239: Pizza Trousers


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:07   From Relay FM, this is Connected episode 239.

00:00:11   This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, Pingdom and Moo.

00:00:15   My name is Federico Vittucci and this being an odd-numbered episode,

00:00:20   it's my very utmost pleasure to introduce my friend and co-host, Myke Hurley.

00:00:25   How are you, Myke?

00:00:26   Finally, I get the introduction I've always wanted. It was perfect Federico, thank you.

00:00:31   Thank you, thank you. It feels so professional. So as you may guess, our...

00:00:35   Dad's away.

00:00:36   Dad's away. So co-hosts gone wild today. It's a fun packed episode of Connected. We've been

00:00:49   planning a bunch of topics and of course we are dispensing with follow-up today. Who needs

00:00:55   follow up. Nobody needs follow up. That all happened in the past anyway no one cares.

00:01:00   Here we are. We've got new things to talk about. It's all about new things and the future.

00:01:05   Actually our first new thing is talking about your 10 year anniversary. Oh no. Well it's

00:01:13   new you know you've only hit 10 years. It's a new anniversary. So yeah this week this

00:01:20   week actually on Saturday right the 20th is the exact date that marks the 10 year anniversary

00:01:28   of Macstories.net which is Federico's website which you I'd be super surprised if you didn't

00:01:34   know by now but so we just wanted to kind of note at the top that like you guys have

00:01:40   been doing a bunch of wonderful content this week and there's a ton of stuff over at the

00:01:43   website like you've written a piece and John has Graham came back to write something I

00:01:48   I think Steven's written something as well.

00:01:50   Yes.

00:01:50   He shared it with me, which I see.

00:01:51   Is that going up on the website?

00:01:53   Yeah, I think it's tomorrow.

00:01:55   OK. Yeah.

00:01:56   So that's actually really nice because it is

00:01:58   an oral history of our show, The Prompt and Connected.

00:02:02   That's really that's like a I don't know if you know this,

00:02:05   but that's what it's about.

00:02:06   I don't know if you've seen it.

00:02:08   I've heard.

00:02:09   You talking to me?

00:02:10   I have seen it.

00:02:12   OK, cool.

00:02:12   I wasn't sure if it was a surprise for you.

00:02:14   Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:02:16   Because I was aware of Stephen's brief, which was John just said, "Do you know the brief

00:02:21   that John gave to Stephen for this?"

00:02:23   No, that I'm not aware of.

00:02:25   You've known Federico the longest, write something.

00:02:30   It was effectively that.

00:02:32   That's my guy.

00:02:33   I like that.

00:02:34   So then Stephen was like, "Alright, I'll write about how the prompt came about."

00:02:39   There was a wonderful episode of App Stories, episode 107, which people should go and listen

00:02:44   to.

00:02:45   long and it is John just grilling you about everything Mac stories related. I was fascinated

00:02:53   by it because you sound so smart in it. Not that you aren't, but like sometimes it's nice

00:02:58   to hear. In this specific episode you sound smart. In this one specific instance you were

00:03:01   prepared enough that you were able to fool everyone. No, it's nice sometimes to be able

00:03:06   to hear people that you know are accomplished and are capable talk about things from a point

00:03:16   of authority because then you realize kind of just how accomplished and capable they

00:03:22   are and so that was really nice to listen to because you super sounded like you knew

00:03:27   what you were doing and it was very nice to hear it all.

00:03:30   Like there were some stories I'd heard before but the way it all came together was really

00:03:35   well done right like it's and this is one of those things it's like yeah you've probably heard

00:03:40   a version maybe of Federico's origin story before like the ebay store every long time listeners of

00:03:45   this show know about the ebay store right but it's it's when it's done in a different context

00:03:50   even those similar stories work perfectly and yeah it's a really really fascinating

00:03:54   90 minutes i learned some stuff about you actually that i don't think i knew

00:04:02   you seem to have like a real feeling about like not wanting to waste people's time like in a way

00:04:09   that I don't think I've ever really heard you talk about that before so it's very very interesting

00:04:15   and so yeah 10 years congratulations to you that is bonkers I'm having my 10 years um

00:04:25   next year? no wait 10 years for what? in podcasting? i missed it it was last wednesday

00:04:34   this is not how you're supposed to do anniversaries mike

00:04:42   april 10th 2009 was my first ever podcast so and you just realized? i just realized yeah

00:04:51   Well congratulations!

00:04:52   Wait, when did the iPad come out?

00:04:54   It was 2010.

00:04:56   Then it's next year.

00:04:57   It's next April.

00:04:58   Oh my god.

00:04:59   Look what do you want from me man? I can't keep track of these things.

00:05:01   I've erased all of that from the internet so it's difficult for me to find out but yeah.

00:05:05   It's a real roller coaster of emotions right now.

00:05:08   I've just passed nine years, I missed that.

00:05:10   So I've been podcasting for nine years and one week so next year is my ten year.

00:05:16   Have I told you this story?

00:05:18   You've probably heard this before. There was once on an episode of analog, I mentioned how old I was, right?

00:05:23   Like maybe like my birthday was coming up or something and I mentioned how old I was

00:05:27   And then I got follow-up correcting my age

00:05:30   Because I got it wrong

00:05:33   I think I know this yet. So, you know, what do you want from me? This is how I am. Anyway, congratulations Federico. Thank you

00:05:40   Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate the kind words, especially on the App Stories episode. Uh, yeah, this was fun. That was fun

00:05:46   And I don't like celebrating anniversaries, but ten years is a big number and all that.

00:05:51   So it felt appropriate, but still there's a bunch of other things on Mac Stories this

00:05:56   week so it's not just about us.

00:05:58   There's also back to work and all of that.

00:06:01   I just don't like talking about myself too much.

00:06:04   That's why I normally don't share these things.

00:06:06   But I'm pleased that when I did, you liked it.

00:06:10   Every now and then you go to allow yourself some of that time.

00:06:15   Alright, so on to the next topic. We want to talk about an app that launched today,

00:06:21   and that, Myke, you are actually kind of responsible for it in a way.

00:06:25   In a roundabout weird way, yes.

00:06:28   So what's this?

00:06:30   Our friend _DavidSmith, who is a prolific iOS app developer and the host of Under the

00:06:37   Radar, the co-host of Under the Radar here on Relay FM, has released an app called Calzones.

00:06:43   Now, here's the thing, so here's what I also want to know.

00:06:45   How do you say it?

00:06:46   Calzones or calzones?

00:06:47   I'm not sure.

00:06:48   Like I haven't worked out the emphasis yet.

00:06:51   It is probably, I mean, we could talk about how great the app is in a minute.

00:06:55   Wait, can you, is there a difference in what you said?

00:06:58   Yeah, calzones or calzones.

00:07:01   It's like how much do you emphasize the cal in it?

00:07:04   It sounds the same to me.

00:07:06   I'm not surprised, but like there is a slight difference.

00:07:10   like if you're just saying the word calzone you don't stop right like you're just like you're

00:07:15   just saying the word calzone but because you know it's two things and it's like what is it called

00:07:20   camel case when you've got like letters in the middle i can never remember so it's like do you

00:07:25   kind of like take a second to stop like calzones calzones i don't know but anyway oh yeah no now i

00:07:32   i can hear that yeah i i say calzones yeah calzones hmm i don't know how i say it i think it changes

00:07:40   is

00:07:59   I don't even know if Underscore would even be happy with me sharing it, but I remember

00:08:03   that he said, Lauren, his wife, was like, she had this idea for Calzones, what do you

00:08:09   think?

00:08:10   And I was like, oh hell yeah.

00:08:11   And at first I was like, I'm not sure if like, just my propensity for pun-based humor means

00:08:17   that this is good or not, but I love it.

00:08:20   And luckily everybody else seems to think that it's really funny too, and clever.

00:08:25   So it's also really memorable.

00:08:28   I do wonder what the iOS 6 version of this app would have looked like.

00:08:35   Why? Why do you wonder that?

00:08:37   It would have been full of like dough and like ovens and stuff, right? Surely.

00:08:41   Oh, for the heck of a reason.

00:08:43   The skeuomorphic version of calzones would just be full of pizza toppings.

00:08:47   Yeah, so the thing that I noticed today on Twitter is that a bunch of people wanted to check on me

00:08:54   on me whether I knew that you know calzones sounds like calzone like the

00:09:00   food the meal and yes why would I not know this it's not that it sounds like

00:09:06   it's the same word it's just more than one calzone yes we do have calzone in

00:09:12   Italy we pronounce it differently how do you pronounce it no it's very different

00:09:17   it's calzone oh that's not that different okay it's I guess the accent

00:09:22   is different. If you would have said to me how do you think we say it in Italy, that's

00:09:26   how I would have said it. Okay, and also this is interesting, I got a bunch of people saying

00:09:31   that it sounds kind of funny in Spanish or Portuguese, I'm not sure, basically it's the

00:09:37   word for underpants I think. That's incredible. That's the thing, and I mean technically in

00:09:43   Italian calzoni would mean like trousers I guess, it's the same word really, but here's

00:09:51   Here's the thing, when you do an English pun, an English name, it's gonna sound weird in

00:09:58   some other language.

00:09:59   Yeah, it doesn't matter what it is.

00:10:02   There's some app names that sound funny in Italian, and there's nothing you can do about

00:10:06   it.

00:10:07   So I think it's a very funny pun.

00:10:10   And sort of a...

00:10:11   I guess if you think about it, I guess calzones are like the underpants of pizza.

00:10:16   It's like wraps around... anyway.

00:10:21   We should talk about the app itself.

00:10:22   - It's very good.

00:10:24   Do you wanna just describe the basic UI

00:10:27   and then I have like a bunch of little parts

00:10:28   that I wanna talk about. - Sure.

00:10:29   So the idea is there's two main views.

00:10:33   There's a grid that lets you compare time zones

00:10:36   between multiple locations around the world.

00:10:39   And this is a grid that shows you

00:10:43   like all the hours of the day.

00:10:45   And you can actually in settings,

00:10:48   you can set what your work hours are.

00:10:51   And those hours will have a lighter shade,

00:10:54   a lighter color in the grid.

00:10:57   And as you scroll, you can see how the time changes

00:10:59   throughout the day across all of your time zones.

00:11:02   And when you reach, for example, off work hours

00:11:05   and then nighttime hours, the colors get darker

00:11:09   and you can advance for multiple days.

00:11:11   And at the bottom of this grid,

00:11:13   you will see calendar events that start at the time

00:11:17   that is above on the grid.

00:11:20   And you can see what the time of the event looks like

00:11:24   in other time zones.

00:11:25   It's a very clever way to compare that.

00:11:26   - So like if me and Federico are talking and we're like,

00:11:29   oh, we wanna set up something for Tuesday at three o'clock,

00:11:33   I would scroll in calzones through my list

00:11:36   until I kind of get to Tuesday at three o'clock.

00:11:38   So I could do the time zone conversion, right?

00:11:40   To see what the time is for everybody involved.

00:11:42   But then I would also see,

00:11:44   oh, I have a calendar appointment at that time.

00:11:47   That, just on its own, that was the idea.

00:11:51   So, okay, so the reason I'm involved in this is this,

00:11:54   that idea of like, here is a list of all your time zones

00:11:56   which you can scroll through

00:11:57   and your calendar events appear at the bottom.

00:12:00   That was the original idea that Underscore had in February

00:12:02   and he sent it to me and my brain exploded

00:12:05   because I could not believe I'd never seen this before

00:12:09   because if you think about it,

00:12:11   when you're doing a time zone conversion,

00:12:13   it's super important to know if you're busy at that time, right?

00:12:17   Because what I would do is check the time zone conversion,

00:12:21   see if everyone can make it, check my calendar,

00:12:25   realize I have an appointment, go back, do it again, right? Like this is,

00:12:30   this is like the typical flow and adding those two things together is like the

00:12:34   genius part of it. So then I told him how excited it,

00:12:37   it made me and then he spent a couple of months developing it. Um,

00:12:42   And yeah, and then it went on from there.

00:12:45   So yeah, so that's like the basic part of Calzones

00:12:49   is you have the time zones and you can convert them,

00:12:51   you can see where everything is,

00:12:53   but it also has integration with a calendar.

00:12:55   But then it goes a little bit further than that.

00:12:57   - Yeah, so there's a second view

00:12:59   and you can flip between them.

00:13:01   There's a button in the bottom right corner of the app.

00:13:04   The second view is a monthly calendar

00:13:06   where it's a standard monthly calendar.

00:13:08   Each day has colored dots.

00:13:10   if there's any events on that day.

00:13:12   And when you tap on a day,

00:13:14   you get a list of events at the bottom.

00:13:15   Now, each event can be expanded.

00:13:18   And when you do, you switch from viewing just the local time

00:13:23   of the event to this sort of special expanded view

00:13:28   that shows you the local time for the event,

00:13:30   but also what that event looks like in other time zones.

00:13:35   So for example, right now, let's see,

00:13:37   Today is Wednesday.

00:13:38   I have connected MI7, but I can expand the event.

00:13:42   And it says in London, it will be at 6 p.m. for Myke.

00:13:46   Or in Memphis, it'll be noon.

00:13:48   And the same would be for John.

00:13:50   Now, John is not a timezone, of course,

00:13:53   but it's the custom name that I assigned,

00:13:55   which is also a feature of Calzones, to Chicago,

00:13:58   which is actually the same timezone as Steven in Memphis,

00:14:01   but I like to keep them separate.

00:14:02   - Yeah, 'cause sometimes locations are not important,

00:14:05   but the family members that are in those places are.

00:14:08   So you could set the names of all of your family members

00:14:11   spread across the world in as this separate time zone.

00:14:14   So you can see, oh, for Mary, it's this.

00:14:16   For Freddie, it's this, which is like another

00:14:18   just nice little feature of the app.

00:14:20   - Yeah, and I would say the third major feature for me

00:14:25   is the custom date picker in continent.

00:14:28   - The custom date picker.

00:14:30   - So because it's got,

00:14:35   As you can tell, Myke really likes this feature too.

00:14:36   - I love this feature.

00:14:38   - So you, of course, thanks to the calendar integration,

00:14:42   in addition to viewing your events,

00:14:43   you can also modify them and create new ones.

00:14:46   And when you create a calendar event

00:14:48   or when you modify an existing one,

00:14:50   there's a, you know, the standard fields

00:14:53   for starts and ends, if it's a timed event.

00:14:58   And when you tap on them, what's different is that

00:15:01   instead of just seeing a single time,

00:15:03   usually your local time, you will also get a date picker

00:15:08   that shows you multiple time zones.

00:15:10   And when you scroll, all of them scroll at the same time

00:15:14   in 15 minute increments.

00:15:16   So it's like you can schedule an event for your local time,

00:15:21   but at the same time, you can also confirm the time

00:15:24   in other time zones.

00:15:26   It's amazing.

00:15:27   - There are a few things in this app.

00:15:30   Again, I keep saying it of like,

00:15:33   I see them and I'm like, why is this the first time I've seen somebody do this?

00:15:37   And this is one of them.

00:15:39   Like obviously everybody just uses the standard time date picker because it's

00:15:44   built into the system. Like why not just do it? Right.

00:15:46   But this is an example of somebody who really understands the app that they're

00:15:51   making. Like,

00:15:52   Underscore didn't need to put this part in because he has all of the other part,

00:15:57   right? Like in theory,

00:15:58   you've already checked what the time is because it's a time zone converter,

00:16:00   right? You've already checked it.

00:16:02   But this just adds that extra level on top to really like totally nail down what this app is all about.

00:16:09   And it's one of a few features that I absolutely adore about this application.

00:16:16   Another one is the widget in general is incredible.

00:16:21   So what we were describing earlier about where you have the grid which shows all of your times,

00:16:26   which goes off into the distance and your calendar events at the bottom,

00:16:29   That is the widget as well. I've never seen a widget replicate an app's UI in this way.

00:16:37   It's incredibly powerful and something that I love about it, so you're in the widget and I'm tapping through and I'm like,

00:16:44   "Okay, so I know what time I want to do this. I want to do it at 3pm Eastern."

00:16:48   If you tap on 3pm in the Eastern kind of row, it will open up the app to a new event at that time.

00:16:56   that time, which is just like, yeah, that's exactly what I want it to do.

00:17:02   Right. Because that's perfect.

00:17:04   And that's very nice.

00:17:06   Did you know it did that?

00:17:07   I did. I didn't cover the widget in my review because I really don't use widgets.

00:17:14   Basically, my widgets page is just for shortcuts at this point.

00:17:17   That makes sense. Yeah, the widget was really, really important to me because.

00:17:22   that's what I was all of my timezone conversion was happening in another widget like that's where

00:17:28   it was happening before I was using a widget called clock which I've used for years

00:17:32   so when when underscore was showing me this stuff I was like the widget has to be good and I need it

00:17:39   to be interactive and all that kind of stuff and he just he did something that was very like I say

00:17:43   very surprising to me because the widget just looks like the UI of the application I kind of

00:17:48   of don't understand how he was able to do that because it seems like it would

00:17:51   have been too complex and instead of being able to swipe you just have

00:17:55   buttons for left and right and it just scrolls the views but then you just tap

00:17:59   on any of the little grid squares you should go look at the the Federico's

00:18:04   review there's links in our show notes so you can understand kind of like how it

00:18:07   looks but yeah so you tap on any of the grid squares and it just opens to the

00:18:13   time though which I think is fantastic the Apple watch complication customizer

00:18:17   a feature so you can go and you can create custom complications which in and of itself

00:18:23   is just brilliant right like I think it's like a great idea but he but then underscore also

00:18:28   rebuilt Apple watch faces inside of his app which work with the tortoise and hare icons to speed it

00:18:34   up and stuff so you can see how it will change over the day I don't know why he did that right

00:18:39   but I loved it he did it uh and like he was uh there's a great episode of under the radar which

00:18:46   they published today too, and basically Underscore just seemed to just do this

00:18:49   because he wanted to do it, and I think that that's so fun.

00:18:52   Yeah, some of those complications I don't understand myself because they move

00:18:59   in a way that is opposite to what I expect.

00:19:03   Interesting.

00:19:04   The day and night, I think the sun moves counterclockwise, and I was expecting it to

00:19:12   move clockwise because that's how I associated the idea of progress. Instead it moves the other way.

00:19:19   Instead of, so the moon comes in from the right side of the circle, which was kind of weird to me.

00:19:25   I guess that's like, I don't know, because the sun rises east, maybe? I don't know. Anyway,

00:19:32   I mostly, I just love the fact that I can put the New York time on my watch face. And yes,

00:19:40   I can do it with the Apple Clock app. If you add multiple series in the Clock app on your iPhone,

00:19:46   you can add those complications on the Apple Watch. But when I tap on the New York Time on my

00:19:52   Watch face, it opens call zones on the Watch, the app. So with one tap I can go from Watch face to

00:20:01   the list of time zones on my Watch, which is great for comparing time zones between multiple

00:20:06   and I can spin the digital crown to advance the time

00:20:11   or go back in the past.

00:20:12   It's really well done.

00:20:13   And yeah, I mean, I don't know about you, Myke,

00:20:17   but I put this one on my home screen

00:20:19   and it's on my iPad's dock.

00:20:23   There's a few things that I would like to see

00:20:24   down in the feature that I mentioned in the review.

00:20:27   I would like to see iCloud sync

00:20:30   so that I don't have to recreate all my time zones

00:20:32   and my custom abbreviations and my custom names.

00:20:35   multiple times on the iPhone and iPad.

00:20:38   I don't know if it's possible,

00:20:39   but I would love to see something different on the iPad

00:20:42   in terms of layout.

00:20:43   Right now, the app is mostly functional.

00:20:45   It's a blown up version of the iPhone app,

00:20:48   which is fine for me because I mostly use it in slide over.

00:20:50   So it's an iPhone layout anyway,

00:20:52   but I wonder if there's maybe a way to do

00:20:55   sort of a richer, more versatile.

00:20:57   - That would be nice, yeah.

00:20:58   - Yeah, and Siri shortcuts would be really good

00:21:02   just to be able to assign a voice phrase to,

00:21:06   I don't know, show me the Chicago time zone.

00:21:09   Because whenever I wanna,

00:21:11   I ask Siri to show me a time zone,

00:21:15   I always get the syntax wrong.

00:21:16   And I think at some point I figured out

00:21:20   what the right sequence of words was

00:21:22   to get Siri to do time zone conversions like I wanted,

00:21:26   but then I forgot.

00:21:27   And now I don't have the patience to look into it.

00:21:28   - 'Cause now you could just be like,

00:21:30   oh, hey, show me Chicago.

00:21:32   - Yes. - Right, like that's it, right?

00:21:33   And then you'd get it,

00:21:34   'cause that's actually a really good thought.

00:21:36   I hadn't thought of that one.

00:21:37   - And also, my final thing would be,

00:21:40   because I have a bunch of shortcuts that do,

00:21:43   like custom shortcuts in the Shortcuts app,

00:21:45   that do time zone calculations,

00:21:48   but they use a web service that I actually pay for,

00:21:52   I think, to do those things.

00:21:55   I would love to stop using the web API that I'm using

00:21:59   and just get the data from calzones.

00:22:02   Now, of course, those custom shortcuts

00:22:06   would have to be based on acts and workarounds,

00:22:09   like getting the data from the system clipboard,

00:22:12   but maybe fingers crossed,

00:22:14   we're gonna get an actual shortcuts API

00:22:16   for developers at WWDC.

00:22:18   So maybe underscore, we'll wait for that

00:22:21   and do custom shortcuts to get data out of the app.

00:22:24   That would be awesome.

00:22:27   So recently on an episode of Cortex, I think it's like towards the end of last year, I was

00:22:31   I was talking about how I felt that there were no really new apps anymore.

00:22:35   Yes.

00:22:35   It just and this is something that me and you had a bit of a debate about.

00:22:39   I think we I don't think we spoke about it in public, but you

00:22:42   I understand understandably because it's your job mostly disagreed with me.

00:22:46   But I think we came to some kind of consensus that it slowed down.

00:22:50   Like new ideas have slowed down.

00:22:54   And what I love about Calzones is that it is completely unique.

00:22:59   And it's something that I really need and can use every day

00:23:04   that I've never seen before.

00:23:06   And it immediately makes sense, which is why it's on my home screen.

00:23:09   So I still use it in conjunction with Fantastical

00:23:13   because there's still some stuff that I would want to see

00:23:16   added to it before I would switch it to be my full calendar as well.

00:23:20   like there's stuff that like like managing event invites I don't think any

00:23:24   of that is in calzones or natural day entry and things like that but they're

00:23:30   all like that's a future for this app if hopefully it works of like making it a

00:23:36   fully complete calendar where right now it has all of the basics that you would

00:23:41   need for a calendar but these are like the advanced features right of a calendar

00:23:45   I always decline calendar invites.

00:23:49   Well, Steven loves to send them. Steven just adores sending me calendar invites, so I kind of can't get away from it.

00:23:57   He's very calendar invite heavy. I remember there was a time where you used to send calendar invites to us for this show.

00:24:05   Yeah, but then I saw the light. I think it was accidental.

00:24:09   Do you remember we couldn't get rid of it? It just wouldn't go away. It just kept coming back forever.

00:24:14   one? It was one of those things that you do, right? I have this great idea to automate

00:24:19   something and then it haunts the people that you work with for months.

00:24:23   Well, in my defense I was using Sunrise. Remember Sunrise? The calendar app?

00:24:29   That was the one that Microsoft bought, right?

00:24:30   Yeah, and then it disappeared. Yeah, it was doing something weird. It was not an automation,

00:24:37   it was some kind of a, I don't know, weird feature.

00:24:40   with people with regular calendar invites is a nightmare. Like every two weeks I get

00:24:45   an email that like Steven's changed it but he hasn't. It just, I don't know what happens.

00:24:49   I just get an email where it's like "oh it's been changed in October 2019" it's like this

00:24:53   doesn't make any sense, nothing's happened. But yeah I love this app, it's amazing. There

00:24:59   is a hashtag #MykeWasRight theme. I think that was David's thanks to me for kind of

00:25:05   providing some advice along the way which I love because it means that Myke was right

00:25:10   is now featured on the App Store. There's a screenshot with the themes in it. So I get

00:25:16   that there. It's kind of a wonderful experience to be able to have input on an application

00:25:23   that is specifically going to be used by you. So it's been great to be able to provide Dave

00:25:28   with this. And I will tell you, oh boy, that guy is incredible. Right? Like I know everybody

00:25:35   knows this about David Smith's developing talent, but seeing things go from like,

00:25:43   what do you think? I will say to him like, Oh, Dave, like, what do you think about this?

00:25:47   And he's like, Okay, and then like, two hours later, it's he has a new test flight build out.

00:25:51   It's like, I don't understand how you've done this. Like, the man is an absolute beast and a

00:25:58   genius. And I really think that people should should get this app. It's like $5. It's amazing.

00:26:04   If you ever seriously if you ever have to look at a time zone to schedule any kind of call meeting event

00:26:11   this is now the

00:26:13   Standard bearer of app that you would want right like everything else compares to this

00:26:18   Because just some of the basic features of this application a bond on the best way I've ever seen it done

00:26:24   So you should check it out because it's amazing not just because underscore is awesome, too

00:26:30   It's true.

00:26:31   Alright, are you doing the ads or am I doing them?

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00:28:02   So I have a friend of the show Guilherme Rambeau who

00:28:08   I've so much enjoyed watching him

00:28:12   Over the last couple of years going from like hey, I found something to now

00:28:17   Works at 9 to 5 Mac and is publishing really interesting stuff all the time

00:28:22   Something's happened, right?

00:28:26   Because we're on Wednesday, the last three days,

00:28:31   Gee has had some kind of scoop that nobody else has gotten near

00:28:37   about iOS 13 features.

00:28:39   So something's happened.

00:28:42   And what I like about this, and I think this shows,

00:28:46   9to5 have been very smart about this, whoever had this idea,

00:28:49   they are taking the Apple approach from a few weeks ago.

00:28:52   They've got a bunch of stuff, but let's not do it all at once.

00:28:55   Let's own this week, which I assume that they're doing I doubt that this is it unless they're gonna pull an air power on us

00:29:02   But right like I expect that there'll be something tomorrow and then just like Mac is cancelled

00:29:06   No, I expect there'll be something every day this week

00:29:11   But like we'll get into so like some of this stuff happened on Monday and me and Jason spoke about it and we're gonna talk

00:29:20   About some of those things today. Then there was a report yesterday and there was another report today

00:29:25   they. But I don't know what's happened here. But I expect... Okay, so they're saying that

00:29:35   they have sources, which I'm sure they do. But I think someone's got their hands on something.

00:29:42   This feels too much. This feels way too deep to be just like, "Oh, we spoke to someone

00:29:49   on a bar, right? Like, I wouldn't be surprised if they have spoken to people, they've maybe

00:29:54   confirmed things here or there, but some of the details feel like typical Guillermo Rambone

00:30:03   and Steve Trout Smith data mining stuff.

00:30:07   You know, it's Guillermo featuring Steve, really. It's a collab.

00:30:12   Exactly. So like, you see, like just mentioned every now and then, like, "Oh, Steve Trout

00:30:17   Smith was involved in helping this article. And that confirms to me that they're digging

00:30:22   through stuff together because Steve is not a reporter. That's kind of just my opinion

00:30:32   on this. I genuinely do not know, but I expect something's been looked through.

00:30:39   Yeah, yeah. And, you know, the kind of detail and the kind of technical sort of analysis

00:30:46   that has gone through in these reports really seems to suggest, and this is just my speculation,

00:30:52   but it seems to suggest that they must have something on their hands to back up all this

00:30:57   information. But in any case, so that would be a really interesting backstory whenever,

00:31:03   they're ready to share this if at all possible. If possible. Well, we'll see.

00:31:07   I kind of wanted to discuss with you a few aspects of these reports. So you went over,

00:31:14   when the first article went out all about iOS 13 and some iPad features, you ran through all of

00:31:20   those features with JSON on upgrade. I wanted to focus on some of them, especially because yesterday

00:31:27   they had an article about how Apple is planning a sort of Luna display-like product to use

00:31:33   the iPad Pro as a display for your Mac. Today they have a third article about "Find My iPhone"

00:31:40   and "Find My Friends" becoming single app with support for physical tags that you can

00:31:45   attach to it.

00:31:46   Which Apple might be making, which seems wild to me.

00:31:50   Yeah. So go read those articles. I want to focus on some aspects, specific aspects. So

00:31:55   So let's start from the iPad.

00:31:57   And I want to talk to you about, because this is a point that you made on upgrade, the idea

00:32:01   that the iPad is getting Windows and cards or panels.

00:32:08   So this idea of, we're gonna get iPad apps that support multiple Windows, but what do

00:32:14   Windows actually look like?

00:32:16   And I think we cannot agree on the fact that we're not gonna get Mac-like or PC-like freely

00:32:23   resizable Windows.

00:32:24   I don't think we can all agree, but I think most people that use iPads know that.

00:32:31   I really think that there are a lot of people that think that means it's going to look like

00:32:35   the Mac, but it's not going to.

00:32:37   It's not going to look like the Mac.

00:32:41   Referring to Window as the idea of a canvas, like the space where an app can be.

00:32:50   But what's it going to look like when an app can have multiple views?

00:32:54   So I think it's referring to, last year I think German at Bloomberg referred to the

00:33:00   ability to have tabbed windows, sort of like on the Mac, where modern Mac apps can open

00:33:06   multiple tabs for multiple views.

00:33:08   I guess the idea would be, they're not going to be traditional windows.

00:33:11   You're not going to be able to resize from the corner and make them smaller, I think.

00:33:17   For the longest time I thought there were going to be some kind of tabs.

00:33:22   And for some reason I imagined, do you remember Myke, when Safari 4 came out many, many years

00:33:30   ago, and they did that design with tabs at the top above the address bar, and a lot of

00:33:37   people hated the change.

00:33:39   I didn't remember it from my memory, but when I went to the link that you provided, I remembered

00:33:45   it.

00:33:46   So yes, I do remember this.

00:33:47   Yeah, so for some reason I always imagined it's gonna look like that, you're gonna be

00:33:52   be able to switch between multiple views of the same app with some kind of tab UI

00:33:56   at the very top, just right under the status bar. I don't know why. It's just my

00:34:02   thought. But bigger picture like, okay, we're gonna get the ability to have

00:34:06   multiple views, but what does it actually mean in terms of the content that you

00:34:13   see on screen? So right now on iOS, when you open an app, it can be one thing,

00:34:21   It can be one screen, one instance of the same app.

00:34:26   And I think what we're gonna get in iOS 13

00:34:30   is a way to have separate instances of the same app.

00:34:34   So for example, you can have pages, which is one app,

00:34:38   but you can have multiple views or column tabs

00:34:40   or column windows that show you document one

00:34:43   and document two.

00:34:44   And those two views can be separate.

00:34:46   But my question would be instead of what I want

00:34:48   discuss with you is to what extent they can be separate.

00:34:51   And I have a bunch of questions here.

00:34:53   My first one would be, will this

00:34:57   improved multitasking feature be exclusive

00:35:02   to document based apps or

00:35:05   just any app? Because right now, if

00:35:08   you think about it, Apple is using as two

00:35:11   main systems sort of to identify the kind

00:35:15   of content that you see in an iOS app.

00:35:17   can either be a document or it can be an activity. And they're using this beautiful API that is NSUserActivity

00:35:24   that is basically a catch-all umbrella for everything on iOS at this point. You know, Siri shortcuts are

00:35:29   based on NSUserActivity and predictions are based on everything is based on...

00:35:33   It's the entire SDK at this point. It's just swallowing everything up slowly.

00:35:37   Yeah. So I assume that it's easy to imagine like opening multiple documents, but I think just

00:35:45   any app should be capable of showing you multiple views.

00:35:50   One example could be one window or one view shows you the Twitter timeline and another

00:35:56   view shows you your mentions.

00:35:58   That kind of stuff.

00:36:00   I don't know what kind of API Apple is going to use, but this idea of not just documents,

00:36:05   but anything you want.

00:36:06   And again, there's precedent for this, which would be Safari.

00:36:10   Safari has its own split view feature that lets you open two web pages.

00:36:16   So, not documents, not maybe activities strictly speaking, but just two views from the same app at the same time.

00:36:25   Which brings me to my second question, or second point of discussion, is these multiple views.

00:36:33   Do they need to be shown at the same time on screen?

00:36:38   Like, for example, Safari right now, it supports its own split view, but you need to be in Safari to see these two views simultaneously.

00:36:49   But what's being rumored for iOS 13, to me at least, it sounds like something a little more complex than what Safari supports.

00:36:57   And I have to wonder, if you're doing multiple instances of the same app, can you actually separate them so that you don't have to see them on screen at the same time?

00:37:08   Will you be able to do things like one space will be Twitter and Pages showing you one document and then you will be able to do another space with Safari and also Pages showing you a second document?

00:37:23   Will you be able to do this kind of stuff?

00:37:26   But if the answer is yes,

00:37:29   that adds a whole new layer of complication

00:37:31   to managing multitasking on iOS.

00:37:34   In that right now, as I mentioned in the beginning,

00:37:37   when you're using an app, it's one thing, it's one instance.

00:37:42   And if you wanna close that app,

00:37:43   you just open the multitasking switcher

00:37:46   and you close it and you force quit the app.

00:37:48   But if multiple instances are scattered

00:37:52   all throughout the multitasking, the app switcher.

00:37:56   And if you create these instances that are broken,

00:38:00   one is paired with an app and another is full screen

00:38:04   and another, like how many can you create?

00:38:06   Is it just two?

00:38:07   Is it three?

00:38:08   Is it four?

00:38:09   Can you combine them with other apps?

00:38:11   And if yes, how do you close them all?

00:38:13   And at what point do you basically recreate

00:38:16   what's possible on macOS?

00:38:18   Even though they're not resizable windows,

00:38:21   you end up in a situation where you can have multiple windows from the same app all over the place.

00:38:25   That's how it works on the Mac. You can have multiple Safari windows and you can, you know,

00:38:30   replace them whatever you want. You can have spaces, you can have, you know, resize them. On iOS, you wouldn't be able to resize them.

00:38:37   But if we were to grant users all this freedom,

00:38:40   you would have a bunch of Safari instances all over the place. And I don't know, I don't know what,

00:38:48   Of course, I don't know the answer. I don't know what Apple wants to do, but I want to ask you would you

00:38:54   Do you think you would ever use for this kind of freedom if you were you know, if you were allowed to open?

00:39:02   One version let's call it version or view because instance it sounds to developer, you know to

00:39:10   Programmery to me

00:39:13   Would you have a use for one view of?

00:39:16   Twitter in one place and another view in some other place or would you prefer to

00:39:22   have them side by side or would you prefer it all to have the choice of

00:39:26   using them side by side or using them separately? What do you have something

00:39:33   in mind when you think about this feature, Myke?

00:39:36   So, all right, so definitely yes but most of my instances are document-based as

00:39:41   you mentioned, right? So like two Google Docs, two pages, uh,

00:39:46   documents, two numbers, spreadsheets, and sometimes they'll be together,

00:39:49   but sometimes they'd be in different places. And that's like,

00:39:52   that would work perfectly fine for me. You know,

00:39:54   like treating each instance of a document being opened,

00:39:57   like it's its own window. Like, do you know where that happens?

00:40:00   That happens on the Mac.

00:40:01   And this goes back to the beginning of the questions that you were asking.

00:40:06   Like, you know, when we were talking about, it's like, oh,

00:40:08   what is it going to be based on?

00:40:11   I think the answer is none of the things that exist currently.

00:40:13   Like this is part of marzipan in my mind, because

00:40:18   what Apple would have to do to make these things match up

00:40:23   is to provide the ability for an application

00:40:27   to be fragmented into multiple instances, because that's how the Mac works.

00:40:31   And then when you tie in this idea of like Apple doing this project

00:40:36   called Sidecar, which is this sharing of screens.

00:40:40   I think it's sharing of windows.

00:40:41   So like you have a window on the Mac, you can put it on iOS, it just pops up.

00:40:45   Right. And now you've got that window there,

00:40:47   because I expect there to be this like synergy of these marzipan apps of

00:40:52   windows being used in different ways.

00:40:56   So on the Mac, they're like you can put them wherever you want.

00:40:59   Right. Like imagine Safari tabs just for simplicity sake.

00:41:03   You can pull them all apart and put them wherever you want.

00:41:05   On iOS, you can break them up and put them next to each other or put them in

00:41:09   different with other applications in different split view instances.

00:41:12   But they're all separate windows.

00:41:14   Right. So like that's kind of how I imagine it working.

00:41:18   Now, when you come down to like, well, how does it work with closing them?

00:41:23   One, don't worry about it.

00:41:24   It's iOS, right?

00:41:26   Like the system will does the system will take care of the potential risk

00:41:31   of them being open, like memory issues.

00:41:33   So that's not going to be like in other places, like that's going to be taken care of.

00:41:37   And I'm sure there will probably be new gestures, right?

00:41:41   Maybe the gesture of holding down on an app icon now will show you some kind of expose-like

00:41:47   view of here's all of your instances of that application being open.

00:41:52   Or it will be like what happens on the Mac, where if I have multiple Finder windows open

00:41:56   or whatever, when I hit the Finder icon it just takes me to the one that I most recently

00:42:00   used.

00:42:01   find the other one I've got to go look for it. Like there are problems when you

00:42:07   look at it like oh how does it work of iOS but these are accepted / solved

00:42:13   problems on the Mac which is why I think what we're gonna see is something that

00:42:19   really bridges the gap between these two operating systems when it comes to like

00:42:24   this windowing nature on iPad?

00:42:26   Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:42:28   Personally speaking,

00:42:30   I hope there's

00:42:32   going to be support

00:42:34   for multiple modes

00:42:36   of opening these views. Like,

00:42:38   I want to be able to choose to have either

00:42:40   tabs, side-by-side, or

00:42:42   sort of replicate what Safari can do

00:42:44   with its own split-screen mode.

00:42:46   But also, I would love to

00:42:48   compare

00:42:50   the same app with multiple apps

00:42:52   apps at the same time and sort of have multiple spaces.

00:42:57   I feel like it would be a failure to not be able to do both.

00:43:00   Yeah, and I hope that in doing this Apple sort of reconsiders what they've done with

00:43:07   iOS 11 multitasking in that I would love to finally have a way to create my own templates

00:43:14   for app spaces and to do something like I want to create a space and give it a name

00:43:21   and sort of call it the writing space. And it's always got my text editor and Evernote, for example.

00:43:27   And to say put one window here and another window there and then create a separate note taking

00:43:35   space, which also has Evernote because multiple windows can be multiple places. So this ability

00:43:41   to create my own spaces, my own favorite spaces. And I hope there's also going to be some kind of

00:43:47   way to control this, especially from shortcuts. I would love to have a way from shortcuts to

00:43:56   control quote-unquote "windows" and say "open this view in Ulysses" or "open this view in Safari"

00:44:03   to be able to control these tabs or windows or whatever and automate them from shortcuts.

00:44:10   And I also hope that developers will have a way to control how they can open views.

00:44:17   Like, will they be able to offer, I don't know, buttons that say "Open this document in a separate view"

00:44:24   or will it be like a system gesture that like ties into drag and drop or some other way?

00:44:29   The actual implementation of this will be fascinating to see just how closer to the desktop metaphor Apple wants to get.

00:44:39   or if they actually rethought the entire concept for touch.

00:44:44   That would be interesting in just how open it will be.

00:44:46   But also, the idea of these panels, of these cards, that is also mentioned in the 95 Mac report,

00:44:54   they specifically call out this project called PanelKit.

00:45:00   It was made by, and I'm gonna get his name wrong, Louis Dov.

00:45:06   I'm not sure, I think it's Belgian, so I'm not sure how to pronounce that.

00:45:10   He's working at Apple now. Yeah, of course. Well, you know, fun fact, he also made an open source

00:45:19   terminal for iOS, so open term. Really, really good app. Anyway, he works at Apple now. So this idea

00:45:28   that in iOS 13 there will be a way to detach these sort of like popovers, these panels,

00:45:36   and detach them from the interface and make them float as little cards on screen and actually

00:45:44   stack multiple cards with each other.

00:45:47   Like pallets in Photoshop and stuff like that?

00:45:51   Yeah, yeah, exactly like that.

00:45:54   So whether it's like an inspector or a palette of tools, like this idea that you can detach

00:46:00   them from their origin point, move them around, sort of like you can move around the picture-in-picture

00:46:07   video player, that's how I'm imagining this thing, basically what PanelKit was, but with

00:46:14   the ability to also stack them.

00:46:16   And I assume to flick between those cards when they're stacked.

00:46:21   I am actually in love with this idea already, just hearing about it.

00:46:25   And I wonder if it is what I'm imagining it will be.

00:46:30   This way of combining the freeform windowing approach with the simplicity of touch.

00:46:39   Like, taking this idea of, you can have these little windows, these little palettes,

00:46:45   palettes, but turning them in a system that is entirely based on multi-touch and the iOS

00:46:55   design language.

00:46:56   So they are interactive, you can throw them around and they bounce around the corners

00:47:01   of the screen and they have realistic physics and then you can stack them and you can manipulate

00:47:06   them.

00:47:07   I'm in love with the idea already.

00:47:08   So I'm imagining creativity apps like Pixelmator, for example, or Affinity, or more productivity

00:47:20   apps like Pages or OmniGraffo or OmniFocus.

00:47:24   Those apps that have rich, complex interfaces, that have multiple inspectors, multiple palettes.

00:47:30   I can see how there may be ways to

00:47:34   give you more power in the sense that you can show multiple inspectors at the

00:47:40   same time,

00:47:40   but also a way to quickly group them all together as

00:47:45   floating panels.

00:47:46   Well, it makes it really great for smaller screen devices, right?

00:47:51   Because then you can have more tools on screen,

00:47:54   but they're where you need them to be, but they're stacked up.

00:47:58   So you just got to flick through the panels and you get what you need,

00:48:00   which makes it great when you're like taking an application from a 27 inch

00:48:04   iMac all the way down to an 11 inch iPad. Right.

00:48:09   But then you can have a similar experience because now instead of like separating

00:48:13   out all of your panels or your palettes in Pixelmator,

00:48:17   you can still have all those tools available to you,

00:48:20   like at your fingertips quite literally. But they're,

00:48:24   they're stacked up on top of each other and there's,

00:48:27   you can kind of move them around more freely than you have been able to.

00:48:30   It's like one of my great frustrations with pixelmator on the iPad

00:48:34   is I feel like I can never find the tools that I need, but I know they're there.

00:48:39   And it's because they're hidden in these weird iOS.

00:48:42   Well, I mean, I'm talking about like original pixelmator, not pixelmator photo,

00:48:47   where they made it look like that iPhoto app.

00:48:50   Right. So like, it's not even it doesn't even feel like typical iOS conventions today.

00:48:56   Like you hit this button and then this window pops up with a bunch of tools in

00:48:59   it and it's like super difficult to understand where things are, but it's

00:49:01   still a great app on iOS, still very powerful, but it could be designed way

00:49:05   better. Something like what the upcoming Photoshop is going to look like, right?

00:49:08   Where they've shown it with panels, right?

00:49:10   Like it's a Photoshop like interface.

00:49:13   And there's a bunch of apps already that exist on iOS that are like that, like

00:49:18   all those affinity apps and stuff.

00:49:19   They have a version that they built themselves, right?

00:49:22   of these like movable panels. Maybe they're using PanelKit, I don't know, or something

00:49:27   like it. But it would be amazing to have stuff like that as a system convention, even more

00:49:33   so if you could then possibly imagine this weird and wonderful world where you might

00:49:38   even be able to take those panels and put them somewhere else. Who knows, right? We're

00:49:42   in the wild west now.

00:49:44   Something that I want to say before we talk about the next topics here. This idea that,

00:49:49   know, the iPad has been around long enough for iPad purists to exist in the

00:49:57   community and sort of these folks who are against any kind of

00:50:06   idea where the iPad can become more powerful or complex than it is. And I

00:50:11   think, of course, I end up on the complete opposite side of this spectrum. I'm all

00:50:17   for the iPad becoming more like a more like a desktop computer in the sense of the kind of power that it gives to you not

00:50:24   in the kind of complication that it comes with and so I hope that in doing all of this in

00:50:28   Supporting multiple windows and in supporting, you know, detachable panels and floating carts, whatever it is

00:50:34   I hope that Apple can and I fully believe that they can

00:50:38   strike a good balance between

00:50:42   giving you the power that was normally available only on a desktop computer, but done in a way that

00:50:51   it doesn't force the iPad to be too complicated or too complex if you don't want it to be. Because

00:50:57   one of the greatest strengths of the iPad right now is that you're not forced to use Split View,

00:51:02   you're not forced to use Lightover. You can use iPad apps in full screen like they used to be when

00:51:07   when the iPad came out 10 years ago,

00:51:09   and the OS will never bother you.

00:51:12   They will never say, "Oh no, but please use split view."

00:51:14   No, it's not mandatory.

00:51:16   You can just use an iPad in full screen all the time

00:51:18   and it's fine.

00:51:19   So I hope that--

00:51:20   - I don't think they're getting rid of that.

00:51:21   - No, me neither. - I really don't.

00:51:22   I see your concern or the concern of other people.

00:51:26   Like I know why people might think it,

00:51:27   but like people that use the iPad a bunch

00:51:32   still will want to and still do use things,

00:51:36   use the device at this sort of time.

00:51:38   It's like the fact that in the Mac

00:51:39   you can have an app go full screen.

00:51:41   There are times where it makes a lot of sense to do it.

00:51:43   But yeah, I see why, I understand people's concern,

00:51:48   but I think that it's right to push forward.

00:51:51   And the reason I understand the concern is like,

00:51:54   iOS 12 pushed a bunch of people away from the iPad.

00:51:59   Right, or is it 11?

00:52:01   Which one was it?

00:52:02   - 11. - 11.

00:52:03   - Sorry, yeah, 11 pushed a bunch of people away.

00:52:05   because it got more complicated.

00:52:08   And my hope really is that we see with iOS 13

00:52:14   why this happened, right?

00:52:17   That like, well really it should have been last year,

00:52:20   it was supposed to be one year,

00:52:21   and then the next year they advanced it,

00:52:22   but they didn't for whatever reason,

00:52:24   they wanted to move things around.

00:52:26   So then when iOS 13 comes around,

00:52:28   like, oh, I see why this works this way now,

00:52:32   why multitasking is like this,

00:52:34   because we need to have this vastly more split apart complex system to enable all of these

00:52:44   windows to be moving around.

00:52:45   You know what I mean?

00:52:46   But I feel like maybe we just wait a little bit longer to get it.

00:52:52   Yeah, well let's see.

00:52:55   I want to quickly mention this idea of Sidecar as using the iPad as a display for the Mac.

00:53:02   and I'm just gonna quote what's in the 95 Mac report.

00:53:06   "The new feature called Sidecar internally

00:53:08   "can be accessed via a simple menu.

00:53:10   "This new menu will be opened by hovering

00:53:13   "over the green maximize button in a Mac app window

00:53:16   "for a split second.

00:53:17   "The menu will have options for making the window

00:53:19   "full screen, tiling and moving to external displays,

00:53:22   "including the user's iPads and external displays

00:53:25   "connected to the Mac."

00:53:28   So this idea of you have a Mac,

00:53:32   you have an iPad and you will be able to take one window

00:53:37   and say, put this window on my iPad

00:53:40   and use the iPad as a display.

00:53:41   It's really fascinating to me because, you know,

00:53:44   the, you know, a bunch of people say,

00:53:45   oh, Apple is going for Luna Display.

00:53:47   Luna Display is doomed.

00:53:48   Apple wants to let you use the iPad

00:53:50   as a full on external display for the Mac.

00:53:53   I have a bunch of questions here.

00:53:54   Main one being, is this just a continuity feature

00:53:58   in that you could take one window at a time

00:54:01   and put it on the iPad, or are they actually going for the full-on Luna display experience

00:54:07   in that the iPad becomes a secondary display that you can use in extended desktop mode

00:54:14   on Mac OS?

00:54:16   And I have a feeling, reading through this report, that it'll be a simplified version,

00:54:21   it'll be the first case of you take one window at a time and you put it on the iPad, which

00:54:28   is an external display, but I'm skeptical of the fact that... will you be able to hover

00:54:36   over to that display with the mouse and resize the window? Will you see the desktop underneath?

00:54:42   Will you be able to put any window that you want on there? Will you be able to put multiple

00:54:47   windows on the iPad's display? Personally, reading through this report, I believe that

00:54:53   Apple wants to just let you take one window and sort of put it on the iPad. And that's

00:55:00   it. But you will not be able to, I mean I would love it if it were possible, but I don't

00:55:05   think Apple wants to give you this kind of experience.

00:55:09   More to me, like that really good continuity demo.

00:55:13   Yeah.

00:55:14   Right? Where like, "Hey, you remember that thing continuity that we built? Well now it's

00:55:18   like you take the exact thing you were doing and you just put it onto your iPad and you

00:55:22   get up and walk away. Right.

00:55:24   Like it just feels like something that's an advancement to that.

00:55:28   I mean, if they did do this thing where you could use your iPad

00:55:32   as an extra display, like Luna Display is amazing.

00:55:35   But what Luna Display enables is the best thing.

00:55:37   And if Apple finds some way to do that and it's really good,

00:55:40   I mean, that will be great.

00:55:41   Right. Like it will be incredible for most people to just be able to do it.

00:55:44   But it seems unlikely.

00:55:47   It just to me feels unlikely that that they would.

00:55:51   I can't imagine Apple wanting to

00:55:55   relegate an iPad to just being a display for a Mac.

00:55:59   That feels like saying something about the device that I'm not sure they would

00:56:05   want to say, right? Where it's like, yeah, the iPad's super powerful,

00:56:10   but really it's just best if you use it as a second screen.

00:56:14   You know what? I feel like it's not doing enough to

00:56:19   show the power of the devices independently of each other, right?

00:56:22   Like if you're just like, oh, this is just good as another display.

00:56:24   That doesn't seem right to me, but I'm intrigued to find out.

00:56:28   All right. There was more.

00:56:30   There's more. But that's kind of like those things are all grouped together.

00:56:34   And then there's a couple of other little items that we wanted to talk about.

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00:57:59   So I wanted to very quickly mention one detail from the original 9to5Mac article.

00:58:05   Better multilingual support for keyboards and dictation.

00:58:09   Of course, I speak two languages. I've always won at Apple to get better at supporting multilingual features throughout iOS.

00:58:19   iOS has offered, since iOS 10, multilingual support in the software keyboard.

00:58:25   It's kind of counterintuitive the way that you enable the feature, but it works.

00:58:29   Dictation does not support multiple languages at the same time.

00:58:35   same time, Siri also does not support multiple languages at the same time.

00:58:40   Google does, and I believe it is time for Apple to enable seamless recognition of

00:58:48   multiple languages at the same time, both via dictation and Siri. This has been

00:58:54   the dream of mine for three years now, just being able to talk to

00:58:58   Siri either in Italian or in English. Right now I'm using Siri in English, but

00:59:04   just because it's easier for work to take screenshots and all of that,

00:59:08   also because the HomePod is not officially in Italy still. So a

00:59:13   multilingual series would be fantastic. Let me tell you man, Gboards

00:59:18   translate now. Have we spoken about this, that they added Google Translate to Gboard?

00:59:23   You mentioned it. Oh my god, it works so well. You just type in what you

00:59:28   need and then it immediately copies it to the clipboard and then

00:59:32   just paste it in and if you then copy some text from iMessages a little paste button appears next

00:59:39   to the translate thing so you just press it and it pastes the text in and just translates it back

00:59:43   for you. It's incredible. It's so good. It's just one of those things I was like wow Google you did

00:59:52   everything you possibly could for this right like they worked all the way up to the limits that

00:59:59   they're allowed within the framework that they're in. It's kind of mind-blowing how

01:00:03   well that works.

01:00:04   Yeah. So, fingers crossed, I'm going to be able to talk to my assistant in two languages.

01:00:10   We'll see. Last point before I share something interesting that I heard a few months ago.

01:00:18   Ooh, ooh, see, it's not just 9 to 5 Mac. We have stuff too, you know.

01:00:22   exclusive reveal. No, I want to talk about the 95-mic article also mentioned, just, you

01:00:31   know, almost half-handedly, that new Reminders app coming to iOS and MacOS. Of course, I

01:00:39   use Reminders, and I've been using Reminders for quite a long time at this point, I switched

01:00:44   last year, but I use Reminders not via the Reminders app, because it's terrible right

01:00:50   now, but via a Reminders client. So a third-party app called GoodTask, which is essentially a

01:00:57   different interface for the Reminders framework. Because just like you can have different

01:01:02   Calendar clients on iOS, you can have different Reminders clients. But I'm super happy to hear

01:01:09   that Apple is working on a new Reminders app which has been unchanged since iOS 7, I think, so

01:01:18   six years at this point. And I just hope that Apple is taking a look at apps like Good Task,

01:01:26   in this case, because it's the power user version of Reminders. But also things, I think,

01:01:31   you know, Culture Code, they did really interesting things with their app, you know,

01:01:38   from a design standpoint, sort of embracing the iOS design language and also the way that they

01:01:44   support external keyboards, but just the idea of just how you can visually...

01:01:52   It's a very tactile task manager, how you can touch and drag and move things around.

01:01:57   So, a few things I would like to see in reminders. Allow me to share a list with you,

01:02:02   Myke, and our listeners. Of course, a redesign, because, I mean, have you seen

01:02:06   Reminders, it's quite ugly, basically, and super slow to use.

01:02:14   I want to make sure that Apple does, and I think you agree with me on this point,

01:02:20   I want to see Apple do to Reminders what they did to Notes a few years ago, maybe even more.

01:02:26   Because Notes, the design was already kind of OK.

01:02:30   is in need of a, I think, better restructuring,

01:02:35   but the idea of take an existing app,

01:02:38   make it better for everybody.

01:02:40   It can still be used as a simple app,

01:02:43   but it's got so much functionality.

01:02:45   If you go look for it, in Notes you can have tables

01:02:50   and handwriting and links and attachments and cert,

01:02:53   like all these features, they're there if you seek them,

01:02:57   but if you don't, it's still simple and it's still Notes.

01:02:59   So that kind of treatment for reminders would be nice.

01:03:04   Integration with the calendar,

01:03:07   because people are using calendar events

01:03:09   and tasks at the same time.

01:03:11   Tagging, I would love to be able to tag my reminders

01:03:15   and create smart folders or saved searches,

01:03:18   column, whatever you want,

01:03:20   just in a way to organize my reminders

01:03:23   like I can organize my files,

01:03:26   because Apple already supports tagging in files.

01:03:29   I would love to do the same reminders.

01:03:31   File attachments, I should be able to attach a document

01:03:34   using files to a reminder,

01:03:37   because maybe I need to remind myself about a PDF

01:03:39   or about an image, and right now there's no way

01:03:42   to add attachments to reminders.

01:03:44   Better collaboration for iCloud users.

01:03:48   I wanna be able to share a reminders list with John

01:03:50   and assign things to John,

01:03:52   because I just love assigning things to John.

01:03:54   It's what I do.

01:03:55   I love it.

01:03:56   to be able to do this using reminders.

01:03:59   Better rescheduling.

01:04:03   Right now, good luck if you wanna change the date

01:04:06   of reminder in the Reminders app.

01:04:08   Of course, good task makes it easy

01:04:10   because it lets you create presets for dates

01:04:13   and start dates and due dates.

01:04:16   I wanna have faster rescheduling in reminders as well.

01:04:19   There's so many things here.

01:04:22   Natural language typing because, I mean, of course,

01:04:26   when I'm on an iPad and I want to create a reminder,

01:04:28   I should be able to say, you know,

01:04:30   buy a new iPad tomorrow at 3 p.m.

01:04:32   and have it be interpreted correctly.

01:04:35   Yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of really advanced

01:04:40   and esoteric views, esoteric features

01:04:43   that I would love to have.

01:04:44   Like, were you aware of the fact, Myke,

01:04:47   that on iOS you can create a reminder for any screen

01:04:52   that you see in an app?

01:04:54   You can create a reminder for an address.

01:04:56   - I remember this.

01:04:57   This was introduced ages ago, right?

01:04:59   Where you can ask Siri.

01:05:01   - Remind me about this.

01:05:03   And this, this portion of the command,

01:05:07   that can be anything.

01:05:08   It can be a photo.

01:05:09   It can be a location in maps.

01:05:12   It can be a website.

01:05:14   The problem is this is only possible

01:05:17   if you do this via voice.

01:05:18   That you gotta summon Siri and talk to Siri

01:05:21   to create these special reminders.

01:05:23   So a way to do this without Siri,

01:05:25   to create reminders for anything.

01:05:27   Reminders for app content is the best way

01:05:31   that I can describe it.

01:05:32   Yeah, and really, I would love to see finally, I guess,

01:05:38   integration between notes and reminders.

01:05:40   And you may ask how.

01:05:42   So I will point you to this teaser

01:05:45   that the folks at Agenda have released this week.

01:05:48   Agenda is a very peculiar note-taking app

01:05:50   that allows you to structure your notes on a timeline,

01:05:53   basically, they're bringing in reminders integration

01:05:56   in the future.

01:05:57   And what they showed in the video is what basically

01:06:00   I've been dreaming for ages,

01:06:02   and that I actually built myself last year

01:06:04   using JavaScript in drafts, almost,

01:06:08   the idea of you're typing in your notes,

01:06:12   and at some point in any line of text,

01:06:16   you can say, create a reminder for this.

01:06:18   Any line of text can become a reminder

01:06:21   that is linked to the Reminders app,

01:06:24   which is also linked to that line of text.

01:06:27   So this idea of combining a note,

01:06:30   any point of a note with a reminder, that is fascinating.

01:06:34   And you should watch the teaser video

01:06:36   that the agenda folks are doing.

01:06:37   I would love to see Apple doing the same

01:06:39   between notes and reminders.

01:06:40   But again, this is more esoteric, advanced feature.

01:06:43   Honestly, I would be happy with the redesign, tagging,

01:06:47   and some power user features.

01:06:50   I mean, at this point, anything would be better than what Reminders currently is.

01:06:53   So.

01:06:54   I want Apple to do to Reminders what they did to Notes.

01:06:59   Yeah.

01:07:01   Because if like they can make Reminders as competent a to-do

01:07:05   manager as they made Notes a note-taking application

01:07:09   when they switched in, what was it like, 9, iOS 9.

01:07:12   I would switch to Reminders.

01:07:15   Like if they can just give like that same kind of level of features

01:07:19   and reliability, then that's all I need, right?

01:07:23   Like I don't need a ton of stuff.

01:07:26   And then I would also then gain the system benefits.

01:07:29   I'm keen to see what they do there

01:07:31   and like how close do they get it to something like that?

01:07:34   Or do they just really kind of give a refresh to reminders

01:07:39   because that will obviously be one of the Marzipan apps.

01:07:42   I think any app on the Mac that looks like an iOS app

01:07:46   will be the first ones to move, you know,

01:07:48   notes, reminders, stuff like that, which were originally iOS apps that they brought back

01:07:53   to the Mac, right? Now they're going to bring them back to the Mars Japan or something,

01:07:57   I don't know, back to the future, something like that. Let's do a connected exclusive.

01:08:03   Yeah, so I want to go on the record with this because it's the season of rumors and it's

01:08:10   something that I heard from a couple of people a few months ago and I kind of, you know,

01:08:17   I wrote it off as like, I don't know about this.

01:08:21   But then I kept, I still thinking about it

01:08:26   and it's always in the back of my mind

01:08:28   and with this idea of the iPad becoming more powerful

01:08:31   and more like a desktop computer

01:08:34   and could be interesting.

01:08:36   So a few months ago, a couple of people

01:08:39   sort of mentioned to me just casually,

01:08:42   wouldn't it be funny if you could have

01:08:44   a mouse cursor on the iPad?

01:08:46   but as an accessibility feature.

01:08:50   And I thought that was a fascinating idea.

01:08:55   And my understanding of these conversations

01:08:58   was making, enabling mouse support on the iPad

01:09:03   as part of the assistive touch framework

01:09:08   of the accessibility features of iOS.

01:09:10   So assistive touch would be the little onscreen panel

01:09:13   that you get and that you can customize.

01:09:15   It's the virtual home button that people were using for ages,

01:09:20   back when the iPhones had physical home buttons,

01:09:23   and people that didn't want to break the home button,

01:09:25   or that had actually broken the button,

01:09:28   will use the virtual one.

01:09:30   And when you tap it, it expands and shows you features

01:09:32   that you can enable via touch,

01:09:34   like show me notification center, but without swiping.

01:09:36   So that kind of idea.

01:09:37   So this idea of you plug in a mouse and you get a cursor,

01:09:44   and you get a cursor that somehow is tied to accessibility, is an accessibility feature.

01:09:51   And I thought that was interesting and just for fun I actually bought a USB mouse from

01:09:56   Amazon to try it. I don't know, maybe...

01:10:00   There may have been an afternoon when me and Federico were both plugging many random mice

01:10:05   into our iPads.

01:10:07   Yes, because when Apple did, at the beginning of the year, the 12.2 beta, I thought maybe

01:10:13   it's hidden in this beta as an accessibility feature, but it was not. But then I started doing some research

01:10:20   around this idea of assistive touch and mouse cursors, and I learned that actually

01:10:27   it is already possible if you have the right

01:10:31   accessibility hardware to have

01:10:34   some kind of cursor on iOS.

01:10:40   There's a specialized accessibility hardware that you can buy and you

01:10:45   If you have physical or other kinds of motor impairments

01:10:49   When you plug it into an iOS device you get this little

01:10:52   Black dot that you can control and it moves on screen like a mouse cursor would move

01:10:59   This is already possible and has been possible for years. There's lots of videos on YouTube

01:11:04   There's lots of it. You know, they're usually like joysticks or trackballs

01:11:09   you know, different designs for different kinds of accessibility needs. So this is already possible.

01:11:15   And then I came across this device called the Amaneo BTI, which promised to be, and it was,

01:11:24   you know, this company, this Amaneo company, they showed this device at various trade shows

01:11:32   for accessibility hardware, it promised to be an adapter that lets you use any USB mouse with your

01:11:41   iPad. And I got really excited when I discovered this, and so I got in touch with a reseller with

01:11:47   a UK-based company that had a teaser page for the Amana LBTI, and that page, I think it was December,

01:11:54   it mentioned "available early 2019". I was like "oh", so I was like all connecting the dots, sort of

01:12:00   Charlie Day meme situation like, "See? It's USB mouse support is coming to the iPad. Here's

01:12:06   this company." But then I got in touch with this company and they were like, "Yeah, we're

01:12:10   still not available. It may become available in early 2019." But then I realized this Amaneo

01:12:19   BTI thing will tie in what's already possible for accessibility hardware, like joysticks

01:12:29   or trackballs. It'll just act as an adapter. But what I heard was something different.

01:12:35   What I heard was that without adapters, you will be able to use any USB mouse on your

01:12:42   iPad but as an accessibility device. And I think that kind of makes sense. The

01:12:49   idea of without having to buy specialized hardware, without having to

01:12:54   buy a joystick or an adapter, the iPad Pro has a USB-C port, so just plug in a

01:13:01   USB mouse and if you have physical impairments, if you have any other kinds

01:13:06   of motor impairments, just use the USB mouse in accessibility mode. And it

01:13:12   It wouldn't be, of course, the first time that Apple is enabling features

01:13:16   under the catch-all umbrella of accessibility.

01:13:19   Like, it totally would not surprise me

01:13:22   if mouse support eventually comes to the iPad,

01:13:26   but it's presented as an accessibility thing.

01:13:28   Like, that would make total sense to me

01:13:30   because of the message that Apple...

01:13:32   You know, Apple doesn't want to say,

01:13:34   "Well, the only way to use the iPad as a PC replacement

01:13:36   is to actually plug in a mouse,"

01:13:38   But they would say, if you need to have a different kind of input mechanism,

01:13:46   you can now use any USB-C mouse as an accessibility device.

01:13:50   That will make a lot of sense to me.

01:13:52   So it was something that I heard months ago.

01:13:56   I don't know if it'll happen.

01:14:00   It's fascinating to think about.

01:14:01   And again, as an accessibility thing, I think it will make a lot of sense to me.

01:14:07   I would like it. I would get great use out of it.

01:14:11   Right? Like it's, I've wanted trackpad support, um,

01:14:14   mouse support on the iPad for a while for ergonomic reasons, which,

01:14:19   you know, I think is a, uh, that is even in my opinion,

01:14:24   like a perfectly valid use of accessibility is ergonomics.

01:14:28   Like if you are someone like me who struggles with, uh,

01:14:31   RSI issues and stuff like that, it would,

01:14:35   it would make things a lot easier for me if I was able to,

01:14:39   even more frequently than I already can with the iPad,

01:14:42   also use another input device,

01:14:44   that would be amazing for me.

01:14:46   So I hope that this is gonna come to pass.

01:14:50   I think the fact that all of the building blocks

01:14:52   are already there makes it easier.

01:14:54   - Yeah. - Right, but I mean,

01:14:55   one is just AssistiveTouch in general,

01:14:57   but two, the fact that AssistiveTouch can be manipulated

01:15:01   to be used with these devices,

01:15:03   It feels like where there's smoke, there's fire kind of thing.

01:15:07   The fact that this stuff already exists and then you'd heard about the potential

01:15:10   for them to expand it out to kind of be available no matter what you plug in.

01:15:15   That is a that feels like a very possible and tantalizing idea to me.

01:15:20   It feels very possible because if it's already possible with special hardware.

01:15:26   Because I'm assuming that Apple's allowing that, right?

01:15:29   Like that could happen otherwise, right?

01:15:32   Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apple is allowing that and you need to, you know, it's a...

01:15:35   It's a whole thing.

01:15:36   You can buy all kinds of accessories they use. There's demos on YouTube, you know.

01:15:42   I saw a beautiful, like, excellent demo of a person that was using the complete suit of accessibility features,

01:15:51   like voiceover, and this person was in a wheelchair and they were using a joystick to control the iPhone,

01:15:58   the iPhone's interface using this black dot on screen that was acting like a cursor.

01:16:02   It was really like a testament to the accessibility features on iOS.

01:16:06   And I think why not make it even more inclusive

01:16:10   by saying you don't need to buy specific and

01:16:14   expensive hardware, just plug in a USB mouse. And if you want to use this special

01:16:18   accessibility mode that already exists, now you can

01:16:22   use your own hardware instead of buying specific adapters. That would make a lot of sense, actually.

01:16:26   actually. Yeah I think that that would be great. We'll see. Alright is there anything

01:16:32   more that you wanted to cover on this stuff? Not this stuff, I have a bunch of them. There's

01:16:38   more to come, we're gonna keep talking about iOS 13 but we wanted to close the show with

01:16:46   a gallery of hardware that I've been testing. Mail time here on connected, Federica's got

01:16:52   a bunch of stuff. Actually let me talk about one of my favorite mail time kind of situations

01:17:00   because I want to talk about Moo, the online print and design company. Moo offers a variety

01:17:05   of premium print products including business cards, postcards, notebooks and more and they

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01:17:33   business card, especially when you get all of the wonderful options that Moo have like

01:17:37   gold foiling or spot gloss which will allow your artwork to really stand out. They have

01:17:42   thick textured paper as well which I really love. I have cards made from them that are

01:17:48   two cards sandwiched with something in the middle so you can get a bit of colour pop

01:17:51   through I really love them. Super easy to design and order and they have all these little

01:17:56   special extra touches as well. It's really great to see your hard work on screen like

01:18:01   the work that you may have done to design but when you hold it in your hand it's even

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01:18:09   to help you make that great first impression whether you need business cards for an important

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01:18:18   or postcards. The notebooks, by the way, I love them. They're in softcover and hardcover.

01:18:23   They've done some really cool things if you're a notebook nerd like me. But one of them that

01:18:27   I'll explain is they have a hardcover notebook. And when you open the hardcover, the actual

01:18:33   cover is not on the front stuck to the page. So it opens out completely flat, which means

01:18:39   the book can go completely flat. It's really impressive the way that they do it. And it

01:18:44   It means that you don't have that awkward "oh the first page is slightly hovering in

01:18:49   the air" they do a really good job with their stuff.

01:18:52   The paper is fantastic, it's tough, tactile, the cloth covers are beautiful, the soft covers

01:18:56   are lightweight, they have sewn binding.

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01:19:11   Print 15. That is moo.com, m-o-o.com, and the promo code print, p-r-i-n-t, 1-5, Print

01:19:19   15. Our thanks to Moo for their support of this show and all of Relay FM. Moo, let's

01:19:24   get physical.

01:19:27   So what have you, what's going on over there? What have you been up to?

01:19:31   So I've been receiving review units for everything, basically. It's the season of iPad, accessories,

01:19:41   and wireless charging accessories. So, yeah, I've been testing a few different things.

01:19:48   Let's start from iPad keyboards. The Logitech sent me a review unit for this Linfoglio Pro,

01:19:57   which is the new iPad Pro case and keyboard that they announced a few weeks ago. I like

01:20:04   Honestly. It's the classic Logitech keyboard. It's got the classic feel of

01:20:11   the Logitech keys, from the old Logitech Create line. It's standard

01:20:18   Logitech keyboard feel, but it's designed for the new iPad Pro, and it's

01:20:25   designed for the fact that you can hold the pencil together with the iPad.

01:20:30   So, the keyboard itself is backlit, which is nice. It's got media keys to control music playback and go back to the home screen.

01:20:40   It does not have a Siri key, unlike another keyboard that I will mention shortly.

01:20:46   The keys feel good, they are consistent, as I mentioned, with previous Logitech keyboards.

01:20:53   what I really like about this one is the magnetic system that allows you to place

01:21:02   the iPad on this ridge that is in front of the keyboard to create

01:21:10   a typing angle and to sort of create a kickstand in the back of the iPad.

01:21:13   But when you connect the keyboard, when you attach the iPad magnetically,

01:21:19   only then does the keyboard turn on Bluetooth so that it pairs to the iPad.

01:21:25   And it's sort of a way to fake the kind of experience that you get with the smart connector,

01:21:29   in that the keyboard becomes active only when you need it,

01:21:35   only when the iPad is ready in typing mode.

01:21:38   And it's sort of like that, and it works really nicely, because to me it seems faster than

01:21:47   traditional Bluetooth pairing with other Bluetooth keyboards because the

01:21:52   the first action is not you pressing a key on the keyboard to say "hey wake up

01:21:57   and pair to the iPad again" you just need to place the iPad in typing mode and it

01:22:03   starts paying. That is clever. It's really well done. That is clever. It's less weird than like

01:22:08   space space space space space. Oh there we go. I noticed yesterday that there is

01:22:15   There is a small ridge in the back of the cover when it becomes a kickstand that sort of allows you to choose between two different typing angles.

01:22:26   I'm not sure if this is by design, I'm not sure if it is on the webpage, but if you pay attention there's a plastic ridge that if you move it just right you create a different, either steep or more gentle viewing angle. So that's nice.

01:22:42   They say type mode, sketch mode, read mode.

01:22:45   - Yeah, that's a different thing.

01:22:46   - Yeah, that's not it.

01:22:47   I can't see anything that suggests--

01:22:52   - Maybe it's just a byproduct of the fact

01:22:56   that the cover can be folded,

01:22:58   and therefore there's this plastic region,

01:23:00   and if you place the iPad just right,

01:23:03   the angle changes lightly,

01:23:06   but it's a welcome difference.

01:23:09   What I like about this keyboard

01:23:11   is that it's got both a globe key and a keyboard key.

01:23:16   So the keyboard key, it lets you quote unquote

01:23:19   eject the software keyboard so that you can see

01:23:22   the software keyboard while the iPad is still paired

01:23:25   with the physical one.

01:23:26   Why would you wanna do this?

01:23:28   To use custom keyboards on screen, the software ones.

01:23:31   So if you have a custom keyboard,

01:23:32   you can eject the keyboard and you can press the globe key

01:23:37   on your Logitech keyboard multiple times

01:23:40   until you cycle through all of your keyboards and you reach the custom one that you want to use.

01:23:44   So this combination of globe and keyboard key, if you like custom keyboards, quite useful.

01:23:50   It's got USB-C support, so you can charge it directly from the iPad if you want. You can use a cable and

01:23:58   charge the keyboard from the iPad because everything is USB-C.

01:24:02   I really like the special

01:24:05   protective flap for the Apple Pencil when everything is closed. It works as advertised,

01:24:10   it makes a nice clicking sound when you place the flap on top of the pencil. It's really well done and

01:24:18   this part of the case can also be sort of used as

01:24:25   as a kickstand for touch mode,

01:24:29   but it's again not by design and it's not stable.

01:24:34   But it works as advertised for protecting the pencil.

01:24:39   And finally I want to say that this keyboard works well on your lap.

01:24:44   It's not just for desk usage, it definitely works well on your lap.

01:24:48   It's got a solid base, the keyboard is rigid enough and feels good to use as an actual laptop.

01:24:55   But of course it doesn't have a customizable viewing angle, you cannot freely adjust the viewing angle.

01:25:02   something that you can do, Myke, on the bridge keyboard, which I just got today.

01:25:07   Don't talk to me, get out. I don't want to speak to you anymore. Leave me alone.

01:25:11   A final production unit.

01:25:12   Ugh, I'm so jealous.

01:25:14   I hope to be able to write about this on MacStory soon. I just got it a couple of hours ago.

01:25:19   I'm looking at it right now. I'm touching it right now. See? It's a bridge keyboard.

01:25:25   You could be lying. I don't know. You got it.

01:25:28   I sent you a picture. Come on.

01:25:30   - I know, but I'm building the audio world here.

01:25:33   There's nothing I can do about that.

01:25:35   - It's exactly what I expected.

01:25:37   It's a bridge keyboard optimized for the iPad Pro

01:25:39   with these new hinges that adapt

01:25:41   to the rounded edges of the iPad Pro.

01:25:44   It comes with the optional back cover

01:25:47   that attaches to the back of the iPad.

01:25:49   It's really nice.

01:25:52   It's a bridge keyboard.

01:25:53   I think it's got a different feel than the previous keys.

01:25:56   The texture of the keys is more,

01:25:59   is smoother and feels different to me. The big difference here from the Logitech keyboard,

01:26:04   it doesn't have a globe icon, but it's got a Siri key. So you can press and hold to use Siri,

01:26:12   either in voice or type to Siri mode, depending on your preferences. And now you have settings,

01:26:17   so this one has got Siri, it's backlit, it feels like a bridge keyboard. It's really nice,

01:26:22   it's space grey, looks beautiful with the iPad. The hinges, they feel good to me so far.

01:26:28   I want to see if they hold up well over time. It's very different from other keyboards in that

01:26:38   it's got this huge palm rest area where on a laptop that's where the trackpad would be.

01:26:46   Here you don't have a trackpad so it's a huge empty area where you can just rest your wrists

01:26:53   when using the keyboard.

01:26:54   And also it supports a media mode.

01:26:58   If you wanna watch a movie,

01:26:59   you can just flip the iPad with the screen facing out.

01:27:03   So with the back of the iPad facing the keyboard,

01:27:07   and yeah, you can watch a movie

01:27:10   and adjust the viewing angle of the screen.

01:27:12   And you can actually use the software keyboard in this mode,

01:27:16   but I tried, and if you try to type on the iPad screen

01:27:21   In Media Mode, everything wiggles, because you're not supposed to keep touching the screen all the time.

01:27:28   With the Bridge keyboard, you're supposed to use the physical keyboard.

01:27:30   But it's possible, and it looks kinda crazy when it's in that mode.

01:27:35   But I will let you know how this goes, but so far it's a Bridge keyboard, and it's for the new iPad Pro.

01:27:41   So, it looks great.

01:27:43   And I will probably have an article on Max Stories in the next few days, if I can get any more writing done.

01:27:50   If you have any questions, Myke, let me know.

01:27:53   I just want it, really.

01:27:56   Okay.

01:27:57   I will send you mine.

01:27:58   No, you won't, you liar.

01:28:00   No, I won't.

01:28:02   Finally, I've been also thanks to Nomad

01:28:07   for sending me review units of their AirPods case

01:28:12   and the base station with Apple Watch support.

01:28:16   So the base station is the wireless charging mat

01:28:19   that's got multiple Qi coils to charge multiple Qi devices

01:28:24   at the same time, but also an Apple Watch dock,

01:28:26   an MI5 certified Apple Watch dock.

01:28:28   - This seems to have been like one of the key products

01:28:32   that people were like, "Oh, I'll get this instead then."

01:28:35   - Yeah, and it confirms, at least to me,

01:28:39   just how much I would have liked AirPower

01:28:42   if it actually ever came out.

01:28:44   I think it's amazing that, you know,

01:28:47   I put one on my nightstand,

01:28:49   I put one on my desk.

01:28:51   It's awesome that before I go to sleep,

01:28:53   I can place my iPhone, I can place my AirPods,

01:28:56   and I can place the watch on the same accessory.

01:28:59   And everything charges at the same time.

01:29:01   There's small LEDs that tell you whether it's charging

01:29:04   or whether charging is complete.

01:29:06   It works well.

01:29:09   It's got the 10-watt Qi charging speed,

01:29:13   and it looks great because it's very elegant.

01:29:15   It's got this black leather pad, feels solid, it's not cheap at all, it feels like a premium accessory because it is.

01:29:26   And I guess the only downside would be that placing the AirPods with the wireless charging case works perfectly.

01:29:34   placing the iPhone, at least with the smart battery case, which I keep on my

01:29:41   iPhone all the time, requires a bit of attention. You gotta be careful with the

01:29:45   placement of the iPhone. So I'm getting used to that, but placing the

01:29:50   AirPods is more forgiving. But I think it's the idea of

01:29:56   putting all of your Apple devices, iPhone, AirPods and Apple Watch

01:30:00   on the same accessory, it's great. I love it. So it works really well. And the AirPods

01:30:09   case that they sent me, I'm not sure if I'm going to keep them. I think it's a leather

01:30:13   case to protect your AirPods case. It supports wireless charging, even though the leather

01:30:20   gets kind of warm. But that's also true for iPhones with leather cases when you use wireless

01:30:26   charging.

01:30:27   I like that.

01:30:28   The warm leather mic.

01:30:29   No, it's not that I don't like warm leather, I don't like that it heats up.

01:30:33   The heating up is always concerning to me.

01:30:36   Yeah, so but this leather case around my AirPods case feels a little too much.

01:30:44   And I'll probably use it for when I'm taking the AirPods to the beach, like when I don't want them to get dirty.

01:30:51   That makes it sound like you take them out on nice days, you know?

01:30:54   Like, "Come on AirPods, let's go to the beach today."

01:30:56   - Let's go for a walk. - You've been nice. You've been well behaved.

01:30:59   Yeah. When I take the AirPods to the beach because they deserve...

01:31:03   - A break. - You know, a break.

01:31:05   Yeah, probably just for protective reasons.

01:31:09   You know, I could use a case because I don't want my AirPods case to get all scratched up and dirty like the original one did.

01:31:18   - Does that really bother you, though? - Oh, it does. Yeah.

01:31:22   - Okay. - Yeah.

01:31:24   I'm trying to be extra careful,

01:31:26   like I'm cleaning my AirPods every day,

01:31:28   I'm cleaning the case every day,

01:31:29   because I really dislike what the first one looks like.

01:31:31   - It feels impossible to clean AirPods

01:31:34   to the level that everybody,

01:31:35   like that you would want them to be cleaned, right?

01:31:37   Like it just feels like you have them for two minutes

01:31:40   and you're never gonna get them back to how it was before.

01:31:42   - Yeah, yeah.

01:31:44   So that's about it for all the things

01:31:47   that I've been testing, multiple keyboards,

01:31:49   chargers, AirPods case, lots of writing to do.

01:31:55   If you want to find links to the stuff that we've spoken about today, you can go to relay.fm/connected/239.

01:32:02   I want to thank again our wonderful sponsors, Moo, Pingdom and Squarespace. But of course,

01:32:07   to you for listening, that's the most important thing. If you want to find Federico online,

01:32:10   you can go to maxstories.net where you find a lot of wonderful coverage this week about

01:32:14   the 10 year anniversary and a bunch of other articles. We spoke about the Calzones review

01:32:19   and there's gonna be some, I know you're gonna post some other stuff, you said you wanted

01:32:22   to maybe write something about the bridge keyboard so you want to go over and check

01:32:26   all that stuff out. But Federico will always share this stuff online, he's @Vitiici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:32:31   I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E, Steven is @ismh, send, what should we have people send Steven?

01:32:38   What would be a good... Riddles! Riddles, yes, just tweet @ismh, your favorite riddle

01:32:48   that sounds like that feels like it'll be fun for him to go through to give him some just some

01:32:54   some work yeah and and uh riddles that's what he needs so do that

01:33:00   uh we'll be back next week until then say goodbye federico

01:33:05   arriba de rchi what do i do now say adios oh adios