216: The Honking Powers the Vehicles


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   - Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 216.

00:00:12   And if you celebrate Halloween, I guess, happy Halloween.

00:00:15   Our show this week is brought to you by Pingdom,

00:00:18   Linode, and PayPal.

00:00:19   I'm your host, Stephen Hackett.

00:00:20   I am joined by both of my co-hosts.

00:00:23   I have Myke Hurley here.

00:00:24   Hello, Myke.

00:00:25   Quora tells me that Canadians say, "Hey, how's it?"

00:00:30   So, "Hey, how's it?"

00:00:32   I'm in Canada right now. - How's it?

00:00:33   How's what?

00:00:35   - It. - How's it?

00:00:37   Okay. - How's it?

00:00:38   - And we have freshly off an airplane, Federico Vittucci.

00:00:42   - Hello, people of the internet.

00:00:44   I'm back in Rome and I'm sort of jet-lagged,

00:00:48   but also I feel pretty good I can do the show.

00:00:50   I'm excited to do the show.

00:00:52   I'm happy to be here with you two.

00:00:54   The basic underpinnings of this episode say it should be a disaster, right? I'm on a hotel

00:01:03   wifi in a hotel in Canada. Federico just got off a plane having been in New York for 36

00:01:09   hours. It feels like they said it couldn't be done, but we're going to have a great show.

00:01:14   It doesn't matter, because we're back together again.

00:01:18   You set a bar now that we have to hit in this episode.

00:01:21   I don't think it'll be very difficult.

00:01:23   - I don't think so either.

00:01:24   - I think we should do it.

00:01:25   - BS, we are slowly working our way back to normal

00:01:28   last week's episode.

00:01:29   Was live in New York, Federico you missed that,

00:01:32   but Marco Armit joined us in your stead.

00:01:34   And again, a big thanks to Marco for joining us.

00:01:36   And if you came out to the live connected

00:01:39   or the live upgrade we had in Chicago, thank you so much.

00:01:42   It's always fun to get out and meet people.

00:01:44   It's why we do the live shows.

00:01:46   And it was just a really fun week.

00:01:49   And if you're a Relay FM member, like four seconds ago,

00:01:52   I sent the newsletter and we sort of did a tour recap in there.

00:01:55   You can see some pictures and hear more about our week.

00:01:57   So we plan on doing more of this.

00:02:00   We're already kind of talking about some plans for 2019.

00:02:03   So if you didn't see us this time out on the road, hopefully we can meet in the future.

00:02:08   Catch us next time.

00:02:09   Come to WWDC.

00:02:10   Yes, we will be there.

00:02:13   And we'll be in some other cities probably sometime next year.

00:02:17   Time will tell.

00:02:19   We introduced Marco as Federico's American cousin, but I see a tweet now that makes that

00:02:25   more confusing.

00:02:26   What am I looking at, Federico?

00:02:28   This is a picture of the person we had join us last time.

00:02:32   What is your cousin's name, by the way?

00:02:34   Marcus, because he's of ancient Roman origin.

00:02:41   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:02:44   Marcus Armenti is his real name.

00:02:49   And he was at the event yesterday actually, my cousin Marcus was at the event.

00:02:54   Wow.

00:02:55   Yeah, yeah.

00:02:56   He's really like shot to prominence, just one podcast appearance and now he's getting

00:03:01   invited to Apple events.

00:03:02   He opened his blog, marcus.org, recently.

00:03:08   And you know, first blog post that he had got invited to an Apple event, it was a really

00:03:14   impressive, impressive career path, honestly, for Marcus. He was there, we had

00:03:20   a good time, yeah. Yeah, I complimented him on the on the podcast, you know, being a

00:03:27   first-time guest, I think he did a good job. I think so too.

00:03:30   Mm-hmm. During the live show, I shared some unhappiness with the dark theme in

00:03:38   Mojave, and one of its sort of frustrations, for me at least, is that I

00:03:43   I can't use the light theme with a dark menu bar and dock.

00:03:48   And so I'd asked the audience,

00:03:49   if you've come across a way to do this,

00:03:52   please let me go.

00:03:53   And Connected Listener, John, emailed me and said,

00:03:57   hey, there's this stuff you can do in the terminal,

00:03:59   which Myke is very comfortable with,

00:04:01   to make this happen.

00:04:03   So you can go in here and you basically set a little,

00:04:06   set a preference, a default to right type thing.

00:04:08   - Is it pseudo, kill all something?

00:04:12   - Kill all dock.

00:04:13   Yeah.

00:04:14   "Pseudo kill all light."

00:04:15   "Pseudo turn off the lights."

00:04:16   "Pseudo kill all light."

00:04:17   Wow.

00:04:18   "Pseudo kill all happiness."

00:04:19   I think you need a hyphen in there, so it's "Pseudo hyphen kill all light."

00:04:25   You know what?

00:04:26   I forgot the tilde.

00:04:27   That's the problem.

00:04:28   I knew it was going to get me.

00:04:30   Backslash, backslash, kill all duck.

00:04:32   Right?

00:04:33   I think that's basically it.

00:04:35   So just type that directly into your terminal and it'll be fine.

00:04:38   There'll be a link to this.

00:04:39   What's the one that erases everything?

00:04:40   Isn't there like some well-known command that just like destroys everything?

00:04:43   "Suit or die."

00:04:44   It's a...

00:04:45   What?

00:04:46   It's the command.

00:04:48   It's like the Four Horsemen type dealio, just for the Macintosh.

00:04:57   I have not had the opportunity to try this, so I admit that I'm passing this along without

00:05:01   having experienced what it actually does, but my understanding is that it will let you

00:05:06   do the light appearance but with the dark doc and minibar, which I prefer. So go check

00:05:12   that out. That'll be in the show notes. Federico, where are show notes this week?

00:05:16   Somewhere. They're somewhere.

00:05:19   He has no idea what episode number this is.

00:05:23   They're on relay.fm/connected/216 because that would be the episode number.

00:05:30   I could have typed any number into the document and he would have read it. Episode 4200.

00:05:35   I have a basic understanding of our position in the number of shows. I know that it's after

00:05:43   200, but before 250. So any number there could work in theory.

00:05:48   Anything

00:05:49   But it's 216.

00:05:50   We were recently passed by upgrade in episode numbers because we take the week between Christmas

00:05:55   and New Year's off and Jason does not.

00:05:58   Up and upgrade never sleeps. That's the problem.

00:06:01   And neither does Federico, apparently.

00:06:04   Federico, what did you think of New York City?

00:06:09   I have some thoughts.

00:06:11   So I've only seen Brooklyn.

00:06:14   I'm afraid, of course, I didn't have time.

00:06:17   I really am pleased.

00:06:19   I think that is the best for you.

00:06:20   I don't know if you could have handled Manhattan.

00:06:22   Stephen did not like it.

00:06:23   I don't think you would like it.

00:06:25   So, okay, so let me go ahead.

00:06:28   New York is very cold.

00:06:31   morning of the event. This isn't a general statement. It does get warm there too. Just

00:06:35   so you know, I don't want you to think that it's just like an arctic wasteland. At this

00:06:39   time of the year, on the 30th of October, it was very cold compared to the 30th of October

00:06:46   in Rome. It was like 10 degrees Celsius, less than Rome. And I don't want to say that I

00:06:54   was freezing, but it was very cold. It's been cold. It's been cold for sure. It was cold

00:06:58   So something that I noticed immediately is that people, I think,

00:07:04   traffic in Rome gets a bad rap. People in New York, they waited the drive,

00:07:11   they're basically honking all the time.

00:07:14   It's effectively like the honking powers the vehicles.

00:07:18   Yes.

00:07:19   I don't understand it.

00:07:21   Like the first five minutes I was thinking, well, maybe there's some problem.

00:07:25   There's, I don't know, like an accident ahead or somebody driving in a funny way and everybody's

00:07:31   honking at this person or something. But then I realized, no, everybody does it all the

00:07:36   time. And it's really like, it makes you nervous because you always fear that something's about

00:07:43   to happen. And so I asked and a few people told me that it used to be worse, like in

00:07:49   the late 80s or something. And I don't know if this is true or not, but somebody, I think

00:07:54   Casey maybe told me that regulations were passed so that people would hunk less, like

00:08:02   there's fines or something if you hunk without an actual reason. Still, even with these regulations,

00:08:10   if they exist, I'm not sure, people hunk all the time. And everybody like... It feels

00:08:18   like there's road work everywhere and it's quite dirty, at least the area of Brooklyn

00:08:25   where I was. People honking all the time and everybody seems very nervous and constantly

00:08:31   in a hurry. Like, I didn't get any chill vibes from Brooklyn.

00:08:39   Yeah, see that's funny because Brooklyn is the chill area.

00:08:42   Okay, so I can only imagine how Manhattan is gonna be.

00:08:46   I'm happy that you did not go to Manhattan on your own.

00:08:49   I don't think that you would like it without someone that could like show you around and

00:08:54   show you why it's a cool place.

00:08:55   I would probably create a horror attack by myself.

00:08:58   I'm happy that you were in Brooklyn.

00:08:59   I think that that was for the best.

00:09:02   So yeah, my impression- Did you eat any emoji?

00:09:05   Did you see any?

00:09:06   Did you like gobble on any emoji while you were there?

00:09:08   Like munch munch munch?

00:09:09   No.

00:09:10   No, no, nothing.

00:09:11   nothing. I brought food supplies with me because I knew that the evening that I arrived, we

00:09:21   had a meetup with Jason scheduled at seven. And I knew that I didn't want to go grab something

00:09:27   for dinner by myself in Brooklyn. And so I just brought some snacks with me. And the

00:09:35   following day I had the apple breakfast. I had a breakfast burrito, which was surprisingly

00:09:41   good, like a mini burrito for breakfast, that it was fine, really.

00:09:47   No, it was good. This just continues your love affair with Mexican food.

00:09:51   Yes, and Apple had set up, I think, a taqueria in front of the opera house.

00:09:57   Yes, Jason was telling me about this. They basically just hired out a Mexican restaurant

00:10:02   for the day. Yes, and it was very nice. It was very nice.

00:10:04   I had a taco, I think huevos con carne. It was very good.

00:10:09   Yeah, it was very good

00:10:11   So I didn't have any bagels didn't have any New York pizza and then at lunch

00:10:15   I was hanging with Casey and we just found a Shake Shack nearby and we just ate a burger

00:10:22   But I didn't get the shake. I didn't get the shake. That's okay. It's okay

00:10:25   The shakes are good. I think the burgers are the best part of Shake Shack. Oh, yeah, it was it was really delicious

00:10:31   Well, you did you did at least one New York thing you ate shake. That's a New York thing

00:10:36   Yeah, there is a literal like shack which was the first Shake Shack in I think Washington Square Park

00:10:42   Which is still there. So that is a New York native meal. So you did that at least

00:10:47   Okay. I want to show you Manhattan one day one day we're gonna do it. I want you to see it

00:10:52   Stephen didn't like it, but and I don't think you'll like it, but I still want to show you it anyway

00:10:58   I feel like I need to be in an extremely relaxed mood

00:11:03   if I were to visit Manhattan. Like, I didn't help that I was in a hurry, tired,

00:11:09   doing this crazy thing of 36 hours by myself.

00:11:13   Yes, that was the problem. Here's the thing though, right, there's a difference between you and Stephen though,

00:11:17   is you're used to Rome, like the center of Rome, and I stand by that the center of Rome feels more busy than Manhattan does.

00:11:24   I think it feels busy in a different way though, I feel like...

00:11:28   It's because there's no space to walk or drive in Rome, and there is space in New York, and that's the difference.

00:11:33   Judging from the pictures that I've seen, I think, because I know myself, I think all

00:11:40   the skyscrapers and the tall buildings kind of make me nervous and anxious.

00:11:44   They like trap you in?

00:11:46   Yeah.

00:11:47   Yes.

00:11:48   Whereas the monuments and the fountains and the ancient stuff in Rome.

00:11:50   They're all falling down, you can see through them.

00:11:53   I think it makes, like, there's a combination of crazy traffic, but also this nostalgia,

00:11:59   beauty at the center of Rome that sort of counterbalances the traffic and the

00:12:04   messiness of people. I don't know what I'm gonna feel in Manhattan with the tall

00:12:12   buildings and the honking and the taxis and all the advertisements.

00:12:16   Like, I feel like, you know, those billboards with the animated graphics

00:12:21   and pictures everywhere. I don't know how I'm gonna react to that, but I

00:12:26   but I want to see it someday.

00:12:28   - Steven, what is your review of Manhattan?

00:12:30   - Thumbs down.

00:12:32   - Oh no.

00:12:35   - I mean, I shared it with you when we were there.

00:12:37   It's just way too busy for me.

00:12:39   And I understand it's like, that is the,

00:12:41   there are people who thrive on that,

00:12:44   and I can see that and I can understand it,

00:12:46   but it's just not for me.

00:12:48   I mean, I'm a homebody, I live in a pretty small city.

00:12:51   Like, it's just really different.

00:12:54   And you know, I didn't, like in London,

00:12:57   London is busy and crazy too,

00:12:59   but Manhattan just feels like that,

00:13:00   like in an aggressive way that I didn't anticipate.

00:13:03   I had a nice time, we did a bunch of sightseeing,

00:13:05   we had the show, like I enjoyed my time there,

00:13:08   but it's not a place that I would go

00:13:11   like on vacation or anything.

00:13:12   - So I wanna balance this out,

00:13:14   just to say that I absolutely adore New York.

00:13:16   I love Manhattan.

00:13:18   It feels like home to me when I'm there,

00:13:20   and I would move to Manhattan and or New York

00:13:23   in a home. Oh my God. Oh my God.

00:13:25   What can I say? I love it. I love it there.

00:13:27   It's the one city in the world other than London that I feel like I understand.

00:13:32   Like I can just walk out into the street at any time a day and just like make it work.

00:13:37   Like it's great. I love it.

00:13:39   Everything is just a block away.

00:13:40   There's always something just it's great.

00:13:42   I love I absolutely love Manhattan. I love New York.

00:13:44   So there is our balance for this episode.

00:13:48   And we should I mean, honestly, we should probably

00:13:51   just talk about this for the next 90 minutes because I think it's interesting,

00:13:55   but probably people were here to hear us talk about new Macs and iPads.

00:13:59   So we should probably get to that, right?

00:14:01   I would expect. Should we do that?

00:14:03   All right.

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00:15:23   Okay, so we're going to dive into products. This was all about

00:15:28   products, except for the weird part about the Apple store in the middle. Before we do that,

00:15:34   I wanted to ask you guys something. I haven't watched the keynote a second time. We're recording

00:15:39   early today and normally if we do this I try to slice in like a second viewing but it seems

00:15:46   like Tim Cook was just very excited about everything like he had way too much coffee

00:15:51   like here's the thing I think Tim really enjoyed the cheering and this is not a thing that

00:15:56   I understand it right but like I think the crowd and you can attest to this Federico

00:16:02   seemed very excited for the entire time.

00:16:05   There were a lot of Apple Store employees, I think, with the blue t-shirts.

00:16:12   And Tim was constantly looking up because there was like a second level, sort of a balcony-type

00:16:16   setup in the theater.

00:16:18   And there were a lot of employees there.

00:16:20   And so I think he really enjoyed the cheering that was going on.

00:16:23   So I think that he was like feeding on that, I think.

00:16:26   Yeah.

00:16:27   Yeah.

00:16:28   It's always strange to me, like, this is a press event.

00:16:30   And that's how I think about it, because like our friends in the press are there.

00:16:33   It does seem like Apple has employees, they have retail employees, you know, at least

00:16:37   there yesterday.

00:16:38   And so the cheering was sort of distracting, honestly.

00:16:41   And like I find it a little off-putting because it's like this is a press event.

00:16:46   Press most of the time aren't cheering for things.

00:16:48   They're there to work.

00:16:49   It's just sort of a surreal thing for me.

00:16:51   But I don't know.

00:16:52   Maybe I'm old.

00:16:53   Federico, did you cheer anything?

00:16:55   I, yes, I did for the iPad Pro.

00:17:02   for Lana DeRay because I love her. And so she's awesome. And I was really happy that

00:17:07   I also got a free musical performance out of the event, which was very nice.

00:17:11   I thought we'd moved past the age of musical performances. There hasn't been one in a long

00:17:15   time. Yeah, me too.

00:17:16   But I guess the venue that they were in kind of demanded it, you know, like they were in

00:17:21   like an opera house, like, come on, you've got to have some you're in the Brooklyn Academy

00:17:25   of Music. You kind of got to do it. And I think it's cool that they did.

00:17:31   We are going to talk about some Mac products today.

00:17:33   We're going to go in the order Apple went in.

00:17:37   That means starting with the MacBook Air.

00:17:39   There have been lots of conversation about the low end of the Mac lineup and there's

00:17:45   going to be a new consumer laptop and they didn't really do that.

00:17:49   They took the MacBook Air and made it new again.

00:17:53   Real quickly, it is the same wedge design but in a smaller package because it has smaller

00:17:58   bezels.

00:17:59   thick silver aluminum bezels are gone. The air, of course, the highlight here is a

00:18:06   Retina display. It is a little bit less bright than the MacBook Pro. There's no

00:18:12   P3, so none of that wide color gamut stuff. No true tone, but it's

00:18:17   Retina. Honestly that's... Oh I didn't know it didn't have the wide color. It does not.

00:18:21   Huh, okay. Which is fine. It's still better... It kind of tricked me because...

00:18:28   I'm sure that's why they did it. Not to trick, but just to make... because I think they said

00:18:32   something like 40% more color or something. Yeah, they did say more color, yeah.

00:18:36   Yeah, but not all the color to get to the wide color gamut. Which again, I think is

00:18:41   fine. Like, totally fine. Two Thunderbolt 3 ports, the SD card slot and USB-A ports have

00:18:46   been banished. It has Touch ID without a touch bar, which may be the most interesting thing

00:18:51   to me on this computer. Let me ask you a question, because I'm sure you've already mined the

00:18:56   Yes. That is where the power button used to be and the key is blank so how do you

00:19:02   turn this laptop on? You push it, that button pushes down, same as the Touchbar

00:19:07   machines. It's, I was gonna say, I was about to say it's weird that they didn't print

00:19:10   anything on it, I'm assuming they can't, I bet they can't print on it, right? So that

00:19:14   Touch ID thing is like you pried it off my Touchbar MacBook Pro and stuck it on

00:19:17   a MacBook Air, it looks the same, it acts the same. Yeah. So is on the Touch ID one

00:19:23   that's also the power button, it's just a blank key. Yes. It actually is a button it depresses

00:19:27   to do the power stuff so it doesn't look like it would but it does it does press

00:19:31   down that's a good question because like which means that like every time someone

00:19:34   uses touch ID they accidentally press the button I'm sure that you know you

00:19:38   say you just rest your finger on it like how strong are your index finger muscles

00:19:41   what are you doing? Very. You wouldn't even believe I have no control over them. Very

00:19:45   strong. It has the t2 chip that we saw in the iMac Pro and the MacBook Pro and

00:19:51   And it's doing all of its T2 type stuff.

00:19:54   So it's doing the secure boot process stuff.

00:19:58   It is managing the SSDs.

00:20:00   It is keeping your FaceTime camera safe.

00:20:03   This does mean that this has super fast SSD performance.

00:20:06   That seems to be kind of where Apple's going.

00:20:09   Marco said that on last week's Connected.

00:20:10   That would make him happy if all Macs

00:20:12   moved to the T2 sort of world,

00:20:14   and it seems like that's happening.

00:20:16   - Yeah, if this one got it, they're all gonna get it.

00:20:18   Right, 'cause this is-- - Yes, the bottom of the line.

00:20:21   in theory. And what's pretty cool is Apple is making the cases for the Retina MacBook

00:20:28   Air out of aluminum that is salvaged during the construction process of the iPad Pro.

00:20:35   You said something very hurtful and upgrade yesterday that I need to address. I just think

00:20:39   it's hilarious. Okay, go on. You, I believe, I don't have the quote in front of me, but

00:20:45   said it was the perfect metaphor that Macs were being built out of the

00:20:51   shavings of iOS devices. I think it is a beautiful

00:20:56   metaphor that says absolutely everything you need to know about the

00:21:01   products that Apple sells. Like they sell so many more iOS devices they are

00:21:06   literally making... It's just the iPad. That's what they said for now.

00:21:10   They sell so many more iPads. They just mentioned it. My expectation is it's

00:21:18   also iPhones but like they just haven't spoken about it because they just said

00:21:21   that like oh and during because they didn't talk about the iPhone like they

00:21:25   can't be selling that many of this iPad or making of that many of this iPad that

00:21:29   they could use just the sharings of this iPad to make all these maxes they're

00:21:32   all coming out at the same time like how could they have done that right? Maybe

00:21:36   they've been like sweeping up for a while. I expect it's like it is all

00:21:40   aluminium that is being used in iOS devices, it's just being collected up.

00:21:44   I'm sure it is. I just wanted to share my...

00:21:46   It is funny to me. I'm sorry, like it's funny, right? Like it is funny, it's kind of just like, it's a very cool thing that they're doing,

00:21:53   but it's like that it shows the misbalance of iOS devices to Max now.

00:21:59   That iOS devices are so much smaller than Max, but they make so many of them

00:22:03   disproportionately, that they can use the literal shavings to make the bodies of

00:22:07   of the other products. It's funny to me.

00:22:10   It's super cool though, right? Like they're not having...

00:22:12   It's amazing! It's amazing. Like, this is a real step forward. Like, okay, it was either

00:22:19   this or you had to stop using aluminium, like in the long run, right? Because it was bad

00:22:23   for the environment. This is awesome. I mean, of course the problem is they're still doing

00:22:27   it for the iPhones, but they're at least having some benefit out of the process, that they're

00:22:32   able to make other products out of recycled aluminium. I hope that at some point that

00:22:37   they can try and push some of this into the iPhone line as well so they become

00:22:40   partly recycled right like you make one and then you use the shavings of that

00:22:44   one for the next one like that kind of thing you know I would hope that they

00:22:47   can try and make this more of like a sustaining thing going into the future

00:22:51   it'd be cool and it seems like you would never know this like in your mind you

00:22:55   may be picturing like those bouncy balls that they make out of recycled rubber so

00:23:00   it's like all different color bouncy ball stuff together right like that's

00:23:04   That's what I would love though. I would absolutely love to have a MacBook made out of the shavings

00:23:10   of iPhone XR aluminum.

00:23:11   That would look crazy.

00:23:13   How cool would that look? It would look incredible.

00:23:16   It would look like your iOS home screen.

00:23:18   It would. No, my home screen is pretty chill right now. At least the photo anyway.

00:23:23   I believe Greg called it unicorn vomit once on Cortex.

00:23:26   I think it was clown vomit.

00:23:27   Clown vomit.

00:23:28   But yeah, one or the other.

00:23:29   Unicorn Ada clown and out came your home screen. Anyways, so this is by all

00:23:36   appearances a new MacBook Air. It's the design that people liked so much. Oh Federico, did you see one? I saw one. I

00:23:45   honestly didn't even bother to touch it.

00:23:48   I took a picture of it. Looked, it looked alright.

00:23:52   But I went to check out the Mac Mini because I was more interested in that. We'll talk about that in a bit.

00:23:58   - Yeah, so it's 2.75 pounds, which is like,

00:24:03   getting closer and closer to MacBook territory,

00:24:06   which we could talk about the relationship

00:24:08   between these machines.

00:24:09   Pricing, just briefly, it starts at $1,199

00:24:14   for a dual core i5.

00:24:16   You can go up to 16 gigabytes of RAM

00:24:21   and up to 1.5 terabytes with, again, all SSD storage.

00:24:27   There's been some conversation around the CPU.

00:24:31   So this is a 1.6 gigahertz core i5, what they call it.

00:24:36   It's dual core.

00:24:40   It turbos up to 3.6 gigahertz.

00:24:43   - Turbo. - Turbo.

00:24:44   It seems like this is a processor

00:24:48   that is more closely related

00:24:50   to what is in the 12 inch MacBook

00:24:52   than what was in the old Air

00:24:54   and what is currently in the two port MacBook Pro,

00:24:59   which I would have bet money would have gone away

00:25:02   after this machine came out,

00:25:03   but it seems like this MacBook Air is going to be closer

00:25:07   to the MacBook in terms of performance.

00:25:10   I don't wanna go too far into this

00:25:11   because these things have not been reviewed

00:25:14   by people we trust.

00:25:15   They have not been benchmarked by people we trust.

00:25:18   The clock speed says it should be noticeably faster

00:25:21   than the 12 inch MacBook,

00:25:23   but it's not going to be as flexible of a machine,

00:25:27   performance-wise, as the old MacBook Air was in its day.

00:25:31   And so I think some people are upset about that.

00:25:33   I think that's understandable.

00:25:34   I wanna hold judgment, I wrote this this morning on 5/12,

00:25:38   I wanna reserve judgment until we see

00:25:41   what this machine is like in the real world.

00:25:43   You know, you're getting two Thunderbolt ports,

00:25:46   you're getting 12-hour battery life,

00:25:47   it's in a fanless design.

00:25:49   This seems like it could be a really great

00:25:51   consumer notebook and

00:25:53   That it's fine if it can't do Final Cut like this is not what this machine is for so I think people who are like

00:25:59   Really upset about this maybe need to take a breath

00:26:03   Let's see how it actually performs and then we can talk about it when we know more I

00:26:09   don't think that it's fine if it can't do Final Cut like

00:26:15   The MacBook Air was such an important machine for me and it was where I started doing all of my stuff, right?

00:26:22   Like I think it would be a shame if it can't handle that stuff better than the MacBook can I?

00:26:27   Think it would be a shame because it's more expensive than the MacBook right? Like it feels like it fits in the line

00:26:34   I think I think it would be a shame honestly like but but at the same time

00:26:39   I don't really have a dog in this fight. I think that this looks like a mighty fine computer for most people

00:26:45   And I think that for most instances it would be really great, right? Like it looks really cool, right?

00:26:50   Like it's got a lot of cool stuff in it, especially Touch ID I think is awesome

00:26:53   But I think it would be a shame if it if it handles the pro apps as bad as the MacBook does because it's not good

00:27:01   Yeah, no

00:27:01   The MacBook is not good for that one difference though between now and then is that you can get a MacBook Pro

00:27:07   with a

00:27:10   Higher wattage CPU which means it can run hotter and run hotter longer

00:27:15   for 100 more dollars.

00:27:17   So like in the day when you were starting out,

00:27:20   to go from a MacBook Air to a MacBook Pro was--

00:27:23   - Would have been a lot more money, yeah.

00:27:25   - At least more than $100.

00:27:27   I still feel like Apple didn't really clear up

00:27:32   their product line.

00:27:33   Like if anything, it's more confusing now.

00:27:35   - So I have a tweet here from a guy called Jamie West,

00:27:39   sent it to you.

00:27:41   This is the current like offerings from Apple.

00:27:43   MacBook, MacBook Air previous generation, current generation MacBook Air, MacBook Pro

00:27:48   13 inch without touch bar, MacBook Pro 13 inch and MacBook Pro 15 inch.

00:27:54   And Jamie asked you Steven, is this the most laptops Apple has ever offered at one time?

00:28:00   It's pretty close.

00:28:02   So like in the G4 days you had the 12 and 14 inch iBook.

00:28:06   Then you had the 12, 15 and 17 inch PowerBook.

00:28:10   This is the most, as far as I can think of, that we've had.

00:28:15   For a while, Apple had the MacBook Air and the MacBook

00:28:19   and then the MacBook Pros,

00:28:21   but there were fewer size options.

00:28:23   So it is confusing.

00:28:25   The thing I always talk about is if you have $1,100, $1,200

00:28:29   and you walk into a store, what do you buy?

00:28:31   That's more confusing now.

00:28:33   And what I was really hoping for

00:28:36   is that there'd be a really clear answer.

00:28:38   and say, "Hey, if you're going off to college,

00:28:40   "your kid's going off to school, whatever,

00:28:43   "you just need a notebook, what do you buy?

00:28:45   "Like, what Mac do you buy?"

00:28:47   I really want the MacBook Air today,

00:28:50   this new MacBook Air, to be the default answer.

00:28:52   I think it probably still will be,

00:28:55   again, depending on where those benchmarks end up.

00:28:57   If this thing is only 5% faster than the MacBook,

00:29:01   then like, what's the MacBook doing?

00:29:03   The MacBook has one fewer port, the port is less useful,

00:29:06   It only weighs what, like .7 pounds less?

00:29:09   Like, why does that machine exist?

00:29:11   Why isn't this the thin end light?

00:29:13   So, they're still just like, the waters are still muddy.

00:29:17   But I'm glad this machine is here because it does,

00:29:20   I think it does show that Apple is paying attention

00:29:22   to this market.

00:29:23   I just think that they haven't quite gotten all the way

00:29:26   where I think a lot of us would like for them to be.

00:29:28   - I think the price is the hardest part though.

00:29:31   Like it coming in at $1,200 I think is difficult.

00:29:36   I think that's the difficult thing.

00:29:38   And I think that it's not going to help the people

00:29:43   that didn't know what to do before.

00:29:44   Like, you know, this, and I think this is why

00:29:47   the existing MacBook Air still exists at $999

00:29:50   because people want that price point

00:29:53   and this machine should have replaced the 999,

00:29:57   but it hasn't.

00:29:58   And I can see why.

00:30:00   like the technology says it's a mate, you know,

00:30:02   I can see why it's there.

00:30:04   But I really feel like that price point

00:30:06   should have been the thing that they were trying to hit first.

00:30:10   - And I guess you could leave things out

00:30:11   like the T2 and the Touch ID,

00:30:13   and my guess is then you have a $999 laptop in Apple land.

00:30:18   But if Apple is going to take the time

00:30:22   to revise this notebook,

00:30:25   and they didn't put this stuff in,

00:30:27   then like, then it's behind again,

00:30:29   in only a couple of years.

00:30:32   - Sure, sure.

00:30:33   - So today where we are, my hope moving forward is

00:30:37   that in the next year or 18 months,

00:30:40   Apple can bring the price of the Air down

00:30:45   even to like $1,099, like even $100 less

00:30:49   is a big deal in this market,

00:30:51   and then kill the $999 MacBook Air.

00:30:54   Because it's a $200 gap, I understand why it's still there,

00:30:58   but if they can drop it a hundred bucks,

00:31:00   get rid of the old one, that's a better situation

00:31:03   than where we are now, I think.

00:31:05   - Yep, I agree.

00:31:06   This is a good machine, I just think that there are

00:31:11   questions about this machine,

00:31:13   which there isn't for any of the other stuff, really.

00:31:16   I think everything else that they announced

00:31:18   was pretty much at the home run, but not this one.

00:31:23   - So yeah. - It's close.

00:31:24   - You know, if I had someone in my life

00:31:26   looking for a notebook,

00:31:27   I think this is what I would tell them,

00:31:29   because it seems to be the best balance

00:31:32   between performance and size.

00:31:34   Again, not knowing the full benchmark story.

00:31:37   But I would definitely,

00:31:38   if someone's looking at a 12 inch MacBook or this,

00:31:40   I 100% would recommend this.

00:31:43   It's not that much bigger.

00:31:45   You get two ports, it will be faster,

00:31:48   and the disk access will be way faster than on the MacBook.

00:31:52   To me, increasingly, the more I think about this,

00:31:55   I just don't know why the MacBook is still around.

00:31:57   I've really, at its price point and its performance, I just don't quite get it.

00:32:01   Yeah this was my only takeaway from this segment of the event. Like, I don't

00:32:08   understand what's the role of the MacBook at this point. It seems like this

00:32:13   is the basic computer that, unless you want to buy a MacBook Pro, this is

00:32:18   the one you should get. I don't understand why you would be interested

00:32:22   in the MacBook at this point. It sort of feels like a repeat of the situation

00:32:27   that used to be like years ago, we used to have the MacBook and the MacBook Air,

00:32:32   like the previous generation MacBook.

00:32:34   And then Apple simplified the product line, if I'm not mistaken.

00:32:37   And we only had the MacBook Air, which was the, you know, the one that I bought

00:32:41   and that I used for many, many years, the 2011 version.

00:32:44   The greatest Mac that Apple's ever made.

00:32:46   It's just so incredible, right?

00:32:49   Like, I love that computer.

00:32:50   I love that computer. It was great.

00:32:52   And then they reintroduced the MacBook in 2015.

00:32:58   And it feels like we're hitting that point again

00:33:00   of over a complicated product line

00:33:02   and we need to bring back simplification.

00:33:05   It's just confusing why we have two similar computers

00:33:09   and one is better now, but the other is still around.

00:33:13   I don't get it.

00:33:14   So I'm not in the market for a MacBook Air,

00:33:18   but it looks like a fine computer.

00:33:20   I'm interested if only from a conceptual standpoint in the benchmarks, because I think Myke makes

00:33:27   a great point about, you know, even if this is your, the computer that you want to start

00:33:32   with and you're going off to college, I think it's important that you're able to run these

00:33:36   pro apps for, you know, creative uses.

00:33:39   Because I can relate to the idea of first Mac, first time I'm starting to play with

00:33:45   something creative that maybe in the future could become my job, maybe.

00:33:49   So yeah, we'll see what the benchmarks are like.

00:33:53   And it really doesn't need to run them well,

00:33:55   but it needs to be able to do things like the MacBook comp,

00:33:57   which is like if I'm rendering in Final Cut

00:34:03   and plugged in the battery drains.

00:34:05   Like that was a problem that I had with the MacBook.

00:34:08   I understand what's going on here,

00:34:10   but that shouldn't be happening.

00:34:11   So we'll see, I guess.

00:34:14   We'll see.

00:34:15   But we should talk about happier things.

00:34:18   But before we do, let me thank Linode for their support of this week's episode.

00:34:22   Linode will give you access to a suite of powerful hosting options

00:34:26   for you to start your own virtual server server.

00:34:29   You can run it in the Linode cloud.

00:34:30   You can get it set up in under a minute, and their prices start at just five dollars a month.

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00:34:42   They have 10 data centers spread across the world,

00:34:45   meaning you can serve your customers faster than ever before.

00:34:48   Everything is manageable via the command line, which we all know that I love,

00:34:51   and they have an API that allows you to easily automate tasks

00:34:54   or develop custom applications in the node cloud.

00:34:58   All of their pricing tiers feature hourly billing.

00:35:00   They have a monthly cap on all plans and add on services like backup and no

00:35:04   balances, and they have absolutely fantastic pricing options available.

00:35:07   They have high memory plans that start

00:35:09   with 16 gigabytes of RAM or more, and that's super awesome.

00:35:12   But their regular plans start at just five

00:35:14   dollars a month and you can get one gigabyte of RAM on that plan.

00:35:17   As a listener of this show, if you sign up right now at linode.com/connected, you'll

00:35:25   support us and also get $20 credit towards any Linode plan.

00:35:29   So if you sign up for that 1GB of RAM plan, you have 4 months that you can try it out

00:35:33   for.

00:35:34   They also have a 7-day money back guarantee on all their plans so there is absolutely

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00:35:39   Go to linode.com/connected to learn more, sign up and take advantage of that $20 credit

00:35:44   or use the promo code connected 2018 at checkout.

00:35:49   Our thanks to Leno for their continued support of this show and relay FM.

00:35:53   Alright it's here, it's real, the Mac Mini is alive.

00:35:59   Can't believe it.

00:36:02   Even though I knew it was going to happen, I can't believe that it's happened.

00:36:06   It's great, they had a great video, they were making fun of it which I enjoyed right?

00:36:11   Very good.

00:36:12   The video was amazing.

00:36:13   So Federico, I think we should start with you.

00:36:17   How excited are you about this machine?

00:36:19   Because I know, I don't know if we've mentioned,

00:36:21   we did mention this on the show that like,

00:36:23   you need a new computer

00:36:25   and you were kind of waiting for this.

00:36:28   Yes. I'm very excited.

00:36:31   I just discussed this with Silvia and we're gonna do it.

00:36:34   I'm going to buy a Mac Mini

00:36:37   for a variety of reasons.

00:36:39   So, earlier this year, our Synology home server died a very ugly death, and we realized that

00:36:49   we, you know, just a few weeks were needed to realize that we needed to find an alternative

00:36:56   to our home server because we really like using Plex and sort of having a backup space

00:37:03   for all of our stuff, essentially.

00:37:06   Second factor, I realized that I don't really need a portable Mac computer myself, because

00:37:16   when I'm at home and I'm doing podcasts, I could use a desktop Mac.

00:37:21   And if I'm traveling, I can just use Sylvia's MacBook Pro.

00:37:24   So there's really no need for me to have a portable MacBook.

00:37:28   We're in the process of buying new furniture and changing a few things in our apartment,

00:37:35   because we wanted to try something new, you know, try a different layout, buy a bunch

00:37:38   of new stuff. And one of my wishes was I want to get a new desk. I want to get, like, a

00:37:44   slightly bigger desk and I want to have, like, a different setup, more, you know, more elegant

00:37:50   cable management, for example. I would like to have, ideally, a bigger display. And so

00:37:56   we sort of, uh, I proposed the idea of what if I, what if Apple announces on Mac Mini

00:38:03   this was like the summer. I was talking to Silvio and I was like "what if Apple announces Mac Mini?"

00:38:08   and I could probably end up with a new desk, a new 4K display and a Mac Mini and everything would

00:38:13   be nice and neat and you know cable management downright and I could sell my MacBook Pro.

00:38:19   And so I came into this event hoping that Apple would actually also announce their own display,

00:38:25   but Apple is not doing that which is fine I'm gonna buy a display from somebody else so

00:38:31   I'm gonna buy a Mac Mini. I'm still not sure what configuration I want to get.

00:38:34   Ideally I would like to future-proof this machine as much as possible.

00:38:37   I think you're gonna have to, right?

00:38:38   So we can talk about that.

00:38:39   I don't think I'm gonna update this again very soon.

00:38:42   I'm in the market for 4K or 5K display recommendations.

00:38:49   Ideally I wouldn't want to get the LG one,

00:38:53   because I think it looks really ugly with the black plastic around it.

00:38:56   I don't think you're gonna find anything nicer.

00:38:59   I know, but if anybody has recommendations for a nice 4K or 5K display that looks nicer

00:39:06   than the LG one...

00:39:07   I want you, if you're starting to look for like decent stuff in the 4K, 5K range, they

00:39:12   end up becoming gaming monitors, which have all kinds of garishness.

00:39:17   Nah, there's plenty of Dell stuff out there.

00:39:20   It's way better than it used to be.

00:39:21   Oh yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right.

00:39:24   So, my requirements are, if it's a gaming monitor and it supports the high refresh rates,

00:39:32   that's fine, I actually kind of like that.

00:39:34   It needs to work with the Mac Mini of course, and it also needs to work with the new iPad Pros.

00:39:40   So I would like to have a single display that I can use with my Mac Mini and I can use with my iPad Pro.

00:39:46   So that was the dream and we're gonna do it.

00:39:49   So I'm really happy that there's a new Mac Mini because it means I can simplify and I can actually rethink my entire desk setup with this new machine.

00:39:58   So Steven, what is this Mac Mini?

00:40:00   Well, it's for pros because it's Space Gray.

00:40:04   Hey, I'm a pro.

00:40:06   You are a pro.

00:40:07   I do podcasting. Why would you lead your sentence with that? Like, well, it's for pros.

00:40:14   Because I think that Apple saying Space Gray is for pros is stupid.

00:40:18   But whatever. Well, I'm pro. You are a pro. Well, the Mac Mini comes, sorry, the MacBook

00:40:25   Air comes in Space Gray too. Yeah, it's a pro as long as you just use pages and Keynote.

00:40:29   You'll be fine. It's a professional web browsing machine. Chrome books, that's what we all

00:40:36   want. No, we don't. Okay, so let's get into this. From the outside, this looks like the

00:40:40   same Mac Mini we've known for a long time, but like we said, it's in Space Gray now.

00:40:46   But inside, it's all new.

00:40:47   Apple put the Mac Mini down, got a big ice cream scooper,

00:40:51   scooped out all the guts, and put all new guts in.

00:40:54   Which is exactly how hardware engineering works,

00:40:56   I'm pretty sure.

00:40:57   - Oh, it's like pumpkin carving.

00:40:59   - Exactly.

00:41:01   - Yeah. - Exactly.

00:41:02   The cooling is all new, and we will soon see why.

00:41:07   Every single Mac Mini is at least a quad-core CPU.

00:41:13   So this was the big complaint in 2014,

00:41:16   where they took my beloved quad-core Mac Mini,

00:41:18   which I have at home and I'm replacing now.

00:41:22   They got rid of it and made them all dual-core,

00:41:24   which was a huge step backwards.

00:41:25   They led the conversation with their all quad-core,

00:41:29   but you can go up to a six-core i7 if you want to.

00:41:34   Around back, we have four Thunderbolt 3 ports,

00:41:37   two USB-A ports.

00:41:39   Again, the T2 is present doing its T2 stuff.

00:41:43   There's no SD card slot because that's gone now

00:41:46   except for the iMac and iMac Pro.

00:41:48   And because it's the T2 and this is a new modern Mac

00:41:51   as I wished for last week, it is all SSD.

00:41:56   No spinning disk, no fusion drive, all SSD.

00:41:59   You can go up to, I believe, two terabytes of storage

00:42:03   on these things now.

00:42:04   - As far as the happy element goes,

00:42:06   you got pretty much everything you wanted for this Mac Mini.

00:42:09   - I did, and there's a couple things I wanna talk about,

00:42:12   but I wanna lead my, like my opening statement

00:42:14   on the Mac Mini is, this is great.

00:42:16   Like this is the machine that I wanted

00:42:18   to replace my home server with.

00:42:20   This is a machine that if I was building a desktop

00:42:23   for a family member, I would strongly look at this

00:42:26   over the iMac, especially 'cause the iMac didn't get updated

00:42:28   which we'll talk about in a little while.

00:42:31   It's really great that they have seemed to listened

00:42:34   to what people were using the Mac Mini for.

00:42:36   So the old Mac Mini was $499 and it came from the idea,

00:42:40   I still think the 2014 Mac Mini was still rooted

00:42:44   in the idea that it's for switchers.

00:42:45   And we've talked about this on the show a bunch.

00:42:47   Switchers don't want a desktop.

00:42:49   Switchers want to go buy a MacBook or a MacBook Air

00:42:51   or a MacBook Pro.

00:42:53   Again, that's confusing and that's why that's a problem.

00:42:55   - Or an iPad.

00:42:56   - Probably not an iPad.

00:42:57   - Yep, definitely an iPad.

00:43:00   - Desktop switchers are not.

00:43:02   They still exist 'cause they're all emailing me right now,

00:43:04   but on the whole, it's a much smaller market

00:43:07   than it used to be.

00:43:08   And what has happened to the Mac Mini

00:43:09   is enthusiasts have looked at it and said,

00:43:11   hey, I need a Mac for something.

00:43:13   This thing's really small and quiet.

00:43:15   I'll just buy one to stick in my office or under my TV

00:43:18   or I'm gonna fill an entire rack of them with

00:43:21   because I'm Mac Stadium and this is what we do for a living.

00:43:25   It's such a versatile machine and Apple has created

00:43:29   a new version of it that speaks to that versatility.

00:43:33   So I've had this thing, we've talked about it before,

00:43:35   where the iMac from that cheap one

00:43:38   that I complained about last week in New York

00:43:40   to the most expensive 5K, there's an iMac for everybody.

00:43:44   If you want one, you can get one

00:43:46   with just the specs you want.

00:43:47   And the Mac Mini now falls into that as well.

00:43:50   I have some concerns about the low end one,

00:43:53   but the Mac Mini is now a much broader system

00:43:56   than it's ever been.

00:43:57   And I think that's a good thing

00:43:58   because people use them for anything you can imagine.

00:44:01   So that's all really good and that makes me happy.

00:44:03   - Steven, can you explain to me what,

00:44:07   This is gonna sound stupid, I'm sorry.

00:44:09   What's the difference between Core i5 and Core i7?

00:44:12   Is it just like the i7, it sounds bigger,

00:44:15   so I assume it's faster?

00:44:16   - It's two more, it's two more i's.

00:44:19   So as you move up from, let's just talk about i5 and i7,

00:44:23   depending on what exact CPU we're talking about,

00:44:26   the clock speeds are higher,

00:44:27   sometimes the core counts are higher,

00:44:29   again, depending on which ones we're talking about,

00:44:31   and things like the buses,

00:44:33   maybe they may be able to work on a faster bus,

00:44:36   They may have more built-in memory.

00:44:39   So the processors are better as you move up the line.

00:44:43   - I just sent you a screenshot of the setup

00:44:45   that I would like to have.

00:44:47   - Yeah, you bought the big boy there,

00:44:50   if you're looking at that one.

00:44:51   - I like that this Intel Core i7 has an Ottava Generazione.

00:44:56   - Yeah, it's in Italian.

00:44:57   I recognize the numbers.

00:44:59   That's good.

00:45:01   And the turbo boost are also faster as you move up.

00:45:04   What's weird about the Mac Mini,

00:45:06   To hit 799, they put in a quad-core i3,

00:45:11   which doesn't turbo boost,

00:45:14   so it doesn't ramp up its speed under load,

00:45:18   which means day-to-day use of the i3 would be totally fine.

00:45:21   If you're just buying a family computer,

00:45:23   the i3 is more than enough.

00:45:25   But if you want to do anything past that,

00:45:28   it's worth at least going to the i5

00:45:30   because you get the better speeds

00:45:33   and the turbo boost period.

00:45:35   So I went for the i5, Federico, you're looking at the i7.

00:45:39   For what you wanna do, doing a Plex server

00:45:41   and like transcoding stuff,

00:45:43   I would definitely spend the money on the i7.

00:45:45   Yeah, I think what you're looking at

00:45:48   makes sense for what you wanna do.

00:45:50   What's bananas is that you can spend $4,200 on a Mac mini.

00:45:55   That's a six-core i7, 64 gigabytes of RAM,

00:45:59   two terabyte SSD, 10 gig ethernet, like the iMac Pro.

00:46:03   That is a lot of computer, but it has,

00:46:08   like all Mac Minis, the integrated Intel graphics.

00:46:12   You cannot buy a Mac Mini,

00:46:16   you can't buy a Mac Mini with a discrete GPU.

00:46:19   - Is that bad?

00:46:20   - Struggled with this over the last,

00:46:22   you know, I guess since yesterday,

00:46:23   trying to understand where the Mac Mini fits

00:46:26   in relation to the other Macs,

00:46:27   especially when it comes to GPU performance.

00:46:30   And where I've landed is the Mac Mini is,

00:46:35   roughly speaking, the 13 inch MacBook Pro.

00:46:38   So I have a 13 inch MacBook Pro,

00:46:40   I have the fast processor in mind,

00:46:44   I've got 16 gigs of RAM in it,

00:46:46   I have a terabyte SSD,

00:46:49   but it still just has integrated graphics.

00:46:52   Now for what I do on that, it's totally fine,

00:46:54   it's mostly audio editing.

00:46:56   But if you wanna make a Mac Mini

00:46:57   into a video editing station,

00:46:59   and you want it to be as fast as you can get it,

00:47:02   that will require buying an external GPU

00:47:06   and connecting it via Thunderbolt.

00:47:07   I don't love that.

00:47:10   I wish that there would have been a Mac Mini

00:47:12   with a better graphics option, at least as like a CTO,

00:47:16   like hey, if you wanna spend all this money,

00:47:18   you can add a real GPU.

00:47:20   But I think I've softened on that over the last 24 hours,

00:47:24   really realizing that the Mac Mini is a pro machine

00:47:29   up to a certain point.

00:47:30   So if you're doing 3D rendering,

00:47:33   you're gonna buy an iMac Pro or next year a Mac Pro.

00:47:36   The Mac Mini isn't for that type of Pro.

00:47:39   But if you do what we do, which is like some automation,

00:47:42   a bunch of audio processing, some video stuff,

00:47:47   a loaded Mac Mini should totally get you through

00:47:49   because the loaded 13-inch MacBook Pro

00:47:51   can get you through that stuff too.

00:47:52   And so while I would like to see a Mac Mini

00:47:55   with a real GPU in it,

00:47:57   A, eGPU stuff's better than ever.

00:47:59   But B, I think it's fine, because I think they say

00:48:02   it's a pro machine, but that doesn't mean

00:48:04   it has to be for all pros, right?

00:48:06   Like there's really not a computer,

00:48:09   except maybe the iMac Pro, that is for every type

00:48:12   of Mac user working in a professional setting.

00:48:16   And I think I'm okay with it.

00:48:17   Like I wasn't initially, but I think that it's fine.

00:48:21   I think this is a great machine,

00:48:23   and I think that people who need a Mac Mini

00:48:26   have a lot to be thankful for today.

00:48:28   Way more than they had to be thankful two days ago.

00:48:31   And so yeah, Federica, you're looking at the i7 6-core.

00:48:34   I bought the i5 because I don't use Plex.

00:48:38   I'm not transcoding on mine.

00:48:39   Mine is really a file server and does some network stuff.

00:48:42   So I just kinda bought the middle of the road one

00:48:44   'cause I'm gonna use it for, you know.

00:48:45   My last one's a 2011, so I've gotten seven years out of it.

00:48:49   I like to get seven years out of this one,

00:48:51   so I just went middle of the road.

00:48:52   And I think it's gonna be a huge upgrade for me

00:48:54   and for anyone else who is using a Mac Mini at this point.

00:48:58   - All right, very nice.

00:48:59   So I'll wait until I actually have a new desk

00:49:04   and understand how much space I have available.

00:49:07   I will look into the, people in the chat room

00:49:10   are saying the Dell UltraSharp could be an option.

00:49:14   So I'll see which one I prefer.

00:49:17   I think that before, I think in the month of November,

00:49:24   I should be able to have my new setup in theory.

00:49:27   So we'll see.

00:49:27   - Yeah, that's gonna be exciting.

00:49:28   Keep us posted on that.

00:49:29   We'd like to see what you end up with.

00:49:31   And the Mac Mini's so great because you can just

00:49:33   tuck it under the display and it takes up very little space.

00:49:36   And I know people were claiming for it to be smaller.

00:49:40   I don't really care.

00:49:40   In fact, one thing they did do is that the ports

00:49:43   on the back, at least power and ethernet,

00:49:45   line up with where they do on the old system.

00:49:48   And so if you're like me and mine's underneath my TV,

00:49:52   I'm just gonna unplug my old one

00:49:53   and plug the new one in.

00:49:55   I'm not gonna disassemble my entire TV situation

00:49:59   to get to this thing.

00:50:00   Or if you're a Mac Stadium and you have hundreds

00:50:04   and hundreds or thousands of these things,

00:50:06   you can be able to slot them in more easily

00:50:08   without doing a lot of reconfiguration stuff,

00:50:10   which is a nice thing that using the same chassis provides.

00:50:14   So I'm glad that's the same.

00:50:18   Myke, you've talked on and off about a Mac Mini.

00:50:20   Is this enough to push you over the edge?

00:50:22   this is something I am going to do, I just am not sure when, because what I want to do with it is

00:50:29   like set up like a home server situation, which is more than just buying the machine, I need the time

00:50:34   to do it. So this is like a project that I will undertake at some point in the near future I think,

00:50:40   because it's like okay, I don't have a home server, there's a bunch of things I would want to do with one,

00:50:45   so I need to kind of like get the machine, sit down, set it all up, like work out how I want to

00:50:51   connect the thing? Do I want to connect it to the my iMac in some way so I can

00:50:56   have like network attack storage? What do I want to do? And then I'm gonna

00:51:00   work it out. I think we should talk about this at some point. Yes. We can help Myke

00:51:04   understand what he wants to do with a with a home server and then I'll and

00:51:09   then I'm probably gonna go for it. Cool. Yeah I'm happy to dive into that with

00:51:13   you. Mine will be here next week. I ordered it yesterday so maybe I'll

00:51:18   unbox it on the show next week. That's what people want to hear. Unboxing Mac Mini.

00:51:22   Yeah, yeah. This just sounds really good. Real quickly before we move into iPads, I

00:51:27   think we should mention that the MacBook Pro is going to be updated next month, air quotes,

00:51:36   with an option to put the Vega Mobile Graphics chipset in it. So this is a derivative of

00:51:42   what's in the iMac Pro. This has been shipping in a bunch of other notebooks. Apple's late

00:51:48   to the game on this, but they say that the new graphic options will deliver 60% faster

00:51:53   performance for video editing, 3D design, and rendering workloads.

00:51:58   So I looked into this yesterday because I knew this chipset existed but I wasn't super

00:52:02   familiar with it, and seeing some videos on YouTube and reading some articles, if you

00:52:06   buy a MacBook Pro with this in it starting next month, it is going to be drastically

00:52:11   faster for GPU-based tasks.

00:52:15   I assume it's only gonna be in the 15.

00:52:17   I couldn't find anything saying that for sure,

00:52:19   but again, looking at what else is on the market,

00:52:21   these things are big and hot,

00:52:22   so they end up in 15-inch notebooks.

00:52:24   I'm sure it'll hurt the battery life.

00:52:26   But if you need a MacBook Pro as a video workstation,

00:52:30   your life's getting ready to be a lot better

00:52:32   if you buy one of these.

00:52:33   So we'll keep an eye on this when they come out.

00:52:35   I'm sure there'll be a review of it somewhere,

00:52:38   but I just wanted to point that out,

00:52:40   'cause it was buried in the MacBook Air press release,

00:52:43   and now it's on the MacBook Pro page.

00:52:45   but sort of a quieter story.

00:52:49   And then there was no iMac,

00:52:50   and the iMac,

00:52:51   assumingly would use the same chips

00:52:53   that are in the Mac Mini,

00:52:54   or related chips where you have quad core and six core.

00:52:59   We talked last week about what would make me happy

00:53:01   with the iMac getting rid of the non-retina,

00:53:03   getting rid of the spinning drives.

00:53:05   This makes me feel good about the spinning drive going away,

00:53:07   because assumingly the iMacs will all move

00:53:09   to the T2 architecture as well.

00:53:11   But they didn't make the cut this time.

00:53:14   My guess is that they had a lot of stuff going on

00:53:17   in the Mac team and they just didn't get these done in time.

00:53:21   So maybe we'll see these as a press release at some point,

00:53:23   probably after the new year.

00:53:25   We had some people on Twitter asking,

00:53:27   like hey, I've been in the market for an iMac,

00:53:29   what do I do?

00:53:30   The iMacs now are good.

00:53:33   I would say if you're especially looking at the 5K

00:53:37   and you can hold off,

00:53:39   My guess is that they would be six core machines.

00:53:44   My hope would be that they would have better cooling

00:53:46   because even the Retina 5K iMac now can be loud.

00:53:51   So if you can get a high-end iMac,

00:53:54   and maybe wait, I don't normally say that,

00:53:56   but I feel like the next revision could be a big deal.

00:53:59   Now if you're looking at a 21 inch, a 4K,

00:54:02   they'll be better, but I don't think they have

00:54:04   as much ground to make up, so maybe if you need to do that,

00:54:07   smaller one go for it but I think if you're in the market for a 5k iMac I

00:54:11   would hold on until the new ones are out.

00:54:15   Yeah it's interesting to me I haven't done this it's like how long is it gonna

00:54:19   be this is there is a frustration now or so well now we have the next thing to to

00:54:25   keep asking about it's like oh man why can't we just be chill on the Mac

00:54:29   servers like where's the Mac Macs now like that's gonna be the next

00:54:32   thing when we're four years away and there's no new iMac. That'd be fun. No?

00:54:37   No. It'd be the opposite of fun.

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00:55:47   The main event. Everyone was waiting for it. I think it paid off. New iPads. These new

00:55:54   iPads they're very exciting gentlemen I am I said this on upgrade I'm thinking

00:56:00   about it and I think I mean it I am more excited for these iPads than I was for

00:56:05   the iPhone 10 no because the iPad is the device I care about most anyway right

00:56:11   it is how you know and I have wanted new hardware for a while especially on the

00:56:18   larger size and they have effectively delivered in every thing that I was

00:56:26   looking for and over delivered in certain places like for example face ID

00:56:30   face ID working in all four orientations seems like magic to me I yes I was

00:56:36   hoping at best that we would get two right and fearing that it would just be

00:56:40   one yeah I saw it I saw it working upside down and it was just it just

00:56:47   worked like nothing worked. So we're assuming that the difference is whatever's in the A12X

00:56:52   to do this right? Because I mean that's my assumption. Why can't the iPhones do it? I

00:56:58   think they said in the keynote it was a combination of making changes to the face ID sensors and

00:57:07   the neural network. So it seems like it's hard, I mean that's all hardware I guess like

00:57:12   and then the software that runs in the neural engine which is like not software but is software

00:57:16   So it seems like this is more than just the processor.

00:57:21   People say both things with the iPhone.

00:57:26   I wish it was just more forgiving,

00:57:27   so if you were laying down and the phone's upright,

00:57:29   it would work.

00:57:30   - Yeah, that's all I want.

00:57:31   I don't need to use my iPhone upside down.

00:57:33   - But it's a must on the iPad,

00:57:36   and so I'm glad they've gotten it right.

00:57:38   - Yeah, it would have been a disaster, right?

00:57:40   Because neither orientation would have been right.

00:57:45   like there would have been problems with either.

00:57:47   So I'm super excited that it's all of them.

00:57:51   The new design is really exciting.

00:57:53   I love the flat edges.

00:57:54   It looks so good to me.

00:57:56   It's funny because like this was the design

00:57:59   that wouldn't go away, right?

00:58:01   Like on the iPhone, right?

00:58:03   Which started with the four

00:58:04   and went all the way up to the SE.

00:58:07   And still is there, right?

00:58:08   With like the chamfered edges and the flat edges.

00:58:10   But there's just something about on the iPad

00:58:12   that looks really freaking good.

00:58:14   and I'm very excited about it.

00:58:16   Federico, how does it feel to hold though?

00:58:18   - I was thinking about this, about the design.

00:58:24   I was kind of worried and I wrote this in my--

00:58:26   - I know, look at you, you're so cool,

00:58:28   your first impressions.

00:58:29   Like you're like a pro blogger now.

00:58:31   - Yeah.

00:58:32   Well, something like that.

00:58:35   I was concerned that it was gonna look and feel chunky

00:58:41   to hold.

00:58:44   But in practice, it's really nice.

00:58:47   I feel like the flat edges, they contribute

00:58:52   to increasing the grip of the device,

00:58:55   which is important when you have bezels so small.

00:59:00   I feel like it's easier to hold.

00:59:02   And also it's got this, I was thinking about the look.

00:59:05   It's got this look that is a mix of like

00:59:07   the iPhone 4 aesthetic, but also this kind of

00:59:11   70s type retro look. It reminds me of an old Sony product. Why is that? Almost like it's

00:59:18   got the Sony aesthetic. I don't know, but I was thinking about it like why do you why

00:59:23   do I associate this look not just with the iPhone 4, but also maybe it's the rounded

00:59:28   edges of the screen. And okay, go for it. Hold on. Hold on. I looked into it. And I

00:59:35   And I remembered that when Apple went to trial against Samsung, you remember that a bunch

00:59:44   of iPhone prototypes came out?

00:59:47   One of them was called the Joni iPhone.

00:59:50   Joni as a play on Sony, but also Joni Ive.

00:59:55   So the Joni prototype, it was made to resemble old Sony electronic, like an old Sony gadget

01:00:03   from the 70s or the 80s.

01:00:05   And it's got that square look, that flat edge and the curve and the camera bump.

01:00:11   And that is why I it reminds me of a Sony product of a golden age.

01:00:17   My word. Look at the Joni iPhone.

01:00:19   Yeah. So so that's why.

01:00:22   And the speaker grill and the cutouts, like it's very reminiscent of that,

01:00:26   which is kind of funny to think about our Apple prototypes, all of these designs.

01:00:31   and eventually they sort of come back, either for practical purposes or for fashion purposes

01:00:36   or just because they look good. Anyway, it looks really nice in practice. It doesn't

01:00:41   feel thick, it doesn't feel chunky, it actually feels impossible.

01:00:45   Yeah, I cannot fathom how they have made the iPad thinner. I can't work it out.

01:00:52   The big one really makes an impression because you're used to have this huge tablet and now

01:00:59   Now it's smaller and lighter and thinner.

01:01:02   And it's very nice.

01:01:05   It feels very nice.

01:01:07   The small one, the 11-inch one.

01:01:10   At first sight, it kind of looks like one of those old Android tablets

01:01:15   that didn't have a 4x3 form factor aspect ratio

01:01:19   because it's longer in landscape, essentially.

01:01:24   It's wider.

01:01:26   It looks kind of weird in photos.

01:01:28   I think it's fine in practice.

01:01:31   - With this change, do you know if it shows apps

01:01:35   in the full compact, like in the full slice class?

01:01:39   - I don't think it does.

01:01:41   I don't think it does.

01:01:42   At least not in the simulator, it does not.

01:01:44   Yeah, I know.

01:01:46   - So I've ordered both, right?

01:01:49   And I'm interested to try them out to see if like,

01:01:53   I actually do still want both in my life.

01:01:55   'Cause everyone that I know that has been,

01:01:56   including you, including Marco, has said to me and Jason as well, like, you're only going

01:02:01   to need the 12-9 now because it's small enough and light enough. But I'm still, I still want

01:02:06   to see it for myself. Like I'm still kind of holding out reservation because it's like,

01:02:11   I have a 13 inch MacBook Pro, right? If I see a 15 inch, the 15 inch is like a battleship

01:02:16   still and this is still kind of the same difference, right? It's still like two inches of difference.

01:02:22   So I'm keen to see how it ends up working out. No, of course it was blown out of proportion

01:02:26   with the 12.9 inch iPad Pro because they always had the bigger bezels, right?

01:02:30   So it's always been like massively larger than than the other iPad size,

01:02:35   you know, like especially with the 10.5 because screen got bigger,

01:02:39   but the bezels got smaller.

01:02:40   And I'm super excited to see what the 12.9 looks like.

01:02:44   But I'm still unconvinced that like for the way that I use the iPad Pro,

01:02:48   that I will only want one of them.

01:02:50   So I need to see it for myself.

01:02:51   And the only way I can do that is by ordering them both.

01:02:54   Mm hmm. That makes sense.

01:02:56   So anyway, we were talking about the design, it looks good and it feels good when you hold

01:03:03   the iPad.

01:03:06   So I want to talk about quickly the compatibility mode that a bunch of people were talking about

01:03:15   on Twitter and actually there's a couple of videos that Apple published under the TechTalks

01:03:20   channel, sort of developer videos that you can watch.

01:03:24   especially the first one, it's an eight minute video that explains how developers can adapt

01:03:29   their apps for the new iPad Pros. And one of the changes is that the iPad Pro, the 11

01:03:36   inch, so the new 10.5, essentially, does not have the same aspect ratio as the old one.

01:03:45   So if your app has basically been hardcoded to check for that aspect ratio, it's not going

01:03:52   to work well with the new safe area insets approach that Apple has been pushing since

01:03:58   the iPhone 10 days with the virtual home indicator.

01:04:00   So this is kind of what we saw with the Apple Watch too, right?

01:04:03   Where like, because the screen edges are curved, there's different considerations needed.

01:04:09   But also the problem on iOS devices is that you have this virtual home indicator that

01:04:15   can conflict with tap bars.

01:04:19   if you code a custom tab bar that doesn't use the native APIs and you don't use storyboards

01:04:23   and all that.

01:04:25   So the thing about these new iPads in Split View, because you can put multiple apps in

01:04:33   Split View, let's assume that you're using one app that has been updated for the new

01:04:39   iPads and has been linked against the iOS 12.1 SDK.

01:04:45   So one app has done all of the things they're supposed to do to work well on the new iPad

01:04:50   Pro, but the other app in Split View hasn't.

01:04:53   So you're using an app that's been updated and an app that has not been updated.

01:04:59   The result on the new iPad Pros is compatibility mode, which is essentially a punishment for

01:05:05   the app that has been updated, because the old one that is causing problems will be put

01:05:12   in this kind of letterbox mode.

01:05:16   So there's Apple is going to force a safe area

01:05:20   inset on both apps.

01:05:22   So even the new one that has been updated will be

01:05:27   put into this safe area

01:05:29   mode, this compatibility mode,

01:05:32   so that it can work with the other app that has not been updated.

01:05:38   So you will see, I think it's going to look like a black bar,

01:05:41   like a thin black bar all around both apps

01:05:45   so that the virtual home indicator can be unobstructed

01:05:49   by the other app.

01:05:51   Which means that developers better update their apps

01:05:56   for new iPad Pros.

01:05:58   But it also means that as long as you have an app

01:06:01   that has not been updated

01:06:02   and you try to use that in Split View,

01:06:04   looking at you, Google,

01:06:05   every other app will suffer

01:06:08   if you try to put that app in Split View

01:06:10   with the old one.

01:06:13   Based on what I heard from first-hand and second-hand

01:06:20   sources and friends who worked on this stuff,

01:06:24   this was a lot of work.

01:06:25   Like, it's been months in the making.

01:06:29   Like, people were working on this stuff many months ago.

01:06:33   And it's a lot of work to come up

01:06:35   with this compatibility mode and find a way

01:06:38   to make it work easily for users,

01:06:43   but also reliably, and to find the solution

01:06:48   that works for old apps and apps that have also been updated.

01:06:52   It sounds easy, but under the hood,

01:06:54   I don't think it was easy.

01:06:55   So it's fascinating to me.

01:06:57   - Yeah, it's gonna be a shame.

01:06:59   - If they had done a different screen size,

01:07:01   if they had kept the X and Y axis like the same proportions,

01:07:06   would this have been a problem

01:07:07   if they just scaled it up to like whatever it is.

01:07:10   - I think it would have been a problem to the extent that

01:07:13   the problem on the iPad is the split view.

01:07:16   It's that you're using two apps at the same time

01:07:20   and one of them can be all good and updated

01:07:24   and the other is not.

01:07:26   And the virtual home indicator

01:07:27   is sitting in the middle of them.

01:07:30   So because there's that indicator,

01:07:33   it becomes a problem even for the app

01:07:35   that has been updated for the new iPad Pro.

01:07:38   So even if the screen was the same--

01:07:40   - So it's gonna be on both then,

01:07:42   it's gonna be on the 11 and the 12,

01:07:44   nine will have the same problem, right?

01:07:46   Because of the home indicator.

01:07:47   - Yeah, because you have that virtual,

01:07:49   we have the home indicator,

01:07:51   which is kind of long actually on the iPad.

01:07:53   You have that one in the middle,

01:07:56   so that causes problems.

01:07:58   Hopefully this will be resolved quickly,

01:08:00   but still this compatibility mode is in place

01:08:03   for all of those old apps.

01:08:05   Well, I guess we can, you know, it's like one of those things, I think it will take

01:08:10   time but it will happen. Like there's still apps that I use every day for the TELUS Max

01:08:14   that I can see haven't been updated, right? Like this is just, if you're on the bleeding

01:08:19   edge of iOS hardware, this is something that you're used to by now. Like it just takes

01:08:24   time, but developers get there. It's like, Google will be the joke for a while, but we

01:08:28   know that they'll do it, they've always done it, it just takes them a long time, so we'll

01:08:33   will just have to live with it until then. I want to talk about a couple of spec stuff.

01:08:38   We already know the A12X is super powerful, like it's amazing, more powerful than basically

01:08:44   anything else, right? I was listening to ATP live last night because I'm on Eastern Time

01:08:50   so I could do that and they were kind of joking about how the fact that this iPad, the A12X,

01:08:55   is more powerful than any laptop that Apple ships right now. It's this obscene amount

01:09:00   of power. I want to get into a minute of comparing those because I know Stephen has a really

01:09:05   good analogy that I want us to talk about. But I want to talk about RAM because there's

01:09:10   been some stuff about the RAM in these machines. Federico, what's going on here?

01:09:15   Again, based on what I'm hearing, all the non-1TB models, so 64, 256, 512, they have

01:09:33   4GB of RAM.

01:09:34   The 1TB model has 6GB of RAM, and my understanding is that this was necessary to handle that

01:09:43   amount of storage.

01:09:44   to have more memory to manage the fact that you're using a 1TB iPad.

01:09:50   Apple of course is not talking about RAM, but people have been digging into the code

01:09:54   and Steve Childensmith found code strings that suggested that the new iPad Pros had

01:10:02   60GB of RAM, but what I'm hearing and some other people are also hearing is that that's

01:10:08   only for the one terabyte model and it was necessary for storage

01:10:13   management essentially. So I want to run Geekbench of course on these

01:10:20   things. If I'll end up with a one terabyte version I don't know yet.

01:10:26   But yeah it would have been nice to know but Apple is never gonna talk about RAM

01:10:31   publicly. Do you think that RAM will make an effective daily impact?

01:10:37   that you need it for the storage but do you think it's gonna make the actual

01:10:41   iPad run any differently? I don't know I think it will be I don't think it will I

01:10:48   think you would be hard-pressed to find apps on the on the iPad Pro that require

01:10:54   more more than four gigs. Also in the future I don't think Apple will ever do

01:11:00   something like only the one terabyte 2018 iPad Pro can access this feature

01:11:06   like I could see them limit certain functionalities based on generation not

01:11:13   based on storage size of a specific generation so I think it'll be fine.

01:11:18   If it's like the RAM and the 10 R versus the 10 S then it but it's needed for storage

01:11:24   management which I don't know if I fully understand then in practice it probably

01:11:28   won't make a difference right like if they've done it because they need it

01:11:31   from a technical perspective changes are side by side you would never notice

01:11:36   "Whoa, this one only has four, it does this, but this one has six, so it can do this other

01:11:40   thing."

01:11:41   I would imagine in practice they're effectively identical.

01:11:47   So let's talk about the power of these machines.

01:11:50   They're incredibly powerful, right?

01:11:52   And can it be used to the full effect of the power?

01:11:59   I don't think I mean, I think it's kind of obvious that right now

01:12:02   you're only seeing half of the of the bigger picture for the iPad,

01:12:09   because there's the big missing piece is the software.

01:12:12   One of my disappointments from this event is that we didn't see any

01:12:17   any pro app by Apple for the iPad Pro.

01:12:21   We just got the hardware.

01:12:23   So there's a lot riding on next year's WWDC

01:12:27   and what Apple is going to do in terms of iPad software.

01:12:30   And if they're going to show that these powerful iPad Pros

01:12:33   can run things like Logic or Xcode or Final Cut, for example.

01:12:40   I think right now, yes, you can buy a new iPad Pro

01:12:43   and you can run reminders on it, which is fine.

01:12:47   You can run Spark email.

01:12:50   Not to say that those apps are--

01:12:52   it's not a criticism for those apps.

01:12:54   It's just--

01:12:55   They're not going to grant everything to a halt.

01:12:57   No.

01:12:58   I mean, I had a demo of the new Pixelmator photo app, which

01:13:04   now we're talking about this prosumer type product that

01:13:10   uses machine learning to apply modifications to photos.

01:13:14   Like, really powerful stuff.

01:13:15   You can have multiple layers.

01:13:17   You can do all kinds of edits.

01:13:20   But I still think--

01:13:22   And of course, Photoshop.

01:13:24   Photoshop is coming to iPad.

01:13:26   - That's no joke, right?

01:13:27   Like that is gonna be a huge deal.

01:13:28   - Next year, we're still talking 2019 for all of these apps.

01:13:32   So I think the ecosystem of iPad software,

01:13:37   I think it's grown over the past few years.

01:13:40   - Oh, it has.

01:13:41   - I don't agree with most people that I see on Twitter

01:13:47   saying that iPad apps are still like iPhone apps

01:13:52   or mini apps, I disagree with that.

01:13:54   I think things have changed a lot

01:13:56   and people have a short memory.

01:13:57   - But they are sitting in the middle right now.

01:14:00   - They're in the middle, yes.

01:14:01   - They were like iPhone apps,

01:14:02   but they are getting better,

01:14:03   there's a lot of powerful stuff,

01:14:05   but we're not at the Mac level yet.

01:14:07   - Not yet.

01:14:08   - Yet, we will, I think it's happening.

01:14:11   - I also think it's gonna happen

01:14:12   and I think next year is gonna be a turning point,

01:14:16   both for third-party developers and for Apple.

01:14:19   At least that's what I wanna believe.

01:14:20   Well, or I would at least say it's either next WWDC or not at all, right?

01:14:28   Like everything that's building to it, if they don't make a compelling story for

01:14:33   some kind of professional iPad development stuff or just big advancements to the

01:14:39   iPads in iOS, which can make it clear that you could make more powerful stuff, I feel

01:14:45   like it might not happen.

01:14:46   Right.

01:14:46   because you've got this hardware, which is as good as it's ever been, you have companies

01:14:51   like Adobe investing heavily into iPad, that if you don't make your changes to iOS to kind

01:14:58   of indicate an advancement like we had in iOS 11, I just don't know when you would do

01:15:04   it, right?

01:15:05   Yeah, I mean, Apple can keep doing the demos of AR apps and photo editing all the time,

01:15:13   at the end of the day, people, if you're gonna sell a computer, you can sell it in two ways.

01:15:18   Either it's a gaming computer, so people buy it to play video games with good graphics.

01:15:23   Xbox One S performance, right? Yeah, right. That was super weird when they...

01:15:27   Yeah, sure. It was very strange. Like, okay, great, but

01:15:31   like where's the controller? Exactly.

01:15:32   So like, we're really happy. So, either you sell a gaming PC or you sell

01:15:36   a computer that people can use for work. Because there's only so much AR that you can do, you

01:15:41   Apple will disagree with you, my friend.

01:15:45   Sure. I want to see somebody that doesn't work at an AR company using AR stuff, at least

01:15:53   for more than three hours a day. Please let me know if you're one of those people and

01:15:58   you don't work in an AR startup or Apple or Google. So either you sell a gaming PC or

01:16:05   or you sell a computer that is for work.

01:16:08   And work apps mean stuff like heavy audio editing

01:16:12   or serious 3D graphics or programming

01:16:15   or like all these complex tasks

01:16:17   that some apps do exist on the iPad for this stuff,

01:16:22   but they're not as powerful as what you can get

01:16:24   on a PC or on a Mac.

01:16:26   And that is a simple argument.

01:16:28   Is it as powerful as what you can get on a desktop computer?

01:16:32   No, not yet.

01:16:34   So it's gonna happen next year.

01:16:37   Things seem to be moving in that direction.

01:16:39   Is the transition gonna be completed by next year?

01:16:42   I don't think so.

01:16:43   We're gonna get, you know, Photoshop,

01:16:45   the first version of Photoshop on iPad

01:16:47   is coming out next year.

01:16:49   I think this is a long process,

01:16:51   but it needs to start at some point.

01:16:53   And that point seems to be 2019 so far.

01:16:58   But we don't know when, we don't know how,

01:16:59   we don't know if Apple will participate in this transition,

01:17:03   that other companies seem to foresee coming on the horizon.

01:17:07   Does Apple also see this transition happening

01:17:10   with iPads actually turning into computers?

01:17:14   Maybe, USB-C seems to be a pretty fascinating indication

01:17:17   of that, we can talk about it maybe.

01:17:19   - Let's talk about USB-C, but before we do,

01:17:21   Steven, there is an analogy that you've made,

01:17:23   which is really cool, and I want you to say it here too.

01:17:26   - Yes, I talked about this on a members-only podcast

01:17:30   we have here at Relay, but the iPad Pro feels like a supercar to me in the sense that you've

01:17:36   built something that is incredibly powerful, like the technology is just cutting edge,

01:17:42   it looks great, like this looks like an exciting product, and it's an aspirational product,

01:17:47   but one that maybe struggles in like everyday life. Like some problems that some supercars

01:17:53   have is you have all this power but you can't put it down on the street. Like you just...

01:17:58   - Yeah, you can go 200 miles an hour,

01:18:00   but the laws stop you from driving it that fast.

01:18:03   - Yeah, or the physics of the world keep you

01:18:07   from using all that power,

01:18:09   because you just can't put it down appropriately.

01:18:11   And that's how I feel about the iPad Pro,

01:18:14   is like, the hardware, this hardware looks incredible,

01:18:17   it looks really good, I love the new industrial design,

01:18:19   the A12X seems bananas, Apple keeps throwing shade

01:18:22   at Intel, saying, hey, we're faster than 90-something percent

01:18:26   of notebooks sold last year.

01:18:28   that includes almost every MacBook and MacBook Pro.

01:18:31   But I think that's about Apple building the case

01:18:34   to move to ARM and I feel like every time

01:18:36   they have a new chip and an iPad,

01:18:37   it's like oh yeah, that could totally run on my laptop,

01:18:39   it'd be fine.

01:18:41   But for me at least, and I think for a lot of people,

01:18:44   I think even the two of you,

01:18:46   the software doesn't unlock all that power.

01:18:49   We can talk about USB-C specific examples,

01:18:51   but you know, and looking at Photoshop,

01:18:53   that's like the first thing that I've seen

01:18:55   that I could use, like okay,

01:18:57   this would really take advantage of

01:19:00   what this machine has to offer.

01:19:03   And there are other high-end apps

01:19:06   that sort of tap into that too,

01:19:08   but most of the time, I don't need all that power.

01:19:11   And I feel like I don't have access to it

01:19:14   because of some fundamental things in iOS

01:19:18   that need to change.

01:19:19   There was that report that I think Germin had

01:19:23   that iOS 12 had a bunch of stuff in it

01:19:25   that got delayed or got pushed off

01:19:27   because they were focusing on stability

01:19:30   and performance increases on older devices.

01:19:33   And they hit those two goals.

01:19:35   Like, iOS 12 is way nicer on older devices

01:19:39   and seems to be far less buggy than iOS 10 or 11 ever were.

01:19:43   So now, like to your point, Myke, it is time,

01:19:48   like WWDC 2019, it is time to see

01:19:52   what Apple can do with all this iPad hardware.

01:19:55   And if they want it to be a computer replacement

01:19:59   for even more people,

01:20:01   'cause the iPad is a computer replacement,

01:20:03   100% for lots of people.

01:20:05   And it could be for lots more people

01:20:07   who just don't realize it yet.

01:20:09   But if they wanna move into the next bigger circle out

01:20:13   from that center, they need it to do more things.

01:20:18   They need it to do things that it does now

01:20:20   in a more efficient manner.

01:20:22   And that is a story that only Apple can tell, right?

01:20:26   Like third party app developers are handcuffed by iOS

01:20:31   in a lot of different ways, that they aren't on the Mac,

01:20:33   that they aren't on Windows.

01:20:35   And Apple needs to look at those restrictions

01:20:37   and really work in a way that developers can tap

01:20:41   into what this iPad can do.

01:20:43   And I'm super optimistic about that

01:20:46   because in the hardware we're getting,

01:20:49   it's clear that Apple is paying attention

01:20:52   what people want. Things like a pencil that always charges and is connected with you.

01:20:57   We're going to talk about the pencil again in a second. An adjustable smart keyboard.

01:21:00   USB-C. These are things that pros want out of an iPad. And so they've said yes, yes,

01:21:05   yes to all these hardware things. I hope they say yes, yes, yes to all the software things

01:21:10   we want as well. And I'm optimistic about that until proven wrong.

01:21:15   One of the key things that you can say, okay, that there's clearly a difference in the way

01:21:18   that they think about the iPad is that they've moved from Lightning to USB-C.

01:21:21   Like that is a sign of something, right, that seems positive to me. It's like,

01:21:27   okay, we've put an actual computer connector on this thing now. Federico,

01:21:31   what do you think USB-C actually means for the iPad line? Like what can we do

01:21:35   right now? What can't it do right now? Like I'm interested in your thoughts on this.

01:21:39   Right now it seems to be mostly an evolution of what we already had before.

01:21:47   for, so you can do camera import. You can connect to high resolution displays and Apple

01:21:55   seemed to suggest that you can do multiple of those things at once, like if you have

01:22:00   an adapter you can connect to display and also do camera import.

01:22:04   It does what USB-C should do, right? Like it does the training.

01:22:07   You can use it as a, you can use your iPad as a power bank for your iPhone by charging

01:22:12   other devices.

01:22:13   Which is so hilarious, but brilliant. It's brilliant!

01:22:16   I was on a plane and I had my iPad fully charged and I thought, you know, it would be nice

01:22:20   if I could actually charge my new Sony headphones, which have USB-C from my iPad.

01:22:25   So that would be kind of nice.

01:22:28   I think, or I should say I want to believe, that USB-C is a sign of more to come in terms

01:22:38   of adding proper I/O support to the iPad Pro line.

01:22:43   I think it's ridiculous, honestly, that you still cannot connect a USB-C drive to the

01:22:50   iPad Pro and have it show up as a location in the Files app.

01:22:55   Especially now.

01:22:56   Especially now.

01:22:57   I mentioned this on Connected multiple times at this point.

01:23:01   And that's like obvious material for iOS 13 or even an update to iOS 12.

01:23:09   Our friend Steve Tradt and Smith on Twitter is actually making this argument right now

01:23:13   that it is extremely trivial to write this kind of disk access on iOS with the existing

01:23:20   APIs and frameworks that are available to read stuff from a USB drive and give it native

01:23:28   UI in files.

01:23:30   I'm pretty sure that that would solve most of the problems that people have when it comes

01:23:34   to file management and storage and backups on iOS and the iPad.

01:23:39   But also, right now, if you try and use USB-C with an external monitor, my understanding

01:23:45   is that it basically treats the second monitor as a window for specific portions of your

01:23:54   content.

01:23:55   So if you're using iMovie, you can see the video on the big display.

01:24:01   or if you use a keynote, you can mirror the presentation on the display.

01:24:04   It's not like you're actually adding a second display to the iPad.

01:24:08   You're just putting some parts of your content onto the second display.

01:24:14   So it's not like on a Mac that you actually have a display management screen in preferences.

01:24:19   And you can see I'm using two displays with my computer now.

01:24:23   That seems kind of obvious that in the future you will be able to use your iPad Pro

01:24:29   on the go or on a desk.

01:24:30   And then when you sit down and you connect a USB-C cable,

01:24:34   you're going to have your iPad Pro and you're going to have a second display

01:24:36   running iPad apps, but much bigger.

01:24:40   Does that mean that those apps will use some kind of windowing system?

01:24:44   Does it mean that you're going to have split view at a much bigger size

01:24:49   with perhaps multiple tabs for each app in the split view?

01:24:53   Does it mean that you're going to do multi app split view,

01:24:57   like three apps at once or four apps at once on the big display, that stuff could be done with,

01:25:04   in theory, with these iPads and that kind of CPU and USB-C and an external display, but it's not

01:25:11   possible right now on these iPads. So my interpretation of USB-C is that it's a first step

01:25:21   to take the iPad more seriously as a computer.

01:25:25   By giving it, it's a strong message

01:25:27   to give it a different connector than the phone.

01:25:30   It's sort of moving away from that idea

01:25:33   that we've been hearing since 2010

01:25:35   that the iPad is a big phone.

01:25:37   Now the iPad shares the same connector

01:25:39   that is on a MacBook.

01:25:41   And that's a powerful message saying,

01:25:44   this is not an, almost like you're saying,

01:25:46   this is not an iOS device anymore,

01:25:48   this is a computer that runs iOS.

01:25:50   And that is just, I feel like the connector

01:25:55   is an example of that theory.

01:25:58   But right now it's a theory.

01:25:59   - Yeah, it's a powerful message

01:26:02   once they actually say something.

01:26:03   - Exactly.

01:26:04   - Right, right.

01:26:04   It's like they've rolled out a big stage

01:26:06   and they haven't gone out there yet to tell the story.

01:26:09   And the possibility is there, but they haven't done it.

01:26:14   What I keep thinking about is,

01:26:16   let's just say all this magical stuff is coming in iOS 13.

01:26:20   What if it had come out in iOS 12 and we were now,

01:26:24   you know, three or four months into iOS 12

01:26:26   and you can do all this stuff

01:26:28   but the lightning port's the problem.

01:26:29   Right, oh, I can mount an SD card

01:26:31   or bring an external drive in

01:26:33   or I can run more apps at once or like files.

01:26:35   It's like a real file manager.

01:26:37   But you have to deal with lightning adapters

01:26:40   and lightning is slow and annoying.

01:26:43   You know, we would all be scrambling for USB-C

01:26:47   and be really glad it's here

01:26:48   and it would be a more complete story.

01:26:51   But instead we're in this weird world of like,

01:26:53   well, it seems like they're gonna do something.

01:26:56   They have all the cards lined up,

01:26:58   but they haven't actually executed yet.

01:27:00   So I agree with you, it's a big statement,

01:27:03   but they need to finish the statement.

01:27:06   - What's that?

01:27:07   - I'm thinking of the meme of Charlie from

01:27:11   It's Always Sun in Philadelphia, of him having all the--

01:27:14   (laughing)

01:27:16   with all the paper on the wall and the strings landed.

01:27:19   Yeah, this is how it is.

01:27:20   This is what it's like trying to understand

01:27:22   where the iPad's going.

01:27:23   It's like there are all these signals

01:27:25   and we're just trying to find a link between them.

01:27:26   - Look at the signs, it's USB-C and all these things.

01:27:29   Yeah, everything is a theory at this point.

01:27:33   - We added, oh, so you actually get

01:27:37   a 18 watt USB-C charging brick in the box now.

01:27:40   Which is great. - Nice, okay.

01:27:41   - That's great, hooray, that's what USB brought us.

01:27:44   So we added USB-C, we lost the headphone jack.

01:27:47   Yeah.

01:27:48   It's a problem for, for example, for DJs or, you know, people who...

01:27:55   People that watch movies on planes.

01:27:57   People who watch movies on planes, people who make music, people who use the headphone

01:28:01   jack for all kinds of creative purposes.

01:28:04   It's a problem and you're going to have to buy a dongle.

01:28:07   And this is basically the same discussion we had when this stuff happened on the Mac

01:28:13   before. Now it's happening on the iPad Pro. So it's a shame I feel like the

01:28:19   iPhone jack was more needed on the iPad than the iPhone. Personally this is not a

01:28:24   doesn't affect me. I know that it affects other people and so I get why they're

01:28:28   gonna complain about it. So I get it. I just find it frustrating. So I have

01:28:34   AirPods. I don't use them on planes for reasons we spoke about recently because

01:28:38   you drop them and they're gone forever. We may have trouble hearing them. They're not

01:28:42   loud enough that's that's another big problem and so I was on several flights

01:28:47   last week and I used my lightning earbuds and they were fine so not loud

01:28:53   enough but at least I'm not gonna lose them and I could transition from

01:28:57   listening to a podcast on my phone to watching something on my iPad just

01:29:01   unplug it from my phone and plug it into my iPad now that's not gonna be possible

01:29:06   Apple does sell a USB C to 3.5 millimeter adapter so I guess I'm just

01:29:12   gonna have dongles for this now but the thing that that's really bugs me is like

01:29:17   the iPad is so flexible because people use it in so many different ways and a

01:29:22   headphone jack like whatever it's old-fashioned but like a you can't tell

01:29:27   me it's because of room in the iPad Pro like it's not about room it's about

01:29:31   wanting to make the statement and they think that that people have moved on and

01:29:35   I just find it frustrating because it limits the flexibility of the device if

01:29:40   If it had two USB-C ports, then I could have power and headphone, but I got a tweet or

01:29:46   an email from somebody saying they work as an AV tech in a theater and they use iPads

01:29:51   to play music and stuff during productions.

01:29:54   That was great because you could have it charging because in a production environment you want

01:29:58   power to all of your devices, but now that's not feasible.

01:30:04   I just find it frustrating.

01:30:06   I think it's gonna be something that I definitely miss more on my iPad than I did on my phone,

01:30:11   just because I use my iPad in various ways that I don't always use my iPhone XS.

01:30:16   So it's a bummer.

01:30:19   It's the saddest thing about this hardware to me by far, and it's gonna take some getting

01:30:23   used to.

01:30:25   I'm not gonna let it ruin it, you know?

01:30:27   Like I've been thinking about it, like I'm annoyed, but I'm not gonna let this ruin it.

01:30:30   I just need to work out what my situation, like what am I gonna do, right?

01:30:34   'cause I bought a dongle,

01:30:36   which I'll put on my over ear headphones

01:30:38   that I keep in my travel backpack.

01:30:40   So I just keep it on there.

01:30:41   But if I use that dongle, I can't charge at the same time.

01:30:44   So do I need a different dongle that maybe I could charge?

01:30:47   But I guess it's gonna be a long-term thing for me.

01:30:50   I don't really wanna get Bluetooth over ear headphones,

01:30:55   really, 'cause I don't wanna have to have another thing

01:30:58   that I need to think about charging.

01:30:59   So I'm just gonna see, I'm just gonna see how it goes.

01:31:03   You know like Apple might bring out these head pods and then maybe that changes everything again

01:31:08   I don't know. I'm just gonna have to wait and see but for now I'm just gonna have a dongle on the way

01:31:13   My dongle arrives on Friday. I'm so excited

01:31:15   And then I'm just gonna put it on my headphones that go in my bag and I'm just gonna leave it there

01:31:20   I'm gonna see how it goes over time. But yeah, it's a frustration

01:31:23   But I will let this one go because I think everything else is so awesome

01:31:27   Oh boy

01:31:30   What do you think about the price increases? Oh

01:31:32   People are upset and I think they are more expensive.

01:31:39   They are like a couple of hundred dollars more or something, right?

01:31:42   It's especially bad for euros.

01:31:45   I think you can easily get to the point where you're spending two thousand and couple hundred euros to get an iPad Pro.

01:31:57   The keyboard is like 2200 euros.

01:32:02   It's like that's an insane amount of money for the keyboard folio.

01:32:08   But so I would say just on the actual price of the iPads,

01:32:14   I care more about the price increase in dollars,

01:32:18   because that's what Apple is saying the product is worth.

01:32:21   The issue when you go outside of dollars, especially into Europe

01:32:25   into the UK right now is there is a lot of price changes because Apple is betting on

01:32:30   economy changes and I think that that's a different argument.

01:32:32   Well, do people necessarily care about that? Like it's still 2000 euros.

01:32:37   Yeah, I know, but I'm just saying, look, if the iPads say the same price in America and

01:32:43   different prices in Europe, then that's a different discussion because that's purely

01:32:48   based upon economic changes that Apple is trying to hedge against. So like, I think

01:32:53   the conversation is more interesting about like what is the price in dollars because

01:32:57   in theory that shouldn't change and because that's where Apple's based and they're

01:33:02   not potentially not hedging against any economic changes. So yes I know it's good, I know

01:33:07   everything's more expensive in the UK and Europe but that's been the case for all

01:33:10   Apple products over the last year. They're all getting more expensive because the economy's

01:33:15   really bad. Like I'm not saying it's not bad like it is bad like I just spent an obscene

01:33:20   amount of money on these things.

01:33:21   But I'm just saying that like they did put up the price in dollars.

01:33:25   And why did they do that?

01:33:26   Like that that's kind of because it's like that isn't a discussion,

01:33:29   which is slightly different to the discussion of putting prices up outside of the US.

01:33:34   I'm not discounting it.

01:33:36   I'm just saying it's different because they've been putting up prices in the

01:33:39   in outside of the US all year without changing the prices in the US,

01:33:43   like of all their products and also they're disproportionate.

01:33:46   So like what they're going up in percentage in the US is different

01:33:49   to outside of the US and there's reasons for that which is not just Apple putting up their

01:33:55   prices to increase ASP or whatever they're like doing that plus something different but

01:34:00   the iPad pros have gone up in price everywhere so I think that that is a more kind of pertinent

01:34:07   discussion to look at this iPad pro why have they made the iPad pro more expensive which is not just

01:34:13   their hedging against Brexit or whatever so that's a really long way of saying that the

01:34:19   that the iPad Pros are more expensive.

01:34:20   - Yeah, I don't love it.

01:34:22   I think that this stuff should be accessible

01:34:26   to more people over time, not fewer people over time.

01:34:30   - Yeah, but I can look at these devices

01:34:32   and see why they're more expensive though.

01:34:34   Like I can look at it and be like, yeah okay, I see that.

01:34:36   - But they don't have to be.

01:34:37   Like they don't--

01:34:38   - Well, they don't, in theory.

01:34:42   - This is like a Tim Cook Apple kind of move.

01:34:45   And so something like the smart keyboard,

01:34:47   Okay, the new Smart Keyboard Folio has

01:34:50   a lot more material to it.

01:34:52   It's like $200, which is bonkers,

01:34:56   but I can see how they got there on that.

01:34:58   I can see it in some of the devices, like you can.

01:35:01   But my biggest problem is that,

01:35:04   it's not that I can't see how Apple justifies it,

01:35:07   but it's just like the core problem that this stuff,

01:35:11   if the iPad Pro is the future of Apple's computers,

01:35:15   then why is it $200 more than it used to be,

01:35:18   than it was two days ago?

01:35:19   - 200 does feel like a lot, right?

01:35:22   Like that does feel like a lot.

01:35:23   100 I would be more like willing to understand.

01:35:25   200 is a lot.

01:35:26   - On a product that's $1,000, $200 is a big percentage.

01:35:30   And yes, you can get like,

01:35:32   so like the 10.5 is still for sale at 649, I believe.

01:35:36   Like it's Apple's favorite move

01:35:37   is to make the old one cheap.

01:35:38   But it's a problem I have with that cheap iMac.

01:35:41   If someone buys the entry level of anything on Apple's line,

01:35:45   is that the lasting impression Apple wants to leave?

01:35:49   Is that product something that Apple can be proud of?

01:35:51   Now in the case of the 10.5 inch iPad Pro,

01:35:53   yes, it's still a really good iPad.

01:35:55   I'm actually gonna hold onto mine for a while

01:35:57   'cause I haven't ordered an iPad.

01:35:58   But the Apple's like mantra of like things

01:36:03   just slowly ratchet up over time.

01:36:08   I don't like it 'cause I buy a bunch of the stuff.

01:36:10   I don't like it because every time they do it,

01:36:12   it forces some segment of their consumer base

01:36:16   either into a purchase they really can't afford

01:36:18   but they sort of figure it out or it pushes people out.

01:36:22   And it's just not a good look

01:36:24   for the world's wealthiest company

01:36:27   to continue to raise prices slowly over time.

01:36:31   Apple's not a charity.

01:36:33   Apple's stock price is based on ASP and on future growth.

01:36:39   And the way Apple sees growth is to make more money

01:36:43   and to do that.

01:36:44   And unless they're selling a lot more of these things,

01:36:46   they make the price go up.

01:36:47   So the people who buy them pay more,

01:36:50   they end up making more at the end of the quarter.

01:36:52   I understand that Apple has to do that

01:36:54   because they're a publicly traded company.

01:36:56   Like I'm not saying that Apple should like

01:36:57   make everything free and we should all like

01:37:00   get and live in commune with Tim Cook.

01:37:02   I'm not saying that.

01:37:04   What I am saying though is there is a middle ground

01:37:06   between those two things where Apple used to be

01:37:08   really good at, hey, we have this whole new thing,

01:37:11   you get all these new features,

01:37:13   it's the same price as it was yesterday.

01:37:14   Like, if you spend the same $800, you get--

01:37:17   - Yeah, that doesn't feel like it happens very much anymore.

01:37:20   - No, and I think it should.

01:37:22   Like, Apple stuff, Apple's always been doing

01:37:25   for being more expensive, and from time to time,

01:37:27   they try to fight that, and saying that,

01:37:30   oh, the iMac Pro costs this much,

01:37:33   if you build a Dell, it's $1,000 more.

01:37:35   Like, they sometimes get into that,

01:37:37   But the way you fix the perception problem

01:37:40   of being too pricey is like, keep the prices the same

01:37:43   when you make the products better.

01:37:45   And if that eats into your margin a little bit at first,

01:37:48   I think Apple should be more willing to do that.

01:37:50   And it just, it's frustrating

01:37:52   because it hurts their customers

01:37:54   and it's just like, that's just a bad look.

01:37:57   - 'Cause it's, again, it's like going back to my point

01:37:59   of like, I can see why it's more expensive, right?

01:38:01   Like they've made these like things,

01:38:04   they look more technically impressive.

01:38:06   Apple also chooses to make those

01:38:08   advancements. Right.

01:38:09   And then it could be argued that they

01:38:11   make them more technically impressive so

01:38:13   they can charge more money.

01:38:14   Right. Like it's like a

01:38:16   chicken and egg situation.

01:38:18   It is difficult.

01:38:19   It is a shame that we don't see

01:38:21   what you were saying.

01:38:24   Right. They're like and this one is

01:38:26   boom, the same price as the old one.

01:38:28   And then the old one gets cheaper and

01:38:30   it just that doesn't feel like it's

01:38:31   happening as much anymore.

01:38:34   I'm keen to see what happens to the average selling price because if the average selling

01:38:37   price goes up, then we'll know exactly what happened, right?

01:38:39   That like they're just trying to make more money.

01:38:41   Right.

01:38:42   Because like Apple, like we can say all this, but Apple hasn't been proven wrong yet.

01:38:47   Like the iPhone ASP, so we had this conversation with the iPhone 10, like holy cow, it's $1,000.

01:38:52   The ASP rose and people bought the iPhone 10.

01:38:55   So this year, the 10s and the 10s max and the 10r, that ASP is going to continue to

01:39:00   rise and- And if that happens and you're Tim Cook, what

01:39:03   are you gonna do? You're gonna keep doing it. You're gonna find where the limit is and Apple hasn't

01:39:08   hit that wall yet. Nope. At some point I believe that they will. Maybe this is the iPad that, maybe

01:39:15   the iPad wall is here. Maybe it's not. I wish they quit playing chicken with it and make products that

01:39:21   they can be proud of at all price points. Can we talk about the accessories? This new Apple Pencil

01:39:26   It's basically everything I wanted. I cannot believe that they have done all of the stuff that they have done in one go.

01:39:34   The matte finish excites me because I just think it will feel nicer. Can you confirm Federico Vittucci?

01:39:41   It does feel it does feel it does feel much nicer than the old one

01:39:45   It feels more

01:39:48   compact, less

01:39:52   I don't know, it feels like a more serious tool maybe than the old one.

01:39:56   Less like a toy, more like a functional tool that feels nicer in the hand. Yeah.

01:40:02   There were two features that I've wanted since the thing came out and I've set it basically from day

01:40:06   one. One was for it to be flat on the sides so it wouldn't roll away because the magnets was

01:40:12   a garbage idea of like the weighting in it. That was a silly idea, it's not true.

01:40:16   It doesn't stop it, it just doesn't stop it, right? Like it's a really fun thing to say

01:40:20   that you wait it so it won't roll but that's just not how physics works.

01:40:23   And I try to make it roll off the table. One flat side helps. I don't think it's still

01:40:30   as good as you would like it to be. It still rolls.

01:40:33   No, it will be. It will be. Because I understand the parameters of this because I have pens

01:40:36   that are just the same. It will roll but you have to roll it. But with one flat side, the

01:40:41   way that you would typically put it down, it won't roll. If you throw it at the table,

01:40:46   Yes, it's going to roll, but that's not what you're doing.

01:40:48   Right. So one flat side is exactly what I was looking for.

01:40:52   That was like the minimum of it.

01:40:55   So I'm super excited about that.

01:40:56   The other was to have a button.

01:40:58   Now, it doesn't have a button, but it doesn't.

01:41:00   The point is, I don't care about whether it has a button or not.

01:41:03   I care about what the button enables and what the button enables is functions.

01:41:08   So in Notes, you can switch tools.

01:41:10   But the thing that I'm most excited about is what developers can do with it,

01:41:13   which is basically anything they want.

01:41:15   and this is a quote from Federico's Hands-On article.

01:41:18   Federico Vittucci says, "In my Hands-On demo,

01:41:20   "I was shown an upcoming version of Procreate

01:41:22   "with a radial contextual menu

01:41:23   "that appeared upon double-tapping the pencil.

01:41:26   "This is my dream.

01:41:27   "This is everything I wanted."

01:41:28   - So the way this works is you're gonna have in settings

01:41:31   some options to set the behavior

01:41:33   of the double-tap gesture on the pencil.

01:41:35   You can choose to switch between the tool and the eraser.

01:41:40   You can choose to switch between two recently used tools

01:41:45   and also you can choose to show the color palette.

01:41:49   And the way this works for developers, they can either implement the system setting, so

01:41:54   if you make a drawing app and you have an eraser, you can read the system-wide setting

01:42:00   and conform to that.

01:42:03   Or you can override the system setting and you can provide your own functionalities.

01:42:08   This is what Procreate does.

01:42:11   like, oh, do what the system does or do literally whatever you want.

01:42:15   I kind of like that choice.

01:42:18   Procreate had a toggle in its own settings

01:42:21   that basically confirmed if you wanted to enable the custom Procreate

01:42:28   double tap feature, which is this radial menu that you double tap on the pencil

01:42:32   and you get this menu pop up in the on the screen with some options.

01:42:36   It's very nice.

01:42:38   'cause even in Photoshop they showed the double tap being zoom in and zoom out.

01:42:41   - Yeah, exactly. It's a custom thing. - Which is not, you know, that's all custom.

01:42:43   So I can't wait to see, I cannot wait to see what you do with it.

01:42:47   Like I'm super excited about what might happen to some of these apps that use the Apple Pencil.

01:42:52   I hope that apps that aren't even necessarily Apple Pencil focused add this functionality as well.

01:42:57   - Totally. - Because you can do stuff there.

01:43:00   It's basically like a right click.

01:43:01   It's a right click and I feel like the fact that it's now so easy to carry around the Pencil

01:43:08   because it just snaps to the top of the iPad,

01:43:10   which by the way, it's very satisfying to do.

01:43:13   It's gonna be more, I think it's gonna be more present

01:43:18   in an everyday workflow than the old Pencil

01:43:21   that needed management.

01:43:22   This one doesn't mean--

01:43:23   - Especially because it charges now too.

01:43:25   - It also charges and you get the pop-up on the screen,

01:43:28   the little message that just zoot-sy--

01:43:31   - That little pop-up, that looks to me

01:43:34   like future iOS design.

01:43:35   - I know, right?

01:43:36   Yeah.

01:43:37   webOS is what it looks like. It looks like webOS, yes. But there's something about it

01:43:41   where it's like, there's no other part of iOS that looks like that. Exactly. And it's

01:43:45   almost like, it reminds me of some of the AirPower stuff, right, like the way that charging

01:43:50   was shown for AirPower, rest in peace. So it's really gone. It's really gone for good.

01:43:55   It looks, it's gone. It's dead, right? Like it's 100% dead. The charging pad that shall

01:44:00   not be named. It's never coming. But like, I see that, it's like, oh okay, that's interesting.

01:44:05   It's just this little pop up like this little bubble.

01:44:07   It's very cool.

01:44:09   But the fact that it magnetically attaches is the thing.

01:44:12   That is not going to be a permanent attachment.

01:44:14   It won't fall off, but it will fall off.

01:44:16   So it's just something to remember.

01:44:17   Like you put it in and out of a bag, it's probably going to come off.

01:44:20   But that's okay, right?

01:44:21   Because you're not going to lose the cap because there's no cap.

01:44:25   No, you're going to, it's going to be like where you would expect it to be.

01:44:31   But I think it's cool that they've added it.

01:44:33   The inductive charging is amazing.

01:44:35   So, you know, I got these two things that I really wanted,

01:44:37   but the magnetic attachment and inductive charging never expected that.

01:44:41   Like I didn't think they'd ever do the magnetic attachment

01:44:43   because it's a difficult thing to do.

01:44:45   And inductive charging seems like Apple pencil four, honestly,

01:44:48   rather than Apple pencil two.

01:44:50   I'm really excited about this.

01:44:52   This is going to this is going to make me use the Apple pencil

01:44:55   even more than I was already using it, honestly.

01:44:57   And I'm super excited about it.

01:44:59   I feel like I don't need any of my customizations anymore.

01:45:03   I don't need something to hold it on because Apple's done that for me, and I don't need to add my grip to it because

01:45:08   the Apple Pencil won't roll away anymore. So I would still love to see them make it out of aluminium,

01:45:13   but that's just a dream, like some pipe dream of mine. I'm really excited for the Apple Pencil.

01:45:17   Let's talk about the new keyboard real quick because I have thoughts.

01:45:21   So the new iPad Pro doesn't have a smart keyboard,

01:45:26   it's got a smart keyboard folio, which is, as the name suggests,

01:45:31   It's a smart keyboard with a folio case that wraps around the back of the iPad.

01:45:36   It aligns and attaches to the iPad thanks to the hundred and something magnets that

01:45:41   are built into the iPad.

01:45:43   And it's a lot of magnets inside.

01:45:47   It looked to me like it was the process of attaching it and removing it was a bit more

01:45:52   involved than the old smart keyboard.

01:45:55   Like of course there's an extra layer of the case that you need to manage, but maybe it's

01:46:00   something that you get used to quickly. It supports two viewing angles. So there's a

01:46:06   desktop mode where it's got this steep angle that sort of sits right in front of your face

01:46:12   in theory, and vertical angle. And there's a laptop mode that is more, you know, the

01:46:18   angle is more ideal for using the iPad on your lap. And in theory, the structure of

01:46:25   of the folio case should help with laptop use.

01:46:28   I am disappointed though, that all the things

01:46:32   that I want an Apple to do have not been done

01:46:36   in this product.

01:46:37   The keys are not backlit.

01:46:40   So still the same setup with the fabric covering the keys

01:46:45   without backlight at all.

01:46:48   - I will say, thankfully, it doesn't seem like

01:46:49   they've changed the keys.

01:46:50   - Doesn't seem like, I think it's the exact same cover,

01:46:54   exact same keys. No media function keys at all. There's no Siri key, there's no

01:47:00   home button key, of course, because it's gone. There's no, but not even the media

01:47:06   playback keys that I love on my Brydge keyboard. Those are not in the Smart

01:47:11   Keyboard. But I kind of like it, you know, it doesn't add a ton of bulk to the

01:47:20   iPad Pro. I'm gonna get it at first because I have to, because there's no other option.

01:47:29   You need a keyboard, right? I need a keyboard. I am concerned that the,

01:47:34   basically the lack of bezels will make it, if not impossible, really hard for companies

01:47:39   like Bridge to make the same setup that we have now with the two clips and the hinge

01:47:46   that basically hold the iPad in place. Yeah. I'm hoping they could have something

01:47:50   it just clamps to the side rather than hinges to the front.

01:47:53   I guess that's what they're gonna do but to the side there's a two depth camera so I don't

01:47:58   know maybe they can figure something out. Not that high up though, like you could do

01:48:01   a smaller man. I mean I'm concerned for Brydge because I don't think either of their keyboards

01:48:06   are gonna work and they're just shipped a new one.

01:48:08   I'm just surprised. Apple, this company Apple, I mean they like money, that's a takeaway

01:48:16   from. That's a takeaway from this discussion that this company likes their growing, you

01:48:23   know, the raising prices and money, which is fine because it's a public company. It's

01:48:28   what they do. I'm surprised they're not asking for like $400 to make an aluminum keyboard

01:48:35   that is backlit as a bunch of stuff. I would give you that money because my, I just lean

01:48:41   into the green. I mean, at this point, sure, I'll throw you a couple hundred

01:48:45   extra bucks, but give me an actual keyboard that is backlit and that I can

01:48:50   attach to my iPad because I'm going to buy the smart keyboard. I'm not going to

01:48:54   love it. I already know that I'm not going to love it. I'm going to cover it

01:48:57   in stickers, which is fine. Adds a bit of flair to the iPad. And also Myke is

01:49:01   going to be happy. Why is it just in one color? I know. I know. I just, yeah,

01:49:06   Please, Apple, you seem to have an appreciation for money, which I understand.

01:49:11   Help me help you give you more money by making a more expensive premium keyboard.

01:49:20   That's great.

01:49:22   The smart keyboard now has its own web page on the Apple site.

01:49:27   I'm not sure if it did before.

01:49:29   It did.

01:49:30   But skimming through this, this feels like how Microsoft treats the Surface keyboards.

01:49:35   It's kind of its own product.

01:49:37   Obviously it doesn't do anything unless you buy the tablet.

01:49:39   But they are really leaning into the features of this thing.

01:49:44   And like I said, there's just not that many new features.

01:49:47   I kind of like that it covers the back and the front.

01:49:49   I think it looks really nice.

01:49:51   I think it would actually look better with the silver than the space gray.

01:49:55   I think the contrast would be nice.

01:49:57   But yeah, have some options.

01:49:59   Have one with the trackpad.

01:50:00   Have one with the backlit keyboard.

01:50:01   Microsoft does both in their Surface keyboard covers.

01:50:05   clearly possible. My hope for this is just that, so my pipe dream situation is

01:50:12   that they haven't made this product because they haven't got trackpad

01:50:16   support in iOS yet and when they do, they'll be a different product.

01:50:20   This is just the one between then and now. I'm gonna miss the

01:50:24   wraparound for the media, so you can stand it up, you know? Where you can

01:50:30   wrap the whole keyboard around, just set it up. Did you ever have that work? That's

01:50:33   always really floppy to me. I use it all the time. It's always funny on a 10.5 because

01:50:39   the angle is basically completely vertical, which always feels like it's going to explode

01:50:44   and just fall over but it never happened to me. I know that's why they have the two angles,

01:50:50   right? So one of them is like, they call it desktop, but it's also so you can watch stuff,

01:50:54   right? So it's like it's more up. But then the keyboard is always in front, which isn't

01:50:58   necessarily what I want. They do sell a smart folio, which does this, right? But I don't

01:51:06   really want that. But at least it comes in pink, so you know, great news. Pink and white

01:51:13   and grey in that one. But I am excited for this smart keyboard though, I'm excited for

01:51:18   all of it. And we're getting next Wednesday! We're one week away. So maybe next week's

01:51:24   episode well okay so I've bought all of it

01:51:29   Steven do you haven't bought any have you I just bought a Mac mini no iPad

01:51:33   stuff I think it is best for you to actually try them first because you'll

01:51:37   buy one and return it and buy the other one so I think you need to let go to an

01:51:40   Apple Store and actually hold them I want to see it I'm right now I'm leaning

01:51:44   to the 12 9 I bought the 10 5 and I feel like that I want more screen but yeah I

01:51:51   I want to see it in person.

01:51:52   - Yeah, I'd been waiting for these though.

01:51:54   Like I, you know, this is, this was my big computer

01:51:57   purchase of the year, so I'm excited.

01:51:59   Federico, have you wanted anything yet?

01:52:01   I know you've been on planes.

01:52:02   - Not yet.

01:52:03   I just came back home and I'm looking into what I,

01:52:08   what I want right now into what,

01:52:10   do I want the one-terabyte model?

01:52:12   Do I want maybe something less?

01:52:14   I don't know.

01:52:15   I'm oriented towards the one-terabyte model.

01:52:17   Also the dates have already slipped at this point.

01:52:21   So I was busy yesterday then I got on a plane and I realized you know

01:52:26   I I'm probably gonna try to walk into the store and see what they have

01:52:30   If possible, I'm sure they'll have them like I don't think it's gonna be

01:52:35   These iPad pros in Rome

01:52:39   It took all day for the dates to slip to the next so exactly there's going to be some in-store stock

01:52:46   I'm sure so so let's hope for in-store stock. Let's hope that Myke's home delivery comes quickly

01:52:52   I couldn't do in-store pickup for these it just wouldn't let me which is I hate it because I hate waiting at home for stuff

01:52:58   Like this, but then hopefully we'll have them to talk about next week and Steven. Will you have your Mac mini?

01:53:03   It is I have it coming on the 7th now that X is usually late in the day

01:53:09   So I may not have it by the time we record

01:53:11   But I don't see just looking at the date so that the MacBook Air is starting to slip a little bit

01:53:15   but the Mac Mini is still shipping on the 7th.

01:53:17   Nice, nice.

01:53:19   Good job Mac Mini.

01:53:21   I feel like the Mac Mini is one of those things

01:53:23   they're gonna sell the vast majority of them in the first quarter.

01:53:27   Right? Like everyone who's wanted one.

01:53:29   It's one of those things where I think

01:53:31   there were more people that were concerned about it being available than will actually buy it.

01:53:35   Sure.

01:53:37   Which is kind of like a funny thing.

01:53:39   Everyone was like "Come on, you gotta update it!"

01:53:41   but no one's really gonna buy it.

01:53:43   - Sometimes people in the Apple community

01:53:45   are upset on principle.

01:53:47   Like with that,

01:53:48   - Yes, the principle.

01:53:49   - Like why are you not updating the Mac Mimi?

01:53:51   Well, they did.

01:53:52   Are you buying one?

01:53:53   No, I'm not.

01:53:54   - No, what am I crazy?

01:53:56   (laughing)

01:53:57   - I bought one.

01:53:58   I'm in the chosen few.

01:54:00   - Yeah, you're doing your duty, right?

01:54:03   Like you complained about it

01:54:04   and now you're putting your money where your complaint was.

01:54:06   - And my home server is falling apart.

01:54:08   So it's time.

01:54:09   Seven years is a good run for a machine that's on 24/7.

01:54:12   - Yep.

01:54:13   - I think that does it for this week's episode.

01:54:15   If you wanna find links to stuff we talked about,

01:54:18   head over to relay.fm/connected/216.

01:54:22   While you're there, you can get in touch via email

01:54:25   or you can do so on Twitter.

01:54:27   You can find Myke there as I-M-Y-K-E.

01:54:30   And Myke, of course, is the host

01:54:31   of a bunch of other shows here at Relay FM.

01:54:34   You can find Federico on Twitter @vitiici,

01:54:37   V-I-T-I-C-C-I, and he is the editor and chief.

01:54:40   - Yes, I'm both.

01:54:42   I'm both.

01:54:42   (laughing)

01:54:43   - The editor and chief, I love that.

01:54:46   - It's editor and chief, which is like a weird turn of phrase.

01:54:48   - People call me chief also, yes.

01:54:51   - Not chief.

01:54:52   - I've been calling you editor.

01:54:52   - Not really.

01:54:53   Well, you call me editor.

01:54:54   (laughing)

01:54:56   - Chief T. Chief.

01:54:57   - So he's writing about iPads and shortcuts.

01:55:02   - He's the fatigue chief.

01:55:03   - Oh my God.

01:55:04   Please wrap the show, Steven, please.

01:55:06   - That's good, I like that.

01:55:08   - You can find me on Twitter as ismh

01:55:10   and I write 512pixels.net,

01:55:12   and also host a bunch of shows here.

01:55:14   I'd like to thank our sponsors this week,

01:55:16   Pingdom, Linode, and PayPal.

01:55:18   Until next week, gentlemen, say goodbye.

01:55:20   - Adios, echos.

01:55:21   - Cheerio!

01:55:22   - Adios.

01:55:23   [ Silence ]