0:00:00goodness John how was your trip to Long
0:00:03Island just lovely
0:00:06do you like the beach I hear you're
0:00:08plugging your phone in i am i'm rolling
0:00:10unified you up and ask me questions so
0:00:12now you get to hear behind-the-scenes i
0:00:14plug in my phone so my charger as well I
0:00:16record it's exciting
0:00:17why why not just do that when you go to
0:00:19pad i do how long of a time span is it
0:00:22between when the podcast and when you go
0:00:24to bed usually you never know
0:00:26vacation was good anything interesting
0:00:29to report you rented a camera would you
0:00:31like to learn ya whole camera right
0:00:33would you like to talk about that at all
0:00:34yeah camera and a bunch of lenses this
0:00:36is marcos recommendation of what camera
0:00:37should rent and the only reason I was
0:00:38doing it all is because my wife is going
0:00:40off on a cruise with her mother which is
0:00:43the thing to do
0:00:44maybe we'll talk about later and she
0:00:47decided that our camera is not good
0:00:49enough
0:00:49she's had too much proximity exposure to
0:00:53Marco's fancy cameras and other people
0:00:55that runs like rubbing off on her so
0:00:58she's like we should get a better camera
0:01:00line on the get about ABC was going on
0:01:02vacation and she wants to have good
0:01:04pictures just like our cameras up to the
0:01:06task I think our cameras plenty of the
0:01:07task but she disagrees so I don't wanna
0:01:10buy no camera but I know Marco rents
0:01:13camera so i asked him about his the
0:01:14camera rental service that he uses and
0:01:17he gave me the URL and suggested a
0:01:18camera that we should rent because we
0:01:21didn't want something as big as Marcus
0:01:23Marcus is not big it's not as big as
0:01:25like that 5dr likes it's not like a
0:01:27giant a full-frame DSLR but yeah it is
0:01:30about as big as a mirrorless camera can
0:01:32get and still be a mirrorless camera
0:01:33still it's so full frame but it doesn't
0:01:36have the mirrors in it to add some
0:01:38clarity here since everybody will be
0:01:39asking the site that I recommended you
0:01:41rent from his lens rentals.com there are
0:01:44a couple other sites that's the 1 i've
0:01:45used a lot over like same here
0:01:48she's I don't know maybe over a decade
0:01:49it i've used for a long time they've
0:01:53been great no complaints I've rented
0:01:54both lenses an entire cameras from
0:01:56they've been great land rentals.com this
0:01:58is not a sponsorship the camera i
0:01:59recommended that you rent is the sony
0:02:01a6300 added it is Sony's new high-end
0:02:05but still crop sensor mirrorless camera
0:02:09runs a little thing like 1,200 bucks
0:02:10something in that range
0:02:12it's it's a very very good camera it's
0:02:14as bad as good as you can get without
0:02:15being a full-frame sensor the camera
0:02:18that i have is the sony a7r to which is
0:02:21a full-frame sensor is a lot more money
0:02:23but is a lot bigger and a lot higher
0:02:24quality images but the day 6300 that I
0:02:27had John rent is incredibly good and i
0:02:30would say if you're looking for
0:02:32America's camera in the like thousand
0:02:35dollar range that seems like it would be
0:02:37a really it should be very high on your
0:02:39list
0:02:40that said I haven't actually used this
0:02:41is all based on review info experience
0:02:43with other sony camera so John how is
0:02:45the a 1600 well looking at it compared
0:02:48to your camera i was surprised to see
0:02:50that there are a couple specs where the
0:02:51smaller lesser camera is better for
0:02:54instance number of photos it can take
0:02:56per second for burst mode is like double
0:02:58the maybe even triple than the highest
0:03:01setting
0:03:02what yours does and i think it had my
0:03:05don't know these texts me like that
0:03:07number of areas of phase detection for
0:03:10auto focus was higher on this thing like
0:03:13this is a couple of attributes make me
0:03:15think this camera in this sensor came
0:03:17out after yours is that the case they
0:03:18did yeah and also when you have a
0:03:20smaller ND i came out i think it was
0:03:22like six months or maybe a year after
0:03:24mine and well yeah I bet between six and
0:03:27nine months i think after month and also
0:03:30when you have a so full frame sensor is
0:03:31a lot larger it's I think it's sixty
0:03:34percent larger by area something like
0:03:36that has double the megapixels two years
0:03:374224 so it's close to double right right
0:03:40and so when you have a larger sensor and
0:03:42you have more pixels it is it is much
0:03:44harder to make the surrounding
0:03:46electronics able to deal with the sensor
0:03:49dumping like a hundred photos a second
0:03:51off of it and so usually the smaller
0:03:53sensors will have higher slo-mo video
0:03:56frame rates and higher bursts per second
0:03:59capacity simply because there's a lot
0:04:01less data deal to deal with and that has
0:04:03to be pulled off that sensor and the
0:04:05reason we weren't looking at marcos
0:04:07camera specifically is not particularly
0:04:08because it's too expensive because all i
0:04:10do is we're going to rent it but just
0:04:11because it's big and you know we're
0:04:13going from as much smaller it's all
0:04:15relative of all much smaller much
0:04:17lighter Cameron on interchangeable lens
0:04:19camera always have super zooms and
0:04:21they're all made of plastics a very
0:04:22light
0:04:23and they're they're small and you're
0:04:25gonna be walking all over Europe maybe
0:04:27you don't want to go right from a small
0:04:28light camera to something that's bigger
0:04:30market again it's not as big as a as a
0:04:32full-frame DSLR but still pretty big and
0:04:35that whether the magnesium aluminum body
0:04:36is not as heavy is like a steel body or
0:04:39something but it's way heavier than a
0:04:40plastic one
0:04:41so this is a kind of a good choice for
0:04:43like it's going to take good pictures
0:04:45but it's really it's a very small body
0:04:47like it's so small that a lot of the
0:04:48lens is like comic like a lot of the
0:04:50sony looks like they want the NEX series
0:04:52and all that they always look like the
0:04:55lens was too big for the body because so
0:04:56many maybes very small it's what you can
0:04:58do with mirrorless cameras and very
0:04:59small looking bodies with pretty good
0:05:01sensors in them sometimes to a fault is
0:05:03my brother has one of the earlier so
0:05:05amazing it was very often difficult to
0:05:07hold them like to find a place where you
0:05:09could grip them and Sony was making them
0:05:10kind of like the PlayStation controllers
0:05:12like little pieces of art made of like
0:05:13conical section is an ideal solid stuff
0:05:15instead of saying no you have to have to
0:05:17make it grippy so that's why when i use
0:05:19marcos camera when I first saw it I was
0:05:20happy to see that Sony has learned hey
0:05:22you should put grippy stuff on the part
0:05:24where you grip it like nice grippy
0:05:26rubber you know like camera grip stuff
0:05:27if you make the whole thing is smooth
0:05:29beautiful rectangle with a little bulge
0:05:31it falls out of your hand and you're set
0:05:33so the ac360 like a shrunken version of
0:05:37Marcos is very small
0:05:38it's still relatively heavy but most of
0:05:40the weight is in the lenses if you use a
0:05:42larger lens lenses i got was that the
0:05:44silly little kit lens that comes with
0:05:46which is like a everybody was like 15 to
0:05:4850 or something power zoom like that
0:05:50yeah something like that it's a it's a
0:05:52it's a very small zoom range is a very
0:05:54compact lens and it doesn't seem to be
0:05:58very good and I got a 50 millimeter
0:06:01prime and I got a what was it 30 to 140
0:06:07to 150 him all these were sony branded
0:06:10lenses that's another possibility with
0:06:13these things is that supposedly the sony
0:06:14can take third-party lenses and do auto
0:06:17focus on them but Marcos has the
0:06:19advantage that all the image
0:06:20stabilization stuff is in the body not
0:06:24in the lens is this correct I'm not
0:06:26that's right well it's both I mean the
0:06:28lot of the lenses have it but but yet it
0:06:30mine has in body stabilization right and
0:06:33this one doesn't so realize somewhat on
0:06:35its ability to work with lens
0:06:36but as a bunch of adapters for the
0:06:37lenses stuff anyway just got so many
0:06:38lenses and use the vacation normally on
0:06:41my long island vacations I take pictures
0:06:42and rest of the family hanging around
0:06:45the beach but i also take a lot of
0:06:46pictures of my family playing in the
0:06:48ocean and when I take those pictures i'm
0:06:50usually up to my knees or my waist in
0:06:52the ocean and the ocean waves in the
0:06:53surf and that's not a really good place
0:06:56to be with an expensive camera
0:06:58I've always assumed that one year the
0:07:00wave will get me and i will drop my
0:07:02camera but as I don't know we're going
0:07:03on five years ten years so far has not
0:07:06gotten me and the streak continues but i
0:07:09plan to not even bring the fancy camera
0:07:11to the ocean because I was like well you
0:07:13know i'll use that one for all the
0:07:14pictures except the ocean pictures and
0:07:15also by the way my super zoom is 600
0:07:18millimeter zoom it's ridiculous like it
0:07:20helps me get when the surface like far
0:07:21out
0:07:22I can be up to my knees and they can be
0:07:23away for I can still get close-ups oh
0:07:25really i really like my camera my
0:07:26superstar by the way is the canon fz200
0:07:28but when it came down to it I taking so
0:07:32many pictures with the sony I didn't
0:07:33want to leave at home so I brought to
0:07:34the beach with me in fact that both
0:07:36cameras to the beach I took a bunch of
0:07:37pictures with my other camera like you
0:07:39know what I could probably take a few of
0:07:40the sony may go a little deeper and
0:07:42makeup money's going to let you know i
0:07:44did the main thing was holding back on
0:07:46sunday with the zoom is just not that
0:07:47was all hundred and five millimeters
0:07:48it's not it wasn't getting me close
0:07:50enough it was so some of the pictures
0:07:53are kind of already but then he gets 24
0:07:54megapixels compared to whatever 12 or
0:07:56whatever my other thing is I could drop
0:07:58a lot of them to get the same image
0:08:00quality out of it but I kept it out of
0:08:02the ocean
0:08:03I think I got a couple of drops of water
0:08:05splashed on it but none on the lens I'm
0:08:08pretty good at staying away from all
0:08:10that and protecting the camera and the
0:08:12results are really nice and really liked
0:08:14it and she's definitely gonna bring it
0:08:15on vacation the only decision I have now
0:08:17is whether we're going to rent it again
0:08:19for her vacation or just buy it
0:08:21yeah i mean so first of all I should
0:08:22point out that lens rentals has an
0:08:24incredibly broad insurance to add on
0:08:28that you can buy so that would cover i
0:08:30think it would cover your ocean fears
0:08:32that you have to pay ten percent still I
0:08:34paid for like whatever the most
0:08:36expensive insurance was against damage
0:08:37and theft but even if the worst happens
0:08:39you still have to pay ten percent and I
0:08:41had like was like a six-hundred-dollar
0:08:42lens $150 lands a hundred-dollar lens
0:08:45that
0:08:46and a thousand-dollar body or whatever
0:08:48soda ten percent of that is still
0:08:49something I didn't want to pay so how
0:08:52many wins did you say you rented just
0:08:54three just the prime zoom and the little
0:08:56kit lens thing because i didn't know
0:08:57which one I would end up using more of
0:08:59it as it turns out what I ended up using
0:09:00was almost never use the little kit lens
0:09:02you think because I had to optically
0:09:06better lenses with me and the indoors i
0:09:09use the prime because it was the it was
0:09:11a tough one point it was the one that
0:09:13took the best light pictures & outdoors
0:09:15i use the zoom even though is relatively
0:09:18huge just because it gave me the most
0:09:20flexibility and in all fairness your
0:09:23battle between like the reach of the
0:09:26super zoom and the quality of the of the
0:09:29nice camera in all fairness I did
0:09:31recommend that you consider the sony
0:09:33rx10 which is it's super zoom but it's
0:09:36not doesn't have the same reaches this
0:09:37one like I'm gonna get a super zoom not
0:09:39gonna get one that stops at 400 or
0:09:40something whatever they are extended to
0:09:42maybe does go to 600 or some other
0:09:44aspect of it was worse than my camera I
0:09:46think the most recent one actually might
0:09:47go out that far it got a pretty big
0:09:49update run but it doesn't it's not have
0:09:512.3 the whole zoom range like like this
0:09:53thing is no that's pretty rare I mean it
0:09:55basically to achieve that you have to
0:09:57have a very small sensor now all them i
0:09:58do so anyway I'm like this it is not not
0:10:01only is there no sony superzoom that i
0:10:03can get at any price that I feel like
0:10:04has better feature set university better
0:10:06than the 1i have but there's no
0:10:08panasonic on the panasonic updated my
0:10:10camera to and made it worse like from
0:10:12for my purposes but anyway be that
0:10:14there's a problem with the zoom lens is
0:10:15the problem all the sony lenses is that
0:10:18I don't know the ones get expensive
0:10:20really fast
0:10:21there's no sort of maybe I could talk to
0:10:23you about what lens i should have
0:10:24actually buy this thing but there's no
0:10:25reasonably expensive zoom lens above
0:10:29like a hundred something only their
0:10:32resume like forget about 600 forget
0:10:34about 400 i think i can get like a 404
0:10:36twelve-thousand dollars that's something
0:10:38yeah well the moment so you know the
0:10:41problems like what you're looking at
0:10:42here is you're looking at a lens system
0:10:44that spans from prosumer to really like
0:10:49low to mid-range pro
0:10:51the sony full-frame sensors like that
0:10:53the a 7-series have become very popular
0:10:56very quickly among high end users and
0:11:00that you know we can have lots of
0:11:01debates over like whether they are
0:11:02considered pro cameras or not but it's
0:11:04kinda like you know asking like whether
0:11:06the ipad is a computer like you know
0:11:07whether or not their pro cameras by some
0:11:09people's definitions they are still
0:11:10being used by a lot of pros for
0:11:12professional use it doesn't really
0:11:13matter whether you think they're for a
0:11:15camera or not because they are just
0:11:17incredibly good incredibly compelling it
0:11:19for a lot of reasons anyway so the
0:11:22problem is that when you have these
0:11:24large very dense very high-quality
0:11:27sensors you need really good lens glass
0:11:31in front of those to be able to resolve
0:11:33enough detail to really take advantage
0:11:35of what those sensors have to offer and
0:11:38so when you can look at your little
0:11:40super zoom zooms and super zooms you
0:11:42know they they sacrifice a lot of image
0:11:45quality and optical quality to be able
0:11:48to put a large zoom range into a
0:11:50relatively compact and relatively
0:11:52inexpensive body that's that's not
0:11:54really possible to you know it's like
0:11:56something has to give their if you're
0:11:58gonna have to serve a very large nice
0:12:01sensor with lots of megapixels of detail
0:12:04and not have a bunch of distortion in
0:12:06the images I mean some of that you can
0:12:07correct with software but you know still
0:12:09try to avoid it you can then you have to
0:12:13either shorten the range in order to
0:12:15have less glass that needs to be in
0:12:17place to get that high-quality image
0:12:18onto this high-quality sensor without
0:12:19distorting or you have to put just a ton
0:12:23of glass in front of that thing
0:12:25tons of like highly engineered you know
0:12:27lens elements and is very expensive very
0:12:29large very heavy lenses and so it's just
0:12:32as this trade-off between all these
0:12:33different factors of like well if you
0:12:35want to have something that is small and
0:12:37light and probably cheap and also has
0:12:40big zoom range
0:12:41it can't have good optical quality and
0:12:43if you want something that is small with
0:12:45top-quality you should really be
0:12:46probably using a prime if you want
0:12:48something large with good optical
0:12:50quality and and you have a lot on the
0:12:52unlimited budget and you know you don't
0:12:55mind carrying his giant heavy lenses the
0:12:57lens you see in the new high-end sony
0:12:59every lineup that's the market they're
0:13:02targeting the targeting like the Canon L
0:13:04Series
0:13:05and stuff and whatever that the nikon I
0:13:06figured with my compro ones are called
0:13:08they're targeting that market like pro
0:13:10photographers the people you see on the
0:13:11sidelines of like sports games the giant
0:13:13white lenses like they're targeting that
0:13:15market now because they're their cameras
0:13:17are so good to turn to be using that
0:13:19kind of industry which is pretty
0:13:20impressive for mirrorless to begin with
0:13:22but anyway so for what you're looking
0:13:25for your you should probably honestly
0:13:28consider the rx10 they're super zoom or
0:13:30at least only use your only consider
0:13:33using the sony for four occasions in
0:13:36which you don't really need massive
0:13:37reach of of a telephoto zoom because
0:13:40that's just like you're looking at a
0:13:42market that is designed for very
0:13:44different needs and optimizing for very
0:13:45different factors in that trade-off of
0:13:47lens design you're trying to get out of
0:13:50that market like like you know a 16
0:13:52millimeter lens like try to find a
0:13:54second millimeter Canon L lens and you
0:13:55will see quite how you not quite what
0:13:57this what this kind of quality was kind
0:13:59of market is like it's you know they get
0:14:01pretty ridiculous pretty fast i would
0:14:03say this is kind of like your mac pro vs
0:14:06gaming pc think you kind of want the
0:14:09impossible i have added this high-end
0:14:10thing but what you really actually need
0:14:12is a low anthem now there's no 2000 a
0:14:15mac pro quo woman that's 2,000 a micro
0:14:17is perfect because I did everything but
0:14:19now I'm like what i learned the vacation
0:14:21is that I'm willing to give up the zoom
0:14:23range for the better quality because
0:14:25first of all with the Prime this can
0:14:26take pictures and doors that nothing
0:14:28else I have to take was the reason I
0:14:30never wanted to get high on camera
0:14:31because you get you started your like
0:14:32well now I can't go back how can you go
0:14:34back from using you know a reasonably
0:14:37good camera for indoor photography that
0:14:39you can't go back because do you not at
0:14:41all the pictures other pictures are
0:14:42garbage indoors because there's no light
0:14:44and your phone can't get the light and
0:14:46nothing else can and you know so and
0:14:48then at the beach when I had the choice
0:14:50between both cameras that have them both
0:14:51right there by using both of them
0:14:53eventually by the last day we are at the
0:14:55ocean didn't even take out the panasonic
0:14:57voltages sony the whole time you know
0:15:00and by that i forgot
0:15:01then I was brave enough to go in the
0:15:02water with it and I didn't mind the fact
0:15:04that i was a little bit farther away
0:15:05because the the you know had more
0:15:08megapixels and I could crop them i
0:15:09really needed to but in the end even if
0:15:11I was a little bit farther away the
0:15:13increased image quality was worth it to
0:15:15me
0:15:16I mean so maybe like a little bit bigger
0:15:18zoom American you know I'll shop around
0:15:20like I'm looking series lenses now
0:15:22they're 500 millimeters you're right
0:15:24that the signal is when the lens is
0:15:25white Runaways probably like a rhyme
0:15:27about with the lens is white the price
0:15:30is not right that 500 millimeter at for
0:15:32gsm whatever those letters stand for
0:15:3412,900 and otters so i don't think i'll
0:15:37be skipping that lens there's also the
0:15:39size of a truck like you can it's also a
0:15:41bad sign when the lens itself is the
0:15:42thing that amount of the tripod and not
0:15:44the camera because of a camera just
0:15:45hanging off the end of lens
0:15:46these are all bad signs for your budget
0:15:48with 300 millimeter 14 only 7500 anyway
0:15:52probably just end up getting this camera
0:15:55with the kit lens and a prime and then
0:15:58save up for resume because I mean I
0:16:01enjoyed it that much I get it was it was
0:16:04heavier but not that much heavier and
0:16:06the socks size wise it was ok for
0:16:09economically and you I was I felt
0:16:11something cameras have a long way to go
0:16:12like every I recognize this is a big
0:16:15improvement over the old sony says that
0:16:17my brother had an older one like this is
0:16:18this is better doesn't have a
0:16:19touchscreen which would help but camera
0:16:22manufacturers need to need to get over
0:16:23the idea that the the best way to
0:16:26arrange all your options is in a big
0:16:30linear list over a series of screens
0:16:31like this one has tabs and then within
0:16:33each tabs there's a number line like
0:16:35search results that has seven screens is
0:16:37a bunch of texts things like that's not
0:16:39it it's organized kind of but you can
0:16:43imagine a much better UI to organize the
0:16:45scriptures i can never remember where
0:16:46the hell's the feature this thing like
0:16:47they weren't organized in a logical way
0:16:49than like these are the camera settings
0:16:51through the ones under gear these are
0:16:52settings but not camera-related set it's
0:16:54just too terrible organization but at
0:16:57least we've gotten on the BMW pages said
0:16:58look we put a bunch of buttons on this
0:17:00thing and most cameras do this but
0:17:01apparently some reason bad about this in
0:17:03the past we have a bunch of buttons you
0:17:04can program the whole do anything you
0:17:06want we printed something next to the
0:17:07buttons thats have little to no
0:17:08abbreviations to tell you what they do
0:17:10by default but if you don't like that
0:17:12you can make anybody do anything for the
0:17:14most part which is another business
0:17:15innovation what you want this button to
0:17:17scroll through this list of literally 70
0:17:19options and finally think it's really
0:17:22terrible at everything cameras want to
0:17:23do on-camera like there's a tablet saps
0:17:25just know Sony there are no apps that i
0:17:28want to run
0:17:28your camera to take pictures may be on
0:17:31camera convert to jpeg which by the way
0:17:33that doesn't even do is just the wrong
0:17:35as you have to pull off but everything
0:17:37else
0:17:37wait what it doesn't convert to you
0:17:39can't do like in-camera conversion where
0:17:41you shoot in raw and then filled with it
0:17:43and then do a conversion 2.jpg before
0:17:46you pull it off oh okay I see you mean
0:17:48you can shoot j+ for all you should roll
0:17:51out your JPEG but a lot of cameras have
0:17:52a thing where you shoot in raw and that
0:17:54on the camera screw with the whatever
0:17:56you're going to screw with to get that
0:17:57you know pull out the detail from the
0:17:59shadows and blah blah blah and then just
0:18:00pull off jpegs that are burned in like
0:18:02that why would you want to do that
0:18:05ok let's save to save room that you know
0:18:07because that's another thing like now I
0:18:08understand why my brother has the
0:18:10problem that he can't use iCloud library
0:18:13because he has more than one terabyte of
0:18:15my photos and why is that more than one
0:18:17terabyte photos because he shoots wrong
0:18:19on this little sunny and so yeah the
0:18:21each of these rows like 25 megsie
0:18:23compared to like yeah 3 or 4 Meg's in
0:18:27jpg and even smaller and so I I feel the
0:18:3064 gig card and a little bit of another
0:18:33card
0:18:33yeah i mean in all fairness buying a
0:18:37larger SD card is probably a lot easier
0:18:39and they're pretty cheap now then having
0:18:41to fiddle with like taking up space on
0:18:43the camera because the other thing too
0:18:45is like a larger SD card is is a
0:18:48credible easily you know pretty easily
0:18:51thing what is not so easy is to get
0:18:54these cameras battery so last very long
0:18:55when the screens are on and expense I
0:18:58mean that's one thing like Sony i love
0:19:00my camera I love almost everything about
0:19:02it but the battery life is embarrassing
0:19:04and I have like all these different
0:19:05power saving tips like it has Wi-Fi but
0:19:08you can put it in airplane mode from the
0:19:09wife III did that immediately as soon as
0:19:11I think this out-of-the-box yeah my
0:19:13camera has always been an airplane mode
0:19:14hit me because the battery like this so
0:19:17bad i do all the help I can get it to
0:19:20turn the back screen on sunny day mode
0:19:21you have yours I'm sure you don't have
0:19:23yours in sunny day mode because sunday
0:19:24morning reads means max brightness on
0:19:26the screen that's what any of that
0:19:28because it was a sunny day at the beach
0:19:29otherwise I couldn't see a thing and i
0:19:30would use if you find a long time I i
0:19:32usually when I'm shooting i will almost
0:19:34always be using the optical viewfinder
0:19:35just because I prefer the additional
0:19:38detail and I'm able to see just because
0:19:40it is closer to my and there's an
0:19:42the outside light coming in and
0:19:43everything else so anyway so yeah I mean
0:19:46I honestly i recommend possibly giving
0:19:49up on the idea zooms for the most part
0:19:51because honestly like the trade-off is
0:19:55so big in terms of you know quality or
0:19:58size and and money like like you can get
0:20:02zooms that are you know and this is
0:20:04there's only very few of them that this
0:20:06is true for but you can get zooms that
0:20:08are about as good as as most primes they
0:20:10do exist but their massive heavy and
0:20:13very expensive and there aren't that
0:20:16many of them most zooms you're giving up
0:20:18a lot of quality to get that soon
0:20:21flexibility and you know if you think
0:20:23about like when you shoot with your
0:20:24iphone you have a prime on there except
0:20:27for the next you know large iphone plus
0:20:29it's gonna have the optical zoom but so
0:20:31you know when you shoot with your iphone
0:20:33you're shooting with effectively a
0:20:3435-millimeter prime and you've been
0:20:37shooting with that 35-millimeter primary
0:20:38iphone for the last like a seven years
0:20:40or whatever
0:20:41however long as well you haven't John
0:20:42everyone else haha you know it's been
0:20:46awhile and and we've gotten used to that
0:20:48and it's fine and it turns out that when
0:20:50you just have like a decent prime in the
0:20:53wide to normal range you can get pretty
0:20:56much all of your photography done that
0:20:57way but you know most of the time and
0:21:00it's great and the trade-off is worth it
0:21:02like well if you have a prime here that
0:21:03you can make this a much smaller and
0:21:05cheaper and have higher quality and
0:21:06everything
0:21:07same thing is true for any size camera
0:21:09anybody listening if you have a an SLR
0:21:12anything with interchangeable lenses if
0:21:13you don't have a prime lens which means
0:21:15it's fixed one focal length of you that
0:21:17you can't zoom it's zoom with your feet
0:21:19if you have if you don't have a prime
0:21:21lens whatever camera system you own get
0:21:24the cheap 50-millimeter prime lens for
0:21:27it there is it is almost every camera
0:21:29system has something like this where it
0:21:30is 50 millimeter or whatever the
0:21:32equivalent is for your sensor size
0:21:34usually it's f 1.8 and usually it's like
0:21:37a hundred bucks in that range it's it's
0:21:39fairly inexpensive for allen's the
0:21:41optical quality you can get out of those
0:21:43is it just kicks the butts of zoom
0:21:47lenses it so and you know that looked
0:21:48like you were saying earlier John you
0:21:50that's the one you said you were saying
0:21:51you were using indoors because when
0:21:53you're indoors or when you're you know
0:21:54when it
0:21:55not that much light you can really get a
0:21:56lot of light in there and even you have
0:21:58lots of light the sharpness and the
0:22:00color and then just the optical quality
0:22:03that you get out of these lenses is
0:22:04amazing because they can be so much
0:22:06simpler than resume like just there's
0:22:08fewer elements the elements you know
0:22:09they can afford to get higher quality
0:22:12optics in there at that price point when
0:22:13you don't have all those elements to to
0:22:15zoom things are to have a weird
0:22:16we're perspective or the extreme you
0:22:18know wider extreme narrow primes are
0:22:21just so nice like I found that even when
0:22:24I have a big camera i spend the vast
0:22:26majority of my time using primes and
0:22:29even when i've used zooms I mostly have
0:22:31not liked the pictures that i get from
0:22:33them the primes are just so much better
0:22:35and so I I urge anybody with cameras out
0:22:38there to consider just shooting with
0:22:40crimes because it really is incredible
0:22:42and there are situations where you were
0:22:45you quote need a zoom but I bet there's
0:22:47a lot fewer of those and you expect and
0:22:49for a lot of camera owners you basically
0:22:51never had the basement ever have those
0:22:52and a lot of those can be covered by
0:22:54renting yeah so we're going on a trip
0:22:57soon and I have rented a lens from once
0:23:00rentals.com i did so few days ago
0:23:02because i also used on trend also
0:23:03probably less frequently i rented a 35
0:23:06100 millimeter zoom for micro four
0:23:10thirds camera and I did that because I
0:23:12want to be able to be a creeper he's
0:23:15clearly i want to be able to capture
0:23:18what I mean by that is that with my own
0:23:20family Oh God taken out of context that
0:23:21sounds terrible but that's good to know
0:23:25what i mean by that is so if we are all
0:23:27at a beach or for all in in a rented
0:23:30house together so it's only people i
0:23:32know i don't want to have to get up in
0:23:35somebody's face in order to take a
0:23:37really good picture that i want to be
0:23:39able to be across the room where they
0:23:41don't even know I'm taking a picture so
0:23:42it's a lot more natural but that being
0:23:44said generally speaking the only lens
0:23:46that has ever on my camera is a 25
0:23:48millimeter I have no idea what the
0:23:49equivalent of that is in a SLR but it's
0:23:52a 25 millimeter i think it is a 50
0:23:54equivalent it your pictures look like 50
0:23:57pictures okay so it's a 20-millimeter f
0:23:591.4 that Sean blanc had recommended and
0:24:02it is very expensive it was like six
0:24:04hundred dollars but it is a unbelievably
0:24:06phenomenally good lens to my eye and
0:24:08don't know crap about the stuff and if I
0:24:11ever take a decent picture it's because
0:24:13I've got lucky and because of this lens
0:24:14and I rented this zoom just like Marco
0:24:17said because i want to have something to
0:24:19take the pictures you know maybe in the
0:24:21surf or something like John was
0:24:22describing or or take pictures from
0:24:24across the room but generally speaking I
0:24:26never bother with a zoom and I do have
0:24:27the kids oom for this Olympus camera
0:24:29that I have and it's freaking terrible i
0:24:32can't give up on resume that like the
0:24:33one I was using this is a cheap so much
0:24:35like six hundred dollars 18 2 105
0:24:37millimeter sony zoom lens it's for its
0:24:39for the aps-c format is not a full-frame
0:24:42a lens so maybe that's why it's cheaper
0:24:45and I was really happy with the pictures
0:24:47it took outdoors in the bright sunlight
0:24:49on the beach in the same reason cases
0:24:50that I'm most of the time I like to have
0:24:52candid pictures and either i don't want
0:24:54to or can't get close so like people are
0:24:56all around i can't get close to them if
0:24:58i do they start acting weird so i have
0:25:00to go over there for far out on the
0:25:02water like they see you coming with the
0:25:04camera and they all turn and smile and
0:25:06ham it up and I like candid pictures
0:25:08better and so I can capture them like
0:25:10the hundred million resume is enough for
0:25:12like in it
0:25:13outdoor gathering of people to get close
0:25:15enough to get groups of people as if
0:25:16you're right next some of that being on
0:25:17next time the surface a little bit
0:25:19little bit low but again i can i can
0:25:21crop and I mean to my eye
0:25:25obviously the the aperture wasn't like
0:25:28it was on the prime likes you couldn't
0:25:30you know open up super wide and get the
0:25:32entire you know background nice and
0:25:34blurred and everything sharpen and maybe
0:25:35that and I had you know I did little to
0:25:37f 1.8 50-millimeter prime that tomorrow
0:25:40starting at cheap but good but I mostly
0:25:43outdoors i use the big zoom and i
0:25:45thought i would be bothered by how darn
0:25:47big it is but it was i was able to
0:25:49wrangle it fairly easily and I felt like
0:25:52it was worth it like that's that's lens
0:25:53believe about the end up using the most
0:25:55i thought of using the prime minister
0:25:56but I end up using this fairly large
0:25:58doing the most so I don't want to maybe
0:26:00i'll just get that same lens only six
0:26:02hundred dollars but in the beginning I
0:26:03probably just get that the Prime and and
0:26:04the kit lens our mail by the body
0:26:06without lens and just get the prime for
0:26:08it just to save some money i don't have
0:26:09to decide yet responsive this week by
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0:28:20show
0:28:22our days Marco of lording over John and
0:28:27feeling superior to him I'm sad to say
0:28:30they're over because John now has a blue
0:28:33checkmark oh I was afraid you're going
0:28:35to see you finally got a new computer
0:28:36oh god no come on let's talk everyday kc
0:28:38ya John congrats on your blue checkmark
0:28:41my friend my computer still better than
0:28:43yours too crazy
0:28:44mmm is it doesn't crash that was waiting
0:28:47for that's why I didn't say anything
0:28:48because I knew that was coming before we
0:28:50go to check marks what is the status of
0:28:51the computer has has the problem
0:28:53recurred it has not and i haven't lost
0:28:55power for let's see six days 14 hours 20
0:28:59minutes still stock ramen it is your
0:29:01computer plugged into the UPS yes no
0:29:03it's not because you want to reboot it
0:29:04that's what because I wanted to I wanted
0:29:06to keep this damn run going
0:29:08I it has not lost power is not rebooted
0:29:11it say does still have the OEM ram
0:29:13minutes so i am still perhaps perhaps
0:29:16unfairly I'm still convinced it's the
0:29:18mac sales ram ok
0:29:21no you should get a get on getting that
0:29:22replace then I did you well I wanted
0:29:25memtest x64 thing that does like the
0:29:27SuperDuper thorough ran tests i did not
0:29:29see six come on whatever side but that's
0:29:32what that's what i said in my head but
0:29:34my mouth did something different
0:29:36your section not a pc nerd every pc here
0:29:38knows that is what i said in my head but
0:29:41the words came out differently it's
0:29:43pronounced 1086 now what did I actually
0:29:45say that XD cool i was probably thinking
0:29:48uh you know the modern instruction set
0:29:51every hand a memory test
0:29:53so anyway the point is this is still
0:29:55going strong on the on the OEM ram and
0:29:59whenever this thing decides to reboot
0:30:01itself or I lose power text or after
0:30:04like two to four weeks I've decided what
0:30:05i consider to be a long enough run then
0:30:07at that point i will officially start
0:30:10the arm a process with Maxwell's didn't
0:30:13you have to install the the 10 whatever
0:30:166 update recently the the really
0:30:18critical security updates with the image
0:30:20parsing i recall i know what you talk
0:30:23about our qualified it or not you should
0:30:24do that if you have yeah alright i'll i
0:30:28will see it maybe I'll just did not use
0:30:30my computer for the next week
0:30:32it's what I don't have to reboot it I
0:30:35don't see what happens but anyway I so
0:30:36to come back on point John you are
0:30:38verified congratulations you are a
0:30:40sellout just like me
0:30:41we are not good enough like Marco to
0:30:42have had received our check marks
0:30:44without solicitation in all fairness I
0:30:46did basically asked for it just not
0:30:48doing it
0:30:49yeah yeah I guess it's just the normal
0:30:51version of the same thing but most
0:30:54importantly now we are the fully
0:30:56verified podcast obviously so as I
0:30:57analog for that matter any more fully
0:30:59verified podcaster happening now let's
0:31:02just put there by the way you know so i
0:31:05got my check mark 42 did not get his
0:31:07brown did not get hers so there's still
0:31:09day
0:31:10Renee didn't get it nope use your
0:31:12generator just hasn't heard back to know
0:31:14he got rejected rejected don't the
0:31:17world's coming to and what the hell's
0:31:18going on anyway still massive injustice
0:31:22in this world there is for those of us
0:31:24who don't actually need it on this
0:31:25podcast guess what we got it makes no
0:31:27sense
0:31:27oh and people ask me if I'm going to
0:31:29change my bio that I complained about
0:31:31mostly in reqtest about having to write
0:31:33this silly bio now I'm afraid to change
0:31:36because I'm afraid of change all this
0:31:37magic mark so i decided to leave the
0:31:41Siller silly embarrassing bio there
0:31:43forever or maybe to like give it a year
0:31:45and then it's safe for me to change it i
0:31:46don't know
0:31:47so do i have to be influenced or forever
0:31:49I think you can change it i just i'm not
0:31:52sure if you make it go away if they'll
0:31:54get upset because part of what you have
0:31:56to do to have a right exact mark is to
0:31:58is to have a bio the funny thing about
0:32:00this whole experience for me is that I
0:32:03have apparently become I don't know how
0:32:05to put this maybe I I've become like the
0:32:07litmus test for like Oh Casey got
0:32:10verified of course insert person here
0:32:13should totally be verified so I saw that
0:32:15about Renee is all that about federico
0:32:17dude
0:32:18Casey got verified little bit worse this
0:32:21person should be verified so that that's
0:32:22my new claim to fame I should change my
0:32:23bio I'm that guy you couldn't believe
0:32:26got verified that's me
0:32:28you just have to find someone who you
0:32:29think is even less deserving of being
0:32:30verified and then you just point to them
0:32:32yeah right whatever but yes I get to see
0:32:35those tweets flyby like everything have
0:32:37every few hours dude Renee didn't get
0:32:39his thing I can't believe that Casey got
0:32:42one call my favorite things like Howard
0:32:44people are
0:32:45just like back and insulting you like
0:32:47this they feel the need to add to
0:32:48mention you to average actually except
0:32:51that that's what sure like okay if you
0:32:54want to think that I mean knowing me
0:32:55i'll probably find it an advantage
0:32:56research because hello little least have
0:32:59the decency not to not to mention me
0:33:02oh yeah ok so we are the fully verified
0:33:04podcast and that's very exciting right
0:33:07moving on I where is tip these days
0:33:10Marco I don't know how to pronounce the
0:33:12more specific location however the
0:33:15general location is France
0:33:17fair enough yeah my dad took my wife is
0:33:19on vacation for the week so I am solo
0:33:22parenting this week how's that going on
0:33:24well I mean it's only been like three
0:33:25days so far so for these three days it's
0:33:28been totally fine but there's four more
0:33:31something like that yeah so there's
0:33:33still a while ago i'm mainly finding it
0:33:35challenging that like like last night
0:33:37you know so is the last night was sunday
0:33:39night and he he's in he's in like a
0:33:41school day camp just like that you know
0:33:43de Kamp is preschool the summertime I i
0:33:46have to pack his lunch every day and I
0:33:48realized last night like a big part of
0:33:49what we pack is fruit of some kind like
0:33:52you know raspberries or strawberries or
0:33:54something and there was just nothing in
0:33:56the fridge we had none and he was
0:33:58already in bed
0:33:59it was like ten o'clock at night oh also
0:34:01Marco doesn't know where food comes from
0:34:04no I would usually comes from me going
0:34:06shopping for it but I can't leave the
0:34:08house with him that's your shopping with
0:34:10the kid
0:34:11imagine that yeah that's what we did
0:34:13today but yeah it's just there's just
0:34:14little things like that that you know
0:34:16like I had to realizing oh when you have
0:34:18two parents in the house one of them can
0:34:20leave and go go run an errand and you
0:34:23don't go to jail you know so it's it so
0:34:27it's been a slight learning experience
0:34:29like that but otherwise yeah things are
0:34:31going pretty feel like I've had it
0:34:32before alone just think is the longest
0:34:35span that we've ever had and see the
0:34:37chatroom see this is this is a rookie
0:34:39mistake here so a sip in the chat room
0:34:42has suggested that I go food shopping
0:34:44while he is a camp that is an
0:34:46interesting idea
0:34:48sip I thought of that however then after
0:34:51school in the six hours before he goes
0:34:54to bed
0:34:55that's one less thing we could do
0:34:56together
0:34:57we have a whole week here the whole week
0:35:01so we get any any area that i can run
0:35:04with him i'm going to run with him
0:35:06yep i know those fields and that
0:35:08actually segways someone nicely into a
0:35:12brief follow-up I wanted to discuss
0:35:14which was a friend of the show
0:35:16underscore David Smith came down to
0:35:18visit on Friday evening into Saturday
0:35:20morning we watch The Hunt for Red
0:35:22October together because it's one of the
0:35:24best movies the entire world come at me
0:35:26and then saturday morning which is I
0:35:29think you guys do sunday Marco but in
0:35:30the landless household we do a saturday
0:35:32morning into into naptime daddy time and
0:35:37Dave join me on this and we took his
0:35:40Tesla to cars and coffee
0:35:42it was underscore in Declan myself and
0:35:45we took the Tesla cars & coffee and it
0:35:48was funny because I had promised him
0:35:51that we would try to find the
0:35:53self-organizing group of Tesla's that
0:35:55always shows up there's typically three
0:35:57or four of them i even saw a Model X
0:35:59there two to one or two times ago which
0:36:02was surprising but anyway we showed up
0:36:04in the Tesla and i drove there which I
0:36:05was slightly perturbed by only because I
0:36:07felt like this was Dave's big moment and
0:36:09you know here it is you can get out of
0:36:11his car and be like yes well this is so
0:36:13not underscore style but yes look at me
0:36:15in my Tesla this is mine and I'm proud
0:36:16of it but instead it's me instead it was
0:36:19me who got out of the driver's seat and
0:36:21of course we we stepped out of the jar I
0:36:23stepped on the driver's seat within i
0:36:24kid you not 15 seconds somebody came
0:36:26running over to ask questions and I
0:36:27basically threw my hands in the air and
0:36:28wave them like I just don't get no I
0:36:30threw my hands in the air instead dude
0:36:32it's his car
0:36:33you should ask him about it but yeah it
0:36:34made quite a splash people quite liked
0:36:36it
0:36:37yeah we were packed in as you do because
0:36:40I'm not an animal and I was back in
0:36:42against maserati so it was pretty
0:36:44interesting but it was funny how many
0:36:46people were just completely impressed by
0:36:49and and interested in the Tesla and
0:36:52perhaps even more surprisingly really
0:36:55loved the rear jump seats they really
0:36:57thought three jumps were interesting to
0:36:59the point that I i think it was a kid it
0:37:01was like 15 18 year-old something like
0:37:03that to ask if he could jump in the
0:37:06jumpseat just to see how they have a
0:37:07fail how they felt which underscore
0:37:09because he's a nice man alive was like
0:37:11sure definitely definitely feel free but
0:37:14it was funny and underscore is is
0:37:17hysterical watching him do this because
0:37:18he's like the most easygoing guy
0:37:20meanwhile i wouldn't be able to hide the
0:37:22fact that my you know my plumage had
0:37:25come out in full force if you will if it
0:37:27were me but underscores just like
0:37:28announce the thing is he's just so much
0:37:31better than I am now he's way cooler
0:37:33than all of us yet pretty much what a
0:37:35nice car though I kind of a mad at him
0:37:37now because I've forgotten how much I
0:37:38hate my car i had forgotten how much I
0:37:40hate my car and then I drove his test
0:37:42again and now I hate my car again that
0:37:43you have a very nice car just the test
0:37:45was better i have a wonderful car truly
0:37:48do but a kind of test so nice i saw
0:37:51white m3 today and thought you know
0:37:52thanks buddy anyone or an older one that
0:37:55was the last generation the one that you
0:37:56like but it was the fucking door like
0:37:58converter i think it was convertible is
0:38:00at least two door so it's like the weird
0:38:02one snap question I know we're not
0:38:04really in the neutral part of the show
0:38:05but I have to ask friend friend of the
0:38:07show who will remain nameless has been
0:38:10debating between m2 and boxster s what
0:38:14do you think so with the caveat that
0:38:16driven either i would say I mean those
0:38:18are very different cars like the boxer
0:38:20is like you know it's convertible I
0:38:22assume right because the kid that came
0:38:24asking everyone so yes okay it's
0:38:25convertible it's probably smaller if I
0:38:28had to take a guess I would guess the
0:38:29box was probably more expensive it is
0:38:31why are you waffling there's an obvious
0:38:33answer air Marco finish the thought that
0:38:35I want to hear the obvious answer so get
0:38:36the m2 that's not it is not the answer
0:38:38the correct answer first of all don't
0:38:40get the new generation boxer like the
0:38:43one with the the turbo engine get the
0:38:45previous generation boxster if it's
0:38:47still on sales not get like it used one
0:38:49that's the obvious choice
0:38:50it's so much better than the m2 and
0:38:52every possible the car will make you
0:38:53happier because if you're shopping for
0:38:55him to or boxer you're not looking for
0:38:57like going something to all the
0:38:58groceries of the kids get the previous
0:39:00generation non turbo charged boxer well
0:39:04so again having driven none of these two
0:39:07cars and now the third about to mention
0:39:08why get the boxster when you can get the
0:39:10Cayman isn't the Cayman better in every
0:39:13way and has all the same advantage of
0:39:14the boxer this person once i Convertible
0:39:16obviously the shopping boxer mix
0:39:18convertible the top comes that's a big
0:39:19difference if you're shopping horrible
0:39:21you're not confused about whether you
0:39:22know
0:39:23you want to convert you want to
0:39:24convertible nobody wants a convertible
0:39:25people like them
0:39:26no no but it's not convertible it's it's
0:39:29one of those decisions that you should
0:39:30choose to sway people away from like no
0:39:32you trust me you don't want to
0:39:33convertible how their this well this
0:39:36person wants one and I think it's fine
0:39:37and the box the box was just a more
0:39:39special car yes it is more expensive the
0:39:40M two is a good car if you're shopping
0:39:42like em two verses m3 then we're gonna
0:39:44have a real discussion but it was them
0:39:45to vs. box or no contest boxer previous
0:39:48gen yeah i know you want to wear socks
0:39:50with sandals but trust me you don't want
0:39:52to wear socks with sandals you don't
0:39:54want to convertible convertibles are not
0:39:55sauce and fun experiences but I'm
0:39:58talking about like Jaguar convertible
0:40:00from the eighties that are going to leak
0:40:02water all over you and short out that
0:40:03modern convertibles are fine not there
0:40:05they're never find out about
0:40:07convertibles a fine car in general I'd
0:40:10really do like convertibles but yeah
0:40:12this particular individual let's just
0:40:14say that they're always on vacation so
0:40:16it would make sense for this particular
0:40:18individual to be shopping a convertible
0:40:20but anyway um yeah I was just curious
0:40:23like years ago in like 10 2005 I a
0:40:27friend of a friend had a Boxster S this
0:40:30is when they're still pretty new and i
0:40:33drove that box dress and I got in that
0:40:36car thinking others just an imposter 911
0:40:38I'm gonna hate this piece of garbage and
0:40:39all my god did I loved it it was
0:40:42phenomenally good i was stunned i could
0:40:45see all the non s boxer would be kind of
0:40:47a dog and kind of boring but man the box
0:40:50dress was nice this way back no.5 I
0:40:52haven't driven them to there is a friend
0:40:55at work that has m235i that i have yet
0:40:58to drive without he promised me I could
0:40:59at some point and this obviously it's
0:41:01just that but more but yeah that the old
0:41:04boxers anyway super nice i'm curious to
0:41:06see how this new one is we are all
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0:42:51Parker for sponsoring our show a quick
0:42:57follow-up on the neutral thing
0:42:58apparently the 2016 model is the bad
0:43:01boxer it's when they added 17 to the
0:43:03public-facing name the Porsche 718
0:43:06boxster that's 2016 model don't get that
0:43:09one you want the 2015 boxster which
0:43:12doesn't have a number in the name it
0:43:14does have a number 98 one is that the
0:43:15number behind the scenes but it's just
0:43:17called boxer so it's confusing i know
0:43:19because karma is always on they do look
0:43:22very similar but the 2016 one with the
0:43:25turbo four-cylinder engine thumbs down
0:43:28so we thought the neutral part of the
0:43:30show was over but turns out it's not
0:43:32apple was hired somebody from QX which
0:43:35is interesting so qnx is a company that
0:43:41makes an operating system also called
0:43:43qnx and that operating system
0:43:46I understand to run a bunch of embedded
0:43:48systems not least of which is
0:43:50so is it the entertainment system in
0:43:52cars or is it the actual like ECU and
0:43:55cars
0:43:55I don't think it's well it might be the
0:43:57ECU but i think what did its most known
0:44:00for its like that the reason you people
0:44:02care economics at all is because it's a
0:44:03real-time operating system so you would
0:44:04never need a real-time operating system
0:44:06to run like your infotainment because
0:44:07things are slow as molasses anyway
0:44:09oh my god so slow yeah well but the link
0:44:11in the show notes about what
0:44:12no that would be the entry in real-time
0:44:13operating system which describes it
0:44:15pretty well basically real-time
0:44:16operating system is the only situation
0:44:18where you can make guarantees about when
0:44:22things will happen so you can say we be
0:44:25guaranteed that this thing will be
0:44:27serviced in a maximum of this amount of
0:44:30time writing is hard real-time and soft
0:44:32real-time soft real-time you know cries
0:44:34very hard to to give you know computing
0:44:37time to certain things and certain
0:44:38intervals and hard real-time is like
0:44:40this is a part of the system you are
0:44:43going to be able to service this in a
0:44:45certain interval at minimum and use hard
0:44:47real-time systems for things like space
0:44:49probes or flight control systems where
0:44:51you can't have like a space probe
0:44:54whizzing around the solar system and
0:44:57have it go to do something that has to
0:44:59be done with millisecond precision and
0:45:00then have a a memory allocation happen
0:45:02or interrupt happen when you didn't
0:45:04expect it and not have your routine
0:45:06service for an extra couple of
0:45:07milliseconds because there was like a
0:45:08little icon right on our personal
0:45:10computers those little hiccups and
0:45:11glitches happen all the time but in
0:45:14real-time operating systems especially
0:45:15hard real-time operating systems that
0:45:17the whole design is made so that can't
0:45:19happen ever
0:45:20and the reason this comes up for
0:45:21automotive things is there are some
0:45:23things in automotive systems that are
0:45:24like that you know anti-lock brakes
0:45:27possibly also engine control things
0:45:29where you can't ever have any kind of
0:45:31pick up you always have to have things
0:45:33done on a certain time line within a
0:45:36certain deadline but some fuzzy decided
0:45:38but like there are limits that you need
0:45:41things to happen right now guaranteed
0:45:43every single time no possibility that it
0:45:44could make it happen so I think we
0:45:47talked about this we're talking about
0:45:48like what kind of what could Apple bring
0:45:49the cars with software we talked a lot
0:45:50about like like Barbie mb entertainment
0:45:53systems and the UI and things that Tesla
0:45:55does on its big touchscreen that's all
0:45:57well and good Apple probably good then
0:45:58you can basically run Iowa
0:46:00it's on that and you'll be fine but for
0:46:01the other parts of the car that driving
0:46:04parts whether they be self driving or
0:46:06just simply driver aids or smart cruise
0:46:08control or engine control and stuff like
0:46:10that that stuff has to be real time
0:46:12because it's a safety issue you can't
0:46:15have me you know you can't have any like
0:46:17stutter or whatever that you see and and
0:46:20regular operating systems and you know
0:46:21offering something like I was ten do
0:46:23have things with a try to give you
0:46:24guarantee times like audio processing
0:46:26but anyone who's ever used audio on a
0:46:27Mac knows that it's not a hard real-time
0:46:30operating system you can get into
0:46:32situations so you have underflow and you
0:46:33have a little stutter and you know your
0:46:35disk isn't fast enough or whatever parts
0:46:37of the whole chain can fall down to give
0:46:39you a failure in the weather the audio
0:46:41or video but a hard real-time system
0:46:43just simply can't do that it has to give
0:46:45guaranteed time slices to all the
0:46:48software running which means it's much a
0:46:50very different thing for you to create
0:46:51you wouldn't create a real-time
0:46:52operating system even for someone like
0:46:54to watch it would be silly but it's very
0:46:57different than anything apple has ever
0:46:58created to my knowledge and so that's
0:47:00why it's interesting to see this person
0:47:02who i think it was like that the founder
0:47:04of q XR jump that's right some bigwig
0:47:06and QX it's not like he's the one
0:47:08writing the real-time operating system
0:47:09but he was well in the beginning but you
0:47:11don't even like now I'm sure I was not
0:47:13hiring into right there operating
0:47:14systems or if you're going to hire
0:47:15someone to be in charge of the real-time
0:47:18operating system effort for your car or
0:47:21whatever the guy who is the founder of q
0:47:24NX is pretty darn good hire yeah and
0:47:27real-time follow-up from wikipedia where
0:47:29everything is guaranteed to be true at
0:47:31the geneva motor show Apple demonstrated
0:47:33carplay which provides an iOS like user
0:47:35interface to head units and compatible
0:47:36devices once configured by the
0:47:37manufacturer QX can be programmed to
0:47:39hand off its display in certain
0:47:40functionality to an apple carplay device
0:47:42so it seems at least for now that can
0:47:45actually be used for carplay but like
0:47:47John is as described maybe more than
0:47:49that and blackberry about human acts
0:47:51like it's not as if you can access the
0:47:53only useful for real-time like
0:47:54blackberry bottoms like oh they can be
0:47:55our phone OS like it big QX is a
0:47:57flexible operation you make do whatever
0:47:59you want but for if Apple's ever going
0:48:02to any self-driving stuff or even just
0:48:03like the you know the the barrier to
0:48:06entry for just a basic car with simple
0:48:08smart cruise control and lane departure
0:48:10warning stuff like that or even just
0:48:11anti-lock braking systems or what
0:48:13ever you need a real-time operating
0:48:15system to do that type of functionality
0:48:17and the question is always applicant it
0:48:21invent one in house is already have one
0:48:23in house is it going to I mean obviously
0:48:25didn't just want the it hired this guy
0:48:27didn't buy qnx I forget who owns the
0:48:29assets the Qax maybe blackberry still
0:48:31around i guess they still wanted at this
0:48:32point mom anyway this is a problem that
0:48:37they need solved if they're ever going
0:48:38to make a car like an actual complete
0:48:41car instead of just like some component
0:48:43of a car the software system for a car
0:48:45so I think this is the first public
0:48:48signal that they are serious about this
0:48:52aspect of the car as opposed to all the
0:48:53rumors like well of course it's going to
0:48:54be self driving and of course it's going
0:48:56to that this higher really only makes
0:48:58sense in that in the context of car
0:49:02software that does the car stuff the
0:49:04safety related car stuff
0:49:06yeah the gentleman's name is damn dodge
0:49:08for the record the unfortunate name for
0:49:11really ended up not a motive sort of so
0:49:13I guess that makes sense right
0:49:15I know but Dodgers not really the brand
0:49:17that i will probably want to evoke yeah
0:49:19I don't know whatever i'm at least in
0:49:22part of products with mopar family so
0:49:23nobody's perfect but yeah it's really
0:49:26interesting i like you said John I think
0:49:27what's most interesting about this to me
0:49:29is that it's a public signal that Apple
0:49:32is moving towards automotive I mean sure
0:49:34you could interpret this in many other
0:49:36ways short qnx does seem to underpin
0:49:39blackberry 10 or the the newest
0:49:41blackberry operating system i think but
0:49:43anyway the point is all signs point to
0:49:46this being an automotive related higher
0:49:48and and a high-profile one so I don't
0:49:51know where there's smoke there's fire
0:49:52and there's ever-increasing amounts of
0:49:54smoke seem like Apple is kind of like
0:49:56decreasing ly o lay about their car
0:50:00plans they're like they're just not even
0:50:02denying them anymore and he's like yeah
0:50:04okay you guys all know we're making a
0:50:06car right and something they could do
0:50:08which is definitely an apple move is for
0:50:09the first car that comes out 20 20 or
0:50:12whatever like if they're just starting
0:50:13the real-time operating system ever now
0:50:15it's not gonna be ready in time for that
0:50:16right so what they can do is release a
0:50:19car that's not self-driving
0:50:21it merely uses third-party components
0:50:23for its engine control and anti-lock
0:50:25brakes and it's airbags and it's smart
0:50:28cruise control these are all things that
0:50:29you can buy you know from various
0:50:31manufacturers off-the-shelf an apple
0:50:33does the car play part of the car right
0:50:35in the UI and all the things that are
0:50:36not real time that are just you know you
0:50:38i type things and that's still a
0:50:41perfectly good Apple car and in the
0:50:44meantime over the next three or four or
0:50:45five years they work on their
0:50:47self-driving thing with their own
0:50:48real-time operating system that it's
0:50:49kinda like the ipod approach where you
0:50:51know they had that pic slowest thing or
0:50:53whatever the day from a third-party the
0:50:55license then using their ipods when it
0:50:57came time to the iphone they didn't put
0:50:58that over
0:50:59oh that was one of the competing options
0:51:01internally they they did their own thing
0:51:02it takes a long time to do your own
0:51:04thing
0:51:04I'm not sure depending on what stage
0:51:06there right now and if this is coming on
0:51:08board to Shepherd their multi-year
0:51:11running real-time operating system
0:51:13effort to just make sure like it's on
0:51:15track in to you know get a gun then
0:51:17maybe they can hit 2020 but if they're
0:51:19just starting their ever now and
0:51:20staffing up i don't think they're gonna
0:51:21be ready in time for current running and
0:51:23I think they need to be because nobody
0:51:25has produced a completely self driving
0:51:27car this point they can drive in any
0:51:29roads and I don't think apple is going
0:51:30to in 2020 either so it might be smart
0:51:32to put out a car that is impressive and
0:51:35good in all the ways that Apple's cars
0:51:37can be good but that Apple outsources
0:51:39all the parts that it's not innovating
0:51:41and essentially like they don't have any
0:51:43particular innovation to add to and you
0:51:45like breaking your or adaptive cruise
0:51:46control or engine control and so there's
0:51:48no reason for them to put their own
0:51:49operates in fact it's a huge risk to do
0:51:51that just their third party vendors who
0:51:53make parts for the rest of the car
0:51:55industry that you can buy those things
0:51:56from the software and hardware they
0:51:58should just do that and put all their
0:52:00effort into the design of the car and
0:52:02the UI in the parts that they're good at
0:52:03all right so I guess we're out of
0:52:06neutral portion of the show which means
0:52:07only one thing left to talk about that
0:52:08we might have to go through the stupid
0:52:10tivo section i offer i can explain the
0:52:13mp3 file format to you if you want and
0:52:14why podcasts apparently aren't and maybe
0:52:16can't be vbr oh yeah where does that go
0:52:19that was in the show notes then
0:52:20disappear it John demoted it right
0:52:22before the show oh I was the motive the
0:52:24Swift thing too is I don't think there's
0:52:26much to say but you put their gay so
0:52:27what you have to say about swift swift
0:52:29update it's gonna be quick to be honest
0:52:30mostly I just wanted to hear you hear
0:52:32your reaction to the line about
0:52:34the the goal being to be better at
0:52:37regular was it regular expressions then
0:52:39purl way to remember a time i read them
0:52:42on the Swift evolution mailing list i
0:52:43read all these things I'm I'm soaking in
0:52:46it there's nothing that's what is going
0:52:49to be surprised
0:52:50that's a reference to an ad that was on
0:52:52before you're both delightful anyway so
0:52:54I tell me John what you think about this
0:52:56claim that Swift will be better than
0:52:58string processing then purl not a claim
0:53:02it's a goal and the goal is not a
0:53:03promise if you would know if you read
0:53:04this
0:53:04yes i did read it I did really just
0:53:06kinda I'm just trying to get you to get
0:53:08a rise out of you anyway tell me about
0:53:10it
0:53:10number its fine so like Swift three that
0:53:13a lot of lofty goals some of them is
0:53:15particularly ABI stability they didn't
0:53:17get not api api application binary
0:53:21interface which basically means can
0:53:22Apple build a library and Swift and ship
0:53:26it with their operating system and then
0:53:27people ship applications that link to
0:53:30that binary and then can they update
0:53:32that binary the next person operating
0:53:33system and not break people's
0:53:34applications because the applications
0:53:37that are linking to the library and
0:53:38expecting things to be in certain places
0:53:39and find certain symbols
0:53:41how do you update that you need ABI
0:53:42stability if you change the calling
0:53:44convention 04 libraries and you release
0:53:46a new version of that library it will
0:53:49break everybody's applications because
0:53:50they they're binaries expect a call in
0:53:51to a different way so so if the still
0:53:53point where they haven't nailed that
0:53:54town and wanted to episode 3 but it
0:53:57didn't make it a lot of things they did
0:53:59doing with three are the reason because
0:54:01they're still trying to nail down
0:54:02generics and some other features that
0:54:04effect
0:54:05ABI and also this resiliency stuff where
0:54:07it's like if we change aspects of the
0:54:10language now again can we make a new
0:54:12version of library and have the old
0:54:14applications still work with it
0:54:15this is important for its most important
0:54:18for us vendors what Apple does the ship
0:54:19libraries like UI kit and many other
0:54:21you know it's an umbrella framework
0:54:22whatever huge libraries that application
0:54:25link against individual application
0:54:27developers for the most part unless they
0:54:28have like a suite of applications and
0:54:30they have their own frameworks that they
0:54:31share between them
0:54:32you can always application better just
0:54:34at the link your whole thing but you're
0:54:35going to dynamically linked to the OS
0:54:36libraries but up until this point
0:54:39everyone shipping a swift app was sort
0:54:41of shifting shipping uh with the entire
0:54:44Swift standard library as part of their
0:54:46application because it was the only safe
0:54:48way to do that and that's sort of
0:54:49untenable even for applications to be
0:54:51shipped that way so apples gonna fix
0:54:53that problem and swift for that is now
0:54:55they're going for so forth they still
0:54:57have some issues to work out
0:54:59leftover stuff from 23 to make that
0:55:01possible and they're trying to put
0:55:03forward two phases one is like the
0:55:05important stuff and then it's like the
0:55:06threat the frills
0:55:08interestingly the in the important stuff
0:55:09section the stage one of swift for one
0:55:12thing the case he was talking about is
0:55:13that they're going to take another crack
0:55:14at their strings they can change the
0:55:16strings couple times already and they're
0:55:18gonna fill with them again and their
0:55:19goal is to be as good at string handling
0:55:21as parlous which is actually fairly
0:55:23lofty goal because parole for all its
0:55:26historic weirdness is actually really
0:55:28fast dealing with strings and can do
0:55:31things that most other languages can do
0:55:33in terms of Unicode and all sorts of
0:55:35cool stuff like that
0:55:36I to hold on i was going to ask you
0:55:38about this I I now I am NOT trying to
0:55:40needle um honestly asking what makes
0:55:43pearl so good at string processing I
0:55:44know that like regular expressions
0:55:46expressions are I guess like a first
0:55:48class citizen or something but I've
0:55:49written very little pearl my life and it
0:55:50was a long time ago so can you give like
0:55:53an executive summary of what makes pearl
0:55:55so don't go to this because it seems
0:55:56universally accepted that it is so why
0:55:59well this two aspects one is string
0:56:02representation which is weird and pearl
0:56:04for historical reasons and is actually
0:56:05very complicated but for example in a
0:56:09language like objective-c that doesn't
0:56:10sort of have native strings like you've
0:56:13got you know character pointers which
0:56:15are no good for you because we live in
0:56:17the modern world
0:56:18I mean you had a string and a string is
0:56:21like utf-16 under the covers
0:56:23there's also some methods to get what
0:56:24you want but it's not a particularly
0:56:25efficient format if you had to pick like
0:56:27you never pick utf-16 as an internal
0:56:29representation for because it's just not
0:56:30it's not the way to do things
0:56:33in the modern world it's bigger than you
0:56:34wanted to be it's still not fixed size
0:56:37because you have things that did take
0:56:38you know it's not everyone that you know
0:56:40you have characters take multiple sets
0:56:43of the bytes in studio it's not it's not
0:56:46uniform like an array-like it has all
0:56:48the disadvantages none of the advantages
0:56:49pearls representation used to just be
0:56:53bag of bytes and they were smart enough
0:56:55to switch to utf-8 internally pro can do
0:56:58everything every other language can in
0:57:00terms that has libraries that you could
0:57:02encode and decode however you want the
0:57:04way you want to write things in pearl is
0:57:06when you pull data into pearl from
0:57:09whatever from the disk from the network
0:57:10or whatever that string data you have to
0:57:12know the encoding obviously because
0:57:14otherwise how do you help you know how
0:57:15to deal with it and you want to sort of
0:57:17decoded into pearls internal
0:57:18representation then all three or poker
0:57:21program you want to deal with I don't
0:57:23know what you might call it like pearl
0:57:24strings where they they are just strings
0:57:28that pearl understand that you don't
0:57:30have to deal with the encoding and all
0:57:32pearls functions in terms of regular
0:57:33expressions and sub string matching and
0:57:35all sorts of other stuff deal with them
0:57:37as logical sense of characters or fan of
0:57:41comic characters whereas unicode code
0:57:42points right and when you output them
0:57:45whether to be a disk file or terminal or
0:57:48over the network whatever at that point
0:57:50you decide how you want to encode it for
0:57:52transmission you turn it back into a
0:57:54byte sequence with the utf-8 16 so on
0:57:56and so forth and because the modern
0:57:58world basically uses utf-8 everywhere
0:57:59and parole you know secret secret
0:58:03unbeknownst to you use utf-8 internally
0:58:05as internal representation you can go
0:58:07through that whole cycle without ever
0:58:08having to encode and decode which is not
0:58:10the case for a string which isn't a
0:58:12native feature of delicacy and every
0:58:14time you come from utf-8 and tennis
0:58:15string instrumental string back to utf-8
0:58:17it's an expensive process so that's just
0:58:20like the most fundamental level
0:58:22why is it convenient to deal with stuff
0:58:23in Pearl because they picked a good
0:58:25internal representation format because i
0:58:26have a system that says we decode on the
0:58:29way in our entire working with the
0:58:31string of the program you don't have to
0:58:32worry about the reputation but trust us
0:58:33it'll be efficient and an output UN code
0:58:36to whatever you want to be and that's a
0:58:38no op it's utf-8 through the whole way
0:58:40and then after that it's like okay well
0:58:41then your representation is good your
0:58:44algorithms are efficient in terms of
0:58:46allocating but for strings when you
0:58:48start a pending and realizes you're
0:58:49going to keep ending so pre-allocated
0:58:50you know like also just smart things
0:58:52like that
0:58:53Pearl's regular expression engine is you
0:58:55know that the gold standard of a regular
0:58:57expression engines in terms of the
0:58:59number of years that have been put into
0:59:00both the syntax and the engine itself
0:59:02with all sorts of crazy efficiencies
0:59:04we're going to look at your regular
0:59:05expression figure out you know what i
0:59:08can see that is it faster way to do this
0:59:10than using you know just a regular
0:59:12regular session I could do something
0:59:13simpler because I can shortcut this by
0:59:16looking at the anchor and optimizing it
0:59:18to an index lookup or use a DFA when
0:59:20it's faster than fa rapes engine because
0:59:23I can look at the regular session like
0:59:24it is very clever optimizations for
0:59:27regular expression engine addition to
0:59:28all the features i think we're talking
0:59:31about for the Swift stuff is they just
0:59:33want their switch strings to be as
0:59:34powerful as pearl strings is convenient
0:59:36to deal with that have a nice can be
0:59:38methods for doing things and that when
0:59:39you use those methods things are fast
0:59:41because you can get in trouble really
0:59:43fast with strings if you have to keep
0:59:44changing representation internally or
0:59:46your internal representation is weird
0:59:47and anytime you have to do any operation
0:59:49you have to like walk the whole string
0:59:50defined boundaries between things or
0:59:52whatever there's lots of lots of chances
0:59:55for inefficiency or even just like you
0:59:57have a string in your repeatedly pending
0:59:59and making a bigger and biggest
0:59:59and making a bigger and biggest
1:00:00bring that can be massively inefficient
1:00:01to if you are careful about how you
1:00:02allocate memory so pearl for all the
1:00:05weirdness know there is one is related
1:00:07to this that didn't wanna go into mom is
1:00:10very fast and has like all the features
1:00:13you can possibly imagine some which may
1:00:14be obscure but the investments was going
1:00:16for they want to be faster than NS
1:00:18string which they didn't list but
1:00:19they're not gonna throw their own stuff
1:00:20under the best number faster and better
1:00:22than NS string native to the language
1:00:25and really efficient internally with
1:00:28lots of operations and then regular
1:00:29expressions were in the face to where
1:00:31it's like that's a nice day we just need
1:00:32to get the string representation and the
1:00:34basic features down and then we can add
1:00:35regular expressions at any point after
1:00:37that and that's a whole the project like
1:00:39how do we make a really fast regular
1:00:40expression engine but that's that's in
1:00:42the face to box the phase two is the
1:00:44goodies in phase one is like eat your
1:00:46vegetables and get get our house in
1:00:48order to get everybody down figure out
1:00:50with generics going to be and by the way
1:00:52async stuff that's that's even farther
1:00:55in history it's not even gonna be so for
1:00:57probably know like icing kuwait and I
1:00:59actually didn't get to use that too much
1:01:01my C sharp days but i know enough to
1:01:03know that's super awesome but you know
1:01:05what i did use a lot of my csharp days
1:01:06and i'm really excited about reflection
1:01:09super stoked about that was that stage
1:01:11one I forget this reflection stage 1
1:01:13stage 2 so reflection is basically a it
1:01:16allows you to it allows your code to
1:01:18look at itself
1:01:20hence reflection and make decisions
1:01:22about things and i think i like it so
1:01:26much because it's my favorite hammer and
1:01:28so everything looks like a nail to me
1:01:30and there's certainly appropriate times
1:01:32and ways to use reflection and
1:01:33inappropriate times and ways to use
1:01:34reflection but they're there sometimes I
1:01:37can think of a contrived example right
1:01:38off my head but there are some times
1:01:40when when reflection is a very powerful
1:01:42way to solve a problem and I think a lot
1:01:45of the kvetching that was going on in
1:01:47the past about how swift is not dynamic
1:01:50enough for some of the developers
1:01:53particular generally speaking the old
1:01:55objective-c guard a lot of that would
1:01:58potentially a lot of that complaining
1:02:00would potentially go away with more
1:02:02robust reflection because there is some
1:02:03support Swift but it's really really
1:02:05crappy that's with today but it's really
1:02:07crappy i don't i'm excited about what's
1:02:11coming I think
1:02:12everything in this post by chris lattner
1:02:15which will link in the show notes all
1:02:17that is worth reading I don't think
1:02:19there's any really wasted words and i'm
1:02:21really curious to see where this goes it
1:02:22seems like they're learning from their
1:02:24mistakes are learning from
1:02:25over-promising and under-delivering or
1:02:27maybe it seems from their perspective
1:02:29they didn't necessarily promise ABI best
1:02:31ability in three but they didn't do a
1:02:35good job of staying with their intention
1:02:37was whether or not you agree with that
1:02:39whatever but the point is they're trying
1:02:40to be a lot better about that in the
1:02:42future maybe a stability was a goal so
1:02:44if everybody got as they got into
1:02:46swiftrage i think they realized a couple
1:02:47of things one of the the appetite for
1:02:51syntax changes and Swift seems to be
1:02:53waning like as in people got it kinda
1:02:56like I just learned with two or Swift
1:02:582.12 by now we're gonna change it again
1:03:00as with three and so there was kind of
1:03:02eventually a a rush say look this is
1:03:05probably our last big chance to change
1:03:08some tax stuff so everybody let's like
1:03:10it was any other sin tax crap in the
1:03:12language overusing equals here we should
1:03:14use the colons or casing of things
1:03:16inconsistent between this and that and
1:03:18picking new keywords like now is the
1:03:20time to do is I spent a lot of time and
1:03:21Swift three doing syntax breaking
1:03:24changes non backward compatible changes
1:03:26to the language itself to the characters
1:03:28that you type to make your programs
1:03:30because they're trying to really say we
1:03:33got a little bit you know a little
1:03:34trailing end of syntax changes numbers
1:03:36shutting the door on that and we're
1:03:37saying now that we're never going to
1:03:39have them again but they're they're
1:03:40going to be really you know they have to
1:03:42be really justified as to be really
1:03:44strong reason to then we're going to try
1:03:45to maintain source cumulative
1:03:47probability from Iran so there's a big
1:03:49rush to get those things in the second
1:03:51part is when dealing with the ABI stuff
1:03:53they still haven't sorted out all the
1:03:56generic system and other things that
1:03:57that affect the ABI because they have to
1:03:59figure out what kind of things are we
1:04:02going to be calling in what ways and
1:04:04everything before they can nail down all
1:04:05the ABI and if they hadn't started out
1:04:08that part of language is impossible to
1:04:09the API so it's kind of like they
1:04:11weren't ready to do the ABI yet because
1:04:14there are other things that they had to
1:04:15do first like they went off into the
1:04:17weeds and we're dancing through the
1:04:18daisies and doing other frivolous things
1:04:20right
1:04:21they realize that actually were not at
1:04:23the point yet where we
1:04:24can do ABI stability we haven't figured
1:04:26out all these things that are
1:04:27prerequisites for it so they spent all
1:04:28their time trying to sort of get all
1:04:31that painful stuff out of the way and
1:04:33develop and they're still doing that do
1:04:34all the prerequisites and then hopefully
1:04:36in this in the swift for Stage one time
1:04:38frame they will have all that i'm not
1:04:39sure you know again they were trying to
1:04:41be careful say this is a goal or
1:04:42whatever not a promise it's still not a
1:04:45promise with stage one thing who knows
1:04:46how this will turn out because you can't
1:04:48like the worst mistake they can make is
1:04:50to rush the ABI stability and be stuck
1:04:52with a dumb calling convention that
1:04:54prevents them from adding features later
1:04:55this is like the most important time to
1:04:57not rush to nail things down and set in
1:05:00concrete because once you do that and I
1:05:03will start shipping frameworks that
1:05:04people like their apps against that's it
1:05:06you can't renege on that you can't like
1:05:08oh we're breaking all your absence next
1:05:09release we compile everything right
1:05:11they I mean they really really don't
1:05:12want to do that kind of like you know
1:05:14for for an OS vendor for platform render
1:05:16API promises are something you really
1:05:19don't want to break or if you do break
1:05:21them you want to a carbon 64 and break
1:05:23it before you actually shipped to
1:05:24customers and they're still pissed off
1:05:25about that because they are developed
1:05:27applications against it and plan their
1:05:28products and so is over but it's even
1:05:29worse to be shipped to customers and
1:05:31then a year later say up you know what
1:05:33all your apps don't work anymore and
1:05:34people update their operating system
1:05:36sorry about that so this is really a
1:05:39critical time in Swift and it's much
1:05:41much better for them to continue to miss
1:05:43dates and to make sure they have it
1:05:45solid because once you set this in stone
1:05:47and start shipping and frameworks that's
1:05:49it for many many many years that makes
1:05:53sense
1:05:53Marco you have a lot to add on this
1:05:55would you like to add about this whole
1:05:58Swift thing haha final sponsor tonight
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1:07:15think like it isn't just like a repeater
1:07:17they actually do this kind of side
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1:07:21a simpler Peter would be and you guys
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1:07:27three and i plug them in thinking i'll
1:07:31just try this out so I can talk about on
1:07:32the sponsor me then I'll go back to my
1:07:33actually relatively old airport extreme
1:07:35and the i'm looking at my ear one of my
1:07:39three-year-olds right now because it's
1:07:40sitting right next to me because I liked
1:07:42it enough that i never disconnected it
1:07:43so the management through the ios app is
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1:07:47really like it did the same thing I i
1:07:49hook them up thinking all trying out for
1:07:51you know because their sponsor still
1:07:53hooked up
1:07:54there's then I also still have my other
1:07:55router connected to have them in bridge
1:07:57mode like not that i would recommend
1:07:59doing this really you should just get
1:08:00these and they will do everything but
1:08:01because i have all these rules in my
1:08:02airport router you can set up in bridge
1:08:04mode so i have my previous wireless
1:08:06router not doing anything wireless
1:08:07anymore and those things too is
1:08:09everywhere and I can't go back to not
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1:08:44sponsoring our show
1:08:46it's time whether you end the show or
1:08:51not because if you try to the show now
1:08:52it's just going to be in the after-show
1:08:53that's still part of the show
1:08:55it's so the thing of it is I swear to
1:08:57god it's true i opened and I message
1:08:59window and started writing to Marco you
1:09:02should just end the show after the Swift
1:09:04I know I know your plan doesn't matter
1:09:06doesn't matter if you do it you go ahead
1:09:07and show we're just gonna do in the
1:09:08afternoon I didn't send it I was going I
1:09:11was going to have you know i was gonna I
1:09:13was gonna tell him just do it just end
1:09:15the show and then we'll do it the
1:09:16after-show but it'll be a funny moment
1:09:17but that as i was typing that I message
1:09:19I swear to god this is true as i was
1:09:21typing the iMessage it occurred to me we
1:09:23had more sponsor to do and then I
1:09:24resigned myself to my fate
1:09:27John tell us everything that I'm so
1:09:29excited to know about tebow what you
1:09:31want to hear but mp3 file format i would
1:09:33love to but somebody had to move it down
1:09:36no that doesn't deserve the place that I
1:09:38got that'sthat's down by how we handle
1:09:40email now
1:09:41tivo tivo was purchased by Rho V a long
1:09:46long time ago
1:09:47solo in April long time I tried so hard
1:09:51you guys let's go over the list of
1:09:53things that have happened since the yeah
1:09:55rovi is used to be gemstar even
1:09:58remembers them and make like on screen
1:10:01TV guides like that big gray would you
1:10:02pick some channels and macrovision do
1:10:04you actually remember macrovision like
1:10:06when it was a thing i do know it was
1:10:08like a copy protection for VHS tapes
1:10:11like analog protections and if you
1:10:12bought a VHS that had a movie on that
1:10:14you tried to make a copy of it and now
1:10:16the right equipment the copy would have
1:10:18all these little fuzzy things on it
1:10:19wouldn't look good it was very silly
1:10:21yeah but it has that is weird like
1:10:23alternating bright and dark line that
1:10:25was in the overscan range of the TV
1:10:27picture so that it wouldn't show up on a
1:10:29TV but the idea was to throw off the
1:10:31automatic gain control of the VCR that
1:10:33would you possibly flight from bright to
1:10:35dark and show we are things in this one
1:10:37line so garbled the maximum brightness
1:10:39of the signal is really high right now
1:10:41so tournament game control down and then
1:10:44like then it would go back loading area
1:10:46that now turning trigger making control
1:10:47up and so if you made a copy of a movie
1:10:49with this with the VCR when you know
1:10:51most VCRs would try to automatically
1:10:52balance the brightness of the picture
1:10:54the movie would just isolated a few
1:10:56seconds from light to dark and light to
1:10:58dark
1:10:58as it was adjusting for this line that
1:11:00was actually off-screen yeah of
1:11:02protection has always been crappy but
1:11:04anyway this is the company that bought
1:11:06team its kind of someone had mp3 file
1:11:07format works actually if you get that so
1:11:09many more
1:11:10no we're not talking about that now I'm
1:11:12so the company rovi is a combination of
1:11:15jumpstart macrovision so this is not a
1:11:17company that really makes products that
1:11:20people love like who love macrovision I
1:11:22guess content owners did I mean throwing
1:11:25Rambis and that you have let you know
1:11:26rambutan lots and you have really a
1:11:28favorite team here but Ram bus made like
1:11:31in theory you know their patterns that
1:11:34were used in products to people like but
1:11:36yeah until they were convicted for fraud
1:11:38because at deep links anyone like that
1:11:41you know the gemstar on screen TV guides
1:11:44like a bit to jumpstart suffers
1:11:45enterprise software was sold to people
1:11:47who make cable boxes and macrovision was
1:11:48licensed to people who you know you know
1:11:52content owners for making their thing so
1:11:53this is the company that bought tivo
1:11:55just give a very very brief Tebow recap
1:11:58people who don't know what the boys
1:11:59because it's increasingly larger number
1:12:01of people that evil was one of the
1:12:04original and probably the best-known
1:12:05makers of dvrs digital video recorders
1:12:08which is like a VCR but instead of
1:12:09recording television onto a bunch of
1:12:11tapes and records that video onto your
1:12:13hard drive in the beginning they were
1:12:15they would take analog video and
1:12:16recorded onto a hard drive and
1:12:17eventually they worked with cable cars
1:12:19in digital stuff or whatever and not a
1:12:22lot of people bought TiVo's in the grand
1:12:23scheme of things people who bought them
1:12:24early on early adopters like change
1:12:26their lives are changing bar alive we
1:12:29bought goblin around the same time we
1:12:31had kids when we couldn't like schedule
1:12:33your lives around like Oh a television
1:12:35show is going to be on a date I better
1:12:36be at the TVA if I got some possible the
1:12:38children so along with getting a digital
1:12:40camera getting a tivo around the same
1:12:42time we had kids was a really smart move
1:12:43because now we no longer had to be on
1:12:45the schedule of televisions and really
1:12:47totally changed your life but in terms
1:12:50of how to deal with television everyone
1:12:52has tivo especially but early on like
1:12:54the fact that you could pause live
1:12:55television you recorded anything whether
1:12:56you could choose the show's you want to
1:12:58record by picking the shows instead of
1:13:00programming your VCR to say record
1:13:02channel for an 8pm and stop recording at
1:13:049pm and you would have to do that it
1:13:07just had a built-in guide the children
1:13:09the show you to a season pass for show
1:13:10to say i want to watch next
1:13:12calls whenever the x-files on is
1:13:13recorded only record the new episodes
1:13:15don't record the repeats all sorts of
1:13:17good stuff like that it just became the
1:13:20way we watch television you never
1:13:21actually watched live television and of
1:13:22course the most important feature is the
1:13:25skip button where you could skip 30
1:13:27seconds at a time so you wouldn't have
1:13:28to see any commercials because your DVR
1:13:30you tivo would record the commercials
1:13:31but you would skip over them when you
1:13:32watch because he wants to watch that the
1:13:34current version of tebow has a series
1:13:37i'm assuming a series of humans figuring
1:13:39out where all the commercial break
1:13:40boundaries are and shows so now when
1:13:42you're watching tivo when the commercial
1:13:44start you can hit one button it just
1:13:45jumps past all the commercials in a
1:13:47single button press you may ask yourself
1:13:49hey why do I have to even push the
1:13:50button why doesn't the table just
1:13:51exercise the commercials for me
1:13:53well replaytv did something like that a
1:13:55competitive and I got suit out of
1:13:57existence so he was kind of dancing
1:13:59around but anyway I love TiVo's I keep
1:14:01buying them i always buy the most
1:14:03expensive biggest best TV like possibly
1:14:05can and when a new one comes out i buy
1:14:07that one and keep replacing them they're
1:14:09fairly expensive there's either a
1:14:11monthly fee or you pay a huge amount of
1:14:13money for like a lifetime service and I
1:14:15you should just do that because you know
1:14:16we use the TV wasn't just rotate around
1:14:18the house i'm a big proponent of tivo
1:14:21for many many years I've complained that
1:14:23their software and hardware has been
1:14:24terrible for the amount of money you pay
1:14:26it should be incredibly fast and
1:14:28responsive and it hasn't been they've
1:14:29improved that in recent years but
1:14:31apparently not enough to make people buy
1:14:32their products so I'm if you listen to
1:14:35I don't hypocritical of me complaining
1:14:37about tivo or many podcasts have
1:14:38complained about it same way we can play
1:14:40about cap Apple it's like its product
1:14:42well for me and it's a product i love
1:14:44that i think is the best in the industry
1:14:46but that it could be better in obvious
1:14:49ways and I've always complain that the
1:14:51company seems not to know how to be
1:14:53successful and doesn't understand what
1:14:55it's got like many times I was asking
1:14:57the charge me more money for higher-end
1:14:59product that higher margins like I was
1:15:01ready and willing to pay but really they
1:15:02were going down Market to try to grow
1:15:03their their user base anyway everybody
1:15:07didn't work they were never able to
1:15:09really make any money they're streaming
1:15:11services came and started their lunch
1:15:13and I was sad about that because I think
1:15:16you know until cable companies released
1:15:19their death grip on all the content that
1:15:21we all love which is happening slowly
1:15:22like a lot
1:15:23large increasing number of the shows
1:15:24that i watch are not on quote unquote TV
1:15:27like a stranger things that I just
1:15:28watched as on netflix and not anywhere
1:15:31else orange is the new black house of
1:15:32cards was that a man hi castles and
1:15:37Amazon there is lots of original content
1:15:39coming there but there's still a lot of
1:15:40stuff that's only on television or HBO
1:15:42now Marco can get the HBO thing that you
1:15:44can never remember the name of but it's
1:15:45now the one doesn't require you to have
1:15:47the the cable subscription right so
1:15:50things are happening to eventually take
1:15:52us out of the death grip of cable
1:15:54companies but for many many years and
1:15:56still today in many ways depending on
1:15:59which shows you're interested in the
1:16:00only place to get this content is on
1:16:02television the only place to get it in
1:16:04real time in high quality without having
1:16:07to wait you know is on television and
1:16:10the only civilized way to watch
1:16:11television and my opinion is to use a
1:16:14tivo not to use the DVR that comes from
1:16:16the cable company which are universally
1:16:18very bad but t-bo's been bought by this
1:16:20company and the question was well what
1:16:22we gonna do with them wrote mostly
1:16:23licenses intellectual property and does
1:16:25their on-screen guide stuff doesn't look
1:16:27promising
1:16:28rosie has a lot of patents tivo has a
1:16:30lot of patents related to DVR stuff so
1:16:32everyone's worried like oh yeah they
1:16:34just want to go for the patents through
1:16:35a couple of good signs when they bought
1:16:36them by they bought them for 1.1 billion
1:16:38dollars which is not you know it's not
1:16:40bad that's like an Instagram and a bit
1:16:42right for a company that everyone's like
1:16:44Tebow are they still in business so it's
1:16:45pretty good because they have a lot of
1:16:47important patterns they're also taking
1:16:49the name of tivo which I thought was a
1:16:51good sign like we didn't buy them and
1:16:53say the tivo name is no more now it's
1:16:55just Roe v and we will just stop selling
1:16:57people will stop selling Hardware to
1:17:00customers and we will just stop
1:17:02everything about the company and just
1:17:03like license the patents and become like
1:17:05a patent troll or whatever but the fact
1:17:08that they're taking the name TV over the
1:17:10new company is my thought was a good
1:17:12sign at least in their initial
1:17:13announcement then they started saying
1:17:15well we we don't really feel like we
1:17:18might we have to make these plastic
1:17:19boxes with hard drives in them and give
1:17:21them the customers that Kim seems like a
1:17:22loser business to us so we're looking
1:17:25into other options and people are
1:17:26panicking like oh no like when my tivo
1:17:28dies
1:17:29well I not be able to buy another box it
1:17:33does the same thing this is my big fear
1:17:34because we're at evil household and
1:17:37you keep buying them ever ever catch
1:17:38wind of that happening kinda like with
1:17:39the plasma a new panasonic was stopping
1:17:41making plasmas gonna buy like three of
1:17:43these things and just hope they continue
1:17:45to work until you know they'll break
1:17:47right there aren't dependent on a
1:17:49service run by tivo uh yeah kind of I
1:17:54mean I feel like that's the surmountable
1:17:56problem we're like I don't know what
1:17:58their their commitments are illegal
1:18:00legally to people who bought their
1:18:02products to keep that service up and
1:18:04running for a certain period of time but
1:18:05even if they stop selling the plastic
1:18:08boxes i'm assuming they'll keep running
1:18:09the service first because the service
1:18:11like if you don't pay for lifetime
1:18:12you're paying monthly fee for service
1:18:14and it's got a hugely profitable to just
1:18:16run the service because it's not you
1:18:18know whatever the fee is it's pretty
1:18:19expensive and it's not costing that much
1:18:21per user to keep the service up and
1:18:22running so i'm assuming they'll keep the
1:18:24service running for a while but that is
1:18:26very optimistic
1:18:27well so here here's the here's the angle
1:18:29like the statements that the most recent
1:18:31statement i seen from this is basically
1:18:33the the new owners of the company
1:18:35hinting at the idea that they don't want
1:18:38to make the boxes but they will gladly
1:18:40let somebody else make a box and tivo
1:18:44branded which have done before they did
1:18:45the directv which was the tivo branded
1:18:48for directv if you sign up for direct TV
1:18:50you would get essentially a tivo box
1:18:51integrated with a directv thing in a
1:18:54single unit so that you know from your
1:18:56cable company or your television
1:18:57provider instead of doing the crappy
1:18:59set-top box that they have now they
1:19:01would let them use tivo software and
1:19:03tivo services to give you a tivo power
1:19:06tivo branded box that is not sold to you
1:19:09by tivo so the kind of like armor they
1:19:11were just license to them these
1:19:12electrical properties software and the
1:19:13hardware and maybe they would still run
1:19:15the service or whatever but that would
1:19:17give you a larger variety of potential
1:19:19tivo boxes of all tied to the cable
1:19:21companies which if I had to pick i'd
1:19:24rather than continue to make their own
1:19:25hardware and just be better at it like
1:19:27this
1:19:27that's choice number one second choice
1:19:30of having a bunch of cable companies
1:19:33make tivo branded boxes that's not
1:19:37terrible i suppose the worst is no more
1:19:39cable boxes at all and I have to use the
1:19:41current you know cable company dvrs
1:19:43that's that's my nightmare scenario so
1:19:45keeps you up at night it does because
1:19:48like this is literally how we watch
1:19:50television in the house if it's not on
1:19:51netflix or amazon video it steve-o
1:19:53that's how our apple TV 2 apple users
1:19:56our client boxer netflix or whatever
1:19:58that's how we watch television in the
1:20:00house and I'm just waiting my finger on
1:20:03the trigger to spend like one or two
1:20:05grand on a bunch of the highest-end
1:20:07TiVo's before they stop making
1:20:08amendments I guess when do that i'm
1:20:09going to i love like your nightmare
1:20:12scenario like it's like one of the
1:20:14reasons why I criticize Apple we had to
1:20:17listen to the show somewhere
1:20:18what reasons might criticize apple is
1:20:21that i love using the mac so much and I
1:20:24worry like if the mac ever became
1:20:27something that I couldn't or didn't want
1:20:29to use any more from my work I'd have to
1:20:32switch back to windows and the thought
1:20:34of that
1:20:35I mean I don't say I might even try
1:20:36linux instead like that the thought of
1:20:37going back to Windows it is so like
1:20:41turns my stomach
1:20:42that's how little i want to do that you
1:20:45seem to be having that kind of reaction
1:20:46with the thought of going for a tivo to
1:20:48let the cable companies DVD partner you
1:20:51just you can't go back like just ask
1:20:52anybody who has a tivo like they'll have
1:20:54complaints about it's not the greatest
1:20:55product number but you can't go back to
1:20:56watching regular like live television is
1:20:59barbaric like first of all you see
1:21:01commercials which is you can't go back
1:21:02to that of use and never ever seen
1:21:04commercials and second of all like just
1:21:07losing the ability to pause live
1:21:09television or skip around without a
1:21:11buffer queue up for like you just can't
1:21:13there's no replacement for that because
1:21:15it is always just do screaming well you
1:21:17know what it's like when game of throne
1:21:18comes on like the commercial have to
1:21:20skip but like I can watch it every time
1:21:22whereas when their servers go down
1:21:24because everyone's trying to watch the
1:21:25episode exam time I don't have to deal
1:21:26with that I'm I'm above the fray on that
1:21:28like it is the tivo for all its faults
1:21:31and all its low software passes the bar
1:21:34of being like as reliable for the most
1:21:37part as TV is supposed to be when we
1:21:39were growing up you turn on the
1:21:40television is a picture there right
1:21:42especially if you had cable as the cable
1:21:44is out in which case you see nothing
1:21:45right but if the cable is not out you
1:21:48turn on and the picture is there and you
1:21:50change the channel you can see what's on
1:21:51that channel and never is buffering and
1:21:54never can't find the servers and never
1:21:56asked your iCloud password and
1:21:58there's anything like it's just there
1:21:59like it is it passes that level of
1:22:00reliability this way way more and is
1:22:03only ever slowed slightly less reliable
1:22:05I can't remember the last time I had a
1:22:07time of crash or problem at all with my
1:22:10tivo just sits there like an appliance
1:22:11on all the time 24 hours a day never
1:22:14have to do anything to it and it just
1:22:15runs home and it's it's incredibly high
1:22:19bar that i've been using them since the
1:22:21the series 2 which is not the original
1:22:22one but it was still back in the analog
1:22:24days and everyday box i've had i've been
1:22:26frustrated that it's not faster and
1:22:28doesn't have better hardware in it and
1:22:29can I can't get it with a faster cpu and
1:22:31more ram and a bigger hard drive but
1:22:33other than that the alternative is just
1:22:35unthinkable to me so eventually like
1:22:38when all the streaming services get
1:22:39better and all the content of care about
1:22:41is no longer on court realty but it's
1:22:43all on streaming then I'll be able to
1:22:45leave tivo behind but until then I want
1:22:48something like that and back in the old
1:22:49hypercritical episode about this I
1:22:52talked about what I really wanted Apple
1:22:53to make this back before Apple
1:22:55definitively close the door on ever
1:22:57doing anything tivo like when Steve Jobs
1:22:59was like one of his a most like d3 talk
1:23:02to something like that and basically
1:23:03explain exactly why they're never going
1:23:05to tivo box and made me super said what
1:23:07I always wanted was a company that's
1:23:09better at this than tivo to do what I
1:23:12called an omnivorous box because of my
1:23:14idea back then was like look video comes
1:23:16from million different places even back
1:23:19then there was Netflix and there's cable
1:23:20network over the air and there's local
1:23:22TV and all sorts of other places where
1:23:24you can get video from an itunes and all
1:23:26that stuff it's like I don't want to
1:23:28deal with all those places the video
1:23:30comes from i don't wanna deal with 10
1:23:31remotes I don't want to deal with 10
1:23:32services i don't want to deal with
1:23:34figuring out where it is and how i get
1:23:36it and what input i have switched or
1:23:38anything like that but on the other hand
1:23:40I realized that all the different people
1:23:42who own those things are never gonna get
1:23:44together and say we should make things
1:23:45easier for customers because everybody
1:23:46owns their different content and the
1:23:47different towns has a different
1:23:48licensing deals for the NFL Major League
1:23:51Baseball and all the HBO shows and
1:23:53network programming and all the
1:23:54different channels and cable but like
1:23:55they're never going to get together so
1:23:57the only way to solve is technologically
1:23:59is to do what Tebow did but even bigger
1:24:01to make a box that will eat any kind of
1:24:04input an omnivorous box that says I will
1:24:06sit in front of your television and you
1:24:08just throw all your video crap at me
1:24:11and then a bunch of people will figure
1:24:12out how to integrate with all those
1:24:13services and they will make the software
1:24:15for it and figure out how to do all the
1:24:17integration and you're only interface
1:24:19will be with that I'll never ask box and
1:24:21it takes in all your input and it can
1:24:23record it locally can stream it can do
1:24:24everything and it doesn't matter where
1:24:27it's coming from as far as you're
1:24:28concerned into one unified interface and
1:24:30that's an incredibly hard thing to do
1:24:32google drive to do it
1:24:33tebow has been trying to do because you
1:24:34can do netflix on TV on amazon be open
1:24:36to you and stuff like that but they're
1:24:37not great at either no one has ever made
1:24:39that because it's incredibly hard
1:24:40problem every one of those companies
1:24:42would be your enemy because they don't
1:24:44want you doing that they don't want you
1:24:45being the one and only device television
1:24:46like the cable companies want to do with
1:24:48a set-top box and netflix wants to do
1:24:50that need to have your client and
1:24:51everything like it's incredibly hard
1:24:53thing to do no one has ever even
1:24:54attempted to do except for maybe you
1:24:55will not fail pretty much measurably
1:24:57tebow has come the closest Tebow does it
1:25:00for playing old cable television they
1:25:03were able to do that because of the
1:25:03cablecard thing where you can totally
1:25:05replace your I don't have cable box and
1:25:07all i have found that cable box in my
1:25:08house ever
1:25:10maybe I had when I was in Georgia before
1:25:11a TV out but since i've had people have
1:25:14not having cable box in my house period
1:25:15only had Tebow's the thing you can do
1:25:17because of cable car which was a sec
1:25:19thing they did was not perfect but it's
1:25:21better than nothing and the tivo it's
1:25:25not omnivorous but it will accept all
1:25:27like corte-real TV input and then slowly
1:25:29but surely they added features for like
1:25:31Netflix clients and amazon video clients
1:25:34and the ability to play video from one
1:25:35tivo onto another tivo and they added
1:25:37iOS app which is actually pretty good
1:25:39what I can do everything on my tivo from
1:25:40my phone or my iPad anywhere in the
1:25:42world i can delete shows i can set up
1:25:44season passes i can watch video on it
1:25:46from my tivo anywhere kind of slingbox
1:25:48style I can you know what shows on tivo
1:25:51on the TV downstairs a little extender
1:25:53box you can do if you don't need a full
1:25:54fledge Tebow they actually have a pretty
1:25:56good system in a pretty good product
1:25:57this point it just said that they could
1:25:59never get enough customers to make it
1:26:02work financially i really hope that
1:26:04someone would buy them that had a lot of
1:26:06money that could do really good job of
1:26:08the product but Apple sort of put a
1:26:09stake in the ground said no we're doing
1:26:11the appletv puck thing we're never going
1:26:12to record locally we're just going to
1:26:14streaming that's the future
1:26:15forget about the tivo thing and rovi
1:26:18seems like their plan is we will take a
1:26:22piece of every cable box sold by letting
1:26:23your
1:26:24the box have tivo hardware and software
1:26:25and I didn't get to talk about the
1:26:27remote which is another table innovation
1:26:28of having an actual good remote with a
1:26:31nice shape and distinct buttons that you
1:26:33can use in the dark by feel
1:26:35boy there's a lot of things like about
1:26:37evil and i will be sad when they're gone
1:26:38and right now with rovi owning them it's
1:26:42kind of like a quiet period where
1:26:43nothing is happening but I just really
1:26:44really hope that I can still I'm begging
1:26:48his company let me give you that
1:26:49literally thousands of dollars to buy
1:26:52the most expensive DVR with tivo
1:26:55software that I possibly can that works
1:26:56with my cable cards and i will keep
1:26:58doing that for a long time
1:27:00cool I don't understand why either one
1:27:03of you two don't have tivo boxes you can
1:27:05we'll save that for the next episode and
1:27:06follow-up you to come all this way why
1:27:08you don't have to i can tell you right
1:27:10now the files box just fine
1:27:11it's not that I don't have cable yeah
1:27:14you keep that it's a really quick
1:27:16response to it she doesn't care and I
1:27:20can't use it so there you go
1:27:22actually all kidding aside that is the
1:27:24executive summary right there but here's
1:27:26the thing that with 4k see if you got
1:27:28one you would never be able to get rid
1:27:29of one it's like the Tesla thing like
1:27:31you can't you can't go back
1:27:32no one gets tivo uses it and then it's
1:27:34like go back to the old way it's
1:27:35apparently a lot of people did otherwise
1:27:37he wouldn't be out of business
1:27:39no it's not enough people got them to
1:27:40begin with because it was so much more
1:27:41expensive like the cable box is like oh
1:27:43it's part of my cable to lincoln dollars
1:27:45a month to rent or whatever no does the
1:27:46math to figure out that if you just
1:27:47bought a tivo you were to come out
1:27:48anyway
1:27:49good idea in the show thanks for the
1:27:53responses this week
1:27:55Casper warby parker and 0 and we'll see
1:27:57you next week
1:28:01now the show is over they didn't even
1:28:04mean to be in as it was accidental was
1:28:09accidental
1:28:11John racer Margo in kc would let you
1:28:16because it was accidental was accidental
1:28:21and you can find show know today p dot
1:28:26and if twitter follow them
1:28:33yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a
1:28:38co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our DC at
1:28:46Syracuse
1:28:59I don't the the files box is not good I
1:29:03that as much as I'm trying to get a rise
1:29:06out of you it's not good but it's a
1:29:07meeting for the basic needs that I had I
1:29:09really think like the windows comparison
1:29:11here is apt like the like every DVR
1:29:15that's not a tivo is mediocre at best
1:29:18and that's really being generous
1:29:20you know the interfaces these things are
1:29:22all awful unlike john i actually have
1:29:25reused and lived with a cable company
1:29:27DVR before and yet like yeah they're
1:29:30they're horrible really
1:29:32however most at the whole reason TV
1:29:35doesn't really have much business left
1:29:36anymore is because as you said like most
1:29:39people don't care and they will just be
1:29:41happy to get the one their cable company
1:29:44offers them for a few dollars extra
1:29:45month and that's all they know that's
1:29:48probably the only kind of Arsene know
1:29:50something I don't care it's just that
1:29:52they can't they don't want to pay more
1:29:53that's what it comes down to it steve-o
1:29:54you have to pay for the box which is
1:29:56expensive and then you have to pay for
1:29:58monthly service on top of that that's
1:29:59not part of your cable bill which is the
1:30:01key feature right exactly and then so
1:30:03they yeah they were just never able to
1:30:04remember an able to come up with a
1:30:06business model the customers they got
1:30:07for the most part of you did their
1:30:09customers SAT there be super happy but
1:30:11they could never figure out a way to get
1:30:12people over the barrier and it was
1:30:13substantial barrier because the boxes
1:30:15have always been expensive lifetime has
1:30:17always been super expensive and the
1:30:19monthly bills have also i mean i think
1:30:20they've gone down but they used to be
1:30:21like equal to or more than netflix i was
1:30:23like what am I getting for this like I'm
1:30:25you know it was hard to understand what
1:30:26youre even paying for so it's mostly
1:30:28just a bunch of you know rich people
1:30:29essentially will have these boxes and
1:30:31who enjoy them which is a shame and the
1:30:33windows comparison i would do it like
1:30:34this i think Tebow is the windows where
1:30:36it's like that's good enough it's like
1:30:38maybe the windows 95 there is no Apple
1:30:40that's actually good in all respects
1:30:42like there is no iOS and then the cable
1:30:44boxes or i guess like das maybe or like
1:30:46punch cards
1:30:47thank you know and some cable box is
1:30:50better that like I've seen I seen a lot
1:30:51of these cable box that use them some of
1:30:53them have interesting technological
1:30:54solutions someone actually i think some
1:30:57companies do server-side DVR and
1:30:59industry to over there what's
1:31:00interesting solution to keep hard drives
1:31:02out of people's houses but the UI's are
1:31:04all terrible the capacities are like
1:31:07maybe they're ok for regular people by
1:31:09feel like part of the thing about t-bo's
1:31:10and part of the reason i think
1:31:12I think most ppl customers by the fancy
1:31:14ones is the people who buy our like
1:31:17enthusiasts ensure they will know what
1:31:19is the biggest hard drive you can get
1:31:20the biggest heart ever had in my house
1:31:22was like when they cannot go 3 terabyte
1:31:23hard drive this that was the biggest
1:31:26hard drive my house was the one in my
1:31:27tivo why do I need to like capacity
1:31:29because you realize when you have a lot
1:31:31of room you can do things you can treat
1:31:34it differently you kind of like oh I'm
1:31:35just going to do a season pass and then
1:31:37I'll watch them you can record an entire
1:31:39season of a show and just have it
1:31:41sitting there for like the period of
1:31:42time with no new shows are coming out
1:31:44and then just you know and again this is
1:31:46barbaric people like oh well i dunno
1:31:47netflix has always a house of cards i
1:31:49can watch it whenever I want
1:31:50why don't you have recorded but these
1:31:52are shows that are not available through
1:31:53streaming or all are only available
1:31:55through purchase on itunes our date
1:31:57delayed or whatever like you know again
1:31:59it's getting better
1:32:00back in the day there was this was
1:32:02literally the only place to get a lot of
1:32:03stuff these days it's almost never the
1:32:05only place but it is still often the
1:32:06best place I mean that something like i
1:32:09mean the the reason why Apple never
1:32:10aren't this business is very obvious
1:32:12that it the the DVR as a thing is just
1:32:16an incredible pile of messy hacks
1:32:18everything about it is a messy hack
1:32:21that's a beautiful hack there is no way
1:32:24to make it good
1:32:25there is no way to make it reliable and
1:32:27and perfect there's no way to get what
1:32:29like what it tries to do is turn
1:32:32broadcast TV here and whether it's
1:32:35broadcast over the air cable I'm not
1:32:36distinguishing here effectively into
1:32:38on-demand video but with a ton of
1:32:40asterisks on that and and where you know
1:32:43it's well turns into on-demand video
1:32:44sort of and most of the time but it does
1:32:48a phenomenal job with the only place
1:32:50where it falls down as i said in the
1:32:51fall down neveress thing where it only
1:32:53consumes broadcast television broadcast
1:32:55television is a really really good job
1:32:57they're really good at that but it
1:32:58doesn't take input from any other source
1:33:00and treated the same way it's like if
1:33:03you want to watch netflix or you can
1:33:04load the netflix client and the netflix
1:33:06client evo is not good and neither is
1:33:08the m11 like they're just this is not
1:33:09their strength right so there is no
1:33:11omnivorous box for broadcast TV tivo got
1:33:14pretty darn good at and the number of
1:33:15caveat is really small and if the
1:33:17alternative is just watch it when it's
1:33:20on to use the cable company DVR it's
1:33:22it's night and day
1:33:23ultimately this is it's a really
1:33:26the complex Jackie solution to a problem
1:33:29that shouldn't really exist and the
1:33:32world is moving away from needing to
1:33:34exist
1:33:34yep investing in tivo now would be like
1:33:37investing in cassette tapes in 2002
1:33:39having yeah there might still be some
1:33:41uses for them but it there diminishing
1:33:43and it's not as bad as acceptance but
1:33:45here's the thing about that like apples
1:33:47Apple decision not to do it like they
1:33:48did their own TV thing which is more
1:33:50forward-looking that makes sense right
1:33:51but this was happy when it was done with
1:33:55analog standard-def video and if you had
1:33:59said okay well I'm not going to be
1:34:01interested in that because it's not the
1:34:02future that was what 10 years ago 15
1:34:06years ago like it's not as if like just
1:34:08around the corner we won't have regular
1:34:10television anymore
1:34:10there was a long period of time and
1:34:12during like basically my entire
1:34:13children's life at least decade
1:34:15oh maybe a decade-and-a-half that's it
1:34:1815 years worth of value that they've
1:34:22delivered making my television watching
1:34:24better during that time you could be
1:34:25saying whole time while this isn't the
1:34:27future this is my futuristic yeah but
1:34:28it's a 15 years from like I'm not gonna
1:34:30just throw in 15 years not talk about
1:34:32geological timescales I live through
1:34:33this 15 years acting important years
1:34:35during those 15 years I had a better
1:34:38experience of watching television so
1:34:40maybe if you're investing on a 20-year
1:34:42timescale maybe don't invest in t-ville
1:34:44but I'm glad some company decided it's
1:34:47worth doing this for 50 I mean look at
1:34:51how long you know classic mac OS last
1:34:53July we shouldn't have done that because
1:34:54the future is not this the future is iOS
1:34:56well I was not going to be here in 2007
1:34:59so want to do something between 1984 and
1:35:00then and and maybe we'll get value out
1:35:03of that like it because Apple only turns
1:35:06I television really late to office it
1:35:08wasn't the time for them to do that well
1:35:11I feel still think they would have
1:35:12benefited from for example buying them
1:35:14up and buying all their patents and
1:35:17assets and having them perhaps designed
1:35:19the remote for the apple TV like they're
1:35:20still value that they could extract from
1:35:22the company but whatever they wanted to
1:35:23go their own way but I'm glad to have it
1:35:25was around for her what it was and I
1:35:26still think now there's a place for its
1:35:28fading there they should be they should
1:35:30be shown the door eventually but for
1:35:32that to happen
1:35:33everybody else needs to get on the same
1:35:34page and right now like I would much
1:35:36rather watch Game of Thrones cute up
1:35:38you know 10 or 15 minutes they couldn't
1:35:40get into the room and time on my tivo
1:35:42because i know a hundred percent
1:35:44reliable i'll be able to watch it and I
1:35:46can watch the tears of people as the
1:35:47week on twitter trying to load their HBO
1:35:50now happen they can't get the video to
1:35:52load because lots of people trying to
1:35:54stream it next week tune in for the best
1:35:58cordless phone to buy for your home
1:35:59already did that
1:36:01I think about the wire cutter pic and
1:36:02I'm not happy with it but whenever I
1:36:06seriously we did like it but i love that
1:36:08you wanted to cordless phones like now
1:36:10no new cordless phones plural oh that
1:36:13makes it so much but we have to have we
1:36:15have to have their minds because
1:36:16ourselves like most terrible at her
1:36:17house so we can't reliably just use our
1:36:19cell phones you know obviously both have
1:36:21cell phones there are no other solution
1:36:22to this problem so we have a landline
1:36:24but we don't like we have like you know
1:36:27telephone wire running all over the
1:36:28house so we didn't really need new
1:36:30phones i think our find one of them just
1:36:32had a dead battery but she was annoyed
1:36:33and once we go on no one's everywhere
1:36:35they're not getting much better
1:36:37that's another thing of like our phone
1:36:38cordless phones getting much better not
1:36:40really not really great put the cheap
1:36:43and we got like 5 handsets and you know
1:36:46they're all over the house and they work
1:36:47fine and like you know talking about
1:36:49that much anyway but anyway I had
1:36:51entered the wire cutter pick and it was
1:36:52it was alright i love John that you are
1:36:56that the same man can say oh I must have
1:37:00the best possible version of this
1:37:02antiquated technology and my antiquated
1:37:05edge its oh god I just follows all the
1:37:08menus are in HD now who are you gonna be
1:37:12the one that's buying the accord when
1:37:13everyone else on the planet has a Tesla
1:37:15or other electric vehicle not buying the
1:37:17quarter of its only CVT I'll tell you
1:37:19that my limits no its you know will say
1:37:25maybe we know when I'll stop with the
1:37:26cord but yeah I said I don't have a
1:37:29choice for what am I gonna do it all you
1:37:30shouldn't I call this one you can do
1:37:32everything yourself on wall if I want to
1:37:33hear people's voices I can't and I can't
1:37:35install new cell power so you can
1:37:37actually install really little ones in
1:37:40your house so the little repeated now
1:37:41i'm there's no way in hell I'm doing
1:37:43voice that's something i have the my
1:37:44demand is that phone be as reliable as
1:37:46phone and one of those little repeater
1:37:48things that use the internet connection
1:37:49does not pass that bar for me you can
1:37:52also switch to a carrier that actually
1:37:53works in your house like AT&T know
1:37:55everyone just bit my carrier has the
1:37:57best signal at my house i'm in a there's
1:37:59a cell phone dead zone nearby me where
1:38:01certain section of rich people refuse to
1:38:02have cell towers build another house and
1:38:05the reward is they get no cell signal
1:38:06i'm not in the i'm not in the actual
1:38:09dead zone but I'm close enough to it the
1:38:11dish
1:38:12the great thing about is on my thing I
1:38:14can hear them but I can't hear a word I
1:38:16say they think you're just a really good
1:38:17listener
1:38:18now I calls me all the time my cell
1:38:20phone on at home and I'd say hello you
1:38:22talk to you there are you there family
1:38:23know about talking you can your word I'm
1:38:26saying I can hear everything you're
1:38:27saying perfectly clearly it's great