Live from NYC: A Nightmare Level of Itching


00:00:00   But we are going to do a special episode of connected connected as a show that everyone that he knows what it is

00:00:08   That normally has

00:00:11   Federico Vittucci, okay, but he could not he could not make it so we do have a very

00:00:18   special guest Federico's American cousin

00:00:22   Considering this is a mostly audio based program, we have Marco Ahmet who of us, Marco is wearing

00:00:44   a wig. Did you own this before the show? A few hours before the show. You look very good

00:00:51   though. I think I might just keep this look. I know it's not an exact match. This is the

00:00:56   pop icon wig. No, he's a pop icon. And it's the closest I could get to Italian superstar

00:01:03   Federico Fattice. These are big shoes to fill, especially in the hair department, where usually

00:01:07   I'm not very strong. And so this is, this really, I feel like maybe this is the new

00:01:13   me. It's a good you. I like this you. It's really good. Everybody, New York likes the

00:01:19   - Nice and you, Marco. - Yeah.

00:01:20   (audience applauding)

00:01:24   - Well, shall we get started?

00:01:25   - Yes.

00:01:26   - Am I gonna wear this the whole time?

00:01:27   - It's up to you.

00:01:28   You brought it on.

00:01:29   - There you go.

00:01:30   On a scale of one to 10, how itchy was that?

00:01:36   - A little, yeah.

00:01:37   Maybe three or four.

00:01:39   But it would've gotten to a 10 by the end of the show.

00:01:41   - A nightmare level of itchy?

00:01:42   (laughing)

00:01:43   (dramatic orchestral music)

00:01:47   (upbeat music)

00:01:50   Welcome to Connected episode 215.

00:01:54   I'm your host, Stephen Hackett,

00:01:56   and I am really glad to be hosting this show

00:01:59   live from New York.

00:02:01   (audience cheers)

00:02:03   This very special live episode is made possible

00:02:12   by TextExpander, PayPal, and Timing,

00:02:15   And I am joined on stage by my co-host

00:02:18   and my co-founder of Relay FM, Myke Hurley.

00:02:21   - Hello.

00:02:21   (audience applauding)

00:02:24   Thank you, New York.

00:02:25   - And we are joined by a very special guest,

00:02:29   Federico could not make it.

00:02:30   You know him from projects like Overcast

00:02:33   and Under the Radar and a show that is accidentally

00:02:36   not on Relay FM, Marco Arment.

00:02:38   (audience laughing)

00:02:40   (audience applauding)

00:02:45   Should I try to be Italian like, "Fettuccine!"

00:02:47   Or just be like, "Hi."

00:02:49   - That's what he says most of the time.

00:02:50   - Right, yeah.

00:02:51   - You got it.

00:02:52   - DiGiorno.

00:02:53   - Do you have strong feelings?

00:02:54   (audience laughing)

00:02:57   Well, thanks for coming everybody.

00:03:01   (audience laughing)

00:03:03   - I'm so sorry Federico.

00:03:04   The ghost of Federico will rain down.

00:03:06   Look at this, he'll never miss another one after this.

00:03:08   - That's true.

00:03:09   - So Marker is here, we have some fun topics,

00:03:13   the stuff to get into, but we have to start with...

00:03:17   - Shoo, follow up. - Follow up.

00:03:18   That really actually kinda, kinda hurt.

00:03:22   So we spoke on the show several times

00:03:25   about how some of us are struggling with the iPhone 10S

00:03:28   and 10S Max camera, they do some weird smoothing.

00:03:32   I've never looked better, but I'm not super happy with it,

00:03:36   with Smart HDR and some of the stuff they're doing.

00:03:38   And it turns out that in iOS 12.1,

00:03:42   I don't think it's in the beta yet, I'm not sure,

00:03:44   but at some point it will be.

00:03:45   Apple is going to be toning down some of that,

00:03:49   that noise reduction, some of that smoothing,

00:03:51   so we all look like humans again,

00:03:53   and not plastic crash test dummies.

00:03:55   - Yeah, this came from Neil I. Patel.

00:03:57   It was in his iPhone 10R review,

00:03:59   we'll talk about 10R a little bit later on,

00:04:02   that Apple confirmed to him that it was a bug in 12.1.

00:04:05   So. - There you go.

00:04:06   - It will be fixed when that comes out,

00:04:08   and I guess it will make us all sharper again.

00:04:11   There's a bunch of technical stuff about where it was pulling the image from, and it just

00:04:14   seems like basically they didn't know it was a problem and it was going to fix it.

00:04:17   It's interesting to me that this has been going on.

00:04:20   People have been talking about this for a few weeks, but they've not said anything until

00:04:23   now?

00:04:24   I mean, Apple doesn't like being...

00:04:26   They would eventually talk to a single journalist and let that sort of go on its own, then I

00:04:31   think have a big statement about it.

00:04:35   Sure, sure.

00:04:36   Anyways, so everyone's going to be happy about that, I suppose.

00:04:39   Myke, up next, your mysterious clear iPhone XR case,

00:04:44   - It's the curious case of the clear case.

00:04:46   - As predicted by some of us, seems to be non-existent.

00:04:51   - I mean, I don't know what to do about this.

00:04:54   It was in a press release that went to some places.

00:04:56   - Canada, that's not a real place.

00:04:57   - And that's the next stop on my personal tour.

00:05:01   - Nice knowing you. - Toronto, I'm looking forward to it.

00:05:04   And there is, so the iPhone XRs, you can pre-order them,

00:05:08   but there's no cases from Apple at all.

00:05:11   - It's really weird.

00:05:12   - In the store there's some OtterBox cases

00:05:14   and Belkin screen protectors, but that's it.

00:05:17   So I don't know what's going on with that.

00:05:18   I think clear case is the best idea for this phone.

00:05:21   I don't know why Apple isn't making anything.

00:05:24   It seems a bit strange.

00:05:25   I don't know if maybe it's gonna change on Friday.

00:05:27   - That probably isn't intentional.

00:05:29   Like they probably just like,

00:05:30   they didn't get them done in time or something.

00:05:32   Like I can't, 'cause like they make so much extra money

00:05:35   on those attachment sales.

00:05:36   When you buy the phone, you get accessories with it.

00:05:38   and everyone does that.

00:05:39   - And like just because it's colors

00:05:41   doesn't mean they wouldn't make a case

00:05:43   'cause they make a big deal of the colors

00:05:44   of the other phones as well, right?

00:05:46   They're just not bright colors,

00:05:47   but like the gold and the silver

00:05:48   and the ever-changing space gray.

00:05:50   Like they like to, you know, they talk about that.

00:05:53   - Well and you know, they've been here before.

00:05:55   Like they've made colorful phones before,

00:05:56   phones that looked really great without cases before,

00:05:59   and they know the reality is most people

00:06:00   are gonna put a case on.

00:06:01   So if they don't have one for sale on day one,

00:06:03   they're just gonna lose that business to third parties.

00:06:05   That's why I think there's no way this is intentional.

00:06:07   I'm guessing we see cases pretty soon.

00:06:08   - Yeah, at some point.

00:06:10   - Maybe the AirPower team was in charge of the case.

00:06:15   They figured AirPower will be done.

00:06:16   We'll just move these people to the 10-hour case.

00:06:19   - To the cases.

00:06:20   - That's what I'm going with.

00:06:21   - Yup.

00:06:23   - Finally, we have some good news

00:06:25   for you Safari users out there.

00:06:28   I think there are probably three or four of you here.

00:06:30   In the new Safari--

00:06:31   - Why are people cheering for Safari?

00:06:34   - I like Safari.

00:06:35   Yeah, but like enough to cheer about it?

00:06:37   (audience laughing)

00:06:38   I don't know, like it's like a real specific glove.

00:06:39   Marco has a Safari tattoo.

00:06:41   (laughing)

00:06:44   It got me crazy backstage.

00:06:45   Yeah.

00:06:46   So the new Safari technical preview,

00:06:49   which is like a sort of a beta fork

00:06:51   and stuff eventually makes it down to Safari

00:06:53   for us regular humans, adds a prefers color scheme

00:06:58   media query.

00:07:00   So it will basically tell the browser

00:07:03   the system is in dark mode, this website should load

00:07:07   its dark mode CSS if it has it.

00:07:12   And so this is what we kind of wanted,

00:07:14   'cause if you're using dark mode in Mojave,

00:07:16   you know the second you go out on the internet,

00:07:18   your eyes melt from your skull.

00:07:21   It's like when they open the Ark of the Covenant

00:07:23   in Indiana Jones, face comes off,

00:07:26   which is like a medical condition I want no part of.

00:07:28   - Yep.

00:07:29   Is that a medical?

00:07:30   No, man.

00:07:32   It feels like it could be.

00:07:34   So that will be sort of an automatic thing.

00:07:36   So I'm looking forward to that.

00:07:38   I'm going to be doing it on 512, because 512 is very bright.

00:07:41   And I've gotten some-- actually had a listener actually send me

00:07:45   a CSS file saying, you don't have to do any work.

00:07:48   Just do this.

00:07:49   So I'll be--

00:07:50   That is someone who so badly wants it.

00:07:53   They're just like, I'll give it to you.

00:07:55   Yeah, just please.

00:07:56   Please.

00:07:56   Please.

00:07:57   Please.

00:07:57   Please use it.

00:07:58   Your website is very just bright.

00:08:01   It is of its time.

00:08:02   It's a long time ago.

00:08:04   So that's exciting.

00:08:06   My question is, will marco.org

00:08:08   be implementing a dark theme?

00:08:09   - Well I need to like start writing there first

00:08:12   before anybody, like right now no one's really visiting it

00:08:16   because even I'm not visiting it.

00:08:18   So once that changes, maybe.

00:08:21   - But you always write these like longer pieces

00:08:23   and by the end of it we'd all be blind.

00:08:26   - Yeah, well most people are reading on their iPhone anyway.

00:08:28   We all know that's true.

00:08:29   - Maybe a listener will submit some CSS to you.

00:08:32   - Yeah.

00:08:33   - They don't have to do anything.

00:08:34   - I have to remember how to update.

00:08:34   (laughing)

00:08:37   - Do either of you guys use Doc Mode?

00:08:38   Do you use Doc Mode on your mic?

00:08:40   - No, I don't at all.

00:08:41   I tried it for like 10 minutes

00:08:42   and I just didn't like the way the system stuff looked.

00:08:45   Even without the webpage issue, which is a big issue,

00:08:48   but even without that, like I just,

00:08:49   I didn't like how like Finder Windows and Mail

00:08:52   and everything, I just didn't like how any of them looked.

00:08:54   - You?

00:08:55   - I'm not using it either.

00:08:55   I used it in the beta for a while

00:08:58   but I just kinda came to a point where it's like,

00:09:00   I just don't like this.

00:09:01   And I'll have other problems with the interface,

00:09:03   like the appearance manager stuff,

00:09:05   like the transparency, all that's wrong.

00:09:08   I do really miss that I can't have a dark menu bar

00:09:10   and dock in light mode everywhere else,

00:09:13   and I haven't found a way to trick the system

00:09:15   into doing that.

00:09:16   But yeah, so I'm in light mode.

00:09:18   I don't love it, but dark mode,

00:09:21   I thought it was gonna be for me,

00:09:24   but something about the contrast or something,

00:09:26   really I get lost like I kind of where'd that window go it's all like muddy and

00:09:31   yeah not for me no I don't have any Mojave Macs so still run a snow leopard I wish I was

00:09:38   it's a good I can hook you up with a installer CD later I brought it with me

00:09:44   I brought it's in my go pack great great market installs all right let's take our

00:09:49   first break and thank our friends over at TexExpander for their support of this

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00:11:22   of this show and Relay FM.

00:11:29   So we are recording this episode sort of in a weird time to be in the Apple world because

00:11:35   there's a new phone coming out tomorrow.

00:11:38   And an event next week.

00:11:39   Yeah, and an event next week.

00:11:40   - It's very peculiar.

00:11:41   - When we were planning this tour,

00:11:43   there was a lot of stress around like,

00:11:45   okay, if Apple does a follow event,

00:11:47   if they do it the week before,

00:11:48   we have a lot of stuff to talk about.

00:11:50   If it's the week of, we're all gonna die.

00:11:52   If it's the week after, it's like, you know,

00:11:54   so like really, we had three versions of this.

00:11:56   But the 10R-- - Best timeline,

00:11:57   we're on the best timeline. - We're on the best timeline.

00:12:00   But the, at least in podcast world,

00:12:02   I don't know about the rest of the world.

00:12:04   - Oh, come on.

00:12:05   - But the 10R, (laughing)

00:12:07   10R is shipping tomorrow,

00:12:09   can pick it up in stores tomorrow if you're so inclined. So reviews are out. We've all

00:12:13   been poring over them because it's a really interesting phone. It's a new strategy from

00:12:17   Apple and their smartphone lineup. And I thought we could talk a little bit about it. Obviously

00:12:23   this is not super informed because none of us have them. Nope. But we've read a lot of

00:12:29   them. Not yet anyway. Not yet. Are you going to buy a XR? We'll see. We'll see. That's

00:12:32   later in the doc. I'm sorry. Sorry. How many phones are you going to buy this month? Don't

00:12:36   worry about it. It's fine. It's totally fine. Two iPads, gonna get those, probably.

00:12:42   Seven phones. I've got a Pixel. You gotta get a Recolor. Let's talk about that layer. This is when we

00:12:46   pass the plates to the audience. Take up an offering. So the display, of course, is

00:12:55   the big story here. It is the same pixel density that Apple's been at for a long

00:13:01   time but there are more of them so it's just like it's the same display that was

00:13:06   in the iPhone what was it the four and then it got bigger with the five and

00:13:11   bigger with the six and the seven the seven like the same density so it's just

00:13:14   a very familiar panel for any of us who looked at iPhones for the last couple

00:13:18   years there's probably most people listening to this I would hope that'd be

00:13:22   weird it's all Motorola fans out there we love we love our Android friends too

00:13:28   that's perfectly fine. I'm just saying it's a common... They're like a little bit lower tier though, let's be honest.

00:13:32   I'm not getting involved in it. I would like to say that the markers used do not represent delivery.

00:13:38   You're saying you see that green bubble and you don't think like, "aw man."

00:13:42   You can email feedback

00:13:46   to Caseyless.

00:13:50   He loves email.

00:13:54   So the display is familiar and I think that's good.

00:13:57   I think it means that we can talk about this display

00:14:00   without sort of wondering what it's like

00:14:01   because it's one that we all know.

00:14:03   And I guess the question is, do we think that

00:14:07   that plus the OLED LCD difference is worth $250

00:14:10   to most people or to us?

00:14:12   - This was a really great point that Nilay Patel made

00:14:14   in his review on The Verge where he basically started off

00:14:16   it's like well, the difference is that there is a difference

00:14:19   but is it $250 of difference?

00:14:22   So Marco, is that worth it to you?

00:14:25   We're all gonna do this, I'm not just singling them out.

00:14:27   But do you think that, are you comfortable

00:14:30   with that price difference personally

00:14:33   for an OLED screen over an LCD screen

00:14:35   when this is probably the best LCD screen they've ever made

00:14:38   and we all were very, very, no one had problems

00:14:40   with the LCD screen in the iPhone before.

00:14:42   We weren't all like, OLED would be nice,

00:14:44   but we weren't like, ah, this is terrible.

00:14:46   So to you, is the difference that the OLED screen gives

00:14:50   worth that extra money?

00:14:53   - I think it's a little hard to compare

00:14:54   because we're not exactly comparing apples and oranges,

00:14:57   or apples and apples here, you know, it's, sorry, yeah.

00:15:00   All these fruit jokes, all right, so,

00:15:01   like, we're not comparing the same thing

00:15:03   because like, if the option is like,

00:15:04   you can either have the X, I'm just gonna say X,

00:15:07   you can either have the XR or the XS,

00:15:10   but they're not the same in every other way.

00:15:11   There's other differences, some of which are substantial.

00:15:14   So if you just, if the issue is you can get

00:15:16   the exact same phone, everything else is the same,

00:15:19   One has OLED, one doesn't, $250.

00:15:22   If I had never had an OLED phone,

00:15:25   like last year when none of us had the X yet,

00:15:27   when that was brand new, I would have said yes.

00:15:30   That is worth it because OLED sounds really amazing.

00:15:33   I'd love to see those deep blacks.

00:15:35   I'd love to have the massive battery consumption reduction

00:15:37   and everything.

00:15:38   In practice, now that I've had the X for a year,

00:15:42   the battery difference really hasn't panned out

00:15:44   the way we thought it would, I don't think.

00:15:45   Like the X has good battery life, but like so did the 7.

00:15:48   So I don't think, and so did the eight,

00:15:51   I don't think OLED was as big of a battery saver

00:15:54   as we thought it would be.

00:15:55   And most of the content I look at on my phone is light.

00:16:00   It's Instagram timelines, it's mail, it's web browsing.

00:16:04   Even like in Overcast, it was a light theme.

00:16:06   It's driving directions.

00:16:08   So most of what I'm looking at is light anyway.

00:16:11   So I don't think OLED has actually been as big of a deal

00:16:15   as I wanted it to be.

00:16:17   - Especially when Apple aren't taking advantage

00:16:19   of some of the things you can do with an OLED display,

00:16:22   like always on functionality.

00:16:24   - Right, like if there was other stuff like that

00:16:25   beyond just like this display looks really awesome

00:16:28   when you're displaying dark stuff,

00:16:30   if there were other features, other differences

00:16:33   that are functional differences,

00:16:34   or if the battery life difference was really big,

00:16:36   then yeah, I think it'd be worth it.

00:16:38   - Especially if the XR has better battery life.

00:16:40   - Exactly.

00:16:41   - Right, so.

00:16:42   - But like the way, when presenting

00:16:43   with the actual comparison we have here,

00:16:45   where it's just like, well here's the XR,

00:16:47   with a really good LCD screen,

00:16:48   and here's the XS with a really good OLED screen,

00:16:53   I wouldn't get the XS on that factor alone.

00:16:56   - Okay, what about you, Steven?

00:16:58   - I agree with all that.

00:17:00   I think out of the differences between the XR and the XS,

00:17:04   I feel like the screen is the least important.

00:17:06   I think people would care more about

00:17:08   something like the camera than the display.

00:17:11   At least I'm trying to think out in the world.

00:17:14   'Cause I think most people,

00:17:16   I think the camera may be one of the single biggest reasons

00:17:21   people upgrade iPhones every two or three years.

00:17:25   I think the camera's a big driver of that.

00:17:27   And even though the wide angle's the same,

00:17:29   I think there will be people who do the XS

00:17:31   just for the camera, not thinking about the display

00:17:34   or the battery life.

00:17:35   Which like the XR and the X Max are on pretty

00:17:37   even footing battery life-wise it seems like,

00:17:39   at least according to Apple's numbers,

00:17:40   and I think the early reviews paint that out.

00:17:43   So I don't know.

00:17:44   I think for me, I'd be fine going back to an LCD.

00:17:48   I think for the reasons Marco said,

00:17:49   like it's nice but I don't really benefit from it

00:17:52   in any way and so if, for me, the screen is not

00:17:57   the reason I'm ignoring the 10 hour or avoiding it

00:18:00   as a purchase, if that makes sense.

00:18:02   - Yeah, I think probably the most important thing

00:18:05   about the 10 lines screen is the way, the shape of it.

00:18:09   - Right. - Right?

00:18:10   Like having it go to the edges.

00:18:14   whether you love it or hate it, the notch is like,

00:18:16   it's a big thing.

00:18:17   I love the way these phones look.

00:18:19   Like I love the fact that there is as much screen

00:18:22   as they can physically get on it

00:18:23   and still give me the functionality.

00:18:25   Like so that's kind of where I think the XR

00:18:28   is obviously closer to the XS for a lot of people

00:18:32   than the 8 was to the X.

00:18:36   - Yeah, the 8 looked old out of the gate.

00:18:38   - Yeah, the thing was never like,

00:18:40   well, the 8 has an LCD and the X has an OLED.

00:18:43   It was like, well, look how much bigger and nicer,

00:18:46   because it shaped, interestingly, that screen is.

00:18:48   - Yeah, so I think I've been showing on the show

00:18:50   my spouse's phone system failure.

00:18:55   She had an SE, and I sort of,

00:19:00   I don't wanna say I forced the 10,

00:19:02   but I was like, hey, I set this up for you

00:19:04   with all your stuff, maybe you should check this out.

00:19:06   Your SIM card's already in it.

00:19:07   - I was like--

00:19:08   - I was like, I need your Apple Watch for an hour.

00:19:10   (laughing)

00:19:11   Don't ask why it's unpairing, it's weird.

00:19:13   And so she tried the 10 because again,

00:19:16   the camera was sort of the impetus in our household

00:19:20   that she wanted the better camera.

00:19:21   And so she didn't like the 10 for a bunch of reasons.

00:19:24   And so we settled on an eight.

00:19:26   So I picked her an eight up before I left town

00:19:28   to come do this and I was setting it up.

00:19:30   And so I moved her from the SE to the 10 to the eight.

00:19:32   And so spending time with phones from very different eras,

00:19:37   I was immediately taken aback with my reaction

00:19:41   of the 8, which is like, it's a great phone.

00:19:43   Like I still recommend it to a lot of people.

00:19:46   If you need, if you want like a mid price iPhone,

00:19:49   the 8's the way to go still.

00:19:50   But like I picture that one's like, oh man,

00:19:53   like the bezels and the forehead and the touch ID,

00:19:56   like all this, I was like, this feels way older than it is.

00:20:00   - Yeah.

00:20:01   - And like, that's sort of Apple's trick, right?

00:20:03   Like Apple does that and the 10, 10R, 10S

00:20:07   are all benefiting from that still.

00:20:09   There will be a point where this doesn't feel new anymore,

00:20:11   but I don't think we're there yet.

00:20:12   - No, we're not.

00:20:13   And I think one of the reasons that that stuff

00:20:15   does feel older is because the rest of the market

00:20:18   has changed, which is not always typical, right?

00:20:22   Like that maybe Apple's moved on and some are catching up

00:20:25   or some have moved on and Apple hasn't.

00:20:27   But like all flagship phones now have as much screen

00:20:31   as they can fit within reason.

00:20:32   - Well, and companies, honestly, Samsung beat Apple to it.

00:20:36   - They did, multiple years ago.

00:20:37   - They had, they were doing edge to edge stuff

00:20:39   for a long time that made the iPhone look old.

00:20:41   So it's been the way the market has been moving

00:20:45   and phones like the 8, you know the 8's kinda got

00:20:48   a bad rap because it had to live in the 10 shadow

00:20:52   and I think it got overlooked by a lot of us

00:20:53   in the tech press because it really is good.

00:20:56   I mean it is, it's the 10R, 10S debate to a degree

00:21:00   because it has most of the same specs.

00:21:02   But--

00:21:03   - Right, but it's more of what you know.

00:21:04   - And that's why she wanted it.

00:21:05   She wanted something that was more familiar.

00:21:07   - So you both mentioned the camera

00:21:09   as like important parts of the difference.

00:21:11   And so there are some differences

00:21:14   between the XR and the other 10 phones.

00:21:17   So it has one camera, right?

00:21:18   So that makes some differences.

00:21:19   The biggest is maybe in the portrait mode photos,

00:21:23   but there are actually some good and some bad.

00:21:25   So there is no telephoto lens,

00:21:27   so you can get more in the picture.

00:21:29   So the portrait mode that is on any phone

00:21:32   that has two lenses on it, it uses the telephoto lens.

00:21:35   so it's closer to you, the portrait is closer.

00:21:37   So on the XR, you can actually get more of the background

00:21:40   when you're in the portrait mode,

00:21:41   but it's all done in software,

00:21:43   so it can look worse in places,

00:21:45   because the additional data that the two lenses provide

00:21:48   on the other phones can make for better pictures.

00:21:51   But also interestingly,

00:21:52   because it's using the regular sensor,

00:21:56   the wide angle sensor,

00:21:57   on the XR, low light performance in portrait mode

00:22:01   is vastly better.

00:22:03   So Marco, I'm assuming you maybe don't take

00:22:08   a ton of portrait photos?

00:22:10   - Almost zero.

00:22:11   - Why is that?

00:22:12   Is it purely because you don't like the software look

00:22:15   or do you not like Apple's implementation?

00:22:17   What is it about that that's just not for you?

00:22:19   - Both, I mean, I don't like fake blur.

00:22:23   It does look different from real actual

00:22:26   depth of field blur from actual optics.

00:22:28   It doesn't look nearly as good.

00:22:30   And among all the phones that do it,

00:22:33   Apple seems to have the worst algorithms for it.

00:22:35   I think the Google line has shown over the last couple

00:22:38   of years that they're just better at this.

00:22:40   And Apple's always able to show off a few shots

00:22:44   that look really good, and then when you get the phone

00:22:46   and you try it, half your shots that you try with it,

00:22:50   someone's ear is blurred off.

00:22:52   - Or their glasses is super typical.

00:22:55   - Yeah, or they have their hand on their waist,

00:22:59   so they have this little triangle in between their arm

00:23:02   their stomach and that triangle is super sharp in the background and the rest of them is

00:23:06   not like I do often stand like that like I'm some sort of Mac superhero like it just it

00:23:11   seems like the Apple portrait algorithm just fails so often in such common ways that it's

00:23:16   it's kind of like Siri where like once like once once I try it and it fails a certain

00:23:21   number of times I just kind of stop trying it because like I'm just I just don't want

00:23:24   to fail anymore so I just kind of I tried it and I stopped and then when I got the 10s

00:23:29   I tried it there too, and it didn't work there

00:23:31   very well so far either.

00:23:33   I got like one good shot out of it

00:23:35   that I posted to Instagram.

00:23:36   And then, and that was it.

00:23:38   Everything else had been weird.

00:23:39   So I don't really use the portrait feature,

00:23:42   which is why like I shouldn't be as much of a fan

00:23:45   of the 2X camera as I am.

00:23:47   I also, whenever I do use the 2X camera,

00:23:51   or I'm in a situation where I might use the 2X camera,

00:23:54   the fact that it's not as good of a camera

00:23:56   is actually very apparent,

00:23:58   especially with the XS, I believe the telephoto camera

00:24:02   was unchanged from the X.

00:24:04   So with the X, you had the wide angle and the telephoto,

00:24:06   and the telephoto was a little bit worse than the wide angle.

00:24:10   With the XS, the telephoto stayed the same.

00:24:12   The wide angle got way better.

00:24:14   So now, the telephoto on the XS is way worse

00:24:17   than the wide angle is, because the wide angle

00:24:19   got so much better.

00:24:21   And so I find myself trying out the telephoto

00:24:24   in certain situations, seeing how much worse it looks,

00:24:27   and then just switching back to the wide anyway.

00:24:29   So I'm actually using the telephoto lens

00:24:32   less and less over time,

00:24:34   and way less than I thought I would,

00:24:36   which is why the XR not having one

00:24:39   is actually not a huge deal for me.

00:24:42   And if I were buying one of these phones today,

00:24:46   I would seriously consider the XR.

00:24:48   - Is that from, I mean I guess

00:24:50   'cause there are other advantages to it,

00:24:51   but like the, you've been a not fan of bigger phones,

00:24:57   it is bigger, does that amount?

00:24:59   - It is bigger, but it is between the two sizes.

00:25:03   - Okay.

00:25:04   - So, and like, so, you know, everything,

00:25:05   I think the screen, the screen size

00:25:07   has the same point resolution as the Max, right?

00:25:10   - It does, yeah.

00:25:11   - But it's just a slightly smaller screen.

00:25:12   So everything looks a little bit smaller,

00:25:13   so it is, it's like a nice in-between size physically,

00:25:17   but screen real estate-wise, you have all the real estate

00:25:19   of the big phone.

00:25:20   That is kind of interesting to me.

00:25:23   Again, I don't think it's enough to make me, like,

00:25:25   sell my month old 10S or whatever.

00:25:28   - Sure, sure.

00:25:29   (audience laughing)

00:25:31   - But if these come out at the exact same time,

00:25:34   I would have had a tough decision.

00:25:36   - Yeah, okay, I can see that.

00:25:39   'Cause I was gonna say like,

00:25:41   do you not always go to the very tippy top of the line,

00:25:44   but you don't because the max is that, right?

00:25:47   Like it's got more of some stuff

00:25:49   and it's the most expensive,

00:25:50   but that isn't necessarily where you go.

00:25:53   even when the plus phones actually had a lot more features.

00:25:56   - Exactly, and like, you know,

00:25:58   as we talked about earlier with OLED,

00:25:59   like I would have thought that I would have definitely

00:26:02   gone with the high-end one

00:26:03   if I had never had these featured before.

00:26:05   If I had never had the telephoto lens,

00:26:06   if I had never had an OLED screen,

00:26:08   I would have gone for that thinking

00:26:09   it would be a huge difference

00:26:10   I would actually value quite a lot.

00:26:12   But now that I'm seeing real world situations

00:26:14   of the telephoto lens and of the OLED screen,

00:26:16   I'm realizing, yeah, actually,

00:26:17   I probably didn't need these things.

00:26:19   - And those colors.

00:26:21   - Yeah, they come in really good colors.

00:26:23   They look really good.

00:26:24   - I really want the red one.

00:26:25   - Yeah, the red's interesting too,

00:26:27   'cause it's the only color we had before.

00:26:28   'Cause the red 10R seems like it's basically

00:26:31   the product red eight.

00:26:32   Like as far as color and sort of finish.

00:26:35   You know, for me, I thought about the 10R

00:26:39   for a little while thinking that, okay,

00:26:41   everybody I work with, podcast or tech people,

00:26:44   are gonna do the 10S or the Max.

00:26:46   And I thought it'd be interesting to have

00:26:48   the point of view of a 10R user.

00:26:50   But I do use a telephoto lens.

00:26:52   I agree with you that the difference is more noticeable now.

00:26:56   It totally is.

00:26:57   But there are sometimes I can get a shot

00:26:59   of one of my kids doing something or something funny

00:27:02   or you know like, I don't know, some sort of wildlife.

00:27:05   I don't know, like somewhere where I can be--

00:27:07   - Wildlife?

00:27:08   - You have a funny wildlife scene?

00:27:08   - I live in Tennessee.

00:27:09   - It's like-- - Okay.

00:27:10   - It's full of funny wildlife.

00:27:11   - Yeah.

00:27:12   - Yeah, have you ever seen armadillo?

00:27:13   They're hilarious.

00:27:14   (laughing)

00:27:16   Good little, anyways.

00:27:18   So I like the options it gives me.

00:27:20   I will use the wide angle if that

00:27:22   will work for the situation.

00:27:24   But I like having the option.

00:27:26   And so yeah, I went with the Max.

00:27:29   And I'm happy with it.

00:27:30   I'm not going to change over.

00:27:32   You mentioned being happy.

00:27:34   I like being happy.

00:27:36   We like to talk about happy things in the show.

00:27:38   We have a happy arm and to layer on.

00:27:41   But for now, thinking about these phones

00:27:43   and comparing them, Stephen had the idea earlier.

00:27:45   why don't we each pick a phone that made us the happiest?

00:27:49   Which iPhone over its history made us the happiest?

00:27:53   - But the idea is it made you the happiest

00:27:55   when it was new.

00:27:57   So like, because that factors out,

00:27:59   like what I would do is like, well,

00:28:00   this one would be happy,

00:28:01   but this one's more like historically important.

00:28:03   I can sound smart, so I'll pick that.

00:28:05   (laughing)

00:28:09   Please subscribe to my YouTube channel.

00:28:11   But, so something that like we were just happy

00:28:14   with out of the gate.

00:28:15   So Myke, do you wanna go first?

00:28:17   - The iPhone 3G, I got up at 5 a.m. to go get that phone.

00:28:22   I waited in line in the cold, right?

00:28:25   So this is the second iPhone.

00:28:27   I had an original iPhone.

00:28:28   - Right.

00:28:29   - But the iPhone 3G, I mean, it came with the App Store,

00:28:34   and I know that they came at the same time,

00:28:36   but like, I remember getting my iPhone 3G

00:28:39   and setting up the App Store

00:28:40   and downloading like Super Monkey Ball.

00:28:42   And like, it was--

00:28:43   - It's everyone's first app.

00:28:44   - Incredible, right?

00:28:45   Like, it was so excited.

00:28:47   Like, I remember vividly like standing outside

00:28:50   an O2 store, which is a carrier in England.

00:28:53   'Cause at first, they were the only place

00:28:55   you could get them, right?

00:28:57   Like, we had one carrier, like AT&T, right?

00:29:01   So you had to go to one of their stores.

00:29:03   And so I remember waiting outside,

00:29:05   and there was like a couple of people there,

00:29:07   and the line grew, and nobody knew how many

00:29:09   the store was gonna have, right?

00:29:11   So it was like, will there be two?

00:29:13   'cause it was like that, so then, right?

00:29:15   Like you had no idea if the store would have

00:29:18   like a small handful of them.

00:29:20   And it also had GPS.

00:29:23   And I was leaving later on that afternoon

00:29:26   for my first kind of like trip without my parents,

00:29:30   and was going to Paris.

00:29:31   And the idea, and it worked out,

00:29:33   having GPS with the maps was awesome

00:29:36   because before you had to just kind of work it out

00:29:38   on your own, right?

00:29:39   Like, I guess I can read maps now or at least try.

00:29:42   And so like that phone, like thinking back to it, like it hit at just the right time.

00:29:47   It came with a bunch of incredible enhancements, like the beginning of the app store, right?

00:29:53   Like having a phone that was just what Apple gave you for so long, and then it had all this other stuff to it.

00:29:58   And it hit me at a time when like I was like saving for an entire year to get it.

00:30:04   Like it was just kind of like the perfect thing.

00:30:07   And it came in, did it come in two colors?

00:30:10   It came in black, and I believe the larger size you get in white, but just the larger

00:30:15   capacity.

00:30:16   I've probably got the white.

00:30:17   I think I got the white one.

00:30:18   I've got 3GS in white, and it looks good.

00:30:20   And it's the only iPhone that I kept for a couple of years.

00:30:24   I didn't get the 3GS.

00:30:25   I love my 3G.

00:30:26   It was great.

00:30:27   Rocking that original processor.

00:30:29   Mm-hmm.

00:30:30   No video.

00:30:31   Yep.

00:30:32   What about you, Marco?

00:30:33   I really...

00:30:35   The iPhone 4 holds a special place in my heart, because I loved Retina, but I think the one

00:30:39   that was kind of the most mind-blowing for me that kind of gave me that like

00:30:44   satisfaction like this is amazing is the iPhone 5 I don't think it gets a lot of

00:30:48   credit like historically because it wasn't that important really like for a

00:30:52   lot of the stuff but at the time like that was the first screen size change

00:30:55   and the screen just seemed massive which is hilarious now when you look at the SE

00:30:59   like it now looks like a skyscraper I know right but like I can fit one more

00:31:04   email on screen. I think it grew by like 88 points or something like that. So it was like

00:31:09   one table row, it was very small. But it was a big deal at the time.

00:31:15   We got like an extra row of apps on the home screen as well.

00:31:17   Exactly.

00:31:18   I remember when they announced it, it was like on, I remember these things, it was on

00:31:22   a pedestal and they spin it around and I freaked out when I saw there was an extra app. I was

00:31:27   like, "Yes! Home screen editions!"

00:31:29   Yeah, because the first screen size change really changed a lot about iOS and it was

00:31:33   It was pretty easy for apps to adopt also,

00:31:35   so it wasn't, he didn't have a long time

00:31:37   or nothing was made for it.

00:31:38   And it also just felt really good in your hand.

00:31:44   It was the first one that had the all metal design.

00:31:46   Like you had the plastic ones first,

00:31:47   well the metal plastic, then the plastic,

00:31:49   then the 4 series had the glass backs,

00:31:51   and this one had that metal back.

00:31:52   So not only did it feel really smooth all the way around,

00:31:55   it also, if you remember, it felt impossibly light.

00:31:59   Like, 'cause the 4 having double glass,

00:32:01   that actually was pretty dense, pretty heavy.

00:32:03   The 5 was a bigger phone that actually was noticeably slimmer and felt really light in

00:32:08   your hand.

00:32:09   It was the first space grey too, right?

00:32:10   Well, that was the black one.

00:32:11   Black, black, black.

00:32:12   And the 5s looked way better, but with the actual grey and everything.

00:32:15   But the 5, for the actual transition, it was also the first LTE phone.

00:32:19   Oh yeah.

00:32:20   Like, before that, you only had LTE and the iPad 3, which sucked.

00:32:24   And this was like, it was finally like good LTE with the low power chipset and everything.

00:32:28   So it was a really good phone.

00:32:30   It really moved forward in a number of major ways.

00:32:32   I remember like standing around in certain places like holding that phone. I remember like at like a certain mall

00:32:37   I was like I just have this snapshot in my head like holding my iPhone 5 and feel like man

00:32:40   This is I can't believe it's so light. It felt like it was empty. It was really cool

00:32:43   Yeah, that's a really good pick. Actually. I think the five is it was I

00:32:47   Well, the design was so good. It stuck around for the SC right like yeah, just kept going

00:32:52   It was a great design. It's also the first with lightning. So it's kind of the first like modern

00:32:57   Connector on the phone. I didn't think about that. You're right. Yeah, I'm a thotty pin rest in peace 30-50

00:33:02   Can you like press in the sides?

00:33:04   Yeah

00:33:07   It's like a scuzzy cable

00:33:09   Get in you gotta have a Terminator because it was one orientation only right you would somehow put it in three times to get it

00:33:17   Right. It's like USB. Oh man. Thotty pin. Mine is a very specific pick. What a surprise

00:33:25   So mine is the Verizon iPhone 4

00:33:28   It's a great phone

00:33:35   importantly the antenna brakes were

00:33:37   Even on both sides it was symmetrical like the four that had the three the three brakes. That's really important to me is who I am

00:33:44   So I had I had leading up probably I had an iPhone 3GS, but sometime in the 3GS era

00:33:51   I actually had to leave AT&T for like coverage reasons for something that was important in my life at the time

00:33:57   And I had to move to Verizon

00:33:59   There was like no way around this like my phone strip didn't work at a place that I spent

00:34:03   Hours and hours where we really needed my phone to work. Yeah, and there's kind of stuck and so I

00:34:10   experimented with Android I bought a the real mistakes

00:34:15   the original Motorola Droid

00:34:19   - Droid.

00:34:19   - Droid.

00:34:20   (audience laughing)

00:34:23   - Well, I remember those ads,

00:34:30   like we shielded our children from the ads.

00:34:32   - So aggressive.

00:34:33   - It's not gonna come kill you in your sleep.

00:34:36   The Droid was a solid phone.

00:34:38   - That was a cool looking phone.

00:34:39   - It was a phone Batman would use.

00:34:41   It was like black and metal and gold.

00:34:43   Had a pretty terrible slight of horizontal keyboard.

00:34:46   But then, then I stepped from the Android universe

00:34:51   into the Garden of Eden that was WebOS.

00:34:55   And I carried--

00:34:56   - You just made like a real left hand.

00:34:58   He's like, "Oh, I went back to the iPhone."

00:34:59   No, no, there's an important step.

00:35:02   - The Palm Pre Plus was on Verizon.

00:35:06   It ran WebOS.

00:35:07   WebOS is a really sad story,

00:35:09   but so many of the ideas that were

00:35:12   sort of instigated in WebOS are things we all have today.

00:35:15   like using the web technologies more integrated

00:35:19   into modern stuff and having multitasking with cards

00:35:23   and like a fluid gesture interface.

00:35:25   All that started with webOS.

00:35:26   The phone was really bad.

00:35:28   - And no apps.

00:35:29   - And no apps.

00:35:30   Palm went away.

00:35:32   - They're back?

00:35:33   - No, they're not.

00:35:34   Their name is, but they're dead.

00:35:35   (audience laughing)

00:35:36   So all this is going on right now

00:35:38   and I wanna be back on the iPhone,

00:35:40   but I just can't do it.

00:35:42   And then in January 2011, they announced,

00:35:46   in a very low-key way, that hey,

00:35:48   Verizon iPhone 4 is gonna be out next month.

00:35:52   I pre-ordered one, it showed up,

00:35:54   and I still have my Droid and Palm Pre.

00:35:57   I pull them out sometimes.

00:35:58   - That is a surprise that you kept those.

00:36:00   (audience laughing)

00:36:01   - Seems out of character.

00:36:01   - Yeah, that's really weird.

00:36:04   - The Palm Pre was a vertical slider,

00:36:05   so you slid it up and the keyboard would come out.

00:36:08   And I was always afraid I was gonna slide it up

00:36:09   and it would just separate.

00:36:10   - It was like shoot, shoot the top part of the phone.

00:36:12   - It was shaped like a bar of soap.

00:36:14   - Into the sky, it was like well that's gone, bye.

00:36:16   (audience laughs)

00:36:17   So I still have them both, but yeah,

00:36:18   the Verizon iPhone 4, 'cause I could come back to the iPhone

00:36:21   and that really started a period where the iPhone

00:36:25   was spreading to new carriers, and not just in the US,

00:36:29   it was in the UK and other places,

00:36:30   all of a sudden in more places, so it's an important phone,

00:36:33   but for me it was like I can come back to the iPhone

00:36:35   and I haven't left since.

00:36:37   - So that wasn't--

00:36:39   - You gonna applaud the Verizon iPhone 4?

00:36:41   (audience applauding)

00:36:43   - No. - 'Cause I had one person

00:36:43   applaud it and I felt bad.

00:36:45   I was like, oh, we need to--

00:36:46   - 'Cause then it makes it sound like you won that.

00:36:48   (audience laughing)

00:36:50   You didn't win that.

00:36:51   You couldn't even get that.

00:36:52   - This part will be edited out.

00:36:54   - Okay.

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00:37:57   and Real AFM.

00:37:58   (audience applauding)

00:38:02   - Okay, so we are going to transition now

00:38:07   into talking about the event next week.

00:38:09   - Kind of. - Kind of.

00:38:11   So this is not a draft because Jason Snell

00:38:15   would not license the draft technology to us.

00:38:17   - Copyright.

00:38:19   - But this is a measure of what things

00:38:22   would make us happiest out of the event.

00:38:24   These things do not necessarily have to be rooted

00:38:28   in reality, as we will discover,

00:38:30   but things that we would like to see

00:38:31   and things that would just make us smile

00:38:34   as Phil Schiller announces them.

00:38:36   So obviously as we all know graded on the best I love you teachy scale

00:38:40   So, you know, we'll be aware of that. We'll talk about it maybe next week on the teachy scale

00:38:45   So as always the only scale the true scale. Yes

00:38:49   So we have a couple of rounds and as our guest Marco, would you like to go first?

00:38:55   I would I think everyone here is gonna know what I'm gonna say

00:38:58   iPads close

00:39:01   I'll give you a hint though. You have a keyboard over there that you might want to keep some dust out of

00:39:06   of. So I should let you know that that laptop you sold me is getting stuck again.

00:39:13   Just want to let you know. I told you it would. I know. I like it because when it

00:39:18   gets stuck I think of you. Oh good. It's nice. You smash your elbow into the key.

00:39:23   Yeah so my first pick for what would make me happiest here is fixing the low

00:39:27   end laptop. Like right now it's been a mess for so long with like the MacBook

00:39:31   Air hanging around forever, the 12 inch MacBook not really being a replacement

00:39:35   for it, then the 13 inch MacBook escape coming out and also not really being a replacement

00:39:39   for it, and the Air just keeps being sold forever.

00:39:43   And so I...

00:39:44   It is like a zombie at this point.

00:39:45   It really is.

00:39:46   It's like it looks weird, and like it won't go away, it's very strange.

00:39:49   But like people aren't being like dumb, it's still a really compelling computer.

00:39:54   And they haven't made one that is more compelling for a huge part of the market, right?

00:39:58   So there's a reason it's still being sold, I think they need to end that reason, finally.

00:40:02   And so what I want is for them to fix the low-end laptop

00:40:06   by releasing something new that fits that market in the way

00:40:10   it actually demands things and in a way that actually

00:40:13   would be a good product.

00:40:14   Because the Air has been a good product this whole time,

00:40:17   for eight years since that body style was introduced.

00:40:19   They need to fix that.

00:40:20   They need to give it a price that fits its market.

00:40:23   It needs to be as versatile as the Air was.

00:40:26   And that might be about ports or something.

00:40:29   But it also needs to have reliability,

00:40:32   'cause the Air is being used by people

00:40:33   not only who need that, like everyone does really,

00:40:36   but value conscious people need it more than most people

00:40:39   'cause they maybe can't afford to replace it as often

00:40:41   or get a service out of warranty.

00:40:42   - It's kind of interesting that you,

00:40:44   it's the low end laptop,

00:40:46   but that should mean it should last longer.

00:40:48   - Yeah, and it's gonna be put in schools and given to kids.

00:40:51   It gets so much use where durability really matters

00:40:56   and serviceability down the road is gonna matter too.

00:40:57   So it needs to have a non-butterfly keyboard.

00:41:01   - Ooh.

00:41:02   So,

00:41:05   in the idea of this is the Happy-O-Meter,

00:41:10   so it's just whatever makes you happiest,

00:41:11   is this a new keyboard or the old keyboard?

00:41:15   - Don't care.

00:41:16   It can be like, the one they make in the Magic keyboard,

00:41:20   the desktop version, that's a scissor keyboard,

00:41:22   and it's good, it's fine.

00:41:24   You know, it still has the weird arrow key layout,

00:41:25   but okay, I know I can't get everything I want here.

00:41:29   - You know, no, and in the Happy-O-Meter,

00:41:30   you can have whatever you want.

00:41:32   That's what this is all about.

00:41:33   This is just whatever makes Marco the happiest.

00:41:36   - At this point, I have such low expectations

00:41:38   on the keyboards.

00:41:38   - Oh no.

00:41:39   - Anything that's a totally new keyboard

00:41:42   would make me happiest.

00:41:43   - Okay.

00:41:44   - It'll be made of glass, good luck.

00:41:45   - Oh God, touchscreen.

00:41:47   - That was my pick, but we let Marco go first

00:41:51   'cause he's the guest and we have to be nice.

00:41:53   So I'm going to, I'm gonna stay in the Mac family

00:41:57   And I'm just gonna go, I'm putting all my tips on the table

00:42:01   for a modern Mac Mini.

00:42:03   So this is not just, we got some Mac Mini crowd fans here.

00:42:08   - You have the entire customer base in this first floor.

00:42:11   (audience laughing)

00:42:13   And literally nobody would use it

00:42:15   for what Apple intends it to be used for.

00:42:18   It's like, oh, I'm gonna put it in a closet

00:42:19   and I'm gonna run the server on it.

00:42:21   It's like, that's not what the product is,

00:42:22   but like go for it.

00:42:24   - Put it in a car, you can do all sorts of crazy things.

00:42:26   - So I'm drawing a distinction here between,

00:42:29   hey, we just put last year's Intel tips in it, have fun.

00:42:33   This is the, the happy version is,

00:42:36   it is a truly modern Mac inside.

00:42:39   That means the T2 with the fast SSD,

00:42:43   it means Thunderbolt 3, because it's a desktop,

00:42:47   this also means USB-A, because the iMac Pro

00:42:49   and the iMacs have Thunderbolt 3 and USB-A,

00:42:52   just side by side, they don't even fight,

00:42:54   they're just like right next to each other.

00:42:55   - Imagine that harmony amongst both.

00:42:57   There's peace in dongle town.

00:42:59   - That's right.

00:43:00   (audience laughing)

00:43:03   That's good.

00:43:05   And I would like to see all of that in a form factor

00:43:07   that again, it's just more modern.

00:43:10   That probably just means space gray,

00:43:11   which would look awesome.

00:43:12   But the Mac Mini, I saw this on upgrade the other night,

00:43:15   it is built around the optical drive

00:43:17   that they removed in 2011.

00:43:19   Like it's still that form factor

00:43:22   and we've seen what others can do now

00:43:24   with much more powerful hardware.

00:43:26   And so I think truly a Mac Mini for our modern age

00:43:31   would really make me happy

00:43:32   'cause I'm in the market for two of them now.

00:43:35   Can I tell this story?

00:43:36   - Yeah.

00:43:37   - So if you're listening to the live stream now,

00:43:38   that is hosted by our friends at Mac Stadium

00:43:41   and the Mac Mini there, that we've had there.

00:43:44   The ethernet died on it.

00:43:46   So we're streaming through a dongle.

00:43:48   (laughing)

00:43:49   And that really, really makes me feel uncomfortable.

00:43:52   - I like it.

00:43:53   I like it. It's fun.

00:43:55   Stupid danger.

00:43:57   It feels that way.

00:43:59   Maybe we can get some flames painted on the side of the dongle.

00:44:01   Oh, it goes faster.

00:44:03   Do you honestly think the new Mac Mini wouldn't require a dongle for Ethernet?

00:44:07   In the happy land, Marco, it has 10 gigabit Ethernet.

00:44:11   Just like my iMac Pro.

00:44:13   This is an expensive machine you're building out here.

00:44:15   This Mac Mini costs $4,000.

00:44:17   No, in all seriousness, the Mac Mini has a regionally conceived,

00:44:21   like you mentioned this in Upgrade,

00:44:23   it was originally conceived as like this cheap Mac desktop

00:44:26   to attract Windows users.

00:44:27   So the whole point of the machine was to be cheap

00:44:30   to attract desktop users.

00:44:31   - It was to slot into something that already existed, right?

00:44:33   - Right, that market barely exists anymore.

00:44:36   And what the Mac Mini needs to do now

00:44:39   is not necessarily to be super cheap

00:44:42   because low-end buyers tend to buy things

00:44:43   like the MacBook Air.

00:44:44   They send them by low-end laptops instead.

00:44:46   So what it needs to be is the gap filler.

00:44:50   It needs to cover a whole bunch of different uses

00:44:52   that the other machines just can't

00:44:53   because of their physical size and attributes, right?

00:44:56   It doesn't necessarily have to be super cheap.

00:44:58   So they could make a machine that has high-end specs,

00:45:01   and this was rumored to be the quote,

00:45:03   pro-focus configuration for the Mac Mini.

00:45:05   I think that makes a lot of sense.

00:45:06   They could make a version of this that they,

00:45:08   first of all, can keep up to date a little more often,

00:45:11   but like, give it all the ports.

00:45:13   - Thermal corners, they backed themselves

00:45:13   into a real thermal corner with the Mac Mini.

00:45:15   - Yeah, right. (audience laughing)

00:45:16   - Sharp corners.

00:45:18   - Yeah, right, it doesn't need to be super cool,

00:45:22   it doesn't need to be super tiny,

00:45:23   it doesn't need to be super cheap,

00:45:25   it just needs to be very versatile.

00:45:26   So put in a vote here for lots of ports.

00:45:29   - So, done with this Mac stuff.

00:45:31   (audience laughing)

00:45:33   Nonsense.

00:45:34   So we're expecting iPad hardware, that'd be great.

00:45:39   Very excited about iPad hardware, like,

00:45:42   I have a huge hole in my 12.9 inch,

00:45:45   it's like a massive hole above the home button because I just destroyed the screen.

00:45:50   The screen is just destroyed and I keep sticking my finger into the iPad which is,

00:45:55   I don't need to be that close to it. I love it but like...

00:45:58   Force touch!

00:45:59   It is forceful. I would love to see some iPad software changes that goes along with this.

00:46:05   Like we're expecting a pro machine, like USB-C apparently now.

00:46:12   If you're gonna do that, there's a bunch of really interesting things that could happen with USB-C.

00:46:17   Like, I don't know if I necessarily care about external displays that much.

00:46:22   If that's all it does, like you give me an external display, like what about some other input methods?

00:46:27   What about being able to access the Files app? Like wouldn't that be a lot of fun?

00:46:31   What if we just, let's just go wild and let's just change the home screen?

00:46:36   Like why don't we just do it? You know?

00:46:38   I think that, I just think that if we're gonna have this like iPhone 10-y style iPad, right,

00:46:46   like it's really cool, like super futuristic, it might look a bit weird with just like this

00:46:51   big app icon grid, like oh look at it, like it just doesn't really seem that exciting.

00:46:56   I'm still hoping and expecting, definitely expecting, that WWDC will see all this stuff,

00:47:02   but maybe just, just throw me a bone or two, you know, there's like oh there's a couple of new

00:47:06   things that come with like 12.1 or 12.2,

00:47:10   which are just iPad software stuff.

00:47:12   I would be very happy about that.

00:47:13   - I mean, the iPad definitely seems to be on a year on,

00:47:16   year off cycle with software.

00:47:18   - Yeah.

00:47:19   - But the sort of the wild hair there is the,

00:47:23   what was it, the 10.2 or two?

00:47:26   - It was 10.3, the Advillet Classroom stuff

00:47:28   and things like that.

00:47:29   - Yeah, and so there is some precedent for them

00:47:30   to do sort of a mid-cycle thing on the iPad.

00:47:33   And I think that would be, I think that'd be great.

00:47:36   You know, I think that the iPad for me

00:47:41   is held back by some pretty fundamental things,

00:47:43   and that's not hardware.

00:47:44   The hardware is great.

00:47:46   Like, my 10.5 inch iPad Pro is way more powerful

00:47:49   than I need it to be,

00:47:51   and this one's gonna be even more so,

00:47:52   assumedly, but what's holding it back,

00:47:55   I think for a lot of us,

00:47:56   are these like basic software things.

00:47:58   Like, great, I have USB-C,

00:47:59   but I have an SD card here,

00:48:01   and I can't make them work together,

00:48:03   which is silly.

00:48:04   they need to open this device up to external things to make it a better

00:48:11   citizen of the world and not just be like a closed off island and I really

00:48:15   hope that USB C is like the bridge to that future. Because it's just super

00:48:20   weird if like you put a universal port on it but it only works with like a

00:48:24   monitor. It'd be disappointing and and so yeah I'm on I'm on board with

00:48:30   this 100% because I like things like editing audio like yeah I can put on

00:48:34   on Dropbox, I'm gonna be like, I have it on an SD card,

00:48:36   like I'm recording an SD card right now,

00:48:39   and sort of like shoving it into the inside of your iPad,

00:48:41   there's no way to get it in.

00:48:43   - And also, what if you're on a plane?

00:48:44   Or what if you're in an area that doesn't have good

00:48:47   cell coverage, I mean like, it's nice to be able,

00:48:49   you can't just rely on cloud storage for everything

00:48:52   when you have literally like, here's a memory card,

00:48:55   here's an iPad, there's files on this, I need to get here,

00:48:58   and there's no way I can do that

00:48:59   without involving the internet, that's weird.

00:49:01   - And I know you guys use SD cards a lot,

00:49:03   that's why you're focusing on it but like when you put if you put USB C on

00:49:07   this thing it's hard drives like actual just hard drives that are USB C you just

00:49:11   plug you should plug it in something should have an SSD raid right to an iPad

00:49:15   sure I mean awesome there's a lot of data you got to deal with yeah you just

00:49:20   tape it to the back tape like a few of the Samsung t2 drives oh yeah oh now

00:49:25   we're talking that'd be that'd be great yeah people been asking for expansion

00:49:31   Alright Marco you're up. Alright so this is round two. My happy thing next

00:49:38   whatever we're calling this, not a draft. Not a draft. Not a draft. Just happy stuff. I want to see a

00:49:42   completely redesigned Apple pencil and so if you look here at Myke's iPad here

00:49:49   there's an iPad there's an Apple pencil that is stuck to the top of it in like a

00:49:54   notebook pen loop. It is the Leuchtturm 1917 pen loop Marco. Yes.

00:49:59   so it is also enclosed in a metal like pen shaped barrel shield thing that goes

00:50:07   around the kavaco grip naturally right like the number of hacks that he's has

00:50:15   to they have to do to make this thing feel good in the hand comfortable to use

00:50:20   and always with him not to mention the fact that we haven't seen it charge yet

00:50:24   I stand by the charging. I stand by the charging. So it's you know. Now your pencil is paired with his iPad.

00:50:32   Sorry, I think our friendship reached a new level.

00:50:38   So you know the pencil as it stands now is amazing technology

00:50:44   that's really nice to use but it just sucks to carry it with the iPad.

00:50:49   There's just no good way to carry it and it's always getting discharged because if you carry it anywhere

00:50:54   near the iPad, it'll keep itself kind of paired, sort of,

00:50:56   and then it'll discharge itself.

00:50:58   And charging it is really awkward and weird.

00:50:59   And so, not to mention, you have this little cap

00:51:02   that you pop that off, and that's gone.

00:51:03   You lost that forever.

00:51:05   And it comes with a little dongle, a little reverse adapter

00:51:08   to be able to plug into a lightning port.

00:51:09   - I'm terrified he's about to lose the cap of my own.

00:51:11   - I know, right?

00:51:12   So there's so much about this that is fiddly.

00:51:14   And there's all these little parts to lose.

00:51:16   There's the weird way you can't carry it easily

00:51:18   with the iPad, and there's the charging issue.

00:51:20   I want them to fix this.

00:51:22   I want them to design a new iPad and Apple Pencil

00:51:25   that actually seem like they were designed to be together

00:51:28   instead of what we have now,

00:51:29   which seems like these were designed on different planets.

00:51:31   So make it more convenient to carry with the iPad.

00:51:33   Maybe there's that, maybe that magnet thing

00:51:35   that's rumored for the back of it,

00:51:36   maybe you can stamp it on there,

00:51:37   like the Microsoft tablet things do, that works fine,

00:51:40   as long as it's strong enough

00:51:41   to actually keep it there like in a bag.

00:51:43   So make it more convenient to keep with you,

00:51:45   more convenient to keep charged,

00:51:47   and with fewer fiddly bits and parts to lose.

00:51:51   - Yeah, I love the Apple Pencil,

00:51:53   but decided that it was flawed in a bunch of ways.

00:51:57   So what I have done is make the Apple Pencil that I want.

00:52:01   - You've made a monster.

00:52:02   - No, it's beautiful.

00:52:03   The Kaweco grip thing is really nice.

00:52:05   Like I actually think it has all of the features that I want.

00:52:08   It has a much nicer grip,

00:52:10   which is more comfortable to hold, and it's faceted.

00:52:14   So it won't roll away because that weight thing is nonsense.

00:52:18   Like it rolls, it will roll away.

00:52:19   It's a perfect circle, it will roll.

00:52:21   So I would love this.

00:52:26   I would love a button or two on it

00:52:29   to add additional functions in a lot of applications.

00:52:31   It would be great.

00:52:32   I use a Wacom tablet with my iMac,

00:52:35   and I can select things and delete things,

00:52:37   and there's loads of different functions you can add to it.

00:52:38   This is something that Microsoft, I think,

00:52:40   and Google have on their stylus product.

00:52:43   But I really hope that Apple make an aluminum one.

00:52:47   It would be wonderful.

00:52:48   It can still be light and it would be really great looking.

00:52:50   They could charge more for it, come in colors.

00:52:52   It'd be great.

00:52:53   That's something I really hope for.

00:52:56   I don't think I'm gonna get made of the materials

00:52:58   that I want, but I do think that they will

00:53:01   make do at least some of the things

00:53:03   that you were asking for.

00:53:04   Hope so.

00:53:06   - I mean, it's one of those things like there's a whole world

00:53:08   of these devices Apple could look at

00:53:10   and find ways to improve it.

00:53:12   And it's very clear to me, the pencil is maybe

00:53:17   The first example that comes to mind for me

00:53:19   is this seems like it was designed in a vacuum.

00:53:22   Yeah.

00:53:22   Well, I don't want to move away from the fact

00:53:25   that thinking about-- version one of the Apple Pencil

00:53:28   is the best stylus anyone's ever made for a tablet.

00:53:31   The technology, the way that they paired it,

00:53:34   the responsiveness, the fact that you can tilt it to shade,

00:53:37   they did an incredible job with the inside technology

00:53:39   of this thing.

00:53:41   But now that's taken care of, they need to go further.

00:53:45   I hear you.

00:53:46   - That's good.

00:53:47   I'm gonna spend a little time with the iMac,

00:53:51   the regular iMac, not the iMac Pro.

00:53:53   - Back to the Mac.

00:53:54   - Back to the Mac.

00:53:55   (audience laughs)

00:53:57   I have a lot of complaints about the iMac line.

00:54:02   So if you walked into an Apple store with $1100

00:54:06   to buy an iMac, you would buy an iMac with no Retina display,

00:54:10   a spinning hard drive that is powered by turtles,

00:54:14   (laughing)

00:54:16   And like low RAM, it's not a great machine.

00:54:20   - Everybody here, it just went through the same thing

00:54:23   that I went through earlier today

00:54:24   when I didn't know this product existed.

00:54:26   - Yeah. - I didn't realize

00:54:27   they were still, I knew about the hard drive,

00:54:29   I didn't realize they were still selling

00:54:30   a non-retina iMac. - Yes.

00:54:31   So as you move up the line--

00:54:33   - What screen size is that?

00:54:34   - 21.5 inches.

00:54:36   - It's small as well, right? - For some reason.

00:54:37   It is small.

00:54:38   So let's talk about the entry level 4K machine.

00:54:43   also has a spinning hard drive as standard.

00:54:45   Not a fusion drive, and these are slow 5400 RPM drives.

00:54:50   I have actually used one of these more modern iMacs

00:54:55   with the slow drive, and this is not just like,

00:54:58   ooh, he's a nerd, it's really slow.

00:55:00   Like you get the beach ball

00:55:02   when you open system preferences.

00:55:03   - It feels like the hipster's iMac, right?

00:55:06   Like it's like-- - Yeah.

00:55:07   - Like steampunk? - Yeah.

00:55:08   It's like you hear this grinding inside,

00:55:11   like oh, it's working.

00:55:12   It's like crank on the back.

00:55:13   Oh, I just love the sound quality of the hard drive.

00:55:17   Like the cracks and pops.

00:55:19   It really adds a warmth to the data.

00:55:22   Yeah.

00:55:22   I mean, at this point, it should be illegal to sell hard drives.

00:55:25   It should literally be illegal to sell a computer that only

00:55:28   has a spinning hard drive in 2018.

00:55:30   I really like my artisanally crafted data loss.

00:55:32   [LAUGHTER]

00:55:36   So what would make-- so the iMac is

00:55:39   do for processor upgrades, those chips are available.

00:55:44   I fully expect to see them.

00:55:45   I would like the core count to go up.

00:55:48   But especially in this low end of the line,

00:55:52   you've got to get rid of the non-retina one.

00:55:54   Sell it to kids in education only, whatever.

00:55:56   But if you walk into an Apple store,

00:55:58   you should not be able to buy a non-retina iMac.

00:56:00   And I understand that apparently we're still

00:56:03   in fusion drive world.

00:56:05   The fusion drive should be standard across the line.

00:56:08   you should not be able to buy a machine

00:56:11   that boots from a hard drive.

00:56:12   The only two that do are this El Cheapo iMac

00:56:17   and the Mac Mini.

00:56:18   And I feel like if the Mac Mini is gonna be updated

00:56:21   to at least a Fusion Drive or in my world,

00:56:23   like the dual SSD modules,

00:56:26   this iMac's gotta come along for the ride

00:56:28   at least to the Fusion Drive land.

00:56:29   - It is kind of funny that like,

00:56:31   I mean the Mac Mini has a hard drive

00:56:32   because the Mac Mini's so old.

00:56:33   - Right.

00:56:34   - This iMac is not that old.

00:56:35   - It was revised not that long ago.

00:56:36   And so it's, you know, to me, I just think about

00:56:40   the person coming to the Mac for the first time,

00:56:42   and they're not buying, probably,

00:56:44   they're not buying the iMac Pro,

00:56:45   they're not buying the MacBook Pro with Touch Bar,

00:56:48   especially if they're a student or they're, you know,

00:56:50   maybe they're a young adult, you know,

00:56:51   kinda out on their own for the first time,

00:56:53   and they need a new Mac.

00:56:54   - Or a family machine.

00:56:55   - Or a family machine, absolutely.

00:56:57   That's a pretty bad experience.

00:57:00   And if it's someone's first experience with the Mac,

00:57:03   or the first one that they've bought for themselves,

00:57:05   Is that the impression Apple wants to leave?

00:57:07   I don't think it is because these machines

00:57:10   are just not responsive, they're slow,

00:57:13   they're more prone for data loss.

00:57:15   It's just not a good look.

00:57:16   And so I think it would make me really happy

00:57:18   with all the processor stuff and six core on the high end.

00:57:21   Fix this low-end iMac mess and make these entry models

00:57:25   something that Apple could be proud of.

00:57:28   - I'm actually optimistic that this might be the time

00:57:30   for that because they're clearly going through

00:57:32   a major Mac architectural transition

00:57:35   where they're clearly gonna spread

00:57:37   the T2 architecture far and wide.

00:57:38   Like what they wanna do is get all the Macs

00:57:40   on this T series architecture,

00:57:42   but for lots of security reasons,

00:57:44   and just the amazing SSD performance and everything else.

00:57:46   It's a great architecture,

00:57:47   and they're pushing hard on it right now.

00:57:49   That's why I think we're seeing a MacBook Air replacement

00:57:52   and a Mac Mini replacement this fall,

00:57:54   because I think they want to,

00:57:56   for lots of security reasons,

00:57:58   I think as fast as possible,

00:57:59   they wanna get all the Macs sold on the T2 land.

00:58:02   And I don't see them shipping this T2 architecture

00:58:06   with support for spinning hard drives.

00:58:07   So I'm guessing that the,

00:58:10   all new Macs from this point forward,

00:58:13   not only have the T2, but don't have spinning hard drives.

00:58:16   And if they're gonna go through that kind of update

00:58:18   for the iMac, please change the retina screen,

00:58:20   exchange the retina screen.

00:58:22   'Cause if they drop the spinning hard drive

00:58:24   and still sell non-retina, I will cry.

00:58:26   (laughing)

00:58:27   - Darren, like is this the same in the MacBook Air?

00:58:30   There shouldn't be Macs with non-retina screens now.

00:58:32   - Right, and I think we're finally, I mean look,

00:58:34   the first Retina product was the iPhone 4 in 2010.

00:58:38   The first Retina Mac was 2012.

00:58:40   It's been a while.

00:58:41   We shouldn't have any more non-Retina devices

00:58:44   from Apple anymore.

00:58:45   - I want iPad trackpad support.

00:58:48   - All right.

00:58:49   (audience applauding)

00:58:50   - So, it's a couple of things.

00:58:52   I mean, one, just being able to scroll through web pages

00:58:56   would be nice, to be able to select text would be nice

00:58:58   in the way that you kind of can

00:59:00   with the software keyboard stuff.

00:59:02   But let's imagine that there's gonna be

00:59:03   external monitor support.

00:59:05   I would like my iPad to maybe be over there

00:59:08   and I could use a trackpad and could do everything.

00:59:10   Also, I have started to think kind of more seriously

00:59:13   about the ergonomic impact of these devices.

00:59:17   So I've been putting my iPad on a stand,

00:59:20   I'm using my Apple Pencil for a bunch of stuff,

00:59:22   but I would also really like to have a trackpad there to,

00:59:25   I mean, in the beginning, I guess at least,

00:59:28   to just allow me to do some basic stuff,

00:59:29   But ultimately when we start to see this weird

00:59:32   cross pollination of iPad and Mac apps,

00:59:35   then it might work really great to have a trackpad

00:59:38   with an iPad.

00:59:39   So that's what I would like very, very much,

00:59:41   very much in fact.

00:59:43   - I mean, the rest of the world is doing this, right?

00:59:46   You look at Google, you look at the--

00:59:47   - Yeah, we just saw that, like what is it?

00:59:48   The Pixel Slate?

00:59:49   - The Pixel Slate. - Has a trackpad?

00:59:51   - It's super buggy, but it's a story for a different time.

00:59:54   But the Surface is, I mean, you walk into a Best Buy,

00:59:56   anything you can buy running Windows 10 that's decent

00:59:59   is gonna have a touch screen,

01:00:00   but it's gonna retain the track pad.

01:00:02   And we're gonna take touch screen max

01:00:05   off the table for a second.

01:00:06   The iPad is coming at this from the other side

01:00:10   where it now feels a little out of place

01:00:13   that you have to reach up and touch the screen

01:00:15   for everything.

01:00:16   You know, users of these other devices,

01:00:19   like I see them, I got friends who use them,

01:00:21   and they move very fluidly from the screen

01:00:23   to the track pad to the keyboard,

01:00:26   and there's real benefit there to a user.

01:00:28   You know, for me it's the same as you.

01:00:31   It's the ergonomics of it.

01:00:32   And also sort of just the speed of it.

01:00:34   Like, if I can keep my hands horizontal,

01:00:37   I can work sort of more smoothly.

01:00:39   And it makes a ton of sense here.

01:00:41   And we could joke and say, oh well, you know,

01:00:44   what's a Mac, what's an iPad?

01:00:46   But the rest of the world doesn't--

01:00:48   - The move-in tools being the same thing.

01:00:49   - They are, probably.

01:00:50   Sorry Marco.

01:00:51   But the rest of the world doesn't--

01:00:53   - I thought you were on my team.

01:00:54   - I am.

01:00:54   (audience laughing)

01:00:56   The rest of the world doesn't care about these distinctions

01:01:00   and it seems old fashioned that Apple continues to.

01:01:02   - Really simple way to think of it,

01:01:04   every multi-touch gesture that you do on your iPad,

01:01:07   you can just move to a trackpad.

01:01:08   That's just a basic way to do it

01:01:10   and it'll work from there.

01:01:11   - Absolutely.

01:01:12   - Also I feel like it would dramatically improve

01:01:15   one of the iPad's biggest slowdowns

01:01:18   when you're trying to get a lot of stuff done,

01:01:19   which is text selection and text movement of cursors

01:01:22   and everything.

01:01:23   Having a trackpad with a cursor that could just say bam

01:01:25   and click right there, that would be so much faster.

01:01:28   Like I know you can use your finger,

01:01:29   but you have to wait for the insertion point to come up

01:01:31   and it's just slower and less precise.

01:01:33   So to have a fast, precise point input method

01:01:37   that could be tied into the text selection system

01:01:38   to make it work more like Macs and PCs do

01:01:41   would I think dramatically improve iPad productivity.

01:01:44   - Well 'cause the software version

01:01:45   on the software keyboard is wonderful,

01:01:47   but I use my iPads with hardware keyboards all the time,

01:01:49   like Apple Intents.

01:01:50   - Yeah, and like, me too, yeah.

01:01:52   And like when I got the iPad Pro

01:01:54   I got the smart keyboard with it that dramatically changed how much I use my iPad like I love it so much more

01:01:58   With a real physical keyboard. Yeah, I can I can get so much more done so much faster on it

01:02:03   That's one of the best keywords Apple makes it. Honestly it is I love the smart keyboard

01:02:07   It does can't get in underneath that fabric. Yeah, all of my keys have worked the entire time

01:02:11   You asked too much. Yeah

01:02:14   All right this episode we have one more round of pics

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01:04:02   [applause]

01:04:05   Alright Marco, your final pick for the happy armature please.

01:04:10   So while we're not ripping off Jason this is not the crazy round.

01:04:14   No.

01:04:14   but it is the more remote possibilities, I think.

01:04:18   - Yeah, I think so, looking at this.

01:04:20   - Well, we'll see.

01:04:21   - One of the recent rumors that came out a few days ago

01:04:23   is that Meng-Chi Kuo is predicting

01:04:25   that there might be a new iPad Mini.

01:04:27   (audience laughing and cheering)

01:04:31   I mean, this sounds as ridiculous as the Mac Mini, right?

01:04:34   But that's also rumored.

01:04:35   If there was a new iPad Mini,

01:04:37   that would make me very happy because,

01:04:39   I mean, since we're not picking things

01:04:40   that are totally unlikely in this round,

01:04:42   The market that wants the functionality of an iPad,

01:04:46   but doesn't want it to be this big, has not gone away.

01:04:49   That market is still there.

01:04:51   Backs have not gotten bigger. - There is a person

01:04:53   in my household who significantly believes in the iPad Mini

01:04:56   and will just not want it to go away.

01:04:59   - Yeah.

01:05:00   - And dinner is using an iPad Mini 2 very happily.

01:05:03   - Yeah, like, I don't know how.

01:05:05   - I think it has a spinning hard drive.

01:05:06   (laughing)

01:05:09   - It doesn't have touch ID.

01:05:10   - Yeah.

01:05:11   - Yeah, and actually, and my son uses that same model.

01:05:15   - Yep, like the same.

01:05:16   - And it's getting pretty old,

01:05:18   I'm kind of afraid to upgrade it to iOS 11.

01:05:21   And you know, I would like for his next iPad,

01:05:27   you know, he's six, so I think this might be a little big

01:05:30   for him to go to the 9.7 or 10.5 kind of class size.

01:05:34   I really want that size to continue to exist,

01:05:36   and for the last couple years,

01:05:37   it hasn't looked like it's going to.

01:05:39   and nothing will replace it.

01:05:42   So I really hope they actually do a new iPad Mini,

01:05:45   even though it would probably have lower end specs

01:05:47   than most of the iPads.

01:05:50   And they would still have a weird segmentation challenge

01:05:53   to prevent schools from just buying only them

01:05:56   because they're the cheapest one,

01:05:57   instead of buying the new 329 iPad or whatever that one is.

01:06:00   So I don't know how they would price it.

01:06:02   I don't know what they would put in it.

01:06:03   I don't know whether it would have pencil support

01:06:05   or anything pro like that.

01:06:07   I just want this product to keep existing

01:06:08   because there are people who use it who want that size

01:06:11   and for whom the big ones are too big.

01:06:13   - Just like the Mac Mini, like it really is,

01:06:16   they kind of like the mini lines,

01:06:18   this is kind of similar in that way.

01:06:19   There are people that really want them

01:06:20   and they're really old now, but they keep existing.

01:06:23   - Wait, the people or the devices?

01:06:24   (audience laughing)

01:06:27   - Both, I don't know.

01:06:28   - So I have a head canon for this

01:06:30   because the iPad Mini rumor did come up very last minute.

01:06:33   Of, you know, I would imagine that Tim Cook uses Siri,

01:06:37   you know, texting, you know, he's not gonna type,

01:06:40   he's too busy for that.

01:06:41   - Oh yeah.

01:06:42   - So he just, he tells Siri to the hardware team,

01:06:46   hey, you know, we're gonna make a new Mac Mini,

01:06:48   but Siri garbled it, and so he goes like six weeks later,

01:06:52   and they've made a new iPad Mini.

01:06:54   He's like, what are you doing?

01:06:55   We're supposed to do a Mac Mini,

01:06:56   and like, well, we already made this,

01:06:58   and so you might as well put it on sale.

01:07:00   That's my--

01:07:00   - I like that, that seems plausible.

01:07:02   - Hey, whatever it takes.

01:07:03   - Yeah.

01:07:04   - Yeah, it got Mini right, but you know,

01:07:06   Mac and iPad, it's confusing.

01:07:08   - So you mentioned Ming-Chi Kuo,

01:07:09   the prediction came out with a bunch of other stuff,

01:07:11   but Kuo is saying that it will have an upgraded processor

01:07:15   and a lower cost panel.

01:07:17   It might not be shown off next week,

01:07:19   he kinda says he's not sure about that,

01:07:21   but it is coming apparently.

01:07:23   - It could be a website refresh.

01:07:24   - Yeah, yeah, it doesn't need to be a big thing,

01:07:26   it doesn't need to be high end,

01:07:27   it doesn't need to be fancy,

01:07:29   it just needs to be like,

01:07:31   people who want this product

01:07:32   want to be able to keep buying them

01:07:34   with newer guts in them more than every 10 years.

01:07:37   Like if that's all it was,

01:07:38   just a processor and a different panel.

01:07:40   - That's enough.

01:07:41   - But it would be a waste of time to put it on stage, right?

01:07:43   Like you would have other stuff

01:07:45   that you could probably spend more time on.

01:07:46   - Yeah, when they introduced,

01:07:48   I think it was the iPad Mini 4,

01:07:50   it was with an iPad Air event.

01:07:51   I think, I'm pretty sure it was the 4.

01:07:53   It was like, oh, we also have the iPad Mini 4,

01:07:54   and Phil's like, what's an iPad Mini 4?

01:07:56   It's the Mini 3 with Touch ID.

01:07:58   Two sentences, 12 years ago, and we're still here.

01:08:02   (audience laughing)

01:08:03   I mean to be fair that really was all it was.

01:08:05   It's literally all it was.

01:08:06   I'm in the same boat.

01:08:08   My kids have an iPad mini too.

01:08:10   I did put iOS 12 on it.

01:08:11   Don't do that.

01:08:12   Thanks.

01:08:13   It's not good.

01:08:14   Also he's going to lose flight control.

01:08:15   Oh man.

01:08:17   Yeah keep him in the world where flight control exists.

01:08:20   Yeah.

01:08:21   Please.

01:08:22   This is a happy time.

01:08:23   Keep him happy.

01:08:24   This would be awesome.

01:08:26   I think too that obviously you have kids in schools and I agree with you I don't think

01:08:30   it'd have a pencil, but like I kind of wish it would.

01:08:34   Like the iPad mini is such a great size.

01:08:37   Like it'd be kind of a great to have like a little

01:08:38   like tablet for sketching and like I could see people

01:08:41   liking it 'cause it's extremely portable

01:08:43   and you could use it as a notebook,

01:08:45   like as actual like physical notebook replacement.

01:08:48   But I think that time's probably passed,

01:08:50   but it would make me happy to most definitely.

01:08:53   So mine, my last one, I'm leaning hard into

01:08:59   this makes us happy, this in no way is a prediction.

01:09:04   This in no way is a prediction.

01:09:06   I can't underscore that enough.

01:09:08   It would make me happy, it would make John Syracuse happy.

01:09:14   - Happiest of all.

01:09:15   - But most importantly, it would make Casey miserable.

01:09:18   (audience laughing)

01:09:21   I would love to see a Mac Pro preview.

01:09:25   Now, Mac Pro.

01:09:27   (audience applauding)

01:09:31   This is totally a WWDC thing

01:09:33   and it'll be out the end of the year.

01:09:34   I understand that.

01:09:36   But a boy can dream.

01:09:38   And this boy dreams of Mac Pros.

01:09:40   I have an iMac Pro, I'm extremely happy with it.

01:09:43   It will be my computer for a long time.

01:09:46   It's the best Mac I've ever owned.

01:09:47   I really love the all-in-one lifestyle.

01:09:49   Marco, you've been converted to this as well.

01:09:51   We just don't have cables everywhere.

01:09:53   It's like, it's all here and you can take it to the beach.

01:09:55   (audience laughing)

01:09:58   - Do whatever.

01:09:58   - I honestly wanted for that, that sounds awesome.

01:10:01   - But if this event is gonna make Mac people happy,

01:10:07   and I think it will, why not just go all the way?

01:10:10   Like why not make them all the way happy?

01:10:11   - 'Cause it's really far away.

01:10:13   - Why, why does it take so long to build a tower?

01:10:15   Like, Dell does 32 a week, like just do it!

01:10:19   (audience laughing)

01:10:20   You know?

01:10:21   - Triangles are pretty hard to build.

01:10:22   - Oh my gosh.

01:10:24   If they make a triangular Mac Pro, I am done.

01:10:27   (audience laughing)

01:10:29   I'm gonna build a Hackintosh.

01:10:30   - You know they're gonna do something weird.

01:10:32   You know, they can't just make a tower.

01:10:34   They can't swallow their pride.

01:10:36   Honestly, they're not confident enough to just make a tower.

01:10:39   They need to show off.

01:10:40   They need to do something crazy and innovative.

01:10:43   So it's gonna be something weird about it, you know there is.

01:10:46   - So I don't know about y'all, y'all referring

01:10:48   to the audience, but when I travel to different cities,

01:10:52   I end up in Apple stores.

01:10:53   Like, I've been to five in the last three days, and they're all amazing and different

01:10:59   in every way.

01:11:01   But there's a table in the Apple Store that I call the table of extremes.

01:11:08   There are four things on this table.

01:11:10   There's the regular iMac, which is fine, whatever.

01:11:13   They have the iMac Pro, which is like, go Team Space Gray.

01:11:17   But then they have a Mac Mini, just one,

01:11:21   and they have the 2013 Mac Pro.

01:11:24   (laughing)

01:11:25   Which I've never owned one,

01:11:28   both of these two gentlemen have.

01:11:30   Neither of them own it now.

01:11:31   (laughing)

01:11:33   And I see it and I'm just like, what happened?

01:11:36   And we know what happened, right?

01:11:39   We know that they designed something that was silly

01:11:41   and they couldn't put additional parts in.

01:11:43   - I was so excited to buy that machine.

01:11:45   - I know.

01:11:46   It was nothing but a problem. Like it did the worst thing any computer can do it just completely

01:11:56   would freeze. Just and lose recordings. Yeah well that yeah would lose all of my audio. The only

01:12:03   thing to do was to unplug it from the wall. Which is good for computers. They like that.

01:12:07   And it would do it like every two days. Yeah. And that Pro market is still hurting from that.

01:12:17   And the iMac Pro has taken care of some of us. Like, I want to see what the Mac Pro is,

01:12:22   but it's not on my radar as an upgrade. Like the iMac Pro...

01:12:25   Really?

01:12:26   Really. Like I really... I know like the thing on connected is "haha,

01:12:29   Steven buys things and returns them."

01:12:31   No, you will.

01:12:31   Marco and I are the same in this way. But the...

01:12:35   At least like I'm not under any delusion here. I know I'm gonna buy it.

01:12:37   (audience laughing)

01:12:38   - That's the difference between the two of us, maybe.

01:12:41   But I just think those people deserve to know

01:12:44   what's going on and it'd be great.

01:12:46   And it'd make me really happy because we could talk

01:12:49   about that instead of iPads.

01:12:50   Marco, let's do this.

01:12:53   Can we negotiate a trade for, I'll come on ATP

01:12:57   and talk about Mac Pros.

01:12:59   And Casey can come on Connected and talk about--

01:13:02   - That'll work. - About iPads.

01:13:03   - Jeeps. - Jeeps.

01:13:05   - Oh, there we go.

01:13:06   - I wanna talk to Casey about Jeeps.

01:13:07   - Oh, without you?

01:13:08   Yeah, that'd be weird.

01:13:09   - We should talk about Jeeps.

01:13:10   We gotta come up with some sort of system,

01:13:12   but I think it'd be great,

01:13:13   and I think people would be really enthusiastic about it.

01:13:16   And you know, Marco, you said this really smart thing

01:13:19   that I wish I had come up with,

01:13:20   so I just steal it from you all the time,

01:13:22   is like Apple is writing chapter after chapter

01:13:27   to Mac users, fixing things in the past,

01:13:29   or getting it back on track.

01:13:30   And this is like, I'm gonna mix my metaphors,

01:13:34   but this is like the crescendo.

01:13:36   This is like the final song.

01:13:37   Like this is the thing where everybody gets up and cheers

01:13:39   at the end, at least me and John.

01:13:41   And it's just time.

01:13:44   Like, you know, I'm sure we're gonna see it,

01:13:46   but I'd love to see it.

01:13:46   And now I've talked about the Mac Pro way longer

01:13:50   than anyone wants me to.

01:13:51   - It's not gonna happen.

01:13:53   - I know.

01:13:53   - I can tell you what I think will happen.

01:13:56   There will be a line given to Matt Pansarino

01:13:58   that they're working on.

01:13:59   - Yeah, he's got the inside line on the Mac Pro.

01:14:02   - Like, I think if there is a bunch of Mac stuff,

01:14:05   Like, they will acknowledge that it is still on the way.

01:14:09   - Yeah.

01:14:10   - But I don't, I mean, the best place,

01:14:12   if they're gonna show any teaser for this, is WWDC.

01:14:15   - Do you know the story about,

01:14:16   so when he did the round tables,

01:14:18   like him and Gruber and a couple other people.

01:14:22   So I've read all of them, right,

01:14:23   'cause I'm gonna read all of them.

01:14:26   And in Panzorino's there was, I love Matt's writing

01:14:30   'cause he does all these little details.

01:14:32   And it was like, oh, in the lobby of this building

01:14:34   there was a display case with a bunch of old Macs in it.

01:14:36   It was like, sign me up.

01:14:38   And so I'm reading through this,

01:14:39   so I'm comparing my collection to their collection.

01:14:42   - Got it, as you do. - Got it.

01:14:44   - Yeah. - Need, got.

01:14:47   - And he had a funny thing in there

01:14:49   that is like the 20th anniversary iMac.

01:14:51   He's like, well, that's not a computer.

01:14:53   Like the 20th anniversary Mac is.

01:14:55   And so I DMD him, I said, hey,

01:14:57   I'm the only person on the,

01:14:58   literally the only person on the planet

01:14:59   who cares about this, but you have a typo here.

01:15:02   and he fixed it and so really, when the Mac Pro shows up,

01:15:05   it's because of me.

01:15:07   - That is a real tenuous link

01:15:09   that you have drawn there, my friend.

01:15:10   I don't think that's got anything to do with anything.

01:15:12   - We're talking about things that make us happy, Myke.

01:15:14   - Okay, then yes, it's all because of you.

01:15:17   Whatever brings the Mac Pro here, we'll take it.

01:15:18   - Whatever, like who do we have to sacrifice?

01:15:21   (audience laughing)

01:15:25   I love you, buddy.

01:15:25   - I will buy one probably.

01:15:27   I think I'm gonna be the one that ends up buying one.

01:15:29   - I think so too, 'cause you want it for--

01:15:31   - Ever.

01:15:31   (audience laughing)

01:15:33   - You want something you can upgrade, you can do VR on.

01:15:35   - Yeah, yeah, like not another VR.

01:15:37   I have an incredible gaming PC.

01:15:38   I don't need to mess around with this Mac stuff.

01:15:40   - It has LEDs in it, so it's cool.

01:15:41   - My gaming PC is incredible. - Lots of LEDs.

01:15:43   - Everyone that's seen it, including these two,

01:15:45   absolutely love it.

01:15:46   - Yeah, so I want to build one, I just don't want to own one.

01:15:48   - Yeah, right? (audience laughing)

01:15:50   Building is most of the fun.

01:15:51   - It's so good, I love it.

01:15:52   Then you get to the Windows part and it gets a lot less fun.

01:15:55   - Yeah, you can just pay little attention to it.

01:15:58   I deal with Windows as little as possible,

01:16:00   But like I do have these funny things.

01:16:02   I have like an audio box called the Tascam,

01:16:06   which on the Mac you just plug it in and it's fine.

01:16:08   On Windows you plug it in and it's like all these pieces

01:16:10   of software load every single time and do nothing.

01:16:13   Like it's just like confirming that it's on.

01:16:16   And it loads every single time.

01:16:19   And then one time I upgraded Windows

01:16:21   and then it stopped working.

01:16:23   So I had to downgrade the driver by two versions

01:16:26   and then it works again.

01:16:28   And then sometimes it just doesn't work

01:16:31   and I have to unplug it and plug it back in again

01:16:33   and it works again.

01:16:34   Like this is what it's like.

01:16:36   Deliver a Windows machine.

01:16:37   - This has been a solved problem

01:16:38   with like standard HID audio drivers for USB devices.

01:16:42   - Yeah, right to build.

01:16:43   - Since before I bet someone here was born.

01:16:45   Like if there's anyone here who's like 20 or younger,

01:16:47   chances are this problem has been solved

01:16:50   before you were born.

01:16:51   Yeah.

01:16:52   - But they just don't care.

01:16:53   Like drivers, man, it's the way of the past.

01:16:56   So I would like to pick for my final pick,

01:17:00   there's a theme, there's a consistent theme

01:17:01   running through all of mine,

01:17:02   and the end is I want a laptop style iPad keyboard cover.

01:17:07   - How is this different from wanting a track pad?

01:17:09   - It will have a track pad in it.

01:17:11   - This is not three different products.

01:17:13   (audience laughing)

01:17:16   - There is a difference, there is a difference.

01:17:21   So I, with my 12.9 inch iPad Pro,

01:17:24   I am a very, very happy user of the Brydge keyboard.

01:17:28   It is wonderful.

01:17:30   It is just the bottom of a MacBook, basically.

01:17:32   - You got one that works?

01:17:33   - It works now.

01:17:34   So I would say the first edition,

01:17:35   like the first version of it, was garbage.

01:17:38   It never worked, just didn't work.

01:17:40   Second version, I have it, it's perfect.

01:17:41   I know a few other people that have it,

01:17:43   like they fixed the problems they were having with Bluetooth.

01:17:45   They had some Bluetooth issues.

01:17:47   But basically this thing,

01:17:48   it's basically the bottom of a laptop

01:17:51   with this really cool little hinge system.

01:17:53   You put the iPad in it, you can open and close it,

01:17:55   it is adjustable, I love it.

01:17:56   But I want Apple to make one of these for a few reasons.

01:17:59   I want them, well one, good keyboard, right?

01:18:03   Let's hope, let's see, good timeline,

01:18:04   they're making a good keyboard, right?

01:18:06   Like we're just assuming this has got a good keyboard.

01:18:07   - Yeah, this is a heavy meter.

01:18:08   - Yeah, it's good keyboard.

01:18:10   Backlit keys, I would love backlit keys.

01:18:12   The Brydge has backlit keys,

01:18:13   but it has a battery and the battery dies.

01:18:16   I want this thing that Apple makes

01:18:18   to be a smart connector product, so there's no charging.

01:18:22   So it has backlit keys, which does exist.

01:18:24   Logitech make a keyboard,

01:18:26   which is powered by the smart connector, which is rubbish,

01:18:29   but it has backlit keys, so it's possible to do it.

01:18:32   But we're assuming that the smart connector

01:18:34   is gonna be better,

01:18:35   and that's what that thing is on the back.

01:18:36   Maybe, probably, we'll see.

01:18:38   So no charging, 'cause I don't wanna charge it.

01:18:40   I hate having to charge it, it's annoying.

01:18:41   Like it's a keyboard, I don't wanna charge it.

01:18:43   But I like the adjustable hinge,

01:18:46   because then I can kind of sit in any position.

01:18:48   It's like a laptop,

01:18:49   because the problem with the smart keyboard is it is in one way.

01:18:52   Like that's all it is. It's just this one way.

01:18:54   And it's not very easy on the lap and stuff like that.

01:18:57   It's just not very comfortable.

01:18:58   So I would love to see what Apple could do to make basically the iPad be a laptop.

01:19:04   You put a trackpad on it, has wonderful keys, smart connector, the whole deal.

01:19:09   I think it should just go the whole way.

01:19:10   It's the best way to use an iPad.

01:19:12   Go for it.

01:19:13   What if...

01:19:14   So in the old ThinkPads, you had what was called the ThinkLite.

01:19:18   So it wasn't a backlit key

01:19:20   It was a little light at the top of the display

01:19:24   I don't want that and it would shine down on the keyboard

01:19:28   That's awesome. But the problem is if you need to see the spacebar you had to close your laptop a little bit like move the

01:19:33   light

01:19:34   So maybe they did that on the iPad maybe you know that magnetic connectors pretty hot

01:19:38   High up on the back. It's to clip on the light

01:19:41   man

01:19:43   The hardware, the weirdness of the ThinkPad, there were so many strange things that these things did.

01:19:51   If Apple only made software, like the little red nubbin thing, if Apple only made software and I could run Mac OS on anything,

01:19:58   I would put it on a ThinkPad. Oh, yeah. 100%.

01:20:00   Casey's dying right now not being able to be in this episode.

01:20:03   Yep. I know. Okay, so we'll do a ThinkPad episode and you have him on.

01:20:07   Backlight, I mean backlight would be awesome.

01:20:09   I know I like talking on the show a big game,

01:20:11   but I use my iPad a lot.

01:20:12   And I use it a lot in particular,

01:20:15   I don't like bringing my laptop in for my studio,

01:20:17   'cause then it means I've brought work into the house.

01:20:20   But if I have to do a little show prep

01:20:22   or do some email on the evening--

01:20:23   - 'Cause you can't get work done?

01:20:24   - No, real work is done on the iPad.

01:20:26   - But what kills me, honestly,

01:20:27   'cause I'll do it in the evening,

01:20:29   maybe we're watching TV,

01:20:30   or maybe even my wife's gone to bed

01:20:32   and I'm gonna stay up for a little bit,

01:20:33   the backlit keyboard, it's kind of a deal breaker,

01:20:36   because I'm not a great touch typist,

01:20:38   I can kind of get by.

01:20:39   but I feel imprecise without it.

01:20:42   It would be great.

01:20:43   And like you said, the Logitech One has proved

01:20:45   that it's possible.

01:20:47   And I really, there's a whole 'nother conversation here

01:20:50   about the smart connector and making it more useful

01:20:54   and more robust.

01:20:56   And part of that would be like,

01:20:57   maybe the back of the thing is power

01:20:59   and Logitech figured it out, but it'd be great.

01:21:02   - There is this kind of, I think, a weird perception

01:21:05   amongst like the wider tech press

01:21:07   that the stuff from Microsoft and Google are more,

01:21:11   you can do better work on them

01:21:14   because they have better keyboards,

01:21:16   which doesn't make any sense.

01:21:17   The iPad is so much better than these things.

01:21:20   It's just, me and Federico got really upset

01:21:23   about this a couple of weeks ago.

01:21:24   I don't want to get into it again.

01:21:25   But the smart keyboard does a great job.

01:21:28   - It's a good keyboard.

01:21:29   - It does a great job.

01:21:30   And I love that it's so portable.

01:21:32   One of the bad things about the bridge is

01:21:34   the 12.9 is already big and heavy.

01:21:36   that makes it a lot bigger and a lot heavier.

01:21:38   Like, and that is the downside of this stuff.

01:21:40   So honestly, like, if Apple do make something like this,

01:21:43   which I would love,

01:21:44   I still want the smart keyboard to exist as well.

01:21:46   Like, I think that both products would be really great.

01:21:48   - Like a smart keyboard and a smart keyboard Pro.

01:21:50   - Yeah, something like that, right?

01:21:51   But like, there's one that is like this

01:21:54   just to cover on the case,

01:21:55   'cause really, probably the best way for Apple to do it

01:21:58   is like, it would have to be pretty significant

01:22:00   on the back as well as the front

01:22:01   to allow for some kind of hinge to be really,

01:22:04   to be really heavy. - Yeah, and it would be

01:22:05   heavy and it would be heavy it makes the iPad the thickness and heaviness of a

01:22:10   laptop and that comes with some great stuff it comes in some not great stuff

01:22:14   so I would love to have choices I would love to have choices right like that is

01:22:19   like I would love Apple to provide me with choices because this is a wonderful

01:22:25   computer that was the promise of the smart connector and just hasn't panned

01:22:28   out yeah yeah well I think we've seen too like there's certain areas where

01:22:31   Apple just can't depend on third parties like certain peripherals certain

01:22:35   types of things, they make a standard and it just falls on the floor to third parties.

01:22:39   Like no one ever does anything with it. Smart Connectors is obviously one of those. I'm

01:22:42   rounding down to zero. I think that's fair. There's been zero things for it basically.

01:22:46   There's nothing of any real use honestly.

01:22:48   Except for Apple's own keyboard. And so like this is an area where like if Apple wants

01:22:53   the useful things to exist in this category, they have to make them themselves.

01:22:58   Maybe they just license Smart Connector dongles. Plug anything into it. Think about it.

01:23:04   I'm really confused now.

01:23:05   Wait, so like, the dongle goes on magnetically

01:23:08   and you can plug what into it?

01:23:09   - Smart to USB?

01:23:10   - Yeah.

01:23:11   - Well, so it would be smart to USB-C

01:23:13   and then you need a second one for USB-C to USB-A.

01:23:15   - Yeah.

01:23:16   - And then you can plug in your keyboard.

01:23:17   - And then your SD card reader is down and down and down.

01:23:21   Yeah, wrapped up in this, if we had another round,

01:23:23   I really think we don't.

01:23:25   We don't.

01:23:26   Let's say if we did a Briont, you're dead, which we're not,

01:23:28   'cause again, we couldn't license the technology.

01:23:29   - It's not a draft.

01:23:30   - Like, a smart connector story matters,

01:23:33   'Cause again, it goes into my theme of like,

01:23:35   the iPad needs to play in the world around it,

01:23:38   and the smart connector just hasn't done that.

01:23:40   - I understand your point. - The dream was right,

01:23:43   like okay, I'm gonna, you know, have like a keyboard,

01:23:47   like a musical, like piano keyboard,

01:23:48   semi-iPad down and play music.

01:23:50   I'm gonna be a DJ, I sit it down in my thing,

01:23:52   I'm gonna be whatever, and it's like,

01:23:55   the iPad becomes like the brain of whatever hardware I have.

01:24:00   Like maybe that was me just being too hopeful.

01:24:02   USB will probably be the thing that does it. I think I understand what you're saying, but I think that the smart connector like

01:24:08   Google's like

01:24:10   Microsoft's all it really needs to do is just be a great connection to the keyboard that the company makes

01:24:15   But is that because that's what it's become or is that because I just don't think it needs to be well

01:24:19   It's because most of the iPads don't have it like most of the iPads that are out in the world that are being sold every

01:24:23   Day or they already are out there don't have this connector

01:24:25   So if you're a hardware maker trying to make like a brand new, you know, like a piano kind of keyboard

01:24:29   are you going to put USB on there or are you going to put Smart Connector on there?

01:24:32   Like, if you put Smart Connector on there, you can only work with this very expensive line

01:24:36   of the select few iPad Pros from the last two years.

01:24:39   Whereas if you just make it USB compatible, you can work with every iPad

01:24:43   and many of the other makers' devices as well.

01:24:46   I guess a new API that allows people to interact with things that are plugged in with USB-C inside of their apps.

01:24:52   So like this keyboard that you want, you just plug it in by USB-C and it works with some app.

01:24:56   That's how it works. That's how piano is played. Some music is made.

01:25:00   Beats me. So is that it?

01:25:02   I think that's it.

01:25:03   Everyone feel like we've expressed our happiness?

01:25:06   Eventually.

01:25:08   We will check in next week, I guess. Until then, if you want to find the show notes, if you want to find what we spoke about, you can find links to all this stuff at relay.fm/connected/215.

01:25:23   It's a big number.

01:25:25   If you want to get in touch, there's an email link there.

01:25:29   Also you can find us on Twitter.

01:25:31   You can find Myke at I-M-Y-K-E.

01:25:34   And Myke is the host of a bunch of shows on Relay FM.

01:25:36   So if you like connected, there's probably something else that you would like to check

01:25:40   out, upgrade, check out these other shows.

01:25:42   You can find me at ISMH and I write 512pixels.net and again host a bunch of shows on Relay FM.

01:25:48   And of course you can find our guest each and every week on the Accidental Tech Podcast

01:25:53   with John Saracusa and Casey Liss.

01:25:55   You can find him also every week on Under the Radar

01:25:57   with David Smith where they talk about

01:26:00   running a small business and being a developer

01:26:02   and something about API sometimes I don't understand.

01:26:05   It's a good show.

01:26:06   - And once a month he eats weird stuff

01:26:08   with Tiffany Arment on top floor.

01:26:10   - That's basically the pitch.

01:26:13   (audience applauds)

01:26:16   And you can find Marco on Twitter, you all know where

01:26:19   because we all are singing the song in our head now.

01:26:23   SI-- no, that's the wrong one.

01:26:24   That's the wrong one.

01:26:25   That's the wrong one.

01:26:26   Yeah, sorry.

01:26:27   So until next time, guys, say goodbye.

01:26:31   Ciao.

01:26:32   No, it's--

01:26:34   You went out of order.

01:26:36   See you later, everyone.

01:26:37   Bye.

01:26:39   Adios.

01:26:40   [APPLAUSE]

01:26:43   [ Applause ]

01:26:45   [ Applause ]

01:26:47   [ Silence ]