234: Photo Manage Spotify Out of Existence


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   - Hello and welcome to Connected Episode 234.

00:00:11   It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:13   Smile, Luna Display, and Squarespace.

00:00:17   I'm your host, Steven Hackett,

00:00:18   and I am joined, as always, by Mr. Federico Vittucci.

00:00:23   - Hello, Steven, how are you?

00:00:25   - I'm doing well.

00:00:26   Are you doing well today as well?

00:00:28   I am fine, yes.

00:00:30   You're good.

00:00:31   I have not fallen down a well.

00:00:32   That's good.

00:00:33   He's not doing that kind of well.

00:00:35   Oh!

00:00:36   Myke Early's here too.

00:00:37   Yo, what's up?

00:00:38   Took too long.

00:00:39   I had to jump in.

00:00:40   We're all here.

00:00:44   We all have a show document in front of us.

00:00:47   We're all recording.

00:00:48   It just feels like it's time to do a podcast.

00:00:50   Oh, wait, are we supposed to be recording?

00:00:52   Oh no!

00:00:53   Well, you're editing this week, so good luck.

00:00:57   Okay, we have some exciting news.

00:01:02   Big news.

00:01:03   To share with you.

00:01:04   Before we had Connected, we had another show called The Prompt, which was basically the

00:01:08   show but with a different name.

00:01:10   And The Prompt is coming back, is that the news?

00:01:12   Yeah, we're rebranding, we're not rebranding.

00:01:14   We did it, if you remember, we did an episode of this show which was pretending to be The

00:01:18   Prompt and also if you did ever want to listen to The Prompt, the entire back catalog of

00:01:22   that show still exists, it lives on.

00:01:25   but don't do that.

00:01:27   So we had a t-shirt during the prompt days

00:01:31   that said technology should be colorful.

00:01:33   And at least for me,

00:01:35   it was my favorite piece of merchandise we've ever done.

00:01:38   I think y'all agreed with that.

00:01:39   - Yep, I still wear mine.

00:01:41   - Yes, I do too.

00:01:43   And we have gone into the vault and recovered that artwork

00:01:47   and it is back out for a quick run over on Cotton Bureau.

00:01:52   So the first link in the show notes

00:01:55   is a link to our Kotburo page where we have this t-shirt in several different colors.

00:02:00   And you can do stickers that are like three inch by inch and a quarter that say technology

00:02:04   should be colorful.

00:02:06   This is something that means a lot to all of us.

00:02:09   We believe that technology is best when everyone can use it, when it's accessible to everybody.

00:02:14   It's kind of what this shirt means to us.

00:02:17   And in that spirit, we are donating a portion of the proceeds to AppCamp for Girls, which

00:02:22   is a wonderful organization in our community teaching girls to code and to develop applications.

00:02:30   It's great.

00:02:31   We know the people over there and we've been so honored to work with them for years now

00:02:35   supporting their cause and this is another chapter in that story with us and them.

00:02:40   So go check this out.

00:02:42   You have two weeks from today.

00:02:45   We hit launch on this t-shirt campaign literally right before we picked up the Skype call.

00:02:50   So you have, you got two weeks, go check it out.

00:02:53   - Stickers too.

00:02:54   - And stickers, yeah, stickers.

00:02:56   - So the t-shirts, we're doing like the pre-order campaign,

00:02:59   but the stickers, we have a limited number of.

00:03:02   Two pack of stickers with the technology

00:03:04   should be colorful on it.

00:03:05   Also, by the way, you can find the link in our show notes,

00:03:07   but you can also go to connectedmerch.com,

00:03:09   which is a domain that I just purchased.

00:03:12   So should be working by the time this episode goes up.

00:03:18   So there you go, connectivemerch.com for that merch.com.

00:03:23   I'm all into domain names when it comes to merchandising,

00:03:27   as you all know.

00:03:29   This T-shirt is amazing.

00:03:30   It's now in three colors.

00:03:31   It used to only be in black.

00:03:33   It's in black and gray and an indigo blue.

00:03:36   Men's and women's shirt sizes,

00:03:38   which we're very happy to do at Cotton Bureau.

00:03:41   Please go buy it because if you miss it,

00:03:44   we may never do it again.

00:03:46   It's been like five years since we did it last time, so you know.

00:03:50   But I think that this t-shirt is incredible and has a great message and it looks really

00:03:53   cool and it's got the, what is it, Chicago font.

00:03:57   So very, very cool.

00:03:59   So go get it, go get it, go get it.

00:04:02   Yes.

00:04:03   So we have a little bit of follow out, just things that we've done elsewhere that we

00:04:07   just wanted to share with everybody.

00:04:10   The first, I finally got around to doing a video on my YouTube channel that I've wanted

00:04:14   to do basically for three years since I started the channel.

00:04:18   A little bit about the history of the dog cow,

00:04:21   which I've written a lot about.

00:04:22   I have it tattooed on my right ankle,

00:04:23   which comes up in the video.

00:04:25   But sort of like this weird, quirky little chapter

00:04:28   of Apple history that has nothing to do with

00:04:30   beige computers or translucent iMacs.

00:04:34   Just sort of like a fun, feel good story.

00:04:37   And look, we all need a fun, feel good story.

00:04:39   So I think you would enjoy that video

00:04:42   if you haven't seen it already.

00:04:43   I think it's probably your best YouTube video so far.

00:04:46   I learned how to move things on the screen.

00:04:49   There's a couple of little Easter eggs and stuff

00:04:52   here and there.

00:04:53   That feels like a rite of passage

00:04:55   to do that kind of stuff.

00:04:56   I had to use motion for something,

00:04:58   so that was a real fun time.

00:05:01   It's like I opened this program, like, I

00:05:03   don't know what any of this does,

00:05:04   but I worked my way through it to do what I needed to do.

00:05:07   And yeah, I'm really proud of it.

00:05:09   Usually, by the time I upload a video,

00:05:12   I'm really kind of like frustrated.

00:05:13   It's like a very frustrating experience.

00:05:15   I like doing them, but sometimes I end up

00:05:17   wanting to pull my hair out because I can't

00:05:19   do what I want to do 'cause I'm still learning.

00:05:21   And this video, it came out exactly how I wanted.

00:05:25   I'm really happy with it.

00:05:26   - Yeah, you should be.

00:05:27   It's very good.

00:05:28   - Thank you.

00:05:29   We also have Federico's return to Evernote.

00:05:33   So this is something we've talked a little bit about

00:05:35   on the show, and Federico, you wrote this article

00:05:39   A couple of weeks ago originally for the Club Max Stories members, so if you're a Club Max

00:05:45   Stories member, which you should be, it's $5 a month and you get lots of extra awesome

00:05:50   content for the Max Stories team, including me.

00:05:52   For some reason you let me write your newsletter once a month.

00:05:54   I'm not sure if you've forgotten that somehow, but I'm still there.

00:05:58   Federico sometimes lets me write things, but it's all in white text, so you have to highlight

00:06:03   the text of every Club Max Stories newsletter.

00:06:07   And sometimes you get a little message from me.

00:06:10   You have to rub lemon juice on the email for it to come through.

00:06:13   Yeah, it's written in invisible ink.

00:06:14   Yeah.

00:06:15   But this was originally a Backstories Weekly article, but you've published it on the site

00:06:20   now.

00:06:21   And you kind of go through your transition back to Evernote and, I think really importantly,

00:06:26   some suggestions of how it can be better, because there are definitely places it seems

00:06:31   like they still have improvements to make.

00:06:34   But I was really encouraged to read this because, like the rest of us, I used Evernote for a

00:06:38   long time and I've been in Apple Notes for a while and I like Apple Notes, but I'm glad

00:06:43   that Evernote is still around, still making a good product, it seems like.

00:06:48   Yeah, you know, one of the problems with writing these stories is that people, I think they

00:06:55   tend to look at me and expect some kind of declaration of intent.

00:07:02   Like I hereby announce that I'm using Evernote as my note-taking app.

00:07:07   You read it from a scroll?

00:07:08   No, but like you get those tweets like every time I share.

00:07:13   I cannot share screenshots of my home screens anymore because if people see an icon on my

00:07:20   home screen they go like, "Oh, I thought you were using Bear as the note-taking."

00:07:24   And it's like I wrote about Bear two years ago because maybe these readers who discovered

00:07:30   one of my articles two days ago, but that article is actually from a couple of years

00:07:34   ago.

00:07:35   All people just keep in close track, right?

00:07:37   Yeah.

00:07:38   And also it's part of my job is constantly trying new things and reviewing those things

00:07:45   on the merits of the version that I'm evaluating.

00:07:49   I try not to get stuck using something because otherwise my job would suffer.

00:07:56   But also there are apps that I keep using for a long time.

00:08:00   And so it's a balance of there are apps that I've been using for 10 years almost.

00:08:05   And there are other apps that I switch back and forth just to understand how they're doing.

00:08:10   And Evernote is part of this process.

00:08:12   But I don't know if I will be using Evernote by the end of 2019.

00:08:18   Right now I moved everything back to Evernote and I'm using Apple Notes just for the collaboration

00:08:25   features.

00:08:26   Will it last? Will it stick? I don't know because there's a lot of things about Evernote that we talked about this with Myke that still drive me crazy in how they deal with the iOS version compared to the Mac.

00:08:42   So they have a new CEO and in January they made a promise about increasing and improving

00:08:49   the consistency between versions of Evernote.

00:08:52   So we'll see if they can keep up with that promise and we'll see how it goes.

00:08:57   Right now I wouldn't say that I'm officially announcing my switch to Evernote.

00:09:04   It's more of an experiment.

00:09:06   It's just an experiment.

00:09:08   So bear with me as I experiment in public.

00:09:11   It's cool to hear about this permanent experiment that you're doing.

00:09:14   That's what I heard anyway.

00:09:15   I mean, I don't know if I would have gone so far as the Evernote tattoo, but I mean,

00:09:20   it's your life, man.

00:09:21   It's your life.

00:09:22   Sure.

00:09:23   Sure.

00:09:24   Okay.

00:09:25   Yeah, it's great.

00:09:26   So Myke, you spoke about this, how you are using Evernote for one particular project

00:09:29   that you're working on.

00:09:31   And I've actually, I've realized this week that I sort of have the same need where I

00:09:36   over the last you know 222 years written a lot of Apple history articles and done

00:09:43   a lot of stuff in that space and I'm realizing that I'm losing track of what

00:09:47   I've written about and sometimes I have a lot of research about something that

00:09:51   never actually makes it into an article and that stuff right now is like

00:09:55   scattered to the wind across Dropbox folders and some in Apple Notes and a

00:10:00   lot just on like the 512 you know the history of blog posts and so I'm kind of

00:10:05   about looking at Evernote as a way to manage all that research and stuff that I've published,

00:10:09   stuff that I'm working on, as a way just to have it all in one place. And what did it for me was

00:10:15   I was looking back through this article again, as you were speaking, and the being able to clip,

00:10:22   you know, stuff from the web. So if I've written about this machine, just pull the whole article

00:10:27   into Evernote. So I have it all there. I don't have to worry about Oh, is it in WordPress on

00:10:32   on 512 pixels, is it in my archive of Mac stories posts,

00:10:35   did I write it for someplace else?

00:10:37   So I think I'm gonna look into this

00:10:39   for solving this particular problem.

00:10:40   I don't know if I'll move all my notes back into it,

00:10:43   but it does seem pretty ideally suited

00:10:45   for the task at hand, for me at least.

00:10:48   - 2019 is the year of app silos.

00:10:50   - Is it though?

00:10:53   - It is now.

00:10:54   - What is that?

00:10:55   - Okay.

00:10:56   - Don't worry about it.

00:10:56   - It's the year of Steven.

00:10:57   - Yeah.

00:10:58   - It's the year of Steven.

00:10:59   - It is the year of Steven.

00:11:01   - It's really not, it's the year of app silos.

00:11:03   - Yes.

00:11:04   - So, goodbye, year of Steven.

00:11:06   - We oddly knew you.

00:11:07   Goodbye, it was so nice to have you

00:11:09   for the time that we had you, but that time is over.

00:11:11   - Maybe Steven, you can become an app silo yourself.

00:11:13   - Yeah.

00:11:14   - So that will be the year of you still.

00:11:15   - The year of app Stevens.

00:11:17   - Wow.

00:11:18   - That's what I'm gonna go with.

00:11:19   - I have a tiny topic for your consideration, gentlemen.

00:11:23   - Okay. - Okay.

00:11:24   - I linked to this app the other day.

00:11:26   It's been out for a while and I just came across it

00:11:28   thanks to the Simple Beeb guys.

00:11:30   They have an Apple history podcast.

00:11:32   Somehow they let me in their Slack.

00:11:34   It's like the two of them and then me.

00:11:35   I don't know why I'm still in there.

00:11:36   - That's kind of hilarious.

00:11:38   - They haven't found a way to remove me yet.

00:11:41   But they were talking about it.

00:11:42   It's an iPad app called Banana Paint.

00:11:44   There's a link in the show notes.

00:11:46   And this developer basically rebuilt Mac Paint,

00:11:51   which is like this really ancient application

00:11:52   for the first Macintosh.

00:11:54   Rebuilt it for the iPad with like Apple pencil support.

00:11:58   It supports the screen resolutions.

00:12:01   It even supports saving and opening

00:12:04   original Mac Paint documents.

00:12:06   So if you have original documents in this format

00:12:09   on a floppy disk and you can get them onto your iPad,

00:12:12   this app says it can open them.

00:12:13   - That is incredible.

00:12:14   - Yeah, because the iPad Pro very famously

00:12:17   has a floppy disk.

00:12:19   - Yeah, jam it in there.

00:12:21   - All you need is a USB-C floppy drive.

00:12:23   It's no problem, you can get those.

00:12:25   Myke, remember that with WDC when somebody gave us that floppy, is it called a disk or

00:12:30   a drive? I don't know. Basically, I don't know what it was and we were holding that

00:12:35   strange artifact.

00:12:36   That was like, that was an actual big floppy disk, which were floppy, not hard plastic.

00:12:42   Like the 3.5, is it 3.5 inch floppies? They were hard plastic, right?

00:12:47   Yes.

00:12:48   Yes. And the other ones were big, not non-plastic.

00:12:52   The five and a quarter and the eight and a quarter were big.

00:12:55   So yeah, this app--

00:12:58   I opened it and I was like, wow, this is--

00:13:01   It's incredible.

00:13:02   The details are so good.

00:13:05   It interoperates with the photo picker.

00:13:08   So there's an example on my link in 5.0 pixels

00:13:10   where I brought a picture of myself in and made

00:13:12   a little piece of art, I guess.

00:13:14   Not really art.

00:13:15   But if you're looking for some nostalgia on your iPad,

00:13:19   this is a pretty good way to do it.

00:13:20   And the developer says that they are working on versions of MacWrite and MacDraw as well.

00:13:26   And MacWrite on the iPad, I was just going to say it, it could be the text editor to

00:13:31   beat.

00:13:32   You know, I know now the editorial is sort of maybe not around anymore.

00:13:36   Maybe we all move to this.

00:13:37   Matt>> That would definitely be a distraction free writing environment.

00:13:41   Like, do you get distracted by colors?

00:13:43   Well, they won't be there.

00:13:45   So you'll be fine.

00:13:47   So yeah, I do have some questions about how this made it through app review.

00:13:50   My assumption is the app reviewer is a 22 year old who has never seen original

00:13:55   Macintosh software.

00:13:56   So I have never seen a iPad app with,

00:14:01   uh, an open and save window. Yeah. In it, which this app has,

00:14:07   uh, it's just a little window pops up and you've got open to save dialogue boxes.

00:14:11   And when you save something, it saves it to a folder on the, on my iPad,

00:14:16   thing in files, right? Like that's where it saves it into a little directory.

00:14:21   So yeah it is very fun to play with and is definitely worth the money. What does it

00:14:27   cost? It's not much, right? It is $1.99 at the moment. For a limited time it says on

00:14:32   their website $1.99. It's so worth it. It was I think $4.99 and then maybe some prominent Apple

00:14:38   History blogger linked to them and they're on sale now. Yeah that would make

00:14:41   sense. This is worth buying just for the fun of it.

00:14:44   It's so much fun.

00:14:45   Yeah. Steven told me about it and I downloaded it

00:14:48   and we were both on the call together freaking out.

00:14:50   I just realized why it's called Banana Paint because they couldn't use Apple.

00:14:54   That's right. Oh, I'm very clever.

00:14:57   I hadn't worked that out the whole time.

00:14:59   I have been wondering why.

00:15:01   Me too. Why is it called Banana Paint?

00:15:04   Why is it called Banana? Yeah.

00:15:06   Yeah. There's a banana emoji, maybe.

00:15:09   I don't know, but there's a yellow banana in the top left corner of the screen where the apple should be.

00:15:13   So that even of itself is a little bit retro.

00:15:17   There are some Apple two clones floating around back in the day.

00:15:21   They're still around called bananas.

00:15:24   So it's people who were basically ripping off the Apple two and they named it the banana computer.

00:15:29   So even that is a joke.

00:15:30   Everything about this I love completely.

00:15:33   What I like is that specific fruit word.

00:15:37   the three of us say it incredibly differently.

00:15:40   - Okay, let's all compare.

00:15:41   So Myke and then Federico and then me.

00:15:44   - Oh God.

00:15:45   - Banana.

00:15:46   - Banana?

00:15:47   - Banana.

00:15:48   - So there is a gradient scale of the A's

00:15:51   where like from between me to Steven,

00:15:55   it's quite interesting to hear, I think.

00:15:56   Like the gradient of A really goes through three of us.

00:16:00   So there you go.

00:16:01   This is the, you can only get this unconnected.

00:16:04   You can't get this anywhere else.

00:16:06   We are rebranding as a linguistic podcast.

00:16:08   The Banana Show.

00:16:11   Yes.

00:16:11   From Banana FM.

00:16:15   Banana.

00:16:15   OK.

00:16:17   Banana.

00:16:17   All right, so we have a lot to talk about.

00:16:19   It's been a very busy--

00:16:21   We actually have a bunch of really serious topics

00:16:23   to get to today.

00:16:24   This was one of those weeks that on Monday,

00:16:26   I was like, oh, what are we going to talk about on the show?

00:16:27   And then we were rewriting the outline this morning.

00:16:30   Yeah.

00:16:31   But before we get to that, I want to tell you

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00:16:46   Copy and paste is a terrible way to keep track of things

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00:19:03   All right, so there's going to be an Apple event on March 25th, as it was foretold.

00:19:09   It's going to be at the Steve Jobs Theater at Apple Park.

00:19:12   The invitation is painfully obvious.

00:19:15   It says "It's Showtime" is the is basically what's printed.

00:19:21   I can't wait. The musical starring Eddy Cue and Phil Schiller is finally opening.

00:19:25   They're bringing Forstel back. He's producing.

00:19:28   The invitation also included a GIF, you know, of like the countdown film thing,

00:19:33   the 4321 with like the radio wipe or whatever it's called.

00:19:37   Sorry, film people. But you know what I'm talking about if you see it.

00:19:40   Stephen was very excited because they've used It's Showtime before, right?

00:19:47   On an invitation. What, which event was that?

00:19:50   It was the first time they showed off what would become Apple TV.

00:19:54   At the time it was called ITV,

00:19:57   which I'm glad they didn't go with.

00:19:59   This was in, I guess, the fall of 2006.

00:20:04   People forget the Apple TV sort of lived

00:20:07   in the iPhone shadow in 2007,

00:20:09   but they used it showtime then.

00:20:12   Apple sometimes plays with its history some,

00:20:15   but I mean, clearly this is what this is, right?

00:20:17   There's tons of reporting, the name is really obvious.

00:20:22   It's exciting, it's exciting that it's here.

00:20:25   So clearly the video service is taking center stage.

00:20:27   There was a report from Mark Gurman today kind of confirming that by and large,

00:20:32   but also stating news and potentially we haven't actually spoken about this,

00:20:37   but apparently Apple is working with Goldman Sachs to create a credit card.

00:20:43   The details of that.

00:20:46   There are like a million as to what that actually means.

00:20:49   I don't even know if I can accurately speculate

00:20:53   on what that project would look like.

00:20:55   - I feel the same way, although I did chuckle

00:20:58   that in his reporting,

00:21:02   Gurman says that the credit card project

00:21:03   is code named Project Cookie.

00:21:05   - Yeah. - And for some reason,

00:21:06   that really cracked me up.

00:21:08   - I'm not sure where that, and then we'll find out.

00:21:10   You know, it could just be a point system,

00:21:13   could be a literal credit card.

00:21:15   It's really difficult to try and work out

00:21:17   what that project could look like yet.

00:21:19   And there isn't a ton of detail other than the fact

00:21:21   that all the previous rumors were basically just saying,

00:21:24   this is happening,

00:21:25   it could mean a bunch of different things,

00:21:27   and Apple's gonna make some changes

00:21:28   to Apple Wallet effectively to integrate with this,

00:21:33   whatever it's gonna be.

00:21:34   - Sure, yeah, you gotta think they'll be

00:21:35   hand in hand somehow.

00:21:37   - But this is the by and large of the event itself.

00:21:41   Gherman does also talk about,

00:21:43   and this is something that's been spoken about

00:21:44   in other places before, but he's kinda confirming it,

00:21:49   Apple will not be launching their service with their own content.

00:21:53   Um, they're going to be launching the service with some deals from some other

00:21:57   providers. Uh, what that's going to look like, we don't know yet, but this,

00:22:01   this has basically been the known way of things for a while,

00:22:06   but Apple will be showing off probably some trailers and probably bringing out

00:22:11   some of the, uh,

00:22:12   a-listers that they have for their own original content.

00:22:15   It's just like a way to sell the whole prospect of things.

00:22:18   I do have a small complaint about tweets and opinions, hot takes that I've seen on Twitter

00:22:26   since the event was confirmed.

00:22:28   This is something that I probably mentioned before and knew Myke as well here and on upgrade,

00:22:34   but the idea of dismissing the fact that Apple is entering the TV show and movie streaming

00:22:41   space by saying "oh this is the same company that made carpool karaoke and planet of the

00:22:49   apps" especially. That just that means nothing because if you anybody's been keeping an eye

00:22:58   on what apple has been building and the how and where they have spent their money in the

00:23:05   the past couple of years, the talent that they've brought in to manage the new studios

00:23:11   that are creating this content for this upcoming service.

00:23:16   If you think that the Planet of the Apps analogy still holds any value considering the news

00:23:25   that we heard from Hollywood executives and other publications, I think you're really

00:23:31   misguided here.

00:23:34   may be a funny joke to say, oh, Planet of the Apps,

00:23:37   now they're making a TV show, original TV content.

00:23:42   But that really, it may as well be two different companies

00:23:45   at this point.

00:23:46   The company that made Planet of the Apps

00:23:48   and the company that hired and paid

00:23:50   for this original content, they're not the same.

00:23:54   But I keep seeing these tweets and I

00:23:55   keep seeing these opinions.

00:23:57   And I fear that we'll keep seeing more, especially

00:24:02   during the event.

00:24:03   because reasons, because people like to...

00:24:06   I don't know what it is about Apple fans

00:24:09   and not liking the idea,

00:24:12   but I've seen this thread of hot takes

00:24:16   of not liking the idea that Apple

00:24:18   is spending money on original content.

00:24:20   I don't know what it is, but I was--

00:24:22   - My theory, which people never like to hear,

00:24:25   but my theory for not everybody, but for many people,

00:24:29   they don't want their computer company

00:24:32   to become a different company.

00:24:34   Like we like Apple making technology.

00:24:36   Apple being a media company is like a different company.

00:24:40   And also you can ascribe a lot of the things

00:24:42   that people are unhappy with right now.

00:24:44   Like it's all pushing into the services stuff, right?

00:24:47   Like services is driving so much of the company's focus.

00:24:49   And what about this thing that I like

00:24:51   and that thing that I like?

00:24:52   And you know, it's like whenever people wanted the Mac Pro,

00:24:56   it's like, oh, why are they spending money doing this?

00:24:58   They should put those people on the Mac.

00:24:59   Like it's that, right?

00:25:00   Like it's that kind of feeling of the focus isn't where you want it to be.

00:25:05   And if something's not right, then you're like, well,

00:25:07   the company's focus is scattered.

00:25:09   So the idea of now becoming a content production

00:25:14   company only stretches that focus more.

00:25:17   So I think it makes people uncomfortable.

00:25:19   There should be a Venn diagram for people who idolize Steve

00:25:24   Jobs and people who complain about the modern Apple.

00:25:28   because I feel like most of these people,

00:25:30   they have this vision, this sort of idea of Apple

00:25:35   guided by a single person, by Steve Jobs at the helm,

00:25:41   directing every single choice that Apple makes,

00:25:45   and Apple hasn't been that company for a decade,

00:25:48   almost at this point, it could be argued.

00:25:50   I just think it's a bit frustrating to see

00:25:56   this interesting news, these events that are happening,

00:25:59   and I think it's a transformation of the company

00:26:02   being so quickly dismissed as,

00:26:04   "Oh yeah, they're making planner of the apps,

00:26:07   only it's a service."

00:26:09   I just don't get it.

00:26:09   - Some of these shows will be bad,

00:26:12   because that's just the way things are gonna go,

00:26:14   but I think some of them are gonna be really good.

00:26:16   I have, because as in typical upgrade fashion,

00:26:20   we're gonna be doing a draft next week.

00:26:22   So when pulling together a list,

00:26:25   I have also pulled together a list of just some of the names that they have attached

00:26:30   to Project. Would you like me to just list some of them?

00:26:32   Yes, please. Oprah Winfrey, Steve Correll, Jennifer Aniston,

00:26:36   JJ Abrams, Reese Witherspoon, Brie Larson, who's Captain Marvel, Jennifer Garner, Sara

00:26:41   Barry Ellis, Chris Evans, who is Captain America, Charlie Day, Rob McElhenney, Taika Waititi,

00:26:47   who directed, I'm just pulling out the Marvel ones because there's an interesting superhero

00:26:51   Taika Waititi directed Thor Ragnarok which is amazing, Jason Momoa who's Aquaman, Josh

00:26:58   Gadd, Tristan Bell, Stanley Tucci, Leslie Odom Jr., Daveed Diggs, M. Night Shyamalan,

00:27:03   Steven Spielberg, Octavia Spencer, Kumail Najini, and Kristen Wiig, Emily V. Gordon.

00:27:08   That is just some of the names confirmed for projects.

00:27:12   I think you made your point.

00:27:14   Yeah, but we would take your point more seriously if you were riding down an escalator while

00:27:18   giving it.

00:27:19   - Oh yeah, there he is.

00:27:21   - Yeah, your point is well made.

00:27:23   Some of this is going to be bad, right?

00:27:25   Netflix makes things that don't go anywhere

00:27:28   and they cancel them quietly.

00:27:30   That's part of this business, right?

00:27:31   Part of the media, in a way, is speculation, right?

00:27:35   It's like, oh, I think this will work.

00:27:37   I think people will like this,

00:27:39   but you don't know until it comes out.

00:27:40   And I think that those early shows

00:27:44   proved to Apple that, oh, we just can't put

00:27:46   EdiQ in a director chair and it work out.

00:27:48   we need to hire adults to come in and do this.

00:27:53   And they've done that and they've spent serious money.

00:27:55   I think they're deadly serious

00:27:57   about this content being good.

00:27:58   - Yeah, the people that they hired

00:28:00   were Jamie Ehrlich and Zach van Amburg.

00:28:02   They both worked at Sony

00:28:03   and were responsible for shows like Breaking Bad.

00:28:06   - Which was fairly popular, I guess.

00:28:10   I mean, it did okay.

00:28:11   - So I think basically the reason they have so many shows

00:28:16   is because they're hedging the bets, right?

00:28:18   They know that not all of it's going to be good and they also need to build a thing.

00:28:21   They're also buying movies and also the rumour is that they're going to buy some back catalogue

00:28:27   content to try and fill it out.

00:28:29   I'm most intrigued about how they're going to make that work because that doesn't seem

00:28:32   likely to me but it depends who they're going to buy it from or what the money is.

00:28:35   So there's a lot of stuff.

00:28:37   There's going to be a lot of conversation about this over the next few weeks.

00:28:42   If this is of any interest to you, don't listen to Upgrade.

00:28:47   We do a segment called Upstream every single week where we talk about this stuff and we've

00:28:50   been doing it for like over a year.

00:28:53   So we have a lot, because Jason is very clued into this type of stuff, right, with the incomparable.

00:28:59   And I also just find any kind of like big business dealings somewhat interesting.

00:29:04   So there is a lot going on there.

00:29:06   There's going to be a lot of celebrities on stage and a lot of TV executives.

00:29:09   Oh, this is my warning to connected listeners.

00:29:14   This Apple event is not going to be like normal Apple events.

00:29:18   It's going to feel very different.

00:29:20   It's probably going to be pretty boring.

00:29:24   Do you remember that education event they did last March?

00:29:27   It's probably going to feel like that one.

00:29:30   And or a combination of when they introduced Apple Music and brought Drake on stage.

00:29:35   When I consider it very unlikely that we'll see hardware, right?

00:29:38   Like it doesn't seem like that's going to happen.

00:29:40   and most of the stuff that they announce is probably not going to be out for a while.

00:29:44   So it's going to be a lot of services stuff.

00:29:46   It will be, I think it will be interesting, but set your expectations going in, right?

00:29:52   Only in the Apple community can you get people who are upset that they get surprise appearances

00:29:57   by Drake and Lana Del Rey.

00:29:59   Like everybody else would be ecstatic.

00:30:02   It's like if Tim Cook came on stage at a Drake concert, it probably wouldn't be what those

00:30:06   people wanted either, right?

00:30:07   Ah, but I mean, get in touch with reality.

00:30:09   seeing drake and lana the ray on stage that's pretty awesome like why would you it is worth

00:30:14   remembering though federico that that was a up until that point a very boring wwdc

00:30:19   i just feel like it's it's a bit sad that oh no all apple events must be about technology and

00:30:25   programming like i mean lighten up a little that's all i'm saying it was wwdc though i mean

00:30:30   yeah that was the wrong that was the wrong venue for that announcement but that announcement would

00:30:35   would have been totally fine as a standalone thing. If that was in September, no problem,

00:30:39   right, to have drink. It was also the WBC that lasted like three hours. It was the longest one

00:30:44   in the books, I think, and so people were just like, you know, peeing in cups and stuff, trying

00:30:48   to get out of there. I still think they should lighten up a little and enjoy the moment, but

00:30:51   just me. Not everyone is as hip as you are. I'm not hip, I'm just, I'm just, you are. Oh,

00:30:56   I'm a man of the people. Yeah, you're a hip person of the people. So, we're actually gonna do

00:31:03   predictions next week with some stakes involved. So we're gonna be picking in true connected style

00:31:13   the way that we pick kind of our yearly predictions thing. So the connected rules that we have to

00:31:20   state everything and everything needs to be true that's stated no half points. We'll do three picks,

00:31:25   two regular picks, one risky pick. Getting your risky pick wrong you lose one of your upper points

00:31:30   It's like real serious rules that we have here.

00:31:33   But Federico came up with the idea,

00:31:35   which is the reason we're doing this,

00:31:36   because it's brilliant.

00:31:37   Whoever wins the picks next week gets to go first

00:31:42   at WWDC in the round robin.

00:31:44   - Yeah, and gets to pick the order of the round robin.

00:31:49   - Oh yeah, you get to pick the whole order.

00:31:52   And that's where the trophies are.

00:31:54   - These are the official, you could say,

00:31:56   WWDC prediction qualifiers.

00:31:59   - You could say that. - That we're doing.

00:32:00   I like that. Now that's good.

00:32:03   Here's the thing though.

00:32:04   How do we decide the round robin order for next week?

00:32:07   Oldest first.

00:32:08   That's not going to happen.

00:32:09   I think we should do a random number generator between now and then.

00:32:12   Or we do the winners of WBC last year or the iPhone event or something.

00:32:18   Yearly picks.

00:32:20   I thought about this, but then it was kind of like what predictions count.

00:32:24   Yeah. Right. So like, no, but like, do we do WBC? Do we do September?

00:32:29   do we do the year? So I figured let's just start with random number generator.

00:32:34   Okay, random number. I think that's fine.

00:32:36   So one, two, three, is that what we're thinking?

00:32:39   Yeah, we'll each pick a number and then we'll do that. We don't need to do that right now,

00:32:44   we can definitely leave that at four.

00:32:45   Oh, you want to think about it? No, because I want to pick three. I really like the number

00:32:49   three.

00:32:50   Wait, that's not how random number generators work.

00:32:52   Well no, but each of us pick a number and then the random number generator chooses from

00:32:56   those numbers.

00:32:57   Exactly.

00:32:58   random.org, as you do, and we pick from that.

00:33:03   But we'll do that later. - Oh, can I pick any number?

00:33:04   Then my number will be 23.

00:33:06   - Well, no, because then we have to do it as a scale

00:33:08   between one and 23, and if we all pick one number,

00:33:11   we can be waiting-- - Can you just put in

00:33:12   three numbers, three arbitrary numbers?

00:33:14   - I don't know, again, this is why we shouldn't be doing

00:33:16   this right now, because this point is not exciting

00:33:20   for people, so we will do a random number,

00:33:23   generate a drawing between now and then,

00:33:25   we'll get somebody to adjudicate to make sure

00:33:27   it's all above board. Yeah, I think that should be Jason. Okay, so Jason now can do the random

00:33:32   number generation for us. Okay. Okay. If he will agree. I don't know if he's agreed to this.

00:33:37   I think he has. Okay. I don't think he knows about it until he hears this, but I'm sure he'll be

00:33:42   fine. It's not much of an imposition really, but we'll see. No, I mean, you know, it's only

00:33:47   gonna take a couple of hours probably to tally the results. Yeah, we want real scientific testing.

00:33:55   - Yeah, so yeah, it's exciting to have an Apple event.

00:33:59   I agree with you guys that it's going to be different

00:34:02   than even past March events,

00:34:04   which have always been sort of strange, right?

00:34:06   If you think about the last several years,

00:34:08   we had the one in Chicago, which I actually really liked.

00:34:10   I liked that they did it in the high school

00:34:11   and it was themed and I liked that it was cool and different.

00:34:14   - I didn't watch that one.

00:34:16   I was on a plane and--

00:34:17   - You were on a plane.

00:34:19   - I just, I know.

00:34:20   And just never-- - Myke's on a plane.

00:34:22   - Watched it.

00:34:23   What is happening?

00:34:23   I just decided to never watch it

00:34:25   because it didn't really seem like

00:34:27   it was necessary after the fact.

00:34:30   - I mean, it could have been a press release,

00:34:32   but it didn't even.

00:34:33   But you've had things like the 9.7 inch iPad Pro,

00:34:36   the iPhone SE, there have been some weird March releases

00:34:41   and this is going to be even different from all that

00:34:44   because a lot of these reports say

00:34:46   there's going to be no hardware

00:34:48   and maybe there is and maybe there won't be.

00:34:51   we'll let the predictions speak to that next week,

00:34:54   but I'm excited to see how Apple acts

00:34:58   and does its thing in this new context,

00:35:00   and that'll be interesting to watch.

00:35:02   - Yep.

00:35:03   - Okay, we are going to start a new series here in a second.

00:35:08   Federico had this great idea for a Connected mini series,

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00:37:37   So here on Connected, we often talk about apps and we discuss how we would like apps

00:37:45   to be better on iOS, especially built-in apps made by Apple.

00:37:49   And every year before WWDC, we wish for changes to files or to mail or, if for me, to reminders.

00:37:57   And of course, that never happened, but that's a different problem.

00:38:00   But I had the idea that while Apple is still making apps, everybody is observing how, as

00:38:07   As we mentioned a few minutes ago, Apple is becoming a services company and is arguably

00:38:12   already is a services company today.

00:38:14   It's not becoming one.

00:38:16   It's just growing that aspect of the business.

00:38:18   But we don't get to discuss actual improvements to services as often as we discuss

00:38:26   improvements to apps, to the clients to use those services.

00:38:29   And I thought maybe we should actually talk about the services themselves and discuss

00:38:35   how we would like them to be better and to change,

00:38:38   not as apps that we use as icons on our home screens,

00:38:42   but as actual services that are ever changing

00:38:45   and available on multiple devices.

00:38:46   And so I thought maybe if we do this mini series,

00:38:50   we could start today with Apple Music,

00:38:52   which is arguably the more popular

00:38:54   of all the services that Apple has.

00:38:56   And then in the future, we could cover Apple News

00:38:58   or Apple TV, whatever it's gonna be called.

00:39:00   We could talk about the App Store

00:39:02   and we could talk about iCloud.

00:39:02   - And I guess this is all leading up to WWDC, right?

00:39:05   would try and knock some of these off before then.

00:39:07   - Yeah, exactly.

00:39:08   So that was my thought.

00:39:10   And if your guys are okay with it,

00:39:13   I would like to start with Apple Music.

00:39:15   - Yeah.

00:39:15   - Because it's, they have, I think,

00:39:18   more than 50 million members at this point.

00:39:21   And while I don't think listening to music

00:39:25   can be reinvented, there's just so much you can do

00:39:28   about the fact that you're searching for a song

00:39:31   or listening to a song.

00:39:32   I think the service component and how that package is presented to customers can be improved.

00:39:38   And there's a bunch of different ways that I would like to discuss.

00:39:41   The first one that I have in mind, something that I was, you know, I've been looking at services like Tidal and Deezer, for example.

00:39:51   These music streaming services that for a while they've been offering a more expensive option.

00:39:56   So, you know, Apple being Apple services company, they like to grow the revenue.

00:40:02   I would be intrigued to see a more expensive tier to listen to high-resolution music on Apple Music.

00:40:11   Tidal has Tidal Hi-Fi, and these are, I think it's also called these are Hi-Fi,

00:40:17   but essentially a Hi-Fi version of Apple Music to listen to, well, some people would call them lossless,

00:40:25   Other people would object that definition.

00:40:28   But the idea is to listen to higher quality music files

00:40:32   when streaming from Apple Music.

00:40:34   And you could ask for double the price, for example.

00:40:37   So some context here.

00:40:39   Tidal, they just rolled out support for MQA streaming.

00:40:43   MQA is essentially a package around the FLAC format

00:40:51   that essentially the MQA company basically argues that it's superior to pristine FLAC files for a variety of reasons.

00:41:04   They argue that MQA files go through this authorization process from artists.

00:41:12   Some people think that it's just fancier DRM, but the fact is Tidal offers both traditional lossless

00:41:20   or high resolution audio and MQA.

00:41:22   And MQA is also becoming popular on Android devices.

00:41:25   I think the LG, I'm gonna get the name wrong,

00:41:29   but a bunch of LG phones and other Android devices,

00:41:31   they support MQA.

00:41:33   So it's a thing and people pay for it.

00:41:35   And Tidal iFi has been around for a couple of years.

00:41:38   And as I mentioned, there's also Deezer

00:41:40   as a high resolution version.

00:41:42   And there's also another service

00:41:45   that I cannot remember the name

00:41:46   because it was a weird name and I'm terrible with names.

00:41:50   But anyway, the main point being,

00:41:51   let's assume that Apple launches a more expensive,

00:41:54   high resolution audio version of Apple Music

00:41:57   that lets you listen to theoretically lossless

00:42:00   or studio quality, high fidelity versions of songs.

00:42:04   How does this tie into revenue for Apple?

00:42:08   So obviously the first point would be they make more money

00:42:12   because they could ask for $20

00:42:14   instead of $10 a month for Apple Music.

00:42:17   But then what happens to the actual listening?

00:42:19   you're still gonna listen through Beats headphones or AirPods or HomePods.

00:42:24   Those are not exactly Hi-Fi devices.

00:42:27   So my theory and for the purpose of also this section, something that I would like to discuss is

00:42:35   Apple is rumored to be working on new over-ear wireless headphones.

00:42:41   HeadPods. HeadPods.

00:42:42   And they're also working on new AirPods.

00:42:44   And of course, they also have the HomePod.

00:42:48   So I was wondering, there are two competing standards for high-resolution streaming of music via Bluetooth.

00:43:00   You have apt-xHD, which is owned by Qualcomm and is used on a bunch of Android devices,

00:43:07   and you have LDAC, which is made by Sony and is actually supported by the Sony headphones that I do.

00:43:14   do. Now, by default, iOS devices and the Mac use SBC or AAC as the codec for

00:43:24   wireless audio compression, which is good enough. There's articles about this if you

00:43:30   Google for Bluetooth audio codecs, AAC, aptX HD and LDAC, but my theory is I

00:43:37   I don't see Apple adopting aptX HD Band.com.

00:43:41   No way.

00:43:42   I don't see Apple adopting LDAC by Sony.

00:43:47   No.

00:43:48   I do see Apple making a new high res codec

00:43:52   as an evolution of AAC

00:43:56   built on top of their W series chips.

00:44:00   And I could see this new codec being built into the new headphones

00:44:05   phones they're working on tied into this more expensive tier for Apple Music and

00:44:11   somehow it could retroactively be brought to the HomePod. That would be my

00:44:17   working theory but I don't know. I'm mostly interested in the idea of Apple

00:44:22   being able to ask for more money and yes there's a they already have the Apple in

00:44:27   the chat room they're pointing out that Apple already has a high-res wireless

00:44:31   It's an ALAC, but I think it would be interesting to see if Apple can maybe launch something

00:44:38   new built on top of the new W series chips that they have.

00:44:42   Apple lossless is old, right?

00:44:45   It's a relatively old codec.

00:44:46   So that might be something that's better for streaming services today.

00:44:50   Especially for streaming services today and to stream audio to tiny devices like AirPods

00:44:57   or you know headphones and all that kind of stuff that was not around 10 years ago.

00:45:02   But I'm more interested in the idea of Apple asking for more money on the services side,

00:45:09   so a more expensive Apple Music tier and combining that with selling hardware,

00:45:13   which is what they're known for. What do you guys think?

00:45:15   Let me ask you, did you, when you come up with this idea, did you start with the headpods and

00:45:22   work backwards? No, I started with the service.

00:45:25   Okay, so you started by thinking they should do higher bitrate streaming.

00:45:30   Oh, that could actually tie into the headphones.

00:45:33   Yes, that was my process. I started with the service side because I was researching Tidal and Deezer iFi.

00:45:41   And then I realized that Apple already, you know, for the iTunes store, they launched the Master for iTunes a few years ago,

00:45:49   which is not exactly high fidelity or studio quality,

00:45:53   but it still shows an intent of offering higher quality

00:45:58   music for purchase.

00:46:00   And so I thought, what if they brought back that intention

00:46:03   of offering high quality music and go beyond the MP3

00:46:07   and coding that they're using now for Apple Music

00:46:09   and actually copying what title and these are doing

00:46:11   and offering a high-fi version of Apple Music.

00:46:14   And so my main idea was asking for more money

00:46:18   making more money off of Apple Music by offering a Hi-Fi version. And then I thought maybe it could

00:46:25   be tied to hardware, but the main theory was related to services and making more money from

00:46:30   Apple Music. Yeah, because this is like, I think it was like, I don't know if people want this,

00:46:36   But the idea of having a higher tier makes sense to me. Like having an Apple Music Premium tier,

00:46:48   which includes this and there may be some like Apple Music Sessions audio which is mixed in this

00:46:56   special way and you can only get like the Session album from this artist right that they had to come

00:47:01   in and record something if you are Apple Music Premium and it's mixed for HomePod and all

00:47:07   that kind of stuff, right? Like, I can imagine it. I just don't know how many people would

00:47:16   want it, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't do it. I am just not sure what the market,

00:47:21   like how big a market this is. But my thinking would be like, they did the HomePod though,

00:47:30   right? And the HomePod is way too expensive compared to its competitors and way too heavily

00:47:37   focused on "listen how good our music is" compared to the competitive products which does fit in with

00:47:45   Apple's kind of like history in this arena. So I, you know, so like you know you're

00:47:52   I don't know if you if you just gave me this idea in one sentence if I would come along with you on

00:47:59   this ride, but listening to you explain it and talking about it, it's like okay, it

00:48:03   seems more plausible to me.

00:48:06   Yeah, I don't know, the idea would be that it's a niche, but it's an expensive niche and

00:48:10   Apple already has higher quality files on iTunes, so why not also put them on

00:48:17   Apple Music and charge for them. But yeah, I also see why, you know, most people don't

00:48:23   care about this stuff because they just want to stream content, but then again, you

00:48:27   you know, Tidal gets good press every time they roll out improvements to Hi-Fi and arguably

00:48:33   it's become one of the distinctive features about Tidal.

00:48:37   So in any case, the second idea that I had and that I wanted to discuss is new ways for

00:48:47   artists to monetize, this is an ugly word but bear with me, to monetize fans and the

00:48:55   community and their audience inside of Apple Music. So not a social network, I don't want

00:49:01   Apple to make any more connect or ping or whatever.

00:49:04   Ping too.

00:49:05   No, not a social network. I think it would be awesome if, as a fan, I could buy merchandise

00:49:14   or I could buy concert tickets or I could get access to exclusive content like acoustic

00:49:21   jam sessions or exclusive concerts like Spotify, for example, as Spotify sessions, to have

00:49:29   all of this extra stuff from my favorite artists inside of Apple Music.

00:49:34   And of course, Apple could take a cut from these transactions, but it could enable that

00:49:40   kind of direct artist-fan relationship that is otherwise left to Google and discovering

00:49:47   website of your favorite artists or following them on Twitter or Instagram.

00:49:52   It's more manual work.

00:49:54   Whereas I think it would be nice to have that integrated experience inside of Apple Music

00:50:00   to trust Apple with your transaction.

00:50:02   So your credit card details would be managed by Apple.

00:50:06   You could use Apple Pay, which would be perfect to buy physical products and have them shipped

00:50:11   to your home.

00:50:13   But the idea of, I'm paying for streaming, but actually artists, they make the most money

00:50:20   from selling additional stuff to their fans.

00:50:23   They sell concert tickets, they sell merchandise, they sell extras.

00:50:27   I went, for example, I bought for my girlfriend last year a VIP concert ticket to see Justin

00:50:35   Timberlake as a birthday gift.

00:50:37   And you get all that extra stuff as part of the experience, and that is how artists can

00:50:42   make money these days by selling new concert tickets with multiple tiers. So you get merchandise,

00:50:48   you get posters, you get, you know, all that kind of stuff. And to have all of this into Apple Music

00:50:53   in the same package, in the same product that you use to listen to music every day, you would have

00:51:00   that complete package of it's digital but it's also physical in the sense that you can use Apple Music

00:51:06   as a first step to then go to a concert or buy merchandise or download extra music from

00:51:14   your favorite artist.

00:51:15   I think a bunch of services tried this before.

00:51:20   Beats Music years ago had something similar in that there were some merchandise links.

00:51:25   Spotify has some merchandise sections for some artists.

00:51:29   And of course, there's been other dedicated utilities to sort of automatically scan your

00:51:37   music library and associate that artist with websites and social profiles, that kind of

00:51:44   stuff.

00:51:45   But I think if Apple could do it in a single product with an artist's dashboard, I knew

00:51:50   as a fan would see this sort of store for your favorite artists.

00:51:53   I think that would be pretty awesome.

00:51:55   I think this makes a ton of sense.

00:51:58   And this is what I wanted Apple Music Connect to become.

00:52:03   When I saw that, I was like, "Oh, this is starting out with sort of a weird private

00:52:07   Twitter for musicians or something?"

00:52:09   And then it got expanded and then it went away.

00:52:14   And I have this funny thing of finding out about a concert about two days after it happens.

00:52:19   And if I could, in Apple Music, say, "Hey, I want to get updates from this band and this

00:52:23   this band and this band, but not these others,

00:52:25   and have all that surface for me

00:52:28   in the Apple Music interface,

00:52:29   what it does is it turns Apple Music

00:52:32   from just a music streaming service

00:52:33   to a full experience.

00:52:35   You've gotta think that is in line

00:52:38   with what Apple wants out of this sort of thing,

00:52:40   because if they do this,

00:52:43   certainly Spotify and others would come along as well,

00:52:46   but it does make Apple Music more sticky,

00:52:49   and it gives, if it were to take off,

00:52:52   it would give artists a reason to hang around, right?

00:52:56   Like with Connect, what upside was there?

00:53:00   Why would they share just an Apple Music

00:53:02   where they could just tweet about it

00:53:03   or put it on Instagram or someplace else?

00:53:06   But if you enabled all of these layers

00:53:08   like you're talking about, it becomes this sort of world

00:53:11   in which artists and their fans can stay connected,

00:53:15   and I think that'd be really cool.

00:53:17   Like, I would love this.

00:53:21   And my final idea is more of a frustration that I have right now with Apple Music,

00:53:28   that I would like to see done better because there's so much more potential.

00:53:32   I would like the Apple Music service to reorganize its editorial and curated sections and content that they make.

00:53:41   So I don't know if you've noticed, but in recent months Apple started

00:53:46   featuring publishing these mini interviews with artists whenever they release a new album.

00:53:55   You've probably seen this, they are like P.U.N.A segments.

00:53:59   Where?

00:54:00   They are available only in the description field of an album.

00:54:07   So if you go to an album, you see a string of text and if you tap "View More" it expands

00:54:15   into this long page of questions and answers and it's like I can see how you have the right idea,

00:54:24   it's awesome, you have interviews where an artist can go into more detail about each track or the

00:54:31   theme behind it. I found one where it's just like a description of every song on the album.

00:54:38   Okay I'll put a link in the show notes to this specific album that I found just as an example

00:54:44   in case you've never seen it.

00:54:45   And it's available as a block of rich text in the description of an album.

00:54:51   And Apple has been doing this for months for a lot of albums

00:54:55   and for a lot of different sections of Apple Music.

00:55:00   And it's mostly a hack, really.

00:55:03   You're using the description field to embed this curated content

00:55:07   that somebody worked on in your editorial team.

00:55:11   And I think all of this should be formatted more nicely, should be embedded not in the description field of an album,

00:55:21   but should be its own section in the album page or the artist page.

00:55:25   And you can go beyond this stuff. Again, I don't know if you know, but Beats 1 is still going on.

00:55:32   And what drives me crazy is that not only is Beats 1 as undiscoverable as it was four years ago at this point,

00:55:42   but there's still not a good way to view a daily schedule on the iPhone and to program your listening to say,

00:55:52   "I want to be notified when this show is on the air." There's still not a calendar view.

00:55:57   But what's even worse is that on Beats 1 they do these really good interviews with artists and

00:56:04   these listening sessions where they go into more detail about a new release.

00:56:08   And all of this stuff is basically non-discoverable in Apple Music unless you know where you're

00:56:13   looking. And it's usually not part of the artist page or the album page. Everything needs to be

00:56:19   restructured and linked together and it needs to be linkable by people. I need to be able to copy

00:56:26   a link and share it and somebody else who clicks on this link needs to be able

00:56:31   to go to a web page if they don't have Apple Music installed and see this

00:56:35   content on the web as a preview. It's not hard to do. People figured out

00:56:41   the World Wide Web 30 years ago and Apple has these hacks upon hacks of

00:56:47   using rich text for interviews in the description field of an album and not

00:56:53   linking to their own interviews and forcing you to follow them on Twitter to

00:56:58   know that Zane Lowe interviewed Churchies last week. Like, I'm supposed to be

00:57:03   finding out about this in Apple Music, not on Twitter. I will say the one good part

00:57:08   about this messy situation is this is the music editorial team inside of Apple

00:57:16   pushing things past what they technically should be allowed to do.

00:57:20   right which is that is like a beneficial thing because that is that team kind of

00:57:27   forcing the like the development teams to try and potentially add stuff for

00:57:33   them they're just like well this is all we've got so we'll just work within it

00:57:36   right like we want to interview the foals so we're just gonna throw it into

00:57:41   the description of the album and that's where it will live and we want to do it

00:57:44   so we've done it so like at least there is that to this right where it's like

00:57:47   okay it is definitely showing the issues with the platform but at least these people are going out

00:57:55   there and adding in as much interesting content as they can even though it's in a weird way.

00:58:00   Yeah. And also on Beats 1 or like the the radio stuff I don't listen to it anymore I don't know

00:58:08   anybody that does but Nicki Minaj has a show called Queen Radio which is very buzzy from time

00:58:16   to time. Like if she's ever in some kind of feud with somebody it will always find its way.

00:58:23   It's usually Cardi B.

00:58:23   Yeah, it will usually find its way to Queen Radio. I've seen it trending many times on Twitter,

00:58:28   so like people are listening to it, it's just maybe not the people that were listening to it

00:58:33   at first, maybe.

00:58:35   Yeah, so those are the three areas of improvements that I thought of for Apple Music. There's also

00:58:43   some stuff about the app itself that I would like to mention.

00:58:47   Yeah, because there's one of the features that you have about the app

00:58:51   ties into the editorial content so like I want to wait to talk about that a

00:58:55   little bit more when we get to that part. Sure, Steven you also had some

00:59:00   wishes/recommendations here, or things you would like to see?

00:59:06   Yeah, the biggest thing for me in the Apple Music app is

00:59:09   easier management of streaming versus downloaded content. Like if you want your

00:59:15   whole library or you want large chunks of your library, the easiest way to do that is to have

00:59:21   a playlist and then download everything on the playlist. But sometimes I'm still surprised even

00:59:29   after using Apple Music for a couple of years of, "Oh, I thought this was downloaded and, you know,

00:59:34   maybe it wasn't or maybe I missed it somehow and

00:59:37   Maybe there's a way where hey you listen to this album. You know ten times this week like it is in your heavy rotation

00:59:45   Maybe give me a suggestion or maybe if I have room just download it for me if I have enough space on my device like

00:59:52   Some smarter ways to handle that

00:59:54   So you don't end up in the situation where you're on a plane and you want that album you've been listening to all week and you

00:59:59   Realize that it's not

01:00:01   Downloaded now if you're that cool guy is one of the worst parts about getting a new iPhone. Yes

01:00:06   Yeah, you got you got a read download it all. Yeah, maybe you're that cool guy on the American Airlines

01:00:11   You know Apple PR page and then you know

01:00:13   If you're that guy all smug and satisfied you have your music

01:00:16   but the rest of us are kind of stuck scrambling sometimes and I

01:00:19   think I would just like to see better management tools are around that and

01:00:23   I think secondarily is like the iPad app could use some love like

01:00:30   Some parts of the UI on the iPad app are a little strange.

01:00:33   And then lastly, just why is Apple Music still chained

01:00:37   to iTunes on the desktop?

01:00:39   Like, just set it free.

01:00:40   Just set it free, Apple.

01:00:41   Put it in a new shiny application.

01:00:43   Let iTunes be iTunes and let Apple Music live its new life.

01:00:47   - They will.

01:00:48   That will be marzipan'd.

01:00:49   100% it will be.

01:00:51   That's when your breakup of iTunes begins,

01:00:53   but just not yet.

01:00:54   Soon, but not yet.

01:00:58   Before I get to the feature that Myke asked about,

01:01:03   I have a bunch of smaller improvements

01:01:06   that I wanna run through real quickly.

01:01:07   Okay, in Apple Music on iOS, create smart playlists.

01:01:12   This feature is still exclusive to iTunes on the Mac.

01:01:15   A new way to sort your playlists,

01:01:17   so to separate visually playlists that you created,

01:01:21   shared playlists that you're subscribed to,

01:01:23   and playlists made by Apple Music.

01:01:25   The ability to collaborate--

01:01:26   It annoys me that my playlists get put down at the bottom.

01:01:31   Why does that happen?

01:01:32   Why can't they be alphabetically sorted?

01:01:35   I have a playlist called "The Adventure Zone" and it's at the bottom of my playlist screen.

01:01:41   And that's the one I listen to the most.

01:01:43   So I'm like, why is this happening to me?

01:01:47   The ability to collaborate with other people on playlists.

01:01:50   Spotify has had this feature for ages.

01:01:53   The ability to customize the "For You" section.

01:01:56   I still cannot say "No, I'm not interested in trending songs" or "I wanna see this section

01:02:03   at the top, not at the very bottom".

01:02:06   Make it easier to browse genres.

01:02:09   If you wanna see what's new in the alternative genre, it still takes you so many tabs.

01:02:15   You need to open "Browse", you need to tap on, you need to open the list of other sections

01:02:20   and eventually find your genre.

01:02:22   There should be ways to customize the app and say I want to have a shortcut to this

01:02:27   specific page and make it easier for me to find what's new.

01:02:30   Again, schedule for Beats 1.

01:02:32   Why is there no bulletin calendar view in Apple Music to see the various programs and

01:02:38   interviews and live shows that are airing on Beats 1?

01:02:41   I don't know.

01:02:43   Make the app feel faster.

01:02:45   I don't know about you guys but I feel like Apple Music, a bunch of the transitions, they're

01:02:49   too slow.

01:02:50   when you want to open the Now Playing screen,

01:02:53   it's like the way that it slides up and other menus,

01:02:57   they feel a bit too slow and they could feel a bit faster

01:03:01   because the app can, I don't know, but it feels like Spotify is a bit more responsive.

01:03:07   I still wish I didn't have to scroll up to get to shuffle.

01:03:10   Yeah, yeah.

01:03:12   And finally, new tools to train the app better,

01:03:17   like to say, mute these artists.

01:03:19   I never want to see new releases from this artist or I just want to be able to tell the app that I'm not interested in

01:03:26   classical music or hip-hop for example. I have a funny thing with my

01:03:31   Like my favorites list, you know the favorite playlist or whatever it's called. My favorites mix. My favorites mix

01:03:38   So I did a series on a show that I used to do called inquisitive where I asked people their favorite album

01:03:46   There are still some songs that I that I listen to one time that come up in my favorites mix

01:03:51   Now, why does that happen?

01:03:53   like the only time outside of the first time that I ever listened to those is the two seconds of like

01:04:00   The song from pavement from a like which is Brad Dowdy's favorite band that I didn't like or from the Sweeney Todd

01:04:08   musical

01:04:10   soundtrack which was great but I never typically want to listen to like a random musical track

01:04:16   in the middle of a playlist of other songs and they keep coming up like they're still

01:04:20   happening and I only ever listened to those albums once and the only other times that

01:04:26   they come up is when it's in this playlist and I don't really know why that keeps happening

01:04:35   to me. It's actually in there right now. A song by Pavement called "Summer Babe". Now

01:04:41   I do not like that Pavement album. I only ever listen to it once. So why does it happen?

01:04:46   It's definitely not a favorite.

01:04:49   There should be features to train Apple Music and to manually say "Remove this" or "I never

01:04:55   want to see this again" or "I just want to teach the algorithm or whatever how to do

01:05:00   its job because evidently sometimes it does not do that job very well. So my final feature

01:05:08   request/idea would be integrating Apple News inside Apple Music. So I know that everybody

01:05:19   likes to make fun of it but Stocks, the Stocks app, is one of the most interesting updates in iOS 12

01:05:27   And not just because it's on the iPad and it's also being marzipan and it's on the Mac,

01:05:32   but because Apple is using Apple News as a provider of content for stocks.

01:05:39   If you open stocks and you open the ticker view of one of your favorite stocks, be it Apple or Tesla

01:05:47   or Google or whatever, you will find, if you are in a country where Apple News is supported,

01:05:53   you will find the business news section that provides you with headlines and various types of news and articles about the company that you're following in stocks.

01:06:05   So the idea would be all of this is automatic, the app knows how to integrate with Apple News, and it knows how to associate Apple headlines with the AAPL symbol in stocks.

01:06:19   So I thought, wouldn't it be nice if I could find reviews and interviews and articles about my favorite artists in Apple News, in Apple Music, but those are powered by Apple News.

01:06:34   I already have both pieces on my device. I have Apple News, where I have music sources that I follow.

01:06:41   In theory, Siri and Apple News know that I'm into churches or what's a band that I'm into.

01:06:49   Set It Off, it's a punk rock band that I'm listening to lately.

01:06:53   And I'm using Apple Music and it knows that I'm listening to those bands.

01:06:58   And so the same system that associates business news and stocks could be used, I think, in Apple Music

01:07:05   Apple Music to have entertainment news and headlines. Because I think it would be nice

01:07:10   when I'm listening to an album to also be able to find a review for that album powered

01:07:16   by Apple News. So the idea of, and again I think I mentioned this before on Connected,

01:07:22   but it could also be applied very easily to entertainment and to TV shows. If Apple ever

01:07:27   launches, you know, a rebranded TV app. It could be nice to have news about actors and production

01:07:35   of future seasons, all of that kind of content, you know, episode discussions available in Apple TV,

01:07:42   the app, but powered by Apple News. It would be very sad if Apple has developed this integration

01:07:49   between stocks and Apple News, but it's only limited to business. I think there's so much

01:07:54   much potential for entertainment. So music and TV shows and movies, they could all be

01:07:59   part of this system. And again, not a new idea. Other companies tried this before. I

01:08:06   want to pour one out for Recordbird, which was a music discovery tool that absolutely

01:08:12   nailed this before.

01:08:13   That was the app that could tell you if a band that you liked was playing a concert.

01:08:17   That's what I liked it for.

01:08:19   tell you concerts, could give you news, album reviews, could give you YouTube videos for

01:08:25   bands scanned from your Apple Music library.

01:08:28   And it would tell you like, oh here's an album coming out for a band that you like.

01:08:33   That kind of stuff.

01:08:36   The idea of Apple News as a provider of content for other Apple services, I think that would

01:08:43   be interesting.

01:08:44   I think that those improvements that they made to stocks were pretty great if you use

01:08:50   it.

01:08:51   If stocks is an app that you like to use, you now have one place to get the figures

01:08:56   and the news that corroborates with the figures.

01:08:59   Why are the figures like that?

01:09:00   Well here's the news stories.

01:09:02   I understand how you could make that app that way.

01:09:07   It makes a lot of sense.

01:09:09   I would love to see that come to music.

01:09:12   It makes sense if Apple's gonna try and beef up their new stuff in general, which we should

01:09:17   probably hear about in the next couple of weeks.

01:09:20   So I would like to see that.

01:09:23   I think it would be great.

01:09:24   Anything else?

01:09:25   Feel like we've fixed Apple Music?

01:09:27   Yeah.

01:09:28   Just now, Apple just needs to listen to everything we said and implement feature by feature by

01:09:36   June.

01:09:37   So thank you.

01:09:38   Yeah.

01:09:39   Just plenty of time.

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01:11:47   Alright so Spotify super mad at Apple and did two things today.

01:11:53   They published, their CEO Daniel Elk published a blog post/letter and they also created a

01:12:00   standalone website effectively detailing their long-standing issue with Apple.

01:12:05   So I want to read a quote from Daniel Elk. Oh, the other thing they're doing, which is

01:12:10   probably more important, Spotify is taking Apple to the European Commission for claims

01:12:14   of anti-competitive behavior. That's probably the most important thing.

01:12:17   Definitely the most important part of this. I think I buried the lead. Oh, they made a nice

01:12:21   website and it has a video on it. Daniel Elk, CEO of Spotify, said in his letter

01:12:27   announcing the case. In recent years, Apple has introduced rules

01:12:34   to the App Store that purposely limit choice and stifle innovation at the expense of the

01:12:39   user experience, essentially acting as both a player and referee to deliberately disadvantage

01:12:45   other app developers. After trying unsuccessfully to resolve the issues directly with Apple,

01:12:50   we're now requesting that the European Commission take action to ensure fair competition.

01:12:56   In a nutshell, what Spotify is saying is the 30% cut became really unfair for them when

01:13:04   Apple introduced a music service that was the same price.

01:13:09   Because Apple take 30% from Spotify but don't themselves so Spotify had to put their price

01:13:15   up when they sold it in the app store to try and counteract that but that made it way too

01:13:21   expensive compared to Apple Music.

01:13:24   Spotify are fed up of not being able to use their own payment system and not being able to direct their users somewhere else

01:13:29   They want the same treatment that companies who sell physical goods get

01:13:33   And they also built this consumer facing website called time to play fair calm

01:13:39   Where they've included a timeline of all of the issues that they feel they've had with Apple that also includes talking about like

01:13:46   Restrictions to Siri and at the Apple watch apps and home pod that they want to be able to be kind of first party there

01:13:53   but can't be and they've asked for it. The website, the time to play fair website takes

01:14:00   I think some liberties in places like there being I don't know I don't know about all of their claims

01:14:06   right but I don't disagree with their main points right like I look at that and it's like I find it

01:14:13   hard to argue with the complaint of this the price thing right the price thing is the biggest thing

01:14:23   here where Apple take 30% from Spotify but price their service the same and I

01:14:31   see that and it's like well I think you'd find it hard to argue the point of

01:14:38   them Apple not trying to stick it to Spotify here like I think you would

01:14:44   struggle to make the argument that they're being fair to Spotify like and

01:14:49   And you know, 'cause then there's also this idea of like,

01:14:52   not only, they weren't even allowed to link out

01:14:56   to Spotify's website so people can sign up.

01:14:58   You can't even mention that payment systems ever exist

01:15:03   or premium plans ever exist in your application.

01:15:07   So clearly Spotify and Apple have been on it

01:15:09   for a long time.

01:15:10   And irrespective of what Spotify has said about this,

01:15:13   'cause they said that the reason they have done it

01:15:15   this week is just because they have done it this week.

01:15:18   But I think it's incredibly clever that this has happened

01:15:21   just before Apple's streaming services event,

01:15:23   because this is now gonna be front of mind

01:15:25   for other companies Apple might wanna work with.

01:15:28   So there's a lot of stuff in here, as I say.

01:15:31   I think some of the points have some merit.

01:15:35   Some of them seem to just be enforcing another point.

01:15:40   Obviously, it's Apple's App Store.

01:15:43   Apple could do what they want in their App Store.

01:15:45   But let's remove monopoly from this conversation.

01:15:50   Monopoly is not, I don't really know

01:15:54   if that's what is going on here,

01:15:56   nor I think is that really what Spotify is saying.

01:15:59   It is anti-competitive, which is a different thing, right?

01:16:02   Like on iOS, Apple is the only iOS platform vendor

01:16:05   and Spotify wanna be on iOS.

01:16:08   Spotify's customers want them to be on iOS,

01:16:10   but Apple is making it difficult for Spotify

01:16:12   to operate in a way that they deem fair.

01:16:15   So that's kind of where we are with it.

01:16:18   Have I done a decent enough job of summing this up?

01:16:21   It is a very complex issue.

01:16:23   - Yeah, yeah, I think you did.

01:16:24   And I come at this from a simple perspective of,

01:16:29   let's just ask ourselves a simple question.

01:16:33   Is what's good for Apple also good for consumers?

01:16:37   And I think that should be the lens

01:16:39   through which every company operates.

01:16:42   is what's good for me also good for the people who give us money.

01:16:46   And I think I would urge everybody who has, you know, a political position in this debate

01:16:54   to just think about this.

01:16:58   Do you think it's fair that Apple forces these companies to operate with these margins when

01:17:08   And this is an objective truth. Spotify is paying 30% or for subscriptions that last over 12 months, 15%.

01:17:20   Essentially they're paying this for distribution of their app binary and for payment processing,

01:17:27   because, you know, I see the argument that people often say "well, you gave 30% to Apple, but Apple

01:17:35   takes care of promotion and marketing for you. And we're talking here about a company that is

01:17:41   on the constant fear of rejection, that I've never ever seen marketing or any kind of editorial or

01:17:49   promotional push for Spotify made by Apple. Spotify is paying for access, essentially, to the App Store.

01:17:57   And I'm a believer in open markets, in the idea that competition is good for companies and is good for consumers.

01:18:08   And I don't think this is fair competition. Yes, it is Apple's App Store and Apple's iPhone, and if they want to lock it down, so they should try to do so.

01:18:17   I bet they will lose their customers if they try to lock down the App Store just to prove a point.

01:18:22   So the point is not what Apple can do, the point is what should Apple do?

01:18:27   What is the fair and the right thing to do from a competitive perspective?

01:18:32   And if you think that killing the competition and making money off of services by making life

01:18:38   difficult for other companies is fair, then maybe we have a different definition of fair competition.

01:18:44   I guess that would be the problem.

01:18:45   Even like taking what you're saying about what's good for consumers to the next level,

01:18:50   if you are a Spotify user why should you not be able to use Spotify the way that you might

01:18:58   want to use it on the iPhone? Why? Because you want to use Spotify, is it more difficult for you

01:19:05   on the iPhone? Especially when the idea of payments via non-Apple in-app purchase systems

01:19:16   does exist, right? So like Spotify bring this up as like they're trying to compare themselves to

01:19:23   they use Deliveroo and Uber. Deliveroo is like Postmates in the UK and I know and like we all

01:19:29   know the rules are different, right? That if you're selling a physical good you can use your

01:19:34   own payment system, right? But why is that though? Like I think this is the point that Spotify are

01:19:41   getting at. We all know that's the rule so comparing it doesn't work the same.

01:19:46   Because Spotify is trying to make it like "oh they're punishing just us by doing this" right?

01:19:51   That's the kind of point that they're trying to make you feel. But take that point away from it.

01:19:56   Why is it okay for Amazon.com to sell physical goods using their own payment system?

01:20:05   but kindleworks can't.

01:20:08   Like why is that fine?

01:20:11   - Well, the easy answer is Apple sells books.

01:20:16   They don't sell paper towels.

01:20:18   - Exactly, but isn't that a problem?

01:20:20   - Well, that's what the problem is.

01:20:22   And when you get into this ground of Apple is

01:20:27   in the market, you know, in a market

01:20:30   and it controls the app store, the market resides within.

01:20:34   Like without the app store on the iPhone,

01:20:36   there's no music streaming on the iPhone, right?

01:20:38   Like it all lives within that framework.

01:20:41   And so far, where we've seen these things cross,

01:20:45   I think Apple is over the line.

01:20:48   And yes, I think Spotify is making this big flashy argument.

01:20:53   I think it's super interesting.

01:20:56   They're making the argument legally to the EU

01:20:59   at the same time where they are in this all out PR,

01:21:02   like blitz to consumers.

01:21:05   You know, clearly they want the public to be on their side,

01:21:07   which is really interesting.

01:21:09   You know, most people,

01:21:10   when the ebook scandal went down a few years ago,

01:21:12   you asked the average person,

01:21:14   they had no idea what you were talking about,

01:21:16   but maybe this is enough to get this into the,

01:21:20   like the general, you know, consumers conversation.

01:21:24   But I gotta agree with Spotify here

01:21:28   that Apple using its power over the App Store

01:21:33   to benefit Apple Music unfairly.

01:21:37   And then you add on things like Siri does not work

01:21:40   with third party streaming providers,

01:21:43   any audio streaming providers really.

01:21:45   It builds a case I think pretty clearly

01:21:48   that Apple is playing on uneven territory

01:21:52   when it comes to Apple Music.

01:21:55   - So like then we go back to this question again,

01:21:57   Like, is that okay for them to do that?

01:21:59   - Yeah. - Right?

01:22:02   - I would say no, but I'm not a judge.

01:22:03   - There are different schools of thought on it, right?

01:22:05   Like there are, there are different schools of thought

01:22:07   on it.

01:22:08   Personally, I feel like I should be able to make

01:22:13   the decision myself, right?

01:22:17   Like I feel like that that is the decision

01:22:18   that I should be allowed to make

01:22:21   if the App Store is an open enough platform.

01:22:26   Like I feel like if Spotify is allowed to be on the App Store,

01:22:29   then I should also be able to sign up for Spotify on the App Store.

01:22:35   Like this, this weird abstraction of payment is strange to me.

01:22:39   It's like, it's either one or the other, right?

01:22:43   Like if everything was done through Apple's system and it was all done

01:22:48   through my App Store account, then fine.

01:22:50   But it's not because there are some services I can do this, some services

01:22:53   can do that. And that's a bad customer experience, right? I can't even imagine the support that

01:22:59   is required for the Kindle app on iOS. Like the support cost to Amazon, I can't even imagine

01:23:08   the amount of money they have had to spend. I wonder if even at this point the money that

01:23:13   they have spent in dealing with the support of that is worth, right? Like the cut to Apple.

01:23:20   But nevertheless, I think we are 100% at a point now where Apple's cut needs to be reconsidered.

01:23:30   I think that we are 100% at that point because there definitely was a case for 30% back in

01:23:41   the day.

01:23:42   I think that case has changed and it changes especially when Apple gets into a market where

01:23:49   as already a player. I'm sure some time ago Apple were doing a lot to promote Spotify

01:23:55   in the App Store. And that maybe at that point it was worth it. There was a point where Spotify

01:24:03   was doing all of what Apple asked them to do, because it was probably worth it. But

01:24:07   then as time went on, I think Apple probably wanted to promote them less. And I feel like

01:24:12   if you are starting to make those decisions, that maybe that's where things start to get

01:24:18   little awkward. Conversations start happening inside of a company which they will definitely

01:24:24   have of like what type of promotion do we give to Spotify anymore? At that point you're in a

01:24:30   bit of a bind about what's the moral and legal way of dealing with this. And I just think that

01:24:40   at the point we're at right now I would like to see Apple state why 30% is okay now. I would like

01:24:48   to see them state the argument again, to show me why. Because if they can show me why, then fine,

01:24:55   but I just feel like that maybe that argument isn't as clear anymore. I've seen some people say,

01:25:03   and this is something that really doesn't make sense to me, that 30% is because you're paying

01:25:11   for a company that cares about your privacy,

01:25:15   and let alone the fact that I don't see

01:25:17   how the privacy argument relates to operating the App Store.

01:25:20   People are just conflating things that they like.

01:25:24   - It's not Spotify's privacy, and I'm not paying the 30%.

01:25:27   That doesn't make any sense at all, right?

01:25:30   - Let alone the fact that you're conflating

01:25:31   two different topics. - Yeah.

01:25:33   - But let me ask you this, assuming that your point is true.

01:25:39   If I'm paying for privacy, but I get an inferior Spotify experience because I'm paying more

01:25:46   and because I cannot use Spotify with Siri or with the HomePod or with the Apple Watch,

01:25:53   I get frustrated and eventually I say, "You know what?

01:25:56   I'm just going to use an Amazon Echo and an Android device where I can use Spotify as

01:26:01   my default music service and I don't get any of these limitations."

01:26:05   How is that better for privacy?

01:26:06   I switch phones, if I switch platforms, and I have to use something else where the gatekeeper

01:26:13   does not necessarily care about my privacy as much as you believe that Apple does.

01:26:17   So that argument doesn't hold any ground, it doesn't make any sense.

01:26:24   It's something that I have discovered today that having this kind of opinion on Twitter

01:26:31   you about a hundred replies from people who strongly defend Apple and that is fine in

01:26:36   spite of using Twitter but the privacy angle I really didn't understand.

01:26:42   I also just want to state, Spotify is not a perfect company and they are working in

01:26:48   an industry that is really sticking it to the other end. Streaming music services, probably

01:26:58   Apple included, artists are not making the money that they should be making anymore from

01:27:04   these services. But I don't really think specifically that our argument and our point here is "Oh

01:27:11   poor Spotify the company" for this. My whole feeling on this is when I look at Spotify's

01:27:18   arguments and I think about what I think is ultimately fair for users and creating the

01:27:24   the right experience. I think that this 30% cut and the rules around all of what Apple

01:27:31   takes and what they let you do and don't do isn't ultimately the right thing for users.

01:27:36   Whilst at the same time, I look at it and I was like, if I was that company, I think

01:27:41   I would be frustrated at the very strange application of different rules. But it's not

01:27:46   like none of us are here being like, oh, we feel so sad for Spotify Incorporated, right?

01:27:54   it's not that, it's like they are making good points, right? Where it's like, okay, I see

01:28:01   your point here, let's follow that thread and see where it takes us, right? So like,

01:28:06   I think it's important to state.

01:28:08   Absolutely. And also something that annoys me so much is when you, people respond to

01:28:16   a criticism with, oh, but look at this thing that this company is also doing. Like saying

01:28:23   that you know maybe Apple has an anti-competitive behavior, the response should not be "oh but

01:28:28   Spotify does not pay artists" like you are mixing issues and it's important to discuss

01:28:35   every issue individually. It's like if you have you know I don't have any brothers but

01:28:40   I see this you know in young kids for example one kid does something and the parent gets

01:28:46   upset and the kid says "oh but Andrew also did something bad" it's like that that is

01:28:50   It's not the problem here that you did something bad.

01:28:53   And then we're gonna deal with Andrew later.

01:28:55   And it should be important to separate issues, people.

01:29:00   - Dang it, Andrew.

01:29:02   - Damn, Andrew.

01:29:03   I just think that I'm really intrigued

01:29:08   to see where this ends up going.

01:29:10   Like the politics stuff is super difficult.

01:29:13   And like, there's a bunch of stuff going on

01:29:14   in the US right now about breaking up all the companies.

01:29:17   And it plays into this, right?

01:29:20   like I don't ultimately feel like I necessarily believe in a strict rule for everything, like

01:29:29   I feel like things need to be judged kind of a little bit more individually, um but I am

01:29:35   definitely in the camp of, I've started listening to the Verge cast again more recently because it's

01:29:42   very good, this comes at Steven's recommendation, because they dive into things like this in a way

01:29:48   that I don't really have the knowledge to talk about. But the idea, and I talk about it quite

01:29:55   a bit on the show, of like we are trending towards five or six huge companies and like

01:30:01   that's all there's going to be. So like clearly some stuff needs to be looked at and like just

01:30:07   I feel like somebody responsible needs to be making sure that things are okay. But part of

01:30:13   of the problem is every time you ever see any technology discussion in politics it is discussed

01:30:19   by people who have literally no idea what they're talking about so I don't even know if blame if

01:30:25   like trust in the governments is the right way to go with this so I don't really know what you do

01:30:29   but anyway we're getting into the weeds now but my point is that like they need this stuff needs

01:30:35   to be looked at a little bit more seriously now because all of these large companies are kind of

01:30:42   pushing us into their ecosystems in increasing ways and trying to shut everybody else out.

01:30:50   And like this idea of people are like, oh, you know, this is important for Apple for their

01:30:58   services revenue. So they can't make like no one made this decision about services revenue except

01:31:04   for Apple themselves. And ultimately, it's not that important to the company. It's important to

01:31:09   the stock market, right? But like, this is a decision that Apple made and they've moved

01:31:14   down this path on their own and they are walking themselves through this, right? Like, they're

01:31:19   trying to like squeeze every cent that they can out of people because then they can show

01:31:24   Wall Street that they're growing.

01:31:26   And it's not like you signed up for Apple Music and said, "Oh yes, now I am going to

01:31:31   support the services revenue of Apple."

01:31:34   This isn't, you know, this is not a thing. And it's like, it's one of my favorite little

01:31:38   phrases that I like to bring up every now and then. It's like this is not a naturally occurring

01:31:42   thing. This is a thing that Apple decided to do and now they're in this situation but this kind of

01:31:49   slow squeezing is going to start alienating companies but then you end up in this like,

01:31:56   I refer to it as like, it's like an arms race, like cold war, right? Where all of these companies

01:32:02   actually need each other but they don't want to admit it, right? Spotify needs Apple but Apple

01:32:07   need Spotify because if there's no Spotify and iOS, Apple will lose customers. But if Spotify

01:32:14   pulls away from iOS, Spotify loses customers. And who is more important? This goes back to

01:32:18   the conversations we were having about the enterprise certificates, right? Apple can't

01:32:23   actually kick Facebook off the platform, but Facebook can't upset Apple that much. But

01:32:29   neither of them know what the result is of there being a complete breakdown.

01:32:35   So I'm going in like a million different directions, but I think that this Spotify thing is right

01:32:42   at the very core of a lot of these right now.

01:32:45   But Spotify is the first company to stand up to one of the large platform vendors in

01:32:51   this way in a while.

01:32:54   And being in the EU makes that way more interesting.

01:32:57   Because they're different.

01:32:59   Political and legal climate.

01:33:02   One thing I don't think we touched on that I just wanted to bring up before we go is

01:33:06   I think there's this idea by some people that, "Oh, the 30% cut is really bad for indie developers."

01:33:14   They're all of our friends.

01:33:15   We know a bunch of them.

01:33:17   And it is.

01:33:18   If you're going to make a business on the App Store, you're losing 30% off the top.

01:33:23   It's bad, right?

01:33:25   That is rough to anyone's revenue.

01:33:28   We own a company.

01:33:29   If I had to pay 30% off the top, I would be sad about that.

01:33:33   And there are some people I think that have a little bit

01:33:35   of Stockholm syndrome about that.

01:33:38   Oh, well 30%, you know, yeah, it'd be great if it were lower

01:33:41   but it's just the cost of doing business.

01:33:43   And Myke, you said it perfectly.

01:33:45   They said it'd just fall out of the sky.

01:33:47   It's not like this was the way it was willed

01:33:50   from the beginning of the universe.

01:33:52   Apple made these decisions and the decisions

01:33:54   clearly need to be reevaluated over time.

01:33:59   And I think Spotify is proving that point a little bit.

01:34:02   - Giving away a percentage of your revenue

01:34:04   is not inherently a bad thing,

01:34:06   but you have to be comfortable

01:34:07   with what you're getting in return.

01:34:09   - Right, and something that, you mentioned the Vergecast,

01:34:12   something Neil A. Patel said on the most recent one

01:34:13   that I thought was really smart,

01:34:15   was like, some people view this as like,

01:34:18   well, you know, this company can't survive

01:34:20   because the app store is 30%.

01:34:22   Like no company deserves to live or die.

01:34:26   Like the market decides consumers decide if a company lives or dies.

01:34:31   Now Spotify is in a position where they are effectively renting music to their

01:34:36   customers, right?

01:34:36   They are paying licensing fees on one end and the other end, they're collecting

01:34:40   money from people like you and me.

01:34:42   Well, not us, we're Apple music subscribers, but people like my brother,

01:34:45   who's a Spotify customer.

01:34:46   And he pays them whatever it is a month and he gets the music that he wants.

01:34:50   And on the other end, Spotify is putting pennies in each coffee cup for each musician that

01:34:56   he listens to.

01:34:57   And Spotify is saying that that 30% is too great of a burden for them.

01:35:04   Well, that is a reality in the music streaming business and a reality that Spotify has to

01:35:10   contend with.

01:35:11   Now, Spotify is choosing to contend with it in this way of fighting Apple over it and

01:35:17   avoiding the 30% wherever possible.

01:35:20   But I can't help but think that all of that complicated business stuff just gets boiled

01:35:26   away when people get upset about their favorite companies fighting.

01:35:30   And the reality is this is extremely complicated economic stuff to deal with, right?

01:35:34   You're talking about huge companies.

01:35:37   And you know what, maybe the truth is music streaming services can only survive if they're

01:35:40   owned by an Apple or an Amazon or a Google.

01:35:43   Like photo services.

01:35:45   Like photo management, right?

01:35:46   And I hope we don't photo manage Spotify out of existence here.

01:35:49   But Spotify is really the only independent music streaming service that matters, right?

01:35:54   Like title and these others are out there.

01:35:56   But Spotify is the only big player and RDO and all these others have gone away over the

01:36:00   years.

01:36:01   And I know Spotify knows that they see that I think that's why they're getting into podcasting

01:36:05   to diversify their, their revenue and their income.

01:36:09   But they're in it.

01:36:11   They're in a tight spot.

01:36:12   And fighting Apple on it is a super interesting way to deal with it.

01:36:16   But I feel like the sense I got on Twitter before I muted every keyword I could think

01:36:20   of about this debate was people see this as just about the App Store or just about Spotify

01:36:27   not being accessible via Siri or just about this.

01:36:30   And the reality is this is deeply complicated and it goes to things that feel above my pay

01:36:37   grade.

01:36:39   But at the heart of it, I think we can agree that Federico's question is best is that is

01:36:44   is what is good for Apple, is that also good for consumers?

01:36:48   And if your debate or your argument

01:36:51   doesn't come back to that eventually,

01:36:53   then I think you're sort of off in the wrong direction.

01:36:56   - You should buy our merch, connectedmerch.com.

01:37:00   - Dot com. - Dot com,

01:37:01   or you can find links in our show notes.

01:37:04   I'm sure that you will enjoy the merch.

01:37:07   The T-shirt's very nice, stickers will be very good.

01:37:08   Remember, the T-shirt is gonna be available for two weeks,

01:37:13   you can buy it up until March 28th but don't delay on it because if you delay on it you

01:37:16   might forget it and then you'll never get it and you'll be sad. The stickers are in

01:37:20   limited supply. If you buy them together they'll ship together if you want the stickers first

01:37:25   you can buy those first and they'll ship immediately but the stickers are in limited supply so

01:37:31   you've got to go get those so that's the technology should be colourful stuff and as Stephen said

01:37:36   we'll be giving away a portion of the proceeds to AppCamp for Girls so just go and check

01:37:41   it out and if you like it you should buy it and it's in a couple of colors and I think

01:37:44   you'll enjoy it.

01:37:46   Steven, take us home.

01:37:48   If you want to find links to the stuff we talked about this week, head over to relay.fm/connected/234.

01:37:57   While you're there you can do a couple of things.

01:37:58   You can send us an email with feedback follow up or you can find links there to our handles

01:38:05   over on Twitter.

01:38:06   You can find Myke on Twitter as @imyke.

01:38:09   Myke is the host of a bunch of great shows here on Relay FM.

01:38:12   If you want to hear more of Myke's beautiful voice, there's lots of opportunities to do

01:38:16   that.

01:38:17   You can find Federico on Twitter @vittici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I, and he is the editor-in-chief

01:38:22   of MacStories.net.

01:38:23   I want to give one last plug too to your Shortcuts library that you published last week.

01:38:30   I've already gone back to it a couple of times for things.

01:38:33   It's really fun to explore, so be sure to look at that.

01:38:37   You can find me on Twitter as ismh and I write over at 512pixels.net.

01:38:43   Until next week gentlemen, say goodbye.

01:38:45   Arrivederci.

01:38:46   By the much.

01:38:47   Adios.