231: Dozens of Invisible Footnotes


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   - From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 231.

00:00:13   It is made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:15   Pingdom, Luna Display, and Care/Of.

00:00:19   I'm your host, Steven Hackett, and this is an odd episode,

00:00:21   so let me introduce to you my friend and yours,

00:00:25   Michael Hurley.

00:00:26   - The year of Myke has officially begun.

00:00:29   Now that I've got justice, the justice that I deserved, and here I am, as introduced first.

00:00:36   I'm now going to begin my 90 minute monologue as part of my introduction that I prepared

00:00:41   this week.

00:00:42   I was born in 1988 in a small town... no, it's done now.

00:00:46   Please continue.

00:00:47   I will listen to this.

00:00:49   I don't have it prepared.

00:00:50   I'll prepare it for my next episode.

00:00:53   Okay.

00:00:54   And we have Federico here as well.

00:00:57   Hello.

00:00:58   Hi.

00:00:59   it. Every number is an even number because 231 divided by 2 is 115.5.

00:01:06   I think you understand even numbers. He cheated in math class, remember?

00:01:12   I don't know. But yeah, it's fine, you know, this new rule system.

00:01:21   It's fair.

00:01:23   If Myke wanted it, so, you know, he's happy.

00:01:28   It's fair is what it is. Fair. Fair is such an overused term. But yeah, I will accept it.

00:01:35   Okay, I'm glad we got that cleared up. We have a bunch of follow up this week. It goes on and on

00:01:43   and on. The Apple Enterprise certificate system is still completely broken in every way. 9to5 Mac

00:01:51   reported this on last week. The Verge reported on it, I think yesterday or today, like shocked

00:01:56   that people install hacked apps on their phone.

00:01:59   I guess the moral of the story is,

00:02:01   this is like still super, super broken.

00:02:05   - Yeah, we've sort of hinted at the fact

00:02:08   that there have been for several years now

00:02:12   like these third-party app stores

00:02:15   that allowed you to install.

00:02:17   I mentioned tweaked versions of apps

00:02:20   like Spotify without ads or Instagram

00:02:24   with certain enhancements that were possible only on general broken devices.

00:02:28   And I think Bloomberg also did a report on this and they mentioned the service that I was thinking of.

00:02:34   It's called TweakBox and it's part of this series of third-party alternative

00:02:40   quote-unquote app stores that allow you to install either modified versions of apps or just hacked,

00:02:47   like the cracked copies of apps.

00:02:50   This reminds me of the fact that years ago before,

00:02:55   you know, when jailbreaking on iPhone used to be more of a common thing,

00:02:59   like, you guys remember there were like tools that you could download

00:03:04   on your computer and they would jailbreak your device with one click.

00:03:07   Yeah, I jail broke some stuff in the past, like iPod touches and stuff.

00:03:11   Yeah. And I would often like when jailbreaking was easy,

00:03:14   I would often find on my friends' home screens

00:03:17   this third-party app store that I don't think it exists anymore. It was called Installus,

00:03:25   and it was a way to install pirated copies of games. And my friends were crazy for this

00:03:32   illegal app store, but it used to be so common. And it feels like, to an extent, this enterprise

00:03:38   certificate deal is sort of like the new jailbreaking for a lot of people. It's a way to get around

00:03:45   the App Store and paying for software, using in this case, it's even more

00:03:51   -egregious. -So easy to do.

00:03:53   Because it's an officially sanctioned tool that is available on iOS.

00:03:58   I mean, clearly at this point, right, we're talking about this every week

00:04:04   because TechCrunch hit on an absolute goldmine of reporting.

00:04:08   And now everyone's jumping on the bandwagon.

00:04:10   Right. So like everyone's trying to write their piece now about the

00:04:15   enterprise saying, and I'm not saying that it's not valid, especially because

00:04:17   new things keep coming out.

00:04:19   But like, this feels like a story that's going to keep popping up for a little

00:04:23   while. And/or even if it goes away, everyone now has like an opinion

00:04:28   about this enterprise stuff.

00:04:30   And it means probably more people are going to try and get hacked apps because

00:04:34   now they might know that it exists when they didn't before.

00:04:37   But every now and then you just see these things pop up.

00:04:40   They're like, someone gets this big story and then people will start digging into

00:04:43   Like, as you imagine in newsrooms across the globe, what is our story about the Enterprise

00:04:50   certificates, right?

00:04:51   And then someone has to try and write a story about it, which is why it's now all over the

00:04:56   place.

00:04:57   And they just, these stories just keep popping up.

00:05:01   It still feels like our conversation from last week holds up that there's some sort

00:05:05   of reckoning coming for this system.

00:05:08   It's gonna go through some changes.

00:05:11   We also spoke about the report concerning Apple's upcoming

00:05:16   texture-powered news magazine website thing

00:05:20   through Apple News.

00:05:21   The story was that Apple had asked publishers

00:05:24   for 50% of the revenue generated

00:05:27   through the subscriptions in Apple News.

00:05:29   And after we recorded, Recode had an article

00:05:32   of putting some more detail into this.

00:05:35   And basically the headline here is that

00:05:38   Apple does actually have potentially quite a few organizations and publications signed

00:05:43   up for this because they would rather have a small percentage of a big number than a

00:05:47   big chunk of a small number.

00:05:50   When as ever make it up in scale, that's never failed, but it seems like some people are

00:05:55   going to go for it with this.

00:05:57   This may not be quite as dire as it seemed when they launched this thing.

00:06:01   I think there will be more people there than we anticipated.

00:06:04   Yeah, I think it's a good set of points that Peter Kafka makes in this article, but I think

00:06:13   even he says that you're still not going to get the huge publishers, right? It's very

00:06:18   unlikely that the big newspapers are going to go for this, but as we were talking about

00:06:22   before, this is clearly a method for magazines, websites, newspapers that were not making

00:06:29   a ton of money before to make some, but that still kind of leaves it in a situation of

00:06:35   is the service going to be compelling enough? Is it going to have enough of what people

00:06:39   want to read that they would pay money for it? That I think remains to be seen and we'll

00:06:46   find out next month.

00:06:47   Yeah, and it feels like something that will be more popular among publishers that don't

00:06:56   have an important presence on the web or don't have maybe the resources to commit to building

00:07:04   up a website with subscriptions and paywalls, like if you're a magazine and you sort of

00:07:08   have a website but it's not this great experience and you don't have paywalls on the web, then

00:07:15   I guess using Apple News and embracing Apple News on Apple's terms makes sense. But again,

00:07:20   I remain convinced, I agree with Myke, if you're the Wall Street Journal all the times,

00:07:25   would you give up the revenue that you can get on your website because you have the whole

00:07:30   infrastructure already in place. So I guess we'll see the likes of like sport magazines

00:07:35   or other publications that don't have such a strong web component. I want to see if there

00:07:43   will be any surprises, like maybe actually the times will be on Apple News. I strongly

00:07:48   doubt it myself, but we'll see what happens.

00:07:51   I mean, we could be a month away from this, right, if that March event is really on the

00:07:57   books.

00:07:59   We do need to talk about maybe the highlight of last week of Team San Jose.

00:08:04   Remember this?

00:08:05   This is how MacRumors discovered when WBC may be, and we thought that Team San Jose

00:08:12   was a bad codename.

00:08:13   Well, it turns out it's just a regular bad name.

00:08:16   So listen to Robert Synthesin.

00:08:18   Team San Jose is the name of the city's convention and visitor bureau that is in charge of booking

00:08:26   these events and publicizing them.

00:08:28   They apparently run the city-owned venues like the convention center.

00:08:32   So not a code name, just sort of a weird marketing brand for the city of San Jose that they should

00:08:38   workshop more.

00:08:39   But they even have a website.

00:08:41   You can go read it.

00:08:42   It's Team San Jose, all the way I guess.

00:08:46   But this makes it kind of worse, right?

00:08:48   Because this wasn't Apple messing up.

00:08:51   This was Apple having to rely on a company

00:08:53   because they clearly are not allowed to book these venues

00:08:57   without the involvement of Team San Jose.

00:08:59   Which is actually like-- they are like a public-private thing.

00:09:03   So relying on the city or something partially funded

00:09:06   by the city is not great.

00:09:09   I just wanted to let you know that Team San Jose has DMAP

00:09:11   certification, which is the destination marketing

00:09:14   accreditation program, DMAP.

00:09:16   an independent international body defining quality and performance issues in destination marketing

00:09:20   and recognizing DMOs that meet or exceed industry standards.

00:09:25   So you got the sweet, sweet DMAP program approved, you know, Team San Jose all the way.

00:09:31   Good job.

00:09:32   I was thinking about not attending San Jose this year if they didn't have DMAP certification by now, so I'm pleased.

00:09:37   No, no, they do, they have DMAP, so it's safe to go.

00:09:40   If you're a DMAP aficionado, it's safe to go.

00:09:44   I like how they explain what DMAP means, but then they jump into DMO, which is destination

00:09:52   marketing organization, but they don't explain that until later.

00:09:56   There's also DMAI, which is when AI gets involved.

00:10:02   That's the future of the DM programs.

00:10:05   And they explain that, but then they don't use it again.

00:10:08   This is a very sloppy use of acronyms, San Jose.

00:10:12   Because people that don't know the acronyms shouldn't really be on this website. Let's

00:10:17   be honest. It's not meant for us.

00:10:19   It's just poor use of acronyms. You gotta use it on first reference and then you don't

00:10:23   give it if you don't ever use it again. I just don't.

00:10:26   Also I wanted to let you know that there's a shop San Jose, which is another thing that

00:10:31   exists. You can buy t-shirts with the San Jose logo. Hats. Yeah. Also stickers.

00:10:38   some cool San Jose swag? Be the first to get the newest San Jose branded t-shirts, hoodies,

00:10:44   hats and more. I feel like we should all buy these and we can roll into San Jose.

00:10:47   You should put a San Jose sticker on your iPad, Myke.

00:10:51   Okay. I don't think I want to pay for the shipping.

00:10:54   Well, maybe you can pick it up in person at the Team San Jose office.

00:11:00   Maybe I can. Maybe they have a big, big gift shop or something. I have a selection of follow-up

00:11:05   items that I would like to submit to the group.

00:11:08   Oh boy. Would you say a menu of follow up items?

00:11:11   Yeah. So I'll tell you the more and then you can like choose what your favorite one.

00:11:14   OK. OK.

00:11:16   I would like to thank everybody who tried to help me on my Sonos related

00:11:19   record player quest.

00:11:21   I've got lots of suggestions.

00:11:22   Pretty much every suggestion ended with what app shall I use?

00:11:26   I was getting lots of people just plug it into an iPod touch.

00:11:29   But the problem is always, OK, when I get there,

00:11:32   how do I get the audio from the iPod touch from an audio in

00:11:37   to the HomePod. And there's basically, and then there's like a bunch of other solutions,

00:11:42   none of them are what I want. You can't leave that hanging, because then you're going to get

00:11:45   feedback about that again. The answer was leave GarageBand running on the iPod touch,

00:11:50   monitoring the input. That is untenable. It's untenable. That is an untenable solution. I'm

00:11:55   not saying that it is I'm just saying that you can't leave that hanging or you're going to hear

00:11:58   about GarageBand for another seven days. To be honest, I've gotten so many pieces of feedback

00:12:04   about this, I'd completely forgotten about the GarageBand one because that was one of

00:12:08   the first and then I spent the last week of my life reading these solutions.

00:12:13   None of them, I genuinely am grateful for people trying to help me.

00:12:18   This is nobody's fault except the technology that underlies everything.

00:12:23   I've decided though that I will not be progressing any technology-focused route to solve this

00:12:27   problem and I'm just going to buy some speakers.

00:12:30   I like the people that just wrote into me, including Marco Arment, and just said,

00:12:35   "You're not going to be happy with any of this.

00:12:37   And by doing something technological, you're kind of ruining part of what makes a record player so much fun to own.

00:12:44   So I'm going to go with the speaker root.

00:12:46   It was a nice try, but that's that.

00:12:48   That is done. That this door has been closed.

00:12:51   I have been given the Tichi curse.

00:12:55   My AirPods are now only getting about 60 to 90 minutes of battery life before I hear the sound.

00:13:00   This was not happening a couple of weeks ago before we started talking about this, but now they are.

00:13:06   I was on a phone call yesterday, 45 minutes in, whatever that little noise is, so that's unfortunate.

00:13:12   So it's happening to me now too. I am a devout Gboard user, have been for a long time, I absolutely love it.

00:13:19   The autocorrect works well for me, I like the swipe typing and all the emoji search and stuff is brilliant.

00:13:24   They just added haptic feedback when you tap on keys.

00:13:29   I love this. You don't have to.

00:13:31   It's the thing you have to turn on. It's off by default.

00:13:34   I turned it on and I really, really like it.

00:13:37   I like the way it feels.

00:13:38   So that's something it's just another great feature that Gboard has.

00:13:41   And finally, I scratched my screen protector.

00:13:45   Oh, your paper thing?

00:13:47   Yeah, like I got like a deep like gouge into it.

00:13:50   What did you do?

00:13:52   I don't know what I did,

00:13:54   But it's scratched. At this point, I'm just trying to hang on.

00:13:58   I still like the way it feels, but I'm getting more frustrated with it.

00:14:02   I don't know how much longer it's going to live, but I just wanted to let you know that I scratched the screen protector,

00:14:07   just because that's kind of a funny thing.

00:14:08   Maybe you were upset.

00:14:10   Maybe you were upset at the screen protector and you wanted to hurt it.

00:14:13   Yeah, maybe that might have been what it was.

00:14:16   Do you know what would be really

00:14:18   rewarding for all of us?

00:14:21   just as a connected family.

00:14:23   If you just got your iPad and took it off on the microphone

00:14:27   so we could hear it.

00:14:28   - I knew you were gonna suggest this.

00:14:29   - It's a really nice sound.

00:14:31   - It's not in the same room.

00:14:32   - Well, we can wait.

00:14:33   I can edit it in elevator music.

00:14:35   - When we come back from the ad break,

00:14:38   we can all have an ASMR treat.

00:14:40   - Yes.

00:14:41   - So you go do that and I'll go get my iPad.

00:14:44   - Oh my God, okay.

00:14:46   - This episode of Connected is brought to you by Pingdom,

00:14:49   the company that makes website performance

00:14:52   and monitoring really easy.

00:14:54   Look, everyone loves a fast website

00:14:57   and Pingdom is helping keep our favorite sites online

00:15:00   from Netflix to Amazon, Spotify, Twitter,

00:15:03   Buzzfeed, Slack, and a little podcast network

00:15:06   you may know as Relay FM.

00:15:08   These companies trust Pingdom to take care

00:15:10   of their website monitoring.

00:15:13   Websites can get pretty complicated.

00:15:15   They have a lot of moving parts like user registration,

00:15:17   logins, checkout, saving shopping carts, a ton of stuff, right?

00:15:22   Simple static sites are a thing of the past.

00:15:24   And Pingdom can monitor all these different site transactions

00:15:28   because they care about your users

00:15:30   having the smoothest site experience possible.

00:15:34   And if disaster strikes, you'll be the first to know.

00:15:37   Pingdom is super easy to set up.

00:15:40   It's really simple to get started.

00:15:42   All they need is your URL and they take care of the rest.

00:15:45   That's it. Just give them the URL and you're off.

00:15:48   Go to pingdom.com/relayfm right now

00:15:52   for a 14-day free trial with no credit card required.

00:15:57   And when you sign up, use the offer code connected

00:16:00   at checkout to get a huge 30% off your first invoice.

00:16:05   Thanks to Pingdom for their support

00:16:07   of this show and Relay FM.

00:16:09   - So, but before I do this, I just wanna say,

00:16:12   I will miss the way that this feels.

00:16:13   It does feel really good, but like it does ruin the screen.

00:16:17   I have no idea.

00:16:18   Good bye paper.

00:16:19   Bye.

00:16:20   I have no idea if you're going to hear this, but I'm going to give it a go anyway.

00:16:24   Alright, you ready?

00:16:25   Yes.

00:16:26   Oh man, it's gone.

00:16:39   It sounded like thunder for a second.

00:16:42   Yeah, there was one point where I hit it against the microphone.

00:16:45   Oh, you guys, did you know that the 12.9 inch iPad has a really nice screen?

00:16:52   It's a retina display under there!

00:16:53   It looks so good, oh my god it looks so good, but you know what though, genuinely, I do

00:16:58   not like the way it feels.

00:17:00   Like it's just too grippy now.

00:17:02   You need some more finger grease on there to oil that baby up.

00:17:05   I guess that's probably what it is.

00:17:09   That's disgusting, Steven. My god!

00:17:13   Can I just say I've had this thing for like a second and it's already like a bunch of

00:17:19   just fingerprints all over it. That's the thing that I'm giving up.

00:17:22   I just clean my iPad off, you know, every once in a while and I think this is really nice.

00:17:26   I should put it in a glass case and never touch it again.

00:17:29   No, you just need a screen protector.

00:17:32   The trick is to never leave the display off so you never see the fingerprints.

00:17:37   That's the secret to your productivity.

00:17:41   Always keep it running.

00:17:45   Alright do we have to do this? Whatever it is, yes is the answer.

00:17:49   Yeah you promised, you promised that you would talk about your phone situation.

00:17:53   Oh I see, oh I see what we're talking about.

00:17:56   I did promise. To recap, I bought an iPhone XS Max with y'all and many of our

00:18:03   listeners back when it whenever it came out in the fall and pretty good pretty

00:18:08   good time screen was nice battery life was amazing and then like a month ago I

00:18:14   said you know I should check out the iPhone XR it's the most popular iPhone I

00:18:17   want to kind of understand it as a device see what it's like compared to

00:18:20   the other things so I picked up a XR really liked it but as I discussed with

00:18:25   y'all the the camera was really what was gonna do it in for me long term the

00:18:31   The screen is great, the battery life is incredible.

00:18:33   I love the colors so much.

00:18:36   But I really like having that second camera.

00:18:39   Not necessarily for portrait photos,

00:18:41   but it's actually kind of surprising

00:18:43   once you pay attention, for me at least,

00:18:45   how often I would switch the zoom lens

00:18:46   to take a regular photo.

00:18:50   It's nice to punch in sometimes.

00:18:52   And I knew that in my inner self

00:18:57   that I would be frustrated not having that over time.

00:18:59   So the iPhone XR went back to the Apple Store.

00:19:02   Thank you Apple retail for having a nice return policy

00:19:05   and please don't catch on to the fact

00:19:06   that sometimes I use it to review your products.

00:19:09   Just keep that between us, listeners.

00:19:11   But the thing that I realized was that the XS Max

00:19:17   is beyond my upper size limit for phones.

00:19:23   I really like the plus size, I like the size of the X,

00:19:27   But sometimes I thought the X was a little small.

00:19:31   And the XR for me, honestly, is like the perfect size iPhone.

00:19:33   I really love that size.

00:19:36   But I picked the Max up again.

00:19:37   I was like, this is too big.

00:19:39   It's too much phone for me.

00:19:44   So while all this is going on with y'all,

00:19:46   I'm also having this conversation

00:19:47   with a family member who needs to buy a new iPhone

00:19:50   to replace a flip phone they were using.

00:19:53   Like, yes, I had a family member using a flip phone.

00:19:56   They wanted to buy an iPhone.

00:19:58   They really liked the idea of having something big,

00:20:01   because this person works out running around all day,

00:20:06   seeing clients and stuff.

00:20:07   So they use a MacBook Air, but they're like, well,

00:20:10   I could just do email and stuff on the phone.

00:20:11   If it was big enough, they're going to blow up the text size.

00:20:14   The Max was attractive to them, but they

00:20:17   didn't want to spend the whatever it is, $2,200

00:20:21   for an iPhone XS Max.

00:20:23   And so I cut a deal with that family member.

00:20:25   I said, I'll make you a deal on the max,

00:20:28   help you out, you get to where you need to be.

00:20:30   And I ended up with an iPhone XS.

00:20:36   It's right here in my hands,

00:20:39   and I have to say, I really love it.

00:20:42   I love the screen size, it's way more pocketable,

00:20:45   I can use it with one hand, unlike the max,

00:20:47   which was just like too big for my hands.

00:20:50   And so yeah, that's the end of my iPhone journey

00:20:55   for this year.

00:20:56   - For now.

00:20:58   For now.

00:20:59   I mean, I seem to recall that when we had the conversation

00:21:04   about the XR, I don't remember exactly what it was

00:21:07   that I predicted you would do,

00:21:08   but I don't think it's very far off

00:21:10   from what you ended up doing.

00:21:12   That you wouldn't be able to settle on anything.

00:21:14   And you didn't settle on anything.

00:21:16   You settled for neither the thing that you had

00:21:18   or the thing that you already owned.

00:21:19   you went for like a third option,

00:21:21   which was another new thing.

00:21:23   - It's the most Steven decision in that situation.

00:21:26   But anyways, I really like the size.

00:21:28   I will say though, the battery life is worse

00:21:31   on the smaller phone.

00:21:32   Especially coming from the XR to this,

00:21:34   the battery life is not stellar.

00:21:37   It's not impressive, so that's a bit of a bummer.

00:21:39   But other than all that, my family member's taken care of.

00:21:43   I've got a phone I like that I can use one-handed.

00:21:45   And that's the story.

00:21:49   I cannot even begin to imagine what you're gonna do when the new modular Mac Pro comes

00:21:54   out.

00:21:55   You're gonna try so many different displays.

00:21:58   I know what he's gonna do.

00:21:59   He's gonna buy that.

00:22:01   Yeah, but first he's going for one type of configuration, then he's gonna switch it to

00:22:06   another, then he's gonna switch displays, then it will tweak the amount of RAM that

00:22:10   goes into the computer.

00:22:11   It'll be like a six month thing, at least.

00:22:15   You're not wrong.

00:22:16   What would you describe as the cause for your undecisiveness, Steven?

00:22:25   Here's the thing. I'm actually quite decisive in a lot of areas of life. Just when it comes

00:22:33   to technology products. And not even technology products.

00:22:37   You're very decisive. You just make a lot of decisions.

00:22:40   Repeatedly. Over and over. In quick succession.

00:22:43   About the same things.

00:22:44   But you know, there's a lot in my life that I'm not this way about, but something about

00:22:50   laptops and phones just bounce around a bunch.

00:22:54   Anyways, but yes, the Mac Pro will be an endless playground for me, which I look forward to

00:23:00   greatly.

00:23:01   The iMac Pro is all sealed up, I can't do anything with this computer.

00:23:03   I can just look at it and love it, but its successor I will be able to take apart anytime

00:23:07   I want.

00:23:08   I remember though that this iMac Pro came with one of these stories.

00:23:17   That wasn't like it.

00:23:18   That was like a, if I remember rightly, again, beautiful Stephen Fashian, you were very much

00:23:24   like "I don't need one of those, I'm going to buy a refurbished iMac instead."

00:23:29   When they are announced.

00:23:30   No.

00:23:31   Yeah.

00:23:32   I'm going to buy a refurbished iMac because that's all the iMac I need and then like two

00:23:35   weeks later you got an iMac Pro.

00:23:37   pretty much what happened. Yep. So this is why I won. There are always good reasons though,

00:23:42   right? Like that iMac I bought was an i7 and the fan noise was ungodly and when you record podcasts

00:23:48   you can't deal with that. So beautiful, silent iMac Pro. But for some reason everybody else can see

00:23:54   these reasons ahead of you. Yeah that's what's really troubling. So maybe I just need to call

00:23:59   y'all before I purchase anything and we just talk to it. Anything. Yeah and I'll just tell you what

00:24:04   what to do every time.

00:24:05   - Could you be my life coach?

00:24:07   - Sure. - Okay.

00:24:09   Well, that's enough about me.

00:24:10   We have a lot of stuff to talk about

00:24:12   because the floodgates have opened on 2019

00:24:17   and beyond Apple rumors.

00:24:20   It's, there's like every time I open a web,

00:24:24   the web browser, there's more Apple rumors to talk about.

00:24:27   And I thought we could start with the most recent.

00:24:30   It's being like today on Wednesday

00:24:32   and we work our way back to the stuff earlier this week.

00:24:35   So we all woke up this morning

00:24:37   to an article by Mark Gurman.

00:24:41   As a meta comment, I will say this is written only by him,

00:24:45   and it's way more clear than the stuff

00:24:47   he has to write with other people

00:24:48   that has lots of hedging and stuff.

00:24:49   Like, I read this article top to bottom,

00:24:52   I have problems with it, but it all made sense,

00:24:54   unlike some of his joint writing he does with other people,

00:24:57   which I don't blame Mark for.

00:24:58   I'm sure he's got editors somewhere

00:25:00   to make him do that sort of stuff.

00:25:01   But to recap this if you haven't seen it,

00:25:03   Mark Gurman lays out a timeline for the rollout

00:25:09   of what he is still calling Marzipan,

00:25:11   which not everyone thinks that's the name, but whatever.

00:25:13   We're calling it that for lack of a better term.

00:25:16   So he's laying out the case that this is going to be

00:25:21   a three-year story starting in 2019,

00:25:26   that developers will be able to port,

00:25:29   I'm going to use the word porting, again,

00:25:31   lack of a better term, but build their iPad apps

00:25:35   and bundles for the Mac App Store.

00:25:37   So this is sort of like phase one of Marzipan.

00:25:40   He's saying this will be in 2019.

00:25:43   So it's assuming we'll see this at WODC

00:25:46   and in the next version of macOS,

00:25:48   where iPad apps can run on the Mac,

00:25:51   just like news and home and all that sort of stuff.

00:25:56   So that is where he says things are going to begin,

00:26:01   which makes sense, right?

00:26:03   Like it's the closest thing, I think,

00:26:06   to a Mac app as an iPad app.

00:26:08   So like, eh, I could see where this would be

00:26:11   where things begin.

00:26:12   What do y'all think?

00:26:13   - Yeah, makes sense, especially because it's not like,

00:26:18   I think the report says it will not be a bundle

00:26:22   on the app server like an iPad and a Mac app together,

00:26:26   but as a developer you will just be able to take your code for an iPad app

00:26:30   and it'll mostly work out of the box as a Mac app.

00:26:36   So it remains to be seen how evolved,

00:26:39   compared to the current crop of Marzipan apps, the final framework will be.

00:26:44   But the idea being that you don't have to learn a different framework from scratch,

00:26:49   you don't have to deal with UIKit and AppKit at the same time,

00:26:53   it'll just be UIKit all the way.

00:26:55   It'll just be iOS frameworks that now also work on the Mac.

00:26:58   So it opens the opportunity for iPad app developers

00:27:03   to bring their apps to the Mac.

00:27:06   Whereas now there's a barrier to entry for iOS developers

00:27:10   of which there are more than Mac developers like it or not.

00:27:14   This is the era where we live in.

00:27:17   All those developers, young developers,

00:27:19   all kinds of developers that are making iPad software

00:27:23   can now make Mac software.

00:27:24   And I think that's a beautiful thing.

00:27:26   And it'll drive some people crazy,

00:27:29   and it'll make other people like us happy, I think.

00:27:32   But the technicalities of that will be interesting.

00:27:36   Like, will you be able to tell a Marzipan app

00:27:40   from a real Mac app?

00:27:42   Probably.

00:27:43   Will there be some kind of--

00:27:44   - I think so.

00:27:45   - Will there be some kind of tribal sort of taking sides

00:27:50   among developers and users?

00:27:51   Yes, knowing people, they will take sides.

00:27:54   already happening right like if people are already angry about this and it's not here yet yeah but uh

00:27:59   i think it's a good idea the thing that i remain the thing that i remain the most interested about

00:28:03   which is something that mark can't know and no one will know for like like at least six to eight

00:28:10   months after um wwdc probably is like what effect this has on mac slash ipad development like how

00:28:21   does something like this change the way that apps on either platform is made?

00:28:25   Will people put more effort into their iPad apps than they did before and push them further than

00:28:32   they did before because they'll be able to run on the Mac as well? I'm really intrigued to see

00:28:38   what this ends up doing. Does it mean that we end up with a bunch of not incredible Mac apps,

00:28:47   but we end up with a bunch of Mac apps that didn't exist otherwise, that we're all happy exist now,

00:28:53   or do we end up in a situation which is the one that I hope, which is that

00:28:56   iPad development gets pushed forward more aggressively than it has been in years because

00:29:03   of the fact that you get this like two for one, and also you end up with more fresh Mac apps again

00:29:10   for the same reason, because there's now a two for one.

00:29:14   I guess the idea would be that if you now have the tools to bring your iPad app to the

00:29:20   Mac, but the Mac audience expects a certain degree of functionality, and so as an iPad

00:29:28   developer you will be more incentivized to care about stuff like keyboard shortcuts or

00:29:33   keyboard navigation or certain professional features, because if you are to sell your

00:29:41   app to the Mac audience, while those people expect a certain degree of functionality,

00:29:48   and that becomes sort of the tide that raises all boats in the sense that iPad users will

00:29:54   be happy and Mac users will be happy. So in theory that should be the plan, and I think

00:29:59   it's a clever plan if that is what Apple is doing. My only concern is, and I guess it

00:30:05   just comes with territory, it's not something that can be avoided, that there will be a

00:30:10   bunch of poor and useless ports of iPad apps just because they can exist. But this is something

00:30:18   that we see all the time whenever Apple opens up a new platform like the Apple Watch App

00:30:23   Store or the iMessage App Store. Like, there will be useless ports that are released just

00:30:30   because they can exist. But I think we can, you know, we will be able to separate those

00:30:37   that make sense from those that do not make sense. And also I'm interested to see like,

00:30:42   will this be a solution for companies like Twitter or Slack to, in the case of Twitter,

00:30:49   to actually offer a Mac app again even though their iPad... But that's the point, even though

00:30:54   their iPad app is not great, if they now have the tools to make you work on the Mac, they might just

00:31:00   fix the iPad app and take better advantage of the screen, because then Mac users will complain as

00:31:06   well. So it's a sort of catch two birds with one stone scenario here. And I think

00:31:13   the possible benefits of this approach are more like they are worth the

00:31:25   trade-off and the possible disadvantages and the possible downsides of doing this.

00:31:30   This has to be the calculus that Apple is doing that yes there will be some Mac

00:31:35   apps that do not feel like, I don't know, Final Cut or what's a good Mac app these days?

00:31:42   BB Edit. Like, there will be these apps that you can tell they come from the iPad. Still,

00:31:49   though, it's better than not have those apps at all and better than to have Electron apps

00:31:54   instead. So...

00:31:55   Yeah, I honestly don't see how there is a downside to this because the apps that weren't

00:32:01   going to be made with these tools whenever going to be made like this.

00:32:05   You know, like BB Edit is not going to go to this

00:32:09   and strip a bunch of functionality out.

00:32:12   Rather, that's not going to happen.

00:32:13   Like panic are not going to be like, oh, lol transmit doesn't work on the Mac.

00:32:19   Now we're going to revive an iOS app and port it back.

00:32:22   Yeah. Right.

00:32:23   Like it's not going to change that, but it's going to add in a bunch of new stuff.

00:32:28   And I don't understand necessarily why this is a problem.

00:32:31   Like I also saw, because part of this is right, the 2021,

00:32:35   that there'll be single binaries, right?

00:32:36   So you can have a Mac, an iPad, an iPhone app in theory,

00:32:40   which could all be combining together and combining the app stores.

00:32:44   And I've seen people complaining today that, oh, no,

00:32:47   this is now Apple taking more money away from us.

00:32:49   I don't see that happening either, because most of the developers

00:32:53   that would have an issue with this are probably not even using the Mac app store anyway.

00:32:59   And I also don't imagine that changing.

00:33:01   - As far as we know, Apple has no plans

00:33:04   to end non-app store distribution on the Mac.

00:33:08   This isn't, that isn't none of these stories.

00:33:10   So those classic Mac apps--

00:33:12   - There's like a million times

00:33:13   they could have done that before now,

00:33:14   and I don't think that this makes it any more likely

00:33:17   one way or the other. - I don't either.

00:33:19   So 2019, iPad apps coming to the Mac.

00:33:22   2020, iPhone apps can be ported,

00:33:25   again, as separate app bundles.

00:33:27   Gurman says this is because of difficulty

00:33:30   with the screen size differences.

00:33:32   So maybe Apple's struggling how to make iPhone apps

00:33:35   not just look like rectangles on the Mac.

00:33:38   My question here with this is,

00:33:40   well, what about universal iOS apps?

00:33:42   So if I have a universal app and I make it narrow,

00:33:45   will it load the iPhone UI on the Mac?

00:33:48   I would assume that it would.

00:33:49   Something about this being,

00:33:52   like iPad and iPhone apps being separate by a year

00:33:55   feels a little weird to me.

00:33:59   - It feels to me that there's like something will happen

00:34:01   between 2019 and 2020.

00:34:04   Like there's something else,

00:34:05   like there's a second like shoe to drop that it's like.

00:34:08   - I don't know.

00:34:09   I think what Myke is saying is correct.

00:34:11   I think there will be either like some major change

00:34:13   to Xcode or maybe specifically to interface builder.

00:34:16   Maybe that's, Gruber was talking about this

00:34:21   a few months ago.

00:34:23   like a new way to design interfaces that when you take into account the constraints of an

00:34:30   iPhone interface and you want to make it scale up to fill a bigger display, the current solution

00:34:36   doesn't work and so you will have to have a different system which explains the like

00:34:43   2019 for iPad and 2020 for iPhone. Like it feels there's a technological step needed

00:34:49   in between, otherwise why would there be any difference between iPad and iPhone?

00:34:54   And if it's a screen problem...

00:34:56   Yeah, this was that whole discussion that occurred before WWDC

00:35:01   last year, where John Gruber was saying that Mark Gorman was wrong

00:35:06   and that Marzipan wasn't what it was.

00:35:09   It was the idea of creating this system of

00:35:13   UI being made completely differently, right?

00:35:17   And that you would make all these declarations...

00:35:19   Clarity UI, thank you, that was the word, yes.

00:35:23   So, but then it was like, then there was this kind of like a peeing match between the two

00:35:28   of them, right?

00:35:29   Where like, German was like, no, it's my way.

00:35:31   And John was like, no, it's my way.

00:35:32   And then German won out.

00:35:34   But that doesn't mean the Gruber is wrong.

00:35:37   Yeah.

00:35:38   That what what Gruber was talking about wasn't something else, which could be that thing.

00:35:44   feels like we it's like, you know, trying to draw a big

00:35:48   picture, and we just have a small viewport here and there.

00:35:51   I clearly there's more to this stitching this together that we

00:35:53   don't know yet. But that makes it fun to talk about months in

00:35:57   advance.

00:35:57   Like you said, Myke in 2021, the single binary so a single app

00:36:04   bundle could be downloaded on the Mac, iPad and iPhone, which

00:36:08   Gurman said would effectively combine the app stores. So I

00:36:12   I don't know if that means that all iOS apps at this point could work on the Mac unmodified.

00:36:18   Clearly that means ARM Macs by 2021 are a thing, right?

00:36:23   Because for 2019 for an iPad app to be ported to a MacBook Pro that has an Intel processor

00:36:28   in it, it is going to have to be recompiled to some degree.

00:36:31   Right, but it depends on how you look at the iPad and the iPhone app stores today, right?

00:36:39   where they are combined, but it's not like,

00:36:43   iPhone apps are not presented front and center,

00:36:47   you know what I mean?

00:36:48   It's like, what way do we look at this?

00:36:50   Do you consider the iPhone and iPad app stores

00:36:52   right now to be the same?

00:36:55   - I mean, kind of.

00:36:57   It's confusing, right?

00:36:59   And I think that the undercurrent for me in all this

00:37:01   is what does this timeline say about ARM Macs?

00:37:05   I'm of two minds of this.

00:37:08   If ARM Macs are still a couple of years out, then Apple's asking developers to take an

00:37:14   iPad app or an iPhone app eventually, do the work to make it run on an Intel machine, and

00:37:21   then, "Oh, by the way, 18 months later, 24 months later, oh, there's ARM Macs.

00:37:25   Look at all that work you did to make your iOS app work on an Intel machine?

00:37:29   We don't need that anymore.

00:37:31   Just discard all that work you did."

00:37:33   That's not great.

00:37:34   But then the flip side is worse, where if they roll this out with a new ARM MacBook

00:37:38   and say this only works on the new MacBook

00:37:39   and it will only work on our Macs

00:37:41   and all those Intel Macs we sold and still sell today,

00:37:44   they don't get any of this.

00:37:45   That's also bad.

00:37:46   So again, there's some middle ground here.

00:37:49   There's something that we can't see.

00:37:52   It may be that preparing an iOS app for Intel

00:37:55   is not a big deal.

00:37:57   Maybe it's better than it was during the PowerPC transition.

00:38:01   Maybe they've really gotten it where

00:38:04   it's not a big deal at all.

00:38:06   Or maybe you don't have to do it

00:38:06   and they're doing some emulation for you automatically.

00:38:10   You know, where you just, it's actually the same code

00:38:13   and they run a translation layer like Rosetta was.

00:38:16   So it may be that it doesn't require ARM Macs at all.

00:38:20   I mean, yes, the chat room is yelling at me,

00:38:21   yes, Mac OS supports fat binaries,

00:38:24   I've done that for a long time.

00:38:25   But like, this is a new era and a new set of problems

00:38:29   from PowerPC to Intel and Apple's got to tell a story there

00:38:33   that makes sense for developers to do it, right?

00:38:36   So when they switched to Intel, the story was, hey, if you recompile your apps, they're

00:38:40   going to be four to five times faster.

00:38:42   Like you know, you're going to be able to take benefit of all this Intel stuff, and

00:38:46   you won't be dependent on Rosetta.

00:38:48   And eventually Rosetta is going to go away.

00:38:50   So you should do this.

00:38:53   That is not the story this time.

00:38:54   And so Apple needs to have a compelling reason for developers to go down this road, because

00:38:59   They're asking them to take a product and an application and port it to a less popular

00:39:07   platform.

00:39:08   This is the truth.

00:39:09   I love the Mac more than almost anyone, it feels like.

00:39:12   It is a less popular platform.

00:39:13   You're asking developers to do something that isn't a guaranteed win for them business-wise.

00:39:20   So you've got to make that as easy as possible, and I think that's another factor here to

00:39:23   consider.

00:39:24   It's all very exhausting to think about, guys.

00:39:28   I did want to point out one thing in this article that I didn't love.

00:39:32   I said I wanted to go past.

00:39:34   Pretty high in the article, Gorman writes, "Each new app is another revenue opportunity

00:39:39   for Apple because it takes a cut of many app-related purchases and subscriptions.

00:39:43   The company has positioned its services division as a major growth area."

00:39:48   Now, he does go on later and say, "Oh, well, it's good for users and developers too."

00:39:55   And I think I'm reading into what he wrote, right?

00:39:59   But I think the order of those things is wrong.

00:40:00   I think Apple is doing this because it believes it's good for the platforms.

00:40:05   It's a lifeboat for the Mac, which has an app ecosystem that is not healthy.

00:40:09   It is good for users and developers.

00:40:12   It benefits users to be on all Apple platforms if their apps work everywhere.

00:40:18   And it's good for developers potentially because they could make more money.

00:40:21   Yes, the side effect of that is Apple makes more money, but I don't read any of this as

00:40:26   Apple doing this to marginally improve their services revenue because Apple is spending

00:40:34   who knows how much money in engineering talent and engineering hours to make all this stuff

00:40:43   work.

00:40:44   They're never going to make that back on the 30% stuff of what, you know, if these apps

00:40:50   charged separately from their iOS bundles, right? Like that math doesn't make any sense to me. So

00:40:54   I just, everyone right now wants to put every Apple story through the context of the services

00:41:00   revenue. And I just I think that's a little lazy and not fair to what the company's trying to do.

00:41:05   Yeah, I guess I see why like, at first I didn't, I didn't understand why you dislike the point. But

00:41:13   then in the context of now every single thing that Apple does is parsed through the lens of

00:41:19   Apple is now a services company? Yeah, I mean, of course they are investing in this stuff

00:41:26   because they want to make it easier to buy software and to buy it on more platforms.

00:41:31   But then again, it'll like this very idea of having a single binary that runs across

00:41:38   multiple devices potentially it means Apple is taking 30% of a single price, like a single

00:41:47   price or a single purchase from the user.

00:41:49   So it kind of runs counter to the very premise

00:41:52   of they're doing it because of services,

00:41:54   because it means less revenue in theory.

00:41:56   - Yeah, if you wanted to do it as services,

00:41:59   you would do all of this, but keep the app store separate.

00:42:02   - Exactly.

00:42:03   I think the point that I wanted to make in this segment is

00:42:07   the more we hear about this stuff,

00:42:12   and now we have more details of this possible timeline

00:42:15   for 2020 and 2021, the more it seems clear

00:42:19   that we are moving, like it or not,

00:42:21   to a point where there will be a single Apple platform.

00:42:25   I don't want to say Apple OS yet,

00:42:29   even though I think that's what we'll have in five years,

00:42:32   but the idea of a shared app platform

00:42:35   between iOS and the Mac is the end goal.

00:42:38   And I feel like starting with apps

00:42:43   and slowly merging, starting with iPad apps

00:42:46   can now run on the Mac,

00:42:48   and then make it possible for release the first Macs

00:42:53   with ARM chips inside made by Apple,

00:42:57   and then make it possible for iPhone apps to run on the Mac,

00:43:00   and then make a single binary.

00:43:02   I mean, at that point,

00:43:03   you're just unifying multiple devices into one app platform.

00:43:10   And once you reach that, in 2022, for example,

00:43:14   why not just have a single Apple OS?

00:43:17   So the idea of, and this is my belief

00:43:21   and there's other people that would agree with this,

00:43:24   but I think the future should be one

00:43:28   of a single operating system that can scale

00:43:31   across different types of computers,

00:43:34   different types of screens, different interactions.

00:43:36   I'm not arguing in favor of the death of the Mac

00:43:40   or saying the Mac should go away.

00:43:43   I think this distinction between iOS and macOS is weird.

00:43:48   And I think we're reaching the point where,

00:43:50   first with apps, and then, and yes, I know

00:43:54   that Apple said no to combining iOS and macOS,

00:43:59   but we all know that Apple can say one thing

00:44:01   and have dozens of invisible footnotes

00:44:05   in every statement that they make publicly.

00:44:07   And in that case, it will not be merging iOS and macOS,

00:44:12   it'll be a new thing.

00:44:13   - Yeah, yeah, it's like technically we didn't merge them,

00:44:17   it's brand new.

00:44:18   What you talking about?

00:44:20   - This is pure Apple playbook.

00:44:21   They didn't merge them, they made a new thing.

00:44:24   So I feel like you can still have

00:44:27   what you love about the Mac,

00:44:28   you can still have what you love about iOS,

00:44:31   but you can remove this entire overhead

00:44:33   of some things run on macOS and macOS has certain frameworks

00:44:38   and interactions and other things work only on iOS.

00:44:41   It's a lot of work for everybody.

00:44:42   It's a lot of work for users to understand.

00:44:44   It's a lot of work for Apple.

00:44:45   It's a lot of work for developers.

00:44:47   Why not make it easy?

00:44:48   We have the tools to make software that can adapt,

00:44:53   that can change depending on the device that you're using,

00:44:57   whether it's touch, cursor, big screen, small screen,

00:45:00   multiple windows, multiple monitors.

00:45:01   like we are advanced enough, technologically speaking, to have this kind of stuff.

00:45:07   Other companies are already doing it.

00:45:09   So I feel like, you know, I keep coming back to this metaphor of like a song, like music.

00:45:20   Like I think of the future of the single Apple OS, the single Apple platform, as like you have the same song

00:45:30   and you can listen to the same song using different devices.

00:45:34   You can listen to the song with your iPhone speakers,

00:45:37   you can listen to the same song with the HomePod,

00:45:39   and you can use your earbuds, your AirPods,

00:45:42   your headphones, your car stereo,

00:45:44   but it's always the same song.

00:45:45   It's always the same, at a basic level, the same experience,

00:45:49   but it changes, like on your HomePod,

00:45:51   you hear the bass is better and louder,

00:45:54   and maybe with your over-ear headphones,

00:45:57   you hear other details better,

00:45:59   but it's still the same song and the idea of it's still the same OS,

00:46:03   but you just switch computers and you switch screens and sizes and workstations.

00:46:09   That's the future that I want to see.

00:46:11   And it's going to make a lot of people uneasy,

00:46:15   but I feel it's the right thing to do.

00:46:18   And this is a timeline.

00:46:19   This rumor provides a timeline where we're now in 2019.

00:46:23   I strongly believe that by 2023, so five years,

00:46:28   will have this kind of future.

00:46:30   One last thing in the report, just basically thrown in

00:46:34   at the bottom was the Mac Pro may be showing off at WWDC.

00:46:37   So keeping an eye out for my pick for the year, I guess.

00:46:41   I appreciate that, Germin.

00:46:43   I think we all felt that, right?

00:46:46   I don't think that's a surprise.

00:46:48   This seems inevitable.

00:46:50   All right, so we have some more stuff to talk about,

00:46:53   but I want to tell you about our second sponsor.

00:46:55   This episode of connected is brought to you by our friends at Luna display.

00:47:01   Having extra space when working from your Mac is super useful.

00:47:05   It can make tiresome tasks more enjoyable by removing that command tab frustration.

00:47:12   And think about it, we have iPads and iPads have stunning displays.

00:47:16   And maybe you like the idea of having another screen for your Mac, but don't want to go

00:47:20   out and purchase another big bulky display.

00:47:23   Luna Display is the answer because it lets you use that stunning iPad display

00:47:26   with your Mac with just a tiny bit of hardware. Luna Display provides crystal

00:47:32   clear image quality, reliable performance, and wireless flexibility. You just pop in

00:47:38   a little hardware to your Mac and you're good to go. And if you don't have a Wi-Fi

00:47:42   connection, say you're traveling, no worries you can just connect directly

00:47:46   via USB. And the great thing about Luna Display is how portable the whole setup

00:47:51   So you can be productive at the office, in the studio, or again as you travel.

00:47:56   It's a super smart way to work with more screen real estate while you're on the go.

00:48:01   LunaX is a complete extension of your Mac. It's going to support your external keyboard,

00:48:06   as well as your Apple Pencil and touch interactions.

00:48:09   Basically it turns your Mac into an iOS app, which is something you guys have said.

00:48:13   That's really how it feels. It's great.

00:48:16   And the all new liquid video engine brings significantly reduced latency and a faster screen refresh rate.

00:48:22   It feels native, it's so fast.

00:48:24   I've been using Luna Display for a while now and the setup process is really easy.

00:48:30   So you get the iOS app, you get the Mac app, and then you just plug in the little bit of hardware.

00:48:36   Mine is just plugged in right to the back of my iMac Pro.

00:48:39   And anytime I want to use it, I just fire up the Luna Display application and I'm ready to go in just seconds.

00:48:46   It's not a long process every time.

00:48:47   It just works.

00:48:50   Listeners of Connected can get an exclusive 10%

00:48:53   off their Luna Display.

00:48:56   Just go to lunadisplay.com and enter the promo code

00:48:59   connected at checkout.

00:49:01   That's lunadisplay.com and promo code connected.

00:49:05   So don't put this off any longer.

00:49:07   Travel smarter.

00:49:08   Use that iPad display with your Mac

00:49:10   for additional screen real estate.

00:49:12   So head on over to lunadisplay.com

00:49:14   use the promo code connected for 10% off.

00:49:17   Our thanks to Luna Display for their support of this show

00:49:20   and Real AFM.

00:49:21   - So our good friend, Mr. Ming-Chi Kuo,

00:49:25   dropped a beautiful graphic.

00:49:27   You've all seen the graphic, right?

00:49:30   You've seen the graphic, it's so fun, I love it.

00:49:32   There's like a rabbit and a pig

00:49:35   and there's like some flowers and it's all different colors

00:49:39   and I love the font that they chose.

00:49:42   My buddy Ming Chi uses Pixelmator to get this stuff done.

00:49:46   I'm not surprised. It's very cool.

00:49:50   I like this graphic a lot.

00:49:51   I don't it's like one of the things I don't know why they chose to display

00:49:54   that way, but I kind of love that they did.

00:49:57   But there's a there's a whole ton of things on here,

00:50:00   and we're probably not going to cover all of them.

00:50:02   We should maybe just tackle a few of the things that's reported in this.

00:50:06   So I guess the big, big thing is the

00:50:11   MacBook Pro. There's a rumored 16-inch MacBook Pro coming sometime this year.

00:50:19   Like all of the stuff that Ming-Chi Kuo is talking about is stuff that he expects to be this year.

00:50:23   Stephen, do you want to give us the breakdown of what this MacBook Pro could look like and/or

00:50:31   what you think it might look like based upon the information that Kuo has given?

00:50:36   Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, basically, the the whole of this part of his report is that Apple

00:50:42   will be releasing a new MacBook Pro between 16 and 16.5 inches in size. Remember, his sources are

00:50:49   like supply chain type sources. Like he's rarely wrong about size stuff, right? He knew the size

00:50:55   of the iPhones for this past year, you know, way in advance, and he knew the size of the 10s,

00:51:00   the XR or the Max early on.

00:51:02   So when he has something to say about dimensions, I generally believe it.

00:51:08   So 16, 16.5 inch MacBook Pro with what he's calling an all new design.

00:51:14   So this is not just the 15 inch MacBook Pro stretch.

00:51:19   So some sort of new design.

00:51:22   I sort of struggled to understand what that would look like because I feel like the MacBook

00:51:26   Pro is about as simple and as plain of a notebook design as you can get besides the touch bar,

00:51:31   but I guess we'll see what they have to do there.

00:51:35   So this is really interesting for a bunch of reasons.

00:51:40   The current MacBook Pro, the big one, is 15 inches.

00:51:46   And some people have said, "Well, this is just going to be them doing the bezel-less

00:51:50   thing and shrinking the bezels around that display."

00:51:55   And I'm not sure that's actually what's gonna happen here.

00:51:59   So the current MacBook Pro is actually a 15.4 inch diagonal display.

00:52:04   I don't have one of these 15 inch MacBook Pros in person, but looking at my 13 inch

00:52:08   MacBook Pro of the same design, I'm actually not sure there's enough bezel left to stretch

00:52:15   it and hit the 16 or 16 and a half inches he's talking about.

00:52:20   So I tend to think this is a bigger notebook.

00:52:22   Like it's actually physically bigger than the 15 inch MacBook Pro.

00:52:26   What I thought about instantly was when Apple introduced the retina

00:52:31   MacBook Pro back in 2012, it was a new design, whole new machine, right?

00:52:37   Like no spinning hard drives, different IO, different design.

00:52:41   Of course, the retina display being at the heart of it.

00:52:43   And it was introduced as a high end model above the other MacBook Pros.

00:52:49   And over time, the Retina display and the new design

00:52:53   slowly worked its way down.

00:52:55   And before we knew it, after a few years,

00:52:59   all the 15-inch MacBook Pros were Retina,

00:53:01   and then all the 13-inch MacBook Pros were Retina.

00:53:03   And then they've slowly phased the other design out.

00:53:06   That's kind of what I think could happen here.

00:53:09   I think that we could see a 15-inch and a 16.5-inch

00:53:13   for a while, and then this new design come down.

00:53:17   I would like--

00:53:18   Yeah, because you've got to guess that a machine like this one is going to be more expensive

00:53:23   as a starting point than what they currently have, right?

00:53:26   I would think so.

00:53:28   There's still this thing of size and price being sort of a ratio with Apple, so a bigger

00:53:33   machine you should kind of assume will demand a higher price.

00:53:36   So that could be an outcome here.

00:53:38   I would like to see them change the design all at once, but that's just coming from a

00:53:42   frustration point of the MacBook Pro.

00:53:45   But I do think that there's demand for this.

00:53:47   I think there were people who were sad when the 17 went away.

00:53:50   The 17 inch never entered the retina era.

00:53:52   And there are people who do want more space,

00:53:56   but more importantly, they want better performance.

00:53:58   And the 15 inch, we're gonna talk about this in a second,

00:54:02   the 15 inch MacBook Pro, I think it's impressive,

00:54:05   but they could do more with it

00:54:06   if they had better cooling and more space.

00:54:09   And so this could be an even more powerful machine.

00:54:13   They could bring in some like really high,

00:54:15   You know, AMD has a new line of mobile graphics with all the RTX stuff, and they could bring

00:54:22   that into this potentially.

00:54:23   It could really be an interesting machine.

00:54:26   And hey, you know, they could give it great battery life and let it be cooler.

00:54:32   It's easy to pin all of our desires on this machine, so that's what I'm doing.

00:54:35   But I think it's going to be a new high-end model that introduces something new that eventually

00:54:39   comes to the rest of them.

00:54:41   So Quo refers to it as an all new design, right?

00:54:45   Like all new design.

00:54:47   What does all new design mean to you other than it's got a bigger screen?

00:54:52   It means that it's got a revised keyboard.

00:54:58   I think if they say it's an all new design and it's the same keyboard, people are going

00:55:01   to be upset.

00:55:02   So I think they're going to address the keyboard.

00:55:04   But I think that maybe they bring it more in line with the iPad, potentially, the way

00:55:12   the iPad looks.

00:55:13   I don't suspect that we'll see a big change in terms of I/O.

00:55:17   I think it's still going to be Thunderbolt 3 only.

00:55:20   I think it will be less of a big deal when they went from the 2015 to the 2016.

00:55:25   That was a radical departure.

00:55:27   I see this being less of a departure than that was.

00:55:32   I struggle sometimes with my imagination and these sorts of things so who knows

00:55:35   I'm just wondering because like I was talking to Jason about this a bit on upgrade and I want to see what you think I

00:55:41   Kind of feel like the laptop design is is been has been solved like there isn't really

00:55:47   Much more at least that Apple will want to do

00:55:52   There there are things that other companies are doing like making them into convertible devices

00:55:59   Putting leather on the outside of them like that stuff that's happening, but I can't imagine a MacBook Pro

00:56:04   Looking that much different when it's closed for example than what they currently do yeah

00:56:11   I mean they love thin aluminum machines right like it's and they're not gonna. I don't think they're gonna experiment with materials very much

00:56:18   You know

00:56:20   Bring the bezels down replace the keyboard, and maybe you ditch the touch bar in this or something

00:56:25   - I was just about to ask you that.

00:56:28   Touch bar or no touch bar?

00:56:30   - That is, I mean, so, colored through my personal

00:56:34   experience with the touch bar, I would say get rid of it,

00:56:36   and we never speak of it again.

00:56:38   You know, this is gonna be a pro level machine,

00:56:41   and I'm not sure that pros have been really sold on it.

00:56:45   You know, 'cause they have the type of users who

00:56:48   are wired into keyboard shortcuts and stuff, you know?

00:56:51   I would love that this would be maybe the first machine

00:56:54   that had touch as an option,

00:56:55   but I don't see them doing like a two in one

00:56:58   Surface Book type thing.

00:57:00   I just, I feel like Apple's allergic to it

00:57:02   with the Mac for some reason.

00:57:03   Which is a bummer.

00:57:05   - Yeah.

00:57:06   - I think they should do it,

00:57:07   but I don't see it coming with this.

00:57:08   - Yeah, okay.

00:57:11   - This MacBook Pro though is gonna have a buddy,

00:57:14   potentially.

00:57:15   - Yes.

00:57:17   - Which is perhaps even more exciting

00:57:19   because it, I think could go to a wider number of users.

00:57:23   So Apple, you know, been out of the display business

00:57:26   for a while and he's saying they're gonna come back in

00:57:29   with a 31.6 inch, 6K, he calls that 6K 3K,

00:57:34   which I think is just like a 6K,

00:57:38   I think he's talking about the horizontal

00:57:39   and vertical resolution, but a 6K monitor

00:57:42   powered by mini--

00:57:44   - Or it folds. - Or it folds.

00:57:46   Just like whatever Samsung is doing right now as a record.

00:57:49   - Uh-huh, 6K 3K.

00:57:51   Powered by mini LED, which is something Apple's been playing with.

00:57:55   I assumed that was gonna come to the watch first, but maybe it's gonna come here.

00:57:59   Clearly this display would look incredible, but I got to thinking, "Wait a second.

00:58:05   What does Apple have that can drive a 6K display?"

00:58:07   And that led me down basically like 45 minutes of reading Thunderbolt spec sheets, so I have

00:58:12   some knowledge to drop on y'all.

00:58:15   - You had the greatest afternoon you could possibly give yourself.

00:58:20   Thunderbolt 3, which showed up in these MacBook Pros I've been talking about, can push two

00:58:25   4K 60Hz displays or one 60Hz 5K display.

00:58:33   This is basically over a single...

00:58:34   When you talk about the number of ports versus the number of lanes with Thunderbolt, it gets

00:58:39   confusing.

00:58:40   I'm sort of glossing over some of that, but two 4K displays, one 5K display is what Thunderbolt

00:58:44   can do.

00:58:45   is through DisplayPort, which is a connection type that rides on top of

00:58:50   Thunderbolt 3. So remember Thunderbolt 3 uses the USB C connector but it also

00:58:56   carries Thunderbolt 2 and DisplayPort and like USB A and like all these other

00:58:59   things crammed in for the ride. It's it's a little confusing to talk about.

00:59:05   DisplayPort 1.4, which is the the newest standard DisplayPort, can drive 8k

00:59:13   displays. Now to do this you need the updated Thunderbolt 3 controller that

00:59:18   Intel released last year called Titan Ridge. So it's still Thunderbolt 3, the

00:59:23   port looks the same, it acts the same, but it's got more bandwidth. With the 2018

00:59:28   MacBook Pros, Apple moved to Titan Ridge controllers. It's just in the notebooks

00:59:33   and it is more bandwidth, it's super speedy, but Apple didn't fully implement

00:59:42   DisplayPort 1.4 on that controller. So the hardware, the connection is

00:59:51   capable of driving an 8k display, but the crummy GPUs Apple puts in their

00:59:57   notebooks is not capable of driving that. So Apple caps these machines at 5k

01:00:03   output. My question initially was can Thunderbolt 3 even drive a 6k display?

01:00:07   The answer is yes. The sub answer is but none of Apple current's Thunderbolt 3

01:00:11   machines can do it because of the GPU situation.

01:00:14   So it's like a good news, bad news.

01:00:17   Yeah. Good news is Apple has the ability to do this.

01:00:21   Bad news. It's going to be like we're drawing a line in the sand.

01:00:25   Right. Because clearly this monitor is for this new mythical MacBook Pro and the Mac Pro.

01:00:30   Like that's what it's for. Right.

01:00:31   Like it's for those two things.

01:00:33   We'll maybe get to something else in a minute.

01:00:35   But like that's what we're assuming that, you know, they will probably be like, oh, hey, in June,

01:00:41   we have this MacBook Pro, here is that MacBook Pro, here is a monitor, these will be available

01:00:46   in four weeks, and here's a teaser about the Mac Pro which will also be able to use this

01:00:50   thing, right?

01:00:51   Totally.

01:00:52   That's totally what's gonna happen.

01:00:53   Because for Ming-Chi Kuo to know about this stuff right now must mean it's closer than

01:00:56   the Mac Pro which he seems to know nothing on except the fact that it's coming, but he

01:01:00   didn't know that, everybody knows that, Apple said it, so like, he doesn't necessarily know

01:01:04   anything that Mark Gurman doesn't know, or that I don't know, right?

01:01:08   Like it's just, we all know it.

01:01:09   I came down, going down this rabbit hole, they make a 15 inch MacBook Pro with a beefier

01:01:15   GPU, now they rolled it out in the fall.

01:01:18   There was speculation at the time that Apple could enable DisplayPort 1.4 for that machine

01:01:24   with a firmware update and they haven't done it.

01:01:26   So either that GPU isn't powerful enough or they're just unwilling to do it for whatever

01:01:31   reason.

01:01:33   This is doable.

01:01:34   I think you're right.

01:01:35   display would work with the 2019 MacBook Pro and the 2019 Mac Pro and the 2019

01:01:41   you know iMac Pro or whatever but not current machines which that's not crazy

01:01:48   uncommon when Apple's route displays you know they had I just wrote this piece

01:01:53   for Federico about macworld 2009 and that was when they were moving to

01:01:56   DisplayPort for the first time before Thunderbolt just regular display port

01:02:00   and mini display port and they had an the LED cinema display which used main

01:02:06   display port and then they rolled out Thunderbolt max and then they had the

01:02:10   thunderbolt display but the thunderbolt display was only compatible with new max

01:02:16   it wasn't backwards compatible even though the connector was the same so

01:02:20   this would be a similar situation here I think where it's compatible with these

01:02:24   machines even though the ports look the same they're not the same which is a

01:02:28   It's a little confusing if you're just going into a store to buy something, but you can

01:02:32   say, "Oh, well, it supports a 2019 machine.

01:02:34   I have a 2017, so it won't work."

01:02:36   So it's not great, but people can deal with it.

01:02:40   Where this gets interesting is what we're going to talk about after the break, because

01:02:46   Federico had a really good question for me that we went further down.

01:02:50   We went deeper into Intel spec sheets.

01:02:54   Before we do, I just have one thing I wanted to mention about the monitor, right?

01:02:57   30 inches and that's just funny to me because it feels like monitors never got bigger than that.

01:03:01   Yeah, I mean...

01:03:02   Right, like it's just a funny thing that like it seems that on a desk, I mean I think for good

01:03:08   reason we found the maximum size of monitors like 10 years ago.

01:03:12   Yeah, I mean Apple had that 30 inch and I remember if you had it you were like

01:03:17   baller status. It was really expensive.

01:03:20   It's huge, it's huge.

01:03:20   Yeah, I mean 30...

01:03:22   But like even gaming monitors though, like you know, the ultra wides excluded,

01:03:26   but by and large they're in the high 20 inches. Well part of that is based on resolution right,

01:03:33   so if you don't want to have a 4k display above a certain size point because then it's like you can

01:03:38   see the pixels again so part of that like you know that's there's some fudge there I think but

01:03:42   it's really interesting yeah it's a bit it's a big gonna be a big boy uh hooked up to our

01:03:48   Mac Pros at the end of the year. I'm sure Casey's very excited. I'm actually very excited about it

01:03:55   But it's becoming more exciting the more I hear about it.

01:03:59   Like that screen sounds berserk.

01:04:01   - Mm-hmm.

01:04:02   It's gonna be cool.

01:04:04   This episode of Connected is brought to you by Care/Of.

01:04:08   Care/Of is a monthly subscription vitamin service that delivers completely personalized vitamin

01:04:13   and supplement packs right to your door.

01:04:16   You may have wondered at some point in the past whether you're getting all the vitamins

01:04:20   you need if you're taking care of yourself the best way possible.

01:04:23   And you're right to wonder because it turns out like 90% of us are lacking in at least

01:04:28   one vitamin or nutrient.

01:04:31   Care/of can help you figure out what you need with a fun online quiz.

01:04:34   And it asks things about your diet, health goals, lifestyle choices, that sort of thing.

01:04:39   It just takes five minutes and it works out what you need to add to your system.

01:04:46   And because they know you're busy, Care/of will send this stuff, send these vitamins

01:04:50   right to your door in personalized, easy to remember daily packs.

01:04:54   Which are great if you're traveling, right? Like if you have a prescription, you gotta like

01:04:59   count how many days you're gonna be gone. You don't have to worry about that. It's just

01:05:02   daily packs. And if you're vegan or vegetarian, they totally cater to that too. So everyone is

01:05:08   set. So Myke, I know you have been spending some time with Care/Of Vitamins. So how's it been going?

01:05:16   Yeah so I went through my favourite thing about Care Of actually is their quiz. So the quiz is

01:05:22   super easy, it asks you a bunch of questions and it's not daunting, you don't have like this long

01:05:27   list of questions, they just go through one at a time and it's nice and visual as well so it's just

01:05:31   big buttons with little illustrations on them and it says like "oh how do you feel about this,

01:05:35   what is your current feeling about this" and you can kind of go through and tweak everything.

01:05:39   It has nice graphics, it's got some personality to it and I really liked at the end of the quiz,

01:05:46   it kind of it shows you all of the things that it recommends that they end up setting up for you on

01:05:51   like a on like a plan and it goes through okay i think you might want this thing and this thing

01:05:56   and this thing and what i like is when you click into it it tells you why based upon the questions

01:06:01   that you gave so if you're then looking at it and be like oh i don't know what i think about this

01:06:06   is this something that i want is this something that is this the right mix for me it actually

01:06:10   tells you why based upon the answers that you gave and if you feel like you want to tweak anything

01:06:14   you can. I just really like that a system like this one walks you through it

01:06:18   really easily, like getting rid of the confusing and big questions, and then

01:06:23   gives you a nice breakdown at the end. And just because Steven asked me to, I

01:06:27   will say vitamins now, because it sounds more fun than vitamins. Vitamins. Vitamins.

01:06:33   Maybe someone can remix that for us with some sweet music in the background. Yep.

01:06:39   And guess what? We're still in the beginning of the year, so if you have

01:06:43   some health related goals for 2019, Care/of helps make sure that it sticks

01:06:47   by helping you build a routine that's made just for you. To take advantage of

01:06:51   this month's special New Year's offer for 50% off your first month of

01:06:55   personalized care of vitamins go to takecareof.com and enter the code

01:07:01   connected50. That's connected 5 0. That's takecareof.com and promo code

01:07:07   connected50 for 50% off your first month of vitamins. My thanks to Care/Of for

01:07:13   their support of this show and Real AFM. So we've been talking about this new

01:07:18   display 6k and Federico has what I've termed pixel lust. He's got that 4k

01:07:25   display but the man just wants more and so we started thinking about what would

01:07:30   happen if the iPad Pro got an update? Could it support something like this?

01:07:34   what would it what would it mean for it to be you know more capable than just

01:07:40   with a new Mac and that's where we get into USB 3.1 gen 2 yeah just the current

01:07:50   standard 10 gigabits per second bandwidth yeah we're just super fast but

01:07:55   not near enough for this sort of display right there's not enough bandwidth well

01:07:59   USB 3.2, dear friends, is out there on the horizon being tested. I don't know how

01:08:06   you test a USB spec. You know, do you make it run? Do you starve it and

01:08:12   see if it gets angry? I don't know what you do, but they're testing it and it

01:08:15   seems like USB 3.2 could answer some of these issues, but maybe not all of them.

01:08:21   So the bandwidth needed for 6k is beyond the 20 gigabits per second that USB 3.2

01:08:29   will offer. In my reading it seems like USB 3.2 could support a 5k display. So

01:08:39   right now like the iPad Pro or the OnePort MacBook can only drive the LG 4k

01:08:43   but the 5k requires Thunderbolt again for the additional bandwidth. So it may

01:08:48   be that the iPad Pro can push a 5k display if this new connector makes it

01:08:51   to the iPad or makes it to the new MacBook at some point. But it seems like

01:08:55   like from my understanding at least that 6k and higher is going to require

01:08:59   Thunderbolt and at this point that's not in an iPad. Yeah and it feels

01:09:07   like if Apple is indeed making this 6k display and assuming that again it would

01:09:15   just be strange I think if Apple were to release a display and it did not support

01:09:21   the iPad Pro. I think it would be strange, especially considering how they made a

01:09:28   big deal of external display support on the iPad Pro last year. Now, I just, I

01:09:33   cannot imagine Apple saying "we made a new display but it's only for Macs"

01:09:37   especially if the iPad Pro is gonna have some productivity enhancements in the

01:09:42   next version of iOS and maybe they're gonna have some external displays

01:09:45   support new stuff, new APIs or whatever. So I was thinking about the

01:09:52   rumor that we saw that Apple is indeed working on a spec bump for the iPad Pros

01:09:59   in 2019. So we were all just assuming that the next iPad Pro would come out in

01:10:04   2020 because they are on a two-year release cycle and you know

01:10:08   the iPad Pro just came out in November 2018 so the design is gonna stay the

01:10:13   for at least couple of years, but now there's this rumor saying that Apple is

01:10:17   working on a spec bump for the iPad Pros this year, and so I started wondering

01:10:22   what if this spec bump is necessary to make those new iPad Pros support the

01:10:29   new Apple display, the new 6K Apple display that they're supposedly making.

01:10:33   But if that is the case, I have to wonder, USB 3.2 is still in the testing stages,

01:10:40   It's not been widely adopted. I cannot think of any device that you can get off Amazon or any other consumer electronics product that currently supports USB 3.2 at 20 gigabits per second.

01:10:55   So could this mean that Apple is going to finally cave and bring Thunderbolt support to the iPad?

01:11:06   Is that even possible without an Intel GPU behind the scenes?

01:11:13   Or does this mean that the display will not support the iPad Pro?

01:11:18   So I'm just wondering what's the strangest outcome here?

01:11:25   that Apple releases a display that does not support the iPad Pro or that Apple has figured

01:11:30   out a way to bring Thunderbolt to the iPad Pro?

01:11:34   And I...

01:11:35   Well, the thing hanging over that question is, again, the ARM Mac.

01:11:43   I don't think Apple wants to drop Thunderbolt from the Mac.

01:11:45   And so at some point you've got to think they're going to bring Thunderbolt to ARM.

01:11:49   So Thunderbolt is an Intel technology,

01:11:51   but they have made it where OEMs can use it.

01:11:55   And I'm not sure if that means Apple could just

01:11:58   take it and stick it in an ARM machine,

01:12:00   or if it's even possible.

01:12:02   That's engineering way above my pay grade.

01:12:04   But it feels inevitable that Thunderbolt,

01:12:08   or something equivalent to it, will come to ARM devices made

01:12:11   by Apple.

01:12:12   I just don't know if it's now.

01:12:14   I think if they release this display

01:12:15   and it does not support the iPad Pro, that's a bummer.

01:12:18   But I don't think it--

01:12:20   I think that's definitely possible and actually probably

01:12:22   likely even.

01:12:24   I mean, I would love for Apple to bring some consistency

01:12:27   to this and say both the Mac and the iPad Pro,

01:12:30   they support USB-C, and they support Thunderbolt,

01:12:33   and DisplayPort 1.4.

01:12:35   And you can use the same 5K or 6K display

01:12:38   either with your Mac or your iPad Pro.

01:12:40   I think that would be the right thing to do, especially

01:12:42   because the USB spec is not advancing as quickly

01:12:47   as Thunderbolt 3 at this point. So we're still in the testing stages for something that is stuck at

01:12:53   20 gigabits per second and Thunderbolt 3 is already double that and shipping right now. So

01:13:00   before something like USB 3.2 Gen 2 or even USB 3.3 is available it'll be several years.

01:13:10   And again I think it's just strange to imagine that Apple is back in the display business but

01:13:15   but it just works with the Mac.

01:13:17   So personally, I think it's more likely/I wanna believe

01:13:22   the Thunderbolt is coming to the iPad Pro.

01:13:25   And there's also this rumor of a spec bump this year.

01:13:30   That would sort of remind me of when Apple made a big deal

01:13:35   with the iPad 3, the first to go Retina,

01:13:38   and then a few months later they did the iPad 4

01:13:40   because they needed to switch to Lightning.

01:13:43   And so everybody was upset because, oh, the new iPad 3 just came out a few months ago,

01:13:47   and now you already have the iPad 4, which was essentially the same iPad, but just with

01:13:52   the new Lightning port instead of the 30-pin dock connector.

01:13:55   But yeah, I think, I mean, I would love for the iPad Pro to gain, you know, software-wise

01:14:02   better integration with external displays, and I want this 6K Apple monitor to exist.

01:14:10   The report is also saying that it will be like the, what's the name, micro LED display.

01:14:15   Super super fancy stuff.

01:14:17   So mini LED.

01:14:21   Real fancy, I can imagine that it'll be beautiful and like a beautiful piece of hardware, unlike

01:14:26   the LG Ultra Find that I have, which is functional but ugly.

01:14:31   I think that maybe the stars are lining up for the iPad to support this based upon the

01:14:39   update to the iPad Pro which Quo just calls like a processor bump which

01:14:44   doesn't make any sense otherwise because they've never done this before where

01:14:54   they've had an iPad Pro not change except forget a new processor like that

01:15:00   is that's a that's a weird thing to see I think like why else would they do that

01:15:07   I don't know why they wouldn't just leave it for the 18 months.

01:15:09   Unless it's like something else in iOS that that would require it.

01:15:13   But I don't know.

01:15:15   It seems that seems a little strange to me.

01:15:16   And it's it sounds oddly specific to say

01:15:20   iPad Pro spec bump in 2019, like we just had a new iPad Pro.

01:15:24   So unless Kuo heard something specific, why would this be in his report?

01:15:29   So and it tends to be accurate with this kind of stuff.

01:15:32   So again, I want to believe this is happening.

01:15:35   But, and again, I cannot think of any other, like, why would the iPad Pro need a spec bump in 2019?

01:15:43   If I were to ask you this question, what would the answer be?

01:15:45   And this display comes as the first possible option, because it's 6K and Apple does not want to release a new display that does not support the iPad Pro.

01:15:55   So they can just go out and say, "We have a new display, it works both with the Mac and the iPad, and here you go with new Macs and new iPads."

01:16:04   I don't know. That would be sweet and at the point I'm already... I've been

01:16:10   discussing with Sylvia what happens to this ultrafine that I have. It's 30 inches

01:16:14   too much for the desk that we bought. We'll talk about that again

01:16:20   when the time comes. Do we think that they'll only do one monitor? Steven, do you

01:16:25   think it would just be one size? I think that's just the big boy. If

01:16:31   If they can roll out the faster Thunderbolt 3 quick enough, you know, I think maybe they

01:16:38   do a 5K that supports older Thunderbolt or even USB C, you know, the new 3 point whatever,

01:16:45   3.2.

01:16:46   So I don't know, I mean, my gut says just one and if it doesn't support your machine

01:16:51   too bad, but…

01:16:53   So there was also some rumors of iPhone changes, so I'm going to read this section from 9to5

01:16:59   report on Ming-Chi Kuo's report. According to Kuo, the 2019 iPhones will feature ultra-wideband

01:17:06   connectivity for indoor positioning and navigation, frosted glass casing, bilateral

01:17:11   wireless charging for charging other devices, so it could basically charge your AirPods from the

01:17:16   iPhone, upgraded Face ID with a higher power flood illuminator, larger batteries and a triple camera

01:17:22   design but Quo doesn't say which phones will get which features exactly. So if

01:17:28   you imagine all of that stuff in an iPhone do you think that this is like a

01:17:33   big enough selection of things to move the needle maybe for people in our lives

01:17:38   that didn't think that the the XS line was big enough change wise? I guess it

01:17:45   depends on what a new camera system would bring in practice.

01:17:52   I cannot imagine the two-way wireless charging being a big deal for folks.

01:17:58   Yes, you will be able to maybe charge your AirPods on top of your phone,

01:18:01   and that's cool, but that's not something that sells a new iPhone.

01:18:04   But a radically new way to take pictures or considerably better

01:18:10   photos. Now that that's something that can sell phones. I also think that a price drop can sell

01:18:18   phones. So I remain convinced that this is something that we said a few episodes ago,

01:18:23   there will be price drops for iPhones in 2019. Right now it doesn't sound so compelling for

01:18:32   people. I mean, I'm gonna get it anyway, but for people who want to see the differences between

01:18:37   each iPhone iteration, I don't think it sounds like a major departure from the X and the XS.

01:18:43   I guess the new material could be something that entices people to upgrade. Again, I

01:18:50   struggle to imagine what that's gonna look like, but my feeling is

01:18:55   X, XS, so I'm talking about the small version of the phone, X, XS, whatever is gonna be called 11,

01:19:03   like the base model doesn't sound so different. Now the max if it has the new camera system now

01:19:09   that could be something to drive people to upgrade to but I don't know. Yeah I think I'm mostly

01:19:19   feeling the same right like these sound like an interesting selection of things to me but it's

01:19:25   definitely back in the kind of incremental camp again which I don't

01:19:32   know if it's easy to forget or whatever but that's kind of how we were for many

01:19:37   years before the 10 right that like it was it was mostly just incremental

01:19:43   updates every year and depending on your own personal set of requirements you

01:19:49   would decide which one of the two was the more important right whether it was

01:19:54   like speed or whatever it was cameras because you know from the 6 onwards it didn't really

01:19:58   change for a long time. I remember that was boring for us. Yes. And we've probably got

01:20:06   maybe this one will still be exciting but then probably the one after that unless Apple

01:20:10   does some big big stuff it's going to be a bit chill again for a few more years I think.

01:20:15   I mean and it's probably because just in general the standard line of smartphones has mostly

01:20:22   become pretty samey. I mean, we mentioned this, but we are recording this at the time

01:20:27   that Samsung has just shown off the first kind of like, really commercial phone.

01:20:31   Galaxy Fold!

01:20:32   So maybe like the Galaxy Fold, like in a few more years, you know, things might get more

01:20:37   exciting again, as there's like new form factors and stuff. But you know, it's pretty, the

01:20:43   iPhone X was incredible, but it will only take a year for it to feel normal. And so

01:20:47   now anything that comes from there is going to be pretty, it's going to feel pretty much

01:20:54   the same for a bit. I mean I will say that this phone sounds more exciting a jump than

01:21:00   the 10 to the 10s did. Like the 10s to this does feel more interesting. Better face ID

01:21:05   would be great, triple camera sounds fun. I don't know what ultra wide band connectivity

01:21:10   gets me, I don't really know what that means. The bilateral charging would be a really nice

01:21:14   especially as AirPods are growing in popularity and I guess we're all assuming that it's AirPods,

01:21:20   that's why they're doing this. So yeah, I think it sounds fun, but it's not huge.

01:21:27   So we already know what the story's going to be, you know, like failing Apple who couldn't

01:21:33   sell enough iPhones don't do enough with their iPhone to sell more iPhones. But that's just how

01:21:38   that's going to go for a bit, probably. Yeah, I mean they've moved into a cycle

01:21:44   that's longer than two years with the design. And if you know, I think people saw the notch

01:21:50   potentially as like a design change, but if it's the new normal, and it lasts as long

01:21:54   as the home button, you know, we have to divorce that from the rest of the design aesthetic

01:21:59   of the phone potentially to consider something new or not. So it's new ground this year,

01:22:04   especially with three phones. So we will, we will see how it goes.

01:22:09   And Ming-Chi Kuo also calls out that there will be an out of power this year after all.

01:22:14   But I still don't buy it.

01:22:15   I still just, I'm still not, I still don't believe it.

01:22:18   It just seems so strange to me still.

01:22:20   I don't know.

01:22:21   I don't know about it.

01:22:22   I don't know.

01:22:23   We'll see.

01:22:24   If you want to find links to stuff we've talked about, stories we mentioned, you can head

01:22:29   over to the website relay.fm/connected/231.

01:22:35   While you're there, you can get in touch.

01:22:36   There's an email link there in the sidebar.

01:22:38   this feedback follow up via email but that's too old-fashioned for you or you

01:22:43   can do it in less than 280 characters I guess you could do it over on Twitter

01:22:47   you can find Myke there is I M Y K E and Myke is the host of a bunch of shows

01:22:52   here on relay FM so if you like connected it's probably something else

01:22:56   that we do that you would like like as well you can follow it Federico at

01:23:00   Batichi VI T I CC I he is the editor-in-chief of max stories dotnet so

01:23:06   So as these iPad apps come to the Mac, you guys are going to be busy, Federico.

01:23:12   It's going to be a lot of stuff to talk about this year.

01:23:15   You can follow me on Twitter as ISMH and my writing at 512pixels.net.

01:23:21   I thank our three sponsors this week, Pingdom, Luna Display, and Care/Of.

01:23:26   Until next week, gentlemen, say goodbye.

01:23:28   Arrivederci.

01:23:29   Cheerio.

01:23:30   Adios.