a good point in the chat room

00:59:46 ◼   ► that Apple could offer some kind of bridge

00:59:49 ◼   ► to bring quick actions,

00:59:52 ◼   ► which is a feature of Michael S. Mojave in the Finder, and

00:59:55 ◼   ► sort of say you can have your quick actions in shortcuts and sort of it's a way to bridge old

01:00:01 ◼   ► automation with new automation, which I think is a really good point and I could see how these kinds of

01:00:08 ◼   ► little compatibility steps or like you mentioned Myke, run AppleScript as an action in shortcuts for Mac.

01:00:14 ◼   ► I could see how they may alleviate some of these problems that may arise during the transition,

01:00:21 ◼   ► you know, with Marzipan and all of that.

01:00:23 ◼   ► My main question is, and that's the one that I'm most curious about, is what happens to folks like Drang

01:00:30 ◼   ► that have existing AppleScripts that work with contacts and reminders?

01:00:34 ◼   ► What happens when those apps are no longer AppKit apps, but they are Marzipan apps?

01:00:39 ◼   ► Will they keep their existing AppleScript support or will they use something new?

01:00:43 ◼   ► So my question will be, really the question is, does Drang need to write new scripts? That's the question

01:00:49 ◼   ► we're all wondering because it represents, in that simple question, is a big problem of

01:00:55 ◼   ► how does Apple move from old automation to new automation with shortcuts? And so how much work does Dr. Drang, and people like Dr. Drang,

01:01:03 ◼   ► have to do to update their scripts and automations and workflows.

01:01:09 ◼   ► It's very interesting. I know that it's scary for Mac users. For me, there's all to gain here.

01:01:19 ◼   ► For folks like me, and I think you, Myke,

01:01:22 ◼   ► this is great because it means I can now translate all my iOS automations to Mac automations.

01:01:29 ◼   ► I've got no time for Automator, I've got no time for AppleScript, but I know how to use shortcuts.

01:01:34 ◼   ► And if shortcuts come to the Mac, now I can...

01:01:37 ◼   ► Imagine if all your iOS shortcuts could sync to the Mac and just work out of the box. Wouldn't that be great?

01:01:45 ◼   ► I would love to stop using the toggled Mac app.

01:01:48 ◼   ► Anything to stop using the toggled Mac app would be just a real blessing to me.

01:01:53 ◼   ► Whoo! Alright, let's take a break and then I

01:01:57 ◼   ► I need to talk about something quite sorrowful to me.

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01:03:50 ◼   ► week I decided that this week we would talk about the Samsung Galaxy Fold

01:03:56 ◼   ► because I have you know anything anyone's listen to me on this show and

01:04:02 ◼   ► on upgrade will know that I am like super interested in folding phones and

01:04:06 ◼   ► especially the Galaxy Fold the two the fold and the Huawei Mate X the fold was

01:04:14 ◼   ► the most interesting to me from a design perspective and the reason I want to

01:04:18 ◼   ► about it is like last week somebody initial impressions started coming out so there were

01:04:22 ◼   ► videos from people like Casey Neistat and MKBHD, D-Devone at the Verge, there were videos from

01:04:28 ◼   ► people at the Wall Street Journal, I think Jeffrey Fowler had videos there and they were like hey

01:04:33 ◼   ► come to our place right like what Apple does and spend some time with it and then you can make a

01:04:37 ◼   ► video about it so a bunch of videos came out people were intrigued by it there was a lot of surprise

01:04:44 ◼   ► about the device. People were recognising there was work to be done, but that the bones of an

01:04:51 ◼   ► interesting product were definitely there and it was more put together than people were imagining.

01:04:56 ◼   ► I'm so impressed when I look at how the software works, just from a basic perspective of the

01:05:03 ◼   ► multitasking. There are parts about the multitasking that they have better than Apple do,

01:05:07 ◼   ► that you can have a bunch of apps on screen at once and you can just resize them all and it's

01:05:12 ◼   ► great right and they don't have a lot of apps that use this because they need to integrate

01:05:17 ◼   ► with Samsung's API's and I can't imagine that there are a ton of developers on Android that

01:05:21 ◼   ► are like falling over themselves to support the Galaxy Fold but Samsung worked closely

01:05:26 ◼   ► with companies that were important for them to work with and they got a bunch of apps

01:05:29 ◼   ► working right so it's like okay this looks interesting and again I haven't used it I'm

01:05:34 ◼   ► sure it's janky in a million ways that iOS isn't but it's still intriguing and that was

01:05:39 ◼   ► kind of the way that people were talking about it of like you know and I liked

01:05:42 ◼   ► what D. De Bon had to say about this is like I am genuinely surprised because I

01:05:46 ◼   ► thought this was gonna be like a train wreck but it isn't. Reviewers then started

01:05:50 ◼   ► walking away with the devices and people tweeting about it you know and Samsung

01:05:54 ◼   ► was starting to send more units out to people that didn't get the first

01:05:57 ◼   ► impressions and it seemed like everyone that was getting them was like becoming

01:06:02 ◼   ► really drawn to this device you know like I was seeing a lot of people say

01:06:06 ◼   ► like this thing is very interesting right of like you've got this little

01:06:12 ◼   ► screen on the front which isn't that great but it's like a souped up lock

01:06:15 ◼   ► screen effectively and then you when you need to get something done you open it

01:06:19 ◼   ► up and you have this like big square device and this big square screen right

01:06:23 ◼   ► in front of you then all of a sudden devices started failing it was like I'm

01:06:31 ◼   ► I'm not sure whether it was something where a bunch of people knew that they'd broken

01:06:38 ◼   ► it but were too afraid to mention it or whether they were happening at the exact same time,

01:06:44 ◼   ► but it started with Dieter Bohn publishing on The Verge that a bump appeared under the

01:06:49 ◼   ► screen that ultimately killed his unit.

01:06:51 ◼   ► So like a little bump appeared under his screen kind of towards the middle and then that eventually

01:06:58 ◼   ► caused some lines in the display and then just killed the screen.

01:07:01 ◼   ► When he published that article both MKBHD and Mark Gurman showed that they had attempted to

01:07:08 ◼   ► remove what they thought was a screen protector and it destroyed the screen. So there's like a

01:07:13 ◼   ► little plastic covering that didn't go all the way to the edge for reasons that I will never

01:07:18 ◼   ► understand. But it didn't go all the way to the edge and people will try and pick it off as I 100%

01:07:25 ◼   ► would have if I was them and it destroyed the screen.

01:07:28 ◼   ► It was like it's an important part of the screen, it was like a protection part, you

01:07:31 ◼   ► pull it away and it breaks some of the other stuff, killed it.

01:07:34 ◼   ► So all of these people started talking about it.

01:07:37 ◼   ► Samsung recalled the broken phones, they clarified that the screen protector should not be removed

01:07:43 ◼   ► and they said they will make it clear to customers.

01:07:46 ◼   ► They said they would look into what happened to Dieter's phone.

01:07:49 ◼   ► There's been other phones now since I think I saw YouTuber MrMobile had a similar problem.

01:07:54 ◼   ► It was like a bump in your screen.

01:07:56 ◼   ► Killed it.

01:07:58 ◼   ► But Samsung was steadfast on not moving their release date.

01:08:01 ◼   ► Like, in their original PR release, they were like,

01:08:04 ◼   ► "Don't take the screen protector off.

01:08:06 ◼   ► We're going to look into what happened to the other one."

01:08:09 ◼   ► But the phone's still coming out.

01:08:11 ◼   ► Then rumors started to circulate that Samsung would delay their launch in certain markets.

01:08:16 ◼   ► This then became everywhere.

01:08:18 ◼   ► As it stands right now today,

01:08:20 ◼   ► It is completely unknown what Samsung are planning to do with the Galaxy Fold, but you

01:08:27 ◼   ► can rest assured that they will do everything they literally can to release this product.

01:08:33 ◼   ► This is from the statement they gave.

01:08:36 ◼   ► We will take measures to strengthen the display protection.

01:08:38 ◼   ► We will also enhance the guidance on care and use of the display, including the protective

01:08:43 ◼   ► layer.

01:08:44 ◼   ► There is no timeline as to when this phone will be launching.

01:08:46 ◼   ► It was supposed to be coming out on Friday the 26th.

01:08:50 ◼   ► have pre-ordered and Samsung have contacted the pre-order customers and said that they'll

01:08:54 ◼   ► give them an update in two weeks about what's happening. Apparently Samsung have now also

01:09:00 ◼   ► recalled all review units. My expectation here is they want to get them out of the hands

01:09:08 ◼   ► of people before they break and they also want to probably have a do-over on all of

01:09:13 ◼   ► this. When they fix or if they fix or can provide a more strong experience that they

01:09:23 ◼   ► will want to do this all over again. Have people come in, take a look at it, assure

01:09:28 ◼   ► everyone, then send all the devices out, have them reviewed again. Unfortunately people

01:09:33 ◼   ► have already started publishing their reviews and there are still reviews to come of the

01:09:37 ◼   ► device which is fundamentally flawed. iFixit got their hands on one, which is really intriguing

01:09:44 ◼   ► to me. Somebody gave it to iFixit and iFixit just ripped it apart. They have identified

01:09:50 ◼   ► the following issues as potential reasons for why this screen has failed. OLED screens

01:09:56 ◼   ► in general are super fragile and they're more prone to complete failure than just a section

01:10:01 ◼   ► failing with regular LED screens. So like, if this was somehow able to be an LED screen,

01:10:07 ◼   ► Those little bumps may have just killed some pixels.

01:10:09 ◼   ► But on an OLED screen, if you do enough damage, it will kill the entire panel.

01:10:16 ◼   ► This is the issue with the screen protector.

01:10:22 ◼   ► If you pull it, which is what was happening, because it was glued really heavily down because

01:10:25 ◼   ► Samsung doesn't want it taken off, right?

01:10:26 ◼   ► It's part of the screen.

01:10:27 ◼   ► If you pull it and damage some of the OLED, you kill the screen.

01:10:31 ◼   ► That was what was killing them.

01:10:32 ◼   ► It wasn't that removing the screen protector was somehow electronically attached to the

01:10:38 ◼   ► phone, it was just that you would damage the OLED.

01:10:42 ◼   ► You were separating the OLED from the electronics and it would kill it.

01:10:46 ◼   ► The edges of the device are problematic as well because where the hinge is, there are

01:10:51 ◼   ► these two little gaps, the top and the bottom, where you can see it's not covered by the

01:10:58 ◼   ► case because they need to be able to close the thing.

01:11:01 ◼   ► doesn't have any kind of covering. If you remember from the Huawei Mate X, they had

01:11:05 ◼   ► this little rubber thing, which I hated the look of, but that is protection for the edges

01:11:10 ◼   ► of the screen. The Galaxy Fold did not have that. So that is some exposed edges where

01:11:15 ◼   ► you can hit the... where you're able to cause an impact, which can kill the screen. Or this

01:11:23 ◼   ► could be where debris is getting in, which is what definitely happened to D-Dabone. It

01:11:27 ◼   ► looks like some debris got in and they either got in through the hole at the bottom, which

01:11:31 ◼   ► is a 7mm gap which is completely unprotected or it's got in through the back of the hinge.

01:11:36 ◼   ► Now this is a problem because this is definitely going to happen and unless Samsung find a

01:11:41 ◼   ► way to cover that hinge a little bit more, makes me think of the butterfly keyboards

01:11:47 ◼   ► and MacBook Pros, debris is going to get in there and it's going to destroy the screen.

01:11:53 ◼   ► Because probably what's happening is, is debris is getting in and it's getting caught in the

01:11:56 ◼   ► gears it's it's being pressed against the screen and it's adding a separate

01:12:00 ◼   ► stuff it's basically making the the panel separate from the phone killing

01:12:04 ◼   ► the OLEDs this is where we are right now all right so as it stands no one knows

01:12:11 ◼   ► when this thing is coming out but we're I think everyone's assuming that it's

01:12:15 ◼   ► gonna come out somehow and it is so annoying to me that this happens that

01:12:24 ◼   ► this has happened. Samsung saying they let it happen is maybe a strong thing to say.

01:12:31 ◼   ► Like I saw some people say which is really interesting that they couldn't have done that

01:12:36 ◼   ► much real world testing with this because it would have ruined it. You couldn't have

01:12:41 ◼   ► taken this thing out into the world and do a ton of real world testing because everyone's

01:12:47 ◼   ► going to see it. So that might have been a problem for them as they may have been testing

01:12:52 ◼   ► it in too many controlled conditions. Which hindsight is 20/20 on this type of stuff.

01:12:57 ◼   ► I don't think you can necessarily point at them and be like "haha!" because this stuff

01:13:03 ◼   ► happens. The problem is, it's like the MacBook keyboards. So I can imagine a lot of people

01:13:09 ◼   ► like to look at something and be like "haha Samsung prototypes!" but Apple's keyboards

01:13:15 ◼   ► are still failing. They clearly did not do enough real world testing with those keyboards,

01:13:19 ◼   ► Otherwise the keyboards would be able to withstand dust and debris which they cannot so I think it's worth keeping that kind of stuff in mind

01:13:26 ◼   ► anyway

01:13:28 ◼   ► Samsung have one shot to make the first impression on this

01:13:31 ◼   ► They are the first company in the market with a foldable phone and they blew it

01:13:35 ◼   ► Right, like they needed to do this right and they didn't they failed

01:13:41 ◼   ► So like the first this has been like a big news story, right the first

01:13:46 ◼   ► company to get a product in theory to market. We're like a week away from it being sent

01:13:52 ◼   ► into market. People bought it. They made them. They were ready. And they blew it. Can they

01:13:58 ◼   ► make it right? Can they fix it? I don't know. Or have they actually shown us that this can't

01:14:05 ◼   ► exist?

01:14:06 ◼   ► Mm. This is the same company that came back from exploding phones. So I feel like...

01:14:12 ◼   ► The Galaxy Note was a strong brand.

01:14:17 ◼   ► It was a phone that people wanted.

01:14:18 ◼   ► And I agree with you, they can come back from it.

01:14:21 ◼   ► But it's like, what is the lasting damage to the idea of folding screens?

01:14:26 ◼   ► Because my feeling on this, they will find a way somehow to get this phone out.

01:14:32 ◼   ► They put too much money in it now.

01:14:35 ◼   ► Somebody and like all you know, the reason it costs $2,000 still remains

01:14:40 ◼   ► Someone has to do this

01:14:43 ◼   ► If this type of thing is going to exist, you know

01:14:47 ◼   ► It could have just been bad luck or they took too many risks or there's something fundamentally wrong about their form factor decisions

01:14:53 ◼   ► But like I've seen a lot of people say well

01:14:56 ◼   ► Maybe this actually makes the Huawei

01:14:59 ◼   ► more risky

01:15:01 ◼   ► because the plastic part, which is the problem, right, because that's where the flexible stuff is,

01:15:07 ◼   ► is constantly available to the elements. And if these screens being dinged too hard can kill them,

01:15:16 ◼   ► maybe being just the screen is actually worse? All of this to say Federico,

01:15:23 ◼   ► I cannot uncouple my feelings from this product, I still really want it.

01:15:29 ◼   ► I feel like you're more in love with the idea of having a folding phone than having a Galaxy Fold.

01:15:34 ◼   ► It's the one I like the most. I think it is more attractive.

01:15:39 ◼   ► And I actually believe in Samsung's ability to make this, believe it or not, a

01:15:45 ◼   ► real product more than Huawei, even though Huawei's on some real kicks at the moment,

01:15:52 ◼   ► which I think we're gonna talk about in a minute, but I still really want it.

01:15:57 ◼   ► everything that is good in the reviews and the videos and the images is exactly what I wanted and

01:16:02 ◼   ► It's like you can hear it in a lot of the reviewers when they're talking about it

01:16:07 ◼   ► It's like I know this thing is so fundamentally flawed, but I love it

01:16:13 ◼   ► Right and like that's how I look at it. It's like I like my problem child

01:16:18 ◼   ► Because I can see what is wrong with you, but I still love you

01:16:27 ◼   ► It's so annoying to me that they they that they

01:16:30 ◼   ► Whatever happened happened and like and I understand I feel like I understand like

01:16:36 ◼   ► The leaps that they are taking in technology

01:16:40 ◼   ► To try and do this. It's ahead of its time

01:16:43 ◼   ► But somebody has to do it, right

01:16:47 ◼   ► But they blew it they blew it Samsung. So annoyed at you you blew it. I

01:16:54 ◼   ► I really wonder how this happened, because even if you don't test it in a real world

01:17:02 ◼   ► environment, I don't know, doesn't Samsung have offices with windows where air and dust

01:17:08 ◼   ► can come in?

01:17:09 ◼   ► Don't they have gardens where you can find leaves and more dust, like particles?

01:17:18 ◼   ► I really struggle to believe that they don't have a testing environment.

01:17:23 ◼   ► has confirmed that it is that that's what's happened though right like there

01:17:29 ◼   ► is a possibility that the one of the gears broke right because that hinge is

01:17:35 ◼   ► full of gears and something may have dislodged right like no but no one's

01:17:40 ◼   ► actually been able to confirm because Samsung's not saying what happened to

01:17:45 ◼   ► D to bones phone right like was it debris or did something inside the phone

01:17:51 ◼   ► snap off. It's possible. I feel very confident that this could be the perfect

01:17:57 ◼   ► plot for a podcast series. Oh like Serial Season 5? What happened to Dita

01:18:02 ◼   ► Bone's phone? Yes, but honestly I mean I agree with you that folding phones

01:18:10 ◼   ► should be a thing. Maybe it was a little too early, maybe it was not early

01:18:17 ◼   ► But Samsung had the wrong process in place where different teams couldn't talk to each other.

01:18:24 ◼   ► And maybe Gruber actually had an article about this, I think yesterday, raising a very good point.

01:18:29 ◼   ► That maybe engineers did bring it up, but maybe marketing just ignored it and said,

01:18:34 ◼   ► "No, no, no, go ahead. We got a release this fund to prove a point."

01:18:36 ◼   ► But is Samsung a company that releases things to prove a point? Maybe.

01:18:41 ◼   ► Well, there's also, I mean, there, I think that this happens, this happens everywhere.

01:18:46 ◼   ► This happens in all companies, you know, everybody has a line. I don't remember exactly what

01:18:50 ◼   ► we were talking about. Oh, AirPower, right? Like, that like you get to a certain point

01:18:55 ◼   ► and you make a decision. And it might be that Samsung's decision is, let's hope that this

01:19:03 ◼   ► goes okay. When Apple's decision maybe is a little bit more like, we have strung this

01:19:09 ◼   ► for long enough now and it's time to kill it, right?

01:19:12 ◼   ► But like every company has it,

01:19:14 ◼   ► you sunk enough money into something,

01:19:16 ◼   ► you have enough writing on it,

01:19:17 ◼   ► and a lot of logic starts to go out the window.

01:19:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, but when you reach a point where,

01:19:23 ◼   ► okay, we got a product that may work

01:19:26 ◼   ► or may explode on a person's nightstand,

01:19:29 ◼   ► what are our chances?

01:19:31 ◼   ► I feel like pulling the product is probably the safest bet.

01:19:37 ◼   ► But yeah, it does feel like an instance of Samsung saying,

01:19:41 ◼   ► let's hope that people actually read the sticker

01:19:46 ◼   ► to not pull away the protection and that maybe--

01:19:48 ◼   ► - They need to, before this phone ships,

01:19:50 ◼   ► they need to make sure that there is no,

01:19:52 ◼   ► basically at the moment, it's possible for you to pick at it.

01:19:55 ◼   ► They need to extend it to the full size of the screen.

01:19:57 ◼   ► It's wild to me that they haven't already done that.

01:20:01 ◼   ► That like, you could see the ridge,

01:20:02 ◼   ► like you could pick it off.

01:20:03 ◼   ► I would 100% have pulled that off immediately.

01:20:06 ◼   ► There are things where it's like Samsung are so impressive with their hardware but every

01:20:13 ◼   ► now and then you see an instance of "that's good enough" and that doesn't always work.

01:20:20 ◼   ► It definitely doesn't work in a $2,000 phone.

01:20:23 ◼   ► There should be no gap, right?

01:20:26 ◼   ► There's like a little gap where the screen protector sits on top of the screen.

01:20:29 ◼   ► That gap should not exist.

01:20:30 ◼   ► It should go all the way to the edge.

01:20:32 ◼   ► It should look like it's the screen, not that it's something that can be removed.

01:20:37 ◼   ► That is not good enough.

01:20:39 ◼   ► You gotta go back to the drawing board on that.

01:20:41 ◼   ► And then you need to put some kind of membrane to stop dust getting in.

01:20:45 ◼   ► I don't know what you're gonna do Samsung, but you've gotta find a way to fix this one.

01:20:50 ◼   ► You've just got to do it.

01:20:53 ◼   ► And the fix can't be like what happened with the galaxy, which is we'll just hope we get

01:20:58 ◼   ► it right the next time.

01:21:00 ◼   ► That Galaxy, the Note I should say, the exploding Note, there was just no Note that year.

01:21:07 ◼   ► They started refurbishing them, putting smaller batteries in them, but they stopped selling

01:21:11 ◼   ► that product and then just got it right the next year.

01:21:13 ◼   ► I don't think that they have that luxury here.

01:21:16 ◼   ► I think they need to get this right.

01:21:17 ◼   ► This product needs to come out for them to prove the point that they were trying to make

01:21:21 ◼   ► in the first place.

01:21:24 ◼   ► now you know, AirPower and this first version of the fold are now holding their little plastic

01:21:32 ◼   ► hands in the great product graveyard in the sky.

01:21:36 ◼   ► Yep, the hall of failures.

01:21:38 ◼   ► Yeah, it's so sad. But yeah, we'll see.

01:21:43 ◼   ► I want to talk a little bit about cameras with you before we finish out today's episode,

01:21:47 ◼   ► but before we do let me thank our friends over at Smile for their support of this show.

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01:23:09 ◼   ► for

01:23:22 ◼   ► and relay FM. So there was a Ming-Chi Kuo report about the cameras coming to the

01:23:29 ◼   ► 2019 iPhones. It's saying that the front-facing camera is going to be

01:23:33 ◼   ► upgraded to a 12 megapixel camera up from 7 which is brilliant and that there

01:23:38 ◼   ► will now be a five element lens component which used to be four elements.

01:23:42 ◼   ► I'm sure I'm just I don't know what this means but I'm just gonna guess more

01:23:45 ◼   ► elements is good. Yeah let's do five elements!

01:23:50 ◼   ► Reference acknowledged. I want there to be a better camera on the front

01:23:57 ◼   ► of my phone for all the great selfies that I take. Apple will be adding a third

01:24:01 ◼   ► camera to both both OLED models the 5.8 and 6.5 inch iPhone so basically the

01:24:06 ◼   ► XS and XS Max which we're assuming is gonna be the 11 and this will be a

01:24:10 ◼   ► brand new super wide 12 megapixel lens. Now the report on 9to5 Max says that both the

01:24:16 ◼   ► super wide and the front facing camera will be coated in black so they blend in better

01:24:20 ◼   ► with the surrounding bezel. I'm confused about this.

01:24:25 ◼   ► Where's the ultra wide lens going? Is it going on the back or is it going on the front?

01:24:32 ◼   ► I think it's going on the back. This is what I thought but like, so okay,

01:24:37 ◼   ► Why is it important?

01:24:38 ◼   ► Like are they gonna make, like are they gonna be able to hide it in the camera bump?

01:24:42 ◼   ► Like if they make the camera bump bigger, what's the problem with having a third lens

01:24:46 ◼   ► show up?

01:24:47 ◼   ► Why do they need to hide it with this black coating?

01:24:49 ◼   ► I don't know because maybe it looks creepy?

01:24:52 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:24:53 ◼   ► Yeah, there's that, yeah, it does look weird.

01:24:55 ◼   ► I don't like seeing all the holes in the phone.

01:24:57 ◼   ► And like, yeah, it's what's it what's the phenomenon?

01:25:00 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like trip to something something, which is a thing that I have.

01:25:03 ◼   ► So I can't search for something.

01:25:07 ◼   ► If I search for it, then I'll see all of the images.

01:25:09 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I'm the same.

01:25:11 ◼   ► - It freaks me out so much.

01:25:12 ◼   ► It's unnatural holes in things is basically the thing.

01:25:15 ◼   ► Freaks me out, so you're gonna have to do your own Googling.

01:25:19 ◼   ► So this is great, right?

01:25:20 ◼   ► I'm excited about this.

01:25:23 ◼   ► So I wanted to just talk real briefly

01:25:24 ◼   ► about what camera enhancements we actually wanna see.

01:25:27 ◼   ► So I'll mention the ultra wide.

01:25:28 ◼   ► I want an ultra wide selfie camera

01:25:30 ◼   ► and I want an ultra wide regular camera.

01:25:32 ◼   ► That's what I want.

01:25:33 ◼   ► I want ultra wide on everything.

01:25:34 ◼   ► I want the ability to get more people in a selfie, and I also want the ability to get

01:25:43 ◼   ► a big landscape if I want it.

01:25:44 ◼   ► I don't want just a regular or I don't want it everywhere.

01:25:47 ◼   ► I agree, actually.

01:25:49 ◼   ► Especially for the group selfies.

01:25:51 ◼   ► That'd be nice.

01:25:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I am, and I see that you have this in your notes, I am especially intrigued by the

01:26:01 ◼   ► crazy optical zoom of the Huawei P30. This is all over TV commercials in Italy, I assume

01:26:09 ◼   ► everywhere else as well. Except in America, where I can't be stopped.

01:26:13 ◼   ► Except in America. You know, back in Europe we are okay with Huawei. Yes, it looks, I

01:26:20 ◼   ► mean the commercials of course, way oversell the feature. There's one of them, I don't

01:26:26 ◼   ► I don't know if it's international or not, but there's a couple on a balcony, very nice apartment,

01:26:31 ◼   ► they're on the balcony outside looking at the sky and then they zoom in on the moon and they have this

01:26:36 ◼   ► CGI effect where the actual moon becomes big enough so that it's basically in front of their eyes.

01:26:44 ◼   ► Which is of course you're not gonna get and they say like make objects 50 times bigger or stuff like that.

01:26:52 ◼   ► I don't know if it's technically 50 times bigger or not, but it looks impressive.

01:26:57 ◼   ► Yeah, in case you don't know what this this how well, how well,

01:27:00 ◼   ► Huawei P30 can do, it's kind of two things.

01:27:05 ◼   ► It can do five times optical zoom and 50 times digital zoom.

01:27:09 ◼   ► And it's very impressive.

01:27:12 ◼   ► I'll put a link to an MKBHD video, of course, in the show notes where he shows it off

01:27:16 ◼   ► as he calls it, a creeper cam.

01:27:18 ◼   ► It's very impressive.

01:27:18 ◼   ► And the way that they do it is even more impressive.

01:27:21 ◼   ► It is a periscope system with a bunch of mirrors that go down the body of the phone.

01:27:26 ◼   ► It's wild the way that they do this.

01:27:29 ◼   ► It's like a submarine.

01:27:30 ◼   ► It's a submarine, yeah. It's got a submarine camera inside.

01:27:33 ◼   ► I think it's incredible.

01:27:36 ◼   ► This is like some real serious smartphone camera advancement.

01:27:42 ◼   ► This is serious stuff, right?

01:27:45 ◼   ► They have actually built a completely different way to put a camera in a smartphone,

01:27:50 ◼   ► which is why it's cool, right? I expect to see this type of feature in more places now because

01:27:55 ◼   ► this is how you make, this is how you advance smartphone cameras, right? Like,

01:27:59 ◼   ► these are the things that you start to do if you want to start replacing all cameras, is like,

01:28:05 ◼   ► things like this, you know? You're never going to get there, but you get closer all the time,

01:28:08 ◼   ► and a five times optical zoom in a smartphone is incredible. I mean, like, people are calling this

01:28:13 ◼   ► right now, like, the P30 is the camera, which is wild that something's been able to, like,

01:28:18 ◼   ► in some people's minds start to knock the pixel, right?

01:28:21 ◼   ► But like, people are going crazy.

01:28:23 ◼   ► Just for this camera unit in general, like everything that they've done with it.

01:28:26 ◼   ► The regular camera is like 40 megapixels.

01:28:28 ◼   ► I know that megapixels don't mean everything, but they've thrown some serious hardware into it

01:28:33 ◼   ► and they've backed it up with some innovations.

01:28:35 ◼   ► It's a very cool looking thing.

01:28:36 ◼   ► And I want that.

01:28:39 ◼   ► I want a five times optical zoom.

01:28:41 ◼   ► Like, I like my two times optical zoom.

01:28:42 ◼   ► I would like more of the zooms, please.

01:28:44 ◼   ► Five is better than two.

01:28:46 ◼   ► That is what they tell me.

01:28:47 ◼   ► Also, you know, if we're talking about I want a good night mode, apparently their night

01:28:52 ◼   ► mode is like the best night mode too. Like their night mode is like killer. Even again,

01:28:58 ◼   ► better than this was Vlad at the Verge. He did a video like showing off the night mode

01:29:03 ◼   ► comparisons and like the Huawei P30's nighttime shooting is better than Night Sight, even

01:29:12 ◼   ► though Huawei also has their own version of Night Sight. So even without that software

01:29:16 ◼   ► thing turned on, it's still better at low-light photos.

01:29:20 ◼   ► It's crazy, right, that Huawei has been able to do this in just... because until a few

01:29:23 ◼   ► years ago you wouldn't think of Huawei as a good camera phone company, right?

01:29:28 ◼   ► Well, I don't really think you thought of them as anything more than just like a cheap

01:29:32 ◼   ► phone company.

01:29:33 ◼   ► Cheap iPhone copycat, maybe, at some point.

01:29:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:37 ◼   ► Well, I mean, their software is still an absolute rip of iOS, which is so frustrating to see

01:29:42 ◼   ► like you have this incredible hardware that you are like really innovating on

01:29:47 ◼   ► do something with the software like make it its own thing like they from

01:29:52 ◼   ► iconography to everything they rip off iOS still which is so annoying it's too

01:29:57 ◼   ► bad and it's also too bad that you know people just don't care about this stuff

01:30:01 ◼   ► people say oh it's just like the iPhone and it doesn't cost you know 1500 euros

01:30:06 ◼   ► I really love that they put all these like colors and finishes on the backs of

01:30:10 ◼   ► the phones like they have these like purple and blue rainbowy or a death like

01:30:14 ◼   ► it's just different right like it just looks different yeah I think it's cool I

01:30:19 ◼   ► I would I am very keen for some new stuff in the cameras anyway like just I

01:30:26 ◼   ► like more you know do you feel like the iPhones camera has gotten a little

01:30:32 ◼   ► boring over the past couple of years I mean I know that you are a smart HDR

01:30:37 ◼   ► I love it. I think it's gotten better. Okay, I mean so I'm really happy with the Smart HDR stuff

01:30:44 ◼   ► but I want more cameras in the same way that I wanted a second camera when second cameras

01:30:52 ◼   ► started being a thing right before they're on the iPhone because at first it was like well why would

01:30:57 ◼   ► you have two cameras like do you remember the LG 3D phone? You take 3D photos? Do you remember that?

01:31:02 ◼   ► this is a long time ago. I also remember the Amazon phone with a bunch of cameras.

01:31:08 ◼   ► Yeah exactly so like at first it was like more than one camera was like well this is dumb and

01:31:13 ◼   ► then when people started putting three and four cameras on phones it's like well this is dumb but

01:31:18 ◼   ► now it's like oh okay this is this is useful now like putting an ultra wide lens on a phone there

01:31:25 ◼   ► is some utility to that you can get a different type of photo so now I now want that where before

01:31:30 ◼   ► I didn't so now I'm like alright give me more cameras I want I want more cameras

01:31:35 ◼   ► give me more cameras if you're gonna give me a camera bump put all the

01:31:37 ◼   ► cameras in it just cover them with black coating so it doesn't make me freak out

01:31:41 ◼   ► and then I'll take them all please yeah maybe Tim Cook has that like

01:31:47 ◼   ► trypophobia so that's why they do it you know like that's why I think I actually

01:31:53 ◼   ► can see a req as a trypophobia type of person like it doesn't give off that

01:31:58 ◼   ► vibe that it would have this kind of phobia but I think it's totally Eddie

01:32:02 ◼   ► with trypophobia I think I can see it. So me you and Eddie were in a special

01:32:08 ◼   ► club of people freaked out by holes in things. You saw that Nokia phone right

01:32:13 ◼   ► with the five cameras? Yep. Can't look at that thing. Nope. Alright if you want to catch our

01:32:20 ◼   ► show notes for today go to relay.fm/connect2/240

01:32:24 ◼   ► We're very excited that Steven should be back next week. I hope he's back next week. I miss him

01:32:30 ◼   ► Don't tell him that should be back should be back. Hopefully we'll see

01:32:34 ◼   ► Federico max stories dotnet there was still a bunch of stuff last week that went up for the 10th anniversary

01:32:40 ◼   ► So people should go and read a lot of those things if they haven't already

01:32:43 ◼   ► You can find Federico online is at the teachy vi ti CCI on the social networks and I am at I Myke I am yke

01:32:51 ◼   ► Thanks to FreshBooks, Bombas and TextExpander for their support of this show.

01:32:56 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to handing over the hosting duties back to Steven

01:33:01 ◼   ► next week.

01:33:02 ◼   ► You know, I like being the host every now and then but it's nice to be able to just sit back and let the episode

01:33:08 ◼   ► kind of just happen to you. But anyway, this show is part of Relay FM.

01:33:11 ◼   ► You can go to relay.fm/shows to find this show and many more and

01:33:14 ◼   ► we'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye Federico.

01:33:18 ◼   ► Arrivederci.