0:00:00(upbeat music)
0:00:02Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 221.
0:00:12It is made possible this week by our sponsors,
0:00:14Away, Pingdom, and Luna Display.
0:00:17I'm your host, Steven Hackett, and I am joined
0:00:19by my two very handsome, very intelligent co-hosts.
0:00:23I have Myke Hurley, how are you?
0:00:24- Oh, hi.
0:00:26- Welcome back. - Thank you.
0:00:28And we have the king of the Mac Mini, the ruler of the dock, Mr. Federico Vittucci.
0:00:34Hi, I like these new titles that you gave me.
0:00:37I wanted a third one, but I couldn't think fast enough for a third one.
0:00:41Okay, well.
0:00:42The Admiral of Automator.
0:00:44Okay, Admiral, I like that. That's a good word.
0:00:47Mmm, I like that a lot.
0:00:48You know English.
0:00:48Yeah, that's good.
0:00:49Yeah.
0:00:50Admiral Vittucci.
0:00:52Okay, I can go with that. I can go with that.
0:00:55Myke, are you back on the show for real?
0:00:58Like you...
0:00:59Nah.
0:01:00You didn't leave the show.
0:01:01No, I'm just a guest.
0:01:02You're not, you're not, you're just a guest.
0:01:04Just a guest, yeah.
0:01:05Okay.
0:01:06Yeah, I'm just a guest this time.
0:01:07You know, because on this program we talk about the Macintosh and I don't know, you
0:01:13kind of feel out of place.
0:01:14No, it's cool, I bought one.
0:01:15I bought a Macintosh today.
0:01:18You bought a Macintosh computer today?
0:01:19Yeah, I bought a Mac Mini.
0:01:20Which, did you, oh.
0:01:21Yeah.
0:01:22So I'm not a performer.
0:01:23Okay.
0:01:24No, I wanted to be in the core club like you guys, so I bought a Mac Mini as well.
0:01:27Okay, so now we can talk about the Mac Mini. Let's talk about the Mac Mini, Myke. What's
0:01:31your favorite feature of the Mac Mini?
0:01:32It hasn't come yet. It's on the way. My favorite feature so far is how many boxes you have
0:01:38to tick to try and order one, even though you're not 100% sure what any of that stuff
0:01:44really honestly means. Like, do I want 32 gigabytes of RAM or 64? Like, I don't know.
0:01:50So to save us all some email, what did you order?
0:01:54Oh, oh, let me see. Who knows?
0:01:57You wanna find it and we'll come back to it in a second?
0:01:59iPod Touch, got one of those.
0:02:01Okay, good.
0:02:02I got a 3.2 gigahertz, six core,
0:02:07eighth generation Intel Core i7 turbo boost
0:02:09up to 4.6 gigahertz.
0:02:11Ooh, boy, that's a big one.
0:02:14That's a lot.
0:02:15That's definitely more complicated than A12X.
0:02:18It's just as a thing to remember.
0:02:21I got the 32 gigabyte 266 megahertz DDR4.
0:02:25Got one of those.
0:02:26I got the Intel UHD Graphics 630,
0:02:32which is way better than the 620, so I'm pleased.
0:02:34- And it's the only option on the Mac Mini.
0:02:37- No, it's good, it's good, it's good.
0:02:38I wrote to Tim and he made sure I got the right one.
0:02:41I got a one terabyte SSD storage.
0:02:44And I also got a 10 gigabit ethernet
0:02:48an nBaseT Ethernet with support for 1GB, 2.5GB, 5GB, and 10GB Ethernet using the RJ-45 connector.
0:02:55Oh good. You don't want the RJ-44, that's last year's.
0:03:02I like the requirement to list 1GB, 2.5GB, 5GB, and 10GB. I like that that needs to...
0:03:08Is there any others?
0:03:10You didn't get 7, 7 gigabyte.
0:03:12What if I only need 7?
0:03:14Also it's gigabit, but that's fine.
0:03:16Leave me alone. What if I need a seven now? Why wouldn't they give why do I get one and two point five but not seven?
0:03:22Yeah, it's complicated. It's ridiculous
0:03:24And I also got an accessory kit, which I don't know what that means like a hat. What is that?
0:03:29I don't know
0:03:32It just says like accessory kit. I don't know what that is. Like what accessories does the Mac Mini come with you know, Federico
0:03:39You joke but in my 20th anniversary Mac, I bought a couple years ago
0:03:43it came with all that stuff and you got both a pen and a pencil in this little like leather sleeve and you got a
0:03:48remote and
0:03:50With the Mac mini it just means you get paperwork in a power cable. So congrats to the power cable Myke
0:03:55Why do they call it an accessory? Yes, I'm happy together like I mean, it's not like we just call it stuff
0:04:02No, but like they don't I don't think that they need to tell me I'm gonna get a power cable
0:04:06Like I I don't know modern Apple
0:04:10You want to be clear on that stuff. 30 pin. Yeah, so I got one of those
0:04:14I started a note in Apple Notes today with like called Mac mini server
0:04:18And I've written down a couple of things that I might want to try like why am I getting this right? Okay, so okay
0:04:24Storage. Such as? Storage. Yes. Like it's all question marks right now like do I want to store project files on it?
0:04:30I don't know. And then I got like Plex and then the next bullet is how do I set that up?
0:04:35up so that's a question mark and there's Casey Liss there he is he somehow has found out and I'm
0:04:41sure at this very moment has sent me a message I put in just a link to last week's episode
0:04:46of this show so I'll listen to all of that again and all of the insane things that Federico was
0:04:53doing with Apple scripts homebridge which is part of it right like so I can I don't know I don't
0:04:58even know what I would do with that you can bridge your home yep yeah sponsor but lunar display I've
0:05:04I got a USB-C lunar display that I'm going to use.
0:05:06And then I started writing down, like, what are some actual tasks that I could
0:05:11use? So like, for example, I was going to I was I did an episode of subnet a
0:05:15couple of weeks ago. I stood in for you and I was thinking, oh, I know what
0:05:19I'll do. I'll edit this on my iPad.
0:05:21Right. I'll record and edit this on my iPad because this is this is the thing
0:05:25that the kids do today.
0:05:26But then I was like, I do some preprocessing of audio files in Adobe
0:05:30audition and I don't know how to get those results in anything else so I
0:05:36would have had to have pre-processed them on my Mac and then by the time that
0:05:41I did that I just decided to do it all on my Mac but with a Mac Mini and
0:05:45something like the Luna display I could just do all of that stuff on the Mac
0:05:49right like I could record it on iOS put it in Dropbox process it in an audition
0:05:53and then just edit it on my iPad. So you're gonna run this Mac Mini
0:05:58headless? Yes, I am. Okay, I have a, I'm going to send you a link to this. I'm
0:06:04googling now. You want a, basically a headless HDMI adapter or the Mac mini
0:06:12will, or Mac OS will basically keep the resolution super low, which is really
0:06:19dumb. And so you want this thing, it's $8 on Amazon Prime. I'm putting it in the
0:06:24chat room so you can see it and put it in the show notes. This comes via our
0:06:28friends at Mac Stadium so they recommend this. It basically tricks your Mac into
0:06:34running at 1080 which make it a little bit easier on the Luna display as well.
0:06:37You should buy this and just plug it into the HDMI port. It seems weird. But
0:06:41you know it is it is what it is. But if you're going to use remote desktop
0:06:45access this is a handy thing to have. Okay let me see if we have it on in the UK
0:06:49Amazon. Yep, always a lot more expensive but what you gonna do? Yeah, what can you do?
0:06:57Can't do anything about that. It's 20 pounds. So there's that. Yeah. So that's
0:07:05that's your Mac Mini. Please let us know when it gets in. We're very excited for
0:07:08you. Like a special report. We'll do an episode immediately. Yeah, we'll just
0:07:17do an immediate bonus episode as you unbox it.
0:07:20Myke, while we're talking to you about hardware, I know you have spent some time with the iPhone
0:07:26XR.
0:07:27How is that going?
0:07:28Yeah, it's good.
0:07:29I would say I haven't been spending an extended time with it.
0:07:33Like I spent a bunch of time with it when I got it and I play around with it every now
0:07:36and then.
0:07:37And I think, you know, the XR, I mean, this isn't new to anybody really, but I think that
0:07:41it is a very, very solid phone.
0:07:44I don't know how actually popular this thing is.
0:07:51There are a lot of people that I think right now are trying to say that it's not popular.
0:07:56I think Apple is trying to say that it's their best selling, right?
0:07:59Like it seems like there's a lot of stuff going on about this thing right now.
0:08:03Aren't they giving like, they're doing some kind of crazy like $300 off promotion if you
0:08:08bring in an old phone, right?
0:08:10If you bring in like a 7 or 7 Plus I think.
0:08:12Yeah, I mean doesn't that seem weird?
0:08:14Yeah, it does. I think there's something to the story about the XR. There's something going on.
0:08:19You know, next time they announce their sales, you know, unit sales, then we'll know.
0:08:24Oh.
0:08:25Yeah.
0:08:26They don't do that anymore, do they?
0:08:27But like it's right there on the homepage, like at the very top. Limited time iPhone XR from $449.
0:08:35But anyway, whatever the reason is, I think the XR is a great phone. I love the color of it, right?
0:08:41of it, right? Like I got the coral one and I love it. And in my usage of it, everything
0:08:46that you think would be a downside, it turns out is mostly fine, right? Like the screen
0:08:52is incredible. The bezels you, once you've used it from one in an hour, like in my opinion,
0:08:57like I don't notice that the bezels are thicker. I definitely noticed that it is, the phone
0:09:03overall is thicker. Like I can feel that, especially if you put a case on it, right?
0:09:09that makes it much bigger. But I think it is great and the dual purpose of buying this
0:09:16one was so I could kind of just get to understand it. The second is it's going to my mum for
0:09:20Christmas so she's going to be getting my coral iPhone XR this Christmas with the clear
0:09:26case that finally Apple has given me the point that I wanted and they have delivered to the
0:09:32world the clear case.
0:09:34Are you buying one?
0:09:36I will buy one, yeah.
0:09:38Okay.
0:09:39I think because I stand by the fact that like if you're going to buy a phone that's in a
0:09:44color like like a big bright color like this you want to show it off again I still say
0:09:48I wish they made a clear case for the tennis because I have a gold phone I love the color
0:09:54of but I'm too scared to I'm too much of a chicken to not to not have a case on it so
0:10:01nothing bad has ever happened to from yeah carrying a phone without a case that true
0:10:07Someone asked me about my last two phones.
0:10:09Yeah, how is this one doing?
0:10:10Have you dropped it?
0:10:11Have you broken it?
0:10:12I've not dropped it.
0:10:13It definitely has some scratches on the screen.
0:10:15I think from the little brass nubbin on my jeans, just like my iPhone 10 had, but it's
0:10:20fine otherwise.
0:10:21I'll tell you, like a couple of days ago, my phone took a fall that would have destroyed
0:10:26it if I didn't have a case on it.
0:10:27Like screened down onto marble floor.
0:10:30Right?
0:10:31From my standing height.
0:10:32That would have killed us by anything.
0:10:33Like that would have destroyed it.
0:10:34And if I wouldn't have had that case on it,
0:10:36that phone would be dead now.
0:10:38- The Apple case looks exactly
0:10:40how you would expect it to look, right?
0:10:41It's clear plastic.
0:10:42There's a funny thing on the,
0:10:43at least right now on Apple's store online,
0:10:46that they have the product imagery.
0:10:48There's two product red phones.
0:10:49Like they just, I don't know what happened there.
0:10:52Some sort of data entry issue.
0:10:53It seems like if you want a clear plastic case,
0:10:56there are much cheaper options.
0:10:57This thing is 40 bucks.
0:10:59But if you want a, I guess a first party case,
0:11:01this is now out there for you.
0:11:04It's really weird, I was looking at the homepage
0:11:06that Myke said, there's actually a whole section
0:11:09that says limited time, iPhone XR.
0:11:12I've never seen Apple do this kind of--
0:11:14- You see, it's so strange to see, isn't it?
0:11:16- It's very weird, it looks like any e-commerce website
0:11:21on the internet, it's not Apple at all, limited time.
0:11:28It's like an offer, Apple doesn't do offers.
0:11:29- Yeah, and there's an asterisk by the number,
0:11:32and I know I know why it's there, right?
0:11:34But it's still kind of it all just seems really strange.
0:11:36And it might be nothing, right?
0:11:38Like it might just be whatever they're just doing it.
0:11:41It's like a holiday promotion.
0:11:43But it's it's still like just a strange thing.
0:11:45But I will tell you, right?
0:11:47Like if you have like an iPhone seven or something
0:11:51or maybe an iPhone, maybe even an iPhone eight,
0:11:54getting one of these for four hundred and fifty dollars.
0:11:57That is a great deal.
0:11:58Like that is a very, very good deal.
0:12:01So, but it's still strange to see Apple do a very, very good deal.
0:12:06Right? Like it's just like a weird thing to say, especially when you look at like their unforgettable holiday event, which was just like a back storeroom clean out.
0:12:15Did you saw that right? Like their Thanksgiving stuff.
0:12:17It was like a bunch of old phones and iPads and old Macs.
0:12:20It was like really weird.
0:12:22Like there was like, oh, why don't you buy the 10.5 inch iPad or why don't you buy this iPhone 7?
0:12:28Like here's our incredible holiday event.
0:12:29Like it was not a great holiday event.
0:12:32So it just seems strange for them to then do something like this,
0:12:36but probably to the benefit of many people. Right.
0:12:39Like I can imagine there being more iPhone 10 hours under the Christmas tree
0:12:43this way.
0:12:44You know, I wasn't supposed to say anything,
0:12:47but I guess it's past now, so I can for that that Black Friday
0:12:51Thanksgiving thing when they had a bunch of older devices for sale, they actually
0:12:55they actually came to me.
0:12:57And then we need some iBooks.
0:12:59We need some iBooks.
0:13:02And if you have like a 3GS or two, that'd be great.
0:13:06I did not have a white iPhone 4, but no one did, so it's okay.
0:13:11So I feel I can now say that I'm proud to have been part of Apple's Black Friday specials.
0:13:16It's a shame I didn't see those.
0:13:17Those must have gone really quickly.
0:13:19They did.
0:13:20They even have it like on the main iPhone page, like apple.com/iphone.
0:13:24Get up to $500 for your iPhone.
0:13:26in your iPhone and get credit towards a new one. And get extra credit for select iPhone
0:13:31models. That's what they're doing right now. So it's even more than the regular give back.
0:13:35They're boosting it to... Hmm. It's strange. Too strange. Do you know what's not strange?
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0:15:54So MKBHD broke the internet a couple of days ago with the video called the blind smartphone camera test.
0:16:03So did you guys see this? He was putting up voting on Instagram and Twitter.
0:16:06Did you both participate?
0:16:08Yep.
0:16:09Only some of them, I didn't keep up with the entire thing.
0:16:14So I was as well.
0:16:15So he was basically, he took like 16 phones and took pictures of all of them and then
0:16:21basically allowed people to vote on Twitter and on Instagram for which photo looked the
0:16:25best and then made a video about his findings and it is absolutely nothing that you would
0:16:34ever expect it to be.
0:16:35It's wild.
0:16:36The winner ended up being the Huawei Mate 20.
0:16:40No, the yeah, the Mate 20 Pro.
0:16:45Mate 20 Pro, that's it.
0:16:46Having beat out the Xiaomi Pocophone, that was the final.
0:16:50It was the iPhone XS, the iPhone X and the Pixel 3 all got beat in their first round.
0:16:56The iPhone XS got beat by a BlackBerry.
0:16:59Like it was bonkers.
0:17:01it was really, really surprising and I think it led to some really interesting kind of
0:17:07conclusions about the way that people consume images on their phones because effectively,
0:17:16as Marques says in his video, which you should watch, it's really nicely done,
0:17:24effectively what one was which image was the brightest which had the most contrast.
0:17:30But like that that was all the winning factor really was because of compression on images
0:17:37and also just because you don't really and I saw this all like people saying that you
0:17:41don't know what the subject actually looked like. So if it's just brighter then great
0:17:46you can that's just going to be the image that most people tend to gravitate towards.
0:17:50Yeah, and even though people usually cannot separate like what is exposure, what is contrast,
0:17:58they know what they like. They have like, we as humans, we like our pictures to be in
0:18:04a certain way because they're just nicer to look at. And I think this was a fun project
0:18:10and really fascinating to see the results because it really there's the takeaway here
0:18:15is that when it comes to posting on social media, there are different factors at play
0:18:24on what makes a good picture, because there's of course compression involved, there's some
0:18:30image artifacts, but really, when you're sharing with tons of people, a sharable photo, a nice
0:18:42shareable photo does not necessarily mean that it's a high fidelity photo that respects
0:18:49all of the photographic rules, if that makes sense. Like, nice pictures for Instagram and
0:18:57Twitter are not necessarily perfect, but people can still like them better than a super accurate
0:19:04photo taken on a XS, if that makes sense.
0:19:07Yeah, and it I think it's interesting
0:19:11I think it's funny when you see something like this because it's like this wasn't what he was attempting to do
0:19:16Like when he started this project, you know, it was like, oh great
0:19:20Let's see whether people like the pixel or the iPhone 10 most right in a blind test
0:19:25But what it ended up being was these two phones that are mostly disregarded that were battling it out for the win
0:19:31Like it's such an interesting result
0:19:33but as you say like it
0:19:36It shows a little bit about what people gravitate towards
0:19:39It's just really interesting. I just find the whole thing really interesting. Like I don't I don't really I don't have my own personal like
0:19:46mind-blowing takeaway from it
0:19:48But I think it it just says it says something and I'm not 100% sure what that is, right?
0:19:54Like what would it be like if I was looking at those phone of those images in full resolution?
0:19:59Would I change my mind? Honestly, I don't know if I would.
0:20:03What I think is interesting is that if you recall what happened with
0:20:07beautygate and the iPhone XS
0:20:10there's a fascinating difference when
0:20:14changes to a photo are to the camera are forced upon you by the manufacturer
0:20:21versus a photo that is not accurate, but you took it
0:20:27Like you made the decision to took that photo because if you look at those photos that that MKBHD posted
0:20:34Some of them are not accurate pictures
0:20:38They you know, they're either overexposed or they're lacking details in the background
0:20:44But it's not a bug like he took those photos so
0:20:51Normally what I'm trying to say is that people apply things like beauty filters or even if you look at you know
0:20:57I follow a bunch of like photographers like professional photographers on Instagram and they all
0:21:02Process their photos in VSCO right like and add these like wild color filters and stuff to them to make them look more visually impressive
0:21:10So I think it's interesting that people are okay with these kinds of filters like beauty filters or smoothing filters
0:21:17when they decide to use them.
0:21:20But if they're on by default, they get upset.
0:21:23And it's a beauty gate.
0:21:24I think it's fascinating, like a human behavior.
0:21:26It's very, very fascinating.
0:21:27- Yeah, like there's a reason that there are a million
0:21:30of these smoothing filters in Instagram and in Snapchat,
0:21:34right, like in the face stuff,
0:21:36because people wanna use them all the time.
0:21:38But if the camera's doing it for them,
0:21:40whether intended or not, now it's like, how dare you?
0:21:46Yeah, super interesting.
0:21:47And I guess we should all be using the Huawei Mate 20 Pro now.
0:21:54Oh yeah, I switched already.
0:21:57Didn't I tell you guys?
0:21:58Mac stories is no more.
0:22:00Huawei stories.
0:22:01No, no, Mate stories.
0:22:03Mate stories, okay.
0:22:04Yes, that's what I'm going for.
0:22:07I love it.
0:22:09Also I've fired all of my employees and I'm just hiring British people because of the
0:22:15it fits better. Oh interesting. That wasn't... oh my god I just got an ad for the Huawei
0:22:20Mate 20 Pro on MacRumors. I just opened up the next link and I have an ad right there.
0:22:28It says welcome to higher intelligence. Chrome is listening to you. Oh man I need to unplug
0:22:34all of my devices now. See you later guys. This is it for me. Time to change your house.
0:22:39This is really interesting because we live in a world where like most photos are shot
0:22:44and then shared on a smartphone and then never escape past that.
0:22:48Right? I would imagine that if he had done a video where he also voted on like prints of some sort,
0:22:55that the, you know, the more traditional smartphones like the iPhone and the Pixel
0:23:00would do better there. Or even if it was like he showed those images in a video as opposed to like
0:23:06on Twitter. Non-compressed. Yeah. Non-compressed. But I mean, think about the pictures like the
0:23:10three of us take. Where do we share them? Like Instagram or Twitter, right? Like, they're going
0:23:15to get compressed to kingdom come, and in that world, what his findings ended up being make a
0:23:23lot of sense. It's surprising initially, but he did a really good job explaining it, and I totally
0:23:27see why it ended up being the way that it was. In fact, as he was going through the examples talking
0:23:31about them, as he was talking about them, I was voting against the phone in my own pocket. I was
0:23:35voting against the Pixel. It's like, yeah, this does look better in this context.
0:23:39Like I remember like the images that I voted for
0:23:43They were all brighter
0:23:45They were all had more colors in because that tends to be what I like most humans like and it's just a funny thing
0:23:52I don't know if I said this on the show before but I I sort of have a confession to make I
0:23:57Don't always like how
0:24:01pictures from the iPhone XS look
0:24:04Same. Oh, really?
0:24:06I think older iPhones used to be punchier, used to produce...
0:24:12I don't know, everything just looks a bit flat to me with the XS, unless I have really, really good lighting or
0:24:19I'm at the park and it's super sunny.
0:24:22Like, I prefer most of the pictures that I took on the iPhone X or the iPhone 7 even.
0:24:33they were more contrasty, more, you know, they had more punch than
0:24:38what I normally shot on the, shoot on the iPhone XS.
0:24:43And I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I tried with
0:24:46Smart HDR enabled and disabled.
0:24:49It just, there's something that the software is doing, and I think Nilay Patel was also
0:24:55complaining about this a few months ago. And I'm starting to see it now, because whenever I look at pictures from the Pixel 3,
0:25:02for example, I'm like, yeah, that picture has contrast, has really good lighting,
0:25:06as you know, it packs a punch.
0:25:07It's got something.
0:25:09It's got that kick right in the image that those colors and that contrast
0:25:13and the iPhone XS, it always looks I mean, it can take beautiful pictures,
0:25:17but it happens less frequently than it used to happen before.
0:25:21And I'm not trying to say that I'm going to switch to the Google Pixel
0:25:25and stuff like that, but
0:25:28it just whatever Apple did with the software,
0:25:32I don't think I'm a hundred percent happy with it because it's it's in trying to to
0:25:38Cast detail on every single point of the photo and this is especially true with smart HDR
0:25:45It makes everything a bit too flat and a bit too soft and a bit too
0:25:49Plasticy if that makes sense, it makes a ton of sense. I agree with you
0:25:54In fact, I have turned off smart HDR on my tennis max
0:25:57I don't like the way especially the outdoor photos look hmm. I should try again with HDR off. Yeah, yeah
0:26:04I've got it off and it still
0:26:06does stuff right, but it's it's dialed back some and
0:26:10It it looks more like the older iPhones
0:26:13But even now with the setting off some of those outdoor photos like look to
0:26:18HD re from I think that I think that's what you're seeing and what you don't like as well
0:26:23It's like okay like the sky should not be blue in this picture and like if you like that. That's fine
0:26:28I don't like it. I want it to be
0:26:30More accurate and so I've I feel the same way you do absolutely yeah, it's very random
0:26:35There's not like a like a like a thing that I can say it always does this
0:26:40But every once in a while and actually every few days. I take a picture like it's
0:26:46Flat it's like the colors are muted
0:26:49and it doesn't have that kind of contrast that I remember when I took the picture.
0:26:55That said, I can take some beautiful pictures with the XS, especially when I'm in direct sunlight and I'm at the park.
0:27:02There's tons of vivid colors.
0:27:04And in that situation, it takes some great shots.
0:27:10But it's something that I noticed, and especially when looking at the reviews for the Pixel 3 and looking at image comparisons.
0:27:16Like, when The Verge did the photo comparisons between the XS and the Pixel 3,
0:27:22I tend to prefer every single photo of the Pixel 3 version.
0:27:28It just looks better to me.
0:27:30Alright, so, a bunch of stuff here.
0:27:33So, I would say that I prefer the Google Pixel 95% of the time.
0:27:42At some point we will talk about my Pixel 3. At some point we will get to it.
0:27:50Not today. Not today. At some point we need to get to it.
0:27:53And I even have a comparison album that I put together. We will get to this at some point.
0:27:57But I will say that I disagree with both of you personally about the iPhone's camera.
0:28:07I would say that I have not noticed like how you two describe like the flat nature of images.
0:28:13Like I just I have not seen that and like I'm looking at images that I've taken over the last
0:28:18week and I don't really look at any of them and be like oh that doesn't look right. But the thing is
0:28:24with smart HDR I have I take more images now where I go oh wow I love that. So for whatever reason
0:28:32my tastes, right, align with what Smart HDR is doing.
0:28:37Like I like the big, bold, blue skies and all that.
0:28:43You know, like I like all of that stuff.
0:28:45It looks pleasing to me.
0:28:47So, you know, I'm not in any way saying
0:28:51that I think like you're wrong,
0:28:53but because it's all the personal tasting,
0:28:57but I would just say that for me personally,
0:28:59I much prefer the smart HDR stuff, but always prefer the Pixel 3, pretty much, as to what
0:29:07it can do.
0:29:11My guess is Federica and I are in the minority, actually.
0:29:13I don't know.
0:29:15It's difficult to tell, right?
0:29:16Like how would we even know that?
0:29:21But I think that this is only a thing that you can know after a while, and I think that
0:29:28I remain really happy with the new camera stuff.
0:29:32I'm also using portrait mode more and more.
0:29:35Oh, yeah, that I am as well. Yeah.
0:29:37It's getting so much better,
0:29:39especially for like images shared on Instagram, for example.
0:29:43Like if I am ever taking I don't take a lot of selfies, right?
0:29:46But like if I ever do now, I always take at least one portrait mode image as well.
0:29:53Because again, it's like if you're sharing it on Instagram or whatever,
0:29:58like it ends up looking pretty good for Instagram, you know?
0:30:01Mm hmm. So but the pixel still better at that as well.
0:30:06All right. We'll talk about it, Myke.
0:30:07Don't worry. I will not forget.
0:30:10Because I want to.
0:30:10We just we just haven't we just haven't gotten to it, but we will.
0:30:14We will. We have some breaking news. Oh, dear.
0:30:17Can someone do a breaking news sound effect?
0:30:19Is that the sound of breaking news?
0:30:22That's a terrible sound.
0:30:24Yes. OK.
0:30:26That sounds like news is broken.
0:30:28Breaking news.
0:30:28Okay.
0:30:29Yeah, there you go.
0:30:29They send that when it happens.
0:30:31IOS landmark release or release.
0:30:34It would tell our children about iOS 12.1.1 is out.
0:30:39It does some things including notification preview now uses
0:30:44haptic touch on the iPhone.
0:30:4510 are they still even adding haptics to things as they go better dual SIM and
0:30:51eSIM support, live photo capture during one-to-one FaceTime calls, and perhaps the biggest thing,
0:31:00you can now flip between the rear and front-facing camera during a FaceTime call with one tap
0:31:05like you used to be able to do, and they put it behind a menu, which was super dumb, and
0:31:10now they have fixed that.
0:31:11A couple of days ago, I had to listen to a friend explain to a family member how to do
0:31:15it, and it said, "You will hang up the call, but that's okay."
0:31:18And it was like, yes, you will hang up the call.
0:31:22Because when you go into that menu, you have to get rid of the menu.
0:31:25And the only way to get rid of the menu that seems logical is the big red X button.
0:31:29But no, that hangs up the call.
0:31:31So I'm very pleased that they have added this feature because I'm sure that it has been
0:31:36driving people berserk, right?
0:31:40Because I would assume that probably the biggest use of FaceTime is calls between family members
0:31:45of varying ages and locations.
0:31:48And any change to the UI in an application like that is going to ruin everything for
0:31:52everyone.
0:31:53Right?
0:31:54Like, if you make a big change, like, "Oh, now this button that you use is hidden,"
0:31:57everyone's going to get that wrong.
0:31:58No one's going to know what they're doing, right?
0:32:00So I'm pleased that they put this back in again, because it was much needed.
0:32:04Yeah, I don't know why they changed it.
0:32:08So that's all good news.
0:32:10I have been burned by this on a FaceTime call with my family.
0:32:15Exactly what you said happened.
0:32:17One of my kids tried swapping around, they just hung up on me.
0:32:19I also have, sorry guys, some breaking news.
0:32:23Woah!
0:32:24Shortcuts 2.1.2 is out on the app store.
0:32:32There's a whole list of bug fixes here.
0:32:35Some of which, some of which may have been, you know, some of those bugs were caused by
0:32:40yours truly, but I will not go into detail here.
0:32:45I'm not saying that I somehow broke shortcuts, but, you know, it's a story for another time.
0:32:50It has been prophesized that one may.
0:32:53It has been brought to my attention that some of my shortcuts were causing issues.
0:33:00Performance improvements all around the app.
0:33:03So the widget will no longer crash if you have one of my base 64 shortcuts in the widget.
0:33:13iCloud sync improvements, let's see, I'm looking at release notes.
0:33:17I have a complaint, I have a complaint about the release notes.
0:33:21In the app store, I'm just going to read what the app store says, bullet point, bug fixes
0:33:25and improvements, no period, return, learn more and see the full list of changes at blah
0:33:31blah blah, support to apple.com/ht209087.
0:33:35Apple, that is not a link, I cannot click this and open a browser.
0:33:40That's true.
0:33:41Put the notes in the app store.
0:33:43are you doing Shortcuts team? Be better than this.
0:33:45Listen to the old man, he's got a point.
0:33:49My feeling is either have it be a clickable link, put them in there, or don't do it.
0:33:57We will put the link in the show notes because we're better than the Shortcuts team at explaining
0:34:01things.
0:34:02I think it's ironic that the first new feature at the top of the release notes is added a
0:34:09new post to Tumblr action.
0:34:10Has to be clean, clean content everyone, clean content.
0:34:14Tumblr is dying now, right?
0:34:16Like this is going to kill Tumblr, the fact that there will be no more bots on Tumblr,
0:34:19right?
0:34:20Like that's the end of it, right?
0:34:23It's got to be, right?
0:34:24Like I feel like it can't be good for Tumblr.
0:34:27I don't follow adult content creators on Tumblr, but I am familiar with the idea that
0:34:36content is popular on Tumblr and most people use it for that.
0:34:40So yes, I'm pretty sure that.
0:34:42Tumblr is owned by Oa?
0:34:45What's his name?
0:34:46No.
0:34:47Isn't it Alibaba?
0:34:48Who owns Yahoo now?
0:34:50No.
0:34:51Oa is Verizon, right?
0:34:53Who owns Tumblr?
0:34:54But doesn't Yahoo own Tumblr?
0:34:57No.
0:35:00Let's look at Wikipedia.
0:35:01It's complicated, Myke.
0:35:03Anyway.
0:35:04Relationship status.
0:35:05It's complicated.
0:35:07bug fixes while Steven looks it up. Let's see, for example...
0:35:12Yeah, it's owned by Oath. Yeah, Oath.
0:35:14And Oath is Verizon.
0:35:16With is part of Verizon. It serves as the umbrella company to its digital content subdivisions
0:35:22including AOL, Yahoo, with an exclamation point, Verizon's other businesses.
0:35:27Oh, okay. So as Zach says in the chat room, Verizon owns Oath, Oath owns Yahoo, Yahoo
0:35:33owns tumblr right yes it's like how it goes through the little chain of command there this is a
0:35:38corporate corporate russian doll it's what it is a matryoshka matryoshka matryoshka
0:35:47that's the russian nesting dolls uh uh steven what's um what's next on our list here uh so 12.1.1
0:36:00Yep, that's out. Sortcrest is out.
0:36:02Dual sim support, I will test. I actually, well not dual sim, like eSIM, not a physical sim,
0:36:11physical dual sim. If you want to get that phone you got to go to Hong Kong and I don't want to go
0:36:16to Hong Kong to buy. It's not worth it really.
0:36:17It's not really worth it I think. But I will try again a test that I did a few weeks ago and we
0:36:24We wanted to talk about it, but then we delayed the topic a bunch of times.
0:36:28eSIM support on iOS 12.
0:36:32I want to try at least two apps.
0:36:34I only tried TruePhone the first time.
0:36:37And I think the other company, what's the name, Geeksky, maybe,
0:36:40they have an app update now that allows you to buy eSIM plans.
0:36:43So I will try it again with 12.1.1, which is already --
0:36:48I think I installed the beta on my phone last week to fix my iCloud issues.
0:36:53That didn't work, but I will update to the public release
0:36:58and try the ECM again and I will report back.
0:37:02- As follow up to last week,
0:37:04are your iCloud issues resolved yet?
0:37:05- No. - Oh, whoa.
0:37:08- They are not. - Really?
0:37:09- Yeah, for example, right now reminders on my phone
0:37:13says that one reminder is due today
0:37:16and reminders on the Mac says
0:37:18that three reminders are due today.
0:37:19Nobody replied to my radar.
0:37:23And, you know, I don't know what's going on.
0:37:25I have a feeling that it's something on my Wi-Fi network at this point,
0:37:32because if Apple can figure it out and I did multiple resets
0:37:39and installing a new version of iOS,
0:37:42logging in and out of iCloud,
0:37:46I noticed something yesterday that reminders were not updating on my phone.
0:37:51but when I turned off the Wi-Fi, they did.
0:37:55And I have a feeling that somewhere in my local network,
0:38:02either my setup or my ISP, are doing something
0:38:07to iCloud sync.
0:38:11This is just a hunch.
0:38:13I'm not convinced, because I only noticed this behavior once.
0:38:17But I need to look into it.
0:38:18And I know that Apple has a support page where
0:38:21they suggest which ports on your router that you need to open for, basically that Apple software uses.
0:38:29So I will check that out and I will see what I have to do, but it's kind of weird because
0:38:35I've never had these kinds of issues before and I haven't changed ISP or my setup in years.
0:38:43So if it's a network problem, that's a new thing because it never, never happened before.
0:38:50Now that would be really weird.
0:38:53Yeah, I know. And it's super weird that at this point everything else works. Like messages, they sync fine. Photos, they sync fine.
0:39:02Backups are working. Everything else iCloud related is working. My, what's it called, the text replacements, they are back and fully functioning.
0:39:13Like, everything else is fine. Just Reminders, which is the app that I use the most, is not
0:39:19working. It's not syncing my Reminders across devices. I don't know what else I need to
0:39:25do. Again, I don't want to switch task managers again, so...
0:39:31I would say, man, I know, I understand that, like, Reminders is, like, is working for you
0:39:36and that kind of stuff, but, like, after a situation like this, I wouldn't stick with
0:39:42it. I wouldn't. I would have to move, right? Like for me, with the way that I use my to-do system,
0:39:48if I am not confident that everything I put into it is being recorded properly, then it is useless.
0:39:57Same.
0:39:58Like, and this is not a criticism on you, like, because we all, everybody works differently, but
0:40:03I just say like, I am surprised if you want to stick with it if this doesn't get resolved
0:40:11any quicker than it currently is.
0:40:13The thing, the weird thing is that...
0:40:16I don't know how to best explain this.
0:40:19So right now my reminders are not synchronized
0:40:22between my iPhone and my Mac.
0:40:24But at some point...
0:40:26today, they will be.
0:40:29Oh my god.
0:40:31Oh my god.
0:40:32At some point, I will make a change either on my iPad
0:40:36or my phone again.
0:40:38And it will trigger sync.
0:40:40So last week I told Steven like I'm completing the same reminders
0:40:45twice or I'm moving them twice.
0:40:47Now I just need to wait a bit longer because at some point
0:40:51that is out of my control, they will be synchronized.
0:40:54So it does sink.
0:40:56But eventually very, very slowly.
0:41:00But not yet. Right.
0:41:02Yes. The rest of us, our iCloud accounts are on servers.
0:41:06Federico's is like a status board and there's some interns at Apple.
0:41:10And it's like, oh, he marked off this list.
0:41:11And you have to run over there and check it off over here.
0:41:14There's a human being in the middle of your iCloud account.
0:41:16There's like a Trello board somewhere
0:41:18that is just all of your reminders.
0:41:20And then moving them around for you.
0:41:23It's slow because they went to lunch.
0:41:25Like, oh, no, he did stuff.
0:41:26We were gone.
0:41:26Last week after the show, I realized, well,
0:41:30maybe the problem is that I have too many completed
0:41:33reminders in my completed list.
0:41:36And I looked, and there were like 950 reminders.
0:41:39I was like, "Okay, so maybe that's too many."
0:41:42So I tried, I put together a shortcut on iOS
0:41:46to delete the computer reminders,
0:41:47and it failed after deleting about 400.
0:41:51So I needed to go to my Mac
0:41:53and steal an Apple script from Dr. Drang
0:41:56to delete the remaining 540-something reminders,
0:42:01but that also didn't fix the problem.
0:42:03So now I don't have my computer reminders anymore,
0:42:06and the problem is still there.
0:42:08And it's super weird because eventually it works.
0:42:10And like right now, if I add a new reminder on my phone,
0:42:14it will show up on my Mac instantly.
0:42:16But some of the reminders that I complete
0:42:19or that I reschedule to another date,
0:42:21they will not sync for a few hours.
0:42:24It's like, no man, we don't want to sync.
0:42:26Just, you know, just chill.
0:42:28- I can't fathom how it is like selectively syncing.
0:42:33It doesn't make sense to me.
0:42:36- I have no idea.
0:42:37I have no idea.
0:42:38What is going on?
0:42:39It's like, oh yeah, didn't you know?
0:42:41Like we keep it on two different servers.
0:42:43All of the entered tasks go over here
0:42:46and all of the completed tasks go over here.
0:42:49- And I double checked, right?
0:42:50I was like, maybe at some point in the past
0:42:53I was testing some weird automation
0:42:56and I created a reminder that has like a base64 string
0:43:01as an attachment.
0:43:03But no, I didn't do that.
0:43:05Of all the things I've "based-64ed" in the past few months, reminders are now one of them!
0:43:11And all my reminders are pretty basic, like "Text Myke" or "Respond to John", stuff like that.
0:43:18I don't have these complex structures of projects, right?
0:43:22I got like ten lists, and that's it, and two of them are shared with Silvia.
0:43:26Like, it's a very basic setup.
0:43:30So basic it doesn't even sync.
0:43:33That's how basic it is.
0:43:35Yeah.
0:43:35Boy. Boy oh boy.
0:43:37Well, I really hope that this gets fixed for you, because I would be losing my mind.
0:43:41I know you've had some real dark days during all of this, and I would be just losing it.
0:43:47I feel like I'm in a better place now.
0:43:49I've accepted my fate of reminders are not gonna work well right now.
0:43:53I wanna remain optimistic that somebody at Apple is listening to this program,
0:43:58and they will fix my problems.
0:44:01But, um, you know what concerns me?
0:44:04It hasn't been fixed yet.
0:44:07That that that's how it's concerned because, and
0:44:11all right, so we need to get back to you.
0:44:13Yeah, we need to just like, we have to lift the cart in a minute.
0:44:17History has shown that if any of us have these big issues
0:44:23and talk about it enough, like tweet about it, you talk about on a show or two,
0:44:28Usually someone gets in contact with you and they're like, "All right,
0:44:33let's see if we can fix this for you." And there is definite benefit to this,
0:44:37right? Because we are power users,
0:44:39we use things maybe more than the average person.
0:44:41And if someone can work out how to fix this,
0:44:44it might be a bug that they can fix for everyone. You know, that kind of thing.
0:44:47There is definite benefit to it. Um, but it's also one of the perks of,
0:44:51of having a popular podcast, right?
0:44:55no one's done anything yet, right? Like, you're still having this problem. That is concerning
0:45:02to me. Yeah. And also I think I mentioned last week, just as an extended follow-up,
0:45:10that I was having trouble installing updates from the App Store and buying in-app purchases.
0:45:23That issue is fixed, but I needed to get in touch separately with iTunes Store support,
0:45:30because apparently my account, my Apple ID, was getting locked for security reasons for
0:45:38just during normal usage.
0:45:40This is something that the iTunes Store Senior Advisor I was put in touch with said, that
0:45:47It may happen that during normal usage your account goes through a security screening
0:45:52and gets locked, and so you can no longer update certain apps or buy in-app purchases.
0:45:58Again, super weird.
0:46:00I could buy paid upfront apps.
0:46:03I could not buy in-app purchases.
0:46:06Or install some updates.
0:46:10Got in touch with iTunes support.
0:46:12They fixed it.
0:46:14The issue happened again two days later.
0:46:16in touch again, they fixed it and now we're at today. So the lady was very nice, she said
0:46:27they did something to my account to make sure that it doesn't happen again but that it may
0:46:30also happen again so that's kind of confusing. But yeah, it's not been a good couple of weeks
0:46:36in terms of teaching Apple software, I gotta tell you. Bunch of weird problems. It's weird
0:46:43To me, because...
0:46:45Why...
0:46:47Like, what's go- Something bad's going on for you.
0:46:50Like, I can't...
0:46:52I can't assume that those two things are not related in some way.
0:46:57They've gotta be.
0:46:58I don't know, it looks like they're not.
0:47:00It looks like they are two separate problems.
0:47:03Can I ask one quick question?
0:47:05Yeah.
0:47:06Do you have your time set automatically?
0:47:08Yeah.
0:47:10Okay.
0:47:12Yeah, no, I don't do those things with the date and stuff like that.
0:47:17Maybe it's, I mean I know you don't use auto brightness, maybe that's the problem.
0:47:21I do actually.
0:47:22Do you use it now?
0:47:23Oh yeah.
0:47:24Oh that's good news.
0:47:25I've been using it for like a year.
0:47:27I get tired of managing, like adjusting brightness.
0:47:29The micromanaging of screen brightness is just not something I want in my life, you
0:47:33know?
0:47:34Yeah, yeah, I stopped doing that.
0:47:36Good.
0:47:37I'm like misremembering, but didn't you move to a new iCloud account like four years ago?
0:47:42Like, I feel like we've talked about this before and you like set up a new iCloud account
0:47:46and just moved everything.
0:47:47That's a long time ago.
0:47:49Maybe it's time to do that again.
0:47:50I have literally zero memory of this.
0:47:52I have no memory of this.
0:47:54This feels like it's new information to me completely.
0:47:56So I'm one of those people that has two separate accounts on an iOS device.
0:48:01So I have my iCloud account that I use for everything except the iTunes.
0:48:07iTunes and App Store, yeah.
0:48:08- Yeah, Adina has this too, and it's because of like,
0:48:11she set up a Romanian account originally, right?
0:48:14And that's where all her purchases were,
0:48:17because you couldn't use a Romanian card
0:48:19on a British account, that kind of thing.
0:48:21She ended up moving it all, because like,
0:48:24most regular people just buy a ton of apps,
0:48:26so like, it wasn't like a huge financial investment
0:48:29for her to switch over.
0:48:31It was just a pain, right?
0:48:33Like to download all of the apps again,
0:48:34because you end up with that thing where it's like,
0:48:37"Oh hey, you have to switch account to update this application."
0:48:39And, yeah.
0:48:41But, uh, okay.
0:48:43Well, I look forward to the long-term follow-up
0:48:46of Federico's iCloud issues.
0:48:49Maybe the third iCloud account is the charm.
0:48:53Nah. No. No, I don't want to.
0:48:57Have you thought about, like, just switching to Android?
0:48:59I'm not one of those people.
0:49:01Okay. Okay.
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0:50:11On Connected, we like to check back in with stuff we have been using for a while and Shortcuts
0:50:17has been out now.
0:50:18Sorry, I thought I would demo a new segment jingle for you there.
0:50:23The check back in?
0:50:24- You did the sound effect as you were saying that.
0:50:27That was incredible.
0:50:28It's like there's two mics.
0:50:31- You're like a ventriloquist.
0:50:33- Yeah, no, no, I hired someone
0:50:35that I have just standing here,
0:50:37ready to make the sound effect whenever I need it.
0:50:40- Oh, this is somebody, somebody's looking at you
0:50:42while you do the show.
0:50:43- Sound effect Sammy, is their name.
0:50:46- Sound effect Sammy.
0:50:47- Yeah. - Okay.
0:50:48Okay, that's not creepy at all.
0:50:50- So this week, in whatever this segment is called,
0:50:53We're talking about shortcuts.
0:50:55- How do you know what it's called?
0:50:56I just played the jingle.
0:50:57- It's called the check back in.
0:50:59Come on.
0:51:00- The check back in.
0:51:01So we're checking back in on shortcuts.
0:51:03And Federico, you wrote a lot of things in the doc,
0:51:05so why don't you go first?
0:51:07- Yeah, there are not a lot of things.
0:51:08You'll see my reviews, but yes.
0:51:11So I wanted to, I asked you guys this question last night.
0:51:16Why don't we check back in on how we, yes,
0:51:20on how, thank you Sammy,
0:51:21on how we are using the shortcuts app
0:51:26and the series shortcuts for apps on iOS 12.
0:51:30And I wanna talk about the shortcuts app first.
0:51:32I've been impressed so far
0:51:36with the work of the shortcuts team in adding new actions,
0:51:40especially with the 12.1 release
0:51:43that added the weather actions
0:51:45and the clock and measurement actions,
0:51:48but also the sharing improvements for iCloud,
0:51:51those actually work for me.
0:51:53And the bug fixes, the performance improvements,
0:51:56like all the general maintenance of shortcuts.
0:52:00I was afraid coming into iOS 12 and shortcuts 2.0,
0:52:05that it was gonna stay untouched for months.
0:52:08And that has not happened so far.
0:52:10The team is still listening to feedback
0:52:14and they are like, they still keep the test flight beta
0:52:19going. So I don't know if at this point, you know, with the latest release that we just mentioned,
0:52:24they got rid of a lot of bugs that were affecting the app. Now, going into the new year, will we see
0:52:32any major shortcuts features before WWDC? I don't know. I'm not sure. Mostly because I think
0:52:41Most teams at Apple, they, institutionally,
0:52:45they tend to save big features for WWDC
0:52:48because it's their thing, right?
0:52:50It's their conference, it's where the software,
0:52:53the new software happens.
0:52:54So will shortcuts get stuff like folders
0:52:57or auto triggers before WWDC?
0:53:01I don't know.
0:53:02Will it get new actions and some new features?
0:53:05Maybe.
0:53:06That said, I wanted to go over with you to
0:53:10our usage of the shortcuts app before we talk about Siri shortcuts for apps.
0:53:14And personally, I mean, I'm still using shortcuts a lot. It's probably my most used app, you know,
0:53:24except for maybe my text editor where I write. There's new ways that I'm using shortcuts and
0:53:31old ways that I'm using it for. New ways include HomeKit controls, so the new HomeKit integration,
0:53:38the ability to run scenes. I'm using that a lot. I put together a lot of shortcuts that
0:53:43trigger specific scenes or trigger things together, like multiple scenes in a row,
0:53:48or for example commands on the Mac Mini, as I talked about with Steven last week,
0:53:54in addition to HomeKit scenes. And I'm using these shortcuts as widgets and also as icons on
0:54:00on the home screen for easy access.
0:54:03And there are also old ways that I'm using shortcuts
0:54:07like a more powerful version of workflow
0:54:09because that's what it is.
0:54:10Like my shortcuts to add device frames to screenshots
0:54:15or the shortcuts that I have for accessing reminders
0:54:19when they are synchronized on my phone.
0:54:22Shortcuts for Mac mini automation,
0:54:27shortcuts for AppleScript, for example.
0:54:30Now I can change the volume of my home pods from shortcuts and Siri.
0:54:33And I find myself using the Siri integration a lot.
0:54:38So the ability to to run a custom shortcut inside Siri that I'm using quite frequently,
0:54:44especially for shortcuts that do something in the background or produce something
0:54:49without user interaction in Siri, because that's not supported yet anyway.
0:54:53So overall, I would say that.
0:54:56I'm using the new actions like measurement, for example, that I'm using a lot.
0:55:01I'm happy with the fixes, especially in the latest release that has been in beta for a few weeks at this point.
0:55:08The new system integrations like HomeKit, they're really convenient.
0:55:14But overall, I mean, I'm super happy about shortcuts.
0:55:18I'm just not concerned, but curious to see what happens before WWDC.
0:55:24If now that they have fixed all of the major bugs, will they disappear for six months?
0:55:31Or will we still see some stuff from the shortcuts team? I don't know.
0:55:35So for me, I would say I use shortcuts as much as I use workflow workflows.
0:55:42Right? Like I use them every day, a couple of times a day, but not for like as much as
0:55:48you would use, not even close, right? But the difference for me now compared from shortcuts
0:55:55to workflow is if I want to make something, I can do it more often than not, which wasn't
0:56:02the way with workflow. Because I have an idea about something I want to do and either A,
0:56:08it's a system feature which is now supported, or B, third party app has put it in for adoption
0:56:15by the shortcuts app. So I'm finding myself being able to build shortcuts on my own more
0:56:22easily than I could workflows. And with every new feature that they keep coming up with,
0:56:29I use it more and more. It's a slow building thing for me and I expect it to continue.
0:56:34When I saw shortcuts, I was like, "Well, this is going to change everything for me." And
0:56:40And I still believe it will, but I now think it will be on a slower timeframe than I initially
0:56:46expected.
0:56:47Like, I think it needs all of the things that you want, right?
0:56:50And being able to do more things in the background, being able to do things on times will allow
0:56:56me to build some more interesting stuff than what I can currently build.
0:57:01Because I'm still limited to what I will want to access or trigger at any specific point.
0:57:07my ability to be able to create things on my own is increased. And I think that that
0:57:12is probably the most important thing to do first, right is like, give people the tools
0:57:18to be able to do this stuff and make it easier for them to do it. And then then like further
0:57:23continue how hooked into the system it is.
0:57:29I think that's about where I am to it's hasn't radically increased my usage of it. But what
0:57:35I can do with it seems easier. Now one thing I am doing and using quite a bit
0:57:41are the like the Siri shortcuts and apps so things like overcast to skip a
0:57:46chapter or to go back or in carrot weather it has a bunch of different ones
0:57:51now you know and those I really like just be able to just talk to my phone
0:57:55and get something or an overcast if I'm riding my bike be able to say hey skip
0:57:59this chapter go back whatever that's just really nice I I still think the way
0:58:04Apple and third party developers surface some of that is a little confusing. And if you
0:58:10go to the settings screen, just downright overwhelming. These are all the last 35 things
0:58:16you could do. I wish some of that was clearer for average users, but I'm liking that stuff
0:58:21a lot just to not necessarily build a shortcut itself, but to just surface little bits of
0:58:27apps from anywhere is pretty handy.
0:58:29- Yeah, there is that super weird thing
0:58:31where an application's like, now with Siri shortcuts.
0:58:34And you would have to just, where do they exist?
0:58:37Like they're not anywhere, right?
0:58:38You know the app has them somewhere, but where is it?
0:58:42- I wish there was a sort of a universal place
0:58:45to look at all that stuff,
0:58:46like a directory Apple could keep in settings.
0:58:49So these are all the apps you have installed
0:58:51that have Siri shortcut support.
0:58:53These are all the shortcuts that they present to the system.
0:58:55I think that sort of index or dictionary somewhere
0:58:58would be really nice.
0:58:59you have that thing in settings, right, where like it can show them, but they don't all
0:59:03work, though, right? So like, am I right with that Federico? Like, the developer still has
0:59:08to say, "Show them all in settings." Like, it doesn't automatically work that way.
0:59:12Yeah, it's weird because there are three layers to this. Like, there's the recent shortcuts,
0:59:21the relevant shortcuts, and all shortcuts. And those are like three separate presentation
0:59:27modes that you can access. I think the easiest way is probably that most people tend to forget
0:59:33that it's possible. You need to open settings and scroll to the list of apps, like in the
0:59:39main screen toward the bottom, and each app has a shortcut section where you can view
0:59:45all of the shortcuts they support, not just the recent ones. Because if you go to Settings
0:59:50Syrian search shortcuts, you will only see the recently donated ones, whereas if you
0:59:57go to the app list and you open an individual app, you will see all of the shortcuts that
1:00:01the app supports.
1:00:02I think that's the way it works.
1:00:04But yeah, it's confusing.
1:00:05And I wish that, to your point, Steven, I wish that there was a way to have grouping
1:00:12by app or new sorting options.
1:00:17I think the current separation of recently used or recently donated and relevant to this
1:00:24moment doesn't really scale well when you have like a hundred apps installed.
1:00:29And also, I wanted to ask you guys, have you ever, ever seen a Siri shortcut on your lock
1:00:38screen?
1:00:39Never.
1:00:40I don't think so.
1:00:41Never.
1:00:42Never seen one.
1:00:43This is one of the features that was hyped at WWDC.
1:00:48And it definitely did work for me at some point this summer,
1:00:51because I took screenshots, I talked about it in the review.
1:00:54But then after the final version of iOS shipped,
1:00:57I never got a shortcut recommendation on the lock screen.
1:01:02- I get them in Spotlight, right?
1:01:05Like, and sometimes they are actually what I want,
1:01:07which I'm always impressed with, right?
1:01:09When it is actually something I would want.
1:01:10like a URL in Safari. It's like, "Oh, you want to go to this page?"
1:01:15I'm like, "Yeah, I do. You're right."
1:01:16You know, but like, I've never ever, ever seen one on the log screen.
1:01:22Yeah. And some Apple people will tell you,
1:01:26"Oh, it's because the system hasn't met the suggestion threshold
1:01:32to push up a shortcut on the log screen."
1:01:34I don't believe that because, I mean, I've been using iOS 12 since June,
1:01:38but let's say just the final version, it's been three months.
1:01:41I think you have enough data points to know what I do on my phone,
1:01:44and I'm surprised that I still haven't seen a shortcut on the lock screen,
1:01:47especially because those shortcuts, those images,
1:01:50they are all over the marketing material for shortcuts in iOS 12,
1:01:53like getting shortcut recommendations on the lock screen.
1:01:56Those screenshots and photos are everywhere on Apple's website.
1:02:01So I don't know, never worked for me.
1:02:05What about, um, are there like specific features of the shortcuts app that you feel like you
1:02:15would need as soon as possible?
1:02:19Not like in June, in six months.
1:02:21Like is that a specific thing that's preventing you from being as efficient as you would like
1:02:26to be with shortcuts?
1:02:28I don't...
1:02:31I don't think so.
1:02:32I think what I really want is like,
1:02:36it's the third party stuff, right? Like I want more,
1:02:41I want like every app that I use to be able to donate more things better.
1:02:46So for like, for example, my email app, Spark, has terrible shortcut support.
1:02:50Like it's so bad, right?
1:02:53When like what I want to see is stuff like what is my in my inbox right now?
1:02:58Like what emails have I received today? Like I would use that quite a lot.
1:03:02But they don't have anything like that, you know.
1:03:04So for me, I think a lot of what has prevented me from using it
1:03:08more is that a lot of the applications that I use don't.
1:03:13So I had this this idea in my brain, right,
1:03:16of the things I would be able to build.
1:03:20But what has come to fruition is not what I was looking for.
1:03:24Like there's a bunch of super exciting things and interesting things that I can do.
1:03:28But a lot of the third party stuff that I'm doing is like
1:03:31one or two actions.
1:03:34Like I use the overcast one to resume
1:03:37my cue multiple times
1:03:38a day because it works so well,
1:03:41because it works better than anything
1:03:42else. Right. Because I could have
1:03:43been listening to music, so I can't
1:03:45press play in control center, but I
1:03:47can always get it to work with the
1:03:48shortcut. I just like, oh, hi,
1:03:49telephone, resume overcast.
1:03:51Done. And it just works.
1:03:52Stuff like that.
1:03:54Fantastic.
1:03:55But like, you know how everybody
1:03:57wanted to build a morning routine?
1:03:58Yeah.
1:04:00Like so many things that I want
1:04:01I want to do in that, I can't do. Like, for example, if I want to do something like that,
1:04:08I want everything read out to me, right? But like, it won't read to me my calendar appointments.
1:04:13- Uh-huh, yeah. - Right? I have to look at my phone for that. Well, it's like, well,
1:04:16you know what I mean? I feel like it's... What it feels like is version one, right? Which it
1:04:25kind of is version one. Like, I know workflow existed, but what shortcuts can do compared to
1:04:30what Workflow can do, it's like a completely different thing, right? Like all of the system
1:04:35stuff that it can do, being able to work so tightly with Siri, this is all version one stuff.
1:04:39And I'm hoping that that will improve. And I'm also hoping that Apple shows the significant
1:04:46changes to it over the next few years to encourage developers to continue working on it.
1:04:50Because my concern is it will be like iPad apps, right? Everyone did them, and then Apple stopped
1:04:58working on it and then nobody made anything more than like flight control HD, right?
1:05:03Like, and then it took like six years.
1:05:06But it was just like everything was something HD, right?
1:05:09You know, that was how all of the apps began.
1:05:11Everyone was super excited.
1:05:13There was tons of them. And then there was just nothing, right?
1:05:16For like five years until it started up again.
1:05:18And I don't and I would feel that like as great as Shortcuts is,
1:05:24if it doesn't get continued support, it will not get its resurgence, right?
1:05:28it will not get a resurgence like the iPad did because Apple isn't selling shortcuts hardware to
1:05:33anybody. So I just hope, look, everything I know, everything I believe about the people behind this
1:05:41would suggest to me, and the history that we have seen since September, would suggest to me,
1:05:47as you were saying, that this is still being very actively worked on. Like a lot of the stuff that
1:05:51they've pushed out as bug fixes could just come out in September again, right? Because they have
1:05:56actually been adding features. So you know and also I know that things tend to
1:06:01come out with iOS releases but not always right there's been some updates
1:06:06that have not been part of iOS releases but they come out at the same time is
1:06:10what I'm saying am I right in that or they always come out when some kind of
1:06:13point updates come out? You mean about apps? Well the shortcuts app does it
1:06:22always get updated when there is a new version of iOS or has it ever been
1:06:26updated without there being a new version of iOS to go along with it?
1:06:30I think it got updates without it.
1:06:31Yeah I think so too. It does seem like it's frequently at the same time for reasons that I'm not 100% sure
1:06:38but it does feel like there is also some bug fixes that come out in the interim as well.
1:06:43So yeah I don't know if there's like I have a stumbling block like a specific stumbling block
1:06:49I just think that maybe my initial excitement was thinking about a future world, right?
1:06:56Like it's not the one that we have right now, but there is still more than ample ability
1:07:01for it to get to where I would personally want it to end up being.
1:07:07Yeah.
1:07:08And there are features that we mention often, like having folders or having user interaction
1:07:15in Siri or even having like a native framework for apps so that you don't have to use like
1:07:23X-callback and that type of stuff anymore. But really there are some like some really
1:07:29big features and native functionalities that I think need to happen at some point if they,
1:07:35you know, to expand the reach of shortcuts beyond people who were already familiar with workflow.
1:07:41stuff like having these automatic triggers to run a shortcut when it's a specific time of the day or
1:07:47location or an alarm is triggered in calendar. So those kinds of triggers.
1:07:52So you remember we were talking about an actions-focused home screen, right? We were
1:07:58talking about that a couple of weeks ago, right? Because you built your incredible icon-launching
1:08:05thing, right? I spent some time playing around with it, and I found myself being frustrated.
1:08:10So I set up a couple of actions as if one was a new Intoduist and one was a "What's
1:08:16going on today?"
1:08:17So it would show me my calendar and show me my Intoduist, what's happening today in Intoduist.
1:08:24But every time I press them, the shortcuts output would open and then it would fire something
1:08:30else and it's just like, "This is clunky.
1:08:34I don't like it.
1:08:35It's not what I want."
1:08:36what I want is just to tap it and just see the UI that Todoist built for this that shows
1:08:43in Siri, right? Or it takes me right to where I want it to be. I don't want it to open shortcuts
1:08:51and run the shortcut. I had this grand idea of like, "Oh, what if I rebuilt my entire
1:08:57iPhone around actions?" and then was turned off by the fact that it was just... I know
1:09:02I would get really frustrated with the clunkiness over time. So what I really want, the biggest
1:09:09things that I want from Shortcuts now is to not have to see the Shortcuts app except for
1:09:14when I'm building Shortcuts.
1:09:16So the system should suggest them to me better, I should be able to add them to my home screen
1:09:21and all of this stuff, they should be able to run on timers, they should be able to do
1:09:27all kinds of wonderful things without me needing to see the shortcuts app every time. To me,
1:09:32the shortcuts app is the building tool. That's pretty much all I want it to be.
1:09:38It's like if every time you wanted to get somewhere, you would need to look at the engine
1:09:41of your car working.
1:09:42It's just like, if I go to the store, okay, yep, yep, the carburetors are firing, here
1:09:48we go.
1:09:49Exactly. And I could see a home screen where you can add a shortcut. And by the way, Apple
1:09:54should totally get rid of the system that I'm exploiting with my shortcut to save web
1:10:01clip icons to the home screen.
1:10:02I was going to say that they probably will, now that you've done what you've done, is
1:10:06my feeling.
1:10:08You've exposed the engine.
1:10:12But I could see, for example, you add shortcuts to your home screen and you have a shortcut
1:10:17that presents you with an image.
1:10:20And so you tap a shortcut and you see like a quick look come up with a photo, like a
1:10:25specific photo or a specific document without having to see shortcuts launching and running
1:10:30step one, step two, and all those actions.
1:10:34Or like maybe you have a custom shortcut that puts together a bunch of data from different
1:10:40places like a morning routine, for example, and you add it to the home screen and you
1:10:45you tap it and you see just the result of that shortcut, not all of the steps.
1:10:51Like that would be amazing.
1:10:54That's a very good point of like, I don't need to see the building blocks every time,
1:10:58I just want to see the result.
1:11:01Because right now, I mean, we basically have a different version of what was in workflow.
1:11:07So this work around of adding web apps to the home screen, that's what it is.
1:11:13should be a native solution to do this. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I find myself, like,
1:11:19about 90, I would say about 75% of the shortcuts that I run are being
1:11:29triggered from the widget because when you tap something in the widget a lot
1:11:37of it can run without you having to look at it. So like I have some workflows,
1:11:42shortcuts I should say, sorry, that if I run from any place other than in the
1:11:46widget I have to watch it happen. But in the widget I don't have to watch it
1:11:51happen. Like it will just, it just does its thing for me. And that is how I wished
1:11:55it was in more places. So, but yeah, I mean they're, again, like it's as I
1:12:00say every time, if you work on iOS you need this app and you need it more than
1:12:05you think you need it. Like it bridges so many important gaps but there's still
1:12:09room to grow. Can I say something quick for two minutes?
1:12:12Yeah. I don't know if you guys are familiar with all these websites that have popped up,
1:12:17like Routine Hub, for example. These sort of third-party websites that aggregate shortcuts
1:12:23made by other people. And I've seen this trend, especially on the shortcuts subreddit, of
1:12:35adding a lot of custom actions to a shortcut that you share with people to, for example,
1:12:43to support versioning and auto-updates and contacting a server to download the latest
1:12:50version of a shortcut.
1:12:52Adding all of these dependencies, essentially, to a shortcut just to make sure that it works
1:12:59with these websites, and that it supports auto-updates and stuff like that.
1:13:05And why I appreciate what, for example, I don't want to call out the folks at RoutineHub
1:13:09specifically, they're doing an excellent job aggregating shortcuts, but personally, I don't
1:13:14like, and that's the reason why I don't use it, people have been asking, like, why don't
1:13:19you put this code in your shortcuts?
1:13:23I don't like the idea of making a shortcut for people and sharing the link and before,
1:13:30and you're not able to understand what the shortcut does because before you get to the
1:13:34actual shortcut, you see 20 actions that are meant to like create a folder in your iCloud
1:13:40drive to save a configuration file, to save references.
1:13:45I don't want to do that.
1:13:46I don't want to do that to my readers.
1:13:47I don't want to do that to everybody who follows me on Twitter.
1:13:51And also, I've seen many times some questionable choices
1:13:56in terms of pinging a remote server
1:13:58to download configuration files.
1:14:01So my advice would be, if you share a shortcut
1:14:04with a lot of people, don't add this custom code.
1:14:06Wait for Apple to ship a native feature.
1:14:08Yes, I know that it sucks that shortcuts do not
1:14:11support auto-updates.
1:14:13You can share them on these websites
1:14:15without having to add any custom code.
1:14:17But also, be mindful.
1:14:18Whenever you come across these long shortcuts,
1:14:20Be mindful of the remote calls that they are making to servers
1:14:25that are not your own.
1:14:28These shortcuts, they cannot seal your data or anything
1:14:31like that.
1:14:31Why would a shortcut need to do this?
1:14:33For example, if you host a JSON file for configuration
1:14:37of the shortcut remotely, every time the shortcut runs,
1:14:40it could download the latest content of the JSON file
1:14:44from your server.
1:14:46OK.
1:14:47But what do you need that for, though?
1:14:49what kind of shortcuts you--
1:14:52For example, to see how certain preferences
1:14:56are set on the user's device for that specific shortcut.
1:15:03I've seen shortcuts, for example,
1:15:04that need to talk to a server before continuing,
1:15:12because they need to make sure that you have the latest
1:15:14version installed, or that you--
1:15:17they need to check if you installed the shortcut correctly,
1:15:21for example.
1:15:22And I've seen shortcuts that like create five folders
1:15:26in iCloud drive and store like dozens of text files
1:15:30just for configuration purposes,
1:15:32just to support auto update and auto checking
1:15:35every time the shortcut runs.
1:15:37I understand why people do this.
1:15:39I don't like it.
1:15:40And I don't like the idea of every time the shortcut runs,
1:15:44it talks to a server that is not specifically mentioned
1:15:48in the description of the shortcut
1:15:49or in the comments of the shortcut.
1:15:52And for example, you may think that you're just,
1:15:54I don't know, using a shortcut that you pick a photo
1:15:57and you add, I don't know, a frame to the photo,
1:15:59but then you end up in a situation
1:16:01where that photo is also uploaded to a server.
1:16:03Like be mindful of the shortcuts that you download
1:16:06and always look at them.
1:16:07And that is why I always leave comments
1:16:09and why I always explain the shortcuts that I make,
1:16:12because I want to make sure that people understand what they're using on their devices.
1:16:19Super weird.
1:16:20Yeah. I don't like that. I don't like that at all.
1:16:23I've never even heard of this. And again, I'm still not even sure I know why it needs
1:16:30to be done.
1:16:33Most people are trying to compensate for the fact that when you share a shortcut, that's
1:16:39That's it. That's the version that you shared.
1:16:41If you make a change to the shortcut
1:16:43that you shared with people,
1:16:44then you gotta go to those people and say,
1:16:47"Oh, I have a new version.
1:16:48You should remove the first one and install this new one
1:16:51because I fixed something."
1:16:52Right?
1:16:53I have a website to do this.
1:16:55I have a Twitter account with a bunch of followers.
1:16:57Most people on Reddit, they don't wanna do this
1:17:00because they don't have a website or don't have an audience.
1:17:03And so they embed this code in the shortcut
1:17:06that every time it runs,
1:17:08It checks if there's a new version,
1:17:10which means you're hosting this code somewhere else
1:17:13because it needs to check.
1:17:14I really don't like it.
1:17:17I really, I understand why people do it,
1:17:19but please find some other way
1:17:21that is not embedding 20 actions or even five actions.
1:17:24It's just, my advice for people is that
1:17:27while you may think that it's a good idea now,
1:17:30and adding this kind of third-party dependency
1:17:33to your shortcut is not something that you really,
1:17:37Think about it very carefully, because this is a common problem, I guess, for programming
1:17:42in general, adding a third-party dependency to your code.
1:17:45And it's essentially the same thing in shortcuts at this point.
1:17:48Because you don't want to be in a situation where, you know, you make a shortcut, you're
1:17:52really proud of it, and then in six months it's no longer working, because the third-party
1:17:56service that you trusted for auto-updates no longer exists.
1:18:01And so now you've got to go back and change your shortcuts six months later.
1:18:05You have introduced me to a world that I had no idea existed.
1:18:08Oh, yeah. That's so interesting to me.
1:18:10I had no idea people were doing this kind of stuff.
1:18:12Yeah. Today's episode is also brought to you by our friends over at Luna Display.
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1:20:07because airdrop will still work because it's on the Mac.
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1:20:13Our thanks to Luna Display for their support of this show and Relay FM.
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1:20:18I was so happy with the Luna unit that they sent me a few months ago.
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1:20:43But then if I want a bigger screen, I will mirror the iPad running Luna to the Ultrafine.
1:20:49I want to see what happens.
1:20:53So the Mac Mini sitting next to the monitor, but yeah, it's going through the iPad.
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1:21:02That is something that I want to try.
1:21:03But yes, go get a lunar display, it's excellent.
1:21:06Talking about interesting ways to access things.
1:21:10Apple Music is coming to the Amazon Echo.
1:21:13Hmm, okay.
1:21:14Are you happy?
1:21:15You're still using the Echo?
1:21:17Well, I mean, I still have them.
1:21:19I don't listen to music on my Echo.
1:21:21Okay.
1:21:22This is interesting. I mean, I would love a little bit more information, since we're
1:21:28going to have to wait. So like, it's not completely clear right now, launch on December 17th,
1:21:32it's not completely clear right now whether this is a skill, or you'll have the ability
1:21:38to set it as a default music service.
1:21:40Okay, so I also wondered this publicly, and people, because it was public people, got
1:21:47in touch with me and said the title, you know, the Jay-Z music service.
1:21:53What is Tidal's thing? Isn't it like uncompressed? Isn't that their thing? They have a thing,
1:21:58right? Yeah, the thing is lossless. Lossless, that's it. Yeah. They also launched a skill
1:22:07for the Echo, I think a couple of weeks ago, but it can apparently be used, once a skill
1:22:13is installed, it can be used as a default music service. So I think it works this way.
1:22:18Once you install the skill, it becomes an option in the device settings for music service.
1:22:25Okay. Interesting. And I'm assuming, I'm just going to assume, because I don't think this
1:22:30could even remotely be possible, that it would be possible for me to play songs on my own
1:22:34bottom animals and echo at the same time, right? Like, I wouldn't be able, like with
1:22:40Sonos like I wouldn't be able to use multi room that doesn't seem possible right that's not possible probably not
1:22:45I've severely doubt it right cuz like yeah that I just I just popped into my head
1:22:53But no that would I can't imagine it being possible so we need a system like Spotify Connect
1:22:57Which is really good, but Apple doesn't have I will finally be able to cancel my Spotify account
1:23:03Now I kind of forgot that I had one
1:23:08Because I never use music on my echo anymore, right? That's why I had it because Amazon music's library service
1:23:14It's not very good
1:23:15Like it does it has doesn't have a lot of what I'm looking for
1:23:18But Spotify did so when I was using the echo stuff, I would have Spotify and would use that
1:23:23But now I have the home pods and I'm very happy with the home pods. I just happy music
1:23:27Apple music also exists on Android
1:23:31I saw a report like a news story that they're gonna actually create a tablet Amazon
1:23:37an Android tablet version of Apple Music. This is interesting, right? Like, it's weird,
1:23:44like it feels super weird, but I guess this is like Apple the services company, right? Like,
1:23:51this is what they have to do if they want to be a services company.
1:23:55It's a very different Apple in that we're not used to see
1:24:03Apple allow its software to run on hardware from other companies.
1:24:08And especially...
1:24:12And it still remains strange in that you see this other company write a blog post about it
1:24:19and say "We worked with Apple!" but Apple is silent.
1:24:22And it's like this announcement never happened.
1:24:24That was one of the reasons why I was wondering if it was just like a skill that Amazon built.
1:24:28Right?
1:24:29And they're just like "Haha! We're using the API! What are you gonna do?"
1:24:32Right, but I can't imagine that Amazon would even attempt to do that without tying Apple first.
1:24:38I don't think that Amazon just signed up for an Apple Developer Account and be like,
1:24:42"Let's build an Apple Music skill and write a blog post about it."
1:24:46Wouldn't that be the greatest shade though?
1:24:48Right, because what could Apple do about it at that point?
1:24:51It's like, "Haha, everyone knows about it now. Don't shut us down."
1:24:55No, but because you need to log in with your Apple Music Account, I think...
1:24:59I don't know, maybe it's possible to build a third party skill, I don't know.
1:25:03But it's strange because we're going to see this more and more, especially I think with
1:25:09the TV service.
1:25:11Now that we have Apple Music on Android and Apple Music on the Echo, why not have Apple
1:25:19TV if it's going to be called the service, Apple TV the service, if it's going to be
1:25:23called Apple TV.
1:25:24you know, Jason Snell's theory that it's gonna be called Apple TV. Why not have Apple TV
1:25:30pre-installed on, I don't know, web OS televisions or Samsung televisions? I mean, why not? If
1:25:38this is a service, and by definition a service is something that needs to reach as many people
1:25:42as possible to provide the service, why not have it on multiple devices that are not just,
1:25:49know, the Apple TV overpriced pack that you need to buy in an Apple store. I think we're
1:25:55going to see this more and more for services. And it creates this weird contrast between
1:26:01the same company that makes the iPhone and iOS this locked down platform where everything
1:26:08is curated in theory and Apple approves the kind of software that runs on these devices
1:26:13and the same company that needs to make money off of services, and so they're making skills
1:26:20and integrations for Android and for Amazon and maybe for TVs going forward. It's a very
1:26:25interesting contrast, and I don't know how I feel about it, but it's going to be interesting
1:26:31to observe.
1:26:32I think it's just an inevitable move. It is weird because if you look at the previous
1:26:40iteration of this was iTunes, right?
1:26:42And iTunes and the iPod had a very symbiotic relationship,
1:26:47and the iPod got big when Apple put iTunes on Windows.
1:26:52Steve Jobs stood in front of a slide
1:26:53that said, "Hell Froze Over."
1:26:55Just a great Steve Jobs keynote slide.
1:26:58This is a little bit different.
1:27:00Then it was about selling hardware in the iPod,
1:27:03and then selling music through iTunes was to feed the iPod.
1:27:07Now it feels like it's a little bit different.
1:27:08You can buy a HomePod,
1:27:09but they really want you to be an Apple Music subscriber,
1:27:12but there's still that relationship
1:27:15between the hardware and the service.
1:27:16The difference now is that the service
1:27:18is in the driver's seat, and so if you look at it that way,
1:27:22it makes sense for them to be on the Echo.
1:27:24I think there are a lot of Apple customers
1:27:27with Amazon Echos, right?
1:27:29It's sort of like people who buy iPhones
1:27:31and have Apple Music, like they're gonna spend money
1:27:32on voice assistants for their home.
1:27:34It makes sense.
1:27:36It's weird, but I see why they've done it.
1:27:39The same reason I think that Apple Music
1:27:41will continue to exist on Android,
1:27:44why I think that they need a better
1:27:46web client for Apple Music,
1:27:50why they need a better Mac client for Apple Music,
1:27:52'cause it's stuck inside iTunes,
1:27:53which is a horrible place to be.
1:27:55But I think we're gonna see more and more of this
1:27:57as Apple shifts at least part of its business
1:28:00to services revenue.
1:28:02Stuff like this will become more and more obvious over time.
1:28:05This one seems like a little weird.
1:28:10But like, are they gonna put Apple Music on Google Home?
1:28:13- No, why not?
1:28:16- Right, like there's just something about like
1:28:18Apple Music on the Amazon Echo,
1:28:20like that whole thing seems peculiar to me.
1:28:23Like it just, you know, I know that Amazon is now
1:28:27trying to pitch their stuff as more of a music focused thing
1:28:30They have more like musically capable products now.
1:28:34But I wonder is this part of a bigger thing which includes Apple TV
1:28:42going to Amazon Fire TV sticks?
1:28:44It's like a whole big thing.
1:28:46Each company is coming to the table with a thing they want to achieve.
1:28:50Amazon want Apple Music and then maybe Apple want Apple TV on Amazon's products.
1:28:56Like you never know how these things actually go in the background.
1:28:59I tend to believe that a lot of these moves are part of much, much bigger things.
1:29:03And it's like, this is just the stuff that we see publicly.
1:29:06It's all House of Cards back there, you know?
1:29:08But I...
1:29:10Yeah, it's interesting, right?
1:29:13Like, you bring up the iTunes on Windows.
1:29:15Is that the only example of this, other than Apple Music?
1:29:21Of like, software that Apple makes for other platforms?
1:29:27Can't think of anything else. I mean there's iCloud sync and stuff on Windows that's been there a long time
1:29:33But that's about it. I mean that Apple works right on the PC a long time ago. Does that count?
1:29:40I don't think they make anything for Linux
1:29:42What you're saying is it's the year of Apple music?
1:29:45No Linux laptops just Linux on the desktop they won't make it for laptops
1:29:51I wonder if this is gonna be us only how long is it gonna be us only for like I have oh, yeah
1:29:57This is going to be one of those things where Apple, like every other company in the world,
1:30:01didn't know that they had to go through a different process for submitting to international
1:30:05Amazon stores. So like the skills in the UK have to be submitted separately to the skills
1:30:11in the US. This happens all the time. And I have no doubt that's going to be a problem.
1:30:18It's interesting to consider where sort of the power lies in this relationship. Apple
1:30:26needs Amazon more than Amazon needs to be on the HomePod. That's what I see here.
1:30:33Apple Music needs to be on the Echo because Apple wants to be on the Echo more than Amazon
1:30:37wants to have Amazon Music on the HomePod. And it's a, you know, Apple can play, you
1:30:43know, can be, you know, the company that doesn't comment on these. They haven't announced anything
1:30:49on their own, you know, through their own channels and probably won't. I would be surprised
1:30:54to see a Phil Schiller tweet, or maybe an Eddie Q tweet, maybe Eddie will tweet about
1:30:59it. He's the kind of guy who's gonna...
1:31:00You don't think it might show up on the newsroom?
1:31:02Mmm, no, no. I don't know. I don't know. It would be really strange to see an Amazon product
1:31:10mentioned on Apple.com. I don't know. But Apple needs to be on the Echo, because more
1:31:17more people have the echo and it's a chance to expose Apple Music to a big audience. And
1:31:25so I think it's very fascinating that Apple is in this situation at this point. And they
1:31:33will be when they want to launch their TV service because they're going to face some
1:31:38competition. And again, listeners are connected. Don't usually follow this kind of news. You
1:31:46you should go listen to the upstream segment on Upgrade,
1:31:50which is the podcast by Myke and Jason
1:31:52because they do an excellent job
1:31:54describing this media landscape these days.
1:31:58I don't know.
1:32:00I feel like Apple needs to be on the Echo,
1:32:02but they don't wanna comment on this integration.
1:32:05And we will see more and more of this stuff
1:32:08over the next few years.
1:32:10But it feels, I am with you, it feels strange.
1:32:14There's something strange about it.
1:32:16So when poking around the Apple's website and like on the music page on features, they
1:32:21say Apple music players on all of your devices and it has PC, Android, Sonos listed there.
1:32:27So you would expect to see in a couple of weeks that will also say Amazon Echo products,
1:32:33right?
1:32:34Okay. So and will they say so you can ask Alexa to play your music?
1:32:39Now you see, I'm assuming not, right? Like I feel like that might be a bridge too far.
1:32:45I don't want to mention that. Well, they speak the unspeakable name on apple.com.
1:32:51God, that would be so interesting. I tell you what, if they have anything like that,
1:32:57that's how you know Amazon are in the driving seat of this one. Right? If the word Alexa
1:33:03is listed on any apple.com page, I would be surprised if it even made it to a support
1:33:10document.
1:33:11I mean there has to be a support document somewhere. They have support documents for
1:33:15Android for Sonos, I think.
1:33:17No one reads those but me. It's fine.
1:33:19Steven reads them. So, I don't know. We'll see. So, also weird. Starting the week of
1:33:27December 17, is this going to be like a staged rollout of some kind?
1:33:31Probably. Yeah. It'll show up in your...
1:33:34That's how it ends up, like, yeah. Europe in like January 2024.
1:33:38- I think even the US, Amazon has done that before
1:33:41with new features, they sort of show up in the helper app
1:33:45on iOS, not for everybody at the same time.
1:33:47So I think it'll be over a couple days.
1:33:49You'll get it or you won't and then you'll have it later.
1:33:52I'm looking forward to trying this out.
1:33:54I only have one Amazon Echo left now that we have
1:33:57two HomePods and slowly overtaking the Echo.
1:34:01I was paying for the Amazon streaming music service deal
1:34:06that you could hook up to the Echo that was better
1:34:07than the free one, and I've canceled that.
1:34:09I'll put Apple Music on that Echo,
1:34:11and probably that Echo's gonna get replaced
1:34:14by HomePod at some point.
1:34:15Next time I can get one less
1:34:17than Apple's ridiculous asking price.
1:34:20But I think this is a smart move on Apple's part,
1:34:23and I'm glad to see 'em do it.
1:34:25I'm glad to see them be able to shed the idea
1:34:28that everything they have to do is filter through hardware,
1:34:30that if they want their services to grow,
1:34:32they need to decouple it from actual objects they sell.
1:34:35And that's exciting.
1:34:36It's a change, but it's I think a positive one.
1:34:39Well, I think that does it for this week, gentlemen.
1:34:42All right, if you wanna find links to stuff
1:34:45we talked about this week, you can head over
1:34:47to our website, relay.fm/connected/221.
1:34:52While you're there, you can send us an email
1:34:54with any feedback or follow-up.
1:34:56You can do that on Twitter as well.
1:34:59Myke is there as I-M-Y-K-E.
1:35:01Myke is the host of a bunch of great shows
1:35:04here at relay.fm.
1:35:05Go check some other fine programming out.
1:35:08You can find Federico on Twitter @vitiici,
1:35:11V-I-T-I-C-C-I, and he is the editor-in-chief
1:35:14of MacStories.net.
1:35:16You can find me there as ismh, and I write 512pixels.net.
1:35:21I'd like to thank our sponsors this week,
1:35:22Away, Pingdom, and Luna Display.
1:35:25And until next week, guys, say goodbye.
1:35:28- Arrivederci.
1:35:29- Super, one quick thing.
1:35:31I would like to add my congratulations to you, Steven,
1:35:34on joining MacPower users. Federico said everything I would have wanted to say last week, but
1:35:39I'm very, very excited. Katie has been wonderful and we're sorry to see her go, but I'm excited
1:35:46to see what you bring to that show as well. So cheerio!
1:35:48Thanks, man. Adios!